They'd Already Disappeared w/ Blake DeLong

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
These are our stories done done.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yay, that's messed up. An SVU podcast and another episode.
I'm Liza Traeger.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
And I'm Kara Klank and we are talking SVU episodes,
true crime recaps and you know, interviews with actors, writers,
et cetera. And here we are Gota chats, gossips, chattel intro,
a little intro. And it is December two if you're

(00:54):
listening to this day one, and that is Britney Spears's birthday,
So happy Birthday, Britney Spears.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
And also it is World's AIDS Day as well. But
I focus on the Brandy, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
I think about AIDS all the other days of the Yeah, yeah,
we're always thinking about it. And uh yeah, oh my gosh,
Happy birthday, brit brit I'm still nervous every time I
see one of her video Kevin.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
I mean, it's just like I hate you know, it
just it just kind of sucks when you have kids
with the dirt bag you date in your bad Girl era. Yeah, unfortunately,
then you're tied to this man who has nothing. Yes,
and I'm sure he sucked her well twenty years ago,
but like, that's not someone you want to have children with.

Speaker 4 (01:42):
A white man in a do rag.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
So you know, he seems like he offers very little
to the planet besides, you know, and then he's acts
like a book deals.

Speaker 4 (01:53):
I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
I don't understand people who would buy the book. It's
like read a synopsis online.

Speaker 4 (01:57):
But whatever. Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Also, so, I mean, it's wild when Instagram wants to
flager not for appropriate or inappropriate. But I'm going ham
all over the internet going it's not sex with children,
it's rape.

Speaker 4 (02:10):
Sex implies consent. Children can't consent.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Oh my god, eighty times a day on every post
they see. It's just like we need to change the language.
It's rape. They've raped. You cannot have sex with children,
Megan Kelly, Your children should be taken out of your home.
The fact that Child Projective Services is not in her
home doing wellness checks is psychotic.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
I thought about it.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
I thought about you know what I thought about immediately
when I saw that.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Clip was the two year old child being taken away
from her mother because the dad was abusive. Yeah, I
thought about that, and how we're letting this fucking pedophile
defender have teenagers in her home.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
Well, no, I didn't even think about that.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
What I was thinking of was how one time we
looked something up in like People magazine, I have had
all the differentiating types of pedophilia.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
It was worse than what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
It was like a fun article about different fetishes and
unfortunately one of them was wanting to be a pedophile.

Speaker 4 (03:08):
Right.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
One of them was like girls that are fourteen to
seventeen and it's like what like? And you wrote an
email and it got taken down. The article was taken down. Yeah, yeah,
because it was. But I thought about that because I
was like, look at this mother. I cannot believe this
fucking dumb bitch trying to excuse.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
You know what I think about othelia.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
For some reason, people don't love promising young women as
much as I do.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
And what it do for me, Yeah, I loved it.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
You gave me a bunch of merch from it, because
I think like Kumel got gifted it.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
Yes, didn't need the mug, but I did.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
And I love when It's like Connie Britton has all
these beliefs about boys will be boys, and then as
soon as it's implied that her daughter was dropped off
with all those guys in their dorm room, suddenly she's
flipping out and having an shoe. And that's what I
thought about that. It's like you're stumping for these ideas
where it's like, well, give them your daughter, then yeah,

(04:03):
give them your daughter. Then you want all these other
daughters being victimized, Like what are we doing here?

Speaker 4 (04:09):
So gross?

Speaker 1 (04:10):
And like just the way that they've gone after gay community,
the gay community, drag queens, acting like calling everybody groomers,
and then you're like, fifteen is different.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
I was talking to someone who's more optimistic than me.
She's like, they're not gonna rest. It's gonna come out,
and she goes, we'll be ready. It's gonna be people
you like from hot I go, there's no that surprise me.
But I I'm like, get the list, get them all
out of here, deep Bok show. But she thinks that
it's not gonna rest and they're gonna have to put
it out. But I don't think they're gonna I don't know,
but they Also, I don't know how much more evidence

(04:42):
you need the files versus these like I don't understand
seem very telling, but I just need him going, oh,
I used to go into the dressing room of teen USA,
Like that's all I like.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
I also just I don't.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Know why people need more and more evidence. I just
hope this all comes out. I hope these people are
I hope we bring down a pedophile ring, like I don't.
I don't understand why.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
But the only thing I'm gradly I feel like there
can be video of it happening and he could get
it with. I really truly think they're in a cult.
Like it's like people going, there's gonna be some of
the guys you like in there. I'm not in a cult.
I don't care if Bill Clinton goes to jail if
there is few like you know, I mean, put Obama
in jail, if you have proof of Obama fucking molesting kids,

(05:25):
like do you know what I mean? There's no teams like, well,
you know, we gotta protect our guys, Like.

Speaker 4 (05:31):
No, yeah, people forget that. I'm not. I mean, I know,
like we know about.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Parents that fucking sell their children to pedophile Like no,
nothing will surprise me anymore. But what I am The
one positive of this that I'm into is now if
any if I meet anyone that supports this administration anything,
be like okay, pedophile, okay, pedophile. I like just being
able to talk about Trump sucking Bill Clinton's dick, like
in terms of insults and arguments like that.

Speaker 4 (05:55):
Can you even walk me through that?

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Because I think I missed like the source material on that,
like the email says he's like a throat goat or
like what's the.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
So the email is like, Hey, did Putin have those
photos of Trump like going down up blowing Bubba? And
I guess Bubba is Bill Clayton, And yeah, so that's
all I saw. I'm not really looking into anything because
I knew he was a rape.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
I don't need this evidence.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, yeah, never, it's that of it's surprising, but that's
the one thing I can be. Like I'm dreaming of
walking into the cellar and having the podcasters sitting there,
like maybe during a fest the holiday, Like I just
want to be like, are you guys talking about what
pedophile you want to have on your podcast next? Like
I want to start harassing people with this and so
That's what I'm excited about, being like, oh my god,

(06:48):
didn't you vote for the pedophile? That's so funny. That's
so funny. So I'm excited for like being able to
go low and be insulting, be rude to people.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
But you can already see like the Megan Helly, the
podcasters on their side, I've seen this clip many times
of this guy going having sex with a fifteen year
old horrific, right, horrific two hundred years ago, totally normal.

Speaker 4 (07:11):
So I'm just saying things change, like.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, but things have changed, I know, but they're trying
to normalize this, like that's stuff.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
They want flavery back and they want women not to vote,
so yeah, they want to bring it all back.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
They'll figure out a fucking way that whatever.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
Like Jonald Well, that girl should have been wearing that
and convinced it and told him that she was eighteen,
you know, like it's gonna not be his fault, Like
that's the cult.

Speaker 4 (07:34):
You know, they're gonna find a way.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Cults find a way like Jurassic plush g assholes.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
I also, like said before for Bravo, Kanna wrote, Nia
and Danny are bad people. They're evangelicals, and people are
like all evangelicals, I go, get out of your pedophile cult.
Like I've been activated in a way that I've I've
always been, but it's easier now because they're all pedophiles.
It's obvious and you want to defend them. That's why
I say about cal you know, it's like what I've

(07:59):
been doing about religion, but now it's like, yeah, that's
the one.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
And of course, thank you to everybody for sending us
the amazing tweet or thread or whatever it is of
somebody going I want Marishka Hargete to read the Epstein
list out loud, like that's absolutely one hundred percent tea
and should be happening. There's no other person like she
should read it out loud. It should be an audiobook
available for free that gets put on all of our iPods,

(08:23):
like all of our phones, like the U two album
We Just Wake Up and the Epstein Files are read
by Marishka on our phones.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
It's also like the people being like no I believe women,
so like I heard these women say it, so I
don't know, what what do you what more.

Speaker 4 (08:36):
Do you want? Oh my god? It all And.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Pedophile cults like I don't know. I think I've been
emboldened even more.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (08:42):
Also, congrats were the Tommies.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
I hear, I'm on the phone the Tommy excited people
are the poll is good.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
People are like being the Tommies. People are messaging that
it's perfect. I mean, look, we're not at one hundred
percent on the vote, but we're not gonna please everybody.
Some people wanted us to be the Barberas and stuff
like that. I like the Tommies there. I like it
the Tommys out. They're woven throughout the entire series. There's Tommy's.
I'm like, ever mad. I'm like, everyone's raving. Eighty two

(09:11):
people voted.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
I'm like, it's over up for a minute, no I know,
but I'm like it's overwhelming.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
It's done. Where the Tommy?

Speaker 1 (09:18):
So if you're just listening to this, go to our
Instagram and on the post for the episode Desperate, which
at this point will be a couple of weeks old.
You can tell let us know if you are down
with the new name for the TMU. Tommy's. That's what
we're calling our listeners. We're gonna start opening the pod
going what's up Tommy's and uh, that's it. We finally
did it. Episode two d and fifty nine is what
it took for us to come up with a name

(09:39):
for our listeners to fifty nine where the Tommy's.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
You know what I did last week?

Speaker 1 (09:48):
I got a scalp like clean you know, have you
ever ever is this popping up in New York? This
is like big out here, like scalp spas. I want
to go and they take this camera, uh, and they
show you your scalp like magnified by a thousand, and
you kind of want to throw up a little bit,
but you can't. You It's crazy. How the strands of

(10:11):
your hair. I think to myself, I've got a lot
of hair. There's so much space in this between in
between each strand of hair, There's so much space.

Speaker 4 (10:19):
And they were like telling me.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
They were like, they were like, how often do you usher?
I was like, look, I only wash my hair once
a week. I have really thick hair, like it doesn't
get greasy. Like it's better for me to only wash
once a week. They're like, great, you should shampoo twice.
They were giving me some tips. They give you this
really really like crazy. They just shampoo your hair like
a ton of times foam. They like they tell you
not to scratch your scalp like when you're washing your hair,

(10:42):
but to just use the tips of your fingers, like
don't use your nails. But it was it was like
a spot like I was, I was on a table.
I went with a friend. We were like lying on
a table with like a couple's massage, and they like
rubbed my arms down and stuff a little bit, but
it was mostly scalp based.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Did you go with clean hair? Obviously you're like no, no, no, no, dirty.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
No.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
I went with dirty because I was like they're gonna
wash it, you know, okay, and they blow dry it.
That's the thing about this place that I went to.
They do blow dry it and they have like a
fancy dyce in but they don't do it. They don't
style it. They just dry it so you don't go
outside wet. So I left with like puff hair, but
my hair felt very clean. But I just stopped like
did it myself.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
I would do that next time I'm in LA, I
would get a scalp because I'm nasty.

Speaker 4 (11:29):
I mean, we're recording.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
This is from Wednesday when I got my gray covered
and I've gone through three workouts since. Yeah, but I
I kind of started following what you do where I've
been reblow drying dirty hair and then dry shampooing it
and then driving it out. Yeah, and was it just
curls are harder for me? But anyways, so yeah, this
is a six day old blow dry.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, and you but like also I use products, so
there's like build up on my scalp, Like I'm just
I thought it was like, I feel my scalp feels
very clean.

Speaker 4 (11:59):
I'm I'm this is not an ad.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
They're not fair, but I feel like I keep saying
people talking about these and if you have popped up
in LA and I was wondering if it was like
a thing in New York because I was telling my
sister too.

Speaker 4 (12:11):
I was like, you got to go to one of
these scouts.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
But by Gotham Comedy Club I found, well, someone mentioned
it and then I clocked it. And it's a massage
place and a foot massage place that's open till eleven,
which means I could like do a spot, go get
a fucking foot massage, and then go to another spot.
So I'm going to try to make that part of
my routine. So I'll keep you posted on what I

(12:36):
do there. I did go to the corner store. I
went to the corner store. Guys, I went to the
corner store. You're acting like you don't know what it is.
It is it. It's like it's a restaurant where celebrities
go in New York. It's Taylor Swift goes there, Lady Gaga,
but Taylor goes there a lot, and it's like lines
out the door.

Speaker 4 (12:53):
You have to get like line start at four o'clock
and everywhere.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Sin saying it's in Soho and Ali mckofsky comedian friend,
she got a reservation.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
It is so bad. It is so all the hype.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
And I again, I'm reminded celebrities have bad taste, because
remember I went to the the sushi place in the
Strip mall. That was hundreds of dollars that all the
celebs go to Sushi Plaza or Sushi Park or whatever.
And I was like, I have had cheaper, better souit
like I don't get this. And then when I performed
at Costa Chipriani that's like a really rich person private club.

(13:27):
Again I was like this soon a tartar is like
it tastes like an airport. What the fuck is going on?
So it's another kind of more evidence that celebrities and
rich people do not eat or don't know how to
eat well, or this is like their cheesecake factory, or
it's their casual night because they're so rich, so like
to them, this is like, oh, let's just go have

(13:48):
some some of this.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah, and don't you think that like everything's pr two.
It's like the people that started the restaurant know the publicist.
There's like get them to come in and blah blah blah.

Speaker 4 (14:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
I just And the thing is I ran into a
food guy earlier that day randomly, and I was with
another girl and he was like, Oh, the place sucks.
And then my other friend was like he's so negative,
like you're excited for a fun night out, Like I
fucking hate him, and I'm like, you're gonna be sad.

Speaker 4 (14:14):
He was correct. So I'll say the French dip was good.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
What they're the famous thing is a sour cream and
onion martini.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
So that's what I got. My face is shocked. It
wasn't good at all.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
What is in it? But they give you a few
chips on the side. It's just like disgusting. I don't
know what else to say, but it's just not good.
And then they have like a tomato one, but I
was like too scared to try it because of that.
So I got like a their version of a porn
star martini, which was very good.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
Those are good. I like porn stars. Those are really good. Yeah.
I love passion fruit. Yeah, passion fruit.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
We got lops. I mean, the lobster roll was fine. Again,
I've the the French dip was fine. I truly would
rather have an Italian beef from Pertillo's for twelve dollars
like it just yeah, because the sandwich was I think
forty like this little lobstros twice. It's not like it
wasn't it was probably a two hundred fifty dollars meal.

Speaker 4 (15:06):
Like you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
I'm trying to think of like where I've gone that's
been like a celebrity place that's actually been good. Like
I remember back in the day going to mister Chow's
in New York and thinking it was really good. The
food was really good.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
But I like Hillstone, Like there's things I'm also not
I eat fast food, so it's not like I'm that
hard like I like high end food, I like fancy food.

Speaker 4 (15:25):
I respect the culinary art.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, but I also I'm like really happy with pretty
bad food. So I'm like, I know how to have
a good time, so for me to be like this, Okay.
So the caesar salad did come with bagel croutons and
it had balls of cream cheese that was kind of
hard on that side, so that was like interesting, Yeah,
and then we had fries which were not good, and

(15:49):
then gries you're messing up fries. They were like two dark.
I just really didn't like it. The worst stratush sauce
was good. Oh and then they take the a zoo
like the brown gravy sauce to be fancy and they
pour it into a crystal from really high up, so
it's this like brown hot liquid or ask right, and
I'm like, none of us need this.

Speaker 4 (16:10):
They're doing like a fancy like cocktail pour on like gravy. Yeah, funny.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
The font is great, I mean, the service was great,
Like the guy at the front was so hot or
bart like, everyone was really cute and nice and it
looked great and I loved the vibes but I did.

Speaker 4 (16:26):
Maybe it's because I built it.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Up.

Speaker 4 (16:28):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, sometimes I think it's that and because Taylor's there
and I'm like, what is going on?

Speaker 4 (16:34):
What what's so special about this place? But I'm so rightful.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Allie got a reservation and I also I didn't tell
her I didn't love it. We got one more app
I feel like like, I feel like we got one
more thing. But no, that might be it. Maybe I
should have stuck with oysters or gotten a steak or something.
I don't know, but if you're known for the dip,
like the French dip, I don't know, but maybe French dip.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Anyway, I used to serve it at a restaurant. I
couldn't tell you. Is it like roast beef? Yeah, it's yeah,
it's like roast and I like horse radish on it.
Yeah yeah, okay, but interesting.

Speaker 4 (17:09):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
I mean, I'm grateful. We had a great time. I
took a pen. There was also a guy came in
and he was pretty attractive with like a woman and
they go, sorry, kitchen clothes, dude, are you know, total polite,
no attitude, no, like nothing. I was there watching he
leaves for a minute, comes back, and I could tell
he was pissed, and he goes to the bartender and

(17:30):
has like stern words and I could tell. So then
him and the door guy are talking and I'm listening.
I'm like, wait, what happened, guys, And basically he came
in and goes, this is bullshit. I played baseball for
the team in Atlanta, and it's like the Braves.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
Okay, Braves.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
But he's like, and the last time we came, they
kept the kitchen open. This is fucking bullshit. And it's like, okay, well,
this isn't gonna get you going, and you're probably like,
your date's probably drying up.

Speaker 4 (17:55):
I don't know. Yeah, And also I don't know.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
There's just like one hundreds of guys in the in
Major League Baseball, Like if you're a.

Speaker 4 (18:02):
Yankee, that's one thing.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
No. They said someone from the Giants tried to get
in and they were like, you lost, bro, And I
go going out to dinner after a loss is disgusting,
and the door guy goes, listen, we're not We're not
in Oklahoma.

Speaker 4 (18:13):
No one gives a shit. I go, amen, Oh.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
My gosh, wait, as of this episode coming out, I'm
going to see Yukon versus USC women's basketball.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
Oh my god, that will be pretty fun. Right are
you flying for it? Where are you going? No, it's
here in La. They're coming here.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Whoa.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
So I'm going to see Ice.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
And like, uh, you know my friend so like mentors
this player on the UKO women's basketball team who I've
known since she was like twelve.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
So I'm going to see her.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
And I'm excited to see some women's basketball. I'm not
very sporty. This is a big thing. I went and
got tickets on my own. You Oh my god, wait,
but are your friends coming? She's coming? But she sits
with the family. Oh, she sits with the families. So
I'm going to see her about Like I'm a go
separate but really excited.

Speaker 4 (19:03):
I'm excited. What else is up?

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Like, I have nothing. It's not vaining in La for
five days. We have nothing, truly.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
I've been recuperating from my Manhattan Monday last week.

Speaker 4 (19:13):
So, like I'm older, it's taken a while.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
When you sometimes have a night where you get so
fucked up and you're just like, this is actually going
to take a few days.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
Like I'm struggling. I'm like looking at my calendar.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
I mean I did two spin classes on Sunday, which
is psycho in a day in a day. Well, because
my friend goes to cycle Bar. She's listening and she's
like she's been wanting me to go, and she's like,
it's Taylor, It'll be free, just please and how to
measure it?

Speaker 4 (19:41):
Okay, I will say I had a great time.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
The music was great, the teacher is awesome, Like she
was really really good, and I enjoy it. Was like
temperature wise cooler, like Soul Cycle gets really hot. But
I would say Cycle Bar is less cult like and
more just like a workout in people coming together, and
in soul I've feel like, I mean, yeah, I signed
up a six days in advance the moment it opens,

(20:06):
and yeah, I feel spiritually connected and I just like
love it.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
It's your church, it is your temple, is the other
thing I.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Liked at Like for Soul Cycle, we have the weights
on our side, but you have to get the weights
from the frost, Like you have to fight for your
life to get a pair of fives.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
That's what it is.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, Like there's plenty of threes and eights with the fives,
like depending on what class and so that stress. I
don't like and there the bar is like in the bike,
but I just it's more dark, it's more sexy. At Soul.
It's just like a different vibe. But I cycle bar
and I would go back again. I want it, Yeah,
but I'm trying to get to three hundred classes by
the end of the year, so definitely not this year.

