September 16, 2025 • 31 mins
Join Buzz Knight with singer songwriter Jonah Kagen. Jonah is known for his engaging and honest songwriting style blending his storytelling with Americana and folk roots. His new album is called "Sunflowers and Leather" with songs that include "You Again" and "Burn Me" and he is actively touring in support of the new music.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Taking a walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Imagine the rhythm of your steps matching the heartbeat of
a city. I'm buzznight and today on the Taking a
Walk Podcast, I'm joined by a voice whose lyrics may
catch you by surprise and whose melodies make you want
to keep wandering.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
His name is Jonah Kagan. And if you listen to this.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Podcast, you know I like turning you on and being
turned on to artists.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
That I just think are really neat.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Jonah's songs feel like conversations that you want to keep having. Honest, unfiltered,
a little restless, but certainly honest. He's a storyteller who
is making things happen now all by simply staying true
to his own mission. So we're going to take a
word from our sponsors, and then we're going to talk
to Jonah next on taking a Walk. Taking a Walk,
(00:53):
We're with Jonah Kagan on the Taking a Walk Podcast. Hello, Jonah,
hey man, how you doing doing fantastic? I'm doing one
of my favorite things, which is talking to creative people
about their work.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
We're going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Sunflowers and leather, and we got a lot to unpack here.
But before I get to that, I like asking this
little opening question. You know, since we do call this
podcast taking a walk, I do like when possible to
be walking in person, but since we're not together either way,
(01:30):
I would ask the question, is there somebody that you wish,
living or dead, you could take a walk with? And
maybe where would you take that walk?
Speaker 4 (01:41):
That's a great question. This is a peaceful podcast. I
can feel it already. This is like I feel like
I'm walking through clouds right now.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
This is amazing.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
I would say as of the last thirty seconds, I
would say you buzz. But before that I would have
said Matthew McConaughey.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Okay, and I'm not going to be able to beat
that one.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
That's That's one that would be, no doubt, very interesting,
and I think it would be varied since he is
such a diverse character for sure, you know.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Yeah, he his book actually inspired a lot of this,
the journey that I took in making this album, and
I hope I get to meet him at some point.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Great. It's an incredible journey, it really is.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
And I like talking about influences on the podcast, and
I do want to start with one that even before
I read up on you and I listened to your music.
I could alate a pretty hefty gamble that this particular
artist was an influence, and it's one that has come
(02:51):
up a couple of times with some other singer songwriters
that have been on the podcast. I'm teasing you, but
I know you know what you've got to be talking.
Oh you know who I'm gonna mention for sure. This
artist came up with the great Steve Earle as somebody
that he palaled around with in his career. It also
(03:11):
came up with Todd Snyder as well.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
Yeah, I know who you're gonna say.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And also a young man by the name of Will.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Pequin who is I know him? You know?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Will I do?
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Will?
Speaker 5 (03:27):
Actually, that's wild. I Will. When I first put out my.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Very first song, I put it out through this third
party label who was basically just interested in.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
Just helping new artists.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
And I think he took like one percent of the
master or something, you know, tiny and was just helping
me put it out. And he was working with Will
as well. And Will it's just an awesome guitar player.
And I was a sweet kid and I got to
meet him for like a brief second.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
So that's cool that you bring him up.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I've known Will since he was five years old. I'll
just leave with that right now. Yeah, because I'm a
family friend.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
But anyway, okay, so who is the person that is
the influence?
Speaker 5 (04:11):
See now I feel now I'm scared. I think I
want you to say it just in case I was wrong,
because I know I want to come out and say.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
All right, well it's Towns van Zant.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
That's what I thought. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, which is so cool that it comes from so
many different places, all back to Towns.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
How did you first discover Towns and what impact did
he make on you?
Speaker 4 (04:34):
I was deep in the Alan Lomax sort of like discography,
and I kind of went on this sort of terror
before I was making this album, where I was really
interested in the cataloging of Americana music and folk music
(04:58):
and the origins.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
And I really I said, I hadn't.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I wasn't.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I was kind of talking at my butt a little
bit about certain stuff, and I was like, I can't
sit here and call myself any semblance of a folk
artist if I.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
Don't know you know, the history.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
And I this is like a few years ago, and
I started kind of digging in and ended up in
the Laurel Canyon world, and I just fell so deep
into this rabbit hole. And then somebody told me about
Towns van Zand and around the same time, I was
discovering that he was an inspiration for a lot of
(05:39):
these guys that then defined Americana and defined folk music
in the United States. And I was like, how have
I not heard of this guy before? And he was
such like I found so much beauty and also pain
and just power and emotion in the fact that he
(06:00):
was so posthumously influential and that he lived just this
really troubled life and never got to see you know,
he had like a little moment with Poncho and Lefty
and a few other things, but he never got to
see the fruits of his labor in the sense that
like he really defined a genre and inspired you know,
(06:23):
like a Neil Young, or there would be no Neil
Young without Towns. There was always something that was really,
I don't know, quietly emotional about the fact that the
only reason why I am able to say anything is
technically because of Towns, And I just I feel like
(06:47):
this is like the first, you know, guy to get
up there and be a man and just air out
his pain in a way that like was like with
his words and with it, you know. And obviously there's
is blues that's part of that as well, But I
just I found so much inspiration in that in that
story alone, And that was before I even listened to
(07:08):
his music. And then I listened to his music, and
I was just like, I think one thing that I
really listened for now and I'm listening to music is like,
do I believe what somebody's saying? And which is not
easy for a lot of people, but I think that's
that's like what folk music, Americano music is is like
you have something to say in a voice and you're
(07:28):
really saying it, and Towns I was like, every word,
every word this guy says, is I believe what he's saying?
