Closet w/ Bailey Chase

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
These are our stories, Done Done.

Speaker 4 (00:30):
That's Messed Up. An sv podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
My name is Lisa and I'm Kara, and every week
we tackle an episode of a really great television show
called Law and Order Special Victims Unit. We talk about
a true crime that it was based on, and we
interview an actor from the show. But first, there's a
lot going on. Hold on, there's a lot going on. Okay,

(00:54):
do you have something you want to start with, because.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
I well, I'll do a quick louisg update.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
So basically, the federal judge said that they're not going
to set a trial date until like December twenty twenty five.
So this trial on the federal level will not happen
until twenty twenty six.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
And why why would they wait seven months to set.

Speaker 4 (01:14):
A date, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
And but also as of now, the state trial is
supposed to be going first, and she has put Karen
has put an emotion to do the federal trial first
since the death penalties attached, like that's obviously more important,
but I don't know. I think it's just to get
all the motions right, all the evidence. There's like so much,
like I think it's just this might be normal. I've
never followed a case like this intensely before, but what okay,

(01:42):
So basically the most fucked up thing is it was
found out that prosecution was listening to a phone call
with him and his attorney, so they were listening to
a privileged conversation with the attorney.

Speaker 4 (01:53):
This is brought up in court.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Karen in court is like, hey, judge, like, we know
for a fact they were listening to conversations in the court.
The prosecution goes, oh, this is the first we're hearing
of this, Like we had no idea this was happening.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
So then Karen on.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
The Luigi Manjioni defense like website, like on the legal website,
has transcripts from court and puts out statements and basically
she was like, fuck the prosecution for doing that.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
Here's a statement.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
And then the prosecution sent a letter to the judge
and made it public that was like fuck you, this
is bullshit, Like they know for a fact conversations will
be listened to, and it was paralegal who listened. In
the moment she realized it was privileged, she stopped listening.

Speaker 4 (02:38):
We knew immediately. We took like blah blah blah, blah blah.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
And then Karen's response was just like, here's the transcript
to court. So in court they said, we've never heard
of this. And then the statement they released after court,
the prosecution says.

Speaker 4 (02:52):
Actually apparently heard it.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
A paralegal heard it. We stopped it immediately and we
made everyone known. And he needs a designated line for lawyers,
but the inmates should know that all their convos on
like this other line is being listened to. So then
Karen's response is just like four sentences, not even and
it's like my response is the transcript, babe, So which
is it?

Speaker 4 (03:13):
And so that was only like four days ago.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
That's all dated and was released but like on the
on the twenty fifth.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
Was the court date. So like this is getting crazy.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
So yeah, I mean, it's an unfair Everything is like
unfair and fucked. But the fact that they're lying in
court like this and then trying to embarrass her and
he's always condescending. He was like, and if Karen wants
to read up on the law that you can listen
to call like just such a dick.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
But we'll see what ends up happening.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
But yeah, we're not going to get a trial till
twenty twenty six, and then I do hope they let
the federal trial go first. And then the reason I
know that this the federal government has like a ninety
seven percent conviction rate is because a man was harassing
Karen on the street, yelling at But it's like they're
doing it because they want him to set up all there.
They didn't do an indictment because they don't have a case.

(04:05):
I think they know they don't have a case, and
they're just like shocked that he was able to afford
such good defense.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
Like I really don't know what's going on.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
I don't think they're gonna let him go because he's
become the symbol of something. But it's pretty fucked the
prosecutor just lying in court, lying outside of court, and
all she had, like I think that's a mic drop
read the transcript and that's all she needed to say.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
Be like, which is it, bitch?

Speaker 2 (04:29):
So those are the only updates I have at the
moment in terms of Okay, but there was like we
weren't able to see him. You know, he was wearing
a jail uniform like beige is what I've heard. Yeah,
so I don't know what's Oh, and they requested bail.

(04:49):
I doubt that he's gonna get it, but they requested bail.
And I hope his family is rich enough. I hope
they're talking to him. I hope he gets afforded bail.
And I really hope he gets to like house arrest
or something.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Oh my gosh, crazy because he's obviously being treated us fairly.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
If his phone calls are now being listened to, and
then the prosecution can just lan in court. But I
have to read more of the transcript. You know, I
have to live a life like keeping up with his
case is like a full time job. It feels like
on top of everything else, I do so trying my best.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Well, there was all kinds of news like today, basically yesterday,
that that Virginia. I don't know how you say this
last name, Geffrey. Geoffrey was she was this woman who
had I think, testified that she had been on Epstein's

(05:48):
Island and like was had been with Prince Andrew or whatever, like,
and that he trafficked her to Prince Andrew when she
was sixteen and all this stuff. She just took her
own life, and everyone's like.

Speaker 4 (06:02):
Did she.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Like everybody that's involved in this case keeps like ending,
I'm surprised Joanne Gallainne Maxwell is still with us. But
it's really sketchy, Like I was surprised, and this poor woman,
like her fucking most of the majority of her life
has been dealing with this.

Speaker 4 (06:19):
Yeah, it's just dark anyway.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
I don't know if maybe you had any Epstein conspiracy
theory thoughts.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
No, but it's just like, well, in my head, it's
like why wouldn't the government protect her?

Speaker 4 (06:29):
But it's like they're in on it. Yeah, So I don't.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Have anything to say besides I guess I gotta keep
my mouth shut.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Wow she Yeah, I mean she accused her husband of
physical abuse. I think she was as strange from her
children for some reason, like she had a lot going on,
but like it all stems from this, Like it doesn't
make her story not true. And also she had she
had said years ago she was like, they're gonna kill me.
These people are gonna kill me, and now she is
not no longer with us, so it's like reallyughable.

Speaker 4 (07:00):
But let me change the subject.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
Last night I went to go see Real Housewives the Musical.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
It's Real Housewives the musical parody. I don't know. There's
a few different ones.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
This one on Instagram is Real Housewives the Musical, and
Jared is really good friends with this girl, Mary Lou
and she plays Andy Cohen. She plays all these other
characters in it. And then there's like four sorry five
Housewives that are drag queens that are in it, and
it's so funny.

Speaker 4 (07:34):
It's like all references to the show. I was dying.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
The queen's names are Tarabithia, Karantina, Briella, Briello, Diantha, and Tali,
and they're so fucking funny.

Speaker 4 (07:47):
I was dying.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
And then like the whole time, they're doing Watch what
Happens Live like a runner that's just like coming up
on Watch What Happens Live. It's Lisa Barlow and three
time Academy Award winner Meryl Streep for some reason, like
then they'll they just did a few of those, and
then they do an actual Watch What Happens Live, and
the guests were a Kaisha forgot from drag race and

(08:11):
because it was it was also last night's show was
specifically a benefit for cystic fibrosis, and I forgot that
Akasha suffers from with that, so like it was so
you basically could give a venmo of five dollars and
go up and Akaisha would give you like a pickleback shot,
like whiskey and pickle juice.

Speaker 4 (08:27):
So I went up.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
I gave them money because I wanted to give them money.
And then I was like, I was like, just a
little bit of whiskey. I don't really like it very much,
But then that pickle juice is delicious. I mean really,
I wish you could chase other things with that. It's
so good.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
But the other guest was Avvy. Oh my god, Avvy is.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Sutton Stras houseman or whatever anymore, he laughed.

Speaker 4 (08:51):
They parted ways this week.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
I heard the inside information is that he got fired
for being too fabulous or what.

Speaker 4 (08:58):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
But he wouldn't say anything. He wouldn't answer any questions.
They took audience questions, he couldn't answer anything. He was
like being so I'm sure he's like nbaid to the hilts.
So it was like, but why did you come do this?
Like I was, like I was excited though, like to
see Avi. I mean, I was a Dynasty typewriter. It's
a small theater. I was right there with Akasha. And
but anyway, if it comes to your city, like I said,

(09:21):
it's called The Real Housewives unauthorized musical parody, and it
just really cracked me up.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
If you like the Housewives, it was just.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Joke after Joe and Jared was loving it, and he
didn't understand a quarter of the references, Like all the
references were like they want. They went through one time
and they all ordered a drink in a like a
crazy way, and then one of the characters that was
not a housewife was like, these are all real drink
orders from the show, like because they were so bonkers.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
Oh my god. Anyway, I want to go.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
I think it's good for Housewives fans and not fans alike.
But Mary Lou was so good because she was in
and out. Like at one point point she plays a
party attendee who's just too into it, so like the
housewives are fighting and she's just behind like what like
you know how there's always people at the parties in
the background that are like huh like and they're just

(10:13):
there were so many like you could just.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
Tell the girl who wrote it.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
I actually know Rachelle Mees and she like you could
just tell she likes the franchises, like she's you know,
and there's all these funny songs and the different characters.

Speaker 4 (10:29):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
I loved it incredible. Well what I love is love Hotel. Yeah,
I love Hotel's amazing. My like it is just well,
not so much. Shannon's gonna have a hard time. I
could tell Shannon's struggling mentally. But the rest of the
women are like they like dating, they like flirting. Luanne's
sluttie like they're in it. They're fine, they're not waiting.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
They're so give me a little bit of basic info.
Who are the ladies. It's Shannon, Luanne, Giselle, yeah, and
Ashley Darby and Ashley okay. And then the men, I
would say, are all like in their thirties to sixties okay,
and more we're on the older side, I would say,
but they have some young ones for uh, you know,
Ashley to be there. And but the women are like,

(11:13):
I'm not being tied down, like back off or they're like,
why didn't he kiss me?

Speaker 2 (11:17):
What a loser? Just like really flirty women. So it's
really fun. But my favorite so like Shannon's talking to
this man. She goes, oh, do you know Andy Cohen? Like,
what's your relationship with an? He goes who is that?
And she goes, he works at the network. This show
is on, And then it cuts to the man going,
I don't watch TV. I don't know any of these women.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
We're here just I'm just here for love. I don't
even care about your guys status. That's so funny. Yeah,
but I hope they find love. The guys are silly.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
There's like an air of unseeriousness but vulnerability in this
dating show that I think others don't. I don't know
if it's because we already love the women. They do
know how to be on TV. They're like dynamic and
we want them to have fun. Yeah, and it's not
that serious. If they find love or not, I don't know.
But Luanne tells two guys she's like, stay here, boys,
I'll be right back. Don't leave, and then she goes

(12:04):
to flirt with another man and they're both like, she's
not coming back. Let's go, I guess I like that power.
But shant that's the thing. The other three women are
really like that. And then Shannon's a little bit more
sensitive and a little less experienced in the dating world.
I mean, she went from one bad husband to a
pretty terrible relationship, and so when a guy flirts with her,

(12:27):
it spends time, and then she sees him talking to
like Giselle, she kind of flips.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Out right, it's not really the venue for her. It's
not the medium that like she needs for meeting people.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
But I also knew it going in because Portia and
Gizelle were on Watch What Happens Live this week and
it was like a really fun episode as well, Like
I got a lot of scoop about the show from them,
and Joel's doing a really fun job and he sticks
in a real housewife reference every other sentence, every other sentence,
like it is so cool. At one point he goes
and they're hung like bolo, and Luann goes, let's not

(12:58):
oversell these.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
Guys, please, It's just fun. It's like a really cool thing.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Because what I hate about The Bachelor and like Love
is Blind, is the Christian marriage element, the conservatism, and.

Speaker 4 (13:10):
This is just for fun.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, it's like great, I would love for them to
meet love, like have love. But it's also like they're
not desperate and they don't need to leave married to anyone.
Like we're there for them, yeah, like we care about them,
Like I don't care what.

Speaker 4 (13:23):
They're up to.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Is there like is there like are there like little
challenges and stuff like that?

Speaker 4 (13:29):
Is that not yet?

Speaker 5 (13:30):
Not yet?

Speaker 2 (13:31):
They just met and it was basically like they mingled, mingled,
then they each pick one guy to go on a date,
and then that quickly goes back to mingling. Okay, but
the trailers, there's gonna be drama where it's like you
can't talk to other people, and Gazelle going, I'm definitely
gonna be talking to other people, you know. So it's
like there's gonna it's gonna get juicier and you know,

(13:53):
more like fights, I'm sure, But right now, it's just
like they're in Mexico. It's fun and I'm I'm like
happy to have this show leading us into the spring
summer as I don't go outside.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to check it out. I'm going
to check it I'm excited. I'm just like a little
bit behind right now on My Housewives, Well just really
Atlanta right now. I guess nothing else is on right
behind on anything else.

Speaker 4 (14:15):
I caught up on the whole Beverly Hills, but I
think just a.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Lumber Yeah, but yeah, watch I don't really, I'll watch
the house I'll watch the reunion.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
But you know, you'd never know.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
The page content is all over my my pages, Like
I'm really I'm in a page wonderland right now. I'm
seeing so many snippets and snappets.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
No. I loved it because she was on Watch what
Happens and Andy goes, what's your response to shep calling
Giggly Squad that dumb ass talk show, and she goes,
bless his heart. So it's like using his own Southern
language against him, like truly number two on the New
York Times bestseller list. Yeah, it's like, really, it's just

(14:54):
such a moment to try to come after them, like,
of course these guys all look like fucking losers. But
not Bravo. But I've been watching Hacks and I'm loving it.
I get started on my most recent season of Hacks.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
That show does such a good job of like always
taking me to a place I never see coming, Like
it's such a surprising show to me, Like I always
don't know what's going to happen next, and I love it.

Speaker 4 (15:19):
Yeah, I believe.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
I can't believe people that tell me they don't like it.
I'm like, what they're just like, I think they're haters. Yeah,
I think it's people that are haters that are haters. Right,
it's almost always probably feel that are in the business.
It's almost never, you know, it's not like a person
that's like, well, yeah, I work on a farm and
I hate hacks. Like, I don't know. I think people
it's good. It's just a good show. I love it,
but you know, trying to catch up. But you know,

(15:44):
I gotta tell you we just recorded an episode. I
won't say which one or anything, but we were talking
about where Stabler, where we think Stabler would go on
family vacations with his family, if he ever took the
time to do that. And Lisa was saying camping, and
I am taking Rosie camping this week, and we are
camping overnight for the first time, but it's for cub scouts.

(16:04):
Like I'm not I didn't like choose this. It's just
they're doing a trip and I gotta go.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
And then how many chaperones are there or each kid
has to bring a parent.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Each kid's with a parent, and some kids have both
their parents or whatever. But I'm just we're just going,
me and Rosie. I don't think we can. I don't
think the first time I camp with Rosie can be Jared,
who's never camped once, and then also Oscar.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
That's just too much chaos.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
So we're just I literally, as we speak, have a
tent set up in my in my yard because I
set it up to air it out and borrowed a
bunch of shit and i'mhidd into the woods.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
But smart of you to air it out. I wouldn't
have thought. Yeah, but I'll never do that.

