How Facing Mortality Inspires Better Art w/ Abbi Jacobson

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh my god, Hello, hello, welcome back. It's season two.
We're officially here. I have missed you. I have missed you.
I hope you had a lovely summer. I hope your
fall is off to a wonderful start. I guess it's
almost winter. We're in October. Girl, I'm gonna give you
a couple like a little homekeeping to start this off.

(00:22):
So first and foremost, like I said, welcome back to
season two. We are also now officially a video podcast,
So you can watch the video version of this episode
with Abby Jacobson over on my YouTube page. But let
me tell you how this is gonna work. So every
week we'll release the audio. If you want to watch

(00:43):
the visuals, the whole visuals love, you can check that
over at YouTube and the link will be in our
show notes. And then every Monday you can come back
here and you can hear a messy story. We're just
some messy thoughts, whatever is going on, or maybe answer
some more questions, or it'll be some something that might
have gotten cut from the main conversation that will show

(01:05):
you our in our bonus. That's the structure, you know.
We're expanding, we're exploring, of course, you know, I always
want to hear from you. Oh, by the way, so
you can always still email me at tell me something
Messy at gmail dot com, whether you have questions, feedback,
guest ideas, suggestions, all of it. But if you also
want to send me your messy stories but you'd rather

(01:27):
be anonymous, go to something messy dot com and you
can submit your messy stories or your messy questions anonymously.
I won't know who it is. I only know what
you tell me because when you email me, obviously, I
keep everything discreet because that's my vibe. You know, We've
been doing this for years, truly, That's how I operate. Like.

(01:47):
If it's supposed to be anonymous, it's anonymous. Even if
I see your name, I forget it. I'm recording this currently,
this opening section currently in New York. I'm here doing
or rehearsing right now for my stage ho Church. If
you are in New York or you're near New York
and you can come. We are running from October eighth
to November eighth. It's so cool because Lina Waith is

(02:10):
one of the producers ours and Nova is a theater
production company on it. It's gonna be a great, great,
great time. Also, Lina waithe will be on this season.
By the way, we have some great guests for this season,
including today you'll hear Abby Jacobson, otskol Kotzka, h Francesca Ramsey.

(02:32):
Who else did we talk to? Davia Rogers who if
you listened to season one, you know Divior is one
of my besties. We don't have a good time, oh,
Duran Bernard. I mean we just like some incredible, incredible,
incredible fucking guests. So again, uh, feel free to stay here.
I love you stay here listening to the audio. You know,
our headphone zone. So if you're in your car, you're

(02:52):
on the subway. Oh. Also, don't forget to join me
on substack now if you're there on substack. I've been
a little quiet the last couple of weeks because these
rehearsals are my ass. Girl, Like, I am in rehearsal
all day, all night. I'm in meetings on my lunch breaks.
It's been a lot, but it's very, very exciting. So

(03:12):
join me on subsac. Brandoncocoman dot subsac dot com. Okay,
I think that's everything. Talking about relationship, sex and identity
always reminds me that being a human is messy. So
I wanted to create a compassionate space where we could
feel less alone and embrace our mess together, the funny,
the vulnerable, the cringe, and even the kinky, because every

(03:32):
part of who we are matters. So don't be shy, baby,
tell me something messy. Messy patrons, welcome to the show.
I'm your messy mom, Brandon Kyle Goodman, and you know
what that means. It is time for a guess. Now.
While they get situated, we will get our messy. Kekey
started with a hoe manifest stow. Okay, so repeat after
me a louder in your head. Grant me the serenity

(03:54):
to unpack my shame, the courage to heal, the wisdom
to know that sex is not about venetration, the audacity
to advocate for my pleasure and boundaries, the strength to
not call my ex that fuck boy, buck girl, or
fuck they, for it is better to masturbate by myself
in peace than to let someone play in my mother
fucking face. Okay, let the hommunity say holllujah. Baby. I'm

(04:18):
trying to keep my cool, but today we have comedy
royalty in our messy living room. Abby Jacobson, co creator
and star of broad City, plus the force behind the
series A League of their Own. She also co founded
the mentorship and fellowship program Prelude, which is for aspiring storytellers,
giving them a seat at the table. She is funny,

(04:38):
she's fearless, and she's always unapologetically herself, which makes her
a perfect fit for our homemmunity. See y'all, please help me.
Welcome Abby Jacobson. Hi, Hi, thank you for being here.
A little okay, so this is our little We haven't
named them, so if you want to give the names.
But that's her little penis or little uterus, another little penis.

(05:01):
Are they so cute? So like if you get stressed
at all, I like to hold all. That's a penis,
that's a little that's a little choked.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
The little balls, ball legs.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Bags, a little ball legg Are they adorable?

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah? I mean this one, I mean that's really little.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
We can hold What should we name? I haven't named them?
What's that? What's the giving? I feel like this.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Is okay, you do know how like okay, I don't
know anyone with this name. It's sort of like a
dated name. Dick, you know, like Richard. Yeah, why is
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
I'm always confused by that too. How did Richard become
Dick and not rich I know, so like Richard Richard,
So that's Richard love and then I mean this is
a uterus. I want to say Samantha, but that just
feels like am I obsessed with Samantha from Sex and

(06:02):
the City.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
I mean I think that's Richard and Sam. Richard and
Sam kind of basic names, but.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
It feels right. It's like giving your dog a human name. Yeah,
So Richard and Sam and then this is clearly their child. Yeah,
maybe what they what's what's a giving? If we're like
these little beady eyes, it's giving like kind of a
sea creature.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, and it doesn't seem like necessarily as overtly friendly
as figuring figuring themselves out?

Speaker 1 (06:39):
What about Like is it Sebastian from The Little Mermaid?

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Richard, Sam and Sebastian. That's great, great, especially the crab,
like the best one, the best one because it's founder
under the sea. I know, yeah, SETI did you watch
did you see the real life one that you It's wonderful,
you know what, Yes, it is it is, but I

(07:07):
feel like people have like thoughts about when way they
turn cartoons into real whatever. But it's so I mean,
I wanted to live in that world. Okay, anyways, by
the way, well let's do messy mint. It's get into
this so things get to be nprocessed. Any opinions or
thought shared have the right to shift, change, evolve today, tomorrow,
ten years from now. And if during the keiky something
feels too personal or unintentionally offends, we used to say

(07:27):
word football, and that gives a second to pause, pivot
and a jest of course, sound good.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
With me.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
You've got You've got, You've got rich No, Richard, I've
got Samantha, I've got Sebastian. Sorry, I'm Mike. Shall we
play a loop breaker?

Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah? I love that.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Okay, beautiful, We're gonna I'm gonna do this on like, Okay, beautiful,
We're gonna play smash her pass. I'll give you a prompt.
You'll tell me I feel smash it. Do you pass it? Yeah?
So smash your pass Pineapple and pizza. That's kept the conversation.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
I'm going to.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
You're gonna pass, I'm gonna smash as I feel like
I used to pass on it because everyone would make
fun of me. But it's actually a lovely flavorpool.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
A lot of people love it. It's a lovely I
love both separately.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
You like a pineapple, I love a pizza.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
You know what I gotta say?

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Tell me, I haven't.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Maybe I've tried it once.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Did you it just pineapple and pizza? Or was it
pineapple pepperoni? Do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 (08:27):
It was so long ago, I don't even know, Like
I think, I like i've discounted.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Discounted, yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's because people judge they
don't like it.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
I don't know if I feel like I don't know
if I know it to be like a like off
limits kind of revisit it. Do you feel like people
are like you did?

