Conned w/ Ally Walker

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
These are our stories.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
Done done yay.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Another episode of that Semessed Up an SVU podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
I Am Lisa and I Am Kara, And every week
on this show we recap as view, we talk about
the true CREB is based on, and we interview a
celebrity guest and actor from the show, and so many layers.
It's really it is three podcasts in one. You're welcome.
What what it's okay? So this episode is coming out

(00:55):
August twenty sixth. My lord, that's after labor is it now?
It's no, it's not, bitch, I'm dumb. It's Labor Days
coming up. I'll be back in La this at this
time that this episode comes out. Right now, I'm at
my parents home, but I'll be back in La. I'm
getting to the point where i am missing being at

(01:16):
my home.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Way wild. Yeah, tell me more about this journey. I
just how did you feel on the East?

Speaker 1 (01:24):
What are your thoughts? Was it what you wanted?

Speaker 4 (01:27):
Not?

Speaker 1 (01:27):
No, I think it's been great. It's been great. We've
had a lot of fun. I got to do a
fun weekend down at the shore with some friends. I'm
seeing some friends in Vermont, and I mean it's just like, uh,
it's just a lot to be like, I don't know,
out of your house without like but you know, you're
like on the road all the time for weeks at
a time, so like, but it's just that. And then like,

(01:50):
but the kids are like very resilient. They're like down
and having a good time. But they are at a
farm camp this week and absolutely loving it. They did
not enjoy the pub camp the week before. Oscar did
try to escape. I don't know if I already talked
about this on the.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Please talk about puppet camp. The fact that you didn't
were pills.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Oh my god. The public camp was like the puppet
camp was at this kid's museum that my kids love
to go to, and I was like, Oh, this would
be great. They'll do a little puppet stuff and then
they'll go around the museum. It's like a but it's
like a kid's museum, you know, so like there's water, shit,
there's stuff to do, and like every day I'd be like,
did you go to any exhibits. They'd be like, no,
they didn't let us, Like I feel like they were
in a dark room all day just playing with puppets.

(02:29):
They let them see the museum they like, I said
something like the second day, and the councilor goes, yeah,
I'm gonna ask I think they should see more. And
then the kids were like they took us to one thing.
Like I just thought there was more them. I can't
understand why it's hard to like keep track of like
two dozen thirty kids or whatever running around a museum,
but like because there's also regular people that are just

(02:49):
there to be there, you know, I know, but that's
like life, that's what you do, I know, the job,
like I know, and they're wearing they're wearing pinnies. Like
I was like, they're easy to identify, but like they
were inside it was really hot out. It was like
are they going outside and all They're like, it's just
been so hot and I was like fair enough, but
like they just like the first day Rosie said it
was great, and then the second day she was like,

(03:11):
I'm kind of like they're not letting us out of
the room. And I was like, okay, you're in a
dark room all day. How many puppets did she make?
Or that she made a sock puppet, she made a gluppet,
which is like a glove puppet. She made some little
like hate like some little like stick puppet. She made

(03:32):
a marionette. Both her and Oscar made a marionette. How
am I transporting the marionettes back to La you ask,
I don't think I am I leaving the marionettes. I
don't know, Honestly. I went to the final show and
Oscars was Oscar quit halfway through. He came inside on
my lap. He goes, I don't want to be in
the show. I go okay, And then they did a

(03:54):
little puppet show at the end. It was like a
show in the last day for the parents. Rosie. Halfway
through the show, I literally mounted her, I go, are
you okay? And she she looked upset, and we found
out later she had strep throat, but she was literally
looked so like. But the beginning of the peppert Shore,
she was okay and she was singing along to the song,
and then it's like it hit her and she just

(04:15):
looked miserable, And I was like, I go, are you okay,
and she goes I'm tired, and I go uh oh,
and she gots off. I can feel she's hot. I
got to take her for a strap tests she gets
I will say I got her a strip test and
antibiotics all within an hour, courtesy of my mom being
a pediatrician. So that was helpful. But oh yeah, you
really got the goods. Yeah that was good. But you know,

(04:38):
my mom's not working anymore, so she just has to
call into her old place and be like you still
remember me, and they, of course like she started payless,
so they let me in. Yeah, but thank got It
was like a Friday and it was like right at closing, like,
so I got in there, got her the beds and
so did the other kids look happy or were they
also upset to be at this No, a lot of

(05:00):
them looked psyched. A lot of them look psyched, and
I think Rosie would have been psyched. I think Oscar
was like a little bit young again. I was sneaking
him into this camp too young, and that is something
I need to learn that I can't keep doing. Like
he was too young and I snuck him in as
a four year old when really it's a camp for
five and up, and he did try to. He did
run out the front door. They called me to tell
me later. That was the last day. It was like
the day of the puppet show. And they called me

(05:22):
and they were like, he ran out the front door,
but security got him. And I was like, great, I'm
glad security was on it. And then he ran through
an emergency door to go to another area. I was like, well,
he clearly doesn't like it there. But they were calling
me at one o'clock and I go, I'm coming at
two o'clock for the puppet show. There's really nothing that
can be done. They were like, Oh, we're just calling
to let you know we've got it under control. I
was like, I don't know if you do. He's breached

(05:42):
two perimeters now, but you know, I got to work.
So they do what they do. But now they're at
farm camp and they fucking love it. They're outside all day.
They're with goats, chickens, rabbits, like these huge bunnies little
baby chicks. Sounds like a camp I want to sign
up for. Yeah, it was very Lisa coated camp. And

(06:04):
like they love When I drop them off, they show
me all these things they love it. Rosie gets to
do cooking. She's the upper grades. They get to cook things.
It's great. If you live in the Connecticut area, DM
me and I'll tell you what it's called. If you
live in the Fairfield County area, I'll tell you what
it's called. Great little camp. But yeah, they're they're excited.
I mean they're they've been fine. I'm just like, you know,

(06:25):
you just get to a point where I'm like, I'm
excited for like next week I'll be with all my
sibs and stuff at my brothers. So but at the
time of the release of this episode, I will be
home and we are in the time machine.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
You guys, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna
get like joy? Like, what are you gonna do when
you get back to La God? Well, you know around
get BurgerKing impossible? Like what's your day about?

Speaker 1 (06:45):
I got a burger king impossible this week here. Actually,
that's funny that you said that I got one this week.
And my parents, like my mom's been like making dinner
every night, and I'm like, you don't have to make
a dinner every night. Like we're just gonna get impossibles tonight,
Like we're in the mood and we haven't had one
in like a month, like a long time, and she
was like. We were like, do you guys want anything
from Burger King? And my parents both acted like so
above it. They like got they were like no, and

(07:07):
then eventually they were like, Okay, actually get us fish sandwiches.
So we got them Burger King and they were like
this is delicious. They like loved it. But my dad
likes to pretend he's too good for stuff like that
sometimes and honestly he's not. So uh, he loved his impossible.
But when I go back, I have to like put
my house back together, because like I cleared it. I
like I didn't like get rid of furniture, but I
like cleared our personal shit out of the way for

(07:30):
the renters. So I got to like get all my frames,
like you hit it all. No, not like frames, but
like all of my like toiletries out in my bed bathroom,
like all the things in my bathroom drawers, Like the
bathroom was basically cleared out, like I cleared up. Yeah.
But the day after we get back is the kids'

(07:51):
first day of school, and so all I have in
my calendar to do is research for our podcast because
we record soon after. So like I don't really have
you know, too much on the cow when doing this podcast,
Like it's like it really does feel like college, Like yeah,

(08:13):
kind of.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
And so I had an early spot in the West
Village and then a really late one and so I
sat at the vest of you, like I sat at
the cellar working and everyone was asking questions. You know,
it's like me sitting on a laptop in the dark,
and yeah, I don't know. People are impressed.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Well late speaking of you just brought up college and
it just reminded me of college students like using AI
to like write their papers or whatever. But have you
seen this like meme that people are passing around that's like, yes,
I do judge you if you use chat GPT, Like
if you're seeding your creativity to a machine, I think
less of you or whatever. But what do you think

(08:59):
about people that are not like professional communicators? You know,
like people that are not like don't have like degrees
in writing and they don't talk for a living like
some people that are, Like I've talked to some friends
that use chat GPT.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
You're the library talks to a friend, right, Like you
learn you find an example on Google, Like I don't.
I agree, there's like a humanity we're willingly giving away. Yeah,
And the examples in that meme were like, yeah, I
judge you if you can't write a text to your
wife or a eulogy for a loved one without a

(09:34):
computer doing it for you, Like that's fucked. But then
I saw another me, like another internet thing where it
was like.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
There's a college professor.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
I don't know if this is real, but to get
everyone to be against AI, he basically is like, okay,
put in these topics like print out a paper from
or I don't even know if people print, like get
a paper from the chat GBT. And then it was
like fact check it and correct it for grammar, and
he said like that turns the class against it, having

(10:06):
to actually like proof freedom.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Oh, they actually see how bad it is. Yeah. So
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
I actually saw that this morning, so I don't I
didn't look further into it, but like, yeah, I do
judge you. And I had this conversation with my sister
because she was like, well, I'm not creative like that,
like I can't write this thing, and this helps me.
And it's like yeah, I have friends, there are many
resources like you and you have time and you could
figure it out. And it's like you also are a professional,

(10:32):
Like I think people are selling themselves short like you
worked for decades in a like communicating with children, Like
stop selling yourself shore obviously if someone has disability, Like
there's so many things I'm for, but I want the
human element. We are succumbing to just profit like always,

(10:52):
But it's like what who benefits?

Speaker 1 (10:55):
I mean, like I have friends that are like I
have friends that are like it takes forever to write
an email. I can't think of words this and that.
So the chat gypt just like helps me. And so
when I saw that meme, it just made me think
of this friend and like people that have said something
along those lines to me. And I'm like, yeah, if
you if you have to write like a difficult email,
I guess yeah, if you can't write a eulogy and

(11:16):
speak from the heart about somebody who who died, that
you've been chosen to read a eulogy, like that's I
there is a.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
I understand the good uses and like, yeah, you're writing
an important email and you get that, but it's like
I don't know I don't think it's worth it. I
don't think for like one woman who can't write an email,
it's worth everything that's happening. I'm just like giving it
up because at the end of the day, like we
want a functioning world, right, And like I don't know,

(11:46):
but I also might just sound like an old person
and old people always I know, I'm your technology. Yeah,
but it's like, what is life about if nothing is real?
Like I don't understand. I don't get it. Isn't the
challenge of having to write or do something that you
don't know how to do, the point of school in
life and the world around us, Like I don't. I

(12:07):
think maybe it's like the fastness of what people want
from you. Maybe that's the stress. But it's like someone
said that. Who said this on a podcast? It was
on an episode of Stradio Lab and this was years ago,
and I think I brought it up on this pod,
but was it Jake Cornell? But it's like life's about
going and buying stamps, Like that's what it is. Kurt
Vonneguet has a little thing about that, but it's like,

(12:28):
that's what that's.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
What life's about. Yeah, seeing a different person going and
doing a little craft figuring stuff out, you know, I
just I don't know doing things is cool, Yes, I
mean I totally agree and learning because people ask us
all the time. I would say, like, oh my god,
you do your own research.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
You do your own research, and it's like, of course,
like I want to have a point of view of
the research, like we could get researchers, but what is then.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Why am I doing this? Why am I any of
the And I'm afraid of you.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
And organize it in the way that I want to
tell it because it's and how do I know what
sources you're using?

Speaker 1 (13:07):
What if I'm against one er? I don't like this
or like, I mean, it's not for me that even
when I google something the AI answer at the top,
I always skip it because it's like always wrong, like
it's oh I always I do subtraction AI, so I
don't get any of the yes, really, I just scroll
past it. Like if I put it in like what
does like what.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Does this statue mean or something, the searches can still
be AI formulated like I do negative.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
A, so nothing is there interesting.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
But it's also like if I just let someone research,
like would they have figured out that like parental alienation
is actually a tactic used by abusers, Like I don't know,
there's just like I don't but I enjoy this. I
guess if I hated everything that I did, I would
do a computer too, because I wouldn't want to do it.

(13:54):
So maybe I'm coming from like a privileged place.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, And I think it's like people that are just
like I have to get this important email written and
I'm not going to writing emails and I don't. I
don't have all day, so like I'm just gonna have
chat ch and it's an unfair quote unquote fight.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
So like you're going and asking a computer with infinite
internet things and I'm being a normal It's kind of
how I felt like I was getting ready with a
friend years ago and I was watching and I'm like,
do you do all that every time? And she was
like yeah, And I was like, oh, like I didn't
realize people were doing all that, you know, Like I'm
kind of a Tintin moisturizer blush. I love getting my

(14:29):
shit professionally done, but I have I've used the same
colors and brands and thing products for years and so
watching her like powder and do all this stuff and highlight.
I was like, oh, this is an unfair game. I
didn't realize we were doing all that. So that's another thing.
It's like we all have to give up our humanity.

(14:50):
I don't get that. But like if you can't text
your partner without chat sheet, like that's what I'm saying, Well,
I trust humans, yes, but people are doing that, and
that's what I don't trust. I don't trust it. We
should not give this people because people are not trustworthy,
I know. But with a partner and they're asking the
computer stuff, I think that's nuts.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
I just feel like the toothpaste is out of the
tube onet like I don't know what we can do,
you know, and that's scary. Are human?

