June 19, 2025 • 54 mins
After a very messy bunch of mail, Brandon finds a question about the sex talk that they can't answer alone. Founder of The Youth Sexpert Program, Tara Michaela, joins Brandon for a full breakdown of the issues in formal sex education, sexual racism and how parents can approach their young people about sex.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
They had all the kids in the classroom, like, take
an oreo, chew the oreo and spit it into a
cup and then pass around the cup. And then said, no,
if you have sex with multiple people, you'll be like
this disgusting cup of like chewed up oreos.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
No, that's so traumatic. You know what. This is a
safe space to talk about relationships, love and sex. Now,
let me tell you something messy. Happy Juneteenth. I don't
know when you'll be listening to this, but this episode
comes out on juneteenth. June nineteenth. Baby. Now, if you
(00:38):
don't know what Juneteenth is, girl, what you be in
but listen we educational podcast. I'm gonna help you out. Okay.
It's a holiday celebrated on June nineteenth to commemorate the
emancipation of enslaved people in the US. The holiday was
first celebrated in Texas. We're on that date in eighteen
sixty five. In the aftermath of the Civil War, enslaved
people were declared free under the terms of the eighteenth
(01:00):
sixty two Emancipation Proclamation. Okay, so today it's all about
celebrating the ancestors, my ancestors, the black ancestors. Okay, not
everybody's ancestors, the black ones. Okay, to be clear, Okay,
but of course we have to do it in true
messy style. So today I would like to honor some
hose throughout history whose unapologetic love of life and sex
(01:24):
has paved a path for hose like me and you
to exist today. Okay, let's do it. First Up, First,
hoe is Miss Lucille Bogan, a blues singer who recorded
hits like Shave Him Dry, where she proudly states I
got nipples on my titties big as the end of
(01:45):
my thumb. I got something between my legs that'll make
a dead man come all right, bars spitting bars, okay,
and Shave Him Dry was originally recorded in nineteen thirty five.
Honey Seal Bogan, Miss Lucille Bogan a true oh we
salute Okay. The next so is Maraini, a blues singer
(02:09):
who openly embraced her bisexuality in the nineteen twenties. Ma
was married to a man, but that also didn't stop
her from participating in lesbian parties that is a bisexual honey.
But she was arrested in nineteen twenty five for participating
in an all woman orgy, which gave us her hit
song Prove It on Me Blues, where she proudly stated,
(02:29):
went out last night with a crowd of my friends.
They must have been woman because I don't like no men.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Ma.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Rainie's unapologetic openness with her sexuality was an act of revolution,
especially during a time where blackness and queerness were demonized.
We salute you, my Rainie. And finally, and this one
you better know. Okay you might have know the other ones,
but you better know this one. This is my queen
right here. Artha Kit known as the Temptress of Hollywood,
(02:58):
Eartha's unapologetically sexy approach to life provided inspiration for generations
of bad bitches to come from her hit single Santa
Baby that reminds us even Santa needs to pay to
play to her iconic role as Catwoman that brought Batman
and everyone watch and to their knees. Eartha was known
(03:19):
for her drove of lovers, but also taught us that
we do not need to compromise for love. If y'all
you know the clip I'm talking about. If you don't,
please look it up. Okay. She reminds us that quote
a relationship has to be earned not to be compromised.
For there's nothing in the world more beautiful than falling
in love, but falling in love for the right reason,
(03:42):
for the right purpose, fall in love with yourself and
find someone to share it with. Ay, far she ate
that up, Earth, I ain't that up? Okay. We salute you, Shay,
I fell and Mama's slave to these whole originators. Okay,
shout out to their sisters who were in their hoe bag.
They are why I get to sit here on a
(04:04):
mike and freely talk to you about relationships, love and sex,
speaking of which now it is your team. So this
is the holiday that everyone gets off because right like
now and now I think I believe it's a federal holiday,
so everybody gets off. And I just like to say,
a colleague and I were talking about this, and we really,
I just white people, you should still go to work.
I don't know what white person needs to hear this,
but you should still be at work. Love, Okay. And
(04:28):
and my colleague said this, she said, white folks should
go to work and they should give their pay to
someone black. Amen. Amen, a fam I shay somebody y'all
should go to work and get at pay. To somebody
black absolutely, okay, quite honestly, because where the reparations. Where
are the reparations? Quite honestly, I want my reparations to
(04:49):
come from Delta the airline, because I want I want
free travel and I want to be first class. I
want to be able to you know, just spin a globe,
stop at wherever I want and be like Delta and
they'd be like, yeah, babe, we got you black excellence.
Where you want to go, you know what I'm saying.
And also food, I want food, you know you like
I'm saying, you don't have to send me a check,
but like, give me food. I want the best. I
(05:11):
don't even like. Here's the I don't even want to
go to your restaurant. I want you to door dash
that shit to me. Okay, I'm touch of taurists. I'm
such a fucking taurist. I don't even want to go
to your restaurant because I don't want to be around
people like that. Okay, just just door dash shas shit
to me, okay, And if you could, if you could, love,
I'd like it to still be warm when it gets there.
(05:32):
It's all right. I have a microwave and an air fighter,
so I can heat it up, but partly I would
like you to just make sure that it arrives hot.
Why don't more people have don't like Dominoes create like
a heat oven like travel thing, right, isn't am I crazy?
Or pizza hut one of them? Is that go to
the pizza places they used to. I feel like in
(05:52):
the nineties, maybe it's still true. I don't really order
that much like that. Well, I order all the time,
but not from like specifically Dominoes or other places. But
I remember back in the day Dominoes they were like
advertised they had like the heat oven like cooler thing,
not a cooler, but you know what I'm saying. It
was like the pack the box winning and when you
got to the pizza is still hot. Why don't people
use that anymore? See? Why don't they use that? I
(06:15):
feel like that's that was such a wonderful device because
more often than not, and this is this is, this
is this is such a not a real problem. But
you know, but but let me speak to it. Let
me speak, Let me speak to it. Sometimes the food
of rips and it's cold, you know, I just and
I'll micwave it. I don't mind microwaving it. I don't
(06:36):
mind air frying it. But like I'm just like, oh,
I kind of want I wanted to be warm when
it arrived. I wanted one less step because you know,
I'm at home anyways. Anyways, shout out to door dash man.
You know, maybe maybe y'all get the door dashers, the
the heater things, whatever they're called. They're not called convention ovens, right, no,
(06:56):
because that's a thing that's an actual who I've lost
the rain on this, by the way, Welcome to the show.
I'm your host, Brandon, call good man. Most people call
me messy mom, but you can call me Dama host.
The pizza is always hot. Wait no, no, the pussy's always hot.
The pussy's always in heat for that pepperoni meat. Come on,
come on, that's a hit, just unhinged for you know,
(07:18):
Miss Lucille Bogan and my Rady would be proud because
those a straight bars. Those are straight bars. I don't
care what y'all say. Happy junteen, start the show. Let's go.
Let's get it started with the whole manifesto. Shall we
repeat after me aloud or in your head? Grant me
the serenity to unpack my shame, the courage to heal,
the wisdom to know that sex is not about penetration,
(07:39):
the audacity to advocate for my pleasure and boundaries, the
strength to not call my ex that fuck boy, fuck girl,
or fuck they, for it is better to masturbait by
myself in peace than to let someone play in my
motherfucking face. Let the hommunity say ho helujah. Maybe you
(08:00):
know what that means. It's time for messy mail. As always,
your submissions remain anonymous. This one says, I'm a by
woman dating a by man. I thought it was polyamorous,
but learned that romantically, I'm quite monogamous. I just love
group sex. How do I find people who are interested
in threesomes without sounding like my boyfriend and I saw
(08:20):
you across the bar or being accused of unicorn hunting? Now,
if you haven't heard the term unicorn hunting, it's a
term most often used in discussions about non monogamy and polyamory.
Yea this educational podcast and that's on period, Okay. It
refers to a couple, usually a heterosexual assists man and
woman who seek a bisexual woman to join their relationship.
Typically for sex or a romantic triad. The unicorn label
(08:44):
comes from the idea that this kind of person is
rare and mythical, especially someone willing to equally please and
fit into a couple's dynamic without disrupting it, which is,
you know, not ideal. But my feeling is one I
really love of this realization that you're not necessarily polyamorous,
(09:05):
you're actually monogamous, but you love group sex. That's such
a really important distinction and one that you probably wouldn't
have been able to arrive at without exploring polyamory and
now monogamy. So there's nothing more satisfying to me than
finding more language to help us articulate and express who
(09:26):
we are. And so it sounds like you've found that.
How do you find three sims of that? Sounding like
your boyfriend and I saw you from across the bar. One,
I think just communicating with people that like, it's not
just a thing, like you can say, we're both by
we're both interested in you, and we would like to kicky. Also,
sex parties are a great space. I know that people.
(09:48):
I haven't used it, but Field is an app that
a lot of folks use. I see by couples on Grinder.
You know, a lot of times it's the by man forward,
but sometimes I will see their cis woman partner with
them on there. Not all the time, by the way,
(10:09):
like a couple of times I've seen it. I feel
like the being accused of unicorn hunting is more about perception.
And if you know that's not what you're doing and
that's not your intention, then I wouldn't worry about that.
I would over communicate what you and your partner are
looking for, because there's nothing wrong with a couple looking
(10:30):
for a third That is a beautiful, wonderful experience, and
there are plenty of people who would be down to
be the guest star. Okay, I love personally, I love
being a guest star. Now my thing with three sums.
I've talked about this before because I've been in threesoms
where like one person was super excited about it and
the other person was not. I highly, highly highly do
not recommend that, because it's just because then, like as
(10:53):
the third you, I feel then I'm like taking care of,
Like I can't really let go because like one person
is into with the other person might be into it,
might be scared, but there's like a taken care of
and so I like to make sure that both parties
are equally into it, equally attracted, equally down for it,
equally on board. And it sounds like you are, and
so like I think that there are plenty of people
(11:14):
who would be so down to be a guest star,
but just communicate. I think it's also in your approach, right,
It's not like a swarming my boyfriend or not saw
across the bar. That might work for some, but you know,
I think it's it's being who you are with him.
Maybe it's you approach first or he approaches first, and
you see what the person is into. Some people aren't
(11:35):
into threesomes. Some people are just not gonna be into it,
and that's okay. But I would not worry about the
being accused of unicorn hunting because from your message, it
doesn't sound like that's what you're doing. It just sounds
like you want group sex, and there are plenty of
people who do want group sex for just sex stuff.
