November 20, 2025 • 57 mins
Franchesca Ramsey, actress, writer, comedian, and social justice advocate, joins to show to share her stories of love, loss and recovery. Her messy story is one for the record books, which leads to a fantastic conversation about being open and communicative with lovers, friends and family. And no episode is complete without some hilarious messy mail.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to tell Me Something Messy with Brandon, Kyle
Goodman and iHeart podcasts on the Outspoken Network. Talking about relationships,
sex and identity always reminds me that being a human
is messy. So I wanted to create a compassionate space
where we could feel less alone and embrace our mess together,
the funny, the vulnerable, the cringe, and even the kinky,
(00:21):
because every part of who we are matters. So don't
be shy, baby, tell me something messy. Messy patrons, come on, baby,
welcome to the show. I am your messy mom, Brandon
Kyle Goodman, and you know what that means. It is
time for a guest. Now, while they get situated, we
will get our messy. Key Key started with a hoe
manifest stove, so repeat after me aloud or in your head.
(00:44):
Grant me the serenity to unpack my shame, the courage
to heal, the wisdom to know that sex is not
about penetration, the audacity to advocate for my pleasure and
my boundaries, the strength to not call my ex that
fuck boy, fuck girl, or fuck they, for it is
better to masturbate by myself in peace than to let
(01:06):
someone play in my mother fucking face. Let the community
say hollelujah. Today we've got the brilliant Francesco Ramsey in
our messy living room. She's a comedian and activist and
author and the viral queen behind Shit White Girls Say
to Black Girls. She starred and decoded We're on the
nightly Show and wrote the book. Well that escalated quickly,
(01:27):
and now she's a new podcast out every Wednesday on
YouTube called let Me Fix It. Actually, so let Me
fix It period. Okay, she's sharp, she's hilarious, and she's here,
y'all please help me. Welcome Francesca Ramsey him.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I'm not scared. Safe space it is.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I mean, this is a dick neck pillow. You're safe here.
And we named them Donna. I've introduced them all all
to you. Okay, Yes, yes, Donna Richard Sam like from
Sex and the City. Yes, this is Herman the Heart
and this is Kat the clip love that first, right,
you know. And another version of this show, they'll talk
(02:11):
you know what I'm saying, like in the in the
next version, like a Jim Henson's.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Talking musical the Musical Times, Musical Avenue Q.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yes, the show, Yes, Avenue messy, messy avenue. That sounds
better the avenue MESSI.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Wait a second, I just want to produce her credit.
I don't even need lye.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
No, just eat the Yeah. Okay, before we get too far,
let me give you a messy mandate. Okay, and I'm
trying to do it from heart because I have to doing.
This is episode fifty something, so I shouldn't know this,
but I might not. Okay, Okay, we're gonna do together. Okay,
so things get to be on process. Any opinions shared,
I have the right to shift change today, tomorrow, ten
(02:50):
years from now, and oh my god, I'm getting this.
It's if during the kiky something feels too personal or
unintentionally offens, we use the safe words ball, which gives
us the chance pivot and address accordingly. Oh yeah, yeah, great, yeah, Because,
as I always say, if we're talking about football on
this show, something's wrong. This is physic. Shall we put
with a loup breaker? Yeah, let's do it. It's smash
(03:11):
or pass, So I'll give you a prompt. You'll tell
me if you would smash it or pass it. Okay, okay,
smash your past matching couple outfits. Pass? Thank you? Yeah, yeah,
saying that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, because then I'm asking for my partner to have
the same esthetic. Yeah, that's not always the case.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
When I see it on Instagram, I like it aesthetically.
I'm like, oh, that looks cute in the photo. Yeah,
but I don't actually want to be I want public spaces. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I want to take more of like a fifth harmony
approach to my outfits with my partner, you know what
I mean. Like we we look at miss I'm cry myself.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I just want you know what I mean, Like, I
know we all know, we know what you mean.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
We shoppedames, yeah store, Yeah, we all got the theme
and then we went to different were told one color,
you know, and then we.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Figured it out. Yeah. That that was the perfect It
was actually a perfect welcome to the show. You're killing it.
Spatial past talking to strangers in the sauna.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
No, I don't want to talk to somebody in the sauna.
You know, it is already a big deal for me
to be partially clothed space with other people. Yeah, I'm
so proud of myself for being at that space in
my life. Yeah, but I don't want to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I hate when people talk to me in the sauna. Yeah,
it's I hate when they I hate when they talk
to each other. Absolutely, I'm here for the steam, the quiet,
and they're having long loud period. I'm trying to breathe
at a certain age, you know what I'm saying. And
they always just.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Like, well, here's the thing, tell me one thing, Mommy.
I will say, excuse me, can you please?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Thank you? You're the friend I want to be. I
will always I'm always like complishble.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I always say something, Yeah, I am that girl. I
was the girl in the dorm that would leave a
sticky note on your door. You are too loud. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
You are the people that make the world go round better.
Those of us who are quiet are suffering. But like
my mother was like that. We would get into a
cab because it was called and she would be like,
please turn the music off. I don't want to talk
to you. Sorry.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I will just tell you.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
I never want to have a conversation in the uber.
And that's not because I don't respect the driver or
anything like that. It's because it's like my one time
of quiet. But I feel bad saying that I need
to not talk.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I one thousand percent agree with you. I often feel
uncomfortable because the person now knows where I live and
they want to get bucky. Sometimes I will be like, oh,
just draw me off here, and then I'll always I'm like,
I don't where I live. But yeah, I've definitely had
some times where I just have to say I just really.
(06:05):
The thing that's been hard for me to get better
about is to not say sorry, I don't want to talk.
I just I don't want to talk.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Oh, not apologize for it.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Because why am I just? You know, this is I'm
sure the next ride the person want to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I don't want to tell some people want to talk
to some people don't.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, and it was it was. I don't ride in
ubers that often anymore. But I remember coming out here
for pilot season, and every time I would be leaving
an audition that we're auditioning for, I'm like, well, I
didn't book.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
So I don't want to talk.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah, you're a you're an actor, Oh, you're a writer.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
You know. I'm also I don't actually I know. I
know when that when they start launching into like, uh,
career stuff around Hollywood stuff, I'm like, oh, I pretend
I'm not in it because I'm like, you're like.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, I'm al like, you're bottomist. Yeah, that takes the blood,
takes the blood.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Were a vampire? Yeah exactly, but you coming in with
these fancy words. It's great blue bottom she learned. Wow. Okay,
last one smasher past baby talking relationships.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Okay, so look, my inclination is to say past, but
I will say I've been dating people, and I will
be like, like it just it just just my house.
I don't want to be that.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I don't want to I don't want to hear it.
I know, but it happens.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
I know, and I'm grown, but it happens a.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Full grown up.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
What a Why do we do that?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I don't know. Yeah, I don't. I don't do we
do that? I don't feel good about it.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I'm not clear. I'm not saying like I want to add.
When I hear other people do it, I'm like, then
I myself do it.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I actively do it. Yeah, every time, Like every time
I see I'm like, yeah, yeah, so it's a mass.
I guess a smash pass that you won the game? Yeah,
you want my unconditional love and a lollipop?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yes, There so many.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Kinds there are blowpops, there are tootsy pops. There's the
organic ones, which are like especially like less sugar or something,
but they're really tasty.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, a mango tang is it? Yeah? Less sugar I love.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, that's one of less sugarte.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
It looks healthy.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
It looks healthy, and the packaging is hard to come off,
so you know, it's you know great.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
They make you work for it.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
They make you work. Okay. If y'all have prompts, you
can submit it at something messy dot com or you
can email tell me something messy at gmail dot com.
Speaking of py Jessica, can you tell me something messy?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Oh okay, I'll try to give you the most truncated
version of this messy story. It could be long, too messy.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
So I'm a divorcee. Yes, I got divorced in twenty nineteen. Okay,
for context, I was with my ex husband for thirteen years.
So like I got out of that relationship and I
was like, gave it, walks. It sucks, Like I'm did it,
you know, walks, It Fucks's crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
It is a big deal that I said that. I
have like a full blown.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Meltown with Brandon like I can't talk about my sex life,
and I'm like, she fucks, it's great.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Like I went on his shirt if he walks it back.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
You know, that's how That's how I was approaching life. Okay,
So fast forward. I go to a friend's birthday party
and meet this very handsome guy. Didn't think anything about it.
He DMS me, and I'm like, what, Like, I'm just
like not used to men hitting on me. I've been
just like you know, Ball and Chain for thirteen. Yeah,
so I did the adult thing. I asked my friend
(09:27):
whose birthday party it was. I said, Hey, this guy
slid in my DMS like is he cool? Like is
this cool? She's like, yeah, go for it. Long story short,
I guess she had a think for him, and so
she was really mad.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
That we the friend told you that it was okay.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
The friend that I asked, is it okay?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
She then got mad.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
She then got mad, and then she told him this
is like truly so like high school musical. She told
him she's a divorcee that doesn't believe in God because
I guess he was super religious.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
That feels like cololest she's a person who can't have.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
That's what she said him, that's what and he told me.
He was like hey, just so you know, like she
told me this, and I was like what, this is
so messy. So I go to her and I say, hey, like,
what the heck is going on. She's like, oh, I
used to like him whatever. I thought I was over
and I was trying to be you know whatever, and
so I'm trying to reassure my friend. So I'm like, whatever,
(10:24):
I'm not even into him, like he's dumb. Like I
was just, you know, just trying to like massage her ego.
And I was like, look, I choose you every time.
You like, he's done. Why did she tell him I
said he was dumb. He's like, you said I was dumb.
I was like, I would never say you were dumb.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I was like, I definitely said it was dumb, but.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I only said he was dumb. Like I was trying
to be like, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Fine, you know, reassurance.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I was just being like, he's not the love of
my life, Like I'm just in me reads, you know,
living my best divorce life.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, if it walks and whatever, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So I was like I don't want like and then
she told him that I freaking said that why did
she do this? Because she's messy? I guess I don't know.
I mean, we're not friends anymore. I told her. I
was just like because she went. We went back and forth.
It was truly, it was so messy. Yeah, I was like,
I'm too old for this. All this back and forth.
It was like he was texting me and she was
(11:27):
texting me, and I was just like, this is this
is too much for just like a random, random random
I mean like it was fun, whatever, it's not going
to happen again. Never happened again. But I was just like,
I can't go back, like we should talk?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Can you talk in this day? Can we?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
And I was just like I just know it was done.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Also running back and forth that both of them like
coming back and following you.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
The men were texting me and being like I really
want to talk to you, and I was just like,
why not. In the middle, this is I just want.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
To be divorced and like get late, you know, I
mean like I just meant for each other clearly.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I mean, I don't think they ended up together.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
But they had the similar energy.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I don't know. I mean, I don't think he was
a he was a nice guy. It was just I
was just in the phase of, like I just got
divorced and like, yeah, you know, I was faithful in
my marriage. I was truly a like inexperience, which I
think was a part of why we were not a
well matched Yeah, And so when I got out of
that relationship, I was just like, I just want to
have a good time, right, you know what I mean?
(12:28):
And I was I often joke because I grew up
in a predominantly white environment, I didn't know I was
hot till like thirty, isn't it wild?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I realized that you're You're like, oh, I have always
been hot. They just didn't get me. They didn't see it.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I never had a boyfriend. I like didn't lose my
virginity till like I was eighteen years old. It was
just like a traumatic experience. I was just so inexperienced
that when I got out of my divorce, I was like, WHOA,
what's going on? And it was just exciting to get attention.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
And parting with people.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
And it was just so new. I'd never been single
in New York. Yeah, it's like when you're single in
New York, you feel like you're in a movie.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
You own the ship, you.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Riding the train, You're like in love every subway run,
it's playing everywhere, there are leaves flying around just in
you're drinking like.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
It's just you always have some kind of macho always in.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
The divorce, they're like and here is.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
And so like.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I was just so excited that, Like, I mean again,
he was very handsome and nice of ever, but I
was not thinking like, Okay, I'm gonna settle down again.
This is It was just like, oh, this is like
a fling. Yeah, And I was so bummed that that.
