Pandora w/ William McNamara

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Done, Yay, that's messed up.

Speaker 4 (00:29):
An SVU podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
My name is Lisa Traeger and I'm Kara Klank and
every week we hit you with a recap of a
Law and Order SVU episode.

Speaker 4 (00:38):
The True Crime.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
It's based on an interview with an actor from the
show So Much And.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
I guess me chewing. I guess that's become a thing.
I've been eating. I've gotten too comfortable. I've had some bagels.
I thought it'd be edited out. It will never happen again.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Hopefully nobody has completely quit based off of one chewing incident.

Speaker 4 (01:01):
But I fail between my legs.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, oh my gosh, it's today, this day, this episode's
coming out.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
It's May twentieth. Where's the fucking time going in?

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Really?

Speaker 4 (01:16):
Union Hall tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
If you're listening to this in New York, I'm doing
show Intel tonight.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
So that's kind of fun. Go watch Union Hall, one
of the greatest venues.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Fun show really, and you know, I have so much
nostalgia because I remember moving to New York and like
when I got a spot at the Union Hall on
any show that was like the biggest deal. I better
kill it, Like it was just so kind of I mean,
I still really respect it. But now I'm just emailing
getting my days. It just feels so cool walking on in,

(01:45):
not taking not now that I don't take it seriously,
but I feel so comfortable.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Now you're in there. Now you're on their roster. You're
a rotating show there. But uh yeah, that's that's fun.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
We just had Mother's Day. Yeah, yeah, so tell me
yeah Mother's Day.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
No, it was fun.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
I the day before Mother's Day, I took five children
to a birthday party, two of my own and three additional.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Well this was like, this is a huge moment because
as this podcast was starting or our tour, like back
in the day, your friend took a bunch of kids
to the Shad Aquarium and you were like, how is
she doing it?

Speaker 4 (02:23):
Oh my god, And now now it's you.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
My friend took her four children and my rosie to
the Shad Aquarium, and now I'm doing it. I still
think her thing is a bigger feat because she had
a tiny baby.

Speaker 4 (02:36):
I had like a bunch of kids my kid's age.
I just said.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
So, it was like this big music festival in La
called Just Like Heaven that has like Rylo Kylie and
Vampire Weekend.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
It's like very millennial focus.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Well, I saw a lot of memes of like how
tired millennials are after one night at music.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
Yeah, they're like e for ryle o' kylie, I'm dying. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
So I was basically watching two of my friend's kids
that were going and was like, oh, you're going, I'll
take them to the birthday party. So I took her
to this birthday party. It's a hundred fucking degrees out.
The minute we get there. One kid just keeps going,
Can we leave? Can we leave? The other kid keeps
slipping through my fingers. I can't find him the whole time.
My husband's with me. By the way, it's not me alone.
Another reason why my friend is more powerful than me.

(03:21):
She did it by herself. And uh, it's Pokemon themed.
There's so much Pokemon card training going on. Kids are
losing Pokemon cards that are extremely important to them, Like.

Speaker 4 (03:30):
Hops, does anybody see my rainbow peek?

Speaker 2 (03:32):
A chew.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Like everyone's freaking out. I'm like, it's so hot, we're melting.
But it was fine. So then I return one child
to his home. I bring the other two home for
a sleepover. They're sleeping at my house. They've never done
a sleepover. They are sleeping over, and this is this
is these kids first sleepover. Yes, these kids have never
slept over. Wow, their brothers their brothers, so they have

(03:54):
each other whatever, but like and they know me, but
like you know there, so it's their first stepover. But
it goes great. And so I woke up on Mother's
Day with four children in my house. So then their
mom picks them up. We went to Delia as a
place you and I like for a little. I think
is an understatement. I would say love.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
I would say still the best breakfast burrito I've ever had.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, I love it, and I hash Browns are like
perfectly crunchy. I think that's what I miss and like
it is.

Speaker 4 (04:23):
I got to get a hash brown. No, it's in them,
it's in the potato.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
But I don't do the burrito. I love the I
forgot you're an enchilada girl. I only have gotten the
breakfast burritos. There I get the enchiladas in a Beigos
and Pasadena.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Oh right, yeah, but the but but I have had
those burritos and the hash brown inside is a fucking
game changer.

Speaker 4 (04:41):
I love it so much.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
But I just like going it's a cash only casual place.
I don't want to go to some fancy ass brunch
where my kids are going to be annoying.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
It's not like in a deeper way, it's also part
of the old world of this like gentrified neighborhood, you know.
So it's also like it's just as like charm from
a different era and it's just so good, Like, yeah,
you can't get it on Postma.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
It's like get your ass over there.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, you gotta go get it, get your cash out.

Speaker 4 (05:11):
So true.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
And it's cash, which almost any other place it's cash,
like what is this a drug front? But this place,
I'm like, you know, they just do cash. They're from
another time. But yeah, like it was great because I
like last year, I think we did Highland Cafe for
my birthday, Like I just want to go somewhere where
it's like no reservation, just give me a number, bring
me my food, whatever. And then I got my afternoon off,

(05:33):
I went to this nice pool at the at this
hotel which you gotta name names. Oh, I went to
the pool at the Langham I thought in Pasadena, which
they have doubled. They have a second pool now they
have a new saltwater pool. So and it's kind of
fun to be at the pool. I'm just gonna say,
it's kind of fun to be at the pool with
a friend and see the moms there with their kids

(05:53):
and be like, I'm glad that's not me. I'm happy
that that's how people decide to do their day and
that they want their kid in a floaty flashing them
in the pool. And I'm just so happy it's not me.
For me, that's for me on Mother's Day. Yeah, and
then I went to.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
Go see.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
A comic we are both friends with do an outdoor.
Our friends are opened. I just saw everything on Instagram.
But I'm like so curious about the gown, the window,
the law, Like.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
I am so curious about it all. I mean, I'm
sure you could shout out who it is. She probably
wants people.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
Oh yeah, she's already posted about it. This is Megan Gaily.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Megan Gaily is like eight months pregnant and is filmed
a special in her at her house, which I was
kind of like, you know, I just was like, what's
that going to look like?

Speaker 4 (06:43):
And then it just really did look beautiful.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Like she has like a cool view from her house,
although like she makes fun of it in the special,
she's like, yeah, you can see a Domino's a very
active train track, Like you know, it's not like we're
looking at the Hollywood sign, but you are looking at
like beautiful mountains in California behind her, and it's it
was as the sun was. And she has a three
year old and he was up in the window watching it,

(07:06):
you know, I mean he can't really hear much, but
like so she's at a certain times she references him
and is like waving to him and stuff, and that
was cute.

Speaker 4 (07:14):
But there were like fun girls there that I.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Liked seeing, and had another glass of wine and someone
was driving me, which I always love, like, so it
was it was great and then.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
I love's the Keto good evenings. Someone was driving me.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
I was glad that well because I would have stopped drinking,
you know, like because I had a couple drinks at
the pool. But I was okay, and then I was like, well,
if I go to this thing, I can't really drink anymore.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
And someone drove me that she taped it her on
Mother's Day. Okay, cool, cool, yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Okay, yeah, yeah yeah and yeah, and I actually don't
know the details of the dress, but I thought it
looked great, and uh yeah, it was fun we were
and then yeah it was I didn't know that our
friend Clark was opening and then he was calling me
out in the he was calling me out and the

(08:04):
in his opening the Megan was calling me out for
having botox in my butt, which I think I've.

Speaker 4 (08:09):
Talked about on this podcast.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Well, it's so funny because I just did another episode
of Steph's podcasts and she brought up these like butt cuts,
like I should know and would know, and I was
like what and then she goes, well, I just assumed,
Cara what She goes, I guess it's crazy for me
to assume. But the Carroa would have told you about
the butt cut. And then I was like, no, I
actually do now, rem I've.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Told you, Yeah you did. I'm sure you buried it
deep down inside because it's not something you want to
think about exactly.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Okay, like I remembered again, but she was very much
like of course, you know, and I'm like, this.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Isn't something that I feel so bad for her because
she's having a really hard time. And it's like I
know what I was getting myself into, you know, like
I got pregnant and had a baby.

Speaker 4 (08:52):
That's like kind of where this came from.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
She just like can't get it to go away, and
like I'm and I are texting about it all the.

Speaker 5 (08:58):
Time, poor thing.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
So you probably see that I am rubbing my head.
So okay, I will say, in LA, they know how
to get me. They make Uber blacks only like three
dollars more expensive, and I'm gonna get it for three dollars.
I'll sit in an escalade like you got me, you
know what I mean? Because in New York, the Uber
Blacks are like at least half more like twifty percent
more like it is a luxury. I would say that

(09:26):
I don't care about. But in LA, and there's more
professional drivers in New York. I also feel like if
you get an Uber X, you might get a Toyota
Corolla with just crumbs, Like you don't know what you're
gonna get as much. But Anyways, So I was used
to getting into these big stubs and then I got
I did get another Uber Black, but it was a
smaller Lexus. But I've been getting into these fucking suburbans

(09:46):
and I love the attitude, and so I with all
my might am hopping in it's a way smaller car.
I bang my head with such force on them the
car door rim that. I mean, I truly I needed
a few more, like a real full force bang.

Speaker 4 (10:04):
On the door, on the metal on the car.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Oh, I think it's gonna bruise because I already feel
like it's just risen. I mean, I just and I'm like, wow,
I really have an attitude getting into a suburban, Like
I really prepared.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
For Chevy level clearance and it just was not there.
Oh auchi, Oh that sucks. Yeah, but today I also
the Uber driver. I did take a red eye everyone.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
I also put a list of movies but didn't write
that it was for a flight, and I was like
what should I watch? And then people are like, have
you never seen hocus Pocus? And it's like, oh, I
was not clear. I have seen some of these movies
like this, you know, I'm like this debating what I'm
in the mood for ye, but I make a list.
I don't forget all of them. There's just so many

(10:49):
movies to choose from. Yeah and yeah, well, first of
all dedication. She took a red eye and she worked
and we're shooting this podcast. Well I slept good four
and a half as I have my iced coffee.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
I think it's fine. I did also get upgraded to
Delta one, which changes up. Oh wow, that's nice. Yeah,
I did my first time at the Delta one lounge.
I had a new naggy fucking hand roll. And it's
all table service. And it's not prosecco. It's not sparkling wine. Honey,
it's champagne. It is champagne. It's from the Champagne region
of France. Yes, I had a buttered popcorn. Sunday, I

(11:25):
had yellow toe not. I had some sort of sashimi
I don't even remember what kid like in a sauce.
And then I had a two no avocado role as well,
but you could get like steak fries.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
It's all table service. I feel stupid.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
I didn't even know there was So there's a separate
Delta one that's different.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
They're just like your own security, your own everything. And
I've heard of it, but I usually get upgraded when
I'm already there, like I'm usually playing a game where
I'm like, am I gonna get it or not? But
I did use my regional upgrades, so I got upgraded
that morning, so I knew. So I went an hour
and a half early to sit in the lounge because
I've heard such lovely things about it, so I got
to the airport super early so I could experience it.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
I feel like the last thing that you have not
done is for in terms of flying commercial, is that
service where they pick you up and drive you on
the tarmac.

Speaker 4 (12:13):
Well they did it for me that one time.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
But yeah, Delta three sixty is a goal like Bob
the Drag Queen has it and CEOs, but Delta three sixty. Basically,
I was taking a flight and on the jet bridge
during connection, someone was holding my name and I go, wait,
that's me, and he goes, come with me, And so
I got in a Porsche on the tarmac and he's
taking me to the another gate and I go, what's
going on here?

Speaker 4 (12:33):
And he goes, well, it's for Delta three sixty.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
But we don't have any cause it's and he goes,
but you're the next highest, and I go, okay, well
how do I get Delta three sixty? He goes, I
don't even know the answer to that. He's like, it's
mostly CEOs business people. And then Bob the drag Queen
on a podcast said he has it. So that's all
I know. I think you have to just be buying
first class multiple times a week every week, like yeah,
I think it's like that, or be Kathy Bates, Like

(12:57):
I don't know, Kathy Bates getting wet.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
They're like, we actually can't have this. It's a public
hazard to have her like out in the open. It's
going to cause a huge block at DSA. I mean
I watched her, not the female matt Lock.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
But like when I saw her, I watched her the
whole time, Like it's like she I she didn't go,
she didn't move one thing, order one thing without me noticing.
I saw what she was reading when she was reading
on what like, yeah, I watched her, so like I
do get wanting. But anyway, yeah, wait oh but the
guy today, so it's like early I'm in the car

(13:31):
and he had homemade food and he seemed like like
physically Asian, but he I could I could tell he
speaks Russian.

Speaker 4 (13:40):
And the food was like of the homeland, like I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
And he had all this tupperware and he was offering
me the food, and I wish our world was a
better place because it looked so good. But I was like,
I can't eat I got yeah, yeah, but it smells.
He's like, well, I feel bad eating it. I don't know,
you should eat it. You're like at work at five
in the morning. I'm like, I'm fine, but it looked
so flakey and good. It did look good. I just
wish the world was like, yeah, a little different.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's so true. Wait, tell me
about what you were doing with what you just recently did.
I want to hear about this.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
If there's any students, I doubt it though, but there
was a girl in a slip not shirt. Maybe she'll
check this out. I did University of New Mexico and Albuquerque,
and I brought Jared Goldstein to open and you guys,
it's a Pali Society hotel, but it was called Arrive.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
It only opened in February. I would go there on vacation.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
I'm telling you. The pool, Like the hotel's so fucking cute.
Everything was so cute, but the food. And they had
a jukebox that was free, but old school style was CDs,
so it's like more like cool.

Speaker 4 (14:49):
Yeah it was CDs.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
It moved slow, it was free, and we sat at
the bar and it was just a culinary masterpiece with
Albuquerque kind of like a portable rices. Everything was well balanced, delicious,
like a mescal pina colada, not too sweet, frozen drink
like le She's like really amazing. And then in the morning,

(15:11):
I like worked out by the pool, had iced coffees, delicious,
like we had every single meal there. I had dinner there,
breakfast there, pool snacks, happy hour, and another dinner.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
Yeah wow, Like yeah arrive.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
If you work for Pali's society, I feel like give
me a black card, Like.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Okay, I love I become the delta of her hotels.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Let's go, because we were like looking up other places
to go, but it was like such a vibe. We
loved our bartender, her name was Sherry, shout out girl.

Speaker 4 (15:42):
Like we just had fun.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
The staff newest the next day, I mean, because no
one was really there it's a new hotel, and so
we really felt like celebrities because we wanted a white Lotus.
It's like the poor We did a poor version of
white Lotus. Right. We didn't leave, we didn't see the culture.
We just stayed there. But yeah, had a good time
and we thought a lot Well, we've slept in the

(16:05):
same hotel room, so maybe you would appreciate this too.
So I'm in the further bed. I want it freezing
and like the fan on. And so at one point
Jared looks at me and he goes, wait, it's like
raining and cold outside.

Speaker 4 (16:17):
I go, yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
He goes, why is the air conditioning on? I go, well,
just to sleep, like, I need a fan. I need
cold air. Like, I don't know what to tell you.
And he's like, well, we're switching beds. And then he
said in the middle of the night he wanted to
be sneaky. So he wakes up and like turns off
the fan and gets back in his bed.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
He says, I woke up immediately. He goes, not even
a minute went by. That's like one time I woke up.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
He said, he just heard thee pet like he heard
me clicking and clocking onto the thing.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, one time I woke up to go to the
bathroom and you had you know, Seinfeld or something, and
I just space barred it. Just I was like, she's asleep,
she's not gonna need this anymore. And you did wake
up put it back on.

Speaker 5 (17:00):
You.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Definitely, your subconscious body knows what you need, even when
you're sleeping.

Speaker 4 (17:04):
I know, but I need I need therapy. That's not good.
But yeah, I mean it's probably the kind of thing that.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
If you actually just forced yourself for a few days,
you'd stop.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
But like, you know, whatever, it's just too it's just
too much. Yeah, and I'm ass going I need the cold,
cold air.

Speaker 4 (17:21):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
I used to do that though, Like I grew up
in the Northeast, and I used to put the ac
on sometimes in the winter because I liked it so
cold in my room so I could be cozy under
my comforter. Like that's that's not a weird. I used
to do that in science you sleep better but it's cold.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
But basically, like any college gig, you never know what
you're gonna get.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
And I would see the student government was incredible.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
This guy Andrew, you know, hopefully he uses his powers
for good, not evil, but he had he is everyone
followed this man's lead.

Speaker 4 (17:51):
I mean he was in charge of everything.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
And then also was like and if you could believe,
but I'm also the vice president of our fraternity, and
I go, yeah, no, we're believing.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
He was in charge.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
But it was a lecture hall for about seven hundred students,
and I would say there was max thirty students.

Speaker 4 (18:08):
Oh my god, that's always that's every that's so many.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
College and half of them worked at student government. Half
of them brought me like they were part of the
club that had to be there. So then and then
there was two like a couple that was definitely in
their sixties and I'm like, and he was in school
for music.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
So that was like fun.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
But afterwards, you know, we were hanging out and Jared said,
I think you taught a lot of those kids a
new way to behave He's like, I don't think they
thought or do that you could talk like that. He's like,
you really went out. Yeah, they had. I had a
good time. Like That's the thing. I would rather thirty
than seven hundred.

Speaker 4 (18:47):
Were there were there were there limits?

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Were they like they don't talk about X y Z
because they do that at colleges a lot.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
No, but I kept asking about certain they were being
like shy about certain things, and then they were like, well,
we're a dry cans. And then afterwards the faculty like
person of the club was in the back, who's in
charge of all greek life or campus, and so they
couldn't they had to be good boys.

Speaker 5 (19:11):
Yeah and go yeah right.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
But I would say, culturally, what was weird that you
might be shocked at promise rings?

Speaker 4 (19:17):
Crosses?

Speaker 2 (19:19):
It was because I know, for some reason, you know,
I never know how old anyone is or what's going on.
I do notice everyone's wedding ring like I do notice
I'm usually because and jewelry because I just saw someone
I go ear rings and they were like, oh I
just got my earspurs two weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (19:33):
Like for some reason, that is something I notice.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
I'll be like, yeah, you're engaged or like just last week,
like I I'm on it. And so I see this
young girl who's I think only a sophomore, you know,
So I go, what's going on? Here? I go, you're engaged,
and she goes, it's a promise ring. And then these
other two girls go, ah, you finally got it and
then they're all like screaming and they all have promise rings.
I feel like it's Mormon down there, isn't it. None

(19:57):
of these people were white, but I guess like you
can be not white and a Mormon, but it's not. Yeah,
like I don't know, but there were crosses, Like the
guy in charge had a cross on his truck.

Speaker 4 (20:08):
This the I started my crowd.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
We're talking to like this couple with crosses necklaces. Yeah,
the youth, because the youth aren't fucking, they're not drinking,
they're not going out.

