Closure (Part I & II)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
Done done.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
Yay, that's messed up an sv podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
We're here. My name is Lisa Trager and I'm Kara Klank.
And you know the drill on this pod. It's SVU,
it's true crime, it's guests, and it's chatting, and it's
movie reviews. And I did see one battle after another
and I fucking loved it good.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
I mean I have not heard one person not like it.
Eve very Quarterrarians of the world, and I'm I can't
wait to see it. It's just been gorgeous in New York.
I know, I'm sure it's been between seventy five and eighty.
I've been out in the streets, like I cannot sit
in a movie theater at the moment, and I live
by them. I smell the popcorn I want in, but
I can't. I have to enjoy every moment.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
The thing is is like it's two hours and forty minutes,
but you don't notice at all, Like it goes like it.

Speaker 4 (01:18):
It is well paced. It is a good movie. Like
and I hear.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Imax, I think I'm gonna do the Imax or the
thirty five millime. I'm gonna do something, you know that
that the people are saying to do.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
And I'm not even like a big pt Anderson fan.
Like I like some stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
I love that what you say nothing just like the
PTA of it all is funny to me. Yeah, the
New DA makes me laugh.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
I'm I'm on the PTA, but I'm not for the PTA,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (01:46):
Like, I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
I I don't know what Like I love Phantom Thread,
I didn't like Liquorice Pizza. I mean there's He's very
up and down for me, this movie rocks. It's really
like an It reminds me of just like a nineties
classic that we you could watch like a bunch of times.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
Case you haven't seen it yet either. He hasn't.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Oh oh, I also heard Teyana Taylor did like ninety
nine percent of her own stunts too.

Speaker 4 (02:09):
Is what I hear. They said, watch out Tom Cruise
is what I was. I'm hearing. She's good.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Her Her career trend trajectory has been so crazy.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Like yeah, I mean she came out as the baddest
bitch we've ever seen, and I guess continues to do it.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
I kind of. I think it's been quite consistent.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
No, but like music videos, reality and now like a big.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
Blockbuster like or not even blockbuster.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Big like you know sort of thing movies like I
don't know She's I had no idea Sean Penn was
in it, and then I saw the movie. I was
like yeah, and then I was like remembering. I was like,
oh man, he like is bad right, Like he he's
an example of My husband always has this theory of
pre too. I think I've talked about it on this podcast,

(02:56):
like if you got like in trouble for like beating
a woman or doing something bad before the Me Too era,
it's almost like they're like, well, we're not talking about
you anymore. Like if your secrets came up during ME Too,
then you got you know what I mean, like Harvey Weinstein.
But like we've let so many guys go.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Because it was like, girl, I was just getting my
eyebrows wax and Mariah Carey was playing so I just
was like to the girl, like, oh have you seen
Mariah's doing all this press. She's being more open and
silly than she usually is. So we start talking about Mariah.
She goes, I need to see her. I go she
does Christmas concerts every year, Like, what are you talking about?
See her very easily, but she goes, yeah, I love
concerts anytime.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
Who was it was? It was Chris Brown and someone else.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
She goes, I would never miss a Chris Brown show,
and then she said another person.

Speaker 4 (03:42):
And I had to be like, uh huh for sure?

Speaker 1 (03:45):
And I go, so, you like, she's like, r Kelly,
Chris Brown, I don't miss I.

Speaker 4 (03:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
I was like, I can't relate to that, but yeah,
you know I didn't.

Speaker 4 (03:56):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
My friend was telling me this, like they are any
nikey stuff. Oh my god, I've been following the Cardi
and Nikki stuff. Is fucking dark as hell. Anything's into it.
It's really fucking dark. Like I'm so surprised. I mean
not that I know that there isn't, but I'm like,
how is there not a publicist like or an agent

(04:17):
being like stop now, this is this is going nowhere.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
But I guess they're like unstoppable.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Well, people like Cardi because she's funny and cool, so
I think her like she's not going to listen. And
then a Nikki, I think she's like hard to work with.
Like I think the people that work around her with
her are probably not like people to let her know
what's up.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yeah, yeah, that's I mean.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
I will say when I met Nikki, she was very nice,
but that was for two minutes once.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
But drag Race maybe like works. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
I just yeah, on drag Race, I don't know if
she has They've definitely saying they've definitely like lip syncs
to her.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
But yeah, like yeah, I don't know. I just I
googled it and it said, oh, she was All Stars
seven in twenty twenty two. Okay, I guess she was.
She served as a judge for Snatch Game. It says,
but that's ai. I don't know if it's true. Why
don't you do minus AI? I don't understand. Why are
minus AI? I try to do that and it didn't work.

(05:18):
Oh it works for me? Yeah, I don't know. I
tried to do that. It doesn't whatever my settings are,
it's not working anyway. That beef is fucking wild. I
have been following what did you think of the new tailor.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
This is the thing, so I really like it. It
kind of is reminiscent to me of like old like
Abba and like ace of bass vibes for a little
bit of it, like I like it, so Opalite's my favorite.
I love the single The Fate of Ophelia. I think
the video is gorgeous. And then I rode to three
Taylor Swift Life of a Showgirl rides this weekend, so
I went to three Souls in a row that only

(05:59):
listened to this album, so obviously I love it, Like
writing to Canceled was awesome, Like I like Honey, I
like Father Figure, like I'm into it, but if you
rate them all, it's still in last place, like at
the real of Day, it doesn't beat the other ones,
and like I don't have an emotional connection to Fearless,

(06:19):
so maybe I like, but I'm like skipping up. I'm
like singing in the rain, like I am in the
streets fully doing choreo on the sidewalk, like I am
not calm.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
I really do like it.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
But.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
I listened to the I listened to the whole thing,
which I never do when albums first come out, Like
I usually like wait for the singles to hit me,
you know, and what is embarrassing at the end of
the day is really made me cringe, Like I was also.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
Cringing, like you're doing.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
A song about Olivia Rodrigo. This girl is fifteen years
younger than you. What are you doing?

Speaker 4 (06:54):
Is that? What that about father Figure is about Olivia Rodrigo.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Oh and Charlie XCX coke thing is just like I
hate how self referential she is and how slighted she
feels that anything. And it's like people are allowed to
talk shit about you, like you're such a fuckaire, You're
such a baby.

Speaker 4 (07:14):
It just it bothers me. I didn't like the movie
cash Grab of it All.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
I don't like how desperate she's being about beating Adele's record,
like I.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
Got all I'm hearing is like a.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
Lot of like that, like even from Swifties that are
just like the consumerism is getting a little bit like
fever pill.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
I have the tape and yeah, I got a tape
delivered yesterday. Oh way, a cassette. I ordered the cassette.
How are you gonna play it? Well, I wasn't gonna
play a record or a CD either, but it's tastes
up the smallest amount of space.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
Player. Oh cool, yeah, yeah, next time I bought like
one of those.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
I bought one of those like seven and one things
that's like a record player, tape CD radio you know.

Speaker 4 (07:55):
Anyway, I like it.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
I can play my old mixes from high school because
I'm a dinosaur.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
But oh but it is so fun.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
I I'm into wish like I'm into it, So I
don't know, but going after because it's just But then
someone mentioned like she's been depressed, like TTPD. She didn't
want to do press because it was about like all
these sad things. She's like, it's fun to see her
happy and excited. Yeah, I like the outfits. I like
all the things, but it's just.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Well the song Canceled was making me a little bit
confused too. But I'll say I only listened to it
like one time, and I mean kind of like you
have you ever been canceled?

Speaker 4 (08:33):
Has anybody around you been?

Speaker 2 (08:35):
It's about Blake, It's about how she likes her friends
canceled like she likes her friends on the edge, like
it's something else. And then I heard a theory that
it could be a reputation vault track that she added
to this, but I don't think she would do that.

Speaker 4 (08:48):
But I don't know. The Lamb the Sea. I like it,
it's fun. I like the video.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
I wish it wasn't all so serious in terms of
the opinions we have to have. But I think if
it is the worst album, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
But that's when you have.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
That many romantic song because it's it sounds like a
Weezer song to me, and I should love it.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
But if it wasn't about Charlie, I would like it.
I'm just embarrassed for like, I don't understand yeah, immaturity,
Like eventually you do have to escape this. I'm a
girl being picked on in high school mentality she has
for some reason. It's like very frustrating as a fan
to be a part of but my yeah album and.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
You are thirty five years old, so yeah yeah, And
then other people are like, so the man made you.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
But it's like you're allowed to like because someone's like, babe,
you shouldn't be gushing about a guy like this. You're
thirty five. Its it'd be cutef you're twenty two, and
it's like, well, she fell in love at thirty five,
so like, why can't she h, No, I don't care
about that gush.

Speaker 4 (09:47):
Stupid, But I don't care about the gushing.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
I mean a lot of dick illusions, Just a lot
of dick illusions on that wood song, like a lot.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
It's embarrassed singing about your husband, Like I don't get it,
but yeah, open lie fado Ophelia, give it to me,
put it in my veins. I also did go to
the dune Dune Diner. Oh my gosh, tell me so.
I had an amazing Saturday. I exit soul Cycle and

(10:16):
I have a text for my friend Sofia, who's in town.
We were supposed to meet up later in the day,
and she goes, I'm in the line. It's a two
hour wait get here, And I go, you know that
stressed me out a meeting.

Speaker 4 (10:28):
So I'm like, okay, I have to rush home.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
I have to shower, I have to get dressed, and
then I have to get to Rockefeller Center within two hours.

Speaker 4 (10:34):
But I did it and Rockefeller Center. Sorry, Matt Rogers. Song.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Way have you seen the new less culture? Says clip
that's been going viral with Malala. No, they're recording in
like a new room and Bowen goes, hey, so we're
not in our usual room. We did get booted for Malala.

Speaker 4 (10:53):
And then Matt.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Rogers goes, yeah, you know, between Matt Rogers and Malala,
you have to go with Malala and that's the role
of culture. And then they start talking and Bowen goes,
but if this was kickball, like I would be picked
before Malala. And Malala ripped that audio and made a
video of her at the gym doing leg day and
it's all like, you don't know what Malala's legs are
up to.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
Oh my god, I love that. I'm obsessed. That's so funny. Yeah,
it's so cool. So wait, so you have to get
to a rockefella set up and then what Yeah? So
I get there and it is. It was incredible.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
I hope someone from the Sview universe is listening. The
staff and people that were working were beyond. And you
also got free stuff. I didn't realize it was all
gonna be free. But you got like a free bagubag
that said like a lead Squad and it was a
mug and a choice of three hats. The food was free,
the cookie was free, the coffee, like everything's included.

Speaker 4 (11:51):
The fun little newspaper, the photo booth.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
They're so patient, they want you to look at all
the stuff, and then they stick to it. They're like, hey,
detect dives and they sit you down, and when you
do the trivia on the place mats, they're like, did
you get a break in the case? Like they treat
you like you're a detective. But then finally I asked
one that the waitresses. I go, listen, girl, this is incredible.
I go, you are all so friendly, You're so good

(12:15):
at your jobs and committed, Like is this a marketing company?

Speaker 4 (12:18):
Are you an outside events you? Are you an inshant? Like?

Speaker 2 (12:20):
What is this? Are you hired actors? Is this NBC Universal?
Who hired you? And she's stating characters. She wouldn't talk
to me, she wouldn't give me the scoop. But I'm
so curious because these people were elite as fuck. And
on the way out, if you filled out a survey,
you got a choice between another a T shirt or
a bracelet. I got the bracelet. What would Olivia Benson do?
But and then you can buy stuff, so like my

(12:43):
friend bought the T shirt and I got the socks.
I got to wear Law and Order socks Saturday night
and I the eggs tasted like chemicals, but I didn't
go I didn't go there for the breakfast.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah yeah, yeah that's a lot. And wait so you
sit down and eat at the diner.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yes, And not only that, like on the outside where
you see like the dun Dawn and the stuff, employees
are taking photos of you. They're like, you want some separate,
some together, whatever you need right this way. Like I've
just never seen such kindness from a free fan event,
Like I don't know, I was really impressed. Yeah that's cool,

(13:19):
and oh my god, I cut the photo. But there
was like like a bunch of hanging plates and one
of the plates said I just know stuff iced tea,
And it was like all these.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
Cool look at me, I just know stuff.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, it was like a lot of photos an ode
to Benson.

Speaker 4 (13:37):
And if I knew.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
It was all that, I would have like flown in
for it, Like if I you know, like next year
in the ball, if I know they're doing something for
season twenty eight, I'm coming, I'm gonna fly out.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
Because it's like it.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Was just a class act, like even without like seeing
any of the slabs or anything, like they just really
were so fan friendly.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
But did you see any because like we had a
listener that sent us like Marishka signing her thing and
then she spelled her name wrong and she was like
it's fine.

Speaker 4 (14:09):
It's it's two ends, but it's fine.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
She goes no girl, and she gave her another poster
and was like, you got it. You should like speak
up for spelling your name right, and like then they.

Speaker 4 (14:18):
Took out a picture and everything. So I was wondering.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
I'm sure she came for like an hour or two
and then maybe other people came.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
I was wondering if you saw anybody. No, there was
no like, no one was there signing.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
And that's what I mean, like just on its face,
it's like such an actually cool fan event where you
do not have to spend a dollar. Wow, you know
what I mean, and you get all this stuff like
I can't wait to wear my done Dune diner hat.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
You know.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
So if you guys have any scoop, I'm like, who
put that together?

Speaker 4 (14:49):
Wait?

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Did anyone respond what our merch should be? Have we
got any responses? It is a due day. I don't
think we're gonna have a holiday merch.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
That episode only came out today and so we've gotten
a few, but it's a lot of stuff where people
are like, oh, Benson's haircuts. Throughout the years, it's like
somebody has done that, or somebody said wood room blinds
and cement room bars, which we do sell pens on
our live shows.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
That one is what are our pens?

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Our pens are ambitious and tipsy, cement room bars and
dumb bitch bitch.

Speaker 4 (15:23):
So I get them, dumb bitch.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
I think we should get the dumb bitch socks back
in rotation too. Would people wear like just a dumb bitch? No,
those socks are awesome. Let's just let's just do dumb
bitch socks and Christmas colors. I don't even think we
need to do it in Christmas colors. Great, people are
just gonna buy it for each other. Yeah, we're we're
doing dumb bitch socks again. As we never sold them
on the internet, did we on the show?

Speaker 3 (15:47):
No?

Speaker 2 (15:47):
We only sold them live at live shows. Great, we
got our merch. It's dumb bitch socks. Put them in
your cart.

Speaker 4 (15:54):
I'm gonna think a little bit harder. So if anybody does, I'm.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
Gonna think, well, by the time this episode comes out,
we know, but it's like a few I know I'm
going to think today I've been like I've been a
little swamp, but like I want to think of something
because I think that. And well, we were getting a
lot of ideas, like people were like, please make a
rape whistle and I was like I would love to,
and they were like, or like make make a defense
like a knife that says.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Do you have children, detective? And I was like, I
don't know about Like, let's send an email. Like right,
I'm sending an email right now. Can we have weapons?
Can we make what?

Speaker 1 (16:25):
They're gonna say, no, one weapons, But I bet a
rape whistle is going to be okay, I'm just predicting.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
Well with the rape whistle, say you did what you
needed to to survive. Yeah, your god, that's so good. No,
it's not.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
No, not that it's like you did the only thing
you had to do you survived or like some I
mean that's okay. Wait, we got to think about that.
We gotta we gotta work shop it.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
But oh wait wait, So because this weekend was huge
obviously with the Dunda and that inner and the Taylor
swift of it, and I had six spots.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
And uh and New York weather was popping. I mean,
it's really a confluence of events.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
You know.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
I went to Union Square did I buy six prints
from a woman where I have note? And she goes, so,
what's up? You're just walking around? I go, yeah, I
have spot pay ears one hundred dollars.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
Do you want the money or not?

Speaker 1 (17:18):
Bitch, here's a pair of dumb bitch sucks. Stop trying
to downseell me.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
I know it was crazy, but this is one of
the best things that I've been waiting for my whole life.
Did happen to me? I'm walking to my spot and
I hear my name. I turn around and there's two
young boys, like young men, sitting and one of them.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
Goes, hey, you used to babysit me. Shut up, buck up.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
He's twenty one years old now and I baby sat
him in like twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen when I was
in New York.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Wait, back up nanny, Yeah, and ran down to the
backup nanny kids.

Speaker 4 (17:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
So it was it was the family, because there's two
families that like two boys like that. I really loved
the kids, and this was one of them and his
dad's an author and was a professor at Columbia and
their apartment. I'm like, do you guys still love the apartment?
He goes yeah, and he's like, and I live with
my parents.

Speaker 4 (18:10):
I'm not good. Like that apartment was incredible. But they
were this great family.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
He did ballet and like they took the train and
they would break dance and like, I don't know, they
were just like an amazingly smart, eccentric, cool family that
got along and were hip and cool. And his friend
was nice, and so we chatted. But then his friend
had a little book car. He's like, hey, do you
want a shot? And I go, well, I'm a grown woman,
so it would be really crazy if I started drinking

(18:34):
from your bookardi in the street.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
But and then we.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Talked for a little longer, and I could tell he
was like over and I go, I'm sorry, this is
like longer a conversation than you wanted. But I really
like loved your family. I thought you guys were so
cool and like loving towards each other. And he goes,
you were a really great babysitter. He goes, you showed
us mean girls and see him punk clips. And I
was like, okay, that was twenty fourteen. Me like that

(18:58):
makes sense, okay, and he's like my sister still really
loves mean girls, and so it was like really cute.
And I followed him and his friend on Instagram and
he's a like an artist.

