October 7, 2025 • 39 mins
Taking a Walk with Narada Michael Walden
Episode Description:
Join us for an inspiring chatl with the legendary Narada Michael Walden, one of music’s most decorated producers, drummers, and songwriters. From his early days as a powerhouse drummer with the Mahavishnu Orchestra to becoming a hitmaking producer who helped define the sound of the 1980s and beyond, Narada shares stories from an extraordinary career that spans jazz fusion, R&B, pop, and dance music.
During our interview, Narada opens up about working with icons like Whitney Houston, Aretha Franklin, and Mariah Carey, revealing the creative magic behind some of the biggest hits in music history. He discusses his philosophy of music as a spiritual practice and how meditation and his spiritual journey have influenced his approach to creating timeless songs.
Narada also talks about his current projects and new music, including his continued work at his renowned Tarpan Studios in California, where he’s producing and mentoring the next generation of artists. He shares his excitement about recent recordings that blend his signature infectious grooves with contemporary sounds, and reflects on how his approach to music-making has evolved while staying true to the joy and positivity that have always defined his work.
This conversation is a masterclass in creativity, perseverance, and the transformative power of music, as Narada discusses his Grammy Award-winning career, his induction into the Rhythm and Blues Music Hall of Fame, and his unwavering commitment to spreading love and light through his art.
Thanks to Claude for supporting this show.
Try Claude for free at Claude.ai/buzz
Support the show: https://takinawalk.com/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Taking a walk.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is such an honor. I'm here speaking, I'm taking
a walk with Nard to Michael Walden.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Hello, sir, Hey, how are you.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm fantastic. I'm fantastic. Welcome to taking a walk. This
is what we call the podcast now since we're not
taking a walk literally, but we are walking through music
history with you. I do want to ask you if
you could take a walk with somebody living or deceased,
who would you take a walk with and where would
(00:34):
you take that walk with him?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I don't know. For some reason, Ali came to me,
Muhammad Ali came to me and being in the woods,
like near woods. For some reason he came to me.
But of them then came a lot, Then came Prince,
then came Grew, then came Mavistu. All of them want
to come, Then came Carl. They all want to Yeah,
mother Mary Kim, she wanted to go and to fend
the wood to talk. Yes, okay, you know, I'm like
(00:56):
girl who didn't ride the bus. You wouldn't take the
back seat us'nt. Yeah, you want to go in the
woods and talk. Oh my god, and it's all it's
all good. They all want to come we all want
to have a part of the other.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
They're all invited. Everyone is invited before we dig here further,
including still yours for the summer and just everything and
your wonderful career though it does hit me. We also
produce this other podcast. It's hosted by my friend Lyn Hoffman.
It's called Music Save Me, and it's about the healing
(01:31):
power of music and what it does for us and
how important it is from musicians standpoints. Certainly, so I
believe I know where you're going to go with this,
but I do have to ask you, knowing your spirituality
and and your core beliefs, do you think music has
healing power?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Absolutely, without question, absolutely more than we even recognize or realize.
In fact, when I think in my childhood, it's the
music that comes to me first, the songs. If I
hear a song that I can see what I was doing,
Smell the air, the kind of car we we drove,
(02:12):
the conversations, the feelings, the excitement, the enthusiasms. Music is
the key to lock the whole universe. And in fact,
music is right next to God because dig it, if
God talks us in silence, what comes right after silence? Music?
(02:33):
So music is the highest form on the planet to
reach each other. I can go with Jeff Beck when
he was alive, from America to Japan, to China to Russia,
anywhere in the world, and that music communicates ma Vish.
You could communicate Carlos, communicate anywhere in the world. That's
(02:55):
the beauty of music. You don't speak the language you know,
but the music of the higher language. So I'm a
I am here in honor of music to keep the
music going and keep my heart young and fresh like
a little kid excited by the music.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
And the euphoria that you bring to your craft and
to your life is so contagious. It really connects us
all at a time when so many things don't connect us.
But it's the one thread certainly, not only your beautiful
work with it and all your collaborations, but that in
(03:37):
general what music gives to us. It keeps us together.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, and please tell your friend I want to be
on a show if you'll have me. They speak about
the spiritual aspects of music. And I got my name
Naruda behind him being a bit of vine musician. When
Guru gave me the name, he told me all the
stories about Narada with his music came to the earth
to inspire with loving God more or with divine message.
(04:01):
So it's all, it's all beautiful.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So do you remember I will you you are invited,
So hereby you are, you are hereby invited. But the
first moment you recall in life being connected deeply with music,
what was that first moments?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Oh? I loved like Frank Froggy went a court and
heated live. When I was a little little kid, a
little two year old. Those little nursery rhymes are so cool.
My dad would buying from me and it would be
just so sweet on the record player, you know, Mambo music,
(04:39):
looking at the beautiful covers of the ladies on the
covers of the Mambo Music and hearing George sharing with
Peggy Lee that album, the live album Beating in the
beatips called I think those are earli earlier recollections. Then
at my grandpa's house across the way, my mom's sisters
became Valerie, they would have Nina simonon live at on all.
(05:01):
Then I had to get out my my my python
and a pillow and play along just softly to try
to imitate the drummer on those records, you know, summertime.
I Loveji BORGHI Uh, just that the whole album is
so deep with Simon live all that that really got me,
(05:21):
you know. Then, of course, not long after, we go
on our little trips to Upper Michigan in our cottage
and they bring in an album by Horace Silver Cold,
six Pieces of Silver, and he'd be a piece on
there called Senior Blues, and they would say the drummer's
only eighteen, named Lewis Hayes from Detroit. I said, oh,
he's a little he's young. So that I had like
(05:41):
memori to doom doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
to doom doo doo doo doo doo doo do doom
doom to do digit ded do do. Didn't memorize all
the pieces, just so that's early, early, early on all
those things.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Man.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Even though even Harry Bella font Take My Mother Home
was a very scary piece, very frightening. I got frightened
as a kid. Then I remember good memories like when
they we first heard on the radio, Twist and Shot
by the Ivy Brothers on the radio.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
You just don't don't dun't them dumm don't dun't don't doom.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
You know all that all that rock and roll coming.
Also Little Richie on seventy eight's you Know Good GOLLI
Miss Molly at my Grandma's house. That was an electrifying
you as a little kid hearing that. Then I loved
the live album of Ray Charles what I say, Frenzy Spirit,
uh Drama on Tears and uhs just so incredible that album,
(06:40):
so I and then Fingertips came along and this wipe
me out all the live recordings, quite frankly, would knock
me out the live recordings.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Isn't that interesting thinking about that, because then you would
not only apply your craft in studios, uh and you
continue to brilliant, but you applied your craft in the
live performance area.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Who taught you the incredible disciplines that take you to
musical journeys and beauty.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
To this day.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
My mom and dad were very disciplined. My mom was
raised by her father was a great janitor custodian in
Kalamus in Michigan. Cleaned all the car places, insurance buildings,
cleaned everything, just made a sparkle be up at three
in the morning to get out, you know, in the
morning before place of open. So she had a great
discipline of helping him, you know, and seeing how hard
(07:36):
he worked. And then my own dad help helped him too,
and also ran, you know, a job in a paper mill,
and then they basically became a drafts room for Consumer's
Power company. But he was like a sergeant. My dad's
very serious. You know, whatever he said, we knew he
meant it. So there was no bullshit in that in
our family. And my dad wanted to be a drummer.
(07:56):
He would carry in the snow his friend's drums. I
got him build out from the Three Sounds, so I
also had to like listen to three Sounds and you know,
when I could play along with that record that my
dad would actually get me a new drum set to
go on TV and look really professional because I could.
I impressed my dad. I could play Bill Dowdy. So
it's all in the music. It's all the family. And
(08:18):
in Michigan where I'm from, himrom kalamazoo. You know, the
snow outside a lot. The weather's not so good to
go outside and play, so you're locked inside a lot
so you can play and practice and do things. And
my mom never complained about drumming the noise. Only thing
she ever complained about one to mile is downstairs with
my friend Steve Wiffen working over the Who's record of him.
I could see from miles and miles and miles, and
(08:40):
I wanted to get it right, and I was telling
the boys how to play it right. And I went
upstairs to get a glass of water. My mom said,
why are you shouting at those boys downstairs? So I'm
not shouting me say, yeah, you were being strong with him.
I said, I didn't mean to. I just want to
make sure we get the music right. So that's the
only thing she ever ever complained to me about. But
other than that, she didn't.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Care that the noise was there, and it was not noise.