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yes? Yes, really yeah. People feel the same way.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
About like it's called a Hawaiian it's hawayan.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yes, it's whine. People feel the same way about Hawaiian
slice as they do about like Mayo, like strong feelings
on pizza. No, I don't know about that.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
I used to be so anti Mayo, like really did
not like there are a lot of and now I'm like, no,
I kind of like it.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
I'm into.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
The fry dipping mayo.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
That's the time to have a male. It's so French, it's.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
So it's so good.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
I love I see, I'm I'm actually technically allergic to tomatoes,
so I don't like to catch up. But I love
a male. I love anoli.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
What about pizza? You can't have that?

Speaker 1 (09:24):
So yes, I'll do it. I'll do it.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
You're like, this is this is ket like sugar.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
It's not real. No, why do I want tomato paste
on my fries when I can have a nice mayo
and nice aoli.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
I've switched. I've changed my tune as well.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Can I teach you something else? Monzarelli six? Next time
you have Montrela sticks honey mustard?

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Wow? Okay, the one place that I think clothes that
that I had mozzarella sticks recently out here. Not a
common occurrent.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
It's not a common occurrent. But isn't it perfect? It is? Okay,
just like some fried cheese. Instead of the marinera, get
the honey mustard.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Okay, and you have marinera.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
I don't want it, you know, I don't want it.
I don't want it. I don't want it. Okay, sorry,
past pine apple, one pizza, all right, smash for pass
a fanny pack across the chest. It's a smash.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
I love it. I love it because you're like, I think, okay,
I think you can also go like when I'm taking
my dog on a hike, I have a more like
utilitarian version of that.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
And then I have a bag that kind of could
is more like a like a not crossbody, but when
I wear a crossbody, it kind of it feels yeah,
and I'm into it.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
I actually like have like a closet with like five
or six that those are my bags. I love across it.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Becomes more part of the outfit than like a separate bag.
You keep it on, you keep it right there.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
And also like if you're going out or anything, it's
just really nice to just yeah, here it is. It's
I know, yeah, people, I think it's a queer thing.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
You think people are not into it.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
I feel like people really come for the gays who
have a fanny pack across their chest, and I.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
I guess maybe you're right. I just think it's so
smart and it's a it's smart and it's like really
useful and.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
As the thing. Yes, it's just a little personality.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
It's like a lot of personality.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
It's a smash smash her past karaoke, m you know
what smash Okay, But I'm not like a big I
hate you hate it.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
It's a pass okay. See, like I think I would
go in the middle. I don't know the last time
I've done it.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Do you have a karaoke song, like a go to song?
Can you sing a little bit of it?

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I used to do, let's give them something to talk about.
Oh bye, who's that by? Bye?

Speaker 1 (11:57):
Vincent? Who's that? Bye?

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Oh my god, She's incredible. This isn't are saying no.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
No, no, We're gonna just give him something to talk about.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yes, I'm so sorry, Sorry, Monni Ray, sorry and everyone
that's upsetting to me. I used to do that, and
then I used to do Son of a Preacher man.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Oh, you got classics.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
I would do like Classics of a Preacher man, right, Yeah,
but I like, I haven't done.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
It in in so long. I went to a karaoke
party a couple of months ago. Uh, for the first time,
and the first time a long time. I just watched.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
I don't I feel like you would kill.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
I know, because you know what it is. Every time
I go they're actual singers, and it really stresses me out.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Okay, that really stresses me out as well. And I
feel like it's like, all right, we know.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
We know.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
It's almost a little like you're you, like, are clearly
a professional singer.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
Like why are you here? Like this is karaoke?

Speaker 2 (12:54):
But they love it.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
They love it.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
I mean when they do it multiple times.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
They go song after and.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
The people that like rush the book.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah. Yeah, so like why would I do it? Because
because how am I going to follow that? This is
you're literally a singer.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Okay. The last time I went now I'm remembering, yes please,
awesome spot in New York that's like late night you
rent like a little you can rent like different size,
like a little booth. Yeah, yes, I haven't gone to
one here, but there that was. I remember it being
really fun. It was like very spontaneous. Yeah, and everyone sucked,
Like everyone sucked. You're like, yes again, I say the

(13:34):
worst the better.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, And I'll pick the song for you. I'm going
to pick the biggest ballot for you. It should be
that if you can sing, don't come.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
You should have to be you should have to be
what someone tells you to do.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, somebody picks a song for you. Yeah, I like that.
I prefer the booth my friend used to back in
New York when I used to live there. My friend
used to host a carry and karaoke and I at
a bar. So if you were at the bar, you
were just at karaoke.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Which I don't love that because then you're just because
you're just I would never do that.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
It's just there's no safety there with with all of it,
and so you're there with the good singers and bad
singers and there's just like.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, but a room, a little room, room, drink. They're
kind of oh, it's like drinks and it's kind of
like terrible, and it's kind of sticky.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Always sticky is always because it's like they move you
out like that. Yes, absolutely, we're gonna get through these games.
We might not smash our pass reality TV marathons pass
you like a reality TV.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Not a big reality TV.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
That's fair. Every once in a while, everyone's what's the
show like that you might find?

Speaker 2 (14:48):
I mean, like my wife and I will like jump
on like something where I'm like I need to know
what traders is to be able to move into public
you know what I mean, Like you.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Have to you know what love? Do? You know what
Love Island is?

Speaker 2 (15:01):
But do you watch is I didn't watch that. You
watch the one that sounds so old where you like
marry someone.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
I guess that stressed me out.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
It's so stressful. But I was like, we're in. We
don't know what's going on. But then we didn't keep
watching every season.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Okay, Love is Blind. I was in and then I
was out because I was like, I just can't get
behind you marrying somebody you haven't met. I just I
actually cannot sup.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
We all are kind of fascinating. It's like these human experiments.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah, but the Love Island I like because they're they're
really just trying to fuck.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
So Love Island, are is it?

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Like?

Speaker 2 (15:36):
What is it? There's a love Island that's looking for love?

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Like I know people at home just want don't do this.
Don't ask that question, because I will go in with you.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Like, what's what makes it different?

Speaker 1 (15:45):
So Love Island is literally just a bunch of hotties
on an island, Okay, and then you have to couple up.
And if you're not coupled up, you risk getting kicked
out and they and they do this by also introducing bombshells,
so they like, you might like you and I might
be in a couple and we're like we're real hot, yes,
and then like three hot.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
We are like what what what are we doing? Are
we as a species like a bombs So they must
like know what?

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (16:14):
What? Like everyone really yes?

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah? Yeah, And they introduced bombshells.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Those bombshells were not on the island before.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
No, no, no, they're introduced and then they have to
couple up, and so you might leave your couple to
join one of the bombshells vice versa. It's like who
do you have chemistry with? And you're trying to make
it to the end as a couple, and then you
get the money and.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
And then you don't stay together.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Well they are. I think they are staying together because
now they have Beyond the Villa, which is a reality
show that happens after sow think they're staying together.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Okay, Okay, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Listen, I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
I'm kind of like it's also like it just it
is fascinating and I get how you get sucked in,
Like what did we watch and I never watched it
again because I was.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Like, I need my time, I need my life.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Angry at like the queer altimate? Okay, is that an
offshoot of something else?

Speaker 1 (17:03):
I think it's the off shoot of the ultimato?

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, could it be?

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Could it be? It's the because it's like you go
in you and you're already a couple. You're a couple,
and then there's.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Is happening. Yeah you have like chance with like all
these other like other like couple, like we're not sure.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yes, and then it's like either we get married or
we don't. And I was like I don't love that. Yeah, yeah, like,
don't give me an ultimatum, like either we're gonna get
married or not. Why would we go to a TV
show to figure out if we want to stay together?

