Resentment, Environment, and the Blueprint for Great Sex w/ Erica Chidi

Brandon sits down with Erica Chidi, writer, producer and health educator, to talk secret trysts, and the thrill of keeping one bedroom a clean, always-ready zone for erotic fun. They dive into Erica’s four-pronged framework for keeping the urgency of intimacy ablaze: letting go of the extra partner in bed, reset your environment, manage pain, and set goals in the bedroom. On this episode, talking it through is the kink, baby!

 

More about Erica: https://www.ericachidi.com/

Submit your anonymous messy stories and game ideas at SomethingMessy.com or call 669 696 3779

Comments and suggestions email [e-mail] 

Video: youtube.com/brandonkgood

Substack: brandonkylegoodman.substack.com

Heaux Church Tickets: https://arsnovanyc.com/events/heaux/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Talking about relationship, sex and identity always reminds me that
being a human is messy. So I wanted to create
a compassionate space where we feel less alone and embrace
our mess together funny, the vulnerable, the cringe, and even
the kinky. Because every part of who we are matters.
So I'll be shy. Baby, tell me something messy, messy patroons.

(00:22):
Come on, baby, welcome to the show. I am your
messy mom. Brandon Kyle Goodman don't forget. You can watch
the Hoe visuals of this episode on YouTube dot com.
Backslash Brandon K. Good or it might be a forward slash.
I still don't know. Somebody tell me but Brandon k
good on YouTube. Okay, maybe you know what that means.
It is time for a guess. Now, while they get situated,

(00:44):
and before we go into our home manifesto, I just
want to remind you that I am currently in New
York doing my show Hoe Church over at Ours Nova
from October eighth until November eighth. You can get tickets
at Brandonkyle Gooodman dot com. Also, don't forget to subscribe
to our podcast and to our YouTube channel and tell
a friend about what we do here because it really

(01:05):
helps us grow the podcast and continue to do the work.
And I love so much. All right now for our
Hoe Manifesto, Grant me the serenity to unpack my shame,
the courage to heal, the wisdom to know that sex
is not about penetration, the audacity to advocate for my
pleasure and boundaries. The strength to not call my ex

(01:27):
that fuck boy, fuck girl, or fuck day, for it
is better to masturbate by myself in peace than to
let someone play in my mother fucking face. Let the
wholemmunity say hollelujah baby. Today We've got the brilliant Erica Chitty.
She's a writer, a producer, strategist, health educator who's been
changing the game with the intersection of wellness and culture.

(01:49):
She's the former co founder and CEO of Bloom. She
wrote the influential book Nurture and now runs her own
creative studio called Bringing Untold Stories to Life. She's so
dope and one of my favorite people to eat with. Y'all.
Please help me welcome into our messy living room. Erica Hitty, Hi, Hi, Erica, Hey, there,
how you doing.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
I'm so glad to be here.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Star sister.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Sibling.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
We're doing it, but people don't know. But you and
I have only met Oh my god, I met at by.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
The time of this lifetime, this last lifetime come.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
On period, this lifetime, we've only met like two or
three months ago.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
I mean we're giving it's giving three. It's giving three
almost ninety days, which means the trial is always up.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Okay, that home honeymoon phase. Now we're like in the
real relationships relationship. I'm so happy you're here. Okay, Before
we get started our our messy mandates for our messy
ki ky, so things get to be unprocessed. Any thoughts
or opinion shared have the right to evolve, shift or
change today, tomorrow, ten years from now. And if during
our kiky something feels too personal or unintentionally offense, we
use the safe word football, which gives us a chance

(02:55):
to pause and pivot accordingly.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Sound good, sounds good?

Speaker 1 (02:57):
I love it? Okay, So how about this, let's or with
a loue breaker? Okay, okay, So toay's loue breaker is
lick or it. So I'm going to give you a
prompt and you're gonna tell me if you would lick
it or if it's an it. Yes that sounds real. Yes,
that sounds real. It is real. Yeah, we're doing it.
That sounds good. I have a lot of ecks. So okay,
here we go. Okay, lovely, I'm excited. Okay, here we go.
So liquor it pickles dipped in peanut butter.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
You try to put me, you're trying to put me
under underground. You're trying to kill me on firstly, fully
appipen allergic to peanuts.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Oh okay, so that's that's it.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
It's a non starter. But I really love pickles.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Okay, So would it be like in like in a
different kind of butter, Like what if pickles? Can you
put pickles in just regular butter? That sounds crazy that,
you know, you.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Know, with with my little culinary background, I could see
a pickle dipped in like ta heene, which is kind
of a scene butter. It's sesame seeds yea into you know,
kind of liquid paste.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Okay, because how if you eat their pickles?

Speaker 2 (03:57):
I really just eat a pickle them right at that jar. Sometimes.
Well it's so funny. My mom and now my fiance
both refer to me as squirrel when I eat because
I typically like to eat standing up, and I'm like
opening a little jar and someone comes in and they're just.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Like, what is happening?

Speaker 2 (04:15):
So pickles can definitely be on their own sometimes good.
If you have like a sensy tummy like I do,
you can never pill. Then you can have a pillow.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Then you can ever pickle a pill pillow and a pickle,
pill pillow and a pickle. I love that. That's also
a good little tongue cist. It is okay.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Liquor crocs with socks lick all day long, baby day
on for so many reasons. One tell me socks could
be compression socks fair and compression socks feel really nice
and they're like mentally organizing and if you feel like
you're in your body, you're getting all this propey aceptive feedback.
So I really am apropriate aceptives. So appropriate aceptive is

(04:52):
pee are? Oh? Pehu are pro propri Oh So I'm dyslexic.
We tried, we try, we tried. But basically, appropriate reception
means being able to understand where you are in space.
So compression socks, compression clothing can help you feel more

(05:13):
orientated and feel where you are, And it's really good
for people that are having a lot of pain in
their body something I struggle with a bunch of conic pain,
or people that are struggling to concentrate. That's why weighted
vests can feel nice for working or when they're walking, not.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Just sleeping blankets.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
I I love a thermal sock. Thermal sock because I
get cold, and if you get cald, my hands could
right now. So I always wear a thermal so I
never it's cold on air. But I never got shout out,
no shade. I never got into the crocs.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Fine, fine, they don't miss you.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
And now they're done, they're thriving, they're driving. But every
time I see one, I have questions because when they
first came out, they were really quite a site to behold.
But now I'm used to it, so you see it
and now they're like Croc sneakers and.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
All kinds of things with Croc platforms. They did, And
I'll tell you the Crocs that I have been wearing
for years and years. I used to wear the normal Croc,
like the everyday crocs during the pandemic, where I threw
out half my wardrobe because I was like, it's never
going to be needed again. We're going to say even
though I knew that the pandemic was probably going to
be three to five years before we recover, because my

