Reconfiguring What Happiness Looks Like w/ Trace Lysette

Actress and producer, Trace Lysette, joins to play our second-ever game of Real or Faking. Then, she and Brandon dive into having sex outdoors, channeling your sexy avatar, and what it means to redefine how your life plan looks. 

Follow Brandon on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brandonkylegoodman Join the C'Heauxmunity at https://brandonkylegoodman.substack.com/ Submit your own messy story or question at [e-mail] or call ‪[phone]

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I recently had an amazing hookup with someone from field.
I also matched with their partner. The partner is stupid hot,
and I would like to bone both of them. Do
I do that? Do I mention it to either of them?
Is there any obvious answer? And I'm brain dead, horny
and can't think? Please help?

Speaker 2 (00:18):
What do you think I would say? Yeah, I want
to bone your partner and you at the same time.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yeah, if you want to bone both of them, just say.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Send them a train emoji. Don't know what?

Speaker 1 (00:36):
You know what? This is a safe space to talk
about relationships, love and sex. Now let me tell you
something messy. Hello, Okay, so today I'm actually you know,
there's not a mess where it's the show, so there's
gonna be plenty of mess. But I want to actually
talk to you about something that I've been trying to
craft a little bit, you know, between Messy Monday's on Instagram,

(01:00):
the sub stack, doing this podcast, you know, musings on
a second book that I'm trying to propose and work
on or working on my proposal for it. I've been like,
what is the thread of all of this? And you know,
it's not just sex. We talk about sex, but As
you know, we've expanded the intro to talk about relationships,
love and sex. It's not just being queer, it's not

(01:22):
just any of those things. It's not even just being messy.
The thread for me, I realize, has been curiosity. The
thing that I am so passionate about and I think
touches any kind of work that I do has been
about curiosity. But I've been saying that it's not any
kind of curiosity. It is disruptive curiosity, if you'll allow

(01:45):
me to use the term right. Curiosity is the desire
and the wanting to learn something new. I think disruptive curiosity,
which you know, in kind of art or science or business,
is described as you know, the question that kind of
shifts the status quo. But when it comes to us
as humans and what we've been doing on this show,

(02:08):
you know, I consider it intentionally asking questions to interrupt
the personal habits, generational cycles, and internal narratives that prevent
us from living liberated lives. Yeah, honey, you know, I
love a definition.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
You know.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
We talk about butt plugs, we talk about anal bow tigs,
we talk about eat and policy, we talk about all
those things, but really, at the heart of any of
those conversations that we're having, whether it's you know something
about sex, or about family and estrangement and dating and
marriage and non monogamy, it's about disruptive curiosity. I really
think that that is the key to living a liberated life.

(02:49):
We talk about radical honesty and the power vulnerability, and
those things are important and beautiful. But you do not
have the opportunity to exemplify by or experience radical honesty,
or experience vulnerability if you're not first curious, if you're
not first willing to ask really hard questions and questions

(03:11):
that allow you to say the quiet things out loud.
I really believe that a lot of us are in
our own little corners thinking that we're the only ones
experiencing certain things in this human life. But one of
my favorite quotes that I learned from my Angelou, it's
by the philosopher Terrence, and I'm sure you've heard me
say it here or in my book. But I am
a human being. Thus nothing human can be alien to me.

(03:34):
We are all capable of understanding each other's experiences because
we all want the same thing, to love, to be loved,
to be seen, to be wanted, to be validated, to
be accepted, to belong. All of us want that, no
matter what we are pursuing, what traumas we've experienced, what
trials and tribulations we've been up against. And I think

(03:57):
that we are able to get to that with just
sruptive curiosity, because you know, one are the things that
you thought that you were supposed to do because of
your gender, or because of your race, or because of
your sexual orientation. You know, girls wear pink, boys shouldn't
do ballet, A real man ver this a real woman,
you know, like all this shit. I was like, I

(04:19):
think that we've adopted blueprints that don't belong to us.
And I know you've heard me say that, And I
think the way to interrupt those blueprints and to start
building your own blueprint, one that's actually tailored to your
life is disruptive curiosity. As kids, we are allowed to
ask questions and it's understood. But once you hit teenager like,

(04:43):
asking questions isn't cool anymore, and sometimes low key it's inappropriate. Right.
Our worth is tied to being right. Our power comes
from being right, and we covet that power, even if
it's a false power, and we want to be write
about things. We want to know everything right. It's all
about being all knowing, And I think there is such

(05:05):
a power in not knowing. There's such a power in
not having answers, in asking those questions and being like,
I actually don't know and I need time to process.
I think that curiosity isn't or disruptive. Curiosity isn't about,
you know, perfect answers and perfect solutions. It's about radical processing,

(05:26):
and it's about giving yourself the permission and the safety
to radically process and discover new answers and for those
answers to evolve. So that's what we do on this show,
and that's what I'm doing in my life. That's what
I'm committed to, and I hope that you get to
experience here and hopefully you know, commit to in your
own life. Which is disruptive curiosity, intentionally asking questions that

(05:52):
interrupt the habits, the cycles, and the narratives preventing us
from living liberated lives. You deserve to live a liberated life.
Do you want to hear something nasty? Now? Now that
I've given you, you know, the the beautiful super Soul

(06:12):
Sunday version of this opening, I'll give you a messy story,
like a messy situation, which is I was at the gym.
A lot of my messy story, the thinker just happened
at the gym, but I was there and I walked
into the steam room and there was only one other
guy there and he was laying down on a towel,
you know, dick fully out, and I was like, wow, beautiful,

(06:35):
that's all. And I sat down. I sat down, you know,
across not not you know, curious about anything. And he
sits up, and you know, you know now that I'm
in the in the steam room with him. He sits
up and he puts a towel across his lap, but
his dick is still hanging out. And I'm doing my stretches,
you know, I like to stretch in the steam room,
you know, open these hips up, and the dick is

(06:57):
beautiful and it's hanging out, and like again, I I
don't need I don't need to play with anyone in
this dum I'm happy being aware. So I was like, oh, look,
you know, you covered yourself, but you didn't really cover yourself,
so obviously you want that dick to be seen. And
I see it and it's beautiful love. I was like,
oh he's sexy. Let me tell you how quickly I
got the ick that itck happens fast and maybe I'm crazy.

(07:20):
You tell me if I'm a monster for this. But
all of a sudden, homeboy starts singing. He just starts
like me and him, I just start singing. I don't
know what the fuck he was singing. But you might
not know this about me. But like I, if you
can't sing, well, oh lord, my body breaks out into hives.