I guess I also naively didn't realize that some women
get competitive like that over men. I just never had
that experience. Yeah, And I really took at face value
(13:59):
when I said to her, Hey, is it okay you believe?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I believe? What a concept? I'm always don't believe what
she said? That is, like what that's core value.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
That has been a really eye opening thing for me
as like a newish single person is oftentimes I'll say
to someone like, hey, just let me know if you
don't want to do this or whatever. I'm polly so
like sometimes dominating other people if you have a connection
that you're really into and you don't want to do
this anymore, like just tell me, and everyone's always yeah, yeah, yeah,
and then and then they don't do it.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
It's always like, say what you mean or mean what
you say, but they don't, they.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Don't, they don't, and it's so weird. One time I
went out with this guy, didn't work out, not really
the right fit for me, and then I was like,
all right, well, it was fun getting to know you,
and he said, you're not going to say let's be
friends and I.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Said, no, no, I don't want to be friends.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I don't want to be friends. He was he was,
He was like, can we.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Get on the phone.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I was like why, why?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
What is there talking about?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
He was like, I just I just can't believe that
you're He was like sending me these voice notes, and
I was.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Like, bro, why would you want to be friends with
somebody don't friends?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And I also was just like, I don't think we're
we're not anat romantically. But then I also realized how
much a lot of people say we'd be better as
friends and they don't mean it, because I've had people
say that to me. And then I'm like hey, what's up?
Like when when you're.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Use what's wrong with you? And it's like you said
we be better as friends.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
We'd be better as friends.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
So that was just their like easy partying words, Yeah,
to make themselves like an easy landing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And this was all me being like, am I an alien?
Like I I thought we would be better as friends?
Was a real because I'm some people I've dated.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
One step, but people aren't good at communicating. That's like
what I've really understood and being polly and like continue
to date, you're like, oh wow, when you have a relationship,
you're like, oh, there's a lot of communication here. You
can really see when there's not. And the pattern, the
general pattern is that people are very bad at communicating.
And I don't know if it's like intentional. I mean one,
we're probably not really taught to communicate.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yes, there's that and the conflict of it all, and
like the discomfort people run away from discomfort. Something that
I learned through my divorce that my ex and I
said we were going to try and stay friends. It
didn't work out. We went to therapy together, and through therapy,
(16:17):
I learned that there were so many things I had
not said to him, And there were so many things
he had not said to me because we were afraid
of how it would make us look, or we didn't
want to hurt of the person's feelings, or you had
spun a narrative about how they would respond to the thing,
so you didn't do it. So when I got out
of that relationship, I said, I was never going to
do that again. I and also, like I was introduced
(16:39):
to polyamory, and you have to do so.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
So much talking, communicating, so much talking, so many talks,
so many feelings.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
So many everyone has schedule and everyone has feelings, and like,
and I love a long distance base, I love like
different time zone.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
It's like a whole thing.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
And then I realized, to your point, most people do
not know how to do that, Like monogamous people, friendships, platonic,
the messy, and I told you about like a lot
of people are really bad at saying how they really
feel and saying like I feel a way about this.
Can we talk about it? Yeah, I'm confused about something
that happened. Can I get clarity? I mean, can I
(17:21):
get clarity? I wish more people would just say that
rather than go like you did this thing.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yes, yes, yes, you always you never instead of attacking, like,
be curious to ask the questions.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
About something that happened. And I want to know where
I went wrong, how I could do something differently, how
you felt about it, did what I was I misreading
the situation and aard or it wasn't because sometimes with me,
sometimes someone will say that to me and I'm like, no,
I don't even remember, Like.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I was just having a bad day. It wasn't no idea.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yes, yeah, we're totally cool.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
It's giving somebody grace because it's like, if I'm in
a friendship with you, I'm going tosume best intent. I'm
dating you, I'm going to assume best intent. So the
asking for clarity opposed to making assumptions in spiraling, which
is what we're I don't know, not taught to do,
but I think we learned to do.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, I mean. The other part of it that I
talk about, or I've talked about recently, is that if
you're not asking for clarity, then like the answer doesn't matter,
Like you've decided, You've decided what you wanted to yes,
So like it doesn't matter what I say, You've already
decided that I feel this way or I did this thing,
and you're not actually coming to me and genuinely asking,
(18:28):
and that is a huge red flag.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
A lot of things could be avoided with like I
have say this to my friends all the time, like
just directly, if you're not sure how they feel about you,
just like be direct, because yes, it's scary, but then
you'll have the answer and you'll have autonomy on what
you want to do for better or worse, as opposed
to like swimming in confusion and then making it. It's
like that seems like chaos. Should we do just a
(18:52):
messy mail? Yes, but do say frant I say your name?
Yeah you did? Okay, I felt like I stuttered a
little bit. Okay, us, it's a messy mail. Oh. As
a reminder, your submissions remain anonymous, and if you have
something you want to submit, you go to something messy
dot com and it's fucking anonymous, don't I don't even
know where it came from, which is kind of dangerous,
(19:13):
some a little nervous, but you know, Okay. This one
says I hooked up with someone at a party and
only after did I find out there were my friends
crush Now every time my friend brings them up, I
just nod and smile while screaming internally in my rue
Paul voice. I already done had hers is I guess
the question is should you tell them? But we Yeah,
I would.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Say tell them, tell them, right, I would tell them.
I mean and again, this is so I think antithetical
to what other people's advice would be.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
I think a lot of people would be like take
it to your grave.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, I would say tell them just to say, like, hey,
you're my friend and I really value this relationship. Yeah,
so I'm telling you this because I know you really
like this person. I didn't know that you liked them.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yes, where I hooked up.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yes, I'm not interested in them, Like our friendship is
more important to me than just hope they don't go.
You're a divorce that doesn't believe in God.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Don't believing God? Should also go on the shirt you
must put it in merchant believe in God. I would
buy that short that you ate that up. That's good advice.
(20:29):
I think with anything with friendship, I'm like transparency above anything,
Like just like say the thing and hopefully you have
friends that can hold it, and they're.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Like because if it comes out later, maybe that friendship
will get it will be compromised. And can you blame
them because it is still a lie by omission, it
doesn't matter, but you didn't know that they were the crush.
To be fair, just because it's a crush doesn't mean
that they are suddenly magically off limits. But that person
(20:57):
still will have feelings and if the friendship is important
to you, you should tell them.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yes, I agree, I agree. Great advice. This one says,
I've realized that my deepest, most nourishing relationships are with
my friends. They're the ones who show up for me,
celebrate me, and make me feel seen after burp. It's
so sweet. But whenever I start dating someone, I catch
myself putting those friendships on the back burner, canceling plans,
(21:25):
texting less, making them feel like they're second place. How
do you prioritize platonic love with the same energy we
give to romantic love and make sure friendships stay at
the center of your life?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Ooh, I mean, we'll shout out to you for being
honest about that. I mean, I am of the mind
that we always make time for what's important to us,
and I am a calendar, girly, I put everything when you.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
People not a calendar, isn't it everything?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I basement for the flood.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I'm telling you're supposed to be to day, pull up
the garden. We're supposed to be this, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
I was like, yes, so put it on the carpet,
like yeah, basement flooding. I just took the analogy. I
was like, the whole thing needs to come up.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
That's name. But I will say, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So you start dating somebody, you plan dates with them,
plan dates with your friends. Absolutely do I check it
at the top of the week and be like, what's
your week? Like can I see you on Friday? I mean,
if all of your friends are close, do it with
all of them? Like do a dinner? Have to come over,
Like let's watch a movie, Let's go to the farmer's market,
let's hang by the pool, like I think a lot
(22:45):
of times people think about dating and friendship hangs is
spending money. You don't have to you don't have to
know money, Like you.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Have to come over, go over that. I love a house.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I'm over even like an errand run like oh yes,
let's go to the grocery shop. You know, like just
and then eat after it, like I'll cook something for
you afterwards. Yeah, just set aside time and sometimes it
might just be a phone call or a FaceTime voice no. No,
but you have to take ownership and responsibility. It's is
(23:17):
a cop out to be like, oh my god, just
I'm so in love and blah blah blah, Like yeah,
but when that relationship is over, you're gonna want those
friends to cry on their shoulder. And if I'm in
that position, I'm gonna be pissed and be like, oh, so.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
You can't just leave your friends.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I'm fun when you're single, but when you're in a
relationship and also like maybe invite them to do something
with your partner, You're like, why can't they all be friends?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I think it's I think it's such a choice to
keep your friends centered. And I learned it the hard
way through an emotionally abusive relationship because in that relationship,
you know how abuse works. It starts to isolate you.
And so I was isolated from my friends. And when
I when I got out of the relationship, I had
to rebuild those relationships and I said never again, because
those are the people that I needed one to like
(24:04):
help me see the light and get out of that.
But it's like, oh, those those are just as important
as a romantic relationship. I think Belle hook says, you know,
as I'm a butcher the quote. But as a society,
we tend to put romantic love on a pedestal when
it really is community. Yeah to be And so I
enter all my romantic relationships saying you are not my
bi all end all, You're part of my community, like
(24:25):
my partners and if I had kids, which I won't,
but they are part of the community. But like my
friends matter too. There's this beautiful video of this woman
who decided to not have children older I think, like
in her seventies, and she was like, I've been waiting
my whole life to say this, Like I was happy
to not have kids because her best friend, she said
one her best friend was dying. She said, it wasn't
(24:47):
her husband was dead, it wasn't her kids who were
showing up. It was her friends who showed up, and
like made sure that she was taking.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Care of us women.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, that's also to.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Let me talk about and this is it's like truly
such a passion of mine because I love my friends
so much. Yeah, And I'm very much in like a
romance your friends stage, where like we go out to dinner.
I love gifts. I always buy my friends gifts, whether
I saw this at the store and I thought of you,
or it's your birthday, like let's go get massages. Like
I'm really into the things that you might save for
(25:20):
a romantic partner.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, giving it to your friends. I love that.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
And so I often find that with sis hetmen, not
all some of y'all. A lot of y'all struggle with
that because the things that we prioritize in friendship are
coded as feminine traits, so like talking a lot, and
like sharing about your emotions and being like touchy feely
(25:43):
and stuff, and so a lot of sis het men
reserve that only for partnership, and then when they don't
have partnership they feel starved, and or when they do
have a partner, they.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Pour it everything they don't have somebody else.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
They don't have anybody else, And like when sis hetman
straight men out, their their hang time is about like activities,
drinking in sports or watching sports. Yes, it's not about
like how are you feeling? Tell me what's going on? Yeah,
your hopes and fears and dreams and what's going on
(26:15):
in your relationship or like talking about sex. It's it's
very surface level and so.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So when the real crisis happens, we don't know how
to hold it for each other. Yeah, and you know,
I was talking to my husband about this yesterday because
it's like the chicken and egg where it's like, yes,
that exists, but also I wanted society is to take
I don't know how we do this.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Let me say this in p likes to blame.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, I don't know even if you can blame. But
it's like, oh, but you're not you're not even taught
how to do that. Yeah, and then you grow up
and you're expected to know how to do that and
it's like how.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Well, And to your point about the chicken or the
egg part of it, like there are women that perpetuate
that one A lot of there are moms who tell
their little boy, suck it up, rye, be a man whatever.
