Heauxperlatives: A Season Retrospective

Brandon takes a look back at this season's episodes for some top highlights from guests, Messy Mail, and lessons learned. Look out for Tell Me Something Messy Season 2 (with video) coming this fall! 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You know what, this is a safe space to talk
about relationships, love and sex. Now let me tell you
something messy. Hello, Hello, Hello, Welcome, Welcome, welcome. This is
the last episode of season one. Oh my god. Yeah,
we made it through the first season of tell Me
Something Messy, and I couldn't be I truly couldn't be

(00:28):
more proud, more excited, more grateful. So we're gonna do
a little different things today to you know, celebrate. But
before that, I just want to, you know, let's say
a few words, make a little toast. I wish I
had like a glass that I could do a little
tap tap. I'll just tap the mic. So what started

(00:50):
out as a show about sex has truly expanded. You know,
we even like expanded the opening to include relationships, love.
But here's you know, my kind of new way of
describing the show, which is talking about relationships, sex and identity.
Always reminds me that being a human is messy. So

(01:12):
I wanted to create a compassionate space where we could
feel less alone and embrace our mess together, the funny,
the vulnerable, the cringe, and even the kinky. Because every
part of who we are matters. I can't say that
enough that every part of who we are truly, truly matters.
And I'm grateful to every guest that has come on
the show for all of your submissions, for the community,

(01:33):
for sharing of yourselves, and for allowing me to hype
you up, for hyping me up, and for being part
of this house of mess together, letting me be your
messy mom. Now I'm not gonna hold you. I'm not
gonna hold you because I got some good news. I
got some good news. I got some great news. Actually, y'all,
we are picked up for a season two. Yees, can

(01:57):
we let's add some applause here? And I know that
you've been asking, because you know, we put out these
social media clips of what goes on in the records,
and you've been asking for the full video and the
full episodes, and I've wanted it to and finally we
got that approved. So season two it will be a
full video podcast and you'll be able to watch full

(02:19):
episodes on YouTube as well as of course still listening
to the audio when you are, you know, headphone zone
and you're in your car, on the subway or wherever
it is. But before we get ahead of ourselves, let's
close out this season with a little trip down memory
lane and do some messy hole perlatives. You see what
I did there? You see what I did there? Come on,

(02:40):
I gotta get some puns. Okay, now listen. I've truly
loved every single conversation. And I'm not just saying that,
like I only speak to the people that I want
to speak to. It with some advice that Casey Wilson,
who does the Bitch SESSH podcast with Danielle Schneider, she
was like, only interview the people that you want to interview,
and it has been one of the great pieces of

(03:00):
advice because every time I show up to work, I'm
just excited to be here. And the people that I
get to talk to are I mean just superstars. And
I don't mean in celebrity, because some of them celebrities,
some are experts, some are thought leaders, some are just
my best sies. But I just mean superstars as in
humans who are open hearted and vulnerable and who are

(03:25):
down to learn, and who are compassionate and kind, and
to be around that energy, baby is just such a gift.
So I'm really grateful now I know that I have
personally grown from every single guest that has sat with me,
and the show is just a gift that keeps on giving.
And as much as I wish I could mention every
guest and moment, Babe, we would be here for longer

(03:48):
than my brain has capacity for. Girl, I'm trying to
get on this hiatus, Honey, I'm trying to get on
this hiatus. So in each purlative category, I'll share my
top three moments and give you my messy takes on them, because,
as you know, from mild to wild, us messy hoes
do have the range. But before we get our last

(04:08):
messy keikey of the season started, let us begin with
our hell manifest out. Now by this point, I know
y'all know it, so say it with me aloud or
in your head. Grant me the serenity to unpack my shame,
the courage to heal, the wisdom to know that sex
is not about penetration, the audacity to advocate for my

(04:30):
pleasure and boundaries, the strength to not call my ex
that fuck boy, fuck girl, or fuck they, for it
is better to masturbate by myself in peace than to
let some play in my motherfucking face. Let the whole
unity say ho helujah. Okay. So our first purlative category

(04:53):
is top three lube breakers. Now, you know, every episode
or most episodes, we start with a little game. It's
either fuck mary, block or smash or pass or this
or that or lick or ick is the most recent
one that we did. And so these are my top three.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Starting with Kid Fury. We talked to Kid Fury about
the smasher pass was I think socks on, uh, socks
on your feet? And here's what Kid said.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
On my feet smash okay, because I like my feet
to be more okay, on his feet, you want it off.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
You want that naked.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
You need to be able to hold on. You know
what I'm saying. I have wood floors. You need to
be able to I don't want you to slipping inside
of like groovy socks. Oh like them, the bottom of them.
The sky's on. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
So as long as you are able to complete our
mission together then and that's period, then you don't care
however you I I think socks on is a hot aesthetic,
but by the end of sex, when it's having to come,
I want socks off, like I want to feel.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
I stand by that. I think that socks on is
a hot aesthetic and some people really can't come without
socks on their feet. It keeps you know, they want
to keep the feet warm, but I prefer my socks off. Honestly,
I had like this, this might be to TMI, but whatever,
what is TMI on this show? I should have called
the show tam I honestly, but I have a cut

(06:41):
on my foot, so I haven't. It's been healing, and
so I keep my socks on during sex. I don't
want my partner to actually accidentally touch it, but I
miss Oh my god, there's nothing like feet touching feet,
and some of y'all are really grossed out my feet.
Please know that the feet are clean because I've also
I also discovered while doing this podcast. I love I

(07:05):
love feet. I love my mom face on my chest
to love my mouth. It's crazy, it's not crazy, it's beautiful.
But I know for some people y'all be thinking that
feet are are have been in the shoes all day.
I don't want I don't want your nasty, smelling feet.
I want your clean, pedicured feet. Know what I'm saying.
So anyways, uh okay. The next one was Alex Hall

(07:28):
I believe we said. I think it was a smasher
pass or a fuck Mary block, but it was about
getting double penetrated. And here's what Alex had to say
about that.

Speaker 5 (07:36):
Anytime I've ever had a three way before, I was like, oh,
this was fine, but you know, it would have made
it more fun if one of you wasn't here.

Speaker 6 (07:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
My husband is like that, Yeah, I'm like, if one
of you would just leave. Yeah, he doesn't like groups.
He likes a one on one.

Speaker 5 (07:48):
Situation that I think double penetration is something that I'm
not what if like one of them left after the
double penetration, they were just there for the double pen
and then they were yes, and if they loaded the
dishwasher on the way out, if they if they like
did a small chore on their way out, Oh my god,

(08:11):
that is my new qualifications.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Reginder hook ups. Please do a small chore on your
way Could you imp the dice that is on your
way out? Double penetrate me? And then do you like
just WINDX the windows tower. I'm not asked right on
your way out to a small chore. And also I

(08:34):
love that Alex was like, if you if you can
double penetrate and then they leave one of them leaves.
Then it's a vibe. I think I've told you all
about my my DP story, but recently did I tell
you the second time I tried to get deepeed. I
think it was when Taylor Stilson was on. We might
have talked about it, because you know, Taylor Stilson was
on the show, and we talked about his uh the

(08:54):
Brazilian bath House with no Loop. But I tried to
get deep and one of the I mean, the two
dicks were oh my god. Sometimes I still get bashfall.
It's not wild. Sometimes I still blush a little bit.
The two dicks were quite large, quite girthy, quite big,

