November 21, 2024 • 55 mins
Columnist and sexual-health-advocate Zachary Zane joins Brandon to share some hilarious messy stories that raise a few really interesting questions about sexual freedom. Then, a question from the community sparks a full discussion on sex party etiquette.
https://www.zacharyzane.com/articles
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GRQKOF2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Find Zach on IG @ZacharyZane_
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So I whip out my deck and of course I
now have like four beautiful women staring at it. I
get pa shy. I can't fucking pee for the life
of me, and you can tell. And one of them
just like essentially starts damming me to pee, and I'm
so fucking nervous.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And I'm like trying to look like because I'm also
so what is it done?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Just feel like, Zach, you have to fucking pee. If not,
you're not a real man like emasculating man.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Oh you know what we do here, destroy shame around
sex by talking about sex.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Now, let me tell you something messy. So I have
received messages from y'all about loads and uh, somebody sent
me a message saying, my pussy is so filled up
with come, I don't know what to do, uh, which
you know I love that y'all come to messy Mo
(00:55):
for advice. My advice was to simply push it out
when somebody said they're just bragging, which you know I
love when y'all brag about your filled up kittie. But
somebody else said, the most effective method I've found is
more of a scoop with your finger technique. Pushing doesn't
get the whole load, and then you're all drippy. Obviously
(01:17):
the more you ho somebody else offered, I hear the
best method is to gag on something while you push.
If y'all understand, if you know, you know um, And
somebody else says, agreed that that is true. A gag
or a cough pushes it right out, and then somebody else, Hello,
(01:39):
my messy patron, said a partner, sucking it out. Look
at all these we are a community here, and we
are going to teach you how to push that load out.
And I will say I do think pushing the load
out is important. I learned this because my boyfriend and
I when we first got together, we were going to
a party, but we decided to obviously meet up before,
(01:59):
and we fucked before, flipped all the things, and then
you know, we gave each other our baby juice. And
like I thought it was hot to keep the baby
juice in. I gotta find a new work. I thought
it was hot to keep the cream filling in. Like
I'm a twinkie. I wanted to be a twinkie that night.
(02:22):
So we were like, let's keep it in and go
to this party and then maybe like two hours into
the party, both of our stomachs were wreck gurgling nothing no,
but like not not in the number two sets because
we were douche so it wasn't nothing coming out, but
just like that come in the guts with the enzymes.
I'm not a scientist, and with the bacteria and with
(02:44):
the lining of the colon, I'm not a scientist. I
think started to do something. We were like, oh, we
have to leave, and so we left, went home and
we ordered I think Jack in the Box, which is
my first time having Jack in the Box. All this
to say it is important to push out your low
and find the way to push it out. The way
I like to push it out now is because I
(03:05):
feel like I can keep it in for like an
hour or so, but then I really do want to
get it out if I can get out immediately, especially
if I fuck before I go out, and then I'm
gonna fox some more. Just go to the bathroom, sit
down and push. Same way I got that butt plug out,
which I don't know if I've told you that story
but not today, but you know, when the butt plug
got lost inside me, I had to sit on the
toilet and push. Okay, so sit on the toilet push
(03:28):
or use the finger technique or have a partner suck out.
Either way works. By the way, Welcome to the show.
This is tell me something messy. I'm your host, Brandon
Kyle Goodman. Some people call me messy mom, but you
can call me the pussy plumber. Okay, boom march done. Okay,
let's get the show started.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Baby.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
You know what that means. It's time for I guess Now,
while they get situated, we'll get our messy key key
started with a hoe manifest stove repeat after me aloud
or in your head. Grant me the serenity to unpact
my shame, the courage to heal, the wisdom to know
that sex is not just about penetration, the audacity to
(04:09):
advocate for my pleasure and boundaries. The strength to not
call my ex that fuck boyfuck girl, or fuck lay,
for it is better to masturbate by myself in peace
than to let someone play in my motherfucking face. Let
the community say oh lelujah. Now, before I introduce our guests,
I just want to give you a heads up. There's
(04:30):
a little bit of some audio glitchy things, but the
conversation is so incredible. It is worth it to navigate
some of the glitchings. Honey, we're messy. We're messy here, Okay. Now,
I am so excited to have Zachary Zaane on the show. Now,
let me give you a little bio. We like to
we like to let the people know who is here. So.
(04:50):
Zachary Zane is a columnist and author whose work focuses
on sexuality, culture, and the LGBTQ community. He is the
author of boy Slut, a memoir and manifesto which I
highly recommend, and co author of Men's Health Best Sex Ever.
He writes sexplain It, the sex and relationship advice column
(05:12):
at Men's Health, and Navigating non Monogamy, the polyamorous relationship
column at Cosmopolitan. Bitch you are writing Okay. He is
editor in chief at The Boycelet Zine, which publishes non
fiction erotica from Kinkster's across the globe. His work has
been featured in New York Times, Rolling Stone, Washington Post,
(05:33):
play Boy, and more. Y'all please tell me welcome, Zachary.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Say hi, nach I'm so excited to be here. I'm
so excited to talk to you. I think it's gonna
be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
This is gonna be so much fun. We're gonna do
a lou breaker, but then I'll gush around you more.
But you know, Baker, you know what I'm saying. Okay,
So the game is, would you or rather? Are you
down to play? Of course? Love it? What if you
were like, no bench, no thank you, I'm gonna pass.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Okay? Uh, well everyone knows, how would you rather go?
I'm gonna give you two options, and you're gonna tell
me which you would rather. So here we go. Would
you rather? These are actually from messy patrons and I'm obsessed. Okay,
So would you rather make out with someone who has
bad breath? Or get your hole eaten by someone who's
a little teethy?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
The bad breath is like I really dislike that, you know,
and and I feel bad and like I my breath
in the morning.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
My partner describes it as a seagull shitting in my
mouth because literally literally the meds that I'm on, my
sleeping meds and anxiety meds, they dry out your mouth.
So in the morning it is like I like, I
go to give them a kiss, and lately they're just
like they're like I love your stick. I'm like it's
so bad, so I feel bad for them. I feel
bad for me again, How did that come up?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
How did your partner what? Like what was the context?
Were you like, let me kiss you early? More like
your your bread smells like a seagull shitting.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I mean I I can taste it. It's that bad.
So I knew this, so it wasn't like, oh, this
is news to me.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Well, everyone has morning bread like.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Like disgusting, like like really disgusting, and I'm like, I'll
go brush my teeth and they're like, no, it's fine,
it's fine, honey. I love you. I'm like, that's really sweet.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
But again, I'm trying to think, how do you even
get teeth into a butthole?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Like like that would be feel like it's like your
your your I on the whole in your you're like
as you're eating it, you're also like dragging your teeth
on it, or you're biting the hole a little bit,
a little bit teethy. It's not full teeth.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I would say teeth y because I'd feel more comfortable
telling someone like, hey, watch the teeth, as opposed to
being like, oh, your breath is bad, which is I
feel like a more personal attack, so like like your
brother's bad, like no, gross, don't kiss me, as opposed
to like I've gotten head. That's a little bit teeth.
I'm like, hey, careful of the teeth. And you say that,
(08:07):
and that's not something that's like insulting the same way
and that like breath is insulting. So I'd go with
Who knows, I might like a little teeth on the
booty hole.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I might actually enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I don't know, but yeah, I'd go with that one
just because I'd feel more comfortable saying something.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I'm also making out is like my is my biggest
turn on or one of my biggest turn ons, So
I too would choose the teeth because you're right, maybe
I would, Like I did just learn from somebody I
was hanging out with a little while ago, and they
love and they didn't say teeth on the whole, but
they love like biting, like they have a biting k kink,
(08:43):
and so.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
So many people knew.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, they taught me. I didn't know how to do
that properly, so they taught me how to to bite
them and like how to graize their arm with my
teeth and it was very they were enjoying it. It
was hot to me. I don't. I haven't had it
done to me, so I don't. I can't. Jury's out,
but my partner.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Is very bity. Just for if that's the word. I
feel like you can see I got like hickey's still
on me, and I kind of love getting hickeys. I
feel like I haven't had one since I was like seventeen,
and then to like get it again, I'm like, this
is cute and it's got a little reminder that they're there.
I obviously work in a profession where like, if I
come in with a hickey, it's exploded of me. No
(09:25):
one cares, so, like I don't have to worry about that.
But it's something that I've kind of been cute. See.
It makes me feel young in a fun way. Yeah,
you love that.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Okay. This one is would you rather get fingered by
someone who has long nails or have intercourse with someone
who sweats like they're in the steam room?
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Oh definitely the sweat. No, the long nail. That fucking hurts.
That that is like, that is a painful thing. You
scratched the inside of your ass, like you're gonna get
a fisher, like you can bleed that shit is I've
had that happen. That is not fun. Sweat is hot,
like sweat like like sweat, I mean literally, but like
that's if you're into it and you're both sweating and
like that can be like a really sensual thing. I
(10:06):
have some partners or people I know who are just like, hey,
I sweat profusely during sex. I have like a I
have like a squirt sheet, like a like a what
do you mean a sports sheet? So like it's like
this latex sheet like a fitted bed sheet that I
put on and it's for like messy play, messy play
for you got to sponsor them. You gotta start to
(10:27):
them immediately. Partnership needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
It's smirch sportsheets. Messheets. Okay, so it's four, but like
is it clean up easy?
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Like what what do you exactly? You know? So it
cleans up super easy. You just have to wipe it
down with like a washcloth. But like for people who
are doing like fisting with a ton of like j
loop that viscous thing loob. For people who do piss play,
vomit play or just score a ship ton. That's what
this is for.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
From you, from you have to talk about this, but continue.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
It's and it's so easy just put I put it
like literally on top of my regular sheet, so I
can just take that off afterwards, wipe it down, be
good to go. And I have people who just swept profusely.
It's like I don't want to do my sheets after
like every time.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Like and even if you're just.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Having anal sex and you just use a shit ton
of lube, you don't want to fucking wipe it on
your pillow sheets. Or I've had literally top just wipe
the lube on my ass and I'm like, okay, come on, guys,
like I like, wipe it on my thigh. I'm like,
fuck you, dude, like you like you fucking serious right now.
Like but just like even when you're using a shit
ton of lube, a silicon lube in particular, fucking fox
with the sheets and say it like, it's it's a
(11:34):
lot easier.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Zach I had this. I bought this, uh do they
cover from uh A one of these fancy Yeah we're
talking about Dovey cover. So it was fancy and uh
I ruined it with loop yeah it was. It's like
ruined it now so now it's the sex sheet. But
(11:55):
now I'm thinking, okay, I should actually get a legit
sex sheet. How much yet? And I'm gonna report back, please, patrons,
and to text You'll be like this was this was
fire and if it wasn't, I'm gonna let you know
that too that because I know you want my opinion.
Please listen, baby, you won the game. Yeah, you won.
(12:17):
You win my unconditional love, which is what everyone is
buying for a clear messy Patrons, if you have any
prompts or other games that you want to play, just
email that to tell me something messy at gmail dot com. Now,
speaking of messy, Zach, will you tell me something messy?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Sure? So I was thinking about this and I was thinking, like,
do I want to do something that's like literally messy
or figuratively messy? And I think I found one that
kind of combines a little bit of both.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Oh my god, I knew I see when I when
I when you were coming on the show. By the way,
I had asked people like who guess should be and
your name came up quite a number of times. I
was like, of course, already doing it.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Don't I feel honored.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, I was like, oh my girl, it's gonna come
with the mess, So go ahead, baby.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So I was at a Fullsome East. Okay, so like
like so fulsome fears like in San Francisco and that
people have sex on the street. There are piss pools.
You're allowed to kind of do that the fulsome East.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It's regulated, by the way, and maybe next year I really.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Do want to go fullsome East. You can't like have nudity,
you can you don't have the piss pools. You can't fuck.
And again that's like people are being like that's so lame,
and I'm like, it's literally the city of New York,
Like yeah, it's like it's in the City of New York.
It's on the street. And so I'm so my girlfriend
is a pro dom and she's like by uh usually
dates women. I often date men. And then obviously I'm
(13:48):
by two and I'm meeting her friends for the first time.
