November 12, 2019 • 53 mins
Cameron Douglas discusses addiction, his time in prison, his relationship with Dad Michael and what the future looks like.
Jason Wahler discusses his relapse on The Hills and why it happened and what he’s doing about it.
They both give thoughtful advice to those suffering from addiction themselves or within their family.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Teddy Teapot. Hi, guys, thanks for tuning in again.
I put something out there last week about what topics
you guys would want to speak on, and the number
one overwhelming response was addiction. So I am so excited
to announce that Cameron Douglas and Jason Waller both going
(00:27):
to be on the podcast today. Cameron wrote a book
called long Way Home. It is incredible. I'm on chapter
right now. It's like a page S Turner, Um, he
grew up. He talks about his struggles and the pressures
he felt growing up as you know, um Michael Douglas's son,
but also his years with addiction and being in prison.
(00:49):
And I am just so grateful that he is here
sharing his experience with us so that we can all
learn and grow from it. So please make sure that
any other topics you want us discuss, or any questions
that you have on this podcast or anything else that
we can dig into, email Teddy t at I Heart
radio dot com. Cameron's book, long Way Home, talks about
(01:11):
his struggles with drug addiction that resulted in multiple overdoses,
his proclivity to crime and violence, his criminal trials in
seven years in prison. Two of which were spent in
solitary confinement. Wow, thanks so much for coming in, Cameron.
I'm on chapter seven of your book. I got it
last week. I am. I can't even tell you well
(01:33):
as I'm reading it, I am. I have so many
more questions I need to ask, and so do my listeners.
So I'm so grateful that you're here. Can you give
us a little bit of background on what led you
to write the book and you know, some of your experience.
Um So that was It was kind of an interesting
process because my family has always been very private and
(01:56):
I've sort of always followed suit with that as best
as I could. Um But you know, my father kept
mentioning to me about, you know, possibly writing a book
about some of my experiences, and I was sort of
wrestling with the idea. I couldn't understand why exactly. Um So, basically,
(02:20):
I realized in the end that it was really the
the ultimate way of showing your love. You know. My
father and mother felt that I had a story to
tell and felt that maybe it could be useful, and
despite the fact that it would inevitably put some of
their past back in the light, they felt that it
(02:40):
was that it was that I had a story to tell.
So I think it was a very selfless, selfless act
of of love on on their behalf. But you know,
for me, once I kind of got over the initial
hump of of you know, getting around to writing the book,
it was it was an interesting journey. It was a
(03:00):
long journey. It took about four years to write the book. UM.
I started writing in about a year before I came home,
So I was still in prison when I started writing
the book UM and and a lot of people ask,
you know, if it was cathartic, and it was definitely that,
but it was also it was difficult, you know, because
I had to go back over my entire life, talked
(03:23):
to a lot of people that I hadn't spoken to
in years to try to really get an understanding of
what was going on. UM. But in the end of
the day, I found it to be very helpful. Gave
me a real perspective on on some of my decisions,
um and what led me to making those decisions, and
and in the end, trying to make something useful out
(03:44):
of all of that pain and wreckage that there was.
I I read that you started experimenting with drugs around
the age of thirteen around when did you kind of
realized wow, like this is this is something more serious?
Because something I often hear, especially from the younger generation,
especially from like an affluent younger generations, I'm just experimenting.
(04:07):
I'm in college, I'm just having fun. Like how do
you know yourself that things are going to that point?
But also how did the people around you in your
life know that they need to start taking action or
can they even take action? Well, I think there's, uh,
there's a fine line between partying hard and having a
(04:27):
good time and being a full blown addict. So I think,
I mean some telltale signs for oneself is like if
you're staying up for days on end, probably a red flag,
you know, if you know things like that, If if
your life is becoming unmanageable, it's probably a red flag.
(04:48):
I think that. I definitely think that you know, partying
and experimenting is is okay, and it's part of growing up. Um,
but I guess I guess the real indicator is when
your focus starts to be uh, really revolving around getting
high rather than leading a productive life. I think it's
(05:09):
really when you're probably in trouble and and and and
hopefully you can either have you know, the inside or
or or the wisdom. I think some souls are just
older souls and just have done this more times and
and get it quicker. Um some of us it takes
much longer, like myself, and some of us unfortunately never
(05:30):
get it. So and I know you talked a lot
about like the pressure of growing up with you know,
a famous parent and the pressures that you put on yourself.
Do you think that despite those pressures, like I I'm
I'm similar where I grew up with having, you know,
(05:51):
putting my own pressure on myself. But I kind of
went the opposite way where I was so scared to
try anything or do anything because if I were to
mess up, my parents had me sign a contract when
I came to California that said, Okay, if you get
any trouble, you have to move back to Indiana. And
I was like, you know what that is? That is
deatifying right there enough, But I never try anything. But
(06:12):
in you know, in turn, with that pressure, I kind
of became super anxious. I'm type A mostly D like
all of those things. So I think it can develop
itself in many different ways. But do you think that
regardless of your upbringing, that is something that would have
shown anyway. Well, listen, I think the first thing you
(06:34):
have to look at is is your genetics. You know,
does it run in your family? And if it does,
I think you need to be more aware. But you know,
back to your question and your point really is, I
didn't in all fairness, I can't sit here and say
that I had a lot of pressure heaped on me
by my family. I think I put a lot of
pressure on myself to try and live up to my
(06:58):
family's name. And I just found the way that I
felt that I was doing that was was destructive. Um.
So yeah, I think Look, I think we're we're every
one of us is dealt to hand in life and
it's and it's the way that we uh play that hand.
I certainly was never was always loved and cared for. Um,
(07:23):
I just had, you know, issues that I was wrestling
with and the way that I chose to deal with
those issues let down a pretty rough, rough path for me.
And to start, I mean, you did have a little
bit of access to money, do you think of right
from the beginning. I mean a lot of people are
writing in because their kids are you know, experimenting with drugs.
(07:44):
They're starting to worry it's going down a more aggressive
path and they're not knowing how to handle it. But
they love their kids. They want to take care of
their kids. But how do you know when to cut
them off or you know, the access to money? Is
that creating in a bigger monster? I think it's like this.
I mean depending on where. If you're dealing with somebody
(08:06):
that's you feel is struggling with addiction, I think you
have to really take a good hard look at you know,
where they are exactly in their journey, and I think, um,
there does come a point where you do have to
sort of let go and and let them find their
way hopefully. But until that point, I think you personally,
I think you should try to do everything you can
(08:28):
do in your power to uh to to help them. Yeah,
because I was also reading you know through a lot
of it, you would have either, Um, there was aaron
in your book that was by your side for a
long time. And do you think that now in retrospect,
do you think, Wow, if if she would have cut
(08:49):
ties with me earlier, things would have been different, or
if this person would have cut me off completely or
do you think it wouldn't have mattered. I think, you know,
looking back on everything, I think one thing that really
would have been helpful to me had I been open
to it, was it was therapy. HAD had many opportunities
(09:10):
to to work with therapists as a as a young man,
and it was always just you know, really closed off
to it and not open to it at all. Of course,
now I worked with a therapist on a regular basis
and I find it to be extremely helpful, UM, And
so I think that's one thing for sure that maybe
would have made a difference. It's hard to pinpoint any
(09:34):
little details or relationships. I think. You know, it's funny
because your parents always love you, and the people that
are closest to you love you, and they try to
when you're starting to go down this road. They like
to point the finger at everyone else being a bad influence.
But the truth is I was a bad influence on
everybody else. So you know, it's just, uh, I don't
(09:57):
know everybody has I like think maybe that that maybe
we all have a journey and and some of the uh,
the experiences that we go through is necessary for UM
helping us to become equipped to lead the life that
we're meant to to lead. Uh, that's maybe optimistic, But
(10:19):
who knows. What what do you think was I mean,
I know this is crazy question, but what do you
think was harder? Like when you were in the throes
of addiction and overdosing or being in jail and solitary confinement. Well,
I mean they they are both prisons, you know in
a sense. You know, one is is is a prison
(10:42):
of your own making through addiction, just like a ball
and chain around your ankle and um. And that's that's difficult,
but it's it's it's a choice two that that you're making.
And and a lot of it is miserable. And that's
(11:03):
the insanity of addiction. I think a lot of addicts
struggle with is that they just they're so unhappy with
what's going on in their lives, but they just can't
let go for whatever reason. One maybe that's what they
count on for a little bit of relief for you
know too, they've been doing it so long that that's
all they know. Um. And then prison is a whole
(11:25):
different animal that's just thrust upon you. And and for me,
I had really no experience or no idea what I
was in store for so the learning curve for me
was very sharp there to say the least. Um, and
what was solitary confinement like, because you were there for
(11:46):
almost two years? Correct, I was it was Well, I
will say that it's amazing, h with the human It's
amazing how humans can adapt to more any situation one
and and two I learned the amazing will that a
human has to survive. Um. So, yeah, it's solitary, that's
(12:13):
a that's a whole another topic that I feel strongly
about because I've had my own personal experiences with it.
But it's, uh, it's it's it's a necessary tool sure
for for for prisons to to monitor the safety of
someone or the safety of individuals around that person, but
(12:34):
it needs to be implemented in the short term. These days,
they they just tossed you in there and they and
they leave you there really for you know, for not
a good reason. And it's uh, you can make things worse, well,
I think. I mean, look, it's like if you put
somebody in a cement box the size of an elevator
um for a long period of time, does that make
them less angry? No? Make them more stable? No? You know,
(12:57):
what I mean, it's just you could just go down
the list and realize it's not really going to be helpful.
And I think that's I mean, that's not up for debate.
What's what's up for debate is is when are they
going to start making these necessary reforms? Because the reality
is in this I can also speak from experience, is
our prison industrial complex in this country is not um
(13:21):
it's not it's not made to reform individuals. It's it's
made to break them down. And and during your your
your time in prison, you're treated like an animal. And
what happens when you're treated like an animal for for
a long period of time, you start acting like an
animal and then one day you get you get kicked
(13:42):
out the door and you and you move in next
door to a regular, tax paying, law abiding citizens. So
it's like they need to do a better job of
turning out men and women that are that are reformed. Right,
And you talk a lot about like, um, I don't like,
I don't like to the little womanizing or fighting or
(14:05):
any of those things. Do you think that all goes
hand in hand in hand with addiction or do you
think they're all kind of separate things? That have to
be worked on, or or once the drugs are gone,
the other things go away as well. Well. I don't know.
