That's How You Get A Squirtcicle w/ ER Fightmaster

Actor, musician and advocate ER Fightmaster shares an absolutely unforgettable Messy Story and some gems during Smash or Pass. Then, Brandon and ER explore what it means to be attracted to energy versus genitals, and non-binary sexuality during Messy Mail. 

Follow Brandon on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brandonkylegoodman Join the C'Heauxmunity at https://brandonkylegoodman.substack.com/ Submit your own messy story or question at [e-mail] or call ‪[phone]

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Break that down a little more energetic versus genital.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
If I'm dating a woman that mostly has dated men
and she is into energetics, she's having a very similar experience,
I'm still her boyfriend. Like that's really how I feel,
and it's just so apparent, like I'm always some woman's
dumb husband.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
You know what we do here destroy shame around sex
by talking about sex. Now, let me tell you something messy. Okay,
So you know I always tell y'all, don't look at
dick in its eye unless you want to get a
sty you know, don't look at dick iness eye unless
you want to ste because you know, I think I've
said this. You know, I had a friend who looked
a dick in the eye and they got les die.

(00:49):
And so ever since, I've learned don't look at it.
But I you know, sometimes you need to take your
own fucking advice. And I almost I almost fucked up, y'all.
I did so last weekend, I was with my partner.
We were hanging out and we were, you know, we
were stroking. We were having some good times. So I'm
laying on my back and he's on top of me,
and he's stroking and I swear to you, he's like

(01:12):
he's he's on an angle, so he's not like completely
straddled on me. He's like straddled on one leg and
he's angled. So if you're thinking about the dick, the
dick isn't looking directly at me. It's like over my shoulder,
maybe a little pass. Well if my eye is the
ninety degree, ooh, I don't like math like this. It's
that forty five degrees. Is that correct? Either way? Either way,

(01:33):
it's not directly at me. So I'm just marveling at
the dick, because you know, sometimes you see a dick
as beautiful as hard your partner's stroking, You're like, damn,
that's a beautiful dick, or that's a beautiful volver, and
that's a gorgeous ass, and you just want to marvel
at it. And that's what was happening. He was stroking it,
and I was just marveling. I was like, em, dick
is beautiful. It's gorgeous. It's so pretty. I want to

(01:55):
name it. I want to call it a name. I
want to pet it. It's so pretty. And so I'm
like I'm not thinking, hey, don't look it in the eye.
Like I'm not thinking, you know, you're gonna get a stye.
I'm just thinking, wow, such a pretty dick. And so
he's stroking and I'm stroking. And usually I can tell
when he's about to come one either he'll say it,

(02:15):
but like his face, you know, okay, everyone knows. You
know your partner. When that face goes a little shifty,
the eyes go a little to the left, a little
to the right at the same time, not looking at
the same place at the same time, you know something
about to happen. So usually I'm able to uh pre
empt the come so that I can protect my eyes.
But I was not focusing on his face. I was

(02:38):
focusing on that dick. And so suddenly all I hear
is whoosh, and my eyes immediately close. I was like
close the eyes reflexes, it down like like power Rangel reflexes.
Bitch closed, okay, Mortal Kombat closed. And sure enough that
whoosh was the sound of his his com It was

(03:01):
like it was it wooshed by me because it's on
that forty five angle, so wooshed by me like by
my ear and hit the wall. But as it wooshed
by me, a little goop got on my eyelash, and
I saw that thing coming at me, which is why

(03:23):
coming at me. I saw the cum coming at me,
and that's why I closed my eye because I did
not want to get the side. But I was so
close to getting the side. But yes, it wooshed by me.
I got a stray, a little bit of that goop.
Is that what she calls a goop, Gwyneth? Is that
why she calls a goop?

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Because she sat about come?

Speaker 1 (03:38):
No, no, no, Why does she call it goop? Is
that her nickname? Anyways? This for us, goop means a
little bit of a little bit of the sticky icky,
just like hit my eyelash. And they kept going and I,
you know, we were both in shock, more so med
than him because I famously I told you I don't
I don't shoot massive loads like that. Like I give

(04:00):
you a nice little you know, on a good day.
On a good day, I might give you a little distance.
On a good day, I might give you a little
fifty meters distance. I don't even know what math is,
but you know what I'm saying, Like the fifty yard line.
I might give you that on a good day. But
most of the time, you know, it's just a little
it's oh, it's a little it's a little drizzle, you know,

(04:22):
But my partner, it's a torrential downpour. And it has distance,
it's it's it has velocity. Wow, I'm using I'm literally
digging up so many mathematical and scientific words from ninth grade. Okay,
it has velocity, okay. And so like literally the wind,
the gust that that come flew by me was jarring

(04:46):
and shocking, and so we like, you know, we wiped
you know, I wiped my face off. But I'm nervous
that a little bit that goop got into my eye
and my eye is twitching, the left eye is twitching,
just a touch, just touch. And I was certain that
I closed it in time, but you know, I wasn't
sure for like a little bit. This is way too much,
too many details, but I'm gonna give you anyway, A

(05:07):
little bit of that goop was on the eyelash, and
was afraid maybe a little bit of that goop dripped
in from the eyelash into the eye. So I immediately grabbed
some eye drops and then I got a little bit
of water in my hand. I cleaned out my eye
and I tried to play cool because I was trying
to be sexy. I was trying to be I wasn't
trying to be like motherfucker. Because also I had to

(05:28):
be a camera the next day because I had to
do the E show, the recap of the Grammy, so
I had to be on camera the next day. And
I if I if I got a sty or if
my if I got pink eye from come in my eye,
Like what was I gonna say? Ahrner came in my eye,
and I was so enamored by the dick I didn't
look away, and like I could, I it was just
too stressful. It's too stressful, So I put the eye

(05:49):
drops in and you know, me and and Bunn are
cuddling and whatnot, and I'm trying to just like stay
calm and breathe. But I am afraid I'm gonna wake
up with just a puffy eye. But luckily I woke
up and everything was fine, thank goodness. So I did
not get the sty. But I just want to remind
you to take my advice. Heed my warning. Don't look
at dick in his eye unless you want to get

(06:10):
a sty, even if the dick is on a forty
five degree angle. It's too it's too far, like it
needs to be fully uh one eighty away. Nope, it
needs to be it needs to be ninety degrees the
other way completely, it needs to be. You need to
be behind it. Okay, you need to be behind If
you are not behind the dick, you don't know what

(06:31):
the winds can do. Because at forty five, I'm swear
to you it was off an angle. But when it
shot and the velocity with which it shot and the
wind must have just you know, threw it back towards
the ninety it was a it was a lot. It
was it was a lot. By the way, welcome to
the show. This is tell me something messy. I'm your host,
Brandon Cogoban. Some people call me messy mom, but you

(06:53):
could call me Velocity goop. Ooh, that's actually a dope
ass dragon name Velocity group or welcome to this Velocity goop.
Wait wait I'm cooking. Wait wait I'm cooking.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Wait wait I'm cooking.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
I hate that. Okay, I hate that up. Okay, okay.
By the way, if you are having a time here,
if you enjoy being here, do me a favor, do
us a favor. We are in the middle of really
trying to continue to grow the show and build this show.
And what helps is if you rate, review and subscribe,
so you can rate the show, give us the five stars.
You can review the show, just say I love it, baby.