(09:15):
and so one got in and then you know, we
tried to get that second one. The other one was
like a fuck, like it was a giants dick, Like
what the fuck? Like fucking Goliath. We were going to
call that Goliath. So I was trying to get Goliath
in and it just wasn't working. And my friend, my
friend with the other dick, was like, I don't know
if I should be jealous or mad because my was

(09:37):
too tight. But then I learned from Taylor Stilson that
if you push out and I think it opens your
sphincter up or something like that. Look at educational podcast loves.
It's an educational podcast. But I do agree regardless of
whether you want a DP or not. Which dp's are
not my like my favorite, Like they're hot in theory,
but like I would much rather just one dick at

(09:58):
a time. But if we are are going to DP,
when you leave, my love, do a small chore. Okay,
please wipe that table down, you know, get the little
wind dex, you wipe the window, do a little swift
on the floor, something something, Okay, Okay. This next one,
which is actually I think was one of the earliest
episodes we recorded. It might have been like the second

(10:20):
or third episode that we recorded with my big mouth
coworker Shantira Jackson and uh uh sex therapist Vanessa Marin
who wrote the book Sex Talks. But we played uh
I think Mary Block with Shantira and she had this
to say about titties. I'm gonna marry tits.

Speaker 6 (10:44):
I think, first of all, is the funniest word on
the titties is the funniest word.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
It don't matter what you're talking about.

Speaker 6 (10:52):
Oh my god, you that And then it's funny if
you say titties, no matter what happened, it's funny.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Number one word all time.

Speaker 6 (11:02):
I want you to be sad, be sad.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
I've talked about this with my friends.

Speaker 6 (11:06):
If you're sad, I want you to just be crying,
just crying, and I just want you to go titty
And I bet you stop crying for one second. Titty
number one, baby, marry the word titty, Marry all titties.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Oh my god, this was the first time that I
truly lost my breath on this show. Like I it
was a hard recovery, Like was so passionate about them titties.
I was like t t GT but like, it really
knocked me the fuck out. I was crying. Vincent, a

(11:41):
producer who was on the line as well, was We
were just screaming at this. You know what you're staying
on business titties And I still agree Titti's is it.
I love titties, Marry titties, fuck titties all day with titties, very,
very period. So this is are our top three Lube

(12:01):
top three messy stories. Love Now you know we love
him Asi's story here and we've had and heard so
many but a few of them still wake me up
in the middle of the night. Still I got like
dad tiny Okay. The first up is from my convot
with Griffin Matthews from our episode am I the Drama

(12:26):
A listen.

Speaker 7 (12:27):
Dave went to a lunch, a lunch that's important. Dave
went to a lunch. It's daytime, okay, great. Dave went
to a lunch to meet his friend's new boyfriend. So
Dave went to the bathroom and at the top of
the lunch and met a very beautiful Latin man, which
I understand. They're beautiful course, and it was like a one,

(12:51):
one room bathroom. So I met the guy. He was
coming out of ath room. Dave was going, yeah, it's like,
you know, a restaurant. It's like a highbrow restaurant. And
Dave they exchanged numbers.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
And I thought that was okay.

Speaker 7 (13:03):
Between the bathroom, Yeah, there were ones coming in one's
going out, and they were like Hi, hi, yay, which
I love.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
I love that. I'm not I'm not I have you never.

Speaker 7 (13:14):
Girl, It's literally never happened to me.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
That's so sexy though, So I was happy for.

Speaker 7 (13:19):
Dave and then.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Dave.

Speaker 7 (13:24):
Dave went to the bathroom came out and sat down
for the lunch, and somewhere in the middle of lunch,
Dave gets a text, and the text is from The
Lovely Latin Mask. It was a singular text, one line,
come to the bathroom. I want to know how your
whole smells.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready.

Speaker 7 (13:45):
Dave and all of his adventure got up and went
back to the bathroom and let that man smell his hole.
So they go in there and they do their thing,
and then it gets better. Then the guy says, today,
take off your underwear and give it to me.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Oh my god, I want this to happen to me.

Speaker 7 (14:07):
I don't want this. And what does Dave do?

Speaker 1 (14:12):
He has to get off He took his under he
asked sweetly. Yes, it gets better, Oh my god.

Speaker 7 (14:21):
So Dave starts washing his hands and he turns around
and the guy is in the corner going like this,
oh oh oh, and all of a sudden, it's a
horror film.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
I just I don't know why. I still think about
the twists and the turns of that story. It went
from hot to very scarey or creepy. But you know,
I do y'all smell underwear. Do y'all like to smell
your partner's underwear? I had once had a partner I
had left, Like I left my thong at a partner's

(14:57):
house and they sent me a photo with that thong
wearing it on their face. And I thought it was
very hot and very sweet, very romantic. I don't I love.
We've talked about this, like the difference between musk and must, right,
Like musk that's like your natural your natural smell, and
must is bitch. We gotta clean, we need to deep cleanness. Yeah,

(15:17):
I love musk. I love, I love, I love. I
love a little armpit musk. I love a little puw musk.
So I love a little underwear musk too. You know
what I'm saying, Like I don't want you to have
been those underwears for days, but like you know, if
if you took a shower this morning and put the
underwear on, and now it's the afternoon, put it in
my face and I and and I mean that, I

(15:40):
mean that I do want to smell it now. I
think and I stand by this. I think that this
this gentleman who met Dave should have waited for Dave
to leave the bathroom before he inhale, because we just met.
You know what I'm saying, I wouldn't. I wouldn't do
it if we just met, or I might tell you
that I'm about to do that. I don't know. That's

(16:01):
my take, that's my hot take, is that you know,
I think I think smelling somebody's underwear in front of them,
maybe not for the first time unless you've talked about
in both of that both of your kinks. But but
also now, wait, I might take that back because if
I've messaged you and told you to come to the
bathroom because I want to smell you or taste you,
then I'm assuming you a little bit of a freak too,

(16:24):
So I shouldn't have really, So maybe maybe Dave was wrong.
I don't know. I don't know. What do you think?
Next one is from one of my favorite queens to
ever be disqualified from RuPaul's drag race. Also just one
of the kindest humans and like literally one of the

(16:48):
funniest people. One of the funniest people. Willem tells us
about a little play session. Take a listen.

Speaker 8 (16:57):
My favorite messy story is because this happens to everybody.
Everybody poops it was this sexy time and like there
were like more than three, lesson six people in the
room and someone was like, oh, uh uh oh, sorry,
turn on the lights. I was like what. I was like, no,
I'm star bottom. This doesn't happen to me. No, no, no, no no,
And they're like, oh, it's just a little bit of poop.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
I was like no, but he was like no.

Speaker 8 (17:18):
I was like, yeah, I keep going on, I'm.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
Gonna turn these lights on. To turn the lights on.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
It's blood. I was like, I told you, I told you.

Speaker 8 (17:30):
Oh, y'all should have gone one at a time, Like
I told you kept the fingers out and then you
would have broken your toy.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
We've been able to play all night.

Speaker 4 (17:36):
Now I got a blow bang yard.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, that is the worst.

Speaker 4 (17:42):
Right in the crate barrel.

