Fear Factor

Teddi unravels the mystery of Fear.

Whether you are afraid of the dark or afraid of death, we are discovering why we are afraid.

If you are filled with anxiety or simply afraid of mice, Teddi is answering why.

With experts and those who seem to have no fear, we answer why are we afraid.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Hi guys, Hi chin, thanks for joining me
again this week. Thanks for having me. So I figured
we should just talk a little bit about fear. Is
fear the unknown? Or is it fear of death? Or

(00:26):
is it just anxiety? Do we need to face our fears? Like,
I mean, I have a lot of questions involving fear.
Do you have a lot of fear? No, I have
a lot of anxiety, So I kind of want to
clear it up. Am I afraid? Am I fearful? Or
am I just like a type a anxious person? Right?
And do you are you fearful for your kids? Like?

(00:47):
Do you have different fears that surround them? Well, it's
not necessarily fear. But like I don't let my kids
sleep over other people's houses. Why just because I can't
control it? Right this because and you know, you hear
stories of things that happened to kids on somber parties,
and you know, I may change my mind when they
get older. But like when parents asked me, I'm like, no,

(01:10):
you're well, your your child's welcome to sleep over my
ass and I let them over, you know, Like, and
I it's it's not that I it's weird. I never
think in my mind, oh, I'm scared that something terrible
is going to happen. Necessarily, I don't even let myself
go to that place. Right. Just my husband and I
are like, no, just bottom line, bottom line note. We

(01:32):
don't need to go down the rabbit hole. I don't
need to make this parent feel a certain way, but
just no. And I don't know if it's partially because
um my daughter has some medical things, like she has
rheuma toward arthritis, so she has had seizures before, and
I know how scary they were for me in the moment,

(01:53):
so I don't It's not I don't want to say
I don't trust other people, but I don't want to
have to put that rust into another parent. Right. You
wouldn't be able to sleep. I wouldn't be able to sleep.
I would be worried. And I mean, I remember that
moment waiting for twelve minutes for the ambulance to come
the last time, and I'm like, I don't want another

(02:16):
parent that this is. I don't know. I just I
go crazy about it. I just can't even say yes.
And my daughters at the age where she's starting to
want to write, and I'm like no, you're welcome to
ask your friends to sleep here, but it's not happening.
She's like, Mom, but it's always one side, and I'm like, well,
it's to be that way. I mean, I truly think

(02:36):
that some of my fears aren't fears, they're just like
logical parenting or life life NG I agree, but I
also think that I mean, there are a couple of
different thoughts that, you know, like fly through my head
during the day, worrying about Rocco and I think, you know,

(02:57):
and I always think of the worst thing ever, and
I try and let it go, like something's going to
happen at the school, or there's going to be a fire,
and I can't get to the school. What's going to
happen to him? And that's a real fear because I
can feel the anxiety coming on when I start thinking
about it. But I then tell myself, like, that's not

(03:19):
going to happen, let it go. But it does happen
at least once a day, it does. See that doesn't
happen to me. Mine always stem from something so like
if my kids go to sleep with a fever, and
like I've given them tail and are they've gone to
the doctor and they've started antibiotics or whatever it is.
I won't sleep because I'll need to go down and

(03:40):
check multiple times to make sure that they are doing okay.
But that's because I was given a specific reason, and
then I maybe overdoing it because of that reason. But
I don't know if that's fear or just like I
have all of the information and now I am going
to probably helicopter parent a little bit. Well, I think

(04:01):
we have to. I I feel like I have a
healthy fear of the ocean, and I've always taught Rocko
did not turn his back on the ocean. I don't like.
I hated when he would just walk out of the
ocean without seeing what's going on behind him, because the
ocean is so powerful and we have no control over it,

(04:22):
to where I was so fearful of it that I
made him wear a life jacket until he was about
four or four and a half when we were at
the beach, even when he wasn't in the water. Do
you want me to make it worse? Okay, So we
were in Cabo and uh we went down to the beach.
We just checked under the hotel. I asked the lifeguard.

(04:42):
I said, Um, is the flag up that we can
swim right now? And he's like, yeah, the flags up.
You're good. We're you know, because some places in Cabbo
you can't swim at all because the tides are very strong.
So Cruz was still in his life jacket, and then
the girls and I just went in. We barely went
to our knees the there was a drop, and meanwhile
my husband is outside of the ocean videoing us, like

(05:04):
we're just got to the beach and I'm not kidding,
We're like drowning. Oh my god. Like we immediately get
sucked under the tide. I remember just pushing the kids
up to the top and I am like freaking out,
like I'm like and then I'm trying to yell, but
I'm like I made drown. I'm like, help Edward, I'm drowning.
And he's like he doesn't realize what's happening. He's like

(05:25):
giving us the thumbs up because you can't really tell
on the ocean. I end up. You know, Cruz was
the best of us because he had the life jacket on,
but he was the most scared. And then the girls
I just kind of push out and it was just
like one of those terrifying experiences where the girls were
immediately like more cool, but like that wasn't that was
not there. There was no chill in that, Like that
was no fun. I don't want to go in the ocean.

(05:46):
And I'm like, yeah, neither. Cruise was like next level
afraid and still is and he was the one affected
the least, but he was like that was frightening because
I think because he was the closest to me and
he could sense my fear. Oh I'm sure, Like I
just overall like I was like, I don't care if

(06:08):
I drowned right now, but these three kids need to
be okay. And then I walked out and then I
was so angry, like it went from fear to anger,
like how did this happen? How? And then I see
them switch the flag not five minutes later, and I'm like,
how did this happen? How could they let a mom
and three kids get into the ocean when it's like
and then I so it was first I was mad

(06:29):
at other people. First I was afraid, Then I was
mad at them, and then I was mad at myself.
Why did I just blindly go into the ocean? And
you know, and then you start second guessing yourself and
then you get into that entire spiral. And to be preferenced,
we didn't go into the ocean again while we're on
the trip. I wouldn't have either. Yeah, we went on
the boat and we went in the pool and all

(06:49):
those types of things. But we were like no, because
when you're in that moment, you just don't know what
to do. But that don't to me, that's like irrational fear, right,
that is something that happens from something We all still
talk about it, like, you know, to this day, traumatized,
like we're like remember that time we almost drowned, Like

(07:12):
it was like it's one of those moments. But I
do think that some people have fear of the ocean
that that has never happened to them. So that's what
I'm confused by. Maybe it's is it learned from hearing
this story like today, Sorry guys, if you're extra scared now,
because I just the story. Nobody is going to go

(07:32):
into the ocean never again. Here's here's a question. This
is Mark the producer. Hi, everybody, Um, so there's three
these I think these are facts. We are parents today
are more umbrella e and helicoptery and snowplowy than ever before.
Kids today have more anxiety than ever before. I gotta
believe those are related to each other. And I gotta

(07:52):
believe that the first one, the anxiety that parents, stems
from the Internet and local news that is only existing
to terrify you, right, Yeah, I mean also social media.
It's all over everywhere. Every abduction, every terrible thing that
happened to somebody is going to be on social media.
So I think those three things combined to create and
I don't know what that does the future generation. And
we'll also just the fact that there's apps for everything.

(08:15):
The other day there was a million people, like a
million cops driving near my house. Um, I've seen people
getting arrested. And I had somebody there that I was
working with and they're like, oh, do you have the
citizen app? And I'm like no, and they're like, oh, well,
I'll just pull it up. And they pulled it up
and they're like, oh, there's a potential kidnapping four houses down.

