Betrayal's Climax w/ Fiona Robert

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up, an

(00:31):
SVU podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger and we're coming
at you fast, JK stuttering, We're coming at you stuttering
s crimes celeb guests. We always have a great time
here with the background of murder and sexual crimes, and
life's been so hectic and wild.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
We're in the.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Time machine, I'm, you know, traveling around. But obviously we're
very happy for mom Donnie's win. And also I I
do feel really naive. I didn't expect the racism to
get so crazy, but like, of course no, I.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
I for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
But so the next day I got on my phone,
I was like, oh my god, I don't it was.
It's really fucked up. And at the end of the day,
he won, So get behind him. What the fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Get behind him?

Speaker 2 (01:23):
All these money democrats going against him, the president talking
about deporting him at like and taking away his citizenship,
and everyone thought I was crazy when I started being like,
well my passports is born in Ukraine, I'm traveling, I'm nervous,
and everyone's like, shut up, that's not real.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
You're a citizen. And it's like literally to arrest him.
He didn't even just stay deported. He's like arrest him. Yeah,
like he's he's a he didn't show up to the field.
I mean, he is scum. There's no depths to the scumminess.
So I'm never shocked by his behavior. But like the
Party of the People, Deborah Messing, are you unhinged, bitch?
Oh well, a lot of a lot of Jews are
having a problem with him. Yeah, because the race, you

(02:00):
know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Like, at the end of the day, all the stuff
that they're saying he said, he has not said.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
He does not say those things.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
A Jewish friend of mine was like, well he did
this in this and also his mom tried to get
Galgadot banned from the OSCARS, and I went, I wrote
back and go, I don't think we should judge anybody based.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
On their mom. I mean, my parents vote for Trump,
you know, like I can't.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
I don't think we could judge people based on what
their parents, Do you know what I mean? But also yeah,
it's I've heard him say plenty of things that make
me feel like he's a great, a great canidate, but
he does not.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
H I I am a Jew in New York. What
are we talking?

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Like?

Speaker 1 (02:39):
I would rather get a free bus.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
And I also like what he said on one of
the late night shows where it's like, I guess Mayor
Koch said this back in the day, but of like,
if you agree with me on nine.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Out of twelve issues, you should vote for me.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
If you believe if you agree with me on twelve
out of twelve, you should get a psychiological exam. Like
you don't have to agree with everything someone does. But
today it's the problem the sex pest fucking freaks. Eric
Adams is a criminal. He's bought up for by the
fascist government. Like what the fuck are you talking about?
I know?

Speaker 4 (03:10):
And that's I think this is where like we as liberals,
as democrats are going to have problems because people want
perfect candidates. They want someone they agree with, they want
someone they agree with ninety perfect.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
They're fine with him, Oh I know, but I.

Speaker 4 (03:26):
Mean and like it's like exactly what you're saying, though,
if you agree with me on nine out of twelve issues,
that then you should we should be able to work
together and move forward and see you hed to head.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Day to day.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
When you talk to someone it's like, well, but they
said that one thing. Oh, but they did a thing
when they were in college. It's like, I don't care,
Like we gotta like start seeing coming to some common
groundy or we're never gonna surely when you're okay with
sexual abusing. But Cuomo should have been a non starter.
I was talking to a friend who's not into mom
Donnie because she thinks that socialists.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Just make a lot of noise. That's her only reason.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
And I was like, Okay, She's like she doesn't think
that they get anything done. That he's young and he's
not gonna do anything. Okay, I go, what's your option?
You're gonnavote for Curtis Sleewa. Come on, Like someone was
telling me that Cuamo was gonna try to get it
back on the ballot. Yes, the name of rich men
can ever just quit. They wait for their second chance.
But I want to fourth, fifth, seventh chance.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
To American Jews, I mean, did I write a bunch
of comments and delete them? Off Deborah Messing his page.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
I have.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
The people that tried to burn down Jake Shapiro's house,
white supremacist. The people that are shooting the Tree of
Life Synagogue terrorist attack, shooting that was a white supremacist.
The people that are the biggest danger, the fucking dude
that shot up Jews when I was a kid, that

(04:44):
was a white supremacist. If we are talking about safety
of Jewish people, the biggest threat is white supremacy. It
is never what these brown people that you're fucking scared of. Ever,
it just hasn't been. Yeah, and I I love that mom, Donnie.
When they kept bringing up Israel, was just like, I
live in New York. I'm not going anywhere. I'm here

(05:04):
to work for New York. Like, how is this even
a discussion for a New York City mayoral race?

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, and also anyone that's not.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Living here we're voting, Like I hate when they're like
the cesspol these blues, then get the fuck out. Why
are you mind your business? We don't want you here,
we don't want I don't know, it's just like crazy,
it's really upsetting.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
I don't know. But I was also I'm at a
Bernie girl.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
You know, I was like Hillary all the way, but
I now like understand what they felt, because it's like,
when the majority of people are excited about a candidate,
how dare the party go against that?

Speaker 1 (05:42):
And that's you know, that's what someone said that I liked.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
I wish I'm that Democrats fought against fascists and Republicans
as hard as they do against progressive Democrats.

Speaker 4 (05:51):
Yeah, oh my god. And honestly, I grew up listening to.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Letting the Big Bill gone like.

Speaker 4 (05:58):
Fuck all of you, fuck you I listened to. I
grew up listening to Curtis Leewall on the radio.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
I don't even know what is you mentioned is? I
have no idea. He's the Republican mayoral oh got it, nominee.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
And he was on AM radio that I listened to
with my Republican dad my whole fucking life.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
And I cannot believe that he's running for mayor of
New York.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
So the comptroller, who is Jewish, gets fucking knocked down
by ice, brought to his knees, carried out, who stood
up for him?

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Who stood up for him? Who did he endorse?

Speaker 2 (06:29):
You know, that's Jewish mayoral Canada endorse Mom Donnie and
listening to Hey Benson, why don't you talk to your friend?
Why don't you get your friends sorted?

Speaker 4 (06:39):
This is this is us telling you that we are
going to do those episodes, but we're not going to
have We're not going to have Debra Messing on the pod.
She's not going to be on it. Yeah, sorry, I
to raise my voice. I'm sorry, it's okay. I just
found out yesterday. I don't know if I told you this,
but like, I was on this committee at my daughter's
school last year. It's called a school site council. It's

(07:00):
how you decide where the Title I funds go in
your school. I attended meetings constantly about where we're going
to do with this money. I was the fucking secretary.
I had to take notes, type up my notes, submit
my note my minutes, have them approved, have them voted on,
make corrections. All of the money that we spent the
entire year working on allocating Trump is now holding It's

(07:21):
already been pre approved allocated to these schools. He's now
holding it. Six billion dollars in Department of Education money.
It's not going to go to my kid's school. It's
gonna go to ice. It's gonna go to ice. Sick
speaking of Trump. Uh oh, so I wake up today.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Sorry, we're in the time of shee and I apologize
if this is a disillusionment to you in our lives.
But it is July second, Okay, the timing is important. Yeah,
I'm supposed to fly to Australia July fifth.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
I wake up this morning.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
I have a little le s vie still to do
before we meet up, but I'm going to soul Cycle.
On my way to soul Cycle, get a call from
my manager the Australian government.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
The visa that I've submitted is not enough.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
I need to go to a local police precinct, give
my fingerprints and get a document. It's called like to
make sure I have a clean record, like to prove
I'm not a criminal. You give them your information and
they do a background check and they give you like
a non criminal letter of consent that you're not a
I don't know, I keep repeating, I don't know what
this bureaucracy bullshit is. I have to get this form.
I'm my way to soul Cycle. I'm like, well, we're

(08:23):
interviewing someone I don't know what this is. It's about
to be July fourth, Like what is going on? So
I still go to Soul Cycle. I walk to the precincts.
I had a great time in the local precincts, I'll
be honest. So I walk in.

Speaker 4 (08:36):
You know, we watch SPU word Yes to you, pot
You're like to the here to Detective Benson like yeah, acab.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
But there's something like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
I feel like I'm in busy town heading to the precincts.
So I'm in the precincts. Very helpful police officer. He goes, Okay,
give me a sec He goes, you actually have to
go to one PP Plaza. Here's the phone number. We
don't do it here after COVID, we don't do it.
I'm sorry, and I go, wait, should I go or call?
He goes, call, So I call. No one answers. It's

(09:05):
an automated message. But in the message it says, do
not come here without an appointment. You need an appointment.
Is there an appointment available?

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Of course not. The next available is July eighth.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
I always told July second that I need a visa,
that I need to do this thing. And I'm leaving
in three days. It's fucking holiday. The precinct it says,
do not come. So now I'm dealing with like immigration
lawyers and trying to have waivers in my former visa
because I've been to Australia a few times and I'm
trying to prove all this stuff to them. And basically

(09:37):
it is because of our current president and he's fucking
over Australians and making it harder to come here.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
So it's kind of just like a punishment. Oh no, yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
But I'm flying first to New Zealand, so I could
go and we'll figure it'll figure itself.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Out, I hope.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
But like, and then you can be able to call
your congress person's office. They I can help you get
like passports if you like you know how people will
be like, oh fuck, my passport's expiring in two days
and I'm leaving for a foreign country. You can like
call your congressperson's office and they can help you. But
I'm sure you're working out immigration, playing it out.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
But they did say if you know, if you have
a connection in New York City government or stay government.

Speaker 4 (10:18):
Oh my god, anybody anybody work in the Congressman's office.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
I hope you go be back.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Hopefully I'm home already and no one's looked through my
phone or taken my passport and cut it in half.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
And then the police officer said, shame on whoever waited
till the last minute. He goes, you'd tell them, shame
on them, And he goes, this is at least a
few weeks to make to do this, and the other
police officer goes, yeah, it's like the DMV. You can't
just go on in and get fit, you know, right.

Speaker 4 (10:48):
I just went to the DMV last week, five days ago, really,
and I was in and out in sixteen minutes because
I had an appointment.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
You can't just walk in there, nightmare.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
No, No, oh my god, I hope this gets figured out.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Oh that's so stressful. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
And I was fully sweaty and like wet from class
to just begging for them to say I'm not a criminal.
I would say mine is more selfish and self centered.
I think, holding six billion dollars from educating, but none
of this is. It's like it's like easy to be rage.
Not easy. I just how I feel. It's like I'm

(11:23):
in a rage. I'm so pish, but none of this
is surprising. I guess the race stuff for some reason
surprised me like nine to eleven, and now this it's like,
are we serious? What the fuck is going on? Yeah,
I'm sorry. Every single fucking attack on Jewish people in
this country has been a white supremacist, Like look, look

(11:45):
it up.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
I can't even believe it.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
I'll tell you a funny thing I'm mad about, Okay,
and it's a little vulnerable. I did order a pack
of twenty four water bottles off Amazon, so I like
having fucking cold waters in my fridge. Jesus Christ. Okay,
So the box has just been like in my living
room for a while, and then I use the box
cutter to open it and I cut a row of

(12:12):
water bottles fully.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Open, and.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
No, yeah, oh my god, that's sharp ass box cutter.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Damn. Yeah. Yeah, it's working. It's it's working.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
But it's also like I could tell it's like a
third party seller, Like I think it's like a family
that's trying to make extra money buy stuff and then
resells it on Amazon. It was like the jankiest weird
bo like it shouldn't be a box. Like usually when
you order a case of water just the case, just
a yeah, like for it to even be in a box,
I'm like, what janky apple like garage operation, operation app whatever?

(12:52):
You know. You got me so fucking riled up, and
now we're gonna watch crazy sview.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
But I did it. I did. It's mad. But I
also I am like I can't believe.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
I'm just like like living life like and that like
I'm going to a pool tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
It's just like weird. It's strange.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, it's strange because the worst things ever are happening.
And I believe in revolution. I should be a part
of a revolution, and here I am playing Tetris on
my laptop.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
I just I don't know, Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (13:22):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
I also feel a little bit like powerless and like what.

Speaker 4 (13:25):
Can we do because like we everyone's like call your
congress people. It's like our congress people are doing what
we want.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
The mid note, but they're doing the minimum. They're like
vote and then go threaten your Democratic friends that vote
the other way and help these Republicans past shit on
the cuss people get some plans going. Are there secret meetings?
Where's the coup? Where are where's the military? Where are
the better different meetings. Yeah, where are the secret meetings?

