Thought Criminal

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
These are our stories.

Speaker 4 (00:11):
Done done, Hello and welcome to That's Messed Up, an
SVU podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger. We talk SVU,
true crime. We catch up sometimes we have guess we're tired.
Give us a break. We'll get the celebs back soon,
you know, let them get their houses in order or not.
I don't know why I brought up the fires, but
you know they're still probably they're settled, right, the fires
are done.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Well, They're not fully out, but they're looking good. I mean,
kno gonna want people are. People are know, there's been
a lot of great outreach and stuff, and people are
trying to.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Hear a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
It looks like a neck pillow for a plane and
it's bothering me.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
I know, you need to take care of it.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
It's like too tight, but I'm just cold out here
in my garage.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
Okay, is that better? It is better? It just was
I was like it just looked too like it was
strangling me.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah, my mother in law got me for Christmas this
blanket for travel that can go on your suitcase but
also can shove into itself and become a little pillow.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
I thought it was kind of good. It's very soft.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, I guess that everything is dirty and disgusting anyways,
but I don't like the idea of like wrapping it
on my suitcase and then putting it on my body.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
But we're also, oh, it just on the suitcase thing,
you know, like it's on the metal side.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, like on the metal on the metal Okay, yeah,
thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Nowhere wait, obviously, you know the inauguration.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
I don't want to spend much time on it.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
But I was hanging out with a friend, a fellow friend,
Jared Freed, and I think he's gonna do I hope
he does this on stage. But he went minute one,
ahile Hitler like what are you doing? Like minute one,
Everyone's like well, and it's like dum screaming from the rooftops.
I can't even believe it. And people are like, oh,

(02:23):
come on, it's just the I mean, it's wild to
be living in this, but just a full Nazi salute
that's being denied like we see a Nazi salute and
they're telling us it's not and yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
He's throwing his heart out to the crowd. It's like,
since when.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Is that know what that means? It's not what that is?
Things mean, things like that's the whole point of things.
That's like they have Nate words famously. Yeah, another thing
I'd like to rage on and then I will calmm down.
When on Etsy Luigi merch only two things like impossible,

(03:01):
shut down, every link shutdown, shutdown. Started looking at other killers.
You could get ted Bundy stuff, Uni bomber. There's a
candle that says smells like Dahmer. Smells like Dahmer candle.
You can get fucking gayyy shit, you can get anything.
They're shutting Luigi's story down. I'm not crazy. It's not
just because he's hot, Like I there there is this

(03:23):
is the case we.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Have to pay attention to. That is so crazy. No,
We'll continue following and keeping. They don't like commenting nothing.
It's like it's really wild. I played trivia last night
at a gay bar in Losilis, and one of the
teams was called what happened to the Luigi Mangioni News cycle.
That was the name of the team, so people are
trying to keep his name out there, and I also

(03:45):
wanted to put in not related to Luigi. One of
the questions at trivia was in the movie Van Helsing,
Dracula has three wives.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
They are never named.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Acy's ears perked up. He hear Dracula they are They
are not named. Dracula's three wives are not named in
other places, only in this movie. What are the names
of Dracula's three wives? So I asked Jared today, he
goes Van Helsing is so bad it's almost unwatchable. I
cannot believe that they would do a question about Dracula
that's from that movie. Anyway, the three wives, I don't

(04:18):
even know what two of them are. I forgot one
of them is Marishka van Helsting. Whatever the wives is Marishka.
So I just thought, wow, interesting to bring it to
the pod. Of course, do not bring it. Yeah, that
would be wild if you didn't bring it up. And
one more thing that a listener pointed out that I
knew you needed to know.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
Last week we talked about Baggage.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
For the episode Baggage, we talked about the reality show
or the dating show you talked about. Guess who has
been on it? Jack's and Tom Schwartz. Wow, bless this listener,
Bless this listener. I thank you. They sent me links. Well,
but I do have an update and then it's back
to Luigi. But like, remember I told you and everyone

(05:01):
about how at Soul Cycle the teacher was like, who
has a crush?

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Is it real or parasocial?

Speaker 2 (05:07):
So today I had the courage to go talk to
this teacher and I was like, you know, I've been
quoting you for weeks. I'm like, you really said something funny.
And so I told her and then we I go
read us bitch and she goes, I know it's it
was mostly for me because I love Luigi Mangioni.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
I go, girl, we're connected. Wow. So then we talked
for a while. We talked for a little bit.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Oh my god, I cut to you guys getting a
drink after soul just.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
Well no, I was telling her.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
I was like, yeah, I was going to go to
the trial and then come to swifty Saturday class. And
she goes, I know, but the trial was pushed. I'm like, yeah,
we're connected. Nice. I'm like, but if you want to
go to trial, before your classes.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
We could do that. Yeah, text me. Yeah, that's so good.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
I love that. I love that for you guys. I
want you to have a trial, buddy.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
I watched Someone messaged and said I have to watch
Escape to Dana mora At Okay, I loved it. I
watched it in a day and a half. It's the
best acting I've ever watched in my life. I didn't
know Ben Stiller had that kind of directing in him,
Like I need to watch Severance now. I was like
blown away. And then I started watching all the press videos.

(06:17):
I mean, I'm also an obsessive person, but like it
really was so impressive. It really like paul I. I
like to say Dano, but that's not how you say.
I think it's Dana. Just yeah, I just watched all
the interviews Dano. Okay, I'm with you. It makes me
feel uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
I just ye.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
So.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
But him and Benicio del Toro, like they really embody
these characters in like a wild amperature shartkit is.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
It's insane. It really is.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Patricia, we want you on the pod if you're hiving.
I was talking about it NonStop. I can't stop talking
about it, So I'm bringing it up in every conversation.
I you know, not, I'm doing spots and I'm talking
to anyone that will. I'm hanging out with me Brick.
I'm like, blah blah blah blah blah. They're like, when
did it come out? I go, oh, like last year
and I got nominated for a bunch of stuff. They

(07:08):
look it up, They're like, it's twenty eighteen, you dumb bitch.
Not talking about it. From a while, They're like, you're
talking about it like I just cat you are crazy.
And then every time they would appear, it was me
talking about it to someone else and they're.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
Like, you need to shut the fuck up. This is
from twenty eighteen. Like I can't.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Everyone's like, we need to escape from Lisa's escape to Danima.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
I don't remember. I have to look over my notes again.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
But they try to make you sympathetic to one of them,
and it seems like they didn't commit the crime. They
were with people that committed the crimes, and you kind
of feel bad for one of them, and I wonder,
but we.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Did feel bad, didn't we? Or did he do it? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (07:47):
There was one that you said was like more charismatic
and was like the show was like running the show,
so maybe.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Well yeah, but the charismatic one is an he like
he's the one that was an alcohol and had to
get ditched.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Oh, it really humanized it. But it also made prison
They shot it for seven months.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
Whoa.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
They shot it in the prisons, like in these towns
in the winter where it's cold, with prisoner like former
clons as extras, like you know, for seven months. It
was just like, was very impressive to watch.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
I liked it. Well, I'm glad. I'm glad you watched it.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
I mean for Ben Stiller, like he really contains multitudes. Yeah,
well he does. He like direct Severance. Yeah, dude, Wow,
I gotta watch Severance. I'm really behind on Severn. Oh,
you gotta watch Escape, Dan Mora, I know, I know,
I gotta watch it. I mean, but it's the classic movie.
They really I mean, looking at these guys, it's like hot.