A sex party or a party that has a dark
room type vibes are my favorite for those because there's
(11:59):
no it can just be in the moment, there's no
high stakes around it. Obviously there's a privilege in that,
a male privilege in that, so you know, knowing the party,
knowing the space, knowing the people is important. But that's
kind of my favorite way to fight. If I'm gonna
be in a threesome, that's my favorite way to do
(12:20):
it because then you know, we can dance, we can vibe,
and if the dancing is because you know, I love
emotional connection, so the dancing is working, and the dancing
is vibing and the flirting is whatever, then we could,
you know, escalate this to the bedroom. I hope. Answer
to your question, this one says trigger warning, racism, okay work,
(12:40):
which you know we're talking Juneteenth, So here we are.
I asked to have a video call with a guy
before a meet, a basic safety precaution I do for everyone,
and he shut it and us down and said I
was asking a black man to prove his innocence. I'd
love to hear your thoughts. You are so compassionate and
understanding on so many messy things. I think this has
(13:04):
nothing to do with race, And interestingly enough, this person,
in my opinion, I don't know what race you are.
You might be black as well or not black. But this,
you know, you asking for a video call, which is
something that you do often, is not a racial thing.
(13:27):
So I feel like this was an overreach. And quite honestly,
whoever this person is, I don't know, if you had
photos before or you like didn't see photos or whatever,
is not the right partner, because I would want to
do anything as a partner. I would want to do
anything to make a potential partner feel safe and make sure,
(13:48):
like you know, and if safety is like verification, that
is not uncommon, that's not a weird thing, and so
to prove innocence, like you weren't accusing him of anything.
So I think it's all sus And I kind of
think that you you dodged something, whoever this person is,
and you know, I think you you dodged it. So
(14:09):
I wouldn't worry about this. I think it's totally valid
to ask for video calls or you know, voice memos
or you know instagrams like you know, any and baby.
In this modern age, we are getting strangers as hot
as it is or whatever it is, like, we still
meeting strangers and there are still some wild ass strangers
(14:31):
out there, okay, And so I think that whatever you
have to do so that you can like let your
guard down and enjoy the pleasure and the passion, do it,
ask for it. And if the person isn't down to
do it, and for whatever reason they give, that's not
on you, that's on them. So you know, you say okay, work, bye,
and then move on to the next That's what I
(14:53):
think this one says. I love this one. My previous
personal trainer who still works at my gym, came over
this morning after my workout to stretch me. Oh work,
oh oh oh, actually stretch you okay sorry. While he
was on his way out choose on in the entry away,
I dropped to my knees and gave him delicious head. Yes,
(15:15):
I know that's right. He insists on giving me a
massage next time. Oh my god, can I get one too.
I am loving this exchange pleasure for delicious pleasure. Side note,
I love that I don't need anything else from him,
and there's that there's a big chance I won't have
penetrative sex with him. As a heterosexual assist woman, it's
super empowering to just want to give this man head
without feeling like I'm being taken advantage. Of yummy. Fuck, yeah,
(15:38):
that is so yummy. First of all, I love a
trainer fantasy. I've I've had some of those. I've had
some wonderful trainers in my life, and I would you've
never had anything happen, but like, you know, if something did, like,
I wouldn't be mad about it, although most my trainers
have been straight, but I wouldn't be mad about it
because tell me about working out. Ooh, that is like,
(16:00):
haven't done it? I haven't done it, but like sex
right after a workout is I feel that it's an
easy fantasy for me to fulfill. Why haven't I done
that yet? But that is, uh, I have done ooh,
I did do this. I did give head after like
in somebody's car in the gym parking lot after a workout.
And I'm gonna tell you right now, you might you might.
(16:21):
Don't turn it off. Don't turn this off. Don't turn
don't turn this off. The balls were they had that
just worked out smell, which I love. It wasn't it
wasn't ran sid It was just like, oh, you just
worked out, you know, shower yet I sucked the funk
out of that dick. I really did, and it was God,
(16:41):
you know, I'm actually not I don't love public play.
I'll do it sometimes and it feels right whatever, And
we were like parked on aware no one because I
don't want people to see it unconsensually, like that's not
fun to me. Like, but if it's in a space,
like if it's in a dark room or you know,
we're in a gay part of town and it's late
at night on Saturday in an alleyway, you know, I've done
all that that's wine, but that gym energy that like workout,
(17:02):
and we just worked out. We just THEO cardgo, you know,
lifted some weights. Feeling good. Oh yes, please, And I
love that this is this submission, patron. It feels so
empowering and I love that you feel so empowered by it.
And I'll you know, I hope you get that massage.
But let me hear it right now, that massage would
(17:23):
lead for me. For me, Brandon, a massage is gonna
lead to a lot more. That's on period, Like you
miss if you if you massage me correctly, that you
will get anything you want. In fact, I will, I
will make sure that I'm douched in case, because if
that's what you want, you gonna get it. If you
want it, you won't get If you want this stunt,
you won't get it. Like all of my holes are
(17:44):
relaxed when you massage me, and so you could use
any one of them however you want. That's that's just me. Now.
If the massage is bad, that is the quickest way
for my procey to dry up. I'm gonna just say that, Okay.
If the massage I had, I think I've told you
about the sign of bad massage once if a like
she was whispering with her fingers and I hated it.
It was awful, and it really did. It made A
(18:06):
bad massage makes me irate? When's the last time I
used that word? Irate? Honey? Is that right? I rate? Yeah?
Like like upset, irritated? Yeah, baby, Look come on educational podcast.
I know words. Maybe I rate honey. Oh lord, but
a good massage you can get any of these holes.
And that quote me on that this question says help.
(18:36):
My kid is turning into a teenager, and I know
we need to have a sex talk, but I'm not
sure how to have it or where to even begin.
I don't want to just hand him a pack of
condoms and say God speed like my parents did. Tea.
Are there any resources you or the Home Unity can recommend? Well, Patronsino,
what that means? We have a guest. I've brought someone
(18:58):
in to help us answer this question.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Question.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Tara Michaela is a sex educator based in Philadelphia and
New York. She is the founder of the Youths Expert Program,
a nonprofit training program that aims to provide comprehensive sex
education and communications training for teenagers across North America so
they can become their community's sex expert. Her work focuses
primarily on how injustice manifests in sexual interactions. She uses
(19:23):
her social media platforms, written pieces, and public speaking engagements
to connect with her community on these issues. Please help me.
Welcome Tara, Hi, Tara.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Hi, Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I'm so happy you're part of our messy little community
here teaching us how to swalk our shit. Yes, yes,
what is considered youth? Like? What is the youngest age
that you think that we should be talking to youth
or kids about sex?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah? So we work with ages fourteenth through eighteen.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
But I think a really important of this question is
this idea that sex ed starts when you become a
teenager or when you start puberty, and I don't necessarily
think that's true. We work alongside a lot of youth
sex educators who work with younger age demographics, and I
think a lot of what can help make these conversations
(20:19):
easier for parents is when you start out as early
as you possibly can, creating an environment where these conversations
are a little bit more normal in your household, where
you know your anatomical terms aren't a bad word, Vagina
isn't a dirty word, penis isn't a dirty word. Where
you're talking about consent in like contexts from you know,
(20:42):
getting a hug from grandma and grandpa to what your
you know, young person wants to eat for dinner. There's
a lot of these concepts that I think can range
beyond explicitly partnered sex and are important to bring up
with young people really from the age that they're understanding English.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah. I love on Big a Mouth, the show that
I used to write on, which if you haven't watched
season eight of the final season, it's incredible, But our
main character Nick, his parents are incredibly sex positive and
so like there's this like there's you know, the push
and pull of the embarrassment of a kid being like,
my mom and dad are talking about sex openly, but
I really kind of envy that like that that it
(21:24):
wasn't that for those characters, the for mom and dad
on Big Mouth, that they aren't uncomfortable about sex and
they're not uncomfortable having those conversations with their with their kids.
And so I'm curious what you think, for you know,
a parent, how does a parent become more comfortable talking
about sex, Because I mean I means like, if you're
uncomfortable with sex, then yeah, of course you're going to
(21:46):
be uncomfortable talking to your kids about sex. So maybe
this is the start. Like how do we do you
think get more comfortable talking about sex as adults?
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's it's so normal that
there's going to be a level of anxiety that you experience.
And I think that there's a lot of conversations that
we don't push having these conversations because they're easy, but
we should push having these conversations because they're important. And
I do think as the parent especially, there is some
level of responsibility that's on you to push through the
(22:19):
awkwardness and if your teen is being awkward, like that's
going to happen, and just continue pushing through. But I
do think a part of it is finding community. I
think that the beautiful, wonderful thing about social media, and
there are you know, pros and cons, but I think
one of the greatest things is that you have a
(22:40):
lot more control over your own media intake, and I
think you can surround yourself with people and with parents
who have similar ideologies to you, who are talking about
their conversations with their teens and how they experience that.
I also think in situations where I experience social anxiet
or just anxiety about conversations that I know I need
(23:03):
to have, it can help me a little bit like
planning ahead of time when I think I want to
say and when.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
So there are tips and tricks that you can use.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
But I think generally the sort of overarching point is
that it doesn't have to be easy, but it is important,
and it will get easier with time. Practice absolutely does
make perfect and again, creating an environment where the conversations
are a little bit more normal, I think as the
adult in the situation, that environment is a lot more
(23:34):
in your control.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Than in theirs.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I really love the It may not be easy, but
it's important. That's such a great like North Star, where
you're like, this is gonna beuncomfortable, it's gonna be squeamish.
I don't know what we're gonna be talking about, but
it is important for me to have this conversation because
you know, it is a you know, I'll talk about
my and I would love to know what your experience
of sex education is and why this became so important.
(23:57):
But like for me, sex education and school, I think
I've told this story. We like walked into the room
after like recess, I think this was seventh grade. Mister
Veraldi shout out to mister Araldi's class, and we walked
into our empty classroom and at the front desk was
a wooden like it was a shaft, but it didn't
look like a dick, but it was dick remnants or
(24:21):
like reminiscent of a dick, and we literally like, that's it,
that's a dick. We all screamed, as like you know,
twelve year olds, and then like shortly after, my homeroom
teacher walks in with who he introduces as a nurse
who's like going to teach us about sex education. So
of course we're like, oh, it is a dick work,
and like it was like teaching us how to put
a condom on. And then that was that was it.
(24:43):
That she left, Like that was the extent of it.
And then I went to boarding school in Rome, Georgia.
Shout out to Rome, Georgia, and they, you know, it
was a health class, and they divided the boys and
the girls, which already is a non binary person, I'm
kind of fucking a queer person. But then I to
boys and the girls, and you know, it was it
was an abstinence conversation. We have, you know, there's a
(25:04):
church on our campus and so like we're very Christian
forward religious word, and so the conversation was really about abstinence.
I think there was mention of condoms. But what was
really funny to me at that point, it was my
freshman year in high school, was that I knew of
a bunch of boys in the class were already having sex.
