November 17, 2023 • 17 mins
The band Nirvana recorded an acoustic performance at Sony Music Studios in New York City on November 18. 1993 for the television series MTV Unplugged.
It was released November 1, 1994, and we celebrate this moment in music history with former Nirvana manager Danny Goldberg along with former MTV music executive Rob Barnett.
We also get the perspective of some Nirvana fans who were there for the event.
Support the show: https://takinawalk.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Look, Kurt was certainly struggling with drugs at the time.
This is widely known, but creatively in my experience was
that he always knew exactly what he was doing and
he executed one of the greatest you know, arguably the
greatest MTV Unplugged ever.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
The Taking a Walk podcast loves to celebrate great moments
in music history. There was an iconic moment that occurred
on November eighteenth, nineteen ninety three, in New York City.
Nirvana recorded their MTV Unplugged in New York, which stands
the test of time as a seminal moment in their
career and in music. Join host Buzz Night with special
(00:41):
guests that include Danny Goldberg, longtime music executive and at
the time he was the manager of Nirvana. Buzz is
also joined by former MTV VH one executive Rob Barnett,
who shares his recollections from that magic moment in music history.
We'll also hear from some fans who were there at
the concert sharing their piece of music history. All next
(01:03):
on Taking a Walk Danny Goldberg.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Danny, can you tell us about the process that led
to the performance becoming a reality?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, there were a couple of different factors.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
One was.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
That Kurt had put an enormous amount of energy into
the video for Heart Shaped Box. It was the most
highest budget video Nirvana had done. There was a change directors,
and he didn't really feel he couldn't think of another
music video in his mind for a subsequent song that
(01:43):
would that would that would live up to the production
of Heart Shaped Box, and he just wasn't He didn't
have a vision for it prior to you know, all
of the Nirvana videos were Kurt's ideas, you know, as
well as like King Spirit and in Bloom and so
forth and and so Unplugged, but he wanted to do
justice to in Utero, which had just come out, you know,
(02:06):
only been out a few few months. And he was very,
very tuned into the influence and cultural footprint of MTV.
He watched MTV a lot, and he knew they were
really important to the band's connection with their fans. So
so Unplugged was a way of having a significant presence
(02:27):
on MTV without making another music video. That was one factor.
And another factor is I think MTV wanted the band
to do it, and he didn't love saying no to MTV.
He would say no to the on occasion because his
art and his own personal schedule came first, but they
were very important to him. And then at some point
(02:47):
he developed the creative vision of what a Nirvana unplugged
would be. I don't know when that happened, but by
the time they did it, it was completely different from
any other unplugged I mean, most are when they did it,
unplugged would just do their hits, an acoustic version of them.
(03:07):
The Nirvana Unplugged didn't even have some of their biggest
songs on it. There was no smells like teen Spirit,
for example, and it had several songs that had never
been recorded or even performed by Nirvana before those meat
puppet songs. And David Bowie managed old the world. I
(03:27):
mean maybe he had done it at some point in
the past, but I never heard him do it, and
he really had this vision of a different kind of
instrumentation and just kind of another version of his art.
So it started out as a marketing idea and ended
up being, you know, a real creative self expression for him.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So I know, the rehearsal process in Weehawken was definitely
a challenging process. What were you recollect of that rehearsal.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Oh, I was. I was on the West coast. My
my my wife was about to give birth to our son, Max,
and so I wasn't there. I was on the phone
a lot with both him and other people around. But look,
Kurt was certainly struggling with drugs at the time. This
(04:25):
is widely known, but creatively, in my experience was that
he always knew exactly what he was doing, and he
he executed, you know, one of the greatest, you know,
arguably the greatest MTV unplugged ever. So, you know, I
don't I don't remember any more drama about the rehearsals
(04:47):
that other than the continuing drama of his, you know,
personal issues that had been going on, you know, for
several months.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Did you feel then that he was discovering a new
style in terms of the form that that performance ultimately took.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Well, he talked about it afterwards. I spoke to him
the next day, and he was really excited by it
at that time. Janet Billig, who worked for my company then,
who was very close to Kurt, told me that in
the immediate aftermath of it, he was worried that it
sucked and He was very anxiety written about it, but
when he got so much good feedback by the next
(05:27):
day when I spoke to him, he was really excited
and he felt that people would perceive the band in
a new way. He was so ambitious that he as
successful as Nirvana had been two number one albums redefining
what commercial rock and roll was globally, he still felt
he had other parts of himself creatively that were meaningful,
(05:47):
and he thought he had really he had really demonstrated
some of that with the Unplugged. So he was really
really excited about it by the next day, and there
was no question in my mind that this was again,
this was art. To him, this was not.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
And did you end up feeling differently about the performance
as time passed and when it would ultimately run on
MTV that December?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Oh, I don't know. I fell in love with it
right away. I mean, you know, I loved hearing his voice.