Speaker 8 (17:44):
Baby.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Willem first of all, told you I like want that
tattooed the way that Willim said, told you like I
fell out as you if you've watched the clip online,
I fall out of my chair so funny. Also, Willem
was like came in drag looking stunning at like what
was it eleven am or twelve noon in the on

(18:06):
Monday afternoon. But that is truly one of my favorite stories.
I also love the term I'm a starbottom because tee
know who you are, baby acclaimant, I own it. Okay,
but that told you really took me out. Told you
wasn't just a little bit of blow, which is why
come on, you gotta take care of everybody's holes. Okay,
So for the for the excited tops, you know, sometimes

(18:28):
you gotta slow down a little bit. You gotta, you gotta,
that's the thing. Maybe some tops be putting it in
and want to be like by baby, we have to
work our way up. Hookups do not need to last
ten minutes like we can fuck for like an hour
or two hours. We can fuck for I mean some
of y'all, I'm sure just got stressed by me saying
two hours, but you can at the very least like,

(18:50):
let's say, thirty forty minutes, at the very least. See
for me, it takes me a while to douche, which
let's not talk about it, but it takes me a
little bit to clear out. And so I don't want
the sex that I'm having if I'm bottoming to be
shorter than the time it took me to do. Absolutely not,
baby like and also, by the way, sex is not
just about penetration, so there are many things that we
can do ahead of time. But I do think sometimes

(19:11):
tops we just wanted to put that dick in and
be like bye blah. It's like, no, I'm I'm I
am your toy, but I'm not a toy, you know
what I'm saying. So you do have to like open
me up a little bit. You gotta eat it, you
gotta play with it, you gotta ease it in, you
gotta lub it out. And then there's a point once
we open it, you could go to town. But if
you slot into Sue too fast, blood Honey told you. Okay, finally, uh,

(19:40):
because they're still in our top three message story. So uh,
I guess, I guess. I guess I'm doing it in
order Bronze, silver, Gold. I don't know. It doesn't fuck
about here. No one's getting everyone wins my unconditional love
per usual. Okay, but the story that went viral and
made me go, oh, we have a shell baby also

(20:00):
from roof Fall's drag Race, but also her own superstar.
Here's Katya and only have one question, love is it Pristine?

Speaker 9 (20:10):
I also got into the habit of wearing butt plugs
at the gym. Tell me about this, and I also
work out with butt plugs in quite a bit because
like me, tell me everything. Well, it's just a first
it feels good, yes, and then second is like my
little secret, and then the third it's it's interesting because
I do a lot of yoga shit and like core
conditioning and like handstands. It it helps to keep the

(20:32):
pelvic floor engaged and it's and it provides like a
little challenge to the center of gravity, like when we
were floating up and down to handstand. Yeah, how Web
tell me you gotta have a nice strong panny on
because sometimes well, well I was went to my drag studio,

(20:52):
my assistant was there. I wasn't paying attention. I had
some boxer shorts on. You better believe that thing just
fell out my ass, through my pant leg and onto
the floor. And I was like, no, this is not
the life that I deserve to be living, and this
is not the thing that she deserves to see. But
you know, water under the.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
What's the moment after So it comes out of your pants,
it hits the.

Speaker 9 (21:15):
Floor, I grab it, I grab it real quick, just
to make sure, I don't want to. I don't know
if it's pristine, so I'm not giving anybody the chance.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
To just like I grab it.

Speaker 9 (21:27):
I go to the bathroom, It's like, what was that?

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Oh, I don't know by b may be this video
was so viral that I went into the spot that
I go to get juice sometimes when Green Juices, and
then the girl behind the counter was like, I just
saw you. I just I just saw that video. I

(21:51):
was like, that video went everywhere, that clip went everywhere.
It is truly one of the most iconic messy stories
I have ever heard, and I've heard a lot of them,
you know, this December will be five years of Messy Mondays.
We started in December of twenty twenty, so we will
be five years old. And so I've heard a lot

(22:15):
of messy stories, and that is truly one of the
most iconic.

Speaker 10 (22:18):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Pristie Yo? The snorting, I couldn't help it. I was like,
interview's over, this is it, this is done. The fact
that we still had to keep talking. But Katya was
also one of my faves. Just sweet, funny. I love
this is what I love about, you know, especially the
funny dolls that come on our show, like this is
their gig. Comedians and drag queens are often incredibly funny.

(22:43):
Is that they're so sharp and witty, and I love
sometimes like with Willim, I like if you if you,
well you can't because it's not the whole video isn't available,
but the whole Katya video is available on YouTube. But
with Willim, like there were moments where I was just
like staring, like he didn't know how to like respond
because I was just like I just so entertained and enthralled.

(23:06):
And I just love watching those quick brains work. I
just I'm such a I'm such a fan of really
really funny people. So anyways, those are my top three
messy stories. Are there messy stories that you remember that
were some of your faves? I have a couple. There
are some honorable mentions, for sure, Mitra Juhari, who is

(23:28):
my other big mouth with my big mouth work wife.
So Shanterira is my big mouth worked sister. Mitra is
my big mouth work wife. And Mitra told this story
about giving in and I think middle school or something,
this boy that she liked inviting him over to give
my haircut and she did not to cut hair. He

(23:48):
also didn't need a haircut, but they clearly liked each other,
and he snuck over at night through like our window,
and she gave him my haircut, and then he had
to go home. Like I just I don't know. I love.
We all have our messy stories, and again they range
from mild to motherfucking wild. But anyways, I love I
love messy stories. They are my favorite. Okay, Well, the

(24:09):
core of the show is you, the messy patrons, the
messy patron hoes. So when I you know, obviously like
I just sold you. December, we're celebrating five years of
messy Mondays and this kind of messy verse, this house
of mess that we've we've built together. When I when
I set out to do this podcast, I knew that

(24:30):
the most important thing was to involve y'all's messy hofessions
and questions. So here are my top three messy male moments,
starting with I'm gonna just go right into it, which
was anal botox. We were just talking about Mitra, my
my work wife from Big Mouth. I had her on

(24:51):
the show and we interviewed doctor Evan Goldstein about anal
botox because somebody had asked about it, and I was like,
y'all can put botox in your ass? This sounds and
so doctor from Goldstein was explaining that there are different
types of buttles. Just listen to the clip.

Speaker 11 (25:06):
There are three types of assholes in the world, okay,
and how do we know this? So in my office
for the last fifteen years, we've been doing testing to
see are there different groups of people, people that can
totally take anything versus people that can't. And there's three groups.
The first group is I can relax my ass, I

(25:28):
can take whatever, and I'm blessed.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Hashtag bless medically blessed. Ah baby. If you watch the clip,
Miture literally pushes their tear back and leans forward because
we're like anal botox tell us about it. Also hashtag
blessed baby, medically blessed. But that was really that was actually,

(25:57):
you know, all the jokes aside, it was really illuminating
to learn about that there are these three types of holes,
and that some people get ana botox not even for sex,
but to help them poop better. And also, when I
have heard tops this, that's why I'm saying this show.
I love fucking doing this show because you know, I
come in with some of my own preconceptions, and those

(26:19):
get to evolve and shift all the time. And so
I used to be like guys who are total tops,
like what the fuck like put something in you? But honey,
like what are you talking about, but not realizing that
maybe they medically can't, like maybe your butthole is literally
too tight for anything to go up in there. So this,
this conversation of Ana Bottex, actually actually built and expanded

(26:44):
my empathy. So uh, there we go, So it deserves
a spot in our top three. The next one is
from my conversation with Er fight Master, who, let me
say this, I love Er if they asked to run

(27:05):
away together? Baby out would you know? Heartbeat the way
when my master looks at me, I get so tingly.
I guess so I guess so tingly and speeches I
I'm in love with the R five Master. Let's I'll
just say it. I'm in love with R five Master.
And having the conversation that we did, which we talked

(27:28):
about so many things, just made me fall in love
even more, like just come on, take me somewhere, Let's
go somewhere together. But there was a submission about, well,
let's just play it This first one says squirtsicles a
new term. I have coined a summer or all seasons
cold snack. Buckle up, babe, I squirt into a bowl

(27:49):
with the help of a partner, pour my juices into
popsicle mold, and make a kinky cold snack. The swartzicles.

