Music Saved Me : DMC & Dee Snider The Healing Power of Music -Harry Chapin's "Cat's and The Cradle Legacy-New Documentary

Music Saved Me Episode Description: Dee Snider & Darryl McDaniels on Harry Chapin’s Legacy and the healing power of music.

Join host Lynn Hoffman for an unforgettable episode of Music Saved Me as rock icon Dee Snider (Twisted Sister) and hip-hop legend Darryl “DMC” McDaniels (Run-DMC) come together to discuss the powerful new Harry Chapin documentary and the enduring impact of the legendary singer-songwriter’s music.

In this compelling conversation, Dee Snider and DMC explore how Harry Chapin’s storytelling genius and socially conscious songwriting influenced generations of musicians across all genres. The discussion centers on Chapin’s most iconic work and his commitment to fighting hunger and social justice through music activism, and the healing power of music.

Discover how Harry Chapin’s narrative-driven songs shaped the careers of two musicians from completely different musical worlds—from heavy metal to hip-hop. Dee Snider shares insights on Chapin’s influence on rock storytelling, while Darryl McDaniels reveals unexpected connections between Chapin’s folk-rock legacy and hip-hop’s storytelling tradition.

This episode examines Harry Chapin’s philanthropic work, his unprecedented dedication to humanitarian causes and healing , and how his music continues to inspire artists to use their platforms for social change. Learn about Chapin’s lasting legacy in the music industry and why his work remains relevant to contemporary musicians and fans alike.

Topics covered:

• Harry Chapin documentary insights and behind-the-scenes stories

• The intersection of music and activism in Harry Chapin’s career

• How folk-rock storytelling influenced heavy metal and hip-hop

• Music as a tool for social justice and humanitarian work

• The enduring healing power of narrative songwriting across musical genres

• Personal stories of how Harry Chapin’s music saved lives and inspired careers

Perfect for fans of classic rock, hip-hop history, folk music, music documentaries, and anyone interested in how music can change the world. This episode celebrates Harry Chapin’s timeless contributions to American music and social activism and the healing power of music.

#MusicSavedMe #HarryChapin #DeeSnider #DMC #DarrylMcDaniels #TwistedSister #RunDMC #MusicDocumentary #MusicActivism #Storytelling #ClassicRock #HipHopLegends #FolkRock #MusicPodcast #LynnHoffman #healing power of music

Support the show: https://takinawalk.com/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Music Saved Me.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Welcome to a very special edition of the Music Save
Me podcast where we dig into the songs and artists
that didn't just play in the background.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
They pulled us out of the dark.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Lyn Hoffman and speaking of special podcasts, you know,
from time to time we like to turn you on
to new podcasts what we think you might like. Buzznight
Media just launched a brand new one called Taking a
Walk Nashville, which is a spin off of his popular
original Taken a Walk podcast that Buzz hosts, where Nashville
based country artist and storytellers Sarah Harrelson interview some of

(00:32):
the biggest names and up and coming artists in Nashville.
So you can hear that wherever you get your podcasts.
And we're so excited to welcome her to the family.
I'm the cats, all right, I'm so stoked right now?

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Can you tell?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
On this very special episode of Music Saved Me, we
are celebrating fifty years since folk artist and humanitarian Harry
Chapin dropped a quiet bomb in a song called Cat's
in the Cradle Just Like Me. And this song wasn't
a party anthem, it was a mirror and for the
millions to this day, including the two legends joining me

(01:09):
right now. It was a lifeline, fresh off starring in
a sweet new documentary called Kats in the Cradle, The
Song That Changed Our Lives, streaming right now on Amazon Prime.
I'm so excited to welcome my two special guests today
who I hounded incessantly on text to join me to
talk about this. D Snyder, the unfiltered voice behind the

(01:31):
glam rock band Twisted Sister, and Darryl dmc McDaniels, hip
hop pioneer and Run DMC co founder. Gentlemen, Welcome to
Music Save Me, and thank you so much for coming
on today.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Thanks for having us. This is so good.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
Yeah, great to be here. You got two d's.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
D's my hair, double d's.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
It's the double Now.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
The funny thing is is that when I watched this documentary,
I saw and heard for the first time that d
didn't really like folk music at all. In fact, I
think you used the word I hated folk music and
DMC yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
Hate Acoup sigatore and I hate folk music.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yes, yes, so you two are the last people that
I would have expected to pop up.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Because I loved it.

Speaker 4 (02:15):
He hates it you like you like that ship?

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah, I mean you understand when when I when I
was first hearing folk music, it was on the radio,
you know. But the reason why I liked it because
it was storytelling. So it wasn't like it was a
genre to me because I was a little kid. All
I did was read comic books. The folk music. The
reason why I liked that it was the stories that

(02:40):
was relatable. It was kind of like you know, bedtime stories, lallapies,
all the stuff that I was learning, you know, in
elementary school. So it was kind of a connection there.
It was, you know, a Jim Croachy bag, that Leroy
Brown bad. This man in a whole damn town than.

Speaker 5 (03:03):
Even I'm not judging. You know, people get very upset
why I say things like I hate golf.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
But I say I.

Speaker 5 (03:11):
Hate golf, and people are like, dude, is that affecting golfing?
And I hate thee Dead.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
They had a wonderful career. They don't need me. I
have to like everything you like.

Speaker 5 (03:23):
So you like rapel Dead, great, you like golf, you
like folk music, that's fabulous. I like aggressive music, you know,
And that's why I like hip hop too, because it's
got an edge.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
It's in your face.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
It demands your attention in a different way.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
This, by the way, this is why I brought you
two together, because we got to take a quick break.
You two have to sort this out and then we're
gonna come right back and get into it with d
Snyder and Darryl McDaniel's next on Music Save Me, Don't
Go Anywhere, Music Saved Me and dmc it was a

(04:02):
little over I want to say twenty years ago, maybe
twenty two years ago since you the three of us
first met on the set of VH one Classics very
Special Thanksgiving taping along with Debbie Gibson and Gloria Gator.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
We had turkey, all the trimmings.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
We talked about music and things we were grateful for,
and it's all come full circle because we're back together again,
the three of us right around the same time of year, Thanksgiving,
and we're talking about music and things were grateful for
on a very special music safety pot.

Speaker 5 (04:31):
I was grateful to have you guys on that horrible
show with me because that very schedule Thanksgiving. You remember,
they had like some wine connoisseur who was explaining every
pairing wines. Oh yeah, no, and you were saying it's
okay to rock a wine. Yeah yeah, and you know,
but it was. It was awful experience except meeting you, Daryl,

(04:53):
and you and and Debbie.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
And I have become friends as well.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
That's so co Yeah, yeah, that's so awesome.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
I you know, and I really you two have really
been the two that I've kept We've kept in.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Touch over the years.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Of course, you know you are the most real, genuine
people I've met.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
That's the thing to get us together.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
We had more work today, we have.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
More things to do.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Well, we're going to talk today about a song that
is super powerful. And you both have been on Music
Saved Me before as guests, so you know the stories
about people being saved by music and artists also, uh
And basically this song I think has to be maybe
the most powerful song of all, especially if it moved
the two of you, and the story and message not

(05:40):
just to men both young and old, pretty much everyone
in between is basically life changing. So as soon as
I saw the two of you on screen in the
documentary that I was watching, I knew I had to
reach out and have you come on and discussed this
song further with me. And what it means to you.
And also I wanted to say that talking about emotions
and emotional stuff deep things not typically something that men,

(06:03):
especially not two heavy hitters like yourself, rock and roll,
heavy metal, hip hop. As a rule, it sort of
leads itself to more of like a badass, silent toughness.
So allowing us all to access your vulnerable side and
being so public about it, it's not only generous, but
it's extremely powerful. And I know you too, you too
always want to use your power for this, even though

(06:26):
it doesn't matter.

Speaker 4 (06:27):
I definitely what you play on stage now. I don't
know about you, Matt.