(07:29):
You can subscribe to the show so that you never
miss out on an episode. It helps. It helps. And
of course sharing the show, posting about it on your
social which I see y'all doing, Thank you so much,
sending it to somebody, whether it's your partner or your
friends who you think would enjoy it. Just all of it,
all of it helps. And I'm just so grateful for you,
grateful that you're here a week after week, Grateful for
all of you who are new here. If this is

(07:51):
your first episode, what a wild way to enter into
this episode. But I'm happy you're here, and I just
I'm so grateful for all of you. So thank you,
thank you, thank you. Baby. You know what that means.
It is time for a guest And while they get situated,
I have some fabulous news to tell you. Our podcast
told me something MESSI has been nominated for a Queerity Award.

(08:14):
If you don't know what that is, it is exactly
what you think it is. It is an award that
celebrates all things queer, and we are alongside some incredible
and incredible incredible queer podcasts. So you can vote every
day from now until February twenty fifth, and I hope
you do so that we can win our little award. Period.
We'll put the link in the show notes. Okay, so again,

(08:36):
you can vote every day from now until February twenty
fifth to help tell me something messy when its first award.
Oh my god, I'm so excited. Okay, now, let us
do our hoe manifest stow repeat after me aloud or
in your head. Grant me the serenity to unpack my shame,
the courage to heal, the wisdom to that sex is
not just about penetration, The audacity to advocate for my

(08:59):
pleasure and boundaries. The strength to not call my ex
that fuck boy, fuck girl, or fuck bay, for it
is better to masturbate by myself in peace than to
let someone play in my motherfucking face. Let the community say,
oh helujah, I am so excited to have Er fight
Master on the show. Er fight Master is a non

(09:22):
binary actor, writer, comedian, musician, and LGBTQ plus advocate. Their
solo music venture, fight Master blends elements of alternative rock
and indie folk, pulling influences from greats like Fleetwood, Mac,
The Runaways, and Todd Rugren. They currently have two EPs
available for streaming, Violence and Bloodshed Baby. With lyrics that

(09:45):
playfully comment on concepts like toxic masculinity, mental health, and love.
Fight Master finds the perfect balance between edgy and energetic,
but also sensual and tender. Their acting work includes two
seasons on both Hulu's and ABC's Gray's Anatomy, and most recently,
they served as a writer on Michelle Bhuteau's Netflix survival

(10:07):
of the Thickest Ah We Love It Er goes By.
They them pronouns, y'all please help me, Welcome Eer, fight Mastery. Hello,
how are you?

Speaker 2 (10:20):
I'm great?

Speaker 1 (10:20):
How are you I'm doing well? Before you get started off,
we'll give you these messy mandates and then we can
like go into the full key chaing. Okay, well, okay,
so things get to be on processed. Any thoughts or
opinions shared have the right to evolve, shift, or change today, tomorrow,
ten years from now, and if during the Kiki something
feels too personal or unintentionally offends, we use the safe
word foosball, which gives us the chance to pause, pivot,

(10:42):
and address accordingly.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
That's so nice, yeah, right, which is like.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
A little framework because we'll be talking messy shit and
I like to make sure everyone feels safe while we
do it.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
I love that you said the thing about your your
opinion in reviews on these things can change today or
in ten years. Yeah, I was just talking to I
went to a fan convention in London. Yeah, and I
am like still thinking about an answer to a question
where literally the next day I felt differently. Ah. They
were like, what are you, like, what are you consuming
right now basically in order to be an artist? And

(11:13):
I was like, I'm not consuming anything right now because
I feel like I want to be I want to
really be like tuning in with me.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yes, I get that.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
And then the very next day I was reading a
friend's script and I was like, I feeling so I
feel so like inspired by consuming this art. And I
had just told these kids like, if you really want
to get in touch with you, like, take a break
from all. Literally the next day it was different, and
I'm sorry I lied.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
It's not a lie. I feel like it's like ebbs
and flows, and like some days we're this way and
the next day were another way, and I feel like
we This is why I made that rule because I
used to teach. I was to be fancy. I was
an adjunct professor I Want You for like a year.
So I was teaching sing the freshman and it was
a self scripting class, so they would like write. I

(12:04):
would have them journal at the top of the class
and they would create pieces based off of, you know,
lived experiences. But a lot of them were afraid to journal,
and I discovered it was because they were afraid of
their opinions changing and being held to what they had written.
And it was like, oh, I get that, Like it's
scary to write something down because you don't want somebody
to look at it in twenty years and be like

(12:25):
you said it. And so it's like we're humans. We're
allowed to say shit and change our mind and evolve,
and that is what the show's about.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
I mean, I do get it because I I was like,
I had a mandatory journal when I was a kid. Yeah,
and for like a school projector Okay, and now I'm
absolutely humiliated by it and so your class was right.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Right, that's the techaway, do not journal? Shall we play
a lube breaker?

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Okay, beautiful. So we're going to play a game called
spatial Paths. Have you ever heard it?

Speaker 2 (12:59):
I made it up myself, that's impossible, and invented this.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
I invented this game. Okay, smash or pass? Sex in
the woods?

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Are we inside like a cabin?

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Oh? Interesting? Maybe I get I guess. I mean I
see it as like in the wilderness. That's how I
pitch it.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
No, and.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
They don't even say.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Like past, no, no, no here. But here's why. I
just I don't know. I just I just.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
It's a pass for me. You're safe, Okay, yeah, this
is face go ahead. I famously do not fun with nature.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
That's it. Like, I actually fuck with nature really hard.
But I think that the horny part about fucking. I
go on a lot of trips with my girlfriendly go
to like the woods. We spend time in the woods,
and then we go ravage each other in a cabin.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
And a cabin you said, I like the four walls,
like the roof.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
I do like I like that.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Like the rug, I like the central air, I like
god gave us. We built that, I might as well
use that.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, And to be fair, do you want to like
deer fucking in your cabin?