Speaker 12 (27:57):
Okay, oh my god, the squortsicle is really making this
a term is used for playing in holes, eating and
all the pleasures.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Okay, how are you feeling? Would you have a sportsicle?
Would you make a sport school? And would you eat
a sportsicol? Very two different things? You are stressed?

Speaker 4 (28:19):
Well, I'm really trying to drop in.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Yeah, try to get grounded in this, trying to lean in.

Speaker 4 (28:26):
I will say I would not make one myself.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Uh huh? Would you help somebody make one?

Speaker 4 (28:32):
If it? I guess. But the truth is, most of
the time, if it really turns you on, it will
start to turn me on.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
I'm the same way. I'm turned on by my partner's pleasure.

Speaker 4 (28:40):
And if this was really something that they wanted to do,
then I.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Would do it. Yeah, but for yourself, Like, I don't
know if I could like come into.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
A popsicle, I'm not gonna be doing that.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Clear me, I will be doing that, but I love
you and I will I would be eating that. You
would eat it.

Speaker 4 (28:58):
I would eat it if because if somebody else and I.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
My partners comes to cale I swallow your love, might
as well put it in a front sheet with some fruit.

Speaker 4 (29:08):
That's how I feel. I identify very strongly as the
liquid King of the Midwest.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
That's right. I'm in love with the liquid King of
the Midwest. As we all know. Okay, I I still
think about these sportsicles. Not that I want one, we
want to do it, but just it is one of
those submissions, one of those professions that really stays with you.
You know what I'm saying, Like you just be just
be making some chicken, you know, meal prepping and be

(29:36):
like squortzicles. You know what I'm saying. I'd be at
the gym lift a little bit like sportsicles, watching Love
Island sportsicles. It just you're like whatever, it just comes
up in my spirit from time to time. I think
I've mentioned on the show several times because I'm like,
that is a it's genius. It's kinky, it's wild and

(29:58):
weird and funny and fun I don't know, but you know,
if y'all, if y'all have tried it, you know what
one of the it's one of the wildest messy maal
veessions that it reminds me of the time we never
I don't know if we ever talked about it on
the show, but I definitely got it on Instagram, where
I wish I could find the original submission. But basically
I did it.

Speaker 10 (30:18):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
I think I did, like a messy Olympics, and it
was like, tell me the messiest thing ever and somebody
will win, I think merch or something. And the winner
was somebody said that when their grandmother passed, they found
an envelope with her pubes and like a like a
little black book or like a list of her roster. Essentially, No,

(30:41):
but maybe I can't. I can't remember any more details
than that. I can't tell you where like how they
knew it was grandma's pubs, how they knew it was
roster if they call somebody in that low black I
don't know. But could you imagine you cleaning your grandmother's
you know, bedroom, and then you find an envelope just
fill with pew. That was pretty, that was messy, so pew,

(31:04):
so Grandma's envelope of pubs and scortsicles. Those are up
in the Messy Mail Hall of Fame. Oh okay, well
this one was a little more of a more vulnerable
messy male. One of the first I think the first
episode that I recorded. I don't know if it was
the first episode that came out, but the first episode
I recorded was with one of my besties, Chelsea Gentry,

(31:26):
and we were asked a question about divorce and you know,
how to kind of navigate that, and here's what Chelsea said, So,
then how do you take care? Because I think that's
a question that comes up for anyone doing navigating a
breakup or a divorce, like how do you take care
of yourself? Or how do you begin to first of.

Speaker 13 (31:48):
All, learn to ask for help. I'm gonna say it again,
ye say please learn practice asking for help, and practice
asking for help with the same amount of compassion that
you give help to other people.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Okay, that gave me Chells because I think that we
forget I was writing about this, that your besties and
the people in your life aren't just for brunch tables
and dance floors, yes, right, like that they are actually
their most important function is for these moments, for these

(32:29):
moments when you are at your bottom or whatever that is,
like that is of all moments when you want to
have those people around and you want to be able
to reach out to them and to know that they're
going to be as compassionate to you as you would
be to them if the tables were turned, Like I

(32:52):
have no doubt in my mind that if the tables
were turned, that you would be nothing but an open
an open heart and open door, an open spirit for me.
So why would I not be that for you or
whatever that is for? Like, why would your friends not
be that for you? And I think we sometimes convince
ourselves that we're a burden. I remember when I was

(33:14):
getting out of a in my twenties. It was an
emotionally abusive relationship and I managed to get myself out
of it after a couple of years, and but I
no one knew, Like I wasn't talking to anybody about this.
I lived with this person. It was, you know whatever.
And I went to dinner with my godfather and I
told him about it, and he was like, well, where

(33:36):
are your friends? And he told your friends? And I
said no, like, I haven't said anything I just like,
don't want to be a burden. And he said that's manipulation,
which is a very big word. And I was like,
what are you talking about. I thought we were just
having some steak and some fries and we were going
to have and you're talking to me crazy, like, let's

(34:00):
are double back say to you? He said, you are
being manipulative because if your friends can come to you,
if you are available for your friends for all of
their highs and lows, but then you will not code
to them when you are at your low, then there's
a manipulation happening. Whether it's conscious or not, there is
a an imbalance of power.

Speaker 13 (34:22):
I was met with a life experience that felt overwhelming. Yeah,
and I had to yeah, ask for support, ask for support,
and be willing to receive support and be able and
be willing to like practice, be the vulnerable, courageous act

(34:46):
of saying, hey, this thing is really hard. H.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
I remember when Chelsea said that, And it's so simple.
You know, sometimes the things that have been incredibly impactful
and long lasting on the show have been the most
simple of say months and the ask for help, you know,
I don't know if you And for various reasons. You know,
whether it's womanhood, whether it's queer hood, whether it's you

(35:11):
know you're the eldest you know child in your family,
your first generation. There's so many reasons why we as
individuals don't ask for help and don't ask for support,
and yet we'll also show up for everyone. There's a
willingness to take on that burden, there's a or there's

(35:32):
a fear of being a burden. And so the reminder
to ask for help that in your darkest moments, that
when when life is whooping your ass, do you remember
that shirt that I got from Chloe Bailey's line, which
that if life is beating your ass, archip for sure, Archip,
but in your arching police also ask for help. I

(35:54):
was just talking to a friend today at lunch about
that about how I I'm bad at asking for help
in those moments. So I've worked on pushing myself in
moments of clarity, when I anticipate that the storm is coming,
or when there's a clear you know, a ray of
sunlight that shoots through the storm, to just like text

(36:16):
my best ye or to text you know, my husband,
or to text my partners and be like, hey, just
so you know I'm going through X, Y and Z.
Check on me, like, just take the ego out of
it and ask for the help and then again be
open to receiving it. It's a it's a muscle to build.
It's not easy. But I have an honorable mention, an

(36:36):
honorable mention submission because you know, I'm doing the top three.
But I thought that this moment was also really really
lovely and was also around breakups. So doctor Raquel Martin
was on the show and somebody asked about, you know,
two x's were essentially spinning the block and should they
go back to them? And Doctor Raquela had an incredible response,

(36:59):
So check it out.