Speaker 1 (13:52):
I mean, I think that they.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Are going to be fucking the Democratic people the midterms.
We're not making it to midterms. If I've been right
about everything, you know, we're not making it some midterms.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
I don't know what to do. If we're not making
a year.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
We need to go to the kill bill guy and
learn how to, you know, use our hands to fight
out of a casket. I don't know, because that's the
scary thing. Like I heard, like in Turkey, it's the
suppressive government. But people, people are on the streets, you know,
like people are protesting and it's just it doesn't matter. Yeah,

(14:31):
and they're gonna keep arresting. They're gonna make it harder
and harder to protest. We're listen, my parents have lived
in Russia. I guess I could do it again. I
have it in my blood.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
You know.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
I could eat fucking pickled herring and buckwheat for the
rest of my life.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
I don't think that's happening. I do not think that's happening. No, No,
because I won't be able to make the buckwheat. I
don't think that there's going to be outlets for you
to get your frustrations out in Russia. I don't think
you're able to do stand up. I don't think you'll
be able to do soul. I don't think you'll be.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Able to No, I'm not going to Russia. I mean
America will be Russia. Yeah, and we're well have a career.
I thought you were like, we could get out of here,
we could leave, we.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Could go to Russia. We left on religious we of course,
I know, I know you're not going anywhere.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
I'm just saying I thought you were like making a
comment about how bad it is here that you would
go back.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
But yes, of course not. Of course you're not going anywhere.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
You're not going anywhere, and I don't think we're going
to become Russia. But I'm also upset. I'm also upset
about what's happening.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
It's it's fucked. I don't know what you do.

Speaker 4 (15:37):
So now you have to get basically today waivers and.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
You have to get this shit together. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Well, I found all my old paperwork and sent it
to my people and they made a waiver and like,
we'll see what happened.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
I'm so glad you have it all. That's great. Oh yeah, Yeah,
that's just searching through gmails, like I.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
Know, but I know people that go through and delete
gmails from like years ago.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
You know, I keep everything in Gmail, especially professionally. I mean. Okay, yeah,
the water, that's the funnest thing we have to say.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
Yeah, the funnest thing is Lisa slashed open a bunch
of water bottles.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Listen, but I've been squeezing them open into a cup,
like from the bottom.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
Like you're saving the water, You're saving the amusing the water.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
Yes, okay, thank god. All right, let's get started with
today's episode. It's wild. It's uh, you know, we here
we are. We're just doing another episode that they're trying
something new in this one.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
We've got.

Speaker 4 (16:34):
We've got a live show coming up in New York
City on August fourteenth, so come see us. It's at
the Bellhouse in Brooklyn. Go to That's Messed Up Live
dot com and you can get tickets to that. You
can also see Lisa's tour dates there as well. You
can see our merch. You can, I don't know, you
can do whatever the hell you want. We got a
lot of stuff up on that website. But let's start

(16:56):
today's episode.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Okay, we'll be doing betrayals. Climax I would put it.
We've been doing a lot of goofy ones. I would say,
not goofy. This is tragic and a crime is committed,
but a lot of far no. I don't even know
if it's far fudged.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
I'm using bad words. This is a wild episode. That's
what I'm gonna stick with. We have season fifteen. It's
episode thirteen. Hulusa's twelve Go fuck yourself. So we're in
a grand hall and you know, it's hands up time.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
There's an oath.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Benson's in her full outfit with the hat, and I
really hate seeing her in a cops hat. It like
takes away everything that I believe in her. But it's
a sergeant. So they're all wearing little white gloves like
they're about to drop some silver. We're on a table
and everyone's applauding eight congrats sergeants. It seems like way
too many sergeants. There's like hundreds of these little cops,
and so Rollin's fin and Tomorrow are viewing and they're

(17:50):
watching in support. Rollins is like gulping the shit out
of the silver Water bottle, all like, we've never seen
her like sip like this before. But then Finn goes, baby,
you're jumping around. That's a little too much caffeine. And
she goes sorry and has a little grin and it's cute.
She asks how DC was to tomorrow, you know with Maria,
He says, one day at a time, and you know

(18:12):
the drill. They're in a they're in a miserable marriage
and divorce. They've never found a moment of joy with
their relationship. But hey, Nick changes the subject quickly and goes, well,
where's Cassidy. I can't believe he's not here supporting his
girl's sergeant oath, but he's still undercover. And then Finn goes,
or that's his story. So they all don't trust him

(18:33):
or like him, and they don't want live dating him.
So then Tomorrow says, fuck, we have a call missing
teenaged girl, and Finn's like, fuck, couldn't the call have
happened like an hour ago? They do not want to
be at this thing, but you know, I saw a
thing about how building community is inconvenient, and we've gotten
too much about like boundaries, my own peace. I'm staying

(18:55):
home and it's like, no, if you want to build community,
you have to go do things. You have to go
show up for people, whether you like it or not.
And that's what friendship is. And they're gonna watch Benson
but no, honestly, yeah, they can't wait to leave. So
Nick Nick Go's parents got home, the place was ransacked,
and then Rollin's and Finn are like, well, take care
of it, you stay Nick, But as soon as they

(19:15):
get up to leave, Olivia is being called, Like it
was twenty seconds, like they could have clapped and seen
her take her certificate and then leave, but they leave
as they're calling her name.

Speaker 4 (19:26):
Really it's psychologic from the back clap and then go.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
But Nick is sitting there smiling, clapping and he's just
like so fucking hot, it's insane. So now you know
we're on the scene of the crime. Our detectives get
filled in by a uniformed cop. Avery Capshaw sixteen, her
parents went to a wedding, left her home alone. They
came back this morning, the place was trashed and robbed
and the girl is gone.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
They spoke to her last.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
Night at eight pm and the UNI CoP's like, yeah,
the parents think she's been taken, and Finn goes and
you and he's like, I don't know. This place smells
like weed and there's no forced entry, and the neighbors
said there was loud music till midnight. So the parents
are telling Finn and Rollins that their daughter would never
throw a party. That's not her vibe. They know something's wrong.

(20:11):
But you threw parties as a teen. Would your parents
also say y're someone that wouldn't throw a party.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
Probably yeah, they'd probably be like Caro would have like
three or four friends over. But like, the parties that
I threw in high school were wild, and I bet
they would never have any idea about how wild they were.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
No, that's the thing parents, It's like, didn't you lie
to your parents? I don't understand why parents are so delulu.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
That's the thing.

Speaker 4 (20:33):
My friend Valentine and I talk about this all the time,
like we're the first person to be like, no, it's
probably our kid, like these are. There's so many precious
parents that are just like, could never. My kid could never.
There's just absolutely no way. It's like, never say fucking never,
your kid could do anything, you know, Yeah, yeah, the.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Brant are not formed, so whatever. But they just know
something is wrong, but there's been no ransom call. But
all the jewelry is gone, all the cash is gone,
and they're just like, Avery's never been in trouble, she's
not that wild, like please, and there's blood in our
main bedroom, so the mom thinks she was assaulted. They
ask if you know she has a boyfriend. They go

(21:09):
not anymore and his name is Manny Montero and they're
both in the tenth grade and they go to the
Hamilton Gifted and Talented School.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
They broke up two months.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Ago because her grades were slipping, and so Finn's like, so,
you know, were they out last night? Like what's going on?
They're like no, he's a nice boy. And the dad
is like, listen, I don't want to sound wrong, but
he's poor.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
He lives house for some avenue projects and we don't
like it. And they called the school and he didn't
go to school that day either, so they both didn't
make it to school. The wife leaves to go get
Manny's contact information off of Avery's computer, and during this moment,
the dad levels with the detectives, goes, listen, my wife's
more trusting this Latino boy.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Is no good. I've always had a bad feeling about
this boy.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
The dad walks out, and Finn and Rollins are like, okay,
Romeo and Juliet, and we know how well that turned out.
And then they zoom in on the bit of blood
on the bed and it is like the tiniest little
bit of blood.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
It's really usually they try to gross us with the.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Stuff, but it's really like a half period stain.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Honestly, It's it's like nothing. It's really nothing. It's just
a weird choice for them.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
I'm not saying like, obviously, if there's blood on a
bed and your daughters missing, that's like a big deal.
But it's like what happened to the props department that day? Yeah,
so a little splattering, a little more something. Yeah, it
just was really tiny. But we go into the credits
and now we're back in the office and Olivia's still
in her cop top but the hat is off, thank

(22:39):
god cop top.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Sorry, I don't know why the way you said that
made me laugh. Merch okay, No, we can't have anything,
say cop Okay.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
So they're debating like is it a bad teen fun
time or a crime?

Speaker 1 (22:56):
So what do they need to do.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
They're gonna check all the pawn shops to out for
the jewelry. And then Danny Pino is here to take
over for Maloney and like knowing about schools, and he's
like poor or rich. This is a top like the
top public school in the city. You both have to
be genius as fuck to go there, Like no money
can buy you, Like you have to be smart. And
Manny doesn't even have a record. But his brother was

(23:19):
murdered two years ago by b X nine and that's
a gang and it was a drive by and no
one was ever charged for the crime. Manny's parents haven't
called him missing those so Finn jumps in that he
lives with his grandmother and she sure as hell is
not calling the cops, And Benson spins Tomorrow and says,
you're still good with the Abualitas. Go to the grandma,

(23:42):
Finn and Rollins and they have like I swear, they're
like I fucking in that moment, Like Benson and to
Morrow have kind of a sexiest look at each other
in this second, and it's like, I'm telling.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
You, I used to think that was gonna happen. I
was like an idiot.

Speaker 4 (23:54):
I was like like, well, if it's not, it's not
Maloney anymore, I guess it's this new guy.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
Like I just didn't even then.

Speaker 4 (23:59):
I think I was shocked when there's like that one
episode where he comes out of the shower at Rollins
and I was like, he's.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Supposed to be hooking up with Benson, Like I don't
know why.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
I was like so, well, because of a moment's like this, yeah,
it was like sexual so whatever.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Amara was going to the grandma's.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Finn and Rollins go through avery social media and they're
gonna check out her friends at school. So then they
all kind of make fun of her and they salute
her and they're like, okay, we're on it, boss, and
she's annoyed, but yeah, she has a sense of humor.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
So they're at the school talking to her friends.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
They're talking to a dork with glasses in the library
and she's spilling the bee and she's like, yeah, her
parents made them break up, but they were in love.
They couldn't be a part, so she did have to
lie to them. But she also liked the sneaking around.
It was like hot for her. And then they ask
where does she sneak off to and so then then
we cut to Rollins and she's talking to a boy
and it's you know, he's an artsy boy. There's a

(24:49):
denim jacket and the easels funky art. This is an
art moment and they love art. There's an art competition
in two days, so she has to come back. She
would never miss the art competition, and Rollins is like
looking at the art and it's two people holding hands
and she goes, wow, Avery is so talented, and her
friend goes, yeah, she would never miss this competition, and

(25:11):
Rollins asked if she cuts class, and it cuts back
to Finn and the Nerd and she goes, no, cutting
class is more Manny's thing because he has to take
care of his grandmother and they're poor. And so now
we're at this poor person apartment and it's Rosa Mon's Harrow,
the grandma, and she's like, Manny is a good boy.
And then when the topic of the girlfriend comes up,
the grandma and Spanish says like, oh, that girl thinks

(25:33):
she's too good for my son. He was a heartbroken
that she broke up with him. And Nick walks into
Manny's room and the grandma says, damn, you know like
he works so hard.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
He has a job before school.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
And he's going to save up enough money to pay
for a gravestone for his brother. So this is like sad,
Like a teen has to work a job before school
so his brother can like have a fucking gravestone. Devastating,
but yeah, things are off. She didn't see him last
night or this morning. And the backpacks in his room,
so this isn't good. And in the backpack he finds

(26:08):
some gang items. There's like a hat and beads in
the colors of the gang. And the grandma's crying and saying, no, no, no,
what happened after what happened to his brother? He would
never fuck with guns and gangs, and she's crying. Life
is so sad. So she's begging Nick and crying. We
cut tomorrow and Finn and a car driving and they're like,
that's like a wild double life, you know, to be
like this gifted smart boy dating a rich girl and

(26:29):
then being in this gang, Like that's a lot to handle.
And they're cruising and they see a dude with the
same hat, so like a gang hat, and they pull
over and you know, Nick knows the kid. Nick knows
this it's probably a common rat guy, you know, and
under you see, I do love when there's like a
little rat guy that they all know. I kind of

(26:49):
like that character. And it's always like, then why are
you helping? You seem so anxious about this. He throws
him against the fence and says, I'm not true it anymore.
I dropped out of school, and he giggles, and Tomorrow goes, okay, cool,
like this isn't about school, and Finn goes, stop wasting
her time, like, if you don't fucking tell us what

(27:11):
we want, we're gonna bother you all day and we're
gonna deter customers. Tell us what you know about Manny Montero.
He denies knowing anything. He's like, I'm not a fucking rat,
And then Finn starts taking photos of him and Tomorrow
smiling together, and they're like, we're gonna show everyone this
photo that your friends with a cop. We're just gonna
like put it on the NYPD instagram. So he doesn't

(27:34):
want this pic to circulate. This is so goofy, like
when he'd be like, yeah, the cops made me do it,
like whatever. So we we assume we got info because
Manny is now in cement room bars. He's denying knowing
where she is or even seeing her. He's like, we
broke up, and Tomorrow's like, you're a fucking dumb bitch.
We have forensics and we're gonna know you that you
were there. And he's like, well fine, yeah, she invited

(27:57):
me over to study, and Finn screams in her parents
bed and he says I didn't do anything. He says
I couldn't and they're like couldn't. What what? And they're
trying to get something out of Manny and it's you know,
it's tough, and so Finn's somars being good cop and
then Finn's trying to be bad cop and goes, I mean,
we have enough weed to hold you, so I don't know.