Speaker 2 (15:15):
I just don't get it. I don't care. I don't
get why people are not more mad about it. It
bothers me. My nephew's roasted me. They were humiliated by me.
And I get computer stuff, I get medicine stuff. I
get like helping disabled people like I get so it
has good, it has it has like I just don't
trust people. So it's like, yeah, I want to help
people that are just maybe they have dyslexia, and this

(15:38):
would change everything for them, right, like and they but
uh uh, it doesn't mean you're just because you have
dyslex You could talk something now, you can like talk
into your father.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
There's like say it dictation. Yeah, there's all kinds of things.
I didn't know how to. Well, I'm a professional speaker.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
It's just it's tough because I like when I officiated
the wedding, I got the handbooklet from the internet church
right or whatever it is, and I looked at the examples,
and then I went and talked to other people that
I know have done it, and I wrote down their advice,
and then I used the format of this thing and
put my own words in it and ask someone to read.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Like I guess I could have just put into.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Jet GBT that they like tie food and met at
Portfolio School.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
You know, it's like or I could have done that. Yeah,
people would have been like, why does Lisa sound like
a robot up there? This is weird? Is she high?
I would be devastated.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
I asked you to do a speech at a thing
that really means a lot to me, and a computer
put it together because you can't spend a little extra time.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
I don't get it. I never will. I know. I know,
maybe maybe someone will DMS and convince us, but I know,
I mean, I'm like talking about for like people that
are maybe not even using it for profit or for
something special. They're just like using it for rudimentary But
I get I mean, I get it.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
I'm taking away what they're in life. And I am
with the youth like I'm on my phone too much.
I feel disconnected, like I was in Skochie and it
was just like I nothing is new. I feel so cliche,
like I'm embarrassing. But I just I miss going to
black bus. I miss human, I miss I miss the thing.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, I miss, which I think is why New York
is like New York is such a different city because
you are just like among people all the time. You
have to be among people, like you can't be as
isolated as you can in Los Angeles. And then things
like chat, GPT and Zoom therapy and everything is like
making everybody more and more isolated. But like New York,

(17:43):
I feel like is one of the last cities that's
like holding on to, Like you have to be out
with the people, and I love that about it, you know, Yeah,
CHATGBT therapy that's scary because I have the nerd in cells.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
It's not real. It's like I have that use this
chagypt into the most misogynistic shit.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
What. I have a friend that uses chat gypt to
like walk her through certain therapy things, and she she knows.
She's like, I know how to like train it to
like help me. And I was like, wow, I don't
get it, Like I don't. I don't. I've never even
used it, Like I've never used chat GPT, so I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, and I'll eat my words if I'm wrong, but
I don't think or words won't matter.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
It's like people aren't reading.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
That's worrisome, Like, oh, who's gonna be a doctor? The
doctors are using chat gibt Like it's just scary.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
It just scares me, and I'm not into it. I'm
not into it. I don't want a driverless car.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
I want Oh my god, I do not want a
driverless car. I don't. That is so scary to me. Okay, okay, yeah,
let's get started. We've got a great episode for you
guys today, and we did not use chat gpt to
make a second of it. Oh my god, we've.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Been dying to do this episode, so I'm really excited.
I feel like we've been and it's similar to others,
you know, but yeah, we like it.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah. But for some reason, the first ten minutes, I
was like, have I never seen this episode? Like it
wasn't until it developed a little more that I was like, oh, yes, okay,
now I know I've seen this episode like a hundred times.
In fact, I confuse this episode with another episode that
we've done. I think I confuse this episode with Mother.
I like conflate that episode sometimes, but no, I remember

(19:34):
this wedding so well. Yeah. For some reason, it's like
when they're finding that, I'm like, what am I watching?
I've never seen this? But it was a weird feeling.
But then I was back.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
It is kind of like SVU and Simpsons do have
that in common, where the first ten minutes truly could
have nothing to do with the rest of it, Right,
it's just an intro and it's uh, yeah, it'll spin out.
But season eleven, episode nineteen, we're doing con and honestly,
the title doesn't actually make sense, does well.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
I think that the episode of the title is about
the first like twenty minutes, like, and I'm going to
talk about something that's related to that, Like it's mostly
about a sort of a Red Herring character.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah you know, yeahah yeah. All right, so music is playing.
We're at the end Tale of a Wedding. Okay, we
already mentioned the wedding, and a bridesmaid is sitting alone.
She's not happy she's sitting she's pissed. A man in
a red suit comes over to flirt and he's like,
I've been watching you all night and she goes, yeah,
and I've been watching you and you've tried to fuck
everyone in here, and I'm not going to be your

(20:39):
last last bet hurrah. And he's like, come on, you
got a room and she goes, yeah, with my parents
and it's like, your twenty seven, get your own room.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
What are you doing.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
You're in a fucking hotel room with your parents at
this age, I don't get this at all. He leans
in and he's like, well, I know a place where
we can be alone, and she goes, what type of
girl do you think I am? And now they're in
a closet hooking up, but she falls over and she
does fall on a dead body. Face is mangled blood
all over the face like and eyes wide open. Knock good,

(21:11):
she's hyperventilating, He's in shock. Annie's pissed because he's not
able to like get his dick wet.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
And then Melinda's on the scene quickly.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Male late teens blunt force traumas of the head, no wallet,
Benson and stalebar are like, e, that's a bad face
and it's truly been beaten off, broken teeth like, but
the purp did leave a murder weapon, so that's means like,
probably not planned, probably not a professional hit.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
And the teens dick is out, which reminds me. So.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
A comedian was on stage and I hated their materials
so much and but a part of it and I
did speak to them immediately after. I go, listen, this
might be annoying and nitpicky, like you don't have to listen,
but what you're doing is fucked up. But basic it
was a pedophilia joke, but she kept saying slept with

(22:05):
a child, and so when she got off stage, I
was like, that's actually not a thing.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
It's rape a child. You should say rape a child.
You can't fuck a child.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
And it ended up being a back and forth where
she's trying to question me and it's like, you're you're
just wrong.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
I go, I go, it's just not a thing that exists.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
It's just not a real thing because sex implies consent,
and with a kid, there's no consent. So when you
say sex with a kid, you're saying something that does
not exist, so you have to say rape.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
And she it was like, I think she was annoyed.
I guess I don't care, but just telling you about it, Yeah,
oh well, well I can't wait for you to tell
me who this is. But then she goes, well you
would say fuck a dog.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
And I couldn't think of a comment fast enough, but
I wish I was like, well, there's no dogs here
in ma Audie, like, what are you talking about? And
it is right too. She goes, do you think it
like normalizes it? I go, no, that's exactly what I
think it is. I go, the language is normalizing. It's
like when they say underage women, that's not a thing.
These things don't exist, and you're using the language of
pedophiles while like, excuse it. And then she also had

(23:05):
a joke where she goes, it's so hard to be
a pedophile that's why rich people do it, right, Like
it's so hard and it's so hard to do, and
it's like, no, it's actually the easiest thing to do.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
That's why losers do it.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
That's why losers fucking do it, because it's easy to
trick a child, like I don't know, it's just because
I like doing spicy material, like I enjoy doing edgy shit.
But it's like, what is your goal here? What is
your point? Who are you siding with? Why are you
saying this? Yeah, and why are you arguing with me
when you should actually be thinking me because you're a

(23:39):
fucking like pedophile forgiver.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
I don't know. Ew Okay, I'm glad you said something. Okay,
so now we're back.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Okay, So the teen dick is out and Stabler is
on one and he goes, well, the victim has his
own weapon out, and it's like, yeah, that's why Melinda
was called. And so there are fluids. Benson and Stabler
are like Penn and Teller here. It's really one of
them got off and then the killer off to this kid,
easy come, not so easy go.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
We need to we need one of us or one
of you intrepid listeners needs to seriously make a list
of like all the cum jokes they make on this show,
Like they make so many cum jokes. He came and
then he went easy come, not so easy go, like
so many cum jokes. Yeah, you know what that is.
This kid's sitting here with his fucking face beaten off
and you're making cum jokes. It's kind of funny. It's like,

(24:29):
where do we draw the line at Huci who like
it's confusing?

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Okay, So, but the kitchen's right down the hall from
this janitor's closet, so someone must have heard something and Minch, I.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Said, Minch, Minch, Finch is fan munch fan fiction. That's Finch,
Is it really? No? I made it up honestly. Okay,
that's our new thing.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
So Finch are together right, so fun Okay, fin Shirt
canvassing the staff. We got a chat with the lovebirds
as well, so and looking at them, it seems like
this trauma is gonna make them last long term. Like
I like, they're suddenly like really into each other, but
they're both like it was so fucking gross. She goes

(25:19):
my hand landed on his crotch. They saw the guy
at the reception and this dude's actually a server. That's
why he's wearing a red suit, and everything makes more sense.
But he remembered the shirt because the guy like he
was serving him drinks all day. So this kid not
only had a bunch of drinks, he also had a
whole tray of many keysches. So they asked, like bride

(25:39):
or groom side, but nobody fucking knows, but we did.
What we do find out is the bride was yelling
at him, and then the father of the bride threw
the sky out, and then the woman's like, listen, my
friend is a bridezilla, but I don't see her killing
a dude like a teen and scratching off his face
bloody and Benson, it makes a little joke again and goes,
maybe he gave her the wrong China pattern.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
I think if you're wearing all white and you bash
someone's face in, there's gonna be a couple of droplets.
We're gonna have to get Dexter in there, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 2 (26:09):
It is crazy, like Dexter's giving me a drellale that
I haven't had from something in a while, Like I
just love it, like I missed him, like I don't know,
I'm obsessed.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Same kid playing his son from They didnt recast it,
did they?

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Okay, And even Stabler looks at Benson like, bitch, relax,
stop with their little China jokes.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Come only here. And we're in the credits.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
We're in the credits and we're talking to the bride
and groom in the lobby and they've never met the
city it before wedding crasher.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
He made a toast which is so bold.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
And then the groom, who is played by an actor
who's also in season sixteen Agent Provocateur with Patti Lapolm.
His name is Kareem Savillan, and I recognized him from
the other like, I went, this is an SV guy
and it was so I felt it was.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
The groom who has like one line in this You're like,
I've seen him in another one. Yeah, a symptom of
the illness, yes, But also he's in an episode of Girls.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
He was the door guy that Showshana Me makes out
with in season two while she's dating Ray. So whatever,
if you're listening, I recognized you immediately. But anyways, he goes, oh, man,
that was the best toast of the night, and it's like,
what duds.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Are you hanging out with that? The best toast was
done by a tea and you've never seen a stranger,
he said.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
People were in tears, but then they realized nobody knew him,
and so the dad walks into the lobby and he's like,
that mooch, he ruined my fucking wedding. I could have
killed him, and it's like, you shouldn't say that to
the police, but the dad just threw him out the
fire escape. So now Finn is watching the footage with
hotel security, and you know, it's a good looking guy

(27:49):
before his face was bashed in and that's I don't
know if I said that or Finn, so I don't know,
but the only way back in. The security guard says
this through the lobby, but no one ever came in
through the front, so how did he get back in?
So we keep watching the camera of this back exit
and someone opened the door for him, so it has
to be someone from the reception. Now we're back to

(28:10):
footage from the lobby and we see him going up
in an elevator with another man and it's an old
guy and they get off on the seventh floor and
into the same hotel room, so uh oh, someone's getting lucky.
And this guy has been in four SVUS Sacrifice, True
Believers and Townhouse Incident. His name is Kevin gear And
who sadly passed away in twenty seventeen. And he's playing

(28:33):
a man from Utah with a wife and six kids.
So he's like a in the closet devious type of guy,
and he's trying to lie to Finn. But when Finn's like, hun,
I saw the security tapes, this guy's face drops and
he is the bride's godfather. And basically he was chatting
up with this teen all night and the teen brought

(28:55):
up going somewhere. The boy's name was Jack, and he
charged two hundred dollars, but he's denying the killing. He's
like he was in and out in an hour, and
he goes, Andy's a thief. He stole my rolex, but
the rolex was not found on the body, so now
where with Stabler? And he found an ID So it's
a sixteen year old Andrew Hingham and Jake is a

(29:16):
fake name, which is like fine, if you're, you know,
out there selling sex, you can you can go by Jack,
you know, But do guys do sexy names like girl
strippers and stuff like do guys have like diamond or
you know, passion?

Speaker 1 (29:29):
I think, I mean, I just go my mind goes
right to Jax Taylor, whose name is Jason Coucy, you know,
like he definitely made his name more like kind of
hot Jason to Jack's like, yeah, but I don't know. Yeah,
I don't know if girls do, Like what was the
one we just did where we talked to the girl
from passion? Yeah, passion, Like I don't know if they

(29:49):
do a little like because what would your name be? Like,
I don't know, Yeah, I don't think guys do little names,
but yeah, like I don't know if Jack is hot,
but I guess Jack's hotter than Andrew. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Anyways, So Finn joins him, and it's like, damn, I
wonder how this old man's gonna explain rape of a
male miner to his wife, and also where is the watch?
And where did you find this wallet? And now much
comes out and he's been digging in the trash, so
he's the one I found all this, and nobody but
the kitchen staff has access to that trash. So now

(30:23):
they're going to ask everyone that works in the kitchen.
So somebody did rob this child after like this illegal
sex work thing. I mean, it's really it's really a lot.
So we're talking a lot. It's a lot of steps
he had.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
I would say he had a very different night, you know,
so many elements of his night, sneaking into the way.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
Like there's just like a lot, a lot going on.
So one of the workers is wearing a watch. He
stole it. He goes when the girls screamed, they all
went running and he grabbed the watch and wallet and
he said the wallet was empty. He swears, But they
arrest him and the old man and they put him
in the cages in the middle of the precincts. Craigan
walks by them and goes shut up. So now they're

(31:05):
having a center squadroom meeting, and I think it's weird
of a meeting about the case with the two people
caged up in like listening to the meeting, No.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Yeah, that is weird. Like they're right there and they're like, Okay,
who do we got suspect twice It's like these two
guys that are with an earshot. That is strange.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, So now they're having a center squadroom meeting. I
did just say that and I repeated it, so they
do have evidence that this Utah man stayed in his room.
And also the kitchen dude was like, take my DNA
here and my prints. I don't care, but the watch
is twenty five grand and that's a felony grand larceny,
So what a bad decision? Like you probably thought nothing

(31:43):
of it, and it's like you're going away for a
fucking felony. And he's not a citizen because he was
scared of Like yeah, he was like, don't deport me.
And also did you notice like that even in this
episode which came out in like twenty ten, uh Munch
at the beginning of questioning, all the kitchen workers goes,
we're not we don't care about your immigration status.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
We're not with IC. But they don't say ICE. They
say IC and it's like, wow, that was like a
term that wasn't even in our minds in twenty ten,
you know, yeah, and now it's like unfortunately always on
our minds.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
But bummer, Okay, now bigger bummer. Benson and Stabler go
tell Andrew's mother that her son is dead, so she's crying.
They're still trying to get scoop out of her though,
and it's like, can you just give her a few
seconds to more in the death of her son, like
I don't under like she needs to help investigate now,
But she explains her son's always been depressed and she

(32:37):
wants to see her son, and they're like, bad idea, babe,
Like the face is fucked. But they ask her for
a toothbrush or hairbrush or anything that can do some
DNA confirmation on him since his face and teeth are gone.
So she says, the room is just like he left it,
and so they're like, well, what do you mean left it?
He ran away seven months ago. He calls every Sunday

(32:58):
and Skype and she's been waiting all day for his call,
and he came back once back home, but it was
to steal her laptop. So now we hear the Skype
ring tone ringing, and she's like, wait, wait, I only
talked to him on there, and it's fucking Andrew.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Andrew is alive.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
He has a black eye, and he says I'm scared
something bad has happened, and the mom is just so
happy he's alive, and then he realizes the cops are there,
and he disconnects immediately and he says, don't tell them
anything right before hanging up. She's like, why the fuck
did you scare him away? You stupid assholes, And dramatic
music plays, and now the detectives are back at work.

(33:32):
Craigan is apologizing to the mom over the mix up,
huge mix up?

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Do you think like they give like do they have
gift cards?

Speaker 4 (33:38):
Ready?

Speaker 1 (33:38):
You'll be like, my bad, but here's two hundred and
fifty dollars, Like well, I'm yeah, Like you would think
they'd say, we know your son is missing. We add
some like can we get the hair brush or the teeth?
They didn't know they didn't know the sun was missing.
They found out there, right but right, but like before
you say he's dead, you just go, we do have
like you know, maybe you don't say definitively he's dead,

(34:01):
just we need help in identifying, Yeah, like an out.
Their eye colors are different, like you couldn't even be like,
what eye color is your son?