I really know what sex was, certainly didn't know what
queer sex was, but I knew that there were boys
in the class having sex. And so we're being taught abstinence,
(25:27):
but like that's kind of useless. And so I've always
I've always personally had an issue with sex education in
our country, and so I'm really really thrilled that the
program that you're creating is like, no, no, like we
should talk about this totally.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
A lot of that absolutely resonates.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I think people tend to think that the only types
of sex education that we have in this country are
either abstinence only, sex education focusing on smaller communities south
and comprehensive sex ed. But what I've experienced is that
the vast majority of people I meet went through abstinence
plus programs, which are what's that essentially, they will teach
(26:08):
you something like something somewhat like some sort of actual
sex ed content, but the focus is really on abstinence
as the only means of preventing STIs and the only
means of preventing unwanted team pregnancy. And so that's I
(26:30):
think nearly as harmful in considering that the actual sex
ed that you get, for the most part is just
the worst of the worst STI horror stories and how
to use a condom, maybe birth control.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
That's about it.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
There's really never any conversation about consent never any conversation
about queerness.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
There are so many other topics.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So for me, I was raised in Massachusetts, very liberal
area in a very liberal state, and I definitely didn't
get enough out of sex education. But I also know
in being a sex educator, and usually the first thing
people tell me when I tell them I'm a sex
educator is how bad sex it was for them.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
The stories that I hear.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
What's like one of the worst stories. Can you remember
you remember one of the Oh.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
My gosh, there was one where they had all the
kids in the classroom, like take an oreo, chew the
oreo and spit it into a cup and then pass
around the cup and then said, if you have sex
with multiple people, you'll be like this disgusting cup of
like chewed.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Up or no, no, no, yes, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
So oh that's so traumatic.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
It's traumatic. And I hear these stories all the time,
so I I feel like I can't complain and I
and I tend not to because I know that it
could be so much worse. And I know that, especially
now in the face of like the crazy education legislation
that's happening. Yeah that don't say gay bills. The baby
Olivia all of these things that are happening across the US.
(28:08):
But that being said, I definitely didn't get what I needed,
and I definitely grew up feeling like at some point,
I think I started to become sexually active as a
young person, and I was realizing that I was expected
to learn about sex through experience, which felt really backwards
to me, and I just felt like there were all
(28:30):
of these harmful moments that could have absolutely been prevented
in my life if somebody had just talked to me
about sex earlier. It seemed like such a simple solution,
and it was so frustrating that I had to learn
through through guess works, through yeah, through experiences with other
like young people who were also like learning themselves and
(28:52):
like didn't necessarily know about harm prevention or about yeah,
just how to treat others with empathy. I mean, teenagers
are dealing with so many complex things. So that was
kind of where a lot of this started. And then
I was doing adult sex education mostly through like content
creation and writing for different publications, and I kind of
(29:13):
just knew, like, I love what I love what I
was doing, and I know that there were so many
conversations that I was having because people missed those conversations
when they were growing up, right, and they really deserved acts.
We all deserve access to the information. But I knew
I kind of was doing this work for like my
high school self, and I was like, I would so
much rather have had somebody to just talk to me
(29:35):
the way that I'm talking to other people when I
was that age.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, why do you think parents are against talking about
sex or like what would you muse as like the
reason that it like the obstacle of talking about sex.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I think a lot of it goes back to what
I've heard some people called not my kidism, like this
idea that like other kids might be sexually active or
even I might have been thinking about sex at that age,
but like not my kid, like they, I think most
parents would like to think that they know any and
(30:15):
everything about their young person. Yeah, Like, there is kind
of an initial reaction when you think about the concept
of what topics are comfortable to talk about with young people,
Like I think that that's a lot of what we
struggled with when we were first creating the curriculum, was like,
there are topics that increasingly I feel like it's appropriate,
(30:41):
it's socially considered appropriate to talk about with young people,
like things like consent or things like condom use, or
things like periods. And then there are topics that I
think societally are still too taboo to talk about with
young people, things like masturbation, things like orgasm, things like
(31:04):
kink and BDSM, And I always think that last one
is super interesting. We had a video that went kind
of viral that ended up being about our conversations about
kink and BDSM with teens, which I expected.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Kind of a lot of backlash there.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
And the funny thing about that is there's all this
new research coming out around how teens are more and
more often choking one another during sex and how it's
a really unsafe practice if you don't know what you're doing. Yeah,
And so when you think about that and you think
about like the increasingly mainstream representations of BDSM, things like
(31:52):
fifty Shades of Gray. I think fifty Shades of Gray
came out because I'm still gen z. It came out
when I was fifteen, and I saw it in theaters.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
So you're like, I'm watching it.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
I remember seeing it.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, I watched this when I was fifteen. I'm sure
it's just as easy to access now, if not easier, right.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
And yet we're not talking about it.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, we're not talking about it.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
I mean we had which I know you've worked with
her dB if sex with Sex of a dB. We
were talking about the importance of representation of these things
because you're seeing it in movies, you're seeing it in TV.
Like teens are watching it, youth are watching it, but
they're not necessarily always given the context around it, Which
is how I feel about sex in general, is that
(32:38):
like sex is everywhere, and yet we're not allowed to
talk about it. And so then you end up in
a situation where you know somebody is trying to choke
somebody because it looked hot in that movie, but no
one has stopped to be like, hey babe, that's a
little dangerous, and like, if you're gonna do it, this
is the way that you do. I mean, I love
like me. It's a it's a joke scene of mean girls.
(32:58):
But when she tells them, if you're gonna drink, I'd
rather you do it at home, It's like, yeah, like
I would like, if we're gonna do you have this happen,
I'd rather we like talk about it in the house
as opposed to denying it. That that that not my
kid ism is such a great way to label it.
And it's how I think teens fall through the cracks
(33:20):
or kids fall through the cracks because a parent is
so convinced. Have you watched Forever the Netflix?
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Not yet?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I think you have to watch it. It's so good.
But one of this, one of the main storylines is
that the lead girl a sex tape leaks and she
hasn't told her mother. She's like changed schools. I'm not
giving anything away, but like she has changed schools. Uh.
And and then eventually it's how does she tell her mom?
And I think her mom, who's played by the wonderful
(33:47):
Zosia rock War, is kind of in that not my
kid is the like, would never expect that my kid
would have would be doing anything, let alone videotape it.
And I think that it's Ah. We had Lena on
the Selena the Show and we were talking about the
inability to see your kid, whether they're a kid or
they're an adult. But like a parent, sometimes inability to
(34:08):
see their child as they are as opposed to the
version of them, and perhaps that's what gets lost in
these or that's why some of these conversations don't happen
because we want to see our kid as the non
sexual being and deny that like no, you maybe you
won't be horny doode.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Like yeah, no, yeah, I think we Also we do
this like boxing in sort of where it's like your
sex life is supposed to start at xyz age and
before yes, you are supposed to be free of any
sexual thoughts, sexual feelings whatever. It is so anti like
(34:50):
our actual biology and how humans actually operate, Like yeah,
most people start self simulating at in like infancy, at
like the age of two.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Oh, I used to mass, I'm telling you, I used
to rub my fucking dick on my pillows at like
age three or four, I got like I called out
during like naptime because they put out our cots, and
it was like I didn't know what I was doing,
but I knew it was a way that would make
me relax. Like I would rub my pillow and then
I would like experience you know, euphoria, and then I
(35:21):
would go to sleep. So I was like doing that
at during nap time, like when I was like five
or six or four sorted younger four and I remember
getting caught by miss Angie, Hi, miss Angie, and like
there was a bit of like, you know, just there
was disgust when like it wasn't you know that Instead
of being like, oh, that's natural and kind of approaching
(35:43):
it and are like, hey, maybe let's not do that
right now, there was such a disgust that like I
then adopted that disgust around it, and so then masturbation
became very secret for me, and it's still something in
my adulthood that I'm undoing. But it's like because no
one down to talk to you about your body and
what you're going to feel and pleasure, then you are
(36:06):
usually given a message that something's wrong, and then you
adopt that and then everything becomes secret and shame. And
then I think that's where kids end up sucking up
because no one's forever actually does a great job of
this forever. Like there's a scene where like his dad
is like give some condoms, and like he's like, I'm
not doing that, and his dad is like, take the
fucking condoms. You know, there's like a I'm not going
(36:27):
to deny that you're you know, we never mean to fuck,
but like it happens, right, and so you should be
prepared for it. Yeah, that's a long tangent, but.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
I need to watch.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yes, No, I think that there's there's definitely a way
to as a parent be like that's something that you
do in private, and like let's talk about privacy, and
let's talk about you know what masturbation is.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
And et cetera, et cetera. And then there's one most
of us.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Get, which is just like don't, don't, don't do it,
And it's like, how is that going to translate to
healthy sexuality later on?
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, all of.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
These messages and then suddenly you're allowed to be a
sexual being after being told your entire life that like
that's completely forbid, and like how does that not mess
with your head?
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Oh? Wow, I never thought about that. That's so true. Right,
You're being denied, denied, denied, and then you turn eighteen,
you go to college, and then you're like go off.
But like no one same with drinking, Like no one's
talked to you about it, no one's told you what
alcohol can do. And so you got a bunch of
n yu, you got a bunch of eighteen year olds,
you know, fucking stumbling Third abb because we don't know
(37:37):
what our rebbits.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Are, you know, And I remember, yeah, yeah, no, I
remember all the kids getting the ambulance called absolutely the
beginning of freshman year.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, alcohol poisoning out the ass always because no one
was like, you know, because even the school did it right.
The school is like no drinking, no whatever, but no
and was like, hey, if you are gonna do this,
whether it's drinking or sex or whatever, it is, like,
let's talk through it. I think actually, n y U
two they did. Did you see the Reality show? Did? Yes?