So her friends are all like bisexual or lesbian domes
as well pro doms as well, and.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
So they're all fucking of doms, a.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Gaggle of what would be like the word forget, like
a a.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Fury of doms a like, yeah, there's got to be
like a good word for it, but a h anyway,
But like, so I'm meeting my partners like friends for
the first time, yes, meeting them in this context.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
They're all gorgeous. They're all like, don't fuck around because
they're doms, and they have very good boundaries and they're
slightly intimidating. And so we're there and towards the end,
you know, we've been drinking, we have to pee. And
for a place that didn't want it was trying to
discourage public urination play, there really wasn't that many bathrooms
to use. So it's at the end and what they
(14:42):
end up doing because they all are into piss play.
They're all fucking into piss play, like obsessed with that.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
So a gaggle of doms who are all into piss play.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Yes, So one of them lays over like the subway
grates or like the drain whatever that is. And again,
you are not supposed to be doing this. Where are
we but we are in So we're just really on
the street of like New York I think it's in
like the West, like around Hell's Kitchen region, I think
it was. And you're on the street. So one of
(15:13):
them lays down on the grate or I don't know,
have great the right word on that whatever that thing is,
and they're like they all just start like pissing on her.
I like, and again, you are not supposed to be
doing this, And the joy on their faces, they are ecstatic,
they are so happy, all of them just like elevated,
(15:33):
as like these three women are pissing on them. And
and Eve, my partner was like, Zach you to P two,
like you can peel. Is this a nighttime No, this
is like maybe like five PM like like and people
are definitely like watching us do this. And I'm like
he was like, oh, like, Zach you' to P two
And I'm like, well, I was like, hey, do you
feel comfortable and she was like yeah, Sack, I love
(15:55):
you to do this. So I whip out my dick
and of course I now have like four beautiful women
staring at it. I get pa, Shai, I can't fucking
pee for the life of me, and you can tell.
And one of them just like essentially starts domming me
to pee, and I'm so fucking nervous.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
And I'm like trying to look like because I'm also so,
what is it done?
Speaker 1 (16:14):
It would just be like, Zach, you have to fucking pee.
If not, you're not a real man, like a masculating man.
Oh I am like, and I'm like, oh my god.
And Eve was like, you can do this, you can
do this. I get like a little bit of pee out,
like just enough that I was accepted by the friend group.
I'm not emasculated.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
And I that was I feel like my initiation process.
And since then her friends have liked me.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
So uh.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I always find it funny because like I date, when
I date women, I haven't dated a straight woman in
years since I've come out as by Actually I'm not him.
That was in twenty fifteen Public life. Yeah, and it's
in part because straight women won't date me, right that
that's not what it is. But I date like by women,
And it's always funny because, like I think gay men
(17:03):
often think of ourselves as being very kinky, and and
in many ways we are. We were getting fisted, we're
eating ass, we're doing piss. We'll like yeah, but we
do like a lot of like anonymity and like sex
parties and that type of stuff versus like lesbians the
kinky lesbians or by women that I know. It's like, oh,
we do blood play and put needles in each other,
like like it is a much more play.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
And what needle? What kind of need what's in the needle.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
It's no, nothing's in the needle. But it's just about
you have like a piercing fetish. Do you kind of
you can put it through the skin I've seen like
or you can pierce the skin the way that will
bleed and then they put like a cup on it,
like the cupping devices that you do on acupuncture, which
like brings and draws out the blood.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
What do you do with the blood?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Whatever the fuck you want to do that? You could
fuck with it? You put it in vials and wear
it around each other's necks.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I got it.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
I'm not a by woman, I'm not lesbian. You got
to ask that, Brandon, you wantau it's or maybe this
is just the women that I know. Obviously I'm not
trying to stereotype of groups.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
But but like, but this exists, this type of play exists,
and so making notes we need to have we need
we need to have a separate deeper dive episode. Okay,
go ahead, there's a.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I feel like in most cities, I've heard of a
vampire dyke party and this is like like a common one,
and that's one that is more blood play and needle
play focus, and I feel like that exists in most
major cities. But it's just so funny because you know,
before dating my partner, like I thought like, oh, I'm kinky,
(18:31):
like I do some crazy shit, and it's it's a
really different type of kinky than she is. And obviously
we'll be meet in the middle of but we have it.
But like she will say things that you should have
her on the show. But there's one story that I'm
just trying to say and that I'm done. One of
her favorite clients could not have meat and he's never
had meat before. So what he wanted was she jerked
(18:54):
him off with brashuto and he, I'm like, came immediately
came in the burshudo and then he and that was
the first time he ever had like meat.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Sorry, sorry, I forgot this is a this is an
audio meeting my jaw, like.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
The creativity of doms. I don't think like people like
the story she says, and it's like, fuck, I'm a
sex columnist. I hear people. I've received hundreds of messages
from people sharing their sex stories whatever it is. I
read books on this. I am educated in this, Like
this is what I do. I'm not like this guy
doesn't know his fucking shit. And I'm like and she'll
(19:32):
say the stuff and I'm like, Holy mother of God,
like I just created. There's so much to sex that like,
even as someone who's a quote unquote expert, I hate
that word. I like saying I'm a columnist and that
is what I do. I'm a writer first, you know
what I mean. But like there's still I mean, I
read your book, you know, I know some stuff. I
(19:54):
know some stuff. But yeah, the if you want to
fucking messy, messy ass episode, come on.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Wait, I have so many.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, any questions, concerns.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I'm still on the subway, great, just a little bit,
just a little bit. I just want to know after I.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Does the actually go down into the subway on.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Like are you peeing on people below? And my other
question is, well afterwards does the person who got peed
on are y'all going home?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Shockingly, I was like, hey, I have a spare shirt, oh,
like if you want one because or whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
It was kind to have some water on you too.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
No, everyone was she did not smell. She was well
like I think we were all just very hydrate. Well, no,
we were tricky like beer. I don't know how, but
for whatever the reason, she like afterwards, she put on
my shirt and we went out dancing at a club.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
That's because it's the gaggle of lesbian dogs. Oh that's
not the magic, the magic well heaven of don.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Com of dosh.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Okay, I love that thing. You. I forgot what we're doing, messy.
There have so many questions, right, great, let's move into
so Mike actually, so I'll actually make it about sex
in general and how expansive it is. I think what's
so exciting about talking to you and about these stories
(21:22):
is realizing that there are just so many experiences that
I haven't had or like even dared to dream of.
Because my thing here with with this show is that
I'm also learning along with anything else. But it's like, oh,
I thought that, like that was pushing my boundary, but
then you're telling me, no, we're laying on a grate
and having somebody on my at five pm, and like, oh, okay,
(21:44):
I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
You can't even and like, what's funny is even I
have pretty boring sex, like like you know what I mean,
Like we enjoy it obviously, but I guess maybe boring
is not the right word. But it's it's vanilla.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Vanilla Okay, Oh I got it.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah, it's viennilla where it's just like we say I
love you and like missionary or doggie, you know what
I mean, and everyone's just like romantic. How does the
man that calls himself the boy slut and a pro
dom that. I'm like, it's because we're lazy and tired,
and that is the truth of it.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
And it is multitude, so it's in multitudes.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
But we finally did. And I've never really asked her
been dating almost a year and hooking up a little
bit longer, and like I never really asked her to
dom me because I'm like, hey, this is this is
your job, you know what I mean, And you don't
want to come home from work and do this, And
imagining if I wrote for ten hours a day and
he was like, hey, do you want to write more,
I'd be like no, fuck you, like like absolutely good. Yeah,
(22:39):
And I also like and this was maybe my own insecurity.
I was a little bit afraid of being like a
client to hers, you know what, I wanted to be special.
I'm her boyfriend, I'm her partner. She loves me, and
I didn't want her necessarily in this head space of
this is what I do with clients, and now I'm
doing this my boyfriend and being on par and I
voice this concern and she was like, Zack, I've done
(23:00):
this with past romantic partners, and like, it is different.
Trust me, it's a different mindset when I really do
love someone, and it's not gonna be a typical session
what I do with you. But we just did our
first like we you know, we got a room in
her dungeon. We rented it out, and we did our
first scene like this, which the climax of it, without
getting too much into it, was I had a butt plug,
(23:22):
a vibrating but or anal beads inside of me, and
she saran wrapped me and completely sarano so I cannot
move except for my dick. My dick is out. So
then she edges me while I'm letting it on a
massage table. And every time you're about to come, she
you know, she can feel it. And she stops, but
she has a she uses like the wand on your
friendulum or like the base of your dick, and is
(23:44):
jerking you off, and right as you're about to come,
uh yeah, she'll stop. And I wanted to like this
is something we'd like talked about. It was super hot.
I was brandon. I was so fucking nervous, like in
a way that I was not expecting. And it's like
it's like, Eve, of course I trust you, I love you,
but like I went in, I didn't know like I was,
(24:06):
and like she like literally at one point laid on
top of me and was like zack box breathing in
for fours for four out for four. When she lays
on top of me, that always calms me down right.
It's like a way to blanket. But it was such
a fun thing. But at the end, I thought she
was gonna make me come, and she's like didn't. I
was like wait, and I'm begging for her to make
me come. Like she's like, well, you want to do
an edging seat. I was like yeah, but I fucking come.
(24:27):
At the end, that's all the fucking all the fuck.
And then like literally so we go home, we have dinner,
we're out in the city, we go home, and the
moment we get in bed, I'm like, we need to
have so She's like, yeah, that was the whole point.
I want you to fucking come and me and not fucking.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Oh do this that's so romantic. How long does the
edging seed last? Uh?
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So we were in there for about so the first
of it's like me taking off her boots and kind
of worshiping her. The actual like edging portion of it
is maybe like forty minutes, and like, you know, like
she also like for me, she was kind of like
sixty nine ing where I was like eating her ass
while she was blowing me too, and I can't fucking again,
(25:05):
I'm wrapped up like a in a cocoon almost.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
It sounds like so romantic to me.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
It was cut romantic again. It was really cute. And
like I remember, when I got there, we hadn't discussed
what I call her. I'm like, do I call it?
She goes my mistress Eve is usually what it is,
and people call her mistress. I'm like, do I call you?
And I'm like yes. She says something like take off
your clothes and neatly put them in the corner. I go, yes,
and what do I call you? Mistress? And she's no,
(25:33):
that actually that that's weird for me for her okay,
because that I maybe would be. I'm like, how about
Eve and she's like, yes, just call me by my name?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Okay, Uh, that can I You've already shared so much,
but I would like you to share her Sure you down?
Because basically, so I get asked about We've had this
conversation offline, but I get asked about sex party. So
here's a submission that somebody sent in that I feel
(26:07):
like we can talk about together. That sounds cool, perfect, beautiful.
So this says I'm going to my first sex party
this weekend. I'm excited but also so nervous. Can I
please have a sex party? One oh one now? So
we won't do this? You and me, we wanna do this.
Mostly it's gonna be you, okay, but but I think
(26:28):
I'll try and and and start us off. Which is
what the fuck is a sex party? It seems so obvious,
but like, what is it?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah? I guess it's a place where people get together
and have sex.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And where does this happen?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
So a lot of them happen at like private clubs. Okay,
you know what I mean, because that's a way that
you're you know, you're legally allowed to do this, because
it is sometimes a little legal gray area. There are
some some are hosted for gay sex parties specifically. Some
are hosted like at maybe the basement of a club,
you know of a gay cruisy club that's kind of
(27:02):
known for people to hook up in, and they might
actually throw a more official party there, or you just
might go and it's not necessarily a party, but people
are having sex, right But and then also people do it,
people rent out spaces.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Okay, now I'll share that I went to my first
sex party two years ago, I think was my very
first sex party, and I was what was I feeling?
I was incredibly excited, also terribly nervous. I went with
two of my best friends and the biggest advice, which
I always tell people, was you bring your hoe bag.