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Like they just went off this ID, but the ID
and the body's eyes don't match. Wait, yeah, dude, god,
we're good. Okay, So Craigan's like, don't worry those detectives
are off the case. That seems like a lie, but okay,
Craigan goes on and asks, why, oh, but Finn does

(34:29):
take over.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Finn does take over most Yeah, I was gonna say
Benson and Stabler are sort of gone the rest of
the time.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
No, Yeah, it's fin heavyer right, So there is no lie.
Craigan's setting setting up the Those two are busy. They
had like they had to go to like the fucking
upfronts or something. There was like a reason they had
to let let them out for the day. Craigan goes
on and asks, why why would this like dead man
have her son's I d She doesn't know because he
has no friends. She also denies that her son is

(34:57):
gay or a sex worker, but she's more pissed about.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
The gay than the sex worker. So just like preference,
I guess.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
But he's been living on the streets and she and
so he could be you know, like USh. But listen,
she's like, first he is dead, now he's gay. Let
me tell you how wrong you are. He was accused
of raping a girl last summer.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
What just she's like bragging on it to be like
my son is an accused rapist of women, not like
just because it would be so bad, like the gay
panic of this woman is really on another level, Like
that's a wild thing to just offer the police about
your son who's on the run and just said something
bad happened, like so crazy, So we need more info

(35:46):
obviously on all that. So someone called the girl's parents
and told them that Andrew forced her to have sex
against her will. The psychiatrist talks to the school like
his psychiatrists and the parents and everyone, and convinced them
that Andrew belongs in a hospital, not in jail, and
it's because he's super depressed. And Craigan's like, okay, but
that's not usually like a defense for rape. But the

(36:06):
mom says, well, doctor Stanton said that Andrew had a
complete mental breakdown. She diagnosed him with early onset schizophrenia.
He was hospitalized in August and in October there was
a huge escape, and she says that people convinced him
to run away, like with them. You know, she's a
boy mom, so it's not his idea. I thought the
same thing. It was like another hashtag boy mom.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
He's very suggestible, she says, always desperate to belong So
Craigan and Finn are in a hallway and he is
the suspect. Craigan goes, okay, how about we figure it
out fully before you know, fucking with this mother again, Like,
let's just figure shit out. So Huang is there and
to be like, well, you know, hallucinations and voices can
lead to violence, but most people with schizophrenia aren't a

(36:50):
danger to like themselves or others.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
So we'll see. But I also we've seen it happen
on this show before.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Fit is like, okay, he is depressed, then rapes a girl,
then goes to the nuthatch, and then what's a nuthatch?

Speaker 1 (37:03):
That's a mental hospital. Yeah, it's like an insensitive way
of saying it, like looney bin essentially for sure.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
But for some reason I was thinking like sneaks into
a wedding, so I was like, I didn't know nuthatches are, Like, okay,
So Finn says he's depressed, then rapes a girl, then
goes to the nut atch, and then possibly murders a
gay hustler. That sounds dangerous to Finn, but Huang is like,
listen to the listen you know, like the younger you are,

(37:32):
the harder it is to treat schizophrenia, and sixteen is
pretty young to have schizophrenia, like it's usually more just
later teens twenties. Munch comes in and he has photos
from the photographer at the wedding, very episode wet, and
he says, our victim wasn't the only party crasher. And
in the background we see Andrew alone in the background

(37:53):
of every photo. So now it's maybe Jack and Andrew
are partners. But like this boy looks.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Really really sad.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Maybe he's like mad that this guy like that his
friend Jack went with this old Utah man and then
dragged him into the storeroom and murdered him in a
jealous rage. And this is like Munch's little hypothesis. So
since he might be a danger, we need him off
the streets. Craigan wants to release the photos of Andrews
to the public.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
This seems crazy.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
Craigan asks Swang to see how a bunch of people
were able to escape Bellevue as well.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Maybe the Annabelle doll was around.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
So he goes, well, you mentioned he's being treated by
doctor Stanton, so I'm gonna start there. So yeah, Hwang
goes to meet her she's super hot, half hair pulled,
like you know, half up, half down?

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Is there a name for half up half down? Or
I have to say half up half down? Every time
my whole life had says have said some hair up
some here down there is like think that there is.
I don't know if there's a name, but I've always
said some her up somewhere down.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, I don't know why, like a man in the
iron mask hare, like there needs to be a name.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah, like a half Nielsen or something. I know that's
like a skateboard move, but like, yeah, there should be
like a name for it.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
So she's telling Huang that if I mean to have
a character named Huang when the real actor's name is Wang,
is like so fucked up.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
It's like, really, they're they're fucking with us. Yeah, I
don't know if they could have known that we would
someone would be talking about in this detail, this stuff
that we do, but it is.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
It drives me fucking crazy. But she's like, if he
was under my care, he'd be a fully functioning member
of society. Alie Walker is the address, and she is
the address. She's the actress and.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
I love her because she has always stuck out to me,
like she was in Sons of Anarchy as like an
FBI agent who's really trying to get I think she's
an FBI agent. She's like really trying to take down
Jax Teller and the gang. And she's really good. Yeah,
she's great.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
And she got her start on something called Santa Barbara episodes.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
Oh soap. Yeah, so that's like really exciting.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
I just know they're the like I just know people
that do soaps are really good memorizers, and I become
immediately jealous, you know, I'm like, cool, you memorizing, bitch.
So anyways, in the background, someone is getting electrocompulsive therapy,
so someone's truly shaking getting electrocuted in the background while
being held down. It's like really fucked. And Huang is

(40:20):
judging her and asking about ECT and she's like, listen,
I'm a fan.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
I love it, and it's just like really hard to watch.
She's like, there's actually like no problem with it. They're like,
maybe that's the reason he ran away. She's like, no,
he actually like loved that, like this was his favorite part,
like having a spoon in his mouth and getting fully electrocuted.
He loved it.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
God, she walks off and is like, listen, a carn
artist scammed his way into the hospital under a voluntary commitment,
and Andrew fell under his spell. He this like, this
guy was not her patient, but he wreaked havoc on
the whole hall. And the guy's name was Jack Robinson,
so he scammed keys, he passed three guards, stole ten

(41:00):
brand in medical stuff from the pharmacy, So this guy's
really wild. And Melinda does find Jack's prince in the system.
Something popped up. There's identity theft where he passed himself
off as Donald Trump's son.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
Well I miss that, yeah, wow.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
And Melinda also said that his talk screen reads like
Elvis alcohol, Benzo's opiates methamphetamines. Prince on the weapon are
not in the system though, and they don't match anyone
in the kitchen staff, but it matches the prince she
got off of Andrew's brush, So did Andrew do it?
And Munch is like, but why would he leave his

(41:39):
id there if he did do it? And also Jack
is nineteen, so Utah guy actually gets.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
No rape charges.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
He did not rape a minor, but his wife's still
matt and refuses to pay his bail. So hella, but yeah,
so it's like normal sex work. So Melinda goes, I
only found Utah's semen, only one set of stemens and
so and the detectives ask more questions, and she goes, listen,
his father's coming up to id the body, maybe talk

(42:07):
to him to get some answers. We meet the dad
behind and like you know, behind the glass, and like
they put the sheet back over his dead son, and
he says, I guess Jack finally conned the wrong person.
The dad explains that his son has been running get
rich quick schemes from the time he could talk, and
the mother always believed him, but like you know, the
dad just knew better, and the mom just kept giving

(42:29):
him money. He goes, my son was a genius, but
once he left, he just like never came back. And
they would get video postcards, but that's all he knows
about his son. And the videos are like really creepy,
and he does look exactly like the blonde Trump son Eric. Yeah,
and he's in a suit and he's pitching his parents
an investment opportunity and he needs ten grand and it

(42:50):
ends with and I love you, and his mom gave him,
you know, one more shot and sent him money, but
like to wear, what's the address? And the only address
that he had was a place he volunteered called Willilliam's home.
So Finn goes to William's home and he knows somebody there.
Finn walks in and it's Ken. It's his son, former
guests of the pod. He doesn't want to chat with him,

(43:10):
even though they haven't seen each other in months. And
you know, Ken is acting busy, and he goes, what
do you want? Like this better be a friendly chat
because it's about one of my kids. This can't be good.
And he shows him a photo of the boys and
Ken goes, that's frickin' frack. Fenn says, well they were.
Jack was murdered and Ken is not surprised because Jack
lived on the edge. Finn says his father said he

(43:32):
volunteered there, but Ken says he never helped anybody but himself.
He only crashed there when like something better had fallen through.
But like that makes sense, why wouldn't you, like right,
I would sleep somewhere better too before going to like
a worse pla Like I don't get oh that's a
sign of you know, dban behavior. But now tell us

(43:54):
about Andrew. We hear he's a good kid, and Ken's like, yeah,
I can reach him. I feel like I can reach him,
but I Andrew hasn't been here in days. Finn wants
like a call if he shows up, and to ask around,
and he's like, no, these are street kids. They're not
going to round each other. Finn doesn't like that and
gets loud and in Ken's face and he's like, is
there something you're not telling me? And he goes, these

(44:15):
kids trust me and I never told them. My dad's
a cop for a reason. And Finn reminds him, you're
not a priest. Your shit's not privileged, and he goes,
I'll ask around, and that's just to shut him up.
So now we go to Taru and you know, Joel
de la Fuente is there, Ruben Morales, so many names. Okay,

(44:36):
they're trying to crack into his computer that he stole
from his mother using her password, and I know you
can do this, but this seems crazy.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
But they're controlling the computer.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
He has access to the webcam too, so they'll like
see anything that's in front of the webcam and they're
just like working his computer because the laptop's just on
and open and ready to go and can just access it.
And why would the mom give her password up? Nothing
makes sense.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
I swear that the mom gives the password up because
she seems pissed at the cop. She's like, first you
said he was dead, then you said he's gay, now
you want now you want my password? Like it is weird, Yeah,
but she gives it up. So we're watching live and
we see all these buildings and like, yeah, they use
the buildings to get the location, and we're on the scene.
Finn and Munchs are waiting. It's a nice apartment building.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
Finn leaves Munch though, because his son lives a few
blocks away, so he's like, you know, I feel like
Ken's holding something back, and he lives a few blocks
from you know this wherever Andrew is or Andrew's laptop is.
And so Finn goes in, but Ken doesn't live there
anymore since December, the old woman says. The old Woman's like,
I've been living here since December, and I checked the

(45:41):
time stamp and it's February sixteenth, so it says two
and a half to three months, like right February December
to February, but later month says five months.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Come on, guys, let's get the timeline correct. I've become
the dork. I hate detective. I've become an embarrassment.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
So it's post Valentine's Day, okay, but so Ken's holding
a lot back, like Ken moved and didn't. But the
woman has his mail and she wants she needs to
get it to him, but she does not want to
give it to Finn until Finn says that he's a
cop and the father.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
But wouldn't the father know.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
They'll give you as an act of good dad or
a co like, wouldn't they have the address?

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah? Still suspicious and this is why the elderly are scammed.
They're not thinking. So she also and.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
She goes, oh my god, I love Ket, You've raised
like an amazing son. He left self address, stamps, envelopes
for her and she gives everything over to him and
gets what the new addresses. The fucking building that Munch
is at so much goes you find anything, and Finn
says high blood pressure. Ken moved into this building five
months ago, and like I said, not according to my math,

(46:51):
but maybe he's like exaggerating and wants something, but this
is no coincidence. His son might be harboring a killer.
So we jumped to Finn just like pushing it through
Ken's door, pushing him against the wall. Ken goes, are
you crazy? But Finn's just pissed. They're screaming at each other.
Ken goes, he moved in here with his boyfriend, and
Finn goes, you're banging this kid, and Ken is pissed.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
He's a minor.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
And you think I'm a pedophile because I'm gay, and
Ken screams, Andrew is straight, and Finn goes, yeah, right,
his best friend's a gay hustler. And Ken has to
break the news that straight men and gay men can
be friends. They're allowed to be friends, and Finn goes, yeah, okay,
and so what's Andrew doing here? Ken says that he
found him waiting on his stoopid when he got home

(47:38):
and someone had beat him up and he was very upset.
Finn is so pissed that he has street kids at
his house and that he's doing counseling sessions there. And
Finn's fuming, like you're letting these street kids in here
lude steal anything, and Ken screams, I'm trying to get
them off the street, and I love him, So Ken

(47:59):
says that he had him convinced to go back to
his mom's house, and Andrew just stores his computer here
to skype with his mother, and Ken gives him privacy.
But when like Ken entered the room, Andrew was running
freaked out. But honestly, at the end of the day,
like stop fighting and find this kid, Like we're done
with your little family trauma. Let's go father son, get

(48:20):
to work day. So you know, diddy Murder's friend is
someone trying to kill him? Like is he in danger?
What is going on? Where could he be? And Ken
finally does like help his father. So where do like
street kids hang out? Hospital Er is a good place
to chill, and then they like a hotel conference room
is a place to hang out, and they don't look homeless,

(48:42):
so they could always just pretend to be like drunk guests.
And then also the Metropolitan Opera House, like they go
in as everyone's being let out and they hang out
in the lady's lounge because there's like a separate powder
room and comfy couches, and that's where Ken does find
him sleeping. It's super pretty and pink, but Andrew freaks out,

(49:02):
like you brought the cops with you, and then Finn
arrests him. Fuck you, Finn, like be chill. And then
Andrew's screaming like you betrayed me. I thought you were
my friend. I trusted you. Ken feels bamboozled too.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
He's screaming like you just said you were gonna question him,
what are you doing?

Speaker 2 (49:20):
But they actually can't even talk to him till his
mother gets to the scene. So he's in cement room.
Bars Kwan, Kragan and Finn are on my shit list
right now watching Andrew, but Huang is actually happy, like
you know, he's off the streets.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
Ken gets a call from Andrew. He runs in.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
He wants to talk to him, and they allow him
to go in there because he's not acting on behalf
of the NYPD, but they're listening, of course, but Andrew
spills the truth to Ken. He's like, I hated that wedding.
I didn't want to be there. I was relieved when
he was kicked out, but he wanted to go back in.
I should have left. I should have left when he
went to go have sex with that guy. But we
had plans to steal caviar from the storeroom, and Ken

(50:00):
is so disappointed, like, Jack sucks, you can't trust him,
what are you doing? And he goes, But he's the
one who saved me from that mental institution and he goes,
you know, with Jack, I feel alive again. And this
guy's such a good actor. And he plays Morello's Morello's right,
is he not? Morello's person in Orange is a new Black?

Speaker 1 (50:22):
I think he is. But he's also in the another
SF episode later called Institutional Fail, the Whoopy Goldberg episode
Oh my God, where he's like the other like he's
like the young social worker that's like he's like, you know,
he doesn't know how many he has so many cases
to keep up with.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
You're not gonna believe this. I brought up Institutional Fail
yesterday to somebody. I bring it up all the time.
I mean that like monologue Whoopy Goldberg does just like really,
oh my god. He was in The Materialists, Oh yeah,
John mcgarough, like he's I watch that though, Why don't
I remember him? I saw that in the movies. He

(51:00):
was in Past Lives. He has a really amazing career,
and it makes sense. He's like so good in this episode.
He is really talented. Yeah, Orange is the new Black.
Vince mcm I don't know, I can't say it.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
No, but isn't John Morgaro also good friends with Ari Grainer,
didn't he? She bring him up to us in like
one of our first foy That was our third episode
we've ever done. If you think I remember who Ari
Grainer said that, she remember her talking about how they're
good friends. I feel like I remember that. But he's
very he's very, very working, very good. How crazy is this?