Speaker 10 (37:00):
And sometimes people think, because oh I love them, that
means I'm meant to be with them. It doesn't mean
that you could love them both. And then after doing
this little exercise thinking about what version of myself is
best with them, neither one. They both bring out different
inklings of me that aren't the best. I think partners
are meant to help you evolve. Neither one of them
would contribute to my evolution. I love them, but I
also have to deal with like not being with them.

(37:20):
You can grieve right decisions too. You can have a
decision that was the best for you and still grieve
the fact that you had to make that right. But
it's also not your job to create like a relationship
with a person who you wholeheartedly know it's not there,
right because don't waste your present on a future that
may never come. Don't fall in love with potential because
they may never be that person. The only person who
you can control, like have agency over, is you. So

(37:42):
you can also grieve like, man, I love them, both,
both of them are not what's best for me. Grieve
that That's okay. You can grieve accurate decisions too, There's
nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Bars, I have nothing to add. Bars fucking printing put
it everywhere, Oh my god, and I stand by that.
Those are bars. I think that's so important to remember
that we can grieve the right decisions, the correct decisions.
Decisions that are best for us don't necessarily always feel good, then,

(38:15):
you know. I think in the self help space and
the self care self love space, we think that it
should always be you know, bathtubs and bubbles and you know,
sipping champagne on the top of the Eiffel Tower and
clinking glasses with our bestieson laughing and right like and yes,
yes that can be part of your self care if

(38:36):
you need that vacation. But sometimes self care and self
love is placing a boundary or really difficult and hard
boundary and saying, oh, this is not for me, This
relationship is no longer for me, This person is not
where I need to be, even though I might want to,
even though I want to be there. You know, I
always think about when I'm making those decisions, if I

(38:58):
were my own parent, what advice would I give to myself?
Which I know I've mentioned on the show is a
quote from my mentor Ellen Barbera, one of my writing mentors,
who told me that when I was first became estranged
from my mom, and this idea that you know, there's
a little you that still exists, write that little version

(39:18):
of those little versions of you, all the versions of
you still exist inside of you, but you might have
to take the reins and be the adult. And so
if you know the present version of you is like
I want to be with that toxic X or whatever,
can the parent version of you, the one who is

(39:39):
you know, guardian of little you, come in and say
what's best here. I know it's not gonna always be fun,
but like what is actually best for you? And then
can you do that? But then also if you do
the hard thing, or when you do the hard thing
that is ultimately best for yourself, giving yourself the space
to grieve it, it still matters, Still matters, y'all know.

(40:07):
I love when our guests stand on business because when
they do, they always impart new perspectives and life hecks.
And so here are my top three. I said, what
a mess, I said moments, And I'm starting with Shaheem maclaurin,
which y'all know I'm obsessed with them. They are a therapist,
an influencer. They specialize in EMDR. And we did this

(40:28):
really you know, one of the and I love when
I get to do episodes that are for me, that
I get to be curious about and a little bit
subversive and like you know, get to have like imperfect
conversations around really taboo thing. So we we had this
conversation about cheating. The episode title is called never Cheated
On a Therapist. But I asked him could you overcome?

(40:51):
Could we overcome? Can people overcome cheating? And so here
is Shahim's answer.

Speaker 14 (40:59):
Life taught me a lot about this question. Okay, I
can give you the therapeutic answer, or I can give
you my answer.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
She's a therat I've learned. Here's what I want. I
want the therapist answer first, and then I want your answer.

Speaker 14 (41:13):
Okay. So the therapist answer is that conflict can be
overcame in any connection. It will take a lot of
dedication and a lot of rebuilding of trust, which is possible.
It just takes two people who are dedicated to doing that.
The person who committed the violation of trust, they will
have to go about a lot of changes to re

(41:35):
earn that trust. And you, the person who is violated,
will have to go about a lot of changes to
open yourself back up to trusting that person. That is
a therapist answer.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Wow, that was a very great therapist answer. Okay, and
now what's your answer? Hell?

Speaker 14 (41:49):
Fuck?

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Oh my god.

Speaker 14 (41:56):
I will say why is it?

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Hell?

Speaker 14 (41:57):
No, tell me from my experience, and I will say
from my personal experience, like sometimes sometimes because I'm not
gonna make too proud of us, yes, sweeping statement, sometimes
you give people permission to mistreat you when they get
away with it.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
The first time I died when they said, hell bug
as no, because Tea. You know, listen, everybody does what
they got to do, you know, and you are in
your own relationship and you know, you know, if your
partner has taken accountability and it's willing to atone Cheating happens, right,
And I the reason I wanted to have this conversation
is because it happens, and we tend to dispose of

(42:34):
people that we label cheaters as opposed to it being
just an action that happened. Now, some people they don't
give a fuck and they are they are cheaters, and
that's they might get off on cheating. And so we're
not talking about those people, talk about people who you
know are hurt, right, and we all can relate to
being hurt. Now, it doesn't mean that you have to
forgive them, by the way, like if you've been cheated on,

(42:56):
you get to draw that line in the sand. But
I think I wanted to create space for us to
remember the humanity of a person who who cheated. And
if you listen to the episode, you know, both Shahim
and I admit to times where we cheated and and

(43:16):
those times were warranted, well warrant to the right word
you know, I think I exploited expressed for me. It
was around I was in an emotionally abusive relationship and
I didn't know how to get out of it, and
so I cheated. I never told that partner, but I
knew I'm a terrible liar. Oh my god, I'm awful

(43:36):
out lying. My husband can tell you, I'm just like
the worst liar, So I don't do it. So if
I if I, if I, if I have to hold in
a lie, I will not survive. So I knew that
I would. I would have to it would it would
be my exit, like I would have to make myself
exit or I would I would have to tell my partner,
and I didn't want to to hurt him, So that
was like my reason. But I think I carried around that.

(43:57):
I carried on that shame so much so that I
didn't tell I haven't. The first person I told that
too was my husband, and I told him like a
year or two ago, and the second time I talked
about it was on the pot, like I literally didn't
tell any bestities. I never told him because we're so
much shame and so much guilt as opposed to understand
that there are layers to this. There are nuances to

(44:17):
why people have transgressions. Again, you are absolutely valid if
you've been cheated on, to hold a boundary. And also
we can acknowledge that the person who cheated it it there.
There's a really big likelihood that it's deeper than just
I cheat it, that that was the The cheating was
the result of things that weren't done, that weren't healed.

(44:43):
And if you've been cheated on, it is not responsibility
to help them heal that. I can't say that enough,
like you get to whatever. But also if you stay
and you give a second chance, like that's also okay.
You know you're in the situation, you understand your partner,
and what is a pattern versus what is a mistake.
If cheating is a pattern, get the fuco out of here.

(45:05):
But if it's a mistake, we're all human, we all
make mistakes. And if you're gonna be in a you know,
if the goal is to be in a ten, twenty,
thirty forty year relationship with somebody, whether that it's marriage
or you know, no marriage would polyquell whatever it is.
If the goal is to be with a partner for
even like a year, they are going to be mistakes,

(45:27):
and so they're going to be ruptures, and so the
most important thing is how do we repair the next
I said, what the mess I said is from Karamo.
Caroamo came on the show and said a lot of
I mean, Croma was dropping so many gems. As we
talked about you know who taught him about sex, We

(45:49):
talked about intimacy between men. But this thing he said
about closure by b take a listen. Let me tell
you what I learned very early on. An action can
be closure for me.