(28:17):
If you don't want to talk, you don't have to talk.
But we're gonna tell your grandma. And he's like, don't
tell my grandma. So he goes, she has a bad heart.
So Nick goes, yeah, no, I know, you seem like
a good kid, like you like your grandma, like help
yourself out, do what's right, and Manny goes, just book me.
Benson is spying as Amanda rush is in because ESU

(28:38):
found dun Dundune. They found Avery. Avery's on a roof,
so she's ready to jump. She has bruises on her face,
she's in distress, she's in a coat. There's snow on
the ledge, which means it might be slippery. It's cold,
it's scary. The wind is blowing her fur lined hood
like it is it's a windy day, and Rollins keeps
inching closer and closer to her, and she says, leave

(28:59):
me alone, go away, and Rollin's is like, well, clearly
I can't, like I am a policer, and just like
walk away as you're on this roof. We care about you.
We've been looking for you all day. So the boy
detectives are on the ground with her parents and they
let them know that she was not with Manny. She
was wandering the city alone all day. And the parents
are like what this is crazy, Like something awful must

(29:22):
have happened to her for this to be the result.
And so now some helmet wearing motherfucker, full bulletproof vest
guy is trying to take charge, not being patient, like
telling Benson like she has five minutes or we're doing
our guys in our way and blah blah blah, and
it's like, Okay, you're so annoying. There's a scared girl
on a ledge, like I doubt she wants your fucking
helmet ass up there. She'd rather be talking to a cute,

(29:45):
fun blonde girl, but she's panting up there. Rollins is
trying to get her help. She says, don't you get it?
He's dead, and Rollins asks who, and she goes, Manny,
they killed him.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Rolin's going no, no, no, he's alive.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
And she doesn't believe Rollin's and and it's like, no, no, no,
we have him in custody. We can call him, you
can talk to him. He's alive. She does not believe Rollins,
and she keeps accusing her of lying, and then she jumps.
But she must have seen the blow up thing beneath
her right like did she just want a fun ride?

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, that's what I was wondering too.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
I was like, like, it's you're not going to end
your life, and so were you like this could be fun?

Speaker 1 (30:23):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
I don't get it, cause yeah, so you guys are
just like a giant Discovery Zone blow up savor thing
at the bottom.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
She was going dzy at Discoveries.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
And she just jumped and it was like it was
cool like that you would pay money at an amusement.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Port to do.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, I would love to do that because if you
jump to your death, I get it. But what are
you're jumping?

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Just?

Speaker 2 (30:46):
I mean I would do I would want the thrill.
I would want a thrill to know I was safe.
But she jumps, but a thing catches her and it's
big and bouncy. So and she's in baby blue sweatpants.
And if you see a rich girl in baby blue sweatpants,
you know she's having a tough day, like she's going
through the dark side. She yeah, it's not it's not

(31:06):
a good sign. It's not a you're not wearing baby
blue if things are going good. So now we're in
the hospital. Rollin's and Benson come to see Avery in
her room. They go, why did you think Manny was dead?
And it's because she called his cell phone that morning.
But they said I'll never see him again. And they
go who is they? And they ask if it's the
gang or any info, like they want to understand what

(31:29):
led her to the roof, what happened last night. She
says it wasn't Manny's fault. She asked them to come over.
They ordered pizza and studied. Benson said, I also like
that good kids can only study, like could it be
monopoly or a game or a movie.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
It's always like we were just studying.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah, it needs to be an in between from like
gang activity and studying.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
I don't understand one is studying.

Speaker 4 (31:51):
We were drinking vodka and fucking, or we were studying,
and there's nothing in between.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
I was friends with this little girl when I was
a kid, and her mom was very, very strict, and
it was a very studious family, but I was We
were always desperate to hang out. So sometimes I would
go to her house and we would both have to
read silently from our own books. But I would just
come over to read together for a half hour.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
And then leave.

Speaker 4 (32:14):
I mean, my best friend and I used to watch
TV on the phone together, just like watching TV and
like barely talking because I would get in trouble if
I got busted watching TV.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Oh yeah, the weekday, the weekday clank.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yes. Yeah, So Benson.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Says, well, the apartment looked like there was a party
in sex and she's like, wow, we've had sex before,
please don't tell my parents, but not last night. They
were like, did Manny invite people over? She says no.
The doorbell rang. I went to answer it, and three
guys pushed in and yelled at Manny in Spanish. They're like, well,
what do they want and she says money. I guess
They went to the liquor cabinet and then they tore

(32:48):
the house apart, and she screamed, but they grabbed her
and she doesn't want to talk about anything else because
they said they would kill Manny if she talked. They
decide to bully the suicidal girl and tell her, well,
the only person we know that was in the apartment
was Manny, so unless you talk, we're pinning it all
on him and we're taking it all the way. And
she swears it wasn't him, and Benson goes, well, he's

(33:09):
just gonna stay in jail till you tell us the truth.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
So she starts crying. Then they had a gun.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
They dragged her into her parents' bedroom and they raped her,
all three of them, and they were laughing and shouting
rock amos, which I guess is we rock and Benson
translated that. Benson translates it to rollins, so she goes,
that means we rock. And then they held a gun
on Manny during the attack and made him watch, and
they told him that he had to go next, but

(33:36):
he couldn't do it. And so then it went all
night until the like till it was light out, and
then she said, you know, my parents are going to
be back soon, and so they left. They took Manny
with them, and then she says, once I called and
realized that he was dead, she walked out of the house,
wandered around the city and got to his neighborhood. So

(33:57):
Benson says, okay, we're gonna do a rape kit. We're
gonna look at some photos, and we're going to try
to make some IDs. She repeats that Manny had nothing
to do with it, that he really loves her, and
the whole time that she was falling into like this
pillow cloud, that she was thinking about him, and Manny
is asking to see avery but tomorrow and Finn are like, no, no, no, no,

(34:18):
you need to tell us who did this or you're
going down as an accessory. And it's like, Manny, this
is when you ask for a fucking lawyer. But they
lie to him, and they say that the gang won't
know it came from him, and he goes, well, now
who's lying and he is crying and they and he says, like,
they put a gun on me, and they keep bullying him,
and he asked, do you think I wanted this? And

(34:38):
they go no, but they raped your girl and you
and made you watch, and you're not man enough to
tell us who they are. So Benson walks in and
then Manny goes, well, they said if I talk, they're
going to kill me and Avery, and Benson stares him
down and says, well, I guess Avery's tougher than you
because she is looking at mugshots of your friends. He says,
they're not my friends, and so now are at clear

(35:00):
board time. Finn is breaking down that the Prince match
a dude named Carlos Hernandez and he is the head
of the gang. And then Avery did pick him out,
and Amaro explains the next guy. It's a real musical
chairs moment. They each get a guy to bring up.
So Amro says, Miguel Castilla, aka the Sandman, he was
caught pawning the mom's jewels, and then Avery I d'd

(35:21):
him as well, and then Rollins comes on with the
third guy, Info, and that's Rego Harrie Ado, and so
they're bragging online about and this idiot, this Rego guy,
is bragging online about his crime. He's truly doing live
stories of like we fucking did it girl Upstown, you know,
upstate uptown, one of the Upper West whatever. They're like
bragging about being on the Upper West Side and so

(35:45):
full incrimination. So they go to They're gonna go hang
out with the gang unit, who probably tracks their routine,
and they're gonna start arresting these motherfuckers because if they're
bragging online about the crime, they're not laying low. So
Finn and Rollins are in a car spying and they
get they find Miguel and they arrest him. Tomorrow goes
to pick up Rego and then it's a full crew

(36:05):
to pick up Carlos, who's in charge, full protection gear cops.
Finn and Rollins are there and then Finn like walks
into the door, grabs this dude by the neck and
throws him on the couch. Yeah, and this is when
I'm like, of course people want to fuck Finn.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
I mean the way he grabbed this man's neck. I
loved it.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
So there's a kid in this house with his girlfriend
and Finn was like, wait, I know you, Marisol, and
she goes, so what and he's like, I thought you
were done with that gang shit and like you stayed
with your baby daddy. And she goes, he was a
rat and rolls on everyone and the gang and they're like, well, no,
he left you out of it.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
He just rolled on the gang. She goes, the gang
is my family and that's that, okay.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
So the guys in cement room bars are saying that
Manny is the one that invited them to come through.
They're saying that she was into it and that she
was coming like a freight train the whole time. And
the main guy is hot and his smile is evil,
and they're saying she wanted a trip, okay. And then
they're these guys are saying that she wanted a trip

(37:08):
to the boneyard. They're calling her a rich bitch. And
so now we go visit her and she's in shock.
She goes, hold up. They're saying that Manny told them
I wanted it. She says, nobody would want that, but
they're like, how did they know that your parents were
going to be away? You know, how they know that
you were going to be home alone? And she says,

(37:28):
I don't know. Maybe they followed Manny and she says,
what did Manny say? And they're like, Manny is not
cooperating and she's like, oh my god, he's mad at me.
And they ask why in the world would he be
mad at you, and she goes, well, they made him
watch all night and he saw and she's having a
hard time saying it, but basically they hurt her so bad,

(37:49):
but she did. She was coming and she couldn't stop,
and so each time it happened, they would high five
each other and it was this weird game. But she
didn't want to and she's like, I was scared to death.
My body, you know, kept having orgasms and she's like,
I hate myself. I'm so disgusting, and they, you know,
the classic go like, this is a physiological normal response.
It's a reflex. It doesn't mean that you wanted it

(38:11):
or enjoyed it. And she just like thinks that something
is wrong with her and she's they're like, nothing is
wrong with you, and she goes, well, then, why has
that never happened with Manny and now she's full crying.
She says, I love him, and she's so confused and
she's chewing on her like thumb like thumbnails like she's
really ripping her nails apart. So now it's Barbara time,

(38:34):
and he's like, what's the problem. We have physical evidence,
we have social media evidence, we have priors IDs by
the victim like DNA Prince like, let's take this to court.
And they're like, well, you know, she's experienced in voluntary
orgasms during the rape and she doesn't want to testify,
and Barbara goes, no, worries, I'll get a bunch of experts.
They'll explain how that's not consent, like she needs to

(38:54):
take the stand. And Barbara says, you need to change
her mind or get the boyfriend to talk. But we
need someone on the fucking stand. And he's acting like
that's an easy thing to do. If it was, they
would have already gotten them both to testify. So now
also this is a gang and we figure out that
the grandma was actually mugged by b X nine three
times last year.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
They're terrible.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
We're like watching this grandma being beat in this elevator
it's like I don't understand.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
I know, and the and Manny's grandma is from many
SVU episodes, right, isn't she the woman that works at
the beef in the factory in beef Oh my god, yes,
when uh Marishka is like many kugarachas Like yeah, holy.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Shit, yeah she is.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
And I just don't like her being mugged, but whatever,
so I know, so he probably joined the gang to
protect her. So it's like Manny wanted to live a
different life. So and then they start harassing his grandma
to force him to join a gang that, like his
brother died protected like fuck you, so they saw so.
And then they're like the detectives are discussing like of

(40:02):
course the gang wants a smart boy around, and Finn
adds or a cream puff to take a hit for
all of this, and then it's like, but why rape
the girlfriend? Is this like a loyalty test? Like why
fucking do this? And then it clicks. The grandma mentioned
how he was about to have enough money to get
a gravestone for his brother and maybe this robbery is

(40:22):
the big payday, like did he set this up for
the money in cash? Like this is terrible so they
go to harass the grandma, and you know, she hasn't
been through enough. So then the grandma thinks like that
he that he's a delivery boy for a pharmacy, but
a gravestone is two grands, so they're like, it's not
adding up, like no one does deliveries for pharmacies, and

(40:43):
then makes thousands of dollars. So then they guilt her
into talking because they're like, well, he joined the gang
for your safety, and Finn and Tomorrow are onto something maybe,
and so they're doing walking and talking. They're thinking, they're
figuring it all out. And I didn't know. I love
the watching Nick button his coat.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Hot. Okay, so we're talking to SVDU Royalty.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Here it's the earwax man from the episode with the
Big the companies to remember this episode. Wait, the earwax
It's ridiculous, man, it's ridiculous, cureless, ridiculous.