Speaker 4 (20:19):
You know, that is a real reality.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
And I just spread something about how like, you know,
religion has been on decline in our country for a
really long time, and it's kind of the decline is
kind of leveling out because of young people. I think
a lot of young people are becoming religious like in
ways that they weren't a generation ago. They were like
rebelling against that. So ooh, a promise ring, baby, you

(20:44):
don't know who you want to marry when you're nineteen
ten years old.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
And sometime of it. So Jared as a friend who's
a midwife. She does midwife in Albuquerque, so she came
and met us at the white Lotus.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
Okay, and at the off white Lotus. I'm calling it.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
So but it was funny because Jared was so shocked
at my question, but because of just like the world
and gender. But I was like, I go, how many
bad partners and fathers do you see? And she goes
oh all the time constantly, and Jared was like, well really,
And I was like, yeah, like you thought I asked
that just because I knew the answer. I knew the

(21:20):
answer before I even and she goes, the issue is
there's a lot of teen pregnancy down there, like people
people are young having kids, and like it's older people.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
But he yeah, she goes at that, like one in
ten are normal. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
One guy brought a TV with video games. Of course,
of course you got a game sleeping.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
You gotta game sleep, you gotta yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, I don't know. I had this time in my life.
I liked seeing the kids. I like, I don't know.
Sometimes there are these weekends where I'm just like at
this hotel bar being like, wow, I'm so grateful I
got like, what a fun couple days, yet got to
converse with the youth.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
It's so funny though, college shows are like just I
think it's like a part of neperty.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
It's a part of comedy.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
That I don't think a lot of people ever like.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Consider how because at the end they are I go,
does anyone want advice? And one guy in the middle
ent no, and yeah, of course, Like I'm I'm at
a lecture hall and no one's here, Like of course
you don't think that you want my advice?

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, but like it's weird, Like I've done I've done
college shows that are hugely attended and college shows that
are twelve people in their pajama pants that like, honestly
they came to get food and they just saw you
talking and they kind of stopped, you know, Like it's
like it's such a crapshoot. The colleges are like the
cultures of different colleges are always so different, and also

(22:43):
like they're just so young, like most mostly I would
say it's freshmen that go to these shows. Freshmen I've
never seen comedy before ever, and they've barely seen comedy
and they've barely developed. Like not to I'm not trying
to like, like, you know, denigrate the use, but I
saw David Tell at eighteen, I wish I could go back.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
In time because I remember loving it. I remember certain jokes.
Obviously I was He's still my favorite, but I was like,
was I laughing? Like I wonder if he had fun
that night or not. But it was a basketball arena.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
We were younger.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
I don't know about you watching it, but when we
were younger, stand up comedy was like on TV a
lot more like I was watching well, I was watching
specials on HBO.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
They watched it differently though they just watch it on TikTok.
So it's less quality of people, I would say, not
in a way like I obviously love tons of people's clips,
but to get on TV was a barrier of entry,
whether the industry was right or not, and it's not.
You do have to work, like you had to work
for probably five to ten years to get on Comedy

(23:45):
Central and so there. Yeah, we watched really good half
hours and really good comedians that are like I would
say ninety percent of the people that had half hours
are still working or eighty percent or something or in
some capacity. Yeah right, yeah, yeah, But like I would,
I would go through those lists and see, like all
the people that did the like what was the Gotham

(24:06):
Nightly Show. What Liva Gotham Gotha that a big vers credit. Yeah,
that was a big deal.

Speaker 4 (24:12):
He came to New York.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
He had done that from Chicago and he came to
New York and was like, I'm I'm big shit.

Speaker 4 (24:17):
I did live at Gotham and New York let him.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Know very quickly that that was not true, Like they
were like, actually, you get.

Speaker 4 (24:24):
That into the line now, sir.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
But yeah, it's just funny, Like just I think that
eighteen and nineteen year olds are completely very smart. It's
just like in a lot of places, they haven't had
any life experience yet. So you're like, you know when
you don't get you know, you do this or like
you know, your first apartment, and they're like, no, we don't,
we don't know anything.

Speaker 4 (24:43):
Oh yeah, we don't know anything. You know. Like I
had to do a high school show once.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
I did to a school for high school seniors, and
I was like, oh, they've had like zero life experience
except for like playing sports and like you know, trying
to get into college. Listen, let's get started. We have
a big episode today. As always www dot That's messed
up Live dot Com takes you to Lisa's website page

(25:08):
with all of her tour dates, our merch our promo.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Come in Atlanta. I think I'm in Charlotte. I mean
I'm in places.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
He's all over, she's bouncing around babies. But also that
honeylove code is working again. Somebody messaged me about it.
It's working again. Just speaking of our codes.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
Oh and I hope everyone had fun playing the Lisa
Traeger Grids on movie Grid and oh my god, they're
still they are.

Speaker 4 (25:35):
Yeah, okay, I got it.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
I honestly saw one of them and I go, this
one looks too hard, Like I saw one of them
on this.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
This is the thing.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Whatever it's whenever it's box office gross, I'm like, I'm out,
like I don't know that stuff.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Well, Tommy McNamara a good friend, he messaged me, but
so it's I I said, it's big actors.

Speaker 4 (25:52):
That's why it's hard.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
It's like movies by Bruce Willis that are under one
hundred million, and he put red. I go so it
had a sequel. It was a star studded movie with
a sequel. It's a franchise. Why of course it made
over one hundred million. I'm like you're a fucking idiot. No,
I made the mistake of what I did for Sex
and the City trivia when everyone revolted against me because Doug.

(26:15):
I messaged Doug Benson to play it and he got
two things wrong. So if Doug Benson's getting shit wrong,
I think I did make it too hard. But I
also need to say I was not the top of
any of my own like these movie dorks are cheating
or geniuses. But I only got top two three percent
and though and then, but I've been playing on every
I've been playing on Chrome on my phone, then on

(26:36):
my laptop, like I keep playing it.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
It's mine, like I'm excited. So I cheated up. Yeah,
I didn't know they were giving you four grids.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
By the way, if you go to moviegrid dot io,
it's at that hop it's still and there's it is.
I'm on it right now. There's four grids. That one
seemed hard to me. Number one seems like I could
do that one. The Drew barrymore ben still right well.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
And with that one, I did a lot of overlapping,
like in that all the categories overlap, and I did
that on purpose, And I'm proud of myself.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Oh, and I can do this, Julia Sandra Sarah, I'm
gonna do that one. I'm gonna do one of three,
all right, I'm gonna do them right after we're done recording. Okay, guys,
let's get going. Pandora babies all right, Oh my gosh, guys,
we're finally here. Stabler goes to Europe.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
The show.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
The episode is here where Stabler goes to brog. We've
been waiting for it. It's Pandora. It is not a
weird charm bracelet. Okay, So Pandora, obviously, you know I
love it.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
I also think about, you know, Lisa vander Pump's daughter,
and I think about Pandora's Box.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
What is that green?

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Well, yes, so Pandora's Box is the myth of Pandora,
who was a human created by the gods who then
opened a box and released all the evils of humanity.
So when somebody says that's why, I do think it's
a little bit crazy to name your daughter pans like
this is a person who, in mythology unleashed evil on
the world.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
Pandy.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
I mean, like it sounds beautiful, but like, did you
ever google it before you did it? I mean, I
know Pandy's probably a pre Google baby, but like, still
you check a check a name book, check a name
book on Pandora.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
It's also well that radio, well Pandora that's after the radio. Yeah,
you can't blame that.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
No, but I just it's funny that just the word
Pandora just takes up so many there's so much branding
around Pandora.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Which is fun You're right, if it's all about misfortune,
why would it be a jewelry company and a radio company.
It's just like, I get this. This is about to
be about sexteen trafficking. So it's like, yeah, well with
the music seems like misfortune.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, the music I can almost get it because it's
kind of like.

Speaker 4 (28:49):
You're, no, I got it.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Look it's the Evils of the World, or or it's
a z am I'm gonna I'm gonna change it to
or temptations that we can't resist because of curiosity. So
I guess it's just like you know music, it's so.

Speaker 4 (29:04):
Like music, I kind of get it.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
And it's also like once you listen to one thing
on Pandora, it leads you to so many other things.
Like it's kind of that's like the point of Pandora,
but like the Bracelet Company, I don't get a naming
your kids.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
Because even in that with Lisa Vander Pumpets like, so,
my daughter's gonna be so temptatious, No, like, no one
can resist, sir. I don't know if temptatious is a word.
Tempting I think is the word that's march temptationous. The
word temptatious. I think that's an awesome word.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
That's like tempting your that's like attempting, more sexy than tempting,
like super sexy.

Speaker 4 (29:40):
Tempting is temptatious.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
Okay, so we this episode, you know, we're actually doing
two in a row from season four. We usually like
to mix it up, but what are we going to
do when we get the classics? We get the classics.
So this one opens as so many episodes of the
show open. A couple is out for a night on
the town and has some how had their night completely
ruined and are bickering and they're about to find out

(30:04):
that things could get much worse. So he's mad at
her for not bringing her cell phone. She's like, you
went out of gas, and she's and it's like a
phone wouldn't change running out of gas whatever, So she
goes to some other parked car to see if they
have a phone. No one's in the car. They start
walking away, but then they hear whom muffled sounds coming
from the trunk. They bust it open and it's a
woman covered in blood whimpering. Okay, so now next scene,

(30:31):
Benson's there. This woman has been stabbed multiple times, beaten,
and sexually assaulted with a tire iron, and her lips
are super glued shut. Like fuck, this is a I mean,
I'm telling you, the early seasons have some of the
most horrific, like victim fines, Like it's really like blood
dripping out of the trunk of a car and like

(30:52):
you know, buttholes glued.

Speaker 4 (30:53):
Shut and stuff like it's really anyway.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
She also stopped breathing once already and they brought her back,
so she's hanging on by a thread. There's no keys
or ID, but the car is registered to Meredith McGrath
and it has bumper damaged. They think this guy probably
rear ended her then attacked. He didn't take any money
out of her purse, he just took her license with
her dunk down address on it.

Speaker 4 (31:15):
Uh oh.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
They book it over to the apartment, which is already
crawling with cops. There's a dead man in the apartment
and homicide is already there. Homicide Detective Sam Bishop introduces
himself to Stabler. He's played by William McNamara, who's had
a very long career, but for me specifically played an
extremely scary serial killer in the movie Copycat, which is
a Cling family classic, which gave me nightmares when I

(31:38):
had to sleep with my closet clothes for months and years.
The victim that they are investigating here is Roger McGrath.
They think he surprised a burglar, and they're pretty sure
that he wasn't sexually assaulted, so they're kind of like,
you know, why's the panty police here?

Speaker 5 (31:54):
The usual thing we.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Get from them, and Stabler's like, well, his wife was
and we think he stole her keys and came here
for something. And Bishop's like, well, the hard drive of
the computer is completely ripped out, but the killer didn't
find everything. He also missed this. It looks like a
DVD player. I can't really tell, but it's got a
couple of burned CDs. They're talking about CDs the whole time.
If you're a young child, that's a pre internet thing

(32:18):
we used to have.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Meet Oh my god, if you've seen the trend online
where parents are going with their kids and saying like
outdated mean parents sayings leaving the blank them and the
kids are just like, yeah, it's so cute.

Speaker 4 (32:32):
What is it?

Speaker 2 (32:33):
I brought you into this world and I can and
it's like feed me like it's all.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
Play with you, ye, play with me? Yeah, thank you?

Speaker 5 (32:40):
So cute.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
It's it is that is it's nice. It's nice. Yeah, yeah,
that's so cute. Maybe I'll do it with Rosie. Please
do it with Rosie. I bet they're all going to
be gross though.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
She's a real Yeah, she'll be like poop, She'll be like,
pee on my face.

Speaker 4 (32:56):
She also is when the hammer goes on or turns into.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
A total like psycho, just jumping around and talking in gibberish.
So anyway, Stabler is like, well, how do you want
to work this? And Bishop goes, I'll call you if
I need you, and then Stabler's phone rings and uh oh,
Meredith just died. So now it's a double homicide and
these two need to work together, which famously. Stabler is

(33:23):
not very good at okay. He does not love collaborating
with other men. So Live now has So then it's
the credits and now Live has written with Meredith in
the to the hospital and then she gets quote caught
up in the er with a child abuse case that
she happened to grab ale she was there, and so
she's basically out for the rest of the episode. I
don't know what's going on with Marishka, but she's not

(33:44):
in this episode. Stabler is talking things out with the
gang at the precinct. The husband was clearly killed for
the hard drive, but they can't figure out why the
wife's attack happened. The superglued mouth shut is sending a message.
Craigan says, like she talked when she shouldn't have, and
they start digging into Meredith's life. So now they're at
the New York Public Library where this woman worked, and
this nerdy man is telling them, Oh, everyone loved Meredith,

(34:08):
and he's like, she was really not likely having an
affair at work. It's mostly women that work here and
she didn't swing that way. And the guy goes and
with the guys not to be a jerk, but I
don't think she'd risk her marriage on any of these,
you know, literary losers, so coworker jealousy, anything like that.

Speaker 4 (34:24):
He's like, actually, it's the opposite.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
I almost had to fire her recently because she was
very distracted at work, taking a lot of sick days
vacation days. She also changed her email address seven to
eight times last year. And he's like, they think maybe
she has some kind of stalker. And it's kind of
wild that you waited this long in the combo to
bring that up, sir. Like everyone loved her, by the way,
stalker comes up way later. She does not have a

(34:45):
work computer. She always brought her laptop. So now Stabler
marches into Bishop's office and is like, yo, what's the
story with the tu give me the laptop report like asap,
and Bishop's like, I don't have it yet. But Stabler goes,
what'd you get off those CD? And I love him
calling them full CD ROMs? And it is so two
thousand and three. I was still in two thousand and

(35:07):
three making mix CDs for people. I think for sure
I was making mixes on side. I was listening to
things made for me. But as you know, I'm not
really into technology, so I was not making any Yeah,
I had like a stereo where you could record tape
to CD, and I was like and CD to CD
and I was like obsessed. So it's of course Bishop goes, well,

(35:31):
we found this on the CD ROMs clicks on a
button on a computer the size of a shopping cart,
and now it's child sex abuse images, of course, which
they call kitty porn.

Speaker 4 (35:39):
But like this is probably what the PURP was looking for.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
And Stabler is pissed that Bishop didn't share this with him,
and Bishop's like, why did think I needed a report
to you? And here we go, and I bet this
is like very real. And why cops do fuck up
so much is because they all think they're a genius
and they're going to break the whole thing wide open
and they don't need anyone to help them. And like
that's part of I feel like why there's so many
problems in police bungling big long investigations is like women

(36:06):
collaborate with each other, usually to be overarching, and men
try to get the glory for themselves, which is why
a woman helped bust Ted Bundy and identify who he was.
But anyway, Stabler explains that Meredith changed her email multiple
times and it was probably because she didn't want to
get caught with all this material. This guy was after Meredith,
not the husband. Bishop goes, you guys want you guys

(36:28):
ask if you guys want the PERV crap, you can
have it, and they do.

Speaker 4 (36:31):
They want the PERV crap.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
So now we're at TARU and we've got Ruben Morales
aka friend of the pod Jole de la Fuente, and
he is all over this episode and he's sarcastically like, yeah,
thanks for sending me all this horrible shit. Guys, They're like, well,
there's two different girls in a lot of these pictures.

Speaker 4 (36:46):
One is eight or nine and one is fourteen to fifteen.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
And he's like, the stuff is twisted, but the computer
is rigged with some kind of virus, Like I can't
see everything yet. So Bishop wants to know if they
can id the girls. Stabler explains that all child sex
abuse images go to the FBI, who use facial recognition
and cross reference it with Nick Mick, which is the
National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. The picks came
to Meredith from a guy named Nick Toushai at wiremail

(37:12):
dot BZ, which they say BIZ, but we all know
Biz is BIZ, and so this is a wild email address.
She saves the emails with the pictures, and Bishop says, well,
wiremail has an anonymous server, and Morales is like, yeah,
nothing's really anonymous on the Internet and explains IP addresses
to him, which I feel now more people know about.

(37:33):
He can only narrow it down to the computer lab
at Stuyvesant College, but if they get a subpoena, the.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
School can tell you who the user is.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
So she also saved her Internet chats, which show her
trolling for more porn. Morales says, yeah, I tried reading
a couple of these, but then I stopped when I
felt like puking. So back at the precinct, Bishop is
staring at a picture of Benson and her dead mom
and he's getting very horny and he's like, oh, man,
does she date? And Stabler goes lots of guys and
then changes the subject like I'm not helping you get

(38:02):
a date with my hot partner. And then Stabler gets
off the phone with the college and they're basically like, yeah,
we don't know who this was. Someone hacked into our
system remotely to use the college system, so like, we
can't trace this guy.

Speaker 4 (38:14):
The college thing was a red herring.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
So Bishop is saying, if Nick Tushai killed Meredith, he
did us a favor. And then he references one of
the chat where a guy's offering Meredith three hundred photos
of boys under seven if he can take her son
to a motel for an hour, but she doesn't have
any kids. Stabler's like, I'm not getting this. Why would
this woman be lying so much going to an adult
chat room to pretend to be a thirteen year old girl.

(38:37):
When she starts setting up meetings with the guys, she
saves all the communication. She doesn't offer anything illegal until
the guys ask for it. What does that sound like
to you?

Speaker 5 (38:46):
Now?

Speaker 1 (38:46):
To us, this obviously sounds like someone luring pedophiles because
we are all now grown up on to catch a
predator essentially, But that show did not even premiere until
November of two thousand and four, and that's an entire
year and half after this episode airs. So this show
again ahead of the curve, like people going into chatrooms
to like lure out predators. I feel like was popularized

(39:09):
by Dateline and we it wasn't even happening yet public publicly,
So bish, I mean it, it was probably happening. I'm
sure fed's were doing that way earlier, as soon as
like chatrooms started, but it just wasn't like in the
you know, conversation.

Speaker 4 (39:25):
Bishop doesn't get it either.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
He's like, well, it sounds like a pedophile to me,
and Stabler's like, no, this is how fed's sting pedophiles online.

Speaker 5 (39:32):
So this woman is an informant.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Okay, So talking to Morales again, he goes, well, that
makes sense. The virus I found on the laptop was
actually a trojan horse that was designed to record every
keystroke that Meredith made, and it was sent to her
by Nick Toushai. After he sent it to her, he
could literally see every move she made online. So he
must have found out that she was an informant, killed her,
and stolen the evidence. Yeah, Like, never forget that. To

(39:57):
be a pedophile you also have to be a a
grade hacker. She sent tons of info to a federal email.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Actually, what I was thinking this whole episode, like, if
you are a pedophile, it is a lot of like
you need to be good at tech.

Speaker 4 (40:11):
You can't not be good at tech.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, yep, yep, because some I'm sure there's people that
tell you exactly how to do it on the Internet.
They're like, you got to go get a VPN and
then you got to this is how you access the
black web or the dark web, you know, like.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
There's yeah, I wonder if it's like, yeah, violent, because
there are people that will do it in person. Yeah, yeah,
and knows that. So I guess then I don't know.
I I guess I don't know the inner workings of
pedophile mind. Oh my god, this episode gets really fucking dark.