I thought the performances were incredible. The lead belly song,
the Bowie song, the Penny Royalty without any rhythm, just
almost a folk version of it, and that was one
of my favorite of his lyrics. I knew right away
(06:35):
it was spectacular and so I still feel that way
to this day. You know, a lot of people the
Unplugged is their favorite Nirvana album. It's certainly up there
along never Mind in Utero as one of the three
albums that really defines the band's legacy.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Thank you, Danny, that's tremendous. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Oh my pleasure, Bizz, thanks for including me.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
I'm Sarah from Fairfield, Connecticut, and I cannot believe it
has been thirty years since I witnessed Nirvana at the
MTV Unplugged performance in New York.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
I knew when I was walking in, like this really
was going to be something special, Like there was just
such a vibe, like with all the Nirvana fans, like
you could just feel the aura in the air.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
I am James and I'm fifty years old now. I
live in Montclair in New York, and I was there
November eighteenth, nineteen ninety three, for what was a magnificent
performance at the Nirvana MTV Unplugged. I knew I had
witnessed music history. The atmosphere there was so electric from
(07:56):
the moment we walked in, the stage was beauty full
set with candles and flowers and that iconic Nirvana logo backdrop.
You could you could feel the anticipation in the air,
and then Kurt Christ and Dave walked out and the
crowd just erupted.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Rob Barnett, So, Rob, thanks for being on this moment
of taking a walk where we are celebrating the MTV
Nirvana unplugged in New York from November of ninety three.
Now you had an eleven year run at MTV and
VH one. What were you doing in particular at this
(08:37):
time at MTV?
Speaker 7 (08:40):
I was a lucky, lucky boy because years after programming
some of America's finest rock radio stations all around the country,
I got to MTV in the late eighties, and that
was a time when it was still all music, and
I was one of the heads of programming at MTV.
(09:01):
So my job, along with just five other human beings,
every single Monday morning, was to sit in a big
honkin conference room where they would show us every single
music video that was submitted that week, and then, like
Christians to the Lions, we'd either do thumbs up or
(09:26):
thumbs down. Three of us were the music programmers. We
were you know, we had those radio chops, right, And
then the other three people in the room were called
Taar Talent and Artist Relations. They were there with equally
great you know, music experience and programmer chops, but they
were representing what the labels and the artists were interested in.
(09:50):
And then the genius of the chairman of then Viacom,
Tom Preston, was that the six of us would fight
right because there were only a few slots that would
be added to that playlist every week.
Speaker 8 (10:03):
So that was that was the first part of the job.
Second part of the job was that I sat in
an office that had four people that worked under me,
and the twenty four hour pages of a full day
programming log would get passed up the line each day
from the junior person on the staff up to me
(10:26):
and we would we would literally, you know, go over
every minute of every hour of everything that was on MTV.
We programmed the thing like a radio station with pictures.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
So do you remember who was really at the core
of the person that sort of you know, brought this
idea forward about Nirvana doing this performance.
Speaker 8 (10:50):
Well, it's a great story because you know, success has
many mothers and many fathers, but there is absolutely no question.
If you're an Nirvana fan, then you need to know
if you don't already about who Amy Finnerty is, because
back then, you know, remember the old days when we
(11:11):
would go to our job and have to show up
at nine a m especially on a Monday, Remember those days.
Buzz Yeah, even if we had the coolest jobs in
the world, you fucking have to go to your job
and show up at nine o'clock in the morning. And
the funniest thing about MTV back then is some of
us even wore suits, which just makes you want to
(11:32):
throw up now when you think about it. You know,
remember when radio guys like we started to wear like
sport jackets and ties and we all look like idiots. Well,
it was a little bit like that. And on many
many Monday mornings, when four out of the five people
that worked for me would show up, the desk down
(11:55):
at the end of the line, Amy Finnerty's desk would
be empty on many many Monday mornings, and I would
look at all my guys and I would say to
Kurt Stephik, one of her best buddies, one of the
great programmers of MTV where the fuck is Amy? And
Kurt would give me some sort of doggate my homework cover, like, oh, yeah,
(12:15):
she's out of town and she wanted you to know
that she missed her flight, and I go, well, great,
when is she going to be here? Oh, the the plane.