It was beauty to her.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
In fact, as we lived in Planning on Michigan outside
calend they would take me two different rehearsals. I would
have on Saturday mornings with Joel Brooks, who played Orgon
in his house, and then we'd have Joel Brooks had
an uncle who owned the Ambassador Lounge, the cool lounge
on the north side of Calamba Zoo where all the
people would go hang out and drink and whatever, and
we can go in there early before they're opening act
(09:22):
and playing there and my parents would would help me
view that I want up. We have a big gig
on New Year's Eve, the Crazy Horse, and I'd go
in the Crazyers and play, so, you know, and you
see the big spinning light, mirror ball, you know, and
all the people. And so I was introduced to early
playing live and my and my parents loved it. They'd
(09:43):
helped me to hauler on my drums, which you know
is that's not easy, and haul on an organ and
even the Leslie no roadies with you then, oh, that
was my parents and his parents. So you know, really
real dedication. I'm trying to tell you. We don't think
about it, but I'm telling you that in the sixties, fifties, sixties,
(10:05):
you had to work to be in music.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Who's the Mount Rushmore of drummers for you?
Speaker 3 (10:12):
All of them. I love peaches, bananas, oranges, strawberry apples, grapes, grapefruits,
all of them. You don't need nobody else because they
all contributed. Like the start behind me, everybody brought their
own flavor and you needed it. Mitch Mitchell brought that flavor.
For Hamricks that no one else could have been better
I did at Jimmy than than Mitch Mitchell. Billy Cobben
(10:34):
brought that kicking, that fire behind the mobbish newth that
just scalded my soul to this very day. When I
saw them Harber, Connecticut, seventy two whatever, it was just
and the most incredible fire I've ever seen in my life,
so you know, and now, of course it's a little look, kid,
we have an album by Buddy Rich and Max Roach
going back and forth. I was like intrigued to hear that,
(10:57):
you know, R. Blakey on the sermon with Jimmy's smith
playing a rock back beat throughout the whole twenty two
minutes through that done good, Jane Dunk, Jane dang, you know,
which you wouldn't think and jazz would be a balloon's balley,
but that's what our rect was playing. That was my
favorite because it was just so just swinging strong like that.
Of course Take five comes out with Joe Morella. Oh
(11:18):
now that's something cool, you know. Or Cannibal Adley is
seven miles High, Mercy, Mercy, me sack of bol This year,
all that music that was coming out you know Michael
Bloom with Bunny Miles, the Electric flat bag so much.
Everywhere you look, even the movie Great Cold Cold Blood
was Sandy McGee. Everywhere you look Jagged is your not
(11:42):
first light? With Freddy Hubbard? You know Wendy with was
Montgomery ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.
All of it plays the Percy faith. All that stuff
was so beautiful. So I left my all of it.
And there is a rush Marble, if you have a
rush Marmore put them all up there.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I love that. I have to ask you about one
drummer though, in particular who was part of the Wrecon
crew and.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Cal Blaine hal Blaine.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
The one I'm thinking of, though, is the one that
had the tragic ending, Jim Gordon.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
I didn't know much about Jim Gordon. I knew, I'm
familiar with some of the recordings, but he was taken
out of the game so quickly with that axe, and
he hadn't taken it into jail. Now give him the
name of one or two of the pieces that he
be honest, I can tell.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
You well writing credits on Laylah for sure?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Is that anim playing drums on Layla?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yep okay I got it, and also though good vibrations
beach boys.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Oh that's him too, Okay, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I thought that was how I think hol was associated
with it as well. But he was That whole Wrecon
crew was the unknown group of you know, experts there
that were kind of no one knew them, but they
were all producing this incredible work. But the tragedy of
Jim Gordon was how the music industry uh turned its
(13:09):
back a mental illness. Uh, that's the traggy.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Now. I worked at the hospital of mental illness, and
I saw how it goes down. You know, shock treatments
and you know, take the people and put them in
the cages. You know something, I'm gonna strapp them down.
And my job is orderly to go in and unstrapped
them and wash them, bathe and clean them, shave them,
put on their clothing. You know andy actors who were
straining against Later they'll hurt themselves. Medi illness is a
(13:34):
very serious thing. I also I would take care of
the kids who would burn the house down. Runaways be
my job. And I've had got out of high school
from freshmen to ninth grade. Freshmen, take care of those
kids take them for a walk, or keep them the
same room and playing well or Happy Day by Edwin,
you know Edmund Edwin Star not Star, No, No.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
The choir guy, Edward Hawkins, Edward Hawkins sorry, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Or I'm leaving on a jet playing by Yeah, Peter,
Paul and Mary.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
You know. Things are kind of column now, you know,
But I would see the mental's firsthand, and back then
there was a budget to actually take people in. Of course,
Reagan came along and they kind of like dismantled some
of that stuff. People end up on the streets. So
you're saying, Jim Gordon a mentally problem. God knows, maybe
(14:24):
there wasn't anything to catch him. There was no net
to catch him, you know. And that's happening everywhere now,
even even full full force. Anywhere you go. You're seeing
holes on the street right down the street from where
I'm living here, my studio off the hanging out. There's
there's no place in to go. There's no net. Other
countries have a net. We don't. We don't believe it
(14:44):
on net over here. And it's gonna get worse because
the rich get rich and the poor get poor. So
the net they they ain't want to catch you. I'm
so sorry about it. It's my it's my.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
It hurts me well, and it goes back to the
thread at the beginning of the interview, just done the
fact of what music means and how it brings you know,
folks together and how it has you know, healing, uh,
you know processes as well.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Talk about your first time running into and then ultimately
making great magic with Aretha Franklin.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Aretha Franklin daunting. Clyde Davis opened that door for me
and he just said, direct, give her a phone call
like that, very understated, And I called her and the
conversation was just magical. I'm so glad I was prepared
for the phone call with my pen in my paper,
(15:52):
just take little notes and things because she speaks in
a way that I couldn't ever understand prior going into
the conversation that that's how would talk. But she speaks
in a very high faluting, has her own language, her
own way describing things that it's just it's just her.
(16:13):
So for example, I'll be on the phone, I said, well,
what do you do? What do you do? They have fun?
Speaker 4 (16:18):
And she said, oh, I might go out to a nightclub.
In the nightclub, I see a guy in the corner.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
He look good.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I look good.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
He was looking at hya. We both look good, kind
of like who's the one who?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yeah? But then you know he looking at me. I'm
looking at him. Well, you think he got me? But
then the fist jumps off the hook. He thinks he's
got me, but the fish jumps off the hook. What
are you talking? But that's how she was. Now I'll
get off the phone. I tell Preston Glass, this is
what she said. We gotta make a hit phone out
(16:54):
of us, and we did this. I'm the phone call,
just her being her. So when you talk about her
that had that hat, that comes to my mind. Then
when I went with the tape from San Francisco to
Detroit to go meet her, that's a whole other history.
Her walking in the room with her fur coat and
a cigarette. You're still smoking and looking in my eyes.
(17:16):
I look in her eyes. I let her know right away.
I'm here to be your friend and serve the music
and love you and be kind to you. I'm not
here to fight with you. And then it was like
cool because I could see in her eyes the genius
they all knowing, you know, can hear everything and sing
everything and play everything, piano everything, just looking at you,
(17:38):
the all knowingness of God.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
She is.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
She's walking dative God, the highest poem.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
So how about that?
Speaker 3 (17:45):
God. No, I'm not here to fight, I'm here to
make music. And then sure enough with Dave Fraser, hit
to play button, let the music come on. I saw
that whole thing like just go and she was like
that sounds so good, you know, you know, and then
she goes, I'm and go out to the microphone and
she was singing down the out there four times straight
through the whole song, down the outter like a man lane.
(18:07):
And she'll say, okay, I'm going to cut. I say okay,
and now she sounds up in her arrange like Aretha,
and the whole take us like a hit record. In fact,
to her, it is almost done. So I'll sing one
more time for you, you know, because you have a choice.
She's singing a second time like done, okay the time.
I'm so smart because I am smart. I'm a porpoise
(18:29):
and I'm like flipper they called him flipper flipper, but
he hit it. I said, you know what, because now
you're so high on the ending, do all these riffs
and stuff to do one or two more takes adjust that.