(08:36):
But the fact that you have that knowledge every break in,
every every armed you know, burglary or kidnapping or everything.
We're just we're bombarded with it and but there there's
no follow up and then so like I never I
went on to check again like two hours later, like
what it was, and it never told us. So like

(08:58):
I tried to like get out there what was happening,
Like I was like walking out like trying to see,
trying to ask the cops. Nobody. Obviously they're like, get
out of the way, crazy lady. But I was like
I need to know, like I need to know how
scared we need to be. But just having all that access,
and there were complete strangers that don't even live on
the street pulling up, that have the citizen app that

(09:20):
chase after these kinds of things. But it's creating like
our need to know, and I don't even know if
it's just become something in us it is because even
so the neighborhood that I live in has a resident
Facebook page, and I swear I hear a helicopter for

(09:43):
half a second and everybody's posting what's going on? Who
has the hotline number? Somebody called the Chopper hotline. That
one is another one that my wife. So I was like, oh,
you can't. We can no longer pay bills by sending
in checks like well, so I have to for the doctor,
I just send a check. You can't do that because
somebody three blocks over got their mail stolen and they

(10:05):
took their checking account number, and they stole their identity
and they emptied out their bank accounts. Something I can't
live my life like that. Are we setting up ourselves
to not be able to do anything without electronics and
we're powerless because we're afraid of the world. We're afraid
of everything, and we're instilling that fear on our children.

(10:26):
Know what else? I read that one of the biggest
fears that we have is loss of being disconnected from
our cell phones. Right, that is one of the Like
I looked it up. It's like that is we can't
even imagine. And to be perfectly honest, when I know
my phone is about to die, I'm not in a
good place. I'm like putting it on the low battle look,

(10:50):
I'd like need to charge now, just even thinking about it, like,
why does that? And that's a problem. I mean, we
know I never had a cell phone growing up, and
I mean even the fact that my seven year old
well has genuinely looked at me and gone like, mom,
do you think for my eighth birthday, could get a phone. No,
like I don't want you on the iPad. I don't
want you on the phone. I don't want you learning,

(11:10):
I don't want you becoming playing roadblocks with a roadblocks
or whatever it is with random strangers. Like that being said,
my parents were like, all right, be back before it's
dark ish. That's a good question though, so what is that?
Did our parents not care that? Did they not have
the worst case scenario going through their brains at all times?
They didn't because they weren't bombarded with it. I really

(11:33):
believe news was so different than but stuff like with
Teddy what with her daughter having a fever down the hall,
that's the same as it was fifty years ago. I
think our parents may have been the same when it
came to illness and things like that. But when it
comes to just I I thought, I still in my
mind think it's Los Angeles, But now that I've spoken

(11:55):
to more people are like, no, it's everywhere. But I
really I got up, said hi to my parents, rode
my bike to school, would come home by dinner. That
was the rule. And there was no way I was
checking in or doing any of those things. Like you
gotta believe that. If there's a day that I'm working
and I haven't I didn't pick up my kids myself.
I've got that text already to day and I'm like, hey, Dana,

(12:16):
everything good, You got the kids, so you guys on
the way to gymnastics blah blah blah. Like I have
somebody who drops Rocko off in the morning because I'm
already at work and she has to text me drop
off one. Great, yeah, I mean if I don't hear
it were by three sixteen, I'm on the horn. I'm like,
all good with the pickup, Like my name's passive aggressive

(12:37):
and I'm on one like yeah, and then the one.
But here's the problem. Then that one time you don't
check something happens. Nothing terrible, but like, oh, you know
we're calling because you know this hat cruise forgot is
blah blah blah. You know. I'm like, look, this is
why I gotta be this way, and it just justifies
my bad behavior. But think about our parents just leave

(13:00):
the house in the morning and come back in the
evening without ever checking in, and they were fine. They
they didn't have anxiety and freak outs. And we have
another problem, like I can't even then, Like my parents
also didn't sit with me why I did my homework.
It was like this is a whole separate. I mean
we need but like I can't even do my daughter's homework.

(13:22):
Helping my daughter with her the first grade? Do you
know that makes me feel about myself? Like she's like
going through her math and she's like, Mom, can you help?
And I'm like I have to take a picture of it,
texted to like my mom, friends and like anyone know
how to do these word problem math things? Not me?
You know, like but that didn't happen. Also, think about

(13:44):
being a teenager. I look back and I wouldn't even
I would go out before my mom got home from
work on Friday and I wouldn't be home until midnight.
I mean I wouldn't have She had no idea where
I was. I could be anyway. Were tracking you, Yeah,
there's no tracker. There was nothing nothing. I mean there

(14:07):
was like I remember coming well. I used to tell
my mom, Like my mom, this was like kind I
kind of love that she did this because I think
I turned out better than the alternative. But all my friends,
they had really strict parents, so they would all have
to sneak out. I had to go out, but my
mom is like, listen, just tell me you're going to
sneak out, so I know, and then I'll let you

(14:27):
sneak out. But like, can you just give me because
I don't want to wake up and work, And so
then it kind of became a thing. I'm like, all right,
we're sneaking out tonight, you know, but whatever it is.
But I wasn't ever saying where I was going, And
if I was telling where I was going, I was
probably lying like really, we're just going to a field
to drink until the like security comes by and like
we run home. Meanwhile, my daughter like a trunk or

(14:49):
treat two nights ago with a family with a neighbor,
family that we know really well, what is a trunk
or treats? It's a trick or treat, but with people's cars,
it's a scute. It's cute. But she was gone for
two hours. I must have checked the app to make
sure she was where she's supposed to be five times
in that two hours, just to make sure everything's fine.
But it's getting worse. The more the outreach that we

(15:12):
have to check, the more we want to know that's true.
That's it's it's the tail wagging the dogs. It really
is like and it's now the control like I've honestly
turned into complete control freak because of it. Let me
see if you agree with this statement I'm going to make.
I believe that the world today is the same amount
of dangerous as it was fifty years ago. We were

(15:33):
just not aware of it. There were child predators, then
there were child predators now. Horrible things happened then they
still happen now, just no one knew about it. Do
you agree? Or has the world gotten more dangerous? I
really don't know, because I was so oblivious to it.
I you know, I was always taught like, don't talk
to strangers. Now there's full seminars on how not to

(15:56):
talk to a stranger. And I think it's so funny
you bring that up, because I say this all the
time that we were told as children, don't talk to strangers,
don't get in a stranger's car, don't answer the door
to a stranger. And sometimes they think, Wow, I just
ubered someplace home and then I postmated something, and it's

(16:19):
like I'm inviting the strangers to my home, to my
home now. Yeah, no, there's the level of places we
it's unbelievable. But I mean even you tell your kids
or you tell yourself like, oh, there's nothing to be afraid.
But there will be the moments that I'm in an
uber and it's like really late or something happening, and

(16:40):
I'm like, I should text somebody the license plate number
just in case, seeming a little sketchy back here, you know.
But then your mind just starts going, and then you
start googling who was the last person abducted in an uber?
Like is my uber gonna get mad because I said
I preferred? And then you have them drop you off

(17:07):
at the house before I got No, I don't want
to talk to you. I just want to get home safely.
But now I think you're mad, so then I still
make small talk. Kill me? What is wrong with us?
I know, I know, but yeah, but the number Another
big fear that everybody had was the fear of being

(17:29):
alone for the rest of their life. Oh that was
a common one, like a lot of people writing it.
You know, I've gotten divorced or I'm an empty nest
and my husband's passed away, and I have a big
fear of being alone for the rest of my life.
And you know what, I really understand that fear. I
do too, especially if they're they don't have a huge

(17:51):
um family or friends that they can reach out to,
and they're searching and searching, and that it makes me
kind of feel more alone when really now we have
the opportunity to reach out and be more vulnerable, and
there are apps and things where you can start to
communicate with more people. But it's you know, sometimes our
fears are so big in our heads. Like my husband

(18:13):
has a big fear of public speaking. Um, he's an
excellent public speaker, by the way he goes and does
huge conferences and blah blah blah blah. Like the way
he preps is a totally different way that I prep.
Like I if I prep, then I'm a desist. You
see me sometimes at the beginning of the show when
I'm prepping, I get tongue tied. I lose myself because
I have to just kind of go off the cuff.