I mean, I've never considered myself a womanizer. I mean
I am kind of like a I guess, a romantic
(14:27):
at hard not maybe womanizer. Maybe that was the other
person I had on wording. Sorry, but but you had
said you were with multiple people at one time, but
you would keep certain girlfriends around. I did, I did
go through. I did, Yes, I I I. So what
happened is is I had a I had a really
rough relationship for a number of years, um, and when
(14:53):
her and I finally parted ways, I told myself that
I wouldn't allow myself to be in an another relationship
until I was completely ready for it. And I did
this because I didn't like the lies that I was
telling when I was in this relationship. I didn't like
the behavior, the guilt that I felt for not acting
properly in this relationship. So I just did that as
(15:16):
a kind of a way to to stop, yeah and
just you know, live honestly. Um. But maybe it didn't
didn't come across that way. I don't know, No, I
didn't know. I M sorry. About the wording UM. And
then also I am on as I said, chapter so,
I am at the part where you've started using heroin
(15:37):
again in the in the prison. How do you ultimately
get clean without ruining the without ruining the book? But
for our listeners like, how did that actually happen? And
then how are you able to stay well? So for me,
getting clean was was an evolution in prison. I certainly
(15:59):
didn't get lean right away. My my prison sojourn was
was atypical, to say the least. I I started, I
started my journey out a minimum security prison and I
and I worked my way diligently up to a high
security prison, which is where I ended up doing most
of my time. And that's not the way it's supposed
(16:21):
to work, supposed to work your way down, you know.
But I had a difficult time adjusting UM. And but
the turning point for me was UH, when I was
given my second sentence, which basically doubled my sentence. It
turned a five year sentence into a ten year sentence.
(16:43):
And UH, and I came back from the sentencing and
I was in the box at that time. I was
in they call it solitary confinements and you can't go
out at all. You couldn't even work out anymore at
this point. Oh no, you you have to work out,
work out in my cell, but in your cell you
couldn't even go but not nothing else you have. So
the way it's supposed to work is you get one
hour a day, uh in the outdoors. But what that
(17:08):
is is it's it's one hour a day in another
cement box with a cage over the top, and you
can see the sky. But it's it's not it's not
like being outside. It's just kind of having some fresh air,
which is nice. Um. But you know, the exercise was
was important for me through throughout. That was one of
(17:29):
the cornerstones, um of my routine. And the routine is
really what helped me get through it and make it
necessary changes. Um. But back to you, you know how
really I got sober? How it began anyways, was I
arrived back to my cell and there was just there
(17:50):
had been a riot in uh in the in that unit,
in the special housing unit they called the shoe um.
And guys when they riote, they'll plug their toilets and
they'll just they'll overflow the cell with water. And so
I arrived to my cell, and there was like four
(18:11):
inches of water on the ground, and you don't have shells.
So all my books, all my pictures, all my letters,
everything was just like ruined, soaking wet, and I and
I walked in the cell, I took my handcuffs off,
and and I just felt something inside of me kind
of cracking or breaking, and and and I felt at
(18:35):
that moment that I had two paths left open to me.
And one path would have been one that I probably
would not have made it back from. And the other
path was one that gave me a little bit of purpose,
a little bit of light. In that moment, which was
I came up with the idea that I would try
(18:55):
to make each day count towards putting myself in the
best possible position and to to make a life for
myself when I was finally released. And so I found
that that started working for him. You know. It got
me out of the rack every morning, got me motivated
to you, built a little curriculum for myself. Um and slowly,
(19:17):
slowly I started getting stronger. I started realizing that indeed
I did have these traits like discipline and drive that
I thought I just inherently wasn't born. Yeah, exactly, just
started building myself and uh, and then and then basically
a couple of years down the line, I'm I'm feeling good, strong, focused,
(19:41):
I feel like I have, you know, my priorities in
the right order. But I'm still dabbling and dabbling with
with heroin from time to time, and and uh, and
then I reached a point where I just couldn't rationalize anymore. Uh,
my heroin, use with you telling myself. I was doing
everything I could do to put myself in the best
(20:03):
position when I was finally released. So finally I was
able to give that up. I'd say that's probably about
three three years before I came home. And then when
did you meet? Um, I know you have a daughter,
So when did you meet your significant other? And how
(20:24):
did that happen? And you know, so so that's a
funny story. Actually, so I meant, Vivian is my girlfriend
and the mother of my daughter, and and uh and
we lived together and and so I met Vivian probably
fifteen years ago here in l A. She was she
(20:45):
was she was modeling it at a runway show. And
you know, they do like these wacky kind of themes something.
So part of her costume was she had this huge
blue afro and I after the show, I was backstage
and I was talking to her and we were trying
to have a serious conversation, and I just couldn't get
(21:06):
over that huge blue After us, I told her, I said, look,
I'm trying to take you seriously, but the hair is difficult.
But then we we stayed friends for a while after that.
Both of us were in a very different place at
that point in our lives. And and then I didn't
see her for for years. And then a few years
before I came home, I got a letter from her
(21:27):
and she had, you know, gone through a lot of
changes in her life, and and we started writing each
other letters. Because I didn't have my phone privileges at
the time, and getting to know each other like that
kind of getting to know somebody right like it was
just kind of I didn't I didn't know her in
(21:47):
this way. And so and then at the time we
we got back in contact, my my visitation privileges were
also I didn't have those, and so it was about
a year and a half till I was getting those backs.
We had about a year and a half to just
write letters. Uh, and then when I got those backs,
she came to visit and she basically, you know, was
(22:08):
there waiting for me when I was released from prison.
And then we had a little girl, see, not even
a year after I came home. So she's been been great.
My daughter's it's amazing. She's probably or is definitely my
(22:28):
biggest teacher in life right now. Um So it's it's
I mean, I feel really blessed these days, you know.
I mean I've obviously, you know, I've been well here, lucky.
I'm fortunate to say that. You know, when I came home,
I was able to really still dig in and stay
disciplined and really you know, work at building a life
(22:51):
for myself. Finished this book, I've been working on acting
and screenplay writing, and everything is starting to come together.
So that's what was gonna ask about acclimating back into society.
And because I have a listener question that was directly
for you, it was Cameron, my son has been struggling
with an addiction to heroin for ten years and he's
(23:12):
currently incarcerated and will be released on December two. My
husband and our four other children are in panic mode.
We want him to go into a sober living community
for a year while he finishes his parle. But he
is refusing to. I am paralyzed because I'm afraid he
will die. He has no plan and he needs to
learn coping skills and participate in therapy. Any help would
(23:32):
be greatly appreciated. Well, so depending on how I mean,
I don't know what his what his legal situation is,
but he should be mandated to go into a halfway house.
He's done a little bit of time, um, and that
can be very helpful. It's look, when you're in prison,
the last thing you want to think about doing is
(23:54):
going into a halfway house when you're released. But it is, Uh,
the adjustment is it's not easy and and and I
can vouch for that. I'm I'm somebody who thought it
was gonna be nice and smooth, and it was very
difficult for me. So so I think that hopefully her son,
and you probably won't like me saying this, but hopefully
(24:15):
her son will have to go into a halfway house,
and I think that'll be helpful. But the truth is, Teddy,
which is you know what I was telling you is
that there comes a point where you know, sometimes a
person is so far along in their journey in their
addiction that there's nothing that you can do except for
(24:36):
just hope and pray that they find their way. And
you have to take a little bit of the pressure
off yourself and off your family, because that's the that's
the cold hard reality of this thing. And do you
think in that case, like an ultimatum works or is
that just going to put you know, could he possibly
be saying he doesn't want to go in because he
just wants to get home and use sure, I mean,
(24:58):
that's probably what it is. If if he doesn't even
realize that, um, that's that you know, that addict sort
of it's it's it's crafty. But you know, I think
at this point, I mean, he's in prison, and he's
obviously he's been doing this for ten years. It's a
long time to be doing heroin. It's not an easy
habit to you to keep up and running. So I mean,
(25:20):
I'm I'm sorry to say, but you know, I think
he's probably just going to have to and maybe he
is already at that point where he's ready to to
to change something. So hopefully that's, uh, that's what they're
gonna find when he comes home. Yeah. Um, so since
you have been out and now that you're doing all
these positive things, what are some other tools that we
(25:43):
could give listeners? You know, of course that's great that
you've been able to find your y and all of
those things and work hard. But for somebody who's struggling
to even get to that point, yeah, what could you?
What could you share? So so, I, in my opinion,
and for me, my routine is is extremely important. So
(26:05):
I think you have to have an iron clad routine
that works for you and stick to it. So my
the cornerstone of my routine is is is meditation and
and exercise. So that's sort of the cornerstone. And then
I build around that, right and and and so I
(26:27):
think that success and I'm trying to think because happiness
is not but I think, you know, success and fulfillment
I think really comes through having your priorities in the
right order and having the discipline to follow through on
those priorities. So so your routine will help you do that,
(26:48):
you know, And then you just have to, in my opinion,
you have to take a good hard look at you know,
what your priorities really are. Are they healthy? And then
and then really dig in and fall through on on
what it takes to to see those priorities work fruition.
Another big question is how do you bring addiction up
in a constructive manner when they always get defensive. I mean,
(27:12):
I think the best way to do it is not
by beating around the bush. I think if you if
there's somebody that you care about and you see them,
you know, really struggling and you have X, Y and
Z reason why, I think you should just lay that
out on the table and have a talk with him
and say, look, we think you're messed up. This is
why we think you're messed up, and you know what,
(27:35):
tell me why we're wrong kind of thing. I mean
from my reading your book, there was a part that
a couple of times where the most frustrated you ever
seemed was when you thought you were going to do
something and you were tricked into something else. Yeah, I
mean me personally. I Uh, That's why I say to you,
I think I think being upfront is really the best,
the best way, you know, and it really just like
(27:57):
sit down with the person that you care are about
enough to sit down and have this conversation with and
have a real heart to heart. One other question, um,
somebody wrote in I'm on the road to recovery, but
relapse is one of the hardest forms of shame for
me to carry. How do I let go of that?
That's a good question, and that's that's an issue that
(28:17):
I still wrestle with myself. UM. I mean I have,
I have a lot of guilt and shame surrounding UM
many years of my life. And and it's interesting because
it's it's it's there. So I'm I'm learning now how
to start to let let go of that, UM. And
(28:41):
you know, I think for me when I start, you know,
filling that guilt and shame a little stronger than usual.
I tried to, you know, I tried to just let
myself know. I mean, look, no, nobody knows ourselves better
than ourselves, right, So if you know that you're doing
your best and that's all you can do. Uh, and
(29:05):
if other people are willing to forgive you, then you
need to be willing to forgreak yourself. Well, I we
have to take a break. But thank you so much
for sharing and being so vulnerable. I know that even
reading your book, and I know how many lives you're changing,
and so Thank you. I really appreciate it. Thank you
for having me. Hi, Jason, how are you. I'm good,
(29:35):
How are you good? Thanks so much for coming on today.
We really appreciate it. Well, thanks for having me. I'm
excited to be a part of it. Well, I have been,
you know, I've been researching you a lot the last
couple of days that I'm you know, blown away with
all the work you've done with um your sober living
facility because a lot of our listeners that is a
(29:55):
huge question that they're asking, is you know, my kid,
my honor, my son or my husband. You know, this
has changed and they don't want to go into a
sober living facility. And I was just kind of wanted
to start with that and how important that is. Well,
I just I'm more than happy to discuss that. I
wanted to let you know I am no longer actually
(30:15):
doing the sober living stuff. I'm very involved with aftercare
and all those components, but my actual will we actually
stopped doing the aftercare piece. What I wish we did it.