Felt like I was having a conversation with him. So
I think it was a combination of like the historical
context and the fact that he just had such a
voice and that I believed what he was saying.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
I think that was where I just drew so much
inspiration from that.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I love and appreciate that you are, you know, steeped
in understanding the history, but all so obviously very much
in the present.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Talk about some of the other musicians that have really.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
You know, at its core, at you know, a younger age,
that really impacted you and kind of cemented that you
would have a career in music.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Well, the other one that I thought you might say
was Jason isbel I thought you might mention Jason Isbell,
But he which is more more of a songwriting inspiration
than anything.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
He He's just.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Another perfect example for me of somebody who has something
to say and and I believe him. His his words
are very inspiring to me. But beyond that, I probably
my most influential artist was this dude, Andy McKee, guitar
player Andy McKee, because I was a guitarist first, so
(08:55):
my played jazz and blues grown up, and then I
found Andy.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
And Andy is.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
A fingerstyle guitar, acoustic guitar player who plays in a
bunch of different tunings and he's got like bowed fred
forwards things like that, and he was just using the
guitar in a way that I had never seen before,
and it was so beautiful, and I was like, I
want to make my guitar sound like this. So this
(09:23):
is when I was little, maybe you know, I think
I found him when I was ten or eleven something
like that, nine or ten and I got rid of
all the electric guitars that I had, bought one acoustic
and started messing around with it. And you can still
hear for guitarists, especially like if you When I give
(09:47):
that reference, everybody's like, oh, yeah, of course, like of
course that's an influence for you because.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
You can really hear him and how I play. But yeah,
that was that was He.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Was probably my most influential and then nowadays I have
a lot more songwriting influences, like the jasonisbell Is, Adrian
Lanker is a huge one. Yeah, people who have have
some have a voice something to say. Drew Holcomb is
a great one. That was the one that I listened
to and now a friend of mine and somebody I've
gotten to work with, and yeah, I think there's a
(10:18):
real community around that type of music, which is which
is just based around around your voice. And that was
also a through line in the Matthew McConaughey in Green Lights.
It was like this notion that you know, there are
all these stories, but this.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
Isn't like a book. This is just I just got
something to say.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
It's very simple, but I found so much like I'm
drawn to people who have something to say and who
really have something to say. So that's what's always been
and to me, Andy was that on the guitar I felt.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I always felt that, Well, you just laid out really
the core of what I'm doing with this podcast and
the others that I'm involved with that I produce. It's
that everybody has a story to be told. And I
echo with you also the fact that you know there
is this you know, rising star group of artists, uh
(11:21):
like yourself and Luke Tyler Shelton is another one who
are just have something to say and are you know,
finding a way to say it with this great historical
respect but also for you know, an understanding of where
things are today. So you're you're really speaking to why
(11:44):
this became a passion and a love for me, you know,
coming out of my.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
My radio career.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I was in a radio management side and had on
air and all that stuff. But this is coming back,
you know, full circle to my to my roots. I
do want to ask you.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
It's awesome.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
What was it like when this massive moment in your
career called God Needs The Devil Happened, which you know,
just became number one alternative radio hit and big streams.
I mean, did it take you by surprise? First of all,
(12:21):
how big it became and how did you deal with that?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
The wildest thing.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Is that it's still it's kind of actively happening.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Like it it went to number one on the radio,
which was nuts, but it was it was a slow
burn to get there.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
And then it also.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Is just now having its peak days on streaming platforms
and things like that. And I'm just now starting to
play shows post that moment. And I say a moment
in this, you know, in the sense of a year
and a half type of moment, but and it's I'm
(13:03):
just witnessing like kind of right now the impact of
that and radio had had a huge part in that
because radio I started visiting stations where they were playing
the song and there were real people there who were
listening and showing up and being so kind. And I
got to listen to these people's stories and they would
(13:28):
all tell me about what the song meant to them,
and like there was a different there was a difference
in that community versus anything I had had before. It
just became a lot more real, and it is becoming
a lot more real. These are real people, not that
there weren't real people before there were, but it was,
you know, like you look at it's easy to look
(13:49):
at numbers on a on a streaming platform or on
a social media or whatever it is and not be
able to put it into context how many people that
actually is, because it's not It is people, but it's
not really people. Like if you get a million views
on a TikTok, like a million people is so many people,
(14:10):
but that's like a million. You might get a couple
thousand people who are like, wow, I am a real
person watching this.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
The rest are like nice, and then they keep going.
And so I think the.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Thing with God Needs a Devil was that it was
there was like a real community, and it felt like
a very tangible thing that was happening. And I decided
kind of when that was happening.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
The way that I coped with.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
It, I guess, was like, oh my god, there are
real people here. This is like an opportunity. And I
think I've always said my passion is not in music,
it's in people, and music is the vehicle by which
I get to kind of fulfill that passion.
Speaker 5 (14:55):
And that was what changed my life.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Was this like, now there are people, and I'm going
to dedicate my life to being in service of these people,
whoever they are, and I will be here as long
as they will have me. And I think that's what
you know, Americana is. Also Americana is like music and
service of people. It's somebody trying to find connection with
real people and going and meeting them, and you know,
(15:22):
and I haven't really even seen what that looks like
just yet. I've only seen it in limited capacities, in
like people showing up to tours that I'm supporting. And
I've done a couple of headline shows since the song
came out and those all sold out and we're these
really emotional things. But I think next year I'll really
(15:42):
get to see it. But I just want to be
out on the road all the time because I just
want to go see these people and I want to
go meet all these people who have been kind enough
to show up and share their stories with me. And yeah,
so I think it's just adds a whole new layer
of fulfillment for me.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
We'll be right back more the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Let's talk about the origins of Sunflowers and the Leather.