Speaker 1 (14:03):
I don't know, don't there? Yeah, that's two. They're not
in my home? Fucking Am I in their home? To that?
You like, don't fuck in the ocean either, right, Like
that's their.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
Home if you are fucking in the ocean.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
God bless. I don't like fuking in the shower.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
No, thank you for saying that. Being that gas lit? Absolutely,
do you want the water to take away all the
lube and then you want to and you want.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
To slip and falling? TV shows and movies where people
I haven't hot sex.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
In the shower. No, No, I'm trying.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
To be here by myself. Leave me alone.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
And even even the railing in the shower is like
reminiscent of some kind of like life alert. There's something
sexy about this.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
I don't find it sexy at all.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
I don't there's a pube down here.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
No, you're like, this is a lead. I'm with you there, Listen.
There's an exception to every rule. But I I once
you start like like we can get sexy in the shower,
show together. We watch each other now, but once we
start fucking, it's like the water. It's like the water
is getting in your face, it's getting in my mouth,
it's wiping off the loop.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
No, my hair is starting to look stupid.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
We are looking crazy in this. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
And also sorry, most of the time, only one of
you is in the waters, like one of.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
You is like shivering.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah yeah, yeah, it's it's so silly. And I'm not watching.
I don't watch anything. I've had enough sex in my
life now that when I watch movies and they start
to fucking the shower and I know we're supposed to
be like checking out. Oh hell yeah, I'm started like,
oh my god, it's so silly. Just move to the bed,
Just go to the bed. God.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah, it's the bathroom in the bedroom.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
My guess is it's same room.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Like literally it's a couple of feet away. Come on,
I'm with you, okay. This one is smash your pass
ass cheek biting mmm.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
If that ass looking like it need a bite, it
has to be bited. So that's a smash for me.
My I I don't know if you know this about me.
I got I literally was thinking about a but cheek
and I got hot enough to take this off. I'm
so I'm so into I can't like to ask.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
I am so talk about ass for a moment. Are listening, Yeah,
please please take your time. You do that and I
will begin the conversession. There are so many people out
here who love ass, and this is let's call this

(16:36):
the ass corner where we can just like marvel about
what is it about ass that like really speaks to you,
thinks to your soul.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
It's it's perfect. It's just a perfect little treat.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, and you can rest your head on it. My
oh my god. I love laying on.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Ass and as like someone like I did you know there?
I love a beautiful aesthetic experience, and I think that
someone was like a perfect little bubble. Ass is like
God's specific gift to me. God said, you are a
little treat. I love it. I I I There are

(17:16):
so many fights I can with my partner where I
I'm like, you know this, I swear to God and
then she like turns around to walk away. Hey, I'm sorry,
I was really.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Such a I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, whoa, whoa, calm down. She was dumping away in
her little butt.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
She just like, my bad, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
I'm sorry you lost my belonging. Yeah, that's real, t ass.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Really, when I see my boyfriend's ass or my husband's ass,
I really it calms me down. It's like a it's
like a little teddy, a little safety blanket, just like, yeah,
I like how it jiggles.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
I've famously been working on my ass because I famously
had the smaller ass of my friend.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Group. Your whole bodies beautiful, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
I've been I've been eating and squatting and stair stepper ring.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, is that the secret?

Speaker 1 (18:21):
The secret is a stair supper that'll do everything. The squats,
but like the stair stepper, it sucks. But like all
that climbing is really what builds the incline. That's what
I've learned. Even the treadmill. You can treadmill incline.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
I my friend told me recently, and I think it's
the truest thing that's ever been said. He told me
I have an eighties ass and seventies tits, and I
what does that mean? We were literally talking about Playboy
And actually, because I've been gifted without asking, I've been
gifted a lot of playboys.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Wow, and what do you think that's about? I have
some of the questions.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
I think people are just like, you're you're a dumb
like slut. Four women, you're gonna love this. And I
was looking at these like these they're all from like
the seventies and eighties, and frankly, like there, I knew
exactly what he meant when he said, I'm not like
a big asked person, but I've got it like a

(19:17):
cute little eighties and it's never gonna change in size.
It's I played volleyball, I played basketball, I played college ball,
but never changed. But it always he's there. Yeah, and
the and the titties are just absolutely serving seventies, like
they're just like I can't expland it. There are tits
and there are jugs, and then there's I'm giving you

(19:38):
a mug. Okay, got it? And I am looking for
the very opposite of my bill.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Got it?

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Okay, I don't want it at all. Yeah, I like
I like a little titty and a big bad ass.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Wow. Yeah, Okay, I love it. I love it. This
is so I feel so Uh. I was gonna say
I feel so, but but I just feel I feel
understood in ways, or I feel like I understand you better.
I don't know. My heart is really open and the
moment I want that on a T shirt. By the way,

(20:13):
you won the game, you won, you win. We don't
have money here, but you win my unconditional love and
I do love you. Wait, you brought me a book.
Do you want to tell me about the book that
you brought me?

Speaker 2 (20:22):
So I've been bringing this to queer people that I
think are making a difference and are responsible for making
a difference. And this book is called The Communism of
Love and it's by Richard gilman Opalski, who I just
absolutely love. He's like an anarcho communist writer. And here
you go. And I think it's just our responsibility as

(20:45):
queer public figures and thinkers to be responsible for imagining
a new future for our community and for each other.
And this, this mode of being that we're currently in
is not working. And even the motive being of and
I'll say this now a post vote, because it was
not I did not want to be negative before the vote. Yeah,

(21:07):
even the mode of being of like just go vote
like no, Actually, the system is broken beyond the vote. Yes,
and there's so much work that we have to do,
and I know that can be really overwhelming, and that's
why I'm like constantly trying to take in information about
almost like about like queer utopia. Yeah, and people will
check out of talking about utopia because they're like, but

(21:28):
that will never happen. It's not sure we're never gonna
have utopia. But we can push the boundaries of our minds,
uh huh, so that we can synthesize ideas and then
bring them to our community and say, what about this.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
I A this is you are a gift from God, honestly,
and you know, to me, God is a beautiful black
trans woman. Because I was thinking yesterday, I was, you know,
you know how a lot of our approaches are outdated
or need to be updated, and it's like, well, what
does that look like? Because if we you know, I
was saying that now that the vote has happened, there

(22:02):
is a sense of relief because I'm no longer bracing
for it. The worst quote unquote can get worse, but
like the worst that we were bracing for has happened,
and so now my brain goes, well, what are the
what are the solutions? And I don't actually think we
have them already. I think that, like I've been saying,
like I feel like I need to like travel and
read and go talk to other societies, other civilizations, other cultures,

(22:25):
and like what do y'all do, because it's like I
don't know if we have I want to say this respectfully,
but it's just like what we think we should be
doing to make a better change is not happening. The
soil is bad.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
It is bad. And the favorite thing that I've read recently,
and this was in a a book called The Solutions
Are Already Here by this Dutch writer, and he is
he's writing about the environment, and he is saying, you know,
we are more trained to be able to think about
the end of the world, yeah, than the end of capitalists.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
We are literally like I guess the world's gonna end
because we just can't get out of this capitalist system. Baby,
we are the capitalist system. And so I think even
this like call to vote, of course, you know, I
wanted kamalots win. That is what I wanted. If we
are choosing between these two, I wanted Kamaloatin. I think
that there would have been something really powerful, especially about

