Leave Feeling Joy w/ Joel Kim Booster

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I met the straight cup recently and they were telling
me how they met and they were both partnered at
the time, and they were like, but we didn't cheat.
We never hooked up, we never touched or did anything inappropriate.
But we were texting every day and facetiming on our
lunch breaks and going to movies together and like all
these things. And for me, I was like, see, I
could give a shit who he fucked, but if he

(00:20):
was texting someone every day and facetiming them and going
to movies, I would write, that's way more. That's way
more of a violation to me.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
You know what, This is a safe space to talk
about relationships, love and sex. Now, let me tell you
something messy. This is my PSA. My PSA is every
time you don't beg a hotie. I really do believe
that it's a blessing from the ancestors, because oh am
I gonna say this. I am going to say it.

(00:54):
Sometimes they'd be pretty and also crazy. Okay, I just
want to say, I don't know who it is. Sometimes
y'all be going after that person who sound pretty, and
a lot of times them pretty ones are all so crazy, okay,
And I mean that respectfully, but it is true. Like
I had a friend of mine who said I was
being friendly with somebody and then my good friend said, huh,

(01:16):
that one's a little shit and I was like, okay,
say less and was that person also pretty absolute? Because
there is a truth to this. Sometimes I think pretty people, wow,
I don't know on this show, I really be ragging
on the hotties, but they be thinking that they can
get away with anything. Or it's because it is the
same thing with the bad kissers. Right when I tell
y'all how people can't kiss. If you've been ht your
whole life, you don't have to kiss. It's the same

(01:37):
thing if you been pretty your whole life, you be
getting away with things. So people don't tell you, right,
because people are in such shock with how beautiful you are,
they don't be telling you. I did I tell you
all about this? Well, there was I had a friend
who was in this hot ass this hot like like
fucking not a ten girl. It was like it was
a ten thousand, Okay, this was not like you saw
him and you were like, this is a walking sculpture,

(01:59):
as if is it the David Michaelangelo he made the
David if it was is if that David came to
life that kind of pretty where you like me, like
straight guys would be like, damn, that's it, that's it.
That's an attractive man. Okay. So fine, and so we
so we saw all the photos and then we finally
met the dude, and the dude was dull. The dude
was dull and had a and had a crazy look

(02:22):
behind the eye. I'm telling you, I said to her,
I said, get out. I said to my friend girl,
get out, get out, get out, get out. I don't
like the way his eyes are shifting. I know he's pretty,
but he's a little little you know, a little just
little's off. And I just I just want to tell
you that when you were at the club or you

(02:42):
at the bar, okay, and you see that pretty person
and you're like trying to get up with them and
they don't pay you any time of day, thank your ancestors,
thank the lucky stars, because that person, nine times out
of ten, that's a crazy that's a crazy math. But
I don't have any evidence to back it up, but

(03:03):
nine times out of ten crazy absolute that's insanity, okay.
And I'm saying that respectfully and out of love and
all the things. And if you are pretty worse in
listening to this and you've been pretty all your life.
I'm not saying somebody who's had transformation, because you you know,
you understand what it is to be on the outside,
to be a misfit, and you figured whatever and whatever.

(03:24):
But if you have always been like, oh, that's a
pretty baby, that's a pretty that's pretty, you know, pretty versave,
that's pretty. You always were pretty, which is wild. If
you you know, respect to you, please be in therapy, okay,
if you have been pretty like that, if you if
you were giving that, if you've always been like the

(03:44):
face card has never ever declined, like that card puberty
that never saw pimples twenties just jaw chisel thirties forties
used to if that face card hain never ever declined.
You know who you are, because this will also say
pretty people know that they're pretty. They they they're not

(04:05):
they know it, okay. The ones who don't know are
the preeople who weren't always pretty, right that they like,
you know, did their whatever and now they're like, oh
now I address well and now whatever, and I got
a little skin carefutine now, But the ones who've always
really you know what fuck you are? Are you in therapy?
Are you in therapy? Are you in therapy? If you
not in therapy, this.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
Is yours sign. Okay, go to therapy because you know
you're you are You're different. Oh okay, you're different.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
You're You're just different. You're different, You're different, you process
things differently, and sometimes the way you process things is
a little chaotic for the rest of us. And so
do us a favor. Do us a favor and go
to therapy. Okay, a group therapy, solo therapy, whatever, therapy.
Find you a therapist. And if you can't find a

(05:03):
therapist right now, find you It won't find you a podcast.
It's not gonna be this podcast. This one is. I'm
not gonna be able to help you with that. But
but find you a nice little mental health podcast. Find
you something that forces you to reflect, force you to
think about how your actions affect others, how you impact
others with your with your existence. You know what I'm saying. Okay, Okay, y'all,

(05:27):
don't write me no messages. I'm not even gonna give
you the email addressed to fright me. Don't worry me nothing.
I know this is a controversial hot take, but I
said what I said. By the way, welcome to the show.
This is telling me something messy. I'm your host, Brandon
called good man. Some people call me messy mom, but
you can call me credit karma. Okay, cause your face
card don't work here? Yes, what is your compassion score?

(05:50):
Your curiosity score? What's your communication score? Your face card
does not work here, bitch. Okay, let's get the jill started.
You know what that means. It is time for I
guess now, while they get situated, we will get our
Messikiki started with a ho manifesto. Repeat after me aloud

(06:10):
or in your head. Grant me the serenity to unpack
my shame, the courage to heal, the wisdom to know
that sex is not just about penetration, the audacity to
advocate for my pleasure and boundaries. The strength to not
call my ex that fuck boyfuck girl, or fuck bay,
for it is better to masturbate by myself in peace
than to let someone play in my motherfucking face. That

(06:33):
the community say who lujah. Joe Kim Booster is a
Chicago bred Los Angeles based stand up comedian, writer, and
actor who's been named one of the queer young comics
redefining American humor by The New York Times Get It Baby.
He is best known for writing and starring in Searchlight
Pictures Fire Island, Oh So Good, which, following its June

(06:56):
twenty twenty two release, went on to land him two
Emmy nomination along with a Best First Screenplay nom at
the Independent Spirit Awards. His first hour long comedy special,
Joel Kim Booster Psycho Sexual, exploring his experiences and observation
as a gay Asian American male, with commentary on identity, sexuality,

(07:16):
cultural expectations, and more, debut on Netflix in twenty twenty two.
He co produced and wrote for Big Mouth and The
Other Two, and as an actor has appeared on Loot, Shrill,
Search Party, and Sunnyside. Y'all please help me. Welcome Joel
Kim Booster.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Oh my goodness, Hello Joel, Hello Brandon Kyle, good name.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
I'm so excited my full name saying my full fucking yeah,
I'm so good.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
You know, with a name like Joelkim Booster, I feel
everyone should be afforded the same. If you got a
powerful three names.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
You gotta say the full three name.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
You gotta say that, you gotta say all three?

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Did you always? When did you decide that you were
gonna go by the three names?

Speaker 1 (07:54):
You know? It's funny. In college, in theater school, they
told me to drop the booster and just be jo
and just be Joel cam And I remember printing like
my first like headshot with my name on it, and
it looked it just looked so weird without booster. It
just like didn't fit, like it didn't have the same

(08:16):
like visual sort of impact. And so I just was like, fuck,
I'll keep it for now and maybe change it later.
And I'm so glad I did, because I can't imagine
not being Joel Kim Booster. I had this boy on
the dance floor over like two weeks ago, asked me
straight up. He was like, do I call you Joel
or Joel Kim Booster? And I was like, I was like,

(08:39):
which one seems more normal to you? Go away? Yeah? No,
I was like, in what world would I want you
to refer to me as my full name socially.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Just on the dance for Koster?

Speaker 1 (08:55):
I did? I did? I was like, you know, we
were flirty later on and I was like, I did
do the I was like, it's droll in the day time,
but when I'm dropping a load in you, So.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
That on a shirt, when I'm dropping a load in you,
let's that's a perfect shirt I use. I don't know
my full name. I decided in college. Somebody said it'd
just be Brandon Goodman and I don't know the same thing.
It just like didn't feel right. And I was like,
if Sarahanisco Parker, if that white ladies could names, so
let's go.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
She was a peer.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
I was like, y'all learn her name. Y'all will learn
my full name. Okay, wait, before we get started, let
me give you our messy mandates, so things get to
be unprocessed. Any thoughts or opinion shared have the right
to shift change today, tomorrow, or ten years from now.
And if during the key key something feels too personal
or unintentionally offends, we use the safe word foosball, which

(09:54):
gives us a chance to stop, pause, pivot, and address accordingly.
Sounding Hey yeah, I love that. Okay, cool, So we're
gonna sarty with a lube breaker. Today's game is fuck
Mary Block. How you feel about it?