Speaker 2 (51:31):
He's born February sixteenth to nineteen eighty three, and this
episode takes place on February sixteen.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Oh little b day birthday episode for him, Yes, John Magaro.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
So then he says, oh, no, I can't believe I
killed him. So Ken's screams, stopped talking, but he doesn't.
We need to know what happens. So he tried to
kiss him, so he shoved him off, and he got violent.
He was flying high, he was on meth and he
tried to rape him orally. And so you know this,
Andrew is hitting Jack. Jack's trying to rape Andrew and

(52:05):
they're like physically fighting, and then he pushes Jack and
he hits his head and he stops breathing, but eyes open,
and you know, Andrew's so upset. He's like, I knew,
he knew I wasn't gay. I can't believe this is
happening to me again. I trusted someone. And he goes,
I was so mad that I smashed his face with

(52:25):
with whatever I could find. I was so pissed. And
then it's like, okay, but why'd you leave your wallet?
And he goes, well, I panicked his face was gone.
I thought if he was dead, and like people thought
I was dead, then I could finally get away. Hwang
and Craigan are doing a walk and talk and they're like, well,
it's self defense, but also like how do we know this?
So I'm glad they're like on board with the self

(52:47):
defense of it all, but like, you know, we need
to make sure it.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
All aligns with evidence.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
But also he said, you know, like I'm trying to
get away, like I want to finally get away. So
who what is he talking about? Is it his mom?
And Craig then calls his mom a pill popper. But
then we find out, you know, Andrew's always been depressed
and we're just waiting for Huang to give us some scoop,
and he thinks, you know that Andrew has all the
red flags for abuse. Huang goes to talk to his doctor,

(53:13):
Stanton to get more information. So Craigan sees a girl
sitting at the precinct as Huang leaves to go talk
to the doctor again. And this girl is looking for Andrew.
So her name is Mallory Sidwell and she's the girl that,
like Andrew, was accused of raping and got sent to
the hospital. And Craigan's like, oh, don't worry, he's in custody, like,

(53:35):
you don't have to be scared, and she goes and no,
he didn't rape me. This is a giant mistake. I
never even accused him. Whoever told my parents he raped me?

Speaker 1 (53:43):
Lied?

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Andrew is my boyfriend. So Huang is now asking Stanton
about Mallory and she says, the sexual assault with the
schizophrenia happened all at the same time, and he just
wasn't in charge of his actions. But then she sees
Mallory in wood room blind.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
So I don't know how this time worked out and
how Stanton got here, and see like this.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Is all a little silly, silly, I mean, yeah, I hate.
I don't like poking holes because I'm not here to
do that.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Oh I do. I mean there's a lot. There's also
like how much trouble could you get in if somebody
randomly calls parents and says, did this boy rape you?
And then you go, no, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't.
He's still getting in a ton of trouble. Like I don't,
I don't get it. Like, I guess you could, you know,
punish kids for having sex too young or whatever, but

(54:32):
like it seemed like this kid got institutionalized based off
something that the girl, the quote unquote victim said never happened.
So that's what I don't guess.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Yeah, but I think it's kind of like statutory things
like if the parents want it.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
Yeah, but he's sixteen, yeah you know. So yeah, I
don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
So you're right, you're right. Okay, So so Stanton, I
guess is a meeting? Ahnglong didn't go meet her.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
She brushed over, sees Mallory in woodroom blinds and she goes,
why is she here? And Wang goes, well, she says
it was consensual, and the doctor goes, well, you know,
classic guilt reaction. Victims blame themselves, but Stanton is blaming
Mallory on the onset of all the psychotic stuff that's
going on with Andrew and that she was actually doing

(55:20):
all these.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Sexual advances, so I don't care what's happening. Quang is
trying to come up with an answer to all this,
and Stanton is knocking all of them down. She's like,
if I didn't get involved, the violence would have escalated.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
I'm a hero.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
And Kwang's like, oh, you told Mallory's parents, and she goes, well,
I was legally bound to you know.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
He was still a threat to her.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
So it's like, wait, so she's sexually advanced and then
he's a threat to her, Like I don't understand what's
going on. Yeah, And he's like, wait, so you had
him committed instead of jail. His mom must have been
happy with that. But she looks down and that means liar,
and she says, well, I don't treat Joyce, but I
know that she has struggled with her own issues, and
I think she was overwhelmed with her later in life child.

(56:03):
She says she's been seeing Andrew for about four years
and there were tons of barriers that she couldn't break through,
and Huang doesn't like her and is like, Andrew talks
about getting away. Maybe he was talking about Mallory, not
his mother. And she's lost and confused and she's like wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
oh my, you talk to him. She's like, I want

(56:24):
to talk to him, but like Huang goes, no, you
can't talk to him till he's arraigned. So now we're
at the office of eighty A. Kendra Gill who is this?
Who is who is Kendra Gill? Who is this woman?

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Who is she? So sorry? It sound like I was
yelling at you.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
So Finn's there too, and basically this lawyer is screaming
at them like get it together, and Ken's like, I'm
done being used. I'm not going on the stand and
he's not helping him put away.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
And so Kendra Gill is a defense attorney who later
becomes a new Jersey eightya I think, oh does she
do shady as shit?

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Is she in the episode where she's shady and like
doing something bad and gets caught lying?

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Or like she's later in Father Dearest and Rhodium Knights,
which are the Delia Banks episodes, so I don't know mine,
and she actually becomes she's yeah, she's a Jersey Ada,
and then later she's a New York Ada who works
with the SVU. I don't know. It's I don't know.
They got this lady a lot of times. Gretchen Eagle
if we've talked about her, because I've looked up that

(57:32):
name before. Yes, what that's the answer to the age
old question who is Kendra Gill?

Speaker 3 (57:37):
Go on?

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Is that merch? We all everybody just wears who is
Kendra Gill? Merch around?

Speaker 2 (57:46):
So whatever, he's not on the stand, but we're they're like, listen,
he's only looking at probation, you know, for going to
town on the dead body. It all seems accidental, like
this is chill and Ken's like, oh wow, thank you.
So now that that's done, daddy needs infoam So Ken's like, listen,

(58:07):
the mom's an absentee parent.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
They bonded over that. So like that's kind of shade
to Finn as well. Yeah, Finn doesn't even like clock it.
I feel like half the time Ken will be like,
oh cause you were like the worst dud ever in
Finn's like anyway, like he never cares, Finn on paper
is truly just like a video games strip club guy
bad Dad, but we love him bad dad who was

(58:32):
originally a Republican. Yeah, hates immigrants. Oh man, whatever was
there abuse in the home? He goes, No, just booze
and pills, like she never did anything to him. Ken's like,
you think she like hurt him, and Finn says, I
don't know, but I want to make sure he's safe
whenever he gets home after he makes bail. So Finn
goes to talk to the mom to see if Andrew's there.

(58:54):
She goes, I'm gonna go pick him up right now.
Finn goes, no, he was bailed out that morning. She says, no, no,
I'm on my way now. It took me a second
to get the money together, but somebody already paid bail.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
So like, wait, what's going on? And why didn't he
come home? So what's happening? Like is he not coming
to you because you're abusing him? And she's like, I
have never abused him, and I do believe her because
she's so shocked by the question, and but like, why
isn't he coming home? And it's and she's ashamed. She
is ashamed and she doesn't know she the best she could.
Finn says, okay, well, let's go find out who bailed

(59:25):
him out. And where do we go? Doctor Stanton's house.
She's in a silk robe. She looks like she just
got fucked and she posted his bail and Finn and
Huang are there and she's babbling and Finn calls her
a lady. He's like, listen, lady, and she says she's
doing the best thing for her client, and Huong goes
really moving in with a patient a little unorthodox. She

(59:47):
tries to slam the door, Finn does not allow it.
He pushes in, runs up the stairs. George is well
like following, and Andrew's on the floor. He's drugged up,
and she goes, well, he's been off his meds for months,
so I'm easing him back into his regimen, but he
is zonked out. George is like, we're just here to
make sure you're safe, and then we hear a baby cry.

(01:00:08):
Everyone freezes, and Andrew just wants to sleep. Things are
not good. But also this woman's in a silk robe
while she's with a patient, and she's giving him drugs
in her bed and who is this baby?

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
And they left I can't believe they leave him there.
It's like he's sixteen and she's in a silk robe.
And am not like why they've a read more or
less and she has no custody of him. But like,
I don't know if they can take him into custody
if he hasn't done a crime. I don't know. I

(01:00:41):
do not know. Ugh.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
So we're at the precinct and Benson is with me.
She's like, wait, an underage patient living with a shrink.
This isn't good. Like, what do you mean you left him?
It really is not like our people. I really am confused.
So Finn says, she's bang in him and we just
talked about this, okay. So Craigan says, that's a serious accusation.

(01:01:05):
And it's like she's in a silk robe. I don't
know how many more times I can say this. So
but Andrew isn't complaining, but he is a minor, and
Finn's like, she is kind of hot.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
It's like she hasn't whacked out on drugs. Finn wants
to know how the baby daddy, like who is the
baby daddy? Not how he is? Who is it?

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
And so she's been seeing Andrew since he was twelve.
That's the onset of puberty. So Craigan wants more evidence
and it needs to all be air tight, and Benson says, like, stop,
if Stanton was a man and Andrew was a sixteen
year old girl, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
And it is true, we would have arrested, like if

(01:01:49):
he was wearing a little silk outfit, like yeah, yeah,
Wang suggests bringing her in for something else because when
they were there with him, he was lucid and not medicated,
and like there were no hallucinations, there were no problems.
So like if he was truly like suffering from schizophrenia
six months without meds, he would have been a nut show,

(01:02:09):
you know, in the words of yeah, this precinct, I
would right, right, that's usually a problem. So Benson's like, wait,
you think she misdiagnosed him, like he was not even schizophrenic,
and then Finn goes maybe even on purpose. So but
it wasn't enough to commit him and have complete authority
over him, so they subpoena his medical records and we

(01:02:30):
have a mini like claw clip half up, half down
in cement room bars. I'm just obsessed with her in
her blonde hair, like I just like her so much.
So finn is finn is no doctor, He goes, but
he needs an explanation on all these meds, and Huang's
behind him to, I don't know, it's cute and I
just like them together. So she tries to get Huang

(01:02:51):
on her side, like, doc, you get it, and he goes, no,
when he left you and went to Bellevue, Bellevy only
gave him half the pills that you did. And she goes, well,
that's what the dual diagnosis, and Guang goes, no, he
does not have schizophrenia. And then you know, Kalana's a
Pean clan's a pan I wrote these because of white

(01:03:11):
lotus lore, but they're on the lapans and that means
you're not a good doctor, Like you can't mix those together.
Those drugs make someone dazed and compliant. And she's stuttering
a little.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Now she gets that Huang's not playing any games, and.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
You know, she has an answer. She's like, oh, you know,
it's not an exact science. I adjusted things based on
what the condition commanded. And Wong's like, no, no, no, no, no,
these two drugs could have killed him taken together, and
he shows her all the papers. She sits down and
is like, well, I may have made a mistake. So
he cut to Andrew and he's having a full monologue.

(01:03:49):
He's like, neither one of my parents ever wanted me.
And Benson is like, well, I know how much I
know that. Yeah, She's like I get that, I feel you. Also,
they now that, like they've found this kid. These two
are back on the case. I guess Benson's back on
the case. They're allowing her back in. Now, let's get
the history of him and her. So he said it

(01:04:11):
started like at first it was a waste of time,
and he'd sit there and wait till the clock ran out.
And then one day he started and he just poured
out how lonely he was and that nobody in the
world gave a crap about him. And he started crying
and he couldn't stop. And then doctor Stanton put her
arm around him, and it was the first time he
ever felt love, and she asked if Stanton did anything
more than that dumb kiss on foreheads, then cheeks, then lips,

(01:04:35):
and then they started having sex and he was thirteen
when it started, and he's like, I loved her and
she told me she loved me too, and Benson goes, no,
that's abuse, and he goes no, at first, it was
awesome until she got pregnant and he freaked out. So
he freaked out. He's like, you know cause she's like,
you can't abandon this child like your dad abandoned you.

(01:04:55):
So she's a sick bitch and Benson like really cares
for him. So she's like, well, let's even make sure
that you're even the dad, and he goes, well, no,
she said, I'm the only person that she was with
for a long time. But he couldn't handle the news
of like being a father at sixteen with this guy
I like with this woman, and I can't imagine everything
he's going through. And so because of all the stress,

(01:05:17):
he started flunking classes. He had to go to summer
school and that's where he met Mallory and they were
in love. And so he is now learning that Stanton
is who told her parents and that's why she lied
and said that he was schizophrenic, and so he's like, no,
I was crazy and Benson's like, no, you felt crazy
because of the meds she put you on, well she

(01:05:38):
you know, and she's shoveling. She uses the word shoveling
down your throat, which I don't know. I like that
as a as a term. She says sternly and clearly,
you are not the sick one here.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
She is.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
So now we hear her voice saying it's the most
healthy relationship she's ever been in. Huang is like, oh,
so you have bad relationships with men, and she admits
that she used to be drawn to psychologically abusive men
until Andrew a child, and she says she would never
do anything to hurt him, and Finn's like, oh, except
break up him and Mallory, and she goes, Andrew is

(01:06:10):
sick and I was protecting that girl and him, and
Finn goes, no, you were jealous of a fifteen year
old that he dumped you for. She screams, he didn't
dump me, Andhuang goes, well, yeah, not for long, because
then you drugged him and had him locked up, and
Finn goes, that's the only way he would have sex
with you, and she's offended. She goes, not true, and
she calls Andrew delusional, and Finn goes, wow, that's not

(01:06:33):
really like a nice way to talk about the father
of your child. And then Huang starts talking, and she
flips her head from Finn to Huang with eyes wide open,
tears streaming down, and he says to her, you used
his deepest issues against him. Finn says, and now his
mother has to help raise this child when you go away,

(01:06:54):
and she goes, I'm not going anywhere, and it's like,
who's delusional now, and Huang's like, oh, we got a
paternity test, and if it proves that Andrew's the father,
then you're going to jail for statutory rape. She exclaims
that it wasn't rape and that they love each other,
and Huang slowly says, you took advantage of a child. No,
she screams, while more tears emerged. You don't understand. Andrew

(01:07:17):
is a man. He is my soulmate. And Finn looks
at her in the best face he's ever made in
the history of this whole show. Make it a meme.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
He has so many good faces.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
But it's like Popeye, confused judgment, like you crazy bitch,
Like I love this space, and so now we go straight.
Since Supreme Court allocution and is judge to say Lewis
Lois Lois. She's like, so you understand that allocuting and
open court about the crimes you've committed. That means you

(01:07:47):
agree to plead guilty in exchange for a lesser sentence.
And she does understand that. And the grandma's now holding
the baby, and it's like, did we have to bring
the baby to court?

