Under the Influence

Is Social Media our best Frenemy?  Are we spending too much time scrolling, double tapping and swiping? What does it take to be an influencer? Are influencers a more honest form of advertising? Should we be FaceTuning, Vscoing, Photoshopping, and Filtering? Are we altering reality too much? Should we be panicking about our kids and social media?

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Teddy Teapot Within. Hi guys, thanks for joining
me again this week. So the question is the social
media a friend of me? What is it actually doing
to us? You know, in one of the last podcasts
we talked about addiction and the social media and addiction.

(00:26):
Sometimes when I look at my phone and it tells
me how many hours I've actually been on my phone,
I don't even want to look at it. And then
I tried justifying it and saying, oh, well, it's because
my business is on is on the phone, so that's why.
But it still makes me feel bad, like I cannot
believe I am spending this much time on my phone.
So we are going to have a group of people

(00:50):
coming in to uncover all sides of social media. We're
going to start with having Dr Hillary Goldscher on and
she is going to help us talk about the dangers
of social media. As you have seen, Instagram has put
us all into a frenzy because it's taking away our likes.

(01:10):
What's going to happen next? Does this matter? Is this helpful?
I need to know it all? So I'm excited for
this episode. We are going to have so many people on.
I'm actually gonna have Dr Hillary goldcher on with me
the entire time because I want to have a psychologist
view on all of the topics. We are also going
to have Jamie Kidd who is an influencer, and Alexis Haynes.

(01:34):
She has a podcast called Recovering from Reality and she
has a really crazy story, but also she has kids,
so I want to dig into that. And we also
have Rich Dumuro who is a tech genius. He knows
everything on tech, so we're gonna have to drill him
as well. I'm here with Dr Goldscher right now and

(02:05):
she is a psychologist who specializes in mental health, which
I feel like social media is affecting so many of
our mental health issues. What are your thoughts. It's so
interesting when I was kind of anticipating talking about this,
that that discussion in my private practice is so ubiquitous,

(02:28):
like the anxiety, depression, feelings of shame that come up
when one peruses social media and feels kind of an
obligation to participate and yet feels worse when participating, and
this vicious cycle ensues. And there's been a number of studies,
like empirical studies that show there's a direct link between

(02:50):
an increase in depression and anxiety, feelings of shame diminished
self forth related to social media for sure. And do
you think social media is helping or hurting our real
life social interaction? You know, I mean, I think there's
an argument to be made on both sides that's worth exploring.
I think on the macro level, it's hard to deny

(03:12):
that it's not hurting our interactions. It's so much easier
to kind of it's a cliche, but to hide behind
a screen and to present a sort of persona to
the world, and then to minimize our desire or interest
or even like our ability to interact with other people.
So I think it it It diminishes connection and reduces

(03:34):
the skills that, like our young people have to actually
be out in the world and connect with each other. Well,
that leads me to our next question. Do you how
young do you think it's too young for kids to
have social media? I'm like sixteen, maybe the earliest really,
But I mean I will look on social media and
I will see kids that are like fourteen and they

(03:56):
look twenty five years old and these sexy poses, and
I am like panicked for my kids. And in part
and this is kind of a weighted statement, but it's
a parental issue. I mean, I get that there are
ways to circumvent parents, you know, and to post and
do things that parents don't know about, but it's really
a parental responsibility to monitor that stuff and shut it down. If,

(04:20):
like you're talking about, you know, young females projecting that
kind of kind of image into the world, it's dangerous
for many many reasons. Yeah, I know, what would you
say the positives are? I mean, I look, I think
it's it's really interesting and and and kind of cool
for young people to have like an entrepreneurial you know,
kind of avenue and to run their own little business

(04:41):
so to speak. And I have a lot of colleagues, friends, etcetera,
whose young kids, you know, make their own jewelry on
Instagram and sell it that way, or who love to
play the violin and demonstrate that in a kind of
a cool way. Like, I think there's something about it
that allows as a platform for folks to show themselves

(05:03):
and that can be really interesting and fun. I mean,
I can say for myself, I changed my life through
social media because I was really struggling and I felt
very alone when I was struggling with being healthy, and
I said, you know, I started a new Instagram. I
used to share one with my husband. I just said, hey,
I'm changing my life today. Follow along if you're interested

(05:23):
to see if I can do it, you know. So
I used it to kind of hold me accountable, and
then that ended up starting an entire business for me
after I changed my life because yes, I had people
rooting me on, but I also had people following me
because they wanted to see if I was going to fail. Yeah. Yeah,
Well you bring up another point, which is the possibility
of reaching other people in a positive way and inspiring them,

(05:44):
motivating them, connecting with them in like a significant way.
Like you're talking about, it's a huge thing that wasn't
available to us before. Sure, you felt really alone, and
then you realized when you post something and there's so
many people that responding, I feel that same exact way.
Thank you for saying I felt so alone or whatever
it is. So that feels good. But then, on that
same token, how do we shield our kids or even

(06:07):
shield ourselves from bullying on social media. I'm not sure
there's a way to fix it, because the platform itself,
you know, part of what's so nice about it is
that you can connect with a lot of people quickly,
and part of what's not so nice about it is
that you can connect with a lot of people quickly,
So negative things can come to us. And I think
we have to be really strong with our kids and

(06:28):
ourselves about staying grounded and centered in who we are.
We're going to put ourselves out there that that is
a possibility, and it's one of the negatives and one
of the reasons, you know, circle back to where we began.
Why there's depression, anxiety, and upset that can come social media.
How much time do you think is healthy to spend
on social media a day? That's a good question. I mean, look,

(06:49):
I think as if you're a youngster, you know, under eighteen,
that it should be absolutely less than an hour. I mean,
to me, thirty minutes to an hour would be more
than enough. It's part of your business. You know. That's
kind of a different analysis, But to me, it goes
along with screen time. So if we think of social
media screen time and you're monitoring your kids screen time,

(07:10):
maybe like an hour. Yeah, but kids aren't the only issues.
Sometimes I'll look at my phone and how much time
I was on my phone each day, and I'm like, uh,
that is a problem. I don't even want to see that.
Thank you, Phone for letting me know I'm turning you over.
I think tech abuse is a whole other issue. Adult
tech abuse is a whole other issue that needs to
be explored because I I've done a recent self check