You know, I think this afternoon, many many weeks when
Amy wasn't where she should have been at Times Square. No,
we weren't even in Times Square. We were at Columbus
(12:35):
Circle in New York. Back then, Amy was in Seattle,
and for MTV's purposes, Amy Finnerty was busy discovering Nirvana.
And when she came back on one certain week and
started playing that music for the senior leadership team of MTV,
(12:57):
the world changed because if you look at the context
of what was happening in music, and especially what was
happening at MTV. Late eighties, we had a hair band phase.
Early nineties, we had a boy band phase.
Speaker 9 (13:17):
And you know, I was a little sad during the
boy band phase because I thought I was working at
the pop culture center of the universe, and I of
course wanted to be working at the rock and roll
center of the universe.
Speaker 8 (13:35):
But we were a little busy for a few years
playing Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch and you know,
Backstreet Boys in sync. That's what was happening a few
moments before we heard Nirvana, and everyone in the world
knows that that not only changed the course of rock forever,
(13:59):
we can now say, decades and decades later, that that
moment was the last major innovation in the story of rock.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
And when you listen today to Unplugged in New York
with Nirvana, tell me as you reflect on that, how
you feel about the performance, how it stands up now.
Speaker 8 (14:26):
Well, it's great to get the invitation to reconnect with you,
especially to talk about this topic and this album, because
I spent the last couple of nights listening again to
that magic moment on this earth, and you can't listen
to it without the agony and the pain of losing Kurt.
(14:49):
When that happened, my office was seated next to Kurt Loder.
For many years, Kurt and I worked together on dozens
of the MTV docs that were called rockumentaries. But when
we lost Kurt not long after MTV unplugged, Kurt was
(15:10):
our Walter Cronkite, and this was one of the great
moments in American history, in world history, to lose one
of the true geniuses in the history of music. When
you listen to Nirvana unplugged, you're hearing the marriage of pop, rock, punk,
(15:34):
and this ineffable section of American music that took something
that was in the same breath, raw, melodic and pop
that it almost doesn't mathematically add up in your mind
(15:55):
except for the fact that its strengthen its power is
in its uniqueness and in its ability to just rip
right through your soul and demand that you pay attention
to something that is completely unlike anything else. I mean,
I'm old enough to have spent a lot of years
(16:18):
at CBGB's and the punk clubs in the mid and
late seventies in New York. This was certainly the child
of that, but it took it in a direction that
punk could never really get to, or was never designed
to get to. Nirvana took it to the top of
(16:40):
the mountain.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
It's brilliant. Thank you, Rob, so great to be with
you again.
Speaker 8 (16:46):
Yeah, thanks man.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Look, Kurt was certainly struggling with drugs at the time.
This is widely known, but creatively in my experience was
that he always knew exactly what he was doing and
he executed one of the greatest you know, arguably the
greatest MTV Unplugged ever.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
The Taking a Walk podcast loves to celebrate great moments
in music history. There was an iconic moment that occurred
on November eighteenth, nineteen ninety three, in New York City.
Nirvana recorded their MTV Unplugged in New York, which stands
the test of time as a seminal moment in their
career and in music. Join host Buzz Night with special
(00:41):
guests that include Danny Goldberg, longtime music executive and at
the time he was the manager of Nirvana. Buzz is
also joined by former MTV VH one executive Rob Barnett,
who shares his recollections from that magic moment in music history.
We'll also hear from some fans who were there at
the concert sharing their piece of music history. All next
(01:03):
on Taking a Walk Danny Goldberg.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Danny, can you tell us about the process that led
to the performance becoming a reality?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, there were a couple of different factors.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
One was.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
That Kurt had put an enormous amount of energy into
the video for Heart Shaped Box. It was the most
highest budget video Nirvana had done. There was a change directors,
and he didn't really feel he couldn't think of another
music video in his mind for a subsequent song that
(01:43):
would that would that would live up to the production
of Heart Shaped Box, and he just wasn't He didn't
have a vision for it prior to you know, all
of the Nirvana videos were Kurt's ideas, you know, as
well as like King Spirit and in Bloom and so
forth and and so Unplugged, but he wanted to do
justice to in Utero, which had just come out, you know,
(02:06):
only been out a few few months. And he was very,
very tuned into the influence and cultural footprint of MTV.
He watched MTV a lot, and he knew they were
really important to the band's connection with their fans. So
so Unplugged was a way of having a significant presence
(02:27):
on MTV without making another music video. That was one factor.
And another factor is I think MTV wanted the band
to do it, and he didn't love saying no to MTV.
He would say no to the on occasion because his
art and his own personal schedule came first, but they
were very important to him. And then at some point
(02:47):
he developed the creative vision of what a Nirvana unplugged
would be. I don't know when that happened, but by
the time they did it, it was completely different from
any other unplugged I mean, most are when they did it,
unplugged would just do their hits, an acoustic version of them.