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Like? Yeah, you couldn't get a sit like the baby
had to be sitting in court.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Doubt they even allow that. Finn is sitting next to
the grandma. Doctor Stanton turns to Andrew and says, I
never meant to hurt you, and everything I did I
did out of love. And he's listening and sitting next
to Mallory, and I will say, this is not an allocution.
You're supposed to say exactly what you did and how
you did it, and this is like any manipulation tactic, right,
So he won't look at her, and then he finally

(01:08:21):
sighiyes her and she calls him a boy that she
wanted to protect and heal, but then she fell in
love with him. She says that she tried to deny
her feelings but they were too strong, and she just
you know, she knew that he felt it too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
He nods slowly and slightly.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
She says, the first time they were together was the
happiest moment of my life. She says, I know I'm
guilty of things that many people can't understand, but I
want you to know that I'm sorry if I ever
hurt you, and I hope you can forgive me. She
cries and nods, or does he I don't know. So
he's pained and confused and troubled, and again he looks down.
The people agreed to the plea bargain. So it's four

(01:08:57):
consecutive counts of rape in the second degree, jail of
five years for each count. So she is going to
prison for twenty years. And Lois hates her ass and
she says, you abuse your professional relationship with this boy
in the most contemptible way. If I could, I would
put you away for life. Gavel, Gavel. She's carried out
by the bailiffs while screaming I will wait for you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
Andrew.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
He is so annoyed, but also has so many emotions,
like he's such a good actor. He's crying, it's like
paining her, but like he's you know, he was abused,
he obviously probably has certain connections and feelings, but also
like dealing with this new abuse, realizing that you know,
she was the one that had him institutionalized and lied
about the rape.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
I mean, this is like a lot for this young
boy to handle.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
He accidentally murdered his friend, like this is so he
doesn't have schizophrenia right now, we have to raise this
baby with his mom and Mallory Like what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
I know? And it's like also like this doctor did
not need to have the kid's baby, you know what
I mean, Like it's like you could have away. It's like,
how do you use He was like, yeah, yeah, totally,
but whatever. But it's also like full evidence of your
crime that you're just keeping in your home, living and
breathing evidence of your crime. Yeah. And so I'm glad

(01:10:13):
they gave her twenty years.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Yeah, and yeah that's dick wolf baby.

Speaker 1 (01:10:26):
So getting into the true crime of it all, you know,
some people would say this was based on like the
Susan Poulk case, which we already covered in the episode
Dearly Beloved about you know, therapists that have relationships with
their patients, But we already covered that one so I
think the first part of this case and this episode
and the reason why it's called conned is based on
the Jack character, right, like he's this con man. And

(01:10:49):
then I guess you could extrapolate that to say that
the therapist, the psychiatrist is conning people, but like she's
really honestly just manipulating and abuse her power. But this
con man character I think was maybe based on this
this guy named Christian Karl Gerhardt Streiter, who is one

(01:11:11):
of the most famous con men of the modern age.
And I actually read a long Vanity Fair article about
this man back in two thousand and eight when this happened,
and this all happened like this, I mean, it all
happened over decades, but you know, it culminated in two
thousand and eight, and I read this article back then,
and I think it was before even a second piece
of the case came forward. And so I'll get into it,

(01:11:34):
but I think this connects to kind of Jack, the
like sort of wonderkin khn man who's like, you know,
starting scamming from a young age and just like scamming
to a level that people that is kind of unbelievable.
So Christian Karl Gerhardt Stwriter was born and raised in Germany,

(01:11:54):
and then in nineteen seventy eight, when he was about
seventeen or eighteen, he met an American couple that was
traveling there and they said, oh, come and see us
in the States if you're ever over in the States,
and then he used that as an opportunity to go
to the States, like he listed this couple on his
visa and he went and stayed with them in Meriden, Connecticut,
before ending up in Berlin, Connecticut, home of Louandela SEPs

(01:12:16):
with the Savio family, and the Savios said that he
told them he was an exchange student, but it came
very clear that there was like something off about this guy,
Like he would sleep on their couch, but he would
wake up in the morning like expecting breakfast to be
made for him, expecting his clothes to be washed and
pressed for him, like he was some kind of aristocrat.
And they were like, get the fuck out of here.
So they kicked him out, and his next stop is Wisconsin.

(01:12:39):
He gets to like Milwaukee, and he enrolls in a
college class at the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee, and then
he's like, you know what, I got to become a citizen, Like,
I'm not going to get any further if I'm not
a citizen. So he marries this American girl to get
a green car in nineteen eighty one, leaves her the
day after the wedding, okay, and he's like, thank you
so much for the card, bye, like Mary J. Taylor. Yeah,

(01:13:00):
And I guess this is like pre the movie Green
Card and all of the shit that has to go
down for you to get a green card. But this
guy got a green card pretty easily, I guess. And
for some reason, she did not file for divorce until
nineteen ninety two, even though he left her in nineteen
eighty one, so I don't know why eleven years went by.
But he goes out to California to get into the
entertainment industry, and out there he adopts the alias Christopher Chichester,

(01:13:24):
and he goes around telling people in town that he
was in the British aristocracy. He like, uh, he's auditing
classes at USC. He knows a lot about cinema. He's
like telling people like there's people that they interview in
this Vanity Fair article that are like he told me, like,
come to this party, you're gonna meet George Lucas and
Steven Spielberg and all these people, and like they were

(01:13:46):
all there and they all knew who he was. Like,
so he was able to like ingratiate himself into all
of with all of these people, like truly one of
these like very gifted con men. Right, he feel like
you have to have charisma to be a con man,
right or yeah, truly not seen at all. Yes, you
have to either be silent or beloved. Yes, you have

(01:14:06):
to be like sort of the one that everyone in
the room is watching, so that no one suspects anything,
or you're like literally camouflaged into the background. So he
flirted with rich old ladies. He snuck into members only clubs.
Eventually he started living in the guesthouse of a woman
named Ruth Dede sohas in San Marino, which is an
area I've been too many times. It's right next to Pasadena.

(01:14:27):
It's a very beautiful neighborhood. I guess at the time
they said that there were three times of San Marino.
There was like the ultra rich, the medium rich, and
then like the low and I guess Dedie lived in
kind of like the low shitty part of it. But
still a nice neighborhood to anyone. And she was also,
according to Vanity fair quote known to everyone as a
reclusive alcoholic. So he's living in her guest house. God

(01:14:49):
knows if he's siphoning money from her or what even
paying to live in the guest house, who knows. But
eventually her son Jonathan and his wife Linda moved back
in with d and Jonathan is immediately suspicious, like who
the fuck is this guy? And he's worried that that
this guy is like, you know, somehow taking advantage of
his mother. Then in nineteen eighty five, Linda and Jonathan

(01:15:12):
disappear and Gerhart Streider was a person of interest, but
he claimed, oh no, they're in Europe and they did
get two postcards like stamped from France from parents. Is
this show? I will never trust the postcard? I know this.
This is Call me on the phone, call me on FaceTime.
I need to see you, Like I'm not even like

(01:15:32):
with AI, I'm not even taking a phone call. I'm
not taking a message on my voicemail, you know. And yeah,
especially after that's what happened with what's his name, who's
the who's the psycho? Rudnick, Rudnick. That's what with Rudnick,
he sent the postcard. Okay, so in late nineteen eighty eight.
But same with Titus will Willifer. What's his name you well, yeah, yeah, yeah,

(01:15:57):
oh yes, he did the same thing exactly in the
in the Nanny w Yeah. Oh my got him at
my parents' house. So much bosh talk. Anyway, in late
nineteen eighty eight, a man named Christopher Crowe is pulled
over in Greenwich, Connecticut driving a truck that belongs to
Jonathan Sohus, but he fled the area before the cops
could talk to him. So Chichester, slash, Gerhard Strid, they're

(01:16:20):
all the same person, right, Christopher Crowe. He is living
in Greenwich, Connecticut at this time. He is fitting in perfectly.
He dresses the part he wears like silk ascots. He
speaks like an aristocrat, custom clothing, like he's got everything's
embossed with like his initials and shit. He told everyone
he was a film producer in la and sure enough
people that would look it up. There was a guy

(01:16:40):
named Christopher Crowe who worked on Hitchcock movies. So he
you know, he researches his backstories before he like takes
over people's identities and stuff. He gets hired somehow through
hobnobbing in Greenwich at a fancy financial firm to do tech.
But he would like go on the trading floor and
just name drop and tell stories all day long, and
until someone checked his social security number and apparently it's

(01:17:02):
the same social security number as David Berkowitz, who was
the son of Sam Killer. Oh so it's like he's
not David Berkowitz. But it's like, why are you using
that social Like I don't know. Crazy. So he loses
the job. Then he just gets another job on Wall
Street that he is insanely unqualified for. Like he's supposed
to like lead this huge bond market. He's like never

(01:17:23):
sold a bond in his life. Catch me if you
can truly truly like to that. From coast to.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
Coast, different people, different things, Like it's really wild.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
Yeah, and it's like, I mean it's Annadelvi. It's like,
you know, there's certain people that are to a level
with this. He doesn't. He gets this job on Wall Street.
He's unqualified. He has no real work experience at all.
He doesn't even have a college degree at this point,
and most of these jobs, like he talks his way
into he obviously just like hobnobbed into them. He eventually

(01:17:53):
gets fired from that job, but at this point he
knows that Connecticut authorities are kind of looking for him
because of the truck. So he quits and he says,
I've got to leave the country, like and the story
is always like my parents have fallen ill in Afghanistan
or something like. The stories are always wild for why
he has to go. A few years go by where
he's kind of unaccounted for and nobody really kind of

(01:18:13):
know what's up with him. He's just like lays low,
and then the big con arrives. Okay. He reservices in
New York City around ninety two ninety three as a
physicist slash art dealer slash mathematician named Clark Rockefeller. And
he doesn't necessarily tell people he's part of the Rockefeller family,
but he he name drops like people from the family,

(01:18:35):
so everyone's like, oh, yeah, he's in the family, so
very quickly people start to know who he is around
New York society. He has a Gordon Setter, which I
don't even know what kind of dog that is, but
I guess it's kind of a fancy dog and the
dog the dog's name is Yates, which I thought was
a nice little SVU tie in. And then he also
somehow has a multimillion dollar art collection. He's got a

(01:18:56):
mandre on, a Pollock, a Si Twombly, like, he's got
what's a mandre on my fave. Yeah, he's got nice
ass art. But this one woman that they interviewed for
the article said she went over to his house because
she was an art like an art dealer, and like,
these multimillion dollar paintings are just like on the floor
leaning against the wall, you know what I mean. Like
he hasn't even had them professionally hung. Like it's it's

(01:19:18):
like weird. And he used I guess he did this
in Greenwich also, but he does this in New York City.
He uses the church to gain access to society. So
he goes to Saint Thomas Church, which apparently is like
the main Episcopalian church. It's probably where bigs Mom goes
in that episode, but I'm not going to fact check it.
But you know the episode where Carrie goes to church,
so and through the church he meets Julia Boss and

(01:19:41):
she thinks he's so charming and amazing. Why don't you
meet my twin sister, Sandra Sandra Boss, who is a
Stanford grad who is currently getting her MBA at Harvard
at this time. So to meet her, he throws a
clue themed party. Okay, he throws a full clue themed
murdermis street party. He's Professor Plum, she's Miss Scarlett. They

(01:20:04):
are immediately attracted to one another, and people say she's
a little bit weird too, Like she's very smart. She
ends up getting a really good job at McKinsey, which
is like a big consulting firm, and like making a
ton of money. But she's not very good with people,
and he's like kind of eccentric and like and wild
and so like they sort of was like they sort
of work together. So they eventually get married. They live

(01:20:26):
in New York, where, like I said, she's making a
ton of money. He says that he's working with third
world countries helping to solve their economic problems and teaching
them how much money to print or something like that,
and since their third world countries, he can't really charge them.
He sort of makes people think that he's living off
of family money or whatever. But eventually he's living off
of Sandra's money, right, so that he's able to keep

(01:20:47):
up this ruse even to a higher degree. In two thousand,
Sandra leaves him because he's been emotionally and she says,
occasionally physically abusive, but he wins her back. He transforms
into the old Clark, and then in that time that
they're back together, he gets her pregnant. So soon after
they find out that she's pregnant, he demands, I want

(01:21:10):
to get out of New York City. Let's move to
New Hampshire. So they moved to Cornish, New Hampshire, which
I guess is also sort of I've never heard of it,
but I guess it's also sort of blue blood, like, like,
you know, nice part of New Hampshire. Not all of
New Hampshire's beautiful, but like, you know, fancy. And so
in two thousand and one their daughter is born. Her
name is Ray I think it's for r. Eig H

(01:21:31):
Ray Storo Mills, Rockefeller, and she's born in two thousand
and one at Dartmouth Hitchcock, which is where I got
my stitches, the only stitches I have on my body.
My only scar is from Dartmouth Hitchcock Hospital. It's right
near where my camp is. So they call the daughter Snooks.
So in two thousand and six, so he did this
crazy thing in New Hampshire also where he went into

(01:21:54):
a town hall meeting and they were about to demolish
a church and he just held up a check for
one hundred and ten thousand dollars and was like, I'll
buy the church, and everybody was like, mouths were like
on the ground because I guess you know, people were like,
what the fuck. So they have this historic house that
they've bought in New Hampshire. He's gutted it and left
all these renovations happening, and then he buys this church

(01:22:16):
that he wants to restore or something. But they moved
to Boston, leaving the church behind, leaving this house that
never got fully renovated behind. And it's so Snooks can
go to a private school in Boston. Up until then,
he'd been homeschooling her. So they moved to Beacon Hill,
which you and I have been to Beacon Hill to
where my friend Julia. We went to my friend Julia's

(01:22:38):
mom's house. But my friend Julia lives right near where
they bought this house. So I texted her and I
was like, did you know this whole Clark Rockefeller and
his wife Sandra Boss And she was like, yes, my
mom knows her liked. I was like, of course, of
course there's a connect. Anyway, I just thought it was crazy.
She was like, yeah, my mom was on a board
with her. The mom the wife was nice. They didn't

(01:23:00):
you know, I don't think she had a ton of
interaction with the con man. So, like the character in
this episode, this guy is extremely smart. Okay, he knows
a lot about history art, He can do accents, he
can memorize long pieces of literature, he could play the
digeridoo like he's kind of like a savant. He can
like kind of do anything. And I think that helps
you convince people that you have this background that you

(01:23:21):
don't have. And so because like the didurid is extremely
hard to play. You have to like no circular breathing
to like play it. It's like not just like I
can tickle the ivories a little bit and play a
couple of songs. But Sandra was kind of finally figuring
this out, Like as they get to Boston and whatever,
she's sort of figuring out like that he's not like
what he seems, and she hires a PI in two

(01:23:42):
thousand and six who confirm that he is not who
he says he is. He agrees to a divorce, surrendering
surrendering custody of Snooks for eight hundred thousand dollars, two cars,
her engagement ring and address he'd given her, plus she
agrees to no further investigation into his identity, so he
gives up all. He gives up like basically custody of
his daughter for eight hundred k some cars, on a ring,

(01:24:04):
and address, and also to not get busted in July
of two thousand and eight, so now they're divorced as
of two thousand and seven. In July two thousand and eight,
he's on a supervised visit with Snooks with a social
worker and suv pulls up alongside them on Marlborough Street.
He shoves the social worker out of the way, throws

(01:24:25):
his daughter in the car, gets in and tells the
driver to speed off. The social worker is hanging on
to the side of the car. Okay, this is like
everything about this story is like a movie, and I
don't really understand why one hasn't been made yet. Like
we're optioning magazine articles all the time. I don't know
why this one's like not happening, but everyone is looking
for them for five days. And this is where my
friend Julia, she goes. It was really scary when he

(01:24:48):
kidnapped his daughter because they locked down, like her whole neighborhood.
They locked down Beacon Hill, they locked down Back Bay
like looking for this girl. But he got out of
the city and everybody was looking for them for like
five days. She's missing with him until they finally get
a tip that they were spotted in Baltimore and that
he's just put down like four hundred k cash for

(01:25:09):
some apartment, some carriage house in Baltimore, and this time
he's going by chip Smith. So they lure him out
of his apartment because they didn't want to burst into
the apartment and like in danger of the child. They
lure him out by calling him and say your boat
at the marina is taking on water, and he goes,
I'll be right there. When he comes out, they grab him,
so they arrest him. Snooks goes back to her mom.

