Anchor

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Done done, Hello, and welcome back to another episode of

(00:31):
That's Messed Up.

Speaker 4 (00:32):
I'm Kara Klank and.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
I'm Lisa Traeger and we're here talking SVU True Crime,
no guest, no guest chats, just more chats, which I'm
pretty into. Yeah, I actually, I mean the sickness of
SVU and I AMDB is like it needs to be studied.
I'm watching Sex in the City and I don't know

(00:54):
if you remember when Miranda gets an STD and so
Steve has to go to the free clinic and get
an STD test. The guy that picks up the Q
tip and is like, I need to put this into
the tip of your dick.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
I go.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
He looks familiar. Look him up. Only other credit as SVU,
only other ones. He only has two credits and got
out of the game. But he was in sv It
was Inheritance, which we've done, and he was dow Tran.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
But it's like, what the fuck is wrong with me?

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Like it's it's truly tiny scenes in each and I go,
I know that, man like and then it happened again.
But this is a bigger this is a bigger part.
But who they're hopefully they're leading it up to a Sema.
I don't know if you're watching it just like that,
hopefully you're not.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
And I'm about to start it, but I'm hearing that
it's terrible, So I don't know. I'm about to start it,
but you know, I'm gonna watch it. It's like it
is like comforting to be back in the world. But yeah,
but whatever. There's a really hot gardener.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
So Carrie is hires a sexy gardener and he just
met Sema and they kind of flirted. He is the
psycho I think episodes like you know what. It's like
a bunch of like rich kids and he steals cars
from the garage and then he's actually a poor kid
but a psychopath and he killed the girl.

Speaker 4 (02:10):
The toilet water the toilet water. It's that guy.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Is that not Logan Green or something? No, I don't
know who Logan Green is. He was like, no, Logan
Marshall Green, isn't that him?

Speaker 2 (02:21):
I don't know. I'm sorry, Hawk Gardner Adam Garden. Oh yeah,
played by Logan Marshall. Marshall Green, Yes, he's so hot
and he plays a really good psycho. But here he's
like really sexy and has a beard, and I was
happy to see him out and about working. I think
he's busy, though it seems like, yeah, he's in like
Spider Man. I think he's doing fun. Anyways, he's just

(02:44):
like that. So anyways, that's nice and just like that
Sex in the City SVU roundup.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yes, I am still listen. We're in the time machine here.
I know, like this is all gonna sound like a
little old by the time you guys get this episode
in mid July, but I am just finishing up Secret
Lives of Mormon Wives. I'm almost done. I was very
captivated by the entire season. I took my kids to
go see l e oh the New Pixar.

Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah, I guess it's like the worst performing thing of
all time.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, tell us more. But they didn't market out, they
didn't market I didn't even know that.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
I supposedly spent two hundred fifty million dollars on making
the movie and marketing, and it's like I barely remembered
what it was called like before you know, I just
look up whatever I'm shi playing and I go.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
That's the thing with the kids. Shit, it could be
the worst movie. If it's summer and it's two pm.
You're taking your kids, Yeah, I mean my kids.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
My husband took my kids to go see Gracie and Pedro,
which was like the most off brand, like a cast
of a cast of misfits. I went to see Space Chimps.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
I remember I took my niece and nephews in two
thousand and eight to see Space Chimps Space Chips.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Truly in the summer, especially like if you're just looking
to get out of the heat for like a couple hours.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
Like, I will take my kids to anything. Yeah, really
staye July eighteenth.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
I have such a memory of taking them because it's like, yeah,
we're gonna sit in here.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
When is Wicked for Good coming out, I don't have
to fall. I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Oscar saw the poster when we were there, and he
was really enchanted by it because he keeps thinking Glinda
is a it's coming out November. He keeps thinking Glinda's
a princess, and I'm like trying to explain she's a witch,
and it's really hard for He's like not getting it.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
But she could be a princess witch.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
I mean, and there's yeah, he's like, but she He's
literally going, He's like, but she has a crown. I'm
like yeah, and he's like, and she has a scepter.
And I'm like, Okay, you're right, Yes, you're correct. Oh
my god, I.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Wait, Kristin sorry again old but the NBA Final game,
the game seven, Kristin Chenna word's at the Star Spangle banner. Yeah,
and I heard someone I thought it was bad until
she started hitting those high notes at the end.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
Listen, she was good.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
I think I think most of the men that I
was watching it with did not know who that woman was. Really, yes,
because I saw people by the end when she really
likes catched out this high note and really did it,
they were like, whoa, Okay, she got They were like,
who's this who's this woman? You know?

Speaker 4 (05:07):
But I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
I just assumed you were with gay men. I was like,
they don't know who Christian jennowit is.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
But nobody doing my show in Atlanta, you know, talking
about Luigi and I mentioned Luca the basketball player in
this joke I'm doing, and these three guys are chatting
and I go, oh, do you guys know not know
who Luigi is? And then one of the gay dudes go,
I'm explaining to him who Luca is, Like you, Lucas.

(05:33):
I was like, that's incredible. Yeah, no, I don't know
when Forgood comes out. But you know, also Arianna and
like Cynthia a few weeks back where judges on All
Stars Drag Race, so like, yes, yes, all.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
The pictures of my friends that right on it were
posting up their personal pictures with them.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
But it's coming out in November.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
It's coming out Thanksgiving time, and I just looked it up.
Oh okay, And that's also when Zutopia too is coming out,
and I'm excited.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
People are excited well because you know, on Summer House
there was like a wild party night and then all
the boys ended up in a bed outside watching Zutopia
on a laptop together and it was like a wholesome moment.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Zutopia is a great one. I like the song, the
Shakira song. I like the What's Crazy.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
And it's like jokes people have brought it up online
and it's like you you teach kids all these lessons,
whether it be church, Disney movie, whatever, of like taking
care of each other and the little guy and standing
up to power and being good, and then as soon
as they get old, you're like you fucking liberal tar.

Speaker 4 (06:40):
Right.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
I don't understand it, Like Zuto, I don't understand how
people take their kids to see Zutopia and then vote
Republican and then are like no cops, Like, I don't
get it.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, Zootopia is truly like and it's like an allegory
for how like, okay, allegory crack was desemin into like
black communities. Like it's literally like predators versus like people
going savage. It's like talking about certain animals in a
certain way, like speaking of animals. And maybe it's a

(07:12):
I don't want to check further because I want it
to be true. But a zebra in Tennessee went missing
for eight days. She was on the loose and then
they like had to airlift her back to captivity. But
it's just her flying by a helicopter through the sky.
Oh my god, I guess this is bad to admit,
but I did just spark a joint and it is
four twenty, and that's pretty cool.

Speaker 4 (07:34):
You did it.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
It's like my body knew. My body knew I couldn't
handle it, like it's I'm supposed to be doing something
right now. I was out of town for three weeks
and I didn't smoke it all during the day, Like
I just didn't have weed. I wasn't flying it in
out of Mexico. My life was ten times better. I
would say, Oh, really an experiment, because I slog through life.
When I'm sowed all day, it's like it's more tiring.

(07:56):
You're kind of like holding yourself back in a way
from like doing I still like.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
Go do life, but I don't know how you do though.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
That's the thing, Like that's why I barely smoke weed,
because I can't do life when I do it, So
I have to do it under very specific specific conditions
where I have like nothing to do.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
You know?

Speaker 4 (08:12):
Did you find the zebra? Is it real? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (08:15):
I saw it. This video runaway zebra on the loose
in Tennessee captivates the nation. I don't know, it's gonna
make me watch an ad on YouTube.

Speaker 4 (08:26):
I don't know, but my photos are amazing of this.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, like I wonder, but also the zebra wants sea free.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
But eight days that where was it a runaway pet zebra?
What was it doing?

Speaker 2 (08:41):
I mean there's footage of it just all around town,
skipping down the highway like living life.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
I think it's like, you're not allowed to have a
pet zebra, right, Like I know, but I want one. Oh.
I see the video, Okay, I see it still.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
I see as still of it in the little sack
getting airlifted.

Speaker 4 (08:59):
I see it.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
It's truly wild. Oh my god, I gotta show that
to the kids. They're gonna love that shit.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
I also saw another online thing that's you know, because
I'm looking at this needle point crocheted thing, someone made
me I want a fat beef dog.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
And that was kind of my thing for a while.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, and I watched this series I think I've mentioned
it before, where like it's chefs that are the professionals
at what they do and then they blind taste tests
at home versions. So like pizza chefs were like eating
every frozen pizza on the market and then blindly like
reporting on it and then they all but they're so
good at their jobs. They're like, this is this brand,

(09:39):
this is this brand, Like they do know when they
know the science behind why something works and doesn't it
and then they pick their favorite of the at home brand.
So I've seen dumplings, pizza, pancakes like there's a bunch,
but they had a hot dog one, okay, And it's
not just a preference.

Speaker 4 (09:53):
It's not my Chicago Vienna beef love.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
A beef dog has with a natural casing is the
top hot dog because you want to snap, you want juice,
and you want plump, and you want like this the
color like a deeper color, and pork and chicken are cheaper.
Beef is a more premium meat, and so the cheaper
the hot dog, the more pork, chicken and other shit
is in it and more mechanically separated the odds that ends.

(10:19):
So if it's an all beef dog, it is, it
is just better by in terms of these chefs proved
it to me.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
It wasn't just me. I guess I was right. I'm right.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, look we're a Hebrew national house over here.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
But that was in a hot Chris. But yeah, it's
like a sheep and test that you want. You want
the natural casing has a better snap. But the woman
on this the hot dog episode, she was fantastic she
she got every single one, and she described everything in
such beautiful detail.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Wait, I really want to know what they said of
the pizza. Do you remember which was the best at
home pizza?

Speaker 2 (10:55):
No, but I would say the one shocking thing that
you're gonna be upset about hearing is overall for all
of it. There's another food I've done, and I can
send you the link. Like, Trader Joe's always fucks up. Really,
they always hate the Trader joe options, well the vegan
vegetarian always and like they'll be like this tastes of

(11:15):
gluten free, like they just know immediately. Yeah, but yeah,
they really are never happy with the Trader Joe's around
the Dubble and then the chefs are always shop the
chef's like wait what.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
I love this, you know, like cause I love Trader
Joe's pizza. Listen, I don't eat that much Trader Joe's myself.
It's like a lot of stuff I buy for my kids,
you know what I mean, Like we shop there and
then I eat some of the stuff like that some
of the cheese I really like and some of that,
you know whatever, But like my.

Speaker 4 (11:46):
Kids are more eating like the food.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
So the channel well there's also jokes now where it's
like you have to go to Trader Joe's and then
a different store because the Trader Joe's is.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
Just like snacks.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, they don't, and they don't have anything brand name,
Like you want goldfish, you have to buy like their
Cheddar rockets.

Speaker 4 (12:00):
It's not the same. No, So the.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Channel I watched this is epic Epicurious. Epicurious. Yeah I've
heard of that. Oh okay, cool, So yeah you could
watch it. I mean, if you don't want to go
through I watch them.

Speaker 4 (12:11):
I knew.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
I watched another and the mac and cheese one as well.
But the people are very knowledgeable. They really get incredibly
like well versed, and they are like one of them
was just like plump them while you cook them. This
is a ballpark and I know it, you know. But
their favorite actually they liked the Nathans. I'm trying to

(12:33):
think what other and then there was like a fancy brand.
They actually didn't like the Hebrew National, which was upsetting
for me.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Oh yeah, that's like what I ate as a kid.
So that's like what I buy for Oscar. No, Hebrew
kosher is better. All beef is better. It's not just preference.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
It's not just that these fucking science chefs explained why
the beef dog is the best.