There are some. I mean, I I've seen so many
women that are like I don't want a data man
that does that cries blah or two men hug like
(27:08):
pause whatever, Like yeah, So to your question, like it
is a conscientious effort by all of us that needs
to happen. Yes, where I think we need to make
space for cis hat men to say, like I need friends,
I am dealing with stuff. To make therapy accessible unless stigmatize, Yeah,
(27:29):
to encourage people to like say what they need, and
to prioritize friendship because yeah, romantic love is really important,
but I have found at this stage of my life
because my friendships are so deep, like romantic love is
just kind of like a cherry on top. I'm like, yeah, right,
if I have this, but if I don't, like, it's
totally okay.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
I think that that's such a I wish that we
as a siety can move towards that because that is
such I think it's more sustainable. Yeah, I think that
a lot of people feel like they're lacking because they're
not in a romantic relationship. And it's like, no, like,
your life can still be quite expansive and full. I'm
not saying that you shouldn't want a relationship, and I
also understand the privilege that I'm in a romantical relationship,
but it's something that I'm thinking about often where it's like, oh,
I wish that I didn't center that so much growing
(28:11):
up that I really which I do now, but like
saw my friends as the romance is the thing to romance.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I'll also add to that, I see that with women too,
where I see a lot of content now because I'm
a divorce like, I see a lot of content from
like child free women divorces or whatever. And there was
this whole conversation around like weddings where women were like
some woman was like, this is my wedding day. It's
the only time I'll ever get to dress up and
have everything be about me and blah blah blah. And
(28:38):
my response was, and that's the problem, because why are
you making your wedding day the only time that you
get dressed up the only time that you celebrate yourself, Like,
definitely have the wedding that you like. I think if
you are prioritizing that as like it has to be perfect,
no wonder we have Bridezilla's Like, no, when it's my birthday, We're.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Going on a trip off, Yeah, going off.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
I'm getting dressed up. I'm getting a photographer, Like, let's
go out to dinner, Like I'm going to the spa,
I'm getting massages, like I'm giving myself the honeymoon treatment. Yeah,
when I can afford it, sure be fair. But like
I think when people are going I've been spending my
whole life thinking about this one thing, It's like, you
should be living a full life without needing a wedding.
(29:19):
Like a wedding, great, make the wedding whatever you want,
but like, if you are placing so much importance on
this one day, you have the potential to like really
fall hard if you want to. Haven't thought about like
the quality of the marriage and period and what that
actually looks like. You're only thinking about the dress and
the day. And I say this as someone that's been married. Yeah,
(29:41):
and thankfully I didn't look at my wedding in that way.
And I was sad when I got divorced, but I
was like, oh, thank god I didn't spend like fifty
wedding And I'm like, why did I do that?
Speaker 1 (29:51):
I know, when we were trying to plan a wedding,
the chairs were like ten thousand dollars and I was like, oh, no,
we're not doing this. I have student loan.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Everyone's going to stand end up going to a.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Courthouse, which was beautiful. It was me him and our
two best friends and his family zoomed in. It was perfect,
but it was like, oh, the quality of the marriage
is what I care more about than the wedding day.
To your point, it's like we leave the good china
for when the guests come over, or for the china
like serve your fucking red drink in that crystal and
like call it a day. I also think there's something, Oh,
(30:21):
Susan Sarandon, she talks about her approach to like acting.
When she would get rejected, she would always treat herself
to something, so like if she got to know, she
would be like, Okay, well I'm going to gift myself
because like I did a good job and that means
that I'm available for something else. And she was like
even if it's like a little avocado, and that mentality
of like you don't have to wait to be good
(30:44):
to yourself, That you can be good to yourself in
the small moments and the big moments, that you don't
have to like wait for a certain milestone before you celebrate.
That everything is worth your live, babe.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
And even if you think about it, like with holidays
and stuff, like all that's made up make up your
own like the day that I celebrate this.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
This is Sagittarius Taurus Day.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
M H. Who is a friend in your life that
has taught you the greatest lessons? Oh?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I mean my best friend Delawn. I mean it's it's
hard to say that he's taught me lessons specifically, and
I will say. What he has taught me is that
love can look different outside of like a romantic partner.
I this man is my soulmate, trust me. Every time
we go places, people are like, are you guys dating?
And I'm like, if we could, if we could, will
(31:44):
be amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
But he is so good.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
I don't do it for it, want it put a.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Dick in here? Episode pull out the put a dick in.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I was like, I can't do it at so people.
I love him so much. I don't want to get
emotional because I just I just he is the sun,
the moon and the stars. We have the best time together.
(32:23):
We can talk for hours and hours and hours, and
but we can also hang out and say nothing like yeah,
I think he shouldn't just lay on a chair and
just chill.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
When did you realize you had that type of friendship?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
It's so interesting because I met him my freshman year
of college at Michigan and we weren't really friendly, but
my sophomore year we became friends. But then I left
halfway through the year. I changed schools, and I don't
remember this moment, but he remembers all the time that
when I was leaving, he just was like, I can't
believe you're leaving. And I said to him, oh, but
(32:55):
like we're we are, We're doing this, and he was like,
I don't believe this girl. And I flew back to
Michigan to see him in a play that he was in.
He couldn't go home for Christmas. One year, I paid
for his ticket. He came and visited me in Miami.
We just started having this long distance relationship. We were
not in the same state for like seven or eight years,
(33:17):
and we stayed friends. We were traveling across the country
and talking on the phone, and I mean, man, we
were maybe like six or seven years in and I
was like, damn, we have been friends for a really
long time and I can't imagine my life without you.
You are such an integral part of my life and
I'll never forget. He was in come from away on
(33:38):
Broadway and when he got that show, he told me
we were out at dinner. People must have thought I
was crazy because I got up and I was like, my.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Best fucking friend. Yes, I was like, are you okay?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I felt like I was on ridey and I was
so excited for him. And it was such a really
eye opening moment for me in the sense of like, wow,
when his when he has wins, they really feel like
my wins. Yeah, and when he's had a hard time,
(34:10):
I have an I'm like, we got to figured out now,
and then I'm down and vice versa. And you know,
when I went through my divorce, it was so difficult
and he really showed up for me. He like flew
out to be with He was just like, say less,
I'm like, let's we're taking care of this, you know.
So I always find myself when we're laughing and sharing,
(34:33):
I'm like, ugh, everyone deserves this.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Everyone deserves it.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Everyone deserves this. But we've also worked for it. Like
we've had very few times where we didn't see eye
to eye on something and we just talked about it.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yes, we talked about it.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
It wasn't easy, but like we got through it because
the relationship is important, yes, and I'm just not going
to throw away twenty plus years of friendship over any
little thing. We have a podcast together, and when we started,
we said, if this it starts to come between our friendship,
it goes in the trash period. I don't care about
I care about us likes, views, and share it. I
don't care about any of that. It's fun. I'm happy
(35:09):
to do it. But if it starts to become too much,
it's over.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
I love that there's good, great communication there.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Oh, massive communication, massive communication. And I'm so proud of
us for it's our friendship. Through the show and just
through the times that we have had. Those challenges have
just taught me a lot. And I'm always really appreciative
when people say, like, oh, I want a friendship, Like y'all, yes,
I love your friendship.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I always don't know, like I don't know how to
tell people how to create those friendships because I feel
like that's a question I get because I have my
inner circle is really important to me. And one of
my best friends for twenty years is the only friend
that I like, really argue with sometimes, but like that's
how I know we love each other. Because I don't
argue with nobody, and I think this is the person
that I'm willing to have these rights of prepairs.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I agree all the time. Yeah, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
That's a fallacy. Especially again over twenty years, Like there's
going to be some moments and people say, oh my god,
I wish I had a friendship like that. And I
don't know how to tell people to to curate or
create those friendships. I don't know what it is about.
I don't know how you do that, like, because it
wasn't like a, it wasn't an intentional choice. Yeah, but
(36:25):
I think that it's like when you find somebody that
you really vibe with. I think it's not being afraid
to say I love you, yeah, not being afraid to
say I care about you and may I care about this, and.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Also not being afraid to say, like I want to
hang out.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
With you, yeah, I want to spend time with you yea.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Like I remember when you and I met at Lasi's party.
We had such a great time and I was like,
I want used to hang out, like, let's be friends.
And I think people are afraid to be vulnerable in
that way. Yeah, to your point about how do you
make friends. One, you have to be a friend, but
you also have to be willing to like show up.
And I think so many people are quick to say, like,
this was really fun, I'd love to do this again,
and then you never never again. I'm always a one
(37:02):
that's like, what about their's day?
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Because you have.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
I just you used to have to ask, and I
think people are just it again. It makes me sad
that people are afraid for that because I realized, I
just think you're missing out on so much. But sure,
the fear of rejections, that's.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
What you're bringing up. Rejection.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
It's a numbers game, numbers game, like I've I've lost
some friends and some of them haven't even been like
you know, big blow ups, just like time and life
happens and kids and you're on the other side of
the country.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And sometimes for a season. Some people are a lifetime
and yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
If I see them and we catch up, it'll be great.
But they aren't a constant in my life. I saw
this really great analogy about like a sky full of
stars and that that's how your friendships are. That there
are a lot of stars in the sky. They don't
all shine as bright, but they're all there, you know,
and so you have one constellation you see only in
(37:58):
this part of the year, another one's shining all the time,
one's You're north Star. Once I started thinking about my
friendships in that way, I felt a lot better about
the fact that, yeah, I have a good girlfriend that
like maybe we catch up twice a year and they
catch up for like.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Two hours, yes, and it's like a deep connection. Yeah,
it's a.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Great catch up. And if she's in town or if
I'm home, we see each other. And it takes just
saying to people like, hey, this was really great, I
loved meeting you at this party, like let's hang out. Yeah,
and then actually finding the time time yes, like actually.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
A time one of the things that I enjoy doing
when I meet somebody and I think that they're special,
even if I don't have always the time to see
each other, like whenever I think about them, I text
them and just I'm thinking about you, because I think
like that's part of because you know, in this era
we may not be able to be as close, but
like in a year or two year life life, life
is life. Yeah, So being able to just like stay
connected with people and make that effort to say I'm
(38:54):
thinking of you or somebody on my mind. My mother
always taught me that, like if you think of somebody,
send a message or ye'all or something.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I also used I love my calendar, but I use
like the to do list also, So I'll put their
name and then I'll put a date to remind me
to like hit them up. Behind date where I run
into somebody and they're like, I'm so busy, like next
month is better for me, and I'm like cool, cool,
I'll put it in next. I put like October first,
and then October first. I'm like, hey, I'm just checking in.
I remember that you said that September was really busy
(39:21):
for you. Would love to get to see you. These
are days that are good for me. Like I always
say when.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I what I love about that is just on the
receiving end, as you go, oh, this is somebody who cares,
and somebody who cares like that, it's like, oh my
Scooby doo eras go out like this might be a
person that we could have like a really beautiful relationship.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah yeah, I mean I care a lot, and I
there was a long portion of my life where I
felt burdened by how much I can't care like I
care about other people. I care about getting it right,
you know, choosing my words, really carefully standing up for
what I believe in, staying true to my moral I
often is feeling like really burdened by it. But now
(40:01):
I really feel like it's a superpower because when I
show up for my friends, like I love that they say,
oh my God, like, thank you for doing this thing.
Or I did a friend's podcast recently and she said
to me, Oh, I'll never forget when my book was
coming out, you sent me a list of ten things
you wish you'd known when you put out a book.
(40:23):
And I went, I don't remember doing that, but that
sounds like me.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
I definitely put together.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
And she was like, she was like, I just remember
I was so stressed out and it just really helped me.
And I was like, oh, think I love that. I
have a gift drawer. Whenever I see a cute gift
in the wild, I buy two of them and I
put them in the drawer. And if you invite me
to a party, I'm showing up.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
With a gift.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
And I love the feeling of it's a housewarming, it's
a birthday and people are like, you didn't have to
bring me something, and I'm like, no.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
I wanted to. Yeah, there's nothing like like like expressing love, yes,
expressing love and like I care and what if a
small token, big whatever it is, but there's nothing. It
also feels good, like you know you're making somebody else
feel good, but it also feels good to be Oh,
I get to show you that I care, that I'm
glad to be here, that this means somebody.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
I was intentional that I.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, that you're not too like I think it's like
getting away from that I'm too cool. It's like the
cool factor like who gives like yes, love is embarrassing
and my god, wild thank.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
You for saying that. I don't want to put it
all on gen z because I do think there's something
everybody deals, but I do see this like too cool,
Like I don't you know, I don't owe you anything.
No one's entitled to my time. And it's just like okay, sure,
like if you care about somebody, like give them your time,
give them a little extra grace, yes, show them that
(41:52):
you're thinking about them. It's aloof like too cool for
school thing, like I'm a big mush I'm.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Silly and goofy and see like me. Yes, there's nothing
said again, flood the basement with the carpet and the like.