(08:49):
It's like you know, yeah, I mean a fucking hot.
So it is like you're like, damn, this is kind
of hot. And then you see and then and then
at the end they do flash the the head not
the head shots.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
What are the jail opens the mugshots head shots, so
the mugs. They they flashed the mugshots, and I was reminded,
you know, they're not as hot because I was like,
should I be writing letters to this guy too?

Speaker 3 (09:18):
But I'm not going to.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah, oh wait, I wanted to tell you about this
article I read speaking of like discovering something that's old.
I was like, this article got served to me on
like Instagram from the cut right, and it's about these
two kids that were like in seventh or eighth grade,
and they suddenly were they were dating each other, and

(09:42):
they suddenly started getting texts harassing them, like both of them,
like be like, you know, telling the girl the guy
was cheating, telling the guy he was a piece of shit,
like whatever.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Harass, harass, harassed.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
To the point that like by the time they got
to ninth grade, they broke up because it was like
it was too much, like it was happening all the time,
and the parents were like meeting with the school and
like we got to find out who this is. They
all think it's this like other girl who's very popular
who's maybe trying to break them up.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
It's like not her.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
They check her phones, but the person's obviously doing it
from a burner.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
The way it's written is so good. It's like this
long mystery.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Anyway, if you want to read this article fast forward
whatever two minutes right now, because I'm gonna spoil it,
it's the fucking girl's mom the whole time. It's the
girl's mom. She's like trying to a real Debbie mazar
It Yames. Yeah, but like what like then she was
obsessed with getting them back together because she wanted them

(10:42):
to be together, because she wanted her daughter to be popular.
It was really really crazy. And I'm sitting there going,
They've got to make this into a movie. Someone's got
to option this article. Of course I google it. It
was made into a Lifetime movie. The Mother played by
Lisa Rinna Whoa.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
We got to watch that. I was like, what the
hell it's like.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
But it was the way that they wove the story,
like you really got the idea of how this was
like psychologically damaging the kids. Like the kids were just
like everywhere we went, they could the person knew what
we were wearing. They knew like what we were doing
in school, Like the mom.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
No one would suspect it's the mom harassing.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Her kid, right, yeah, the mom was involving her friends
to like get her sympathy for all the harassment and
was like, you guys should go check check in on her,
like she's upset or whatever. And it's just like this
wild small townshit in I think in Michigan it was happening.
It was a wild ride. Anyway, I recommend the article.

(11:41):
I'll send it to Casey. Maybe we can put it
in the show notes. And it was I just was like,
oh my god, I can't believe we Renna plays the mom.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
That's kind of perfect.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Also, I don't want to get there's so much Housewives
on right now. I don't know if we can fully
get into a recap. And Casey just gave us the ten.
But that text game they played in the Salt Lake
City finale.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yeah, they're psychotic.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
So for those who haven't heard and living under a rock,
basically someone was like someone was like, for us to
be closer together, how about we find the meanest text
we have talking about someone at this table and then
we make them read it, and then that's how we're
gonna all bury the hatchet. And then they all agreed
to do it, and then they read the meanest texts.

(12:25):
The one that bron Win read out loud was like
from Angie, it yeah, insane and she's a psychopath but
poetic and she's good with words somehow, she's like good
at a read, like I think because like she grew
up with like a tough situation.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
With her mom.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Like I think she got used to like cutting solow
if anybody like comes for her, you know, like Angie
goes low.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
But then her and Mary, you know, that was a
moment moving forward, it was nice, but it's just but
then Lisa is annoying. It's I hate it. I hate
the thing of like we're all reading mean things. Everyone's
putting up with it. I guess yours is the meanest one.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yeah, now you.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
End the fun and you scream and you need to
be treated. I really hate Lisa.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
And then she she threw Angie under the bus like
she she like everyone's like Angie caught strays because it's
like Angie didn't even do anything to Lisa.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
And then Lisa's like, I heard your husband does circle jerks.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
I mean, if you guys are not interested in real
housewives as Saltlake City after we talk about it, I
don't know what to tell you, like literally, can you
imagine sitting around with your friends and going find the
meanest text you have in your phone and we're gonna
read them out. We're going to make each other read
them about loud, like the subject of the text read
it out loud, like.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
So brutal, like savage, Like I could not believe.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
I was like, I mean the producers whoever came up
with the idea, because like you could tell, they weren't
really scrolling through their phones, like those texts were like
solid images, you know, like they were ready to be
read out loud. So that was worked on and executed
in a insane way.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
I just was like blown away.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
I can't wait for the reunion, Wait for the reunion.
Mecki Leaper, Leper, Makai Lepper. What's his name? Mechi Leaper? Yeah, cutie.
So he was just on Watch What Happens Live. I
just watched it. But I guess one of the below
deck people loves the milf but he changed it to
moms that I like to they get nicer. So they

(14:25):
played a game called like Millie or Not Milly, and
they had bedazzled gavels and it was just like they
would just show MILFs of the Bravo Universe, and they
went nuts for Luanne, but they did not gavel for
Lisa from Salt Lake, and I was like, yes, I
actually want to message him right now and be like
fuck yes, like fuck that bitch. I really don't like her.
I really hate I don't like the Lisa worship. I

(14:47):
don't like it. She sucks and.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
The Lisa worship is bad.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
The Lisa worship is to me, side by side with
the Teresa Judae worship, Like if you're worshiping these two women,
something's wrong with you. Like it's like it's crazy, like
Lisa is I don't know that. I guess they're different
because Teresa's just insanely dumb. Lisa doesn't seem dumb to me,
but she seems so defensive. It's like I have the

(15:12):
perfect I've got her.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
She's just not real in any capacity and defensive and
stuff like, I don't know, it's just not fun for me,
Like you're now you're screaming and you're running away and
you ruined everything. There was two more texts and they
didn't get to have to read anything. They're gonna make
them do it on the reunion and then Meredith runs away.
It's just like annoying.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Meredith doesn't bring enough story to be running away and
doing stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
No, she's just a pill popper. Yeah, yeah, she goes.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
I mean I never take any medication like that and listen,
let an international flight or something. I'm like, just the
way you said international flight, you are on a pill.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
But it's also.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Ali baba, ali baba, ali bababa. But also like Brittany
just saying I heard you coughing or like puking or something,
and then she's like, you implied I had an eat
disorder and it's like, no one actually implied that, but
now we think it.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah, now you.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Were throwing up from drinking or something or just from
being sick.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, I wait, I do have some SVU stuff. I
watched the newest episode Amy Landecker former Guests. She didn't
let us know she was in an upcoming new episode.
She's back on SVU and it's the pillocock Case, the
pilicock case.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
So yeah, I can't even.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Believe it because when the episode started I was like,
what the fuck is it?

Speaker 3 (16:26):
What is going on?

Speaker 2 (16:27):
And then when it all unraveled, I couldn't believe it,
but also I was blacked out drunk, I think, and
so I do have to rewatch it because today I
did wake up to go to Soul Cycle, and I
was like, how did I get I was like, what
did I watch?

Speaker 3 (16:38):
And then I did see a bag.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Of taco bell and then I felt it, and then
I was like, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (16:43):
You unraveled the mystery of what happened.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
I didn't see it yet, but I did hear from
several listeners that there's another Tommy in this episode. We
need to get to the bottom of the Tommy warship
on SVU, Like I need to know why. Is there
some kind of beloved cameraman that everybody loves and they
just want to name as many characters after him as possible?