Speaker 5 (06:30):
I definitely feel I've gotten more vulnerable and touch with
my emotional side in my older age. And it's not
about age. I think it's about wisdom and experience.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
You know.

Speaker 5 (06:44):
I used a kid that I had my tier ducks
removed in the eighties, but somehow they're reattached.

Speaker 4 (06:49):
Because you know, if I'm watching movies now.

Speaker 6 (06:52):
Like.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
Cry is just crying to Cabrini, the movie about Mother Cabrini. Yeah,
I know, so I was just like sitting there crying
because she went through a whole lot of.

Speaker 5 (07:04):
Oh my goodness, Yeah, so definitely got emotional as I've
gotten moral, gotten older for sure.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
Wow you think maybe that was kids having kids?

Speaker 3 (07:13):
You know? Yeah, No, I I guess I think it's because,
like they said, it's experience, like it was always there
for us, but we never had a situation or an
outlet present it because we are too busy doing these
other things. You know. I think if it would approach
us back then, we would have spoken back then and

(07:34):
it would have been a game changer back then, But
it wasn't time for like D said, it's not about age.
It was just about I mean experience, you know.

Speaker 5 (07:43):
But you know, Catching the Cradle is a really good example,
you know about a song that with time becomes being
more and more to you. When I was a kid,
and I would tune in and hear that song and
Harry's from Long Island, where yes, who us are from.
So the poor guy was killed on the four nineties,

(08:04):
the Lie five, he got hit by truck, such a
dangerous road. But hearing the song, it meant something to
me about me and my dad. And then as time
went on, it sarady means something to me about me
and my son, you know.

Speaker 4 (08:20):
And let me.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Get into that with you.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
In the doc, you said hearing this song d my dad,
being a new dad for the first time you had
a kid, gave you a full on panic attack.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
Can you please explain and walk us.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Through that moment.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
What specifically was it about the song that hit you
and gave you a panic attack?

Speaker 4 (08:40):
I was Daryl's gonna get this.

Speaker 5 (08:43):
I was gone the first nine months of my son's life,
nine months of the first twelve he was on this earth.

Speaker 4 (08:51):
I was non existent.

Speaker 5 (08:53):
He watched me on MTV and she said, would go,
there's daddy, there's daddy, you know. And when I came home,
he just looked at me like I was an alien.

Speaker 3 (09:03):
Who were you?

Speaker 4 (09:04):
Oh yeah, like who's this guy? Or he?

Speaker 5 (09:06):
You know, because I'm much bigger than I was on TV.
But so, you know, so really he just realized, damn it,
I just did exactly what Harry was warning me about exactly.
But you know, this is a life we chose, you know,
and and that's what the kids. But the kids don't
understand that You're just you're doing the job. You're trying
to take care of them. And you know, have you

(09:28):
had one of you of your way your first kid?
How were you he was in ninety four.

Speaker 4 (09:35):
I was never home. I was eighty two.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yeah, so my first but well, my first and only
son was ninety four, and we was always going. Here's
a true story. So, like I said, I was always
on the road, right, But there would be some weeks
when my wife would drive with him to drop me
at the airport and take him to school. So my
wife goes to pick him up for preschool. This says
when he's like four years old, right. So the teacher

(10:01):
says to my wife when she's picking him up, Oh,
miss Daniels, I didn't know your husband was a pilot
and my wife growing be a pilot. Oh well, decent.
We had career day, and what the farmer is doing? Decent?
Said Tynan's father was a pilot, and they just cried,
Our Africa's kids are so smart. All my son knew
was my mother always drops me where the planes is at.

(10:24):
So Hot's father must be a fight wow wow. And
then I had to I had to tell him, no,
I perform and I do shows. So I take the
plane to where I go. And we used to always
walk through the mall when he was four and five
years old, and he used to his whole day was daddy.

(10:45):
You know a lot of people Daddy, you know Doddy,
but now here as he got old, he put, oh,
they know you because of the music and videos, so
you know, saying he was he was knowing me through
other outlets.

Speaker 4 (10:58):
Saddy, do they fly on your plane with you?

Speaker 3 (11:00):
Yeah? Yeah, it was just so cute. But the teachers
all of don't start to laugh because my son was
so funny. He just put it to the OTHERNT. But
that must be the pilot cutest thing ever.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Well you did, d DMC.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
You said that that this song Cats in the Cradle
was like a therapy session on wax. Can we can
we just unpack that first second? Yeah, you said that
it hit you hard when you first heard this song, right,
and what was the first What was it like the
first time you heard it?

Speaker 3 (11:29):
Was? It was probably when it first came out on
seventy seven w ABC. And it was just shocking because
I had the best parents in the world, and I
couldn't believe that this man didn't get like my parents.
Like all my run DMC rec because I round about
son of Byefoot, brother of al Man. It's my mother

(11:51):
runs my ow. It's McDaniels. Not McDonald's these rhyms or
Darrel's those burgers are Ronald's. I ran down my family tree.
My mother fa them a brother and me like I
was so busy robbing about Christmas time in hollans Queens.
Its was my family. So when I first heard directed,
I couldn't believe that people actually could let that happen.

(12:13):
And I was thinking about this poor little kid, and
then it hurt. But Harry, this song is such a
part of my life because I heard it growing up
and it was just shocking because I had the best
parents ever.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
That's why around about them.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
But in nineteen eighty one, uh, the greatest hip hop
group ever, the Coke Crush four MC's the Coke Hush
Brothers out of the Bronx at the infamous one of
their most famous battles in hip hop history. At this
club call Harlem Worth, the Coke Crush four was battling
a Fantastic five and they did get a rhyme routine

(12:51):
using the melody of Harry Chapin's Cats in the Cradle,
and instead of going Cat's in the Cradle in a
silver spoon, they said the issues of my name of GMC.
You can search all your life, but you'll never see
a higher powered body rocket in the galaxy. I'm the
first and ever last. I'm the grand Master Cat's well hell,

(13:12):
So I did these initials ROP So when I got
in a hip hop, I remembered, oh, that's the song
that I used to on the radio, and they did
the initial So I changed my name the DMC because
of what the cole Chris Ford did with the Hairy
Shapin record that I heard growing up all the time.
So then you fast forward to when I'm thirty five
years old, I find out that I'm adopted, which ricked

(13:35):
my whole world, and after rehabing therapy, it gave me
a purpose. But then when I was when I was
thinking or killing myself in suicidal, I said, before I go,
I want to do one last thing for the world.
So I wanted to do a remake of Avery Chapis
Ats in a Cradle, but I wanted to flip it

(13:56):
and put the story of my parents in it. So
I did a remake of Harry Chapin's Cats in the
Cradle but about parents that gave the kid all a
good time. And then I did it with Sarah McLachlan
shout out to Sarah McLoughlin singing the Harry chapin parts.
And then I go to Vancouver to record with Sarah

(14:17):
and she didn't tell me this till after we recorded that. Odd,
there's something I need to tell you, and I go
what she says, I was adopted too, and I didn't
know that. So just the whole family, you know, the
record being about whatever. But here's a kick it though.
In order for me to do the remake, it's a
song called just Like Me. I did it with Sarah

(14:38):
and I had to go to Long Island, d to
speak to Sandy, Harry's wife to get permission to do it.
And she she, she explained to me, yes, yes, she revealed.

Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yes to me.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
So since I was a kid, when I first got
in a hip hop, Harry's song was there. And when
I started going to my own personal family identity face,
that song has been a literal theme song of my life. Movie.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Wow, that's just it's amazing to amazing, amazing to me
how it all connects even through the decades. D You
had mentioned up front too, something about this song made
you think about your own relationship with your dad, who
I know is a police officer, and you kind of
had a little bit of a tug and pull. And
I've read your autobiography, so I know there were some

(15:32):
of those things in there. How did that song, as
well as Harry's personal story and journey with his families,
become your sort of do not repeat blueprint?

Speaker 4 (15:41):
Well, I don't know what I said on that documentary.

