Terrorized w/ Tarek Bishara

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies. These episodes are based on These are our stories.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
Done done.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yay, that's messed up an SVU podcast. We're here with
another episode. My name is Lisa Traeger.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
And I'm Kara Klank and every week we talk a
s V episodes crimes. They're based on interview hilarious and
talented guests from the show.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Ye sometimes not that, sometimes very serious, sometimes pretty serious.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
That's true, it's hilarious. Just popped out of my mouth.
But I wouldn't say that. That's all actually the norm,
I know, but interesting, we have very serious. We have
a lot of interesting interviews coming up as well. So
you know, if you were thinking of quitting the pod,
don't do it.

Speaker 4 (01:07):
This isn't the.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Time and I do have to do am. I hope
you're listening. I was at the Moontower Festival the last
night of the fest. I mean, that's a mistake for
any audience member. We've been drinking free booze for four days.
We're tired, we're done. And I did meet a listener
in the bathroom and she's like, I came here to
see you, and I was like, honey, you picked the

(01:29):
wrong show.

Speaker 4 (01:30):
And it was a bar show.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
They kept all the TVs on, like WrestleMania was on
championship games. They would refuse to turn them off. This
is for the festival. I went up first. I did
maybe seven minutes. I don't think there was a joke
in there. And so if you are listening, I'm sorry
you went to such an but the show was actually
called unhinged.

Speaker 4 (01:51):
It it was called unhinged. Well you got what you
paid for, literally, so they got an uninched show.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
But I just wanted to say thank you for coming
and I apologize for my unprofessionalism.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
That's really fun.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
I saw in like more, you know, more more hinged. Yeah,
so you know, I ran into some cuties.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
I saw a listener at the Hermiceo, lovely guy who
spotted me with my fucking kids at the Hermiceo.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
And which is a barm ceo is not a bar,
it's a babysitting sir.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
It's a it's a full it's a full romper room.
If you go before, if you go in the daylight hours.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
I'm in the staff, Like I am interested in the
staff because they're obviously making money that they wouldn't make,
you know, because when I used to go, I would
type there and it was empty. I would go to
the Hermiceo and tippity tap to nobody.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
Well, now, yeah, what is it.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Some of the bartenders from the Hermiceo have spun off
and opened their own place called Sam's Place that's over
on a little bit closer to Figaroa and it's very
hip and there. I went there with my friend and
this bartender who used to be like, you gotta keep
your kids out of the bar to me one time,
and I was like, do you think I want them

(03:11):
in the bar. I'm chasing them. I am literally running
after them. They are terrorists, Like I don't know apropo
of today's episode. I was like, I'm like, I absolutely
don't want my kids in your dark bar. I'm grabbing
them by the shirt collar and dragging them out, like
And I saw him, and he's one of the guys
that runs this new place. He looked happy as a clam.
He looked so happy to be out of the robber room.

(03:32):
And I'm happy for him. I think that should be.
I think you should have to work at the first
bar as your JV. That's your warm up, and then
you get to move up to the hip cool bar
where it's like hot babes and like natural wine.

Speaker 5 (03:45):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
That's what I think the trajectory has to be. He
looked so happy. He gave me a huge smile. He
was so nice to me and my friend. I was like,
you love me without a kid, and that makes complete
sense to me. And yeah, but I had just gotten
back from Florida with my kids for five days.

Speaker 4 (04:02):
Lovely little trip we took together.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
But I was with them for you know, five full
days by myself, and I had to wake them to jarsyou.
He didn't my sister I didn't master met me down there,
so we Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
It was cute.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
And and then my parents, my mom ended up being
down there and my dad joined like on the last day.

Speaker 4 (04:22):
So like, I had a lot of family done there,
so it was fun.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
I didn't I didn't end up finding a place to
watch drag Race, but it was fine.

Speaker 4 (04:29):
I watched it when I got home. It's just listen.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
I loved the performances, the outfits, the looks like I
had such a good time. It just was a little
obvious who was going to win. Yeah, and I missed
the reunions. I miss a little tip for tat let's
hit a chat, Like I'm annoyed, Like maybe I.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Think they should like add that more into the They're
trying to make it part of the Lolla Perusa, but
it's like not enough. They're trying to make people have
side combos.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
And like you know, reconcile and stuff.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
But I think I just saw Jules fucking knocked it
out of the park in the reunion knocked it out,
I mean for the finale, knocked.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
It out of the park, like killing. She looked great.
I loved her first performance. But that's the thing with
the reveals, you could tell she was focused on the
reveals and un zipping, and you know, it was great.
I wouldn't be able to do any of that, but
it was. It was just like stop on zipping, stop looking,

(05:26):
stop thinking about what you're going to take off nex
But the.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
Song from what we saw happened to Lydia this season.

Speaker 6 (05:32):
You know.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
But then also with Anya, I'm like, can you have
one review? I'm like, you can't take.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
Off the Colone a little something, But no, I thought Jules.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Knocks out of the park and she's about to have
an incredible They're both about to have an incredible career.

Speaker 4 (05:44):
I mean everybody.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah yeah, but Lexie also like in her first performance
in her head and you can tell though she was thinking,
she was thinking she wasn't free, and there's like, you know.

Speaker 4 (05:58):
But I did like her number I love. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah, it's just Jewels was magnificent in that first performance. Yeah,
it's like so smooth, so silly, so everything.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
You know.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
I like, again, who do would you buy tickets for? Like,
if Jewels was coming near me, I would buy tickets.
I would go see her, yeah, you know, but I
would go see Anya too. You know, I would absolutely
go see Anya. There's a lot of you know, everybody's
talking shit online.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
Wait what are they saying? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Well, everybody's like, oh, Anya was boring in the finale.
But it's like she won the season and Jewels won
the finale. It's like you have to decide, like what
who wins the show?

Speaker 4 (06:35):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (06:36):
And like my friend pointed out, like Sasha Valure's reveal
or whatever that happened, that was so like just out
of the park, out of nowhere, like crazy that it
was like undeniable. And I feel like they you know
that was it wasn't like undeniable. We have to give
it to jewels, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (06:58):
No, a.

Speaker 4 (07:01):
Bit of bagel? Do you never me? You never learn?

Speaker 2 (07:07):
I know, why don't I wake up just a little earlier.
It's so warm, it's so beautiful in here.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Oh that looks like a gorgeous Podega bagel.

Speaker 4 (07:15):
It is.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
And I got recognized at my coffee shops today, so
then all the staff knows who they're messing with, Jake,
and they never messed with me.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
They're all so nice.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
But a woman ran to me, going I love you
and hugged me, and I'm like, I'm getting a Coopri
coffee tomorrow.

Speaker 4 (07:28):
I sense it. Wait drag race.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Oh, when Rue announced that they're all gonna get a tip,
Lexi revealed did her reveal? She did her Cabra reveal.
I really liked that as well. That was really funny.
It's just such a death because it's like, you know,
this say is over, then pit stuff's over, then fashion
photo reviews over, and I'm like, wait, it's like all
three and one. I know. Raven and Raja said they

(07:57):
already filmed the whole neck for all, so we're gonna
see them soon.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
I think all start.

Speaker 5 (08:02):
That's weeks.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, yeah, and that's I think I might be long
because it's like a it's like a fucking March Madness
style bracket thing.

Speaker 4 (08:09):
But it was fun.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
It was a great season with nice light drama, nothing
too hard. I mean, I've cried. I love the parents episode.
You know, I thought it was a great season, but
I for sure Anya was gonna win.

Speaker 4 (08:24):
I wasn't born.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
But by the end it was the same choreo over
and over.

Speaker 4 (08:28):
But the song is long.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Like I get what people are saying, if that's what
they're saying, yeah, but I also get what some people
are saying, which I feel too.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Is like I miss when it was like at the
Ace Hotel theater. Like I missed when it was like
in a big theater and it felt like a special event.
This is just kind of like a finale and they
bring in an audience and then they keep cutting to
the same like four attractive people in the audience the
entire time, Like that's it, you know, Like I want to.

Speaker 4 (08:53):
I like it. But at the same time, I have
friends who have.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Gone to those finale tapings and say that they're torturous,
like they're ten hours, and like maybe it's faster to
have it just do it as in the studio where
like they have everything in place.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Who fucking then I think it was Monet who said
this that was funny on uh pitstop that Sam Starr's
family was like a black family at graduate at a
high school graduation. But they were like losing their minds.
Yeah right, thing they looked angry watching her perform. They
were like fuck yes, like this is so mad. How
good she was doing? So that was really cute.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
So my kids are getting way better on the airplane
and watching their own shit. It's a lot easier. And
I got to watch two movies on the airplane, granted
with a lot of pausing.

Speaker 4 (09:42):
But I saw this movie Blink twice. Have you seen that?

Speaker 6 (09:46):
No?

Speaker 4 (09:46):
But I know it's Zoe Kravitz.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, you know Channing Tatum famously who follows me.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
So yeah, oh famously.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
I forgot, but I didn't. I didn't see it, so
tell me more. It's super it's good.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
I thought it was really good, and I'm actually surprised
it didn't get more. Like I went online and was
like it was well reviewed, Like I think it has
like an eighty percent on Rotten Tomatoes.

Speaker 4 (10:09):
You know, like it's like it's very beautiful.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
It's very like like they're on an island for most
of the movie.

Speaker 4 (10:16):
You know, like it's fucked up. Like I bring it
up because it's fucked up.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
And it has like themes that I feel like we
see in SVU all the time, you know, themes about
you know, men, treatment of women, and like I don't
want to give away too much, but like it's there's
a lot of good twists too, Like it's really good.

Speaker 4 (10:35):
I think you would like it. I think you should
watch it.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Then I watched this other movie that I never fucking
heard of called Skincare with Elizabeth Banks.

Speaker 4 (10:43):
I have seen it, so seen it.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, we're both flying Delta bit I'm true, that's true. Yeah,
but it's like I never even heard of it, and
I'm a big I love Elizabeth now because I saw
a billboard of it and I went, oh my god,
I have to see it. And then someone next to
me was like, Wow, you're really taken by Billboard because
I guess I can, and so I go, yeah, no,
I am, and the cover is good. It's a Weirdoh

(11:07):
it's weird. It's a weird movie. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
It's like I read a review that was basically like
the script needed work, but Elizabeth Banks is so compelling,
and that's kind of what I felt about it. I
was like, I don't know if the movie's good, but
I like watching her, you know.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, and I liked those twists and turns too. Yeah,
it was crazy that movie.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
But anyway, I just I never I never taken any
new media, so I was like, I came prepared to
talk about these two new movies that I saw, but oh, also,
really quick, I just want to do a shout out
to a listener that wrote us a message that she's
running the London Marathon and she's going to be listening
to us while she runs the London Marathon. I don't

(11:47):
know if this is coming out, and we've already missed
the marathon, but I'm just here to tell you, run, bitch,
get your ass and gear, get to that finish line.
You got it. Good work.

Speaker 4 (11:58):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
I have something that So I met someone in Austin
her name is Madison Madison McGee, and she has a
podcast called Ice Cold Case.

Speaker 4 (12:07):
Have you heard about this? No? She helps she's trying
to solve her dad's murder.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
What. Yeah, And she's like talks to suspects. It's in
seasons and she's you know, with cops, it's all of it.
But it's Ice Cold Case and she's trying to solve
her dad's murder. Wow. Telling me that she met like
a suspect and they ended up hugging. But it might
be him, and so I definitely want to listen to it.
But yeah, I'm excited. That's cool.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
And the website looks very professed. I mean the success
La Jerry.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
Yeah. Cool.

Speaker 6 (12:39):
Damn.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
I hope she figures it out. I know, I know.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Meanwhile, I watched I had to get her a shout out.
I watched the whole Karen Reid documentary on HBO Max.
I have to go over the break, like over the break.
I mean, I was, like, you know, watching with my
sister who had already seen it, but watched it again
with me because she's so obsessed with the Karen Reid case.
It is a wild fucking case. You don't know anything
about it really.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
I know, I know some about it, I just didn't
I haven't watched it yet, so but people everyone brings
it up to me.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Of course, yeah, you're gonna die when you see it.
Like why do you keep going did she do it
or not? I don't think she did it, first of all.
I don't think she did it second of all. Just
to like a synopsis for those of you that maybe
have no idea what we're talking about. This is a
crime that happened a few years ago in Boston area, Canton,
mass And basically this girl and her boyfriend, who is
a Boston cop. He goes into a house, he doesn't

(13:31):
come out of the house, and she goes, fuck you,
and she leaves all of the people. Then he's found
the next morning dead in the snow or dying in
the snow. And he dies soon after on the front
of the house. And everybody thinks she backed her car,
hit him with her car and left him there to die.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
They were all wasted.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Everybody in the house is a cop or a or
a fucking atf agent or like there's like federal agents.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
Like everybody there is like cops. They own the town.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
They're like corrupt and there's so much fucking sketchy information.
My thing is, worst case, even if she did hit
him with her car, I think it was manslaughter. Like
I don't think that you could say that she saw
him backed into him on purpose left in there, like
that doesn't seem like the like what happened. So I think,
if anything, it's manslaughter. But I don't think she hit

(14:20):
him with the car. There's no there's not enough evidence,
and there's a lot of evidence that is really fucking shady.

Speaker 4 (14:26):
So why does the retrial just start? Why was there
a mistrial?

Speaker 1 (14:29):
There was a mistrive because the jury literally could not
come to it to conclusion that half of them thought
that she did it and half of them thought or
I don't know what the exact like breakdown was of percentages,
but like they could not, Like the judge gave them
days and days and they kept coming back saying.

Speaker 4 (14:43):
We are deadlocked.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
So now there's going to be another trial that just started,
and it's turned into a full spectacle in this area.
Like when you go to the courthouse, it's half people
in pink holding signs that say free Karen read and
half people in blue that say justice for John, and
like it's.

Speaker 4 (15:01):
Justice for John. Doesn't mean Karen did it. That's one
of the friends, you know what I.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Mean exactly, And I think it's it's also I actually
had to call my sister out a little bit on
some ingrained misogyny. I was like, she was like, well,
the woman does act really cocky and stuff, and I'm like, yeah,
we're expecting people to act normal in not normal situations,
like she's fighting for her life. It's like we somebody

(15:25):
said that on this podcast, right, or who said that
is on an ice cold fact.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
No, it was the prosecutor and the girl in the box,
Caroline Stam's case, right, that's.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Right, So like exactly, like I'm like, this is the
same as like this girl I went to college with.
Remember I famously was on Dateline. She went on all
these talk shows and she was stoic, and everybody was like,
she fucking did it. People expect, especially women, to act
a very specific way, and Karen Reid is more than
you're hysterical. Yeah, And they are like, she didn't even

(15:58):
react in court this and that. It's like she's looking
down the barrel of spending her life in jail. She's
probably terrified, Like the way she's handling it. You might
not like it, but that doesn't mean anything, you know.
And my sister was actually like, oh, I didn't even
think about that. You're right, that is like a lot
of misogyny, like because I was like, everybody's just I
think people are judging her innocence and guilt. They didn't

(16:19):
have a bad relationship, she didn't have a motive to
murder this guy.