Speaker 2 (17:04):
I yeah, there must be something, or do they just
it's so easy they don't think about it. But it
must be a running gag. It must be something on purpose,
like the something's taped it to Dick Wolf.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, it's gotta be Oh.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
I know you probably you already mentioned this, but I
hadn't paid attention to it even though I was catching
up on SVU, but seeing Kevin Kane in the credits
is fun, it's nice, it's exciting.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah, we were.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
Manifesting him becoming a guy, and I'm like a regular
and I'm happy that he did.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
I think he adds a lot. Oh.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
I got to go to a screening of a movie
that comes out in March.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
So obviously Cool Girl, Cool Girl Plans.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
But it was at the Tribeca Film Center and I'd
never been there, like where they have, you know, the
Cool Awards. But it was a movie called Bob Trevino
likes it, Barbie Ferrara, John Leguizamo, and I cried hard.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
It's one of the best movies I've seen.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
It could called Jean Trevino liked it. Oh, sorry, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
Bob Trevino likes it.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, wow, okay, that sounds cool.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
I mean it was incredible. When it comes out, I
gotta see it. Yeah, I think it's like it's an indie.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
It did the fests, but it's like I just was
so into it. It was really like heartbreaking and a
good movie and unique and interesting and I love that.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
It's great. That's great and I felt cool. Yeah, and
that how fifteen people in a room.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yeah, So I like that only fifteen people at the screening.
Damn is that she only invited? Like fit? Yeah, I
was just like, I think that's exciting cool while the
word is out.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Now the word is out. I cried so much. It
really is touching and beautiful. And I love John like Ouizamo,
like I do really love him. And he is the
titular Bob Trevino. He is Bob Trevino. Oh and French Stewart,
isn't it Okay?

Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah? Wow?

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Interesting? Okay, great, I'm exed. I'll watch it. I'll watch it.
I'm sure it's gonna be popping up when it comes
out on all my I don't know what streaming or
maybe theaters.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yes, I don't know that much, but I just, you know,
I gotta gotta let the people know what's good.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
I wish I had more things to talk about besides
the TV and film that I'm well.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Oh and my one thing we can talk about is
that today is your Netflix special comes out? Wow?

Speaker 3 (19:30):
Okay, today is the day. Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, thrilling, thrilling, Please watch it, like watch it, put
it on today if you can on like watch it
this week.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, you can either search Lisa's name or night Owl
is what it's called. So get on your Netflix, get
it watching, put it on on mute even after you've
watched it, and just let it keep playing.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
Oh my god. Yeah, it is super exciting. But also.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Because I'm getting a cake made for tonight, and but
it's inspired by it was David Tell's birthday and there's
a baker at the cellar that's incredible. But like the
baking dish, the clear dish, it made it look like
an ashtray with like cream of or like cookies and
cream and then cigarettes made out of pretzels dipped in

(20:19):
white chocolate, and so it looked like this giant ash tray.
And I was like, yes, bitch, So I'm hopefully gonna
have really cool blunt and weed desserts tonight.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Oh my gosh, that is really fun. I was like,
I want an ashtray cake like cool, I know. Oh
my god, I love that.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
I need picks please, oh, because I also like the idea,
because I hate the idea of cutting cake and passing
out cake and holding a cake, but like if you're
just picking up a cigarette and frosting, it's like pop.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
Oh you know what.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
I mean like, it's just like easier to get a
sweet treat and not like have you not have no and.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
A fork and the crumbs. You're just like dip eat.
I love that. I'm all about less fuss. You know
that's functional functional sweetness.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Love it, love it. That's a great idea. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Well, okay, so Lisa's Night Owl on Netflix. If you
live in or around DC, we are going to be
there doing That's Messed Up on the twenty third of
February at the DC Improv. You can get tickets at
That's Messed Up live dot com. If you've come before,
we do a different episode. We have different games. It's
gonna be really fun. Come check it out.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
And yeah, stay strong, stay positive, and don't grab your
phone right in the morning.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah, and we usually say this at the end. I guess,
but if you're listening now and you've never given us
a review on on Apple or whatever Spotify, go give one.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
Just let people know that you like us. It would
be helpful for us. I guess.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
We don't ask that much. Dude, I was so blocked out.
You know, I have the Sorry, I have the screen split. Sorry, guys,
behind a peek behind the curtain, but it's half zoom,
half chrome, so I could read my notes, but it's
on movie grid and I, like I said, was so drunk.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
I didn't know that I played. And I'm looking at
a finished one, going oh wow, wow, I did well, wow,
pretty good. Well let me see, let's show results. Top
thirteen percent of players in a black while you while
you're blacked. I was gonna say, good work. Yeah, not bad,
not bad at all, not the best, but thirteen top
thirteen percent.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
All right, But I hope.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
I become so successful that I get to they'll be
I get to pick a movie grid for the day.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
I want to create a movie Grid presented by Feature
Yeah special guest movie Grid curator Lisa Trigger. They've got
to get you. I mean, once you email them off,
I'm sure they'll be like, we have to let her
do this.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
So she stops.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
I wonder who they are, Like who are these people?
And are they like this woman is weird? Or like,
oh she likes what we're doing. Maybe a little bit
of both. Oh, I'm gonna get a library card and
I'm so stupid, Like I went, I got my pieces
of mail skipped onto the library, so excited brought my laptop,
and it's like, of course it's Mlkday, Like that's when

(23:11):
I decided to make a pilgrimage.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
But I'm gonna go.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
No, but I'm about to be a library girl. I'm
sick of because then I went to a bar to
do my work and you get a girl cheese and soup,
you get one apparall sprits, and then you're thirty seven
dollars in.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
I can't Yeah, I don't want that. I can't live
like that. I can't get I mean once in a while.
But yeah, but it.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
Wasn't that good. It also wasn't that good.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
It was just like but yeah, yeah, no the last
you're about to be a library girl.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
In wee how I was a library girl. I worked
there all the time.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Now when I go to a library, mostly with my children,
I'm telling them not to scream. But I love that
for you. Uh, let's get into today's episode. We are
doing a really really uh you know a thinker. I
would say, okay, today we are doing thought Criminal Season fifteen,

(24:04):
episode twenty three. This is I would say, in the
top ten like sort of moral conundrum episodes where they're
really trying to get you to think about, like what
what is the role of the law, you know, in society.
So a very interesting episode. We open on a girl

(24:25):
like talking to camera. She's like, my name is Lucky.
When we pull out, we see it's Brookes. So so
from Orange is the New Black. The actor's name is
Camiko Glenn. I looked her up and she is working
a lot. She does a ton of voiceover. She is
just like vovovio, so good for her. And she's like

(24:45):
doing an accent because we know the actress has an
American accent and she's doing a Thai accent. She goes,
I'm fourteen, I live in Thailand and I want to
play with you. So this is not a YouTube channel,
this is not an unboxing.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
This is bad.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
We immediately least see like just a funny scream that
has a bunch of pop up windows come up.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
It's like, what is that?

Speaker 4 (25:06):
Like?

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Is that how they're coming up to the NYPD just
pop up windows everywhere and they're just text messages that
are popping up. And we're now we're at the precinct
and it's Finn Tomorrow Rollins Live. They're all monitoring the
responses of this which are coming in fast and furious
and they're gross, and I happen to pause it with
enough time to see a few of them, and some

(25:26):
of them are just like, oh, I want to play
with you, or you're so pretty. One says do you
like to wear your bra? Which I thought, this guy,
you're not going to be the guy that I don't know.
She's that You're probably not gonna be the one she
chooses to meet up with for you to go do sex.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
Tourism or whatever.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Anyway, this woman is a plant like live Live goes feeder.
Some more lines and they're waiting for a response to
pop up in New York City, Uh and Barba's there,
as well as Lieutenant Declan Murphy aka Rollin's baby daddy
Uh played by Donald and I honestly don't know where
we are in time here. I don't know if this

(26:03):
is when they have hooked up or what, but you
know they're there together on screen. After thirty minutes, there
are eight hundred responses to this, like you know trap
that they're setting. Liv is talking to Lucky the girl
and she's dropped the accent obviously.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
She said this is a dirty job.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
But I like getting these guys, and Barba's looking at
the map of the responses and he goes heavy in
Eastern Bloc China and the American South, and Finn goes
no comment.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
So you know, get they like to get political.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
So so far they've gotten hits in other burrows, but
they're thirsty for a Manhattan purp and so far only
one is popped up. And he's got a screen name
flash and his IP address shows of course he works
for the city. There is not one civil servant in
the whole city of New York who's not a PERV
that is downloading child sex abuse images on this show.