(18:35):
That's who I am as a person. But he is
a person that really preps because of his fear. But
then you would never know it, Like he had does
this amazing speech and he comes down, I'm like that
was incredible, and he's like you sure, I you know,
like I kind of went black, like your mind goes dumb.
And that will sometimes happen to me in press interviews too,

(18:56):
like if we were talking about the show or something
like that and somebody asked me something uncomfortable, I will
answer and do the whole thing, and then I'll have
to come out and ask my publicist was that okay?
And she's like why, and I'm like, I don't know.
I kind of like blacked it out, like I got scared,
and then I don't know how I answered it right.
Is that fear or is that like fear of what

(19:17):
other people are going to think, fear of being judged,
fear of not seeing the right thing, fear of upsetting
people because now people also haven't a way to reach
you to tell you've pissed them, whereas before that didn't exist.
That fear of being judged by your peers, that's a

(19:38):
big one, especially with moms and their kids. And it's
like it's almost like with a lot of moms, if
the kids grades go down, you're not concerned for their education.
You're concerned with the other parents are going to think, yeah,
for sure, I mean it's your faults. Well it's not,
but you're taking it on as But also we I mean,

(20:01):
our kids have started developed. This isn't really a fear,
but just things that are un comfortable. All of a sudden,
my daughter told me, can you not kiss me at
school anymore? Because the fear of what hurt the other
kids in her The other moms don't walk in, they
do drop off. Can you not kiss me at the place?
You know? And I'm like, and today she actually gave
me a kiss, and I got all excited, like and

(20:23):
she's like, this is why, Mom like but that it
starts so early, it does Like what did somebody say
to her to make her think I shouldn't give my
mom a kiss goodbye at drop off? Yeah? We don't know, don't.
You couldn't have made that up on your own. Right

(20:45):
at home, you're the most loving, like cuddling, you know,
it's something that somebody is set. Yeah, that's got to
be that fear of fitting in the kids going through
and we all remember that moment. How old is she?
She's seven? Yeah, I mean I think I think I
went through that older. But still every kid goes through
that moment when their parents become embarrassing. I thought, she
asked me today, and then I come here like this.

(21:06):
She goes, you're going to wear this and drop off.
I'm like yes, and then I'm going to iHeart so
thank you for making me feel bad about Then I'm
going to a business office. Then I had the fear
fitting in here guys, So sorry. All right, Michael Stevens
is on the line. You've seen some of his minefield

(21:26):
videos on YouTube. Yes, I am totally freaked out. I
can't wait to talk to him. Michael, Hello, Hello, how
are you? I'm good things, How are you? I'm not
too bad? Excited for Halloween. So do you think that
the majority of fear is taught or learned? I believe
that all fears are learned. I don't think anyone is

(21:47):
born afraid of anything. We are, of course, born with
these innate aversions, things that are like in our DNA
for us not to like pain. You don't like pain
from the moment you're you're born, disease fall. We have
re flexes that kick in when we fall. Um, all
of those things were innately a verse two, but when
we connect something new to those a versions. That's when

(22:10):
we have developed a fear. And I I mean I
just I looked out before today. The acronym for fear
is false evidence appearing real. But when it comes to pain,
that's not false, that's real. It's it's not false at all.
And if we weren't averse to pain, our species might
not still be here. So you know, in the right dosages,

(22:30):
fear and version are really helpful, right, And what is
fear and what's your gut instinct? Oh? Man, um, I
mean they're pretty different things. Fear is this emotional response
we developed towards something in our lives, Like I can
become afraid of needles because I start associating pain and
disease with them. But a gut instinct, I mean, that's

(22:52):
a I don't know, that's a feeling of you know,
I'm will to take a risk. I believe in this thing.
I'm not afraid of it. Right, So do you think
that all fear? I mean, I saw I saw your show,
so I do know all fear is relating to death.
But in my case, I truly feel like I am

(23:15):
more afraid of the unknown versus death. Like with my faith,
I'm not really scared to die. I am worried about
what would happen to my kids if I were to die.
But I am not afraid of death. But I am
deathly afraid of the unknown exactly. I mean, that is
case in point for why death is not, in my opinion,

(23:38):
the scariest thing. Not everyone scared of it. My grandmother,
who recently passed away, was ready. And faith gives you this,
this belief that you know, man, I don't you know
all when I die, that's God's will, So you know,
take me if you want me, right, There's something scary
about death to many people. So in the episode, I
wanted to find what would even scare those people, because

(24:01):
I wanted to find the true, the true scariest thing.
So I have a question about kids though, because kids,
you know, I've noticed with my seven year old some
of his friends aren't afraid of scary movies, something like it,
uh the Dark um or roller coasters. Yeah, my son

(24:25):
is afraid to watch scary movies, is afraid to get
on a roller coaster, even though he's had good experiences,
and is afraid of the dark. So what is that?
I have no idea, you know, I think it's a
good thing, though. It takes all kinds for us to
have a society. We need people who are brave and

(24:46):
maybe even fool hardy, and we also need people who
are cautious. Right to what extent, being afraid of roller
coasters when you're seven depends on the experiences you've had,
the psychology of you know, your parents and your environment
versus just what you're born with. That's still a really
open question. Um right now, there's a lot of investigating
of whether creepy quality spiders and snakes are in a

(25:09):
native version that we're born with or a thing we learned.
I kind of side on learning because there are people
who just aren't scared of them. You know, their job
is to take care of spiders and snakes, and they,
you know, don't. Spiders were actually the number one thing
I did an instagram just like what are you guys
most afraid of? And I'm not kidding it was spiders. Wow,

(25:33):
that just makes me feel bad for spiders. Honestly, they
can't help that they exist. But how do you come
Do you need to face your fears or can you
just live afraid of spiders? Well, you know, you can
live afraid of spiders. I think it's good to be
a kind of afraid of things. But once a fear
takes over your life, once it makes your life worse. Um,

(25:54):
and it's unreasonable, irrationals Now it's a phobia, and that's
not good. You know, exposure therapy can really help. We've
all heard about this. So you're afraid of elevators, Well,
what you need to do is just write a bunch
of elevators. It will be tough at first, but eventually
it will become boring and you'll realize, hey, I'm board,
which is the opposite of being afraid. This is awesome.
I'm cured. Well, does slight fibbing to your children count?

(26:18):
Because my son is scared of elevators, but he is
fine if he thinks a professional elevator conductor is inside
of the elevator with him. So I had to tell
him that I got my special license. So I like,
show him a little license. I'm like, look, buddy, I'm
good to operate this elevator. Blah blah blah. But that
gives him peace of mind, because before we came up

(26:40):
with that system, he would honestly see an elevator or
see we would go in somewhere and he'd have an
idea that there might not be stairs, and he goes,
I don't want to go anymore. I don't want to
go to David Busters because I think there's an elevator
there and there's not going to be a stair option.
And giving him that almost false assurance is an have
to get him an elevator. Yeah, you know, that's fine.

(27:03):
I think our lives are built on false false assurances
like it's going to be fine, you know, expect to
the worst, but prepare for the best, or however that
saying goes. You know, we're all, you know, having to
have a little bit of faith in things because it
might not be okay. But if you focus on that, um,
you know, the talk of a great life. Are we

(27:23):
actually addicted to fear? Like do we love to hate fear? Well?
I don't know. If I would say addicted to fear,
I would say that we really enjoy it, and we
have been built to enjoy it because it helps our
species survive. If we didn't like being scared, we wouldn't
practice what it's like to feel threatened. When you see

(27:46):
a horror movie, your heart rate goes up and dribble
in pumps. But deep down you know that it's all pretend,
but you still get to practice what it's like to
have your body in that state of fear, and you can,
you know, yell at the screen, don't do that, you know,
don't go upstairs, blah blah blah. You literally are practicing
and preparing for when a real threat occurs. And that's

(28:06):
really useful. Oh that's interesting because you know, I've noticed
a lot is that we can love parts of something
but fear the other half. So like oftentimes you'll hear
people saying, oh, I got a beach house because I
love the ocean, but I don't go in because I'm
afraid of sharks drowning or getting lost at sea. Uh
huh yep, So what what is that? Oh man? It

(28:29):
is just the fact that we are full of multitudes, right,
Human beings are so complicated. It's why I love psychology
because it's never going to be done. I believe that
we'll find a theory of everything in physics before we
figure out what the heck love is, let alone fear
and why you can love the ocean but not when
you're too close to it or when you're in a boat,
you know, um, And it's hard to study these things.

