Risk w/ Erica Tazel

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Done done, Yay, that's messed up. An SVU podcast. My

(00:31):
name is Liza Traeger.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
And I'm Kara Klank And you know what this is.
It's an SVU podcast. We talk about episodes of the show,
the true crimes they're based on. We talked to a
fun guest. We chit shot up top YadA YadA. Here
we are ye back at it.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
We're here. Surely, Well you go, you go, because I no, no, no,
I have two seven hour flights within four days. So
I watched some movies. Oh my god, tell me give
me the Dels. Okay, so I watched uh well, I
rewatched The Substance was It, which is a crazy thing

(01:09):
to watch on a flight, like on a flight, like
if people were eating around me, Like, I'm sure that's crazy.
But it was like my because I was so tired.
It was kind of my nap in and out movie too,
Like I was, yeah, you're like, well, I know the
plot whatever, and it is chilling up so I did
do that. Okay, you sold you liked this, so I
did want Okay, my old ass loved it. Would you think?

(01:35):
I thought? Oh, I love well cat so well cast,
that girl and guy so well cast. I want to
see him again in everything.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
And just beautiful, like the location. I think it's somewhere
random in Canada, gorgeous. I wanted to ride a boat
and make out with like other teens, like I just
love as a team, not myself as now.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
So well ready you know the lake looked good. I
texted meat Brick immediately Molly Carney for those who don't know,
because they grew up on a lake, and I was like,
you gotta take me to this lake, like I need that,
Like I want to be on a lake right now
in the Oh my gosh, it was. It was just
so good. I mean I cried.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
I mean, you know, you cry easier on a plane,
but like I cry.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
I was also on the way to a funeral, so
of course I was crying, so I was. Yeah, so
I was. It was just really nice and easy and
even though you kind of knew where things, I don't know.
I just like loved it, simple good awesome movie. Yeah,
and okay, so next movie.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Well, also before you get before you just move on
really quick. Yeah, I moved on really interesting to me,
how there is this weird like supernatural you could say
element to it or whatever, like a hallucinate, whatever you're
calling it.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
It just doesn't even affect it.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Really, it's it's so like expertly woven in that you're
not like, well, what are the rules?

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Can other people see her? Like, you know, like it's
not you know, I like my.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Husband relevant, Yeah, like it doesn't matter, like it's but
I and some people I talked to you didn't like
it because they were like they didn't like the Aubrey
Plaza of it all. But I was like, it's so
to me, it's a it's the two kids movie. It's
like their movie. Like I don't know, it didn't. I
loved it so much.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Now some people want more. And there was a thing
where it's like you guys can obviously my old ass.
It's like the older version of hers. And I liked
that they covered where she was like, what the fuck's
with the gap in your teeth and she goes, yeah,
you should wear your retainer, and like I loved that,
like just the little I don't know the cranberries of
it all. It just was like a nice fucking movie

(03:51):
that also makes you cry. And these actors, these young actors,
were like phenomenal. I was feeling every feeling so good,
and sure a lot of these are short. So then
I watched which people said wasn't good. I loved it Companion.
I oh again loved it.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Isn't that the guy who did the movie that you
love the Barbarian.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
He just produced it. It was a different writer and director,
but it's about like it's don't worry darling vibes of
like men wanting women, robots or whatnot. It's like, yeah, yeah,
robots stuff. But I think it's surprising, it's funny, it's shock,
it's cool, it does all the rule and then like
it just doesn't end with action and excitement, and her

(04:37):
monologues are so good. I just thought it was awesome.
I loved the end, like I loved the visual how
it looks like I'm I'm into Companion. It was good.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, No, I thought it looked good when I saw
the preview and was like, I want to see this,
but then it came and went so quickly.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
I didn't get a chance. I know, everything is so
fucking fast, like I still have to rush to see Sinners.
I got to see the draw, but I think the
drop's already out. Thunderbolt. Yeah, it's like too much. Okay,
sorry if this is too many. It was long flights. Okay,
this is the best movie I've probably seen. I loved it.
I loved it. I loved it the last show Girl,

(05:16):
Oh with Pama and to see it, dying to see it.
I heard it's amazing, amazing as an understatement, Yeah, I
want to see that. It really and it's like such
classic indie movie vibes, like the like the slowness and
to me watching it with like you know, it's Gia
Coppola directed it, and so you know, and you're like, yeah,
this is actually like I bet she learned from her

(05:38):
like family, and you could see it. It shot so beautifully,
like everything is so cool. I just I've really really
enjoyed it. It was really good.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, listen, it's good for there to be one Gea
out there learning any lessons from her family, because Gia
Judee is not learning anything. No, but it was as
I was watching, I was like, yeah, because I don't
know if she's a granddaughter, a daughter who's she's a cousin, Like,
I don't know what she is, but I'm like, I'm sure,
Like I wonder if Sophia was in the editing with

(06:10):
her being like, oh do the like I just wonder.
But it was just so beautifully done, and I was like,
this is how you do it as a nepo, you know,
fucking learn the lessons of your family and give us
a good ass movie done. Well, yeah, she's not What
is her relation to Sophia Because Jason Schwartzman's niece, niece.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Of Sophia Coppola.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
So first cousin once removed of Nick Cage, you know, YadA, YadA,
first cousin once removed to Jason Schwartzman.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Blah blah blah. He's in it. See's in it? Yeah
all right, but he'sa like such a performance. And then
Jamie Lee Curtis and then the young you know it's
Kieren and Shipka, Billy Lord and Brenda Song.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
I didn't even know all those people were in it. Yeah,
I thought it was Pam and Jamie Lee.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
No, it was really like, oh I've really wow, Okay,
I'm gonna watch that for sure. Sorry, I watched so
many days. I'm like so embarrassed. Okay and okay, So
the next movie I finally watched it, I used to
be funny. It's Rachel Senate. It's an indie movie. Ali
Pankeow wrote and directed it. We know her, she was

(07:20):
engaged to a friend dated another famous part we know
yeah yeah I met her, yeah yeah yeah, So she
wrote it and directed it. It was awesome. Rachel is
a fucking star. Caleb's inn it Haron, who's so funny.
But like, it's really good. All of these are good.
I should have more better words to say. I don't
have better language. I'm glad. No, I mean, I'm glad

(07:41):
that I can. I would watch that on.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Maybe it's only on international, but I haven't seen that
on Delta.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
I would totally watch that. Yeah, it's basically like a comedian. Obviously,
something like happened to her. So she has PTSD and
she doesn't want to get on stage again, and her
friends are so supportive, and she's on this journey and
it like time, it goes back and forth and you're
trying to piece together what happened with what characters. But
I just like loved it. Rachel Senn, It's a goddamn star, so,

(08:09):
I mean, not that anyone's surprised now the movie one
of them days. Oh yeah, baby, I saw it. I
was laughing out on the flight. I was dying laughing,
And I can't wait to watch it again. I think
it's gonna be a movie that I watch over and over.
Like I loved it, and I loved all the side characters,

(08:32):
like everything was so. I loved all the side It
just just like the movies. I like, you know, it's like, dude,
where's my car? It's like Friday. It's like, yeah, you know,
like I'm trying to think of another one because I
haven't seen The Hangover. I know that's kind of the
in a day, what you gotta get it done?

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, yeah, I love the Yeah, I forgot what it's called.
What's a movie that takes place in like a day,
like a capsule movie kind of thing. But yeah, like
it's uh, I really enjoyed it. I for some reason,
I wanted the script to be I thought it was
like really riding off of how charismatic those two are.
Like that's what I said, You're so fucking good.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
So I didn't think it was gonna be that good
because what I was hearing was like, you know, we
loved it, but you know, but it's okay. And then
my hairstylist, Lacy like loves it. She seemed like eight
times like loves it. And so I was like, I
wonder what's going on. And then when I put it on,
I just was like in love with it all, laughing
up a storm. I thought. I thought the jokes were
so funny. I and they're beautiful, They're they're so beautiful,

(09:33):
so beautiful, but it's silly. It's also like slapsticky. I
love seeing Kat Williams winning, like, I fucking loved it.
And Dwayne Perkins, Yeah, yeah, I loved him.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
I the scene in the blood Bank was too much
for me, know you know, when I started was like no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
I can't with this shit. And I loved Janelle and
I support everything she does, but I was like, I
can't with this, even the end of like where are
they now? And money in it too, but like, I
just loved it. I loved the fighting. I really like
it was just the feel good movie. It was fun,

(10:15):
and you know, I say this all the time. I
just feel like they.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Don't make movies like this anymore, Like they just don't
make funny, like sort of stoner comedy like funny movies.
And the only reason this one could get like probably
found an audience is because of the star power of
like the main.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
I was laughing at a storm loudly on this flight,
like I ever. I loved the outfits. I loved the
bad girl. I liked the Church's chicken. I mean, I
just and I.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Like the back girl was a star. I thought the
villain was a star. I'm like, I can't wait to
see her and more shit.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, And then this I watched because I was so
jet lagged, so I was up till like five in
the morning. This is a Netflix movie. Not good, but
it's a Mother's Instinct and it's Anne Hathaway and Jessica Chastain.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
From twenty fourteen. From twenty twenty four Okay, it's a
new movie. But I think I saw a preview for
this and was like, this looks like up right up
my fucking alley.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
It was fine. It was fine. It's just like it
was like two stylized. I don't know. It was fine.
I was happy to watch it, and you know, I
was up all night and then okay, so that's it.
I'm sorry. I just listed off movies. I hope this
was enjoyable for everyone listening. But I loved it and
it was just like a great time of movies. And

(11:39):
then I also already finished because of the jet lad
you know I mentioned it on the pot. I love
the movie Four Seasons with Alan Alda and like Carol Burnett,
I like watched it once and I brought it up
because I didn't I've never even heard. It's so crazy.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
I was literally just about to ask you out of nowhere,
have you heard anything about this show?

Speaker 1 (11:56):
The four season? I watched it all while I was okay,
I throw up the match. Somebody just told me two
days ago.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
They were like, it's so good and there's a great
there's great twists, and I was like, for a comedy,
I don't think of twists.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
You know, if you didn't see the original movie, there
are twists. Okay, well I haven't, so there's that. No,
and Ellen Alda makes a cameo in this, so that
was really exciting. No, I loved it. I love these
kinds of movies. I love friend groups, meeting in a
house like I like, I like the style, and I
haven't seen will Forte in a while. You know, it's

(12:28):
like fun. It was good. I really enjoyed it. And
they so basically it's like four seasons, and they did
they broke it down by two episodes per season. I'm
gonna watch it, I mean yeah. And Tina Fath producer,
and Tracy Wigfield is like the big writer. Yeah yeah,
and I love her.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
I mean she made that show great news that I
was obsessed with that nobody watched, but I loved it.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
So that's that's my Ciskel and Ebert hour. Amazing. I
apologize now you can start talking.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
I am, you know, as usual, woefully behind on all
my TV and everything because well, last weekend I did
go camping.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
I took Rosy camping in the wilderness with Yeah calling
me that day.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
It was so cute and fun, except I didn't sleep
at all, Like I went to sleep.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
It was so cute.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
We were like in the tent together, like lying on
our sleeping bags, telling each other's stories, and she kept
being like telling me another story, and I would just
like tell her little stories of like silly things that
have happened in my life or whatever, and then we
go to sleep. I'm like, it's nine thirty. We've been
like hiking around and doing shit all day. I'm tired.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
I've been lugging.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
It's so much equipment for two fucking people to sleep
in the woods for two twenty four hours, Like, it's nuts.
So I was really tired of fall asleep. I'm just
awake every hour for a half hour, like and then
I'm falling back asleep a little bit. And I had
a nice ass thick pad that my friend gave me.
My friend Jackie gave me all this like nice camping equipment.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Couldn't sleep.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
So I've been recovering from the sleep for like three days.
But besides that, amazing. The Sunday of the trip was
May the fourth, you know, which is for dorky Star
Wars people. I don't know anything about Star Wars, but
one of the guys made all the kids out of empty.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
Bubble wands, you know, the bubble wands.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Like the long tube that's colorful, emptied them out, attached
them to flashlights. All the kids had lightsabers. They had
a nighttime lightsaber fight. They went fucking nuts. It was
like magical they were having the time of their life.
Rosie was like, I wish we could stay here for
two more nights. I was like, I mean I don't
because of the sleep. But you know, we had a
great time. It was really fun. And if you drive

(14:42):
far enough up into the mountains from LA you actually
get better weather than you did in La. We we
had like a beautiful sunshine day and everyone it was
raining in La, so we just went above the clouds.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
It was nice. And then all the kids and parents behaved.
Did you have the loan time? Like did everyone just
what is the vibe with the other parents.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
We started wine and cheese, like one of the moms
brought like no shit, like a full sharcuterie cheese wine
spread that we started at.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Like three o'clock. So that was nice.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
We just like, you know, and the kids were having
the time, like the best time. They were just like
running around, and you got to get an idea of
everybody else's, like everybody's stress level as a parent, because
I'm like, oh, yeah, they're in we're in the woods,
like let them go, and everyone is like what if
they see a rattle snake? What if there's a coyote?
You know, and I'm like, oh, I don't know they'll

(15:30):
handle it.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
I mean they're only six, they probably can't handle a rattlesnake.
But I'm just down to let them run around. And
you you kind of are.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Dealing with like the different levels of helicoptering that other
parents do.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Well, take your parents. I saw this dad, and I
swear it took everything, and menut to be like, it's enough, sir.
Stop these two boys on this flight from Lenson S,
New York Stellar. The dad didn't even talk to them
once they had their little meals. They played their gay
like the most polite little boys I've ever seen. Big brother,

(16:01):
little brother. The dad there was absolutely no communicating like
at all. Like the dad was very British. Do you
think were they British? No, that's what's shocking. I thought
they were British. I'm like, they're British little rich boys
who are in Premium Select, who already have their things,
they know how it works. They're requesting their own lemonade,
they have their own headphone. Like they just were truly
behaving the whole time, better than I was. So then

(16:25):
we land and we're all up, but then there's like
an issue with the door, so like by the time
the door open, we probably had like twenty or thirty minutes,
so they were standing by the So then they're back
in their seats. The younger one pissed his pants, and
the dad, okay, I understand being annoyed at first, I

(16:46):
being like, are you fucking kidding? We were by the toilet,
like we were standing by the toilet. Kid, like, what
are you doing? So then the kid is like, no, no, no,
it just leaked, and he's like, it didn't leak. It
just leaked, and it's like, okay, the kid's lying, but like,
what are you doing? The dad is fully arguing with
his child, and he goes, well, I don't have a
change of clothes. You're just gonna be wet. You're gonna
have wet pants for the ride home. That's what you're

(17:06):
gonna do. You're gonna have wet clothes. And it's like
you're the parent, like, oh, we'll stop at the Hudson News.
We'll get you a pair of shorts, hey, older brother,
And then so I go to the air dryers in
the airport. At least, you know, no, just arguing with
this kid making him feel bad, I can hear the
kid like starting to whimper, and I'm just like giving

(17:28):
him a dirty look. The woman behind me is like,
it's enough. I go, this is fucked up. Then the
older brother goes, I have an extra pair of pants
in my so I put the mom's British. He goes,
I have an extra pair of pants in my in
my backpack. I have it. So it's like, now you
have the older brother problem solving, trying to find a solution.