Speaker 5 (15:44):
I think I love when I first got there and said,
I do not know why you're interviewing me.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
I don't know what I have.

Speaker 4 (15:50):
To say about this.

Speaker 5 (15:51):
It turned out I had a lot to say about
it when I said thinking about it. But honestly, my dad,
my dad was a cop, and he was you know
when he was a hard ass, a Korean War vet.
He's still with us ninety five years old. I when
I used to hear about this father who was never
with the kid, I say, man, I wish my dad
was around less, because who was just just just I

(16:13):
just couldn't stand to be around him. So I didn't
have that problem my father. He was present too damn much.
He came to realize as the years went by and
I became a father, and see what it takes to
be come home to work those two three jobs like
he did. We had six kids in our family, and
you know, and show up and be there. Even though

(16:35):
he was yelling at you and punishing you. It seemed
like all the time, you know, but he's but he
was present in my life making sure that he was
president in my life. Or I only recently found out.
And this his post doing that documentary as I really
after some therapy. Here we go, Darrell, and we all

(16:55):
have that common people highly recommend it. I realized it
was his intense love for me, and intense and and
the fact that he was my.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
Hero, this cop, this this sergeant in the Korean War.

Speaker 5 (17:10):
He was my hero, and the fact that he was
my hero was punishing me and and and and disciplining me.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
It really hurt me.

Speaker 5 (17:19):
And it turned that insane love I had for him
because I couldn't understand why this my hero was being
so mean to me. And I realized that I did
the same thing to my own eldest son. He saw
me an MTV when I'm dar I'm saying this to you, Lynn,
You and me, we've we've done radio together, we've hung together.

(17:40):
I'm not cutting you out here, but this is a
new conversation. I'm not fac Glynn. I don't know what
you're over here on my screen. By the way, I
don't know what we've what we've talked about, we've talked
about so much.

Speaker 4 (17:50):
And you know, together.

Speaker 5 (17:51):
But but I realized that my son when I came
home from the road, he asked me for an autograph
picture of me, and I said, yeah, sure, and I
signed I Love you Jesse Dad and looked at it
and I.

Speaker 4 (18:06):
Could see he was disappointed that it didn't say d
Snyder on it. You get me, you get me. He
knew D Snyder. You didn't want Dad's autography.

Speaker 5 (18:16):
He wanted to do And that's how those first years
I was not present except as this thing.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
On a post on TV being on TV, you know.

Speaker 5 (18:27):
And so it made me realize, here my dad.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
Was actually there, you know, my hero was actually there.

Speaker 5 (18:36):
So you know, this isn't about Catack creata, but this
is just realizing as life goes on.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
You know, you think you know it all.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah, it was crazy about Harry's song. The very thing
the father was doing to the son. The son had
no time for him at the right exactly, That's what
was the craze. That's why that song was so shocking.
It was like a movie.

Speaker 4 (18:58):
How many how many kids you got, Darryl, I just
got one, yea one.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
I had fourth words.

Speaker 5 (19:03):
And that's the only thing I want from them is time,
you know what I mean, Like I'll say, you gotta
get me a gift.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
I always say that.

Speaker 5 (19:11):
Hang out, hang out, and I get they got their
lives man, but we don't see him enough, right.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Right, yeah, And they gotta get you and they gotta
get us the gift because that feels that's them giving
us their time.

Speaker 4 (19:25):
You know, it's so crazy.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
But that whole song, you know, Sandy she was telling
me about Harry was marvelous because he would do one
show plaid and then the next show would go to charity.
He was always doing show, she said. So he would
always make Sandy give these big events for charities and

(19:49):
the mayor and the government. So the song came out
from a family at one of these meetings to where
she said she was meeting with like the the guy
running for assembly or something, you know in Long Island,
and the husband and the wife would have interpretators, but

(20:12):
not because of English language. The husband would say to
his assistance. You tell them and this is to the family,
and they all in the same room that I said this,
and then the wife would tell Harper, well you tell
and it was crazy and the kids was caught in
the middle. She said it was the craziest dick. So
when she first started writing the first bunch of lyrics,

(20:34):
Harry comes off the road. It's early in the morning.
He finds what she wrote and he wakes up in
the friends. He said, are you doing this about me?
Because he was always gone and she was like, no, no, honey,
just it's about the people. You just had me me.
So it even affected Harry when he first saw the
lyrics that he was right because he knew he was

(20:54):
always on the road.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
So and that happened to him too, because remember when
he performed the first time and his dad was in
the audience and he had to leap over the chairs
to tell him, Dad.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
This isn't about you. Anybody who ever heard it like
there was something that she was connected to.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Or or it could have been the kid in the dock.
I don't know if you saw this. As young child actor,
he was on the Mike Douglas Show.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Douglas was great and he said this.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Was in the documentary though that you two were on,
and he said, I just don't want to talk. I
don't want to talk about Cats in the Cradle. I
don't want to talk to this kid on the on
the show. And he saw the cards on the show
before when they went to break and when he saw
Cats in the Cradle was going to come up on
the show, he started profusely crying, unconsolable, and Mike Douglas

(21:49):
was like, well, what is it about this song? And
he said, it's nothing bad that happened to me. I
had the greatest life. I had the greatest family, the
greatest parents. But just something about that song makes me cry.
And I have to say I never had any issues
except when I heard that song. I got so emotional
because you can connect it to it could be for
a parent just wanting to you know, have I gotten

(22:11):
to the point where I want to retire? I only
have How many years do I have left? How can
I enjoy this with my grandkids and my kids?

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Life goes so fast. We're here for such a short
amount of time.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Even with just so on for Meido, When I first
heard it, though, I thought the beat was dope to
drum like you know, to most of our stipp BELI
even though it was folk music. You know, we sampled,
I mean we stole. I mean we sampled a lot
of certain music. But that the rhythm of it was
kind of really cool. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
You're d D's biting his finger over.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
It was like, even if you have no family issues,
the vibration of that soul brings about emotions and that's
what music does. That's what music does.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
D Twist's sister was all about bellion and giving the
middle finger to authority.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yes, but this song forresd introspection, which is really just
for the average person looking inward? Am I the problem?
Is there something I'm not doing? That's not an easy
thing to do, especially when you're young. Was there ever
a moment while you were on tour where you I
can say this to both of you, when you both
had to choose between the rock star life and being

(23:23):
present for your family. Was there ever at any time
like that?

Speaker 3 (23:27):
You know?

Speaker 5 (23:28):
I was had Jesse. We had Jesse in eighty two
and the band broke eighty three. I was over living
in England. We had a deal over in England recording
and touring. At eighty four, Stay Hungry came out and
the world opened up for us, and that was I
was gone. I was gone. And my wife, you know,

(23:50):
you say, oh you whyted you to bring him on
the road. Let me get to another subject of me
being a miserable bastard on the road. I was just
mad at the world, not at my wife and my kid,
but you know, I was just just perpetually angry at everything.
I just sat in my room and just fumed and
then went out and screamed the.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
People in the state.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
You know.

Speaker 4 (24:09):
I was always in a rage.

Speaker 5 (24:11):
And Suzanne would just say, you know what, you're terrible
to hang around with us, you know, you know, wait
till you come home, and I get it, you know,
because I was so preoccupied with trying to to just
make the success last and keep going. But it was,
you know, it was certainly I'd made adjustments. I remember,

(24:33):
here's a big one. Okay. I was very midtime. I'll aware,
I have a son. So I was on tour, the
height of things going crazy, and my son got sick
and nothing crazy, and then he got bronchitis.

Speaker 4 (24:48):
And then my wife calls him they're putting him in
the hospital.

Speaker 5 (24:52):
And I remember hearing that Robert Plant's son, the same
thing happened. Robert Plant's son, Robert Plant was on tour
and his son got a cold, son got really ill.
Son went to the hospital. His son died while he
was on tour. And I just said, that is not
going to be me. And I just I pulled up

(25:14):
the guys around in California. I said, I have got
to go home. I cannot. In three days, he's gone
from always got a cold too. He's in the hospital,
you know, and uh with an IV and I flew home,
got through in time, and as as Daryl knows, kids.