Speaker 4 (19:08):
He makes sculptures and they're really cool. So it's really exciting.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
That's so funny because I was just yesterday I ran
across an email from like some old mom I babysat for,
just when I was like searching for something else. It
was like, I wonder what those kids are up too,
Like so many kids I baby step for are grown
adults now, and I wonder what they're like. But that's crazy.
I cannot believe because I'm curious what all these kids

(19:32):
thought of me. You know, like, yes, I loved well
your Your reference to ballet obviously made me think of
Oscar and I wanted to tell you that it was
ballet going he's he actually said the other day, because
you know he's in a. It's in a it's a
combo hip hop ballet, he goes. I don't really like

(19:53):
the moves for ballet. I like the moves for hip hop.
And I was like, okay, dog I guess you're gonna
be a hip hop dancer.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
But so is there hip hop classes?

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Well yes, but this is a this is a half
and half that he's in right now, so he half
the classes ballet and like then he does hip hop,
but it's it's very light hip hop, like they're doing
K pop Demon Hunters. But he has decided on his
Halloween costume and hold on, I want to send you
the link in the chat because he like he was

(20:23):
going back and forth between being the different K pop
Demon Hunters, but now he's gonna be Glinda from Wicked.
And the thing is, though, he spotted the costume that's
from for Good, so no one's gonna know who he is. Really,
He's just gonna look like a princess, which is fine,

(20:44):
but like you can't explain that to Licophore. It's like, hey,
this is actually like the sequel that's like not out yet,
you know, but it doesn't like the pink dress. Maybe
I should show it to him as an option and
be like you, this is from Wicked. This is from
you know, the first one, because he really likes this
purple one and we've already bought him sparkily crocs to

(21:05):
go with it, and he's like, and I have a
crown that matches it, And I go, what crown? And
this morning he goes, want me to show you the
crown and he had it, he pulled it out. I go,
you're right, that matches perfectly. So now all I'd have
to get him is this and then like a scepter.

Speaker 4 (21:18):
So I don't know.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
I mean, I think he's just gonna I'm also like,
I'm also just like low key nervous that he's gonna
get a lot of kids. It's gonna be the first
time that kids at school are gonna go, why are
you dressed like a Why are you dressed like a girl?

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Like?

Speaker 1 (21:31):
You know what I mean? Because he wears that stuff
around the house. No one has ever said anything to
me wears it. What do you think what do you
think his response will be.

Speaker 4 (21:38):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
I don't know, Like he is such a weird, like
intuitive dude. I'm just kind of like, I wonder if
he's gonna be like, yeah, no, And I said, so
you're gonna wear this to school? I was like, this
is what you're gonna wear for the parade, And everyone
at school is gonna is gonna ask you who you are,
and you're gonna say I'm Glinda, and he's like yep, yep,
Like he's so excited about it. So I'm like, great,

(22:00):
you know, I'm like, but I just like I have
really been.

Speaker 4 (22:03):
It's gonna be the moment that changes his life forever.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
I've been at his school before and heard kids go, yo, bro,
that's gay, and I've literally shot looks to fourth grade kids,
and so I'm just making sure. I'm just like, you know,
I'm just like tentative of like I hope no one
says anything mean to him, you know, but he is
four and he's.

Speaker 4 (22:22):
Gonna they might. But he also seems like he's above it.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
I know, he's probably like not gonna give a fuck
to be honest, Like I hope.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
So, but he needs to pick a costume of a
movie that's been out already. That's the big problem. The
dress doesn't matter. It's like, bitch, the movie's not out,
you can't I know. But he just saw it and
he like loves the purple, you know what I mean,
he could just have the dress.

Speaker 4 (22:46):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, because if he wears the little if he wears
the pink one. Dude, there's the consumerism is crazy. There's
like an oz dust ballroom Glinda outfit, like I don't
even remember what she was fucking wearing. There's a little
stripey number that she wears when they all get there.
There's and then there's the pink one, and it's like wild.
There's so many costumes and they make the Glinda one

(23:07):
for adults. I almost accidentally bought him an adult one yesterday.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
Are you guys dressing up or are you doing? I
think we like to do.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
I think we have to because we're doing a trunk
or treat for our kids' school. So it will depend
on what the theme of the car is, like you
know what I mean, if we do like a Pokemon car,
we might like dress up like that because it's the
parents are running it. So we'll see, we will see.
I you know, I'm normally throw something together at the
last minute, menuto, so we'll see what happens. I do

(23:37):
love our listener down in Orlando who gave me this
beautiful blonde wig that it feels like that dictates a
lot of my I'm like, okay, I'm Dolly this year,
or like I feel like I could be tricksy, Like
I don't know, this wig kind of works for like
any big blonde characters.

Speaker 4 (23:51):
What are you gonna be something?

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, well, I'm performing in Baltimore, so you guys will
see I'm gonna wear a different costume every night. Oh wait,
what's the venue in Baltimore. I'm playing the Port Comedy Club.
I was their last time. It's sam by the water Town. Okay,
I was. It's gonna be fun.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
I was like, please don't say Magoobi's House of Joke
because it's just that the name of that place kills me.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
So I'm gonna wear a costume Friday and one Saturday.
But I did buy them from Dolskill. So they're the
shortest sluttiest things I've ever worn. But I will be
wearing them at the show.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Oh so you're not gonna say You're not going to
say this is for Baltimore.

Speaker 4 (24:29):
I know, I kind of wanted to be surprised. I
guess it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
No, say after say after you can tell me off
Mic and tell them after Sorry, you got to go
to Baltimore if you want to see what slutty outfits
Lisa's being I hope you're being like a slutty laboo boo.

Speaker 4 (24:41):
That'll be kind of funny, all right.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Well, if you want to know more of Lisa's dates,
go to That's Messed Up Live.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Tell your friends in the Amsterdam, Paris, Dublin, London come
see me.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Or tell your friends, yes, tell your euro friend to
get to your ass their asses to see. There's more
Americans over there than ever. People are fleeing. Tell your
friends to go to see Lisa. If you want to
catch Lisa live on the road.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
I'm rehauling my internet presence I'm doing. I'm using this
new site called punch Up Live. I'm rehauling my website.
Just go to my bio. Please come see me live.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Go to the Glitter Cheese Instagram bio. That is where
you get the information. Also, if you haven't given my
other little pod that I do with Jackie Zabrowski called
Who's the Bitch A listen, follow us over there. We're
getting wild calls all the time and giving advice, So
come on over and give us a little We've got

(25:42):
a lot.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
It's cute.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
There's a lot of like people that are like have
followed her for a while. Or have followed that's messed
up for a while, and so they're merging and it's
cute little it's a cute little community.

Speaker 4 (25:51):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
So speaking of community, I'm walking, I'm walking the streets
and I see a Corgi that is like the ansomous
little boy, like with such a pepinist step. Like I
am looking at this Corgi being like, wow, what a
happy little guy.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
And the woman walking the corky goes glitter cheese and
is a listener of the pod.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
So, oh my god, shout out, I recognize each other. Well, no,
I just was like a fan of the corgy. But
she was great and she was going to a dog bar.
So I'm gonna start going to this dog bar.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Oh hell yeah, that sounds like a great a great
way to meet new friends, I'd say too. Uh, not
that you need new friends, but the people that are
hanging out at a dog bar, I will say. Because
you were asking if we got any suggestions for merch,
somebody did write in and go, why don't you call
your listeners badge bunnies? And I'm like, I don't know.
Those are people who want to fuck cops, Like, I
don't think we can do that.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
It's cute. We like the name. We love a badge bunny.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
I just don't think that most of you are actual
badge bunnies. You know. No, they're not messy bitches. Should
that be what our girls are called? Because messed up
and bitch? Oh mess messy, dumb bitch, dumb messy dunban.
Wait wait, there's a show coming to New York called
Messy White Gaze and I saw it.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
This is not a paid advertisement.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
I saw a staged reading of it at Dynasty in
LA like literally the actors holding scripts and I was dying.
I mean they're not sitting down. They were acting it
out but holding their scripts. And it was so fucking funny.
And it's in New York. Go see it, you guys.
Drew Drogi from the Mind of Drew Drogi one of
my faves. So funny, go see it. It's like a
fucking hilarious, like murder mystery with a bunch of like

(27:33):
gays at brunch.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Speaking of I wonder if okay, So, so you know,
I like all my fucking movie games. So someone messaged
me and went, I bet this movie is good for
your movie game. It's star studded and it just got
on Amazon and it's called The Ten but it's Ken
Marino and David Wayne wrote it and it's their set.
The movie right after wet hot American Summer, and it's
about the Ten Commandments. It's a bunch of short movies

(27:55):
about the Ten Commandments. Paul Rudwinona Rider, Jessica albak Ettion Well,
John Hamm, my friend, Oh my god, Leave Schreiber, Adam Brody.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
It's like Star stud Ashida Jones, I mean.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Justin Thireau, like Jason Sudacas, Joe la Truglio, Oliver Platt.

Speaker 4 (28:13):
It is.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
It keeps going and going, and I really really liked it.
Geni Garoffalo and I wonder if you would like it
because it's wet hot American humor. It's so it's really
fucking funny. And he said it was impurgatory and unable
to be released for years, and now it's on Amazon
and I watched it and I really liked it.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Okay, I'm gonna watch I'm gonna see I Jared. I'll
I'll watch this with Jared because I bet he'll love
it too. All right, let's get started. Longest intro ever
uh and uh, yeah, we've got a great episode for
you guys. Don't go anywhere, Okay, we I'm excited about

(28:54):
this one. This one is definitely lodged in my brain
as one of my early s few episodes. But we
are doing episode an episode from season one episode ten
called Closure Part one, and then we're also going to
do Closure Part two, which is season two episode three.
These episodes came out one in January and one in

(29:15):
November of the year two thousand, so an eleven month,
like you know, laps in terms of viewers.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
And we've never done an episode that I don't think.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
I guess we did cover Born Psychopath and like Postgraduate Psychopath,
which had like a ten year spam, but this is
the only one that has like a little time jump
that we're doing in the same episode. So it's I
think it's kind of fun and I love a season
one episode. So we open on a blonde with wet
hair sitting in her bedroom smoking a sig. It's kind

(29:47):
of giving Carrie Bradshaw, but this is SVU, so I
don't think she's overthinking a comment for mister Big like
it's not good. There's a timestamp that reads eleven seventeen
PM and she up her landline.

Speaker 4 (30:01):
It's like this.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Big ass brick landline phone from two thousand and she
slowly dials nine to one one. We can see there's
a big bruise on her cheek when the camera kind
of pans around to her other side and she tells
the operator, I've just been raped. Cut to a pile
of clothes on the floor with a beeper going off,
and who reaches for it but the beeper king himself

(30:22):
Dennis Duffy aka Detective Brian Cassidy aka New York Magazine
cover boy Dean Winters, and he's in bed with Benson.
It's like, this is everything Casey forgot. He's not muted
and just gave us a big woo. I love that
so much. It was a ercle sexual No, keep it in,

(30:45):
I want it. Casey was like.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Nah uh he yes, yeah, seeing them in bed together.
We've never seen Benson in bed again with anyone.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
Well, I said that we don't see her after we
saw her in a shower towel.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
No, but we see her in bed in season twenty
three when she has after having sex with Aiden Quinn's character,
who we hate because he groomed her as a teen, yeah,
and like that's that's happening. Yeah, yeah, Like but it's
twenty three seasons later they're like, all right, let's put
her in bed again, you know.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
But like that, we.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Don't get any like sexy stuff we see or maybe
leaving a date we have her like you know, getting
a kiss on a forehead from Tucker. Like we do
not see her actively like naked implications of nudity. I mean,
she's like not wearing a shirt for sure.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
And not to give too much away, but you know,
he's obsessed and she's like, theybe I used you for
sev eight, Get out of my face.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
So they're both like kind of scrambling whose beeper is it.
I'm also noticing when Cassidy reaches for the pager that
I see a tattoo of like a long horn or
it might be a long horn skull, but it's like
it's on his I think it's a long horn. It's
like some kind of cow with big horns, and it's

(32:04):
on his arm. And then there's also a long horned
skull hanging on the wall of their apartment when him
live eventually move in together. Like many seasons later, So
what's the story? Like, I don't think that he's he's
like from New York. Like, I don't know if there's
like a Texas connection with this man. But he's got
a tattoo. Maybe it's like Dean Winters actually has that tattoo.
Like it's like they have to work in uh maloney's tattoos.

(32:27):
But anyway, I just clocked the Longhorn. I'd like to
know what's going on there.

Speaker 4 (32:32):
Anyway. It's Benson's beeper.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Going off and she's like, gotta go, and he's like
that was incredible and she's like, don't get used to
it while she ties a robe on and then boom.
It's the credits, the most concise cold open of all time,
exactly one minute, including in the criminal justice system, like
so concise, and then the gang in the opening credits
in season one is only Benson, Stabler, Cragan, and Belzer,

(32:55):
a skeleton crew Jeffries.

Speaker 4 (32:56):
Isn't there no one else?

Speaker 1 (32:58):
So now Live is at the er at the top
of act one and the timestamp is twelve forty two
and she meets Harper Anderson played by Tracy Pollin, who
she's an actress. She was on Family Ties in the eighties,
and there she met Michael J. Fox, and she's been
married to Michael J. Fox ever since the meeting him there.
But then a lot of what I read about her

(33:19):
said she took a step back to concentrate on her
marriage and her children and whatever. She's acted on and
off since then. She was actually nominated for an Emmy
for this performance. She doesn't win, but she's nominated for
a Guest Actor Emmy. And I was looking at her IMDb.
She's played Natalie Holloway's mom twice in two separate movies,

(33:39):
and she's in an episode of Inventing She's in an
episode of Inventing Anna, which is like a recent thing
that I think a lot of people have seen. And
she has a TV holiday movie coming out soon. It
seems so she dabbles, okay, but I think she's great
in this episode, worth the nom She's been waiting for
forty five minutes in the hospital. She just wants Benson
to call her Harper and like talk to her like
a person. She briefly describes her assaults as he grabbed

(34:02):
her ankles, her wrists, hit her in the face, vaginally
penetrated her, finished on her stomach and then wiped it
off with one of her shirts, and then he made
her take a shower, and then Benson has to go
like convince a doctor to give her a rape kit.
He's like, I'm busy, and she's like, are they stable? Okay,
let's get to the rape kit. So you could tell
even from season one, like whether it was Benson or
Mrshca Hargeta, I don't know who was like first at

(34:24):
this what like getting rape kits done and eventually processed
was like a passion of the character and the person
and the actor in real life. So we see all
the photos being taken of the injuries, the oral swab,
et cetera.

Speaker 4 (34:39):
Rape kits, Chiller like, I don't get it. There's gotta
be a better way.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
I mean that member we read about the woman that
tried to do at home rape kits, It's like those
are never going to survive chain of custody. But the
timestamp is now one oh three am, and you know
they're trying to take us through. This is the tenth
episode to the show ever, so like even though we've
seen this many many other times before, this is the
first time we're seeing them do an episode like this

(35:06):
where this is like the night in the life of
a victim of sexual assault, like which I think we
have to show respect for them doing this.

Speaker 4 (35:13):
This is two thousand, like a bunch of shows weren't
doing that.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
And it's a slow, work paced episode, Like it's definitely different.
I wonder if they had pushed you know, it's like
it's not a bottle of it, but it's different. It's
like different paste than a lot of s you yes,
and the rape Kits scene is longer than most I
would say, though, is just shann Asassman episode Yeah with

(35:36):
the gray that like really takes you through it, but
it's it's it's.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
A long scene.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Jennifer Love Hewett episode Behave, Like I think they take
you through it, like you know, they take you through
it a lot to show you because I think the
show's goal has always been to like show that when
people are like just report it, go to the hospital,
it's like, look at what everybody has to go through, Like,
look at what you have to go through this like
invasive exam after it's hours after you've just been assaulted,
and there's a doctor that barely wants to do it,

(36:03):
and you know what I mean, so anyway, I think
this is probably one of the first times a television
show on mainstream like network TV is showing this is
what a rape victim goes through.

Speaker 4 (36:15):
Like maybe they did something like this on ER.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
I'm not like an ER completist, but this is you know,
they're doing it here, and I think it's like, we
got to give them props because it's twenty twenty five
years have gone by and not as much has changed
in the world of sexual assaults as we would have hoped.
But they're doing what they can. At SVU. As the
doctor's doing the vaginal swab on Harper, Benson's like, okay,

(36:37):
well we need a UV light to look for the
semen on her stomach and the doctor's like, yeah, we
don't have it. And they go back and forth being like, no,
it looks like this and I know what it is,
but we don't have it, and like Harper's like, oh,
Like she gets really irritated cause it's like you're kind
of talking about her, like she's not there and that
it's just like this piece of equipment that you need,
and you know you can tell that it's like upsetting her.
So anyway, two eleven am, the doctor gives her a

(36:59):
pill to prevent pregs and see, don't forget you could
get pregnant. She has to take more of this, more
pills later than they tell her STD test results. We
back in twenty four hours. Don't forget you could get
an STD. Then she has to retest in three months,
and then in six months because it could take that
long for an STD to show up. This isn't going
to just be over after you tell the police and
they go grab the guy you know.

