Consent w/ Tammy Blanchard

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
These are our stories done done?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yay, that's messed up. In sview podcast, we are here.

Speaker 4 (00:32):
My name is Lisa, my name is Kara. You know
what we do on this pod. It's SVU EPPS. It's
real crimes they're based on.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
It's interviews with actors from the show What's going on?
You are just back from an exciting little trip.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
I was in New Orleans doing shows. Thanks for everyone
that came out, and then I went on a swamp tour.
But the funnest thing of all is I was there
during a jail break. I mean, only four have been apprehended.
The convicts are free. Kara, do you not even know
anything about that?

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Now? I don't even know what you're talking about. I
thought were gonna talk about the gator tour.

Speaker 4 (01:05):
Oh oh, I have to confirm if it's ten or eleven.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
But basically Shawshank style hole through the toilet ten convicts ran.
The cameras are just them running into the streets and
during my shows, two were caught, so people's apple watches
were going off and it was like they were being
live apprehended. But to go to Bourbon Street is so silly,
like everyone's like the facial recognition is so strong, especially

(01:33):
after the car like that terrorist attack.

Speaker 4 (01:35):
Like right, so, but six are still on the LAMB.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
I got a text yesterday updating that a fourth had
been caught, but they wrote it was too easy, but
they spelled two with only one zero, so that was
kind of fun. And I wonder if afterwards they're seeing
the footage being like fuck. They also someone wrote I'm innocent,
and then someone crossed it out and wrote we innocent.
And there's drawings. But yeah, they like climbed out of

(02:02):
the toilet. They all work together and then scattered and
out of the toilet. Yeah, there's photos. There's photos. But
four of them are murderers. I don't know everyone else's charges,
if they were like violent or non violin or what
their sentences are, but like four were in for murder.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
But honestly, everyone was cheering.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
I don't know if it's because mostly it's podcast listeners,
but it's like people love of jail break.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yeah, I mean, what if there's a way to get
out of jail.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
You're going if you see a bunch of people going
out a hole in the jail, if you're following. The
New York Times calls their escape brazen, which is a
Nancy Grace word. I loved you. I'm watching a little
video right now. Oh my god, there's like so many
of them.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, didn't I describe it well that they scattered? Yeah,
they fucking ran.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
Yeah, Oh my god. And they're running across a fucking highway.
They don't give up. Casey's moving the mic, Casey's moving
the mic.

Speaker 5 (02:54):
Well, Lisa, Lisa, I was gonna ask, have you heard
about the conspiracy that this is related to the haunted
Annabelle Doll?

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Oh my god, cause the plantation burned too. Wait, I
know Annabelle's on tour. I didn't realize. Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (03:08):
They have been touring the haunted Annabelle Doll from the
Conjuring Verse, The actual, real life haunted Doll has been
touring through New Orleans and Louisiana. And during that time,
the jail break happened and a plantation burned down, and
people are saying it was Annabelle the evil Dolls.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
You gotta get raw Hernandez on the case. It's absolutely Annabelle.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
It is Annabel Roses who fucking told me about this
annabel tour yes, and was so Antiette. You have to
text Raws like I, oh my god, annabel is like
a down bitch. If it's just like you know, escape,
I mean plantation burning is like pro good.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
Yeah, that's what everybody's saying.

Speaker 5 (03:56):
People are saying now like, oh, bring this million to Jericho.
Told me all about this. They're like, bring Annabelle to
Georgia to burn down our plantation. So they're like asking
for her to like tour around to do good. Ana,
this is amazing, so we do have a listener. I
met her after the show.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
Hello.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
She had fun colored hair, like a teal, a teal
blue green, fun fun gal. But her friend looked very preppy,
very preppy, very old world money.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
I was like, where'd you go to school? And she
said North Carolina.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
I go, okay, okay, Like I don't know, it's like
a little bit.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
They didn't look congruent. I don't know if that's the
right word. That's a triangle. But she was like, started
to talk about your friend. If you're listening, but she
she was like the architecture though it's an architectural marvel,
like it's so sad, and it was just like, yeah,
I don't think it matters.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
I think this.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
I think the symbolic nature of it being built by
enslaved abuse humans, that this plantation has denied a reality
of like I don't there's other architecture.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
I don't care. I don't go to the coliseum. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
It was so I bet there's other stuff and she goes,
but the history, I go, you should be more concerned
that they're not teaching the history in schools, like it
doesn't matter the history of this plantation. And so it
was just kind of crazy Louisiana as well, because my
driver to the swamp she was definitely she shit talked
her way out of a giant tip.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
I like to tip, but.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
She she was not pro the convicts escaping, which is fine,
which is fine.

Speaker 4 (05:38):
You know, I understand that she was in her seventies.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
But then she started talking about homeless people and I go, hey, baby, girl,
you're losing you're losing your tip by the moment. Yeah, yeah,
but I saw this more like a woman who can't retire,
So it was like really tough. But she she like
looked at a homeless person and was like, I wouldn't
be able to do that.

Speaker 4 (05:58):
I'm like, yeah, I don't. I don't think he's like
I can't wait to do that. Like I don't know.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
I just it's like a weird thing to say to me, Like,
I bet they like the heat and the hot concrete.

Speaker 4 (06:08):
I go, what are you Like? This is weird?

Speaker 2 (06:10):
She goes, they'll come here for the great weather. I go,
I'm sure people are dying every day on the streets here.
This is the worst weather I've ever been to. Oh
my god, weird. I don't know why I harped on that.
I had a really good time, but there is something
where like I just don't think i'd hang out with
people up here that would be like pro the plantation keeping.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, I just that was just shocked.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
I don't know, it's like, yeah, it's shocking to hear
anybody really take a stand for architecture. Like it's just
like it's really just I guess the last time I
heard that was when Notre Dome Notre Dame was on fire.
People were like, oh, it's our architecture. Not so much
a plantation, yea.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Because I don't know who built that. I don't know
about it. I know about the punchback, you know what
I mean, Like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
I've been seeing mocked up Juneteenth T shirts with that
plantation burning in the background. I hope they I hope
people have some fun with Canba. Well, it's totally Annabelle.
It's totally Annabelle.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
And she is yeah, yeah, brazen escape. That is a
fun word.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
But like Nancy Grace would always be like, did you
not brazen? Lace take this toddler from his mother, Like
she would always talk about brazen. So I love brazen,
But damn girl, I didn't even know about that. I
just thought we were gonna hear about the swamp tour.
How was the swamp tour?

Speaker 4 (07:31):
It was really cool it you were on one of
those votes with the big fans in the back. No,
we did go fast, but it's more long. It was
like fifteen of us.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
I would say, like, and it's bench seats, so you
sit long bench vibes. And we did go really fast
at times, but then we'd slow down, and you know,
he was he did say like, this isn't a zoo,
this is nature, so you'll see what you see. Yeah,
they the animals know that the boats bring marshmallows. And

(08:03):
I asked about the marshmallows. I go, why marshmallows? And
he said, well, they used to feed them hot dogs,
but they'd get too full and then they would leave.
And they need the crocs that gators there. It's very specific,
so they need the gators to come out. So we're excited,
you know, we're there for the gators. Yeah, so a
biologist came. So this biologist and everything's a biologist. So

(08:26):
it's called Doctor Wagner's Honey Island Swamp Tour, and doctor
Wagner is like a biologist. Like this is made by
like a science guy who loves nature, you know. And
I feel bad that I started talking about the driver immediately.
I really enjoyed this tour and she had cool stories.
I mean, and the ride is fifty five minutes outside
of New Orleans, so she talks about like all the

(08:47):
neighborhoods we passed and all the Katrina stuff. Like it's
really like a historical and ecological tour as well. And
like this guy on the boat was talking about pirates
and like fun stuff. But Anyways, the biologists said, marsh
shmellows give them a boost of energy, but it's it's
like they like it for that, but they're not going
to get full, so they'll keep on floating by.

Speaker 4 (09:07):
So it was exciting. It's cool to see that.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
I love a croc oh wait, an alligator excuse me
on a little sugar a little sugar high like my
children after ice cream.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, then like little raccoons come out too, and there
were really cool birds and I saw, oh my god,
I saw two turtles jump off a log, and I'm like,
this is what life's about. And then there's like little
I would I guess it's rude to call them shacks,
but it's like these little homes on this river, yeah,

(09:37):
you get one for thirty thirty thousand dollars. But the
gators are cool, the raccoons are cute. Like you checked
out the real estate, how.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Did you know they were thirty k well, I told us, yeah, okay.

Speaker 4 (09:48):
It's just homes are thirty thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
He was telling us about the updates and permits because
when people started asking questions, yeah, like everyone had questions,
and he's like, the water's not dirty, it's sedimentary rock.
It's like Philip, you know. It was cool, but the
gators are definitely small. They were not threatening to look at,
Like I wasn't as scared as I thought I was
gonna be. They're really like cute and little, but they

(10:15):
definitely have the devil in their eyes, you know what
I mean when they swim by like they don't really
there's they're soulless creatures.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
For sure, even if they're hot for marshmallows and that's it.
Rosie got to hold a little baby alligator in Florida
named Rose, and she was really pumped about that that
they had almost the same name. But her little mouth
was like rubber banded shut, so she didn't, you know,
bite any kids.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
And I saw a snake and I saw one snake,
and then we saw an eagle's nest built on a
power line. And since they're like endangered, if the power
people have to do anything, they have to have biologists
and he come and wash them so they don't disturb
the eagle's nest.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Oh yeah, like it was cool. I really precious about eagles.
We're really we're very precious about eagles in this country.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Really beautiful, but but I just liked being a part
of an ecosystem. I guess, like it wasn't zoo like,
and I like kind of just the moments of floating
into the trees and grass and moss and like, I
don't know, it felt really cool to see the raccoons,
see the croc, see the gator, see the gator.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
You know, like they're just.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Living then, just be in nature, because like a zoo
is great, but yeah, we're they're also selling hot cotton candy.
You know, it's like not exactly the same experience. And
there's also they're always protesting at the zoo and it
makes me feel better.

Speaker 4 (11:42):
Than going in there. At the La Zoo.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
They are but apparently they're getting rid of the elephants
at the zoo, and I feel like that might have
been what they're getting rid of the elephants at the
La Zoo.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
I feel like elephants I can agree with, like elephants,
orcas off.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
There's certain animals. I'm like, yeah, like stop it. I
forgot what they're with them. They maybe moving them to
San Diego or something. But they're moving these these elephants
out of the LA Zoo, and I feel like that
was what people were protesting about. So maybe the protesters won.
Oh wait, I wanted to give a movie review.

Speaker 4 (12:13):
All right, I'm ready you see? Are you ready for
my movie review?

Speaker 1 (12:16):
What?

Speaker 4 (12:16):
No ideers? Jared said. He thinks it's too much for me.
He said, he think, did you see it?

Speaker 2 (12:20):
No, I'm gonna find I'm finally in town for a
couple of weeks and I'm gonna do like a solo Sinners.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, man, I want to go see Friendship. I really
want to go see Tim Robinson's movie with Paul Rudd
called Friendship. I think that looks really fucked up and cool,
but I don't want to go to the violence. Although
Sinners is getting to that point where, like like the substance,
where everyone's talking about it so much that I'm like,
should I just watch it? But he said he thought
I would not like the violence. But we watched The Apprentice,

(12:49):
the movie that Sebastian Stan plays Donald Trump and Jeremy
Strong plays Roy Kohane, and it was really good. Like,
I know, nobody wants any extra Donald Trump in their
life right now, but Sebastian Stan is excellent playing Trump,
like he is totally He's very good at playing him
like in the seventies when he was a different person

(13:12):
or whatever, all the way up to like well maybe
not maybe actually way earlier than the seventies, maybe like
the sixties or something like that, when he start well
his like just not a different person. You don't empathize
with him or anything or sympathize with him, but you
he's just not doing this Saturday Night Live like like
like imitation that we're all used to about Donald Trump,

(13:34):
Like it's just you see how it grows over time,
Like he does such a good job, like with how
at the beginning he's just a fucking greedy businessman, but
you see how like he gets blown up or even
when he's going bankrupt and even when he had like
has all these people, like he's still Roy Cone taught
him all these principles, which were like always attack, never admit,

(13:56):
never admit that you're wrong, never admit defeat. Like he
has these three principles that he tells him, and the
first one is attack, attack, attack, and like before so
you meet him before he like meets Roy and uh,
I just didn't know the story of Roy Kane either,
Like I didn't know. I mean, obviously it's a biopic,
so some of it might be bent or whatever. I

(14:18):
was like, I probably don't want to watch anyth about him,
but I was really impressed Sebastian Stan, like kind of
he as good as Jeff Gluley or whatever in Itania,
but he hasn't really like done anything that I've been like.

Speaker 4 (14:27):
Oh wow, that guy and this.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
I was like, he's really good in this, like he's
really excellent and fuck man, you just kind of watch
the Creation of the Monster.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
It's fucked up, but I liked it.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yes, Sebastian Stan is just someone I refuse to learn,
Like anytime he's in any of my movie games, I go,
I guess I'm not winning that today because I can't.
I can't learn another new person, like I'm sorry, I
will not learn Jeffrey Wright's catalog, Like I just can't.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah, he has like Sebastian Stan like also to me,
even I just googled him, there's three fo it was
of him where I think he looks completely different in
every photo, Like he just has kind of a malleable face,
like a Gary Oldman situation where I feel like you
can just like change the chameleon type face, you know. Wait,
update from Roz. I go Annabelle bringing chaos to Louisiana.

(15:15):
She goes, I want her publicist. Annabel's press door is sleighing,
We're freeing the prisoners, We're burning the plantation.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
Out of course it's Annabelle. I just feel stupid.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
I didn't think about that sooner I doll tour, I
mean because Roz was like I would never because I
would never be in the presence of that doll of.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Annabel So wait, are people buying tickets to just go
see the doll?

Speaker 4 (15:43):
Yeah? Yeah, people. I bet people are traveling. I mean
people are sick. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Wow, wow, No, I'm sure Sebastian stan is very talented
and he's obviously a good looking man. It's just like
my brain is tapped out, like I know, it's just
not it's not even it's it's all too much. And
there's a new draggers. Do you haven't watched Love Hotel yet?
It all you've you've resigned?

Speaker 1 (16:06):
I have it on my DVR, I dvr at it
and I've got it, but I haven't watched it. I
have been so crazy lately. I have not watched a
television show. Last night, I watched two of the new SVUS,
like of the current season, because I'm trying to catch up.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
And that was as far as I.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
Have been able to get with any personal television in
the past two weeks.

Speaker 4 (16:26):
Like I don't know what's going on. I just don't
have time.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
I watched all of Overcompensating, and I would like to say, like,
Holmes is incredible.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
I have already seen the memes and I am so
excited to watch over Compensating.

Speaker 4 (16:39):
It's like she just slays them away that this is.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
This is Benito Skinner's comedy that is on Amazon. Guys,
you should all watch it. It's called Overcompensating. It's got
Mary Beth Burn Holmes, a bunch of people that are
super funny. But Holmes is getting like the meme treat
yeah she is, yeah, like they have like a lot
of quotable lines. I guess, yeah, but uh.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Actually it was just like really really fun yeah, and
it was an easy watch. So I had a good
time with that. And then like drag Race this time
flying or standing still.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
Like what I have watched my drag Race.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
I don't know anything, but outside of TV, I'm like,
am I living?

Speaker 4 (17:25):
Like where am I what am I doing? What have
I seen? What have I ate?

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Like?

Speaker 4 (17:31):
What is going on in life? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (17:35):
I literally took my kids to go see The Fox
on the Hound at Quentin Tarantino's theater the New Beverly
On over the weekend and was like, I'm not even
seeing new movies. I'm seeing I'm watching shit from nineteen
seventy seven or yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
But when was the last time I watched Fox in
the Hound, Like, I don't think I've seen that, Like
I've seen it once in my life, and that's that.

Speaker 4 (17:52):
You know, it's on Disney Plus.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
And I was like controversial opinion, like I know Quentin
Tarantino's theater, it's my husband's theater. Like everybody's obsessed because
it's everything's on film. I do believe that there is
a value to watching things on film live action. When
you're watching old animation, you're like, this looks better on
my TV. They've cleaned it up, like on a film,
there's just a bunch it just looks like the screen

(18:15):
is dirty. And then it's like a two o'clock Fox
on the Hound and this one kid like is making
like a repetitive like banging sound like probably banging on
his seat and some there were a lot of adults
at this movie with no children with them, and that's
totally fine if you want to go see an old
Disney classic, but it is a two o'clock Fox in
the Hound, I think you have to be a little
bit chill. And somebody just went, oh, come on, like

(18:36):
somebody's just screamed into the darkness that this kid was
making this noise. And I was like one of those
moments where I was like, it's not my kid. Thank god,
it didn't even register for me that theme in mine.