Speaker 4 (25:32):
They recuperating my dash.

Speaker 5 (25:33):
And but maybe it was part of dad walking in,
you know, and and to the hospital and you know,
and just maybe that would help whatever it was.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
I just didn't want my song to wind up.

Speaker 5 (25:45):
And I love Robert rock playing, and you know, I'm
not no casting as persians.

Speaker 4 (25:50):
You know. He figured he's going to be okay. He
just said, the kid's got a cold. He said fine.

Speaker 5 (25:55):
I'd not want to take any chance that I would
be a lasting memory that my son died.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
While I was out there on tour.

Speaker 5 (26:02):
So I got home as fast as good and stage
leader got better.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
That was a step up moment, yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
DMC similar similar question, but the Swagger Revolution that was
run DMC.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
But this song just cracked you open.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
So because the song had an impact because at the time,
at the time, the song reserved it three times when
I was little, but hip hop first baget and it
was a president. Now I'm going to my you know,
my alcoholics suicide of metaphysical spiritual wreck who just found

(26:39):
out he was adopted at age thirty five, jam Master
Jay gets shot and killed and then my father dies
of cancer, so you could imagine where I was at.
And then you know, I'm drinking Jack Daniel, Jack Daniel's,
Jim Beam and Johnny Walker. Jack, Johnny and Jim become
my best friends. In prior me starting to drink and

(27:01):
get pride of me finding out that I was adopted,
I had a cute pancreatitis. So then when I find
out that I was adopted, I'm drinking myself to death.
And I always remember my wife telling me, motherfucker, you
got a son now. And I still didn't stop hanging
with Jack, Jim and Johnny even though I had a son,

(27:24):
and then it got to the point where my wife said,
you are a suicidal You are killing yourself. You don't
gotta shoot you yourself. You don't got to put your
foot on the third rail. You don't gotta drink the poison.
You're fucking drinking and you have pancreatitis. So subconsciously I
was committing suicide. And then my wife was like, what
are you gonna What are we gonna do if you

(27:44):
leave us? And I was like, oh, so that revelation
and the song's playing. I'm trying to find Sarah mclockin.
But it was that revelation saying, oh, oh shit, I
don't want to end up letting him grow up without
his dad, So Harry it was always irrelevant theme song

(28:05):
in My Life movie. That was the moment that I said,
you know what, I gotta go to rehab because I
was a functional drunk, like I was never late. I
was just drunk all the time, and I'm drinking but
I'm not supposed to be drinking. I'm drinking thinking. I'm
celebrating the newfound found part of my identity. I'm GMC
from run DMC. Yes Byford and Banner is my mother father,

(28:28):
Alpha is my brother. But now that I'm finding out
to adopt it, that's a missing piece to my identity
that I didn't know. I'm celebrating. And my wife was like,
motherfucker again, motherfucker. She had a lot of motherfuckers. Motherfucking.
I was just drinking because you can't handle the fact
that your parents didn't tell you was adopted. All the time.
So the record's playing, I'm going to rehab, I get out,

(28:50):
you know, Maracca see my pancreas heels, no liver problems.
And then I go, I gotta do something the same way.
I've got to do something with music, the same way
Sarah Mclockery made the Angels song Yeah yeah, yeah in
Save my Life, I'm gonna use the Harry Chapins song
that had. Like what I'm trying to say is I've
heard the record as a kid, and this is the

(29:13):
universe saying this is gonna for this is for a reason.
I'm a fully grown man at age thirty five.

Speaker 5 (29:19):
As I'm saying, with the years, it just takes on it.
It's like that old Bill Cosby child Family special. I'm
not gonna I ain't talking bad about Bill as funny.
It's funny, and he's to had that thing about kids
and stuff, and you could just keep watching it and
identify it as I used one five that song change
the meaning change as the years go by, and you know,

(29:40):
and respected your life amazing.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
The song definitely wasn't nostalgia. It was like a.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Literal warning on like myriad levels and the message that
basically you can change the course of your life for
the better and to be more positive and help all
those lives by being more present with the people that
matter most.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah, and little things, yes, yeah, And it's the little things.
It's not money because see you know the record says
there's plans to catch and builds the pay that's a
big statement because of course that's necessity. We gotta eat
and it's neck. But at the end of the day,
that none of that means nothing if you don't have
that simple little connect, you know what I'm saying. Playing

(30:22):
Catching the Boy like the song is an eye opener,
and it's also a great anthem for forster kids and
orphans and adopted kids. Some kids might not be in
a situation I have a farth at all. So your
little mentorship for your little I'm gonna take you to
the movies, little kid, I'm gonna take you to the museum.

(30:44):
You know, anything that you can do for a kid
that is not even yours, that doesn't have a father,
it can make your son shoot, I'm gonna go at
all off.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Not no, But clearly you're right.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
And the ripple effect from the song is still so
strong and remains even fifty years later. I can't even
believe that we're still talking about I wonder if Harry
would even be shocked that it.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
But learn No, I think he knew what he was doing.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
To he did, But I got to say.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
The one thing I did not know is I didn't
know that his wife wrote it.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Yes, And it sort of.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
Makes sense because, like I said, sort of in the beginning,
guys aren't always readily available to get deep into conversation
about personal things and emotion, you know, and emotional things.
So like it makes sense to me now why it
touched so many people because a woman wrote it. Sorry
I mean to take credit, but it really we could

(31:37):
talk and talk.

Speaker 5 (31:38):
Because I mean, she's observing it, but she has another thing,
is she's on the outside observing that couple's using and
you know interpreter to speak to each other. She was
the observer or so he gave her a much better
view of the situation.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Right about it.

Speaker 5 (31:56):
When you're in the middle of it, very tough to
see it as it's happening. It's only with the pass
of the time that I've stepped back and look at goes.

Speaker 4 (32:04):
Oh, you know, I did exactly what it.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Was exactly, because then you become an exerb But you
get there, and for us, the it's really crazy when
somebody let you do all that you do and then
you at a point where your awareness is a little more,
and then they revealed to you all the stuff that
you did, and you go, yep, I remember, Oh you.

Speaker 4 (32:30):
Met my wife.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Susette is awesome. She's so amazing, the truth.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
Sayer, the dropper of the F bombs for sure.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Oh I think I would.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Well, I already know Susette, but I don't know your
wife personally, d Darryl. But I have to say that
we're probably all three very similar because I have a artist.
For Willie, you guys know, is an artist, but in
a different way. He you know, produces things that people
see visually in here and stuff. But but but but similarly,

(33:01):
he is what's that word prolific? It's it's the amount
of work that comes out of this one person is
like a lot and it means that he has to
lock himself away a lot and miss out on a lot.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
So I can completely relate and the F.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
Bomb, Yes, yes, exactly cost frequently.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
I'm a truck driver. D What these are some rapid
fire questions. What's one line from the song that you
would tattoo on every new parent?

Speaker 4 (33:32):
Well, which do you talk to? I was.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Sorry, uh D Yes, Darren, I'm saying because I got you.

Speaker 5 (33:46):
Yeah, you know what, I'd have to look at the
lyrics to refresh them in my mind.

Speaker 4 (33:51):
I mean, all of it, all of it should be.

Speaker 5 (33:54):
I mean, it's just it's it's insanely powerful beginning to end. Look,
I hate acoustic guitars, I hate folk music.

Speaker 4 (34:04):
Yet I've listened to.

Speaker 5 (34:05):
That whole song many, many times because as the story's unfolding,
even after you know it, it's it's it's And.

Speaker 4 (34:14):
That's part of the deal.