(07:40):
It's like talent shows, like I love drag Race, but
whenever I watch like the talent show portion my husbands
telling you this, I will have to leave the room
sometimes because if it's not good, I get I get embarrassed. Listen.
I don't know what it is, but like I feel
my body like oh no, no, no, oh no, that
joke wasn't funny. Oh no, that that they can't sing
like and so like I bring out the high. So

(08:02):
this this was happening. I was like stretching and he
was like singing. I was like, oh my god. And
then more people started coming to the steam room and
he that didn't deter him from singing his song. And
then he started asking if anyone in the in the
room spoke Spanish, and somebody was like it was responding,
but I think they responded to his friend, he was like, oh, okay,

(08:22):
because I'm gonna sing, and I want to know tell
me what word I'm not he' said pronunciating, which I
don't think that's a word. I think he's enunciating. I'm
pronouncing which anyways, and the guy was like, oh, no,
I don't speak Spanish. He's like, oh, I thought you
said you did. So he was about to just sing
and then the final so he so the singing the

(08:45):
uh wanting to to sing in Spanish and have other
people in the steam room tell him what word he
is not pronunciating, and then he got up and started
coughing freely. He just started baby, I didn't care what
that dick looked like no more. I was so turned

(09:08):
off and I found myself in the ick and that
that that's that's really. There's not much more to this
story other than can y'all do me a favor when
you're in the steam room, just shut the fuck up, sorry, respectfully,
Just be in the same room and stretch if you

(09:30):
want to, you know, toil your dick a little bit
happily do that, you know, as long as everyone's cool
with that toy your dick around. I I't give a
fuck about that, you know. But but don't talk, don't
have full conversations, and certainly don't sing. And certainly if
you can't sing, because I understand you're like, I want
to work my vote, my voice and and the throat
and and and you know, the steam is good for

(09:50):
the throat. But if you can't sing, I don't even
want to hear you. If you can sing. One of
our best friends, we've been streaming together. One of best
friends is a singer. That's what she does. Uh And
but she, I mean they that's what they do. She's
she's she's like me, we're both she's anyways, they sing
and so like. But if I'm telling you right now,

(10:11):
if she starts singing the steam room, I would slaper.
I would say, girl, shut the fuck up, what are
you doing? You know what I'm saying. We're in the
steam room. The only thing I want to hear is
the steam. So don't sing in the steam room. Don't
sing in a language that you don't speak in the
steam room, and please don't cough in the steam room.

(10:32):
So you know what I've discovered. Now, this may be messy.
I farted in the steamer room and it was perfect
because the scheme was so loud you couldn't hear it.
And because it's steamy. It's like, you know, like when
when something smells you like the match you throw in

(10:53):
the toilet bowl. Because it's so steamy, you can't smelling either,
So I don't even know if it's smelled. It was
just and then like you couldn't hear it because there
was steam, and it didn't smell because of the steam.
So you can fight in the steam room if you want.
But see, that's why y'all gotta wear flip flops because
people are fighting in the steamer room. People let me me,

(11:14):
so wear your flip flops. Not that it's it's not
a wet fart. It's not like there's you know, like
a ship coming out of the far. I wouldn't. That's
not a fart, that's a shot. That's a shark, as
we understand that. But I would just you know, to
those of y'all who raw dog the steam room and
the locker room floors, God bless you. You were really
living on the edge. You're showing your privilege and now

(11:36):
you don't have a lot of trauma. I see, I see,
get your flip flops on love and that's all. And
that's what I'll say on that. Okay, shall we start
the show. I'm so sorry. By the way, welcome to
the show. This is telling me something messy. I'm your host,
Brandon Kyle good Man. Most people call me messy mother,
but you could call me madre disort or not. Did

(11:57):
I say it right to my people who speak Spanish,
my messy patrons, my espaniol messi patrons, that I say
it right, Madre de surdi nada. Okay, let's get the
show started. Baby. You know what that means. It's time
for a guest. Now, while they get situated, we'll get
our messy key key started with a Hoe manifest sto
repeat after me aloud or in your head. Grant me

(12:19):
the serenity to unpack my shame, the courage to heal,
the wisdom to know that sex is not about penetration,
the audacity to advocate for my pleasure and boundaries, the
strength to not call my ex that fuck boy, fuck
girl or fuck they for it is better to masturbabe
by myself in peace than to let someone play in
my motherfucking face. Let the hommunity say ho heluja. I

(12:45):
am so excited to have Trace Lissett on the show.
Trace is an actress and producer known for her work
in TV and film, most notably the Golden Globe winning
series Transparent, which earned her an Ensemble Sagaward nomination, the
feature film Hustlers, Venus as a Boy, and the critically
acclaimed Monica Which Was So Fucking Good, which premiered at

(13:08):
Venice Film Festival to an eleven minute Standing ovation and
earned her an Independent Spirit Award nomination and a glad
Media Award for Best Film. Y'all if you haven't seen Monica,
please yourself a favorite. It's so good. Her TV credits
include Law and Order, SVU PO'SE, Drunk History, Midnight Texas,
David makes Man, Quantum Leap, and Blunt Talk. She recently

(13:30):
received honors from HRC and Outfest a Dorian Award nomination.
Has appeared in music videos from Maroon five, Share Tiana Taylor,
and hosted the number one chart topping scripted podcast Harsh Reality.
Y'all Please Help me. Welcome, Trace last, Welcome to the show. Hi, Trace, Hi,
how are you? How are you get that we did?

(13:57):
Not a little off camera royalty or off my realty. Anyways,
before we get into this this messy, messy key key,
let me give you our messy mandates, which are things
get to be unprocessed. Any thoughts or opinion shared, have
the right to evolve, shift or change tomorrow or sorry
today tomorrow or ten years from now. And if during
the kiki something feels too personal or unintentionally offends, we

(14:18):
use the safe word foosball, which gives us a chance
to pause and address accordingly. Sound good, sounds good, be beautiful.
Shall we start with a lube breaker, A.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
Loub break down.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Okay, a lube breaker, Yes, I have to. I have
to hit the B because people think I say lude breaker,
but I'm saying lube because we need our lube hunting.
All right. This is a game of real or faking.
So I'm gonna tell you something, and you're going to
tell me if you think it's real or if it's fake.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Sound good? Okay?

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Okay, this one says real or faking. You can't get
pregnant if you have sex at night because the sperm
are sleeping.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
Oh god, that's not real.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, that's not really, that's completely faking. But that was
something that I saw people believed that they couldn't get pregnant.
All right, real or faking sex increases your immunity to pain.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Well, sometimes sex is painful, So I'd have to say
that's true.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
That's true. That's a really, that's a logical Yeah, it's real. Technically, yeah,
it's real. Aside from the obvious physical pleasure, sex can
actually be an aid in pain relief during states of
arousal and orgasm. The oh lord, this were hypotholamists in
the brain. Not a science show, but here we are

(15:39):
releases the feel good hormone oxytocin. Researchers at Rutgers University
in New Jersey found this surge of oxytocin can reduce
pain felt in women, especially during menstruation. A further study
published in the Bulletin of Experimental Biology and Medicine found
that oxytocin in men can cut the perception of pain
in half. So that is really all right, work. I

(16:02):
wonder like if you're if you are feeling pain, like
if you just got back from a little something something
and you feel pain from the little doctor. If you will,
if you touch yourself a little bit, if that is
better than advil. I don't know. I don't really want
to try, but somebody tell us.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
I've tried masturbating when I have a migraine.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Does it help?