(01:25:31):
They moved to London. Clark tries to plead insanity in
his case, and he was found guilty of kidnapping and
assault and battery with a dangerous weapon because of how
he assaults the social worker essentially, and I guess she
was dragged for a little bit. He got four to
five years for the kidnapping and two to three years
for the assault to be served concurrently. Meanwhile, remember Linda

(01:25:53):
and John who went missing so back in May of
nineteen ninety four, bones that were believed to belong to
John were found buried in the backyard of their former home.
But since John had been adopted, I guess they couldn't
compare DNA to his family members and identify the bones.
And forensic evidence showed that the victim had been struck

(01:26:15):
in the head two times with a rounded blunt object
and then stabbed six times, and the body had been
cut into three parts. And a nighbour claims that Christopher
Chichester as who he was back in San Marino, had
borrowed his chainsaw or maybe he was crow at that time. Whatever.
A neighbor claims that this guy had borrowed his chainsaw

(01:26:35):
around that time, and the bones were not conclusively determined
to belong to Sohus until twenty ten. So in March
of twenty eleven, I think once they conclusively confirmed that
it's this guy, La County prosecutors charge Chichester Slash Crow
Slash Rockefeller aka Gerhartstreiter with Jonathan's murder. Linda's remains were

(01:26:56):
never found, and that's crazy, Like his lawyers tried to
argue that maybe she killed Jonathan and disappeared because apparently
they were like an odd couple. But it went on trial.
It went to trial in twenty thirteen, and this guy
was convicted of first degree murder and the evidence was
mostly circumstantial. But when they did find the remains, the

(01:27:18):
skull of this body was wrapped in two different plastic bags.
One is from the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, the other
is from USC two places where he had gone and
either taken or audited classes. So it was presented at
trial also that he had the couple's pickup truck, Like
that doesn't make any sense. So he got the max
prison sentence of twenty seven years to life. He somehow

(01:27:41):
appealed and got like one year knocked off of it.
But he's eligible for parole in December of twenty twenty nine,
which is yes, he can't be trusted. No, So I
don't know how he's eligible for parole after sixteen years
because it went to trial in twenty thirteen. But he'll
be sixty eight when he gets out, and he will
completely keep scamming. He's currently at San Quentin prison where

(01:28:04):
he paints and has an absolutely wild artist statement on
his page like on like like there's this page of
all the artists at the jail where they make up
their their own like art and like they're obviously writing
about themselves in their own style, and he talks about
himself like he's one of the greats and he's like
some people draw inspiration from others, not this guy. He
is a completely original thinker. It's so crazy because it's

(01:28:25):
like literally your whole life has been copying and mimicking
and like you know, but on this website he and
in prison as an artist, he goes by C. K.
Gerhardt Striter aka the artist formerly known as Clark Rockefeller,
like aka ta fka Clark Rockefeller the way that it's
like fka twigs, Like that's what he goes by, So

(01:28:47):
a wild wild Uh, people buying his art, I don't know.
You can look at it and tell me if you
think it's any good. I also want to know, like
where he got these works, because it was never proven
that the works he had were fake, like his artworks
that he had, and that was like a major way

(01:29:08):
that he like conned people, is that he had these
amazing artworks that people said were that experts said were real.
So I don't know. Maybe they were eventually proven fake
with like more technology, but like in the two thousands,
people were like, no, this is real, Like he's got
amandre on and all these and he was buying all
these like upcoming artists. He was buying expensive paintings. But

(01:29:29):
then eventually he was using his wife's money for that.
So but I don't know how he originally had the artwork.
And you know, some people were commenting on our episode
that we did about the art heist, you know, the
art heives one that like some that I guess people
do a lot of like bartering in the black market
for this kind of art, because I was like, what
are you going to do with this? But I guess
also they were saying people use it as a bargaining

(01:29:53):
chip if they get arrested. They're like, but I can
tell you where this like famous painting is as like
a way to get like a deal. Wow. Cool, So
I thought that was interesting since we're talking about art anyway.
This episode also obviously has a lot of Mary Kay
Latourno in it. I originally wasn't going to cover this

(01:30:17):
one because I thought I thought that the episode Impulsive
was more the one with Melissa Joan Hart, but that
one is actually more connected to a different crime because
like what happens in Impulsive is not what we think
even though we think it's like a member. It's like
in that one, the kid is like sex obsessed and
he like he like basically assaults his teacher. So it's
not like an affair. Sadly, I found a case in

(01:30:39):
Minnesota and another one, one case from twenty nineteen and
one case from twenty twenty four that is exactly the
case of a therapist like molesting raping their young male client.
But unfortunately another case of SBU predicting the future. So
I think definitely they're talking about Mary Kay Laturno here.
The way she reacts like we're in love, we're in life,

(01:31:00):
it's definitely Mary Kay. So this case, I feel like
we all know about it. But I'll just go through
it really quickly. This case was like the punchline of
my youth. Like when this happened, I was like in
high school. It was like every late night show, like
everybody talked about this all the time. And then you
know more most recently, the movie May December is like
loosely based on this case. But if you, for some

(01:31:23):
reason actually have no idea what that name is, I
will tell you. Mary Kay Latourneau was a teacher and
a mother of four who was unhappy in her marriage.
In nineteen ninety one when she met a second grader
named Villie Flau. He was in second grade when she
met him, and then after second grade she would like

(01:31:45):
encourage his art and encourage his creative like pursuits and stuff.
And then in nineteen ninety five ninety six school year,
she ended up being his sixth grade teacher. So he's twelve,
and at that time her life is not going great.
Her marriage is hanging on by a thread. She's just
had like a miscarriage that's really shaken her. So in
June of nineteen ninety six, she rapes Relly Falau when

(01:32:07):
he's twelve and she's is thirty four and even the
Wikipedia calls it statutory rape, which I don't understand because
if he's not old enough to consent, like, it doesn't
really matter if he says I wanted it, if he's twelve,
you know, like I statutory to me is like you're eighteen,
another person's fifteen, and it's like you're in a relationship,

(01:32:27):
but it's not allowed because it's statutory. Like I don't
think at twelve you're allowed to be like, no, no,
I wanted it, Like I don't know, this doesn't feel
like maybe it was the thing. May it was a deal,
I guess. But they do it in the episode too.
They were like, you're guilty of satutory rape. And it's like,
if she started having sex with him when he was thirteen,
if she started i'm sorry, sexually assaulting him when he
was thirteen, how is that statutory rape? Like to me,

(01:32:49):
just because he's like, yeah, it was kind of awesome,
Like I don't know, that doesn't that shouldn't change it.
To me, I'd be like, that's that's the first degree.
But she later told Oprah Winfrey that she considered Ville
to be quote the love of my life. In September
of nineteen ninety six, three months after the abuse began,
she found out that she was pregnant with this twelve

(01:33:10):
year old student's child. So much like the episode UH.
In nineteen ninety seven, she was arrested because a member
of her husband's family called in a tip and was like,
you got a this woman is doing something bad. She
was arrested and found guilty of two counts of second
degree rape of a child. She made a deal with

(01:33:30):
prosecutors that instead of taking the seven and a half
year sentence, she would do six months with three months suspended.
Butt would have to have no contact with Billy Fillau
for the rest of her life. And she agreed and
said this was a mistake and it will never happen again.
But after she completed her three month prison sentence, very
quickly after she's on parole, she gets busted in a

(01:33:51):
car with Billy Filau, like I remember this happening. I
was like, oh my god, this woman, like what the fuck?
And the judges livid, much like Lois. The judge is
livid and reinstates her original seven and a half year sentence. Okay.
During this sentence, she gives birth to his second child
that she has been impregnated with during her parole. So

(01:34:12):
now they have two daughters. And she's in prison from
ninety eight to two thousand and four, and she also
did six months in solitary during that time for continually
trying to contact Falau. So like even in prison, it's
like you're in prison and there's a no contact order
and you're still trying. Like so when she got out,
they got the no contact order lifted. They got married

(01:34:35):
in May of two thousand and five, when she's forty
three and he's twenty one. They got married at a
winery and two hundred people were there. I'm like, there's
two hundred people that were like, we're down with this.
Here we come. You know, I'm surprised. I thought they
would be like they got married at a courthouse, you know,
like two hundred people were like, we are coming to

(01:34:56):
the Laturnau Fullau wedding and we are going to throw down.
They were married for fourteen years. They rarely appeared in public,
but they did do a hot for Teacher night at
a club in Seattle where she hosted and he DJed.
He spent a few years in Seattle area djying under
the name DJ headline. But then they started having marital

(01:35:19):
problems in twenty seventeen. They separated in twenty nineteen, and
then she died of colon cancer in twenty twenty at
the age of fifty eight. She actually had like a
very aggressive stage four cancer that like I think she
was diagnosed and died within like six or seven months.
So a friend close to Falau told People magazine that
after she died, he lost a piece of himself. He

(01:35:42):
understands how fucked up everything was in how they got together.
He's not stupid, but he can't turn off his feelings completely,
and it's a big loss for him. He talked to
her right before she passed, and they said everything they
needed to say. End quote. So that's the story. I mean,
if you watch the movie made December, obviously it's loosely based,
but you know, it's kind of like, yeah, you can't

(01:36:06):
turn off the way you were feeling. But it's just
like you shouldn't have even been exposed to like that
relationship at that age, with that, with those circumstances, you know.
And so I don't know, he's got two kids with
Mary Kay. He just had another kid with someone else.
His daughters now I think are having kids. So he's
a grandfather, but you know he's like in his thirties now, damn,

(01:36:33):
he's still so young. I know. I know he's like
a thirty something grandfather, but that's because he was a
thirteen year old dad. Like it's so, I don't know,
it's not good, but yeah, did you see me December? No,
it's interesting, Like Julian Moore's really good. Uh and yeah,

(01:36:55):
it's interesting. The guy who plays Billy Flow's kind of
character is good to it'sird. He goes to my acting teacher.
Oh really, Yeah, he's hot. Hot, he's really hot. But
like he like he has a relationship with his kids
that are teenagers. That's wild because they're so close in age,

(01:37:16):
like they're not you know, damn yeah, Like I hang
out with comics every day who are the age difference
of me and of Mary Kay of him and his kids,
like thirteen years difference. You know, Like I hang out
with people all the time that are like in their
twenties early thirties. I'm like, wow, like I could you
could be my child if things went really badly. But yeah,

(01:37:39):
so it's funny that they did this because it feels
like they hint at Mary Kay in other episodes, But
this all went down in like the late nineties, you know,
like ninety seven ninety eight is when this was all
kind of going down. And they did this episode in
twenty ten, but I guess, and that's five years after

(01:37:59):
they got married, after she fit like finished her whole
prison sentence. So it's interesting that the show decided to
dip back into somebody being that in love with a
teenager when there's a huge power imbalance and illegality. But
teens are just so annoying. It's like, what what are
you in love with? Like I remember Amy Poehler and

(01:38:21):
Tina Feye did like a weekend update about like after
another female teacher got busted, like you know, essaying a
student and was like and they were like, yeah, it's
just like his breath always smells like Dorito's, Like you know,
it's like, what is it that you're loving? Like I don't.
I mean, obviously it's a control thing and it's mental
it's a mental illness thing or of some sort, because yeah,

(01:38:44):
it can't be I don't think it's just like I
think it's also like she was in this bad marriage.
She didn't like her husband, and then she's like, oh,
this is this like a nice person, and it's like
but it's it's a child like but you know, and
that's it seems like this woman in the episode said
she went for psychologically abusive people and then she's like, Oh,
I can go with somebody that I can literally medicate

(01:39:05):
into oblivion and they can just be a little blob
hanging out with me. But that's that. We have an
amazing guest, so don't go anywhere. Our guest today is
an actor who you may know from several classic movies

(01:39:27):
from the nineties, including Universal Soldiers, Singles While You Were
Sleeping Kazam. But you know her best as the abuse
of psychiatrist doctor Franz Stanton. Please enjoy our hilarious conversation
with Alie Walker. Alie, really, doctor, this is so cool

(01:39:49):
to me. You nice, doctor Stanton. You're out of jail
and waiting a long time, so true.

Speaker 4 (01:40:02):
I'm off with good behavior. I didn't have sex with
any of the young watchers.

Speaker 1 (01:40:07):
No, but I bet your home she gets out and
tries to find him.

Speaker 4 (01:40:11):
She will, she will, Yeah, I love her child.

Speaker 1 (01:40:14):
Well. We talked about how it was like based on
Mary Kay Latourneau and like she could have she could
have only done three months in jail, and she went
back to jail for six years because she couldn't seven years,
because she couldn't stop.

Speaker 4 (01:40:27):
Well love, true love. It's so weird. It just creeped
me out.

Speaker 1 (01:40:31):
That I even yeah, wait, tell us, tell us. When
you got the script, were you like, oh my god,
this is crazy, or were you like, oh, I'm going
to play this delusional criminal. How fun?

Speaker 4 (01:40:41):
Like I was like, just play crazy, just play crazy,
Just just play crazy. You'll do Finey.

Speaker 1 (01:40:48):
Wong's character was suspicious of you right away.

Speaker 4 (01:40:52):
Always that guy. I really think. I always want to
go you're playing the result. Okay, stop it right now, because.

Speaker 1 (01:40:59):
You always knows everyone's it, you know what he does.

Speaker 4 (01:41:03):
He's really good.

Speaker 1 (01:41:04):
I was like a mental His characters supposed to almost
be like a mentalist, like he like kind of just
like knows.

Speaker 4 (01:41:08):
He's like, okay, he's just hitting me all the time,
like what, But he's also so ethical. Oh well, above
reproach is what I like.

Speaker 1 (01:41:21):
And did you play her like is she also on
drugs or no? I'm thinking no, she's just popping him
a full of them.

Speaker 4 (01:41:30):
I think she just had to pump him full of
him to keep the relationship going, because, let's face it,
he tried to you know, was it Mallory or something.
I was like, yeah, what's name?

Speaker 1 (01:41:40):
But it's like, God, don't you want to kind of
know who the last guy Franz Stanton dated was that.
This is what she was like, this is the happiest
day of my life sex with a thirteen year old?
A thirteen year old?

Speaker 4 (01:41:54):
Where's the baby? I know's like? I was always like,
are we going to see the baby? That adds an.

Speaker 2 (01:42:00):
I've did seeing the baby and poor which is crazy
that the grandma would break like why bring the baby
to court?

Speaker 4 (01:42:06):
And why give it to that woman? I mean, okay,
I admittedly, but the other one. I was like, why
do you think he was?