(26:56):
So they roll up to the cubicle of Gordon mont
Leaf and it's Kevin from the Office, and wildly, I
have never known his real name.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
I just looked it up. His name is Brian Baumgartner.
Did you know that? I feel like I I watched
The Office, but it's like.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
I know Angela Kinsey, I know the names of the
other people on the Office.

Speaker 3 (27:18):
He's always just Kevin to me. I've never known his
real name.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
He was a fucking judge on a last comic standing
when my husband was on it. Did not ever know
his real name, like he is my least favorite person
on the office. Also, like, I watched the Office pretty
religiously and he always drove me, Like I don't there's
something about him I don't like.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
So we'll be calling him Kevin from the Office the
whole time.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
He thinks that they're there for payroll, and then they
do a big reveal.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
Lucky is with them and.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
She takes off her best baseball gap and she's like
remember me and does her Lucky voice, and Finn's like,
how about that stud saved you a trip to Bangkok
and he obviously looks terrified. He's like fuck, and they
arrest him, and Amaro goes, let's go Flash, which feels
like a read because he's very unflash, Like, you know,
there's like nothing flash about this guy. So we go

(28:07):
to the So now we're at the credits and at
the top of act one, we're in cement room bars
and Kevin from the Office is giving the old standby
I was just chatting. We were just talking and they're
like about sex with a fourteen year old and he's like, no,
I saw her. She is not fourteen, and they're like,
it doesn't matter. You thought she was fourteen and He's like,
I'm arrested for what I was thinking, And that is

(28:29):
a good question, like did he have actual Like I
don't know, did he have material?

Speaker 3 (28:36):
Did he have plans to meet her? Like who knows?

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Amaro's behind the glass with Murphy and Benson being like,
let's just lock this guy up, and it's like I
did think you have to like show them showing up
to meet someone. It's like the whole premise of to
catch a predator. It's like you can't just bust them
based on their IP address. You have to have them
showing up with the Mike's hard lemonade and the condoms,
you know, in order to get them. So I do
think it's a little weird. Tomorrow's like, let's just throw

(29:01):
him in jail. It's like, I don't know if we're there.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Well, it's all very interesting and it's going to keep
going deeper and deeper in this episode.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
But it is like.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
We always talk about this was socking or it's like,
well when can we arrest someone? Right, and we'll get
into it with the real crime too, but it's like, yeah,
it's a really.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
They do a good job of really getting you to
think about the situation, Yes, for sure. So Murphy's explaining,
he goes, look, this case needs to evolve, like we
need to use these little guppies to catch the big sharks,
you know, like this guy will give us somebody bigger, hopefully.
Amorrow's like grossed out at the idea of cutting deals
with pedophiles, and he's like giving Murphy a lot of attitude,

(29:40):
and then he walks out and lives like he's dealing
with some personal stuff right now, and it's like, yeah,
he hates his wife, and a few episodes ago he
blindly shot into a hallway and killed an unarmed black teen.
Like have we ever seen Tomorrow happy one day in
his life? Like, I don't think we've ever seen a
happy day from.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Eve fucking Rollin. Yes, that a mad mood.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
He was still in a badmin still pissy. It's like,
you're fucking the hottest woman probably on the squad. And
I don't know what the hell I was gonna say,
the hottest woman ever, But Laura Nanty's also very gorgeous,
so you know he's had many hot women.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
He is very hot.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Back in the room, Rollins is trying to get flashed
to give up more info, and he's like, ah, these.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
Guys are sickos. Like I don't want to turn on them.
They'll kill me, they'll come after me.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
And Finn, you know, does the thing we just talked
about last episode where it's like, yeah, well in prison,
you're gonna get raped, like you know, like as a pedophile,
people are not gonna be nice to you in prison.
And Rollins and Finn report to go back and talk
to live in Murphy and they're like, I don't know,
this guy doesn't seem like he has much.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
Murphy goes, maybe he just needs a shoulder to cry on. Finn.
Now cut to.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Finn throwing Murphy in disguise into the holding cell.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
This guy fucking loves going undercover.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
I feel like Murphy is like, oh, do you guys
need something that any uniformed crop could do.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
I'll do it. I'll be there.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Like remember when he's in like the cablenit Irish fisherman sweater,
like soliciting sex workers, trying to get Ellie Porter.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
I think like.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
He's he's all over the place, uh, you know, trying
to be undercover.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
So he's in there.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
With like they greased his hair up. He's wearing literally
like child molestered glasses. Finn shoves him into the holding cell,
calling him Chomo loudly and being like, you two will
get along. So he tells Kevin from the office that
he got tricked by a girl named Lucky.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Okay, okay, and this guy he's like, he's trying to
win an Emmy, the Emmy of the Squad, Like he
is so committed to this performance.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
Yes, like it's it's so funny. He's wearing molester glasses,
his hair is greasy, he's so method.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
I am like, I went, I went.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
He went home after this idea and like practice right,
He's like, let me call my coach.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
He got on. He got on a zoom with his
acting coach. Definitely. I mean he's crying. He's so hot.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Why won't you do have we asked him? We got
to get him on the pod. We should try to
get him on. I watched Grounded for Life. I mean
he's also in Sons of Anarchy, which you know I'm
a huge fan.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
Well, no, I don't know that. Well I didn't know
he was in.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah, yeah, I didn't know about Grounded for Life? Is
that a sickcom He was.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
In yeah, it was kind of like married with like, yeah,
they were poor, maybe a little roseanny. I think it
was not a fox, but yeah, grounded for life and
there was a redheaded daughter.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
We gotta get him, let's put him on the list.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
But you know, the actor donal Logue is great and
also Declan Murphy is a great actor.

Speaker 3 (32:35):
He's crying, he's going.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
My life is over because he goes, I can't go
back to prison.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
You don't know what they do to us there.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
And then the grand finale he pisses himself and it's
not like later he goes, yeah, I just had like
a bag of water in my pocket. Nope, they don't
ever bring it up that he just fucking pissed himself
for real. And Kevin from the office is like, dog,
you can't piss in here, and he's trying to get cops.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
To help him. No one will even look at him.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
So they've just locked him in a cage with a
fucking lieutenant with a passion for acting and his piss
and they're trying to get him to give up more info.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
I mean, that is what undercover cops are.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
It's like men that wanted to do theater their parents
didn't let them, and now they're doing a hardcore undercover
method acting.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yeah yeah too at some and sometimes it's just to
save exotic animals. So cut to tomorrow, he's with Maria
and Zara. They're walking in the park. Zara wants ice
cream and Maria a fun killer, goes you can get
a lemon ice small like you're like, wow, okay, policings.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
Already weird, I know, and then Zara.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Scurries off to let the unhappy couple chat and Maria's like, listen,
I got a job offer in La. It's more than
both of us make. And Nick is like, you're gonna
take Zara away from me? And she's like no, I
mean I was thinking maybe you could come too, Like
you're very chill, laid back by would be a great
match for California. And she's like, I see what this

(34:05):
job is doing to you, like it's killing you. I
think you could get a fresh start, like lots of
options out there for detectives. And he's like, are you
asking me to move with you? And it's like you
do not like each other? Why why does this keep happening?
Like you guys hate each other? And then she's like
let's just take it one step at a time. And
he's like, all right, let me think about it, and
then it like he's like, I gotta get back to work.