Speaker 5 (46:02):
I don't need to have forty conversations with you to
get my closure.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Come on, and that takes time for you to understand that.
Like your response in this moment gives me the closure
I need to know. This is never gonna work. You
can just leave people where they are. Where they are,
You can say I feel like there's these means are
like just say lol. Like the girls feel like I
need to call you, I need conversation. Your action just

(46:28):
gave me the closure. I absolutely thank you. And even
if you had that conversation, the frustration you might come
up against is that person is what I always say,
reacting versus responding. So when somebody's reacting an attack, it
has nothing to do with you. It's the baggage that
they've brought and it's being projected onto you. So you're
never gonna get the clear answer that you want because

(46:48):
it has nothing to do with nothing. Oh that's a
fucking word. Maybe that's a praise step. That's a praise step.
You know, we don't, you know, cloth. I think it's
a growing up because of fucking TV and movies. You know,
you're always looking for that last conversation, for things to
you know, things to make sense. And it's like I learned,

(47:09):
I had to learn through trial and error that that
is not a thing. You know, like you know, if
it happens, beautiful, but that truly is a fantasy that
people's actions can be closure, and that the closure is
really with yourself, that you don't need the other person
and we talk there's a we'll talk about Lena Lina

(47:29):
Wastes episode a little later, but very similar with like,
you don't need the person's response to heal, You don't
need the person to have a conversation with to get
your closure, that their actions and what they've done can
be your closure. And then you go about the business
of healing and repairing for yourself. You know, what do
you gotta do to take care of yourself? And also,

(47:52):
like I said in that clip, like and not just
reiterate like a lot of times, it ain't got shit
to do with choose. So what you the conversation is
gonna just gonna make you. The conversation's gonna make you
crash out.

Speaker 12 (48:03):
Love.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
You don't need the conversation. You don't need the conversation.
They did what they did, They acted how they acted.
You saw actions speak louder than words. Maya Angela says,
when somebody shows you who they are, believe them the
first time. You know what I'm saying. So somebody shows
you they are and they act a certain way, and
what a X, Y and Z believe it. It is
what it is? Okay, I love and keep it moving

(48:26):
because you are worthy and you are valuable and you
matter and the person that's gonna treat you like the
treasure that you are. Day out there, baby, day out there.
I don't want to rate them as like bronze, gold
and silver and gold whatever, but the third let's just
say the third or the third, the top I don't

(48:47):
know I'm short circuit. One of my favorite people in
the world is Ts Madison. Baby. I'm a fan, I'm
a fan, I'm a fan. And Ts really was one
of those lighthouses that let me see a verse of
myself out in the world that you know, really gave
me permission that it was okay to be candid, to
be who you are, authentically, to live out loud. And

(49:09):
in our combo we talked about unlearning beliefs that hinder
us from our own liberation. And here's what she said, uh,
in the episode beautifully titled I Need some Potassium in
my life? How do we or how do you? How
do I kind of unlearn those uh ideas that were
planted in our household, that were planted in our media,

(49:31):
that were planted in the shows that we watched, that
that gay is in theory, that gay is not a
real man. How do you go about? I'm learning that.

Speaker 15 (49:41):
I do know that in order for me to get
out of a box, I have to stop putting myself
in it.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
You can't even appreciate it.

Speaker 15 (49:55):
The fastest way out of a hole, uh huh is
to stop.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Wow, how many of us are still digging these shovels
that we weren't that aren't even ours. Somebody handed us
that shovel. We've been digging since we were in the playground.

Speaker 15 (50:10):
Yes, digging, and it's just like, girl, get out of there.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Oh this yeah, this was I think ts was my
like second or third interview that I recorded, one of
the first we dropped. I think we dropped Chelsea and
ts uh Maddie's episode at the same time. It was
an unexpected you know, I came into that conversation ready
for like ha ha hoo, and Maddie was immediately showed

(50:38):
me that this show could be even more because she
really pulled up as she always does, just open hearted,
vulnerable and ready to dive deep and talk about what
was on her heart. And the conversation just went in
so many beautiful places in it. And it's a conversation
I don't get to have often with my with my

(50:59):
trans sibling, just like that, like grounded and open and nuanced.
I don't always get to I mean, I don't always
get to have the conversations with a lot of people
for a lot of different reasons. Because well, let's let's
examine that for a second, which is you know, I

(51:19):
think we're all sometimes in our own ship and figuring
our own shit out, and so we don't we see
people we think, oh, when you got this figured out,
you handling it. And that conversation really reminded me. Wow,
even even when the people in our community seem to
be thriving, it doesn't mean that there's not other stuff

(51:41):
underneath that they're working. And of course, I know, like listen,
if you are queer in this country, if you're a
trans black woman, of course there are ship that you're
working out. But it was just really meaningful that Maddie
trusted me and this space to dive deep into the

(52:02):
the inner workings of her nervous system and her heart.
So I'm always I'm just always grateful for Maddie. And yeah,
baby drop, we all need to drop our shovels. We
all need to stop digging, get out of the hole, unlearn,
expand breathe and be yes for our final whole purlative.

(52:29):
These are my top three messy takeaways. Now, like I said,
we have the range here, we go from mile to
wid I mean, so we have some unhinged moments on
the show, but also we have some really tender and
open hearted moments on the show, and and and it's
my favorite. It's just my favorite to be able to

(52:50):
to exist in the space because, like I say, I
really when I describe the show, I always talk about brunch,
and because you know, bunch is my favorite meal, reticularly
a Sunday brunch. Don't invite me to a Saturday brunch.
That's not my fair a Sunday brunch. And you know
what I've always said, the Sunday brunch has to start
after one pm. Don't don't invite me to an eleven
am brunch. Fuck. I don't give a fuck if it

(53:11):
means breakfast and lunch, okay between I don't give fuck.
Brunch starts at one one thirty two. And that's I'm standing.
I said what the mess I said. But at brunch,
you know you you you you catch up on the
messy shit that your your your friends have done the
night before, like who's dick they were sucking, who's you know,

(53:33):
pussy day was? You know who they want to fuck,
who they want to be with, and then you catch
up on the other messy shit, which is like what's
going on at work and the boss that you can't stand,
or the coworker who's pressing you, and what's going on
with your family, you know, the tension between maybe your
siblings or the dumb shit your grandpa said, you know,

(53:54):
like all of it gets to exist. And then there's
those conversations, the messy dream that you have. And you know,
like I said, being human is messy. And I value
my brunch and my brunches because my brunches have been
my church and I don't know hyperbole in that, like,

(54:14):
my my brunch tables have often been where I get
to have communion with my with my chosen family. And
so I've always wanted this show to feel like that,
where it's like, oh, anything goes here, Like we can
talk about wherever you wherever y'all want to go, wherever
our guests want to go, like we can go. And
it can be, you know, as unhinged and wild and

(54:37):
sexy and kinky, and it can be also like vulnerable
and tender and and heartbreaking and difficult. And so here
are some of my my Here are my top three
messy takeaways, starting with another one of my besties. You know,
I love having my besties on the show. I have
like an inner council of besties. Who are just is

(55:02):
it me getting emotional talking about it? Who are my lifeline?
You know, my besties are truly my lifeline. As you know,
it's a secret that I don't have a relationship with
my blood family. So when I say lifeline, again, no hyperbole,
that that is what I mean. And so I was

(55:22):
so thrilled to have superstar pop star Vincent on the show,
and I asked them a question about mask for masks,
because you know, on these apps people always asking masks
for masks. And here's what Vincent said. Are you comfy
with people saying masks for mask?