Speaker 4 (41:15):
Yeah, and he's also driving the beer truck at the
super Bowl episode.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Yes, yeah, he's like in five episodes, he's amazing. So
now he's here as well, and this time, you work,
we got to get him on the show. I wonder
if we've done all his episodes. So I feel like
we talk about ridiculous, like all the goddamn sun, it's ridiculous.
So he's like, I just drive the trucks and Rollins goes, okay,
but you probably just also tell the gangs when the ox.
He's coming in and out, and he denies it, denies it,

(41:42):
and they're like, well, we're going to go through all
your financials and if we see you that you're spending
double then what you're making and delivering, then we're going
to have an issue on our hands. And then they're like,
we're not even after you. We truly don't give a shit.
We need to know what happened, Like can you can
you fill us in? He goes, okay, Okay, okay, he goes,
I called in to be nine that like we got
the oxy, but they sent some skinny kid to point

(42:05):
the gun. But the kid is being shy, he's not
saying anything, and they show a photo of Manny goes, yeah,
that's him. He froze, and so I had to tell him,
like shoot the wall. You need to make it look real,
like you can't just stand there. It's my job, but
like they have to make it look like a real
fucking robbery and this guy just hasn't had the normal
acting classes that most criminals have yet haha. And so

(42:27):
you know, the owner though heard the shot came running.
So basically when the owner comes out, the ridiculous dude
is like, this kid wants oxy. This kid walks wants oxy.
So what did the owner do? We cut to Rikers
and uh oh, they find out that the pharmacists let
him go with a bunch of aspirin instead of oxy.
And so then Finn and Tomorrow are like, okay, well

(42:49):
now we know everything. The gang is getting back at
you for fucking up their drug deal. You know, aspirin
doesn't have that big of a as big of a
payday as oxy.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Okay, so they're doing everything.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
They get him to talk, and then they bring up
his brother and he goes, you think you're going to
bring up my brother and that's going to make me talk,
And Finn's like, damn, so you don't care about anybody.
You're not gonna help Avery at all. He says, she
can take care of herself. I saw that she doesn't
need me, and Tomorrow's like, you're a fucking idiot. And
so now they're in woodroom blinds with Avery, and Avery
is so confused. She's like, wait, what do you mean

(43:23):
he's not testifying, and Benson explains that he is too
scared and of the game, that he's too scared of
the gang, and she goes, no, I know it's me.
I broke his heart and Benson's like, you need to stop.
It's like, you know, and then they bring up like
tickling and then like crying with cutting onions and just
like they're really explaining everything to her, and she.

Speaker 4 (43:45):
Goes, remind me of like when they talk to male
victims and the male victims are like, how could I
have gotten an erection if I was being attacked? And
it's like it's a bodily response, you.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Know, yeah, And so then she's like, I need to
talk to him, so they let her visit wrikers.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
She sits down across from him and they have a
how are you off?

Speaker 2 (44:04):
And she says sorry, and she says sorry to him,
which is crazy. This makes me as mad as the
Barbie movie, Like why is she apologizing? Why does she
have to apologize him? She was like brutally raped and
she just keeps worrying about him, like this.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Is so fun.

Speaker 4 (44:20):
I'm sorry, like you got cooked so bad when I
got raped, Like it's so bonkers. But she's a teen.
And then it's like, you know, she's a teen. And
she's explaining she's about to jump off a roof. She's
also going through a lot. Yeah, she's explaining how it was.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
She wasn't into it, she didn't feel anything that she
was fully disassociated, like not in her body at all.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
She couldn't stop it, and Amaro pipes in.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
She's telling the truth, and she says, all I was
worried about was you. You have to believe me. She's
begging him. I she's begging him. He says, you're worried
about me? Then walk away. Tell them nothing happened to you.
She says, but you know that's not true. You have
to tell the jury how they busted in. They held
me down and forced me. I didn't want any of it. Please,

(45:06):
And he just says I'm sorry and looks off and
he is not going to help her. Rollin's and Tomorrow
roll their eyes at each other. They are fucking pissed.
And now we're like at the family vehicle. The dad
is packing up the car. He's bitching like he's like,
I no wonder he won't testify. He's as guilty as
the rest of them. And the mom goes, listen, I

(45:26):
want him charged. They all suck. We want them all charged.
And the daughter is like, what the fuck you, guys,
I told you we had a gun to his head,
and the dad says, I wish they shot him. That boy,
set you up. And Benson and Rollins try to talk
to the dad and the dad's like, fuck all of you.
I want them all in prison for life.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Fuck you.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
And they start talking about testifying, and the mom goes,
we're going upstate.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
We're going to our house for a few days.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
We're getting the fuck out of here, and Benson and
Rollins share a look of like, damn, our lives are
hard as the family drive off. So, okay, room room.
The gang's all here. So the gang starts attacking them
in this wild motorcycle chase. So there's like got six
motorcycles circling the car. The dad's not and then they
like get in front of the vehicle and stop, and

(46:14):
so the dad steps on the brakes.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
This is like a very fast and furious like action
sequence for us, for you, and.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
You know, I would never judge anyone's behavior, but I
would run over everyone in the motorcycle. Yeah, there's enough
footage in New York City.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
It would be all caught, Like, yeah, I would.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Because then what happens is they break the car with
baseball bats. They beat the family to shit like they're
breaking the car. They all get off their motorcycles and
just like fully attack and yeah, bummer, And this is
on the news, this crime because this is very salacious
and gang violence and you know people like that, and
so cut some ruises, broken ribs, wrists, Avery needs stitches

(46:54):
in her scalp. Oh god Rollins is on the scene
and Barbara are at the squad and Benson gets the
update that they are not allowing her to testify.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
The parents are over it. They are done.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
No one's talking, but Barbara just keeps talking about how
hard it's going to be in court.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
But I'm like, there's so much evidence.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
You're saying there's fingerprints or this or that there's DNA,
Like what is the confusion?

Speaker 1 (47:16):
They also just beat this family with the bats.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
They're like discussing this, but basically, if there's not a witness,
then the gang members can kind of like spin anything
they could be like, we were invited, we were this,
we were that, and beyond a reasonable doubt, you can't
really prove it without these other witnesses.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
I don't know. I don't buy. I don't get this.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
They need to make it easier to like bring people
to justice without having to re traumatize people. I don't
like it, Yeah, but it is what it is. So
Amorrow wait over and he has an idea. He's like,
let me chat with Manny again. I've been looking at
his brother's murder and I have some ideas. So basically,
witnesses said that he was shot by Del Toro Gang,

(47:57):
this other gang, but that gun was never and recovered.
But also all the witnesses that said it was Del
Toro Gang were all b x nine.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
And guess what.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Six months later, the gun was used as at a
bodega and the bullet was stuck in the wall, and
it was the same gun used for the brother's murder.
But that robbery and the bodega was b X nine.
So this is a community gun. This might be an
inside job, and this is a Morrow's theory. So Benson says,
go work on it, because you know, without avery, without Manny.

(48:30):
These guys fucking walk like, we need to figure this out.
So the guy they bullied, like the rat with the
photos and stuff, like just the guy on the street,
is now in a Morrow's passenger seat trying to hide
like yeah and getting low.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
It's really theatrical. This guy's really funny.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
He gives me like a Templeton the rat vibe, you
know from Charlotte's.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
Baby, Like he's just kind of like he's silly.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
I'm like really into this guy, and I hope he
gets out of the gang life.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
But he has a sense of humor around him, so we.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Get what we get from the the like the guy
also doesn't agree say anything out loud. It's all in
the eyes, like, it's a lot of eye acting. But
we get that this is an inside job and it's
so fucked up. And also, the same gun that Manny
used in the pharmacy stick up was the same gun
that killed his brother.

Speaker 4 (49:20):
They gave him his own brother's murder weapon as a
community gun to do this aspirin stick up.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Jesus.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
So now we're at the cemetery and Amaro and Finn
brought Manny from Rikers to you don't know, run around
the block. At the cemetery, Manny says, he's not talking,
and they're walking and talking and they're like, the gang
tried to kill your girlfriend and her family. Then they
give him the information about his brother, and he will
not believe him, and they're like, well, did they ever

(49:48):
get revenge on your brother's death. Manny knows the answer,
but instead screams like stop, and then says loyal and Spanish.
Nick says there's a difference between loyalty and blind loyalty.
And then they go to his brother's gravesite and there's
no gravestone, just like a small little wooden cross and
a ribbon, and so Nick takes out the bullet that

(50:09):
killed his brother, and then the second bullet is the
same gun, and that's the gang community gun, and here's
the third bullet from your pharmacy thing. So basically, yeah,
this is sad. And then Manny still refuses it. He's like, no,
I believe O G wouldn't do that. O G wouldn't
do that. And then they also like raped avery on
top of all of this, like what the fu And

(50:31):
they just keep trying to convince him, and he says,
I can't because then she will know that I'm guilty.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
I knew the dad was right.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Damn Og called me that night and said they were
coming over to party. He knew what that meant, but
he didn't want to know. And he could have called
the cops. He could have gotten Avery out of there,
but he froze, like they could have gone anywhere else.
They could have gone to a movie, Like they didn't
have to be in that fucking house, right, he didn't
have to go over there like it is.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
This is terrible.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
I can't believe he did this and then make it
her feel bad after her rape while she's crying over
his fucking ass.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
What she well, he set this up.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
I know.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
It's so awful.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
He's like, once Avery finds out, she'll hate me for
the rest of her life.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Go fuck yourself.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Nick says, you didn't protect her then, but maybe you
can protect her now. So now he's sitting with Barbara,
and they promise they're gonna, you know, keep it confidential.
Manny knows that's not possible, but they promised round the
clock protection, so they turn the camera on.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
He talks right into the camera.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Avery, The worst thing you can do with these guys
is show weakness, and they knew how much I loved you.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
That's why this happened.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
What he should have done is shoot up every pharmacy
in town to spare you even a second of pain.
So now we cut to Avery watching the tape. Rollins
feels bad. Avery's really sad. He continues, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Avery.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
She says, I knew he would do the right thing,
and she wants to thank him. But first Rollins goes, well,
let me fill you in on the rest of the
tape and the testimony and his role in all of this,
and she's like, well, he had a gun to his head,
and Rollin's goes, yeah, but he knew the gang was
coming over. He knew, and he didn't tell me, which
is a normal response for Avery to have. And this

(52:14):
is like fucking arm breaking, and Rollin says, I'm so sorry.
And then Avery goes, I thought he loved me. Oh
my god. While they were on top of me, all
I could think about was him and how hard it
was for him to watch. And Rollin says, he did
not want you to get hurt. I'm sure of it,
and she says, no, you don't get to defend him.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
And I'm with Avery here.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Yeah, Finn interrupts and asks for Amanda. Yeah, Amanda's always
going to defend Amana, so totally up her ally. So
when Amanda like steps out, they get a call from
Rikers Manny was found dead hanging in his cell about
an hour ago, and his tongue was cut out. But
also like duh, but also wasn't he supposed to be
in protective custody? So then Barbara's on the same page

(52:56):
I was, and saying what I said, which is like, wait,
isn't he protect of custody? And Finn goes, well, you know,
guards say, shit happens, and the grandma is inconsolable obviously
like her God, and I wonder, I butt the gang's
going to start harassing her again too, and now and
now nobody is going to talk now that the tongue
is cut out, so like anyone that would have ever

(53:17):
helped is like done. So so they're like, well, can
we use the tape confession? And Barbara goes, you know
the rules the defense gets to cross examine a witness,
so no, that's not possible. The only way the tape
goes in is if they can prove that they killed him.
To prevent him from testifying. But nobody's going to turn
on him now, nobody is safe, and Finn is like, well,

(53:37):
maybe we can get him to turn on himself. So
they go to Marisol's house, the girlfriend of the OG,
and they're going to try to harass her, and she's
telling Rollin's like I'm not I don't have anything to
fucking say to you, and Finn goes, okay, well og
is going down for rape and she says no, that
girl wanted it and she needs to be taught that
like a lesson about what b X nine is all about.