(07:31):
on myself realizing I have young kids and realizing that
there was too much multitasking with a phone in my hand,
and that not being fully present is a big deal.
And so I think we have to keep ourselves accountable
and that we have tech free time with our kids
and with our spouses or partners and with our friends,
like legitimate tech free time, and that's almost non existent

(07:52):
when you just kind of look around people moving through
the world, for sure. Well let's bring in Jamie Kid.
She is a huge influence start travel blogger and model.
So thanks for joining us this week. Hey guys, you're like, what,
Oh my goodness, So let's let's break this down. Can

(08:13):
you give us a little backstory? How did this start?
You're an influencer full time, right, and my husband is
as well now, so he wasn't before, and now I
kind of brought him into the world and it's like
it's great. I mean, I love it. So I've been
I've been doing it for seven years now. I started
kind of, I guess it. Instagram really started when I
was in college, so it kind of the app came

(08:33):
about and I was like, what is this? And I
just kind of started you posted whatever you wanted back
then with the Instagram filter, you know, and like no
one really cared about it. And then after college I
kind of just started posting my outfits and then from
there it just kind of grew slowly to like what
it is now. And I started traveling because my husband's Australian,
so I started going to Australia and then that started

(08:55):
the travel part, and then from there it just kind
of became what it is now. So for those that
you know aren't familiar with what exactly an influencer is,
like what does it take to be an influencer? How
much time are you putting into it? Like are you
fully having to curate your life on Instagram? I mean yeah,
and I like I deal with the stress of like
I start to feel guilty after a couple of hours

(09:17):
if I have it posted a story, or if I
like a certain time of the day I haven't posted
my photo or stuff like that, like I do end
up going, oh, I need to get up early today
so that I can like do these stories that I
wanted to do, or because I need to go, you know,
do certain things throughout the day that like, I can't
just sit on the couch all day because like everyone thinks, oh,
you have all your free time, and then if I

(09:37):
sat out sat around all day, like people would not
be interested in my page or something. You know, you
have to always be like interesting throughout the day, if
that makes any sense, and it stresses you out, like
whereas if you have a regular job, like a nine
to five, there are moments where you can kind of
check out and nobody really knows what you're doing. And
you're an influencer, like you have to be on and yeah,
and you have to think of things to be like

(09:59):
keeping people interested in your page and kind of what
you're doing all day long. So how do you know,
So somebody is following a bunch of influencers, how do
you know if an influencer actually likes the things that
they're promoting. I feel, I mean, I feel like again,
like I post so much throughout like the day and
stuff that I feel like you can genuinely see things

(10:22):
that I like or I don't like. Like if I
randomly posted like something that was so far out of
my realm, you could tell if I probably didn't like
it or not. Or if I'm like genuinely posting it
and then all of a sudden it's like a paid thing,
you'd be like, oh, I've seen her posting a lot
about hair stuff or skin stuff, so yeah, that like
makes sense. But if it's like randomly, you know, I
can't even think of something like that. I just doesn't

(10:44):
Brandy very off brand, and I feel like I just
didn't make sense. Then I'm like, I don't trust you
because I've seen it even change a little bit because
now you'll see influencers they're not even having to really
talk about the product. They'll like do a funny little
quote and then just like tag the brand and I'm like, oh, okay,
plugged in right there, I see what I see you. Yeah,

(11:06):
I know, I feel like like i'd like I only
take on stuff that I feel like is aligned because
at this point, like with my page, I don't want
my followers to not trust me anymore and not to
feel like, oh, she's just doing this to get paid.
So you have to like also think about the other
end of like people watching you, and you have to
know that, like they're not going to trust you if
you post something that's so far out of your realm

(11:29):
that they'll be like, oh, I'm not going to trust
her anymore. I don't want and then you you know,
you lose your followers. Essentially. I made that mistake once
I posted something I wasn't super into and I got killed,
like they knew like phony below so bad. I was like,
and I don't ever make me do that. Why did

(11:51):
I say I've learned my lessons? And I was like
right at the beginning, and I was like, I will
never do that again. I'm only going to talk about
things that I actually like. It's people are is very
like smart these days. Followers aren't just like buying everything
you post. They want to feel like you genuinely like
it as well, and they've seen it correlate with your brand,
so they're you know, they're smart. They're smart. I'm figuring

(12:11):
it out and they know you're they know a part
of you exactly how much time do you spend on
social media day and would you ever consider it an
addiction just a job. Yeah, I'm addicted to Like I'm
even addicted to other girls like what they're doing and
I'm like, they haven't posted in a few hours. What
are they doing? Why do I not know what's going
on in their day? Like I am guilty of it
as well, like on the followers end, So I mean,

(12:34):
but I spend a lot of time on the back end,
like shooting stuff, editing, making videos, like you know, all
that kind of stuff, So I don't I mean, I'm
pretty much on social media all day long because it
is my job. So like I kind of justified my mind.
Everyone's out there nine to five, soe five, I should
be working as well. Like I even I wake up
at four or five am, and I like do my

(12:55):
workouts and I post those like I'm pretty much like
sixteen hour days, which is fine, Like I love it,
and it's it's like semi easy in a sense because
like I've been doing it for so long, so it's
kind of just my daily thing now. So have you
noticed any difference now that Instagram isn't really isn't showing
the likes or has that happened happened to me? It

(13:18):
doesn't happened to me either, and I genuinely like to
see likes and like for me, when company, like when
all the likes go away, it's going to be more
annoying for me to have to screenshot things send it
to companies like I already have to do that with
all my analytics. So now when you add in more
screenshots that I have to email over whereas they can
normally just go see it, it's just adding like another step,

(13:38):
which is so now I have to ask you, Dr Goldcher,
do you think that's kind of adds to our addiction
that we want to see the likes or that we
need to see the likes, or that's some kind of
validation to us or to the you know, brands, or
of course, I mean, where else do we get such
a tangible like evaluation of ourselves. I feel like it's

(13:59):
a little bit of a a positive criticism also bad.
But if a photo doesn't do well, and then I
kind of go, oh, you know what, I kind of
that deserve to not do very well because I didn't
like make it really creative or I didn't really like
to do the best that I probably could have. Like
I feel like your followers followers also know like when
you when you're half asking it. Yeah, no, seriously, And

(14:20):
it keeps you accountable because I could just sit here
and stand in front of a white wall, take my photo,
post it and be done. But like if it won't
do well because it's not like a beautiful backdrop or
stuff that I'm really really good at, because maybe I
just got lazy that day and just wanted to get
that thing over with. And so it keeps you accountable
as well, like on the creative side, to not half

(14:40):
ask your content. But I think that's a really interesting
nuanced viewpoint, right, is that it is your career. Yeah
it is, and you're gauging part of the likes and
lack of likes related to the creativity and the art
that you're putting in. Yeah, exactly, because some of my
most like liked photos are the most creative photos I've

(15:01):
ever created, so obviously, like that resonates with followers that like, wow,
like you really like did it? Like you made like
a really artistic, beautiful photo. Obviously, the ad photos don't
do very well because you can't do like a creative
something with like a purse or whatever you know you can,
but yeah, like followers are more appreciative of the creative stuff.