Speaker 4 (40:43):
But so she did.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Meredith did send tons of info to a federal email
address to someone named Claudia Williams, and Stabler goes ding
ding ding with his little light bulb face because he
knows her. She appears in episode five of this same
season called Disappearing Act, which is about the father son
Russian mob thing with John Hurd Rest in Peace, and
Sabler also knows Claudia as not FBI, she's an assistant

(41:09):
US attorney. Done done, And I realized I've never really
looked up US attorneys like what they are, and so
I decided I wanted to US attorneys are federal prosecutors.
Who preside over districts, like in New York there's the
Southern District, Eastern and Western, and there might also be Northern,
but like Southern District of New York. Yeah, they have Northeast,

(41:31):
Southwestern New York, and Southern is Manhattan and Bronx and
Eastern is Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island and Long Island.
So it's very interesting to me that certain like Manhattan,
I mean not Manhattan, New York City itself is divided
into different districts, like are covered by different districts. I
guess that probably makes sense because it's so populous and big.
But like Keith Rannieri from Nexium tried in the Southern

(41:54):
District of New York. Jenshaw tried in the Southern District
of New York. If any of your crimes extend into Manhattan,
you're in their jurisdiction. And they're a very powerful district,
Like they win ninety nine percent of their cases. Like
it's nine that's like remember when Jen or ninety seven,
Like that's like when Jen, I know because of.

Speaker 4 (42:12):
The Luigia case. Oh wowowing closely.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
So now we're talking to Claudia and she is, of
course the icon Pam Greer. Okay, yeah, she is listed
on her Wikipedia as singer, actor, and martial artist, and
that's fucking a triple threat that you cannot fuck with.
Quentin Tarantino calls her the first female action star. She
came up in all of these classic blaxploitation films, and

(42:37):
then she worked steadily for decades. Jackie Brown, Jawbreaker. She
was on the L Word for seventy episodes. She's still
at it, sadly only two episodes of SVU. I felt
like it was more, but you know, we did get
her for two. As usual, stable Er is asking someone
way higher up than him, why didn't you let me
in on the big picture? And she's like, I was

(42:57):
gonna come to you when I had something concrete, and
he accuses her of using a civilian to do her job,
and she's like, listen, Meredith was a cybervigilante. She did
this long before she started working with the FEDS, and
she came to us, and then she goes, what were
we supposed to do?

Speaker 4 (43:13):
Turn her away?

Speaker 1 (43:14):
It's like, well, I mean, I guess it is funny
that you're like, well, anybody that comes to us with
some police work done, we are going to take them on,
you know, like it is funny. But Stabler's like, okay,
but she got killed doing your dirty work, so like
it was her choice, so oopsie. And Claudia is like,
she helps us put away five pedophiles in the last year.
That doesn't seem like that many considering how many that

(43:34):
are out there, But okay, that is good work. Claudia
insists she's just as invested as Stabler in finding Meredith's killer,
like she was appreciative of Meredith's work. Stabler's like, show
me the files and no bullshit about how it compromises
your case. And then Claudia flashes him a file and
opens it and goes shows a picture and goes recognize
this girl And it's the older girl from the file

(43:56):
from the photos that they found on the cd ROMs,
like the fourteen fifteen years and Bishop is the ones
he and Bishop were looking at earlier. And her name
is Mia van Wagner. She's a fourteen year old from
Queen's And this girl looks so familiar, like I looked
her up my lifeiress, oh she does, yeah, she looks
like yes, my face. Her name is Alexis Dianna, and

(44:18):
she worked a bunch until twenty ten and then it
seems like her career has slowed down. But she was
in an episode of Strangers with Candies, so maybe I
know her from that. But anyway, the Miley Cyrus is
helping me a lot. Yes, uh. Anyway, Mia has been
missing for two weeks and her photos only started showing
up on the internet after she disappeared, so they think
she was kidnapped and Meredith found out, and that's possible motive.

(44:41):
So back at the sixteenth, Stabler's telling Kragan that this
girl's local precinct basically ignored the case because they figured
she was a runaway. She packed her bag, she stole
money from her mom. And then Bishop shows back up
and Craigan's like, what do you want to join us
for you? And He's like, I like my victims dead,
which they always say.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
He found the address of MIA's mother's job at a
restaurant in Queen's. It is so sad to me that
you have to just keep going to work at a
restaurant in Queen's when your daughter's fully missing, Like you
just you got to go to work like That's I
was like, so sad for her. Talking to the mom
at the restaurant, she's explaining, she's like, I told the
cops I didn't think Mia ran away. She's like, I
don't allow me to have the internet. Stabler mentions these

(45:21):
photos and the mom's like what photos?

Speaker 5 (45:23):
Like can I see them?

Speaker 1 (45:24):
And Stablers like, babe, you do not want to see
these pics, like you'll never get them out of your head.
And then the mom says she spends a lot of
time at Samantha Gilligan's house that Mia does, and that
maybe she could have used her computer. So they go
over to Samantha and she Samantha she is pretty chill
about her best friend who's been missing for two weeks okay,
and the cops are really annoying her. She says, Mia

(45:47):
just took off and hasn't called me. Okay, I don't
know anything, and Samantha's like, Mia can take care of herself,
and it's like yeah, like most fourteen year olds. But
Samantha goes, she's way more mature than people think. So
they're like, oky, girl, has mea ever used your computer?

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Girls?

Speaker 4 (46:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (46:03):
And she's like maybe yeah, and she's being so fucking
cagy It's like, I don't know. If I was fourteen
and the cops aroused me about my missing friend, I'd
be like, here's my computer, passwords, check everything. But Bishop's like,
I'm sure, well, actually maybe not. She's covering up for
what she thinks is her friend, just like being with
her boyfriend. I think what we find out, so maybe
maybe I wouldn't be that as cool. Bishop's like, I'm

(46:24):
sure you guys hit the chatrooms to pick up guys,
and sam goes, okay, whatever is what is that?

Speaker 4 (46:30):
Is that an answer? Like she doesn't say anything.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
He's like, come on, you guys hit the chat rooms,
and she goes, okay whatever, Like all right, shut down
the combo, there, girl. So then when they ask her
if a guy ever tried to pick up Mia, she goes,
am I psychic, like giving attitude till the very last second.
I do think we should teach kids to be aware
of the police. But this girl gives zero fox. That's
what I wrote down. So when Bishop takes it a

(46:54):
step further and shoves one of MEA's pictures in the
girl's face, she goes, does it look like she's having fun?
Then Samantha gets upset and decides to be a little
bit more forthcoming. She tells them about Mia having a
boyfriend online. She's like, I swear I don't know where
they are. She said, Mia called me a couple days
ago after she left, but she didn't say where she was.
Samantha doesn't believe that the boyfriend would exploit her or

(47:17):
use her in these pictures.

Speaker 4 (47:18):
He loves her.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
She showed me all the emails that he sent to her,
and Stabler goes like, be a doll and go fetch
those emails, babe. And then outside, Stabler is pissed at
Bishop for showing Samantha the photos.

Speaker 4 (47:29):
Bishop's like she was lying.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Her ass off, and he's like, so you terrorize her
And he's like, we got what we came for.

Speaker 4 (47:34):
I don't have time for handholding.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
And it's like she is a child, though, so you're
gonna have to hold a hand a little bit. And
Stabler's like, listen up, bro, don't jump in my game
like that again. If anyone's going to traumatize a victim,
it's me, you know, Like that's kind of He's like,
that's my turf. So Stabler tells Bishop it's only going
to get uglier so if you can't take the heat,
get out of the Pedophileville kitchen, you know. And Bishop's like, well,
why don't we split up the work. I'll dump this

(47:57):
girl's phone and you take the emails. So back to Morales,
he's helping Stabler look at the emails. But the server
the emails came from are a bit out of the
NYPD jurisdiction. They're coming from Prague in the Czech Republic.
So now Stabler is back with Pam Greer aka Claudia Williams,
and she confirms that the sender is a guy named
Eric Tasig, a German living in the Czech Republic. The

(48:19):
Czechs won't arrest him based on emails. They need proof
that he actually has the girl. He hasn't left the
Czech Republic in eight months, so he must have convinced
Mia to come to him. But she has no passport,
so how did he smuggle this girl out of the country.
We just have to prove it and the checks will
help us. So now we're at the connect the dots board. Okay,
at the precinct. Mia has had an online relationship with

(48:41):
Tasig for a year, so she's fourteen she's been talking
to this guy since she was thirteen. Photos of Mia
and the unknown little girl were sent by Nick Touschai
to Meredith. So Nick Toschai must be the one who
murdered Meredith and her husband. Could they be the same person?
Probably not, because Tasig's emails are very esl and nick
two shays are not okay. So it's like clear that

(49:03):
he's not an English speaker and that Nick Toushai is.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
So how do these guys who know each other? And
who is the little girl and where is she?

Speaker 1 (49:09):
It's like, I'm sure they know each other from an
online forum, but we're going to find out. Bishop busts
in with some more tea. Mia called Samantha from a
prepaid sell which she used the first two days she
was missing, but has not used since. Three calls to
the same phone number. A photo copy shop in Midtown
and that's a place where you done done get passport photos.
So at the copy shop and employee immediately goes, oh, yeah,

(49:32):
that's Carrie. It's a photo of Mia. She goes, that's Carrie.
She's my boss's daughter. Ron He's right in the back
if you want to talk to him. The quickest we've
ever gotten to anything. I know who that is. Boss
is in the back, like that girl delivered. Okay, don't
want to judge a book, but ron looks like a pedophile. Okay,
Like they cast this man to be like a pedophile
looking man. They show him the photo and he's like,

(49:53):
well but a pedophile, yeah, yeah, yeah, And he's like,
there's a resemblance, but that's not Carrie. And they're pressing
him and he's being bitchy. They're like, show us a
picture of your daughter, and when he hesitates, Bishop flips
him around for a pat down, grabs his wallet. Family
photo in there shows a completely different girl that is

(50:14):
not me, that is his daughter. So they bring him in.
So now it's Ronnie, Bishop and Stabler. They're chopping it
up in cement room bars. Okay, Ronnie's claiming he's never
seen that girl and his employee made a mistake.

Speaker 4 (50:25):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
They're like, all right, so then why did me call
your copy shop three times that day? And he's like,
maybe she needed copies? And Bishop slaps this guy upside
the back of his head in a way that I enjoy.
I don't like police brutality, but I like a good
slap up the side of the head. Stabler wildly playing
good cop for once is basically like, you better talk
because my guy Bishop is sick of waiting, like he's

(50:46):
really enjoying the role reversal for two minutes, they bring
up the rape and murder, and suddenly Ronnie is.

Speaker 4 (50:52):
Like, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa wrong guy like.

Speaker 5 (50:54):
That is not me.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
Bishop is about to rough him up when Claudia Williams
walks in with Craig and they tell Bishop to take
a walk, and she introduces herself to Ronnie and he
threatens a lawsuit on the department, and she's like, you
will not be having any further contact with Bishop, don't
you worry. She asks if he has custody of his
daughter and he gives it up. No carries with my ex.
And then he asks, well, why did you recently get

(51:16):
her a passport then, and he's like no, and they're like, bitch,
they didn't bring a US attorney in here to fuck around, Like,
obviously she has receipts the passport application birth certificate, but
the photo is Mia van Wagner, so frauduently obtaining a
passport is a serious offense. If you think the NYPD sucks,
wait till you start dealing with the FEDS. And I'm like,
I think the Feds the NYPD beats you up more.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
But whatever.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
He says, he didn't kidnap her. He just gotut of
the passport and he helped her leave the country, which
is what she wanted to do. And he doesn't know
the name of the guy. But Claudia is like, you
guys share illegal images online and Customs is already searching
your house students, so don't bother. So he is a pedophile.
This man is a pedofile. For a second, I was like, oh,
well they cast a guy he was a pedophile. But
it's a red herring. He is a pedophile, he's just

(52:00):
not the pedophile that we're looking for. Ronnie says, the
guy gave him five thousand dollars to help and then
he bought the plane ticket, but the girl wanted to go.
And he denies knowing who this little girl is, and
he has no idea who Meredith McGrath is. And he says,
I was just helping this girl take a trip to
Europe by herself.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
Is that a crime?

Speaker 1 (52:18):
And it's like, you have a fourteen year old daughter, Sir,
do you think there's something wrong with her going to
another country to visit some random creep?

Speaker 5 (52:24):
Like you're the worst.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
And so we all know this man is a creep
and a perv, but he did not commit this murder.

Speaker 4 (52:31):
Like none of us think Ronnie is capable.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Craigan confirms his prints do not match the prints on
like the scene at the body really shaky.

Speaker 4 (52:39):
Yeah, yes, sweaty. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
I don't think copy shop guy is like doing all
of this car bumping and then murdering, and you know.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
The pedophiles in any way he can, which is making copies.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Yes, in walks, Claudia going Stabler, how is it you've
never gotten a passport? And he's like I never needed one,
and it's like, yeah, in two thousand and three, Stabler
didn't have a passport, and in twenty seventeen he moved
his whole family to Rome, so you people can change.
I thought maybe he'd traveled with the Marines, but maybe not.

(53:12):
I was like googling whether the military gives you a passport,
but they apparently give you some kind of special idea,
so that's you know, it's possible, and that's how we
can get on the flights faster. Yeah, he may have
just marined locally too. He maybe didn't go anywhere abroad.
But after that he was too busy knocking up his
wife and memorizing New York City Catholic schools to ever
take a trip out of the country. So Stabler is
never gone anywhere, and he had yet.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Their family vacations are to Disney, you know, or to
the Jersey Shore.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
It's the shore, babe. They're not going any further than
the shore with five kids. No, no, no, but they
are not coughing up for Disney.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Well, it wasn't that crazy at this time, Like I feel,
we were still living in an America that was like
maybe affordable.

Speaker 4 (53:52):
That's true, that's true.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
I mean I just paid so much for me and
Oscar to go alone for one day, and my parents
took three of us for three three days. I in
that today would cost five thousand dollars. I mean, like
so much with hotel, like so much. But did we
find out on a recent episode their salaries like they're
making like sixty eight or something in the early seasons,

(54:15):
like they're not.

Speaker 4 (54:15):
I just don't know if he I just don't know
if he's doing Disney. But you know, you're right. I
think it's Jersey Shore.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
I think it's a it's a an old partner's house
on the Jersey shore or something. Anyway, Sailor is about
to get the European trip he never dreamed of.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Oh you know what, he makes his kids go camping.
I feel it in my own I feel it in
my bones. Survival skills. Ah, he's a camper. He's a camper.
He's taking the kids camping because that's how he vacation. Yeah,
I see it, I see it now.

Speaker 4 (54:42):
Sailor is about to get the European trip he never
dreamed of.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Customs months and SVU detective in Prague for when they
find me a so go pick up your passport and
your plane ticket at JFK in two hours. And it's
like hilarious, how quick they act, Like the federal government works,
like they just found this out, and they're like, you're
ticketing your passports waiting at the at the airport. So
Stabler is off to Prague. So we're at the US
Embassy in Prague. And that's very obvious because bells are ringing,

(55:07):
and that happens only in Europe Okay, Sabler meets with
Europeole officer Kate Logan, and as she shakes his hand,
Stabler is standing in front of an extremely obvious green
screen shot of Europe, which I confirmed online, where a
bunch of sites say that this is basically the only
time the show uses green screen, like just this inside,

(55:28):
and maybe it's possible in more recent days, but like
they're pretty staunchly an on location show, you know, Like so,
but I know they're not gonna fly all the way
to Prague just to get like a shot of him
outside the like the fucking embassy. So there's this one
shot that's green screen, and then the rest of it.
They definitely are finding parts of New York that look

(55:50):
very European, like old churches, cobblestone streets, stuff like that.
Kate Logan is played by Doug Marra dominsk I'm sorry
if I'm saying that incorrectly. She is a Polish actor
who has worked Natalie over the past twenty five years.
You might recognize her as Carolina Navatni on Succession. That's
her most recent big thing that she was in multiple episodes,
like thirty episodes of Succession, and she's married to the

(56:11):
actor Patrick Wilson.

Speaker 4 (56:13):
So that's pretty fun.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
Yeah, And she tells Sabler, they'll give you a gun,
and she goes, she goes, do you speak checker German? Lol,
Like Sabler, he actually goes a little Spanish, and it's like, bitch,
when I've never even heard you say oh la, like
you we all know Benson handles all the bilingual duties,
like I've never even heard him say borvobore. And so anyway,

(56:36):
She's like, okay, well then you stick with me because
I'm bilingual. She's curious why she's doing what seems like
a British accent because her name's Kate Logan. So I'm like,
that doesn't really feel like a Polish name to me,
but I could be wrong. I'm married to a Logan.
It doesn't feel Polish. But she's curious why the NYPD
sent a detective overseas, and honestly, me too, girl. Sabler's like,

(56:59):
it's be the guy is a particular dirt bag. And
then Kate Logan like shits all over the country, going
no shortage of those here, Welcome to the Czech Republic.
So he wants to know why Europole is after Tacig.
You know, Czech Republic's not even in the EU yet
they actually joined the year after this episode, in May
of two thousand and four.

Speaker 4 (57:18):
Wo yeah, she says.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Europol and Interpol think that Tasig traffics young girls from
Eastern Europe to Germany and Austria, and he fled to
the Czech Republic two years ago and has been getting
into the online game producing and distributing you know, child
sex abuse material, but they can't prove it. She has
a thing for Tasig because they almost caught him and
he slipped away, and she's like, it won't happen again.

Speaker 4 (57:44):
So this is her white whale.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
Okay, Stabler and Logan walk into the office of Mike
Pearson us customs at tashe there have been developments. Last night,
the Czech police jumped the gun and raided Tasig's flat,
So now he and the girl are in the wind.
How did no we were onto him, They're like, well,
Customs in DC traced an email from his ISP to

(58:05):
Samantha Gilligan, who replied the next day, that's me as
little bestie, who must have warned me that the cops
knew about Tasig.

Speaker 5 (58:15):
I still don't know why they would have.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
That would have been a good excuse for them to run,
but what Oh, maybe they thought she's been in touch
with her friend. They're gonna run, So the cops thought
they could beat them, but they didn't. They got away first.
They've released her photo to the media. They'll see if
they get any hits. Logan says, Tasig won't try to
leave the country. He's got too much to lose. And
Stabler's like, what do you mean, he's already got the girl,
and she goes, you need a lesson on the sex

(58:40):
trade in the Czech Republic, my friend.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
So now they're going to take a little walking tour.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
Okay, they're in the Czech border town called Templice, where
Logan is explaining to Stabler that the brothels outnumber the
churches in a place like this. Every week, ten thousand
Germans come to visit sex workers for half the price,
and they can get anything they want. So she's they're
walking down the street. She's pointing to different apartments that

(59:05):
have different colored curtains. She's like, see those pink curtains.
That means that you can get a girl under ten
for thirty minutes. If you have five hundred crowns, which
is seventeen dollars, oh my god, blue yeah, blue curtains
means you get a boy. So they're like some of
the children that are being smuggled are orphans from Romania
and Bulgaria. Tascic isn't the only one profiting off of

(59:26):
selling children. It's like a widespread common practice here. And
as she's telling him all this, like a young an
old man comes walking down the street like with a
young boy with his hand on his shoulders, and it's
like it's just like it could absolutely be a grandfather
at his grandkid. But it's just while you're hearing this,
it's not great imagery. Stabler is immediately getting steamed and
wants to know why doesn't anyone do anything, And she's like, well,

(59:48):
euro A Pole has no authority and the Czech police
have no incentives to stop. There's so much money to
be made with the German tourism. The cops make all
this money giving them tickets, like it's all one hand
shakes the other and all that shit. So she's like,
this is the world, Stabler. I think in your line
of work you'd get it, and he's like, well, in America,
we wouldn't just sit back and take it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:08):
It's like, I mean, what about it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
It's like one rape out of a thousand gets prosecuted
or something like that. But anyway, that's very noble, she says,
But as long as there's demand for this kind of stuff,
there's not much we can do. Obviously, after they joined
the European Union, Europol would have more authority over it.