Speaker 1 (10:06):
I feel great about it. I'm ready to block.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
You're ready block some things, all right? So the first
one is mary, block feet, nipples, pits.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Wow, this is easy, block feet. Get those two through
my mouth.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Okay, absolutely not. No, a pit for sure.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Now it's always icy. Have you ever actually.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
The pit?

Speaker 1 (10:35):
No? Not, that's that's maybe one area I haven't. But
I you know, I do enjoy a good lick, you know,
a good Yeah. I love the idea of the pheromones
of it all, et cetera, et cetera. And it's not
it's not it's it's like I'm sort of take it
or leave it though, you know. And I am a
deal wearer down, you know. So a lot of guys

(10:58):
are with me when I wear deyodor in it because
I want to and I and I will say to you,
having licked an armpit that has deodoran on it is unpleasant.
But I but the trade off for me is too great.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
What if I like to, I like to do it
where like hour to do it usually, But like if
I'm going to go out that night, I'll shower before
so I know it sneeze nice and clean, and then
I won't put dooda on on so that people can
lick it because then it won't be It's not too crazy.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
My partner loves my the my natural smell, and I've
heard it from others too. I just like, I don't know.
I'm a classic O g old spice boy and I
love I like that. I like the scent. I do.
I do enjoy it. I enjoy it smelling that way.

(11:49):
And then so of course marrying nipples. My nipples are
so wired it's crazy. Yes, it is, there are like
and I feel bad for people who don't have the
same issue. Me too.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
I think that nipples being sensy is so Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
I love it. I love it really like makes me like, uh, like,
goon the fuck out when you play with my nipples.
And I was actually exiting a party going into the
outside as this stranger was entering the party as I
was exiting it, and I had my shirt up and
he grabbed my nipple and didn't obviously didn't know me,

(12:29):
didn't know how sensitive they were. And it wasn't a
sexy reaction. It was a you know because like only
in a sexual context. Am I ready for it? You know?
Like yeah, and like he wasn't unattractive, but I think
he thought it was a response to him, but I

(12:53):
was like, no, you just you picked the wrong n.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
You picked the wrong baby. The buttons one that's more
sensitive than the other, I don't think. So Okay, my
pierced one is more. That's tracking. That's just science. I
would So I'm I'm gonna. I'm gonna fuck feet just
so you know. I'm gonna. I'm gonna put my dick
between those toes and put in my mouth on my
face and I'm put them on my nipples. I'm going

(13:19):
to don't make that.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
I'm shaming. I'm not shaming, but I am king shaming.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
I'm gonna fuck those feet. Baby, I'm gonna marry nipples
because that's just that's home base. And I with those feet,
like I said, on my nipples. The other day, my
partner put his feet on my face and I thought
I was gonna just fall. I love it so much.
I love it so much. It's a New York King

(13:45):
for me. It's been a couple of months since discovering it,
and I am obsessed and I'm going to you're so disgusted,
I'm going to, Uh. I love a pit, but I'm
out of the out of the three. I'll block for today.
But I do love a pit.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
It's so funny, like I will like do these like
I will meet up with guys to do like intense
dombsub like role play, and I always have to specify before.
I'm like, I got very few limits, babe, but like
no fists, no blood, no ship and no feet and

(14:23):
blood ship and it really, it really is a deal
breaker for some of these people. They like really want
you to like feet and I just cannot do it.
I have done it. I have made exceptions.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
I have made exceptions, okay, but what made the exception
was it like the guy was just like you were
just like this is.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
Sort of like you know, right time, right place, right guy,
right feet, you know because like you know, yah, yeah,
you know lately. But I don't think my Wiki feet
score is very high, which is a bummer. I have
flat feet. You know, there's very little arch there.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
I have flat feet too, there's no arch there. I'm
not going to make no money with these feet. But
but they're you know there, they stay pedicured. I was
gonna ask, what's gonna ask about feet? I forget, but
that's what Mary block places have sex rooftop steam room
alley way behind a gay bar.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
And the that's one specific Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
I'm gonna I'm gonna marry rooftop. I think, okay, there,
like God, you're closer to Jesus when you're doing it
up there, and there is a personal private sort of
like I was actually on the rooftop recently. I was

(15:47):
just remembering that. But like there is but there is
like the chance of being caught, but the but it's
very it's very like it's still very little, you know,
like you're there, but like also you're pretty secluded, you know,
like there's there's a pretty good chance that you you
can get away with it. And then I will fuck

(16:11):
a steam room, you know. And I famously have closed
out my special tail from a steam room and I
enjoy them. I enjoy the sort of it's it's sort
of a throwback like that kind of cruising, you know, like, yeah,
it's and and there is an element of we are

(16:35):
honoring our forefathers by doing it. Still, I have been
literally hosed down in a steam room before they came
in with and started to quote unquote clean. But it
was just literally they were like hosing the gaze because
we were getting too frisky in the steam room, you know,

(16:56):
well within their right. Well we were breaking the rules.
You know, got our ips. We who crunches steamer room,
which they put up the most condescensie Like you guys
could you were You couldn't handle it, You don't, you
were not, But you went to the responsibility of a

(17:18):
steam room, you fucking gaze And yeah, and so I'm
gonna block the sex and the alley. I've never done that,
and I think like for me, like I probably would
have in my twenties, back when I had roommates it
was hard to host and we were all sort of
on that level. But now that just screams like, I
don't know, I in this climate, it's the last thing

(17:40):
I need to be doing out in the public.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
You know, like yeah, yeah, no, same, same, same I
mean I did it in my thirties, but I did
like twice, but same same thing. Not never, no, no more.
It's not what I would choose. It was not my preference,
it was not, but it happened, you know, it happens.

(18:03):
I would, uh, I would, I would, you know, I
would marry the rooftop because that's classy to me, that's
just classy. So I'm gonna marry the rooftop. I'm a
fucking the steam room because that's what the steam room
is for. I don't care what I'll say, that is
what it's there for. And I'll block the alleyway because honestly,
like the arets and things like it was, it's not
my preference. If it's the last resort, go ahead, but
it's not my preference.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
You know, in New York, that's not even really an
option because there's only like one alleyway in New York.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
That's really true, I guess unless they're in the burrows, right,
if you're on like a mae.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
But the reason Chicago has the only reason Chicago has
alleys is because of it burned the fuck down and
no one had a place to go. So they were like,
let's think about this, and New York let's blessedly avoided
any sort of fire situation. But if they did, if
it happened.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
She's thinking, or the city thinking, so, you know, fucking underwater.
I guess, Joe, you won the game. Conditional baby. If
y'all have any prompts, you can email me at tell
Me Something Messy at gmail dot com speaking of which, Joel,
can you tell me something messy?