(15:21):
So then that like gears me to do more creative
and like really work hard for those posts because I
wanted to do well so well. That leads me to
the next question. So I know, for myself, I will
read all the comments when it's on my actual post,
but I don't go into my d M s. That's
like a deep, dark, dirty place for me. I'm like, like,
go in. But I'm also on a TV show where

(15:43):
people have like big opinions, and I'm like, you know what,
I don't really need all of those opinions. Do you go?
Do you look at all of the d my d
M s are answered all day long? I cannot have
a re crust. It bothers me to no end to
go to sleep with any requests in there I answer
or I decline creepy ones. But like I answer every
single one of my followers all day long, and it's

(16:04):
like another level of an influence that I don't know
because for me, I'm like a TV personality or health coach,
so I don't have to do that. And I like
have to protect myself. Yeah see, and I guess I
get mean stuff too. And I really like I keep
my page very like Switzerland. It's very you know, I
don't must be well. I try so that I don't

(16:27):
get you know, political opinions are your religion. I don't
get a lot of that backlash in my page. I
keep it very like you know, middle ground, so that
I don't get a lot of the mean stuff. But
I have people who like I have cats, and people
decide something I did my cats a little overweight? Oh
I had, you know, And I'm like get await, Like
I know, I get really upset when people comment anything

(16:49):
about my kids. I'm like blocked. I'm like, would you
like somebody to say that about your kid? No? So yeah,
I get the block a few. But I spend all
day long talking to my followers answering questions. Is because
I want them to trust me. And I'm just a
normal person, like I'm not over here on my high horse,
like I'm too busy for you. Like I like, I
spent a couple of hours before bed answering everyone just

(17:10):
to make sure that like stuff like answers you know,
are answered. So you have to be honest, here, do
you ever post photos without using a filter? Alternation? Looking
at you, you are beautiful and you have like amazing skin.
So like I have to ask you, Dr Gouldcher, like,

(17:32):
what is it in us that we as a community
do this? Like I will even the girls here, no,
when we take our pictures, I'm like, hey, subtle filter please.
I mean, it's just this this human balance I suppose
of all of us wanting to put our best foot forward,
and I think there's a healthy aspect to it, and

(17:52):
knowing that we're going to be evaluated, you know, or
responded to. In such a huge domain, it's hard not
to have level of insecurity or anxiety and wanting to
kind of shure up what we're putting out in the
world to guard against. But it's crazy. Anytime I post
a photo where I have no makeup on and no
filter and I'm just like, hey guy, you know whatever

(18:13):
it is, Everybody's like, thank you, God, thank you for
posting now, oh wow, you actually have red skin? You
know whatever it is because looking at things, are looking
at a you know, an influencer, You're like, wow, their
life is perfect. There's they've never had a blemish. They've
never had this. You know, it's very hard for somebody
at home who maybe doesn't know how to use all

(18:34):
these filters. Well, you're revealing like the seduction of like
the pull towards the perfection and the beautiful that like
we all respond to, even well, I would even say,
like my page is like the perfect beautiful side my stories.
I'm over here with my face mask on and I
like never have makeup on and half my stories and
I'm like in my pajamas, Like okay, perfect that you're

(18:55):
giving the balance. Yeah, so people see that like I'm
a bum when I'm at home and then when I'm
on like you know, in a pretty photo, like obviously
I worked hard for that, but like I added them
to like make the clothes look really good and to
like bring out colors and stuff like that. But I
don't do you think that we should be required to
tell our followers when there's a filter or face tune

(19:17):
or whatever on anything, Like it's pretty obvious if you're
like honest, aren't they don't think it's obvious? Like I
don't post a photo with like the subtle filter and
everyone's like, how is your skin so smooth? And I
read back the subtle filter. It even says the filter
at the top, like sometimes you're like, come on, I'm like,
how are your lashes so long? I'm like, it says
I lashed exactly. They're giving us away, like do your research, guys,

(19:40):
No one's perfect. Um, how do you so? How do
you deal with any of the negativity? I mean, I'm
not gonna lie. It does get to me. I've had
a few, you know, upsetting d M s recently, or
someone's like, oh, your voice is so annoying, or like
why don't you put makeup on you look like like
I've had people say that, and I'm just like I
either block it and I get upset and it sticks

(20:01):
with me like I can't help it. It does as
a human. Negativity does, like stick with you in any
type of criticism. So I'll block them or I'll be like, hey,
you know, I'm really sorry that you're having a bad
day and you're projecting it on me, but I really
hope your day gets better and like you spread positivity.
That's what I'll say sometimes and then they'll read it
and then I block them because I don't want any response,

(20:22):
but I just want to share that, like, you know,
you don't have to sit here and fight back with
people and like whatever, either block it and just drop
it or say something nice back and maybe it'll change
their day and make them a nicer person. Yeah. I
used to say nice things back, but then people would
be like, I hope you die. And I was like,
and why do the people that always say the mean things?
Why is it just like an animal in their profile

(20:43):
picture or like no photos and you're like someone you're
somebody that hates me? You know, you know what you're not.
You're not fooling. And now that the likes have changed,
and I've even heard that some of the following, they
may end up changing it so your followers go away.
I know, I know. Do you ever fear that, like
your job slash life of an influencer will go away?