(17:48):
Your solution is arguing with your child and making him
feel bad because what like he pedn'tn't tell, like it
just seems like such a thing kids do, and was
willing to have your kid being pissed clothes for whatever.
The commute was home, I mean JFK ticks forever, so
it's like that means customs. That means the like the

(18:09):
uber rides, Oh, probably an hour wherever you're going. So
it's like fuck you. So on my way out, I
just went, it's okay, kid, and then I kept moving
because I like hated him so much. That's really nice. No,
I should have started a fight. I fight with people
that deserve it less like I should have said something.
But with parenting it's like tough, but I want to
be like, if you arguing with your kid, he feels bad.

(18:31):
He feels bad. He pissed himself. It's not like he
likes it.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
No, it's like a core memory. You're trapped in a
fucking small space. Everyone around you is like looking. Probably
everyone's noticing your dad yelling you about this. Like that's humiliating.
And also with kids, it's like this whole thing. You
hold your piss, you don't want to pay, you want
to enjoy whatever.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
I just get. I'm someone that waits to pee till
the last minute, so like I don't know, and he
goes right when we sat down, and he wouldn't stop arguing,
and I'm like, you're the parent. Yeah, your kid is
lying that it leaked because you're a bitch. Yeah, dick,
And he just like put his head in his hands,

(19:09):
and I'm like, you truly ignored your kids for eight hours.
I've watched you the whole flight. You didn't ask one
question about any oh, And I knew I hated him
even before that, because there's a hangman on one of
the games and this is when we landed and had
to wait for a while, and he starts playing Hangman,
and instead of being like what letter do you think?
Or why don't you find a vowel, he just was like,
find a find you find art and it was Bulgaria

(19:31):
and it's and then he was like, it's Bulgaria. Why
don't you ask your kid if he knows what Bulgaria is,
where it is, give him clues. Like it was just like,
this is why people shouldn't just have kids, because you
have to have kids because to me, just because you
have money too, just because you're in Premium Select doesn't
mean you're a good fucking paranteeth or Jesus, it really

(19:53):
upset me over all. But it's like you ignored them
for eight hours, you're giving him the answers, and now
you're yelling at him for pissing himself, Like, fuck you, dude,
I should have especially when they're being such good, when
they're being so good Stellar good, Stellar, Oh my god,
Oh I know not guy, And they were just so cute.

(20:14):
But I also love that the big brother, you know,
immediately was like, well I have extra pants, so like,
shut the fuck up, dad, you.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Know, yeah, good on the bigger kid. Jesus, Yeah, I
don't know. People are fucking Yeah, not everyone should do it.
He's probably pissed he had to.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Fly with them alone or something. I don't know. He goes,
your mom has the rest of the clothes, so maybe
she got on a different flash. I don't know what
was going on, but.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Like I just yeah, this sounds like a guy who's
used to the mom taking care of everything and is
like pissed he has to do anything.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Truly, that's what it sounds like.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
In honor of Mother's Day, which we'll have just passed,
Happy Mother's.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Day to all the moms. The mail is so annoying.
I sent a Mother's de call my mom already got it.
I go, it's it's like too early. But sometimes these
letters take so long, like there's just no there's nothing.
I know.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Well as we know. I just did get a Tiffany's
gift that I ordered. I just I just had to.
It's landing there today. It's landing there today.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
I hope it fits. I took it out. It's tiny.
I mean, you know, it's.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
For the wrist, but it's a little well they can add,
they can add, they can add a little bead, they
can add yeah, two, okay, yeah, they could add links.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
They can add links, because for my necklace I added
some links. I'll let you can. You can definitely. Oh,
I have a new phrase that I love from England.
What So basically, I'm I was at the same hotel
last time I was there, and so I see my
friend's mom and I go, wow, they really remodeled the lobby,

(21:54):
and the lobby looks like so cute, like theonline like jungle.
They like, it's cute. And it used to be like
truly a red roof in you know, like it just
they really upped it. And her mom goes, ugh, yeah,
it used to be cheap, common and vulgar. I kind of.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Cheap, common and vulgar. No, the Brits are the best.
The way that they talk. They have better phrases than us.
It's great good.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Oh. And then like we took tequila shots. You know,
these motherfuckers hate ice, because I was like, can we
get it chilled? And the way everyone turned and looked
at me in silence, humiliated, and I go, my bad.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Sorry, Yeah, they don't love ice famously.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
No. I ended up ordering a diet coke at one
point and they go, we don't have ice, okay, And
I go, it's fine, all right, Ah, but well we
got the tequila American and one of the guys went,
do you want salad meaning limes? Should we get some salad? Yeah?
Make salad. Yeah. That was a good one too, So

(23:01):
I really I really enjoyed that. That's cute. Oh wait.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
I also last week I organized this like first parents'
night out at our school that was like a fundraiser,
and my friend went up and down like all of
the stores in Highland Park, like and Eagle Rock, like
you would have if you still lived here, I would
have invited you to this because you would have loved
this raffle. It was like packages of like different like

(23:26):
all themed packages to like different restaurants or like different
shops and this and that, and one of them was
a gift certificate to a dance for a dance class.
And Oscar's been dying to take ballet. So I put
all my raffle tickets in that bowl. And I, even
though I was announcing the raffle, my friend pulled for
that bowl because I said, I don't want to be

(23:46):
assumed to be cheating. And we did win it, and
I was so happy, and Oscar was thrilled.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
In the morning.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
He's very excited. He's going to get it toutu and
we're doing ballet. Baby, I can't wait.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
I'm so sorry happy.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
I know.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
I was so happy. It was like the only one
I wanted to win. But there was also like a
facial that.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
I wanted to win. But that's okay. I didn't want that.
But wait, this sucks because we've been talking for forever.
But the met happened.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Oh oh. It always sneaks up on me. And last
night I was like on Instagram and I was like, oh,
Liza's probably so excited about all of these looks.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
I did you know. It was like, it's nice that
it was such a specific theme because I loved I
was on it. I want a theme. There was no
real confusion, I guess just with Shakira. I was confused,
but like most everyone else, it made sense. And I
liked that it was like so cohesive of an evening.

(24:48):
And I love that I met all the women were
like finally comfortable.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
For a day.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
Well.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
I loved that it was tailoring and for some people,
I was like, I wish you had warn like a
suit or something more tailored than not like a gown,
you know, like because I loved all the women in
like the more traditional like men's wear, you know, like
tailored stuff.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
I thought it looked awesome. Doci looked so cool.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yes, Coleman Domingo, multiple outfits, gorge.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
I'm just trying to think of. Now, I know Janelle
Monet nailed it. Oh I'm a Chamberlain. I mean she
always does good. I mean Miley finally, the bitch never
was that dam Finally Miley came through. But some of
the dresses, like with Gigi hadid it was like a
Josephine Baker nod, you know, like which which I guess

(25:44):
maybe I should look into like what she.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Which was Megan the Stallion also did like a Josephine
Baker nod.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Okay, Yeah, and then I love Nikki Bell. Oh yeah,
I just yeah, me too. I mean I was absorbing
all of his his oh, because I thought Pam Anderson,
look at there was someone else. I paused on me.
I couldnt believe it. Now I'm a Chamberlain is just
like a battie. She's so fucking cool. Oh. Tianna Taylor,
like incredible Tiana Taylor and red layers patterns. I love

(26:12):
the pattern, mixing in the shapes and all the platforms
they're sign You know, I didn't like some of our
comedy people. Oh, Hailey Bieber bad plain, too plain for me,
Kendall Jenner boring, Yeah, and Rihanna.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Somebody posted we're never getting the new album, and it's true,
We're just not. She's just having more babies. But asap
Rocky looks awesome too. He's so hot. Zendia damn. Yeah,
everybody looks fucking good. Oh, I would say, I mean,
oh my god, Hallie Berry jesus, Oh, I didn't even
see her. Jeez, you said you said yes or no

(26:50):
on Charlie XCX.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
I just found her. I liked it. I like the sheer.
I like then. I don't know if I get about
the theme, but I loved her posing too. Oh god,
oh my god, it's thirty millions. Did you like start acting?
And I'm excited for it. Jenna or Tagar or taga
Her thing was made out of tape measures. It's like
silver tape measures, and I, you know, I like that

(27:11):
creativity at least.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
And I was seeing a lot of Diana Ross. I
was seeing a lot of Diana Ross's look.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Out because I don't think she's been to a met
for like an eight years. Yeah, party was a little
bit of a miss. Maybe there's more history than I
should know about. Oh, Kekey Palmer look good. Oh my god,
Kekey Palmer loved Keky Palmer.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Will Yeah, this has been a Kekey Palmer stan intro.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
I also liked do Chie leaving the hotel with her
andre Leon tally nod so like she has her look,
but then she also like dressed like him with all
the tennis gear for the day before party. Oh and
I got to give a shout out to my friend
Alex English. He was there. He was hired by the Rogue. Yeah,

(27:56):
he did out and he was at the DOCI after
part but he was writing for whatever online correspondence stuff
they had. And yeah, Alex English was a writer and
he was at the met and yeah, so that was like,
that's exciting. Yeah, I was really happy for him. I mean,
I am in it for a while, but it finally happened,

(28:20):
and with things like this, Oh he's sorry.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
I don't just like finding people.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
Well, I'm like scrolling now. But even though we're at
thirty minutes because and we have to go, oh, I'm
not tell you Ray, I like, I don't fully get it,
but I love it. Cool. Oh, I do like to
look up.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
I just found this thing called twenty twenty five met
gallant train wrecks.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
So yeah, give us the train. Oh, Alex, I'm looking.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
That's on the route dot com. I don't know if
this is entertaining for people. Do you guys want to
hear us say more name names?

Speaker 1 (28:56):
And yes? No visual I so it was there. I
needed ae. I see a Quinta outfit and I'm looking
at it and I love it. Oh, this guy did
great Regien page Oh, rega page right from Bridgerton. Yeah,
he looked fucking good. There was also someone in green
that I was like, who the fuck are you? I

(29:16):
think it was like a young NEPO who looks good.
Wherever we have to start this is like a nightmare.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Oh yes, because I saw Nikki Bell be like, why
are more people doing color?

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Is that who you're like thinking of? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (29:26):
I agree, Like it was very black and white, but
some people had fun with color, although Chapel I think
was it was too much with the pink. Anyway, this
concludes we've given you Sisci and Niebert we've given you
fashion full fashion.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Oh my god, Mary J. Blige is wearing a clear hat.
She's wearing a clear hat. I like, oh yeah, oh
my god, I just saw her in a photo with
Stella McCartney. That's what I'm looking at right now.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, okay, let's get that.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
Let's get this episode started.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
It's we're going straight from met gala to a very
sad opening of this of a television show. But but
as usual, go to That's Messed Up Live dot com.
Lisa has a bunch of dates coming up. You can
scroll down towards as Lisa's website. You can also shop
our merch promo codes, et cetera. And yeah, let's kick

(30:13):
off today's.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Ep Ooh, Jalen hurts sexy. All right, we're doing the
episode Risk Everyone, Season four, episode twelve, January seventeenth, two
thousand and three.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
I'll be honest, this was like watching it for the
first time again. This was one of those I always
remember the main first scene that you're gonna describe, Yeah,
but then I don't really remember anything after that.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
I well, I I I've watched this now like five times. Yeah, year,
so I do. But one of the most famous starts
of an SVU episode, which is saying a lot because
what a show. So there's men playing basketball and they're
in long sleeves and sweats. It's fun. A woman is
screaming for help off screen. The men know her and

(31:04):
they start running to help her. And Lynn is running
with this baby, screaming, my baby's not breathing, My baby's
not breathing, and it's baby Juan and they zoom in
on the baby. Very cute baby, great little actor. He
wasn't breathing at all, So go get it baby, And
I wonder if the baby got a sad card, so
Benson a stabler or at the hospital getting a low down.

(31:25):
It's Juwan's ten months old respirator elevated heart rate, shallow respirations,
dilated pupils. Staylor goes, sounds like an OD and the
doctor goes, you're right, detective talk screen is positive for cocaine.
So someone dope this kid up. And that's a direct quote.
So then right into the credits, obviously like what do
you follow up with? Like the baby's filled with coke?