So I got all that in the bag. She said, okay,
So I let get happy. Whatever the riffs are, all
those ideas just flowing. Because I realized what people like that,
(18:49):
you can't come back to You gotta get it right then,
then go back to the first verse and gets studious,
because that first verse is critical for the R and
B singer. If there's too much R and B on
the first verse, can lose all your pop audience.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
I know that.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
So now I'm a little concerned that the first verse
is still too RB sounding, perhaps too much flippancy going on.
Maybe we need to have a little more subtle or
people in their cars and their officers can sing it
back more easily. I'm the first opening. We can get
more progressive as we go along, but let's start a
little simpler. So she would say to me, and then
(19:25):
she got kind to me, and she knew I was
She knew I'm a good person. She looked at me,
say you know I'm gonna do for you. I said what,
I'll give you one more take. It's called the straight reading.
I go the straight reading. Once that I go in,
I say it one more time for you, a little
closer to the melody that gives you one more take,
(19:48):
like okay, And she goes back in, and she'll sing
it to her, a little closer to melody. To me,
not that much different, but a little bit. So Inevitably,
when I come back home to my still sam le's
go here and comp would comp means put the words,
put the best lyrics together, the best performances together, I
(20:10):
end up using what I'm I thought was too R
and B. It's just so good. It's just so pure
that you can't you can't ignore it. You can't act
like you're gonna be simple because you want to be simple. No,
it's just too good. So I end up using it.
So I've learned so much from her, just to kind
of flow with her, make sure the chorus is a hit.
(20:30):
I'd always go over there with the choruses stacked up backgrounds,
so I knew that i'd be powerful no matter what
she would do, flipping around or carrying on the chorus,
be so powerful that I get one take where she's
singing with the chorus to make sure I had it.
And then once we knew each other how we worked,
we got to like peanut butter and jelly. And then
you want to what you want to eat? You want
(20:51):
to you want want to want cheese burger? You want
you want some fried chicken? Nor dude going down to
getting naught gnada going down and gett nauds and taking
the cheezburger. See it beyond man. Then she opened up
her pants, let her let her belly come out and
go and sing one more thing for you or whatever
one might be. Power unknown. No one can understand what
(21:15):
it's like to be in control of them with speakers,
hearing a read the frame of the boys coming out.
But I make things loud anyway, but powerful, clear, clean.
Every note is what she wants it to be. She
doesn't sing anything unless she hears it that way. For example,
one time I said this might be a little bit much.
Here she goes. She goes, we'll play it to me.
(21:35):
She'll let us say women play it to me, you know,
and the ash will almost be burning down. Just hang
a cigarette, you know. Listen to the whole thing. Love
and love and every damn think about it. And I say, well,
maybe this area right here, you know, could be a
little simple. She goes, well, that's just the way I
hear it. Okay, I get it, get it in my hand.
(21:56):
I get so. She she owe my and I op
in her eyes too. We both got along great. We
met her first planning with George Michael. I knew you
will waiting. Damn, I knew you will waiting for me.
First big number one pop record, Millia seller Freeway. I
love Who's that? We knew all that stuff we did.
(22:16):
I'm so proud of her and part of my history
with her when I went to her funeral. She's the
people's champion. All on the blocks in Detroit, just far
as you could ever see. All the people just lined
up to come and look at her. The night before
the big funeral, you know, and they had this song
(22:37):
playing out from that church called Mary Don't You Weep?
With her singing just perfect. You realize how damn genie
she is. Was is Mary don't you Weep? As these
people all lined up her people, the disenfranchise of the world,
the poor people, people ain't got nothing but just loved her.
(23:00):
And it be a little symbolized a little pink Cadillac
off front. But I was very proud to see but free.
We're in love. It's that right there. I never and
I never actually went in the church to look at her.
It was too patt I couldn't even get in there.
Even the day I want for them for the funeral.
I'm playing in the band, you know, for the music,
and I wanted to go take a speaker peek at
her before they close the coffin. Ralph Armstrong and I
(23:22):
went around for the band, standing all the way around
the church. We can get into before they closed. The
captain I said, no, respect the family. It's closed off now.
You're five minutes too late. And then but there's a nada.
He's part of the family. Respect the family. It's closed
off now. So it wasn't for me to see her
(23:43):
like that. But we had the best of times before
she passed. The way she called me on the phone.
I was gonna tell you, I love sitting on the
couch laughing with you. We had the best of times.
See that's the best it gets. Let me shoot say,
she said, And don't ever lose your mind. Dollar smile.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Okay, oh man, you know what I mean, you can't
beat that, man, That's priceless, kid.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
You can't beat that stup.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Oh man, Oh I got one thing.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I never played live with her. Back then, toward the
end of her life, the last seven shows of her life,
she said, would you come play with me? Said I'd
be honored, And I made seven shows with her, you know,
in New Jersey and a J Pax Center what it
was called Boston was incredible. Oh my god, uh New
York at that Radio City Music Hall, that Clyde Davis
(24:34):
event we did. And the last show was the Elton
John Aides concert at Saint John Devine, and I mean
it was packed with sting Billy Joel, Clyde Davis, anybody
with anybody in New York was there. Now this would
be her last show, and she came up kind of
(24:56):
rail thin now and people like, I'm like, whoa, you know,
But it didn't matter, man, She's sang her ass off
and that band played its ass love. When for the
Bundy was like fifteen minutes long. She wanted us a
rocket man and she leave the stage and come back
and still rocket. So that's how she was. And I
remember at one point she did her tribute to Nis
(25:19):
and Dorma live and I put the symbols with the
malice and I could see it over their sting and
every sting all crying just to hear her sing this
in Duma. It was so beautiful. I had one woman,
and I'm gonna share with you because it's on my brain. Sure.
The first I played live where there would be what
do you call those, an affair where they're like a
(25:40):
private function, not for just the public, for a private
affair in New York corporate A great one, though, I'd
be like a high faluting one. And that was the
first one I played live with her, and I went
up on a gam called Chain of Fools. She had
another drummer from the Detroit forgetting her name, Gaileen Gayleen,
(26:02):
the beautiful girl and a woman played really great, so
she'd be with you there and then it'd be my turn,
and I came on on chann of Fools. Chain of
Fools got so rocking with Rolph Armstrong and I. They
actually sang the song. She said, keep on going. We
kept going rock channing fools. Right. She goes and sits
down like like a prize fight, like in the corner,
like sitting down in the chair. Then she says, tells
(26:24):
the guys bring me some towels. They wrap her ft
with towels, you know, like like a Price Fighter, all
wrapped up record. Look like what towels? We're over rocking,
you know, Channa fools. You know what I'm saying. It's
really into it. And she's sitting there looking at me.
You know, I'm grooving. At one point she stood up
through all them towels, went back to the mic and
(26:45):
started rocking hardcore. That's why people love her. She just
gave everything, every thing. Man, it was like Olie and
Frasier just wow. And then I started realizing when you
go to Boston, before she even come out, the audience
be like, oh o reason, but you're here. Oh, it'd
(27:09):
be like a friends in the audience before she even
walk on the stage. And another thing I learned, you
could never talk to before before the show, and she
knows you're there, but she be dead quiet, not mentioning
a word to anybody save you her voice for a show.
And also to be back there, missed to make it
misty for her. But never you can never talk to her.
You can never talk to her, and she come out
(27:30):
and John's kill and she warned you to kill and
we did. Then after every show, the classic thing is true.
You know, go into her bra, pull out the cash,
pay you in cash. Then you have to sign on
the piece of paper, and you got paid in cash.
You know, all right, But then one time I got
embarrassed because I knew I was getting paid more. Another
(27:50):
cats in the band. So her girlfriend, part of the family, said,
go on, count your money. No, I think it's not.
Gaileen said, early and early, go and count your money
now fullling bears a counter in front ofveryone in all
the band look at me like this, Yeah, I count
your money now. Don't see how much I turn my back,
you know, counting. Okay, thank you us all here, thank you,
(28:13):
But I don't want to see how much it was
he making make the band upset, And then read the
seventeen you Gotta enjoy Me in new orders for the
jazz Fest. I said, of course, I'll be there for you.
But she never made the jazz Fest. She never made
the jazz Fest. She kind of hold her little side.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I knew she was in pain, you know, Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
We had a close relationship. You sure did as close
as a guests.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
I think you know, I'm still trying to get my
arms around. I love the visual. When you said in
the studio, how she just kind of you know, unbuttoned
things there and let things hang and said, let me
let it rip, baby.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
That's how it was. What she wanted to really go
for it, like you know she under under her pants.
I love it. Oh yes. And one more thing you
should know. This is a classic on the number one record,
you know. I in those days it was tape, so
I only had like one reel tape for George, ten
tracks another I mean two reels, one with a track
(29:14):
of the band and then another reel of the track.