Speaker 4 (16:39):
I know how to set up a tent.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
I know how to do this stuff from camp, you know,
But uh, I don't camp a lot. I haven't slept
in a tent outside like that in decades. Because it
be so cute, I think it's gonna be cute. I
think she's gonna be so pumped to just be like
sleeping in a little tent with me, and like she's
gonna run around with all her friends and make s'mores
and shit.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
She's gonna love it.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Oh, this is it, and I'll give everyone a head up.
Hopefully there's tickets still available. But Marishka Hargate is premiering
a documentary about Jane Mansfield during her mother during the
Tribeca Film Festival. There's the Carnegie Hall like premiere, and
then there's an East I have an extra ticket to
one that I'm not going to go to anymore, so

(17:18):
you can DM me as well. But there's three nights
showings and by the time this airs, the tickets have
been on sale honestly for a week. You're probably not
getting a ticket, but know that it's happening, and maybe
there are some left. And I have one, and I
have one to give you for that Saturday showing.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
And it's called My Mom Jane is the name of
this doc. Yeah, I'm excited. Cool, Yeah it is. I'm
so grateful, Lacey listens. Thank you for giving me the
heads up. Oh.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Also, speaking of cute stuff about the camping, So I'm
doing shows in Rhode Islands. Great weekend comedy connection. What
a great place, thinks everyone that came out to see me.
But these both late night shows. These people out of
their minds. I mean, the drunkest, wildest people angry met
like a bachelor party of fifty five year old bald men,
every single one of them bald. I guess they were

(18:08):
all holding each other like a tree, like they were
all like kind of canoodling in the back. I guess,
like I don't know what was going on, but people
were out of their minds. But the Friday night, these
two women who had just met are talking during my
set in the front and I go, you guys, you
gotta stop.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
This is crazy what you're doing, like.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Phones out fully having a full conversation like I'm not there. Yeah,
And when I sit, when I stop them, they go,
it's mom's stuff. It's waving me away, it's mom's stuff.
I go, what are you fucking talking about? You're like,
I'm out in on the conversation. I want you to stop.
We're just moms. Like it was kind of like move
it along, go do your thing. We're doing mom's stuff here.

(18:46):
I mean, they were blacked out, like obviously they needed
a break from their lives, but like, what are you doing?

Speaker 4 (18:52):
And I got so Max, I'm like, what do you mean.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Mom's like, yeah, obviously I said me and stuff because
I was so mad. But and then happened twice where
they're like, we're just moms. Yeah, that's I'm super not shocked.
I mean Rhode Island.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
It's like, I don't really get Rhode Island's identity, but
it feels like a cousin of Massachusetts.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
And I ever, half the crowd was Massachusetts people from
all over.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
They hate Delaware.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
People said Delaware smells, and then everyone started applauding. I
mean they hate Delaware in a way I didn't. I
did not know. I did not know, but and I
got a DM from someone being like, oh, it's a
beautiful day in New England. The crowd's about to be
fairal and they were. They were right, they were, oh.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Well yeah, especially you were there right as probably spring
is springing, where like they've been let out of the
cage after a month of being frozen.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
So the sevens were like polite, and then the nine
thirties were just kind of.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Like I hadfia to mop them off the floor. At
the end, I had to just give up control.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
I was not gonna be in charge of my own show,
and I had to kind of resign to that whoa,
And that's okay too, And.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Then it kind of even in and it's hard to
even do crowd work with people that fucked up.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
Oh well they found a way. You paid?

Speaker 1 (20:05):
Well, you did you You talked to them, I thought
to a lot of people.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
Yeah, yeah, I talk.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
To a lot of about they would They probably were
like whether she wants to do crowd work or not.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
She's talking to me. Oh oh yeah. They weren't interrupt.
They don't care about timing. I mean, but whatever, Like
I said, as long as you give up your uh,
you know, everything you planned on performing and working.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
But yeah, you can have a Were.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
You in Providence, Providence, Rhode Island. Yeah, yeah, it's a
nice town. I like Providence. I like Providence. All right,
why don't we get started with today's episode. We've got
a lot of a lot of episode coming atcha. As always,
you can go to That's messed Up live dot com
for our promo codes, tour dates for Lisa, all kinds

(20:51):
of merch ship like that.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
And you know I'm on the road about it, letting
near you.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
You can even take a trip. Yeah, I was buying
New Orleans tickets.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
I figured it out because I'm a genius, and I
use miles, and I changed the date of a flight.
I'm going to stand extra day whatever flights around trip
main cabin. I'm talking Row twenty eight. Like everything else
is sold out from New York's to New Orleans fifteen
hundred dollars.

Speaker 4 (21:16):
Is it jazz Fest or something. I don't fucking know.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
I didn't even look, but and I waited a little
too close to maybe too Wow, it's still three weeks
ahead of time, and it was fifteen hundred dollars.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
But I'm a genius.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Crazy I ended up being able to book my flight
for twenty two thousand miles. And then I got a
return on Monday because I'm staying there, like paying for
my lodging, you know, And so my return I got
for three hundred something dollars. So I did break the system,
and I am a genius. But that's you know, you
really have to play the game there. Okay, Yeah, we'll
starting the episode.

Speaker 4 (21:48):
First, starting.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Alright, alright, exciting today we are doing the episode Closet,
Season nine, episode sixteen, airing back in two thousand and eight.
The episode starts with some young dude like in you know,
suit sweater, vest ugly shirt running into a boardroom filled
with suits.

Speaker 4 (22:13):
He's got binders. He looks stressed.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
He starts typing on like what looks like a little
touchscreen sidekick, like it's the one. It's like it's a
touch screen, but you turn it sideways. And he's calling
some guy Jeremy on the phone, going why are you late?
You're gonna get your balls busted or whatever, and then
a suit comes up to the young guy and goes,
where's your boss? No bullshit, and he's like, Jeremy, schedule
this whole dog and pony show. And I'm not canceling
because he's sleeping off a bender. It's like, okay, a

(22:37):
lot of information already. Does Jeremy have a drinking problem?
What's happening? And I was wondering where the term dog
and pony show came from because that doesn't sound like
that exciting of a show. I mean, I like dogs
and ponies, but you know, and I guess that was
the main form of entertainment in rural America back in
the day, and that's where the phrase came from. And
now we have love is blind, so you know, anyway,
this guy is pissed. This suit and he wants the

(22:59):
young guy to like, go get Jeremy's ass in here now.
So young guy shows up at Jeremy's apartment and there's
an alarm going off and he's like, like a not
an alarm, like a fire alarm, like a you know,
radio clock alarm, and he's like, what the fuck is
wrong with you?

Speaker 4 (23:13):
Get up? Get He like goes into the room. He
sees like an arm sticking out of the bed.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
He's like, fuck you slept in and he pulls back
the sheet like a magician revealing a trick. And then
we just see his face and he looks shocked, okay,
and then we hard cut to a dead guy in
his pj's with his mouth gaping.

Speaker 4 (23:30):
Open but also weirdly smiling.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
It's so creepy, and Benson goes looks like he died, laughing,
and Warner adds or screaming. It's like wow. Within thirty seconds,
the show is so fucking creepy. And again I write,
I am unclear about the mouth open, eyes open after
death thing, like I don't really understand, but they do
get to it.

Speaker 4 (23:52):
I just wrote it down.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Here earlier because I was like, how come some people
are like eyes wide open, and some people are eyes
shut and mouth open and this and that. But there's
fluids on his body, there's bruising, there's anal tearing, so
there was penetration. And Stabler goes, oh, but getting raped
didn't kill him. Milinda's like, no, he was asphyxiated, cause
there she is our old friend Petiki. Okay, like that

(24:14):
it should be somebody's drag name. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome
to the stage, Petiki. His knuckles are also fucked up,
so maybe he fought back, and the time of death
is like one am. So then Stabler asks what I'm asking,
why does his mouth look like that?

Speaker 4 (24:29):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (24:29):
And Melinda's like, well, he must have had an object
wedged in there before rigger set in, So then whoever
killed him like hung around and then yanked the ballgag
out of his mouth after the body got stiff, Like
that doesn't really make sense, and Melinda's like, well, yeah,
and whoever did that also move the body. So let's
talk to the assistant, Sam Edelstein, who that sounds just

(24:51):
like a comedian we would know, but I'm sort of
shocked he was an assistant based on how he was
talking to the guy like in the messages, you know,
like I didn't. I thought he was maybe just like
a junior associate. But he's like, oh, I'm his assistant.
It's like, can you call your assistant and go where
your boss? And go where are you? You're gonna get
your ball, like your ball, They're gonna bust your balls.
Like I don't know, I didn't get the assistant vibe.

(25:14):
But so they're all like they're all just kind of
like looking at him, and Melinda goes, and he was
really quick to say that he didn't touch the body,
like kind of giving yourself away.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
You're telling on yourself, bro.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
And then our girl, CSU Captain Judas Ciper, friend of
the pod, says she's got something. And there's a jim
bag with an ID tag that says Jeremy Haynes and
that bag was found stuffed down a garbage shoot down
the hallway. And the bag is a real party. It's
got a red leather ball gag. It's got satin restraints
and chaps. Baby, so he is ready for DragCon and
now we know why he was smiling, Stabler says, and

(25:46):
Benson goes, Jeremy had himself a little treasure chest and
a playdate, and then the music swells and the camera
slowly zooms in on Sam the assistant, and it really
really reveals this, like truly heinous shirt he's wearing under
his sweater, vest and jacket, and yeah, that's that.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
I'm a little.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Surprised to see so much kink shaming and season nine, like,
I kind of thought they had progressed past that by then,
but obviously not yet. No, and this is even pre
Rollins and Rollins has been judgment. You know that's true, Judge, Yeah,
that's true. But so now we're at the credits, and
after we come back from credits, they've got Sam in
woodroom lines and they're getting the rundown from him. They're like, okay,

(26:24):
you just found your boss cozy underneath the sheets and
his jammys and he's like, m hm, that's right, and
Stabler flashes him the ballgag and he denies seeing it,
and Stabler tells Benson, why don't you go run it
for Prince? The perp definitely touched it, and then little
Sammy is spooped and he's like wait, wait, wait, okay, okay,
I did it. I freaked out when I saw that
thing in his mouth, I pulled it out. And then
they're like, oh, and did you also like put him

(26:46):
in the pjs And he's like, yeah, he was in
the chaps when I found him. I didn't want his
kink to get into the press, right cause that is
the kind of thing the New York Post likes to
fucking run with. You know, anybody having a little fun
on a Saturday night and then ending up dead. They
love to run with that. And he's like, this isn't
like a gay thing. Jeremy wasn't in the closet. He

(27:07):
was out to Like he basically says, this wasn't a
gay thing, Like I wasn't trying to hide people finding
out that he was gay. Jeremy wasn't in the closet.
He was out to everybody he knew, Like that was
no secret. It was just the kink part I was
trying to hide. And he tells them that he got
into the apartment with his own key, and they're like,
you have your own key. It's like, yeah, he's his assistant.
He house sits when he travels, like most people have that,

(27:27):
Like I used to have access to everything of my
bosses like all of his passwords, like I could have
done anything. Benson and Stabler so awkwardly now are trying
to go this kid into saying that he and Jeremy
were fucking, but I'm not getting that vibe from him
at all. And He's like, no, like we were not lovers,
Like no, you're wrong, and Stabler's like painting a whole picture,
like you guys.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
Were messing around.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
You choked him too hard, you set it up to
be able to find the body. And then Sam's like, well,
I was actually working till two am with fifteen other assistants,
And it's kind of strange to me to not ask
the alibi first, Like a lot of this work of
you guys creating the soul story could have been shot
down just by going, so where were you at one am?

Speaker 4 (28:03):
Oh me at the office. There's fifteen people that can
corroborate it. Great.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Now we don't have to like make up this story
about you too, fucking like and Sam is standing strong
and he's like, yeah, you can check my DNA whatever
you want to do. I didn't kill him, and he's like,
they tell he tells them that Jeremy was single, he
worked so much he did enough time to meet guys,
and he goes, wait, maybe it was one of his kids,
and stablers immediately like he's a dad, and then it's like, no,

(28:28):
not his own kids. He volunteered at a shelter for
homeless gay teens last week. One of them beat him
up so bad he had to miss work. Oh will Yeah,
So now we're at William's house and the guy running
the shelter is like, no way. The kids love Jeremy.
They're good kids, he said, and their parents toss them
out just because they're gay and lives like and if
we run their rap sheets, they're gonna be squeaky clean.

(28:49):
It's again, it's like Live A't season nine. You don't understand,
like how like rap sheets so actually matter? Yeah, and
how kids get like fully thrown onto a bus from
Iowa come to a city with nothing, like what do
they you know? And he's like, I'm dealing with drugs,
petty theft, sex for survival. They all got records, but
they're not criminals. And I love that. I'm like put

(29:09):
that on a shirt. They all got records, but they're
not criminals. They're just kids, you know, just they just
want to know about the one who had beef with Jeremy,
and the guy's like, wow, he's not a murderer. He's
just a confused kid. His name is Freddy Ramirez, but
he's not here. He works at a gym in Hell's Kitchen.
When they get to the gym, they see a lady
bending over showing off her hot ass, and when she
pops up to say she's the manager, we recognize it

(29:31):
is the icon Laverne Cox in one of her first
acting roles ever. She of course went on to star
in Oranges and New Black and Promising Young Women and
inventing Anna, which I never watched but I wanted to.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
She's in tons of stuff.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
She's like a very famous actor now and transactivist. And
she clocks Maloney and gives him a little per She
likes what she sees. She's like, I'm canvas. And then
they ask about Freddy and she's like, what did that
little devil do?

Speaker 4 (29:58):
Now?

Speaker 1 (29:58):
She thinks he has sticky fingers and steal shit from
the lockers, and she'd fire him, but the members love
him right, and she thinks he must have gone into
a fight because he's got a big old bruise and
this kid has a temper. So Sabler goes to find
Freddy in the locker room, and he's doing exactly what
she's worried that he's doing.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
She's bent over rooting through lockers.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Like Sabler busts in, and like it's like you might
just say, hey, you're not on locker room duty anymore,
Like you just have to like mop the bathroom. I
don't really know, but this kid is in there going
on a little shopping spree.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
How I feel with my laundry girl, she is losing
my items. I am getting other people's sucks, but I
keep on going.