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Why would we go to a TV show? That's a
good question for all of them, right, Why would we
go to a TV Why would you? Okay, one reality
show I love tell a couple of therapy like all day,
all day, all day episodes.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Episode.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Okay, so we are not I have not watched the
latest season. We're like kind of saving it.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Where are you at right now?

Speaker 2 (17:59):
We watch the the like the last season. Yeah, but
we u.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
That poly couple and like the yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
We've we've been like uh not like traveling and stuff
like that. Yes, yeah, that one. It doesn't feel the same.
But to the question like why go to TV, I'm like,
I appreciate that. I'm like, they're also getting like the best, they're.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Getting the best, like doctor Horna is Wow do I
just want to like sit with her. And she's the
type of therapist that I want her to tell me
you're doing good. You know what I'm saying, like not
be enough. I'd be like whatever, my therapist like compliments me.
It really.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Takes. She has a way of like very so succinctly, so.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Succinctly like yeah, I'm telling you exactly what's happened. Yeah, Yeah,
we're we're a doctor Orner household for Yeah, that's a
great show because I understand why you're going. You're like
you're actually gonna get realized.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, And I'm like I'm happy. I'm happy for them
versus everyone else. I'm a little like, oh, no, why
are you on here?

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah, yeah, okay, so past sorry, I have a really
long no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
I'm asking these questions. The last one is smash our
past sharing chapstick with a friend.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
I think I'm smash.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
I'm a smash too. We're friends.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, I think I'm smashed. I'm like that. Yeah, that gross.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
It's not gross to me.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
I don't think that's gross. It's the same as like
sharing a drink or sharing him maybe because it's like direct.
But Straw gets like a little like how big of
the friend group?

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Sure, but I think it's the bestie.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
I think it's the bestie. But also like, I'm also
not pressed. Well, I think I'm like, I don't know,
if there'd be that many people, I'd be like, no,
there'd be some, but not. Yeah yeah, Smash, Yeah, I'll
serve you. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Okay, Smash, you won the game? I won? You won?
You win a lollipop?

Speaker 2 (19:56):
I want all okay, but everybody.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Want if everyone wins. Yeah, that's true. I'm not gonna
lie to you.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Everyone, just okay. Sorry to keep talking about but I
she never had a Totsi pop.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
Oh do you think she's missing out? Do you love
a pop?

Speaker 2 (20:16):
I would say that's the on one missing.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Oh wait, Totsy pop is the blow Pop, not the
ttsy roll. That's the commercial with the owl which goes
how many licks does it take to the best and
little chemist? Well how to get to the Yeah, and
he like licks it twice and then it's I remember
that what they don't advertise what they used to? I mean, okay,

(20:42):
so good? Right? Yeah, isn't it just like it's just
like it's a great It's a great little treat. By
the way, if you have prompts, you can email tell
Me Something Messy at gmail dot com and join us
over on YouTube YouTube dot com. Backslash Brandon K good
or is it a forward slash? I don't ever know
which one is backwards or forwards? But you understand Brandon, okay, good,
that'll get you where you need to go.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
My hair, you were I never wear it never.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
It looks beautiful. I love the face. What's your skincare routine?
Can I ask? I love skincare stuff.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
I'm really into. My friend has a brand called less
l E S S E. Oh, and it's like beautiful.
It's like a light blue super like like ethical products
all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, they just didn't event with Nike and so I did. Yeah,
I was at this event for them because they did
a collaboration.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, we couldn't go. Joy Jodey's very good friends with Nita,
who owns it. Okay, I really like her products. I
use that like during the day.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Okay, and then once your nighttime. What's your secret weapon?

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Okay? So I fucking splurgh something nuts. But I use
so little of it that it's dumb like that like
blue August Dean Rich cream. Sure, and I'm.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Like you're preserving because.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
I'm like, how long can this last?

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Meetings?

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, so I don't know how big the thing is.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
They do that on purpose. They're really smart. Also when
they I got good, thank you. I bought a red
light mask. Change everything, okay, change everything that I got
it from. I got the their body one and their
body makes.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
The they're a gun.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah, they're gune. So they now make this face mask
and you sit with it. You sit with it. It's
like a nine minute routine. It just goes through three
minute cycles of red, red, and blue. I got it
because I was leaving the barber and I ran into
a friend of mine and his skin was obnoxious. Want this,
And I said, why is your skins obnoxious? He said,
the red light.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
That okay, can you you should be like saying.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
I know I should their body.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Come on, I love you should get stuff I should get, I.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Should get she get.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
We both want.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
For me it works. We're gonna get it work, and
this will be the arc of our season. At the
end of this season, we're gonna get We'll have you back,
and I'm gonna do an unboxing.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Do it this whole time with me on. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, they're terrifying. They're terrifying masks, but yeah we can.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Do like yeah, it's like the little the.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Little eyes like a white man. It's like, what's that.
I don't like horror movies? What's that horror movie? The
is it? Jason who wears the mask?

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Scream? Scream stream is like the I hate harmones, I
hate horror, but Jason, No, it's like it's like Jason
Jason the hockey mask.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, it's like a hockey mask. Yeah. Yeah, they are
the same Jason Jason in the thirteenth of the same.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Oh sorry, I was like, not the scream, not the
scream not the scream is not scream is like ghoulish
like a yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Anyways, anyway, you want to tell me something messy.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
Okay, it's not even that messy, but it's like a
little messy. Okay. So I was going to this gym
for a while.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
M m hmmm, do you want to tell me something messy?

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah. I had a hard time, as you know. And
I love the gym. I'm so supportive of the gym.
I'm not going to say which gym is never and
it's like a group class, but the gym is also
open to other members, and there's like other areas that
the other members can take an open floor, open floor plan.
But when these group classes go on, that takes place
in like the main part of the gym.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
So it's not like in a room like a closed
off studio.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
It's like inside which already. Yeah, I'm like like I
like the group class, Like I'm like part of me
is like yeah community, yeah, here we go accountability. And
then I'm like, I don't want to be like with
other people while I'm like huffing and puffing. Yeah fair,
But I love going to like a gym and like
headphones on doing what things.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Love love love. I used to teach group fitness and
I hate group classes.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, it's it's just I feel like I can't help
but be like I'm against them, and like are you
going as fast or like? And then I'm gonna hurt
myself and I'm like.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
I'm get too competitive. Yeah, and then I want to
prove myself and it's like what am I prove?

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Exactly? No one else cares, so at this class.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
Question anymore, you don't go to the gymn No, lovely.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Was that the question?

Speaker 1 (25:23):
The question was when they playing music, are they playing
music for your class or is it class going off
of the gym's music?

Speaker 2 (25:30):
The class is going off the gym m. Well, I
think that technically the instructors are like putting on a playlist. Okay,
I'm actually gonna get to the music in a second.
My biggest gripe was that like I'd be doing you know,
there's like these cycles, you know they do, like you
do a set of this as set of the seat
of this, and you're gonna run through it three times. Yeah,

(25:52):
and so it's like I'd be doing burpies, which are
like the bane of my existence. Like truly, it's like
the worst way for me to like I feel like
shitious about myself, and then all these other people are
like walking through the class to get to like their equipment.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
While as well, and you're like on.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Top and I feel like I got to move out
of the way. But no one else in the class
is bothered. It's just me that I have a couple
of friends, and it's like it's clearly just you where
I'm like, I I don't know what it is. I'm
just like, this space is not big enough.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
It's not safe.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
It's not safe. It's not safe. It's not big enough
for us. It's like you're being like I'm like in
the doorway. I don't like it. How many who are
in the class like fourteen?