Speaker 4 (18:46):
I would have stopped they did.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, I mean Kay's seat repetitively is not like discomfort.
Like I feel like if a kid is showing discomfort
or excitement, that's different than this bitch is banging Stop
your kid, Yeah, yeah, stop that little kid.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
You can't be no, Absolutely absolutely I was. I wasn't
at the Fox and the Houn. I would have hit him.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
I probably would have.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
I probably would have gone up to the mom and gone,
can you ask him to stop? Rather than screaming angrily
into the darkness. But I definitely would have said something
because that's like I didn't hear it like enough, probably
because I was getting my kids popcorn and doing whatever.
But uh, I did eventually hear it, and then I
heard the scream.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Oh, I will say my flight back from New Orleans
was delayed for two hours, and we were like sitting
on the plane and I the pilot. She was like
the most beautiful pilot I've ever seen in my life.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
She was so nice.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
And then she actually walked up the flight to make
sure everyone heard the announcement and handed out the trading cards.
And it's one hundred year anniversary of a trading card
that or seventy or something like that. But I don't
even I've never had that card. So I also got it.
What are the trading cards? I didn't a doubt that
trading cards do.

Speaker 4 (19:58):
Do you know? I'm collecting them? And I have talked
about it a lot.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
You have, Yes, I talk about it often, to the
point where I was talking about it with tone Bell
and I showed him a photo and he goes, so,
is this where your life's at?

Speaker 4 (20:08):
And I was like, it is. Wait, what's on a
trading card? What's on one? Show you? I'll show you. Okay,
Now you feel.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Like I'm like jog my memory because now I feel
like I'm actually going crazy. Okay, okay, so each plane,
I guess I can go grab him. I also have
an Olympics one too, because they were the official partner,
so that felt important. But each plane has one, so
it's like an A one, you know, three whatever, seven
eighty seven, So each plane has one, and the pilots.

Speaker 4 (20:36):
Have them, and you got to go ask or what Yeah,
well that's what I mean.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
But she just walked up and I was like, oh
my god, and it's one I don't have, and she
was so incredible, like she was truly I have to
write an email actually because she was like my favorite.

Speaker 4 (20:51):
Pilot I've ever had. I love.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Usually I enter the planes and I asked the flight attendant,
oh can I ask the pilot for a card? And
then they get excited, and then the pilots get really
excited and then I ask for one, and then they
go I think I have one, and then they dig in.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
Their backpacks and like, give me a card.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
And then two times ago a guy goes, well, they're
five dollars now because people are selling them, and I
thought he was being k like kidding, but then I
don't know, but he gave it to me but he
said that the pilots have to pay for them now,
and I'm like, there's no fucking way.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
This bitch was really hand in am I.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
I have to be honest, like, I don't think I've
ever heard about this. Yeah, she's talking about.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
This on the podcast. See I have right because you
know about this or has this really never happened?

Speaker 4 (21:35):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (21:35):
I honestly, I don't have a memory of the cards.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
I feel like I always talk about the two, like
the same things over and over.

Speaker 4 (21:43):
So I'm like shocked. But because I also had a
moment where I walked.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
And asked a flight attime, I was like, hey, can
I ask the pilot? And she goes, I'm the pilot
and I go absolutely, And so it sucks when you
you know your own biases coming.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
When did this start for you? Because I've been on
flights with you, I don't remember seeing you.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
I could tell you the exact time it started. It
was December seventh and I was flying to Cincinnati and
we were delayed, and so when I got to go
in the cockpit and take photos and like learn a
lot and press buttons and stuff, he gave me a
card and so that started.

Speaker 4 (22:18):
I got it this past December.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Okay, yeah, so yeah, it's a new thing, and I
probably have like twelve I would say right now, and
then summer repeats, but there are holographic and like glittery,
and they have facts about the plane.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
If someone has a repeat, you just go, oh, no thanks,
or did you take it?

Speaker 4 (22:37):
Anyway.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
That's why I stopped asking so much. And then I
was so excited. She was just passing them out and
Hannah it was actually like obviously we were delay two hours,
so I was annoyed, and then the jet bridge took
so long. I did have to like go through people
to pee on the plane again, like it was kind
of like but it's still an enjoyable flight. So I'm
supposed to have a middle seat, and I get to
my row and it's a couple that wanted to sit together,

(22:59):
so I got to.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
They were playing the game. They were trying the trick.
I told you about the trick.

Speaker 4 (23:05):
Yeah, no, it didn't work.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
The stuffed well also in comfort, it's never gonna work
because people are being upgraded. So that was their plan,
Like silly, of course I'm going to be in there.
But yeah, I was a couple just zonked out because
I was zonked out on my phone the whole flight.
It was actually really stupid, but I scrolled for hours.
I could not put it down. And then the couple
next thing was Fox News the whole time. I'm like,

(23:27):
I guess it's like the spectrum of brain rot. Yeah yeah,
but anyways, Yeah, I'm getting the trading cards. The pilots
get really excited that you want one and that you're involved,
because I heard they all have not this girl, she
was magic, but they all have God complexes, you know,
and so and they have to. I mean, your uncle,
not to talk shit about him, but I'm sure he's
got an ego, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
I mean, he's a pretty great guy, but I would
like maybe he's friends with your girl, because like he's
really like just such.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
A home I was eating sandwiches.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
He was like, I never really acts like I mean,
but I know what you're saying. I think pilots, pilots, surgeons,
men in those kind of careers think that they are God.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Yeah, you have to put one flight attendant in a
shuttle to the hotel. Once told me, she goes they
all have got complex but she goes. But they need
that because they're flying us, like we need them to
think they're superhuman, you know, like that they're a badass
because all of our lives are in their hands. So
I guess, like if you're going to be a dick,
it's fine, Like I don't care, Like attendant, I don't care.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
And I guess if you're gonna like take my heart
out and put in a new one, sure you can
be God.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
Yeah, exactly, like they're going to be a surgeon.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
I don't need you to be a well human being,
like get up in me and cut things out, not
on what I hope I never have to do surgery.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yes, you're watching new New Drag Race right or you haven't.
I haven't yet. How many episodes are we in Jesus,
I don't know. Time is weird.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Maybe three, Like we're about to made a new crop,
you know, because they're doing the brackets. But Dasia went
to Mexico. I'm pretty sure is Mexico. But she went
and had weight loss surgery and ended up being a
giant disaster.

Speaker 4 (25:03):
She fully regrets it.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
She was like ill for weeks at a time, like
her body did not react to it, and it was
just like a nightmare. Oh no, it's like a yeah,
she's like I wish I had never done this. I
mean she looks great, She's always looked great. But yeah,
I guess I almost died. Yeah, almost died. Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
I don't know everyone's going, but she probably thought, like
everyone's going to Mexico to do this. Everyone's going to
Turkey to get their teeth done, and people are going.

Speaker 4 (25:29):
To places to get their hair plug.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Surgery surgery even in the US, like surgery is I
don't know, elective surgery is scary because having surgery sucks.
It's like, I don't know, recovery sucks, Like I just like, yeah,
I mean that's the price you pay for all the
fun stuff in life. Like I would love to get
tons of surgery, I guess, but like, I'm not doing
a recovery. And I talked to someone who got the

(25:51):
hair plug thing, and it's like you have to take
baths and massa.

Speaker 4 (25:55):
There's so many steps.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
I'm like, I don't want to be like having to
lotion my scars in a chice bandage sitting.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
I can't.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
I can't, I can't, Like I'd rather just deal with
whatever my I think about myself than go under them.

Speaker 4 (26:10):
It's just scary for me.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Maybe it's also because I had to have a lot
of surgeries as a kid or something, but like, yeah,
I don't know, it's just and my parent I've seen
my parents have all these you know, medical disasters. I
guess I just associate it with disaster. So it's like
it's not a fun thing.

Speaker 4 (26:25):
I don't think anyone. Yeah, it's awful, like, but some.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
People are down, like some people are getting plastics or yes,
all the time. Like most celebrities we know are under
the knife constantly. We don't see the scars and they're
bouncing back. So but I wonder they but they can
hire people to like roll them over and clean their wounds.

Speaker 4 (26:44):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
I just I can't. Yeah, because even remy mad. She
was on Chloe Kardashian's podcast and I did listen to.
I don't know if you know her. She was like
a plus size influencer. People got mad because she went
a horseback riding and they told her she was too
fat to be on the horse, and like everyone fun
of her. Okay, so that was like a but that
was years ago. She's like I'm known for whatever. She
would put on outfits and like it was real life,

(27:08):
like try ons for like weddings or whatnot, and she'd
be like, I look on her, I look bad and
then she's whatever. Her weight would fluctuate, but then in
the past year she like lost tons of weight but
refused to talk about it. So she was this plus
size influencer and then dropped probably like I don't know
how much weight she's lost, but she looks different. But
anyone that talked to her was like inquiring about it.

(27:31):
She would block, like she was like, I don't ow
you shit, leave me alone and get I get it,
because if you were someone that fluctuates and you don't
want people knowing your business, I get where she's coming from.
But it's like, this is also your career. Yeah, But
so she went on Chloe Kardashian to reveal the truth.
So I did listen to that episode, but she like,
so she got a gastric sleeve or bipa whatever a

(27:52):
gas strik surgery is. But she has to take twenty
vitamins every single day for the rest of her life.
And she has seen one hundred and twenty grams of
protein every single day.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
Oh my god, I drink chicken.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
So it is like you say, you know, it's like
nothing is an easy fix, right, it seems like but
the idea is I can't take vita of it. I
don't want I can't do that now, Like the steak's
being that high. That's why people, I think, gain weight.

Speaker 5 (28:17):
Again.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
You're supposed to be really careful about drinking and addictions transferring,
and I guess a lot of people get really injured
after these surgeries because they become alcoholics.

Speaker 4 (28:27):
Oh god, yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
It's like I don't know, it's just really it's just
really wild. I'm not like educated on any of it.
If I'm wrong about stuff, but just hearing her on
this podcast, feel like I have to take twenty vitamins
a day, I'm like, yeah, I'm ow like I would
never do any surgery, Like I don't want to. I
just can't imagine having to surgery. Yeah, because it's.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Still that's really I didn't want to have a sea
section because and I mean people have sea sections every day,
but I was like, it is a major surgery. I
think people don't treat it like that, probably because it
only affects women.

Speaker 4 (28:57):
But like it is a major cutting you open because
I knew someone that had to have that.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
And like what we kept talking about was like what
if you're a single mom and no one's helping you.
You can't even carry your fucking baby and you're in
stomach sert I can't like fuck everything that we do not,
I don't know, see sections are insane. Yeah, and then
you and then you hear the horror stories of what
Instagram usually is feeding down my fucking neck of my throat.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
I mean, but like, uh go make me a roast,
you know, like.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Why aren't you making stuff like bounce This idea of
bounced back or like you're my wife, you have to
fuck me now is like so crazy. When you think
about babies coming out of a human after being grown,
it's just like nuts. We haven't even talked about fucking Atlanta.
We haven't even talked about the woman being fucking kept
alive as an incubator. Oh my, global styles so disgusting.

(29:52):
It's so disgusting, like this baby and the like the
baby's not the fetus is not viable.

Speaker 4 (29:58):
I don't think it's this is a nightmare. This is
just experimenting on black man.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
It's like it's truly never ending the horrors of the country.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
But yeah, yeah whatever, but you know as as yeah,
get get Annabel to DC, throw over the.

Speaker 4 (30:18):
Game about yeah, hang out right on that like.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
A grenade, just fucking T shirt cannon into the rose garden.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Let's do it. Oh my god, Annabel is going to
be the solution to all of our problems. Let's get going.
We've got a good one for you guys.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
All right, we are doing Consent, Season two, episode ten.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
We're going way back.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
What a thrill, Consent, And I feel like someone in
Congress is trying to take that away. Bring it to
the sansual, bring it to the States. Consent has to
be brought to the States. It's like insane.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
Yeah, yeah, a sixteen old in Arkansas might believe differently
than a sixteen year old in Oregon, and we need
to respect that.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Okay, there's dorks running through a college campus. It's a
guy in a gal They're talking about study groups, and
they also like hate the homeless. They're like, ugh, that
bum again, probably fertilizing the bushes.

Speaker 4 (31:16):
And it's like he doesn't have a home. Where do
you wanted to piss? Like in your mouth? Fuck?

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Off, so they do say hi, and they do know
his name, so maybe it's not that ad a serial
of a relationship. They're like Harry, but then and they
run towards him. He runs off, but there's groaning. It's
a woman in the bushes. She's not doing well, contorted
body but alive, and we're at the hospital quick. She's
a student at Hanford University, which kind of died out quick.

Speaker 4 (31:42):
Like I don't remember Hanford really I thought that too.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
I was like, oh, interesting, because like we move on
pretty quick to Hudson, and then it's usually Hudson or
you know, University of New York. I feel like maybe
they've done or like they've done ones that are Hunter
all the timeunter but maybe not three two Hunter. Yeah,
but but and then Hanford. I was like, damn, okay, Yeah,

(32:06):
I just never really heard of it.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
But it feels like a Columbia like looking at it,
like that's what I envisioned, anything that's a full campus
like and want to use very into the city.

Speaker 4 (32:18):
I feel like Columbia has a campus.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
It's pretty much I would say, the only place that
you're going to go see what you immediately telegraph as college,
like greens and like quads is Columbia, I.

Speaker 4 (32:31):
Feel in New York.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah, I don't really know if there's because you know,
there's Pratt. There's all these kinds of schools, but they
are very urban.

Speaker 4 (32:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
So at seven am early, there's alcohol in her breath,
semi conscious, no panties, and we're getting an update from
a uniformed cop.

Speaker 4 (32:49):
And this feels very early seasons.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
I feel like medical staff usually fills in our crew
at the hospital.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
But so, did you love what an actor this cop was?
Like her diction was perfect, Like the girl is getting
seen right now by the doctor like she was just
had like the most like perfect diction. I go, they
got this girl right out of acting.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
School, Like she's pumped. I did not catch that. But
we meet the doc.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
He has a beard, he's vague on the details, but
all classic signs of essay and she but she's refusing
a rape kit and he's hoping that the detectives can help.
So we do a black light situation and we're truly rubbing,
like swabbing remnants have come off her stomach. Right, Yeah,
they're showing it. It's like pretty wild for prime time.
And then they try to give her a pill that'll

(33:35):
prevent pregnancy. So I guess he came everywhere. I don't know,
like pretty crazy. She's really upset. There's seemen, no condom,
there is rape. She's crying. She's upset about all the news.
She keeps crying, saying no, I can't even like with
the mention of taking the pills to prevent STDs, like
it's all just too much for her and she cannot
handle it. Benson calls her sweetheart and says she doesn't

(33:57):
have to decide right now, but the doc is like,
but day are two max or like none of these
pills will work. So then she says, you don't understand
I was a virgin, and then she's gripping Benson's hand
and we roll into the credits. So now we're talking
to Dana Kimball, her roommate, who arrives at the hospital
to bring her fresh clothes, and then she's chatting with
Stabler and it's Michelle fucking Monahan. Are you kidding? I

(34:19):
don't think it think for me that Michelle Monahan was
ever even in SVU. I don't have a memory of her.
I don't have a memory. I know this episode. I
was excited. It's cool to be able to see someone
over decades. She just looks so young. It's really like
a fresh face. Yeah, young girl.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
She looks so pretty and yeah, like such a little
college student.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
And so basically, she was out with some sorority sisters.
This is what we find out about from the roommate.
She was out with Tess and Jodi at a frat
house party. They left while she was still partying at
one thirty, so everyone left. She's alone there at one
thirty in the morning, and she was with Joe Templeton.
And I always think of Templeton, the rat from s
Charlotte's Web every that's the Templeton of my heart.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
There's another Templeton for me. No, and then Hank Ludlow
and the guys are the guys she stayed out with.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Stablor asks her if they're her friends, and she's like, well,
I wouldn't call it friends. Joe had a thing for her,
but she shut him down, and he won't stop going
after her, but she's not interested because he's a player.
She got worried when she didn't come home last night
because she knows the line, and you know, she knew
something was wrong. So Benson comes to meet Stabler with
some bad news. So basically, there's tears, there's semen, but

(35:33):
she's still really vague on the details. Not tears, tears, Okay,
hold on. So Benson comes to me. I was like,
why would that be evidence?

Speaker 1 (35:43):
And then I was like, I guess that episode with
the tissues, but with the tissues, but this is tears,
which is all right, we could leave it in, and
we'll leave it in. Yeah, it's tears, not tears and semen.
So her blood alcohol is still point oh four. But
let's not go, you know, so we gotta have we
gotta go talk to these and see how she ended
up in the bushes. And now we meet Gordie, who

(36:03):
we used to not care about but now we've really
mentioned him a few times, and he's an early CSU
tech and he is fighting with campus police. So munch
in Finner approaching them and they're like talking shit and
they're being the cutest and they're like, oh, campus Fuzz
wants to clear the crime scene and you know, telling
him to hurry up, and the pedestrians are arriving. Ten

(36:24):
thousand students will be in the quad by nine am.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
There's no fucking way at nine am there's gonna be
a parade of ten thousand students.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Well that bumped me too because I was like, I
think of ten thousand students at like big state schools,
like I don't. I mean, yeah, even if that many
kids go there, they're not a bigger than Radio City.
So like, imagine a full Radio City music hall that
would be a parade on campus. Like this guy is
crazy ten thousand students, Okay, Now, like Columbia has an

(36:58):
undergrad of ninety seven hundred and then there's obviously more
grad students they don't even usually like live on campus.
But you're saying basically every single undergrad is going to
be up and on the quad at nine am whatever.
That is, no dude.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
And so he's like, you guys are looking for God,
and you guys are just looking for god knows what.
And they're like, it's a crime scene, Barney, they're looking
for evidence and that's iced tea. And the man goes,
my name's Monroe, Detective, and it's like, yeah, they know
they're calling you a purple dinosaur, you fucking idiot. He says,
crime scene or not, this is private property. And he's

(37:31):
talking about the price of the shrubs, and it's like,
why do you care about the price of shrubs? In
what world? Who cares how much the shrubs are? This
is crazy. A woman has been found into the bushes, like,
I don't understand this man at all, and Munch goes, well,
I can arrest you for obstructing justice if you'd like so, and.