Speaker 4 (20:44):
I have like a lot of work to do. Oh
my gosh. But because I.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Didn't know how I would like it or not, I
still kept my five PM Soul cycle class.

Speaker 4 (20:52):
And then attended and then attended it me I mean.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
And then went to the corner store. So I was hungry.
I was ready to fucking eat, you know. Yeah, and
then it didn't do it for you.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
That sucks when you're like and like, we save up
all day for a great dinner, explos great. If we
just went out to eat and like fell into that place,
I would have maybe been like, oh, this was good.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Oh, but it was a build up. There was a
build up where you can't get reservations. It's so hard.
I couldn't believe she got reservations. I was like so excited,
you know. It was like her and her boyfriend are
watching SVU from season one, on, they're like seven or
eight right now.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Did you see anybody famous? Obviously you would have said,
I think if you saw anybody famously.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Because we were at the bar and it was actually
quite like. We weren't in the main dining room, but
it was towards the end of the night. Our reservation
was at nine. Oh yeah, So it was like pretty
chill and totally my vibe. And then I felt stupid
for how much time I thought about my outfit because
it was just a bar, but I was like, oh.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
It's gonna be fair. I don't want to look this
or that. However, Wow, it's cool.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:59):
Oh as a little Esther, I've been having fun. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
I opened for a Little Esther on a Friday. Oh
you did, yeah, at the City Winery.

Speaker 4 (22:07):
It was cute with those who don't know.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
She's like a comedian actress but podcaster trash Tuesday. But
we went to elementary, junior, high, and high school.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Together, and you were in Pippin together. No, not Pippin Godspell, Godspell. Sorry, sorry,
but I shot my shot.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
There's not very many people that can say that they
have someone that's disconnected to so much of their life,
like our parents live a mile apart.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
It's crazy and you guys like, yeah, you guys grew
up to basically do the same thing.

Speaker 4 (22:39):
It's really wild and you're both like successful. It's cool.
So it's nice.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
It's comfort like we don't see each other often, but
it's just like comforting.

Speaker 4 (22:46):
I don't know, well, I love that.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
I think we should get started only because this episode
is jumbo sized really quickly before we get going. Please, uh,
don't forget to get your orders in. You have to
order by December twelfth if you want to get anything.
Bye Bye Christmas. We have our new shirts up. I
got mine that says Louise and Louis and Lewis and Louise.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
And Low and I'm still waiting for mine because I
never responded with my size or address.

Speaker 4 (23:13):
So I love it.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
It's really it's it's one of those nice soft T
shirts and these shirts are great the it's a conversation
starter and it's it's like merch for those of you
that know the pod and love the pod. There's also
a few of our Christmas ornaments those are up there, discounted.
There's a few do you have children Detective T shirts
left that are up there discounted and a few other

(23:37):
SVU TMU little goodies that you could, you know, use
for stocking stuffers or anything. So get on over to
that's messed Up live dot com that has our shop link,
and let's get started, all right, guys.

Speaker 4 (23:55):
Buckle the fuck up. This one is dark as hell.
And I regret it. I regret it.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
I watch shit for pleasure and I texted I thank
you guys immediate like this. We need to get this
guy because he's such a good actor. Sorry, and then
now I regret it fully. I can't believe we have
to do this. I can't believe I had to do
the crimes. This is a nightmare.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:15):
It's also on the heels of the last episode.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Which had a very harrowing true crime, and I'm not
looking forward to this week's true crimes.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
But also be a peek behind the curtain. We're recording
this Tuesday, November fourth. This aired November fourth, twenty twenty one.

Speaker 4 (24:31):
Oh, creepy four years later. This feels so recent.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
It's season twenty three, but you know these s few
seasons creep up on us, So it's season twenty three.
This episode is they'd already disappeared episode seven, we open
on a young woman being thrown out of a coffee
shop onto the sidewalk. She's like, I was just getting
changed in then I was gonna buy a coffee and
another girl she is waiting for her on the street.

Speaker 4 (24:58):
And this girl is like.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Jones in you know, She's like, a coffee's not really
what I need right now, Like.

Speaker 4 (25:04):
She's, you know, she needs drugs.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
And the girl that just came out of the coffee
shop is like, I'm gonna hook you up tonight.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
They walk down the street, guys are cat calling them.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
SVU has like generic sort of hip hop, like I
always wonder where they get this sort of hip hop
that no one's ever heard to play, like for the music,
and then coffee girl sits withdrawal girl down and goes,
I gotta get my coat and I got a couple
of dates. And she's like, watch your back, baby, it's
heartless out there tonight. I mean foreshadowing we're never gonna

(25:34):
see anything anybody having a great day on SVU, but
she's foreshadowing that it's not great out on these streets.
The coffee girl, coffee shop girl whose name is Tanya,
leaves her there the other girl and keeps walking. She
meets up with Daria, who hands her a colorful backpack,
but when she opens it, it's filled with snacks and
she's less than thrilled. She wants cash, and she's like,

(25:55):
can I have some money. I'll promise I'll pay you back.
It's not even for me, it's for a friend. And
Daria's not having it. And then Tanya goes, have you
heard from Mom? So she and Daria are sisters, and
it sounds like Mom is not really mother of the Year.
They don't hear from her. She doesn't really know what's
up with her own kids. And Daria is worried about Tanya.
She's like, you know you're sleeping in hallways. It's not safe.
Why don't you come back with me? And Tanya's like,

(26:15):
to your dorm? I don't belong there, Like you're the
smart one. Why don't you go back and steady hard?
So she then takes off. She goes into this restaurant
where this guy named Country is butchering some meat. And
you know they're never going to show you somebody butchering
meat if it's not for a reason. And this is
a restaurant where she stores her coat and country's like
you got to eat something, and she's like I have

(26:37):
a date and she's like he can wait, and so
then hard cut to like, you know, it's like it's
it's all like all right, life is on the street.
It's hard, but she's getting by. She's got a place
to store a coat. This guy's maybe gonna give her
a free dinner. And then it's like smash cut to
her running along some dark, abandoned street, freaked out.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
She ducks behind a dumpster.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
She calls Daria and says he raped me and choked
me and tried to kill me. She says, I want
to come stay with you. I'll get out the drugs.
I promise, but then she's interrupted by someone grabbing her,
pulling her upwards, covering her mouth that she screams, and
you hear a voice go scream all you want.

Speaker 4 (27:14):
Nobody cares. It's really creepy.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Oh yeah, And then we cut to the precinct where
Finn and Liver having a little morning chat at the
coffee machine, talking some light shit about McGrath when they
hear a woman yelling it's Daria. She's frantically shouting all
these details about Tanya's message to Rollin's this Uni brought
her in.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
He's like, she jumped in front of my car, yelling
about rape.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
And then they go Daria follow us, and then they
cut to the credits, which is a weird stopping point,
but I'm gonna let them go with it because maybe
it's like they ran out of time. So top of
act one, Daria's playing the voicemail for Rollins and Benson.
It's exactly what we heard, only Daria didn't listen to
it until that morning. She's like, I was studying and
when Tanya calls me, it's usually for drug money. I

(27:57):
last saw her last night in East Harlem. She hangs around,
she's homeless and she's a survival sex worker.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
And then she explains that their mom.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Took off last spring Tanya started partying with the wrong people,
and Benson promises, like, We're gonna do everything we can
and ask for Tanya's contacts.

Speaker 4 (28:13):
So now they're at.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
City Haven, which is I think like a shelter of
sorts or a it could be like a home, and
they're speaking to an employee and she's shocked that the
NYPD cares about a missing on how sex worker you know,
she's like, oh, I'm surprised you guys are even here.
And then she's like, you got to go talk to
Snowflake and Missy and one says, I haven't seen her

(28:35):
in a while, and the other says, well, maybe she
went away with a date. They take you away sometimes.
And Velasco he is extremely he's like at peak in
this episode, like everything he says, I'm like shut up.
Like he goes, you know, her dealer, And then she says,
you should go talk to Beauty.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
She might be over unpleasant.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
So Beauty is Tanya's friend who was in rough shape
the night before, the girl she was with. She says,
someday the whole world smells like cat pee, and you know,
ain't that the truth?

Speaker 4 (29:06):
They tell her.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Daria is really worried about her sister, and she's like, yeah, duh,
she's always worried. She keeps showing up here bringing your
snacks and gatorade like she's on some kind of outward
bound trip, which I kind of thought.

Speaker 4 (29:18):
Was funny, Like the sister's in college. She's like, what
am I gonna do?

Speaker 1 (29:21):
I don't really have cash to give you, but like,
here's some kind bars you know, and then Velasco goes,
who'd you two go on dates together? Sometimes meet anyone weird.
It's like, dude, do you think it's mostly cool dudes?
Anyone weird? And she goes, they're all weird, and she says,
I taught Tanya how to survive though. Don't go with
drunks they take too long, and stay away from nerdy

(29:43):
white guys. They're always the psychos. Wow, she really nails
it season twenty three. They fucking are like literally nail.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
On the head.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Stay away from the nerdy white guys. They're always the psychos.
I say that as someone married to a nerdy white guy,
but without the manual dexterity to commit murder. Okay, So
she explains to them how she last saw Tanya headed
to Countries to get her coat. They were supposed to
meet up, but she never showed. Beauty didn't text her.
She figured when Tanya starts flying, she doesn't land for

(30:14):
a while, and then Beauty goes, stay in heaven as
long as you can, That's what I say.

Speaker 4 (30:19):
So like, if you're high, stay high.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
It's better than like facing the reality of I think
their day to day. So at Countries, he's worried about Tanya.
This guy lets the girls stash their shit with him
because they have no homes, they have nowhere to keep
their stuff, and then he gives them the backpack, like
she dropped this off last night. They show it to
Dary at the precinct and she's like, yes, this is
the one I gave her last night. Unfortunately, no one

(30:42):
has seen Tanya, but they're not giving up. Just then,
Missy and Snowflake show up. They tell the cops they
haven't heard from Tanya, but dot dot dot Beauty is
now missing.

Speaker 4 (30:53):
Uh oh.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
With these names, they'll sound like horses, like you could
be talking about a stable of horses.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Snowflake and Beauty are exactly yeah, yeah, Snowflake is a
Snowflake is a gorgeous white horse. Benson and Alaska now
are getting the story from missing Snowflake and they're all
hanging out. Beauty went to score, they said, but she
never came back and it's been four hours, and normally
they wouldn't think anything of it, but with Tanya also missing,

(31:23):
and they're like, well, maybe she's on a date, and
they're like, no, she would not go on a date
without her bag.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
It's like she's let people be sex workers and do
drugs so then they're safer. Yeah, Like it's it sucks
that you have to be in such the darkness to
do these things.

Speaker 4 (31:38):
I know.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
I was like it may really be more dangerous, Like
let the ship be legal so everyone could be safe.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
I know. I was literally thinking to myself, like I
wish there was like an app, a tracker for people
that are in the like maybe there is, like so
that it's like if you're not, you have to check
in with like certain people are connected to your network
and you have to check in every few hours and
if you don't, you know what I mean, Like I
wish someone would develop the technology for this, but people

(32:04):
don't care about these.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
People, so that's probably not been invented. But you know
what I mean.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
It's like they hate it when it's safe. That's why
everyone hates OnlyFans. They're like these bitches making money and
being safe in their home and choosing who they work.
Oh my god, that's why it makes people so fucking mad.
It's like they want the like these women to not
feel safe. It's so sad.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
I saw the most the funniest video of this, like
conservative blondie trying to tell these like four only fans
girlies like about how they're worth more than five dollars
a month and why are you debasing yourself? And like
all you're doing is telling men that all you are
boobs and a vagina. And the girls are all like,
that's your opinion, and they're all just like honking their
own boobs and being.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
Like we love it. Like and it's so funny.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
They're clowning her so hard, and she thinks she's so
right because she's just like a little Christian little a
little Christian right winger girl.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
It's it's such a funny.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah, because her Christian male counterparts really respect her.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
They really respect her. They want the best for her.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, they want her in leadership. Okay,
so they're like, there's no way she wanted a date.
She would not leave without her bag, like she went
she didn't want her dealer going through it, so she
went to grab some drugs like she's not on a date.
They dump out the bag. It's a lot of stuff.
We've got like full bottle illusterine. We got a lot
of stuff in there. And then there's like a little

(33:24):
mirror and they're like that was her. Grandma's like, don't
lose that, and then the girls leave. Velasco sums everything up,
two girls in two days, and Benson goes, I don't
have a good feeling about this, and she's like, check
the cell phone records, and he's got Beauty's phone, and
then he also tells She also tells Alasco check with
the local precinct. Let's make sure they didn't ignore any

(33:44):
reports of missing women. I'll I'll tell you right how
they did. They absolutely did. You don't even need to
go over there. They did so at the twenty seventh precinct.
Velasco and Rollins are like waiting there and this young
guy comes out and goes, sorry to keep you. My
sergeant says he's still busy, and they're like, we'll wait,
and he's like, I probably shouldn't tell you this, but
he left for the night.

Speaker 4 (34:03):
What kind of games are we playing here?

Speaker 1 (34:05):
You're just making two valuable detectives sit at your precinct
and wait for you while you've already fucked off and
gone home. The UNI is like, well, a detective told
me to give you this file, but it didn't come
from her, and it's missing women from the neighborhood for
the last few years, street workers addicts. He says, nobody
anybody is really looking for and the file says nhi,

(34:26):
and the cop goes, oh, yeah, that's how slang for
no humans involved.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
Gross.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Gross, Like come on, I just wish this show wasn't
so grounded in reality.

Speaker 4 (34:37):
At times.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, we talked about the fantasy like criminal justice system
of it all, but then they get real.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
This is like no real cause it's like you could
also just ignore these cases, like we know you're going
to anyway, you don't have to on top of it,
put like a cruel piece of slang to label it,
you know what I mean. It's like just insult to
injury so velasco and Rollins looks stunned by the cruelty.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
The file has a bunch of photos in it.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
It's maybe ten girls, and a couple of them look
a lot like Tanya and Beauty, and Rollins is like, wow,
he's got a type. And Philosokho's like h and She's like,
we might be looking at a cereal So now at
the precinct, we're in the huddle, we're around the whiteboard.
Photos are taped up. We've got three more missing girls.
I guess out of those ten, some of them they

(35:22):
found or whatever, but three of them are are missing.
No clue who reported the missing. The phone numbers that
they left when they reported don't work anymore. The girls
were all eighteen and over, so the cops can't do
much because they're adults, and no one ever really came
back to the precinct, like following up or looking for them.

Speaker 4 (35:37):
So Velaska thinks, you know.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
These women could be from out of state and they
went home and lives like or they could be dead,
you putts. So now they're at the Emmy's office and
he's a big part of this episode. This is Emmy
Abel Truman. He's the white male dead pan Melinda, and
they're looking for victims and he's like, oh, like, I
have these two cases from the Bronx from ten years ago,

(36:00):
from when I first started over here. I call them
my Christmas Angels. And it's like, Buddy Rudnick is pretty recent.
He's still pretty recent, Like, let's chill with the cute
nicknames for your victims that are on the table, like
the Christmas Angels. He's like, I was with my daughter
a Rockefeller Center when they got called in, it's like,
what a glorious Christmas memory. And they're like commenting on

(36:20):
how young looking all.

Speaker 4 (36:21):
That the Rockets have to audition every year.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Shut up, Yeah, I watched her YouTube and this girl
has been doing like six or seven years, but she
has you have to audition every single year.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
So these girls that he's got pictures of up on
his little screen there, they look eighteen or nineteen, he says,
probably drug addicts on the fringes, both strangled and raped,
not idd yet, like, so there's no idea for these girls.
And he's not sure it's the same guy, and they're
like why not, and he goes, well, only one of
the victims was partially eviscerated, meaning her liver and her

(36:55):
intestines were removed, and uh good, he says, for no reason,
as if there's ever a great reason. But they said
he was a first timer because it was crudely done.
He used a butcher's knife and a meat cleaver. So
that's obviously making the cops think of country. This man
who works at like a barbecue meat joint, I think,

(37:15):
I mean, I think it's barbecue. He's chopping up huge
meat things and he's from South Carolina, we find out,
so I'm putting things together. But they're at his restaurant
now and they're all packing up his knives, like taking
them with a warrant, and he's like, what's going on
And they're like, we have a warrant and I'm like,
based on what that he owns knives and he knew
the girls like this feels like I don't know how

(37:36):
they got this warrant.

Speaker 4 (37:37):
But they woke up.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
They definitely got a judge in the middle of a
poker game, and he tells them his story. He's like,
I moved up to New York from South Carolina ten
years ago. I went back down home for a stretch
when my dad died. And Rollins is like, oh, and
also when you arrested, so you could do jail time
and he's like yes, And then I came up here
after him. I'd served my time and I opened this
restaurant three years ago. And is that when you got

(37:59):
fly with the girls. And he's like, I like to
help them out. They're good people. And then they're like,
come downtown with us. So now they've got country in
cement room bars and he's telling them I'm a good guy,
which I have to tell I don't. I'm not getting
a guilty vibe from country. But also don't say you're
a good guy, because it's always like bad guys that
say that. And then they bring up, well, what about

(38:20):
this assault that you went to jail for, like assault
with a baseball bat?

Speaker 4 (38:23):
And he's like, I was protecting myself.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Spartanburg PD has always had it out for me, and
I believe it. The cops being against a black man
in Spartanburg, South Carolina. I buy a story and he
goes Sunday night, I was closing up, but they've got
him on street cameras in his station wagon going up
Third Avenue, and then they've got him going north at
eleven pm with a person in the car, and then

(38:45):
thirty minutes later coming down Second Avenue all alone. So
what's up, dog? We're tearing apart your restaurant and your
car right now? Are we going to find Tanya in
Beauty's Blood? And he's like, you're not gonna find shit.
I look out for these girls. And they're like, well,
you have three months left on your parole. You lied
to us. That's enough. To send you back to prison.
What did he lie about?

Speaker 4 (39:05):
Did he? I mean, I guess he lied about going.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Back down to South Carolina because his dad died, and
it was also to do prison. That feels like not
a lie, that is like a violation of parole. But
they're trying to scare him and it's working. He's very
frightened that they're going to send him back to prison,
and they're leveraging that, and he's like, okay, okay, listen.
I took Tanya to a date uptown. She didn't want
to take the bus, so I dropped her off. She
said the guy was a regular, always paid, But I

(39:29):
didn't see the guy.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
I just dropped her off and I left.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
And he's like, Tanya's gonna pop up soon, and when
she does, you're all gonna eat ribs with us and
apologize to me. And they're like, give us the address
where you dropped her. Why haven't they like tracked her
phone call to Daria, Like they haven't tracked, Like we
were taking us a long time to get to Inwood
in the Bronx, where we could just be like checking
cell phone tower pings and finding out where this girl
called from. But anyway, we've just instead decided to terrorize

(39:55):
this restaurant owner who helped sex workers.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
But now they're an inn wo Belasco and Rollins or
checking it out.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
I do love that helping sex workers is suspicious too.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah, right, you set up a coat rack to lure
them in here, like it's crazy he does have, Like
it's it's such a sweet, like small act of kindness,
just like have a coat rack for these girls like
in his restaurant so that they can like leave jackets,
like we know New York. It's like when you leave
New York, you got a dressed for like ten types
of weather. You've got six bags with you in case

(40:27):
you have to go from day to night. And it's
nice that he does this. I wish I had a
fucking place to hang up a bag half the time.

