Spellbound w/ Kristen Hager

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Done done.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yay, that's messed up an sv podcast. We're coming to
you with another episode. I'm Lisa and I'm Kara, and yeah,
every week another one. We never stop. We never stop,
and I think some people sometimes stop, but we do not.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
We really never have taken a break. And I hope
all of you notice that these Chris re releases ever one,
never have we done a re release.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
We get it fucking done.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
It's so funny because we pre quartered last interview like
our last intro though, and everyone today is like, hope
you're recovering from Saint Patrick's to day, and it was
like I was in bed by eleven. We know Saint
Patrick's in my heart and mine. I agreed to like
do a sketch for for I don't know, it's just yeah.
I had a lot of spots this weekend, so I

(01:19):
was walking around a lot and people were out and
I felt jealous.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
I was there. My husband was in Chicago this past weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
I was like, oh my god, Chicago on Saint Patrick's
Day weekend.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
I mean, I misbehaved so bad one of the parades
got canceled for years. I mean it's yeah, I almost
got arrested by Secret Service because I did charge at
Rod Blogoyevitch.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
And this is pre arrests.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
And I'm sure I've brought this up before, but I knew,
I know a scumbag.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
You charged at it. I don't think i've ever heard
this book. I was fucking blacked out as all hell.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
I should find the photos because I'm like so blonde,
so drunk, and my friend and I just saw his
ass in the parade and I just started going at
him and then like you know, people in suits started
coming at me, and then we ran away and then
we went ice skating, so which I can't believe. I think, God,
we didn't fall break our faces. I mean, what like,

(02:20):
blacked out as fuck ice skating and charging at you know,
the governor. But you know he's been pardoned, but he
is a piece of shit, like every politician, every I
honestly death to them all.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
JK.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
This is our postwatch what Happens live intro. That is true,
But and I was supposed to go to Luigi's trial
tomorrow postponed another thirty days. Oh my god, without an
indictment being held. But yeah, so I was gonna go
to court tomorrow.

Speaker 4 (02:51):
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
It's gonna be April nineteenth. And that also ends like
that's gonna be the limit to like his right for
a speedy trial.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
All that.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
I actually wrote an email to care and the lawyer
through the White site, so if I get more info,
I'll update everybody. But I'm just because I watched all
this stuff and I read some of the things this
morning before soul cycle. I'm a busy girl. Oh my god,
my best friend accused me.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
She goes, She goes, I I'm into this Luigi stuff
better than when you were obsessed the gypsy Rose Blanchard.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
I go, that has never happened. I go.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
I was interested because that is a big thing, but
I go, there was never an inkling that that was
going to be an obsession and follow And we got
into kind of like an argument yesterday because I was like,
you're I can just.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Back up the that I don't remember that being a
thing of yours. No, obviously we were interested, we were
chatting I'm glad she's free.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
Am I following her every step?

Speaker 1 (03:41):
No? It makes me oh, the Luigi of it all
is not even You've barely given Gypsy a wink compared
to the list.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
Thank you. She didn't believe me, and I go no.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Internally, I'm telling you I never felt the same way.
But also with what's happening at Colombia and all these
people getting deported, it's like too much to think about.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
So yeah, I'm doing this and.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Anyways, Yeah, so Pennsylvania, basically there's all these motions to
throw all these the rest away and all this evidence.
So that's a separate thing. That's a separate lawyer. And
then this federal case. So my thing is like is
it because because if the federal government had enough evidence
in a case, why wouldn't they just indict him?

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Right?

Speaker 2 (04:19):
So it's like do they not have a case? And
this is better? Is this also good for her because
she can build a case? Are they trying to work
on a plea right now? Is this unfair? Is like
what is actually going on? But after the indictment, it
has to be a max of seventy days to get
to trial, Like I am just like trying to do
comedy and be a fun girl. But anyway, so I'll

(04:39):
keep you posted if Karen responds to me, I also,
I did you know I dropped the pod. I was like, listen,
I have been, you know, spouting about you on a
lot of stuff.

Speaker 4 (04:49):
Yeah, but I can always stop, I go. If you'd
like me to stop, I'll stop.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
But if you have any thing, because in my head,
I'm like, I guess it gives her more time to
like work on this case and get the death penalty
off the table, and like and is it good?

Speaker 4 (05:02):
Do they not have a case?

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Like what does them holding him without an indictment and
keep asking for excessions me?

Speaker 1 (05:07):
And you know, I'm curious where would he get the
death penalty in New York? I thought the name in
New York, it's federal. It's the federal. They're like, the
federal government is because this is the thing. The defense
is complying with all of this and agreeing to it.
So like I read one of the documents and it's
like the defense says yes, but the last the last
court date where I read the transcription, she was like, yeah,

(05:29):
we're agreeing to it because the death penalty is being
loomed over our head, like, yeah, we're not gonna fight,
like we have to comply. There's a man's life is
on the line, right So but yeah, it's like federal.
But I don't think they have an actual case because
they keep asking for these extensions.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
So I don't know. I don't know. I do think that,
like I think it's like a frame job. I think
they couldn't find someone they had to or it was
like a professional type pit And I think they like
got the wrong pansy. I think they are if they
got the wrong patsy.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
If you're gonna frame somebody, you can't pick a guy
that hot, you you cannot Next time, guys.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
You gonna not only hot.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
We have ivy League valedictorian of like private high school,
so we have sexy, we have brains, we have wealth,
and we and he seems zen.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
I don't know. I I don't know. Yeah. I had
to tell Ralph Lauren on that first day. Wait, can
we also talk about no if unless is Luigi? Watch
are we concluded? I don't want to cut you off, Like, okay,

(06:39):
So we've been getting tons and tons of this video
of what looks like the.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
FBI girl it is we someone better fucking d m us.
There is no way. There is no way.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
So we got this video of what looks like the
FBI going into a New York City art gallery and
taking a stolen Rembrandt painting that it like is believed
to be part of the Isabella Stuart Gardner heist, which
we just did last week on the podcast Wait Happened?

Speaker 4 (07:14):
Message fucking Lare.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Here's the deal it was. It's a marketing ploint, of
course it.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Is, because in my head, what what I was seeing
and that's what I wanted to confirm with our friend
was like that that wouldn't be in a Chelsea art gallery,
is what I kept saying online where it's like this
is a Rebrandt would not be hanging out in Chelsea?
Is Yes, I was what I saw, you know, briefly
on the internet.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
So yeah, and then so who was in a publicity
stunt for? Because the FBI doesn't real but fuck you?
How dare you do this so close to us?

Speaker 4 (07:46):
I know?

Speaker 1 (07:47):
And like the whole thing is that when people when
somebody was like yeah, but somebody message us like yeah,
but why does the guy look the FBI agent look
like Colin Joe's and it's true, like they had they
should have cast somebody older, more hag like this young
fresh faced FBI agent being like, excuse me, he just
seems like an actor. Let's see, it's supposed to be
called any Day Now the movie, but I don't see

(08:12):
it's for a movie. Yeah, yea, oh my god, well
ye boycott. I don't see anything about the movie on
IMDb or anything. There's another movie called any Day Now,
and it's y it's from twenty twelve, so like I
don't really get it. But there's a full article on
Boston Nbcboston dot com that is talking about how this

(08:35):
the director's name is Eric Aaronson.

Speaker 4 (08:38):
In the movie about the Museum, Like what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (08:41):
The film premiere's Monday Night, which I think is like yesterday, right,
let me just look at the date of this. Yeah,
so the film premiered on Saint Patrick's Day Monday at
the Summerville Theater and is loosely based on the nineteen
ninety heist.

Speaker 4 (08:56):
But it's just wild.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
It's like, you have this, it's a it must be
a very indie movie. It doesn't even have an IMDb
and this stunt is like very seems very high. You
know what I've inexpensive, you know what I've learned.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
You know how most movies get made in Hollywood rich parents. Okay, yeah, sorry,
I'm sure someone helped pay for the Indy and he
had money to do this.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
But yeah, because literally, like this is playing at No Shade,
but Summerville just like a small neighborhood of Boston, and
but only that, like bake Heist is in New York,
like you're you're doing across state lines. All the articles
are back up like I'm looking, and it's just like
article or six hours ago, forty four minutes, so twenty

(09:40):
hours ago.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
All of this. We we talked about this weeks ahead.
I'm sorry and I want yeah, and I don't care. Yeah,
that's we totally and no one's asking for our expert opinion.
This is nonsense, the disrespect Again, why am I not
being asked questions?

Speaker 4 (09:57):
I just like, this is a huge stunt for a.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Movie that doesn't have an IMDb page, and like literally
web videos have IMDb pages, commercials have IMDb pages now,
so it's.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
A huge stunt.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Anyway, I did think for three seconds that they possibly
were finding a real part of the Isabella Stewart Gardner
heist and that we had.

Speaker 4 (10:16):
Something to do with it, and I was excited.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Okay, so I apologize. I do have another Luigi thing,
so the one thing that's funny. So I have to
follow these Luigi accounts and I will say they are unhinged,
and I think these people are unwell, but that's my
only way to know that there's new documents or motions
or like stuff happening like so sometimes they so all
of them are like pissed because Law and Order original
Recipe is doing a Luigi based case and they're like,

(10:44):
how is this legal? We need to get this down
what the fuck? And I had to be like, listen, guys,
this is not an orchestrated attack. They've been doing this
for thirty plus years. You're making us look crazy, like
you cannot go after Law and Order like that is.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
They're like, literally, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
I was like, they get away with it because there's
a disclaimer up top, like girl, but it was funny.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
Are you caught up on White Lotus? Yes? I love
Walt Walton, Walton.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Walt Goggins walk body that him listening to Sam Rockwell
talk Fellow Soul cycler.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
I was like obsessed. I'm like, honestly, what a cool
face to make. I loved it.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
And Sam Rock Wellry Bibb your soul cycle.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
He's the Megan Fahe of this season. So much with
a face, so much with a face, it's like heavenly.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
This season is so like scary, Like I feel like
the other two seasons, it's.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
Like you know someone's gonna die.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
I guess like that's the like you you obviously know
a body is going to wash up. But in Hawaii
and Venice, I never felt like, oh, these people are
all in danger. In Thailand, I'm like anybody could be
murdered at any moment for some reason, and like just
like so many sketchy people staying at this hotel, like
the girls.

Speaker 4 (12:05):
Manager go fuck yourself.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
And I heard he played the big Nazian zone of interest,
so you know he's.

Speaker 4 (12:10):
Got a face. Oh my god, that is him. Shit,
I just put that together. Fuck he's good though.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Also I learned that my last Luigi letter was too
long and it will be sent back, so I had
to write this is my fifth attempt too long.

Speaker 4 (12:27):
Oh my god, I didn't know there was a word count.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
I diden either it's three page max Eight eight and
a half by eleven standard sized paper, I'm assuming.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, well yeah, you can't have non standard size. They
sent that back too. Yeah wow, these prisons, these prisons.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
You wrote more than three pages to him?

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Unfortunately I did, because other things kept getting sent back.
Oh it wasn't like I had like this is actually
five letters in one I have a lot to say. Okay,
it was just like all of these because I had
three letters get sent back, so and I know my
fourth one's about to get sent back, so I'm just
like waiting for it, like so annoyed. I'm like, I

(13:06):
don't even care anymore. I mean I do. I'd like
to get I just want to offer my services. Okay,
this is actually like for some reason, I might have
been drunk or just like excited, but someone gave me
this idea and I acted like we've never thought about
this ever in our lives, but clearly we've played this
probably and with these people. But it might just be fun.
Fuck Mary kil Amorrow, Stabler cares God.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
I don't really want to be married to any of them,
to be honest, Oh I do.

Speaker 4 (13:34):
I just don't.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Okay, I'm fucking tomorrow, I'm marrying Caresy and I'm murdering Stabler.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah, unfortunately, I think I'm murdering Careesy and fucking tomorrow
and marrying Stabler. I don't think I'm gonna like it,
but I don't want to be married to Carese either.
I can't like with theh you want to can like?
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (13:55):
I can't.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
I don't think that's for me. He's gonna be like
want bacon for breakfast? Ever, I don't know. I just
it's not I don't think. I just not tracted to Creasy,
but I guess marriage isn't about that. I would rather
argue with Stabler than just be like bored with Creasy.
I think I would be bored with Creasy personally. That's it.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yeah, that's fine, but it's just that's who I'm picking.
I don't want to be married to Stabler. He has
never gone to therapy and he has anger problems like
I'm not yode for that.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
I would hate it. I don't want to be I
don't want to be married to either one of them,
but I'd rather be married to someone that's too nice.
At least we can agree that we're both fucking Amorrow. Yeah, no,
just for the one time, right, that's what buck Mary kill.
It's just a one timer. Yeah, yeah, one time only.
I mean, I guess they can text you back if
maybe I would just be rather be married to Stabler
almost because I feel like sometimes he can be normal,

(14:43):
whereas Tomorrow just is always fucking flying off the handle
like a wacko. So yeah, I don't think I could
be married to him. Yeah, yeah, we're definitely fucking him.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Wait oh and shout out to everyone that came to
Caleb Show Minnesota and I'm actually in Minnesota doing my
own shows this weekend. At Sisyphis Brewing. They have to
get a new name. It's like so uncomfortable to say it, Sisyphis.
Yeah that sounds like a puss disease.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Well, sisphilis does come from the words Sisyphis.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
Yeah, So what is the etymology? Like, why are they
doing that?

Speaker 1 (15:18):
I don't know. Someone's got a fucking boner for Greek
mythology or something. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
I feel like there's probably a nice ven diagram between
Greek mythology and.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Brewing, you know. Yeah, yeah, but I will be there.
But Caleb play is trivia.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Like there's always questions and you have to get a
certain amount right. And I truly knew so much about
Minnesota and people were really impressed with me.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, I mean I've won every time I've played, So
this is my I've played four trivia's on that pod
and I've won every single time.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
And the minute what like, what kind of Minnesota questions?

Speaker 3 (15:49):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (15:50):
I remember them all.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
It asked if like the Gophers were the mascot of
the university basketball team, and I said yes, and it
was true.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
It's all truth false.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Then I'm he asked if it was known as something
about rivers and I'm like, you, dumb bitch, it's ten
thousand lates, oh dari. And then he asked if it
was what the capital was and I knew it Saint
Paul and that's all I'm thinking about right now.

Speaker 4 (16:15):
But he tried to fuck me.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Oh, so, you know, I famously know all the NBA teams,
so he's like, as they're thirty teams and I got
to say false, motherfucker, and he couldn't believe it. And
then he said, are there ten thousand dots on a basketball?
And I said more and he goes, are you sure?
About that, and I go, I am and I was right,
and he tried to fuck me. But I just like
I do know things wildly, and I think I'm a

(16:37):
hero for podtheads everywhere.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Okay, was I believe how much you remember? For smoking Pot?
Like when I spoke pot, I'm like in a full
fugue state. I don't know what's going on, you.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Know, Okay, Well, all right, so I'm gonna do my
watch what Happens Live kind of monologue unless you do
want to say stuff beforehand.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
I don't know anything if I feel there's a place.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
So I also like didn't think it was gonna actually happen,
like until the day before when Andy said and tomorrow
there will be Lisa. I was like, they're gonna take
it away from me, Like there's no way I get
to do this. Like so I was on edge just
like waiting till it was the day. Then of course
I go to soul Cycle with my friend Caitlin, and
there I see Leslie Bib White lotuses Leslie Bib So

(17:23):
she probably thought I was just a deranged fan bothering
her to her workout, but instead I went, hey, girl,
I know you love Bravo I'm on watch what happens tonight.
So then we start talking about West the guests who
I was on with, who I was too nice to,
and you know, it is what it is.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
He ended up being great. I partied with him till
two in the morning.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
I forgot he was a young man and I can't
drink brown liquor. But anyways, I don't know what why
I cannot remember that.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
So then Leslie Bib ended up giving me the best
advice ever, because you do get some of the questions
ahead of time, but there's way more. And so I
mentioned the questions and she goes, I don't even look
at them. It all changes on the fly, like be
in the moment, have fun, like do not care or
prep for anything, And I go, bitch, you just changed
my day. So she also said not to drink.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
Obviously did not listen, Okay, So then like are you kidding? Actually,
when we did the shots, ski Andy goes, WHOA, Okay,
that was real and I was like, yeah, bitch, we're
not doing water here. Actually, on my way to get
my nails done, there's a store that opens at noon
happened to be open at eleven thirty.