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, I can't tell you something messy.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
I mean already started.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, I've already said several messy things I think on
this podcast. Like that is fully on brand for me.
This past weekend, like at an after party, took a
guy into my my friend's office to eat his ass

(19:41):
and do other things. And I didn't realize that we
had chosen the exact moment when the party was basically
ending and we were in the office, no one knew
where we were and they were kicking everyone out my
part or could not find me, and it was really

(20:04):
embarrassing to like step out of his work from home
space and he was like, I'm going to fucking bed you.
We need to get out of my house.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Whoa.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
And it was not you know, there's certainly messier things
that we can get into later on in the podcast,
but that's the most recent messy thing I've done that.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
I went to an afters and we found what we
just thought was a random room to fucking turned out
it was like the owner's bedroom that we were just
like fucking in and then they walked in and then
they kind of walked back out. But it was one
of those like, oh shit, probably not the We just
thought this was a random.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Tricky with after parties, like because like I went to
I was in London on tour and I went I
had a night out where I went to three different
after parties and it was a Goldilocks situation because the
first one, like lots of hot guys, but no one
even really had their clothes off, and it was very

(21:01):
like yeah, we were yeah and like and I like
took this guy into a bedroom and again ate his
ass and then wanted to fuck him. And he was like, wait, wait, wait,
I know the owners, I don't know if they want
this to be that kind of party. And I was like, well,
then what are we doing what We're walking around like

(21:21):
like without my clothes. So it was so strange. And
then we went to a second afters which was a
mistake and we were we were asked to leave about
forty minutes in because the host wanted it to just
be his close inner circle of friends at the party
at that point. And then we went to a third

(21:43):
after party, and this party, this was we should have
gone there first.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
I knew what we were doing.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
I don't know what we were doing just the sea
of hot guys, and I talked to one of them
for the first hour that we were there, just like
both in our jock straps, just like talking, touching as
you doing the little lights shoulder touches. South African basketball player.
Oh wait, at the end of it, he just said

(22:10):
and I and like, literally there's fucking happening like three
feet away from us as we're having And I was like,
that's gonna be me in a second. And then he said,
you were so fun and interesting to talk to, kissed
me on the cheek, and then walked away. No, and
I and listen, no one owes you sex, just because
I understand that. But that's pregame behavior. You thought. The

(22:33):
vibe is nine am, and I am naked at this
at this man's apartment.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
At nine am and naked I could have been.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
And I spent for an hour telling you about my
childhood when I could have been talking around the.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
Different rooms you could have been then.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
So it was and it was even more frustrating that
I did continue to talk to him for like periodically
for the rest of the time that we were I
was there until like.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Two Wait, I'm sorry you were in the afters until
two pm the next pm. Oh yes, right, because this
is they did that in Madrid, Madrid Pride. My friends
were at these afters that started at nine and went
until like two three and then we were back at
dinner a couple.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
I mean again, in Europe, especially London, they go hard
and I have fully had a weekend there where I
left on Friday night and didn't get back to my
hotel until Sunday morning.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
Like I'm stressed.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
It's it's a little your teeth.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Where are you taking a ship? Like where are you?
What's you feel?

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Kindness of strangers? Baby? You hear community, community, community. But
the older I get, the harder it becomes uh to
do to push through and like because like when the
light like I have been in an I went to
an afters once blackout curtains are so important if you're

(23:58):
planning and after going into the daylight out, we talking
about it because I went to Brookland and the sun
was starting to come up, and he knew that would
shift the vibe in a way that you know, we
would not realize. We were cracked demons and we didn't
want that. We didn't want to see ourselves in that light. Yeah,
and so he in a just a fit and flurry

(24:18):
was duct taping sheets onto his windows.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Love love the sound of the duct tape du.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
To keep the party alive.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Hero, Yeah, I guess that sounded really fucking me up.
Though the duct tate like that would really on the sheets.
They wouldn't fall that anyways. Good on him building a fort,
building a fort for the guys. I love it. I
love that so much. Okay, should we do some messy mail. Yeah,
let's do it. As always, your submissions remain anonymous. This

(24:53):
one says, my friends with benefits has been tearing my
ass up. Drool emoji? Any tips for taking it longer?
Sometimes I tap out sad emoji as somebody who'd be
fucking how can people?

Speaker 1 (25:06):
I don't to know if he's meaning, like, is he
literally being torn apart?

Speaker 2 (25:11):
It was a drool emoji. I think it's like, yeah,
I got it. You don't do the emoji with a
fisher No, no, no, no, no, no that's not because that's
not fun. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
No, I have the same problem. Honestly, I am not
a long session kind of bottom. Like when I got him,
I like, like, I'm not a long session guy as
a bottom or top. I don't have the cardio as
a top, and I don't have the stamina as a
bottom apparently, so I don't know that I have like
a great recommendation for him. I guess I would say,
like it doesn't like I think a lot of people

(25:45):
have the mentality around sex that once the penetration occurs,
it's penetration, yes, till the end, it's not, you know,
And I think, like what you can do is you
you can pull out and like flow around and mess
around in different ways, give your stuff a little bit
of a breather, and then that's what I agreed, like

(26:05):
return to the foreplay for a moment, and then you know,
because I'm sure he needs a break too, unless he's
a long distance runner, you know.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
I mean I think every top would like a break
because you know, when you be fucking fuck it, it
is cardio, it is you're trying to last and say
I'm gonna.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
No, I mean, listen, the work for the bottom is all, yeah,
before the sex, and then the work for the top
all happens during sex.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
During the sex. I mean, yes, and that bottom, depending
on depending on that dick and the size, is doing
something right.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
No, I don't want to discount. Don't want to discount, but.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
You know we were working. But yes, it is, Yes,
it's the preparation, which is why I guess you want
You might just want to take it longer. Like for me,
I always say it takes me at like forty five
minutes for an hour to douce, and so like I'm
trying to Yeah, I know it takes me a minute.
Why it is, I don't know. I'm not the only one.
I thought it was weird. I know about it.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
This is true, but I think I think what you're
what's happening is you're actually going too deep and triggering
a second bowel movement?

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Do you think because I I let's get into it.
I thought that was the case, and like I've tried
to do the less water but like it does it?

Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, you half bull and my always three half bulbs clear,
I'm good to go. And then I do a little
dipstick test with a dilda.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
Now I think I will add this to the my hour,
which is that I am stoned and scrolling on my
phone and so I am. I am sitting on the
toilet and I'm not like going back and forth, but
I do have a friend who will literally take a
water bottle and go into the bathroom and be and
come out and be like, wait, I mean, and I'm
just like that. I I don't. I'm not blessed like that.

(27:50):
I'm just not.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
I know, it's a devil's bargain douching because I learned
recently that like, unfortunately, like I could. I remember in
my early twenties when I was first starting to bottom,
I was not prepping and was fine. I was just
sitting on dicks all over Chicago and Brooklyn, and like
it did not every was a problem. I was a

(28:13):
know my body kind of girl. And then around twenty
seven I started douching, and I found out that once
you start doushing your body, actually you can't requires it
more so, Oh wow, because you're stripping the inner lining
of the mucus in your anus.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Oh wow. So because I was in my twenties fucking
sitting on dicks, I knew Friday night, eat the pizza
earlier after and then I was I was just bouncing
on dicks. It was fine, And then it.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Was so joyous and I was really I was like
I hooked up with a twenty seven year old in
Chicago who was like, yeah, I just recently started douching,
And I said, baby, don't don't wait as long as
you can wait as long as you can wait as
long as wait until you get a reputation for painting.

Speaker 4 (28:56):
And then you know, because wait until you get a reputation,
it's too late.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
You had a most cities. That's so funny. Wait until
you're known for.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Stay away from those fucking shower attachments. Man, those really,
Oh those will go deep, those will fuck.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah. I mean that's I feel like I've heard those
are like really for fisting. Like if you if you're
trying to like yeah, then you might shower attached. Yeah.
For this anyway, for this person, I would say, uh,
play with toys honestly and like like you know, so
that you can build your your stamina. And also it
depends on the position. Like sometimes if you're fucking me

(29:44):
on my back, that's too intense, But if you fuck
me on my stomach, you can go all night and
I'm fine. So you can also play with like what
position you're fucking you in. And then sometimes you just
have to know that like a bigger you know, sometimes
if it's like you know, you're dealing with a fourteen
inch penis. That's gonna be a different your face. This
is gonna be a different battle, you know what I'm saying.

