Rapist Anonymous w/ Thomas Sadoski

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies.

Speaker 3 (00:07):
These episodes are based on. These are our stories Une Dune.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello, Hello, Hello, that's messed up an SVU podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
My name is Lisa Traeger and my name, as always
is Kara Klank Lisa.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
What's up?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Well, we have to tell them it's an SVU podcast.
We talk about an episode, the crime a guest.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
You guys don't know that by now it's an episode.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Come on, maybe someone's just a big fan of only
this episode.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, in case you are starting here on this episode
in the thirties, we are an SVU podcast. We dissect
an episode from the show, then we talk about the
true crime it was based on, and we interview a
guest associated with the episode in the episode. Usually and
we got a hunk this time. Yeah, baby, huge news
for us. We did finally go see Zola after Ye,

(01:14):
that's what I was going to get into. I'm so
excited to talk about Zola that I forgot to introduce
what our podcast is.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, Sola was incredible filmmaking and anyone cool that I
run into has already seen it.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
We saw it.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Opening night right well with La It's like weird where
things are before them, But it was fun, you know,
Mom's day out. And the best news is there is
an Sview cameo in Sola, Officer cal Doon aka Ariel Statuel,
and he had a nice little sex scene, a little part,

(01:47):
and it was thrilling to see him. I wish we
got to see him more, but you know, yeah, we
were busy seeing amazing outfits and sad scenes and just
amazing filmmaking. I would say, yeah, I was like, I
truly can't stop thinking about it. I think about it
all the time, Like it was so good, I'm going again. Yeah,
I was seeing I was like, I was like, I

(02:08):
never go see movies twice, but I would easily go
see that movie again.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
Never you've never seen a movie twice, not never, but
like I can name it. In the theater.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, in the theater, I saw Sense and Sensibility twice.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Never seen that one so sad, and I honestly can't
think of another one.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
I can't think of another time I've paid to go
see a movie like two times in the theater.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, I was acting shocked. But I don't know if
I've done that, you know, but I've gone. I used
to rent the same movie constantly from Blockbuster.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Oh you know what other movie I've seen twice? That
movie Playing by Heart. I was telling you about that.
You were like, what the hell is this movie? Hopefully
this is another Chipmunk effect. And everybody writes me and
tells me how much they love this fucking movie. But
it's one of those ensemble movies where everybody has their
own storyline and then you kind of find out how
everybody's together. And it's early Angelina Jolee like it might
be the first thing I ever saw Angelina Jolee in,
and like Ryan Philippe and all these people.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
So anyway, love that movie. And I saw twice in
the theater.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
I when you said the Playing of the Heart or whatever,
I thought, Crimes of the Heart.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Do you know about that one? No, what's that?

Speaker 2 (03:10):
It's a movie that I think was successful, but it
is a play. And in high school theater I did
a scene from it. I could tell my theater teacher
was impressed. Like I think, like Shirley McLean's in it
or something.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Oh wow, Okay, when I look at the poster of
this movie. It's it's Diane Keaton, Jessica Lang and Sissy Spacek.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
I mean icons only this is like, I gotta watch this.
And you know I have worked with Jessica Lang before,
no big deals me. I excuse me. I know in
Horace and Pete, I was at the bar and I
have lines.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
With Jessica Lang like she tells me to shut the
fuck up or something, or like you dumb bitch, like
she says something.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Mean to me. No, what was she like in real life?

Speaker 2 (03:50):
She was really in character and like focused, and so
I wasn't like paling around with her on set, sure,
but very kind and perfect like amazing, not a rude
thing to say about her, but we didn't like vibe.
But I did see her napping on a little couch
in some hallway and it was a really amazing experience, Like, oh,

(04:11):
the best in the world are working for sag minimum
and sleeping on a couch to make something good. So
if anyone's a dick on set, it makes no sense
to me because I'm I'm watching Jessica Lang nap on
a random loose couch. So and that's the same, like
everyone amazing that I've worked with is always like the best.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
It's always like the people not that good.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
I don't know, like Steve BUSHEMI was on that set
Alan Alda, Edie Falco. It was an incredible experience. The
great snow to act. Yeah, I wish Louie wasn't a
dumb bitch so I could brag about it more.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
But it was an amazing career moment in my life.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
I think we all wish Louis wasn't a dumb bitch.
I mean, I nailed it, and not to I do
have another brag. Okay, I did a comedy show last
night at Diynosta. Yes, tell Us, tell Us. I was
going to ask you how it went.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Yeah, I was.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
I mean, I am still high off of it, honestly,
like I can't. I was the last person to leave,
and then I stood with audience members in the parking
garage refusing to leave, like I just wanted to save
her every moment. But Benito Skinner and Mary Beth Burone
had this show, and Maggie Rogers was on one of
the shows, and she sounded like when she started to

(05:24):
she was so cool backstage and so nice and fun.
But then I forgot, and then the moment she started
to sing, I couldn't believe I was in her presence
like she sounded.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
She has such a beautiful voice. Really, and we were
all upset. So what was funny?

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Meg Stalter was on the show and I DMed her
earlier in the day going can't wait to see you
and Maggie Rogers, and she thought I was kidding, and
she goes, that's a funny joke.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
Why would she say that?

Speaker 2 (05:46):
And then she said when she walked into the green room,
she fully gasped and realized I was not kidding.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
She didn't know Maggie was on the show.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
No, no one really knew, and she thought I was
just joshing with her, like pulling a prank. She was
like Lisa Sile assumed she saw the promo. There wasn't
a promo, nothing was announced.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
Oh really Yeah. And then Langston Kerman couldn't believe it.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
I told him he was like I listened to her
album all the time, Like we were all we all
couldn't believe it, Like she sounded me, I mean it
was I can't wait for her new album.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Amazing, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Well, Lisa stars star studded yeah, it was star studded.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
And then there were people on that show.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
We were at the same July fourth party and I
didn't even know because I got so anxious that I
had to leave.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
I think everybody can relate to that.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, I'm like, we're both really social, chatty people. I
didn't expect to get tired out socializing. And I'm sure
are some substances I took added to that, but I
had to leave.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Sure, And also just like we're a little out of practice.
I mean we are easing into like the full social calendar.

Speaker 4 (06:52):
You know.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
Yeah, I would give yourself a break.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
I gave myself. I just I expected to be like
I'm gonna rage all night, you know, fun on her lawn.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
And then at eleven, I was like, can I get
a ride home? Please? I can't. I can't, I can't.
I can't be here anymore.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
I cannot, like ask how someone knows the hosts of
the party. Again, I like, I don't have it in me.
I had a cute Fourth of July where Rosie went
to a party with all older boys and just totally
threw herself into their posse, and it was gave me
hope for her future.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
I miss her every time I hear about her.

Speaker 4 (07:26):
Ire.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Well, we're going to get you two together. But I
did see little Oscar yesterday. Oh you did.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
He's getting he's looking like a real Yeah, he's looking
like he's getting cuter and a little easier by the day.
So hopefully a month from now he's going to be
gorgeous and easy.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
We do have to.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Wrap up, but I wanted to talk about how Mrushka
Hargita keeps fucking breaking her body.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
What's going on? Like, no idea. We just brained another
ankle and was like, this is my summer.

Speaker 4 (07:52):
Look.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
I'm like, didn't you just recover from like a knee thing. Yeah,
I don't know, drink Alcia. I have no idea. I
don't know what we need to get Mushka on that
bonivo tip. I don't know what's going on, Lisa.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah, what did I burp out?

Speaker 1 (08:06):
No?

Speaker 3 (08:06):
I absolutely need to call you out that.

Speaker 5 (08:08):
You were like, I don't know if I've ever seen
a movie twice in the theaters, and like ten episodes ago,
you were like, how have you never seen a movie
twice in the theaters, Kara, I've done it with.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
This movie, this movie, this movie and you like listed
them really no, no.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Like I've watched Like if I like a movie, I'll
watch it dozens of times and it's always on.

Speaker 5 (08:28):
I do that Kara sense and Sensibility fact. Because the
pod No recollection, that's all.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Well yeah, yeah, year one, we're already repeating stories.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
I don't know what to do. I did want to add.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
I went to wildly, a six am soul cycle. I'm
not a morning person, but it was a Rihanna ride
and I had to do it and it was perfect.
And if anyone out there ever sees on any schedule
Rihanna music, workout go, it's the perfect music.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
It's like powerful, inspirational, fast memories like set, it's just
they do We.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
Found love of course.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
It's like my favorite. That's like my favorite. I love
that song. I mean that's like post pandemic.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Like dream is like me being in a pack dance
floor and that song comes on and yeah, everyone jumps
up and down and Henson like that's what I want.
I also want to I we got to do it
Megan's wedding. But my dream was you know that song
where it was like shut up and dance with me.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
Oh my god, my at my wedding. That was the
hugest song.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Well, I always said, I go, I want to dance
to this at a wedding. I'm like, this is the
perfect dance wedding song. And then it played at our
friend's wedding and I was like, my dreams are coming true.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
I was in the middle of a conversation with someone
at that wedding and that song came on and I went,
I'm sorry, I can't and I just like ran away
because I had to go to the dance floor.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
Now, BA Bride is cool. Probably you could be like peace.
I didn't even want to.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Invite you, you dumb bitch, and I still have to say,
you look incredible.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
Let's get started. Sorry, let's go soul cycle. We can
never keep it short.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
I don't know why you try, Hannah.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
All right, So today we're doing Rapists Anonymous and it's
season fifteen. It is episode nine. Hulu says, episode eight.
Shut your mouths. We don't care.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
We don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
It's like Hulu has a vendetta against us in this podcast.
But the episode starts out so exciting. I love seeing
the detectives on their off hours and they're at a
Crew dinner at Marishka's and Cassidy is there, short curly hair,
Benson Amorro, Melinda Warner iced tea, and Kragan's with a
date named Eileen.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
So pretty exciting. Is this even a holiday? I think
they're just having dinner, which is they're just it's they're
doing a rare glimpse into And coincidentally, they just did
like a wrap photo lo now of Marishka having all
the cast like over to her house and like the big, big,
high up people and it was like a long, twenty

(10:58):
person dinner and it looked nice.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
She's always with Allie Wentworth and Ali went Worth, his
best friends with like the Seinfeld and anyone?

Speaker 3 (11:05):
Who is she? Why is she friends with everyone I
want to be friends with?

Speaker 1 (11:08):
She was an actress. I don't think she acts much anymore.
But she's married to George Stefanopolis. I think, yeah, the
answer is nothing, Kara. Yeah, it's just another loose person
who no one cares about, you know, like, how are
they friends with all of high society?

Speaker 3 (11:22):
I just don't get.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Itanopolis is a pretty big personality. But and then Melinda's
being wild and she's just like she's a lesbian he's
Frans and a murder weapon was found in his anal canal,
and then I teased talking about necrophilia, and Benson's like,
let's relax, guys, Let's just have a nice dinner and
not talk about work. And then it is silence, and

(11:43):
that's kind of like me and care if someone says,
let's not talk shit about someone, we have nothing to say.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
We just like have a positive time where we like
don't talk shit.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
We're just like super nice. We're like absolutely and then nothing.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, I'm sure there's no one that's listening to this, like, wait,
where's Rollins? But they tell us anyways, So we see
Rollins and they jump to an AA style type meeting
in a dark basement. There's desserts and a woman named
Lena is talking. She's blonde with short hair, and then
there's a man next to Rollins with a douche lord
hat and Lena's talking how she's been sober for almost

(12:20):
a year and the douche lord hat is Nate, Lena's
first sponsor.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
In La and Rollins and Nate smile at each other.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
So you know, if you get vibes, you see what's up.
So back to dinner, Cassidy lets us know that Olivia
is now going to be sergeant and that she got
forty eighth out of eight thousand on her test, which
is impressive. And then Benson's like, yay, Cassidy is going
to be a detective again. But at IAB and everyone's like,

(12:51):
oh Grace, yeah, but tomorrow's a gentleman. He's like, that's great, congrats,
this is awesome. We cut back to the AA crew
and Nate owns a bar, so that's weird.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
Natea's douche lord guy.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yes, yes, yeah, Nate is a sponsor, owns the bar,
and he's with two hot blondes, Lena and Rollins, and
they order wings for the table, and then we see
a bald man with a beard like, you know, someone
recently did a joke where they called this hairstyle a
flesh covered Yamaica, which I thought was funny. I wish

(13:27):
I remembered the comedian's name, but it was not an
original thought. So they're all sitting there talking and Lena
is touching the bald man's upper thigh very sexually. We
later learned his name's Gene. I'll start calling him Gene
instead of that bald man over there, So she's like
rubbing his upper thigh pretty sexually. And now Rollins and

(13:49):
Nate are getting really sexy and close, and he's like,
thanks for coming to aa. I know that's not your thing,
and she's like I can still learn, and Rollins is like,
we decided last time this was a bad idea and
he's like I know, and what And so now they're
fucking well, they're about to fuck.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
They're in four play action again. Another scene you don't
see very often on an SVU. You don't really see
the detectives. You sometimes see them kiss and then wake
up in a man's shirt, but you don't like see.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
A lot of the like rolling like thunder under the
covers action.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
You know, yeah, I was very into it and me
he's a hot guy. For those who don't know, he's
in real life married to Amanda Seafried Cifrid.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
Figure it out. But you know what I'm talking about. Yes,
he's a Broadway baby too.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
But then so someone's buzzing at the door, interrupting the sex,
and he's like, don't get the door. But it's like, okay,
I understand not answering a phone call, but a door
in the middle of the night. You have to answer, right,
Can I ignore that?

