December 18, 2025 • 55 mins
Cartoonist, creative director and sexual-wellness advocate, Jessica Stahl, joins Brandon with her own important acronym around pleasure communication. Then, she and Brandon dive into boundaries, self-respect and how to learn that you're worth trusting. Plus a second Messy story for the road.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to tell Me Something Messy with Brandon, Kyle
Goodman and iHeart podcasts on the Outspoken Network. Talking about relationships,
sex and identity always reminds me that being a human
is messy. So I wanted to create a compassionate space
where we could feel less alone and embrace our mess together,
the funny, the vulnerable, the cringe, and even the kinky.
(00:21):
Because every part of who we are matters. So do'll
be shy, baby, tell me something messy. Messy patrons, come on, baby,
welcome to the show. I am your messy mom, Brandon
Kyle Goodman, and you know what that means. It is
time for a guest. Now, while they get situated, we
will get our messy. Key Key started with a ho
manifest stove, so repeat after me aloud or in your head.
(00:44):
Grant me the serenity to unpack my shame, the courage
to heal, the wisdom to know that sex is not
about penetration, the audacity to advocate for my pleasure and boundaries,
the strength to not call my ex that fuck boy,
fuck girl, or fuck they, for it is better to
mass debate by myself in peace then to let someone
play in my motherfuck you face. Let the whommunity say holujah. Okay, y'all,
(01:08):
Today we have the deliciously unapologetic pen slinging queen of
cartoon chaos, Jessica Stall. She's the mind behind Vanilla Cool Dance,
the webcomic that will have you laughing, gasping, and texting
your best friend. Oh my god, she really drew that.
She is here to talk about love, dating, bodies, and
every messy, shamefree thing in between. So y'all please help me.
(01:31):
Welcome to our messy living room, Jessica Stall, Hi Jazz, Hello.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
To the messy living room. It's quite clean, but we're
the mess, so you get it.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I'm ready to bring the mess.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yes, before we get started, we have our messy mandates
for our messy Kiki, so things get to be unprocessed.
Any opinions shared have the right to shift. Change of
all today tomorrow, ten years from now. And if during
the Kiki, something feels too personal or unintentionally offends, we
use the safe word foosball, which gives us a moment
to pivot and address accordingly.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I love that, I love a word.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
We started the lou breaker. Yes, okay, so we're gonna
play a game of smash or pass. I'm going to
give you a prompt. You don't tell me if you
smash it or you pass it. Okay, smash your past.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Morning sex smash. Yeah, in theory for me, it's a smash.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
But because I I dabble in the anal of it
all interest, I don't want you and me in the
morning like that.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I have to I have to go to the bathroom
right first, but yeah, I get that, and then then.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Then it's like once a while, like I'm not feeling
sexy after, you know, like I need some time.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
So morning night times better.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Nighttime is a way better for me. Morning sex in
theory again is okay. So I heard that once you
start douching, you can never not douche again. So I
think back in the day before I understood what doucheing was,
I could have morning sets and it didn't bug me.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
But now I'm very regular.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Got it, got it, which is good.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And I wake up and I was gonna say, tm I,
but the show is you know, I have to poop
twice before I leave the house.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So I wake up.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I'm like, I'm like once a once a day, once
a morning.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Once a morning. I'm twice in the morning at least.
Sometimes it'll be three times. It's just crazy at doing
I don't it's not fun. But but the fiber intake.
Really as soon as I get up, I have my
green juice in a little water, and then I'm ready
to go. But then I don't leave the house until
I have the second one, at least because I because
I don't because I don't like to poop in public restrooms,
(03:29):
spash pas.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Fast. I mean, I feel like neither.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I wouldn't like smash it, but I wouldn't like.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
If I need to go.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
But it's not ideal.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
It's not ideal.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
But I would never like just hold it for hours.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I would.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I think there's some.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Repression there, absolutely repression that I'm comfortable with. I just
don't like. I don't, Yeah, I don't. I don't like.
I don't like other people. So so I don't like
people to hear me.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
And I like to try to think about.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
It, you know, and I like to take my time.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I'm I'm definitely a girl who's in there, like on
the I'm enjoying myself like it's an experience.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
It's an awful experience. I'm trying to make it softer.
I wish he did nice lighting. Yeah, give me.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Some nice lighting, give me some reading material, and I
love it. But you can't have that in everyone's public restroom.
I also hate to be pooping next to somebody else pooping.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
My god, do that.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
That would be a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah. My heck is I put my headphones in.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Oh wow, so you have done it before.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
You just rarely.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Put my headphones in.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Because I'm like, I don't want to hear what you're doing.
I don't want to think about you hearing what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And then also the worst is because I think about
this in the gym, Like if you see somebody hot
and you're like, I can't go poop.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Right now, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I'm like, I'm not gonna go poop because I see
me go.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Then he's going to get thinking about in there.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah he might. He might, unless well, I guess if
he sat down next.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
To the stall, then we would be bonding over the
fact that we're both shipping at the gym or in
this public space.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
But U suid that doesn't happen, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Which is why the only reason I would be straight,
the only reason I'd be ahead of a sexual is
because I would never have to worry about my crush
seeing me poop.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
That's a great reason to.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Be I still get like shy. I'm like, can they
hear you from the bedroom? Like, I don't know?
Speaker 4 (05:19):
I get sure?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Can I take something? I say?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, tell me how you like fact check that you
leave your phone out there to record it to like check?
Can they check?
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Like how would you know?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah, especially if you're it's a farty poop, I had to,
you know, like when you I always say, if your
fart smell, you have to poop. People don't believe me,
but like if you're if your fart is smelling, girl,
you have to go.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
To the bad That makes sense absolutely. If you have
a clo it's not you're fine.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
But if if that part smells, it's because it's your
body's saying. We got to get the tout. So I
went to a hook up and I was topping, but
my stomach was gurgly. And then I went into the
bathroom and I pee, And sometimes when you pee, it
relaxes you, so a little comes out.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So I farted. I tooted.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
It wasn't loud, but it's smelled. And then I was like,
I'm staying here for a second. And then I walked
out and I was like, okay, cool, let's get back
into it because on top of it, so it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
But then he decided to go back and I was like,
oh lord, and we did. We ignored it.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
But I did hear him go oh, and I was like, yeah,
maybe no, come come, come bent over, let me fuck
you so funny. Last one smaster pass an excess hot sibling,
pass past.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, I'm going to pass.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Okay, yeah, an excess hot sibling.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
I'm gonna guess. It depends how like, it depends on how.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It ended, because I could be petty, but I will
also pass. But yeah, I'm I'm ana pass. I'm a
past messy not sloppy you think. Okay, by the way
you won the game, yay, lollipop pick one. There's so
many different this season.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Look like I guess I'm definitely getting a blow.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Pop or Apple Apple.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yes, perfect, I'm gonna take one of these. Okay, you
can you can choose to eat on that. Right now,
you have to tell me something messy. Okay, So my
favorite thing about lollipops is that's my after care. So
after I have some good sex, I have lollipop. There's
something about something sweet after you come. Highly recommend, highly recommend.
(07:20):
Also love a talking to cookie. So Jess, can you
tell me something messy?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, I can tell you something about please.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
So I recently went to meet a guy I knew
in Turkey on a yacht trip with his family for
a week.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Wait, went to Turkey on a yacht trip with this
guy's family and we just met.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
We had spent a little bit of time together, but
we had connected for a few months, like we met
in real life while I was traveling, and he had
invited me on this trip and we had been talking
for quite a few months. So I thought, okay, let's go.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
And I got off the boat five days early.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Why Yeah, And that was messy, but I was really
proud of myself.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
You got off because it didn't go well.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Didn't go well. He was sick, which is fine. I
don't know if men experienced sickness different and just become
not super nice.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
But it was an asshole when he got sick.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yeah, but I think maybe he was just kind of
an asshole, but like a small one, but like a
it was all too small to really understand what was happening.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Were like one of the flags, one of your like
you're like, oh, this thing he did that was actually asshole.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yes, Well, when I had brought up the what was
happening and that I didn't feel that we were connecting,
and I at this point, I you know, I would
not do well on reality TV. This was like a
pressure cooker. We're like on a boat trip stuck together.
So like my emotions were also quite high. That is
like not going well. So I was probably crying and
not doing very well. But I communicated like that I
(09:00):
feel like we were connecting, and and his reaction was
very I'm sick. If I wasn't we would be connecting.
I can't connect. I don't have capacity. Also, there was
this other girl, and.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I'm like, there's another girl on the yacht.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
No, not on the yacht, and but apparently there had been.
He was not feeling so good about how that had ended.
Uh huh, And I think I said, I don't even
know what to say, and then he goes, hmm, you
could say thank you so much for bringing me on
this trip to Turkey and for seeing this beautiful yeah
(09:34):
part of the world. I'm so sorry you're sick. I'm
so sorry that you're having this difficult time with this
other girl, and let's try and make the most of it.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
He was you to say, I was sorry that you
have a difficult with another girl when you're the girl
in the yacht.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
So I got off.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Good for you, Good for you, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
And then I spent the rest of the week in Turkey.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
So you so you just like made your own play
in Turkey.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
I mean it's so funny because when.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
People say, oh, wasn't it scary to get off the
boat and like be alone in Turkey, I'm like, that
is my I thrive by myself traveling. I'm a huge,
shallow traveler. So I felt amazing. To me. The messy part,
or the in my mind was that I have worked
hard to like become secure, let's say, but I still
(10:26):
have that Oh maybe I should wait, Maybe it's not
as bad. Maybe I'm being dramatic. Maybe he's actually really
a nice guy.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
I let me wait and wait and wait.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Making these excuses.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yes, and also I have to tell eighteen people that
I don't know, like I'm getting off the boat, Like,
how did that go?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Did you have dinner? Like I'm out? Was it dramatic?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
No, well, I don't know. I've no idea what happened
after I left. I think I woke up that morning
and I realized, Okay, we're at port. I don't know
the next time, we're going to be like in a town.
And I thought, okay, maybe I'm being dramatic. He said
he made one or two more small digs at me
that morning, and like just like like anything I kind
(11:07):
of said was the wrong thing to say, or or yeah,
like yeah, just like snappy and and not not so
it didn't feel good. They were just like small digs
like micro Russians or whatever that like make you feel
shitty about yourself. And so he said one more and
(11:30):
I was like, you know, I'm getting off. I just said, hey,
I'm leaving the boat. He was completely surprised, and and
then I just told his family, like.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Something came up.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
It's crazy, like I have to leave right now.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, like gosh, I have to.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Get up now.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Maybe did you like the family?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Did you like the fa They were great?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
They were great.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, they were great, Yeah, good for you. Yeah, well
I think the Yeah, what do you think? I would
never have done that before. So I have been in
situations on like years ago. I remember another instance where
I was on a uh I think like a third
or fourth date and the guy came and he was
(12:11):
feeling very tired and he was sharing, oh I'm so tired,
and I kind of kept waiting for the date to
like get better. We went back to his house, he
was still being like, oh, I'm really tired, blah blah.