(21:04):
And it's like a constant fear of mine always. But
I also feel like, like, yeah, I'm terrified all the time,
like oh what if Instagram? Because there was like a
couple of months ago when Instagram was like frozen for
like two days. You guys remember that every influencer was
like brushing up on their resume, like what have I
done in the last six years, like oh my god,
you know, but yeah, it's scary. But I also feel

(21:24):
like I'm also trying to monetize other avenues like YouTube
and you know, I have a jewelry company, so I'm
like really focusing on those as well, so that if
Instagram ever craps out, I have other stuff that I've
been working on. And I didn't put all my eggs
into like one basket, which is like what a lot
of girls do. And then someone's account gets hacked and
they lose all their followers. What do you have? Like,
you have nothing? So I try to kind of keep

(21:47):
other avenues going at the same time. So we have
to take a little break, but I want to say
thank you so much to Jamie. If you guys want
to follow along, I mean I have, and I'm obsessed.
It's Jamie and Kid. So Jamie's going to stick around
and do some rapid Fire. But we're also bringing on
Alexis Haynes. She has a podcast called Recovering from Reality.

(22:08):
She also has a book coming out on December three.
Her story is incredible. I'm going to bring her back
at the end for some rapid fire questions. Okay, guys,

(22:32):
now we are here with Alexis Haynes, who has a
book coming out called Recovering from Reality. Y'all know I'm
gonna be needed to read this. Who also, Um, Alexis
has kiddos and very interesting backstory, So let's get right
into it. I'm ready, you're ready. Can you give us
a little history for some of our listeners that I

(22:54):
don't know your story? I know every little from Um. Yeah,
so a lot of people know me because I had
a reality TV show called Pretty Wild on E in
two thousan ten and I became kind of a part
of pop culture history. Um when I had an epic meltdown.

(23:15):
My sister said to me the other day, which I
think is so funny. She goes, it was like you
were having a Brittany moment on every episode, And that's
really what it was like. It was like just NonStop
chaos because on the second day of filming, I was
arrested for the blingering. So it was like I signed
a show up for a show with E that was

(23:37):
supposed to be about something totally different. Then on the
second day of filming, literally we were out all night
partying with Mickey Avalon getting super loaded having the best
time ever on the top of the world, and then
the next morning at about six am, door knocks and
it's like a swat team like there to arrest me.

(23:59):
So I my case as a I think at that time,
I was eighteen and eighteen year old heroin Addict on
national television for nine months, and it was brutal. You're
starting to make me feel less stressed. You're fine, really,
You're fine. No, no, no no, that's not to say everybody

(24:21):
has their struggles. For me, it was like a life
of chaos. I grew up in a family that was
really dysfunctional. There was incests that was going on. I
was being raped when I was like five years old.
My um parents divorced when I was three. My dad
was in the entertainment industry and then lost it all

(24:42):
and became homeless by the time I was like eleven
um and I was raped again at sixteen, I was
abused by babysitters, by my dad's girlfriends. I mean, it
was like just NonStop chaos. And then I graduated high school.
I got my g e d at sixteen, and I
left the house and I was like, I'm just gonna

(25:04):
become like a um music video girl. That was my goal.
I was like, I'm just going to become like music
video girl right like this, this is going to be
like my new thing. And then before you know it, Um,
I had my own reality TV show, which is really
crazy to me, and it documented all of that. It

(25:27):
documented Yeah, well it didn't show like any of my
previous trauma because I wasn't ready to dive into that yet. Um.
I was still very much so in like the survival mode,
coping and using mode, so I didn't have any like perspective.
And because you have suffered from drug addiction, would you

(25:51):
say that social media can be that same type of
addiction or oh yeah, um, I think that people all
often don't realize that. Um, any time that we're checking
out and trying to distract ourselves rather than checking in

(26:13):
being present. Um wow, we just really went through that fast.
I did that just kind of all caught up with
me and I was like, okay, wow, like here we are. Yeah. Absolutely,
So I think that any time that I'm using anything
um as a crutch or a distraction, it's like I'm

(26:34):
trying to not be present in my body like where
I'm at, you know. And so I say something that
on my podcast a lot that I think is pretty controversial,
but it shouldn't be. Like, in a weird way, we're
all addicted to something these days, and it's because we're
so disconnected from each other and we idolize and place

(26:55):
the individual as being more important as the collective and
so as a species, like, we were never able to
survive like that, and so we always had to operate
in tribes and so now we're operating as individuals, right,
and we're placing so much focus on the individual, and
so we're seeing depression rates skyrocketing, um abuse rates skyrocketing,

(27:19):
drug addictions skyrocketing. And you can be addicted to your phone,
to sex, to working out, to working to drugs, to alcohol,
to relationships, to people, to whatever it might be. It's
really easy to want to check out and that same token,

(27:39):
I mean, I saw your post from today where you're
able to kind of share your history but also help others,
and that do you find that though, as a positive
to the social media, that you're able to help change
people's lives by just a post. Yeah, I think it's
um As I was walking in here, I'm sorry in
my head and my phone somebody, it's somebody DM me

(28:00):
and goes I heard your interview on Juicy Scoop and
I decided to quit smoking OxyS every day and I've
completely got off pain pills because of that interview. And
I get these messages literally all day long, and people
ask me often like do you regret your past? Do
you if you could take it all back and just

(28:23):
have a fresh start with you. My answers always and
will always be no, because despite the fact that it's
been really painful for me and other people that I've harmed,
obviously I'm now able to help the masses in a
weird way. And that's not to like toot my own
horn or to sound like not humble. I'm just saying

(28:47):
that social media for me and and my podcast and
going on podcasts like this and having this platform allows
me to have dialogue with people where it's like, if
you've been raped as a child, you can survive it.
If you've been raped as a team, you can survive it.
If you've dealt with divorce, you can survive it. If
you've dealt with addiction, you can survive it. If I

(29:08):
could survive it on national television in front of millions
of people every single week. You can too. But not
only that, you're also able to be open and vulnerable
and talk and feeling. That came with a lot of
time when I so what I ended up having. I
took a plea deal because I was like, I can't
fight a trial on while I'm shooting a para one

(29:31):
every day, Like it's just not doable. So I took
a plea deal and I went to jail for a summer.
And when I um got out of jail, I could
clearly see that, like my relationship with drugs was really unhealthy. However,
I didn't have any tools to deal with all of

(29:55):
the trauma that I had been through, So I went
back to drinking and smoking pot, and I was like,
this is fine, Like I can handle this. I have
always been able to just have a glass of wine
with dinner or one drink with dinner, It'll be okay. Well,
within two weeks I was back to shooting at Prouin
and I was arrested again December one, two thousand tents.