Speaker 5 (01:00:26):
And I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
It seems like the Czech Republic has become a bigger
tourist destination and I don't hear about it as much
as a sex tourism destination the way I hear about
other countries.

Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
So maybe they've cleaned up their act. I actually do
not know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
So basically, she's like telling Stabler like, yeah, this is
like working at the post office. The mail keeps coming in,
you know what I mean, Like, we can't there's a
demand for this. There's nothing we can do. And he's like,
so then what are you even doing here? And she's like,
I'm doing my job. What are you doing here? And
they're in Greenwich Village but it's they've got a couple
of cars with European license plates, like they're doing their best.

Speaker 4 (01:01:00):
It does look good.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
She gets a phone call and Stabler watches like these
two teen girls get in a car and obviously goes
into like hashtag girl dad mode, and Logan's like, Okay,
we just got a tip and it's not far from here,
let's go. So now they're in a crowded square showing
pictures of Mia to everybody, and a vender says, oh, yeah,
I see her every day she comes to buy chocolate.
She's mostly alone, but she has been once or twice

(01:01:23):
with a man, and I don't think it's her dad
because of the way he kisses her. And he hasn't
seen her today, So they're gonna wait. They've got two
check officers with them too, and now they're all just
in different areas of the square waiting watching. Stabler spots
Mia and she's got her hair all up in a beret.
But you know, he can spot that little Miley look

(01:01:44):
alike from a mile away, and he puts on his
leather OJ gloves and starts following her. She immediately makes
him because he's a fully American looking cop just belining
it for her in the middle of the square. He
can't do anything in a way that's conspicuous.

Speaker 4 (01:01:58):
I'm sure you ordered.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
An eggin she's at the farmer's market, like yeah, just
so culturally burgers.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Yeah, yeah, he can't do anything inconspicuously. I mean right,
So she goes to Eric. She runs over to Eric
and goes I think someone's following me. Stabler starts screaming Mia, Mia,
and then she's like, let's go.

Speaker 4 (01:02:20):
They run. A chase happens.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
We get a shot of Stabler running on cobblestone through
a pack of pigeons.

Speaker 4 (01:02:25):
Very good cinematography. It's very euro I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Stay like like as like, pigeons do not sit and
gather in Manhattan. They only do that in European countries.
Stabler's chasing, yelling at me at a wait.

Speaker 5 (01:02:37):
Wait.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
As Stabler gains on them, Eric just abandons Mia and
runs for himself. And then that's when Stabler grabs mea
and she's crying and protesting and yelling out for Eric,
and Logan catches up and she's pissed. She's like, you know,
like in the next scene, they're at the embassy and
Logan is like leg into Stabler for losing Tossig. She's like,
she was his one reason to stay in the country,
so now he could be anywhere. And she's like, you

(01:03:00):
could have just gone for him, and then we would
have eventually found Mia. And she's kind of right, and
he like, Mia wouldn't have run that far out.

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
Victim comes first.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Yeah, yeah, but she I think Kate would have been
able to catch up to her, Like, if she lost him,
I think she would have been like, eugh, you know,
she seems very dependent on this man.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
Anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
He's like, and then, what just let a kid wander
around a foreign city for a few days.

Speaker 4 (01:03:22):
What about the other child? Did you forget about her?

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
That's what Kate says to Stabler, Like, if we had
to him, we could figure out what's up with this
eight year old girl that is somewhere in the world.
You know, but we've seen this a million times. He
went for Live instead of going for the kid that
lou Diamond Phillips had. You know, we make our choices
on the splits decision, and you know, you got to
stand by your choices.

Speaker 4 (01:03:42):
And he does stand by his choice.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
He says Mia will lead them to Tussig, and Logan's like, dude,
she has Stockholm syndrome. She thinks we're the enemy, and
Stabler's like, I get wire pissed. It's easier to arrest
the bad guy than to deal with the victim. And
that is a critical philosophy of the show that is
like absolutely what the show is, because the other guys
that always come in are like, get the bad guy,
get the bad guy, you get the bad guy, and

(01:04:05):
they're also like, yeah, but you also have to deal
with the victim.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Like even with Getannie Nielsen, it was just like give
her that, you know, like yeah, yeah, yeah, yelling and screaming,
and it's like, no, you don't get to like terrorize kid.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is a corner zone of this
A corner.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Stone of the show, I think is yeah, it's easier
to arrest the bad guy than to deal with the victim,
and that's why so many people want to do homicide
or narcotics or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:04:30):
So now they're talking to me and she wants.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
To leave, obviously, and they're like, babe, you're fourteen, Like
we need to protect you, and she's like, I don't
want your protection, and Stabler throws it at her that
Eric abandoned her and she's like, we're in love. You
guys don't get it. Logan's like he tells that to
a lot of girls. Mia is not buying. She's like
they're like, well, he sells girls for sex, and she's like, Nope,
not buying it. Then they tell her about the pictures

(01:04:55):
and that they know that he drugs her up and
like she does the makeup like subtly looks like this
girl has been like on drugs, you know, like and
she denies it, like and they're like, so you wanted
those pictures taken and put on the internet, and that's
what gets through to her. She's kind of like, wait,
what I didn't know about that. I can't believe that's true.

(01:05:16):
And Stabler's like he won't protect you, so don't protect him.
And then she's really freaking out about the pictures. She's like,
can we get them back? Like nobody has to see them,
and they're like we'll try, and she's like, I just
my mom cannot see those pictures, like and she begs
them and then Stabler's like, I promise we'll destroy them
when they find Eric. I mean, I don't know if
he's fully grasps the concept that nothing on the Internet

(01:05:38):
is ever completely deleted, But does pore so.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
Much of the Internet. Is that principle true even back then?

Speaker 4 (01:05:45):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
I don't know if that if that kind of shits
in the way back machine or whatever, Like I bet
that's a good question. Like back when the Internet was newer,
was it so hard to just once you deleted something
from the Internet?

Speaker 5 (01:05:57):
Wasn't gone?

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Was everything because there wasn't Ai tryling the Internet and
like things being duplicated all the time, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
So I had a Nokia at this point, if yeah,
you know, yeah, I just I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:06:09):
I'm just trying.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Two thousand and three, I was playing Snake on a Nokia. Absolutely,
I was Snake a snake. As I am clicking my tetris,
I'm like sick. I'm truly sick. I'm addicted. So Stabler
promises to destroy these picks and she goes Okay, here's
where she gives up a place where Eric Tossig has

(01:06:31):
a work like a second location that he works out of. Okay,
the cops bust into this apartment and this guy was
pretty confident that she wasn't gonna une hm out because
he is a napping on the couch snug as a bug, okay,
and they bust into this room and this actor is
named Lothe. He is French Canadian okay. He has been

(01:06:51):
in two other svus. One is season one, episode six,
Sophomore Jinks, where he plays a college professor so obsessed
with a student that he stalked and then sexually assaults
after she basically is dead, which is fucking I mean,
the show really popped off in season one, so crazy
we should do that episode. And then season fifteen we

(01:07:11):
just did this episode, Gambler's Fallacy. He's the evil art
dealer who masterminds the whole thing when Rollins is yeah,
when Rollins is like involved with Sondra and he's Sondra's
baby daddy and like all that. So this guy a
real chameleon because I didn't recognize him and we just
did that episode anyway, he is pleasantly surprised that they

(01:07:34):
send an American cop after him, and his accent is
like kind of French, kind of German. It's confusing, and
he accuses America of arresting people around the globe and
claiming terrorism as their excuse, which I'm sure he's correct,
and he starts yelling about police brutality, et cetera. And
then they find a video setup in the back room
and it's filled with VHS videos. This is his hub.

(01:07:56):
This is like his production studio. This is where he
makes all this shit and with his customers.

Speaker 4 (01:08:02):
I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
They find a list quickly of his customers and there's
a ton of them in the US, and Stabler goes
business is booming. So now they're in the Czech prison
interrogation room and it makes cement room bars look like
a white Lotus hotel. Okay, Like this is a scary cave.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
Okay, Yeah, Like they're in like a scary cell that
looks like there's rats.

Speaker 4 (01:08:25):
Like it does not look good.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
They bring in Tacic and he's complaining about human rights
violation by the Czech police and Logan's like, that's not
your problem. You're not in check custody and he claims
to have done nothing wrong, and they're like, you recorded
yourself numerous times having sex with me and Van Wagner
and he's like, so the age of consent here is
fifteen and they're like, well she's fourteen, and he's like, okay,

(01:08:47):
so she lied, Like he's so who cares? And she's
clearly consenting on the tapes, he says, Stabler shows pictures
of me engaging in sexual activity with other men and girls,
and he insists this guy's like, she's adventurous, she loves it.
And then Stabler does a whisper chat like he loves
to do, where he gets rut up in the guy's
ear and he's like, she's a fourteen year old girl

(01:09:09):
that you droged and raped, you know. He does this
little whisper voice, and he's still like, no way, I'm
not a pornographer. And it's like, dude, do you think
they didn't look around and find your full production office
of tapes, like you have over one hundred thousand illegal images,
Like you're not a pornographer?

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Yeah, And then some reason with these guys, it's never
like fifteen. It's always like and he had eight million photos.
It's like, right, I don't know, Like it's just it's
just such wild numbers, always with these pedophiles.

Speaker 4 (01:09:42):
Exactly can never be enough.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
Then, taking a page right out of the Republican Handbook,
he's like, why are you guys so obsessed with children?

Speaker 4 (01:09:50):
That's disgusting, Like just.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
Turning it back, like you guys are so obsessed with
you know, liberals are obsessed with like children, and it's like,
you guys are the ones li literally obsessed with what
genitalia goes into, what bathroom?

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
No one else cares about that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
Stabler's like, dude, you make videos of kids being sexually
assaulted and sell them and we're disgusting. And he claims, oh, well,
I'm trapping these pedophiles. They buy from me so I
can get their identities. I'm doing the police's work. I mean,
this man is swerving. First it's like I'm doing nothing wrong.
Then it's like she likes it. Then it's like, oh,
it's just she's a year off of the age like limit.

(01:10:26):
And then it's oh, I'm actually basically doing copwork, you know.
So he's like, Mia came to me by her own choice,
and I don't expect you guys to get it. So
they show him pictures of the young girl, the eight
year old girl, and they're like who is she and
he's like, I don't know, and they're like, well, you
have fifty pictures of her on your computer. So this
Mariah Carey act isn't gonna fly. And then Stabler elbows
the guy in the face and he falls over in

(01:10:47):
his chair, and it's pretty funny. Again, I don't like
police brutality, but this guy is a heinous pedophile, and
he just goes whap and like gets him right with
an elbow in the face. And Tactic is like, you
can't do this, it's against your law. And then Logan
dismisses the check cop who shuts the cell, and she goes, well,
we're not in America, mister Tassig, clearly implying that Stabler

(01:11:08):
could just kick the shit out of this guy if
he wanted, with zero repercussions, like because they're you know,
there's no cameras on in there. And she tells him
to cooperate and stop this ridiculous performance. He says to Stabler,
you need permission from this bitch, and what you're not
gonna do is insult a female cop in front of Stabler.
So he immediately throat punches this guy and slams him

(01:11:29):
on the table over and over, asking him about the girl,
and he finally gives up, Okay, I've seen her website.
I know her name is Amy, but that's all I know.
Back at the embassy. A tech guy has found the
site and it's called Amy's Little Secret and you need
a password to get on it, and it's twenty nine
to ninety nine. But you buy the password from this
other site, and when you get the password at this

(01:11:52):
other site, you can access multiple sites with that password,
and its adult and child, you know material, And it
shows up on your credit card as a subscription to
a fly fishing magazine. He's already ordered one using the
corporate card. He says, it's like, we don't need to
know how you paid for it and access the site
and it's got pictures of Amy since she was three

(01:12:14):
years old and live webcasts two times a week. Like
this shit makes me like truly sick. And Stabler also
is like about to borrow. He's like, shut it off.
I don't want to see any more of this. So
they find the same email address of Nick Toushai and
what about the company that sells the passwords? They say
they're actually operating out of the US New York state.
Time to head home, Stabler, so that's convenient. He just

(01:12:36):
gets to head back and the crime is also taking
place in his home state, so he walks back into
the precinct and looks pissed to find Bishops sitting there
with his legs kicked up on a desk, and Bishop's
there to take Stabler to the FED building. You won't
believe what you started at Claudia's office. There's a lot
of hustle and bustle. Tastics computers were a treasure trove.

(01:12:57):
They find the information for a company called Private Code
that sells thewords and they're based in Westchester, near where
I grew up.

Speaker 4 (01:13:03):
I had no idea.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
TACIG gets a cut of their profits for up to
twenty five thousand dollars a month. They found fifteen child
sex abuse material sites on Private Codes payroll in three
different countries, totaling four hundred thousand images and who knows
how many subscribers. But it will lead to the producers
of the content, and they're busting seventeen of them in
the Tri State alone right now. So Claudia Williams says,

(01:13:29):
you've opened Pandora's box, Detective, and you know that's that.

Speaker 4 (01:13:33):
So they've got it covered.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
But Claudia thought the boys might want to be there
when they take these bastards down, So they bust into
this suburban home and the most llbeing white couple of
all time are trying to destroy evidence, and the woman
is like, we just sell passwords.

Speaker 4 (01:13:48):
We don't know what people put on their websites.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
And as they cuff these two monsters, Stabler goes, you're saying,
you don't know what the site child dot rape is
all about.

Speaker 4 (01:13:56):
Shut up. He does this like this, like disgusted. Shut
up that he does where he goes shit up.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
So Morales is back now and telling them that this
is bigger than we thought. This company grows fifteen million
dollars last year alone, three hundred thousand subscribers, one hundred
thousand sites with the material on it, twenty countries, and
they keep great records, bank accounts, credit cards, email addresses.

(01:14:23):
They already found sixty in Manhattan, so this is like
a massive, massive bust.

Speaker 4 (01:14:27):
They look up Nick Toushai.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
They can see his name is Nicholas Taylor, but there's
no address but the master and the visa account Bill's
gotta go somewhere.

Speaker 4 (01:14:35):
So now it's nighttime.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
Sailor and Bishop knock on a door and a little
girl answers it's Amy. Sailor's eyes widen. He's so happy.

Speaker 5 (01:14:43):
He found her. She's alive and surviving somehow, he says.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
She says, my dad's upstairs sleeping, and asks like, where's
your policeman clothes? And he shows her his badge, lets
her hold it. She opens the door. Bishop asks Amy, like,
take me to the water. Take me I need a
glass of water.

Speaker 5 (01:14:59):
Take me to the kitchen.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
And then Stabler walks up the stairs, slowly, quietly, gun drawn.
He finds this evil fuck sleeping like a baby in bed.
He puts the gun to this guy's head and like
there's like three seconds where he's like, I could just
shoot this guy in the fucking head. I could just
kill this guy who has been literally not only sexually
assaulting his daughter for years but profiting off of it.

(01:15:24):
And he instead thinks better of it because there's forensics.
They're gonna know he was fucking lying. They're sleeping, and
you shot him at point blank range, and he slams
the gun against the wall, waking the guy up. The
guy so startled immediately he's like, where's my daughter? And
Stabler's like, your daughter, Like you give a fuck, get
your clothes on. So they bring this guy in, but
somehow this guy's in woodroom blinds. I don't know why
the worst pedophile we've seen in a while is in

(01:15:46):
like the nicer interrogation room. His prints were at the
scene of Meredith McGrath's murder and Roger McGrath's murder. His
lawyer's like, all right, let's get cabin in here and
make a deal. And they're like on two murders and
prolonged child abuse. What do you think you're gonna get?
He denies hurting Amy. This guy, he's like Meredith betrayed me.
He says he loves Amy more than Stabler will ever realize.

(01:16:09):
He's like, I won't feel bad about this just because
you say I should. And I was like, fuck, this
is nambla shit, Like I didn't realize that this guy, Like,
I mean, this guy thinks he's in love with his jab.
He's not just like exploiting her. I mean, it's probably
selfishly as well. But he's like, no, we're in love,
Like I'm in love with my child, my baby, Like
and he says, society says I should feel bad, but

(01:16:31):
not that long ago, society said that interracial marriage and
homosexuality were a crime.

Speaker 4 (01:16:35):
And Stabler's heard.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
This pedophiles justification before and the guy's like, I'm not alone.
There are hundreds of thousands of people just like me,
maybe millions, you fhreaks, and they're like, you freaks will
never be alone in prison, and he goes, ever, think
you're the minority, that you're the freaks. You can persecute us,
but we're not going away. We're not playing by your rules,
and nothing you can do will ever change that. And

(01:16:58):
Stabler just like stare that the guy and it's really
haunting because it's like, yeah, we're like what episode was
Downloaded Child with Megan Fahey, I mean like that was
another episode where it was like, yeah, like it's like
ten years later, nothing's changed on this show. And now
it's ten years later than that show and nothing's really changed,
but it's gotten worse because of technology. Yeah, and it's

(01:17:20):
impossible to police it, like so it is fucked up
that online these guys probably convince each other like we're
not actually doing anything wrong, like we just love children,
you know. But uh anyway, final scene, Bishop and Stabler
are having a celebratory drink. Bishop wants to buy one
more round, but Stabler suddenly remembers I have a family

(01:17:40):
and wants to make sure his kids remember.

Speaker 4 (01:17:42):
What he looks like.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
He says, uh, oh, yeah, is your family part of
why you do the job? And he's like, yeah, part
of it, and he goes, Bishop says, I see what
you get out of it. All those guys you put
away won't be able to hurt any more kids, Like,
but you know, it's a tough gig, though, you really
gotta love it, and Stabler goes, no, you've got to
hate it only way you'll be any good at it.
Deep and that's dick wolf baby, Yeah, Stabler knew what

(01:18:08):
he meant.

Speaker 4 (01:18:09):
Yeah, because I hate the job.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
You hate the pedophile like shut up, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:18:13):
Yeah, shut up. Stay there.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
He couldn't even have one nice moment at the end
of the day with this man.

Speaker 4 (01:18:19):
Yeah. Wow, you guys will far more about that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
I'm sure it's not fun what we're about to listen to.