It's pretty incredible. Before I get into asking you to
tell the story of your brand new truck and your
airstream and where.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
It led you.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Have you ever seen the movie? And if you haven't,
I recommend it. Have you ever seen Lost in America?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
No?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Okay, Yeah, it's Albert Brooks, it's at his finest and
it's a different storyline than yours, but it does involve
him traveling across the country and some version of a
airstream or and it's it's brilliant. It's a brilliant, brilliant movie.
(16:53):
But so this was not a normal adventure that you took.
This kind of unfold. Can you tell the story that
led to Sunflowers and Leather?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
I can?
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Absolutely. I need to watch that movie also.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
That sounds great, although it does feel it feels good
knowing that.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
I have already completed that's my dog going crazy.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Dogs are welcome. Dogs are what's your dog's name?
Speaker 5 (17:21):
This is Mars.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Mars.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
Yep, she's very excited.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Oh hello Mars.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Though you never know at any moment, Elma and Sadie
might be barking in the background here because the delivery
just came from Amazon or something, so hello Mars.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Anyway, it's I always think this is funny.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
There is.
Speaker 5 (17:44):
I met this.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Girl when I was out on the road and she
was talking about how she was on her way to
Alaska and the reason why she was on her way
to Alaska was because she loved into the wild.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
And I was like, did you finish and she is like,
I made it about halfway through.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah, you made it halfway through it the wild and
then and then.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
Just jet it off for Alaska without getting it. I
was like, maybe you should, yeah, go to Alaska and
then come back and finish the movie.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
So I'm hoping that whatever Lost in America ends up
being well, well, I've already done the trip, so now
I feel comfortable in watching any movie like that.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I just said, tell you one thing I lost in
America and then the lesson there, and you'll understand that
after you watch the movie, do not ever lose your
nest egg in Las Vegas.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
That's all I'll say.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
Okay, this is what I mean.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
But this also I will tell you, like, there's always something.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
And this was the impetus for my trip.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
To answer that question is there's always something that goes
wrong or something happens and it's a story. And like
I didn't I had stories like.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
That in a limited capacity. But I was like, what
would it be like to.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Just intentionally go do something knowing in my head like
I know something's gonna go wrong. I'm gonna get eaten
by a bear, or I'm gonna, you know, eat a
poisonous berry or.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Something like that.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
I'm gonna lose my nest egg in Vegas. I just
I know something is going to happen. But what if
I just went out and lived that way knowing that
that's going to happen, and just see what happened, see
what comes out of it. I was like, man, what
a meaningful album that is, because that the album at
that point would just be a byproduct. And that's exactly
(19:30):
what it was. I went through a breakup. I had
been feeling cooped up for a while. I was like,
all right, it's time to do this, and almost immediately, Yeah,
I bought a new truck and a new airstream and
almost immediately, like I think it was like a couple
of weeks in, I was towing it and totaled it.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
I totaled my truck.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
I got an accident, total my truck, did major damage
to the airstream. And I'm sitting there, like you know,
on the highway and South Carolina and all these people
are driving by. My car's just like mangled, and all
these people are driving by. You can't park there, you know,
yelling stuff at me and all this stuff.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
This is what I wanted, This is what I asked for.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
I got my wish.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
Yeah, I got my wish. And you know, I'm uncomfortable
while while I'm in it.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
But I also there was a moment where I was
just sitting there just laughing, and I was like, well
here it is, you know. And I had so many
different moment long story short there. I got humbled by
the universe pretty hard there and bought a used truck
and used airstream and converted it myself. I was like,
(20:41):
let's do this the right way, and then went back
out on the road and it was good for the
next year.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Well not good, but you know what I mean. It
was I didn't total.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Anything, and you built a studio in it.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
I did, yes, sir.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Yeah, So I forgot to elaborate on that I pulled
out kind of the back line lounge in the airstream
and just turned it into a little mobile rig and
decided that whatever was going to happen, I was going
to just write about it, and so that was my song.
(21:13):
The Reaper was like the first thing that I wrote
after I totaled my truck and you know, got humbled.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
It was like it's time to whatever.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
But that was the first first like thing, and then
I just decided I was going to do that for
as long as it took to get the album out,
and I went out and lived that way for about
a year, met some incredible people and had some insane experiences,
and then the album, Yeah, it.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Was just really just a byproduct of that.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
I had so many more stories where I was sitting
there just like, well I wanted this, and you know,
some insane inconvenience or whatever. But then eventually an album
was born and we went back. After the album was done,
I took a film crew out on the same route
(22:03):
that I took and showed them all the spots where
I wrote and recorded the music and did little acoustic
performances in those spots and.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Did like interviews in different places.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
So you can actually see where everything happened, and that comes.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
Out with the album as well. It's like a half hour.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
That's awesome. Now were you were? You were all alone
on this trip.