Speaker 4 (40:33):
When I was in New York. So they're in Inwood, it's.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
The middle of the day, they're checking stuff out, they're
near the they're near the area where they got she
got dropped off, and there's uh like kind of an
abandoned warehouse. And then they run into these skateboarding kids
and this one kid, has there ever been a non
abandoned warehouse. That's what I'd like to know. Are there
any functional warehouses happening in New York? Show me one,

(40:59):
especially it is city where like real estate is so expensive.
It's like, let's get rid of these warehouses, put up
a fucking like, you know, an art space or.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
Something, which I'm sure some of them are.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
But anyway, they run into these skateboarding kids and this
one kid starts talking to them and goes, oh, are
you guys looking for the vampire? And they're like, we're
vampire slayers and apparently this vampire lives right inside the
boarded up warehouse building right behind them, and he explains.
This kid explains how vampires work to them, which is
like very cute, and they're like, yup, Sunday night, he

(41:32):
was in there.

Speaker 4 (41:33):
We had our stakes ready.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
And that's like so crazy to me that these kids
all are like so intuitive that they're like, yeah, there's
like a freaky creature in there and we need to
kill him. But they show they show him a picture
of like Country's car. He doesn't recognize it. And then
they show a picture of Tanya, like have you seen her?
And he's like maybe, and then he's like I gotta

(41:57):
go and he gathers up his vampire slayer crew and
they bounce and Rollins says, told you we might get lucky,
and Blesco goes af to you, Buffy. But it is
really funny because they basically get out of their car
and they're like, how are we gonna find anything? And
then the first kid they run into goes, oh, there's
a vampire in that warehouse. I get it. We don't
have time to do a lot of it. It's a

(42:17):
forty two minute episode. But they found a useful child
very quickly, so they break the lock off this boarded
up building and go inside. I mean, they don't have
a warrant. If you think something's really in there, get
back up. It's it's freaky. It's giving me sounds of
the lamps because they've got their guns out and their flashlights.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
I know.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
But if it's abandon and no one owns it, the
should be in there, so I don't think they need
a warrant.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
That's true, but it is locked, so you're opening you're
cutting open a lock.

Speaker 4 (42:46):
But yes, yes, we got to get in there. They could.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
They also can always go we thought we heard a scream, right,
is not what they always do, or that the.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
Kids felt like they were in danger, like they can yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The kids said they saw a kid go in there. Whatever.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
So Rollins has ditched her chik outerwear for that sort
of like swat team casual outfit that they wear sometimes,
Like you know, it says police on the back. It's
like kind of like it's you're like, I don't think
there's anything bulletproof under there, but it looks like there
could be. It's kind of cute. And then Velasco immediately
clocks a smell. He's like, what is that smell? And
inside it's immediately very dexter coded, like we've got jars

(43:20):
on shelves with god knows what inside, plastic sheeting up
on the walls.

Speaker 4 (43:24):
It's freaky.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Immediately immediately, this is not a fully abandoned warehouse.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
Someone's been in here. Okay. When they open the door
to one large room.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
You kind of think it's like mannequins or something, but
it's a bunch of woman's dead bodies pose like it's
a dinner party and done done. They're mummified. There are
a lot of them. It's very gruesome. And they go
into another room adjacent and they find Tanya and Beauty's

(43:54):
bodies lying on tables with sheets covering them, like the
mummification process has not begun with them because they've only
been missing now for like a day or two. It
is also kind of wild that this guy would go
after like two girls so close back to back, but whatever,
it's tragic these two friends that are like lying there

(44:16):
dead on these tables together, so and they were literally
just trying to take care of each other. Top of
Act three, Benson and Finn are on the scene. They've
got twelve mummified victims plus Beauty and Tanya makes fourteen.

Speaker 4 (44:29):
Velasco's like a called bario.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
So the sister knows they're putting a rush on the
evidence from Beauty and Tanya because it's only been forty
eight hours since their deaths, so there might be a
chance that this guy left DNA.

Speaker 4 (44:41):
But and then Emmy Truman is there.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
And he's like, this is a mass fatality over time,
Like these are not bodies that have naturally mummified.

Speaker 4 (44:49):
This was DIY.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
And you know, Benson's like, explain how you would DIY
mummify someone?

Speaker 4 (44:55):
The technique he.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Says, I with YouTube, you could do anything I know,
truly truly read it.

Speaker 4 (45:01):
They've got it.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
But yeah, he goes, the technique hasn't changed much since
the Egyptians. You remove all the art organs, salt the body,
stuff it with linen, and let the desert heat do
the rest. And I'm like, this is just so close
after we in Egypt in Egypt, so yeah, and then
she go. He goes, but this guy, he let the

(45:22):
heaters from home depot do that part and then he
put them, he said, put in a cage to keep
the rats out. So I guess he had the girl's
bodies like in cages to mummify them. But it's he says, well, mummification,
he tells them still preserves DNA and fingerprints, so we'll
see what we can find. But he also notes that

(45:44):
this is the psycho who did this had technique that
improved over time, because I think if he's also counting
the girls that he found in the Bronx onto the
list of girls that this guy has killed, like he's done,
He's moved on from the butcher knife and he's like,
everything is very meticulous, so I really doubt you're gonna
find his DNA.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
And then Tommy alert. McGrath shows up.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
McGrath shows up and he's like, oh, what's that smell?
And they're like, oh, he goes the I mean, he goes, oh,
do you mean the smell of old wet book with
a touch of cinnamon. And then he says, well, with
mamma fying, there's very little scent because the bodies don't rot.
And I guess because you've taken out all of the
blood and organs.

Speaker 4 (46:26):
I don't know, and then you're drying out the flesh.
I can't. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Yeah, it's so gross, and I don't know what the
cinnamon will either.

Speaker 4 (46:34):
This podcast, I'm not learning the problem. No, no, no, we're
not learning mummification.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
We're not.

Speaker 4 (46:38):
We're not. We're simply not.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
But maybe he just puts a little cinnamon in the air,
like he's got a glade plug in.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
Or something, so that he doesn't have to fully smell it.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
But he described Okay, this is so gross, but he
describes like how the guy removed some of the organs
and he said he made cuts in the back of
their heads and pulled their brains out that way to
keep their faces intact at which is pretty gross. And
then Benson's like you can see McGrath is like losing
color in his face, and she's like, you want to

(47:08):
go talk outside, babe, And he's like clearly out of
his element.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
So what is he gonna do? Yell, let her to
solve it faster, Like yeah, yeah, yeah, weaster. The smell
is disgusting because.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
No matter how often I've seen that episodes, I always
do a rewatch right before we record. Not this one,
I do. Oh yeah you really, I fully engage in
what you're telling me. I'm like, wait, what, I don't know.
I don't know what the guy and the meat cleaver
looks like, like I kind of a just disassociated.

Speaker 4 (47:33):
Yeah, listen, there's even though I thought to do it.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yeah, it was my idea.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
There's some episodes we have to. I think it's because
it reminds us a lot.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
If you're a dexter head, this reminds us a lot
of the New Blood plot line, where the guy is
like keeping a museum of women, but he doesn't mummify
those women. He kind of like keeps them in these cases.
And maybe because they're in the middle of the fucking
of state New York, they because it's cold, they stay
not rotting or something, but either way.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
It's a similar. It's also the new Blood guy was wealthy.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
He had a lot of money, so he could you know,
they were like whatever the air was down there and underground,
Like this is obviously someone's illegally using a warehouse, right,
I mean maybe he bought a warehouse, so I don't know.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Yeah, but the guy also on Dexter there was a
hunting element, much like the episode Hunting Ground. He hunted
them in the woods and killed or or no, he
would just kill them in that room.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
But then didn't he kill one girl in the woods
somebody get out of the room.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Well, he would shoot them in the woods with a trank,
drag him back, assault them, and then let them out again.
Oh and then their whole thing is if you want
to die, you can hit the you can touch the
electrical fence at the end of his property.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
That's right, Okay, thank you for minding.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
So it's like it was like a catch and release
torture sitch or you know, take your own.

Speaker 4 (48:54):
Life ye fence.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
And then also a collector's situation. So it's like, really
that guy was true fucking deranged. They always find new
ways to up the Anti over at Dexter, but Benson
and brings McGrath outside. So outside McGrath is shook and
Benson tells them, well, we have this guy country and custody,
and he's like, these women were butchered and then laid

(49:15):
out like some kind of goddamn dinner party. And he
goes make the case because this is evil, like as if.
Benson's like, this one seems pretty chill, I'm gonna kind
of slack on it, like I mean, this man and
so I Velasko rolls up, like I said, sounding even
more deadpan dope than usual. He's like, how's McGrath doing.
I didn't see expect to seem so upset, and then

(49:36):
he goes, I couldn't look at him, but I had
to what these women went through.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
Benson, I know you've seen some stuff.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
And she's like, Babe, I've been in the game for
twenty plus years and I've never seen anything.

Speaker 4 (49:48):
So fucked up.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
So it's nice to see season twenty three Bens and
still being like fuck. But even though she's seeing stuff
that's so fucked she still holds her own like all
of her terror and like, oh my god, I've never
seen and this is like in her eyes, she doesn't
like sweat or throw up or start hyperventilating, Like she's
just kind of like, Okay, this is new, but she's
gonna you know, and she goes listen velasco you never

(50:11):
get used to it, to any of it. So now
they're back talking a country who I don't think anyone
is actually buying as the fucking purp here like they're
showing in pictures of the victim. He's like, they all
disappeared since you've moved up to this area. And in
the little slide show of the girl's faces, they've also
included the mummy pictures and guess what country doesn't love
those pictures.

Speaker 4 (50:30):
He's like horrified. He's like, what the fuck is this?

Speaker 1 (50:33):
And they're like, well, this this is what we found,
and you're our only suspect, and if you've got anything
to tell us, you better cough it up.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
And then he.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Recognizes one of the girls. He's like, whoa, that's Nissi Shenie.
Like I drove her to a date too, same place
as Tanya, and like he never mentioned to the cops
I've driven girls there before.

Speaker 4 (50:53):
Wow, And why would he trust the cops?

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Yeah, they're gonna They would probably be like, you're the pimp,
why are you taking them?

Speaker 4 (50:59):
We'll arrest you. Yeah right.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
But the murderer also like, why are you having girls?
Always dropped off in the same place, like he's been
doing this for ten years. It seems like he would
have been caught by now. But again, no one wants
the girls. We have the Long Island killer who kept
on killing sex work. That's forever so true. I think
there was just a development in that. I think there
was just a development in that case because he wanted

(51:22):
to get tried all the victims separate, separately.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
They didn't allow him together. Yeah, oh okay, I think
that is really new. I hope they didn't do that. Okay, cool, cool,
cool cool.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Let me let me just know that makes double check
because that's what I was reading.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
Yes, single trial set, single trial set.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Yeah, fuck you, dude, he's going to try to, like
one by one, you know, get them kicked out, and
it's like they're linked. Bro, you you fucked up? Like
why are we even wasting the courts time? Plead guilty,
go die in jail.

Speaker 4 (51:52):
But he's.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Yeah, I was gonna say something, but it's like of
course he's sick and it's power, right, So he's still
trying to fuck with these women. He's still trying to
fuck with their families. He's like darkness.

Speaker 4 (52:06):
Yeah, so of course, but I'm so glad it's a
single trial. Oh my god. Yeah yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
So anyway, he says, you know, I dropped me see
at the same place as Tanya, and the guy she
was meeting was one of the nice ones, she said,
And Finn's like, stop fucking with us. You know these
girls and you know what happened to them, and Country
starts crying and saying I'm sorry, I'm so sorry over
and over again and that like it's like they've broken him.
And then knock knock, the Emmy has something for them.

(52:34):
Back with the medical examiner Truman, he tells them all
twelve of the victims that they found the mummified girls
were strangled. They were all sex workers. They found frostbite marks,
track marks, and one had scarring on her uterus from STDs,
so they're surmising that they're all sex workers.

Speaker 4 (52:52):
They all had personal effects.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Some of their body cavities were stuffed with their own clothing,
and it's just more infhoto go on. I'm just like, oh,
is this just disgusting detail? But no, it's like good info.
So he said, we expanded the search to the tri
state area, what's up Connecticut and New Jersey and to
women missing in the last ten years, and they got
two hits a missing New I'm like, there's only two

(53:14):
women missing in the Tri state area in the last
ten years, like what? And one is a missing New
Jersey woman from six years ago, and she's basically wearing
in a photo that they find of her. She's wearing
like the same coat that is like with her body.
And then another victim from Connecticut is idd through a
charm bracelet that is on her mammified body that is

(53:35):
engraved with her name and birthday. And that victim's name
is Meredith Hart. And so the New Jersey victim sadly
had no relatives on file, but the police in Enfield, Connecticut,
are still trying to track down Meredith's family. The girl
in New Jersey, it turns out, though, was reported missing
one week after Country started his sentence in South Carolina,

(53:55):
and Meredith went missing a year after that while he
was still in prison halfway through his bid so assault
with a baseball back gets you like four years in prison.

Speaker 4 (54:03):
Like, okay, so.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
Guess what if they were both taken while country was
in jail, then guess what Country's not our guy. The
real guy's out there and now he knows we found
his hellhole. So top of the next act, McGrath is
giving a press conference outside this dilapidated building where this
guy's mummy. Crypt was like, I don't understand why this
Tommy gives a press conference for like every single case.

(54:26):
I feel like that's part of his I've seen some
police press conferences. To me, they're rarely outside of the
place where we found all the bodies, you know what
I mean. Like it's kind of wild, but it's very TV.
So they're pledging to find the guy. We're working around
the clock, YadA YadA. Somebody knows this killer, Benson says.
They sell him coffee, they deliver his takeout, somebody works

(54:49):
with him, and then she goes. NYPD Crime Stoppers is
offering a thirty five hundred dollars reward for any information
leading to the arrest.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
Kind of a low ball.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yeah, I didn't know what you were getting at. So
I was sitting there being like, huh, it's.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
Thirty five one hundred dollars to a serial killer who
mummified twelve women and had too ready to go, Like
a serial killer that killed fourty women? Were like one
month of a studio apartment rent. We'll give you that.
Will that work?

Speaker 4 (55:18):
Do you have any info?

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Like?

Speaker 4 (55:19):
Are you kidding? It should be like one hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
I just like, look at all the cars that you
see in New York one eight hundred cop shot, right,
it's like one hundred thousand dollars. I think if you
have any information about an NYPD officer getting shot, but
fourteen women getting murdered and mummified and sexually assaulted thirty
five hundred dollars? What is the division of that? What
is that three hundred dollars per woman? I mean, it's crazy.

(55:43):
I can't even I.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Did it, Like, I wonder what the SV like the
writers like, if it was like, oh, we don't value
these people and this is a point, or if it
was just like a random error or realistic like I
do under because they everything they do is intentional.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Yeah, so won and I just googled it so that
I can correct myself. It is a ten thousand dollars
reward for if someone gets anyone involved in the shooting
of Alice a New York police officer, and that's not
even necessarily if they end up dead. Anyone that's involved
in a shooting of any kind with a police officer
ten thousand, but thirty five hundred for these girls.

Speaker 4 (56:19):
I don't I'm not, I don't get it, but I
did clock it.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
It seemed especially it's true this episode's only from four
seasons ago, Like yeah, it's not like it's season one
where they're like three to five hundred dollars is like
ten grand today or whatever. But anyway, now Velasco is
info dumping on Finn. He's like, so, the owner of
the warehouse died ten years ago. He died without a will.
He owned fifteen buildings in the neighborhood. The family's in

(56:43):
court fighting over it. They all live in Wuhan, which
is like a very funny place to be like in
twenty in twenty twenty one, to be like, this whole
family is from the origin of COVID. Like that's like
you could have said Beijing, you could have said many
other like places in China, but they said Wuhan.

Speaker 4 (57:01):
So anyway.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
So then skateboarder kid Jamal comes up and he's like,
I told you guys about the vampire and I love
this kid. And they're like, have you seen the vampire
and he goes, oh, yeah, like I've seen him before.

Speaker 4 (57:15):
He's white like a.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Ghost, he's tough, and sometimes he's in a pickup truck
and they're like, you notice anything about the truck. He's like,
not really. So then they found out that they have
possibly located the Connecticut victim's mother. So in the next scene,
Daria is about to have the sheep pulled back to
reveal her sister's body and Benson's like, Babe, you don't
need to do this. We've already ided Tanya with her

(57:37):
dental records, and Daria's like, no, I really need to
see her.

Speaker 4 (57:41):
And then the Emmy Truman. He goes, did you bring
the photo of the two of you?

Speaker 1 (57:45):
Like I asked, and she pulls out a framed picture
of the two of them and he's like, put it
down there. She puts it on a table like sort
of near the body, and he tells her, I want
you to look at the body very briefly and then
look at the photo because that's really your sister, that's
who you want to remember. And I feel like this
is all like extremely thoughtful and extra mile of this emmy.

(58:05):
Like we've seen a lot of sheets pulled back and
a lot of hysterical mothers seeing like tiny kids on
the table, and no one's ever suggested anything like this.
It's like very not to shade Melinda or anything, but
this is like a very extra mile move of this emmy,
I feel. So they pull back the sheet, she cries,
She runs to the frame photo and looks at it,

(58:26):
and then she leaves, and the emmy says it's very
common to insist on seeing the remains and lives, like, yeah,
I've never She's like moved. She's like, I've never seen
this little photo trick before, and he goes the brain
doesn't need to retain an image of a cold, traumatized body.
I was trying to encourage the recall of happy memories.
And there's like this moment where Live is like speechless.

(58:47):
She touches the guy on the arm and she's like
basically makes like an eye movement of I gotta go,
but she doesn't say anything like she's very touched by this.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
Some moment, and definitely it feels like something.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
Even though this is definitely in the in the Graziano
years of the show, wherever all the crimes are so
fucking dark, that little moment kind of seems like something
that would have like a bead Wong would have done
something like that.

Speaker 4 (59:12):
You know what I mean. That seems like an older
thing to do.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
So in Connecticut, they're talking to Meredith's mom, Lois, who
is played by Nina Hellman, who I recognize as an
absolute legend from Wet Hot American Summer if you are,
oh yeah, if you're a wet hothead like I am.
She's the camp nurse Nancy, Like when they're going into town,
she goes, can you get me some lube?

Speaker 4 (59:33):
And they're like what, She's like lube, They're my bussy.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
It's like the wildest character that would actually funny, such
a good group costume. My sister did it in Oh Cool.
My sister did it in college, and she was the beekeeper.
She was the kid that never takes a shower and
he runs the radio station that's like unplugged. Yeah, like
we threw away her beekeeper outfit when she moved to
New York. But uh, yeah, her and her friend and

(01:00:00):
college used to do great group costumes. They did World
ten of Bombs. One year they did Wet Hot, So fun. Anyway,
her grandson is sitting there playing. He looks to be
about like eight or something and lives like maybe he
shouldn't be here, and Lois is like, oh, he's on
the spectrum and he gets very anxious if he's away

(01:00:20):
from me. But he's not listening anyway, like I'll tell
him about his mother later. And then Finn says, which
is kind of wild to act like he just like
can't hear anything. But Finn goes, We're really sorry about Meredith,
and the mom goes, well, I knew it was going
to end this way. Meredith was always running off with
bad boys. It started when she was fifteen. The last
boy she ran off with, though, was more of a man.