If you tell me, if you like me, you tell
me that you're enjoy our relationship. It's the best. Let
me tell you, girl.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
I often say the most embarrassing thing about my personality
is I'm still attracted to men. But like, one of
the things I don't like about doing men is how
often they're just like you. And I'm like, tell me,
do you like?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Do you like?
Speaker 2 (42:29):
I don't want to text you and be like I
think I'm bothering him, Like that's the worst.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Like just and you don't have to be like, I'm
obsessed with you. If you think about me. Tell me.
If you saw an article that was related something that
we talked about, send it to me. Tell me. Tell
me I look pretty like I'm dressed up and it's
just like yeah, whatever, it's like, No, tell me.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
You look gorgeous, Tell me hot, tell me I look hot.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
I don't want to be with anybody who's like lukewarm,
wishy washing.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
And that is tea. And I will say this, I
will walk away from a lukewarm motherfucker, because we like,
what are we doing? Life is sure? I want energy?
Speaker 2 (43:05):
What's celebrating amazing? There are a lot of people who
want to get on the schedule. There's a rotation, Applications
are being reviewed, we're taking.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
I'm using the mount of time something that the gym.
You better say, like, the review.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Is coming and you're on the chopping block. Tell me
I'm hot on that note.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
M hm, it's still a little aftercare. One last mess.
So I'm gonna asking you like the questions we asked everyone,
and give me one word or full answer. Okay, easy,
psy okay. So which celebrity or fictional character could ruin
your life? And you'd say, thank you.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Oh could ruin my life? Don Draper?
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Oh terrible man, terrible, terrible, terrible man.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
But let me tell you, I almost risked it off
for John Ham. I saw him at a party, and
I party and myself he was like.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
I saw at a party. It was a nighttime and
he was wearing sunglasses at nighttime. It was so but
then you could see through the eyes and he was
just like he looked he didn't he looked like he
was John Ham, but like he was, you know, like
it was just like so cool.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
I'll never forget Fourth of July at the Standard New
York rooftop. I was wasted and I was like I
was with my ex husband and I was like, this
is my past.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
I was like, John Ham is here, I gotta try.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
I wasted.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
I love it. Okay, what's your most controversial food opinion?
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Food opinion? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (44:57):
I don't the guy think ketchup should just not be
a thing, you know.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
I Okay, maybe this isn't controversial, but I think it's
weird when vegan foods try to be like meats really
and they're like, grill up this carrot for just I'm
not eating a.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Tastes like a hot love does not. That's a mushroom love.
That is a must love and I like it. But
that's a mushroom love that is Oh it's what is
the steak when they when they call it a cauliflower
steak or it's cauliflower.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Or there's one where they like it's it's a mushroom
that they put in a taco and they're like, oh,
it takes just like a meat taco.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
No, that's when they do what's the thing the jackfruit
jack jack fruit. They love destressing jack.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Fru jack fruit tastes like meat. It doesn't. It tastes
like jety fruit tastes like jackfruit.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
And that's fine, and that's fine.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
That's that's fine. And if that's what I want, then
that's what I want. If you want to meet I
want to eat meat.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Y'all don't have to. You don't have to play the games.
I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
It just feels weird.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, I'm with you, Okay, what's your most irrational ick?
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Irrational ick? We were talking about this recently and I
don't I don't know if this is irrational, But have
you ever met somebody who mouths what you're saying while
you're talking? Do you know what I'm talking?
Speaker 1 (46:25):
I know exactly.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Well, I don't know why people do this, but I
very weird.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I'm talking, why are you?
Speaker 2 (46:34):
And I'm like trying to finish your sevings a little.
I don't like that. And then maybe that's not irrational.
But that's the only yea is it?
Speaker 1 (46:43):
What's the show you'll defend to the grave even if
it doesn't need defending, Like it could be fabulous, like
Scandal's fabulous. But I'll defend it to the grave.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah, I mean defend to the grave to me, says
that it's bad.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Doesn't have to be bad, it could be great.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Okay, I'm going to pick one that's bad. Okay, great smash.
Did you ever watch that show?
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Terrible?
Speaker 2 (47:00):
That show is terrible.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
I will defend it to the grave. I watched the
Girl was like, she's so good.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Over Meghan hillth god over Meghan. I watched every episode
every I watched every episode, every episode. I was like,
I cannot believe that Catherine McFee is being cast over
Meghan Hilty and they're making her feel so bad about it.
They're making her jump through all of these hoops and
they're like, you're the real Marilynd. No, she's not Meghan Hilty.
(47:33):
Marilyn literally literally yeah, the whole time. But I ate
it up.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
I hate that ship.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
I was really sad when I got camping.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
I was devastated. It was such a great It was
a great choice. Yeah, and I think it holds on
Broadway too. I didn't I didn't need, I didn't need. Whatever.
What is the first song you'd play if you hijack
the ox cord right now?
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Oh? What would I play? Oh, I mean, this is
a song I play all the time. Is Kanada Beer Girl?
Just a great song, Just a great song. That's a
great Have you seen that clip where he's playing in
the basement and there's that girl dancing next to him
and looks like she's on drugs and she came out.
The clip was so viral she came out. She's like,
I was not doing drugs, girl, but like the way
(48:19):
she's dancing there when that song comes on, like.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Oh, this is my ship. Yes, I loves.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
On in my car. I almost get in a car.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Oh yeah, there's someone that the voice her voice.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
I'm just like, yes, hot take. I think the remix
ruined the original song. I really when I listened to
the original, I'm like, this just doesn't hit.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Yeah, the remixes, the remixes it hits. It's good. That's yeah. Okay, okay,
we can go to the same parties. If you could
whisper one messy piece of advice and the world's ear,
what would it be.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Ooh, say what you mean and mean what you say
very straightforward. I mean, truly the thing that I've said
over and over this episode. Yeah, don't say something that
you don't mean.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
Yeah, that's that's important. Yeah. Last question, what do you
love most about yourself?
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Ooh I ooh, this is kind of Can I do
a two partner please? Yeah. I love my sense of humor,
but I also love my commitment to empathy. I really
care about people. Yeah, and I really care about using
my platform for good, trying to make people feel seen. Yeah,
(49:43):
trying to stand up for what's right. But I also
just love to laugh. I love to laugh. Yes, this
has been a perfect example, like I just advent. Oh my,
I wonder how many calories I've.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
I just feel like we've laughed so from the cagalt.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Laugh so much. And I think, especially right now, the
world is a scary, overwhelming place and thing we need
to laugh. Yeah. And so I'm always really thankful when
people say like, oh, I watch your content or I
listen to your show and it made me laugh, because
I know how powerful and important that is. Yes, we
all deserve to like check out for a minute and
(50:20):
just laugh.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Yeah. Well, I've been following you since before we met,
and I tell you that one Yeah you didn't know that,
but your light has always been so bright. And I
don't mean just like your star power, but like your
empathy and your softness. I mean, I went to school
with Dylan Marin, so I discover you and Dylan Dylan's
(50:42):
you know that is a friend, that's that is an angel. Yes,
and so like dakoded and all the stuff that you
were doing and how you were talking about these really
heavy things but with so much compassion and warmth. I
will say, probably is why I'm sitting on this couch.
Like it gave me a blueprint. It gave me a
possibility that was that somebody black and queer and and
(51:03):
could like talk about these things would also still be
inviting and warm. And you are that also in person.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
The best part, you know, when you fall in love
with somebody through their content and then you.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Make a person.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Oh my god, we've had it. We talk about that.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
It's so real. Thank you for saying that. Yeah, that's
always really been important for me. Like what you see
is what you get, Like it's I'm okay. When people
are like I've never liked her, that's fine, I'm like cool,
you would hate me in person worse I'm worse in person.
I am like turn up more purse, more louder. But yeah,
(51:43):
Like it's always been really important to me to just
be authentically myself. And I take that as such a
huge compliment because I think that's your superpower. Also, like
you are so real online and you're so giving to
your audience, and you share your wins, but you share
the messy stuff, you share the losses, and I think
that's we really need more of that, so much artifice,
(52:06):
and I think all of that would help contribute to
folks not being so hard on themselves. Yeah, and feeling
like measuring themselves to this unrealistic standard, just the reality
of like everybody struggles. It's not all win.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
You're not alone, Like we're going to get through this. Yeah, sure,
Well I love you. I love what you're doing, and
thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (52:25):
Oh, thank you so much for having me made it through.
I was such a drum queen. I was doing way
too much and then I said dick like ten times.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Well, you know we're hose here, but hose with heart.
So before we part ways, let me speak to yours.
I have some notes on my little phone here because
Francesca was eat take. She was telling us everything. So
first of all, I love her messy advice, which is
say what you mean and mean what you say. The clarity.
Clarity is so sexy telling people exactly how you're feeling,
(53:11):
and sometimes you don't always know, and so taking a
moment or a beat, taking a pause to really figure
out what am I feeling and to work out what
they call the SFD, your shitty first draft. Sometimes you
got to write the note down. You got to write
it down, you got a voice note it, get it
out of your system a little bit so you can
get really clear about what it is that you're feeling
before you express it. But when you do express it,
(53:32):
say what you mean and mean what you say. I
do love that. What else did I learn? Use the
good China period? What do you wait for? Love? What
do you wait them? Good crystals? Okay, actually hold up
one second. Doesn't even have a China cabinet anymore? China.
My grandmother had a China cabinet, but I ain't see
a China cabinet since. But for those of you who have,
(53:54):
you know your crystal glasses on the top shelf, bring
them bitches down to the bottom shelf. Okay, I want
you to drink your lacroix or your kool aid or
your your sprite out of that that fancy crystal long
stem martini glass. Do it? Okay, use the good china. Okay. Now,
life is celebrating you, see me. I'm excited. Today. Right
(54:18):
now is the time to celebrate living. Okay, it's not.
We're not waiting for some moment to celebrate the fact
that you woke up, that you're here, that you're getting through,
that you're making it through. That's worth celebrating. So use
the damn good china today, okay, and the good sheets.
Put the silk sheets on now, don't fuck around. I'm okay, okay, good.
What else did I learn? You don't have to wait
(54:41):
to be good to yourself. I think so often people
are and I'll include myself in this, not people. We
are often waiting to look a certain way, be a
certain size, have a certain thing, live a certain place
before we treat ourselves with the dignity and the integrity
and the love and the compassion that we deserve. Be
good to yourself right now. The way that you get
(55:02):
to those goals of yours is by being good to
yourself right now. Because I promised you one thing, and
I've learned this people, I've seen people gain a lot
of success and they're still miserable because they never learned
how to be good to themselves. They thought that money
would give them permission to do that, or success or fame,
or you know, losing that much weight or gaining that
(55:24):
much weight would give them permission. No, no, no, those things
don't give you permission. You give your self permission. So
right now, in this moment or every day, find a
moment to really be intentionally good to yourself. It might
mean canceling plants, you know what I'm saying. It might mean,
you know, drinking more water. Hello, somebody, So, I know,
(55:45):
somebody needs to drink some water and not Seltzer. I
know seltz are as cute, but you need to drink
actual flat water. Love Okay, you know. It might mean
going on a little walk. It might mean, you know,
smoking a little joint. Whatever it is. Find ways to
be intentional good to yourself, to take care of yourself,
to love on yourself. I think I've said this on
the show before. One of my favorite quotes or pieces
(56:08):
of advice was from my mentor Ellen Barber, who said,
if you were your own parent, what advice would you
give to yourself right impressing upon me, and I'm impressing
upon you to be your own guardian. And so part
of being your own guardian is treating yourself well. So
be good to yourself. What did you learn? I want
to hear from you, so email me tell Me Something
Messy at gmail dot com and let me know what
were your takeaways from this episode. I love you. Thank
(56:33):
you so much for listening to tell Me Something Messy.
If you all enjoyed the show, send me episode to
someone else you might like it. Tell Me Something Messy
was executive produced by Ali Perry, Gabrielle Collins and Yours Truly.