Speaker 5 (22:27):
I had, I had my dog, I had Mars, who's.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Over there and after she's sleeping, but after causing a ruckus.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
But yeah, I had mar.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
I got Mars about halfway through, so it was just
me for a bit and then and then Marsh joined
the party.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
That speaks to the introspective tone, the you know, the
you know, there's a weariness for sure that comes through.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
I want to ask you about a couple of songs.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
First of all, my ashes turning white speak about that's
that's quite a song.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
Thank you. That was the last song that I wrote.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Actually, funny enough, it's the first song on the album,
but the last song that I wrote and possibly my
favorite song on the album. I wanted to intro the
album with just like this kind of it was almost
like a prologue and then it turned into like a
real proper song. Yeah, there is absolutely a weariness. It's
(23:30):
I spent a lot of time in my head on
this trip, and that song. I was looking at the
full album minus that one. Of course, Like before I
wrote it, I was looking at the full album and
just seeing I could see the year and like the
emotional kind of trip that I took along with the
actual trip, and I was just realizing that there's so
(23:53):
much I wanted to kind of concisely explain why I
did this, And basically the message in that song was
just like, I'm not.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Afraid of dying.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
This thing is as much as it is driven by
a love for life and my love for being here,
it's also deeply driven by a fear of not doing
enough while I am on the earth, I'm terrified of
that and that when I do die, I won't last
for a while. I think everything just kind of gets
forgotten naturally, and there's just a lot of sadness in that.
(24:27):
And again you can see why I connect so much
with Towns. Van Zant's is this sort of like weariness
in his music as well. So that song was really
just like of me opening up the last bit of
this album and my experienced people, which was just like, listen,
(24:48):
this might look really cool, and it was really cool,
and there's a lot of it that's really special, but like,
I'm terrified of not doing enough while I'm here. So
this is me giving you everything. And it kind of
ends on this, like me just begging what I'm like,
You'll be all that's left of me. I'm talking about
the songs. I'm talking about the people that are listening.
(25:10):
I'm talking about my family, I'm talking about whatever. And
so when I died, just don't let me die, please,
And I think as much as there is fear in
like I don't want to be.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
Forgotten, that's the selfish part of it.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
But the non selfish part is like, don't stop listening,
don't stop feeling, don't stop just please, you know, surrender
to the music and to the experience, because that was
what I did with this album.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And since you mentioned The Reaper, which I love as well,
I mean I listened to The Reaper, and I imagine
you at a stark place somewhere in the middle of nowhere,
probably just contemplating struggles and challenges and where life is heading.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
But talk a little bit more about the Reaper.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Yeah, that's one of those that's like very when my
ashes turned whit. It's a little more vague and kind
of like introspective, and you can you can take it
different ways. The Reaper is just exactly what happened. It
was like I woke up, decided I was cooped up,
I'm going to Montana. I'm buying all this new stuff.
I'm gonna go like, hell yeah, I'm gonna go do
all these things. Bang totaled my car and I'm like
(26:22):
and once that happened, I'm sitting there, I'm like, what
am I doing? This is the universe saying is slow up, child,
You're gonna get burned. You know, like you're gonna live
a long, long life. You don't have to do everything
right now. And then I was just kind of recounting
everything else. It was like, I so I just talked
about a couple of every All the verses in there
(26:43):
are real stories and things that happened and moments that
I got ahead of myself. And then life was kind
of like, slow down, what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Pick one of the other songs and kind of walk
us through how your songwriting process work. You know, pick
one of your other eight favorites off of it, but
pick one or two and take us inside the songwriting
process for you as an artist.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
See find one. I want to find one that's kind
of deeper. They all, they all have something a little
bit different. One of my favorites is Anvil. There's a
song called Anvil on there and Anvil was it really depends.
(27:31):
I don't I don't really work with anyone because I
can't get all the way there for my project. I
love working with people for their project, but I can't.
I can't quite say exactly what I want to say
with other people. So my process is usually it almost
always just starts with me and a guitar and I'm
(27:52):
just noodling some stuff. Sometimes it might start with like
just a word or words or something, but I am
my one thing is I cannot be in the emotion
that I'm writing about when I write it.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
I don't know how people do that.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
Like when people are like sad and then they write
a song, it blows my mind.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
I have no idea how people are able to do that.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
If I'm sad, I'm sitting there just like staring at
the wall, Like the last thing I want to do
is talk about it. And so I once it's aged
a little bit, I'll be thinking about a certain thing.
And in that song particular, I was thinking about, like, man,
what a may after my breakup?
Speaker 5 (28:34):
That i'd gone through. I was like, man, what a
what a mess? What a mess this all is?
Speaker 4 (28:40):
And this is just for another lesson, you know, I'm like,
not every lesson can be worth all this mess, right,
And that was that was like the thought. And once
I had that, I was just kind of like I
knew that I was going to be talking about something
kind of sarcastically that I was really true, And.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
So that was the lie.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
It was the this lesson can't be worth all of
this goddamn miss that the song just kind of built
itself around all of that.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
From there, I usually just play and talk like I'll
just be playing and.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
It kind of word vomit and I've I've found that
that's the best way to write when you're trying to
actually say something, because.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
It's just talking.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
It's just I want you, I want whoever's listening to
just feel like I'm they're sitting there talking to me,
and eventually it takes shape and you know, if something
doesn't make sense, then I'll change the word.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
But it really is just me just doing.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Random stuff and talking with like one sort of theme
in the middle.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
So you'll be taking it out on the road soon.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Oh yeah, Oh yeah, I'm very excited for this album
to come out so that I can.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Play these songs in context.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
I've been playing like a lot the new stuff for
the last year or two that is on the album,
but I'm excited for people.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
To hear the actual recorded versions.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
And yeah, I'll be on the road for pretty much
the rest of this year and then hopefully all of
next year I'll be doing it. I'll be out as
long as as long as they'll have me.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Oh, that's great.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
The work is masterful, Sunflowers and Leather. It's brilliant. I
can't wait for people to check it out in person
or thank you through every platform.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
And it's an honor to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Jonah, congratulations on everything. And it's only the beginning.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
Baby, thank you so much. Buzz, this is great. I
appreciate you.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Thank you, and thank you. Mars.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
She's way too asleep now, she's over there one you see.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
I'm sure she would say thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Also. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking
a Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your
friends and follow us so you never miss an episode.
Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
podcasts and wherever you get your podcasts
Taking a walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Imagine the rhythm of your steps matching the heartbeat of
a city. I'm buzznight and today on the Taking a
Walk Podcast, I'm joined by a voice whose lyrics may
catch you by surprise and whose melodies make you want
to keep wandering.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
His name is Jonah Kagan. And if you listen to this.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Podcast, you know I like turning you on and being
turned on to artists.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
That I just think are really neat.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Jonah's songs feel like conversations that you want to keep having. Honest, unfiltered,
a little restless, but certainly honest. He's a storyteller who
is making things happen now all by simply staying true
to his own mission. So we're going to take a
word from our sponsors, and then we're going to talk
to Jonah next on taking a Walk. Taking a Walk,
(00:53):
We're with Jonah Kagan on the Taking a Walk Podcast. Hello, Jonah,
hey man, how you doing doing fantastic? I'm doing one
of my favorite things, which is talking to creative people
about their work.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
We're going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Sunflowers and leather, and we got a lot to unpack here.
But before I get to that, I like asking this
little opening question. You know, since we do call this
podcast taking a walk, I do like when possible to
be walking in person, but since we're not together either way,
(01:30):
I would ask the question, is there somebody that you wish,
living or dead, you could take a walk with? And
maybe where would you take that walk?
Speaker 4 (01:41):
That's a great question. This is a peaceful podcast. I
can feel it already. This is like I feel like
I'm walking through clouds right now.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
This is amazing.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
I would say as of the last thirty seconds, I
would say you buzz. But before that I would have
said Matthew McConaughey.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Okay, and I'm not going to be able to beat
that one.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
That's That's one that would be, no doubt, very interesting,
and I think it would be varied since he is
such a diverse character for sure, you know.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Yeah, he his book actually inspired a lot of this,
the journey that I took in making this album, and
I hope I get to meet him at some point.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Great. It's an incredible journey, it really is.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
And I like talking about influences on the podcast, and
I do want to start with one that even before
I read up on you and I listened to your music.
I could alate a pretty hefty gamble that this particular
artist was an influence, and it's one that has come
(02:51):
up a couple of times with some other singer songwriters
that have been on the podcast. I'm teasing you, but
I know you know what you've got to be talking.
Oh you know who I'm gonna mention for sure. This
artist came up with the great Steve Earle as somebody
that he palaled around with in his career. It also
(03:11):
came up with Todd Snyder as well.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
Yeah, I know who you're gonna say.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And also a young man by the name of Will.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Pequin who is I know him? You know?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Will I do?
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Will?
Speaker 5 (03:27):
Actually, that's wild. I Will. When I first put out my.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Very first song, I put it out through this third
party label who was basically just interested in.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
Just helping new artists.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
And I think he took like one percent of the
master or something, you know, tiny and was just helping
me put it out. And he was working with Will
as well. And Will it's just an awesome guitar player.
And I was a sweet kid and I got to
meet him for like a brief second.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
So that's cool that you bring him up.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I've known Will since he was five years old. I'll
just leave with that right now. Yeah, because I'm a
family friend.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
But anyway, okay, so who is the person that is
the influence?
Speaker 5 (04:11):
See now I feel now I'm scared. I think I
want you to say it just in case I was wrong,
because I know I want to come out and say.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
All right, well it's Towns van Zant.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
That's what I thought. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, which is so cool that it comes from so
many different places, all back to Towns.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
How did you first discover Towns and what impact did
he make on you?
Speaker 4 (04:34):
I was deep in the Alan Lomax sort of like discography,
and I kind of went on this sort of terror
before I was making this album, where I was really
interested in the cataloging of Americana music and folk music
(04:58):
and the origins.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
And I really I said, I hadn't.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I wasn't.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
I was kind of talking at my butt a little
bit about certain stuff, and I was like, I can't
sit here and call myself any semblance of a folk
artist if I.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
Don't know you know, the history.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
And I this is like a few years ago, and
I started kind of digging in and ended up in
the Laurel Canyon world, and I just fell so deep
into this rabbit hole. And then somebody told me about
Towns van Zand and around the same time, I was
discovering that he was an inspiration for a lot of
(05:39):
these guys that then defined Americana and defined folk music
in the United States. And I was like, how have
I not heard of this guy before? And he was
such like I found so much beauty and also pain
and just power and emotion in the fact that he
(06:00):
was so posthumously influential and that he lived just this
really troubled life and never got to see you know,
he had like a little moment with Poncho and Lefty
and a few other things, but he never got to
see the fruits of his labor in the sense that
like he really defined a genre and inspired you know,
(06:23):
like a Neil Young, or there would be no Neil
Young without Towns. There was always something that was really,
I don't know, quietly emotional about the fact that the
only reason why I am able to say anything is
technically because of Towns, And I just I feel like
(06:47):
this is like the first, you know, guy to get
up there and be a man and just air out
his pain in a way that like was like with
his words and with it, you know. And obviously there's
is blues that's part of that as well, But I
just I found so much inspiration in that in that
story alone, And that was before I even listened to
(07:08):
his music. And then I listened to his music, and
I was just like, I think one thing that I
really listened for now and I'm listening to music is like,
do I believe what somebody's saying? And which is not
easy for a lot of people, but I think that's
that's like what folk music, Americano music is is like
you have something to say in a voice and you're
(07:28):
really saying it, and Towns I was like, every word,
every word this guy says, is I believe what he's saying?