Could be twenty four ten for George, ten for refam
and four for they can mess around. So the first
day a rereath would come in and do our parts,
not the all the ad lit stuff, just the verse
and the read was I the chorus isn't the you know,
versus the basic stuff that George come the next day
(29:37):
really nervous to let out his stuff. He laid on
his verses, his choruses, and I wouldn't do too much
oultro star. I want to save a third day for
them to come together for that ending, but even the
verses and choruses. George will say to me, you know what,
after doing ten tracks, here go back over my first
four tracks. I'm feeling stronger. And I would say, no, George,
(30:00):
I ain't doing that. Those first four tracks are the
record you think you're getting better, but if beck is not,
you're going down. The first four tracks were You're strongless
and I'm saved for those tracks. And he looked at
me like, who the hell do you think you are.
I'm George Michael. I know you, George Michael. But he
wasn't used toying a producer. I wasn't used to working
with him. But I had to stand up a strong
(30:21):
because I knew what I knew, And I said, George,
if you just go home, I'll stay up. All nine
compet together the best parts to show you when you
go tomorrow. If you've got any problem, we could do
it tomorrow. But right now I'm stopping. I can't go
any further because these are the best tracks. So he
came next day. I was able to knock him out
with how good it sounded. Then we could focus on
the ending, and then on the ending. I got two
(30:41):
mics for a Wretha nd for him. I had just
enough to go over the ending four different times. First
couple of times and Aretha's being really nice to him,
you know, just being kind of mild. Third and fourth time, Hell,
now she's stop, she's hot. She ripped you. Listening to
the end, you hear just an incredible thing and stunned George.
(31:04):
It was like a stun It's so incredible. It's on
the record. So I love that moment to see George
the stumber. Yeah, do the knock out blow on him.
She didn't want to scare him. The hell she can
help it. She's a wreath.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Oh man. Yeah, I have two more things I wanted
to talk to you about. One is I want to
talk about Euphoria and still yours for the summer. Oh,
there it is. The hearts are coming up. Tell me
how much enjoyment you had creating that work.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Which one Euphoria, Yeah, that was great. That was with
our partner in Italy named Leno Nickelossi and his family
where I write my songs over here, caught him do
what I'm going to do, sing them and someone over
there for his touch to add into it. His guitar work,
his sister of Bad Bad as bass player, his brother
Bat has keyboard player. Kind of just dress it up
from the European standpoint. I want to make sure something
(32:00):
to the European people of my work, because they loved
me over there ever since I had I should love
James non Im all right, divine emotion. Europe comes to
life with my music. Give me, give me the game
is like number one in Sweden. So I thought, let's
have some fun with the European touch, and that's what
he brought. That was a lot of fun for me
to hear back and forth, the culmination of my vibe,
his vibe coming together, and on the song for Sting,
(32:24):
I had that Lavault staying Carlos Stevie the more I
Love my life, And I said, let me just make
this into the little European touch on it. So he
did that too, and that was lovely, called them more
I love my life. So that was a lot of
fun to me. A lot of hard work because it's
you're working two carlets. You know, when I'm when I'm sleeping,
he's awake and vice versa. You know, I wake up
(32:44):
at six in the morning whatever, and there he'd be
like on me, but no, it's a notes and notes.
So that was a lot, but it was it was
great music. Now this new album mine, I made it
right here in my in my house.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Till years for the summer.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
It's in a way it's easier for me. I can
just just do it, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
And you had the great version of hot Fun in
the summertime.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yeah, I felt like, uh an honor to Sly. I
didn't realize it's gonna die. But something in my spirits said,
honor Sly and make it a dance version, like, just
change it up. So I took hop fun and madute
a dance kind of disco way in fun and what
you wouldn't expect. And when I did it, Jeff mcclusy
go out of Chicago. The big radio grew from Clyde
Davis's camp.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I know Jeff Yea and his team.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
They said this should be your first single because it's
something old, something new. I said, okay, put it up,
so they did. But then I kept. I came on
an another song, cale Boogie cherry Bomb for the summertime.
Call it kind of funky bikini sexy type song, having
fun in the you know in the beaches and all that,
and then our third single decided to make h Warren
(33:47):
Chappel said, do something from your catalog, you know, because
you got this great catalog. Take one those songs and
redo it. I said, well, let's take I Should Have
Loved You and and and I had I remember that
Leno had done a remix ofb I Should Love So
I took leonod remix, make sure I had my did
new vocals, new stuff on it, you know. And that
(34:08):
became our third single. And now the album is just
freshly out and I'm really problem to the song ste you.
It's the summer Peaches. Neil Sean from Journey, a great
soul of Maham, got another testimony for my vision, how
much I love him, how much he helped me, discovering me,
bringing me open the door. Because I got to tell
you bus night to making this industry is the hardest
(34:32):
thing in the world. There's no book on it. There's
no book on it. There's no magic. It's just half
of the stance. I saw so many talented, talented people
in Midwest, you know, touring. I see they're so great, gifted,
but maybe they'd never make it. So I was just
always praying I was gonna do with his movistud that
(34:52):
you know, that actually took me in and mainly because
I think I was. I was ready to pray and
meditate with the Guru and just make myself what he
he needed me to be. And it was where it
worked out, and God blessed it because from there I
toured Ma Visnina and that Jeff Back and The Weather
Report and you know, all kind of about Tommy Bowling.
I actually talked with Jordan Tommy Bowlmen's band over Weather
(35:14):
Report because I wanted to do more rock and roll
at that time. So all those doors just started opening
for me, you know, Garden Lovelight. I was able to
nick my album solo albums with Atlantic. You know, it's
it was easy, but but God made a way, so
very thankful in my life that I've been able to
kind of cross reading across you know, meet Tommy Dowd,
(35:36):
you know who says you got to bring a Sissy
Houston singing on the Guarden love Light. Okay, I didn't
know Sissy, but he did, so he didn't come to
Sissy Houston with her whole group. And here's a little
Whitney Houston, eleven years old on the corner watching the
session and they sound incredible. Wow, I met Whitdnet even
she's eleven. That's because of time me doubt incredible. That's
how I got another piece for Jeff Beck. Jeff flew
(35:57):
in from London to become the Saying. The Rascal. Carl
and Vantanmdenna complain on first Love on my first album
sounds so blessed. Mike Gibbs, who arrange the strings for
Apocalypse from Ovish Workers, arrange the strings for my album
gard on Lovelight. So I'm just I'm really really grateful,
(36:18):
uh that so many nice things that's been in able
to come across my path.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Can you share the new project that you're that you're
working on?
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Which one you mean the one today?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah? Today?
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Today we're on a very heavy project, heavy in the
sense that is so mind blowed, mind boggling. We're doing
a tribute to Motown. It's called the Motown Salutes, a
song that Otis Williams from The Temptations wants me to
write and we're running it together to honor all the
greatness of Motown. So I've cut a tracked twice because
I wanted to make it. First time I did, it
was more like kind of easy going, like a what's
(36:52):
going on kind of cool? But then we want to
put up we man, we have going to attract there
twice now making it more more more the dynamic. So
and then I had I had to look at changing
my lyric to make them more than that A two.
But it's so much of a story who you who you?
Who you put in? Who you do? We have to
leave out because you only got four minutes, you know.
(37:14):
But it's incredible that the word that came out of Motown.
It's staggering, you know. James Jamis and Benny Benjamin, how
they found a little Cde Wonder Ronald White for the Miracles,
how Smooky wrote my guy and my Girl produced them
of course all hit for the Miracles. Became the vice
president of the company. How the Temptations came on, came
on the scene and became the biggest act over there.
(37:37):
You know, four Tops. Dinah Ross was was a receptionist.
They came down to Ross became the supremes. Martha Reeves
told me she had the hottest records, you know, Heat
wed and Quick, sand and Dancing because you paid them
more money. See, that's why my records had more heat on.
Damn it's true. Those those records she put out was
had fire. It's just so much in there.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, oh my god, how exciting and blessed the great
Mickey Stevenson.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Right right, but his name is not mentioned, but exactly.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, well he was always the man behind the scenes,
right Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Thean Andante's, all the backing singers, they not be They
mentioned what they were there, Kim Wesson, who I loved,
you know, take me your armors, brock me, block me
a little while. That's not what you mentioned. This is
more of the main thing that we all know.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Oh man and Barry Gordy.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Yeah, and the team, how hard they worked. They take
all these kids from the ghettos, they had nothing and
polish them up, teach them how to eat, out of dress,
how to dance, how to meet the king and the
queen and had him records and they did.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Oh man, I can't thank you enough. I can't thank
you enough for being on taking a walk narrative, Michael Ball.