Speaker 5 (34:16):
Is that what the father did to the son, the
son is now doing to the father, and what the
son wanted from his father his time, now the father
wants his son, and neither has the time for either.
It's it is truly an amazing storytelling lyrically amazing top
to bottom.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
So I would sum it up with it to add,
he said that last line the whole song can be
stated in what DJ has said when he says, my boy,
it's just like me, except boy son, it's just like me.
And then he goes on in their cats and what's
what's so? What's so powerful about that? He realizes that,

(35:00):
and then he just says goes back into the chorus
like that's what his life is now summed up in
all the planes and all of that and all of
that he thought it mad at then and now comes
that to him saying, my wife is sick, my daughter's sick. Dad,
I gotta go to work them. I got a meeting.

(35:22):
I'll call you on Thanksgiving. And it's like he realizes that, damn,
if only I would have did this different. And the
other thing is he says, my boy is just like me.
Not only does this boy doesn't have time for him,
his boy is busy with LFE. So you know, my

(35:42):
whole thing is, I just don't want my son to
be as crazy as I was in the eighties. Okay,
I don't want him to be like me. I don't
want to be like me, but exactly, you know, all
the cocaine and all that other stuff. I don't want that.
But if you're not present in their life, that's what

(36:03):
will lead. You know, Like when you look at all
of these rock stars and metal all, you know, anybody
that had a life outside of marines and stuff. When
they come home, when they run their kids, they the
most soft spoken, happy people. Taking the kids to kindergarten
now and going to the recitals. You know, when you
see the big navy seal at the dicks, he's doing

(36:26):
that for a reason because he don't want to end
up like the father.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
In a Harry song.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
So I think now after Harry put that song out,
all the generations afterwards, you started to see a change
in men. Even if you didn't see him soften up,
you see him being more present in the households.

Speaker 4 (36:45):
That is interesting.

Speaker 5 (36:46):
That's that is interesting when because a good observation there,
because you know they're accusing that men have gotten weaker
and softer and become more involved in their kids' lives.
And it certainly Postscatch the Great you can't ask that.

Speaker 6 (37:01):
You know, We'll be right back with more of the
Music Saved Me podcast. Welcome back to the Music Saved
Me Podcast.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Conversing with you d through the years.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
It was one time we had a conversation about how
you felt like you ruined your children because of your
fame and how they all wanted to follow in your footsteps,
and I felt like that was way like I never
heard anyone say that. And then I thought about it
and I was like, well, that could happen.

Speaker 5 (37:32):
Yes, dude, I'm talking about both you dudes. H dude, dude, dude, Now, seriously,
it is well, I mean, now you're getting into crazy stuff.
I mean, you know the shadow we cast, Darryl. You
know my kids, so they're super creatives. My wife's creative.

(37:54):
I'm creative, encouraged this far. But I have been a
presence much longer than I expect to be a present,
whether you know, a presence, and I am just this
thing that won't get out of the way, and I'm
very conscious of it now, trying to step aside, to
let the sun on them, let the sun shine on

(38:15):
them without being filtered to their who their father is.
You know, I want nothing more than people to come
up to me and say, are you Cody Snyder's dad?
Like that to me was like, that's the ultimate dream
is for people ask me if I'm their father not,
you know, not are you the Snider son?

Speaker 3 (38:34):
You know?

Speaker 5 (38:34):
So be careful what you wish for, because you might
get it. And I wanted to be rich and famous.
I wanted to be a rock star. I want to
be a husband and a father. But the two don't
work pumptively together. They do not, and it's a real challenge.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
There's no manuel on how to be a rock star.
There's no manual on how to be a parent. There's
no actual, definitive book.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Of how to do this. It's like, you know, you're
on your own right.

Speaker 5 (39:03):
So well, the one that does exist is written by
people who died at twenty seven, and that's that's want.

Speaker 4 (39:10):
I don't want the dead rock star man.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Well, it's obvious the two of you are in touch
with your sensitive side, your empathy, you have all of
those things.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
Taking it back, No, I'm not sensitive. I'm not crying.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
That's why he always wears glasses.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
Now, I know exactly.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
But you're also very charitable, and I wonder if that's
part of all of the stuff that we're talking about,
is using your the platform not only to bring home
the bacon for the family so you can survive, but
also to give back because you know it's part of
why you're on this show today, but what you to
do charitably on many levels. I know throughout your whole

(39:57):
career it's been very important to you both to give
back and in this documentary, I didn't realize that Harry
believed in using his power so much so that he
wanted to make a world a better place.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
So he gave away half of all of.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
His money, yeah, half of all of his earnings to
fight hunger, which is incredible to me.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
I had no idea work.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Why hunger? You for me in I was like, okay, wow,
that went out to the facility in Long Island and
everything I.

Speaker 5 (40:28):
Did, many motorcycle rides, charity rides for l I kres
Harry's organization, and I'm honored.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
I'm not I'm not ragging.

Speaker 5 (40:38):
It's just a tie into I received the Harry shapein
Ward Humanitarian ward for my chatterable work was given to
me by Sandy Yep and she said, you know why
we picked you and I said, well, yeah, yeah, I
assuming charity says, you're the only rock star that actually

(40:59):
not just Jewish already work organizes. I chair the charity
I've been I did a ride for eighteen years. She said,
people get donate a sign, guitar, they'll do a thing,
but you are one of the few actually runs a
charitable fund, you know, and does something like that. So yeah,
I got the Harry Chapin Wark for my work. Very cool,

(41:22):
very proud of that. Yeah, because Harry is amazing. Lak
a massive food bank. It feeds so many people. And
he started that thing that was a Harry Chapin Foundation, amazing.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
Charity he did, and he found you know, the thing
that really was astounding to me was that he figured
out what caused hunger and what caused disease, and it
was simple poverty.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah, so the rest of his life.

Speaker 4 (41:49):
Add to that.

Speaker 5 (41:50):
Lin that like twenty thirty percent, some crazy number of
people in suburban America need help putting.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
Food on the table.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
You're like, like, like you think suburbia, you think that's
that's an inner city problem or rural problem or other countries.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
No, down your own block.

Speaker 5 (42:10):
Harry recognized the problem and that's why Long Island cares.
Feeding people on Long Island where he grew up, where
he was from, knowing they were hungry kids going there
without food, you know, and needed help. Amazing insight because
we look so far past, we look, Oh, this is
a problem Africa, over the Ukraine, they're suffering. No, right here,

(42:33):
people are struggling too.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
You know. He wanted to feed the He was like
you people wanted to fix everybody here so that we
could go fix everybody there. That's how you're doing and.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
It is oxygen mask on you first, then you can
help everyone else.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
And Jack will give him a plan to follow.

Speaker 4 (42:54):
That's how easy it is. Yes, that's what he was
trying to tell us.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Now, what what is one both of you would bankrupt
yourself for like that? What is one cause you to
believe in so much that you would take half.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
For kids in orphans? Because you know, if I first
I found out that I was adopted and I had
the best parents ever, and I got to meet my
perth mother, So yeah, I got to I did a
search for my birth mother. I grew up in Queen
she was in Staten Island all this time. And the
beautiful thing is that when I got when I met
my birth bather, first thing she says is I know

(43:30):
you're dying to know why I gave you up. And
I was like, shit, lady, that's an understatement. And she
said this word, I gave you up to give you
a chance. And then I looked back at my like
Eminem and Buster Rohm, Saidee, don't you know if your
mother never gave you up for you would have never
been run. Hip hop would have happened. But it was

(43:50):
destiny that you running Jay would spur the moment and
put hip hop in the right way. With integrity and positivity.
He said, the world would be fletely different. So when
my birth mother said that, I was like, Wow, I
found my birth mother in Thanksgiving of oh four and
in Thanksgiving of Old five, I had Thanksgiving with my

(44:11):
birth mother and my document mother in the saying room.

Speaker 5 (44:15):
Crazy, that's amazing, And that is the most unselfish thing
mother could have done.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
Yeah, to give you up to have a better life.
So you know, for me, it's like, you know, it's
like what Harry said, all these people need is opportunity
and access, and you give them an opportunity, especially you know,
the kids, you know, whether they have homeless or in poverty,
you know, whatever they're going through. If you give these
people an opportunity, they don't just do well, they excel.