Our producer and editor is Vince de Johnny. The video
of tell Me Something Messy is produced by Des Lombardo
and a special thank you to Natalie Brandam who helps
me organize and come up with some of this mess
(56:55):
tell Me Something Messy is a production of iHeart Podcasts
on the Outspoken Network. For more podcasts, listen on the
free iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
You're listening to tell Me Something Messy with Brandon, Kyle
Goodman and iHeart podcasts on the Outspoken Network. Talking about relationships,
sex and identity always reminds me that being a human
is messy. So I wanted to create a compassionate space
where we could feel less alone and embrace our mess together,
the funny, the vulnerable, the cringe, and even the kinky,
(00:21):
because every part of who we are matters. So don't
be shy, baby, tell me something messy. Messy patrons, come on, baby,
welcome to the show. I am your messy mom, Brandon
Kyle Goodman, and you know what that means. It is
time for a guest. Now, while they get situated, we
will get our messy. Key Key started with a hoe
manifest stove, so repeat after me aloud or in your head.
(00:44):
Grant me the serenity to unpack my shame, the courage
to heal, the wisdom to know that sex is not
about penetration, the audacity to advocate for my pleasure and
my boundaries, the strength to not call my ex that
fuck boy, fuck girl, or fuck they, for it is
better to masturbate by myself in peace than to let
(01:06):
someone play in my mother fucking face. Let the community
say hollelujah. Today we've got the brilliant Francesco Ramsey in
our messy living room. She's a comedian and activist and
author and the viral queen behind Shit White Girls Say
to Black Girls. She starred and decoded We're on the
nightly Show and wrote the book. Well that escalated quickly,
(01:27):
and now she's a new podcast out every Wednesday on
YouTube called let Me Fix It. Actually, so let Me
fix It period. Okay, she's sharp, she's hilarious, and she's here,
y'all please help me. Welcome Francesca Ramsey him.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I'm not scared. Safe space it is.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I mean, this is a dick neck pillow. You're safe here.
And we named them Donna. I've introduced them all all
to you. Okay, Yes, yes, Donna Richard Sam like from
Sex and the City. Yes, this is Herman the Heart
and this is Kat the clip love that first, right,
you know. And another version of this show, they'll talk
(02:11):
you know what I'm saying, like in the in the
next version, like a Jim Henson's.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Talking musical the Musical Times, Musical Avenue Q.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yes, the show, Yes, Avenue messy, messy avenue. That sounds
better the avenue MESSI.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Wait a second, I just want to produce her credit.
I don't even need lye.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
No, just eat the Yeah. Okay, before we get too far,
let me give you a messy mandate. Okay, and I'm
trying to do it from heart because I have to doing.
This is episode fifty something, so I shouldn't know this,
but I might not. Okay, Okay, we're gonna do together. Okay,
so things get to be on process. Any opinions shared,
I have the right to shift change today, tomorrow, ten
(02:50):
years from now, and oh my god, I'm getting this.
It's if during the kiky something feels too personal or
unintentionally offens, we use the safe words ball, which gives
us the chance pivot and address accordingly. Oh yeah, yeah, great, yeah, Because,
as I always say, if we're talking about football on
this show, something's wrong. This is physic. Shall we put
with a loup breaker? Yeah, let's do it. It's smash
(03:11):
or pass, So I'll give you a prompt. You'll tell
me if you would smash it or pass it. Okay, okay,
smash your past matching couple outfits. Pass? Thank you? Yeah, yeah,
saying that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, because then I'm asking for my partner to have
the same esthetic. Yeah, that's not always the case.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
When I see it on Instagram, I like it aesthetically.
I'm like, oh, that looks cute in the photo. Yeah,
but I don't actually want to be I want public spaces. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I want to take more of like a fifth harmony
approach to my outfits with my partner, you know what
I mean. Like we we look at miss I'm cry myself.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I just want you know what I mean, Like, I
know we all know, we know what you mean.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
We shoppedames, yeah store, Yeah, we all got the theme
and then we went to different were told one color,
you know, and then we.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Figured it out. Yeah. That that was the perfect It
was actually a perfect welcome to the show. You're killing it.
Spatial past talking to strangers in the sauna.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
No, I don't want to talk to somebody in the sauna.
You know, it is already a big deal for me
to be partially clothed space with other people. Yeah, I'm
so proud of myself for being at that space in
my life. Yeah, but I don't want to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I hate when people talk to me in the sauna. Yeah,
it's I hate when they I hate when they talk
to each other. Absolutely, I'm here for the steam, the quiet,
and they're having long loud period. I'm trying to breathe
at a certain age, you know what I'm saying. And
they always just.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Like, well, here's the thing, tell me one thing, Mommy.
I will say, excuse me, can you please?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Thank you? You're the friend I want to be. I
will always I'm always like complishble.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I always say something, Yeah, I am that girl. I
was the girl in the dorm that would leave a
sticky note on your door. You are too loud. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
You are the people that make the world go round better.
Those of us who are quiet are suffering. But like
my mother was like that. We would get into a
cab because it was called and she would be like,
please turn the music off. I don't want to talk
to you. Sorry.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I will just tell you.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
I never want to have a conversation in the uber.
And that's not because I don't respect the driver or
anything like that. It's because it's like my one time
of quiet. But I feel bad saying that I need
to not talk.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I one thousand percent agree with you. I often feel
uncomfortable because the person now knows where I live and
they want to get bucky. Sometimes I will be like, oh,
just draw me off here, and then I'll always I'm like,
I don't where I live. But yeah, I've definitely had
some times where I just have to say I just really.
(06:05):
The thing that's been hard for me to get better
about is to not say sorry, I don't want to talk.
I just I don't want to talk.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Oh, not apologize for it.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Because why am I just? You know, this is I'm
sure the next ride the person want to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I don't want to tell some people want to talk
to some people don't.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, and it was it was. I don't ride in
ubers that often anymore. But I remember coming out here
for pilot season, and every time I would be leaving
an audition that we're auditioning for, I'm like, well, I
didn't book.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
So I don't want to talk.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah, you're a you're an actor, Oh, you're a writer.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
You know. I'm also I don't actually I know. I
know when that when they start launching into like, uh,
career stuff around Hollywood stuff, I'm like, oh, I pretend
I'm not in it because I'm like, you're like.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah, I'm al like, you're bottomist. Yeah, that takes the blood,
takes the blood.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Were a vampire? Yeah exactly, but you coming in with
these fancy words. It's great blue bottom she learned. Wow. Okay,
last one smasher past baby talking relationships.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Okay, so look, my inclination is to say past, but
I will say I've been dating people, and I will
be like, like it just it just just my house.
I don't want to be that.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I don't want to I don't want to hear it.
I know, but it happens.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
I know, and I'm grown, but it happens a.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Full grown up.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
What a Why do we do that?
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I don't know. Yeah, I don't. I don't do we
do that? I don't feel good about it.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I'm not clear. I'm not saying like I want to add.
When I hear other people do it, I'm like, then
I myself do it.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I actively do it. Yeah, every time, Like every time
I see I'm like, yeah, yeah, so it's a mass.
I guess a smash pass that you won the game? Yeah,
you want my unconditional love and a lollipop?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yes, There so many.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Kinds there are blowpops, there are tootsy pops. There's the
organic ones, which are like especially like less sugar or something,
but they're really tasty.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, a mango tang is it? Yeah? Less sugar I love.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, that's one of less sugarte.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
It looks healthy.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
It looks healthy, and the packaging is hard to come off,
so you know, it's you know great.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
They make you work for it.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
They make you work. Okay. If y'all have prompts, you
can submit it at something messy dot com or you
can email tell me something messy at gmail dot com.
Speaking of py Jessica, can you tell me something messy?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Oh okay, I'll try to give you the most truncated
version of this messy story. It could be long, too messy.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
So I'm a divorcee. Yes, I got divorced in twenty nineteen. Okay,
for context, I was with my ex husband for thirteen years.
So like I got out of that relationship and I
was like, gave it, walks. It sucks, Like I'm did it,
you know, walks, It Fucks's crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
It is a big deal that I said that. I
have like a full blown.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Meltown with Brandon like I can't talk about my sex life,
and I'm like, she fucks, it's great.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Like I went on his shirt if he walks it back.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
You know, that's how That's how I was approaching life. Okay,
So fast forward. I go to a friend's birthday party
and meet this very handsome guy. Didn't think anything about it.
He DMS me, and I'm like, what, Like, I'm just
like not used to men hitting on me. I've been
just like you know, Ball and Chain for thirteen. Yeah,
so I did the adult thing. I asked my friend
(09:27):
whose birthday party it was. I said, Hey, this guy
slid in my DMS like is he cool? Like is
this cool? She's like, yeah, go for it. Long story short,
I guess she had a think for him, and so
she was really mad.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
That we the friend told you that it was okay.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
The friend that I asked, is it okay?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
She then got mad.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
She then got mad, and then she told him this
is like truly so like high school musical. She told
him she's a divorcee that doesn't believe in God because
I guess he was super religious.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
That feels like cololest she's a person who can't have.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
That's what she said him, that's what and he told me.
He was like hey, just so you know, like she
told me this, and I was like what, this is
so messy. So I go to her and I say, hey, like,
what the heck is going on. She's like, oh, I
used to like him whatever. I thought I was over
and I was trying to be you know whatever, and
so I'm trying to reassure my friend. So I'm like, whatever,
(10:24):
I'm not even into him, like he's dumb. Like I
was just, you know, just trying to like massage her ego.
And I was like, look, I choose you every time.
You like, he's done. Why did she tell him I
said he was dumb. He's like, you said I was dumb.
I was like, I would never say you were dumb.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I was like, I definitely said it was dumb, but.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I only said he was dumb. Like I was trying
to be like, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Fine, you know, reassurance.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I was just being like, he's not the love of
my life, Like I'm just in me reads, you know,
living my best divorce life.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, if it walks and whatever, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So I was like I don't want like and then
she told him that I freaking said that why did
she do this? Because she's messy? I guess I don't know.
I mean, we're not friends anymore. I told her. I
was just like because she went. We went back and forth.
It was truly, it was so messy. Yeah, I was like,
I'm too old for this. All this back and forth.
It was like he was texting me and she was
(11:27):
texting me, and I was just like, this is this
is too much for just like a random, random random
I mean like it was fun, whatever, it's not going
to happen again. Never happened again. But I was just like,
I can't go back, like we should talk?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Can you talk in this day? Can we?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
And I was just like I just know it was done.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Also running back and forth that both of them like
coming back and following you.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
The men were texting me and being like I really
want to talk to you, and I was just like,
why not. In the middle, this is I just want.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
To be divorced and like get late, you know, I
mean like I just meant for each other clearly.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I mean, I don't think they ended up together.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
But they had the similar energy.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I don't know. I mean, I don't think he was
a he was a nice guy. It was just I
was just in the phase of, like I just got
divorced and like, yeah, you know, I was faithful in
my marriage. I was truly a like inexperience, which I
think was a part of why we were not a
well matched Yeah, And so when I got out of
that relationship, I was just like, I just want to
have a good time, right, you know what I mean?
(12:28):
And I was I often joke because I grew up
in a predominantly white environment, I didn't know I was
hot till like thirty, isn't it wild?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I realized that you're You're like, oh, I have always
been hot. They just didn't get me. They didn't see it.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I never had a boyfriend. I like didn't lose my
virginity till like I was eighteen years old. It was
just like a traumatic experience. I was just so inexperienced
that when I got out of my divorce, I was like, WHOA,
what's going on? And it was just exciting to get attention.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
And parting with people.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
And it was just so new. I'd never been single
in New York. Yeah, it's like when you're single in
New York, you feel like you're in a movie.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
You own the ship, you.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Riding the train, You're like in love every subway run,
it's playing everywhere, there are leaves flying around just in
you're drinking like.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
It's just you always have some kind of macho always in.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
The divorce, they're like and here is.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
And so like.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
I was just so excited that, Like, I mean again,
he was very handsome and nice of ever, but I
was not thinking like, Okay, I'm gonna settle down again.
This is It was just like, oh, this is like
a fling. Yeah, And I was so bummed that that.