(30:18):
So we're coming up nine years, which is crazy. Yeah,
I was arrested again, and by the grace of God,
I was facing six years in prison because I violated
my probation and the judge gave me a second chance
at life and he sent me to treatment. And so

(30:40):
I totally got lost off track what your question was.
I'm so sorry, but but it's very interesting. I mean,
but I I we were just talking about addiction, and
know what I mean, It is what it is. But
I think it's so interesting that social media can be
such a positive in so many ways but also can
be such a negative. Oh, that's where I was going.

(31:01):
So I made a conscious choice when I went to
rehab that I was not going to do anymore. I
was going to stay out of entertainment because I had
seen so many people before me do that and suck
up not I shouldn't say up relapse, and for me,
I knew I was going to die like that was it,
Like I've overdosed, I'm shooting up heroin. At this point, um,

(31:24):
I am abusing myself, my body and others Like I
knew that this was game over for me, and so
I made a conscious decision that staying away from UM
this arena was important for me. So I did that,
and then in the last kind of couple of years,
I felt this calling to return, but in my own way,

(31:48):
and I could not stand by and watch the statistics
keep going up and up and up. We're now at
over eighty thou people a year dying of drugs and
I'll call dragon alcohol related deaths and um mental illness
and is on the rise to and just sit by
and like, you know, continue to be a housewife, which

(32:10):
was great, right, like because another big mission of mine,
among the millions of others, is to break the generational
trauma curse that's been happening my family for generations. And
I'm a mother to two daughters and so that's been
my main priority. So speaking on that, how do you
feel about either having your kids on your social media
or letting them have their own? Yeah? So, um, I

(32:33):
have my kids on my social media, but not very often. Um,
And I think my intention right now is that I
will have I will get my kids phones at an
appropriate age. But they're going to get like slip phones.
Oh doctor culture, They're not getting smartphones. They're not. But

(32:55):
I think they can get in trouble no matter what.
But we talked about social media, isn't really your ideal
age would be sixteen and over? But what about just
phones in general. Yeah, I'm with you on the flip phone.
I mean in terms of being able to contact your
kid and locate where they are and let them know
if you're running later that your dad's picking them up
or whatever. That's great, and a flip phone can accomplish that.

(33:17):
I mean, I think a kid having a smartphone with
a lot of apps blocked and just uh you know,
certain um access to more benign things might be finded around.
I have friends that they now what's so great about
the eye cloud thing is that as a family, you
can see everybody's stuff, right, So she can read her

(33:41):
son's text messages, she can see what apps are on
the phone, she can see what, you know, even what
he's looking at on the internet. And I think that's
really great. I think it's a responsibility thing. And um,
I talk a lot about the brain because it's something
that I kind of geek out on. And children develop

(34:02):
their prefrontal cortex around ten. Their prefrontal cortex is what's
kind of like your decision maker, like that thing that
allows you to pause before you do something, correct me
if I'm wrong. But it starts really to develop around ten,
doesn't stop until you're in your mid to late twenties,
So to give a child a phone at ten when

(34:24):
they literally are just developing that ability to pause. And
you know, I live out near Malibu and I've heard
stories of second graders sending pictures in their underwear to
other people on their phones, and I'm like, it's not
the child's fault, it's the parents fault. And just so,

(34:45):
it is illegal. Just so you parents out there, it
is illegal, So tell your kids that because if that
were to get out there and somebody were to see it,
they could be arrested. And I don't think a lot
of kids know that, and I don't think a lot
of parents know that well. And you can tell you're
ten year old that all day long. But again, until
that prefrontal cortex is functioning at a level where they

(35:06):
can think through before they take action, it's like, that's
why we have to tell you have six seven, right,
how old are your kids? They're even so exactly so
it's like how many times do you have to say
pick up your room? Clean up? This is why we
don't do this. You have to repeat yourself all day long.
You're like a broken record. And it's literally because their

(35:27):
brains can only retain so much. And if you're given
the option to play right or to have some sort
of reward over doing something that they have to do,
They're always going to choose the reward. No. And I've
noticed if so I let my kids have like a
tablet in the car if we're going on long drive,
just for my own sanity. But then we get out

(35:49):
of the car and there's zombies. They act like different
human beings are acting like brads nenative and I'm like,
oh my gosh, this is from roadblocks or whatever it
is they or weird YouTube videos of a's playing with toys,
and I'm like, what is happening? You know? And so
I learned like that is really the only time we
do it. I used to be a little bit more
lax in the house. Okay, we'll do one hour day

(36:10):
on the weekends. Now I'm like, no, if we're in
the car for more than an hour, you can have it.
That's it. But I mean it's crazy. And also do
you get mom shamed at all on Instagram? And what
I think that is? And also dr culture feel free
to weigh in what do you think it is as
moms or even for somebody that's not a mom. I

(36:30):
mean even Jamie who was on with me earlier, she
gets shamed for her cat because her cats a little hat.
I think that I think we live in a society
now where people just like to have people really like
to be offended, and they really like to share their
opinion because they don't feel validated in their own lives,
and so social media is kind of like a perfect

(36:52):
storm to be able to do that. So my three
year old, for instance, has she we had a very
challenging pregnancy. She wasn't supposed to make it. She had
up until twenty weeks with her, they thought she had
tries to meet thirteen, which meant that she literally would
die at birth. And she had all of these different

(37:14):
issues and we're not talking tries with down SYDMA trying
to try they have cyclops eyes and their organs are all. Yeah,
it was horrible, but I can. I decided that I
was going to continue with the pregnancy, and by a miracle,
she had this very rare situation where her placenta had
different DNA than she did. So they kept testing the
placenta with CVS tests and all the stuff, and it

(37:34):
turned out she was totally fine. Now she has gross
motor delay issues. She has a full, incomplete underbyte where
she can't talk, she has eating issues. And I can't
tell you how much that I get the fact that
she's three and still on a bottle. I'm like, but
she can't drink from a cup, and you guys don't
know her situation. She has a full headgear now and

(37:55):
like all of us, yeah, so everybody just wants to
have there and immediately right when you told me that story,
you you've been trained where you almost have to justify it,
where there isn't a need to justify. I mean, the
same thing happens. My son has just a list and
people are like, you need to get that checked and
you need to figure that out, and what's wrong with you?
And I'm like, you don't think I've talked to his