(03:07):
The Nirvana Unplugged didn't even have some of their biggest
songs on it. There was no smells like teen Spirit,
for example, and it had several songs that had never
been recorded or even performed by Nirvana before those meat
puppet songs. And David Bowie managed old the world. I
(03:27):
mean maybe he had done it at some point in
the past, but I never heard him do it, and
he really had this vision of a different kind of
instrumentation and just kind of another version of his art.
So it started out as a marketing idea and ended
up being, you know, a real creative self expression for him.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So I know, the rehearsal process in Weehawken was definitely
a challenging process. What were you recollect of that rehearsal.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Oh, I was. I was on the West coast. My
my my wife was about to give birth to our son, Max,
and so I wasn't there. I was on the phone
a lot with both him and other people around. But look,
Kurt was certainly struggling with drugs at the time. This
(04:25):
is widely known, but creatively, in my experience was that
he always knew exactly what he was doing, and he
he executed, you know, one of the greatest, you know,
arguably the greatest MTV unplugged ever. So, you know, I
don't I don't remember any more drama about the rehearsals
(04:47):
that other than the continuing drama of his, you know,
personal issues that had been going on, you know, for
several months.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Did you feel then that he was discovering a new
style in terms of the form that that performance ultimately took.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Well, he talked about it afterwards. I spoke to him
the next day, and he was really excited by it
at that time. Janet Billig, who worked for my company then,
who was very close to Kurt, told me that in
the immediate aftermath of it, he was worried that it
sucked and He was very anxiety written about it, but
when he got so much good feedback by the next
(05:27):
day when I spoke to him, he was really excited
and he felt that people would perceive the band in
a new way. He was so ambitious that he as
successful as Nirvana had been two number one albums redefining
what commercial rock and roll was globally, he still felt
he had other parts of himself creatively that were meaningful,
(05:47):
and he thought he had really he had really demonstrated
some of that with the Unplugged. So he was really
really excited about it by the next day, and there
was no question in my mind that this was again,
this was art. To him, this was not.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
And did you end up feeling differently about the performance
as time passed and when it would ultimately run on
MTV that December?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Oh, I don't know. I fell in love with it
right away. I mean, you know, I loved hearing his voice.
I thought the performances were incredible. The lead belly song,
the Bowie song, the Penny Royalty without any rhythm, just
almost a folk version of it, and that was one
of my favorite of his lyrics. I knew right away
(06:35):
it was spectacular and so I still feel that way
to this day. You know, a lot of people the
Unplugged is their favorite Nirvana album. It's certainly up there
along never Mind in Utero as one of the three
albums that really defines the band's legacy.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Thank you, Danny, that's tremendous. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Oh my pleasure, Bizz, thanks for including me.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
I'm Sarah from Fairfield, Connecticut, and I cannot believe it
has been thirty years since I witnessed Nirvana at the
MTV Unplugged performance in New York.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
I knew when I was walking in, like this really
was going to be something special, Like there was just
such a vibe, like with all the Nirvana fans, like
you could just feel the aura in the air.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
I am James and I'm fifty years old now. I
live in Montclair in New York, and I was there
November eighteenth, nineteen ninety three, for what was a magnificent
performance at the Nirvana MTV Unplugged. I knew I had
witnessed music history. The atmosphere there was so electric from
(07:56):
the moment we walked in, the stage was beauty full
set with candles and flowers and that iconic Nirvana logo backdrop.
You could you could feel the anticipation in the air,
and then Kurt Christ and Dave walked out and the
crowd just erupted.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Rob Barnett, So, Rob, thanks for being on this moment
of taking a walk where we are celebrating the MTV
Nirvana unplugged in New York from November of ninety three.
Now you had an eleven year run at MTV and
VH one. What were you doing in particular at this
(08:37):
time at MTV?
Speaker 7 (08:40):
I was a lucky, lucky boy because years after programming
some of America's finest rock radio stations all around the country,
I got to MTV in the late eighties, and that
was a time when it was still all music, and
I was one of the heads of programming at MTV.
(09:01):
So my job, along with just five other human beings,
every single Monday morning, was to sit in a big
honkin conference room where they would show us every single
music video that was submitted that week, and then, like
Christians to the Lions, we'd either do thumbs up or
(09:26):
thumbs down. Three of us were the music programmers. We
were you know, we had those radio chops, right, And
then the other three people in the room were called
Taar Talent and Artist Relations. They were there with equally
great you know, music experience and programmer chops, but they
were representing what the labels and the artists were interested in.