Speaker 4 (12:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, Curious has like also recipes, like it's a recipe
site too, so I like I've seen their recipes before.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
Good stuff on.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
She's experts gonna Oh there's one She's expert tries every
trader Joe's cheese. Oh okay, Oh, I've done the frozen
burrito one too. I think I've I think I've watched
a lot of these. Oh and I watched the Ramen one.
That's what got me involved. That's what got me involved.
But let's start. I mean I've talked about Yeah, I
feel like I've been babbling up a fucking storm. I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (13:23):
Yeah, No, that's okay.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Let's get going because we have a big episode for
you today and it's very listen. I liked we recorded
this in a few weeks in advance of the date
that this is coming out, because we're traveling for summer.
But I don't think everything's gonna be cleared up by
the time we do this episode, so I think it's
still gonna be timely. So get into it, all right,

(13:51):
Oh my god, you know us we have to be timely,
so we are doing the episode Anchor Season eleven, Episode ten.
I'll just say right up, top people, this episode's based
off of the term anchor baby. It is an offensive
term that you know, the episodes from two thousand and nine.
We recognize that, We understand that, but you know, this

(14:14):
is what's like written into the episode, so we are
going to talk about it. But this is a very
timely episode and it's a thin heavy episode and I
love one of those.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
So here we go.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
A woman is getting out of a car going thanks
for a great night, and starts walking down the street
and she's got a walk.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
She's gorgeous.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
And I know this that when I originally saw this episode,
I go, that's Yah Yah from fucking America's Next Top Model,
and it is. It's ya Ya DaCosta from ATM from
the days.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
That I used to watch it, which are early days.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
And she actually started a very extensive acting career after
she was on Top Model. She's probably one of the
greatest reality show to acting stories that we have. She's
been one of my favorite movies.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
The kids are all right, oh yeah, she's the Smark
Ruffalo in that one, and she don't something else I like.
But she was also fun on that show because I
remember one time they were like, wow, yeah, yeah that's
a that's an exotic name or something, and she goes, well,
not in Africa, it's pretty common there.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
She just stood up for herself in a great way. Yeah,
and she's a great she's a great actor. I mean, like,
she was a regular on Chicago Med. She's no stranger
to the dick Wolf, a regular on Chicago Med for
one hundred plus episode. She's also done PD and Fire,
so she's she's out here dick wolfing baby. But I
think this was maybe her first dick Wolf joint. And

(15:36):
she's so beautiful walking down the street and then unfortunately,
out of nowhere, she does get just cold cocked in
the face, like an arm comes from offscreen.

Speaker 4 (15:43):
It's kind of like where was that person? Was he
hiding by something?

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Because like the arm comes out like he was right
next to her, and he knocks her right into a
trash pile. She is a sex worker, it turns out,
and the man who punched her is her pimp, and
he's accusing her of holding out on him, and she's like,
I swear t Mac, I was but then he finds
seventy dollars on her and he's like, well, I know
that was one hundred and fifty dollars ride where's the
rest of the money. And she's like, no, no, the

(16:07):
guy was cheap and he's like, you're lying, and then
he rips off her wig, which is very disrespectful, but
there is money in the wig, so he did know
where to look, and she's running away. I remember when
I watched this for the first time, this episode back
in the like fifteen years ago.

Speaker 4 (16:22):
This part was very scary.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
She's like a very good actress, Like she's screaming, like
he's gonna beat the shit out of her, and like,
I'm very scared when I was watching this the first time,
I remember, and she's like trying to get away from him.
She's like climbing over mountains of trash. He's just like
throwing things out of the way. Like it's very scary.
How much like bigger and stronger he is and he's
very like menacing and then he stops.

Speaker 4 (16:45):
She gasps. They have stumbled over.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
The lower half of a little girl's body emerging from
a trash bag.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
He grabs her and they leave. Okay, but he doesn't
give a shit. She's like, oh no, it's a child, and.

Speaker 4 (16:55):
He's like, high him up up. Yeah he does not.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
This man is emotionless except for getting his money right. So,
now Finn is outside an apartment building yelling like Audrina,
so that's her name. Yeah, Yah's name is Audrina and
he's like, I thought you got out of the game,
and she's like, I tried, but you know, the shelter sucked,
the ged class sucked, and my daddy promised he'd be
nice to me, and you know, Finn's like, well, that
doesn't really seem like it's working out because we also

(17:22):
just saw TMAC be very unnice and she also has
like a shiner. So she takes Finn to the body
of this little girl and he's like, why didn't you
call nine one one, and she's like, because the cops
don't give a damn about dead sex workers and I
knew you would care, so I like that. A lot
of people feel comfortable calling Finn on the side, they
really do. But Finn says the kid is too young

(17:44):
to be in the business. Plus she is wearing a
Jesus Loves Me t shirt and Audrena points out. It
would be hard to get a john wearing that T shirt,
so it's not funny. There is a dead child, but
the T shirt is kind of wild, Like it's kind
of like when they find the gymnast in Pixies and
they're just like sex worker immediately, it's like, not every
dead person in an alley is a sex worker. Like
she's wearing running shoes and like, I don't know, you know,

(18:06):
like that's not necessarily what you would consider to be
the outfit I guess, but I guess there's no outfit
for sex workers, so they could be wearing anything, I guess.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
But that's always where they go.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Anyway, it's we're at the credit, so top of act one,
we're at Melinda's house. This girl has been dead for
twelve hours. She was strangled using a heavy chain like
a bike chain or something. She's twelve years old. Melinda
found a missing reperson's report. Her name is Ruby Brown.
She's a seventh grady at Our Lady of Perpetual Virtue,
which explains that Jesus T shirt. But she was not

(18:39):
in the sex trade. Her hymen is intact, and Finn's like,
how did a twelve year old Catholic school girl end
up on dead on a hooker stroll his words. So
Melinda's like, well, that's a question for homicide. This isn't
a sex crime, but it is a crime against a child,
and they do handle those. So I'm confused why there's
all this like territorial stuff going on with this case.
And Finn's like, well, she looks like a special victims

(19:00):
to me, and he wants to notify the mom, so
he gets the address. We cut to I hate when
they do this. They show a video of Ruby looking
so cute and alive and talking to her dad about
how she's gonna win a medal and she's really cute.

Speaker 4 (19:13):
Zoom out.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Finn's watching it with Ruby's mom in the living room.
She made the video for her dad, who was stationed
in cobble. The mom blames herself. She's like, I sent
Ruby to the store for milk. She's down at one
hundred times. Why did this happen to my baby? And
Finn's like, I'm gonna find out, okay. So this is
one of those cases that gets right to the heart
of one of the detectives. Back at the precinct, Craigan

(19:34):
is reiterating to Finn that this is not an SVU
case because it wasn't sexually motivated. And I'm like, what
about the kid they found eating out of the trash
because his mom was starving him, or the little boy
in conscience who was murdered by his psycho kid neighbor.
Those are just like two off the top of my head,
Like they do plenty of just straight up kid murders
that don't have a sexual element. I feel like so,

(19:56):
and I'm a little confused why. Craigan's like, we are
not taking this, like this is not for a and
Craigan's like, kick it to homicide, and Thin's like where
it will die, Like the case will go nowhere, no
one will do anything. And Cragan's like, well, I don't
want it either of them, because like we're already getting
shit on our closure rate. And I'm like, well, from
where I'm sitting watching the TV show, you guys have
like a ninety nine percent closure rate, so I can't

(20:18):
imagine how you're getting any shit, Like you guys pretty
much solve every case. And Finn's like, so our stats
are more important than a little girl, And then in
walks Melindo right on Q. Two little girls, another one
in the Bronx, same chain pattern, a ten year old
named Magda Ibanyez, and she was dumped in a barrel
the same as Ruby Brown, which of course does remind

(20:39):
me of Dexter barrel girls. The entire season of Barrels
Barrels are free, Ky.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
You know, Yeah, that's not even the best season, but
it's the most. It made the most impact on my life. Absolutely.
I think about barrel guys, like when I see a
group of guys and I just go, oh, I bet
you get together and barrel with and barrel.

Speaker 4 (21:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
He is like really really twisted that season, like that
whole Oh my god. Oh, but Cragan is convinced. Once
he sees the second girl, he's convinced. He's like, I'm
gonna call one PP and ask them to declare the pattern.
Unfortunately for Finn, when Magda disappeared, the Bronx didn't get anywhere,
and the victim's family took her back to Hunduras for
burial and they have no plans to come back. And

(21:22):
the purp leaves no blood, hair, no DNA. The only
signature really is the chain pattern, and Craigan tells him
well it's officially a pattern, so congrats, and you're running
point on this. So Finn's like, cool, let's get a
press release out and Craigan's like, no, no, no, no, no press.
We don't want to panic every parent in town. And
it's like, but what if another girl gets picked up

(21:46):
or like murdered, or another kid and.

Speaker 4 (21:48):
One PP does not give a single fuck.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
So they're just like, you can try to find this guy,
but we're not making this a big thing. At the
deli where Ruby went for milk, the deli owner knows nothing.
I don't even know why they hired an actor to
play this man. He's like, cute kid, don't know what happened.
So they're leaving missing posters all over the area, but
no one has seen anything, and no one will even
stop and look at the flyer. Like I lived in
New York for eleven years. I have never been handed

(22:12):
a missing flyer, but you bet your ass if I was,
I would be stopping and going how long has she
been gone?

Speaker 4 (22:17):
Like what are we looking for? Are there any suspects?

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Like I would be asking some questions and people are like,
you know, they're really playing up the New York stereotype
of like not interested and everybody just keeps like walking
to like hail a cab, you know, and so like
Finn yells at some random woman being like too busy
to help find a little girl's killer, and he's like,
like I said, he's really taking this one to heart.
Munch is like, let's call it a night, and he's like,

(22:41):
I'm not going home until I find a witness. So
Finn is in it to win it. Back at the house,
Finn and Munch return dejected they've got nothing. Finn is
still pissed that he can't go to the press because
he's like that would really help, and Live brings up
a guy she was dating at the Ledger. I think
she's talking about Bill Bill Pullman, and she goes, you know,
when I was dating this guy, I got to know

(23:02):
this woman on the crime desk named Nicole Gleeson. She's like,
I could set you guys up, and Finn's like, I
don't need any help hooking up. It's like so funny
how he's like doesn't get it, Like in the middle
of a conversation about your case lives, just like, oh,
by the way, do you want to go on a date,
like she obviously has a plan, you know, and lives Like, no, dumbass,
you're gonna need an alibi about having a drink with

(23:23):
a journalist, So like, why do I have to spell
everything out for all these men? So Finn gets it
now and he's like, fine, Lenox Lounge ten o'clock, Finn
is a night owl now playing on Netflix. So at
Lenox Lounge, Finn is having a drink with Nicole and
the actress that's playing Nicole is played by Megelin at Chikunwoke,
And I really hope I'm pronouncing that the correct way.

Speaker 4 (23:43):
I apologize.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
But she is a beautiful actress who has been in
a ton of stuff you've seen, and.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
She is stunning, and how much she wants Finn's dick
is wild.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
It's why I've never seen I've not even seen Phoebe
his wife lust after his dick the way that this
woman does.

Speaker 4 (24:03):
This woman wants a piece of Finn.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
So Finn is trying to get her to put this
story out asap, and she's like, you'll owe me and
he's like, oh, that's a bet.

Speaker 4 (24:15):
I have no problem like fulfilling my end of or whatever.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Like So these two are flirting pretty hard, and she's like,
you got camera ready art, and he's like, you bet,
I do school picks of both the victims.

Speaker 4 (24:26):
Okay, Like they are getting it.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
It's getting steamy at the Lennox lounge and she's like, great,
school picks always play well on the front page. So
I don't know what happens with those two. I don't
even think they go home together. But the next morning,
Finn goes to grab the Ledger at a newsstand and spoiler,
the two girls are not on the cover. It's a
panda named Coco, and the headline is crazy for Coco,

(24:49):
and it is funny because that is his wife's name,
and he goes crazy for Coco, but you know, it's
kind of like iced Tea is crazy for Coco, but
not a panda.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
He's pissed. He's like, what the fuck.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
As he's like paging through the newspaper, Craigan walks up
and goes, it's on page seventeen, and Finn's like it
had to be done, and Craigan goes, well, we have
to listen to the chief of D's and Finn's like, yeah,
unless live or Elliott bends the rules and then you're
out on a limb with them, and he's not wrong.

Speaker 4 (25:16):
Those two bendshit all the time. They do stuff all
the time.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
And Finn's like, suddenly you're after me for like, you know,
going like lives leaked full stories to the press. You know,
Finn's got no regrets. He's like, my only regret is
I didn't get the cover. And then he's pissed because
he's like, if the victims looked like Elizabeth Smart, there'd
be a task force on a one million dollar reward.
And Craigan goes, it's not about race, Finn, and it's like, sure, Jan, yeah,

(25:40):
it is, Like it definitely is. If there was like
a killer going out and strangling little white girls on
like the Upper East Side, are you joking? No one
would send their kids to school, Like everything would be canceled.
But it's just, you know, that's the fucking institutional racism
that we all live in with it with every day.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
So Finn walks off.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
Finn is like really not respect any of Craigan's authority
at this point. He's like, I don't give a fuck.
Give me the five day rip. It'll just give me
more time to work on my case. And Craigan's like, well, actually,
your little stunt gave us our best lead. Two callers
from Ruby's neighborhood gave up a supermarket delivery boy who
likes little girls. So I don't even know why you're
giving him shit, but I guess because the chief of

(26:19):
detective whatever.

Speaker 4 (26:20):
So Finn goes to chase down this lead.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
When he gets to the market, we see this guy
from behind giving a little girl a lollipop and he's
like talking about my favorite flavor is cherry, and do
you like grape or whatever, and then Finn slams the
sky against the side of a building, and the guy
immediately seems like he might be a little bit intellectually disabled,
like he's.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
Like, why are you being mean?