(54:00):
And it's like, what is it about? Like, god, yeah,
life is so hard. So they're basically playing some mind
games with her. Well, I was just talking to my
friend who's been sober for a long time. But she
was like a bad team and went to rehab, and like,
for some reason, this week we were talking about her
rehab life and she goes, I was the only person
in my like rehab for troubled teens that could read.
She goes like, no one could read, no one was

(54:21):
ever taught like read to, Like no one's parents ever
visited like she goes, that's when it hit me. That
I had to get my life together because at least
my parents loved me, because she said, no one else.
She's like, they don't even they can't even fathom a
different life because no one, like they can't even see
outside of their thing and they can't even fucking read,
and so you know, like, but yeah, this girl like

(54:43):
likes her life with Og, Like what the fuck? Okay,
So they're basically playing mind games with her, and they're
getting her to call Og and trap him, you know
what I mean. So they go listen, we have his testimony,
and she goes, I'm loyal, that's my man, and they go, yeah, okay,
we just thought you should know. We have testimony and
we're gonna put him away, and we got like Manny

(55:04):
helped and rat it. So they leave her and she
calls him immediately. The plan worked. So now we're in
prison and OG's with his lawyer and Barbara and Benson
are there, and the lawyer is like, well, everyone is dead.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
So he gets off and Benson goes, no, no, no, no, no, no,
a brutal gang rape. He's not going anywhere.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
But he denies that it's a rape at all, and
the lawyer says you both know that there's no case
that video is out, and Barba's like, well, actually in
the case of forfeiture for wrongdoing, and so then Ogi
gets nervous and he's like, what the fuck is he
talking about? And the lawyer explains, he's claiming that you
had many killed to prevent him from testifying, and if

(55:46):
he can prove that, which he can't, then Manny's taped
slander would be allowed.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
So that's like their big plan.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
If they can prove that he was killed to stop
him from testifying, then the tape gets to be used
in trial. And then Ben's and goes, except we can
prove that, and she leans in your girlfriend, Marisol, she
made a call to you this morning. Huh. He goes, yeah,
I had to calm her down, and Barbara goes, oh, no,
you talked a little bit more than that. Prison phone

(56:15):
calls aren't confidential, babe. It was her flipping out and
you hear, and so they play the tape. They play
the phone call and it's her flipping out, like being like,
oh my god. They got Manny to testify. Manny, but
Manny turned like, what's going to happen? Are you going
to be in jail and you hear o g say, Oh,
don't worry, I'm not doing any time. And she says,
the cops told me Manny is testifying. He says, they're lying.

(56:38):
My Verdugos took care of it. He's not talking to anybody,
especially without a tongue. So then his lawyer goes, I'm
going to need some time with my client and we'll
take up pok. He goes, we'll take a plea and
Barbara goes, oh, I'd rather go to the jury. You know,
I'd rather do that unless he's willing to testify against
his fellow gang members, and that's the only way he

(57:01):
can get a deal. And he calmly says, you think
you won this, it's cool. I'll do my bid. Prison's
right for new recruits anyways, and they're loyal to the core,
and Benson says, like Manny was. He says, no, he
was never one of us. And in fact, I'm safer
in here than you are out there, Sergeant Benson, And
she says, oh, you want to threaten me, And then

(57:22):
this is like, this is not aged, but she goes,
I got the biggest gang in the city. You think
your guys are loyal, go ahead test the NYPD. Hye daarhiea.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
I crinched.

Speaker 4 (57:35):
I was like, live, no, come on, you guys are special.
Don't don't talk about being a gang. Don't talk about
being a gang, because you guys already have.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
A bad well you are the lie, the blue fin lie.
Like you guys are this like this is so fucked
like I want Benson to be safe, but god so
but she's right, okay, So Barba says that's a direct threat,
like let's get you protection. Of course, Live goes, I'm
not living like that. I don't want anything and whatever.

(58:04):
So now we cut to some aggressive painting. I've never seen
a canvas be you know, such hard lines and it's
avery painting.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
You know, our artsy girl.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
I don't think she made the art fair though, But
Rollin's is like, damn girl, your paintings are a little different.
And she goes, yeah, I don't know that girl anymore.
And it's like truly just a paint on the like
a heart on the canvas. But okay, so Rollin says
she'll come back, and she goes, he knew, manny knew
talking to the DA was a death sentence and Rollin

(58:36):
says he couldn't let those men free. He couldn't live
with that, and she says, oh, so you really did
love me. I'll never have that again, and Rollin goes, girl,
you're young, like you're gonna have to baby, don't worry,
and she says, have you ever been with someone that
was willing to die to protect you? He died thinking
I didn't love him anymore. I should have told him
while I still had the chance, still thinking about him,

(58:58):
like I don't, I don't get it.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
She looks down and then keeps painting very aggressively, and
then piano notes start playing and play into the end
entire Dick Wolf Baby, and that's our.

Speaker 4 (59:12):
Dick Wolf Baby. Oh my gosh. Okay, yeah, this episode is.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
So I mean, I.

Speaker 4 (59:19):
Don't know, I hate I really kind of hate all
the gang ones because it does just feel like they
have such control over people and everyone's like making And
this is the kid who was like smart enough to
get into a fucking this gifted high school and everything.
He had a bright future ahead of himself and he
just got caught up in this. But like he's bad, right,
like he knew it was happening, but did they have

(59:40):
something over him? Like I get a little bit confused
with the plot of this one.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Oh, it's because he fucked up that like aspirin, because
he fucked up because he wouldn't, like, you know, act
enough like a gangster.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Like he also didn't even want to be a part
of it. Yeah, they bullied him into it.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
He didn't do a good job, and then they decided
to But he he just shouldn't have gone over, like
they should have left the Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
But like I said, it's like a worldview and they
don't have it. But he was also he probably had
a totally different worldview. He was going to this like
gifted programs school. Yeah, it's devastating, but also betrayals climax.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
You know, it's like an uncomfortable it's all uncomfortable. Yes,
it's all very uncomfortable. Yeah, it's all sad. I've convoluted
and tell us about the crime.

Speaker 4 (01:00:32):
Okay, so this episode is based on a like assault
that took place with MS thirteen, which you know, for
a lot of people, MS thirteen is like the right
wing talking point gang that we talk about all the time.
MS thirteen is just flooding into this country and blah
blah blah. But it stands for Mara Salvatruca, which is

(01:00:58):
MS thirteen. It's an international criminal gang that originated in
La in cal in the eighties and originally the gang
was set up to protect Salvadoran immigrants from other gangs
in Los Angeles, but it eventually turned into like a
more traditional gang, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
So like originally it was like.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
No, let's like support our fellow, you know, Salvadorans, and
then no, it turned into you know, running drugs, guns, murder, rape,
all kinds of crimes in the Richmond, Virginia area. In
August of twenty thirteen, Jose Armando Brand aka Pantro, which oh, okay,

(01:01:40):
Pantro is just Panthro, which is the name of a
character in the Thundercat series.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
But I don't know if that's where this guy got
his nickname.

Speaker 4 (01:01:47):
That a Thundercat's nickname might be a little embarrassing for
like the leader of a clique.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
But he is thirty years old.

Speaker 4 (01:01:54):
He gets two consecutive life sentences for crimes he committed
and orchestrated.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
As the leader of a.

Speaker 4 (01:01:59):
MS thirteen subset or click called Sailor's locos saval truca
and I hope I'm pronouncing that right. I'm not a
perfect Spanish speaker. And then allegedly Jose Mancilla Martinez aka
Ready became the new leader of this click within a
mesertine which is in the Chesterfield County, Virginia area. So

(01:02:22):
he was he was given the life sentences in August
of twenty thirteen. But this crime is happening. He obviously
got arrested much earlier, and that's when the year before,
and that's when Jose Moncia Martinez aka Ready took over
the mantle. So on August eighteenth of twenty twelve, this
girl is visiting a friend at her friend's apartment complex

(01:02:44):
and later she's waiting outside for her ride when Moncia
Martinez or Ready, who was seventeen at the time and
is taking over this click of this gang. But he's seventeen,
I thought, you know, he approaches her, uh with Hario
Jose Hernandez, also seventeen. They offered this girl a ride

(01:03:05):
and she takes it because she knows them and she
feels like safe with them, okay, and they take her
back to Mancia Martinez's apartment between sometime between midnight and
one am, where they all watched TV for a bit,
and then she asked them to take her home and
Mancia Martinez said they'd take her, but first she had
to do something for them, alluding to something sexual, and

(01:03:28):
the girl said that they quote must be kidding and
also said, quote don't be stupid.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
But then as she was sitting on the.

Speaker 4 (01:03:35):
Couch, Moncia Martinez forced her down by her shoulders. When
she screamed, he pulled a machete on her. So both girl,
both boys raped this girl and like at machete point.
I don't know how to say it other than that like,
and then took her home, where she told her mother
what happened. They waited a couple of days to call
the police because both boys were affiliated with MS thirteen

(01:03:57):
and they feared retribution, and then Moncilla Martinez eventually was
arrested and charged as an adult in Chesterfield County Court
Circuit Court, but he claimed the sex was consensual. And
I'm almost surprised that they were able to get a
conviction just because if she waited a few days. I

(01:04:18):
don't know if there was physical evidence or whatever, but
just like you know, they make rape the hardest thing
to fucking prove ever, and these kids are claiming that
it was consensual. But on January ninth, twenty thirteen, he
is found guilty of forcible rape by a jury and
actually very SVU. He admitted his gang affiliation while talking

(01:04:39):
to a forensic psychologist, doctor Evan Nelson, during court ordered
psychological sexual evaluation. So he had a huang in his
life that he just opened up to at this thing.
And Nelson wrote in his report that Mancilla Martinez asserted
that even though the MS thirteen gang was own for crimes,

(01:05:00):
he did not do them, and trying to bolster his point,
he said with misguided sincerity, he spontaneously remarked, ce MS
thirteen is not involved in robbing, They're mostly involved in killing.
Like I think he was trying to be like like,
we don't rob, we just kill, and I don't try
to get himself like off of this.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
But I don't know how what that has to do
with his own crime. That's just like this quote from
the report that I read.

Speaker 4 (01:05:25):
So Mancilla Martinez had also been investigated by the FBI
for a murder in Richmond in twenty twelve, so he's
already on their radar as like a gang member. And
before his sentencing, Chesterfield Circuit Judge Stephen C. McCallum was
presented with evidence that Mancilla Martinez had been involved in
another gang related assault while he was being held in

(01:05:46):
juvenile detention. So he was eventually sentenced to twelve months
for that attack, and then on July seventeenth, twenty thirteen,
which is eleven months after he committed this rape, the
judge sentenced him to forty years in prison with twenty
years suspend. So it's twenty years for raping this fifteen
year old girl while holding her at machete point. He

(01:06:06):
must also register as a Virginia sex offender when he's out.
He currently is serving his sentence in Red Onion State
Prison in Pound, Virginia, which is like near the border
of Kentucky. And I looked him up and his release
date is listed as November twelfth, twenty thirty two, so
that's in seven years.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
And it's just like kind of fucked.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
Because like what the guy said in the episode is true,
Like I think prisons are places that gangs just recruit
new members. So the other boy, Hernandez.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
So you need loyalty you need protection, you need you
need protection and prisons. So it's like, yeah, yeah, i'd
be fucking desperate. I probably joined something I didn't want to. Yes, yeah,
we can't all be Edward Norton in the corner reading
you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (01:06:48):
No, no, exactly exactly. I mean there's yeah, there's episode
like I mean in Sons of Anarchy, there's like a
whole storyline about this guy who is in this motorcycle
gang even though and he can't let them find out
that he's part black because they're so racist that he's like,
but then in jail, like he's you know, he's got

(01:07:10):
to get in with these gangs and stuff for present,
for help or protection, you know. So it's I don't know,
it's a it's a complicated ecosystem in prison.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
But because I have.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Hebrew letters on the back of my heads, manek, so
I wouldn't really be able to join the like white power.

Speaker 4 (01:07:26):
So I don't know why that would be tough. I
think you could be taken in by other groups. I
think other groups would take you in for your for
your other your saying.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
If someone recognized me from Survival of the Thickest, I
could join the Black group.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
Yeah, it's Michelle Putoe's roommate.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
I think that's my only way to protection. Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Well, if it was orange and New Black, I mean
red is Russian, right, would she have taken you under
her wing?