(38:13):
For those listening, there's a there's like a bunch of
incredible talented students that are in Tish that basically create
a like musical sketch show called The Reality Show, and
it kind of touches on all the things I'm triggering.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
It was so.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
So it basically it talks about different things that happened
on campus. It's like a it's like an interactive intro
into campus life. And so one of the things they
talk about are like STI s and where you can
get tested. And I remember that being the first time
that I heard chlamydia, the first time that I heard,
you know, syphilis, heard gonna Rhea and you know, there's
(38:57):
I don't know, this is years ago, but so they
might have shifted how they talk about it. But it
was definitely like the scary part of the show. It
was like you won't get gone right, yeah, and so
like that, but like to have never heard those words before,
to now be hearing it for the first time, and
then for it to then be in the lens of
(39:19):
it's scary. Yeah, that's a mind fuck. That's a mind
fuck for and for anyone, but for sure somebody who's
young and doesn't necessarily feel like they have the space
or or the resources to ask questions.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Yeah, say, with STI stigma, I think especially like how
are you okay? If we're looking at the world, fifty
percent of young people are going to get an STI
before the age of twenty four, And it's like, if
you are one of every two people who gets that diagnosis,
how are you supposed to understand process still be able
(39:55):
to have self worth, self love, self confidence if that's
how we're Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, and then you know what it also does, which
is one of my least things. But like even in adulthood,
when people, you know, people are having especially the queers
and the queer men like and male bodies like or
having unprotected sex. You know, everyone's on prep and whatever,
but like if you get an STI like, I fully
believe in like telling people your sexual partners. I got
(40:23):
this thing, get tested. One. One part of this, I'll
say is I was talking to a friend of mine
who were like, we never get called. Like I've been
in LA for ten years, I you know, have a
decent amount of sex. I have maybe received two calls
in that time. And it's like, and I've definitely had
sdis more than two sdis in that time. And so
it's interesting that there's a shame there. But then also
(40:44):
happens is when you do tell somebody, then there's like
a blaming of you and it's like, no, baby, I
didn't create gonorrhea, like you might have given it to me,
but like it's such a yeah, we don't talk about it,
so nobody knows about it. So then there's just a
lot of reactivity and anger about it. And so that's
why I think, like if you're able to talk to
youth about it, then you have some healthier adults navigating
(41:07):
their sex life as opposed to kind of having a
second adolescence in a way. Right.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
That's also like why I love that our program is
kind of face to face or screen to screen because
we're able to have more nuanced conversations where it's like,
here's what you need to know about STIs.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
But also it's not a death sentence. It's not the
end of the world.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Things are preventable, and we should always try to prioritize
taking care of our health as best as we can.
And also like sometimes people get the common cold or
the flu and we don't pass moral judgments on them,
So why is this so different? Right? And I think
disclosure is a really nuanced and interesting conversation, and we
get to have nuanced in interesting conversations because I think
(41:57):
disclosure is also like, yes, in a perfect world, old
everybody would disclose, and I think most people agree that
it's like the morally right thing to do, but yeah,
it's a lot more complicated than that. There's a lot
of blame and backlash that happens, and it's kind of
easier to sit on your high horse and say, well,
(42:17):
disclosure is something that needs to happen when you're not
necessarily in a position to be disposing things. And then you,
you know, interact with people who actually are and you
realize it can be a lot more complicated than that.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
I have a question for you. So like a parent
comes to you and says, I want to talk about sex.
As this person wrote in with my teenager, what are
you know? Like sex is a huge umbrella. There's so much,
which is why like I understand this, this person who
wrote in like the overwhelm of like I don't want
to just give you condom to say God's speed, but
also like STIs kink BDSM consent boundary, Like, so are
(42:56):
like what are the main buckets to like be again
in I guess are they're like, are there like sex
headlines that you like start with?
Speaker 1 (43:07):
I think that's a cool idea. I think I would
definitely if there are parents who are looking for headlines,
would either say like self pleasure. We're starting with topics
like honest and accurate anatomy, moving beyond pet names, peorn
literacy in there, and then we move on to the interpersonal,
(43:29):
so thinking about partnered sexual interactions. That's where we have
stuff about consent communication. We have stuff about queerness, monogamy,
non monogamy, kind of how the concept of sex impacts
the world, so we talk about and how the world
impacts sex. So we talk about things like sexual racism
(43:53):
and racial fetishism. We talk about sex worker rights and
what sex work is, and so that's kind of how
we've separated things out, and so that I think would
also be that would be a good starting point for
parents if they just wanted like an overview of some
of the general topics that they could hit. Yeah, we've
also written a guide that I could probably send in
(44:15):
a link somewhere. It's sort of like a sex ed
by by age group, like what are the topics that
you probably can and should bring up and win.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
What I love that you said is topics to bring
up because I think and I think about this in
adulthood but also around sex, where like we wait for
the other person to say something before we're like acknowledge
that something is, like there's a problem where there's something
to address. Let me not wait till I find something
to bring this up or wait for them to ask
Like that I get to kind of take the lead
(44:48):
here and bring it up because they're probably not gonna
want to talk to me about this. To get to
totally just having any of this information and like you
can read through and be like, Okay, I like this piece,
I like that pieceful, and then create the conversations around
around them what you think will be best for them.
And and you know, I love My biggest takeaway here
(45:11):
and I have no intention of having kids, but if
I were, my biggest takeaway here is how do you
begin having conversations not necessarily about sex itself, but about
body and consent and body parts from a really young
age so that it's normalized, so that they have that language,
so that when it's time to get into the interpersonal
(45:32):
section of it all, that it doesn't feels as scary
or new because they have a lot of those tools
already as muscles, and then you're just kind of like
adding more components to it as they get older, which
I really which I really really think is such a
stellar and important way to in a way that I
(45:54):
wish happened for me. But you know we're gonna have
it for for this new generation and coming next. So yes,
exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
I've loved having this conversation.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
I yes, I loved talking was great.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
Yeah, got to talk about so much.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Beautiful, beautiful, Well, thank you so much. Tara.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Awesome, thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Well, you know we're hose here, but hose with heart.
So before we part ways, let me speak to yours
first some homekeeping. Make sure you rate, review, and subscribe
to this podcast. It really helps us grow the podcast
and advocate for a more incredible and bigger season two.
You know what I'm saying, and we want that. We
want that. Well, first of all, let me remind you
(46:46):
what I said earlier. A good massage will get you
into any of these holes. I don't know who needs
to hear that, but that is the truth for me,
and I felt important enough to repeat as a takeaway
from today's episode. Okay, now let's talk about some of
the things that we learn from Tara. Sheltering kids from
talking about sex or their body I think prevents them
(47:07):
from being able to advocate for themselves. And so that
is for me, you know, top of the list. If
anyone's ever like, you shouldn't talk to the kids. They're
too young to know, baby, they should be able to
understand how to keep themselves safe, especially as we send
them out into the world and they're not, you know,
under our watch for twenty four hours a day, right,
they that they have some agency that they're given and
(47:30):
gifted that agency. You know, these conversations with youth around
sex and sex education and sex health, you know, are
hard and sometimes weird and awkward, especially given our own
relationships to sex. But I love when she said it
may not be easy, but we pushed anyway because they're
important and they are important because, as we also talked about,
(47:52):
you know, this is curious thing that we do societally
where we don't talk about sex. We don't talk about sex,
and then you know, kids turn eighteen and we hand
them back at condoms and say, you know, go forth,
do your thing, and suddenly they are allowed to be
sexual beings without any information. And I think that's such
an important thing to highlight, these years of being denied
(48:16):
one sexuality and then suddenly having full access to it.
What are you supposed to do with that? And so
as parents, as guardians, as you know, as whoever we
are as the adults, you know, being able to have
conversations about not necessarily sex specifically, but about body and
consent and you know, emotional feelings and emotional connections around
(48:40):
our bodies and interacting with others, and being able to
normalize that language from a young age. As you know,
kids develop is incredibly important and I know that all
of us As Tara said, you know, having to do
the guess work, and how much harm could have been
(49:00):
prevented just by talking right, So, how much could have
been avoided if people just talked to Terry said, if
she was just spoken to about sex, And I'll say
the same for me. There were just so many things
that I didn't know or didn't know to ask, or
didn't know to think about, especially as a queer person.
You know, none of those classes were talking about queer
sex at all. And so if having access to someone
(49:23):
talking about that or a resource to say, oh, like,
this is what you're experiencing, or this is what you
might be experiencing, or this is a version of that
experience that you can like also ask questions about as
a teenager would have been everything. So I think as
adults we get to even though we didn't have that,
we get to create it for the next generation coming up. Also,
(49:47):
I love the term not my kid ism. I think
that's how my mother treated me a lot, whether it
was in ways to shelter me or expectations where it's like, oh,
my kid will not be doing that or participating in that.
And you know, I think what my kid is does,
(50:09):
is we talked about, is prevents us from seeing the
person that our kid is as opposed to the idea
of what our kid is. Right, Like children, kids, teenagers
are people and they have you know, minds of their own,
and they have desires and likes and wants and things
(50:29):
they don't like. And making sure that we're creating space
for them to advocate for themselves, and also understanding that like,
just because my kid has been X, Y and Z
for all these years, does it mean that they aren't
going to be curious about certain things? And so can
I be a safe space where curiosity is allowed. You know,
(50:49):
we love curiosity on here, and I think that there's
such a detriment when we don't and we don't advocate
for curiosity and we don't create space for curiosity to
be a thing that we ourselves can participate in, but
of course our teenagers. I think I've said this about
disruptive curiosity where teenagers. You know, it's when you're a kid,
when you're in your toddler age, asking why and asking
(51:11):
questions is always accepted, But once you enter your teenage years,
there is a way in which it's no longer cool
to ask. It's you have to know everything. And so
I think sex falls into that, because when we start
hitting puberty and you know, the body starts to change,
there is a feeling that you are behind that everyone
else knows, even though we're all experiencing at the same time.
(51:32):
There's a there's a feeling. I remember this that like
everyone else knew what was happening with their bodies and
I didn't, And then there was a shame and a
fear to ask people about it, be at peers, be
it teachers, be it mom. And so I think that
as a parent, if you can just preempt and like,
remember what it was like for you as your body
was changing, or what it was like for you as
(51:53):
you were discovering your sexuality, and what you wish you had,
and what you wish people said to you, and what
you know the in which you wish people were there
for you or or interrupted or intervened or offered support.
And can you do that for others, for your kids
and for your kids, or for any young adults that
(52:14):
you might be a guardian for. All right, Well, I
think that's everything. I would love to hear your takeaways too.
You can email me at tell Me Something Messy at
gmail dot com, or of course, hit me on substack
Brandon call Goodman dot subsac dot com. I love you.
You can find me on Instagram as well at Brandon
Kyle Goodman. You can find our podcasts at tell Me
(52:35):
Something Messy, and you can join our community on the
Messy Monday's substack. When you subscribe, you'll get weekly posts,
recommendations on sex and self and sell much more. Also,
I want to hear from you, so send your topic ideas,
your messy stories, your submissions, your game ideas to tell
Me Something Messy at gmail dot com. You can also
(52:57):
call us at six six nine sixty nine Messy That
is six six' nine six ninety six three seven seven.
Nine rate review and share this podcast with all your
hoe and ASPIRING hoe. Friends really really helps the show,
out all. Right until next, time ask about the politics
of that dick before you make it, spit make sure
(53:18):
they eat the kitty before they beat the, kitty before
fuckation or. Succation. Communication and in case you haven't heard it,
yet today you are so deeply. LOVED i love you.
Bye thank you so much for listening To Tell Me Something.
(53:45):
Messy if you all enjoyed the, show send me episode
to someone else who might like. It Tell Me Something
messy was executive produced By Ali, Perry Gabrielle, collins And Yours.