(30:05):
So you may not be able to sustain that all night,
and that's okay. I think it's like, you know, it's
like you're training your whole the same way that, like
as the top, you would train to you know, to
last longer. It's the same way I think as a
bottom that you can train to also take it longer,
which is that like you don't have to be the
gold medalist from the start. You can start to build
and practice and whatnot and that.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
And I would talk to him about it. I would.
I would communicate this. I make sure you're communicating this
to him because maybe it's a note for him too,
Like again, oh yes, just because he's got a big
old dick does not mean he knows how to use
it properly. Period Like periodication, communicate some of your this

(30:47):
discomfort when it's in the moment, when it's happening before
the sex. And uh yeah, I think people are it's
so strange, like I will let someone into my asshole,
but I feel too uncomfortable to tell them when I
like need something different. You know, it's a dichotomy.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
You framing it like that. I've never thought about that.
It's true because it's like why is communication always so hard?
And you're like, well, you are letting somebody inside you.
You should know you should be able to free to
be like, hey, let's fix this up a little bit.
It is your whole. You only get one, so make
sure they treating them right. This one says, I feel

(31:29):
like I'm settling waiting for a man to become financially secure.
I'm so curious about what you think about people's uh,
what they desire or the traits that they need in
a partner, and if finances should be something that we're
weighing as like a thing like like should we care
about the person also being like financially I guess not irresponsible,

(31:51):
but like do you need the person to be rich
in order to date them? Or like should they have.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
You know, it is one of those things that I
feel like and you know this, and I know this
because we've both been in long term partnerships, your yours
much longer than mine. The money don't matter when you're
falling in love. That's easy that's easy, and that's like
out of your control almost, but if it is, it

(32:16):
can be a relationship killer if the stress becomes to
to you know, insurmount, you know, because like, yeah, being
maintaining falling in love is very quick and dirty and easy.
Staying in love is very difficult and requires a lot
of work and a lot and and if that is
a huge sort of you know, pressure, pressure point for you,

(32:40):
then it might not be a good idea. And if
you don't think you can work through that, you know,
adds another layer. You just have to know going in
that it's gonna be even harder and that it will
require more work from you. But physically, like and emotionally.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
That's tee.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
But and you have to weigh the way that option
because like I am of the belief that if you
find somebody that you are excited to see that makes
you feel good, that there shouldn't like, don't don't waste
the opportunity because of something like money. Yeah, but understand
the implications and the and the pressure that you'll be

(33:25):
under when you're in a relationship with this person long term.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
I agree with that. Yeah, it's something you know what
I would also I would maybe look more at not
how much money they have, but like, are they somebody
that you can build with and are they going to
be ambitious? Like if you're dealing with somebody who's like
I never want to make money and I don't ever
want to whatever, and you're somebody who does, then you
might not be aligned long term in terms of building together.

(33:48):
Because right in the long term partnerships, we're now building
our life together. But if you are aligned as to
how you both want to live and where you want
to live and they don't have as much money as
you or you don't have as much money as them,
that to me is an easy not an easy but
that's that's a that's something that you can grow into, right,
Like it's like, yeah, I have goals and aspirations. I
don't have to be there now. I'm at the beginning

(34:11):
of that journey and here you are joining me, and
quite honestly, in some ways I don't know. And we're
in this industry. In some ways, it's like meeting somebody
and the both of us are like in similar financials
are near is a lot easier than like one of
us being all the way there. And then you have
to like catch up like that becomes a little trickier sometimes.

(34:34):
So I don't know, Yeah, I don't know. It's not
a deal breaker. I think I would look at the heart.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
Because like there was a huge disparity when I met
my partner in what we made because he had just
taken a job where he took a pay cut. And
I don't know, like it just we didn't make it
an issue, like it just made sense for me to
pay for a lot of things. Yeah, Like I don't.
I'm not like keeping a tally, you know, like that's

(35:00):
other thing you have to figure out about yourself and
about your partner. Is I like, if listen, there are
some people who are fully supporting their partners and they're
doing other things, domestic things to you know, pick up
the slack and make that that worthwhile a worthwhile exchange.
You just have to know yourself, are you going to
resent this person?

Speaker 2 (35:20):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (35:20):
And are you keeping that tally in your head of
like oh I paid for dinner again?

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yes? Again that's it's and.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
That that is not my vibe, And so I would
you know it just like I was, like, I make
more money, it makes more sense for me to pay
for this.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, my partner went to school, and so I was
supporting us for all of that time, and I was
we're building this thing together. Like it doesn't like I
don't care about that because we're we are building our
life together. And so if I have to pay for this,
it is what it is. And like I know that,
like if the tables were turned, that he would do
it for me. That's what I always kind of I

(35:57):
think that's where I always go is like if the
tables were turned, earned would you support me in this way?
And it's like, oh yeah, we would, so like we
are in this partnership as opposed to if you are
with somebody that you know, if the tables will turn,
they would leave you to dry then. And so I
think again it's about like who is the person you're
talking to, not how much money is in their bank account,
but like who are they? What are their values? How
do they feel about you? And if they are loving

(36:19):
you and are down to love you, Money's not the
only way that they can show their love. I'm far
more concerned about somebody how they talk to me, treat me,
how they show love to me, than how much money's
in their account. Because you know, somebody have a lot
of money in their account, and then that also I've
seen the opposite right where somebody has a lot of
money in their account and so they treat you like

(36:39):
shit because they feel like they have the power. And
it's like, I don't want to be in that relationship either.
So it really is about the quality of the person.
So you're not settling. Oh well, I guess I feel
like I'm settling waiting for a man to become financially
secure as don't wait, like, don't let that. Maybe take
that off the table, maybe focus more on the heart
of the man that you want to be with as

(36:59):
opposed to their financial security. I mean, don't you know,
like I wouldn't be with somebody who is financially irresponsible
because that then puts you, you know, like all these people.
I don't know if you're watching my lotus right now,
but you know, like you know, don't be you know,
the scamming and now I'm not telling me we own
this expensive asterisk, you know, like I want't want that partner,

(37:21):
but you know, somebody getting their shit together work. This
one says I fucked around with a coworker and now
waiting A couple of days to take a pregnancy test.
I don't really have a question about that.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
There was just yeah, I know, that's intense. God speed
to you.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
I hope you're in a blue state. Yeah, you know,
or or maybe you want this, Maybe you want.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
It, maybe you want to keep it. Maybe it's a
little office baby. Yeah, that's cute.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah, in the.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
We work, do you know if you want kids or
you talked about.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
It, We are pretty certain that we want to have kids.
Today it's up in it's up in the air, only
in the sense of like, look around, sweetheart, what are
we bringing someone into this world? And that's tough. That's
really tough to sure to justify. So yeah, I don't know,

(38:17):
but we want to We want a girl and a
boy at the same time. We want twins, and you know,
whether adopted or otherwise, you know, maybe they're not blood related,
but we just want to get one of each and
get it out of the way. Yeah, you know, movie
might as well just do two babies. It's just it's
like everyone I've talked to you who has twins is

(38:38):
like and had as previously just one child is like,
it's not that much harder. It's like the same amount
of work and yeah, you might, and you get two kids.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
I can't I listen. I can't tell you because I don't.
I see one kid and like that's a lot of work,
but two sounds like more. No, But he said it's
the twin parents are saying.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
I I think they're What they're saying, is that like
up the same amount of a night, you know, and
do you want to spread that out over you know,
eight years too kids, you know, as they grew up
or just like get it on to two years of

(39:20):
like constantly waking up two babies, you know, and then
you're over that hump and they're in school and suddenly
it's like.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah, then you're yeah, that makes sense, that makes sense.
I would need no matter what I don't, I would need. Yes,
I need a lot to help, no matter what, no
matter what, the night nurse, the day nurse, the midday nurse,
the afternoon, like I need, I need all the nurses.
This one is asking, which this is an old school question,
but like who knows? This is advice for coming out
to family, which there are so many ways to talk

(39:50):
about this, but I figured I thought this was a
really I would imagine if you're asking this question. There's
a lot of tension that you're feeling, and so I
figured let's take the time to why not answer it.
So advice for coming out to family it.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Is, I go watch Love Simon with them.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
There you.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Pull up Love Simon and and be like, there's no
reason why this is my pick? Did you feel about that?

Speaker 2 (40:16):
What do you think about?