Speaker 4 (30:36):
The customer's lover, the customer's lover.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
So Stabler, you know, goes hey, Freddy or whatever, and
then of course the kid runs.

Speaker 4 (30:44):
There's a chase, but it's short. Stabler grabs him.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
And this guy playing Freddy is named David del Rio,
and he he had been in like a few things,
but nothing I'd really heard of. But then he it
seems like he has just hit his big break because
he is a regular on the New mattlock Seas with
Kathy Bates, so kludos to him, which people love, and
his people are watching it.

Speaker 4 (31:05):
I don't know. They bring him into interrogation. He's being kg.
He hates the cops.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
He tells them, oh, is that the movie with my friends?
And Stabler's like, oh, what what's up with the massive
bruise on your face? He truly has a huge bruise,
like on his whole cheek, and he admits he got
into a fight with Jeremy, and he goes, bitch, thought
he was tough, and then he looks shook though when
Stabler mentions that Jeremy was killed, like he did not know,
and he's like, no, no, no, no, no no. This guy

(31:29):
box to stay in shape, and I told him you
ain't fought until you use your bare knuckles. So he's
saying that these two fought for exercise purposes, like not
in any anger. And he hasn't seen Jeremy in a
few days. And Benson is on the other side of
the glass watching when Melinda comes in with some interesting info.
The blood found in the apartment is a match for Freddy.
The semen sample found on Jeremy was mixed, probably his

(31:53):
own Semen mixed with the purpse Semen, and she'll test
it and let them know if it matches for Freddy.
So now they're like, Freddie, what's up dog? Like, why
was your blood in this dude's apartment? And he says,
Saturday night, I was at Jeremy's place. I was hanging
with him watching the Knicks because he has a sick
plasma TV.

Speaker 4 (32:09):
And then I got like a raging nosebleed.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
And Stabler's like, sure you did, jan And then he
says he got home before twelve and the house has
a midnight curfew, so he's like, I signed in, you
can check.

Speaker 4 (32:20):
And Stabler's like, what's up with you too?

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Like you and Jeremy something going on there, and Freddy's like,
I tried, but Jeremy shot me down. He said I
was too young. So I do stand A man who
you know, keeps it, keeps age in mind. Freddie also
says that Jeremy told him he was serious about someone.
He said the guy traveled all the time, but that
they've been together for a few years. And Benson's like, oh,

(32:43):
that's funny. Nobody else knows about this dude, and Freddie goes, well,
that guy is famous and in the closet and he's
psycho about his privacy, so that's why no one's talking
about him. So now Stabler and Benson are talking and
they're they're like, so Jeremy and closet Boy are playing
Broke Mountain. I mean they love to get in a
current reference. Things get rough and Jeremy gets killed. Closet

(33:07):
Boy splits because he can't be found in his dead
gay lover's apartment. So then Chester Lake pipes up. We
can't forget at season nine, we are going to get
a little sprinkling of Lake in here. And he says,
Freddy's alibi checks out and he's on camera out the
shelter at eleven forty five, never leaving. Also, Sam, the
assistant is in the clear. All the assistants he was
with were like, you know, corroborated his alibi. So now

(33:29):
we've got to find closet Guy as they're calling him,
and Stabler goes, would you miss your boyfriend's funeral? And
Live goes, yeah, if I was famous and in the closet,
how am I going to show up crying at a
gay man's grave? And then Stabler goes, make sure no
one else is there to see you. So now cut
to them checking out footage from a polecam, which Munch
goes a CoP's best friend polecam and it's like an

(33:52):
interesting take from the Big brother is watching you member
of the squad for him to be like sweet CCTV
love it, Like he seems like he'd be against that.
But a guy jumps the cemetery fence at three am.
It's pretty dark, they can't see his face. It looks
like he's praying, and then Stabler goes, holy crap, rewind,
so they stop. They do one of these impossible tech

(34:12):
things they do on SVU where they blow it up
and nothing about the image changes really or degrades at all,
and no wonder he's in the closet. That's Lincoln Haver,
the best quarterback in pro football. And Stabler looks like
he doesn't know up from down. He literally cannot believe
that a gay pro football player exists in the world.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Well, you know what else, I'm thinking, So this motherfucker
is working what fifteen hours a day Monday through Friday,
and then during football season, I get I bet he's
watching all day Sunday.

Speaker 4 (34:41):
Yeah, that's what you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Maybe I'm selling him short, but I'm like, are you
fucking kidding me?

Speaker 4 (34:48):
No, You're he's watching the yes.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
In the spring watch he's watching all this, but he's
watching the Knicks in the winter, he's watching it all.
I'm sorry, Calf, Yeah, yeah, sorry, Calf. Top of ac two.
Finn and Lake are just two broads gossiping. They're like
reading a magazine and they're like, Lincoln Haver is gay.
I thought he was dating Natasha Gorski, that hot supermodel.

(35:12):
And Jeremy must have hated seeing his man all over
the rags with a gal pal, right, Stabler's like, you
can't blame him for having a beard. He'd lose his
career if he came out, and Lake's like, well, a
bunch of players have come out, Dave Kope, Roy Simmons,
Asara Tuola. And then he asked, Finn, are you related
to the last guy? And Finn's like, it's Tootuola, you dumbass,

(35:32):
Like that's so insane. It's like asking me if I'm
related to someone with the last name Clark. It's kind
of close, it's not the same last name, so we're
not related. And then he points out something very important.
All of those guys came out after they retired. At
that point, there had not been an openly gay player
on the field, even Michael sam who I always think
of as the first openly gay player drafted into the NFL.

(35:55):
He was drafted by the Saint Louis Rams in twenty fourteen,
but he never played in a regular.

Speaker 4 (35:58):
Season game because because he was gay.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Who's to say, but Carl Nasib who came out in
June of twenty twenty one, became the first active NFL
player four years ago, and he played for the Cleveland Browns,
the Tampa Bay back in the years, and the Las
Vegas Raiders, and he retired in twenty twenty three after
seven seasons. So he played a couple seasons as an
ougay man. I don't actually know if Moore have followed

(36:22):
his in his path, like football seems one of the
more agro sports to come out in, but they're like okay,
So Lincoln was not in the mood to be a
trailblazer or lose the bag. Finn points out that he
just signed a three year contract for forty million dollars
and he's a spokesperson for Power Drink, which is a
funny little copyright thing. Lives like they can't fire him

(36:44):
for being gay. He could sue and Stabler's like, no, girl,
these contracts have morals clauses. They can drop him if
he damages the product's reputation. And then Finn goes, yeah,
like when folks start calling power Drink Pansy Drink, and
I'm like, come on, power Twink was right there. Why
would you not say power Twink? Like so, anyway, I
don't know, hire me to wait for the show live.

(37:05):
Does not get why it's a big deal for a
football player to be gay, Like she's truly not understanding
in two thousand and eight, how this is not still
like happening, And Stabler's like, Lincoln har is my kid's hero,
Like his posters are all over all these kids' walls.

Speaker 4 (37:17):
So it's like, okay, let's go talk to Dicky Stabler's hero.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
So now they're at a practice field in the Bronx
where someone is literally yelling Blue twenty two, which I
like associate with ace Ventura, Like I just I feel
like Blue twenty two, like that feels like the only
football play I would ever know in a million years,
and someone's actually yelling it in the show, you know
what I mean. It's like somebody going hut hut hike,
like it's so, it was just funny to me, and

(37:40):
then I but I guess it's some kind of legit play.
I googled it, but I couldn't understand it. Players are
hitting on Benson as she walks on to the field, going,
I got a cramp. You want to rub my cramp
out like shit like that? And I wouldn't mind Benson
having like a one night er with a pro football player.

Speaker 4 (37:57):
Let's let her have some fun.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
They approach Lincoln and he is played by the actor
Bailey Chase.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
He's very handsome and he.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Says, we're here to talk to you about Jeremy Haynes
and he's like, oh yeah, he's my business manager. And
they're like, well, we know he managed your penis as well,
and he's like, nah, I gotta go, and he starts
to walk away, and then they show him the photo
that they captured somehow in the dark of him visiting
a grave and he's like, okay, well, I cannot talk
to you here. So they bring him to the warm
hospitality of cement room bars and he's explaining that should

(38:30):
at least be in woodblind that's crazy, I know, yeah,
Like he hasn't done anything yet I don't know. I
would think that NFL. You would also just like as
a celebrity, you'd first get wood room blinds, you know.
And he's like, listen, i'd been in a photo shoot
in Miami, and that's why I went to the grave
in the night.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
Like I didn't. I couldn't get back in time for
the funeral.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Whatever that look going at three am is what fit
my schedule is basically what he's saying. And Benson is like, Babe,
we're getting a court order for your DNA and he's like,
I would never hurt Jeremy. We were friends, Stablers like
you guys were lovers, like we know, and he says yeah,
he basically drops it. He's like, yeah, we were going
to go public, but it's not like, you know, we
can just come out with it like and Stablers like yeah,

(39:12):
because you'd be kicked out of football. And Lincoln's like,
I've been playing the game since I was six. The
game is my life. If I had to choose, though,
I would choose Jeremy. And the night he was murdered,
where was Lincoln? And he goes with Jeremy. I had
dinner with Jeremy and my agent and Natasha, and he goes.
They go, you had a date with your boyfriend and
your girlfriend. That's ballsy, and they're like, well, my agent

(39:33):
hooked me up with her, and Jeremy was kind of
tired of all the games. Lincoln wanted to just do
one more season. He's like, I just wanted one more
shot at a championship ring. And after dinner, Natasha took
him for a few drinks at some hot new club.
He doesn't remember which one because he was wasted, and
all he knows is that he went home with Natasha.
Cut to Natasha, okay, and she's like, yeah, I wish

(39:53):
he hadn't come home with me. That night sucked and
he never spends the night. She goes, Link's a hit
and run kind of guy, Team Curfew, Early Flight, et cetera.
He's always making something up. And she's like, my publicists
pushed him on me. I don't know I'd be dating
his agent and teammates and business manager. If he'd rather
screw around with boys, that's fine with me. And then
Benson goes, so you knew about him and Jeremy, and

(40:16):
Natasha's like, knew what? And uh oh, Benson just made
a booboo. Natasha did not know, and then.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
She should have lied faster, like I'm sorry, Benson, I'm
like so disappointed at her that she couldn't, like come.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
Up with a fast lie.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
You guys are undercover, pretending to be Russian cleaning ladies,
pretending to be people adopting babies. You can't like come
up with a quick lie, like or get yourself out
of it really fast, like come on.

Speaker 4 (40:42):
Yeah, I was really upset. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
So this is a big plot point of the episode
that Benson basically lets this shit slip and Natasha's like
they were not fucking and then she's like, oh my god,
she's just finding this out. Thank you Benson force billing,
and Natasha's like that explains everything. There's nothing wrong with
these girls, referring to her tits just girls.

Speaker 4 (41:08):
She runs over to her bag and grabs her phone.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
She calls a friend named Shanad, does not wait for
it to ring, She just picks it up and goes
Shanade and she's about to blab, and Stabler grabs her
phone and is like, don't ruin Dickie's hero, Like, don't
you know, please, don't ruin Dickie's hero. You know, And
Natasha is pissed. She's like, he used me, and she
calls him you.

Speaker 4 (41:29):
Know him too, that was the only reason you were
with him is to use him.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
If it's a publicist connected relationship, then you're both it's
a mutual user, and you should assume he's gay. Yeah, yeah,
And she's like, she calls him a three letter slur
for a gay man. And then Benson tries to go
her to chill and she's freaking out that maybe he
gave her aids like she does not seem like a

(41:55):
very evolved person and lives like you can get that
from anyone.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
Actually, did you two use a condom?

Speaker 1 (42:00):
And then she's like, get out of here, and she
finishes the condom with her friend, who I guess has
been on hold this whole time, called the.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Condom it's been it was really funny. We're leaving it in.
What did I call it a condom? You said, Oh,
she gets back on the condom.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, she hops back on the condom.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
No, I was reading. I get back on the condom.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
So she finishes her convo pardon me, with her friend
who's been on hold the whole time, and she's like Shanade,
he's a homo.

Speaker 4 (42:31):
Link is an ass bands.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
I love that They were like, what should we call
her Shanade? Like it's also such a wild name. Yeah, yeah, completely.
She's telling Shanaid that Link is a homo. She goes,
Link is an ass Bandit can you believe it?

Speaker 1 (42:44):
It's like wild, like the word she's using, and she
tells them she goes right before they leave, she goes
check in with Gary Leslie, his agent.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
My ex boyfriend is going to need a new job.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
And then cut to them talking to Gary Leslie and
now he is played by Rick Hoffman, who I recognize
as one of the main dudes from Suits. I think
that's this guy's claim to fame is that he's like
the guy from Suits, right.

Speaker 4 (43:06):
Oh, I know him. He's a commercial actor. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
Yeah, he's a great actor, this guy. Oh really yeah,
I think he's very good. And he talks about well,
Natasha was on a rampage, but I shut her up
and he promised her the cover of the swimsuit is
shoe and got her friend Shanade on the view. Who
is Shanade? We're talking about Shanade so much, like that's
the thing. You're right, they picked Shanade Like if you

(43:30):
would picked the name like Lindsay, we would have been like,
oh is she friends with Lindsay Lohan?

Speaker 4 (43:34):
Like it could be vague, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (43:36):
But instead it's like shanade O Connor's the only famous one,
So what are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (43:40):
But also, like I understand the view that's like a
quick favor, Like you know it's just promo stuff, but
you're telling me you could just favor your way into
the cover of Sports Illustrated. That must be like, like
I understand if it's to be in the Sports Illustrated, Like, oh,
we'll give you this feature. I have this client, can
you do this for me? Like they all know each other,

(44:01):
but the cover just.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
But this guy reps so many he probably reps so
many sports guys that he's like, get her on the cover.
I'll give you exclusives after the super Bowl with my guys,
all these got you know what I mean, Like maybe
it was that kind of deal. I just think it's
what he made with Sports Illustrated.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
I know. I just think it's such a big deal.
And there's usually like an intention behind the cover model
and like they're trying to tell a story, you know,
not to get and not to make bring more depth
into something that might not have it. But I just
am like any favorite, they must have some sort of
integrity or like, yeah, I guess we won't have Heidi Clume.

(44:40):
Sure we'll take this bitch like what yeah, and no offense.
She doesn't look like a sport like she doesn't. That's
not the vibe I even got from her.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
I didn't get the sexiest model to ever live that
like met will appeal to men and women and sell
these magazines. I was like, okay, so she's like an
actress on the CW. Like that's what I got, which
you have to be very hot to do too. No,
no knocking this woman, but like Sports insane, it's like Padma.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
So the cover of the Sports Illustrated magazine in two
thousand and eight, the year that this episode came out,
is that right, was it eight?