Speaker 4 (01:00:41):
She says.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
He was a carneye. She met him at one of
those town fairs, and you know, one day she took
Jack to the carnival, and then she went back another
day on her own, and then when the carnival closed down,
she took off with this guy.

Speaker 4 (01:00:56):
And whenever I do hear Carney, I do think of
leaon Real Housewives of Dallas. I don't know if you
ever watched that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
I never watched Dallas. When I hear Carney, I think
of the wife swap episode where it was a Carnival
family and I forgot the other family because obviously the
opposite of Carnival and it was hard for her.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Okay, back to the Mummies. All right, So we're in Connecticut.
We're talking at the nurse from Wet Hot but the Mummy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Sorry to bring it up, but it is one of
those you know how I love like a star when
you watch a movie and you're like, oh, they're about
to be a star. I'll uh like Melissa McCarthy and Bridesmaids,
and I feel like that was Rachel Weiss in that movie.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
Like, oh, I've never seen the Mummy. You've never seen
the Mummy. That's really not a movie I will ever watch. Well,
I was a kid. We went as a family, but
I went every part of the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
I just thought it was such a big deal. I
can't believe you didn't see Mummy. Like to me, that
was like an event. No, we saw the Mummy and
we loved the Mummy.

Speaker 4 (01:01:47):
I'm shocked.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
I know, I forget that The Mummy is like I
think I did a Mummy escape room at the like
in Hollywood once, like, but I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
It grows in nineteen ninety nine, it grows four hundred
and twenty two million worldwide.

Speaker 4 (01:02:02):
I was at the beginning.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
I was in college, so I was like, not going
to see that many movies. I guess except on holiday breaks.

Speaker 4 (01:02:08):
I should watch it. I guess. I was like, oh,
you should watch you with the kids. I think it's
PG throutine.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
Jared was wearing he has a T shirt of the
Original Mummy, and one time he was at TSA and
this guy goes, yo, Original Mummy come this way.

Speaker 4 (01:02:21):
So people do love the Mummy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
I really hope you like it. It's like a fun action
movie with and paleontology. Archaeology, I mean archaeology doesn't have
like paleontologists is just dinosaury archaeology like sexy archaeologists.

Speaker 4 (01:02:37):
That's hot. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
So she's telling them all about the Carnie, about how
Meredith ran off with the carnival when it closed down.
It's like a classic story from like the nineteen tens,
it feels like, and she's like, I called the police,
but oh, man, I don't remember the exact date I
last saw her. And it's like you would think you
would have that date like emblazoned in your mind, but
guess who does Jack. He pipes up and goes July seventh,

(01:02:58):
twenty sixteen, and he's like, They're like, what are you
talking about, And he's like, that's the day mommy left.
I saw her get into his truck. And they're like, wow,
do you remember anything about the truck. He's like gray
New Jersey six, I l I nine zero. Fuck this
kid got the plates and everything. And Lois is like, Jack,
you never told me that, and he goes, Mommy said

(01:03:19):
not to. She said she'd be back soon and not
to make grandma worried. So this is even like so
sad too, like because this guy like whatever, we'll get
in we get into it later.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
But I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
I'm like sad that this poor fucking kid is like
had all this information. Anyway, they roll up to the
house that this that car is registered to and they
spot the truck with the plates right outside. The lights
are on in the house and it's just Rollin's and Velasco, Like,
I don't know I'm like, I don't know, uh, and

(01:03:50):
the lights are on. A woman comes down the stairs
to take out the trash and she's like, who are
you and they're like, we're looking for Trace Lambert and
she goes, he's not home.

Speaker 4 (01:03:58):
And then you hear, MA, who you talking too?

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
And this guy comes out, weary AirPods and lighting a cigarette.
Take you to him, headphones out, and then Rollins is like, hey, buddy,
we're wondering if you could come into the city and
talk with us. And it's like, I've seen you guys
roll in with SWAT team for like someone that maybe.

Speaker 4 (01:04:15):
Took one person.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
This guy might have fourteen bodies and a full kill
cave in the Bronx and you're like, hey, you want
to come downtown And.

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
They sent two people.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
So just when you kind of think he's about to run,
just what you think he's about to run, there are
one police car rolls up, So you're not going anywhere, buddy,
and he's like and the mom's like, I'm coming with you,
and he goes, MA, I can handle this. Like they
have kind of a funny dynamic that it's going to
become more apparent later.

Speaker 4 (01:04:41):
So back at the squad room.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
We're going through this guy's record vandalism, disorderly conduct, public urination,
and they're like, he's very organized, he's methodical. He hasn't
left a trace of his own DNA. He works at
a carnival up and down the Eastern seaboard for eight
months out of the year, and then he lives with
Ma the other four months of the year in New Jersey.
So all the victims have disappeared in late fall, early winter,

(01:05:05):
so that would actually work with his timeline, his Carney timeline.
So now he's in cement room bars and Ma is
in woodroom blinds and Benson sends velasko go in and
give her coffee and play the goods son like, because
they can already tell something's weird with these two. So
now we're in with Trace Lambert and he is played

(01:05:25):
by Blake DeLong, and he's not offering much. They ask
do you recognize any of these girls? He goes, I
meet a lot of people. I'm on the road a lot.
And then he was They're like, were you in the
city Sunday night? He goes, I don't think so, and
Rollins is like, well think again. We've got your car
crossing the GWB on cams, like, don't just say you
were in the city. And then we've got your truck

(01:05:46):
park near the warehouse where this girl's body was found.
I think they're showing her him a picture of Tanya
and then he gets this card immediately yeah really and
he's like, oh, so he goes, somebody really did a
numb on those poor girls, and Rollins goes, he mummified them,
bone saws, space heaters like the whole bit, and Finn's like,

(01:06:08):
if we run your credit card, are we going to
find that stuff? And he goes, I don't know, heaters
from home like you might. My mom is sixty five.
She gets cold in the winter. And then he kind
of like smiles, like this guy is smug, like he
thinks he's He's like, I'm the captain now. And now
Velasco is in with the mom, pumping her for info,
and she's like, he's always been like this. He came

(01:06:29):
out white as a sheet, flat and quiet, like a
dead fish. Like talking to me about the day her
son was born. She said, yeah, he was in the
city on Sunday. He said he was headed into the
city to meet a girl. And she said I.

Speaker 4 (01:06:42):
Knew it was a lie. And they're like, how did
you know that?

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
And she goes, you take a look at him, like,
I know, they make him look like kind of freaky,
but it's not like he's like super grow you know,
like but she's trashing her son.

Speaker 4 (01:06:55):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Benson walks in and Belasco goes, oh, Ma was just
telling me that Trace isn't good with women, and she goes, well,
what I said was he's a loser, and uh, yikes,
tell me about your son, she said. She goes, I
don't know if you'd be interested, but since you're asking,
like she seems like somebody who wants to, Like she

(01:07:17):
never gets to talk to anyone except for her son,
who probably tells her to shut the fuck up. So
just anybody like expressing interest. She's like, oh, you want
to talk about my son? I have time, yea.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
And I am looking at photos of him for him
his life and I'm not scared, you know, like he
is such a good actor.

Speaker 4 (01:07:31):
Yeah yeah, and he is.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
He is.

Speaker 4 (01:07:35):
He's freaky. Freaks me out, he I mean, that's why
I texted you. I like saw that and I was like,
we gotta get this freak.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
He definitely also gives me William Lewis, Like, he gives
me William Lewis, Like his face is a little freaky,
like a younger brother of William Lewis.

Speaker 4 (01:07:47):
Like that's what I got. You're right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
When all the ghosts in the final few episodes of
the series come to haunt Benson.

Speaker 4 (01:07:53):
Yes, those really gonna be like together.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Yeah, when she dreams of all her success.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
Yeah, so mom is spilling it with Velasco back with Trace.
He goes, I don't know these girls and they're not
my type. I like them classier. And then Benson walks
in and you know, he's like, she's like, hit the road,
Velasco and Rowlands when you take a little break, she go.
They go, well, we've been talking to your mom, and
he's like, she's a lonely old lady. And Benson goes, oh,

(01:08:21):
I know, I just got an earful about how much
you suck with the ladies. And he says, he goes,
I've had girlfriends, And so then Live brings up Meredith
and she said, she goes, yeah, your mom and Meredith
talked about you a lot and how Meredith was out
of your league, and you know, the mom thought Meredith
was just with you because she pitied you and stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
And he's like, that's not true. Meredith loved me.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
So he's like already admitting the relationship between one of
the victims. Right, like we have found Meredith's bodies, he's
admitting that he added this girlfriend. So your mom also said, also,
this guy hasn't lawyered up. He's like so meticulous, but
he's like so cocky, like I don't need a lawyer
and I'm just going to get out of this. So
he's like uh So she goes, well, yeah, your mom

(01:09:06):
said that you weren't smart enough or ambitious enough to
commit this crime, and that Carnie Work was like your limit.
And Benson's playing this freak and I love to see it,
Like I like to watch her do this little game
with these guys.

Speaker 4 (01:09:18):
We've seen her do it before him here she is
doing it again.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
Benson starts painting a beautiful portrait of this perp. Intelligent, methodical,
They found victims no one would look for. They found
a location and kept it hidden for ten years. So
the guy goes, so you think this guy is smart
and she goes, oh, yeah, this guy is special. When
they find him, they're going to make documentaries about him,

(01:09:42):
and you know, we're in the height of Netflix at
the point of this episode.

Speaker 4 (01:09:45):
I wonder if.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
Netflix's a thing, though, Like, I do want a documentary
about the effect of documentaries and the influx of like
crime or like people wanting fame, Like I am curious.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
Yeah, because back in the day, so many serial killers
were like headlines, headlines newspapers, right, and now it's like
that's not really a thing anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:10:02):
If you want to really have your name out there, there's.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
Got to be a hot dock about you, right, and
then if you're lucky, a Ryan Murphy show or something
like that. You know, So this guy, you know, they're
going to make docs about him, and Live goes, I
mean ten years and the owner of the building didn't
even know he was there, and he scoffs this guy.
He goes, shows how much you know the owner, that

(01:10:27):
Chinese guy. I heard he's dead. And then she goes,
So you follow the case, the case that just broke yesterday,
the case that.

Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
Just broke you always, I see you've been reading up
on it. Maybe I underestimated you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
So now liv goes, Live starts doing the whole like Okay,
well you're smart, and I need a smart guy to
help me figure this out. So let me run my
theories by you. That's like what she's you know, playing,
And she goes, I figure this guy is smart, but
he's also lucky, and and Trace goes, no, no, no,
he's just smart, really smart. And then she goes, well,

(01:11:01):
you think he just found an abandoned building where the
owner just happens.

Speaker 4 (01:11:04):
To be dead.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
And the guy goes, he didn't happen to be dead,
and they go She goes, oh, you knew him.

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
He goes, it's what I heard.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
He's barely This guy's barely trying to cover up his story.
He's so has such a boner to confess his crimes.

Speaker 4 (01:11:18):
And he goes, no, it's what I heard.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
The killer pretended to be a buyer, sat down with
the owner to seal the deal over tee yum cha.

Speaker 4 (01:11:26):
He called it. He never saw it coming.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
The tea was poisoned, made it look like a heart attack,
and Liv goes, wow, that is a good plan, and
he goes, yeah, it was. It was my plan. And
Benson's like, ha, okay, sure it was, little buddy. I mean,
we never like Benson gave a full like uh okay, lolbud,
like it was so sarcastic, and then Teres goes, no,
it was I swear I killed him.

Speaker 4 (01:11:49):
I killed all of them.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
They were my girls, they were mine, and you had
no right to go in there and disturbed ten years
of my work. Then he picks up the fucking photos
and he starts giving detail tales for each one of them.
It's so sick, like, he goes, oh, Tanya, she screamed
for her sister, Beauty couldn't stop shaking, d she pissed herself,
like talking about how terrified these women were as he

(01:12:12):
was killing them and torturing them. And he goes, oh,
and Meredith, she just kept saying no, no, no no,
And then he goes, I kept her alive for days,
and he says, I killed all of them, all of them.
You tell my mother, that tell her what I did.
And it's like fucking creep city, like, well.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
You know what I learned, Like you know how you're
most likely a woman's most likely to be killed by
an intimate partner and then of acquaintance kind of murders.
The second is son's killing mothers Oh, mattreside Wow, interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
Yeah, just that just oh wait, that just happened in
my hometown. In my hometown, this kid, and I'm from
a small town. This kid just murdered his mom. And
I've been it's been you know, of course everyone knows.
I'm famously still on Facebook and they know where I'm from,

(01:13:11):
so they've been posts, they've been giving me news articles
about it. Uh yeah, yeah, I think he like beat
her to death and then they found him in the woods,
being like my mom, my mom, Like, I don't know.
I got to like look up more about this case, but.

Speaker 4 (01:13:23):
It's yeah, nu Canaan Manecus.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
And I got to ask my best friend because she
teaches there and be like, did you know this kid?

Speaker 4 (01:13:29):
He just graduated a couple years ago. But so fucked.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
But yes, what I think is so weird is how
many times we've seen in this show and in just
knowing true crime as we do, how many guys become
serial killers to impress their moms. And sometimes I wonder
with something like this, with the mummification and the evisceration,
it's like, you know, how so many moms are like, oh,

(01:13:55):
I could have had a doctor for a son. I
wonder if they do these like super medical protect medical
procedures to be like, well, look what I learned how
to do, Like I learned how to do all this
stuff with the body. And you know, even though because
like realistically you're not going to go to medical school,
but like I wonder, you know, because it's like and
then I think part of it is also I got

(01:14:15):
away with it for so long. Look how smart I am?
You know, ugh to impress your mom? Jesus fucked up, Oscar.
Please don't please don't, honey, if you're listening to this,
I think you're the best.

Speaker 4 (01:14:27):
I don't think you need to kill anyone. Okay. Live.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Then at the last scene, she hangs up with Careesy.
TRACE's lawyer cut a deal. He'll plead guilty to a
dozen homicides to avoid federal charges.

Speaker 4 (01:14:39):
By the way, I count fifteen.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
I count fifteen so far, because he had fourteen victims
that they found, plus he admitted to killing this Chinese man.

Speaker 4 (01:14:46):
So that's fifteen victims. But that's just New York.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
Finn points out the FBI is checking the whole East
coast to see if he did any other murders while
he was on the road with the carnival and he
could still get the death penalty for those.

Speaker 4 (01:15:00):
To me, I feel like.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
This guy needs, like he doesn't have enough time on
the road with the carnival, like to set up a
full kill area and pumifacation.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
He didn't mummify the Chinese guy, did he? No, well,
they didn't find him, no exactly. Yeah, so I think
he does other crimes too, Like this is passion crimes,
but he'll kill for survival, He'll.

Speaker 4 (01:15:18):
Kill for necessity. Yeah that's true too, that's true. Or
if he gets an urge.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
Yeah, I mean imagine you have to just like check
all the dates of carnivals on the whole East Coast
for ten years and match them up to like open
homicides that could be this psycho. Oh thank god for
the computer programs I guess that do that. But they
walk over to Emmy Truman, who explains that he was
able to id two more of the victims, and Benson's like, well,

(01:15:46):
what about the rest?

Speaker 4 (01:15:46):
Will you be able to id them?

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
And he goes, I don't know, but after what they've
been through, I'm not going to abandon them now. So
they're really trying to get us to love this guy.
Truman and I'm I like him here. He's doing a
lot of great work. And then Beauty's grandmother. We've heard
her referenced earlier with the mirror that Beauty had in
her purse, and Finn goes to greet her, and it's
just like sad because I think that final sighting of

(01:16:08):
the grandma is like they tried. They try to make
it seem like no one cares about these girls, but
there are people that do, Like there was Daria, there's
this grandma, Like there are people that just maybe couldn't
help them get off the streets, but do care about them,
and they don't deserve to just be like wiped out
because they're not. They're not cases that aren't no humans involved,
as that fucking bastard Precinct was calling them. And then

(01:16:31):
the episode just ends with live staring at pictures of
the victims, and that's dick wolf Baby, it was.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
I can't wait for the episode where like Noah eventually
finds the mummy photos and then you know, I just
explain what she does. Oh my god, that episode is coming.
You know he's gonna find something. I guess you already
found stuff about Johnny ded but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
I can't wait for them to do the episode where
Noah gets in trouble and Benson has to do her
Stabler shit where she decides to cover it up or
to help or whatever, because they're going to get to that,
right yeah, yeah, yeah, Noah's going to do something that's
like maybe not that bad, or a friend peer pressured
him or something.

Speaker 4 (01:17:17):
So Samuel Little not related to Chicken Little.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
Okay, So this is the choken strokecase, which you know,
not a great nickname, I guess, but says a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:17:29):
I hate it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
So sam Little, in twenty eighteen, he did confess to
killing ninety three women what between nineteen seventy and two
thousand and five, spanning sixteen states. Oh shit, And so
he sat down with Texas ranger James Holland from June
twenty eighteen to write before his death in twenty twenty

(01:17:51):
and he did this very Hannibal lecter to get a
prison transfer. So he was like, I'll tell you everything,
all the victims, and he had a photographic memory, was
able to describe everything, how he met these women, killed them,
what they looked like. He wasn't accurate in terms of
time frame or distance. So he was off by decades
and miles, like that was not part of his brain.

(01:18:15):
But he also sketched his victims and like chilling accuracy.
There's like a lot of side by sides, and they
gave him colored pencils or their oils, but they're like
they're haunting because it's really sad.

Speaker 4 (01:18:31):
The drawings are like good, and.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
I'm honestly surprising I haven't heard of this guy when
he has so many victims.

Speaker 4 (01:18:41):
Well, I wonder if it's because he's black. Oh, I
would think. I don't think that the media.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
The media loves to promote like people of color being criminals,
do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
And because he killed text workers, that don't matter, Like
I don't know, I'm not really sure why we don't
know much about it.

Speaker 4 (01:18:57):
It's like Ted Bundy was killing co Ed's, you know, like, yeah,
I get that. Yeah, I wonder you're right. Black people
get caught more. I don't know. I also think that
they don't.

Speaker 1 (01:19:10):
I think that that they like to paint the picture
of white serial killers as like geniuses who outsmart them
and they could not say, oh, this man outsmarted us
for fucking thirty five years and we never or whatever,
how many of her years it was twenty five.

Speaker 4 (01:19:25):
Yeah, maybe you're right. It's scary, and I don't think
they should have let him have colored pencils, but I
guess that could have helped us, like identify some of
the women that haven't been I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, the women had a lot of personality.
He saw them as vibrant beings and like, but yet
he disposed of them like they were truly nothing. He
was also like he was speaking to a journalist about
his art, and he was trying not to be offensive,
and so in answering the questions, he goes, oh, I

(01:19:55):
would draw the girls, I mean women, I mean ladies,
searching for a term that was like least offensive. But
this journalist, it's for the cut. It's a long piece.
It's Jillian Lauren, and it'll be a source throughout. And
she ended up having meetings with him in the prison,
as the Texas Ranger was so towards that. So they

(01:20:17):
were like within months apart, and she went every weekend.
She would drive and talk to him in prison, and
they exchange letters and all this stuff. But she's like
the real answer is victims. They were victims. But like
it's so interesting that he's like, oh, ladies, but it's
like you truly strangle them. Okay, So classic backstory and
it's told by this cut journalist Julian Lauren and teen

(01:20:42):
mother abandoned him as an infant on the side of
the dirt road, and then he dropped out of high
school in Ohio. He was a competitive boxer and that
informs his strength and size.