Felt like I was having a conversation with him. So
I think it was a combination of like the historical
context and the fact that he just had such a
voice and that I believed what he was saying.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
I think that was where I just drew so much
inspiration from that.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I love and appreciate that you are, you know, steeped
in understanding the history, but all so obviously very much
in the present.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Talk about some of the other musicians that have really.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
You know, at its core, at you know, a younger age,
that really impacted you and kind of cemented that you
would have a career in music.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Well, the other one that I thought you might say
was Jason isbel I thought you might mention Jason Isbell,
But he which is more more of a songwriting inspiration
than anything.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
He He's just.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Another perfect example for me of somebody who has something
to say and and I believe him. His his words
are very inspiring to me. But beyond that, I probably
my most influential artist was this dude, Andy McKee, guitar
player Andy McKee, because I was a guitarist first, so
(08:55):
my played jazz and blues grown up, and then I
found Andy.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
And Andy is.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
A fingerstyle guitar, acoustic guitar player who plays in a
bunch of different tunings and he's got like bowed fred
forwards things like that, and he was just using the
guitar in a way that I had never seen before,
and it was so beautiful, and I was like, I
want to make my guitar sound like this. So this
(09:23):
is when I was little, maybe you know, I think
I found him when I was ten or eleven something
like that, nine or ten and I got rid of
all the electric guitars that I had, bought one acoustic
and started messing around with it. And you can still
hear for guitarists, especially like if you When I give
(09:47):
that reference, everybody's like, oh, yeah, of course, like of
course that's an influence for you because.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
You can really hear him and how I play. But yeah,
that was that was He.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Was probably my most influential and then nowadays I have
a lot more songwriting influences, like the jasonisbell Is, Adrian
Lanker is a huge one. Yeah, people who have have
some have a voice something to say. Drew Holcomb is
a great one. That was the one that I listened
to and now a friend of mine and somebody I've
gotten to work with, and yeah, I think there's a
(10:18):
real community around that type of music, which is which
is just based around around your voice. And that was
also a through line in the Matthew McConaughey in Green Lights.
It was like this notion that you know, there are
all these stories, but this.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
Isn't like a book. This is just I just got
something to say.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
It's very simple, but I found so much like I'm
drawn to people who have something to say and who
really have something to say. So that's what's always been
and to me, Andy was that on the guitar I felt.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I always felt that, Well, you just laid out really
the core of what I'm doing with this podcast and
the others that I'm involved with that I produce. It's
that everybody has a story to be told. And I
echo with you also the fact that you know there
is this you know, rising star group of artists, uh
(11:21):
like yourself and Luke Tyler Shelton is another one who
are just have something to say and are you know,
finding a way to say it with this great historical
respect but also for you know, an understanding of where
things are today. So you're you're really speaking to why
(11:44):
this became a passion and a love for me, you know,
coming out of my.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
My radio career.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I was in a radio management side and had on
air and all that stuff. But this is coming back,
you know, full circle to my to my roots. I
do want to ask you.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
It's awesome.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
What was it like when this massive moment in your
career called God Needs The Devil Happened, which you know,
just became number one alternative radio hit and big streams.
I mean, did it take you by surprise? First of all,
(12:21):
how big it became and how did you deal with that?
Speaker 3 (12:25):
The wildest thing.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
Is that it's still it's kind of actively happening.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Like it it went to number one on the radio,
which was nuts, but it was it was a slow
burn to get there.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
And then it also.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Is just now having its peak days on streaming platforms
and things like that. And I'm just now starting to
play shows post that moment. And I say a moment
in this, you know, in the sense of a year
and a half type of moment, but and it's I'm
(13:03):
just witnessing like kind of right now the impact of
that and radio had had a huge part in that
because radio I started visiting stations where they were playing
the song and there were real people there who were
listening and showing up and being so kind. And I
got to listen to these people's stories and they would
(13:28):
all tell me about what the song meant to them,
and like there was a different there was a difference
in that community versus anything I had had before. It
just became a lot more real, and it is becoming
a lot more real. These are real people, not that
there weren't real people before there were, but it was,
you know, like you look at it's easy to look
(13:49):
at numbers on a on a streaming platform or on
a social media or whatever it is and not be
able to put it into context how many people that
actually is, because it's not It is people, but it's
not really people. Like if you get a million views
on a TikTok, like a million people is so many people,
(14:10):
but that's like a million. You might get a couple
thousand people who are like, wow, I am a real
person watching this.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
The rest are like nice, and then they keep going.
And so I think the.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Thing with God Needs a Devil was that it was
there was like a real community, and it felt like
a very tangible thing that was happening. And I decided
kind of when that was happening.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
The way that I coped with.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
It, I guess, was like, oh my god, there are
real people here. This is like an opportunity. And I
think I've always said my passion is not in music,
it's in people, and music is the vehicle by which
I get to kind of fulfill that passion.
Speaker 5 (14:55):
And that was what changed my life.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Was this like, now there are people, and I'm going
to dedicate my life to being in service of these people,
whoever they are, and I will be here as long
as they will have me. And I think that's what
you know, Americana is. Also Americana is like music and
service of people. It's somebody trying to find connection with
real people and going and meeting them, and you know,
(15:22):
and I haven't really even seen what that looks like
just yet. I've only seen it in limited capacities, in
like people showing up to tours that I'm supporting. And
I've done a couple of headline shows since the song
came out and those all sold out and we're these
really emotional things. But I think next year I'll really
(15:42):
get to see it. But I just want to be
out on the road all the time because I just
want to go see these people and I want to
go meet all these people who have been kind enough
to show up and share their stories with me. And yeah,
so I think it's just adds a whole new layer
of fulfillment for me.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
We'll be right back more the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Let's talk about the origins of Sunflowers and the Leather.