Speaker 1 (14:46):
But you know he wants to fuck So Rollins puts
on a sweater, but she's already wearing a long sleeve
flannel shirt, so she's barely undressed.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
I don't know why she had to put on a
sweater to answer the door. But it's Lena.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
She's crying and she's saying that Jean took her home,
had a few drinks and then raped her. So she
falls into Rollin's arms to cry, and that's the credits. Baby,
so a real entertangled mess. We got back from the
credits and.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Lena tells Rollins that he was buzzing at her door
and he had been drinking. She could smell she could
smell the booze on his breath, and they were kissing,
but it heated it up super fast. He made her
crawl on all fours to the bed, which reminds me
of the episode of Girls with Sherry Appleby, who is
also an sv alum. And we also learn he has
a fiance and she's a prude and they call her

(15:34):
missionary Melissa, so and so he's cheating on her. He's
a super kinky person.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
And a rapist, and so yeah, he threw her on
the bed and grabbed her hair and was being super
rough and hurting her.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
And Ronin's like, did you say no and stop? And
she says yes, but he kept going. And then she's like, wait,
but is that rape? I don't know because I let
him back in, and Ronin's like, wait what. And so
we find out that he walked her home. Earlier, they
had a quickie in the doorway that was consensual, but
the second time when he came back, he forced her,
and Rollins is like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
That is rape.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
And then a doctor at the hospital tells Rollins that
she's holding up and that they did a rape exam
and she's has a sedative right now. And then the
doctor says you can take your sister home, and Rollins
is like, wait, sister, And the doctor was like, oh, sorry,
maybe I misheard something.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
I'm not really sure.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
So that's a little suspicious that the sister thing came out,
because obviously we know she has a shady sister.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
So was it a mistake? Is this on purpose? What's happening? SVU?
Let's go baby.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
So then we're back at the precinct and Rollins breaks
anonymity from her whole group and tells the whole squad
how she knows Lena from AA and Benson is drinking
a green juice, which I love, and she has turquoise earrings,
which I love even more.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
It's very Santa Fe Benson. Yeah, I just I've never
seen her in a green juice.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
It's always coffee, coffee, coffee, maybe a diet coke once
in a while, but I've never.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Seen a green juice. She's trying to survive, to make captain,
you know. And then the funniest thing is I love
when they all like I love the specicifity of jobs sometimes,
like I'm reminded of the Flavor Institute.

Speaker 4 (17:15):
And here.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Gane is an in house lawyer at a baby's supply.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Chain, Like, is that someone's cousin's job? Like how do
they come up with this stuff? I mean, these writers
are incredible. So they go to his job and he's like, listen,
I'm stressed, what do you want from me? But he
shows text messages and Lena is all into it, Like
when he says I want you to crawl and I'm

(17:42):
gonna fuck you, She's like, oh, that's humiliating. I fucking
love it, so uh oh, these texts like that makes
this case really hard.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
Rollins asks like, hey.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Why did you say you were my sister at the hospital,
And she's like, I said you were like a sister
to me at and want to break AA anonymity like
you did at the precincts earlier.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
So yeah, that's.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Really she's quick, you know, like I didn't want to
say we know each other from the meetings. Barbara's watching
this through, like watching them chat at you know, through
the window, and he's like, this is a rough case.

Speaker 4 (18:17):
You know.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Jean's a Jewish lawyer, he's a good boy. She's an
addict and a sales clerk. So classic Barbara bullshit that
you all fully forget because you want to have sex
with him so bad.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
But he is a problem.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
So Amorro goes to see Gene to put some pressure
on him and see if they can talk to his fiance,
and Jean's like, listen, leave my fiance alone. She's working
at a refugee camp in Haiti. You don't have to
bother her. So I love them.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Missionary Melissa is a real missionary too, you know, and
all and always oh my God, missionary Melissa. That's wait,
I did not even put that together. That's too good.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
I don't know either, so right now, so it's I'm
on the fly.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Do you think if you're a missionary you have to
be more sexually adventurous so that people don't just label
you with these kind of nicknames. No, if you're a missionary, like,
I'm a dictionary but I love it doing it reverse
cowgirl just FYI, Like you have to be super clear
on your dating profiles.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
This is like so tough.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
For me because missionaries are bad people, Like they pretend
they're good people, but they're bad. Like if you go
to do volunteer work and actually work, but if you're
there to convert people and make people Christians, like you're
a bad person. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yeah, that's like Book of Mormon shit too. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Because I went to an evangelical Christian college if anyone
has forgotten, and I was in a conflict resolution class
and we put together like some sort of conference for peace.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
I don't know, but we had people from.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
The community talk and there was someone that was like,
they helped people get off the street, but their number
one goal was converting them to Christianity like that was.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Success to them.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
Like they like if they got someone off the street
and functioning in a home and a job and like
off of drugs, like that wouldn't be successful to them,
Like converting them is their number one goal, right, And
so to me, that's when it clicked in my brain.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
I'm like, oh, you guys are bad people.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
You know.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
They're the type of people that are anal sexing for Jesus.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
Like, Okay, this is very interesting and comes into play
in the real crime.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
Keep going, thank you, keep.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Going, Thanks for I love where this is where you're
taking it well.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
I also wanted to say I went into Christian college
very open minded, and I left being like, you're the worst.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Stop bragging about your hour a jew for Jesus when
you first got there.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Though, No, I was ready to just be like okay, whatever,
like this is like not her name or Leola like
I don't care about in school and gets to believe
what they want.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
And then all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, I
hate you guys.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Why do I have to write three papers about gay marriage?
This is such a non issue for me, Like people
were truly like in Christian ethics, we talked about how
sad it was then more like Christians couldn't save more
Jews in the Holocaust, and it's like, you guys aren't
the victim.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
Like it was really not center.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
It was a fucked up place to be, but I'm
really grateful for that experience. And I did like a
couple of people, and I met my best friend there,
but she also knew it was bullshit. Okay, YadA, YadA, YadA.
And I'm a really famous alumni. They don't give me
any respect. Why am I not in the pamphlets?

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Huh? I wonder?

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Okay, Okay, So they have to figure out if this
is part of a pattern or like what's actually going
on or is this like so they find out that
the Jean and Lena have fucked in a Brooks Brother's
dressing room, which is funny that, like they're talking down
about her being a sales clerk, but Brooks Brothers is
pretty fancy, you know, like you do.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Okay, Wow, I didn't realize it was a Brooks brother
I missed that detail. That's an extensive store. I've never
shot theresive store. I used to try to like go
there to find like Father's Day presence.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
I guess, yeah, I got my dad nuts this year,
nice sauce.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
Did you do nuts dot Com?

Speaker 4 (22:05):
No?

Speaker 2 (22:06):
Unfortunately, I had to do Amazon because I've forgotten till Saturday.
And even though they're an evil corporation, they will get
your dad nuts in twenty four hours. And then Jane
says that he told Melissa everything on Skype, so this
is pre zoom and that she forgave him and she
and but it's like, girl, you could do better. Why

(22:26):
are you like missionary Melissa? But maybe she just loves
him and knows he's an attic. I don't know, but
it's like he is fully cheating on you constantly do
not forgive him. So we cut to Lena and Rollins
at Nate's bar again, and Lena's eating spaghetti and meatballs
that look amazing, and Rollins is just explaining to Lena
why this is a tough case, like I believe that
you were raped, but the texts like this really does

(22:46):
make it a hard case, right, And she's like, listen,
I smoke.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
And I have sex.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
I don't drink, I don't gamble, I don't do drugs,
like those are my things, Like I don't know what
you want from me, I can't have nothing, and she says,
just stay away from him and if he that, you
contact me immediately. Rollins and Nate like move over to
flirt by the bar and Lena is alone and they're
talking about her while looking at her like She's probably like, okay,

(23:12):
I could tell you guys are talking about me.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
The bar's basically empty.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, he has three shirts on, a sweater, a flannel
and a Renaissance white shirt underneath and a Gorean's Brother hat.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
It's just so many layers. Yeah, and layers really threw you, Lisa.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
I was like, we watched this episode together and you
were just like, why so many layers?

Speaker 3 (23:31):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, it's just tough for me because I would feel
claustrophobic in those so many layers, and then cuts to
them shirtless in beds, so they did so obviously.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Rowins had a problem with the layers too. She's like,
take it all off. He just got in bed and
that was took. That was five minutes of four play.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
So the phone buzzes and wakes Rollin's up. Crime scene.
Rollins meets iced Tea, and Jean took a header off
the roof in quotes off of Lina's building. So Jean
is dead at the bottom of Lena's building and he
fell off the roof. He is dead Ice and Rollins agreed,
this is no good, not good. Lena is like, wait,

(24:13):
this makes no sense. He fell off my roof. I
don't get it. And Lena's like, I wanted to drink
so bad, so instead I made a twelve step call
and he was furious and accusing me of like ruining
his life, and Lena's saying that she tried calming him down,
and Jean said he wanted to make amends, and Rollins
is like, did he come by here? And she says no,
it's this bitch is a liar. I'm sorry, yeah, and

(24:35):
then she goes, I don't get why you won't believe me.
It's like because you keep lying and he throws your
room and you called him, like why are you surprised
they don't believe you? I okay, So Iced teas outside,
and I guess Nate came up in the conversation, like
when they were talking to Lena.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
So Iced Tea is like, what's up with Nate? Who
is this? And Rollins is like, you're not my daddy,
leave me alone.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
I'm a big girl, iced tea and doesn't want to
talk to him.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
So cool. Well, he points out.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
That, like, you're you're not supposed to Well, first of all,
you're definitely not supposed to date your sponsor. And I
think you're not even supposed to have a sponsor of
the sex that you're attracted to.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Maybe, but I think it's just for her because she's slutty.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, he's like specific Rolins rules. Yeah, but it is cute.
Icy is like trying to look out for her. I
think it's kind of cute.

Speaker 5 (25:25):
No.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
I love their relationship. I love an iced tea, Rollins
yeah vibe. So they are meeting up at the medical
Examiner's office and Melinda says that he died immediately from impact,
and she says there's small amounts of liquor and drugs,
but he wasn't drunk and he wasn't alone, And they're.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Like, how do you know?

Speaker 2 (25:46):
So his pants are unzipped, there's saliva on his penis
and fresh ejaculate in the urethra. She says, most men
pee after sex and that clears out all the leftover jiz.
But so that he recently came and there was leftovers,
but he didn't get time to pee. And then Melinda
has an iconic line where she says he came and

(26:08):
then he went.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Which I posted in our Stories and I will I
will say, I will find this story and I will
put it in our mention at all Highlight. But I
posted that they just made that same joke again in
the current season where they go, they go, he went,
but he never came, Like they made the same exact
Melinda joke about coming and then dying.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
So after that.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Iconic moment that I'm glad they did a fucking callback to.
They're an interrogation with Lena Benson and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow's
knee is up on the chair and he's just looking
sexy as hell. So Lena now says she let him in.
I mean, it's like she is a mess. So Lena

(26:54):
says she let him in to talk on the doorway,
and then they're like, well, how did.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
You get on the roof?