Speaker 4 (01:20:52):
He was like a big fighter dude, So that sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
And then he began living a nomadic lifestyle and he
had his first arrest in nineteen fifty six. But this
dude never had an address, never registered a car, no
credit cards, nothing. He spent three years in prison for
robbing a furniture store in Ohio and then, according to
the FBI, shoplifted, fraud, drug charges, solicitation, breaking, and entering.

(01:21:16):
He got arrested for like decades Ohio, Maryland, Florida, Main Connecticut, Oregon, Colorado, Pennsylvania,
New Jersey, Arizona, Georgia, Illinois, Missouri, California, on and on on.
Assaulted a police officer, grand theft, unlawful fight to avoid prosecution,
resisting arrest, battery, false imprisonment, assault with great bodily injury, robbery, rape, sodomy.

(01:21:39):
For all of this combined total time ten years in jail.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
My god, it's like these nineteen fifty sixty seventies prison
sentences are so wild.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
So September nineteen seventy six, Little was arrested in Sunset Hills,
Missouri for the rape, assault, and great bodily injury and
robbery of Pamela K.

Speaker 4 (01:21:57):
Smith.

Speaker 2 (01:21:58):
She showed up hysteriracle on a stranger's doorstep after escaping
his car, running nearly naked through the night, her hands
bound behind.

Speaker 4 (01:22:06):
Her with cloth and electrical cord.

Speaker 2 (01:22:09):
He had strangled her, bit her, beaten her, sodomized her.
He was convicted of the lesser charge of assault with
attempt to ravish attempt to ravish and served three months.
So three years for robbing a furniture store, three months
for what that woman went.

Speaker 4 (01:22:25):
Three years for a couch, three months for a woman.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
It's fucking crazy cases like this across the whole country.
Years he's he was arrested for horrific crimes and then
serving no time because the states.

Speaker 1 (01:22:39):
Aren't talking to each other, so they all kind of
thinks it's new.

Speaker 4 (01:22:42):
It's his first offense and.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
We go into ViCAP and it's like, that's one of
the issues is that it's not mandatory, it's elective, so
officers have to decide or not if they want to
put it in ViCAP, and then that alls us to
be invented and then used and that's what eventually helps
the case.

Speaker 4 (01:22:58):
But like, yeah, the.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
Or not forced to do it, Oh, we're gonna yeah.
And there was tons of women throughout this, all these
crimes that was like, hey, it's them, and the cops
been like, get the.

Speaker 4 (01:23:10):
Fuck out of here, like it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
So yeah, full acquittals, even with eyewitness testimony, there was
Hair's evidence, they just kept letting him go. And it's
it's truly wild. I don't know, I don't understand it.
And with racism throughout all this, I don't, I don't know,
but I think it's how little we value women, sex
workers and people that do drugs, Like I don't know

(01:23:33):
how else. Yeah, So even when convicted, he served so
little little time. He pled guilty to two counts of
assault with great bodily injury and one false imprisonment and
got four years, only served one and a half, got
paroled two and then he had two crimes tied together.
October nineteen eighty four he beat and strangled Tanya Jackson,
charged with rape and assault with great bodily injury, and

(01:23:54):
September nineteen eighty four an attack on Lorie Barrows, who
played dead to survive on the side of the road.
So he finally got caught because in twenty twelve he
was arrested in a Kentucky homeless shelter and extradited to
California on a narcotics charge. When they got him, LAPD
matched his DNA to three unsolved murders from the late
nineteen eighties, and all three women were killed the same way, beaten, strangled,

(01:24:18):
bodies dumped in an alley, dumpster, or garage. He strangled
all of his victims, though investigators say it was more
suffocation than strangulation. Sorry to our listeners, I didn't research
the difference.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
I'm not on the moon, so suffocation is more like
a pillow over your face or something suffocating you, whereas
strangulation is like hand around your neck or something.

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
I want the listeners to Kara did act it out.
She did cover her face and strangle herself.

Speaker 4 (01:24:43):
I did put a.

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
Hand pillow over my own mind it thank you for
the visual cues, and then two of them he drowned.

Speaker 4 (01:24:51):
Oh god.

Speaker 2 (01:24:52):
He never shot or stabbed, he says, which is like
a brag or maybe it's his proof of humanity or whatever.
But he's like very adamant, like I never shot her.
But it's also a lie because he confessed to shooting
a nineteen year old woman, Evelyn Weston, in the head
in September nineteen seventy eight, So I don't, Oh.

Speaker 4 (01:25:06):
God, you care not even your brags aren't even truthful.
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:25:10):
And then his boxing passed, like I said, came into
play because he would knock out his victims and then
strangle them, and so there was no clear signs of homicide.
But it's like the Long Island Killer where it's like,
what do you mean she's naked in a swamp, Like
what do you mean she's on the side of a
dirt road and.

Speaker 4 (01:25:24):
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:25:27):
One murder Denise Brothers in Odessa, Texas, he like, you know,
they're sex workers. He like dragged her into the backseat
of his car, like through her like a doll. He
was a professional fighter, huge strangled her with one hand
and masturbated with the other, And so killing was synonymous
with sex for him, and he liked to make the

(01:25:47):
encounters as long and slow as possible. He wanted them
to regain consciousness and then do it again. And he
said that, like to the reporter from that cut interview,
I own you your mind for ever. He said that
to Denise, and then she cried and he kissed the
tears from her face. And a lot of these women's

(01:26:08):
deaths were misclassified as drug overdoses or accidents or natural deaths.
Some bodies were never found or like found decades after
their death as well, he told and like identified and stuff.
He told Lauren that his first one was a big
old blonde Turn of the New Year, nineteen sixty nine
to seventy, Miami, Coconut Grove. She was a hoe and
then corrected himself prostitute. She was sitting at a restaurant booth,

(01:26:31):
red leather, real nice. She crossed them big legs and
her fish at stockings and touched her neck. It was
my sign from God. So this is sick, but I'm
just like telling you, Like she met him in the
two thousands, This was in ninth January first, nineteen seventy
like such details.

Speaker 4 (01:26:46):
Yeah, and he remembers like everything about it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
Yeah, he remembered eighty eight and he just started going, Wow,
astonishing details.

Speaker 4 (01:26:55):
And it took like over months and months.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
She would go and he thought he would never get
caught due to the fact that he moved around a
lot and he knew what he was doing. He prayed
on vulnerable women and yeah, I did to drug sex trade.
So the FBI is still looking for information to try
to even find all the victims and families, and they've
been matching his stories and using ViCAP to find bodies.

(01:27:17):
He was convicted and sentenced to three consecutive life sentences,
but asserts he's innocent. So that's annoying. He tried to
appeal he lost. The official FBI report thinks VICAPS so
much that Kevin Fitzsimmons is the VISCAPS Supervisory Crime Analysis
and he said to ABC News, the biggest lesson in
this case is the power of information sharing. A Jane

(01:27:37):
Doe who turned up dead in an alley in New
Orleans may look like an isolated event, but when entered
into the ViCAP database and examined with other mysterious deaths
or missing persons, patterns emerge. That is the value of ViCAP.
And I guess we know that. I don't know why
I had to do a direct quote. Okay, so entering,
But like I said, it's voluntary and a pattern can't
be found if police don't take it upon themselves commit

(01:28:00):
the case to ICAP.

Speaker 1 (01:28:01):
Why is it not just you're already filling out all
this other paperwork.

Speaker 4 (01:28:04):
She just entered into ICAP.

Speaker 2 (01:28:06):
It's like not doing that is led by ego, right,
Like you're not doing it because you either don't care,
but it's also like I want to solve the case,
or like there is some like there's a there's a
reason not sharing information, or the FBI police not working together.
Like all of that is very like agro to me
and so misogyny. So Mitzi Roberts was a detective with

(01:28:27):
the LAPD homicide and she talked to Jillian Lauren and
she was someone that was there and helped catch this guy.
She suspected him of many more killings across the country,
and she figured that other police departments would want to
start connecting it to her own, like to their unsolved murders.

Speaker 4 (01:28:42):
Never happened.

Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
She was so frustrated, so she like, you know, he
prayed on what she called the less dead and people
who live in the margins of society, and so it's
like not listening to her so forever she was like, you, guys,
we have to investigate we have.

Speaker 4 (01:28:55):
It, and no one was interested in working with her.

Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
And it's like I feel sometimes when you talk about
like gender stuff, men think they've given so much or
done so much, and it's like, well, how much better
and faster would it have been if you just listened
to women, Like I just heard, yeah story, this woman
invented something the Navy like everyone laughed at her and
now it's like the basis of Wi FI and all
the men and the Navy stole her idea and she
died penniless and you know Instagram feedti that. Yeah, and

(01:29:21):
it's just like why don't you ever work with women?

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
And like this show over and over again, like we
literally are about to do another episode where lev is
talking to like another bureau or like another division of
the NYPD, being like we're all wearing the same shield,
like let's work together. And these guys are time and
time again even and stable or two will be like,
it's my case, I get the glory, Like they want
the glory of the salt instead of like the justice

(01:29:47):
for the victim, which is what I would say majority
of probably female law enforcement are more looking for. But
I'm sure there's a lot of also asshole ladies that
work in law enforcement. But at least in our world
of Benson, she wants the justice for the victim, not.

Speaker 4 (01:30:04):
A medal and true leaders. There's something else.

Speaker 2 (01:30:06):
Remember when someone took the credit and she's like, do
you want it?

Speaker 4 (01:30:09):
And there was like, that's not about that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it was in the episode
that's something, Yes, that's yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:30:18):
So Sergeant Darren Versiga is quoted in the cut it
wasn't really possible to commit a crime against the black prostitute.

Speaker 4 (01:30:24):
It just wasn't a crime. Oh my, So Roberts began
to put it together.

Speaker 2 (01:30:28):
Eighteen years after the Odessa icap information about Denise Brothers.
Roberts found an outstanding two thousand and seven narcotics warrant
and the DA said they would extradite him if she
found him.

Speaker 4 (01:30:40):
So Roberts got a lead.

Speaker 2 (01:30:42):
It was a prepaid Walmart cart in which little social
security payments were being deposited and it was last used
in Kentucky. US Marshall's Fugitive Task Force jumped in, they
found his ass arrested him on a minor drug charge
various view and then he was in California, cocky as fuck,
refusing to talk. He's like, I'll be free again, because
why not. He's been doing this for decades. But they

(01:31:02):
could hold him since there was a DNA hit on
the bra and fingernail kit of a forty one year
old Carol Alford who has found strangled in her residential
South Central Alleyway in July nineteen eighty seven, and that
was the tipping point. So the morning of April twelve,
she had a case to case DNA match connected to
the murders of Audrey Nelson from August nineteen eighty nine

(01:31:23):
and Guadalupe Abadaca a month later. And it was Samuel Little,
whose DNA had been taken in the mid nineteen eighties
when he pled guilty to a Sultan San Diego. And
then the thing that she realized during her time with
this case was that was that he hadn't been hiding.
He'd been committing crime after crime in plane sight he
was not even hiding. He's like we like so January

(01:31:45):
twenty thirteen, eighty A. Beth Silverman filed three charges of
murder against him. September fourth, twenty fourteen, after weeks of
testimony from criminologists, expert witnesses, pathologists, police officers, and living victims,
and like they called an inspiring closing argument by Silverman,
a jury convicted him of three counts of first degree

(01:32:05):
murder and three life sentences. So this is just like
something that I find interesting, but it has nothing to
do with the case. But when she went to go
visit him, the journalists, you could only bring plastic bags
full of quarters, like you can't bring anything else in there.
And then she would buy him funians and like honeybuns,
and that's how you get them to talk. So just

(01:32:26):
something I thought of. But the case of Denis Brothers,
he finally admitted to it and that's what got him
to Texas to finish the rest of his time there.
So they extradited him from California to Texas for this crime.
And yeah, the similarities between the authorities, the you know,
the good guys and then the bad guy killers is
both the victor like they all think the victims are

(01:32:48):
disposable and barely people. And that's what sucks because it's
like it's it's just yeah, the killers and the people
solving the crimes do not find.

Speaker 4 (01:32:55):
These people worthy, so it sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:32:59):
But he saw himself as an angel of mercy, divinely
commissioned to euthanize. But then he said he believed he
was the devil, and uh, you are the devil, and
no one ever checked you, he said, I don't know,
there's a quote he liked killing them. We don't have
to talk about it, but if you want to look
up more information on the victims, the FBI has video

(01:33:21):
confessions next to the women's faces and drawings, and there's
a lot of them. That's why I wanted a name
as many as I could. Within Yeah, reading, Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:33:32):
Did this guy little like did he like?

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
Well, it goes to show you that they don't think
these people are because like Texas could have killed him,
Like why did anybody no death penalty for this guy?

Speaker 4 (01:33:45):
Damn? Like it's you know, people just loves to kill.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
They kill people that were just at a murder like
all the time, you know, like that they just were
like drove the getaway car or whatever. I'm just like,
they're probably just like, oh, well he was just killing
sex workers or whatever. Fucking fucked. But I can't believe
that's so prolific. And I've never heard that name before.

Speaker 2 (01:34:08):
All Right, so the next case, it's Russian, it's Moscow,
but I don't know how would even say his name
Moscow and Natally and.

Speaker 4 (01:34:16):
I actually, I actually do somebody with this name Anatoly. Yeah, Anatally,
it just doesn't roll off the tongue. I would say.

Speaker 2 (01:34:23):
The Moskvin case. So this dude, he dug up twenty
nine female bodies, children, so I don't know what children,
young girls, brought them to his apartment, where he dressed
them in women's clothes and put them on display.

Speaker 4 (01:34:37):
He lived with his.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
Parents, oh my god, in the city of Nijnievod. But like,
none of this is easy to say, but like, I mean,
that sounded pretty good.

Speaker 4 (01:34:47):
The parents, no question.

Speaker 2 (01:34:49):
They were like like, he brought dead bodies home and
decorated them and there was no questions.

Speaker 4 (01:34:53):
Elvira, yeah that is his mother's name, said that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:00):
She only saw them as dolls and didn't realize there
were human remains inside. But also when your grown son
lives with you and is making like dolls? Is that
like giant ones?

Speaker 4 (01:35:09):
I don't know. Is that not a red flag not
to be like heteronormative?

Speaker 1 (01:35:12):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:35:14):
But it's also like, what about the smell? Does the
mummy take away the smell? We have been talking about this,
but this dude Moskvin. He was a historian, He specialized
in the history of his town. A linguistic expert, he
spoke thirteen languages. Former military intelligence translator. He was really
well known in academic circles, and he studied Celtic culture,

(01:35:35):
which is like funny to me. And he had books
and academic works, and he was considered the leading expert
in cemeteries in the city.

Speaker 4 (01:35:44):
Ding Ding Ding. So he claimed that from two okay,
he's like a psycho.

Speaker 2 (01:35:48):
So from two thousand and five to two thousand and
seven he expected seven hundred and fifty two cemeteries, oftentimes
traveling twenty miles a day on foot, drinking from puddles,
and spending nights in haystack or farms. And CBS News
said that he even once slept in a coffin.

Speaker 4 (01:36:07):
Oh my god, drinking from a puddle. Brain is broken.

Speaker 2 (01:36:11):
Yeah, but he loved cemeteries and death. Even since childhood.
He loved running in graveyards. He would study gravestones on
cover life stories of the names he found. And it
started at twelve because he was at a funeral procession
and someone made him kiss the face of an eleven
year old dead girl.

Speaker 4 (01:36:26):
Oh god.

Speaker 2 (01:36:27):
The bodies were mummified faces wrapped in cloth, wearing the
bright dresses, had scar stockings, knee length boots, lipstick, makeup.
There was a mix of bodies and skeletons. One was
dressed like a Teddy bear some Yeah, it's true.

Speaker 1 (01:36:41):
So I could see how if you can't see the
flesh of them that he was like telling his mom, Oh,
these are artifacts, Like I'm working on these for work,
Like I don't know. I'm kind of trying to give
Elvira a little bit of a benefit of the doubt
here that she didn't know these were dug up bodies, like,
and she was like what, Like, but her son works
in cemetery work and in archiving, and in all that, we.

Speaker 4 (01:37:00):
Had music boxes wedged in their chests.

Speaker 1 (01:37:03):
Ahafending him, I'm defending Elvira.

Speaker 4 (01:37:09):
He had a ton of plastic. Oh you'll hate her.
By the end he had a.

Speaker 2 (01:37:12):
Ton of plastic dolls that had human remains inside of them.
Jesus and if that's all not sick enough, he marked
the birthday of each of his dead victims in his
bedroom and this is the Daily Mail. It called it
a chilling ritual, but it is the Daily Mail. They
were seated on shelves, sofas stacked, but there was also books,

(01:37:32):
papers and according to the BBC, it said remains belonged
mainly to girls or young women, and they had been
dressed up in clothes taken from corpses.

Speaker 4 (01:37:43):
She's just grave robbing. All around.

Speaker 2 (01:37:46):
They found photographs, nameplates taken from the headstones, and instructions
for making dolls, maps for the cemeteries.

Speaker 4 (01:37:52):
So like he was caught.

Speaker 2 (01:37:55):
Shoes found in the flat matched footprints found in the cemeteries.

Speaker 4 (01:37:59):
BBC I said flat. It was the BBC.

Speaker 2 (01:38:01):
Some Russian sources reported that Muslim graves were singled out.

Speaker 4 (01:38:05):
In the robberies.

Speaker 2 (01:38:06):
There was conflict in the story of how he was
discovered and arrested, so one paper claimed he was detained
at a cemetery carrying a bag of bones. Another said
that investigators found the bodies when they visited him in
his home to ask about the desecration of graves and
that it was a long running investigation. So they went
to the cemetery expert, you know. But they all grew
suspicious of him during the meeting, so they went in

(01:38:31):
for help.

Speaker 4 (01:38:31):
But it was in Alexi.

Speaker 2 (01:38:33):
Yesen is the editor of the local paper, and he
told ap and classic man fashion, I saw no signs
of that while working with him. Honey, what about when
he scooped over a puddle, like scooping a puddle in
his mouth?

Speaker 4 (01:38:46):
How about that? Oh my god?

Speaker 2 (01:38:51):
Some of those remains he was living with for up
to ten years. He was arrested in March twenty twelve.
One report said detained twenty eleven. So around there he
confessed to forty four counts of abusing graves of girls
ages three to twelve. That's why I don't understand why
they keep saying young women and female like it's a
child Like I don't get Yeah, so Daily Mail.

Speaker 1 (01:39:10):
Oh so why it's like if he's just a freak
that's interested in like death and the human body, why
is it only girls?

Speaker 4 (01:39:17):
Yeah? But oh god, so this is from Daily Mail
as well. It is what it is. So October is fifteenth,
twenty twenty five, they're.

Speaker 1 (01:39:26):
Still covering him as of ten days ago, like as
of two weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (01:39:30):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:39:31):
So pro Kremlin shot media outlet reports that psychiatric doctors
are recommending that he is safe to return home, and
I wrote safe for who? So so I also found
a US Sun piece about it, which I think is
also trash in May twenty twenty five that they agreed

(01:39:53):
to keep him in.