Speaker 4 (37:21):
Live tells her like, don't worry.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
The state pays for all this, and Live needs her
formal statement, and she's like, but we could do it
tomorrow if you want. And Harper's like, I want this
to be over with, So they go down to the station.
Stabler is now talking to the doctor who tells her
there's no real signs of trauma and like the blow
to her face could have been much worse, and it's
like and he goes the guy used as little force
as possible and explains to Stabler, like how he made

(37:46):
her shower, so the chances of DNA are slim so
and it's like any punch in the face.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Could be worse. What are you talking about. It's like
anyone can game into our home. It's like, t like,
why are you downplaying a thing? Yeah, to do the
punch to her face could be worse.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
She got punched in the face, like, yeah, her face
be ripped off, Like could There's a million ways anything
could be worse, you know. But then Harper had earlier
mentioned that she had a uniform police officer with her,
but he wasn't with her when Benson walked up because
she found him annoying and sent him to the cafeteria.
So no, that UNI comes back and Stabler's like, never
leave a rape victim alone. I don't care what she says.

(38:22):
It's like, well, she did hate you, so I don't know.
And then the UNI's like, I'll vouch for the rape kit.
Benson and Stable are going to get her statement. So
now there are three forty five and we're in wood
room blinds with Harper. She's like, there was a street
fair outside my apartment, so I put earplugs in and
I think that this all happened on Halloween because we
find out later it was a Halloween parade and she

(38:43):
woke up to a guy standing there staring at her.
He told her to shut his her eyes and said
he had a gun. She said, it happened so slowly,
like sometimes people are like it all happened so fast,
and she's like, it happened so slowly, like she looked
at the clock, and she said, the whole thing took
forty two minutes, which actually I thought was like the
entire assault, and I was like, oh my god, no,
But it's like from the time he came in to

(39:04):
the time he left, it was forty two minutes. He
took her nightgown and shoved it over her head, but
like kept it there so that it was like stuck
and she couldn't see. And then he took her ring.
He tried to kiss her. She jerked away. That's when
he hit her. She starts in with the regrets, like
I should have kicked him, I should have run, and
lives like obviously doing her thing, where she's like, you

(39:25):
couldn't have done any of that if he had a gun, Like,
don't you know she has so many details like that,
you remember, She's like he thrust five times and he said,
is this how you like it?

Speaker 4 (39:36):
And then he, you know, ejaculated on her.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
Stomach, and then he made her shower and he said
please when he was having her get in the shower,
and like the whole time she walked to the bathroom,
she says, her arms are still over her head, like
trapped in her nightgown. And then he ran the water,
asked her if it was too hot, adjusted it so
that it was right, and then he took off her
nightgown and he washed her, told her she had pretty hair,

(39:58):
touched her stomach, touched every thing, she says, and then
handed her a towel and a robe and told her
to get on the floor and look away and count
to twenty. And she said, I'm not going to insult
you by asking you not to call the police. And
then she goes, thoughtful, wasn't it. So now it's four
thirty six am and Harper has a boyfriend and he

(40:18):
doesn't have keys to her place, but she has keys
to his interesting and then she tells She tells them, well,
I never saw the gun, but he held it to
my head when he caught me looking at him in
the shower. And then she describes him tall, thin, white
sandy hair, cold eyes, how tall, tallish age and she goes,
my age. You know, she goes someone I he looked

(40:40):
like someone I would know, like someone I would hang
out with, but she didn't know him. And they're like,
anything weird happened lately, Like strangers in your neighborhood, weird
phone calls. She's like, no, nothing like that. This guy
like wasn't nervous. He was you know, he didn't seem
like he was fumbling or anything. He was also wearing
cologne and she said it was subtle, not she stuff.

(41:00):
And she said she could absolutely identify him in a lineup.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
And this is.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
A man now who she's seen him like, she saw
him and he's not wearing a mask. She's seen him
standing over her bed. Then she doesn't see him for
a while. Then she sneaks a peek in the shower,
but she has seen him. And so five oh one
am Harper is describing the ring that he took. It
was her grandma's. It was very rare, platinum branch with
diamond leaves. And he took her wallet as well, and

(41:27):
he must have taken the T shirt that he used
to clean up the.

Speaker 4 (41:31):
Jizz on her stomach, and then it was her. It
took you a second to figure out what word you
are going to use in there. I know jizz I picked.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
Jizz I'm sorry I chose jizz I chose violence. And
then she said it was her Rosie the Riveter t shirt,
which is kind of like a sad irony that like,
Rosie the Riveter is like, we can do it, and
that's like the shirt he uses to like clean up
the aftermath of him violating her. But it was also
Rosie the Riveter was Rosi's first Halloween costume and it.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
Was really cute anyway.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Five point nine we find out that Harper waits tables
and when then's table asks her what laundromat she uses,
she like at this point, she like puts her head
on the table and she's sighing, like she looks so tired.
She's like, my laundromat, Like what are we Like? They're
combing through every detail of her life, Like she has
now been poked, prodded and questioned for six hours. So

(42:21):
now it's six thirteen in the morning. They are finally done.
She's gonna have them take her to her boyfriends. She
hasn't even told him yet. She doesn't know what to say.
Seven or one.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Books too, and it's kind of in the real crime too,
but that like the people around you don't know how
to deal with it or like yeah, of course you know, yeah,
yeah awful. That's why it's annoying when it's like all
about the guy's future, not about the victims.

Speaker 4 (42:46):
It's like so like Fox.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
You up, yeah, yeah, yeah, the whole the whole thing
is very dehumanizing from start to finish.

Speaker 4 (42:56):
And I mean, I also wish there was a better way.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Uh So at seven oh one, Live walks Harper up
to her boyfriend's door and is like, Okay, we're going
to go search your apartment. The state's going to pay
to change the locks. A counselor is going to call
to set up an appointment. She gives Harper her page
your number and says call any time day or night.
It doesn't matter if I'm midfuck with Cassidy. This bitch
is going to answer, you know. Harper smiles at Live

(43:20):
before she goes inside, like obviously, like you know, it's
only the tenth episode, but Live has a connection with
the victims, and she's going to for the next twenty
thirty years at Harper's apartment. Now, Stabler and Cassidy are
already at work. The perp got in through a window
on the fire escape and it looks like the lock
has been busted for a long time, and they start
going through the timeline and immediately you want to kill

(43:42):
both of these men. Okay, they're like, all right, if
her nightgown's over her head, how did she see the clock?
And Benson's like before the nightgown? Like what, like this
is not hard. Then they find like a half smoked
joint and suddenly Cassidy and Stabler thinks she got high
with her rapist before it all happened like, and they're like, well,
she didn't ment in the pot at all, and it's
like case closed.

Speaker 4 (44:02):
She made it up.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
She didn't mention smoking a joint, so she's making it
up and they think maybe he They haven't found her underwear,
so they think maybe like he kept it as a trophy.
But then in the bathroom, lives like, well the curtain's wet,
and Cassidy goes but the soap isn't and lives like, no,
I know where you're going with this and you're wrong,
and he goes, come on, you know, this is what

(44:24):
happens with staged rapes. Women will wet the shower curtain
but not the soap. And I'm like, do all women
take a shower after a staged rape? I guess if
you were actually staging a rape, you would, because you
would like want to say that that's why there was
no DNA, but like, I don't know, I don't think
that this is a smoking gun. Yah, it's not a
smoking gun of any kind. And then Cassidy puts a

(44:46):
curling iron up to Live's head and goes, what does
this feel like? And she goes a curling iron, he
goes a gun. I don't get what you are trying
to prove. If she thought it was a gun, it
was a gun in her head and she was terrified.
Like whether he was faking the gun or not has
nothing to do with Harper. And so they're all like stablers,
like no seminal fluid, no vaginal trauma. It's like, okay,

(45:06):
so because he wasn't as rough as possible during this
sexual assault, he could get away with it. Like what
are we talking about?

Speaker 2 (45:15):
I just don't get how that's even, Like that's like
thousands of years of conditioning and brain stormy, Like why
would your instinct always be the question of victim of assault.

Speaker 4 (45:24):
Yeah, or you wouldn't in any other crime. It's like yeah,
and you're the detectives that are supposed to do it, Like,
I don't know what you see. It happen all the time,
so why are you shocked?

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah, It's like if you walked into a robbery victim's
house and they still had something expensive there and you're like, well,
they didn't take this. This might be right, this might be staged.
Like it's like all bad, it's all bad faith. So
there are stablers like no semen, no vaginal trauma. And
Cassidy's like maybe she was high and paranoid, it's like,
and spent seven hours describing it in detail, and Live goes, well,

(45:56):
this morning she said she felt like it never happened.
Is that what you wanted to hear? And goes no,
but maybe that's the truth. So you know, fuck Cassidy.
And he's not getting any points with Benson. I'll say
that after they just woke up from fucking earlier. So
at the precinct, Cassidy's eating Halloween candy out of a
little Halloween bucket, little pumpkin bucket and explaining why it's

(46:19):
his job to doubt rape victims, and Craigan insists, well,
for now, it's an open case and we got to
work it.

Speaker 4 (46:25):
So no fingerprints, no DNA.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
This guy's five eight, white, sandy haired, right handed, so
very not specific, like you know, that's many men in
the city, many men anywhere. He smelled rich, is what
Benson adds. Let's check his mo against other cases. This
guy asked her if she liked it, said please. In
his fantasy, he's the perfect gentleman. So they're gonna check
pawn shops and vendors at the Halloween carnival. Check pawn

(46:51):
shops for the ring, check vendors at the Halloween carnival
for like people who have priors I don't know. And
then Craigan tells liv you got to ask Harper about
the pot. And then he's like, the pot makes me
nervous and lives annoyed. She's like, we're not gonna bust
her on that, like and this is so two thousand,
Like pot is so much more not an issue now,
but like in two thousand, it was still like you could.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
Just throw people in jail for that.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
So at Harper's boyfriend's place, we meet her boyfriend Benji
spelled with a JY and he is played by Roger
Bart who is a Tony Award winner in Tons of Stuff,
and he's the freaky conservative talk show host who rapes
Anna Schlumski in the episode twenty five acts that we've covered.
So he's got us season one and then he's got
like a way like a teen season I think later.

(47:35):
So Benji's pissed, he wants to kill the guy who
did this, and Benson's like, I think what Harper needs
from you is unconditional acceptance. So now we're at Harper's
restaurant and they ask her about the pot, like, of
course she's at work the next day, Like, work's not
going to give you time off to like process your
trauma that's happened to you, at least not in the
year two thousand.

Speaker 4 (47:54):
So why they ask her about the pot? Why didn't
you mention it?

Speaker 1 (47:57):
And she's like, listen, smoking pot's not part of my routine,
Like I had a job interview. I was just trying
to mellow out. And she's very bothered by the question,
and rightfully so. So now at Harper's apartment, the locksmith
is changing the locks and the super is like the
super goes, I mean, nothing like this ever happens in
this building, Like, yeah, we found a body in a
dumpster once, but never anything like this. And it's like, okay,

(48:18):
I'm still a body in a Dumpster's not great, you know,
Like he's acting like this is like this is a
classy building. But the super has no information. He hasn't
seen anybody weird.

Speaker 4 (48:27):
He knows nothing.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
So now we're talking to an sbu classic, a funny
old lady who didn't see anything but knows somebody who did.
And she points up to an apartment across the street
where we see a sketchy.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
Man peering out from behind a curtain.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
So clearly some neighborhood peeping tom that everybody knows about.
And that wasn't my community back in New York, and
I kind of wish it was. So they go to
that guy's apartment is named Sam Lardner, and he's got
three previous call ins for trespassing. I don't know if
that means he ever got arrested or anything, but the
cops have been called on him. He tells them, oh,
I don't know who Harper is, and they're like, oh,

(49:01):
she lives on the second floor across the way, and
he's like, third floor, Like he corrects them, so obviously, pervert.

Speaker 4 (49:07):
Says, what you know? Like they tricked him.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
He knows exactly where she lives, and when he sees
that they might be accusing him, he admits, Okay, it
wasn't me.

Speaker 4 (49:15):
I saw everything.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
I saw the guy climb the fire escape, the previous
tenant broke the lock.

Speaker 4 (49:20):
Creepy that you know that.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
He describes the attack exactly as Harper describes it, and
he has no answer when they ask him, why didn't
you call the police, And he can't describe the purp
and why because his eyes were on Harper the entire
time that she was being assaulted, because he's a fucking freak.

Speaker 4 (49:35):
So not call for hell? I just can't. I can't.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Obviously, the cops are staring at him like you're a
fucking heartless freak.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
How could you just watch this.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Woman be attacked and basically get a boner and not
call anyone?

Speaker 4 (49:50):
And he's like, what are you gonna do to me?

Speaker 1 (49:51):
And Benson goes the same thing you did for her
and turns around, We're gonna do fucking nothing to you.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
You're not worth our time.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
But back at the house, Craigan asks the gang if
Harper seems like the kind of gal who would buy
five hundred dollars of hand packed meats, and done done,
someone has used her credit card. So Munch brings in
the perp and looky, looky, who it is. It's Baby
McGrath aka Terry Serpico, friend.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
Of the pod who we just had last week. We
did not mean to back.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
To back his Baby Days episodes, but we did. As
they're hauling Baby McGrath off to an interrogation room, Cassidy
has a like you left your scrunchy at my place
moment with live and like hands her her watch. Yeah,
it's like a it's like a it's a watch. But
she's like put she goes, oh yeah, thanks, and like

(50:42):
puts it on and you could tell she does not
want to talk to him, and he shoots a shop
for another date and she's like, babe, we went to Maloney's.

Speaker 4 (50:48):
We got drunk.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
I wanted it to happen as much as you did,
but that's all I wanted to happen.

Speaker 4 (50:52):
And he's like, is this because I doubted a rape victim?
And he's like.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
He's like that was the job that is a personal
and live goes you know what. Neither was last night
and I'm shivering. That is so cold. It is so
cold and so good.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
And then I had like a consent moment in to
you both wanted like, yeah, I like sex.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
I'm a grown woman. I wanted to bang you. But
like you know, we find out. I mean, like so
in the next scene, Stable and Benson are at their lockers,
which I think we see some of these lockers at
the very beginning and like never again, but there is
a locker.

Speaker 4 (51:29):
That's also lockers.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Also like change located, like sometimes they're just right in
the middle of the pre stasm of the are the
side room.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Sometimes they have it in the crib, like the rumin
Sleep has lockers.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
Yeah, so I don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
It's very confusing, but at this point and I like
the early season room the most. Like the squad room.
I like it so much. I like the ringing of
the phones, I like the click clack of the typewriter paper.
I like the like the big paper stacked up on
the desks, like the regular corkboard that like is kind
of shitty and not like nothing is electronic yet, you know, like,

(52:00):
I get it, we got to evolve with the times.
But like, I love the squadroom. I think that's why
they did it at the Emmys. They made like an
old ass squadroom with like a fan, you know, to
make like people remember.

Speaker 4 (52:09):
Like you love this. So the lockers are iconic, but
like you don't see that.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
But there is one that says brisco And I'm like,
is that Kenny Briscoe the son who is in one episode?

Speaker 4 (52:20):
Because I don't think that.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
I don't think that the other law and Order people
work out of the same precinct the ones from Regular, Right,
they're different people.

Speaker 4 (52:27):
I don't know yahing about Regular, Like it really ends
with me and people always want to bond with me,
and I'm like, find another friend.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Yeah, I've seen a few episodes, but I couldn't even
really point out any of their plots, Like I don't Yeah,
it's not really that's not my I'm a We're one.

Speaker 4 (52:41):
We're one alley Way gals.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
Okay, So Stabler and Benson are shooting the shit at
the lockers about meat guy, and then out of nowhere,
he goes, so how long you've been banging Cassidy?

Speaker 4 (52:52):
I mean he doesn't say it like that, but he asks.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Her and she denies it and is like, no, I
mean no, it's not that's not happening.

Speaker 4 (52:57):
Like and then finally.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
She gives it up and she's like, is it that obvious?
And he's like, I'm your partner. We all know way
too much about each other, blah blah blah, and she's
like asking Stabler kind of like like what do I do?
Like I didn't want it to go this far, like
he wants to see me again, like I don't you know?
And Stabler says, be nice, maybe even be over nice.
He'll be cold, but he'll get over it. It happens,

(53:20):
and she's like, really, I mean, I think the issue
for her is not that she doesn't like like Cassidy.
It's that she doesn't want to shit where she eats,
Like she doesn't want to get involved.

Speaker 4 (53:28):
With anybody at work, which is smart.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
So but when you're married to the job, unfortunately, that's
the only kind of person you're really going to meet.
So that is who she has available for fucking. So
now they're talking to the meat thief baby McGrath, and
he has a long rap sheet.

Speaker 4 (53:43):
Benson is able, we're questioning him.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
And five hundred pounds did he want to start like
a restaurant?

Speaker 1 (53:48):
I just don't get why you need that much. And
they don't get into it. They don't ask him. They're
not like, what were you doing with all that meat?
Bro like not like just five hundred pounds? Sat like
you're gonna have a barbecue.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Like it's not your card, but you didn't want to
start with maybe twenty pounds of meat and see what happened?

Speaker 4 (54:04):
Yeah, yeah, wild.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
I think a lot of people, though, go for big
because they think if the card's going to get if
it goes through, they're like, great, I got a run,
because then it's eventually gonna get called in, so they
don't go for small.

Speaker 4 (54:15):
I don't know. It's like when people I remember always
hearing in New York.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
That when people steal credit cards, the first thing they
do is they go by monthly metro cards because they're
like one hundred and thirty dollars and you can just
get them. You don't have to put in a pin,
you don't have to sign, you just and it's like
expensive and you can get it quickly. But yeah, anyway,
so okay, so Benson is table are questioning baby McGrath
about anything but the meat, and he starts to get
the idea that he starts to like they start to

(54:41):
ask about like the rape, and he's.