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Sometimes it'll take my mind off of it, Like it'll just.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
You know, but it'll distract a little bit.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, but if the migrant's too bad, I have to.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
It won't cure it, That's what I'm saying. I feel
like I'd be too distracted by the pain to even
attempt to do something exactly.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Ever masturbated when you have like the flu or something.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Wow. I love this question, and I want to think
about it. I love that question. Sometimes I really think
about it.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Sex Like I'll have fantasies when I'm sick in bed
and it takes my mind off of the pain of
the sickness.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Wait, I love that. I guess I feel so snotty
and nasty that I like, don't think about it.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Oh, I'm like, I close my eyes and just like.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, you close your eyes and you're in your fantasy.
You're in a divine fantasy. Yes, I might try that. No,
I haven't. When I've had the flu, I have not masturbated,
But next time I will. Okay, I'm a report back.
I'm a report bad. You know you can get an update.
We'll follow up. Uh. This one says vibrators were first

(17:30):
developed as a medical device. Real or faking.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
That might be real. I think that's real.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Trace you are getting it, mama. It is real. It
is real. The vibrator was invented in eighteen sixty nine
as a treatment for huhsteria quote unquote or mysterious Yeah,
the hornyl Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
They didn't know. They didn't want us to be horny.
They didn't want they didn't want women to be horny.
That's so crazy.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
They did it, and so they said, let's fix it,
and they fixed it by giving y'all something that would
bring pleasure. So work anyways, when a woman so sorry.
It was invented in eighteen sixty nine as a treatment
for hysteria or mysterious quote unquote female disorders. Whenever a
woman reported being mentally or emotionally upset, it was considered
an illness, and the cure was using a large steam

(18:21):
powered massage O Jesus to massage the genitals with the
goal of inducing quote unquote historical paroxism, which is the
Victorian term for orgasm.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Not the steam, not the steam.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
The steam.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Steam powered massage. I don't even know that looks or
mean like an.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Iron steam rod. That sounds painful.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
That sounds painful. Yeah, that's not cute. But but I
guess that was the first vibrater, and I guess we
learned that vibrators were actually quite useful for the orgasm,
but not a steam. I wouldn't look have to look
up a steam powered massage. I wonder. I'm assuming that
means that there's a steam coming to you right like that,
it's perhaps a massage, or in my mind, it's like a.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Maybe for the lubrication or something.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, the head vava lubrication, Yes, a little lubrication, little
mist perhaps, I just like good old faithful, good old
faithful fingers. Yeah, yeah, I'm the same way. I don't.
It goes with you wherever you wherever you go. You

(19:36):
can always have that vibe in your pocket them fingers.
Oh wait, Vincent just sent me a photo of the steamer.
It does not look sexy at all. I don't know
if you can see this trace.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Oh, it looks like a mouse trap.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Can you see that it does?

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, it looks like Yeah, it looks like a mouse
trap with like a kettle. Oh, like I feel like
that is that the steam like it's like at on
top of a mouse trap with Uh that looks like
a little dick.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
No, it looks dangerous.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Not, it does look dangerous, But I do think that
there's no steam coming onto the body. I think it's
just maybe motorizing like a fuck machine. Oh, I wonder
if this this is like an old school fuck machine.
Oh wow, okay, perfect, So it is. It's a it's
like a it's a steam powered fuck machine, all right.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Like one of those dildos that go like that.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, they just keep going that move. You turn it
on and you can just like let the fuck you
like that.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
You've never done one of those?

Speaker 1 (20:33):
Ye, I've never done, but I do desire one. I
just here's the I would love to buy a fuck machine.
Every time I see a porn with it, I'm like,
that looks fabulous. I just don't know where I would
put it. I feel like I would need to have
a sex room because those things take up space and
I'm I'm a very Marie Condo kind of doll. I like,
I like things to have their place, and I don't
have a place quite yet for a fuck machine to

(20:56):
just chill me neither, you know, like I can't mass
tuit cases in the bathroom. It's like I don't have
a spot.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
You know, you have made it and you don't have
a machine room.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
That is. Listen when I come to Tracey's house and
I find a funk machine, like, she's made it.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
We've made it, We've got something to strive for.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Oh she made it. Yeah. This says people who have
less sex overcompensate in their in their jobs.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah. I think they. I think they do, because there
are those really anal ones that you're like, oh my gosh,
she used to get laid, Like who can throw a
valume in her mouth?

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Like yeah, yeah, chill out. Yes, yes, yes, that is
very true. The people who have less sex do overcompensate
in their jobs, and I am probably one of those people. Ironically,
researchers found that people within an active sex life tend
to do more work to comp but say for their
lack of quote unquote fulfillment. The study asked thirty two

(22:03):
thousand people to open up about their sex life and
work habits. The result found that thirty six percent of
men and thirty five percent of women who only had
sex once a week would also work excessive hours at
their jobs. The more work you have, the more stress
you have, and the more stress you have, the less
sex you have. First of all, if you're having sex
once a week, I actually think you're doing great. I

(22:24):
don't know.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
I mean, is that crazy going on? I don't want
to say that's drought? Baby, It sounds I haven't.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
That sounds like are we fucked up?

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Because I can do what I need to do and
I know I'm going to get one off at least
once a week.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, I feel like once a week is plenty. Is that? Am? I?
Are we bugging? Are we just workaholics?

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Release on? Yeah, a nice Sunday release and then you're
good for the week.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
That's what I think. Like I always wait for the weekends,
like I am. I'm actually not a weekday sex person.
I don't like day I don't either.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
I don't either.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
I just unless it's like a weekend day or a vacation.
But I don't like daytime sex just to do I
have things to do.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
I can't.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
I have things to do.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
And I can't wind down and really no, I can't
got calk three thousand When I'm thinking about the to
do list.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Cat cok three like I have to do, I have
something to do. Yes, I'm with you. If I have things,
if there are things on my to do list, I'm
not doing you. You know what I'm saying. I'm not
trying to get done yet. I need I need it
to be well.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
The worst is when like somebody hits you up on
a whim and it'll be like, hey, hey, maybe it's
just straight guys to do this. I don't know, but
it's like, hey, I just left the gym. It'll be
like eleven or ten thirty in the morning. They're like,
what are you doing? Can I come by? Like what?
Like I haven't even had my oat meal? Go away,

(23:58):
you're not boyfriend.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
You are not boyfriend.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
You don't get boyfriends sexy time if you're not going No.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
That is correct. Daytime sex is for the boyfriends, for
the boyfriends, for the day friends. It is not for
the random.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Like oh, I was running an err and I'm in
your hood, Like get out because.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
You know because I know that you're not gonna fuck
me good. I just know you're here to it's gonna
be way you want to blow a load, and I'm.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Not prepped in the way I want to be prepped
like I do.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Absolutely, I need my weekend time for that, That's what
I'm saying. So I need my Friday and my Saturday,
even Sunday you can hit it, But Monday to Friday
five pm, you're not hitting this. That's just and that's
just me. I know other people are different, but that's me.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
Monday day. Get out of here. Like that is not said.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
That's not sexy unless again, we're on vacation, then it's
very sexy to be.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
If we're on a vacation, we're in and Caicos, maybe come.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Boy, Yes, we can do whatever you want. We're in Cacos,
especially if you love we can do whatever you want. Okay, this,
where the where are they?

Speaker 2 (25:06):
You don't even know? It's really dark.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Tracy won the game? Ok yeah, perfectly, Yes, you really listen,
you were actually you take it all of them correct.
That's like that doesn't always happen here, but that works.
That doesn't happen off to but you work, you win
my unconditional love, which is very valuable, very valuable. You've
already had it.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
But listen season not like not like that, but like
you know, not like that.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah, yeah, like that. You know, we know some things.
We know some things. Patrons, if you have prompts, you
can email me tell me something messy at gmail dot com.
Speaking of which, trace, can you tell me something messy?

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Messy? Okay, Well, I was thinking about, you know, sex
and nature. I was also thinking about movies that we
were talking about movies and stuff that inspired us. And
I think it was Jason's lyric when Jada and that man,
that finance man roll around in the flowers. Do you

(26:10):
remember that?

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yes, and they like and there's like that all those
nice booty shots they both yes, yes, yes, their booties
are out and stuff, and I'm like, ooh, I would
love to do that in real life and a movie.
And then I was thinking about my escapades in nature
had a couple and it's really there's this euphoric feeling.