Speaker 1 (40:17):
How my thing is is? It's so hard without a
lot of contexture to know how this person what to do,
because like it's so easy to say, like just tell them,
just be honest, be yourself. They're your parents, they'll love
you no matter what. But we know that's not the case.
And so like on one side, if I'm being really prescriptive,
I would say, get ready, are you financially stable? Do

(40:40):
you depend on your family to live? If so, like
be really sure what how they're going to react to
this before you tell them, And that's be ready, you
know too, because like I had my parents found out
I was gay, and I was out like figuring shit

(41:00):
out at seventeen. You know, I haven't taken a dime
of my parents mony since I was seventeen, and like
it it was obviously like it worked out for me,
but not ideal, you know, And so like figure out
what the safety net is first before even addressing like
the how and why and where, and then do it

(41:22):
in a place and a way that seems safe, you know,
like whether that's like in person or maybe just on
the family group chat. You know, like if that's if
that's the same, if that feels safer to you and
less like scary to you, then that's okay. Like there's
no like, it's not like proposing where like you know,
you don't want to there's a ceremony to it or

(41:45):
anything like that. Like it's just a part of life, babe,
and like you can you can pull the trigger you
know on an Instagram DM. Yeah you know, but yeah,
just just know your contingency plan beforehand and do it
safely and in a way that feels where you feel

(42:05):
safe doing it.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
I love that as the priority. Your safety is a priority.
And so like considering who your family is and you
know them better than anyone else, especially if you're queer
inside of a family that's not queer. You you know
how they respond and react to things. So considering your
safety and considering your options if you know that it
might go left and so like who are your safety

(42:29):
nets or what are your resources, and having that all
kind of laid out, I think is a really important thing.
And then I think also your advice of it doesn't
have to be in person. I love that, right, Like, yeah,
it's for you, and it sucks that we have to
come out at all. So if for you it's easier
to do it in a letter or a text or whatever,
and then do that, like, you're not gonna get extra brownie.

(42:50):
You're not gayer because you came out at the family Thanksgiving, right,
So whatever feels safest for you because it is your
you're stepping into your truth, and so whatever makes you
feel safe, I think is such solid advice. I'm glad
we answer that. That's such I didn't. I never considered
if I could go back to money.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
We've both been professionally gay. Professionally it's get paid, yeah,
you know, yeah, And I don't know many people that
are freshly out anymore because my community is so like
you know, yeah, elders.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Now, Okay, So this is my messy pick, which is
not based off anyone's submissions, But I've just been seeing
a lot of these conversations in the media with people
talking to people who are with journalists or or podcast
hosts or radio hosts talking to people who are polyamorous

(43:49):
or not monogamous and relationships, and usually it's like they're
the person asking question is monogamous and they're asking somebody
else who is not, and it all the conversations always
feel very so and flat. Oftentimes too, they're asking like
a guy who's dating like four girls, and they never
talk about like, you know, if the girls have freedom

(44:10):
or what their relationship inside of the non monogamy is
all which to say, I would like us to have
like a full you and I have like a full
a full combo full key key because we're both non monogamous.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, I think for us, like first of all, like
it's interesting. I want to specify that, like because people
always feel so attact when you talk about non monogamy.
People feel I feel like, I know, like when you
when you add when you talk about your positive experience
with non monogamy, you're somehow degrading their experience with monogamy.

(44:43):
And that's not the case. I don't think non monogamy
is better than monogamy and any way, shape or form,
I think it is all dependent on what works for
you and you're a partner. But I will say this,
I met this straight up recently and they were telling
me how they met and they were both partnered at
the time, and they were like, but we didn't cheat.
We never hooked up, We never touched or did anything inappropriate.

(45:06):
But we were texting every day and facetiming on our
lunch breaks and going to movies together and like all
these things. And for me, I was like, see, I
could give a shit who he fucks, but if he
was texting someone every day and facetiming them.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
And going to movies, I would ride.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
That's way more. That's way more of a violation of
trust than to me as someone who whose relationship to
sex is much more casual than I know a lot
of people's relationship to sex is. Yeah, and that's fine.
But like, it's so funny that I know so many
monogamous couples that just have this one line that they're like,
if we don't cross this one line, you know, and

(45:44):
they have three sixty pov on the totality of the
health of their relationship, you know, And being open requires
a lot of communication that I don't think is happening
in a lot of monogamous relationships. Kudos to those of
you who do are managed to about it. But like,
we're constantly resetting levels, we're constantly checking in, We're constantly

(46:04):
like you know, and being able to like tell your
partner like, oh that guy, I think that guy's really hot,
like and not have it be a thing or an
issue is like is so powerful and I think, like,
you know, you should be able to do that in
a monogamous relationship too, Like the exist, Like I feel
like the problem sometimes with monogamous relationships that I see

(46:27):
is that they pretend like, Okay, you've made this commitment
to someone else. That's great, And I think that's you're
doing the work to maintain that connection. And you value
sex in a different way than I do, and so
you want to keep that just between you and your partner,
and I think that's amazing. But to pretend like you

(46:47):
will never be attracted to someone else, or pretend like
you will never have, you know, sexual feelings toward anyone else.
They want to keep those that idea alive so much
that they never even talk about little crushes or like
things like that that they're they're they're experiencing, And I
think like that is when a cheating does happen a

(47:10):
lot yes time, you know, And I think like like
being able to openly communicate about like that kind of
stuff is really like a centerpiece of like the health
of our relationship.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Yeah, I think that I'm gonna echo what you said
because I know that we're walking into territory that you know,
if somebody is monogamous, it can be triggering, which is
that there's nothing wrong with monogamy. If it works for you,
it works for you, and if not monogamy works for you, great,
Like whatever, I think, everyone is allowed to do what
works for them and their partner. It is your relationships.
So whatever y'all agree to is what it is. But

(47:43):
I do think that with like traditional monogamy, the monogamy
that we've grown up with seeing on TV, movies and
maybe even in our own household, there is a fantasy
that's at play, which is the fantasy of what we're
talking about, which is that you're not ever going to
be attracted to anyone else, that you are the only
person that I have eyes for. And it's like that
isn't I may you only love you? That can be real,

(48:05):
but I do think that you're you didn't just meet
this person and stop being attractive to everybody else? Yeah right,
Like that's not real. You didn't just meet this person
and stop having sexual fantasies. If so, why you know
you're watching porn? Like you know, like you clearly there
are your sex drive is still there, or your desire
for others is still there. Whether or not you act

(48:26):
on it is irrelevant. It's relevant, but you don't have to,
but doesn't mean it's not there just because you're not
acting on it. And so there seems to be I
think a missed opportunity in terms of deepening our relationship
if we're monogamous and being able to share that. I'm
not saying I got to tell you about all my
desires and like this is what I want to do
that other person, but us just being able to acknowledge

(48:49):
I think that they're cute or I think that whatever,
oh yeah she is cute, Like just like it's a
missed opportunity to bond I think.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah. No, I mean I always say I'm my partner's
best wing man. Yeah, uh, because I am really turned
on when he is like getting hit on and like same,
and like you know, like I am because I when
he's feeling himself, because he's getting that boost, he is

(49:17):
never sexier to me and than those moments, which I
do recognize that that's not everybody, Like my husband does
not like to see it. He can hear about it,
but doesn't like necessarily see it. So I recognized.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
But I am turned on by by by it.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Yeah, our general rule of thumb too, Like I don't mind,
like I've seen him make out with other people. I've
seen him get fucked by other people. It does it.
It's all you know, gravy wavy. It's fine when I'm
gone out of town or traveling, touring, whatever. And like
he has a hookup, that's just a run of the
mill good, average to good or great even hookup. I

(49:54):
don't need to hear about it. Yeah, I don't need
to know about every little thing. But if it's something
funny happened.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Or something or.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
They did something weird, I need to know.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
I want to know about it.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
If there's a story there, share it. If the story
is we had sex, we both came and then he left.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
I don't care. I don't care. I don't care about that,
but if there's something if there's meat and potatoes.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
There, yes, then I want to know in the same.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Way, yeah, I want to know, yeah, Or if there's
something you're trying to process, because that's also where I
think I show up as a partner, like something you
experience and you're like, I have a question about this
or or I wanted to ask about whatever, Then I'm like,
I'm down to like have that. But if it's just
to tell me that you you got fucked and came
like I don't I don't care. Yeah, yeah, yeah, how

(50:42):
do y'all? How have you navigated the emotional part of
being open? Right like that? Because being open I think
successfully or being no monogamous successfully requires heightening your emotional
intelligence because we have to be able to communicate with
each other in a way that I'm anogmos's relationship. You
should be able to, but you don't necessarily have to

(51:03):
because there is unspoken like I'm your spouse and that's
what this is and that and we just like leave
it be. Whereas if you're if you are introducing more
people or other people, there has to be for it
to stay emotionally safe, there has to be more conversation.
So how did you navigate building that emotional intelligence?