Speaker 4 (16:22):
They literally and.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
We know not to trust the police. Wasted cops. Yeah,
more investigating into them.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
The craziest part there are all these phone calls between
the cops, their wives, all these people from the party.
They all get on the stand and claim that they're
butt dialing each other. They're all claiming that their butt
dials saying that on the stand, like there's there's text
messages from the trooper who is leading the case going

(16:54):
with his friend going is she hot and him going yeah,
she's hot, weird fall river accent though, no ass like
rating her body. The woman who's the suspect in the
case that you're the lead trooper on. They call him
out on the stand, They make him they make him
like read the text or they read the text to him.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
It's fucking wild. There's so many good.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Twists, Like it's five episodes, I think, and it's uh.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Well, because I also just got Michelle McNamara's book finally,
so yeah, you know, and that's gonna that's gonna take
at least a.

Speaker 4 (17:23):
Year for me.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
I mean I read that when it came out, and
it took me a while. I mean, like, but that's
got and that's got Paul holes all over it. Our
line now Paul holes.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
But I speaking of cases, I got definitely have to
watch that.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
We're recording this.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Luigi has trial in two days, one pm on Friday.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
I will be gone again.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Oh but last week Pennsylvania, you know, the defense attorney
did all these motions for the evidence to be thrown out.
They missed their deadline. The prosecution truly missed their deadline
to respond. But of course they're gonna get ext Like,
no one is gonna follow through that. But I've met
a lawyer in Austin when I was there for Moontower,
and we talked a lot about the case, and I

(18:06):
was just saying, and she goes, they're breaking all these
Brady violations by not handing over evidence and all this stuff.
But she said, that's why the terrorism charge is there,
because if the terrorism charge goes, you don't have to
follow anyone's human rights or civil right, you know what
I mean, Like, Oh, that's why they're doing it. They
know it's not terrorism. But if if you make it
a terrorism case, you get to break all these rules

(18:28):
that you can't if it's just like a regular try.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
Yeah, that's yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
So that's something that I learned from her, because I
had all these questions because you know, the court documents.

Speaker 4 (18:39):
Are I figured.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
I mean, I'm like, it's on top of that, it's
also just like a fucking make him a poster child
for like you know, you know they're trying to make
they're trying to make vandalizing a tesla a terrorist act,
so you know they're they're thrown around terrorism real loose
these days, which is very apropo of today's episode.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
But I guess person on a governor's house isn't terror?

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Not terrors?

Speaker 4 (19:04):
Weird trying to kidnap the governor of Michigan, Like, is
that terrorism?

Speaker 2 (19:09):
So strange that that's not, and so strange that our
government's you know, our president's so into anti Semitism, but
not when it's the first night of passover and the
governor is fleeing his home. But you know, my god,
picker choose, picker, choose. We did really good for a while,
the interest, Yeah, the American except you started the Valley.

Speaker 4 (19:31):
No, I haven't, I haven't, is it is it? I missed.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
I missed almost all my Bravo last week while I
was gone, except I watched the last reunion.

Speaker 4 (19:39):
I feel sad the way garcel went out.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
I mean, I'm good she left, but I just think
it's like she was a great, a great housewife, and
it just sucks. She goes out on this note and
Sutton and none of them will ever get her. They
will never look in word.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
Didn't even stand up for her.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
No Ston, And then going back to the green room,
going we were supposed to do supper. Why didn't garcels
sit and wait for me while I'm taking photos and
talking shit about her with all these people that don't
like her.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
I don't know, It's it's ridiculous. I hate the word supper. Oh,
I know, she sucks.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
They all suck, and they a oh I've had it
much worse. Yeah, and you all run off crying all
the time, and you're always late, So the fact that
you're saying anything about her being unprofessional is crazy.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
She's worked more than all of you combined.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Kyle looked like a fucking high school me trying to
hide the fact that I had a party while my
parents were out of town, like that entire reunion, like.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
I'm not okay.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, she just looked like a fucking like unable to
do a convincing lie one time, like she could not
lie she could, she was trapped by every question like
it was wild to watch.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Okay, but yeah, I just thank god Garcia chose herself
and said, I don't need this.

Speaker 4 (20:54):
I don't need this.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
I don't need to be around people who do not
like me, do not want to understand me, are so
cold to me. Nothing, everything's brushed aside, even with Andy,
and it is like none of them want to see it.
It's all just like, well I've had to answer, and
it's like okay, m hmm, well she's gone, so yeah,
have fun, have fun.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
While she is like it's always what about ism, It's like,
well you're feeling you all run off, you all cry
and run off and threw yeah yeah, yeah, like you
know what.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
I mean none of them are professional. That's why they're
on this fucking show. And Garcel's gonna go get real jobs. Now, yeah,
I think it is a real job.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
I love. I mean it is a bit. She's gonna
get acting jobs, you know, and producing.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Oh, I do have one more thing, so you know,
we always have a split screen because we have notes.
We have the zoom and we have notes, and I
have three tabs open that are all Tetris, the same
Tetris website. It's had a hold on me now again
for too long, but someone told me that if something
traumatic and awful happens to you, the first thing you
should go do not the first, but you should immediately

(21:58):
start playing Tetris because I guess it helps. I never
know how to say the word apartmentalized, department, Yeah, parentalized
your trauma and stuff, and then it like helps you
figure shit out. So if something awful happens to you,
you should be playing Tetris.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
I literally downloaded Tetris to my phone three days ago. WHOA,
isn't that crazy. I've never had it on my phone.
I just downloaded it and was like, I keep getting
targeted for all these like really high death ads you know,
like where the blocks look really three D and like
it looks really satisfying to watch the lines like crush
and go away. So I was like, you know what,

(22:32):
I'm not buying one of these, but I'm gonna, like
fucking just download regular Tetris. And the other day I
played it. After being with my kids for a week,
I just was on my couch. I just played Tetris
for like half an hour.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
Trauma. That's my trauma.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Also, so I was on Mark Marin's podcast, and obviously
I know it's a really popular podcast, and I know
it's like a big deal.

Speaker 4 (22:54):
It was something I've wanted to.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Do for a long time, but the amount of people
that have written to me is insane.

Speaker 4 (22:59):
I didn't realize this popular.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
And me and him named names, We talked shit, people
got strays that did not deserve it, and I am like, oh,
oh no.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
We're not gonna do it. Got clean up on Aisle four.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Some people are reaching out like oh my god, thanks
for saying my name or like that was so nice,
and then other people are like, oh my god, They're
like why'd you hit?

Speaker 4 (23:22):
And I was like, that's so fucking funny.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
I know it's it's so silly, but he's just he
was just he's like me, you know, he's messy as well.
So we we had some fun, but.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
I like, I could honestly see it going either way
of YouTube getting along.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
No, And right away he goes, yeah, I always see you,
but I ignore you or like we've never talked. I go, yeah,
maybe we'll stop ignoring each other. We truly make eye
contact and don't acknowledge each other for years, for years,
So you are right. But I got to pet his
cats and he was amazing and like, it was you
really and.

Speaker 4 (23:59):
You were in the garage? Was this when you were
in La?

Speaker 6 (24:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (24:02):
The garage? Yeah yeah yeah?

Speaker 2 (24:04):
But yeah, so so he went to a hotel to
meet with like mel Brooks, you know, but I think
it's garage unless you're Obama, you.

Speaker 4 (24:12):
Know, I gotta go to the garage.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah no, I didn't know if it was maybe like
zoom or something. But yeah, wow, well that's cool. I
met him last a Christmas ago and he was really nice.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
But for five minutes, yeah, he's like, I don't know.
I definitely like got the chalk. I understand why he's like,
you know, getting the fuck young women.

Speaker 4 (24:29):
I guess. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
My friend is a longtime listener and very beautiful woman,
and she's like, I love Mark Marin like I want to.
I want to tell him that I think I could
fix him, like, you know, like she like loves it.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
No, I've been really hot. Women have been like, oh
my god, how was he? I go, very charming, I understand,
I understand. The people I like totally get it. And
his house is built for the cats. It's like all
for the cats. I go, Wow, the cats really room
this place.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah, like oh yeah, trick, so, oh my god, Wait,
that's so funny that you guys talk shit hilarious.

Speaker 4 (25:01):
Well, well we're getting started. We're gonna get started.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Go to you know, go to That's messed up live
dot com if you want to check out any of
our merch or you can go if you scroll down
to Liza's website, that takes you to all her tour dates,
and she's got a bunch of tour dates coming in.

Speaker 4 (25:15):
And now we're here.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
I'm sorry I had to postpone San Francisco.

Speaker 4 (25:19):
We have a new date.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
It's gonna be November sixth, seventh, and eighth, so I
will be there soon. I think they're still going to
refund you because it's like too long to hold people's money,
But just buy him again if you're in town in November.
Sorry about that, But Atlanta has just been added. I've
never done stand up care and I've done the pod there.
I've never done stand up in Atlanta ever, so I'm
excited to do that. That's we'llby June and I'm going

(25:41):
to Charlotte, so a lot of fun ahead of me.
And then Australia. I'm there, our listeners, Australia down and wait,
I'm going to Australia and New Zealand right yeah, yeah, yeah,
but you know what else?

Speaker 4 (25:52):
I just did a fundraiser for child abuse.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
I don't know, but it was in an Australia themed
bar in the South Seaport, like past Battery Park, like
so so far low Hugh Jackman might be an investor,
but everyone had an Australian accent.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
It was crazy, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
There used to be an Australian restaurant on the Upper
West Side that I would go to for bottomless Mamosa
brunch and they served the craziest, weird Australian food and
everyone that worked there was an Australian.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
Yeah, you know, they love to travel and they love
to stick together. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
But the Great White in La, the Great White Shark Place,
that's an Australian place. I just went there for the
first time like two weeks ago. I'd never been a
Panta Monica. The Larch Larchmont. Yeah, I love it. No,
the food was delicious. I had a great I had
a great meal. I had a really good time there.
It's very pretty all right, let's get started. We've got
a good one for you. All right, we will be

(26:45):
doing the episode Terrorized, season eighteen, episode one.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
Yeah. Fun, what you're shaking your head now?

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Why, It's just like it's just like, of course, of course,
Stu was just like we got to get in the
mix on all these things that were happening.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
At the time. It's just like, is it so many things.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
I honestly don't remember anything about this episode except this
huge cold open that I've always been like, wait, what
episode is that?

Speaker 4 (27:13):
And it's fucking this yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
But like at this time, you know, September twenty first,
the day after my birthday in twenty sixteen, this episode
came out and we were still you know, blissfully in
a pre Trump America. But there was a lot of
terrorist stuff happening, and like, obviously that's the show was like, well,
we got to dip a toe in, you know, we.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
Got to dip in a terrorist toe.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
I'm actually doing a terrorism joke right now and people
want to not like it, but they like it. They
have to, and it's been really a fun journey to
work on.

Speaker 4 (27:48):
Anyways, I will get into that.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, God, it's so stupid that Hillary didn't win.

Speaker 4 (27:56):
It's like, imagine how like different everything would be.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Oh so we open on cheery music, so that's kind
of exciting, but then of course, oh no, JK. The
greens are lush, it's a gorgeous day. There's kids with
balloon hats. There's a balloon guy making balloons, and then
a woman and a small boy walking hand in hand.
We're not going to make any assumptions to their relationship.
He runs off to go to the ballue. Art of course,

(28:21):
a kid wants that. She chases after him. She's like
Ali Ali, and but while she's running to catch him, bam,
a bike hits her. She falls like, spins in the air,
falls on the ground. It's really, it's.

Speaker 4 (28:33):
Really and this was like a real fuck, Like I, yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
This happened to me when I was a child. What Yeah,
when I was in summer camp in Chicago, Isla. It
was on Peterson but I don't it was at a park.
It was like a park district camp and I was
crossing just like a bike path and a bike fucking
hit me, and I remember it's.

Speaker 4 (28:58):
Yeah, could you not that's traumatic?

Speaker 1 (29:01):
I mean yeah, I remember being like, oh, fuck, when
this lady gets hit.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
Yeah, it's not it's not.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
A well and we'll get to well. Just there's so
much people run to help her. We're in Central Park,
you know, everyone's all hands on deck. But Alia doesn't
fucking notice. He's getting balloons made. Kids are surrounding him.
And now we cut to Benson. She's at the park.
She's spinning Noah. It's by one of the statues. I
don't know if I've seen the statue, but it's one

(29:28):
of them. And she has a coffee. Her hair is shiny,
just like a normal mom at the park. And it
is our favorite era of Noah, Baby Noah, no offense
to bisexual Noah.

Speaker 4 (29:39):
So now, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
So then she like wants to throw away her coffee
cup and wants in the garbage a newspaper with a
photo of odds, and that stresses her out. Obviously, this
is season eighteen, episode one, so the finale was when
we lost baby Dots. So then her phone rings, it's crazy.
She's like, oh, I'm actually at the park with Noah.
We'll head down to eighty four. So we find this boy.
He doesn't speak English. She's playing in like a sandbox.

(30:05):
And then the uniform cop you know, did the right thing, Olivia,
you know, involving Olivia like he he seems young and inept.
So then hand in hand with Noah, she approaches Ali.
She's using her little baby voice. He responds by saying
boom and knocking down. Not a sand castle? What do
you call it when it's like a sand bucket mold?

Speaker 4 (30:26):
Is there a name? Beadcastle? It's not a sand castle.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
No, I need a little more construction for it to
be a castle.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Oh, like just one lump. It was one bucket lump.
If it's a one bucket lump, it's a one bucket lump.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
I don't think there's a name. I think it's the
beginnings of a sand castle, but it's not. Yeah, I
think there should be a name, you know. It's like, yeah,
I get what you're saying, though, You're like, I need
like two structures the beginnings of a moat, like there
has to be more for a sand castle.

Speaker 4 (30:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
So this little boy crawls into his backpack. Guess what
he takes out not an uncrustable a gun. He points
the gun on Benson and so obviously she like, you know,
say it puts Noah behind her.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
The uniform gun.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Takes its truly so shocking, Like this is a kid
that's seen guns being used before.

Speaker 4 (31:13):
He's not like playing with it. He's like, what's up?

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Like he looks like a man holding a gun, Like
you know what I mean, Like he's holding it kind
of right, I.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Know, but he still looks like a little kid to me.
And that's why, Yeah, I feel crazy. When the uniform
guy aims the gun at the.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Kid, totally I thought that was crazy too, But I
was like, she's like, chill.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Out, chill out, we don't yet tryal she grabs the
gun from the kid. The kid's not like fighting this woman,
and she takes the clip out. There is a bullet.
She breathes really intensely as she hugs Noah. We hear
sirens in the background, and it's the credits, So we're
back from the credits. We're at the hospital and the
boy is fine physically and not sexually abused, but definitely
has trauma if he like has a gun in his backpack.