It is still very very important and it's something that
is is much needed, but I've directed my, you know,
my efforts into a much more advocacy role much feel
like it would be a much It's much more impertinent
to be able to do stuff like that. But I'm
(30:37):
more than happy to talk about anything related to you,
substance to be, mental health, recovery, whatever you want to
talk about. So perfect Well, I guess let's just start
then with how are you doing currently? Honestly, if things
are any better, I'd be in heaven. I mean, I
I'm living my best life. You know, I've I've been
able to really achieve balance in my life. I'm able
(30:58):
to live in the moment, be pre event, got an
amazing family, an amazing wife, uh, and really making an impact,
you know, on people's lives that struggle with this disease.
And it's something that you know, I really found my
passion through through recovery. It's just been it's incredible. I mean,
don't get me wrong, There's been its ups and down
through the way, you know, through the process, but overall, Um,
(31:18):
you know, things are absolutely incredible right now. Um, do
you feel like it's still a struggle every day? I
had um Cameron Douglas on right before you, and we
were talking about how he's able to remain sober and
he was saying a huge part for him is a
routine and that's what corrects him, you know, you know,
(31:41):
for lack of better words, accountable to feeling good. Um,
is that similar case for you? Well, by the way,
I love Cameron, great guy, great story, by the way,
But I mean this isn't this is not alcohol was Um,
it's alcoholism, right, So I mean it's something we have
to work on on a daily basis. And to his point,
you know, I do have a every single morning I
wake up, you know, I do a morning meditation, I
(32:03):
do a prayer, I send out a gratitude list to
it's ten other individuals of three things that I'm grateful for.
Not only what I'm grateful for, but why because the
wise were the meat really lies to help you understand
that not only do you have a lot to be
grateful for, you that you actually have more than you need. Uh.
And then either I go to the gym or I
go to a meeting. Uh. And that's how I start
my day off every single day. Don't steer away from it,
(32:24):
because you know, when I was active in my addiction,
it was something that I worked on seven to remain
high and under the influence, and when you are sober,
you have the same effort in to maintain or maintain sobriety.
It's so crazy that regardless of what what it is
in life, if it's an addiction or depression or anxiety,
following a routine is what actually always makes you feel better.
(32:47):
But it's the one thing you really don't want to
do it. It's it's what do they say, it's much harder.
It's much easier to break. Uh, it's much harder to
break a bad happiten, it is a good one, right,
But I think it's in this in this world that
we live in today, we're so prone to instant gratification,
you know, where there's so much influence out there, and
I think a routine really draws you closer to self,
(33:07):
so you can actually identify who you are and what
it is that you're wanting to pursue. And that's what
I've gotten out of a routine is really self identification
of me. I've got the best part about sobriety for
me is I've got to know I got to know
myself because for so many years I didn't know who
I was. I was so lost, Uh, you know, and
I had no, of course, of what direction I wanted
to take when I was under the influence that robbed
(33:29):
me of everything that was important to me. Um And
you know, through sobriety and in recovery, uh, it's allotted
me to get to know self and really pursue the
things that I really love and enjoy. And something else
that I was talking to Cameron about that I wasn't
sure if it would resonate with you as well. We
were talking about having like you were on the Laguda
(33:49):
Beach or the hills when all of this started, right,
so you had a lot of you had the financial
ability to be able to do these things, And I
was saying out the same thing kind of went with Cameron.
Do you think if you had less money it would
have been less prevalent in your life or do you
think it wouldn't have mattered You would have figured it out? No,
it would have. I mean, at the end of the day,
(34:09):
wouldn't have mattered. I mean I came from a very
successful family, if you will, I came, but I also
came from somebody, you know. I came from a solid
foundation of of you know, I had good morals, good values,
was raised right, had parents who were unbelievable. I mean,
definitely the same added fuel to the fire. But ultimately,
before any of that stuff happened, I mean I can
even identify when I was thirteen or fourteen years old,
(34:31):
without having to utilize subs, substances or drugs, I noticed
that I had, you know, underlying issues, whether that was
self or self esteem, uh, you know, and many other things.
The question anxiety. I struggled with O c D at
a very young age, and all those things kind of compelled,
but there was nothing. There was not resources or outlets
to be able to talk about that. Even just you know,
fifteen years ago. Uh, compared to where we're at today,
(34:53):
I mean, we've progressed so much more, and you know,
just being able to reach out today versus back then
is in a totally different spot. Uh. You know. The
money piece definitely, you know, I mean it made things,
it it heightened it, But I mean at the end
of the day, that wasn't the core issue. And a
lot of questions were coming in that, you know, they
have somebody who's struggling with addiction that as in their
(35:17):
life and they are every time they try to talk
to them. The person is super defensive. So now they're
feeling deflated, like is there a kind of like how
to or is there any kind of or information that
you can share with those out there they're struggling to
communicate with that person in their life. That's a very
very good question. I think at the end of the
day is is people need to get educated on on
(35:40):
the disease of addiction, right. I mean, there is no
such thing as recreational use of heroin or meth or
drinking a bottle of vaka they or you know, snorting
whatever it may be, taking a bunch of valume or benzos, whatever,
whatever your drug it's choice is. So I think it's understanding.
You know, addiction does not dictate who we are, but
it does not justify our actions. And I think it's
imperative that people approach us and it's like any other
(36:00):
disease that you know that this is it's got to
come from love. It's got to come you know, with
with compassion and understanding, and you know, because it's it's
somebody that's gotta wake up every day and utilize one
of those drugs to get through their day. Obviously they're
in a very bad spot. So I think it's it's
really coming from it with with love is a big
piece of it. But also, uh, setting boundaries and knowing
when you're contributing to to when you're benefiting somebody versus
(36:23):
when you're causing more harm, because that's a big factor
in this is wherever there's an alcoholic or an addict,
there's a codependent, and sometimes they're just as sick, if
not sicker, meaning that they you know, like for example,
my parents many times kept throwing pillows. They were literally
loving me to death when I should have fallen. And
you know, again is when I was willing to get
support or get help to be able to be there
(36:45):
and support me, whether that's your friends, family, whatever it
may be. But also when I'm in a place where
I'm not wanting to do that. You don't want to
enable negative behavior. So how do you know if you're
enabling versus actually being helpful. I think it's setting it's
clear line boundaries with it is is setting up, and
it's it's getting Sometimes you have to get clear cut
direction from individuals as well, because that's the thing is
(37:05):
this disease is so multifaceted, right that sometimes it's it's
imperative you get outside counsel with this, because when you
have it, when you're just a mom and a dad
trying to play you know, the mother or the father
figure to your son or daughter or whatever role it
may be, it's outside your scope. It's just like when
you're dealing with somebody that has cancer, You're you're you're
trying to do as much as you can to get
them to the right place right And I think sometimes
(37:26):
that's that's the place where it's it's it's if you're
a spot when it's that deep and you don't know
if you're contributing more harm or good. I would highly
advise that you seek outside help to really help you
with that. And that's because it's it's they want their
mom or dad or whatever the relationship to be, to
have that support from that person, not trying to be
the professional. Well I had read, um, I think you
were arrested something like eighteen times. That accurate a lot,
(37:51):
a lot a lot of times. What was your final
like actual uh you're breaking point? When were you like
I'm done? I mean I know there's been a relapse,
but I what was that point? And what do you
think is is a way that Yeah, go ahead, I
call that my moment of clarity, right where I really
identified and surrendered to the disease and that I admitted
(38:13):
that I had a problem, that I was willing to
get help. Uh. You know, because this for people that
don't know my story from you know, the ages of
seventeen to years old, I went to fourteen different treatment
centers from Florida, Hawaii, every state between, you know, as
arrested multiple times. Uh. You know, obviously went through a
very public battle with addiction. And what that led me
to is is all those times and we can talk
(38:36):
about you know, going to those different treatments and all
those things. They instill different things along the way, but
the biggest thing is that I was not willing or
motivated during that time. And what really transitioned is, you know,
addiction not only took me to the deaths of contemplating suicide,
but actually attempting. So I was at a spot where
I had I was not wanting to live any further. Um,
and this draw me back into a spot where I
(38:57):
was actually in the therapist office yet again with my
mom and dad. Um and my parents who play a
very pivotal role in our lives. Uh. You know, my
dad somebody that I look up to a lot um
and I've never seen him break down before, but I'll
never forget. In two thousand ten of July, uh you know,
he sat there across uh for me and my mom
in the therapist and you get just go, look, we
(39:18):
don't know what we're gonna do anymore. Um, you know,
we're lost. Uh you know, our marriage is suffering. Uh,
you know, and we're like two planks of wood waiting
for the phone call that you're dead. And like when
he said that, when he you know, painted that picture
of them waiting, being a lane in beds waiting, you know,
like two planks of wood waiting for the phone call
and I'm dead. Whatever it was, there was some form
(39:40):
of There was just a moment of clarity. Like I said,
I was in a spot where I had no motivation
to want to do this for myself. And I don't
want to sound contradicting, because my parents were the motivating
factor for me to have some form of willingness, which
translated into me being able to obtain recovery and really surrendering. Um.
So that was that moment when I kind of like
something click. A light came off on and I said, look,
(40:01):
I know I don't care enough about myself to do this,
but my parents and family and close friends became my
motivating factor. And that's what you know. It's transcended into
multiple months of sobriety for that reason. And then over time,
after I actively arrested disease, after I got stabilized, uh,
and it was really living a life and recovery. It
became something that I actually wanted. And that's the thing
(40:22):
I think a lot of people that understand is is
when somebody is active in their addiction, they don't they
lose the right to make their own decisions. They are
not thinking correctly. The way that somebody's frontal cortex operates,
which is your your executive functioning skills in your brain
does not work. And that's why there's got to be
a disruption to this process. Whether it's through and you know, intervention,
or whether it's people getting arrested or something that's major's
(40:44):
got to happen because they're not thinking correctly. And like
I said, being I was not in the clear state
of mind going to this therapy session. It was really
kind of like a come to Jesus if you will,
trying to figure out what direction we're going to take.
But it was that moment where you know, I saw
them being very vulnerable. Uh. And for me it was
a Godshop moment because that's that's the moment that changed
(41:05):
my life for the better. And I have a lot
of younger listeners, and I was overwhelmed with how many
people wrote in you know, I'm sick of this person
asking me if I'm struggling in addiction. I I love
to go and party and I'm just hanging out with
chicks and I want to do that. You know, it
became like it's this big social thing and they're kind
of defensive about it and they're wanting to know how
(41:26):
to get these people off their back. But my question is,
how do you know if you're in that stage where
you're telling yourself, I'm just having fun, I'm parting recreationally
that like, no, you you probably have a problem. Well, look,
I mean something that I go by is personally is
there's no normality and escaping reality. Right. But for those
that are out there, because I'm not against people that
(41:46):
can enjoy and have recreational use and enjoy it themselves,
but I look at it. If if I look at addiction,
whether it's drugs, alcohol, sex, gambling, food, whatever it is.