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, it's just not that messy of a story. But okay,
so then this is my friend's messy yes, which I love.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
We love.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
He hates the music played during the class.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
What kind of music is that?

Speaker 2 (26:51):
It depends on the instructor. And sometimes it's like not
necessarily bad music, but it's just like so like low
or like like to clubby yeah, where you're like not
able to like to find your rhythm, taped up kind
of with it and kind of like know the music.
Sometimes I like a familiar lyric. Yeah, everyone want to

(27:15):
be like you know, absolute and like you can accomplish
that for everyone.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Over the playlist, absolutely, and you can't, like unless we're
theme class. We you know, you want to hit a
bunch of different genres and artists.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
You don't want to be doing burpies to like a
like moody. No no, no, no no, you got to
like get through it.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
I need like a ninety vps.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
So he wrote a note and he Okay, he's going
to be so mad, but he is like a note writer.
He will write a letter and he'll write a whole thing,
and then he'll say, where do we go from here?

Speaker 1 (27:53):
At the end, at the end of every letter, where
do you go over here?

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Because I appreciated note, that's like I need a response back.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah. So I'm almost happy I don't go anymore because
he just wrote the note about the music, and I'm
like not in the middle of it, because we always
go together.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Still feeling noticed from both of you no matter what.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
So this is not necessarily totally my messiness.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
But but it's it's messy that you're in orbit.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yes, it's mess and I'm just particular about my my work.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
App Listen, we need to be a particularly about the workouts.
And we need friends who are willing to write letters
for us, because I've never write the letter, but I
will read the yelp reviews. Oh my husband yelps, Like
if he doesn't like it, he's going to write about it.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
I wish, I like, I kind of wish I was.
I wish I will just like do this. I'll be like,
I'll go to podcast and I'll leave and now I
like work out in my garage damn alone, because there's
more than enough space you can do what you're doing. Burpes,
because why would I ever make myself do that.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
I would never do berbies my choice. Am like burbies
are something that like somebody needs to prescribe to me,
and then I'll do it. And with a attitude as well,
because why are we why are we jumping and pushing
up and squatting, like can we.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Want jump back?

Speaker 1 (29:13):
It's the jump back?

Speaker 2 (29:14):
I really, it's the jump forward, jump forward.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Doesn't want the legs are back. I'm like, well, we're
on the ground, I know. But the fact that you
got to jump bick in and come up, now, that's insane.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
It's insane. Maybe it's just burpies. It's like that's the grip.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
That's the grepe. I wonder who like invented it. I
was thinking about this other day. Th this is not interesting,
but I was thinking about who invented the kettle.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Bells became very popular, became popular, But I think it
might be like old school. Why do I want to say?
It's like Russian? Okay, I'm making this up.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
I have no idea, like can we look up the
history of kettlebells.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
I don't know why. I feel like it is like
old school, like weightlifting, and then it became it became
popular because it used to be like there was a
wave when I was in New York more of like
kettlebell classes.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yes, yes, yes, that was when like the boom of
like fitness classes. Starry popua, what's it say?

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Who I think I should leave?

Speaker 1 (30:16):
You've done it?

Speaker 2 (30:17):
That's crazy? Wow, Because I feel like it is like
it's like old school, like very simple, like this one
thing could be the whole work up.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, because I just remember that there were classes that
were like specifically kettlebell classes. And why was I talking
about kettles?

Speaker 2 (30:31):
I got that.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
I'm just's that's brilliant. I know you really, you really
knew that. I know that you know the important thing? Yeah,
all right, shall we do some messy mail lovely? As always,
your submissions remain anonymous. This first one says, my best
friend and I have always blurred the lines a little

(30:54):
late nights, too many drinks, and suddenly we'd end up
in each other's beds. We always laughed it off the
next morning like it was nothing. But now they're in
a serious relationship and I can't stop thinking about the
times we were together. Do I tell them I still
have feelings? Or do I bury it and risk losing
the friendship?

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (31:11):
My l L just like questions. That's part of me
feels like you should tell them, yeah, because like it's
just a thing. But I don't think you have to
lose the friendship. I think you can say I have
these feelings for you, but I also support you in
this relationship. But then I'm going, is that fair? If

(31:31):
they're in a relationship, is it fair to tell them
you like you you're in love with them?

Speaker 2 (31:36):
I guess one what you know? I would assess like
how uh serious that relationship is?

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (31:45):
And then I would really think about, like what are
the feelings?

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Uh huh?

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Like are are you in love with them. Yeah, I
think that's different than like I miss hooking up.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Sure, that's fair. Whither are you missing the intimacy of
the sex or you actually like, oh no, I love
this person, And I.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Think really looking at like, do I have feelings just
because they're now in a relationship.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yes, that's fair now that I can't have them. Yeah, yes,
people want to pursue.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
But I think you're right of like, I don't think
it has to ruin the relationship. It's all about the
way it's conveyed.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
I think my first thought is like, Okay, if I
were was this caller, right, I think I'd be like, Okay,
if I'm in love with this person, yeah, I don't
want that. I wouldn't want to bury that because I'd
want to, like one, express that and say how much
the relationship means to me, But also like, yeah, what

(32:44):
if there's a chance that they're also they've had feelings
and didn't know how to say it either, Yes, fair
and buried it and was like, well, there's no chance
there they feel the same way, and you always wonder,
you'd always wonder, and this.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Is your to me. It's like if we're besties, I
think we can say anything to each other and survive it.
You know, they can get through it together, and even
like to your point, like how you say it, which
is like, hey, I'm going to say something. I want
you to know that no matter what, I love you
and like I don't have a solution, and so I
want to create a solution with you that it's not
like leave your person, but it's like I'm dealing with

(33:17):
this thing, and I want to say it so that
like we can deal with it together, and then I promise,
like I'll support however we want this to be. Yeah,
that's what I would do, because you don't want to
keep it.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
No, it's kind of the plot of my best friend's wedding. Yeah,
oh my god, Yeah it is, isn't it. He's like
marrying a young he's marrying Cameron, and then she's like,
but I'm in love with you, yes, And so I
wouldn't do what she does. Yeah, I wouldn't do just
like try to break it up. No, No, I would
just go right for the and guess what I think

(33:48):
they stayed friends. Yeah, and it was okay, and it
was it worked out. Also, if I were the person
in the relationship think about it. That's always good. Think
about what you would feel if they came to you
and said, yes, I have feelings for you. You wouldn't be like,
I can't be friends with you anymore. I think if
you didn't have feelings, you'd be like, I'm so sorry,
I don't feel the same way. Yeah, I still want

(34:10):
you in my life. I still want to be friends,
and it's okay, thank you for having feelings. Yeah, it
means so much to me.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
That's emotional intelligence, is it? It is? That's because yeah,
it's like it's empathy, right, you're like putting yourself in
their position and trying to think about, like how would
it feel, and then using that as a way to
determine your strategy for approaching them.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
But ultimately, I think keeping it in this, the vein
of this doesn't have to end anything. In fact, it
might bring us closer together because it's it's a it's
a thing. It might cause a little rupture, but we
can repair that and maybe be closer than before.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Exactly. Worst case, it would almost be like a really
like how there are some exes that remain really really.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yes, yes, yes we hate that we did what we
do want we do what we do well, You're lucky.
This one says, my sister has a habit of dating
people I've either crushed on or actually hooked up with.
At first, I told myself it was just a coincidence,

(35:17):
but after the third time, it started to feel like sabotage.
I don't know if she's doing it on purpose or
if we just have the same taste in people. How
do you deal when sibling rivalry shows up in your
love life? Do you have a sibling?