Speaker 4 (44:46):
But so many people are stereotype.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
Oh homeless. Homeless is just situation. This situation doesn't define
who you are. So we gotta got a meal, We
got a nice space to stay. What is it that
you want to do? I think Benjamin Franklin had said
most people just want opportunity for occupation, and what he

(45:10):
meant by that was, you know, could be a job,
or could be just I want to be a painter.
I want to be a designer, this and that. So
many people are, you know, like with most of the
young people out of your way, they all want to
be rappers because they see on the Instagram all the
fakeness of the rented cars and the rented jets. I want.

Speaker 5 (45:30):
I watch those empty cribs and I go, they got nothing,
and if there's somep's.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
All one product that was placed in there, and.

Speaker 5 (45:42):
On our MTV cribs, you leftovers and there these I
even got a case of shock fulling Outs coffee because
shock Bownuts saw I had a bag in the refrigerator
case and.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
My god, shock, oh, my goodness.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
All right, my charity.

Speaker 5 (45:58):
What I've noticed, lyne is is that we tend to
gravitate towards charities that we have somehow a connection with
in our own lives. And and it makes sense because
there's something we can identify with. One of the first
ones I got Involvo was was the March of Dimes.
I had two prematurely born children who grew up to
be healthy and everything like that, but you know, they're

(46:20):
not every but so it was it helps children need babies,
It helps babies. And I related to that because at
the time I sat in at NCU watching my son
and my daughter, my daughter and incubators, my daughter nearly
dying of pneumonia of a Christmas she was born.

Speaker 4 (46:37):
She was born eight.

Speaker 5 (46:39):
Weeks early, and my wife had already been in the
hospital for four months because she was giving birth way
too prematurely. But that's neither here or there. So that
was one of my first children. Babies, they're helpless, they're defenseless.
I've worked with, UH, I worked with you know, for
children with cancer. Uh.

Speaker 4 (46:57):
You know, because they you know, they're the children.

Speaker 5 (47:01):
They can't help themselves, right, You know, children can't help themselves.
They're dependent on us and they're they're at our mercy,
whether with their lives, you know, for the children as well,
you know. So when it comes to kids, that's that's
my really my soft spot spot.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Yes, you guys are just the best.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
You know. It's like we we know, we know we
have our own bloodline children, but we also know that
it over there could use some love. Yeah, yeah, just
you know, some assistance. Like even what I'm working with
the foster kids and adopter kids. Adopting is a huge thing,
even being the fossil paris of the US thing, but
of marracoling. A lot of these kids' lives is this

(47:39):
thing mentorship. Okay, you know you're not adopting, and you're not,
but that's giving a kid. Yo, here's my phone number.
Anytime you need to talk, call me and the kid
will call.

Speaker 5 (47:52):
Yes, time giving your time. Yes, you're giving time back
to cats in the cradle. It's all about giving some
time to a kid.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
And the kid will go really and you go yeah,
and then they'll call just if it's serious. And then
you know, and all you got to do is se yeah,
I'm rooting for you, or I'm calling to see how
you're doing, and then you're here a month later. Oh
he's doing here. She's doing so well now with her studies,
she's going on to college. It's the time. Bruce Lee said,

(48:23):
you're so Bruce Lee said, time is the most important
thing for people.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Wow, you are so right. I have to tell you.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
While you were telling me that story, I just realized
so many people gave me time. I asked a million
questions growing up. I also think that's important to ask questions.

Speaker 7 (48:41):
You got to hang out with him, Yes, I'm always
but I remember my very first job at a radio
station was w CDJ smooth Jazz, and it had like
ding and you'd hear like seagulls fly by.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
My grandmother and grandfather listen to the channel. And that's
where I first started working at radio. And our first
concert was Bobby Caldwell What You Won't Do I Love?
And I was like, oh my god. So after the show,
I'm there, I'm working. I get six bucks an hour.
I'm not even on the air. I'm just playing shows
that are pre taped on a reel to reel. And

(49:17):
he came up to me after the show, and he's like, hey, kid,
I noticed you. You were working hard. He said, what
do you want to do? And I told him what
I wanted to do. He goes, when I come back
to Boston to perform again next year, you're going to
be on the radio. I can just tell I know
it well.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
And was like, wow, whoa.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
So a year later I got a job doing traffic
reports and I was on the radio and I went
back to his concert sat in the front row just
so I could tell him he was right, and thank
you for making me feel like I could do it.
Because someone like that telling me that I could do it,
it was like.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Hearing that I could do it.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
So yeah, so thanks for jogging my memory on that.
So when I asked both of you to come on
the show to talk about this specifically, de mentioned something
to me about see if you can find a performance
that Darryl and I did. Did you perform Cats in
the Cradle or did you perform Daryl Smith walk this way?

Speaker 4 (50:11):
He didn't walk? Yes, well, that a holiday thing, right,
it was a corporate gig. And Darryl asked me if
I would sing the Tyler part.

Speaker 5 (50:19):
I was like, I sang this in the clubs forever,
and two of us are very size, with the same
with the same style of performer like Chris Crossing on
that stage.

Speaker 4 (50:30):
We were working that shit, right.

Speaker 5 (50:32):
I mean, I love Tyler, but you and him, you
and me, you and me, man, it was phenomenal.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
I remember I was twenty feet so.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
That my favorite moments.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
That was ten years ago at Madison Square Garden. I
love the eighties. One question before well two more. One
is was there anything that you two have ever wanted
to ask each other? And don't feel bad if you didn't,
because I'm hitting you on the spot with it, But
if you did, I wanted to give you an opportunity too.

Speaker 5 (51:01):
Uh well, okay, I got two questions for you. May
have nothing from may I got to pay one. Did
you ever see Twisted Sister before you were family? Because
you guys came laughter of us on the Long Island
Clubs or something because it was Chuck d Chuck Dee
has said if there was no Twisted Sister, there'd be

(51:22):
no public enemy. He used to come see us, and
it was our defiance, our in your face, our few attitude,
which we had in spades, you know, and he he
saw that and he said that inspired me to put
together a fuck you bank, you know, and so I
was wondering if you because we played Queen's, we played.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Our friends all saw you. But me having the best
parents in the world, I was always the curfew kid.
I was always the kid.

Speaker 4 (51:56):
Dude me, dude. I never went to concerts, saw out
of the house.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
So I heard about all of this. And then when
I got into business, of course, I started seeing all
your videos on.

Speaker 4 (52:09):
TV and we would I would sit there and watch.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
Y'all on TV, and everybody was talking about they just
went to the concert. And every time I would sit
around and see you on TV, thedeed, that's nothing. We
saw love last Saturday or we saw love.

Speaker 4 (52:24):
So people would always.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
Rub it in as curious because we're like, I have
a question for him, because just like you said, do
you get upset being called a glad bandy because Twisted
Sister was a badass band of me. I didn't think
you're fitting to the cheesy, you know industry. Yeah, it was.

(52:53):
It was like y'all, y'all were It was almost like
it was in your own genres what I'm trying to say,
because there was then it was your ten It was metal,
and then it was auzing and stuff. Y'all never fit
in like I would always get confused saying what d snyper,
This motherfucker is a beast? You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 (53:14):
Thank you?

Speaker 3 (53:15):
You wasn't even industry. Y'all just played your music and
moved on. Man, So did you ever get hated being
considered a class because the clam man means you was
just that for that period of time? Y'all motherfuckers was
a bad man with some great songs.

Speaker 5 (53:31):
I thank you, I I've I've come, I've really analyze
this ship.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
You know.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
It's part of it comes with having all your brain
cells intact. Every this is and this is the truth.
I don't know if you guys know this.

Speaker 5 (53:43):
Every label applied to every form of music is derogatory,
and it was not the musicians didn't take the name.