Speaker 1 (01:42:13):
The way? I had such a watching It's been going
on for quite a few years. Yeah, is it may
or is anybody looking?

Speaker 4 (01:42:24):
Baby's not so true?

Speaker 1 (01:42:26):
Were you like an SBU watcher before you got apart
on the show?

Speaker 4 (01:42:30):
I knew Marishka for a long time for that, and
you know, I kind of run into her in and
out of Hollywood and stuff, and I love her. So
I was thought, you know. Now, I don't really watch
a lot of TV. It's the weirdest thing I do sometimes.
But I love that because I knew those guys. So
it was really fun and I thought it was a
great show. I loved Dick Wolf shows. He was always
just like, you know, a great just bump, touch hong,

(01:42:52):
touch hounge. Yeah, allow would very carefully get up, go
make a sandwich, come back and okay, I'm on this part.

Speaker 3 (01:42:57):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:42:59):
You know that's really good. I like, I love the show.
I mean, I think Risk is amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:43:03):
And what's the guy's name, her sidekick, residame super maloney stayble,
He's great. I love that you just called him her sidekick.
We're very into I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:43:15):
Mean, you know that's really good.

Speaker 4 (01:43:17):
Well, you know, we are women, so we have to
throw it.

Speaker 1 (01:43:19):
Well. He left the show after twelve seasons, and she
continues to carry it on her back at season twenty
seven about to begin, so thank you know, I think
we can say that she's the giving the more main
character energy.

Speaker 4 (01:43:31):
Well let's go there.

Speaker 2 (01:43:33):
This was a very iced tea heavy episode and he
made one of my favorite faces. I mean, everyone was
not into you like your character.

Speaker 4 (01:43:42):
You know, it's kind of rude, wasn't it. I was like,
why do I getting so much flak? You know, an
old pedophile, But it was just like so sad right
in core.

Speaker 1 (01:43:53):
You weren't that sorry. You were like, hey, little guy,
I'll wait for you.

Speaker 4 (01:43:56):
Yeah, well you're not going to apologize for true love
or yeah that's what's.

Speaker 1 (01:44:00):
In your mind. It's just really wild that she's a
person that studies the like the brain and like its emotions,
and like didn't realize the.

Speaker 4 (01:44:09):
Perception is everything, right if you perceive having look at Hollywood, Yeah,
look at the world. It's like we're doing a great thing.

Speaker 1 (01:44:17):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:44:18):
It's like anything can be made to look good, right,
So she definitely did a lot of self convincing.

Speaker 2 (01:44:24):
There, yes, And then so I don't know, I wonder
if you're bringing this up too. We loved that you
were in a silk robe and they still let you
stay like.

Speaker 1 (01:44:34):
They let him stay at your house. You were in
a silk robe. If you had just been in jeans
and a T shirt, I don't think anybody would have
even clomped it. But you answered the door in like
a silk rose.

Speaker 4 (01:44:45):
That you guys are in this silk robe. He's all
whacked on drugs, he's underage, and there's a baby and.

Speaker 1 (01:44:51):
Then there's just like a baby crying and before they
even figure it out a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:44:59):
I don't really, I mean I was good. Think about it.
Think about how clever she was to cover like that
silk row baby crying drugged up thirteen year old and she's.

Speaker 1 (01:45:09):
Like, I'm helping my patient and it's like.

Speaker 4 (01:45:11):
What, let me get my patient back to bed.

Speaker 1 (01:45:14):
Most people don't even know what neighborhood their therapist lives in,
let alone like spending a little stint there. I also
thought it was funny that like no one was onto you,
and then Finn, like iced Tea's character, was like, I
don't know, he's young, she's kind of hot. Like I
was like, oh, I Fin, you're kind of hot.

Speaker 4 (01:45:33):
I got that shout out and I was very happy
about that. The best I felt in the whole show.
I was like, thank you, Finn.

Speaker 1 (01:45:44):
We have to tell you that. We just yesterday interviewed
another actor from While you Were Sleeping, Michael Rispoli. So,
oh my god, like back to back While you.

Speaker 4 (01:45:55):
Were Sleeping Cat He's hilaro.

Speaker 1 (01:45:57):
I just watched for the first time literally a month ago,
and yeah, and I was like when I saw you,
I was like, oh my girl from Sons of Anarchy and.

Speaker 4 (01:46:06):
SVU Ashley Bartlett Bacon, Yeah, you like the bastard.

Speaker 1 (01:46:11):
Yeah, you have like such vibes of like the parent
trap wife in that you know, what's that woman's name,
Elaine somebody like, Yeah, you like that.

Speaker 4 (01:46:20):
It's so that's a great I love that movie. That
movie was so fun. I love that it was originally
called Koma Guy. No, it'd be I love that cast
great people to work with, is really funny.

Speaker 1 (01:46:34):
I don't know if it really would have done as
well as it did if it was called Cooma Guy. Now,
I don't say I think that's a good renaming.

Speaker 4 (01:46:40):
It was literally called Coma guy, and he'd be like, what, well,
kind of with SVU, we interviewed someone and it was
supposed to be called sex Police, Oh my god, which
wouldn't have worked on I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:46:51):
Think that would have gone.

Speaker 4 (01:46:52):
Twenty seven seasons not good, No, No, twenty seven seasons.
That's really impressive.

Speaker 1 (01:46:58):
They're about to enter into twenty seven in the Paul. Yeah, wow,
it's amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:47:03):
I love that. I think it's a great show. I
think it's a good show. I think I think I
tea all of them are really good, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:47:08):
So yeah, do you have any like memories from the set.
Did you end your teen boyfriend John Mugaro get along?
I mean, any any little tidbits that are I know,
it was a long time.

Speaker 4 (01:47:19):
I think he was with the teacher at the time,
so I ended.

Speaker 1 (01:47:22):
God, he was like actually getting high school lessons.

Speaker 4 (01:47:26):
I think he was actually in a high school. So
I was just like, no, no, I mean, it was
just you know, it's like when you go in sets
like that, they're like well oiled machines, you know. Mushka
came and said high, we said hi, iced tea was great.
Everybody was great. We just all like boom and we
just started working. It was really easy, very very easy,
very laid back. It was great. Actually, I really enjoyed it.

(01:47:46):
They're really good people. I mean, Dick Wolf has great shows.
And the reason I like it so much as they
everybody knows what they're is expected. You know where it's
going to land, you know what you're gonna do, and
it's not you know, like some sets are chaotic and
kind of you know, they can be kind of daunting
and that's that. It was just lovely.

Speaker 1 (01:48:05):
So it was good and you just did and FBI's
Most Wanted, which is another dick Wolf joint.

Speaker 4 (01:48:10):
Dylan, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've only done guests. I think
I'm like dick Wolf stuff. I've done like three or
four guests, and that they've all been on like Dick
Wolf stuff because just it's really you know, they're really
they're cool, they're really respectful of you, they're you know,
they're very It's just easy. Yeah, just create a really
good environment. Those guys are really cool. All the actors,

(01:48:31):
there's nobody that you know that you're like, oh, God,
be careful. You know. It's just really fun and easy.

Speaker 1 (01:48:37):
That's good that there's no be carefuls on that fast.

Speaker 4 (01:48:40):
Watch cales on some sets. I guess I've been lucky.
I've had a few be carefuls, but usually, oh, make
a joke and move on.

Speaker 1 (01:48:50):
Can you tell me what it was like working on
Sons of Anarchy. Our listeners know that I'm a huge
Sons of Anarchy head, and we've had other Sons of
Anarchy people on. There's a lot of Sons of Innergy
people on SVU, like a lot of crossover. So I'm
always pointing it out, and I your character is like
the antagonist of the You're actually a good guy, but

(01:49:13):
you're against them because people.

Speaker 4 (01:49:15):
Oh my god, that was the most hated character I ever.

Speaker 1 (01:49:17):
Yeah, used to like give you the sky.

Speaker 4 (01:49:21):
Like I'd go into malls with my little boys, you
know at the time my kids, and people were like,
you're a bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:49:28):
My god. No, but they were nice.

Speaker 4 (01:49:31):
They would laugh and be like you're the biggest bitch.
I'm like, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:49:37):
Like I'm literally like I'm just trying to take down
a criminal enterprise. Like the Sons of Anarchy are bad,
they are criminals.

Speaker 4 (01:49:43):
I'm like the good guy.

Speaker 1 (01:49:45):
I am.

Speaker 4 (01:49:47):
Like, let's be nice. She was great character to play.
That was a great character to play. I love and
that show is great.

Speaker 1 (01:49:54):
Yeah, I loved. I was like so obsessed with that show.
So you like started and I mean, we get the
sell from IMDb, so you can tell us of anything's incorrect,
but you started like on a soap for like one
hundred episodes or something like that.

Speaker 4 (01:50:07):
Correct. Oh, and then.

Speaker 1 (01:50:09):
I'm really impressed.

Speaker 2 (01:50:10):
Every time we talk to someone from soaps, it's like
I'm impressed with how much memorization and how fast you
have to learn stuff, and I bet that's like really
good training.

Speaker 4 (01:50:20):
That was like one of the best jobs. I mean,
that was the best way. I mean I had done
a little movie and kind of fell into the business
and then just started working and I got the soap
and it was it was daunting because it's like, here's
twenty pages, you know, so we're gonna be doing this
at lunch after lunch and you'd be like okay, you know,
so you just like run to your own and cry
and then you know, go through. But you just it's

(01:50:41):
great training. You hit your marks, you know your lights are,
you learn to work with the cameras. It was crazy,
but it was wonderful. I love the people. I a Martinez,
Marcy Walker, Robin Wright. I mean it was a great
group of people and it was just like you know,
going to school. I just ate it up. So it
was fun. Yeah, that was a great time.

Speaker 2 (01:51:00):
How did you fall into it? You meant you just
said that into acting?

Speaker 4 (01:51:05):
I got seen in a restaurant. Actually, dude, I was
a scientist.

Speaker 1 (01:51:09):
Stopped up. Oh, I say, I used.

Speaker 4 (01:51:12):
The term scientists loosely. I was a grunt, right, I
had my my BS and bio and chemistry or whatever
by biochemistry basically biology from UC Santa Cruz. I was
applying to med schools. Didn't get into LA so I
got a job in the immunology department at UCLA and
was out it with a friend of mine who was
an actor, and I was laughing and being goofy because

(01:51:35):
I'm almost like ma, but I'm you know, cause anyway,
and this guy came over to me and said, you know,
you're really funny. Why don't you come in audition for
this film? And I was like right, you know, and
but my friend was like, no, it's actually a real movie.
Go do it. So I did it, and I got it,
and I'm on the cutting room floor in some movie
that I, you know, never saw. And then but then
I got signed. I mean, it was just crazy. I

(01:51:58):
got signed by an agency, I got a couple of commercials.
I just started working and I started going to classes
and waiting table you know, the common drama of the actor.
Started going to like every class I could find and
waiting tables, and then read for the soap got it
and then just started really going, you know, and it
was it was, it was insiting. Man, it was great.

Speaker 1 (01:52:19):
Yeah, and then you basically just like have it stopped
working in like three days, like decades, so and I
retired like.

Speaker 4 (01:52:26):
Five I did Ghosted was like the last I did
FBI just for Funk because I know Dylan. I love
Dick Walf So I was like, yes, I love that show.
So I was like, okay, And you know, my friend
Julie McMahon was first read. Oh you know, I did
profile with him, and so I've always like watched it
because I watched when he was you know there. But
so I quit a few years back basically because I'm tired.

(01:52:47):
I don't know, but but I wrote a book.

Speaker 1 (01:52:51):
So that's what I was wanted to ask you about
your book. Yeah, let me say, okay, so you have
you wrote a book this year called The light Runner.

Speaker 4 (01:53:00):
Yes, it's fanned. It's taken me about ten years to
get it out because I wrote it as a pilot
and the first episode in twenty fifteen, and then I
gave it out. Nobody picked it up, and so I
made a film and then I you know, did that
I called far More, which is on Amazon Prime and
Apple and all that, and then I just I kept
writing so I was like, well, just write a frickin book.

(01:53:23):
I mean, let me teach me, you know. So I
started like just trying to write and doing it at
night and doing it in the pickup line and doing
it wherever I could. And I wrote a book. And
then in twenty twenty two I gave it to the
publisher at the small company and she loved it, and
she goes, I mean, we have to edit, but I
love it. And so I started editing. And then that

(01:53:43):
company it was supposed come out in twenty twenty three
with their company, and they went under after COVID. I
just thought, you know, I'm just going to put it out,
and so yeah, so I put it out. So it's
called The Light Runner. It's on Amazon and Barnes and Noble.
There's my my spiel, Okay, what can you give us?

Speaker 1 (01:53:59):
Like the quick like, what's the elevator pitch, what's the
LaGG Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:54:03):
It's a metaphysical thriller. It's a psychological thriller. It's really
at the heart of that a thriller.

Speaker 1 (01:54:07):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:54:08):
It's about this young psychiatrist who works in a psychiatric
hospital and she gets her first case and it's this
Army captain Captain Oliver Haskell, who's a war hero whose
wife's been murdered and he's so depressed and down. They're
worried about him. So it goes into this psychiatric hospital
and she starts to listen to a story and try
to figure things out, and as she does her own,

(01:54:29):
her own story starts to unravel, and she starts remembering
things from the past that had happened to her. She's
had a lot of trauma, blah blah. But then the
patients in the hospital start to explain to her how
reality really works and how to find the truth of things,
and it's just like this kind of slow burn I'm getting.
It's given great reviews. I'm really psyched, so it's well received.

(01:54:51):
So I'm just kind of like, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:54:53):
And does she have an affair with a thirteen year
old at any point the psychiatrist that would be a no,
would be you know, that's doctor good tie in.

Speaker 4 (01:55:03):
In the same word now as doctor Stanton. Then they
became friends. Isn't that crazy? But so no, So I
did that. That's my latest gig. And then I'll probably
I don't know, I just do you know things.

Speaker 1 (01:55:14):
Yeah, it feels like you're semi retired. I think if
the right thing came along, I would.

Speaker 4 (01:55:20):
But I haven't. You know, I haven't. You know, everything
is auditioning now by yourself somewhere. Yeah, you know, I'm
an old fossil of this. I loved meeting directors and
people and working with people, and it just became, you know,
the roles are pure and for the between when you
get older, it's really rough, you know, and unless you're
you know, Nicole Kidman, and it's like, you know, and

(01:55:41):
she's amazing. So it's like I just started going, you know,
just do other stuff. So I directed a film. I
wrote and directed a film, won a few awards at festivals,
and then was it it's called far More.

Speaker 1 (01:55:52):
Oh I'm seeing Yeah, it has Adrian Grenier in.

Speaker 4 (01:55:55):
It and like period de mateo. Yeah, and I was,
you know, that was a great experience. So that was
really fun, and I my writing got a lot of
attention for that script. It was really great. And then
I just you know, I really love to write. I've
always written, and that's what made me want to do
the book. So I was just like, Okay, that's great.
Yeh man.

Speaker 2 (01:56:14):
So you enjoy the writing process. You're into it, Yeah, it's.