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Like that's not like the way a child molester criminal
would really like be speaking to you. I don't think
like this guy seems like, you know, I can tell
from my degree at SVU University that he's like, this
is a red herring. But and oh my god, I
literally started writing in my notes it's really giving Mark
from Lost Traveler, like the boy that was like these

(27:01):
are my friends or whatever?

Speaker 4 (27:02):
You know, Oh the episode it is him.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
And then I go and I double check the character's name,
and I just happen to click on the actor's name,
Michael Barra, And it's also the guy who plays Donnie
in Anchor.

Speaker 4 (27:14):
They're the same actor.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
This guy got cast two seasons apart as the same
guy and intellectually disabled local boy who possibly hurt a
kid but didn't and is just the red herring.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
I just think it's wild. They're just like, bring him
back in.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
He's good at that, Like it's only two seasons apart. Like,
do these guys know each other? I thought that was crazy.
So Finn is giving this guy full court press. He
lives in the Bronx, so he brings up Magda. He's like, like,
you strangle these girls, Like this is why you did it?
This is how like And the guy's like, no, no,
I just give people rides and sometimes they don't want

(27:50):
to be my friend. But I never heard anyone like
I just give lollypops to my friends. You know, Like
this is not talking like a guy who is guilty
and in walks Kragan, you guess they found another body
done done so. At the crime scene at the top
of AC two, we see this little boy Scotty Wu
getting zipped up into a body bag.

Speaker 4 (28:10):
He was also strangled with a chain. He's twelve years old.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
He's only been dead three hours max, and Donnie's been
in holding for six hours, so yeah, like, duh, it's
not him. Scotty's parents work at a food place downtown
and Finn's like, great, I gotta go tell another parent that.

Speaker 4 (28:25):
Their kid is dead.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
So now we're at chen Wu cafe and the parents
are obviously very upset. Scotty looked after other kids. He
was our only child, and then the mom goes he
was our anchor. And the mom is played by friend
of the pod Karen Senley, who we have spoke spoken to.
And Finn's like, what do you mean anchor And the
husband's like, shut the fuck up, Like he basically tells

(28:48):
her to shut the fuck.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
Up in Mandarin.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
I'm assuming, and the mom says, the snakehead did this,
and like that's we know, we've talked about that before.
That's like someone who takes people across borders or into
other countries, and like a lot of times they have
very predatory like deals where you have to pay them
back for years for getting you into the country or whatever.
So the husband does not want to talk to Finn,
even though Finn's like, I don't care about your immigration status,

(29:11):
like I just want to find out who killed your son.
And the dad's like, well, they said not to talk
to you, and he's like who is they? And they
is the Center for Immigrant Services who they refer to
as CIS, and uh going forward, and he's like, call Keiko,
so they go to speak to Keiko Nishimura played by
Christine Toy Johnson. She's also an SVU repeat customer. She

(29:35):
was in Countdown Lust and you might recognize her in
some of the Teen Year episodes.

Speaker 4 (29:41):
She plays doctor Celia Lee.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
She's Noah's pediatrician who's like helping when Noah's first getting
adopted by Benson. So she's very like the one that's like, oh,
he's got a cracked rib and this with his breathing
problems and all that. So uh, Keiko says, I know
that the Woo's paid their snakehead in full because I'm
the one who delivered the money, so I don't think
it's this per and she's saying, this is so terrible
about Scotty's death, especially after Ruby and Magda, so hold

(30:06):
the fucking phone, Like, how do you know all three
of these kids, all three families are clients of CIS
and the organization was helping them all with their naturalization.
And then they look at this huge photo of a
bunch of kids and the three victims are in this
group photo together. So fingo, So all three of these
kids are you know, he says anchor babies to undocumented parents,

(30:28):
which is derogatory. But what they're referring to as a
child born in the United States, who lets the who
because they are an American citizen.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
It allows the parents to stay in the United States.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
And I'm gonna touch on this in when we get
to the crime and it's like all propaganda and it's
not even a real thing, okay, And it's like truly
not how laws work, and it's all it was all
man made by Republican hateful focks. Yeah, it's like not
even real. Not shocked.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
Keiko's a fucking hero.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
She goes, you call them anchor babies, all the American citizens,
which they are, they're American citizens, they're born here, and
they're all connected to the center. So your program is
a good place to search for targets. The cops tell her,
and she's like, well, listen, we get bomb threats, vandalism,
hate mail, and then she obviously whips out the stacks.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
Of all the hate mail.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
She's like, we try to ignore the politics and to
remind the public that all these people that they call
slurs are just like them, living, breathing human beings. And
she says Fob's which I'd never heard as a slur before,
but I guess it stands for fresh off the boat.
And I think I hadn't read that before, but I
feel like, Bob, there is a television show called Fresh

(31:41):
off the Boat, So I mean, I feel.

Speaker 4 (31:42):
It's definitely a thing we would say to each other.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, yeah, like if we saw like a fresher immigrant
would be like what a fa, Like they're acting immigrant.

Speaker 4 (31:54):
Yeah, that's why saying.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
Well, I've talked about this, like, that's why I wouldn't
wear like denim jackets for a long time, because it
just reminded me of my brother landing in America and
he was wearing like an acid watched denim and jacket
and I was like, that's that's so fre Like IW.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
You're literally signaling to everyone how fresh you are.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
And I was a kid, and so until my like
mid twenties, I never wore a Dunhim jacket because it
just reminded me of being an immigrant.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Oh wow, how funny that certain things just like click
because I've worn a Dunim jacket my whole life. Like
certain things just like have that effect on you.

Speaker 4 (32:28):
Interesting. That's crazy. Wow. I never heard that really.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
I mean, but it's one of those things where definitely
like you can't say it, but I can say it,
you know, like that kind of a thing. Yeah, because
I think because I used to say it on stage
and you could tell people would get weird and I
would because I, you know, I just am like white
and don't have an accent, and so then you'd have
to explain yourself in that way. Or sometimes like on stage,
we'll be like any immigrants here and then people are

(32:52):
like uh oh and then it is normal.

Speaker 4 (32:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Wow, Well okay, so back to this episode. She horrific,
this horrific episode. So Keiko is like, yeah, most of
the people that write us are fans of this guy.
And she happens to have the TV on and it's
this guy named Gordon Garrison, the host of Flashpoint, and
he's clearly like some Fox News dipshit, Like the name

(33:17):
is so perfect, like Gordon Garrison, I'm surprised it's not real,
Like I'm surprised that's not a real guy. That's like
a perfect name for some fucking loser Glen Beck type, right,
who used to live in my town. So but back
to this fake Fox News. They play a clip of
this guy, g Gordon Garrison, and he is played by
the actor Bruce McGill, who you've seen in a million things.

(33:37):
He has one hundred and sixty nine credits. He's been
working since the seventies. He was a regular on mcguver,
a regular on Rizzolian Isles. He's recently been on the
show Lioness. He's in My cousin Vinnie Legally Blonde two.
Like that's just me scanning his fucking IMDb for a
few things I recognize, Like he's been in a ton
Like you see him and you're like, I know that guy,

(33:58):
and he's a perfect cast for this. He's got this
kind of arched eyebrow that's like perfect for like a
smug Fox News asshole, and he's basically doing yeah, like
a Glenn Beck imitation and munch hates him obviously, and
on his show he's got a guest who is Randall
Carver played by John lara Quette, who is a huge

(34:18):
part of my upbringing for some reason, even though I
didn't watch a lot of night Court, he was a
very famous actor. Like when I was growing up, he
won the Best Supporting Actor in a Comedy Emmy four
years in a row, which like we don't really see
that happen anymore, and like night Court was this massive show.
He ended up having the John lara Quett Show, I remember,
and he was also on Boston Legal, like he works

(34:40):
all the time. But he's also in a Clank family
classic that I maybe have talked about on this podcast
called Madhouse where he's married to Kirsty Ally Casey's laughing.
Have you seen that movie, Casey? It's fucking unhinged and
I've seen it so many times. It's from nineteen ninety,
but yeah, it's like definitely like a nineties movie, like

(35:00):
it would be on HBO, And you know, I would
just watch anything that came on HBO because we didn't
have choices back then. Like my children will never know
what it's like to just watch whatever comes on. But
like it's basically this movie is about they're this like couple.
They've got a great life, they have no kids, They're
just like both doing awesome in their careers. They've got
a nice house, and then family comes to visit, and

(35:22):
then things just keep going wrong and getting fucked up,
and the house just like more family keeps coming and
it becomes this like psychotic where they're like, get them
out of our house, but they like can't.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
Like it's I remember there's like a joke in it
with that was like.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
A nineties thing though a lot of movies about guests. Y. Yeah,
yet like going on like people Uncle Buck or whatnot. Right,
that's the one therapist, Like just someone's in your home
and you don't want them there. I can't kick them
out totally. That's the thing of the past.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Like one of the family members is pregnant and something
happens where the doctor's like she's got to be on
bed rush can't travel, so she has to spend the
rest of her pregnancy at their house. And she's all
like chained up in this bed with like her legs
up and stuff, and she's talking about.

Speaker 4 (36:07):
The baby names.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
I remember her being like, well I was thinking about Treblinka,
which is a concentration camp, and like there's just these
crazy jokes in the movie that I remember when I'm
ten years old being like what.

Speaker 4 (36:19):
The fuck is this movie?

Speaker 1 (36:21):
And so like I remember it's like where I learned
what cocaine looks like.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
I mean, that movie was.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Like a serious but it's like it obviously devolves and
is wild and crazy. But yeah, those mad cat movies
of like things just keep going wrong. We're such a
huge genre in the nineties and eighties, and they're just like,
I don't know, they're not really like they don't happen
as much anymore unless it's like a Safty brother film
and it makes you want to like rip your skin
off because it's so stressful. But Carver, uh John Leraquat

(36:50):
is playing Randall Carver, okay, and he's a lawyer who
I guess is like very liberal and loves the ACLU,
but he hates cops. So Finn does not like him,
and he's making case on the show Like this is
like basically something that I don't even think happens that
much anymore, where like a fully liberal lawyer would go
on to like Glenn Beck and talk about his point
of view, like maybe it does, but like I know

(37:13):
sometimes they like they put liberal people on panel shows
on Fox News and stuff, but everybody in the audience
is like, yeah, America's going to hell in a handbasket.
And then this lawyer comes on like he's gonna change
anyone's mind, Like I don't know, but he's making the
case that these are just families trying to live the
American dream. We're all immigrants, like we all came to
this country from somewhere else. And he's, you know, he's correct,

(37:34):
all his ideas are correct. And then this Garrison guy
takes a page right out of the Maga playbook, which
is terrifying because this aired fifteen years ago, and he's like, no,
my audience are honest citizens, and they're tired of these
criminals overrunning their neighborhoods.

Speaker 4 (37:47):
Like again, like I just I live in Los.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Angeles where these fucking ice raids are happening, and these
are not criminals that are getting kidnapped off the street.

Speaker 4 (37:57):
So it's fucked. So Carver says like.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
But even these idea of these criminals, it's like the
people most scared of this self, like stay out of
our fucking city. Yeah, if you're scared of all these immigrants, good,
you live on a farm. No one gives a shit
about you. Like, why are you so concerned? Do you
hate us all? We're all heathens from hell, so let
us fucking burn, Like Lee, I don't understand it. I

(38:22):
don't understand being like acting tough but being scared of
these immigrants. I don't understand how that works. How you're
like yeah, I mean and then like you're scared of
what a man at a Chinese restaurant?

Speaker 4 (38:35):
What are you doing?

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Well?

Speaker 4 (38:36):
Yeah, it's just like classic scapegoating. You know.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
It's just like they are upset that their lives aren't
going well and they need someone to blame, and this
is who the government is telling them to blame instead
of the fucking billionaires and you know everybody, like the
people that are really in charge. So Carver is actually like, well,
you know who the real criminals are.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
But also so with the casting, with the two of them,
they could also each play each other totally.

Speaker 4 (39:01):
Yes, they very much could.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Also because John Leroquette is speaking in like a Benoi
Blanc Frank Underwood type accent, like, well, now the rooster,
who's the rooster in Looney Tunes. Yeah, yeah, fog Horn leghorn. Right,
it's like very like it's like I don't know where
he's from, but I'm like Louisiana, you know. He's like
he's basically like, you know, you know who the real

(39:23):
criminals are is the police?

Speaker 4 (39:25):
You know?