Speaker 4 (01:39:54):
So I'm wondering what happened.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
But they're submitting documents to try to get the courts
to discharge.

Speaker 1 (01:40:00):
But he's not in that long, like he's been in
for fourteen thirteen years.

Speaker 4 (01:40:06):
He was doing this for ten.

Speaker 1 (01:40:08):
You've got to serve like a little bit more time
before it's like, I'm actually all better now.

Speaker 4 (01:40:12):
I'd actually don't want to dig up body.

Speaker 2 (01:40:14):
But we've written the parole boards before, but it's like,
could we write to Russia? Like I don't know what
to do, but these docs are like, yeah, they we
think he can live with friends and family and not
in the care but I think he's probably a creep
and just don't want to be around him. I honestly
think that he's so disturbed. They're like, please get him
away from us. But the secure hospital and Nijenine Novogoroad

(01:40:37):
refused to comment. But yeah, so he was sent to
the psychiatric clinic, not a prison, because he was ruled
to have schizophrenia and could not stand trial. That's according
to the Sun. But looking at the crime scene photo,
oh my god. The Daily Mail just put the crime
scene photos in it and I think it will permanently
alter the way I live. But yeah, just saw the dolls,
just saw them all, saw o their faces. You can't

(01:41:00):
just do that, Like, shouldn't it be blurred and it
say like, hey, yeah, sensitive image? Yeah, because I don't
think I would have clicked on it.

Speaker 4 (01:41:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:41:09):
So the parents of the dead children really don't want
him out. They want him incarcerated for life, which I
agree with. I think it's unfair to subject the public
to having to interact with this man. I understand he
did not do the murdering, but we cannot trust him
out in the world. He's refused to apologize to the
families of his victims, so no, he is not sorry.

(01:41:29):
You cannot let him out. There's courts that are stopping him.
But a doctor keeps wanting to release him, and I
don't know why. They're all so fucking hard to, you know,
have a herd gdding amount. He told the parents, ready,
you abandoned your girls in the cold, and I brought
them home and warmed them up. And then he also says, besides,

(01:41:49):
they buried their daughters and this is where I believe
their rights over them finished.

Speaker 4 (01:41:53):
So no, I would not apologize. And then his so
Alvirah said, the court is biased against my son.

Speaker 2 (01:42:03):
Yeah, we are. Can we not be biased against anybody?
We don't like him. We don't like him.

Speaker 1 (01:42:09):
The court is acting like my son did something really
creepy and illegal, and it's not fair. I'm sorry. I
don't know why I was standing up for a vibr before.
I was just kind of trying to feel like, how
could anybody not think that is so deeply fucked up,
especially when your son is like a professor and an
author and.

Speaker 4 (01:42:23):
All this stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:42:25):
Well, he also still believes that either black magic or
science will be able to bring the girls back to
life again, and he wants to be an expert in
making mummies.

Speaker 4 (01:42:34):
Yeah, so exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:42:35):
You let him out and he's going to start trying
to do the process of mummified.

Speaker 2 (01:42:39):
I don't know why they're trying to let him out.
I think they don't want to be around him. I
think they're sick of being around him.

Speaker 4 (01:42:44):
I do.

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
That's just my theory. Okay, so it gets worse. So
this is a guy Robert picked him. The pig farm
Killer Canada. Disheveled Loser is how the New York Times
described him.

Speaker 1 (01:42:57):
Ha ha, wait, disheveled loser. Fucking rocks. That's so funny.
Should we make a shirt that sent dishoveled Loser?

Speaker 2 (01:43:08):
I guess someone reposted today that on our last episode,
I wrote like, I've always been paranoid and suspicious or something,
and I don't remember that I said that, but yeah,
you said that.

Speaker 4 (01:43:21):
But I have. I definitely have, but also tricked constantly.

Speaker 2 (01:43:26):
So this dishoveled Loser owned a CD nightclub called Piggy's Palace,
and he also owned a pig farm. He would take
female victims to his pig farm in a crime spree
near Vancouver and the late nineteen hundreds and early two thousands,
CNN reported from like nineteen seventy eight to two thousand
and one was when he was arrested again.

Speaker 1 (01:43:49):
Decades long criminals. So shit, yeah, twenty three years of
just crimes.

Speaker 4 (01:43:54):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:43:55):
He had a seventeen acre farm. It's a pict in
farm in Port Quakatalam. I don't know it's but it's
the largest crime investigation scene in Canada's history.

Speaker 1 (01:44:06):
Detectives. Guy has experts, nightclub called Piggies and a pig farm.
I'm just kind of registering. Yeah, yeah, fucking crazy. I
was wondering the lack of reaction. Actually, yeah, like, I'm
glad it came to you. Sorry, I okay, got it.

Speaker 4 (01:44:20):
He's sick. So they were, but I okay.

Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
So they were women of course from cd areas, sex workers,
users of drugs that were in the margins of society,
and Vancouver Police of course, have been criticized for not
taking these cases seriously earlier because of the types of
victims they were, and a lot of these victims were indigenous.

Speaker 4 (01:44:39):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:44:40):
So he would throw drug and alcohol fueled parties. That's
how we would lure people in. And in two years alone,
twenty five women met missing in the area and the
cops couldn't put together. There was a cereal twenty five
women in two years and not one cop was like,
are they connected? I just I can't picked in Also
to sixth grade education, by the way, so this guy

(01:45:02):
who has a sixth grade education.

Speaker 4 (01:45:03):
Is just the cops can't figure it out. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
Evaded the cops for decades, and of course he had
other brushes with the law. He was charged with attempted
murder in ninety seven after a woman, Wendy lynn Ice Tetter,
was found bloody and disheveled on a road near his farm.
He said he was defending himself from a robbery attempt,
and the charges were dropped. A year later, his former employee,

(01:45:29):
Bill Hawkescox called a hotline set up by one of
the missing sex workers Lovers and reported that his foster
sister saw bloodied women's clothing in the farm when she
worked there as a domestic servant, which I think is
outdated language or I don't know, yeah, maybe she is.

Speaker 4 (01:45:46):
I don't know what this is.

Speaker 2 (01:45:47):
Maybe it was a sexual I can't noah know, she
was just working at the farm and she saw something,
but when the cops interviewed her, she denied it. But
so now another example of how listening to women helps everybody.
So Detective Laurie Schenner wanted to pursue mister pickt in.
I don't want to call him mister fuck that guy
picked in dishovel. Detective Louri wanted to stuff old loser,

(01:46:13):
but people familiar with the case said her superiors did
not think he was particularly likely culprit among the two
hundred suspected they had listed. And this is according to
The New York Times. A woman who wrote a book
about her sister and the other women that went missing,
said that Laurie wanted to build a case around him,
but the department did not support her. So finally, in

(01:46:33):
nineteen ninety eight, Kim Rossmo, an investigator specializing and profiling criminals,
urged the department to investigate the possibility that all these
missing women were killed by one man. Superiors refused, so
he says, Canada's largest serial killer investigation was on their
doorstep and they fumbled the ball that hard and that

(01:46:55):
he said that to the Times, and what they did
instead was failed to renew his contract, and they just
hated it. They're like, yeah, he's just doing this because
he has sour grapes, because we let him go. But
they let him go because he wanted to do this
and they didn't want to. So the remains or DNA
of thirty three women were found on the farm, but
there were two hundred thousand DNA samples that were taken

(01:47:17):
from the investigative team there. They were on that farm
for eighteen months and it cost sixty one million dollars
to do the search. And the farm also had really
crazy signs when you entered it said no visitors, agents, peddlers,
or salespeople. Equal admittance by appointment, admittance right, admittance by
appointment only, no exceptions. This property is protected by a

(01:47:42):
pitbull with aids. What yeah, okay, so skull and we do.

Speaker 4 (01:47:51):
Keep learning new things. This is crazy, we do. So.

Speaker 2 (01:47:56):
Skulls and teeth of women were found in the freezer,
andrew buckets with skulls, hands, partial feet of a couple women.

Speaker 4 (01:48:03):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:48:04):
Bodies with bullet wounds, personal belongings, clothing, fingernails, tiny body
pieces in a fridge trailer, garbage, hands filled with body parts, purses.
He rapped to an undercover cop once that he killed
a total of forty nine women. They planted someone in
his cell and he gained his trust and god it wow,

(01:48:26):
he told this dude. He strangled his victims and then
fed their remains to his pigs.

Speaker 1 (01:48:32):
This is a storyline in Hannibal, the TV show Hannibal.

Speaker 2 (01:48:37):
There's a character what nineteen eighty four is? Aren't they
like pigs that do weird things?

Speaker 4 (01:48:42):
Should I read it? I'll read it.

Speaker 1 (01:48:44):
But nineteen eighty four is like an allegory or something
like this in Hannibal, Like there is a guy who
like kills people and feeds them to his pigs, because
pigs will eat like anything in like the body. There's
like they eat the bones too. I guess like there's
nothing remaining. Okay, we'll I have more deeps unfortunately, okay, great.

Speaker 2 (01:49:01):
He would hang some victims like he would hang them,
skin the and skin them on a meat hook. Oh
my god, the ish the more issues arose because health
officials had to issue a tainted meat warning to all
the neighbors who were buying pork from his farm.

Speaker 4 (01:49:15):
Oh my god, yeah, I don't want anyone to get sick.

Speaker 2 (01:49:19):
Not one body had been found intact, so a lot
of suffering, of course, Oh my god. And the wood
shepperd would wood chip into the pig's mouths.

Speaker 4 (01:49:29):
So he destroyed a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:49:31):
He also sold soil to businesses around British Columbia. So
all that land and soil was bought and then condos
developed on all these places. It's like there's evidence of
bodies all over British Columbia. So he was arrested February
two thousand and two on almost accidents. They weren't even

(01:49:51):
looking for these women. The Royal Canadian Mountain Police, Mounted
Police whatever the Canadian police arrived to form to investigate
reports that he had an unlicensed shotgun, and then then.

Speaker 4 (01:50:05):
We're gonna look into We're gonna look into that.

Speaker 2 (01:50:08):
And then when they went to search for this unlicensed shotgun,
they found an asthma and hayler and ID cards belonging
to missing women.

Speaker 4 (01:50:16):
He was then charged with the murder of twenty six women.

Speaker 2 (01:50:18):
Split between two trials, he was convicted of six counts
of second degree murder second degree listen to that sentenced
to life in prison in O seven. The victims of
those six were Mona Wilson, Serena abbots Way, Marnie Frey,
Brenda Wolfe, Andrea Josberry, Georgina Pappened.

Speaker 1 (01:50:38):
Do any of these guys like say, why they do
I mean, like does he say why like the last
guy was like delusional, thought that he was like actually
not the last guy that guy was had suffered from schizophrenia,
thought that he was the first guy that you talked about,
was saying like he thought he was like doing these
women a favor?

Speaker 4 (01:50:56):
What is this pig torture man thinking? I don't know,
I mean, I don't know. There's like there doesn't have
to be like a motive, but it's just.

Speaker 2 (01:51:04):
So his whole chance was, yeah, the remains were on
my farm, but I had nothing to do with it.

Speaker 4 (01:51:09):
Oh, so they read the verdict.

Speaker 2 (01:51:12):
He had his head bowed and then a jury of
seven men and five women took ten days to reach
the verdict.

Speaker 4 (01:51:17):
Ten days.

Speaker 2 (01:51:18):
So listen, so you will get life in prison. But
because it was second degree murder, he does get a chance.
He's eligible for parole in ten years. But I don't
understand why there was even a chance of parole. But Canada,
you get it, and the most you can keep someone
until parole is twenty five. So you can't get a
life sentence, but you become eligible. But I also don't
understand why it was the second degree lesser charge That

(01:51:40):
means not planned, but it's clearly first degree murder.

Speaker 1 (01:51:44):
You that brings somebody up and skin them accidentally and then.

Speaker 2 (01:51:47):
Get rid of all the remains, like you plan all that,
Like I don't like getting rid of bodies means you've planned, yeah,
so or I guess not whatever. I just wonder because
the first degree murder in Canada would be immediate life sentence,
no parole, So that's annoying.

Speaker 4 (01:52:04):
I think it's clear it's six people.

Speaker 2 (01:52:06):
Like CBS News reported that he did get the minimum
twenty five years before being eligible for parole, and I
get it just means eligible, not that they'll let him out,
but I just think it's psycho.

Speaker 1 (01:52:18):
If so he's eligible in two years, right, twenty twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (01:52:21):
That was also before the other twenty charges even went
to court, so he's not going to get out. Canada
does not have the death penalty, but none of that
actually matters. He was killed in prisonam okay, So I'm
against the death penalty, but if it's it's a yard murder,
it's a yard murder. May nineteenth, twenty twenty four, so

(01:52:42):
recent he was murdered in prison. He was seventy four
years old, and then just the thing like Time magazine
and you sick in me writing there was like an
article and it was he killed twenty six drug addicted prostitutes.

Speaker 4 (01:52:56):
No, he killed twenty six women. He killed twenty six women.

Speaker 1 (01:53:00):
Yeah, and he confessed to forty nine, right he said
forty nine. I mean like no, no, yeah to the undercovery. Yeah,
oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:53:08):
But does a fucking matter like your Time magazine, Like
that's how you see them, Like this is what sucks.
It's not just like if everyone had better views of
these people, these criminals couldn't do it. It's like we,
like a society shares these views, Like for Time magazine
to call these women drug addicted prostitutes after they were
brutally murdered, tortured, hung up, skinned, fed to pigs, like

(01:53:31):
fuck you, yeah, fuck you. But but you say his job,
you know, he gets to be the pig farm killer. Yeah,
I'm glad you were fucking killed. One more crime. I
do apologize, and I do want everyone to know. There
was like eight option. There was like a lot of
crimes for this one. So I've really narrowed it down
as much as I could. But when people are mummifying, I,
you know, I can't are doing so many weird things. Yeah,

(01:53:53):
and it's like the victims and the time frames of
getting away with it, and I think it's just like
these were important for me to share.

Speaker 4 (01:54:00):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:54:01):
So the next case is Harrison Graham, unemployed handyman in
North Philadelphia. He was late twenties, early thirties vibe, I
don't really know, six feet tall, and he was known
to wear thick glasses. He lived in a Rundown apartment
for four years that was known as the Shooting Gallery.
So that's where people addicted to drugs bought news heroin.
But he lived in that neighborhood for eight years. His

(01:54:23):
place at the time was described knee deep in debris. Yeah,
some of us have that in Workshill. You're allowed to
have debris in your home and be a cool girl.

Speaker 1 (01:54:36):
There's debris and then there's what you're about to describe
with in the mouse, discarded syringes, piles of mattresses, old clothes, sheets, boards,
and boxes. I guess I only have old clothes, sheets,
and boxes, so that's pretty good. Yeah, And I think
in the boxes there's new clothes, you know, like there's stuff.
It's we're not talking about, uh, I've seen your pretty bad.

Speaker 2 (01:55:01):
It was also invested with fleas and one wall was
stained with dried blood. Okay committed crimes between eighty six
and eighty seven. He was caught when he was evicted
from his apartment because there was a strong stench. And
this is August, okay, August eighty seven, you know it's hot.
So the landlord's nephew, Gregory Smallie, was taking care of

(01:55:24):
the you know, it's a rundown fucking place, but of
the property while his uncle was in the hospital. And
he ran into Graham and he's like, hey, it smells
like shit, like you have to leave. You're being evicted.
Graham's like, fine, fine, fine, let me just get a
few things. And he was like, and please stay out
of there until you know I can grab my stuff.
So Smallie, all of a sudden, I heard banging, hammering.

Speaker 4 (01:55:43):
Said.

Speaker 2 (01:55:44):
The apartment was missing a doorknob and the door was
nailed shut from the outside. So he looked through the
doorknob hole. He saw two bodies, so he called the police.
The police Pride opened the nail door. They found six
bodies in his bedroom, a leg foot bones on the roof,
a torso in the basement of a neighboring house. Some

(01:56:04):
of the bodies were no more than skeletons, and then
there was a green Duffel bag filled with bones.

Speaker 4 (01:56:09):
And it's just like, this is so serious.

Speaker 2 (01:56:12):
But every time I see bones, I think of the
way you say bones talking about someone else's joke at
like bones, Yeah, like on fucks it, like kills me.

Speaker 4 (01:56:23):
This is serious, Greg Johnson.

Speaker 2 (01:56:26):
All the bodies were so decomposed it was impossible to
determine the cause or time of death immediately.

Speaker 4 (01:56:31):
It took a while.

Speaker 2 (01:56:33):
So what's crazy is we just covered this case Gary Heidnick,
the House of Horrors, the torturing that like Silence of
the Lambs where there were six women, the you know
the tunnel down we did.

Speaker 4 (01:56:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:56:46):
He he stalked kind of like black mentally disabled women.

Speaker 4 (01:56:52):
He kidnapped them.

Speaker 1 (01:56:54):
Okay, the House of Horrors electrocuted them. Jesus, Why am
I blacking this out?

Speaker 4 (01:57:00):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:57:01):
I feel bad. It was what I talk about a lot,
because the cops really failed pretty hugely with him as well.
Oh for the episode Manhunt, Yeah, okay, yeah, so that
was March eighty seven and that was in North Philadelphia.

Speaker 2 (01:57:18):
So these were two miles apart, and his was house
of Horrors, and this was called the House of Death.
But they were finding body parts for days in different places.
Friday the fourteenth, they found Ahead and a torso buried
in a shallow grave in the basement. August fifteenth, police
found a human skull in a house near a trash
strone North Philly apartment building.

Speaker 4 (01:57:38):
I don't speak like that.

Speaker 2 (01:57:39):
On August fifteenth, police found a human skull in a
house near some trash near a North Philly apartment building.
Also in the basement three doors away from Graham's apartment.
That's like where they found stuff. One of the bodies
was also sandwiched between two mattresses in his home. I
guess you guys didn't need any of that, Okay. Taken

(01:58:00):
into custody on a busy intersection about ten blocks south
of his apartment, His mother persuaded him to surrender after
a week long manhunt. The mom called him around one
pm in the day to be like, hey, wait for
me on this corner.

Speaker 4 (01:58:12):
I'll meet you.

Speaker 2 (01:58:13):
For those in Philly, it was cecil by Moore Avenue
and Ninth Street. The murder chargers started to come about
after several hours of questioning, he confessed to having strangled
them all accidentally. He said he lured them in with
drug use and they would do drugs and have sex
and then he would strangle them. He denies rape, but
authorities do believe it was rape. He waived a jury

(01:58:36):
trial because his attorney and mother said that the graphic
evidence would strongly affect the jury. His attorney, Joel Moldofsky,
said he wants that he's mentally disabled and he did
not know right from wrong. They were all accidental deaths,
all because of drugs and alcohol. Okay, the eightya Roger
King was going for the death penalty. He did not

(01:58:56):
give a fuck. He's like, that's a serial killer. His
acts were wilful and tensional and premeditated, and that's to
the New York Times. But he did have a few characters. Okay,
so you know, a real Sibyl situation. He carried around
a cookie monster, like a stuffed cookie monster, and that
was his two year old character Junior. He was also Frank,

(01:59:20):
and that's the drug addicts murderer. And then Marty was
the handyman who cooperated with the police. But they had
really powerful witnesses so two women survived him, but barely,
you know, according to psychology today, which I don't know
is a credible source or not. One said that during
sex he would place his hands around her throat and

(01:59:40):
squeeze and she didn't like it, and he told her
that he'd kill one of his that he had killed
one of his former girlfriends, so that's something. And then
the second witness confirmed that he confessed to killing and
also threatened her with a machete, which does sound drug fueled.
The witnesses confirmed he talked to his cookie monster toy
all the time he was and the deaths of seven

(02:00:01):
women and convicted of seven counts each of first degree
murder and abuse of a corpse in April eighty eight.
It took a long time to identify the victims, but
they are Cynthia Brooks, Valerie Jamison, Mary Jeter Mathis, Barbara Mahoney,
Robin Deshazzar, Sandra Garvin, and Patricia Franklin. His death sentence

(02:00:22):
was vacated in two thousand and three due to his
low IQ, and the judge was like, we'll just execute
him after his life sentences.