Speaker 1 (51:22):
I mean we're both talkers, you know, and that is
a huge part of it. And I think like we
we had rules, like a pretty like specific set of
rules at the beginning of the relationship when we were open.
But the thing about rules is that it's so being
in an open relationship. It's so contact spased, you know,

(51:42):
because there are nights when like I could be popping
around the party second dick whatever, and he's like, thank god,
so he's off my hands. I don't have to deal
with him right now. Yeah, And then there are nights
where like the same conditions, same people, same party, same weather,
you know, everything is the same, and he just needs
me to be his boyfriend and stand by and like that.

(52:02):
And and rules don't always account for those changes in
like mood and like where you're at that day, you know,
like we sometimes we are just closed for that day
because like one of us needs that.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
Yeah, And like.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
It's all about communicating and checking in like constantly. It's
it's it's like before the hookup, we talk, during the hookup,
we talk, after the hookup, we talk, you know, smart everything,
and like are constantly resetting, and like I think for us,
like we realized that rules just like we we couldn't
rely on them to keep us like copasetic. We had

(52:42):
to just talk it out every single time. And that's
what we do, and like it's been really powerful, I think,
because like the vulnerability you have to be able to
have to talk about like some of the more like
embarrassing or problematic parts of like sex that comes up
is like it's so like it's so fulfilling to be

(53:04):
able to talk to my best friend and life partner
about that, you know, and I I have like I
don't know, like I've really changed my relationship to sex
through our open relationship because of that communication and because
of the way I'm able to process some of those
solo experiences with him.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
What was it before and what is that? How did
it transform?

Speaker 1 (53:27):
I think there was a real need for validation, and
I would do things that I didn't necessarily even want
to do sure because I needed that validation. And I
think that that is it is moved into a more
like especially because I like I just have the best

(53:50):
one right now, so I don't require the validation from
other people, you know, and so what's changed my relationships
with sex in a huge way, because like there are times,
like you know, when I'm on the road where I'm like, Okay,
this is my chance, I'm in the pocket, let's go.
And then there are times when it's like, oh wait, no,
actually now, like because it used to be like when

(54:12):
I traveled, when I was in a new city, if
I didn't get fuck, I felt like I like messed
up or like waste an opportunity. And now I'm like,
sometimes it's cool to just chill in the hotel room,
order take out and watch Bravo, Like, yes, talk on

(54:33):
that week, babe, Like so it's so great and yeah,
and so it really has like lessened the important like
it has sort of severed my connection to like and
let's be clear, Like I'm sure it's still there to
some degree. You know, everybody wants to feel good about

(54:53):
themselves and like, but I've just this sex is not
the number one thing that makes me feel good about myself.
Oh and now I'm a much happier person.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
For I think that that's so liberating. Because I think
that and I'll say that I probably have the same
experience where sex was a way to feel my worth.
And then as we became open, which then you know,
morphed into Polly. There was so much conversation happening between us,
but it also I had to also have conversations with myself,

(55:23):
because in order for me to show up in that
conversation with him, I got to know what I'm feeling
and what I'm thinking, even if I don't know right like,
I have to start to question why am I doing
certain things, or why do I want to be in
certain places, or why do I want to be fucked
certain ways, and then get really clear about if that's
actually what I want. And then that really revealed all

(55:44):
of the validation that I was seeking and how much,
how most of my sex was for validation and not
for pleasure and not for you know, for my own whatever.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
You should leave every encounter feeling good.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
Yes, oh my god. That should be a rule of thumb. Yes,
not like so so like you should feel like, oh
that was good. I'm not saying it has to be
the joy.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Joy, satisfaction, et cetera, like all of it.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
And being able to to I think the talking also
is able. You're able to articulate more what you want,
which is I think such a gift. So I'm team
open relationships.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Yeah, and like it's funny when we got when I
got when I proposed, a lot of people were like,
what's the point, Like you are sleeping with other people,
Like what does like marriage even mean at this point?
And to me that it's like you're telling on yourself
when you say yeah, because it's like, is that do
you think that that sex is the thing that makes

(56:52):
or take something from friendship to relationship?

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Come on, talk about it, because that's that's just not
the case marriage. It's not just about sex. It's not
even building I'm building a life with this person.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Yes, he is my best friend, yeah, but like it's
it's much deeper than that, of course, and like and
our sex life has very little to do with that,
and like honoring that connection and working on that connection,
and you know is why we're getting married. Yea. We
want to do that make you feel promised each other,

(57:24):
to do that work in front of our friends, Like
he is that thing of like when you tell your
friend you're writing a book and it's like, well, fuck
now I have to write the book because and look,
that is the wedding for us. It's like we are
promising each other to do the work to maintain this relationship. Yeah,
we're doing it in front of all of the most
important people in our lives, and you know, and we're

(57:44):
doing it so that they can help keep us accountable
to that.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
What does it make you feel like when people do
say that to you, when it's like, what's the point
of getting married? You're open or whatever? Like, what does
that feel like when you for you?

Speaker 1 (57:57):
I give people a lot of grace because I think
we are all so fucked in the heads about sex
in this country. It's so like the way we're socialized,
the way we're a lack education, the way you know,
it's just like in many places just not spoken about,
never you know, touched upon, and like certainly like in
the media, like they care way more about sex than

(58:21):
they do about violence, you know, and and so and
and so. I give people a lot of grace because
I do think that, like, if your relationshipship to sex
is put on that kind of pedestal that you need
it to be just between you and one other person,
then like I get why looking at my relationship must

(58:42):
feel like the t violights Now sure, you know, I
just have a different relationship to it than you do.
It's like and that's okay. And I think like it's
like connecting like personal choices to morality is really like
it's really uh, it can get dicey for like if

(59:03):
you start doing that, because where does it end? You know,
like because monogamy it does not look the same for
every couple either. So let's be clear. I see behavior
and I see other behavior in monogamous couples that to
me would be cheating, and to other monogamous couples would
be cheating.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
You know, you talk about your friend who was they
were they didn't they didn't fuck, but they were going
to movies and first time and like that for me
would be not monogamous.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Yeah yeah, And so I just think, and it's always
so funny. They love to point out the failures in
open relationship, huh. They love to point out like, well,
they're they're gonna end up leaving you for one of
these other guys that they're fucking, And it's like, Babe,
that would have happened either way. You can happen every day.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Monymous. That's what's always crazy to me.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
It's called cheating. Yeah, it happens.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
And like people get divorced.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Sometimes the cheating is meaningless and just because they wanted
to have sex, and sometimes it's meaningful. Yeah, and it's
because they have fallen in love with someone else, and
that can happen regardless if they're acting on those urges
or not. Yeah, and it does not make it like
I don't know, we don't have the data on the

(01:00:13):
success rate of.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Well because well, I mean, we don't put money in
studying sex, let alone these relationships. But I think that
what is why I thank you for having this comma
with me, because I think people make open relationships polymorate
non monogamy all about sex and completely negate the humanity
that's actually at play, the relationship that's actually at play,
that it's not Sex is a component, but it's not
the entirety, like that you're not choosing to be open

(01:00:38):
just for because Yeah, I thought there is this.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Weird assumption too that like we don't have sex with
each other anymore, which is not the case. Like I
love having sex with him, yeah, passion, and it's connected
and it's wonderful and like I love Like the other night,
I like we had people over watch drag Race and
a bunch of people stuck around before, you know, pregaming
and whatnot. And I like went downstairs and took a

(01:01:01):
viagra and then like came upstairs and John Michael wasn't
it in the room, And I was like, you guys
have about thirty minutes and then I'm kicking you out
because the pill's gonna kick and uh, yeah, I'll need
you to call your ubers. I'm like, but it's it
is a different kind of sex. Yeah, like having sex

(01:01:21):
with the person that knows you better than anyone in
the different. Yeah, it hits different. Yeah, and it's and
it's great, but also sometimes I just want to be
a fucking whore and like and like it's either you know,
and like it's like he doesn't need to always be
involved in that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's just you getting to experience. It's
your expanding yourself. You get to experience this and you
get to experience this other thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
I was invited to an orgy and the guy who
invited me, yeah, you know, at the beginning of the night,
he was like, Savior, looad for me, Savior, looad for me, Like,
don't don't bust anybody else. And I was like okay,
and you know, by the I was like getting ready
to go, and I was like, okay, now's the time,
like are you ready? And he had already taken like
one or two loads at this point, and I had

(01:02:07):
been doing some substances that made it difficult. I mean,
thank god I was able to get hard, let alone
like the thought of coming. At a certain point, I
was like, it's never going to happen. But I knew
that he had two loads in him already, and I
was like, and so I did, I for the first
time in my life as a man, an orgasm because

(01:02:32):
I was like, how's he going to know? Is he
going to do forensics?