(34:28):
So back at the office, they're showing Barbara the mini
tablet that they've gotten from Kevin from the office, and
it's like a travel guide to the dark Net. He
gave it up in exchange for help, he claims. He's like,
I'm just a voyeur. But there's guys on there that
go a lot further. And this is kind of where
I don't really buy it. I don't really buy that
on the dark net, on the Internet, there are like

(34:50):
regular like sort of hobbyist pedophiles hanging out with like
people that are dark want to buy like organs, want
to like murder. Like I just don't think you wander
into those chat rooms, you know what I mean. I
think it's like you go where you are comfortable with
the content that's happening on the dark Web. I don't
really think it's like I just wanted to like talk

(35:11):
to a fourteen year old girl about her bra and
then you're like suddenly these guys are saying they want
to kill people, you know, Like I just don't get
to think that that's someone can feel free to write
in if you're expert at the dark Web and let
me know. But it doesn't feel like it's like AOL
chat rooms where you can just like ding dong and
go into a different one. So he pointed them to
this guy who goes by the screen name Erastes, and

(35:32):
Barbara reads a post of his out loud, which is disturbing.
It's about him torturing and murdering a boy that he's
watching on a school playground, and Barba's like, okay, cool,
this is horrifying, but it's online. It's fantasy. Like, there's
a lot of horrifying shit on the Internet. And Murphy's like, look,
we're giving you a heads up. We're not asking for
your blessing. And it's like wow, he's hungry for more

(35:53):
undercover work, so he's like, one more undercover meet. If
it's a fantasy, we walk away. If not live, asks Barba,
do you want to be the one who fucked this up?
So now Rollins and Murphy are dulled up play in
house undercover as an art collecting couple. They've got Rollin's
hair all teased up with some height she's in an

(36:14):
all white outfit and they're at this gallery checking out
photography okay, and it's you know, you can sort of
see that it's of young people, but you can't really
tell anything yet. A woman approaches them and she's like, oh,
this is my favorite piece as well. And they're like, oh,
are you a collector and she's like no. The photographer
Simon Wilkes is my husband. Murphy immediately's like, oh man,

(36:36):
I'm a huge fan of Can I meet him? She's like, oh, yeah,
he's over there. And the actor playing Simon Wilkes is
Josh Molina, and he is huge star of West Wing
and Scandal fame like, he's a regular on both those shows.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Those are both shows I've never watched.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
But I think if you've watched Scandal or West Wing,
you're like, oh, yes, know this guy very well. He
must have a lot of nice properties because he's got
like hundreds of regular credits on his IMDb. Murphy leaves
Rollins to spend their imaginary money on art, and he's like,
just get a price, babe, and then he introduces himself
to Simon as Howard Jeffries and he immediately starts like

(37:15):
drooling over an adolescent boy in a photo and he goes, yeah,
flash wasn't wrong, and Simon's like wait what, and he's like,
he said, you might have some edgier work that would
appeal to me, like studies of a schoolyard. I think
that's like the name of the little poem that he
put on his.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
H But it's also easy, like if you're a peed
of like this is so I would if someone, I'd
be like, what are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Buy?

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Bye, yeah, it' kind of any money he's rich, Like
what yeah, why would you risk every But I get like,
risk it all for your crimes, but to just loosely
just chat with any old guy at your art gallery
who could easily be a cop. I mean it's not
like he's the not cosucking who believes that anyone is
into this art like it is family photos. And then
they show his wedding photo like that he's a wedding photographer.

(38:02):
Like the two don't meet, Like if you're in a
gallery selling art, you are not doing wedding photography.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
And bar Metzvah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
It's just all like they it's just the art is weird.
It's just kids on a beat. It's just it's weird.
It's weird, yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
It is, And it is like I get that they
have to do for this show, but it's like, if
this was real, you would they would just be If
this was in real life, they would just be following
this guy online for months trying to get him to
do something great or say something, rather than going to
his place of business and being like, hint, hint, I
also love teen boys, you know, but alas this is television,
Simon picks up what he's putting down. Murphy's like, let's

(38:44):
set a meet. He takes the bait. They agree to
meet at a bar in an hour near a public school. Okay,
so at the bar now Murphy is working this guy.
He's like, yeah, I met Flash online. He told me
about the Schoolyard series. And it's like, again, why are
Flash and Erastes even chilling if Slash is sewn not

(39:05):
into this kind of shit. So Simon talks about how,
you know, the ancient Greek celebrated the beauty of the
young male body, unshaven and unspoiled, and Murphy's like, yeah,
it's just it's more than just appreciation for us guys, right,
And Simon's like, well, for me, it's fantasy, and Murphy goes, yeah,
but what if it wasn't. And they moved to a

(39:26):
more discreete table, like they're at the bar. We can't
have the bartender hearing us. They moved just to a
table five feet away, and Murphy's like, look, i gotta
tell you I'm loaded and I've got the money to
make whatever you want happen. And Murphy's like, we should
both turn off our cell phones as a side of trust.
So then they're like, where were we. Oh, yes, we
were talking about money and young boys, and Simon's like,

(39:49):
and not just sex with them, right, like you with me.
And he's holding like a small knife in his hands
suddenly that he's just like using, He's just touching with
his fingers, like it's weird.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
And then Simon goes, this is about commitment. Are you
willing to commit? And you know?

Speaker 1 (40:07):
So now they're playing the tape for Barbara and Barba's like, dude,
this is very close to entrapman, Like you're the one
who brought up getting a boy, and Murphy's like, yeah,
but he's the one who brought up getting the boy
for more than sex.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
So they've checked on, they've talked to the wife. The
wife loves his ass.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Fin's like she's a sick oh too, this guy has
no record, and Barba's like, look, we can't indict people
for imagining things, like show me something substantial and we'll
have a different combo. But and Murphy's like, lawyers think
too much. I'm going to get this guy like he's fucked,
like we're gonna find him. So he tells the gang
go back to Gordon aka Kevin from the office. So

(40:45):
now I didn't realize this, but Kevin from the Office
is at Rikers.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
What the charges I'm unclear.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
I don't know what the charge is talking to somebody, yes,
soliciting a miner online, I don't know. So he's at Rikers.
He wants to He's like begging them, like get me
in to solitary. Like he is wearing his orange jumpsuit
and he does not enjoy prison life. Finn and Omarro
are like, yeah, yeah, we'll help you, but we need
some more info on your boy. Erastes like did he
ever talk about hurting boys? And Kevin's like, I just

(41:13):
like to watch. I am not into this shit. I
don't fuck with that. And he's like a few months back,
there was this live stream from Estonia and he and
it's like, were you on the live stream to Estonia?

Speaker 3 (41:25):
You paid to be on that?

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Like, you don't just stumble on a live stream from Estonia.
That's why I don't get me in. And he's probably lying,
but still it's like he says he kept sending messages
to the Master asking him to hurt the boy, make
him bleed, and Kevin's like, so I turned it off
because I don't.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
Even know how I got there.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
And later he says Erastes Bragg that he'd watched the
boy die on this live stream. So then Erasi said
to Kevin, we would find we should find a boy
that nobody would miss. Again, Erasti's is just like, hi, flash,
my best friend that's not into anything I'm into. Here's
everything I'm thinking in my mind, Like what do you think?