If whatever it is you're struggling with is derailing you
from your hitting your ultimate goals, that's knocking you off
balance of where you want to be in life, it's
something to identify with, right And do you think you
could even A lot of the time you hear, oh, well,
(42:07):
I don't even know what I want to do in life,
so this is fine, this suits me for now. You
do hear that. But at the end of the day,
it's it's you're not giving yourself the best best opportunity
to reach your fullest potential when you're under the influence. Uh.
And I think again, is is what are you taking?
What you know and how often you're using I mean,
there's so many different studies and statistics that are out
there that you know, doctors are's actually evidence based, you know,
(42:28):
things that are coming out today. You can actually take
a test to see, you know, I mean, you can
take a test to see if you struggle with substance
abuse or alcoholism. There's different things out there. Oh there,
I didn't even know that. That's amazing. Yes, So what
I can do is after this, I'll send you. You know,
there's specific there's twelve questions on being an alcoholic. Uh
you know if if you struggle with alcoholisms, if you answer,
(42:50):
you know four out of these twelve questions, you probably
have issues with alcoholism. So I'm more than happy to
say please. We will definitely post yes. And then I
know that you are are um married and you have
a daughter. Now, so congratulations, um I thank you very much.
Um So, I have a two partner, but I ask
you the first one. First for in regards to parenting,
(43:12):
how do you think that you will talk to your
daughter in regards to alcohol or drugs or whatever it
may be. God, you had to go there, such a
loaded question. Well I want to know now for my kids.
I'm like, I need to you know. I think it's
such an important conversation that we all tiptoe around. I
mean I remember like just thinking, okay, I just I
(43:34):
don't want to die. I'm scared to try this because
I heard this happen to one person, but that was
just fear based. But I had no actual knowledge where
I have other friends that tried everything because they were
like told, oh, it's just like blah blah blah, and
then really they're trying you know, meth. All right, Well,
so no, I mean that's a it's a great question.
And I think from from my perspective and everything that
(43:54):
I've gone through and what I've learned, you know, I've
got very educated around the disease model of this, and
it's both behavior and biology player role into addiction. You
know that that classify it as a brain disorder. That's
kind of what I've come up with. But I think
with that being said, to break that down is the
evidence based modalities that we've seen is there's actually studies
(44:14):
out there if that if you can actually have somebody
stay away from drug use or alcohol use until they're
twenty one years old to let their brains you know,
almost fully develop, they have a chance of not having
addiction issues. So that from what I've learned, I mean,
in my household, when Delilah is you know under our roof,
I mean, she's not gonna be utilizing you. I'm not
(44:35):
gonna be the parents that's gonna let her experiment or
do things like that because you know, for me, is
with what I've learned today is we have that evidence
to show that you know, and that that that time frame. Uh,
it's so imperative that we steer clear of that stuff
in the potency and the different types of drugs that
are out there are there, they're that's so different from
even ten years ago. So I mean, the way I'm
(44:56):
gonna approach it is let her know. I'll be open
and vulnerable, let her know what the struggle is that
it runs in our family, um, you know, and I
will be very transparent with her to to let her
know that this is something that is is that I
had to deal with and that it's affected us tremensally.
And again it's thank god she's too right now, and
I think we're on a spot where're gonna have so
much more knowledge and education around this every year that
(45:17):
goes on from here. But I mean, the main thing
is is there's not gonna be any drugs or alcohol
in my house well when she's when she's under our roof,
and she could be upset about that, but based on
the scientific evidence, I want to give her the best
opportunity that she possibly can. And more moreoverly is I
want to instill in her that you don't need drugs
and alcohol to have fun. I mean, drugs and alcohol
(45:39):
robbed me from everything I love. I grew up in
the Gouna beach, grew up surfing, skateboarding, snowboarding, wakeboarding, uh,
you know, playing baseball, all the things I love. And
I stopped doing every single thing when I started using heavily.
And you know, I'm out here. I'm sitting in choir
right now, you know, And I'm on a surf trip
with somebody and stuff, and I mean, I get to
(46:01):
embrace life. Like there was a whole crew of us
that went out to dinner last night and all of
us were sober, and it's just so funny to people
watch and just to see what people think is fun.
I think there's this a false perception on what is
really a reality. You know, I want it is false,
it's reality. And in that in that same vein, like
is there certain things like okay, I don't I don't
(46:23):
know if your wife has a glass of wine, or
if you're filming the hills or any of those things.
Are there any triggers for you now that you're just like,
I need to get out of the situation, or how
do you handle that? If you have been triggered great
question is you know there there are it's it's the
trigger or the obsession to use. It can be very overwhelming.
But I basically when I go into a situation, it's
(46:43):
like my wife is very mindful, she has a normal
She can have a glass of wine, take it or
leave it. You know. When we first met, what really
drew me to her is how supportive and dedicated she
was to helping me in my recovery. Because she literally
stopped drinking for over a year to support me in
my recovery back in two thousand ten. And that showed
her dedication to it. And today she's very mindful. She
(47:03):
literally asked still to the say or you know, you know,
you're good if I have a glass of wine or
you know, and we communicate. Communication is key. But if
we go into an environment like I like the hills
and going back into relapse, because that's you know, relapses,
something that that that happens um and it's something to
be mindful of. But it's any time I go into
a situation where I know there may be an uncomfortablelity,
like for work or different things, I have an exit strategy.
(47:26):
You know, I have a couple of guys that I
let know of the environment that I'm going into. Uh,
And then I you know, I may need, may need
to reach out to them, uh, you know. And and
I let my wife know. I communicate with her if
I'm feeling uncomfortable. And if i get to a spot
where I'm really, you know, very uncomfortable, I'll tell my
wife we've gotta go. And and your most recent relapse,
(47:47):
what do you think was the driving force that you
were able to stop again and recommit. Do you think
it was the fact that your wife gave you an
ultimatum or I don't know what what the case was,
but I'm just asking you know, this will well this
We'll just give you. This is something that for me
is is it was not even related to the obsession
of substances or different environments. This is actually something else
(48:09):
that I was never privy to and I never really had.
I never had an issue with body imaging, if you will.
Like I said, growing up, I was always active, athletic,
was always in shape to some degree, even when I
was in my addiction. They ever got super out of shape.
But this time, after I had gotten out of treatment
and was sober for you know, a length of six months,
you know, six months, uh, you know, I actually had
gained a lot of weight from the last time of
(48:31):
your body just doesn't you know, as you get older,
obviously your system doesn't work as well. And and I
had gained a lot of weight, and I was super
uncomfortable in my own skin. And you know, every day
when you wake up, you know, and you take a
shower and get ready, what do you see? You see
yourself in the mirror. And I didn't reach out about that.
It was something that was new, uh for me, which
was imaging stuff and and being you know, bloated and
(48:51):
this in a you know, I thought my system would
would come back in and obviously being on camera that
did not help. That made things very uncomfortable. And as
opposed opening up and talking about it, I isolated, and
ultimately it took me back to using. And when I use,
it was a one day thing. But when I woke up,
you know, I sat there with my wife and we
had a real conversation about what the issue was, and
(49:13):
she understood it, and she she did not you know,
she also she understood what was going on, and she
in the love and support from her was huge, but
it was also like a motivating factors like I need
to be able to be there for my daughter, I
need to be able to be there for my wife.
I need to be an example. Um, you know. And
I also know where this takes me. I played the
tape out it trust me that the using and drinking
for me, it's not fun. Drinking and using used to be.
(49:34):
It used to be, uh, you know, fun, It became
a lifestyle, and then it became a way of survival.
So whenever I use, like if I use drugs or
out call, there's no fun left in it. Uh. It's
in a spot where it's very dark, isolated, uh, and
not wanting to be present. Uh. And the only way
I know to be able to deal with that stuff
is to identify the issues. That called a triple A modality.
It's it's it's awareness accepted in action. If I'm not
(49:57):
aware of what's going on, I'm not gonna be able
to accept what's happening. And if I don't accept what's happy,
and I'm not gonna be able to take take action
on it. So I pause in that moment, I really
identify what's going on except what I need to do
so I can take the appropriate action to better the situation. Well,
this is so interesting. Thank you so much. I I mean,
I think it's interesting that you brought up the body
(50:19):
image issues starting to happen, because that was another big
thing that people are wanting to learn about, is different
food addiction, body issues and how that can translate into
so many different things in our life. So, UM, I
thank you for being so vulnerable with us and sharing
with us today. And UM, please if you can send
in that information for our listeners and regards to if
(50:42):
you know, if they're struggling with alcoholism or any of
those types of things, that would be amazing. I'm more
than happy to thank you for your time. Jason just
paired with the Red Songbird Foundation. The foundation just announced
its scholarship program that will donate a hundred thousand to
it's the treatment of someone with mental health or substance
(51:02):
abuse issues. Find out all the info at Beach House
Treatment dot com slash Scholarship. Wow, that was such a
great conversation and how amazing that both Jason and Cameron
said the key to staying sober for them is in
(51:23):
the routine meditation exercise. I mean, that's pretty eye opening. Um,
but I also wanted to read through those questions that
Jason said that you could look through, because I think
it would be helpful. Have you ever decided to stop
drinking for a week or so but only lasted for
a couple of days? Yes? Or no? Do you wish
(51:43):
people would mind their own business about your drinking stop
telling you what to do? Yes? Or no? Have you
ever switched from one kind of drink to another and
the hope that this would keep you from getting drunk? Yes?
Or no? Have you had to have an eye opener
upon a way akening during the past year. Do you
drink to get started or to stop shaking? That is
(52:05):
a pretty sure sign that you're not drinking socially? Do
you envy people who can drink without getting into trouble?
Be honest? Doctors say that if you have a problem
with alcohol and keep drinking, it will get worse, never better.
Eventually you will die or end up in an institution
for the rest of your life. The only hope is
to stop drinking. Has your drinking cause trouble at home?
(52:27):
Do you ever try to get extra drinks at a
party because you do not get enough? Do you tell
yourself you can stop drinking at any time you want to,
even though you keep getting drunk when you don't mean to.
Have you missed days of work or school because of drinking?
Do you often have blackouts? A blackout is when we
have been drinking hours or days which we cannot remember.
(52:49):
When we came to a A, we found out that
this is a pretty sure sign of alcoholic drinking. Have
you ever felt that your life would be better if
you did not drink? Many of A started to drink
because drinking made life seem better, at least for a while.
By the time we got to a A, we felt trapped.
We were drinking to live and living to drink. We
were sick and tired of being sick and tired. Wow.
(53:12):
So I think that that's an important quiz to take.
I mean, there's so many different matters we can get
into in regards to addiction, from social media addiction to
food addiction to sex addiction. Um, please write in whatever
it is that you want us to talk about and
we will get into it. At Teddy t at I
(53:33):
heart radio dot com. Thanks for listening, Thanks for listening.