Speaker 4 (54:42):
Like, whohahahaho, who who woa?

Speaker 1 (54:43):
I did not rape anybody. He goes, I was in
a holding cell last night for jumping a turnstyle. Imagine that,
like your life involves, just like being in jail multiple
days in a row. You're like, oh, no, yesterday, I'm
here now, but yesterday I was here for a different thing,
like I was not committing a crime. So he's he
I was in jail for holding him for jumping a turnstyle,
and he's like, I found that wallet in a garbage can.

Speaker 4 (55:05):
There was no cash, so obviously I had to use the.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
Credit card by five hundred pound a met This is
not weird, So they check it out. The guy's alibi
checks out he was in jail. So then Harper shows
up looking nervous. They called her. They didn't even ask
this guy, like what's up? Where were you? He's got
a very easily provable alibi, But they call Harper and go,
we got the guy. So Harper shows up and she's like,

(55:29):
is he here? And they're like, sorry, it's not him.
I blame them for that. That's bullshit. You can wait
until you've got more on this guy. Benson though, is like,
well why are here? Here are the new keys to
your apartment that the city locksmith made, and Harper's like okay,
so he's still out there. And that's sort of like
a done, done, sad moment. And then six months later

(55:50):
we never see a time jump like this. There's a
card that says six months later, and we never see
as big of a jump like that. So interesting. Live
comes into the bullpen dressed like she's going on a date. Okay,
she's got a hot pink top on a skirt. Cassidy's like,
you look nice, you're going out and she's like yeah,
and he's like, six months ago, you didn't have time

(56:11):
for a relationship. And she's like, come on, Bri, it's
not you. It's a policy. You don't fall, and you
don't fall. I wrote you don't fall asleep with someone
you work with. I meant to write, you don't fall
in love with someone you work with, no matter how
good the sex was. And instead of just taking the
compliment that the sex was good, he's like well, you know,
you're gonna get married someday, and she's like, maybe I won't,

(56:33):
and he's like, well you will, but as long as
you're at this job, this marriage is going to be
an affair. And it is very harsh to say that
and not his place, but ultimately correct, you know, she says,
you're doing this job too, I know, but eventually they
get Eventually he leaves because I think he can't kind
of can't take it well. He also causes a lot
of problems and breaks a lot of rules. I know, yeah,

(56:56):
does crazy shit and puts other people in danger. It's
not his place to say it. Saying he kind of
is correct, Like if the writers are writing his lines,
they kind of are like, guess what, don't ever expect
her to walk down the aisle. This woman is not
like you're going to find a stable relationship because she
is married to this job.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
So I just don't like that he's implying that she's
gonna have these issues, but like, not him.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Right, well like that, I think he's like I doubt
rape victims, and I like treat this like a job,
and you treat it like personally, you help people, like
outside of work hours, and you do more.

Speaker 4 (57:29):
You know, I think he's kind of like, you know whatever,
it's kind of a.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Dig because it's not like that that's what they were
talking about. It's not like she said I don't have
time for a relationship because of the job. She said,
I don't want to shit where I eat, like, you know,
she doesn't want a relationship at work, and he's like
just trying to insult her, I think, being like you're
too good at your job. But anyway, Cragan gets calls
Benson in and trust her to another detective, who explains

(57:54):
to her that four days ago, a guy in this
guy's precinct attacked a woman in the same zat manner
as Harper's attack and used a curling iron to fake
a gun the guy. The victim pulled a gun on him,
but the guy ran out, and then the cops picked
him up like hobbling down the street and the victim
couldn't id him, and they're like, well, where is he now,
And they're like, he's already out.

Speaker 4 (58:15):
He had a great lawyer, which is like, oh.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
My god, this fucking systemwhere if you have a good
lawyer you can get anything done. The other detective is
like yeah, it was weird. Why is this West Village
guy who's got a lawyer on retainer, why is he
breaking an entering? And the guy says, but this woman
didn't get raped. It was just a breaking and entering thing.
So this guy was wearing a mask, so he's getting better.

(58:39):
So Liv thinks this is definitely the guy. She's like,
I know it in my gut, and we've got to
get Harper in here to id him. And Craigan's like, well,
first I want you to go get a statement from
this new victim named Jane Tyler. So Craigan says it
could wait till morning, and Lives like, yeah, well rapists
don't sleep, and neither do I, So she's canceling her date. Okay,
Live is at I mean, proving Cassidy's point. Sadly, Live

(59:02):
is at Jane's apartment in Tribeca, same neighborhood as Harper.
This woman's face is fucked up, like huge black eye.
She's explaining how she froze she couldn't pull the trigger.
She also says that the guy took her father's watch
that has the inscription LEO on it, her grandfather's name,
so she also admits to Benson that she was in
fact raped by this guy. It was not just a burglary,

(59:24):
and while she had not told the cops that previously,
she said he also ejaculated on her stomach, made her
take a shower all the samemo. Benson's like, why didn't
you tell the cops about the rape or the watch?
And she's like, they were just in my home. They
were touching everything. I just wanted them out of there.
I was embarrassed, Like these are the show is really
touching on all these different reactions you can have to this.

(59:45):
Not everybody is like, yes, take me in for a
rape kit so that we can bust this guy immediately,
Like she just wanted She was like traumatized. She said
when the cops got there, she couldn't speak. That's another
reason why she didn't say a lot of the things
that happened. So she also said that he said, isn't
this how you like it? So she's kicking herself for
not using the gun to protect herself, and Benson pulls
out her classic you did the one thing you're supposed

(01:00:08):
to do survive. So the next day they go to
the apartment of this guy. His name is Kenneth Cleary,
and he lives in a fancy ass what looks like
a brownstone. His and Taylor wife comes to the door
and she calls, calls Kenneth and he comes out carrying
their little bowl cut five year old son, and then

(01:00:29):
Benson as she's talking to them, Benson just clocks the
ring and it's Harper's ring. It's like this very distinct
branch with the diamond leaves. And now Cleary is an
interrogation with Benson his saber and he's this guy is
so gross, like immediately perfect casting.

Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
He is douche central.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
Okay, he's making up a story about rolling his ankle,
that's why he was limping when they found him. He
said he was clearing his head. And they're like at
two forty five in the morning, eighteen blocks from where
you live. And he's like, I got some big accounts
on the brain and they're worth a lot of money.
And then they accused him of, you know, raping Jane
Ann Harper, and he's like, oh please, and Benson gets

(01:01:10):
up close and takes a huge hit of his cologne.
She's like she like really sucks it up. And then
when they ask about the ring, like, where did you
get the ring? He's like, I should probably.

Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
Call my lawyer. And then even though he's.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Basically lawyered up, he keeps talking to them and he's like, oh,
I got it on the street. And she's like, oh, hey,
that's a nice watch. Can I see it? And she
takes it off and it's engraved with the word Leo,
and he's like, oh, that's my extra astrological sign.

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
He's got an accuse like so quickly.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
It's like he's a freak, Like I don't realize that's
actually like a clue that you're more full of shit
when you have an answer for everything.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Yes, exactly, So he tells them, I mean because he
could have said, oh, I also got this set upawn
shop and it just I didn't mind the inscription, you know,
like if you're really trying to cover your tracks. He
tells them his jeweler is even change it that it's
a name for someone. Yeah, Leonardo DiCaprio. You're a big fan.

Speaker 4 (01:02:00):
I love Leo.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Yeah, totally, uncle Leo from Seinfeld, he tells them.

Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
So anyway, he.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Makes up this this freak makes up this whole story
about his jewelers named TJ. He's a black guy who
hangs out on the street between Canal and Mott, and
Stablers goes those streets intersect, You can't be between Canal
and Mott, like, dude, don't be a lying rapist. And
then also not know basic New York City geography, like
if you don't know what streets intersect with Canal, just
be like, oh, on Canal near whatever, Like it's so

(01:02:33):
weird to be like, you live in the West Village
and you so don't know the geography of a few
blocks away from you, Like that's not far.

Speaker 4 (01:02:40):
I think that's a weird thing to be caught lying on.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
But now talking to Craig and Benson's like, he smells expensive,
and Craigan goes, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I
ask you to smell the defendant, which is a I'd
say up in the classic pantheon of crazy SVU lines.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
They I've seen this one before on lists the.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Watch and the trophies they're explaining, and Craigan is like, well,
we actually only have one victim technically, because Jane did
not report her rape or the watch theft, and she
couldn't even id the guy, so they won't reopen the case.
It's like, are you not allowed to go amend your
case and say something else happened?

Speaker 4 (01:03:15):
Like I thought you were.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
But they're like, well she couldn't ide him, so like
they're not going to spend the man hours on this case.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
And Harp.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
They're like, Harper, will I d the ring and the
creep get her down here. He has a right to
a speedy arraignment, which is twenty four hours. So they
go to Harper's apartment and the super lives there. Now
he's like, Harper never slept here another night, So now
they go find Benji, and Benji talks about how Harper
fell apart after the attack. She stopped eating, lost her
job because she never slept. She had to sleep with

(01:03:41):
the lights on. Then he couldn't sleep, so he was
getting in trouble at work. Harper couldn't sit through a movie.
She started working out constantly. She would wear running shoes
all the time, even to sleep. And she saw a
therapist and he said she never shed a tear. He goes,
we never had sex again, and he said, I think
she said she broke up with me a couple months ago.
So at her new place, he knows where she lives.

(01:04:04):
At her new place, Harper opens the door and she's
got a short haircut and a business casual outfit. So
I don't know what's happened professionally, but it seems like
she's joined the corporate world. And she says, I don't
care what you want. Don't come here ever again, and
she slams the door in their face. So wow, the
friendship between her and Olivia has seemed to have dissipated
in these six months. In Craigan's office, we've got Angie

(01:04:27):
Harmon Akaada Abby Carmichael from regular Law and Order days.
Cleary's wife alibis him as being home all night, and
there are five tjs in the area that all sell electronics,
not jewelry. Live wants a warrant, and She's like, I
can't give you a warrant because she because lives like.
If I get a warrant, we can go in, we
can maybe find trophies of other victims and lives like.
But Abby's like, I can't give you a warrant because

(01:04:49):
you're not allowed to go on a fishing exposition.

Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
You have to go when you get a warrant.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
It has to be to look for specific things, not
like let's just see if he has any other trophies.
So and then Benson's like, can we compel Harper to
like maybe she's got unpaid parking tickets? And Carmichael's like, yeah, no, bitch,
I'm not gonna like rape this woman again.

Speaker 4 (01:05:06):
So you got to use your own powers of persuasion.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
It's a weird idea, yeah, And Benson's like, but that's
not what I meant. And it's like, I don't know
how else you would compel a rape victim to talk
to you. But Stabler is now out there digging up
info on Cleary and then they're like, get his picture
in a.

Speaker 4 (01:05:21):
Photo array, get it to Harper. We only have a
few hours.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
So Cleary is now shooting the shit with Munch, talking
about aggressive accounting, and he's got the most punishable face,
like of all time.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
This man, like he's like, what do you make.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Fifty sixty five sixty K a year and then eighty
with overtime. He's trying to tell him how he can
turn his money into more money, you know, and Stabler
comes in going you're a cancer, which is a funny
double entendre because this man is a cancer like on Society,
but he's also astrologically a cancer, not a Leo. And
he claims, oh no, it's a nickname for my grandfather

(01:05:55):
and they're like, your grandfather's name was Percy.

Speaker 4 (01:05:57):
He's like, wouldn't you rather be called Leo than Percy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
It's like the guy lie with a quickness that is, like,
you know, very concerning, and they ask him some questions,
but everything they ask him his lawyer Stone Walls. So
now Benson and Cassidy are at Harper's door, yelling through
the door, being like, we can stay here all night.

Speaker 4 (01:06:12):
We're just as stubborn as you are. Blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
She finally opens it and they want to show her
the array and she goes, I never want to see
this guy again. She goes, I don't and she honestly
doesn't care about this other victim or if there are
any other victims, and they're like, well, there's no case
without you, and she's like, okay, well what does that
do for me?

Speaker 4 (01:06:27):
Like and they're like, well, we could put.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
His ass away, and she goes, is that supposed to
change something for me? Like give me some sort of closure?
Parentheses Part one, You guys should drink if you've heard that.
And she's already made peace with it, she says, she goes,
I did therapy, I did yoga, I lit a candle,
I cut my hair. I'm over it, and you know,
she walks away as Cassidy says, to live like kind

(01:06:50):
of under his breath, but so she can hear it.
Cassidy goes, maybe he's not the one that did her,
and that sets Harper off. She's like, the one that
did me, that did me? He raped me, you asked,
and so cats there is just so unfuckable in this,
Like I know, and I can't tell if he's doing
it on purpose because he knows he can get a
rise out of her and like get hurt, Like is
this a tack dick or is he just being a dick?

(01:07:11):
I would you know, based on what he thought about
her at the beginning, I think he's maybe just being
a dick. But so Benson goes, so do something about it,
and Harper's like, I did everything I was supposed to do,
which is again another perfect like depiction of how this
system is not. When everybody says, go report, go report,
she did everything right. She did everything she was supposed
to do. She did the kit, she gave every detail,

(01:07:32):
she like, does it like everything. The cops still doubted
her until another man said I saw this rape happen
with my own eyes, which went, how often does that
ever fucking happen?

Speaker 4 (01:07:41):
Did the cops fully believe her? Did all the cops
fully believe her?

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
And then even then with all the information, there was
nothing that happened for six months, and she's like, my god,
this guy just got away. So like, I can understand
why a lot of people don't want.

Speaker 4 (01:07:55):
To put themselves through this.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
But uh, Live goes, you are obviously not fine, and
Harper's like, well, that's not your place to tell me.
And then she's like, well, if you knew anything. I've
talked to survivors. Closure is a myth. Survivors say you
never get over this. When was the last time you
slept in your bed without running shoes on? And you
know that hits Harper because how did you know about
the running shoes whatever? And Live explains, sometimes these devastating

(01:08:19):
things happen in our lives that change us, and you
can either accept these changes or fight like hell all
the way. And somehow she gets through to Harper, who
agrees to go in and do a lineup. Okay, good
because we are running out of time, and they bring
out five blonde douchebags and they all say the line,
is this how you like it? And I'm not gonna
lie to you guys. You're going to see this five
more times. There are like four more times where a

(01:08:41):
bunch of men go is this how you like it?

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
Multiple times? And it's kind of why that line.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
Is like like drawn into my head, Like it's basically
drilled into my head. So Harper shakes her head at
the lineup and goes, the guy's not there, which is
crazy because she's the only guy that's seen his face.
But I'm sure that happens all the time, Like there's
witness meet misidentification all the time, Like no, I swear

(01:09:06):
it was that guy, and then that guy has an alibi,
you know what I mean. It's like people do misremember.
But I just really thought she also if she had
seen him before, I why didn't they work with a
sketch artist immediately because but again, he would have looked
like a million Wall Street douchebags who live in New
York City, so it would have been hard anyway. So
Harper comes back to Live's desk and she sits down

(01:09:26):
and she's like sighing with relief. She's like, I'm so
happy he wasn't in there. And Live goes, I got
to show you something, and she shows her the ring
and she goes, where did you get it? And she
goes from a man that you couldn't identify? And now
Harper is like sobbing that she didn't let that she
let this guy get away, and she says to Olivia,
she goes, my mother died a horrible, long death, and

(01:09:47):
I thought because of that that nothing bad could ever
happen to me. Like additionally, you know, it's like it's
like what we just did in that episode where that
poor girl gets assaulted twice in New York City. It's
like she just thought, this is the worst thing that's
ever happened to me has happened to me, Like how
could something bad happen to me again?

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
You know, like you don't think that's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
But Live hugs her as she cries, and that's Dick
Wolf Parentheses part one.

Speaker 4 (01:10:13):
So now we're moving on to closure.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
I wanted to say, knew they were going to do
a part two the whole time, or it came about
after the season, like when they started writing season two.

Speaker 4 (01:10:23):
I am curious.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
Well, also, I wonder because Tracy Polland got nominated for
an Emmy, so they were like, probably like we could
do another episode, like sort of following up on it,
bringing her back.

Speaker 4 (01:10:34):
Damn say they had season one fucking nominations. That's cool. Yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
So anyway, Closure Part two opens with a nine to
one to one operator taking a call and it's a
woman reporting a rape. Now we know because we've just
listened to a full episode of her talking that this
is Harper's voice. Okay, she's calling in this call and
a dog is barking, and the woman says, get away
from me at this dog, and then the call gets disconnected.

Speaker 4 (01:11:00):
It's like a scuffle with a dog, you can tell.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
The operator calls the cops and says there's a rape
in progress at the scene. Benson is there with her.
Now it's for season two, people, So the hair that
silky little brunette bob is gone, and we've got the
spiky little situation from season two. He's doing press right now,
I think for the upcoming season. Yeah, she just did
an interview, She's like, I thought I was going to
get fired.

Speaker 4 (01:11:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I saw that too. Shoot, yeah,
I love one. She said.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
Basically what happened was I thought she got the care
cut on her own. But I think like the article
that I saw or the interview I saw with like
she got blamer. Yes, some guy was like, do you
on a little trim and just cut cut, cut, cut
cut and gave her like a full pixie without asking,
you know. So it's kind of crazy, especially when you're
the lead of a television show. Certainly it's not Chris

(01:11:50):
whatever his name is, the guy that cuts her hair
and cuts Jennifer mc millan mcmellan, Yeah. I brought a
picture of Muska Hargotte once to my hair stylist for
the color. I was like, I want the color. Was
after he'd colored her hair, Like it looks so good.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
I'll be honest, I really can't stop thinking about baby
Chanelle on the runway, Like I just love her helping
a little girl out. That was just her instincts.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
She's sweet instinct was like come on, and like that
could not be staged, do you know what I mean?
Like it's just a pure moment of a kid being
a good kid, Like I just love.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
Her because she could I mean, you know, who knows
what she's like, you know, but she could be a
spoiled brat, Like, yeah, she seems very sweet for the
privileged life that she has.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
Yeah, I bet Ice drops a lot of like miniature
Ice cult facts on her and doesn't let her get
take things for.