Speaker 1 (26:59):
And she's like, I didn't want to in the apartment
and we've had sex on the roof before and he
likes it on the ledge.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
She's like very into.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
That, and she thought if she went along with it,
he would leave her alone. She went to suck his
dick and take care of it, but then he got
violent and pulled her hair and grabbed her, and she
got scared and pushed him off the roof after she screamed, like,
don't hurt me. I mean, I don't believe it sucks,
but I don't believe it word she's saying.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
So Amar's like, why did you lie? And She's like,
why would I lie? No one believed me because I'm
a liar. I mean, I don't I honestly, It's like, Lena,
leave me alone. And then Barba does have a great
line where he goes her not telling us that she
filated him with Frizzle Rocks in her mouth, like tattoo
that on my forehead.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, he says that, but like, had that come up
earlier or that's like a later detail that they find out.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
No, no one has mentioned it, No one mentions it again.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
But like Melinda never said I found jaculate in the
urethra as well as crystallized candy fragments from Frizzle Rock,
Like we never heard that, right.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
No, But I love that and I love pop rocks,
which I'm assuming is for yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
So that's that's also like an urban legende type of
thing I've heard of, of, like yeah, get like give
a guy a BJ with pop rocks.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
In your mouth.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
But if you've done that, let us know a how
you didn't choke and be if it went off, if
it went well, let us know dm us.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Rollins of course, is trying to defend her. So they're
not going to find Melissa the fiance and see what
her story is and if anything matches, and they can get.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
More clues from her.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
But first Nate and Rollins and the dog, you know,
Franny or Frankie or whatever.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
I'm sure someone will like me it's Franny. I think
it's Franny.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yeah, And they're walking with a really pretty view of
New York and talking over the case, which also seems insane,
like what are why are you? There's not a detective
that's made more worse than decisions than fucking Rollins. And
so then Rollind's like, are you sponsoring Lena? Like youre
sponsoring me? And he's like, hey, don't be mad, and

(29:01):
like reprimands her. But it's like, okay, you're fucking everybody,
amarro and I sear gossiping at the precinct about rollins,
and Melissa shows up in a sweater, asking if they're
investigating Jean's murder, and.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
They're like, who told you he was murdered? And she says,
Jeane did. And I feel like this is like a
twenties movie. I was just like, I love it.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
And so basically he left her a voicemail and they
listened to the message and he Jeane says, Melissa, it's me.
I'm afraid what Lena might do. I'm going to try
to talk some sense into her. If anything happens to me,
called the police.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
I love you. And that was at ten pm.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
She threatened him and Melissa and stalked him, and when
he tried to end it, she accused him of rape,
and when that didn't work, she fucking killed him.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
And uh so the super shows up too.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
I mean, it's just a fucking rat race at the
precinct today. Everyone's coming in to red on Lina, so
everyone hates her. So the building super gives the scoop
that Lena asked him how to disable the roof door
alarm like a few nights ago because she wanted to
go smoke up there, but he knew it wasn't for

(30:08):
smoking because he's caught Jean and her fucking up there
before multiple times, and after Jean's death, when he went
up there, the batteries were out of the alarm, so.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
That's a clue.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Now, Benson and Tomorrow go to arrest Lena, and Lena's like,
what why are you doing this? And Amanda's there what
the fuck?

Speaker 2 (30:32):
So Amanda's inner apartment and Amanda is like, what the fuck?
And Benson is like disappointed, and Amanda like scoffs at her,
like what the fuck are you doing?

Speaker 3 (30:40):
Rollins? So I just don't get how she's a detective.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
So Barbara and Rolins are talking and Lena's like, listen,
Rowins wanted to call as a friend, like, she didn't
make any admissions to me, And Rollins is like, I
didn't even know her that well. And Barbara's like, what
the fuck do you mean you didn't know her that well?
She thought you were close enough to disclose a rape
to you, and Rollin says it's because she knew I
was an SVU detective and Barbara goes, you told her that,

(31:06):
and Rollins is confused a little bit and goes, I
mean maybe I brought it up in a meeting, So
this is a foreshadow. If you guys know that word,
or if you went to English class, if you did
sixth grade English class, you know that this is a foreshadow.
So Rollins asks if meetings are confidential, and he says
ethically yes, but legally no. So if there's something, you

(31:26):
better speak up, bitch, and Barbara says he's not going
to ask Rollins to testify, which is super cute. So
now we're in Core and Benson's on the stand and
Barbara Barbara is asking about how Lena is a liar,
and Nia Vargalos is in this episode as a defense attorney,
so very star.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
Studied episode, and she's a hero. I love her so much.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
And Lena has glasses on, high collars, dress shirt like
full librarian chic baby, and Nia is going after Benson hard,
and this is what one of my favorite judges, Elena
Barth played by Jenna Stern in nineteen episodes of the show,
and she's also been on the Mothership and Criminal Intent
a bunch, so dick Wolf obviously very much loves her.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
So cord is happening.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
But now we're back at the precinct, and Olivia does
throw some shade to Rollins, like damn, you got your
friend a real good lawyer.

Speaker 3 (32:21):
That's that okay. Wow.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Rollins is like, hey, guys, I see this clearly I
and I see it.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
Why don't you guys trust me?

Speaker 2 (32:29):
And It's like, oh, because you've constantly lied before and
put all of us in risk constantly.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
So Benson and Rollins are like at the precinct, going
into it, and Benson's like, you need to like shut
up and.

Speaker 3 (32:39):
Just focus on your life, girl.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
So then we cut back to the meeting and Nate
is talking at a meeting and he's been sober for
ten years, YadA, YadA, yadda, and what do we have here?

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Fucking Tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Amorrow is undercover in a Ranger sweatshirt, looking sexy as
hell again with a classic New York coffee cup, and
he sees Nate as like macking on girls, Andmorrow tries
to bond with him and is like, hey, what's up,
Like I need some help, and Nate blows him off
fully and goes off with like one of the girls
that he's flirting with, and so Amarro knows what's.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Up, but and Tomorrow, and like this is more foreshadowing.
I think of how Amorrow has the hots for Rollins, right, Like,
obviously he's doing this to get information about the case,
but I think he's also doing this to Like there's
two reasons he's trying to help Rollin see that the
guy she's hooking up with is like a lothario.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
So they're in bed.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
So Rollin's and Nate are back in bed and Ron's like, hey,
do you remember how it came up that I worked
in SVU?

Speaker 1 (33:38):
And he was like, I don't know. Maybe I could
have mentioned it, Like he doesn't, I don't, okay, so
implying that he probably is the one that told Lena, right.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
Like that's like the implication.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, and so, and through their combo we find out
the defense is calling a man to take the stand,
Lena is going to take the stand to and then
while they're talking about this court case, he's kissing her
on her and lying to her face, and we hate him.
We also hate Melissa, who's now taking this stand because
you know she's boring at sex boo.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
We hate her.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
So she's on the stand and saying that he was
doing anything you could to get away from her. That
Lena was sending videos to Melissa of them fucking and
all these messages saying that like he would like he's mine,
He's gonna leave you.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
And once like she.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Realized Jeane didn't want her, she screamed rape and when
no one believed her, she killed him. So you know,
that's a great testimony. But now it's Nia's turn to
go for Melissa. And Melissa, I mean, she gets swept,
what is it, wiped the floor with She's basically like
he said he would marry you, but you've never set

(34:49):
a date. There was no venue booked, and he kept
seeing you know, miss Olsen. We learned her last name,
so I bet she's Swedish descent, and so they were
just like maybe is it possible he was just giving
himself like a cover and that he did want her,
And Nia's just like, oh, he was so scared that
he went to the roof and like had her suck

(35:10):
his dick on a ledge, like because he was so scared.
If he was so scared, why would he do that, Like,
you've never done anything kinky with him, You've never drink
with him, So maybe there's another side to him that
you just don't know. That's like an amazing defense, like
that is so fucking good, where it's like Melissa, you
might actually be a loser, so that he doesn't actually
like that much. So they cut to the bunk bed

(35:32):
locker room at the station and Rollin's just screaming at
Tomorrow like how dare you spy and get involved in
my life?

Speaker 3 (35:38):
Like shut up?

Speaker 2 (35:38):
And then Amorrow makes the number one mistake of all
time and tells her to calm down.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Bad move.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
She's not gonna calm down, and so Amaro's like, listen,
I went with the other guys and they all said
he sucks and he's shady in a thirteen stepper, which
means like he's always fucking new girls. And Rollin's like,
you're just jealous and you're addicted to your own a
misery and I see he's like whoa, whoa, whoa relaxed,
and she's like, none of you are my dad's.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
Like you wish they were your dad's Your real dad sucks.
These guys are good.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Guys generally, yeah, And the men are just sitting there
being like Wow, that sucks, and it's like Rollins is
just so wrong. We see it, everyone sees it, and
she's just like a fucking dummy, so like it's you know,
usually I would try to be on a woman's side,
but not here. So she runs to Nate's bar to
have coffee, and we find out that Nate is testifying too,

(36:32):
but didn't mention it to Rollins, which is fucked up
because they were just in bed talking about how Rollins
is going to testify, so it could have naturally came up,
and he quotes like an AA quote and like keep
it moving, baby, and so now we are back in court,
thank god. Lena's on the stand again in a librarian chic,

(36:53):
and she's talking about her bad dad and that Jane
would call her his three whole wonder and I can't
believe and BC aired that, like I've never thought that
that would happen in my wildest dreams. She's saying that
she was scared of him, but she felt like, you know,
she did what he wanted and kept her happy, that
he would be nice and leave her alone, and she

(37:14):
just wanted to comply.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
And she know she's putting out what is.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
It, like the violence she's making the little people play,
the little violence, whatever that is, and so, but Barbara
is ready to like fuck with her. So Barbara is like, Lena,
are you really upset that the rape charges didn't stick?

Speaker 3 (37:31):
Or are you mad that he didn't leave his fiance? Rude?
And she's like, how dare you? Because I was raped?

Speaker 2 (37:37):
And he's like, yeah, but you invited him in and
you sucked his dick on the roof, so what's happening?
And Barbara's like, like, so you're telling me he came
and then immediately became violent, Like that makes no sense,
Like you you know, you're usually chill after you come.
And she's like, stop yelling at me. It's like my dad,
and so a lot of dad stuff in this episode.

(37:59):
You know, he asks why did you lie to the
cops so much? She has no answer. So now Robin's
is getting a little nervous about like taking the stand.
Amoro and Barbara are gossiping about Nate, and then back
at the precinct, we find out Cassidy is making Olivia
clam sauce for dinner, which delicious, and then Amanda's pulling
a double to be their way. Nate testifies like she

(38:21):
is acting like a fourteen year old girl.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
It is really uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Well, for a detective, she's not picking up on a
lot of fucking like signals and signs and evidence like
you she get a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
She's acting like a real cop, which is nice.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah, Amorro is like, yo, I don't think you want
to do that, and she's like, I don't think I
asked for your opinion, bitch. So Rollin's is fuming, and
Benson goes to like just chill her out and is like, girl, like,
relax and maybe you should go talk to someone.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
Maybe you should go to.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Therapy, and Rollin says something that she thinks is a burn,
but it really isn't. She goes, oh, I don't have
to pay for someone to listen to my problems. And
it's like okay, yeah, you just go to meetings where
you're being fully used and taken advantage of and you're
a fucking idiot. So Nate's on the stand and Nia
is playing softball with him, and then Barba is about

(39:13):
to just like go down, and I forgot.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
To say that. Amorro does smell.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
Rollins like, you probably don't want to go watch Nate's testimony,
and she's like fuck you, you know, like we.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
Know something's about to happen.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
So Barbara is like, oh, you're a therapist, and it's like, no,
you're not, which I loved that little sass. But Nate
admits he's had sex with Lena, and Lena turns around
and gives Amanda like puppy dog eyes like I'm so sorry.
Barba asks when is the last time you fucked her?
And it was one week ago. So while he's fucking Rollins,

(39:46):
he's fucking Lena and it's all coming out on the
stand and he admits that Rollins didn't know about Lena,
but Lena knew about Rollins. He shared about Rolin's sister
and job, and then Lena asked Nate to bring Rollins
and he did. Rollins leaves, wiping tears away because she's humiliated,
but don't worry.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
She will never grow or change or be a better person.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
He meets her at the elevator and is like, I
know you're upset, Like let's just talk.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
Let's go to a meeting. Quotes quotes coats forgive and forget.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
You know, I still believe you, Amanda, to progress, not perfection.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
Don't give up on the program.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
She doesn't say anything back to him, and Barbara comes
and says sorry to her and he had to do it.
She's not angry with him, which is correct. She only
has herself to be angry at.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
Okay, so you know she is guilty. Lena is guilty.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
The jury finds are guilty of murder, and she's remanded
for sensing. Bye, bitch, go to jail. Glasses invests are
not going to help you.

Speaker 4 (40:43):
Here.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Rollin's and Ice and Craigan are chatting and she's like,
I don't feel better yet, even when she was guilty,
and Ice invites her for a beer, but she's like, no,
I'm just going to go to a meeting.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
Does she go to a meeting? No, she goes to
the casino.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
She's keeps hitting the blackjack thing and she's looking cigarettes
so cool.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Damn Well wow that because like this Lena woman was
like very pre like this all goes to the premeditation
was how she slept with Nay and like like got
into the got to know Rollins and got close to Rollins.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Also she could kind of pull off this crime.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, you know, like that's really sort of very diabolical.
Well wait until you hear about the real crime. This
is based on We will be right back, Okay. So

(41:46):
this crime is typically unfortunately called the Jody Arias case,
even though it is the case of the murder of
Travis Alexander. But this you probably have heard about this
case because it was truly one of the biggest cases
in the last decade, and it was fully covered on CNN.