And instead of me leaving and being like, hey you're
boring or like hey this isn't fun, let me get
out of here, I kind of stayed. And then eventually
I said what is going on? And he said I
slept with somebody the night before and then he asked
(12:32):
me to send.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
He told me dinner was expensive and can I wul
I mind paying half the bill?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, so at dinner he was taking you out too, Yes,
of you. I have heard things and we think we
talked about on the show.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
But like people asking like if a date doesn't go well,
then they'll they'll ask you a Benmo requests you for
half the date or something like that.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
That's yeah, oh, like what if you if you can't
afford it?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Seriously, this is very Dutch. Also, what like what is
that about?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Because you live in Amsterdam.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I live in Amsterdam, and so I have had many
a like TICKI. We have it's like our Venmo many
a TICKI scent, like when I'm like, hey, I didn't
really feel connection, Okay, here's the tiki or wait yeah
I wait.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
So this is like a growing thing that like if
somebody pays for a date and then you were like
I don't want a second date, they go.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
They could they do you think that's right?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
No? I think it's ridiculous. I think it's ridiculous. And
I also think, oh, okay, so you can show face
on like a date in public and then behind the
scenes you're going to be like you're going to invoice me.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, So I don't Yeah, I would rather honestly split
on the first date than for the second day or
the third date. But yeah, I don't like this idea
that they're that if you went out with them again,
then they would have kept the Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
That to me as somebody who like it's a it's
a flag that somebody's keeping tabs, and if they're keeping tabs,
then I would imagine they're doing it not only financially,
but just like kind of everywhere else whereas if I'm
looking for goracious, if I'm dating you, I'm hoping that
eventually this wie a partnership, and if we're partners, we
do things together. And so I'm not not saying that
we won't eventually need to figure out what the finances
(14:09):
or whatever, but I'm not like getting you back, but
at least and go my way.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
True, but at least in that case, like I'm rejecting them.
This was like I've had two instances where I'm being
rejected and then they invoiced me and I'm like, like
this guy slept at the girl the night before, super tired,
and then he's like, can you pay for half the bill?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Wow? Yeah? Fight yeah, fight.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
So I would say I've now graduated because in that situation,
I stayed and I waited and I waited, and I
always think about that. I'm like, oh my god, and
now I got off.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So good yeah for you, Good for you. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I think when we when we noticed that it's a
ref lag, we need to I think love ourselves enough
to like piece the fuck out exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
And you know what somebody said that has really stayed
with me. They shared that they go to a lot
of like Tantra temp nights m M, and they said
at some of them, they ask you, like mid engagement
in the microphone, they'll be like, are you still where
you want to be? Check in with your body? Are
you still where you want to be? Yeah? You can
(15:13):
change your mind, And so I think in that situation,
I'm like, it could be better, like who knows, we
don't know, but like, am I still where I want
to be in this moment?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
No? This sucks.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I am out of here. I'm not going to be
treated like this.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
That's tea like to be able to check in with
your body and be like am I happy right now?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Or is this where I want to be? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
And then taking back the autonomy to make a change
and likely, oh I don't have.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
To you know what is?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
I feel like sometimes we're all because we spend our childhood.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Let's go down this funtain.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
We spend our childhood and we spend our teenage years
and our college years being told where to be, when
to be there. I think we forget as adults that
we have autonomy. Yeah, and so we're like we're stuck
in that loop of like, oh, I'm supposed to be
here at nine to five, I'm supposed to be at
this thing because my mom told me so, because my
boss told me so.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
And it's like no, in your life, you don't have
to be there.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
You can actually make a decision and go, oh, I
don't want I don't want this anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I can go I can leave.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, I remember. I mean this is the feeling of
the boat that I think, well you can relate to.
It was I was sleeping the night before I left,
and I thought, oh my god, I wish my mom
could come pick me up, like from my you know,
like from a sleepover where you're like, I don't want
to be here anything.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I take myself up.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I can pick myself and pick myself up from.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
The from the shitty sleepover.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
About absolutely also to that point, like, no, no vacation
is worth your peace of mind.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
I could take myself from Turkey.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah about your Yeah, I'll give fuk about your money.
I'll give a fuck about where we are.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
It was like his yah or his money.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
It was like it's.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Just a family. Which is sorry. I do not want
to sound ungrateful. It was super nice to be invited, Yeah,
but also like, but.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You should be treated well when you're Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
I would feel so bad if I invited somebody on
a trip and even if I didn't agree with them,
if they were not having a good time, I would
feel horrible.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, I'd want to like make it better, even though
I was sick. I'd be like, oh, I'm sick right now.
We can't engage in this.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I wish we could.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Or but also the.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Fact that there was like another girl involved is and
him asking you to have empathy for a complicated relationship
with another girl?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah? Is mental? Is mental?
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Men can be mental. Shall we do some mess email?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
As always, your submissions remain anonymous.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Okay, Jess.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
So this one says I crashed a work event because
I thought it was open bar. Turns out it was
a retirement party. I left with a gift bag and
the retiree's phone number.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Have you that is amasic?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Have you ever crashed an event before and then like
found a boy.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I haven't found a boy, but I have crashed like
a barmits for before.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Know how did that happen?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
I think I was like on vacation. I don't think
we like crashed very long.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
But but you saw some yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I did not pick up any thirteen year.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Olds, okayarments, but you saw some good.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
I think we didn't know what it was and then
we like approached and then we were boarded once we
found out it was an enparments.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah that's fair.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I've crashed many a party, but I guess it wasn't
really crashing so much as you know, being a plus
one and like showing up randomly.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
You were invited.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Maybe, But I feel like I'm crashing because like I
didn't know the host and like it was like like
they're not getting approval for me to come.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
It's just like, oh.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Come with Yeah, and I those are those stressed me
out actually, because I always want.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
To be welcome.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I want to you want to know when you're welcomed.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
But I like the idea of crashing and event and
picking some money up, especially retire read they got money
now saying they got access to that account now just
thinking ahead, you know, saying okay, which we love this one,
says Jessica and MESSI mom. I had this guy over
for the first time, and everything was going great. We
were watching a movie, cuddled up. The vibes were immaculate.
(19:17):
Then my phone died, so I went to grab my
charger from the nightstand, except I opened the wrong drawer
and boom, there it was my full collection of toys,
loop and things I don't even remember buying. He froze,
I panicked, and I just blowed out those are for
a friend.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Now I don't know if I should address it, own
it or just hope he thinks it was a fever dream.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Oh my gosh, you should be proud of your joys.
This is a.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Collections you just like put on the Little mer Speaking
of Disney, you put on these are a few of
my favorite things.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Do you like do a show and tell?
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yes? I think if we're fucking and you see I
got toys, that to me is exciting, Like.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Yeah, I mean, here's what the reaction and what? So
did they.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Say they said you froze, she panicked? Or I'm making assumption.
Maybe it was two guys. But the guy froze and
then the person who wrote in panicked, And now they
don't know if they should address it.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I think one you address.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
It, definitely addressed.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, yeah, like otherwise it's like quiet tension.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yeah you really? Hey, I know you saw them.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
I saw toys.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I know you probably don't think that I'm saving them
for a friend. I got nervous.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
They're mine. Are you curious in that?
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Like I love using toys in the bedroom. I mean
to be fair, I work in the sexual WANTA space.
So I have so many toys in my house. I
don't know, he's forty thirty wow, four maybe like thirty
thirty toys, Yeah, something like that. I have.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
I have four I have, I have I have a
dildo about this song. And then I have like which
I never use. But it's a kid, you not. It's
this fat in this big but like fat and so
like we just never get there. I have like the
I have a couple of vibrating cock cranings. I have
like an anal training plug situation.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
What about like a stroker?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Okay, so I don't have a stroker, but I'm good.
I see I never find anything for my penis satisfied.
Like I have a flashlight that I use a couple
of times, and now you know it just kind of
stays there. Yeah, I don't find anything on my penis.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Like the sensation you don't like.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, it's not, it's not It doesn't do it.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I would rather just use my hand, okay, but it
doesn't like anything that I've used, which I'm so down.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
If y'all got toys to sense and I have a recommendation, okay, beautiful,
what's the recommendation?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Well, I love there's a stroker from fun Factory. Okay,
I forget the name of it, to be fair, maybe
I liked it more than my boyfriend all the time.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Okay, but how do you work?
Speaker 3 (21:54):
What was it? What does it look like so that
this one looked a little bit like a claw? Okay,
and then you go like this with it and I
I kind of sat on top. Well I did because
I was with them, but like they could also just
use it.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Then there's the EVO from s Vibe okay, and that's
I can show you after. But that's really cool because
insert of thing. Yeah, we can sort of thing, but
it like you can use it so that it does
some ball action, or you could do it so that
it's on the head like the thing. I'll show you
not explaining it very.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Well, that's right, we'll put well, we'll super yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I really I've learned that I love a little bit
of pain, and so I'm curious about ball clamps. My
partner has one that like a cockwork that like attaches
to the walls as well, which sounds like it would
be exciting. I also want to I'm gonna need to
do this nipple clamps.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
I like nipple clamp.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Really do you like when you are in your partner?
I mean, yeah, I love to have my I So
I used to have gayana kamastia, which is when you
develop extra estrogen and so a male body, it creates
a breast issue. So my nipples were sensitive and then
I have surgery to have that removed, and then I
lost sensation on my nipples.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
But then I don't have any sense really not that much.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Okay, okay either.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
So that's why I like it.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Oh that's where look because it feels I pierced my
nipple on Christmas.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Eve a couple of years ago, way to celebrate the birth.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Of Jesus, and now I have sensation back, and so like,
I love having my nipples like squeezed and played with
and I want to get a nipple clip. I just
bought a handcuffs for my partner because he likes to
be restrained. And they're like these fuzzy, fuzzy red ones
because you know, I want the because I'm still about like,
I don't want.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Hard nice textures. Yes, textures, but they should definitely like
I think, first of all, regardless of this guy, there
are people out there that would love to explore and
play with with you with them, So first of all,
just like, is so normal that you have and so
(24:00):
regardless of their reaction, which we cannot control, I think
if you're confident in it and also are just like
inviting them into exploring it with you, then the rest
is just to see what he does with it.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
So I personally don't like toys by myself, but I
love have a friend who loves toys. He will like
clean out to use toys, and I'm like that if
I'm cleaning out, I want a dick. But you can
use toys with me with the partner, So like, partners
using toys on me is really fun. I remember I
had a guy. It was one of the It was
an afternoon sex. It was like eleven am. In the afternoon,
(24:39):
and I was downtown, Like you live downtown, So I
went downtown like eleven am. And he's fucking me and
then he pulls out a bunch of toys and then
he starts using these toys on me. And then he's
like using the toys. He's like deepeeing me with a
toy and his dick. It was to the point, jess
I swear to you. We we finished, and then I
canceled the rest of my day.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I went home, out the chocolatees, I closed the blinds,
I sat on the couch.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I like, turn on some TV, and I just like,
let my body enjoy itself.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
So toys can really, yeah, do something? Do something?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Okay, this one says Hi Messi, Mom and Jessica. For
most of my life, I froze up in the bedroom.
I didn't know what I wanted, and even when I did,
I was too afraid or ashamed to say it out loud.
My messy question is why is it so hard, especially
for women and fems, to speak up about what we
want in bed? And how do we start moving from
shame to real intimacy.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I have a lot to say on this.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Beautiful Let's go I'm ready.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
So I think that, especially as a woman myself, that
first of all, growing up, I never realized that my
pleasure was valid. And I think so many of us
don't know that. We know that sex ends when your
male partner has an orgasm. We know that if they
aren't that we're probably doing something wrong. But it's really
(26:03):
about like giving a blowjob, it's really about servicing the
penis and not so much about It's very penis centric,
and I mean, and our partners grew up watching the
same porn and grew up in the same society that
we did, so they also probably think they can, just,
for instance, have sex with somebody who has a volva
(26:26):
and they will just orgasm from penetration, when so few
of us actually orgasm from penetration a lot. We need
the literal stimulation. So I think, first that's a big component.
We don't even realize it's valid. And then secondly, we
don't really know how to explore ourselves. We don't know how,
and if we don't explore ourselves, how can we communicate
(26:47):
what we like. So I think it's really helped me
has been not only realizing, Okay, my pleasure is valid,
which amazing partners have helped me realize that. I remember
the first time a guy I went down on me
twice in a row and I was like I already
came and he's like, yeah, I know, And I was like,
wait a minute, somebody could love this, like somebody could
(27:08):
get off it is their pleasure to give me pleasure
with such a game changer. And then once I started
to explore myself more and realize that my partner could
like it, I think just over time you get more
and more confident communicating what you like. But I think
it's first knowing your pleasure's valid. Second, understanding all the
(27:31):
options that you could get, Like there's as you said,
I think sex is so expansive. Pleasure is so expansive.