Speaker 4 (01:12:42):
The way she spoils the shit out of her.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
No, I know, but I bet he also like teaches
her like in life, you gotta work for your money.
You got to sign your checks. You're not gonna get
anything handed to you, Like even though I'm spoiling you
now with five bulldogs or whatever the fuck, Like, you're
gonna work so short hair. Benson and Stabler are on
the scene. One of the uniforms has them an evidence
bag with like a bracelet on it that says Laurie,
I don't they found it under the fire escape. I

(01:13:07):
don't really know why this is like an important piece.
It's like, so we get the victim's name in advance.

Speaker 4 (01:13:11):
I don't know. Oh no, it's how they find the victim.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
Okay, because they're in they like know where the building is,
but they don't know which apartment. So now the unities
come out and they're like, we found the apartment. We
found the apartment. So they go into the apartment. The
victims in the bathroom with the shower running. Laurie keeps going,
don't come in here. The place is filthy. This place
is filthy. Don't come in here. And like finally she
like Olivia comes in like gently, and she's like when
she opens the room is like filled with steam.

Speaker 4 (01:13:33):
She opens the shower.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
The girl is like in the shower like scrubbing the
drain with a toothbrush, and she's like, I need to
get all this stuff that he washed off me.

Speaker 4 (01:13:41):
I needed to go away.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Like she's obviously like having a very very traumatized reaction
to what has obviously just happened to her. Live calms
her down, covers her with a towel, and Laurie says
that the guy just kept saying, is this how you
like it?

Speaker 4 (01:13:55):
This is how you like it?

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
And it's really sad because she says, to be and
this is really happening, isn't it? Like she was, It's
like she just snapped into like lucidity a little bit
more and was like fuck, this like, this thing actually
happened to me. And then Benson and Stabler compare notes,
same neighborhood, same type of woman, like these all these
women so far, I forgot to say last episode, but
Jane Tyler was like a petite blonde as well, like

(01:14:19):
he's always going after petite blonde. Samemo Bastard is at
it again. Another quick, concise, cold open, and we're at
the credits, So at the precinct, they're telling Cragan, we
know this is Cleary, and Craigan's like, it's been a
year since he was a suspect.

Speaker 4 (01:14:35):
It's like, no, no, Harper was raped a year ago.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
Then six months later you brought him in as a suspect,
and really it was May, and it's October right now,
so it's five months have passed. And if so, like,
if he's a suspect in May, six months later, it's
not crazy to show. It's crazy to me to shut
down a theory that this guy could still be back
at it after five months, Like that's not weird. Even
after a year, these things happen. Benson and Stabler are

(01:14:59):
sure this is Cleary who they had and they lost
five months ago. And Laurie is the most recent victim.
She shows up at the precinct. So now Live is
talking to Laurie. She's describing her attack. It's the same
as Harper's sailor is saying all these pieces of her story.

Speaker 4 (01:15:12):
Sabler's behind the glass and.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
He's saying the fishbowl like he's saying all these pieces
of the story before she says them. So it's like,
this is how textbook this guy is, Like, everything's the same.
She's like, he ripped off my necklace. Munch reports that
there was nothing from forensics, which duh. This guy never
leaves forensics. He never leaves any evidence. So when he
heard sirens, he pushed Laurie and liv goes, wait, did

(01:15:37):
you call the cops and she says no, So they
must have a witness. So now they're listening to the
nine one one call which came from a payphone on Franklin,
and maybe the dog owner is also a witness. They
go to the payphone, they figure out these two apartments
that could see the crime. This is all red Herring shit.
They basically they find this woman. She's blind, but she
has a dog. She says, oh, Billy Smith walked my dog.

(01:15:57):
Billy Smith is a doctor. He's not really a doctor.
He's a medical student who's on the roof studying for
his medical exams.

Speaker 4 (01:16:02):
It's like whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
It all leads us to this guy who is who
owns a stand down the block, and that's where you
find this sweet little pooch who will not shut the
fuck up. And this is definitely the dog who barked
at the nine one one callar. The guy that's there,
he's like smoking a cigar. He describes her, the woman
using the phone as blonde, thirty, thin but not too thin,

(01:16:24):
black sweater, black pants, thong panties. They're like, how did
you know you could see her underwear? And he goes,
I notice the panty line, which is disgusting. And he goes,
she had a nice ass. And then Benson and Stabler
stare at him blankly, and he goes, I'm an ass man.
I don't apologize for it, which is also a Seinfeld reference,
besides Uncle Leo, whoa the ass man reference. And I

(01:16:45):
believe that it is his wife standing silently behind him
the entire time in the newsstand, wrangling the dog while
her husband tells the NYPD how much he loves ass.
So that's pretty funny to me as well. At the precinct,
Levs still trying to Yeah. At the precinct live, still
trying to convince Craigan that this is Cleary the Girls,
And you're just like, I'm an ass man, what do

(01:17:07):
you yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
And they're like, so you noticed all that, but not
her face for one second?

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
Okay, He's like, I noticed what I noticed? Deal with it,
you know, like he's I mean, he he runs a
tight news stand. I guess this guy sucks. But inaugural season,
Finn walks in with an interesting tidbit. Right after the
nine to one one call was placed, a call went
from that payphone to where dun done the Cleary home.
Cragan sends Munch and Fin to the Cleary's house because

(01:17:33):
they already have a history with Benson and Stabler, so
let's send some new guys over there, missus Cleary. This
is this woman's whole part is she just keeps swinging
the door open to her huge brownstone, being like yes,
and she swings the door wide open. And I thought
I knew this actress from something else, but I found
her IMDb and it is truly crazy. Her only two
credits are these two episodes of this show and one

(01:17:55):
episode of regular Law and Order.

Speaker 4 (01:17:57):
Wow, it's the.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
Strangest imdbfen not a veo, not a commercial, not a
like uncredited part in another thing, just these three things.
So she quit acting, but she looked familiar to me.
I thought she did other stuff anyway. Maybe she's just
like a wife of someone on the crew who's like,
I'm good at acting, let me do it one episode.
But anyway, she's like, about damn time you showed up.

(01:18:21):
I've been after the phone company for months. Someone is
harassing me with phone calls. And the woman's like, well
you're and they're like what is she saying? What is
the person saying? And she's like, well, the woman keeps
saying your husband's a rapist, and she's like what And
he's not a rapist.

Speaker 4 (01:18:34):
It's like okay, lady.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
And then she goes last night when she called, she
said he's raping someone right now.

Speaker 4 (01:18:40):
And then they're like, where was your husband?

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
And she's like home with me all night, which is
like always what she says without like a shred of
looking guilty, and she didn't want to wake her up.

Speaker 4 (01:18:48):
They're like, did you wake him up? Like whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
She's like, well, we don't both have to be awake
because someone's calling our house and trying to ruin our lives.
And I called the phone company in the morning, so
she goes They offered to like basically tap our phone line,
but my husband doesn't want that because they could listen
to our private conversations and you know that, he writes
in finance he can't have that, And she's like.

Speaker 4 (01:19:09):
This woman is ruining our lives. Why won't you stop her.

Speaker 1 (01:19:12):
It's like they're prank calls, and literally this woman's been raped,
so it's like kind of crazy. So now the gang
is in a huddle in the squad room, and the
very first harassing call came from Harper Anderson. They find
out like later she starts calling from payphones, but the
first call, I guess she calls from her own number,
and they're like, sorry, live looks like she's been stalking
Cleary and it's like, I don't know the way everybody

(01:19:33):
just like wants to paint Harper as like a fucking criminal.

Speaker 4 (01:19:36):
This entire episode is wild.

Speaker 1 (01:19:38):
Harper's apartment door opens and she's smiling immediately going you
should be at his place, not mine. Her hair is
long again, grows extremely fast. It's been five months and
it's way down to her boobs again.

Speaker 4 (01:19:48):
But good for her. She's probably taking collagen.

Speaker 1 (01:19:51):
And she says, they're like, you've been stalking Cleary and
she's like, stalking is illegal. I surveil from a legal distance,
and she's got everything covered. She saw this guy go
into alley. She circled the building, making sure that she
hadn't like lost him, that he'd gone out a different way,
and then she figured he was definitely raping someone and
she called nine one one. The whole time she's talking
to them, she's opening a bottle of wine. She's grabbing

(01:20:11):
three glasses like they are about to dish, okay, and
then the camera pulls out and we see that she
has a massive mugshot of Cleary framed and hanging above
her kitchen.

Speaker 4 (01:20:21):
Cabinets as like a piece of art.

Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
And Stabler she's like, want some wine, and Stabler turns
her down and she's like, it's six o'clock.

Speaker 4 (01:20:27):
You guys clock out? Did it work days over?

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
And she's like, Clear's a workaholic and he doesn't leave
the office until eight, so we've got plenty of time
to chat like an hour and a half, so it's clear,
like she follows this guy like every day. Liv points
out that Harper couldn't id Cleary in the lineup, So
how do you know he's the guy who attacked you?
She goes, I went to the sentencing for his trial
for possession of stolen property. When he left court, he

(01:20:50):
winked at me. He winked, So she knows that this
is the guy and she goes and he must have
raped someone or you wouldn't be here right now. And
then she's like stabler Scotch vodka. Like he's like, no,
thank you, and she's like, you don't have to be
so tense, and she's like I don't expect shit from
you guys like and Lives like, we did what we could,
and she's like you couldn't id him, And Harper's like,

(01:21:10):
why not tail him?

Speaker 4 (01:21:11):
Then you knew he would rape again?

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
And they're like, true, but even though there's like no
way that they have the resources to do that, they
have done that many times, Like I don't know why
they didn't do that. They do it all the time,
but in this case they couldn't. So Lives like, you
can't handle this on your own. And Harper's like, what,
I'm basically doing what a PI does and I don't
need a license to do it for myself. And they're like,
you're harassing his wife, and she's like, she's enabling a rapist.

(01:21:34):
You guys are too busy to deal with him, so
I will. So at the precinct, Sabler argues that Harper
is dangerous and Benson says, maybe not.

Speaker 4 (01:21:42):
I mean, we.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
Almost literally caught the guy because of her, and the
system failed her, so she's basically doing this on her own.

Speaker 4 (01:21:49):
Like live can kind of understand where this girl's coming from.

Speaker 1 (01:21:52):
And Craigan traffic cops like Finn and Munch, you go
bring Harper in for a stern talking to, and Benson
and Stabler go get in Cleary's face and maybe that'll
stop him from raping.

Speaker 4 (01:22:01):
I mean, he was literally brought in.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
And almost busted, and he keeps doing it, but you know,
maybe you guys could scare him. So then they go
to Cleary's house and when they get there, there's flyers
taped up everywhere of his mugshot and the word rapists
written below it, and then down the block we see
Meredith Cleary the wife yelling at Harper, who's actively hanging
up the flyers, going.

Speaker 4 (01:22:20):
Stop a you're owning our lives, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
You know, she can't have the neighbors seeing these signs.
So in the middle of this scuffle, the rapist of
the hour, Cleary, comes speeding up to the curb in
this little BMW convertible, like honestly just cementing his duchary
in my mind. And they tell Cleary, well, a woman
was raped two nights ago, and he's like, I was
home with my wife. And Harper's like, you're lying, I
saw you. And he's like, how much longer are you

(01:22:43):
gonna let this woman who forgot to take her lithium
harass us? And that just SAIDs Harper, spiraling like she's like,
now this guy's gonna fucking gaslight me and make and
make people think I'm crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:22:54):
Fuck that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
She grabs a huge metal bar which is in a
trash pile, and in New York City there's a massive
metal bar in nearly a retrash piles, so you could
just grab one, and she smashes the windshield of this
douchey little I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or legit.

Speaker 4 (01:23:08):
I am being sarcastics. It's like wild.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
She's like, I'm mad, and she reaches and there's like
a perfectly shaped weapon for smashing a car roof like
sitting in a trash pile.

Speaker 4 (01:23:17):
It's like ridiculous, but it's TV and I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
So she just smashes the shit out of this shitty,
little fucking car that this guy has, and then they
take her away and she's like, yeah, arrest me, not
the rapist, and gets in Cleary's face and he's like.

Speaker 4 (01:23:33):
Grinning, like this guy is so gross, and his wife.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
Looks at him like she's pissed off, Like the neighbors
are going to see this, like why are you smiling?

Speaker 4 (01:23:41):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:23:42):
So Benson and Stabler are now chatting with Craigan and Cabot.
Harper puts Cleary at Laurie's building, but that's it, not
in the apartment. And after her little stunt with the car,
she's not gonna fly as a witness, right Benson. I mean, also,
she wouldn't fly as a witness just because of the
fact that she's accused it like he's been like actually
maybe because he hasn't been officially brought up on charges

(01:24:02):
on her rape. Yet maybe maybe she wouldn't be but
his defense people would poke holes in the fact that
she's been following him and stocking him. So Benson's defending Harper,
being like she's taking control of her own life, and
Stabler goes, oh please, and it's like shut up. Benson
says they have to follow Cleary. Craigan is in for it,
but he can't authorize the overtime, and Benson and Stabler

(01:24:22):
are like, who's asking for it?

Speaker 4 (01:24:23):
We are down to work for free? What do we make?
Sixty five? K let's do it. It's season two.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
They are not making They are not like getting big
salaries these two. Okay, So now they're at Cleary's work
at a venture capital firm. He wants to know why
they're there and they're like, oh, we're here to talk
to your boss.

Speaker 4 (01:24:39):
Is that okay?

Speaker 1 (01:24:40):
So they tell the boss we're investigating a serial rapist.
What's Kindeth Cleary.

Speaker 4 (01:24:44):
Like to work with?

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
And I think this is so fun. This is like
the ultimate shade. Like they're not telling him that he's
a serial rapist. They're like, Hi, work cops investing a
cereal rape. Tell us more about Kenneth Cleary like it's
you can connect the dots, sir. And the boss is like,
is he a rapist? And they're like so, or have
you seen his haircut? Yes, of course he's a rapist.

Speaker 3 (01:25:02):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
And then boss says he's a workaholic. And then he
mentions like he works all the time. We lost two
assistants in Philly who couldn't keep up with him. We're
opening a branch there, so he's there half his time.
And now they're like, could we see his travel records? Cleary,
who is like the personification of smug, he's like so smug.
He walks up to a Stabler's car while he's eating

(01:25:23):
and he goes, you told you're my boss about the misdemeanor,
and he goes, I brought the company five fifty eight
million last year, so I think they'll live with a
little misdemeanor. And then which is the stolen possession charge?
And he asks Stabler, from one hungry man to another,
anything better than gorging on a fresh caught meal, which
is such a disgusting, like double entendra gross thing to say, Stabler,

(01:25:45):
because it's like you're not catching anyone, You're actually not
doing you're like cowardly grabbing women while they sleep, you
know what I mean. You're not like running get like
running after someone like the thrill of the hunt. You're
not some fucking manly man. You fucking sneak in to
places that I've openings and and take blitz attack people.
You're a coward. Not that you're a better if you
hunt people, but if you're trying to Yeah, if you're

(01:26:09):
trying to apply that, you're some kind of like man
who's catching his kid eating his kill.

Speaker 4 (01:26:13):
Fuck off, Because that is another thing I liked about
Dexter that he like had.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
To work out. That was like a part of it.
Or like now there shoulder hurts and he's older and
he's like, oh geez, I know he doesn't have the mobility.
I like that realistic element. But yeah, if you're a killer,
not only do you have to be an incredibly award
winning actor, but then you also have to be athletic.
You need to work out, and you need attention to
detail attentions, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
Yeah, I remember that about Deb. Deb was always working out.
She was always like on the treadmill.

Speaker 4 (01:26:43):
Like running. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:44):
Oh, so after he says this gross line, Sabler grabs
him by the tie and brings him in close and goes,
you won't be eating out anymore, and then like lets
him go, which I love. And now Munch is researching
rapes in Philly and three of them have Cleary's signature,
and Cleary was there in town for all three of them.
Craigan wants Munch to go down to Philly and interview
the victims, and Munch is like, can't they just fax

(01:27:05):
the case files? And Craigan's like, Billy's SVU sucks. They're
under investigation for dumping rape cases as unfounded. I don't
trust them. Get down there and talk to them yourselves.
An excuse to put Munch on a little train for
a trip. Later that night, Cleary goes to take out
his trash and he sees Finn in a car across
the street from him, and Finn just like wiggles his
badge in the moonlight, which I love, and you know,

(01:27:26):
basically it's like we're watching you, motherfucker. And then the
next morning he runs into Munch and Finn outside of
Penn Station. Actually, do you know Oscar told me yesterday?
You know, when Dad gets mad at you, he says, motherfuck,
and I go, not me. He gets when he says
that when he's mad at like drivers and he's like, oh,

(01:27:46):
I thought it was you because your mom, and I
was like, no, it's not me. We need to have
a conversation about how much Jared is swearing at other
drivers in the car. But so the next morning, Clear's
getting out of his car hop on his little train
to Philly and Munch and Finn are outside of Penn
Station and I'm sure clearly like loves that SVU and
Philly is incompetence so you can just do whatever he

(01:28:07):
wants there And they're not even like probably linking the cases,
and he's like, are you trying to make me crazy?
Cleary says to them, and they're like, well, is this
how you like it? So I love that they're trolling him.
And then this episode at the top of act three,
this episode continues to give the fax machine a lot
of play. Munch faxes up a ton of items of
jewelry stolen during rapes down in Philly to see if

(01:28:27):
missus Cleary has maybe received any of them, and Stablers
are going to go like shake the wife's tree but
not get involved in anything that would invoke spousal privilege
because that would be thrown out and if she gets defensive.