Speaker 4 (18:29):
Wildly like I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
I was like, girl, you're open early, and so I
got to go in there by like a Wicked themed notepad.

Speaker 4 (18:37):
So then important important day of show stuff. So then
as I'm.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Walking, I was like, well, I gotta get andy something.
I want to get some you know, I'm gonna go
to my toy stores. But then I run into Sabrina Bryer,
famous from the Internet, and her friend Lucas.

Speaker 4 (18:53):
So then I get to like chit chat.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
You know.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
I love running into people on the streets. So I'm
just like feeling fuck in pumped. You're feeling Jovanni, you Banni,
you know.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
And then the prep for the day is watching Bravo,
so it's like heaven. And then I wanted to catch
up on some summerhouse to get my opinions sorted. West
fucking dms me follows me, sends me a photo he's
watching my special.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
I send him a photo I'm.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Watching him but it's the reunion, but it's the reunion
from last season, and he goes, God, could you just
watch anything but that, Like, are you fucking kidding me?
And I go, no, you scumbag, you know, But already
that's like nice as fuck. So then Candice Hair and
Makeup comes over, A couple of our friends come over.

(19:45):
And then I brought Lane there because Andy Cohen has
looked him up and down in the streets of New
York multiple times, and so I brought him as bait.
So I brought him as just a little bait. But
Andy's too busy. He filmed three shows that day. Oh
my god, three shows. Yeah, so and then I so
we walk in. So then the girls are here. I mean,

(20:06):
we're getting dressed makeup here. They send an escalate. I
love a Cadillac. So then when we get there, Jen
Fessler is sitting on the couch and I'm looking and
I go jen Fessler. West brought Jenfesler. He's not even there.
So she's there. She's so nice. We're chatting with her,
and then it's kind of like drinks, having fun, making

(20:26):
Instagrams photos. Andy says, Hi, we hug in the hallway.
We get to do the promo, and then I find
out I'm in first chair, and that's when, like, I
couldn't even believe it.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
And then I'm the bartender. I couldn't believe whenever I've
seen a stand up on or like somebody who's not
on Bravo, they're usually in the second chair. So I
was surprised one hundred percent because I was like, he's
the Bravo liberty. But I was like, but he's a man,
maybe maybe they'll put But that's just when I was rationalizing.
After never in my life did I think it was

(20:57):
gonna be first chair. I definitely thought second chair. But
West was nice. We do our little promo. I love
that we got to meet Eric, you know, chef Eric.
It was just like, did Andy remember you're from us Bartending.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
I did not bring it up. There is just no time.
He is like really wild, he has on his phone.
But when he introduced me as Liza, he called me
Liza twice.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
I saw.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
I knew he would fix it. He did, and you know,
I went it happened. You know, I should have been like,
you're gay. The gays really have the hardest time with
it because they just know about love Liza. They love
Liza and I, you know, culturally, I don't want to
It's kind of like that's I feel the same way
about Kara. When it's a British person, I'm like, I
love British culture. Go off with Kara. If you're like

(21:41):
another person, you know, but you need to say it
the right way. But if you're British, you know, if
you're gay, you can go Liza. I guess you know.

Speaker 4 (21:47):
Yeah, And if you're hot.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Brett Goldstein the whole podcast called me Lisa and I allowed,
fully allowed it.

Speaker 4 (21:54):
I was like, it must be the accent.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
So and West is taller, and you would think he
just looks short because he's around Carl and Jesse, but
like he is hot.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
He's fucking hot and nice and smart.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
We talked about geopolitical stuff like it was kind of
what we talked about Ukraine.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
It was not on air, not on air, but he
thought that it would.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
He's like, I thought, because of your stuff, like and
they would bring up you.

Speaker 4 (22:19):
I was like, on watch what happened? On Watch? Happened? Dog?

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Come on?

Speaker 2 (22:24):
And then so But once he got my name right,
I mean I also I won the Tic Tacto game.
I won the game the fastest I think in history
anyone has won it. Like I was on fire. I
made Andy lapp oh about the bartending. So in the
beginning when after he introduced me and he said something,
I said, I've been in the audience twice. Bartended once
now I'm here, and then we double high five. But

(22:45):
that was it. And even at the end he did
say drum roll. He goes, you're gonna have to come back. Oh,
so that's pretty huge. And then I pushed my luck
by going, can we just take a photo?

Speaker 4 (22:58):
And he goes, I just can't.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
And I go, oh my god, I'm being too desperate
and he goes, you're not being desperate, but I gotta go.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
But don't they didn't that guy coming.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
That's what Andy said, not just about Andy. Andy goes,
we got enough. He's like, we got enough, So I
got it. It was fine. But then Julia told me
Jen Fessler asked him for a selfie, and she said
that she could tell Andy.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
Was like, okay, like he's just hired. I think he's
like a tired one night. That's fucking crazy. Yeah, And
to do.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
The shot ski, I couldn't believe.

Speaker 4 (23:31):
My parents were really happy.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
I wore a heel and my dad's like, you better
get you swearing heels, and I flipped out, of course
on my family. I go, I go, I got down
there myself. He's like, ooh yeah, my mom such bitches. Wow,
you haven't worn heels in forever, and it's like, yeah,
I don't like them. I did it because I'm already
sitting like that's the only reason I did it, Like
if I had to walk at all, I.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Would not wear a heel. But also go, fuck they're crazy.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
No, they liked it.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
My mom just said, you could tell you were really happy.
Think you were so happy the whole time.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
And I think that's what led to me being a
little too positive about Roasting West. But I do have
to say that I said what I wanted about Paige
and Craig.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
I feel like I let Craig have it, but in quick,
concise way.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
That's the thing.

Speaker 4 (24:12):
The producer everyone really helps.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Everyone was like, it's fast, just give him answers, quick answers,
keep moving. And as a watcher, I hate when people
think too much. I also hate when people have pre
planned bits right, you know, as a fan, I just like,
that's great. So Leslie bib kicked you off on the
right direction just living home. I guess what I'm rambling
to say is Paige DMed me. Wow, So Paige DMed me.

(24:36):
It was a thank you for defending her honor and
it's what I meant, so so nice. Yeah, because people
are giving her shit and at the end of the day,
he wants a trad wife to have his babies in
the South and is annoyed that she has a career
waiting for her to give birth, you know, instead of
making it work for her.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
Like he's just old school.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
He's old school traditional while like gritting his teeth trying
to be supportive. And it's been disgusting to watch, honestly,
the last few weeks of Southern charn and Summerhouse. Yeah,
but anyway, so it was a dream come true taking
the shots, and then we all went to ear In,
which is one of my favorite spots famously. I saw
Dean Winters there and then my friends all left and

(25:24):
I stayed out. I stayed out with the youth till too,
and then I talk about and I've really still had
a pep in my step ever since and just holding
myself back from not posting more and more photos.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
But I don't think Brown Liquor really has anything against
Watch what Happens. Like the buzz of Watch What Happens
kind of like took you over Brown Liquor, you know
what I mean, Like because I didn't puke. I just
had to lay on the floor for like an Ye. Yeah,
I think the endorphins of watch what happened combatd the
brown liquor is what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Oh yeah, and I've also been so cyclicly every like
I've been almost spinning off the bike like I just not.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
Yeah, it's really sustained me.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
So yeah, thanks for everyone support, DNS messages, for watching,
and don't be mad at Andy for calling me Eliza.
It also happened when I met Miley Cyrus. It's truly
my curse, you know.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
I mean, you have a yeah, you have a different
pronunciation of a of a common name. I guess it's
tough stuff.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
But no, I looked at the teleprompter in parentheses it
said Lisa.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
It saw the teleprompter like Liza. Not to throw them
under the bus, you know. I hope this doesn't get
clipped for the internet. No, I don't think anyone's kissing.
But then people obviously were protecting Craig. And then I
had friends and be like, I think Craig has bots
because there's all these people writing crazy shit. Was zero followers,
zero post zero I read yeah, and people were like transfer.

(26:45):
People are like, I bet she has balls, and I'm
like Lady Gaga and like, would that be the worst
thing to transphobic here? I don't think so, Oh my god,
and West, I can't off camera. I could tell you
some scoop that I got from but I you know,
I have to I have to protect the confidence. Yeah, yeah,
I have your new your new best friend. Yeah, of course,

(27:05):
of course we texted the next day. I truly like,
am livid. I'm livid that he was great because in
my head, I know I'm gonna let this work. Even
Leslie Bibb was like, let him have it.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
And then I couldn't. I couldn't. But yeah, dom me.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
If you guys have questions, I feel like I covered
everything and then if not, I'll scream something.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah wait the but then the next day we did interviews,
I had a meeting, and then I had a show,
Like the I just can't really, I don't.

Speaker 4 (27:32):
I should have taken the next day off. I should have.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah, I'm surprised that you didn't. I'm surprised you scheduled
stuff for the next day. I really am. You know what,
we gotta yeah, work night streaming on Netflix everybody get
out there and watch it. If you haven't had a chance,
it doesn't fucking matter.

Speaker 4 (27:51):
Oh wait.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Also like talking about somebody who's kind of an asshole
on the reality show, but then you like them. Carolyn
from Traders has been going on interviews saying she likes
Tom Sandoval, and she's like, I think we all need
to forgive. We all need to like move on with
Tom Sandoval. And I was like, Oh, I wonder how
this is gonna go. She's such a fan, babe.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
She is shooting him, but she's like someone that's really
into sobriety, forgiveness, second chances. Like that's her vibe. Kooky lady.
That's fine, and everyone can forgive whoever the fuck they want.

Speaker 4 (28:22):
I will not. I do not try.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
If you are willing to do this to your life partner,
you're gonna fuck their best friend while you're at your
grandmother's funeral. And the fair started the day your beloved
dog fucking dies, your scum.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
I don't need to forgive you.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
I don't care if that's the You shouldn't have to
be defined by the worst moment of your life. But like,
I don't know you, and I don't need to get
to know you.

Speaker 4 (28:46):
What is this thing? I don't need to forgive shit.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
I actually saw the back of Ariana's boyfriend's head this week.
I went to a soft opening of a restaurant. He's
an investor in. My friend said, I think he's here.
I said, I went to a late night soul cycle.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
It's like out of my mind, and I go, I'll
be there in a half hour.

Speaker 4 (29:05):
And I saw the back of his head.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Amazing. Wow, he's cute. They seem happy. I think, you know,
I think everything happens for a reason. Now she's with
a better guy. He just was such a fucking adult
on the Traders. It was so entertaining to watch, Like
I would watch him on more shows where he thinks
he's so important and he's.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
Such a dumb ass. But anyway, let's get go.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
And I don't know if this was the after show
or on regular on the watch Rappons side, but it's like,
which wife should have a comeback? And I said, Eileen,
and Andy goes on the regular Andy goes. That's the
second person to say it this week. Guess who it was?
Michelle fucking Collins. Oh yep, I and she goes, that's

(29:47):
because we have good taste. Oh look what I'm wearing.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yes, okay, she's wearing her Olivia Benson Era's sweatshirt that
a listener nailed us.

Speaker 4 (29:57):
Okay, Casey is losing his mind. We need to start it.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Look, thank you to the listener who mailed us these Olivia's,
these Olivia Eras sweatshirts. They're gorgeous, and thank you so much.
I don't know if there was a card or not,
and I apologize if there wasn't. I thought I didn't
think there was, but thank you so much for showing
so wearing my bracelet that says thrashing, that's what Oh.
I looked down yesterday and Oscar was like, look at

(30:19):
this beautiful bracelet I found because they play with my
friendship bracelets, and it was the one that says let
Olivia fuck.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
So we're okay.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
He can't read, but you know, pretty soon I'm gonna
have to start censoring these bracelets.

Speaker 4 (30:30):
Let's get started.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
We have a great show today. Okay, we are doing Spellbound.
This is season eighteen, episode eighteen, eighteen eighteen. I had
obviously seen it, but it was like watching it anew
for me because I hadn't seen it in a long time,

(30:52):
so I.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Very much like what's gonna happen? Maybe twice, but it
was fresh for me. And it also like is similar
to some other it is.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
There are other episodes like this A spiritual guy that's yeah,
takes advantage and it's not just a NICEIVU trope. I
think it's you know, it's a life. It's a wild trope. Yeah,
like that happens all the fucking time. Every fucking guru
you hear about has done something creepy. So we open
on a cold night in Manhattan. This couple's walking. He's

(31:26):
trying to pitch like a night on the couch snuggling,
and she's like, babe, we do that all the time.
And she's like, I know you don't get it, but
I need to do this for me. And everyone says
it's amazing. So you're like, what is she doing? But
she kisses him goodbye and gets in the car. He
has like a moment of worry on his face and
that's that and then a very early done done. I
feel like we don't always get like a dunt done
right in the cold open, there's a dunt done not.

Speaker 4 (31:48):
Since like the early seasons.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Now yeah, I mean some of these newer ones, it's
like a full six minute art.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
It's like the girl, Yeah tell New York from Ohai. Yeah,
he gets such a there's a there's like an indie
pop song playing like it's a full Yeah, it's like
a full short film playing at the very beginning in
the cold open. But this is like quick to a
dunt done. And we're at the apartment of Declan Trask
and it's like we already have a Declan on this show,
like we're in we're in the seasons that are right

(32:13):
after Declan Murphy, and I think we just need to
give the guy a different fucking Irish name. And uh,
Trask reminds me of this character and Working Girl. Have
you seen Working Girl Melanie Griffith and Joan Cusack.

Speaker 4 (32:27):
No, but I should.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Oh my god, Lisa, it's one of the best movies.
I love it so much. It's one of the best movie.

Speaker 4 (32:34):
Seems like it's up my alley.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
It is absolutely I mean, let the River Run is
like the big song from it, you know, like for
the Carly Simon song, like they're on the ferry from
Staten Island and it's like let the river like it's
so good. Anyway, Melanie Griffith. In the movie, there's a
character named Trask and she always goes mister Trask, and
the way she keeps saying, it's like that name's always
in my head because she says it's so sexy. And

(32:58):
then I looked it up and the guy who plays
t is Svu Judge and Vincenzo from It Takes Two.
So it is a full circle Trask moment for me
right now that this guy and I forgot his name.
It's phil Bosco, I think is his name, and so
that just wow, that on the top of my head
is part of the illness that I have, like that
I just know this man's name off the top of
my head. Anyway, he is mister Trask and working girl.

(33:21):
And if you're a working girl, girly, let us know
in the comments, because I fucking love that movie. So anyway,
this blonde woman enters the building, the apartment building, and
she goes Deanima to the doorman and then he just
like lets her through and she heads to the elevator
and she gets on with this other guy and he says,
de anima to her, So I mean, Anima in Italian

(33:45):
is soul, so I don't know if that's like Latin
and that's some kind of like from the Soul password,
but it's very on the nose, and it's this feels
like some kind of eyes wide shut shit immediately, right.
So they take the elevator up together, her and this guy.
Inside it's obviously a massive apartment. People are barefoot, there's
projections on the wall reading Release Bliss and everything now,

(34:07):
and there's like what I imagined the CD they sold
at the Rainforest Cafe, like that kind of music is playing.
And then Declan Trask walks up. He's cute. The actor's
named Stuart Townsend. I literally recognize this man because he
dated Charlie's theron hat Mary Well. He said they were married,
but they weren't married. He said that they referred to

(34:28):
each other as husband and wife, but they weren't, but
that they never actually did like a ceremony or like
a legal thing.