(28:50):
Psychology is difficult. If I want to study you know, protons,
I can literally smash them together in a particle collider,
but I can't smash two people together. Look at what's
in side that benethical so hard to investigate psychology and
human behavior. Should fear be seen as a weakness, No,
not at all. In fact, it's the strength. It's why

(29:12):
we have survived for so long. If we and our
ancestors weren't afraid of things, I think we would have
taken risks that may have led to you know, kids
not being made, and then kids and then finally us.
So it's an important part of being able to survive
on a planet full of threats, fear and then how
do you overcome in a safe way. For some of

(29:33):
our listeners who are very afraid of spiders or the dark,
or elevators or in my case, I'm very afraid of
parking garages. And today I had to switch which parking
garage I had to come into, and I was all
repped up, like maybe I shouldn't go, Maybe I should
park down the street and walk, Like I had come
up with all these things, and I was like, I
don't have the time. I just need to pull into

(29:54):
this parking garage. But like, how is a way to
overcome them? Example, I just went into this parking garage,
but sometimes like if I had the time, I wouldn't
have right, So how well, if you have the time,
then you don't have to go into the parking garage
and you shouldn't be ashamed of that. Um if you are,
then exposing yourself to it safely can really help. You know,

(30:17):
go into parking garages but with friends, right, with people
who support you, and you will um become more and
more familiar with them, and exposure therapy like that can
reduce a fear. Um. But you know, I say, if
you have the time, you don't have to do things
you don't want to do, and you shouldn't be afraid
unless it actually affects the quality of your life and

(30:37):
you want things to change. What if somebody's like become
like agreaphobic or those types of things. Do you think
those start out small and just turn into a way
bigger thing? Like do you think it only can? And
you know, I'm not a psychiatrist, but I can speak
from my own life I think that these things snowball.

(30:58):
If you're afraid of going out, then you go out less,
which means you're exposed to strangers and people in public less,
and it just gets worse than worse. It still with
anxiety and all of that, So it's it just, yeah,
it becomes bigger. And you said that we weren't born
with any fears, So is there always an incident that

(31:20):
links us to our fears? Yeah, there there is. I
don't know if it's always just one incident, but you know,
take the fear of the dark. We are not born
with a with an aversion to darkness. Our DNA doesn't
contain that, and it's a good thing it doesn't, because
it's pretty dark inside our mom's wombs. Right. So, um,
but once we developed an imagination, um, what is that?

(31:43):
Around like the age of two, you know, obviously it
varies from child to child, but you start to be
able to as this little kid go, wait, there might
be something in the darkness that, um is that? And
I can't tell what it is? And now you're aware
of the unknown and you can imagine what might have
up and now you're afraid. So sometimes it's not even
an experience. You don't have to be hurt by something

(32:05):
in the dark. You can just start imagining that it's possible,
and that's enough to become afraid of something. Right are
our dreams and nightmares? Are they are subconscious fears? Oh? Man,
I wish we knew. Um. You know, my favorite theory
about dreams is that it's about memory. That it's about um,

(32:25):
short term memory being kind of filed away or deleted,
and as these messages are shared between short and long
term memory, UM, parts of us that are still kind
of awake try to make sense of all these things
and try to imagine, well, this must be happening. I
don't know why, why the you know, hippocampus is sending
me this thing about you know, my mom. I must

(32:46):
be talking to her. And that's what I think that
a dream is when they become scary. Um, I wish
we knew more. Um. We did an episode of Mindfield
about trying to actually record people's dreams movies by looking
at how their brain act when they're watching a real
movie and then learning how to read their brain state

(33:08):
to figure out what their dreaming. And it's it's really crazy.
There's a long way to go. But I mean, it's
hard to answer a question about our nightmares are fears
when we don't even know what the heck of dream
or a nightmare is. Still. Have you seen that movie Fearless?
I just watched it Friday night. It's it's an older
movie with Jeff Bridges and where it starts off with

(33:32):
a huge plane crash and he ends up fearless. But
it was really weird that I watched this on Friday
because it was really is there such thing as being fearless?
And does that just mean, I mean, in lack of
a better word, like do you no longer have any
protection of yourself? Yes? There is there is fearless for real.

(33:53):
I haven't seen the movie, but I should watch it.
In the documentary, What's the scariest thing, we finally have
to deal with a very rare condition where people um
as they grow up, they have some genetic disorder that
causes the amygdala in their brain to um carawl apart
to degrade, and when they're adults, they don't have functioning amigdala.

(34:14):
And as it turns out, the amygdala UM is the
part of the brain that learns fears, and these people
we know of three of them. They all have pseudonyms.
Their identities are not public because it wouldn't be safe
for this to be known. But they cannot feel fear. Seriously,
you jump out at them in the dark and they
will just be annoyed. They are not scared to find.

(34:35):
I know it's hilarious, but it's a weird life and
they know that it's wrong. And so this patient called
s M came forward um and the researchers were like,
this is incredible. Um. We always thought the amigdala was
important in uh connecting aversions to new experiences and creating
a fear. And you don't have amigala. Um, so you're

(34:58):
right and you're not feeling fear. There is, however, still
one thing that even the three people we have found
who do not have a magala can panic over, can
actually feel fear over. And so in the documentary that
becomes the I think the best answer for what's the
scariest thing with all of the technology. Now, you know,
when we have Generation z s and we have millennials,

(35:20):
and I think our kids are zers because they're so little,
are they going to have a different set of fears
than we do? As you know, adults, there's already a
brand new phobia that's emerged called nomo phobia. Nomo phobia,
it is the fear of not having a working cell

(35:40):
phone with you. Decades ago, that fear didn't exist and
couldn't exist. But now there's a new normal, and so
we have this innative version of the abnormal. But what's
abnormal changes as time goes on, as new generations come in,
so theaters are always evolving. Wow, thank you. That's so
I didn't even think about at but all of us

(36:00):
are suffering from that. Sure, I feel guilty about it,
but it's like, well, I don't know. I mean, my
dad was afraid of, you know, things that I'm not
afraid of because it's not important anymore. Um, but it
was when he was my age, So I don't know. Um,
it's kind of exciting. Um. But yeah, here will continue
to play a big part in all of our lives. Well,

(36:23):
thanks so much for talking to us today. We really
appreciate it. My pleasure is great being on Bye bye bye. Okay,
we are back now with the King of Pain. Rob

(36:43):
came men Olivia. I mean, my very first question, I
just need to know why and how did you get
into this? That's a very fair question. Um. I think
me and my co host Adam Thorne both have a
fascination with nature, and so we wanted to see what
these bits and things can do. We've both been bitten
on accident in our personal lives while handling animals. I'm

(37:04):
an animal handler, Adams a wildlifeologist, and so we thought
we'd take it to the next level. But I don't
think we realized how far that next level is about
to go. Well, I have to say, I just watched
your snake biting video, which like, now I'm like looking
at your arm and I see a little scar. I
never had a fear of snakes, and then I just
watched that and I was like, you know what I

(37:26):
might be the next hike, Like, I'm not really interested.
I don't need I think you called it a fang
Like I'm good on the fangs going into my arm.
I how do you when it's about to happen? How
do you not like run away? Oh? Yeah, well it
is very scary, and that's not what we want. We

(37:47):
don't want you scared of snakes, but but we also
don't want people just picking them up. Willy nilly like
you see a lot of people doing nowadays. They think,
oh I saw this on YouTube and this guy was
picking up this snake, and then they try to do
it like the next thing. They're in the hospital or something.
So we want to balance um. For me, believe it
or not, the snake was not the scariest one. We

(38:09):
knew how much damage you could do. But Ab and
I both love snakes. But we had that sort of
informed dread of knowing how bad this BikeE could go. Um,
which for our listeners, how bad could it go? The
typical python bite is not going to be too bad.
You're talking to some puncture wounds and a lot of blood.