Then for all you give us, well, you continue to
give us the joy, you give us, the energy, you
give us, the positive vibes and the love. Oh man,
thank you.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
So much, Thank you too. Do you want to know
anything else?
Speaker 2 (38:58):
You all done? I you know what Part two will
be coming around. I love it.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
I love that so great that one says a bunch
of me.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Man, you are the best. Thank you so much, Thank
you very I love you.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
Taking a walk.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is such an honor. I'm here speaking, I'm taking
a walk with Nard to Michael Walden.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Hello, sir, Hey, how are you.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm fantastic. I'm fantastic. Welcome to taking a walk. This
is what we call the podcast now since we're not
taking a walk literally, but we are walking through music
history with you. I do want to ask you if
you could take a walk with somebody living or deceased,
who would you take a walk with and where would
(00:34):
you take that walk with him?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I don't know. For some reason, Ali came to me,
Muhammad Ali came to me and being in the woods,
like near woods. For some reason he came to me.
But of them then came a lot, Then came Prince,
then came Grew, then came Mavistu. All of them want
to come, Then came Carl. They all want to Yeah,
mother Mary Kim, she wanted to go and to fend
the wood to talk. Yes, okay, you know, I'm like
(00:56):
girl who didn't ride the bus. You wouldn't take the
back seat us'nt. Yeah, you want to go in the
woods and talk. Oh my god, and it's all it's
all good. They all want to come we all want
to have a part of the other.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
They're all invited. Everyone is invited before we dig here further,
including still yours for the summer and just everything and
your wonderful career though it does hit me. We also
produce this other podcast. It's hosted by my friend Lyn Hoffman.
It's called Music Save Me, and it's about the healing
(01:31):
power of music and what it does for us and
how important it is from musicians standpoints. Certainly, so I
believe I know where you're going to go with this,
but I do have to ask you, knowing your spirituality
and and your core beliefs, do you think music has
healing power?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Absolutely, without question, absolutely more than we even recognize or realize.
In fact, when I think in my childhood, it's the
music that comes to me first, the songs. If I
hear a song that I can see what I was doing,
Smell the air, the kind of car we we drove,
(02:12):
the conversations, the feelings, the excitement, the enthusiasms. Music is
the key to lock the whole universe. And in fact,
music is right next to God because dig it, if
God talks us in silence, what comes right after silence? Music?
(02:33):
So music is the highest form on the planet to
reach each other. I can go with Jeff Beck when
he was alive, from America to Japan, to China to Russia,
anywhere in the world, and that music communicates ma Vish.
You could communicate Carlos, communicate anywhere in the world. That's
(02:55):
the beauty of music. You don't speak the language you know,
but the music of the higher language. So I'm a
I am here in honor of music to keep the
music going and keep my heart young and fresh like
a little kid excited by the music.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
And the euphoria that you bring to your craft and
to your life is so contagious. It really connects us
all at a time when so many things don't connect us.
But it's the one thread certainly, not only your beautiful
work with it and all your collaborations, but that in
(03:37):
general what music gives to us. It keeps us together.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, and please tell your friend I want to be
on a show if you'll have me. They speak about
the spiritual aspects of music. And I got my name
Naruda behind him being a bit of vine musician. When
Guru gave me the name, he told me all the
stories about Narada with his music came to the earth
to inspire with loving God more or with divine message.
(04:01):
So it's all, it's all beautiful.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So do you remember I will you you are invited,
So hereby you are, you are hereby invited. But the
first moment you recall in life being connected deeply with music,
what was that first moments?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Oh? I loved like Frank Froggy went a court and
heated live. When I was a little little kid, a
little two year old. Those little nursery rhymes are so cool.
My dad would buying from me and it would be
just so sweet on the record player, you know, Mambo music,
(04:39):
looking at the beautiful covers of the ladies on the
covers of the Mambo Music and hearing George sharing with
Peggy Lee that album, the live album Beating in the
beatips called I think those are earli earlier recollections. Then
at my grandpa's house across the way, my mom's sisters
became Valerie, they would have Nina simonon live at on all.
(05:01):
Then I had to get out my my my python
and a pillow and play along just softly to try
to imitate the drummer on those records, you know, summertime.
I Loveji BORGHI Uh, just that the whole album is
so deep with Simon live all that that really got me,
(05:21):
you know. Then, of course, not long after, we go
on our little trips to Upper Michigan in our cottage
and they bring in an album by Horace Silver Cold,
six Pieces of Silver, and he'd be a piece on
there called Senior Blues, and they would say the drummer's
only eighteen, named Lewis Hayes from Detroit. I said, oh,
he's a little he's young. So that I had like
(05:41):
memori to doom doo doo doo doo doo doo doo
to doom doo doo doo doo doo doo do doom
doom to do digit ded do do. Didn't memorize all
the pieces, just so that's early, early, early on all
those things.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Man.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Even though even Harry Bella font Take My Mother Home
was a very scary piece, very frightening. I got frightened
as a kid. Then I remember good memories like when
they we first heard on the radio, Twist and Shot
by the Ivy Brothers on the radio.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
You just don't don't dun't them dumm don't dun't don't doom.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
You know all that all that rock and roll coming.
Also Little Richie on seventy eight's you Know Good GOLLI
Miss Molly at my Grandma's house. That was an electrifying
you as a little kid hearing that. Then I loved
the live album of Ray Charles what I say, Frenzy Spirit,
uh Drama on Tears and uhs just so incredible that album,
(06:40):
so I and then Fingertips came along and this wipe
me out all the live recordings, quite frankly, would knock
me out the live recordings.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Isn't that interesting thinking about that, because then you would
not only apply your craft in studios, uh and you
continue to brilliant, but you applied your craft in the
live performance area.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Who taught you the incredible disciplines that take you to
musical journeys and beauty.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
To this day.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
My mom and dad were very disciplined. My mom was
raised by her father was a great janitor custodian in
Kalamus in Michigan. Cleaned all the car places, insurance buildings,
cleaned everything, just made a sparkle be up at three
in the morning to get out, you know, in the
morning before place of open. So she had a great
discipline of helping him, you know, and seeing how hard
(07:36):
he worked. And then my own dad help helped him too,
and also ran, you know, a job in a paper mill,
and then they basically became a drafts room for Consumer's
Power company. But he was like a sergeant. My dad's
very serious. You know, whatever he said, we knew he
meant it. So there was no bullshit in that in
our family. And my dad wanted to be a drummer.
(07:56):
He would carry in the snow his friend's drums. I
got him build out from the Three Sounds, so I
also had to like listen to three Sounds and you know,
when I could play along with that record that my
dad would actually get me a new drum set to
go on TV and look really professional because I could.
I impressed my dad. I could play Bill Dowdy. So
it's all in the music. It's all the family. And
(08:18):
in Michigan where I'm from, himrom kalamazoo. You know, the
snow outside a lot. The weather's not so good to
go outside and play, so you're locked inside a lot
so you can play and practice and do things. And
my mom never complained about drumming the noise. Only thing
she ever complained about one to mile is downstairs with
my friend Steve Wiffen working over the Who's record of him.
I could see from miles and miles and miles, and
(08:40):
I wanted to get it right, and I was telling
the boys how to play it right. And I went
upstairs to get a glass of water. My mom said,
why are you shouting at those boys downstairs? So I'm
not shouting me say, yeah, you were being strong with him.
I said, I didn't mean to. I just want to
make sure we get the music right. So that's the
only thing she ever ever complained to me about. But
other than that, she didn't.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Care that the noise was there, and it was not noise.
It was beauty to her.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
In fact, as we lived in Planning on Michigan outside
calend they would take me two different rehearsals. I would
have on Saturday mornings with Joel Brooks, who played Orgon
in his house, and then we'd have Joel Brooks had
an uncle who owned the Ambassador Lounge, the cool lounge
on the north side of Calamba Zoo where all the
people would go hang out and drink and whatever, and
we can go in there early before they're opening act
(09:22):
and playing there and my parents would would help me
view that I want up. We have a big gig
on New Year's Eve, the Crazy Horse, and I'd go
in the Crazyers and play, so, you know, and you
see the big spinning light, mirror ball, you know, and
all the people. And so I was introduced to early
playing live and my and my parents loved it. They'd
(09:43):
helped me to hauler on my drums, which you know
is that's not easy, and haul on an organ and
even the Leslie no roadies with you then, oh, that
was my parents and his parents. So you know, really
real dedication. I'm trying to tell you. We don't think
about it, but I'm telling you that in the sixties, fifties, sixties,
(10:05):
you had to work to be in music.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Who's the Mount Rushmore of drummers for you?