Speaker 4 (34:35):
So yeah, I just remember him being really tan. Yeah
he is.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
I mean he's especially for an irishman. He's quite tanned
for an irishman. And it's like, yeah, we just had
iconic Donald Logue as Declan and he was declan undercover.
We don't need another duclan. Let's get another name up
here with this Decklan Trask. But nonetheless he's here. I
don't really know what else I know this guy from,
but he's acted in a bunch of stuff. I don't
know if he acts anymore. And then the girl, the
blonde girl is Kristin Hager. She has been on Chicago Med.

(35:02):
She's on suits La, which just premiered I believe, or
is premiering right now, because it is kind of wild
that suits just did so well on Netflix that they
just rebooted it kind of and now there's a Suit's La.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
It's like, it's like, I mean, that's what's like cool.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Timing isn't anything you know, like the Kate Bush song
that became popular because of like Stranger Things, and all
the songs that became repopular because of Yellow Jackets, like
or that Cruel Summer from Taylor Swift was like number
one on the charts year after five albums were released.
So it's Jornsnoff did a speech about this. I'm not, like,

(35:40):
you know, a musical chart genius, but it's like cool
that things have less of a timeline now.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Well, yeah, even like when you think about like Jeane
Smart having the best time time of her career. I mean,
I know she's been around for a while, but she's
honestly popping like later in her career.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
Jennifer Coolidge, same thing. It's great.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
I mean I love that and everyone to make it
about me. But you could still watch my special night
owll Netflix, or tell.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
A friend or a coworker, yes, get in there.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
Night Owl's probably doing great right now, but like who
fucking knows, in like two years, it could be something
where it like pull ups off and gets mass. Of course,
hopefully sooner, but you know what I mean, It is
just cool to have your shit out there because anything
could happen with it at anytime.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
Anyway. Okay, so yeah, so she's on Suit's La.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
She's the moment you're gonna see her more of her,
And this is obviously now we're figuring out some kind
of ayahuasca ceremony. Everybody's gathered around some big like cauldron.
He's doling out this tea and he's like, if you
open your souls tonight could change.

Speaker 4 (36:44):
Your whole life.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
And the elevator guy says to the blonde girl, buckle
your seatbelt and whatever. They have like a little cheers moment.
We don't see her drink the tea. We just cut
to her boyfriend dragging her test VU Okay, she wants
to leave. She's like, this is a bad idea, fine,
I'm fine, and he's insisting. He goes in and grabs
Benson and goes, I think my girlfriend Abby was raped

(37:05):
at a spiritual retreat last night.

Speaker 4 (37:07):
And as they go.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Back into the hallway, Abby's trying to kind of run
her way away and Benson's like, not so fast, girly,
I'm your best friend. She's like, Hi, Like let Abby
don't go anywhere, Like, let's talk about this. What happened?
Where did this happen? Can you name your rapist? And
she goes, yeah, Declan Trask. She goes, he's a healer
who was supposed to change my life and now, if
you know, he has changed her life in a bad way.

(37:30):
So now that's the credits. Top of Act one were
in wood room blinds. Abby's explaining I was at the
siahuasca retreat and Benson's never heard of yahuasca before. I mean,
it's twenty seventeen. I was surprised. I was surprised she
knows everything about fashion. I guess she's not as hot
into the drug world. I was just so not into that.
She's a cop. At the end of the day, she's

(37:50):
not into drugs, sure, but like and she can't get
spiritual or she would quit her job.

Speaker 4 (37:55):
It's too much beat to handle.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
I know.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
Yeah, Benson can't meditate.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
She has to do like kickboxing only and like running
in the park with a trainer. Okay, So Benson is
like Ayahuasca come again and rollins is like it's a
drug from Peru. It causes hallucinations. It's supposed to give
you insights into your life. And I would say around
this time in twenty seventeen, ayahuasca is big, Like people are.
I'm starting to hear of comics, a lot of comics

(38:23):
and comedians and people I know going on ayahuasca retreats.
It's like, allegedly, you go for like a whole weekend,
you drink it, you throw up a lot thing, talk
the relatives.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
And they're gonna get into it.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
In the episode, I like love the people they cast
in the direction it gets shotted in. It's just like
it's always the worst most unstable lunatic people that are
telling you it's changed their lives, and you're sitting there
being like you are worse than ever. Yeah, you're worse
than ever. Ketamine did not work for you. I don't know,
you need to sue somebody, like it's never I mean

(38:55):
there was one Like so it's really I've been on
that for years. Yeah, cool, that's to turrent for me now.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
I well, I heard about it on like Bitch Sash,
like Casey Wilson's Bravo podcast, Like she went out and
did it and was like talking about talking about it
and everything. But she was like making jokes about how
she was like fucking up during like the throwing up
and everything. I mean, she loves to talk about like
shitting her pants and all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
But anyway, I just.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Remember being like, oh, it feels like a lot of
people are doing ayahuasca right now, like it's having a time.
And Abby's like They're like, okay, so you were on
ayahuasca And Abby's like, no, I never took it.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
I got scared.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
So you know, one of the reasons why we didn't
see your drink it is because you never fucking drank it.
And she's like, this all went down around twelve thirty.
But also it's like, if you're gonna do ayahuasca, you're
not in Manhattan. I feel like you're getting out. You're
going into the woods somewhere. It's a full weekend. You're
gonna throw up. It's not like getting into a cab
and going to some bolding in a big apartment. But
maybe I'm maybe I'm Slee did a drug journey at

(39:52):
a house near the airport in La So you never know.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
You never know where a drug journey was.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Oh, that is funny. Near the airport near lax Well, Mick,
I have a friend that lives there. He could do
a perfectly nice drug journey at her house.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
But also like she was full plastic surgery out and
deferring to her husband. It was just like, I don't
think you're the spiritual that we're looking for.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, because it's like probably the people that are actually
good at spiritually leading you don't have access to like
the marketing and the money to.

Speaker 4 (40:22):
Get to you.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
You know, like it's these grifter people that have enough
money for plastic surgeryy or in this episode, a rich
kid gone, you know, trying to change his life or.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
Whatever, which we'll get to.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
So twelve thirty, Abby goes into the meditation room because
she wants to be alone because everyone's tripping, and I mean,
at that point, i'd be like, babe, I'm going home,
Like I don't know.

Speaker 4 (40:42):
I guess you paid for this.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
But if I'm not doing the ayahuasca and everyone's fucking
tripping and puking, I'm out of there.

Speaker 4 (40:47):
But Declan finds her there.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
She says he gives her water and then she says
she felt strange and dizzy after drinking the water. And
they're like, oh, so maybe he slipped ayahuasca. She's like, no, no, no,
like that shit is brown sludge. I would have seen it.
I to taste it, and you know, she didn't know
nothing about the water. Seemed weird. And they're like, okay,
well he must have drugged her with something else. She's like,
I felt totally disoriented. He just kept talking and talking,

(41:09):
and the next thing she knew, he pulled down her
pants and he was, you know, assaulting her. She wanted
to scream, but she was paralyzed. She felt powerless. So
this sounds a lot like the scopolamine stuff that we've
talked about a million times, which is like, you're not roofeed,
because when you're roofied, you're out right, like you're just
you're awake, you're still functioning, you could even maybe talk,
but you're like.

Speaker 4 (41:30):
Zombie like state.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
And you know, we just did an episode about this
with the ice cream truck driver. So they want to
take her to the hospital for first thing, for a
rape kit and a talk screen, So good first step.
In the next scene, the Gang Benson Rollins, Finn and
Careesi are watching Trask give like a ted talk about
really looking in the mirror and realizing your potential, and

(41:53):
Cariese's like, why does this guy look like his shoes
costs more than my rent? And Finn's like, oh, because
they do. Like he's from money. His dad is a
huge hedge fund guy named Tate Drask, And you know
we talk about this a lot, but it's like, why
do you have to work?

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Yeah, and then a lot of these rich people they
do want purpose, and it's like, why don't you just
I mean, they just don't have it in them, but
it's like just help people. Then yeah, I guess he
thinks he's helping people, but it is like, I just
if I came from extreme hedge fund wealth, I would
be lounging.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Oh. It's like, have you seen that meme that's going
around about Elon Musk where it's like, you're like the
richest man in the world. Where's the Elon Musk Library,
Where's the Elon Musk hospital wing, where is the foundation
that Elon Musk does for like blind children or you
know what I mean? Like, he doesn't do anything good
with his fucking money. Maybe he might, he might donate
that we don't know, but it's like it's not Knocks,

(42:43):
it's not He's not Bill Gates, you know what I
mean or Melinda Gates. Okay, So anyway, fuck these guys.
He's a fucking hedge fund baby. And they find a
headline about him from notorious party boy to Shaman of
the rich and Famous, and this article talks about how
people pay five k for a weekend for his like

(43:04):
little retreats or whatever. So Rollins is like there's a
sucker born every minute, and Finn's like, I don't know,
Like I like how Finn Like if this was Finn
early seasons, he would have been like fuck these people,
but that he grows so much from like to season
eighteen where he goes, I don't know, everybody needs something.
He's like, my ex made me go on a reiki

(43:24):
retreat to clear my energy. And they're like, well had
that go and he goes, yeah, made me realize it
was time to break up. So we're having fun with Finn.
But Finn's like, live you ever do anything like that?
And She's like, fuck that noise. Anyone who claims they
can change your life in a weekend can't. So live
is as you said, Lisa not here for the fucking
meditation retreats. It's just not her all.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
I mean maybe if she went to Jamaica she would
hit a little weed.

Speaker 4 (43:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I just don't.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
I think she's a wine girl, very into the law,
even if yeah might let me tell you mental like
if we did Mollie. I don't think she would judge
us if we told her. But I just can't see
her as a drug girl.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
Yeah. I could see her.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
Being like after they first of all CBD gummies, I
bet you somemmer therapist.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
Told her about.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
But then I bet legal maybe once New York went
like a half a gummy.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, yeah, just a little bit with the wind. But
I think they might drug test them. I mean she's
a sergeant, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yeah, they still drug test for weed and places where
it's legal, like police, police and stuff.

Speaker 4 (44:27):
Well, I know, if like.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
You work for the federal or like you work, there's
some jobs where I think, like if you're a surgeon,
you can't like to ask your brother, but like it,
just like there are some jobs i'd prefer you not
be a stoner. Yeah, that's what I would like. Speaking
of my brother, he just writes.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Me, I'm gonna I'm gonna spark the joint as I
give it up to the surgeons speaking of my brother,
like as I literally the other yesterday he texted me.
He goes, I'm a little bit behind on the podcast,
but it is just funny to me that you keep
saying claraza pan and it's clarazza pam. And I'm like,
he goes, I'm sure a lot of people have written that.
I go, No, actually, Colin, you're the first one. You're
the first person to let me know that I've been

(45:04):
saying this fucking medication wrong for so long. Anyway, live
maybe as we discussed live, like that's what she's up
to drug wise, she's not, you know, she's not going
to any retreats. And she sends Rollins and Careesi to
talk to Declan, like let's go find out what this
guy has to.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
Say at his place.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
He's like, hey, yeah, like, if you're here about the ayahuasca,
it's legal. I'm registered to distribute it as a religious
ceremony as part of like the Church of Brazil or
something like that.

Speaker 4 (45:29):
And they're like, yeah, we're not here about that.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
They do the usual song and dance like you know
this girl, Oh yeah, that's abbyous.

Speaker 4 (45:34):
She okay, no, she was assaulted.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Oh no, And then he says he doesn't know anything
about her assault. But then he's like, I mean we
had consensual sex, but like, I don't know how she
could have thought that was rape. He goes, yeah, she
didn't want to take the ayahuasca, so she went another room.
Then we meditated, we talked, and then Rollins is like,
and then had sex. Like again, it's like, it's not
that hard to just be have integrity. If this is

(45:58):
what you're doing and you're opening people's minds, don't sex
into it. Like if that's what you're like, I don't
know have sex with the people later. I'm sure they
all want to fuck you, Like, don't do it in
the middle of the ceremony. But obviously we find out
more about this man, and he's like, well, I like
to think it's more meaningful than like just sex. You know.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
I liked her, she liked me. We connected.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
And then they're like, he goes, maybe she had a
change of hard or feels guilty, but I swear it
was consensual, and she said yes. They asked him about me,
like did you put anything in her water? He's like
the drugging allegation is ridiculous, and Cresey's like, well, you
do drug people for a living, and he's like, I
swear to put anything in her water. He shows them
the meditation room and talks about their passionate moment of
spiritual connectivity. The apartment is truly huge, I mean the

(46:40):
most massive windows in just like a meditation room. Declann
tell I would love to be a location scout for
s for you. How fun? Okay, So Declan tells them,
of course, I'll give my DNA. But he's like, oh man,
the names of the people at the retreat. My people
are private like that, people expect privacy. It's like you're
not a therapist. And then Cresey's like, we will get
a warrant. So now they obviously do get a warrant

(47:01):
because now they're at this woman, Christina's apartment, and she
is raving about the retreat. She's talking to Finn and
she's like, I'm a different woman. I see the world
differently now. Declan filled a void and she also has
an insanely huge apartment and Finn is like, dog, this
apartment is amazing, and she's like, oh, thank you. And
then they just move on and she says Declan was

(47:22):
obsessed with Abby before they took the ayahuasca. He was
asking her all these questions and then like what about
after the ayahuasca? And the woman's like, I really can't
speak to that. I was fucked up.

Speaker 4 (47:31):
Then she starts telling Finn about her trip.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
She's like, I was walking on water and.

Speaker 4 (47:35):
There was the back.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
This is what I was thinking about where it's like
you are unchanged. I love the zoom out. This is
like I wonder what the director. The director is a
sense of.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Humor, yeah, yeah, Like they're definitely laughing about wellness in
this episode, and like because she's like, then I realized
I was the owl, and Finn goes, okay, I'm happy
for you.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
It's so funny.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
It's like the funniest like phin like because it's almost
like Finn getting bit in the ass for what he
was trying to say earlier, because he was kind of like,
you know, I don't know some of this stuff.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
Is like good for people.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
And then he has to listen to somebody's fucking dream
and he and somebody's trip story and he's like, fuck, man,
I guess everybody should get a grip this got.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
This director does not have a comedy bone in his body.
I mean it, oh first first directorial debut, sixth episode
of Homicide, Life on the Street.

Speaker 4 (48:25):
It's like truly ohs.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Fifty five episodes of SVU, CSIA Unit, Kidnapped, Life on Mars,
and Treatment Trauma Shook.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Oh my God in Treatment Made Me Depress, Damages, three
episodes Boss Elementary, but like.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
Truly the most serious stuff.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Wow, Nashville seems like the lightest on this guy's uh well,
maybe it's like that kind of guy's trying to get
a little humor into what he works on. If he's
funny in real life, who knows, you know.

Speaker 4 (48:52):
Oh, he did funny.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Seize, but there was no jokes there. Wrath tangled popular,
Oh he did hooked.

Speaker 4 (48:58):
He did hooked. The director of this it Hooks, which we.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Just said last week, which is so crazy because they're
thirteen episodes apart from each other, or seasons apart from
each other.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
He's been directing a fifty five episodes from nineteen ninety
nine to twenty twenty four. Wow, he is a director's name,
Jean Dison Zach.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Oh, yes, I recognize his name, Jean Desk or whatever. Yeah,
Like he's like he's like.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
Always in the sega sack.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeaheah. I recognize his name because it's like it's not
like it's not like Bill Stanley. It's like his name
is like, you know, he has like a name I
recognized from the credits. Oh, let's one day we can
get Jean on the podcast.