(38:17):
doctor about this. You don't think that he's not my
primary concern, like like honestly, or even people get upset
over something as silly as like a haircut. What's wrong
with you? Your son's hairs in his eyes, he doesn't
want a haircut right now. And you know what, I
I think I'm in my so my youngest daughter does
identify as her the opposite sex that she was assigned

(38:39):
at birth. Because she's three and a half and she
identifies as a boy. She wants to be Batman. Her
boy bed is a big boy bed. Like I have
a feeling that I'm in for it with her, and
I'm here for it because at the end of the day,
we're making we're our children's parents, and we're going to

(39:00):
do everything that we think is necessary to support them.
And I honestly don't give a damn if Susie and
you know, Wisconsin has an issue has an issue with it.
I mean, the important part is that we are you know,
your kids trust that they can come to their parents
and talk to them. I think so absolutely. And you know,

(39:21):
I think time is changing, and I think that people
are changing, and the more that we can support our
kids and show them love, that's really what matters. And
unfortunately we have to take a little break um before
we bring in rich. But thank you so much Alexis
for sharing your story. I wish we like I want
to bring now. We have so many other topics that
we need to bring you in. Amazing, amazing, and you

(39:43):
can come on my podcast. Dude, I'd love that, love it. Okay,
So now it's time to drill our technology genius, Rich DeMuro.

(40:06):
He is rich on tech and we've got questions. Can
we get them on the line. I'm here, Thanks for
having me on. Oh wow, how do you like my intro?
I'm slightly awkward when I do them, but I try
my best. It was just perfectly awkward. That's me. So
you're an expert on anything tech related. What are the

(40:27):
rising trends right now on social media apps? Well, I
mean when it comes to social media, you know, as
well as everyone, Instagram is where it's at for just
about everything. I mean, the world revolves around Instagram these days. Right,
it used to be Facebook. You know, we've seen other
things come along, like you know, what's that other one
Snapchat people have heard of, right, But nowadays it's all

(40:50):
about Instagram and Instagram Stories and they've really just taken over.
Um And I think that that's where we're seeing the
shift of the world when it comes to media, when
it comes to influencers, when it comes to pretty much
anything related to social media, that's where it's at. And
it's interesting because Instagram is not necessarily built as a
platform for what it's being used as and you know

(41:12):
they're trying to change things on us with no likes.
But the reality is that is where you need to be,
and that's where people are accumulating the most followers when
it comes to making a living and also being an influencer.
So I heard, and I don't know if this is
just a rumor, but if you are posting an AD
and you're not clear and you don't use like the

(41:32):
paid tool or whatever it is and do hashtag ad,
than Instagram is going to punish you and like hide
your photos. Is this true or is this like one
of those myths? Well, no, I mean you could. Yeah,
you're talking about when it comes to paid placements on Instagram.
Like let's say a company pays you to do, you know,

(41:54):
some sort of ad where you're saying, hey, I'm getting
paid to you know, promote this product, right, and if
you don't say that, Instagram wants it's in their best
interest to crack down on you because there are federal
rules that deal with this stuff. So um, when it
comes to the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, they have
specific rules on what you can do, what you can't do.

(42:15):
And the reality is is anyone cracking down in those rules.
Probably not. We've seen several cases where you know, people
have been a slap on the risk kind of thing.
But Instagram doesn't want to be put in a place
where they're gonna see federal regulations involving this stuff with them.
And that's why I think they're being uh, you know,
they want to make sure that people are on the

(42:35):
up and up, which I think they've They've done a
good job of giving people good tools for that. You know,
you can tag a post as promoted, you can tag
as sponsored, you know, hashtag at Obviously people use um.
Does their algorithm demote posts if they are paid or
you know, if they seem paid and they're not disclosing that.
Probably actually. And on that note, do you see that

(42:58):
these photo altering apps that people are using to add
to their Instagram photos or whatever it is losing their applog?
Do you think they're going to keep growing? I think
the world of social media is more about people wanting
a dose of reality. But at the same time, like
any media, you always want a little bit of non
reality because you live in like a little bit of

(43:19):
a fantasy world of here's where these people are traveling
and they look beautiful and here's what they're doing, and
they have the best life. And I'm sitting here at
my nine to five job surfing Instagram and looking at
Instagram stories. So I think that's always going to be
a part of it, that fantasy world. While people are
hate liking, yeah, exactly, hate liking. I like that term.

(43:40):
But you know, I think that people like real And
if you look at some of the most popular posts,
if you go through someone's you know, feed, and you
kind of see, like how many likes people are getting
on things. Sure, the beautiful pictures in Greece are getting
a lot of pictures, a lot of likes, but sometimes
it's that picture when they just woke up or they
share a really um, you know, real moment from their

(44:00):
life with their kids or their spouse that gets the
most likes. And so that tells you something. People love
the fantasy, but they also like the reality as well
because it connects with them in a way of Okay,
I got the same things happening in my life. I
gotta pick up my kids from school, I gotta do this,
and these people do that too. We like to see that.
But these apps, I think for when it comes to

(44:21):
like the younger generation, I think is kind of crazy
because it's a it's an unhealthy um distortion field. It's
so stuff that doesn't really exist. People in your face
creating bodies that don't even exist. They're making curves, they're
changing that, they're pretending they've never had a blemish. Of
these apps, what is the most popular right now? Like,

(44:41):
what's the most used one? I mean, I think I
think when it comes to kind of the affecting your face,
face tune has always been popular, that's been around forever.
I think when you see a picture that has been
face tuned, people just say, oh, that's face tunes. When
I see teeth that are super white or some of
that seems like, you know, it's an unrealistic body or
I'm just like that, how is that even possible? Um?