(31:47):
So then the mom is, you know, this has like happened.
I finally have realized, like every time I go home
early and I don't know how to stay up. It's
because everyone's on cocaine and no one is telling I
don't do coke, so it's like I wouldn't do it,
but I'm like, I just keep thinking I'm a loser
and all of you are coked up. Yeah, they are
taking steroids of partying. Yeah, they're doping. This keeps happening

(32:10):
to me where I'm like, oh, you guys, I gotta
go to bed, And then the next da, everyone's like
we're up till seven cocaine and I'm like, okay. They
were telling me at night that this has happening. Yeah,
because I feel like I'm getting old, that I'm disconnected,
that I can't party anymore.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
And this reminds me of how like, all through college
I sort of thought everybody was just taking adderall and riddlin,
but it was coke. Like I was like, oh, but
it's at it's aderall right, They're like, yeah, it's adderall.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Like I didn't realize until like we graduated that everybody
was doing coke.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Yeah damn, let us think about it. You know, Yeah,
I don't I've done it. I've done coke many times.
It does nothing for me. I get no thrill out
of it except I am awake talking nonsense to somebody
at seven am, and I suddenly go, I gotta go
to Why am I here? I gotta go home? Like
that's all coke does to me.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
And it's people you don't like, because then I was
just partying and someone came up and they're like, yeah,
we stayed up with this guy un till seven am
or no, ten am, and I was like, do we
even like this person? Yeah, yeah till ten am. What
did you talk to this guy about? Yeah, it doesn't
give me a euphoric feeling at all.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
I'm just awake, talking nonsense and dripping, dripping a fucking pipe.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
It's like a little faucet. I hate it. So anyway,
so the mom is crying with the detectives and she's
obviously pissed, like you think I drugged my baby, and
they're like, no, no, we're not jumping to any conclusions, and
she of course goes, yeah you are. I'm black and
I live in the projects, and you think I coked
up my baby And Benson tells her gonna calm down, yea,

(33:44):
her baby is o DK Season four she's Actually I've
been watching a lot of Season twenty, don't ask, but
it's like they regressed, Like Rollins is so like fuck
the slut and Ben is full anti abortion in multiple episodes.
I was like binge watching season twenty and it's just

(34:05):
Rollin's being like, I don't know, she's a weak victim,
that's a liar, she's a whore, and Benson going, you
might regret, you might regret. I don't know, are you thirteen?
Maybe still give birth to this baby? That's an inside
Like Season twenty became anti abortion and a slut shaming season.
It's really weird.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
Feel like they're trying to trojan horse it in with
like now that lives a mom, you know, she maybe
feels different about abortion, and it's like, no, I feel
more strongly about abortion since I had kids than I
ever have before.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
No. With Marishka, I think it's her religious yeah, but
I think she's pro choice. I do think she's pah choice, yes,
but I think personally she's anti mors. Yes, in terms
of like she is an EP. She is the star
of the show, and the storylines keep yeah happening. We're like,
I don't.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
But then they do these big abortion episodes like the
teen from Ohio who had to come to New York,
you know, like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
But I was watching a thirteen year old who gotten
pregnated by her stepfather. And Benson's like, you're gonna be
a great mom. Oh no, what episode We've done the episode?
We've done this one. And she's like, thirteen got married
in Missouri. They're here, they lied, got the gay teacher killed.
Oh my god, bowling trophy. Nothing, you don't you've done

(35:23):
that one? I think, so, oh my god, I think
we've done.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
What if I write Season twenty SVU bowling trophy, do
you think it'll come up?

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, it was a gay bowling trophy. But I can
also find the good girl. Yeah, we haven't done that.
We haven't. No, thank god.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
I was like, oh my god, like my memory is
truly rotting.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Then if I'm watching it, going, oh I remember.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
If you've just watched it, you might think we did it,
you know, but we we definitely haven't done that one.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
But we'll put it on the list. Well, let's put
it on the list. Let's get the good.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
So we can talk about fucking these ridiculous regressive views.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
That's that's yeah, it's kind of unfortunate. All right, we're back,
we're back, We're so. Then the mom is like, I
work my ass off cleaning houses to keep me in
Juan in that apartment. My mother was a junkie and
I would never And Benson is growing out her pixie
at this point, it's a side sweet bang era, and

(36:24):
so she's like, well, tell me exactly what happened. So,
through tears, the mom is like, I picked him up
from daycare, I brought him home, I fed him, he
wasn't that hungry. I put him to sleep, I put
him in the crib, but when I checked on him,
he was hardly breathing. And Sadler walks back with some
news and Lynn starts crying and asking if her baby
is dead, and he goes no. The doctors do confirm
it's cocaine, though, and the cocaine was mixed in with

(36:44):
the baby formula. So Lynd starts crying, where do you
get where'd you get the formula? And sadly she did
take it. So she cleans houses for this family, and
she was broke. She was gonna return it. She just
didn't have money, and she took the four meat from
this home. So we go to the Fight for Home. Okay,
obviously I think of Michelle Pfife for this whole episode.

(37:06):
And Mom is like, oh my god, thank god you
contacted me. I was just coming back from the park
with Tommy tom and they use the baby Growth brand
and she, you know, she's giving off rich blonde woman.
She didn't even notice that any of the cans were missing.
She buys them by the cases, And what a subtle

(37:26):
way to show the difference between how people live, where
like one person can't even afford formula and the other
doesn't even notice when one goes missing. So then Benson
gets a serious face and is like, you need to
tell us where you got this. And when she goes,
my husband goes to gentry market, like probably a couple
of days ago. And now we know she's lying because
her husband did an errand I don't think so. So

(37:48):
then we're at Daniel Sunjada, former guests of the Pod.
We're in the lab and they took all the baby
formula off the shelves and all of them are clear.
So and then from the Home forward, if only one
other one had the same chemistry as the og killer
one and it's ninety percent pure cocaine. So it's not like, yeah,
it's not like a little drippy drop. No, this baby

(38:10):
is coked up. And so this is a smuggle situation.
It must have come from south of the border, but
how did it get on the onto the shelves. So
then she Sunjada is like, well, baby formula is monitored
very closely to the FDA, so we can match the
number to the manufacture and really get some work done.
Craigan called the FDA and they're pulling the product in
a super fast and important recall, and so the precinct

(38:33):
is buzzing. Everyone's working, you know, and every other baby
formula from that plant are clean. But actually the other
the two that were tainted were not made at that
the same UH factory. They were made in a plant
in Mexico. And then Finn goes Cartel country because you know,
he used to work in narcotics. So how did the
two cans for Mexico end up in the Peifer's closet.

(38:57):
I'm sure it's shelf and not closet, Okay, So then
Craigan go, well, what do we know about them? Benson goes, well,
the mom's home with the baby and the dad is
a stockbroker classic, So we go visit daddy Pfeiffer and
his name's Derek and so he's making stockbroker money and
then drug money on the side. What's going on? And
Munch gets off the phone. He goes, sounds like a
perfect candidate. His credit reports in the dumper, filing for

(39:20):
bankruptcy and he's and then his three hundred thousand dollars
debt miraculously erased, kind of like Brett Cavanaugh. I wonder
who paid off his debts. So then Ring Ring Benson answers,
and Munch and Craigan keep chatting, and Belle Zer goes,
who says crime doesn't pay, and Benson hangs up sadly,
the baby died. Joan is dead. Why did they have
to do that? I know they they had to kill Juwan.

(39:44):
We had to kill Juwan. It's so sad. I guess
for the murder charge, but it's like, do we really
have to war? Like I don't understand why we way
to do this to this young mom? Like this is sad.
I don't I don't need this. I don't need this.
So Stabler's mad, and that's depraved indifference, a murder for
whoever smuggled those drugs in. So Craigan orders them to

(40:06):
go talk to this guy. So we're on broad Street
and it's Crystalia's best friend, Brian Callan, and he sadly
is in this show and an episode of Sex and
the City. So it's really fucking annoying how much this
man worked. But he was the guy that fucked carry
like a rabbit for Charlotte's second wedding. Yeah, and injures her,
and Munch is like, okay, sure, but now we got

(40:28):
to figure out how like this stuff got into the house.
And he keeps working, he's like barely paying attention as
they talk to him. He's like, beats me. Munch asked Derek, like,
have you taken any trips outside the country. He goes, oh, yeah,
I have clients all over the world, YadA, YadA, And
without flinching, Munch is like, well we can go talk
to customs, like, well, who the fuck do you think
you're playing with right now? And he goes, oh yeah, ye, no,
I did just come back from Mexico City company business.

(40:51):
And he also doesn't think it looks good to be
questions in the office and Munch goes, oh my god,
we thought that too, Why don't you come down to
our office. He tries to fight it, but Finn is
serious and is like, I'm gonna cuff you in front
of all of your little coworkers if you don't get
it together. So now the three of them are walking
outside and he's like, I have meetings and things to do,
and it's like your baby could have died and another
baby is dead, so why don't you get it together

(41:12):
and your meetings can wait? And then you know, they
smell a rat and it's Tucker. It's Tucker baby, and
he goes, listen, Craigan signed off on this, I'm taking
him and Finn's like what narcotics wants him, like, what's
going on? This is our case. Stabler comes in hot
to confront Craigan. So we're back in the office and
he's like what the fuck and Craigan is lost. He's like,

(41:33):
I have no idea what you're talking about. Where is
Peiffer And so now he realizes they've all been screwed,
that Tucker's lying to everyone, and Craigan is fucking pissed
and asks to take a ride. So Craigan walks right
up to Tucker, pulls him by the collar and says,
you lying son of a bitch, and he goes, not
only are you trying to steal our case, but you
want my people to think I'm in your pocket? And yeah,

(41:55):
so he's fucking mad, and through gritted teeth, Tucker goes,
get off me.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Now.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
They kind of fight back and forth and basically it's
like where the fuck is Fiffer and they let him go.
Craigan's like, what the fuck? He's a suspect and a
murder investigation, and Tucker threatens that if any of his
people go near Fiffer, they will go before a trial board.
He goes, good, then you can explain why an infant
died on your watch. And he wants to know what
the hell is going on and Tucker tells him no
and to leave, and Craigan pushes him, being like, if

(42:23):
you're involved, that means a dirty cops involved. And Craigan
wants a name, and Tucker tells him to go to hell,
and it's like, are you all this is like so funny?

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Well, I will say, actually, there's a lot in the
real crimes that influences the journey of IAB. I think
in the show and like, what's happening here? I'll just
I'll get to it later, but like you know whos
it's all coming to me now.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
So then Stabler's like, so, what's the next move, boss,
and Craigan goes, go pick him up. Sailor's like a
scared little boy. He's like, wait, but i AB and
Craigan goes, I don't give a fuck, tell him you're
following orders and pick that mother fuck her up. So
we go to pick up the motherfucker on the thirty
fourth floor and guess what, he's on the bathroom floor.
He is dead. He is not breathing. Surprise, surprise, Derek

(43:09):
is dead. Somebody beat them to like to it. So
munch in finner on the case and he was strangled
by a cable and so we talked to his direct boss,
Keith Gerard, and he's in season three s V as well.
We've covered that episode or we have it, we do
it in our live shows. But it's the Elizabeth Bank
Zach Morris episode. Yeah, and he's Ray. Yeah, he's Ray

(43:30):
Borland Boyland well the like the Willy Wonka porn guy. Yeah,
that's yeah, baby, Yeah, and he's also a sex in
the city elm, so that's like really exciting. He wanted
to have a threesomeless Charlotte, so that's really fun. But
this dude, he can't even believe that this could happen
in his building. You know, it's just like by the

(43:52):
board stockbrokers. So since nine eleven, security has been so tight,
So who the fuck made it into this building? Pinna
Munt trying to get scooped from this boss who says
that Derek has been acting different since his demotion, and
they're like, whoa not a demotion, but yeah, all his
biggest accounts lost millions and he used to run the
floor but now he's a loser. And they're like, well, where,

(44:13):
like where's he been, what's going on? He goes, well,
there was a meeting with his managing partners. But he
doesn't fight at all, which is rare, but he goes,
here's all the information. No fighting. He's like, take the records,
take the accounts. My assistant will give you everything you need.
But also, if this was a hit, maybe his wife's
in danger too. So Benson is now in the kitchen

(44:34):
with the wife and like she's filling up a tea
kettle and she's like, no, no, no, my husband would never
be involved with drugs and they go, oh, no, he's
definitely a drug smuggler. She goes no, no, no, absolutely not,
and Sailor's like, well, did you know that your husband
was demoted at work? She did not, and they're like,
did you know he filed for bankruptcy. She's like, well,
I knew we were in debt, so not everything is
as it seems, so because in the beginning, I go,

(44:55):
look at this rich family, but they're in debt. So
Derek said he paid everything off and got a bonus
for closing a big deal. And she puts down the
kettle and then starts to cry. She's very confused. She's like,
I didn't know about this. I didn't know about his job.
He just worked long hours and they're like, what was
he always in the office. She goes, well, three days
a week. He entertained clients at the bowl and the Bear.
So they keep pushing for more infos. She gets really frustrated.

(45:17):
She's like, why are you asking me all these questions?
And they're like, your husband is murdered and probably with
his involvement in drugs and so they might want to
murder you too, and so she goes, oh, no, are
me and Tommy in danger? And it's like, yes, that's
what we've been trying to say, as you've been calmly
making tea and your husband is dead. So they offered
to take her somewhere. She goes, no, I'm just gonna

(45:38):
go to my sister's house. They're like, has anyone threatened you?
And she's back at the kettle. I get a life,
she says. After the detectives left, another man knocked on
the door, saying that Derek sent him to pick up
the formula, and when she said she gave it to
the detectives, this guy got really upset. But he had
a badge done done now we know, like the dirty cop.

(45:59):
So back in Craigan office, Tucker's yelling at everyone, I
told you to back off the case. And Craton goes, actually, Tucker,
you fucked up. You fucked up, and I will fuck
you up even more. And then if like this is
a rare moment, Tucker feels defeated, and so he starts
spilling the news and like, now they're gonna do a
joint task force. So the twice already NYP. Every time
I say it, like whenever I use their terminology, I'm like,

(46:22):
am I a cop? Okay? So twice anytime I say
chief of detectives like joint tat, like any kind of
words like that. So then so he starts spilling the news.
So twice already NYPD have tried to infiltrate the baby
formula cocaine ring, and but the undercovers got made both times,

(46:43):
So there must be a bad cop in there as well, Like,
Who's what's going on that all these undercovers keep being made?
But also I just love that it's taken like months
for any other department. But as he was about to
crack the case in forty five minutes, So we need
to find out who made this bad cokene formula and
that killed that baby, Craigon goes, we're taking this on,

(47:03):
So do you want us to help or do you
want us to get the fuck out of your way?
And you flop on your own, like what do you want?
Tucker goes, fine, what do you need? So the whole
list is fake id's vehicles, drugs, and buy money for starters.
I mean I would love that. So then we're in
business munch in. Finn enter the precinct with news that
every single visitor to that building has been accounted for.