(23:21):
having a black woman in that shair. And I'm sorry,
but we're voting inside of an electoral that the electoral
system is not working. This is not a vote per person, right,
and so if we want it to be a democracy,
we have to do a vote per person. I don't
care that Montana has four hundred people in it. Montana

(23:42):
should not. And I know they're like, well that's why
Montana has four in California has fifty. No, no, no,
no no. I want everyone to have a vote. I
want everyone to have a vote, and right now we don't.
And so telling people to vote in a system that
is rigged for the Republicans is is an opiate? Yeah,
And then when your vote doesn't work, you're like, oh man,

(24:04):
the system maybe it is broke. Yeah, and who's supposed
to fix it. We have this idea of like us
versus them. It's like, well, they they've broken the system.
The system is so bad. The system is people. Yeah,
that's us. We went to school with these fuckers. I
just saw fucking Ted Cruise in real life. He's the
ugliest little worm bitch from your high school. You know.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
Rob DeSantis was a history teacher at my high school.
In my freshman year, not crazy. He was like in
my dorms. And then when I saw when I saw
that Ron whatever, Roy whatever, when I saw that what
was happening in Florida, and my one of my high
school besties messaged me, She's like, did you see. I
was like, that's the same crazy, crazy, crazy crazy.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
The meanest weirdo, the meanest bad guy from your is
now like deciding what you do with your ovaries and
all the shit, And I don't know that, to me,
is not a system that's working. No, you're right, Ted
Cruise is the joke of the nation and he's still
the representative of Texas.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
Again, well that's what I'm you know. And that's what
I had said just in general about the election itself,
which was even just having to choose between these two
tells me everything I need to know about the country
that we're in. The fact that this guy has the
second chance tells me everything. And like like Kamala deserved
to be up against somebody that was an equal, you know.

(25:19):
It was like, Oh, it's like, oh, I want to
get into the nitty gritty of what our country needs,
but right now I'm just choosing between like a the
racist and the not racist, and it's like that's not enough,
Like racism is bad. But but you know what it
made me think about because we saw each other when
we were striking. I think shortly before you and I
saw each other, there was a video that came out

(25:40):
with one of the studio heads who was like, the
writers were asking for too much, and it hit me.
I was like, Oh, this actually isn't about right or wrong.
If you're looking at right or wrong. Yeah, the writers, workers,
people deserve more money, that's right, But this is about power.
And so I feel I'm feeling that way about the
country as well. It's like, oh, it's not about who's

(26:01):
right or wrong the Kamala and Donald platforms. It's clear
who's right and who's wrong. But this is about power
and greed and ownership, and that's what people are voting for.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Well, I think you're going to like this book because also,
you know, I think that this book informed a lot
of my thoughts about like, Okay, what could we you know,
change And there are aspects of this book that really
talk about the responsibility we need to put back on
community and not community as in like on a Target
T shirt. Yeah, community as as. The example I gave
a friend today was I might not be able to

(26:33):
convince a Republican at large that disability rights matter. Sure,
but if I live next to a Republican and every
day we wave to each other and my kids in
a wheelchair, he might actually be like, you know what,
fuck yeah, I do. That is where I want my
text tests to go. And that's small community, right. We
are getting people on a one by one basis. People

(26:53):
be like, why do you know I think we I'll say,
we don't have to have empathy for everybody, and I'm
sure in having empathy from my mom. My mom ended
up voting for gay rights. And I was like, that's
a one on one.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
It's the one on one, it's the dinner table conversations.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
So like it's the people need to see a human
and that's what I and I'm sure you can talk
about this. I'm selling my husband. When you're dealing with
public figures, it shocks me. I'll tell you the story.
My cousin yesterday, who I don't talk to, never talk to.
My cousin messages me. I respond back and then he says, well,
you do an Instagram live with me? And I was like,
honeyw hi, how are you. How have you been? And

(27:30):
You're like, oh, I'm not being seen as a person.
Another friend of mine, one of my best friends who's
also in the industry, I went to a funeral with
them and after the funeral they were burying their mother,
people ask for selfies with them. She's like, Oh, you're
not seeing us as human. And so it's interesting when
we think about social media and these big platforms, like, oh,

(27:52):
people aren't seeing anyone as human. So that's really not
going to shift the narrative. The celebrity that says vote
for it is not really gonna shift it as much
as the dinner table conversations people who actually do see
you as a person. So it's like the small community
you're so right, is I think where real change will happen.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
And I think I think black folks and quick folks
know this like best is. There's nothing more threatening to
the government than small communities, which.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Is why they're trying to bring it up.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
They do it all the time. It's like it's so
you know, using Portland as an example, and I could
think it was the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties, there
was this thriving street in Portland where like a bunch
of black folks lived and they were able to there
was this massive business business exchange. Yeah and so, and
because you could walk everywhere, it's like four blocks.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
And what the government did, and this is all written down.
This was a city plan and so you can research this.
What the government did is they came in and they
were like, no.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
This is the same as total maskers are different.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Different. This is in Portland, Oregon, Oh Okay. And so
the government comes in and they're like, how do we
break this up? And what they do is they put
a cement block in the middle of the road and
they create like basically a mile long one way. And
so instead of being able to go get your groceries
over here and then go to your barbershop and then
go to your bookstore and across the street back and forth,
you go to your barbershop and then you have to
get back in your car. You drive up up yep.

(29:13):
And then they ended up when people were like, fuck,
this sucks, but they were still like, you know what,
we'll drive up and around. Yeah, they plucked up all
the trees. And then when plucking up the trees was
not enough to get people to move. They built a
highway over the neighborhood. And it's because well, of course,
we can listen to these stories and be like, oh
my god, that's horrific. See the whole system's broken. Or
you can say, if a government is spending that much

(29:33):
money to destroy four blocks, then small community is the answer.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, that's fucking tea. That's fucking tea.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
I hope you like it.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
I can't wait. I can't wait. Okay, think you're for
having that conversation with me, because these conversations are hard
to have and it's like unclear where to start with
them and who to like have them with, because you know,
we're all I think a lot of us are in
our communities where were feeling the same. Yeah, but it's

(30:02):
still I remember at the end of these conversations how
important it is to not hold these things in, but
to like commune and to yeah, like the hope comes
back in. You want to tell me something messy.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
I want to tell you something messy please. So I
was just in prepping for this today, I was like
I could not think of anything that It was like,
this is responsible for me to share and by accident,
I ended up telling my friend this story over coffe
and I was like, this is it. Yes, When I
was twenty years old, I was in Chicago and I

(30:42):
was going to therapy, and I had spent all of
my like high school, grade school, all these days feeling
like a really ugly kid, just feeling so hideous. And
I think it was because I didn't know I was gay,
and everyone somehow knew I was gay without knowing I
was gay, and so I just was not attracted to
attractive to any of these people I was growing up with,

(31:03):
and I felt I was like, I'm gonna die ugly
like this, I'm gonna die unlovably ugly, unlovably loveably hideous,
like just hideous to everyone in Ohio and I go
to I moved to Chicago, and immediately people were like,
You're the opposite of ugly.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
I was like, what's this, what's happening? What do I
do with this?