Speaker 2 (35:27):
I have an older brother.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Do you have any sibling rivalry? I mean, or like,
what do y'all do? Not in that way?

Speaker 2 (35:34):
That's interesting. I don't know anybody else like that that
there's anything wrong with that. I'm just sure they must
They either must they must be in the same circle.
The same circle lovely and clearly can cause a lot
of stuff.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, I guess I would be like, if we're in
the same circles, then we would know about who we're dating.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Did they say that they didn't know? It sounds like
they that the sister knows.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Oh yeah, I think she's saying she knows because it's
like the first time she thought it was a coincidence.
But then the third time it might be it could
be like a, I don't know, it could be a
dynamic if I want what you have. Yeah, And this
is my way of kind of acting that out. Yeah, one,
I think you do have to talk to your sister
be like baby, I'm noticing a pattern here, Like.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
I just want to like call it out, like it's
starting to feel a little bit uncomfortable, like yeah, dated
a lot of my exper or like like what is
going on? And maybe she'll be like, I don't know,
it's just weird. It's maybe I think we don't know
what she's.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
She'll be like, well, she could be like, well, it's
like you vetted them and so like I feel like
they're they're great.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
I don't know why you grow up with them. That
is interesting. I think I feel that way if it
was anybody, if like a friend of that ye like whoa,
what do you?

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, because it's like if my friend dated somebody, unless
it's like which there are those one offs where it's like, oh,
we actually are a better fit than y'all are, and
maybe our relationship wasn't as deep, then I'm like, okay,
understand that. But if it's like consistently that like you're
picking up the leftovers. It does feel pointed. Yeah, so
as a sister, I would definitely talk to your sister
and be like, Yo, what is this? Do we need

(37:15):
to have a conversation? Yeah, And then also I think
setting you'd think you wouldn't have to say this to
your sister, but maybe you do, which is like, I'd
appreciate it if you just like didn't date my exit.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
If it's like older or younger.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah, like if it's the younger sister doing it, or if.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
It's the older it feels like that would be somehow,
could be somehow significant.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yes, yes, something in the dynamic.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Messy messy.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Okay, well we ate that up too. This says my ace.
Bestie and I used to be disaster sisters together. Lovely.
I hate that, Sneaking wine into movie theaters, getting kicked
out of the bars for dancing on tables one time,
even peeing in a bush on the way home because
we couldn't make it inside. I've definitely done that. Yeah,

(38:03):
of course it was ridiculous and it was perfect and
it felt like our own little world. Now, with jobs,
relationships and everything else, we barely have time to get brunch.
How do you keep that wild Rider Die friendship energy
alive as adulthood makes everything more responsible? Have you? I
mean I've definitely dealt with this where it's like you're
as you get older and there are more things your
adult friendships that you used to like be out every

(38:26):
night with each other are now like i'll see you
in three weeks. Like I'm like I'm scheduling hangs like
weeks in advance. Yeah, how are you How do you
navigate the shifting of your friendships?

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Well, I mean I would I could perfectly equate this
to like Alana and I who brought City with Like
we were that. Yeah, a lot of the show was
like stemming from uh, like the messy shit we got into. Yeah,
and then we'd like literally use that or amplify that
story in some way. Yeah, we're like I'm mostly in La,

(39:02):
she's mostly she's in New York, and like I'm a
New yorkle lot. But it's always scheduling it and it's like, oh,
it's such a different thing. Not bad, but it's like
I find it's like longer ketchups, like it's were significant,
more intentional, which like is just I think part of

(39:23):
getting older and like being busy and not. I don't know. Also,
just like in my twenties, I was just like out
so much like nothing. I wasn't like but maybe I
want to wake up early and you know, yeah a
long day. You know. It was just like my priorities
were different. So it's like fitting that into the priorities.

(39:46):
It's just like it's just a different kind of friendship,
but that still has like those roots there. So you
like reminisce about those crazy bush people.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Sure, small, but yeah, and then you like maybe you
like you schedule a vacation together. Yeah, like a friendship vacation.
I'm really into those. But I think it's like to me, uh,
scheduling sex. Some people are really against it, and I'm like,
if you want to have sex in your busy relationship,
you might have to schedule it. And to that point,
we've we were talking to doctor Vanessa Merrin last season

(40:17):
and she was like, you're in your early stages. That's
what you're doing. Like like when we plan a date,
we know what that date means. Yeah, so you're always
scheduling it. But there feels like a fantasy that we
all want, which is that we should just all be
readily available. And I think that it's like you no,
getting older means there's more responsibilities, and so the things
you actually care about have to go on your calendar

(40:37):
if you really care about it, and then you just
like make that Like I just had hung out with
my best day on last night, and then we've plans
to like do like a night out called a tour,
like I have a different kind of hang on Friday,
and it's like okay, cool, and we booked it like
three weeks ago. It's like, wait, we'll do We'll plan
our twirls. Yeah, a plan a night to just like

(41:01):
you know what we're going to tonight. Yeah, like we're
going to just go out and like see where it goes.
It's the best, but it is, it is, I will
say it is an adjustment. So it's like it's like
grieving the ability to have the easy access to each other,
but then moving forward with Okay, this is what we
have to do to maintain the bond, because the bond
is important.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
And also what you said of like the planning vacation
or like planning the thing, like when you were in
that stage, you maybe couldn't do that butn't afford to
do the vacation where you're like spending a weekend together. Yes,
now you can like afford to do different things that
are like the different is also something you couldn't do.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Then you know what I think about when I think
about that is being able to go to a Beyonce concert. Yeah,
couldn't afford.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
It, but no, you could like do those big things
that you like were like, oh, if only we could
do like you talked about that. Now you can.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Now you can. Yes, So now we spend you know,
are we spend our time significantly doing something else as
opposed to just having go to the bars because the
Lord knows, I hate the bars? Do you like bars?
What's your going out vibe? Like? Where do you like
to go out?

Speaker 2 (42:06):
I don't like the bars here?

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Yeah, like kW York are much better, but.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
I guess like I like going to I feel like here,
I'm mostly going to like dinner boring, I like but
like house.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Oh I love a house.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
Like I love a dinner, And then I feel like
here I'm into like like last thing we had two
friends over, like cooked and wine, like especially.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
If you're hosting these people leave, you're like bed is
right there. I love is also getting older. I want
to be close to my.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
B Oh, it's so getting older. And I'm like, but
I don't do I don't like go hard anymore.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
What's the last time you went hard? And what was it?
Do you remember, like the last time you like just
like twirled. What's the last time I twirled? I feel
like it was a month ago? Was it? It wasn't Pride.
I went to like so I went to like some
kind of warehouse party. Oh, which was always fun. It's

(43:06):
always fun because it's a night of like, you know,
a little substance, a little and then you're just like
on the dance floor. Oh, you know what it was?
We went it was my friend and I went to
this warehouse party and then Donna Summer started to play.
Is that Donna Summer? And then we were like really
feeling like Donna Summer was present with us, and so
we just this like Donna Summer is here with us

(43:29):
right now. And that was a lovely a lovely twirl.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
I mean, I went out, We went out. We went
to the Dyke March in New York. Was like so
last but I still am like I'm not going where
I used to.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Go and we don't need to because who are trying
to prove ourselves to me?

Speaker 2 (43:49):
I will say the last name. Last night I did
that was like my wedding. Oh like a party?