Speaker 4 (49:34):
So anyway comes on.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
He goes, it's actually Gene, It's actually Jean Desasniak.

Speaker 4 (49:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
So now we're talking to the guy from the elevator,
the guy who Abby saw when she rode the elevator
up that she kind of had a little moment with
and the.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
Elevator guy's like cleaning up. He's at a coffee shop
where he works.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
He's cleaning up a table and he tells Careesy, Yeah,
like Abby didn't drink the tea, and he's like, I
fucking wish I didn't either. I spent half the night puking,
and he's like yeah, like and like that shaman spends
most of his soul men time on the good looking ladies,
especially Abby, So this guy is a hater. He wishes
he did not spend five k on this fucking retreat.
And again, a lot of money to save up if

(50:10):
you're working at a coffee shop to go puke for
a while and not have a good experience. So this
guy goes, yeah, Declan told me he was bummed Abby
didn't drink the tea and he wanted her to get
her money's worth. Then he saw Declan get her water,
but he didn't see him put anything in it. But
he's like, I was also puking, so I might not
have seen that. And then he's like, I'm not like,
I'm not psyched on that guy. He's a con artist.
So all right, we're getting two different Christina, the woman

(50:32):
from before Obsessed Coffee shop boy not obsessed. Corisie and
Rollins are at a place now called body Food by Valerie,
and Rollins just wants to tell. She's like, I just
want to tell all these vegetarian eating fucks how good
my burger was last night. And Chrisey's like, I actually
ate here last week and the raw portobello fries weren't
so bad. I mean, you know, I hate mushrooms, but

(50:53):
that sounds disgusting even if you like mushrooms, Like a
raw portobello fry, what makes it a fry that it's
shaped in a long tube, Like, that's not fry. It's
not fried anyway. Rollins is like, oh, since wonder you
a raw food guy? And he goes, I'm trying new things.
And Rollins goes, you ever gonna bring her around? Ooh,
a little careesy love life intrigue. He doesn't comment. Then

(51:15):
Valerie herself walks up Valerie of body Food by Valerie,
and they ask her about the retreat and she's like, yeah,
I saw Abby sitting alone in the meditation room crying,
And they're like, did you ask her if she was okay?
And She's like, oh, no, I just assumed it was
like cathartic tears, you know, ayahuasca provides this sort of beautiful,
joyous pain.

Speaker 4 (51:33):
And then she goes.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
But then I did see Abby twenty minutes later leaving,
and she seemed upset and angry, and Rollins goes, I
guess her pain wasn't so joyous. Huh. So they're getting
some digs in back at the precinct. They're giving vents
in the info. They're like, yeah, Trusk definitely had his
eye on Abby. Finn walks in semen is a match
to Trask, But that's like not shocking because he admitted
that they had sex. But the shock is no drugs

(51:55):
found in her system. Talkscreen clean, no ayahuasca, no alcohol,
and Benson's like, so Abby's story doesn't add up, and
it's like, yeah, but there's plenty of drugs that they
don't test for. We've talked about that on various SPUs,
Like we just did the one about the Bartender, the
Solving for the Unknowns that's like two or three seasons
after this one, but still, like even on the other
episode that they did with Kelly Hugh, like there's copollam me,

(52:19):
and there's like stuff they don't test for. So it's
weird that they're like Abby's story, like, we're doubting Abby
now because even like.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
The date rape drug if like that, I don't Yeah,
says in your system either.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
Yes, well they talk about that later. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Yeah. But so they've got Wooby Wooby. Oh my god,
they've got Abby in wood room lines. I just said Wooby.
That was being wood. I was saying wood room lines
and Abby at the same time. So they've got Wooby
in the wood room lines. And she's confused how the
talk screen came back negative. She was like, no, there's
no way I was disoriented. I was frozen. Benson explains, Oh,

(52:56):
it's possible that you had tonic immobility, which I think
is a great, great thing that they talk about in
the show because I think a lot of women when
they are attacked or in any way, like even if
someone steals your purse or like you're assaulted in any way,
you like, this is basically your brain telling your body
to freeze, to shut down. It's like fight or flight.
This is the this is the like flight or just

(53:17):
frozen part of it, or it's it's fight, flight or freeze.
Isn't that really the three things? So I think tonic
immobility is the freeze. And Abby's like, yeah, I hear
what you're saying about tonic immobility, but I felt this
way before the assault actually happened, like I started to
feel this weird paralysis. So she goes over her story again.
He came in, gave her the water, told her to relax,

(53:39):
and that he was going to take her to the
sixth plane of enlightenment. And he said, when you look
at me, you might find yourself enveloped by a warm feeling.
And then she felt this weird out of body experience.
He kept whispering, you look like a beautiful rag doll. Ugh,
and she goes, that's how I felt, though, she said,
I had no control over my own body.

Speaker 4 (53:57):
I've never had that feeling before.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
So now we're talking to Barba and they bring up
rufe's and like they're like, well, Rufe's can leave your
system in hours, like one tinkle and it's out of there.
But they're like, yeah, but rhypnal doesn't really match because
she remembers everything like she remembers it happening, you know,
like that's more of the scopalamine. It feels like, well
because like Rufie's is like you wake up and you're like,
what I've lost time, you know, But that's not what

(54:21):
happened here. Barba wonders, Oh, do we think Abby has
another agenda? Like Trass comes from a ton of money,
And they're like, I don't know, dog. She's a successful publicist,
her boyfriend's a partner in a law firm. She has
a nice outerwear, like I don't think she's like, you know,
out here for a payday, and Careese's like, well, I
found another possible victim from a civil case in New Jersey,
a woman named Rachel Sykes who accused Trask in twenty fourteen,

(54:44):
and then Cariesi and Rollins go to the lawyer to
see what's up, and the lawyer's like, okay, yeah, like
Trask is a piece of shit. She's like, Rachel had
a solid case. She took a rape kit and she
swore she was drugged. But there was a negative talk screen,
like all the same calling cards as Abby's case.

Speaker 4 (54:59):
She got hired.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Basically, they dropped the case because Rachel got tired of
fighting him. She spiraled, She got depressed, she moved back
to Ohio, and then she died three months later of
pancreatic cancer. Tragic and horrible. That's like really the worst
thing ever. But the good news is they have Rachel's
whole statement on video and it's basically they start watching it,
it's the same exact story as Abby's. She also kind

(55:20):
of looks like Abby, like a pretty blonde, and like
the whole thing about giving her the water, the sixth
plane of enlightenment, the beautiful rag doll, her feeling limp,
and then the rape, like all of this is the
exact same. And Finn's like, maybe he slipped something undetectable
into her water, and Barbara goes, I think he slipped
something undetectable into his words neuro linguistic programming.

Speaker 4 (55:41):
She was hypnotized. I didn't see this coming.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Me neither, and everyone looked shocked. I mean, in my mind,
I was like, well, it can't be another drug. We
haven't found thing, because that's literally they've done so many
episodes about that, but they honestly do an episode about
it in three seasons, so they could have.

Speaker 4 (55:58):
But everyone looks shocked.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
They're like, what, like, Barbara, you're not usually one to
think outside the box like this. Victims stories are the same.
Careese says, yeah, I don't know, guys, this seems like
really out there for me. Am I the only one
that's like, you know, from Staten Island and doesn't believe
in this kind of shit. And Finn's like, I don't know.
My cousin quit smoking with hypnosis. So they're like, well,
we really can't use Rachel's case because the suit was dismissed.

(56:20):
We have to prove that he knowingly used hypnosis, so
let's start digging on where he may have learned this hypnosis.
So now Rollins and CAORESI are at Regent's College in
New Jersey and they're asking this professor about Declan and
the professor's like, oh, I remember Declan because his dad
gave a lot of money. And they go, well, we're
going to need his transcripts. Why are you talking to
professor about his transcripts? They don't have that anyway, Declan.

(56:41):
The guy goes, well, they're going to be pretty short
because he was kicked out his junior year, and the
professor's like, I can't really talk about why, and they're like, sir,
we're going to get a warrant, save us the time,
help us nab a rapist. Come on, like, do us
a solid, and they're like the guy's like, yeah, he
had a serious drug problem. Like we tried to help
him as much as we could, but we couldn't. He
went to an addiction facility in the Hampton's called the Springs.

(57:03):
So now we're at the Springs. We're walking and talking
with a counselor and he said, oh, yeah, I just
talked to Declan two weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (57:09):
Like we're very close, We're very tight.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Guess how they helped Declan kick his heroin habit everybody hypnosis.
They're like, we saw him for sixty days and at
the end, if he even thought about heroin, he would
physically gag. We think, I don't understand if hypnosis is
so good, why we're not using it for so much shit?

Speaker 2 (57:29):
I think it's expensive or yeah, last the whole time.
He can't just be hypnotized forever?

Speaker 4 (57:35):
Yeah, does it? That's what I was gonna say. I
wonder if it like when I left.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
The Office Space, I wish I could have an office
Space experience. I think I live like the guy from
Office Space post hypnosis.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Wait, who got hypnotized in office space? Remind me what
happens in that man guy, the main guy, Ron Livingston.

Speaker 4 (57:53):
Yeah, that's this whole thing.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
That's why he becomes like a different kind of guy
and doesn't care about work. He gets hypno trys to
stop giving a fuck and like to be a little
bit more.

Speaker 4 (58:02):
Okay, I forgot that.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Well.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
No, the hypnotist has like a heart attack and dies
mid hypnosis, so he never wakes up from the hip.

Speaker 4 (58:09):
That's why he's like living this life.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
And then because then the ex girlfriend is pissitive.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
She's like, you just sat there as he was dying. Yeah,
because he's in a trance, right. Okay, Wow, I like
love that movie and I've seen it dozens of times
and that's really wild. I just don't remember that part really,
but now I'm remembering it now that you bring it up.

Speaker 4 (58:29):
On my Delta movies. Yeah, Delta movies.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Wait, I once watched a magician like hypnotize a bunch
of people on stage, and like, I actually asked a
lot of my magic coworkers when I was working at
Magic for Humans, you have to also be susceptible to hypnotism,
like some people not everyone is and not everyone is.
Like they would figure out ways, like they were ways

(58:53):
that they would do hypnotism. They told me for like
TV shows where they would bring people into rooms and
they were just kind of be prompts and like different
ways that you could figure out who was susceptible and
who wasn't, and they would they would excuse the people
that weren't susceptible, and that's how they like they would
find people.

Speaker 4 (59:08):
I don't want to give away.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
All the trints. I want to know. I want to know.

Speaker 4 (59:12):
I don't want to give away all the tricks.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
But that's like you know, and then you can do
hypnosis because like a lot of mentalist stuff apparently is hypnosis,
and like I do believe some of this, Like I watched,
We watched so much hypnosis and magic stuff when I
was in the room for this show. Like one time
a guy was paying a vendor at on the street
for food with white pieces of paper and the guy
was counting it out like it was money because he'd

(59:34):
like hypnotized him.

Speaker 4 (59:36):
No, I that had happened.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
I saw my friend give money that wasn't what he
was at Like in front of my eye was like
what the fuck just happened? And then it had happened
to my other friend that were at her work in
the same area, like someone was hitting all the spots.
And then I followed the guy and he did lose me.
He's he was like a master little trickster.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
Wow, Like I watched I watched like at a magic show,
like from a magician, like who's pretty good but not
like a major mentalist. And he had this woman and
he was like, Okay, look out there, everybody in the
audience is naked. And I watch this woman, who like
does not have a sense of humor get mortified because
she thought every single person in the room was naked,
and he had her beeping like the road runner like
he like.

Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
It just feels like if it helps so many people,
I wish we could. I wish that like it would
work like more. I guess.

Speaker 4 (01:00:22):
I guess it was more full personally doesn't share.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
The dangers a lot, because you know the other ones
where it's like they hypnotize someone to have experience and
then it's not a real experience.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
I don't know if I I like it for getting
rid of addiction, I don't like it for recovered memory,
you know, because I feel like that's dicey anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:00:40):
So yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Basically this guy every time he thought about heroin, if
he even thought about it, he would gag. So the
hypnotism works perfect on Decklan Trask, and they're like, well
to the guy, They're like, we think he might be
using these techniques to sexually assault women. And like this
guy who just said yeah, me and Decklin are really close,
like we're buddies, turns on him like a dime.

Speaker 4 (01:00:58):
He goes, yeah, I mean we're close, but I know
who he is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Like, I like the guy I hang out with him,
but I know that he has rape in his heart,
Like I know he could actually assault people, no problem,
Like it's just it's it's not surprising. I feel like
a lot of men probably feel that way about their friends.
But he was like, I wasn't really crazy about this
whole ayahuasca thing that he was doing. I just feel
like he's he's just like another dealer pedaling drugs. So,
you know, he admits that he helped teach Trask to hypnotize,

(01:01:24):
but he's like, he told me.

Speaker 4 (01:01:25):
He wanted to use it to help other people. He
wanted to pay it forward.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
So I taught him everything I know and he says
that he will help the cops bring Declan down. So
now cut to Declan and the therapist guy meeting at like
I can't tell what it is, a bar, coffee shop,
somewhere public, and he's like, oh man, I need your help.
The therapist he's like, recently, I was working with this
like client, this woman. She was like an addict, and

(01:01:48):
the conversation she was under like my hypnosis, and the
combo got sexual. I couldn't stop myself. I kissed her.
He's like, then I stopped myself, but I didn't want to.
So he's setting up this whole like uh, you know,
staying or whatever. Declan's like, well, hypnosis doesn't make anyone
do something that they didn't already want to do. So
if she kissed you, it's because she wanted to, like

(01:02:09):
in her subconscious and it's like that's so that's just.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
The rape language is wild.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Finn and Rollins are like watching all this go down
in the van, you know, and the guy's like, hypnosis
sometimes lead to sex. It happens, that's what Trask is saying,
And the therapist is like, you've done that, and Declan's like,
it's no big deal. I'm helping a woman get what
she really wants. And then you could like, Trask isn't stupid.
The therapist goes, when was the last time you did this?

(01:02:35):
Like why would you be asking for those specific details?

Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
And then Declan's yeah, he fucked up. He kind of
makes questions. Yeah, he goes, ah, good to see you, buddy,
I got her run.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
So he gets up but uh oh, like yeah, maybe
he figured out the sting. Before you can walk out
of the place, Rollins and Finn are on his ass.
They arrest him and Rollins goes, look deep into my eyes.
So she's still making fun of the whole premise of
the hypnosis. In cement room, Declan is like, you guys
got me all wrong. I'm a healer that there's intimacy

(01:03:06):
involved that sometimes leads to consensual sex. So they bring
up Rachel Sykes and Declan's like, I should probably get
a lawyer, and Finn's like, well, if this will go
to trial, if you lawyer up, and then he goes,
do you think a jury is gonna believe that I
Declan Trask hypnotized Abby so I could have sex with her,
and Live is like, A, that wasn't sex, it was rape,
and b yes, I do think a jury will believe that.

(01:03:26):
And then Live tells Finn, could you escort our spiritual
friend to wrikers please? So now we're in court and
Barbara is, oh, my god, I did it. I just said, Barbara,
so out in the open, so brazen. Barbara is addressing
the jury and he's doing his opening statement right, and
he's like, you know, he sounds good. He's killing him.