(42:07):
HLN had a full nighttime show dedicated to it.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
I remember watching it on TV on like you know
where I was.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
I was at the comedy condo of Zany's Downtown and
watching it on TV because it was like a TV
with ten channels, and I was like, I guess they
have hl and I'm going to watch a shit down
about this weird Mormon murder or whatever. And then later
when I was living when I was in La on
a trip, I remember finding a Huffington Post article that
was just a one hundred and fifty slide slide show

(42:35):
of this case.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
And I stayed up till three.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
In the morning just like going through crime scene photos
and like finding out every detail about this case. So
needless to say, I've been, I've been. I've been studying
this case before. I'm not going to say I remember
everything that I learned in twenty thirteen, but I have
re researched it for the purposes of the pod.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
So let me start from the beginning.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Travis Alexander was just a young guy, a salesman, a
motivational speaker for a company called pre Paid Legal Services,
living in Mesa, Arizona. Everybody loves this guy. He's got family,
he's got friends. He had a kind of a rough
childhood growing up, like he had abusive, drug addicted parents,
but he, you know, overcame everything and had like a

(43:16):
great professional life and lots of friends, and everybody spoke
of him.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
Like he was just the greatest, nicest guy.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
But of course he's like he's about to hit thirty,
and he's Mormon and he's not married, so he is
sort of like people are kind of like, when are
you going to settle down?

Speaker 3 (43:32):
Blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
So in September of two thousand and six, Travis meets
a hot, young bottle blonde named Jody Arius at a
Prepaid Legal conference in Las Vegas. Okay, these two immediately
hit it off. They have chemistry. They start talking on
the phone like multiple is.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
The prepaid part important? Yeah, it's called that's the name
of the place.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
It's called the the place called PPL pre Paid Legal,
And I think that's like their services are, like it's
probably similar to like who set up my business account?
You go like on the internet and like get all
these legal services like in a bubble. I thought they
like prepaid for their tickets to the conference.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
And it's like, is this a clue.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Oh no, that's the name of the business.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, the name of the business is Prepaid Legal. So
they start talking on the phone all the time, high
school style. She lives in Palm Desert, California, shout out
to Palm Springs area, and he lives in Mace, Arizona.
So they're long distance and to give you an idea
of how quickly things are moving, they meet in September
of two thousand and six, and in November of two
thousand and six, Jody is baptized by Travis in a

(44:37):
Mormon ceremony. So they're not even dating yet. They're just
talking on the phone and they have this crazy chemistry.
But I think she's so into the idea of dating
him and like he's into her that like they probably know,
like this can't really go any further.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
If I'm not Mormon.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
So she starts like the process of I don't really
know what the Mormon conversion process is. All I read
was that she was baptized in this Mormon ceremony.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, I bet it's like all you have to do
is want to be a Mormon and dunk in a
lake like they're desperate for new followers.

Speaker 4 (45:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
And we actually just watched my big fact Greek wedding
yesterday starring me of Ardalas, and her husband gets baptized in.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
The Greek Orthodox Church to marry her.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
So I just watched a weird baptism of a grown
man yesterday, but this was a woman, and he did
it for her. And then they begin dating in February
of two thousand and seven. I don't know if they
had like a busy Christmas season. I don't know why
they couldn't start dating right after the dunk, but I
guess you know. So, premarital sex in the Mormon Church
is a huge no no.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
But they these two are banging like it is their job.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
They're having tons and tons of sex. His friends all
think Jody is very weird. She's very sexual. She like
straddles him like this, one I watched this twenty twenty
about it, where this one woman's like me and my
husband are just with them in a hot tub, the
four of us, and she's straddling him forward facing and
like kissing his neck while the other two of us

(45:55):
are in the hot tub. Like she's very awkward, but
a lot of that was part of her asserting her
ession of him, and like she's very possessive. She goes
through his phone, she goes through his email, his social
media and stuff, and she's just very like they just
seem like they have this extremely sexual and intense relationship.
They break up in June of two thousand and seven,

(46:15):
so this is like a four or five month relationship.
They do keep up the physical stuff they've got. They
have a ton of phone sex, they exchange all many
many horny texts, and a lot of it is him initiating.
It's not just like I don't want to paint the
picture that like she's a full stalker. Like they're both
going back and forth, but you get the feeling that
he treats her like a sex object and not like
marriage material. You know, like he texts her how beautiful

(46:38):
she is, He text her how bad. He wants to
fuck her and stuff like that, but like not, you
know what I mean, it's not the same uh as
somebody he would probably marry. Oh, and then this is
relevant to something that happens in the episode. He does
text her at one point saying I'm going to tie
you to a tree and put it in your ass.
And oh, sorry, that's not even a text that's in

(47:00):
a taped conversation, and she goes, oh my gosh, that
is so debasing.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
I like it.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
So that's like exactly kind of like wow texts that
we're seeing from Jean and uh Lena in episode Okay,
after they break up, she does a totally normal thing
and moves from California.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
To Arizona to be near him.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
She moves to Mesa, Arizona, like the town he lives in,
and so his friends are all like, this girl is psycho.

Speaker 3 (47:27):
He's been dating another girl.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
And twice while he's at this girl's house, he comes
out and his tires are slashed, So like, obviously they
think that's Jody. That's not just like a thing that
keeps happening at this girl's house.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
So they never got married. Oh no, no, no, So
he's just this.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
I guess I assumed he was a virgin till thirty
waiting for marriage, but he was a slutty Mormon.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
Who's slutty Mormon? Okay.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
And we find out a little bit later that they
do do a lot of anal sex because like you
know how Mormons will think that that's not real sex
or whatever, like anal and oral, but then they all
have regular like penetrative vaginal sex. And so yes, he's
breaking Mormon rules left and right because he's like so
horny for her. You can like tell when you see
these text messages and hear these recorded conversations like that

(48:11):
they are just like little fuck machines for each other.
So not to speak ill of the dead, but he
was very horny for his murderer. And not to blow,
not to blow the thing. But I think everyone knows
how this ends. One funny thing I think in that
they're highlighting in a lot of these news things is
that they both have blogs. Like I just think it's
very mid aughts to be like then he wrote on

(48:32):
his blog X and she wrote on her blog why.
And it's just so funny because like, I don't know,
I never had a blog like that, but it's so
that time period, so they'll talk about these like, I mean,
I just saw did you watch the fuck what was
it called?

Speaker 3 (48:48):
The Murder Hotel one? Hotel Cecil?

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Yeah, the Hotel's Cecil Hotel one, Like everything in that
whole like documentary series, was like her blog and like
it's always cryptic shit that doesn't mean anything, like he
writes on his Oh, she writes on her blog, I
cannot ignore that there is an ever present yearning and
desire that pulses within me. It throbs for gratification and fulfillment.
What are you even talking about? And then Travis writes

(49:13):
desperately trying to find out if my date has an
axe murderer penned up inside of her, Okay, a little
bit more specific, So he obviously is thinking I might
be dating a psycho, but I'm obviously very horny for her.
So during the first week of June two thousand and eight,
Travis tells his friends that he thinks Jody maybe hacked
into his Facebook, and he said that he told her

(49:34):
to stay out of his life forever. So this could
have been the triggering moment for Jody where she was like,
if I can't have you. Nobody can because then on
June fourth, she drives to Mesa, Arizona, from California.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
They have sex.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
They have a lot of sex, and they take all
these sexually explicit photos which you can see in the
Huffington Post slide show that I mentioned earlier, if you're interested.
There are black bars over the naughty bits, but the
photos are there.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
And then nobody hears from Travis.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
After June fourth, for a few days, okay, Jodi drives
to go visit this Mormon meatthead guy that she started
to date in Utah that she also met at another
prepaid legal conference.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
This girls like a conference.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Rat, and he says that they make out passionately. That
her and this guy they don't have sex, but he
says it doesn't seem like she's got anything on her mind.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
Nothing seems off with her at all.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
On June ninth, five days later, friends have not heard
from Travis.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
They go to his apartment.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
What I think is weird is in the twenty twenty
thing they say he has roommates, and I'm like, was
nobody home like?

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Because he is found.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
When they go into his apartment, they find that his
apartment is covered in blood. He is dead in the shower,
decomposing and starting to mummify, like when they go into
the room, they can smell immediately.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
So I don't understand why.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
These roommates didn't like sense anything. Maybe they were out
of town.

Speaker 5 (50:57):
I think he lived in a house and he had
his own wing of the house type situation. Oh okay,
well he had housemates, that's right, and they were like
on a different side. So maybe they just missed each
other coming in and.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
Out or something.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
Yeah, that's creepy if I knew I was sleeping for
four days and nights with like my dead roommate in
my house.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
Oh my god. Anyway, nightmare fuel.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
So his wounds are so extensive, it's like very very disturbing.
So you know, I don't know, fast forward thirty seconds
if you don't want to hear about this, But he's
been stabbed twenty seven times. His throat is slit, like
very deeply, like it's cut his voice box, his arteries,
like it's a very deep like ear to ear slit,
and he's been shot in the head with a twenty

(51:37):
five caliber gun.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
So the scene is.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Really really horrific, like splatter everywhere, it's like a dexter situation.
They find a bloody print, like I read a fingerprint,
but I also read palm print, but it's like a
bloody print, and they find a hair. Basically a week
after the body is found, Jody voluntarily goes to the
Mesa Pola department and it's like, I really want to help.

(52:02):
I heard that my friend Travis died. And this is
just like textbook narcissism, Like she just needs to insert
herself into the case. I mean, we've seen this obviously
on stview a million times, but it's wild that she
literally called them, Like it wasn't like they called her
in and they're like, we're calling in all friends of Travis,
all ex girlfriends or whatever. Like she went to them,
she gave fingerprints, she gave a DNA sample, and she

(52:24):
said she hadn't seen Travis since April. So the crazy
piece of evidence in this case that people talk about
and is the most I think interesting, is that is
a digital camera that they find in the washing machine.
It's been run through the wash cycle. Now, on the
memory card they find photos that have been deleted. But

(52:44):
as you should all know, nothing is ever really deleted.
Like you delete something, it still exists somewhere, Like I
don't know. It's like very hard to really really delete things,
except for like papers I wrote in college, where I'd
be almost done and then it would disappear.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
Or maybe that was an excuse I used. I don't remember.
But the memory card they obviously recover.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
They have their own Taru person and they recover these
photos that are all these sexual photos of Travis and Jody,
and then these kind of aready type photos of Travis
in the shower, like him with his arms up or
like leaning against the tile with the water running on him.
You can see all these photos in the slide show.
And then there's literally a photo of his body on

(53:26):
the floor of the bathroom, bloody and like have being
just been attacked. So like it's very crazy because you're
just scrolling, scrolling, and like it's like larty photo, arty photo,
and then just like a dead body, it's like or
a suffering body, like it's I don't it's unclear if
he's fully dead in the photo, but it's beyond it's
really really nuts. So again I'm not I'm not trying

(53:47):
to say that this podcast is Kara and Lisa's school
for how to get away with murder. But like, why
would you just like wash a digital camera and leave
it there. Why wouldn't you're on your way to Utah
to visit your other boyfriend. Why don't you just throw
it out the window in the desert. I don't understand
why this girl did this, but she thought I guess
that water was just going to fully destroy the camera.
She also stripped the beds and like washed all the sheets.

(54:07):
There's just a lot of strange stuff. But like then
none of the blood was cleaned up. I mean, it's
very or the bloody palm print, so all these photos
are time stamped. The police know immediately that she's lying
about not having seen him since April, that she was
definitely with him the day that he died.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
And then the DNA results come.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Back, and all the forensic results come back, and the
hair belongs to Jody, and the bloody print had Jody's
DNA and Trump and Travis's DNA.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
And in theory, she could have just went to hang
out with another boyfriend and never called them or talked
to them, and they would never have her DNA or
find her.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Yeah, well, I think once they found the pictures, they
would have they would have brought her in, you know,
on the camera.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Yeah, but if she took the camera, I'm saying if
there was like oh yeah, if she took the camera,
if she if she just took the camera and hung
out and never talked to them, they would probably have
not found her for a while or not found her yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Or yeah, because they would have had to have like
a reason to get her DNA, Like I don't know. Yeah,
it's it's wild, like how she almost wanted to get caught,
but she has this weird personality that you find out
about more later that it's like did she just want
to be like infamous and be famous in a way,
Like it's she's very very strange person. So they have

(55:21):
her in for interrogation and she's denying having anything to
do with the murder. She's just like, I want to
help you, guys, Like this is all on video. You
can watch all of this, and it's like kind of fascinating.
She's just like, yeah, I have no idea what happened.
I want to help you, like what went on? And
like so then she's talking to this detective, Detective Flores,
and he basically like brings out the smoking gun eventually

(55:41):
and is like, hey, we have these photos that are
timestamped of you there, and there's a photo of him
bleeding in the shower. And she's like, are you sure
it's me in the photos? And it's like, yes, bitch,
it's you in the photos. And then she changes her story,
like on a dime, to tell this wild tale that
is here on out referred to as the ninja story.

(56:03):
And the ninja story is that two people in ski
masks did a home invasion, entered the house to specifically
attack Travis and kill Travis. So there's a man and
a woman ninja. She fought the woman ninja, and the
man ninja fought Travis, and she said they killed Travis.
She heard the gun go off. She kind of blacked out.