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They had all the kids in the classroom, like, take
an oreo, chew the oreo and spit it into a
cup and then pass around the cup. And then said, no,
if you have sex with multiple people, you'll be like
this disgusting cup of like chewed up oreos.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
No, that's so traumatic. You know what. This is a
safe space to talk about relationships, love and sex. Now,
let me tell you something messy. Happy Juneteenth. I don't
know when you'll be listening to this, but this episode
comes out on juneteenth. June nineteenth. Baby. Now, if you
(00:38):
don't know what Juneteenth is, girl, what you be in
but listen we educational podcast. I'm gonna help you out. Okay.
It's a holiday celebrated on June nineteenth to commemorate the
emancipation of enslaved people in the US. The holiday was
first celebrated in Texas. We're on that date in eighteen
sixty five. In the aftermath of the Civil War, enslaved
people were declared free under the terms of the eighteenth
(01:00):
sixty two Emancipation Proclamation. Okay, so today it's all about
celebrating the ancestors, my ancestors, the black ancestors. Okay, not
everybody's ancestors, the black ones. Okay, to be clear, Okay,
but of course we have to do it in true
messy style. So today I would like to honor some
hose throughout history whose unapologetic love of life and sex
(01:24):
has paved a path for hose like me and you
to exist today. Okay, let's do it. First Up, First,
hoe is Miss Lucille Bogan, a blues singer who recorded
hits like Shave Him Dry, where she proudly states I
got nipples on my titties big as the end of
(01:45):
my thumb. I got something between my legs that'll make
a dead man come all right, bars spitting bars, okay,
and Shave Him Dry was originally recorded in nineteen thirty five.
Honey Seal Bogan, Miss Lucille Bogan a true oh we
salute Okay. The next so is Maraini, a blues singer
(02:09):
who openly embraced her bisexuality in the nineteen twenties. Ma
was married to a man, but that also didn't stop
her from participating in lesbian parties that is a bisexual honey.
But she was arrested in nineteen twenty five for participating
in an all woman orgy, which gave us her hit
song Prove It on Me Blues, where she proudly stated,
(02:29):
went out last night with a crowd of my friends.
They must have been woman because I don't like no men.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Ma.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Rainie's unapologetic openness with her sexuality was an act of revolution,
especially during a time where blackness and queerness were demonized.
We salute you, my Rainie. And finally, and this one
you better know. Okay you might have know the other ones,
but you better know this one. This is my queen
right here. Artha Kit known as the Temptress of Hollywood,
(02:58):
Eartha's unapologetically sexy approach to life provided inspiration for generations
of bad bitches to come from her hit single Santa
Baby that reminds us even Santa needs to pay to
play to her iconic role as Catwoman that brought Batman
and everyone watch and to their knees. Eartha was known
(03:19):
for her drove of lovers, but also taught us that
we do not need to compromise for love. If y'all
you know the clip I'm talking about. If you don't,
please look it up. Okay. She reminds us that quote
a relationship has to be earned not to be compromised.
For there's nothing in the world more beautiful than falling
in love, but falling in love for the right reason,
(03:42):
for the right purpose, fall in love with yourself and
find someone to share it with. Ay, far she ate
that up, Earth, I ain't that up? Okay. We salute you, Shay,
I fell and Mama's slave to these whole originators. Okay,
shout out to their sisters who were in their hoe bag.
They are why I get to sit here on a
(04:04):
mike and freely talk to you about relationships, love and sex,
speaking of which now it is your team. So this
is the holiday that everyone gets off because right like
now and now I think I believe it's a federal holiday,
so everybody gets off. And I just like to say,
a colleague and I were talking about this, and we really,
I just white people, you should still go to work.
I don't know what white person needs to hear this,
but you should still be at work. Love, Okay. And
(04:28):
and my colleague said this, she said, white folks should
go to work and they should give their pay to
someone black. Amen. Amen, a fam I shay somebody y'all
should go to work and get at pay. To somebody
black absolutely, okay, quite honestly, because where the reparations. Where
are the reparations? Quite honestly, I want my reparations to
(04:49):
come from Delta the airline, because I want I want
free travel and I want to be first class. I
want to be able to you know, just spin a globe,
stop at wherever I want and be like Delta and
they'd be like, yeah, babe, we got you black excellence.
Where you want to go, you know what I'm saying.
And also food, I want food, you know you like
I'm saying, you don't have to send me a check,
but like, give me food. I want the best. I
(05:11):
don't even like. Here's the I don't even want to
go to your restaurant. I want you to door dash
that shit to me. Okay, I'm touch of taurists. I'm
such a fucking taurist. I don't even want to go
to your restaurant because I don't want to be around
people like that. Okay, just just door dash shas shit
to me, okay, And if you could, if you could, love,
I'd like it to still be warm when it gets there.
(05:32):
It's all right. I have a microwave and an air fighter,
so I can heat it up, but partly I would
like you to just make sure that it arrives hot.
Why don't more people have don't like Dominoes create like
a heat oven like travel thing, right, isn't am I crazy?
Or pizza hut one of them? Is that go to
the pizza places they used to. I feel like in
(05:52):
the nineties, maybe it's still true. I don't really order
that much like that. Well, I order all the time,
but not from like specifically Dominoes or other places. But
I remember back in the day Dominoes they were like
advertised they had like the heat oven like cooler thing,
not a cooler, but you know what I'm saying. It
was like the pack the box winning and when you
got to the pizza is still hot. Why don't people
use that anymore? See? Why don't they use that? I
(06:15):
feel like that's that was such a wonderful device because
more often than not, and this is this is, this
is this is such a not a real problem. But
you know, but but let me speak to it. Let
me speak, Let me speak to it. Sometimes the food
of rips and it's cold, you know, I just and
I'll micwave it. I don't mind microwaving it. I don't
(06:36):
mind air frying it. But like I'm just like, oh,
I kind of want I wanted to be warm when
it arrived. I wanted one less step because you know,
I'm at home anyways. Anyways, shout out to door dash man.
You know, maybe maybe y'all get the door dashers, the
the heater things, whatever they're called. They're not called convention ovens, right, no,
(06:56):
because that's a thing that's an actual who I've lost
the rain on this, by the way, Welcome to the show.
I'm your host, Brandon, call good man. Most people call
me messy mom, but you can call me Dama host.
The pizza is always hot. Wait no, no, the pussy's always hot.
The pussy's always in heat for that pepperoni meat. Come on,
come on, that's a hit, just unhinged for you know,
(07:18):
Miss Lucille Bogan and my Rady would be proud because
those a straight bars. Those are straight bars. I don't
care what y'all say. Happy junteen, start the show. Let's go.
Let's get it started with the whole manifesto. Shall we
repeat after me aloud or in your head? Grant me
the serenity to unpack my shame, the courage to heal,
the wisdom to know that sex is not about penetration,
(07:39):
the audacity to advocate for my pleasure and boundaries, the
strength to not call my ex that fuck boy, fuck girl,
or fuck they, for it is better to masturbait by
myself in peace than to let someone play in my
motherfucking face. Let the hommunity say ho helujah. Maybe you
(08:00):
know what that means. It's time for messy mail. As always,
your submissions remain anonymous. This one says, I'm a by
woman dating a by man. I thought it was polyamorous,
but learned that romantically, I'm quite monogamous. I just love
group sex. How do I find people who are interested
in threesomes without sounding like my boyfriend and I saw
(08:20):
you across the bar or being accused of unicorn hunting? Now,
if you haven't heard the term unicorn hunting, it's a
term most often used in discussions about non monogamy and polyamory.
Yea this educational podcast and that's on period, Okay. It
refers to a couple, usually a heterosexual assists man and
woman who seek a bisexual woman to join their relationship.
Typically for sex or a romantic triad. The unicorn label
(08:44):
comes from the idea that this kind of person is
rare and mythical, especially someone willing to equally please and
fit into a couple's dynamic without disrupting it, which is,
you know, not ideal. But my feeling is one I
really love of this realization that you're not necessarily polyamorous,
(09:05):
you're actually monogamous, but you love group sex. That's such
a really important distinction and one that you probably wouldn't
have been able to arrive at without exploring polyamory and
now monogamy. So there's nothing more satisfying to me than
finding more language to help us articulate and express who
(09:26):
we are. And so it sounds like you've found that.
How do you find three sims of that? Sounding like
your boyfriend and I saw you from across the bar. One,
I think just communicating with people that like, it's not
just a thing, like you can say, we're both by
we're both interested in you, and we would like to kicky. Also,
sex parties are a great space. I know that people.
(09:48):
I haven't used it, but Field is an app that
a lot of folks use. I see by couples on Grinder.
You know, a lot of times it's the by man forward,
but sometimes I will see their cis woman partner with
them on there. Not all the time, by the way,
(10:09):
like a couple of times I've seen it. I feel
like the being accused of unicorn hunting is more about perception.
And if you know that's not what you're doing and
that's not your intention, then I wouldn't worry about that.
I would over communicate what you and your partner are
looking for, because there's nothing wrong with a couple looking
(10:30):
for a third That is a beautiful, wonderful experience, and
there are plenty of people who would be down to
be the guest star. Okay, I love personally, I love
being a guest star. Now my thing with three sums.
I've talked about this before because I've been in threesoms
where like one person was super excited about it and
the other person was not. I highly, highly highly do
not recommend that, because it's just because then, like as
(10:53):
the third you, I feel then I'm like taking care of,
Like I can't really let go because like one person
is into with the other person might be into it,
might be scared, but there's like a taken care of
and so I like to make sure that both parties
are equally into it, equally attracted, equally down for it,
equally on board. And it sounds like you are, and
so like I think that there are plenty of people
(11:14):
who would be so down to be a guest star,
but just communicate. I think it's also in your approach, right,
It's not like a swarming my boyfriend or not saw
across the bar. That might work for some, but you know,
I think it's it's being who you are with him.
Maybe it's you approach first or he approaches first, and
you see what the person is into. Some people aren't
(11:35):
into threesomes. Some people are just not gonna be into it,
and that's okay. But I would not worry about the
being accused of unicorn hunting because from your message, it
doesn't sound like that's what you're doing. It just sounds
like you want group sex, and there are plenty of
people who do want group sex for just sex stuff.
A sex party or a party that has a dark
room type vibes are my favorite for those because there's
(11:59):
no it can just be in the moment, there's no
high stakes around it. Obviously there's a privilege in that,
a male privilege in that, so you know, knowing the party,
knowing the space, knowing the people is important. But that's
kind of my favorite way to fight. If I'm gonna
be in a threesome, that's my favorite way to do
(12:20):
it because then you know, we can dance, we can vibe,
and if the dancing is because you know, I love
emotional connection, so the dancing is working, and the dancing
is vibing and the flirting is whatever, then we could,
you know, escalate this to the bedroom. I hope. Answer
to your question, this one says trigger warning, racism, okay work,
(12:40):
which you know we're talking Juneteenth, So here we are.