(31:53):
His language seems like Eastern European Russian, it's not Russian,
and they're looking for translators and hopefully, you know the boy,
we could talk to this boys soon. They're trying to
track down his family. Creasy rushes in with Rollins and
Finn with some bad news for Benson. The lady that
got hit with the bike, she didn't make it. And
that's what I wanted to mention too. It's like people

(32:14):
don't think bicycle that's a bad accident. It's a bad accident.
Freck sat outside her bar, a guy was all like,
all just hit a woman, and she goes like, you
got to be off the fucking sidewalks and parks and
wherever you fucking bicycle. Like it's really I really hate
the bicycle community in this the electric one, especially like
if you're not following all the rules and the lights
and the directions like go fuck yourself. It is it's

(32:37):
deadly force. It's like not casual and and this proves it.
This lady is dead son and they don't refer to
the mom. So we're like fuck so and so like
witnesses help put this together and like that they saw
this woman with the kid and they she did have
an idea on her. Her name is Raheema Bobbitt. She

(32:57):
has a city card with an address and a story. No,
but they found kids subscreen in her bag now with
the glock. It's unregistered, but they're searching with the serial number,
and Benson wants.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
To keep the crime.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
And the kid got the gun from somewhere and we
need to find who the fuck this is, Like Benson
has personal vendetta and now you know Noah's involved, Like no, no, no, no.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
They head to a story.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
They check out Bobbik's apartment, Rollin's increas here there all
the evidence points to the boy lives there. And you
know the evidence is just snacks in the fridge, but
in a bag with his name embroidered on it, so
he could be visiting. I don't understand when they jump
to these weird conclusions with kitchen fines always in his
little bag. There's a photo of him and his mother,
and there's also a daily schedule. There's two pages of instructions,

(33:44):
and then also a letter says, Raheema, no matter what happens,
tell him I love him more than anything in the world.
That doesn't sound good. So she doesn't know when or
if she's coming back. That's what this letter is proving.
And then Finn comes in with a neighbor that knew
the deceased, and he also has seen the woman from
the photo a couple of times too. She would dump
the kid there, so that's like, you know, you don't

(34:05):
have to use the word dump. This man has been
in four SVU episodes. He looked familiar. He works a lot,
but it's we know him from SVU. Robert s.

Speaker 4 (34:13):
Kirk. He said that they argued a lot.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
He says always something with these people, and Finn goes
what people, He goes immigrants stuff like He's.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
Like, what kind of question is that.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Finn goes, sure, and your people came here on the Mayflower, okay,
and he got he looks gotten, so he leaves. I
love that part and then rollins is like, we need
to find this boy's mother. Do you have any ideas?
He's like, well, I think she was a waitress, you know,
but I don't know. Don't ask me where. And Rollins
is ready to do detective work. And she saw that
the leftovers in the fridge all came from one place,

(34:45):
a diner called the Parthenon Classic. I feel like the
food is good. I would go there, Cristinos it it's
on thirty if they have great spawn of Copada.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
I fucking hate him right.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Now, Like, you're right, it's always a fucking why would
he know he's from Staten Island and you're telling me
he knows a Greek diner on thirtieth in Queens.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, And he is like diners are to him like
Catholic schools are to Stabler, right, Like just this stupid
encyclopedic knowledge of them that makes no sense. And also
I'm just gonna say, I don't think Spana Copa.

Speaker 4 (35:17):
Is ever like Killer. It's fine.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
I'm never like, oh, the best Spanic cop but I've
had a lot of Spanac. Maybe it's because you've never
been to the Parthenon. Never I've been to the Parthenon. Yeah, yeah,
you're right, that's probably it. That is definitely it.

Speaker 4 (35:28):
But yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
So and then Chester Lake, it's any structure that his
family built.

Speaker 4 (35:32):
He knows everything and where it is. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
And then Finn knows every narcotics undercover agent, and.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
Liv knows every designer label. Yeah, and Robins knows every
stat of every athlete. That's like every any any guy's
girl fact, yeah, guy's girl facts.

Speaker 4 (35:52):
So whatever.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
We're at the Parthenon and the manager knows the photo.
He goes, that's anakopic and this guy's hot. And she
has not shown up to work for three days, but
that's usual. She comes and goes. He puts up with it.
He doesn't give a fuck. He didn't know that she
even had a son. And then he of course says,
oh poor thing. Rollins asks questions. He says that she
would show up with a black eye all the time
and bruises so and he's down to give any info.

(36:16):
Anything up, And they head to the address. Guess what it's.
It's a vacuum like cleaner, fixer place, home goods store.
There's no apartments there. The phone is a burner. So
we're back to like square one. So the kid as
a gun there's fake photo and addresses, there's bruises. She
could be a sex worker on the run or dealing
with some dealers. This is Rollin's in her judgmental era.

(36:38):
She's like, well, maybe the kid's better off with social
services and Chrissy goes, no, I mean the note she
laugh made it seem like she did love her son,
and hello, she's bruised up. Rollins goes, well, sometimes Lovin
eight enough, And I'm like, okay, is this like Kim
Rowlins residual trauma? Why you're such a bitch. She's such
a bitch. Benson and Tucker are doing a brisk walking talk.

(36:59):
It's been ten hours and they are nowhere. Benson's obviously
personally affected. Benson gets a call and she goes, great,
I'm on my way. She kisses Tucker. So we're in
their dating moment, and this I will actually never forgive.
Where light the writer's production, everyone on this. The fact
that Tucker and her could not have ended up together

(37:19):
and done great things at the Bureau, or at least
broken up in a chill way so they could go
back together, is fucked up.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
You're nodding, But I need the people to know that
you agree with me, I'm not. I'm completely agree for me.
He was her person.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
It kisses me and he had growth and change and
he's hot and was older and like, I don't know,
I love Noah.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
They went to fucking the beginning of this episode, doesn't
she go, you want me to fly you like the
plane we took to Paris. It's like they went on
a romantic trip to Paris. And he was like, yes,
bring your kid, sure, let's do it. You know, I
will never forgive. I will never forgive for this.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
So she bumps into the chief Daddy Dads and you know,
she's kind of that fault for his son dying.

Speaker 4 (37:58):
So the tension is real.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
There's resent and yeah, he's being icy as fuck and
he's holding meetings without her. They give each other dust stairs.
She's like, I am lieutenant, I should be in the meeting,
and he goes, no, no one wants you in the meeting.
Thank you so much, and he walks off, but not
before glancing over to the side of her, and it's
an immemorium photo of his son, Baby Dodds.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
So this is intense, but.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
It was it was I thought it was baby Dodds's
like fault, wasn't it not to victim blame.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
But like she shouldn't have left. She shouldn't have left.
She should have just pushed the woman out. She like
left with one of the hostages and left him alone.
And he did a bad police work because he was
a young, unexperienced detective that only got the job from nepotism.
So it's actually his dad's fault, Yeah, for putting him
in the line of duty in a job he was

(38:53):
not prepared for or ready for. Her he did that bad,
But she shouldn't have left. Yeah, I never really think
of it as her fault, but like I thought she
was just like she's trying to get them. She makes
everything about her, so she better at least holds some
blame for this, Like, yeah, there are things where she
like took a swab and then the girl did and
she's like, oh, I wasted, you know what I mean.

(39:14):
It's just like haa, I don't know. It's complicated. It's complicated, Yeah,
of course.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Yeah, So he's also he's he's very freshly grieving, so yes,
yeah he should get another job.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
So whiteboard colage time, the lab got a partial off
the block. It's Luca'sterzik twenty six born in New York.
Anna is Bosnian Coloriana whatever, I'm gonna switch it up.
Anna is Bosnian national on a student visa. And we
have an apartment for Luca and queens. Finn and Grease
are gonna head down, but Benson's like, oh, I'm coming
the fuck with you, and I need to find out

(39:49):
why this kid had a glock. And they arrive obviously
no answer at the door. Finn shoulders the door open,
dramatic music. They turn on the lights, white walls. So
that's like I think of spy movies. It's like born
identity shit, there's nothing. It's sparse, like no one cares
about furniture we have. There is a family photo. It
is Luca, Anna and the boy, and it seems like

(40:13):
someone left in a hurry. The hard drive is gone.
They're searching slowly. Finn opens the door and uh, oh,
we got a problem. It's a room of machine guns,
so many guns, bombs, wires, I'm talking like three dozen
weapons and then there's two frames and in them Arabic words.
So we need to call terrorism. So we call ESU
Joint Terrorism and the bomb squad. Now we have a

(40:34):
walk and talk with Daddy, Dodds and Benson. So Luca
is a US citizen, Anna is a legal immigrant. They're
not on any watch lists. There are no known connections.
He wants to grill the kids. She's like, he is four.
He goes, I don't care, Okay, So whatever. The Feds
are there, but everyone's down to work together. This is
obviously like a huge thing and they need to find
these people because they're obviously planning a mass casualty effect.

(40:57):
All media outlets, precincts have their photos all hands on deck,
round the clock shifts and teamwork.

Speaker 4 (41:03):
It's like busy.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
It's a busy precinst Rollin's and Creasy come running to
Benson and Odds and they got something. A management company
for the apartment building and rent on his apartment is
paid by a guy named armand Saedron. So they go
to a midtown office address. They're rushing over there, bulletproof
vest brigade. They find him, arrest him. A hardcore he's
a business suit guy. He's like, what the fuck, I'm
a US citizen. I mean, this is all really fucked

(41:27):
up to be reading as people are getting snatched off
the streets. For all the different citizenships they have. So
but whatever, Armand does know Luca, he's not denying it.
It's his half brother. He pays his rent because he's broke,
and then he's like, what the fuck is going on?
What's going on? He's like, you got the wrong guy,
like my brother, what are you guys doing here? Creasey

(41:49):
grabs its phone and says, call your brother, call him now,
and he goes, how about it, call my lawyer.

Speaker 4 (41:53):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Creasy grabs the phone, finds Luca's you know number in
their last call was yesterday at nude. The guy's starting
to look concerned and this guy, if you is the
father from the Street Gang and street Wise. So a
huge moment for us as watchers of SVU. This less
Eyeliner than his season nine episode. The moment Luca answers,

(42:17):
he starts screaming in his native language and to me,
I wrote, in all caps, I mean dumb ough to
not leave the room is so stupid. They could have
been like, hey, we have your brother, he's in the hospital.
Like there's so many things like this is the dumbest
choice on Caresee's part.

Speaker 4 (42:34):
Finn jumps on him to shut his ass up.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Cresey's begging him not to hang up, but obviously Luca
is gone. They get Taru involved and he goes, I,
you know, my brother's innocent, and I demand a lawyer.
Crisy says, shut up. Taru finds the phone location, but
the phone's just in a dumpster, screen cracked and locked.
So business brother keeps being like, my brother's poor and dumb,
like he wouldn't do this. I pay for I do
everything because he's poor and dumb. So what do we do? Now?

(42:58):
We gotta call Barbara. So we're in chambers. It's Judge
Stephen Carry. Barbara is begging for permission to make the
phone company and manufacture give the past codes to the
private phone because of public safety, should companies on lock phones?

Speaker 4 (43:13):
I say no, never, but I mean I don't know,
like I'm going to talk about it a little bit
in the park. Yeah, well, because yeah, I'm curious.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Okay, So judge doesn't like it, but these are unique circumstances.
Of course, Barbara gets his way, but even the judge
is like, okay, but the company could still fight and
appeal this, but you know, I'm fine with you doing it,
And that's what they're doing the manufacturers refusing to unlock
because that obviously sets up a fucked up precedent, and
we don't want companies giving our shit up to the government.

(43:45):
Yeah but okay, So Dodds is impatient and Benson is like,
we're trying our best because I don't trust the government.

Speaker 4 (43:51):
Okay. So anyway, so he says, try harder.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Finn interrupts the because I would I would like to
be able to help stop a terrorist to sack if
that's what my phone needed to do or had the
information wildly but right, tough, Okay, so he says, try harder.
Fit interrupts this uncomfortable energy again. The death, the death.
So they got something Cariesian Avess. He says that facial

(44:16):
recognition got a hit on traffic cam twenty minutes ago,
and it's Luca and a woman that looks like on him.
They're entering Central Park on west side of seventy second Street.
It's afternoons, so many people are in the park, all
hands on decks. So we're at the park. There's a
small crowd watching dancers and like street performers, and Luca
and Anna approach and he's pulling her. She doesn't look
thrilled to be there, but they do have backpacks. We

(44:38):
hear sirens, we hear running. People are enjoying the dancing,
so people are having a good time. And then we
see a bearded man having like a good time vibing
to the music. But then he makes eye contact with Luca,
doesn't like the vibe, looks him up and down, sees
the gun under the shirt. So the bearded guy turns
to Luca, takes out his badge and says, excuse me,
and no time, Luca shoots him in the chest.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
He's dead.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Tons of people are getting a shot so fast. Ten
of people lay down to not get If you're off duty,
stay off duty, babe. Benson and like twenty cops run
into the crowd. The shooters run up the stairs of
something and it looks like a construction zone or something
like that. Okay, so they approach Anna. She says, help me, please,
but all the guns are on her. Benson has a
glare of I'm disgusted with you anger. They hate her.

(45:20):
She's like begging, shaking and nervous. Benson's face wants to soften,
but she can't quite yet. Benson runs to the hospital
where Dodds is waiting with the stats. One dead, four wounded,
two critical.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
Dead.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
On arrival is Tom Flannery, and Flannery is familiar to
Benson and he is an off duty police officer. Special
Agent Dan Connelly arrives on the scene, eating time for Benson.
The suspect isn't talking and all she cares about is
her son, so obviously they want Benson to talk. So
Anna relates to her as a mother or whatever. She's
better talking to people. So we're in a new room.

(45:52):
We're in a white wall, white bars, metal door handle vibes,
so we've never seen this room. Anna is shocked he
was alone, and even more surprised that he had a gun,
Like she was like, what the fuck? Like I left
him with my aunt.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
What.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Then they have to reveal to her that her aunt
is dead. She is visibly upset. Her body tries to move,
but her handcuffs are attached to the table. She really
wants to see her son, and they're like, well, you
need to give us information. You're not like gonna go,
you know, see your son. So she just keeps shaking
her head saying I don't know, I don't know. In
walks Elizabeth Marvel aka Rita Calhoun and saves her client

(46:30):
right in the nick of time. Benson goes, wow, Rita,
you're representing terrorists now, and she says, suspected terrorist and
everyone's entitled to a defense. So we're back at the precinct.
I want to know who called her.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
That's what I wanted to I was thinking, and like, yeah,
Rita's doing this pro bono, but like that's not usually
Rita's thing.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Like no, sometimes with these big guys like we've seen
Trevor Lake and no more, like they like to take
these to make them feel like they're not evil people.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
Mm hmmm. Yeah. And because the only other times she
helped a victim it was her friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
I just because Armand's in custody right or they had
to let him go. Well, I don't know. I just
wonder who called the anstaid. She doesn't seem like she
has a big network. So do you think read A
saw it on the news and went running Our lawyer's
just fighting or like.

Speaker 4 (47:26):
Yeah, like are they like who gets there first? Like
I don't get it.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Like some associate called and was like this one seems juicy.
You might like you might want this, like, you know,
I don't really know. Well, all right, whatever, it's it's
a mass shooting in Central Park. Like we truly don't
know anybody except for the brother who's connected to a
controversial mosque in Queens. But the Feds don't have him
and they let him go and they're like, wait what.
But he's better on the street because then we can

(47:51):
see if we can pick up on chatter or get
information from his movements. So then the special Agent asked
Benson to pick up with Anna Tamaras since she has
a relationship with Calhoun and they're gonna indict her on
murder and terrorism charges.

Speaker 4 (48:04):
So Dodds says, too late.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
The DA file charges ten minutes ago, and the chief
and the big guns are like, well, that's so dumb,
and he goes, nope, Flannery was one of our own,
and that's that.