Speaker 1 (39:26):
So like and I watched all of House of Cards,
like Frank Underwood's the same care kind of character. And
so then he accuses the police of turning a blind
eye to the crimes against immigrants and against children, and
he name checks SPU specifically, and he wants people to
meet him at a rally outside of SPU headquarters. And
it's like, who would be watching that show that would

(39:47):
agree with you? Who would be watching that show and go,
you're right, why aren't they finding the murderer of these children?
The people watching the show don't care that these children
of color are being murdered.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
So it's kind of like, I get it's a show.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
We got to introduce all these character we got to
set it up, but it's like, what's happening, Like I
don't think like AOC is going on Bill O'Reilly and
then going, everybody meet me in times square, like that's
not happening.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
You know, she'd probably need to get extra security. I
just can't imagine seeing a kid and being like, ill, yeah,
I don't care, Yeah, I don't care. Their moms shouldn't
have done that. Get them over it, like scum.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
Yeah, it'scum. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
So now there's like a full blown rally going on
outside of SVU or maybe it's the courthouse. I can't
really tell where they are, but it's fully like it's
half disgusting freaks screaming for immigrants to go home, and
like they're not just like chanting, they are like their
faces are fucked up, like they're so angry, and they're
just like get out of here like this, you know,

(40:47):
go home. And then there's like the normal side of
protesters that are like this country was built by immigrants
and they're doing their things. And then John le Riquette
is leading a chant that's a little half assed. It's like, SVU,
what do you say, Hey, how many kids are gonna
die today? And I don't think it's one that really
liked the that would get picked up, you know, I
don't think it's like one of the hotter chants. And uh, anyway,

(41:10):
he starts questioning Finn right there, and then there's a
camera on him. The hot reporter is there, Nicole from
the Ledger, and he's like, well, we want to know
why this killer hasn't been caught, and it's like, I
don't know, didn't they find like the third victim like yesterday.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
I don't know. It just feels like they're always.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Like, what it's taking so long, NYPD, And so Lara
Katz's character is like, yeah, we all want to know
why the killer hasn't been caught, and then this wacko
comes up and goes, no, we all want to know
why these illegal aliens are still here.

Speaker 4 (41:36):
It's like so bonkers.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
But this guy ranting about illegal aliens like kind of
touches Finn, like puts his hands on his shoulders, and
Finn wants this guy's like nasty racist paws off of him,
so he shoves him off, and then Carver yells police brutality,
and it's like you, Carver, like you're kind of the
problem with like liberal politics, and to a point, it's like,
why are you accusing of this like these this psycho

(41:59):
racist is putting his hand on a cop who is
shoving him. Away, that's not police brutality. You're a lawyer
and you know it, so Finn. Then Carver gets in
his face, and Finn gives Carver a little baby shove
and calls him a jack hole. And maybe that is
taking it too far because Carver didn't touch him. But
the next thing we see is a slowed down version
of it on TV and the Chief of DS is

(42:20):
watching it and the chiron at the bottom reads special
Violence Unit. Uh oh, and Finn is still in his
don't give a fuck era. He goes, whatever, give me
the rip. I gotta go find this killer. And then
the Chief of d's is like, yeah, go ahead, Totuola,
walk on out to your next career. I'm sure you'll
enjoy being a mall cop. Uh oh, don't you, Paul Blart,
Finn Tutuola. So Finn comes back and is like, all right,

(42:43):
I'm sorry. I lost my cool with Carver and the
chief He's like, I apologize, and the chief goes, okay,
now go say it again to that asswad who's making
our lives hell. Asswad seems like such a fifth grade insult,
but here we are. The chief of Detectives is using it.
Finn shows up at the Carver Justice Center to see
Carver and apologize, and we hear the faint sound of

(43:04):
yelling coming from his office, and if you have your
captions on like I do, it's like you can hear
somebody going, you're ruining America. Gordon Garrison says so, and
then suddenly a glass door just shatters and inside Carver's office,
Finn runs in there there's a dude freaking out, calling
Carver's clients rats and roaches. And I'm sorry to bring
up something that has touched your life so recently, Lisa,

(43:25):
but that is what he says. And he's like, why
don't you stand up for Americans once in a while.
And the guy who's ranting in there is a friend
of the pod, Thomas Sadowski. He is he did play
the man with the douchey hat who Rollins was dating
from AA and he's obviously a different character here.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
And married to Amanda Sipher, Yes, yes, yes, And he's
married to Amanda Seyfrid, another SVU queen who well, it's
funny because when he did the pod he said how
Amanda was like, we, I mean, I've been on SVU
and it's like, yeah, babe, come on down.

Speaker 4 (43:59):
We're we're already.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
It's not based on a crime, I don't think, but
we'll take it.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Amanda Seifert's husband, Thomas Sedowski's there ranting and fucking raving
like a lunatic about you know, illegal immigrants ruining our country,
and Finn walks in and lays the guy out immediately,
which is awesome, and he looks like so shocked. He's like,
why are you doing this to me? I'm here to
help America. And he's quoting Gordon Garrison and calling Carver

(44:25):
a liberal elite, and it's like it is so like
fifteen years have gone by and like nothing has changed.
These psycho people are still like using the same vernacular,
they still have the same ideas. Finn tells Carver this
is when you say thank you, and he arrests the guy.

Speaker 4 (44:39):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
So Carver follows Finn out to the cop car and
he's like, well, I won't be pressing charges against mister Thaggart,
and he thinks he's just a misguided fan of Gordon Garrison,
and Finn's like, you just want to make cops look
like the bad guys again. But Carver's like, look, I'll
call it even with you if you just let this
guy go.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
So Finn lets him go, like even though it's.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Like he seems like a danger to other people and
like possibly himself. But when Finn gets back to the precinct,
hot Ledger reporter Nicole is sitting on.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
His desk and he's not that happy to see her.
He like sighs.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
I'm like, I don't know, she's pretty gorgeous. It's kind
of insane that you're like, oh, not this, and she
wants to help. She's like, listen, I wanted that your
story on the front page. But my boss blah blah blah.
And she's like what arey is mad? Yeah, and she's
like whatever, you got to lead out of it, and
he's like yeah, but while I was wasting my time

(45:33):
chasing the delivery boy lead, the real killer got Scotti woo,
which is true. But it's like, Finn, you weren't really
like hot on the tail of the killer. You know, like, yes,
you could have been using that time, I guess in
a different way, but you weren't, like and so yeah,
Finn is like super hit hard by this case. As
we've said, he's like, I've got nothing. These innocent kids
are dying. And then she's really trying to make a

(45:54):
move on him and he's not going for it, and
she's like, okay, well enjoy your pity party and walks off.
And now he's got no killer, no pretty lady. He's sad.
So at the top of AC three, Finn is staring
at positively enormous photos of these children and they're up
on the board and they're just so big. It's like,
it's so sad they're dead kids. We don't have to

(46:14):
have their pictures. They don't need to be like twenty
five by forty, you know. So Liv walks in and
Finn is immediately being such a dick. He's like, I'm
not in the mood for a pep talk, and she's like, well,
I didn't come to give you when I came to
give you these, and she drops a stack of files
on the desk and he goes, are.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
You kidding me? Paperwork?

Speaker 1 (46:30):
And then he like pushes them all onto the floor
and he's really wild for that. It's like, have you
met Benson, Like she's not giving you paperwork, that's not
even her job at the precinct to like distribute paperwork
to other detectives, like, and she's like, actually their employee
files for all the vendors at the Center for Immigration Services,

(46:51):
which I figured someone who goes in and out of
there all the time might be your guy. And Finn's like,
oh man, you've actually been running down leads from me
and I've been acting like a piece of shit.

Speaker 4 (47:01):
And he's like, you know, he like she talks about
how this.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Is like this case is hitting him different, like he
feels strongly because like these are kids of color, but
also because it feels like no one gives a shit
to him, you know.

Speaker 4 (47:12):
But he's like, all right, Munch, let's get to work.
He screams.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
He goes Munch, and Munch like is seemingly snoozing, and
he's like ough, and they're like, let's hit the hate
mail again. So now after a while they're going through
and Finn goes, I'm not finding Dick and I kind
of like that he's allowed to say that on network television,
and Munch goes, well, there's enough bad grammar here to
think that the problem is education, not immigration, And you're
absolutely correct, that is part of the problem with almost

(47:36):
every right wing talking point. As they're going through the mail,
Finn makes a connection though, He's like, holy shit, Joe Thaggard,
that's the guy who was attacking Carver, who we let go.
He works for the company that shreds this this immigration
center's paperwork, so that means he'd have access to all
their home addresses. And Finn's like, and I fucking let

(47:58):
him go three hours ago. Oh, he's pissed. And then
the next thing we see is the cops busting down
Thaggridg's door. Finn immediately checks the temp on the coffee
pot and goes he hasn't been gone long. It's hilarious,
Like he rides straight for the coffee pot and it's
like it's nighttime, but I know he made a night
time pot of coffee and it's still warm, so he's nearby.
In another room, they find this guy's full plan room. Okay,

(48:19):
it's picks of the of the of the victims playing
at a park like that he's taken surveillance style. They're
missing posters with exes through their faces, like, and I
don't I don't even really know why there are missing
posters because most of these kids like were found very quickly,
but whatever, He's got four more kids lined up after
them to be next.

Speaker 4 (48:39):
So they bring in families of three of these kids.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
They're all okay, they're all like talking to Stabler and
Benson and all the different people, and they're like, where's Finn.

Speaker 4 (48:48):
He's in bay Ridge getting the al Haziz family. Uh oh.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
When he gets there, he finds the mom tied up
on the couch with tape over her mouth, and it's
very dark, as this show always is, but I guess
the dad is like knocked out on the floor. So
out comes this psychopath freak faggered with this little kid
who's like, I don't want to go with you, and
seeing Finn like spooks him enough that he lets the
kid go and he runs. So the kid is okay, few,

(49:11):
you know, one silver lining of this whole thing, and
and Finn runs after this loser and then holds a
gun on him, going you better grow wings or I'm
a blow your brains all over the street. Another good one,
I mean, another one for the coffee table book. So
now we've got this crazy psycho in cement room bars
and he's like denying everything. He goes I drank some

(49:33):
beers and went into the wrong apartment. It's like, we
know where you live, like we are the price, we
know where you live. We're in Bay Ridge. You didn't
walk to bay Ridge by accident. You live in Manhattan.
He says he walked through the wrong apartment and Finn's like,
oh really, and then you accidentally knocked the dad out
and tied up the mom. He's denying everything, which is wild,
but he's revealing more of his Bonker's ideology.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
He's like, well, no, we'll never get rid of these people.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Like if we get rid of one, three more pop up,
like someone has to even the score, et cetera, et cetera.
Like he's just like saying all these insane right wing
talking points. So Finn calls my baby killer and goes, yes,
say it baby killer. And then this guy just turns
to Finn and says, I only got one word for you,
and he calls him the racial slur that is rhymes
with uh spoon okay, and he goes and you can

(50:21):
see Finn is like ooh, like his face is getting
wrinkled up.

Speaker 4 (50:25):
He's seething.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
But first of all, go back and listen to our
interview with Thomas Sadowski where we talked to him. We
actually talked to him episode thirty two of the podcast,
so two hundred plus episodes ago. We talked to him
for the episode Rapist Anonymous, and I believe we talked
to him about having to say that to iced team,
So there's a little bit of I think he gives
us a little bit of tea about this episode as well.

Speaker 4 (50:46):
Finn is seething.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
Craigan and Cabot are just watching through the window and
Cabit's like, this guy's dead.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
I mean he's always catching straights. Jin is always getting
a slur at it. Yeah, he really is.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
He really is, and I mean everybody else that works
on the squad as white as hell, so he's like
the one that's getting the most racist shit, and Finn
will like like capit thinks Finn's about to pop this
guy in the fucking mouth, but he's not gonna obviously
let this guy have the satisfaction, and he goes, oh,
is that the best you got?

Speaker 4 (51:16):
Suddenly this guy is very.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Cocky like he to me seems like he has a
personality disorder because he goes he vacillates very wildly from
like super cocky to like, I'm so innocent, you know,
like he's really weird, and he's suddenly so cocky, going, well,
it's more than you've got, which is nothing. And then
finn cell phone rings, and thank god, it's Munch calling
from what he calls xenophobe manner, which I love. And

(51:40):
he's like, he's got the mother load of evidence. He's
got barrels in the garage. This guy has a garage, Like,
what's happening. He's got the chain. He's got a chain
with blood and skin tissue on it. It's like again
with these fucking killers, it's like, you're gonna be so
careful about not leaving any DNA or hair or anything
at the scene. The only thing tying to it is
the murder weapon, and you keep it. I just like,

(52:02):
I don't know, watch a television show once. But he's
still got the you know what I mean, Yeah, they're
never gonna catch me. And I'm and I'm off. He
honestly thinks he's doing something good, I think. So Finn
tells Thagger, well, we got your creepy little target board
at your house, plus all of this evidence, and then
he plops the photos of the kids down in front
of him, and suddenly seeing the photos of the children,

(52:25):
he's just fully admitting the whole thing. And he tells
Finn he gets so like innocent looking, and he goes,
what I did was right. America's going to hell. They
wrecked my life and they're destroying this my country. Like
what the fuck, dude, Like, so now you So that
Finn goes, well, now you get to be part of
the little Rainbow coalition we call prison. Plenty of quote

(52:47):
unquote them will be your new pals. So in walks
Cabot and she's got Carver with her, and it turns
out he's not there to press charges. He's there to
defend this crazy person pro bono.