There's a million different things that you could have somebody
do to you or that you could do to somebody else.
So kind of understanding the menu of options that you
have and kind of figuring out what you would like
and just say I think it's super sexy when somebody
(27:52):
says to you, like, what it is there fantasizing about
doing to you or what it is that they you
would So I also think.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
To you what you said earlier in your messy's story.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
It's having the uh, what we're going to use, having
the audacity and the courage to pick partners who are
open to your pleasure. Yes, right, like that you don't
have to settle. I think that uh. And I think
that women, fems, and bottoms actually have a lot in
common because we are receiving the penis, and penis owners
(28:29):
can often not always their fault, but just by culture
just be centered around themselves. Sex education is centered around
just put a condom on, like it's all about the penis,
and it's and and for the volve it's like, don't
get pregnant. That's like yeah, kind of yeah, but never
like what is your pleasure? And and then we start
to make the clitterists and the volva complicated and it's like, no,
(28:51):
just maybe ask a question, maybe maybe it talk to
your partner and see what it is.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
And to your point, I think there's also a big
orgasm gap with like between two penis partner is like
the bottom, for instance, not having an orgasm as much
as the top. I think because they also taking that.
I guess it's a heteronormative like narrative that they're then
copy pasting on telling.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
You right, like You're like, I'm a whole and I
should be grateful that this person wants to fuck me,
and I shouldn't have any wants or desires or needs. Yeah,
so like even like I shouldn't expect my partner to
eat my ass or eat my pussy before they fuck me.
And it's like that's kind of like you know, listen,
everyone has their thing. But for the most part, when
I hear oh, I don't want to eat ass or
I don't want to eat pussy, I'm always like, huh, well,
(29:34):
are there other things that you want.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
To do to like, you know, warm this up, and
do you also expect me to do it?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
And like what do you like? What's the what's the
what's the thing.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
But I kind of learned from myself when I finally
had a partner who did they just wanted like they
want to just eat ass for the longest time and
got off on that. I was like, Oh, this is possible,
and so it's actually more so about me really a
boundary what kind of partners I engage with.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yeah, I love that and something that's helped me, which
people a lot of people are very like not everyone
is going to want to do. But I've started recently
with newer partners having it's called like it's called the
RBDSM top huh. So it's like our stands for relationships,
Like is there anyone else that needs to know about
(30:22):
this depending on if they're you know, we don't know who.
We can't presume somebody's monogamous or not or so relationship
status be for boundaries so like, and I think this
can be replicated, like no matter how many times you
have sex, I mean, maybe you don't want to do
this all the time, but like your boundaries shift depending
on the night. Maybe with my long term partner, I'm like, okay,
today I actually just want like touching. I don't want
(30:44):
any penetration, Like I just want intimacy in that way. Yeah,
so boundaries desires so like I would really love to
feel connected. I would really love to feel you like
slowly move your hands up and down. My thought. And
I think even the most more specific you get, the
sexier that can be than safe sex. How are you
(31:07):
having safe sex? And meaning so what do we want
this to mean? Is this a one night stand? Is
this like, uh, do I want after care after and
I think having just start normalizing conversations about intimacy in general. Yes,
like and it doesn't need to be in the bedroom,
it can be outside the bedroom. But like, the easier
you start can integrate these conversations, that's going to set
(31:28):
you up for success.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I can.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
I want one hundred percent agree that, like the time
to have the conversation isn't actually when we're about to fuck. Yeah,
it's like when we're just like having dinner is like
a time to talk about like when the stakes are
like low, even if we're like like even if you
know it's a hookup run on one of the apps,
it's like in that exchange, just being like what turns
you on or what do you like or what don't
you like? Or what are your boundaries or what are
(31:51):
you looking for? Is such a If somebody can't handle that,
then that to me is a flag for like cool,
This might not be a partner. Doesn't mean they're bad
or whatever, but I might not be compatible because I
want to be with a partner who's down to have curious, Yeah, curious,
who's curious about themselves, curious about me, And even if
they don't have an answer, are like open to exploring together,
(32:13):
figuring it out, because sometimes people don't know.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Nottally okay, and I think people get super insecure and
so they kind of just shut down the conversation or
they say whatever you want, that's like the biggest thing.
I've done it too, And I think, oh my god,
this person has asked me what do you want? Which
is not the way I would necessarily advise somebody to
ask the question. But when you say whatever you want
or like this is great, like you are not giving
(32:36):
them anything to work with, like no information. This person
is asking how can I pleasure you? How can I
make this experience better for you? And you've got nothing,
like yeah, say anything.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
But also I think that there might be some socialization
where we're like, oh, I'm not allowed to have totally
I'm not allowed to especially for women in fems like
I'm not allowed to advocate for myself.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I should just defer.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I mean, I one of these I doing this podcast
is because I see a lot of relationship podcasts where
there's a lot of conversation where like the woman is
the wife and like she they are literally saying, you're
supposed to bow down to the man.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I'm like in.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Twenty twenty five, we're having twenty twenty we're still saying
that that's insane. Like, no, like, you get to have
autonomy here, you get to have boundaries here, you get
to say, oh, like this idea that I wish I could,
like remember what podcasts, but I've seen a couple of
them where it's like if your man wants to have sex,
you should want to have sex. It's like no, no, no, no,
(33:32):
no no no, that's that's so toxic and so backwards.
You you have the right to consent what happens to
your body, and you have the right to say, oh,
I'm not desiring anything right now or for me to
get to that space where I want to.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
But I need this is what I need.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah. And also I think like what you're talking about
in terms of shutting down sex or like so many
of us look at it as black and white, like Okay,
we're gonna have sex, which means in course or not.
But I think what people miss a lot is like
the intimacy. So to be having sex a lot of
the times you're the reason it's a no is because
(34:10):
you're like not connected to your body. Yes, So there's
a million things that you could do with your partner
that may or may not lead to sex, that can
help you connect, drop be more present, drop into your
body more that maybe you do want to end up
having sex, but at least you feel intimacy and the
least you feel connection. And we never really talk about that.
(34:30):
It's always like, oh, I'm always shut down, but okay,
you're shut down because it's like, do you want to
have sex?
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah, I think after Branessa Mirin came on the show
and said, you know, sex starts, Uh, I'm gonna butcher it.
But like sex starts at the end of the last
the last round, right like as soon as like it
begins again four our four plate. It's our conversation, it's
the questions we're asking, it's the fantasies we're sharing. Like
all of that leads to then now we're ready. But
(34:55):
it's like that I actually used to feel feel shame
for needing emotional connection.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
I didn't know that I was allowed to need that
because emotional connection or intimacy gets categorized as oh, we're
going to get married now yeah, or like we have
to be in love, and it's like, no, I can
be intimate with the person I just met in the
dark room. It's just about a connection. It could be
that we've danced, it could be that we asked a
couple each other a couple of questions. You know, it
(35:23):
doesn't have to be, oh, now we're going to move
in with each other.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
And I don't know about you, but in dark rooms
or space like kink spaces, I've had way better conversations.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I can't just I don't think everyone has, but like,
I've had amazing conversations with somebody I'm never going to
see again about like what are we interested in? What
are we looking for? Like what does this mean? Like
which I'm like, oh, okay, And that's obviously not like
neither of you are expecting that to be your life partner,
but you're able to have that conversation and it's so nice,
(35:53):
it's so lovely.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
It's why I love play parties.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
It's even like going to like a bathhouse because usually
there's like space for you all to like lounge or
talk and meet somebody and have a conversation and then
you go do the funny things. But it's like the
funny things, but there's like there's space to connect, and
it doesn't mean there's not pressure around it. There's not like,
oh again, we need to be in love now. It's
(36:16):
just like as humans, who the fuck are you?
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Fuck am I? And what do you like? And what
do I like?
Speaker 1 (36:21):
And now let's go have a good time. And I
think that that is not uh we demonize that and
it's like, no, that's that's great. You don't have to
You're not supposed to be wet or hard at the
of a finger. Like you are a human, you are
an emotional being, and even if the sex is a hookup,
it doesn't mean that you're not an emotional being.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Right, It doesn't mean you're not going to need aftercare
either one thousand or sex. Like I also think in
these experiences you're like, yeah, i'd love a text tomorrow, or.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Like oh this is what I this is what I need.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Because everyone wants something different and we don't really talk
about it.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yes, we're afraid to talk about it because we're afraid
to scare people off.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Quite honestly, if a person can't handle a conversation, then
scare them. Yeah, they're not like, what are you gonna
build with the money?
Speaker 3 (37:08):
You're not going to have like the most mind blowing
sex with somebody that you can't have this conversation with period.
The question was about women and famis, but I also
think I get a lot of submissions from men who
have so much fear around sharing that maybe they have
(37:29):
they think they're by that maybe they want to be pegged.
They're straight, but they want to be pegged like they
that they also have a lot of desires that are
not being vocalized, and I just think, yeah, it's so sad,
like there's just such an opportunity to communicate more with
your partner. And of course, like if you're dating now
(37:49):
and if the people listening are dating now, you're in
a perfect situation because you can start from ground zero
and like lay this foundation. But I do think for
long term couples it's still possible. It's a little harder
because you have to reverse engineer it, but there are
ways that you can start to bring this into the
relationship and it you know, what you bring.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Up that's so interesting, Like when you just thought about
like straight men and pegging or think that they're by
it's like, oh there is for all of us. There's
a shame culture, and so I want to acknowledge that
one of the reasons it might be scary to advocate
for oneself is because you've experienced you've experienced somebody rejecting
you or judging you, or critiquing or laughing at you,
(38:28):
and so it's easy for me to go, well, then
you're not compatible and fuck them.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
But you do have to build to that.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
You do have to like build a confidence in yourself
to know that what you're asking for is valid. Yeah,
that if you're asking to be pegged, it doesn't mean
anything other than you want to be pleasure and pleasure,
But how do you get to that confidence? And I
think it's in community. I think it's like seeking out
other sects. We just said, like, if you're in those
kink spaces, those are the spaces where we're having a
(38:57):
lot of times the most expansive conversations really because you're
around other folks who are sex positive. And so I
guess my suggestion would be somebody who's trying to learn
how to speak up for themselves is obviously like listening
to a podcast like this, but finding other sex positive
resources and finding sex positive community so that when you say, oh,
I'm interested in this thing, you're going to be met
(39:19):
with people who go oh interesting or cool or me too,
as opposed to if you're surrounded by people who have
a lot of insecurity. Honestly, like the person who's being judgmental,
it's really because they're being covert about their own insecurity, right.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
And it is really hard and people you can't like,
people might shame you. So it is about I love
what you said about building that internal security, but I
really have it a lot with my male followers who
are talking about, for instance, wanting to be dominated, wanting
to be more submissive. But I think I did polls
(39:55):
and it was like fifty percent of people with a
penis want to be submissive or want to be dominated.