(06:25):
dad's an infectious disease specialist and so we lived in
South Africa for many many years and he did HIV
and AIDS research. I was just like, I'm not going
to need anything, so I don't have any wear crocs.
But I did switch over to switch over always warm
Birkenstocks where they started.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
I don't want to stock, oh it must.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
I also have super flat feet and I do. Yeah,
so like.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
So Bergenstock is helpful. Little Yeah, we'll continue the game.
But I associate Burgenstock's with school in Georgia because I
went to high school in Georgia and so it was
the first time I saw Burgenstocks. Where so it has
like a relationship to white people, like southern like just
like like triggering because you can imagine like I would.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Just sure say less some crazy folks shout out to y'all.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, recently, I'm like, oh, I actually like the vibe.
It looks comfy, and who doesn't want to be I
always want to be in a sweatpant. I always want
to be in a soft pant. You see me on
jeans sometimes on this couch, but mostly I want to
be in a soft pant and like a soft shoe.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yes, and you're getting that, you're getting that. It depends
on what kind of burken stock you're going to get.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
I want the closed toe one because I don't like
my toest out.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Definitely closed in America and America.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
Come on whatever, people walking in them flip flops on
the dirty floor. Girl, No, girl, I've seen.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
It really depends on where you are, Like I think,
if you're you know, somewhere really tropical, because I grew
up in Africa, people did wear like javianas, which is
like this Brazil you know, flip flop or slops line
that they have how they say it overseas.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
Okay, you culture overseas.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Not here, not in this room, not in the studio. Yeah,
so overseas they wear slops and because it's so humid
and warm, which I think maybe, you know, we could
give Florida some credit, we could give some other places
that are tropical some credit near in the States. But
you just wear them because you actually your feet, you're warm,

(08:27):
you're humid, you're like just sweating. It's just nicer to
not have your feet trapped.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
But here I don't understand it. God bless put their
dirty their dirty bags and whatnot on the bed.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
I don't, Mama, I don't. I don't know what this
is supposed to be about today, but definitely I don't.
It's like just how I was raised. I can only
speak for myself. But the Caribbean, the Caribbean Nigerian. Actually,
you know, shoes in the house is already.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Like are already find sometimes.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
You know, it does feel better to just keep the
shoe is on the weather or whatever. But she's in
the bedroom.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
No, no, on the on the bed, on the couch. Fight, No,
we'll fight.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
We'll fight.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
We'll fight. It'll be a fight. Fight. My husband, who
is famously white, God bless him, God bless him. When
we first got together, he was he was loved to
put that bag on the bed. And when I tell
you bag luggage, luggage from the airport, love, after it's
been through the through the back of the plane, took
the damn turn turn turnsile is that nancy that you

(09:31):
know they are cleaning? And then he will put that
bag on the bed and I had to say love love.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
No, no, that's totally one of most useful.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
No, no.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
About take it.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
I love that show. Come on, quad liquor, cotton candy
grapes gross wait wait.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Wait, cotton candy like the verital of grapes? What are
called cotton candy? Oh no, that's very it is very.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
So many words serious.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
And you said perceptive, perceptive, Okay, love, love, love, delicious, right, Yes,
I love GMO crafted food like no lie, like I live.
I live for it because it gives us those cotton
candy grapes. It's also given us cosmic crisp apples.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Oh I don't know, shout out, shout out to cosmic cs, call.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Me, text me, send me apples. Be very happy about it.
They're just like perfect. It's they're genetically modified to be
that way.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Modified organism lovely Okay. Liquor dirty talk with accents what Yeah,
I've never done it, but when I saw I was
like that would be interesting.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah, because I'm like an accent person, Like I'm such
a weirdo. I'm always always I don't I don't even know.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
A wow, I'm bad at accents. I just never got it.
So the new Yorker is like just so deep. My
accent teachers and my speech teachers were always like, you know, love,
let me tell you a black Britain. The first time
I saw a black British person, it really took me out.
I was I remember seven or eight and this woman

(11:37):
my mom was hanging with some friends and like one
of the women were British and black, and I said,
crisis immediately, internal crisis, breakdown. How do I do? Wait?

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Are you caught up on the black folks? Are folks
in Scotland?

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Scotland? Finding the people in Scotland?

Speaker 2 (11:54):
I mean, of course they're in Ireland too, Like it's
all there, but like just a visibility.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
I'll be honest and say I was all so shocked.
It's fine, I'll be I'll be vulnerable to say. I
was like, oh, because because I grew up with the
myth of like, oh, we're not everywhere.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Everywhere everywhere that's labor has been needed or has been
a place to escape persecution. We're going to be there.
We're going to be there, and they've got a friendly
immigrant policy to any any place like that.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
So is that where we're going?

Speaker 2 (12:22):
It's too cold for me for now, you never know.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
You never know. That's what uh, liquorics spit in your mouth,
that's going to be an eck.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Now I have my messy story though. When I first
got together with my fiance many years ago, I remember,
like in that early stage, just like wanting to be
like hypersexual and like kind, I was like, I like
spitting in people's mouths, and I like it when people
spit in my mouth, and like we broke up for

(12:55):
a long time and got when we got back together,
she was like, are you still in to that? And
I was like, no, no, never was, never was, but
just it felt like felt like it just felt like
good to say and be like anything, and I'm down
and da da.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Da no no I am. It has to be the
right person in the right spit and of course all
these are the divine version of it. But when the
first time it happened, well, I'm terrible at spitting because
my mouth gets dry. Usually I also, like I love
a little sex edible or a little weeds, my mouth
is getting dry. So when somebody's like spit, I remember
the first time I told me somebody told me to
spit in them, and I was like, spit it their face.

(13:32):
I wasn't sure what they meant, so I literally spit
in their face and I was like, oh that's not nope.
You want me in your mouth.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
You want to put Some people want on the reds.
People want their face.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
They want in his mouth, and I was like, oh,
my bad, okay, yeah, or they wanted.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
On their I don't know. You can go anywhere. You
didn't do anything. All I want to say is you
didn't do anything wrong.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Thank you. They didn't give you directives, they didn't even
write locations. But I do. I do, like if it's
hot and you can and you can do it. I
love spitting the mouth. I just can't always recip kada yeah,
I feel about yeah, but in your if you're like
it's something like nasty, because you know, I'm a I'm
a girl who likes I want to be up in
your armpits. I want your feet in my mouth sniffer.

(14:10):
I'm a sniffer, so like, you know, tap my balls, spit.
You win the game, by the way, congratulations, you win
a lollipop. Look at this and I made this bowl too,
so but I didn't make these lollipops. So there's the
organic ones.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
In the blowpops, this pomegranate pucker.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
That's one of my favorites. Go ahead, you win, okay. Uh.
If y'all have prompts or game ideas, you can email
tell me something messy at gmail dot com. Speaking of which, Erica, yes,
can you tell me something messy?