(45:04):
I think that that's a dead giveaway. But it's at
the same time, it's you know, magazines have always been
doing this, TV has been doing this, Hollywood. You know,
people have a team of people that help them look
their best, and so I feel like the average person
that's posting to Instagram feels the same way. They say, well,
why can't I look my best I'm just doing the
same exact thing that Hollywood has been doing for so

(45:24):
many years. That's such a good point. You always see
in the news or whatever in the media when you
find out that such and such celeb has asked to
do a cover shoot without photo touching or whatever, and
people are like, wow, they get all this applause, But
they have been doing that for years. So I mean,
Instagram is just a way for everybody to be getting

(45:45):
that celebrity treatment. I guess. I think the difference here
is that if you're a fifteen year old girl and
you're looking through Instagram and you see the model in
the Caribbean, you understand that they had a team of
makeup artists, and you understand that they had a million
um you know what do they call those lights? Those
reflector lights that look gold and really nice on you,
and they know that you took a thousand pictures to

(46:07):
get that perfect shot. But when it comes to the
average person that tries to do that same exact thing,
especially if you're a teenager, you see that other person
in your class and you see an unrealistic view of
them because they've retouched everything, and you say, oh, they're
so perfect, but the reality is they're not, and no
one is. And I think that that's the danger, is
that there used to be a divide of that's Hollywood,

(46:29):
this is real America. But nowadays, with these tools in
anyone's pocket, anyone can look however they want. And I
think that's kind of the scary, weird part we're looking
at here. And and your opinion, does social media affect employment?
Like I know so many younger you know, younger generations
who are posting pictures of drinking or partying or in

(46:50):
bathing suits or whatever, and they're not realizing the repercussions
of their future employers being able to see anything on
the Internet. Okay, well here's what's crazy about this. I
did a story with a company that kind of goes
through and when you have employees hiring, they do like
a risk assessment of those employees, so they kind of
figure out, like is this person going to be a

(47:10):
problem before they become a problem. And I asked them
point blank, I said, what are companies looking for? Like,
you know, you always hear like if you have a
red solo cup in your in all your Instagram shots,
like is that it? When you never work again, and
he told me that they actually companies don't even care
about drinking. Now, I'm not saying people, if you're under
twenty one to sit there and you know, be crazy,

(47:32):
But the reality is everyone understands that we're human and
people party. I mean, I don't know, you know, college
is you know, people have a good time in college,
and I think that everyone that ever works at a
company knows that. And it's not unheard of to see
someone now back in the day, do we all have,
you know, cameras cataloging every second of our lives. No,

(47:53):
So I think that part is a little bit different.
But the reality is, I think companies are looking for
more risks than just someone that's you know, may be
drinking or someone in a bathing suit. Um, even drugs.
I mean they were saying that even marijuana, if that
was in pictures, it wasn't that big of a deal
with the companies, which I can't believe I'm saying this,
but that is so frightening to me. I mean, I

(48:13):
have like two polaroids of me, like with Boone's Farm
from when I was younger, and I am so glad
they're polaroids and can't be fined I can't be found
on the internet. But oh my gosh, my life didn't
even start until you know, the late two thousands when
digital cameras came out, and I'm like, thank god, I
had all my craziness before that happened. The embarrassing haircuts.

(48:33):
I can't. Um. So, you know, in closing, what's next
for social media? Like, what's the next Instagram? Oh, what's
the next Instagram? I think, I mean, obviously TikTok we're
seeing a lot of billion I cannot. Well, it's so
weird too, because it's it's just it's one of these
things that like, it's not everyone even is aware of it.

(48:57):
Just yeah, I mean people have heard of it, but
are a lot of people that aren't on it yet,
which I think that's big. But at the same time,
I think at this point it appeals to the younger demographic,
which you know, limits its appeal for now because people
see this like the young kids thing to do, right,
So the adults aren't really on it. But if you remember,
that's the way Facebook was back in the day. So um,

(49:18):
I think the problem for all these platforms is that
nobody can build something that is that is what people
want because if you look at any of the platforms
for over the years, like Facebook and we have Twitter,
and we have Instagram, and we have all these things
that have come and gone, none of them were sort
of imagined to be used to the way they are.
So like everyone thought Facebook was the best, Everyone used it,

(49:40):
they used the heck out of it, and all of
a sudden, now it's like you just drop it and
it's like on the side of the road. So will
Instagram become that? I don't know, but I think Instagram
from what I've seen, has made some pretty smart moves
to keep it kind of like the hottest, coolest thing going.
And they stole stories right away from Snapchat, which you
really help them because everyone switched like pretty much overnight

(50:04):
two Instagram stories over Stepchat. So will there be something
that comes along the way. I don't know. It's tough
to tell. I'm I'm not sure TikTok is that platform,
But could there be something invented perhaps? Thank you so
much Rich for coming on you guys. You have to
read his book. It's called one oh one iPhone Tips
and Tricks. It's going to be good, all right. So

(50:33):
now we're going to get into some rapid fire questions
with Jamie and Dr gold Schert. Whoever thinks they have
the better I'm doing it in quotes answer should ring in.
And the first question is if you are somebody starting
out you want to become an influencer and you don't

(50:53):
know how, what are some quick tips? Uh, I would
say probably learn how to our to get a good
camera or a good iPhone I guess these days, and
to get an editing editing software, to like have good
photos because people want to follow you for good photos.
It's kind of and how often do they need to
be posting content? Oh? Regularly every day? That's my that's

(51:14):
my always been every single day I have posted a
photo unless I want to fight. Okay, do you guys
think social media is our friend of me? Definitely right?
I mean this whole podcast has kind of been encapsulating
this complicated relationship. We have a social media It's like
the best and the worst boyfriend ever, you know, like

(51:35):
it's the best time ever. It's so seductive and so
addictive in a lot of ways, and so much fun
and compelling, and you can learn a lot and then
on the other hand, like it can hurt you and
confuse you and you know, make you feel um, not
so great in your own skin at times. So I
think actually a friend of me is like it's like
the perfect word forward speaking of seduction cat fishing? Can

(51:57):
you actually trust people? You were talking too through d
M s m hm, I get. I mean, I don't
even know how to answer that, to be honest, that's
the point of the check mark, is to make it
the real person or not right. But not everybody has
a check mark. I mean a lot of people don't
have check marks. So I guess to do that at
your own risk. Um, should we be face tuning, wiscoing,

(52:22):
photoshopping and filtering? Are we altering reality too much? You know?
I mean I'm of two minds of this. I think
in part, as you were talking about, Jamie, that there's
an art to it, in a creativity and a fun
that I think people are drawn to, and I don't
think that should be totally impeded. But I think it's
so important for there to be so many more opportunities

(52:45):
for people to relate to people in their natural habitat,
whether we're talking environmental, like physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. There
there's just such a lack of that right now. And
we've been talking a lot during this podcast how when
it pops up on social media, even in your Instagram,
to that people are really drawn to it, really drawn
to it. Well, you know what I just learned from
one of our producers. We booked you, Jamie through d

(53:07):
M s because you did. You slid right into that
d M and I was like, yes, and we didn't
catfish you. I thought it was for a minute and
I was like, can I have Can you send me
an email with details? And it was like yeah, And
then the email didn't come for a few days and
I was like, oh, it's totally not real, like someone
was praying on my emotions that I wanted to do
this so but it was real. That is so funny.