It's pretty incredible. Before I get into asking you to
tell the story of your brand new truck and your
airstream and where.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
It led you.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Have you ever seen the movie? And if you haven't,
I recommend it. Have you ever seen Lost in America?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
No?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Okay, Yeah, it's Albert Brooks, it's at his finest and
it's a different storyline than yours, but it does involve
him traveling across the country and some version of a
airstream or and it's it's brilliant. It's a brilliant, brilliant movie.
(16:53):
But so this was not a normal adventure that you took.
This kind of unfold. Can you tell the story that
led to Sunflowers and Leather?
Speaker 3 (17:05):
I can?
Speaker 5 (17:06):
Absolutely. I need to watch that movie also.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
That sounds great, although it does feel it feels good
knowing that.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
I have already completed that's my dog going crazy.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Dogs are welcome. Dogs are what's your dog's name?
Speaker 5 (17:21):
This is Mars.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Mars.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
Yep, she's very excited.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Oh hello Mars.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Though you never know at any moment, Elma and Sadie
might be barking in the background here because the delivery
just came from Amazon or something, so hello Mars.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Anyway, it's I always think this is funny.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
There is.
Speaker 5 (17:44):
I met this.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Girl when I was out on the road and she
was talking about how she was on her way to
Alaska and the reason why she was on her way
to Alaska was because she loved into the wild.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
And I was like, did you finish and she is like,
I made it about halfway through.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah, you made it halfway through it the wild and
then and then.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
Just jet it off for Alaska without getting it. I
was like, maybe you should, yeah, go to Alaska and
then come back and finish the movie.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
So I'm hoping that whatever Lost in America ends up
being well, well, I've already done the trip, so now
I feel comfortable in watching any movie like that.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I just said, tell you one thing I lost in
America and then the lesson there, and you'll understand that
after you watch the movie, do not ever lose your
nest egg in Las Vegas.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
That's all I'll say.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
Okay, this is what I mean.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
But this also I will tell you, like, there's always something.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
And this was the impetus for my trip.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
To answer that question is there's always something that goes
wrong or something happens and it's a story. And like
I didn't I had stories like.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
That in a limited capacity. But I was like, what
would it be like to.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Just intentionally go do something knowing in my head like
I know something's gonna go wrong. I'm gonna get eaten
by a bear, or I'm gonna, you know, eat a
poisonous berry or.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Something like that.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
I'm gonna lose my nest egg in Vegas. I just
I know something is going to happen. But what if
I just went out and lived that way knowing that
that's going to happen, and just see what happened, see
what comes out of it. I was like, man, what
a meaningful album that is, because that the album at
that point would just be a byproduct. And that's exactly
(19:30):
what it was. I went through a breakup. I had
been feeling cooped up for a while. I was like,
all right, it's time to do this, and almost immediately, Yeah,
I bought a new truck and a new airstream and
almost immediately, like I think it was like a couple
of weeks in, I was towing it and totaled it.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
I totaled my truck.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
I got an accident, total my truck, did major damage
to the airstream. And I'm sitting there, like you know,
on the highway and South Carolina and all these people
are driving by. My car's just like mangled, and all
these people are driving by. You can't park there, you know,
yelling stuff at me and all this stuff.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
This is what I wanted, This is what I asked for.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
I got my wish.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
Yeah, I got my wish. And you know, I'm uncomfortable
while while I'm in it.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
But I also there was a moment where I was
just sitting there just laughing, and I was like, well
here it is, you know. And I had so many
different moment long story short there. I got humbled by
the universe pretty hard there and bought a used truck
and used airstream and converted it myself. I was like,
(20:41):
let's do this the right way, and then went back
out on the road and it was good for the
next year.
Speaker 5 (20:46):
Well not good, but you know what I mean. It
was I didn't total.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Anything, and you built a studio in it.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
I did, yes, sir.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Yeah, So I forgot to elaborate on that I pulled
out kind of the back line lounge in the airstream
and just turned it into a little mobile rig and
decided that whatever was going to happen, I was going
to just write about it, and so that was my song.
(21:13):
The Reaper was like the first thing that I wrote
after I totaled my truck and you know, got humbled.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
It was like it's time to whatever.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
But that was the first first like thing, and then
I just decided I was going to do that for
as long as it took to get the album out,
and I went out and lived that way for about
a year, met some incredible people and had some insane experiences,
and then the album, Yeah, it.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Was just really just a byproduct of that.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
I had so many more stories where I was sitting
there just like, well I wanted this, and you know,
some insane inconvenience or whatever. But then eventually an album
was born and we went back. After the album was done,
I took a film crew out on the same route
(22:03):
that I took and showed them all the spots where
I wrote and recorded the music and did little acoustic
performances in those spots and.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Did like interviews in different places.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
So you can actually see where everything happened, and that comes.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
Out with the album as well. It's like a half hour.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
That's awesome. Now were you were? You were all alone
on this trip.
Speaker 5 (22:27):
I had, I had my dog, I had Mars, who's.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Over there and after she's sleeping, but after causing a ruckus.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
But yeah, I had mar.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
I got Mars about halfway through, so it was just
me for a bit and then and then Marsh joined
the party.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
That speaks to the introspective tone, the you know, the
you know, there's a weariness for sure that comes through.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
I want to ask you about a couple of songs.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
First of all, my ashes turning white speak about that's
that's quite a song.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
Thank you. That was the last song that I wrote.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Actually, funny enough, it's the first song on the album,
but the last song that I wrote and possibly my
favorite song on the album. I wanted to intro the
album with just like this kind of it was almost
like a prologue and then it turned into like a
real proper song. Yeah, there is absolutely a weariness. It's
(23:30):
I spent a lot of time in my head on
this trip, and that song. I was looking at the
full album minus that one. Of course, Like before I
wrote it, I was looking at the full album and
just seeing I could see the year and like the
emotional kind of trip that I took along with the
actual trip, and I was just realizing that there's so
(23:53):
much I wanted to kind of concisely explain why I
did this, And basically the message in that song was
just like, I'm not.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Afraid of dying.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
This thing is as much as it is driven by
a love for life and my love for being here,
it's also deeply driven by a fear of not doing
enough while I am on the earth, I'm terrified of
that and that when I do die, I won't last
for a while. I think everything just kind of gets
forgotten naturally, and there's just a lot of sadness in that.