(26:34):
It's like tribal in a way m hm, because I think, well,
obviously we're all connected to the earth and we used
to live in smaller groups and when we were a
hunter gatherers whatever, and would have sex out of nature
all the time. And so I gave this dude head
on the side of a mountain one time on the

(26:55):
Wisdom Tree hike and it was like right by the
American flag and there was like the Wisdom Tree. I
don't know if anyone saw us. There was condos and
ship like off in the distance. But it was really
it was really hot but also beautiful. Yeah, you know,
like you could die fall off the mountain.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
Trait there was like it was really beautiful. You could die.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Amount of risk, the perfect amount of risk. Someone could
walk up and see going to town. Yeah, and like
literally someone walked up. I kid you not thirty seconds
after he popped and I was like, ooh a good thing.
I go to work talk got it done in time.
But yeah, but that was pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
How do we can I do? How does that happen?

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Like?

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Is it somebody that it's not? Let me ask, speaking
of my journalism on do you did? Was the guy
that you saw on the trail?

Speaker 2 (27:54):
You were like, oh or no, no, no, no, you
were dating? No we were dating? Oh okay, we were
dating and like you know, you want adventure and you
want a spicy.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, then yeah, did y'all pre plan it? I always
wonder about that, like do y'all go, oh, we're gonna
go this hike?

Speaker 2 (28:09):
That kind of It was just.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
A moment, so it's real romantic.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah. Oh. I was like, well, you know, I'm kind
of ornery like that. So I just asked the question.
I said, Oh, wow, I wonder how many people mess
around up here? Because we made it to the top
of the hike where there's the one, yeah, the one
wisdom tree, and then there's the flag that like hangs
off the side of the mountain and there's like these
big rocks and yeah, it's you can see forever. Yeah.

(28:38):
I just like ask the question, like, I wonder if
people mess around? To me, I wonder how many people
have messed around here? It's like probably a lot. Why
do you want to? And I was like I could
be down. I just kind of.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Dropped lovely, Yes, I love that.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Knew what to do.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Period, he understood. He understood, Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Have you ever done anything in nature?

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Is an alleyway?

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Nature that's a city escape? I don't know, you've never
been bent over a log? Or anything.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
This is my favorite conversation. Have I ever been bent
over a log?

Speaker 2 (29:24):
No? But I mean I really I think people should
be having sex in nature more often. There's nothing like
staring at a river when you're bent over a log,
having your pussy eaten from the back. It's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
I need that on a shirt, on a shirt. It
sounds the way you're saying. It sounds beautiful. And so
I will make I will make Wow. Am I gonna
do this? I will. I will make a statement right
here on this podcast so you can hold me accountable
and everyone listening. This summer, I will get bent over
a log in nature, in front of a stream and

(29:58):
have my pussy ate out from the bed.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Yes, watching a stream.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Watching a stream, a deer might frolic by, how sweet,
how beautiful?

Speaker 2 (30:07):
It's Yes, it's a sensory thing.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
It's really there's a lot going on, there's not happening.
It feels like getting coming back to yourself, if you will.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
We're getting in touch with our tribal selves.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Who we really are. Yes, and then you get to
come along with it. This sounds great. So I'm going
to I'm going to because don't knock it till you
try it. And so an older version of me has
famously not fucked in a tent, and I'm still going
to keep that version of me in today. But I
will find me a log to be bent over in
front of a river, and I will report back, Yes, Yes,

(30:44):
find me a log to be bent over while I
take that log. Amen, somebody, Ah, shall we do some
messy mail?

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Let's do the mess mail?

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Okay? This one says is it wrong to ask your
partner if they are okay if you see other people,
if you're not comfortable with the idea of them seeing others?
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Oh? I don't think it's wrong. I think it would
be wrong to Uh, there's no right answer, because every
couple's different. But sure, I think it's wrong to expect
that they wouldn't also want to. Yes, people, you can ask.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
I mean you can ask, but yeah, I think it
would be wrong if you then were like no, no,
this is a one way street.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
I agree, Like, I don't think it's wrong to have
the desire to see others but maybe not be comfortable.
I think you have to interrogate it and be like, well,
why am I not comfortable with my partner also seeing
others if I want to see others and kind of
get to the root of what that is.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, I've thought about that as well, because I don't
really like the idea of my partner seeing another woman.
But like if I dating like a bye guy, I
don't know where the bye guys are, but if you're
if you're out.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
There out here, they are here, hello, Hello.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
I thought, maybe it wouldn't bother me if another if
he saw another guy, or if or if we incorporated
another dude like into the fold, but like something about
another woman, I would start comparing myself. I think, sure,
I think I would get insecure. Yeah, you know what

(32:30):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
So that's fair, that's fair, And that's also such a
fair thing to know, Like if you were to come
up in this conversation, it's like, oh, there's nuance here
that maybe I would be comfortable with you seeing somebody else,
but not if it's somebody that I feel like I
might be in competition with.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, And typically the guys I date are just straight
as an arrow, and they you know, probably won't would
want another woman. And I just don't know if I'm
secure enough to do that.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, and that's fair, and like, you know, I feel
like the security you know, for this type of question.
You know, I think we're talking about non monogamy and
then potentially even polyamory eventually, but you know, it's like
that type of security you can only build with your partner.
And so I do think that, like for this person,
I think it's important to be transparent about like I

(33:19):
would love to make this thing happen, but I also
have reservations because I'm afraid of you seeing other people
and then be able to like figure it out together
and how you can make it so it feels secure
for both of you. And it might be that like
we just keep seeing each other and say a monogamy,
but it also might be that like we both have
a say in who the other people are or or

(33:41):
we don't need to know about it, or like you
could do that when I'm traveling. But you may be
able to find a solution that makes both of you
feel comfortable. But you have to be transparent. You have
to I think you have to say the thing like
I am interested in this, but I also have reservations
over here that I'm also working through, which is that
like I don't know if I'm comfortable with you seeing
other people. I think it gets wrong if you were

(34:02):
to impose that though based off of your feeling being
like okay, and you can't see other people, Like I
don't like that that one way street you were talking about, Like, right,
that's not that to me? Is is it loving?

Speaker 2 (34:14):
No? That just feels selfish.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, that's and controlling and controlling. Yeah yeah, yeah, Okay.
This one says, do you think looks matter more than
personality more?

Speaker 2 (34:28):
No? But you kind of need both. Yeah, yeah, because
it's like I need the primal I need the primal
thing if we're gonna do yeah, sexy time, But like otherwise,
I don't know, it just feels like a friendship.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
I think when people ask this question, they're always thinking
and maybe this person isn't true. But I feel when
this question gets asked, it's usually being viewed in what
are the external standards or the cultural standards of beauty
as like as opposed to what do I as an
individual find attractive? And so I think if we're all honest,

(35:07):
it's like, yeah, looks do matter, but you don't need
to look like Brad Pitt or whatever that conventional somebody
just said Bradpit recently, so that's why that's coming out.
But you know, like whatever is like icon of like
beauty that we are upholding in culture, I don't need
my partner to look like that. I need my partner

(35:27):
to look like what I'm attracted to. And so I
would agree looks and personality do matter because I would
like to be attracted to my partner as well.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
We need to get off of like what society deems
as attractive or acceptable, because if everybody just worried more
about what they actually like, I think we would be
better off. I think everyone would feel a lot more
desired and loved because people's palate for what they sign
sexy is so varied, but you wouldn't know it by

(35:58):
pop culture or by yeah, what they force feed you know,
down our throats every day on Instagram or wherever.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
I agree with that, and I it becomes like a
question about preferences, which is something that I started interrogating
maybe like tenish years ago, just like where my preferences
were coming from and what they were about, and really
learning that a lot of my quote unquote preferences were
adopted that I adopted them based off of social pressure

(36:27):
and social cues, but weren't necessarily what I found attractive.
And when I started to pull at the string, I
realized that I found a whole smorgas board of things attractive,
and I was attracted to so much more than I
was allowing myself to be attracted to. And so I
don't think there's anything wrong with looks mattering, but I

(36:49):
think that maybe the question is, are you limiting what
your idea of beauty is when you're thinking about looks
versus personality?