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Well, I feel like I did tell you something messy
with the lying about liking spit and sure, but I'm
trying to think what's another what's another good It's.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
Another good story?

Speaker 2 (14:50):
M So I despise laboobos.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Tell me what laboos are because I'm seeing them on
the internet listening their minds and I don't really know
what it is.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Okay, So basically they are a they are toy based
off of a TV show in China. It could be
TV show, it could be a game. No, it's a
TV show. And they have like beanie babies and La
boobies are like interlinked in terms of like they're still around,

(15:22):
but they're not. Like yeah, so like the level of
fervor of beanie babies, So the level of fervor for
beanie babies is very similar to the level of fervor
for La boobs. Okay, Now, my thing about it it
actually comes down to hygiene issues, and it's funny we're
already talking about it. And then I also have this
other component to bring to it. One like I think

(15:44):
China is amazing. I love Southeast Asia. I mean the
culture so many different components are so beautiful and captivating,
and there's true culture there, like true culture in a
way that I identify as being Nigerian having coldulture, you
Caribbean having culture like we have, like our food, there's history, foods,

(16:04):
there's history, there's you know, and obviously not all history
is good. You know. China just have a complicated and
you know, violent pass as most nation states do. But
my thing with with La Boo Boos are firstly, I
think they're really ugly. And that's coming from someone who
really loves Marie Sandak. I love like Where the Wild

(16:26):
Things Are, Like, I also grew up loving like the
Stinky Cheese Man. I can.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yes, I love that book.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yes, But as much as I'm into that type of ghoulish,
quasi scary comical.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Fanatic, yeah, I just am.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
I feel very concerned about La Boo Boos. I feel
like there's just like there's dark energy around them. Okay,
it's giving dark, it's giving dark energy. It's also I
just feel like everybody that has one, they're just out,
you know, ye on your bag, They're on the table there,
in your car, everywhere you went. You just went to

(17:06):
K Barbecue, you had your lab boo there, Your la
boob is coming back with you smelling like K barbecue.
They just collect a lot of Yeah, the hold hold
smells and like not necessarily germs, but I just don't
know how you keep something like that safe. Yeah, you know,
and clean. And I feel like, fine, if you had
a labuobo its in your house and it just stayed there,
It's just it's a traveling.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
It's the traveling of the loa.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
And also I'm sure people are getting little booo stolen
because they're just hanging.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Off your bags. Are they valuable?

Speaker 2 (17:32):
They are? Oh wow, they are certain certain types certain.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Like like like these are like Pokemon.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Cards almost yes, in the same so Pokemon cards being
babies la booboo are all like in conversation in terms
of like collectible items that have a lot of I
would say a lot of sentimentality sentiment attached to them.
But yeah, I just think that they look evil. I
feel like you can't keep them clean. Yeah, And I'm

(17:57):
also just like the thing for me that I also
find challenging is what I want with something like La
Boo Boo, Like, and I don't think evil as in
the person who made them is. I just when I
look at it, I don't feel soft. I feel like
I gotta get this out of here. Oh no, why
is that you know looking at me?

Speaker 1 (18:17):
But I just like those porcelain dolls. Yes, they're like
just a little creepy.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, it's just like the Yeah, the fixed the fixed
emotion that's on the face of the La Boo boo
is hard to take in, Okay. And then my last
thing though, is I feel like with this resart, with
this excitement about Laboo boo is what I also would
want to see, because labooboos are a product of Chinese culture.
Is just more love and support for Asian people, Like
if you're in the love everything, pretty much everything we

(18:43):
have in this room probably was shipped from there. I
just I just want things to feel I don't want
to just I don't want the focus to only be
on labooboos. I want the focus to be on like
who developed it and.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
When it comes from the culture behind it.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
That just feels like another, you know, capitalist chasm where
you just fall into. But I also don't like hype.
I've never been that.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
You're like anything that She's like, people are.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Anti until it's over. That's then the hype is done,
like a succession. I didn't watch when it was on TV.
I watched it afterwards. Was very happy about that.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
Do you enjoy success?

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Loved it. It's great writing.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
It's great writing. I had to watch it with the subtitles. Yeah, well,
thank you for telling me something.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Messy that's a little all over the place, and I'm.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
Like, we're messy here. I love it. Okay, shall we
do some messy mail? Yes, beautiful, let's do it all right.
As always, your submissions remain anonymous, So this one says
messy mom. I was out at brunch with my besties.
Mimosa's flowing, everyone vibing, and my friend decides to tell
the entire table about a very intimate move my boyfriend

(19:47):
and I tried last week. She said it like it
was just a fun story, but I saw the whole
restaurant turn to look at me. I laughed it off
in the moment, but inside I was mortified. Now, part
of me wants to just let it slide, and part
of me wants to casually drop one of her private
stories next time we're all out. Is that too petty
or just fair game?

Speaker 2 (20:04):
I wish I knew what it was same, because I
think that's.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Well, I'm just curious.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
Yeah, I'm curious. I'm curious because you know, I think
I think tit for TAT is like a really interesting
human behavior. Yeah, well, because you did this, I'm I'm
gonna do worse.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Friend.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
No, I feel like, well, what kind of friend?

Speaker 1 (20:25):
But when do we have a conversation with the friend?
I would have the conversation with the friend and be like,
grow up.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
But maybe this friend doesn't listen. You know. It's giving
a little bit like this friend's been talked to before.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Oh you know.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
I feel like this person who wrote in is like
I'm a little bit on my last leg like this person. Yeah,
And I feel like the only way to get this
behavior to change is to actually have her experience it.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Ah. I never thought about like that. I get. I mean,
I guess I'm of two minds. I guess, on one hand,
if that's the case, and you think this person will
learn by experience. Then perhaps just you know letter.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Experience, Yeah, literally experience, because nothing is nothing is better
than you know, shame, you know, SAME's a great teacher.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
You know. Here's the I would have the I mean
I probably more likely have the conversation. But also I'm
that like Maya Angelo and somebody shows you who they are,
I believe in the first time, and I'm like, I'll
probably never tell you anything again.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Oh absolutely not.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Never speak like you know, we can speA key, but
that you only got to tell you only got to
show me what one time, how you move. And if
you feel like you could say something that I shared
with you about my relationship at a table and who
knows if it's a mixed table, if it's a or
we're all besties, then that's like, oh you got something
I don't. I don't like how you I don't like

(21:46):
how you dance.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yes, totally, I'm very much about you know, definitely want
to give people a chance. Sure, you know, but if
it's you know, more than three times, really is my thing?

Speaker 1 (21:57):
You give them three?