(38:30):
But if you pull away or if the snake the
size of twist, then you're talking huge lacerations. You're gonna
you're gonna look in an arm and see meat and
flesh and whatever else wants. And that's what it did, Adam.
It it twisted its its body and just shredded them
like a cheese grater. Yeah, it's pretty bad. Mine didn't

(38:51):
look so bad. But with any of these projects, there
is an element of danger that we cannot really control.
And one of the teeth not really things Uh, pythons
don't have things, but they're they're bigger than snap things.
One of them clip my older nerve and that was
something we tried to prevent. We did in an area

(39:13):
of a lot of muscle. But these python teeth on
the reticulated python are huge. How big are they? The
one we did was sixteen foot. Uh supposedly they get
twice that. You just don't see that in a while.
We were really lucky to get a sixteen foot so unlucky.
But for somebody, like you know, I did a little

(39:33):
pole on my Instagram like number one fear and surprisingly
to me, a number one fear for everybody is spiders
and like they are deathly afraid of spiders, Like even
the thought of a spider is putting them into a tailspin.
How working around animals and working around knowing what they
can do, how do you face those spears without being dangerous? Well,

(39:57):
that's funny, say spiders, because that was my number one
phobia for many years. Believe it or not, a lot
of snake guys are terrified of spiders. Stop that phobia
come from I don't know, They're so gross, very sick now, Um, yeah,
it's just something about these very little things that can
run around in any direction. You can't really predict, no

(40:19):
control over them. I had I live in an area
in a canyon, and a year ago there was a
huge brown recluse that had built this huge web. So
I called one of my friends from Montana because I
figured they would know what to do, and he said,
put your hair up, put a winter hat on, put

(40:40):
a big sweatshirt on, get the broom and pretend you're
about the bases are loaded and you have the last
hit in the World Series game and let the broom
go with it. So I did it, and it worked,
knocked a home run. I totally thought a year I

(41:01):
wasn't so afraid of spiders anymore. I was like, Oh,
I've got this. I can do this because you took control.
Well until like six months ago when I was watering
the plants and I look up and there's a same spider.
I think maybe it was different because I'm still alive.
But so I tried to spray it with a hose

(41:25):
and it felt my hair and I had a jumpsuit on.
Went down the back of my jumpsuit and started biting
my back like fifteen times, and I couldn't strip on
the like my patio, I would have been a nudist.
I ran into the house and I was like, ah,

(41:49):
I mean it was Now I'm terrified. I'm like petrified.
If I opened the door and I see a spider,
I'm like, oh, I can't go outside, I can't go
to work. I don't even learn what kind of spiders
they are. Like if I see one like we've had,
we had them kind of back because I think it
was hot, so then we had to have somebody coming

(42:09):
in spray. But I don't I see a different colored one.
I'm like, I don't even want to know. Like if
I know that, I'm going to be in a worse
situation than I am now. So I'm just going to
pretend that this spider is like not a problem, even
though it's bigger than my face. They've been really big.
They've been ginormous with like dots, yes, but don't tell
me what kind it is. But but when it comes

(42:30):
to animal, when it comes to knowing that something terrible
can happen to you, how do you sit in that well?
Because we're doing it for a reason, and um, we're
creating a scale of how bad the pain hurts, how
long it lasts, and does it cause any damage. And
so when you were bitten by the spider or someone

(42:52):
else has bitten by another animal, if it's something we
put on the pain index, it really helped people not
to panic because panics, the number one killer pull, do
all kinds of stupid stuff when they're bitten by animals.
People get bitten by rattlesnakes and start cutting open their
arms and just making it worse. And so we're hoping
to arm people, and so that kind of gives us
a little extra courage. There's a there's a reason for

(43:13):
it because the whole uh more big curiosity that Adam
and I went into this with that's gone, that's originally started,
was it to help people? Are really like we need
to know. I think I think I think the real
reason we started was that was to help people. But
I think for us personally, we just wanted to know.
We we had so many questions and um, we've answered

(43:34):
a lot, but we have a lot more questions after
doing this because what's the biggest answer you've gotten? Ah,
that is unpredictable. Um, this guide, this, this index will
be a really good guide, but it's never gonna be
right on because everyone reacts differently, and so, uh, we
would like when people get bitten to look up that

(43:55):
animal that we've already been bitten by and see what
to expect. At the same time, you know, maybe go
get medical help, don't panic because some people react differently.
A lot of times I'll be fine, it will hurt
and then there's no big reaction on my skin, and
Adam will be turning like red as a beat And
it's just because everyone reacts differently. Have you thought of
hiring assistant take on the bites when anyone listening if

(44:19):
you want to get a stunt double, I mean, I
I just don't know. I get the helping people, I
understand that, but I like just got sweaty hearing about it. Oh,
I just I don't think I could just stick my
arm out and know that it's coming. Yeah, there's no way.
You've got to dig deep. But you know what you do.
Both of us getting bitten and stung by every animal,

(44:40):
one of us goes first, one of us goes second.
How do you choose, Well, we choose by who's more
scared goes first. Oh, that's that's a good idea. It
kind of does you disservice because you're scared and you
have to go first, so that's terrifying. And then the
second person who wasn't as scared sees how bad it
was for the first guy, and then he has going

(45:00):
second is the worst, believe it or not, especially with
a bad bite. You just see the person suffering for
an hour and then he's like, Okay, I think I'm
ready to sting you now, are you ready? And since
you were younger, did you always have this curiosity? Um, yes,
you know you get bitten stung by stuff as a
little nature kid running around all the time. But maybe
ten or fifteen years ago I got a job at

(45:22):
a reptile store and as part of the audition for
that job, I had to get bitten by a giant
Tokay gecko and I was like, this thing is gonna
take a Probably not they got closed down today. They
didn't do that. At the I Heart interview when I
for my podcast, they were like, you have to see
if you're going to get I mean, that is crazy.

(45:43):
Get some gecks if you want. Wow, I just can't
even I can't even imagine. And then so for the listener,
if they do have a fear of snakes or fire
urchins or scorpion, fish or bullet answer any of these things.

(46:05):
What should they do? Well? All I can give is
my advice on how I got over ragnophobia. And I
was sick and tired of flipping over rocks looking for
snakes that I loved, and then it'll be a big, fat,
freaking trantula or something there, and just I'm getting the
chills right now. Even so, I couldn't look at books
with trans so I started just putting my hand on
a book and and just praying, like God, it's not

(46:28):
a real spider I was. I was that terrified. And
then over time I started seeing spires in the wild
and I started touching them. You don't have to go
to that level, but just look at it. Looking is
very difficult getting out and you'll see when you watch
this show. Then these animals are coming after us, with
the exception of the hippos. That's another story, Oh my gosh. Yeah,
But it's when we started trying to catch them or

(46:50):
or grabbing them, that's when they hurt you. So if
somebody's out hiking or you're out in nature, don't go
trying to touch wild animals. They're there for a re
and leave them alone. Don't insta story. The mountain lion
maybe with a boomerang would look really good now, might
be worth it. But people are scared of rattlesnakes when

(47:12):
they're hiking on running canyon here in l A and
stuff um and they freak out. These things are not
that fast. If you stand ten feet away and can't
out run a rattlesnake, you probably shouldn't be jogging if
they're so easy. The danger is they're so camouflaged that
you step on them. But if you watch me are
going on the trails, you're fine. Well, I grew up
in the South and I was taught there was like
alligators or crocodile, I don't know the difference, but whatever,

(47:35):
there were those things and they would come out, and
we were taught as kids that if one starts chasing you,
that you have to run, but you have to zig
zag because apparently then they tried to zig zag and
then they have these big bodies. Was that like an
old wives tailor? Is that the truth? Like? Was I
zig zag running my whole childhood for no reason? I
think it's not that true. I've heard. I've heard arguments