(27:35):
So my best friend was, like, you need to have
your little crossbody bag that you keep on you that
as you know, your your wallet and whatever, but also
like your lube and your your wipes and like whatever
the things that you need during sex. Like that that
is something because you check your clothes.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, you often check your clothes or some you don't,
but it's like you definitely get to reveal in something
super sexy that like you're not gonna have pockets or
whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, what do you love about sex parties? Like, let's
I think that, like maybe we can talk about the specifics,
but to begin the emotional space of like what what
why a sex party? Why one might one be interested
in it? And what do you personally like get out
of a sex party?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I think there are a lot of things I get
to have a sex party. Obviously, First, let's like discuss
kind of the obvious. It's sex. Yeah, you get to
have you get to have sex with new people. It's
a space where that is allowed. Having that sexual freedom
is very cool. Uh, Fucking in front of other people
is very cool. Watching other people fuck is very cool.
You know, It's different than the type of sex I
(28:38):
have in my bedroom. There's also and what people talk
about is like the sex positive community, so they really
bring it up in a community context and so often
not always, but the people who go to sex parties
are potentially more open minded and you know, maybe on
the same mission as you brand into working to help
destigmatize shame and just so meeting other people with similar openness,
(29:03):
who with similar sex positivity when we live in this
world that is filled with sexual shame, it's like, oh,
like I feel like I found my people. Yeah, and
a lot of the my friends come from like the
sex again we call it like the sex positive community,
but people who go to sex parties, that's like what
it is, So it really is for many the community
aspect is really interesting. It's a way for me, especially
(29:27):
like of a sex party actually tomorrow night, speaking of which,
but it's a way for me, especially when I'm with
my partner and we start getting more boring or vanilla
or just like not putting in necessarily the work to
be you know, good sex takes work, especially with the
same person over time. A sex party is almost like
(29:47):
a cheat, at least for me, where just like it's
so easy to just sign up and fucking go, as
opposed to like everything else requires a little bit more
planning or effort or whatever it is. Versus this is like, Okay,
we're going to find a third together, and that's going
to be a interesting experience. I get to watch you
have sex, you get to watch me have sex, and
so especially when I have a partner, I actually like
(30:07):
to go to sex parties with them because that enhances
our sex life and our connection and something like that
and keeps things interesting and brings you know, new people
into the mix.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
In terms of the liberation or witnessing the liberation is
very I think healing, right. I think when you think
of a sex party, your immediate thought is, oh, are
these heathens? What are they diffling? But for me it's
always been like when I got there, it's like, oh,
the liberation here and the community here truly is unmatched,
(30:35):
because we do live in such a culture that really
shames us for our sexuality, especially for your folks even
more so. And so there is something about being able
to be in a space with like minded folks that
feels healing because it's like, oh, this isn't bad, this
isn't wrong. In fact, I'm literally in a space with however,
many other people who also are seeking this thing, and
(30:57):
so I find that to be fun also to your
So for me, Matthew and I don't go to sex
parties together because we, uh, there's he doesn't like to
see me with other people Like That's how our jealousy works. Yeah,
I get that, so we go to them separately, which
you know, I think also for me injects a little
something into the sex life because abs are not my
(31:18):
favorite for a lot of reasons. But being able to
be in person with people and being able to just
connect without even the needing for us to actually have sex.
They're in a space where we can but like, actually
we're here just connecting first.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
I've been to so many sex parties and not had sex. Yeah,
and I think people are potentially surprised by that. I
end up in whatever cool because some of them I
go to. I go to more bisexual sex parties. I
go to gay sex parties too, but those so they
might have I feel like the gay sex parties tend
to be more like you go, you fuck that, that
is the one thing to do, versus like straight sex
(31:52):
parties swinger sex parties by sexual ones. There might also
be dancing. There might also be oh, a hot tub
and you go and chill in that, or an outside
bar that you drink. There's kind of more to do,
but I'll be like okay by the fire pit. And
also it's being me and again like I am not
famous by any stretch of the imagination except for bisexual
(32:13):
sex partygoers in Brooklyn. That is my absolute audience, Like
that is my market. So when I go to these places,
I am recognized and people want to talk to me
about my book and do that and meet me and
do all this shit, which is fun and cool, and
I get to talk to new people who've engaged with
my work in a way and sometimes just end up
talking to people all night. I'm like, ash shit, and
(32:35):
by the end you're like, well, that's what I've done here.
I'm kind of over it.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
But like, I have a question, and this is a
little pivot. We'll come back to sex parties. But I'm
asking this because I feel like, for one, I've had
a number of specifically women who have come out to
me in their thirties and forties as bisexual, but they're
in hew to representing relationships. And so now since I
have you in your you have a partner, a female partner,
(33:02):
which is the head of representing. Is that am I
using that terminology? Okay, I'm presenting how do you? I
think a common question is how do you hold on
to your queerness or take up space in queer spaces
when you feel is because what I what I get
from from those people talking to me is that they
feel like they can't take up queer space because they're
(33:23):
not presenting as queer.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Well, this is an ongoing challenge, This is not something
you're alone with. I really not to plug my own shit.
I wrote an op ad for The New York Times
a few years ago, specifically focusing on women in you know,
straight passing relationships, bisexual women with men who do not
feel queer enough, and how to navigate those feelings. And
(33:49):
one thing I kind of spoke about is being often
I think there's a confusion where being queer, like validly queer,
equates to being more marginalized and persecuted, which is so
fucking sad to me. It's like, you're not queer if
you've been a victim of a hate crime, and obviously
you do have privilege by being a straight passing relationship.
(34:10):
When I hold hands with a boyfriend walking down the street,
I'm afraid of getting the shit kicked out of me.
I'm not afraid of that when I'm holding hands with
a woman. You know what I mean. Like, there are
some simple things.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
But like your queerness isn't rooted. The definition of your
queerness isn't rooted in your oppression or your trauma.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
It is not. And so you are equally as queer
as they are, you know what I mean? You absolutely are. Again,
you should use your privilege and your voice to help
the more marginalized within the queer community. And I'm always like,
I want you to use your fucking husband's investment, banking money,
his story, fucking bazement Bucky to fucking support other marginalized queers.
But you're equally as queer. But like, I think the
(34:47):
answer is creating more queer spaces, finding these queer spaces,
finding these bisexual spaces where you're not alone, You're not
the only you know, there are a shit ton of
by people there in these hetero passing relationshi, so you
don't feel awkward, you don't feel uncomfortable, and they are
popping up more and more, which is really cool to see.
But yeah, it's a sadness that I have that I
(35:09):
want to go to a gay club and I would
love to go with my girlfriend, and I don't. That's
the truth. That will be a night where I'll go
out with my gay friends or my by male friends
or whatever it is, because she like, when she's in
that space, the guys fucking look at her up and down,
like they can be so cunty and so mean, especially
if they see her with a hot guy and they're
jealous and they're upset by that shit, and it's like,
she doesn't want to deal with that shit. I don't
(35:31):
want her to have to deal with that shit. That's
not fun for either of us. So I think finding
your people, finding your spaces, finding your parties, finding your community.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Finding your people. Yeah, the welcoming of sometimes sometimes gays
can be so cold. The oppressed community is we just
continue to do it, but people hurt people there. It
is there. But in talking about that, I do think,
you know, especially for those people who might be coming
out or realizing there bisexually later or feeling some you know,
(36:01):
is imposter syndrome around being in a head or presenting,
I would imagine that a queer sex party or a
bisexual specific queer sex party or just party would be
a great way to exactly start to mitigate that and
start to break away the whatever shame or whatever whatever
burden you're carrying around a taking up space.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yeah, and it's still I'm gonna buy authors group with
with some of my by friends and it's actually all
women and then me, but but again, all my friends
are by women. That's literally the only people I know.
I look, I got taste. That's what it is. That's
what it is. I got taste. But still, and these
(36:43):
are people who are prominent authors in the queer community
who still have impost syndrome. And what helps is when
we talk about it. We just text each other being like, hey,
I'm feeling this, I'm feeling the struggle and like, hey,
I've been there too, So I think maybe there's some
solidarity or some comfort and knowing that you're not alone
in this and this is something that's going to be
(37:05):
on and on. But like following those bisexual meme accounts
or the accounts that really are supportive of you, and like,
so again, when you go through this alone and you
feel alone and you're like you're the only one that's
going through this. You don't know anyone you can talk
to or anyone you like you can be with, fuck
like like, yeah, you're You're gonna spiral. So it really
is finding your people in community, Following the correct social
(37:27):
media accounts that affirm you.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Do you remember a time at a sex party where
you felt truly validated in your bisexuality.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Oh god, yes, I can do promo for my book.
Oh you can't see it, boy slide, which the paperback
is now out. It is hot pay we love a
paperback moment, right, she's cute. Uh. So I through and
it's actually the last chapter of my book because I
the beginning I talked about my lack of communion. By
(37:56):
the end it's how I'm fostering community. Yes, uh, and
so the last chapters about a party I threw called
by Slot, which I remember boy Slot brand boy Slot.
But you see what I did there?
Speaker 2 (38:08):
She did it.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
She did it, and it was there was a moment
where because the thing is one thing I struggled with
with sex parties was obviously gay sex parties are all
men that the lesbians have their sex parties, and the
queer sex parties I would often see would be like
men hooking up with women and women hooking up with women,
but not actually men hooking up with men. And I
(38:32):
think there was still a little bit of a I
think men you know, a lot of by men have
been rejected by women, like like and we still have.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
This fear culturally around and just being the first to
do it, or just they weren't going to these places.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
And I remember, I'm like in the basement of the
sex party and I'm doing like a three sixty turn
and I'm just seeing like the gayest, queerest, most bisexual
like men having sex with men while their girlfriend fists
them like like you know, like the double like a
guy and a girl giving a guy a blowjob, while
so many things in so many people's asses, And it
(39:08):
was actually the most bisexual sex like I had seen
in a public space where it actually really was that,
And I started crying.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I was so happy.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
And this party was actually open to the public. It
wasn't like usually a lot of these sex clubs are
like members only, and they do that for safety and
to vet people whatever it is, and this was not.
And I had multiple men come up to me, specifically
by men who felt like they didn't have a space.
So it's a little bit different, but being like this
has been the most affirming party I've been to my life.
(39:40):
I've never been able to express myself and be myself
and be open with my wife, but desire men like
gay spaces I didn't feel included straight spaces. I was weird,
you know, whatever it was. And one thing I will say, so, yeah,
this was very affirming to me obviously, Like there is
something about when I have threeesomes with a man and
a woman, I feel very bisexual. Well you know what
I mean, Like it's like or someone non binary, whatever
(40:04):
it is. But like you know, when I'm having sex
with like a two hundred and fifty pound like muscle
bottom who's hairy, I'm not like, oh, this is bisexual.
I'm like, this is some gay as shit, I'm doing it,
you know what I mean. It doesn't like you do.
I do feel affirmed in these threesomes. One thing that
I'm working on as I'm trying to build community as well,
is how to have these bisexual spaces that are actually
not focused on sex parties, because I feel like most
(40:27):
of the buy spaces I know are sex spaces, which
are great for me personally. I fucking love that, but
obviously they're people in monogamous relationships. They don't want to
go to sex prize whatever the fuck it is. And
I'm like, why can't we do bisexual rock climbing? Bisexuals
fucking love rock climbing. They're obsessed with that shit. They
love that. I fucking hate it. I fucking hate it.
I'd like people I might be rock called me like, no,
(40:47):
my wrists are gonna hurt. I'm gonna hate this.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
My forum suck.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
I'm not strong enough. No, I don't want to be
putting a weird fucking thing where I get a wedgie
with the fucking Like, No, they love that shit, we
love that ship whatever the fuck the community. The community
loves it, and like, how do we like, I don't know,
bisexual open relationship rock climbing job. I feel like that
would be I.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Mean, wow, is that?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
I feel like that already is like a thing, they
just don't call it that. Yeah, but like, yeah, I
would love to see more buy spaces like or buy clubs,
even if it's drinking and dancing whatever it is like
that has that more.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Space for emotional connection.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah, and not just sex and for people. Yeah, And
that doesn't.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Mean like emotional connection is like I'm hoping to fall
in love with this person, but just like like a
connect connecting to people, connecting to people that are that
have a similar experience to you, which I think is
so you know what you're talking about in this Even
at the sex party, just being able to see a
representation of yourself and how you love and how you
make love or how you fuck in front of you
(41:46):
can be so healing because I think there is so
much regardless even if you're like a straight white man.