Speaker 2 (31:25):
What is this? I just was like, I just was
such a slut. I was like, we gotta gotta make
up the last time, and so I went. I was
also in therapy at the time, trying to be responsible,
and I was having this feeling of being like I
really can't. It seems like right now I can have

(31:46):
sex with whoever. I like, point my finger at yes,
can I do it with my therapist? And so I
and I told her this. I told her like a
version of this. I was like, I'm having like a
weird kind of crisis of self. I'm like, I went
from having no value at all in this space to

(32:09):
now this is like it feels like it's the first
thing people are valuing me for. Yeah, And I feel
that I'll get confused and I'm not really understanding boundaries,
and like i think because I'm not attuned to getting
that kind of attention, I'm I'm having a hard time
reading it. So and everyone's thinking I'm flirting and I
always then yeah, and she's like talking me through this,
and you know, it's just like whatever. And then at

(32:29):
the end of the session, I was like, anyway, do
you want to come to one of my shows. She's
she's like twelve years older than me, married, mother of
two toddlers, married to a man, married to a man,
mother of two. There the whole I've commented on their family,
like I've been like, oh my god, they're so cute.

(32:51):
And she's like oh there. You know we've had and
I was like, so we have that session, and I'm like,
do you want to come to my show? And she's
like yes, And so I mean, I'm drunk with power.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
You're powerful. I'm drunk. Oh my god. Especially if your
therapist says yes, I'll come to your show. I think
all of all I want is my therapist's approval, Like
that is everything.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Like I think about my therapist as much as I
think about my mom.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah, yeah, therapist is like is a second mom and
so many ways.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yes, And she comes to the show. I can see
in the audience because I've invited women to shows. Yeah,
I can see in the audience that she's having a
very like horny experience. And so afterwards I come and
she's looking at me in like a different way.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Afterwards, we go out to a bar. We are doing
straight up, we are doing Irish car bombs. Oh no,
because because we're in Chicago and I'm twenty, and this
bar lets me in because I'm like a good commedity
and so we're just over there, me and my fucking
you know, thirty two year.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Old therapist having Irish car moms getting so wasted unbelievably so.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
And this we're sitting in the back and she's like
telling me about her life and in this wistful way
that that straight woman do when you get them away
from their husbands.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
And this guy comes in the bar and he's like
obviously not down to hang yeah, And he comes to
the bar and he's looking around and he sees her
and he comes and he just marches right towards her,
and he's like, what are you doing here?

Speaker 1 (34:25):
What is this?

Speaker 2 (34:26):
What's going on? Like just like this, I'm like, we're
having fun. There's fucking like a low tone.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Oh my god? What is that low tone in a
bar that's terrified? In front of enchiladas and harsh car bombs?
I'm terrified.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Well, and then when someone is like speaking to you
like that, then I'm like looking at her and her
eyes are putting in two different.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
The cartoon it's like, and he's.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Looking at like a twenty year old yeah, And and
I guess that he knows that she's I think what
happened is he like looked up my show. I went
to the theater and then was like where do people
hang out? Like had to find her?

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (35:05):
And then came to the bar and got her and
we just never talked again.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
You never saw no like, what do you mean like
for nexic appointment? Didn't did you get ghosts to.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
My your dervis? We? I think we just both knew
she would text me every week to be like what day.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Works and that, and then you never got that text.
Wow you're a king?

Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah? And I do you think about her?

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Off?

Speaker 2 (35:45):
I would I think about her because I think about
how you know, you're like a twenty year old soo
you're like, I'm not responsible for anything, and now as
an adult, I'm like Jesus, that poor thing. Yeah, her
and her and her poor husband they had two kids
together and.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
And he's searching for her in bars. She's hanging out
with her client and she's hanging and she's hanging out. God. Yeah,
I would also have that touch tone what are you
doing it?

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Like?

Speaker 1 (36:15):
What is this? What are you doing this? Oh my god?
That is a delicious story. Thank you so much, thank you. Wow. Okay, y'all,
if you have your own messy stories, you can email
them to tell me something messy at gmail dot com.
Shall we do some messy mail? Time for messy mail?

(36:36):
Let's do it. Okay. As always, your submissions will remain anonymous.
This first one says squirtsicles a new term. I have
coined a summer or all seasons cold snack Buckle up, babe,
I squirt into a bowl with the help of a partner,
pour my juices into popsicle mold, and make a kinky
cold snackles. Okay, this school, Oh my god, the squortsicle

(37:03):
is really making this a term is used for playing
in holes, eating and all the pleasures. Okay, how are
you feeling? Would you have a sportsicle? Would you make
a sport school? And would you eat a sportsicol? Very
two different things? You are stressed?

Speaker 2 (37:20):
Well, I'm really trying to drop in.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Yeah, try to get grounded in this, trying to lean in.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
I will say I would not make one myself.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Uh huh? Would you help somebody make one?

Speaker 2 (37:32):
If it? I guess. But the truth is most of
the time, if it really turns you on, it will
start to turn me on.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
I'm the same way. I'm turned on by my partner's pleasure.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
And if this was really something that they wanted to do,
then I would do it.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, but for yourself, Like I don't know, if I
could like come into.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
A popsicle, I'm not gonna be doing that.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Clear me.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
I will be doing that, but for you and I
will I would be eating that.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
You would eat it.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
I would eat it if because if somebody else and I.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
My partners comes to cale I swallow your love, might
as well put it in a front sheet with some fruit.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
That's how I feel. I I identify very strongly as
the liquid King of the Midwest, and.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
The liquid King of the Midwest.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah see, I'm gonna be I add some sweat, you know,
add some fuck. I guess it's just the process where
I'm like whoa, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Yeah, it's a process.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Okay, freezing. It seems freezing.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
But I mean, I guess for like a later tree.
I just I just ge't. Like I used to love
making popsicles as a kid. My brain is like short
circuit and I'm like, wait, those molds are for like
a tasty afternoon snack. And now you're like, no, I
can like come in there, put some fruit.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Juice, yo, Yeah, I know what it would taste good in.
Tell me martini shaken. It's a squirty martini.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Okay, you gotta go. I got there. Okay, This one says,
finally completed my year's long dream of sucking my husband
off while he watched his Yankees on TV at home.
Had you I love like the first time? Oh my goodness,