(47:57):
of us. Well, here's the alligators strike really well to
the side and sit to the front. So when you
start zigzag and you're kind of lying yourself right now,
I was lied to. That is what they told us.
Even when we're on horseback, they're like, just keep it going,
but go like in the zig zag motion. Who who
started that? And who starts these rumors? Oh my gosh,
I don't know. They are rampant. There's nothing like dangerous

(48:20):
animals to start rumors that people will just believe right away.
Somebody looked it up. Yeah, I was dead sure that
that was correct information. Looking at you, I felt confident.
If you told them you didn't believe it anymore, they
would probably disown you. I'm going to have to do
some additional research on this topic. Oh my gosh. You know,
we always get like a mountain lion is spotted in

(48:44):
the area in the neighborhood, we'll get an email that
says things you should do if you come in contact
with the mountain lion, And the first one is always
make yourself appear bigger, how eat and what do you
meet like at your hands? Do you wanna what do
you do when you come in contact with a wild
animal like that, Well, it's something I predator like that

(49:06):
you want to look at in the eye. You might
not want to do that with animal who's defensive, But
how do you know if it's defensive or not? Good
luck now with with a mountain lion, look big, look
in the eye, mountain lion. It's it's smart enough to
know that. You know, you're kind of tall. Maybe you
could hurt me. Um, And so if you're looking the
eye like I'm ready to throw down, they're not going
to mess with you and put your arms up way

(49:27):
make noise. They're terrified. You know, we we walk on
two feet, which so animals think we're way bigger than
we really are. Well, I know coyotes aren't scared of
me because they get in fights or they're trying to
eat each I don't know what they're doing, but they're
very loud in the middle of the night. I live
in the in the hills, and so they will be
going at it. And sometimes I'm like, we are trying
to sleep around here. So I'm like, hey, they don't care,

(49:51):
they don't stop. I mean, if they're trying, like going
after something, that will be hours of them just screaming
at the top of their lungs and I'm like, there's
nothing that's gonna stop this thing. I'll try to whistle.
They don't care. Nothing works out now. They're urban coyotes.
They're like, yeah, go back to bed. Try Oh my gosh, Okay,

(50:12):
you guys have to tune in The King of Pain
Airs Tuesday's ten nine Central on the History Channel. Thank
you so much for coming, Rob, We appreciate it. Thanks
for having me. Wow, So it's Halloween wake. That's the

(50:34):
impetus for this fear topic. Seems kind of appropriate. Um,
there's a lot of fears when you're living in southern California.
We mentioned that earlier. How some are worse in l
A than others. And one is the fear of brush
fires because they are constant. And Katie Burr was supposed
to be here in studio, but she is stuck on
the four or five freeway because of these fires. Katie,
are you there, I'm here where abouts? I'm actually, oh,

(50:58):
you're down your south down there, but step bad. Yeah,
there's been a lot of traffic today. Yeah, the whole
city is a wreck right now because of these fires.
It really is in the traffic being diverted everywhere is
just making it congested everywhere. I know, even getting here,
I think because so many schools were closed last minute

(51:18):
as well, that you know, everybody's taking alternate roots, and
the people that have to get to work, they're like,
what am I going to do with my kids? Because
even if they're not affected in the fires, they don't
have childcare right, So it's just adding such a dynamic.
But thank you for calling in. Uh. I have to
be completely transparent that I'm a little bit of a

(51:42):
skeptic when it comes to the paranormal, unlike um gin here.
Who what have you recently just done? Well, I've had
to have my house cleansed by a professional twice. I'm
talking professional professionals speaking like straight from Egypt, speaking Arabic
and burning all kinds of different incense and making me

(52:03):
jump over a fire pot three times. And what do
you think of this behavior, Katie, let's jump right into it. Well,
what's going on at your house? Okay? So when I
was pregnant, which was eight years ago, I woke up
in the middle of the night because I felt somebody
staring at me and I looked over. I know, I

(52:25):
woke up. It was not dreaming. I saw an older
man looking down on me. He was standing right next
to the bed. And I just froze and said nothing
and didn't move and closed my eyes because I was like,
I don't need I just can't. I just I don't
know what's going on. I knew that it wasn't a

(52:47):
real person, but that it was some sort of entity
or familiar to you. He did not look familiar to me,
but he looked like Baseball era, like old, like he
had like had you just much of their own No, no,
so cuts. So the next day I called Aster. Her

(53:12):
name's Ester. How did you find her? Um through a
referral bag. So Esther comes over, she cleanses the house.
I'm pretty sure everything is okay, but you know what
she says at the end, she goes, oh my gosh. Well,
she kept walking into my bedroom and the whole flame
would go out on this mixture that she had, and

(53:33):
she said, something's wrong in here. She said she'd go
out and light it, come back in flame would go out.
I know it was really Also, my marriage was like
really ending or you know, so I was like, oh,
it must be the marriage must say. All of a sudden,
she goes, there is an old man in this house,
and he is we need to get rid of him.

(53:56):
So she did that and then nothing. Everything was great.
The house felt like fresh and airy and clear and everything.
And then my son was about two and a half
and he started pointing into a back room all the
time and he would say ghost. He'd say, who is that?

(54:17):
And I was like, Oh my god, esther come get
the ghost out? So I think we have another one.
I do Katie's not because she's a ghost there. Maybe
she does a ghost, but she actually spent two weeks
in an asylum that is said to be one of
the most haunted places in America. So it was it
fair to say that you are a believer. Oh, I'm
definitely a believer. I mean I have a little bit

(54:39):
of skepticism because I mean, you just have to you know,
you can't just go full into this stuff. And you know,
we all tried to disprove it first, because if you can,
you know, if you can't disprove it, then you know
that you're onto something. So it's good to have a
little bit of skepticism. But after Penhurst, I mean I
was a believer before, Uh, Penhurst, definitely it was next

(55:02):
level for me. Can you tell us about your experience there?
You know, it honestly was something that I just wasn't expecting.
I you know, I went into there and um, you know,
I've I've been investigating for about ten years now, so
you know, I feel like I've seen it all. But
when I went to Pinhurst, it was just unexpected experiences

(55:24):
that honestly, I would have to say were life changing.
I think it was life changing for all of us.
I think it made us all reevaluate ourselves as investigators
and just um, you know my take personally on protecting myself,
that's a big thing. I didn't really take that seriously before,
and you know, going to Pinhurst and kind of experiencing

(55:45):
just the darker side of things, I really started to
realize this is something that you don't play with and
you really need to go in there and just kind
of take a little bit more seriously, even if it's
just taking authority. And so in that pla nation of
what we can watch, Um on Annie, it says that
some of you experienced physical attacks and saw full body operations.

(56:11):
Can you explain that to us, so I didn't actually happen.
Um So, Funny enough, we have a huge skeptic on
our team, so Max is our he's our geologist, and
he's very, very skeptable, and uh it was really fun
for me personally to watch him have his first experiences. Um.
I was actually uh you know, sitting next to him

(56:32):
for a couple of them. So you know, I don't
know if he will admit that he's a bloater at
this point, but he definitely has questions. UM So that
that was really just a fun experience. But uh, you know,
other than that, you know, we did have some pretty
dark experiences there, and um, you know, obviously I can't
give too much away, but um it's it's something like

(56:55):
I was saying that it definitely changed even my view
and I've I've been around this stuff, you know, I've
I've been around um you know, darker energy for for
quite some time. But um it was just really unexpected
and um it really just it made me, uh just
rethink how to handle things. Um So, I yeah, seeing

(57:17):
like cool bodied operations like that, I mean it it
throws you off, you know for sure. Could it be
almost like a placebo effect? Though? Like you see it
happen to one person, you know, like somebody's like, oh,
if you take this medicine, then you'll feel better. And
then all of a sudden you take what you think
is the Thailand all but really it's just a vitamin.
You're like, oh, my headache is gone. Could it be