(47:24):
So someone on the inside murdered Derek. So now we
got to look at phone records what stands out? And
Benson thinks what stands out as he calls his wife
with a payphone when he was out, So like when
he's at Bull in the Bear, he doesn't use his
cell phone. He goes out to the payphone to call
his wife. That is strange. So maybe he does business
at the Bull and the Bear too, And so we
go over there and Finn's like, honey, they'll know if

(47:46):
I go there, like I look like a fucking cop.
And Elliott he looks more like a corporate guy. And
he's game, you know, he loves a little theater. So
Finn and Olivia are gonna ghost him. And Finn gives
advice like, hey, so they just lost their baby for
me less scheme, so they need to find a new
way to get drugs into the country. So be their
solution to the problem. And you could really take that

(48:07):
to any job interview. That's great advice. Be the solution
to people's problems. Yeah, and so he knows he needs
to like go in. He's gonna be vulnerable, and Finn's
dropping him off like a proud little narcotics daddy, and
Sailor's wearing glasses for this job. And Finn has more advice.
He goes, never flash or buy money. And if they
offer to buy, you know the test and you know it,

(48:29):
give us. And then he gives him a little bit
of cocaine and a secret recording advice that's not a
wire that they can find because they're obviously professional criminals
and there's backup everywhere. They're recording everywhere. And this bar
is so basic, like if I was entertaining, obviously entertaining
clients is just selling cocaine because this is a this
is just an old timey pub, Like this is not sexy,

(48:50):
this is not strip cluck like this is not a
place you would entertain people spending millions. Absolutely not. No,
Benson wildly over drives at this bar. Yes, while it
looks like she just came back from opening night at
the opera at Lincoln fucking Center, Like she is dressed
insane in a black, sexy off the shoulders strappy number.

(49:12):
Maybe she's supposed to be like a high end escort
or something like this bar is shitty. I cannot stress
this enough. My favorite kind of bar shitty shitty. Yeah,
they could have.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
I guess it's like they have to really telegraph Benson
is being undercover. Like they couldn't just have her like
a sexy top in jeans because it wouldn't like make
it clear enough, I feel, you know, So they have
to like always put her in straight from the opera gear.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
Yeah, yeah they could. I mean, they could have just
put a wig on her, all right, so and hide
that hair. I don't think so. So then Sabler comes in, cocky,
he asks for a beer, last one on the left, whatever,
and the whatever the lady's having. I mean, I love
this flirt. I like love the flirting. She's drinking Scotch
on the rocks, so she's a real guyscal She thanks him.

(49:57):
They have a little flirt. The total is twelve dollars.
It's twelve dollars for a fucking tap beer and a
fucking Scotch on the rocks is twelve dollars. Oh my god,
what those were the days? Like, honestly, what the fuck?
I mean?

Speaker 2 (50:15):
I used to get a picture of beer in college
for five dollars, like you know, things are things are expensive.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
So then a little cocaine falls out of Stabler's pocket
and the bartender sees it too, and this moves really
quickly for talking about an illegal operation. So the baggie
of coke falls. I guess it's like pretty normal for
a Wall Street bar. And then it goes straight to like,
oh is that good? He goes, and then the bartender goes,
I have something better. There's a dealer in the back,

(50:44):
ready to do business and talk. It's like it just
seems crazy. You're like to be this trusting of just one. Yeah,
Benson's fake name is Donna, which I love and whatever.
So now there's a resident dealer and we go to
the resident dealer, and now I'm like, I wonder if
there's resident dealers that like every bar I go to,
and like I just don't notice, And now I was like,

(51:05):
should I be noticing? Like then the bartender comes back
and goes, you know, our resident dealer actually wants to
talk to you, like they're such bad criminals.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
He talked to you immediately, and you look like you're
in the market, Like it's really funny.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
So they go to the bathroom. The guy obviously pushes
them against the wall. You're trying to sell shit on
my turf? What the fuck? He goes. Who the hell
are you? He goes, I'm a guy who's spot you're
parked in, and I don't like competition, and I'm on
the dealer's side for sure on this one, like you
can't just be like throwing your bag of coke anywhere
you want. And the guys Stabler is acting as is insane.

(51:40):
Sailor's aloof like what what what's going on here? He's
like the bartender said you were interested. I don't have
a problem, dude, and then they become friends. Immediately they
talk cocaine business. They talk numbers, three hund grams every
two weeks. The guy's impressed. He goes, I think mine's better.
So they decide to meet at the seaport entrance at
eight pm. They want to meet and the guy goes,

(52:01):
bring your money. So now we're down there and there's
another guy who spins him and says shut up, frisks him.
Stablor goes, nice to meet you too, and the new
man is like, you got the money, and Stablah goes, wow, Wow, Wow, Bethany, Wow,
you don't support other women. So that happens, and then
you want to show me the product and he rubs
it in his hands and he says it's a little

(52:22):
better than mine and I didn't know, like rubbing in
the hands like tests the coke. So then more drug
business talk. They try to make him test it. He goes,
fuck you, I get randomly drug tested at work. I
can't do it. So they start making a deal. So
the first deal doesn't work for him, but the guy
takes a gun out and arrests him. He has a
gold shield, so we found the dirty cop immediately, Like

(52:45):
these guys are so bad at crime. So then Stabler goes,
are you gonna read me my rights? He goes, you
don't have any rights, So they all and so then
everyone's on the screens, you know, watching, So them beat
the crap out of Stabler and then they go to
the another location, and you know, he wants to prove
he's the alpha. So they're beating the shit out of
Stabler and he's like, wait, I hope you didn't bring

(53:07):
me here to just to kick my ass, and he
starts reading fake facts like from his oh he looked
him up. So Gregory Elliott married four kids Forrest Hills House.
You still have that gambling problem, greg and Saber goes, okay,
all right, a little side project for you. What are
you doing? And he keeps going station operations for Global

(53:27):
Package Express? What the fuck does that mean? And Gregory goes,
I run worldwide shipping stations. I don't know, and so
obviously it's a lot of travel, and that's exactly what
they're looking for a solution. So they try to rope
him in with his like packaging job. Elliott goes, no, no, no, no,
I sell small quantities for fun. And he's like, I
do this for an old friend. I'm chill. But the

(53:49):
cop says, oh, babe, I have you with enough that
can put you away for life with a felony. They
unhook him. They say you have told tomorrow to decide
life in prison or be a drug bule. And then
the cop says, call me Kendall and one more thing,
punches him in the face for his attitude. So they
drive off tires squealing, and now we're back at work.
So this Kendall guy, he's been on the job for

(54:10):
thirteen years and nine of those years he was in
Manhattan narcotics. He has lots of decorations, so at one
point he was a good cop. And Benson's like, yeah,
I'm sure he just watched all these drug people get
rich while he was a loser and decided he wanted
a little taste. So Finn's like, damn, I should have
done that. I would have been so rich, And Benson
adds he matches the description that Mama Feiffer gave of

(54:32):
the cop who came looking for the formula. It was
also the first time that the door guys saw Kendall,
which means the exchange probably happened at the bar. But
then Stabler asks, well, who was the butt boy, you
know what I mean? And the butt boy is the
dealer at the bar. So that's Frank Berry, thirty in
and out of jail, mostly for possession. They're soldiers, they're
not had people like he wouldn't know more information. He's

(54:54):
like a loser. So but we don't know how big
this is. And there's obviously more runners than just like
this dead guy Peiffer. These guys aren't in charge. They
need to get new drugs and people like quick, you
know what I mean? Because all these customers are gonna
find new cocaine dealers. It's an addiction. So then Stabler
goes to meet Kendall at a restaurant. So we're at

(55:15):
this restaurant and Kendall's like, why are we here? Stabler goes,
this is where I do business, and he's like, I
don't remember us talking about money while you were kicking
my ass, So let's get down to business. He goes, oh,
I'm letting you stay out of jail. That should be
enough nothing to talk about. Stabler is like, okay, what's
stopping me from going to the cops and telling them
that they're shaking me down? He goes, I'm a hero cop,

(55:35):
and he goes, who do you think they're gonna believe?
And Stabler's character is like, you must think I'm some
dumb ass punk. Huh. You know what? I think you're
trying to stay in business. And then Kendall smiles and
he says, you got a crystal ball. He's like, no,
but you sure are acting desperate. Your blackmailing meat to
work for you desperado, and he goes, okay, hero cop,

(55:56):
lock me up. And then they sit in silence and
Kendall knows you he's been gotten, you know what I mean.
Gregory Elliott wants a third of the profits and for
whatever he ships, and he also wants to know the
scoop of what went wrong, and Kendall goes, no, I
don't share that kind of stuff, and then Stabler goes, well,
I don't do business with liars and screw ups, and yeah,
I just love this, and then Kendall goes, I'll take

(56:17):
you to my people, and Sablor bullies him your people,
what you can't make your own deal? I guess you're
a fucking loser. Doesn't sound like you're that high up
the food chain, and he throws cash on the table
and says, try the veal. It's great. Ah, I love it.
And then Stabler back at work with his dress shirt's
a little loosen. I think he knows he did like

(56:39):
a good job at work. And basically what they want
from Stabler or from Gregory Elliott, is to bring in
ten boxes of terra cotta tiles and the tiles are
going to be made out of a cocaine base, four
kilos of boxes, and each one is worth eighty k.
And then the cover story is he's retiling the kitchen
and all of this is gonna come from Mexico City.

(57:01):
Cabin and Craigan are like, wait, fuck, that's out of
our jurisdiction and our league. You have to tell Kendall
you can't do that, and someone in Mexico City can
do the drop and then like you will pick it
up at your Forest Hills house. So then the delivery
company can drive it off and then Kendall can like
come pick up the tiles from you. Craigan's gonna get
Da Involved two for the operation and make everything like

(57:22):
to make sure everything goes okay in Mexico and at
the house. So but the cabot's kind of nervous and says, well,
Kendall could be working with Dea as well, and Craigan goes, well,
it's a chance we'll have to make. So now we're
at a giant nice house and all the boxes are here.
Kendall's get ready to get the tiles. They rip open
the box. Yes, yes, tiles are made of cocaine. Kendall goes, damn,

(57:44):
this is the most we've been able to bring in
at once in a really long time. Stabler goes, hell, yeah,
happy customer. That'll be two hundred and sixty seven thousand dollars,
and then Kendall has a gym bag of cash. But
then Benson comes out, honey, are those the tile And
it's like, okay, she was also at the bar, like
everything is moving so fast, so fast. Stabler goes, no, honey,

(58:08):
there's a mistake. We're gonna exchange them, and then he goes,
ours are in the van, but Benson runs down anyways
and goes, baby, you got a shower. We have to
be at Vanessa and Glens in two hours. And then
the shipping van starts driving back up to the house
and Kendall looks panicked, and Kendall takes out his gun
and yells get everyone back back back and then runs

(58:28):
off into the yard. Stabler runs after him, screams, police, Kendall, freeze, freeze,
drop the gun, drop your gun. He decides to do
suicide by cops. Stabler has to shoot him. He says,
call a bus and he shook. He goes, that's son
of a bitch wanted me to shoot him. Craigan says
he didn't have the guts to do it himself, which
is weird. It's weird, like, yeah, and I don't love it,

(58:49):
and Stabler's that I don't think it takes guts to
do that, and uh, you know season four. So Stabler's
like really bothered by what happens and confused, and tears
are forming in his eye and obviously this this is
gonna lead to an IAB meeting. Tucker is being surly
as usual and suspicious, like Kendall didn't even fire your weapon.
You did, And it's like Kendall's been selling cocaine for

(59:12):
nine years. Yeah, why do you suddenly trust him more
than Stabler, well, who also breaks the rules. Never mind,
Saber's like I told you before millions of times, over
and over. He picked up his gun and pointed it
at me. I think I forgot to say. They're doing
like an you know, the private Private Talks, Private Talks
investigation discussion. Tucker doesn't care. He's on modified duty, restricted

(59:34):
to the office until the investigation's complete aka end of
the episode, so he's not allowed to make arrests or
interrogate anybody, and he's pissed to be at the priest sink.
He goes, this motherfucker makes me shoot him and I
get investigated. Fuck you. Benson goes I don't know, Maybe
you should take a few vacation days. He says, no,
not until I find out who bankrolled Kendall. He killed

(59:56):
the only lead we have, and Finn and Craigan are
at the whiteboard and Kendall killed Fifer choked his ass out,
and now we find out that there was Dandriff left
on the body, and that Dandriff matches Kendall.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
So that's like, I didn't know that was a thing
that you could identify Dandriff.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
But I guess it's skin cells. Yeah, it's like it's
the hair, it's all of it. But like, yeah, you
always should their evidence, You always leave evidence behind. Yeah,
I got some should be humiliated like this after get
like you're dead, you've been your disgraced cop and now
I know you have dandruff busted by Dandriff. Oh humiliating.

(01:00:37):
So yeah, make sure your scalp is nice and not
flaky if you're planning to commit some murders. So now
they're brainstorming altogether. How do we get to the top.
Guy Munch hangs up the phone and goes, well, maybe
the woman Fifer might have some answers. We found the
bag of formula in her kitchen and if Derek's bringing
it in but like customs, YadA YadA trips to Mexico.

(01:00:59):
She also traveled with him the last three weeks, and
she made five round trips, all different flights than her husband.
So duh, the mom is smuggling the cans. Traveling with
the babies. A few extra canisters of baby formula doesn't
set anybody off. And Benson's like, duh, that's why she
denied protective custody. She's the mule, not Derek. Damn.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
But meanwhile, I'm getting every single bottle of my breast
milk now swabbed at the airport.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Because of shit like this.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
You know, they're not letting you through with the formula
cans anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Oh, I thought it was just nine to eleven stuff.
Is it because of drug deals?

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
I think it's because I think they used to probably,
I mean this is post nine to eleven. I think
they were like letting people through like that were moms
and stuff. I don't think they were that, but like, uh,
I don't know, I don't know. I just know that
like they will open up your breast milk and like
test every single fucking thing that you have and it's
really annoying when you like a baby with you too,

(01:02:01):
But I'll get into that more later too.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
But we know Derek is involved too, so we got
to go talk to his boss again, like what the
fuck is going on? So they go talk to Keith
your Art aka Roy Boyland, and Craigan wants to come
with and stayble to stay because Stable has to stay
in the office, So Benson and Craigan head on down.
He's sticking to the story that he was working with
a billionaire entrepreneur who's afraid to fly. But Benson's like, wait,

(01:02:27):
it wasn't Derek a demoted loser? Why would you trust
him with your billionaire clients? And so it's like a
walk and talk. He tells his assistant to fact something
to Chicago Pampa Pranpa. He's being dismissive of the detectives.
He's annoyed, and he's hitting the space bar of his
desktop a lot, and then he finally is like, what
does this have to do with Derek's death? And they go, well,
he's smuggling coke on your dime and he shocked. He goes,

(01:02:48):
are you kidding me? They go yeah, with his wife
and son and he giggles, and I knew this couldn't
be true. It's not Derek because Derek and Laura don't
have any children, so who the fuck ism they rented
some kid out for drug muling, Like this is wild.
Cregan's like, there's no way that this is the only baby.
I bet there's a ring of mothers, a ring of babies. Like,

(01:03:09):
we need to go talk to Laura, who's staying at
her sister's house to get some information off of Staten Island.
So they go over there. They go to the house.
They hear a baby crying and crying. Nobody's helping the baby,
no one's answering the door, and then they also see
broken glass in a window, so they're like, we have
to go in there. That's cause to enter. When they
entswer Benson picks up the baby. The baby stops crying
immediately as she comforts him. She's like, wait are you Maricha?