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, because the first time I will tell you, yes,
the second time I might tell you because sometimes I
need more than one chance. Sure, that's why I can
work as a new and I'm like, more than one
chances is helpful.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
But third time, third time, we should know.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, third time is just like I don't. I don't
have the bandwidth to continue like correcting your behavior.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
I can't because especially with your friends, I need to
be able to relax around you totally because everything else
is hyper vigilant. With my friends, I need to like
and if I can't do that with you, then yeah, no, no, okay.
This one says when my ex cheated on me, I
didn't slash his tires, I just logged into his Netflix
and changed all the profiles to my name. So he
had to explain it to his new girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Clever, clever, very nice, very nice, very.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
Nice, kind of brilliant.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, I'm trying to think of all the scenarios of
how that unpacts, Like when is the moment for that?
When are they seeing it?

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, like it's great, Like it reminds me of one person.
I think. I don't know if they were to me
or if something her, because at this point it's all
one but somebody when they when they broke up with
their partner, they took all the remotes. Yeah, they took
all the remote, yeah, to the Apple TV, to the speaker.

(23:18):
They just took all.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
And also it feels so crazy that you can't even
tell people about it because what's that call? What's that sort?
Oh my god, you know my girl just left and
she took all the remotes. They're just like, what's wrong
with this? What's wrong with you?

Speaker 1 (23:33):
Know, like if you're the partner who's left, like, do
you even know that the remotes are missing? Or do
you think you've just misplaced it?

Speaker 2 (23:40):
If they were, if they were all missing, I would know,
I would know one one not being there. Sure, maybe
I misplaced it, but yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
Might do that. I might like steal the Apple TV
remote because that's the one that's easy to lose, and
I might just take that with me. And I guess
you could do it on your phone, but.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
That's already you'll win, already win. Never took a twinning
because you've got to download the fuck aunt.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
I would need a camera in the house just to
be like just to like watch you pulling things apart.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
You look at that just at home, look at this.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
On my Apple TV watching you. Yes, absolutely, and then
like in a year send a little photo of it. Yeah,
a little right.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Now, like a little polaroid. It's like all three remotes,
and then it's like looking for the I need like
fifteen dollars, yes, yes, because it's not gonna be a
high amount of It's gonna be like pretty reasonable and
kind of like I would pay that much to get
these back.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yeah, a little you know, a little little venmo request
and you might get these back. Maybe maybe it depends
on why are relationship bended? I'm crying, I really.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
I can really see the the remotes, just like.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Looking looking for these and like a long time after
just like Peddy, like that's that's that's a good petty crime. Anyways,
this says I've been sneaking across the street in the
afternoons to meet up with my new fuck buddy, convenient Right.
What started as casual quikies has already turned into us

(25:22):
playing with some kink, light bondage, a little power play,
which has made it even harder to resist. It feels
hot and secret, like our own little world. But now
I'm catching myself thinking about them outside of the bedroom.
How do you know when a fun, kinky situationship is
starting to slip? Into something deeper. I think if you
start feeling butterflies or you start thinking about them non stop.

(25:42):
And also, by the way, like I also like to
discern between like lust and actual feelings, like there's something where, Oh,
this person is across the street, we're having great sex,
but how much do I actually really know about them?
Because we can have great sex and it not be
a relationship. I'm starting to think about them more. Then

(26:03):
perhaps I'm like, oh, maybe there are some feelings here,
But then I'd be like, well, how much do I
really know about them? And what's going on in my
own relationship or my own history of relationships, and am
I reaching for something that is unattainable? Sometimes I think
we go after things that we know aren't actually a
thing because it's safer for us to pursue as opposed
to pursuing someone who's available.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. I think when someone
is preoccupying your thoughts NonStop, that probably is a pretty
clear indicator that they've tapped into something that is deeper
than physical chemistry. That said, depending on the type of
kink and power play that's going on, I think there

(26:45):
can be a little bit discrepancy between I'm thinking about
them all the time, equaling I want more from this
relationship too. I'm thinking about them all the time because
the permission and the limit setting within this dynamic is
really comforting, and I can't get that limit setting anywhere else.

(27:05):
I feel like a lot of times I think a
lot of the liberation within. I'm sure you've talked to
all kinds of people, and I know that you have
your baseline on it as well. But you know, kink BDSM,
it's it is very relational in the sense that there's clarity,
that's what I'm doing to you, Here's what you're gonna
do to me. You can't really find that in a

(27:26):
lot of environments in the world where you set up
a lot of people set up contracts like here's what
we're doing in this in our you know, kink BDSM box.
And again, it's not something you can recreate in the
larger world. And so it makes sense to me for
strong feelings to come up and a lot of hyper

(27:48):
preoccupation around it. And so I would say to that person,
see if you can find one other person that can
give you a similar type of experience, maybe more than
one kink partner if there's someone that's open to being
Polly and see if what you actually are craving or
having feelings or thoughts about are actually about the system

(28:11):
of the system of you know, erotic exchange sex that
you're experiencing. It's actually the system and the ability to
limit set with someone else. You're getting a lot of
control and a lot of containment. And that can feel
like I want that person, but that's actually not necessarily
what you're wanting because if you're just having sex and
you're just doing kink, you're just doing BDSM, that's a

(28:34):
very hyper restrictive environment. Once you start going out to
dinner meet my family.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Those are different. It changes the elements.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Yeah, that would be my two cents on that.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Honest, it was three cents five quarter a quarter. I
love that.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Because love can really feel like limit setting. Love can
feel like containment feel And that's why I think a
lot of people when you know, I've always been very
supportive of people you know, working with doms or playing
that out or experiencing it, because it's really about, hey,
i'd like this, and depending on what your arrangement is,
that person is like yes, yeah or no, or yes

(29:14):
or no or whatever the case may be. And I
think in normal sexual experiences, obviously consent is mandatory, sure,
but we often in hetero kind of more of vanilla
spaces or just thinking about consent being the only thing
you really ask for in terms of a sexual dynamic.
But in kink, it's just the lexicon is huge. You're

(29:35):
asking for more pressure, less pressure, you know, more intensity,
less intensity, this rope, texture, that rope.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
It's like there's more, there's more on the menu, and
that's a.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Really beautiful experience than what we get on the day
to day where there's typically not a lot of choice,
Like when you're having sex with someone with that ended
up practicing BDSM or kink, you're just kind of like
we're going into it, we're making you're sucking on me,
like whatever you figure like in this like more primal
flow is maybe how people describe that, and can GIVDM
is just very different.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
What you're saying makes me think, oh, right, in the
kink and b DSM, there's actually more of a roadway
to intimacy, and so that then be mistaken for romantic
feelings because it requires more conversations exactly, So that is
in itself intimate but then you, which is why I

(30:30):
love that you're saying, try it with another partner and
see if it's the kink itself or if it's the person. Yeah,
because you're getting an intimacy that that you're probably not
getting elsewhere, a safety that you're not getting elsewhere, which
then gets tripped up as a as romantic feelings is more.
Ain't that? Ain't that?

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Ain't that?