(57:37):
something like that? Um, you don't. You You might think that,
you know, you might think going into a place like that,
oh it's ominous walking and you know, you think you're
gonna sell all this stuff. But to be honest with you,
just from my perspective, I mean I went in there
thinking this is just like any other place that I've been.
And I mean it's it's definitely a huge campus. It's
a hundred and ten acres um. You know, it's it's

(57:58):
really spread out, and the building are you know, really
creepy looking. But I just really didn't feel like I
was going to experience anything different there than any of
the other places that I've gone. I thought it might
just be in a larger scale. Um so, you know,
not really looking for that and finding the things that
we found, Um, I can't say that that was something

(58:18):
that you know I went in looking for. Did you
all stick together or were you alone at times? And
what about the crew? I mean, you guys were used
to this, but was were the crews terrified? Um? Yeah,
A couple of people hadn't ever had experiences before, so

(58:38):
much like much like Max, it was fun to watch
them as well. But we were instructed actually when we
showed up at Penhurst to kind of stay in groups
that as things used to go off by yourself. So
I think that kind of added to the creepiness right away,
you know, because you don't know what talks back then.
I mean, honestly, stepping onto the grounds there, I didn't
want to be by myself, like I wanted to keep

(59:00):
of my team around like we had the buddy system,
um kind of walking around there. Um. So yeah, I
mean it was definitely fore voting atmosphere. Are there certain
days that paranormal activity really hits? Like? Is there anything
around Halloween that the listeners need to be worried about?
I think that might be the Poscemo effect. I mean,

(59:20):
we're right, Um, it's really it's not the day. It's more. Um,
I know people talk with a witchy hour and you know,
I I've kind of noticed that in my experienced um
that you know, things do kind of pick up around
three am, but not always. I mean I've had experiences
during the day, you know, ronty light when you're not

(59:41):
expecting it, and uh, you know it's not like, oh
it's Tuesday at like three o'clock, everything's gonna happen today.
You know, it's it's pretty random. I think it depends
on you know what I believe. You know, it goes
the energy to manifest, So I think it really depends
on the environment. It depends on what energy is there
for for them to feed off of. Can you explain
that a little bit more? Ghosts need energy to manifest?

(01:00:03):
So our energy, well, I mean we're all energy. You know,
everything around us is energy. So um, you know they
say energy cannot be created or destroyed, so when we die,
I mean they're still energy there. You know, your spirit
is energy. So uh, you know, you feel it's basically
need um, some sort of energy to feed off of

(01:00:25):
two kind of you know, manifest in whatever way, if
it's a shadow figure or a full body apparition, Um,
maybe just noise that you hear. Uh. You know, they
definitely feed off of their environment and and us as well.
What are some of the signs that an energy is
around you. I mean there's so many You can you know,

(01:00:46):
hear disembodied voices that you can you know, maybe feel
touched or just you know, if you're more sensitive, you
know something that I'm kind of realizing that I am.
You can just feel presence around you sometimes. And do
you think children are able to just because they they

(01:01:06):
still believe in the magic of what am I trying
to say? It's like they can they believe in they
have magic or well they have magical thinking, are they
Are they more apt to see a ghost because they're
not like, oh no, that was you know, oh that
was the pots and pans that just you know, fell

(01:01:27):
in the cupboard or something like that, like we would say,
you know, that is something I actually believe because I
think as we get older, we start still turning things about,
you know, as we get into adulthood. Uh, you know,
you start going into the kind of like societal norms
where you know it's not appropriate to you know, have
your imaginary friend or um, you know, to to experience

(01:01:49):
certain things. So I think kids are kind of unstilled still,
you know, and uh, they they don't they don't still
do that stuff out there kind of you know still
it's you're like what you said, like the magic around them,
like they kind of still play into that, right. So
is there like one of can you tell us a
little more about maybe a place that you investigated in

(01:02:12):
the past and some of the some of the experiences
that you had there since we're going to save the
asylum for our viewing pleasure, definitely it's worth the way.
Um yeah, I uh So the craziest place that I
had been to before Penhurst, um was actually a place
in Pennsylvania I did when I was on Ghost Lab.

(01:02:35):
And it was called Hillview Manor, and um it was
it's an old kind of abandoned hospital. Um or just
it was really like a home for the four uh
but it's just it's got the things that a creepy
factor that pan Hurst has on a slightly you know,
smaller scale. And um that was the first place, you know,
when when I did Ghost Lab, I wasn't really more

(01:02:56):
in channel with my side the way that I am
now for whatever reason, but um, you know, I I
walked in that place, and that was the first place
I could honestly say I walked in and I could
just feel the energy. I could just feel the heaviness
walking in there. Um. So it kind of prepared me
for Penhurst in a lot of ways. But one of

(01:03:17):
the things that happened while we were there, I was
I was kind of the ghost state of the team.
And they would put me in the in you know,
just different places, by myself. And they put me in
a basement by myself, and there was a big heavy
door that had been propped open. We've been there for
three days and the thing hadn't much and I was,

(01:03:37):
you know, sitting down there in this old creepy wheelchair,
and I had my video camera pointed at the door,
and the door just started closing on a phone right
in front of me. Did you scream? What do you do? I? Actually,
I'm not a screamer. I I freezed like a deer
in headlights. That's kind of my say. So I just

(01:03:58):
throw it, as you know, like I I don't I
get scared. I don't want to I don't want to
run away. I don't want to make any noises. So
I just I froze, and luckily I had my video
camera pointed right at the door, so I was actually
able to catch it on camera. Wow, I don't think
I could be an investigator. You would be getting a
lot of cleanses after that. That's important that That's one

(01:04:21):
of the things that pin Hurst kind of taught me
is that, you know, that whole protection thing like cleansing yourself.
Maybe there's something to that. But we were talking earlier
about fear and so much fear in our daily lives,
and fear with our kids, and fear everything from spiders
to your kid's sickness, your kids out of your sight.
When you're in a haunted situation and you're seeing something paranormal,

(01:04:43):
how do you control your fear? Do you have breathing techniques?
Like how do you get through that? I think that's
something that I'm still teaching myself. Actually, Um, I just
try to stay mentally strong. I just try to kind
of like talk myself through whatever is going on. I mean, obviously,
as an investigator, we're the ones running tour the activity
instead of away from it. But I mean, definitely their

(01:05:05):
situations where my fear gets the best of me. You know,
when you're not expecting something, which is you know so
much of the stuff, and I think it's important just
to kind of you know, ground yourself, stay in the
moment and just kind of talk yourself through whatever is
going on. And if one of your kids says they
see something, what is the best way to handle that
in response, like, what would you say as a parent

(01:05:27):
to your child if they say, well, I think the
most important thing is not to uh, you know, question them,
not to to make them feel like they need to
question themselves, because I you know, I've talked to already.
I think I guess there's so many people that you know,
have have grown into adulthood, you know, kind of being

(01:05:48):
ashamed of experiences that they've had, and you know, it's
it's kind of traumatizing because they know that they're experiencing it.
You know, whether or not you experience it with them,
whether or not you actually believe whatever. Captain sable keep
it And I think it's important just to really be
supportive of that. It just kind of talks in through it. Okay,
that was a hard pill for me to swallow, but

(01:06:09):
I'm taking it. Thank you so much, Katie. That was
so I everybody should tune in to the world's biggest
ghost hunt, Penhurst Asylum. It's it starts October eight p
m on Annie. Thank you guys for having me. I
can't wait to watch this. Oh yeah, it's definitely worth
the way. Good luck on the freeway. Thank you. I

(01:06:32):
did have reet Sorry I got by. I did have
one thing that happened to me when I was like
eighteen years old. Um, I had just moved to l A.
And Um, this was like before I started going to
church and all these types of things. Um. I went
to like a psychic that was I lived on Robertson
and I just like walked in because I was like,
you know, I don't know anyone out here. The struggle

(01:06:53):
is real. Like whatever, Um, I'm gonna go to the psychic.
So I went, and she told me all these things
out of them actually came true, like that I was
going to marry somebody with two first names. I've been
married twice and nobody has two first names. Um. But
she gave me these candles and she said, like, if
you ever really want to do like a cleanse or whatever,
she said, go in the bathtub and light these candles

(01:07:16):
and think about all the things that you want for
your future. And my sister was down visiting, so I
go into the bath and I'm like, I'm very serious
about I tell my sister. I'm like, do not interrupt
me for the entire time I'm in the bath. Listen,
I'm taking I'm doing these candles. I'm thinking about my future.
I need you to just know. She's like, okay, So

(01:07:38):
I'm probably five attendants into the bath and I hear
and I'm like what, And she's like, I just heard one.
I'm like, but as I opened my eyes, my entire
bathtub is black. And because well, I end up finding
out that the pipes had burst in our bill thing.