Speaker 16 (55:40):
You can say what the fuck you need to say, Like,
I'm the kind of girl ask for what you want. Sure,
I can only give you what I got. I'm not
going to show up to your place like big and
beef and ron. That's not what I look like. That's
not the energy that I give. There are times throughout
my days where I'm like, oh, she could definitely go
and play basketball, or she can go and get her

(56:01):
fucking hair down and Garha nails absolutely, and I live
in both of those daily. I switch back and forth
every minute on the minute fluid move through it does
this Dick still pipe down on t but that's like
even with that, that's the thing. But you know what
I mean, Like I don't want to have to play
the parent trap to get you to be okay with

(56:22):
what I'm giving you.

Speaker 4 (56:23):
This is what it is.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Hi, And that, to me though, is the go where
you because I think anyone, not everyone, but some people listening,
it's like, how do I get to that? And what
you are doing is you've taken ownership back because sometimes
I think we try to be compatible with people and
when we're not, we confuse it with our worth and
suddenly we're not worthy. And it's like, your compatibility and
your worthiness are two different things. If I'm not able

(56:47):
to provide the masculinity or whatever it is for this person,
it doesn't mean that something's wrong with me and now
I need to go back and change myself. It's like,
own who you are, what you want, let them own
what they want, and if we meet in the middle, beautiful.
In my non binary journey, it has been you know,
it has been a jery. It's only been I think
I started identifying as non binary in the summer of

(57:10):
twenty twenty, so yeah, it's only it'll be. Yeah, I
think we're five years now, so it's very new. It's
a very new part of my identity. And so having
people like you know, r fight Master and having a
best fie like Vincent and other folks around me who
are also on that journey makes me, of course feel

(57:33):
less alone, but also the ability to have these conversations
that get into the nuances, you know, the masculinity of
it all and what that means. And I just love
how Vincent. I'm so inspired by how they own their
fluidity and how they own their mask, their femme and
their vincenteness. And you see it in their work, you'll

(57:57):
see it in their life as well, and so I'm
just obsessed with that. And they're right, you can ask
for what you want from your partners, but and partners
can ask what they want from you, but it doesn't
mean that you have to provide it. Not to bring
it back to Love Island. But uh, you know, that

(58:17):
show is very it's very straight. I mean a lot
a lot of the girls are queer, or a few
of the girls are queer, but it's a very straight show.
You're why, like they're all like coupling, the boys are
coupling with the girls. But if you watch it, you
see a lot of like gender dynamics play out. And
what I see from the girls side is sometimes some

(58:37):
of the girls are are shifting their themselves more than
the boys are. I don't know the boys shooting this
at all, but the girls are shifting themselves to be
attractive to the boys, to be what the boys want
them to be. And I really hate that we, as
women and queer folks, do that. We that we are

(59:01):
compelled to do that that we have been raised culturally
to do that. People can ask for what they want,
but I don't have to provide it for you, and
I get to stand and who I am, and I
get to attract the people who value love and celebrate
who I am. And especially if you're somebody who moves
through your gender expression, I don't think you know, I

(59:25):
spent a lot of years trying to be super fucking
masculine or super fucking macho, because you know, I'm six
foot one, I'm dark skinned in this male body. That
is just like culturally, what people want. They want, they
want Denzel, they want Michael B. Dwordan. You know, I'm
not that your girl is not ever gonna get it

(59:47):
and having to get comfortable with that having to and
so like friends like Vincent reaffirm that it's okay to
just be who you are. This next moment is with
my friend and mentor Lena. Waithe who you know? I
got so many messages from you from this episode. It
was our first Messy master class where we talked about,

(01:00:11):
you know, adult relationships or the lack thereof with our
mothers specifically, and what it is to heal. And Lena
said something that just were like in the moment reverberated
in my spirit, and it is exactly the the moment

(01:00:33):
that many of my loved ones texted me about. We
got dms about people. One of the comments about so
here's a clip of Lena and I talking about healing
with parents in general. She starts telling us a story
about her father and just this, you know, just listen
to it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
My father is no longer earthside. I suddenly when I
was fourteen, and there may be still things that I
need to work through with him that I can work
through even though he is not here. And I think
that that is something that we have to understand, is
that even though a parent isn't here to be in
conversation with you. That doesn't matter, because what my therapist

(01:01:17):
is really good about is saying, don't go to someone
needing a response for.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
You to heal. Oh yeah, because your healing is based
on their response and their response you are at their mercy.
You're fucked.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Yeah, And that was really big. He was just like,
their response is not relevant here. This is for your
own liberation. For you to say the thing to the person.
How they respond is not relevant. It's not relevant to you.

(01:01:55):
And I think a lot of people are still looking
and waiting and wishing for response, for answers yes that
they are not getting because maybe the person you're talking
to is not as evolved or emotionally intelligent or emostly mature.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
As you are. So it's a business.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
This is interesting in terms of like meeting people where
they're at. I don't necessarily know if I subscribe to that.
If someone else does, that's totally fair. I think to me,
is I have to meet you where I'm at?

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
That's far more powerful.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Because if I'm trying to you know now major because
if I meet you where you're at, then I'm going
to try.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
To bend and move and shrink myself myself so that
way you can be comfortable. Yeah, so I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Going to meet you where I'm at. And if that's
something that's a little bit too much for you, that's
also fair and okay. But then that means we are
not really meant to be in community.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
In this moment. And by the way, that's okay. Yes
for me, you're just like re listening to that, like
what a it just softens me to listen to that again,
there's a there's a delicious exhale, you know, similar to

(01:03:16):
what Karma was saying about closure, right, we don't need
your their partner's words foreclosure, And what Lina's saying is
that you don't need you know, even if a parent
is no longer on the physical plane, you don't need
the response for you to heal. You don't have to
go to someone looking for their response to heal that
that the things that you need to say are for

(01:03:38):
you for you to get free. And so you could
light a candle and say you could put it in
a journal, or you can say, write a letter to
them and send it or not send it, you know,
but it's a get that thing out of you and
don't shrink yourself to have to be in relationships you know,
and families complicated, Oh girl, families complicated. Family is so

(01:04:01):
fucking complicated, Okay, especially when we get to the holidays,
especially you know, in this summ, I'm sure there's some
of you whose parents, you know, voted for a particular somebody,
and so it's complicated. It's hard. But you do not
have to I don't know who needs to hear this,
but I'm gonna say you do not have to bend
and shrink and dim your light to make them feel

(01:04:26):
their worth, to make them feel their power. That is
not your fucking job. It might have been the role
they placed on you in childhood. They might have made
you responsible in all kinds of toxic and unhinged and

(01:04:47):
not compassionate ways. They might have made you feel that
was your role. And we can have empathy, right like
you know everyone My mom always says everyone's doing the
best they can what they know and have. But as
I say, sometimes people's best can be harmful. In our adulthood,
as you parent that little version of you, you get
to remind yourself that is not your responsibility to make

(01:05:08):
anyone just because you're related feel that they are worthy
by you shrinking. You do not have to dim your
light to make their light shine brighter. That's not love.
Love is we all get to shine. Love is I
want to know who the fuck you are. I want
you to know who I am. Love is curious. Love

(01:05:30):
is expansive. So if you find yourself in a box,
get the fuck out. Love this final moment. This is
the final This is the final ho prolative to give out.
And it's exciting for me because this was a one
of the first guests that we went out to and