(24:27):
And again you can see why I connect so much
with Towns. Van Zant's is this sort of like weariness
in his music as well. So that song was really
just like of me opening up the last bit of
this album and my experienced people, which was just like, listen,
(24:48):
this might look really cool, and it was really cool,
and there's a lot of it that's really special, but like,
I'm terrified of not doing enough while I'm here. So
this is me giving you everything. And it kind of
ends on this, like me just begging what I'm like,
You'll be all that's left of me. I'm talking about
the songs. I'm talking about the people that are listening.
(25:10):
I'm talking about my family, I'm talking about whatever. And
so when I died, just don't let me die, please,
And I think as much as there is fear in
like I don't want to be.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
Forgotten, that's the selfish part of it.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
But the non selfish part is like, don't stop listening,
don't stop feeling, don't stop just please, you know, surrender
to the music and to the experience, because that was
what I did with this album.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And since you mentioned The Reaper, which I love as well,
I mean I listened to The Reaper, and I imagine
you at a stark place somewhere in the middle of nowhere,
probably just contemplating struggles and challenges and where life is heading.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
But talk a little bit more about the Reaper.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Yeah, that's one of those that's like very when my
ashes turned whit. It's a little more vague and kind
of like introspective, and you can you can take it
different ways. The Reaper is just exactly what happened. It
was like I woke up, decided I was cooped up,
I'm going to Montana. I'm buying all this new stuff.
I'm gonna go like, hell yeah, I'm gonna go do
all these things. Bang totaled my car and I'm like
(26:22):
and once that happened, I'm sitting there, I'm like, what
am I doing? This is the universe saying is slow up, child,
You're gonna get burned. You know, like you're gonna live
a long, long life. You don't have to do everything
right now. And then I was just kind of recounting
everything else. It was like, I so I just talked
about a couple of every All the verses in there
(26:43):
are real stories and things that happened and moments that
I got ahead of myself. And then life was kind
of like, slow down, what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Pick one of the other songs and kind of walk
us through how your songwriting process work. You know, pick
one of your other eight favorites off of it, but
pick one or two and take us inside the songwriting
process for you as an artist.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
See find one. I want to find one that's kind
of deeper. They all, they all have something a little
bit different. One of my favorites is Anvil. There's a
song called Anvil on there and Anvil was it really depends.
(27:31):
I don't I don't really work with anyone because I
can't get all the way there for my project. I
love working with people for their project, but I can't.
I can't quite say exactly what I want to say
with other people. So my process is usually it almost
always just starts with me and a guitar and I'm
(27:52):
just noodling some stuff. Sometimes it might start with like
just a word or words or something, but I am
my one thing is I cannot be in the emotion
that I'm writing about when I write it.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
I don't know how people do that.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
Like when people are like sad and then they write
a song, it blows my mind.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
I have no idea how people are able to do that.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
If I'm sad, I'm sitting there just like staring at
the wall, Like the last thing I want to do
is talk about it. And so I once it's aged
a little bit, I'll be thinking about a certain thing.
And in that song particular, I was thinking about, like, man,
what a may after my breakup?
Speaker 5 (28:34):
That i'd gone through. I was like, man, what a
what a mess? What a mess this all is?
Speaker 4 (28:40):
And this is just for another lesson, you know, I'm like,
not every lesson can be worth all this mess, right,
And that was that was like the thought. And once
I had that, I was just kind of like I
knew that I was going to be talking about something
kind of sarcastically that I was really true, And.
Speaker 5 (29:01):
So that was the lie.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
It was the this lesson can't be worth all of
this goddamn miss that the song just kind of built
itself around all of that.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
From there, I usually just play and talk like I'll
just be playing and.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
It kind of word vomit and I've I've found that
that's the best way to write when you're trying to
actually say something, because.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
It's just talking.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
It's just I want you, I want whoever's listening to
just feel like I'm they're sitting there talking to me,
and eventually it takes shape and you know, if something
doesn't make sense, then I'll change the word.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
But it really is just me just doing.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Random stuff and talking with like one sort of theme
in the middle.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
So you'll be taking it out on the road soon.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Oh yeah, Oh yeah, I'm very excited for this album
to come out so that I can.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Play these songs in context.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
I've been playing like a lot the new stuff for
the last year or two that is on the album,
but I'm excited for people.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
To hear the actual recorded versions.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
And yeah, I'll be on the road for pretty much
the rest of this year and then hopefully all of
next year I'll be doing it. I'll be out as
long as as long as they'll have me.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Oh, that's great.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
The work is masterful, Sunflowers and Leather. It's brilliant. I
can't wait for people to check it out in person
or thank you through every platform.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
And it's an honor to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Jonah, congratulations on everything. And it's only the beginning.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
Baby, thank you so much. Buzz, this is great. I
appreciate you.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Thank you, and thank you. Mars.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
She's way too asleep now, she's over there one you see.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I love it.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
I'm sure she would say thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Also. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking
a Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your
friends and follow us so you never miss an episode.
Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
podcasts and wherever you get your podcasts
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