(42:05):
And Kevin's just like, I don't want to do that.
And then they just keep being friends online. I don't
get it. Well, they're probably starves for connection, you know, right,
Really he can't wait to talk to someone about a
pedophile I know, Diya rasses could find plenty of other
people in the dark web who want to hurt people,
like or watch a kid like bleed or whatever, you know,
like it's so it's also gross, but so we should

(42:28):
find a boy no one will miss done done that's like,
you know, that to them is like signaling that.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
He's ready to act. So back at the.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Squad, they're filling in the rest of the gang in
about damage groups, which are online groups where people take
live requests to torture young kids.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
I googled this term and it's the only.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
Thing it is is about dungeons and dragons, So I'm
praying it's not a real thing, and if it is,
I don't know if it's called damage groups anyway, Finn says,
the kids with the dark skin in these damage groups
get it worse because the bruises don't show, which is
so sick. They're like, we gave all the info to Interpol,
and Murphy's like, it's not gonna fucking do anything, like

(43:11):
go let's go back to Gordon's accounts. So then Murphy
asks Finn, why don't you hang back? The gang all
takes off, including live to like go work on more,
checking out more of Gordon, this guy who apparently does
barely anything, and Murphy's like, hang back, Finn, and he's like,
oh man, this shit is so horrific.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
How long have you been dealing with this?

Speaker 1 (43:31):
And he's like, well, I've been on the show since
season two, so fourteen years before that, I was in
narcotics for eight years. And he goes and that was worse.
He's like, there's so much corruption in the drug world.
In SVU, it's black and white. You touch women, your kids,
your garbage. And Finn's like, I want this Simon Wilks
guy in a cage, And Murphy's like, how about tonight,
And Finn's like, name the time and place. So these

(43:53):
two are gonna go rogue. I guess outside they're leaving
the precinct. Rolins bounces to hit up a gambler's anonymous meeting,
and Live finally has a chance to talk to Tomorrow
about his miserable life and he tells her about the
job offer and Maria suggesting that he goes with and
Live is like, are you thinking of going? And he's like,
my life is here, Like I don't want to fight her,
but she's not taking my kid away from me. I mean,

(44:13):
let's not forget his mother is in New York, his
newly found son is in New York, and so he's like,
I'm not letting her take Zara. And then Live looks torn,
And it's crazy because the look on Liv's face brought
me back to a place that I was in in
two thousand and like fourteen or fifteen, when I was
watching these episodes Live, I really thought her and Tomorrow

(44:34):
had a thing. I thought they were going to get together,
and they honestly aren't. They aren't, And I think part
of me was just like her and Stabler, Her and Stablers.
So whoever fills the stable role, it's going to be
like another romance. And I just like plugged him into that.
And like, Liv looks torn in this photo, and I'm like,
she's sad because she's in love with him, but I
think she probably just doesn't want to lose her partner,

(44:54):
lose a good detective, lose a friend. But in my mind,
I thought she was horny for him, and maybe she was,
but I don't think it's now that I'm watching back twelve,
now that I've seen every episode twelve times, I don't
get that feeling.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
As much, no, but also like, yeah, I'm sure of
like everyone wants to fuck Amorrow.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Yeah, yes, yes, It's not like he's some weird, quirky choice,
you know.

Speaker 3 (45:16):
It's just like that's.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
A man and were and he's simply damaged, which is
what Live has chosen to get. A violent man with damage, yes,
who cannot control himself or his badge and his gun.

Speaker 3 (45:30):
Oh lie, and break the I mean, god damn it.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
I'm like so pissed for Live right now, Like, I yeah,
I don't know why she can't just date somebody who
with generational wealth anyway. So suddenly we've got Simon, Wilks
and Murphy undercover meeting with an also undercover Finn, who's
offering them anything they need, drugs, women, anything but guns.

(45:58):
Seems like a weird boundary, that's what That's what he's saying.
Murphy says, how about boys, and Simon's like, yeah, like
younger than teens, Like yeah, just so you know, I
don't want like a fourteen year old. I don't want
like an old, grosspost pubescent teen. I want younger, and
Finn just chuckles and goes, no grass on the infield.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
Ugh uh.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
And then Wilkes straight up goes someone no one will
come looking for. So Finn undercover obviously is like, yeah,
El Salvador, Mexico. It's doable, but it's gonna be forty
k all in and Murphy's like, well, we need to
see the kid first, and then Simon's like, no way, wait, wait,
I don't have that kind of cash. And it's like,
first of all, I thought you were a big photographer

(46:39):
with like an art gallery, and like you have this
you know whatever.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
I thought you were this big photographer.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Second of all, this guy Murphy hears telling you he's
going to bankroll the whole thing. Just get the kid
if that's what you want, and he's like undercover Finn
is like I'm out of here. This guy's got no
skin in the game. And then Simon goes, no, I
can do better. I've got a soundproof hitten.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
No way is this better. In no way is this better.
In no way is better. This opens you up to
so much more of a chance of getting caught.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
It's so crazy, like you would think that in the
steps of acceleration of an absolute psychopath like this guy is,
you'd be like, oh great, I'm gonna let this rich guy,
buy me a kid and then I'll kill it and
will be good, you know. And then he's like, no, no, no, no,
I want to do like the Tyson versus Paul of
murdering children, Like what are you talking about? So he's like,

(47:29):
he goes, I have a soundproof hidden venue, and Finn's like,
and what does that do for me?

Speaker 3 (47:34):
And he goes live stream it. People will pay.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
So now suddenly we're gonna be live streaming the murder
of this kid that we haven't even procured yet. So
now they're at Simon's photography studio and Finn.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Is looking why would he get into this, like like
I don't.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Well, it's crazy crazy. Suddenly you're streaming like there's no way. Yeah,
someone in a criminal enterprise would add that to it.
I mean because the guns where you're like, why does
it matter? It's like, I bet it's time. I bet
it's prison time.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
I bet like guns are just, unfortunately that's true, worse
than women are trafficking or trafficking or drugs. I guess,
like guns might just have a heavier sentence or not
be worth it, or fingerprints maybe, like that's.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Scandal that we covered for sure, there's all kind they're
always after guns.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
No, sometimes I say things out and about and yeah,
yeah in terms of the darkness and the depth that
we go into certain things is like insane. But sometimes
I do feel like I don't actually know these things,
like I've never been to law school, but I will
act like I have. Like when I'm out and about,

(48:47):
I'm like, this is my profession actually, and it's like
I retain no information.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
But I know stands for Universe University, so that is
where we went, both of us. We were maledictorians. And
that's just that. If you want to show me some law,
you can show me as many law briefs as you want.
We've already said we don't understand them, we can't read them.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Now I am gonna read the Luigi FBI. Yes, like
that is the all I have for myself, and I
want to do that. Yeah, because it seemed like a
woman that I found a video was just like all
this stuff doesn't make sense, so I want to get
in there.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
Yeah, I love experts.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
I'm more likely to watch a video of like a
long YouTube of someone explaining it to me because I
don't feel like it.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
But we don't know where.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
These people are. That's what I realize. I'm listening to
these people and I'm like, who are you? You could yeah,
you can be a hoarder, you could hit your kids.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
I don't know you.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
I know you are bad, like maybe you're a bitch,
cheer mother in law, Like I don't fucking know who
you are, but you are telling people how to raise
their family, and people are listening like this is the
Jenny McCarthy, Like everyone on her phone is a Jenny
McCarthy spewing their shit.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yeah, and they don't have anything, none of us. Like
it's a mess.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
It's a mess I've been because now the check book,
the check mark doesn't matter anymore either.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
I can buy that too.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
So it's like there's also it's not like, oh this
is a professor. It's like I'm sure he raped a student,
Like I.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Just stop buy it. It's I've been seeing so much
of that, especially with health stuff like you can't eat,
you can't eat this die.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
This die is banned in Europe.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
And then it's like they're like, I'm a nutritionist, and
then another nutritionist who I trust more is like that's
all lies, Like here's the examples and I'm like, I
don't know which one of you to believe. So it's crazy. No,
someone will be like that, dumb bitch.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
And I'm a real there's some plastic surgeons I follow,
but like there's before and aff like they they look legit,
like the plastic surgeons. I see the incisions, like I'm in.
You wouldn't be able to get those photos without being
I don't know, we're.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Not who fucks. So I really want to read this
fb I report. But yeah, the U for US views University.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
We gotta get it. We gotta get Okay, maybe I'll
attempt the report as well. We'll see. But now we
do enough. We do enough.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
But I'm pissed about the Washington Post because it was
a good source.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
But I'm not renewing. I'm not renewing.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
No, they are going down there fucking that. Shit's crazy,
but it all is fair. It's all like fuck, there's
no trust in the media. There's no trust in the media.
But that's what they wanted to do. They like, it's
just like it's great, Okay, go back to go back
to this fun episode about murdering little boys in a
torture room. I don't want to think about the realities