Speaker 4 (01:28:37):
I understand.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
So if I'm married, I can't decide to testify against
my husband. Like that makes no sense. I understand if
I don't want to, if I want to be like, no,
I'm married, but like that, it is suddenly a contract
where you cannot and everything you say is it admissible?

Speaker 4 (01:28:53):
Like I don't get it. Well, we talked about this before,
I know, but it still bothers me and I don't
remember what I am.

Speaker 3 (01:28:58):
No, but.

Speaker 4 (01:29:01):
Like, but I don't get it. They're like, we can't
she can't say anything, But it's like, can't she decide
to betray her husband?

Speaker 1 (01:29:06):
No? I know when we talked about it before, somebody
wrote in about it like a lawyer, and he right
in again, well hold on, let me just see if
I can find it if I just write spousal and okay.
So to answer your spousal slash marital privilege question from
the podcast episode this was back in June. Somebody wrote us,
the person who would be testifying can either invoke the

(01:29:29):
privilege or wave it, and it relates to conversations within
the marriage, not actions.

Speaker 4 (01:29:34):
That are observed.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
So if you see your husband murdering someone, you can
say I saw my husband murder someone. But if your
husband told you, I guess conversations, that's privilege. If your
husband told you they murdered someone, it sounds like but
it sounds like you should still be able to wave
it if you want, If you're the person, you shouldbible
to wave it. I think what he argues, what later

(01:29:55):
the lawyer argues, is that the gifts of the jewelry
are communications, even though they're not. Yeah, I agree in
this in this case, it's a stretch, but we're not
even there yet. We're still at the part where Stabler's
going to go talk to this lady and see like
and you know, they're like, she could get defensive, and
he's like, I'll handle it. And then Benson's like, I'm
going to take some personal time. I'm meeting Harper for

(01:30:15):
coffee at a gun range. Like that's her personal time,
is meeting a victim at a gun range. Craigan's like
that seems insane, and she's like it's okay, Daddy, she's permitted.
So at SVU in Philly, we get a young blonde
woman telling her story, and then another one, and then
a third, and they're intertwining their stories, but they're all
telling the exact same story that Harper and Laurie and

(01:30:36):
this other woman have told, so all the victims have
the same exact story.

Speaker 4 (01:30:39):
This guy does not deviate.

Speaker 1 (01:30:41):
At the Cleary home, Meredith won't let Stabler in, but
he's like, listen, I know you're a victim too, Like
whenever there's a rape victim, there's other victims as well
who aren't necessarily the victims of the rape. And he's
saying he's saying rape a lot of times, and she
does not like that because the neighbors are going to hear.
And she's a very you know, keeping up with the
Joneses kind of like woman and cares what people think

(01:31:02):
a lot. So then I think he finally she kind
of like lets him in, so he stops saying rape
so much on her doorstep, and then he gives her
a list of jewelry stolen during the rapes they think
that her husband committed, and she goes, my husband makes money,
he doesn't have to steal me jewelry, and he's like, oh,
you dumb bitch, Like I'm talking about a sickness here,
like these are trophies that allow him to relive the
rapes and get excited. Like he had to like explain

(01:31:23):
that to her, like she's not understanding, and so he
tells her, also, we're out of options, so let me
know and I won't bother you again. So that's, you know,
he kind of pleads to her in a vulnerable place,
from a vulnerable place kind of. So at the range,
Harper is firing off a couple of rounds. They're all
kill shots to the chest and the head. Like she's

(01:31:43):
gotten good. She rattles off all these stats about the gun,
how it took her in a month to hold it steady,
and ben'son and She's like, oh, and it's got a
fourteen round clip, and Benson's like, babe, a fourteen round
clip is illegal in New York. And Harper's like, oopsie,
here you go, and like tosses it to her, and
then Benson's like, honey, what is up. This gun is
practically an assault, right, it's a little extreme. And Harper's like,
you're so crazy, Like you think I'm velma vigilante that

(01:32:05):
I'm just waiting to shoot Cleary. That's not who I am.
She goes, I've gotten control over my life. I don't
care about revenge or justice. I follow Cleary because I'm
afraid of him, and he's the last thing that I'm
afraid of. And if I can get over that, I
can get my life back and lives like, let's go booze.

Speaker 4 (01:32:22):
So I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:32:23):
They pass Harper's apartment and Meredith Cleary is outside of
it and she's like, I was just leaving you a note.
And so it's confusing because it seems like they're just
walking down a city street. And then suddenly the wife
of the rapist is there and she's like, I'm so
sorry for what happened to you. And she's like, I
feel responsible and I feel guilty and I just wanted
you to know that.

Speaker 4 (01:32:41):
And they're like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (01:32:42):
And she pulls out a ziploc bag and it's got.

Speaker 4 (01:32:44):
A bunch of jewelry in it. So done done.

Speaker 1 (01:32:48):
This fucking guy has more than just the few victims
that we've seen at the precinct. She's explaining how her
husband would give her surprise gifts all the time. He'd
gets so excited when she tried the on, she thought
it was romantic. She's crying and then she's like, I
need a second and then she just like gets on
the phone and calls her husband says, I.

Speaker 4 (01:33:07):
Can't take it. Come home.

Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
You've got to come home right now, and then she
turns around stone faced and goes He'll be on the
next train from Philadelphia, So the wife is on board now.
At Penn station, Munch and Finner following him out of
the station, they meet up with Benson and Stabler and
they all arrest him together. They bring in the Douche
Parade again for a lineup, and Laurie immediately recognizes Cleary's
voice after they all say is this how you like it?

Speaker 4 (01:33:29):
Again?

Speaker 1 (01:33:30):
He's smugly staring through the glass to freak her out,
which is unhinged, and it does freak her out. Another
lineup happens with one of the girls from Hilly Ray.

Speaker 4 (01:33:39):
Also, I don't know if intimidating through the glasses that crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:33:42):
Yeah, you're right, Like, I mean, it's not weird for
him to be like staring creepily smuggly through the glass,
but it's like the cops are watching you.

Speaker 4 (01:33:49):
So it's kind of strange. But whatever, I hate this man.
So much.

Speaker 1 (01:33:52):
Then there's another lineup with one of the victims from Philly,
and she also Id's Cleary by his voice. And then
now we're at arraignment and he turns around and grins
at Harper, who's sitting in the gallery, And when somebody
moves out of his field of vision, it reveals that
his wife is sitting right next to Harper, and that
smug little smile goes bye bye real quick, and it's

(01:34:12):
a lovely moment, and Cabot asks for a man. The
judge is like, give me a number, like, because obviously
this lawyer's not going to shut the fuck up until
he gets bail. She goes five hundred K, and he
goes double it, and the lawyer doesn't even blink. A
million dollars bond bail doesn't blink. Harper and Meredith Cleary
follow Cabot out of court. They're like, that's the best
you can do, and Meredith is like, I thought maybe
I was wrong, but then I saw my rapist husband

(01:34:34):
sneer at Harper, Like you know, she basically saw that happen,
So she's convinced.

Speaker 4 (01:34:39):
She gives Cabot her number. She's staying on long Island.

Speaker 1 (01:34:42):
She's like, yeah, I need to talk to you about
your testimony, and then they're like anything else I could
do for you?

Speaker 4 (01:34:46):
And she goes, do you know a good divorced lawyer?

Speaker 1 (01:34:48):
And then she stomps off and then one of Cleary's
other lawyers walks up, and it's the late Great Ned Eisenberg.
I had no idea that he plays three different defense
attorneys in SVU.

Speaker 4 (01:35:00):
He plays a.

Speaker 1 (01:35:01):
Lawyer named Jerry Kleinert, a lawyer named Klein Rothberg, and
then finally he becomes Roger Kressler, who's like the recurring,
recurring lawyer. I just don't get why they would change
his name so many times. Just keep it, But I
will say, in this episode he's Klein Rothberg, which sounds
like a made up name of your like name a
Jewish lawyer, and you're like, klein Rothberg, Like, it just

(01:35:22):
sounds very made up. So Harper calls him mister klein
which is funny because I think it's his first name,
and she tells him you're gonna burn in hell for
representing this rapist, and he gleefully tells her that Jews
don't believe in hell, and then is like gotta go
and walks away with Cabot and he hands her a
bunch of moments.

Speaker 4 (01:35:38):
He's emotions. He's filing.

Speaker 1 (01:35:40):
He's like in Leminae Suppress spousal privilege, he's filing them
all okay. In the judges chambers, we have a queen
an icon, Doris Black. She is Judge Margaret Barry. She
is also the judge in Peak and that's it. Like,
so she's not an icon SVU why is necessarily? I
just love her. She was on One Life to Live

(01:36:01):
for like eight hundred episodes back when I used to
watch it. She was a voice on Doug. She's done
like fifty eight episodes of Doug. She's some voice like
named Dinky or Tippy Dink or something on Doug. And
she has ninety credits. So she has a long acting career.
And she sadly died in twenty eleven. But she's pouring
tea in her chambers. I just love her. I feel
like if she had lasted, if she had lived longer,

(01:36:22):
she would have been on SBU more. But she's pouring
tea and wants to know why, tell me why I
shouldn't throw out the jewelry. It doesn't, and cabits like,
it doesn't fall under spousal privilege, and nobody asked Cleary's
wife where he got it.

Speaker 4 (01:36:36):
We just asked who gave it to you?

Speaker 1 (01:36:39):
So like that would be a violation of spousal privilege
if Cleary said I got this from whatever. But for
her to say, my husband gave me this, that's an action.
And then he argues, well, wouldn't you say the act
of giving jewelry is a communication and the judge is
kind of buying it, so she goes, limit the scope.

(01:37:01):
You can only talk about the receipt of the jewelry
and buy whom. And now klein Rothberg is trying to
get the voice id thrown out, and she goes, you'll
have your chance to undermine the identification during cross more
tea and I love that. So at trial Laurie's on
the stand, Laurie tells Cleary's other lawyer that's not Kressler

(01:37:23):
klein Rothberg, that she could never forget this guy's voice,
and then that's how she id'ed him in the voice lineup.
Then he does a dirty trick where he plays her
a tape of a man saying, is this how you
like it and she can't idea the voice, and then
they play it again and she can't idea, and they
revealed this is a coworker of yours, this is someone
you talk to every day. Cabin objects and Judge Barry

(01:37:44):
sustains and tells the lawyer to back off.

Speaker 4 (01:37:47):
Why did you not object before she answered her?

Speaker 1 (01:37:49):
I mean she did object, but for some reason, I
feel like the judge allowed it. I can't believe it
was allowed, and then it was sustained, like the jury
should never have heard her not to get that voice,
I'd because that's bullshit. Next up, Cabot is prepping Meredith Cleary,
and she's like, why are you asking me these questions
so specifically and so narrowly, And they're like, ma'am, we

(01:38:11):
have to explain spousal privilege to you. Like she's like,
I can't believe I'm not allowed to talk about what
a huge boner my husband got every time he watched
me wear these trophies, like how he'd make me wear
them before we had sex, and they like, tell her,
you're not allowed to say those things, and she's freaking
out because he wants joint custody of their son. So
she's flipping out, like and it's like, okay, well if
they had just told her keep calm and stick to

(01:38:33):
these answers, or you'll fuck the entire thing up. But
then on the stand, Meredith is doing all the right stuff.
She's answering the questions and the narrow she's staying within
the scope. It's perfect. But then they ask her about
some opal ring and she just fucking breaks, like she
cannot keep it in, and she has to tell the
cord how excited it made her husband when she put
the ring on. He just had to have sex with her.
And Meredith will not stop, and Cabbot is like, please stop,

(01:38:55):
please stop, please stop, and she won't shut up, and
she keeps going on and on about how he made
her wear the trophies and he's sick.

Speaker 4 (01:39:00):
Fuck, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (01:39:01):
Immediate mistrial is granted, like this dumb bitch, like I
thought that they made it clear to her this could
throw the entire thing. The judge calls Cabot over is like,
I hold you specifically responsible for this. You prepped the
witness and you knew she was in a fragile emotional
state and could not stick to the scope of the questioning.
You have the privilege of now starting over, and in
the meantime, I hope you acquire some professionalism.

Speaker 4 (01:39:24):
Burn.

Speaker 1 (01:39:24):
This felt right out of the Petrovski playbook, except for
calling her Alexandra. It was basically like it was Petrovski
pre Petrovski Cabot. I think, I don't know when Petrovski started.
But Cabot looks shook. She's been scolded. Meredith apologizes to Harper.
She's like, I'm so sorry. Harper's like, it's okay, it's okay.
Clearly smirk, said Harper. He is so nasty. This man.

(01:39:45):
His name is Neil Maffin. He stopped acting in two
thousand and five, but he could have come back to
SVU as like eight different rapists. He's truly like top
five awful rapists, I think on the show. So Cabot
is in crazy. Maybe he stopped acting because he's like,
I'm literally just getting cast as rapists all the time.

Speaker 4 (01:39:59):
I have to go work on my face or something like.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:40:02):
But Cabot is in Craigan's office now, she's drinking and
she's like, do you want any Cabot doesn't know yet
that Craigan is a sober a Sally and is in AA.
So she's like, I feel like a kid who got scolded.
And then she's like, we cannot try this again.

Speaker 4 (01:40:17):
We have no case.

Speaker 1 (01:40:19):
His attorney's blue holes in the ID. The wife maybe
sabotage us on purpose. Cleary now and she's like and
how Cleary walks and the people get a black eye,
and Craigan goes, so it's all about you, and Kbbot goes,
I don't need this Kragan, which you never really hear
her say anything like that to him. I don't need this, Kragan,
And then Craigan goes, well, you're whining about your case.
You forgot about Harper and Laurie and the victims in Philadelphia.

(01:40:39):
And then he calls Meredith the biggest victim of all
because she has to deal with this guy for the
rest of her life because they share a kid. Like
can you imagine like your rapist husband gets off and
you have to like share your child with him because
there's no legal Like awful happens all the time, I'm sure.
But Craigan gets a phone call and he's like, we're
on our way, cut to Meredith Cleary running. I'm close

(01:41:01):
up of Meredith Cleary running I make up, tear stained face.
She says she came by to get some things for
her son, and Cleary hit her and wouldn't stop hitting her.
Harper is there, also, her new bff, and she's going
she didn't have a choice.

Speaker 4 (01:41:14):
He wouldn't stop and.

Speaker 1 (01:41:15):
Cleary is lying there dead on the floor, and Benson
asked who tried to clean up? And Harper goes, oh,
I did well. Meredith was hysterical about the blood seeping
into the floor. Does it make a difference? Like she's
acting so like clueless, like on purpose. It's very fake,
and Benson goes, you know it makes a difference. Harper
Bleach ruins the gunshot residue test and Harper's like really,

(01:41:37):
and Saber asks, well, who shot him? And there's a
way too long pause like these women should have gotten
their stories straight, and Meredith goes, I did, And then
we panned to Harper's smug face and that's dick wolf baby.

Speaker 4 (01:41:49):
That's the end.

Speaker 1 (01:41:50):
And there's a lot of like Reddit threads and stuff
about like who did it Harper or the wife? It's
absolutely Harper did it. Absolutely In my mind, Harper did it.
They ruined the gun residue test because I'm also sure
she got when she was cleaning up the bleach got
on her hands, so like, yeah, so she's not gonna
get any of the gun, like the gun residue. And

(01:42:11):
then it's just the fact that also he was shot
right in the fucking head, and they already showed how
she was such a good shot, you know what I mean, Like,
and I think the wife was probably like, you do it,
you get the fucking like, you get the satisfaction. And
I think the question is did the wife throw it

(01:42:32):
on purpose for the mistrials so they could do this plan,
because maybe Harper talked to her and was like, we
could do this plan, and that way he's dead and
you never have to fucking even tell your kid that
he's in jail.

Speaker 4 (01:42:44):
You never have to.

Speaker 1 (01:42:45):
He could get out in twenty years and then he's
back in your life trying to talk to your kid,
who knows.

Speaker 4 (01:42:50):
You know. I feel like it was a plot and
that Harper had this.

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
Harper had a good six months to fucking research every
in and out of this and get trained in shooting.
And then she tells, she tells Benson. You think I'm
this vigilante just trying to shoot him and that's not
what I want. Like, it's like, no, I think it is.
I think it might not be totally, but I think
you love doing it. I think it's probably a great
thrill for you.

Speaker 2 (01:43:13):
And I wish I got to see his face the
moment he realized he was about to get shot by her.

Speaker 4 (01:43:17):
Yeah, yeah, me too, me too.

Speaker 1 (01:43:20):
All right, Okay, so excited to hear about this happening
in real life.

Speaker 2 (01:43:32):
It's two crimes with two really like silly sentences, like
hundreds and thousands of years, so I don't know how that.