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah, and what you're in what your body responds to?

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Uh huh. Yes.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
A lot of people deny what their body responds to.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
One thousand percent one thousand percent as like you know,
I'm not supposed to or I can't. I talked about this,
I wrote a piece about this about when I wear
a sports bra, how I kind of have three reactions
for men. One is like, uh, you know, go off,
sys you look great. One is like extreme masculinity and rudeness,
and the other is the short circuiting, which is what

(37:28):
we're talking about, where people don't know that they're allowed
to be attracted to it or what they're being attracted to.
It's like yeah, you got to explore, like there's some
things that you got told that you can't find as
beautiful that you absolutely can and and what is your
body responding to?

Speaker 2 (37:44):
And that is oh my god.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, yeah, like listen to you, listen to your body.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Not to dive into the trams stuff too much. But
the short circuiting when you mentioned the short circuiting, I mean,
talk about a short circuit when these straight men find
out sometimes because you know, a lot of times they
just don't know the tea or whatever. And then and
then I can bear witness when someone fills them in

(38:10):
or maybe I fill them in or whatever. Yeah, and
the short circuit is crazy lazy. It's like what is
happening right now? Like you see it unfold and you're
just like you're okay, yes, yes, it's really going on.
Like it's so obvious that their body reacted in a

(38:34):
positive way. But then they're yes, catches everything that they
programmed to think is like it's like a time lapse.
It's like everything's catching up, and it's like and they're
just like, it's a it's a complete short circuit.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Absolutely, it's wild.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
It's really bizarre. And then sometimes you may see them
out somewhere again, and like they don't even know how
to like look at you or talk to you. And
it's like it's like, Babe, you were on my you
were on my body. You were on my like you
were you were at me, sir, don't even don't.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Don't you play? Don't you know? Yeah? And for who?
That's the thing, like who are you playing? Who are
you doing that for? Who are you setting your allegiance to.
It's like you're denying what you're attracted to for the
credibility of the people who aren't fucking you, Like, like
what do we like? You're denying yourself love or romance

(39:29):
or or sexual pleasure because you're afraid of what some
men you'll never meet think, Like.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Just yeah, I guess well they care. I think they
care more about what their bros think than what they
actually like.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yes, which in some ways, and not to go too
far into this, but I also when I hear that,
I'm like, that's a little gay to me.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
I feel Okay, Like you're so a you are.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
So trying not to be gay, and yet your entire
personality is being dictated by the acceptance of these other men.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
Right. It's like, well, that feels I don't know, it
just feels a little homolite.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
A little homolte.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
Okay, this says, This says.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
I was with the same male partner for seventeen years.
We have now been separated for a year. I would
like to explore dating women. I had the most amazing
first dates with this beautiful woman, and the vibe is
definitely there. But I am struggling with how to make
the first move. I really want to kiss her.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
I don't know if this matters, but is this a
guy or a girl?

Speaker 1 (40:50):
I oh, interesting, I'm not sure. I was with the
same male partner for seventeen years. We've now separated for
a year. I would like to explore dating women. I
have the most amazing first dates with the beautiful woman,
and the vibes is really different there. I I I
assumed that it was a woman who is separated from
her male partner and is now exploring women. But maybe
that's maybe that's not a wild assumption, but like a

(41:12):
biased assumption or a default assumption. But that was what
I was going off of. Oh, okay, they had the Yeah,
they had a date. They're starting to explore with women,
but they don't know how to make the first move,
and they really want to kiss this this woman and
they don't know how to make the first move.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
If there's an extended period of eye contact, I think
you can kind of like ask the question, or is
that is that a buzzkill? I can be sexy when
someone's like, can I kiss you? Like yeah, just like direct.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah, I find that sexy. It's not sexy in the movie.
Is just supposed to just kiss a person, but I
find somebody yeah the movie's just like yeah, But I
find it really sexy when someone says a really want
to kiss you right now.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
And you have to say it in the right tone.
You can't sure, you can't mess up the mood. You
gotta just be low volume and direct.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, yes, low volume and direct. Yeah yeah you don't.
What can I can see right now?

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Like you be a little smoky with it?

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah you got.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
You gotta think about like your favorite I think like
your your sexy avatar. Everyone needs a sexy avatar, So
like whoever that is for you. I feel like, for
the longest time, I'm terrible at this, but like llo,
cool ja, I grew up like that was my like
sexy avatar, so like I would try and emulate an
llow cool when I was trying to be sexy. I
was unsuccessful hard time. How dare you go?

Speaker 4 (42:49):
Okay, I'm not seeing it.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
It's like I'm not seeing that for you, but I
promised you, like give me, give me a little like
if I have a little a little tequila spright and
I'm on the dance floor, have a little move. I
can give you. I'm from New York, you know I can.
I can get a little thus.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
I can have it.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
I can't. I can give it.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
I can give a look from.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
Time to time, but then I then I crack into
a smile. But I will say I do agree with
the directness, the low tone, the can I kiss you?

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Yeah? Very very? What is it very, Kathleen turn the situation?

Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yes, yes, yeah. I think that also, like if you're
continuing to see a person, there is a higher percentage
that they do want that kiss, Like they're continuing to
engage with you, continuing to spend time with you, and
so you're not I think trust sometimes, I think sometimes
we forget to trust the actions of what's happening that Like, listen,

(43:54):
there are there are plenty of people who will continue
to go on dates with people that they don't want
to go on dates with for various reasons, but for
the most part, if somebody's going out with you a second,
a third time, they probably want to.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yeah, I'm surprised. Like, if the energy is there, it
usually happens on the first date. No, am I like loose?

Speaker 1 (44:21):
I don't think you're loose. No, No, of course you
have on the first day. But I think sometimes I
don't know. I'm sure can have on the first date.
But I think some people might be like a little
more we're a little more liberated, you and I. You
know what I'm saying. I think some people might be
a little more traditional, a little more rules. Like we
have to have a certain amount of time to gather
before we have a first kiss, before we have sex.

(44:43):
I like to know what kind of milk I'm getting,
so I want to know from that from the jump,
because if that limitary right now, that kiss ain't hitting
the way I need to hit, then you're not getting
a second date. So I do it right.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yeah, yeah, sweetness to it, Like you know how some
people just their body chemistry tastes a little sweet, you.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Know, Yes, of course, absolutely, I want to know if
that's what you're giving.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Your skin tastes like your scent, like you need to yes,
before I invest too much time.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Absolutely, because the first day I got all primmed up
and like, I'm cute as fuck, and I don't want
to do all that again. If you kiss, be good,
it's a lot. It's a lot. I will also suggest
keep aqua for on you. I don't literally I'm holding
an aqua for I don't like a dry kiss.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
No, I don't like a dry kiss either.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
I don't like a dry kiss. You gotta you gotta
make sure before you ask for that.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
I don't want crusty's floating off. No.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
No, you better exfoliate your lips first and foremost. You
gotta be drinking your water well.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
This and this is a p s A for a
straight man. Do your manscaping, do your big one, do
your lineup, do your exfoliations. Yes, you know you're hot, Tael,
whatever you got to do, don't come looking dusty. Don't
I even like a little you.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Know, I don't because use those fingers at some point.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
I don't exactly you know, I get.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
That rounded tip. Absolutely not. Yeah, it's it's all fun
and games until you know I got a splinter from
your cuticle up in my pussy and I don't want that. Yeah,
I'm I'm with you. I I do think p s
A to the straight man and whoever else needs it.