(56:24):
She doesn't remember a lot of stuff that happened. And
then the woman she was able to push past them
or something like that, and they were like, just you
leave and never tell anyone this happened. Like they came
in to murder Travis and let a complete.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
Witness just leave. That's what her story is.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
And the investigator is straight up like, okay, bitch, that's
the craziest shit.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
I've ever heard.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
This is like, not true, and then he tells her
that they're going to book her, and she goes, I
know this is going to sound like really weird or shallow,
but is there any way I can clean myself up
a little bit before you take my mugshot and like
my book like book me? And he's like, no, you're
going in a you are like, we're not giving you
a hair and makeup sessh before you get your fucking

(57:04):
like mugshot taken. And then the detective leaves her alone
in the room and you can see this all on
YouTube or on like the twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
Special I watched about this case.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
She starts acting crazy like and this reminds me of
Amanda an Ox a little bit. You know how Amanda
Knox case, Like she was her roommate had just been murdered,
and she was like making out with her boyfriend and
doing cartwheels and shit on the side. Like it is
weird behavior, But with Jody Arius, it's even stranger because
she's like in police custody and they've just told her
we're going to book you.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
She like puts her whole body back over her chair.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
And does this weird like yoga backbend over her chair
that is like weirdly sexual. And then she starts singing,
Oh Holy Night. She's just like singing, which I have
to admit as a Jew. That is my favorite Christmas song.
I do love a Holy Night, And now she's kind
of fucking ruined it for me because I'm going to
think about her every time I hear it.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
And then she does a headstaine. She does a full headstand.
Jingle bells, Oh I love I like.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Jingle bells, but oh Holy Night is my is my favorite.
I just think it's a beautiful song.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
She sounds like a mad TV character. No, she's happens so.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Strange, Like she's so strange, and it's very bizarre and performative,
like she must know people are watching.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
She might, you know, Like it's just so weird.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
She does a full head stand up against the wall
and it's very weird. So if you want to google
Jody Area's headstand, you can watch the whole video. Is
it a good headstand? Yeah, I mean she's very fit.
You know, you can tell that she works out. She's
very thin, and like, you know, she just goes right
up in this graceful headstand and you're just like damn girl,
but also you crazy. So while she awaits trial, she

(58:44):
does all these interviews. Okay, so in her first interviews,
she maintains her innocent. She's like, God knows, I'm innocent.
I know I'm innocent. I had nothing to do with
his murder. I would never hurt him. He was my friend.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
A year in two thousand and nine, she starts giving
interviews about the ninja story. Okay, well, no, I mean
people are maybe believing this.

Speaker 4 (59:04):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
It really makes no fucking sense. December of twenty ten,
which is crazy. She's now in jail like a year
and a half, just like a waiting trial and obviously
not getting bail because of the heinous nature of the crime.
In December of twenty ten, she beats out fifty other
inmates in an American Idol style Christmas caroling contest with
her rendition of a Holy Night, and the contest is

(59:28):
held by Joe Arpaio, that fucking cowboys sheriff, that Trump
liked America's toughest sheriff, and the prize that she won
was a stocking full of like treats and a turkey
dinner for herself and her cellmates.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
So I saw that's also there's also a video of that.
She's okay. I wouldn't give her a record contract, but
she's a fine singer. I love this case.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
I'm so sad about the murder and whatever transpired, but
I'm very into the antics.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
It's so crazy. It's antic central, and I don't.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Understand why SVU and throw us a singing competition in
this episode. Let's get Lena in jail, but it's like
X Factor because they have to change it a little bit.
So it's just like inmates turning around in their chairs
being like I pick you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
And so she's giving all these interviews. She's like winning
American Idol contest in jail. She's just getting all this
press and like, obviously Travis's family is like devastated.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
They loved him. You can tell how much they loved.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Him in all these interviews, Like and then they see
this pretty young woman getting all this media coverage and
it must have just been very devastating for them to
have to see her all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
And I mean it gets worse.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Let me get to what is her third and final
version of her story, which is that she claims that
she was the victim of domestic violence and that she
was that she killed Travis in self defense. And one
more thing, she claims that Travis was a pedophile. She
claims that he wrote her letters where he confessed to

(01:00:54):
his attraction to young boys and girls.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
The letters were like never found or I think a
judge tried to.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Have them admitted, and they were not admitted because I
don't think they were real.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
And they found nothing on.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
His computers, like nothing in his house that showed that
he might have had these kind of proclivities or you
know that he was into that kind of thing. She
claims that the day of the murder, she walked in
he was masturbating to a picture of a young boy.
They never found the picture. Is that something you grabbed
on your way out of the house, Like the photo
was never there. So basically, her third and final version

(01:01:28):
of the story is that she did kill him in
self defense.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
I'll get into it a little bit more later.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
And then she tries to completely attack his character and
for his family, like they talk about it in this
documentary twenty twenty, thing like where that was so hard
for them. Not only have you lost this family member,
but now his killer is painting this insane picture of
him that's not true, and that is like disrespectful and horrible.

(01:01:53):
So her trial begins on January second of twenty thirteen,
and she's a totally different looking person. This is again
something they borrow a SVU. Like, she's not blonde anymore.
She's got this dark, dark brunette hair. She's got bad bangs, glasses,
Cardigan City. And I want to say she looks like
a librarian, but we have a lot of librarian listeners
who are probably hot, so maybe this is an outdated reference,

(01:02:14):
but you do get my point. She is definitely playing
up the like mousey. Like in all the photos of
her and Travis, you never see her wearing glasses, and
suddenly in court she's got like specs on every day
and is like, oh, you know, like looking so meek
and like trying to be cute. The prosecutor in this
case is a man named Juan Martinez, and in his
opening statement, he played part of this media interview she

(01:02:37):
had given in the years prior where she said, mark
my words, no jury will convict me. She later said
that when she said that, she meant that she had
been planning to end her life by suicide and that
no jury will convict me because I won't be alive.
But it's like, okay, okay, that's not how it came out.
But I think obviously he's trying to use that to say,

(01:03:00):
paint this picture of like a sociopath who is orchestrating
a full defense of herself.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
That's not real. Yeah, that's what we forget.

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
We always talk about how good like murderers are such
good actors, but some are just bad liars and actors too,
you know, like, yeah, this is a great example of
someone who just really failed her improv one on one class,
just can't get it together.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
But she, I think believed like they were talking about
when she was making up the ninja story, I mean
she made that up on the spot because that she
made that up right after she said I wasn't there
and I didn't do anything. When they confronted her, she
was like, Okay, here's what happened with the ninjas. It's like,
so she either had that pre prepared or she made
it up on the spot. And like, even though it
was a batshit story, the detective was like, she did

(01:03:43):
have a lot of details, Like she knew a lot
of details, but you know, still not good enough. One
crazy thing that the detective testified about. Detective Flores said
that Jody had written a check to Travis for two
hundred dollars for like a car payment before he died,
and she really wanted to know if he had cashed

(01:04:04):
it before he died, like over two hundred dollars. She
emails his sister about the check to offer her condolences
and find out about the check. Needless to say, the
sister never replied. I just had This doesn't have much
to do with anything. I just thought it was an
interesting tidbit. So here was what made this trial so

(01:04:25):
crazy is that she testified in her own defense, and
that was something she insisted on. She insisted on testifying,
and she testified for eighteen days, which is like unprecedented.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Apparently, like I it's.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
Maybe happened before, but it's not a common thing, especially
in a case that's getting so much media coverage. And
I think she thought I got to get my face
out there, I got to be heard. He once people
see how like cute and like shy and demure I am,
they'll never think that I could have done such a
heinous crime, and so her defense that what she testifies
about on the stand is that Travis freaked out when

(01:04:59):
she dropped camera and that she had to defend herself.
She says he screamed at her, kicked her, and body
slammed her. But they brought in other witnesses, people that
had dated him, and like, no one in his life
ever said he had a temper.

Speaker 4 (01:05:12):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
I mean, I do think there are cases like this
where men can show a different side, you know, of themselves.
But like they brought in other women he dated, They
brought in next girlfriends. They were like, never, never, ever,
did he ever do anything remotely violent or show a
temper towards me. Obviously there's only the two people in
a relationship know what goes on in that relationship. But
you're not getting it's not we're not getting a picture

(01:05:35):
that this is an abusive guy. And then later the
jury foreman, whose name was William Zervakos, he said that
he thinks the eighteen days on the stand hurt her.
He was like, she's not a good witness, Like it
was not good for her to be on the stand
for that long, and like just she just gave the
prosecution so much, Amuli, I.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Wish she broke out into song that way. I know
that would have really since this is my favorite case
of her.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
She was like, there's one song that can express how
I feel, and then she like sings Lady Marmaline.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
Arizona is one of the states where jurors are allowed
to ask questions after the prosecution and the defense have rested.
They asked a hundred questions, and that really showed how
skeptical they were about her testimony. So there was a
clinical psychologist for the prosecution named Janine Demart. Her name

(01:06:29):
is spelled j A N E E N. A very
interesting take on Janine, and she said that there was
no evidence that Alexander had ever abused Arius and no
evidence of PTSD or amnesia, and that she claimed all
this total memory loss like for this long period of time,
which is kind of inconsistent with how traumatic amnesia works
with PTSD, Like I think it's more snatches of memory,

(01:06:51):
whereas she's like, yeah, and then just for four hours,
I don't remember anything, Like that's kind of not how
it works. So this clinical psychologist said she thought that
Arius was suffering from borderline personality disorder and showed signs
of immaturity and quote an unstable sense of identity. And
I think that is true when you watch some of
the docs about her and stuff, like when she met Travis,

(01:07:14):
she kind of didn't know what she was doing with
her life, like she wanted to be a photographer, but
that wasn't really working out, and then she I think
got a job for prepaid legal and that's how she
met him, and so she was kind of trying to
figure out, you know, who she was. And then I
think converting to Mormonism two months after you meet someone
as a red flag, Like she didn't have any idea
who she was, and it's probably part of a larger diagnosis.

(01:07:37):
But so then after the trial finally concluded on May seventh,
so it started on January second, so it's like a
five month trial, the media is wrapped. After fifteen hours
of deliberation, Arius has found guilty of first degree murder,
and out of twelve jurors, five of them found her
guilty of first degree premeditated murder and seven her guilty

(01:08:00):
of both first degree premeditated murder and felony murder. And
then the next phase of her trial was the death
penalty because.

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
People really wanted her to get the death penalty.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
The first trial for her death penalty sentencing was like
a mistrial because, like I think, the jury just could
not decide, and then eventually she was given life in prison,
so she was able to avoid the death penalty. She
did testify it her death penalty hearing, saying I've designed
a T shirt and it's like this white T shirt

(01:08:33):
that just says survivor and purple on it, and it's
just like everything about her rings inauthentically. You know, it's like,
no one not thought you were a domestic abuse survivor
until this case happened, and now you're just making this
weird slapshot T shirt that's like that's what you're going
to sell or something like.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
She was very strange. She would have actually done good
out here in the world.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
Oh, she was doing merch. Girl, she has she was
doing merch. Her brothers opened an eBay account where she
sells art she makes in prison.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
There's all kinds of shit this girl is doing.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
So does she have like lover fans like male killers do,
like our people.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
I'm sure, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
Sure I didn't read anything about that, but like, I
am sure that she does.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
How do you think our friend Joyce Arts Management will
react when I start buying Jody arias?

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
Do you think they can get d I would love
to find out from her how serial killer art is like,
or killer art is like valued, and how it appreciates
over time.

Speaker 5 (01:09:33):
I do have to know Jody did have a boyfriend
for a while. I remember that in NGEL. Yeah, I
would visit it a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure like she's I mean,
she's like a cute girl, Like I'm sure people were like,
you're so she also and this might.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
Be rude because like, obviously it's sad this man is dead.
But I do wonder if the victim was a woman
not a guy, if they would have used her sexual.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Kinks against her to be like she deserved it. No,
I know, And I wonder. I think that what everybody
was saying was like this case was so it was
so popular because it was like dripping with sex.

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
That's like what the people were saying, like there was
just so much sex.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
There's so many text messages where they're like she's like
we're just horny toads, Like I want to fuck you
so bad, like my pussy's wet, Like she sends all
these crazy texts. There's recorded message, Like there's recorded phone
conversations though that are recorded because she recorded them to
use them against him later, Like she would record these
sexual conversations with him, like I think in a way
to say, like if you ever leave me, I'll send

(01:10:35):
these to.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
The Mormon church.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
So she had some issues, and I yeah, I don't
think that anyone's like sexual kinks should be used against them,
But I think because of the Mormon community that she
was in and the fact that she was doing all
this other possessive, crazy shit, it all kind of paints
a picture of a person who's not fully with it.
I did want to mention that they tried to appeal

(01:10:58):
this case, saying, you know, because of the media, she
didn't get a fair trial, and also because Juan Martinez,
who I mentioned, was the prosecutor. He got into some
trouble because he was accused of leaking the identity of
one of the jurors and sexually harassing female law clerks
in his office. Like apparently he had a real my
eyes are up here one kind of problem, like he

(01:11:19):
would literally just stare at women's chests and is built
in his office, and women in his office would like
always kind of like duck into conference rooms when he
was around because they didn't want to deal with his leering.
But I think he ended up getting disbarred because of
he was in a sexual relationship with a blogger that
he leaked this jurors information. Again, blogs huge part of

(01:11:41):
this case. So in the end, she is still in
jail in Arizona. Apparently she started a Twitter account and
wrote I don't know if I'm going to plea or appeal,
and that was late in twenty fifteen, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
But she's still in jail.