Speaker 4 (37:49):
Then and then they're like, I bet.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
The university is going to pay for your bail, right
because you care so much about the bush price, And
he backs down and says make it quick. So what
does Gordy have? Gordy finds a used condom, a handbag
with victim's hairbrush and ID and a scarf, and Finn
loves the scarf. He goes, wow, styling. So we go
talk to the joggers next. So basically she did. They

(38:15):
said that like she kept repeating a name Josh or John.
So they also let the detectives know about Harry, and
so then they go to find Harry.

Speaker 4 (38:23):
He's you know, he lives in the streets.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
He's eating out of the trash and Munch screams, you
want some syrup for those flapjacks? Slappy, and I kind
of like that, and he goes running, but it's like
I would run to if someone called me slappy, and also.

Speaker 4 (38:39):
Like why are we beating? Like the guy's eating.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Under the trash, you know, like yeah, slappy whatever. So
the chase time they get him, he has her wallet.
They arrest him for a possession of stolen property. So
we're in woodroom blinds and they're not turning on the lights.
It's so dark.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
The sun's so dark like light, there's a light is
peeking through the blinds.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
It is so dark in this room.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Sailor's being a little aggressive, I feel, and not as
soft as I would like to this clearly traumatized woman
who's like finally ready to like open up. But then
I watched the scene two more times and he actually
was fine. He just set down a paper cup and says,
so take us through it, Kelly.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
I don't know how.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
I feel like I just don't like his energy, but
I don't know if I'm looking too deep into it,
and he is chill, like I'm not sure, but it
made me mad at first.

Speaker 4 (39:25):
So then finally she's ready to talk. She says.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Jody testing her left the house at nine pint thirty
to go to the College Keg. It's a bar near campus,
and that's where they met Joe and Hank, and they
invited them to come to a booth at the bar.
They hung there for an hour or two, went back
to the Beta House to play video games in Joe's room.
Stable asks for details on Joe and she says, not much,
just a typical frat rat. But they flirted, but it

(39:49):
wasn't serious. He asked, She's a very Luayanne in terms
of flirting. She's out there, she's flirting. He asks about
Hank and she says, you've gotta be kidding me. Benson asked,
did they make sexual advances? She says, not more than usual,
but we were just having fun. They ask how much
she drank. I think she's lying. She said, one to
two glasses of Margarita's and a few SIPs of beer

(40:12):
at the house. And maybe she's responsible, but I feel
she's like doing what we do at doctor's offices.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
I'm like, how often do you drink hmm, couple times
a week, one to three drinks.

Speaker 4 (40:22):
Yeah, this doesn't seem right.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Last thing she remembers is sitting all on the floor talking, laughing,
and then it gets fuzzy. She remembers feeling cold, someone
pulling on her hair, and then nothing. She cries and says,
I didn't think I was drinking that much, but I
guess I did. It's my fault. Like classic, She's like,
oh God, what did I do? She cries. She puts
her head in her hands, and then the paper cup
she has in front of her is the classic eighties white,

(40:47):
teal and purple design, which I think it's like pretty
bright for a rape chat, you know what I mean, Like,
I don't know if they had to go full full
brightness on.

Speaker 4 (40:55):
The cup there.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
And also the detectives are silent and they're just making
icon contact with each other and like kind of being
judgy and like she is crying and they are saying no.
She goes, what have I done? Crying? And they don't
say anything to her. So I was right. They are
cold and rude, do they are? But I think that
they're setting this up on purpose. They're setting this up
because of a larger conversation about women and sexuality and

(41:23):
things that are going on in the culture at this moment,
If that makes sense, and I can elaborate more. Munch
and Finn are with you know, the outside man, Harry,
and he has some charges in his background.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
Obviously he probably loves a tough life.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
So he said he found things in the bushes and
he was going to take them to the Lost and Found.
But you know, Munch is like, okay, but you were
at the dumpster. That's not the Lost and Found, and
he goes, well, I wanted to eat first, and Finn
is like, come again, and it's like the classic John
mulaney joke of like you haven't heard a man eating
out of the trash, Like what are you confused about him?

Speaker 4 (41:57):
You grew up in New York City.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
But breakfast stuff gets there at eleven, he said, and
he wanted to get hot food.

Speaker 4 (42:02):
Finn does not like that.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
He jumps up, slams on the table and screams, do
you think this is a joke, And he's like, no, no,
no joke.

Speaker 4 (42:10):
I go there every day.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
I'm like, I think he's just explaining his day, Like
I don't h They're like so off base here, and
Munch goes not for long after this, you motherfucker, and
Finn gets in his face and goes, we're gonna we're
one blood test away from nailing your little scruffy ass
for rape, and Munch goes, should I used the condom, Harry,
And he's so scared, and he's scared of needles.

Speaker 4 (42:32):
He starts crying, no needles, no needles, and the.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Threat of a blood test is enough to get him talking,
so he says he was making his rounds. She came
out of the frat house. She was wobbly, it was late.
He followed her and she fell down a few times
and she was out cold. He took the money in
the cards, but he didn't rape anybody. And then it
cuts to a uniform cop taking him away and goes
and he goes, you, sons of bitches, you said no needles,

(42:54):
And then Munch really flatly says, yeah, well we lied.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
I like that. I love that a lot. I miss
I miss Munch.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
So our our friend sent me a link and there
was an auction and I was trying to get Munch's
business card, id badge and bat and police badge, and
I raised my limit once but I couldn't do it again,
so I didn't get it. But I'm glad it went
for a lot, and I'm glad like it was a
tough auction, and I tried.

Speaker 4 (43:27):
Yeah, do you know what it went for?

Speaker 1 (43:29):
In the end, No, I kind of just had to
excuse myself out. But I I wanted it.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
I wanted it. I would have I would have loved
to have it. But whoever has it, I'm happy for them.
So now it's a full team meeting and Cranion goes, Okay, listen,
but the if the blood test does not match, we're
back at zero. So let's at least come up with
another plan and still keep working. The panties are still
missing and six hours of her memory, so let's go
talk to other people that were at the party. So

(43:58):
we're at the Delta Cappa Delta sorority house and these
girls are fucking sluts off I've ever seen them.

Speaker 4 (44:05):
And the house is crazy. It's like purple.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
The curtains are lush, it's insane, and it's it seems
like a gay Dracula would live there, not like young girls.
It's really an opulent like Liberachi vibe. I would say, yeah,
and they're in leopard print highlights. I mean, these girls
are just like I bet the director goes to the

(44:27):
costume director, slut it up, slut it up, the perfect
costuming here I would say. So they played strip poker
last night retro. They got to the house at around eleven.
They then they called their friend Loose. They go, she
was hanging all over Joe and making a fool of herself,
and it's like with friends like these, who needs enemies?

(44:48):
They say, she was always glued to somebody. But once
Kelly was in her bron panties, they decided to leave.
And Benson's like, that's when you decided to leave. And
they're like, well, Kelly was giving Joe a lap dance,
and Stabler says and Joe and the brunette girl goes,
he was lapping it up, wouldn't you. And it's like, well,
you don't know, Detective Stabler, because he would never because

(45:08):
that is a representation of his daughter Maureen.

Speaker 4 (45:11):
So how dare you? How dare you?

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (45:15):
Damren?

Speaker 2 (45:16):
So we are with Joe now and he is in
a turtleneck with an attitude and I hate him, and
he goes, yeah, she had the hot ticket and I
would have loved to punch for it or punch it
for whatever, you know, punch a ticket. He's making a
funny joke, I guess, but also inappropriate. She is a
rape victim, So even if you didn't do it, why
are you talking like this? Like no humanity? But he goes,

(45:38):
but she puked all over the floor and ruined everything,
and then he calls his penis mister Happy. It's truly disgusting.
He keeps making jokes and it's a serious thing. So
the fact that he takes it so lightly or I
already said that I had it written later, Yeah, I
really believe it.

Speaker 4 (45:54):
So Bunch hates him too. Dub.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
He says that he let her sleep it off in
his room and he went to crash on the sofa.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
Yeah right.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Finn is talking to a man in a beige fleece
quarter zip and it's like a Nick Carter blonde center part,
very JTT hair, Like this is incredible, and both the browns,
the blonde hairs, they're all not trustworthy. Finn's ponytail is popping.
It's a showdown. And he also he goes, I slept
on the fucking floor. He says, I don't know what
this chick told you, but I heard she worked her

(46:25):
way through the Kappa SIGs and and it's like, okay,
but you still shouldn't rape a woman and throw her
in a bush, Like I don't get it. I like
the reasoning never even fully makes sense to me, and
I can't believe it's it's so accepted in our society.

Speaker 4 (46:40):
Like it's so crazy.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
It's like, well, she's sucked all those other people, so
who cares. I don't get how. I mean, I get how.
I'm not an idiot, but it's it's honestly, like continuing
today with all the body count talk, Yes, you know
how everybody's always talking about body count, It's like, what
does it matter, Like we've already talked about this, I

(47:02):
think on this podcast, but like.

Speaker 4 (47:04):
Well it's your nerd.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
It's this rise of authoritative religion policing body is it's
back to trying to trap women.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Yeah, but it also doesn't make any fucking physical sense.
Like yeah, I think like if I've gone out and
I've had sex with forty guys for one night stands,
I'm a huge slut. But if I'm a girl who's
had sex with my boyfriend one hundred and fifty times,
why does that make one person any more used up
than the other one? Are we talking about like stretched
out vaginas? What are we talking about? What are you

(47:31):
guys talking about.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
Well, I think men know they're like disgusting, So the
fact that you would let one inside of you like
decreases your value, like you know what I mean, Like
that's the whole thing where they go, if you're tricked
by a man and let him in you, you must
be a dumb whore. And I guess, yeah, I guess,
I guess you guys are right, But that's it, right

(47:53):
because if they didn't feel that, they were so disgusting
and devaluing of women, because it's like the whole thing
is having sex with you is what makes someone worse
in your eyes, So what does that say about you?

Speaker 4 (48:05):
Guys?

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Whatever, it's all upsetting, And he says she had her
eyes set on Joe, and Finn pushes, you think she
was asking for it?

Speaker 4 (48:13):
He goes, that's not what I said, but for a fact.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
It wasn't either me or Joe. And Finn is also
wearing like seven layers. It's like so many, so much
close vests and hoodies and ties and like a fucking
leather jacket, Like I don't know, he's not sweating. So
then we see Craigan in the middle of the precinct,
suspenders nice and tight holding those pants up, and he
has the most obvious update of all time. Harry's blood

(48:38):
type did not match the semen obviously sailors, just like, well,
her friend said that she put on the moves, and
Finn goes, yep. The boys also say she's loose, and
Craigan goes, wait, wasn't she a virgin? And so then
it's like all the boys now fighting Benson and she
and you know, they're like, well the boys were drunk too,

(48:58):
and hello, a lapdown.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
This is a strong message.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
And Finn straight up goes, I think buyer's remorse, and
she goes, I can't believe you're all blaming the victim,
and Craigan goes, we are not. And it's like, okay,
well now you're gaslighting you truly are. Craigan goes, no,
I'm on your side. But we all know how the
courts work and how law works, and like, we don't
have a case. So if you know it's the case,
isn't looking good, get shited together. So thank god Munch
is there and he's off the phone. Kelly's talk screen

(49:22):
Jet does show GHB, So there's GHB in the bloodstream,
and so there's no more ambiguity, is there now? Huh
that's what Benson says of really, I told you so
on her face. So the boys, I mean, Finn looks
down in shame. They're all wrong, and Craigan goes, there's
only one reason to give someone GHB, which is not true.
We do have friends that do it, but without alcohol,

(49:43):
so it just yes, I guess you could.

Speaker 6 (49:46):
At this.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Time, it feels like GHB is mostly like at they're
talking about it the date rape drug, but now, like ketamine,
like so many other things.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
You can use it recreationally, like carefully.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
I guess, yeah, very carefully, like this Jerson has like
a stop watch when he does it, no other liqu
you know, things are going in But yeah, I guess
I shouldn't promote ghbus recreationally. But it is the date
rape drug one hundred percent. So we have to find
out who spiked the drink and then you find your rapist.
So Stabler and Benson are doing you know, they're at

(50:19):
the college building. She's met with the dean of students
and they want her to do university court, not press
criminal charges, and Benson goes, but it's a crime, and
she goes, but what if it was my fault? And
then they are like, well, no, we found GHB in
your system and she doesn't even know what it is
and they're like, yeah, the chills, the vomiting, these oral
side effects, and Benson says, you could have died, Kelly,

(50:41):
and it's like okay, okay, and so then she of
course feels like it's her fault even more because she
didn't take anything. And they're like, no, we know someone
took away your ability to consent. He raped you. Kelly
asks well who, and Benson goes, that's what we're trying
to find out. We need you to help us. You
said you were drinking margarita. Did you ever leave your
drink unattended?

Speaker 4 (51:02):
Did you?

Speaker 2 (51:02):
And she goes, yeah, I went to dance and go
to the bathroom, but you know, I was on the
table with everyone else's drink.

Speaker 4 (51:07):
And they're like, how'd you feel when you left?

Speaker 2 (51:09):
She felt fine, And then when she was having beers
at the house is when she started to feel strange.
They ask if anyone else was there and she goes, well,
Wally Parker, and so a new name emerges, one of
the frat brothers. So but she says that Wally left
and it was just Hank and Joe who stayed back
with her, and Stabler tells her, like, keep this conversation

(51:31):
between us. Benson says, let us know if anything turns up.
She blinks really slowly and looks away. It's like a
really dramatic scene. So we're at the College keg bar
and college is spelled wrong, like with a k okay.
So the man says, do you know how many frat
rats are here every night? So we're at the keg
and then mun she's like, I wonder how many underage

(51:52):
people are here? And Finn then threatens, of course, to
send undercovers to the bar. So they show a photo
and this mustache guy it looks like a fireman. Really,
It goes, oh, that's the babe bets me a twenty
against a free beer that he can call a home
run like Babe Ruth. So he points out a girl
and if he could bagger, then he wins. They ask
for his batting average and he says he drinks a

(52:14):
lot more than he pays, so clue. They showed the
photo of Kelly and he goes. They go did he
step up to bat and swing?

Speaker 4 (52:23):
With her.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
I mean a lot of puns going on here for
rape instigation.

Speaker 4 (52:27):
You're talking to cops.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
I don't think anything could happen to the girl they're
showing in the picture of like.

Speaker 4 (52:31):
No, but the detectives say that, Oh, I thought the
guy I'm sorry. I was like, that's even like the
bartender needs to chill. Oh, but it is a lot.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
Yeah, the detections are like, it's like it's pun central
up in here.

Speaker 4 (52:44):
But the bartender, remember.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
I also love that they're offering to bring They're like
threatening to bring in undercovers. It's like, what's it going
to be Stabler in a jean jacket. I'm pretty sure
he'll fill your figure out.

Speaker 4 (52:53):
Who it is.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Benson with a pacifier around her neck. I think they'll
know the cops are there. Yeah, the forty five year
old Catholic man from Queen's. They all came in a group,
that's what the bartender says, and Joe picked her out
this time about fifty dollars against a picture, and they
walked out together. So we go to visit the dean

(53:15):
who can only assume we can only assume as a
dumb bitch, and she's in a Republican red skirt suit.
So she says that she gave Kelly her full support
and Benson's like, no, you're trying to convince her not
to press charges. She goes, I just gave her an
alternative to the criminal proceedings. The decision is hers and
Sailor's like, okay, well, how does this committee work? And
it's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It's three students,

(53:36):
three faculty. Each of the people present their case, they
can get up to three witnesses, and then the sentences
are suspension or expulsion. Why wouldn't students be listening to
rape stuff? Like, it's really crazy. It's a nineteen yearly crazy.
It's this whole system is built so that colleges can
keep their numbers down of crime, because that's a huge

(54:01):
thing people ask when they go on tours of schools,
is like, what's the criminal what are the criminal elements?