(46:38):
You could take care of yourselves, your skin a little
bit more. It is not gay, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
And wash because you never.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Want If you don't wash that back door before you
ask somebody to eat it, it's cray.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
I don't want to even suck your dick if I
can smell what's going on below it, period, I don't
want to.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Now it's disrespectful. Wash it, use some soap and water,
wash it all. Absolutely. I take a shower before I
go on a date, even if I took a shower
earlier in the day. If I'm going out that night,
I'm gonna take a shower, especially if I know we
might get naked together. Because I want you to get
the smooth I want you to get. I want you
to get the silky soft, smooth, clean version of me

(47:22):
at all times because I because I adore you. You
know what I'm saying, and I want to give me
pleasure and part of the pleasure. Yeah, the experience is
part of the pleasure. Whenever I feel can I tell
you trace I do this now? Which is that like
if I'm talking to a guy and I grab his hands,
and if that hand those calluses cut me up a

(47:43):
little bit, I really do have to move on. It's
just for me. I know for some people they love
a callous What if.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
It's from weightlifting though, and like the body is tea.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
I just feel like I get it. I get it,
and I weightlift too. You must use those paths.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
I gotta wear gloves.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
I guess you gotta wear those gloves or use your
pads or you know what it is. That's that's not
It's not a one to one always. But I do
get concerned when I'm like, well, your hands are scratching me.
You know if I touch your back and your back
is also scratching me, I get like, we have to exfoliate. Y'all,
get them gloves, exfolian gloves.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
Sugar scrub, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Sugar scrub, okay, And I've all I told y'all here,
you scrub like that. You put your almond oil on
with the water still there. You add your cocoa butter
or your shade butter okay, and you show up and
you show out, Okay, I love it.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
I love a man that smells good.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Oh don't you love a man who smells good? I
love to hug a man, and I'm like, oh, stay
right here. I love the man who smells good. Find
your scent, love, find your scent. Okay. This one says
I recently had an amazing hookup with someone from Field.
I also matched with their partner. The partner is stupid hot,

(48:58):
and I would like to bone both of them. Do
I do that? Do I mention it to either of them?
Is there any obvious answer? And I'm brained dead, horny
and can't think. Please help? What do you think?

Speaker 2 (49:10):
I don't have experience with Field?

Speaker 1 (49:13):
I don't either.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Isn't it that? Isn't that what it's about?

Speaker 1 (49:17):
I feel like in Field there they love the non
monogamy of it all. I feel like, yeah, yeah, you're
not wrong, that branding was on point.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Yeah yeah, I would say, yeah, I want to bone
your partner.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
And yeah, yeah, if you want to bone, don't know
what time it is? Cut to the chase to too, honey? Yeah,
I mean I I feel like I feel like It's
only complicated if you were like, oh, I we started

(50:03):
to talk to this guy and then I saw his
partner and I realized I only want to bone his partner.
That's where it would get like maybe.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Tricky, You're gonna have to take one for the team
and fuck the other person too.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, if you started talking to them
like just make it all uh, make it a vibe.
But yeah, or but you know, also I had done
this once. I like, uh, well this is slightly different.
But I hooked up with the guy, and then I
hooked up with another guy and then I found out
they were best friends. But I liked the second guy

(50:35):
better than I liked the first guy, so I kept
sucking the second guy. And I have talked to the
first guy, which the first guy was great and it
was great text, but like, I just had a better
chemistry with the second guy. I've also never spoken about
it with well, I don't really talk to the first
guy anyway, but like, I've never mentioned it. May oh

(50:55):
now wait, now I'm real time processing. Do I need
to do? I need to mention it?

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Well, they might know, now I don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
They probably already know. Yeah, I mean I guess transparency
is always the best policy. I don't think there's a
problem here. If you want to fuck them both and
they're both on field, it sounds like that's what their
vibe is. I think though, it would be tricky if
like you were in a thing with one of them
and then you wanted to start with another one and

(51:24):
didn't you know, like they didn't know that they were
both talking to you. That's when it gets complicated. And
I do want to go back to this thing with
the best friends, which is that like I didn't know
that they were best friends right at the time that
I so I found it after a while of hooking
up with.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
The second progressive but not that progressive.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not like, yeah, I'm not. I'm
not trying to fuck the friend group if you will.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
I'm not. I'm not getting rammed through by the crew.

Speaker 5 (51:54):
No, I mean yeah, Well depends on the cru Okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
This one says, how has being sexy or feeling sexy
evolved over the course of your life and where do
you see it now? I love this question.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
I was a stripper for eight years, which paid my
way through acting school, and so being sexualized and being
sexy and whatever. It just was like such a big
part of my life that now, I yeah, the mystique
of it kind of wore off. So I think then
it was about being direct and provocative, and now it's

(52:43):
kind of about being effortless, a little less effort And
so I think what people see when I'm like out
at a bar in a little Maxi dress, not you know,
a tight Maxi dress, dancing the night away, just really
enjoying them, I think that they're consuming something that I'm

(53:04):
not necessary I don't I'm not necessarily concerned with.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
Ah. Yeah, one of my partners he has he exudes
sexiness in a way that just is like he takes
a photo and you're like, that is a sexy man.
But he doesn't. He thinks about sex, but like not
in the way that I think people think he does.

(53:30):
Like he's aware of like our sex, but in general,
he's like not really bothered about like sex with uh.
I don't want to say with other people because I'm
not talking about like monogamy, but just like his day
to day isn't guided or directed by sex in the
way that I think people project onto him because of

(53:50):
how he looks, and so for me, I like have
to break down and this is processing in real time,
So I have to break down sexy because I'm like, oh,
there is this thing that is sexy, which is a
physical attraction or this energy of desire that somebody kind
of exudes. But then there's also the sexy, which I

(54:10):
think is the more important sexy, and the one that's
actually long lasting, which is just a person existing in
however they exist. That is to say that like my
partner who is a dancer model kind of gives you
traditional sexy is sexy, as well as the fucking nerd
who wants to talk about you know, sci fi and

(54:33):
you know, fucking cartoons all day and anime like that's
also sexy because they know who they are and they
stand strong in it. And I think that that has
been helpful for me to figure out what is my sexy.
And I find that I don't know if you find
this for yourself. I find that, like, especially being somebody
that is on camera, that like, there's what I Brandon

(54:57):
think is sexy and how I feel sexy, and then
there is my portrayal of sexy that I know to
be consumed sexy to be consumed which are not the
same thing, right, right, Like how I show up in
my quote unquote set. I just posted a photo today

(55:17):
and it's like, it's me shirtless with like my my
denim jeans, like the button undone, and I'm like on
my forearm and I'm looking into camera and my lips
are juicy, and I know that that's going to be
consumed as sexy. But that's not necessarily when I feel
my sexiest, right I feel my sexiest when I'm like home, shirtless,

(55:40):
wearing my colorful cardigan and my like crocheted hat like
my barber made for me, and my like sweats and
I'm just like chilling. That's when I feel sexy. But
arguably you might see that i'd be like, girl, no,
do you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Definitely it's grown over time as well. But sexy was
always one of those things. Maybe it's because I grew
up on Little Kim. I don't know. I just always
channeled that, like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Low Kim was your avatar elqu J's mind. Low Kim
was your.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Cam Adina Howard. Yeah, Sharon Stone, Oh yes, if you
mix those women up, you might have a little bit
of trace going on. I think it's just like, it's
not to say that I don't like being sexy. I do.
I think it's great. I just think it's it's not
something I don't know. It's not something I had to

(56:32):
really fight for. And I want to be honest about
that because I think there's there's there's probably privilege in that,
but there's also there's also a lot of trauma there
and heartbreak and you know, being the forbidden fruit and
all of these things that come along with it.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
I was gonna ask if there's a burden of sexy
and like what the burden as much as you want
to share, not but like, what is like the burden
of sexy?