Speaker 4 (53:55):
It was given by critics.

Speaker 5 (53:56):
Yes, jazz, blues, punk, punk, that heavy metal, hair metal.
All these terms were terms that were given written by
some writers and oh they are a hair metal bands,
Oh there, oh there are. Jazz was a derogatory term.

(54:18):
Punk was not a term that the bands, early, the
original punk bands, they hated that black Sabbath and led
Zeppelin a c DC. You don't call themself heavy metal bands.
They hate you called heavy metal bands. But the people
embrace the labels. They don't see it as a negative thing.

Speaker 4 (54:36):
They don't, they don't view it.

Speaker 5 (54:38):
The fans don't see as negative, and I just accept it.
Hence twenty nine years of doing a radio show called
the House of Hair. But it's name the show, but
that's it's it's it's affectionate to the fans. But we
got the we got those those labels put on us.
We owe Every music form has hated the label because

(54:59):
it basically let me it's you. It says that you're
not oh you're yes, you're not just a musician, you're
not just an artist. You're oh they're blues and they're
really trying to define you and limit you. And you know,
and so many bands have been limited.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
That ground and it wasn't even at fault. So you know,
you know that you're the second person in my musical
career who I have heard say that. Okay, you know
what the other person was that I heard say that
and was just like you. Ginger Baker, the drummer, the
Drama No Ship from queen. I've seen them on this documentary.

Speaker 4 (55:41):
Beware of Ginger Baker.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
Said to say, he said, it's fucking music, man. I
hate when they do that. Ship. They just doing that
to beat this respectful and I was like, Wow, you're
the second artist who fucking knows what they're talking about
who have said that that's true. It is.

Speaker 4 (55:58):
It's limiting.

Speaker 5 (55:59):
It's limiting your audience. It's limiting where how much airplay
you would get because you're oh, you did. That's why
MTV was so great, because it had such a cast,
such a broad deck. They were just looking for a
visual entity. And uh and so you would you know,
the exposure for a band like Twist's sister, Yes, and
for run Ding MC look with you with with with Arasmith,

(56:22):
I mean literally the crossover point. But people who weren't
listening to your genre music got a chance to see
you and know you a little and appreciate you. Yeah,
exactly know it was.

Speaker 4 (56:32):
It was an invaluable moment in time, but it's gone.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Labels labels can polarize people and making them not want
to even see which is why this is what I
learned Letterman. The reason why Letterman always put the bands
on later in the show. Is because he was afraid
if if he put him up front people, if they
didn't like that artist or wasn't into that music, they
would turn it off. So smart because and also award

(56:58):
shows neededly bulls so that they could put it on
the award because I remember when remember when they came
up with the heavy metal genre, You're.

Speaker 5 (57:06):
Not getting Metallica played and Jeff wrote tall One, that
first heavy metal.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Award of all that.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Yeah, yeah, well that just goes to show you that
labels don't work, and it's sort of a metaphor for
the world we're living in today, to which I think,
you know, you.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
Have one hundred percent while this division is going on.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
That's what it does.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
People are fighting. You're not even that your person, motherfucker
you think you're that, And you know what I'm.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Saying, that's right, he has spoken.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
That's why. What's funny, Yeah, what's funny is that's why
I love saying I'm the king of Rapid, I'm the
king of rock because all the rock was my second question,
say king of rock was all of all the rock? X.
You know what I'm saying, all of them? You know

(57:58):
from Queen a twisted system. To David Bowie, I wanted
to be that, but I had a problem. I couldn't
sing and I didn't have a band. So hip hop
allowed me to steal, I mean, sample all the music
of my favorite bands. And I said, I screamed on
the King of Rock because we would do press conferences
d and Land and the critics and that they would

(58:20):
always ask me, excuse me, DMC, where do you think
you will be in two years? It's hip hop a fad?
Are you gonna die like this going on? I'm eighteen
years old. I'm taking it personally, and I'm saying, motherfucker,
I'm wouna be the King of Rock. And Elphis is
gonna bow when I walk into the room. When I
step on the stage, Stephen Tyler's gonna hand me to
my This is just me crying in my friend.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
So I get it.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
I get what you When I started screaming the King
of Rock, and I would meet people like Heck Williams
Junior and bon Jovi and all of rock because they
would say, yeah, man, we like what y'all doing. Keep
doing what you're doing, because they seen that we was
a rebellion against people who was criticism us in US.

Speaker 5 (59:01):
And labeling and yeah, yeah, no, no, I guess why we.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
And you're speaking of talk shows, Lynn, that's why we
put Larry but Melman from the David Leediman Show at
the front door of the Rock Roll Hall of Fame
Museum in the King of Rock video. Member, it's Larry going,
you guys can't come in here, this as a rock
and roll museum. And I go, what, I'm the King
oh Rock and we go into the museum. It was

(59:26):
awesomeh and you say, so. We said, I'm gonna give
MTV something to show the rock people that don't think
I'm legitimate.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
It's it's just amazing too. Both did you both took risks?
You went out there.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
One other thing I just have to add in there
is that Suzette was probably a lot to do with
their look, which probably had something to do with why
they use the word glamor outfits.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Makeup.

Speaker 4 (59:51):
You can't you will not except take.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Blame, oh blame, but just why people.

Speaker 5 (59:56):
Know when she met me, so I was inspired by
the glitter bands of the early seventies, Alice Cooper, David Bowie,
Slay t Rex all coming out of England, all this stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:00:06):
And then stops, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:00:09):
Yeah, so I was into all that stuff and I
was doing it really badly. And uh and and since that,
she when we started dating, she started she was she
would like push me to, wow.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
Try stuff. You go, how might wear some nail push
we're nail poshe.

Speaker 5 (01:00:26):
Carey she go, she go, oh, just a little black
and she puts a black on. Well, black turt the
purple turt, the blue turts. The red turns to pink,
and I had pink nails for twenty years. And then
she said, why don't you wear some lipstick on?

Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
No, we're lipstick. I'm okay. She goes, oh, come on,
just a little gloss.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
That little gloss.

Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
Turns a little beige. By the end, it was bright
red lips for twenty years.

Speaker 5 (01:00:50):
So she kept pushing me to if you gotta do it,
she said, you gotta take a chance. And when I say, well,
you know, yeah, I guess you know, it's fun wearing makeup,
she goes, oh, you don't wear makeup.

Speaker 4 (01:01:01):
You wear war pasts. Yeah, she says, you're not. And
I looked at it and it looked like, you know,
I was like, you know, it's just like anger makeup.

Speaker 5 (01:01:10):
You know so anyway, but yeah, she's that's responsible.

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Then he took a turkey drum and said, I.

Speaker 5 (01:01:16):
Want to be the best you you could be both. Indeed,
you ain't pretty at the beginning. I was all, she goes,
you ain't pretty, get a little healthier.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Well besides everything or everyone getting to see you both
on Harry Chapin's Cats in the Cradle of The Song
That Changed Our Livestock, recently released on Amazon.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
What else do you two have coming up?

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Because I've read a few things, but I want to know,
you know from your mouth what's going on. I want
to start because you're always working on something fun. I
know that you both are always. This is why you're
you are always. Yeah, you got any new books or
singles or.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
Comic appurrently the fun new music Now at the end
of November, Agnostic Front their new album is out now.
I'm oh Jane, So I'm on the album on this
single called Matter of Life and Death Agnostic Front feature

(01:02:17):
in DMC. That's out right now. My second children's book
comes out. It's called Darryl's Christmas in Hollis. It's a
Christmas story about me growing up. It's for kindergarten in
fifth grade. But January twenty third, my new single off
my new upcoming album is called She Gets Me High.