I think that all of us holds some set of
shame and pain around sex, of course, and and and
questions if if we're doing it right and what we're
and if what we like is correct, Which is why
I love the coven of doms who are like.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
I love them, we love them.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
I love them who are owning what what they love
and who are leaning into what brings them pleasure. And
I think more, I think that that should be the
goal for all of us. That is my hope for
this person who is having their first sex party. What
would you say, regardless whether it's a bisex party, queer, straight, Like,
(42:32):
what are the top three? Or I don't want to
give you a whole number, but what are your top tips?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
So I also have written like an article for Men's
Health which is literally like very in depth, a shit
ton of tips for your first time going to a
sex party. We're going to put that in the note.
We'll put that on the notes, so that's there.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
I think a few things to note, but some more
generic ones are like I think it's fun to go
with a friend or a partner for your first time
because it can be somewhat scary. It doesn't have to
be someone you're having sex with. But like I think
people there's a lot of downtime at sex parties, Like
you still have to flirt. Sex is not guaranteed. You
don't just go and be like do you want to fuck?
(43:08):
Everyone's like yes, Like yeah, put a little work into it,
so you're still like you will be alone at a
sex party, and it's like unless if you're someone who's
naturally very gregarious and sociable and can go up to people,
it's easier to just have a friend or partner or
buddy in some capacity. I think it's very important to
(43:29):
kind of like most sex parties they actually have like
a very extensive like do's and don't, Like what is
the vibe of the sex party? So like like read
that so you get a sense of like what's going on. Obviously,
I would say get dressed up, look sexy, look like
put some effort into it. You're going out, this is
an exciting thing, and you're more likely to meet people
(43:50):
that way. Yeah. One thing that's always important to know
is like learn like you should not be going to
a sex party if you do not feel comfortable saying now,
and so you need to be able to say And
it's always just been like hey, thank you, but I'm
not looking right now, or I'll come find you later,
whatever it is. There are some kind of like universal
(44:11):
phrases be like oh no, right now, I'm just chilling
with my friends, but if I change my mind, I'll
come find you. And if you get rejected, the only
response is to say awesome, thank you so much. And
that's it. Like do not be pushy, do not be aggressive,
do not do anything like that, obviously, but it's not
obvious people still do that, or people take it personally
or they kind of get like, oh sorry, I was
(44:31):
just trying to like connect and then like make you
feel guilty for saying, like, don't be that fucking person. Yeah,
So going with friends, I would obviously steer clear from
drinking or doing like drugs for your first time. That's like,
you know, I think there's when you're nervous. At least
for me, I still have the desire to be like,
let me have fifteen shots, right, It's like, don't do that.
You want to be able to consent. You want to
make sure you're able to read other people's body language.
(44:54):
That's very important. I think. It's also one thing which
is a little difference between straight and gay sex parties,
which I emphasize is knowing what the norms of consent
are in the space. So in like straight, bisexual, mixed
gender spaces, typically the type of consent is enthusiastic consent,
(45:15):
which means you know, anything that's not a fuck yes
as a fuck no, and you verbally asked, being like hey,
I'd love to kiss you, and you wait for their response, right,
and you need that verbal enthusiastic yes versus at a
lot of gay sex parties it's more opt out consent,
which is more no means no, So someone is likely
(45:37):
to touch you, you know what I mean, without honestily
asking to touch you, and if you brush their hand
away or you say no, then they'll stop. But if
you don't feel comfortable with someone touching you. And I
remember the first time I went to a gay sex
party was actually the first time I think I went
to fulsome East. I was living in Boston. I came
up for it, so this is maybe like nine years like,
of god, we're not going to any younger nine ten
(45:58):
years ago. I went there and all these guys were
grabbing me and touching me, and I told my boyfriend
for five minutes, I'm like, I need to get the
fuck out of here. I need to get the fuck
out of here right now. I'm overwhelmed. I do not
like this. Now I know that the norm is that,
and the reason why the norm is that is kind
of twofold. It's hot. It's sexy to just be able
to touch people and grabs people's asses feel comfortable. If
you're a guy in a sling blindfolded, you don't want
(46:20):
someone to come up to you being like, hey, honey,
would it be okay if I stick my dick in
your ass?
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Like?
Speaker 1 (46:24):
No, the whole point do you want to be taken?
You want the anonminimity? You want this?
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (46:30):
So now I have to be in the right headspace
to go to a gay sex party. If I'm not
in the mood to be fucking touched, then then then
where I'm going so yeah, So again if in case
this was a gay man that asked, I don't know
the gender of the person, like, okay, this is something
to be mindful of. So knowing what the norms of
consent are in that space, following that, when I say
(46:50):
bring a buddy, bring you know, your condoms in lube
and poppers or whatever it is that you need else
look sexy, you feel sexy. I feel like there's some
tips there, and again the rest.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Will be in the article. That'll be the article. Yeah,
I also think what would I add to I really,
I really thank you for differentiating the types of consent,
because that is I remember the first time I went
to a steam room, and luckily I was with a
friend of mine who gave me the rundown. But one
of the things was people will touch you, and if
you don't want that, just brush it away like that
(47:21):
was that's how this space operates, which you don't if
you've never been and no one says that to you,
then people are touching you. I can imagine that that
would be It would have been jarring. Had I not
had that piece of information, that very crucial piece of information,
I probably would have been jarred by the way that
people were touching me. But yeah, so that is a
very valuable piece of information. I also think, well, it
(47:42):
is half I don't want to say half fun, but
expectations and not putting pressure on yourself to have to
have sex, which is I just want to reiterate that, like,
go to experience, allow it to be an experience without
feeling like, oh I need to actually perform.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
I actually think you should maybe go in with your
first time thinking you're not going to have sex. I
like having that, and if you do have sex, it's
a pleasant surprise. But if you go in with the
mindset of like I just want to scope out and
see what the fuck the scene is, you're not going
to be disappointed. And I've had that even I have
to sometimes go into a sex party being like, is
this a night where I want to have sex and
if so, I need to make that happen, or is
(48:23):
this a night I just want to reconnect with friends
I haven't seen in schmooze because sometimes I go not
really have a sense and then end up smoozing and
not having sex and then feeling disappointed. I'm like, well, no,
I still had a good time. But like because I
didn't like verbalize in my head like what is it
I'm trying to do? So I think maybe having some
(48:43):
people will ask you at sex parties like what is
your intention tonight? Ye? And I think that's kind of
a great like, hey, is my goal like I want
to have a crazy kinky scene or is the goal
like I just want to watch people have sex or
meet new people or just be held whatever it is.
So I think actually potentially having somewhat of an intention
might help guide your behaviors and actions.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
I love that because you know I love an intention,
so that I love that go to your sex party
with an intention, like what define for yourself what your
intention is before you show up to this space? And
then I'll also add I did an interview with someone
and she was explaining that she went to a sex
party and I love this phrase. She said it was
my space but not my people. And I think that
(49:26):
that's okay too, Like you might go somewhere and you'd
be like, oh, like I like this vibe, but for
whatever reason, the way that the dynamics are set up,
or it might not be for me, and that's okay too,
I think, which I wish I had that at certain
like there were certain things that I've been to. I'm like,
oh I love a sex party, I love this whatever,
but this this group may not be my group to
(49:49):
do this with.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
There are especially like some of the sex parties that
are like four hundred dollars a person, and it's very
much just like these older men with these gorgeous younger women,
and like that's fine, and that's their space. That's that
I go and I'm like, okay, like not necessarily my scene.
It's just not for you. Go find another party, you
find your people.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Yeah, there you go. I love that. I'm so happy
you were here. This is such a lovely conversation.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
This was I do ten billion of these as I'm
sure you do as fucking well, and this was just like, hey,
I got to talk about different ship. Yeah, this was
far more fun than any of the rest of them.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Think educational too. So I just want to thank you
that this was because I fucking you get tired of
this talking about the same ship, you know what I mean.
So I appreciate this.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Thank you Brandon, of course, thank you for being here
and for all of your knowledge, And I'm just so
grateful for your friendship and for your for your expertise, Well,
we don't like expertise, we like what did you say?
You don't like expert I just.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
Want for your for your writing, for your writing, your writing,
your contributions speaking.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Thank you. I love you, baby, I love you to
what a conversation. I love zech so much. Listen, you
already know that we are hose here, but hose with heart.
So before we get out of here, let me speak
(51:15):
to yours and specifically, I'm gonna talk to my bisexual community,
especially for those of y'all who are in hetero presenting
relationships or straight passing relationships, or those of you who
are coming out later in your journey. I just want
you to know that you can take up space, and
(51:37):
I'm m you know, I don't know. If somebody has
a problem with it, send them my way and I'll
fight on your behalf. Because you are queer. You're queer,
Your queerness matters, your experience matters. We are not a monolith.
There's not one version of being queer that's not one
queer experience. In fact, what makes I think the queer
community such a beautiful and vibrant space is the fact
(52:00):
that our tapestry is so so I'm gonna use the
word diverse, controversial word, but it's so layered and nuanced
and has so many intricacies, and it's so colorful. And
so don't shrink yourself or hide yourself because you're afraid
of how other people are going to perceive you. Live
(52:22):
your life for you, not for the masses. Use your privilege,
of course, know what spaces you're in, of course, but
don't hide who you are. Who you are matters. And
there are people who are willing and ready and who
desire to welcome you, who desire to include you, and
(52:43):
those who don't. Don't data your people. Remember five might
be your space, not your people, you know, So don't
stress about the people who are hating. I'll let you
want to seecret. The people who are hating have their
own insecurities that they're navigating, have their own triggers that
they're navigating, have their own things that they're working through, hopefully,
(53:06):
and they might project that onto you, and you might
bring something up for them that has nothing to do
with you. And that is a lesson for anybody that
doesn't matter about your queerness. Whatever that is a lesson
for everybody. When somebody is reacting versus responding, I say react,
run to the attack. So if you ever feel like
you're on the receiving end of a reaction, remember that
it's probably not about you. It has everything to do
(53:28):
with that person. So be yourself, love yourself, be kind
to yourself, be gentle with yourself. Find your people, find
your space, find your coven of doms. Okay, honey, and
I just love you. I just want you to know
that you're left. I love you so much. All Right,
I gotta get out of here, but y'all make sure
(53:49):
you check out Zach's articles, which will be in our
show notes if you're interested. Find Zach's book at your
local bookstore. Support those local bookstores. I can't recommend Voicelet,
which is one word for one word. I can't recommend
it enough. You can also find Zach on Instagram at
Zachary Zane Underscore or on their their substack which is
(54:11):
the Voicelet zine. And if you go to our Messy
Monday's substack, Zach is recommended there, so there's a link
on the side. You can find me on Instagram as
well at branded Kyle Goodman. You can find our podcast
at tell Me Something Messy and you can join our
community on the Messy Monday's substack. When you subscribe, you'll
get weekly posts, recommendations on sex and self and so
(54:35):
much more. Also, I want to hear from you, so
send your topic ideas, your messy stories, your submissions, your
game ideas to tell Me Something Messy at gmail dot com.
You can also call us at six six nine sixty
nine Messy. That is six six nine six nine six
three seven seven nine for you host who can't spill.
(54:57):
I'm gonna say that every week, rate review and share
this podcast with all your HOE and aspiring HOE friends.
Really really helps the show out, all right, Until next time,
ask about the politics of that dick before you make
it spit, make sure they eat the kitty before they
beat the kitty, before fucation or suctation communication. And in
(55:18):
case you haven't heard it yet, today you are so
deeply loved. I love you bye. Thank you so much
for listening to tell Me Something Messy. If you all
enjoyed the show, send the episode to someone else who
might like it. Tell Me Something Messy was executive produced
by Ali Perry Gabrielle Collins and Yours Truly. Our producer
(55:39):
and editor is Vince de Johnny. For more podcasts from
iHeartRadio and the Outspoken Network, visit the iHeartRadio app or
anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.