Speaker 2 (56:59):
The burden of sex? See that I'm actually a diehard
romantic and so a lot of people will will just
want to taste or just you know, want to consume
you for a moment, but not necessarily bringing home to mom.
And that is probably the duality that's hard to sit

(57:21):
with sometimes the fantasy.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
They want the fantasy, but not the realness.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Yeah, especially when you add in the trends of it all,
it's just it's bizarre to be It's bizarre to be
desired so heavily and then know that it's very surface
and you filter. Your filter has to get real sharp.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
And when you say you're filter, you mean like figuring
out like who's there for you and who's just kind
of there tasting.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Yeah, decoding what their approach is really giving.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Are there similar flags or patterns that you've noticed when
you are discerning between somebody who is there just for
like the fantasy of sexy versus like who you are? Like,
are there a common You're like, it's all like somebody
who always says this or like they always do this thing,
and it's like, my that's my scooby doo. Ears go
up because it's like, oh.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Work, yeah. Well, typically if it gets too sexual too soon,
uh huh, then I get a little turned off. They
become basic to me because I'm like, oh, yeah, okay,
you're in that pile over there that masks people over
there that just want to bust a nut or whatever
you want. Like it's a vibe.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
It's very relatable to say, oh, the world sees me
as this, but I'm craving this other thing. So if
the world is perceiving sexy but I'm a diehard romantic,
then there's a an internal reckoning that has to happen
as you move through the world so that you can
like stay true to who you are. But then there's
also this energy that you're navigating, and I would imagine

(58:59):
that it's taking some time to figure out what those
coping tools are or what those tools are to navigate
that so that you can stand in your truth and
yourself as you do. And so I'm curious what that
is for you, or what that what those tools are,
or what that reckoning looks like.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Oh gosh, I think I'm still figuring it out lately.
It's just being careful where I put my energy. I
know that sounds really broad, but no, I also take
people for what they show me to be. You know
that my Angelou.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Yeah shows you there. I believe them the first time. Yep.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
Yeah. And so if you're showing me that you're basic
or just sex driven, then I may not even say anything.
I may just log it and you know, proceed accordingly.
And I don't know. I try to hold out hope
for love, but I've been single a long time, so

(01:00:00):
I'm also trying to make peace with the fact that
I might not get that. In this lifetime. Not to
say I've never had love, but I've never had like
a very long term relationship like past maybe two years,
and I've just, for whatever reason, this just hasn't been
in the cards for me. And I'm coming to terms

(01:00:21):
now in middle age that maybe that's as romantic as
I am, but that's just not a part of my
purpose here on earth and or at least in this
go around. And can I find contentment outside of that,
because I think that was my driving force for so long.

(01:00:45):
Love was like the thing I dreamt about and wanted
the most, more than career even And now I'm just
kind of trying to recenter what might matter the most
and what I can be with.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Do you have a community or other people around you
who are also like experiencing the same thing in terms
of like looking for romance and love but haven't been
able to find it. And I asked this because I
think this is a common thing that I hear amongst
my girlfriends that are navigating, Like, oh, I thought that
there was going to be this like romantic, you know,

(01:01:25):
movie kind of love, and now you know, I'm turning
thirty eight next week. You so, like my friends are
in thirties forties, and it's like, oh, everything that I
thought this was going to look like it's not. And
so now I'm needing to like shift it. But I'm wondering,
are you doing that in community or do you feel

(01:01:45):
like you're doing that solo?

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
Yeah, a little bit of both. I have a couple
of friends who do have healthy relationships, but even those
relationships don't look like what they thought right, like right,
And I'm realizing with the divorce rate, this fantasy that
we've been sold is not always the reality. It's just

(01:02:10):
changing your lens, I guess, and how you view the
world and what is positive, what you should be grateful for,
and what is possible and what's icing on the cake?
You know, a lot of just reconfiguring is going on.
I mean, I'm forty three and so I do this

(01:02:33):
is getting way deeper than I thought. But like I
long for, like I long for being the twenty something
beautiful girl who's in love and I never really got that,
you know, I never really got that. And so now
I'm like, well, what do I do now? And what

(01:02:53):
is the new hope? Because if you don't have hope,
what do you have? What do you how do you
keep going.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Yeah, that's true, that's true. Yeah, Yeah, we need hope.
Whatever it is, you need hope to keep pushing through.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
This is really a sad topic.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
Now it doesn't have to be. We can move it,
We can switch it up.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Girl.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
No I I thank you for sharing with that, because
I think that there are so many people who are
reconfiguring in whatever way that looks like, whether that's romantically, professionally.
And I think that our generation we were talking about
this off mic a little earlier, which is like, you know,
we thought the adults had it figured out, and so

(01:03:35):
now we're adults and we're like, oh, they didn't have
nothing figured out, and so like now we're trying to
figure it out and trying to figure out what what
is relationship? What is marriage? What is love? What is community?
What is work? What are the things that I was
taught I need to have value in? What should I
actually have value in? And I think above all, like
what is my happiness? And is my happiness though you

(01:03:59):
know the pick white the house with the white fence,
or is it something else? And can I give in
what we were talking about earlier with preferences and beauty
preferences it's like, can I expand what would make me happy?
Or can I expand what I thought this would look
like and and diversify or you know, make the buffet

(01:04:22):
the smorgasbord a little wider so that I'm not just
beholden to Oh, it's supposed to look like me and
that man and three kids in the suburbs, right, which
I think a lot of us were pointing towards, we
were taught to point towards that, and now the reckoning
present days like, Okay, if that's not happening, I'm still here,

(01:04:44):
and I still deserve to be happy, and I still
deserve to live a big, expansive, beautiful life, and I
just might need to reassess what I'm valuing perhaps, and so,
but you can't do that unless you saw about it.
So I really appreciate you talking about it because I
know that for people listening, it's like, oh, that that

(01:05:05):
is maybe the wall that they're bumping up against, Like
some of who are bumping bumping up against these walls
and they don't know they don't even know they're bumping
up against the wall or what the wall is, or
who put the wall there? And you know, I think
that society put those walls there, but it's our.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
Job to break additions are putting there from such a
young age. Yes, you know, expectations will have you fucked
up out here.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Say it again, expectations will have you fucked up out here?

Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
Have you fucked up out here instead of just being
in the literal moment?