Speaker 4 (48:14):
Then he runs off, and this is grief talking.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Benson runs after him while tons of media run to
get scooped from Barba. And so that's where we're out.
It's a frenzy outside. He goes, we are working together.
We don't know much, and we don't care about affiliations
or motivations. What this woman did was murder and that's that.
So we're in court, she's pleading not guilty. He wants
her man. She goes no release, so Calhoun, which I
think is crazy, he wants to release on her own recognisance,

(48:39):
and the Dutchess is like freeze say like a joke. Yeah,
So there's murmurs in the galley and the judge asks
why would that be appropriate?

Speaker 4 (48:47):
And she goes because Anna is a victim.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
She was raped and tortured for hours before the homice
side by her fiance and his brother. She was present,
but she was not there under her own free will,
and if she didn't cooperate, she herself would have been murdered.
And we got that energy from her. She wasn't like
happy to be there, right right right. Barbara and Benson
are walking and talking. Barbara thinks it's bullshit. Benson doesn't

(49:09):
think Rita would make this up. Cariese comes running up
with files. The abuse has spanned five years. Barbara's pissed.
Benson goes, just because she's a murderer doesn't mean she
can't also be a rape victim. Barbara says she's playing
right into the games. Of the defense, Benson, you should
know better than that. Anna needs to go down hard,
and Benson's like, okay, I'm gonna go speak to her,

(49:29):
you fucking idiot. So they star at each other for
a while. We're back in this white room, Benson says,
I'm just here to listen, regardless of what happened yesterday.

Speaker 4 (49:38):
So she came to the US six years ago. She
wanted to be a nurse. And this is.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Again why we have to treat people that are like
whatever on visas or freshly here, Like everyone needs to
feel safe to get help because I don't yeah, I
don't know. Yeah, I'm just thinking about like coming here,
your being abuse. She wanted to be a nurse. She
lived with her aunt and queens. Then she met Luca
and he was nice and he took her out to
eat and clubs. She fell in love. But then everything changed.

(50:04):
He changed. She was angry all the time. He hated everyone,
rich people, Jews, gay people, black people. Then he started
to hit her, then started forcing her to have sex
when she didn't want to, and then forcing his brother
to on her too, and they would do it together
and it went on for years.

Speaker 4 (50:20):
So fun, But I wonder what was Luca just abusive
all along? You know what I mean? Like, what the fuck?

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah, well, she never told anyone was too afraid, and
they threatened to kill her and take away her son
and she would die a whore because they have video
and they're gonna make it look like she was having
fun and send it to all her family. She said
the last assault was too boring because ago and it
was still dark out. She remembers hearing the garbage trucks
and that's what she focused on, the sound of the trucks.
Rita says, show her what they did to you. She

(50:47):
shows marks on her body and so basically she hit
Armin in the face and they got mad and beat
the shit out of her with belts, and she wanted
to do something or call the cops, but she was
afraid for her and her son and she didn't want
anyone else to die. So she starts crying. She goes,
please forgive me. Benson wants to do a rape kit.
Benson walks off colder than usual, and I think it's
because Noah was there and the gun and like put

(51:09):
her son in danger. So Benson is like pleading with Dodds. Like,
so passionately. She's like the rape kit confirmed vaginal and
anal intercourse. And then Barraba is like watching from the
background and seeing all of this happen, and there's tearing
and abrasions and they're running the DNA on the seamen.
But she was brutalized. He goes, yeah, but she still

(51:29):
killed a cop and a college student just died too,
who is in critical condition. Barbara agrees with Dodds and
does not care, and Dodds wants her to pause the
rape investigation untill the trial is over, and her eyes widen.
They really don't care about the rape, and she's like, no,
I'm not an idiot, Like I understand bigger things are
at play here, but I can't not do this. I'm

(51:50):
just trying to do my job, she says, and he responds,
with all due respect, doing your job cost my son
his life, so.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
This is out of pocket.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Like you don't fucking say that you don't like dog
Come on.

Speaker 4 (52:05):
Also, yeah, he's been wanting to say it all episode.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
I've been you know, at this point, you still hate
Dodds like you've always hated Daddy Dodds like I have,
like I've like I hated Daddy Dodds so much. He
does soften up towards the end, right before he leaves,
and it's like you want to have empathy for him
and have like you're like, oh, this is when I'm
gonna start liking Daddy Dodds because now he's grieving.

Speaker 4 (52:27):
But he's even more of a dick in his grief.
He's such a dick. But I'm on his side wildly.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
All that matters is that this cop died, and like,
we're not investigating the thing that this unit investigates.

Speaker 4 (52:41):
Though you're on his side, I'm on.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
His side in terms of like Benson, fuck off, you
were there, like you were lieutenant and you know.

Speaker 4 (52:50):
But it's probably.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Because he feels so guilty that he knows deep down
it's like not her fault. I just feel he's acting out.
I'm not on his side. I think they should investigate
the rain. I think Benson's right about everything, but I
get his anim I'm like, okay with his attitude, I guess,
but I overall, I think, well, we should actually do
a bracket. Maybe, I mean, March madness is over, but

(53:13):
this is the bracket I want to do. Is like
all the men that come in and try to like
overpower Benson, like I hate them all, Like do I
hate Dodd's more than McGrath. So I hate old Tucker
Like there's just so many of them that come in
and out and try to tell her what to do.
Yeabraham is number one because of the pedophile stuff.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
Yeah, to act holier than now and know that you've
got a fucking flash drive of child porn taped underneath
your desk, like you're psychotic?

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Yeah, yeah, whatever, A lot of a lot of stairs
God's stammers. He leaves Benson stunned. Barbara goes, he didn't
mean it, and Benson goes, oh he did, and he
is it wrong? And Barbara goes, don't do that, and
she goes. She goes, I know we all want someone
to pay for what happened. I'm just not sure that
person was Ona. He thinks that she is just as

(54:03):
guilty as Luca. I want to know the ballistics, like
what bullets went anywhere? Like it was like I didn't
I have to gun? Yeah? So wait, did I say
that Luca's was like dead on a right, like they
killed him, they shot his ass. I don't know if
you said that. No, I didn't. They killed him. They
killed him on the scene. So Barbara goes just as

(54:25):
guilty as Luca. Rape or no rape. She is a killer,
and that is what I'm going to tell the jury.
Her phone buzzes, the DNA came back and the boy
Ali the father is Luca's brother, Arman, not fucking Luca.
So this gets even more twisted because that means he
has paternal rights. So if Anna goes to prison, the
boy ends up with that motherfucker, and if the Feds

(54:46):
can't come up with a case against him, he's gonna
get the boy. And we need to stop this. She
starts to leave. I mean, how many more? This is
two layered at this point. Too many layers. She starts
to leave. He goes, where are you going? And she
goes to investigate a case that nobody wants me to
so dramatic. So we're in cement roombar is finally a
familiar room. We got him in there, and he is denied, denied, deny.

(55:07):
He's cocky. I wouldn't do that. She wouldn't do that.
We're not doing it, and they're like, we have DNA,
so shut up, and he turns it around to think
of a story.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
He says, fine, you're right. I did have sex with
her a few times.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Benson goes sit down, and he's like, she's a whore,
and Benson goes, that's not a nice word. And he goes,
she's not a nice woman. She's a manipulator and a user.
She came here and ruined my brother's life and turned
him into a killer and a radical. So he's like
denying everything, and then they realize that he's wearing the
fucking belt that they abused her with.

Speaker 4 (55:37):
So they're like, they're like, you fool, you're wearing the belt.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
And he has nothing to say because he is, and
he says, I want a lawyer. So Benson goes, okay,
but you're going down with or without a lawyer, And
he goes, okay, she's a terrorist who cares and a tramp.
Do you really think anybody cares about her? And Benson
like puts her hands on the table and leans in
and goes, I do, and then nods at rollins and
goes and so does she and trust me, that's enough,

(56:01):
and he knows she's not lying, And truly one of
the sexiest scenes of the whole tenure of this show cool.

Speaker 4 (56:07):
The ladies leave him.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
He's pouting, and so now her emotions court is the
rape relevant, is it not? We got Barba versus Calhoun?
It's a lot. Benson's on the stand trying to convince
the judge. Barbara is like, so fucking annoyed. Benson's on
the stand and she's convinced that Anna is a victim
of a brutal and painful sexual assault. Dodds Now is
in the office and it's a bustling precinct and when
Benson walks in, he rushes at her, are you a

(56:31):
copper defense lawyer? And she goes, I did what I
thought was right, and then she also goes, and what
did you want me to do? Perjure myself? And he's mad,
and you know, the Chief of des is mad, the
mayor's mad, the da is mad. They're all pissed, and
they want a fucking head to serve up on a
shiny platter. And he needs her to at least pretend
to be on their side and not the terrorists, and

(56:51):
Benson shakes her head.

Speaker 4 (56:53):
Barbara walks in.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Benson goes, oh great, you want to fight too, and
he goes, listen, your ambission is stupid, self centered idea, realistic,
even if admirable, And she says, rape is rape. We
don't get to invent our victims or our purpse. And
we hear evidence, we investigate. Unless you're a Muslim woman,
of course, So let's get patriotic and move on.

Speaker 4 (57:13):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
And Barbara goes, listen, the judge ruled in our favor,
and she goes, your favor, not our favor, and he
goes either way, the rape isn't going into this case,
and he's like, and I keep telling you, this case
is different. So she's left alone at her desk to ponder.
Benson finds Calhoun on the street, who's acting really breezy
for this kind of serious trial, bright blue suit, like
really fun. Bence goes, look, it's over. You're not going

(57:36):
to win. This case is important to too many people.
Benson's like, it's time to cut a deal for Anna's sake.
Once this goes to trial, he is going to max
her out. And she goes, well, that's not a reason
to cut a deal. She goes, no, but this is
armand's going to get sole custody of that little boy.
So if she cuts the deal on the murder and terrorism.
Then it gives her more leverage to pursue the rape
case and make sure Armand never goes near the little

(57:56):
boy again. Rita thinks, but the meeting's going to happen,
So bar says it needs to be murder one.

Speaker 4 (58:01):
Rita goes, we'll accept it on two conditions.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
One, at sentencing you'll advocate twenty to life and advocate
for parole to be on the table. He nods, yes,
I think that's fair. Two, you'll agree to use your
best efforts to prosecute Armand for rape. He says, well,
I can't do that. She goes, wait on the record,
but off the record, you could like nod and so
he nods. She but why can't whatever? So she says,
I don't want my son to be raised by that man.

(58:25):
As Barbara gets up to leave, he will ruin him
and turn him into a monster and a killer. He's
like kind of he's just not emotionally swayed by this woman.
He doesn't feel sympathetic to her in any capacity. Like
it is what it is, and Benson find like it's
all up to Benson. She needs to find evidence and
like do a good investigation Rita gets up and she's
just like, listen, you can go fly the flag and

(58:45):
declare victory in you one, but deep down you know
the truth and you know that she is not evil,
she is not a killer.

Speaker 4 (58:51):
She is a rape victim.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
And Anna drops her head really low, and Barbara says, listen,
I'm gonna try my best. So Benson runs into Barbara's
office pissed as fuck. What do you mean there's not
enough evidence? And he goes, okay, hello in a smug tone,
and Benson interrupts. She goes, the evidence is overwhelming. We
have his semen, we have tearing, we have bruising, we
have testimony. Benson goes, you said you would try your best,
and he's like, yeah, no, I am. They're gonna say

(59:14):
she's a wildhre who likes rough sex and she's already
a convicted murder and terrorists like, I don't know what
to tell you. Humanity's humanity. That's the jury, babe, and
so he says she needs more. Benson goes, okay, how
about the video of them raping and beating her?

Speaker 4 (59:30):
Would that be enough? And he goes, are you being sarcastic?

Speaker 2 (59:32):
And she goes, no, they used to record the brutality,
and it was a way of maintaining control. The problem
is dot dot dot. Barbara realizes it's on the locked phone.
So we're back at Supreme Court. We got Barbara pleading
to get into the phone. Barbara's gonnahead, you know, go
heads ahead with these big companies. It's legal time, you know,
court happens, it's it's the normal fight.

Speaker 4 (59:55):
It would ruin security.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Barbara's at the office quick and Benson goes, we won,
but they appealed within seconds, so we're back to square
one for a while. Barbara does not think that DA
would support doing this right now, and she does finally
get it. They talk about mass shootings, but Anna deserves
justice for what happened to her and she just wants
her kids to be safe. Benson wants to arrest him
and that's that, and they all have their vests and
they're gonna arrest him no matter what. The FBI's there though,

(01:00:19):
and she's like, what the fuck's going on, and they
said that they picked up some chatter he's talking to
known radicals and she goes, well, I have a warrant
for his arrest and they're like, well, that needs to wait.
The chief guy from earlier is not being as nice
as he was earlier in the show. He doesn't really
need her anymore. They're taking him to a very special
and secure hotel and that's that he's being carried out.

(01:00:39):
He gives Benson a dirty look, and I mean, I
guess he's being arrested. So who gives a fuck? He's
being taken whatever. Yeah, van door's closed or square. I
don't know what the hotel meets like. I don't know
does that goe tanam obey like, I don't know what
that kind of.

Speaker 4 (01:00:52):
I think that's the I think that's the implication.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Okay, our squad stairs, we're at a Metro it's in
correctional center and Anna get some time with her son.
Benson's watching in the corner. She says, you don't have
to worry about Armen anymore. They contacted her sister. She's
on her way to New York right now, and he's
gonna go live with her in Bosnia. Anna is so relieved,
Thanks Benson, but it's also time to say goodbye. It's

(01:01:16):
really emotional.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
They hug. The boy cries.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Benson his back at the park with Noah kissing baby
Noah and Tucker meets them at the park. She has
white nail polish, love it. She's so happy even though
the week was tough and hard, and she starts to cry.
He goes, why are you crying? And she's scared it
won't last and she's right, and Tucker says that's not true.
He's a liar and not if I can help it,
you can't, and he brushes her hair and they go

(01:01:40):
for a walk with Noah in the park and that's
dick wolf baby.

Speaker 4 (01:01:44):
It's so cute. I like them walking as a family.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
I just don't get I guess it's hard to say
whether she was fully part of the terror attack, and
maybe now she's just playing victim, like we can't know
if she's acting or not, but like it seems to
me from what's portrayed in the episode that she's just
been like literally abused and beaten down for years, has

(01:02:08):
nowhere to go, is worried if she tells anyone.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
What did they want her to do? They wanted her
to go to authorities.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
I'm sure she doesn't trust authorities and thinks she'd be
deported and that if he finds out, he'll kill her.
Or kill her son, So like, how could she have
stopped anything from happening? Like she was literally a hostile.
I think of her as like a hostage.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Yeah, I agree, you know, so I think she was
not from Bosnian, was white, it would be different.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Yeah, twenty to life for being like a hostage, like
mentally beaten down, and like if she pulled.

Speaker 4 (01:02:36):
The trigger, yeah, I don't know, but I felt like
they didn't say that she did. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Maybe I was not watching closely enough. I didn't think
I saw her shoot any guns. But if she did,
then obviously yes, if you're responsible for taking people's lives.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
But I thought she was just like standing there scared.
And it's a good episode, I'll tell you that much.
And I want to know you had a lot of
work to do. I feel a lot of crimes.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Well yeah, there were a lot of crimes, but I
focused on one. Why was the back Why was the
gun in the kid's back back? You think the kid
just grabbed it?