So I whip out my deck and of course I
now have like four beautiful women staring at it. I
get pa shy. I can't fucking pee for the life
of me, and you can tell. And one of them
just like essentially starts damming me to pee, and I'm
so fucking nervous.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And I'm like trying to look like because I'm also
so what is it done?
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Just feel like, Zach, you have to fucking pee. If not,
you're not a real man like emasculating man.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Oh you know what we do here, destroy shame around
sex by talking about sex.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Now, let me tell you something messy. So I have
received messages from y'all about loads and uh, somebody sent
me a message saying, my pussy is so filled up
with come, I don't know what to do, uh, which
you know I love that y'all come to messy Mo
(00:55):
for advice. My advice was to simply push it out
when somebody said they're just bragging, which you know I
love when y'all brag about your filled up kittie. But
somebody else said, the most effective method I've found is
more of a scoop with your finger technique. Pushing doesn't
get the whole load, and then you're all drippy. Obviously
(01:17):
the more you ho somebody else offered, I hear the
best method is to gag on something while you push.
If y'all understand, if you know, you know um, And
somebody else says, agreed that that is true. A gag
or a cough pushes it right out, and then somebody else, Hello,
(01:39):
my messy patron, said a partner, sucking it out. Look
at all these we are a community here, and we
are going to teach you how to push that load out.
And I will say I do think pushing the load
out is important. I learned this because my boyfriend and
I when we first got together, we were going to
a party, but we decided to obviously meet up before,
(01:59):
and we fucked before, flipped all the things, and then
you know, we gave each other our baby juice. And
like I thought it was hot to keep the baby
juice in. I gotta find a new work. I thought
it was hot to keep the cream filling in. Like
I'm a twinkie. I wanted to be a twinkie that night.
(02:22):
So we were like, let's keep it in and go
to this party and then maybe like two hours into
the party, both of our stomachs were wreck gurgling nothing no,
but like not not in the number two sets because
we were douche so it wasn't nothing coming out, but
just like that come in the guts with the enzymes.
I'm not a scientist, and with the bacteria and with
(02:44):
the lining of the colon, I'm not a scientist. I
think started to do something. We were like, oh, we
have to leave, and so we left, went home and
we ordered I think Jack in the Box, which is
my first time having Jack in the Box. All this
to say it is important to push out your low
and find the way to push it out. The way
I like to push it out now is because I
(03:05):
feel like I can keep it in for like an
hour or so, but then I really do want to
get it out if I can get out immediately, especially
if I fuck before I go out, and then I'm
gonna fox some more. Just go to the bathroom, sit
down and push. Same way I got that butt plug out,
which I don't know if I've told you that story
but not today, but you know, when the butt plug
got lost inside me, I had to sit on the
toilet and push. Okay, so sit on the toilet push
(03:28):
or use the finger technique or have a partner suck out.
Either way works. By the way, Welcome to the show.
This is tell me something messy. I'm your host, Brandon
Kyle Goodman. Some people call me messy mom, but you
can call me the pussy plumber. Okay, boom march done. Okay,
let's get the show started.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Baby.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
You know what that means. It's time for I guess Now,
while they get situated, we'll get our messy key key
started with a hoe manifest stove repeat after me aloud
or in your head. Grant me the serenity to unpact
my shame, the courage to heal, the wisdom to know
that sex is not just about penetration, the audacity to
(04:09):
advocate for my pleasure and boundaries. The strength to not
call my ex that fuck boyfuck girl, or fuck lay,
for it is better to masturbate by myself in peace
than to let someone play in my motherfucking face. Let
the community say oh lelujah. Now, before I introduce our guests,
I just want to give you a heads up. There's
(04:30):
a little bit of some audio glitchy things, but the
conversation is so incredible. It is worth it to navigate
some of the glitchings. Honey, we're messy. We're messy here, Okay. Now,
I am so excited to have Zachary Zaane on the show. Now,
let me give you a little bio. We like to
we like to let the people know who is here. So.
(04:50):
Zachary Zane is a columnist and author whose work focuses
on sexuality, culture, and the LGBTQ community. He is the
author of boy Slut, a memoir and manifesto which I
highly recommend, and co author of Men's Health Best Sex Ever.
He writes sexplain It, the sex and relationship advice column
(05:12):
at Men's Health, and Navigating non Monogamy, the polyamorous relationship
column at Cosmopolitan. Bitch you are writing Okay. He is
editor in chief at The Boycelet Zine, which publishes non
fiction erotica from Kinkster's across the globe. His work has
been featured in New York Times, Rolling Stone, Washington Post,
(05:33):
play Boy, and more. Y'all please tell me welcome, Zachary.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Say hi, nach I'm so excited to be here. I'm
so excited to talk to you. I think it's gonna
be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
This is gonna be so much fun. We're gonna do
a lou breaker, but then I'll gush around you more.
But you know, Baker, you know what I'm saying. Okay,
So the game is, would you or rather? Are you
down to play? Of course? Love it? What if you
were like, no bench, no thank you, I'm gonna pass.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Okay? Uh, well everyone knows, how would you rather go?
I'm gonna give you two options, and you're gonna tell
me which you would rather. So here we go. Would
you rather? These are actually from messy patrons and I'm obsessed. Okay,
So would you rather make out with someone who has
bad breath? Or get your hole eaten by someone who's
a little teethy?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
The bad breath is like I really dislike that, you know,
and and I feel bad and like I my breath
in the morning.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
My partner describes it as a seagull shitting in my
mouth because literally literally the meds that I'm on, my
sleeping meds and anxiety meds, they dry out your mouth.
So in the morning it is like I like, I
go to give them a kiss, and lately they're just
like they're like I love your stick. I'm like it's
so bad, so I feel bad for them. I feel
bad for me again, How did that come up?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
How did your partner what? Like what was the context?
Were you like, let me kiss you early? More like
your your bread smells like a seagull shitting.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I mean I I can taste it. It's that bad.
So I knew this, so it wasn't like, oh, this
is news to me.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Well, everyone has morning bread like.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Like disgusting, like like really disgusting, and I'm like, I'll
go brush my teeth and they're like, no, it's fine,
it's fine, honey. I love you. I'm like, that's really sweet.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
But again, I'm trying to think, how do you even
get teeth into a butthole?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Like like that would be feel like it's like your
your your I on the whole in your you're like
as you're eating it, you're also like dragging your teeth
on it, or you're biting the hole a little bit,
a little bit teethy. It's not full teeth.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I would say teeth y because I'd feel more comfortable
telling someone like, hey, watch the teeth, as opposed to
being like, oh, your breath is bad, which is I
feel like a more personal attack, so like like your
brother's bad, like no, gross, don't kiss me, as opposed
to like I've gotten head. That's a little bit teeth.
I'm like, hey, careful of the teeth. And you say that,
(08:07):
and that's not something that's like insulting the same way
and that like breath is insulting. So I'd go with
Who knows, I might like a little teeth on the
booty hole.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I might actually enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I don't know, but yeah, I'd go with that one
just because I'd feel more comfortable saying something.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I'm also making out is like my is my biggest
turn on or one of my biggest turn ons, So
I too would choose the teeth because you're right, maybe
I would, Like I did just learn from somebody I
was hanging out with a little while ago, and they
love and they didn't say teeth on the whole, but
they love like biting, like they have a biting k kink,
(08:43):
and so.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
So many people knew.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, they taught me. I didn't know how to do
that properly, so they taught me how to to bite
them and like how to graize their arm with my
teeth and it was very they were enjoying it. It
was hot to me. I don't. I haven't had it
done to me, so I don't. I can't. Jury's out,
but my partner.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Is very bity. Just for if that's the word. I
feel like you can see I got like hickey's still
on me, and I kind of love getting hickeys. I
feel like I haven't had one since I was like seventeen,
and then to like get it again, I'm like, this
is cute and it's got a little reminder that they're there.
I obviously work in a profession where like, if I
come in with a hickey, it's exploded of me. No
(09:25):
one cares, so, like I don't have to worry about that.
But it's something that I've kind of been cute. See.
It makes me feel young in a fun way. Yeah,
you love that.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Okay. This one is would you rather get fingered by
someone who has long nails or have intercourse with someone
who sweats like they're in the steam room?
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Oh definitely the sweat. No, the long nail. That fucking hurts.
That that is like, that is a painful thing. You
scratched the inside of your ass, like you're gonna get
a fisher, like you can bleed that shit is I've
had that happen. That is not fun. Sweat is hot,
like sweat like like sweat, I mean literally, but like
that's if you're into it and you're both sweating and
like that can be like a really sensual thing. I
(10:06):
have some partners or people I know who are just like, hey,
I sweat profusely during sex. I have like a I
have like a squirt sheet, like a like a what
do you mean a sports sheet? So like it's like
this latex sheet like a fitted bed sheet that I
put on and it's for like messy play, messy play
for you got to sponsor them. You gotta start to
(10:27):
them immediately. Partnership needs to happen.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
It's smirch sportsheets. Messheets. Okay, so it's four, but like
is it clean up easy?
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Like what what do you exactly? You know? So it
cleans up super easy. You just have to wipe it
down with like a washcloth. But like for people who
are doing like fisting with a ton of like j
loop that viscous thing loob. For people who do piss play,
vomit play or just score a ship ton. That's what
this is for.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
From you, from you have to talk about this, but continue.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
It's and it's so easy just put I put it
like literally on top of my regular sheet, so I
can just take that off afterwards, wipe it down, be
good to go. And I have people who just swept profusely.
It's like I don't want to do my sheets after
like every time.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Like and even if you're just.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Having anal sex and you just use a shit ton
of lube, you don't want to fucking wipe it on
your pillow sheets. Or I've had literally top just wipe
the lube on my ass and I'm like, okay, come on, guys,
like I like, wipe it on my thigh. I'm like,
fuck you, dude, like you like you fucking serious right now.
Like but just like even when you're using a shit
ton of lube, a silicon lube in particular, fucking fox
with the sheets and say it like, it's it's a
(11:34):
lot easier.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Zach I had this. I bought this, uh do they
cover from uh A one of these fancy Yeah we're
talking about Dovey cover. So it was fancy and uh
I ruined it with loop yeah it was. It's like
ruined it now so now it's the sex sheet. But
(11:55):
now I'm thinking, okay, I should actually get a legit
sex sheet. How much yet? And I'm gonna report back, please, patrons,
and to text You'll be like this was this was
fire and if it wasn't, I'm gonna let you know
that too that because I know you want my opinion.
Please listen, baby, you won the game. Yeah, you won.
(12:17):
You win my unconditional love, which is what everyone is
buying for a clear messy Patrons, if you have any
prompts or other games that you want to play, just
email that to tell me something messy at gmail dot com. Now,
speaking of messy, Zach, will you tell me something messy?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Sure? So I was thinking about this and I was thinking, like,
do I want to do something that's like literally messy
or figuratively messy? And I think I found one that
kind of combines a little bit of both.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Oh my god, I knew I see when I when
I when you were coming on the show. By the way,
I had asked people like who guess should be and
your name came up quite a number of times. I
was like, of course, already doing it.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Don't I feel honored.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, I was like, oh my girl, it's gonna come
with the mess, So go ahead, baby.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So I was at a Fullsome East. Okay, so like
like so fulsome fears like in San Francisco and that
people have sex on the street. There are piss pools.
You're allowed to kind of do that the fulsome East.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It's regulated, by the way, and maybe next year I really.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Do want to go fullsome East. You can't like have nudity,
you can you don't have the piss pools. You can't fuck.
And again that's like people are being like that's so lame,
and I'm like, it's literally the city of New York,
Like yeah, it's like it's in the City of New York.
It's on the street. And so I'm so my girlfriend
is a pro dom and she's like by uh usually
dates women. I often date men. And then obviously I'm
(13:48):
by two and I'm meeting her friends for the first time.