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Yes, Trace, thank you so much. This was like fucking everything. Yes,
I'll talk to you very so good to see yours.
I love you, baby, I love you too.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
You know we're hose here, but hose with heart. So
before we part ways, let me speak to yours. First
of all, I promise this summer, and I'm saying it again,
and you hold me accountable. I don't make it happen,
but I will make it happen. I will let myself
get bent over a log to take a log in nature,

(01:06:27):
and I will report back. Or maybe I'll bend somebody
over a log and take and give them dick. We'll
see what happens. But I promise you I will let
myself experience sex in nature, and I'll report back and
let you know how I feel about it. Okay, so
there's that. I really love this allow yourself to explore
your attraction preferences. What do you find beautiful? And I

(01:06:51):
think you know, this is a part of that disruptive
curiosity I was talking about at the top of the show,
which is what are you actually attracted to? And can
you give yourself permission to be attracted to those things?
Can you also ask yourself why you were attracted to
certain things? Right? Like, is your attraction to this certain
type or this certain build your own or because you

(01:07:14):
were taught that that's what's attractive. I've talked about this
in my book You Got to Be You and Online,
you know, just like growing up being fed images of
whiteness as beautiful and downloading that to mean that my
dark skin isn't beautiful. And around eighteen nineteen when I

(01:07:34):
went to my first big breakup and I went to
the school therapists and why you had a therapist and
I remember saying to her, I don't think I'll ever
be as attractive as a white man. And I didn't
until she looked at me, a white woman looked at
me crazy. I was like, oh, I have a problem.
And I realized I had the problem because I had
never asked about my preferences. I'd never asked what I

(01:07:57):
actually thought about myself. I'd never asked about what I
was attracted to and if that's what I wanted to
be attracted to or if that's what I was being
told to be attracted to. No, honey, baby, the black
or the berry, the sweet or the juice, and a's
on tea. That's period. I know what beauty is, okay.

(01:08:18):
And I have an expansive concept of what beauty is
and what I'm attracted to, and it just continues to
evolve and grow and expand because I've been willing to
ask those hard questions. You know, where are your preferences?
Where are your attractions coming from? And do they belong
to you? And are there other things that you're attracted

(01:08:41):
to that you've been taught you shouldn't be attracted to?
And can you can you start to make space for
yourself to to make that okay? Because it is okay, babe,
there's you know that like one cookie cutter version of
beauty borring Okay. By the way, Also, when I say

(01:09:05):
smooth like I like you know, I say you're talking
about like, you know, like a smooth man who smells
good I'm not talking about hairless, be hairy. I love it.
I love hair. I love hairy. Also, if you want
to be hairless, I love it. What I'm talking about
is being soft. I want soft. That's why I want
you to moisturize. So I don't know who needs to
hear this, but get you some aveno love, get you

(01:09:26):
some keels love. Get you some shade butter or some
cocoa butter, some almond oil, some hoba oil. Yes, it's
just get you something to like soften its skin. Okay,
moisturize your dick, but also moisturize your whole body and
moisturize your face. Your face is a moisturizer. Softness, you
know it's good for you. But also, like when your

(01:09:49):
partner's touching, you, get them something smooth to touch. Now listen,
maybe your partner likes rough and so you talk to
your partner. But for me, Lord, I want it to
be smooth. I wanted to be soft. Don't want to
be soft. Harry Hoes, my hairy hoes. I love you, God,
I do love a hairy ho expectations. As Trey said,
well have you fucked up out here? And I think

(01:10:11):
that so many of us can relate to what we
thought we were supposed to be or what we thought
we were supposed to have, or who we thought we
were supposed to be, and then needing to shift that
and bring it up again. And that's where that curiosity
comes in, Like what is happiness actually? What is a
thing that I really want? What is the thing I

(01:10:33):
thought would make me happy? Is that still true? And
what are the other ways that I can live if
I don't get this thing that I thought I always
wanted or I may even still want, like it's okay,
and if you like I want the romance. But if
I don't get that or that version of it that
I'm looking for, does that mean I'm destined to be unhappy?
Or can I again reconfigure or redress at what I

(01:11:01):
want my life to look?

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
Where's the hope? You know what I'm saying. You have
to have a relationship with hope, even in the midst
of darkness, even in the midst of the shadows and
of the sadness. You have to maintain a relationship with hope.
And so I think when we think about reconfiguring life

(01:11:25):
for that happiness that is dancing with hope and going no, no, no.
Even if I don't get what I thought this would
look like, I still get to be happy. I still
get to be loved. I get to feel loved and
I get to love. I get to be compassionate. I
get to experience the best this life has to offer.

(01:11:46):
I just might have to expand what that looks like.
And then, of course I do love. And this is important.
When someone shows who they are, believe in the first time.
Come on, doctor Angelo, that that is maybe my next tattoo.
That is That is everything as you navigate and pursue relationships,

(01:12:10):
whether they be romantic, platonic, familial, whatever, it is professional
when someone shows you who they are. Don't excuse it, babe,
believe it. If that person is a dick to the waiter, honey,
they're gonna be a dick to you. If that person
was able to uh, you know, if that person is
scamming over here, it's only a matter of time before

(01:12:30):
they scam for you. That thing where people go, well,
it hasn't. They haven't done that to me, So I
don't know, Baby, you're sitting duck. If that person was
able to be unkind and you know, and you know,
listen if somebody was an asshole and deserved that response short,
but if somebody was just unprovoked and unkind without compassion,

(01:12:51):
or is tearing somebody else down or talking shit about
that you know what I'm saying, It's only amount of
time before that thing turns on you. That's just how
it is. So when somebody shows you they are believe
in the first time, which is why Also, this is
why I also love curiosity, because I like to ask
questions and I want to hear what you have to
say about it. I want to listen because people are
going when you go on dates, come with your questions

(01:13:12):
and not in like a grilling way, but ask questions
because people will tell you exactly who they are by
how they answer those questions. They will they will tell
you without fail people will tell you exactly who they are.
You just got to ask the question. Okay. Anyways, I'm
so grateful to Trace for being here. Obsessed with her,

(01:13:35):
I can't say it's enough. If you have not watched Monica,
please hunt that movie down and watch it. It is
beautiful and TRACE's work is some of the most stunning
work I've seen on film. That is no hyperbole. Trace
is a master of the craft of acting. That's period. Okay,

(01:13:56):
She's incredible in that movie and I remember seeing it
and just being completely speechless, and I couldn't believe that.
I was like, that's my friend, Lord of Mercy, I
know our that's crazy because what a fucking beast, what
a fucking uh just what's the word or just just

(01:14:17):
like expert expertly performed, expertly delivered. So watch Monica. All right,
that's the show. You can find me on Instagram as
well at Brandon Kyle Goodman. You can find our podcast
at tell Me Something Messy, and you can join our
community on the Messy Monday's substack. When you subscribe, you'll

(01:14:39):
get weekly posts, recommendations on sex and self and so
much more. Also, I want to hear from you, so
send your topic ideas, your messy stories, your submissions, your
game ideas to tell Me Something Messy at gmail dot com.
You can also call us at six six nine sixty
nine Messy That is six six' nine nine six three

(01:15:01):
seven seven. Nine rate review and share this podcast with
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the politics of that dick before you make it, spit
make sure they eat the kitty before they beat the,
kitty before fucation or succation. Communication and in case you

(01:15:22):
haven't heard it, yet today you are so deeply. LOVED
i love you. Bye thank you so much for listening
To Tell Me Something. Messy if you all enjoyed the,
show send the episode to someone else who might like.
It Tell Me Something messy was executive produced By Ali,
Perry Gabrielle, collins And Yours. Truly our producer and editor

(01:15:45):
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