Speaker 4 (01:18:34):
All right. This was based on a lot of crimes and.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
Yeah, I'll just start and some I don't even think
are fully connected, but they were in the wiki and
I researched them. So here we are. Well because it's
so hard, because everything is so interesting. Okay, So the
first one is Susan Tereskwitts, and she was a worker
at the Logan Airport. At the end of each crime,
you'll be like, does it connect? Okay, a new game,

(01:19:00):
A new game with tragedy. A worker at Logan Airport
in Boston was murdered on September thirteen, nineteen ninety two.
She was twenty seven years old. She loved roller skating
and snoopy. We never really get facts about the victims,
and so I'm really happy we got a little flare
of her personality. She was a ramp crew chief for
Northwest Airlines, which is not a thing anymore. They merged

(01:19:23):
with Delta. She was working an overnight shift on Saturday
night on September twelfth, and then she left to go
get sandwiches from the beachmont roast beef for her coworkers,
and she never came back. Susan was found thirty six
hours later, beaten and stabbed to death, and her body
was stuffed into the trunk of her small blue Toyota
Tursell and left outside of an auto repair shop on

(01:19:45):
Route one A in Revere. So the work not rivilla, Yeah,
oh no, I've been to the Rivia Beach Cauntival. That's
why I put all the facts in because I thought
you would oh man. Yeah, well, and this is unsolved,
so I'm putting as many details as I can because
the tip line is still open.

Speaker 4 (01:20:04):
Oh oh god, okay, if anyone is listening.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
So the workers told the Harold that the car was
there when they arrived for their shift that Monday morning.
Her mother, Marlene, did an interview with w b Z
in twenty seventeen, and she thinks that a coworker did
it because she knew about a credit card scam that's
the connection run by some of the other workers. And
her mom believes there was a cover up, and the
Boston Herald said, Marlene thinks it was backed by an

(01:20:28):
organized crime backed operation. Oh no, And it's pretty significant
that none of her coworkers reported her missing. So were
they trying to cover for her like as coworkers do.
Were they afraid of those who were harassing her or
with someone like? Were some aware that what was going
to happen to her? So two fellow Northwest employees, Joseph

(01:20:51):
Nuzzo and Edward Flaherty, would be indicted in federal court
in Boston in January nineteen ninety five on charges of
stealing credit cards from United States It's mail entrusted to
the airline and running a fraud racket with them from
April nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety two. Oh And
Flaherty plied guilty March thirtieth, nineteen ninety five and said

(01:21:12):
he did it to support his cocaine and gambling habit,
which is understandable.

Speaker 4 (01:21:17):
As you do. And then Nuzo.

Speaker 2 (01:21:18):
Pled guilty as well. May twelfth, nineteen ninety five. First
five separate male theft charges, two credit card fraud charges,
and a conspiracy charge, and thirty five people were convicted
on federal charges with their involvement in this scheme, so
it wasn't just those two guys, and all ten of
the baggage handlers charged plied guilty. The court documents from
this case revealed that a bunch of her coworkers had

(01:21:41):
harassed her and feared that she would testify about the
credit card ring to the Boston and this is to
the Boston Heralds that's who reported this. Marlene said there
was no headway in the case for years, and she
was the first one to go to the restaurant to
confirm that Susan never arrived there, like the cops never
even questioned the boys shop place, like it wasn't somewhat

(01:22:02):
like the subspot, like she wants to get rope place,
and no one ever like talked with the restaurant for years,
like that seems so crazy, or to try to get
security camp footage, like I'm just so confused. But the
police didn't track her phone calls either. And then twelve
years later a new mass State Police investigation team took

(01:22:23):
over and the detective lieutenants Joseph Flaherty, I guess a
real popular name, and Bob Murphy, and they try to
finally track down the call, but it's like a little
too late. And then for fifteen of the last twenty
three years, Marlene has stood outside the airport every September
thirteenth and fourteenth holding a sign asking for information. As
of September twenty twenty four, still nobody's been arrested for

(01:22:46):
the crime. There's a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
reward for the information, and the mom has a letter
from Delta saying they would honor the original reward from
like the defunct airlines, So there it is there. And
no matter how small the information, you know, small things
always solve crimes. So it's Suffolk County Detective Unit is
six one seven seven to two seven eight eight one seven.

(01:23:08):
So I think that case is more about the credit
card and schemes and stuff like that. Yeah, that happened
with the you know, the yuppie looking couple at the end,
not yuppie waspy.

Speaker 4 (01:23:21):
Yeah, I forget the I mix, I mix all the
things up. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:23:26):
The next case is Chad McDonald's. So Chad McDonald junior
was a juvenile. This is actually like insane. This is
about I think the safety of informants. Okay and eight Okay,
this is wild. So Chad McDonald's junior was a juvenile
police snitch. The juvenile police snitch should not be a word.

Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
I mean, like a snitch who's like under eighteen a child.

Speaker 4 (01:23:52):
This it's insane.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
So basically he had a nice, you know, balancing life.
So he was a police snitch, but also a drug
added he was a runner and a go between that
used his prize truck for a meth career service. So
if you wanted meth and you were in this area
called ORBA Linda, which is a northwest suburb of Orange County.
You could contact him and you can get meth. And

(01:24:15):
this is according to the La Times. Everyone knew that
high school kids drug dealers. Police, they all knew. So
when a Braya traffic cop pulled McDonald over on a
Tuesday afternoon January sixth, nineteen ninety eight, he told MacDonald
that his name and vehicle were floating around as being
involved in drug dealing and asked if it was true.
He said, he used to be, but like not anymore.

(01:24:36):
But they arrested him. So they arrested him with possession
of ten point nine to nine grams of meth. And
then the cops were like, hey, we'll drop these drug
charges if you turn into a snitch.

Speaker 4 (01:24:46):
And then of course he was found tortured and murdered.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
Oh god, So his girlfriend was raped and shot and
left for dead in the Angel's National Forest and she
was bloody and wandering the wilderness, I mean, shot in
the fucking jaw and lived and the last week of
his life. What led to these events was words circulated
on the streets that he was cooperating with the police.
So he stayed away from home and was like in

(01:25:09):
a motel in Norwalk and made regular visits to a
drug house and hal Court Avenue, And there are arguments
where the family's lawyer, Lloyd Charton, said that he was
going to the house to set up one last deal
for the cops, but the Braya police said they already
dropped him as an informant and were moving forward with
criminal drug possession charges against the youth.

Speaker 4 (01:25:31):
I mean, I don't trust anyone. I don't know what's
going on. But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:25:34):
But while working for the cops though as as an informant,
he never stopped dealing and making money as a drug person,
So like that's kind of an issue.

Speaker 4 (01:25:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
So Justin Wright a former class but he's also a
young teen child, so I don't understand why the police
would ever ask him to do this. Justin Wright, a
former classmate, said he would sit in the passenger seat
of his truck and watch him sell drugs and then
he used that excuse that he was working for the
cops to explain and his mother why he was out
so late. So then he bought meth on January fifteenth

(01:26:05):
from a woman from that house that I mentioned earlier,
Like this drug house and then a few days later
that house was raided. No drugs were found, no arrests
were made, but that woman shows up in February after
telling gang members that he's the one that narked you
know what I mean. And this is according to the
lawyer to the La Times. So then two people pulled
guns on the McDonald's as he denied he was working

(01:26:27):
with the cops, and he like was you know, tried
to live and they let him go and he was
able to go back to the motel and meet up
with his sixteen year old girlfriend and then they went
back to the house to do more drugs. Unfortunately, while partying,
Florence Leila Noriega twenty eight walked up to the girlfriend
and punched her in the face and then turned to

(01:26:48):
Chris and called him a snitch, and then Michael Lucas
Martinez twenty one and Jose al Fredo Ebara nineteen jumped
him and began to beat him. That morning, the girlfriend's
mom called the cops to report her missing. After the
La County Sheriff found her, they called Cindy McDonald to
tell her about her son's girlfriend, but she also had
not heard from her son for five days and then

(01:27:10):
encouraged her to fill out a missing person's report, but
it was too late because his body was found in
a South la alley on March third, nineteen ninety eight.
The three people convicted of the murder were sentenced to
life in prison. You know, it's two men and the
women that I named jose Bara Michael Martinez, Florence Noriega,
the girlfriend eighteen. She fucking testified at the trial and

(01:27:32):
she said she could hear McDonald being strangled in the
living room while she was being detained in the kitchen.

Speaker 5 (01:27:37):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:27:39):
And then this case helped lead to some new California
laws regulating the use of miners as police informants.

Speaker 4 (01:27:46):
What a good idea.

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
The new law requires miners to get their parents to
obtain permission from a judge before they become a police informant,
and they can't be twelve or younger, Oh my god,
thirteen to seventeen. If a judge allows it, they could
do it. But sad, sad case. Wow, really upsetting, and

(01:28:09):
the cops could have helped to It's just like disgusting
because obviously, if we lived in a functional society like
you could just help the team get off drugs. I
put them into a rehab court ordered and not be like,
well you go to prison or you work for us,
Like what to a team?

Speaker 5 (01:28:31):
I know?

Speaker 4 (01:28:33):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
The next case is Alisha cousequits so two thousand and two.
This was one of the first cases in the country
that spotlighted online predators who target young people and garnered
national attention and triggered an FBI manhunt. So, at thirteen
years old, Alisha was lured into a conversation by an
online predator who groomed her for months with like flattery

(01:28:55):
and you know, all the usual stuff before abducting her.
Her brother introduced her to playing game on the internet,
and she was like super excited to play with other people.
She got a screen name, went online, just like normal
stuff of that time. But there wasn't a lot of
education of like what the internet can do. So I
don't think a lot of people were like on guard.
So she started talking to someone who she thought was
just a boy her age, and he listened to everything

(01:29:17):
she said and gave her advice and comforted her for
nine months before the subduction. So January first, two thousand
and two in Pittsburgh, which is crazy to do it
on New Year's Day.

Speaker 4 (01:29:28):
It's like so like the fact this is New Year's
Day is wild.

Speaker 2 (01:29:31):
So she sat with her family eating a traditional Polish
New Year's dinner when she told her mom, like her
stomach hurt and she wanted to go lay down before dessert.

Speaker 4 (01:29:39):
But she didn't go upstairs to her room.

Speaker 2 (01:29:41):
She went out the front door to say a quick
hello to this new friend she knew from the internet.
And this person was waiting in a car park down
the block, and she remembers the silence and the cold,
and her intuition hit her like, wait, I think this
is dangerous and I don't know what I'm doing here,
and I should go back home. But the moment she
turned around to start walking back, she heard her name

(01:30:01):
being called, and then she was snatched into a man's car.
He squeezed her hands so tight it hurts so bad
that and then he told her you better be good
and be quiet, and then she saw handcuffs and ropes
in the backseat. So he was driving and driving. I
mean they even stopped. They stopped at a toll booth
and she's like, okay, this is it, Like someone's gonna
help me. No one helped her, so then she was
feeling a lot of fear terror. Obviously, they drove for

(01:30:23):
like five hours outside of Pittsburgh to Virginia, so that's
crossing of state lines. And then he pulled her out
of the car into the house, dragged her down a
flight of stairs and put her in the basement with
a padlock on the door.

Speaker 4 (01:30:33):
Everyone's fucking nightmare.

Speaker 2 (01:30:35):
He took off all her clothes and so she was
naked and he said this is going to be really
hard for you. It's okay, cry and that's quoted by
the BBC.

Speaker 5 (01:30:46):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (01:30:47):
And then the details are grim for sure.

Speaker 5 (01:30:49):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:30:49):
He put a dog collar on her neck and then
dragged her upstairs to his bedroom and he changed her
to the floor with the collar, and she spent four
days there being raped and tortured by this man. And
she knew she had to be to survive because this
dude already did unspeakable things to her, and you know,
he kidnapped a child, so she knew murder wasn't off
the table. So like, even though she was a young teen,
she did have like instincts for survival, and so she

(01:31:12):
knew she had to behave and like, so on the
fourth day, he said, I'm beginning to like you too much.
Tonight we're going to go for a ride. And this
is in the BBC and then in that moment she
was like, oh, fuck, he's going to kill me. So
and then he fed her for the first time in
four days and then left for work, and she started
to accept her own death. And then she heard like
the sounds of angry men banging on the door downstairs,

(01:31:34):
and her brain was like, oh, they're trying to kill me.
So she rolled under the bed and she stayed quiet.
But it was the FBI. They found my god, thank god.
She was chained, you know, not wearing clothes. She was
like trying to just cover herself up, but they cut
the chain from her let her free. And then when
she was held, the kidnapper broadcast himself abusing her online.

(01:31:55):
So all of this was online and one of the
reviewers recognized the girl from the missing person's poster. So
this pedophile, I guess is a good Samaritan, but like,
my thing is, so he saw the missing person posters,
recognize this girl being abused, contacted the authorities. But who
does he think the other children are? If he didn't

(01:32:16):
see the posters, like you know what I mean, did
he think those kids were volunteers.

Speaker 4 (01:32:20):
It's like so weird.

Speaker 2 (01:32:21):
Yeah, so good for this creep, but like what, thank
god he like got over his own fear of probably
getting prosecuted for being a pedophile. I wonder if he
made a deal, Like I am really curious about that.
So yeah, the greater majority of kids that are rescued
is actually due to missing posters and alerts. So you know,

(01:32:43):
Alicia says, like, please pay attention, pay attention to these things,
because that is how she was saved. And this creep
went to a phone box and called the FBI and
gave them the screen name of the abuser, which then
led the FBI to find his IP address, which led
them to her. And she feels like they the FBI
got there like only she said, like a half hour

(01:33:06):
before he was scheduled to come home. So you know,
she could have been dead, Like we really don't know
what could have happened to her, where this ride could
have been.

Speaker 1 (01:33:15):
So she was and she was with him for like
a total of like four or five days, right, four days.
And she now has a master's degree in forensic psychology,
She's dedicated her her life to educating parents and children
about the dangers of the internet. She tells People Magazine
that it's part of her healing and literally it's about
saving lives. And she's on the speaker circuit, so that's

(01:33:36):
her full time job. She started going into schools giving
presentations starting at fourteen years old. Because she tells the
BBC that people are nuts and sometimes we'll say to
her like, oh my god, you're so lucky.

Speaker 2 (01:33:47):
Oh it was awesome that you were only taking for
four days. I mean, it could have been worse.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
And I was saying four days honestly because I was
like surprised that the FEDS got her so fast, Like
I'm find how quick they worked.

Speaker 2 (01:33:57):
Didn't I didn't think you were, Yes, just to clarify,
no one thought that. But I can imagine people saying
crazy things to her in that way of like oh,
oh you got off easy, and it's like, oh, yeah,
I guess being raped chained for four days as a
breeze like fucking idiots.

Speaker 5 (01:34:13):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:34:15):
No. But the FBI also, I don't think would have
gotten her without this tip. You know, It's like, right,
if this pedophile didn't suddenly have like a stroke of
conscient or what is it? Like, Well, it's like even
like to get to the FEDS, like half the time
to pick a police are like, are you sure she
didn't just run away? You know, like if nobody saw
her get snatched into that car. That's why the New
Year's Day is crazy, Yeah, because it is. Even if

(01:34:36):
it's not like a holiday holiday, it is a holiday,
Like because I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:34:41):
Sure he knew she was Polish.

Speaker 2 (01:34:42):
I mean, I'm not saying that he's like a culturally
intuitive man, but it's like, yeah, she's gonna be with
her family on New Year's Day.

Speaker 4 (01:34:49):
Yeah whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:34:50):
Crazy So and she says even twenty years later, like
the triggers pop up all the time. A roadside can
send her into a panic attack, the sight of a strain,
you're wearing a Pittsburgh Steelers hat, anything like triggers these
horrific memories and this is, you know, decades later, and
it's just something that I think we re emphasized time
and time again about like Trump and the NSVIW does

(01:35:12):
like about the trauma and how it sicks with you.
And then the criminal pedophile rapist. He was thirty eight
year old Scott Tyree. He pled guilty. He was sentenced
to jail and served seventeen years behind bars in North Carolina,
which I don't think is enough. He was also paroled,
which I disagree with.

Speaker 4 (01:35:31):
Then he was.

Speaker 1 (01:35:31):
After holding a child for four days. They were like,
this man can be rehabilitated. Yeah, so they let him out.

Speaker 2 (01:35:38):
They transferred him, Oh my god, to like a house
that was in Pittsburgh, only four miles from Malicia's parents' house.

Speaker 5 (01:35:46):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (01:35:48):
He broke pearole quickly.

Speaker 2 (01:35:49):
Uh, he visited porn sites and a judge revoked his
probation and sentenced him for that parole violation. And he
was sentenced to two more years in twenty nineteen to
be served in Ohio. But I found him in the
Pennsylvania Sex Registry that was updated March twentieth, twenty twenty five,
so recently, and it says he's still incarcerated. So I
know it said he only got two more years, but

(01:36:10):
he is still in prison. So I don't know if
it was an additional charge or like he did something
in prison, or they finally realized he shouldn't be let out. Yeah,
I think he should be in prison for life.

Speaker 4 (01:36:21):
But he is.

Speaker 2 (01:36:22):
He is incarcerated, according to the Pennsylvania Sex Registry in
March twentieth, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 1 (01:36:27):
No, that's life in prison. Like that's like something there's
a wiring problem up there.

Speaker 4 (01:36:34):
That's fucked. Oh my god, that's so scary.

Speaker 1 (01:36:36):
I'm so glad that she was able to, like, I
don't know, help people, help people, yeah, like turn her
story into it's like, I mean, that's what people need
to That is what kids need to hear from. They
need to hear from someone that's like, yeah, I thought
I was just talking to like a cool guy online,
you know, and like it turned into a fucking nightmare.
Like I don't even know how kids are talking to

(01:36:58):
people online anymore. Is just like Instagram or like what
or snapchat people probably.

Speaker 5 (01:37:04):
I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:37:06):
We can't, we can't. I mean, I mean, I just
don't know if.

Speaker 1 (01:37:09):
Like chat rooms are still a thing, you know, I
feel like it has to be more maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:37:12):
Reddit or I don't discord is a word I've been hearing,
So I don't know. Yeah, So the next two cases,
it's they're similar. It's like operation like worldwide operations to
bring down pedophiles. So we have Operation Avalanche and Operation Cathedral.
So Operation Avalanche was and it's so funny every time

(01:37:37):
you read one of these things that's like the world's
largest pedophile ring was brought down. But it's like every year,
constantly forever, like right, So at this point, and I
guess Operation Cathedral was first, I'll do that one first.

Speaker 1 (01:37:51):
Wait, can I also just say one quick thing? That
last story like that happened? What in two thousand and
four you said, yeah, three, Like this girl that my
was in my sister's grade met a predator online and
met him at a swim meet and he molested her
and she wrote a book about it called Katie dot Com.

(01:38:11):
And it was like one of the first times I
ever heard of anything like that. And it was like
in the late nineties that it happened.

Speaker 4 (01:38:19):
Yeah, I mean that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:38:20):
It's like every new technology is overrun by criminals and
sex trade stuff immediately.

Speaker 4 (01:38:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38:30):
The pedophiles are constantly finding new ways to be lunatics
fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:38:35):
Well, yeah, like why do you have to like if
you're that guy, like why are you broadcasting? I don't know,
I just look for like immunity it's like finding other friends.
It's but it's like even the guy. Yeah yeah, yeah,
it's just like, are there any pedophiles out there that

(01:38:58):
are just like doing it and not like recording every
second of it, you know what I mean? It just
feels like such a thing where there's always photos and
video and so much like.