Speaker 4 (54:07):
What are the stats? And if you can keep your
stats down, then you.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Get people still coming and paying thirty to sixty thousand
dollars a year to go to your institution. And it's
a business, you know, Like, that's completely what it is.
I was on one of these committees at my school,
not for sexual misconduct, but other misconduct. And I had
no right to be on that. Why was I on that?
Like why am I deciding anyone's punishment. I had to

(54:31):
see a punishment. I had to see the case of
one of my friends and he was like older than
me and hot, and I was like, he's getting off.
I'm letting him go, like you.

Speaker 4 (54:41):
Know what I mean. But he didn't do anything sexual.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
This was like a thing that happened with like people
fighting with campus safety or something like that at my school.
But like, yeah, what I don't understand, Like it's crazy.
They're not even like we bring in an outside mediator, we.

Speaker 4 (54:58):
Get Yeah, I was just thinking, like, what it's safe?
He looks at it.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
It's like kids and staff and everybody the whole point.
It's like you're in a community, so everybody knows each
other and has pre existing shit with each other.

Speaker 4 (55:11):
So that's not fair. It's not fair really now you know.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
No, it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, and it
makes no one safer, nobody because you're not getting rid
of these criminals, and you're letting this behavior slide, like
you're putting more and more students at risk.

Speaker 4 (55:25):
It's like so fucked up.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
So Stabler asks if Joe and Hank have ever been
part of these hearings, and of course they're not at
liberty to say. Benson's like, a girl was drugged in rape?
Or are you're sure about that? And she goes, listen,
you need a court order, Like you guys know how
things work. So Benson and Sybla are walking outside the
school and of course they're chatting about Maureen. It's daughter
compare chat time and we can skip right through that

(55:48):
to Cabot. There's a coffee maker in the middle of
the room and I love that. I love seeing everyone
at work. And they're like, habit, we need the records,
you know, what can we do? What can we do?
But they need more evidence to get those So without
more evidence, you do not get the student records.

Speaker 4 (56:03):
So like, what are we gonna do?

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Munch says, what if we like fuck with the campus cop, Like,
let's let's try with him. He thinks they have some
camaraderie and it's like, uh, you get was pretty fucked
up interacri very rude to him, and Benson's like, and
there was a third guy mentioned Wally, So let's talk
to him. Craigan's like, yeah, all hands on deck. So
they find Wally and he's not a typical frack guy.

(56:26):
You could tell he's more of a loser and he
has a beard and he he he went to study.
He says, okay, like she had one margarita and he's studying.

Speaker 4 (56:34):
What's going on here? I Zach.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
So this guy's name is Zach Orth, the actor, and
I love him. He's in one of my favorite scenes
in VEEP. He's also in What Hot American Summer. He
plays JJ, but his longest role is for something called Revolution.
He was on it for like forty something episodes, but
he's been another SVU episode from season twenty six, episode four, Constricted,
So that means this season I saw, oh this.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
And I probably just watched it because I'm kind of behind.
Oh yes, Constricted is that episode that they just did
where the mom like gives her daughter and her boyfriend
like the house because she thinks that they're going to
like lose their virginity and she wants to be cute.

Speaker 4 (57:16):
Like like have it be special.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
But then this kid's dad showed him all this porn,
so like it's really violent and like bad and he
plays the bad dad. No, he's a defense attorney. And
actually I look this up on his IMDb. This defense
attorney he plays, Harry Kagan, is also in regular Law
and Order, So I think he's bouncing back a little
bit back and forth. JJ's bouncing back and forth in
the Dick Wolf universe playing a defense attorney of the

(57:39):
same name. Woweah yeah, maybe episodes not like a ton
but yeah, yeah, yeah, that episode was.

Speaker 4 (57:49):
So they're talking to Wally, they're talking to JJ.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
They're talking to Wally zach Orth okay, and he's acting
very like what do you mean?

Speaker 4 (57:56):
What? What? What? What do you mean by these questions?
In her action?

Speaker 2 (57:59):
What shocked? He's being asked anything? And they're like, well,
did you talk to her? Did she seem lucid? What
what's going on? And he's like she was partying but dressed.
And Stabler's like, did anything seem out of whack to you?
And He's like like, what he's playing so dumb? I'm
so annoyed right now. So then Stable's like, you tell me, like,
can you fucking start talking? You better play now, or

(58:20):
you know, we're really going to test your brotherhood. When
you're in criminal court. He looks down. He says, at
one pm, or probably one am, he says, at one
in the morning, he went downstairs for some water and
he saw Hank and Joe in the TV room, and
when he went upstairs, he saw that she was alone
in his room crying. There was puke and like her
hair was messed up, and she did look like she

(58:41):
needed a friend.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
He offered to walk her home.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
He went up to get you know, his coat, but
then she was gone by the time he came back.
So now it's fin in Munch with the fake cop
and he's like, what, you're back to bully me some more.
And they're like, honestly, we were too hard on you.
We're sorry, and he's like, you know, we're not all
wind up cops. I'm finished my criminology degree next month
and I'm applying to the FEDS. And Munch goes, you know,

(59:04):
my cousin's a g man. I didn't know being an
FBI as g Mann. Do you know what that is?

Speaker 4 (59:09):
Like weird? No, yeah, and I don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Yeah. Oh, it's a it's government. It stands for any
being government. Yeah, it stands for government. Man.

Speaker 4 (59:21):
I guess yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
So then Munch offers to put in a good word
as a professional courtesy, and this guy's not that dumb.

Speaker 4 (59:28):
He goes, Okay, what do you want? Why are you
really here?

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Like, you're not here to help me out because you
feel bad for bullying me when I was clearly in
the wrong about having you speed up a rape case,
you know, investigation.

Speaker 4 (59:39):
So they ask about Joe and.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
Getting information from him and how the school won't give
up any info, and he's like, oh, you want me
to ignore campus policy so you can help make your case,
And Munch goes, no, we want to like help nail
our rapists. So he thinks about it and says, off
the record, that guy's nothing but trouble. I get more
complaints about that frat house than any other frat on campus.

(01:00:01):
He continues, there's a woman on the swim team that
said he raped her. No charges because the campus court
figured it out. They did the thing, and Templeton got
her drunk and then did her in a stupor. That's
a direct quote. I didn't come up with that. And
they go to talk to this woman and her name
is Mandy Shoemaker. She's at the pool, and they really
do look like Men in Black here? And I can't

(01:00:22):
believe those comparisons have never been made, like they.

Speaker 4 (01:00:26):
Are prime times like Men in Black. It's really cool.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
And then the girl is dripping wet because there is
another episode where Kara caught that, like a woman comes
out of the pool but she has bone dry in
her scenes. I think it was for one of our
live episodes, so I was very closely paying attention this.

Speaker 4 (01:00:44):
It's for Lust, it's Wanderlust.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Yeah, yeah, she is wet fully, Oh Wanderlust.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Oh my god, a good episode. So she did and
they talked to her. She has not even taken her
goggles off, like she picks herself fut from out of
the pool, goggles fully still on, and they're like, so
you got raped. Ay, It's like, can you give her
a moment to take off her swim cap? Like it's
just so aggressive, but she's cool.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
I will just say that this actress that plays Mandy
is named Elizabeth Hendrickson, and I just quickly looked her
up because she looked familiar a soap opera queen. She's
been on All My Children sixty five episodes. She's been
on General Hospital sixty nine episodes. She's been on Young
and the Restless nine hundred and fifty four episodes. So
this lady is soaping it up. Oh, I just thought

(01:01:31):
that was interesting. You never really see those kind of
numbers on IMDb.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
No, that's soap. That's that's delegated for soap stars only.
So she was at a rush party and he hit
on her. They danced a little, they drank, and then
she remembers just him on top of her, pulling her hair,
and she had terrible hickeys and she did not know
how she got home. So then Finn is like, I
don't understand why everyone is so rude. He's being like stabler,

(01:01:57):
vibe rude. Everyone is rude to her, like all these girls.
And Finn is like, how do you know that you
were raped? And she's like, well, I didn't until a
few weeks later. I realized I was raped because I
was pregnant and I had to get an abortion. And
Munch goes, why didn't you go to the cops. She says,
I talked to a lawyer and then my advisor, and
they both said there's not much of a case. There's
no evidence, and I have no memory. So they did

(01:02:18):
school court. They found him guilty of conduct onbecoming a student,
and he got academic probation for one semester. She's like,
I still see him on campus and he tried to
even fucking ask me out after she slapped him, and
now he just snickers about and she goes, it's like
being raped all over again, and she walks off. And
so now we're back at work. Benson has files and

(01:02:39):
there's an excitement there. She goes into the rapists not
only left semen, but gone a rhea. Uh oh, So
then the gift that keeps on giving, but at least
it's evidence like sorry, everyone has gone a rhea, but
you know, kind of positive. So then Craigan doesn't really
care and just says, well, we have to tie him
to the GHB and we can arrest him.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
That's all we need to do.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
And Cabot's there and she's like that there's just not
enough for a search warrant, but it's enough to subpoena
the student records, and if we can get those records
to match Mandy's testimony, then we can get a search warrant.

Speaker 4 (01:03:08):
So they go they get the court order. Fuck yeah,
fuck you to the dean.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Give us the records and now they're in the frat
rooms going ham okay. Wally's like trying to be their
little protector, like you can't invade their privacy like that,
they're not even home, and Benson's like, we can, and
we are, like are you fucking stupid? And they find
blood stains, they find a dropper and then yeah, we're
like in the lab and the dropper matches the drugs

(01:03:32):
and the victim it's the same batch. It is proven
now and he goes, it's actually uncommonly very pure. It's
super pure, and he says, who ever made this had
access to a lab. So we're back at home base
and Sailor's like, oh my god, Joe's been a busy
boy and it's always the same. He like gets them
fucked up, pulls their hair and there's always hickeys, and

(01:03:53):
then it's what do we have here? So then they're
looking at the files and one of the three witnesses
there are so like, you know, during the student things,
you need three witnesses. He only had two, one of
which was his father, excuse me, and it was just
being a character witness.

Speaker 4 (01:04:08):
And guess what. He gives tons of money to the school.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
He's an alumni of the school, like things are named
after him, so no wonder. Joey keeps getting off the
stuff and Craigan goes, not this time, go get him.
Munch goes to arrest these losers and they had control
substances and that's not legal, so arrest them now. A
man walks into Craigan's office and goes, I demand to
see my son, very missus Potts. Who am I thinking

(01:04:33):
of Angela Lansbury from the episode Night.

Speaker 4 (01:04:37):
Yes, yeah, And they're like.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Well, the police commissioner is a friend. Don't make me
call him, right?

Speaker 4 (01:04:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
It is pretty disrespectful to her that I just can't.

Speaker 4 (01:04:48):
She's Missus Pott, miss me.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
I feel terrible, like a career spanning so long, so
whatever nobody cares, you know, he can't swing is dick here.
No one cares about you here. And then the dad
tries to play hardball and I'm his dad. I get
to be in there, and Crane goes, you're a fucking idiot.
He's an adult, so no, you don't have the right
to be in there, and then he threatens do you

(01:05:11):
want me to go over your head? And Craigan stands
up stoneface. Yeah, I'm not some college dean. You can
intimidate with threats, and nothing you're doing right now is
gonna help your son, not one damn bit. And the
dad does hang his head in shame like he knows,
and he knows he raised a rapist. So he goes,
do you have children, Captain? Which I didn't know that.

(01:05:33):
The captains get the detective back of merch. Yeah, back
a round of merch. Do you have children, Captain? I
love and that's a you know, yeah, we're gonna plug it,
or do you have children? Detective Merch is incredible And
I use the bag for soul cycle.

Speaker 4 (01:05:48):
It's always has.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
My shoes and the T shirt is very soft. Yeah
I'm cute and I get comments. It's a conversation starter.
People love it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:55):
Yeah by it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
And then crazily, the rapist is in woodroom blinds, which
kind of wild, but they're batting him around and his
lawyer's standing in the corner and they're like, listen, we
know you have gone rhea and he giggles and denies
it and they're like, well, blood doesn't lie. Benson bends
down and says, since she was a virgin, we know
she got it from you. His lawyer says, circumstantial, but
not really if she's only had one encounter. Stabler's like, Babe,

(01:06:18):
once the blood matches, the semen, you're gonna go to
a campus upstate. And the lawyer goes, well, you need
a court order for the blood, and Benson goes, oh,
we both know that's just a formality. But Joe does
get to walk out and leave, and so now we're
with the other boy and they go, hey, you know
this GHP charge isn't going to be really good since
you already have an ecstasy charge from your past. You
know your toast and the boy's lawyer is Actually, she

(01:06:41):
looked familiar. I looked her up. She's in seven episodes
of s Tovie seven. She's in the episode season four
Soulless as the guidance counselor, and then she's in season fourteen, fifteen, seventeen,
and twenty six as d D.

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):
Densler. So I'm assuming a lawyer.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
Wait, there's a reason I looked her up because she
looked really familiar, and I only looked at they to you,
But I think she's in I think she's in Sextons
the City. Let me go back on her, IMDb, let
me go back. I sweach. I think I figured it out.

Speaker 4 (01:07:08):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Oh I don't know why I didn't look further. I
just saw all those and I assumed that's how I
knew her. You know what I mean? But her face
is coming back to me. Mary McCann, is that who
it is?

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
Texas City Lesbie, Yeah, the cheating curve Lydia.

Speaker 4 (01:07:26):
I knew it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
I can't believe I didn't see it, but I know
yet I knew it. Yeahs a power lesbian. I am
a power lesbian.

Speaker 4 (01:07:32):
Yep. Mary B.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
McCann, power lesbian. I mean, what an iconic episode. We'll
never forget. Melinda Warner as well.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
So she pipes up like, hey, hey, hey, the ecstasy
it was expunged. And they're like, yeah, if he kept
himself clean till twenty one, but I guess he couldn't
do that. So you're going back to jail bay. He's
getting stressed, his head's in his hands, and then Finn
finally goes, we're gonna get you for rape, and the
boys like wait, what, no way, and the lawyer's like okay,
scare tactic like shut up and she says, what are

(01:08:02):
you offering? And Munch sits on the corner of a
desk and goes, what are you offering? And the boy
thinks and goes, I never saw the stuff, and they're like, well,
how did it get in your room? He says, I
don't know, but Tests and Jodi were acting weird all
night and kept topping off her drinks. I told you
those outfits were skinks. I said, these are some skanky bitches,
and I was right, No, it can't be. The girls like,

(01:08:23):
I am so upset, And he said they kept calling
it a love potion, but he thought it was like
just a joke.

Speaker 4 (01:08:29):
And he's like, I really didn't know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
But finally he gives actual scoop and basically Joe then
throws a blanket at Hank and goes hit the bricks,
and then he said to and then he said to
his friend, I'm about to hit another home run. So
we're back at the precinct and they need answers, and
Benson's like, okay, I know who might have the answers.
Let's go talk to Dana aka Michelle Monahan. Benson and

(01:08:52):
Stable are in an outdoor crisp cold walk and talk
on campus. She says, Kelly and Test didn't get along
very well at first. In fact, tried to get Kelly
rejected by the membership, and then like she doesn't want
to say why, and then like she's being kind of,
you know, quiet, and Benson goes, girl, I don't know
what pressure these girls are giving you, but you can
either live with these dumb bitches, or you can live

(01:09:13):
with yourself and being like, you know, impeding on your
friend's rape investigation.

Speaker 4 (01:09:18):
So who do you want to be?

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
And she spills and so basically, Joe and Test were
dating last semester. Kelly's knew and she didn't know, so
when Joe was checking her out and she was lurting back,
Test was pissed. And then when Joe dumped her, she
blamed Kelly. And then she overheard Test talking in the
bathroom that she has the clap. So Test has the clap,

(01:09:39):
which means Joe has the clap and gave it to Kelly,
so this is a clap chain. And she heard something
about this girl being like and I'm going to get
even with him. So then it was super strange and suddenly,
you know, Test is being super nice to Kelly and
wanting to be her big sister, but then talking behind
her back and spreading all these rumors. And she saw

(01:10:00):
the mixing chemicals in their room. I mean, the evidence
is piling up. So these bitches set her up. They
did the mixing the day before they all went out.
It looked like they were doing homework. There was a notebook,
and they do have an organic chem lab at the school.
So we're now at the organic chem lab at the school.
They open her station, they bag everything as she walks in.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
And wait, let me just tell you something about this actress.
So this is a crazy, crazy little IMDb chain here.
So this actress's name is Marika Dominisic and she is
the sister of Dougmara Dominsic, who was just in the
last episode we covered Pandora as the agent in Prague
who is going around with Stabler.

Speaker 4 (01:10:42):
So there's fiers in real life.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
And I told you she Doagmara is married to Patrick Wilson.
Marika is married to somebody famous too, and guess who
it fucking is Scott Foley from the episode Hammered. Yes,
So these sisters are acting and they are marrying other
famous actors and she's literally I think has been on

(01:11:05):
Grey's Anatomy. This girl, she's very beautiful, Like I was like,
I was, like, she looks familiar, but yeah, a few
eleven episodes of Grey's Anatomy. This girl but also married
to another NSVU from a classic that we do on
the road called Hammered. But anyway, yeah, I kind of
love Yeah, a whole family of actors.