(01:08:00):
So I was like, I'm mud coming out through the things.
But like, we still laugh because then I'm like me
because I'm like covered and whatever this and she is,
I mean, we still laugh about it. She's like, remember
when you did your candles in the bath? They were covered?

(01:08:21):
Oh yeah, I thought that was a good time. So,
you know, but that was my last any kind of
discussion about that. But yeah, that's my my one and
only experience that it happened to. You know, anybody else
that was taking a bath at eight seven eight seven? Well,
you know, there's also um irrational fears, and we've talked

(01:08:42):
about a lot of fears here, and they're also the
ones that are bizarre, that are to us bizarre, and
we don't want to make light of them. But I
remember Tyra Banks to the show and she opened about
her fear of dolphins. She had a deathly fear of dolphins,
which you can live a nice life because unless you're
in the ocean, you're not gonna encounter a dolphin. But
it's a legitimate fear. We've asked this on our face
one of our podcast Facebook group a couple of times.

(01:09:04):
Here's a woman right here in herrational fear of Bendy straws,
and she's not joking. This is legitimate. She's afraid of
bendy straws. Another woman. Did they say why? Well, she
does recall a moment that in high school, her friends
thought would be funny to bendy straw her house instead
of toilet paper house or whatever. They bendy straw hear house.
They hung them in the trees like ornaments and skewed

(01:09:25):
them sticking up out of the ground, and she had
a massive panic attack cleaning them up, and she has
a hard time with them. I don't know if that's
I don't mean to laugh, but exactly. But here's another
This woman has a fear of band aid. She finds
them disgusting and sticky and they freak her out. My
daughter is afraid of stickers, really, she doesn't. She doesn't
use the word afraid, but she's like, I don't want it,
no thank you, Nope, I'm not interested in stickers. You

(01:09:46):
know they always give them to kids, like at the bank,
and she's like, no thank you, Like she does not
like that sticky texture. But what is that? Is that
just I guess it's just a techtile. I think it's
a tactile thing for her. I don't think it's like
a fear. But she's like not interested in what happens
when a sticker comes off and there's that like little residue. Right,

(01:10:06):
that's like a hard note for her, But she's like that.
She's funny about a lot of different textures, So I
guess that makes sense, but stickers is the only like
like actual item. And do you feel like you need
to fix this with your daughter. I'm totally cool with it.
Cruise and Bella like the stickers and slights like no
thank you, and I'm like, yeah, right, she's not freaking
out the screen, and it doesn't mind a bay of stickers.

(01:10:27):
She's like, go suit yourself and get all sticky breaks.
And of course we worked with somebody who was definitely
afraid of elevators, yes, and flying and flying in planes,
which I think is pretty common. Actually, I was with
her in Vegas when we took like seventy two flights
of stairs up to our room. Why do you also
have an elevator issue where you just being friend? No,

(01:10:49):
I just it was I was new to the job.
You just you're like, oh, we'll be We're just going
three floors. I'm sure it wasn't actually seventy two. But
I was like, oh, but I mean I really I
feel similar about my driving and my um and my
parking garages. But I my husband kind of tricked me.

(01:11:10):
He goes, teddy if I and I'm not even a
car person. He's like, but if I get you a
new car, do you promise to like start driving three
new places a week? And I was like, well, I
don't really want a new car. He's like, well, I'm
getting a new car anyway. But I you know, I
think you should start getting out of your comfortsen because
I would only drive. Yeah, I will only drive. I

(01:11:30):
used to only drive about ten places, like the places
like my kids go to the grocery store, the barn,
you know, my workout place you're going to park you yeah,
But recently I have, you know, the new cars just
added to it, where I've just said like, no, you're
you don't need to take an uber to go do this,
you know, But I do always have to do my

(01:11:51):
investigation first. I have to figure out where the parking is,
if there's ballet, if it's a parking garage. Like for
a while, I was like, I will just take an uber.
I can't. I came in an uber the first three
times I came here, and then I was like, Teddy,
you're wasting money, Like you could drive yourself. The parking
is validated. Like I started having to justify it to
myself because I'm like, this is actually a bigger problem

(01:12:12):
because I want to be able to leave here and
go run errands to the places I do like driving too,
and I'm creating a bigger issue in my life. So
I think that's the key. If your fear isn't making
a bigger problem for you, Like I don't think stickers
is a problem for my daughter. But sometimes not driving
because I'm afraid of parking does become a problem for me,
and I spend so much time thinking about the potential

(01:12:35):
of having to drive that I'm wasting my time. Right,
you could already be there. I could already be there,
Like why am I worried about this so far in advance?
Why am I trying to talk like I'm already I
have to go to the dentist on Friday. I'm already
Like maybe I should cancel the dentist, Like I don't
know if I want to go because that driving. There's

(01:12:55):
really hard parking in Beverly Hills. It is the uncertainty,
the chaos of it. Because I did that. I hate
going new places and where am I gonna park? What
I'm gonna do? And then you do park somewhere it's expensive,
and then how much time do you put into it?
I mean, I've been thinking about this since last week.
I've like almost called and canceled, Like it's not a
huge thing, but it's in the back of my mind,
Like should I just cancel? Like I don't really need
to go. I got my teeth cleaned five months ago,

(01:13:16):
but they told me to come every six months, like
should I cancel? Actually, now that we've had this conversation,
I'm definitely canceling. But but it's similar to addiction. They
say with addiction is if it's affecting your daily life,
that's what you need to get some help. If you're
not going to work because of your addiction, that sort
of thing. It's the same with a fear. If it's
throwing you off your game, then you've got a problem.

(01:13:36):
And I think sometimes it's okay to have a gut
instinct and to trust it, because that's what I mean,
even when we talked about in the past podcast where
the cults where they take away your gut instinct and
that's that's what saves our lives. So I think it's
good to trust your gut instinct. But if your fear
has now crossed over to every part of your life
and is making it so that you can't do something,

(01:13:58):
that's where you need to start that I forget what
what's the therapy called where you you touch it or
the um exposure exposure? Yes, and where you start the
exposure therapy so that you start getting comfortable with your
fear or even talking about it. Some people don't even
talk about their fears. Oh many people don't. Uh, well,

(01:14:21):
I'm afraid we're gonna have to and for today, Um,
but I'm excited to get into next week's topic. Which
am I allowed to bring it up? Yet? What is that?
It's going to be cheating? It's gonna be cheating. I
am very I want to talk to all different kind

(01:14:41):
of cheaters. I want to talk to the man who cheats,
the wife that cheats. I want to talk to the
mistress and why she wants to cheat. I want to
talk to I mean, I have so many questions. There's
been a lot of cheating things in social media, and
we need day and there are spouses that live in

(01:15:01):
constant fear of cheating justified or not, who never out
of the site. And also how much privacy or how
much freedom do you need to be giving your partner,
like is passwords and then track your phone? There's all
of these things. Is everything fair game once you're married
or is it? Do you still set boundaries? I can
say with certainty I could hand over my phone to

(01:15:22):
my husband at any point in time. If I said no,
I would think there would be a problem, right, And
what is cheating everybody you know, all this BS emotional cheap,
it's all cheating. We got to get into it next week,
micro cheating. We have things to talk about and we
want to hear your question. So right the man? Okay,
Teddy t at I heart radio dot com. Thanks guys,

(01:15:46):
thanks for listening. Subscribe to or wherever you listen to
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