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Tell can you tell me? Like what was the like
what did y'all plan for? Because my friend's getting married,
uh in France next year Mayo Mayo may and fries
but will there be Mayo? And but so because it's

(44:20):
in France, he's like planning like a whole week. And
so he was like telling us about there, like creating
all these like party fund moments, and so did y'all
like plan like uh an after afters.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Oh yeah, we got married in Brooklyn, Oh my god.
And there was like a state of emergency. Then the
day before it reigned more than it's ever rained, and
so moved the actual ceremony inside to where the after
party was going to be. Huh, but it was like
the best. Everyone was like smushed together and it like
ended up being like better than we would have ever imagined.

(44:54):
And the party like was in this room that no
one could from, like where the ceremony everyone came downstairs
and then the food was in like this big area.
It was at this place called Public Record and so
I think for the majority of the people they were like,
I guess there's not going to be in a dancing
And then and then we had this like my wife

(45:17):
is friends with this band, the Westerlies. They're like horns,
and they came out playing Sir Duke and like marched
us into this like wood, Like Public Records is a
venue music venue, not very big, but there's like a
room with like no windows like disco ball and like

(45:40):
Marsha's in there. And then we had my friend MADFX,
who was the music supervisor on broad City DJ, and
it was like it was like people were like slop
talk about the messy. People got like messy, just like
dance party, like dance party. And then we an after

(46:00):
party upstairs and then it was like we had like
pizza because we were like, of course we need like
everyone's so trying, but I'm like, man, I want another night,
like just the way the dance party was. Yeah, you
don't get that.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
You don't get that.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
I like weddings it is and like.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
That's why shout out to whoever's playing a wedding, just
like make sure you have an after party, like because
people really want. After all the cute stuff, we want
to dance. I want to celebrate. I love a party
where there's like joints on the table, you know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
We didn't have joints, but there was stuff. But I'm
not a cigarette smoker. Yeah, but like my wife at
like a thing like that is and she I love
the temporary platter with like these like I don't know cigarette,
like the long cigarettes on the platter, being like, oh
I love I like bad it's like three in the mornings.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
I don't either, but like if it's three am and
we've had some.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Joints, we're like people, I'm like, you're smoking, okay.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
Especially like a Corilla Deville cigarette. That's what I want. Okay, baby,
I hope you're enjoying the episode. I'll just drop it
in here to plug a couple things. Don't forget that
if you are in New York, I will be performing
live at ars Nova my stage show. It's a solo
ish play called Hoh Church h E a u X

(47:30):
and we run October eighth to November eighth. Get your
tickets at brandoncock Goodman dot com. Okay, last question. This
one says Uh. When I started writing and drawing, I
didn't realize I was actually working through my queerness before
I had the courage to say it out loud. Looking back,

(47:51):
my art has always been the place where I tested
out versions of myself that I was too scared to
show the world. How do you use your art to
explore parts of your identity and how does embrace those
parts end up feeding back into the art you make?
I feel like you are you have a lot to
say about that.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
I love this person's journey. Yeah, what a great way
to like use your art and yeah, yeah it I
it's interesting, like I went to art school, So I
went to school for like drawing and painting for college,
and I don't I think I was more like into

(48:28):
sort of some things were more abstract, but it was
sort of like memory, yeah, and a lot of like
maps and sort of like landscaping things that I don't
feel like I was going to like another level of
emotion in like that two D art.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
But then if I look at like my art now,
which is not really I'm not talking about the drawing
and painting. I mean, without a doubt, I'm like using
my own personal experience to one just like observe the
world and try to like show back what I think
is funny, ridiculous, frustrating, upsetting. And then like with each project,

(49:10):
I think it's it's like case by case dependent, whether
it's like a self generated thing or a thing I'm
like coming onto. I think one, and I'm like gonna
ramble here one. I think if I'm coming onto a thing,
like I'm doing this, I'm like adapting a book and
I love the book, and so much of why I
wanted to do it was because I'm like, they're things

(49:34):
I want to like, things I want to explore, and
while they might not be like my own experience, necessarily
it's like in there, and so that's like what I
go after. And then in my own stuff, I mean,
i feel like I'm constantly exploring, like all different aspects

(49:55):
of myself. Is that the question what do you think?

Speaker 1 (49:58):
I think I feel like that's what art is for
in its purest form. I think that sometimes I've been
saying we get confused because of capitalism and like we
need to sell things or whatever. So like when art
becomes your livelihood, it becomes a trickier thread to pull out. Yeah,
but at its core, like art is about you reckoning

(50:21):
with things right and like figuring out what you feel
about the world, what you feel about yourself, you feel
about yourself inside of the world, the world inside of you,
and so there's I think at its best, it's like
that's exactly what you should be doing to like figure
out who you are. Like I when when I started comedy,
I started doing this character named Latrelle Latrell Levin Lebron

(50:45):
Lucius Lacrosse the tape You're like Day Jackson, who was
a talk show host. I would say, like, if Oprah
and Wendy Williams had a baby, it would be Latrelle.
But like, now I look back at him, I was like, oh,
I was wrestling with my gender identity. Like it was
this character who war make up but like also wore
like boy clothes but also like had you know, was

(51:06):
super fem and some people at the time it was
like right before drag race really started, so we were like,
you're doing drag. What's a bad drag? I was like,
I'm not doing drag. This is just like but now
I look back, it was like, oh, I was reckoning
with gender, like gender identity and like queerness through this
this character, and so I don't know, I think it's
such a beautiful place to figure yourself out. And I

(51:26):
would also say if you do end up making your
livelihood around art, that it is important to have like
kind of two buckets. One is the livelihood version of
your art, but then one is just like make some shit,
to make some shit.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Yeah, yeah, like where it doesn't have to be like
your opus.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yeah, it's just like your shit. And like, I don't know,
I feel like you probably you'd probably be like this
because a friend of mine always joke like every time
we pick up a hobby, where then like, well, how
do we turn that into.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
My wood carving? I could? Yeah, yes, the pots, the pots.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
It's like no, like just like do something I know
to do it and not have to like have an
end goal to it.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
I think it's so crucial.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
Yeah, yeah, so interesting. It is like the culture is like,
but how can you make a like a side hustle?
Yeah it or this is the next thing. It's like
it's we're very trained like that.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Yes, yeah to your I'm wearing the shirt from your
program Prelude which obsessed obsessed with your mentees. Oh my god.
It was so much fun. But that's what I felt like.
I was talking to a lot of them in that
individual is like, what is the thing that you want
to do, and like, stop worrying about what the industry says,
because the industry changes its mind every day.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Every hour, every hour, it really is. It's like and
then I think the things that stick out and the
artists that stick out are the people who are like
clear point of you, you're not necessarily thinking about, like
to to exactly what you're saying. What the industry is
like looking.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
For yeah that day.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Yeah, because it's never going to be sustainable.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
It's like to the to like as as basic as
they'll be like, oh, no one wants features right now,
they all want TV. I'm like, okay, that's not a thing.
That's not a thing. So I'm like, if you want
to write a feature, write the feature. If you want
to write a TV thing, write the TV thing. If
you want to paint a canvas, paint it. Because I
think if it's authentic to you, which we can also

(53:31):
unpack that word, but if it's like, if it's what
you're passionate about, then you'll do it the way you
want to do it. And then that's what actually cuts
through all the noise, not you painting by numbers, right,
because I'm sure, actually I'm sure this experience, like right,
once broad City came out, I can't I'm sure there
are a bunch of writers who were told we want
another broad City. Like when Abbot Elementary came out. The