Speaker 4 (45:18):
Two thousand and eight? Okay?

Speaker 1 (45:21):
The cover of the swim Sports Illustrated Swimsuit is she
from two thousand and eight?

Speaker 4 (45:24):
Is Marissa Miller?

Speaker 3 (45:26):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (45:26):
Yeah, I mean this is what I mean. Like she
was so fucking famous.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
Yeah, at the time I saw her face fucking everywhere
that this bitch is not her.

Speaker 4 (45:38):
I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
So anyway, the lawyer, Gary Leslie is like, are you
sure this isn't some kind of mix up, and they're like, no,
Lincoln told us he was gay, and Gary's like, I
can't believe it. The guy's a chick magnet. I get
laid just being out with him. And he wants to
know how Natasha found out, and Benson confesses like, well,
I kind of made an oopsie, like I just you know,
let it slip. And they asked if he thinks Lincoln

(46:03):
is capable of murder, and he's like, no way, he's
a teddy bear off the field.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
He doesn't have it in and to kill.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
So now we're at Melinda's house and she's got the
lowdown on the jizz as usual, Lincoln Semen was on
Jeremy's carpet and on Jeremy and this carpet Semen could
be old, but the Jeremy fluids were fresh, and they
want to know if it's possible that he may be
choked on the ballgag during sex, and Melinda's like, that's
what the killer wanted you to think. But she thinks

(46:28):
the ballgag was inserted post mortem. This guy's Jeremy's hyoid
bone was broken, which means he was strangled with something
and it was definitely something cylindrical and it left a
diamond pattern on like under his skin. So like a bar,
a dumbbell bar is what they're narrowing the weapon down
to be. And Lincoln says that his set was short.

(46:49):
One bar in his house. That's what CSU said, So
they think Lincoln must have taken the bar with him
after he killed him, and that's enough for a search
warrant of his house. Now they're at Har's apartment building
trying to get this nerd at the front desk to
let them in, and then suddenly they're smashing glass. We
hear try running to daddy F word slur and we
see Lincoln outside the building getting his ass beat by

(47:11):
these guys and then a bunch of guys run away.
Stablor chases them, but he's too slow, and Live calls
a bus for Lincoln and goes his secrets out in
the hospital. Now, Benson is telling Lincoln like wow, like
your skull is fractured, and like do you remember anything.
He's like, well, I was walking home I hurt a
car and then I heard a guy yell the F word,
and then something hit his head. He tried fighting them,

(47:34):
but there was too many of them. He couldn't get
a look at any of their faces, and then he
kind of passes out. While he's talking to Benson, Sailor
gets a call from Finn saying there was no weapon
found at Lincoln's house. Saylor says, well, we should hand
off the gay bashing Tobias crimes and then we can
work the homicide. And then Gary Leslie, the agent, walks
in right as they're walking out, and sarcastically goes, oh, hey,

(47:54):
good job, detectives, and he's like, I'm filing charges against
you both individually and against NYP for outing Link and
getting him attacked. Hours later, apparently someone linked this entire
thing to a shock jock named Sportsman Larry, who told
five million listeners that Link is a big flaming F word.
They are using the F word so much in this episode,

(48:17):
and whenever I'm saying word, they're using the full word.

Speaker 4 (48:19):
Just keep that in mind.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
And Gary thinks the cops leaked it, and suddenly there's
beeps and boops and Lincoln is crashing and everyone gets
kicked out of the room. In the next scene, Benson
and Stable are listening to Sportsman Larry on the radio
talking about sissy's in sports and he sounds like a
real asshole, and he his voice by the late great
Richard Lewis. He does not appear on the episode, but

(48:41):
his voice is Sportsman Larry, and I think that's kind
of funny Rip also known as like Larry David's Besty
from Curb. He's joking about how football is America's game
and there's no place for gays in the game. He
says Lincoln Haver should have been a cheerleader if he
wants to be back in the game. It's really a
lot of a regard talk. And back in the precinct,

(49:03):
Dad's mad. Craigan is like what did you two do?
They're like, now, what you think? And he's like, well
tell that to the gay rights group picketing one PP
and Stabler's like, well, I mean, at least there's somebody
from the other side picketing, because so far it's just
been hate attacks and Sportsman Larry and Stabler's like, yeah,
we didn't talk to Sportsman Larry, Like we both honestly

(49:24):
worked here for a decade. Did you think we went
to sportsman Larry for a leak? And it's stable. I'm like,
Stabler is Catholic, but I don't see him spilling to
a homophobic shock jock, Like that's not what I really
see as his mo. But the bad news keeps coming.
IAB is now investigating Benson and Stabler about this, and
Lincoln haveaer is in a coma live you're first up
to talk to IAB. So now she's chatting with her

(49:46):
future boyfriend and friend of the pod, Bobby Burke aka
Ed Tucker, And in the past five days she's called
this one number twelve times. He points out it's the
number for Kurt Moss, a guy who works at The Ledger.
And the if you'll remember, as we always talk about,
is basically their cover for The New York Post, which
is a rag. I mean, like there's some factual news

(50:08):
in it. I guess it's where page six is, but
it's a lot of sensational, really really rude headlines and
stuff like that. He doesn't get. But I think they
also hate Trump, and they do a lot. They try
to make Trump look stupid all the time, which I
kind of like, so, I don't know there. My sister
dated a guy who exclusively read the New York Post,
and I was like, he's dumb, you know what I mean,
if that's like the one paper that you're buying, Uh,

(50:30):
yeah you can't.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
Yeah, that's not her husband. Don't worry. She got out. No,
I know, she's an educator. I know, I know. She
was like, well, I don't really read any newspapers.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
I'm like, yeah, you're getting news from other places, but
to just pick up the New York Post and read
it every day is kind of insane. So Tucker doesn't
understand why she's calling a newspaper editor at ten pm,
and Benson is like, well, it had nothing to do
with Lincoln Haber, and Tucker is not buying it. He
thinks she tipped off Moss, and Benson is denying it,
saying the gossip columnist must have listened to sportsman Larry.

(51:01):
But Tucker's got news. The paper went to press before
the Larry broadcasts, and Tucker's yeah, babah. So Tucker's like, so,
why did you call Moss? And Benson finally gives up.
She's like, we've been dating, and he's like who knows
about this? And she's like nobody, and Tucker goes, so
you're creating this fictional booty call to save your own ass.
I mean, he really did used to be such a

(51:21):
dick back in the day. Okay, Tucker, if she was
leaking a story, I hardly think twelve phone calls would
be necessary, Like doesn't twelve phone calls feel more inconducive
to dating than like one more detail and calling twelve times.
So she goes, he's my boyfriend and Tucker goes, yeah,
and you're his source. So Benson comes storming into the

(51:43):
pen at the precinct and he's like, well, Tucker took
my badge and shield and they're like why he and
she goes ask him and Tucker goes, she's suspended with
pay while we investigate, and Stabler goes, you're a son
of a bitch, and Tucker goes, your partner has been
sleeping with an editor at the Ledger, Like I just wrote,
like okay, live, it's okay to fuck a journalist, but

(52:04):
the Ledguer is trash, Like come on, girl, respect yourself,
Like you could fuck someone at the New Yorker, Like
you really could, like you're Olivia Benson. You're gorgeous, you're talented,
you're smart. You don't need to be fucking Ledger reporters.
And Stabler you can tell his eyes are a little shocked.
He does not believe it. He's like, she's aiding someone
I don't know about it. She's dating a guy from
the Ledger, Like.

Speaker 4 (52:22):
What the fuck?

Speaker 1 (52:23):
And Tucker's like, oh, I guess you don't know her
that well. And Stabler says, I know she'd never torpedo
a case. And Tucker's like, well, sorry, but you didn't
even know she was screwing the paper boy, so I
guess you just don't know where that well. And this
whole conversation is an hr nightmare, like I can't believe
that actually IAB is involved in this conversation using the
phrase like screwing the paper boy. Craigan asked Stabler where

(52:43):
he's going, and Stabler's like, you know where I'm going.
So now we're at the office of the New York Ledger.
Stabler shows up in the office of Kurt Moss and
look who it is. It's Bill Pullman, star of Independence
Day While you were sleeping and the Sinner on USA
and a million other movies. Like, I mean, he's a
true nineties movie star.

Speaker 4 (53:04):
I would say, like he was in so much stuff.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
I'm glad you said while you were sleeping that's one
of Yeah, that's a Trager family favorite.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
And is the guy in the Koma not Daddy Dodds.
Oh my god, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
So Daddy Dodds is in the coma of Sandra Bullock
falls in Love with Bill Pullman worth watching if you
haven't seen it.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Great, great fos and the Parents. It's a lot of
old actors that are funny.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
It's like, good, yeah, and I love Sandra Bullock and
kind of anything, so I think it's fun. And he's like, oh,
you must be Elliott. Olivia has a picture of you
in her living room, so okay, this is not a leak.
They are dating. He's been the living room, he's seen
the photo. She has a frame photo of her her
and Elliot.

Speaker 4 (53:43):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (53:45):
Staylor does not want any of this small talk.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
He's like, Benson's been suspended because they think she leaked
the Lincoln Haber story to you, and Stabler goes, who
gave you the story? And he's like, come on, you
know I would die for my sources and like, I'm
not gonna make my columnists that wrote this name there's sorry,
And he's like, so you're just gonna like throw Live
under the bus, and Moss is like, you two have
worked together for a long time. There must be a

(54:07):
reason she didn't tell you about me, and Stabler's like,
her life is her business. I'm here to save her job,
and you need to tell IAB that Live isn't the leak.
And then Benson shows up and she's confused, like why
are you here, Stabler and she goes, well, I'm trying
to get your boyfriend to give you a hand. And
she goes, I don't need help from either of you,
and Moss is like, I think you do. I can

(54:28):
sign an an affidavit saying that you're not the source,
and Lives like it's not gonna be enough.

Speaker 4 (54:33):
They need a warm body.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
They want someone to pin this on, and Stabler's like,
I'm sure you've got some shit on the NYPD. Just
remind IAB to stay on your good side. So Stabler's like,
for my girl, do whatever you can literally hold blackmail
the NYPD as much as you want. Just get Live
her shield back Moss is like, I'll talk to them,
and then Stabler goes nice meeting you and walks out.

Speaker 4 (54:54):
There's tension.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
There's tension, and Moss asks live, why didn't you tell
me you were in trouble. She's like, I can handle it,
and he's like, yeah, you like you don't let anyone in,
Like you're not letting me in. And she goes, this
isn't about us, and he goes, if you say so,
and then he goes like, why won't you move in
with me? It's a perfect time to talk about it,
Like she's just been suspended at work, and he's like,

(55:16):
what's up with the moving in? And she sighs and
she goes, I gotta go, and he goes, I'll call
iab and then she whispers thanks.

Speaker 4 (55:23):
He grabs her.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
They have a moment they do like a dry side
lip kiss that's pretty unsexy, like they're not like there's
a cute vibe between them. But then the kiss is
like it's very dry, it's not full mouth on mouth,
it's closed mouth and to the side. So and that's it.
That's all we get of Bill Pullman in SVU history.
He agreed to do one scene and that's it. But

(55:47):
in the next scene, liv is walking into the precinct
to tell Stabler, hey, it worked, I'm unsuspended, and she
apologizes to Stabler for not telling him about Moss and
he's like, hey, I'm glad. I'm just glad you have someone,
and but she he goes, I mean you could have
said something, and she goes, I just wasn't ready, and
then Craigan walks in and boom, Lincoln is out of

(56:07):
his coma and one PP wants.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
His ass locked up.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Stabler's like, yesterday he was a victim and we're getting grilled,
and Craigan says, yeah, and today the media is all
over it and the BRAS doesn't want him geting special
treatment for being gay or a football player. I don't
think he was really getting special treatment for being gay
at that time. At the hospital, they're talking to Lincoln
all those years worried about my future, that if people
found out I was gay, it would wreck my life

(56:30):
and lives like, I'm so sorry I outed you, like
she apologizes, and he says it was bound to happen,
and he leads on Jeremy's killer and they're like, ooh, awkward,
we are here to arrest you, sir. A Stabler starts
to mirandize him and he's like huh so back in
cement room bars, Lincoln is like, I told you I
was with Natasha that night, and they're like, yeah, but

(56:53):
she kicked you out because you couldn't get it up.
And then he's like, they're like, so you probably went
to Jeremi's for a little TLC. We found your DNA
on his box, and he's like, I do remember going
to his apartment, but it's a blur, like I was drunk.
And Stabler's like breathing down Lincoln's neck like he is
whispering his questions. It's like a lot like this is

(57:13):
very like gay coated, just the way he's like talking
to this hot gay football player, and Stabler's just like, yeah,
then things got a little bit crazy, huh and maybe
you woke up and like yeah, so he's like, so
you woke up Jeremy, he smelled Natasha's perfume. They you
fought Jeremy died and Lincoln's like, oh fuck, what did
I do? And they're like you try to cover it up,

(57:35):
make it look like an accident, and Lincoln's like, I
didn't want to hurt him.

Speaker 4 (57:38):
I loved him.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
So now we're in court and Lincoln is being arraigned
for murder in the second degree and his lawyer is
played by Rebecca balth this friend of the pod, Beverly DiAngelo.
She enters a lot of people we've had on the
podcast in this episode. It's very exciting. She enters a
plea of mine and I also forget about everyone.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
So while watching this, I was like, damn, we talked
to Beverly DeAngelo.

Speaker 4 (58:01):
What the fuck?

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's crazy and Bobby Burke like all these
people in this episode we've chat even Judith ciper our
CSU Captain and Casey wants two million for bail and
the lawyer is like, he's he's rich, but not a
flight risk.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
For God's sake. He just woke up from a coma.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
And the judge says, you have my sympathy and I'll
have your passport.

Speaker 4 (58:23):
Bail is one million. I like that.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
Casey is chasing Rebecca, being like, girl, we've got a
rock solid case. You've got nothing, and Rebecca's like, Lincoln
doesn't even know what happened, he's confused, and she's like, oh,
he confused murder with a little slap and tickle. That's
what Casey says, and Rebecca goes, oh, go for it, Casey,
make fun of a guy with a brain injury. The
jury's gonna love that, and Casey's like, no, jury is
buying what you're selling.