(01:03:32):
And so then Laura and the sister are dead shot
in the head, left the baby to cry. So I'm
glad the baby. So many fucking twists. This is truly
like an HBO like premiere drama in the tooth, like
late two thousand like, this is so much. This is Homeland,
this is Homeland, this is so good Prestige, So this

(01:03:55):
prestige television, so many twists and terms. Everyone's dead. I'm
happy the baby's alive, but very Dexter coded. This baby's
obviously gonna have trauma. And then I was watching the
newest Dexter series that I hated but on the in
the air and I liked it in the skies, so
I'm I, ah, everything's different. Yeah, So the time of
death is four to eight hours ago, so it couldn't

(01:04:17):
have been Kendall because we were talking to him. So
who is tying up loose ends? Is it the cartel?
And Finn goes, no, fuck no, the cartel would have
killed the baby, Like are you kidding them? Bunsen runs
out with the news that Tommy was Laura's nephew. So
then we give stablers something to do. While he's in
the office, he's gonna search murderers that like happening that
are involving infants, because maybe it's like all these moms

(01:04:38):
are getting killed right now with the babies being kept alive,
So are there murders happening right now that are tying
up the loose ends that with infants. So now they're
all on the calls. They're calling everyone, and we hear
Finn on a call go, yeah, I'm serious. No, I'm
not being difficult, yes, with a baby. But it's also

(01:05:00):
like not that crazy of a request. It's like svu,
what are we talking about? Why? But then uh, and
then Finn has attitude about this too. He goes, totuola,
you want me to spell it for you? Yeah? Yeah,
that's not a common name. That too? Oh you, Like,
what the fuck are you talking about? Finn? He's acting
like tootuola it is smith, like we should all to
spell it. Staylor's yelling at everyone because he's a menace.

(01:05:22):
He wants his gun back. And then Kathy's wildly there.
She's bringing him dinner, trying to calm him down, begging
him to eat. It's after midnight. Who's with the kids?
Who's with the kids.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
So I have some I sort of have a theory
that like the older teens are watching oh yeah yeah,
or that like Kathy has siblings or in the area
that are helping.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
Yeah. Yeah, he couldn't get his own sandwich. This is
not this is nuts. So he kisses her with his
eyes wide open while looking at the pushpin board, like
he won't even close his eyes for a kiss. He's
like still looking at the evidence. Cragan runs out of
his office goes, Olivia, grab your coat. Another one in Queen's.
One body found in water. Stabler's devastated to be missing out.

(01:06:10):
So we go to Queen's homicide. Two victims dead, an
eight month old babies screaming in another room. So they're
letting the babies live, thank god, but they're killing all
the caretakers. But in Staten Island it was a break
in and all the rest of them, it's no sign
of force entry, so like the victims knew who they
led into the home. So then Benson finds an invoice
to Keith Gerard, the finance boss, and it's said that

(01:06:31):
the victim did landscaping for him. That's no coincidence. This
motherfucker is the top dog, the finance stockbroker is the
top dog. He's dealing drugs from the brokerage firm. He's
renting babies from people who work for him that need
the money, like a landscaper. And now he has to
kill all of these people that are just working hard
and leaving these babies with no parents. So we rushed

(01:06:52):
back to the office. The secretary goes, oh, he's at
the corporate daycare center. Oh my god. Benson hook swaying.
Benson and Craigan run to the care but not before
it's telling the secretary like, if this motherfucker calls, do
not tell him we're here. She's confused, but she doesn't.
I bet she doesn't get paid enough to care. So
or it's a bustling kids center, parents and kids everywhere
they spot Keith. He spots them. He grabs a woman,

(01:07:14):
puts a guns to her head. Immediately all guns are out.
We're doing like a hallway. You know, he's walking with
this woman with a gun to the head. Craigan and
Benson are like, don't do it, don't do it. And
then Craigan and Benson see Finn, who's behind him. So
Finn is like sneaking in another like in another hallway
stairway behind So then scream Keith is like, you think

(01:07:35):
I'm a fucking idiot, And Benson and Craigan, knowing Finn's there,
go fine, will lower a fucking weapons, so they and
so then that makes Keith trusts them. He lets go
of the woman, throws her and starts to run away,
but Finn is there to push him down the stairs,
so he goes toppling down the stairs. I thought the
woman he threw looked familiar, but when I looked her up,
she only had one credit and the credit is woman

(01:07:55):
in SVU, So I was wrong. So he's on the ground.
Fincuffs him. Keith is like, I can make you guys rich.
Benson goes, why don't you use that money for a
fancy lawyer. You're gonna need it to appeal the death penalty.
And then to me, I'm like, why not just do
the drugs? Why the murder? Just go to Brazil, Like
you could have already been on a flight leaving the

(01:08:16):
country and never be seen again. Like, I'm really confused
why you had to, Like, who cares about the loose ends.
You're the top dog. Get the fuck out of the country.
I'm sure you could afford a private jet.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Yeah, I think guys like this, just think if I
just clean it up and get rid of the people involved,
I can keep living my life and go my merry way.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
The cops won't have a case. Yeah, I'm sure he's
murdered before, Like, murder is not even that yeah, ye
oh yeah. Like he's like, whatever, sa, I'll murder a
few moms, yeah yeah, yeah, out of my way. So
Craigan puts Stabler's gun and badge onto his desk. The
DA office isn't dragging him in front of a grand jury,
and iab cleared him in two days. Stabler's shocked how
soon this happened, and Craigan's like, yeah, they're trying to

(01:08:51):
spare their own embarrassment, but Sailor isn't buying it. He goes,
what did this cost you? And Craigan goes, not nearly
what it's worth. I don't know is that good or
I don't know if that means not. I don't know
what else I don't know. They stare into each other's
eyes deeply. Benson walks in. They all got they got
all the ten mothers, and I wonder what the charges
are gonna be. But Girard gave them twenty grand to

(01:09:13):
rent the babies, and Benson asks, hey, are you gonna
Are they making you see a shrink? He says yes.
She asks you've been there? Not yet? He responds, and
she's like I thought I was okay when I shot
that guy too, But even a low lifelike Kendall is
gonna stay with you. Stabler cuts her off, goes, I
need to go home, and you know, thanks her for
her kind words. And then Benson goes, how long has

(01:09:35):
that sandwich been there? And he goes, I got busy.
It's all yours. So she's gonna eat Stabler's leftover sandwich.
But I'm sure Kathy makes a mean, a mean sandwich,
and she asks you sleeping? He says yeah, but then
he turns his back before exiting and asked, seeing the shrink,
did that help? And she goes not much, and they

(01:09:56):
stare at each other. He goes home. I guess she
eats the sandwich. That's a dickwolf baby, A true a
true classic. I mean, just.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
So many fucking twists and turns. There's a bunch of
places where they could have just ended it now.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
It's an incredible episode from start to finish, so many babies,
so much twists, like I was surprised the whole time,
Like I fucking love this episode. It's really good.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
Yeah, okay, well let's get into the true crimes. Because
they borrowed a lot from real life, obviously. The very
first portion of the episode is based on the overdose
of Chantelle Lisby. She was an eleven month old girl

(01:10:44):
who was living in foster care with her siblings, a
brother aged two and a sister aged five. They'd been
abused by their parents, so in September of ninety nine,
they replaced with a twenty six year old foster mother
named Letitia Jefferson, who had her own daughter eleven and
son four. I just think twenty six seems really young
to have five kids under your care. But I know

(01:11:05):
it's not a perfect system, but that seems like quite
a young person to be taking all that on. On
June first of two thousand, Jefferson took Chantelle to Woodhull
Medical and Mental Health Center in Brooklyn because she was
having seizures and was unconscious, and much like the episode,
she tested positive for cocaine in her system, and sadly,

(01:11:25):
she died shortly after being admitted to the hospital, and
later an autopsy confirmed that cocaine was the cause of death.
So immediately her siblings were returned to ACS custody. Her
biological children were removed from the home in place with
a family member. She had no criminal record, but her boyfriend,
who frequently stayed in the home, who was twenty one,
had a bunch of drug arrests. ACS and NYPD investigated

(01:11:50):
whether the ingestion of the cocaine was accidental or intentional.
And the saddest part is, I cannot find another thing
about it. There's a few New York posts, like, you know,
like New York Times article is about, like, you know,
baby found with cocaine. But then, sadly, I think because
it's a black child, it's not front page news at anymore,

(01:12:10):
and they just I have no idea if they got
like all we got was like there was some coverage
after the autopsy confirmed it was cocaine was the cause
of death.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
So yeah, I think it's so it's fucked. I looked everywhere.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
I was looking up the mom's name, I was looking
up the baby's name, I was looking up everything. I
could not find whether this was dude to any kind
of you know, intentional like that. The baby, I mean,
this kid was eleven months old, so possibly walking she
could have gotten into some cocaine. I seriously doubt anybody
would just give a baby cocaine for shit.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
But I'm also shocked that her boyfriend had drug arrests
and she was still able to say and she was
cleared to be a foster parent. Yeah. Yeah, they might
not have known. He might not have existed when she
was cleared.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
I don't know, but yeah, so I think they grabbed
the overdose of the baby from here, but then the
full drug smuggling ring with the babies is all real.
In December of two thousand and one, FEDS charged thirty
five people with running an international drug smuggling ring where
women traveling with infants transported cocaine and heroin in cans

(01:13:19):
of baby formula. So this is what two years before
this episode came out, like, this episode was like three Yeah,
so some of the infants were like in the episode,
not the women's children. They were rented from low income families.
And I use the word rented in quotes because you
don't rent a child over two years. This investigation covers

(01:13:43):
two years of female couriers flying thirty four times with
twenty different babies from Chicago to Panama. So basically they
would fly down there, pick up the formula, then that
was injected with liquefied cocaine, and then fly back. Others
smug cocaine from Jamaica inside of rum bottles, the handles
of their suitcases, or sometimes it like put into their

(01:14:07):
body cavities. It says like, I don't know if that's
condoms or what or whatever we're talking about. But drugs
were then circulated in Chicago and New York, but then
also some abroad in like UK, like London and other
parts of England. So some of the babies came from
Englewood on Chicago's South Side of Chicago. Their parents were
paid between two hundred to two thousand dollars plus marijuana

(01:14:31):
in some cases, to send their babies on trips that
ranged from two days to two weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
What's you what's your what's your price? Skara? What are
you gonna write out little Oscar for? Honestly, you guys
don't want Oscar. He's gonna tattle, he's gonna tell, he
will not stop monologuing, and he's gonna tell, Oh my god,
today we drove faster apartment building and Oscar goes, why
does Lisa not live there anymore?

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
And I was like, she moved to New York And
he was like why. I was like, because she wants
to live there? Who was your building?

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
Is still there?

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
Your building to them? But the daughter of Keith Moore
thirty five and Marissa Hardy twenty two. Their daughter made
six trips, the first one when she was three weeks old.
Like this is dangerous, Like these babies are not vaccinated
at that point, Like they're so little, they're so susceptible
to like getting sick.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
It's like really bad.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
A courier was arrested with more and Hardy's baby in
London and where they also found six kilos of cocaine
in eighteen formula cans. Obviously, the parents lost custody were
charged with renting their children. They didn't end up murdered
by like the cartel or whatever. But the whole operation
was uncovered when a customs official at Newark Airport stopped

(01:15:45):
a woman in January of ninety nine. She was traveling
to London and they found six formula cans filled with
liquid cocaine. Now, the people who supplied the drugs were
apparently named Classy or Clay Clacy. I don't know how
you say that name Clacy Watson Herrera and Byron Watson
of Montego Bay, Jamaica I had no idea this was
all coming out of Jamaica. This is very not iri

(01:16:07):
if you've been to Jamaica. They supplied the drugs. They
would liquefy the cocaine in a blender with hot water,
then use a syringe to put the coke into the
formula cans through these like tiny holes that they would drill,
and then they would close the whole like solder it
closed and reattach the formula labels.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
So that's how they did it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
Each sixteen ounce can held up to seven hundred thousand
dollars worth of cocaine, which was later turned into crack
for sale on the streets. Authorities seized twenty kilos of
cocaine on four trips, and they believe as many as
forty five trips were made. The suspects all faced five
years to life and finds it up to four million

(01:16:46):
and Patrick J. Fitzgerald, who was the US Attorney for
the Northern District of Illinois, said this operation preyed on
the great respect that we as human beings afford all
mothers and babies and betrayed that respect brazenly renting baby
for the purpose of allowing drug dealers to smuggle cocaine
is truly a new low and that's that on that,

(01:17:07):
But then the kendle of it all is based on
a very interesting case, the Michael Dowd case. Now this
is felt like kind of like fascinating how this all
ties into the SVU universe at large. Michael Dowd was
born and raised New Yorker who became a cop in
nineteen eighty two and eventually worked in the seventy fifth

(01:17:27):
Precinct in East New York, which is a part of
Brooklyn that was very rough in the eighties and nineties.
So the guy drove this guy, Dowd drove a red
Corvette to work and occasionally had a limo pick him
up from work so he could go.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
To Atlanta City.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
Okay, So I mean, if you're do whatever you're doing,
you're trying to get noticed or you're dumb. And that
is because from nineteen eighty six to nineteen ninety two,
Dowd and his partner Kenneth Kenny Murrel were part of
a corrupt gang of officers inside his precinct who robed
drug dealer and then dealt cocaine.