Speaker 2 (01:39:06):
Maybe it's also coding so hard to get a victim.

Speaker 4 (01:39:09):
That like then you want to remember it forever.

Speaker 1 (01:39:11):
I mean, I think it's just creepy, like trophy reliving, right, yeah, yeah,
you're right. And yeah, it's like normal criminal behavior without
any depth. So crazy how there's always like.

Speaker 2 (01:39:23):
They're also sharing. It's what we talk about where it's
like one porn is not enough. They need thousands, they
need thousands. So yeah, let me start. So, Operation Cathedral
was a law enforcement operation across fifteen countries and it
focused on investigating the Wonderland pedophile ring and it resulted
in the largest sever world wise seizure of child pornography
until the next operation the next year. Yeah, I love Okay.

(01:39:45):
So this was in nineteen ninety eight and it started
when detectives were investigating a pedophile ring known as the
Orchid Club, and that was in the United States in
nineteen ninety seven, and that investigations sparked from a nineteen
ninety six rape of an eight year old girl that
was broadcast live and Ronald Reva, the California pedophile rapist,

(01:40:08):
was part of this club and it grew. So then
mona man was traced to the UK named Ian Baldock.
It started like a big thing, So it started in
the US and then eventually was led by the British
National Crime Squad And after seizing this creeps computer, they
found forty two thousand images and links to a much

(01:40:32):
larger international Internet based pedophile ring. And there was one
hundred and forty five male members and not wait, what
is it? Not all men but always a man?

Speaker 6 (01:40:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:40:45):
Is that the nikky quote from her Gloves? Yeah? Weird?

Speaker 2 (01:40:49):
I guess, just one hundred and forty five not all
men in here, okay. So the Wonderland was an invite
only and you're gonna love this, so you're gonna hate it, okay.
But membership was restricted to those who possessed at least
ten thousand, preteen images of illegal child's abuse images, So
you needed ten thousand of your own illegal pedophile porn

(01:41:11):
to get into the club. Oh my god, that's your
entryway unless you could prove that you do so. And
also with Wonderland, the O was made into a zero
to make it harder to find. So in the late
eight nineties, I guess that was high end technology, Like
my fucking internet passwords are harder than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
how many fucking more symbols the week password?

Speaker 4 (01:41:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:41:34):
So September two, nineteen ninety eight, authorities carried out a
coordinated sting and they had to so that, you know,
the pedophiles didn't communicate with each other. So then more
than a quarter million pedophile images were uncovered. This was
and some of this was on floppy discs, compact discs, videotapes,
and so with those numbers, it brought up to seven
hundred and fifty thousand obscene pictures floppy discs for pedophile

(01:41:59):
Like I just ca okay, and unfortunately I will share
this fact.

Speaker 4 (01:42:05):
No one wants to hear it.

Speaker 2 (01:42:06):
But kids is youngest three months and the database of
more than twelve hundred children circulated in our poll. Two
hundred search warrants were issued, one hundred men were arrested
in one hundred and seven coordinator raids across three continents.
This was the largest international police operation mounted against any crime.
But for some reason, the UK has super low sentences

(01:42:27):
for pedophiles. I guess it's because of the royal family.
Like I don't knowh my god, so like at the
time they increased the penalty and the max is still
only ten years. The max used to be three years. Wow,
and that's for distribution. Possession went from six months to
five years, so for distribution of child sex abuse images

(01:42:47):
the max had to be changed to only still ten
years Jesus. The head guy was Peter Giardano, which fuck
you for tainting my pizza. Restaurant was thirty seven at
the time, and his nickname was Harry Mudd And I
guess that was a star Trek thing.

Speaker 4 (01:43:04):
So nerds can be pedophiles too.

Speaker 2 (01:43:07):
And he was a sales clerk for an electronics supply
store and lived with his parents. He was arrested by
US Customs agents at his home in New York. He
pled guilty for distributing child sex abuse images. He admitted
it in Federal District Court in Brooklyn and admitted Wonderland
was named after Alice. In Wonderland, he operated the site
from March ninety seven to ninety eight. And he's only face.

(01:43:29):
He was only facing eleven and a half years. And
I couldn't find anything. I couldn't find him on a registry.
I couldn't find his records in prison. I couldn't find
shit about this guy. I think he changed his name
and I don't know. Yeah, couldn't find an obituary, couldn't
find nothing on this guy.

Speaker 1 (01:43:42):
Wow, Well, if he's an internet guy, maybe he figured
out how to get rid of all that shit about
him too.

Speaker 2 (01:43:48):
Only faced eleven and a half years. Like, I really
don't understand. I really don't understand. So the other operation
which happened after was the world's largest child porn investigation.

Speaker 4 (01:44:01):
That began.

Speaker 2 (01:44:02):
It's Operation Avalanche. It began in the US and the
code name was OA. Avalanche began in ninety nine when
postal inspectors discover that a Fort Worth, Texas company, Landslide Productions, Inc.
Operated and owned by scumbag married couple Thomas and Janis Reedy.
Customers from around the world were paying monthly subscription fees
via post office box a peal box. I don't know

(01:44:22):
why I spelled it all out so the postal Inspectors
and the Dallas ICAAC Task Force teamed together initiated what
would become a child exploitation case of unprecedented magnitude. His
empire included two hundred and fifty thousand subscribers across three
continents and making one point four million dollars a month.

(01:44:44):
And you know what, I bet there are men alive
and well right now that are more pissed that only
fans adult women make that much money a mon than
they are that these pedophiles are. Yeah, for sure, a
tax i just like it just sickens me. So he
realized he can make money by providing the technical know

(01:45:05):
how to allow secure access to porn sites while protecting
the identity of the user. Him and his creep accomplices
built a network of sites and data stores, and even
though it was operating through a quote unquote gateway in Texas,
the material that was being access it was cited around
the world, mostly in Russia and Indonesia. And the big

(01:45:26):
simple piece of the detective work that led officers to
the first arrests were credit card numbers. All the subscribers
had to provide a credit card number so that Redi's
gateway could verify who they were before charging them for
access to five seven hundred sites within the network. He
was found guilty December two thousand of eighty nine charges.
On a Monday, August sixth two thousand and one, a

(01:45:47):
Texas computer consultant, Thomas Redi was jailed for three hundred
and thirty five years. WHOA, Now that's a sentence. That's
what you get for distributing child pornography. But I bet
it's because of the credit cards. Like that's what it is.
It's because of the Yeah, some credit cards, has nothing
to do with like abusing children. So he got yeah once, yeah,
that many years. And then his wife, also part of

(01:46:08):
the operation, was jailed. So fuck Janie and she got
fourteen years in prison.

Speaker 5 (01:46:15):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:46:17):
This was a two year investigation and it was successful
and dismantling the largest commercial child sex abuse image enterprise
ever at that point uncovered and like they took down
Landslide Productions.

Speaker 1 (01:46:28):
But you know, I'm sure there's been like, yeah, fifty
thousand more of these busts ever since. Operation Cathedral seems
a little bit. Cathedrals are like religious buildings, and it
just feels like that's where a lot of pedophilia is happening.
So maybe don't call it that, but operation Avalanche makes
perfect sense, getting bigger, like an avalanche just snowballs bigger

(01:46:49):
and bigger as you go.

Speaker 2 (01:46:50):
Like ugh, yeah, oh my god, it's devastating, it's annoying.
And the loudest people are the ones pretending to care
about this, you know, yeah, like you know, oh, no,
human trafficking. And it's like Matt Gates is truly a
human trafficking pedophile.

Speaker 4 (01:47:07):
No one cares.

Speaker 2 (01:47:09):
I just our presidents as Brett Kavanaugh's rapist.

Speaker 4 (01:47:12):
I mean, no one care. It's from the top.

Speaker 1 (01:47:14):
It's just like it's just like it's like but it's
like adult porn nography is so readily available now, and
I just these are people that are just attracted to children.
And I don't know what we do about that castration.
I'm a big proponent of crass castration. Chemical castration.

Speaker 2 (01:47:33):
Maybe that's what I should ask to go on subway
takes with we need a chemically castrates a pedophiles.

Speaker 1 (01:47:39):
Okay, well, but that episode was harrowing, and but we
did get to see stable or go to fake prague.

Speaker 4 (01:47:46):
Don't go anywhere We've got a great guest.

Speaker 1 (01:47:56):
Our guest today is a prolific film actor who has
played both the boy next door in films like Stella
and Stealing Home, but also a terrifying serial killer in
a film that haunted me as a Clank Family classic
called Copycat. However, you know him best for his very
brief run as Elliott Stabler's new partner, Detective Sam Bishop.

(01:48:16):
Please enjoy our chat with William McNamara.

Speaker 4 (01:48:20):
Well, this happened so long ago, this episode.

Speaker 2 (01:48:22):
Are there things like right off the bat that you
remember that we're exciting some scoop?

Speaker 5 (01:48:29):
Well, it's it's crazy because I was. I. I had
moved back to New York for a couple of years,
and so right when I got there, my agent Quo said, Hey,
that the producers of of v Loder Wander want to
meet with you of like all the law and order
shows that we're in New York whatever that is. And
so I was like, oh great. They said they're interested

(01:48:49):
in possibly, you know, having you on the show. And
I thought it was going to be like a guest star,
like a bad guy, you know, maybe a pedophile or
some kind of criminal, you know, wife beaters, something like that,
and so I went and I met with them and
there's like fifteen people in the room. They were super
nice to me, and and I said, oh, so, what

(01:49:10):
are you guys thinking, Like like a two part guest
star would be great, and they said, oh no, no, no,
we're actually we're thinking about having you come on. The
show isn't a news series regular.

Speaker 4 (01:49:22):
It's wow.

Speaker 5 (01:49:24):
I was shocked. I was like, oh, wow, that's that
would be great. That's not what I was expecting. I
had no idea what the meeting was about. The agent
ever told me. So anyway, they said, yeah, let us
think about it, and let us think of there's something
we could do, and then and then we'll get back
to you. I don't know whatever. You know, you hear
that stuff all the time in the rooms and and

(01:49:46):
then nothing really comes up. But then yes, they called
me and said we have this this thing we want
to do, you know, just off the top six episodes.
And they offered me very little money, which was fine.
They said, you need us more than we need you.
I said whatever. I said, Okay, no worries. And so
I don't know if you guys know this, but I
wonder if I should talk about this, but I don't,

(01:50:07):
you know, I don't think you don't think like Chris
Maloney and Musco harget Tae get along too well? Is that?

Speaker 4 (01:50:14):
Wow? No, we're we're excited to hear that.

Speaker 5 (01:50:16):
I think they do.

Speaker 1 (01:50:17):
Now today they're always like posing in photos together and stuff.
But I think maybe back then it's possible because like this,
this is season four, This is like the beginning of
pretty much the beginning, you.

Speaker 5 (01:50:27):
Know, And I think they wanted to somehow get them
both new partners. Woa, So I became Chris's I was
supposed to become Chris's new partner, transferring from homicide to
Special Victims. Yeah, because our paths crossed, because I was
investigating homicide and our paths cross and I really like

(01:50:48):
su so I was supposed to become a new character
and his partner. Meanwhile, marisk Hain got a new partner too,
which is a guy. Back then I can't remember that
was didn't she get married?

Speaker 2 (01:51:02):
I'll never let her be happy. She can never get married,
they keep on the show. Yes, yes, yes, but her
husband in real life is a lawyer. On the show,
he's not a cop, so okay. But yeah, so it
was something to do with that. Uh that so because
Chris is very abrasive.

Speaker 4 (01:51:23):
Yeah, we've heard.

Speaker 5 (01:51:26):
And he right off the bat just didn't like me immediately,
Oh god, and uh and and made it no, he
wasn't going behind my back and saying he was on
the set all the time saying stuff and just.

Speaker 2 (01:51:39):
That must be hard to work while someone is saying
they don't the making it clear they don't like you.

Speaker 5 (01:51:45):
Yeah, and then and so I think that I think
they made me for all six episodes, which is nice,
but they said, oh it's you know, Chris is so unhappy.
We can't have that. And I think another guy came.
I think they brought another guy and I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:51:56):
Well, well, it's funny because like it actually becomes kind
of a trope on the show where he has to
work with another guy and if they don't start working together,
they're not going to solve the case. And they butt
heads because they have different styles, but they're both rogue
guys that do things march to the beat of their
own drum. And like you're one of those classic guys.
Maybe you're one of the first because you're so early

(01:52:17):
in the episode. But they do that with him many
more times. And he doesn't really ever get another partner
besides her because no.

Speaker 5 (01:52:25):
Because he kept not approving Again that found out later
on they said, we don't worry, Billy, you weren't they
They keep trying and he doesn't approve it to anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:52:35):
And he literally only has another partner for there's actually
even it's a woman. Yeah, but there's also a storyline
where Ice Tea becomes his partner and I and Finn
hates working with him. Finn's like, oh God, I gotta
be partners with this guy, and he requests not to be,
and then he becomes partners with another woman when when
when Mushka Hargete was out on maternity leave, and that's

(01:52:57):
the only time he really ever could have another partner.

Speaker 4 (01:53:01):
Interesting.

Speaker 5 (01:53:02):
So I was a part of that thing, and it
was a very uncomfortable you know, working for like the
week or however many days we show. I can't remember,
it's been so long, but but yeah, so that it
was not a great experience.

Speaker 4 (01:53:14):
Oh I'm sorry to hear that.

Speaker 2 (01:53:15):
I mean, it's so funny because I'm like thrilled to
hear it, Like, yeah, we're really getting dirt. We never
get this kind of information and We're very grateful to you,
but sorry, it was obviously.

Speaker 1 (01:53:25):
Not because you know, the show in twenty The show's
in its twenty sixth season, right, and Marishka has been
there the last fourteen since he left. So the majority
of the guests we have on the podcast are like,
Marishka Hargatee got me my agent, she let me cry
on her shoulder after my mom died. I mean like
she literally is an angel to all these people. And

(01:53:46):
then anyone that has to work more one on one
with Maloney has a little bit more of a reserved
The compliments aren't quite as flowing as I'll say that,
you know, everybody's more like he's good.

Speaker 4 (01:53:57):
He's intense, he's you know. But I didn't get the
sense that I couldn't tell on screen.

Speaker 1 (01:54:02):
I mean maybe it helped the tension of the two
characters being kind of like you know, right.

Speaker 4 (01:54:07):
But now that you.

Speaker 2 (01:54:07):
Say it, it totally makes sense, because it does seem
because you you just disappear mid episode, never to be
heard from, so that it's not like your storyline doesn't
get closed out. It's not like you go back to
homicide you decide it's too much to have living victim.
You know, it was weird, and now this totally makes
sense why you didn't go to Prague or you know,

(01:54:28):
you didn't come he didn't come here, because I continue
with you, it is strange.

Speaker 1 (01:54:32):
I started to write a question, did you feel sad
you didn't get to go to Prague?

Speaker 2 (01:54:36):
And then I googled it and of course they're not
in Prague. They're in Greenwich Village.

Speaker 1 (01:54:39):
The entire time, you did like a one green screen
insert shot on the show of him on a chech
street and that was it.

Speaker 4 (01:54:47):
But so how do you get it together?

Speaker 2 (01:54:50):
Like, let's say you're on set, things are uncomfortable, this
guy doesn't like you. What do you do as an
actor to still perform in that kind of environment.

Speaker 5 (01:54:58):
Well, you just have to deal with it, you know,
he says, to have to assist something. And I was
actually at the time, I was going through a lawsuit
re learning my home in Malibu, so I was also
consumed with this, the situation that was happening in Malibu.
So that was the He was the least of my
worries at the time. So maybe that was a good
thing they didn't get to me because I was you

(01:55:19):
had other stuff going on. Yeah, major stuff concerning a
lot of money, so it was a it was a
minor concern, but it was uncomfortable working with him. He
didn't like anything that I did. And I remember on
one scene when we go to where we'd think the
perpetrator works, but we'd go to the office and there's

(01:55:40):
a receptionist and they don't. You don't really do rehearsals.
They just do a quick blocking and they shoot. There's
no time for rehearsals on these shows. And it's it's
tough for the guest stars because because we were walking
into this, they'll give us every game, so they got
their character is built already. And so I flashed my
badge and I was I was doing it a sort

(01:56:03):
of a takeoff on the best badge flasher in the
world was Steve McQueen in a movie called I think
it's called Bullet, And so I thought, oh, I want
to do the Steve McQueen because he does it really fast.
It's a real fast thing. It's like a second nature.
And so I did that and Maloney stopped for production
and just started screaming at me. He said, don't ever

(01:56:24):
flash your badge on my set. Why Wow, I had.
I had no idea. It was just the whole thing
was it was like that time after time after time
after time. So it was it was shocking. It was
bizarre and so.

Speaker 2 (01:56:38):
And did it seem like the rest of the crew
was kind of used to it or people like what
the fuck?

Speaker 5 (01:56:43):
No, they were used to it.

Speaker 4 (01:56:45):
They were used to it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:56:47):
I was gonna say, maybe he was just having a
bad week or something. But it doesn't sound like it
don't flash a badge on my set. It sounds like
that's not a massive choice, you know, that's like a
very subtle choice.

Speaker 5 (01:56:58):
That's not like Well says that she's the only person
that's allowed to flash the badge on the set.

Speaker 4 (01:57:04):
Okay, so it's like a pissing contest at that point.

Speaker 5 (01:57:07):
That's like silly. And I didn't even know. I was like,
you know, I wasn't trying to do a pissing contest.
I was just trying to do an homage to Steve McQueen.
I wasn't even thinking of him or any.

Speaker 2 (01:57:18):
So, oh, jeez, have you worked with other maniacs? You
have such a long career, you work all the time.
Is the stick out as one of the craziest or
have you been witnessed to other looney moments? Uh?

Speaker 5 (01:57:34):
You know, there's there's there's other there's other situations. I'm
not going to sure.

Speaker 4 (01:57:39):
Name names, William name names.

Speaker 2 (01:57:42):
This is gonna be our highest rated episode of all
times with the information. So carah, Okay, he's in a
family classic. You gotta bring Yeah, you're in.

Speaker 1 (01:57:55):
We have to talk about other movies in your career
because your IMDb was really was really killing me. Like,
first of all, you're in this bet Midler movie called
Stella that is like a classic in my family.

Speaker 5 (01:58:07):
Oh right, yes, yes?

Speaker 1 (01:58:09):
Is that is that like a good experience making that movie?
Or please don't tell me Bette Midler's bad. I can't
hear it. I can't hear it.

Speaker 5 (01:58:15):
Oh no, oh no, she was, she's actually she's amazing.
Actually I have to give her kudos. I had a
small role in the movie and she was warming. He
was in New York City and she she said, if
you ever want to, you know, come see any of
my shows, let me know. And so I was in

(01:58:37):
New York City and she was doing some live showing.
I can't know what it was. This is after Stella,
And so I didn't have her number, and so I
called the box office said, oh, Billy mc milla said
to you know, if everon's looking for something, you know,
because oh, we'll give her the message. And I never
thought and whenever, I never thought i'd hear back. And

(01:58:59):
now we're laying my phone. Oh hey, Billy, I worked
took that and yeah you're come on down. Yeah, VIP,
come on down. It's like I couldn't believe it. Wow,
you got it was like her.