I asked to have a video call with a guy
before a meet, a basic safety precaution I do for everyone,
and he shut it and us down and said I
was asking a black man to prove his innocence. I'd
love to hear your thoughts. You are so compassionate and
understanding on so many messy things. I think this has
(13:04):
nothing to do with race, And interestingly enough, this person,
in my opinion, I don't know what race you are.
You might be black as well or not black. But this,
you know, you asking for a video call, which is
something that you do often, is not a racial thing.
(13:27):
So I feel like this was an overreach. And quite honestly,
whoever this person is, I don't know, if you had
photos before or you like didn't see photos or whatever,
is not the right partner, because I would want to
do anything as a partner. I would want to do
anything to make a potential partner feel safe and make sure,
(13:48):
like you know, and if safety is like verification, that
is not uncommon, that's not a weird thing, and so
to prove innocence, like you weren't accusing him of anything.
So I think it's all sus And I kind of
think that you you dodged something, whoever this person is,
and you know, I think you you dodged it. So
(14:09):
I wouldn't worry about this. I think it's totally valid
to ask for video calls or you know, voice memos
or you know instagrams like you know, any and baby.
In this modern age, we are getting strangers as hot
as it is or whatever it is, like, we still
meeting strangers and there are still some wild ass strangers
(14:31):
out there, okay, And so I think that whatever you
have to do so that you can like let your
guard down and enjoy the pleasure and the passion, do it,
ask for it. And if the person isn't down to
do it, and for whatever reason they give, that's not
on you, that's on them. So you know, you say okay, work, bye,
and then move on to the next That's what I
(14:53):
think this one says. I love this one. My previous
personal trainer who still works at my gym, came over
this morning after my workout to stretch me. Oh work,
oh oh oh, actually stretch you okay sorry. While he
was on his way out choose on in the entry away,
I dropped to my knees and gave him delicious head. Yes,
(15:15):
I know that's right. He insists on giving me a
massage next time. Oh my god, can I get one too.
I am loving this exchange pleasure for delicious pleasure. Side note,
I love that I don't need anything else from him,
and there's that there's a big chance I won't have
penetrative sex with him. As a heterosexual assist woman, it's
super empowering to just want to give this man head
without feeling like I'm being taken advantage. Of yummy. Fuck, yeah,
(15:38):
that is so yummy. First of all, I love a
trainer fantasy. I've I've had some of those. I've had
some wonderful trainers in my life, and I would you've
never had anything happen, but like, you know, if something did, like,
I wouldn't be mad about it, although most my trainers
have been straight, but I wouldn't be mad about it
because tell me about working out. Ooh, that is like,
(16:00):
haven't done it? I haven't done it, but like sex
right after a workout is I feel that it's an
easy fantasy for me to fulfill. Why haven't I done
that yet? But that is, uh, I have done ooh,
I did do this. I did give head after like
in somebody's car in the gym parking lot after a workout.
And I'm gonna tell you right now, you might you might.
(16:21):
Don't turn it off. Don't turn this off. Don't turn
don't turn this off. The balls were they had that
just worked out smell, which I love. It wasn't it
wasn't ran sid It was just like, oh, you just
worked out, you know, shower yet I sucked the funk
out of that dick. I really did, and it was God,
(16:41):
you know, I'm actually not I don't love public play.
I'll do it sometimes and it feels right whatever, And
we were like parked on aware no one because I
don't want people to see it unconsensually, like that's not
fun to me. Like, but if it's in a space,
like if it's in a dark room or you know,
we're in a gay part of town and it's late
at night on Saturday in an alleyway, you know, I've done
all that that's wine, but that gym energy that like workout,
(17:02):
and we just worked out. We just THEO cardgo, you know,
lifted some weights. Feeling good. Oh yes, please, And I
love that this is this submission, patron. It feels so
empowering and I love that you feel so empowered by it.
And I'll you know, I hope you get that massage.
But let me hear it right now, that massage would
(17:23):
lead for me. For me, Brandon, a massage is gonna
lead to a lot more. That's on period, Like you
miss if you if you massage me correctly, that you
will get anything you want. In fact, I will, I
will make sure that I'm douched in case, because if
that's what you want, you gonna get it. If you
want it, you won't get If you want this stunt,
you won't get it. Like all of my holes are
(17:44):
relaxed when you massage me, and so you could use
any one of them however you want. That's that's just me. Now.
If the massage is bad, that is the quickest way
for my procey to dry up. I'm gonna just say that, Okay.
If the massage I had, I think I've told you
about the sign of bad massage once if a like
she was whispering with her fingers and I hated it.
It was awful, and it really did. It made A
(18:06):
bad massage makes me irate? When's the last time I
used that word? Irate? Honey? Is that right? I rate? Yeah?
Like like upset, irritated? Yeah, baby, Look come on educational podcast.
I know words. Maybe I rate honey. Oh lord, but
a good massage you can get any of these holes.
And that quote me on that this question says help.
(18:36):
My kid is turning into a teenager, and I know
we need to have a sex talk, but I'm not
sure how to have it or where to even begin.
I don't want to just hand him a pack of
condoms and say God speed like my parents did. Tea.
Are there any resources you or the Home Unity can recommend? Well, Patronsino,
what that means? We have a guest. I've brought someone
(18:58):
in to help us answer this question.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Question.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Tara Michaela is a sex educator based in Philadelphia and
New York. She is the founder of the Youths Expert Program,
a nonprofit training program that aims to provide comprehensive sex
education and communications training for teenagers across North America so
they can become their community's sex expert. Her work focuses
primarily on how injustice manifests in sexual interactions. She uses
(19:23):
her social media platforms, written pieces, and public speaking engagements
to connect with her community on these issues. Please help me.
Welcome Tara, Hi, Tara.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Hi, Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
I'm so happy you're part of our messy little community
here teaching us how to swalk our shit. Yes, yes,
what is considered youth? Like? What is the youngest age
that you think that we should be talking to youth
or kids about sex?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah? So we work with ages fourteenth through eighteen.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
But I think a really important of this question is
this idea that sex ed starts when you become a
teenager or when you start puberty, and I don't necessarily
think that's true. We work alongside a lot of youth
sex educators who work with younger age demographics, and I
think a lot of what can help make these conversations
(20:19):
easier for parents is when you start out as early
as you possibly can, creating an environment where these conversations
are a little bit more normal in your household, where
you know your anatomical terms aren't a bad word, Vagina
isn't a dirty word, penis isn't a dirty word. Where
you're talking about consent in like contexts from you know,
(20:42):
getting a hug from grandma and grandpa to what your
you know, young person wants to eat for dinner. There's
a lot of these concepts that I think can range
beyond explicitly partnered sex and are important to bring up
with young people really from the age that they're understanding English.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah. I love on Big a Mouth, the show that
I used to write on, which if you haven't watched
season eight of the final season, it's incredible, But our
main character Nick, his parents are incredibly sex positive and
so like there's this like there's you know, the push
and pull of the embarrassment of a kid being like,
my mom and dad are talking about sex openly, but
I really kind of envy that like that that it
(21:24):
wasn't that for those characters, the for mom and dad
on Big Mouth, that they aren't uncomfortable about sex and
they're not uncomfortable having those conversations with their with their kids.
And so I'm curious what you think, for you know,
a parent, how does a parent become more comfortable talking
about sex, Because I mean I means like, if you're
uncomfortable with sex, then yeah, of course you're going to
(21:46):
be uncomfortable talking to your kids about sex. So maybe
this is the start. Like how do we do you
think get more comfortable talking about sex as adults?
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's it's so normal that
there's going to be a level of anxiety that you experience.
And I think that there's a lot of conversations that
we don't push having these conversations because they're easy, but
we should push having these conversations because they're important. And
I do think as the parent especially, there is some
level of responsibility that's on you to push through the
(22:19):
awkwardness and if your teen is being awkward, like that's
going to happen, and just continue pushing through. But I
do think a part of it is finding community. I
think that the beautiful, wonderful thing about social media, and
there are you know, pros and cons, but I think
one of the greatest things is that you have a
(22:40):
lot more control over your own media intake, and I
think you can surround yourself with people and with parents
who have similar ideologies to you, who are talking about
their conversations with their teens and how they experience that.
I also think in situations where I experience social anxiet
or just anxiety about conversations that I know I need
(23:03):
to have, it can help me a little bit like
planning ahead of time when I think I want to
say and when.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
So there are tips and tricks that you can use.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
But I think generally the sort of overarching point is
that it doesn't have to be easy, but it is important,
and it will get easier with time. Practice absolutely does
make perfect and again, creating an environment where the conversations
are a little bit more normal, I think as the
adult in the situation, that environment is a lot more
(23:34):
in your control.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Than in theirs.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I really love the It may not be easy, but
it's important. That's such a great like North Star, where
you're like, this is gonna beuncomfortable, it's gonna be squeamish.
I don't know what we're gonna be talking about, but
it is important for me to have this conversation because
you know, it is a you know, I'll talk about
my and I would love to know what your experience
of sex education is and why this became so important.
(23:57):
But like for me, sex education and school, I think
I've told this story. We like walked into the room
after like recess, I think this was seventh grade. Mister
Veraldi shout out to mister Araldi's class, and we walked
into our empty classroom and at the front desk was
a wooden like it was a shaft, but it didn't
look like a dick, but it was dick remnants or
(24:21):
like reminiscent of a dick, and we literally like, that's it,
that's a dick. We all screamed, as like you know,
twelve year olds, and then like shortly after, my homeroom
teacher walks in with who he introduces as a nurse
who's like going to teach us about sex education. So
of course we're like, oh, it is a dick work,
and like it was like teaching us how to put
a condom on. And then that was that was it.
(24:43):
That she left, Like that was the extent of it.
And then I went to boarding school in Rome, Georgia.
Shout out to Rome, Georgia, and they, you know, it
was a health class, and they divided the boys and
the girls, which already is a non binary person, I'm
kind of fucking a queer person. But then I to
boys and the girls, and you know, it was it
was an abstinence conversation. We have, you know, there's a
(25:04):
church on our campus and so like we're very Christian
forward religious word, and so the conversation was really about abstinence.
I think there was mention of condoms. But what was
really funny to me at that point, it was my
freshman year in high school, was that I knew of
a bunch of boys in the class were already having sex.