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Like he was one?

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Like I was like, oh, you know, and he was
like I can feel it. I can feel it. And
I was like, you certainly cannot. It was like theater
on both sides.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
Wow, I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
And that's and so that so now we get to
end on something that is like keeping.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
Well, so he didn't get he didn't earn the Kim
Booster full name load. Actually I love that story. Thank
you so much. I'm missing story for the road perfect.
Thank you, Joel, Thank you. One more bit of homekeeping

(01:03:21):
don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to this podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Baby.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
We're trying to get two hundred and sixty reviews by
the end of April. We're like one hundred and sixty
right now, and so I know we can get there.
I know we can get there. Okay, well, you know
we're host here, but hose with hearts before we go,
let me speak to yours. I think we say that
at this point every week, would just say it, because
it's in the whole manifesto, but this idea that sex
is not about penetration, So that person who was asking

(01:03:47):
about how to last longer, it's, you know, just not
relying on the penetration. You know, can you go back,
as Joel said, to foreplay, which you know, I think
that anything that we classify as for play, I would
just say is so you know, whether that's going back
to your fingers, to your mouth, to massaging, to talking
some sexy talk, some dirty talk, like you know you

(01:04:08):
don't have to you don't have to take the dick
without a break and feel like, oh my goodness, I've
stopped the momentum or I've stopped the energy. And also
a reminder it might just be about changing positions. You know,
our bodies are different, and some people being on their
back feels more comfortable being on there, something feels more

(01:04:29):
comfortable being on their side, and so don't be afraid
to check in. And I love this thing that Joel said.
I would let someone into my asshole, but I'm too
afraid to tell them I need something different, And.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Is so true.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
We love people inside of us, our assholes, our revolvas,
our mouths. I mean, we need something different we are
afraid of. I don't know. It could be that we're
afraid of losing being rejected, losing their attention, losing their love,
losing their desire if we ask for something. So we
try to be amicable, amiable. I think this is obviously
very prep in women, in queer folks. That is how

(01:05:03):
we've learned to what'sort I'm looking for, That's how we
learned to feel our worth is by being agreeable, and
also sometimes our safety we've learned to maintain by being agreeable,
not sometimes all the time. And so just a reminder
that that is an old way of operating in your system,

(01:05:25):
and so we just update it, which is that like
if I am giving a head or if I'm taken,
dick or whatever, it is, like I have the full
right and permission to ask for something different. This person
is inside me, and there's a way that I need
them to be inside me. They're not going to know
if I don't tell them, you know what I'm saying,
So don't be afraid to ask. I love this about

(01:05:46):
money in partnerships. And by the way, I recognize that
Joel and I are two male bodies talking about money
inside of a relationship. And when you bring in a
cis heterosexual, dynamic man woman, there are you know, socialization
hiccups if you will, that come into play. There's a
lot of masculinity that comes into play, and who should

(01:06:09):
be making the money and who shouldn't. And like I've
been seeing all these things on like TikTok and Instagram,
where like guys are like if she makes more money
than me, then like she's out, Like I don't, I don't,
I don't bugger her. And that is just such a
level of insecurity that I do not have a lot
of patients for, you know, And that's probably a deeper
conversation about the the kind of patriarchal misogyny that's wrapped

(01:06:33):
inside of the man needs to make the most money.
I'll say, very like candidly. Matthew and I had a
little bit of that in the very beginning, which I
recognize a full socialization as a man, like he has
been raised as a man to feel like he has
to be the one to make the more money or
to whatever. And there was a moment where I booked
a job. This is again like ten years ago, so

(01:06:55):
when we first got together, I booked a job that
would have potentially paid me astronomically more than he was
making as a teacher. And it kicked up some gook
which was not which is so funny because it wasn't.
It was unrecognizable to the partner that he is like,
it's not his stuff like that, just he doesn't respond
in that way. And so we were both like, what
is this response? And it was like, oh, right, you've

(01:07:17):
been socialized as a man to think that you your
worth as a man is rooted to how much money
you make, and that you have to make as much,
if not more than your partner. And if your partner
is making more than you, than that means you are
less than That means that you're weak, which is not true, right,
But that's how you're socialized, and so when you recognize it,
when you see it, you have to address it, You

(01:07:39):
have to talk about you have to pull it so
that you can update the operating system, which is that
who gives a fuck, we're in a partnership together. Who
gives a fuck who makes more money? We're in this together,
We're building this life together. And so you know, you know,
what's yours is mind, what's mine is yours. Vibes, they're
obviously guard to that if this is a second marriage

(01:08:01):
or you know, all those things, but in essence and
it's purest it's like we are building together. So I
don't really care who makes more or less, because money
is not the only defining factor of our relationship, or
is the only or the only way to be taken
care of or to take care of somebody. There are
so many other elements to caring for each other in

(01:08:22):
a relationship that goes outside of money. And if we're
basing it all around money, the relationship is going to
be empty as fuck. Okay, So I again, focus on
the heart of the person, focus on the integrity of
the person. Obviously you want to I think you want
to be with somebody who knows how to talk about money,
because listen, we can't deny the business of being in relationship,

(01:08:44):
the business of existing in a capitalist country. Like you know,
you got to know what's going on with your with
your bills, with your money, and with your partner's money,
and vice versa. So you want to be with somebody
who wants who's able to talk about it, or who's
willing to work on being able to talk about it.
But you don't need to be with somebody who is
fully financially secure in this moment to to have or

(01:09:08):
build a relationship. You know, I'm less worried about your
credit score. I am worried about it. I do want
to know, But I'm more worried about your you know,
your compassionate score, your curiosity score, your communication score like
that that you know, that is what I'm interested in.
That is that deserves just as much weight. Because credit
score we can build, Okay, we can build that back up.

(01:09:31):
We can get you on your little budget and forget
it out. But if you're a dick, if you're a
fucking asshole, we don't have time for it. We don't
have time for it coming out safely. I'm glad we
answered that question because I you know, as Joel said,
we've been out professionally for so long that you take
for granted that this is still a thing that many

(01:09:52):
people have to do and having to consider your safety
when you do it. And so I really think that
it's so smart to consider what is your financial secure
what are your resources? If you know this is not
going to go well, or you feel like there's a
potential that your that your relationship with your family could
be compromised if you come out, then yeah, consider what

(01:10:12):
what are your what is your what are your guardrails,
what is your safety? What is your contingency plan? I
think Joel said, know your contingency plan, and then also
how you do it. You don't get more brownie points
for coming out at Thanksgiving dinner. You don't get more
brownie points for coming out you know, at you know,
at the family function. If it's safer for you to

(01:10:34):
do it over text, to write a letter, to send
an email. This is about you in this moment. You
are the vulnerable one here, and so what is going
to take care of you? Is the is the choice
that you should make? Ah, I also really love when
Joel said, I don't require validation from other people anymore
when it comes to sex, right, because we we don't

(01:10:56):
talk about it enough. But you know, we talked about
here some a little bit. But you know, a lot
of our a lot of our sex is rooted in validation.
In wanting to feel desirable and wanting to feel attractive,
and wanting to feel loved. We pursue sex and it
becomes this like bottomless pit or this bottomless well where
you know there's just never enough and that sometimes we're

(01:11:18):
not Sometimes a lot of people are chasing these physical
interactions so that we can feel like we're worthy, so
we can feel like we're a whole. And when you
learn how to validate yourself and belong to and by
the way, I'm not saying that's easy, but you know,
when you do learn it, when you commit to that,
then suddenly sex doesn't have to be about the chase.