Speaker 3 (10:12):
All of them. I love peaches, bananas, oranges, strawberry apples, grapes, grapefruits,
all of them. You don't need nobody else because they
all contributed. Like the start behind me, everybody brought their
own flavor and you needed it. Mitch Mitchell brought that flavor.
For Hamricks that no one else could have been better
I did at Jimmy than than Mitch Mitchell. Billy Cobben
(10:34):
brought that kicking, that fire behind the mobbish newth that
just scalded my soul to this very day. When I
saw them Harber, Connecticut, seventy two whatever, it was just
and the most incredible fire I've ever seen in my life,
so you know, and now, of course it's a little look, kid,
we have an album by Buddy Rich and Max Roach
going back and forth. I was like intrigued to hear that,
(10:57):
you know, R. Blakey on the sermon with Jimmy's smith
playing a rock back beat throughout the whole twenty two
minutes through that done good, Jane Dunk, Jane dang, you know,
which you wouldn't think and jazz would be a balloon's balley,
but that's what our rect was playing. That was my
favorite because it was just so just swinging strong like that.
Of course Take five comes out with Joe Morella. Oh
(11:18):
now that's something cool, you know. Or Cannibal Adley is
seven miles High, Mercy, Mercy, me sack of bol This year,
all that music that was coming out you know Michael
Bloom with Bunny Miles, the Electric flat bag so much.
Everywhere you look, even the movie Great Cold Cold Blood
was Sandy McGee. Everywhere you look Jagged is your not
(11:42):
first light? With Freddy Hubbard? You know Wendy with was
Montgomery ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.
All of it plays the Percy faith. All that stuff
was so beautiful. So I left my all of it.
And there is a rush Marble, if you have a
rush Marmore put them all up there.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I love that. I have to ask you about one
drummer though, in particular who was part of the Wrecon
crew and.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Cal Blaine hal Blaine.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
The one I'm thinking of, though, is the one that
had the tragic ending, Jim Gordon.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
I didn't know much about Jim Gordon. I knew, I'm
familiar with some of the recordings, but he was taken
out of the game so quickly with that axe, and
he hadn't taken it into jail. Now give him the
name of one or two of the pieces that he
be honest, I can tell.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
You well writing credits on Laylah for sure?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Is that anim playing drums on Layla?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yep okay I got it, and also though good vibrations
beach boys.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Oh that's him too, Okay, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I thought that was how I think hol was associated
with it as well. But he was That whole Wrecon
crew was the unknown group of you know, experts there
that were kind of no one knew them, but they
were all producing this incredible work. But the tragedy of
Jim Gordon was how the music industry uh turned its
(13:09):
back a mental illness. Uh, that's the traggy.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Now. I worked at the hospital of mental illness, and
I saw how it goes down. You know, shock treatments
and you know, take the people and put them in
the cages. You know something, I'm gonna strapp them down.
And my job is orderly to go in and unstrapped
them and wash them, bathe and clean them, shave them,
put on their clothing. You know andy actors who were
straining against Later they'll hurt themselves. Medi illness is a
(13:34):
very serious thing. I also I would take care of
the kids who would burn the house down. Runaways be
my job. And I've had got out of high school
from freshmen to ninth grade. Freshmen, take care of those
kids take them for a walk, or keep them the
same room and playing well or Happy Day by Edwin,
you know Edmund Edwin Star not Star, No, No.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
The choir guy, Edward Hawkins, Edward Hawkins sorry, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Or I'm leaving on a jet playing by Yeah, Peter,
Paul and Mary.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
You know. Things are kind of column now, you know,
But I would see the mental's firsthand, and back then
there was a budget to actually take people in. Of course,
Reagan came along and they kind of like dismantled some
of that stuff. People end up on the streets. So
you're saying, Jim Gordon a mentally problem. God knows, maybe
(14:24):
there wasn't anything to catch him. There was no net
to catch him, you know. And that's happening everywhere now,
even even full full force. Anywhere you go. You're seeing
holes on the street right down the street from where
I'm living here, my studio off the hanging out. There's
there's no place in to go. There's no net. Other
countries have a net. We don't. We don't believe it
(14:44):
on net over here. And it's gonna get worse because
the rich get rich and the poor get poor. So
the net they they ain't want to catch you. I'm
so sorry about it. It's my it's my.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
It hurts me well, and it goes back to the
thread at the beginning of the interview, just done the
fact of what music means and how it brings you know,
folks together and how it has you know, healing, uh,
you know processes as well.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Talk about your first time running into and then ultimately
making great magic with Aretha Franklin.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Aretha Franklin daunting. Clyde Davis opened that door for me
and he just said, direct, give her a phone call
like that, very understated, And I called her and the
conversation was just magical. I'm so glad I was prepared
for the phone call with my pen in my paper,
(15:52):
just take little notes and things because she speaks in
a way that I couldn't ever understand prior going into
the conversation that that's how would talk. But she speaks
in a very high faluting, has her own language, her
own way describing things that it's just it's just her.
(16:13):
So for example, I'll be on the phone, I said, well,
what do you do? What do you do? They have fun?
Speaker 4 (16:18):
And she said, oh, I might go out to a nightclub.
In the nightclub, I see a guy in the corner.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
He look good.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I look good.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
He was looking at hya. We both look good, kind
of like who's the one who?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yeah? But then you know he looking at me. I'm
looking at him. Well, you think he got me? But
then the fist jumps off the hook. He thinks he's
got me, but the fish jumps off the hook. What
are you talking? But that's how she was. Now I'll
get off the phone. I tell Preston Glass, this is
what she said. We gotta make a hit phone out
(16:54):
of us, and we did this. I'm the phone call,
just her being her. So when you talk about her
that had that hat, that comes to my mind. Then
when I went with the tape from San Francisco to
Detroit to go meet her, that's a whole other history.
Her walking in the room with her fur coat and
a cigarette. You're still smoking and looking in my eyes.
(17:16):
I look in her eyes. I let her know right away.
I'm here to be your friend and serve the music
and love you and be kind to you. I'm not
here to fight with you. And then it was like
cool because I could see in her eyes the genius
they all knowing, you know, can hear everything and sing
everything and play everything, piano everything, just looking at you,
(17:38):
the all knowingness of God.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
She is.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
She's walking dative God, the highest poem.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
So how about that?
Speaker 3 (17:45):
God. No, I'm not here to fight, I'm here to
make music. And then sure enough with Dave Fraser, hit
to play button, let the music come on. I saw
that whole thing like just go and she was like
that sounds so good, you know, you know, and then
she goes, I'm and go out to the microphone and
she was singing down the out there four times straight
through the whole song, down the outter like a man lane.
(18:07):
And she'll say, okay, I'm going to cut. I say okay,
and now she sounds up in her arrange like Aretha,
and the whole take us like a hit record. In fact,
to her, it is almost done. So I'll sing one
more time for you, you know, because you have a choice.
She's singing a second time like done, okay the time.
I'm so smart because I am smart. I'm a porpoise
(18:29):
and I'm like flipper they called him flipper flipper, but
he hit it. I said, you know what, because now
you're so high on the ending, do all these riffs
and stuff to do one or two more takes adjust that.
So I got all that in the bag. She said, okay,
So I let get happy. Whatever the riffs are, all
those ideas just flowing. Because I realized what people like that,
(18:49):
you can't come back to You gotta get it right then,
then go back to the first verse and gets studious,
because that first verse is critical for the R and
B singer. If there's too much R and B on
the first verse, can lose all your pop audience.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
I know that.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
So now I'm a little concerned that the first verse
is still too RB sounding, perhaps too much flippancy going on.
Maybe we need to have a little more subtle or
people in their cars and their officers can sing it
back more easily. I'm the first opening. We can get
more progressive as we go along, but let's start a
little simpler. So she would say to me, and then
(19:25):
she got kind to me, and she knew I was
She knew I'm a good person. She looked at me,
say you know I'm gonna do for you. I said what,
I'll give you one more take. It's called the straight reading.