So I think like also finding people that can help
that also normalize it so that you like, know, okay,
well I know at least fifty percent of people I'm like,
I am normal, Like like yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, well yeah, it's so interesting with men because it
becomes about their manhood, it really does.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah, it's like less so with women.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah, it's like if you want, if you want to
be dombed or you want to submit, now your manhood
means something. It means something, and sometimes there are women
who will reinforce that as well. So like it's where
we're all doing this, we're like from all sides, you know, we.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Can have to build the flow and one thing. So
I just created a toolkit help people, individuals and couples
talk about the stuff. So part of it's a pleasure
menu with two hundred fifty ideas, Oh my goodness, and
also from emotional intimacy through aftercare.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
We'll put this in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, oh yeah, and uh, but what I love about
that is now now we're not talking about what I
want versus you want with like one thing, we're like
looking at a whole thing. We're like, let's talk about
this whole section, like what are you interested in? And
maybe in that section is pegging, and in that section
is being more submissive, and in that section is nipple
(41:21):
clams what we're talking about. But then it becomes more
of a within this greater context. So then it's like, oh,
I didn't know you were interested in that. I don't
know how I feel about that, But like this one
I like too, I don't know there's.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Or this one I'm curious about, or this one I
don't don't have an opinion on it.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
I think maybe it brings an easier way to talk
about the scarier ones because you're covering it with things
that you feel more comfortable about.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
I think so, yeah, it's like it's it's always helpful
when you're like, oh, I read this thing or I
heard this thing, what do you think about it?
Speaker 2 (41:50):
And just kind of like pop, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
I had so many submissions once about arm pitlicking, and
I had a partner at the time. I'm like, I
never heard of this, and I'm like you, my first
verction was gross.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
But then I had like three.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Of them or four of them, so I'm like, okay.
So I texted my boyfriend at the time and I
was like, so, armpit looking is apparently a thing, and
he just goes all right, cleaner dirty.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
And I'm like, okay, period, like.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
We start clean. But it's just like that is a
way to bring it where you hear something on a
podcast or can you just say what do you think
of this?
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah, I love a muskie armpit.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
I love yeah, I love it. Workout and then let
me see that sniffet. It's my favorite. It's my absolute favorite.
I also like in terms of identifying one's own because
I really love rbds M so relationships, boundary desire, what's
safe sex and meaning yeah beautiful. I use the term
(42:45):
BEMA bm A for how to identify your turn on
so body, environment moods, so like what part of your
body do you want to be touched, licked, sniffed, kissed?
The environment is like where do you like to have sex?
Is it the kitchen? Is it the bedroom? Is it
the alleyway? Is it in the airplane bathroom? What's the
mood you want? Which is like, oh, I want certain lighting,
(43:06):
or want a playlist, or I want it in the
daytime a nighttime. And then the accoutrements like what are
the props that you need? So like I want a
dildo or I want a butt plug or loop loop
you know. But just like being able to and I
say to people, if you don't know what turns you on,
just start with that little category. As you discover things,
(43:27):
add it to your list so that when somebody asks
you what turns you on, you go, oh, I would
love a Victorian money playlist, or I love when you
sniff my my armpits.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
But like just start like sex is expanded.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yeah, so you can't be expected to do everything. So
I think we're collecting different tools. And also as you
get older, as your body changes, your turn ons are
going to change. They might expand, they might shrink, and
so like being able to like check in with yourself
periodically of like oh I was into that ten years ago,
but I'm into it now. Or I wasn't into that
but now totally into it.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
And that's why, again, we have to normalize these conversations
because they're not a one time thing.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Not a one time thing, they change. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Yes, I had that conversation with a partner who is like, oh,
you should just know and I was like.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
No, we've been to that for a while. And like
I would assume that you're growing and evolving, so what
you liked when we first got together may be different
yeah now, And so like it's important for us to
keep talking so we can update our our blueprints.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Bema Bema Yes, so cool, Bema bm A.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
It's a it actually means a platform to talk. Okay,
So that's why I like it because you got to
talk about your your things seema. Yes, okay, shall we
do our one last mess.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Okay. So it's a speed round of questions.
Speaker 3 (44:42):
Okay, I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
A round of questions that you can answer in one
word or one sentence.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
So first one is what celebrity or fictional character could
ruin your life and you'd say thank you?
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
We kind of talked about this, but I.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
Know I'm not going to say like this.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
It could be a celebrity or a fictional character that
can ruin your life and you would say thank you.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Okay, I really like the guy from Fourth Wing, but
I don't know. It's a book. It's a book, okay, fantasy.
It's a little bit smutty, but it's like with dragons.
Oh yeah, yeah, I'll take the Shadow Wielder okay, lovely,
I forget his name.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Minus Jason Momoa. What's your most controversial food opinion?
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Oh, that it should be eaten on the way home
from the grocery store. So I live a three minute
walk from the grocery store and I and there's a
bridge I crossed from the croy store home and I've
never yet in Amsterdam, and I've never not snacked on
the way home.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
I love that I love to get a chocolate pikie
for the road from Sprouts too, chocolate pikie and get
one for the road.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
I've loved that. Or some grapes.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Yeah, yeah, sure it was just like a little like you.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Have to get some of the grocery store to like
in the way.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Yes, but no, it doesn't even need to be like
a nauseable thing. I'll like break open.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Like, okay, I love I love that. What's your most
irrational ick?
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Oh? My most irrational ick. I met this guy once
who had kind of small feet, and he told me
about it, and then we went rock climb bouldering, and
then I just could only ever see him as like
he was really tall. I was like off balanced. He
was like always in my mind like a bit clumsy
and stuff. And I kept thinking of the small feet.
They weren't even like that small, but because he told me,
(46:32):
it really icked me. That was it?
Speaker 1 (46:36):
So people telling you their footside, is it stresses you
out a little bit?
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Or wasall?
Speaker 4 (46:41):
Well, it was just like I think he I don't know,
it was just a weird.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
I was like I could only see him like popping
around all of a sudden, I'm like, he doesn't seem
stable because he told me, he told you, which is
sad because it was a vulnerability maybe.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
And then I'm like, sture sometimes sometimes vulnerabilities, you know,
but it's an you know, it just can happen.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
It can happen.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
I didn't like him enough, you know, otherwise otherwise fair?
Speaker 1 (47:11):
What is a show you'll defend to the grave even
if it doesn't need defending?
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Hacks? I love hat amazing, what a great show.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
Yeah, well, I'm just I mean, there's other shows I
will defend to the grave, but Hacks just came to mind.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Also like, yeah, yeah, I like.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
How the ax is great.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
I defend Scandal it doesn't need defending, but I look
to the grave. I'll love me some Scandal. I'm watching
it again.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
And also like Vampire Dies. Okay if if, if I
defend to the grave.
Speaker 4 (47:39):
Now I'm thinking, like, what is it what you brought
up Scandal?
Speaker 3 (47:41):
Like it's made me open up to Vampire Diary.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah, okay, work, I love it. You love a fantasy.
Speaker 4 (47:47):
I know we haven't been like Disney and.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yes, okay, I live.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
What's the first song you'd play if you hijack the
ox chord?
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Right now?
Speaker 3 (47:57):
Chapel roone.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Oh yeah, I'm go.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
I just feel like that's so like unoriginal Pink Pony Club.
You know, the first time I heard that song was
a messy story too.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
I was at a Milkshake which is this amazing queer
festival in Amstredam. I was high off of my ass
and I was listening to Pink Pony Club at the
peak of my high at the stable that they had
with hobby horses, and it's a horsehead on a stick
(48:32):
and there were little jumps that you could do.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
And there's a video of.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
The first time I ever heard Pink Pony Club of
me galloping jumping over the thing and then being taken
off with security, like not security, but like with the
medics for my ankle. They thought I broke it, but
it was just a frame. That's my Pink Pony Club,
(48:57):
like our meet cute I love.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Yeah, Okay, if you could whisper one messy piece of
advice into the world's ear, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (49:05):
And doesn't have to be deep. It could be deep, it.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
Could oh, life short it desert first.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Love it t have those cookies. First last question, what
do you love most about yourself.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
Oh. I love that I am super passionate about what
I do and that I if I don't see something
in the world, I make it into reality.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
T Yeah, jess thank you so much for being in
our room. We'll see you next time. Great thy.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Well, you know we are hosts here, but hose with
hearts of Before you part ways, let me speak to yours.
I just loved this conversation with Jessica. I love talking
to somebody else who is incredibly sex positive and also
works in the sex space around sex education. It just
is always I get to learn so much. So, speaking
of which, here are some of my takeaways from the conversation.
(50:10):
One from her messy story, trust your instincts that they're
an asshole, okay, and you don't have to wait. You know, sometimes,
especially again for women, fems, queers, we really try to
be or we're rared to be amiable and to not
cause a fuss and to see things through rose colored glasses.
But you know in your body, You know in your
(50:31):
body when something feels off or when the energy isn't
quite right. And so I always say you can ask,
right because we never know, like people have their own stuff,
so you can always ask, hey, are you okay?
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Am I off? Or am I sensing something is off?
Speaker 1 (50:43):
And then see what they say, and based on what
they say, like this man who said he was thinking
about another girl, you gotta go.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
You gotta go. You don't have to wait, get out
of there.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
And I also love when she said it's that feeling
of wanting your mom to pick you up from your sleepover,
and you don't have to wait for that, like you
can pick yourself up. We have autonomy and we get
to be in charge about where we are. I love
that thing from the Tantra Temple party. Are you still
where you want to be? Such a beautiful question I
think to ask in any part of our life, like
(51:15):
as we're moving, as we're doing things, whether it's in
a relationship, whether it's at work, whether it's at a dinner,
you know, are you where you want to be? And
if the answer is no, what choices can you make
to shift that?
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Now?
Speaker 1 (51:28):
In certain circumstances, you may not be able to make
the change right away, but at least you're aware of it.
At least you're aware of it, and then you can
take charge as opposed to either numbing yourself or just
kind of being in a perpetual state of unrest without
any kind of language for why that unrest exists. You know,
(51:49):
I always say this, you know, whether it's I don't
know or or you do have an answer, whatever, those
answers are beautiful. Curiosity is beautiful. Answers allow us or
curiosity allows us to to live the life that we're
meant to live, as opposed to living based off of
(52:11):
a model that's been handed to us. So even if
we don't have the perfect answers for how we feel
or how to move differently, at least we're in motion.
At least we're in pursuit. And as you know, I
think I've said on this show many times, the journey
is the goal, progress, process. Those things are just as
(52:31):
valuable as the resolution or the answer itself. And finally,
I love I love this communication model. Obviously you know Beama.
If you've been listening to the show for a while,
you know my Beama model, body, environment, moods. But I
love this communication rbds M that Jessica offered. When you
(52:53):
are talking to a partner, you know, what are the relationships?
Are you in any of the relationships? What are you know?
Is this the only relationship. A look of a relationship boundaries, desires,
safe sex and meaning, and listen, you may not go
through you know, like I'm not telling you to. You know,
(53:13):
every partner you have give them a survey. But especially
when you're like vibing with somebody or you know, this
might seems like it might be more than just a
one off. You know, it's always good to have a
little model of communication in your back pocket so that
you make sure that you're aligned. Sometimes we like to
ignore things and then we fall deeper and deeper for
(53:37):
a person, and then eventually, listen, we don't have to
pay that bill at some point, So I always would
rather pay the bill at the top, rather ask the
questions early on so I can make an informed decision
about whether or not this is the right partnership or
the right alignment. Then ignore it and get deeper in,
and now everything is all tangled up, and I'm like, oh,
(53:57):
but I don't desire that, or that actually does cross
my boundary, or I want it to mean something different
than you wanted to mean. So RBDSM relationships, boundaries, desires,
safe sex and meaning.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
What did you learn? What are your.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
Takeaways of course, you can email me at tell Me
Something Messy at gmail dot com, and if you ever
want to submit a messy story or a question anonymously,
you can go to something messy dot com. I love
you so much, Thank you so much for listening to
Tell Me Something Messy. If you all enjoyed the show,
send me episode to someone else you might like it.
(54:34):
Tell Me Something Messy was executive produced by Ali Perry,
Gabrielle Collins and Yours Truly. Our producer and editor is
Vince de Johnny. The video of tell Me Something Messy
is produced by Des Lombardo and a special thank you
to Natalie Brandam who helps me organize and come up
with some of this mess tell Me Something Messy is
a production of iHeart Podcasts on the Outspoken Network. For
(54:55):
more podcasts, listen on the free iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you you get your podcasts.