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
This is yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
You think the kid was like, I'm just gonna grab
one of daddy's guns on my way out, Like I
don't Yeah, anyway, I would have thought that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Do you think that the ant put it in for
some reason, like she knew what was happening.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Hold this little guy, I don't want to walk through
New York with this am was a part of it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
What if they are actually all part of this thing
and that was all a fake thing and she was.

Speaker 4 (01:03:29):
Going to join them in the park.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Yeah yeah, well, but I think they loved the boy.

Speaker 4 (01:03:35):
I don't think they would have like left the boy
for I don't know. I find it hard to believe
that this. I don't know. Maybe I don't that the bad.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Guy would have like wanted to like take on a
four year old by himself, but probably just to like
radicalize them and turn him into like a MINII.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
But this case, that's like a TikTok thing that I
see where it's like men that never were involved with
their kids suddenly want half customer full custody.

Speaker 4 (01:04:02):
Yeah, like you didn't even do that when they were
when you were together. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Do you ever see that girl who calls guys and
tells them about their child's aport payments?

Speaker 4 (01:04:10):
Of course?

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Honey, yeah, yeah, yeah, what I'm chronically online and I'm
not going to see her.

Speaker 4 (01:04:14):
She's fun to watch, she's fun to watch, So.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
They mentioned in this episode tons of different stuff September eleventh,
like riots in Argentina, the Utopia night club fire bombings
in Madrid, all kinds of like.

Speaker 4 (01:04:36):
Sam Bernardino. That's what I thought of.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Well, I mentioned, well, I thought of Sam Bernardino, and
I'm going to talk about it briefly. But it is
kind of more based in a way on the Pulse
nightclub shooting in Orlando. So this episode obviously is linked
to the mass murder at Pulse Again nightclub in Orlando
that was committed by Omar Matin on June twel in

(01:05:00):
twenty sixteen. Famously always sticks in my mind because I
woke up after my cousin's wedding in a hotel room
with my mother and I was watching the news about
this on MSNBC and my mom goes, can we turn
the news on? And I go what the news is on?
And she goes, no, no, like Fox News. Like that's
when I knew the rot was in there. I was like,

(01:05:22):
oh shit, Like this is a full addiction, Like she
cannot this is a this is non politicize, like this
doesn't need to be politicized, Like they're literally just reporting
a very recent shooting that happened, Like why does it
matter if we're watching it on CNN, or like you
know what I mean. Crazy anyway. So matteen was an
Afghan American. He was born in New York, raised from
childhood in Florida, where he had problems his whole life

(01:05:44):
in school, semming from violence.

Speaker 4 (01:05:46):
He was known as a bully.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
In high school, he praised the nine to eleven terrorists
and claimed that Bin Lauden was his uncle. By the
time he graduated this sort of like special high school
that he went to for children with behavioral problems, he'd
been suspended for forty eight days for various incidents involving
him fighting and hurting other students. So troubled from the
get go, I think his dad seems like a crazy person.

(01:06:09):
His dad tried to like run for office in Afghanistan
or something like that, and was seemed nuts.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
Like.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
There was also a report that his dad slapped him
across the face in front of like everybody at school
one time. So Omar Matin meets his second wife very
quickly after his divorce in twenty eleven.

Speaker 4 (01:06:24):
Her name is nor Zahi Salmon.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
On a online dating app called Arab Lounge, and even
though she wasn't religious and he was you could say
unhealthily religious, she was obsessed with him.

Speaker 4 (01:06:35):
She was like, this guy is the whole thing. This
is what I want.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
They married quickly the same year, and then Selman said
that six months into their marriage, Mattine became physically and
verbally abusive. So like the beginning, he's like this nice guy.
She thinks everything's great, she thinks he's perfect, and then
six months in he starts being horrible. He would call
her a whore in Arabic if she did anything he
didn't like in public. He pulled her hair, punched her
shoulders so hard it left a bruise. Once, while she

(01:06:59):
was pregnant, he choked her, threatened to kill her.

Speaker 4 (01:07:02):
And he never ever apologized.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
For anything whenever he would hurt her, Like it wasn't
like the cycle of like, oh, I'm sorry and then.

Speaker 4 (01:07:07):
Come back like he just was like fully abusing her.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
He taunted her being like you can't leave me because
I'll get our son, which is a little bit like
I think in the episode, and like there's no proof
that I abused you, so I'll get him, you know,
And then you have no money, you have no job,
like I support you guys, so like I'm going to
get our son. So In the weeks leading up to
the attack, though Salman said things had improved. Mattine had

(01:07:33):
gotten into a police training program, of course, and had
bought her gifts to celebrate. He had stopped hitting her,
and just hours before the attack, he had given her
like a thousand dollars to take their three year old
son to visit her family in Rodeo, California, where she
grew up, and he told her, oh, like, I'm not
going to be home for dinner that night. I have
to see a friend, and he kissed her out the

(01:07:56):
son and he did not see a friend. He had
still drove two hours to Orlando to the Pulse nightclub,
and around two am on June sixteenth, he entered Pulse
Nightclub and began shooting, using two guns, a sig Sour
Sig MCX semi automatic rifle and a nine millimeter Glock
seventeen handgun, both of which he purchased completely legally two

(01:08:17):
weeks before the shooting, and he had no record in
the state of Florida, so twenty minutes later he called
nine one one and pledged allegiance to the Islamic State.
He mentioned the Sarnev brothers who were responsible for the
Boston bombing, the Boston Marathon bombing, as well as a
suicide bomber that he apparently was an acquaintance of his
in Syria. He made two other nine to one one
calls and also called a local Orlando news channel and

(01:08:40):
said he was the shooter and told them that he
had committed these crimes for the Islamic State and allegedly
he fired one hundred and ten rounds. So and before
the Las Vegas shooting, I think this was the deadliest
mass shooting that we had had in the US. When
police arrived, Mattein took hostages. Eventually he exchanged gunfire with
the police. That was in his death around five fifteen am.

(01:09:02):
So you have to think this is like a standoff
that's going on for like three hours. Like he's in
there and people are killed, a bunch of people and
people are in there, I know, like so horrific, so horrific,
Like this one really like, oh, I remember it so
well when it happened.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
He remember it because I remember when it happened, I
remember all the talks about it. I remember being sad
about it, But then I also remember watching the queens
on Drag Race talk about it and be connected to it,
and there was Orlando queens people were there. One like
I forgot one queen was supposed to perform that night
but didn't, and that friend got.

Speaker 4 (01:09:37):
I mean, it's just like and especially.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
You know, I think about the gay community and how
much of that is like chosen family and like right
down in other places and being able to be in
this like safe space.

Speaker 4 (01:09:52):
It's just like really sad. It's so sad.

Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
There were also rumors, I think he gets substantiated that
he had actually gone to Pulse a couple times and
he would drink there and he would get really drunk
sometimes and start yelling or whatever, but he would just
go there sometimes and sit quietly and drink. Like he
wasn't going in there ranting and being like you know,
you guys are sinners or anything. That means he would
drive two hours to go do that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
So was he planning all this time or he was closeted,
you know, and like, well that's that thing.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
There was a lot of rumor that he was closeted,
but apparently like none of that is substantiated. Like there's
rumors that he had gay apps on his phone that
was like ending up being cleared by the FBI. There
was rumors that he had some guy came forward and said, oh, yeah,
we hooked up, but that was never confirmed. Like it
just was like it was never confirmed the whole rumor
that he was a closeted gay man. There was some

(01:10:45):
conversation that he had with his wife where apparently they
went to Disney at one point and he said, what
do you think people would be more upset about, like
a shooting at Disney or shooting at a gay club.

Speaker 4 (01:10:55):
But again it's like the police thought.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
A lot of what the wife was saying was truthful
as well, So we'll.

Speaker 4 (01:11:02):
Get to some of that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
But he killed ended up killing forty nine people and
seriously injuring fifty three. And the night of the attack,
his wife, Selmon, wrote a Father's Day card to him,
which you can see online. It's wild. It's like from
their son, It's like, daddy, I love you so much.
And then she went to sleep and then at four
am she gets a call from her husband's mother looking

(01:11:25):
for him. I don't know why this is happening. Like,
I don't know why she already the mom already if
the mom already knows what's up, but like her mother
in law calls, so Salmon tries to sell and gets nothing.
She eventually got a text from him going did you
see what happened? And she said no, I haven't. And
then the final text she got from him said I
love you, babe, And the FBI later told her that
her husband, you know, died in this shootout after committing

(01:11:47):
a mass murder. Salmon became a person of interest in
association with this horrific attack and was questioned by the
FBI four hours. So this is why I kind of
think the episode is based a little bit more on
like their dynamic. Authorities believed she knew about his plan,
but they couldn't make an arrest based solely on their suspicion,

(01:12:09):
and she denied any involvement in the attack or knowledge
of her husband's plans. She said she knew he'd been
watching like Islamic state propaganda, but she figured since the
FBI had investigated him in twenty thirteen and cleared him
because he had told coworkers, I'm in Hesbola, I have
ties to al Kada. They obviously in investigated him, but

(01:12:29):
they found out that he was just fucking lying and
like none of it was substantiated, and so well, I guess,
she thought, I guess my husband's not doing anything wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:12:36):
The FBI cleared him.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
So a year before the attack, in April twenty fifteen,
matteen took someone and their son to Disney World, and
they thought authorities thought that he might have been scouting
the location as a target and may have even dropped
hints to his wife about his plan, but her lawyers
would not allow her to talk about what he said
to her at Disney. So she had also gone with
her husband to buy ammunition at Walmart, but she didn't

(01:12:59):
think this was suspicious. He was a security guard who
often went to the gun range he worked in security,
and so when she and her husband and her son
went with Matene to Orlando in the months before the shooting,
she claimed she had no idea that he was kind
of like casing pulse, like he was checking it out.

Speaker 4 (01:13:17):
But when they were.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
Interviewing her, she allegedly made a lot of misleading statements
to the FBI, but her lawyers argued that the police
interrogated her for eleven hours, and so she eventually just
initialed on the dotted line, like went along with their
narrative because they had exhausted her with their interrogation techniques.

Speaker 4 (01:13:33):
So six months.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
After the massacre, now it's January of twenty seventeen, she
is arrested and charged with obstruction of justice and with
aiding and abetting Mateen's attempted provision and provision of materials
support to ISIS so on. But on March thirtieth of
twenty eighteen, so almost over a year later, and Orlando

(01:13:55):
Jerry finds her not guilty as the prosecution had not
met its burden of proof.

Speaker 4 (01:13:59):
They had no evidence that she was involved.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
So it's kind of like it's a little bit of
San Bernardino mixed with this where because she wasn't at
the actual attack, she was cleared, but because this guy
dragged in the episode, this guy dragged his wife along,
she's completely implicated now. So that's that another reference is obviously,

(01:14:23):
as we talked about Sam Bernardino, that actually took place
six months earlier. That's why SVU is making an episode
about this, Like these attacks were coming bump up up uppa,
like one after another. Yeah, I don't know, Like I
don't know why people thought Donald Trump was going to
be the person to take care of all that. But
the terrorist attack in San Bernardino took place on December
second of twenty fifteen when Sayed Risjuan Faruke and tash

(01:14:46):
Fiene Malik, a married couple, opened fire on a Christmas
party at the County Department of Health at the Inland
Regional Center in San Bernardino, California. And if you know
anything about California, the regional centers in California, Like regional
centers are for children and people with disabilities. Like it's
for like if your child has like a learning disability

(01:15:08):
or any kind of physical disability, they go to the
regional center for therapy.

Speaker 4 (01:15:12):
They go to the regional center to work with people.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
Like this is a place where like people are being helped,
you know what I mean. Like it's almost it's like
it's like you're not shooting up a congressman's office. You're
not going somewhere where like the things are being or
even a church where like you disagree with the religion,
Like you're going to these places where like people are
getting help or people are finding family and enjoy, you know,
like like pulse.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
It's like so that the you know, can we ever
get their motivation for this.

Speaker 4 (01:15:40):
The lamb Reginoa.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
Honestly like why, that's why they're He worked for the
He worked for the Department of Health, so I think
he kind of just like did like a work shooting.
He worked like he was like a health inspector while
and like everybody described him as like a nice guy.
Like I don't know what he was doing with his

(01:16:05):
wife at home or whatever. I don't know if he
was abusive, but everyone at worked described him as nice,
whereas like Matine had been described as like a bully
and a violent person for most of his life, but
this guy, you know, different, different.

Speaker 4 (01:16:18):
So they busted in.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
They killed fourteen people, they seriously injured twenty two more.
They fled the scene and were eventually killed in a
shootout with police.

Speaker 4 (01:16:26):
Faruk was an American born citizen.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Malik was a Pakistani born a Green card holder, so
similar to the couple in the episode where you Know
one's American born, one is you know from an immigrant
from another country. The couple destroyed their personal phones, but
the FBI was able to find Faruk's work phone because
he worked for the Department of Health. It's like a

(01:16:49):
government phone, and they found his Apple iPhone five C.

Speaker 4 (01:16:52):
Wow, doesn't that feel like so many versions ago?

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
However, they could not unlock the four digit password, and
all the day would automatically delete after ten failed password attempts,
which I could never have on my phone because my
kids are always trying to get into it, and I
would just have all my data deleted every week. But
the FBI, in this famous you know, FBI versus Apple situation,

(01:17:16):
they wanted Apple to create and electronically sign new software
that would enable the FBI to unlock the phone.

Speaker 4 (01:17:23):
So in twenty fifteen and.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
Twenty sixteen, Apple received and objected to or challenged at
least eleven orders issued by US district courts under the
All Rits Act of seventy eight of seventeen eighty nine,
which Barbara does mention in the.

Speaker 4 (01:17:38):
Episode I believe all has it reminded me of a cracker?

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
Yes, I thought it was Rits too, but it's all
different word Ritz Wriits Act of seventeen eighty nine, which
empowers federal courts to issue quote all writs necessary or
appropriate in aid of their respective jurisdictions and agreeable to
the use and principles of law end quote. So basically

(01:18:03):
this is this like ancient fucking two hundred year old
plus law that basically says that the courts can do
anything they need to, like aid in their case right,
they could do anything they need as long as it's
like kind of agreeable with law. But it's like they
could have never known about phones or like the privacy

(01:18:25):
issues that we encounter today. So basically, the FBI wanted
Apple to quote to use its existing capabilities to extract
data like contact photos and calls from locked iPhones running
on operating systems iOS seven and older end quote to
help them in their criminal investigations and prosecutions. And then
a few requests involved phones with more extensive security protections.

(01:18:49):
The most famous is which San Bernardino, which is like
these this ten password attempts before the deletion, right, and
Apple has no ability to break that. They don't like,
you can't just give them the phone and say open it.
They have to write new software to be able to
open it. And they're like, we're not going to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
My thing is, it's like I don't want the government
to have control over that. But I don't want a
company to you know, if fucking musk locking and unlocking
shit and doing whatever you want.

Speaker 4 (01:19:14):
To do anything want? Yeah, what do we do?

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
I don't want anyone to have access to anything? But
they have, yeah, both, and they could truly decide. Like
if the company said fine, we'll do it, that would.