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
They would warn.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
Dealers about raids, they would give the dealers guns and badges.
They even stole food from a church one time that
was for needy people, so.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
You know, the worst of the worst.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
There was also an alleged abduction of a queenswoman that
happened as well, and apparently Dowd and Urrell they were
working with a cartel. They were working with several drug
dealers and some cartels who wanted to kill this woman
after her husband stole two hundred thousand dollars of coke
from them. So unfortunately for Dowd, his partner Kenny Murrel

(01:18:39):
had already turned on him and was working for the FEDS,
so he was wearing a wire every time they met
to talk about this kidnapping. So when the kidnapping was planned,
the FEDS were able to swoop in and rescue that woman,
so she was never kidnapped. But that that's only because
the partner had already turned and was like an informant.

(01:19:01):
So now Dowd was also an enforcer for the Diaz Organization,
which was a Dominican cartel. He gave them protection and
inside information. At one point he found a guy who had.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
I understand if like, you're very desperate and you need stuff,
and you go to the cartel because you have nothing
and you need like truly, But if you're not doing
that bad, they don't have a great reputation. They're not
like level headed guys, Like why would you get why
would you get involved with the cartel?

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
I mean this is pre Breaking Bad, but you watch
one episode, you watch that guy's head on a tortoise,
and you go, I'm not fucking with the cartel.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
But all the cartels have cops in their pockets, So
this is one of the guys that's just like can
be bought at a certain price.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
That's what I mean with the cop. It's like you
need the corvette. Yeah, yeah, he did. I understand if
you're like a desperate person that needs your kid over
the border because there's rebels in the land that are
murdering everyone and are like an authoritative government.

Speaker 2 (01:19:57):
You're a high school chemistry teacher and you know how
to make meth and you're dying of cancer and you're
gonna have to leave your family, Like there's certain people
we let do this.

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
Well. The thing with Walter, I can't believe Breaking Bad
didn't change. I wonder if Breaking Bad coincided with Obamacare, though,
Like I do wonder if that helped, because that was
a big show for us. Yeah. Huge. I just talked
about breaking bad yesterday. Actually, So at.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
One point, this guy doubt finds a guy who had
robbed the Diaz cartel and delivered him back to the cartel.

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
Like he could have arrested the guy and like used
him to take down the cartel if he was a
good cop, But he just delivered this guy back to
the cartel for probably certain death.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
Like this man was probably absolutely murdered. So the cops
brought in eight thousand dollars a week by turning a
blind eye on some drug deals, but also busting drug deals,
stealing the merchandise and selling it themselves. One of Dowd's
performance reviews, however, said he had excellent street knowledge quote unquote,
and was quote unquote empathetic.

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
To the community. I guess accurate. I mean that's accurate.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
He has excellent street knowledge, and he's empathetic to the
community in the sense that he is helping them deal drugs.
He was finally arrested in nineteen ninety two, when he
was thirty two years old, by Suffolk County it wasn't
even the NYPD, it was Suffolk County that caught him
over wiretap, interacting with like smaller time drug dealers. And
this case is what inspired David Dinkins, the Mayor of

(01:21:26):
New York at the time, to form the mall In Commission,
which I'm almost positive SVU has brought up before, which
was also known as the City of New York Commission
to investigate allegations of police corruption and the anti corruption
procedures of the Police Department, which was founded in nineteen
ninety two. The commission found that while the NYPD had
received over sixteen complaints about Dowd and others, senior officers

(01:21:50):
ignored those allegations and blocked anyone investigating them so that
the department wouldn't look bad. Okay, They found out that
for a decade, the NYPD had quote abandoned its responsibility
to ensure the honesty of its members.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
And that's from the New York Times.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
And this, apparently, according to the commission, was a top
down thing, obviously, as it always is. Right the police
commissioner at the time, Benjamin Ward, there had recently been
a corruption scandal in a different Brooklyn precinct and he
did not want he thought another one would like really
really damage the department, so he's like tried to keep
this one as under the rug as possible. Senior officials

(01:22:31):
didn't want any trouble in their precincts because they thought
it would affect their careers, so they also turned a
blind eye on shit like this, So any bad reports
about these guys were purposefully isolated so that a pattern
could never emerge, Like no, they could never feel like,
oh this guy again and he still do it like
this kind of thing. So they found also that they
were closing out cases before all the leads were checked out.

(01:22:52):
So the commission's report said that they found a quote
willful effort end quote by internal affairs to ob struck
the investigation. So IAB was being bad, So IAB yes,
So I feel like it's very interesting that that's why
when the show starts, Granted this is ninety two, it's
only seven years later, and this commission probably all its

(01:23:14):
findings have not gone into like effect, you know how
it takes a long time for like change to happen,
Like I would assume that by ninety nine when SVU airs,
and also they're also going off of shit from Law
and Order original recipe which was on earlier in the nineties,
that IAB is bad, Like IAB is fucking with good
cops and they're covering up for dirty cops or whatever.

(01:23:36):
But you could see like the as as I think
in real life, IAB has gotten cleaned out in the
NYPD at least, so has the show changed its view
on Tucker, And like Tucker becomes a good guy basically,
but at the beginning, he's this shit who's just trying
to make these good cops life harder, and like in

(01:23:56):
this case or just they never know whether they're taking
someone like Brian Callen aside because they're going to like
release him, or because they're like there's a bad guy,
or because of some operation that they can't talk about,
you know, like is it legit or is it shady behavior.

Speaker 1 (01:24:13):
So I just thought it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:14):
Was interesting that all this was going on, like just
a few years before the show premiered, in these early
episodes where IAB always looks like the assholes. An example
of one of IAB's negligence is in July of nineteen
eighty eight, three officers from the seventy fifth Precinct. This
one that Dowd was a part of robbed a grocery
store that was also a drug front. These three dumbasses

(01:24:36):
got arrested after their car was found parked near the precinct.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
Drugs money in plain sight in the car. Yeah, but
why wouldn't they They've been getting away with it. The
bosses are on their side, like, yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (01:24:48):
It's happy roh and jacket over the Duffel bag, Like
it's just so messy, right, It's it's just like you
don't need to be careful when you've been getting away
with shit forever. So weeks later, Internal Affairs was notified
that there was a possibility Dowd was involved in the robbery.
He'd been seen with these officers at a bar right
before the robbery. Plus two dealers told Internal Affairs that

(01:25:10):
they paid Dowd three to four thousand a week plus
an ounce of coke for protection. I love how they're
just like, and here's a bag of coke that's for you,
that's for you to keep sell it, use it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:19):
Have fun. But nothing was done.

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
Iab had these tips, they had these reports, they had
these drug dealers.

Speaker 1 (01:25:25):
They did nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:25:25):
They only focus on the three officers who they originally arrested.
They protected Dowd, and that could be like a seniority thing.
I don't know who the three officers were. They were
probably lower on the totem pole.

Speaker 1 (01:25:35):
As I said.

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
They eventually got Dowd in ninety two. He stood trial
in ninety four and was convicted of racketeering and conspiracy
to distribute narcotics. At his sentencing, he said, quote, I
think the first thing I'd like to do is apologize
to each and every police officer that has had to
work under the guys I left them two years ago.
It's a very difficult job, and I made it much

(01:25:56):
more difficult, and for that I apologize. He also at
the sentencing tried to blame his own drug addiction for
his actions. He was like, he said, quote, having a
drug addiction and being a police officer is one of
the most difficult things there is to deal with. I'm
sure more difficult than many things people have to deal
with day to day.

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
Sir.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
Anyway, he says, as a police officer, your heart is
ripped in half when you're addicted with drugs. There are
times I wished I was dead because I couldn't stop
what I was doing.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
But instead, I bought a red convertible in me yes
of it, and I went to Atlantic City to push
through the heartache, Like, come on, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:26:30):
He was sentenced to fourteen years in prison with possible
parole after eleven, which was a little bit under the max.
He did not get the full max because he cooperated
with the Malan Commission. But the judge also in the
case was presented evidence that Dowd was trying to escape
after to Nicaragua after he was arrested, So I don't
think she was likely to listen to any of his

(01:26:50):
pleas of guilt or feeling bad about and his apologies.
You know, he also he cooperated with the Malan Commission,
but he would not rat any other officers involved, none
of them. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
I kind of like that he won't rat out the buddies. Okay,
I don't hate that. It's like he's already caught. He's
gonna get in trouble. At least he has loyalty to something,
not humanity, but some of his friends, at least his
partner Killery. Do I have the wrong opinion?

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
Well, you know, if he rat it, it would only be
to save himself, Like if you rat it, he probably
would have goten a couple years shaved off, and he
was maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:27:24):
I mean, I don't know. I don't know how I.

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
Feel about the loyalty and the rating when it comes
to crime, but who knows. So anyway, Kenny, his partner,
got no jail time. And apparently this guy was like
a bumbling drunk idiot. I think he just like fell
into this gang, and like I think he was like
so lucky that he just kind of noped out of
jail time by helping the Feds and getting busted first.

(01:27:47):
At his sentencing, at dowd sentencing, judge Kimba m Wood said,
Kimba Kimba, Wow, Yeah, she's it's a female judge, and
she said Dowd's crime quote betray and immorality so deep
that it is rarely encountered. You did not just fall
prey to temptation and steal what was in front of you,

(01:28:08):
or take kickbacks or sell confidential law enforcement information. You
also continually searched for new ways to abuse your position,
and at times you recruited fellow officers to join in
your crimes. So he served, He served twelve and a
half years, and he's out and in prison, he claims
he worked as a peer counselor and he ran addiction

(01:28:28):
and suicide prevention programs and stuff like that. There was
supposed to be a movie about him. Let's see, there was.
Hold on, I forgot to put this all in here,
but there was. He's been featured on several podcasts and
says and there was a documentary called The Seven five
about the precinct, and then a narrative movie was supposed

(01:28:53):
to happen with Sony but that was all announced in
like twenty twenty and stuff. And I feel like it
like it was like a pandemic died in the pademic.

Speaker 1 (01:29:01):
So the movie has yet to come.

Speaker 2 (01:29:03):
But he I read some interviews with him where he
was like they were like, are you gonna be involved
in the movie. He's like, I believe I am, so
I think he was trying to definitely, you know, who
knows what the guy's doing now? He I think there
was a lie.

Speaker 1 (01:29:18):
He knows he did something wrong or like I wonder
what his stories and podcast things are like.

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
There were his interviews about well, he he talks about
how he wanted to like either get back into the
police force or like go to the Police Academy and
help them root out bad cops or something like help
like you know, and they were like, no, we're good,
like they didn't want that. So but yeah, I saw
he did, Like I think I put it in my

(01:29:44):
I think in my sources. He does an interview with
the Intelligencer and it was like a lot of this
was I think press in twenty fifteen around the documentary
that came out the seven five, And yeah, the guy
who did the documentary was supposed to adapt it into
a movie, and I think it just like never happened.

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
But yeah, I mean, yeah, very close to the episode. Yeah,
so clost to the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:30:08):
I mean they definitely combined a lot of the things,
like the bad cops were not actually doing the formula,
but they were doing the other things, and then other
people were doing the formula.

Speaker 1 (01:30:17):
But it also just it's it just shows how dumb
cops starts, like to get a red Corvette to me
is so insane. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:30:26):
Yeah, it's also they've done that on this show too,
like where a guy will have like a nice car
and they'll be like, how did you pay for that car?
And then they start searching your bank records, you know,
like don't be dumb.

Speaker 1 (01:30:35):
But he was cocky. I mean, they had complaints about him,
no one did anything, no one cared.

Speaker 2 (01:30:40):
Yeah, I mean yeah, it was like it was the
eighties and the early nineties. I feel like it was
a really huge time of police corruption. And I'm not
saying it's gotten super better, but uh, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:30:52):
I think it's worse. I would say, well, I'm assuming worse.

Speaker 2 (01:30:57):
Well that I mean, the thing is is like what
body cameras now? Like that Actually one of the article,
one of the interviews with the guy, he was like,
they were like, do you think ops where body cameras?
He's like absolutely, like and he was saying that he
thinks the NYPD is way better now. And I mean
this is also coming from like a full criminal, So
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
Know, yeah, because I think about Eric Gardner, like I
just like they are this is is this pre stopping
for risk? You know what I mean. It's just like
I uh will never fully trust. Yeah. He again he
said after this podcast, whatever opinions I had pre the

(01:31:36):
pot I mean, no one will ever change my mind,
like every Yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (01:31:41):
He said he thinks that the NYPD takes it more
seriously today and He's like, they use my case for training,
and he that this is where he says, I asked
permission to go back to the police academy and be
involved with a symposium or Q and A, and the
police commissioner.

Speaker 1 (01:31:56):
Was like, no, no, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
But uh when they asked him who he would like
to play him in the feature movie, he said, I've
been told Ryan Gosling, Marky Mark or James Franco.

Speaker 1 (01:32:07):
And then he goes or whoever else is cute. All
three of those men look wildly different, and I just
care he understands casting. Yeah, he doesn't care about similarity.
I think he just wants a houghty to play him.
You know, sure we'll get a hottie, but like, yeah, he.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
Looks when you see pictures of him, like, check out
my Source and Intelligencer if you're interested in a picture
of him, because the pictures of him, I mean, god,
when he's a.

Speaker 1 (01:32:34):
Cop in the here, I'll send you the link.

Speaker 2 (01:32:36):
When he's a cop in the Oh my god, in
the eighties, he has the mustache. But then when he
finally goes on trial and gets busted, he looks like
a mob guy. You know, he's got like a real.
He's got a real sort of like mob look to him.
Maybe Miles Teller that would be his best look of.

Speaker 1 (01:32:54):
A cutie that can go like this, Oh my god.
Of course he was on of course, there's a photo
of him with Rogan. This guy was on Rogan Doubt Yeah,
fuck of course and with Joey Diaz. Okay, let's we've
got fun guests, so stay where you are. Our guest

(01:33:24):
today is an actress who you may recognize as a
series regular on shows like Justified, The Good Fight, and
love Craft Country, but you know her today as the
terrified mother of baby Juan Lynn Hauser. Please enjoy our
chat with the very lovely Erica Tazzle. Epic starts to
an episode one of the more memorable like cold opens

(01:33:47):
we've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (01:33:48):
It was this like your very first.

Speaker 3 (01:33:53):
I was I was trying to remember if it was
my first.

Speaker 1 (01:33:57):
Well, your first IMDb is Sex and the City. I
was very exciting.