Speaker 3 (01:43:43):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:43:43):
Also, we should say that this episode is based on
the Kathleen Ham case, which we already covered when we
did the episode Limitations, So if you want to go
listen to the Limitations again, there's a similar It's The
Woman who Limitations is the episode where the woman won't
testify because now she's a Quaker and she thinks that
her rapist has made good and changed his ways and
she doesn't think she needs to be forced to testify

(01:44:05):
against him, and the statute de limitations is running out.

Speaker 2 (01:44:08):
This is the Bronx rapist case. Isaac sometimes Ricky Jones,
Isaac Jones, Isaac Ricky Jones, serial rapist. He's accused of
attacking fifty one victims over six years in the Bronx,
Upper Manhattan and Westchester County, but thirty nine instances because
sometimes multiple women at once, Oh my god, two or three.

(01:44:29):
He was truly a maniac. Was a maintenance worker, lived
in the Bronx. He worked the evening shift at General
Motors on Fifth Ave, and so he would finish work
around one am, and then the attacks happened around four
to five am. And you know, all his coworkers are like, oh,
he was sweet, smiling, laughing, we love him. But then
when they searched his lockers, the worker said that he

(01:44:50):
had all these women cut out from porno magazines papered inside.
And it's like, was that not suspicious to anyone? And
also like, why are you bringing corn to work and
hanging in your locker?

Speaker 4 (01:45:00):
That's so crazy to me.

Speaker 1 (01:45:02):
Yeah, yeah, that's a disordered way I think of looking
at sex and sexuality.

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
Yeah, for sure. And of course he had priors. Of
course he had priors. Convicted of sodomy in nineteen eighty three,
robbery in nineteen eighty nine, then released from prison in
ninety three and was on parole until nineteen ninety six.
But the rape started in nineteen ninety three, and the
cops did not recognize a pattern until nineteen ninety seven,

(01:45:31):
and then started working backwards and finding cases that fit
the pattern and bringing them forward.

Speaker 4 (01:45:36):
But that means he was doing all of this on parole. Jesus, Yeah,
which is like, okay, fire that parole officer. I guess
fifty one rapes, yes, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:45:48):
But if you're showing up to your parole stuff, what
does the parole officer do.

Speaker 4 (01:45:51):
They don't follow you, you.

Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
Know, maybe they should? No, I don't, Yeah, I mean
a surprise visit. You couldn't have surprised him on one
of these rapes. Like, I just I don't understand. It's
it's wild and I betty, I wonder if he was
like planning all this in jail in his head, like
or he did it pre like he did have that
sodomy charge, but like I just wonder.

Speaker 4 (01:46:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:46:12):
So he was arrested finally for his crimes with his
girlfriend outside of a Bronx pawn shop and trying to
sell jewelry that he of course, like took from a victim,
so a lot of similarities to the episodes. So the
cops sat outside the pawn shop day and night for
two months to catch him.

Speaker 4 (01:46:29):
And this jewelry was.

Speaker 2 (01:46:31):
From a Valentine's Day double rape, Oh my god, which
his girlfriend then, who was like getting the jewels, said
she was sitting with him on Valentine's Day watching the
news of the Valentine's Day double rape, so she was
like shocked at all this information as well. But like,
so on Valentine's they're like hanging out watching the news,
which is like a weird.

Speaker 4 (01:46:49):
Valentine's Day to be honest, local news.

Speaker 2 (01:46:50):
Yeah, but then they're like watching a peace on the
on the rapist Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:46:57):
He's and she just thought they were selling probably jewelry
that he had just like randomly stolen.

Speaker 2 (01:47:03):
Yeah I found or gotten, Betty. If you do maintenance
in a building, I'm sure he could.

Speaker 4 (01:47:07):
Be like I found him. Yeah, yeah, that's true. One
of the perks he confessed.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
He confessed though, to four rapes and eight arm robberies,
and then his DNA then linked him to seventeen attacks.
So I mean, he of course is like I was coursed.
I was this DNA. It's like there's seventeen Dana like
shop it just plead Dancy, just plead guilty. But he
did confess to these rapes and robberies. Other charges he

(01:47:33):
got was menacing, possession of stolen property and a weapons possession.
His victim's crazy age thirteen to fifty three.

Speaker 4 (01:47:42):
Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47:44):
And one he raped a woman in front of her daughter.
Another time raped a daughter in front of the mom
in an elevator. One time a woman was five months pregnant.
One just rejected his advances and he raped her like
he really was, like not discriminated.

Speaker 4 (01:47:58):
I don't know, just like out there raping.

Speaker 2 (01:48:00):
He got one hundred and fifty five years to life,
and then in an additional one hundred and seventy seven
years for the other crimes and so that and then
he was sentenced to three hundred and seventy five years
in jail as well from like og like a dozen
of other rapes because and it was also like Westchester, Bronx, Manhattan.
Yeah yeah, so they all there were rapes in all

(01:48:21):
of them.

Speaker 4 (01:48:22):
So he got all of these years, which I don't
know why.

Speaker 2 (01:48:26):
I think it's like funny like, I don't know if
I hate it or like it, or I could just
be indifferent and not have a strong opinion. But like,
I don't know how I feel about these kooky sentences.

Speaker 1 (01:48:35):
I know, I think that they're supposed to be like
have impact or something. But I feel like you could
just say for life, no, no parole for life.

Speaker 4 (01:48:45):
Yeah. I don't know why three hundred and seventy five.

Speaker 1 (01:48:47):
I guess maybe it makes victims feel like twenty of
those years are for me, and twenty of those years,
or you know, maybe that makes.

Speaker 2 (01:48:55):
It feel like or I was singing, if technology gets ahead,
you know.

Speaker 4 (01:48:58):
Maybe we'll get outchnically free, saying that in jail.

Speaker 1 (01:49:01):
Yeah, I was thinking that too. Actually, I was like,
you could just say for life, because that covers it.
Even if we figure out some new technology. There's some
new berry you can eat that makes you live till
your fourth hundred, you know, just like yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:49:15):
And they get free slave labor in there so they'll
keep them alive, yeah, yeap, or get new ones of whatever.
Its so hard not to go to the depths of hell. Okay,
he was not whatever. He kept saying he's innocent. He
wanted appeals he's like, yeah, I feel bad for these women,
but I didn't do it. And it's like you had
the jewelry you at the DNA, don't. I don't understand

(01:49:37):
what you're even trying to do here. His lawyer, Kevin Canfield,
said that the DNA is a perfect tool to exclude
a suspect, but it should not be used the soul
like the sole thing to idea man to send him
to jail for life. And it's like that's in the
daily news, but I don't know what are you talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:49:56):
If it's rape, the DNA puts you.

Speaker 2 (01:49:57):
In jail, Yeah, your jiz is there being like it
actually isn't.

Speaker 4 (01:50:02):
No, the DNA is actually all we need. Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:50:06):
They're always like adding things that are like it has
to be you know, it should actually be four different
points of if somebody doesn't see it happen, it can't
it's not real, you know, like it's really just and
if there's.

Speaker 4 (01:50:16):
A witness should unreliable, unreliable.

Speaker 1 (01:50:18):
Yeah, and what years was this? This was like in
the eighties, three to ninety ninety seven, So it's like
this guy was probably just like a lawyer that's like,
fuck this DNA is really fucking a lot of my
clients over because like the DNA is starting around then
you're totally right, You're totally right, and now it's like dog,
it's the standard.

Speaker 4 (01:50:38):
So don't leave your DNA somewhere where you're committing a crime.

Speaker 2 (01:50:42):
The Daily News also wrote that the judge said, you
subjected these women to tearor and no one should have
to experience this kind of humiliation. You are a persistent,
violent criminal. And then another judge, and this is in
the post. It's in the post, but this judge said,
a remorseless menace to society who hunted women and terrorized

(01:51:04):
them for his own pleasure. And that judge gave him
one fifty five one hundred forty five years. And then
one victim who spoke out the sentencing. She said she
was on her way to visit her fiance when she
was raped in the elevator of his apartment building. As
a result, my engagement ended. My fiance did not know
how to deal with a rape victim. I will never
ever forget what you did to me. Now you will
not be able to victimize another woman. Yeah, and so

(01:51:26):
that shows just like the aftermath, the like crumbling of lives,
things not working.

Speaker 4 (01:51:31):
You know. I think they definitely took a lot from
this case for the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:51:34):
Yeah, and it's probably consistent for most victims of this
type of crime. And the judges were going off. One
of them, Justice Fish. He quoted Shakespeare. He wrote, we
are reminded in Hamlet that the devil hath power to
assume a pleasing shape. That's in the times like these
these judges were really going off. He's like, he might

(01:51:58):
pretend to be chill, but yeah, whatever, you don't seem
to be as turned on by this Hamlet.

Speaker 1 (01:52:04):
No, I'm just kind of like, what does that mean?
The devil has a pleasing shape? Doesn't that mean that,
like the devil is this guy hot?

Speaker 4 (01:52:12):
Like? What are we talking about? Smiley? I think he
was like, you know, I think people like him.

Speaker 1 (01:52:17):
I'm literally googling the guy's image to be like, what
is he gorgeous?

Speaker 4 (01:52:21):
What's happening when we talking about just this fucking judge
I'm obsessed with. Yeah, there is a twist.

Speaker 2 (01:52:27):
There's a twist in a weird element of this case
is that the cops were staking out for this guy,
but instead, while they were in playing clothes, they gunned
down a different man and so I'm sorry for but
they murdered an African immigrant named Amadu Diallo, and they
decided to blame Jones for this instead of themselves.

Speaker 4 (01:52:47):
There was forty one bullets.

Speaker 1 (01:52:50):
And this is the this is the song that y Kleff,
friend of the pod, has a song called Diallo where
he sings about this and like this about this case
from y Cleff, Like because I was like, what's this
song about, and I like looked it up and it's like,
this is one of the biggest cop shootings that kind
of started a lot of the you know, especially the

(01:53:13):
NYPD racism against from the NYPD racism against black men
and just like random shootings of people who are not
even armed.

Speaker 4 (01:53:23):
He was reaching for his wallet, Diallo. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:53:27):
And so you lived less than a mile away from Jones,
but he fit the description probably just black. And so yeah,
there was all these protests against Giuliani the police, and
I'm like, I can't believe they're even trying to spin this,
like to try to blame this other guy.

Speaker 4 (01:53:42):
Like it's so it's crazy to me.

Speaker 2 (01:53:45):
All the news kept saying the cops were looking for
this man and killed another man, and that's Isaac's fault.
And it's like, no, make me side with a rapist.
You guys are fucking like so annoying to me, Like
if it wasn't and one of the judges even said, like,
if it wasn't for you, Amadu Diello would be live today,
and it's like, well, he would be alive if the
cops didn't shoot him forty one times.

Speaker 4 (01:54:05):
Yeah, And if you're wondering, the cops were acquitted.

Speaker 2 (01:54:07):
For sure, they were acquitted of the crime February two
thousand and Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:54:13):
They thought the wallet was a gun. That's what they
they thought, and they found them not guilty, and they're
blaming this other guy. It's like so crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:54:22):
So now Ronnie Shelton, we got Ronnie Shelton, the West Side.

Speaker 1 (01:54:26):
Rape Little Ronnie Shelton. Wait, why'd you say that? I
don't know, it just sound doesn't it sound like a
guy that's like a dork in an eighties movie? Well,
well it isn't little Ronnie Shelton more than two hundred
counts of rape? Yeah, asshole, he would be fucking torn
apart on the con air. They wouldn't have liked him.

(01:54:47):
Oh yeah, wouldn't have enough body. That's what I mean
for little Ronnie Shelton on conn Air.

Speaker 4 (01:54:52):
That's right, all.

Speaker 2 (01:54:54):
Right, whatever he got three thousand years, Why are these
cases together? Like so, yeah, this guy got three thousand
years for being convicted of more than two hundred counts
of rape, longest sentence in Ohio history.

Speaker 4 (01:55:08):
But he did take his own life and is dead.
But it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:55:12):
So September twentieth and you know when like a death
happens or something different and then all the stuff you
can find is about that and not the original news. Yeah,
it was like so hard to dig back. I finally
found some FBI reports, but it was just like.

Speaker 1 (01:55:25):
That happens all the time, where you're like, you're just
trying to find out what a serial killer did, and
it's like he died recently, and you're like, I don't
care about the death.

Speaker 4 (01:55:32):
Give me like age twenty of Google. I'm like, what
the fuck I'm typing in all these different other things
of like original news victim timeline. Yeah, yes, but September
twenty eighteen, he was found dead at the Grafton Correctional Institute.

Speaker 2 (01:55:48):
And it's good he's dead. He was thirty years into
his sentence, which is also a long time. But he
jumped off the roof of the prison, so that I
have a lot of questions. We don't know how he
got on the roof, but his skull was fractured and
he was fifty seven, damn. But I wonder if someone
let him get on the roof because he wanted to die,
like and Courty was like, give me the needle. I
don't deserve to live. I sayah, I shouldn't have done it.

Speaker 1 (01:56:12):
So I shouldn't have done It is kind of rough
when you've done something two hundred times. Sorry, yeah, like
a murder, a bank robbery, I shouldn't have done it,
but like, yeah, you did it two hundred fucking times.

Speaker 4 (01:56:23):
Bro.

Speaker 2 (01:56:24):
I just can't believe raping so much. And so this
is the eighties, so pre total DNA for sure. But
he terrorized women in the eighties across Cleveland for six years.
He was twenty eight years old when he was convicted
of raping at least thirty women, and they knew it
was one person because of them. And it's a again
tied back to that episode. So he always said the

(01:56:45):
same things, don't look at me, don't say anything, if
you do that, you're gonna get hurt.

Speaker 4 (01:56:50):
And that's like a local Channel three NBC affiliate in Cleveland.

Speaker 2 (01:56:55):
But so he would say that he was finally captured
on an ATM again using a victim card, Like what
is up?

Speaker 4 (01:57:03):
Stop doing that, I mean, get caught.

Speaker 2 (01:57:05):
I'm happy, but like geez, yeah, so yeah, he was
using a victim card. We got him on ATM on
the ATM camera, but he was getting caught for voyeurism
and he would like stake these women out for days,
but for some reason they kept letting him go but
also not tying him to any of the attacks, and
which is strange. But I did find a reddit so

(01:57:26):
because it was hard to find like sources for the
things I needed. But there is a book that was
written by James Nef that actually seems really really good
and I want to read it. It's called Unfinished Murder.

Speaker 4 (01:57:35):
And in the book, this Reddit guy read the book
and is talking about the book and he said how
he would break into homes all the time and he's
been a voyeur since he was young and kind of
classic bad parents. He was beat a lot, you know,
shit like that.

Speaker 1 (01:57:51):
But it is like sounds exactly like the Cheshire Murder guys,
like the guy one of the guys was like fully
a voyeur, was doing tons of B and E and
then accelerate, know, but leveled.

Speaker 2 (01:58:01):
Up, honey. He lefveled up at twelve. At twelve, he
was convicted of hammering a twelve year old dead and
he also raped a twelve year old as a child.

Speaker 4 (01:58:11):
Oh my god. So there was no rambing.

Speaker 2 (01:58:16):
He truly was like like following this guy, Yeah, like
how are we Wow? So the FBI report I found,
you know, it's zot gov that he was exceptionally verbally
degrading and vulgar. And while he would do it, he
would always like he would bring up the voyeurism. So
he's like, I've seen you with your boyfriend, I've seen

(01:58:37):
you around you know who I am. You would have
details about that and then these details are really fucked
so but like you're listening.

Speaker 4 (01:58:44):
To this podcast. But he would rape them vaginally, but
he would ejaculate on them.

Speaker 2 (01:58:49):
And so this is very like night stalker to me.
The eighties, like you could just jiz and puke and
like piss everywhere.

Speaker 4 (01:58:55):
Yeah, because they weren't testing anything.

Speaker 2 (01:58:57):
Yeah, So he was just like jerking off on every
because he would mass stbade over them and use their
clothing to wipe it off. He would then force like
oral and manual rape and make them swallow as well,
but yeah, chaotic loose with the fluids, and then the
the and the fbim O was entering a victim's dwelling.

Speaker 4 (01:59:18):
Why dwelling? What are you guys trying to be so poetic? Dwelling?
Is that a thing? I don't know? We're losing it.

Speaker 2 (01:59:28):
So his emo, he would go through a window or
a patio entrance that faced a wooded area or bushes.
He wore ski mask, stocking, or scarf. He would convince
the victim he was just there to rob them, not
rape them. But then once he had him under control,
he would go into rape mode and he would tell
them to keep your eyes down, cover your eyes, don't
look at me. I will kill you or hurt your kids.

(01:59:50):
And then before he left, he would intimidate them as well,
like don't call the police, or I'll come back and
kill you.

Speaker 4 (01:59:57):
I did like it. The other one stay also too.

Speaker 1 (02:00:01):
Yeah, but it was like he would take their licenses
or something, or he would always say I'll come back
and yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:00:06):
Yeah, and he was a cop.

Speaker 2 (02:00:09):
Yeah, but I because I liked in the episode that
it was like, I'm not going to insult you, like
you're gonna call the cops. Yeah, yeah, it is kind
you know, he's a good boy rapist. He wants to
be seen as a good guy. Isn't that what they
said in it?

Speaker 4 (02:00:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:00:27):
They did. But like he's so smarmy, like I can't
even imagine gentleman. Yeah, and you can't call a rapist
a gentleman. But you guys get what I'm saying. Okay,
so whatever before we.

Speaker 1 (02:00:41):
Don't get into the psychology in the episode, but I
think that kind of guy is like these women probably
would love this because I'm amazing. I make so much money,
I'm rich, like whatever, Like they they just don't know
that they want it, you know. Yeah, and that's why
he gets pissed when he tries to kiss them and
they like pull away.