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
And I even after the disbarment of this prosecutor, the
judges who decide whether she's going to get an appeal said,
even though he had egregious behavior, you were convicted like completely.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
Correctly, and you're not going anywhere. Baby. I wonder if
she's popular in prison.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
I am obsessed with her, Like I do understand the
commotion the world had, yeah, and I want to know, like.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
Is she like, damn, that wasn't worth it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
I'm in jail, or she like still thinks she's innocent,
or is she just crushing it? In jail and she's
so crazy that it doesn't matter, and she's living in
a fantasyland like I just want to know everything.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
Yeah, she's very chaotic and art good or gen z.
But I think that is what drop people to it,
like what you're just like full and you get the
feeling that she believes everything that she's saying because like
in her mind maybe it's true, but she It just

(01:12:54):
to me is like the whole They dated for four months,
you know, and I know that they kept up the
sexual relationship, but the murder. And I will say, if
you're gonna go look up this slide show that I
am referencing and that will be in our show notes.
The graphic the photos of the crime scene are very graphic,
like they do show his body, and like it's just
so such an aggressive crime. It wasn't just like if

(01:13:16):
I can't have you, no one can, I'm gonna shoot
you in the head, Like just the stabbing. I mean,
like there is anger in this murder. So it's like, ugh,
I don't know what, Yeah, like.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
Was it about him or would she have killed someone
else the next boyfriend?

Speaker 3 (01:13:29):
Yeah, yeah, who knows?

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
Wow, But I think it's it's interesting how SBU did
sort of like this. They took this case, but this
case is very like Arizona Mormons, like they so they
took whatever they could and like put it in a
New York setting, you know, in the SV episode. But
it is just like I always want to believe women,
and I do think that it is a small, small,

(01:13:53):
small percentage of people like this that are or like
the Lena character, that are fully inventing a scenario and
having up you.

Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
Know, psychology.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
Yeah, And I always say, like, you know, people lie
about being robbed or insurance scams or so many different crimes,
and it never takes away the legitimacy of other people
who have been robbed. And I don't understand how only
in rape and sexual assault cases are a few like
this tiny population that lies is not just seen as like, oh,

(01:14:25):
these people are unwell and committing other crimes. Yeah, sent
women lie, but it's like Ryan Lochtey straight up was
like I got robbed during the Olympics, fully lied and
no one cared and everyone just believed him anyways, And
everyone can still say they're robbed and it doesn't it
mean that men lie.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
And so it is very annoying that like.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
Why the small percentage of women suddenly represent all the
women that are attacked.

Speaker 3 (01:14:52):
I mean, I know why patriarchy, but no, that is
such a good point.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
I never thought about that, Like this is the only
kind of case where like the bad actions of a
few affect the many. Yeah, as like that doesn't happen,
and like, yeah, like wrongful accusations of robbery or like
larceny or fucking tax evasion or whatever. I think it
because it's always it's always couched as this crazy bitch

(01:15:18):
is trying to take this man's life down, is trying
to ruin this man's life, and it's like in this case, yes,
but that is a very small percentage.

Speaker 4 (01:15:28):
I think.

Speaker 5 (01:15:28):
The topic of religion also is interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:15:31):
Of Travis. Alexander was a very devout man.

Speaker 5 (01:15:34):
He wore like a ring I think for like being
a verge, and then he fell in love I think,
or had this passionate thing for Jodie, and.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
So he was torn.

Speaker 5 (01:15:42):
But he broke it up because he was like, I
know I'm doing something wrong, but he was so yeahing
towards her, like it makes I don't know, I just
feel like the idea of religion as a thing.

Speaker 3 (01:15:50):
No, it's so true.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
Really, the whole the religion thing does add like another
layer to it because it's like in any other world,
if he wasn't religious, he could have just like been
having sex with this woman or wouldn't have been the
shame and they could just be horny for each other.

Speaker 3 (01:16:01):
But I mean I.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
Think also, yeah, I think it was like another It
was probably another thing where that made Jody feel inadequate
or like an outsider and probably fueled like the rage more,
you know, like I got baptized for you, you son
of a bitch?

Speaker 3 (01:16:17):
Like who knows? You know, like what, who knows what
went through her mind?

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
I hope I would love for her to do some
kind of like jailhouse confessional and say, like here's what
I was thinking, or like, you know, you're not getting
out of jail anytime in your life, so you might
as well give us some insight into what the hell
was going through your mind, Like did you drive there
specifically to do that? Did it like just hit you
at some point or did he say did he say
that's the last time.

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
We're ever doing this or something?

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
After you guys had all this horny sex and then
you were like, you know, like I don't know, Well,
we won't know until she tells us.

Speaker 3 (01:16:49):
Or were their ninjas, you know? Or were their ninjas? Lisa.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
This is like when that guy in that episode said
I saw ghosts of the KKK in the hallway and
you were like, we can't say he didn't. So the
ninjas could also be The ninjas could also be real.

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
Well, we have a hot ass guest. Can't wait?

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
Yeah, excited, stick around. We'll be right back with our guest,
our next guest. We're so excited to bring you this chat.
He is a stage actor who originated the role of
Greg in Neil Abute's Reasons to Be Pretty, where he
was nominated for a Tony and you know him from

(01:17:33):
TV from HBO's The Newsroom and Life in Pieces, but
on SVU you know him as Nate Davis. Check out
our chat with the very talented Thomas Sadowski.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
We did watch all of your episodes, so if you
want to talk about.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
Yeah, you're a three pete defender on SVO.

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
Murder Douche and then you come back to redeem yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:17:56):
A little bit, right. I actually managed to show up
and get a little bit of a yeah, yeah, I
did the the Sbu gambit. I think I did the
trifecta of all the Law and Order shows, if I
remembered quickly, I did the original recipe, Extra Crispy and
the Colonel's Blend. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
Well, a lot of actors we talked to say that
it's like a rite of passage to get on the
Law and Order shows. As a New York actor, did
you feel that way when you got booked?

Speaker 4 (01:18:25):
Oh? Yeah, for sure. I mean, not only is it
a right of passage, but particularly like when I first
started coming up in the business in the late nineties
and early two thousands, there wasn't a whole lot of
stuff that was shooting in New York. And like definitely
post nine to eleven, like there wasn't really anything that
was shooting in like the industry bailed on New York.

(01:18:48):
So the only people that were really stuck around it
was like Rescue Me and Dick Woolf, like all of
his shows were the only ones that stuck in New York.
So for theater actors, for actors, but you know, primarily
for theater actors, you know, who were making four hundred
dollars a week off Broadway, you know, before taxes and

(01:19:08):
union dues, those those shows like literally kept people in
their homes, you know. So to get to get hired
on on a Law and Order gig was a life saver.
And it was a total rite of passage, you know.
And and it's one of those great things where you know,
after you've done it and you've joined the I don't

(01:19:29):
call it the fraternity, but you join the you know,
you join the club. Anywhere you go in the world,
you can turn on one of the Law and Orders
and you can see, you know, some of your old
friends from back in the back in the city like
doing their thing. Yeah, it's it's it's an amazing little world.
I for for the rest of my days, I will
appreciate mister Woolf for what he did for the city

(01:19:51):
and for actors in the city, and for none and
for you know, writers and the crew. Not a lot
of people have had the the decency to stick around
after the eleventh when we when we really needed people,
and he did so for all the ups and downs
in his weird pink socks. I really like the guy.

Speaker 3 (01:20:11):
Wait, what are the weird Wait?

Speaker 4 (01:20:13):
Okay, So every time I've ever gone into meet with
Dick Wolf. He's been wearing pink socks.

Speaker 3 (01:20:22):
Wow, goop.

Speaker 4 (01:20:25):
I don't know if that's like a daily thing or
if it's just one of those weird coincidences in my life,
but I always associate I always associated mister Wolf of
pink socks.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
Well, I was gonna say, not only are all your
friends are on SVU, but your wife Amanda has been
on SVU.

Speaker 3 (01:20:41):
Have you seen her episode?

Speaker 4 (01:20:43):
I have seen her episode. We were actually talking about
it when I told her I was doing this podcast
that was well SVU and she was like, she was like,
I did this for you, and I'm like, I know
you did this for you, Like Michael O'Keefe played your father.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
No, and we found Michael O'Keeffe as one of our
first guests on the podcast, and both of.

Speaker 4 (01:21:01):
You guys, oh, that's very nice. I should hope you
had Michael on the Patent podcast because he literally there
was a rule that was put in place called the foul.
Did he tell you about this?

Speaker 3 (01:21:13):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:21:13):
He told us, Okay, good, Yeah, Yeah. He should have
been like among the first guests you ever had because
he is mister lawn order. I think he's the only
person who has appeared on those shows as much as
like Maloney or Marishka or you know or Sam or
any of the old school heavies. But yeah, yeah, I

(01:21:34):
love Michael. He's a great dude, he's a he's a
good friend family.

Speaker 3 (01:21:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
So so basically you did do you did do original
recipe and then you did this Criminal Intent all before
you did this view. So by the time you did
this view where they just like calling you in being
like we want you to do this part.

Speaker 4 (01:21:50):
Yeah, okay, Yeah, So Warren called me, Warren like called
me for SEU and said, like, you know, do you
want to come in and play this part opposite Kelly?
And I was like, yeah, totally absolutely, and he was like,
I don't know, you know, it might come back and
might not. I'm not sure what the deal is going
to be with it whatever, And I was like okay,
So I agreed to come in and do it, and

(01:22:13):
we had a blast shooting the first episode and they
sort of mentioned like, yeah, I think we'll probably do
this again. But I Warren and I from like from
the jump, from like my first day on set, we
were in like a tiff, a little tussle about that hat.

Speaker 3 (01:22:34):
That we have like three questions about the hat.

Speaker 4 (01:22:39):
I'm sure you do. I had many as well. I
was like, I was like, Warren, why do I have
to wear this douche hat? And he was like, because
you're a douche And I was like no, but can
I take it off in some of these scenes? And
he was like, no, you're a douche, so you wear
the douche hat. And I was like, bro, like, I'm
really unhappy with the douche hat. And it was like,

(01:23:00):
I kind of don't care, Like I think it it
has to be on all the time. And we had
a lot of fun of knocking it back and forth.
But I, you know, I sort of like a cringe
at the prospect of people going back and watching those
episodes of that hat.

Speaker 3 (01:23:16):
That is so funny.

Speaker 1 (01:23:17):
We literally have like in our list of questions, like so, uh,
you play a douchebag a bunch of times?

Speaker 3 (01:23:22):
How do you like to? Because the hat really does
the layer. There were so many layers.

Speaker 4 (01:23:29):
Yes, so many layers. I threatened to throw that hat
into the East River. There was a scene I think
we were shooting outside.

Speaker 3 (01:23:40):
You were like walking her dog right by.

Speaker 4 (01:23:42):
The room, walking her dog. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and
and we we shot that like you know, like oh
dark hundred, so it was wick and cold, and I
remember threatening Warren like, if you think for a second
that you're going to have me back a second episode
and make me wear this hat, I'm going to go

(01:24:02):
throw it in the river right now. And he was like,
do you think we only bought one?

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
When you did come back that same season in the
Gridiron Soldier episode, I.

Speaker 3 (01:24:12):
Don't think you have the hat anymore?

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:24:14):
Did you win the battle?

Speaker 4 (01:24:15):
I eventually won the battle. Well, I think what ended
up happening is because there's a little bit of redemption
coming my way in that episode is that he felt
like if we kept the hat that I couldn't be redeemed.

Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
Exactly impossible to guess redevable.

Speaker 4 (01:24:31):
It is unforgivable. Absolutely, it is a blight upon humanity
and all who wear it are cursed. But that's really
how I differentiate my douchey characters that I played throughout
my career is just different hats and invests.

Speaker 1 (01:24:48):
Yeah, because I was just wondering, because you know, when
when we were finding out we were interviewing you, I
was like, oh, I remember him. I think I first
saw you in The Slap That was like the first
thing I saw you in.

Speaker 3 (01:24:58):
And your character is a little bit of a in
the Slap, right.

Speaker 4 (01:25:01):
Yeah, for sure, he's not the most pleasant guy at
the beginning, right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:25:06):
So I was like, I was just wondering. I was like, yeah,
we got we got the slap guy. We got this character.
Like do you feel like you often get cast in
these juicy roles or like you're you're good at it?
And like where do you get your inspiration from? Do
you know a lot of douches in your real life? Yeah,
if there's any names you can name, yeah, names, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:25:28):
It started to become like I started to get worried
at a certain point where I was like, I was like,
oh my god, is this how the world perceives me?
And I you know, I actually think weirdly that in
some strange way that it is the way that the
world kind of perceives me people who don't know me,
because like they've they they've seen you know a couple

(01:25:50):
of things that I've done, the Law and Orders and
the Slab and you know, in the early seasons in
the newsroom, and you know, some of the movie and
stuff that I've done, and I very often in my
film career have been asked to play these sort of
shithead characters. And it's so funny because in my theater

(01:26:14):
career it's the exact opposite.