I guess I also naively didn't realize that some women
get competitive like that over men. I just never had
that experience. Yeah, And I really took at face value
(13:59):
when I said to her, Hey, is it okay you believe?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I believe? What a concept? I'm always don't believe what
she said? That is, like what that's core value.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
That has been a really eye opening thing for me
as like a newish single person is oftentimes I'll say
to someone like, hey, just let me know if you
don't want to do this or whatever. I'm polly so
like sometimes dominating other people if you have a connection
that you're really into and you don't want to do
this anymore, like just tell me, and everyone's always yeah, yeah, yeah,
and then and then they don't do it.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
It's always like, say what you mean or mean what
you say, but they don't, they.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Don't, they don't, and it's so weird. One time I
went out with this guy, didn't work out, not really
the right fit for me, and then I was like,
all right, well, it was fun getting to know you,
and he said, you're not going to say let's be
friends and I.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Said, no, no, I don't want to be friends.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I don't want to be friends. He was he was,
He was like, can we.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Get on the phone.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I was like why, why?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
What is there talking about?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
He was like, I just I just can't believe that
you're He was like sending me these voice notes, and
I was.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Like, bro, why would you want to be friends with
somebody don't friends?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And I also was just like, I don't think we're
we're not anat romantically. But then I also realized how
much a lot of people say we'd be better as
friends and they don't mean it, because I've had people
say that to me. And then I'm like hey, what's up?
Like when when you're.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Use what's wrong with you? And it's like you said
we be better as friends.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
We'd be better as friends.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
So that was just their like easy partying words, Yeah,
to make themselves like an easy landing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And this was all me being like, am I an alien?
Like I I thought we would be better as friends?
Was a real because I'm some people I've dated.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
One step, but people aren't good at communicating. That's like
what I've really understood and being polly and like continue
to date, you're like, oh wow, when you have a relationship,
you're like, oh, there's a lot of communication here. You
can really see when there's not. And the pattern, the
general pattern is that people are very bad at communicating.
And I don't know if it's like intentional. I mean one,
we're probably not really taught to communicate.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yes, there's that and the conflict of it all, and
like the discomfort people run away from discomfort. Something that
I learned through my divorce that my ex and I
said we were going to try and stay friends. It
didn't work out. We went to therapy together, and through therapy,
(16:17):
I learned that there were so many things I had
not said to him, And there were so many things
he had not said to me because we were afraid
of how it would make us look, or we didn't
want to hurt of the person's feelings, or you had
spun a narrative about how they would respond to the thing,
so you didn't do it. So when I got out
of that relationship, I said, I was never going to
do that again. I and also, like I was introduced
(16:39):
to polyamory, and you have to do so.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
So much talking, communicating, so much talking, so many talks,
so many feelings.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
So many everyone has schedule and everyone has feelings, and like,
and I love a long distance base, I love like
different time zone.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
It's like a whole thing.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
And then I realized, to your point, most people do
not know how to do that, Like monogamous people, friendships, platonic,
the messy, and I told you about like a lot
of people are really bad at saying how they really
feel and saying like I feel a way about this.
Can we talk about it? Yeah, I'm confused about something
that happened. Can I get clarity? I mean, can I
(17:21):
get clarity? I wish more people would just say that
rather than go like you did this thing.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yes, yes, yes, you always you never instead of attacking, like,
be curious to ask the questions.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
About something that happened. And I want to know where
I went wrong, how I could do something differently, how
you felt about it, did what I was I misreading
the situation and aard or it wasn't because sometimes with me,
sometimes someone will say that to me and I'm like, no,
I don't even remember, Like.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I was just having a bad day. It wasn't no idea.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yes, yeah, we're totally cool.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
It's giving somebody grace because it's like, if I'm in
a friendship with you, I'm going tosume best intent. I'm
dating you, I'm going to assume best intent. So the
asking for clarity opposed to making assumptions in spiraling, which
is what we're I don't know, not taught to do,
but I think we learned to do.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah, I mean. The other part of it that I
talk about, or I've talked about recently, is that if
you're not asking for clarity, then like the answer doesn't matter,
Like you've decided, You've decided what you wanted to yes,
So like it doesn't matter what I say, You've already
decided that I feel this way or I did this thing,
and you're not actually coming to me and genuinely asking,
(18:28):
and that is a huge red flag.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
A lot of things could be avoided with like I
have say this to my friends all the time, like
just directly, if you're not sure how they feel about you,
just like be direct, because yes, it's scary, but then
you'll have the answer and you'll have autonomy on what
you want to do for better or worse, as opposed
to like swimming in confusion and then making it. It's
like that seems like chaos. Should we do just a
(18:52):
messy mail? Yes, but do say frant I say your name?
Yeah you did? Okay, I felt like I stuttered a
little bit. Okay, us, it's a messy mail. Oh. As
a reminder, your submissions remain anonymous, and if you have
something you want to submit, you go to something messy
dot com and it's fucking anonymous, don't I don't even
know where it came from, which is kind of dangerous,
(19:13):
some a little nervous, but you know, Okay. This one
says I hooked up with someone at a party and
only after did I find out there were my friends
crush Now every time my friend brings them up, I
just nod and smile while screaming internally in my rue
Paul voice. I already done had hers is I guess
the question is should you tell them? But we Yeah,
I would.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Say tell them, tell them, right, I would tell them.
I mean and again, this is so I think antithetical
to what other people's advice would be.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
I think a lot of people would be like take
it to your grave.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, I would say tell them just to say, like, hey,
you're my friend and I really value this relationship. Yeah,
so I'm telling you this because I know you really
like this person. I didn't know that you liked them.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yes, where I hooked up.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yes, I'm not interested in them, Like our friendship is
more important to me than just hope they don't go.
You're a divorce that doesn't believe in God.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Don't believing God? Should also go on the shirt you
must put it in merchant believe in God. I would
buy that short that you ate that up. That's good advice.
(20:29):
I think with anything with friendship, I'm like transparency above anything,
Like just like say the thing and hopefully you have
friends that can hold it, and they're.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Like because if it comes out later, maybe that friendship
will get it will be compromised. And can you blame
them because it is still a lie by omission, it
doesn't matter, but you didn't know that they were the crush.
To be fair, just because it's a crush doesn't mean
that they are suddenly magically off limits. But that person
(20:57):
still will have feelings and if the friendship is important
to you, you should tell them.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yes, I agree, I agree. Great advice. This one says,
I've realized that my deepest, most nourishing relationships are with
my friends. They're the ones who show up for me,
celebrate me, and make me feel seen after burp. It's
so sweet. But whenever I start dating someone, I catch
myself putting those friendships on the back burner, canceling plans,
(21:25):
texting less, making them feel like they're second place. How
do you prioritize platonic love with the same energy we
give to romantic love and make sure friendships stay at
the center of your life?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Ooh, I mean, we'll shout out to you for being
honest about that. I mean, I am of the mind
that we always make time for what's important to us,
and I am a calendar, girly, I put everything when you.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
People not a calendar, isn't it everything?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I basement for the flood.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I'm telling you're supposed to be to day, pull up
the garden. We're supposed to be this, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
I was like, yes, so put it on the carpet,
like yeah, basement flooding. I just took the analogy. I
was like, the whole thing needs to come up.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
That's name. But I will say, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So you start dating somebody, you plan dates with them,
plan dates with your friends. Absolutely do I check it
at the top of the week and be like, what's
your week? Like can I see you on Friday? I mean,
if all of your friends are close, do it with
all of them? Like do a dinner? Have to come over,
Like let's watch a movie, Let's go to the farmer's market,
let's hang by the pool, like I think a lot
(22:45):
of times people think about dating and friendship hangs is
spending money. You don't have to you don't have to
know money, Like you.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Have to come over, go over that. I love a house.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
I'm over even like an errand run like oh yes,
let's go to the grocery shop. You know, like just
and then eat after it, like I'll cook something for
you afterwards. Yeah, just set aside time and sometimes it
might just be a phone call or a FaceTime voice no. No,
but you have to take ownership and responsibility. It's is
(23:17):
a cop out to be like, oh my god, just
I'm so in love and blah blah blah, Like yeah,
but when that relationship is over, you're gonna want those
friends to cry on their shoulder. And if I'm in
that position, I'm gonna be pissed and be like, oh, so.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
You can't just leave your friends.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I'm fun when you're single, but when you're in a
relationship and also like maybe invite them to do something
with your partner, You're like, why can't they all be friends?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I think it's I think it's such a choice to
keep your friends centered. And I learned it the hard
way through an emotionally abusive relationship because in that relationship,
you know how abuse works. It starts to isolate you.
And so I was isolated from my friends. And when
I when I got out of the relationship, I had
to rebuild those relationships and I said never again, because
those are the people that I needed one to like
(24:04):
help me see the light and get out of that.
But it's like, oh, those those are just as important
as a romantic relationship. I think Belle hook says, you know,
as I'm a butcher the quote. But as a society,
we tend to put romantic love on a pedestal when
it really is community. Yeah to be And so I
enter all my romantic relationships saying you are not my
bi all end all, You're part of my community, like
(24:25):
my partners and if I had kids, which I won't,
but they are part of the community. But like my
friends matter too. There's this beautiful video of this woman
who decided to not have children older I think, like
in her seventies, and she was like, I've been waiting
my whole life to say this, Like I was happy
to not have kids because her best friend, she said
one her best friend was dying. She said, it wasn't
(24:47):
her husband was dead, it wasn't her kids who were
showing up. It was her friends who showed up, and
like made sure that she was taking.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Care of us women.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah, that's also to.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Let me talk about and this is it's like truly
such a passion of mine because I love my friends
so much. Yeah, And I'm very much in like a
romance your friends stage, where like we go out to dinner.
I love gifts. I always buy my friends gifts, whether
I saw this at the store and I thought of you,
or it's your birthday, like let's go get massages. Like
I'm really into the things that you might save for
(25:20):
a romantic partner.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Yeah, giving it to your friends. I love that.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
And so I often find that with sis hetmen, not
all some of y'all. A lot of y'all struggle with
that because the things that we prioritize in friendship are
coded as feminine traits, so like talking a lot, and
like sharing about your emotions and being like touchy feely
(25:43):
and stuff, and so a lot of sis het men
reserve that only for partnership, and then when they don't
have partnership they feel starved, and or when they do
have a partner, they.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Pour it everything they don't have somebody else.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
They don't have anybody else, And like when sis hetman
straight men out, their their hang time is about like activities,
drinking in sports or watching sports. Yes, it's not about
like how are you feeling? Tell me what's going on? Yeah,
your hopes and fears and dreams and what's going on
(26:15):
in your relationship or like talking about sex. It's it's
very surface level and so.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So when the real crisis happens, we don't know how
to hold it for each other. Yeah, and you know,
I was talking to my husband about this yesterday because
it's like the chicken and egg where it's like, yes,
that exists, but also I wanted society is to take
I don't know how we do this.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Let me say this in p likes to blame.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, I don't know even if you can blame. But
it's like, oh, but you're not you're not even taught
how to do that. Yeah, and then you grow up
and you're expected to know how to do that and
it's like how.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Well, And to your point about the chicken or the
egg part of it, like there are women that perpetuate
that one A lot of there are moms who tell
their little boy, suck it up, rye, be a man whatever.