Speaker 4 (02:00:31):
So that's kind of like a semantics weird game.

Speaker 2 (02:00:33):
Because he has so many life sentences and they're running consecutively,
so he would you know, so the death penalty without
the death penalty kind of a thing.

Speaker 4 (02:00:43):
Life in prison operol.

Speaker 2 (02:00:45):
He asked for his cookie monster stuffed animal as he
was being taken away.

Speaker 4 (02:00:49):
From court by the bailiff. They said no, and he's
still in jail at the State Correctional Institution in Cole Township.
Jeez geez.

Speaker 2 (02:01:01):
Yeah, yeah, And I do wonder if the people sitting
next to me on the Amtrak looked on my computer
screen and thought of anything or not. Yeah, as I
was looking at the mummified photos from Russia.

Speaker 1 (02:01:15):
The sad part too, is that like this episode could
have been based I mean, like aside from the mummy case,
like so many cases, like so many serial killers have
gone after just like sex workers and people on the fringes, and.

Speaker 2 (02:01:27):
You know, yeah, I think I focused on the ones
that like long time frames and also like desecration of bodies,
because there was some decapitators and stuff, but it didn't. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:01:38):
Yeah, but anyway, thank you for doing all that work.
Are next, We're moving on. We've got a guest. We've
got a guest, baby, I think you can guess who
it is.

Speaker 4 (02:01:55):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:01:56):
Our guest today is an actor you may recognize from
films like When See Us and Tesla. He was also
recently in two episodes of Long Order Organized Crime if
you mess with that franchise, but you know him best
as the terrifying Mumma fire Trace Lambert. Please enjoy our
wonderful chat with Blake DeLong. So this is so funny,

(02:02:17):
Like we've done this podcast for so long, We've talked
to so many guys who play absolute creeps and then
they get on the zoom and I'm just like, you
just seem like a guy I would see in Brooklyn.
But I was terrified of you ten minutes ago. You know,
uh this part, Wow, you've already like I can't remember
what the order is, but you've already done some other

(02:02:37):
dick wolf stuff.

Speaker 4 (02:02:39):
How did this?

Speaker 1 (02:02:40):
Yeah, you did, oh see most recently, which I want
to ask about. But how did this SVU audition come
to you? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (02:02:47):
It was an offer, Yes, it was a shocking offer
that I was very.

Speaker 4 (02:02:54):
Happy to get.

Speaker 5 (02:02:55):
And I had auditions, you know, I'm sure everybody says
I had audition and for sv bazillion times before I
got it, and it came at a very interesting moment
in my own personal timeline. So like I'll try to
make this not take forever to explain, but in like

(02:03:17):
the years leading up to the pandemic, my wife and
I had been trying to get pregnant and failing and
feeling like failures. And I was also dealing with this
terrible back injury that I had gotten partly from doing
a play for a long time, and I was managing

(02:03:38):
the pain of that by going to physical therapy sometimes
up to three times a week for years, for like
eight years, acupuncture and all this shit. And during twenty twenty,
when they closed everything, I couldn't go get my my therapy.
And by the end of that year, I was in

(02:03:58):
so much pains, had discs, you know, slipping out on
my nerves. I couldn't even sit on my couch. I mean,
it was like a fucking not of life. And of
course during twenty twenty that's all we did was sit
on our fucking couch. Is so yeah, particularly bad, and
my wife was like, Okay, you gotta.

Speaker 4 (02:04:12):
Get this surgery.

Speaker 5 (02:04:13):
So fast forward to the end of that summer twenty one,
I had I had made the plans to do the surgery,
and a week before the surgery, my wife is like,
I don't know where my period is, dude, Okay, well
we've we've we've seen this episode before, but let's go

(02:04:35):
check in.

Speaker 4 (02:04:36):
So one week to the day, we go to the
doctor and.

Speaker 5 (02:04:41):
He's like, you know, doing the ultrasound and there's like
a he's like scanning across this this you know, void,
and then there's like a blip, and then he keeps
scanning and then there's another blip and he's like, Okay,
so see you right here, Uh check that out. That's
a heartbeat, you know, very cool, very exciting. And we

(02:05:01):
were like, what was the first blip? And he was like, yeah,
we should probably scrub back to that and see what
that was all about. And so he like shuttles back
over and he's like, that is definitely another heartbeat.

Speaker 4 (02:05:14):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 5 (02:05:16):
And I just remember, like we were all wearing masks
and tears are just falling down my face and I
look at my wife and even just like you know,
I can only see her eyes. It's just this look
of like a mask of a frozen mask of horror
and confusion, and just like what and we walked out

(02:05:42):
of there. We were walking down the street. We went
to get some ice cream, and she was We've been
trying for four years to have kids.

Speaker 4 (02:05:48):
I mean, it was a journey. This was a big
fucking shock.

Speaker 1 (02:05:51):
You know.

Speaker 5 (02:05:51):
This was not IVF or anything. We couldn't afford it,
you know, and neither of our insurances covered it.

Speaker 4 (02:05:55):
Right.

Speaker 5 (02:05:56):
So we're walking down the street, we go get ice
cream and she's like, I know that at some point
this is going to be so wonderful, but right now,
I feel like I'm at a restaurant and I've ordered
something very expensive and it's been brought to me and it's.

Speaker 4 (02:06:12):
The wrong thing.

Speaker 5 (02:06:13):
I just I want to call the waiter back over
and be like, no, dude, Like this is not the sushi,
This is not the sushimi bladder that I fucking ordered.
So I had now, I had nine months. The surgery
was a week later. I had spinal fusion a week later.

Speaker 4 (02:06:30):
Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (02:06:30):
And they told me, you'll in eight months your back
will be good enough to sort of live life, but
it's going to be eight months of recovery. So I
have this surgery. Two weeks after the surgery, I'm at
home you know, heavily medicated with a pregnant wife, totally
you know, drastically unemployed, and I start getting tapes that

(02:06:55):
I have to make, and I'm just like, God, this
is such a bitch making tapes right now. I'm in
so much pain, but like, I need to work, oh
as always, so make some tapes. One of the tapes
was for I think it was for SVU. I it
must have been the episode before and I don't you
guys are experts on it so you might remember. But

(02:07:15):
there was some part where I had to fucking cry
my eyes out. I just had to cry my eyes out.
I was a victim.

Speaker 4 (02:07:23):
Oh okay, And so I had made.

Speaker 5 (02:07:25):
This tape with my wife, cried my little heart out,
sent it in, didn't get it whatever.

Speaker 4 (02:07:32):
And then yeah, two weeks later, out of nowhere, out.

Speaker 5 (02:07:36):
Of the blue, my manager's like, hey, you just got
this offer to do this serial killer part in sview
and I was like, oh, fuck about time. And it
actually was the beginning of a whole bunch of work
that I ended up doing in that time while my
wife was pregnant, leading up to my Broadway debut, which
was Death of a Salesman, which I did in twenty

(02:07:59):
twenty two while my hit while my twin infants were
five months old. Friends, Oh my gosh, Burly.

Speaker 2 (02:08:08):
Yeah, that guy thought he was so cool because he
ran the marathon and did two wickeeds. But I guess
you did Death of a Salesman with twins week sausted.

Speaker 5 (02:08:16):
I did that eight times a week with ten infants
and whens.

Speaker 4 (02:08:21):
Did you guys have boys? Girls? One one of each?

Speaker 1 (02:08:23):
What?

Speaker 4 (02:08:23):
One of each? Whoa go? The dream? That was dream?

Speaker 1 (02:08:29):
That was my dream was to have twins and be done,
but instead I had to do it two separate times.

Speaker 5 (02:08:33):
I'm sorry. Yeah, that's cool too. Yeah, we don't know
any different. We only know this version of it. It's
it's amazing. It's often incredibly hard.

Speaker 4 (02:08:43):
Yeah, are they like three or four or what? They're three?
They're three and a half, and they're rad.

Speaker 5 (02:08:48):
They go to they go to school now, which is
why I'm like in my office, which I like, never
came here for three years, hung out with them mostly
unless I was working.

Speaker 2 (02:08:59):
Now, when you get this offer, you're obviously excited, perfect
time you want to and it's an offer from a
cool show.

Speaker 4 (02:09:06):
And then once you read the script, where does your Yeah, brain. Dude,
I was so stoked. Are you kidding?

Speaker 5 (02:09:12):
I was fucking stoked because you know, I like you guys, said,
I play a lot of creeps, some bad guys, and
I love it. I love playing really twisted characters. It's
just fun to try to figure it out and like
solve the puzzle of it and make it work. But
the one I saw that I had this giant one

(02:09:33):
on one with our queen, Yeah, I was just like,
fucking a, I've been chasing this little dragon for so long. Yeah,
finally get it and I get to not It's not
just going to be like a like a little, you know,
wimpy experience.

Speaker 4 (02:09:49):
It's going to be the real Yeah. It was real deal, juicy.

Speaker 1 (02:09:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:09:53):
And I told her, and I told Bethany Rooney, our director,
and everybody I could talk to, like, this was my dream,
you know, this was my SVU dream.

Speaker 4 (02:10:01):
Yeah. If I was ever going to do this show,
this is what I wanted to do. Yeah. One of
the worst.

Speaker 2 (02:10:08):
Villains, I would say, one of the hardest episodes to
watch because they show the mummification.

Speaker 4 (02:10:14):
Yeah, and you know I wasn't there. I was gonna.
One of my questions is did you miss did you
meet the Mummies?

Speaker 2 (02:10:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:10:20):
I just laughed when I saw that on the sheet.
Did you meet the Mummies?

Speaker 5 (02:10:26):
I did, well, I that night that they were in
the warehouse. I was also we were in Red Hook
doing that stuff, and I was on because I had
to do like there was just this beat with like
my hands and my voice sort of apprehending one.

Speaker 4 (02:10:46):
Of the girls. Oh yes, yeah, the part where you
let's let's be real kid.

Speaker 1 (02:10:51):
Yeah, the very opening of this of this episode exactly.

Speaker 5 (02:10:55):
So I was there waiting and I was like, fuck this,
and I just like wanted out of my trailer and
wandered onto a hot set and was so sure someone
was gonna yell at me, but I was like, I
have to see.

Speaker 4 (02:11:06):
I got to see the work, the handywork. Yeah, exactly,
So I did. I did it.

Speaker 2 (02:11:11):
But you're right, the moment with Marishka, you got so
many cool moments. You know, she's tricky, you got Yeah,
it's it's an amazing else that you get to.

Speaker 4 (02:11:20):
Do with her, which is great, Like she's fricking Yeah.
It is a very old school kind of SVU. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (02:11:27):
You know, where like you prey upon the guy's own
like Hubris and like his own like inability to let
his work go uncredited because he's so genius.

Speaker 4 (02:11:37):
You know, how was working with your mom?

Speaker 1 (02:11:41):
I loved that on screen mom, not your real mom
the I uh, I'm looking Oh, Laura Gardner?

Speaker 4 (02:11:49):
Is that her name? Laura Gardner?

Speaker 1 (02:11:50):
You guys were a funny mother son duo, which we've
also seen on SVU before a lot of moms who
humiliate their sons into becoming serial killers.

Speaker 5 (02:11:59):
There's real theme there. Yeah, Laura was awesome. She was
I remember she was in from l A and she
was a hoot. She was really funny and she's still
to this day. If I'm in something, she'll send me
a d M and say it always says exactly the
same thing. It just says my son.

Speaker 1 (02:12:21):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (02:12:22):
I love that. That's so funny. How was doing Law
and Order Organized Crime?

Speaker 1 (02:12:28):
You've done a bunch of Dick Wolf stuff, right, like FBI,
FBI most.

Speaker 4 (02:12:33):
Bless Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:12:34):
Yeah, everyone that works for you. Yeah, they have really
kept me busy for for years now.

Speaker 2 (02:12:42):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:12:42):
And I watch our Organized Crime, but I'm like a
season behind, so I haven't seen your season your episode?

Speaker 4 (02:12:48):
But are you bad? Are you good? What are you in?

Speaker 1 (02:12:50):
That bad bad.

Speaker 4 (02:12:51):
I'm bad. Yeah, I'm almost always bad. Have you ever
done good?

Speaker 5 (02:12:55):
I mean I've played some just sort of like and
more ambiguous skies.

Speaker 4 (02:13:01):
I can see you in a rom com. I feel
like that. I can see it. You know. I thought
I would do more stuff like that. Yeah you didn't,
thank you having a look for an evil killer. I didn't.

Speaker 5 (02:13:14):
I really didn't, but apparently the industry did. But what's
really funny is that I've done a lot of commercials,
and God bless the commercial gods for for you know,
keeping me in their orbit. I've been really lucky with
that over the years. And when I do commercials I play,
I mean, they're always funny. It's always sort of like
improv comedy stuff. I did like one class at UCB

(02:13:40):
and had a blast doing that, But I didn't have
a big comedy background. I just started booking these things
where I would I would be improving with.

Speaker 4 (02:13:47):
People and just that shit's so fun.

Speaker 5 (02:13:50):
And so I thought years ago, when I started doing
this and I started having success doing that, I thought
I might do comedy.

Speaker 4 (02:13:56):
You know, I don't ever do fucking comedy.

Speaker 2 (02:13:58):
I wish you who were you in that movie Late Night?

Speaker 4 (02:14:03):
Just one of the writers, one of the guy writers
in the room. Yeah, in the room.

Speaker 5 (02:14:07):
I had one sort of brief but great scene with
Emma Thompson and she fired me. She was the nicest person.
I'll tell you, dude, the Brits when you're working with them,
they are out of control nice. I mean the first
movie I ever was on, the first like feature I

(02:14:29):
ever did.

Speaker 4 (02:14:30):
I had one day on we need to talk about Kevin.

Speaker 1 (02:14:32):
Oh my god, It's on my list of things to
ask you about because psychotically it is one of the
first movies I ever saw with my husband.

Speaker 4 (02:14:40):
It was like one of our first dates.

Speaker 1 (02:14:41):
Whoa And we always tell people were like, isn't that insane?
Like we didn't really know what it was about. We
were like, oh, we like indie movies. Let's go see
this cool movie.

Speaker 5 (02:14:49):
And then we were like, oh, yeah, what a cozy
date movie.

Speaker 4 (02:14:53):
We walked out like totally traumatized. Traumatized.

Speaker 5 (02:14:57):
I mean, I've seen it exactly one time when it
came out.

Speaker 4 (02:15:01):
Never watch it again. It's not a rewatch type of movie.
You know, it's it's heavy.

Speaker 5 (02:15:07):
But I I remember I got this job and I
was so excited, you know, and I'm going to do
a scene with fucking Tilda Swinton. Yeah, And I had
to go up to this little town in Connecticut. It
was me and one other guy. We will play these
Jehovah's witnesses. And I walked up to a makeup trailer

(02:15:29):
and I opened the door and inside was only one
human and it was till This Winton.

Speaker 4 (02:15:35):
And she turned and looked at me, and immediately she
was just like, oh, hello, you'll blake. I know you.

Speaker 6 (02:15:42):
I've seen your audition tape. You're marvelous. We're so lucky
to have an actual of your caliber to play this part.
Thank you so much for being here. Like, oh my god,
out of control? How did you know who I was?
I can't believe it? And all day she was like that.

Speaker 5 (02:15:56):
I mean, we were doing these takes and she would
pop out of you know the door, you know, the house,
and poke her head out and say, what would.

Speaker 4 (02:16:04):
You guys think you want? Try something new? Or how
do you feel? You know?

Speaker 5 (02:16:07):
It's just swing working with Lynn Ramsey, who's an absolute genius,
and Tilda Swinton can't be nicer.

Speaker 4 (02:16:15):
It was.

Speaker 5 (02:16:15):
It was such an amazing first day of work up
for you know, a young actor and it's it's set
a bar really hard.

Speaker 4 (02:16:22):
Yeah, no one does.

Speaker 5 (02:16:25):
No one gets to be an asshole, you know, like
if if, if Tilda Swinton can be this great.

Speaker 4 (02:16:31):
That's what we always say about Maria. We always say
that about her.

Speaker 1 (02:16:35):
She's done twenty seven, she's in her twenty seventh season
of television. We've interviewed hundreds of actors that have worked
with her and barely an unkind word, and everybody's obsessed
with her. And I'm like, well, yeah, no one's allowed
to be a dick. Then if she's being cool, she
has the right to be a dick. I guess she's
earned it.

Speaker 4 (02:16:52):
But she's not.

Speaker 5 (02:16:53):
Yes, you know, but she's not at all. And you
know she she really really fucking cares about the show
and about about the issues. Like for her, I really
think it's a it's a calling, you know, And in
that way when you meet people like that, for me,

(02:17:13):
it's just sort of like I'm such a just kind
of mid level, you know, random character actor type of dude,
and then I meet people like this at the top
of the industry, and sometimes they suck, But when they're
like that, I'm like, man, you deserve to have all
of this success like you deserve and you should be

(02:17:33):
this person.

Speaker 4 (02:17:34):
You know, it's just so inspiring.

Speaker 5 (02:17:35):
It really is like it's corny as it sounds corny,
but it's really inspiring well.

Speaker 2 (02:17:40):
And that we hear that she does like coverage, that
she really like she knows what it means to be
a guest str on that show and then that's the
heavy lifting or the victim or the killer or whatever.
And it seems like she's very supportive of other actors.

Speaker 5 (02:17:53):
She was so cool she you know, right away we
just started, we just started jamming and both of us
were really vibing off each other, and then we we
sort of knew we had it after the first you know,
we sort of did this master and then we turned
around in a medium on me, and then we turned

(02:18:14):
around a medium on her, and then she was she
was like, hey, come over here, and we went into
a closet. There's like a closet in the interrogation room
and she closed the door and she was literally like,
all right, we already got it, Like it's so good,
and she was like, let's go back and for the
rest of this coverage, let's do it like we're just

(02:18:37):
in the grittiest little indie movie, like we should just
fucking be as quiet as we want we can get,
we can go off script, like just just jam, just improv,
let's go. And I was like, are you serious and
she was like, yeah, let's fucking go. And you know,
we never got so far off the script, but we did.
I really feel like when I saw it, they use

(02:19:00):
so much of the of the singles on both of
us that we were doing in our last like three tapes.

Speaker 2 (02:19:07):
And it's cool to have like the actor be the
like one of the EPs where she can make those
kinds of.

Speaker 4 (02:19:14):
Close Yeah, it was. It was. It was very exciting.
It was very exciting.

Speaker 5 (02:19:18):
I think she and Bethany had worked together a lot,
and Bethany was super super cool and was loving what
we were doing and just barely said a word.