Speaker 4 (52:58):
Finn can't believe it.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
He's like, this fuck killed three kids, and Carver's like, yes,
but he did it because his mind has been filled
with hate by people like Gordon Garrison. This is classic SVU, like, yes,
the person did it, but there's some outside force. There's
the actor who tells people not to take their drugs.
There's like, you know, we've done there's so many svus
where it's like, well, it's actually the toy company's fault,

(53:22):
you know, And you know, it's definitely partially their fault.
But this is like a classic trope of the show,
and he says it just.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
Never works in court because tons of people watch that
show and don't commit murders exactly, you know, it's exactly still,
And then he has the audacity to say, this man
is as much a victim as the three kids, and
I wouldn't go that far.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
You could if you want to try to paint him
as a victim of rainwashing or something, go for it.
He's not an innocent child that was choked out with
a bike chain.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
He's not.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
At arraignment, Thaggard is pleading not guilty to our favorite judge,
Lois Preston. Cabot wants remand and she gets it. Carver
hands a motion to Cabot basically claiming that Thagert was brainwashed,
that Gordon Garrison made him commit these crimes, and that
persistent viewing a flashpoint convinced him that undocumented immigrants posed
a threat to national security. And Cabot's like, oh yeah,

(54:13):
and listening to MPR will turn us all into zombies.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
It's like, lol, well.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
We're in the future now, Cabot, and our government is
trying to get rid of MPR, so kind of not
really an issue anymore. But Carver says that authority figures
spewing hate speech is a danger, and Judge Lois agrees
to allow the defense. She says, there's precedence for this
brainwashing defense. So now it's time on the show where
the gang sits around and debates their own personal views

(54:39):
of the case. Stabler thinks Saggart is just a loser,
bigot trying to avoid a life sentence and lives like, yeah,
but what will the jury believe? And Cabot says, well,
the brainwashing defense didn't work for Patty Hurst, and she
was more sympathetic than Thaggard. I didn't realize that Patty
Hurst actually was convicted. Like Patty Hurst, who was kidnapped

(55:00):
by the Symbolyze Limeration Army or whatever some kind of
culty thing they held her. She eventually got Stockholm syndrome
and became like part of their mission, and when she
came back, she talked like with flat affect, like people
thought she was like a zombie. And yet she still
was tried in court for like a bank robbery that
she participated in, and she was given seven years, but

(55:22):
I think she only served like less than two years,
and then the president I think pardoned her, I think,
or commuted her sentence or something like that. So that's
like wild, But I guess Munch argues that, yeah, pat
Patty Hurst wouldn't have done anything criminal if the cult
hadn't kidnapped her and hadn't fucked with her psychologically, So
maybe that is like kind of what's going on with

(55:44):
this guy, I guess, But cabots like Hurst would have
been acquitted today, like in the seventies, no one knew
about Stockholm syndrome or Jim Jones.

Speaker 4 (55:51):
But Thaggart's never even met this guy.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Plus, like Lisa just said, millions of people watch this
show and they don't go out killing kids. So the
jury to consider only if Thaggard is nuts, not like.

Speaker 4 (56:03):
Really anything else.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
But Munch talks about how the Internet and the twenty
four hours news cycle has given more crack pots the
vehicle with which to command people to do bad shit,
and even if they're doing it not directly, like he's
not saying go out and kill them, but he's spreading
enough like shit that he knows he's like it's going
to start something you know, and Munch said, like, did
you know that the Department of Homeland Security released a

(56:26):
report about the rise of right wing extremism after Obama's election?

Speaker 4 (56:30):
And Finn's like, can we just leave the brother out
of it? Munch?

Speaker 1 (56:32):
But he is right, and he's like, I just want
them to take radical fringe groups seriously, Like it's not
Obama's fault. It's like the racism that's ingrained in our
country's history, Like Obama's election. I've listened to like an
interesting podcast about this, where, like.

Speaker 4 (56:48):
I think it was a Malcolm.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Gladwell episode about how we thought everybody thought when Obama
was elected that we had sort of moved forward in
our racism as a country. But really it's on a
lot of the shit we're dealing with today. I'm not
saying we shouldn't have elected Obama. I love Obama, but
there's just a lot of bubbling shit. Nothing just went
Everybody didn't just go, oh, great, now we have a

(57:09):
black president and we respect black people and people of color,
you know, like it made all these people bubble for
a long time, and then Trump fucking unleashed the gates.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
Well, it also was just like, well a black dude's president,
So shut up, what do you mean you're not racist?

Speaker 4 (57:23):
How can we be racist if a black guy as president?

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Right?

Speaker 4 (57:26):
You know it's like that kind of nonsense too.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Yeah, and that's what's so weird about the right, where
it's like you don't want to go to the doctor.

Speaker 4 (57:35):
I just I don't get.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
I just don't get what they're so against, and it's
you know, it's it's really crazy. While their lives don't
actually change, like when Democrats are, their lives never get worse. Yeah,
and I think that it's just literally some people just
they want to get mad at something and they're not
like there's a little bit of a lack of education

(57:58):
for a lot of them. Not all my parents vote Republican, like,
but there I don't think that they're stupid people, but
there is like the Fox News brainwashing I think is real.
And then there's also like these people that you respect
and think are smart are telling you xyz.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
So you're just kind of like, yeah, I'm going with that,
you know. So it's it's bad. But anyway, now we're
at trial. Thaggart is on the stand and he's like, well,
I got into flashpoint after the Coast Guard ding ding
Ding he was in the military, and he's like, it
was between it was between watching Flashpoint and soaps. And
I'm like, I don't know, dude, it's two thousand and nine.

(58:33):
I think there's other stuff on TV beside soaps and Flashpoint,
Like I think you wanted to watch Flashpoint, you know.
And he's like, I couldn't get work despite having skills.
I lost my car, my house, my girlfriend left, and
Gordon told him that all of this happened because jobs
were going to illegal immigrants who worked for lower.

Speaker 4 (58:51):
Wages, and he's pissed.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
He's like, I spent thirteen years defending this country and
you're just going to give my job away and again,
and it's like I don't think that's happening, but go
off king whatever you say. And he's like, these people
don't pay taxes, not true, they don't pay their hospital bills.
Then he goes then their women pop out anchor babies
and they get to stay forever. Like it's it's like

(59:15):
the language is so fuz so clip from Caleb's podcast
and he was just like, what kind of nerd?

Speaker 4 (59:22):
Are you show me your papers? Like who do you
why you care? Why do you care so much?

Speaker 2 (59:28):
It's it really you need someone legally he or not,
like live your life. It's like they are empty. They
are empty and have nothing to live for. Like why
don't you just focus on your people and your life
and your interests, like mind your business.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Yeah, and like okay, like let's say you've been touched
by gang violence, which none of these people have. I
don't care either, like I want you to. I want
you to find the gang guys and put them in jail.
I don't even put them in jail in our country.

Speaker 4 (59:57):
I don't care. I don't need anybody sent home. They're
gonna go to jail for murder.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
They're probably not Like what are we talking about, like
immigrant like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Plan if it wasn't real, Like we know it's a
tactic to get these people involved, and like that the
people truly benefiting that make money off of this don't
even care about this stuff. It's like they're sociopaths that
don't care about humanity.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
And then these fools really are believing. It's really it's
really hard to.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Yeah, yeah, to wrap my head around like what do
I care if you're here legally or not? Like I
just don't want to pay, the rich don't pay, and
all of these things that you're mad at these immigrants
about the rich people are doing. They're they're actually doing
the things and taking your jobs and moving them overseas
or whatever, and like selling your water to people I

(01:00:42):
don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:43):
Yeah, it's like, why.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Don't we make mandates about these corporations hiring more veterans
that have skills? Like why don't we instead of just
blaming these random people that I bet like are not
even are not taking your jobs in a.

Speaker 4 (01:00:58):
Lot of way, you know, like I mean veterans. Yeah,
well that's because this guy is like shit, you treat
veterans like shit.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Well, I don't you know. I follow some influencer, Matt Burned.
He's like Matt XIV, which I know a lot of
people allow him, but he posted something that was just
like I don't care about illegal immigration and I never
have and I never will and I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:01:20):
I'm like, we live in the most massive country.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
The statistics say that most like most immigrants into this
country are not using our welfare like resources, which is
all this propaganda. Lie, I don't care, like I never,
I do not care like and I never you cannot
convince me to care about this being a problem, Like
I just don't. I live in a city full of immigrants,
and I think it makes our city great. Like if
anyone's going to be bothered by it, it should be people

(01:01:43):
that live in these cities and we're not so is alone.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
And it's so race space, Like it's like racism disguised
as something else, Like you don't care about immigration, No
one ever talks to me about my immigration, right, no
one's ever asked how I care what's going on or
when I got naturalized, nothing saying no one cares.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
You're not gonna get randomly picked up off the street
just because of what you look like.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
You know, That's what I mean. It's just like another
racist thing. And I'm also sick of people posting going,
this is not what our country is. Where is this
country gone? Like get a clue, yea, It's always been
this from the moment the whites settled here.

Speaker 4 (01:02:18):
They've been murdering and racist.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
So like stop like that bothers me too, of like
I can't believe this.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
And yeah, really clutching your pearls about it. Yeah, it's
like fucking nuts, Like have you not watched footage from
like any other decade. It's hard not to spin out.
It is hard.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Yeah, yeah, it's really hard not to spin out because
it's like it's all the red string. It's also interconnected
and insidious and gross, and people are so suffering.

Speaker 4 (01:02:49):
People are suffering. I mean I literally.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Watched this awful video yesterday that I can't stop thinking
about of this guy getting taken so forcibly and his
two adult sons are marines, Like he came to this country,
made a better life for himself, not a fucking criminal,
had two kids that grew up and fought for our country,
and they're just tackling him on the pavement like a
fucking animal. Like it's awful, Like I can't, I just

(01:03:15):
it's it's so fucked.

Speaker 4 (01:03:16):
But but it's all this and that's where do you
see the news.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
It's the dehumanization of these people and like yeah, all right,
keep going.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
Keep yeah, I'm sorry, Okay, we're back at this fucking
trial with this asshole on the stand.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
He's and I'm sorry, we keep spinning out. It's hard, Yeah,
it's hard.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
This episode is really like so we've probably never done
an episode except for the episode we've done about abortion
right before they took away Row, Like this is so
what's happening right now? He says, So he makes this
comment about the anchor babies and then and then they're like,
well but not if their children are dead, right, Like
they would have to go back to their country.

Speaker 4 (01:03:49):
And he goes, I must have been crazy to.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Hurt those kids, like he's really putting on a little
show here, and he's like, I know murder is a sin,
but when I watched Flashpoint, it all made sense, and
like Gordon said, we had to do something. He said,
desperate times call for desperate measures, and a true patriot
never shirks his duty. And he says, like that's the thing,
like these guys I think on Fox News and stuff
do use buzzwords to get like guys that are either

(01:04:15):
military or like these hyper masculine guys, like you got
to be a patriot. You got to do your duty,
You got to help the country. It's on you and
only you. And he's like the guy. Thaggard goes, I'm
not smart or rich and powerful, but I love my country,
and Gordon says love isn't enough and you have to
prove it.

Speaker 4 (01:04:33):
So I did, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
And he's like, I'm so sorry I killed those kids,
and he's crying and I don't care. I'm not moved
by the tears. He wishes he never listened to Gordon Garrison.
And now it's Cabot's turn, and she's also not buying
the tears, and she's like, wow, you really thought a
true patriot would brutally murder three children, And Gordon Gordon goes, well,
this is a war and soldiers have to kill. It's like,
you're on the coastguard, bro, Like, I'm sorry, I don't think.

(01:04:58):
I don't know, like I'm not just different branches of
the military, but I doubt this guy ever fucking killed
anyone in the military.

Speaker 4 (01:05:04):
And then get ready for this. Cabot's got receipts.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
This motherfucker was dishonorably discharged for calling his CEO a
racial slur and refusing to take orders from him because
he was he was Latino. And he goes, but I
don't blame him, I blame Affirmative Action for that. So
Cabot's like, oh, so you've always been a homegrown American racist,
even before Flashpoint. And then there's an objection, but Cabot
moves on and she goes, So, if you thought this

(01:05:28):
was the best idea ever, why didn't you call up
the show and tell Garrison what you did? Like that
loser kid who calls up the BJ Cameron show in
the episode Obscene, Like at least he's like, BJ made
me do it, and BJ says, somebody go do this,
and then the kid does it, and then he calls and.