So her friends are all like bisexual or lesbian domes
as well pro doms as well, and.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
So they're all fucking of doms, a.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Gaggle of what would be like the word forget, like
a a.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Fury of doms a like, yeah, there's got to be
like a good word for it, but a h anyway,
But like, so I'm meeting my partners like friends for
the first time, yes, meeting them in this context.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
They're all gorgeous. They're all like, don't fuck around because
they're doms, and they have very good boundaries and they're
slightly intimidating. And so we're there and towards the end,
you know, we've been drinking, we have to pee. And
for a place that didn't want it was trying to
discourage public urination play, there really wasn't that many bathrooms
to use. So it's at the end and what they
(14:42):
end up doing because they all are into piss play.
They're all fucking into piss play, like obsessed with that.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
So a gaggle of doms who are all into piss play.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Yes, So one of them lays over like the subway
grates or like the drain whatever that is. And again,
you are not supposed to be doing this. Where are
we but we are in So we're just really on
the street of like New York I think it's in
like the West, like around Hell's Kitchen region, I think
it was. And you're on the street. So one of
(15:13):
them lays down on the grate or I don't know,
have great the right word on that whatever that thing is,
and they're like they all just start like pissing on her.
I like, and again, you are not supposed to be
doing this, And the joy on their faces, they are ecstatic,
they are so happy, all of them just like elevated,
(15:33):
as like these three women are pissing on them. And
and Eve, my partner was like, Zach you to P two,
like you can peel. Is this a nighttime No, this
is like maybe like five PM like like and people
are definitely like watching us do this. And I'm like
he was like, oh, like, Zach you' to P two
And I'm like, well, I was like, hey, do you
feel comfortable and she was like yeah, Sack, I love
(15:55):
you to do this. So I whip out my dick
and of course I now have like four beautiful women
staring at it. I get pa, Shai, I can't fucking
pee for the life of me, and you can tell.
And one of them just like essentially starts domming me
to pee, and I'm so fucking nervous.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
And I'm like trying to look like because I'm also so,
what is it done?
Speaker 1 (16:14):
It would just be like, Zach, you have to fucking pee.
If not, you're not a real man, like a masculating man.
Oh I am like, and I'm like, oh my god.
And Eve was like, you can do this, you can
do this. I get like a little bit of pee out,
like just enough that I was accepted by the friend group.
I'm not emasculated.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
And I that was I feel like my initiation process.
And since then her friends have liked me.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
So uh.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I always find it funny because like I date, when
I date women, I haven't dated a straight woman in
years since I've come out as by Actually I'm not him.
That was in twenty fifteen Public life. Yeah, and it's
in part because straight women won't date me, right that
that's not what it is. But I date like by women,
And it's always funny because, like I think gay men
(17:03):
often think of ourselves as being very kinky, and and
in many ways we are. We were getting fisted, we're
eating ass, we're doing piss. We'll like yeah, but we
do like a lot of like anonymity and like sex
parties and that type of stuff versus like lesbians the
kinky lesbians or by women that I know. It's like, oh,
we do blood play and put needles in each other,
like like it is a much more play.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
And what needle? What kind of need what's in the needle.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
It's no, nothing's in the needle. But it's just about
you have like a piercing fetish. Do you kind of
you can put it through the skin I've seen like
or you can pierce the skin the way that will
bleed and then they put like a cup on it,
like the cupping devices that you do on acupuncture, which
like brings and draws out the blood.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
What do you do with the blood?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Whatever the fuck you want to do that? You could
fuck with it? You put it in vials and wear
it around each other's necks.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I got it.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
I'm not a by woman, I'm not lesbian. You got
to ask that, Brandon, you wantau it's or maybe this
is just the women that I know. Obviously I'm not
trying to stereotype of groups.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
But but like, but this exists, this type of play exists,
and so making notes we need to have we need
we need to have a separate deeper dive episode. Okay,
go ahead, there's a.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I feel like in most cities, I've heard of a
vampire dyke party and this is like like a common one,
and that's one that is more blood play and needle
play focus, and I feel like that exists in most
major cities. But it's just so funny because you know,
before dating my partner, like I thought like, oh, I'm kinky,
(18:31):
like I do some crazy shit, and it's it's a
really different type of kinky than she is. And obviously
we'll be meet in the middle of but we have it.
But like she will say things that you should have
her on the show. But there's one story that I'm
just trying to say and that I'm done. One of
her favorite clients could not have meat and he's never
had meat before. So what he wanted was she jerked
(18:54):
him off with brashuto and he, I'm like, came immediately
came in the burshudo and then he and that was
the first time he ever had like meat.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Sorry, sorry, I forgot this is a this is an
audio meeting my jaw, like.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
The creativity of doms. I don't think like people like
the story she says, and it's like, fuck, I'm a
sex columnist. I hear people. I've received hundreds of messages
from people sharing their sex stories whatever it is. I
read books on this. I am educated in this, Like
this is what I do. I'm not like this guy
doesn't know his fucking shit. And I'm like and she'll
(19:32):
say the stuff and I'm like, Holy mother of God,
like I just created. There's so much to sex that like,
even as someone who's a quote unquote expert, I hate
that word. I like saying I'm a columnist and that
is what I do. I'm a writer first, you know
what I mean. But like there's still I mean, I
read your book, you know, I know some stuff. I
(19:54):
know some stuff. But yeah, the if you want to
fucking messy, messy ass episode, come on.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Wait, I have so many.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, any questions, concerns.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
I'm still on the subway, great, just a little bit,
just a little bit. I just want to know after I.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Does the actually go down into the subway on.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Like are you peeing on people below? And my other
question is, well afterwards does the person who got peed
on are y'all going home?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Shockingly, I was like, hey, I have a spare shirt, oh,
like if you want one because or whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
It was kind to have some water on you too.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
No, everyone was she did not smell. She was well
like I think we were all just very hydrate. Well, no,
we were tricky like beer. I don't know how, but
for whatever the reason, she like afterwards, she put on
my shirt and we went out dancing at a club.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
That's because it's the gaggle of lesbian dogs. Oh that's
not the magic, the magic well heaven of don.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Com of dosh.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Okay, I love that thing. You. I forgot what we're doing, messy.
There have so many questions, right, great, let's move into
so Mike actually, so I'll actually make it about sex
in general and how expansive it is. I think what's
so exciting about talking to you and about these stories
(21:22):
is realizing that there are just so many experiences that
I haven't had or like even dared to dream of.
Because my thing here with with this show is that
I'm also learning along with anything else. But it's like, oh,
I thought that, like that was pushing my boundary, but
then you're telling me, no, we're laying on a grate
and having somebody on my at five pm, and like, oh, okay,
(21:44):
I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
You can't even and like, what's funny is even I
have pretty boring sex, like like you know what I mean,
Like we enjoy it obviously, but I guess maybe boring
is not the right word. But it's it's vanilla.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Vanilla Okay, Oh I got it.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah, it's viennilla where it's just like we say I
love you and like missionary or doggie, you know what
I mean, and everyone's just like romantic. How does the
man that calls himself the boy slut and a pro
dom that. I'm like, it's because we're lazy and tired,
and that is the truth of it.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
And it is multitude, so it's in multitudes.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
But we finally did. And I've never really asked her
been dating almost a year and hooking up a little
bit longer, and like I never really asked her to
dom me because I'm like, hey, this is this is
your job, you know what I mean, And you don't
want to come home from work and do this, And
imagining if I wrote for ten hours a day and
he was like, hey, do you want to write more,
I'd be like no, fuck you, like like absolutely good. Yeah,
(22:39):
And I also like and this was maybe my own insecurity.
I was a little bit afraid of being like a
client to hers, you know what, I wanted to be special.
I'm her boyfriend, I'm her partner. She loves me, and
I didn't want her necessarily in this head space of
this is what I do with clients, and now I'm
doing this my boyfriend and being on par and I
voice this concern and she was like, Zack, I've done
(23:00):
this with past romantic partners, and like, it is different.
Trust me, it's a different mindset when I really do
love someone, and it's not gonna be a typical session
what I do with you. But we just did our
first like we you know, we got a room in
her dungeon. We rented it out, and we did our
first scene like this, which the climax of it, without
getting too much into it, was I had a butt plug,
(23:22):
a vibrating but or anal beads inside of me, and
she saran wrapped me and completely sarano so I cannot
move except for my dick. My dick is out. So
then she edges me while I'm letting it on a
massage table. And every time you're about to come, she
you know, she can feel it. And she stops, but
she has a she uses like the wand on your
friendulum or like the base of your dick, and is
(23:44):
jerking you off, and right as you're about to come,
uh yeah, she'll stop. And I wanted to like this
is something we'd like talked about. It was super hot.
I was brandon. I was so fucking nervous, like in
a way that I was not expecting. And it's like
it's like, Eve, of course I trust you, I love you,
but like I went in, I didn't know like I was,
(24:06):
and like she like literally at one point laid on
top of me and was like zack box breathing in
for fours for four out for four. When she lays
on top of me, that always calms me down right.
It's like a way to blanket. But it was such
a fun thing. But at the end, I thought she
was gonna make me come, and she's like didn't. I
was like wait, and I'm begging for her to make
me come. Like she's like, well, you want to do
an edging seat. I was like yeah, but I fucking come.
(24:27):
At the end, that's all the fucking all the fuck.
And then like literally so we go home, we have dinner,
we're out in the city, we go home, and the
moment we get in bed, I'm like, we need to
have so She's like, yeah, that was the whole point.
I want you to fucking come and me and not fucking.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Oh do this that's so romantic. How long does the
edging seed last? Uh?
Speaker 1 (24:44):
So we were in there for about so the first
of it's like me taking off her boots and kind
of worshiping her. The actual like edging portion of it
is maybe like forty minutes, and like, you know, like
she also like for me, she was kind of like
sixty nine ing where I was like eating her ass
while she was blowing me too, and I can't fucking again,
(25:05):
I'm wrapped up like a in a cocoon almost.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
It sounds like so romantic to me.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
It was cut romantic again. It was really cute. And
like I remember, when I got there, we hadn't discussed
what I call her. I'm like, do I call it?
She goes my mistress Eve is usually what it is,
and people call her mistress. I'm like, do I call you?
And I'm like yes. She says something like take off
your clothes and neatly put them in the corner. I go, yes,
and what do I call you? Mistress? And she's no,
(25:33):
that actually that that's weird for me for her okay,
because that I maybe would be. I'm like, how about
Eve and she's like, yes, just call me by my name?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Okay, Uh, that can I You've already shared so much,
but I would like you to share her Sure you down?
Because basically, so I get asked about We've had this
conversation offline, but I get asked about sex party. So
here's a submission that somebody sent in that I feel
(26:07):
like we can talk about together. That sounds cool, perfect, beautiful.
So this says I'm going to my first sex party
this weekend. I'm excited but also so nervous. Can I
please have a sex party? One oh one now? So
we won't do this? You and me, we wanna do this.
Mostly it's gonna be you, okay, but but I think
(26:28):
I'll try and and and start us off. Which is
what the fuck is a sex party? It seems so obvious,
but like, what is it?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah? I guess it's a place where people get together
and have sex.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And where does this happen?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
So a lot of them happen at like private clubs. Okay,
you know what I mean, because that's a way that
you're you know, you're legally allowed to do this, because
it is sometimes a little legal gray area. There are
some some are hosted for gay sex parties specifically. Some
are hosted like at maybe the basement of a club,
you know of a gay cruisy club that's kind of
(27:02):
known for people to hook up in, and they might
actually throw a more official party there, or you just
might go and it's not necessarily a party, but people
are having sex, right But and then also people do it,
people rent out spaces.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Okay, now I'll share that I went to my first
sex party two years ago, I think was my very
first sex party, and I was what was I feeling?
I was incredibly excited, also terribly nervous. I went with
two of my best friends and the biggest advice, which
I always tell people, was you bring your hoe bag.