Speaker 4 (01:19:24):
Have been it. Yeah yeah, and like what we would
all stop using iPhones? No?

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
No, Well, and the orders basically made Apple write this
new software that would let the government bypass these devices
security and unlock the phones. But like just in this case,
or does now the government have that software like and
they can just put it on any phone they want.
That's I think maybe was some of the issue as well.
I don't know, it wasn't quite the same as there's

(01:19:52):
someone at large and we need to get into their
phone because there's someone you know, like there could be
more plans in place and we need to get to them.
Like that's kind of what Barbo's arguing in the episode,
is like we could stop an attack from happening, But.

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):
What's the call, Like, if you're willing to give up
liberty for or freedoms for security, you'll have neither yeah,
has that Ben Franklin, Who is that?

Speaker 4 (01:20:14):
I don't know, I just make it up. It's Lee's
a trigger to me. I don't know. No, that's definitely
not it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
I feel like an obnoxious boy in school said that
once and it's so.

Speaker 4 (01:20:25):
And he is one of Elon Musk's teens.

Speaker 2 (01:20:28):
Now, well that's isn't that the whole thing of Handmaiden's
Tale where they convinced you like, oh, we just need
to pause the Constitution.

Speaker 4 (01:20:35):
That's like the trailer.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
Now we didn't think it'd be forever, but it's like,
if you're willing to give up liberty or freedom for security,
you'll end up with none of it.

Speaker 4 (01:20:43):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:45):
But if someone's being abused, like yeah, get in there,
it's like so tough, it's so tough.

Speaker 4 (01:20:49):
Yes, my rules are tough. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:51):
Yeah. Because you'd think that they could do it like
case by case basis, like sure, we'll break this phone
if it's like to like someone with plans to hijack
a plane or do something crazy, you know, But in
this case it was like they were trying to find
Old it was his work phone and he was dead.

Speaker 4 (01:21:08):
And in this case.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
When the order compelled Apple to do it, Apple declined
to create the software, and then a hearing was scheduled. However,
a day before the hearing was supposed to happen, the
government obtained a delay, saying it had found a third
party able to assist in unlocking the phone. I don't
know if that's like, but they found like a hacker,
like I don't know. And then the government claimed that
the FBI had unlocked the iPhone and withdrew its requests.

(01:21:32):
So the whole thing kind of like went away.

Speaker 4 (01:21:35):
I have no idea about. The La Times reported that quote.

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
The FBI eventually found that Fruke's phone had information only
about work and he and it revealed nothing about the
plot end quote.

Speaker 4 (01:21:45):
So that's what the La Times reported. So and it's
what my quote is.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
And you get nothing, you give up your you know,
you let them whirl around.

Speaker 4 (01:21:53):
They're not finding anything. Yeah, got nothing, yeah yeah, yeah,
I mean this.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
They were also talking about how they this episode was
based on like the Sarna Brothers from but from uh,
the Boston Marathon and other guys that have killed people
in terrorist attacks in the name of ISIS and stuff
like that. But I didn't really feel like it was
necessary to just like, uh, you know, tell you take
you guys through twenty terrorist attacks. I feel like these
two and the iPhone and the apple thing are like

(01:22:20):
the most drawn from the episode, so that that's that.
And you know, like unfortunately, like in my research, I
don't think there was any indication that tash fiend Malik
Sayed Foruk's wife was being compelled in any way. Like
I think she also shot, used the gun and was

(01:22:41):
also like part of it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:42):
So yeah, I was just exciting to have a woman involved,
you know.

Speaker 4 (01:22:47):
Yeah, yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
I will add this one other thing, sayed Farouk's mother
actually pled guilt to a federal criminal charge of intending
to impede a federal criminal investigation because she shredded a
map that her son had made in connection with the attack.

Speaker 4 (01:23:10):
So she did plead guilty. And uh, I'm truf mo.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
Yeah, very boy, mom, hide everything.

Speaker 4 (01:23:20):
But yeah, it's like it's fucking it's dark. It's dark.

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):
But I also remember these being such a big deal,
and now it's like, you know, we're almost a decade later,
and well we're so used to these in a really
sick way.

Speaker 4 (01:23:41):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
But it's also like now I think, well, they're being
treated different, and we're doing it so much for ourselves.
Like mass shootings are now not in the name of
anything religious, they're just like men doing it, you know,
so well it is really I think it's it's it's
if it's not a religion, it's a dog, right, or
it's something you're doing it for, you know, they in

(01:24:03):
cell vibes or for Trump, whatever it is, or race like,
it's whatever. How many of them are just I'm going
to teach people, I don't know whatever. Yeah, yeah, I
mean it's just like we went for a Yeah, I'll
just think about Parkland and the cops just kind of chilling,
not really doing anything, and of Olday listening.

Speaker 4 (01:24:25):
Oh yeah, of old days what I was thinking of,
not Parkland. It's hard we get them confused.

Speaker 1 (01:24:31):
There have been so many monumental mass shootings in our lifetimes.

Speaker 4 (01:24:35):
But but I like that the mom was charged.

Speaker 2 (01:24:38):
And I believe in parents being taken in when they're yeah,
kids betting guns to score do anything. I think parents
should be fully held responsible.

Speaker 4 (01:24:47):
M hmmm.

Speaker 1 (01:24:48):
So the mother of the shooter, also just to follow up,
was sentenced to six months of home confinement and three
years of probation for shredding the document and she was
fined fifty five hundred dollars. It's pretty chill, to be honest,
that was pretty chill. Maybe she shredded a map after
it was done. It's kind of a kin to just
destroying evidence, like it wouldn't have saved anybody, you know. Now,

(01:25:09):
it's just destroying evidence after the fact.

Speaker 4 (01:25:10):
So I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
But let's get to our interview, because we actually have
a great interview that's gonna cleanse your palette right up.

Speaker 4 (01:25:26):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
Our guest today is an actor who you might know
from films like The Final Cut Tape or The Laura
dern Led The Tale. He's also been all over the
Jick Wolf universe with roles in FBI, FBI International, in Chicago,
med but you know him today as the terrorist brother
in law from hell armand Sidron. Please enjoy our really

(01:25:47):
lovely chat with Tarrek Bshara.

Speaker 4 (01:25:49):
Hi, so nice to meet you.

Speaker 6 (01:25:51):
Pleasure Pleasures on mine. How's it going?

Speaker 4 (01:25:54):
Hye? All right?

Speaker 5 (01:25:55):
Oh my god, are you terrorized? Are you terrorized?

Speaker 4 (01:25:58):
Or oh my god?

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
I have this screen light paused on like you and
Marushka Hargeta like like in each other's faces right now.

Speaker 4 (01:26:05):
So this is like perfect I was watching it earlier.

Speaker 5 (01:26:08):
Is like an angel on herth we don't deserve her.

Speaker 1 (01:26:12):
Yeah, and then you've been picked to play like two
pretty bad guys in two different episodes. I mean, we're
gonna talk about Terrorized, but we're obviously gonna need to
talk about street Wise a little bit as well, if
you're okay with that, because that's a huge episode Wise.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
Yeah, you had you had huge stunts. I mean, I
don't even know where to start. That was like an
insane episode.

Speaker 5 (01:26:32):
I actually broke I broke a finger on that episode.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
On street Wise, I believe. I mean that was you
running for that truck and everything and jumping.

Speaker 6 (01:26:40):
On it exactly, and they asked me to They asked
for me to use the stunt double and I'm like, no,
come on, I can do this, And then of course
when you're actually doing it, it's like what am I thinking?

Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
How essential was the finger? I mean was it one
of the ones that we use a lot or like yeah, okay, they.

Speaker 5 (01:26:56):
Just taped it up and we kept going.

Speaker 6 (01:26:58):
Yeah. Actually, me and Chris Maloney had a fight scene
after that that we did after I broke my finger
and they're like, do you want to stop? And I'm like,
absolutely not, Let's go yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
With a chain. Yeah, you had a lot of action.
How many takes? Were you tired running? Were you ready?

Speaker 5 (01:27:15):
So here's the here's the interesting thing.

Speaker 6 (01:27:17):
I actually sat down with christ in between takes at
a certain point and I was like, how do you
do this like six days a week for years on end?

Speaker 5 (01:27:24):
And he was really smart.

Speaker 6 (01:27:25):
His answer was really smart, He goes it took he said,
it took him about a year for his body to
get used to that amount, that volume of work, the lines,
the action, all those things. It took him a year
to really his body to acclimate to that because they
work so hard, those guys. I mean, it's like, ah,
it's really, it's really it's a really endurance game. I
think at a certain.

Speaker 4 (01:27:46):
Point, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:27:47):
And then iced teasing advice is always don't stand if
you can sit down, don't sit down if you can
lie down. So you know, and if you watch this
show you see it in an action, you see a leaning,
it's like an amazingly and you also for street Wise,
there was eyeliner, there was dirt, there was a lot
of fashion.

Speaker 2 (01:28:07):
There was like chain belts. Do you remember the process.

Speaker 4 (01:28:13):
Tattoo?

Speaker 6 (01:28:13):
Yeah? Yeah, you know, as actors, we love all this stuff.
But my friends refer to that episode as the eyeliner episode. Yeah,
I'm like, it's fun. I mean, you know, you get
to do things as characters like that that you you know,
most people normally I don't do and except for Halloween
maybe and stuff like that. But all that stuff was

(01:28:33):
so fun because it gives you half the performance. You know,
those touches, the costumes and all those kinds of things,
the chain, all those things. You kind of walk around
then with a different kind of like weight in a way,
it's like it's a little bit more of a swagger,
a little bit more of like fu, you know, versus
like hello. You know, it's very different.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
Well, it's also wild that you were like just like
such an agro person living on the streets but made
sure to have your eyeliner.

Speaker 4 (01:29:00):
That was a priority for you and your family.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
Yeah, You're out there killing kids and then being like,
let me just make sure I've got a smoky cat eye.

Speaker 6 (01:29:09):
Both of those characters are so effing evil. It's like no,
but you know, you know, Jonathan Strauss, the casting director
is like, he's a friend, a friend, he's become a friend.
I met him when he was an assistant at Todd
Dayler's office, and he was so generously put me in
both of these shows. I've actually done I think five
Dick Wolf shows at this point, and.

Speaker 5 (01:29:28):
He knows me really well.

Speaker 6 (01:29:30):
You I'm the opposite of both of those characters. But
as an actor, I really like exploring the shadow side
like that because it's like this safe space where you
can go lose it and then it's caught and it's
like all right, let's go have dinner.

Speaker 2 (01:29:42):
Oh y, yeah, because you lose it in the courtroom too.

Speaker 6 (01:29:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
In that episode, you really have gotten all the Bingo
cards and you got to like, I mean yeah, going
in between episodes because you also that arrests and Terrorized
is like a lot of action and flipping out too.

Speaker 6 (01:29:59):
Yeah, that's really fun.

Speaker 4 (01:30:00):
Yeah, and a lot of that's on the Bengo card too.

Speaker 1 (01:30:03):
Is like you have to get within inch within kissing
distance really of one of the stars, and Marishka is
like really in your face in this one, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:30:12):
Yeah, so Mariska.

Speaker 6 (01:30:13):
So that was that episode and then the first one
with Maloney, he also is like right here. Yeah, yeah,
he's a close talker, but he but he was really
smart with me. You know, both of them are so
seasoned that when guest actors come on, at least my
experience of them is like they kind of really in
a way take them under the wing a little bit.
So for me with that scene with Maloney where he's

(01:30:34):
in my face, there was certain takes where I was like,
he was right there and my character was like very
much like intimidated by him for a second, and I
would look away, but that was the actor looking away,
not the character looking away. So Maloney's like, don't look away.
He wouldn't look away, and I was like, you're one
hundred percent right, and so it completely changed that moment
of that focus of like I'm going eye to eye

(01:30:54):
with you and I'm not looking away kind of thing.

Speaker 5 (01:30:55):
It was great.

Speaker 2 (01:30:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:57):
Yeah, I thought he could out run Stabler. He thought
he could choke him with a chain. He was really
trying to get him.

Speaker 2 (01:31:05):
Well, you seem like you're you have a lot of
fun playing these two really evil guys. Is there any
kind of like what's your process or is it as
relaxed as how we're talking about it or does it
like take you know, do you have to get get evil?

Speaker 6 (01:31:18):
So I usually to get into that particular space is
finding something that I would fight for. So it's almost
like the opposite. It's not like i'd imagine like wanting
to directly hurt someone. It's getting to the place of
like what am I true, what would I life and
death situation fight for? And then apply that feeling and
emotion to my imagination of what the character circumstance. So

(01:31:41):
I'm not like acting outside the circumstance. I'm in the circumstance.
But to get to that energy and to that place
of like, you know, either quote I'm gonna kill you
or I'm gonna get you or whatever, it's like, Okay,
I'm fighting to defend something I really care about, right,
So if if I don't get you, you're gonna get
me or you're gonna get my family. So it's this
weird kind of actor trick that they use for just

(01:32:01):
getting into circumstance. And then once you're in the circumstance,
of course, you use your imagination to be where the
character is in the courtroom in the interrogation where.

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
All right, and then do you have any like tidbits
stories that our listeners would like.

Speaker 4 (01:32:19):
The inside scoop.

Speaker 6 (01:32:22):
Hmmm, what's the inside scoop? I will say that.

Speaker 5 (01:32:25):
I will say a couple of things.

Speaker 6 (01:32:27):
I mean, you know, when we shot Terrorized, that the
moment when they take me out in handcuffs at kind
of towards the end of the episode and I kind
of lean in towards Mariska. That scene was really interesting
because we shot it on the street, and everyone in
New York knows who Mariska.

Speaker 5 (01:32:42):
Everyone in the world knows.

Speaker 6 (01:32:43):
Who she is. But on the street, people would stop
and kind of like form a circle behind the camera,
and people would really kind of be like like Mariska Mariska.
And what I loved is that she was so generous
with everybody. She always was acknowledging, always talking to people,
just treating peo people with respect. So, I mean, I
don't know if that's juicy tidbit, but that's that's.

Speaker 5 (01:33:04):
The experience I had with her.

Speaker 6 (01:33:06):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I wanted to tell you interestingly,
So I wasn't supposed to do Terrorized. I wasn't supposed
to actually get that. What happened was is that I
auditioned for the first one with May Whitman, and I
think that they had an actor already in for Terrorized
that didn't work out for some reason or another, I
don't know why. And so my agent calls me and

(01:33:27):
she's like, you know, I just got an offer that
came through for SVU And I'm like, are you sure,
I've already done the show and she was like yeah,
and they want you to leave tomorrow and I'm like okay.
So then I get the script.

Speaker 5 (01:33:37):
I'm like, gosh, this guy is a nightmare. This is
going to be let's go.

Speaker 4 (01:33:42):
That's awesome. Well I was.

Speaker 1 (01:33:45):
I was obviously like googling you, and I found a
bunch of articles where you're talking about how like when
you first started out as an actor, you're you went
under a different name, right, You went under Tom Bishops,
And that's what when you did this role, you were
under or at least street Wise And I think even
for this one, you hadn't changed yet back to your

(01:34:05):
original name, which, right, your given name, which is Taric. Right. So,
and you talked a little bit about it, like how
casting directors told you, like change your name back in
the day, right.