You're listening to tell Me Something Messy with Brandon, Kyle
Goodman and iHeart podcasts on the Outspoken Network. Talking about relationships,
sex and identity always reminds me that being a human
is messy. So I wanted to create a compassionate space
where we could feel less alone and embrace our mess together,
the funny, the vulnerable, the cringe, and even the kinky.
(00:21):
Because every part of who we are matters. So do'll
be shy, baby, tell me something messy. Messy patrons, come on, baby,
welcome to the show. I am your messy mom, Brandon
Kyle Goodman, and you know what that means. It is
time for a guest. Now, while they get situated, we
will get our messy. Key Key started with a ho
manifest stove, so repeat after me aloud or in your head.
(00:44):
Grant me the serenity to unpack my shame, the courage
to heal, the wisdom to know that sex is not
about penetration, the audacity to advocate for my pleasure and boundaries,
the strength to not call my ex that fuck boy,
fuck girl, or fuck they, for it is better to
mass debate by myself in peace then to let someone
play in my motherfuck you face. Let the whommunity say holujah. Okay, y'all,
(01:08):
Today we have the deliciously unapologetic pen slinging queen of
cartoon chaos, Jessica Stall. She's the mind behind Vanilla Cool Dance,
the webcomic that will have you laughing, gasping, and texting
your best friend. Oh my god, she really drew that.
She is here to talk about love, dating, bodies, and
every messy, shamefree thing in between. So y'all please help me.
(01:31):
Welcome to our messy living room, Jessica Stall, Hi Jazz, Hello.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
To the messy living room. It's quite clean, but we're
the mess, so you get it.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I'm ready to bring the mess.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yes, before we get started, we have our messy mandates
for our messy Kiki, so things get to be unprocessed.
Any opinions shared have the right to shift. Change of
all today tomorrow, ten years from now. And if during
the Kiki, something feels too personal or unintentionally offends, we
use the safe word foosball, which gives us a moment
to pivot and address accordingly.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I love that, I love a word.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
We started the lou breaker. Yes, okay, so we're gonna
play a game of smash or pass. I'm going to
give you a prompt. You don't tell me if you
smash it or you pass it. Okay, smash your past.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Morning sex smash. Yeah, in theory for me, it's a smash.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
But because I I dabble in the anal of it
all interest, I don't want you and me in the
morning like that.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I have to I have to go to the bathroom
right first, but yeah, I get that, and then then.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Then it's like once a while, like I'm not feeling
sexy after, you know, like I need some time.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
So morning night times better.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Nighttime is a way better for me. Morning sex in
theory again is okay. So I heard that once you
start douching, you can never not douche again. So I
think back in the day before I understood what doucheing was,
I could have morning sets and it didn't bug me.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
But now I'm very regular.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Got it, got it, which is good.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
And I wake up and I was gonna say, tm I,
but the show is you know, I have to poop
twice before I leave the house.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So I wake up.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I'm like, I'm like once a once a day, once
a morning.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Once a morning. I'm twice in the morning at least.
Sometimes it'll be three times. It's just crazy at doing
I don't it's not fun. But but the fiber intake.
Really as soon as I get up, I have my
green juice in a little water, and then I'm ready
to go. But then I don't leave the house until
I have the second one, at least because I because
I don't because I don't like to poop in public restrooms,
(03:29):
spash pas.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Fast. I mean, I feel like neither.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I wouldn't like smash it, but I wouldn't like.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
If I need to go.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
But it's not ideal.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
It's not ideal.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
But I would never like just hold it for hours.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I would.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I think there's some.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Repression there, absolutely repression that I'm comfortable with. I just
don't like. I don't, Yeah, I don't. I don't like.
I don't like other people. So so I don't like
people to hear me.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
And I like to try to think about.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
It, you know, and I like to take my time.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I'm I'm definitely a girl who's in there, like on
the I'm enjoying myself like it's an experience.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
It's an awful experience. I'm trying to make it softer.
I wish he did nice lighting. Yeah, give me.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Some nice lighting, give me some reading material, and I
love it. But you can't have that in everyone's public restroom.
I also hate to be pooping next to somebody else pooping.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
My god, do that.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
That would be a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah. My heck is I put my headphones in.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Oh wow, so you have done it before.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
You just rarely.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Put my headphones in.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Because I'm like, I don't want to hear what you're doing.
I don't want to think about you hearing what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
And then also the worst is because I think about
this in the gym, Like if you see somebody hot
and you're like, I can't go poop.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Right now, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I'm like, I'm not gonna go poop because I see
me go.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Then he's going to get thinking about in there.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah he might. He might, unless well, I guess if
he sat down next.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
To the stall, then we would be bonding over the
fact that we're both shipping at the gym or in
this public space.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
But U suid that doesn't happen, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Which is why the only reason I would be straight,
the only reason I'd be ahead of a sexual is
because I would never have to worry about my crush
seeing me poop.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
That's a great reason to.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Be I still get like shy. I'm like, can they
hear you from the bedroom? Like, I don't know?
Speaker 4 (05:19):
I get sure?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Can I take something? I say?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, tell me how you like fact check that you
leave your phone out there to record it to like check?
Can they check?
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Like how would you know?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah, especially if you're it's a farty poop, I had to,
you know, like when you I always say, if your
fart smell, you have to poop. People don't believe me,
but like if you're if your fart is smelling, girl,
you have to go.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
To the bad That makes sense absolutely. If you have
a clo it's not you're fine.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
But if if that part smells, it's because it's your
body's saying. We got to get the tout. So I
went to a hook up and I was topping, but
my stomach was gurgly. And then I went into the
bathroom and I pee, And sometimes when you pee, it
relaxes you, so a little comes out.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
So I farted. I tooted.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
It wasn't loud, but it's smelled. And then I was like,
I'm staying here for a second. And then I walked
out and I was like, okay, cool, let's get back
into it because on top of it, so it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
But then he decided to go back and I was like,
oh lord, and we did. We ignored it.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
But I did hear him go oh, and I was like, yeah,
maybe no, come come, come bent over, let me fuck
you so funny. Last one smaster pass an excess hot sibling,
pass past.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, I'm going to pass.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Okay, yeah, an excess hot sibling.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
I'm gonna guess. It depends how like, it depends on how.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It ended, because I could be petty, but I will
also pass. But yeah, I'm I'm ana pass. I'm a
past messy not sloppy you think. Okay, by the way
you won the game, yay, lollipop pick one. There's so
many different this season.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Look like I guess I'm definitely getting a blow.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Pop or Apple Apple.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yes, perfect, I'm gonna take one of these. Okay, you
can you can choose to eat on that. Right now,
you have to tell me something messy. Okay, So my
favorite thing about lollipops is that's my after care. So
after I have some good sex, I have lollipop. There's
something about something sweet after you come. Highly recommend, highly recommend.
(07:20):
Also love a talking to cookie. So Jess, can you
tell me something messy?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, I can tell you something about please.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
So I recently went to meet a guy I knew
in Turkey on a yacht trip with his family for
a week.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Wait, went to Turkey on a yacht trip with this
guy's family and we just met.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
We had spent a little bit of time together, but
we had connected for a few months, like we met
in real life while I was traveling, and he had
invited me on this trip and we had been talking
for quite a few months. So I thought, okay, let's go.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
And I got off the boat five days early.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Why Yeah, And that was messy, but I was really
proud of myself.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
You got off because it didn't go well.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Didn't go well. He was sick, which is fine. I
don't know if men experienced sickness different and just become
not super nice.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
But it was an asshole when he got sick.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yeah, but I think maybe he was just kind of
an asshole, but like a small one, but like a
it was all too small to really understand what was happening.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Were like one of the flags, one of your like
you're like, oh, this thing he did that was actually asshole.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yes, Well, when I had brought up the what was
happening and that I didn't feel that we were connecting,
and I at this point, I you know, I would
not do well on reality TV. This was like a
pressure cooker. We're like on a boat trip stuck together.
So like my emotions were also quite high. That is
like not going well. So I was probably crying and
not doing very well. But I communicated like that I
(09:00):
feel like we were connecting, and and his reaction was
very I'm sick. If I wasn't we would be connecting.
I can't connect. I don't have capacity. Also, there was
this other girl, and.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I'm like, there's another girl on the yacht.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
No, not on the yacht, and but apparently there had been.
He was not feeling so good about how that had ended.
Uh huh, And I think I said, I don't even
know what to say, and then he goes, hmm, you
could say thank you so much for bringing me on
this trip to Turkey and for seeing this beautiful yeah
(09:34):
part of the world. I'm so sorry you're sick. I'm
so sorry that you're having this difficult time with this
other girl, and let's try and make the most of it.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
He was you to say, I was sorry that you
have a difficult with another girl when you're the girl
in the yacht.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
So I got off.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Good for you, Good for you, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
And then I spent the rest of the week in Turkey.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
So you so you just like made your own play
in Turkey.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
I mean it's so funny because when.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
People say, oh, wasn't it scary to get off the
boat and like be alone in Turkey, I'm like, that
is my I thrive by myself traveling. I'm a huge,
shallow traveler. So I felt amazing. To me. The messy part,
or the in my mind was that I have worked
hard to like become secure, let's say, but I still
(10:26):
have that Oh maybe I should wait, Maybe it's not
as bad. Maybe I'm being dramatic. Maybe he's actually really
a nice guy.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
I let me wait and wait and wait.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Making these excuses.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yes, and also I have to tell eighteen people that
I don't know, like I'm getting off the boat, Like,
how did that go?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Did you have dinner? Like I'm out? Was it dramatic?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
No, well, I don't know. I've no idea what happened
after I left. I think I woke up that morning
and I realized, Okay, we're at port. I don't know
the next time, we're going to be like in a town.
And I thought, okay, maybe I'm being dramatic. He said
he made one or two more small digs at me
that morning, and like just like like anything I kind
(11:07):
of said was the wrong thing to say, or or yeah,
like yeah, just like snappy and and not not so
it didn't feel good. They were just like small digs
like micro Russians or whatever that like make you feel
shitty about yourself. And so he said one more and
(11:30):
I was like, you know, I'm getting off. I just said, hey,
I'm leaving the boat. He was completely surprised, and and
then I just told his family, like.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Something came up.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
It's crazy, like I have to leave right now.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, like gosh, I have to.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Get up now.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Maybe did you like the family?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Did you like the fa They were great?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
They were great.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, they were great, Yeah, good for you. Yeah, well
I think the Yeah, what do you think? I would
never have done that before. So I have been in
situations on like years ago. I remember another instance where
I was on a uh I think like a third
or fourth date and the guy came and he was
(12:11):
feeling very tired and he was sharing, oh I'm so tired,
and I kind of kept waiting for the date to
like get better. We went back to his house, he
was still being like, oh, I'm really tired, blah blah.
And instead of me leaving and being like, hey you're
boring or like hey this isn't fun, let me get
out of here, I kind of stayed. And then eventually
I said what is going on? And he said I
slept with somebody the night before and then he asked
(12:32):
me to send.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
He told me dinner was expensive and can I wul
I mind paying half the bill?