(51:40):
of our leadership. Get this deal a little lighter than
the you know, dissolution of our country's media and journalism
is what's happening at Simon's photography studio, and it is,
but also this like this like torture Chamber is millions
for sure, and your wife looks like a dumb bitch.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Your wife is zannied out. She's like a dumb bitch.
She'll do whatever you say.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
For some reason.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
This woman is wrapped around this little beady man for sure.
So this isn't a hot dude or charming or cool.
And the art's bad, Like it's really a mystery. It's
hard to it's hard to understand. But we find out
later that it's not the first woman that's falling for it. Okay,
so we're at Simon's photography studio. Finn's looking at the

(52:26):
pictures on the wall and he goes, not my style,
and then Simon goes very Samantha Jones, yes, And then
Simon goes his wife likes him.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
She bought a couple.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
And I just love the idea that the NYPD has,
Like what an art budget for people that are going undercover?
Like they love physically bought some of the art as
a fake couple in their sting, Like.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
That's where the five point eight billion dollar budgets going.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Yeah, for their acting passions.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Yes, they roins, probably Rolin's probably wearing designer. I mean
they're like, take the tags off, girl. This is all
going on the NYPD.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
No, every whenever they.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Go undercover, it is it is like, you do need
to have an ID, you do need to have framed
photos like you do, or your person can die. So
like I do understand that, and I am curious at
the reality.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Of that for sure, But I bet they could have said,
we're gonna take these two. I'll call my assistant to
set it up. You don't actually have to like buy
the artwork of this guy that you're like fucking stinging.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
That's just so funny to me. So they take he
takes them back to this like room. He moves like
a shelf unit out of the way to a secret
entryway and he goes, I've soundproofed everything. No one can
hear the screams, and then he holds up a little
kid's PJ top and like wiggles it. When he says no,

(53:50):
one can hear the screams, and it's just a very
disturbing touch by the props department that he just that's
not in the room, that's outside of the room, just
a little pair of little boys JS.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
I don't I don't love that. So in the secret room,
it's I disagree.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
You're like, you're like, actually throws a great touch. I
mean it is a good touch for absolutely creeping me out,
you know. Like so in the secret room, it's a
full nightmare. It's state of the art surgical equipment. It
kind of reminds me there's a room like this and
the girl with the dragon tattoo. I don't know if
you've seen that, but like the guy has a room
like this where it's like bright fluorescent lights, surgical tables, saws,

(54:27):
drains in the floor for blood. Like this is a
torture chamber, like of the highest regals of your night
nurse of your nightmare.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Like I don't know what's like turning on torture devices
and it is like it's it reminds me of the
Erica Christiansen as he's just gonna ask you sat scary.
It's scary. I don't want to be tortured in someone's
torture chamber. It haunts me. It is a big fear,
and I think about it all the time. But I
don't know if I've mentioned this on this podcast, but

(54:57):
like me, and I'm sure I haven't repeat things all
the time. But like me and a group, this was
a long time ago, in my twenties, I guess that's
not that long ago. Listen, we all did DMT, me
and my group of friends, and we all took turns,
and we each went one at a time, and all
of us have, like, you know, a good time. And

(55:19):
my one friend he is stressed and he's he starts
smoking cigarettes and his baths about the window, right like
he's like stressed out, but he doesn't want to fuck
with our highs, so like we don't actually know what's
going on. And then after we all get a turn
and have our time, he goes.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
That was the worst thing of my life.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
I felt like I was being like strapped to gurney
being tortured, and there was nothing I could do about it.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
WHOA, I know who you're talking about, because you've told
me this.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
I don't know if you've said it on the podcast,
but yeah, it is oh so scary.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
I mean, that's what I think when we talk about
some of these crimes.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
I'm just like, I truly like if I hit my
thigh on any corner at my house, I'm like, oh.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
I know, I don't.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
I know. I would like if I was in a
d like, you're gonna have to just do this quick.
You're gonna have to I can't. That's the whole point.
I think I have to act like I like it.
That's like all I could do. I think I'd have
to act like I like it, I know, but then
I would get worse, Like I don't know what I would.
I would just like, yeah, I'm trying to decide, like
what's freakier. Like the signature one is so freaky, but

(56:24):
it's like in the woods, and they make it extremely
dirty and like nasty. It's like, no, it wasn't in
the woods.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
The crime scene was in the woods, but the torture
chamber was in like storage boxes.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Oh okay, in story it was in a storage unit place. Yeah,
and it was dirty and gross, right.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
And like I don't remember that. This one is like
so clinical and procedural.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
It's like they're equally freaky in different ways to me,
but anyway, torture rooms obviously not a top not a
great thing.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
No, And then the only thing worse I can think
of is that submarine case, like being about like being
tortured in a submarine. You know, there's no way out, Like,
I just can't believe people go through this.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
It's really hard to wrap your brain around it.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
It's so horrific, and we don't like deal with the
root issue.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Yeah, yeah, and actually which is men, yes, yes, well,
And a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned this movie
Red Rooms that I watched over the holiday break, and
this is very similar to what happens in that movie.
It's like the serial killer tortures people online for a

(57:39):
live stream and you don't see any of it, you
just hear it, and the sound design is terrifying. So
it's like, you know, there's obviously people are making media
about this kind of thing. It's obviously something people fucking
think about. But it's so gross. And this guy Simon

(58:01):
is looking so horny in this torture room and he goes,
the boys I bring in here are henceforth never the same.
Then he picks up a bone saw and he goes
you want skin in the game. Let's peel it off
that boy as a reference to what Finn said earlier,
and he starts buzzing the saw and it's really just
like so scary, like it's it's terrifying. So top of

(58:24):
act three, the cops have He did not get very far.
The cops are in the court torture room. They're searching it.
They're going through every inch. Again, I would have said, great,
let's go through with this, let's get this, let's find
a boy, or let's find let's let's like lure him
more so that we can actually get him. Right, they

(58:47):
bring him. They figure they've got him because they found
this torture room. The cops are searching every inch. Barba's there.
There is a window that looks onto a playground, just
like what he talked about in his creepy poem about
torturing kids. Rollins is kind of incredulous that any crime
has been committed there. She's like it's pristine, Like, what
do you think he does with the bodies? Like once
he gets them here, and Murphy's like check the drains

(59:09):
for chemicals, a bone fragment, any physical evidence. And then
Finn rolls up with these photos that he found in
a wall, and they don't show them to us, but
they're clearly nasty. And now in cement room, bars Live
and Rowlands are with us Simon and he's insisting this
is all fantasy, nothing happened, and Lives like, well, we
found the photos of you torturing boys in that room

(59:30):
and he's like, oh no, those are photoshopped. He also
claims that the whole deal to buy a boy who
no one would miss was a game. He's like, I
thought we all thought that was a game. And Rollins
is trying to play good cop. And because Benson is
going in like really hard and again, this is her
William Lewis season.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
We got to give her some slack too, I know.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
But they're all so rude about bringing it up, like
not to bring up the Beverly Hills Housewives, but it's
like you're weaponizing her experience every time. I mean, you'll
get to it, but they always are like, are you
sure your head's in the game. Are you thinking about
the time you were tortured and kidnapped?