Speaker 4 (01:05:43):
Says I did it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
This guy's really trying to draw like a lot of
parallels with this.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
Fucking and also like, yeah, you're acting like a tough guy,
but you're like, hey, little daddy, do you like the
crime I committed?

Speaker 4 (01:05:53):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
I did it for you. Yeah, That's how I feel
with the Rogan Bros. And all these agro comics. I'm like,
you're all sucking the little tit this man and don't
have anything without aminy it.

Speaker 4 (01:06:02):
You feel like you're some like masculine person. It's weird.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Yeah, so yeah, this fucking guy like committed these crimes
in this guy's honor, but then never like got in
touch with him to sort of say anything about.

Speaker 4 (01:06:14):
It, and not like a little letter, a little tweet.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
Nothing, but like of course he probably don't want to
get caught. But he looks at her he goes, ma'am,
that never occurred to me. It's like freaky, how much
this guy's personality is sort of like shifts, like he
shifts from being like I'm an innocent brainwashing victim to like, oh, yeah,
well I did call my coo a bad word, but
that's because he should not have the position that he has,

(01:06:39):
and he only got it because of the color of
his skin, you know, Like he's nuts, this guy, and
he doesn't even realize how to fake it the right way.
And Cabot's like, yeah, that's because like you weren't actually brainwashed,
you're a murderer who didn't want to get caught. So
then outside now I don't know if we're all recess
or whatever. Finn approaches Carver and he's like, I don't
understand why you're defending the fucking nutball, and Carver's like, well,

(01:07:02):
Thaggard's a symptom.

Speaker 4 (01:07:03):
Flagger's a symptom, not the disease, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
And Carver puts Garrison in the same sentence with beck
O'Reilly Limbaugh. All of them are like a cancer spreading
ignorance and hate. And I will say, as somebody who
grew up listening to Rush Limbaugh in the car with
my father every single day, it was quite easy for
me to go, oh no, not these guys. Not these guys.

(01:07:27):
Like I don't know, I think we're all free thinkers.
I wish everyone could just be like, yeah, you don't
have to just what your parents were watching and getting
exposing you to. It doesn't have to be like the
end all be all, And I think that is true
with a lot of people, like passes down from family
to family. But anyway he goes, they convince Americans that
immigrants are to blame instead of corporations that don't pay

(01:07:48):
a living wage or a broken healthcare system.

Speaker 4 (01:07:50):
So Finn tells him save the soapbox.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Even though it's like he's correct, Finn, like you could
obviously just agree with him on his points. But then
Carver gets to the real reas why he's defending this
piece of shit, and it's because his daddy was in
the KKK.

Speaker 4 (01:08:05):
Daddy was in the clan, and when.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
He asks, when he asked his dad why they did lynchings,
his dad said, son, some men just need killing. And
then Finn's like, okay, so daddy issues. It's pretty funny,
Like he like opens up and is like, my dad
was this horrible person and I ended the cycle. And
Finn's like, hm, daddy issues. And so he's like, well,

(01:08:28):
if you get baggered off on this charge, then the
KKK is gonna be pumped, so maybe you'll get your
very own hood. And Carver's like, I hate the Klan
and everything they stand for, but they did teach me
that a good man can be swept up by evil forces.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
No, your dad was the bad man.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
Yeah, And also, what about this thaggared guy makes you
think he's good when before he even watched Flashpoint he
was discharged from the military because he could not take
orders from somebody from a different race. He was a
racist from the beginning, Like, I don't It's like, it's
really kind of not vibing for me here that this guy's.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
Like no because he can't admit that his dad was bad.
You know, it's always like oh, makes me say blah
blah blah. It's like, why don't I don't know he
liked the lynching. I think that's bad.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
Yeah, But it's like we didn't even bring in a,
we didn't even bring in a huong for this faggared guy.
We don't even have like a diagnosis to blame anything on.
We're just saying full brainwashing from a Fox News type show.

Speaker 4 (01:09:23):
So he's like, basically.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
Carver's point is these kids would be alive if Garrison
hadn't driven Thaggard to kill And it's a fucking reach,
is what I wrote in my notes. So now we
got Garrison on the stand and Carver's questioning him and like,
like smarminess and scumbaggery is just like emanating off of
this guy, like he's a perfect like casting and he's
playing it so perfect, like he's so shitty and grossed.

Speaker 4 (01:09:51):
A second, you see him on the stand and they're like,
so in the.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
Past, I think he's a good guy and legally blonde
two though he has like a gay dog.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
Oh yeah, and in like my cousin Vinnie, I think
he's just like one of the cops in the town and.

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
Like, yeah, he's not always bad, but.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
He's good the face, yea yeah, and he they Carver's like, well,
how many episodes have you done on immigration and undocumented
immigrants in the past year? And he's like, I don't know,
and he's like, it's fifty seven. You've done fifty seven
episodes about that in a year, Like, there's only fifty
two weeks in a year. I don't know how many
often this guy's on, like on television, but that's a

(01:10:27):
lot of fucking episodes. And then they're like and how
many times have you used xyz slurs? And he's like,
I lose track, Like he thinks this was all hilarious,
and he's like and then the courtroom is wild. People
are getting up, they're yelling shit, like one guy's like,
real Americans love Gordon and another guy's like, no, real
Americans think he's a fascist pig, and that guy's got merch,

(01:10:49):
Like I don't even know what's going on. The courtroom
is nuts, and Lois Preston does not care for that shit.

Speaker 4 (01:10:55):
She's like quiet in my courtroom.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
So now Garrison is like obviously cowering behind the Amendment
as usual, and they're like, well, you can't say anything.
You know, you can't yell fire in a building if
it's burning, and he's like, well you can if the
building's burning.

Speaker 4 (01:11:08):
And make no mistake, this country is a blaze.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
Like he's even like doing his Fox News performative shit
on the stand, right, and he says, I never told
anyone to kill anyone. And Carver points out one of
his quotes, which is someone should send these people back
to where they came from on a boat, or on
the back of a truck, or even in a pine box.
And he's like, I didn't mean murder, and it's like,
you didn't mean murder. You said send them back in
a coffin. What are you talking about? Joe Thaggert took

(01:11:34):
you at your word. So now it's Cabot's turn and
she's like, have you ever met Joe Thaggard?

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
That's the thing too, These dudes that are willing to
risk it all for these Fox News punda or whatever
they're brainwashed by. These people, wouldn't even sit at a
table with them.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
Yeah, they wouldn't piss on you if you were fire
disgusted by Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:11:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
So now Cabot goes, she asks Garrison, have you ever
met Thaggard before? And he's like nope. He goes mail
from him? Have you ever messaged with him anything?

Speaker 4 (01:12:03):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
No, no, They've had zero contact, And they're like, so,
what do you think about this brainwashing charge, and he goes,
it's hogwash, folks. I'm just a social thermometer taking the
temperature of the people. And Cabot goes rectly and I
think it's funny. Judge Lois Preston finds the joke a
little distasteful. She's not a fan, okay. And then Garrison
quotes Voltaire, which is my dad's favorite fucking quote that

(01:12:27):
he used to quote all the time, and which is
one that free speech warriors love to invoke, which is
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it. And uh,
Cabot is like, well, that's not Voltaire, and I love that.
I looked it up. It's not Voltaire. It's like it's
from it's a female author who wrote that, and it's
from a book that's called like Friends of Voltaire or

(01:12:47):
something like that. But she kind of is like, so
you're kind of full of shit, like you don't even
know who you're quoting right now, and you kind of
bend the truth that you're will like you want. She
goes in for the kill. She's like, you know, your
views make me on a barf. I don't see some
god to his followers. I see an impotent man peddling
in hate to line his pockets. Garrison looks at her.
See I can't say impotent. They don't, they can't know.

(01:13:11):
How dare you talk about my little wiener. Garrison looks
at her. He's seething. This guy goes, watch your tone, sweetheart,
and Cabot goes, or what you'll do?

Speaker 4 (01:13:22):
What to me?

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
You are a powerless buffoon, an entertaining clown. Half the
people who watch you just watch to laugh at you.
No one takes you seriously. And I'm like living. I
like love.

Speaker 4 (01:13:33):
I want.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
I love hearing her like say all this to this
fucking guy. And he can't really do anything because he's
in court, but he doesn't fucking care. He stands up
on the stand, points a finger at Cabot like it's
a fucking Salem witch hunt, and goes, you're gonna.

Speaker 4 (01:13:46):
Let her talk to me that way?

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
And immediately some fucking in cel loser follower of his
stands up and yells, go to hell, bitch, and like
Cabot turns around and you can see that she's like,
oh my god, because the courtroom just like erupts, like
the liberal start defending her. Everyone in the courtroom starts
fighting with each other. There's little like one on one
fights going on where people are pushing each other and fighting.

(01:14:08):
Lois Preston has to have the jury removed. It's like
pure chaos. And Carver starts yelling like look at this,
like of course they're brainwashed. One word from this guy
and they're throwing punches. And Garrison sits there like some
mug as a bug. He's got like a Donald Trump
fucking smug grin on his face.

Speaker 4 (01:14:25):
But it sucks, and she knows she fucked up. She proved,
she proved. Yeah, she went a little bit. She I
don't think she.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
Thought that he would actually like sick his dogs on her,
and then proved the whole point, you know, And Carver
is like, Garrison is responsible for all of this.

Speaker 4 (01:14:42):
So this is fucked, And the next scene.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
The jury is back, all three counts of murder in
the second degree not guilty. First of all, I don't
know why this guy. If you're so easily brainwashed, then
you need to be in a facility, like you shouldn't
be on the street then, like you.

Speaker 4 (01:14:56):
Are a danger to others.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
If if a Fox News host tells you to do something,
you do it like you're a danger to others. But
I guess they hear his weepy sorry and they think
he's okay. But also, how the fuck was this not
first degree murder? I know, we've got all of our
law lawyer people that like watch the show but listen
to us. But the guy had photos of the kids

(01:15:18):
on the playground, like this was super premeditated, Like how
could it be second degree? I don't understand, Like you
take pictures, you stalk children, you find out where they are,
you follow them and kill them and leave them in
a thing. Like that's first degree murder to me, I
don't understand, but someone can let me know.

Speaker 3 (01:15:33):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
But Thaggard when he hears the verdict, he's all smiles.
He leans over and whispers something to Carver, and you
can see their shock on Carver's face, and then Thaggar
just walks off. Okay, Like I just can't believe that
there wouldn't be, like you have some kind of probation,
like some kind of person has to check in on
you to make sure you're not murdering.

Speaker 4 (01:15:54):
I don't know, I just don't. It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
But now Cabin and Finn are chatting at the office
by the light of a very dim lamp as usual
about how this all happened. Cabot's like, it's my fault.
I underestimated Carver. I made Thaggard look like a hard
knock life loser with his tear filled apology and Juri's
love that shit. So also Garrison looked like a psycho

(01:16:16):
with his freaky fans, like it all.

Speaker 4 (01:16:17):
Was kind of like a perfect storm to get this
guy off.

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
And now Finn is at the bar, Nicole walks in
shows him a paper he finally made the front page,
but it's a fucking child killing psychopath. It's a picture
of Thaggard on the front with the headline Gordon got
me off. And she tries to buy Fin a drink,
but he's like, I'm not going to be much fun
and like I just wrote damn.

Speaker 4 (01:16:40):
The way he just.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
Keeps running away from this gorgeous woman who wants to
fuck him is wild, like it's so nuts. Then he
gets a phone call and it's Carver. He picks up
and he's like, what do you want? And then he's like,
all right, I'll meet you in a minute. So Nichole's
like call me after I'll wait up. I mean, she
wants this dick so bad. She's like, I will do
anything to see all this deal. Oh wait up, bitch,

(01:17:02):
go to bed. I have showed up at your office.
I am showing up at the bar, I am everywhere
trying to get you in bed. She's like, just call me, like,
I don't even care what time you get home. Call
me and I'm ready. And anyway, Finn shows up at
Carver's office and Carver's like, do you want to know
what Thaggard whispered to me after the verdict? And Finn's like, yeah, sure,

(01:17:24):
lay it on me, and he whispered, thanks, Now I
can go kill more of those kids, And Finn's like, whoa,
we got to stop him. But then Carver like moves
out of the way and behind him he can now
see that Thaggard is lying on the floor dead in
a pool of blood, and Carver hands Finn this the
murder weapon, this like little pistol gun and that's dick

(01:17:47):
wolf baby.