Speaker 3 (01:34:02):
It was I was like, I think Sex in the
City or Guiding Light or something was the first one.
But this was like my first like full once not
bobal cry drama. So that was very exciting to have. Yeah,
the good first early impression of what a TV set is,
and it couldn't have been a better opportunity. Mushka Hargate

(01:34:24):
is still in the top three people that I've had
the opportunity of working with, and her her whole demeanor
and persona on set have influenced why I'm on set,
especially to our guest stars. She was very generous and

(01:34:44):
protective of the process and also had fun and acknowledged
you know, I remember and that the scene with when
we're talking about they were in the hospital, which was
a big, you know, dramatic day for me, and she
had an awareness, Hey, guys, we know each other, we've
been here. Let's you know, let's respect Erica. And I

(01:35:06):
was like, listen, I have found a corner and a hole.
I'm good. But the fact that she, you know, had
that moment of maybe we're not giving her space, So
it's it's nice to have that, and it's something that
I've always extended when possible, you know, in my serious
regular opportunities and we sort of forget that we're at home,

(01:35:29):
but someone else's you know, coming to play with us.
So yeah, yeah, Marishka, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:36):
I have to know. Was the baby a doll or real?

Speaker 3 (01:35:42):
So there was a doll when I was running out
of the house, but it was it was weighted, you know,
because we just sort of forget about that. And yes,
that close up was one half of twins and he
was the one that was asleep at the moment, and
so he got he got swat.

Speaker 1 (01:36:00):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm like, I know it's a TV show,
but like when they're like Juwan passed away, I was like, no,
have to do that. They didn't have to kill They
did it.

Speaker 3 (01:36:12):
And I couldn't remember what happened. So I had it
on and I think I'd gone to brush my teeth
and someone came in and said that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:19):
I was like, she died.

Speaker 3 (01:36:20):
I couldn't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:36:21):
Yeah, the outcome, well, I was like.

Speaker 2 (01:36:23):
They could have just like had him come out of
it and be a close call. It's still liquid cocaine exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:36:31):
But even on that day we were shooting in Brooklyn
the theater. The theater kid in me, this what I
call a happy accident happened. Came out and you know,
screaming and it's echoing on all of the you know,
brown stones, and I see something out of in the distance,
out of the corner of my eye, and I was like,

(01:36:52):
there's someone running this way and it was a woman.
She was full on spreading and she was like this
woman needs to let's help this baby. And so she's
like and she ran into the scene and she's like,
come with. I mean, I don't know, she didn't see
this steady cam. She just was like, full on, I
am here to save the day. She's like, there's a hospitale.

(01:37:13):
So I kept going, that's the theater at me and
it was and we I just improveed with her and
I was like, where are we going? And then they
cut and I was like ah, And so I was
like that was great, and they were like, yeah, we
can't use it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:29):
I was like why not?

Speaker 3 (01:37:31):
But you know, I didn't know how it worked. She
wasn't hired, she didn't have paperwork, you know. But it was.

Speaker 1 (01:37:37):
She reacts when she realized she was so laser focused.

Speaker 3 (01:37:42):
She was so embarrassed and she laughed at herself and
I gave her a hug and she was like okay,
and you know, she went on her merry way. But hey,
I mean she full on.

Speaker 1 (01:37:54):
At least now she knows she has a hero spirit.
You know. Yeah, it was she jumped into action.

Speaker 3 (01:38:00):
It was great. It was a great accident of a
very long day.

Speaker 1 (01:38:04):
So yeah, do you remember there any like big lessons
you learned on that or any of your early sets
outside of like being great to guest stars, but anything
that you remember that really changed your perspective on stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:38:20):
I came out of drama school at a time that
we didn't have a lot of on camera training. I mean,
we had a class the great Joanna Merlin who just
passed away, who was our career teacher, and she she
always says, you know, the only thing that you can
control is your preparation. That's you know, in auditioning and

(01:38:41):
also showing up to work, right, And what drama school
taught me was, you know, do your homework at home
so you can go to work and play. And it
was definitely a set that was that because I also
have horrible stage right, I'm fine once I get like

(01:39:04):
the first word out or whatever we do the first
rounds of coverage, and so for me, that's been something
that's been very useful and continues to be that still
get terrified and nervous even you know, sitting down here, like,
oh god, it's I'm going to do a podcast, you know,
and I'm okay now, but beating a little fast. But yeah,

(01:39:29):
you know, to just respect, you know, preparation is respecting
other people's time as well. And even when you're not
being covered, I always want to be a rat see
partner and give people. Some people sort of pull back
and not give you what you need to save it
for their coverage. But I'm like, forget that. What can
I learn involve a camera is on that person, you know,

(01:39:51):
especially if I'm being covered after to still continue to
use being on set an opportunity to still discover something new,
deeper circumstances. And again that was from watching Marishka. That's
been from watching you know, my wonderful classmates in grad school.

(01:40:12):
Even more new we shared a dressing room. Shakespeare in
the Park was my first job. Wow, just watching her work,
watching her in rehearsal with Michael Stoulbarg who knew you know,
I knew, but you know, the wonderful great Michael Stoudebart.
Just what it means to play? I mean it is

(01:40:33):
my mentor says, what we do is child's play. It's
make and believe, you know, and it should be fun.
When it's not, I remind myself. It's just child's play.
I get paid to come to work and play. Yeah.
So yeah, I don't know if I answered the question.

Speaker 1 (01:40:53):
You did and lovely, and I wrote I like the
preparation and we love Joanna Merlin. So this was like
really like a treat to hear some insight from it. Yeah,
did you move to la for Justified?

Speaker 3 (01:41:09):
No? I was thinking about that today. I'm so dramatic.
So when I came out of school, there was a
cycle of work for me. I was just I was
very lucky, and I it was just booking, you know,
play here, play there, whatever TV was there at the time,

(01:41:32):
whatever version of Law and Order was there, whatever pilot
that came through and had a couple of episodes before
it got canceled. And I remember getting an appointment for
something I don't remember why it was, and I was
kind of like, oh, I got this, and I kind

(01:41:52):
of stepped and looked at myself like, oh, you're feeling yourself.
You're getting a little cocky, you know, because again I
was very for to get a job. I got an
agent and I had Oftens full representation, and so being extreme,
I was like, oh, you need to you need to
take yourself out of your comfort zone, and so what

(01:42:15):
does that mean? And then so the other voice was like,
you need to move, you need to We're just you're
taking all of this for granted, you don't. This is
how people need become. The world that's warm, cell phones
at people, you're taking You're starting to feel yourself or
is it as they would say, My family would says,
smelling yourself? So I thought, well, where can I go?

(01:42:37):
There's Chicago the Theater. There's theater there, but I was
like that cold does not interest me at all. And
then there was California. It's like, I don't know anybody
in Los Angeles, but I didn't know anybody in New York.
I didn't know anybody in Atlanta, where I went to undergrad.
And so I said, okay, you're going to move to

(01:42:58):
LA And so I thought it about it for a year.
And my best friend lived here at the time and
she was considering a move to New York and say, hey,
I'm thinking about this. Maybe we can just do an
apartment slot. I'm going to revisit this in six months
to make sure I'm not being completely irrational and stupid
and really get clear on why I want to go.

(01:43:21):
And the creative piece of that is I also wanted to,
like Angeno, like Marianne, be able to say that I
can do all three. Be I can I can do
well in terms of performance wise in each of the
medium's TV, film, and theater. And at that time New

(01:43:43):
York was predominantly theater. Now you can do all three there,
And I'm like kicking myself. You know, it's all these
great independent films and plays obviously all in off Quadlai,
and all of the nice regional theaters that cast out
of there. The TV work that there's that's there too.
So to answer your question, I came to shake myself

(01:44:06):
up a little bit so that I'm never taking anything
for granted, especially the good things, and to hopefully and
with hopes of sort of cracking the TV and film
not to figure out what that was, because I would
be learning back completely on the job.

Speaker 1 (01:44:24):
Then it worked. It wasn't a bad decision.

Speaker 3 (01:44:28):
Yeah, sometimes I'm like, what was it?

Speaker 1 (01:44:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:44:33):
LA is interesting? You know New York is what you
what you see is what you get from the city,
from the people LA, and from the South where I'm from,
what you see is really what you get. LA let
you see may or may not be what you're getting.
You may know what I mean by that. So it's
a different kind it's a different kind of slick. And

(01:44:54):
so that was I'm still, I feel like, in many ways,
still adjusting to that. But I don't mind the sunshine,
I don't mind the palm leaves. I'm twenty minutes from
some water, those things like that.

Speaker 1 (01:45:09):
So, yeah, do you do theater out in la I
did a show and December what is this?

Speaker 3 (01:45:18):
Twenty five? The end of to twenty three a play
called Lines in the Dust, which was written by a
woman named Nicole Salter, and it dealt with residency fraud
in schools where parents oh lie about their addresses to
get their school. And so it was a three person play,

(01:45:40):
two women and a man, an investigator of principal and
then the mom of who has a daughter in this
private school and it's out in Jersey. That takes me
from Jersey down the street from New York. And an
incident happens at the school where they bring in with
a kid who did not live when they found out

(01:46:02):
you didn't actually live in the district, and so they
were like, how many kids are do how many so
they opened up an investigation. I'm my kid is one
of them. So the brilliant and scary and insane thing
that we were asked before we decided to do this
is that the women were we had. We did both roles, okay,

(01:46:26):
and I don't know if you remember if you were
in New York. It had to be between two thousand
and two thousand and four. Philip Seymour Hoffman and John
c Riley did production of Through West to Sam Shepherd
play Yeah, where they switched roles, and that was two

(01:46:48):
men and a woman. And so in the spirit of that,
I said, well, I just said two weeks ago. I
haven't been scared in a really long time. I haven't
been like teetering on failure or feeling like there's no
way I can do this. But I'm going to go
for it. And you know, be careful what you ask for.

(01:47:09):
And so say, I remember speaking with the director. I said,
you know, and Noah's asked me to do that before
I'm going to say, I'm going to say yes. And
so they were in the process of finding another person
and the woman that they got they they'd been wanting her,
but she was busy and she was in timing just
worked out, and so that was a marathon. That was

(01:47:33):
a marathon, And yeah, I definitely woke failure straight in
the face. And one of the roles I was ready
to go on forth with the one that I was
supposed to start with. I was not ready. And that
was the principle she was. They both were. They both
had their own challenges, and in the spirit of grad school,

(01:47:55):
I was like, Okay, well I'm just going to figure
it out in front of people. You know, I'll pick
up where because you're going to always be learning about
it anyways for the next four weeks and there'll be
things that you discover still hopefully, but.

Speaker 1 (01:48:10):
That was That's one where I will.

Speaker 3 (01:48:13):
Look back and still sort of pat my back myself
on the back in terms of getting through that and
being really proud of that work and proud of workings
the Legionate and all of the people who were involved
with that. It's a great time. It was scary.

Speaker 1 (01:48:32):
Yeah, that is scary. Oh my gosh. So when you
get a project like that and you have to do
so much preparation, so much more probably so much memorizing,
how do you balance other parts of your life with
that kind of like pressure and you know, time commitment.

Speaker 3 (01:48:49):
Honestly, with that play, I did not have any balance whatsoever,
because I mean there, I think there's you have to
put it down half a of your life, you know
that the time for things to come in. Somehow. I
always feel like whatever story I'm working on, it sort
of shows up in the world, Like there's a charter

(01:49:10):
school that I know I've driven by, but I didn't
see that charter school until I was working on display,
and it was like Cassi school Benear the whole time.
Like for my billboards, regarding the issue, it just sort
of shows up or commercials or songs or you know,

(01:49:33):
articles and pay I don't know, to be magic, I
don't know, but it ends up coming up. But in
this one, it felt like we had a lot of time,
and then we didn't have a lot of time. And
if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't.
I would probably not come home and work as much
as I did. I was not sleeping, I wasn't eating properly.

(01:49:58):
It was one of the roles whichever what it was
was consuming. But to do both and figure me out, Okay,
what are we hurt? What are we rehearsing tomorrow, because
there was this point where if I was saying I
was Beverly, it was the principal, and Kelly was working
on Demitra. I would My thought was, I will watch,

(01:50:21):
you know, watch scenes, but you couldn't. You can't. They
both couldn't be in the room together. So today you're
Beverly Erica and Demetra will take care of yourself and
vice versa. So to answer your question, in that case,
there was no balance. It sort of recalibrated once we
opened and got on our feet. But I do think

(01:50:43):
you you have to sort of give it a rest.
And so that you can rest is that the body
is armored, it's it's it's we're the computer, we are
the instrument. And if it's not hydrated, if it's not
both fed, if it's not rested, it will not work.

Speaker 4 (01:51:03):
Yeah, it WI was shut down. So in general I
have that balance, but with that one, it it got
a little tipped. It got a little tipped.

Speaker 1 (01:51:14):
So and I guess with a different type of thing, justified,
how many years were you on that?

Speaker 3 (01:51:21):
Six years?

Speaker 1 (01:51:22):
So how is it playing the same character for that long?

Speaker 3 (01:51:26):
Just it was it was something that I wanted because
again learning TV, you know on a set versus you
know in a classroom or class where you know, I
was getting guest stars and I would learn something, but
it maybe six months later before the next one came
and I forgot what I learned, sort of sort of

(01:51:47):
how building blocks. So I always wanted a series in
that regard so that I could put those things together
quicker and then that it so that it became a
part of its like process and must of memory. And
so what was great about Justified. It was my first
pilot and I went to series and it they had

(01:52:11):
to buy the grace of God because you know, Tim
had these cute little three buildings at home. Insisted that we,
if it did get picked up, that we shoot in
la We shot the pilot in Pittsburgh. Well, we were
based in Pittsburgh and these little small towns outside of
that that really did look like the green in the
mountains of Kentucky that Santa Kalita out here, just not

(01:52:33):
all far. But so it was nice to also be
be home and have a job and still have my life,
you know, my conversations with my male person, you know,
my gym and yoga classes, my farmers at the farmers
market without having to pack up and be, you know,

(01:52:56):
in another city. So that was great because I I
felt like I got the best of all of it.
That I had my life, my volunteerism, my church, my girlfriends,
my home boys, and I had my work and I
had my work. Yeah, so it was the best of
all of the worlds. And I couldn't have asked for
a better first time out. I learned a lot on

(01:53:21):
that show, a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:53:24):
Is there anything coming out soon or you'd love to
tell our listeners to.

Speaker 3 (01:53:29):
Check out you know what, I don't have anything, Okay.
The strike, the triple strikes, really did shift the stratosphere.