Speaker 4 (02:00:59):
He's like, why wouldn't you want this? I'm amazing?

Speaker 2 (02:01:04):
Yeah, So intimidation, and he picked victims he could control, manipulate,
and who he could project his anger onto. And then
in nineteen eighty nine, at his trial, according to Channel three,
none of the girls for who I Okay, So he said,
none of the girls for who I am responsible for,
deserved what happened to them. So you know, okay, this

(02:01:26):
is the judge I want to have sex with.

Speaker 4 (02:01:28):
Okay, So Timothy J.

Speaker 2 (02:01:30):
McGuinty, he's an assistant Cuyahoga County prosecutor, but he handled
the case and then became a judge and then chief prosecutor.
But he said, I'm so glad these ladies outlived that
son of a bitch.

Speaker 4 (02:01:43):
That's kind of hot ap news.

Speaker 2 (02:01:45):
He also praised more than the third more than thirty
women who came forward to press charges even after this
motherfucker taunted them and told them he knew where their
children went to school and where their mothers lived and
threatened to kill them and their families if they went
to the police. And then, this is my favorite judge
mcinty to Cleveland dot Com he said he was the
devil's disciple. I've never met a person that evil. I

(02:02:07):
don't know, Like these judges are getting poetic, Like, I
don't know. These quotes are kind of fun. He also said,
like it was really brave of these women to come
forward with their names openly, despite it being a different
set of norms, and in operation thirty years ago, it's
the eighties, you could still legally rape your wife.

Speaker 1 (02:02:23):
You know.

Speaker 4 (02:02:24):
Yeah, maybe I was just horny.

Speaker 2 (02:02:26):
I don't know why I was like so obsessed with
these judges quotes. I'm like reading them back being like,
I guess they're fine, but whatever, No, and then if
you want more information, the book like Jim Knaff published
in nineteen ninety four called Unfinished Murder, The Capture of
a Serial Rapist Gez Louis.

Speaker 1 (02:02:44):
I mean, there's also something so sick about like being
like I'm just gonna rob you and like kind of
getting people to like, calm down, well, it's not you.

Speaker 2 (02:02:52):
And it also was like to get them used to
the violence and know that he was going to be
violent because like they would, they would because he would.
He would be violent, and then they would chill during
the robbing and then he would go back, but they
they were already scared. I guess that was like part
of them too.

Speaker 1 (02:03:11):
But if you're just sitting there thinking, Okay, he's just
gonna take my jewelry and then he's gonna get the
fuck out of here, and then he does, like it's awful.
I mean, it's all awful, but Jesus Christ, a wild
double episode, wild crimes. Let's we don't have a guest today,
so let's just jump right into the post mortem. Thank

(02:03:35):
you for riding with us through a double episode. I
try to recap as quick as my little brain can
do it. And these episodes are so classic for me,
Like I don't know, I mean, I wish we could
have gotten Tracy Pollend, but.

Speaker 4 (02:03:50):
And it's just an old It's like.

Speaker 2 (02:03:54):
They really reiterate how damaging it is to be assaulted
and the aftermath and all of that. But this one,
it truly is like slowed down in such an impactful way.

Speaker 1 (02:04:05):
I would say, yeah, and like I like I was
saying earlier, like sure, we've seen that from them now
a few times, but this being like the first time.
You're like, you guys really were so fucking ahead of
your time in like two thousand, like doing you know
episodes like that. So I and we got to see
Benson in bed. Yeah, the beeper king fighting over a

(02:04:28):
beeper in bed. It was amazing. What was I What
was I gonna say? It's funny, like the guy we've had,
there's so many guys on the show that are the rapists,
and I'll look them up and they'll have had like
long careers even if I don't know them from a
lot of stuff. It's almost like the guy in this
episode is like too Raypee looking like he's like because

(02:04:51):
he stopped acting like it was like he probably was,
like I just couldn't play a rapist again, like he
this guy stopped acting like and he really is one
of the work I think. I you know, what I
sometimes conflate him with is the rapist from Behave because
he's so cocky like that, like I'm never gonna get caught,
like you know, like smirking at the at the cops

(02:05:13):
and like this, and as victims and.

Speaker 4 (02:05:17):
We gotta get we gotta do Behave at some point.

Speaker 2 (02:05:19):
But I mean, that's what we're waiting There are some
we're waiting out for. We're not doing that without Jennifer
love Hewett.

Speaker 4 (02:05:26):
We are not. And did I want to know? I
know what you did last summer? This week? I did
you did original or the brand new? No? I watched
the original? Oh I forgot about the new one.

Speaker 3 (02:05:35):
No.

Speaker 2 (02:05:35):
I was in the background while I did research for
our podcasts. It's spooky season.

Speaker 1 (02:05:40):
Yeah, I think that the newest one my at least
my brother in law told me it was kind of trash.

Speaker 4 (02:05:45):
So I don't know if I'm going to watch it.
I mean, I've watched horror movies where it's like a
killer sloth at a sorority house. I think it can
like bad. I know what you did.

Speaker 1 (02:05:55):
That one really scared me. I know what you did
last summer of the original, Like I saw it in
the theater and like I was in high school and was,
so did they clean all.

Speaker 2 (02:06:02):
Those crabs out so fast from the trunk? It's hard
to move a dead body, like there are some you know.

Speaker 1 (02:06:10):
This is kind of my problem with like campy horror
classics is I think about logistics too much, and I
feel like that might be that's the virgo in me.
I am like, how they do that and no one
saw that, but like I'm always like thinking about that
kind of crap, you know. Same when I'm watching for you,
I'm trying to find holes, plot holes, baby, But I

(02:06:30):
don't know. The post mortem takeaway from this episode is like, yeah,
never say to a person, why didn't you go to
the cops, Why didn't you report it? Like we just
see time and time again. Like it's such a traumatic process.
But I do think that getting justice, I mean, she
got great justice. She got to shoot the guy fucking

(02:06:52):
dead in this episode, but like, you know, I'm.

Speaker 4 (02:06:54):
Sure there's shoes.

Speaker 2 (02:06:55):
But it's also like thinking you've moved on when you
haven't and just being frozen in time. And it's just like,
I don't know with this, we're not even in the
time machine, but like we do this while we're also
recording like full episodes and you'll know what I'm talking about,
but researching certain crimes, it's just like it's so sickening

(02:07:17):
the idea of like ruining a man's future while ignoring
that being a victim of this type of crime is forever.

Speaker 4 (02:07:26):
Yeah, the trauma is forever.

Speaker 2 (02:07:28):
And I don't know, like it just kills me that
it's even a discussion that we have to like plead
and beg and be like wait, wait, what about this
woman's future.

Speaker 1 (02:07:38):
Yeah, we're we're literally about to record an episode where
this is like fucking it's rue it.

Speaker 2 (02:07:44):
And we're worried if a guy is gonna be able
to work again or not. I know, I'm so sick
of it. I'm so sick. Oh my god, I saw
the best fucking tweet or meme or whatever. I'm online
twelve hours a day. I don't know what it was,
but it's that's something like sexism towards men isn't true
because it isn't real, because I've been trying to make
it real for years.

Speaker 4 (02:08:07):
And I loved that where it's like, oh, I've been
trying to ruin men's lives forever. It doesn't see it's
not working. It's not working.

Speaker 1 (02:08:14):
Some of the worst guys we know are getting chance
after a fucking chance, you know my god.

Speaker 4 (02:08:19):
One of them said, something is so weird to me.
I can't, I can't.

Speaker 2 (02:08:22):
These pedophiles are running rampant, and it's like, Bro, I've
been trying to avoid you, like my body language and
the way I treat you has changed so much, Like
you really need me to spell it out for you.

Speaker 4 (02:08:32):
You really need me to go.

Speaker 2 (02:08:33):
I'm uncomfortable with the rumors about you and the crimes
you've committed, and I want you to stop fucking trying
to talk to me, Like, is that what needs to happen?
Me truly turning away, shrinking, being uncomfortable, not asking that
none of that is and.

Speaker 1 (02:08:49):
It's so it's so it's weird because it's like you'd
think that these guys would be like, oh, fuck the haters,
but they do try to get everyone to like them,
especially the ones that don't.

Speaker 4 (02:09:02):
They dig in and.

Speaker 2 (02:09:04):
You know, everyone's still talking about the Saudi Arabia festival.

Speaker 4 (02:09:07):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (02:09:08):
Well, you know we did get like one comment where
people were like, the and you okay, so Lisa did
this show that I threw in New York. We were
all talking about this backstage, and we were talking about
it with like Josh Sharp and Jay Jorden, and people
are like, the US is bad too. Don't act like
our government's not doing horrible shit. A. We know, we
talk about it all the fucking time. B Neither of

(02:09:29):
us is performing at the behest of Donald Trump. Like,
it's not the same thing to perform stand up. It's
not like they went to some mom and pop club
in Saudi Arabia. They went and performed for the government
that's who paid them. The same money that pays the
people who murder and chop up journalists is paying them.
And you guys are acting like it's the same thing

(02:09:50):
to like go up at the at the at an
improv in America.

Speaker 4 (02:09:55):
It's not the same thing.

Speaker 2 (02:09:56):
Yeah, it's cliff Tony Hinchcliffe performed at a Republican and
we hate him and I judge him and I think
less of him, and I didn't even think much of
him to begin with. So it's like you're not catching
anything that you're trying to catch, and stop trying to
like this is our industry. But yeah, doing a show
for people, it's a detailed matter. The government who is

(02:10:18):
signing your check does matter. Yeah, and if I found
out someone was performing for ICE or our president, yeah,
I would not fuck with them. I would judge them,
and and I made it clear on this I could.
I will probably do more on ethical things, Like we're
all trying to figure shit out. I don't love everything
I do, and people can choose what they want to do.
But thee so it's a testing because it's not even real.

(02:10:43):
It's like you're so dumb you don't even see you're
not even making the point you think you're making.

Speaker 1 (02:10:47):
Yeah, that like I saw a video that I know
you saw because I saw.

Speaker 4 (02:10:51):
You liked it.

Speaker 1 (02:10:52):
That was like, you know, talking about Taylor's consumerism and
someone's like girl while you're drinking a diet coke and
it's like, what was she supposed to stand like naked
in front of a brick wall while she makes this
thing like yes, we're all consuming. No one is saying
stop consuming things like it's just like I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:11:09):
Everybody's what about? What about? All the time. It's driving
me crazy.

Speaker 2 (02:11:13):
Yeah, but you went and did a show for people
that did nine to eleven.

Speaker 4 (02:11:18):
I'm gonna have an issue.

Speaker 2 (02:11:19):
And I think it's different than if you did a
show for like, I don't know, if you went to
Kentucky and performed I don't.

Speaker 1 (02:11:26):
Know, right, like a red state. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, don't
agree with their government. Still the government is. But also
were the people allowed? Were women allowed to come watch
this show? Are gay people even allowed to live there?

Speaker 3 (02:11:36):
Like?

Speaker 2 (02:11:37):
What are we even talking about? I was at that
show though. Any video from that show it's half empty.
I did not see one arena.

Speaker 4 (02:11:45):
Any video.

Speaker 1 (02:11:46):
I figured phones would have been massively confiscated and they'd
be like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 4 (02:11:49):
It's propaganda videos.

Speaker 2 (02:11:51):
They're like they're truly making videos of Like I had
so much fun in Saudi Arabia. I can't believe I
didn't want to go sooner, Like they're making videos doing
the customs being like we were treated so oh well.

Speaker 4 (02:12:01):
Oh no oh no. But I mean like footage of
the show like.

Speaker 2 (02:12:03):
And it's like, yeah, it's like, uh, it's like one
of the comics walking out and you look out into
the venue and like more empty seats than filled seats.

Speaker 4 (02:12:11):
WHOA embarrassing. Well, it's also embarrassing.

Speaker 2 (02:12:15):
And it's also and what we were saying was it's
like it's it's fine, do whatever you want.

Speaker 4 (02:12:20):
But Bill Burr, shut your mouth.

Speaker 2 (02:12:22):
Yeah, you know, three years ago on your podcast there's
you're talking shit about celebrities doing gigs over there, and
now you're doing it and on your podcast talking about
how great it was. It's fine, do whatever you want.
We're all hypocrite. It's like watch my Netflix special. I
do a joke about this, but like then I don't
want to hear what you have to say.

Speaker 1 (02:12:41):
But that's the funny thing too, is like he was
kind of kind of trying to spin it like but
I was performing, performing for the regular people of Saudi Arabia.
It's like, is that who was coming were the regular
people of Saudi Arabia coming like I feel like it's
the only people that were at these shows were like
connected to the government, like right, like elites like right.

Speaker 4 (02:12:59):
It's not fair to other people at I mean, I
have no idea.

Speaker 2 (02:13:01):
I know one of the most famous comics, her wife
was disappeared because she drove a car I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:13:07):
And yeah, and I heard that that he's back and
she's still missing. He got disappeared and so did his wife.

Speaker 4 (02:13:14):
And he's listen, I'm meeting up with lots of people.
Go you wouldn't go. That's what I keep I interacted
with a few other people that went to somebody saying
that same to me, what's your price? What's your price
for the rial comedy? Fives? But enough money.

Speaker 2 (02:13:26):
It's not even hypothetical the idea of like, well, you wouldn't.
There are people who declined it. There are dozens of
people who declined it. It's not some hypothetical thing of
who can say no or not. Stop saying you would
do it when there are you would do it.

Speaker 4 (02:13:41):
You wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (02:13:42):
But there are people who said no. So there are
people who were who didn't take the money, who were
offered it. So stop acting like it's this thing that
no one could say no to when people already.

Speaker 4 (02:13:53):
Did say no to it.

Speaker 1 (02:13:54):
Yeah, people are like, it's life changing money. I'm like,
I don't know half of it's going to taxes and agents.
It's not life is And if you decide you want
to do it, fucking do it.

Speaker 4 (02:14:04):
You know what I mean. I did a show with
Louis c K. I knew he took his dick out.

Speaker 2 (02:14:07):
I don't know, Like we're all of what's going on,
and I don't think I'm more or less ethical or
moral than these people. But I'm allowed to judge you
over the fuck I want and be a guy or
whatever I want.

Speaker 1 (02:14:17):
Paul he fracks, I mean, come on, we can't be perfect,
but we're trying our best and we're not going to read.

Speaker 4 (02:14:22):
For me, it's not even about any ethics.

Speaker 2 (02:14:25):
To me, I would not feel safe, and my life
is worth more than my parents grieving for my death.

Speaker 4 (02:14:30):
I don't care.

Speaker 1 (02:14:30):
Yeah I would, I would. I would not go for safety,
yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I would be scared. So I
don't care if it's a million dollars.

Speaker 2 (02:14:37):
And I'm sorry these people were making less, but I
also don't dream of extreme wealth that's not the life
I live.

Speaker 4 (02:14:43):
What are we talking about?

Speaker 1 (02:14:44):
We just want enough to go on the fucking below
deck yacht. That's not that's not that extreme, Like we
just want that. I get ice, coffees, I don't drive.

Speaker 4 (02:14:53):
I don't know. I buy weed and.

Speaker 2 (02:14:55):
Trinkets like get me Like, I don't give a fuck
one dude that way. I was like, well, my wife said,
we'll pay for the wedding. It's like, okay, I don't
know why you think that's a necessity of life, but
sure go have a giant wedding.

Speaker 4 (02:15:06):
Yeah, you're already that extreme wealth though.

Speaker 1 (02:15:09):
I feel like you'd have a driver, you'd be like Seema,
you'd have a driver, a cool little around the city.

Speaker 2 (02:15:17):
To be wealthy, and I make lots of choices not
to be I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:15:21):
Yeah, okay, So what would sister Peg do? Our weekly
segment where we try to help make the world a
little bit better and direct you to an organization, a
doc something to give you more information about what we
talked about in today's episode, but also a lot of
times organizations that are trying to help victims, marginalized communities.

Speaker 4 (02:15:40):
Et cetera.

Speaker 1 (02:15:41):
And today listen, we're pointing you to an old standby.
We've pointed you to them before, but it's RAIN. It's
the Rape Abuse and Incest National Network. They are the
nation's largest anti sexual violence organization and operator of the
National Sexual Assault Hotline. I truly believe in supporting them.
I have no idea if they get government subsidy at all,
but I'm sure they're on there. If they do, they're

(02:16:01):
on their way to going away. So support that organization
as much as you can. We've called them out before,
and this episode just seemed like it called for it again.
Rain's mission is to stop sexual violence by supporting survivors,
holding perpetrators accountable, and creating safer communities. So for more
info and to donate, you can go to RAIN dot org.
That's our AI n N dot org. That will be

(02:16:22):
linked in our show notes as usual, uh linked as
a story the day that these episodes come out, and
all of our wwspds are saved in highlights on our
Instagram page, which is that s Messed Up pod.

Speaker 4 (02:16:36):
Go over and give us a follow.

Speaker 2 (02:16:37):
Hell yeah, and next week we will be doing Probability
of Doom Season twenty five, episode seven.

Speaker 1 (02:16:45):
Thank you all so much for watching we love it.
We love you guys, See you next week.

Speaker 2 (02:16:58):
That's Messed Up as an Exactly Write production.

Speaker 1 (02:17:01):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (02:17:13):
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.

Speaker 1 (02:17:20):
As always, please see our show notes for sources and
more information.

Speaker 2 (02:17:24):
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our.

Speaker 1 (02:17:31):
Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Coottner, and to.

Speaker 2 (02:17:34):
Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews
for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia
hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly
Right Media dub dun

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Liza Treyger

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