(01:03:46):
He's getting all the points in. And then uh oh,
Declan has Rita Calhoun fuck. But Barbara's opening statement is
slick and it's about this is a healer who's really
a predator. And now it's Rita's turn. She calls Barbara's
claims ridiculous. Deck Clan hask is hot and single and
that the two of them had sex that night. She's
kind of like Blake, basically playing on the idea of

(01:04:08):
like why would this hot, single, rich guy need to
do this like a little bit in her opening statement.
And then we cut to the boyfriend, Abby's boyfriend who
we met at the very beginning, and he's he's in
court and he does not look comfortable, he looks uncomfy,
and then Rita calls the hypnosis claim completely absurd. So
now Abby is on the stand. She's testifying she was
happy when she went to the meditation room. She's like,

(01:04:30):
I was good. I didn't want to take the drugs.
I went there just to think and to meditate. She explains,
like everything we've heard so far, how he brought her
the water. He kept saying, you might find yourself at peace,
You may find yourself soothed by my voice. Can you
imagine how good you'll feel while you listened to me?
She said she became disoriented and felt like she was
in a dream and she couldn't control her body. Then
she describes the rape and how terrified she was, and

(01:04:53):
that's the end of her time with Barba and uh oh,
it is now Rita's turn. She asks Abby, well, didn't
you go to this rot treat with the intention to
sleep with someone else? And Abby's like, that's not true,
and then Rita enters into evidence Abby's application to the
retreat to me and wants her to read from the
top of the page.

Speaker 4 (01:05:09):
I'm like, not remembering this part of the episode.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
I'm like, what the fuck could she possibly have written
that would be so bad because she doesn't want to
read it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
She's freaking out. Barba's like, can we get a moment?

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
And Rita's like, she can't have a moment during my
cross and Barba's like please and begs the judge. And
the judge is Amy Brebson, who is Andre Brower's widow
and a wonderful judge that we've seen many, many times.
And she's like, fine, you can take fifteen minutes, but Barbara,
you know you're not allowed to talk to her during
that time, and like, I didn't realize that, so you know,

(01:05:38):
obviously we've got to send live to do the dirty work.
So now Abby is in the hallway outside the courtroom.
Her boyfriend tries to talk to her, and Rollins says like,
why don't you come with me. Let's go, let me
go flirt with you by a ending machine. And then
Benson talks to Abby, who is upset, like Rita is
trying to humiliate me, Like what the fuck? Benson's like,
the thing is, Benson's not even trying to find out

(01:05:59):
what she knows what's on the paper. She's like, you're
prepped for this. We went all over this, like did
you give Steven a heads up? And this is making
me as a viewer like heads up about what? What
the fuck? She goes, I tried three times to talk
to him, but I just couldn't. I can't read that
letter in open court. It will destroy him and it
will destroy our relationship.

Speaker 4 (01:06:17):
I love him.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
I just want this to be over and I'm like
I wrote in my notes, OMG, what is it? Like?
I need to know what this is? And Benson goes,
I get that this is painful, but if you decide
not to testify, Declan's gonna walk like you know, let
me just like lay it down for your baby girl,
Like if you want to walk away, totally okay, but
a rapist walks and like this dog will do it again.
Benson also tells her they are trying to shame her

(01:06:38):
into giving up, but you didn't do anything wrong, so
hopefully this resonates with Abby. It does, She's back on
the stand. In the next scene, she reads this whole
letter out loud, and it's all about growing up in
Iowa wanting the perfect life. She has almost everything she's
ever wanted, but the only thing holding back is done
done her relationship with Steven. She wants to progress, he

(01:07:01):
wants to stay put. They've turned into roommates, not lovers.
I mean, this is humiliating. He looks pretty upset. I
don't understand why in the fifteen minute breaks she couldn't
have talked to Steven and given him heads up. Then,
Like this is so much worse that she's doing it
in public and not didn't just give him heads up.

Speaker 4 (01:07:18):
She goes on, I'm not sure we connect.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
But I also don't think it mattered, Like, I don't
think it means that she would want to cheat on him.
If you're like writing in your diary you want to,
doesn't mean you're gonna do it, and you went there
to fuck someone just like.

Speaker 4 (01:07:29):
Of course I hate the way she's playing it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Of course, and that's why it's like, I don't know
why you wouldn't just go to your boyfriend and go
we'd been fighting. I felt weird, like I you know,
I wanted to. I wrote down a bunch of stuff.
I don't feel this way anymore, but just fy, we're
gonna read it in court. Maybe you want to stay
home that day, babe or something, or just so you
know you're gonna get like cocked in front of all
these fucking people, but not really, you know, like emotionally,

(01:07:54):
I fucking can't.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
Believe I even use that as a verb. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Anyway, she goes on, and she goes I'm not sure
sure we connect anymore intellectually, spiritually or sexually. I mean,
these are major doubts she's having, Like this, this is major.
This isn't just like, hey, we haven't fucked in a while,
or like, I don't know. Intellectually do you think he's
like dumber than you, or like I don't know, or
you're like it's wild. So like again, I just wrote,

(01:08:19):
why the fuck would you not have had your Why
would you have your boyfriend come to court and not
tell him? She tells Rita that she wrote all of
this when she was confused they'd been fighting. She loves
her boyfriend and she would never cheat on him, because
you're right, none of this is admission of cheating. First
of all, nobody goes to an ayahuasca ceremony to have sex.
You're going there for like spiritual enlightenment and to change
the way you.

Speaker 4 (01:08:37):
But why didn't she want to do the drug?

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
That's what I don't understand the people that are like, eh,
never mind, Like I don't get that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
I don't either. I don't either.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
There were definitely like my drug journey, where there were
people that were on certain medications so they couldn't do
the drug we were doing, but then they still did
a different drug.

Speaker 4 (01:08:56):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It's like you
came there for that. You've obviously on your research.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
You're not like a person that just got like brought
in for like, you know, a random Aahuascar party, like
you're I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:09:06):
I don't know why she chickened out. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
So Rita goes, well, it looks like you were in
a rut and looking to explore and you had sex
with another man. Objection sustained, Rita. That was cheeky of you.
So you can't you can't keep calling it that. You know,
you can't keep doing that. And Stephen, he can't take
it anymore. He walks out of the courtroom and Abby's like, no, Stephen, please,
and like from the stand, you know, it's a lot
of drama for the jury to take in. It would

(01:09:30):
have been hard enough to hear all those words just
coming out of her mouth, but let alone in front
of this court room of people, Like I'm sure he's mortified.
The judge adjourns them for the night, but Rita wants
to meet in chambers. Some new evidence has come to light.
This is one of the most fucking crazy things I've
seen them try to shoehorn into an sview in my life.
In chambers, Rita is introducing an audio recording of quote

(01:09:52):
unquote the encounter. Apparently Trask often tapes his encounters with
people at the retreats to protect himself against these kind
of fraudulent accusations.

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
What in the fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Like you could have introduced this months ago, it might
not have even gone to trial. Like if Barbara had thought, oh,
this is too damning, he wouldn't have taken it to trial,
you know what I mean, Like this is a crazy
thing to.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
Throw out in the mid trial. It makes anything it's
not real. Or maybe he's like so arrogant he didn't
think you'd need it like I do.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Wonder you're right, yeah, like that he just wouldn't show
that to them. Oh, by the way, I have recording
devices around my entire area.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
Like the prosecution is to give up all evidence, does
the defense doesn't have to.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
The defense has to, but she's claiming she just got it.
She's claiming it's from the guy. Yeah, yeah, Like there
is discovery.

Speaker 4 (01:10:45):
I believe that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
I believe the defense has to give everything to the
prosecution that they have as well, like in discovery, but
like yeah, and Barbara's just as pissed as we are.
He's like, you're just now introducing this, like what now
a warning? And the judge wants the judge wants to
hear okay, and the tape is is him going, I'm
going to take you to the sixth plane, Okay, you

(01:11:05):
want to come with me there? And she's like I will,
and then he goes and you want me to have
sex with you? And she goes yes, But like, this
doesn't sound like a woman who's like enthusiastically consenting to sex.

Speaker 4 (01:11:15):
Like she sounds like a robot, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
She's just like like monotone, monosyllabic answers pretty much like
and Barba's like, well, she's hypnotized. This means nothing, but
Rita's like the jury might feel differently. And then in
the next scene, Rita and Barba are walking and talking.

Speaker 4 (01:11:32):
She's like, hey, baby. Just because the judge is.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
Letting me, like, letting me play the recording doesn't mean
I'm adverse to a deal.

Speaker 4 (01:11:38):
So she knows that this guy did.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
Something fucked up, because this is pretty smoking gun. This
like a jury hearing a consent on tape. You don't
really get that in a lot of rape cases, you know,
like and so it's wild that Rita still thinks that
this hypnosis argument has legs because now she's offering a deal.
They haggle back and forth. Barba's like, I want him
on the She's tried to get a misdemeanor. He's like

(01:12:03):
it's a felony, and I want him on the registry.
She's like assault to no registry. They're going back and forth.
Now he's talking to Live Lives. Pissed, She's like, no registry.
Fuck that, I want this fucker on the registry. And
Abby wants to let the jury decide, and Barba's like, well,
it's not really Abby's choice, Like I'm worried we're gonna lose,
and like, I don't love that they're going to hear
a tape of the victims saying yes. And Benson's like, well,

(01:12:24):
let's like lean into it. Let's prove that Tras hypnotized her.
So now Abby is back on the stand. This girl's
had the longest testimony of all time. Rita's badgering her
into saying that, yes, it is her voice on the tape,
but she doesn't remember saying it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:39):
But she does admit it is her voice.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Which is weird because it's like, it does feel like
she remembers everything he said she but she doesn't remember
saying yes. But she remembers everything he said, everything he did,
and how she felt, but she doesn't remember saying yes.

Speaker 4 (01:12:51):
So that is an interesting thing for a part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
I believe her, obviously, I think this happened, but it's
a weird way that this hypnosis works. Now we're at
a bar Live maybe we're at Forlini's, and Live and
Barbara are having a drink and Barba is feeling dejected.
He is like, this is not good. Careese walks in
and he goes, I got something good. It's from eighteen
years ago in Philly, and it's got nothing to do

(01:13:15):
with rape, but it goes to Trask's accountability.

Speaker 4 (01:13:18):
This is another wild turn of this episode that I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
Like, what Barba asks is the arresting officer in and
Crisey's like he's down. And then they're like, well, if
Deckling takes the stand, I will get this admitted. That's
what Barba says. Benson goes, oh, this guy he's going
to take the stand. He thinks he can hypnotize the jury. Okay,
so now we're back at trial. Finally, Declan the spiritual

(01:13:41):
rapist is on the stand and he denies hypnotizing her.
He's like, nope, didn't do any of that. He's got
Rita asking him some softballs and he's like nope, nope, nope,
don't do any of that.

Speaker 4 (01:13:49):
Now it's Barba's turn.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
He asks about the money, like the money that you make,
like like where where does all of it? Doesn't go
all back into your ayahuasca, Like some of it goes
into your foundation, right, which i's clean drinking water to
impoverish countries.

Speaker 4 (01:14:02):
And he's like yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
And then Barbara goes, so you save lives and he's
like yeah, and I'm so proud of myself. Like he's
just like so gross, Like he's very proud of himself
for saving lives. They're like, have you ever been arrested
for a crime, and he says no, and now he goes, uh, okay,
I'm done with this witness. But Barbara immediately goes, I
want to call a rebuttal witness Lieutenant Hill, and Rita's pissed.

Speaker 4 (01:14:26):
She's like, what the fuck's going on.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
They approached the bench and Barbara goes, Lieutenant Hill arrested
Decland twenty two years ago. Okay, Careesi said, eighteen, But
let's go with it. I should be a fucking script supervisor.
I find all these holes anyway, he tells Rita and
the judge. This proves that he is a guy with
no regard for anyone but himself.

Speaker 4 (01:14:44):
Somehow this is let in. I don't know how.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
So now Lieutenant Hill is on the stand and he
reveals that he responded to a car accident back in
nineteen ninety five when Declan Trask hit a street light.
He had drugs in the car, and the officer quickly
learned that Declan had been shooting heroin with a friend
because that friend was upstairs in the house having odd
and he died in Lieutenant Hill's arms.

Speaker 4 (01:15:09):
He was nineteen.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
So they're like, so this defendant ran away while his
friend was dying. And the officer's like, yes, I don't know,
barba bringing up this old ass crime when the defendant
wasn't never got at the time, it would never be allowed. Literally,
Rita calls out that it was expunged from the record,
so like, I don't even understand. I guess because it's expunged,
they couldn't bring it up outright. But because he lied

(01:15:34):
on the stand and said he'd never been arrested, that
opens the door to prove that, yes, he was arrested
and prove that he is a liar.

Speaker 4 (01:15:42):
But in the course of how this, in the history of.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
This show, they've not been allowed to bring up people's
past crimes, even when it's like even when it's like
crimes that are related to the current crime, they can't
bring them up sometimes, you know what I mean, Like
there's just no way that you're like, oh, he failed
the Good Samaritan Act, which was like, I mean, is
there a legal act that says you have to sit
with your friend when he od's like you're on heroin?

(01:16:07):
He ran.

Speaker 4 (01:16:07):
I'm sure people do that every fucking day.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
But saying it's a good thing, but your paint, You're like, like,
I don't know if a jury, If I was on
a jury, I'd be like, okay, it was twenty two
years ago and he was on heroin.

Speaker 4 (01:16:17):
Like I don't know. I just that doesn't illustrate to me.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
To me, what illustrates the bad is not only that
he lied on the stand and now we can get
him for perjury.

Speaker 4 (01:16:28):
Right, but he could say that was expunged.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
So I didn't know if I thought I could say that,
I hadn't be a question. Oh yeah, sure, you know,
Like I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:16:37):
It just this feels such a sad I'm with you.
I'm with this.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
Feels like they had to do rewrites and they were like,
we've got the whole cast here, we got to shoot.

Speaker 4 (01:16:43):
Let's just go, you know, like it was like who
told us? Who told us?

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
Like that they was it dian Neel that told us that.
Sam Watterson was like, don't open Pandora's box. You'll just
have so many questions, Like you know, like if you
start asking questions, but you know that's our job here
on this pod. So I opened the box and I
want to know what the fuck? So it's a fucking stretch.
So now we've got Barba in his final statement, He's
like declan Trask used neuro linguistic techniques.

Speaker 4 (01:17:09):
He admitted doing that to his friend.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
And Barbara's basically like, what you heard on that tape
is essentially like hearing a victim on a date rape
drug giving consent on a tape, Like it's the same thing.
He likens the hypnotism to giving someone a date rape drug.
Abby was not capable of giving consent. So now the
verdict is back and they find him done doone guilty.

Speaker 4 (01:17:29):
He doesn't even look mad.

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
They go to Trask's face and he's like, well they
got me, you know, like he it's very weird, like
he doesn't have a misset.

Speaker 4 (01:17:36):
As like, oh, we'll see you in the appeals right.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
I wrote that as well, like I mean Abby, Abby
is emotional but happy to watch him get carted off.
And like you know, later in the hallway, Abby's there
and Barba and Live go up to her and they're like,
Trusk is going away for a long time, And I wrote,
I doubt it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:54):
He's rich.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
He'll appeal a million times until he's free. Like if
you're rich, you just keep appealing until they figure out
something that your.

Speaker 4 (01:18:00):
Lawyer did wrong or the judge did wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
Or something, and they get you off, like if you
can keep appealing, you will. She thanks them, and I
mean it also not to mention they don't even talk
about it, but like the precedent of it, it's like
anyone that does hypnosis now is going to be under scrutiny.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:18:17):
It's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
But she thanks them, and she's like, oh, Stephen won't
return my calls. I haven't heard from him in three days,
and lives like, girl, you were honest about everything. If
you want this loser who can't fuck back, then good,
why don't you go fight for him? But if he
doesn't get it, it's not worth the fight. And Abby's like,
thank you, thanks again, walks off, and Barble goes, who knows,
maybe it'll all work out, and Live goes, yeah, I hope. So.