Speaker 1 (01:59:11):
It was like her doing like a cabaret type thing,
like singing.

Speaker 5 (01:59:14):
And I can't remember what it was.

Speaker 4 (01:59:17):
Oh, man, that's so cool. She's like my ultimate.

Speaker 1 (01:59:20):
I was obsessed with her as a child, so I'd
seen her whole catalog. And then famously in the movie Stella,
she's like a bad mom and she has a birthday
party for her daughter and forgets to send the invitation
so nobody shows up. So anytime in my life where
I'm having a party and I'm waiting for people to
come over, I'm always like, I hope this doesn't turn
into a Stella situation.

Speaker 4 (01:59:39):
So it's a it's just a big part of my life.

Speaker 1 (01:59:41):
But also the movie Copycat, I can understand why you
thought when you did Law and Order SVU that you
were going to be a a murderer or a villain
because you play this murderer in this movie Copycat, which
used to give me nightmares. All Star casts, Sigourney Weaver,
ally Hunter, you, Harry Connick Junior. I used to have

(02:00:04):
to close my closet doors in my room because I
thought that you guys were in my closets. So excellent job,
excellent job, terrifying young teens, right.

Speaker 4 (02:00:16):
But geez, like, hey, I want to watch Harry movies.

Speaker 1 (02:00:20):
You should watch Copycat because it's all about serial killers
and like it's really and you have like you're you're
scary in it because you have this like handsome, clean
shaven face.

Speaker 4 (02:00:30):
You don't, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:00:32):
I ever, my dad used to always say to me
Ted Bundy didn't look like the wolf man, you know,
like you didn't, you know, like you can't trust what
people like. You can't judge a book by its cover,
of course, but like you don't look you look like
a little nice guy, and then you're out here murdering people.

Speaker 4 (02:00:47):
And that's right.

Speaker 2 (02:00:49):
That movie is just so terrifying and oh, good job.
Stories from shooting that it starts studded.

Speaker 5 (02:00:57):
That that's an interesting story of all around. It was weird.

Speaker 6 (02:01:02):
You know.

Speaker 5 (02:01:02):
I started my career with the movie Jodie Foster called
Stealing Home, Yeah, which hugely yeah, iconic. But I played
the boy next door, the nice boy next door. So
for years that was my entrede to Hollywood. So for
years I got those kinds of roles. Hence the bet
Midler movie. I was the nice boyfriend. Ben Stiller was

(02:01:24):
the bad boyfriend. I played the good guy, and she
ends up mirroring ben Stiller is the bad guy. So
I played all those roles, which aren't that interesting. I'd
rather play Ben Stiller role, to be honest with you,
in that movie, I'd rather be himmed so when I
wasn't so because of Stealing Home, and so for years,
my agent kept trying to get me in on more
edgier roles you know, that have more challenge to them.

(02:01:47):
And the cast trajection was said, oh no, no, Philly's
too soft, you can't play that role. So I had
that for years, and then out of the blue, the
director wanted me to. I met with the director John
Emeial for Copycat. I read the script and I thought
I was meeting for the dermomt Maulrooney role, the detective partner,

(02:02:09):
the Hunter's partner. That would be the appropriate role for me.
That's all I wanted. I've never never because I've been
told for so many years I'm soft. I'm a soft actor,
so for years and so when and the director didn't
mention any moles, I didn't have to read any scenes
for him. He didn't want me to read anything, just
want to talk. So I assume I was for the

(02:02:32):
detective partner. And a week later my agent called and
said he's interested in for the movie. I said, oh,
great to play Holly Hunter's partner. Be great to play
her partner, you know. He said, no, they want you
for the serial killer. I was like, serial killer, I
don't understand. So I was actually very timid about that

(02:02:54):
and thought about not doing it, really just because I
didn't think well, because I was convinced I've been programs
and that I was a soft actor and I had
no edge. So that was my fears, like, well, everybody
told tell you this, it must be true, so I
can't do this role. And so my agent convinced me
to do it, and I did obviously, So there you

(02:03:16):
have it, and I did it. You know, a pretty
good job because people and I'll tell you something a
side note from the movie in La in New York
to look in both places. I did very well with
the young ladies. I was always doing well. And I
can meet a girl and within ten minutes have her
phone number and we'll get and we have a date

(02:03:37):
plan every time. And so all of a sudden and
I see a therapist. I see this very famous therapist,
and now I heard him is Pat Allen. She's not around,
but offic surrounding books, very famous, lots of books, and
she's a phenomenal therapist. And so all of a sudden,
I'm doing the billy back charisma charm the phone number.

(02:04:01):
And the girl's like, I don't know, there's something off
about you. I don't know what it is, but I
don't feel comforting in my number. And it was happening
so often that I told my facord place is said
beat the kick, no girls will We'll go out with
the kid getting phone numbers two or three a day
for the last three years and now I can't get

(02:04:24):
a date. And she said, huh, do you think it
has anything to do with the movie Copycat. I'm like,
what do you mean, Well, I saw the movie, and
they don't really they don't really let people know in
the advertising that you're the killer. Everybody thinks it's Harry
Connick Junior, which is true. That was part of their

(02:04:46):
advertising campaign. And you are very creepy in that movie.
I was even disturbed, and I thought, okay, so soil
next time this happens, maybe they don't recognize you from
the movie because you're not prominently displayed. Your name is
not over but you know, and and so you're almost

(02:05:07):
like a subtle, subtlety in the movie, subconscious thing. She's
a genius, this one, pat Oland, by the way, And
she said, so the next time this happens, you might
want to ask the girl if she's.

Speaker 4 (02:05:19):
Seen the movie copy Cat by any chance.

Speaker 5 (02:05:23):
And guess what. She was right, Wow. Next time I
tried it, the girl's like, I don't know, there's something.
Don't feel crypto game my number. I'm sorry. I so
wait a minute, hold on, have you ever seen a
movie called copy Cat? She goes, oh yeah, God, that
movie scared me. I said, you remember the serial Killer?
And they all this happened multiple times. Harry Connock junior.
I'm like, no, Harry Connick juniors in jail, He's not the.

Speaker 4 (02:05:46):
Serial, you're the copy cat.

Speaker 5 (02:05:49):
And she's like, oh right, oh it was me right,
Oh here's.

Speaker 1 (02:05:56):
My note okay, And they're like, all right, you're you're normal,
I mean, and that's really funny.

Speaker 2 (02:06:03):
She started getting numbers again. I did, Yeah, figured it out.

Speaker 1 (02:06:08):
You would have you would have been like alone forever
just thinking it was you.

Speaker 4 (02:06:14):
You lost your magic.

Speaker 2 (02:06:15):
Well, because I always say, my mom's like that, if
you play a bad guy in a movie, she can
never look at you again, like she's scared of you.
She's not a fan, and she thinks you're bad. She
like can't get over it.

Speaker 5 (02:06:25):
Do you know what's funny you bring that up? I
worked with Luise Fletcher I believe her name was. I
did an episode of TV with her, great, a great show.
I can't know the name of it, but but it
was a great show. She's a great actress. Luise Flecker
if you look her up, I think that's the right name. Yes,
she played she played nurse Ratchet, Yes in One Over Ye.

Speaker 4 (02:06:46):
And she's a beautiful woman. But like that's her rep now, right, and.

Speaker 5 (02:06:49):
She I think she was nominated. I'm not sure, but
I think she hardly ever worked again except for little
episodic stuff. When she was she was she won an
Academy Award. She won an Academy a Ward and never
got another movie part again because she was so hated
in that movie. She did her role so well. And
by the way, when we talk about Stella, Barbara Stanwick

(02:07:11):
was in the original spella. You remember, you know who,
Barbara Stanton. You know the name, Yeah, Barbara Stanwick. Very
famous TV actor. She was on some TV series for years,
Barbara Stanwick. So Barbara Stanwick was always last choice in Hollywood.
After all the beautiful movie star women would turn her
down the road and let's just give it to Bark.

(02:07:32):
Nobody likes her, but let's just give her the role
because we're under contract. And every time they did that,
Barbara Stanwick was an Academy Award. They still say, oh,
I don't want to use barber stand Let's try anybody
but her, And then all of a sudden, well I
turned it down, Let's do Barbara and Stella Dallas was
a movie she wanted an Academy Award for it. She
was last choice. Every other female movie star turned down Stella.

Speaker 4 (02:07:54):
And she was in the thorn birds and stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:07:55):
Wow, okay, grumble and interesting thing, A lot of facts,
so I was more old Hollywood facts.

Speaker 5 (02:08:04):
Sorry, I am old.

Speaker 2 (02:08:05):
I'm like, I am dbating everything. I'm like wanting to know.
This is so cool.

Speaker 1 (02:08:10):
So well, I wanted to ask you a little bit
about Obviously, in researching for this interview, I went to
your Instagram and I saw that you were like super
involved in the in the fires. I live in La too,
so I was here for all of that, and I'm
on the east side, so I left town because I
lost power, But I wasn't remotely as close to all
of the devastation as you were. But you were in

(02:08:33):
the press and stuff for rescuing all these animals, which
I just have to highlight it because we have just
a very big animal loving audience, and I just think
that that's going to make them love you even more
than these fun stories you've told us. What I mean,
from what I was gathering, it was like you were
you were like breaking into areas that were closed off

(02:08:55):
so that you could like get footage and help animals
and be like a real life souper hero. Like what
was going on.

Speaker 5 (02:09:02):
Well, you know I had experienced because I was in
the wolves. I did the same thing in the Woolsey fires,
and unfortunately in those fires, I got almost arrested. And
it was you know, I was contacted by state investigators
because I ran and this is back in the Malibu fires,
the Wolsey fires. Yeah, there was a horse horse sanctuary
in Korral Canyon where they got most of the horses

(02:09:22):
up and then left to you behond. So I went
in there. I rented a pickup truck affod F one fifty,
it's a trailer. And the barricades were up and I
told the people I'm going to get those two horse sets. Say, oh,
you'll never get them out, bully, because you'll never get
past the police barricades. And there's a lot of them,
and and so.

Speaker 4 (02:09:41):
But I did you just talked your way through them
or what.

Speaker 6 (02:09:46):
I mean?

Speaker 5 (02:09:46):
Some were talking, some were running ess barriers, wow, and
and so and and when I got to the final
barrier in Korral Canyon, there was only one sheriff guarding
and and I was driving into the fire. So I
knew that if I crashed through the barrier, there is
no way he's going to follow me, because it's smoken fires,

(02:10:08):
it's certain death. And he didn't. And when I got
back down, he was gone because the fire. Everybody was
gone because the fire came down the hill.

Speaker 1 (02:10:18):
And these two horses came with you, and it was
like you just floaded a long start.

Speaker 5 (02:10:23):
Yes, I got the horses and we got the horses out. Yes,
So I know about the fires. So when these fires started,
just recently, the Palistates fires, I could see the fire,
by the way, the same same kitchen for the Woolsey fires.
At my kitchen window when I'm doing dishes, I saw
a giant ful of smoke, look like a mushroom cloud.

(02:10:44):
That's the Woolsey fires. That's why I said, oh my god,
I only had a pria, so I ran to Enterprise
on seventeenth and in Santa Monica went to the truck
right away, broke into the Woolsey fires. Same thing, Palistates fires.
And in the kitchen nine in the morning, just doing dishes,
I look up.

Speaker 6 (02:11:02):
You're like, this keeps happening. Oh my god, another mushroom
clown of flood. Wow, that can't be what's going on?
This is whre anybody knew about the fires. This before
the frost and the place or anywhere. So I drove
boards where I thought the fire was. I thought it
was maybe on.

Speaker 5 (02:11:17):
Montana because how close up Li, but it wasn't. So
then I went up to SABACTI wasn't there. So then
I went up to Sunset. It wasn't there either, but
I could see it. It was in the hills behind.
It was just starting off. But they had the big
Super Scoopers, So I thought to myself, Oh, they got
the Super Scoopers right away. They didn't have that in
the Moulsey fires. So I thought, this is under control.

(02:11:38):
I'll just do some video of the plane's flying. So
it was a good, you know, good video of these
planes flying in and dropping where. I thought that was
cool and I was just gonna go home and thought
they got it into control. But as I'm watching it,
I see the fires are kind of spreading. No matter
how many helicopters and airplanes they were, the fires kept spreading.

Speaker 4 (02:11:56):
Yeah, because the wave was insane, and.

Speaker 5 (02:11:59):
I aren't seeing on sunset thousands of people coming out
of Palisades and coming out of the Palisades heading east,
thousands cars just cars like and they're panicking and no
cars going in, so I thought, but that's not good.
I'm gonna I was worried because I thought the police

(02:12:20):
are going to put up barricades any minute now, for sure.
I know. I learned that lesson the hard way. Unfortunately,
almost went to jail for it. So I'm better get
in there before the police come and set the barricades up,
because they are that's coming any minute now. To get
the firemen in there, obviously, and so and I thought,
you know what, people are going to be at work.
They're going to be locked out. They're not no case what,

(02:12:41):
let I'm back in, So I better go and start
knocking on doors and looking for animals pets left behind.

Speaker 4 (02:12:47):
That's right, because that was one of the videos you
saw that.

Speaker 1 (02:12:49):
I was like, yeah, that's probably what people don't realize,
is that like people are like, oh, they just ran
and they left their pets. It's like, no, they were
at work when they started and they couldn't get home
to their pets.

Speaker 5 (02:12:58):
You know, that's right. It was ten thirty in the morning.
Everybody's at work by ten ye nine or ten, so
when the police shut it off, they will not let
you in. You know, whatever, you say to it, they
just won't do it. They're just it's not a good thing,
by the way. So so I went in there, and
that's why I went in. I went in for the
police barricades and I started running through the I parked
my car in Palisades Village. I thought, Oh, the fire

(02:13:20):
will never come to the village. That's wrong. Yeah, And
so I parked my car and then I started running
into the neighborhoods, banging on doors, looking in the windows,
trying to and then I would see fires start, so
I'd run down, I'd tell I'd tell a fire. There
were firemen, not a lot, It's sparsely around. So I said, hey,
there's a new there's a there's a small fire by
the house. There's little fires that start spot fires. Yeah,

(02:13:43):
And so I would alert them to it, and the
fire would come up with the spot fire. And in fact,
I got a lot of uh messages on Instagram from
people in that neighborhood and they said, thank you you
saved our house. We saw you on our neighbors camp.
Why that was?

Speaker 4 (02:14:04):
That was?

Speaker 5 (02:14:04):
And it was and they said, we noticed the name,
recognized the houses you were in front of on your Instagram,
So I was posting them as I was doing them,
and they said, you, if it wasn't for you, that
spot fire would have caught her house on fire, and
so all the houses. I saved about seven houses from
catching on fire by alerting the file. Wow. And then
I went to windows and so that's how the whole

(02:14:26):
thing began. And I thought, oh, this will be over soon.
This will be over soon, because you know, they get
the hell the airplanes were flying right over. I thought,
this is great, they're here. It's not gonna it's not
gonna spread. And it did. And I ended up staying
there for like probably thirty hours until I had to
walk out because I got trapped on pH in Sunset.

Speaker 4 (02:14:48):
And you abandoned your car.

Speaker 5 (02:14:50):
Yeah, the tires were melting. Oh my god, ay yea yie. Yeah,
well it was.

Speaker 4 (02:14:57):
It's been a tough it's been a tough.

Speaker 5 (02:14:59):
Time in LA.

Speaker 4 (02:15:01):
But you have a you have a you have a
movie that.

Speaker 1 (02:15:04):
Came out like a week ago or something, right, gun
Slingers with uh.

Speaker 5 (02:15:08):
Oh, Gunslingers with Cage and Stephen Doorf. Yes, that's correct, Yes,
the Cage, Stephen Doorf and Gunslingers. I haven't seen it.
And they asked me to come to the screening and
stuff like that of it last week whenever. But I
had a terrible story there. I'm not contend the whole thing,
but I'm shot in Kentucky. Uh huh and uh and
and my dog who's the love of my life died

(02:15:30):
on the set Kentucky. Yeah, and so I just didn't
want to see anything. And there, you know, they I
didn't want to see the set. I didn't want to
see anything. I don't have anything to do with that mom,
because it was a really bad. It was a really
bad experience. And uh, she was struggling, which is why
I had to drive her from LA to Kentucky because

(02:15:51):
I wonder with me and I couldn't fly because she
was having seizures. Yeah, and she's a big dog. She's
a big pit bull. And she stars in a TV
series that I wilt and directed. She's the star of
this show called The Trouble with Billy and she is
the heart of the show. And now she's passed away.
So like it's it's like a and she passed in Kentucky.

(02:16:13):
So and it was a really miserable situation what happened.
So I just yeah, it's like, don't.

Speaker 4 (02:16:19):
Do many bad memories.

Speaker 2 (02:16:20):
But I guess if other people can go see it
and see your work, Oh yes, absolutely. What do you
have other projects that are coming up that you want
to let people know about it?

Speaker 5 (02:16:33):
That's funny. Yeah, I think it's today the twenty second, Yeah,
twenty second. So yeah, I've got a thing that starts
streaming today, I believe. I can't know where, but it's
called Healing Towers. It's a horror movie and it's actually
pretty good healings. Yeah, and it's a real interesting story.
It's a doctor. I've been the doctor, a psychiatrist who

(02:16:54):
develops this therapy that cures people of their past trauma.
Well he doesn't, but does it? What does it?

Speaker 3 (02:17:05):
Is?

Speaker 5 (02:17:06):
You get to the therapist hires or abducts these actors
who portrayed the father that abused you or the mother
that you missed.

Speaker 4 (02:17:16):
Don't tell me. I'm going to watch it. Stop.

Speaker 5 (02:17:19):
Yeah, I'm in.

Speaker 4 (02:17:20):
Andrew Keegan's in it. I'm in.

Speaker 5 (02:17:23):
Oh yeah, Andrew Keagan. That's right. So it is. It's
a it's a it's an interesting premise and it's you know,
it's lower budget, but they did a great job.

Speaker 4 (02:17:31):
I was very impressed, so excited. That's right up our alley.

Speaker 1 (02:17:36):
Yeah, I mean a low bunch of horror movies are
like what's getting made these days, you know, like that's
the that's right, But that's cool, Okay, So Healing Towers.

Speaker 5 (02:17:45):
And then the other show is by show called The
Trouble with Billy. Okay, I'll send you guys the trailer
for it. So we have all ten episodes are done.
We're in the process of selling it now, okay, and
we're going through a lot of legal stuff clearances. So
I shot this whole thing put quickly on a lower budget,

(02:18:05):
and I didn't get all my pick work done. I
had the wrong contract to SAG, so I had to
upgrade the contract. Then I get all one hundred and
fifty actors to approve of the upgrade, which is actually
better for them. It's way better insiduals. But actors are
very difficult people, yeah, and they don't want to help me.
So I'm going through a lot of issues with that,

(02:18:26):
and so a lot of locations agreements I didn't get.
They're all friends of mine, let me use their house
or their their restaurant, And so now I have to
get all those things for these where we've gotten a
few offers already, but when their legal department looks through
our stuff, we're like, hey, there's too much liability here,
so you have to go out and do all this paperwork.