Subscribe to radio or wherever you listen to podcasts.
This is Teddy Teapot. Hi, guys, thanks for tuning in again.
I put something out there last week about what topics
you guys would want to speak on, and the number
one overwhelming response was addiction. So I am so excited
to announce that Cameron Douglas and Jason Waller both going
(00:27):
to be on the podcast today. Cameron wrote a book
called long Way Home. It is incredible. I'm on chapter
right now. It's like a page S Turner, Um, he
grew up. He talks about his struggles and the pressures
he felt growing up as you know, um Michael Douglas's son,
but also his years with addiction and being in prison.
(00:49):
And I am just so grateful that he is here
sharing his experience with us so that we can all
learn and grow from it. So please make sure that
any other topics you want us discuss, or any questions
that you have on this podcast or anything else that
we can dig into, email Teddy t at I Heart
radio dot com. Cameron's book, long Way Home, talks about
(01:11):
his struggles with drug addiction that resulted in multiple overdoses,
his proclivity to crime and violence, his criminal trials in
seven years in prison. Two of which were spent in
solitary confinement. Wow, thanks so much for coming in, Cameron.
I'm on chapter seven of your book. I got it
last week. I am. I can't even tell you well
(01:33):
as I'm reading it, I am. I have so many
more questions I need to ask, and so do my listeners.
So I'm so grateful that you're here. Can you give
us a little bit of background on what led you
to write the book and you know, some of your experience.
Um So that was It was kind of an interesting
process because my family has always been very private and
(01:56):
I've sort of always followed suit with that as best
as I could. Um But you know, my father kept
mentioning to me about, you know, possibly writing a book
about some of my experiences, and I was sort of
wrestling with the idea. I couldn't understand why exactly. Um So, basically,
(02:20):
I realized in the end that it was really the
the ultimate way of showing your love. You know. My
father and mother felt that I had a story to
tell and felt that maybe it could be useful, and
despite the fact that it would inevitably put some of
their past back in the light, they felt that it
(02:40):
was that it was that I had a story to tell.
So I think it was a very selfless, selfless act
of of love on on their behalf. But you know,
for me, once I kind of got over the initial
hump of of you know, getting around to writing the book,
it was it was an interesting journey. It was a
(03:00):
long journey. It took about four years to write the book. UM.
I started writing in about a year before I came home,
So I was still in prison when I started writing
the book UM and and a lot of people ask,
you know, if it was cathartic, and it was definitely that,
but it was also it was difficult, you know, because
I had to go back over my entire life, talked
(03:23):
to a lot of people that I hadn't spoken to
in years to try to really get an understanding of
what was going on. UM. But in the end of
the day, I found it to be very helpful. Gave
me a real perspective on on some of my decisions,
um and what led me to making those decisions, and
and in the end, trying to make something useful out
(03:44):
of all of that pain and wreckage that there was.
I I read that you started experimenting with drugs around
the age of thirteen around when did you kind of
realized wow, like this is this is something more serious?
Because something I often hear, especially from the younger generation,
especially from like an affluent younger generations, I'm just experimenting.
(04:07):
I'm in college, I'm just having fun. Like how do
you know yourself that things are going to that point?
But also how did the people around you in your
life know that they need to start taking action or
can they even take action? Well, I think there's, uh,
there's a fine line between partying hard and having a
(04:27):
good time and being a full blown addict. So I think,
I mean some telltale signs for oneself is like if
you're staying up for days on end, probably a red flag,
you know, if you know things like that, If if
your life is becoming unmanageable, it's probably a red flag.
(04:48):
I think that. I definitely think that you know, partying
and experimenting is is okay, and it's part of growing up. Um,
but I guess I guess the real indicator is when
your focus starts to be uh, really revolving around getting
high rather than leading a productive life. I think it's
(05:09):
really when you're probably in trouble and and and and
hopefully you can either have you know, the inside or
or or the wisdom. I think some souls are just
older souls and just have done this more times and
and get it quicker. Um some of us it takes
much longer, like myself, and some of us unfortunately never
(05:30):
get it. So and I know you talked a lot
about like the pressure of growing up with you know,
a famous parent and the pressures that you put on yourself.
Do you think that despite those pressures, like I I'm
I'm similar where I grew up with having, you know,
(05:51):
putting my own pressure on myself. But I kind of
went the opposite way where I was so scared to
try anything or do anything because if I were to
mess up, my parents had me sign a contract when
I came to California that said, Okay, if you get
any trouble, you have to move back to Indiana. And
I was like, you know what that is? That is
deatifying right there enough, But I never try anything. But
(06:12):
in you know, in turn, with that pressure, I kind
of became super anxious. I'm type A mostly D like
all of those things. So I think it can develop
itself in many different ways. But do you think that
regardless of your upbringing, that is something that would have
shown anyway. Well, listen, I think the first thing you
(06:34):
have to look at is is your genetics. You know,
does it run in your family? And if it does,
I think you need to be more aware. But you know,
back to your question and your point really is, I
didn't in all fairness, I can't sit here and say
that I had a lot of pressure heaped on me
by my family. I think I put a lot of
pressure on myself to try and live up to my
(06:58):
family's name. And I just found the way that I
felt that I was doing that was was destructive. Um.
So yeah, I think Look, I think we're we're every
one of us is dealt to hand in life and
it's and it's the way that we uh play that hand.
I certainly was never was always loved and cared for. Um,
(07:23):
I just had, you know, issues that I was wrestling
with and the way that I chose to deal with
those issues let down a pretty rough, rough path for me.
And to start, I mean, you did have a little
bit of access to money, do you think of right
from the beginning. I mean a lot of people are
writing in because their kids are you know, experimenting with drugs.
(07:44):
They're starting to worry it's going down a more aggressive
path and they're not knowing how to handle it. But
they love their kids. They want to take care of
their kids. But how do you know when to cut
them off or you know, the access to money? Is
that creating in a bigger monster? I think it's like this.
I mean depending on where. If you're dealing with somebody
(08:06):
that's you feel is struggling with addiction, I think you
have to really take a good hard look at you know,
where they are exactly in their journey, and I think, um,
there does come a point where you do have to
sort of let go and and let them find their
way hopefully. But until that point, I think you personally,
I think you should try to do everything you can
(08:28):
do in your power to uh to to help them. Yeah,
because I was also reading you know through a lot
of it, you would have either, Um, there was aaron
in your book that was by your side for a
long time. And do you think that now in retrospect,
do you think, Wow, if if she would have cut
(08:49):
ties with me earlier, things would have been different, or
if this person would have cut me off completely or
do you think it wouldn't have mattered. I think, you know,
looking back on everything, I think one thing that really
would have been helpful to me had I been open
to it, was it was therapy. HAD had many opportunities
(09:10):
to to work with therapists as a as a young man,
and it was always just you know, really closed off
to it and not open to it at all. Of course,
now I worked with a therapist on a regular basis
and I find it to be extremely helpful, UM, And
so I think that's one thing for sure that maybe
would have made a difference. It's hard to pinpoint any
(09:34):
little details or relationships. I think. You know, it's funny
because your parents always love you, and the people that
are closest to you love you, and they try to
when you're starting to go down this road. They like
to point the finger at everyone else being a bad influence.
But the truth is I was a bad influence on
everybody else. So you know, it's just, uh, I don't
(09:57):
know everybody has I like think maybe that that maybe
we all have a journey and and some of the uh,
the experiences that we go through is necessary for UM
helping us to become equipped to lead the life that
we're meant to to lead. Uh, that's maybe optimistic, But
(10:19):
who knows. What what do you think was I mean,
I know this is crazy question, but what do you
think was harder? Like when you were in the throes
of addiction and overdosing or being in jail and solitary confinement. Well,
I mean they they are both prisons, you know in
a sense. You know, one is is is a prison
(10:42):
of your own making through addiction, just like a ball
and chain around your ankle and um. And that's that's difficult,
but it's it's it's a choice two that that you're making.
And and a lot of it is miserable. And that's
(11:03):
the insanity of addiction. I think a lot of addicts
struggle with is that they just they're so unhappy with
what's going on in their lives, but they just can't
let go for whatever reason. One maybe that's what they
count on for a little bit of relief for you
know too, they've been doing it so long that that's
all they know. Um. And then prison is a whole
(11:25):
different animal that's just thrust upon you. And and for me,
I had really no experience or no idea what I
was in store for so the learning curve for me
was very sharp there to say the least. Um, and
what was solitary confinement like, because you were there for
(11:46):
almost two years? Correct, I was it was Well, I
will say that it's amazing, h with the human It's
amazing how humans can adapt to more any situation one
and and two I learned the amazing will that a
human has to survive. Um. So, yeah, it's solitary, that's
(12:13):
a that's a whole another topic that I feel strongly
about because I've had my own personal experiences with it.
But it's, uh, it's it's it's a necessary tool sure
for for for prisons to to monitor the safety of
someone or the safety of individuals around that person, but
(12:34):
it needs to be implemented in the short term. These days,
they they just tossed you in there and they and
they leave you there really for you know, for not
a good reason. And it's uh, you can make things worse, well,
I think. I mean, look, it's like if you put
somebody in a cement box the size of an elevator
um for a long period of time, does that make
them less angry? No? Make them more stable? No? You know,
(12:57):
what I mean, it's just you could just go down
the list and realize it's not really going to be helpful.
And I think that's I mean, that's not up for debate.
What's what's up for debate is is when are they
going to start making these necessary reforms? Because the reality
is in this I can also speak from experience, is
our prison industrial complex in this country is not um
(13:21):
it's not it's not made to reform individuals. It's it's
made to break them down. And and during your your
your time in prison, you're treated like an animal. And
what happens when you're treated like an animal for for
a long period of time, you start acting like an
animal and then one day you get you get kicked
(13:42):
out the door and you and you move in next
door to a regular, tax paying, law abiding citizens. So
it's like they need to do a better job of
turning out men and women that are that are reformed. Right,
And you talk a lot about like, um, I don't like,
I don't like to the little womanizing or fighting or
(14:05):
any of those things. Do you think that all goes
hand in hand in hand with addiction or do you
think they're all kind of separate things? That have to
be worked on, or or once the drugs are gone,
the other things go away as well. Well. I don't know.