(01:18:38):
I think honestly, it's kind of a good thing for
her to clean slate it. I think it's good that
he was with her to help her through the trial.
But she doesn't feel it doesn't feel like she wants
to be with this guy, and he doesn't understand. He's
he's having a temper tantrum and not hearing anything. She
said again that could be more about the public amiliation
of it all. But Stephen and Abby, you guys want

(01:18:59):
different things. He wants to maybe do ayahuasca. You want
to sit on the couch watching Netflix like you're just
you guys. You're not on the same page. But that's
stick wolf baby, that's the end. It ends on living.
Barbara wishing the best for this this kind of dysfunctional couple.
And that's that, and that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
Is that, all right, Okay, a couple cases, a couple
of little freaks. Okay, Michael Fine Cleveland and this guy,
you know, married man of two with two daughters, wildly
not the deterrent to crime like men would.

Speaker 1 (01:19:38):
Like to believe. So funny true. And he was a
divorce attorney.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
He practiced laws since nineteen eighty one, and that's according
to court records reported by Ruders. He didn't lose his
license till November twenty fourteen. So he either like started
being a freaky criminal later or he got away with
it for forever we will not know. So a long
time working, but finally Lorraine County Bar Association filed a

(01:20:07):
motion with the Ohio Supreme Court in twenty fourteen saying
that he utilized hypnotic therapy to facilitate the impairment of
and sexual exploitation of his clients. And that's clearly a
direct quote from Routers. The cops began its investigation in
twenty fourteen, like so as a female client basically discovered

(01:20:31):
her art. She was disheveled, her clothes were disheveled after
meetings with him, her undergarments were moved around and she
couldn't really recall anything that had occurred in the meetings.
So that kind of and this is according to the
Bar Association filing. And then the Sheffield Village Police Department
investigated him after two dozen women came forward with similar complaints.

Speaker 4 (01:20:55):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
One woman wants to be known by only her first name, Melissa.
She said that he would say how he wanted to
help her relax. Never called it hypnosis, but called it mindfulness.
Then they had the client so like the one that
was complaining about being disheveled and having memory loss, decided
to start taping the sessions on her phone and then

(01:21:17):
she handed over that to the authorities and then they
sent her back in with a wire and part as
part of a sting operation. Various I would say this
is more SVU than the episode of SVIE you just
even covered.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
Yeah, So the recordings revealed that shortly after the meeting started,
he would use these code words that induced her into
a trance like stage. So doctor Dan Chue, a neuro psychiatrist,
tells ABC News, So the basic law of hypnosis is
that you cannot make people do what they do not

(01:21:54):
want to do. However, we can affect the things that
you want or what you desire, and so interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
Yeah, but he's just a random guy on the news.
I mean, I don't know him.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
So there was no consent by the women obviously to
go into this trance. And he would say, it's just
a breathing exercise, and then according to ABC News, the
trance went a little like this, your entire body is
a vessel of pleasure and arousal and excitement. And the
better it feels, the tighter you'll grip my hand. And

(01:22:27):
then asks when was the last time you made love?
And then he would ask he yes several times on
the day, to bring a vibrator to the next meeting,
and yeah, oh my god. Also on the tape recording,
according to The Washington Post, I did not pay for it.
I went on safari where I have not reached the

(01:22:48):
maximum because I'm a chrome girl. So on tape, according
to the post, at the count of three, you won't
be able to control yourself. You will remain ravenous, incredibly horny,
amazingly amazingly aroused, and an excited person, and you will
insist that I touch you in any way that brings
you pleasure. And then when she snaps out of the trance,

(01:23:11):
he asks, like nothing's ever happened. He's just like okay,
so here are the papers. And then at that point
the police burst into the room and arrest him.

Speaker 1 (01:23:19):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:23:21):
They hand the case over to the Lorraine County Prosecutor's
office in October twenty fourteen, and then he was arrested
after the hidden camera footage in the office that was
like part of the you know, staying operation obviously, so
for some reason, the authorities released the footage in twenty seventeen,
like to the media, like you can watch it. It's

(01:23:41):
actually really fucked up, like ABC News and twenty something
Yeah called it shocking, but like I just can't imagine
an undercover abuse video that like helps him get captured,
Like why would the authorities do that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
Maybe they got her permission so that people could see
what it looks like.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
Has she had to come forward and do an interview later,
like because she was just like, yeah, I guess they
did that. Oh no, did they blur her face? Well yeah,
it's mostly it's just him. It's just him. But it's
just like, I don't know why the public needed to
see it. I'm confused why authorities would do that. Like,
I just don't get it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
I can only imagine so that other people that feel
like any of those words, like like like oh my god,
that's how I know someone that talks to me with
that kind of like I guess to get the word out.

Speaker 4 (01:24:28):
I don't know, yeah, but that's yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
And then in like what the you know some of
her phone stuff in the hypnosis, he made the woman
like walk to the couch where he initiated a sexual encounter,
and he actually ended up pleading guilty. He pled guilty
six days before the trial was scheduled to open, with
five counts of kidnapping with sexual motivation and one count
of attempt at kidnapping. Can someone please let me know

(01:24:53):
why hypnosis is kidnapping? I swear to you, I was googling.
I was in the reddits. I was trying. Maybe I
could have tried harder, Like, I don't understand.

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
I remember one time being shocked about like if you
I mean, I remember. It's like if you move someone
against their will, even within like a home, to one
room to the other, that's kidnapping. Apparently, like you don't
have to take them out anywhere. But that still doesn't
really cover what you're talking about. So I don't know. Oh, okay,
I just googled.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
I guess I don't know why I didn't reverse search
in terms of what constitutes as kidnapping. I just kept
being like, how is hipnosis kidnapping? But this makes sense. Now,
person acts with intent to prevent another's liberation, either by
secreting her whole ding in a place or here she
is not likely to be found using threatening use of

(01:25:46):
deadly physical force when that person's conscious, objective or purposes
to do so. Okay, so I think it's the liberation
of it all. Prevent another's liberation an unlawful restraint of
a person's liberty by force or show of force. Yeah, interesting,
there's no other charges, Like, I wonder if that was
like hard to like proven core that happened. I'm just

(01:26:10):
really confused. So if anyone has answers, let us know. Yeah,
at his sentencing, one victim did testify and two sentence statements,
and you know, he was like, I have remorse and regret.

Speaker 4 (01:26:21):
I don't really care.

Speaker 2 (01:26:23):
But they did get more than fifty letters sent in
of support, so don't worry. His wife, mother, sisters, friends,
church people and pastor said that he was a great
best friend.

Speaker 4 (01:26:34):
All said, this is a great guy. This is a
great guy.

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
He was just testing out his hypnosis kit that he
got for Hanukkah.

Speaker 4 (01:26:40):
It's like truly on a tape that's so wild. Whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:26:46):
He also did admit it because he pled guilty. Yeah
if he didn't, but if he wouldn't have gone to court.

Speaker 4 (01:26:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
It's church people though, because they're being like he's admitting
his sin and he's repenting, you know. Yeah, well yeah,
he basically he did admit he his familiarity with and
dexterity in hypnosis to control six women, forcing them to
tend to his sexual desires against their conscious will. So
that sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
So this former Ohio lawyer was sentenced to twelve years
in prison for hypnotizing and sexually abusing his female clients.
Michael was fifty nine when sentenced by Judge Patricia Cosgrove
in twenty sixteen, and then he was also ordered like,
even when he gets out, he has to register as
a sex defender for twenty five years. And I didn't
know this, but during this time, every one hundred and
eighty days he has to reregister for those twenty five

(01:27:33):
So it's like, shit, yeah, and obviously disbarred.

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
Uh wow, so twice a year you have to reregister down?

Speaker 2 (01:27:41):
Okay, wow, quick math? And so why didn't they just
say twice a year.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
I'm so harried.

Speaker 2 (01:27:46):
Six months he's fucking he's fucking up, but he freaks okay.
He also had six civil lawsuits and so like, because
one of his former clients goes, I spent seventeen grand
on his services while he his mother fucking hymno, oh
my god. In October twenty eighteen, ap News reports that
he was ordered to pay, but only to one client

(01:28:08):
two point three million dollars. There were three other civil
cases that were unsuccessful that I found out about in Corato.
The judge goes, this is actually unsurprising Michael Fine is
a lawyer, and even though he is now disbarred, are
no longer licensed to practice law. He fought this tooth
and nail and just did a lot of motions to
inhibit the progress of the case. And that's on Cleveland

(01:28:29):
dot com. I don't know what that is. Melissa said
that it changed her life in many ways, like it sucks,
like when we talk about the residual, like trauma. She
won't be in a room with anybody by you know,
by herself. She doesn't shut doors.

Speaker 1 (01:28:42):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:28:42):
It's like a lot of trauma.

Speaker 2 (01:28:44):
And the judge again, Patricia, I really am down with her.
She said, at the lowest point in their lives, when
they came to for help and throes of painful divorces
and custody battles, you took advantage of them. You took
advantage of their trust and faith in you sexually abusing them.

Speaker 4 (01:29:02):
And that's in the Washington Post.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
Love the Judge, Yeah, love the judge. You don't need
to learn hypnotism, you don't need to like to You
can just be nice and women will have sex with
you. You could just be a good person, like I do
think that everybody finds everybody can find someone to have
sex with them, don't need to learn hypnotism and take

(01:29:24):
advantage of people.

Speaker 4 (01:29:26):
Well, yeah, you had a wife.

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
If it's not even about sex, it's like, yeah, you
know rapists. Yeah, I wonder if they couldn't do the rape.
I wonder if it didn't go a certain way. I mean,
twelve years, I'm okay with twelve years. One of the
victims did say, you got twelve years. I got a lifetime,
so you know, yeah, finish the trauma.

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):
Twelve years would mean he's kind of out in like
the next few years, right.

Speaker 2 (01:29:50):
Yeah, And I for some reason, I was like, I
bet they fucking let him out early. But I guess not, yeah,
or yeah, maybe he changed his name.

Speaker 4 (01:29:58):
I mean, I don't fucking know. Right, there's more.

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
There's more the Jeffrey shawcase, and it's Jeffrey GEO f
fr e y if you want to, you know, if
that's what you're thinking about. This guy's a hypnotherapist, obviously
up to no good and he was like seventy when
the case came up. So again, like, I don't know
how long he's been doing all this fucked up shit,

(01:30:22):
and we're in Bingley West Yorkshire, so we're in the UK.

Speaker 1 (01:30:26):
Manchester area is where I kind of put this.

Speaker 2 (01:30:30):
Shaw used his powers to rape a vulnerable patient repeatedly.
Instead of treating her for what she was there for,
he controlled and dominated her and that having set and
like convinced her that having sex was essential to her recovery.
And this was in his home office while like, the
therapist's wife sat in a nearby room in the house.
The Guardian reports she was unaware of what's going on.

(01:30:52):
But I don't think that could really be proven, so
I don't know either way.

Speaker 4 (01:30:57):
It sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:30:57):
So the victim trusted, you know this, She paid his
fee after sessions, even when she was attacked. She was
really into the therapy. But he did not ever ask
permission to you know, for the crossing of boundaries, No consent,
none of that. The woman was from Stockport, Greater Manchester,

(01:31:18):
and said according to the Guardian, the attacks happened after
she contacted the therapist through the Yellow Pages so Old
School nineteen eighty nine. She said that during her sessions
he would talk in a soft, monotone voice, counting down
from ten, and his voice would get quieter, and she
says she lost all sense of time because there was
a very pleasant feeling of relaxation. The next thing she
remembers is doing what he said and she felt powerless.

(01:31:41):
And then the woman said, after several sessions, Shaw started
to kiss her and then later told her to remove
her clothing and did rape her. She stopped seeing him
and then went to the police only after attending a
rape crisis center ten years later. So this happened, So
she went in between nineteen eighty nineteen eighty nine. It

(01:32:01):
happens in eighty nine, she stops seeing him, doesn't fully
you know, I don't know her journey in that went
to a crisis center in nineteen ninety eight. The Crown
Prosecution Service decided not to prosecute, but then the charges
were finally brought on after the woman found an old
dress which she wore the time of her like in

(01:32:22):
the session, and there was semen that was traced back
to Shaw DNA with DNA tests very Lewinsky. Yeah, when
police talks to Shaw, he was like listen, you know,
I hypnotized her. But he denied the sextor rape, which
is classic, but it's like the the jizz is there.
He was charged with six counts of rape and one

(01:32:43):
count of indecent assault. Finally went to trial in March
two thousand. When she was on the stand, they put
a screen up between her and him because she was like,
that's scared that he would hypnotize her.

Speaker 1 (01:32:53):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (01:32:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:32:55):
So he was cleared, though unfortunately by a jury in
less than two hours after a five day trial acquit
it on all charges. I want to think about the
last guy who got a lot of jail time. I know,
I don't want to and this guy is a fraud.
He took like a college course, but he never sat
through final exams before, like setting himself up up and
this one man practice.

Speaker 4 (01:33:17):
Yeah, Like, don't go to hypnosis in a one man practice.

Speaker 1 (01:33:19):
Like I'm sitting here acting like I think it can
definitely help people quit smoking and all kinds of other shit.
But go somewhere where it's like open door or someone
else's in the room.

Speaker 4 (01:33:27):
I don't know, it's a I don't know. Honestly. The
book I read, The Easy Way to Quit.

Speaker 1 (01:33:31):
Smoking by Alan Carr, I truly feel like that got
me to quit smoking by hypnosis. It was literally just
repeating the same phrases and words like.

Speaker 4 (01:33:38):
Over and over and over again.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
But like, but it was a book, so I felt like,
you know, it was it was safe. But I don't know,
this is all really fucked up. I hate that these guys. Yeah,
people came to you for help, and like so many
people they can for you help. You took advantage of
them and it makes me sick. Ugh, stop teaching bad

(01:34:03):
guys the practice of hypnosis. Meanwhile, I'm like, can I
get hypnotized to do something that will help me? I
need that? Okay, well we're gonna have we have a guest,
so let's move on. Our guest today is an actor
you've seen on shows like Chicago, Med, Condor, and Being Human.

(01:34:27):
She's in three episodes of the currently running suits La
as well, but you know her best as the victim
of an evil hypnotist, Abby Clark. Please enjoy our chat
with Kristin Hager. What an episode?

Speaker 4 (01:34:42):
What a performance? Oh? Thank you?

Speaker 1 (01:34:45):
Tell us how you found a while?

Speaker 5 (01:34:48):
Oh yeah, I mean it's if we've shot it when
twenty seventeen?

Speaker 4 (01:34:52):
It was, I remembers March. Also, I have a weird
date thing.

Speaker 1 (01:34:56):
Cool yeah date because the episode came out in May,
so wow, I.

Speaker 5 (01:34:59):
Can't definitely it was definitely March twenty seventeen, so it
was eight years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:35:02):
And I and I and I remember enough.

Speaker 5 (01:35:06):
But also I'm like, I don't remember enough. Yeah, it's
like it was, it was. I mean, it was an
intense episode to shoot for sure. Yeah, it was an
exciting job to come along because it was an offer
which was which was great.

Speaker 4 (01:35:26):
But it was one of.

Speaker 5 (01:35:26):
Those really great things where you know, we do this
job that's really hard and you just get rejected over
and over again. You get really close to so many
jobs and you're like, well that was for nothing. But
specifically this was you know, the casting director knew me
from like a Chicago fire audition that I had done
i think like two years before. Because all of Dick

(01:35:48):
Wolfe's shows are cast by the same wonderful casting director,
Jonathan Strauss.

Speaker 2 (01:35:53):
Well, we want to get him on the pod, but
he's too busy. It's like, well, yes, exactly shows twelve shows.

Speaker 5 (01:35:58):
So so yeah, it was because of you know, it
was one of those great things where I almost got
a role on a different show and then he just
thought of me for this, and and it's also led
to some other things down the road as well, which
has been really really nice. So yeah so he so
it just came out of nowhere and I was like,
wonderful that s for you. This is great and I
and I read the script and I was like, wow,

(01:36:19):
this is what a really you know, hard challenging role
to come and do, but also like a nice, meaty
role to go and do.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
Well. Yeah it was.