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
I I think she.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Yeah, unless she really hated Jews too, I'm really not sure.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Yeah, it's a great question. I think she was okay
with you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Yeah, I think I could join maybe a I don't
want to fuck with the I don't know, girl, It's
not an ideal situation, no matter how he slice it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
I'm just saying, so he is. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:08:23):
So then the other guy, uh, the other one who
was seventeen at the time, eighteen at the time of sentencing, Hernandez.
He pled guilty and marched also to rape and was
sentenced to three and a half years in a state
juvenile correctional facility. And I get, and I guess as
part of a blended sentence of juvenile and adult punishment,
which I had never heard of before. Hernandez also got

(01:08:44):
ten years in adult prison, but with all ten years suspended.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
So I don't really.

Speaker 4 (01:08:48):
Get that, but I guess his lawyer probably made a
case like if you plead guilty, We'll get you juvenile
because it wasn't your idea and this guy was clearly
the leader and he probably said.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
He made you do it or something like that. I
don't know, but.

Speaker 4 (01:09:03):
Yes, Chesterfield Prosecutor BJ McGee said Mancia Martinez instigated the
attack and Hernandez was pressured by his friend to participate.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
So that is the story.

Speaker 4 (01:09:13):
And yeah, it's not like widely reported on outside of
the Richmond area press outlets that I that I found,
But I mean, I'm sure there's a many, many unreported
instances of guys and gangs using attacks on girlfriends as

(01:09:33):
like leverage and payback and revenge and all kinds of stuff.
So it's not like this is the only thing that
this was probably based on.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
But that case happened.

Speaker 4 (01:09:43):
Like, yeah, a year before this episode came out about,
So that's.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
That on that.

Speaker 4 (01:09:50):
But yeah, dark all around. But we have a guest.
We have a great guest, So fantastic guess. Don't go anywhere.
Our guest today is an actor and filmmaker who you
may know from shows like Younger or Donnie. She also wrote, directed,

(01:10:11):
and starred in the feature films The Country Club and
a New York story, but you know her best as
our victim in today's episode, Avery Capshaw. Please enjoy our
very interesting conversation with Fiona Robert. This is uh so
fun that we get to talk to you. You're like
the big part of this episode betrayals climax.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
Tell me about the audition. Yeah, I'm like reading praumatic art.

Speaker 6 (01:10:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
I had a weird title too, like it's like a real.

Speaker 4 (01:10:40):
Totally fucked up yes. Wait yeah, not me, just understanding
that right now. When you pointed it out, I was like,
what do you mean, Oh my god, ill.

Speaker 5 (01:10:51):
Yeah, it's definitely like a hook title, right, like it's yeah,
I'm the audition for it. So I this was like
the first job I ever got in New York, and
I had actually auditioned for a different episode of Law
and Order that I and all I wanted was to
be on Law and Order because every actor that I
respected had done one Law and Order episode in their career.

(01:11:13):
So I was like desperate to get on the show.
And so I was called in for a different episode.
Actually I don't know if you guys are going to
look at it, but it was about a girl who
was like trapped in a cave or like in a
basement for a long time.

Speaker 6 (01:11:32):
Yeah, we can't say defectively.

Speaker 5 (01:11:34):
Yeah, So I got pretty close to that one, like
I had a producer session and everything, and then and
meand I didn't get it, and the feedback was that
I didn't look like I had been in the cave
for like an abasement for like a month. I think
I was like a little too I don't know, like
polished or cute or whatever not to you know, but anyway,

(01:11:54):
so then I was like okay, sad. And then I
got actually a tape for this, so I didn't go
in the room, I don't think. I think I just
taped for it, like a self tape, and then they
offered it to me like almost immediately, because I think
I had already been through the audition process, so they
already knew that I could like go in front of
people and deliver, and they just were looking for someone

(01:12:16):
that would do this part. And then I actually learned
later that like nobody wanted this part except for me.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
Well did they tell you? Which understandably understandable.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
But SVU is always pretty graphic and fucked, so I'm
wondering what specifically about this one turned people away.

Speaker 5 (01:12:35):
So I went in years later to audition for the
same casting director for like a series regular part.

Speaker 6 (01:12:41):
I think it was like Chicago med or something.

Speaker 5 (01:12:44):
And when I walked into the audition, actually he said
like she was on like one of the hardest episodes
of SVU that I ever had to cast. And I
think it was because there's like there was like three
pivotal scenes where in the script it said like she
is bawling.

Speaker 6 (01:13:03):
It was like when she.

Speaker 5 (01:13:04):
Almost jumps off the roof, and then when she admits
to like the rape, and then again when she admits
to like having the orgasm.

Speaker 6 (01:13:13):
And I think it's like a very vulnerable scene.

Speaker 5 (01:13:16):
Like those are really vulnerable scenes, all three of them
alone and in like a show or an episode would
be intense. And then to have to be at that,
not to use the word, but climax of emotion is like,
you know, I think actresses would look at that and
just go like, you know, they give you two takes
on lawn order, Yeah, two takes, So like what if

(01:13:37):
I get cast and then I go in there and
I can't do it in two takes?

Speaker 6 (01:13:41):
I think it's scary for actors.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
So what is your method to be able to kind
of deliver in the in these moments. Well, because you
delivered her You're out, you were crying, you were in
a the emotion was there.

Speaker 5 (01:13:55):
Yeah, I mean I was a Meisner actor, Like I
went to NYU and so it's like, I.

Speaker 6 (01:14:00):
Oh, that sounds funny.

Speaker 5 (01:14:01):
It's like no, it's more that like that was what
I was doing every day in class. So like I
think I was just like in the in the world
of it, because like that was what Meisner acting is
is you have to like go and imagine deeply these
like horrific things that have happened to you, like every day.
So sorry that sounded so catty, but but what I

(01:14:22):
mean is just like I was doing it in class
every day.

Speaker 6 (01:14:24):
Yeah, so it was pretty easy.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
You trained for this. You trained for this so well.

Speaker 4 (01:14:30):
I mean I was looking at your IMDb and like,
this seems like it was one of your first gigs,
although you were in a show for ten episodes called
Sex House, and I'd love to tell more about that,
but but like, were you feeling kind of like new,
like because you hadn't done like a ton of on
camera stuff yet, Like, were you like a little nervous
going into it?

Speaker 5 (01:14:51):
Yeah, I mean I didn't really definitely, it was definitely
like my first TV thing. And even after that, I
was on Younger and there was still things I was
learning about TV that I didn't really understand, like hitting
a mark, for example, and I thought it was sort
of like a loose you stand sort of right here,
because that's kind of how it is in theater. And

(01:15:12):
I did a lot of theater growing up and in Chicago,
and I just but then I learned, like when I
was on Younger even later, that's no, the mark is
the mark.

Speaker 6 (01:15:21):
I was like, okay, because you've got to be in
focused on camera. Yeah I was, but I wasn't.

Speaker 5 (01:15:27):
I don't remember being nervous because I remember just really
wanting to be on the show and also knowing that,
like I don't know, it was like that I could
do it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
So it was fine and you were prepared, you were ready.

Speaker 6 (01:15:39):
I was ready, guys.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
And then it says that Philip Seymour Hoffman on your
IMDb discovered you you're in a play with Tom Hardy, like,
well at the Goodman Theater, which is you know, very
well known.

Speaker 5 (01:15:54):
Tell us about that, Well, yeah, this was it's so
funny now, I'm looking back on this like career retrospect.
It's like all my parts happened in like a very
similar way. Where again they were like looking for someone
who was the actual age. It was a play at
the Goodman and the girl was supposed to be fifteen,

(01:16:15):
I think or fourteen, and they had a lot of
actresses coming in who were trying to play that age,
and they said, we want someone who's actually that age.
So they reached out to my high school because I
was at the Arts high school and my teacher put
me up for it, and I went in and auditioned
for a Philip Seymour Hoffmann and the playwright Brett ce Leonard,

(01:16:36):
who's wonderful and apparently okay. So we got in like
a little bit of like a tiff because Phili kept
saying to me, you're not listening, You're not listening, like
he was very into like listening on stage and just
like being in the moment listening reacting, and I was like,
I don't know what you're freaking talking about. I'm hearing
the words, I'm saying the lines, I am listening, and

(01:16:57):
he after I left, the playwright told me late he
was like, not her like not her, and I was like, okay.

Speaker 6 (01:17:04):
So then what happened was I didn't hear anything for
like two weeks.

Speaker 5 (01:17:07):
And then I'm at my friend's house actually in Evanston,
and I get a phone call from my mom and
she's like, there's a voicemail. They want you to come
back in, Like it's the audition is this morning, Saturday,
ten am. Like they keep calling and they've left all
these voicemails to see if you're coming or not because
we just didn't like, look, the voicemail's on the landline, right,

(01:17:27):
And so I go back in and I audition and
it goes really really well, and I end up getting
the part.

Speaker 6 (01:17:35):
And the playwright told me later that for that callback,
the casting director actually put my name back on the
list like at the bottom and the and Phil was like, no,
we've already seen this girl, like she's not we're not
doing this, and the casting director was like, just please
see her again. I really think she's the one for

(01:17:56):
this part, and he just like put my name on
the list anyway, and so they saw me again and
then I just remember that one going really well. Oh
I know why, because I decided when I went into
the audition. I was like, I'm whatever he says, I'm
just gonna agree with Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:11):
I was like, so there you go. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:18:14):
When I went back and I was like, yeah, yeah,
no I see the difference. Yeah, no, I definitely So
that was I got it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
I'm obsessed with this casting director.

Speaker 6 (01:18:25):
Yeah. He was amazing. He like started my career. What's
his name, Adam God?

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
He was.

Speaker 6 (01:18:32):
He was wonderful.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Yeah. I'm glad they're finally getting an oscar and getting recognized.
And I feel like casting's really been shunned aside in
terms of Adam Belcour. Okay, shout out to Adam Belcour.
Adam Belcour fighting for people.

Speaker 5 (01:18:48):
It's quite literally, I don't know if the story is
true either. I'm full of like stories of maybe true.

Speaker 1 (01:18:53):
Who knows what story? Did it run for?

Speaker 6 (01:18:57):
It ran first, I think for six weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
So what was your life like? Full high school?

Speaker 2 (01:19:02):
And then we're and then you would run off a day. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:19:05):
I would leave every day at three and I would
do like four or five hours of rehearsal, I think.
And then there were some days that I was there
all day from ten am onward, and it was amazing
to be in the room with Tom Hardy and Philip
Seymour Hoffman and watch them work together and the playwrights
and the whole team that was involved because it was
only five people in the play, so it was a

(01:19:28):
very intimate cast. And yeah, everyone's gone on to do
amazing things. And I remember Tom Hardy showing me a
book of He's like, this is a movie that I
just shot, like this is the press kit book and
it was for Inception the Crystal.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
Oh wow.

Speaker 5 (01:19:43):
Yeah, And I didn't know that the time that was
going to be this like huge movie and I was like,
really cool, Tommy, And.

Speaker 1 (01:19:49):
Then trying to tell you what it's about, You're like, cool,
makes sense. Yeah, I still haven't seen it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
Wait, but Tom Hardy is one of the top hot
people in the nation. Were I would say, so full
movie star now. Yeah, And did you feel like you
were a teen where you were like this guy's hot.

Speaker 6 (01:20:09):
No, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:20:11):
I think because he played my dad in the play. Yeah,
I was like very as an actor. I was very
much in the space of trying to bond with him
in like a fatherly way.

Speaker 6 (01:20:21):
And actually we did bond over rap music. We were
both very into rap music at the time. And he
made me a mixed CD which I still have, Oh
my God of British rap music. And I made him
a Little Wing CD mixed.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
Seed wowing together.

Speaker 6 (01:20:42):
Culture is coming together.

Speaker 5 (01:20:43):
And there's like a great photo of us sitting on
a couch and I have one ear pod and he
has the other ear pod and we're for sure listening
to Little Wing.

Speaker 1 (01:20:49):
Oh my god, that's cute.

Speaker 6 (01:20:51):
Wow, maybe I can take it up.

Speaker 1 (01:20:53):
You and Tom Hardy besties forever.

Speaker 4 (01:20:56):
I love that.

Speaker 6 (01:20:57):
Well, yeah, now the email bounces if I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:20:59):
Like, are you still doing theater actively or is it not?

Speaker 1 (01:21:06):
You want to be on films?

Speaker 6 (01:21:08):
I yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:21:10):
I I think I wasn't really interested in theater very
much when I moved to New York, which is crazy,
but only because I think as an actor, I'm the
type of person that digs very, very deep, and I
found it to be really hard to be digging really
deep for eight shows a week when they're paying you
three hundred dollars. And then also somebody's like, no, I

(01:21:32):
haven't seen it because it's theeter yeah, And I was like,
if I'm going to go this deep and work this hard,
I want people to see it. And appreciate it, and
so I just didn't feel that it was like worth.
I just I was exhausting for me to try to
do that. But I'd love to do theater now. I
don't know, but I'm actually filmmaking more now.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
And yeah, I want to ask you about that. I
was seeing on your IMDb.