Speaker 3 (01:26:17):
Like, oh, like the nice guy on stage.

Speaker 4 (01:26:20):
Yeah, yeah, I Oh. So it was when I first
started doing film, it was like, Oh, what a welcome change,
Like I get to play these this, these shitty guys
that I love making fun of because I grew up
around a lot of them. And then all of a
sudden it became like, oh, I keep on getting cast
uh in film as this, and most people know me

(01:26:42):
outside of New York from filmwork. Obviously not a lot
of people have seen off Broadway theater outside of New
York City, and so in an even Broadway, you know,
and so like it. I was like, it's this weird
juxtaposition I've had to sort of negotiating throughout my career.
But yeah, I mean, I the inspiration for me for
these people comes from, you know, a lot of people

(01:27:04):
that I grew up with, and then a shocking number
of people that I meet in the industry, particularly early on,
Like like I said, I came up in the late
nineties and early two thousands, sort of at the height
of the Weinstein power march, you know, when when you know,
Harvey used to like call an ex girlfriend of mine
at like two or three o'clock in the morning and

(01:27:24):
leave like really gnarly messages on her voicemail, like her
answering machine. Like long enough ago to where we had
answering machines, right and you could hear them, and like,
you know, there was like a whole way of behaving,
and there was a like a a generation of young
actor men that were coming up at that time who

(01:27:47):
were sort of highlighted by these dudes who like, like
you know, come across there's like sweet, funny kind of guys,
but we're actually sociopaths. And I just I really like
enjoyed watching those people and then taking the piss out

(01:28:08):
of them, at least in my own head by playing
these parts. And then you know, it was also just
sort of fun, like it's it's it's sometimes it's fun
to be the bad guys. Sometimes it's fun to be
the jackass that like nobody likes. Like I grew up
in a small, very hyper religious conservative town in Texas,
and I, you know, am not that at all, you

(01:28:30):
know what I mean. Like I was a kid who
had like a big giant queue in terms of my
sexuality in my teen years, you know, and was just like,
I don't know what I am. I like, you know,
I like pretty people, like there are a lot of them,
and I don't care what they're plumbing says, like, you know.

(01:28:50):
And so it was just like it was a so
like I kind of come preloaded with this weird anti
authoritarianism streak, you know, where I just like I kind
of enjoy like poking people in the eye and making
them uncomfortable, particularly people from that world. And so like
there was a part of me that like, you know,
I don't know, I just get a kick out of it.
I'm like, I'm acting like you and you don't even

(01:29:11):
know it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:13):
Did you do theater in high school?

Speaker 4 (01:29:15):
Oh yeah, for sure. I actually got kicked out of
my high school theater program.

Speaker 3 (01:29:19):
What did you do?

Speaker 4 (01:29:21):
Because our theater teacher wanted to do like these really
intensely Christian plays And I was like that's bullshit, Like
we're in a public high school. We can't do it.
Like that doesn't seem right to me at all. And
so like that started me off on the wrong track
with her pretty early on, and then I just, yeah,

(01:29:44):
I had a real hard time I had I didn't
respect her at all, and I had a really hard
time keep my mouth shut about it, you know. I mean,
like I said, I was like this weird little punk
rock kid in conservative talent. So, like, you know, me
and my friends were big time theater rats, but we

(01:30:05):
didn't really We saw it for what it should be
instead of what it was actually being. And so there
was a number of us that actually got removed from
the program, which actually turned out to be the best
thing that could have happened to me. I went out
and started doing community theater I think the junior year
of high school, and then people who ran the community
theater in my little town were actually people. There's a

(01:30:27):
wonderful man named Randy Wilson who was the original conscious
pilot in Jesus Christ Superstar on Broadway Oh Wow, and
then played Jesus Christ in the national tour. And so
he was like this amazing professional theater rat and ended
up in this small town because of like some family
drama and creating this community theater there, and it just

(01:30:49):
became like this safe space, this this amazing kind of
songa of like little reprobates and miscreants, and we all
just you know, we're there with each other, and it
was like, you know, adults and young people, and we
were all like just a little bit off and we
were building sets and making theater together in this little
building that used to be a Mexican restaurant in downtown Brian, Texas.

Speaker 3 (01:31:13):
And that's awesome.

Speaker 4 (01:31:16):
It was really beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:31:17):
It's just such a.

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
Nice like lesson in story to hear that you got
kicked out of this thing but then found a community
that you loved so much more and I got really lucky.

Speaker 4 (01:31:28):
Yeah. I mean I think that people you like finds
like right, like, if you make yourself available to it,
I think, and you persevere, you will eventually like you'll
find your your equilibrium and you'll find your tribe so
to speak.

Speaker 1 (01:31:42):
Yeah, can I ask an ask you question again?

Speaker 3 (01:31:45):
Did you did you ever like watch the show?

Speaker 4 (01:31:48):
Oh? Yeah, I love Maloney, I love Marisca, Like they're fantastic,
like truly truly amazing actors and so like, yeah, I
definitely watched the show. Like I said, you know, when
you go out of town, you like flip on and
it's like makes you feel like you're home.

Speaker 3 (01:32:01):
You can't ever not find it. It's always on the road.

Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
And your first episode you were on, you were on
a Marishka Maloney season.

Speaker 3 (01:32:10):
Yeah, although I think you may have been more.

Speaker 1 (01:32:11):
Of an Iced Tea heavy episode when you were in
that episode anchor where you're like a racist. Yeah, how
do you prep to be a child murderer? Yeah, when
you remember when you murdered all those kids.

Speaker 4 (01:32:22):
Oh my god, that was a nice heavy episode.

Speaker 3 (01:32:25):
And you called him a racial slur.

Speaker 4 (01:32:28):
I did, which was one of the I gotta tell you, dude,
like in terms of days in your career, when you're
like you don't really know if you want to wake
up in the morning and go to work, Like that day,
I was definitely I can't believe I have to go
in and say this to Iced Tea to his face.
Like I loved Iced Tea growing, you know what I mean,

(01:32:50):
Like I still do. Yeah. I was a huge fan
of him as a musician, and I was like, I
can't believe that I have to go in and say
this to him him, And like I wasn't sure how
I was gonna if it would be cool if I
went up to him and was like, dude, I'm so sorry,
you know what I mean, Like, I trust me, this
makes me so uncomfortable if I should just do it

(01:33:10):
or like what. And he was so generous and amazing
and gracious and wonderful about it. And then there's a
scene where he, uh he tackles me, like he stiff
arms me over a desk right before he arrests me.
And we ended up shooting that scene a lot, so

(01:33:33):
I feel like he he kept on asking for more takes,
so I sort of feel like he was really gracious
on the front side and definitely worked it out on
the backside of it.

Speaker 3 (01:33:43):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:33:47):
You did get like a razzle dazzle moment on the
stand with Barbara.

Speaker 3 (01:33:50):
Barbara, I keep.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
Going over with the da and I was just wondering
how that court scene was and like getting drilled like that.

Speaker 4 (01:34:00):
It's fun. I love I love Raoul. We're old like
theater rat buddies. So like when I knew that we
were going to get to go, you know, have like
a good time back and forth. And Danny Pino too.
You know, there was a in rapist Anonymous, there was
I got to do a scene with Danny, Yeah, who

(01:34:23):
came into the meeting at the end, you know what
I mean and like sort of suss me out or whatever.
And like I I've known Danny for god at this point,
like twenty two years, and I've known Raoul for about
as long too, and so like you know, when you
get the opportunity to to like get up there and
and have a good time with your buddies and you've
known for a long time and who's work you respect,

(01:34:44):
and there's just this sort of like fun thing that
happens where it's like you go like ah, yeah, man,
we're gonna we're gonna smack the ball back and forth,
you know, and these these people in Des Moines ain't
ready you know, ay ready, Like this is this is
what we do down on Bleaker Street. This is you know,
here we go, this is how this is how we do.

(01:35:05):
And like and you get to have a good time
with it, man, Like yeah, I really enjoyed that. Like
I said, I love Rebel, I respect the hell out
of it. So we we had a good song with
that for sure. You know, it's a long order stand scene,
like you know, it's, uh, that's a pretty cool thing
to get to do. It's a it's a it's a
it's you know, I feel like it's like an actor

(01:35:26):
merit badge. You know, not only did you get them
get the episode, but you've got a court scene. Yeah,
like you got to be on the stand, Like that's
the look.

Speaker 3 (01:35:33):
You got to be in that box. Yeah, that's so cool.

Speaker 4 (01:35:38):
Well, and like so many of them around to you
know what I mean. Like I've known Warren as a
playwright for forever, and I mean one of the great
My first my first Law and Order of the franchise
was with was in the original recipe, and it looked
like I was gonna shoot Sam Waterston in that episode.

(01:36:00):
There was there was a scene where like we're on
the courthouse steps and I pull out a gun and
like shoot the guy who's standing next to Sam. And
when Sam and I started working together on the newsroom,
like I came up to him and was like, hey, man,
I don't know if you remember, but like a billion
years ago, I played this part on Law and Order
and you know I had to shoot you on the
courthouse or almost shoot you on the courthouse steps or whatever.

(01:36:22):
And Sam was like I was on that show forever
I'm so sorry. You'll have to forgive me. But I don't.
I don't. I don't remember you at all. I'm like, oh,
it's okay, I get it, but yeah, I and then
get you know, years and years later. To get to

(01:36:44):
work with Sam like as as sort of compatriots on
the newsroom was a really cool thing. We got to
be really close buddies after that, which is nice.

Speaker 1 (01:36:53):
So our listeners really our horny for Raoul and Danny
and so do you have any like stories or tidbits
from set or from life that you think they would
really love to hear?

Speaker 4 (01:37:07):
Oh my god, Raoul did a play on Broadway with
Jeremy Piven, and Jeremy left the show.

Speaker 3 (01:37:19):
Was that speed the plow?

Speaker 4 (01:37:21):
Yeah, I just sort of left them hanging, you know
what I mean, like in the middle of the run
because he got murcury repeats, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:37:28):
He got mercury poisoning from too much sushi.

Speaker 4 (01:37:30):
I'm eating too much sushi, right, And so we were
doing a show on Broadway at the same time, me
and Stephen Pasquale and Hyperparabo, and we're in Ireland. We're
doing a show on Broadway at the same time. And
after our shows we were having people like guest artists
come in and like lead these q and as. And
then and Raoul came in one night to do our

(01:37:52):
guest Q and A and we bought him like four
hundred dollars for this sushi tod to sit and eat
at the as we were doing our Q and A.
It was pretty fun.

Speaker 3 (01:38:04):
That is really funny.

Speaker 1 (01:38:06):
Now the show just closes because no one is in
and everyone has had sushi poisoning.

Speaker 4 (01:38:11):
Exactly and weirdly, like none of us got mercury poisoning.
We were all total with them. But yeah, I mean,
you know, like I said, like I I've had the
great experience of knowing these people as friends for a
long long time and his colleagues, and like Raoul is
one of those people that you know, he makes you like.

(01:38:32):
Raoul and I were actually nominated against each other for
Tony Awards one year. Oh really yeah, me and Raoul
and James Gandelfini and Jeff Daniels wow uh and then
the guy who won, Jeffrey Rush, and so like we
got to spend like this whole weird like Theater Awards

(01:38:53):
season together.

Speaker 3 (01:38:55):
And a good bunch.

Speaker 4 (01:38:57):
It was ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (01:38:58):
Yeah, it was a grownd to be amongst for sure.

Speaker 4 (01:39:01):
It was ridiculous. Yeah, we got to spend a lot
of quality time together with those guys. Except for Jeffrey,
he was like really aloof and didn't hang out with anybody,
But like Jimmy Candelfini and jeff and Rowell and I like,
we got to know each other pretty well hanging out
and doing all these functions and events and stuff. Roll
is one of those guys that, like, he's one of
those actors that I will He's one of those guys
that makes me leave out of my chair at the

(01:39:22):
end of a show. You know, I just think I
think he's really really special.

Speaker 1 (01:39:26):
Yeah, we get sent a lot of clips of him
from our listeners.

Speaker 3 (01:39:29):
They love him.

Speaker 1 (01:39:30):
They send us clips of him, like from a company
I think, and like all kinds of that's like, you know,
raises the hairs on your arms kind of performances.

Speaker 4 (01:39:42):
Now, he's he's pretty he's pretty ridiculous, as your listeners know.
He's you know, for the people on this side of it,
it's sort of like, okay, all right, come on, ask
like save something for the rest of us, Like you know,
you can't like you can't be that good looking, have
that cool of a name, and be that talented in
so many factss of your life all at the same time.