Speaker 4 (01:17:49):
So in the end we can get Carver off. Yeah,
It's like.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Hopefully, It's like he I mean, he could probably say
I have traumatic I had a traumatic life being raised
by a racist and it triggered me. And now like
I felt I had to stop him. I bet a
jury would let him off. But all right, take me.
I mean, I'm like, take me through the crimes. But
I don't want you to, but I do. It's not

(01:18:14):
dead kids, so I guess, yeah's good. Yeah, dead adults.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
Okay, okay, Well, first of well, I'll go into the
anchor baby of it all. Like Kara said, it's fucked
up derogatory and insinuates that these children are just ponds
used by their immigrant parents to get a foothold in
the US, you know, and it misrepresents the harsh realities

(01:18:41):
of actual life for immigrant people and like people that
are dealing with immigration law. And it's much more complicated
than like let me land here and give birth. So
like it's also it just like I don't know, it
means these parents that they're using their children and they
didn't want to be just parents. But also a child
is to be twenty one years old before they can

(01:19:02):
sponsor their parents for a green card, and then they
have to be financially able to support their parents as well,
and that's just for five years and then they can
try to apply for naturalization. So it is a twenty
six year endeavor. It's not a tactic. It's just the
fucked up talking point. It's a myth. It's not real.

Speaker 1 (01:19:22):
Yeah. And if you like didn't love your kid and
you just had them for like a reason to stay
in quote unquote the greatest country in the world, which
I'm so fucking sick of people saying, like if people like,
if you had a kid just for that, you better
be super nice to them for twenty one years so
that they sponsor your damn green card because they don't
have to if they don't want.

Speaker 2 (01:19:40):
Because I'm thinking about the actress from Orange Is the
New Black whose parents got deported like years ago, but
like she was born here, so it's like it's not
just this thing of like, oh, my baby's a baby
and a citizen and now so am I like yeestly.

Speaker 4 (01:19:55):
That's not it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
I also didn't know that it takes as long, but like, yeah,
so it's like a twenty six year journey at Diana Guerrero, Yeah,
thank you. And Republicans are always trying to get rid
of birthright citizenship also, so like right now, that is
what our president is talking about it's the fourteenth Amendment.

Speaker 4 (01:20:11):
Like, if you're born here, you're citizen.

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):
They're trying to take that away too, like as we speak,
and they always have and so they yeah, whatever, so then.

Speaker 4 (01:20:20):
Who get hot?

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Oh my god, I just don't I don't understand how
you could hear that and not think that's fascist like
that somebody gets to decide who are citizens and who
are not.

Speaker 2 (01:20:29):
Yeah, but this the term also didn't crop up until
the early two thousands. Yeah, and that's very like nine.

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
I read this term on this show like when I
was I remember being like, what's that like when I
watched this in two thousand and nine.

Speaker 4 (01:20:44):
So, but it's rude as fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:20:46):
And I say something else on social media that it's
like the reason these fucked up people don't get like
immigrants or people like risking it all to come here
is because they're such shitty parents. They can never imagine
risking their lives and they're like comfort their future all
of that just for their children. Like I think a
lot of parents suck and that's why they don't get it. Yeah,

(01:21:08):
they don't get traversing through like the fucking Amazon to
get for their kids, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:21:14):
And like learning language, like a career.

Speaker 2 (01:21:18):
Yeah, like people that were doctors, scientists, engineers, where they
came from having to do like service work or like
different work here where they're so disrespect just so their
kid could then go to school. Like these motherfucking hillbillies
can't even fathom. They don't even read to their kids.
These people don't read to their kids. Of course they
don't get immigrants, of course they don't. You don't even

(01:21:42):
show up to parent teacher conferences like and you're gonna
tell other parents what they can do, all right, Okay,
So this is two cases. The Laramie price case, so
a year and a half after New York City, like
after nine to eleven obviously, Okay, So so it's the
year and a half after nine elevee and obviously, like
the city went through a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:22:03):
I was not here for it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
But this So it's two thousand and three and there's
a series of shooting deaths and they're all targeted at shopkeepers.
Shortly before seven am on February eighth, two thousand and three,
a man named John Freddie, who's forty three years old,
was shot while drinking coffee in an Ozone park Queen's
Mini Market. Surveillance showed two men enter the store, one
started to shoot and then they both ran out. And

(01:22:28):
then that same day, two hours later, Suckedjit goes by
Sammy kind of like my dad Sam and Sam So.
Sammy Kajala was fifty and he was found fatally shot
behind the counter of his bodega in Brooklyn, and then
he also shot at another worker but missed, okay, And
these were seen as isolated incidents, so it was just like, oh,

(01:22:51):
you know, like one they're not close to each other.
It's just different bodegas. It's shooting crimes, like nothing really
happened March. In terms of an investigation, March tenth, two
thousand and three, that's when a connection between the murders
was kind of put together because there was a thirty
two year old man named Albert Cotlier was found murdered
in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, in a laundromat where he worked.

(01:23:14):
He was shot once at the counter and that was that.
And so then the connection was this forty caliber handgun
was used in all three of these, so there was
a shellcasing found and so they connected it to these
other two, but they still didn't understand the connection of
these places and these like why these men were getting murdered.
It also was not robbery you're thinking Bodego laundr or whatever.

(01:23:36):
No money was taken at all, Like money would be
gone if it was like quoted, which was funny, like
Lieutenant John Cornicello former NYC Brooklyn North homicide and his quotes,
just like if it was a robbery, the money would
be gone. It's like, thanks, lieutenant, thanks amazing. So this

(01:23:57):
but the this storre had like a like a camera
and it captured a loan gunman coming in and shooting
Cotler after using the shop's bathroom. And then they were
able to find fingerprints on a coffee cup outside as well,
and then the casing from the gun triggered Cornicello this
detective's memory, lieutenant's memory of two other similar homicides that

(01:24:18):
had happened like a month earlier. Both those were on
the same day.

Speaker 4 (01:24:22):
If you remember. So.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
Then investigators again where they were like, well is this
racial this? You know? Alberts Russian and he lived with
his parents and sister Freddy's from Guyana and he worked
as a dairy manager at a market near where he
was killed. And he was a married man with a
six year old son. And then we have Sammy. He's
from India, So this is married dude from India. And
so the ballistics came back the same gun has been

(01:24:46):
used all shot in the head as well, and so
then idea of a cereal caused a lot of fear
through the city and inspector veto Spano.

Speaker 4 (01:24:56):
Sorry, it's just like it sounds like a sandwich. So
that name's related to Jesse Spano.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
Yeah, you know, the Jimmy John Sandwich, all of our
own beautiful things. But he was cold case squad, but
they put him on ahead of this. So it's a
twenty member task force and it's to catch this forty
caliber killer as the case was known. And again like
they just really were not able to find a motive.

(01:25:22):
And then so finally they were getting footage from any
cameras they could, like gas stations anywhere, and they found
a man that was dressed like the person like the shooter. Yeah,
and so they're watching footage of him. He's climbing over
this iron fence to get into the property. So that's
like a huge clue, like the outfit climbing into the
property so that was good. We they also noticed that
the suspects had a limp and he wore a Boston

(01:25:46):
like a Boston sports hat, okay, and.

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
They're saying anything, and he kept his sicker.

Speaker 2 (01:25:53):
So then a sketch artist came in and created a
rendering from the footage and released it to the public
with like a twenty thousand dollars reward for any information.
But then on March twentieth, there was another shooting out
of Brooklyn bodega.

Speaker 4 (01:26:06):
Two victims. Both these people were from Yemen.

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
Mohammed Abdo Nasser a Lee was fifty four dead on
the scene and Jakob Aldalim was twenty and he was
shot hiding behind the counter and was rushed to the
hospital and survived. So thank god. And I'm sorry if
I'm mispronouncing the names. I do respect these people. But anyway, so,

(01:26:29):
but there was a witness, so that's what's great. So
then the witness said that the shooter was black in
his late twenties. And again no money was taken from
this scene either, but a new gun was used, and
so you know, all of a sudden, everywhere it's the
forty caliber killer and so then it's like, uh oh,
so he switched it up to a nine milimeter handgun,
but they felt like it was the same guy. They

(01:26:50):
asked for the media for help because they were not
able to solve the crime, and then a tipster called
and claimed, like, I know for sure who this is.
So it was at the seventy seventh Precinct and Crown
Heights in Brooklyn. NYP detectives interviewed this tipster and it
was this man, a thirty one year old named Larmie Price,
and he goes, you know, this sketch reminds me of
one of my neighbors. But as soon as he left,

(01:27:12):
they're like, no, that's actually the dude, Like that's the guy.
Later like this seems too shady. We don't think it's
a neighbor. He's talking about himself. And so when he
came there, they called him. They're like, we need you
to come back for a second interview. And when he
came back, they're like, oh, he's limping, like this is
our guy, and then he just confessed. He goes, you know,
I'm the guy you're looking for, Like what's up with

(01:27:32):
you guys? And this is according to corna Cello, and
so they grilled him, and he knew all the details
that weren't released as well. Coffee cup the fence. He
explained the gun switch like he just knew it. He goes, oh,
I sold the gun because I didn't have any more bullets,
and then I have this gun. He was arrested, charged
with four counts of murder, intwo of attempted murder and
when they asked him what drove him to do this,

(01:27:55):
according to Oxygen, he said he was upset over nine
to eleven and he somehow thought he would avenge this
by shooting people of Arabic and Muslim descent. His mother
said to The New York Post, Lol, I'm sorry, but
the Post that he started acting strange after the terrorist attacks,
and she remembers him saying, I'm going to join the war.

Speaker 4 (01:28:15):
And he actually did have mental health issues.

Speaker 2 (01:28:18):
He was put into Woodhall and King's County hospitals, but
according to his mom, they just kept letting him go
so God, and he was released the day before killing
his third victim. So like, in between the shootings and stuff,
he was put into mental health facility. They just released
him and then the next day he killed somebody's and
he just kept talking about how the vibes told him

(01:28:39):
to do it. It was all the vibes. He also
had a record of arrests for robbery, burglary, and a
bunch of other crimes, and then he told investigators he
was taking PCP. He then flipped on the second guy
that was with him for one of the shootings that
ran out with him. He did not have a gun
this other guy. So the DA actually decided not to
press charges on this other man because he was more

(01:29:00):
valuable as a witness. So they used him for a witness,
and Price agreed to a plea deal for serial killing
to avoid the death penalty, and he was sentenced to
life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Speaker 4 (01:29:11):
Jesus. And so that's that case.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
And then the next case is Ronald Ebens and Michael Knitz.
They're the perpetrators. Fuck that, we're going to celebrate Vincent Chin.
It's really upsetting. And okay, so Vincent Chin, So yeah,
this is really upsetting. So Vincent Chin was a Chinese
American man and he was living in Michigan. He was

(01:29:35):
a draftsman and an engineering company and he's just like
seemed cool as hell to be honest, you had like
a really cool hairdoo, you had friends like I don't know,
I just it's it's devastating. So a little history about
like cars and stuff, so like the Detroit car manufacturing
thing plays a part in the murder and the racism

(01:29:57):
of Asian people in this area and time. Basically Detroit
was a major car maker. I'm sure all of you
know that, but they wanted to avoid paying US standard salaries,
so they moved factories overseas and by nineteen eighty Japan
had taken over as the leader in the automotive industry. So,
like always, they decided to blame the immigrants, and they

(01:30:18):
started blaming Asian Americans for the decline in jobs. So
Vincent was celebrating his bachelor party. He was out with
two friends, this guy named Robert Seroski and Gary Kovu,
and they went out, they were drinking, they were having
a good time. They ended up picking up one of
their other friends, Jimmy Troy, and they ended up in
the same strip club as the two white men Ronald

(01:30:39):
and Michael Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:30:40):
And this is June nineteenth, nineteen eighty two.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
It was Ronald Eban and his step son is Michael
Nitz and he was recently laid off by Chrysler. So witnesses,
according to the Asian American Pacific Islander Resource Center, they
heard that Ebans confronted Vincent, saying it's because of you
little motherfuckers that were out of work, and they got
like heated, and Vincent did punch Ebans in the face

(01:31:07):
and they I mean they used slurs. They definitely used
slurs against him and he punched them. So but before this,
all the witnesses say they like tipped heavily, like that
they were amazing tippers, that it was celebration vibes, laughing,
like everyone was having a good time. But then like, yes,
so these two white dudes are like saying slurs talking

(01:31:30):
about cars, and I'm sure these guys were so stupid
they thought this man was Japanese and he's not, and
not that it would matter, but like fuck you. Yeah,
So whatever fights happened at strip clubs, there's you know.
So they get kicked out of the club and the
fighting continued in the parking lot. But then Ebans went
to go get a baseball bat from this car, and

(01:31:51):
when Vincent his friends saw that, they all like scattered
like they started running away, like they didn't want to
get beat by a fucking bat. And so Ebans and
Knits spent twenty minutes searching for Vincent and then found
Choi instead and threw a bottle at him. Just found
a different Asian person, so who cares. So they couldn't
find him, so they paid a third man that they
just saw, Jimmy Perry, to help him find quote a

(01:32:14):
Chinese guy. They didn't say Chinese guy, they used a
different serogatory term. And this is according to the FBI
interview notes. And so then the arman like were running
and basically they like stopped it in nearby McDonald's because
they thought like they could seek protection in the crowd
and the other two friends would eventually find them at

(01:32:36):
this McDonald's. You got to imagine, it's the eighties. There's
no phones or anything like that. So finally they they
were able to find him and in the supermarket parking
lot next to the McDonald's, Knits held him down while
Evans beat him with the baseball bat.