Speaker 4 (01:11:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
I think they have another sister who's an actor too,
but I don't know her. I don't know if she's
as prolific as them.

Speaker 4 (01:11:30):
So yeah, So like.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
Basically, she walks in, she sees what they're doing, she
starts running away. She runs right into her room, where
Benson and Stabler are already searching. It's like incredible, and
Stanba goes, oh out for a little jog.

Speaker 4 (01:11:44):
She looks worried they hand over the warrant.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
She goes, this is harassment, and Benson goes, so sue me,
but she knows she's gotten. And we're back at the
sixteenth So now the and then Tessa is the Brunette.
If you were wondering if it was Highlights or Brunette,
it's the Brunette. And you know they're like Possession is
one thing, but if we get you on conspiracy, we're
gonna get you on rape. And her head whips around

(01:12:06):
fast rape and Benson goes, yeah, you took away her
ability to consent, and she says, you'll never prove that,
like what a confident little killer?

Speaker 4 (01:12:15):
Like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
She So they start bullying her and she has frosty
eyeshadow and she just she just shrugs and goes, I
better call a lawyer, and she's giving like rich diplomat
parent vibe, you know what I mean. And then Benson
goes be my guest and hands her a phone and
it's an old style phone just with such heaviness and
I missed that part of my life, like holding a

(01:12:37):
handle and a bike, like I don't know, but they're
watching this girl from the Spyglass.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Jared just went to go see this horror movie where
there was like a whole gag in it where like
they're running away from like the murderer or whatever, and
they get a rotary phone and they're like call someone,
but like no one knows how to use the phone.
They're like, how do you do this? What movie is that?
That's funny? He saw this movie called clown in a cornfield, okay,
and I think it's pretty much what it sounds like.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
Yeah, So they walk away slowly, but they're watching this
girl on the spyglass use this phone. And she's wearing
a pink Sorority sweatshirt and swinging her hair, and she
stands up and like anxiously to make this call. Stabler
asks Craigan, who's spying as well, like do you think
she'll take the bait? And he says, well, no, soon enough,
and so yeah, she calls the blonde bitch, who hangs

(01:13:24):
up starts running downstairs. Michelle Monaghan starts following her down
the stairs. She runs to the basement. It's like a deep,
weird storage and she pulls out a bag and it's
very bicycle messenger bag of the two thousands, Like I
have such a memory of this kind of bag and
the logo and stuff, and so there's vials in it,
glass bottles, I mean, a full fucking thing of potions.

(01:13:45):
And she holds it and starts to walk away, but
Munch and Finn are already in the basement waiting there
with a warrant, and Michelle Monahan is standing behind them,
and the blonde girl says, you bitch. So we're in
cement room bars Benson and Stable are taking her on.
Benson like, well, Jody, prison is no sorority, but the
bright side is you might still be young enough to
have kids when you get out.

Speaker 4 (01:14:05):
What a retro dig this girl.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
This girl is giving Ari Grainer in the episode Damaged
very like, you don't scare me, like, I am not
intimidated here. So they have enough evidence to put her
into prison, so like she should be a little bit worried,
and she goes, my father would never let that happen.
But they're like, Babe, your fingerprints actually on the eye dropper.
And then Benson tries to level with her and goes, listen,

(01:14:32):
I was in a sorority. I understand sisterhood. But test
sold you out so it doesn't really matter. And she
says no, and it's like she made that phone call
that put you in the basement, So tell us the
truth or not, we don't care. They go, we know
she hated Joe, not you, and she says, oh, you
don't know, Tess. If she did that to Kelly, what
would she And then the lawyer like knocks knocks, you're

(01:14:54):
done talking to her and this guy, James Woodrow was
a very old money vibes, and we learned that her
father is a justice, so it's like Justice Tom Wilson's
not gonna love this. So Benson and Stabler walk out
defeated and cabits relaxed and confident, like at least we
got them on possession possibly rape three. Then Munch walks
in with bad news. The semen does not match Joe

(01:15:17):
or Hank, and then what about the clap? And then
Munch's rifling through the papers and is like, wait, remember
that scarf we found in the bushes. There were actually
two hair fibers on the scarf. One belongs to Kelly
and the other does match the semen. So we have like,
I think she was raped by two people that night.
I think it's like Joe gave her the clap. And

(01:15:38):
then we have this other person with the semen and
the hair. So Stable and Benson meet her on campus.
They show her the scarf and they're like, hey, like,
do you know about the scarf? Who's scarf? Is this
what's going on? And she's trying and then something clicks
in her brain. So basically this scarf had fish on it.
And then it's like the nick so it's like wall eyes,

(01:16:00):
walle eyes are all over it, and Wally so Wally
as this fish scarf that it's you know, you mightn't.

Speaker 4 (01:16:07):
I don't really wow, I didn't even pick that up.
It is a stretch. It's a stretch, not a bright move.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
Giving like Kelly the scarf, and Benson goes, oh, did
she steal it? She probably stole it high and he's like, yeah,
most have and they're like from where He's saying like, oh,
he doesn't know where the closer key, like he doesn't
know what's going on. He's trying to act dumb again,
do this little game. And they're like, well, you already
said you were in Joe's room, so like, what did
you do Later He's like, yeah, no, I told you
I studied and they're like, but you found Kelly alone.

Speaker 4 (01:16:38):
What'd you do then?

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
And he sticks to his OG's story of like offering
to walk her home her leaving without him, but he
looks nervous, and that's before they even tell him that
the semen and hair match him, and then Stabler's like, well,
why are you lying? And it's like the dumbest question
of all time, It's like, obviously to get away with
a crime, Like what do you mean, why is he lying?
He's in police investigation, like why aren't you giving us
all the evidence? But he does start to spill finally

(01:17:04):
that she was just sitting there. She looks sad. I
took her to my room. I brushed her hair back
from her face. For the first time, she looked at
me like she actually saw me. We sat on the
bed and talked, she kissed me, and then the rest
just happened. And he did not know that she was drugged.
He thought she wanted to be with him. So then
it's like and then I'm just annoyed, like why nothing
is ever easy at sv you like nothing ever. So

(01:17:26):
now we're in Craigan's office and Kab it's like it
does not matter if he knew or didn't know about
the drugs, Like there's no deal, and we have all
the DNA evidence that we need, and Stabler's defending him,
like we're gonna ruin this kid's life because he misread signals.
And she goes, if we give him a deal, we
send mixed signals to the grand jury. You can't indict
these sorority girls and not offer up the rapist. And

(01:17:47):
this is very like the episode intent, like a lot
of steps need to happen to like get who did
something wrong. So if we also want to get Joe
on the rape, like we need to get the girls
and we need to get this guy, and we need
to like put all this together. And she goes, maybe
if Wally helps, I can lower his charge, but like,
I'm not giving him a deal, and I can't believe
there's so gung ho about giving this guy a deal.

(01:18:08):
But they need to put Joe away. So we're at
the grand jury. Kelly's there, She's getting pumped up by Marishka.
She's so scared, she's confused that she's doing the right thing,
and you know, Benson's yeah, helping her out.

Speaker 4 (01:18:19):
She sees one of the guys.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
She's stressed, you know, she doesn't like it, but she's
on the stand and then we and it's kind of
like a quick scene of like Kelly's on the stand
and the CSU texts on the stand and he talks
about amnesia being a side effect, so we need that
so the grand jury understands why the memory loss. Stabler's
then on the stand, we have a Michelle Monaghan. Now
we have a Hank the medical examiner. I mean it's

(01:18:41):
really a hoozoo. It's like an SNL sketch where each
each person has to get their impression in.

Speaker 4 (01:18:46):
So the medical examiner Beard Man.

Speaker 2 (01:18:49):
So yeah, so this is what happens where I guess
this is where we learned about like Wally does not
have the clap, so, like I said, like the claps
from Joe stemens from Wally, both of them like disgusting
is now on the stand. They found her underwear behind
his headboard. And then now Cabit sating lunch in the
office and she has tough news. Wally's going to testify

(01:19:10):
to the grand jury, and they kind of find that weird.
But they're saying, like the lawyer wouldn't do that if
they didn't have a reason, and could and like she
keep and Cabot needs to get the answer, like could
anything have happened to make Wally think there's consent? Like
anything before that night? So they're talking to Kelly, They're like,
did you ever flirt with him? She goes no, and

(01:19:30):
then goes, well maybe they had a couple classes together,
and she goes that he was a whiz on the classics,
and so she invited him for coffee to get some
educational scoop and you know that might be enough Ammo
to plead innocent.

Speaker 4 (01:19:44):
Like that is so crazy the way the world works.

Speaker 2 (01:19:46):
So like, because you have coffee over books with a
guy that's consent to sex, like I just like, yeah,
that's what I mean, like logically, Like I just don't
understand how any of these things are valid or accepted
or even like tried.

Speaker 4 (01:19:58):
I don't understand.

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
Yeah, because she wanted to study with a guy, that
means that she must have wanted a fuck day like
days later.

Speaker 4 (01:20:08):
I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
Yeah, it's like crazy, like that could work in a court,
like for a grand jury.

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
I mean, it's like the whole thing we just posted about,
this thing called Denham Day that's like based on a
case in Italy where it's like a guy got off
and that's in Italy, but because a woman was wearing
tight jeans, that was her consent, was the tight jeans,
like you know, so of course sitting down with them
for a cup of coffee and a conversation that's basically
a green light do whatever you want.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
Like gross, Yeah, so he's on the stand and he
keeps being like, I didn't know she was drugged. I
swear I didn't know. But Kebit's about to get his ass.
She goes, you saw vomit on the floor. He says, yes,
you saw her disheveled appearance. He says, yes, matted hair,
watery eyes, Yes, yes, And you still didn't know that
she was under the influence. And he's like, I just

(01:20:59):
thought she was tired, and Cabbot goes, oh, really, you
thought she was tired, and he admits, like, well, an upset.
She looked sad, so Cabot goes, and you took that
as an invite to have sex her being sad and tired?

Speaker 4 (01:21:11):
Like what?

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
And he starts scuttering a little, and Cabbot pushes, did
she say she wanted to have sex with you?

Speaker 4 (01:21:18):
He says, she flirted with me?

Speaker 2 (01:21:20):
She asks when he says, in class and at the
coffee shop, and Cabbot goes, okay, did she say she
wanted to have sex with you? Then he says no.
Then asked, did she say she wanted to have sex
with you the night you took her into your room?
He says she didn't have to, and Cabot goes, well,
I'll take that as a nome. What do you mean
she didn't have to What do you mean she didn't
have to like what He's like, Well, she kissed me,

(01:21:42):
and Cabbot goes, okay, so you took that as a
green light to do whatever you wanted. He goes, well, no,
I never said, and she goes, so there's vomit, her
hair is matt her eyes are blurry. And you still
thought she wanted to fuck? And he says yes, and
she says, I guess it was your lucky night, and
he licks his lips looks off. Benson and Cabitt are
on a bench waiting outside of the courtroom. Cabbot gets

(01:22:04):
given a paper and this obviously reminds me of my
failed audition as a process server from many years ago,
where it is a simple job and I couldn't I
couldn't hand the paper over.

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
Okay, so so humiliating to get a shirt out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
They were like, you could just please leave. So anyways,
enough about my failed audition. So Cabbitt get gets given
a paper, she hands it to Benson and then like
music starts to play, so we know it's not going
to be positive. So they're down to indict the girls
on charges, but not the boys, like I. So the
girls get in trouble for drugging the girl, but the

(01:22:44):
boys don't get in trouble for raping the girl. I
don't she never consented, And this is why men want
to get rid of consent.

Speaker 4 (01:22:51):
Like what the fuck that all? With all that evidence?

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
Yeah, because it's like for for like men in charge,
it's like, well they had drugs.

Speaker 4 (01:23:01):
We've got a war on drugs, so it's for them,
it's the drugs. Why Also, no, I also think it
was seen as an excuse for her.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
It's like, well, the boys didn't know that she was drugged,
and it's like, but they knew she was wasted, blacked
out beyond belief, even if she they didn't know about
the JHB. It's just like it's so fucked up. So anyways,
Benson goes to talk to Kelly to like tell her
the news, but is wearing a beret?

Speaker 4 (01:23:23):
Not the time for a silly hat? Benson, what are
you doing? I knew.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
I was like, I can't wait to hear Lisa's take
on this fucking hat wear.

Speaker 4 (01:23:31):
This is wild.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
You're about to tell a girl she'll never see justice
for her double rape and she and her friends drugged
her to get raped, and.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
She's like, I'll put on them around a jaunty chapeau.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
But the grand jury was split on the issue of
consent whatever, but the dean did expel them, and she says, well,
it hardly seems worth it, and Benson goes, you did
the right thing. But she also never took the abortion pills.
What if she's pregnant, and ben'son goes, I'm not the
right person to ask talk to someone else, kid, and

(01:24:06):
so she also Kelly is like, I haven't even told
my parents yet, and Benson goes, well, it might be
a good time now, and then Kelly walks off in
the like most ambiguous weird ending.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
Ugh. Wait, so I'm still having watched this episode several times.
What's the order of events? Like did the bat did
the gonorrhea guy attack her first?

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
And then yeah, I think what happened was, you know,
like he threw a blanket at his friend and goes like,
go sleep on the floor. I'm about to hit a
home run, and I think he raped her while she
was like pretty fucked up, and then did go downstairs
to sleep on the couch for an alibi, and that's
when Wally saw the boys both on the couch and
went and took his shot with her in the room.

Speaker 1 (01:24:51):
Oh yeah, okay, that's the order of operations fucked up.
We need to teach a men and boys to be better.

Speaker 4 (01:25:01):
It's bad.

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
Let's get into the real cases. Well, the first case
that I was going to talk about is just the
Hillary farious case, and this is actually just about the GHB.
Like Hillary, Farius was a seventeen year old high school
student in Laporte, Texas. She didn't even drink, she didn't

(01:25:27):
even party. She was a varsity volleyball player. She was
out with her friends. This is August third of nineteen
ninety six. She's at a teen dance club and when
she gets home, she's nauseous, she has a horrible headache,
and then she's found on August fourth, not breathing and
nonresponsive and she died. And initially they couldn't explain her
death because her talk screen didn't show any drugs or
any alcohol. But after authorities kind of found out about

(01:25:51):
this club drug called gamma hydroxybed tyrate. And I hope
I'm saying that the right way, that's GHB. They tested
her for it and that's when they found it. So
all she drank that night was soda and she was
obviously slipped the drug, which is known on the streets
as liquid X or easy lay. It has like a
million other different street names, but those are a couple,

(01:26:12):
and it's basically I found out that GHB can be
made easily with rudimentary knowledge of chemistry, and there are
instructions for how to make it online, So that's essentially
what happened with these two girlies.

Speaker 4 (01:26:24):
It's odorless, it's nearly tasteless.

Speaker 1 (01:26:26):
It's got like a little bit of a salty taste,
but if you're having a margarita or something, you probably
wouldn't taste it. It depresses the respiratory system fast, especially
when alcohol is also involved, and not enough oxygen gets
to the brain, which causes the memory loss and slipping
in and out of consciousness. And it's a really really
fine line between the dosage to knock someone out and

(01:26:47):
the dosage to kill someone. Then there was another girl
named Samantha Reid who was a fifteen year old girl
who was drugged with GHB and her soda as well,
and died. So in nineteen ninety eight, Representative Sheila Jack
and Lee of Texas introduced a bill called the Hillary J.
Farrius and Samanthai Date Rape Drug Prohibition Act, which eventually

(01:27:08):
was signed into law by Bill Clinton in two thousand,
which made gh BE illegal, and it also made it
easier to apprehend drug producers who were making drugs that
were just like GHB, but just like a little bit off,
like they would change the chemistry, make up a little
bit of it so that it was not actually GHB
but does the exact same thing. But now this bill
encompasses all GHB, you know, everything in the GHB family essentially,

(01:27:33):
and because these dealers were getting away with it, and
so now it expanded the definition of what GHB was
to include similar drugs, and it also encouraged education programs
about date rape substances. But I don't think in either case.
I literally found the oldest website that Hillary's family set
up for her, like truly like one of the first
websites you've ever seen that had like music plays, and

(01:27:56):
it's like a high school picture of her, and like
the links are all overlapping each other because it's like
old e HTML like this is just like a poor
girl who's like life was just totally cut short and
she wasn't dating drink.

Speaker 4 (01:28:10):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:28:10):
I don't think they found out in either of these
cases what happened. I really looked if anyone has any
other information, let me know. But in these cases I
tried to find if anybody was charged for them, and
I don't think anyone was, so it just became like
more of a and there was no sexual assault in
either of these cases.

Speaker 4 (01:28:25):
They was just GHB deaths.

Speaker 1 (01:28:27):
So that's like a little bit about just the GHB
and that happened, like this bill went into was signed
in two thousand and then this episode came out in
oh one.