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Ain't that? Okay, all right, let's make a mess now. Okay,
So this is our this is our question that we're
going to dive into. So I'm in a long term
relationship where the love and spark are absolutely still there.
We adore each other, we laugh, we connect deeply, but
when it comes to sex, I sometimes worry about how

(31:11):
to keep it exciting as the years go by. My
messy question is how do you keep having great, adventurous
sex in a long term relationship when the love is
strong but routine starts to creep in. I'm very excited
to get into this with you.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Well, yeah, I'm excited to hear what you think about
it too. But you know, I was a full spectrum
dula for about fifteen years, so I worked with a
lot of couple.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
What is full spectrum duela.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
It means everything. It means fertility. We're working with folks postpartum,
We're working with folks. If they have a miscarriage, we're
working with them. They're having an abortion, We're working with
them across a full reproductive spectrum. Their lives got it. Yeah,
at least for me as someone who worked in women's health.
I think you could also say, you know, there's death doulas,

(31:54):
there's yes doulas. Essentially, dulas are people to drop in
and help you find your comfort zone and or find
your edge inside of whatever it is that you're experiencing
and help you find the right information to make better
choices and to not feel so isolated and alone. It's
not a clinical position. It's definitely psychosocial, emotional, educational, like
that's the zone of it. But when I would work

(32:15):
with clients over the years, regardless of what stages they're in,
especially people that have been together for a long time
in a long term partnership, routine really was a killer.
And not the fact that their sex wasn't routine, but
everything else that became so non negotiable for their existence.
Whether it's really great writer on Substack. Justinfino, I think,

(32:37):
talked a little bit about how like skin routines can
just interrupt intimacy because they're so long now and you
have all these steps. You know that these steps are
going on so many stats.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Yeah so, but our skin looks perfect, okay, does.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
But I think the thing that I feel very cognizant
of is, you know, once that limeracy phase has faded,
but early phase when you're just obsessed with the person
and you're thinking about them all the time, thinking about sex,
going out to dinner with them, lying in bed with them. Again,
very different to the question we were talking about before. You know,

(33:17):
just let's say you're not in a cank be tsession dynamic,
and I think routine can get in the way. But
there's this framework that I'm kind of working on at
the moment that just thinks through like possibilities of how
to break through the routine and maybe also understand why
the routine exists. Right. The first thing I've been thinking

(33:37):
a lot about when it comes to the routine and
why the routine is there is trying to figure out,
you know, are there three people in your bed and
by the third person, I mean resentment. And I think
that when you've been with someone for a really long
time and you are in love and there's not a
lot of obvious friction in the relationship you're fighting all

(33:58):
the time, there can be more like implosive ways to
create distance, which is you know, skincare, routine, jim, like,
all these different things that are quote unquote healthy for
you obviously can become kind of relational barriers, you know,
like I haven't done this yet, so I can't do
this with you yet, you know. And so I like

(34:18):
to always ask folks, you know, what are the things
that maybe haven't been dealt with that are just lingering
around and are creating negative space between you and your partner.
You can still be fully in love with someone and
having and I do think resentment really fucks with desire
and arousal. Resentments can come up from just you know,
maybe you're not in a regular date cycle, like you

(34:39):
don't do that enough, you're doing all of the caretaking,
and your partner is just like not as involved, right,
or there's in law issues. But I think sometimes we
play down resentments because they haven't become a full blown argument,
so it's just building up nice and quietly. And again,
like I said, it's like a throwing water on urgency,
the fire of urgency out. And then again just this

(35:02):
it can just be this bed partner that you're not
aware of. And so doing a little bit of inventory
on where there might be resentments I think is important.
Then the next thing I would say too, would just
be like, what's your environment like at home? You know,
I think oftentimes we're all super busy whatever it is
that we're doing, and it can be sometimes very hard

(35:24):
to keep the house the way that you need to
to be confusive.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
To suck listen.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Okay, Okay, great episode. So glad I was here for
real for.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Both of them. Can we Yeah, because let me do
a resentment and that environment. I think you're so onto something.
So my husband and I are in couples therapy, which
just in general, but we're talking about resentment, and we're
talking about not resentment in the current state of things,
but resentment that happened in the beginning of our relationship.
Because we've been together for ten year now, which is

(36:01):
really exciting and so wonderful, but there were tools that
we didn't have in the earlier stage of our relationship.
So to give context. When we both started dating, he
was a teacher and I was just an actor. Over
the course of our ten years, he's now a therapist.
I now am an educator of a podcast all this stuff.
So we have tools now to talk and navigate with

(36:22):
each other. But those first let's say, let's call it
five years, we didn't and nor did we have the
role models of how do you navigate a marriage, how
do you never get a gay marriage, how do you
navigate an interracial marriage? And so I think what we're
talking about in therapy is like what are the resentments
and needing to go back to identify because it does

(36:43):
it builds distance. And it's what I find interesting about
it is I think, based off of like media and
representation or even other couples, you thinkment means that you're
not talking to each other, or that you're mad at
each other, or that you don't love each other, or
that people are just slamming doors and slamming cabinets and
one slipping on the couch. It can get there, it
can get there. But what's interesting about this is that

(37:05):
there's not that's not happening. Like we love each other,
we enjoy each other, we have the best conversations, We're
very attached to one another, and yet there is this
this distance that can happen sexually or emotionally, and it's like, oh,
it's it's because of all these things that we put
away to keep moving forward. As our therapists just kind
of said, it's like you wanted to keep forging ahead

(37:28):
in the path of the relationship, so these moments came
up that you kind of boxed away that are now
you got to pay the bill at some point. Now
we're working on paying the bill. And I'm saying that
just for other folks who I think when we talk
about resentment our couples therapy, it becomes people wanting the
appearances that like everything is perfect and it's like every

(37:48):
relationship is complicated. Oh and then the other piece environment
I am and you know, jokingly, I'm a tourist and
so and is so important to me. But it really
does like we're better at sex outside of the home.
Take me to a hotel, girl, I'm a slut.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
A nice.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Period in that hotel. Bro Take me over seats, baby,
my hoole's wide open. You know, it's like gaing gaing, Okay,
put a fists in there, not actually, but you know,
for some reason. But at home where the routine is
taking place, it's really difficult. And I love what you're

(38:39):
saying about the fire on the urgency because you go
on with this person like it's we're fine, we love
each other, that it doesn't feel like it doesn't feel
uncomfortable per se, Whereas if we were if I was
in a household were were yelling all the time, that
would feel uncomfortable, and so it's like something has to
change here. But because we're still vibing and we're still

(39:00):
laughing at everything, it doesn't feel uncomfortable. So it feels like, oh,
we don't have to figure all these things out immediately.
So just yeah, I just wanted.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
To love all of that. That's exactly it. It doesn't
have to be an obvious symptom in the relationship that
signals resentment. But resentment one of its best qualities, and
I think one of its most challenging qualities is it's
really secretive. Yeah, like resentment it's so quiet, it's so private,
and it's so particular, and you're just kind of.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Like, that's my sentiment and you have a yes.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Sometimes that's the thing to your operating not again, because
we don't really talk a lot about resentment. We're not
really socialized to understand its mechanism.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah, what have you?