Speaker 1 (01:53:43):
And that was also post COVID. We were just talking
to another guest. It was like, yeah, from COVID shutting
so much of our work done down and then the
strikes back to back was definitely a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:53:55):
Yeah, because I felt like I had I started to
sort of bounce back in twenty one. I had a
great twenty two all the way up through like December
of twenty two. I did my first feature film, I
had two of the Curse. I did a small film
and I was like, all right, we're getting back and
then that we sort of started to feel best slowed

(01:54:17):
down in January. There's typically some sort of islight season, right,
and there there were things. Two of those shows are
on TV right now.

Speaker 1 (01:54:31):
Close. But yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (01:54:36):
I am revisiting Spanish for example, like what can you
be doing in this time? So I am picking that
back up and then as on is my way into
some Italian and cool you know these things that I have, yeah,
and things that I just haven't done while living here
in La It's like there's so having for as long

(01:54:59):
as I've been here, feel like there's so much about
the city that I don't know and I haven't experienced.
And so there's that too, because that's homework and that's stimulus.
All of it goes into my humanity and and my
work as an actor and as a friend and the wife,
as an auntie, as a pet parent. You know, it's

(01:55:22):
it all, It all is important and matter. So sort
of recalibrating my mind that what is useful? What can
I focus on? How can I still be learning so
and be ready when you know, the next opportunity comes.
I'm thankful that I'm a lost acationing for and that

(01:55:44):
there are opportunities, but you know, we'll see, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:55:49):
Yeah, I'm sure there's big things to come. This was
so great. Thank you for taking the time to talk
to us.

Speaker 3 (01:55:57):
I love that you're doing this. When I when I
saw su suus like glad, it's yes, I have to.

Speaker 1 (01:56:05):
I have to. And it's really incredible. Like I would say, unprompted,
even the ninety five percent of our guests spring up
how great Marishka was, and so it really is. It
never gets old.

Speaker 3 (01:56:18):
Yeah, she is. She is a gem and I actually
want to do another because I think I'm well past
the time you gotta come back, and I would get
anything to work with her again.

Speaker 1 (01:56:33):
Yeah, some of them now I saw that.

Speaker 3 (01:56:38):
Yeah, and just have my adult self.

Speaker 1 (01:56:40):
Got to get you back across Jonathan Strauss's desk. You're
a different person. You were like a baby that last
one baby.

Speaker 3 (01:56:49):
So myself looks like, oh my god, it's a baby, Erica.
It's a good memory.

Speaker 1 (01:56:59):
This episode. Twisty twisty baby.

Speaker 2 (01:57:02):
I mean really, just like you think it's just going
to be about this baby, and then it's just a
full fucking you know, uncovering of police corruption, which you
know they followed very closely to the letter of real life.

Speaker 1 (01:57:18):
I'd like to think it's better now, but I don't
know if it is. No, it's worse now for sure, Yeah, yeah, sure.

Speaker 2 (01:57:25):
I mean I don't know if there's as much like
I think that there definitely is. There are cops that
act badly and hurt people and then that gets covered up.
I don't know if there's as much funneling drug like
you know, like cops actually in the pockets of drug
dealers and like working with Do you think there is?

Speaker 1 (01:57:44):
I mean I don't know, how would I know, But
like I don't know, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:57:48):
I feel like there's police officers are covering up for
each other's bullshit. But I don't know if there's as
much like fully embedded in the criminal underworld and profiting
from them.

Speaker 1 (01:57:57):
Well, because don't they have like something immunity now that
they could do whatever they want? I mean, the president
has that. I don't know if cops do. No, it's
like a thing, it's called something qualified immunity, as protected
law enforcement officers and other government officials for being held
accountable when they violate people's constitutional rights, and so it's
like they can do whatever they want. But this is civil.

(01:58:20):
It looks like what do you mean, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:58:24):
It looks like it protects them from being sued, but
it doesn't protect them from going to jail and being prosecuted.
Like but I mean, it's still it's still you know
actually you know, we had a lawyer right us, and
I will find the exact message. But it was really
interesting because she was like, you know, you should let

(01:58:44):
your I love how you guys talk about how you know,
going out, Like why didn't you go to the cops?

Speaker 1 (01:58:51):
Why didn't you do this?

Speaker 2 (01:58:52):
Like getting justice for a rapist is like very difficult,
But she was saying that there's a lot of ways
civilly that you can go after people like your attackers
in a way that can sometimes, she said, be even
more meaningful for victims, like you don't go through such
like a public try. It's like the burden of proof

(01:59:13):
is a little easier, and you can sue them for money,
which a lot of times can help victims in terms
of getting therapy and getting like you know, if they've
lost their job or they've lost you know, tons of
financial resources through what happened.

Speaker 1 (01:59:29):
You know, me see if I can find it, because
it was really interesting. I mean good, I mean, any
better way that we could fucking get rapists? Yeah, fantastic, Yeah, yeah,
for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:59:43):
I don't know what the post mortem takeaways are for
the episode to risk, Well, basically, don't borrow any formula
from your rich fucking friends or employers because they are
possibly smuggling drugs and don't even have a child.

Speaker 1 (01:59:58):
Well, my thing too is thank god that it was
like the SVW detectives and that they wanted to continue
an investigation, because I think in the real world, like
Lynn would have been arrested for murdering her baby immediately. Yeah,
I don't think there wouldn't have been any sort of
I think she would have been arrested, hauled off and
never been seen again. Like That's That's kind of what

(02:00:20):
I was thinking throughout this episode. I'm like, thank god
it was Benson and Stabler, Like if it was anyone else,
I don't think it would have been investigated so thoroughly,
and you know, with IAB and all of that. But
you know what else I loved about this episode, I'd say,
is Cragan Craigan really swearing, having a lot to say,

(02:00:42):
really getting it out there. I really like him and
in the streets, getting involved, fighting, beating IAB.

Speaker 2 (02:00:48):
But I thought, I think it's like interesting the journey
that IAB has followed over the course of this show,
and does it does it mirror what was happening in
real life, Like because i AB back in the Michael
down time was doing absolutely nothing and so but then

(02:01:09):
obviously by the end we're like, not by the end,
but by the time we're like in Tucker Love Territory,
We're like, oh, yeah, we need Tucker. We need people
to check these fucking cops, you know. But again a
fantasy world where somebody does check cops. It's so Cocaine's
not cool, like get a live.

Speaker 1 (02:01:29):
I just don't. I don't get the chase. The chase.

Speaker 2 (02:01:33):
I literally have been talking about cocaine so much like
the last two days, Like people just keep bringing up cocaine,
and I keep being like, if cocaine made me feel great,
I bet I would have done I would would do
it still, but it all it does is keep me awake.
It's to me, it's like you're just awake at eight
am talking to some dumbass about something he doesn't know

(02:01:53):
anything about.

Speaker 1 (02:01:54):
Like that's all cocaine does. And I like, I'm like,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:01:59):
If cocaine had the same effect for me as like Molly,
for example, I'd be a lot more inclined. You know,
it just doesn't do anything for me.

Speaker 1 (02:02:06):
I don't get the buzz. No oh, and to go
back to my London mote. This is another thing, like
not to insult anyone's culture, but like Jews definitely know
how to do a funeral better. Like where is the food? Yea,
the Brits did not eat at all. I had to
go get my own foot there was. They're not eating,

(02:02:27):
they're not drinking water, they are drinking from uh. I
had to for I would say fifteen hours straight. People
were drinking with not a bit of food and not
a drop of water. I was the only one hydrating
and ordering food. No one else. And then guess who
I was sitting eating with the other jew? Yeah, it

(02:02:48):
was just us Jews. And I kept looking at her
being like why is no one eating? What is going on?
And then we realized it's because we were Jewish. Yeah, yeah,
no one no, It's like I don't And then I
kept ordering apps for everybody because everyone's drinking for so long,
no one touched any of it. No one wanted any

(02:03:08):
of it.

Speaker 2 (02:03:10):
It's like yeah, yeah, I mean sometimes grief makes people
lose their appetite, but it's like you're.

Speaker 1 (02:03:15):
Also gonna throw up, like you have to like put
some food in your stomach, you know. I don't know.
The sitting shiva just makes sense. Yeah, you get a week,
you don't have to do anything. Never not put away
and never not full. Yeah, it's just like not the
same and hopefully Yeah. I don't know if it's all

(02:03:38):
Christians or just like I.

Speaker 2 (02:03:39):
Really okay ask you because I was like, oh, what's
the vibe. I've never been to a British ceremony, so
I was just wondering if it was, well, this was wrunk,
drunk drunk. It was like people started leaving.

Speaker 1 (02:03:51):
It was people were drunk, but the service was not
traditional in any way, I would say, And we all
wore dollful clothes and stuff like that. I think the
idea of all black is kind of outdated. I think
most people like to do celebrations of life now versus
like memorial. I like memorial and so I like I

(02:04:13):
kind of I like that, and I understand the black
and if that's comfortable, but it was nice people wearing
what they should wear or wanted to wear, or what
he would wear. Yeah, because the last funeral I went to,
like last year, a year and a half. I don't know,
time flies, but people just wore what they wanted as well,
I think. Yeah, but from clothes to cut. What I

(02:04:36):
also learned is funeral start on time. Yeah, TikTok, and
it starts sorry, funeral recap at the end this. Yeah,
don't your drugs. Don't be a bad cop. I hope
your babies stay alive. Don't use your fucking power.

Speaker 2 (02:04:55):
Yeah, and fuck yeah, that's I guess it's I guess
it's okay that they're swabbing my breast milk at the
airport to make sure that I'm not smuggling cocaine.

Speaker 1 (02:05:06):
Oh my god. So like I whatever, I had my
own designated security because I was flying nicely and it
was virgin I don't know whatever, So like, hmmm, it
was just me and this elderly couple. Of course I
let them go first. They would not leave this woman alone.
This bitch had to like get pulled out of her wheelchair.
She's so old and hunched over the hump on her back.

(02:05:28):
Huge right, like this woman is at least in her nineties,
like so old, could barely get out of this wheelchair,
and then they have to put her in the thing,
you know, the scanner thing, and then they it took
five or six times, like they would.

Speaker 3 (02:05:41):
Just let her go.

Speaker 1 (02:05:43):
It's not her her foot wasn't directly on the thing,
so they kept having to push her foot over, and
she can't hear anything, she can't move her legs. She's
in her goddamn nine am. And I was standing there
and it probably looks like I was impatient with the elderly.
I was impatient with the staff where I was like,
let her go, and then they wouldn't let her sit
back in her wheelchair because it was it had to

(02:06:04):
still get scammed through. And I'm like, you guys are losers.
You're losers, true losers. They're like, now, please spread your
arm higher, and it's like she can't. She's barely being
all together. She had bandages all over her wrists, like
this was just a really dilapidated woman. They wouldn't they

(02:06:25):
her SKIS security screening I would take, say it took
like fifteen minutes. They would not. They would not easy.
I just sing.

Speaker 2 (02:06:32):
But if you're a drug dealer, how smart you just
get an old lady in there? You just fill her
up with little baggies of heroine and you send her through.

Speaker 1 (02:06:41):
I guess I'm obviously having so much like internal stress
right now. Of like, did we talk too much about
the met gallo with no content? Do we just raise names?
Just lists of movies? This whole episode is just like lists.

Speaker 2 (02:06:54):
Listen, I think everyone knows what this is by now.
But let's let's get into our what would Sister Peg Do?
For this week's what would Mister Peg Do? Which is
our weekly segment where we direct you towards more information
about what we talked about in today's EP. I wanted
to point you to the documentary that I mentioned. It's
a twenty fourteen documentary called The seven to five. This

(02:07:16):
is a doc all about the crimes of Michael Daoud,
a corrupt NYPD officer who was once labeled the dirtiest
cop ever. He is featured in the movie as well
as the cops that tried to take him down, and
the title refers to the seventy fifth Precinct of the
NYPD during the nineteen eighties, which was one of the
most corrupt precincts pretty much ever. So I think it's

(02:07:38):
interesting to watch something like this, especially now, and just
see how corruption can kind of blossom in a department.
And yeah, it will post the link. It's available on
like Apple, it might be on Amazon, on Netflix, it
might be available in your country. It's not available in
the US right now. If you live outside the US,
good for you, and you might have access to this doc.

(02:07:59):
But we'll have a link to this in the story
that goes out the day this episode airs, and then
it will always be saved in our WWSPD highlights on
our Instagram page, which is that s messed Up pod.
And if you don't follow us on Instagram, you are
missing out on the fully exhaustive list of all the
Tommies that our Tommy correspondent Christina put together.

Speaker 1 (02:08:22):
Shout out to her.

Speaker 2 (02:08:23):
She put together a full list, multiple pages, of every
single Tommy from the SVUW universe, and honestly, the only
thing shocking is that there hasn't been a Tommy in
seasons twenty three, twenty four to twenty five, or currently
in twenty six, except I guess for McGrath you could
count he's in a bunch of those seasons, so I
guess you could say every season has a Tommy except
for five. So go to our instagram for more little

(02:08:46):
gems like that.

Speaker 1 (02:08:47):
Oh god, you know, it was like talking to someone
about the documentary I watched with the Submarine, the Submarine Murder,
you know, and they're like, oh, is this for your podcast?
I go no, it was just a pleasure to watch.
It was free watch. Yeah, Oh god, just keeping up

(02:09:08):
on all the horrors, on all the horrors. We appreciate
all of you obviously for listening, and I love meeting
you guys when you know we're all on the road
and everything. And next week we'll have another episode Pandora
season four, episode fifteen, So come on down, get ready
for Prague Bitches.

Speaker 2 (02:09:29):
Back to back season four EPs, get into it. Thank
you guys so much for listening. We'll see you next week.

Speaker 1 (02:09:42):
That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

Speaker 2 (02:09:45):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
it That's messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts, follow.

Speaker 1 (02:09:58):
The podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod, and
follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.

Speaker 2 (02:10:05):
As always, please see our show notes for sources and
more information.

Speaker 1 (02:10:09):
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our.

Speaker 2 (02:10:15):
Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and.

Speaker 1 (02:10:19):
To Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly Geen
Andrews for our artwork.

Speaker 2 (02:10:23):
Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff,
Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

Speaker 1 (02:10:30):
Dun dun

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Episode Transcript

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Kara Klenk

Liza Treyger

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