Speaker 4 (01:28:35):
So obviously GHB is making.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
The rounds and that's like how it gets probably to
the writers, and you know, we know Neil Behars got
his finger on the pulse. So the case that this
is most likely the most based on. There were a
couple of others listed on the internet when you look
around on what stuff's based on, and one was the
Alex Kelly case, which I would love to cover because
that is a rapist from Connecticut who escaped to Europe

(01:28:57):
and his parents supported him while he was a fugitive
in Europe, and that was the case of my youth.
Like when I was growing up, everybody was always like
out like this is disgusting. But at our hockey games
against those teams, against the team of the town where
he's from, people would chant Alex Kelly's name like this
was like a big part of our lives was that
this town next to my town had this rapist who
was on the lamb and the entitlement and of parents

(01:29:21):
supporting their kid who's done these crimes but won't let
him stand trial and are supporting him in Switzerland while
he's skis. I'd love to cover that trial, but I
don't think it has anything to do with this case.
So this episode seems most based on the case of
Sarah Kline and Adam Lack. In February of nineteen ninety six.
Sarah Klein is a freshman at Brown University in Providence,

(01:29:42):
Rhode Island. One of my best friends went there at
Ivy League school. Was she was drinking with a bunch
of friends before hitting a fraternity party at Delta Tau.
And this case actually doesn't really have anything to do
with the GHP it's more of the consent issue. So
I think that the writers at this time were like
merging these two issues of like GHB is everywhere and

(01:30:03):
also when does consent come into play? So there's no
drugging in this episode that I know of. But Kleine
later admitted to drinking as many as ten shots before
heading to the party, so she was drinking. Later that evening,
a junior named Adam Lack found Klein having just thrown up.
He claimed he offered her water and that she walked

(01:30:24):
unassisted to his room, where she initiated sexual contact. And
he later said also he had no idea she was drunk,
and it's like if someone you find someone next to
a pile of vomit, like let's just immediately go with
Like she didn't just have some bad shrimp, you know,
like if you're a college she did, leave her alone. Yeah,
leave her alone. Anyone who just threw up does not
want to have sex. Probably. Lack said that they talked

(01:30:49):
and they smoked cigarettes for hours. When they woke up
in the morning, they exchanged numbers. He walked her back
to her dorm room. He called her a bunch of times.
They eventually talked on the phone and he told her, yeah,
like we had sex, and she said, did you use
a condom?

Speaker 4 (01:31:01):
And he said yes.

Speaker 1 (01:31:02):
She had no memory of anything happening after getting to
the party. So then five weeks go by and Klein
files a complaint with the Office of Student Life in
March of nineteen ninety six, accusing lack of sexual misconduct.
No criminal charges were ever filed, like probably after five
weeks there wasn't physical evidence, and you know that would
have been even a tough case for Olivia Benson and

(01:31:24):
Elliott Stabler to make happen that five weeks have gone by,
But she did go to the University Disciplinary Committee the
UDC they call it, which is an internal board made
up of students and staff. Just like in the episode,
she claimed she remembered nothing about the evening and therefore
was too intoxicated to consent. Lack was like, Klein is

(01:31:44):
the one that initiated the sexual piece.

Speaker 4 (01:31:46):
I had no clue she was drunk.

Speaker 1 (01:31:48):
And this case pretty much consumed Brown University and eventually
became part of a wider cultural firestorm about political correctness
backlash against feminism. The concept of gray rape eventually gets introduced,
and what the university and what The Brown Daily Harold
called a case of he said, she can't remember. So

(01:32:10):
there's all this stuff going on at this time, Like
I mean, like I'm in college, you're in high school.
It's like I remember feeling like, oh, yeah, it's okay
for girls to hook up, like you can be you.

Speaker 4 (01:32:22):
Know, but you definitely don't want to be called a slut.

Speaker 1 (01:32:24):
Like there's definitely this thing where women's empowerment is growing
and women are feeling more empowered to be sexual. Like
I mean, think about Sex and the City starts in
nineteen ninety nine, right, Like, Samantha's this major character who's
going after what she wants and sleeps with whoever she
wants and is after her own pursuit of pleasure. And
that's like a revolutionary character in nineteen ninety nine, right

(01:32:45):
two years before this episode comes out.

Speaker 4 (01:32:47):
So after this.

Speaker 1 (01:32:49):
Episode, which I always think this shows a little bit
ahead of its time, into that. Around two thousand and seven,
a Washington Post journalist named Laura session Stepp wrote an
article about Gray and I don't think it's the first
time it's been used, but this is a pop Like
Cosmopolitan wrote an article about it, like there's all kinds
of this is a big time for okay, like women

(01:33:10):
are allowed to initiate sexual contact more and we're not
going to judge women for being sexual, but then also
we're still blaming them for getting into situations where they
could be sexually assaulted. So it's really it's like this
is a time where this conversation is happening in the
culture everywhere, and everyone's talking about well political correctness. Like

(01:33:31):
I mean, so she wore a skirt and went on
the date, and they had dinner, and she had a
bunch of drinks and she started making out with him,
and then it's like there was no concept of this,
like you can say no whenever you want. That we
that we are trying to have today. I don't know
if that's widespread, but we're trying to say you can
be in the middle of something and say stop, and
it should end that this was not happening back in

(01:33:51):
these these days. So this woman, Laura session Step writes
this article about gray rape and highlights incidents where both
parties are very intoxicated and says the line of consent
is gray.

Speaker 4 (01:34:03):
Caused a huge stir.

Speaker 1 (01:34:05):
I read this New York Times article about it, which
I will obviously link to in my show notes. But
they spoke to Chitra Ragavon, who is a psychologist at
John Jay College of Criminal Justice, which is in the
city and is a College of Criminal Justice. She conducts
research on intimate partner violence and rape, and she disagreed
with what the article said because the article was like, oh, well,

(01:34:25):
now it's a modern society where it's acceptable for women
to pursue casual sex. She says, I would respectfully disagree
that women have been sexually empowered to hook up. What's
happened is that women are not legislated anymore. There's a
huge difference for it to be legal for women to
pursue sex and for it to be socially acceptable for
women to pursue sex. So as much as we're saying you, yeah,

(01:34:46):
you're a free woman, it's the nineties, it's the two thousands.
Go out and get what you want. Like we're still
socially going, but you're kind of responsible for men's sexualis.

Speaker 3 (01:34:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
There was like a thing in Russia a long time
ago where it was like maybe there was a sexual revolution,
but there was an a feminist.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
Revolution, and so right, right, yeah, it doesn't really help, so,
she says. Ragavaan says to The New York Times that
many studies have shown that rapes often do not involve
physical violence or coercion because the mere threat or potential
for physical harm is enough to make victims submit. She
also says, quote studies have shown that women's sexual interactions

(01:35:24):
do not change appreciably if they have been drinking, and
that serial rapists maintain inaccurately, of course, that their victims
did not resist and in fact wanted to be raped.
She says, the discussion of alcohol is quote endemic of
how we blame women, saying that such blame could lead
to a viewpoint like women hook up, get drunk and
then say they don't want sex, tell them to cross

(01:35:45):
their legs and put on a chastity belt. She says, So,
you know, I think that's really interesting that it's like, well,
we were all.

Speaker 4 (01:35:52):
Drinking and it's like okay, but.

Speaker 1 (01:35:56):
Like, I don't know, if you're drunk enough and you
can say no, then guy should be able to be
even if he's drunk, to be like oh okay, I
should stop. I don't know, like it's where we kind
of put a lot of that on women.

Speaker 2 (01:36:07):
Well, we use alcohol to excuse men's behavior, and we
use it to like indict women for theirs.

Speaker 1 (01:36:13):
Yes, and exactly exactly, and we encour men are encouraged
to give women alcohol to make them more ap pliable,
to make them do things that they want.

Speaker 2 (01:36:23):
You know, and then blame you for it. Then it's like, ah,
we gotta buy women drinks. Yeah, it's like you're trying
to make them fuck you. Like why are you acting
like it's you know, they talk about girls girls?

Speaker 1 (01:36:33):
Yeah, Like remember remember how prevalent ladies drink free used
to be. I mean, I don't really think that's a
thing that much anymore, but it used to be like
girl ladies drink free and like that. Like in this article,
there's a profess, there's a a professional person who.

Speaker 4 (01:36:46):
Says, like, I feel like that's a date rape drug.

Speaker 1 (01:36:48):
Even saying ladies drink free, it's like you're just setting
up this culture of like, well then and then her
consent is gone and we can't really no one can
be blamed for anything again.

Speaker 2 (01:36:59):
It's all the responsibility is still on the woman to
make sure the men don't attack. And it's like, what
just punish all the men more like, you know what
I mean, it hasn't worked right, Like, I just don't
understand why it's still on us. I cover your drinks
and do this and don't do that, and pay attention
and it's never like make sure your friends aren't rapists?

Speaker 4 (01:37:18):
Wow, make sure that.

Speaker 1 (01:37:19):
Yeah, make sure that when you're having sexual interaction with
a woman, she's having fun. Yeah, she's not passing in
and out her eyes like totally, she's not asleep, you know, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:37:32):
And that's annoying to them. That's feminism gone too far,
the pendulum. What do you mean women should have fun
during fuck you know or want it. It's like it
just seems like such a basic kind of knowledge. But whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:37:44):
Yeah, So anyway, I'm even though this article came out
after the episode, I do think this is like part
it's informative of the entire cultural of what's happening, especially
on college campuses at this time.

Speaker 4 (01:37:56):
And like, as we all know very well.

Speaker 1 (01:37:58):
That's been true for decades that rape is one of
the crimes least likely to be falsely reported and most
likely to convict perpetrators. So it's not it's like there
are not women are not waking up going Oh, I
really wish i'd eno have sex with that guy. Maybe
I'll start a multi year court process that's going to
drag me and my family and ruin my entire life

(01:38:18):
through court proceedings. Like that's not really something women are
doing for kicks, Okay, So anyway, because we all know
how hard these crimes are. For this reason, a lot
of college students do choose to have their cases adjudicated
within the confines of their school. I think what so
many girls just want to have happen is like, kick

(01:38:39):
him out, just let me keep going to school and
I don't have to face this guy every day. And
so many of these schools won't even fucking do that,
Like they're just like, I mean, okay, so I'll keep
going with the client in lack case like. It also
highlights these the way educational institutions adjudicate cases internally, even
when criminality is involved, the way that we're talking about here,

(01:39:00):
Like it was my understanding at my school when I
was on this like board to do this, which I
can't evenber what it was called, but it was because
I was on student government and then I was nominated
to this board.

Speaker 4 (01:39:09):
It was for non criminal stuff. Pretty much.

Speaker 1 (01:39:12):
And so anything criminal would go to campus safety and
they would go to the Hartford Police department. Because I
went to college in Hertford, Conneticut, I don't know. I
don't think that happened a lot, you know. I think
people would just say, oh, I don't want to press chargers,
I don't want to go to campus safety. But these
inner school things are very common. After the case was
heard by the UDC at Brown, they found Lack guilty

(01:39:33):
of sexual misconduct and he was given a one semester suspension,
much like what you heard the swimmer talk about how
he the guy just got one semester. But then Lack
appealed to this decision and Brown provosts James Pomerantz reduced
the charge against him to quote flagrant disrespect.

Speaker 4 (01:39:51):
So that's the charge.

Speaker 1 (01:39:52):
He was charged with flagrant disrespect, and instead of the suspension,
his punishment was lessened to a two semester probation. So
obviously the campus is deeply divided at this time, like
one side believes this guy's a rapist and the other
thinks that he is a victim of campus feminism run amok,
you know, like this is too far, you know, And

(01:40:13):
in January of nineteen ninety seven, Uh, twenty twenties, John
Stossel came to Brown to report.

Speaker 2 (01:40:20):
Famous sash that was a big mustache of my life, I.

Speaker 1 (01:40:23):
Would say, as John John Stossel, Yeah, but you're not
gonna like this mustache much anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:40:30):
You're not like what he does. Rape that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:40:33):
He's just like he basically comes to the school and
he's like, look, I just want to know for me,
rape is rape, like and like, to me, rape is
a man forcing a woman, like with a gun or
a knife, and like he sees no, you know, quote
unquote gray area in any of that like that, there's
ways that you can have a power imbalance with someone.

(01:40:54):
There's ways that you can just be a physically So
to him, it's only rape if there's a gun or
a weapon or something and they feel physically threatened. And
and he literally showed up at this place and there
was a protest going on, Like they knew twenty twenty
was coming, so they obviously there was a group at
the There was a group there and I think the

(01:41:16):
it was like Citizens Against Sexual Abuse or something like that.
But CISA is like the name of this group on campus,
and they stage a protest. They're like, we want to
let twenty twenty know that we're serious about women's you know,
women being protected on this campus. And he goes up
to the protesters and he's like, okay, so let's talk
about this. I feel like we have a different definition

(01:41:36):
of rape, Like.

Speaker 4 (01:41:36):
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (01:41:37):
And they like start and he's like, I think it's
gun point, knife point and they're like, bitch, how old
are you? And then in March of nineteen ninety seven,
his piece airs and it's very biased against women against feminism.
The crux of this piece was that feminists at the
school were quote authoritarian and unwilling to accept critiques of
their women as victims mentality end quote. This was from

(01:42:01):
the Brown Daily Herald, which is the student newspaper where
I got most of this information. I think much like this,
much like the criminal proceedings of this, It was all
handled in school. The press even is mostly from a
school newspaper. But the school newspaper seems very like not biased,
and actually they seem more biased towards the victim in this,

(01:42:23):
which is kind of refreshing because now we've got the
guy on twenty twenty being like these feminists are popping off.
And the piece was called when Yes Means No, and
it included footage of angry students, including Sarah Kline the
victim screaming. So he obviously tried to just, you know,
depict these women as like hysterical man hating feminists that

(01:42:47):
are just trying to stretch the definition of rape beyond recognition.
And he says in his piece, there is something of
an authoritarian atmosphere surrounding women's issues on this campus. And
I just love that this guy is so threatened by
women standing up for anything that he's like pretty authoritarian.
No one else is allowed to get a word in Edgeway.

(01:43:08):
It's like you should kind of understand or authoritarianism if
you're a reporter for twenty twenty.

Speaker 4 (01:43:13):
I don't think this is well, it's an example like that.

Speaker 2 (01:43:15):
This happens often where dudes will be like quit being
a victim, and it's like mostly women like talking about
maybe human trafficking, sexual assault, domestic violence, but men complain
about such minor things Like I remember being on a
podcast I was this was a long time ago.

Speaker 4 (01:43:30):
I was on Nick to.

Speaker 2 (01:43:30):
Depolo's and like we were arguing and he was someone
called and was like, God, this girl just keeps on bitching.
And I was truly talking about black people being murdered
by the cops, and he was complaining about how it's
like the decline of it's like making fun of masculinity
because all the husbands on television aren't masculine, and that
was his big argument throughout it all, and I go,

(01:43:50):
that's your biggest complaint, Like that's the thing. I feel
like men complain about so much less, where it's like, well,
what do you mean?

Speaker 4 (01:43:55):
And it's like it's not even violence against you.

Speaker 2 (01:43:58):
It's like you know what I mean, Like you're acting
like women are acting like victims as they're murdered all
the time and like violence, and it's like, what are
you really complaining about? John Stossel, Yeah, what is what
is this big authoritative thing that's impeding on your right
and harming your safety? Like they they victimized themselves for
so much less. I guess that's the I finally got

(01:44:19):
to my point.

Speaker 1 (01:44:20):
Yeah, well no, I mean they're just scared that they're
gonna be now held accountable for their actions, you know,
like it's like uh oh, or now we're now we're
expanding the definition. It's not just knife at knife point
or gunpoint. Where will it end? So opinions in this
case are swinging wildly from this guy's being lynched by

(01:44:42):
a feminist mob to these like we're simply trying to
make this campus safer for women, and I think all
campuses could be safer for women. It's like, I just
saw this video today and I saw you liked it,
so I think you've seen it too, unless you had
a thumb.

Speaker 2 (01:44:57):
I've been really I think on my phone too much
because people have been saying me screenshots, being like you've
already liked it, and I got yeah, I like it.

Speaker 1 (01:45:04):
Well, like my Instagram knows that we are connected and
gives me a lot of stuff that you you know,
I was I had a tailor swept in my homepage
for a really long time and I don't follow her or.

Speaker 2 (01:45:15):
You know, but he's just been hitt and she was
finally seen on Mother's Dan Philly.

Speaker 4 (01:45:19):
But it's like cheez, we went a long time without anything.

Speaker 1 (01:45:22):
Yeah, I heard, But it was this guy who's like
a therapist talking about how like women are like starving
for men to be more vulnerable and caring. Do you
know what I'm talking about this guy who kind of
looks like a rolling stone and he's like yeah, he's
like he's just like, we're beating the vulnerability out of

(01:45:42):
these men in an attempt to make them masculine, when
that's the vulnerability is truly like what most women want
out of them. And it was like it was an
interesting just put that plainly, like I you know, I
hadn't really heard that, And I feel like a lot
of the time it's like.

Speaker 2 (01:45:58):
Well, because they listen to one of the men want
and they're trying to impress other men. And I think
that's where all this confusion of masculinity and what women
want comes from, because they won't even like bect women
enough to listen to what they want. But I think
there's women who want like an outdated version of masculinity too.
But it is just like stop trying to impress your bros.
And just like cry with your girlfriend you fucking weirdo?