Speaker 4 (01:21:57):
You've got the Country Club, a fellow s v Alum,
James Romaniac, Friend of the Pod, and Elaine Hendrix from
Parent Trap, who I know we all stand.

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
And then you've made a New.

Speaker 4 (01:22:09):
York story and then you with your sister in these
movies and right, and like, yeah, but you're in them
and you direct and write them.

Speaker 5 (01:22:19):
Yeah, And I mean it's all from the same place,
which is that I was really finding it hard to
dig deep for projects that were like horror films and
things that I you know, I felt like I was
just working so hard on stuff and then it was
sort of there's a lot of violence that was not

(01:22:39):
really thought through, and a lot of rape not really
thought through, like used as a plot device. So I
started writing with my sister because I just wanted more
control over like what I was going to be in
and then what I was going to truly like dig
deep for and so we started writing and producing, and
we just finished our third feature, which we did right,

(01:23:00):
but we helped produce, which is very exciting stars Dustin Hoffman,
Andre Holland, Alison Brie and Tom Sturage, and so that
is hopefully going to come out next year.

Speaker 6 (01:23:13):
Write director Alex Black, and then.

Speaker 1 (01:23:16):
We're also working tell us.

Speaker 6 (01:23:18):
Yeah it's called The Revisionist, okay. And then our fourth
feature is going to be a murder mystery. So we're
doing that now. Yeah, And I find that.

Speaker 5 (01:23:27):
To be a lot more fulfilling because I just I
feel so creative. I still put myself in the projects.
I'm in the Dustin Hoffman movie as well, like I
you know, I do all of that, and we worked
with other amazing producers.

Speaker 6 (01:23:38):
We're not the leads on that one. I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:23:41):
I just think like grabbing control of your own creativity
and your own work as an actor can be really fulfilling.
But also the industry has I'm so long winded, I'll
pause so you.

Speaker 1 (01:23:50):
Can no go ahead. You're being interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
It's not like a boring nightmare that we've you know,
we don't edit around this.

Speaker 5 (01:24:01):
Well, I just going to say that since Lawn Order, right,
and since I decided I didn't want to audition for horror
movies where I was being raped, and I'm.

Speaker 6 (01:24:08):
Like digging deep for that.

Speaker 5 (01:24:10):
I the industry has changed so much, and I feel
like the actresses that are coming up now are so
freaking lucky because the character breakdowns. For me, when I
was eighteen nineteen going out for this stuff, every single
character is had hot.

Speaker 6 (01:24:24):
At the front.

Speaker 5 (01:24:25):
It doesn't matter if she was about to be like killed,
you know, run over by a truck. They're like, but hot.
And I was like, okay, and now that's not the case.

Speaker 4 (01:24:33):
I see I don't forget hot, but she doesn't know it. Yes, exactly,
that's important. She can't know it, right.

Speaker 6 (01:24:41):
Yes, No, you're absolutely right.

Speaker 5 (01:24:42):
I would always say that specifically because I would go
out for those I was never going out for, Like
she's a model.

Speaker 6 (01:24:48):
I was going out for hot, but she.

Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
Goes out for sure.

Speaker 6 (01:24:53):
Yeah. So now it's almost like I went through this.
I started filmmaking and doing all this like doing extra,
you know, being real the extra, And now the industry
has changed, so I just waited it out.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
Yeah you're still in it. You could do anything. But yeah,
you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
Breakdowns now are definitely like open to all. That doesn't
mean that that's how casting will go, but definitely the
breakdowns are like we're open to anything and anything more conscious.

Speaker 5 (01:25:18):
So they're like buy some more conscious, like yeah, body
type and looks and open ethnicity. I mean, just wasn't
like that back then.

Speaker 4 (01:25:26):
Yeah, and now it are just famous people's children, right,
I was got to say, And now it's like, how
many follows, followers do you have?

Speaker 1 (01:25:33):
You can be in this movie?

Speaker 6 (01:25:34):
Well, evil doesn't die.

Speaker 1 (01:25:36):
Yeah, that's so true. It takes on different forms. Yeah. Wow,
that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
Did you always work well with your sister? Was she
always artsy and went to the same high school as you.

Speaker 5 (01:25:49):
She didn't go to the same high school, but she
was a ballerina and she studied in Germany at a
serious state ballet.

Speaker 6 (01:25:56):
School in Germany.

Speaker 1 (01:25:57):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (01:25:57):
And then she decided it was too hard on them
is a lot of ballerinas do. And she wanted to
get into acting, and I wanted to get into like
writing and directing. I mean I was like twenty four
when I decided that. And I called her and I said,
I'm making an LLC and I can either call it
X or I can call.

Speaker 6 (01:26:15):
It Robert's Sisters. What do you think? And she's like sure, yeah, yeah.
So that's how we started our company.

Speaker 5 (01:26:22):
And we made this like little movie, The Country Club,
which is like very fun and funny, and I.

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):
Know John Higgins.

Speaker 6 (01:26:30):
Yes, so we loved John Higgins.

Speaker 5 (01:26:32):
We got and he was amazing in it, and he's
so funny and it's so funny because I look back
on that movie and I just like, wish it was
like slightly better made.

Speaker 6 (01:26:42):
But that's my fault. No, I'm not. I have twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:26:45):
I actually just started watching what's his name Wes Anderson
on YouTube. It's like a fifty five minute video of
him going through all his projects.

Speaker 1 (01:26:52):
I'm sure he's like doing press for something new.

Speaker 2 (01:26:55):
And I started it last night and it's him talking
about Bottle Rocket and he's like, yeah, it wasn't that good,
but this and that and this sucked, and that didn't
work out and this and it's you know, then you
make more.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
I watched Bottle Rockets seventy five times in college. My
favorite movie.

Speaker 6 (01:27:09):
Yeah, I used to love that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
I love it sucked and how.

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
This I'm like, didn't suck for me? When I was
twenty one, he.

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
Said, like, first day making it, they kept and he goes,
and then the scene started working in the takes, so
we were figuring stuff out.

Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
So it is, you know, a process.

Speaker 5 (01:27:24):
But I'm very proud of our second movie, A New
York Story, which it's so funny, is a gentler look
at class because it's about a woman from the Upper
East Side and she falls in love with the street
photographer who's like from green Point and it's a very
simp like it's it has parallels to this Law and
Order episode, the sort of romance from one side of

(01:27:45):
the tracks or whatever. But yeah, that's our second movie.
And I that one premiered at Bentonville in Arkansas, which
is Geina Davis's film festival, and so it's a vertical
and that one's on Apple TV, and so I think
that's like a better example of my filmmaking work.

Speaker 4 (01:28:04):
But it's really like impressive that at twenty four you
were just like I'm in a storm making movies, Like
I don't think a lot of people would think that
they could do that or would know how to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:28:15):
That's really impressive, Like thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:28:17):
Well. It actually coincided with I think Trump's first election,
and I remember I literally remember having the thought, if
that man can be the president of the United States,
I think I can make a movie. It was like, yeah,
all the walls came crashing down of idealizing men and
thinking that like them being in positions of power was
like the right thing.

Speaker 6 (01:28:38):
And I was just like, oh no, like I can
do this. So I couldn't, but I.

Speaker 1 (01:28:44):
Thought like, no, you can.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
The still all looks so good, like all these photos.
So are your parents artsy?

Speaker 6 (01:28:52):
My parents are both union psychologists. Okay, wish I was enough.

Speaker 1 (01:29:00):
Of ungian psychologists.

Speaker 5 (01:29:03):
And my mom is a professional astrologer, so like me
more la.

Speaker 1 (01:29:11):
Yeah wait, that's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (01:29:14):
Like your sister went to ballet, you were at an
arts high school, Tonight's I mean these psychologists were supportive.

Speaker 5 (01:29:20):
That Young is all about finding your own path, and
he's also about you know, imagery and like the hero's journey.

Speaker 2 (01:29:28):
Young psychologists. Yeah yeah, young Young Union like the unions.
Unions they're on the picket line, like they're helping people
in unions get through their problems.

Speaker 1 (01:29:40):
Okay, that makes more sense.

Speaker 6 (01:29:42):
Maybe I got it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:44):
I didn't get it.

Speaker 5 (01:29:46):
Yeah, No, they're both psychologists and they're young young psychologists.

Speaker 2 (01:29:50):
Wait but did they meet in psychology? She's school like, well,
so they both.

Speaker 6 (01:29:56):
Of one met it Notre Dame.

Speaker 1 (01:29:57):
Yeah, so what okay? Would you guys talk about young
growing up all the time?

Speaker 5 (01:30:03):
Like all the time, every and every dream I had,
my dad was like, let's talk about that, like what
what does it mean that you're standing in the cornfields
like this and that? And so my family was always
very like image based because young young is all about dreams,
So the image of in the dream is very important
and what you and so for me, I think that's

(01:30:24):
transferred into filmmaking that I'm all about the image of
like not you know, what are we conveying from the
conscious collective, which is Young's like big thing, the zeitgeist,
the conscious collective? What are you conveying through the image composition?
It's very right in a lot of ways.

Speaker 6 (01:30:40):
I think filmmaking and writing is like a better pursuit
for me maybe than acting because I have a large
understanding depth and understanding of archetypes and like image and
all that so from my parents.

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):
But wow, is there anything you've learned about like being
on the sets and doing all this that informs your
film making or like when you're directing on set, or
like a way you felt where you're like, oh, I'm
going to make sure to do this or I don't
want to do this when I'm in charge.

Speaker 1 (01:31:08):
If you have the actor's perspective so much.

Speaker 6 (01:31:11):
Yeah, no, it there, it has.

Speaker 5 (01:31:14):
But it's hard to think of one thing because I
definitely still when I'm working with actors, I think about
like what would Phil do? He was definitely my biggest
directing mentor because he's the director I actually spend the
most time in the room with. I think our phearsal
process was like four weeks or five weeks every day,

(01:31:34):
and so I mean, you know, his his process that
I think is really important is being like extremely prepared
and ready. So I get frustrated when like actors on
other lines, like I will admit to that, I'm like,
it was your one job. And I remember how angry

(01:31:55):
Phil would get at like Tammy if he just like
didn't do something that was like written on the page
or whatever. But also his he used to say like
you have to go further. You have it here, and
now what's after that, what's under that? And constantly trying
to get that feeling in your stomach of like what

(01:32:17):
it is that you're truly going through. But of course
that's like more deep things. And I actually think film
directing is a little bit different than theater directing. So
now I'm a little bit more loose with words and
improvisation on film. I think that for some reason, on camera,
the camera loves those moments. And so that's been a
lesson that I've learned. I used to be more of

(01:32:39):
a stickler for like what I had written and what
I wrote, and now I'm like, actually, the camera loves
to see the moments of improvisation, So I just I
take things from.

Speaker 6 (01:32:50):
You know, lots of different experiences.

Speaker 5 (01:32:52):
And then because that's something that like dust And Offen
was saying, you know, he was like when we were
on set with him, he was saying, if you see
a director and they're standing at the monitor and they're
mouthing every word, don't work with them, because he was like,
they just want to see their words on screen. They
don't want to see like you know, you need to
have a live performance.

Speaker 6 (01:33:13):
And so then I was like, oh no, like one
of those directors.

Speaker 1 (01:33:15):
So then I.

Speaker 6 (01:33:16):
Felt like that was a big learning moment.

Speaker 5 (01:33:18):
So I'm still learning and just getting to work with
great actors and great directors.

Speaker 6 (01:33:21):
You continue to.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
Yeah, it just hit me that, like you directed Dustin Hoffman. No, no,
I didn't. I helped produce produce.

Speaker 6 (01:33:30):
Yes, I was with him. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:33:35):
Did you have any other like s vu, any interactions
with the cast besides I know you said Marushka was
really supportive and complimentary.

Speaker 1 (01:33:44):
Iced tea, Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:33:47):
Maloney was gone by that key or about like the
makeup and hair team because you had to do a
lot that you know, you got bruises, you had a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:33:54):
Of Oh yeah, oh yeah, I so iced tea. I
was eating ice cream underneath the underneath the interrogation table,
like during a scene. He kept like at when they
would cut, he would like the bite of ice cream.
It was the last episode of the season. I think
that they were shooting, so they were doing sort of

(01:34:16):
like a big celebratory Christmas thing. I'm pretty sure mrsh
got like pink berry for everybody and there was like
a full hog on the craft table. The budget the
budget was like out of control for the food. Which
now was a filmmaker, I'm I can appreciate him that
was called but in terms.