(39:20):
I can tell you the story. I remember one of
my first I don't want say my first partners, but
it was the first time I met this partner and
he was playing video games and then I made him
turn on Scandal because I love course, so it's like
turn that off, put on Scandal, but I started giving.
I would go over there and I'd give him head
while would play video games or watch TV.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
I have looked up that porn that is so hot.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
It's so hot, right, I love like you go watch
your show, watch your game. I'ma just fucking b down
here doing my thing.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
Well, it comes in two parts for me, Yes, I
think people some people get nervous. Yeah, when like the
attentions focused on them, so you give them like a
little bit of an activity, and then I genuinely like
what I'm doing. So then I am like, I'm giving
you something that you can pretend to focus on. I

(40:13):
can have this experience, and that's that's how I phrase it.
That's like you do your I'm gonna be down here
doing exactly what I want.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
This is what I want to do.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
That is very well what we want. Yeah, and then
there's kind of a domb thing of being of them
and like I'm so disinterested. Yes, and do you little rat,
you fucking.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Subah, take this? And I think I like the challenge
of of course, of course this is gonna be so
good to you in a moment.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
You think I'm a rat now I'm at now rat king,
I'm the rat king up the Midwest. Yeah. Yeah, I
think that if they actually were like we're like genuinely
watching their show and never include in, Yeah, I think
I would be.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
Like like, Okay, that's hard to do. Oh, I gotta
go watch some YouTube videos and figure it out. You noticed, Scott,
I gotta didn't. Didn't even flinch.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Should cool earning attention?

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Hot?

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Yeah? No, I guess the same parents.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
That is teah. This one says my friend is a
partner but just told me they like me. I like
them too. I put it on them to decide. I
don't want to be disrespectful to either, so I shouldn't
make the choice. Help because this sucks.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Your friend has a partner, and your friend just told
you that they have feelings.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yeah, and you like them too, but you make you
you're they have to decide if they want to be
with you or their partner because you don't want to
be disrespectful, which is tea. I think it's hmmm. I
here's how I feel.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Go ahead.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
I feel like, if I'm the friend in the relationship,
me telling my friend that I have a crush on
them puts them in an awkward situation and isn't actually
quite friendly of me.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
I also feel like they're being a shit bag. Yeah,
I think. I think it's a shitty thing to do,
because be brave. Be brave, like go through the breakup, yes,
and then tell your friend yeah, and then and then
live with it. If your friend is like, I don't
feel that way about you, yeah, but if you you're
you're betraying multiple people.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Oh yeah, And.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
I've I've been in situations similar to this. I'm actually
not coming at it from a place of judgment. I'm
saying like, you don't want that on you, you don't
want that feeling. You don't and and you're you're the
bad guy when you can't break up with somebody, you
are the bad guy, and I know you feel like
you're not the bad guy. But not being able to
tell somebody that you don't love them anymore, or that
you don't love them in the same way that they

(42:53):
need you to or want you to, or that you
are pretending to and telling other people about that is
the biggest betrayal. Yeah, I don't want anybody. I wish
any time that that had would ever happen to me.
I wish a person would just come straight to me
and go, I'm not feeling it anymore. Absolutely, absolutely, let
me grieve with dignity before you go tell everybody around

(43:14):
me how you don't love me anymore.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Ooh, I'm one hundred percent with that. I've always thought
when it comes to cheating, and now I'm no monogamous
of poly orist, but I would used to say when
I was monogamous, I actually don't care about the cheating.
It's you not telling me about it. Yes, it's the
lying or it's like pretending like we're fine and then
I find out later that you've been doing something like
that part of it, because then I feel like a fool.

(43:36):
It's like, don't make a fool.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
I don't want to feel like an idiot.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
I don't want feel like an idiot. Yeah, that's really what
it is.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Like.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
I would rather you're right, be brave, have the conversation
with me, and then whatever.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
But I get being horny, and I get falling in
love with people. I think falling in love often the
best falling in love happens by accident. Yeah, and so
I don't fault anyone for having that experience. You just can't.
You can't be mad about that. You can feel salty
about one hundred percent. But yeah, if my partner met
somebody that they were just new actually in a moment

(44:07):
that they were way more in love with this person,
saw a much brighter future person with this person. In
loving my partner, i'd want them to have that experience,
And in loving myself, i'd want someone to be with
me that felt that way about me.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yeah, no, don't get involved in that, sweetie.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Yeah, I agree. Honesty can be hard, but the rewards
of that keeping your I always say, keep yourself of
the street clean, Like I remember the person wants to
respond how they respond, but like, make sure that all
of your shit you're doing clean clear above board, with integrity,
with kindness, with compassion. Uh, and then you can't be
it just saves your heart because the heartbreak is gonna

(44:44):
come and heart like with my therapist always says, with
love comes heartbreak, so you're not gonna avoid I love that. Yeah,
it's like it's part of this thing. But can you
be respectful and kind in the middle of heartbreak? Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Oh yeah, fuck, And it can be hard, you can
do it.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
This one says, do some gay men like trans men?

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Now?

Speaker 1 (45:07):
I picked this one because you and I are both
non binary, and I've never I've never gotten to have
a conversation well certainly not on Mike, but like about
what is the experience of coming into your non binary
or trans identity and navigating your sex life. I'll answer

(45:27):
quite quickly, yes, there are plenty of gay men that
love trans men, and plenty of straight men that love
trans women. Like, yes, that's you know, genitals are irrelevant,
But what is the experience of being trans or non binary?
And I think I would say for myself, I still
identify as gay, And so that was also confusing because
with gay it's like, well, you're the same understood as

(45:50):
the same gender, although we sometimes say same sex, but
that's when the gender and sex and those terms get interchanged.
And then I was thinking, well, can I still identify
as gay if I am non binary? And then what
is it to like re enter the space of gay
men now being non binary, and how do they see me?
And there's just so many things, and so I'm just
curious about, like what your experience was as you came

(46:13):
into your non binary identity and then re emerge into
your sex life.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
I think gay is is more of an umbrella term, actually,
and I think that it's the same thing with queer
and lesbian is so gendered and so you know, to me,
it's very it's very like, you know, it's women loving women.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
And I hate being called a lesbian, Yeah, I hate it.
I think it's so like just the very opposite of affirming.
I feel really embarrassed when I get called a lesbian,
and it's it happens all the time. And I have
nothing against lesbians, but I don't identify as a woman.
I really don't. And I love lesbians, I love lesbian culture,