I mean, I've never considered myself a womanizer. I mean
I am kind of like a I guess, a romantic
(14:27):
at hard not maybe womanizer. Maybe that was the other
person I had on wording. Sorry, but but you had
said you were with multiple people at one time, but
you would keep certain girlfriends around. I did, I did
go through. I did, Yes, I I I. So what
happened is is I had a I had a really
rough relationship for a number of years, um, and when
(14:53):
her and I finally parted ways, I told myself that
I wouldn't allow myself to be in an another relationship
until I was completely ready for it. And I did
this because I didn't like the lies that I was
telling when I was in this relationship. I didn't like
the behavior, the guilt that I felt for not acting
properly in this relationship. So I just did that as
(15:16):
a kind of a way to to stop, yeah and
just you know, live honestly. Um. But maybe it didn't
didn't come across that way. I don't know, No, I
didn't know. I M sorry. About the wording UM. And
then also I am on as I said, chapter so,
I am at the part where you've started using heroin
(15:37):
again in the in the prison. How do you ultimately
get clean without ruining the without ruining the book? But
for our listeners like, how did that actually happen? And
then how are you able to stay well? So for me,
getting clean was was an evolution in prison. I certainly
(15:59):
didn't get lean right away. My my prison sojourn was
was atypical, to say the least. I I started, I
started my journey out a minimum security prison and I
and I worked my way diligently up to a high
security prison, which is where I ended up doing most
of my time. And that's not the way it's supposed
(16:21):
to work, supposed to work your way down, you know.
But I had a difficult time adjusting UM. And but
the turning point for me was UH, when I was
given my second sentence, which basically doubled my sentence. It
turned a five year sentence into a ten year sentence.
(16:43):
And UH, and I came back from the sentencing and
I was in the box at that time. I was
in they call it solitary confinements and you can't go
out at all. You couldn't even work out anymore at
this point. Oh no, you you have to work out,
work out in my cell, but in your cell you
couldn't even go but not nothing else you have. So
the way it's supposed to work is you get one
hour a day, uh in the outdoors. But what that
(17:08):
is is it's it's one hour a day in another
cement box with a cage over the top, and you
can see the sky. But it's it's not it's not
like being outside. It's just kind of having some fresh air,
which is nice. Um. But you know, the exercise was
was important for me through throughout. That was one of
(17:29):
the cornerstones, um of my routine. And the routine is
really what helped me get through it and make it
necessary changes. Um. But back to you, you know how
really I got sober? How it began anyways, was I
arrived back to my cell and there was just there
(17:50):
had been a riot in uh in the in that unit,
in the special housing unit they called the shoe um.
And guys when they riote, they'll plug their toilets and
they'll just they'll overflow the cell with water. And so
I arrived to my cell, and there was like four
(18:11):
inches of water on the ground, and you don't have shells.
So all my books, all my pictures, all my letters,
everything was just like ruined, soaking wet, and I and
I walked in the cell, I took my handcuffs off,
and and I just felt something inside of me kind
of cracking or breaking, and and and I felt at
(18:35):
that moment that I had two paths left open to me.
And one path would have been one that I probably
would not have made it back from. And the other
path was one that gave me a little bit of purpose,
a little bit of light. In that moment, which was
I came up with the idea that I would try
(18:55):
to make each day count towards putting myself in the
best possible position and to to make a life for
myself when I was finally released. And so I found
that that started working for him. You know. It got
me out of the rack every morning, got me motivated
to you, built a little curriculum for myself. Um and slowly,
(19:17):
slowly I started getting stronger. I started realizing that indeed
I did have these traits like discipline and drive that
I thought I just inherently wasn't born. Yeah, exactly, just
started building myself and uh, and then and then basically
a couple of years down the line, I'm I'm feeling good, strong, focused,
(19:41):
I feel like I have, you know, my priorities in
the right order. But I'm still dabbling and dabbling with
with heroin from time to time, and and uh, and
then I reached a point where I just couldn't rationalize anymore. Uh,
my heroin, use with you telling myself. I was doing
everything I could do to put myself in the best
(20:03):
position when I was finally released. So finally I was
able to give that up. I'd say that's probably about
three three years before I came home. And then when
did you meet? Um, I know you have a daughter,
So when did you meet your significant other? And how
(20:24):
did that happen? And you know, so so that's a
funny story. Actually, so I meant, Vivian is my girlfriend
and the mother of my daughter, and and uh and
we lived together and and so I met Vivian probably
fifteen years ago here in l A. She was she
(20:45):
was she was modeling it at a runway show. And
you know, they do like these wacky kind of themes something.
So part of her costume was she had this huge
blue afro and I after the show, I was backstage
and I was talking to her and we were trying
to have a serious conversation, and I just couldn't get
(21:06):
over that huge blue After us, I told her, I said, look,
I'm trying to take you seriously, but the hair is difficult.
But then we we stayed friends for a while after that.
Both of us were in a very different place at
that point in our lives. And and then I didn't
see her for for years. And then a few years
before I came home, I got a letter from her
(21:27):
and she had, you know, gone through a lot of
changes in her life, and and we started writing each
other letters. Because I didn't have my phone privileges at
the time, and getting to know each other like that
kind of getting to know somebody right like it was
just kind of I didn't I didn't know her in
(21:47):
this way. And so and then at the time we
we got back in contact, my my visitation privileges were
also I didn't have those, and so it was about
a year and a half till I was getting those backs.
We had about a year and a half to just
write letters. Uh, and then when I got those backs,
she came to visit and she basically, you know, was
(22:08):
there waiting for me when I was released from prison.
And then we had a little girl, see, not even
a year after I came home. So she's been been great.
My daughter's it's amazing. She's probably or is definitely my
(22:28):
biggest teacher in life right now. Um So it's it's
I mean, I feel really blessed these days, you know.
I mean I've obviously, you know, I've been well here, lucky.
I'm fortunate to say that. You know, when I came home,
I was able to really still dig in and stay
disciplined and really you know, work at building a life
(22:51):
for myself. Finished this book, I've been working on acting
and screenplay writing, and everything is starting to come together.
So that's what was gonna ask about acclimating back into society.
And because I have a listener question that was directly
for you, it was Cameron, my son has been struggling
with an addiction to heroin for ten years and he's
(23:12):
currently incarcerated and will be released on December two. My
husband and our four other children are in panic mode.
We want him to go into a sober living community
for a year while he finishes his parle. But he
is refusing to. I am paralyzed because I'm afraid he
will die. He has no plan and he needs to
learn coping skills and participate in therapy. Any help would
(23:32):
be greatly appreciated. Well, so depending on how I mean,
I don't know what his what his legal situation is,
but he should be mandated to go into a halfway house.
He's done a little bit of time, um, and that
can be very helpful. It's look, when you're in prison,
the last thing you want to think about doing is
(23:54):
going into a halfway house when you're released. But it is, Uh,
the adjustment is it's not easy and and and I
can vouch for that. I'm I'm somebody who thought it
was gonna be nice and smooth, and it was very
difficult for me. So so I think that hopefully her son,
and you probably won't like me saying this, but hopefully
(24:15):
her son will have to go into a halfway house,
and I think that'll be helpful. But the truth is, Teddy,
which is you know what I was telling you is
that there comes a point where you know, sometimes a
person is so far along in their journey in their
addiction that there's nothing that you can do except for
(24:36):
just hope and pray that they find their way. And
you have to take a little bit of the pressure
off yourself and off your family, because that's the that's
the cold hard reality of this thing. And do you
think in that case, like an ultimatum works or is
that just going to put you know, could he possibly
be saying he doesn't want to go in because he
just wants to get home and use sure, I mean,
(24:58):
that's probably what it is. If if he doesn't even
realize that, um, that's that you know, that addict sort
of it's it's it's crafty. But you know, I think
at this point, I mean, he's in prison, and he's
obviously he's been doing this for ten years. It's a
long time to be doing heroin. It's not an easy
habit to you to keep up and running. So I mean,
(25:20):
I'm I'm sorry to say, but you know, I think
he's probably just going to have to and maybe he
is already at that point where he's ready to to
to change something. So hopefully that's, uh, that's what they're
gonna find when he comes home. Yeah. Um, so since
you have been out and now that you're doing all
these positive things, what are some other tools that we
(25:43):
could give listeners? You know, of course that's great that
you've been able to find your y and all of
those things and work hard. But for somebody who's struggling
to even get to that point, yeah, what could you?
What could you share? So so, I, in my opinion,
and for me, my routine is is extremely important. So
(26:05):
I think you have to have an iron clad routine
that works for you and stick to it. So my
the cornerstone of my routine is is is meditation and
and exercise. So that's sort of the cornerstone. And then
I build around that, right and and and so I
(26:27):
think that success and I'm trying to think because happiness
is not but I think, you know, success and fulfillment
I think really comes through having your priorities in the
right order and having the discipline to follow through on
those priorities. So so your routine will help you do that,
(26:48):
you know, And then you just have to, in my opinion,
you have to take a good hard look at you know,
what your priorities really are. Are they healthy? And then
and then really dig in and fall through on on
what it takes to to see those priorities work fruition.
Another big question is how do you bring addiction up
in a constructive manner when they always get defensive. I mean,
(27:12):
I think the best way to do it is not
by beating around the bush. I think if you if
there's somebody that you care about and you see them,
you know, really struggling and you have X, Y and
Z reason why, I think you should just lay that
out on the table and have a talk with him
and say, look, we think you're messed up. This is
why we think you're messed up, and you know what,
(27:35):
tell me why we're wrong kind of thing. I mean
from my reading your book, there was a part that
a couple of times where the most frustrated you ever
seemed was when you thought you were going to do
something and you were tricked into something else. Yeah, I
mean me personally. I Uh, That's why I say to you,
I think I think being upfront is really the best,
the best way, you know, and it really just like
(27:57):
sit down with the person that you care are about
enough to sit down and have this conversation with and
have a real heart to heart. One other question, um,
somebody wrote in I'm on the road to recovery, but
relapse is one of the hardest forms of shame for
me to carry. How do I let go of that?
That's a good question, and that's that's an issue that
(28:17):
I still wrestle with myself. UM. I mean I have,
I have a lot of guilt and shame surrounding UM
many years of my life. And and it's interesting because
it's it's it's there. So I'm I'm learning now how
to start to let let go of that, UM. And
(28:41):
you know, I think for me when I start, you know,
filling that guilt and shame a little stronger than usual.
I tried to, you know, I tried to just let
myself know. I mean, look, no, nobody knows ourselves better
than ourselves, right, So if you know that you're doing
your best and that's all you can do. Uh, and
(29:05):
if other people are willing to forgive you, then you
need to be willing to forgreak yourself. Well, I we
have to take a break. But thank you so much
for sharing and being so vulnerable. I know that even
reading your book, and I know how many lives you're changing,
and so Thank you. I really appreciate it. Thank you
for having me. Hi, Jason, how are you. I'm good,
(29:35):
How are you good? Thanks so much for coming on today.
We really appreciate it. Well, thanks for having me. I'm
excited to be a part of it. Well, I have been,
you know, I've been researching you a lot the last
couple of days that I'm you know, blown away with
all the work you've done with um your sober living
facility because a lot of our listeners that is a
(29:55):
huge question that they're asking, is you know, my kid,
my honor, my son or my husband. You know, this
has changed and they don't want to go into a
sober living facility. And I was just kind of wanted
to start with that and how important that is. Well,
I just I'm more than happy to discuss that. I
wanted to let you know I am no longer actually
(30:15):
doing the sober living stuff. I'm very involved with aftercare
and all those components, but my actual will we actually
stopped doing the aftercare piece. What I wish we did it.