Speaker 4 (58:46):
And then she hands a.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Motion to Casey and Casey goes, football made him do it.
That's almost as good as the Twinkie defense, which they've
said in other episodes. We love talking about the twinkie defense.
Rebecca says, Nope, it's even better. Now they're in judge's
chambers and Rebecca arguing that Lincoln has had eight concussions
and repeated head trauma that has irreparably damaged his brain.
Casey's like, well, other athletes have head trauma and don't

(59:09):
commit murder. And it's like, yeah, Casey, but a lot
of them, you know, like not all, but a good
healthy portion of them commit crimes. And she says Lincoln
has dementia and they're like, definitively, and she goes, well,
definitively only on autopsy, which is unfortunately the bad part
about CT.

Speaker 4 (59:26):
You can't find out until you slice someone's brain open.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Really. Yeah, that's like they don't know anybody has like
CTE or like that kind of dementia, like I think
until they fully cut their brains open in autopsy.

Speaker 4 (59:39):
I didn't know that. Yeah. So then it's like, then
you can't really sue the NFL because you're dead.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
But he the judge is like okay, and then she's like, well,
the detectives ignored his head trauma when they questioned him,
and Casey's like, there's no proof he's impaired, and the
judge goes, well, there's no proof he isn't, so have
your guy examine him. Obviously, we're at the neuropsych lab.
I don't think I've ever noticed that card before.

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
What's that? It's just Huang.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
It's it's Huang's little lab of like different connected dots,
like neurological tests that he puts people through.

Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
So Huang is questioning Lincoln about his headaches, which he
says sometimes he has them every day. It's like his
head is in a vice. It feels like he's getting
stabbed in the eye. He tells him to memorize the
words house, pencil, and green. Memorize those, and then he
asks him a bunch of personal questions and he runs
all these cognitive tests, like while Lincoln's like connecting like
different like blue balls to different things or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
All I'm remembering are like these little blue circles connected
by lines that he's doing in one of his cognitive tests.
And he asks him a question and then he goes,
what are the three words? And Lincoln goes, pencil boat
And he can't even guess the third word. Okay, so
it was house, pencil green, it was not boat, So
he only got one word. And then he goes, that's crazy.
Why can't I remember that? And you know that this

(01:01:01):
makes me think of being a stoner.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
And you know Marsha's also the stoner like me, and
I decided after this weekend that I can't hang out
with her anymore. We make the same mistakes. It's like
it was crazy. And so we're like at my apartment,
I'm grabbing a raincoat. We know it's gonna rain. We're
headed to a protest, like we know it, we're raincoat,
We're gonna do all this stuff. We both didn't bring
an umbrella. Discussing the rain for twenty minutes as I

(01:01:28):
like get my raincoat, everything going.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
We're like getting port no umbrella, we didn't bring one.
Umbrellas are by the door.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
She's like which way? Like we were both just like
out of control. We walked on the wrong train platform
and then we missed the train, and I go, god,
we cannot go anywhere together.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Me Julia as a chaperone. If the two of you
are going to be there, it's got to be Julia
as a chap We got on the wrong platform, Like,
we just kept fucking up the wrong platform.

Speaker 4 (01:01:54):
You've been living in New York.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Result, we ran because we saw the train arrive, and
so we like ran and I go, this is fucking downtown.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
And then we had a run up and we missed it.
Oh my god, hilarious. It was really it was just silly.
It was silly. I was like, we're we should not
be allowed out together.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
A feminist cheech and Chong perhaps pitch it im a.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Text savior text figure because we both have currently hair too.

Speaker 4 (01:02:21):
That's funny.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
So Lincoln is basically like, fuck why I can't remember anything?

Speaker 4 (01:02:27):
And then Huang Go's reporting back to the Gang.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Huang's like, Okay, his immediate and long term memory are fine,
but short term is impaired, not from the beating. He
has lesions on his brain that he shows them from
like an MRI, and there's evidence he.

Speaker 4 (01:02:41):
Has a seizure disorder.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
But his last concussion was last year, because Stabler remembers
exactly when he got clotheslined last and it was like
a game against Denver in the previous September. And he's like, well,
he couldn't have had a seizure of the night of
the murder because the seizures usually occur within forty eight
hours of the injury, so the brain damage defense is out,
and he's like, no, repeated head drama can cause memory loss, depression,

(01:03:04):
and Alzheimer's like dementia, and it's very common in boxers, hockey,
and football players. Like when I was growing up, my
dad told my brothers none of them could play football,
none of them were allowed to play football. I'm okay
with that, Like that was like a rule, you know,
and I kind of get it. There is a chance
that he's not responsible for his actions, is what Huang decides.

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
So now in court, Rebecca is questioning Lincoln about what
happened when he gets knocked out on the field, like
what does that feel like? And he's like, I get headaches,
I'm dizzy, I'm sensitive to light, I'm forgetful. And then
they're like for example, and he goes, well, like recently,
I got my mom seats to a game, and when
she didn't show up, my mom told me that I
had called her screaming that she's a jinx and I

(01:03:48):
told her not to come.

Speaker 4 (01:03:49):
And he's like, I love my mom. I don't know
why I did that, and he.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Doesn't remember doing it, and Casey's like, okay, it's my turn.
You confess to murdering Jeremy and he goes I was confused.
I remember we argued, but I never hit him. And
no Vak corners him about how football was his life
and Jeremy pushed him to come out and you didn't
want your secret exposed, and Lincoln's like, I didn't care.

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
Jeremy came first. That's why I married him. Dunked on.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
They're married in Canada a private ceremony and he has
the license.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
It doesn't mean that much. I guess, like, is he Canadian?

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
I don't know, Like at that point, if you're not
married in the US, I don't know if it it's
kind of like a fun little thing to drop, but
I don't know if it's you know, all right, So
now Novak is pissed. She's walking with Benson and Stabler
and she goes, how did you miss his big fat
gay wedding? And Stabler is like, well, Stabler very rightfully goes,

(01:04:43):
what is being married? Prove men kill their wives all
the time, and it's very true, like if this show
tells us nothing else, that being married does not change
anything in the story. It makes you more likely to
be the person that killed someone. And she's like, no, he.

Speaker 4 (01:04:57):
Has funny who would do that to their daughter? And
it's like a lot of people, a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
Novaka's like, well no, now he's sympathetic, like he was
gay bashed and he almost died, and like it does
it does kind of change things from oh they were
just shady undercover gay lovers who they had an actual
wedding ceremony and they are in love and like life partners, right, Like,
I guess that could change things for some of the jurors.
And so he's like, Casey's like the women on the
panel love him, they want to make him all better.

(01:05:27):
Casey doesn't know how to rebut this whole setup and
plus now Lincoln is a grieving widower, and Craigan goes,
good question, and also Elliot's being called by the defense.

Speaker 4 (01:05:36):
Uh oh.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Rebecca is now questioning Stabler on the stand and goes,
did Lincoln seem confused or anything? And Stabler's like nope,
and She's like, huh really hours after a coma?

Speaker 4 (01:05:47):
Just all good?

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
And she goes, didn't you supply my client with most
of the details that were found in his confession? You
bullied him and coerced him, And stablesh playing it cool,
like no, we discussed what happened calmly. And then Rebecca goes,
he was fresh out of a coma and would have
confessed to killing Kennedy And Stable's like, well, he definitely
didn't do that, and Rebecca's like, he had brain damage

(01:06:08):
and your psychiatrist said so, And Stabler said, I've watched
Lincoln play for years. He's violent and aggressive. Are quarterbacks
usually violent? I always think of them as like the
guys that just kind of throw the ball and other
guys have to protect the quarterback.

Speaker 4 (01:06:21):
I don't know football very well. You know, you know it,
you're a new football girl.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
So I don't really think of QB's as being the
guys that are like the real violent guys, but right,
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Know, You're right, they're the ones getting sacked and hit
and like bullied or protected. They're like the little golden boys.
They're the dorks of the team. If anything, they're usually
the hot the hot dorks.

Speaker 4 (01:06:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
I never think of Tom Brady as being like like
a violent but they are.

Speaker 4 (01:06:47):
You know, he is, He's like, he is so agro.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
He's very much he doesn't eat tomatoes like he's that's true.

Speaker 4 (01:06:54):
If you don't eat night shades, you're gonna be a jerk.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
He's just he's just someone that like winning over Ever,
I think aggression and competitive spirit are obviously different too.
I think quarterbacks are like obviously very hard working, very competitive.
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, so like but I don't know
if competitiveness equals aggression or not. But I don't even
know if it's position based, because like you could still
like hit your helmet or be mad or like have

(01:07:17):
a tantrum, you know, Like I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:07:19):
Also if you have.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Brain damage that can cause aggression, you know, so like
that's all part of it like, but Rebecca says, you're
stereotyping him because he's a football player. He is not
a killer. And then Casey asks for recess. She wants
to bring in a TV to show footage of Lincoln playing,
and Rebecca's like objection, and they're like, you open the
door when you brought up Stabler's bias. Now we have
to watch footage of him playing to show that he's violent,

(01:07:42):
and Casey and the judge is like, you're right. So
Casey brings in this practice footage of Lincoln flipping out
because some guy like jostled his arm and he like
pushes into the ground and gets in his face. He's like,
don't ever do that again. Like he's acting like a
real agro asshole. So uh oh. Cut to deliberation time.
The jury finds Lincoln Haveer guilty and he is stoneface.

(01:08:04):
They close up on his very beautiful face at the
bar after Benton is peer pressuring Stabler to have another
drink and he's like, I can't, and she.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
Goes, I just broke up with Kurt.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
You said you'd be there for me, and he goes,
I am, But Eli is driving Kathy crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:08:19):
Never forget that this.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
Earlier this season, Stabler had his fifth fucking child that
he's never around for and they didn't name it after Olivia,
who helped fucking save Kathy from a Jaws of Life
car situation mid labor.

Speaker 4 (01:08:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
Yeah, she says, I'm kidding, get out of here or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:08:37):
And then the.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Bartender goes, hey, Olivia, your case is on the TV.
I think because he wanted too much from her. Oh,
He's like, move in with me, move in, you know,
I can help you. I could say, she doesn't let
people in like that, not at this stage, you know.
So the bartender goes, Olivia, your case is on TV,
and it's Gary Leslie, the agent, and he's at some

(01:08:57):
kind of like press conference, you know, the kind of
thing I would only be on like ESPN or something
where they're like, oh, Lincoln Haver's conviction is a tragedy,
but Dwayne Fitzgerald will be a great replacement. And then
he goes, just promise me I won't catch you making
out with your boyfriend in a restaurant bathroom, and liv
gets a light bulb. She's like, Gary said he didn't
know Lincoln was gay till after the murder, So now

(01:09:20):
so like, what is this?

Speaker 4 (01:09:21):
What's this bathroom situation all about?

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
So now they've got Gary in a room so dark
it literally looks like it's being illuminated by candlelight. It's
like there is one candle in the corner. The room
is pitch black. How did you find out that Lincoln
was gay? And he goes, I told you Natasha called
me after you outed him. And they're like, what about
the night the four of you had dinner? Did you
suspect anything then? And he's like, I don't know what

(01:09:44):
you're talking about. And then Live cuts to the chase.
She fucking drops a bar right on the table and goes,
we found the murder weapon in your apartment.

Speaker 4 (01:09:52):
This guy doesn't know his home has been searched yet.
This is wild.

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
So you saw Lincoln kissing Jeremy in the bathroom, and
all those years of hard work making Lincoln a star
and to see that, and he goes, it made me
want a puke, going at it like a pair of
horny teenagers. So he goes, I went to Jeremy's place
and talk some sent it to him and he told
me that Lincoln had just left. I begged him to
give Lincoln up He told me that they were getting
married and that they were gonna have a big party

(01:10:17):
that summer and come out to everyone, and he told
me to go out and find a new cash cow.
Now that because Lincoln's retiring, and Gary goes I lost it.
That stupid little fairy is ruining everything. I just wanted
to shut him up. I didn't mean to kill him.
So then they're like, oh, and then you found the
sex toys. You dressed him up to make it look
like rough sex gone bad, and you leaked it to

(01:10:38):
the media like you're the connection to sportsman Larry. I
don't know why we don't think the sports agent is
connected to sportsman Larry. I worked my ass off for
years getting him everything, and this little boyfriend wanted to
take it all away and Stabler I think goes. Love sucks,
and then Gary goes, yeah, doesn't it screw love? He's
a football player, a piece of meat I sell to

(01:10:59):
the highest bit. How many years do you think he
has left?

Speaker 4 (01:11:01):
Five? Ten?

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
If there's a miracle, why couldn't you just waited a
couple of years? And now so that guy just clearly
for a fixer, for a guy who fixes things professionally.
He really just gave it to them all. They're like, what,
we found the murder up and he's like, great, they've
got me. I'm going to jail for forty years. Like
I don't know, he just gave it to them. So
now they're in prison, springing Lincoln Haveer, who explains like, yeah,

(01:11:25):
I confess because I remember being there, I remember fighting.

Speaker 4 (01:11:28):
I thought I must have done it. And they're like, well,
I think you'll get back.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
To the game now, and he's like, no, the doctors
won't let me play because of my permanent brain damage.

Speaker 4 (01:11:36):
Then I wonder if.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
He still gets his forty mil I don't think so, right,
I don't know, Yeah, and he goes, I had it
all a man, I loved a career, football, gave me everything,
and then took it all away.

Speaker 4 (01:11:51):
And he walks off, And that's dick woo baby. I think,
I mean, I'm sorry. I think Benson is the one
who took it all away.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
It wasn't for Benson, like his lover would have been murdered,
which is devastating his husband. But she's the reason everyone
found out and even lost his career.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
But do you think if they had found out that
the agent did it, Like, what would the motive? Like,
what would everybody have had assumed that the motive would be.

Speaker 4 (01:12:18):
Then he could have badged him or whatever, but like.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
There would have been The thing is is like there
can always be rumors, Like there's there can always be
little rumors. The rumors don't always necessarily lead to like
losing stuff, you know. It's like when there's some kind
of like proof or whatever. Anyway, take me to the
reality of the real case.

Speaker 4 (01:12:43):
Well, the real case.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
We're going to a different kind of football, what we
would call soccer. So we're going to the UK, baby,
so it's foot Yeah. So this is about Justin Fashionu,
who is a British soccer player who was the first
professional football to come out as gay. He was born
in nineteen sixty one and raised in Hackney with his

(01:13:05):
Nigerian father and Guyanese mother. But when he was young
his parents split up and his dad went back to
Nigeria and was like peace out, bitch, and his mom
was just like struggling in poverty and couldn't take care
of them and actually release them, so they went to
foster care. Oh yeah, kind of crazy, but she couldn't

(01:13:27):
make ends meet and so she sent them to this
charity called Bernardo's and it prepares children for like the
foster system and adoption, and their mom did visit them
once a month. But yeah, so they ended up growing
up in Norfolk and football became the central theme of
the brother's lives.