Speaker 2 (39:41):
So I love that you're expressing that you know you're
in love and all the things with your husband. But
then there's you know, there can be resentment, yes, And
then the environment piece I think is really important because
the house is this can be very emblematic of the
actual challenges. And so sometimes I'll say to fo, especially
when they were pregnant too, you know, keep like one

(40:04):
area of the house like pristine, like one area of
the house that you know that you can go relax in,
you can have sex in comfortable. It doesn't even have
to be the bedroom. If you had another bedroom, make
it that bedroom, or maybe it's the living room, just
one place that you just if you can't do your
whole house because you know, unfortunately I have OCD and

(40:24):
so the whole house is going down or I can't
function my insides or my outsides. But I think a
lot a lot of people actually identify with saying my
insides or my outsides like I have to have that correlation.
And if you're a person who's like my outsides or
my insides and your outsides do not match what you
need internally, that's actually gonna be It's gonna be an issue.
It's gonna be a sensory issue too. So if anyone

(40:45):
that has sensor read processing disorder or sense of processing issues,
it's gonna be challenging to come into the house and
the house is just like and then all these other
urgencies come up, you know, around like, oh doesn't I'll
clean that later. You just want to quiet that noise
by knowing there's one place in your home that that's
pristine and multipurposed. So yeah, verst is relational with resentments.

(41:10):
Second is environmental, like where is that one place that
gets to be okay for you? And then the third thing,
interestingly is really thinking, really trying to think very deeply
about trauma as you feel comfortable. Everybody has experienced some
kind of trauma, sure, but then I think also too,

(41:31):
it's you know, the psychological pieces. Also, if you had
been sexually assaulted at a younger age, you know, how
does that And there is no timeline on when that
type of experience has resolved, as you know, it could
have happened fifteen years ago and then all of a sudden,
for whatever reason, it's it's back, it's alive, it's here.
And if you're not talking about that because the partner

(41:53):
that you're with met you way after and it's just
never come up again. These are the small little things
just underneath the that could be creating that friction getting
to that level of intimacy. And then my last piece
is the goal. So the goal piece for me, I
think is so important because I can say this, you know,

(42:13):
just comfortably from my experience. I know that if I'm
having sex with my partner, I should not come first
because when I come, I'm I'm gone. I'm gone.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Okay, I'll say this. If I'm bottoming, if I come first,
it's a wrap. Yeah, sorry, it's just that's over.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
If I'm topping and I come first, I can get
back to it. It might take a second, but I
can get back to it. Yeah, it's a bottom, like
please get.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Yeah, because I have really intense orgasm, like they're just
like the whole world has ended. And then I wake
up type of orgasm, so I rebirth every time, every time,
and so and it's a lot of energy output. So
I know if I come first, then it's going to
be challenging for me to rally to start again. Sure,
so you know, it's been like a like a little

(43:06):
cheat code to start on the opposite end and then
get to me because I can hang out for a
long time, hang out, but don't don't don't start to
finish with me because then i'mpointed. But yes, but that's
what I mean about the goal piece too. It's like
that's not even something I really even realized about myself,
you know, until I was in a queer lesbian partnership,

(43:27):
and it's something that now I'm like more aware of.
And again it's just it's just helped support you know,
what is already a beautiful sex life, but just that
type of awareness, like I think between partners understanding what
We're not going to sit down with a piece of
paper over and be like, okay, what's real coal for
this time the world, It's going to be more just
what's really working with us with sex? Like, you know,

(43:50):
are you feeling like your needs are getting met? Like
what do you want more or less of? It can
be over dinner, it can be fun for play conversation,
you know, just to get an understanding are we both
move ben aligned? Especially for folks who are having penis
and vagina sex, I think that you know, there tends
to be a lot of swiftness on the penis side

(44:11):
and a lot of just you know, receptivity on the
vagina side, but the pacing is wrong, right, So it's
like going slower at the beginning for the person that
has the penis, like really just learning, negotiating, giving that
body you're moving into more time and space to just
acclimate to what and how you feel and how to

(44:32):
feel with that feeling inside of them. Just just slowing
things down. That can be really helpful. And then the
other piece too, in terms of goals, and maybe actually
this is a separate piece actually it should have come
before the goals is pain. Physical pain. You know a
lot of people that have vaginas have pain during intercourse,
and it's just an important thing to keep in mind.

(44:54):
I mean, one of the things that we would always
recommend for people that just had babies is you know,
take an ibuprofen maybe two to three hours before you're
going to have sex, you know, to manage some of
the discomfort that might be present, you know, in your vagina. Uh,
you know, after having a baby, and that could apply
to anyone. Some people who've never had children have you know, vaginismus,
which is really intense pain in the vagina upon penetration,
sometimes even without penetration. So I'm a big fan of

(45:17):
managing pain, whether it's through medication or you know, whatever
your choice of lubricant is, and then actual lubricant. Like
I'm a really obviously for folks in your body, with
your parts, that are having sex with other people with
your body in your parts. Luba is a friend, Luba
is Luba's family. Let's actually say.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Please get the spit. Yeah it is hot on foreign
but like.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Please, But you know, I think in heterodynamic in heterodynamics
also I think in you know, queer or lesbian dynamics,
you know, lube can be a little bit like oh,
like what do mean you loub Does it mean you're
not as into me? Or like what the case may be,
And it's actually not the case. I think we're so overstimulated,

(46:04):
there's so much going on, it can really interrupt that
arousal pathway. And so I'll give you a scenario. If
you have a volva and you want to have sex
with a person that has a penis, yes, or a
person who has their hands and uses it as a penis. Yeah,
And you know you want it, but for whatever reason,
you cannot get wet. It's just it's just not happening

(46:26):
on its own. But you know that you want it.
Pull in that loube the click click, click, click, squeeze,
whatever the case may be, and just let your partner
be inside you for a little bit, not moving intensely
or super vigorously, like just skinned to skin, smush, skin
to smash, skinned skin, smush, smush, and then just slowly,

(46:47):
you know, let you set the pace, let them set
the pace. Fine, within a few minutes, your natural body
will catch up. That is, unless you're menopausal. But for
anybody that is not, you know, in that stage of life,
that's a really nice way to just signal to the body, hey, yeah,
we can do it.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Is this what I hear from you in talking about, like,
you know, how do we keep great sex and long
term relationship is a lot of communication which people like
to deal. Yeah, because if we're talking about resentment, we're
talking about environment, we're talking about pain, we're talking about trauma,
we're talking about goals that requires an awareness of yourself

(47:27):
that requires the willingness to also express that to your
partner and vice versa. Where As I think that a
lot of times we approach sex as it should just
be happening, which we know is not happening. It's not
just happening happening, especially if we're going to be together