Speaker 4 (01:36:30):
It was really fun.

Speaker 2 (01:36:31):
And you repeat, like there's some storylines that kind of
overlap or repeat, But this is the only hypnosis episode
that I can think of?

Speaker 1 (01:36:41):
Am I wrong? Era?

Speaker 4 (01:36:43):
It's the only hypnosis one.

Speaker 1 (01:36:44):
But there have been other sort of like spiritual gurus
that have missed, had that been, have done bad things,
but never yes, never like hypnohypnotizing someone with your link
with your language. That's like what I think, like the
neuro linguistic of it all is wild. Did you do
research about it or anything? Like yeah, I believe like
let's just go.

Speaker 4 (01:37:04):
I mean, you know what.

Speaker 5 (01:37:06):
I obviously the ayahuasca world I still find so fascinating
and it's something I would love to do at some point.

Speaker 4 (01:37:15):
But what the research I did was.

Speaker 5 (01:37:16):
Mostly about these like because I always thought like, oh, yeah,
you know, I had a bunch of friends at that
point that had done it, and most people had gone
down to Peru and places. But it was these learning
about these like urban ayahuasca sessions all over New York
that were happening that I was like, what, Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:37:32):
I didn't even know that that was happening.

Speaker 1 (01:37:34):
I thought was like, I live in La so I'm like, yeah,
people go out to the desert and do that kind
of stuff all the time.

Speaker 4 (01:37:40):
I didn't think it was.

Speaker 1 (01:37:41):
Like in the episode. I was like, is this real?
People just go to a massive loft and do iowas
go together? Like I agreed? And then that's how I felt.
Never and apparently yes, it was like, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:37:51):
On the down low.

Speaker 5 (01:37:52):
But yeah, And and what was interesting is that Stuart Townsend,
who was who was cast opposite me, is.

Speaker 4 (01:37:58):
The bad guy.

Speaker 5 (01:38:00):
We you know, we had rehearsals and then and then
afterwards we're staying in the same hotel, so so had
dinner together to discuss you know, the roles and stuff.
And he he had taken ayahuasca like twenty times, so
so you know, it was very informative about that whole
world and stuff, which was crazy. But yeah, he's like

(01:38:21):
a he's just one of those guys that that's just
what you know, they do these like over a week,
you do it like every day or something. It's great,
it's crazy. Yeah, but yeah, So he had a lot
of information about that, but no, the hypnosis stuff, now,
I just I since then, I've I've done a lot
of research because I actually had a baby two years

(01:38:44):
ago and I used hypnosis for childbirth.

Speaker 4 (01:38:47):
Really I did more I did.

Speaker 5 (01:38:50):
I got pregnant and was like, great, I don't have
a plan. I'm just gonna, you know, see how I'm feeling.
And I ended up reading a book that my mom
had got me halfway through and it was just about
like a midwife somewhere in in you know, I don't know,
the South, and and she just wrote about one hundred
women's birth stories and just you know how you just

(01:39:12):
kind of go internal and let your body do what
it's going to do and and see what happens. And
I was like, you know what, I actually grew up
in a really small town in Canada, where like women
just didn't have drugs when they.

Speaker 4 (01:39:24):
Go back in the day. So I was like, well,
I'm just gonna try this if I can.

Speaker 5 (01:39:29):
So I hired a hypno doula basically trail.

Speaker 1 (01:39:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:39:36):
I did self hypnosis for like the last two and
a half months of my pregnancy, where I would listen
to a track and I would lay down every day
for forty five minutes and just listen to this this
specifically this music that was just really calming and and
I don't know, just it was the same music over

(01:39:57):
these tracks of of you know, just self affirmations, et cetera.
And I was just like, if anything, it was just
really relaxing for me and I and I did this
for two and a half months and then and then,
like I kid you not, the day of my due date,
one am passed and my water broke and I was like,
what the fuck, Like what do I do now? And

(01:40:20):
I called my dou lau and she was like, well,
it doesn't mean anything, like you could go into labor
in twelve or thirty six hours, but lay down and
try and get some rest.

Speaker 4 (01:40:27):
And I put my track in and I.

Speaker 5 (01:40:31):
Laid down, and sure enough, like my back started aching,
and every six minutes it would ache more and more
and more, and I was like, I.

Speaker 4 (01:40:37):
Think I'm in active labor.

Speaker 5 (01:40:40):
So I woke up my husband again because he had
fallen asleep, of course, and I was like, I think
we need to get moving. And I started walking around
the house and I still had these stupid headphones in
and and like as soon as I started walking around,
it was like every four minutes, and then and then
within thirty minutes, it was every three minutes. And we

(01:41:00):
like got into the car and I was like, I
was like, I think I might have the baby in
the car. Like it was she was wild, like I
I I don't even know. I guess I transitioned from
like nine to ten centimeters in the car because my
legs were shaking, and that's what happens when you're transitioning.

Speaker 4 (01:41:17):
And by the time I got to the.

Speaker 5 (01:41:18):
Hospital and they checked me, she I was ten centimeters
dilated and she was three centimeters down.

Speaker 4 (01:41:23):
So it was like it was wild.

Speaker 5 (01:41:25):
And I went into the room and you know, pushed
for like forty five minutes and she came out.

Speaker 4 (01:41:31):
But it was just like I truly think that, I mean, it.

Speaker 5 (01:41:34):
Fucking hurt, like hell, don't like the hypnosis didn't take
the pain away, but I was able to just stay
super calm throughout the entire situation, like.

Speaker 4 (01:41:43):
I never it was They didn't.

Speaker 5 (01:41:45):
They couldn't tell how far along I was because I
was just so calm, Like it was so.

Speaker 4 (01:41:52):
Weird, Like I really felt like I was hypnotized.

Speaker 1 (01:41:54):
I think it was so wild. I'm a two time
epidural user over here. Yeah, it was just great.

Speaker 5 (01:42:00):
And had I not done this then that would have
sure been. But I would just like what I want
to see what happens, and there's something too that's cool
obvious yea, truly.

Speaker 1 (01:42:10):
Okay, So back to this, I am obsessed with the
fact that you had to do so many scenes on
the stand, like most times they just do what. I
feel like you were on the stand three different times
and then you had to basically tell your fictional boyfriend
everything you hated about him.

Speaker 4 (01:42:25):
And that was wild. It was so wild, Yeah, it was.
It was. I think we started with the stand stuff too.

Speaker 1 (01:42:34):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:42:34):
We started in the court, which is always you know,
you fly, you fly in, and then and then it's
the time change, and then you get up at four
am and you just go into a court scene. Like
I remember being really obviously nervous, but but it was
a very welcoming set really, you know, at that point,
a very well oiled machine and so everyone was.

Speaker 4 (01:42:54):
Just like it just it.

Speaker 5 (01:42:57):
It was so cool to get to come in and
especially it's like be in the courthouse and.

Speaker 4 (01:43:01):
Yeah with Star there. Yeah, so yeah, it was really
really really great job.

Speaker 5 (01:43:09):
And it was just one of those jobs that like
it's such an iconic show that getting to come in
and do it always feels surreal. And like my dad,
he's the guy that no matter what network TV show
I get an audition for, I'll call him to be like,
what's this about?

Speaker 4 (01:43:25):
What's going on? What happened last week?

Speaker 5 (01:43:27):
Because he's like watched everything cool, even the like bad stuff,
but something like Law and Order, any of them, he's obsessed.
So it's so cool to get to like go do
a show that like you know your parents are going
to love too, because you know, half the time, especially
my mom, she's like, I don't they watch everything?

Speaker 4 (01:43:47):
Of course, yeah xactly, but but but.

Speaker 5 (01:43:51):
She's very honest about like if it's something that she
actually likes. But with my dad, it's, uh, yeah, it
was one of his favorites.

Speaker 1 (01:43:58):
So it's really funny here because we hear like so
many people have watched it with their moms and their
grandma's and everything, like their whole lives and it's great
to see a dad out there getting into the SVU
and Universal View love it. Yeah, so were they always
really supportive and artsy?

Speaker 4 (01:44:15):
Well, you know, it's funny.

Speaker 5 (01:44:17):
I had mentioned I grew up in Canada, but I'm
from a very very tiny, remote gold mining town and
the closest city is five hours away. WHOA, The closest
city is Winnipeg, Manitoba as well.

Speaker 4 (01:44:29):
I don't know if you've been to Winnipeg. I haven't,
bag I haven't heard good things.

Speaker 2 (01:44:34):
I did comedy in Winnipeg and Wow, and I went
to the movies on my downtime.

Speaker 1 (01:44:39):
I actually had long lost family there that I went
to their house. Okay, yeah, actually I guess I had
a good time in Winnipeg.

Speaker 4 (01:44:47):
Amazing. So Winnipeg was the closest city. But I would
have to do that would be a nightmare. That's not
a big city that I drive hour. I didn't mean
to talk shit on Winnipeg.

Speaker 1 (01:44:56):
I just had a therapist that was from there and
she told me it has like the highest crime rate
in Canada.

Speaker 4 (01:45:00):
And it's like she was like, it's bad, it's very bad.
It's very dangerous.

Speaker 5 (01:45:05):
But that was the closest movie theater, so if I
wanted to even go to the movies, we would drive
five hours to get to the city if we wanted
to go to a mall or any fast food chains,
like I'm from the woods, that's so crazy. My mom
was the drama teacher in the only high school in town.

Speaker 1 (01:45:21):
Stop.

Speaker 4 (01:45:22):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:45:23):
Okay, so when.

Speaker 5 (01:45:25):
You ask if my parents were artsy, my mom, yes,
my dad was an electrician and and no, I mean
he did one play in high school and still likes
to talk about the fact that he stole the show.
But my mom always kind of gives me a gives
me a no, he didn't under her breath because she
was in the rival cast. They went to high school together. Oh,

(01:45:45):
I didn't start dating until afterwards. But but yeah, so
I grew up in a small town. My mom was
the drama teacher in the high school as well as
like one of the founding members of the community theater
up there, so I, you know, grew up going to
all of her plays and started doing you know, theater
when I was like six, and and then and then yeah,
moved moved to Toronto when I was eighteen and went

(01:46:09):
to a theater school.

Speaker 4 (01:46:10):
So did she direct you in the place?

Speaker 5 (01:46:12):
When I was in high school, she directed me in
a couple of times, And how was that dynamic? I
mean it was, uh, it was interesting. I never got
the lead roles. I was like, okay, thanks. Maybe that
was intentional, I don't know, but but it was. It

(01:46:32):
was it was, you know, fun but also embarrassing, like
we would do in her drama class, like improvisations together
and like I remember at one point her and I
like came up together and did this thing and it
ended up like we had to yell at each other
about something and it was just very it was like, yeah,
it was, it was, and it's it was that awkward

(01:46:55):
time of being I was probably like sixteen at that point,
so very self conscious. But but it was weird. Yeah,
it was weird to have your mom as a drama teacher.

Speaker 1 (01:47:06):
All right, But I did interrupt to So then you're
eighteen and eighteen, moved to.

Speaker 5 (01:47:11):
Toronto, got my degree in theater, and then started working
in film and TV after that. But but yeah, I
have a very supportive family for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:47:21):
And you're married to another actor, and we always like
to ask our acting couples, how is that do you
guys run auditions with each other or do you just
keep it separate, Like what's the.

Speaker 5 (01:47:34):
We Well, it's challenging. It's also great because we understand
each other and understand what each other.

Speaker 4 (01:47:42):
Is going through. But self taping is a disaster.

Speaker 5 (01:47:48):
Because I just want to like say the words and
do it, and he's and he's all.

Speaker 4 (01:47:53):
About like the setup of it.

Speaker 5 (01:47:55):
Well wait, let me get the like this is his
like how he put a mic here for me today
and this is little you know, and I just want
to get things going. And I'm the most impatient person
on the planet anyway, So we just care about different things.
And then and then yeah, it always ends in a
fight no matter what.

Speaker 4 (01:48:15):
So we try and then we're and then we like.

Speaker 5 (01:48:17):
Before we do another table, we'll be like, okay, well
let's just let's just you know, try and get along.

Speaker 4 (01:48:22):
And then it still ins in a fight.

Speaker 5 (01:48:24):
So it's it's not ideal, but it's better if we
have a friend come over and then we read with them.

Speaker 4 (01:48:29):
Yeah. Yeah, sometimes I feel like.

Speaker 1 (01:48:31):
Also when you read with another act or too, they're like,
you're you just want someone to kind of do it
regular and they're doing their own Flair and you're like, oh,
he'll do the.

Speaker 5 (01:48:39):
Voice, like if it says this person is like this actor,
he'll do the voice. And I'm like, you're doing the
voice and he's like, no, I'm not. He's like not
even aware of that he's doing it. Like stop, you're
you're you're upstaging me off camera.

Speaker 1 (01:48:52):
Oh my gosh, now he is like he was in
one of the most iconic television shows of the past
twenty years. Do people just yell badger it you guys
when you're walking down.

Speaker 5 (01:49:01):
The street all day every day, like because he's six'
four and very neat, looking like he's so noticeable that
no matter, what he can't escape. It and even like
during the pandemic when he had a mask on all the,
time he's got this really raspy voice and everyone recognizes
his voice, Too so even then he would just say
something to someone and people knew who he, Was like

(01:49:21):
it's it's really that's so.

Speaker 4 (01:49:22):
Funny it is very.

Speaker 1 (01:49:24):
Funny and it's also it's so funny when your kids are,
like how does that person know?

Speaker 4 (01:49:27):
You And you're, LIKE i don't, know don't worry about.

Speaker 2 (01:49:29):
It such a memorable name BECAUSE i don't remember any
heavy other like, friends you know Of Aaron, paul's you,
know so it's like it's a batcher.

Speaker 1 (01:49:40):
FOREVER i, know he was memorable for. Sure, yeah definitely. Definitely,
well and then you're back at The Dick wolf. Universe
you did do a bunch Of chicago met you ended
up back.

Speaker 5 (01:49:52):
THERE i, Did and so again back to This chicago fire.
Tape that's how The chicago med job came along as.
WELL i feel like this should just be my demo
scene For Chicago. Fire, no but that's that's also how
The chicago med job came. Along, uh and so so,

(01:50:15):
YEAH i. WENT i went To chicago for you, KNOW
i did fourteen. EPISODES i left the show ONCE i got.
Pregnant BUT i but, yeah it was it was also
such a well oiled machine to come. IN i think
it was like season, eight but Like fire was in
ten at that, point and OR i don't even, know
but like, again it's just he has such an enterprise

(01:50:38):
that it's really.

Speaker 4 (01:50:40):
Cool but but, yeah it was also a really a
really fun.

Speaker 1 (01:50:45):
Job that's. Awesome and now you're in like, this you're
In Suit's, la, Right SO i came in, too Suits
la to do a three episode. Arc, okay so, YEAH
i think one of them has aired so. Far very
cool because Like suit was over and then just had
this like resurgence On, netflix which is like a really

(01:51:05):
cool like you, know you just never know these shows
that are going to hit later when they hit streaming and.
Stuff and now you're in the spin off of THE La,
yeah it's very.

Speaker 4 (01:51:15):
COOL i had an auditioned for the.

Speaker 5 (01:51:17):
ORIGINAL i ended up screen testing for the original for
The Megan marko.

Speaker 4 (01:51:20):
ROLE i, know, uh and then She's Megan.

Speaker 1 (01:51:25):
Sussex, now oh, right, right you're getting that would have
changed the course.

Speaker 4 (01:51:29):
Of, history would have changed the course of it.