Speaker 4 (01:13:43):
So it's Justin and John.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
They both played football and for years they were the
only black people they ever saw in their lives until
they were like eighteen nineteen years old, like everyone was
white and that was life for them, and to the Guardian,
according to them, like the brothers said, it was the
easiest way for us to make money. There were no
black bankers, lawyers or anything at all. We knew the
only way to make money if you were black was
either a saying dance or play football.

Speaker 4 (01:14:05):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
And so that's what these these brothers did. And he
ended up winning like the BBC's Goal of the Season
award in nineteen eighty against Liverpool and just he was
a really good player. In nineteen eighty one he joined
the Nottingham Forest and he was so he was transferred
from Norwich City. Like this is where it gets crazy.
I'm like, I don't this sounds like Robin Hood era,

(01:14:28):
Like I don't know what is this, So the Dottingham Forest.
So he's in Norwich City, which sounds like a chip brand.
And he became the first black footballer to be transferred
eb for a fee of one million pounds, so he
was like the highest paid black football player of his
time a million dollars for this transfer. During the season though,

(01:14:50):
he became a born again Christian, which is like weird,
and then he just like struggled to reconcile his life,
his religious beliefs is sexuality, his career like everything and
just kind of was in chaos. And I think a
lot of it was like not being able to be
who he was. But he ended up getting injured a lot, right,
and he was injured in nineteen eighty three, and he

(01:15:10):
just never played at that same high level that he
was used to. He was advised to retire, but he
didn't want to, and so he came to North America.
He played there professionally, but then in nineteen ninety he
found out that a British paper was going to out him,
so instead he sold his story to the Sun and
that was published October twenty second of that year. The

(01:15:31):
headline was one million pounds soccer star, I am gay
and he was twenty nine years old.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
I love that he was able to sort of at
least reclaim his own story and cut off the other
publication scoop.

Speaker 4 (01:15:46):
He basically scooped his own story. I like that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
Yeah, and he also needed money. I think he got
like seventy grand so I don't know, but the John
was pissed. John was homophobic. He would try and bribe
him for money not to come out, and after he did,
he publicly blashed him, condemned him for going public, said
he would never want to play with him, get changed
with him. But it's like it is also your brother
gay or not, Like, yeah, there's more issues. Yeah, if

(01:16:10):
he wants to insist, it's just like it's so homophobic
and backwards. But from ninety one to ninety four I
had conflicting accounts, and also because I don't understand football
that much, was like hard to get to the bottom
of and no source was credible, like the guard Like
I just couldn't find like real news about this, but

(01:16:32):
it said so you went back to the UK and
had the most successful period in British football and had
fun and was enjoying himself. He played for Torquay, Torque
United and England and the Jesus Great Air whatever this team,
these other teams like a Dronians FC and Heart of
Middle Athonian FC in Scotland, Like what the.

Speaker 4 (01:16:53):
Fuck is that? Yeah, mid Lothian god of fucking.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Life, guys, can you just be the like the saber
Tooth Tigers, Like I can't with these cities.

Speaker 4 (01:17:03):
But he was mocked.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
So he had these like great years of playing, but
like mocked by opposing players.

Speaker 4 (01:17:07):
And this is nothing new.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
I just saw a video of like a really really
young black player cried during a press conference after a
game because none of the media was addressing it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:16):
But it's like they're racist as fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
They throw bananas at black players like they're kind of evil.
So it's like, not only did you have to deal
with that, but of course he's gonna get mocked for
being gay and the fans hated it, you know, like
by opposing players, but his fans mostly supported him and
his teammates and whatever. So but then The Daily Mail
wrote that after he came out that his career declined.

Speaker 4 (01:17:36):
It's like I don't I.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Don't know, but he did eventually have to come to America.
So that's a downgrade for soccer obviously, like if you
have to come to America, you're not good, Like you're.

Speaker 4 (01:17:46):
Not as good as other people.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
His last match for the US was on a team
called the Atlanta Ruckus in nineteen ninety seven, and then
in nineteen ninety eight he became a coach of the
Maryland Now On March twenty fifth, nineteen ninety eight, he's
accused of sexual assault by a seventeen year old male.

(01:18:09):
His brother John is like it wasn't true, but so
he was accused and then there was a questioning and
some blood tests and a warrant was issued for his arrest.
He was interviewed by police, the arrant was issued charging
him a first and second degree assault and second degree
sexual assault, but he left for England and so then

(01:18:29):
on May first, nineteen ninety eight, two months after the
initial accusations, they issued a statement saying that they wanted
to go get him. And then the next day he
was found in his garage, Short and Shortage, London, and
he did he hung himself. So, two months after the accusations,
the warrant for his arrest. After all the search, he

(01:18:50):
did take his own life. He wrote a suicide note.
He wrote, I realized that I'd already been presumed guilty.
I do not want to give any more embarrassment to
my friends or family.

Speaker 4 (01:19:01):
But what if he did it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:03):
He did it, it's still sad, yeah, but it's just
like there was just let me just finish and then
we can get into like the nitty gritty of our
thoughts on this, because this isn't black and white, so
fashion U did maintain that relations were consensual. Also in Maryland,
the age of consent is sixteen, but we don't care
about that. I don't know, Like, but also at this

(01:19:25):
time in Maryland, just being homosexual was illegal, like sodally,
so homosexual acts in general were illegal there. So like
I do wonder what the investigation and anything like that was.
But if he assaulted this tea, and I mean, not
a lot of innocent people go take their own lives,
So I don't know. I wish there was more information
on the rape we believe victims on this podcast, but

(01:19:47):
none of this seems to matter because he did eventually
get inducted into the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 4 (01:19:51):
So it's like it was all tragic but he was
a good player.

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
I don't know, and I couldn't really find any like
good research, and like the things I did find were
like editorial. It was like people's opinions and sports journalists.
But that's like not something I can use. And so
in twenty eighteen, his brother John did admaze like I
was a monster to Justine when he came out, and
then as anisamal fashion, new set up justin fashion new

(01:20:17):
foundation dedicated to her uncle. But one website is not
active anymore. The posts are a year long. Another site
I found looked weird. I don't know what this foundation
is about, probably like prevention of mental health, but I
have no idea. She was just ten when he took
his own life. In twenty twenty, she accepted his Hall

(01:20:38):
of Fame of Word on what would have been his
fifty ninth birthday. No current football players ever come out
during their time playing. So people have come out post retirement,
but no one has ever come out again, and we
need to make sure that this changes, like obviously, because yeah,
you know, I was reading like kids end up quitting

(01:20:58):
sports because they don't want to come out, or they
feel so uncomfortable or like you know, they can't be
everything or they're risking their whole like passion for sports
or coming out. And I don't know. It's just like
homophobia is stupid and that's that. And I don't I
know this. I don't know how you get into the
Hall of Fame after having these accusations, but then you're

(01:21:19):
dead and it's sad that you took your own life
and what was what was what was it?

Speaker 4 (01:21:23):
I don't know, and there's no information.

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
Yeah yeah, I mean, I just I just, I mean,
I if he committed a crime, I obviously don't condone that,
but I just feel like it must have just been
an extremely hard life of being other to not only
be the only black person for the first almost twenty
years of your life that you even see is your

(01:21:46):
brother and you, and then to have this additional thing
of your sexuality where your brother even rejects you when
you come out about it. You know, like that he
just must have had like a really and that's tough.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
And that's the other Like all this other news that
I found was mostly as brother talking and I'm like,
I don't trust you.

Speaker 4 (01:22:07):
Yeah yeah, yeah. Suddenly you're changing the narrative and there
was like.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
A show made about his life, Like there's like all
this stuff and it was just him promoting and apologizing,
but also all this like I mean stuff in the press.

Speaker 4 (01:22:18):
So it was just like kind of difficult.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
Yeah, it's so crazy to me that there's not a
single football player in the UK that's out, like just statistically,
there's definitely a bunch of gay football players.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
You know, it's just not worth it. Yeah, yeah, I
get it. It's kind of like, yeah, people are so backwards.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
Well, we have a great interview that is going to
change everything.

Speaker 4 (01:22:48):
Don't go anywhere. Our guest today is.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
A prolific TV actor who was in the main cast
of such shows as Saving Grace, Longmire, and twenty four Legacy.
Also featured in some beloved nineties classics like Sweet Valley
High and Buffy the Vampire Slayer. But you know him
today as the closeted NFL player Lincoln Haveber. Please enjoy
our chat with the lovely Bailey Chase. I mean, I

(01:23:19):
want to start off real quick with if Wikipedia is
correct about you.

Speaker 4 (01:23:23):
You played football at Duke.

Speaker 5 (01:23:26):
That's true.

Speaker 4 (01:23:27):
That's true.

Speaker 5 (01:23:27):
They also yeah, they said I'm worth fifty million dollars too.

Speaker 4 (01:23:33):
I wish that were sure.

Speaker 1 (01:23:34):
Yeah, the net worth things on the internet are amazingas Wait,
so do.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
You feel like your football past helped book with your
special skills?

Speaker 5 (01:23:47):
Yes, navigating people on the streets of New York football
comes in here. You know that that was such a
so whatever, I'm going to jump ahead. I did a
soap opera for like three years in New York. It
was right after nine to eleven, and I was doing
the thing out in la and a lot of my
college buddies went into finance and literally work on Wall Street,

(01:24:08):
and so I felt this call to go there, and
I got offered the soap opera. I was like, yeah,
I'm gonna I'm gonna go do that, and it was
three of the best years of my life. It was
you know, it'd be harder now with young children, but yeah,
it was great as a as a soap star. Is
this soap star?

Speaker 4 (01:24:25):
Yeah? Wait?

Speaker 1 (01:24:27):
Which yea?

Speaker 3 (01:24:28):
Was it?

Speaker 4 (01:24:28):
As the world turns? Is that what you do?

Speaker 5 (01:24:31):
And then I lived in Tribecca, was just above Grand Zeo,
and then I would drive by and go through the
tunnel to work.

Speaker 4 (01:24:39):
Because they did they did, they shoot all the soaps
in Jersey.

Speaker 5 (01:24:41):
So this one was in Brooklyn. I think it's where
they shot the Honeymooners and some some like old time shows.
And then As the World Turns was god, it went
fifty two years or something.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
Yeah, I can't soaps. Well, I was so ssessed. I
mean s for you kind of in a way. It's
like my soap, you know, just one main character who
I care about.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
Really wait, but I do haven't As the World Turns
because I was watching an interview with someone else, but
they said doing soaps help them learn how to like
memorize a lot and work fast and all these things
like is that how you felt?

Speaker 4 (01:25:21):
Did you learn a lot?

Speaker 5 (01:25:23):
I did? Yeah, I wasn't so sure that, you know,
like all young actors who take themselves too seriously and
I was guilty of that. I was like, no, I'm
just gonna do like movies like Brad Pitt, right, like
Tom Cruise. And then reality sets in and I had
had a little bit of success or whatever, but all
that that money comes and goes, and I was broke
and I was like twenty nine years old, like what

(01:25:45):
am I going to do? And it did? It helped
teach me how to become a pro. And you log,
there's that book Outliers MOTHLM. Gladwell in the ten thousand.
Oh yeah, you log so much time front of the camera,
right wow, Okay, now now I can hit marks and
I can Oh it's on this camp because it was

(01:26:05):
three cameras at the time. I'm sure soaps still do that,
and like, god, when's last time you did three cameras
at the same time, like in that in that studio
set up like a friend sitcom shop.

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
Yeah. You know, it's funny because we talked to so
many people who obviously have done SVU and they all
talk about how quick it is, like because it's like
a well oiled machine, and like the crew is really
well like a depth and everything, and they'll just do
sort of coverage and you know, two sides or whatever.
But I've never really asked soap stars, do you guys
do multiple takes or is it just like so so fast,

(01:26:40):
because it's like it's every day you just got to
do it. You just obviously you're not going to like
let a flub in there, but like, do you guys
like do tons of takes or not?

Speaker 4 (01:26:48):
Really, it's like must be lightning speed.

Speaker 5 (01:26:51):
It is lightning speed, And if you're a perfectionist at all,
which which you know, I've gotten better about nothing. But yeah,
you they just fly. They just keep it unless it's
a disaster, and then it's kind of a big deal
to like go back whatever. But no, when I was
doing it, you know, seventeen years ago, it was yeah,

(01:27:16):
we didn't do two takes.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
Yeah, never, Oh my gosh, just like you better nail it,
get out of here.

Speaker 5 (01:27:22):
Yeah yeah. Yeah, And some people washed out, and then
other people stayed forever.

Speaker 4 (01:27:28):
Susan Lucci one of the greats.

Speaker 2 (01:27:32):
Oh wild, But you were booking such cool stuff right
as you started, were you like, oh I got it?

Speaker 5 (01:27:41):
Yeah, they watched it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
I mean Buffy, I get like so many cool things.

Speaker 5 (01:27:47):
Yeah. Once Buffy happened, I was like, oh yeah, I
made it. You know, it took three years, okay, But for.

Speaker 1 (01:27:51):
Me, it was before that when we were on Sweet
Valley High, the TV show, because that is an iconic
part of my childhood. Oh my god, I forgot about
I mean, yeah, Kara's very connected.

Speaker 4 (01:28:03):
I love Sweet Valley High. Tell me I just love
like I loved her album.

Speaker 2 (01:28:09):
Her comedy album is artwork, as Kara in the art
from the books, So.

Speaker 1 (01:28:14):
I commissioned the guy who did the famous covers of
the books to do the cover of my album. So
it's me as twins like on the cover of my album.
And like, I don't even know if like he's still
with us, but like I was so happy that I
found this guy and he was doing commissions and stuff.
But then I was obsessed with those twins that played
the Twins. Those two out like they're there, they're twins, actresses,

(01:28:37):
they still do stuff, but.

Speaker 5 (01:28:39):
They're from Florida. Yeah, yeah, I know them, Brittany and
Cynthia Daniel.

Speaker 1 (01:28:45):
Yeah, they're like on they've done like Blackett or like
an Housewife and yeah, all kind of there. And that
show was just I don't know that for me when
I was reading your IMDb, that's what popped first. And
then my husband was like, well he was on Buffy
and he was like looking up who you were Buffy
because he was a big Buffy fan. Yeah, and then
Damages Damages for me huge. Well, you've worked with like

(01:29:10):
so many powerhouse women, like Glenn Close, You've worked with
Holly Hunter, obviously, the twins from Sweet Valley.