It is still very very important and it's something that
is is much needed, but I've directed my, you know,
my efforts into a much more advocacy role much feel
like it would be a much It's much more impertinent
to be able to do stuff like that. But I'm
(30:37):
more than happy to talk about anything related to you,
substance to be, mental health, recovery, whatever you want to
talk about. So perfect Well, I guess let's just start
then with how are you doing currently? Honestly, if things
are any better, I'd be in heaven. I mean, I
I'm living my best life. You know, I've I've been
able to really achieve balance in my life. I'm able
(30:58):
to live in the moment, be pre event, got an
amazing family, an amazing wife, uh, and really making an impact,
you know, on people's lives that struggle with this disease.
And it's something that you know, I really found my
passion through through recovery. It's just been it's incredible. I mean,
don't get me wrong, There's been its ups and down
through the way, you know, through the process, but overall, Um,
(31:18):
you know, things are absolutely incredible right now. Um, do
you feel like it's still a struggle every day? I
had um Cameron Douglas on right before you, and we
were talking about how he's able to remain sober and
he was saying a huge part for him is a
routine and that's what corrects him, you know, you know,
(31:41):
for lack of better words, accountable to feeling good. Um,
is that similar case for you? Well, by the way,
I love Cameron, great guy, great story, by the way,
But I mean this isn't this is not alcohol was Um,
it's alcoholism, right, So I mean it's something we have
to work on on a daily basis. And to his point,
you know, I do have a every single morning I
wake up, you know, I do a morning meditation, I
(32:03):
do a prayer, I send out a gratitude list to
it's ten other individuals of three things that I'm grateful for.
Not only what I'm grateful for, but why because the
wise were the meat really lies to help you understand
that not only do you have a lot to be
grateful for, you that you actually have more than you need. Uh.
And then either I go to the gym or I
go to a meeting. Uh. And that's how I start
my day off every single day. Don't steer away from it,
(32:24):
because you know, when I was active in my addiction,
it was something that I worked on seven to remain
high and under the influence, and when you are sober,
you have the same effort in to maintain or maintain sobriety.
It's so crazy that regardless of what what it is
in life, if it's an addiction or depression or anxiety,
following a routine is what actually always makes you feel better.
(32:47):
But it's the one thing you really don't want to
do it. It's it's what do they say, it's much harder.
It's much easier to break. Uh, it's much harder to
break a bad happiten, it is a good one, right,
But I think it's in this in this world that
we live in today, we're so prone to instant gratification,
you know, where there's so much influence out there, and
I think a routine really draws you closer to self,
(33:07):
so you can actually identify who you are and what
it is that you're wanting to pursue. And that's what
I've gotten out of a routine is really self identification
of me. I've got the best part about sobriety for
me is I've got to know I got to know
myself because for so many years I didn't know who
I was. I was so lost, Uh, you know, and
I had no, of course, of what direction I wanted
to take when I was under the influence that robbed
(33:29):
me of everything that was important to me. Um And
you know, through sobriety and in recovery, uh, it's allotted
me to get to know self and really pursue the
things that I really love and enjoy. And something else
that I was talking to Cameron about that I wasn't
sure if it would resonate with you as well. We
were talking about having like you were on the Laguda
(33:49):
Beach or the hills when all of this started, right,
so you had a lot of you had the financial
ability to be able to do these things, And I
was saying out the same thing kind of went with Cameron.
Do you think if you had less money it would
have been less prevalent in your life or do you
think it wouldn't have mattered You would have figured it out? No,
it would have. I mean, at the end of the day,
(34:09):
wouldn't have mattered. I mean I came from a very
successful family, if you will, I came, but I also
came from somebody, you know. I came from a solid
foundation of of you know, I had good morals, good values,
was raised right, had parents who were unbelievable. I mean,
definitely the same added fuel to the fire. But ultimately,
before any of that stuff happened, I mean I can
even identify when I was thirteen or fourteen years old,
(34:31):
without having to utilize subs, substances or drugs, I noticed
that I had, you know, underlying issues, whether that was
self or self esteem, uh, you know, and many other things.
The question anxiety. I struggled with O c D at
a very young age, and all those things kind of compelled,
but there was nothing. There was not resources or outlets
to be able to talk about that. Even just you know,
fifteen years ago. Uh, compared to where we're at today,
(34:53):
I mean, we've progressed so much more, and you know,
just being able to reach out today versus back then
is in a totally different spot. Uh. You know. The
money piece definitely, you know, I mean it made things,
it it heightened it, But I mean at the end
of the day, that wasn't the core issue. And a
lot of questions were coming in that, you know, they
have somebody who's struggling with addiction that as in their
(35:17):
life and they are every time they try to talk
to them. The person is super defensive. So now they're
feeling deflated, like is there a kind of like how
to or is there any kind of or information that
you can share with those out there they're struggling to
communicate with that person in their life. That's a very
very good question. I think at the end of the
day is is people need to get educated on on
(35:40):
the disease of addiction, right. I mean, there is no
such thing as recreational use of heroin or meth or
drinking a bottle of vaka they or you know, snorting
whatever it may be, taking a bunch of valume or benzos, whatever,
whatever your drug it's choice is. So I think it's understanding.
You know, addiction does not dictate who we are, but
it does not justify our actions. And I think it's
imperative that people approach us and it's like any other
(36:00):
disease that you know that this is it's got to
come from love. It's got to come you know, with
with compassion and understanding, and you know, because it's it's
somebody that's gotta wake up every day and utilize one
of those drugs to get through their day. Obviously they're
in a very bad spot. So I think it's it's
really coming from it with with love is a big
piece of it. But also, uh, setting boundaries and knowing
when you're contributing to to when you're benefiting somebody versus
(36:23):
when you're causing more harm, because that's a big factor
in this is wherever there's an alcoholic or an addict,
there's a codependent, and sometimes they're just as sick, if
not sicker, meaning that they you know, like for example,
my parents many times kept throwing pillows. They were literally
loving me to death when I should have fallen. And
you know, again is when I was willing to get
support or get help to be able to be there
(36:45):
and support me, whether that's your friends, family, whatever it
may be. But also when I'm in a place where
I'm not wanting to do that. You don't want to
enable negative behavior. So how do you know if you're
enabling versus actually being helpful. I think it's setting it's
clear line boundaries with it is is setting up, and
it's it's getting Sometimes you have to get clear cut
direction from individuals as well, because that's the thing is
(37:05):
this disease is so multifaceted, right that sometimes it's it's
imperative you get outside counsel with this, because when you
have it, when you're just a mom and a dad
trying to play you know, the mother or the father
figure to your son or daughter or whatever role it
may be, it's outside your scope. It's just like when
you're dealing with somebody that has cancer, You're you're you're
trying to do as much as you can to get
them to the right place right And I think sometimes
(37:26):
that's that's the place where it's it's it's if you're
a spot when it's that deep and you don't know
if you're contributing more harm or good. I would highly
advise that you seek outside help to really help you
with that. And that's because it's it's they want their
mom or dad or whatever the relationship to be, to
have that support from that person, not trying to be
the professional. Well I had read, um, I think you
were arrested something like eighteen times. That accurate a lot,
(37:51):
a lot a lot of times. What was your final
like actual uh you're breaking point? When were you like
I'm done? I mean I know there's been a relapse,
but I what was that point? And what do you
think is is a way that Yeah, go ahead, I
call that my moment of clarity, right where I really
identified and surrendered to the disease and that I admitted
(38:13):
that I had a problem, that I was willing to
get help. Uh. You know, because this for people that
don't know my story from you know, the ages of
seventeen to years old, I went to fourteen different treatment
centers from Florida, Hawaii, every state between, you know, as
arrested multiple times. Uh. You know, obviously went through a
very public battle with addiction. And what that led me
to is is all those times and we can talk
(38:36):
about you know, going to those different treatments and all
those things. They instill different things along the way, but
the biggest thing is that I was not willing or
motivated during that time. And what really transitioned is, you know,
addiction not only took me to the deaths of contemplating suicide,
but actually attempting. So I was at a spot where
I had I was not wanting to live any further. Um,
and this draw me back into a spot where I
(38:57):
was actually in the therapist office yet again with my
mom and dad. Um and my parents who play a
very pivotal role in our lives. Uh. You know, my
dad somebody that I look up to a lot um
and I've never seen him break down before, but I'll
never forget. In two thousand ten of July, uh you know,
he sat there across uh for me and my mom
in the therapist and you get just go, look, we
(39:18):
don't know what we're gonna do anymore. Um, you know,
we're lost. Uh you know, our marriage is suffering. Uh,
you know, and we're like two planks of wood waiting
for the phone call that you're dead. And like when
he said that, when he you know, painted that picture
of them waiting, being a lane in beds waiting, you know,
like two planks of wood waiting for the phone call
and I'm dead. Whatever it was, there was some form
(39:40):
of There was just a moment of clarity. Like I said,
I was in a spot where I had no motivation
to want to do this for myself. And I don't
want to sound contradicting, because my parents were the motivating
factor for me to have some form of willingness, which
translated into me being able to obtain recovery and really surrendering. Um.
So that was that moment when I kind of like
something click. A light came off on and I said, look,
(40:01):
I know I don't care enough about myself to do this,
but my parents and family and close friends became my
motivating factor. And that's what you know. It's transcended into
multiple months of sobriety for that reason. And then over time,
after I actively arrested disease, after I got stabilized, uh,
and it was really living a life and recovery. It
became something that I actually wanted. And that's the thing
(40:22):
I think a lot of people that understand is is
when somebody is active in their addiction, they don't they
lose the right to make their own decisions. They are
not thinking correctly. The way that somebody's frontal cortex operates,
which is your your executive functioning skills in your brain
does not work. And that's why there's got to be
a disruption to this process. Whether it's through and you know, intervention,
or whether it's people getting arrested or something that's major's
(40:44):
got to happen because they're not thinking correctly. And like
I said, being I was not in the clear state
of mind going to this therapy session. It was really
kind of like a come to Jesus if you will,
trying to figure out what direction we're going to take.
But it was that moment where you know, I saw
them being very vulnerable. Uh. And for me it was
a Godshop moment because that's that's the moment that changed
(41:05):
my life for the better. And I have a lot
of younger listeners, and I was overwhelmed with how many
people wrote in you know, I'm sick of this person
asking me if I'm struggling in addiction. I I love
to go and party and I'm just hanging out with
chicks and I want to do that. You know, it
became like it's this big social thing and they're kind
of defensive about it and they're wanting to know how
(41:26):
to get these people off their back. But my question is,
how do you know if you're in that stage where
you're telling yourself, I'm just having fun, I'm parting recreationally
that like, no, you you probably have a problem. Well, look,
I mean something that I go by is personally is
there's no normality and escaping reality. Right. But for those
that are out there, because I'm not against people that
(41:46):
can enjoy and have recreational use and enjoy it themselves,
but I look at it. If if I look at addiction,
whether it's drugs, alcohol, sex, gambling, food, whatever it is.