(53:30):
I told you I read all those d M Yeah,
she's not mess around. She is. You know what I
don't If you need to talk to me right something
in my comments or message me, I guess and our
message Jamie and should reach out to me? Um, okay?
How authentic are our lives via social media? I can
answer for me and then maybe Jamie you answer as well.

(53:51):
I think that I try to show as much as
I possibly can. So I live a pretty authentic life
when you're when you're seeing my kids, my life, if
the chaos working out my clients, that's all that being said,
my indst to stories. If my skin is looking super
clear one day, it is the subtle filter, guys. It's
the one that's purple and it has little dogs around

(54:14):
like it's little sparkles. That is the filter I have,
Like Rosa sha, my skin is red as these ladies,
they can see it right now. Not even what about you, guys? Um.
I mean, I feel like I'm pretty authentic these days.
I used to be really against like showing all the
you know, bad days and stuff like that, and I
feel like now that I have been showing it more,
I've actually gotten more support from people because they just

(54:35):
see that you're a normal person dealing with normal things
that happen in life. And you know, I get depressed
some days, I get I have really great days. So
I feel like followers are resonating more with you being
more authentic and stuff like, which leads me I need
to ask you this now. Do you think that because
you spend so much time on social media, you're talking
to friends like real life friends and some of my

(54:56):
best friends now are people that I met through Instagram
just from Hey, what's up? Hey, Like, I'm even meeting
up with the follower tomorrow to just hang out because
we both love Star Wars, so we're gonna watch Star Wars.
Like but don't you ever get sketched out by that
a little bit? But I feel like I've talked to
them for years now and it's like not weird. So
if you guys, haven't you need to watch the movie
The American Meme. Have you all watched that? Oh? It

(55:18):
is so good. It's about the life of an influencer.
So make sure you guys tune into that watching that today. Um,
what is something you've done slash experienced in the past
that you're thankful social media wasn't a thing for growing up?
Probably my partying days. I'm really glad that, like Instagram
wasn't a thing when I was like in college and

(55:40):
you know, drinking and doing what college people do. I'm
really glad the Instagram kind of came out right when
I was like starting in the workforce and really getting
into like fashion and blogging, and I'm glad it kind
of That's how I feel too, I mean, I wouldn't
want my youth out there. And since I had a
lot of bad self tanner moments at hair, eyebrows, my

(56:01):
eyebrows so thin, there's not a lot of photos of that. Okay.
I think about my young self, like thirteen fourteen, trying
to navigate the world of social media, if you're allowed
to to be on that landscape that young, and how
difficult that would I could barely navigate my aid plant pager,
you know, navigating the poll of of putting yourself out there,

(56:24):
the insecurity, the desire to be popular, they need to
be liked, like all of that. It was hard enough
in high school without Instagram to like judge you when
you get home, like everyone's judging you, like all night
and probably not liking your photos, and then it'll stress
you out the next day, like, oh, so was I
didn't like my photo? Now at school it's like weird
and sokward, Like I can't even imagine all that was
hard enough without all of it. And what are your

(56:46):
true thoughts on people who choose to not have any
social media? What are you hiding? That's actually we had
a Cheater podcast and um they said something about like
people that have no social media whatever. I'll say this.
I dated someone in college and he had no Facebook,
no Instagram, none of that, and he was cheating on me.

(57:08):
So I don't I don't trust anyone these days if
you're not interested in what's going on in the world
with Instagram, because you can follow whatever you want really
to like see to gear what you see. So something
something's weird and speaking of your cheating X, should we
unfollow our ex? Yes, I think I'm not interested. I
don't want to see it. I don't think it's helpful.

(57:29):
But then people, you know, what, what is our need
to fill sometimes to go look? I mean, I think
it's quite human for people. It's like that that pain
pleasure thing of like wanting to kind of release the
tension by knowing it also kind of helps you move on.
I guess if you see that maybe they're dating something,
they're living their best life of that. But then you

(57:49):
know that you're living your best life on there too,
so maybe it they see. I don't know. Um, Okay,
do you guys think that sending threats on social media
should be a felony? I guess there's like a gray
area of what's like what would be what's a threat?
How bad a threat? Has someone threatening my cats saying
that they're fat? You's threat of physical violence? It has

(58:11):
to be taken. Yeah, I mean, at least now I've
I've learned that you can uh block certain words which
I didn't know, so that's something can restrict people now.
And you can restrict people. So if you're trying to,
you know, help your kids, you can restrict certain words
if they're being bullied, so you can protect them that way,

(58:31):
but also be stalking their Instagram accounts. Don't just let
them do it on their own. If they only want Instagram,
if they're the only ones on it, don't let them
have it. Um and question, because you said your husband
is now an influencer as well, do you think social
media causes more stress that slash jealousy and relationships? I mean,

(58:52):
to be completely honest, Like we have each other's passwords,
were logged in on both each other's phones because he
like manages me, so he needs to be on my
profile a lot to do stuff. So like it actually
makes it easier because like we don't like we don't
hide anything, Like we're very open about like everything. So
it used to be a stressful thing until he really
got into the world, and then now he understands and

(59:13):
it's like less of a stress now instead of having
to explain things going on with Instagram or like brands
or whatever, he like gets it now. So it goes
back to my original thing, which because I have this
app called like three sixty app, which tells like everything
about like how fast somebody's driving, if they're texting and driving,
blah blah blah. And somebody was like, I can't believe

(59:34):
you you have that on your phone. I'm like, of
course I have that on my phone. Like so it's
kind of if you're okay being an open book, there's
less reason for stress and jealousy and anxiety because then
you have less to worry about it. But if you
have somebody who's covering their hand over their Instagram or
d m NG or whatever it is, or they all

(59:55):
of a sudden have a Snapchat, but you're not their
snapchat friend, we don't even have Snapchat in our relationship
because it was like at the very beginning, it was like,
what who are you sending? And I was like, I'm
deleting it. I don't even want all this drama like
I don't have time for it, while you guys today
was so much fun. I love learning the ins and out,
ins and out of the Graham. And thank you guys

(01:00:17):
so much for joining me. Thanks thanks joining us, Thanks
for listening. Subscribe to cd T POT on her radio
or wherever you listen to podcasts.