Speaker 4 (01:29:17):
I mean like these are these are like.

Speaker 1 (01:29:21):
Yeah, I mean Sarah Michelle Gellar like Maurusia Arbitat, you've
worked with a lot of like powerhouse women.

Speaker 5 (01:29:27):
It's cool I have and thank you, and yeah, I
was raised by a single mom and and so you know,
I have a lot of respect in MoMA's Boy. And
yeah after you know, doing a series with with someone
like Holly like you know, not a whole lot phases me.
And so Glenn Close is definitely in that category.

Speaker 1 (01:29:49):
And yeah, we got to get her the oscar. It's
not it's it's it's a it's a it's really a travesty.
Let's let's dive into the actual s view now, like
because we obviously we'll keep talking to you about your career,
but we usually we've done this a little bit backwards.
We normally start with s you, so you what was

(01:30:09):
your what was going on in your career? Like when
you got us, when you got this big part on
this SVU episode. I mean this is season nine, the
show's been plugging along for a few years. I think
Marishka's won an Emmy at this point, so the show's popular.
You get this part, they're like, you know how to
throw a spiral, Let's get you in here, like how
did it?

Speaker 5 (01:30:28):
Yeah, like, yeah, so this is post soap opera and
all that stuff. You know. I left after the three years,
and I was lucky my first kind of within a year,
I was on Saving Grace with the Holly Hunter. And
this was you know, way back when film stars weren't
dead like there were. You had your soap stars, your
TV stars, and your film stars and they were all separate. Yeah,

(01:30:49):
and after and everything was separate. And then you're all
your theater actors, which I'm not good tough to do.
But so I got sv you either during a hiatus
or right after Saving Grace was done. I think it
was a hiatus, and so they offered it to me
and I was like, yeah, I want to go to
New York for ten days and haven't put me up

(01:31:11):
and you know, I grew up the law and orders
are awesome. And then yeah, you know it's this football
player who you know, and it's called Closet. And that
was something that hadn't been tackled yet and something that
I don't speak about often was my mom spent the
last twenty some years of her life with another woman.

(01:31:33):
So for me to get an opportunity to play that
character you know, which I haven't really done in my career.
I got to do it on a reboot at twenty
four after that, but you know, playing for a guy
who's on another team was was different and I felt
honored in a way to bring it to light.

Speaker 1 (01:31:52):
And yeah, yeah, that's so, that's so cool because I
feel like some actors would have maybe turned it down
or you know know, like two thousand and eight. It's
like it seems like modern, but there's there, you know,
and we always talk about SVU is like ahead of
the curve on a lot of this stuff. Like they're
doing a they're doing like an episode about this before,

(01:32:14):
like you know, is it Michael Sam Like before there's
a lot of real talk about pro athletes being out
of the closet, you know, like they really are sort
of like prescient in the way they tackle a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:32:26):
Of these social issues.

Speaker 1 (01:32:27):
So this episode really sticks that because it's relevant. It's like, yeah,
and it's also sad that it's been seventeen years and nothing. Yeah,
there's still not really I mean we talk about it
when we did the recap. I think there was like
one out player and he retired after a couple of
seasons and uh you know, yeah, like you really captured

(01:32:47):
the sort of whole, the journey. Yeah, the whole and
the whole. Yeah, yeah, the institution of football. I mean,
it's almost like football will be the last sport where
this is happening. I feel like it's such a just
but it is so gay. Yeah, it's like so homo erotic.

Speaker 4 (01:33:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
You passed the ball through your like between your legs.

Speaker 4 (01:33:11):
Yeah, and then you all jump on top of each other.

Speaker 5 (01:33:14):
Yeah, it's true, it's true. Yeah, it's that's when you
hike the ball.

Speaker 2 (01:33:20):
One of the most famous shots, I would say an
SVU history is the cemetery night vision, them finally realizing
it's you were you actually at a cemetery?

Speaker 4 (01:33:33):
Did you go shoot at a cemetery?

Speaker 5 (01:33:35):
You know, I don't remember the cemetery. I remember a
lot of things about that episode. It was so it
was it was the coolest part was going to Giant Stadium.

Speaker 4 (01:33:45):
We got to oh yeah, it was where you guys
were practicing.

Speaker 5 (01:33:49):
Yeah, we played football in the meadowlands and that that
was really cool. And in college I'd had the chance
to play there against Rutgers, but it was just we
had the whole place to ourselves. And you're out there
with these you know, crew guys, and obviously crew guys
in you know New York, New Jersey are very different
than the l A Crew guys. So we were all
like playing football when whenever we could, and and and

(01:34:11):
so that was super fun. And then we were like
shooting on these you know, random you know, little uh
kind of side streets in Manhattan, and you got to
block up traffic and there's noise everywhere. So that's always
a big deal, like when you know you're shooting. So
I remember that that that uh, that part of it
was was really fun. But the other thing about the character,

(01:34:33):
other than trying to shine a light on you know,
this is this is something that needs to be talked about,
you know, with with just gay you know, professional athletes
in general. It should you know, we should. This is
something we should be able to talk about. I got
to play a character that wasn't all together. So if
you go back to like Buffy, like, yeah, here's a

(01:34:54):
guy who's got it all together, they're saving Grace. That guy,
you know, he thinks, you know, I had it all together.
Same with the soap, but I got to play a
damaged individual who was hiding, shame and guilt and all
these other things that I know my mom carried, you
know with her and her adult life, and nobody, nobody
deserves or needs that. So I what a cool thing

(01:35:15):
to play as an actor. And I feel like that
Little Guest Star was probably the best work that I've
done in my career at that point.

Speaker 4 (01:35:24):
Wow, it's a really good and.

Speaker 5 (01:35:26):
You got to as anybody ever said that on your
show before.

Speaker 4 (01:35:30):
Yeah, we've said it to me that this is your
best work ever.

Speaker 1 (01:35:37):
I mean you also got to We like to talk
about something that we call like the SVU Bingo card,
like where you get to do a few different specific
things and like what you got. You hit a lot
of them. One is around the head bandage all the
way when you're in the hospital. We love them, all
the way around the head bandage. You also got to code,
you got to like almost die. Uh, you're on the stand.

(01:35:59):
You're on the stand. You got Olivia Benson cradled you
in her arms. I mean these are all huge moments.

Speaker 4 (01:36:06):
You you have.

Speaker 1 (01:36:06):
You have bingo basically on sv Bingo as we have made.
We actually should make the cards. We have to make
the actual Bingo cards.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
Wait, the other bingo moment. Yeah, and misterpher and Maloney
whispered in your ear. He got real close. That's kind
of a that's a thing of his.

Speaker 1 (01:36:23):
He gets close, especially like an episode that's like that's
like dealing with a guy that's in the closet and
then Christopher Maloney's like up there whispering in your ear.
Like he gets close enough to kiss most of the
purpse on the show. But it was especially funny how
he was just like, so, this is what happened, and
he's like whispering his whole hypothesis in your ear.

Speaker 4 (01:36:44):
How was working with him?

Speaker 5 (01:36:45):
Yeah, he was. He was interesting. I liked him a lot.
He's intense. He's intense and you know, just an alpha
of an alpha male and uh and so it was
it was kind of interesting, like you know because I
show up and whatever, and you know it's I wasn't
doing anything like this is his turf and whatever. I'm

(01:37:07):
not like lifting my lego and stuff. But he had
he did have a bad day where he was throwing
stuff and I was like, okay, like whatever, But then
like I hadn't really seen that. I'd seen some temper
tantrums and you know, like i'd been around, but he yeah,
he threw some stuff one day and I was like,
oh okay. And then I definitely, you know, bonded more

(01:37:30):
with Mriscoe Hardy tape. She would totally maternal and she
was friends with Holly Hunter and so we kind of
connected some dots there. But Chris, he kind of kept himself.
But he was nice and very respectful with you know,
let's say my close ups or whatever. So I got
nothing bad to say about him, but it definitely intense.

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
He didn't play football with you guys, No, no, no, ss.

Speaker 4 (01:37:58):
What did he throw.

Speaker 5 (01:38:01):
Some equipment? Yeah, like some lighting stuff you got fell
down lighting his hell like some Yeah, he was upset
about something and then and then cut to cut to
like a year later, he leaves the show like he
wasn't around the next season. But then obviously he didn't
burn too many bridges because he comes back.

Speaker 4 (01:38:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:38:20):
Yeah, Well we've talked to the showrunners and stuff about that,
and they're like, it's was all purely like contractual, like
it was just contract stuff like that. The reason he
didn't come back, Like I think he liked doing the
show or whatever, but it was you know, but yeah,
he left after season twelve. So but like, uh so
wait you also, I mean so many more bingo things.

(01:38:41):
You get a celebrity lawyer, bevery ly D'Angelo is your lawyer?
Oh yeah, okay, we've had her on the pod and
we love her.

Speaker 5 (01:38:48):
How was working with her amazing? She actually exactly what
you see is what you get. She's the bomb.

Speaker 1 (01:38:55):
Oh. We could have talked to her for like three hours.
We were like, we have to go, like it was.

Speaker 5 (01:38:59):
She was the best.

Speaker 1 (01:39:00):
She was like, let me tell you more about al Pacino.
We were like okay, yeah, yeah. And then another thing
is you got to be psychologically, uh neurologically analyzed by B. D.
Wong George Wong, one of our favorite characters, and I'm
obsessed with this scene. When I did the recap of
the episode, I was just like, how it's mostly your

(01:39:22):
voiceover and then it's you just like connecting dots on
a board, Like do you remember doing all these like
neurological tests. Like Neil Baer was the showrunner of the
show at the time, and he's an actual adoptor, so
I'm assuming these were like real tests that they had
set up for you.

Speaker 5 (01:39:37):
Definitely, I guess I guess. Yeah. No, I do remember
doing some some tests, but I didn't research that the
right you know, validity of but beat. I remember Bead.
He was great, Yeah, everybody was Yeah. It was fun
and it turned out like really really good. I remember

(01:39:58):
the casting director saying years later he hired me for
Chicago Pad. It was another kind of offer thing.

Speaker 6 (01:40:06):
I think I was coming off a Longmire and I
was like, yeah, I definitely would love to do that,
and he's like, you know, I have cast however, many
thousand episodes and that's one of my favorite ones.

Speaker 4 (01:40:16):
Yeah, how about that huge?

Speaker 5 (01:40:18):
How about that knowledge?

Speaker 4 (01:40:19):
Yeah, I think that one. It's definitely one of the classes.
It's definitely one of the classics.

Speaker 2 (01:40:23):
It's definitely like, yeah, and then now you're doing a
lot of cowboys stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:40:29):
Yeah, yeah, how that happened?

Speaker 4 (01:40:32):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (01:40:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:34):
Do you think it is it the vibe is it
now that you're in or do you think North Carolina
affected the cowboy connection?

Speaker 5 (01:40:43):
It's a good question. I think I think I'm I.
I guess it started with Saving Grace because I was Oklahoma,
and then Longmire, which was you know, Wyoming. But but
I did grow up riding, so my dad stayed in
Barrington Hills. Actually he's a fox hunter. So my brother
and I had ponies. It's kids, so we you know,

(01:41:05):
it's like riding a bike when you start young. Like
I've always been able to ride pretty well, and.

Speaker 2 (01:41:10):
So your resume special skills are good. You can play
football and you're riding horses.

Speaker 5 (01:41:16):
Yeah, I think I should actually maybe put horseback riding
above my name. I don't know, yeah, but yeah, I am.
I'm good on a horse. Gonna say so that that's true. Uh,
and I think there yeah, there aren't a ton of
actors who can ride well. But it did. It just
kind of happened because I'm you know, Chicago, raised in Florida,

(01:41:40):
went to school in North Carolina. But but now, like
living here in the mountains is different than going to
school over in like Rollie Durham, Like that's one thing,
but the mountains is it's as you guys know you've
been here, there's there's a little more of a redneck vibe. Yeah,
so you know, but I'm like a white trash these

(01:42:02):
other places.

Speaker 4 (01:42:03):
There's also like a huge demand for this stuff now.

Speaker 1 (01:42:06):
I think since Yellowstone got so popular, right like now,
there's like a demand for all more cowboys. Not that
cowboys stuff hasn't been a huge part of American entertainment
for a long time. But I feel like now I'm
seeing so many Yellowstone adjacent You're right.

Speaker 5 (01:42:19):
And then there was a pilot season of the Yellowstone knockoff, yes,
and those didn't last because there's only one Yellowstone, and
Ohmire was pretty good but never quite did what Yellowstone did.
But but yeah, I agree with you, a total resurgence.
And so there was a moment there where you know,
I was getting ready to do a new show. I

(01:42:40):
was actually going to do a comedy, right, and then
the pandemic everything got shut down and then didn't work
for a couple of years. And then that's that was
kind of my way back in where I was doing
some of these westerns and and that's been great. But
now I have a new series going in Utah, so
I'm back in the Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:42:56):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:42:57):
So I was going to ask you, so like having
your family in North Carolina, but then being an actor,
like you must be kind of on the road a lot, right,
like you just commute to work and.

Speaker 5 (01:43:07):
Kind kind of kind of now and and so how
that started to happen out of the pandemic. And when
I was, you know, New Year, I was just leaving
for a month or two months at a time and go,
do you know like a Christmas movie? Because I needed
the money or it's also cool to make things that
your kids can can watch. Yeah, so I'm proud of

(01:43:29):
my two little Christmas nooze and then uh and then
the westerns do you tend to get offered to me? Now?
And and those are great because as you know, I
love to ride. But this new thing is called Homestead.
We shoot it out in Utah. It started as a
as a feature, has always developed to be a series,
but then we had that Hollywood strike and so the

(01:43:50):
only way they could shoot it was as a as
a feature. And so that was basically the first two episodes.
We shot a couple more, and now we're going back
this summer to finish the first season and planning on
doing season two in the snow.

Speaker 2 (01:44:03):
Oh yeah, that's actually what I'm hoping for White the
next White Lotus.

Speaker 1 (01:44:07):
I want snow. Oh well, a great idea I thought
they were. Parker Posey said it should be in the
Alps so people can get where people should get gratitude,
like crazy altitude weirdness, altitude sickness.

Speaker 5 (01:44:20):
Yeah, it's a thing. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. We got
married and Aspen and my wife got it. It's an
actual Wow. Yeah we did ski wedding.

Speaker 4 (01:44:27):
That's cool. Wow you ski too, another thing on your
list of the skills, geezus.