If whatever it is you're struggling with is derailing you
from your hitting your ultimate goals, that's knocking you off
balance of where you want to be in life, it's
something to identify with, right And do you think you
could even A lot of the time you hear, oh, well,
(42:07):
I don't even know what I want to do in life,
so this is fine, this suits me for now. You
do hear that. But at the end of the day,
it's it's you're not giving yourself the best best opportunity
to reach your fullest potential when you're under the influence. Uh.
And I think again, is is what are you taking?
What you know and how often you're using I mean,
there's so many different studies and statistics that are out
there that you know, doctors are's actually evidence based, you know,
(42:28):
things that are coming out today. You can actually take
a test to see, you know, I mean, you can
take a test to see if you struggle with substance
abuse or alcoholism. There's different things out there. Oh there,
I didn't even know that. That's amazing. Yes, So what
I can do is after this, I'll send you. You know,
there's specific there's twelve questions on being an alcoholic. Uh
you know if if you struggle with alcoholisms, if you answer,
(42:50):
you know four out of these twelve questions, you probably
have issues with alcoholism. So I'm more than happy to
say please. We will definitely post yes. And then I
know that you are are um married and you have
a daughter. Now, so congratulations, um I thank you very much.
Um So, I have a two partner, but I ask
you the first one. First for in regards to parenting,
(43:12):
how do you think that you will talk to your
daughter in regards to alcohol or drugs or whatever it
may be. God, you had to go there, such a
loaded question. Well I want to know now for my kids.
I'm like, I need to you know. I think it's
such an important conversation that we all tiptoe around. I
mean I remember like just thinking, okay, I just I
(43:34):
don't want to die. I'm scared to try this because
I heard this happen to one person, but that was
just fear based. But I had no actual knowledge where
I have other friends that tried everything because they were
like told, oh, it's just like blah blah blah, and
then really they're trying you know, meth. All right, Well,
so no, I mean that's a it's a great question.
And I think from from my perspective and everything that
(43:54):
I've gone through and what I've learned, you know, I've
got very educated around the disease model of this, and
it's both behavior and biology player role into addiction. You
know that that classify it as a brain disorder. That's
kind of what I've come up with. But I think
with that being said, to break that down is the
evidence based modalities that we've seen is there's actually studies
(44:14):
out there if that if you can actually have somebody
stay away from drug use or alcohol use until they're
twenty one years old to let their brains you know,
almost fully develop, they have a chance of not having
addiction issues. So that from what I've learned, I mean,
in my household, when Delilah is you know under our roof,
I mean, she's not gonna be utilizing you. I'm not
(44:35):
gonna be the parents that's gonna let her experiment or
do things like that because you know, for me, is
with what I've learned today is we have that evidence
to show that you know, and that that that time frame. Uh,
it's so imperative that we steer clear of that stuff
in the potency and the different types of drugs that
are out there are there, they're that's so different from
even ten years ago. So I mean, the way I'm
(44:56):
gonna approach it is let her know. I'll be open
and vulnerable, let her know what the struggle is that
it runs in our family, um, you know, and I
will be very transparent with her to to let her
know that this is something that is is that I
had to deal with and that it's affected us tremensally.
And again it's thank god she's too right now, and
I think we're on a spot where're gonna have so
much more knowledge and education around this every year that
(45:17):
goes on from here. But I mean, the main thing
is is there's not gonna be any drugs or alcohol
in my house well when she's when she's under our roof,
and she could be upset about that, but based on
the scientific evidence, I want to give her the best
opportunity that she possibly can. And more moreoverly is I
want to instill in her that you don't need drugs
and alcohol to have fun. I mean, drugs and alcohol
(45:39):
robbed me from everything I love. I grew up in
the Gouna beach, grew up surfing, skateboarding, snowboarding, wakeboarding, uh,
you know, playing baseball, all the things I love. And
I stopped doing every single thing when I started using heavily.
And you know, I'm out here. I'm sitting in choir
right now, you know, And I'm on a surf trip
with somebody and stuff, and I mean, I get to
(46:01):
embrace life. Like there was a whole crew of us
that went out to dinner last night and all of
us were sober, and it's just so funny to people
watch and just to see what people think is fun.
I think there's this a false perception on what is
really a reality. You know, I want it is false,
it's reality. And in that in that same vein, like
is there certain things like okay, I don't I don't
(46:23):
know if your wife has a glass of wine, or
if you're filming the hills or any of those things.
Are there any triggers for you now that you're just like,
I need to get out of the situation, or how
do you handle that? If you have been triggered great
question is you know there there are it's it's the
trigger or the obsession to use. It can be very overwhelming.
But I basically when I go into a situation, it's
(46:43):
like my wife is very mindful, she has a normal
She can have a glass of wine, take it or
leave it. You know. When we first met, what really
drew me to her is how supportive and dedicated she
was to helping me in my recovery. Because she literally
stopped drinking for over a year to support me in
my recovery back in two thousand ten. And that showed
her dedication to it. And today she's very mindful. She
(47:03):
literally asked still to the say or you know, you know,
you're good if I have a glass of wine or
you know, and we communicate. Communication is key. But if
we go into an environment like I like the hills
and going back into relapse, because that's you know, relapses,
something that that that happens um and it's something to
be mindful of. But it's any time I go into
a situation where I know there may be an uncomfortablelity,
like for work or different things, I have an exit strategy.
(47:26):
You know, I have a couple of guys that I
let know of the environment that I'm going into. Uh,
And then I you know, I may need, may need
to reach out to them, uh, you know. And and
I let my wife know. I communicate with her if
I'm feeling uncomfortable. And if i get to a spot
where I'm really, you know, very uncomfortable, I'll tell my
wife we've gotta go. And and your most recent relapse,
(47:47):
what do you think was the driving force that you
were able to stop again and recommit. Do you think
it was the fact that your wife gave you an
ultimatum or I don't know what what the case was,
but I'm just asking you know, this will well this
We'll just give you. This is something that for me
is is it was not even related to the obsession
of substances or different environments. This is actually something else
(48:09):
that I was never privy to and I never really had.
I never had an issue with body imaging, if you will.
Like I said, growing up, I was always active, athletic,
was always in shape to some degree, even when I
was in my addiction. They ever got super out of shape.
But this time, after I had gotten out of treatment
and was sober for you know, a length of six months,
you know, six months, uh, you know, I actually had
gained a lot of weight from the last time of
(48:31):
your body just doesn't you know, as you get older,
obviously your system doesn't work as well. And and I
had gained a lot of weight, and I was super
uncomfortable in my own skin. And you know, every day
when you wake up, you know, and you take a
shower and get ready, what do you see? You see
yourself in the mirror. And I didn't reach out about that.
It was something that was new, uh for me, which
was imaging stuff and and being you know, bloated and
(48:51):
this in a you know, I thought my system would
would come back in and obviously being on camera that
did not help. That made things very uncomfortable. And as
opposed opening up and talking about it, I isolated, and
ultimately it took me back to using. And when I use,
it was a one day thing. But when I woke up,
you know, I sat there with my wife and we
had a real conversation about what the issue was, and
(49:13):
she understood it, and she she did not you know,
she also she understood what was going on, and she
in the love and support from her was huge, but
it was also like a motivating factors like I need
to be able to be there for my daughter, I
need to be able to be there for my wife.
I need to be an example. Um, you know. And
I also know where this takes me. I played the
tape out it trust me that the using and drinking
for me, it's not fun. Drinking and using used to be.
(49:34):
It used to be, uh, you know, fun, It became
a lifestyle, and then it became a way of survival.
So whenever I use, like if I use drugs or
out call, there's no fun left in it. Uh. It's
in a spot where it's very dark, isolated, uh, and
not wanting to be present. Uh. And the only way
I know to be able to deal with that stuff
is to identify the issues. That called a triple A modality.
It's it's it's awareness accepted in action. If I'm not
(49:57):
aware of what's going on, I'm not gonna be able
to accept what's happening. And if I don't accept what's happy,
and I'm not gonna be able to take take action
on it. So I pause in that moment, I really
identify what's going on except what I need to do
so I can take the appropriate action to better the situation. Well,
this is so interesting. Thank you so much. I I mean,
I think it's interesting that you brought up the body
(50:19):
image issues starting to happen, because that was another big
thing that people are wanting to learn about, is different
food addiction, body issues and how that can translate into
so many different things in our life. So, UM, I
thank you for being so vulnerable with us and sharing
with us today. And UM, please if you can send
in that information for our listeners and regards to if
(50:42):
you know, if they're struggling with alcoholism or any of
those types of things, that would be amazing. I'm more
than happy to thank you for your time. Jason just
paired with the Red Songbird Foundation. The foundation just announced
its scholarship program that will donate a hundred thousand to
it's the treatment of someone with mental health or substance
(51:02):
abuse issues. Find out all the info at Beach House
Treatment dot com slash Scholarship. Wow, that was such a
great conversation and how amazing that both Jason and Cameron
said the key to staying sober for them is in
(51:23):
the routine meditation exercise. I mean, that's pretty eye opening. Um,
but I also wanted to read through those questions that
Jason said that you could look through, because I think
it would be helpful. Have you ever decided to stop
drinking for a week or so but only lasted for
a couple of days? Yes? Or no? Do you wish
(51:43):
people would mind their own business about your drinking stop
telling you what to do? Yes? Or no? Have you
ever switched from one kind of drink to another and
the hope that this would keep you from getting drunk? Yes?
Or no? Have you had to have an eye opener
upon a way akening during the past year. Do you
drink to get started or to stop shaking? That is
(52:05):
a pretty sure sign that you're not drinking socially? Do
you envy people who can drink without getting into trouble?
Be honest? Doctors say that if you have a problem
with alcohol and keep drinking, it will get worse, never better.
Eventually you will die or end up in an institution
for the rest of your life. The only hope is
to stop drinking. Has your drinking cause trouble at home?
(52:27):
Do you ever try to get extra drinks at a
party because you do not get enough? Do you tell
yourself you can stop drinking at any time you want to,
even though you keep getting drunk when you don't mean to.
Have you missed days of work or school because of drinking?
Do you often have blackouts? A blackout is when we
have been drinking hours or days which we cannot remember.
(52:49):
When we came to a A, we found out that
this is a pretty sure sign of alcoholic drinking. Have
you ever felt that your life would be better if
you did not drink? Many of A started to drink
because drinking made life seem better, at least for a while.
By the time we got to a A, we felt trapped.
We were drinking to live and living to drink. We
were sick and tired of being sick and tired. Wow.
(53:12):
So I think that that's an important quiz to take.
I mean, there's so many different matters we can get
into in regards to addiction, from social media addiction to
food addiction to sex addiction. Um, please write in whatever
it is that you want us to talk about and
we will get into it. At Teddy t at I
(53:33):
heart radio dot com. Thanks for listening, Thanks for listening.
Subscribe to radio or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Teddi Mellencamp
Tamra Judge
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