(27:35):
So my best friend was, like, you need to have
your little crossbody bag that you keep on you that
as you know, your your wallet and whatever, but also
like your lube and your your wipes and like whatever
the things that you need during sex. Like that that
is something because you check your clothes.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, you often check your clothes or some you don't,
but it's like you definitely get to reveal in something
super sexy that like you're not gonna have pockets or
whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, what do you love about sex parties? Like, let's
I think that, like maybe we can talk about the specifics,
but to begin the emotional space of like what what
why a sex party? Why one might one be interested
in it? And what do you personally like get out
of a sex party?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I think there are a lot of things I get
to have a sex party. Obviously, First, let's like discuss
kind of the obvious. It's sex. Yeah, you get to
have you get to have sex with new people. It's
a space where that is allowed. Having that sexual freedom
is very cool. Uh, Fucking in front of other people
is very cool. Watching other people fuck is very cool.
You know, It's different than the type of sex I
(28:38):
have in my bedroom. There's also and what people talk
about is like the sex positive community, so they really
bring it up in a community context and so often
not always, but the people who go to sex parties
are potentially more open minded and you know, maybe on
the same mission as you brand into working to help
destigmatize shame and just so meeting other people with similar openness,
(29:03):
who with similar sex positivity when we live in this
world that is filled with sexual shame, it's like, oh,
like I feel like I found my people. Yeah, and
a lot of the my friends come from like the
sex again we call it like the sex positive community,
but people who go to sex parties, that's like what
it is, So it really is for many the community
aspect is really interesting. It's a way for me, especially
(29:27):
like of a sex party actually tomorrow night, speaking of which,
but it's a way for me, especially when I'm with
my partner and we start getting more boring or vanilla
or just like not putting in necessarily the work to
be you know, good sex takes work, especially with the
same person over time. A sex party is almost like
(29:47):
a cheat, at least for me, where just like it's
so easy to just sign up and fucking go, as
opposed to like everything else requires a little bit more
planning or effort or whatever it is. Versus this is like, Okay,
we're going to find a third together, and that's going
to be a interesting experience. I get to watch you
have sex, you get to watch me have sex, and
so especially when I have a partner, I actually like
(30:07):
to go to sex parties with them because that enhances
our sex life and our connection and something like that
and keeps things interesting and brings you know, new people
into the mix.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
In terms of the liberation or witnessing the liberation is
very I think healing, right. I think when you think
of a sex party, your immediate thought is, oh, are
these heathens? What are they diffling? But for me it's
always been like when I got there, it's like, oh,
the liberation here and the community here truly is unmatched,
(30:35):
because we do live in such a culture that really
shames us for our sexuality, especially for your folks even
more so. And so there is something about being able
to be in a space with like minded folks that
feels healing because it's like, oh, this isn't bad, this
isn't wrong. In fact, I'm literally in a space with however,
many other people who also are seeking this thing, and
(30:57):
so I find that to be fun also to your
So for me, Matthew and I don't go to sex
parties together because we, uh, there's he doesn't like to
see me with other people Like That's how our jealousy works. Yeah,
I get that, so we go to them separately, which
you know, I think also for me injects a little
something into the sex life because abs are not my
(31:18):
favorite for a lot of reasons. But being able to
be in person with people and being able to just
connect without even the needing for us to actually have sex.
They're in a space where we can but like, actually
we're here just connecting first.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
I've been to so many sex parties and not had sex. Yeah,
and I think people are potentially surprised by that. I
end up in whatever cool because some of them I
go to. I go to more bisexual sex parties. I
go to gay sex parties too, but those so they
might have I feel like the gay sex parties tend
to be more like you go, you fuck that, that
is the one thing to do, versus like straight sex
(31:52):
parties swinger sex parties by sexual ones. There might also
be dancing. There might also be oh, a hot tub
and you go and chill in that, or an outside
bar that you drink. There's kind of more to do,
but I'll be like okay by the fire pit. And
also it's being me and again like I am not
famous by any stretch of the imagination except for bisexual
(32:13):
sex partygoers in Brooklyn. That is my absolute audience, Like
that is my market. So when I go to these places,
I am recognized and people want to talk to me
about my book and do that and meet me and
do all this shit, which is fun and cool, and
I get to talk to new people who've engaged with
my work in a way and sometimes just end up
talking to people all night. I'm like, ash shit, and
(32:35):
by the end you're like, well, that's what I've done here.
I'm kind of over it.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
But like, I have a question, and this is a
little pivot. We'll come back to sex parties. But I'm
asking this because I feel like, for one, I've had
a number of specifically women who have come out to
me in their thirties and forties as bisexual, but they're
in hew to representing relationships. And so now since I
have you in your you have a partner, a female partner,
(33:02):
which is the head of representing. Is that am I
using that terminology? Okay, I'm presenting how do you? I
think a common question is how do you hold on
to your queerness or take up space in queer spaces
when you feel is because what I what I get
from from those people talking to me is that they
feel like they can't take up queer space because they're
(33:23):
not presenting as queer.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Well, this is an ongoing challenge, This is not something
you're alone with. I really not to plug my own shit.
I wrote an op ad for The New York Times
a few years ago, specifically focusing on women in you know,
straight passing relationships, bisexual women with men who do not
feel queer enough, and how to navigate those feelings. And
(33:49):
one thing I kind of spoke about is being often
I think there's a confusion where being queer, like validly queer,
equates to being more marginalized and persecuted, which is so
fucking sad to me. It's like, you're not queer if
you've been a victim of a hate crime, and obviously
you do have privilege by being a straight passing relationship.
(34:10):
When I hold hands with a boyfriend walking down the street,
I'm afraid of getting the shit kicked out of me.
I'm not afraid of that when I'm holding hands with
a woman. You know what I mean. Like, there are
some simple things.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
But like your queerness isn't rooted. The definition of your
queerness isn't rooted in your oppression or your trauma.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
It is not. And so you are equally as queer
as they are, you know what I mean? You absolutely are. Again,
you should use your privilege and your voice to help
the more marginalized within the queer community. And I'm always like,
I want you to use your fucking husband's investment, banking money,
his story, fucking bazement Bucky to fucking support other marginalized queers.
But you're equally as queer. But like, I think the
(34:47):
answer is creating more queer spaces, finding these queer spaces,
finding these bisexual spaces where you're not alone, You're not
the only you know, there are a shit ton of
by people there in these hetero passing relationshi, so you
don't feel awkward, you don't feel uncomfortable, and they are
popping up more and more, which is really cool to see.
But yeah, it's a sadness that I have that I
(35:09):
want to go to a gay club and I would
love to go with my girlfriend, and I don't. That's
the truth. That will be a night where I'll go
out with my gay friends or my by male friends
or whatever it is, because she like, when she's in
that space, the guys fucking look at her up and down,
like they can be so cunty and so mean, especially
if they see her with a hot guy and they're
jealous and they're upset by that shit, and it's like,
she doesn't want to deal with that shit. I don't
(35:31):
want her to have to deal with that shit. That's
not fun for either of us. So I think finding
your people, finding your spaces, finding your parties, finding your community.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Finding your people. Yeah, the welcoming of sometimes sometimes gays
can be so cold. The oppressed community is we just
continue to do it, but people hurt people there. It
is there. But in talking about that, I do think,
you know, especially for those people who might be coming
out or realizing there bisexually later or feeling some you know,
(36:01):
is imposter syndrome around being in a head or presenting,
I would imagine that a queer sex party or a
bisexual specific queer sex party or just party would be
a great way to exactly start to mitigate that and
start to break away the whatever shame or whatever whatever
burden you're carrying around a taking up space.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yeah, and it's still I'm gonna buy authors group with
with some of my by friends and it's actually all
women and then me, but but again, all my friends
are by women. That's literally the only people I know.
I look, I got taste. That's what it is. That's
what it is. I got taste. But still, and these
(36:43):
are people who are prominent authors in the queer community
who still have impost syndrome. And what helps is when
we talk about it. We just text each other being like, hey,
I'm feeling this, I'm feeling the struggle and like, hey,
I've been there too, So I think maybe there's some
solidarity or some comfort and knowing that you're not alone
in this and this is something that's going to be
(37:05):
on and on. But like following those bisexual meme accounts
or the accounts that really are supportive of you, and like,
so again, when you go through this alone and you
feel alone and you're like you're the only one that's
going through this. You don't know anyone you can talk
to or anyone you like you can be with, fuck
like like, yeah, you're You're gonna spiral. So it really
is finding your people in community, Following the correct social
(37:27):
media accounts that affirm you.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Do you remember a time at a sex party where
you felt truly validated in your bisexuality.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Oh god, yes, I can do promo for my book.
Oh you can't see it, boy slide, which the paperback
is now out. It is hot pay we love a
paperback moment, right, she's cute. Uh. So I through and
it's actually the last chapter of my book because I
the beginning I talked about my lack of communion. By
(37:56):
the end it's how I'm fostering community. Yes, uh, and
so the last chapters about a party I threw called
by Slot, which I remember boy Slot brand boy Slot.
But you see what I did there?
Speaker 2 (38:08):
She did it.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
She did it, and it was there was a moment
where because the thing is one thing I struggled with
with sex parties was obviously gay sex parties are all
men that the lesbians have their sex parties, and the
queer sex parties I would often see would be like
men hooking up with women and women hooking up with women,
but not actually men hooking up with men. And I
(38:32):
think there was still a little bit of a I
think men you know, a lot of by men have
been rejected by women, like like and we still have.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
This fear culturally around and just being the first to
do it, or just they weren't going to these places.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
And I remember, I'm like in the basement of the
sex party and I'm doing like a three sixty turn
and I'm just seeing like the gayest, queerest, most bisexual
like men having sex with men while their girlfriend fists
them like like you know, like the double like a
guy and a girl giving a guy a blowjob, while
so many things in so many people's asses, And it
(39:08):
was actually the most bisexual sex like I had seen
in a public space where it actually really was that,
And I started crying.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I was so happy.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
And this party was actually open to the public. It
wasn't like usually a lot of these sex clubs are
like members only, and they do that for safety and
to vet people whatever it is, and this was not.
And I had multiple men come up to me, specifically
by men who felt like they didn't have a space.
So it's a little bit different, but being like this
has been the most affirming party I've been to my life.
(39:40):
I've never been able to express myself and be myself
and be open with my wife, but desire men like
gay spaces I didn't feel included straight spaces. I was weird,
you know, whatever it was. And one thing I will say, so, yeah,
this was very affirming to me obviously, Like there is
something about when I have threeesomes with a man and
a woman, I feel very bisexual. Well you know what
I mean, Like it's like or someone non binary, whatever
(40:04):
it is. But like you know, when I'm having sex
with like a two hundred and fifty pound like muscle
bottom who's hairy, I'm not like, oh, this is bisexual.
I'm like, this is some gay as shit, I'm doing it,
you know what I mean. It doesn't like you do.
I do feel affirmed in these threesomes. One thing that
I'm working on as I'm trying to build community as well,
is how to have these bisexual spaces that are actually
not focused on sex parties, because I feel like most
(40:27):
of the buy spaces I know are sex spaces, which
are great for me personally. I fucking love that, but
obviously they're people in monogamous relationships. They don't want to
go to sex prize whatever the fuck it is. And
I'm like, why can't we do bisexual rock climbing? Bisexuals
fucking love rock climbing. They're obsessed with that shit. They
love that. I fucking hate it. I fucking hate it.
I'd like people I might be rock called me like, no,
(40:47):
my wrists are gonna hurt. I'm gonna hate this.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
My forum suck.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
I'm not strong enough. No, I don't want to be
putting a weird fucking thing where I get a wedgie
with the fucking Like, No, they love that shit, we
love that ship whatever the fuck the community. The community
loves it, and like, how do we like, I don't know,
bisexual open relationship rock climbing job. I feel like that
would be I.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Mean, wow, is that?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
I feel like that already is like a thing, they
just don't call it that. Yeah, but like, yeah, I
would love to see more buy spaces like or buy clubs,
even if it's drinking and dancing whatever it is like
that has that more.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Space for emotional connection.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah, and not just sex and for people. Yeah, And
that doesn't.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Mean like emotional connection is like I'm hoping to fall
in love with this person, but just like like a
connect connecting to people, connecting to people that are that
have a similar experience to you, which I think is
so you know what you're talking about in this Even
at the sex party, just being able to see a
representation of yourself and how you love and how you
make love or how you fuck in front of you
(41:46):
can be so healing because I think there is so
much regardless even if you're like a straight white man.