I really know what sex was, certainly didn't know what
queer sex was, but I knew that there were boys
in the class having sex. And so we're being taught abstinence,
(25:27):
but like that's kind of useless. And so I've always
I've always personally had an issue with sex education in
our country, and so I'm really really thrilled that the
program that you're creating is like, no, no, like we
should talk about this totally.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
A lot of that absolutely resonates.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I think people tend to think that the only types
of sex education that we have in this country are
either abstinence only, sex education focusing on smaller communities south
and comprehensive sex ed. But what I've experienced is that
the vast majority of people I meet went through abstinence
plus programs, which are what's that essentially, they will teach
(26:08):
you something like something somewhat like some sort of actual
sex ed content, but the focus is really on abstinence
as the only means of preventing STIs and the only
means of preventing unwanted team pregnancy. And so that's I
(26:30):
think nearly as harmful in considering that the actual sex
ed that you get, for the most part is just
the worst of the worst STI horror stories and how
to use a condom, maybe birth control.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
That's about it.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
There's really never any conversation about consent never any conversation
about queerness.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
There are so many other topics.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So for me, I was raised in Massachusetts, very liberal
area in a very liberal state, and I definitely didn't
get enough out of sex education. But I also know
in being a sex educator, and usually the first thing
people tell me when I tell them I'm a sex
educator is how bad sex it was for them.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
The stories that I hear.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
What's like one of the worst stories. Can you remember
you remember one of the Oh.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
My gosh, there was one where they had all the
kids in the classroom, like take an oreo, chew the
oreo and spit it into a cup and then pass
around the cup and then said, if you have sex
with multiple people, you'll be like this disgusting cup of
like chewed.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Up or no, no, no, yes, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
So oh that's so traumatic.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
It's traumatic. And I hear these stories all the time,
so I I feel like I can't complain and I
and I tend not to because I know that it
could be so much worse. And I know that, especially
now in the face of like the crazy education legislation
that's happening. Yeah that don't say gay bills. The baby
Olivia all of these things that are happening across the US.
(28:08):
But that being said, I definitely didn't get what I needed,
and I definitely grew up feeling like at some point,
I think I started to become sexually active as a
young person, and I was realizing that I was expected
to learn about sex through experience, which felt really backwards
to me, and I just felt like there were all
(28:30):
of these harmful moments that could have absolutely been prevented
in my life if somebody had just talked to me
about sex earlier. It seemed like such a simple solution,
and it was so frustrating that I had to learn
through through guess works, through yeah, through experiences with other
like young people who were also like learning themselves and
(28:52):
like didn't necessarily know about harm prevention or about yeah,
just how to treat others with empathy. I mean, teenagers
are dealing with so many complex things. So that was
kind of where a lot of this started. And then
I was doing adult sex education mostly through like content
creation and writing for different publications, and I kind of
(29:13):
just knew, like, I love what I love what I
was doing, and I know that there were so many
conversations that I was having because people missed those conversations
when they were growing up, right, and they really deserved acts.
We all deserve access to the information. But I knew
I kind of was doing this work for like my
high school self, and I was like, I would so
much rather have had somebody to just talk to me
(29:35):
the way that I'm talking to other people when I
was that age.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, why do you think parents are against talking about
sex or like what would you muse as like the
reason that it like the obstacle of talking about sex.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I think a lot of it goes back to what
I've heard some people called not my kidism, like this
idea that like other kids might be sexually active or
even I might have been thinking about sex at that age,
but like not my kid, like they, I think most
parents would like to think that they know any and
(30:15):
everything about their young person. Yeah, Like, there is kind
of an initial reaction when you think about the concept
of what topics are comfortable to talk about with young people,
Like I think that that's a lot of what we
struggled with when we were first creating the curriculum, was like,
there are topics that increasingly I feel like it's appropriate,
(30:41):
it's socially considered appropriate to talk about with young people,
like things like consent or things like condom use, or
things like periods. And then there are topics that I
think societally are still too taboo to talk about with
young people, things like masturbation, things like orgasm, things like
(31:04):
kink and BDSM, And I always think that last one
is super interesting. We had a video that went kind
of viral that ended up being about our conversations about
kink and BDSM with teens, which I expected.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Kind of a lot of backlash there.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
And the funny thing about that is there's all this
new research coming out around how teens are more and
more often choking one another during sex and how it's
a really unsafe practice if you don't know what you're doing. Yeah,
And so when you think about that and you think
about like the increasingly mainstream representations of BDSM, things like
(31:52):
fifty Shades of Gray. I think fifty Shades of Gray
came out because I'm still gen z. It came out
when I was fifteen, and I saw it in theaters.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
So you're like, I'm watching it.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
I remember seeing it.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, I watched this when I was fifteen. I'm sure
it's just as easy to access now, if not easier, right.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
And yet we're not talking about it.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah, we're not talking about it.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
I mean we had which I know you've worked with
her dB if sex with Sex of a dB. We
were talking about the importance of representation of these things
because you're seeing it in movies, you're seeing it in TV.
Like teens are watching it, youth are watching it, but
they're not necessarily always given the context around it, Which
is how I feel about sex in general, is that
(32:38):
like sex is everywhere, and yet we're not allowed to
talk about it. And so then you end up in
a situation where you know somebody is trying to choke
somebody because it looked hot in that movie, but no
one has stopped to be like, hey babe, that's a
little dangerous, and like, if you're gonna do it, this
is the way that you do. I mean, I love
like me. It's a it's a joke scene of mean girls.
(32:58):
But when she tells them, if you're gonna drink, I'd
rather you do it at home, It's like, yeah, like
I would like, if we're gonna do you have this happen,
I'd rather we like talk about it in the house
as opposed to denying it. That that that not my
kid ism is such a great way to label it.
And it's how I think teens fall through the cracks
(33:20):
or kids fall through the cracks because a parent is
so convinced. Have you watched Forever the Netflix?
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Not yet?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I think you have to watch it. It's so good.
But one of this, one of the main storylines is
that the lead girl a sex tape leaks and she
hasn't told her mother. She's like changed schools. I'm not
giving anything away, but like she has changed schools. Uh.
And and then eventually it's how does she tell her mom?
And I think her mom, who's played by the wonderful
(33:47):
Zosia rock War, is kind of in that not my
kid is the like, would never expect that my kid
would have would be doing anything, let alone videotape it.
And I think that it's Ah. We had Lena on
the Selena the Show and we were talking about the
inability to see your kid, whether they're a kid or
they're an adult. But like a parent, sometimes inability to
(34:08):
see their child as they are as opposed to the
version of them, and perhaps that's what gets lost in
these or that's why some of these conversations don't happen
because we want to see our kid as the non
sexual being and deny that like no, you maybe you
won't be horny doode.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Like yeah, no, yeah, I think we Also we do
this like boxing in sort of where it's like your
sex life is supposed to start at xyz age and
before yes, you are supposed to be free of any
sexual thoughts, sexual feelings whatever. It is so anti like
(34:50):
our actual biology and how humans actually operate, Like yeah,
most people start self simulating at in like infancy, at
like the age of two.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Oh, I used to mass, I'm telling you, I used
to rub my fucking dick on my pillows at like
age three or four, I got like I called out
during like naptime because they put out our cots, and
it was like I didn't know what I was doing,
but I knew it was a way that would make
me relax. Like I would rub my pillow and then
I would like experience you know, euphoria, and then I
(35:21):
would go to sleep. So I was like doing that
at during nap time, like when I was like five
or six or four sorted younger four and I remember
getting caught by miss Angie, Hi, miss Angie, and like
there was a bit of like, you know, just there
was disgust when like it wasn't you know that Instead
of being like, oh, that's natural and kind of approaching
(35:43):
it and are like, hey, maybe let's not do that
right now, there was such a disgust that like I
then adopted that disgust around it, and so then masturbation
became very secret for me, and it's still something in
my adulthood that I'm undoing. But it's like because no
one down to talk to you about your body and
what you're going to feel and pleasure, then you are
(36:06):
usually given a message that something's wrong, and then you
adopt that and then everything becomes secret and shame. And
then I think that's where kids end up sucking up
because no one's forever actually does a great job of
this forever. Like there's a scene where like his dad
is like give some condoms, and like he's like, I'm
not doing that, and his dad is like, take the
fucking condoms. You know, there's like a I'm not going
(36:27):
to deny that you're you know, we never mean to fuck,
but like it happens, right, and so you should be
prepared for it. Yeah, that's a long tangent, but.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
I need to watch.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yes, No, I think that there's there's definitely a way
to as a parent be like that's something that you
do in private, and like let's talk about privacy, and
let's talk about you know what masturbation is.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
And et cetera, et cetera. And then there's one most
of us.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Get, which is just like don't, don't, don't do it,
And it's like, how is that going to translate to
healthy sexuality later on?
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, all of.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
These messages and then suddenly you're allowed to be a
sexual being after being told your entire life that like
that's completely forbid, and like how does that not mess
with your head?
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Oh? Wow, I never thought about that. That's so true. Right,
You're being denied, denied, denied, and then you turn eighteen,
you go to college, and then you're like go off.
But like no one same with drinking, Like no one's
talked to you about it, no one's told you what
alcohol can do. And so you got a bunch of
n yu, you got a bunch of eighteen year olds,
you know, fucking stumbling Third abb because we don't know
(37:37):
what our rebbits.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Are, you know, And I remember, yeah, yeah, no, I
remember all the kids getting the ambulance called absolutely the
beginning of freshman year.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, alcohol poisoning out the ass always because no one
was like, you know, because even the school did it right.
The school is like no drinking, no whatever, but no
and was like, hey, if you are gonna do this,
whether it's drinking or sex or whatever, it is, like,
let's talk through it. I think actually, n y U
two they did. Did you see the Reality show? Did? Yes?