(53:53):
first meeting I have is like, we want an appo
Elementary and you're like, babe, you.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Have It's there, It's there, Yeah, it exists.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
So for an artist, how devastating to like cut yourself
to try and recreate somebody else's art as opposed to
I meant to, as supposed to spending time creating what
you want.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah. It's such a hard like needle to thread though,
because you are, like you go to meetings and they're like, well,
what are you working on? And this is like, well,
this is what we want, this is what we need
right now. Yeah, so like we need this little piece
of our little puzzle slate whatever. Yes, and then that's
constantly changing, so it's it's a Yeah, it's a really

(54:37):
hard balance because I like knowing what's going on. Yeah,
but like I guess everything that's that I've had, like
actually be made. Yeah, was not upon a prompt of
what was like wanted or needed.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Right right, Apart from Broad City or League or any
of the things that we've seen, I would maybe say,
like the things we haven't seen from you, what has
been the most impactful art that you've made, or maybe
not the most impactful, but what an impactful piece of
art that we've not necessarily seen, but like was important
for you to do for yourself.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
I actually like I wrote this film. There's a lot
of things I've written that like I haven't been able
to make yeah, or pitch or whatever. But I wrote
this film. I'm still trying to make it. But it's
the thing that I'm like, you know, you like push
these boulders up the mountain and you're kind of trying
to like keep all of them going to like switch
over here and like keep that push that one up

(55:35):
and then you're like come back down. Yeah, this feature.
And I haven't like really worked as like a writer
director in the film space yet. And so I wrote
this film a couple of years ago. And I read
a short story in in like the thick of COVID
like twenty twenty called go like this Okay by Laurie Moore,

(55:58):
who is like a prolific American short story writer, and
it's I was so depressed and I was like I
was like alone for like the first seven months of COVID,
me and my dog, and I was just like in
a very low moment. Everyone was, but it was just
like it was just bad. It was just bad for me.
If you're so yeah, it was just like okay, yeah.

(56:21):
And I read this short story about a woman who
has stage four breast cancer and it's a very funny
short story too. Laurie Moore is very funny. She has
stage four breast cancer and decides to end her life
before she has to go through all this stuff. And
it was like quite ironic that I was like, this
is bringing me back to life, this woman's story about

(56:43):
ending hers. I was like, this is going to be
the I want this to be my first feature. I
want to write it, I want to direct it. This
is going to be it. I got the rights and
I wrote it like sort of. I wrote it right
after we produced we made League, like League came out
twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, and the strikes happen

(57:03):
and anyway, I changed it a lot It's about this
woman in her seventies who struggled with depression and her
whole adult life. She's been divorced about five years, she
has adult children, and she finds a lump in her
breast and she's like, well, that's it, obviously, that's it. Yeah,
And the doctor's like no, like you're Jill, You're okay, yeah,

(57:26):
And she's like but it's like quite a mass, like
are you sure and it's and he's like, you have
a lot more life to live, and she sort of
realizes that she has control, like she could make the
decision to end her life, and so she decides that
she's going to end her life in six months, and
she tells her friends and family and they're like up

(57:47):
in arms, as you would be, like like what are
you doing? Like no, like you'll figure this out. And
then they also respond very selfishly like how did you
tell I'm the last person you told? We're like there's
just like all the distractions that are like very funny
and like sort of approving her her thesis of like
this disconnection she's felt with her whole community. And then

(58:08):
over the six months, she starts to live very differently
because with the end in sight, everything becomes more and
she becomes connected with everybody and she you know, everything
is brighter because this is like she knows there's an end.
She has low period still and during those six months

(58:30):
her community becomes really supportive and it like snowballs out
of control. So it's like she can't not like it's
so it's like it's like it's real dark. It's very
dark comedy about this woman's decision, and like, you know,
it's a it's technically about someone ending their life, but

(58:52):
like it's really about life, and so that's what I
want to make the most.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
You know, I love it about that too. Is we
have such a problem talking about death culturally.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
I mean, I've gotten a lot of pushback where it's like,
how what will you say when this comes out? And
I'm like, well, isn't every other movie about someone killing
someone else?

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Literally?

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Why is that? Why is literally every movie though almost
every movie like someone is killing somebody multiple people? That's okay?
Why why is that? Like listen, this is not a
pro suicide film. It's examining that feeling. Why is that

(59:38):
like so taboo? And I know suicide rates are very high.
That's a huge concern of mine. But like I think, actually,
if we were to examine it more talk about it,
it would actually become something we could talk about. Yes,
and you could tell someone I've been feeling this way.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
It's the silence of everything.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
It's crazy, it's like a shame. Yes, it's wild to me.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Yes, absolutely, it's It's honestly why I want to do
this show because it's like, these are the things that
we refused to talk about, but if we did, it
would actually not feel as intense, and you would you
realize that you're not alone. It's like it's the isolation
that really puts us all in our pressure cooker because
we feel like we're the only ones going through it.
And not in an egotistical way, but just in a

(01:00:20):
like we're taught to take care of ourselves, pull yourself
up by a bootstrap, like there's ye, we're not taught
a lot about community.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Community is such a I'm not saying it's a new word,
but like it's had a resurgence, but America itself is
so individualistic. Yeah, and then that that teeters into isolation,
and then we have these rates and things that are
astronomical because no one has space to talk about it
and say, oh, yeah, I feel that too.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Yeah. It's been really like this weird like process where
I'm like, I some feedback I've gotten, I'm like, well,
I can't dare put this into the world, but I'm
I really do believe it would be like why are
is more? Yeah? Why are we not discussing this?

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Yeah? Also, like the one guarantee is death, however it happens,
and I keep saying we would benefit from a grief practice,
like culturally knowing what that looks like, yes, and how
to navigate it. Did you watch Dying for Sex?

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
It was the first time that I and we I've
talked to a friend talked to a friend of mine
about it and we were like, this show is so good,
but I'm sure it's not getting the same attention because
it's death, female pleasure, and cancer. It's like this trinity
of these things that we as a culture don't want
to talk about. But for me watching it, it was
like the first time that I saw for myself like

(01:01:52):
a real conversation about death and inside of a friendship too.
It's like, Oh, how powerful with it be to have
more representation and more stories because this is obviously what
people are going through.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
And to just be like like we like live more
when we're reminded we are gonna die. Yes, like we're
all gonna die. Hey, hey, sorry today we're gonna and
it's like this, Yeah, it's like also when a show

(01:02:27):
is like you know, it's so devastating that she has
to go through that process, she's so young and all this,
but like yeah, it's like we only have those conversations
when it is so dire, yes, and it's it's so
interesting that we are also like riveted by like all
the shows right now where it's like someone died, who died?

(01:02:50):
They died, It's like like who did it? What? Why not?
Why can't we be like as I mean, obviously it's
not as as ex but it's like I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
It's like it's like as interested as wild, probably because
it's I mean to go down this whole rabbit hole,
but I'm so excited to. It's probably because it's too personal, right,
Like people can uh a true crime situation, you can go, oh,
I'd never do.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
You're like I'm not gonna go to like I'm thinking
white lotus. You're like you're like no, one's getting murdered
at my trip.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
You know, it's like it's so like it's so like fantastical,
but the more real things, you're like, oh that actually
that's real, Like that mirrors my feelings or that's an experience,
and so then it becomes a thing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
Oh no, I don't want to see that. I want
to escape, but I can't see that. I can't wait
bring that back. It's coming back. Yes, yes, I'm very excited.
I love how I love how it takes years for
it to come, Like it's so perfect, the lore.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Of it is so it's so good.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Before I let you go. This is especially exciting because
when I was in after college, Brought Brought City was like,
I know you hear this all the time, but I'm
gonna just say it, like it was a really important show,
particularly to what we were just talking about, Like and
I think it gave permission to those of us who
didn't feel like we fit into like the Sex and