(46:57):
I lovel lesbian films. I've got a bunch of lesbian friends.
I'm not a lesbian and when people are talking about
my girlfriend having a lesbian experience, I'm like, no, she's not.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
Yeah, and my.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Girlfriend's not identifying with that either, But gay, we are
identifying with, queer, we are identifying with It's like it's
the difference between girl and boy, you know, when you're
with your friends and everyone's girl. Yeah, because girl is genderless.
It really is, yes.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Like girl and bro. Yeah, people call me bro. I'm like, yeah,
it's fine. I don't take a gender to brow or
a girl or any event.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
Uh huh. But I guess boy would be weird.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Boy is weird.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Yes, And that's how that's a little bit how I
feel about that. I think I think it depends on
if you're a person and no judgment. If you're a
person that's more about energetics, or if you're a person
that's more about genitals.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Talk to me like, break that. I know what you mean,
but break that down a little more and energetic versus genital.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
If I'm dating a woman that mostly has dated men
and she is into energetics, she is having a very
similar experience. It's just that I can read God, okay,

(48:16):
and that, but that is true. She's like having a
really I'm still her boyfriend. Like that's really how I feel,
and it's just so apparent, like I'm always some woman's
dumb husband. No, no woman has ever pointed to me
and said that's my girlfriend, or that's that's my woman,
that's my lady. Like that is just not the energetic

(48:40):
experience that we are having. And I think that for
some people the genitals are so very important. And that's
that's when I do mean like no judgment, because it's
in some way it's almost a kink where like the
genitals are the prime value here. Okay, well that's fine too,
But I have of met trans men that are more

(49:01):
masculine than a lot of his men, and so if
I personally were into masculinity, it would I might pick
a trans man over a sis man in certain things.
If I'm going for energetics, yes, and the genitals just
don't matter. I'm a horny person. I'm a horny person.
I would fuck a tree, you know what I'm saying.
I have thought about it. I think where I'm like,

(49:23):
you're looking at me, don't.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Talk about the sad.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Yes, No, I'm I'm a horny and I'm really horny
for people's like internal cathedral, right, that's like their understanding
of self, the experience of the world, getting to know
people and then you get to be with their body
and it's like so exciting. That is horny to me,
And sometimes I'm horny in a very like slutty way
where it literally doesn't matter what anybody has. If we're vibing,
if we have that energyah, then it doesn't matter what

(49:50):
you have. That's that's just how I feel. I think
that there are plenty of people who feel the very
opposite of me in that way. We're the only thing
that they can think about. The genital And I talked
to a lot of like straight women, and we're like, man,
you would do it for me, but I just could
never be.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
But a vagina, a vagina, vagina, And that is always
interesting to me because there's so much in my mind
kind of like false emphasis played on put on genitals,
false emphasis put on.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
This, like true like dick worship. You have a vagina,
You have one. Why are you so grossed up by yourself?
You're a grossed up because you live in a culture
that fucking does not like pussy.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
Doesn't like pussy, doesn't like women doesn't like formIn enity. Yeah,
you you're in that pool, so of course you adopt that.
You can end up adopting these these beliefs against yourself,
which that's true, you know. I think about that with
you can be there's a term all skin folk and
kin folks, so like you can be black and still
be you know, anti black. You can be a woman

(50:55):
and still be misogynists. Like we can still do these
things because we are but were rare inside of it.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yes, you know. One of the things that I really
truly admire about the gay male community, gay men I
don't feel shame around having been masturbating their entire life. Yeah,
they just don't feel ashamed about it. They love their.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
Dicks and so normalized.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
But yes, and so when they're with other people that
have dicks, they are like, great, we know how to
do this. Let's have some fun. It feels like even
very casual. Yes, which I mean please, if I had
a dong along, I would be in I would I
would be in the bathhouses, I would be getting same,

(51:40):
I would be in the locker room.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
But they're not pussy jerk sections, so like that's not
a thing.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
And it's not because pussies aren't fucking great and easy
to please. It's because women and and people with pussies
are so separated from that being an okay thing to do.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Yeah, there's so much shame.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
There's so much shame about it. You get all these
jokes when you're in like sixth grade about how you
know that smells like fish and it's disgusting and everyone
knew that. Like I remember at my school there were
girls who got wet, and then it became a big
joke about how disgusting it were. It was that they
got wet, and you know, wet being the sign of pleasure. Yeah,
so it's it's a weird you're constantly navigating all these

(52:22):
landmines when you're a person that has a pussy. You're
just constantly navigating this. And so women get really genital
focused too, but never on themselves needing dick, needing, dick,
needing dick. I'm not buying it. Yeah, what would you
be into if you were not in a culture that
was literally saying cocky is king?

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Yeah, it's all. First of all, one two things you're
talking about the ways in which our genitals are spoken
about over in middle school, elementary school, and how that
that messaging never gets updated to us, and so like
we carry all of that into our adulthood and it's like,
who told you your pussy was bad?

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (53:00):
From sixth grader told you that? Yeah, Now you're in
your thirties and forties still thinking of pussy's been Yeah,
Like that's such a mind fuck. And then to this
last point, who I always sa? Who would I be
if society never got its hands on me? So like
if society never told you that caucus king, if society
actually revered pussy's and revered femininity, how would you actually
feel about yourself? And so like how much of your

(53:22):
baggage belongs to you or was given to you?

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Yeah? Whose voice is that?

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Yes? Whose voice is that? And how do you? And
I think that that is part of the non binary
experience and stepping into that has been a like I
need to shake all this off. Yeah, like what you
told me I was, I am not. And this is
my way of owning who I actually am and getting
to be who I actually am.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
You know a good example I think of the way
that we are, we are mentally like segregated by genitals
in this way of praise is think about how many
toys are targeted to women's masturbation. Okay, and I actually
promote some of these toys, so I'm not dissing the

(54:08):
toys themselves. Yeah, I'm saying how many toys are that
are targeted to being the conduit for women's pleasure. We
have hands, People with vaginas have hands, and not all
of these masturbation tools are being targeted to people with
penises at all, because people with penises have hands, and

(54:31):
so there's this understanding that men know how to get
themselves off and that people with pussies need something else.
The reason I'm not anti toy is because I think that,
you know, thumb people and trans people and women get
so separated from pleasure that I'm like, Okay, do whatever

(54:51):
you need to, but I don't want everyone thinking that
you need a strap to fuck, and that you need
a vibrator to get off, and that you need dildo
to come. You literally do not. We are Our bodies
are meant for fucking each other. Our bodies are meant
for pleasing ourselves. Like the non binary experience that I'm
having is that my whole body is this like sexual machine,