Speaker 4 (02:19:26):
Was just like, yeah, it's awesome. And Bethany is a
director because I know her acting work. Bethany, she not acts.
She I don't know, maybe she did something I credit.
He was a legendary director. She's directed a ton of
no but.

Speaker 2 (02:19:41):
She it's not her, but she looks like the Mom
and the Boss episode. That and the Nanny's Shaking episode.

Speaker 4 (02:19:47):
So she does. She does.

Speaker 1 (02:19:48):
She looks like her, but she looks like an actor
from a season three episode of She's.

Speaker 2 (02:19:52):
The one that shook Maybe to death. I'm like, I
know her, but no, it's a fully different woman.

Speaker 5 (02:19:56):
Okay, Now I listened to one episode of You Guys
podcast to sort of know what I was getting in,
and I just have to doff my cap to the
you know, extreme insanity and depth.

Speaker 4 (02:20:11):
Of trying to make it fun. It's great.

Speaker 5 (02:20:14):
And you know what else you guys do that's so cool.
It's You're the tightest two hour podcast.

Speaker 4 (02:20:20):
It is. It's three podcasts in one.

Speaker 1 (02:20:22):
It's like a recap and a true crime and an interview,
and we're really trying to keep it tight.

Speaker 4 (02:20:27):
But sometimes it's like, wow, that was short two hours.
You guys are very It's like very it's somehow really
slick nice here.

Speaker 5 (02:20:36):
Yeah, it's it's like really slick and and but also
like very.

Speaker 2 (02:20:42):
Well that probably is for you know, hats off to
Casey as well.

Speaker 4 (02:20:47):
He takes a lot of.

Speaker 1 (02:20:47):
Yeah, he takes out a lot of a garment. Bethany
Rooney has literally directed every show.

Speaker 4 (02:20:53):
I've ever watched in my life.

Speaker 1 (02:20:54):
She's a great Sisters picket fences like nine two one.

Speaker 4 (02:21:00):
I just did. I just did an episode of Elsbeth that.

Speaker 1 (02:21:05):
It's like Lisa's favorite show, and you know it's crazy.
Your episode's coming out two days after this podcast, so
everybody that's listening has to go watch Elsbeth.

Speaker 4 (02:21:13):
With Blake and listen. Hey, I don't murder anyone. I'm
not a boy.

Speaker 5 (02:21:18):
Are you someone that think did something bad? I can't
say to you, Okay, but I'm not. I'm not a racist. Okay,
I'm not misogynistic. I'm I'm like a normal I'm a
pretty normal guy.

Speaker 1 (02:21:31):
Does anybody ever tell you, Blake that you look like
Pablo Schreiber you've gotten out before, of course, because I
don't know another villain of like a I think that's
a little bit. Like why you were so scary in
this episode to me is because you look like you
could be like his little brother. Like he is one
of the scariest serial killer psycho paths that the show's

(02:21:52):
ever had. He does this sort where he terrorizes Maurushka.
I don't know if you've seen him.

Speaker 5 (02:21:56):
I wasn't aware of it until I until I did this,
and then after the fact, you know, I was informed
by the what do you call like the SVU fans, Like,
I don't know what you.

Speaker 1 (02:22:11):
Call the SVU community, the murder officionados, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:22:15):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (02:22:17):
Well, whatever they are called. They let me know that
I was so much like him. Yeah, they thought I
was him, and then they were like, oh, it's like
it's going to be his brother. Like they thought I
was going to come back and it was going to
be a whole thing. I mean, people really locked in.

Speaker 1 (02:22:35):
Wow, I thought I was so clever picking up on
the resemblance.

Speaker 2 (02:22:40):
Well, and it's the creepiness with both, you know, it's
like eerie. You're the apprehension, the like the ease cockiness
of it all.

Speaker 4 (02:22:51):
But and just the void behind the eyes no emotion.

Speaker 2 (02:22:55):
But how do you how do you get shark eyes
like the whole thing about acting's emotions?

Speaker 4 (02:23:00):
How do you like get void to have no none?
I have no idea. I don't know how it works.
I don't know how. It's a mystery, but hopefully you
guys play brothers or dead.

Speaker 2 (02:23:09):
I would love to.

Speaker 5 (02:23:10):
I have been a fan of his for a long time.
He's also like way bigger than me. He's like I
don't know how tall. He's like a tall, tall dude.
Are you on stage? He looks six four and just
like jacked. Yeah, I am not, but I'd love to
play his like you know, ne'er do well? Uh black

(02:23:30):
sheep brother.

Speaker 1 (02:23:31):
His brother that's not as good at him as a
serial killing. You know, I've always been in your shadow.
You've always done it better than me, are you.

Speaker 2 (02:23:40):
Like, do you do a lot of research or you?

Speaker 4 (02:23:43):
Uh, It depends on the thing.

Speaker 5 (02:23:48):
If it's something that I don't have any background in
and feel like I really need to, I will. And
I love doing that, like when it's appropriate, and even
sometimes when it's not appropriate, I'll kind of get carried
away with it. But as I've gotten older, I tend
to just sort of, you know, I see the script
and I'm like, either I know what this is and
know what I'm doing, or I'm like, fuck, I gotta

(02:24:09):
like really dig into this. I did some serial killer
sort of you know, poking around when I was working
on this. I remember there was a movie I did
for the year before. I did this small part in
this movie called Tesla about Nikola Tesla with Ethan Hawk,

(02:24:29):
and I played the first man to ever be executed.

Speaker 4 (02:24:34):
In the electric chair. William Kimler. Wow.

Speaker 5 (02:24:37):
And it was a little two seen a cameo in
this really cool Michael Almereta movie, which I highly recommends,
a beautiful movie, and I just I didn't. It was
before I had kids and stuff and I had time,
and I was like, fuck it. So I like made
a pilgrimage to Buffalo, which was where he was living

(02:24:57):
when he murdered his wife with an with an axe
and then was put in prison and whatever. And I
went to the house where it happened, and I went
then to the Buffalo History Museum.

Speaker 4 (02:25:11):
I think it's called the Buffalo History Museum.

Speaker 5 (02:25:14):
I walked up to the or the library, the history library,
whatever it was. I walked up to the desk and
there were these two lovely ladies there, and I said, hello,
I'm here to learn about William Kimmler.

Speaker 4 (02:25:24):
And they were like to have fucking died. They were like,
at last, someone is here to know about mister Kimmler.
They took me to a microfiche situation.

Speaker 5 (02:25:36):
Oh yeah, blunked down the transcript of this man's entire trial,
which was he was a fucking terrible alcoholic and he
didn't have a violent history, but his defense had tried
to get him off on alcoholic insanity, and so what

(02:25:57):
they did was they paraded every other drunk in Buffalo
across the witness stand to testify what a fucking crazy
drunk this guy was.

Speaker 4 (02:26:07):
And it was amazing.

Speaker 5 (02:26:08):
I sat there for like four hours just reading story
after story about this guy, like trying to drive his
horse drawn carriage and jump over a brick wall and
just smashed into it and just crazy shit like this.
It was super fun. And when I did the when
I did the the days on the movie, I told Michael,
you know, I went to William Kimmler's grave and poured

(02:26:30):
out whiskey at his grave. And it was such a
sweet thing to get to like share with Michael the
director because he had also like really, you know, knew
a lot about about Kimler and is a it's a
long story. This guy was a really interesting cap I
do love doing that stuff, but it's it's often not necessary,
and like I said, once you have kids, it's so

(02:26:53):
much harder to make that.

Speaker 2 (02:26:55):
So just go to Buffalo to just go too and
want to off for three serial killer? Yeah, yeah, Well,
Elsbeth's is Elsbeth is coming up soon? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (02:27:06):
Any other days.

Speaker 5 (02:27:07):
Everybody watched Blake on El Somber sixth Uh, you can
see me on Elsbeth with Lana Condor.

Speaker 4 (02:27:14):
Oh I didn't.

Speaker 5 (02:27:15):
I didn't know before this, but I met her. We
have a we have a cool scene together. She is
the nicest person. And you know, someone tells you you're
going to do this scene with this person and they
have ten million Instagram followers.

Speaker 4 (02:27:28):
Oh the summer? Is she summer? I turned pretty? Or
no to all the boys I've loved before.

Speaker 5 (02:27:33):
Yeah, you know, different generations.

Speaker 4 (02:27:36):
Yeah, I didn't know who she.

Speaker 2 (02:27:38):
Was episode of SVU and I really wanted to get
one of the girls.

Speaker 4 (02:27:42):
I was like, let's get this girl.

Speaker 2 (02:27:43):
And they're like, that's Lily ryan Hart and she has
thirty five million followers and.

Speaker 4 (02:27:46):
I was like, oh my god. Well, Lana is a dream.

Speaker 5 (02:27:50):
She's terrifically talented and super super sweet.

Speaker 1 (02:27:54):
So we had amazing why No Visa will be watching
and I will catch it as well. I need to
catch up on my Elsbeth And if you we'll do
one final question to wrap it up. If you were
to come back into the Dick Wolf universe, who would
you like to play hmmm, or.

Speaker 4 (02:28:11):
Come back to a SVU.

Speaker 1 (02:28:12):
I mean, like you've already been a serial killer, so
it'd be hard to make you like a fun loving
dad now, although they've done it before.

Speaker 5 (02:28:19):
No, I mean, at this point, like longevity is the
thing I'm most interesting. Yeah, you know, I'd like to
be someone who survives and doesn't go to jail, or
you know, at least not immediately. I'd I'd love. What
I really like, what I'm really interested in right now
is playing just like morally compromised people, So not so

(02:28:43):
straight down the barrel of being a psychopath, but someone
who's morally compromised, caught in a in a terrible set
of circumstances and trying to navigate that over. You know, like,
hey guys, five to seven episodes, let's just uh, let's
just put it out.

Speaker 4 (02:29:02):
Yeah, that would be the dream.

Speaker 2 (02:29:03):
Yeah, just now, I just thought, maybe like a corrupt
a corrupt, like a nice arc.

Speaker 4 (02:29:10):
Vibes your way.

Speaker 2 (02:29:12):
Well before Kevin Kane became a serious regular, he said
he wanted to do it on this podcast, and it happened.
He was on like he was like in a trailer
and another job, being like I just want to be.

Speaker 4 (02:29:24):
I think he's literally done sick.

Speaker 1 (02:29:26):
He's in the credits now, Yeah, different characters on that show.

Speaker 5 (02:29:30):
I would love so much to be a regular on
any of of the Dick Wolf shows that shoot in
New York and just live that life, you know, because
it's such a blessing to be around and make that
kind of money when you have a family, and just
the stability it would provide, like would just be I've

(02:29:51):
just never experienced that.

Speaker 1 (02:29:52):
I could sort of see you on like a procedural
as like the kind of like maybe the tech guy
that the medical and like says, we your jokes or whatever.

Speaker 4 (02:30:02):
A couple of those.

Speaker 1 (02:30:02):
I've gotten closer, you know, Like I've been watching Slow
Horses a lot lately. I don't know if you've watched
that at all, And like, you know how like I
hate him. I don't think you're hateable like him, but
somebody like him that's a little bit dorky, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (02:30:17):
Totally, I could see you doing that. I would love it.

Speaker 1 (02:30:19):
Not that you seem like a dork in real life.
I'm talking about what I see in your range.

Speaker 4 (02:30:24):
And how's your back, By the way, my back is good.
Think it's good. Okay, yeah, it's good tough surgery.

Speaker 1 (02:30:31):
Yes, I should be just an acting hype coach where
I just tell people what I think they could play.
I'm not actually helping you get better at acting. I'm
just like, here are things I think you'd.

Speaker 4 (02:30:38):
Be should be surprised that.

Speaker 2 (02:30:41):
Actually I was about to say that is what my
acting good does. That was great. I'm like, yeah, I
need positive reinforcement.

Speaker 4 (02:30:54):
Gold giving us so much time. Yeah, I got to go. Yeah,
you've got to go get your kids. It's two o'clock.

Speaker 5 (02:31:01):
I really enjoyed it and enjoy meeting you guys. Good
luck with the podcast. Thank you.

Speaker 4 (02:31:07):
Do you ever see me? If you ever see me please?
Yeah we will we do. Yeah, I mean, what a
great guy. Great.

Speaker 1 (02:31:19):
I just I can't stop meeting serial killers who are
great in religious I really can't these guys. I'm like,
you're so scary. And then it's like, let's go have
a drink. But post mortem on this episode.

Speaker 2 (02:31:30):
Oh, his twins, I mean to have a boy girl
twin after not being able to have a kid for
four years.

Speaker 4 (02:31:36):
That's nice. I'm so happy for him and his wife.

Speaker 2 (02:31:39):
Beautiful story, and I think he's a pothead, so obviously,
but no, him and Pablo need to do a job
and then he needs to be brought back as the Emmy.
And he said he's gotten close, so like we'll see,
all right, but a great performance, great understanding.

Speaker 4 (02:31:53):
I like, I liked him. It was like very exciting.

Speaker 1 (02:31:56):
Yeah, and then post mortem on the episode, I don't
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:32:00):
I still like my idea of.

Speaker 1 (02:32:01):
Like an app where sex workers can check in and
be geolocated by their friends, Like I need to invent this,
like I I'm.

Speaker 2 (02:32:09):
I feel like that could be used as evidence to
arrest people, like that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (02:32:12):
We have a government that like. But it so again,
it has to be like Signal encrypted. I haven't worked
it all yet out yet. I haven't met with my
investors yet. I'm still working on the deck. But I'm
just saying, like something we're like your friends could look
out for you, like and it's it's like by a
like the way Signal is encrypted, and like we're not,
and you know, I don't think, I don't know. There
has to just be a way for people to look

(02:32:34):
out for each other so that they because we just
do so many episodes where it's like sex workers, sex
work or sex workers, like these people that people like
that psychotic men just think, if I'm going to kill,
why not just do it?

Speaker 4 (02:32:46):
Why not just do it.

Speaker 1 (02:32:47):
To these people? And no one's gonna come check it out?

Speaker 2 (02:32:49):
And it's I think, yeah, I think like all these dudes,
and I keep saying this but in different ways, but
like the killers and the cops just really it's like
the bad guys and the good guys all have the
same disdain or or like dismissive attitude towards women as people.

Speaker 4 (02:33:10):
You know, yeah, yeah, my my.

Speaker 1 (02:33:13):
A genre of Instagram reel that I've been interested in
lately is the only fans girls that are just like
talking to guys that are like judging them or or
are like I actually I can't date you, or or
like Christian girls something that they're bad and them just
being like bye, like I'm happy, I'm making so much money,
see you later, Like I don't know, I'm like loving that.

Speaker 2 (02:33:35):
I love the guys that then get like there was
one guy, you know, the alpha dudes like within the
Tate universe, the show up fangirls, but yeah, that one,
I bet it's this guy. But a girl said something
that obviously triggered him, and he started screaming at her
and then he went and I'm not triggered, and I

(02:33:56):
would go, that's funny to yell I'm not triggered. You're
literally the most trigger Oh my god, did you see
the Jeff Die of it all?

Speaker 4 (02:34:04):
Yeah? Loser, You're a loser, Jeff Die.

Speaker 2 (02:34:07):
And if you're one of the nine hundred thousand people
that follow him on Instagram, please go on following.

Speaker 4 (02:34:12):
Stop doing that. Stop doing that. He's not funny.

Speaker 1 (02:34:15):
He's an enemy of every Yeah, terrible human. Okay, so yeah,
these rhymes are awful, Like what is the post Like?

Speaker 4 (02:34:26):
Our post mortem is depressing because it's like.

Speaker 1 (02:34:29):
I know, because it's like it can't be like watch
out for mummy guys. It's just kind of like watch
out for guys that are praying on the weakest members
or the most vulnerable members of our society, you know,
people that have the least resources because we've criminalized you know.

Speaker 4 (02:34:42):
What needs to happen.

Speaker 2 (02:34:44):
Our post mortems should be put on the end of
Joe Rogan's podcasts. That should be the new law, like
and all these podcasts like they should end with our
post mortem.

Speaker 4 (02:34:53):
So maybe at the end rape can go down. Yeah, yes,
they just throw it in there. Yeah. Oh my god.
I just I just read a thing that's like the
number one podcast again this year. I'm like, how how
like does it?

Speaker 2 (02:35:05):
It's fine, It's like fine, be the number one podcast,
but then stop acting like you're not mass media and
being like mad at some other news coming. You know,
it's like acting like you're the underdog still and people
believing are just a guy because you eat elk.

Speaker 4 (02:35:21):
It's very annoying.

Speaker 2 (02:35:22):
I just watched an interview I think it was with
Patton Oswalt, and they brought him up and he goes, yeah,
he was just a guy I did comedy with, Like
it's he shouldn't be this, and then he goes, I
knew a guy. I took a class or something. He
knew a guy that was friends with al Ron Hubbard.
And he's like, yeah, I knew him when he was
just writing books and kind of being chill, and then
all of a sudden he's like in charge of a

(02:35:42):
full blown cult.

Speaker 1 (02:35:44):
Yeah, when he was just safe a fantasy fiction writer,
and now you never know, oopsy doopsy, I'm leading a cult.

Speaker 4 (02:35:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:35:51):
I mean I had a friend turned into a white nationalist.
You really don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:35:55):
Yeah, yeah, you don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:35:58):
X F okay what they Let's move to what would
Sister Peg Do? This is a jumbo size episode. Thank
you for staying with us. Let's get to our what
would Sister Peg do? You guys know, this is our
weekly segment where we direct you towards some kind of resource,
a documentary, a book, an article, or maybe even a
charity organization where you can give to give you more

(02:36:20):
information about what we talked about in today's episode. And
obviously we just didn't have I don't have a lot
of mummification references for you, but we do want to
point you to the short documentary Dollmaker The Anatoly mosque
Vin Story, which is about one of the cases Lisa
talked about today, the guy who made the dolls. If
you're interested in learning more, it's on Apple And if

(02:36:43):
you want any more information, you can go watch that
documentary if you want to know more about this very
fucked up case, and that will be linked in our
show notes and in a story and save forever.

Speaker 4 (02:36:53):
In our WWSPD highlight on our Instagram.

Speaker 2 (02:36:56):
That's how I didn't ruin everyone's night with the dolls.

Speaker 4 (02:37:01):
Could have gone without seeing them.

Speaker 1 (02:37:03):
Then I saw them and now that's it's pretty in
the group to yeah, say.

Speaker 4 (02:37:07):
This is so audi.

Speaker 1 (02:37:08):
This isn't like an an auditory medium that if some
of you want to see the dolls, you can either
google it or go watch Dollmaker.

Speaker 2 (02:37:17):
And next week we'll be doing a Misleader season one
episode seventeen, Get at It Season one, Baby back to
the beginning.

Speaker 4 (02:37:26):
See you next week.

Speaker 2 (02:37:35):
That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (02:37:38):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Follow the podcast on Instagram
at That's Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at
Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese. As always, please see

(02:37:59):
our show notes for sources and more information.

Speaker 4 (02:38:01):
Thank you so.

Speaker 2 (02:38:02):
Much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien and our associate
producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.

Speaker 1 (02:38:08):
Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner.

Speaker 2 (02:38:11):
And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers,
Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly
Right Media.

Speaker 3 (02:38:23):
Dun Dun,

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Kara Klenk

Liza Treyger

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}They'd Already Disappeared w/ Blake DeLong