(47:50):
for ten, fifteen, twenty, thirty, forty years. Our bodies are
changing and evolving. That especially when you brought up a
sa if like something happened fifteen years ago for whatever reason,
it comes up now it's back, or as your body shifts,
now there's a new pain in your body. I think
our relationship to resentment is enrage or in somebody's betrayed us,

(48:11):
or there's anger, whereas resentment can just be this thing
that happens in we haven't asked for our needs. We
don't even know what our needs are, and so we
can't even ask for it. And so I'll say this
whenever my partner, either any of our partners, whether they
are the partners that I'm in relationship with or sexual partners,
whenever there's communication, it really turns me on, Like the

(48:32):
ability to just talk about the things, whether we're talking
about sex or other things. But just like the ability
to talk to each other and feel safe in that
immediately turns me on. This model that you're presenting of resentment, environment, trauma,
pain and goals is really a blueprint for talking and
I think that that is the key to keeping great

(48:55):
sex in a long term relationship.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
I completely agree. And you know what I will say
for all my non verbal people out there, I got you.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah, but there.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Are things that can happen within this working framework that
can be solow so you know, yeah, exactly like take
you can take take on the environment and make the
changes that you need to make sure that you're going
to feel comfortable, and you know, you can kind of
hedge your bets knowing what would make your partner feel comfortable.
We're talking about long term relationships here, and.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Would I would say it would start with you too, right, like.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
It would always start, so always has to start.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
And then you would be able to communicate. It's like
knowing what you're And I say this for myself. I
I want to hold your hand then say anything deep.
I just want to. But I've learned from myself that
I will oftentimes not bring things to my forefront. I'm

(49:48):
just quick to compartmentalize, and so resentments and things build.
But it's not even conscious. My therapist and we're talking
about it, she's like, I'll bring things to her like
months after it happened, and she's like, why didn't you
bring that up? And I was like, oh, and she's like,
I don't think you're intentionally doing that. But there's just
like a disconnect that happens for some of us, especially
those of us who are maybe in our childhood had

(50:10):
to just fix things, had to take care of things.
And so this model that you're bringing is really like,
how do you figure out what's going on in you?
How do you talk about what's going on with you?
And giving us pinpoints to start looking at it. Let's
look at what are your resentments and just like kind
of sitting that for a moment. Yeah, just like maybe
journaling about it, talking.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
About talking about it, or just even like you can
also just practice it out too in terms of like
the last you can practice it out too, in terms
of the last piece about the goal setting. It's like
it's important that you both come every time. It's important
that you come together. Okay, if one person comes and
then the next couple of times, you know, the other
like these are I just really want to let people

(50:50):
know that everything is a negotiation. Yeah, and you know,
not getting stuck is really kind of the end goal.
And in terms of sometimes adventure is actually just talking
about it, not even changing anything major, but just like
getting to voice it and you need to move through it,
you know, Yeah, as opposed to just this thing that

(51:11):
we're sold about sex, where it's just like it's biological
and you'll know how to do it and it's going
to be it's like sort of sort.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Of but like there's room for curiosity and there's room
for acknowledging that if you are an emotional being and
an evolving being, that like you're probably gonna check in
with yourself exactly, and then you can check in with
your partner based on what you've learned about yourself. Yeah.
I love this. Yeah, thank you so much. You're welcome.
Shall we do one last mess? Yes? Okay, Look, we're

(51:40):
going to ask you some speed round questions you can
answer in one word or a full sentence. Okay, but
it feels good. Okay. First question, which celebrity or fictional
character could ruin your life? And you'd say thank y'all.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
I would say bet for the l word.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Work.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Work, that'll work.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
What's your most controversial food opinion? I know you've got
a food opinion. Come on, come on.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
I share a food opinion with someone that you love, Cynthia,
I'm gonna say it. Garlic. Using too much garlic on
food is lazy. Sorry, Using too much garlic, especially raw
garlic and food is lazy. So my food take is
that using raw garlic, excessive amounts of raw garlic and
food is.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Lazy, lazy. It's lazy that my friends, and she's from overseas, okay, lazy.
What's your most irrational?

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Oh my gosh, I have so many.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
What's your favorite? Most irrational?

Speaker 2 (52:38):
It's another sensory thing, if you haven't picked up already,
the sensori. I hate anything that's like strawberry flavored, that's
synthetic strawberry flavored. Yeah, no, you're good here, I've looked.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
But you mean like those strawberry those strawberry just synthetic
strawberry smells.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
It can be for face products, it can be in
a lollipop, it can be in a candy chew like
that butter that Strawberry, Oh my god, like going into
bed bed is.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
Like you don't want it, you don't want it. Okay,
I got you. I used to. I'm like the Mango
body butter noneing one actually was good though.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
You still have but you still have they're so black, Okay,
because that's.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Like that that really was our thing.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
That actually had a great scent profile that I have
a very particular nose like that sim profile, no problem.
But as out.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
Yeah, Strawberking, you could come to sweet and you're like
almost weird.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
It was weird.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
I'm with you. WI show. Will you defend to the
grave even if it doesn't need defending?

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Pete Valley Grave, that grave, to the grave, to the grave.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
I do good.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
I can't wait for her to come back to love.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
What's the first song you'd play if you hijack the
oxchord right now?

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Tyler? Okay? That new is it song? Actually it would
be Tilt and then maybe hot Body a Star or
Lovely just my overseas girls.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Because of your culture, if you could whisper one messy
piece of advice into the world's ear, what would it be?
You deserve everything, so ask for it. That's beautiful. You
do deserve everything, so ask for it. I love that.
And last but not LEAs, what do you love most
about yourself?

Speaker 2 (54:29):
My brain?

Speaker 1 (54:30):
You have a wonderful I like my brain. You came
out here and get it's great.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
I like thinking and I like imagining stuff. Yeah, I'm
very My brain has always kept me comfortable and even
in the hardest times, like I could just go upstairs
and tinker.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
So it's beautiful in there. Yeah all right, well that's
the mess baby, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
I love you so much.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Fun.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Yes, well you know we are hose here, but hose
with heart. So before you part ways, let me speak

(55:16):
to yours yo. Erica is the smartest. I mean, hey,
our little squirrel so the smartest and the funniest. We
met at a Substack event actually a couple months ago,
over this summer I was doing. I was one of
the creators the invited to talk and Erica was attending

(55:39):
and I walked in and I saw this just beautiful,
dark skin batty sitting in the front row, and I
didn't say nothing because she looks so cool. And then
I was gonna sit in the back where one of
my friends was, but sub sec was like, no, no, no,
You've to sit up here in the front row. And
it was like right in front of Erica. And I
was like, all right, go I'm sit in front of
the batty okay. And I don't know. I was like, okay,