Speaker 1 (01:51:32):
HISTORY i also wanted to ask you you, played speaking
of like true crime and, stuff you Played leslie Van
houghton in a movie and that's really, crazy one of
The Manson Murderers.

Speaker 4 (01:51:42):
Murderouses it was A.

Speaker 5 (01:51:44):
Canadian, film uh Called Leslie My name Is evil about
About leslie Van.

Speaker 4 (01:51:50):
Houghton but it was like a kind.

Speaker 5 (01:51:52):
Of a social satire of the sixties and and the,
time so it's not what people are expecting when they watch.

Speaker 4 (01:51:59):
It it's like a, wild, weird surreal.

Speaker 5 (01:52:03):
Movie, cool but it was really cool to, Shoot AND
i don't THINK i left my house for a solid
month prepping for the movie BECAUSE i was so deeply
obsessed and and involved in Anything Charles. Manson LIKE i
watched EVERYTHING i could watch and read EVERYTHING i could,

(01:52:25):
read and it was dark and, crazy but also like
how fascinating what happened to these? People and he was
speaking of hypnosis that he was able to brainwash. Them In,
canada it's Called Leslie My name Is, evil but In,
AMERICA i think they changed the title To Manson My
name Is.

Speaker 4 (01:52:41):
Evil, yeah and she's.

Speaker 5 (01:52:45):
Out she's out and now after a, long long time
Years AND i.

Speaker 4 (01:52:51):
Said think she was eighteen when she went, in and.

Speaker 1 (01:52:54):
Yeah it's really because Like newsom tried to deny her
parole and then she they overruled, it like she appealed
it and Got AND i think she's like the First
manson member that was.

Speaker 4 (01:53:04):
RELEASED i THINK i think so, so which which makes.

Speaker 5 (01:53:08):
Sense but, yeah like it, was you, KNOW i had
tried to appeal so many times and was yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:53:15):
Denied you can't even imagine what her life would be
like after so much of it behind. Bars it's just you, know, Wow,
yeah that must have been a wild Role, yeah it.

Speaker 4 (01:53:25):
Was it. Was it was very.

Speaker 5 (01:53:29):
Also, challenging but also really you, know it's always fun
when you get to when there's so much material to, research, yeah,
project because sometimes you just go in and then you
make it up as you go and it's your own.
Thing but when when it's when you're playing a real.
Person i've had this a couple of. Times it's it's it's,
daunting but also just really cool to to have all of,

(01:53:52):
this you, know all this uh, stuff the photos that
you get To, yeah it's, uh it was, yeah really really.

Speaker 4 (01:54:04):
Cool it is. Cool it was a. Weird it's a weird,
one but it's but it's. Cool what are you doing?
Now what's?

Speaker 5 (01:54:11):
Next SO i just finished shooting suits about a month,
ago and NOW i don't know what's coming.

Speaker 1 (01:54:19):
Next I'm i'm home with the nose More. Toddler and
you looked really good on the red. Carpet was a
nice thank, you thank, you thank, you some.

Speaker 3 (01:54:28):
Girl.

Speaker 5 (01:54:29):
Thanks, yeah it's always fun to get to, go you,
know do The red. Carpets it's been a while BECAUSE
i BECAUSE i, uh you, KNOW i, mean first of,
all the world shut, down AND i feel like this
was the first event i've actually been to in five
years because also people just stopped and, yeah and the
strike and and then also BECAUSE i had a, KID

(01:54:51):
i stopped working for a bit AND i, yeah and
Now i'm you, know clawing my way. Back if you, were,
well a two year old is holding onto my.

Speaker 1 (01:54:59):
Leg if you were to come back TO, svu what
kind of character would you want to?

Speaker 4 (01:55:04):
Play you've been the? VICTIM i, KNOW i want to
play a.

Speaker 5 (01:55:08):
LAWYER i NEVER i feel LIKE I i'd love to
play a, lawyer putting it out, THERE i see.

Speaker 4 (01:55:15):
It, yeah what are you on? Suits on?

Speaker 5 (01:55:18):
Suits i'm An i'm an actress.

Speaker 4 (01:55:21):
Whose husband.

Speaker 5 (01:55:23):
Uh is a famous producer and he ends up on
trial for murdering his best friend WHO i was having an.
Affair way, Whoa, okay there's layers, layers so it will
she stand by him or? Not and and the next
episode that will air his trial, begins So i'm back
in the.

Speaker 1 (01:55:43):
Courthouse, okay, okay, YEAH i would love you as a
lawyer On law And ORDER.

Speaker 4 (01:55:49):
Svu i'd love.

Speaker 1 (01:55:50):
It prosecutor, Defense, oh prosecutor probably all?

Speaker 4 (01:55:55):
Right they do they do love a blonde a Da,
yeah you, know we'll.

Speaker 1 (01:56:03):
See oh this was great, though thanks for taking the
time to talk to. Us thank, you and great job
in the.

Speaker 4 (01:56:11):
Episode thank. You wow that was.

Speaker 2 (01:56:17):
WILD i just, honestly what keeps haunting me is the
five hours and the biggest city Is. WINNIPEG i mean
five hours to go to a, movie to go to a.

Speaker 4 (01:56:28):
Movie it's, like that's a that's a that's an.

Speaker 1 (01:56:31):
ISOLATION i can't even, Fathom, like you, KNOW i don't
even Think i've ever been to a place that's that
far from other. STUFF i don't, Know, LIKE i Guess
i've driven cross, country BUT i keep. MOVING i Don't
i've never like. Stopped but, wow that is. Isolated but
she seems fun and that was.

Speaker 2 (01:56:52):
Fun i'm glad we're getting guests, back getting in the,
room talking to the artists.

Speaker 1 (01:56:56):
Acts she seems like she's gonna get. Back she's got
to be back on our radars now she's in Suits
la and, yeah she was.

Speaker 2 (01:57:04):
Cool, wait you know, what people keep trying to get
on our podcast And i'm, like you need to get ON.

Speaker 4 (01:57:09):
Svu who do you think you? Are it's also just fun.

Speaker 2 (01:57:13):
CASTS a girl this week was, like oh my, god
you KNOW i watch you should have me On And i'm, like,
well you clearly don't.

Speaker 4 (01:57:18):
Listen don't. Listen, yeah which is, fine it's just.

Speaker 1 (01:57:22):
Fine but sometimes a publicist will write us and be, like,
Oh i'd love to get my client on your.

Speaker 4 (01:57:27):
Show i'm, like do you know what it's?

Speaker 1 (01:57:28):
About you should just do a Basic google and if
you know that your client has not been ON, svu
we would not have your clients on the.

Speaker 4 (01:57:34):
Podcast it's really very.

Speaker 2 (01:57:37):
PICKY i, mean unless unless you're trying to save abortion
rates In.

Speaker 1 (01:57:40):
America we have an. Exception that's the only guest we've ever, had,
right who's been. On and that was our.

Speaker 2 (01:57:48):
Attempt, yeah and then one time we didn't do a
true crime and it was to get the late Great
Bob saga, On so it was we know we were doing,
here we.

Speaker 1 (01:57:58):
Know what you're. Doing yeah, yeah, yeah but that episode
is fucking, crazy AND i, like not trust these.

Speaker 4 (01:58:06):
PEOPLE i. Know it's, like it's just and bring a.
FRIEND i don't KNOW i, was.

Speaker 1 (01:58:15):
But bring a, friend bring a. GALPAL i don't. Know
you don't need to bring your boring. Boyfriend but also
it Was Charlie's theren's. Ex what's, yeah what's your? Deal?

Speaker 2 (01:58:23):
Yeah why have to see? Him, yeah that's. ALL i
know him from his being at two tan on a
red carpet one. Time, ABSOLUTELY i was, like how DO
i know this? Guy WHEN i googled, IT i, Go,
yep the guy that was like With shirley's their Own.

Speaker 4 (01:58:36):
Forever, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:58:37):
Totally Anne hathaway was the Movie snake today AND i
did get top eight percent of, players but then it's
moved throughout the day and Now i'm only a top twenty.
Percent but oh my, GOD i was really excited for
like ten.

Speaker 4 (01:58:52):
Minutes wow for.

Speaker 1 (01:58:55):
Translations thank.

Speaker 2 (01:58:57):
YOU i wish you got into. It BUT i can't
beat these. FREAKS i think people are. CHEATING i really
think people are. CHEATING i don't trust. IT i don't trust.
It the other side of. Heaven who knows that? Movie that's?
BULLSHIT i don't.

Speaker 4 (01:59:09):
KNOW i don't. Know you. KNOW i have a.

Speaker 1 (01:59:11):
Friend i'm actually having dinner with him. Tonight he's my
friend from summer. Camp he if you tell him your,
birthday he can tell you all the movies that have
premiered on your. Birthday he's like his mind, works he.
GOES i kind of see time as like a circle
and he's like he LITERALLY i told him my birthday
once and they're not big movie like he was, like,

(01:59:31):
Oh september, twentieth he was Like bogus Starring Whoopee.

Speaker 4 (01:59:34):
GOLDBERG i was, like, What, like he tells me the.

Speaker 1 (01:59:36):
Most random movies that have opened on my on your,
birthday he basically in the calendar just backs it up
to the last time you. Move your birthday was like
on A, friday and then he knows like what opens
Every friday of like every. Year it's a wild Rain
man esque quirk of. His Maybe i'll see. Tonight what
are the latest When i've had Some fridays Since, well it's.

Speaker 2 (01:59:53):
So funny BECAUSE i put on Movie snake as you were,
talking AND i was looking at a poster Of interstellar
as you were talking about. Time i'm going in a
circle for this. Man Oh i've never Seen. Interstellar oh
it's about.

Speaker 1 (02:00:06):
Time, Oh casey just gave the maham.

Speaker 2 (02:00:10):
Signal, No BUT i was, really, Yeah i'm not going
to talk about. MOVIES i really have to find a new.
INTEREST i truly talk about the same few. Things my
soul psychical teacher has. Noticed she's one of the receptionists,
too is, like you should probably come here for, free,
Right i'm LIKE i talk about it all the.

Speaker 4 (02:00:25):
Time he, goes, NO i, KNOW i see, It.

Speaker 1 (02:00:31):
Like throw me a.

Speaker 4 (02:00:32):
Bone, yeah CAN i get like a promotional? Credit Jesus.

Speaker 1 (02:00:37):
Well one THING i wanted to sort of point out
from the episode to day THAT i don't really feel
like we touched on WAS i did a little bit
more digging into neural linguistic, programming and it is it
is like different than just straight up. Hypnosis like neural
linguistic programming focus is more on like the words that
you're hearing and less on putting you into like a full.

(02:00:59):
Trance AND i think they made that they kind of
interchanged hypnosis AND nlp as it's called in this, episode but.

Speaker 4 (02:01:11):
They are different.

Speaker 1 (02:01:12):
Things and actually we could just hoperate into what Would
Sister peg do because for this, week or what Would
Sister peg do which is our weekly segment where we
direct you to, resources, charities you, know documentary something to
give you more. INFORMATION i wanted to give a little
bit more information about neural linguistic programming because when you google,
it it is kind of giving Scam like a lot

(02:01:34):
of the top results when you google it are from
people that are practicing it that are like come to
my therapy.

Speaker 4 (02:01:39):
Place this is why it's.

Speaker 1 (02:01:40):
Great AND i found out that like these two guys
invented it in the seventies Named, Richard Wayne, bandler And John,
grinder they Founded neural to, me, yeah it was in the,
seventies and it was an attempt at it was another
approach to, therapy they called. It and but it's widely
considered to be a pseudo, science even THOUGH i think

(02:02:01):
there are probably like elements of it that makes, sense like,
Visualization like there's all kinds of elements that make sense in,
IT i don't think as a. Whole it's from WHAT
i was, Reading i'm, like why is there not one
like legitimate website.

Speaker 4 (02:02:14):
That talks about how it's good and. Works it sounds like.

Speaker 2 (02:02:22):
The like, defense like the WHEN i was looking at.

Speaker 4 (02:02:25):
Parental, oh parental.

Speaker 2 (02:02:27):
Alienation, yeah and HOW i just kept finding like bogus
law offices trying to like help.

Speaker 1 (02:02:33):
Rid you guys exactly the same vibe That i'm, got
because it's like everything's, like, no this is, great and
here's HOW i KNOW i practice. It you, Know Like
i'm like not finding enough facts and a lot of
the facts are like actually in medical journals or the
studies and psychological studies and. Journals So i'm not gonna
be totally the source for, this BUT i wanted to

(02:02:53):
point you to an article on healthline dot com because
that seems like the most legit THING i could. Find
it breaks down all the different tens of neural linguistic,
programming but it also points to the many studies that
finds that its benefits are largely anecdotal and not supported by.
Science so if you want to learn a little bit
more ABOUT nlp, therapy what it, is and just in
case it's, not, like, yeah what it is and what it's,

(02:03:16):
not and just in case somebody tells you about it
and you're, like that sounds, Amazing that sounds like just
What i'm looking. For just you, know look into like
what the full picture of it. Is and, again just
the fact that there is no full picture readily available
on the internet makes me feel Like i'm getting my
little Scam spidey senses. Tingling also a not so fun,
Fact Richard, bandler one of the, founders did go to

(02:03:38):
trial for the nineteen eighty six murder of a sex
worker in his, home but he was. Acquitted he said
it was another guy in his home that shot this
woman to.

Speaker 4 (02:03:46):
Death so you, know just. Stop, yeah just a cool.

Speaker 1 (02:03:51):
Character so ANYWAY i thought, pedophile but, YEAH i guess just.

Speaker 4 (02:03:56):
Murderer.

Speaker 1 (02:03:57):
Yeah, anyway The healthline article will be LinkedIn On instagram
stories and our show, notes you know the.

Speaker 2 (02:04:04):
Deal, yeah my Friend marcia said that she could see
me being susceptible to joining a.

Speaker 1 (02:04:11):
Cult absolutely.

Speaker 2 (02:04:12):
No what she because of my love Of Soul cycle
and she's, LIKE i can see you getting into.

Speaker 4 (02:04:18):
IT i, go, well, NO i Think i'd get out
before it got.

Speaker 1 (02:04:20):
Scared if one person at Soul cycle said something that
went against something that you believe, in you would be,
LIKE i Love Soul cycle until fucking this person said
diet coca, shit and THEN i was. Out you, know
like you not that, frivolous but like you think for,
yourself and you would absolutely be out of a cult
the minute that they asked you to brand your. Vagina
you'd be, Like i'm, gone you.

Speaker 3 (02:04:41):
Know?

Speaker 4 (02:04:41):
Wow, Yeah, Marcia I'LL dm her that and join.

Speaker 2 (02:04:47):
Us next week we will be doing Truth embargo from
season twenty, five episode, two and Hopefully i'll get a
response From luigi's Lawyer, Karen.

Speaker 1 (02:04:58):
And until, then thank you guys so much for listening
and good Night That's Messed up as An Exactly right.
Production if you have compliments you'd like to give us
or episodes you'd like us to, cover shoot us an
email It That's messed uppod at gmail dot. Com follow

(02:05:21):
the podcast On instagram At That's Messed Up pod and
On twitter At Messed Up, pod and follow us personally
At Kara klank and at Glitter. Cheese as, always please
see our show notes for sources and more.

Speaker 2 (02:05:33):
Information thank you so much to our senior Producer casey
O'Brien and our associate Producer Christina, chamberlain and to.

Speaker 1 (02:05:40):
Our Mixer John bradley and our guest Booker Patrick, cottner and.

Speaker 2 (02:05:44):
To Henry kaperski for our theme, song And Carly Geen
andrews for our.

Speaker 4 (02:05:48):
Artwork thank you

Speaker 1 (02:05:49):
To our executive Producers georgia Hard, Start Karen, Kilgareff Daniel,
kramer and everybody At Exactly Right media dot dun

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Kara Klenk

Liza Treyger

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