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, so at dinner he was taking you out too, Yes,
of you. I have heard things and we think we
talked about on the show.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
But like people asking like if a date doesn't go well,
then they'll they'll ask you a Benmo requests you for
half the date or something like that.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
That's yeah, oh, like what if you if you can't
afford it?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Seriously, this is very Dutch. Also, what like what is
that about?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Because you live in Amsterdam.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I live in Amsterdam, and so I have had many
a like TICKI. We have it's like our Venmo many
a TICKI scent, like when I'm like, hey, I didn't
really feel connection, Okay, here's the tiki or wait yeah
I wait.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
So this is like a growing thing that like if
somebody pays for a date and then you were like
I don't want a second date, they go.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
They could they do you think that's right?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
No? I think it's ridiculous. I think it's ridiculous. And
I also think, oh, okay, so you can show face
on like a date in public and then behind the
scenes you're going to be like you're going to invoice me.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, So I don't Yeah, I would rather honestly split
on the first date than for the second day or
the third date. But yeah, I don't like this idea
that they're that if you went out with them again,
then they would have kept the Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
That to me as somebody who like it's a it's
a flag that somebody's keeping tabs, and if they're keeping tabs,
then I would imagine they're doing it not only financially,
but just like kind of everywhere else whereas if I'm
looking for goracious, if I'm dating you, I'm hoping that
eventually this wie a partnership, and if we're partners, we
do things together. And so I'm not not saying that
we won't eventually need to figure out what the finances
(14:09):
or whatever, but I'm not like getting you back, but
at least and go my way.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
True, but at least in that case, like I'm rejecting them.
This was like I've had two instances where I'm being
rejected and then they invoiced me and I'm like, like
this guy slept at the girl the night before, super tired,
and then he's like, can you pay for half the bill?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Wow? Yeah? Fight yeah, fight.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
So I would say I've now graduated because in that situation,
I stayed and I waited and I waited, and I
always think about that. I'm like, oh my god, and
now I got off.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So good yeah for you, Good for you. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I think when we when we noticed that it's a
ref lag, we need to I think love ourselves enough
to like piece the fuck out exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
And you know what somebody said that has really stayed
with me. They shared that they go to a lot
of like Tantra temp nights m M, and they said
at some of them, they ask you, like mid engagement
in the microphone, they'll be like, are you still where
you want to be? Check in with your body? Are
you still where you want to be? Yeah? You can
(15:13):
change your mind, And so I think in that situation,
I'm like, it could be better, like who knows, we
don't know, but like, am I still where I want
to be in this moment?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
No? This sucks.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I am out of here. I'm not going to be
treated like this.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
That's tea like to be able to check in with
your body and be like am I happy right now?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Or is this where I want to be? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
And then taking back the autonomy to make a change
and likely, oh I don't have.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
To you know what is?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
I feel like sometimes we're all because we spend our childhood.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Let's go down this funtain.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
We spend our childhood and we spend our teenage years
and our college years being told where to be, when
to be there. I think we forget as adults that
we have autonomy. Yeah, and so we're like we're stuck
in that loop of like, oh, I'm supposed to be
here at nine to five, I'm supposed to be at
this thing because my mom told me so, because my
boss told me so.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
And it's like no, in your life, you don't have
to be there.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
You can actually make a decision and go, oh, I
don't want I don't want this anymore.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I can go I can leave.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, I remember. I mean this is the feeling of
the boat that I think, well you can relate to.
It was I was sleeping the night before I left,
and I thought, oh my god, I wish my mom
could come pick me up, like from my you know,
like from a sleepover where you're like, I don't want
to be here anything.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
I take myself up.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I can pick myself and pick myself up from.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
The from the shitty sleepover.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
About absolutely also to that point, like, no, no vacation
is worth your peace of mind.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
I could take myself from Turkey.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah about your Yeah, I'll give fuk about your money.
I'll give a fuck about where we are.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
It was like his yah or his money.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
It was like it's.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Just a family. Which is sorry. I do not want
to sound ungrateful. It was super nice to be invited, Yeah,
but also like, but.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You should be treated well when you're Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
I would feel so bad if I invited somebody on
a trip and even if I didn't agree with them,
if they were not having a good time, I would
feel horrible.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, I'd want to like make it better, even though
I was sick. I'd be like, oh, I'm sick right now.
We can't engage in this.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
I wish we could.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Or but also the.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Fact that there was like another girl involved is and
him asking you to have empathy for a complicated relationship
with another girl?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah? Is mental? Is mental?
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Men can be mental. Shall we do some mess email?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
As always, your submissions remain anonymous.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Okay, Jess.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
So this one says I crashed a work event because
I thought it was open bar. Turns out it was
a retirement party. I left with a gift bag and
the retiree's phone number.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Have you that is amasic?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Have you ever crashed an event before and then like
found a boy.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I haven't found a boy, but I have crashed like
a barmits for before.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Know how did that happen?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
I think I was like on vacation. I don't think
we like crashed very long.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
But but you saw some yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I did not pick up any thirteen year.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Olds, okayarments, but you saw some good.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
I think we didn't know what it was and then
we like approached and then we were boarded once we
found out it was an enparments.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah that's fair.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I've crashed many a party, but I guess it wasn't
really crashing so much as you know, being a plus
one and like showing up randomly.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
You were invited.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Maybe, But I feel like I'm crashing because like I
didn't know the host and like it was like like
they're not getting approval for me to come.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
It's just like, oh.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Come with Yeah, and I those are those stressed me
out actually, because I always want.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
To be welcome.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I want to you want to know when you're welcomed.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
But I like the idea of crashing and event and
picking some money up, especially retire read they got money
now saying they got access to that account now just
thinking ahead, you know, saying okay, which we love this one,
says Jessica and MESSI mom. I had this guy over
for the first time, and everything was going great. We
were watching a movie, cuddled up. The vibes were immaculate.
(19:17):
Then my phone died, so I went to grab my
charger from the nightstand, except I opened the wrong drawer
and boom, there it was my full collection of toys,
loop and things I don't even remember buying. He froze,
I panicked, and I just blowed out those are for
a friend.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Now I don't know if I should address it, own
it or just hope he thinks it was a fever dream.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Oh my gosh, you should be proud of your joys.
This is a.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Collections you just like put on the Little mer Speaking
of Disney, you put on these are a few of
my favorite things.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Do you like do a show and tell?
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yes? I think if we're fucking and you see I
got toys, that to me is exciting, Like.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Yeah, I mean, here's what the reaction and what? So
did they.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Say they said you froze, she panicked? Or I'm making assumption.
Maybe it was two guys. But the guy froze and
then the person who wrote in panicked, And now they
don't know if they should address it.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I think one you address.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
It, definitely addressed.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, yeah, like otherwise it's like quiet tension.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yeah you really? Hey, I know you saw them.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
I saw toys.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I know you probably don't think that I'm saving them
for a friend. I got nervous.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
They're mine. Are you curious in that?
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Like I love using toys in the bedroom. I mean
to be fair, I work in the sexual WANTA space.
So I have so many toys in my house. I
don't know, he's forty thirty wow, four maybe like thirty
thirty toys, Yeah, something like that. I have.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
I have four I have, I have I have a
dildo about this song. And then I have like which
I never use. But it's a kid, you not. It's
this fat in this big but like fat and so
like we just never get there. I have like the
I have a couple of vibrating cock cranings. I have
like an anal training plug situation.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
What about like a stroker?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Okay, so I don't have a stroker, but I'm good.
I see I never find anything for my penis satisfied.
Like I have a flashlight that I use a couple
of times, and now you know it just kind of
stays there. Yeah, I don't find anything on my penis.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Like the sensation you don't like.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, it's not, it's not It doesn't do it.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I would rather just use my hand, okay, but it
doesn't like anything that I've used, which I'm so down.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
If y'all got toys to sense and I have a recommendation, okay, beautiful,
what's the recommendation?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Well, I love there's a stroker from fun Factory. Okay,
I forget the name of it, to be fair, maybe
I liked it more than my boyfriend all the time.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Okay, but how do you work?
Speaker 3 (21:54):
What was it? What does it look like so that
this one looked a little bit like a claw? Okay,
and then you go like this with it and I
I kind of sat on top. Well I did because
I was with them, but like they could also just
use it.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Then there's the EVO from s Vibe okay, and that's
I can show you after. But that's really cool because
insert of thing. Yeah, we can sort of thing, but
it like you can use it so that it does
some ball action, or you could do it so that
it's on the head like the thing. I'll show you
not explaining it very.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Well, that's right, we'll put well, we'll super yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I really I've learned that I love a little bit
of pain, and so I'm curious about ball clamps. My
partner has one that like a cockwork that like attaches
to the walls as well, which sounds like it would
be exciting. I also want to I'm gonna need to
do this nipple clamps.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
I like nipple clamp.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Really do you like when you are in your partner?
I mean, yeah, I love to have my I So
I used to have gayana kamastia, which is when you
develop extra estrogen and so a male body, it creates
a breast issue. So my nipples were sensitive and then
I have surgery to have that removed, and then I
lost sensation on my nipples.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
But then I don't have any sense really not that much.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Okay, okay either.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
So that's why I like it.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Oh that's where look because it feels I pierced my
nipple on Christmas.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Eve a couple of years ago, way to celebrate the birth.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Of Jesus, and now I have sensation back, and so like,
I love having my nipples like squeezed and played with
and I want to get a nipple clip. I just
bought a handcuffs for my partner because he likes to
be restrained. And they're like these fuzzy, fuzzy red ones
because you know, I want the because I'm still about like,
I don't want.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Hard nice textures. Yes, textures, but they should definitely like
I think, first of all, regardless of this guy, there
are people out there that would love to explore and
play with with you with them, So first of all,
just like, is so normal that you have and so
(24:00):
regardless of their reaction, which we cannot control, I think
if you're confident in it and also are just like
inviting them into exploring it with you, then the rest
is just to see what he does with it.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
So I personally don't like toys by myself, but I
love have a friend who loves toys. He will like
clean out to use toys, and I'm like that if
I'm cleaning out, I want a dick. But you can
use toys with me with the partner, So like, partners
using toys on me is really fun. I remember I
had a guy. It was one of the It was
an afternoon sex. It was like eleven am. In the afternoon,
(24:39):
and I was downtown, Like you live downtown, So I
went downtown like eleven am. And he's fucking me and
then he pulls out a bunch of toys and then
he starts using these toys on me. And then he's
like using the toys. He's like deepeeing me with a
toy and his dick. It was to the point, jess
I swear to you. We we finished, and then I
canceled the rest of my day.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I went home, out the chocolatees, I closed the blinds,
I sat on the couch.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I like, turn on some TV, and I just like,
let my body enjoy itself.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
So toys can really, yeah, do something? Do something?
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Okay, this one says Hi Messi, Mom and Jessica. For
most of my life, I froze up in the bedroom.
I didn't know what I wanted, and even when I did,
I was too afraid or ashamed to say it out loud.
My messy question is why is it so hard, especially
for women and fems, to speak up about what we
want in bed? And how do we start moving from
shame to real intimacy.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I have a lot to say on this.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Beautiful Let's go I'm ready.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
So I think that, especially as a woman myself, that
first of all, growing up, I never realized that my
pleasure was valid. And I think so many of us
don't know that. We know that sex ends when your
male partner has an orgasm. We know that if they
aren't that we're probably doing something wrong. But it's really
(26:03):
about like giving a blowjob, it's really about servicing the
penis and not so much about It's very penis centric,
and I mean, and our partners grew up watching the
same porn and grew up in the same society that
we did, so they also probably think they can, just,
for instance, have sex with somebody who has a volva
(26:26):
and they will just orgasm from penetration, when so few
of us actually orgasm from penetration a lot. We need
the literal stimulation. So I think, first that's a big component.
We don't even realize it's valid. And then secondly, we
don't really know how to explore ourselves. We don't know how,
and if we don't explore ourselves, how can we communicate
(26:47):
what we like. So I think it's really helped me
has been not only realizing, Okay, my pleasure is valid,
which amazing partners have helped me realize that. I remember
the first time a guy I went down on me
twice in a row and I was like I already
came and he's like, yeah, I know, And I was like,
wait a minute, somebody could love this, like somebody could
(27:08):
get off it is their pleasure to give me pleasure
with such a game changer. And then once I started
to explore myself more and realize that my partner could
like it, I think just over time you get more
and more confident communicating what you like. But I think
it's first knowing your pleasure's valid. Second, understanding all the
(27:31):
options that you could get, Like there's as you said,
I think sex is so expansive. Pleasure is so expansive.