Speaker 6 (01:34:34):
Of makeup and hair team.

Speaker 5 (01:34:35):
I do have one funny story, which was that when
I went in, they like dusted my face with powder basically,
and then they were like, Okay, you're good to go.

Speaker 6 (01:34:45):
And I was like, what, Like, I'm gonna be on TV.

Speaker 5 (01:34:49):
For the first time and you're not gonna make me
look pretty? And they were like, well, the director doesn't
think that, like she should look very good because she's
about to jump off the building or you know.

Speaker 6 (01:35:00):
And I was like, oh right, okay.

Speaker 5 (01:35:03):
And so I like left the trailer and I'm look
looking at my face and I'm like, okay, it's just
I'm going in bare face.

Speaker 6 (01:35:08):
And I had this chapstick that was like slightly tinted,
so I was like, what if I just put this
like chapstick on my lips?

Speaker 5 (01:35:17):
And so I did, and then we had to do
like a photo shoot pictures of me and Manny that
they were going to use in the background I think
are on social media or something. So we do the
photo shoot and then the ad I think comes out.
She's like are you wearing lipstick? And I was like what,
no o? And they were like I was like, oh,

(01:35:37):
I do have this chapstick that's tinted.

Speaker 6 (01:35:40):
I guess I shouldn't put that on.

Speaker 5 (01:35:41):
And they were like no, please, like we're gonna take
that off and like redo it.

Speaker 6 (01:35:44):
And I was like okay, So yeah, I don't know.
I was like vain. I think I was like eighteen
or nineteen, so whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:35:52):
Now I feel yeah, no, but also what attention to
detail that they noticed the tint the light tent.

Speaker 6 (01:35:58):
Good for them, absolutely, jeez.

Speaker 1 (01:36:00):
I love him eating ice cream underneath the table.

Speaker 5 (01:36:03):
I know I friends that they were like ice team
or like ice cream he was.

Speaker 2 (01:36:09):
He was in Times Square yesterday. I got a lot
of people sending me scoopy really. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:36:14):
He was doing Raising Canes press promo.

Speaker 4 (01:36:18):
Of course that's his second most important venture, I think,
behind us v you.

Speaker 2 (01:36:22):
But I have friends that work at Nickelodeon, so it's
in Times Square, so they're like they just saw him
on the way to work.

Speaker 4 (01:36:30):
Oh my gosh, oh Fiona, thank you so much for
taking the time.

Speaker 1 (01:36:33):
This was.

Speaker 4 (01:36:39):
Damn so young, so accomplished and driven. Another good review
from Ted. He liked Fiona. Oh yeah, oh yeah, but
he goes, how do how do I come up?

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):
I go, I bring you up to anyone that went
to NYO or like has acted in New York.

Speaker 1 (01:36:55):
I go, I'm pushing you. I'm pushing the attenda.

Speaker 4 (01:36:59):
Sorry dead, but you're like, you're not actually just like
organically coming up through the person.

Speaker 1 (01:37:04):
It's Lisa mostly is bringing you up. But uh yeah, sorry,
if you can hear my kids.

Speaker 4 (01:37:10):
By the way, guys, they are fighting outside the door
of where I'm recording.

Speaker 1 (01:37:14):
I'm on, I'm traveling.

Speaker 4 (01:37:15):
Uh but post mortem on this episode, God, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:37:20):
It's like, don't these date people in gangs? Say that?
Is that politically correct?

Speaker 2 (01:37:26):
I don't think you should date someone in a gang
if you could get out of the gang, get out.

Speaker 1 (01:37:30):
Of the gang.

Speaker 4 (01:37:30):
The problem is is that this kid was like smart
and I think really did love her at some point,
you know, at some point before he got fully like
roped into the crime. But he like they get you
at every angle. They're like, we're gonna kill your grandma,
We're gonna kill this person, We're gonna you know, like
you you you lose any control, they find a way

(01:37:52):
to get to you.

Speaker 1 (01:37:53):
Yeah, so everyone's dead. Oh my god, it's so intense.

Speaker 2 (01:37:58):
Yeah, yeah, it's uh, but she keeps saying about him,
even when even at the end it's just like, you know,
like he loved me more than anything.

Speaker 1 (01:38:07):
I'm like, I don't know this, Yeah, this is stuff.
What was his option, like to take his grandmother and
go hide? I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:38:14):
It's uh yeah, gang stuff always feels I mean, it
feel it's like mafia. It's like it's organized crime. You know,
it's uh, it's a network. It's not just like one perpetrator.
It's like fully a community. But then I understand why
a lot of circumstances lead people to believe that they're
protected and they're being treated well in these in these groups.

Speaker 2 (01:38:34):
You know. I just hate when this show makes me
feel opposite of how I feel, because I'm like, just
listen to your father.

Speaker 1 (01:38:40):
He wasn't no good.

Speaker 4 (01:38:41):
Yeah, you know, I mean yeah, because the parents were
probably just like being racist, and then they were like,
oh no, we were right, they were right in this case.
In this case, they were right, but god damn. And
then the real story was like.

Speaker 1 (01:38:55):
Only date within your class. That's the only way of
that where.

Speaker 4 (01:38:59):
Yeah, you have to just within your class, you know us,
That's how we feel.

Speaker 5 (01:39:04):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
One of our friends was wearing a shirt she got
for ninety eight dollars, but it was a four hundred
dollars shirt, and like it looked so expensive and so
comfortable in chic, like Gwyneth Paltry would wear this shirt
and it was a casual shirt, not a dressed up shirt.
And I'm like, this is the wealthy. This is why
we can't even they know what they could see right
through us, Like we can't even pretend this shirt just

(01:39:28):
like I couldn't believe how nice it looked, button down silk.
I go, wow, It's like it's just a different vibe
and energy. So when I do those rich people shows
at the private clubs, I'm like, it's just kind of crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:39:41):
Your outfit costs thousands.

Speaker 2 (01:39:43):
It's like when Taylor Swift they do her outfit breakdowns,
and even without the jewelry, just like skirt, shirt, shoes, purse,
it's usually around six thousand dollars if not more. Yeah,
with two pieces usually still being affordable.

Speaker 4 (01:39:59):
Yeah, which it's crazy because usually the purses are like
in the in the five figures, you know, like ten
thousand dollars, twenty thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:40:05):
Person, No, I mean you're right, I'm even under selling it.

Speaker 4 (01:40:09):
Like, yeah, you know, and that's that's upper twenty five thousand,
the shades twenty five thousand. You know, that's a yeah,
housewatch reference for the people that can't see me. I'm
holding I'm looking at my glasses and saying twenty five thousand.
I am staying close by to some pizza place or
Italian place that apparently Taylor Swift goes to all the
time in Brooklyn called Lukali.

Speaker 1 (01:40:32):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:40:32):
I think that was one of the first times they
went to dinner in oh Okay. It's like apparently, let
me look haf to get in there because she goes
there and all these like famous people go there. Yeah,
this was like one of the first dinners. This was
like exciting sheer sheer outfit.

Speaker 1 (01:40:47):
Nice.

Speaker 4 (01:40:48):
Oh but her and Travis were first dating. You mean yeah,
I really think so. Let me just double check the
date on the article. Yeah, September seven, twenty twenty four.

Speaker 2 (01:40:58):
Yeah, but I only know it from like the paparazzi photos. Wow,
Blake Lively and what's her face? All of that kind
of is done right.

Speaker 4 (01:41:08):
Done out of the zeitgeist of oh you mean her
and the all it ends with us drama.

Speaker 1 (01:41:14):
Yeah, like it's done, everything's been dismissed.

Speaker 2 (01:41:16):
Oh my god, Diddy, I honestly Idaho Diddy, what do
we save it for next week?

Speaker 4 (01:41:21):
I mean at this point, like this is sorry, Like listen,
it's summer, we're traveling. It's like we are in the time, Massie.
I've never taken a day off and not to be
Marian missed an episode. We've never replayed an episode, we've
never done a re release. So by the time this
comes out, we will know the Diddy verdict, like they're
already deciding right now.

Speaker 2 (01:41:39):
They decided he was found not guilty on the most
serious charges, and he was found guilty on two of
the charges. So it's basically like he paid for the
sex trafficking, but he didn't facilitated or something like that.
And in the comments as of yesterday there was they
were they were still deadlock on one charge.

Speaker 4 (01:41:56):
So I didn't know that it was out. Oh oh wow, okay, sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:42:00):
Oh maybe I'm right. Yeah, found guilty on processutequited of.

Speaker 4 (01:42:04):
Sex trafficking and racketeering, the biggest one because that would
have been a minimum of fifteen And so this is
all from an hour ago. You knew this, You knew
this very fresh. Yeah, I've been I don't know. I'm damn,
I've been on it. Yeah, he's gonna get fresh for us.
But you guys will have heard this eight weeks later. Yeah,

(01:42:24):
but you're kind of listening in real time to people,
you know. I just am reading this. This is like,
I'm so shocked. I thought it was like the way
that the news was making it sound was like the
testimony is harrowing. He's gone great during the course of
this trat, like he's going to go to jail.

Speaker 2 (01:42:40):
They're hoping still for four to five years in prison.
I just hope he goes to prison, Like, yeah, I
don't do I wish she sat there for twenty years. Sure,
Like do I believe he is a sex trafficker and
crime like leader?

Speaker 1 (01:42:54):
I do, Sorry, I do that.

Speaker 2 (01:42:56):
Also, the video of him beating the shit out of cats,
like all of it is so fucked up. He also
paid Cassie fifty million dollars like he is guilty of
awful crimes.

Speaker 1 (01:43:04):
He tried to flee on a jet like fuck you.

Speaker 2 (01:43:07):
But if he gets four to five years, it'll be
some sort of justice, some sort But if they don't,
the defense attorneys are trying to fight for two years,
so he'll at least go to jail.

Speaker 4 (01:43:19):
Yeah, and there's like a charge of get that he
assaulted one of his victims while he knew he was
under investigation. Like wow, okay, oh boy, there's too much
and they're going to take out the time that he
already served pre verdict. But yeah, crazy, All right, let's
let's get to what would Sister Peg Do?

Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
This week?

Speaker 4 (01:43:41):
For What Would Sister Peg Do, which you know is
our weekly segment where we direct you towards an article,
a documentary, an organization, something to give you more info
about what we talked about today. This week for WWSPD,
we wanted to point you to Homeboy Industries. They are
an organization that provides training and support to formerly gang
involved in pre incarcerated people, allowing them to redirect their

(01:44:03):
lives and become contributing members of our community. Founded by
father Greg Boyle, it is the world's largest gang intervention
and rehabilitation program. We also do stuff with them in KASA.
I've always heard the greatest things about Homeboys Homeboy Industries,
so definitely get more info and donate, and you can
do that over at Homeboy Industries dot org. That will

(01:44:25):
be linked in our show notes and as always, in
a story that comes out the day this episode is
released on our Instagram.

Speaker 2 (01:44:31):
That's messed up pod. Yeah, get on over there. Yeah,
And next week there's another one. Trick rolled at the Mulan.
I said Mulan like the cartoon princess, not like the
Mulan Rouge.

Speaker 1 (01:44:47):
Do you say them this time? I think you say
the same way.

Speaker 4 (01:44:50):
Well, I saw it as Mulan. Yeah, I would say Mulan, Mulan. Yeah,
I would say Mulan rouge, yeah, m yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:44:57):
But yeah, next week sure, And I'm sorry I signed
so hard. It is what it is. But I'm just
thinking about everything, Okay. Trick at the Mulin.

Speaker 1 (01:45:09):
Oh No.

Speaker 2 (01:45:12):
Season twenty two, episode thirteen. Get with it guys and see.

Speaker 1 (01:45:18):
Us live in New York.

Speaker 4 (01:45:20):
Yeah, it's fourteen, August fourteenth at the Bellhouse. We're so
excited to see you guys live. We'll see you next
week for another episode.

Speaker 1 (01:45:29):
Bye e.

Speaker 2 (01:45:38):
That's messed up as an exactly right production.

Speaker 4 (01:45:41):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email it.
That's messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to That's
Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:45:53):
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
and follow us personally at Kara Klank and Glitter Cheese.

Speaker 4 (01:46:01):
As always, please see our show notes for sources and
more information.

Speaker 2 (01:46:05):
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.

Speaker 4 (01:46:11):
Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, And.

Speaker 2 (01:46:14):
To Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly Geen
Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers
Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly
Right Media.

Speaker 3 (01:46:26):
Dun dun

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Liza Treyger

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Betrayal's Climax w/ Fiona Robert