There are some. I mean, I I've seen so many
women that are like I don't want a data man
that does that cries blah or two men hug like
(27:08):
pause whatever, Like yeah, So to your question, like it
is a conscientious effort by all of us that needs
to happen. Yes, where I think we need to make
space for cis hat men to say, like I need friends,
I am dealing with stuff. To make therapy accessible unless stigmatize, Yeah,
(27:29):
to encourage people to like say what they need, and
to prioritize friendship because yeah, romantic love is really important,
but I have found at this stage of my life
because my friendships are so deep, like romantic love is
just kind of like a cherry on top. I'm like, yeah, right,
if I have this, but if I don't, like, it's
totally okay.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
I think that that's such a I wish that we
as a siety can move towards that because that is
such I think it's more sustainable. Yeah, I think that
a lot of people feel like they're lacking because they're
not in a romantic relationship. And it's like, no, like,
your life can still be quite expansive and full. I'm
not saying that you shouldn't want a relationship, and I
also understand the privilege that I'm in a romantical relationship,
but it's something that I'm thinking about often where it's like, oh,
I wish that I didn't center that so much growing
(28:11):
up that I really which I do now, but like
saw my friends as the romance is the thing to romance.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I'll also add to that, I see that with women too,
where I see a lot of content now because I'm
a divorce like, I see a lot of content from
like child free women divorces or whatever. And there was
this whole conversation around like weddings where women were like
some woman was like, this is my wedding day. It's
the only time I'll ever get to dress up and
have everything be about me and blah blah blah. And
(28:38):
my response was, and that's the problem, because why are
you making your wedding day the only time that you
get dressed up the only time that you celebrate yourself, Like,
definitely have the wedding that you like. I think if
you are prioritizing that as like it has to be perfect,
no wonder we have Bridezilla's Like, no, when it's my birthday, We're.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Going on a trip off, Yeah, going off.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
I'm getting dressed up. I'm getting a photographer, Like, let's
go out to dinner, Like I'm going to the spa,
I'm getting massages, like I'm giving myself the honeymoon treatment. Yeah,
when I can afford it, sure be fair. But like
I think when people are going I've been spending my
whole life thinking about this one thing, It's like, you
should be living a full life without needing a wedding.
(29:19):
Like a wedding, great, make the wedding whatever you want,
but like, if you are placing so much importance on
this one day, you have the potential to like really
fall hard if you want to. Haven't thought about like
the quality of the marriage and period and what that
actually looks like. You're only thinking about the dress and
the day. And I say this as someone that's been married. Yeah,
(29:41):
and thankfully I didn't look at my wedding in that way.
And I was sad when I got divorced, but I
was like, oh, thank god I didn't spend like fifty
wedding And I'm like, why did I do that?
Speaker 1 (29:51):
I know, when we were trying to plan a wedding,
the chairs were like ten thousand dollars and I was like, oh, no,
we're not doing this. I have student loan.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Everyone's going to stand end up going to a.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Courthouse, which was beautiful. It was me him and our
two best friends and his family zoomed in. It was perfect,
but it was like, oh, the quality of the marriage
is what I care more about than the wedding day.
To your point, it's like we leave the good china
for when the guests come over, or for the china
like serve your fucking red drink in that crystal and
like call it a day. I also think there's something, Oh,
(30:21):
Susan Sarandon, she talks about her approach to like acting.
When she would get rejected, she would always treat herself
to something, so like if she got to know, she
would be like, Okay, well I'm going to gift myself
because like I did a good job and that means
that I'm available for something else. And she was like
even if it's like a little avocado, and that mentality
of like you don't have to wait to be good
(30:44):
to yourself, That you can be good to yourself in
the small moments and the big moments, that you don't
have to like wait for a certain milestone before you celebrate.
That everything is worth your live, babe.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
And even if you think about it, like with holidays
and stuff, like all that's made up make up your
own like the day that I celebrate this.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
This is Sagittarius Taurus Day.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
M H. Who is a friend in your life that
has taught you the greatest lessons? Oh?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I mean my best friend Delawn. I mean it's it's
hard to say that he's taught me lessons specifically, and
I will say. What he has taught me is that
love can look different outside of like a romantic partner.
I this man is my soulmate, trust me. Every time
we go places, people are like, are you guys dating?
And I'm like, if we could, if we could, will
(31:44):
be amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
But he is so good.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
I don't do it for it, want it put a.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Dick in here? Episode pull out the put a dick in.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I was like, I can't do it at so people.
I love him so much. I don't want to get
emotional because I just I just he is the sun,
the moon and the stars. We have the best time together.
(32:23):
We can talk for hours and hours and hours, and
but we can also hang out and say nothing like yeah,
I think he shouldn't just lay on a chair and
just chill.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
When did you realize you had that type of friendship?
Speaker 2 (32:34):
It's so interesting because I met him my freshman year
of college at Michigan and we weren't really friendly, but
my sophomore year we became friends. But then I left
halfway through the year. I changed schools, and I don't
remember this moment, but he remembers all the time that
when I was leaving, he just was like, I can't
believe you're leaving. And I said to him, oh, but
(32:55):
like we're we are, We're doing this, and he was like,
I don't believe this girl. And I flew back to
Michigan to see him in a play that he was in.
He couldn't go home for Christmas. One year, I paid
for his ticket. He came and visited me in Miami.
We just started having this long distance relationship. We were
not in the same state for like seven or eight years,
(33:17):
and we stayed friends. We were traveling across the country
and talking on the phone, and I mean, man, we
were maybe like six or seven years in and I
was like, damn, we have been friends for a really
long time and I can't imagine my life without you.
You are such an integral part of my life and
I'll never forget. He was in come from away on
(33:38):
Broadway and when he got that show, he told me
we were out at dinner. People must have thought I
was crazy because I got up and I was like, my.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Best fucking friend. Yes, I was like, are you okay?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I felt like I was on ridey and I was
so excited for him. And it was such a really
eye opening moment for me in the sense of like, wow,
when his when he has wins, they really feel like
my wins. Yeah, and when he's had a hard time,
(34:10):
I have an I'm like, we got to figured out now,
and then I'm down and vice versa. And you know,
when I went through my divorce, it was so difficult
and he really showed up for me. He like flew
out to be with He was just like, say less,
I'm like, let's we're taking care of this, you know.
So I always find myself when we're laughing and sharing,
(34:33):
I'm like, ugh, everyone deserves this.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Everyone deserves it.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Everyone deserves this. But we've also worked for it. Like
we've had very few times where we didn't see eye
to eye on something and we just talked about it.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yes, we talked about it.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
It wasn't easy, but like we got through it because
the relationship is important, yes, and I'm just not going
to throw away twenty plus years of friendship over any
little thing. We have a podcast together, and when we started,
we said, if this it starts to come between our friendship,
it goes in the trash period. I don't care about
I care about us likes, views, and share it. I
don't care about any of that. It's fun. I'm happy
(35:09):
to do it. But if it starts to become too much,
it's over.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
I love that there's good, great communication there.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Oh, massive communication, massive communication. And I'm so proud of
us for it's our friendship. Through the show and just
through the times that we have had. Those challenges have
just taught me a lot. And I'm always really appreciative
when people say, like, oh, I want a friendship, Like y'all, yes,
I love your friendship.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I always don't know, like I don't know how to
tell people how to create those friendships because I feel
like that's a question I get because I have my
inner circle is really important to me. And one of
my best friends for twenty years is the only friend
that I like, really argue with sometimes, but like that's
how I know we love each other. Because I don't
argue with nobody, and I think this is the person
that I'm willing to have these rights of prepairs.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I agree all the time. Yeah, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
That's a fallacy. Especially again over twenty years, Like there's
going to be some moments and people say, oh my god,
I wish I had a friendship like that. And I
don't know how to tell people to to curate or
create those friendships. I don't know what it is about.
I don't know how you do that, like, because it
wasn't like a, it wasn't an intentional choice. Yeah, but
(36:25):
I think that it's like when you find somebody that
you really vibe with. I think it's not being afraid
to say I love you, yeah, not being afraid to
say I care about you and may I care about this, and.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Also not being afraid to say, like I want to
hang out.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
With you, yeah, I want to spend time with you yea.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Like I remember when you and I met at Lasi's party.
We had such a great time and I was like,
I want used to hang out, like, let's be friends.
And I think people are afraid to be vulnerable in
that way. Yeah, to your point about how do you
make friends. One, you have to be a friend, but
you also have to be willing to like show up.
And I think so many people are quick to say, like,
this was really fun, I'd love to do this again,
and then you never never again. I'm always a one
(37:02):
that's like, what about their's day?
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Because you have.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
I just you used to have to ask, and I
think people are just it again. It makes me sad
that people are afraid for that because I realized, I
just think you're missing out on so much. But sure,
the fear of rejections, that's.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
What you're bringing up. Rejection.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
It's a numbers game, numbers game, like I've I've lost
some friends and some of them haven't even been like
you know, big blow ups, just like time and life
happens and kids and you're on the other side of
the country.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And sometimes for a season. Some people are a lifetime
and yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
If I see them and we catch up, it'll be great.
But they aren't a constant in my life. I saw
this really great analogy about like a sky full of
stars and that that's how your friendships are. That there
are a lot of stars in the sky. They don't
all shine as bright, but they're all there, you know,
and so you have one constellation you see only in
(37:58):
this part of the year, another one's shining all the time,
one's You're north Star. Once I started thinking about my
friendships in that way, I felt a lot better about
the fact that, yeah, I have a good girlfriend that
like maybe we catch up twice a year and they
catch up for like.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Two hours, yes, and it's like a deep connection. Yeah,
it's a.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Great catch up. And if she's in town or if
I'm home, we see each other. And it takes just
saying to people like, hey, this was really great, I
loved meeting you at this party, like let's hang out. Yeah,
and then actually finding the time time yes, like actually.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
A time one of the things that I enjoy doing
when I meet somebody and I think that they're special,
even if I don't have always the time to see
each other, like whenever I think about them, I text
them and just I'm thinking about you, because I think
like that's part of because you know, in this era
we may not be able to be as close, but
like in a year or two year life life, life
is life. Yeah, So being able to just like stay
connected with people and make that effort to say I'm
(38:54):
thinking of you or somebody on my mind. My mother
always taught me that, like if you think of somebody,
send a message or ye'all or something.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I also used I love my calendar, but I use
like the to do list also, So I'll put their
name and then I'll put a date to remind me
to like hit them up. Behind date where I run
into somebody and they're like, I'm so busy, like next
month is better for me, and I'm like cool, cool,
I'll put it in next. I put like October first,
and then October first. I'm like, hey, I'm just checking in.
I remember that you said that September was really busy
(39:21):
for you. Would love to get to see you. These
are days that are good for me. Like I always
say when.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I what I love about that is just on the
receiving end, as you go, oh, this is somebody who cares,
and somebody who cares like that, it's like, oh my
Scooby doo eras go out like this might be a
person that we could have like a really beautiful relationship.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah yeah, I mean I care a lot, and I
there was a long portion of my life where I
felt burdened by how much I can't care like I
care about other people. I care about getting it right,
you know, choosing my words, really carefully standing up for
what I believe in, staying true to my moral I
often is feeling like really burdened by it. But now
(40:01):
I really feel like it's a superpower because when I
show up for my friends, like I love that they say,
oh my God, like, thank you for doing this thing.
Or I did a friend's podcast recently and she said
to me, Oh, I'll never forget when my book was
coming out, you sent me a list of ten things
you wish you'd known when you put out a book.
(40:23):
And I went, I don't remember doing that, but that
sounds like me.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
I definitely put together.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
And she was like, she was like, I just remember
I was so stressed out and it just really helped me.
And I was like, oh, think I love that. I
have a gift drawer. Whenever I see a cute gift
in the wild, I buy two of them and I
put them in the drawer. And if you invite me
to a party, I'm showing up.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
With a gift.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
And I love the feeling of it's a housewarming, it's
a birthday and people are like, you didn't have to
bring me something, and I'm like, no.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
I wanted to. Yeah, there's nothing like like like expressing love, yes,
expressing love and like I care and what if a
small token, big whatever it is, but there's nothing. It
also feels good, like you know you're making somebody else
feel good, but it also feels good to be Oh,
I get to show you that I care, that I'm
glad to be here, that this means somebody.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
I was intentional that I.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, that you're not too like I think it's like
getting away from that I'm too cool. It's like the
cool factor like who gives like yes, love is embarrassing
and my god, wild thank.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
You for saying that. I don't want to put it
all on gen z because I do think there's something
everybody deals, but I do see this like too cool,
Like I don't you know, I don't owe you anything.
No one's entitled to my time. And it's just like okay, sure,
like if you care about somebody, like give them your time,
give them a little extra grace, yes, show them that
(41:52):
you're thinking about them. It's aloof like too cool for
school thing, like I'm a big mush I'm.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Silly and goofy and see like me. Yes, there's nothing
said again, flood the basement with the carpet and the like.
If you tell me, if you like me, you tell
me that you're enjoy our relationship. It's the best. Let
me tell you, girl.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
I often say the most embarrassing thing about my personality
is I'm still attracted to men. But like, one of
the things I don't like about doing men is how
often they're just like you. And I'm like, tell me,
do you like?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Do you like?