(01:02:38):
It's me and Sebastian Bach on vocals, Travis Barker on drums,
Nice Nick Mars who's phenomenal on guitar, and Duff McKagan
on bass. So we did a song together in the studio.
It's called on Them She Gets Me dropping January twenty third,
and then I'll probably put the album out, the album

(01:02:59):
of probably hitting in August. I'm still putting the album together,
but that's what's going on right now. Agnostic Front A
Matter of Life and Death, which is out now. You
could check out the video. Get to single Darryl's Christmas
in Hollis and January January twenty third, DMC Sebastian Bach
on the mic, Travis bark on drums, Mick on guitar,

(01:03:20):
and Duff on bass, Damn d.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
When he came to the house, when he came to
the studio last year, he showed up at the front
door and it was in December twelfth, so we're very
close to Christmas and he handed me He's like, hi, oh,
Merry Christmas, and it was a bag of cookies.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
It was just cookies.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
So yeah, it's got the words from Christmas Time and
Hollis Queen's on the back of it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:41):
It's hilarious.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Darryl. Yeah, DMC also means Darryl makes cookies. You could
go to DMC dashcookies dot com and get some DMC
cookies or give me Christmas cakes.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Now, d I did hear some little rumor or something
because what was the name of your last tour, your
very last tour with Twisted Sister.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
It was called what.

Speaker 5 (01:04:07):
You mean forty in fucking yeah, that was that was
supposed to be the Bitter End. And it's been ten
years and this is the I've told this very publicly.
But okay, the truth I said I would never reunite.
I don't believe in I think it's bullshit when people
do that. We sawned in blood and then two years later,
you know, but I had an hell scare. I'm fine,

(01:04:31):
what do you mean? But it got me reflecting, well
I want till I get into details, but okay, yeah,
I'm fine, but it maybe reflect a little bit, you know,
and say, wow, that was scary, and.

Speaker 4 (01:04:43):
I don't want to go out like that. Now do
I want to go out?

Speaker 5 (01:04:46):
And I called the guys and said, next year is
fifty years since we joined forces nineteen seventy six.

Speaker 4 (01:04:54):
What do you think about doing some shows?

Speaker 5 (01:04:57):
And the guy said because I told him, never been
to and they were like, are you serious.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Like they couldn't believe what was reaction? I need to know.

Speaker 4 (01:05:07):
All they had to think about it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:09):
But Eddie was Eddie and John are like they like
they never expect to get the call from me.

Speaker 4 (01:05:14):
They expected to be and they and they neverybody. We
were getting.

Speaker 5 (01:05:18):
Constant offers over the last ten years, bigger and bigger offers.

Speaker 4 (01:05:21):
I just said, not happening, not happening.

Speaker 5 (01:05:24):
And then I called and so we told we had
a meeting, we talked about it, and we said.

Speaker 4 (01:05:27):
All right, let's one more time.

Speaker 5 (01:05:30):
So the.

Speaker 4 (01:05:32):
Man so it's not a tour.

Speaker 5 (01:05:34):
We're doing like twenty thirty shows around the world, big
festivals and stuff. But yeah, so but then just as
recent and headline in the Rock Mags was de Steinder says,
I don't know if I'm if I'm brave or stupid.
Be goes now that I've committed, and how that they
shows them and announce, oh.

Speaker 4 (01:05:50):
Damn, I gotta do, I gotta do ninety minutes. I
mean like, I damn, I gotta get back.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
And you love it. You could do it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:57):
I haven't sang like that. Let's like eighteen songs but that.
But the thing I'm most excited about is I'm directing
my first movie. I started a new film company called
Defiance Artists. My first movie, which is called My Enemy's Enemy,
is gonna go. I'm gonna be directing and the first
quarter and start pre production in February. So I'm gonna

(01:06:19):
be sitting in the director's chair and it's gonna be.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (01:06:26):
So I'm more I'm always more interested in the new
thing than the old day. I'm more interested in like
showing doing something that like I haven't done before.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:06:34):
The old thing's great and I'm proud of it and
it's our history, you know, and I love that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:38):
But it's to say, yeah, but I wrote this new
I wrote.

Speaker 5 (01:06:41):
I wrote a novel and I did and you know,
it's called Frats and it didn't sell shit, but just
I did it, it did.

Speaker 4 (01:06:48):
It's just saying I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna write it,
and it came out, it was published. You know, that's the.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Thing, finishing, finishing things.

Speaker 4 (01:06:54):
But I'm gonna tie up everything with the cats and cradle.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
I cheated.

Speaker 4 (01:07:00):
I cheated, and I fixed the problem.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
Guys.

Speaker 5 (01:07:03):
Now you fix the problem of time. You build a
family compound.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
I was just gonna ask you about that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
D dmc d. He has got a compound. He built
all his kids for grandkids, houses all in the compound
so they can be near each other.

Speaker 5 (01:07:22):
We all live together, so we all live so so
you know, I try to stay give him the space.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
You know. That's brilliant.

Speaker 4 (01:07:30):
But way more between moments.

Speaker 5 (01:07:32):
I mean, my my latest grandson was born. I got
a phone call from Shane. He says, she Abby's in labor.
She had a midwife on the compound, and like twenty
minutes after he was Chillian killing. I called Chilli chill,
but Killian was born. This freshly swallowed baby was brought

(01:07:54):
into our house and and like here he is.

Speaker 4 (01:07:58):
I was like, holy shit, twenty minutes this is just
so warm out of the oven, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:08:03):
I mean, it's that you can never get to experience
something like that right regular life, and you can go
to the hospital or visiting hours and everybody's there and
you look through the glass and I mean it could
so yeah, I cheated, IP all money had on building
this place so that we have time together and we're
all together.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
Now, beautiful thing, what you're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
And I bet Susan's super happy because I know when
you have the reality show she wanted to have more kids.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
The look in your face was like what you like five?

Speaker 4 (01:08:35):
Super happy?

Speaker 5 (01:08:36):
Except now she has to you know, she's a virgo.
She has to decorate everything. So now she's got a
compound that has to be finished in detailed And I'm like,
oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Daryl, when I went over to that house one time,
where's Suseette. Oh she's on the roof power cleaning this.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
Oh my good single.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
Yeah, yes, I'm not even kidding.

Speaker 4 (01:09:00):
Wow, Washington, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
Well Snyder, Darryl McDaniels. After twenty years apart, this one
song brought us back together again. And I'm so grateful.
And it's still changing lives and healing families and creators
and listeners for the better everywhere. And I just can't
thank you both enough for coming on the show and
and sharing these personal sides of you that we wouldn't

(01:09:24):
normally get to hear or see and even one day
your kids are going to probably hear this, so COURT like, wow,
I you know if they haven't heard it before, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:09:32):
I want to say shout out to the Chapin family
jin all the Yeah. I love y'all. I love him.

Speaker 5 (01:09:38):
They still her some buddy, he said, dude, you send
me an email. He said, thank you so much for
doing the show. Was so great. You was such a
great part of it. Blah blah blah. I want to
send you a vinyl album of Harry's latest release because
he's got you know, somebody, I said, Jason, you know

(01:09:59):
what I said.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
I hate folk music, said don't down.

Speaker 4 (01:10:06):
Of course, I said, I don't even have a stereo.
I don't need to listen to music in my house.

Speaker 5 (01:10:10):
I don't, But I said, yeah, I said, I said,
there's somebody else who's better served with this record.

Speaker 3 (01:10:22):
So I said, want to compound you put a little
basket all folk music for d m C. That Snider
has to felt it through him to be.

Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
I love I afforded to you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
Well, for those of you sticking around to listen to
this conversation, thank you so much. You can stream cats
in the Cradle the Song That Changed Our Lives on
Amazon Prime. And you can support the chap and Families
Mission y Hunger dot org, which is an incredible organization
as you heard on the show. And and this Thanksgiving,
put the phones and screens down and look up and

(01:11:00):
be the parent your kids remember us.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
And Happy Thanksgiving and.

Speaker 5 (01:11:05):
Happy Thanksgiving, Lynn, Happy Thanksgiving, Darryl, Happy Thanksgiving, Buzz, Happy Thanksgiving.

Speaker 4 (01:11:12):
Willie in the back there, Sody are working too hard, brother,