(01:11:39):
Sex doesn't have to be about you filling your cup anymore.
You do it enjoy, you do it for pleasure, You
do it when you feel like it. You know, I'm saying,
you do it when you want to it. It doesn't
it doesn't have stakes on it, it gets to be
a little more fun. Because if your validation you're worth,
your belonging, your acceptance comes from your sex, that I

(01:12:00):
imagine the sex that you're pursuing has some high stakes
to it, because feeling like you're worthy of existing are
high stakes, right, And so now you're putting that on
this physical interaction, you're putting that on the other person,
you're putting on yourself, and those are just like, it's
just a really high fucking bar. And I don't think

(01:12:22):
that your sex should be attached to your worth. I
would just you know, encourage you to do the work
to detangle your worth from your sex so that sex
can be in joy, so it can be in pleasure.
You should leave, As Joel said, every encounter feeling good.
It may not be the best sex ever, right, it

(01:12:42):
may not blow your mind, but do you feel good
about that interaction? That's the goal, right. The goal is
that every you know, sexual encounter that you have, you
feel good about it because you know why you were there.
You were able to advocate for yourself. You're able to
communicate if the dick was dicking too hard, you were
able to say, oh my goodness, you a little slower,
a little softer, whatever it is, you were able to

(01:13:02):
ask for what you need, and so it was it
was able to be a good time, a good interaction,
and that's what we want. This question, what's the point
of getting married if you're open? Is such a wild
question that I have received, you know, Joel has received.
As we were talking about. I think it's just so
beautiful that Joel, you know, it reminded me because I
was like that those questions make me want to fight.

(01:13:25):
I want to, like ye swing, but you know, giving grace,
as Joel was saying, you know, because he knows how
we're raised and a lack of education around sex. It's
why we're doing this podcast to bring raise awareness, to
have these conversations but understanding. I think sometimes I take
for granted because I'm constantly having these kinds of conversations,
that that's not the norm, right, that a lot of

(01:13:47):
people aren't necessarily talking about that, and certainly not every
single day all the time. And so there is a
naivete or an ignorance around parts of sex, including and
especially non monogamy, polyamory, open relationships. I would like to
remind you or just reimpress that it's not just about sex.

(01:14:13):
That people are polly or they're open, or they're non
monogamous for more reasons than just fucking. Also, your marriage
is not just about about sex. I don't think that
your marriage will be successful if you are building it
around the temple of sex. Sex can be a component
of your marriage. Of course, it might be a very
important component. It might also not be And that's O

(01:14:35):
Kate too. Shout out to the girlies who are married
and like, sex is just not a concern for you.
You're like, you're not pressed about it. It's not the
thing you're craving, whether your sex drive is low or
you are open, and you're just like, that's not That's
not why I'm in this partnership. I'm in this partnership
for a lot of other reasons. And like, shout out
to you your your reasons are just as valid. But

(01:14:55):
you know, again, I understand that how we're socialized and
how we're raised, and the lack of information around sex
in general, let alone, you know, relationships that aren't monogamous
might make you, as Joel say, look at the relationships
at like it's the twilight zone. It's not it's just
something different, and so let's you know, say, open hearted
and curious. It may not work for you, and that's

(01:15:15):
totally fine. No one is saying that polyamory are not
monogamy or OLP relationships are better than monogamy. Absolutely not.
But you have the right to know what your options
are so you can advocate for yourself and you can say, oh,
this is what I'm looking for, or I think I
do want to try some of this, or I want
a bit of this, or like, you know, I'm actually
okay with with the texting, but I don't want anything

(01:15:36):
physical to happen, or actually I don't love the texting,
but the physical doesn't bother me. Can you can you
be brave enough, you know, to ask yourself the questions
and to ask them, you know, periodically. You know, at
the top of our relationship Matthew and I, he was like,
I will never be open. I do not want to
be open. That's not my vibe. And I was kind
of like, all right, cool. Five years into the relationship

(01:15:56):
he was like, you know what, I'm actually curious about this,
and that's okay, you know what I'm saying. We get
to evolve and shift and in five years you might
be like, I'm not doing it anymore, and we'll have
those conversations. But you know, don't deny yourself evolution. Oh,
don't deny yourself growth and expansion just because you're afraid
to ask the question. Ask the fucking questions. And then finally,

(01:16:17):
I love that you know, open relationship doesn't mean that
the original relationship is sexless. There's this, you know, misconception
that if a couple is non monogamous, or if they're
open or the polly, that they're no longer having sex.
That is not true. It can actually very much make
their sex that much hotter, that much more exciting, that

(01:16:39):
much more intimate, that much more special. Something. I think
there's a common misconception that if you're having sex with
more than just your what let's call it your anchor partner,
the partner that you might cohabitate with or is your
original partner, that it detracts. And it's like that it
doesn't actually detract. It can actually, you know, if those
partners are in communication and talking, you can actually enhance,

(01:17:00):
you know, it can actually make it that much sweeter,
that much more important, that much more special. Also, I
think redefining or expanding what your definition of sex is.
A couple may not have penetration, and that's not sex
for them, but sex for them might be you know
what will demus for play might just be side energy.
Sex for them might be massages and cuddles. And you know,

(01:17:23):
sex doesn't just have to be about penetration. And a
couple gets to define what sex is for themselves. You
get to define what sex is for yourself. Don't ever
forget that. Oh also, I have to tell you about
my substack, which I know a lot of you know,
but we've been revamping Brandon Coogodman dot substack dot com
and every Monday, every Monday night, I will be going

(01:17:43):
live Messy Mondays at night six pm Pacific, nine pm
Eastern sixty nine. Okay, you get it, and I'll have
guests and wiki ki, I'll read more submissions and it's
such a vibe. This past Monday, Eric William's, host of
That's a Gay As Podcast, who is also a friend
to tell me something Messy, was on the show and
we talked about First Gate kisses. We talked about one

(01:18:06):
of y'all submitted something about fucking in a park on
a slide, So we talked about that, we talked about
mood lighting and turn ons. It was a really really
awesome conversation, so you can check that out. Also, if
you're a paid subscriber, which is five dollars a month,
we need access to more goodies like monthly essays from
my whole journal, or get access to the group chats

(01:18:27):
and you can reach me directly through those chats. And
then also my weekly Hey Everybody podcast, which is a
mini pod where I recap the week, tell you what's
going on, catch you up on some things that are
happening personally and professionally, give you even more messy stories,
and also tell you more about what's going on on
our podcast. So we might dive into some deeper conversations there.

(01:18:49):
So here's a little clip from the most recent Hey Everybody.
Check it out. We were just messaging about us fucking
and now you're talking about one and fuck my best ye. Interesting, interesting,
interesting pivot here, But uh huh, I'm like, well, you know, uh,
he's my best dye and he knows about us, and

(01:19:10):
he knows about like, you know, the time we spent together,
Like a's a leapd amount of time. No we weren't
dating or whatever, but you and I were hanging out
for a signific amount of time. So you know he's
being respectful. Y'all are doubts. You can do whatever you want,
but I think he's being respectful. He responds to me.
The guy goes, it's not like like you own me
or something. I was like, listen, uh, the story is

(01:19:37):
juicy and wild and a lot of things, and I
would love your take. I was like, is this messy?
Is it too messy? I would love your take. So
check out Brandon call Goodman dot substack dot com. I
love you. You can find me on Instagram as well
at Brandon Kyle Goodman. You can find our podcast at
tell Me Something Messy, and you can join our community

(01:20:00):
on the Messy Monday's Substack. When you subscribe, you'll get
weekly posts, recommendations on sex and self and so much more. Also,
I want to hear from you, so send your topic ideas,
your messy stories, your submissions, your game ideas to tell
Me Something Messy at gmail dot com. You can also
call us at six six nine sixty nine Messy That

(01:20:22):
is six six nine six ninety six three seven seven
nine Rate review and Share this podcast with all your
hoe and aspiring hoe friends really really helps the show out.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
All right.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
Until next time, ask about the politics of that dick
before you make it spit, make sure they eat the
kitty buffore day, beat the kitty before fuckation or succation. Communication.
And in case you haven't heard it yet, today you
are so deeply loved. I love you ye, thank you
so much for listening to tell Me Something Messy. If

(01:20:57):
you all enjoyed the show, send me episode to someone
else who like it. Tell Me Something Messy was executive
produced by Ali Perry, Gabrielle Collins, and Yours Truly. Our
producer and editor is Vince Dejohnny. For more podcasts from
iHeartRadio and The Outspoken Network, visit the iHeartRadio app or
anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.

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Episode Transcript

Host

Brandon Kyle Goodman

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Dateline NBC

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