(01:40:05):
It's kind of bullshit, like, could you at least be
like Engelbert Home have just like a shitty name or
like something like some sort of kryptonite. But he doesn't
seem to.

Speaker 2 (01:40:15):
Have any Wow, he was awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:40:20):
He's so cool.

Speaker 4 (01:40:22):
I love him well.

Speaker 3 (01:40:23):
I love that he knew the hat was terrible, you know,
like immediately, we didn't even have to bring it up.

Speaker 2 (01:40:28):
Yeah, and we did not leave us thing because we
don't have the dates or like know exactly what's up.
But he is in an upcoming production of a play
that's breaking kind of genre boundaries of what a plate
eve and is with Judith Light SV Royalty. So look
out for something with Judith Light in the near future,

(01:40:50):
which I would be excited about.

Speaker 3 (01:40:51):
I missed the theater. Baby. Yeah, oh my gosh, if
it comes to oh, if it's in a light, let's
know it. Let's we hear about it. Yeah, we'll follow
him on social.

Speaker 1 (01:40:59):
And before we get into our post mortem, I know
that I referenced the X Factor and I meant to
say the voice please don't send me a bunch of
pictures of Adam Levine turning around in a chair to
let me know that I.

Speaker 3 (01:41:10):
Was talking about the wrong show. I got it, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:41:13):
Oh, there was a funny meme about you know, Gwen
Stefani and Blake Shelton. Yeah, I got married, and it
was like, Gwen Stefani is the perfect example of an
OC girl. She was a punk ska girl goddess and
then ended up marrying the most conservative, boring white man
she could find named Blake. And I thought that was
a pretty funny tweet. I have to send it to
our friend Blair, our OC girl. Yeah she is an

(01:41:36):
OC lady.

Speaker 3 (01:41:36):
That's so funny. But yeah, Gwen was like everything and
now she's Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:41:43):
I was obsessed with her, so no doubt in high
school was like my soundtrack.

Speaker 3 (01:41:48):
I mean, you know you're.

Speaker 2 (01:41:49):
A badass when you can make braces be a trend,
you know, Like I was begging for braces. I also
begged for eyeglasses, and I wanted crutches, and I was
so happy to get crutch it like it's sick. I
bet there's some sort of study about this or other
kids have to have really, tell me.

Speaker 3 (01:42:07):
I used fake crutches for three days.

Speaker 5 (01:42:09):
I got crutches, I didn't need them, and I wore
them to school for three days.

Speaker 3 (01:42:12):
Yeah. I think it's just the attention. When someone has crutches,
You're like, look at.

Speaker 2 (01:42:17):
Me, Like I know, I was jealous of people with
their pink casts.

Speaker 3 (01:42:23):
Oh yeah, I never I've never knocked on wood, but
one wood. Well, let's talk. Let's do post mortem. What
did we learn from this episode?

Speaker 1 (01:42:30):
I mean, like, if someone's wearing a douche hat, guess
what they're a douche.

Speaker 3 (01:42:34):
Yeah, you don't have to get to know them. You
can judge a book by its cover. You can judge
a douche by its hat. Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:42:41):
I mean, like we've said before, like we've said in
the episode, I feel like we always believe women, but
that doesn't mean that there's not an occasional Jody.

Speaker 3 (01:42:50):
Arius out there.

Speaker 2 (01:42:51):
And the thing is to think about this woman, not Jody.
I'm not I don't I don't want to defend real crime,
but in the episode, we also don't know what like
this chick's been through, you know what I mean, Like
who knows if she was abused as a young person,
and this is what happens.

Speaker 3 (01:43:08):
Yeah, don't get blow jobs on a ledge.

Speaker 2 (01:43:11):
I yeah, even if someone is your what like, you
feel committed and fully trusting and they haven't threatened you
and tried to.

Speaker 3 (01:43:18):
Destroy your life.

Speaker 1 (01:43:19):
Just no, BJ's no fucking no nothing by alledge.

Speaker 3 (01:43:24):
Let's do that.

Speaker 1 (01:43:24):
No ledge fucks, no ledge fucks for sure, that's a
little bit too.

Speaker 3 (01:43:29):
Edgy for me.

Speaker 4 (01:43:29):
I would not.

Speaker 2 (01:43:30):
I also learned that there's leftover jiz in your dick
after you come.

Speaker 5 (01:43:35):
That was me.

Speaker 1 (01:43:37):
Yeah, better pee and clear that shit out. That's probably
how guys get UTI's or something.

Speaker 2 (01:43:42):
I don't know. I used to have a joke about
com dripping out and you running to the bathroom, but
I don't remember it fully.

Speaker 1 (01:43:49):
I had a joke about hobbling to the bathroom after
you have sex when you're the woman.

Speaker 3 (01:43:53):
Yeah, no, that's what I mean. I obviously didn't have
a dick hobbling a bit. Maybe would, Maybe I would.
I know it was a personal experience joke. I was
so excited.

Speaker 2 (01:44:03):
I you know, sometimes when crowds are like too hip
and cool, I was like, are they going to be
into this?

Speaker 3 (01:44:08):
But they love my nine to eleven joke? And I'm like, oh,
this is good.

Speaker 1 (01:44:11):
You know, this is for you listeners that you need
to see Lisa Tregger Live to get that nine to
eleven content. Backstage, everyone's like, the audience seems really likable.

Speaker 3 (01:44:22):
You're gonna love it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:22):
I go, yeah, no, I'm not likable. I'm like, I'm
not worried about them being likable, worried about me. Ah,
what else about this episode?

Speaker 4 (01:44:31):
Wrong?

Speaker 1 (01:44:31):
Yes, means like get a like. I guess what we've
learned that we've known is that Rollins is a good
detective and in her job and a horrible detective in
her life, like she cannot she does not have a
good picker for men.

Speaker 2 (01:44:47):
Do you think Kelly Giddish knows how hated Amanda Rollins
is because the messages we get like I posted the
game this last week, but Kelly get her.

Speaker 1 (01:44:56):
Then there's Kelly Giddish fan accounts, so I'm sure she's like,
you know, for every person that's like fuck you, there's
somebody that like screams at us when we don't know
the name of her dog.

Speaker 3 (01:45:04):
So yeah, you know, yeah, I guess that's fame.

Speaker 4 (01:45:08):
Baby.

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
I don't want to say, like, don't trust your sponsor,
but don't trust a guy that is only kind to
women he wants to fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:45:17):
Yeah, and note to women, I wouldn't trust a guy
that's only surrounding himself with women in an AA setting.
You know, he wouldn't help Danny Pino like he doesn't
want to help men, He just wants to help women.

Speaker 2 (01:45:31):
But I bet he doesn't want to help women that
he doesn't want to fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:45:34):
To write, I'm sure of like a non conventionally attractive
woman went in and was like, can you help me,
he'd be like, I'll load it up, babe, find another sponsor.

Speaker 2 (01:45:42):
Also, don't scream you're not my daddy at work to
your coworkers.

Speaker 3 (01:45:50):
I think that's good advice. Yeah, that's really embarrassing. That's
a great. That's just a great. That's all over. That's
like cops not any yeah, any job. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:46:01):
If I see and all your other detective friends are like,
this guy seems shady, maybe take a second moment, you know,
take a moment to be like, Okay, all my esteemed
colleagues don't like this guy.

Speaker 3 (01:46:12):
Let's see what's that.

Speaker 1 (01:46:13):
Yeah, And like, there's a reason why they tell you
not to date people in AA because when it doesn't
work out, you end up ripping butts at a blackjack table,
Like you just need to work on your sobriety before you.

Speaker 3 (01:46:25):
I don't know, date, I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:46:28):
Well, you're only doing this because of the movie twenty
eight Days, right, No, I've never even seen that, Are
you kidding?

Speaker 3 (01:46:33):
We've talked about this, I think before too. It is
an awesome movie.

Speaker 2 (01:46:36):
It's Sandra Bullock, she goes to rehabs star studies.

Speaker 3 (01:46:39):
Yeah, yeah, I know what it's about.

Speaker 2 (01:46:41):
But yeah, but that's where I learned you shouldn't date
for a year, and Sex and the City, that episode
where she dates the guy too early and he kind
of goes off the rails.

Speaker 3 (01:46:50):
Yeah, so I've only learned that rule from television.

Speaker 1 (01:46:53):
I also had a family member who dated somebody who
was fresh out of rehab, and we were like, this
might not be a good idea. And then I learned
from other people like, oh yeah, they say an aa,
don't date for a year. So I learned that that
that way. I learned that the hard way, yeah as well.
So just reiterating that as a post mortem finding for

(01:47:14):
all of you and anything else.

Speaker 4 (01:47:16):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:47:18):
No, I guess we learned that three whole wonder uh
passes all standards in practice, because you know, there were
lawyers discussing it.

Speaker 3 (01:47:27):
They sent the script in. All the lawyers were sitting.

Speaker 1 (01:47:29):
Debating about it, and then they all were like, three
hole wonder stays. That's a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:47:33):
Yeah, which is? And I guess I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:47:36):
Also, if life gives you a murderous personality and you're
a murderer, you can still be a star in jail.
You know, you can still win American Idol prison edition
and sell your work on eBay. And we'll be checking
back with Lisa in a couple of weeks after she's
acquired her Jody Area sart.

Speaker 3 (01:47:56):
No, no, oh, yeah, did.

Speaker 2 (01:47:57):
We learn anything from the real crime? Destroy evidence? Your
fucking idiot. It's what are you doing.

Speaker 1 (01:48:00):
Stop with the trophies, stop with the camera, stop it destroying.

Speaker 3 (01:48:04):
It's ever really deleted? Yes? Oh these people?

Speaker 2 (01:48:08):
I mean, have we talked about this, like if there
should be escape rooms but for committing crimes and see
if you get away with it.

Speaker 3 (01:48:17):
We have talked about that. I still want to do it.
That's your shark tank idea.

Speaker 4 (01:48:20):
Think.

Speaker 1 (01:48:21):
Yeah, we've also learned that unfortunately, if a crime involves
like a hot young woman, the crime is going to
be named after the hot young woman.

Speaker 3 (01:48:26):
It's not going to be named after the victim.

Speaker 1 (01:48:28):
Unfortunately, Travis Alexander's name is not as popular as Jodi Arius,
and I think that's just because he was murdered by
somebody who was considered hot.

Speaker 2 (01:48:36):
But it must be really hard for victims' families to
see their killers get fame and notoriety and attention and
magazine covers, and I can't really imagine that heartache, right,
And because she was also like particularly disrespectful by trying
to paint him as a pedophile, like in death, Like

(01:48:59):
you know, that's really horrible. So she not only took
him off the earth but also tried to like drag his.

Speaker 3 (01:49:05):
Name through the MUDs.

Speaker 1 (01:49:05):
I'm sure his family feels a very specific way about her.
But in general, don't kill people. But yeah, yeah, that's
the lesson we learned. Don't kill people.

Speaker 3 (01:49:16):
Don't kill people.

Speaker 1 (01:49:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:49:18):
Eight months into the pod, finally we're like.

Speaker 1 (01:49:20):
You know what we're not going to We're like, you
know how you could avoid all this evidence?

Speaker 3 (01:49:24):
Shit, don't kill anyone, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:49:26):
Thank you for listening, and Kara where are we going
to try to help the community. What do we have
for our Sister Peg segment?

Speaker 1 (01:49:33):
Yeah, so okay, So for this week's what would Sister
Peg Do? Which is our weekly segment where we give
you resources or organizations that can help you learn more
about what we talked about in today's episode, we decided
to highlight this week Women for Sobriety. It's womenfo Sobriety
dot org. It's a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping women
discover a happy new life and recovery from substance use disorders.

(01:49:57):
They have been around since nineteen seventy five. Women for
Sobriety has certified facilitators leading support groups online and in person,
as well as phone volunteers available for one on one support.
So anyone that's looking for help in their in their
recovery please check out womenfor Sobriety dot org and all

(01:50:19):
expressions of female identity are welcome.

Speaker 3 (01:50:22):
Thank you for that, Kara.

Speaker 2 (01:50:24):
And next week's episode we will be doing Rooftop season three,
episode four. They are on Hulu. Hopefully they didn't fuck
up the numbers this week. And Peacock your library all
that jazz and we can't wait to see you next week.

Speaker 3 (01:50:42):
Bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:50:51):
That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.

Speaker 1 (01:50:53):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:51:00):
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.

Speaker 1 (01:51:08):
As always, please see our show notes for sources and
more information.

Speaker 2 (01:51:12):
Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our
incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kragon.

Speaker 1 (01:51:18):
And to our sound engineer and personal hero Analie s Nilson,
and to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly
Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive producers
Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly
Right Media.

Speaker 2 (01:51:33):
Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher,
or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're an advertiser
interested in advertising on our show, go to midroll dot
com slash ads.

Speaker 3 (01:51:46):
Done Done

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Hosts And Creators

Kara Klenk

Liza Treyger

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