Speaker 6 (01:34:16):
Well, you mean to Tom Bishops Yeah, So here's the deal. Like,
you know, my my family are Arabs, were I'm Arab American,
first generation born in Brooklyn, and you know, I had
just started acting professionally post nine to eleven and at
you know, every role after that for any Arab acter
was a terrorist role or a horrible, horrible human being

(01:34:39):
that was one dimensional, and I just didn't want to
play that. I just felt like I was capable of
more than that. I didn't like that, I didn't want
to represent that, and so I changed to Tom Bishops
and I worked a lot, like I did. I did
a lot of a pretty incredible work as Tom Bishops.
And then after a certain point, I thought to myself,

(01:35:00):
you know, this has started to feel inauthentic for me personally.
I think that a lot of people change their name
for different reasons and it works for them and they
feel completely fine about it. But for me, it was
and I don't regret it, but it was a fear
based decision. It was like, how am I going to
get through this business being constantly stereotyped or politicized? And
then you win, I was like, I just don't want
to I'm an artist, I'm an actor. I just want

(01:35:21):
to do my work. And so a couple of years
ago I just changed it back and it was like
people didn't know what, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:35:29):
I was told that it's not going to be the
best move.

Speaker 6 (01:35:32):
You're already kind of you know, semi established in this
you have press and this and then whatever. And I
was like, yeah, but I just have to do this.
So I changed it back to Tarak Bishara. I didn't
work for like a year and a half after that,
and I wasn't sure whether it was like people were
catching up with the fact that Tom Bishops is now
my assistant and now I'm Tarak Pishara because I still

(01:35:53):
have Tom Bishop's emails. I do that as like, you know,
send it to Tom Bishops.

Speaker 5 (01:35:57):
Pretty funny. But eventually, you know, all sorts.

Speaker 6 (01:36:00):
Out and and uh, I think it was the better
decision to change it back. And I don't regret anything.
I mean, it was a learning process. I was young,
you know, you learn a lot in the game perspective, and.

Speaker 1 (01:36:11):
So yeah, no, it's totally understandable, especially like at the
time period that you were entering the acting world.

Speaker 4 (01:36:18):
For sure, you know, how did you come up with
the name.

Speaker 6 (01:36:21):
Okay so here? So here's what It's really funny. So
mind you, back in the day, Tom Cruise was like
my I mean, I still think he's really talented, but
he was like my absolute idol. Back in the day.
I was like this guy, how do you do all this?
So that was like, all right, Tom, I was going
to do tom Bishar and tom Bishar was taken. So

(01:36:42):
then I changed it to thhom Bishara.

Speaker 5 (01:36:45):
That was taken, and so.

Speaker 6 (01:36:47):
Then then I was like, all right, we're going full bishops.
So it was thho on bishops this evolution. I signed
up with SEG and that was the end of it.

Speaker 4 (01:36:56):
Is it still your sad Carter?

Speaker 1 (01:36:58):
Now?

Speaker 4 (01:36:58):
They?

Speaker 3 (01:36:59):
No?

Speaker 5 (01:36:59):
No, I switched everything everything.

Speaker 1 (01:37:01):
And now it's like Google knows you can look up
both names and it's always you like both pop up,
you know, like it's like Google knows someone's changed their name.

Speaker 4 (01:37:09):
Was it weird? Do people call you Tom that met
you during that time?

Speaker 6 (01:37:13):
Yeah? And it's really funny because I still have some
friends that I don't see very often and they're like
hey Tom, and I'm like I kind of like who,
Like I almost forget sometimes and then they're like, oh
my god, Tark and I'm like, yeah, it's all good.
I get it. I mean, you know, it was for
that period of time. I would coach my friends when
we go out in LA and stuff, and I'd be like,
remember Tom, not Tark. And then I look back on that,

(01:37:33):
I'm like, what was I think? You know, but that's
where I was at that moment, So let it be.

Speaker 1 (01:37:38):
You know, yeah, no, I think it's I think it's
totally understandable.

Speaker 4 (01:37:41):
But I also think it's cool that you change back.
You're like, now you know this is me.

Speaker 6 (01:37:46):
I think also, you know, part of representing is really
important to me. And and you know, you know, we're
all complex, layered human beings, and I think that that
should be represented on screen, you know, across the board.
You know, you know, no matter what culture you come from,
there's going to be fantastic, incredible, wonderful people and some

(01:38:09):
weirdo marginal characters that that really kind of end up
making it into the zeitgeist on film and TV more
than the others. And so like, you know, now I'm
developing a bunch of projects as a writer as well
as an actor where you know, I kind of allow
there to be an expansive representation of any kind of character.

(01:38:29):
So it's not like good or bad or one of
the other kind of things.

Speaker 4 (01:38:32):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:38:32):
Well, and now we've had so many like there's just
there was like kind of a golden age of like
bad good people, you know, like Walter White, Nurse Jackie,
like all these people that are you know, everyone contains multitudes.

Speaker 6 (01:38:46):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:38:47):
Well, I want to know about your time with Laura
Dern on the set of Tale.

Speaker 5 (01:38:53):
An incredible, incredible actress.

Speaker 6 (01:38:56):
So that film was produced by a couple of friends
of mine, Laura and Rain Moherman and Lauren Singuly. And
you know, it was a really intense story Jennifer Fox.
It's her actually real life story, the director's story and writer.
And so I came in an audition like everybody else,
and they ended up giving me a part playing someone that.

Speaker 5 (01:39:17):
Helped Laura find the truth about what really happened.

Speaker 6 (01:39:20):
And I remember one day when we were shooting, Laura
has this really interesting thing where we start the conversation
before they yell action.

Speaker 5 (01:39:27):
I really love that and I still use that to
this day.

Speaker 6 (01:39:29):
So it's you know, we were The stuff we did
together was extremely conversational, intimate conversations, and so we would
start the conversation about you know, a minute before they
yelled action or thirty seconds whatever it was, and so
that way, when they yieled action, we were mid conversation,
just two people sitting in there talking. And that's like
one of the my favorite things as an actor to

(01:39:51):
do is you capture these super intimate moments between people
where you know, I mean, I think, you know, actors
always have to be a little bit crazy to ignore
all that that's going on behind them and just focus
on what's happening there. And that was one of those
moments where I'm like, you know, you learn so much
from people that are that, you know, talented, and they're

(01:40:12):
that successful for reason. So I just kind of took
those lessons. I kind of try to take lessons. Like
I did a film with Robin Williams. I learned a
hundred things from them. I did a film with Richard
gear I learned another hundred things from him. So you
kind of like pick up what they're doing. I love
to watch so when I'm not in scenes, I'll be
behind the camera and I'm like, what are they doing?

Speaker 5 (01:40:31):
How are they doing that?

Speaker 6 (01:40:32):
You know, Like I'm always so curious to how they
get there and how they maintain the emotion overtakes over scenes,
how they maintain emotional arcs and anyway I'm talking, Oh,
well I like that.

Speaker 4 (01:40:44):
You're always looking for lessons. I'm into that.

Speaker 2 (01:40:47):
Well, any it doesn't matter from who they came from,
any any that have like stuck with you for a
long time.

Speaker 4 (01:40:53):
It seems like you carry a lot.

Speaker 6 (01:40:55):
But well, I will tell you one lesson that was great.
It was a Robin lesson that was my first feature,
is called The Final Cut. And you know, I was
like twenty four years old and extremely green, and I
got I think I got pretty lucky. I mean I
really do. And so I got to set and well
two things. One, Robin knew everyone on the sets name

(01:41:18):
on the second day, Like I'm talking every grip, every pa,
every single person addressed them by name. Total respect. And
so for me from that moment, you know, as you
as you grow up a little bit on sets, you realize,
like you know, like people have this perception like actors
are like you know, like run run things. They absolutely

(01:41:39):
do not. The crew is the king and they deserve
to be because they work harder. They're there before you,
and they're there after you, and they continue working after
you leave you and you wrap out your characters.

Speaker 5 (01:41:49):
So the respect he had for that for the crew
was something I really I really learned. The other thing was.

Speaker 6 (01:41:58):
You know, Robin was such a genius that we will
our film was a drama, and so he would between
takes start doing Gollum. That's when Lord of the Rings
was like. So he would do Gollum from Lord of
the Rings as an actor and entertain the entire set.
And so there was certain points where I would just
kind of sit there and be entertained and be like,
I can't believe Robin Williams is like basically doing a

(01:42:20):
set for us on set right now.

Speaker 5 (01:42:22):
And then the director would be like, okay, guys, let's go.

Speaker 6 (01:42:24):
And then I'd be like, wait a minute, I'm not ready,
and he would just snap into character in two seconds and.

Speaker 5 (01:42:30):
I'm like, what on earth is going on? How did
they do that?

Speaker 6 (01:42:33):
And years over years I learned and I asked him
about this, is that he keeps the character at a
simmer of about seventy percent no matter what he's doing
on the outside, he still has the character kind of
like going. And so when he's done with whatever he's
doing between between setups, he can just fire it right
back up, and that's obviously skilled. That's obviously experience and

(01:42:56):
a kind of relaxed actor, you know, where you can
just kind of have availability to all that kind of stuff.
So those were two lessons I learned from him.

Speaker 4 (01:43:04):
A light simmer. I want to see this movie.

Speaker 5 (01:43:07):
Yeah, I think it's really good.

Speaker 6 (01:43:09):
I really do. I just wish I had the shot
to do the same work. Now, you know, years and
years later, you've learned so much that you're like, I
couldn't have had a monologue with Robin Williams, like now,
like I wish, I wish you could do it now,
you know. But but anyway, you know, you learn your
lessons and you move on.

Speaker 2 (01:43:28):
It's also just amazing that you got to work with
someone like that.

Speaker 5 (01:43:32):
You know, a religion utter disbelief, utterelief.

Speaker 4 (01:43:37):
It comes early on. That's so that is great.

Speaker 6 (01:43:41):
My dad was like, you know, back in those days,
he's like, you know, I had gone to NYU, I
major in economics, and then I'm like I'm going to
become an actor, see you, you know, and they're like, wait,
what you know? So I got that role six months
after landing in LA with no agent and no manager
and it was through. So that was I mean, it
was crazy. I really didn't think I knew how to
act and so so then when the film came out,

(01:44:02):
I sent my parents to the theater and then my
dad calls me on the way back and he goes, Okay,
I get it, and.

Speaker 5 (01:44:09):
I'm like, okay, great.

Speaker 6 (01:44:10):
So I had to do a movie with like one
of the biggest stars and legends of all time for
you to get it.

Speaker 4 (01:44:15):
Okay, good thing, good thing, you got it.

Speaker 1 (01:44:18):
Your parents would still today be like what's happening and
go back into econ.

Speaker 6 (01:44:22):
Yes, very much, so very much.

Speaker 2 (01:44:24):
Are you still is economics still a passion of yours?

Speaker 6 (01:44:32):
No, the economy, it's absolutely, But I mean these days
you kind of have to be a little bit of
an expert or else you lose your shirt. But no,
So what I do now, kind of on the side
for fun, which I'm really passionate about, is I ghost
write my mother's cookbooks. Oh yeah, she's got a restaurant
in Brooklyn, her and my sister.

Speaker 4 (01:44:53):
That's like what restaurant.

Speaker 6 (01:44:55):
It's called Tannerine's Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. So it's like Michelin
and James Beard. No, she just cooked with Daniel Boulay
the other night. Oh my god, for Jacques pa Pen's
ninetieth birthday. So we have three cookbooks that I kind
of go through. I didn't kind of. I go short
all three of them with her. And you never want
to know how much I know about pomegranates and chickpeas.

Speaker 5 (01:45:15):
I mean the amount I had to do research.

Speaker 4 (01:45:18):
Was nuts Tannerine Middle Eastern food. Wow.

Speaker 6 (01:45:22):
Yeah, yeah, cool.

Speaker 4 (01:45:25):
That's great. You're ghostwriting the that's great.

Speaker 5 (01:45:28):
Amazing to stay in some kind of creativity.

Speaker 2 (01:45:30):
Yeah, of course, I'm on the reservation page right now.

Speaker 1 (01:45:35):
No, I'm looking at a picture. I'm looking at a
picture of your mom and your sister.

Speaker 2 (01:45:39):
There's so cute, those the pomegranate seed photos, so vibrant.

Speaker 4 (01:45:44):
Wow, this is cool. Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:45:47):
For our listeners, if you live somewhere else in the country,
Tannerine ships on gold Belly, you can get this set
to yourselves wherever you live.

Speaker 4 (01:45:55):
Yeah, oh god, I want these dips.

Speaker 6 (01:45:58):
Yeah, they're good, they're good.

Speaker 1 (01:45:59):
They're I like how you're both like looking up the
page and we're like fully in a commercial now for
the restaurant.

Speaker 4 (01:46:04):
We're like forgot about the acting. I'm ordering, well, it's exciting,
you know. I'm glad to.

Speaker 6 (01:46:13):
Show Romi at the restaurant and yeah, and then they
almost filmed FBI there or did they I think maybe
maybe not, but they've got they filmed a couple of
TV shows there, which I'm like, this is ironic. It's
just weird.

Speaker 4 (01:46:26):
Yeah, you're like Rommy, you call me.

Speaker 5 (01:46:28):
Yeah, such a good guy.

Speaker 2 (01:46:31):
He is.

Speaker 4 (01:46:31):
He is. We know him through stand up and stuff.
I love him. Yeah, but I did right here.

Speaker 2 (01:46:37):
The Emoji movie, which you're in is one of my
go to sleep movies.

Speaker 4 (01:46:40):
I do put that on something.

Speaker 2 (01:46:42):
It's one of my uh it's one of the you've played.

Speaker 4 (01:46:45):
You voiced two different emojis.

Speaker 6 (01:46:48):
Yes, I did.

Speaker 5 (01:46:48):
You guys did your homework for a while. I'm impressed.

Speaker 6 (01:46:52):
Yeah, And you know, the funnest part about the Emoji
movie was doing it really fun and then also the
amount of parents that would approach, what would find out
I don't know, Like people would tell people when the
movie came out or whatever, and they would request me
to like tape WhatsApp voice notes for their kids. And

(01:47:13):
so I would go on like a rotation of like
five six a day and just do the voices and
then just send it off to send it off to
people and their kids.

Speaker 4 (01:47:22):
It's fun, like what's up, it's me fist bomp like
that kind of thing. That's so cute.

Speaker 2 (01:47:27):
Yeah, is there something you'd like to tell our audience about?
You have that movie coming out?

Speaker 5 (01:47:32):
So I have a couple of things. So yeah, So
hello beautiful.

Speaker 6 (01:47:35):
We just won the Golden Palm at the Beverly Hills
Film Festival. It just happened their twenty fifth anniversary run
like the best movie of the festival, which is great.

Speaker 5 (01:47:43):
Yeah, and they're gonna be figuring out the festival run
for that and distribution.

Speaker 6 (01:47:47):
And then I have another film that's premiering in lu
this week that I did last year. That's executive produced
by Doug Lyman, who directed you know, Mister and Missus Smith.
He's a legend. So that's called if You See Something,
And that's been doing a festival when we were just
at Woodstock with that in San Diego, and so now
we're premiering in La I'm going to go to a
Q and A for that this week and a screening

(01:48:10):
and so those two things, and then the third thing
is that Tannerine cookbook is coming out April twenty second,
really proud of it. We're doing a bunch of events
with you know, Tannerine just opened and Dumbo as well.
They opened the location the Timeout Market, so we're doing
a big party there with speakers and the whole thing.
So there's other stuff, but those are like the things
on the on the top of the horizon that I'm

(01:48:32):
proud of.