I think that all of us holds some set of
shame and pain around sex, of course, and and and
questions if if we're doing it right and what we're
and if what we like is correct, Which is why
I love the coven of doms who are like.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
I love them, we love them.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
I love them who are owning what what they love
and who are leaning into what brings them pleasure. And
I think more, I think that that should be the
goal for all of us. That is my hope for
this person who is having their first sex party. What
would you say, regardless whether it's a bisex party, queer, straight, Like,
(42:32):
what are the top three? Or I don't want to
give you a whole number, but what are your top tips?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
So I also have written like an article for Men's
Health which is literally like very in depth, a shit
ton of tips for your first time going to a
sex party. We're going to put that in the note.
We'll put that on the notes, so that's there.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
I think a few things to note, but some more
generic ones are like I think it's fun to go
with a friend or a partner for your first time
because it can be somewhat scary. It doesn't have to
be someone you're having sex with. But like I think
people there's a lot of downtime at sex parties, Like
you still have to flirt. Sex is not guaranteed. You
don't just go and be like do you want to fuck?
(43:08):
Everyone's like yes, Like yeah, put a little work into it,
so you're still like you will be alone at a
sex party, and it's like unless if you're someone who's
naturally very gregarious and sociable and can go up to people,
it's easier to just have a friend or partner or
buddy in some capacity. I think it's very important to
(43:29):
kind of like most sex parties they actually have like
a very extensive like do's and don't, Like what is
the vibe of the sex party? So like like read
that so you get a sense of like what's going on. Obviously,
I would say get dressed up, look sexy, look like
put some effort into it. You're going out, this is
an exciting thing, and you're more likely to meet people
(43:50):
that way. Yeah. One thing that's always important to know
is like learn like you should not be going to
a sex party if you do not feel comfortable saying now,
and so you need to be able to say And
it's always just been like hey, thank you, but I'm
not looking right now, or I'll come find you later,
whatever it is. There are some kind of like universal
(44:11):
phrases be like oh no, right now, I'm just chilling
with my friends, but if I change my mind, I'll
come find you. And if you get rejected, the only
response is to say awesome, thank you so much. And
that's it. Like do not be pushy, do not be aggressive,
do not do anything like that, obviously, but it's not
obvious people still do that, or people take it personally
or they kind of get like, oh sorry, I was
(44:31):
just trying to like connect and then like make you
feel guilty for saying, like, don't be that fucking person. Yeah,
So going with friends, I would obviously steer clear from
drinking or doing like drugs for your first time. That's like,
you know, I think there's when you're nervous. At least
for me, I still have the desire to be like,
let me have fifteen shots, right, It's like, don't do that.
You want to be able to consent. You want to
make sure you're able to read other people's body language.
(44:54):
That's very important. I think. It's also one thing which
is a little difference between straight and gay sex parties,
which I emphasize is knowing what the norms of consent
are in the space. So in like straight, bisexual, mixed
gender spaces, typically the type of consent is enthusiastic consent,
(45:15):
which means you know, anything that's not a fuck yes
as a fuck no, and you verbally asked, being like hey,
I'd love to kiss you, and you wait for their response, right,
and you need that verbal enthusiastic yes versus at a
lot of gay sex parties it's more opt out consent,
which is more no means no, So someone is likely
(45:37):
to touch you, you know what I mean, without honestily
asking to touch you, and if you brush their hand
away or you say no, then they'll stop. But if
you don't feel comfortable with someone touching you. And I
remember the first time I went to a gay sex
party was actually the first time I think I went
to fulsome East. I was living in Boston. I came
up for it, so this is maybe like nine years like,
of god, we're not going to any younger nine ten
(45:58):
years ago. I went there and all these guys were
grabbing me and touching me, and I told my boyfriend
for five minutes, I'm like, I need to get the
fuck out of here. I need to get the fuck
out of here right now. I'm overwhelmed. I do not
like this. Now I know that the norm is that,
and the reason why the norm is that is kind
of twofold. It's hot. It's sexy to just be able
to touch people and grabs people's asses feel comfortable. If
you're a guy in a sling blindfolded, you don't want
(46:20):
someone to come up to you being like, hey, honey,
would it be okay if I stick my dick in
your ass?
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Like?
Speaker 1 (46:24):
No, the whole point do you want to be taken?
You want the anonminimity? You want this?
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (46:30):
So now I have to be in the right headspace
to go to a gay sex party. If I'm not
in the mood to be fucking touched, then then then
where I'm going so yeah, So again if in case
this was a gay man that asked, I don't know
the gender of the person, like, okay, this is something
to be mindful of. So knowing what the norms of
consent are in that space, following that, when I say
(46:50):
bring a buddy, bring you know, your condoms in lube
and poppers or whatever it is that you need else
look sexy, you feel sexy. I feel like there's some
tips there, and again the rest.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Will be in the article. That'll be the article. Yeah,
I also think what would I add to I really,
I really thank you for differentiating the types of consent,
because that is I remember the first time I went
to a steam room, and luckily I was with a
friend of mine who gave me the rundown. But one
of the things was people will touch you, and if
you don't want that, just brush it away like that
(47:21):
was that's how this space operates, which you don't if
you've never been and no one says that to you,
then people are touching you. I can imagine that that
would be It would have been jarring. Had I not
had that piece of information, that very crucial piece of information,
I probably would have been jarred by the way that
people were touching me. But yeah, so that is a
very valuable piece of information. I also think, well, it
(47:42):
is half I don't want to say half fun, but
expectations and not putting pressure on yourself to have to
have sex, which is I just want to reiterate that, like,
go to experience, allow it to be an experience without
feeling like, oh I need to actually perform.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
I actually think you should maybe go in with your
first time thinking you're not going to have sex. I
like having that, and if you do have sex, it's
a pleasant surprise. But if you go in with the
mindset of like I just want to scope out and
see what the fuck the scene is, you're not going
to be disappointed. And I've had that even I have
to sometimes go into a sex party being like, is
this a night where I want to have sex and
if so, I need to make that happen, or is
(48:23):
this a night I just want to reconnect with friends
I haven't seen in schmooze because sometimes I go not
really have a sense and then end up smoozing and
not having sex and then feeling disappointed. I'm like, well, no,
I still had a good time. But like because I
didn't like verbalize in my head like what is it
I'm trying to do? So I think maybe having some
(48:43):
people will ask you at sex parties like what is
your intention tonight? Ye? And I think that's kind of
a great like, hey, is my goal like I want
to have a crazy kinky scene or is the goal
like I just want to watch people have sex or
meet new people or just be held whatever it is.
So I think actually potentially having somewhat of an intention
might help guide your behaviors and actions.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
I love that because you know I love an intention,
so that I love that go to your sex party
with an intention, like what define for yourself what your
intention is before you show up to this space? And
then I'll also add I did an interview with someone
and she was explaining that she went to a sex
party and I love this phrase. She said it was
my space but not my people. And I think that
(49:26):
that's okay too, Like you might go somewhere and you'd
be like, oh, like I like this vibe, but for
whatever reason, the way that the dynamics are set up,
or it might not be for me, and that's okay too,
I think, which I wish I had that at certain
like there were certain things that I've been to. I'm like,
oh I love a sex party, I love this whatever,
but this this group may not be my group to
(49:49):
do this with.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
There are especially like some of the sex parties that
are like four hundred dollars a person, and it's very
much just like these older men with these gorgeous younger women,
and like that's fine, and that's their space. That's that
I go and I'm like, okay, like not necessarily my scene.
It's just not for you. Go find another party, you
find your people.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Yeah, there you go. I love that. I'm so happy
you were here. This is such a lovely conversation.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
This was I do ten billion of these as I'm
sure you do as fucking well, and this was just like, hey,
I got to talk about different ship. Yeah, this was
far more fun than any of the rest of them.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Think educational too. So I just want to thank you
that this was because I fucking you get tired of
this talking about the same ship, you know what I mean.
So I appreciate this.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Thank you Brandon, of course, thank you for being here
and for all of your knowledge, And I'm just so
grateful for your friendship and for your for your expertise, Well,
we don't like expertise, we like what did you say?
You don't like expert I just.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
Want for your for your writing, for your writing, your writing,
your contributions speaking.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Thank you. I love you, baby, I love you to
what a conversation. I love zech so much. Listen, you
already know that we are hose here, but hose with heart.
So before we get out of here, let me speak
(51:15):
to yours and specifically, I'm gonna talk to my bisexual community,
especially for those of y'all who are in hetero presenting
relationships or straight passing relationships, or those of you who
are coming out later in your journey. I just want
you to know that you can take up space, and
(51:37):
I'm m you know, I don't know. If somebody has
a problem with it, send them my way and I'll
fight on your behalf. Because you are queer. You're queer,
Your queerness matters, your experience matters. We are not a monolith.
There's not one version of being queer that's not one
queer experience. In fact, what makes I think the queer
community such a beautiful and vibrant space is the fact
(52:00):
that our tapestry is so so I'm gonna use the
word diverse, controversial word, but it's so layered and nuanced
and has so many intricacies, and it's so colorful. And
so don't shrink yourself or hide yourself because you're afraid
of how other people are going to perceive you. Live
(52:22):
your life for you, not for the masses. Use your privilege,
of course, know what spaces you're in, of course, but
don't hide who you are. Who you are matters. And
there are people who are willing and ready and who
desire to welcome you, who desire to include you, and
(52:43):
those who don't. Don't data your people. Remember five might
be your space, not your people, you know, So don't
stress about the people who are hating. I'll let you
want to seecret. The people who are hating have their
own insecurities that they're navigating, have their own triggers that
they're navigating, have their own things that they're working through, hopefully,
(53:06):
and they might project that onto you, and you might
bring something up for them that has nothing to do
with you. And that is a lesson for anybody that
doesn't matter about your queerness. Whatever that is a lesson
for everybody. When somebody is reacting versus responding, I say react,
run to the attack. So if you ever feel like
you're on the receiving end of a reaction, remember that
it's probably not about you. It has everything to do
(53:28):
with that person. So be yourself, love yourself, be kind
to yourself, be gentle with yourself. Find your people, find
your space, find your coven of doms. Okay, honey, and
I just love you. I just want you to know
that you're left. I love you so much. All Right,
I gotta get out of here, but y'all make sure
(53:49):
you check out Zach's articles, which will be in our
show notes if you're interested. Find Zach's book at your
local bookstore. Support those local bookstores. I can't recommend Voicelet,
which is one word for one word. I can't recommend
it enough. You can also find Zach on Instagram at
Zachary Zane Underscore or on their their substack which is
(54:11):
the Voicelet zine. And if you go to our Messy
Monday's substack, Zach is recommended there, so there's a link
on the side. You can find me on Instagram as
well at branded Kyle Goodman. You can find our podcast
at tell Me Something Messy and you can join our
community on the Messy Monday's substack. When you subscribe, you'll
get weekly posts, recommendations on sex and self and so
(54:35):
much more. Also, I want to hear from you, so
send your topic ideas, your messy stories, your submissions, your
game ideas to tell Me Something Messy at gmail dot com.
You can also call us at six six nine sixty
nine Messy. That is six six nine six nine six
three seven seven nine for you host who can't spill.
(54:57):
I'm gonna say that every week, rate review and share
this podcast with all your HOE and aspiring HOE friends.
Really really helps the show out, all right, Until next time,
ask about the politics of that dick before you make
it spit, make sure they eat the kitty before they
beat the kitty, before fucation or suctation communication. And in
(55:18):
case you haven't heard it yet, today you are so
deeply loved. I love you bye. Thank you so much
for listening to tell Me Something Messy. If you all
enjoyed the show, send the episode to someone else who
might like it. Tell Me Something Messy was executive produced
by Ali Perry Gabrielle Collins and Yours Truly. Our producer
(55:39):
and editor is Vince de Johnny. For more podcasts from
iHeartRadio and the Outspoken Network, visit the iHeartRadio app or
anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.
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