I go the straight reading. Once that I go in,
I say it one more time for you, a little
closer to the melody that gives you one more take,
(19:48):
like okay, And she goes back in, and she'll sing
it to her, a little closer to melody. To me,
not that much different, but a little bit. So Inevitably,
when I come back home to my still sam le's
go here and comp would comp means put the words,
put the best lyrics together, the best performances together, I
(20:10):
end up using what I'm I thought was too R
and B. It's just so good. It's just so pure
that you can't you can't ignore it. You can't act
like you're gonna be simple because you want to be simple. No,
it's just too good. So I end up using it.
So I've learned so much from her, just to kind
of flow with her, make sure the chorus is a hit.
(20:30):
I'd always go over there with the choruses stacked up backgrounds,
so I knew that i'd be powerful no matter what
she would do, flipping around or carrying on the chorus,
be so powerful that I get one take where she's
singing with the chorus to make sure I had it.
And then once we knew each other how we worked,
we got to like peanut butter and jelly. And then
you want to what you want to eat? You want
(20:51):
to you want want to want cheese burger? You want
you want some fried chicken? Nor dude going down to
getting naught gnada going down and gett nauds and taking
the cheezburger. See it beyond man. Then she opened up
her pants, let her let her belly come out and
go and sing one more thing for you or whatever
one might be. Power unknown. No one can understand what
(21:15):
it's like to be in control of them with speakers,
hearing a read the frame of the boys coming out.
But I make things loud anyway, but powerful, clear, clean.
Every note is what she wants it to be. She
doesn't sing anything unless she hears it that way. For example,
one time I said this might be a little bit much.
Here she goes. She goes, we'll play it to me.
(21:35):
She'll let us say women play it to me, you know,
and the ash will almost be burning down. Just hang
a cigarette, you know. Listen to the whole thing. Love
and love and every damn think about it. And I say, well,
maybe this area right here, you know, could be a
little simple. She goes, well, that's just the way I
hear it. Okay, I get it, get it in my hand.
(21:56):
I get so. She she owe my and I op
in her eyes too. We both got along great. We
met her first planning with George Michael. I knew you
will waiting. Damn, I knew you will waiting for me.
First big number one pop record, Millia seller Freeway. I
love Who's that? We knew all that stuff we did.
(22:16):
I'm so proud of her and part of my history
with her when I went to her funeral. She's the
people's champion. All on the blocks in Detroit, just far
as you could ever see. All the people just lined
up to come and look at her. The night before
the big funeral, you know, and they had this song
(22:37):
playing out from that church called Mary Don't You Weep?
With her singing just perfect. You realize how damn genie
she is. Was is Mary don't you Weep? As these
people all lined up her people, the disenfranchise of the world,
the poor people, people ain't got nothing but just loved her.
(23:00):
And it be a little symbolized a little pink Cadillac
off front. But I was very proud to see but free.
We're in love. It's that right there. I never and
I never actually went in the church to look at her.
It was too patt I couldn't even get in there.
Even the day I want for them for the funeral.
I'm playing in the band, you know, for the music,
and I wanted to go take a speaker peek at
her before they close the coffin. Ralph Armstrong and I
(23:22):
went around for the band, standing all the way around
the church. We can get into before they closed. The
captain I said, no, respect the family. It's closed off now.
You're five minutes too late. And then but there's a nada.
He's part of the family. Respect the family. It's closed
off now. So it wasn't for me to see her
(23:43):
like that. But we had the best of times before
she passed. The way she called me on the phone.
I was gonna tell you, I love sitting on the
couch laughing with you. We had the best of times.
See that's the best it gets. Let me shoot say,
she said, And don't ever lose your mind. Dollar smile.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Okay, oh man, you know what I mean, you can't
beat that, man, That's priceless, kid.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
You can't beat that stup.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Oh man, Oh I got one thing.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I never played live with her. Back then, toward the
end of her life, the last seven shows of her life,
she said, would you come play with me? Said I'd
be honored, And I made seven shows with her, you know,
in New Jersey and a J Pax Center what it
was called Boston was incredible. Oh my god, uh New
York at that Radio City Music Hall, that Clyde Davis
(24:34):
event we did. And the last show was the Elton
John Aides concert at Saint John Devine, and I mean
it was packed with sting Billy Joel, Clyde Davis, anybody
with anybody in New York was there. Now this would
be her last show, and she came up kind of
(24:56):
rail thin now and people like, I'm like, whoa, you know,
But it didn't matter, man, She's sang her ass off
and that band played its ass love. When for the
Bundy was like fifteen minutes long. She wanted us a
rocket man and she leave the stage and come back
and still rocket. So that's how she was. And I
remember at one point she did her tribute to Nis
(25:19):
and Dorma live and I put the symbols with the
malice and I could see it over their sting and
every sting all crying just to hear her sing this
in Duma. It was so beautiful. I had one woman,
and I'm gonna share with you because it's on my brain. Sure.
The first I played live where there would be what
do you call those, an affair where they're like a
(25:40):
private function, not for just the public, for a private
affair in New York corporate A great one, though, I'd
be like a high faluting one. And that was the
first one I played live with her, and I went
up on a gam called Chain of Fools. She had
another drummer from the Detroit forgetting her name, Gaileen Gayleen,
(26:02):
the beautiful girl and a woman played really great, so
she'd be with you there and then it'd be my turn,
and I came on on chann of Fools. Chain of
Fools got so rocking with Rolph Armstrong and I. They
actually sang the song. She said, keep on going. We
kept going rock channing fools. Right. She goes and sits
down like like a prize fight, like in the corner,
like sitting down in the chair. Then she says, tells
(26:24):
the guys bring me some towels. They wrap her ft
with towels, you know, like like a Price Fighter, all
wrapped up record. Look like what towels? We're over rocking,
you know, Channa fools. You know what I'm saying. It's
really into it. And she's sitting there looking at me.
You know, I'm grooving. At one point she stood up
through all them towels, went back to the mic and
(26:45):
started rocking hardcore. That's why people love her. She just
gave everything, every thing. Man, it was like Olie and
Frasier just wow. And then I started realizing when you
go to Boston, before she even come out, the audience
be like, oh o reason, but you're here. Oh, it'd
(27:09):
be like a friends in the audience before she even
walk on the stage. And another thing I learned, you
could never talk to before before the show, and she
knows you're there, but she be dead quiet, not mentioning
a word to anybody save you her voice for a show.
And also to be back there, missed to make it
misty for her. But never you can never talk to her.
You can never talk to her, and she come out
(27:30):
and John's kill and she warned you to kill and
we did. Then after every show, the classic thing is true.
You know, go into her bra, pull out the cash,
pay you in cash. Then you have to sign on
the piece of paper, and you got paid in cash.
You know, all right, But then one time I got
embarrassed because I knew I was getting paid more. Another
(27:50):
cats in the band. So her girlfriend, part of the family, said,
go on, count your money. No, I think it's not.
Gaileen said, early and early, go and count your money
now fullling bears a counter in front ofveryone in all
the band look at me like this, Yeah, I count
your money now. Don't see how much I turn my back,
you know, counting. Okay, thank you us all here, thank you,
(28:13):
But I don't want to see how much it was
he making make the band upset, And then read the
seventeen you Gotta enjoy Me in new orders for the
jazz Fest. I said, of course, I'll be there for you.
But she never made the jazz Fest. She never made
the jazz Fest. She kind of hold her little side.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I knew she was in pain, you know, Oh, thank you.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
We had a close relationship. You sure did as close
as a guests.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
I think you know, I'm still trying to get my
arms around. I love the visual. When you said in
the studio, how she just kind of you know, unbuttoned
things there and let things hang and said, let me
let it rip, baby.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
That's how it was. What she wanted to really go
for it, like you know she under under her pants.
I love it. Oh yes. And one more thing you
should know. This is a classic on the number one record,
you know. I in those days it was tape, so
I only had like one reel tape for George, ten
tracks another I mean two reels, one with a track
(29:14):
of the band and then another reel of the track.
Could be twenty four ten for George, ten for refam
and four for they can mess around. So the first
day a rereath would come in and do our parts,
not the all the ad lit stuff, just the verse
and the read was I the chorus isn't the you know,
versus the basic stuff that George come the next day
(29:37):
really nervous to let out his stuff. He laid on
his verses, his choruses, and I wouldn't do too much
oultro star. I want to save a third day for
them to come together for that ending, but even the
verses and choruses. George will say to me, you know what,
after doing ten tracks, here go back over my first
four tracks. I'm feeling stronger. And I would say, no, George,
(30:00):
I ain't doing that. Those first four tracks are the
record you think you're getting better, but if beck is not,
you're going down. The first four tracks were You're strongless
and I'm saved for those tracks. And he looked at
me like, who the hell do you think you are.