(56:01):
the Faddi's behind me, whatever it is. And then I
did my talk and we did the whole event, and
then after she was like about to leave, but then
she stopped me and was introduced herself, and she was like,
I was about to leave, but I felt like we
should talk, and so we started talking and it was
like it you know when some people you meet and
it's just an instant connection, It's like an instant click.
It was literally that we just like felt like we

(56:22):
were long lost siblings, like where have you? Like how
have I lived my whole life without you? Like how
have we not known each other? And immediately the voice
note started, the phone call started, the facetimes. The dinners
just to have been kind of inseparable. She's been supporting
me in hoh church and just like I love when

(56:44):
I say I love her brain, I love her brain.
I love her brain and her heart and her spirit
and her soul. It just felt and continues to feel
like family. So I'm so glad that we were finally
able to get her on the show. And by finally
I mean like literally, I mean it was literally girl,
when you come on the pods, you said absolutely, and

(57:04):
we we did the thing, which you can also if
you haven't watched on YouTube dot complex backs black slash,
period backslash or is that a forward slash? I still
don't know, Brandon k good. There were so many wonderful nuggets,
but the one that I just kind of want to
focus on is Erica's framework for you know, how do

(57:27):
we have better sex in long and in longer term relationships?
What is that framework? Resentment, environment, pain, trauma, and goal.
And I won't go I mean, you listen, so I
won't go too deep into I just kind of want
to repeat it and really highlight you know, that resentment

(57:48):
piece was really stand out for me. And I mean,
all the points are so important, but that resentment piece
really stood out for me because, as I said, you know,
we think about resentment as quiet rooting or or or
yelling or or or volatile, or at least I do.

(58:08):
And more importantly than it's conscious that like you're aware
of the resentment, but really expanding that definition of resentment
being like it's just things that it's so quiet. As
Erica said, it can be really secretive, and as I
pointed out, it can be something that's super unconscious you
don't even realize it. As I was expressing, you know,

(58:29):
the in forging forward and trying to keep the relationship
moving forward and continue to build your life with your
partner or your partners, you may not always say the thing,
or you may forget to say the thing, or you
may not even realize there's something to say. And so
in your solo work, in your in your in your
quiet individual work, asking are there any resentments here? What

(58:51):
have I not said? What have I been feeling? Where
do I have my own like little X that might
need to be brought to the to the surface. Of course,
you know, I relate to environment. I you know, I
was I was watching the draft, the video version of this,
the draft of it, and I'm sitting I'm staying in

(59:12):
New York right now, and I'm sitting in the couch
the place that I'm staying in on the couch next
to it is a little lamp, and the lamp shade
was slightly tilted, and it irked the fuck out of me.
I was like, oh no, no, I can't sit here with
the limp slightly tilted. It sounds a little bit like OCD.
But I had to like tilt it back. But you know,
all that to just kind of exemplify and it's a
mini version, but to exemplify that, like it is so

(59:35):
important to me that the space beak like tidy and organized,
and that I know where things are, Like my outsides
are my insides. My insides are my outsides, as Erica said,
and so like if my outsides aren't together, my insides
really are fucked up. Even at home, my husband can
tell you, like I have to like reorganize my desk,

(59:57):
can find time. I just have to, like things need
to be in their place and clean so that I
can actually hear what's going on in my head and
so I can imagine that. You know, if your environment
doesn't feel right, it can dampen the desire and the arousal.
Of course, also you know what is your physical pain
that's so important, and then your trauma. You know, trauma

(01:00:20):
evolves over time where things come up that we don't
even think about, and being able to have those conversations
about what is the trauma that's happening, you know, whether
it's physically but also emotional, and then of course the goal,
what is your goal? You know, I think it's really important.
Sometimes we go off of our social scripts. We go

(01:00:41):
off of what we've been told it should feel like,
or it should be like, or it should look like
what sex should be feel and look like. And it's like, no, no,
what do you want it to be? What is your
partner or your partners want it to be. And being
able to have that conversation, being able to say, hey,
what what turns you on? What do you what would
be your ideal or your divine orgasm? Or or how

(01:01:05):
do you like to come or when do you like
to come or any of those questions. You know, it's
a fantasy to feel like you should know your partner
inside and out. That is so romance novel. You know,
rom calm toxicity if you will. We're as humans. We
are living, breathing organisms that are always evolving and always

(01:01:28):
changing and always transforming. We are in a cycle of
life and death constantly, and so I think that a
great partnership understands that acknowledges that and so remains curious

(01:01:49):
and is always asking questions what has changed? What don't
I know? What has shifted? Is that thing that turns
you on back then still turn you on now? Is
that thing that you used to not like? Do you
maybe like it now? Like we are always evolving and
so making space to have conversations with our partner or

(01:02:09):
partners too, to stay in conversation about the curiosity. I
think Erica brought up a good point about how it
kind of the kink and BDSM world, there's there is
so much conversation about what, you know, what are we doing?
That goes beyond the mandatory consent. But it's like how

(01:02:30):
much what's the texture of the rope you like? What's
the level of pain you like? How hot do you
want this? How cold do you want this? You know,
there's it welcomes and invites that type of that type
of gentle interrogation and that type of conversation, And so
outside of kink and BDSM, I think that can you
bring some of that to that to those types of

(01:02:54):
sexual experiences you you and your partner might not be
into kink orbedsm, but can you take kind of a
rubric of curiosity and conversation and over communicate it. You know,
I love over communication. Okay, can you bring that into
your your your bedroom, your sexual space. Yeah? What what?

(01:03:19):
What about you?

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
What?

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
What did? What were your takeaways from this this episode?
You can email me at tell Me Something Messy at
gmail dot com. And I can't wait to hear from you.
You know, I love you so much. Thank you so
much for listening. Just a reminder that I'm doing my
live show ho Church in New York City October eighth,

(01:03:41):
November eighth, Tickets at Brandon Kyle Goodman dot com. I
don't forget to subscribe to my substack, Brandoncoguoman dot substack
dot com. We continue the conversations from here over there
if any subscriber. If you're a free subscriber, paid subscriber,
you get access to my live stream, which I do
every Monday night, Messy Mondays at Night. If you become
a paid subscriber, not only do you help support the

(01:04:03):
words that I love so much, but you get access
to essays, group chats and other fun lovely goodies. So
Brandoncogodman dot subsect dot com, don't forget to subscribe to
this podcast. We want to grow this into the biggest,
maddest pod out there, and your help is so needed
and so appreciate it, So subscribe and then share it

(01:04:25):
with a friend. Thank you, Thank you so much for
listening to Tell Me Something Messy. If you all enjoyed
the show, send me episode to someone else who might
like it. Tell Me Something Messy was executive produced by
Ali Perry, Gabrielle Collins and Yours truly. Our producer and
editor is Vince Dejohnny, and a special thank you to
Natalie Brandam who helps me organize and come up with

(01:04:47):
some of this mess tell Me Something Messy is proud
to be a part of the Outspoken Network from iHeart
podcast available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Y