Speaker 4 (01:32:51):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:32:53):
Vincent was declared brain dead at henry Ford Hospital and
died on June twenty third, nineteen eighty two. And his
last words before he lost consciousness were it's not fair.
Those are his last words. And that's according to the
aapi RC. He suffered two lacerations on the back left
side of his head, abrasions on his shoulder, chest and

(01:33:14):
neck and lap and like laps lungs.

Speaker 4 (01:33:17):
And then he went to severe coma.

Speaker 2 (01:33:20):
So Jesus And at the time, Michigan crime stats didn't
even include Asian ethnicity options, so Vincent was listed as white.
This is eighty two and the crime was considered local news.
But then the verdict is what angered the Asian community
and allies nationwide. This probably could have just stayed like
a local case. But Ebans and Knits were originally charged

(01:33:43):
with second degree murder, though a plea bargain brought the
charge down to manslaughter. Each were just given three years
of probation with no jail time and find three grand
What the fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:33:56):
Why don't you think that people that beat people with
a baseball about are a day to society?

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
It gets even worse care, Okay, So then and it's
got no contests and basically they basically it's they didn't
intend to kill him, so that's why it was chiller.

Speaker 4 (01:34:11):
But the judge. This is what's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:34:13):
So Charles Kaufman, remember him, I hope you're fucking alive
and you never see piece you piece of shit, is
quoted saying these weren't the kind of men you send
to jail. You don't make the punishment fit the crime.
You make the punishment fit the criminal.

Speaker 4 (01:34:28):
Oh my god, not crazy, just saying it out loud
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:34:33):
Damn, it's kind. It's like no, even reality's even top chef.
It's like, nope, case by case basis, it doesn't matter
what you've done in the past, like you fucking murdered
a young man with a bat, like you.

Speaker 4 (01:34:45):
Can't cut, like, and what about them?

Speaker 1 (01:34:47):
Besides the fact that they were like I'm sorry, what's
what's what's a shordinay about this person? Did he go
to ivy league college? Does he work with h work
with underprivileged youth?

Speaker 2 (01:34:57):
Like?

Speaker 4 (01:34:57):
What? What about him is so extraordinary that he gets
away with murder?

Speaker 2 (01:35:00):
The Detroit News printed a large cartoon that showed the
shit judge putting a baseball bat in one ear as
if it were a pencil, and sharpening it with a
pencil sharpener installed in the opposite ear. What was even
more fucked was the prosecutor missed the sentencing hearing. There
was no prosecutor there because I guess back in these days,
sensing hearings weren't considered like important crucial to the case,

(01:35:25):
and so no one was representing the state's case. The
judge did not hear from any of Vincent's friends family.
His mother, Lily Chen wasn't even told about the hearing.
So the judge only heard from these two hillbilly killers
and their lawyer, and that was it. No witnesses, no
one that was there that night, no one, and so okay,
But all of this outrage ended up being a catalyst

(01:35:47):
for the American Citizens of Justice, this organization to be formed,
and they petitioned the US Department of Justice to investigate
Vincent's case as a violation of his civil rights. So
the Department of Justice opened in an investigation, which served
as the first time Asian Americans were protected as like
you know, like as a hate crime situation and viewed

(01:36:08):
as a protected class. So then it was acceptable to
like that it like because of their Asian ness is
what impeded on his civil rights because it with double jeopardy,
they can't like go back for that case, like I'm
you know, this gets kind of complicated. But the federal
grand jury indicted Ebans and Knits on two counts of
interfering with Vincent Chin's right to be in a place

(01:36:30):
of public accommodation and conspiring to do so. The two
of them kept claiming that race had nothing to do
with it, but the jury in Detroit did disagree, like
the grand jury, and so in June nineteen eighty four,
Ebans was found guilty of interfering which in civil rights,
but not guilty of conspiracy, and Knits was found not
guilty on both charges. So in nineteen eighty four, the

(01:36:53):
US District Court sentenced Ebans to twenty five years in prison,
but he was released two years later because of him
like an improper prosecution, witness coaching like so whatever, you know,
appeals court, appeals court. It became successful because of the
errors that the government made during the first trial. So
then they tried to do a new trial and retry him,

(01:37:15):
and the trial was moved to Cincinnati, and Cincinnati the
jury was you know, like just like Eban's white male,
blue collar and cleared Ebans of all charges in a
civil suit though he was ordered to pay one point
five million dollars to the chin estate and with interest
in all these years, it's up to like eight million dollars,

(01:37:36):
but he will not pay it. He can't afford it,
quote unquote. He lives paycheck to paycheck and like just refuses.
And he was basically begging for the lean on his
home in Nevada to be removed. But you still owe money,
so you can't. So basically like what the lien means,
he cannot rent or sell this home that he lives in.
But he purposely moved to Nevada because of their like
a homestead act and he thought it would like help

(01:37:59):
him not have to pay this and also then tried
to set a motion to ask for the family to
pay for his attorney's fees psycho, but his house wasn't
worth enough to get this whatever act this is.

Speaker 4 (01:38:15):
He was too poor for it. So he still owes money.
He has to stay there.

Speaker 2 (01:38:18):
He cannot sell it or rent it or anything, and
they're supposed to get money, but he goes whatever. The
family is just harassing me and doing it to annoy
me and ask and like you moved on purpose to
avoid paying for a life.

Speaker 4 (01:38:32):
You took no justice at all, like.

Speaker 1 (01:38:34):
No accountability, Like no, yeah, it's so is the victim.

Speaker 2 (01:38:38):
And the judge thought this was just a great guy,
a great guy who just shouldn't go to jail. You
don't base it on the crime, just the person, these
cool guys. So journalists and activists. Helen Zia, who is
an executor of the Chinn estate, told NBC News that
the request is upsetting. It is beyond outrageous that this

(01:38:59):
un remorseful killer is suing for attorney's fees that would
allow him to continue evading payment for beating Vincent Chin
to death twenty three years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:39:09):
So the case did.

Speaker 2 (01:39:10):
Expose like this fucked up thing that happened with the judge.
And basically, now for manslaughter cases in Michigan, there's a
mandatory minimum sentence guideline and the state Supreme Court adopted
this and put it into state legislator legislature.

Speaker 4 (01:39:27):
So basically the.

Speaker 2 (01:39:27):
Guidelines say a judge could issue a sentence below the minimum,
but they have to give reason why, like specific reason.
So this judge was just able to be like, never mind,
these guys are good, go on probation, and now you
for a manslaughter, you have to give the minimum or
the judge has to prove and explain why they're not
giving the minimum, which I can't believe.

Speaker 4 (01:39:48):
This has to be a rule.

Speaker 2 (01:39:51):
This case also helped ensure that victims and future cases
would be represented during sentencing and court proceedings. Lily Chin,
the mom did die in two thousand and two tho
never he never paid any financial debt to her that
she was owed. And then if you want to know
more about him, there's a PBS show Who Killed Vincent Chin?

(01:40:12):
Also into twenty twenty four, the FBI posted an over
six hundred page report on this crime that you can
look into. And Ebans is still alive. So if we
want to do a that's messed up field trip and
throw eggs at his house either its something.

Speaker 1 (01:40:29):
Like satisfying though about the fact that like even if
this guy wins the lottery or something or he gets
like a great job, like he'll never be able to
like really like he has to give money, like they'll
they'll garnish his wages. I'm sure you know, like you
kid never but the fact that like even in it's
such a miscarri forties fifties, like truly putting Japanese people

(01:40:51):
in internment camps in our country, and then by the
eighties it's still like Asian people were not a protected
class against taate crimes. Like, I don't understand how you
how that works. You imprisoned a whole population because of

(01:41:12):
their race, and yet they're not protected under for the race.

Speaker 4 (01:41:16):
Yeah what Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:41:21):
But also yeah, it's like this guy being fucking angry
at Japan and then just killing a random fucking Chinese
person is out of control.

Speaker 4 (01:41:30):
And it sucks. He was a cool dude. It was
like a bachelor party.

Speaker 2 (01:41:33):
He was probably about, you know, about to get married,
like living a good life.

Speaker 4 (01:41:37):
And I, you know, you know who was a good
member of society.

Speaker 2 (01:41:40):
This guy, Vincent Instin could have done more for this
world than this Ebans and his dumb ass son could
ever And I just I I'm going to track his
death and fucking spit on his grave.

Speaker 4 (01:41:52):
I hope he can't afford a gravestone.

Speaker 1 (01:41:54):
All right, Well, no guests, so let's just go right
in to our post mortem.

Speaker 4 (01:42:06):
This episode is sad. I feel sad.

Speaker 1 (01:42:09):
Okay, So yeah, no guests to cleanse the palette after
you're just telling us about a very nice man that
was murdered because of what he looks like and where
he's from. But fuck, I don't know. I don't know
what the post mortem is for this episode. Besides don't
be racist, Yeah, don't be racist.

Speaker 2 (01:42:29):
And if I really biases, go check them out, like
figure them out, figure them out.

Speaker 4 (01:42:36):
Figure that shit out.

Speaker 1 (01:42:37):
Why does somebody being quote unquote undocument Why does somebody
be undocumented or not in this country the way you
think they should be. How does that affect you? I
need to know, I really need to know why people
think this.

Speaker 4 (01:42:52):
But I know what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
It's like, it's just people are being fed incorrect statistics
about not paying taxes, not or sucking welfare.

Speaker 4 (01:43:01):
Out of our country, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (01:43:03):
But they but then he's going to get the big
beautiful bill signed this week, which is going to cut
a lot of welfare for actual people that need it.

Speaker 2 (01:43:09):
So but also they also constantly are voting against rich
people paying more taxes, like they want the poorest of
the poor UNDOCU whatever, like whatever idea of a single
mother they have in their head, like how dare you
not pay taxes? But then the but then it's like,
let's just tax the one percent so we can get
free buses. And it's like we will murder you, like, hey,

(01:43:31):
I don't understand. I don't understand. It's so pathetic. It's pathetic.

Speaker 1 (01:43:35):
And everybody is saying all of this shit about the
the the how the last election was decided about the
price of eggs. It's like, do you think that when
we are like deporting people who have done nothing wrong
on masks, who are farm workers some of them, how
is that gonna?

Speaker 4 (01:43:51):
How's that going to go for the eggs?

Speaker 1 (01:43:52):
You know, if that's your most important fucking issue, this
whole thing is look over there. So while they're like
robbing the lower the lower and middle class like blind,
like truly, like they're just like this these new bills,
like we're all fucked. But listen, let's get into our
what would Sister Peg do for the week. This is
our weekly segment where we point you to an organization

(01:44:14):
or a book or a documentary something to give you
more info about what we talked about. And we wanted
to appoint you this week to the organization Stop AAPI
Hate in honor of you know, Vincent Chin, this victim
from you know, thirty years ago. And I would like
to think things are better, but honey, you know it's
forty forty forty years ago. Excuse me, pardon me sorry,

(01:44:36):
eighty two forty years ago, forty plus this uh. Stop
AAPI Hate is a US based coalition dedicated to fighting
racism and discrimination against Asian American and Pacific islanders. Their
core strategies include data and research, policy and advocacy, community care,
and strategic communications. They publish data and research quote to
paint a vivid and nuanced picture of racism and other

(01:44:59):
forms of bigotry as it is experienced by our communities.

Speaker 4 (01:45:03):
So for more info on that, head.

Speaker 1 (01:45:05):
Over to Stop aapihete dot org and that will be
linked in our show notes as usual in our Instagram
stories at That's Messed Up Pod and those stories get
saved forever in our WWSPD highlights.

Speaker 4 (01:45:17):
So thank you so much for that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:20):
And next week we will be doing the episode in
Foghorn Leghorn accents, so stay tuned for that. Betrayals Climax
Season fifteen, Episode thirteen.

Speaker 4 (01:45:32):
Buckle up, bitches, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:45:34):
Gonna be another wild one by wild and upsetting and graphic.

Speaker 4 (01:45:38):
Yeah, see you next week.

Speaker 2 (01:45:48):
That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right Production.

Speaker 1 (01:45:50):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
That's Messed Up on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:46:03):
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.

Speaker 1 (01:46:10):
As always, please see our show notes for sources and
more information.

Speaker 2 (01:46:14):
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.

Speaker 1 (01:46:20):
Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner.

Speaker 2 (01:46:24):
And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly
Geen Andrews for our artwork.

Speaker 1 (01:46:28):
Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff,
Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

Speaker 4 (01:46:36):
Dun Dun

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