(55:16):
and your whole body is a sexual machine, and as
long as we are connecting, our machines are going to
work together. Yes, if we want to bring in another lever, awesome, awesome,
yeah right, But at at base, our bodies will work
together no matter what body you have.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
I love that and I couldn't agree more. And I
haven't been able to articulate that, and I think that
that is so brilliantly stated because I think that my
non binary experience has shifted how I approach sex, because
even you know, even with the dick, it feels like
there's one way that this works, and it's like on
the top, I'm a bottom, this dick goes in and
that's what we do. And being able to step into

(55:56):
my non binary identity has made me have to question
what sex is and who I have sex with and
who are the people that I'm attracted to, And it's
become far more energetic than genital basics, yes, which is
the you know, I remember the first time I came
without actually coming, which was like my body just orgasm
and there wasn't because I'm like, oh, there's so much
focus on come, and I'm like, you don't have to

(56:17):
come to have a good time. You don't have to, like,
you can have this orgasmic experience is energetic experience. You
can fuck without penetration. Like, well, like, again, what are
we defining as sex and why are we continuing to
define it as a dick in a pussy? And if
it's not that, then we didn't actually have sex. It's
not actually really.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
And all the things that actually like bring women, like
the specifically talking about heterosexuals, all the things that particularly
bring them pleasure are the lead up to penetration.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
Yes, it's not the penetration, yes.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
And so yeah, the penetration after Like we know that
women need like at least like twelve minutes to get
warmed up, right, is women need like twelve minutes to
get warmed up and then penetration can happen And why
aren't we tease? But but it's like and then the
penetration can happen that whole time if you're really into
your partner, that whole time that we're calling lead up

(57:08):
is said, that sucks, Yeah, that sucks. And if that's
if you, I guess there's a mental breakdown for me there.
And like I've had sex with men and so this
was always like a disconnect was I could feel that
that quote unquote lead up was not important to them.
It was only important to them insofar as they were

(57:29):
going to get to the part that they were excited about. Yes,
And that was so unattractive to me.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
So heartbreaking and devastating. When you're like, oh, you're just
you're not actually interested in me, and you're not actually
interested in mutual pleasure. I'm just an object. Which I
don't mind being an object when I want to be
an object, yes, like when it feels like there's a
mutual exchange here, But when I'm just when you're literally
not concerned about my pleasure or.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
The falsehood of pretending to be said about my pleasures
so that you can get what you yes, I hate
and I don't understand it. That's that's sometimes I think that,
in like nineties terms, I think that heteromen can be
like the gayest. Yeah, well, I'm like, y'all don't really
like women's bodies, Like your big excitement is when you

(58:16):
get to like, you know, pound away. Yes, but I'm
attracted to women, and so the whole time that my
partner is having a nice time is the whole time
that I'm having a nice time.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
It's I can't impress this enough to anyone listening. It's
like that to me, is when you've reached sexual nirvana.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
When we're we're when there's an exchange of energies, when
we're and we are getting off on the other getting off,
and it's not just about my like, it's us working
together to create this pleasure, not yours than mine or
mine than yours.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
And that's when you get the squirtsicle period.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
That's how you get see that that partner's doing it.
That's how your sports call and becomes cales. Is when
there's that mutual energy, when the focus is not about
the genitals. As you said, we can add another lover
to this, but it's about the energy. It's about us.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
I love you. It was just so nice.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
I love you so much. This is a dream come truth.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Thank you for being here, Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Yes, well you know we're hose here, but hoes with heart.
So before we go, let me speak to yours. I
am obsessed. When er said, really horny for their internal cathedral,

(59:35):
their understanding of self, their experience of the world. Uh
that just like I felt so seen by that, May
we all be horny for people's internal cathedrals. May we
have the experience of connecting to people in that way?
And also even if we don't, I think, just as

(59:57):
somebody who is into that, it's so validating to hear
there are other people who really vibe with the energetic
you know, who vibe with matching people's energies. And I
really really love this, you know, this thing to unpack
about how focused we might be on genitals and why

(01:00:20):
is that? What is the culture we've grown up in
that is so focused on cock worship? You know, what
would you be into if culture wasn't saying cock is king?

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Uh? You know?

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
It just is this thing that you know, I keep
coming back to. Who would I be so decided? I
never got its hands on me? This idea that we've
been trained and reared and indoctrinated to believe certain things
are better than other things, or feel love towards dick
but discussed towards volvas, And how do we undo that?

(01:00:54):
How do we unpack that? How do we reorient what
should be priority? Which is pleasure, which is your pleasure,
mutual pleasure, which is your energy, which is your connection
to people. And that doesn't mean that we need to
fall in love and get married, but like that, it's
okay to value the person that you're in bed with,

(01:01:20):
to value how they use that cock and that vulva
and not just they have a cock revolva and always interrogating,
as Er said, whose voice is that? Whose voice is
telling you this is right, this is wrong? And expanding
your definition of sex. You don't need to strap on
a fuck, I want that tat it. You don't need

(01:01:41):
a strapland a fuck at base, our bodies will work
together no matter what body you have. Er was just
dropping gems on gems on gems. And when you think
about that, like, if you were to expand your definition
of sex and it is just about how we connect
and how we worship at each other's internal cathedrals, then yeah,

(01:02:04):
our bodies will work together and we'll find pleasure with
each other and the genitals aren't of the utmost importance.
Now listen, This is not to say like, don't include
your toys, or if you like dick, don't like dick,
if you like pussy, don't like put like of course,
like please do you. But I think it's about expanding
It's about, uh, not just having one focus. It's about

(01:02:28):
being able to bring more to the table than just
your genitals, or or be interested in more than just
someone's genitals, and at the same token, have love for yours,
you know, have have have love and respect and admiration
and adoration for your own genitals, for whatever you're bringing

(01:02:49):
to the table, not seeing what you're giving between your
thighs as wrong, and working together to build pleasure. Ugh,
this conversation really nourished me, as I'm sure you could
hear and you can feel in this moment, so I
hope it did the same for you. I love you.

(01:03:12):
You can find me on Instagram as well at Brandon
Kyle Goodman. You can find our podcasts at tell Me
Something Messy, and you can join our community on the
Messy Monday's substack. When you subscribe, you'll get weekly posts,
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I want to hear from you, so send your topic ideas,
your messy stories, your submissions, your game ideas to tell

(01:03:37):
Me Something Messy at gmail dot com. You can also
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all right. Until next time, ask about the politics of

(01:03:58):
that dick before you make it spit, make sure they
eat the kitty before they beat the kittie, before fucation
or suckcation communication. And in case you haven't heard it yet,
today you are so deeply loved. I love you ye,
thank you so much for listening to tell Me Something Messy.
If you all enjoyed the show, send the episode to

(01:04:20):
someone else you might like it. Tell Me Something Messy
was executive produced by Ali Perry, Gabrielle Collins, and Yours Truly.
Our producer and editor is Vince Dejohnny. For more podcasts
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