(01:46:20):
Yeah or not?

Speaker 1 (01:46:22):
I don't know, And like, yeah, I just think we
could also do more education, like with college freshmen about
this stuff. Like there's always a really awkward like we
called it a rape play in my school because it
was like this really awkward group of like actors that
came on to like do scenes about what it's and
you're like, this isn't like what is this? You know?
It's like there should be better ways to like educate

(01:46:46):
young people about like this is what it's supposed to
look like, this is what the interaction's supposed to be like,
but like enthusiastic and set like what we're talking about,
you know, because if people's parents aren't telling them, then
it's up to like institutions, and if you want to
lower your fucking stats, then let's do it this way
instead of with you know, obfuscating different crimes and giving

(01:47:07):
people suspensions and YadA YadA, like, let's actually we just
educate them and make it safer over backwards to protect
these dudes from punishment instead of protecting the women, you know,
their safety. Like I just don't get why the safety
of women is not the priority or of people.

Speaker 4 (01:47:25):
Yeah, it's never that and not.

Speaker 2 (01:47:28):
Getting people in trouble, you know, because someone wants to
work on Wall Street, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:47:33):
Yeah, so crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:47:34):
So then I'm getting all my information from college newspapers.
My next one is from Penn University of Pennsylvania's newspaper,
famously School I wanted to go to didn't get into.
They reported in nineteen ninety seven that Lack, the guy
in this case, filed a complaint in US District Court
charging Brown with charging the school, Brown with breach of contract, negligence,
and gender discrimination, and he also charged the alleged victim,

(01:47:56):
Sarah Kline, with libel. The complaint also accused of violating
Title nine of the High Federal Higher Education Act by
selectively enforcing its sexual misconduct and underage drinking policies. Like
his lawyer was like, well, Klein admitted to drinking excessively
the night of the incident, and that's a violation of
your underage drinking policy.

Speaker 4 (01:48:15):
So why is there no action taken against her? And
it's like, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:48:18):
Anyway, in two thousand and seven, a confidential settlement was
reached in the U. S District Court, filed by Adam
Lack of from against Sarah Kline and Brown for libel
Cline and reverse gender discrimination, breach of contract for Brown,
and then so that's it. He settled with the US
District Court in a very sketchy turn of events. The

(01:48:38):
following year, July of two thousand and eight. Lack, who's
thirty three years old at the time, now is at
his home in his home state of Iowa, where his
family has been engaged in a long time dispute with
Mitchell County landowners over water runoff, which the Lack family
claimed was an environmental hazard and bad for their farm.
So he sees this Chevy Impala on his property, go

(01:49:00):
to chase it. In chasing it, the Impala does something.
He goes over the edge of the of the of
a curve. His truck is upside down, he's pinned, but
emergency services is called. They don't call for a long time,
come for a long time, and he's found dead several
hours later, and his family thinks it's a homicide. And
there's a lot about it in this old Iowa cold

(01:49:21):
case report that I linked to in my show notes,
but I didn't want to get too into it. But
it's very sketchy. So the guy from that whole thing
is dead. But whoa kind of wild right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, twisted,
very cinematic.

Speaker 4 (01:49:38):
Yeah, anyway, a wild one. Thank you for doing that, Kara.
Let's hop into our interview.

Speaker 1 (01:49:54):
Our guest today has worked on the big screen, the
small screen, and the Broadway stage. You may know her
best for her Emmy Award winning role as young Judy
Garland in Life with Judy Garland, Me and My Shadows.
She also starred in the films The Invitation and Into
the Woods. But you know her today as the victim
of so many crimes and wrongdoings. College student Kelly Delia.

(01:50:15):
Please enjoy our wonderful chat with Tammy Blanchard.

Speaker 4 (01:50:19):
What a hello.

Speaker 1 (01:50:22):
We are thrill gosh, so nice to see you. I
love your blonde hair. I know I wasn't expecting the blonde.

Speaker 7 (01:50:31):
I'm digging it. I just did a role.

Speaker 6 (01:50:33):
I've just did a role and she was blonde, so
I went blonde, destroyed my hair.

Speaker 7 (01:50:37):
But it's sah.

Speaker 4 (01:50:38):
Yeah, I mean, are you having more fun?

Speaker 3 (01:50:41):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (01:50:41):
As I said, actually, wake up and I feel sunshine
and I feel like sunshine.

Speaker 7 (01:50:48):
It's surrounding me. It's fucking we are.

Speaker 4 (01:50:50):
We left, of course, don't wait.

Speaker 7 (01:50:52):
You girls are like lawn order.

Speaker 1 (01:50:55):
And specific specifically Okay, wait now that was special victimsy
in it.

Speaker 7 (01:51:04):
Okay, I mean them ver Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:51:07):
I know it's asking a lot, you know, to give
us all the scoop you can from twenty five years ago,
but yeah, we.

Speaker 7 (01:51:13):
Want to think about that murder.

Speaker 1 (01:51:15):
No, it's it's so hard for us to usually get
guests for the earlier season episodes. So I was so
happy that you were down to do it because it's
like it is, it was twenty four years ago, almost
twenty five that you did this episode, but you're the
main victim. This is the one where you're on the
college campus and you've been drugged and attacked.

Speaker 6 (01:51:37):
And you know, I just had like a moment, like
a moment of God forbid, because I have a seventeen
year old daughter. No, my gosh, and I'm like, you're
not going anywhere. So she doesn't drink, she doesn't do drugs,
she doesn't do anything.

Speaker 3 (01:51:51):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:51:51):
I love her, she loves herself. Basically, that's what mothers
have to do to have kids that don't do drugs
and drink, love them and teach them to love themselves.
It's scary you have to teach your kids. Like I'm
throwing like dateline episodes on.

Speaker 4 (01:52:05):
Yeah you know what I mean, Like you should watch
with her.

Speaker 7 (01:52:09):
She's alough, she watches all that stuff.

Speaker 8 (01:52:12):
Like I personally can't watch it because I know these
people are making millions of dollars and I'm not. And
also it's like like I could never get the lawyer
cup doctor role, and I'm like, I don't know, the
words just don't come out of my mouth easily, but.

Speaker 6 (01:52:28):
Like, yeah, Parked cardiovascular or we're gonna go get those
facial wreck opera drop.

Speaker 7 (01:52:35):
So I'm usually like the guest star, but I went
out for nine one one.

Speaker 4 (01:52:41):
No, what was that?

Speaker 7 (01:52:42):
Uh the Boston No? No, No, it's that guy still
Who's the guy who runs these.

Speaker 2 (01:52:49):
Whoa He's I think he has twelve shows on air
right now.

Speaker 4 (01:52:53):
He's still Kick.

Speaker 6 (01:52:54):
And I remember I think it was that one because
I said all the Warren woes.

Speaker 4 (01:52:58):
Yeah, I saw you've done.

Speaker 7 (01:53:01):
Now this is this a Mariska.

Speaker 2 (01:53:03):
Yeah, Maricia Maloney and Belser.

Speaker 7 (01:53:07):
I remember two things.

Speaker 6 (01:53:10):
I remember Mariska and what's his name Maloney?

Speaker 4 (01:53:13):
Yeah, Chris.

Speaker 7 (01:53:15):
I remember doing a scene with him, and I'm like great,
like I'm new, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:53:20):
I think it's like my first really gig outside and
Dying Light after Judy Garland. And I remember Mariska and
Chris talking to me and I said something back, and
then Mariska said something to me that just like sliced me,
like I'm just like sarcastic cool, you know what I mean.
She just said something like really something like that, and

(01:53:44):
it just made me feel so stupid, and then they
both smiled and laughed and like it was like I
was so insecure, you know, And I just remember looking
at her like, Damn, she's like so fucking cool and
tough and like she's an act and like.

Speaker 4 (01:54:01):
Because is she?

Speaker 6 (01:54:02):
Because she's just so fucking cool and confident, you know
what I mean, and beautiful. And then Chris was like
just like really seemed so like normal, like not like big,
like seemed like an ordinary guy.

Speaker 4 (01:54:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:54:15):
And then I remember like learning my lines in my
basement apartment and like it was an emotional testimony, right.

Speaker 4 (01:54:23):
Yeah episode.

Speaker 2 (01:54:26):
I mean, you were in the hospital, you were laying
in the bushes, you were laying in the hospital, you
were on the stand for the grand jury, you were
getting betrayed all over town.

Speaker 7 (01:54:36):
Wow, I need to watch this shiny.

Speaker 2 (01:54:38):
Very good and Michelle Monahan's in it, which was like
a while I forgot about that.

Speaker 7 (01:54:43):
So they're still making new ones of these.

Speaker 2 (01:54:47):
Oh yeah, baby, there is twenty six. You got to
get back in you got to come back as a lawyer.

Speaker 7 (01:54:53):
Okay, I'm sure you got as a lawyer.

Speaker 4 (01:54:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:54:59):
Well, I be fun because you know, in this episode,
you really come off like like very sort of uptight,
like you struck me more as like a New England girl,
like you know you you don't really hear your accent,
and I think it'd be really fun for you to
come on and go like full blown Jersey madam. Yeah,
like you're like running, you're running a criminal enterprise and

(01:55:19):
you're like, what the hell do you cops want?

Speaker 4 (01:55:21):
You know, like I love some of that. Yeah, you're right?

Speaker 1 (01:55:24):
Are you guys in touch with We've got We've got
someone who listens listen.

Speaker 7 (01:55:29):
I need a series fucking regular.

Speaker 8 (01:55:32):
I need a I have a seventeen year old, so
I'm trained and ready.

Speaker 2 (01:55:39):
You would be great John Ice Crys and also just
fired or let go of two detectives.

Speaker 4 (01:55:44):
They are in the need for.

Speaker 6 (01:55:47):
I need you need yes, I need you girls to
say we just talk to Tammy Flinch.

Speaker 7 (01:55:53):
We love her and we were back regular. We're your fans,
not a guest.

Speaker 6 (01:56:00):
Our girls go go ten percent.

Speaker 2 (01:56:04):
Yeah we got seven episode yea, it's an episode are Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:56:09):
I still can't get I can't even get a serious
regular you well.

Speaker 2 (01:56:14):
Because I'm thinking, how we get you to be a
madam but be long term. Maybe you're a lawyer who
really is a madam behind the scenes, and it's like, uh.

Speaker 7 (01:56:22):
Oh no, the seven that'd be great, nice.

Speaker 1 (01:56:25):
Little yeah, and you can commute from home and your
mother a mother. Yeah, well you have a fun IMDb
cannot we like say the names of projects and then
you'll say a story like a thing if you'd like
or what Carara, Well, I was just gonna say, like, so,
first of all, it's very impressive anybody I think that

(01:56:47):
makes the jump from the soaps to the main stuff
because it doesn't happen for everybody.

Speaker 4 (01:56:50):
A lot of people just do soaps forever.

Speaker 1 (01:56:52):
So you did Guiding Light for like fifty episodes, and
then this is like your first Did you do this
Law and Order first? Or did did you do this
Life with Judy Garland which you won an Emmy four exciting?

Speaker 7 (01:57:03):
Yeah, I went right from Guiding Light.

Speaker 6 (01:57:06):
Literally at Dining Light they called me and said that
I got Judy Garland. So I went right into Judy Garland,
and you know, I grew up. My first solo was
somewhere over the rainbow. I was so scared.

Speaker 7 (01:57:17):
I have a father that.

Speaker 6 (01:57:19):
Was a Vietnam Vet alcoholic and a mother that was
about thirteen children born in Jersey City, dirt poor. So
these were like really low, low lives growing up for them,
and you know, struggling people I was born from. Came
to the household, and my older.

Speaker 7 (01:57:38):
Brother was a step brother.

Speaker 6 (01:57:39):
He always beat up my younger brother, and nobody talked
to me except for my father when he came home
with ten minutes they up to work, and so my
mother hated me because my father was so nice to me.

Speaker 7 (01:57:50):
So it was just.

Speaker 6 (01:57:51):
An isolated, sad, quiet existence and then anger and violence
and everything around me.

Speaker 7 (01:58:00):
And then when I go in my bed at night.

Speaker 6 (01:58:02):
I had this strong like faith growing up because I
had an experienced when I was like three or four,
and I would pray and I would just pray. And
then when I was about eight or ten, I.

Speaker 4 (01:58:16):
Think it was like eight old.

Speaker 6 (01:58:18):
Ever, the principal came in and they were auditioning somewhere
in the rainbow solo in the chorus, and the principal
pointed to me and said, let her audition, and I
stood up and sang when all the world is a
homeless jumbo that the rain drops tumbo all around and
then olten some magically, and that's the beginning before somewhere

(01:58:40):
in the rainbow. That's what didn't get into the movie.
And she said I could sing it. So when I
got up and sang this thing, my mom did my
hair like Judy Garland. It ended up in the Jersey Journal.

Speaker 4 (01:58:52):
My parents and.

Speaker 7 (01:58:53):
Everyone came to this.

Speaker 4 (01:58:54):
I got stuff about it.

Speaker 6 (01:58:55):
Everyone looked at me. They started looking at me, like
my mom and everything. So I realized that this is
something that will make me be seen and heard and
something that will help Like there was smiles in the family,
like when I got off the stage, like in the paper,
everyone looking at the paper, you know. And so I
got to feel so acting expressing has been something that

(01:59:21):
can help me and my family, and that's why I
wanted to do it and keep doing it. And the
more I did it, then when I got dining, like
you know, I started making three thousand. I put everyone
in the house and I stayed in the basement and
I paid for the whole house, you know, Like, so
it was just something that could help me in my family.

Speaker 1 (01:59:38):
Did you get that a lot when you were growing
up that you look like her. I mean because you
I from the episode you have the dark hair of SVU.

Speaker 4 (01:59:45):
Like, I'm like, she does look like Judy Garland.

Speaker 7 (01:59:48):
I did.

Speaker 6 (01:59:49):
And then the first play we did in the so
that was like maybe sixth grade or whatever.

Speaker 7 (01:59:53):
So the school ended up. I did the first full.

Speaker 6 (01:59:57):
Play I ever did was The Wizard of Oz, and
the school principle became kind of department schools. The music
teacher became like we just started a whole theater system
to where now there's like an award you can get
a thousand dollars scholarship with my name on it. You know,
like there's great things that have happened from it. But
the Judy thing, Wisdom of Oz, like that whole theory

(02:00:20):
of like there's no place like home, you know, and
loving the people you're with, and like I just loved
Judy Garland all my life, and she was like a
sense of support that I could I could be like her.
And so they did that, and then I was working
on Dining Light and I told my manager, if you

(02:00:41):
ever see there making anything about Judy Garland, you have
to let me know, Like I love this woman and
he came in towards the end of my run there
and he Backstage magazine they posted they were looking for
Judy Garland, so anyone who wants to be an actor
or anything like I literally got that role from reading
Backstage magazine and going on an open call, and it

(02:01:05):
can happen to anyone. So they had auditioned me and
Neil and Craig, the producers who are now big time.
They were like, did you study her your whole life?
And I was just like, I just love her.

Speaker 7 (02:01:17):
I just love her. I just have a player. Just
let me play her. I love her. And I walked
out and they ended up hiring.

Speaker 6 (02:01:23):
Someone else, and I went in the shower and I
cried and I like fell to the floor and I
was praying to God, if you don't give me this,
my whole existence with you isn't real.

Speaker 4 (02:01:35):
It mustn't be.

Speaker 6 (02:01:36):
And they called the next day and said she wanted
to Steven Spielberg's read something on TV and so they're
giving the part to me. So it's just been like
a process between me and Judy.

Speaker 2 (02:01:48):
Wait, let's because we know we have to go. So yeah, well,
just you could do like quick things. First thing, that
comes to your mind. We love the movie The Invitation.
How was that?

Speaker 6 (02:01:59):
Oh great? That was Yeah, that's how one scared. It
was a great experience and he film. I worked with
Mike go Goal and I forgot their names. But when
I got there, it was all people that I had
already worked with, and we were in a house like
all together.

Speaker 4 (02:02:16):
It was. It was creepy, but it.

Speaker 7 (02:02:18):
Was it was good. It's good character. Sama is a genius.

Speaker 6 (02:02:22):
She's the one that made Michelle Rodriguez, who's from Jersey
City next to me the city over famous.

Speaker 7 (02:02:28):
So she had just offered me.

Speaker 6 (02:02:30):
And when someone offers you something, you just feel so
good about yourself and be.

Speaker 4 (02:02:34):
Like, no, you can do your best. The good Shepherd
Robert's in the ero.

Speaker 7 (02:02:39):
Yeah, I was still with uh.

Speaker 6 (02:02:44):
I was still with her father, and I was playing
Laura like very victimy.

Speaker 7 (02:02:49):
Like oh you know, I'm shucked. Oh yeah, are you good?