There's a million different things that you could have somebody
do to you or that you could do to somebody else.
So kind of understanding the menu of options that you
have and kind of figuring out what you would like
and just say I think it's super sexy when somebody
(27:52):
says to you, like, what it is there fantasizing about
doing to you or what it is that they you
would So I also think.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
To you what you said earlier in your messy's story.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
It's having the uh, what we're going to use, having
the audacity and the courage to pick partners who are
open to your pleasure. Yes, right, like that you don't
have to settle. I think that uh. And I think
that women, fems, and bottoms actually have a lot in
common because we are receiving the penis, and penis owners
(28:29):
can often not always their fault, but just by culture
just be centered around themselves. Sex education is centered around
just put a condom on, like it's all about the penis,
and it's and and for the volve it's like, don't
get pregnant. That's like yeah, kind of yeah, but never
like what is your pleasure? And and then we start
to make the clitterists and the volva complicated and it's like, no,
(28:51):
just maybe ask a question, maybe maybe it talk to
your partner and see what it is.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
And to your point, I think there's also a big
orgasm gap with like between two penis partner is like
the bottom, for instance, not having an orgasm as much
as the top. I think because they also taking that.
I guess it's a heteronormative like narrative that they're then
copy pasting on telling.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
You right, like You're like, I'm a whole and I
should be grateful that this person wants to fuck me,
and I shouldn't have any wants or desires or needs. Yeah,
so like even like I shouldn't expect my partner to
eat my ass or eat my pussy before they fuck me.
And it's like that's kind of like you know, listen,
everyone has their thing. But for the most part, when
I hear oh, I don't want to eat ass or
I don't want to eat pussy, I'm always like, huh, well,
(29:34):
are there other things that you want.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
To do to like, you know, warm this up, and
do you also expect me to do it?
Speaker 2 (29:40):
And like what do you like? What's the what's the
what's the thing.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
But I kind of learned from myself when I finally
had a partner who did they just wanted like they
want to just eat ass for the longest time and
got off on that. I was like, Oh, this is possible,
and so it's actually more so about me really a
boundary what kind of partners I engage with.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yeah, I love that and something that's helped me, which
people a lot of people are very like not everyone
is going to want to do. But I've started recently
with newer partners having it's called like it's called the
RBDSM top huh. So it's like our stands for relationships,
Like is there anyone else that needs to know about
(30:22):
this depending on if they're you know, we don't know who.
We can't presume somebody's monogamous or not or so relationship
status be for boundaries so like, and I think this
can be replicated, like no matter how many times you
have sex, I mean, maybe you don't want to do
this all the time, but like your boundaries shift depending
on the night. Maybe with my long term partner, I'm like, okay,
today I actually just want like touching. I don't want
(30:44):
any penetration, Like I just want intimacy in that way. Yeah,
so boundaries desires so like I would really love to
feel connected. I would really love to feel you like
slowly move your hands up and down. My thought. And
I think even the most more specific you get, the
sexier that can be than safe sex. How are you
(31:07):
having safe sex? And meaning so what do we want
this to mean? Is this a one night stand? Is
this like, uh, do I want after care after and
I think having just start normalizing conversations about intimacy in general. Yes,
like and it doesn't need to be in the bedroom,
it can be outside the bedroom. But like, the easier
you start can integrate these conversations, that's going to set
(31:28):
you up for success.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I can.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
I want one hundred percent agree that, like the time
to have the conversation isn't actually when we're about to fuck. Yeah,
it's like when we're just like having dinner is like
a time to talk about like when the stakes are
like low, even if we're like like even if you
know it's a hookup run on one of the apps,
it's like in that exchange, just being like what turns
you on or what do you like or what don't
you like? Or what are your boundaries or what are
(31:51):
you looking for? Is such a If somebody can't handle that,
then that to me is a flag for like cool,
This might not be a partner. Doesn't mean they're bad
or whatever, but I might not be compatible because I
want to be with a partner who's down to have curious, Yeah, curious,
who's curious about themselves, curious about me, And even if
they don't have an answer, are like open to exploring together,
(32:13):
figuring it out, because sometimes people don't know.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Nottally okay, and I think people get super insecure and
so they kind of just shut down the conversation or
they say whatever you want, that's like the biggest thing.
I've done it too, And I think, oh my god,
this person has asked me what do you want? Which
is not the way I would necessarily advise somebody to
ask the question. But when you say whatever you want
or like this is great, like you are not giving
(32:36):
them anything to work with, like no information. This person
is asking how can I pleasure you? How can I
make this experience better for you? And you've got nothing,
like yeah, say anything.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
But also I think that there might be some socialization
where we're like, oh, I'm not allowed to have totally
I'm not allowed to especially for women in fems like
I'm not allowed to advocate for myself.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I should just defer.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I mean, I one of these I doing this podcast
is because I see a lot of relationship podcasts where
there's a lot of conversation where like the woman is
the wife and like she they are literally saying, you're
supposed to bow down to the man.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
I'm like in.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Twenty twenty five, we're having twenty twenty we're still saying
that that's insane. Like, no, like, you get to have
autonomy here, you get to have boundaries here, you get
to say, oh, like this idea that I wish I could,
like remember what podcasts, but I've seen a couple of
them where it's like if your man wants to have sex,
you should want to have sex. It's like no, no, no, no,
(33:32):
no no no, that's that's so toxic and so backwards.
You you have the right to consent what happens to
your body, and you have the right to say, oh,
I'm not desiring anything right now or for me to
get to that space where I want to.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
But I need this is what I need.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah. And also I think like what you're talking about
in terms of shutting down sex or like so many
of us look at it as black and white, like Okay,
we're gonna have sex, which means in course or not.
But I think what people miss a lot is like
the intimacy. So to be having sex a lot of
the times you're the reason it's a no is because
(34:10):
you're like not connected to your body. Yes, So there's
a million things that you could do with your partner
that may or may not lead to sex, that can
help you connect, drop be more present, drop into your
body more that maybe you do want to end up
having sex, but at least you feel intimacy and the
least you feel connection. And we never really talk about that.
(34:30):
It's always like, oh, I'm always shut down, but okay,
you're shut down because it's like, do you want to
have sex?
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah, I think after Branessa Mirin came on the show
and said, you know, sex starts, Uh, I'm gonna butcher it.
But like sex starts at the end of the last
the last round, right like as soon as like it
begins again four our four plate. It's our conversation, it's
the questions we're asking, it's the fantasies we're sharing. Like
all of that leads to then now we're ready. But
(34:55):
it's like that I actually used to feel feel shame
for needing emotional connection.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
I didn't know that I was allowed to need that
because emotional connection or intimacy gets categorized as oh, we're
going to get married now yeah, or like we have
to be in love, and it's like, no, I can
be intimate with the person I just met in the
dark room. It's just about a connection. It could be
that we've danced, it could be that we asked a
couple each other a couple of questions. You know, it
(35:23):
doesn't have to be, oh, now we're going to move
in with each other.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
And I don't know about you, but in dark rooms
or space like kink spaces, I've had way better conversations.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
I can't just I don't think everyone has, but like,
I've had amazing conversations with somebody I'm never going to
see again about like what are we interested in? What
are we looking for? Like what does this mean? Like
which I'm like, oh, okay, And that's obviously not like
neither of you are expecting that to be your life partner,
but you're able to have that conversation and it's so nice,
(35:53):
it's so lovely.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
It's why I love play parties.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
It's even like going to like a bathhouse because usually
there's like space for you all to like lounge or
talk and meet somebody and have a conversation and then
you go do the funny things. But it's like the
funny things, but there's like there's space to connect, and
it doesn't mean there's not pressure around it. There's not like,
oh again, we need to be in love now. It's
(36:16):
just like as humans, who the fuck are you?
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Fuck am I? And what do you like? And what
do I like?
Speaker 1 (36:21):
And now let's go have a good time. And I
think that that is not uh we demonize that and
it's like, no, that's that's great. You don't have to
You're not supposed to be wet or hard at the
of a finger. Like you are a human, you are
an emotional being, and even if the sex is a hookup,
it doesn't mean that you're not an emotional being.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Right, It doesn't mean you're not going to need aftercare
either one thousand or sex. Like I also think in
these experiences you're like, yeah, i'd love a text tomorrow, or.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Like oh this is what I this is what I need.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Because everyone wants something different and we don't really talk
about it.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yes, we're afraid to talk about it because we're afraid
to scare people off.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Quite honestly, if a person can't handle a conversation, then
scare them. Yeah, they're not like, what are you gonna
build with the money?
Speaker 3 (37:08):
You're not going to have like the most mind blowing
sex with somebody that you can't have this conversation with period.
The question was about women and famis, but I also
think I get a lot of submissions from men who
have so much fear around sharing that maybe they have
(37:29):
they think they're by that maybe they want to be pegged.
They're straight, but they want to be pegged like they
that they also have a lot of desires that are
not being vocalized, and I just think, yeah, it's so sad,
like there's just such an opportunity to communicate more with
your partner. And of course, like if you're dating now
(37:49):
and if the people listening are dating now, you're in
a perfect situation because you can start from ground zero
and like lay this foundation. But I do think for
long term couples it's still possible. It's a little harder
because you have to reverse engineer it, but there are
ways that you can start to bring this into the
relationship and it you know, what you bring.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Up that's so interesting, Like when you just thought about
like straight men and pegging or think that they're by
it's like, oh there is for all of us. There's
a shame culture, and so I want to acknowledge that
one of the reasons it might be scary to advocate
for oneself is because you've experienced you've experienced somebody rejecting
you or judging you, or critiquing or laughing at you,
(38:28):
and so it's easy for me to go, well, then
you're not compatible and fuck them.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
But you do have to build to that.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
You do have to like build a confidence in yourself
to know that what you're asking for is valid. Yeah,
that if you're asking to be pegged, it doesn't mean
anything other than you want to be pleasure and pleasure,
But how do you get to that confidence? And I
think it's in community. I think it's like seeking out
other sects. We just said, like, if you're in those
kink spaces, those are the spaces where we're having a
(38:57):
lot of times the most expansive conversations really because you're
around other folks who are sex positive. And so I
guess my suggestion would be somebody who's trying to learn
how to speak up for themselves is obviously like listening
to a podcast like this, but finding other sex positive
resources and finding sex positive community so that when you say, oh,
I'm interested in this thing, you're going to be met
(39:19):
with people who go oh interesting or cool or me too,
as opposed to if you're surrounded by people who have
a lot of insecurity. Honestly, like the person who's being judgmental,
it's really because they're being covert about their own insecurity, right.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
And it is really hard and people you can't like,
people might shame you. So it is about I love
what you said about building that internal security, but I
really have it a lot with my male followers who
are talking about, for instance, wanting to be dominated, wanting
to be more submissive. But I think I did polls
(39:55):
and it was like fifty percent of people with a
penis want to be submissive or want to be dominated.
So I think like also finding people that can help
that also normalize it so that you like, know, okay,
well I know at least fifty percent of people I'm like,
I am normal, Like like yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, well yeah, it's so interesting with men because it
becomes about their manhood, it really does.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah, it's like less so with women.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah, it's like if you want, if you want to
be dombed or you want to submit, now your manhood
means something. It means something, and sometimes there are women
who will reinforce that as well. So like it's where
we're all doing this, we're like from all sides, you know, we.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Can have to build the flow and one thing. So
I just created a toolkit help people, individuals and couples
talk about the stuff. So part of it's a pleasure
menu with two hundred fifty ideas, Oh my goodness, and
also from emotional intimacy through aftercare.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
We'll put this in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, oh yeah, and uh, but what I love about
that is now now we're not talking about what I
want versus you want with like one thing, we're like
looking at a whole thing. We're like, let's talk about
this whole section, like what are you interested in? And
maybe in that section is pegging, and in that section
is being more submissive, and in that section is nipple
(41:21):
clams what we're talking about. But then it becomes more
of a within this greater context. So then it's like, oh,
I didn't know you were interested in that. I don't
know how I feel about that, But like this one
I like too, I don't know there's.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Or this one I'm curious about, or this one I
don't don't have an opinion on it.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
I think maybe it brings an easier way to talk
about the scarier ones because you're covering it with things
that you feel more comfortable about.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
I think so, yeah, it's like it's it's always helpful
when you're like, oh, I read this thing or I
heard this thing, what do you think about it?