Speaker 2 (01:44:33):
So you're going to do snow riding skiing time? What's
Florida wild?

Speaker 5 (01:44:40):
Oh? Another Western So it's always kind of a dream
of mine to go back to Florida and work. I'd
never you know, filmed anything down there. And uh and
there's a sky marked Pentecost too. You know, had this
this dream and he built this old western town on
his ranch. And the movies based on this book about

(01:45:01):
how they used to do these cattle drives back, you know,
through the Everglades and they get them out to the railroad.

Speaker 1 (01:45:06):
It's so cool. I just got back from Florida two
days ago.

Speaker 4 (01:45:11):
I was there. Oh, Sarasota.

Speaker 5 (01:45:13):
Okay, so that's where you fly.

Speaker 4 (01:45:15):
Into you fly Tampa, but you know s r Q.

Speaker 5 (01:45:19):
Yeah yeah, yeah, So I'm actually going back to Sarasota
for a thing down there. And then you go out
to a place called Mayaca City, middle of nowhere. There's
like an elephant sanctuary got there. So it's technically not
the Everglades but just north of but it's all like
Marshy kind of same same topography.

Speaker 4 (01:45:37):
Oh that's awesome. So you have a lot coming up
and you're doing a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:45:41):
Yeah yeah, oh yeah, I almost forgot. There's another one
that just came out in theaters on Friday. It's called
Sod and Stubble. Another Western kind of you know, pioneer
back when Kansas was a frontier based on a book,
real life story. This one's a little more you know,
it's hard, it's hard living back in the teen eighties,
and you go like stick your claim. But yeah, Soud

(01:46:04):
and Stubbles in theaters right now, Florida Wilds on Deck
and then Homestead or Homestead All.

Speaker 1 (01:46:10):
Right, Well, you're like, that's like a good success story
of like someone who moved to like a different part
of the country and can still like be doing acting.

Speaker 4 (01:46:19):
You know, like that's great.

Speaker 5 (01:46:21):
Yeah, and yet not to get all religious about it,
but it did take a real leap of faith, and
being back here in North Carolina, I feel more supported.
Like I actually, after doing this for twenty five years,
was like I might have to find a new profession,
and so I should. You know, I'm happy to speak

(01:46:42):
candidly for any of the other actors out there in
the audience. But I took this sleep of faith, and
you know, he caught me. And I feel supported and
I'm excited about the future.

Speaker 1 (01:46:53):
And I guess if you had to make a career
change where you could be like a football coach or
a horse wrangler, or you could say, or a ski instructor.
I mean there's a few things I feel like you
can fall back on.

Speaker 5 (01:47:05):
Apparently I'm pretty good at bingos.

Speaker 1 (01:47:06):
Yeah, yeah, bingo. Yes, down at church. You gotta run church, Bingo.
Thank you so much for talking to us and taking
the time. This was so fun. We got an NFL
Lincoln Haver on the on the pod.

Speaker 4 (01:47:20):
It's huge. It's a fun things. I love it.

Speaker 5 (01:47:25):
I love it. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:47:30):
Wow, good chats, good talk. Same issues. We'll never progress
as humans. I don't know what I like is that's
what's keeping us down thinking we can get But I mean,
I'm sure it's better. I feel like there are a
lot of gultees in the streets.

Speaker 4 (01:47:47):
I get it. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:47:49):
Yeah, I mean, athletics is definitely an area where things
are slow to change.

Speaker 4 (01:47:55):
But yeah, this episode.

Speaker 2 (01:47:59):
Wait, I just got a text that like pops up
on my screen while we're recording, and it's it's from
a friend and it says, is Lisa vander Pump running
a brothel?

Speaker 4 (01:48:09):
Question mark.

Speaker 1 (01:48:14):
What.

Speaker 2 (01:48:14):
I'll get back to that after we're done recording, of course,
but I thought I would share with everyone. Yeah, athletics
does move slowly, but I am thinking about just like
that woman that tried to run the first the Boston
Marathon and people like truly we're trying to rip her
down and pull her away, and like the fake pseudoscience
that's used to like have prevented women from wing sports.

Speaker 4 (01:48:33):
I feel like women have made huge.

Speaker 1 (01:48:35):
Progress, Yes, and we've got you exactly, and like like
now there's like female.

Speaker 4 (01:48:40):
They're all major teams, and you know.

Speaker 1 (01:48:42):
Like we're getting we're getting progressive there, but like I
still think to.

Speaker 4 (01:48:47):
Be I was on my football team in eighth grade.

Speaker 1 (01:48:50):
Yeah, of course Lisa a pioneer bursting those doors open,
of course, but I just like I still feel like
you as like if you're like a gay NBA player,
NFL player, you're like you're probably just not coming out
until you're retiring, because even if you're like accepted by

(01:49:11):
your teammates, you're probably not getting that Gatorade deal or
whatever that. Like they talk about what's the d what's
the drink called in this one? Something stupid that I
thought I had a better name for. Oh yeah, power twink.
I wanted to be called power twink. What is power drink?
But you know, I just uh, yeah, this show always
reminds me like ben far we've come and how far

(01:49:34):
we've not come?

Speaker 2 (01:49:35):
But Benson ruined it. I mean, Benson definitely outed this man. Yes,
all of the fallout is because of Benson. Sorry, like sorry,
not sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:49:46):
I don't know that they've ever given her such a
blunder before, like that, She's obviously made mistakes, she's been
wrong about the suspect and stuff, but like such a
thing where it's like you ruin this man's career, like
you ruined this man's fucking life.

Speaker 2 (01:50:00):
Yeah, you're right, we got to think of it. But yeah,
it's a bad one. I can but that bitch. They
should have arrested her for something and like put her
in the box. I don't know, she couldn't text. Oh,
they should have breaken all the roads.

Speaker 4 (01:50:15):
Not pretty enough for me? Swim on the cover of
the Swimsuit issue.

Speaker 2 (01:50:18):
Yeah, yeah, she's a beautiful girl.

Speaker 1 (01:50:21):
It's just like, well she she said the F word.
I think we can let it go. But the actress, yes,
the actress pretty.

Speaker 2 (01:50:26):
You don't think they already got someone booked for this
big time spread, like maybe she could be in it.
But the cover of Sports Illustrates to me is just
like it's like the September issue of Vogue.

Speaker 4 (01:50:36):
It's like this is like months in advance.

Speaker 1 (01:50:38):
It's really crazy how much it was ingrained into our youth.
Like I would be like in eighth grade being like
who got the cover? Like what do I give a shit?
I never read Yeah, ma, oh my god, whoever gets
fifty most Beautiful people on People magazine? Like the cover
of that was like it had me in a choke hold.
I was obsessed with all of those magazine covers.

Speaker 4 (01:50:58):
Now print media is.

Speaker 1 (01:50:59):
Like please, please by thing. You know, I just bought
a People. By the way, I just bought a People magazine.
I used to be kind of really into People on
the airplane and whenever I would travel, and then when
they had Trump on the cover, like right after he
got elected the first time, and I think EG and
Carol used to write for People. I was like, oh,
fuck you guys, like I'm done with People, but I

(01:51:20):
grabbed it now eight years later. Once recently, Okay, the
whole cover story was about this NFL player he played
like one season whose wife was plotting to kill him.

Speaker 4 (01:51:30):
This is relevant to our genre.

Speaker 1 (01:51:33):
Okay, he's now dating Savannah Chrisly from Chrisly Knows Best
the Man. Okay, but the cover story is about and
actually he just broke up with Savannah out of nowhere,
and she's very upset about it, but at the time
he's still dating her. She he's so rich somehow, this
guy that.

Speaker 4 (01:51:51):
They have a private plane.

Speaker 1 (01:51:52):
He gets into a huge fight with his wife because
she wants to use the private plane to go down
to the Bahamas, but he knows she's going to see
her new boyfriend. They're still living together even though they're separated,
so he's like, no, you're not allowed to. So then
she texts her boyfriend and her boyfriend's friend in the
Bahamas kill him or something like that, because she sees
a picture of him in the Bahamas with his girlfriend.
So she's like pissed, and she texts kill him that

(01:52:14):
somehow is a murder plot. No money is exchanged, no
plans are made, no no.

Speaker 4 (01:52:19):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:52:19):
She doesn't say she's she's on trial, like she's literally
going to trial for a murder plot of her husband.

Speaker 4 (01:52:27):
And I read this.

Speaker 1 (01:52:27):
People article, I'm like, am I are you guys this
desperate to sell magazines?

Speaker 4 (01:52:31):
Like this is not even a case.

Speaker 1 (01:52:34):
Like there's a fucking serial killer possibly in New England
and like that no one's paying attention to Oh my.

Speaker 2 (01:52:39):
God, yes, And I was in herd Island when I
found out about it. Oh yeah, god, wait hold on,
I'm trying to read this while you're telling me about it.
I'm like overwhelmed. The christly Like I just I'm like,
what the fuck? Like if ever, every time I said
kill him was in my phone and I was on
trial for murder, right, It's.

Speaker 1 (01:52:54):
Like if you are like exactly, like if we were
like we think Mark Zuckerberg should be in front of
a firing squad, It's like they come in and they
get us like like the she did not exchange any
money with them, didn't say, hey, he normally is at
this diner at this time. Go get him, like there
was no plot in place, and this woman's like literally
having to go down to the Bahamas and go to
trial all the time. It's crazy. And then this guy

(01:53:17):
dumps the Vanna Christly on her ass. That Christly guy's
in jail till twenty thirty three. That's a long time
for like the tax evasion shit, that's a long time.
You can't fuck with the government. I don't have the money.
You can't fuck with money. I don't know, Yeah, but
like all I want to know what the charges were, Like,
what are her fucking charges? Like everything is salacious, Like

(01:53:39):
every news headline is, oh, Clement sure has nothing to
do with this.

Speaker 4 (01:53:42):
Again, I can't. I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:53:44):
Yeah, but we've been getting some messages from listeners about
this New England serial killer. I mean, the cops are
saying they're not connected. It's oh really, yeah. I first
think there's not a ton of like that kind of murder,
serial murdering I feel like happening in like New England,
And so I think all of the I say that

(01:54:06):
as a New Englander, I don't think there's a lot
of good law enforcement, Like I don't think they have precedent.

Speaker 2 (01:54:10):
I don't think they know what. They're like doing a lot,
you know, when it's ten bodies now found in less
than two months. But it's kind of like with the
Long Island killer, the cops and the chief of whatever.
I was like, no, no, no, not connect Ell. She
wanted to go like they're fucking animals. Like, I don't
know what to tell you. They have their own little
secret cult going on.

Speaker 1 (01:54:26):
It's at least getting a little bit oppressed now, but
I don't know if the cops are doing anything about it.

Speaker 2 (01:54:31):
Label it, yeah, officials address rumors, you know, like they
don't want to. Well, now an aar restumate in a
homicide of New England women one day ago. So but
it's people dot com. I don't know if we like, wait,
you know what case John Kultfo was arrested in connection
with the death of Suzanne worms start and you know what,
everyone everyone was bringing up the read case like I
couldn't get on stage.

Speaker 1 (01:54:52):
Can't of course Rhode Island, like I said, it's Massachusetts, cousin.

Speaker 4 (01:54:57):
There's too much crime. I can't keep up with all
of this and live a life.

Speaker 1 (01:55:00):
Well, the other thing I was going to say, too,
is that they've been wrapping up the trial of that
guy who traveled to Idaho to kill a bunch of
beautiful little kids.

Speaker 4 (01:55:08):
I mean not kids.

Speaker 1 (01:55:09):
They're like college students, but they're like, you know, they
didn't do anything, and if they.

Speaker 4 (01:55:14):
Did something, they don't deserve No, no, I know, but
you know what I mean, like they weren't. They weren't.

Speaker 1 (01:55:19):
There's no perfect victims. But it's like they didn't even
know this person. They didn't even know this man.

Speaker 2 (01:55:22):
And I don't even think he's maintains death penalty as possible, Okay,
because I was about to be like, and I bet
he's not even getting Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:55:29):
I think they're trying to get this guy. And I
think Idaho.

Speaker 4 (01:55:32):
I just read something that Idaho maybe does firing squad.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:55:36):
Yeah, according in March, the governor of Idaho said that
he signed a law last month that the firing squad
will be the primary death penalty in Idaho. So this
guy might get firing squad.

Speaker 4 (01:55:51):
I don't know. There is too much crime.

Speaker 1 (01:55:52):
Let's move in to the next segment of our show,
What would Sister Peg Do? This is where we direct
you guys towards a resource, an article, a book, a
documentary something to give you more info about what we've
talked about in today's episode and this week for WWSPD,
I wanted to point out in light of our amazing president,
honestly he's crushing all aspects of his leadership. In light

(01:56:17):
of him, I guess cutting funding for the LGBTQ Suicide Hotline.
We wanted to point you to the LGBT National Coming
Out Support Hotline in light of the you know what
we talked about on this episode, and the hotline never
tells a caller whether they should come out, but they
can help with those big decisions and to provide care

(01:56:39):
in a safe space. And it's also available for people
of any age. You can call the hotline eight eight
eight out LGBT. That's eight eight eight ou t LGBT,
or go to LGBT Hotline dot org for more info,
to volunteer or to donate, and that will as always
be linked in our show notes and say in a

(01:57:00):
story forever in our WWSPD highlight on our Instagram page,
which is That's Messed Up Pod.

Speaker 4 (01:57:07):
And thank you for that.

Speaker 2 (01:57:08):
And next week we'll be doing the episode Risk Season four,
episode twelve, and kind of follows Warren Light's Rules four Letters,
season four, So.

Speaker 4 (01:57:17):
That's true, Free war Light Rule.

Speaker 2 (01:57:20):
An exciting day for all of us here at the
That's Messed Up Podcast with that coincidence. Listen, there's so
much murder. I felt like the post mortem was just
like and this scale.

Speaker 1 (01:57:31):
And there's this and what's going on. I'm like, I
can't even read. I can't even read. I gotta get outside.

Speaker 4 (01:57:38):
Oh, thank you guys so much for listening. We love you.
We'll see you next week.

Speaker 2 (01:57:50):
That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (01:57:53):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
it That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot Listen to
That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:58:05):
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
and follow us personally at Kara Klank and.

Speaker 4 (01:58:11):
At glitter Cheese.

Speaker 1 (01:58:13):
As always, please see our show notes for sources and
more information.

Speaker 2 (01:58:17):
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain.

Speaker 1 (01:58:22):
And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker,
Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song
and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and
everybody at Exactly Right Media.

Speaker 4 (01:58:38):
Dudu dun

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Kara Klenk

Liza Treyger

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