(01:05:51):
it actually took us a few months. Like I think
the podcast got picked up in May of twenty twenty four,
or it was supposed to come out in May of
twenty twenty four. It got picked up actually a lot
earlier than that, but it was supposed to come out
May twenty twenty four, and it got pushed to September.
But we had already started reaching out to guests, and

(01:06:12):
Emily Nagoski, who wrote Come As You Are, is one
of the guests that I really wanted to speak with.
Emily is a profound teacher in the sex space and
Come As You Are as a book that was consistently
recommended to me when I found myself in the space,

(01:06:33):
and I highly recommend it. You know, it's centered around women,
but it is for anyone, and we talk about that
on the episode. It's truly for anybody. Like I felt
so seen and heard and validated by everything that she
says in that book, and it just allowed me to
see myself and allowed me to forgive myself and give

(01:06:55):
myself grace for how I've shown up in sex or
how I've not shown up in sex for myself and
for my partners. There are so many things that Emily
said during that episode that stays with me, but one
of the ones that I repeat constantly is this the

(01:07:17):
world puts you in the cage, but did you lock
yourself in? At what point did you lock yourself in
that cage and say, Okay, this is where I'm at
and everybody needs to be in their cage as opposed
to seeing people free and go oh, I can get
free too. Yes like that? There again, which story are
you choosing to pick? It's such a fascinating it's but

(01:07:38):
it's difficult because it requires and I think that this
is just a societal thing and a cultural thing. We
we have a hard time one holding space for multiple truths.
We have a hard time grieving and mourning. And so
there's there's a level which I think you do so
beautifully in the book where you say, I'm so sorry
that the world told you these things. And so there
is a grief and a mourning for the time lost

(01:08:01):
that you spent beating yourself up or ignoring yourself or
not going places because or not having.

Speaker 17 (01:08:06):
Access to like simple basic truths about like what's true
about like sexual bodies, what's.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
True about genesis?

Speaker 17 (01:08:12):
What's true about how our brain processes sexual information? Like
of course people feel shitty if they don't have access
to basic information and the idea that they are allowed
that who they are as a sexual person is someone
worth being.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
Who they are as a sexual person is someone worth being.
Who can I sit in this for a second with you?
Yeah that is revolutionary if you can get there, like
if you can feel that, Yeah, that is revolutionary. That

(01:08:50):
still gives me chills, y'all. Who we are as a
sexual person is someone worth being, you know? And I
think this is a beautiful place to kind of land
the plane of our season one, because you know, the
show started with you know, We're here to destroy shame

(01:09:11):
around sex by talking about sex, and so that's how
a lot of that was the intention behind a lot
of the first episodes, and we of course expanded that
to relationships and identity. But when Emily said that it,
if you there's the clips on Instagram, you can see,
it takes the wind out of me, because there is

(01:09:32):
so much shame, you know, like so much religious shame
and cultural shame. And in her book she talks about
sexual disgust and the things that we're taught to be
disgusted by, you know, where there's a lot of sexual
discuss around queer sex that queer people have that we
don't even realize that. We have a lot of shame
around kinks, around what you're into, whether you know it's

(01:09:53):
feet and farts, or it's around you know, sex outside
or you know, missionary position. And by the way all
of us hold it, whether it's from the most vanilla
to the most wild sex like there is, we are
all One thing I know for sure, Oh my god,

(01:10:15):
one thing I know for sure is that we are
all navigating shame in one way or another. I you know,
did it talk and I'll you know, drop this on
sub Sack. I know that there are buckets that, like,
we are all feeling insecure, and at least one of
them age Body, Beauty finances, Future knowledge relationships. That any

(01:10:39):
person that you're looking at, any person that you're talking to,
has an insecurity in probably more than one of those buckets,
but at least one of those buckets age, Body, beauty finances,
Future knowledge relationships. There is an insecurity in all of us,
somewhere in any of those buckets, and it produces so

(01:11:02):
much shame. And sex is one of those spaces which,
you know, sex encapsulates age, It encapsulates body, It encapsulates beauty,
It can encapsulate finances. You know, there are times where
I have not felt sexy because the money was not there.
You know what I'm saying. It encapsulates your future and

(01:11:23):
encapsulates knowledge. What do you know? What don't you know?
And your relationship. Sex encapsulates all of that. So, of course,
of course, to hear Emily say that who we are
as a sexual person is someone worth being. The permission,
the permission to be is what I hope you take

(01:11:43):
away from this entire season, that you have the permission
to exist, to live, out loud, to live boldly, to
be messy. You don't have to get life right. Okay,

(01:12:04):
The goal should not be to get it right. The
goal should be to live, to learn, to be curious.
Remember our definition for disruptive curiosity, intentionally asking questions that
interrupt the personal habits, the generational cycles, and internal narratives

(01:12:26):
that keep us from living liberated lives. So on our hiatus.
I hope that you ask so many questions of yourself.
I hope that you give yourself permission to be and
I hope that you always remember but you are so

(01:12:48):
deeply loved. I love you well. That is season one.
I can't let you go without saying a couple of
thank yous. I could not do this show without my producer,

(01:13:11):
my rock, and my work boyfriend, my work husband, my
husband boyfriend work Vincent de Johnny, who let me just
take a second to give him his flowers. The reason
that you hear any of this and see any of
this is because of Vincent's incredible dedication, and he always

(01:13:36):
goes above and beyond, and he cares about the show
as much as I do. And I literally does my
dog shaking to the background in agreement. I literally literally
could not do this show without Vincent, So shout out
to Vincent, Shout out to our EP Gavi Collins, who's
also been such a champion and advocate of this show,

(01:13:57):
and also shout out to one of my big mouth mentees,
late Brandom, who started helping us out in the last
month or so. In fact, our dream teenth episode host
throughout history was her brainchild. This show is a labor
of love and it's only possible because of this hommunity.
So thank you to you as well. I love you.

(01:14:20):
Have a beautiful rest of your summer, and I'll see
you in the fall for new episodes, brand new guests,
and also a full on video podcast, maybe full episodes
on video fuck guess finally, Okay, I'll see you in
the fall. I don't know what date yet, don't ask.
We'll find the date and we'll let you know. I
love you, I love you, I love you so much. Bye.

(01:14:48):
You can find me on Instagram as well at Brandon
Kyle Goodman. You can find our podcast at tell Me
Something Messy, and you can join our community on the
Messy Monday's substack. When you subscribe, you'll get weekly posts,
recommendations on sex and self and so much more. Also,
I want to hear from you, so send your topic ideas,
your messy stories, your submissions, your game ideas to tell

(01:15:12):
Me Something Messy at gmail dot com. You can also
call us at six six nine sixty nine Messy That
is sixty six nine six nine six three seven seven nine,
Rate review and share this podcast with all your HOE
and aspiring HOE friends. Really really helps the show out,
all right. Until next time, ask about the politics of

(01:15:34):
that dick before you make it spit, make sure they
eat the kitty before they beat the kitty, before fuckation
or suctation communication. And in case you haven't heard it yet,
today you are so deeply loved. I love you bye.

(01:15:55):
Thank you so much for listening to tell Me Something Messy.
If you all enjoyed the show, send me up so
to someone else who might like it. Tell Me Something
Messy was executive produced by Ali Perry, Gabrielle Collins and
Yours Truly. Our producer and editor is Vince Dejohnny. For
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