Speaker 6 (02:02:53):
And he was like at the end of the shoot,
he was like, Damny, come here, he whiskers in your ear.
You know, do you play the victim in your life?
And it was like a realization moment for me. I
was like, oh my god, I do like I do
play the weak person all the time, and he was
like never played the victim. And I think from then
on that like changed how I took on every role,

(02:03:16):
like just in a more strength based kind of fashion.
Even though you're in pain and struggling, still have some
kind of strength. And I think that like your strength
and life, sometimes it's just your honesty and like it's
any kind of pulling back from that honesty is like
a sense of fear or like vulnerability that you don't
need to have, like even if your honesty is.

Speaker 7 (02:03:38):
Shit, show like let it be known, you know.

Speaker 6 (02:03:41):
What I mean.

Speaker 1 (02:03:41):
I can't believe Robert de Niro like so kind of
that's so cool and like bold and nah.

Speaker 6 (02:03:50):
It was Yanni's whispery and I had actually had a
moment because I'm I'm this.

Speaker 7 (02:03:56):
Kind of person.

Speaker 6 (02:03:57):
I think why he gave me any kind of advice
was because he was down the street and we were
in the scene where I'm opening the door and there's
an a D behind the door and he's down the
street and AD keeps saying, Okay, open it right, and
the camera's there and I opened it when the AD
and it's not right, it's not right, it's not the
right time three or four times, and I'm like, you're

(02:04:18):
telling me.

Speaker 7 (02:04:19):
To open it, and open it. I look out at
the he goes, wait, he's coming.

Speaker 6 (02:04:22):
So I looked out the window and Robertson Niro's marching
down the middle of the street. You know what I mean,
We're just fucking walked right, And I'm like, oh shit,
but I'm still like my sweet self, you know what
I mean. Inside, he opens the door and he goes,
he goes, you don't know how to open the door

(02:04:43):
when so it's just open the door and the I
don't know. My mother and father and me came out,
and I was like, he fucking told me to open
the door, So I opened it.

Speaker 7 (02:04:52):
When he opens it.

Speaker 6 (02:04:54):
Right after thing, it's just like this sweet person a
long time and he went like this and I was like, yeah,
I don't know what the fuck just happened, but it
was great, Like like.

Speaker 1 (02:05:10):
Got a kick out of somebody standing up for.

Speaker 4 (02:05:12):
Herself a little bit. Didn't want you to play the victim? Yeah, yeah,
that's funny.

Speaker 6 (02:05:16):
Damon, Like he tried to really French kiss made and
I was like, what he from the soap operas, dude,
Like we don't really stick our tongue in each other's mouths, like,
and I pulled away on the beach and I was like,
I have a boyfriend.

Speaker 7 (02:05:31):
I can't say it.

Speaker 4 (02:05:34):
So yeah, I can't believe Matt Damon used tongue. That
is crazy. Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:05:39):
Only on this podcast do we get this, We get
a really good scoop.

Speaker 4 (02:05:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:05:44):
Any stories about working with Brittany Murphy and the ram
and girl, uh said.

Speaker 6 (02:05:51):
It's like someone literally like offered me thirty grand to
tell my stories because I actually worked with her again
on I think her last movie. That's what I say.
Like the Judie Garland story, it's kind of similar. It's
like someone who just didn't learn to love themselves and

(02:06:14):
someone coming and just vulturizing and tearing her apart, and
guys just so sad because Simon was there too, and
it was at the end what he did to her,
and that's.

Speaker 7 (02:06:31):
Just I just fucking feel so veted.

Speaker 6 (02:06:35):
She said this to me because it was really bad
and I had just had my daughter six months old,
and she wanted me to come there and play her
best friend and part and I was getting like twenty
grand and she wasn't showing up on time and everything
and they said, if we fire her, she's gotting more
fifty you know, do you want the part if they
can't continue the film because they're losing so much money

(02:06:57):
with her, you know, being late and stuff. Well, I
take it. She's getting one hundred and fifty thousand dollars,
they'll give it to me. I had a six month
old child, you know, I know money because I through
the birthday didn't work and my guy didn't work. And
I told her the next day before we were shooting scene,

(02:07:18):
I told her, I said, Brittany, they're gonna fire you
if you don't start coming in on time. And I'm
telling you, I'm gonna take the job, like I need
the money, you know. And she turned her around to me.

Speaker 7 (02:07:31):
She was in front of me.

Speaker 6 (02:07:32):
She turned around to me, and she whisked her hair back.
She said, Timmy, some people are lucky and make it
in their thirties, like Meryl Street. And I said, Brittany,
just make sure you start coming to work on time.

Speaker 7 (02:07:45):
That's it. Don't matter how you show up, just show
up on time.

Speaker 4 (02:07:49):
And that was it.

Speaker 6 (02:07:51):
And I like, I was offered at a time when
I had like nothing in the bank, like thirty grand
to tell the whole story, and I never will do
it on something lives like this, you know what I mean, personally,
one on one I'll tell people because it's great cautionary
tale for anybody, especially people in business. But I would
never expose her like that because I know she was

(02:08:13):
just a Judy Garland, you know.

Speaker 7 (02:08:15):
And it's a sad.

Speaker 4 (02:08:16):
Story it is.

Speaker 7 (02:08:18):
But I love the girl.

Speaker 2 (02:08:20):
Yeah, I have loved so much for her work, and yes, yeah,
it's just so beloved.

Speaker 1 (02:08:26):
I think that's why people like keep still talk about
her so much.

Speaker 4 (02:08:30):
You know, she was everybody loved her.

Speaker 6 (02:08:33):
It was really like a Judy Garland. But I think
I have to get my kid right. Oh.

Speaker 7 (02:08:39):
I have a Harvey Weinstein story too.

Speaker 1 (02:08:41):
Oh Jesus, you can't leave us hanging. I want to
know about Bernette Peters and Gypsy too.

Speaker 7 (02:08:47):
He's wonderful, wonderful.

Speaker 4 (02:08:49):
I love her.

Speaker 6 (02:08:50):
Barbari Weinstein want to see me. While I was doing Gypsy,
I was with AB's father. I said, you know, he
wants to see me. He might have a movie once
to dinner and father was like, you're not going anyw
unless it's an awful blah blah blah. I don't both
see him after I break up with him. I'm in
La turning to do pilot season and my manager goes
he wants to see you. I'm like, oh, well, okay.
So we go to Beverly Hillson towel. There's two chairs

(02:09:12):
outside of hotel room. A blonde opens the door, walks
me through a pallor there's a breakfast table into a
bedroom and you know the thing in front of the
bed where you sit down on. Sits me there and
I shut the door and I'm sitting there and here
comes to my prayer, you know what I mean. I'm like,
what is going on? Like this is not right? And

(02:09:34):
I start praying and I have this thing where I
feel in trouble. I say, come into my eyes. You know,
Geez comes to my house. So Gesez, come into my eyes.
And I'm looking around that he opens the door in
a white robe with a smile, opens the door.

Speaker 7 (02:09:50):
I turn like this, I.

Speaker 6 (02:09:51):
Look him right in the eyes and his smile goes,
turns around and walks away, shuts the door right. The
blonde opens the door and says he can't see you today.

Speaker 7 (02:10:03):
And I leave.

Speaker 4 (02:10:05):
True story, What the hell?

Speaker 6 (02:10:08):
No idea? And then when they were saying this stuff.
I was like, oh my god, like, wow, I'm just.

Speaker 7 (02:10:15):
Coming, you know what I mean? Like what what?

Speaker 4 (02:10:18):
But how bold? How bad? How bold? How bad? Wow?

Speaker 7 (02:10:23):
How how did that?

Speaker 1 (02:10:26):
So do you think he just saw you and you
looked him right in the eyes and he thought this
one's not this one like she's gonna be.

Speaker 4 (02:10:31):
Too much trouble.

Speaker 6 (02:10:32):
I'm a believer, so there's something you know, for believers
if you believe in I'm in that kind of presence
in you.

Speaker 2 (02:10:40):
So yeah, Tammy, Oh my god, incredible. This was amazing.
Thanks for being so open and honest.

Speaker 4 (02:10:53):
Thrilling. Wow, what a character. Good stories, good stories.

Speaker 1 (02:10:57):
She's got stories. And she's a funny lady. She's just
like give me the work. I like, how funny? Like
I just you know, you think when you see somebody
perform an episode of s view, you know what they're
gonna be like when we interview them, and they can
be so different. And she was so surprisingly different but
so fun to talk to. I enjoyed her a lot. Yeah,

(02:11:18):
and what do you mean you're a blonde? Like that
kind of broke my brain.

Speaker 4 (02:11:22):
Unfortunate. Yes, yes, you guys couldn't see that.

Speaker 1 (02:11:25):
But but Platinum Blonde on the interview with us good Scoop,
Good stories, Yeah, good vibe.

Speaker 4 (02:11:34):
Bad episode, bad episode. I mean only the first season two.
This is only one of.

Speaker 1 (02:11:43):
Fifteen episodes they do about rape on college campuses. I
would say over twenty six seasons.

Speaker 2 (02:11:47):
Yeah, but you know what this made me think of it?
I'm shocked we didn't even mention it in the intro.
But I bet they're going to do an episode next
season about it. But it's like p Diddy in the
and those are those are That's what was getting me
going to on Instagram was the comics. Yeah, the way
the people that are testifying are being treated, the way
people are acting about like why didn't you like just

(02:12:08):
all the classic stuff and how it's just so pervasive
and how will we ever get rid of this? Like
notion like why are people sympathizing with this man? I
was also disgusted that his kids were all there adult
or not, like disgusting.

Speaker 1 (02:12:23):
Yeah, I honestly have to be honest, like I've been
staying away from the ditty stuff.

Speaker 4 (02:12:27):
It's like so dark to me. Yeah, it's really, it's
so so That's what I mean.

Speaker 2 (02:12:31):
There's no consistency where it's like I'm want, I'm I'm
reading about horrific crimes constantly. No not, I have a
lot of problems with it. It's like quite upsetting and
has turned me into a psychotic, paranoid person. But I
live in fear. But yeah, no, the ditty darkness is
really bad. Maybe once he's convicted. Like I'm also really

(02:12:51):
scared because I was talking to comics but they don't know.
I have to do my own research. But it's like
because it's a ric Okay, it's like it's not about
these sex crimes, so it's like character witnesses, I think,
but like it has nothing to do with what's going on.
And I was just hearing conversations about that the prosecution

(02:13:12):
is not playing this well and it's but like usually
New York State's really good about or is this federal
Like they don't bring things up to trial unless it's
so I don't know what's going on, like how because
he could have done those crimes, But I don't know
if they're going to be able to prove the racketeering, conspiracy,
all of that organized crime of it all. So I

(02:13:34):
don't know how many witnesses they have. Why they started
with this if they're trying to inflict, I don't. Everything's
a tactic, you know, and all this is important, but
I'm just scared because of this one convo that like
he's not going to get convicted.

Speaker 4 (02:13:47):
Yeah, and we've seen before.

Speaker 2 (02:13:49):
I feel like he gets cocky and they don't prep enough,
like we've seen that happen in other Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:13:53):
So I think with Casey Anthony is one that comes
to mind.

Speaker 1 (02:13:56):
I've just been seeing all these snippets of Cassie, like
her like quotes from her testimony, and I just feel
so bad for her. And I'm just like, and she
has this like husband who's standing by her now, which
I love, and like he's like I didn't save her,
she saved herself.

Speaker 4 (02:14:11):
Like you know. I it's just like I just.

Speaker 1 (02:14:13):
Haven't been getting into I've been following, but like I'm
not getting into the nitty gritty, Like I haven't watched
the Hulu doc. I think there's like a five part
Hulu doc that people are like, you should watch that
at give and I'm like, I just I'm like for now,
I'm just like arms length without it just feels.

Speaker 2 (02:14:26):
Really really And I guess there was another witness that
was walking in and like people were harassing her on
the way in. It's just like we're truly still in
the Witch Trials, like always, like we've just like our
views on this are so archaic.

Speaker 1 (02:14:42):
Yeah, but it's also like the power of celebrity. It's
like people will just be like, I love this guy.
I've always loved him, I've always loved his music or whatever,
and he couldn't have done this, but.

Speaker 2 (02:14:51):
No, I love It's also like he's he's also people
defending him. It's like people think he fucking killed kim Porter.
They think he fucking kis Bill his best friend? Like
he's been a criminal for decades and who was it?
Oh Wendy Willia was it? Wendy made like Wendy's always
talked about him being a criminal. But there's someone on

(02:15:12):
the carpet with TLC and they make a joke about him,
going like, oh is Rosy O'Donnell making a joke to
them about him serving five to ten or something and
TLC's laughing. This is in the nineties, so it's like
this all of like I don't get people writing from
that hard because his music is all taken from others
and built on the talent of others, right, right, he's also.

Speaker 4 (02:15:33):
Maybe killed his best friend.

Speaker 2 (02:15:36):
All these people, Like I don't get why we're writing
for it, Like what has he done for you?

Speaker 8 (02:15:40):
That is?

Speaker 4 (02:15:41):
That is the thing. That's the thing.

Speaker 1 (02:15:42):
It's like I think it's literally for a lot of people,
it's like the entrepreneurship and the like empire, like they
people respect the power because you're right, the music, isn't
it Like yeah, sure, uh the the every breath you
take cover? Why am I blanking on what it's called?
Like I'm just saying, yeah, in high school, we all
love that. But like, I don't think the music is

(02:16:03):
what people are Like. I think people think of like
the parties, the opulence Sean John, like the alcohol's hypnot,
like you know why there like empires, like the empire
that he built as just kind of like a rich person,
not even like a person with talent per se.

Speaker 4 (02:16:18):
Like someone holding an umbrella for him. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:16:22):
Yeah, And then I saw another car, like I had
a spot and like a guy was like did you
hear his Like, oh, his dick is like a tutsie roll,
And I go, that's what you took from all of that,
Like the size of his tiny dad, It's just like,
you're not horrified.

Speaker 4 (02:16:34):
I was just like annoyed. I guess I'm like.

Speaker 2 (02:16:36):
Annoyed, and I know I'm going to get deep into
this eventually, I just like can't.

Speaker 1 (02:16:41):
Yeah, somebody in one of my mom groups did bring
up not my mom group, somebody in one of my
Bravo groups brought up what you were talking about, which
was I wonder how much Heather Thompson knows Halla. You know,
some people were like, I bet she went to the
early parties and never stayed for the freak offs. And
I'm like, that also probably makes sense, you know, because
I could see her being like gotta go mama, like

(02:17:03):
you know, but uh fuck, yeah, it's crazy and this
I don't know. The post mortem on this episode is
like I want to say, oh, yeah, this episode is
from you know, twenty two thousand, you know what, and
nothing has changed on college campuses, nothing has changed in

(02:17:23):
that way. But we you gotta be a girl's girl.
I mean, these dumb bitches like are you out of
your mind? Like we like that. That's like college is
just crazy crazy.

Speaker 4 (02:17:35):
Yeah, it is crazy.

Speaker 1 (02:17:37):
It's lawless and they have their own law. They try
to make their own law and it's like crazy. But
we can move on to what would Sister Peg do,
our weekly segment where we highlight an article, a book,
a blog post of a doc something to give you
more info about what we talked about in today's episode.
And I wanted to point everybody to the twenty fifteen

(02:17:59):
documentary The Hunting Ground, about the culture of sexual assault
on college campuses in the United States, and I would
be interested to hear from our listeners actually, because we
have a lot of listeners from like the UK and
Australia if this is the same there, Like, is the
culture of sexual assault as rampant there as it is
over here. In particular, this doc focuses on Annie E.

(02:18:20):
Clark and Andrea Pino to former University of North Carolina
Chapel Hill students who filed a title line complaint against
unc in response to their rapes. It is streaming on
Prime and Apple TV, and we will link to that
in our show notes and in a story the day
this episode comes out. And I think this documentary is
really really eye opening for a lot of people, And yeah,

(02:18:44):
follow us on Instagram. That's messed up pod for all
of our What would Sister peg do's and all of
our episode announces and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (02:18:52):
And next week we got a back to back season
premiere double.

Speaker 4 (02:18:58):
I don't know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (02:18:59):
It's a double episode and the Empire strikes Back and
never turn your back on Them.

Speaker 4 (02:19:05):
Thanks War and Light for those smooth titles.

Speaker 2 (02:19:10):
Are they both star Wars and the Empire Strikes Back
is definitely star wars y?

Speaker 4 (02:19:15):
But what it never turned.

Speaker 1 (02:19:17):
Never turn your back on Them? I don't think has anything.
Maybe that's a Star Wars. Is that a Star Wars thing? Casey, No,
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (02:19:23):
But it's season twenty three, episode one and two.

Speaker 1 (02:19:28):
So yeah, so hit up the first you got extra homework.
Thank you guys so much for listening. As usual, We
love you guys. We'll see you next week.

Speaker 2 (02:19:47):
That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (02:19:49):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Pop or
wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (02:20:02):
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up pod
and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.

Speaker 1 (02:20:09):
As always, please see our show notes for sources and
more information.

Speaker 2 (02:20:13):
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain.

Speaker 1 (02:20:19):
And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song
and Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and
everybody at Exactly Right Media.

Speaker 4 (02:20:35):
Dun Dun

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Kara Klenk

Liza Treyger

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