I'm George Michael. I know you, George Michael. But he
wasn't used toying a producer. I wasn't used to working
with him. But I had to stand up a strong
(30:21):
because I knew what I knew, And I said, George,
if you just go home, I'll stay up. All nine
compet together the best parts to show you when you
go tomorrow. If you've got any problem, we could do
it tomorrow. But right now I'm stopping. I can't go
any further because these are the best tracks. So he
came next day. I was able to knock him out
with how good it sounded. Then we could focus on
the ending, and then on the ending. I got two
(30:41):
mics for a Wretha nd for him. I had just
enough to go over the ending four different times. First
couple of times and Aretha's being really nice to him,
you know, just being kind of mild. Third and fourth time, Hell,
now she's stop, she's hot. She ripped you. Listening to
the end, you hear just an incredible thing and stunned George.
(31:04):
It was like a stun It's so incredible. It's on
the record. So I love that moment to see George
the stumber. Yeah, do the knock out blow on him.
She didn't want to scare him. The hell she can
help it. She's a wreath.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Oh man. Yeah, I have two more things I wanted
to talk to you about. One is I want to
talk about Euphoria and still yours for the summer. Oh,
there it is. The hearts are coming up. Tell me
how much enjoyment you had creating that work.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Which one Euphoria, Yeah, that was great. That was with
our partner in Italy named Leno Nickelossi and his family
where I write my songs over here, caught him do
what I'm going to do, sing them and someone over
there for his touch to add into it. His guitar work,
his sister of Bad Bad as bass player, his brother
Bat has keyboard player. Kind of just dress it up
from the European standpoint. I want to make sure something
(32:00):
to the European people of my work, because they loved
me over there ever since I had I should love
James non Im all right, divine emotion. Europe comes to
life with my music. Give me, give me the game
is like number one in Sweden. So I thought, let's
have some fun with the European touch, and that's what
he brought. That was a lot of fun for me
to hear back and forth, the culmination of my vibe,
his vibe coming together, and on the song for Sting,
(32:24):
I had that Lavault staying Carlos Stevie the more I
Love my life, And I said, let me just make
this into the little European touch on it. So he
did that too, and that was lovely, called them more
I love my life. So that was a lot of
fun to me. A lot of hard work because it's
you're working two carlets. You know, when I'm when I'm sleeping,
he's awake and vice versa. You know, I wake up
(32:44):
at six in the morning whatever, and there he'd be
like on me, but no, it's a notes and notes.
So that was a lot, but it was it was
great music. Now this new album mine, I made it
right here in my in my house.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Till years for the summer.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
It's in a way it's easier for me. I can
just just do it, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
And you had the great version of hot Fun in
the summertime.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yeah, I felt like, uh an honor to Sly. I
didn't realize it's gonna die. But something in my spirits said,
honor Sly and make it a dance version, like, just
change it up. So I took hop fun and madute
a dance kind of disco way in fun and what
you wouldn't expect. And when I did it, Jeff mcclusy
go out of Chicago. The big radio grew from Clyde
Davis's camp.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I know Jeff Yea and his team.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
They said this should be your first single because it's
something old, something new. I said, okay, put it up,
so they did. But then I kept. I came on
an another song, cale Boogie cherry Bomb for the summertime.
Call it kind of funky bikini sexy type song, having
fun in the you know in the beaches and all that,
and then our third single decided to make h Warren
(33:47):
Chappel said, do something from your catalog, you know, because
you got this great catalog. Take one those songs and
redo it. I said, well, let's take I Should Have
Loved You and and and I had I remember that
Leno had done a remix ofb I Should Love So
I took leonod remix, make sure I had my did
new vocals, new stuff on it, you know. And that
(34:08):
became our third single. And now the album is just
freshly out and I'm really problem to the song ste you.
It's the summer Peaches. Neil Sean from Journey, a great
soul of Maham, got another testimony for my vision, how
much I love him, how much he helped me, discovering me,
bringing me open the door. Because I got to tell
you bus night to making this industry is the hardest
(34:32):
thing in the world. There's no book on it. There's
no book on it. There's no magic. It's just half
of the stance. I saw so many talented, talented people
in Midwest, you know, touring. I see they're so great, gifted,
but maybe they'd never make it. So I was just
always praying I was gonna do with his movistud that
(34:52):
you know, that actually took me in and mainly because
I think I was. I was ready to pray and
meditate with the Guru and just make myself what he
he needed me to be. And it was where it
worked out, and God blessed it because from there I
toured Ma Visnina and that Jeff Back and The Weather
Report and you know, all kind of about Tommy Bowling.
I actually talked with Jordan Tommy Bowlmen's band over Weather
(35:14):
Report because I wanted to do more rock and roll
at that time. So all those doors just started opening
for me, you know, Garden Lovelight. I was able to
nick my album solo albums with Atlantic. You know, it's
it was easy, but but God made a way, so
very thankful in my life that I've been able to
kind of cross reading across you know, meet Tommy Dowd,
(35:36):
you know who says you got to bring a Sissy
Houston singing on the Guarden love Light. Okay, I didn't
know Sissy, but he did, so he didn't come to
Sissy Houston with her whole group. And here's a little
Whitney Houston, eleven years old on the corner watching the
session and they sound incredible. Wow, I met Whitdnet even
she's eleven. That's because of time me doubt incredible. That's
how I got another piece for Jeff Beck. Jeff flew
(35:57):
in from London to become the Saying. The Rascal. Carl
and Vantanmdenna complain on first Love on my first album
sounds so blessed. Mike Gibbs, who arrange the strings for
Apocalypse from Ovish Workers, arrange the strings for my album
gard on Lovelight. So I'm just I'm really really grateful,
(36:18):
uh that so many nice things that's been in able
to come across my path.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Can you share the new project that you're that you're
working on?
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Which one you mean the one today?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah? Today?
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Today we're on a very heavy project, heavy in the
sense that is so mind blowed, mind boggling. We're doing
a tribute to Motown. It's called the Motown Salutes, a
song that Otis Williams from The Temptations wants me to
write and we're running it together to honor all the
greatness of Motown. So I've cut a tracked twice because
I wanted to make it. First time I did, it
was more like kind of easy going, like a what's
(36:52):
going on kind of cool? But then we want to
put up we man, we have going to attract there
twice now making it more more more the dynamic. So
and then I had I had to look at changing
my lyric to make them more than that A two.
But it's so much of a story who you who you?
Who you put in? Who you do? We have to
leave out because you only got four minutes, you know.
(37:14):
But it's incredible that the word that came out of Motown.
It's staggering, you know. James Jamis and Benny Benjamin, how
they found a little Cde Wonder Ronald White for the Miracles,
how Smooky wrote my guy and my Girl produced them
of course all hit for the Miracles. Became the vice
president of the company. How the Temptations came on, came
on the scene and became the biggest act over there.
(37:37):
You know, four Tops. Dinah Ross was was a receptionist.
They came down to Ross became the supremes. Martha Reeves
told me she had the hottest records, you know, Heat
wed and Quick, sand and Dancing because you paid them
more money. See, that's why my records had more heat on.
Damn it's true. Those those records she put out was
had fire. It's just so much in there.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, oh my god, how exciting and blessed the great
Mickey Stevenson.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Right right, but his name is not mentioned, but exactly.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, well he was always the man behind the scenes,
right Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Thean Andante's, all the backing singers, they not be They
mentioned what they were there, Kim Wesson, who I loved,
you know, take me your armors, brock me, block me
a little while. That's not what you mentioned. This is
more of the main thing that we all know.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Oh man and Barry Gordy.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Yeah, and the team, how hard they worked. They take
all these kids from the ghettos, they had nothing and
polish them up, teach them how to eat, out of dress,
how to dance, how to meet the king and the
queen and had him records and they did.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Oh man, I can't thank you enough. I can't thank
you enough for being on taking a walk narrative, Michael Ball.
Then for all you give us, well, you continue to
give us the joy, you give us, the energy, you
give us, the positive vibes and the love. Oh man,
thank you.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
So much, Thank you too. Do you want to know
anything else?
Speaker 2 (38:58):
You all done? I you know what Part two will
be coming around. I love it.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
I love that so great that one says a bunch
of me.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Man, you are the best. Thank you so much, Thank
you very I love you.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.