(38:13):
For those listening, there's a there's like a bunch of
incredible talented students that are in Tish that basically create
a like musical sketch show called The Reality Show, and
it kind of touches on all the things I'm triggering.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
It was so.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
So it basically it talks about different things that happened
on campus. It's like a it's like an interactive intro
into campus life. And so one of the things they
talk about are like STI s and where you can
get tested. And I remember that being the first time
that I heard chlamydia, the first time that I heard,
you know, syphilis, heard gonna Rhea and you know, there's
(38:57):
I don't know, this is years ago, but so they
might have shifted how they talk about it. But it
was definitely like the scary part of the show. It
was like you won't get gone right, yeah, and so
like that, but like to have never heard those words before,
to now be hearing it for the first time, and
then for it to then be in the lens of
(39:19):
it's scary. Yeah, that's a mind fuck. That's a mind
fuck for and for anyone, but for sure somebody who's
young and doesn't necessarily feel like they have the space
or or the resources to ask questions.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Yeah, say, with STI stigma, I think especially like how
are you okay? If we're looking at the world, fifty
percent of young people are going to get an STI
before the age of twenty four, And it's like, if
you are one of every two people who gets that diagnosis,
how are you supposed to understand process still be able
(39:55):
to have self worth, self love, self confidence if that's
how we're Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, and then you know what it also does, which
is one of my least things. But like even in adulthood,
when people, you know, people are having especially the queers
and the queer men like and male bodies like or
having unprotected sex. You know, everyone's on prep and whatever,
but like if you get an STI like, I fully
believe in like telling people your sexual partners. I got
(40:23):
this thing, get tested. One. One part of this, I'll
say is I was talking to a friend of mine
who were like, we never get called. Like I've been
in LA for ten years, I you know, have a
decent amount of sex. I have maybe received two calls
in that time. And it's like, and I've definitely had
sdis more than two sdis in that time. And so
it's interesting that there's a shame there. But then also
(40:44):
happens is when you do tell somebody, then there's like
a blaming of you and it's like, no, baby, I
didn't create gonorrhea, like you might have given it to me,
but like it's such a yeah, we don't talk about it,
so nobody knows about it. So then there's just a
lot of reactivity and anger about it. And so that's
why I think, like if you're able to talk to
youth about it, then you have some healthier adults navigating
(41:07):
their sex life as opposed to kind of having a
second adolescence in a way. Right.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
That's also like why I love that our program is
kind of face to face or screen to screen because
we're able to have more nuanced conversations where it's like,
here's what you need to know about STIs.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
But also it's not a death sentence. It's not the
end of the world.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Things are preventable, and we should always try to prioritize
taking care of our health as best as we can.
And also like sometimes people get the common cold or
the flu and we don't pass moral judgments on them,
So why is this so different? Right? And I think
disclosure is a really nuanced and interesting conversation, and we
get to have nuanced in interesting conversations because I think
(41:57):
disclosure is also like, yes, in a perfect world, old
everybody would disclose, and I think most people agree that
it's like the morally right thing to do, but yeah,
it's a lot more complicated than that. There's a lot
of blame and backlash that happens, and it's kind of
easier to sit on your high horse and say, well,
(42:17):
disclosure is something that needs to happen when you're not
necessarily in a position to be disposing things. And then you,
you know, interact with people who actually are and you
realize it can be a lot more complicated than that.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
I have a question for you. So like a parent
comes to you and says, I want to talk about sex.
As this person wrote in with my teenager, what are
you know? Like sex is a huge umbrella. There's so much,
which is why like I understand this, this person who
wrote in like the overwhelm of like I don't want
to just give you condom to say God's speed, but
also like STIs kink BDSM consent boundary, Like, so are
(42:56):
like what are the main buckets to like be again
in I guess are they're like, are there like sex
headlines that you like start with?
Speaker 1 (43:07):
I think that's a cool idea. I think I would
definitely if there are parents who are looking for headlines,
would either say like self pleasure. We're starting with topics
like honest and accurate anatomy, moving beyond pet names, peorn
literacy in there, and then we move on to the interpersonal,
(43:29):
so thinking about partnered sexual interactions. That's where we have
stuff about consent communication. We have stuff about queerness, monogamy,
non monogamy, kind of how the concept of sex impacts
the world, so we talk about and how the world
impacts sex. So we talk about things like sexual racism
(43:53):
and racial fetishism. We talk about sex worker rights and
what sex work is, and so that's kind of how
we've separated things out, and so that I think would
also be that would be a good starting point for
parents if they just wanted like an overview of some
of the general topics that they could hit. Yeah, we've
also written a guide that I could probably send in
(44:15):
a link somewhere. It's sort of like a sex ed
by by age group, like what are the topics that
you probably can and should bring up and win.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
What I love that you said is topics to bring
up because I think and I think about this in
adulthood but also around sex, where like we wait for
the other person to say something before we're like acknowledge
that something is, like there's a problem where there's something
to address. Let me not wait till I find something
to bring this up or wait for them to ask
Like that I get to kind of take the lead
(44:48):
here and bring it up because they're probably not gonna
want to talk to me about this. To get to
totally just having any of this information and like you
can read through and be like, Okay, I like this piece,
I like that pieceful, and then create the conversations around
around them what you think will be best for them.
And and you know, I love My biggest takeaway here
(45:11):
and I have no intention of having kids, but if
I were, my biggest takeaway here is how do you
begin having conversations not necessarily about sex itself, but about
body and consent and body parts from a really young
age so that it's normalized, so that they have that language,
so that when it's time to get into the interpersonal
(45:32):
section of it all, that it doesn't feels as scary
or new because they have a lot of those tools
already as muscles, and then you're just kind of like
adding more components to it as they get older, which
I really which I really really think is such a
stellar and important way to in a way that I
(45:54):
wish happened for me. But you know we're gonna have
it for for this new generation and coming next. So yes,
exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
I've loved having this conversation.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
I yes, I loved talking was great.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
Yeah, got to talk about so much.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Beautiful, beautiful, Well, thank you so much. Tara.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Awesome, thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Well, you know we're hose here, but hose with heart.
So before we part ways, let me speak to yours
first some homekeeping. Make sure you rate, review, and subscribe
to this podcast. It really helps us grow the podcast
and advocate for a more incredible and bigger season two.
You know what I'm saying, and we want that. We
want that. Well, first of all, let me remind you
(46:46):
what I said earlier. A good massage will get you
into any of these holes. I don't know who needs
to hear that, but that is the truth for me,
and I felt important enough to repeat as a takeaway
from today's episode. Okay, now let's talk about some of
the things that we learn from Tara. Sheltering kids from
talking about sex or their body I think prevents them
(47:07):
from being able to advocate for themselves. And so that
is for me, you know, top of the list. If
anyone's ever like, you shouldn't talk to the kids. They're
too young to know, baby, they should be able to
understand how to keep themselves safe, especially as we send
them out into the world and they're not, you know,
under our watch for twenty four hours a day, right,
they that they have some agency that they're given and
(47:30):
gifted that agency. You know, these conversations with youth around
sex and sex education and sex health, you know, are
hard and sometimes weird and awkward, especially given our own
relationships to sex. But I love when she said it
may not be easy, but we pushed anyway because they're
important and they are important because, as we also talked about,
(47:52):
you know, this is curious thing that we do societally
where we don't talk about sex. We don't talk about sex,
and then you know, kids turn eighteen and we hand
them back at condoms and say, you know, go forth,
do your thing, and suddenly they are allowed to be
sexual beings without any information. And I think that's such
an important thing to highlight, these years of being denied
(48:16):
one sexuality and then suddenly having full access to it.
What are you supposed to do with that? And so
as parents, as guardians, as you know, as whoever we
are as the adults, you know, being able to have
conversations about not necessarily sex specifically, but about body and
consent and you know, emotional feelings and emotional connections around
(48:40):
our bodies and interacting with others, and being able to
normalize that language from a young age. As you know,
kids develop is incredibly important and I know that all
of us As Tara said, you know, having to do
the guess work, and how much harm could have been
(49:00):
prevented just by talking right, So, how much could have
been avoided if people just talked to Terry said, if
she was just spoken to about sex, And I'll say
the same for me. There were just so many things
that I didn't know or didn't know to ask, or
didn't know to think about, especially as a queer person.
You know, none of those classes were talking about queer
sex at all. And so if having access to someone
(49:23):
talking about that or a resource to say, oh, like,
this is what you're experiencing, or this is what you
might be experiencing, or this is a version of that
experience that you can like also ask questions about as
a teenager would have been everything. So I think as
adults we get to even though we didn't have that,
we get to create it for the next generation coming up. Also,
(49:47):
I love the term not my kid ism. I think
that's how my mother treated me a lot, whether it
was in ways to shelter me or expectations where it's like, oh,
my kid will not be doing that or participating in that.
And you know, I think what my kid is does,
(50:09):
is we talked about, is prevents us from seeing the
person that our kid is as opposed to the idea
of what our kid is. Right, Like children, kids, teenagers
are people and they have you know, minds of their own,
and they have desires and likes and wants and things
(50:29):
they don't like. And making sure that we're creating space
for them to advocate for themselves, and also understanding that like,
just because my kid has been X, Y and Z
for all these years, does it mean that they aren't
going to be curious about certain things? And so can
I be a safe space where curiosity is allowed. You know,
(50:49):
we love curiosity on here, and I think that there's
such a detriment when we don't and we don't advocate
for curiosity and we don't create space for curiosity to
be a thing that we ourselves can participate in, but
of course our teenagers. I think I've said this about
disruptive curiosity where teenagers. You know, it's when you're a kid,
when you're in your toddler age, asking why and asking
(51:11):
questions is always accepted, But once you enter your teenage years,
there is a way in which it's no longer cool
to ask. It's you have to know everything. And so
I think sex falls into that, because when we start
hitting puberty and you know, the body starts to change,
there is a feeling that you are behind that everyone
else knows, even though we're all experiencing at the same time.
(51:32):
There's a there's a feeling. I remember this that like
everyone else knew what was happening with their bodies and
I didn't, And then there was a shame and a
fear to ask people about it, be at peers, be
it teachers, be it mom. And so I think that
as a parent, if you can just preempt and like,
remember what it was like for you as your body
was changing, or what it was like for you as
(51:53):
you were discovering your sexuality, and what you wish you had,
and what you wish people said to you, and what
you know the in which you wish people were there
for you or or interrupted or intervened or offered support.
And can you do that for others, for your kids
and for your kids, or for any young adults that
(52:14):
you might be a guardian for. All right, Well, I
think that's everything. I would love to hear your takeaways too.
You can email me at tell Me Something Messy at
gmail dot com, or of course, hit me on substack
Brandon call Goodman dot subsac dot com. I love you.
You can find me on Instagram as well at Brandon
Kyle Goodman. You can find our podcasts at tell Me
(52:35):
Something Messy, and you can join our community on the
Messy Monday's substack. When you subscribe, you'll get weekly posts,
recommendations on sex and self and sell much more. Also,
I want to hear from you, so send your topic ideas,
your messy stories, your submissions, your game ideas to tell
Me Something Messy at gmail dot com. You can also
(52:57):
call us at six six nine sixty nine Messy That
is six six' nine six ninety six three seven seven.
Nine rate review and share this podcast with all your
hoe and ASPIRING hoe. Friends really really helps the show,
out all. Right until next, time ask about the politics
of that dick before you make it, spit make sure
(53:18):
they eat the kitty before they beat the, kitty before
fuckation or. Succation. Communication and in case you haven't heard it,
yet today you are so deeply. LOVED i love you.
Bye thank you so much for listening To Tell Me Something.
(53:45):
Messy if you all enjoyed the, show send me episode
to someone else who might like. It Tell Me Something
messy was executive produced By Ali, Perry Gabrielle, collins And Yours.
Truly our producer and editor Is Vince. Dejohnny for more
podcasts From iHeartRadio And The Outspoken, network visit The iHeartRadio
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