Speaker 2 (42:29):
I don't want to text you and be like I
think I'm bothering him, Like that's the worst.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Like just and you don't have to be like, I'm
obsessed with you. If you think about me. Tell me.
If you saw an article that was related something that
we talked about, send it to me. Tell me. Tell
me I look pretty like I'm dressed up and it's
just like yeah, whatever, it's like, No, tell me.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
You look gorgeous, Tell me hot, tell me I look hot.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
I don't want to be with anybody who's like lukewarm,
wishy washing.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
And that is tea. And I will say this, I
will walk away from a lukewarm motherfucker, because we like,
what are we doing? Life is sure? I want energy?
Speaker 2 (43:05):
What's celebrating amazing? There are a lot of people who
want to get on the schedule. There's a rotation, Applications
are being reviewed, we're taking.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
I'm using the mount of time something that the gym.
You better say, like, the review.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Is coming and you're on the chopping block. Tell me
I'm hot on that note.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
M hm, it's still a little aftercare. One last mess.
So I'm gonna asking you like the questions we asked everyone,
and give me one word or full answer. Okay, easy,
psy okay. So which celebrity or fictional character could ruin
your life? And you'd say, thank you.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
Oh could ruin my life? Don Draper?
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Oh terrible man, terrible, terrible, terrible man.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
But let me tell you, I almost risked it off
for John Ham. I saw him at a party, and
I party and myself he was like.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
I saw at a party. It was a nighttime and
he was wearing sunglasses at nighttime. It was so but
then you could see through the eyes and he was
just like he looked he didn't he looked like he
was John Ham, but like he was, you know, like
it was just like so cool.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
I'll never forget Fourth of July at the Standard New
York rooftop. I was wasted and I was like I
was with my ex husband and I was like, this
is my past.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
I was like, John Ham is here, I gotta try.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
I wasted.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
I love it. Okay, what's your most controversial food opinion?
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Food opinion? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (44:57):
I don't the guy think ketchup should just not be
a thing, you know.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
I Okay, maybe this isn't controversial, but I think it's
weird when vegan foods try to be like meats really
and they're like, grill up this carrot for just I'm
not eating a.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Tastes like a hot love does not. That's a mushroom love.
That is a must love and I like it. But
that's a mushroom love that is Oh it's what is
the steak when they when they call it a cauliflower
steak or it's cauliflower.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Or there's one where they like it's it's a mushroom
that they put in a taco and they're like, oh,
it takes just like a meat taco.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
No, that's when they do what's the thing the jackfruit
jack jack fruit. They love destressing jack.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Fru jack fruit tastes like meat. It doesn't. It tastes
like jety fruit tastes like jackfruit.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
And that's fine, and that's fine.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
That's that's fine. And if that's what I want, then
that's what I want. If you want to meet I
want to eat meat.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Y'all don't have to. You don't have to play the games.
I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
It just feels weird.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, I'm with you, Okay, what's your most irrational ick?
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Irrational ick? We were talking about this recently and I
don't I don't know if this is irrational, But have
you ever met somebody who mouths what you're saying while
you're talking? Do you know what I'm talking?
Speaker 1 (46:25):
I know exactly.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Well, I don't know why people do this, but I
very weird.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I'm talking, why are you?
Speaker 2 (46:34):
And I'm like trying to finish your sevings a little.
I don't like that. And then maybe that's not irrational.
But that's the only yea is it?
Speaker 1 (46:43):
What's the show you'll defend to the grave even if
it doesn't need defending, Like it could be fabulous, like
Scandal's fabulous. But I'll defend it to the grave.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah, I mean defend to the grave to me, says
that it's bad.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Doesn't have to be bad, it could be great.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Okay, I'm going to pick one that's bad. Okay, great smash.
Did you ever watch that show?
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Terrible?
Speaker 2 (47:00):
That show is terrible.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
I will defend it to the grave. I watched the
Girl was like, she's so good.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Over Meghan hillth god over Meghan. I watched every episode
every I watched every episode, every episode. I was like,
I cannot believe that Catherine McFee is being cast over
Meghan Hilty and they're making her feel so bad about it.
They're making her jump through all of these hoops and
they're like, you're the real Marilynd. No, she's not Meghan Hilty.
(47:33):
Marilyn literally literally yeah, the whole time. But I ate
it up.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
I hate that ship.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
I was really sad when I got camping.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
I was devastated. It was such a great It was
a great choice. Yeah, and I think it holds on
Broadway too. I didn't I didn't need, I didn't need. Whatever.
What is the first song you'd play if you hijack
the ox cord right now?
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Oh? What would I play? Oh, I mean, this is
a song I play all the time. Is Kanada Beer Girl?
Just a great song, Just a great song. That's a
great Have you seen that clip where he's playing in
the basement and there's that girl dancing next to him
and looks like she's on drugs and she came out.
The clip was so viral she came out. She's like,
I was not doing drugs, girl, but like the way
(48:19):
she's dancing there when that song comes on, like.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
Oh, this is my ship. Yes, I loves.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
On in my car. I almost get in a car.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Oh yeah, there's someone that the voice her voice.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
I'm just like, yes, hot take. I think the remix
ruined the original song. I really when I listened to
the original, I'm like, this just doesn't hit.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Yeah, the remixes, the remixes it hits. It's good. That's yeah. Okay, okay,
we can go to the same parties. If you could
whisper one messy piece of advice and the world's ear,
what would it be.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Ooh, say what you mean and mean what you say
very straightforward. I mean, truly the thing that I've said
over and over this episode. Yeah, don't say something that
you don't mean.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
Yeah, that's that's important. Yeah. Last question, what do you
love most about yourself?
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Ooh I ooh, this is kind of Can I do
a two partner please? Yeah. I love my sense of humor,
but I also love my commitment to empathy. I really
care about people. Yeah, and I really care about using
my platform for good, trying to make people feel seen. Yeah,
(49:43):
trying to stand up for what's right. But I also
just love to laugh. I love to laugh. Yes, this
has been a perfect example, like I just advent. Oh my,
I wonder how many calories I've.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
I just feel like we've laughed so from the cagalt.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Laugh so much. And I think, especially right now, the
world is a scary, overwhelming place and thing we need
to laugh. Yeah. And so I'm always really thankful when
people say like, oh, I watch your content or I
listen to your show and it made me laugh, because
I know how powerful and important that is. Yes, we
all deserve to like check out for a minute and
(50:20):
just laugh.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Yeah. Well, I've been following you since before we met,
and I tell you that one Yeah you didn't know that,
but your light has always been so bright. And I
don't mean just like your star power, but like your
empathy and your softness. I mean, I went to school
with Dylan Marin, so I discover you and Dylan Dylan's
(50:42):
you know that is a friend, that's that is an angel. Yes,
and so like dakoded and all the stuff that you
were doing and how you were talking about these really
heavy things but with so much compassion and warmth. I
will say, probably is why I'm sitting on this couch.
Like it gave me a blueprint. It gave me a
possibility that was that somebody black and queer and and
(51:03):
could like talk about these things would also still be
inviting and warm. And you are that also in person.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
The best part, you know, when you fall in love
with somebody through their content and then you.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Make a person.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Oh my god, we've had it. We talk about that.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
It's so real. Thank you for saying that. Yeah, that's
always really been important for me. Like what you see
is what you get, Like it's I'm okay. When people
are like I've never liked her, that's fine, I'm like cool,
you would hate me in person worse I'm worse in person.
I am like turn up more purse, more louder. But yeah,
(51:43):
Like it's always been really important to me to just
be authentically myself. And I take that as such a
huge compliment because I think that's your superpower. Also, like
you are so real online and you're so giving to
your audience, and you share your wins, but you share
the messy stuff, you share the losses, and I think
that's we really need more of that, so much artifice,
(52:06):
and I think all of that would help contribute to
folks not being so hard on themselves. Yeah, and feeling
like measuring themselves to this unrealistic standard, just the reality
of like everybody struggles. It's not all win.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
You're not alone, Like we're going to get through this. Yeah, sure,
Well I love you. I love what you're doing, and
thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (52:25):
Oh, thank you so much for having me made it through.
I was such a drum queen. I was doing way
too much and then I said dick like ten times.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Well, you know we're hose here, but hose with heart.
So before we part ways, let me speak to yours.
I have some notes on my little phone here because
Francesca was eat take. She was telling us everything. So
first of all, I love her messy advice, which is
say what you mean and mean what you say. The clarity.
Clarity is so sexy telling people exactly how you're feeling,
(53:11):
and sometimes you don't always know, and so taking a
moment or a beat, taking a pause to really figure
out what am I feeling and to work out what
they call the SFD, your shitty first draft. Sometimes you
got to write the note down. You got to write
it down, you got a voice note it, get it
out of your system a little bit so you can
get really clear about what it is that you're feeling
before you express it. But when you do express it,
(53:32):
say what you mean and mean what you say. I
do love that. What else did I learn? Use the
good China period? What do you wait for? Love? What
do you wait them? Good crystals? Okay, actually hold up
one second. Doesn't even have a China cabinet anymore? China.
My grandmother had a China cabinet, but I ain't see
a China cabinet since. But for those of you who have,
(53:54):
you know your crystal glasses on the top shelf, bring
them bitches down to the bottom shelf. Okay, I want
you to drink your lacroix or your kool aid or
your your sprite out of that that fancy crystal long
stem martini glass. Do it? Okay, use the good china. Okay. Now,
life is celebrating you, see me. I'm excited. Today. Right
(54:18):
now is the time to celebrate living. Okay, it's not.
We're not waiting for some moment to celebrate the fact
that you woke up, that you're here, that you're getting through,
that you're making it through. That's worth celebrating. So use
the damn good china today, okay, and the good sheets.
Put the silk sheets on now, don't fuck around. I'm okay, okay, good.
What else did I learn? You don't have to wait
(54:41):
to be good to yourself. I think so often people
are and I'll include myself in this, not people. We
are often waiting to look a certain way, be a
certain size, have a certain thing, live a certain place
before we treat ourselves with the dignity and the integrity
and the love and the compassion that we deserve. Be
good to yourself right now. The way that you get
(55:02):
to those goals of yours is by being good to
yourself right now. Because I promised you one thing, and
I've learned this people, I've seen people gain a lot
of success and they're still miserable because they never learned
how to be good to themselves. They thought that money
would give them permission to do that, or success or fame,
or you know, losing that much weight or gaining that
(55:24):
much weight would give them permission. No, no, no, those things
don't give you permission. You give your self permission. So
right now, in this moment or every day, find a
moment to really be intentionally good to yourself. It might
mean canceling plants, you know what I'm saying. It might mean,
you know, drinking more water. Hello, somebody, So, I know,
(55:45):
somebody needs to drink some water and not Seltzer. I
know seltz are as cute, but you need to drink
actual flat water. Love Okay, you know. It might mean
going on a little walk. It might mean, you know,
smoking a little joint. Whatever it is. Find ways to
be intentional good to yourself, to take care of yourself,
to love on yourself. I think I've said this on
the show before. One of my favorite quotes or pieces
(56:08):
of advice was from my mentor Ellen Barber, who said,
if you were your own parent, what advice would you
give to yourself right impressing upon me, and I'm impressing
upon you to be your own guardian. And so part
of being your own guardian is treating yourself well. So
be good to yourself. What did you learn? I want
to hear from you, so email me tell Me Something
Messy at gmail dot com and let me know what
were your takeaways from this episode. I love you. Thank
(56:33):
you so much for listening to tell Me Something Messy.
If you all enjoyed the show, send me episode to
someone else you might like it. Tell Me Something Messy
was executive produced by Ali Perry, Gabrielle Collins and Yours Truly.
Our producer and editor is Vince de Johnny. The video
of tell Me Something Messy is produced by Des Lombardo
and a special thank you to Natalie Brandam who helps
me organize and come up with some of this mess
(56:55):
tell Me Something Messy is a production of iHeart Podcasts
on the Outspoken Network. For more podcasts, listen on the
free iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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