Speaker 4 (01:48:33):
So cool, awesome, Yeah, thanks, all right, Yeah, well.

Speaker 1 (01:48:38):
Everybody will go get everyone down to those movies and
buying that cookbook and go to Tannerine and order it
on gold Belly.

Speaker 4 (01:48:46):
Thank you, Thank you so much for talking to us.

Speaker 5 (01:48:49):
Thank you for having me, thank you for having much.

Speaker 2 (01:48:51):
So having all like remembering all the stories and having
all the scoop.

Speaker 4 (01:48:54):
So thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:48:55):
This is a really wonderful time. You guys took me
back to back to down memory shows.

Speaker 4 (01:49:05):
That was huge. That was huge for us.

Speaker 1 (01:49:08):
I love he what a sweet guy and also like
a cool I love I liked hearing the trajectory of
the name change, Like I totally understand why he changed
his name, and I love that he changed it back
when he felt like he could. You know, this episode
is fucking nuts. I mean, I don't even know if

(01:49:28):
there's like a I don't know if there's like a
full It just it makes me sad that like we.

Speaker 4 (01:49:36):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:49:36):
I guess the show leaves it ambiguous about how much
this woman actually had to do with anything, But to me,
she was in a horribly abusive relationship and had no
say over anything in her life. And so it's just
like so sad to me when we don't like take
trauma or anybody's like experience into account and she's just
like never gonna see her kid again, this woman who's

(01:50:00):
not real but.

Speaker 4 (01:50:00):
You know what I mean, jail for life, I mean, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:50:04):
Yeah, And I mean the woman in the real case
didn't get any jail time because I don't think she
really did have anything to do with it.

Speaker 4 (01:50:11):
But she seemed like she was.

Speaker 1 (01:50:13):
In an abusive relationship as well, you know, like she
didn't probably have like a great way out or maybe
she was trying to get a way out. She went
to go visit her family right before this happened. But yeah,
it's just it's tough. It's tough stuff the.

Speaker 2 (01:50:29):
Women criminals, like it's easier for men not to think
about their children.

Speaker 1 (01:50:34):
Yeah, yeah, and I also from somebody who is from
a family where I feel my mother is very heavily
politically influenced by my father. I do think it's possible
sometimes that men just like wear their partners down and
are like getting like, let's do this together or but
it's also I'm a feminist.

Speaker 4 (01:50:55):
Women can think for themselves.

Speaker 1 (01:50:56):
Maybe like the women, the woman in the San Bernardino
terrorist attack was like, this is what I believe, let's
go kill all these people. And maybe she was like
as intuit as him, you know, who knows. I definitely
lean towards the side of men as the mastermind and
these kind of things. And then that's, uh, that's my
mis injury showing, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:51:12):
But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:51:14):
I just.

Speaker 1 (01:51:16):
I also, Benson, don't bring Noah to a call. It
doesn't matter that it's at a playground. Let's get Lucy.
We've got Lucy on call twenty four to seven.

Speaker 2 (01:51:24):
I know, but you wouldn't have thought, but it was
gonna be five year old, I know, so crazy, so crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:51:32):
Oh I did, I did just have an audition. This
is for to be a bailiff.

Speaker 1 (01:51:38):
Oh so I had, you know, I have a lot
of docket number seven.

Speaker 2 (01:51:43):
Not for us you but a baylif for something. I'd
be like, put your phones in the bag. Yeah, you
got to get not speak to anyone.

Speaker 3 (01:51:54):
Need that.

Speaker 4 (01:51:55):
Yeah, I would love. I would.

Speaker 2 (01:51:58):
I would love to bridge the gap between my comedy
and crime life.

Speaker 4 (01:52:03):
Yeah, I mean this podcast is that.

Speaker 1 (01:52:05):
But and showing up to Luigi's trial, if you ever
get to, is also that.

Speaker 2 (01:52:08):
You know, it's like they're purposely doing it. When I'm
on the road, it's the lect I would.

Speaker 1 (01:52:13):
Say that his criminal trial is not conducive to a
road comedian.

Speaker 4 (01:52:17):
It's not. It's just not. No, they didn't think about that,
and it's fucked up.

Speaker 2 (01:52:24):
But because even when it and then the Wednesday date
that I was finally excited to go, you know, they postponed.
But my letter is not being returned. So I wonder
if he got it or if it's just in a
pile something like. I just wonder. But his birthday's coming up.
I gotta send them something. Yeah, No, a sheet of
paper that says happy Bertha.

Speaker 1 (01:52:44):
Because you can't draw, Yeah, no drawing. Can you do
different fonts? If you type, that's a great question. Can
you do can you do color inch or does it
have to be black ink no black or blue? Black black, okay,
black or blue, no colors. I mean, maybe he didn't
enjoy a little comic Sam's I don't know, something.

Speaker 4 (01:53:01):
To lighten up his mood. I don't know, just wonder
I was doing in there. Yeah, it's also sad. It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:53:09):
But I also, you know, the more we talk about
jail and you know, this case and the episode, I
you know, it's tough not to think about all the
people that are being held without due process right now
and all the Americans that are so easily okay with it.
Like that's that's what I think is. I knew what happened,
but that's been kind of the most shocking of people

(01:53:29):
being like, well, I mean, what is the first Amendment?

Speaker 4 (01:53:32):
You know?

Speaker 6 (01:53:32):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:53:33):
Well, he actually is a bad guy, So, like, you know,
it's so crazy how quickly people are okay giving up
their rights because they think it might not be them
or something.

Speaker 4 (01:53:43):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:53:43):
It's it's wild to see can't trust anyone. When I
was in Florida, my aunt Grace, who you've met. You've
met a lot of my aunts and uncles that live
in Florida. They she had a big dinner for everybody
so we could they could see us and whatever. And actually,
my aunt Julie came down, who I never see, and
she was a judge clerk, a clerk for a judge
for like her entire career.

Speaker 4 (01:54:03):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:54:04):
And all of my mom's siblings are pretty right left leaning, like,
and my mom is like a full right like not
like Maga, but they vote for Trump. And so we're
at dinner and my Aunt Julie is just railing, and
so is my Aunt Grace. They're just like I never
thought i'd see democracy threatened like this in my lifetime.

(01:54:25):
And I was just sitting back being like, get her jade, like,
I was like louder like. My mom was just watching
them talk, and I was like, keep it going, keep
it going.

Speaker 4 (01:54:33):
I mean, it's not going to change your mind or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:54:34):
But I was just like, do you are you seeing
all your siblings sitting around saying the same shit and
your kids.

Speaker 2 (01:54:40):
So you don't think anything would change her mind? You
think it's just like what your dad says, and that's
the brain dad.

Speaker 1 (01:54:46):
I think it's the Fox. I think it's the Fox News.
It's like that's where she's getting the news. And so
she considers herself an informed person because she's getting it
all from this one source and it's the wrong information.
And she sat on the couch at my uncle's house
once and goes another plane crash and I go, yeah,
maybe if he hadn't fired everybody at the FAA, these
wouldn't be happening. She was like, well, I don't really

(01:55:07):
think he did that, and I was like, I'm not
And then I don't get into it, like I'm not
gonna start, you know, like I have four days to
hang out with you.

Speaker 4 (01:55:12):
I'm not gonna do that. But like it's just.

Speaker 1 (01:55:17):
You've you have we already talked about this. Have you've
seen that podcast that that guy does. He has like
another very popular podcast about the Bachelor, I guess, But
he has this new podcast he does with his sister
where they talk to their parents and the new dad
is about it.

Speaker 4 (01:55:29):
He talks about it. The dad is just an unrepentant asshole.

Speaker 1 (01:55:32):
Like they ask him normal questions like have you ever you ever,
have you ever been wrong?

Speaker 4 (01:55:36):
Have you ever apologized or anything?

Speaker 1 (01:55:37):
The guy's like nope, Like he's just a full dick,
the dad. And it's getting to the point where I'm like,
I don't know if this is going to get anywhere,
Like it's not. You know, your dad is a wall
like of asshole, Like there's nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:55:50):
Well, because I watched Doctor Mike and he'll talk to
people about vaccines or whatever, and he'll be like, is
there anything I can say that would change your mind?
And there is, So it's like, what's the point, you know,
It's like, right, what is the point.

Speaker 4 (01:56:03):
These people do have.

Speaker 2 (01:56:04):
To lose their farms and their lives and their health,
their social security, and god knows what else until they
like realize what's that? Like? Truly, their lives need to
be so ruined and every brown and black person needs
to be gone to be blamed, you know, Like I
don't know what it's going to take for these people
because these people's kids and family died of COVID and

(01:56:25):
they still won't change their minds, like COVID is still
not real.

Speaker 1 (01:56:27):
Right Like Meazel's family, the Measles families are saying, I
don't care that my kid died. I would never vaccinate
another child, like if I had one, I just don't
preventable diseases like I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:56:37):
That's why waiting for them also to change their mind
is futile, Like it's yeah, but with your mind it
is like, so you think everyone in your family is wrong?

Speaker 1 (01:56:49):
Yeah, everyone around you? It's crazy. I mean not everyone's
just friends that like are the same. But it's just
I also think she just kind of goes blinders about it,
like when anyone, like.

Speaker 2 (01:57:03):
She doesn't feel bad that these like family like men
with families are just an El Salvador to die.

Speaker 1 (01:57:10):
I haven't talked about that with her, but like if
the world, if the news is telling you that these
are gang members responsible for hundreds of people's deaths, which
is not true, but if that's what the news is
telling you, then you're like, I'm I don't care that
this man got ripped away from his child. You know,
Like she's not like evil, you know, but she's getting

(01:57:31):
the information that tells her that this stuff is okay.
But I don't know, I like, yeah, she just puts
up blinders. Like every time I have an argument with her,
she's just like, I'm tired. Can we not talk about this?
You know, It's like she doesn't really want to get
into it.

Speaker 2 (01:57:44):
So but because my theory is like if you're a trumper,
you're either evil or dumb.

Speaker 4 (01:57:50):
But your mom doesn't fall in I know, but she's
not like a trumper.

Speaker 1 (01:57:53):
They just vote Republican no matter what, like, which is
you know what I mean, Like they wouldn't say I
don't think that, they would say, oh, like he's the
greatest president we've ever had. They're not like in the
Maga cult, you know, They're not like he can do
no wrong. But they do vote for him because I
think they think the alternative is horrible.

Speaker 2 (01:58:12):
I know, but it's like, what I guess is confusing,
is so do you not have any values then, because
if you're voting Republican, there are let's say, back in
the day, there are these ideals that you believe in,
which I guess I thought was the Constitution, And yeah,
now that it's the name that I would love to
bring up to them, but I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:58:33):
I don't care. That's why I can't snatch people off
the streets.

Speaker 1 (01:58:35):
You can't deport people without due process, like like I
like all these Republicans that are like, I'm a constitutionalist.

Speaker 4 (01:58:41):
It's like I don't understand, like, but I just I can't.
That's what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:58:44):
When the markers are constantly changing, like if the Democrat
Party got some I also don't need to be like
obsessed with my politicians, right, like I'm okay, disagree, Like I.

Speaker 4 (01:58:55):
Don't know, I you know, they're not my all be all.

Speaker 2 (01:58:57):
But if if someone was doing something I was an
be like, oh I don't really like that. But it
seems like they just can't admit that anything is a
miss and that is what is Like what are you taught?

Speaker 4 (01:59:11):
Like what do you stand for?

Speaker 6 (01:59:12):
Then?

Speaker 2 (01:59:13):
Yeah? Just not progress, like if you're just voting Republican
no matter what, even when this person is anti everything
you believe in. You well, you don't like abortion, he
gets tons of them. You don't your you like, you
don't you don't like divorce, he has a ton of them.
You know, you want America to keep its secret? He's
he has files in the bathroom, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:59:33):
It's like these people like Reagan, they like they like
the old ways like they do they they don't want
anything to progress, to be honest, they don't.

Speaker 2 (01:59:41):
Yeah, you know, but get a get to her. What's
what's let's get to next. Let's get to what would
sister peg do.

Speaker 1 (01:59:48):
Let's I mean, listen, I you guys know for what
Sister Peg do. This is our weekly segment where we
try to give you guys more info about what we
talked about in today's episode. We you know, an article,
a documentary, something, an organization, a charity. But I was
really trying to find something that kind of was like

(02:00:09):
a definitive study on like women that are like in
relationships with terrorists, you know, and like the stuff like
something like about the psychology of all that. But anything
I found were like very very heavy, like academic papers
which I didn't really think anybody was going to go
look at read And actually a couple times I clicked

(02:00:31):
and I couldn't even get to the paper. So if
anyone has a resource on something like that, let me know,
because I'd be very interested to see, you know, read
something like a study on like how how you can
extract women from those kind of relationships, like if there's
organizations that help do that.

Speaker 4 (02:00:46):
But I couldn't find anything.

Speaker 1 (02:00:47):
So what I decided to highlight was the twenty seventeen
documentary forty nine Pulses, which explores the tragic to twenty
sixteen mass shooting at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, and
it features interviews with survivors, and I just I wanted
to highlight that because you know, as a hue, as
a what I like to consider myself an alley of

(02:01:09):
the gay community, that one like really hit hard. So
it's currently streaming on Prime. I think you can also
buy it on Apple or whatever. But that will be
linked to in our stories the day that this episode
comes out and saved forever in our WWSPD highlights on
our Instagram page, which is that s messed up pod.

Speaker 2 (02:01:30):
Yeah, just thinking about the shootings and how they'll never stop.
How did you see that one of the girls that
was like in Parkland was also at FSU.

Speaker 1 (02:01:42):
No, but I've heard other stories of kids that are
at two now, like people that are like their elementary
school had one and then they go to Virginia Tech
and they have like you know, it's like crazy.

Speaker 2 (02:01:53):
And next week it's just like our brains aren't meant
to do this from like the collapse of our government
and life as we know it. And then just well,
next week's episode, we will be doing closet from season nine,
episode sixteam, So come on down more nonsense.

Speaker 4 (02:02:13):
No, We're obsessed with all of you.

Speaker 1 (02:02:15):
Thanks for listening at least we have another at least
we have each other the listeners and SVU during these Uh.
I mean, that's what's like amazing, Like I just love
being on the road now more than ever because it's
like so much my audience that it just feels like
everyone's just on the same page.

Speaker 4 (02:02:31):
And then the moment you get back to a different crowd.

Speaker 2 (02:02:33):
You're like, oh, yeah, you guys, we're not like fatally
linked in a true way, but all right, bye, guys,
That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (02:02:52):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (02:03:04):
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
and follow us personally at Kara Klank and.

Speaker 4 (02:03:11):
At Glitter Cheese.

Speaker 1 (02:03:12):
As always, please see our show notes for sources and
more information.

Speaker 2 (02:03:16):
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.

Speaker 1 (02:03:22):
Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner,
and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody
at Exactly Right Media Duck dun

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Kara Klenk

Liza Treyger

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