Speaker 2 (41:50):
And just kind of like pop, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
I had so many submissions once about arm pitlicking, and
I had a partner at the time. I'm like, I
never heard of this, and I'm like you, my first
verction was gross.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
But then I had like three.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Of them or four of them, so I'm like, okay.
So I texted my boyfriend at the time and I
was like, so, armpit looking is apparently a thing, and
he just goes all right, cleaner dirty.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
And I'm like, okay, period, like.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
We start clean. But it's just like that is a
way to bring it where you hear something on a
podcast or can you just say what do you think
of this?
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah, I love a muskie armpit.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
I love yeah, I love it. Workout and then let
me see that sniffet. It's my favorite. It's my absolute favorite.
I also like in terms of identifying one's own because
I really love rbds M so relationships, boundary desire, what's
safe sex and meaning yeah beautiful. I use the term
(42:45):
BEMA bm A for how to identify your turn on
so body, environment moods, so like what part of your
body do you want to be touched, licked, sniffed, kissed?
The environment is like where do you like to have sex?
Is it the kitchen? Is it the bedroom? Is it
the alleyway? Is it in the airplane bathroom? What's the
mood you want? Which is like, oh, I want certain lighting,
(43:06):
or want a playlist, or I want it in the
daytime a nighttime. And then the accoutrements like what are
the props that you need? So like I want a
dildo or I want a butt plug or loop loop
you know. But just like being able to and I
say to people, if you don't know what turns you on,
just start with that little category. As you discover things,
(43:27):
add it to your list so that when somebody asks
you what turns you on, you go, oh, I would
love a Victorian money playlist, or I love when you
sniff my my armpits.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
But like just start like sex is expanded.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yeah, so you can't be expected to do everything. So
I think we're collecting different tools. And also as you
get older, as your body changes, your turn ons are
going to change. They might expand, they might shrink, and
so like being able to like check in with yourself
periodically of like oh I was into that ten years ago,
but I'm into it now. Or I wasn't into that
but now totally into it.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
And that's why, again, we have to normalize these conversations
because they're not a one time thing.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Not a one time thing, they change. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Yes, I had that conversation with a partner who is like, oh,
you should just know and I was like.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
No, we've been to that for a while. And like
I would assume that you're growing and evolving, so what
you liked when we first got together may be different
yeah now, And so like it's important for us to
keep talking so we can update our our blueprints.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Bema Bema Yes, so cool, Bema bm A.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
It's a it actually means a platform to talk. Okay,
So that's why I like it because you got to
talk about your your things seema. Yes, okay, shall we
do our one last mess.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Okay. So it's a speed round of questions.
Speaker 3 (44:42):
Okay, I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
A round of questions that you can answer in one
word or one sentence.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
So first one is what celebrity or fictional character could
ruin your life and you'd say thank you?
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
We kind of talked about this, but I.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
Know I'm not going to say like this.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
It could be a celebrity or a fictional character that
can ruin your life and you would say thank you.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Okay, I really like the guy from Fourth Wing, but
I don't know. It's a book. It's a book, okay, fantasy.
It's a little bit smutty, but it's like with dragons.
Oh yeah, yeah, I'll take the Shadow Wielder okay, lovely,
I forget his name.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Minus Jason Momoa. What's your most controversial food opinion?
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Oh, that it should be eaten on the way home
from the grocery store. So I live a three minute
walk from the grocery store and I and there's a
bridge I crossed from the croy store home and I've
never yet in Amsterdam, and I've never not snacked on
the way home.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
I love that I love to get a chocolate pikie
for the road from Sprouts too, chocolate pikie and get
one for the road.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
I've loved that. Or some grapes.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Yeah, yeah, sure it was just like a little like you.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Have to get some of the grocery store to like
in the way.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Yes, but no, it doesn't even need to be like
a nauseable thing. I'll like break open.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Like, okay, I love I love that. What's your most
irrational ick?
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Oh? My most irrational ick. I met this guy once
who had kind of small feet, and he told me
about it, and then we went rock climb bouldering, and
then I just could only ever see him as like
he was really tall. I was like off balanced. He
was like always in my mind like a bit clumsy
and stuff. And I kept thinking of the small feet.
They weren't even like that small, but because he told me,
(46:32):
it really icked me. That was it?
Speaker 1 (46:36):
So people telling you their footside, is it stresses you
out a little bit?
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Or wasall?
Speaker 4 (46:41):
Well, it was just like I think he I don't know,
it was just a weird.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
I was like I could only see him like popping
around all of a sudden, I'm like, he doesn't seem
stable because he told me, he told you, which is
sad because it was a vulnerability maybe.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
And then I'm like, sture sometimes sometimes vulnerabilities, you know,
but it's an you know, it just can happen.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
It can happen.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
I didn't like him enough, you know, otherwise otherwise fair?
Speaker 1 (47:11):
What is a show you'll defend to the grave even
if it doesn't need defending?
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Hacks? I love hat amazing, what a great show.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
Yeah, well, I'm just I mean, there's other shows I
will defend to the grave, but Hacks just came to mind.
Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Also like, yeah, yeah, I like.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
How the ax is great.
Speaker 1 (47:28):
I defend Scandal it doesn't need defending, but I look
to the grave. I'll love me some Scandal. I'm watching
it again.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
And also like Vampire Dies. Okay if if, if I
defend to the grave.
Speaker 4 (47:39):
Now I'm thinking, like, what is it what you brought
up Scandal?
Speaker 3 (47:41):
Like it's made me open up to Vampire Diary.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah, okay, work, I love it. You love a fantasy.
Speaker 4 (47:47):
I know we haven't been like Disney and.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yes, okay, I live.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
What's the first song you'd play if you hijack the
ox chord?
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Right now?
Speaker 3 (47:57):
Chapel roone.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Oh yeah, I'm go.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
I just feel like that's so like unoriginal Pink Pony Club.
You know, the first time I heard that song was
a messy story too.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
I was at a Milkshake which is this amazing queer
festival in Amstredam. I was high off of my ass
and I was listening to Pink Pony Club at the
peak of my high at the stable that they had
with hobby horses, and it's a horsehead on a stick
(48:32):
and there were little jumps that you could do.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
And there's a video of.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
The first time I ever heard Pink Pony Club of
me galloping jumping over the thing and then being taken
off with security, like not security, but like with the
medics for my ankle. They thought I broke it, but
it was just a frame. That's my Pink Pony Club,
(48:57):
like our meet cute I love.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Yeah, Okay, if you could whisper one messy piece of
advice into the world's ear, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (49:05):
And doesn't have to be deep. It could be deep, it.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
Could oh, life short it desert first.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Love it t have those cookies. First last question, what
do you love most about yourself.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
Oh. I love that I am super passionate about what
I do and that I if I don't see something
in the world, I make it into reality.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
T Yeah, jess thank you so much for being in
our room. We'll see you next time. Great thy.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Well, you know we are hosts here, but hose with
hearts of Before you part ways, let me speak to yours.
I just loved this conversation with Jessica. I love talking
to somebody else who is incredibly sex positive and also
works in the sex space around sex education. It just
is always I get to learn so much. So, speaking
of which, here are some of my takeaways from the conversation.
(50:10):
One from her messy story, trust your instincts that they're
an asshole, okay, and you don't have to wait. You know, sometimes,
especially again for women, fems, queers, we really try to
be or we're rared to be amiable and to not
cause a fuss and to see things through rose colored glasses.
But you know in your body, You know in your
(50:31):
body when something feels off or when the energy isn't
quite right. And so I always say you can ask,
right because we never know, like people have their own stuff,
so you can always ask, hey, are you okay?
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Am I off? Or am I sensing something is off?
Speaker 1 (50:43):
And then see what they say, and based on what
they say, like this man who said he was thinking
about another girl, you gotta go.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
You gotta go. You don't have to wait, get out
of there.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
And I also love when she said it's that feeling
of wanting your mom to pick you up from your sleepover,
and you don't have to wait for that, like you
can pick yourself up. We have autonomy and we get
to be in charge about where we are. I love
that thing from the Tantra Temple party. Are you still
where you want to be? Such a beautiful question I
think to ask in any part of our life, like
(51:15):
as we're moving, as we're doing things, whether it's in
a relationship, whether it's at work, whether it's at a dinner,
you know, are you where you want to be? And
if the answer is no, what choices can you make
to shift that?
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Now?
Speaker 1 (51:28):
In certain circumstances, you may not be able to make
the change right away, but at least you're aware of it.
At least you're aware of it, and then you can
take charge as opposed to either numbing yourself or just
kind of being in a perpetual state of unrest without
any kind of language for why that unrest exists. You know,
(51:49):
I always say this, you know, whether it's I don't
know or or you do have an answer, whatever, those
answers are beautiful. Curiosity is beautiful. Answers allow us or
curiosity allows us to to live the life that we're
meant to live, as opposed to living based off of
(52:11):
a model that's been handed to us. So even if
we don't have the perfect answers for how we feel
or how to move differently, at least we're in motion.
At least we're in pursuit. And as you know, I
think I've said on this show many times, the journey
is the goal, progress, process. Those things are just as
(52:31):
valuable as the resolution or the answer itself. And finally,
I love I love this communication model. Obviously you know Beama.
If you've been listening to the show for a while,
you know my Beama model, body, environment, moods. But I
love this communication rbds M that Jessica offered. When you
(52:53):
are talking to a partner, you know, what are the relationships?
Are you in any of the relationships? What are you know?
Is this the only relationship. A look of a relationship boundaries, desires,
safe sex and meaning, and listen, you may not go
through you know, like I'm not telling you to. You know,
(53:13):
every partner you have give them a survey. But especially
when you're like vibing with somebody or you know, this
might seems like it might be more than just a
one off. You know, it's always good to have a
little model of communication in your back pocket so that
you make sure that you're aligned. Sometimes we like to
ignore things and then we fall deeper and deeper for
(53:37):
a person, and then eventually, listen, we don't have to
pay that bill at some point, So I always would
rather pay the bill at the top, rather ask the
questions early on so I can make an informed decision
about whether or not this is the right partnership or
the right alignment. Then ignore it and get deeper in,
and now everything is all tangled up, and I'm like, oh,
(53:57):
but I don't desire that, or that actually does cross
my boundary, or I want it to mean something different
than you wanted to mean. So RBDSM relationships, boundaries, desires,
safe sex and meaning.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
What did you learn? What are your.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
Takeaways of course, you can email me at tell Me
Something Messy at gmail dot com, and if you ever
want to submit a messy story or a question anonymously,
you can go to something messy dot com. I love
you so much, Thank you so much for listening to
Tell Me Something Messy. If you all enjoyed the show,
send me episode to someone else you might like it.
(54:34):
Tell Me Something Messy was executive produced by Ali Perry,
Gabrielle Collins and Yours Truly. Our producer and editor is
Vince de Johnny. The video of tell Me Something Messy
is produced by Des Lombardo and a special thank you
to Natalie Brandam who helps me organize and come up
with some of this mess tell Me Something Messy is
a production of iHeart Podcasts on the Outspoken Network. For
(54:55):
more podcasts, listen on the free iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you you get your podcasts.
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