(01:04:15):
the City. No.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
I love that because like it also, you know, when
Alana and I are together, we like often talk about
that experience because like it was like for me, finding
Alana allowed me to like like we were like so
actually like before the show. Yeah, I was like the
person that really allowed me to like love myself and

(01:04:44):
be myself. Yes, we like put that into the show,
but both of us were like really figuring ourselves out
as we made it. Yes, and so so much was
like in it, and everyone that made it with us
like same thing. We were like, we're all like we
were like still like very much growing up.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Yeah, and it was such a gift to have that blueprint,
not just as an artist, but as like humans also
at that age of figuring yourself out and like not
feeling alone. And I think that's that's your Your badge
as an artist is that you create work. You clearly
you are interested in creating work that makes people feel
seen and us alone.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Yeah that's a big pillar.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Yeah yeah, Well thank you for being here.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Well, thank you of course, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
Well you know we are hose here, but hose with heart.
So before we part ways, let me speak to yours
And what an incredible first episode. I'm so excited and
grateful and just honored that Abby agreed to be on
the show. Oh so, if you watch the video, we
sit on a couch and I have some stuffed animals

(01:06:07):
that are actually stuffed genitals, and so there's a little
stuffed penis, and there's a stuffed uterus. Uh, and so
Abby helped me name them. Uh, there's also a little
crochet penis, and so we named uh the the sort
of bigger stuffy penis Richard, and we named the universe

(01:06:31):
Sam and we named the little tiny penis sebastian As.
I'm just very happy. But also, why why is the
short name for Richard the nickname for Richard dick Dick?
This is making no sense. Yeah, I understand shortening names love,

(01:06:53):
but Richard shortened name is rich That's breaking my brain. Also,
Abby being a kibal historian, Wow, wow, wow, incredible, what
a moment. The big thing that we talked about using
your art to discover who you are. I think art,
for all the artists out there, I think it's totally

(01:07:15):
okay to I don't just think it's totally okay. I
think it's necessary to put yourself in your art. You know,
when you start to try and make art like other people,
where you start to try and copy other people, it
obviously loses its authenticity. But art being a space to explore,
and by the way, all of your art doesn't need

(01:07:36):
to be consumed. Everything that you write, everything that you build,
everything that you make, doesn't need to be consumed. But
make it anyway because it's your way of processing. There
is a Tony Morrison quote that I love that I'm
going to share with you. Writing is really a way
of thinking, not just feeling, but thinking about things that

(01:07:57):
are disparate, unresolved, mysterious, problematic, or just sweet. And so
just this idea that you're creating and your artistry is
a way to discover who you are. It is a
way sometimes to just be thinking about it, you know,
just because you made some like like, I'm not gonna
be I call them pots, but they're bowls. I make

(01:08:18):
no pots. I make bowls, although I guess pottery people
do y'all call bulls pots? Is that why I called
it a pot? Anyways? You know, like I was like,
I'm not gonna try and go sell these pots. You
know that that art is just for me. I don't
know what I was thinking about when I made it,
but you know, sometimes things are just for us, y'all.
Of course, kind of the meat of our conversation hard

(01:08:41):
pivot is death is the one guarantee. And I really
loved having the opportunity to talk about death, and I
texted Abby after just like I don't always get to
have that conversation, and I just think it's important to
normalize those conversations because the one guarantee is that we
will all die, and so having a relationship to it,

(01:09:04):
knowing how to talk about it. I'm not saying that
that will make it easier when you know, death comes
to the door, and you know, not just our personal door,
but when people around us, when we lose the people
that we love, it's not going to make it easier,
but to not feel alone in a whole church. I
talk a lot about my grandmother, and I was the

(01:09:27):
last person other than possibly a nurse, but in terms
of the family, I was the last person with my grandmother,
and I actually, you know, I don't I forget. I
think there's a play called Carnival around the central Figure
that I happened to like have read and was like
part of, like a production of shortly before my grandmother passed,

(01:09:51):
and there's a piece in that script where the main
character tells the dying character that it's okay for them
to go. And so I had that my brain and
when my grandmother was on her deathbed. I said that
to her. I said that we would be okay and
that it was okay for her to go, and then
sure enough she passed that evening. And I guess I

(01:10:14):
bring all that up to say that I didn't have
anyone to really talk about that with. After you know,
my grandmother was definitely I grew up with her, so
she was more of a mother than a grandparent. And
I didn't have anyone to talk about that with. And
I can only imagine that many of us, as we
navigate people that we've lost, we don't always feel like

(01:10:39):
we have someone to process that with beyond just a therapist,
but people in our life. Because you're like not trying
to be a downer, you're not trying to dampen the mood.
But there's got to be an in between, right Like,
there's got to be space for us to talk about
this thing that happens all the time. And that is

(01:10:59):
the one guarantee. One of my favorite books, if you're
looking for one around death, is Joan Didion's The Year
of Magical Thinking. What a I could cry thinking about it?
What a gorgeous book. That might be the wrong word
as it's a retelling of her experience losing her husband
and the year after his death. But it was a

(01:11:23):
healing book, it was nourishing and so again really loved
having that conversation with Abby. And grief, by the way,
is not just about physical death, right. Sometimes we lose jobs,
sometimes we move to a new location, whatever those transitional
moments are as a culture, and if we don't do

(01:11:46):
it as a culture, then hopefully we can do it
as individuals, which is benefiting from how do we grieve
and what is the way that we grieve? My grief practice,
I don't have an official one, but if I were
to have one, for sure is picking a movie that

(01:12:08):
I love that I've seen many times. So it might
be watching sys Direct too. It might be First Wive Club,
it might be The Lion King. But giving myself something
cozy and comfy. Also music helps. I usually know in
the moment what kind of music I want to listen to,
but it might be like R and B. So it's

(01:12:29):
like an Anita Baker, or it could be a Brandy.
It's usually something like that I grew up listening to,
because again it's the comfort. And then journaling, writing is
a big part of my grief, just like getting it
out so that it doesn't feel as big, because sometimes
when it lives inside of you it feels unmanageable. And

(01:12:50):
so for me, writing is my as how I do
my art. But for you it might be painting, it
might be cooking, it might be pottery. You know, what
are the ways that you make something? Again? Thinking is
a way of writing, is a way of thinking. Creating
as a way of thinking. And so having that part
of the grief practice. And finally, Evey said, we live

(01:13:13):
more when we're reminded that we're all gonna die, messy
piece of advice. And I think that that that's so
true and so true, and so how can you live
more today? If today was going to be your last day,
who would you want to make sure knows that you

(01:13:33):
love them? Who would you say I love you to
right now? Who would you text the hello to? What
is the thing that you would do? What is the
thing you would make sure you got done? What was
the thing that you would make sure you said? Yeah, messy, messy, messy,
I love you, I adore you. Let me do a

(01:13:55):
little a little homekeeping for you. Get out of here.
Of course you can me on Instagram at Brandon Kyle Goodman.
You can find me on subsec Brandonicyle Goodman dot subseac
dot com. You can be a free subscriber, but if
you become a paid subscriber you get even access to
mor Goodies, So not just the livestream Messy Mondays at Night,
but also essays, group chats, this work that I love

(01:14:18):
to do so much. Make sure you subscribe to this podcast,
follow the podcast that tell Me Something Messy because you can,
and Instagram. Okay, and if you are in New York,
please come check out O Church h G a u X.
It is my live stage show and we run on
until November eighth. For tickets, you can go to Brandonicyle
Goodman dot com. I love you so much.

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Episode Transcript

Host

Brandon Kyle Goodman

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}How Facing Mortality Inspires Better Art w/ Abbi Jacobson