(02:18:47):
So we've been plung up in that for six months.

Speaker 4 (02:18:50):
Ah ya yay, not contracts.

Speaker 5 (02:18:53):
Yeah, but it's a great show. You'll see the trailer.
It's pretty good. Everybody loves it so far.

Speaker 1 (02:18:58):
So hey, you got Billy Baldwin in there, you got
U s v Alum, Tom Sizemore.

Speaker 5 (02:19:07):
Yeah, Robert Wagner, Angus McFadden.

Speaker 2 (02:19:14):
Jake Jake and your beautiful dog and twinky Dog Twinkie. Well,
I mean thrilled for the gossip. You know, we we
want to encourage this for more of our guests. Yeah,
we gotta break.

Speaker 4 (02:19:32):
We have to weird.

Speaker 2 (02:19:33):
You don't have to be positive. And you know, bringing
up Steph. I saw Seph and, you know, revealing to
her that people don't really love Maloney. She was kind
of shocked. She didn't realize.

Speaker 4 (02:19:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:19:45):
I think that it's just also so glaring because people
so love Marishka, like she seems so warm, and I
think he's probably a little bit more like show up,
get your work done, get out of here, you know,
like she was shosh because he is so funny, and
I wonder if it's just like a work thing.

Speaker 4 (02:19:59):
And then like maybe out in about he's more chill,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (02:20:03):
But he's just a thespian who takes himself seriously, because
what was so funny and like Harold and Kumar where
it's like he's so.

Speaker 1 (02:20:11):
Funny when but I think it's just because he takes
acting really seriously. So if the job is being funny,
he's funny. If the job is being serious, he's fucking
up in your face about to kiss you, accusing you
of rape. You know, like he's takes it really serious.
But in real life I think he takes himself really
seriously too. Like my friend just interviewed him and was like,
I forgot how seriously he takes himself like he does,

(02:20:31):
you know. I mean again, Chris, we welcome you on
the pod. We'd love you to come on. Well, he'll
take your craft very seriously. But we you know his
people don't, I guess don't really believe in podcasts.

Speaker 2 (02:20:44):
No, yeah, I mean the thing with Williams too, Like
I can't imagine thinking I'm about to be a serious
regular on like a Dick Wolf Law and Order. My
life's about to change. I'm gonna make millions of dollars
for the rest of my life. And this guy's just like,
get the fuck off. I set you know. That would
be tough. That would be tough because I've been in

(02:21:05):
that situation in terms of like when you sign the
contract for your screen tests, when you like when it's
between you and a few people and you have to
agree to all these terms and you don't get it,
but you see what you could have gotten.

Speaker 4 (02:21:18):
It is tough. It's it's the worst.

Speaker 1 (02:21:21):
It's kind of why after every audition you have to
just completely erase it from your mind, and then if
something comes is good, you're like, oh wow.

Speaker 4 (02:21:29):
What a surprise. It's I've been the opposite.

Speaker 2 (02:21:32):
I think I keep sending in such good I'm like
not even I'm like, what is going on?

Speaker 4 (02:21:37):
Yeah, but I get it.

Speaker 5 (02:21:38):
I get it.

Speaker 4 (02:21:39):
It's a bigger picture. It's all part of a bigger picture.

Speaker 1 (02:21:43):
I always say, like, somebody could be you could be
sending something in for this, and they're going to think
of you in four fucking.

Speaker 4 (02:21:48):
Years for something practice.

Speaker 2 (02:21:50):
It's all part of the school because I didn't go
to like theater school, right, So every audition I work
with my acting teacher, to me is like a class
in college.

Speaker 4 (02:21:59):
You know, we're working on something.

Speaker 2 (02:22:01):
I'm challenging something like to me, it's like education. But yeah,
there's there is desperation, there's I can't lie like yeah, no, no, you.

Speaker 4 (02:22:16):
Want it.

Speaker 2 (02:22:16):
But yeah, I just enjoyed this interview. And I love
this episode. It's famous for us. I mean it's the
Czech Republic episode.

Speaker 1 (02:22:24):
It's the Stabler goes to Europe episode, and I do
love it. It's very terrifying, like at the end that
this guy is just like we're everywhere. You're never going
to get rid of us, Like about pedophiles, like that's.

Speaker 2 (02:22:41):
The pedals are everywhere, Like men are pedophiles. I don't know,
there's it's not a new theory, but it's like all
like most of beauty's standards for women that are extreme
are based on teens, you know.

Speaker 4 (02:22:53):
That's why.

Speaker 2 (02:22:54):
Yeah, you know they like porn stars at eighteen, and
it is it is just what it is. Like I
think men are you know, Casey's a pedophile. No, I
think men are innately pedophiles that has proven otherwise, Like,
I don't know, it just seems tough, like it's not shocked,

(02:23:14):
like it's a scary episode. But you know, if you're
a listener of this podcast from day one, I don't
think you're really shocked by this information.

Speaker 4 (02:23:21):
Unfortunately.

Speaker 1 (02:23:23):
Yeah, and it like I do, I do think it's
interesting that it's like it's basically one time in the
whole history of the show that they even explore what
other countries. I mean, they maybe they sometimes are like
we got to go to Canada, They're going to cross
to Canada, or we've done like a little Canada, but

(02:23:43):
like in terms of what other countries, like how dire
the situation is in other countries visa the you know trafficking,
sex trafficking and you know, forced forced prostitution and stuff.
So it's, uh, you know, it's definitely one of those
episodes that people, I'm sure like scares parents, like never

(02:24:05):
let your kids on AOL ever. Again, that's a very
taken you know taken Yeah, very the Big Room, the Billionaire. Yeah,
it's just like and we always talk about like you
need have so many skills to be a successful pedophile,
like you can't just be casual about it.

Speaker 2 (02:24:21):
You need to get into high tech security, right, yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (02:24:27):
Yeah, I don't really know what the the well, you
know what I was gonna say. It's like, not only
do the pedophiles need to be the awesome at the Internet,
but it's like from a million miles away, you have
to find these girls, these kids that do feel like
something is you have to and then like romance them
and make them feel like, yeah, you're gonna love your
life in the Czech Republic. Let's just get you a passport,

(02:24:48):
leave your family and your friends behind.

Speaker 2 (02:24:50):
Like it's just fucking terrify waste energy to grooming.

Speaker 4 (02:24:56):
Grooming.

Speaker 2 (02:24:57):
Yeah, and like that one secret society you need to
one thousand of your own pedophile images to get.

Speaker 4 (02:25:03):
Into the god oh my god.

Speaker 2 (02:25:05):
Yeah yeah, oh y for the super Pedophile Convention.

Speaker 4 (02:25:10):
It's like it's really it's really I mean it is.

Speaker 1 (02:25:14):
Like we've talked about this on this podcast before, but
it's kind of like what what where do we stand?
And I'm asking myself because I don't know on like
AI generated or like fake child sex abuse images that
at least no real children are being harmed in like

(02:25:34):
the production of them. I'm just like, will AI help
in this way or will just encourage grosser behavior?

Speaker 4 (02:25:40):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:25:42):
Yeah, I wish I wish everyone in the world had
seen Companion. I'm gonna say I'm gonna say one thing.
I don't think it ruins the movie. It's like an
interesting movie either way. But you know, it's like these
women are robots. Okay, so it's like these robot women
and you know that if you watch a trailer, but
you find out like like some people get them to

(02:26:03):
torture them oh on purpose? Oh yeah, yeah, they like
get the and then you can and then so it's
like the but we should eliminate these people from society
that want to torture. I'm anti death penalty, but they
should be castrated and eliminated the chance because if it
because if they have the opportunity.

Speaker 4 (02:26:22):
They'll do it.

Speaker 2 (02:26:24):
Yeah, you know that's the thing. If they like that,
you can only keep it.

Speaker 1 (02:26:28):
Escalation is real, like obviously, you know, like you're not
just gonna be happy with like like you know, AI
images forever, You're revenge.

Speaker 2 (02:26:36):
Maybe if this Companion, But it's like I don't want
these people walking around. I don't want them being employed
because okay, fine, you're you're watching AI sex abuse, and
then you're a principle. Then you're like a postman, like
then you're what if a kid's in a yard?

Speaker 4 (02:26:53):
Like it's just like these people are in society.

Speaker 2 (02:26:55):
So that's what I don't Wantah, if we're talking safety,
but then we talk are we at the movie Minority
Report at this point?

Speaker 4 (02:27:02):
And are we doing thought criminals?

Speaker 2 (02:27:04):
Are we like arresting people before they do anything like
and Thought an episode of the show. So I don't know,
and I think this would be interesting. There should be
a panel and we should be invited. We are experts.
I just don't feel like people respect us enough, Like
why haven't we been on a panel?

Speaker 4 (02:27:22):
Not one panel? Not one panel.

Speaker 2 (02:27:26):
We're here, we're researching, we're chatting. I mean to not read,
to get us out like I can't. But I don't delightful.
I just don't like AI at all because now I'm
just in a world where, like someone sends me a
cute monkey, I'm like, it's not real.

Speaker 4 (02:27:42):
I don't think it's real. And then I'll see something.

Speaker 2 (02:27:45):
Where I'm like, wow, we're raccoon writing a crocodile. I
love it, and everyone's like, this is obviously AI. I go, well,
I didn't think so.

Speaker 4 (02:27:51):
Listen.

Speaker 1 (02:27:52):
I shared the junk box AI of the obviously the
entire cast of SVU as babies. I felt people needed
to see baby. They needed to see baby Kragan. I'm
anti chat GBT. We have to, but I'm not your hit.
I don't use it. I'm not using it like going
on to chat GPT and getting you know, oh, I.

Speaker 2 (02:28:11):
Don't even know how to get on it. Im I've
turned everything off. I am so against I think I don't.
I'm against everything. I guess I'm a pretty opinion and
I was like, I've never been more against something in
my life.

Speaker 4 (02:28:20):
Not true, but I'm like so against a I in
my bones. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:28:24):
No, it's it's like every time you go on and
just say, uh, make a poster of me as Superman
or whatever, it's like it's hurting the environment. I still
don't get how, and you guys don't have to message me.
I know that it has to do with like computers
and servers and stuff like that in theirrind, but it's
like it's bad for the environment.

Speaker 4 (02:28:44):
It's making so much crap.

Speaker 1 (02:28:46):
There's already so much crap circulating through social media? Why
are we adding now art crap? Like why like stop?
And then it's and then it's like you're paying thousands
and thousands of dollars to go to college and then
you're just gonna like chat GP. I looked for a
million ways to cheat when I was in college, but
at least I was using my own word, like like

(02:29:06):
manipulating other words and trying to like I wasn't just
like finding chat GPT and copy and pasting.

Speaker 5 (02:29:11):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:29:12):
Well, yeah, it's like they closed the Department of education.
That doesn't happen overnight. It's like they've been trying to
make everyone dumb for decades and it's worked. The kids
aren't reading, everyone's having paragraphs written for them.

Speaker 4 (02:29:24):
I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (02:29:25):
I know that there's one place in this city they're
actually in like a chat ai farm, but they use
all that energy to heat their spa. What so the
saunas and spas are being it's like a front for
actual GBT grinding. So my head, it's like these grinding gears.
But I don't know what it is about that. Yeah,

(02:29:45):
we have no idea, but it is bad.

Speaker 4 (02:29:48):
It's proven bad. But it's using all this water. I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:29:51):
It's just we're in too deep. I don't know what
the future holds for us.

Speaker 1 (02:29:55):
I really I think that there's some ways that AI
is going to be helpful, like, for example.

Speaker 2 (02:29:58):
Yeah, but it should be for nature. I don't know,
it should be about medicine, like I should be exact
aware exactly. Like I just went and got my mammogram yesterday.
Shout out to everybody. Please get your fucking mammograms.

Speaker 1 (02:30:08):
I don't want to hear anything about you're not getting
them because you like didn't think you had a problem
or whatever. Please go get one once you turn forty
or before if you have risk factors. But my sister,
when she went to get hers, she could pay a
little bit extra to have AI apparently go through and
give you, like a deeper analysis of your mammogram, which great,
let's do it for medicine and shit like that, not

(02:30:31):
for writing your paper about Napoleon or whatever.

Speaker 2 (02:30:35):
And then I had someone in my life be like, oh, yeah,
but I'm not good at writing things like you are.
So I get to use that, and then I have
a good thing, and it's like, no, you should work
with someone you should work with another human. You should
look at examples of paragraphs. You should like compile because
when I like officiated a wedding, it's like you get
a little booklet. You look at the booklet, you see
the form, and then you plug it. You can plug

(02:30:56):
and chug. There's some sort of critical thinking you can do.
I don't understand this thing of well, I don't know
how to do it, so I'll just have this thing
do it. That's ruining the invit Like, what the fuck
are you talking?

Speaker 1 (02:31:06):
Already we have Google, Like already we have so many
more like things at our disposal than we did before AI.
You know, like you have so many ways that you
can find things on the Internet to inspire you as
a jumping off point, as an idea generator. And now
it's like we just have this thing that's doing it
all for you and not even making you connect the dots,
and we need people connecting the dots, guys. Well now

(02:31:27):
without connecting the dots now, without PBS, I mean, there
will never be a dot connected again. My kids are
watching PBS kids every single fucking day. They watch shows
from twenty years ago on PBS that are so fucking
good PBS has the best kids shows, like It's It's
they watch the show called.

Speaker 4 (02:31:45):
Work, like I'm on the verge of tears, honestly, Like I.

Speaker 3 (02:31:47):
Know, I know.

Speaker 1 (02:31:47):
That's why I can't. I don't think the PBS stuff
is going to happen.

Speaker 5 (02:31:50):
I really don't.

Speaker 1 (02:31:51):
I hope that like viewers and stuff will fundraise and
we'll be able to like keep it functioning even without
the government, or we'll bring it back as soon as
he's gone.

Speaker 4 (02:31:58):
Whatever.

Speaker 1 (02:31:58):
We have to win in twenty twenty eight so that
or twenty twenty six so that he's you know, doesn't
have any more power.

Speaker 2 (02:32:04):
Yeah, I'm actually I just went on the Arthur shop.
I'm like, I'll buy some of my guy. Yeah yeah, yeah,
oh my god, Arthur Pillow. I've actually been doing such
a good job because of fascism. I'm really trying not
to spend as much on stupid stuff, like just be
prepared for like stuff. Yeah, oh god. I was at
a store. It was like a clear purse shape like

(02:32:26):
a strawberry with a clear strap.

Speaker 4 (02:32:28):
And I just you didn't get it. I didn't.

Speaker 2 (02:32:31):
It was only not only it was thirty dollars. It's
you know, like it's not like that's gonna make or
break everything in my life. But I definitely went, no,
you're not getting a strawberry bag I do in this economy,
not right now. But now I'm looking at this Arthur
pillow to help PBS. Yeah, I mean, come on, that strawberry,
that strawberry plastic purse.

Speaker 1 (02:32:51):
Wasn't helping anybody. Now we're helping PBS. We're helping. They
all grown up women's crop to hoodie. They know they
know Arthur's demographic corputy on the PBS shop store.

Speaker 4 (02:33:05):
Oh my god, I love it. Okay, let me know.

Speaker 2 (02:33:07):
It's them as teens, it's the future versions of them.

Speaker 4 (02:33:10):
Oh, they're all grown up. Not I'm grown up.

Speaker 2 (02:33:12):
I thought it was like for a grown up woman,
But it's them as grown ups. I guess Arthur didn't
teach me enough because I can't get that.

Speaker 1 (02:33:23):
Let's get into what was mister Pegg to do our
weekly segment where we direct you to an organization, a book,
a movie, a documentary, something to give you more info
about what we talked about today. And obviously, this episode
covers a ton of fucking issues. Sex trafficking, child trafficking, pedophilia, online,
child sex abuse images horrible stuff, and I found this

(02:33:46):
organization called the Innocent Lives Foundation. Their mission is to
identify anonymous child predators and to help bring them to justice.
But they don't condone vigilantesm I think they're just like
honestly really good at like hacking and unmasking people using technology.
They operate by seeking the assistance of appropriate members of
the information security community, using cutting edge technology, and establishing

(02:34:08):
working relationships with law enforcement, plus some other guiding principles
like I said, no vigilanteism and not sharing their techniques,
like even if they bring down a big ring, they're
not like here's how we did it, because they don't
want to unintentionally educate predators to avoid detection and prosecution.
So for more information or if you want to donate,
you can go to Innocentlives Foundation dot org and that

(02:34:29):
will be posted in our show notes as always, and
we'll be posted on our stories of our Instagram and
saved Forever in our WWSPD highlight and our Instagram is
that's messed up pod, So go over there, go over
there and get involved in the conversation about how Velasco
and Silva have been let go.

Speaker 2 (02:34:48):
I can't believe mention it at all, but I didn't
like them as Karens.

Speaker 1 (02:34:51):
People are people are talking on the Instagram about it.
Some people are sad, some people are happy. You know.

Speaker 2 (02:34:57):
I just I will see who they pay next year,
I guess, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:35:01):
But Muggsy Caine's still there as long as Kevin Kane
is still on. I think he's doing a great job.
But it seems like they're rolling into bringing Rolins back
in a way.

Speaker 2 (02:35:09):
But I don't know Rolins. Who followed Steph Tolf Wow.
Kelly Giddish followed her huge. Yeah, she was, yeah, okay,
this is huge also, so I'm looking at the Arthur merchant,
I go, wow, panty is weird. It's a bandana for
your dog, obviously, But what size pillows should I get?

(02:35:32):
Fourteen by fourteen, sixteen, sixteen, eighteen, eighteen, twenty twenty or.

Speaker 1 (02:35:35):
Twenty No, no, no, no, I'll tell you exactly. So
you know, at my house, the square pillows that are
on my couch that's in eighteen by eighteen, A twenty
by twenty is quite big, and a sixteen by sixteen
would be, you know, a little bit smaller than like
just those squares I have on my couch, so like
a pretty Do you.

Speaker 4 (02:35:51):
Think I should get eighteen eighteen? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:35:52):
I think eighteen eighteen if you're gonna throw it on
your couch, or sixteen sixteen, either one.

Speaker 2 (02:35:57):
It's so cute. All right, PBS, I'm callos join us
next week, I'll give a review of the pillow and
we will be doing the episode Consent, Season two, episode ten.

Speaker 1 (02:36:10):
Thank you so much, thanks for listening. Guys, We'll see
you next week. Bye bye.

Speaker 2 (02:36:23):
That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (02:36:26):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (02:36:38):
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.

Speaker 1 (02:36:46):
As always, please see our show notes for sources and
more information.

Speaker 2 (02:36:50):
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain.

Speaker 1 (02:36:56):
And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker,
Patrick Cottner and Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and
Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our
executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody
at Exactly Right Media.

Speaker 2 (02:37:11):
Dun Dun,

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