Speaker 4 (01:56:19):
Fun for me. I mean it's like it's hard, you know,
some day, not every day. Some days you're like, I
don't know, I got nothing, but you know, other days
you're just like you know, And with this particular one,
I just kind of it's really weird. I was describing this.
I did a podcast esterday and I was like describing
somebody and it's like, well, how do you do it?
You lay out an outline. I was like, no, man,
there's no way. I'm not you know, like organized. But

(01:56:40):
what I do do is I do do is What
I do do is I sit on a couch for
hours and just daydream. And that's how I approached acting.
I just sit there and make up the character and
all the things that in my head. And it really
I learned this in a class with Harry Master George
you know who taught you know, reallyotta Walkgoggins meld me grust.

(01:57:04):
And I was a baby when I went to that class.
I would just be like, that's a really smart thing
to do. So I did it with writing. I just
sit for a few days and really kind of h
that be like, and then I'd start writing and it
was like stream of consciousness. It was really fun.

Speaker 1 (01:57:16):
Wow. Wait, I like that.

Speaker 4 (01:57:19):
Otherwise it gets too for me. I if I have
to like block it and stuff, it gets kind of scary,
like did you do your homework?

Speaker 1 (01:57:30):
Yeah? You know, yeah, and then you like at you
and your outlining, you start seeing like problems and you're like, well,
now I got to go back and fix that instead
of moving forward. And yeah, I have.

Speaker 4 (01:57:40):
A lot of problems. To believe me, I went back
up and down. But I was just like, I don't
worry about.

Speaker 2 (01:57:44):
We'll go back and fix the problem that I like
this brainstorming vibe.

Speaker 1 (01:57:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:57:51):
Yeah, it's more fun that way. I just really like
just like, oh, that'd be like when we think about
that for a while, just lost in your head. You
know that's cool.

Speaker 1 (01:58:01):
I feel like that's you're like diversifying, like you're doing
writing and directing and different things.

Speaker 2 (01:58:08):
Do you ever like sliding doors think about your science life?

Speaker 4 (01:58:14):
Yes? That is so weird. Yes, I do. There's a
lot of that in the book because in the book
I talk about what reality is and time I talk
about it in a very different way. I say it's
not one dimensional. It just doesn't go from here to there,
goes back and it can wrap around itself and all
these things that they're saying, there's scientific bases in these things,

(01:58:36):
and it's really weird because some of them, which I
found out later are true, and I was like, really
I need that, you know. So it's really fun, you know.
So yeah, my science head kind of came out in
the writing a lot. My dad was a physicist, and
you know, I used to have like really interesting conversations
with him about you know, reality and dimensions and like

(01:58:57):
just like you know, how things work, and so, you know,
science is pretty great. It's really it's very creative, you know,
and if you could imagine something, usually if you can
prove it, you know, it's fun.

Speaker 1 (01:59:10):
Okay, tell us about Kazam.

Speaker 4 (01:59:13):
You know, that's so funny. I just I just did
an interview with this guy who's writing an auto auto
but biography on Shack, and I was like, yeah, just
asking me questions and I was like, I don't really
remember it. You know. For me, it was like I
just went and did my job. I had a great
time with Shack. He was a hoot, and Francis was great.

(01:59:35):
But it was a weird set and I was like,
what is going on here? Man? Because I just like
to get in, do my job, have a few laughs,
and leave. And it was there was a lot like
one guy who was not an actor, who was hired
to play my character's boyfriend, hated what's his name? The director,
Paul Michael Laser, who had you know, had a horrible

(01:59:57):
just lost his wife and child.

Speaker 1 (01:59:59):
I don't know if you know, yes, Elizabeth Glazer, the
Pediatric AIDS Foundation.

Speaker 4 (02:00:04):
Yeah, yeah, just the saddest story. And I was very
cognizant of that. Francis was there and he was such
a sweet kid. But then there was this guy and
he hated Paul or something. I wasn't there when it happened,
and I came to set one day and it was
like the costume person's like, come here, Camara, and I'm
like what and she's like the guy walked to Lax

(02:00:27):
and left. So he walked from the set to Lax
like nine miles away. Then I was like, who am
I doing my off camera? You know, it's just like
so that was kind of nutty, right, But I never
I never realized how much attention that film got, like
negative attention, because I was like, oh, it's a kid's movie.

(02:00:49):
It's cute. That's how I felt about it. I was
just like, oh, it's a cute kids movie, okay, you know,
and uh it was sweet, I thought. And then she's
hating it, like and wow, And then combined that with
the guy on the set, I was just like, I
don't know what to think of that. I had a
great time with Shack, That's all I can say. Shack
and I had a ball. I was like happy.

Speaker 1 (02:01:10):
Shack's one of my favorites.

Speaker 4 (02:01:14):
Us too. By the way, he's a he's a genius
and he was just a kid, you know. We went
to the premiere and this was the sweetest thing. He
leaned over to me. We were at the premiere in
New York and he goes, hey, Alie, and I was
like what we were supposed to be talking and he goes,
I just had my first baby. And I was like, oh, oh,
he's really sweet. It's so sweet. So I don't know,

(02:01:34):
I had a great time. I've had a really good
time on most of the stuff I've done. You know,
I just try to Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:01:38):
You see, like you really go with the flow. Don't
have a lot of wow.

Speaker 4 (02:01:42):
I can be difficult, you know, at the writing, I
could be difficult. Well it's usually about the writing, Like
really I gotta what what you know? So i'd be
But but not when you're you know, I mean when
I was on Profiler, I had a hard time because
a lot of people were running coming and going. But
most of the I mean know, we're really lucky to
be doing what we're doing, and you know, it's it's

(02:02:04):
a hell out of waiting tables.

Speaker 1 (02:02:05):
I can't believe that you like literally could have just
been a scientist if this person didn't like overhear you
being a goof at dinner? Do you remember who this?
Do you remember who this person was? And did you
ever hear?

Speaker 3 (02:02:15):
It?

Speaker 4 (02:02:15):
Was Michael Greco and he did a little film with
Chris Makepeace and I actually am seeing running through one
of the hallways on it called a Loha Summer. It
was a really sweet little film. Don't think he ever
made anything else, but he was lovely and never.

Speaker 1 (02:02:32):
Literally launched your career over me.

Speaker 4 (02:02:35):
I got the acting bookcase I'd done it in you
know college is but I was just always like, I
can a living at this, you know, pay off my student.

Speaker 1 (02:02:44):
So yeah, this is cool. That's that's like that's literally
like I got discovered at the supermarket type of story
that like you barely ever hear.

Speaker 4 (02:02:53):
Yeah, I thought the guy was crazy when he approached
me at the table. I was like, oh sure, I'm
with someone you know, and legit really changed my life,
just completely changed my life. Yeah, it's crazy, really crazy.

Speaker 1 (02:03:06):
This has been very fun. Yeah, thank you so much
for talking to us. Anything else that you remember from
your little fran Stanton days that you want to throw
to our audience. I mean your eyes, I was gonna say,
you're crying was very good. Like you you got your
eyes got so red and you got the tears just
really tumbling out talking.

Speaker 4 (02:03:24):
About love that kid. You love that teen, I love
that teen love. Oh god, well, thank you for having me.
You guys are a hoot.

Speaker 1 (02:03:38):
She's the best. Oh my god, I'm last girl. I
might read the book.

Speaker 2 (02:03:44):
It reminded me, like I read the Barnes and Nobles
synopsis and it's like it does remind me of my
James Patterson days, like I want to thriller.

Speaker 1 (02:03:53):
Yeah, I was like the light Runners about comics that
go too long on their that's wow. I just like
what a story to just get like discovered while you're
working in a lab and then you're just like, I'm
an actor now gonna work for thirty years series regulars writing,
And yeah, super Big watched Sons of Anarchy. She's really

(02:04:16):
good in it. She's so like she's like this FBI
agent that's like, I'm gonna fucking get you guys. I mean,
spoiler alert, it's really hard to get those guys.

Speaker 2 (02:04:24):
Uh, but aunt to have back to back while you
were sleeping people, That's like, yeah, why.

Speaker 1 (02:04:31):
Back to back? When I just watched it, and like,
oh my god, I just I love talking to her
and wow, I love how well how much she loved
joking about her relationship with that thirteen year old I
mean he was sixteen by the time he was on
the episode. But also I am I love that she
loves Shack. Yeah, that she's in Kazam.

Speaker 2 (02:04:54):
I wonder if she truly knows the depths of like
the Mendela effect, because am sin Ad Shack like universe
there's like a lot of talks about because they am.

Speaker 1 (02:05:05):
Yes, the city, there's like the Sinbad Mandela effecting. Yes, totally.
Oh but she is in singles, which I we didn't
get to ask her about. But Singles was huge when
I was like in middle school because everybody was like
wearing the flannels and like walk into grunge and like
that was like the grunge movie that came out. Singles.

Speaker 2 (02:05:24):
Oh interesting, Wow, it's really star studded. I've never heard
of this movie.

Speaker 1 (02:05:29):
Oh yeah, singles, But now that I see Matt Dylon
with his long hair. Yeah, a Cameron Crow, a Cameron
Crow classic. I don't know if I've ever seen a
Cameron Crow movie. Almost famous, No, no, hmm, I can't
name another one, so I don't know what the other
ones are.

Speaker 2 (02:05:47):
Oh, I've seen Jerry Maguire. I've seen Jerry Maguire. Yeah,
and I've seen we Bought a Zoo.

Speaker 1 (02:05:52):
We bought a Zoo? Wow? Waits a fast Time?

Speaker 2 (02:05:55):
Oh Elizabeth time and wait it's fast Times him he
wrote it?

Speaker 1 (02:06:00):
Cool? Damn?

Speaker 2 (02:06:03):
Oh yeah, I mean Amy Hypocerlian. They directed it. That's
who I associate with the movie. I didn't realize Cameron
Crow wrote it. Wow, that was great? Yeah that in
days and confused. I always get confused which ones which?
But I love how Yeah we bought a sup Okay cool,

(02:06:23):
I'm enjoying. Sorry, I'm like looking at this, but people
really love this man, and I think he loves Tom Curuz.

Speaker 1 (02:06:31):
Okay, so what's our post mortem from this episode? I
guess like pedophilia is never okay, I don't care. Yeah, like, yeah,
an adult is not allowed to do anything with a teen.
It's just not that's not sex. But also it's scary

(02:06:53):
when it's like get help, go go, like get help
for your mental illnesses and things like that, and then
someone can just like so take advantage of you and
like fuck with your meds and turn you into a
different person and tell you you have schizophrenia. I mean,
like that's just like very harrowing.

Speaker 2 (02:07:12):
I know it's a TV show, but I'm glad it
is a time where someone got a sentence and I
was like, yeah, she should be there for twenty years.

Speaker 1 (02:07:18):
Yeah. And then the real crime the con I don't know,
it's like he is up there with like the catch
me if you can guy, Like I mean, I wouldn't
even say Annadelvi is kind of like even in the
same realm because this guy was doing it for decades
and Annadelvy got caught pretty quick. Although it's a more
modern age, it's easier I think to get caught, But
like this guy just like going around and it's just like,

(02:07:44):
I don't know. I just don't know how you pretend
to be so rich when you have no money. I
don't know how you It's like the creativity, you gotta
almost respect it. Uh. But I think he's a sociopath
and I don't know what he thought he was going
to do. I think like the only person that he
actually kind of cared about was his daughter, and thats
why he tried to steal her back. But it's like,
what did you think was gonna happen? You were going
to live in Baltimore with your kidnapped daughter, with people

(02:08:08):
thinking that you're a Rockefeller on the loose, Like your
wife who has millions of dollars, is not going to
track her daughter down. I don't know. Delusion, delusions of grandeur.

Speaker 2 (02:08:19):
But also right, but in the real life, it's like,
why if the mom is such a bad mom, why
did she get another She's gonna hold the baby like
the pill popping grandma oh in.

Speaker 1 (02:08:30):
The in the episode. Yeah yeah, back to the episode. Yeah,
one track of mind for me. No, that's okay, I yeah,
I mean that was like because she's like, I never
laid a hand. That's the only thing we know about
her is that she never hit her kids. But I
don't think she did anything else that was that great.
You know, Like her son's on the streets and she
goes we skype every week. I'm like, and you can't
convince him to come home, Like, I don't know. At

(02:08:53):
the same time, she was working against a psychiatrist who
was drugging her child for three years. Yeah, broke up
with like a good girlfriend. Yeah yeah, I mean I
think him and Mallory are going to stay together. That's
what I think happens in the PostScript. But yeah, but
I don't want her to like be a teen stepmom.

(02:09:14):
I know, a teen stun andrewis to raise this baby.
He doesn't want to, Like, I don't fuck this bitch.

Speaker 4 (02:09:20):
I know.

Speaker 1 (02:09:21):
I'm like part of me thinks that, like, even if
she goes to jail, she should have to pay a
certain amount of like child support for the child, so
that they at least can use her psychiatrist's money to
raise the kid. I mean, I love how we go
into just a full PostScript of fake people, but I
would like to see a happy life for this poor
little child. I mean, I gotta be honest. The kids

(02:09:43):
of Mary Kay Latourneau and Billy Filau seem like they
were raised by loving parents, even though their dad was
thirteen and fourteen when they were born.

Speaker 2 (02:09:53):
They're gonna write some books, I bet yeah, they'll do
some sit downs with well whatever takes over for sixty
minutes when it's when everyone's arrested.

Speaker 1 (02:10:03):
Yeah, when it becomes a state television run called like
just like Trump tonight. All right, let's move on to
our what would Sister Peg Do? For this episode? What
Would Sister Peg Do is our weekly segment where we
direct you towards a book, article, organization, something to give

(02:10:23):
you more info about what we talked about today. And
you know, we were talking about how people can't like
normalize having a relationship with someone that's underage and acting
like that is consensual, Like that's assault. And I feel
like the not to get too political, but the the
right has been co opting the term grooming for a

(02:10:45):
long time, aiming at at like drag queens and trans
people and people that it has nothing to do with.
But grooming is a very real thing, and so we'd
like to point you to an article on the Rape,
Abuse and Incest National Network which it goes by RAIN.
On their website, they have an article called Grooming Know
the Warning Signs and this is a helpful resource to
protect your children from potential groomers by identifying the recognizable

(02:11:08):
patterns that grooming often follows. It also touches upon the
potential threat of online grooming and so for more information
head over to RAIN dot org and that will be
linked in our show notes and as always, it will
be in a story that we post the day this
episode comes out, which will be saved in our WWSPD
Highlight where you can find all of our past what
would Sister peg Do's and yeah can see if you're

(02:11:35):
anyone in your kid's life is sting to do something
not good.

Speaker 2 (02:11:39):
And next week, I don't want to say it, we'll
be doing an episode in Loco Parentis from season nineteen,
episode fifteen.

Speaker 1 (02:11:48):
Fuck you, Warren Light, watch it, Watch it, guys, come on,
but also Warren Light, come on the pod. We're reading
for you. Thank you guys so much for listening. We'll
see you next week.

Speaker 2 (02:12:09):
That's messed up as an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (02:12:12):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
episodes you'd like us to cover. Shoot us an email
it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (02:12:24):
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.

Speaker 1 (02:12:31):
As always, please see our show notes for sources and
more information.

Speaker 2 (02:12:35):
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain.

Speaker 1 (02:12:41):
And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song,
and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer,
and everybody at Exactly Right Media dub the dun

Speaker 2 (02:13:00):
M

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