(09:50):
And then the genius of the chairman of then Viacom,
Tom Preston, was that the six of us would fight
right because there were only a few slots that would
be added to that playlist every week.
Speaker 8 (10:03):
So that was that was the first part of the job.
Second part of the job was that I sat in
an office that had four people that worked under me,
and the twenty four hour pages of a full day
programming log would get passed up the line each day
from the junior person on the staff up to me
(10:26):
and we would we would literally, you know, go over
every minute of every hour of everything that was on MTV.
We programmed the thing like a radio station with pictures.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
So do you remember who was really at the core
of the person that sort of you know, brought this
idea forward about Nirvana doing this performance.
Speaker 8 (10:50):
Well, it's a great story because you know, success has
many mothers and many fathers, but there is absolutely no question.
If you're an Nirvana fan, then you need to know
if you don't already about who Amy Finnerty is, because
back then, you know, remember the old days when we
(11:11):
would go to our job and have to show up
at nine a m especially on a Monday, Remember those days.
Buzz Yeah, even if we had the coolest jobs in
the world, you fucking have to go to your job
and show up at nine o'clock in the morning. And
the funniest thing about MTV back then is some of
us even wore suits, which just makes you want to
(11:32):
throw up now when you think about it. You know,
remember when radio guys like we started to wear like
sport jackets and ties and we all look like idiots. Well,
it was a little bit like that. And on many
many Monday mornings, when four out of the five people
that worked for me would show up, the desk down
(11:55):
at the end of the line, Amy Finnerty's desk would
be empty on many many Monday mornings, and I would
look at all my guys and I would say to
Kurt Stephik, one of her best buddies, one of the
great programmers of MTV where the fuck is Amy? And
Kurt would give me some sort of doggate my homework cover, like, oh, yeah,
(12:15):
she's out of town and she wanted you to know
that she missed her flight, and I go, well, great,
when is she going to be here? Oh, the the plane.
You know, I think this afternoon, many many weeks when
Amy wasn't where she should have been at Times Square. No,
we weren't even in Times Square. We were at Columbus
(12:35):
Circle in New York. Back then, Amy was in Seattle,
and for MTV's purposes, Amy Finnerty was busy discovering Nirvana.
And when she came back on one certain week and
started playing that music for the senior leadership team of MTV,
(12:57):
the world changed because if you look at the context
of what was happening in music, and especially what was
happening at MTV. Late eighties, we had a hair band phase.
Early nineties, we had a boy band phase.
Speaker 9 (13:17):
And you know, I was a little sad during the
boy band phase because I thought I was working at
the pop culture center of the universe, and I of
course wanted to be working at the rock and roll
center of the universe.
Speaker 8 (13:35):
But we were a little busy for a few years
playing Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch and you know,
Backstreet Boys in sync. That's what was happening a few
moments before we heard Nirvana, and everyone in the world
knows that that not only changed the course of rock forever,
(13:59):
we can now say, decades and decades later, that that
moment was the last major innovation in the story of rock.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
And when you listen today to Unplugged in New York
with Nirvana, tell me as you reflect on that, how
you feel about the performance, how it stands up now.
Speaker 8 (14:26):
Well, it's great to get the invitation to reconnect with you,
especially to talk about this topic and this album, because
I spent the last couple of nights listening again to
that magic moment on this earth, and you can't listen
to it without the agony and the pain of losing Kurt.
(14:49):
When that happened, my office was seated next to Kurt Loder.
For many years, Kurt and I worked together on dozens
of the MTV docs that were called rockumentaries. But when
we lost Kurt not long after MTV unplugged, Kurt was
(15:10):
our Walter Cronkite, and this was one of the great
moments in American history, in world history, to lose one
of the true geniuses in the history of music. When
you listen to Nirvana unplugged, you're hearing the marriage of pop, rock, punk,
(15:34):
and this ineffable section of American music that took something
that was in the same breath, raw, melodic and pop
that it almost doesn't mathematically add up in your mind
(15:55):
except for the fact that its strengthen its power is
in its uniqueness and in its ability to just rip
right through your soul and demand that you pay attention
to something that is completely unlike anything else. I mean,
I'm old enough to have spent a lot of years
(16:18):
at CBGB's and the punk clubs in the mid and
late seventies in New York. This was certainly the child
of that, but it took it in a direction that
punk could never really get to, or was never designed
to get to. Nirvana took it to the top of
(16:40):
the mountain.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
It's brilliant. Thank you, Rob, so great to be with
you again.
Speaker 8 (16:46):
Yeah, thanks man.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
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a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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