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
You know? It's so rude. I hate that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
So but Benson's going in hard on the guy, and
Murphy pulls her out and Live his pissed. She's like,
i've been here fifteen minutes. You've been here fifteen seconds,
Like you're pulling me out of an interrogation, like no,
and he's like, well, you're just yelling at him. You're
supposed to align yourself with him, get him on your side,
and then he brings up William Lewis like exactly what
you're saying, Like is this you getting your anger out

(01:00:30):
on William Lewis. It's like, fuck off, dude, and Lives
like I got the message, and she's like I also
have a therapist, so you can just fuck right off
and she leaves and then Murphy's like tomorrow, you get
in there. You align yourself with Simon and Amarro's like
ew with this guy and he does not have a choice.
So Amaro goes in and is like, oh so sorry
about Benson. You okay, booboo, Like he's like really being

(01:00:52):
so nice to him. It's like over the top, and
Simon is like, I'm an artist. This is art. Art
is supposed to be shocking and provoke. It's digital trump
Lloy and Omarrow's like I get it. I see so
much horrible shit in my job. When I get home,
sometimes I watch some videos as a release and it's like,
he doesn't say what's in the videos whatever, but he's implying.

(01:01:12):
I guess that they're He watches fucking child sex abuse
images for a release and Simon's like, exactly, and then
Morolins is like, but what about the boy And he's like,
there was no boy.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
I never paid any money.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
And they're like, and the fully outfitted torture room, and
he goes, that's my meditation room. I'm the only one
who's been in it. You won't find anything in there.
Then in Busts, my big fact Greek weddings start, they also.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
But they also don't even have jigs in there, so
he's not even like masturbating in there, like he's such
a little weirdo.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
Well, they they do find DNA in there, so they might.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
I thought it was just fingerprints, Oh it was it
was the sperm.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
I think they said it was his DNA, and I
assumed it was jizz, but I'm not okay.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
It could be sweat, it could be anything. Who knows.
But some of our Dallas is there. We've seen her before.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
She's defense attorney Menona Ephron, and Simon's wife hired her,
and she's like, get out of here.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
I want the room so I can speak to my client.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
So Amar and Rawlins come out, and Amara is like
so sickened by what he just had to say to
get to this guy, and he's like, don't forget. I
have two kids, including a ten year old son that
I just found out about. So now at arraignment, Simon
pleads not guilty, and Barba says, the charges against him
are especially heinous and I don't know if there's like
another time where I've heard them say especially heinous on

(01:02:31):
the show, so I feel like this is an important milestone.
And he explains all of the charges and Monona counters
and is like he's an artist with an active imagination.
There is no forensic evidence of criminal behavior. Barbara makes
a interesting comparison. He goes a grenade with a pinpull
hasn't blown up yet, but it's still a danger to
everyone around it, and the judge is like, I gotta

(01:02:52):
go with you on that one.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
Dog.

Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
I'm with that, Like I like that this show kind
of bends and stuff, but it is just like what
we're gonna wait, he does get a boy.

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
Yes, what are we talking about? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Yeah, And the judge sets the bail at five million
dollars cash and Monona's like that's punitive, and the Judge's like, bitch,
shut up, I'm doing it. So at the precinct, Murphy
is storming into the bullpen like okay. The good news
is is that Wilkes has been remanded I guess, just
meaning that he doesn't have the money to pay for
the bail and he's getting a psychoval. But the bad
news is it's tough to try a case with no victims, Like, yeah,

(01:03:28):
very tough. Other bad news is that it turns out
those photos really were photoshopped. Amarro's like, I've got another
need lead though, there was a special needs boy from
a nearby school who went missing for six days last
year and when they found him, he had no idea
where he'd been. So now we're seeing a montage of
the gang out canvassing playgrounds with a photo of Simon.
People are like, no, sorry, don't recognize him. We've got

(01:03:50):
a bunch of kids going to lineups. They're not picking
him out of the lineup. They've got nothing, so except
some moms recognized him and said they've seen him out
taking pictures, but nothing else. None of the kids picked
him out of a lineup that none of these kids
that are in open molestation cases, and the special needs
boy who disappeared didn't identify him, so kind of it
didn't go anywhere.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
It does turn out.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
That he has an ex wife and a son living
in Toronto and they're avoiding the NYPD calls. He said
they also found fluids, prints and all kinds of DNA
in the torture room, and then Rollins goes the bad news.

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
It's all Simon's so I guess he is schureking it
in there. Well they're like, well, he just cleaned the
place really well.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
And Rollins's like, no, guys, you don't get it, Like,
how could he there's no sign of bleach. How could
he get rid of everybody else's DNA but his own?
Like that's not how it works, Like if there was,
if it was bleached, it'd be completely clean, no DNA,
and Amaro's like, but he told us what he did
to kids in there, Like why would anyone make that up?
Cue the psychical Okay, and we got our boy, George

(01:04:54):
Hwang back in the box and I'm excited.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
He's like, you know, very calm.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
He like, I'm a guy from both sides that agreed
to evaluate you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
So here we go.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
George Wang says, have you ever been in therapy? And
he goes, no, I never had the need. Okay, red
flag and he's like, the only thing I did was
I spoke to the wrong people about my fantasy life.
And Huang's like, yeah, let's explore your very graphic fantasy life.
But Dick Wolf does not want us to hear that conversation,
so we cut to Barbara Benson and Murphy walking and

(01:05:26):
talking with Wang, who tells them to be honest.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
He scares me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
One of the biggest things is he's never sought treatment,
but he's been having these fantasies in his head since childhood.
They'd become more graphic over time. A few years ago,
the thoughts evolved into the photoshop photos, then building that room.

Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
So he's escalating, like an addict.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Will he act on these impulses, they ask Huang, and
Huang is like, listen, some people talk about taking their
own lives. We worry about them when they buy a gun.
And that torture chamber is an arsenal. So that's when
you start to worry, you know. So now the meeting
with him and his lawyer, and she's like, well, what
are you offering? And Barbara goes intensive supervision. He moves

(01:06:06):
out of a school zone, and he goes on the registry.
I think that sounds fair, fair, right, Like I think
that sounds pretty good for like you won't cry your south,
No one cares. Yeah, I don't know how many barmetzvahs
you're gonna be getting into around teens. But uh, Simon
seems jazzed. He goes no jail time, and Manona's like,

(01:06:29):
hold on, he didn't even do anything and lives like okay,
but a jury is not gonna love the photos of
that torture chamber, like the saws, the chairs, the drains,
And Manona's like, okay, so you're just gonna go after
this man for his thoughts. That is a gross violation
of civil liberties. And Barbara comes for her and goes,
who are you representing here? Your activist friends looking for

(01:06:51):
a test case so they can fundraise, or your client,
and then she calls his bluff and goes, Simon, Barba's
just trying to make you doubt me, and she shoves
the offer back in their face and is like, I
dare you to take this to trial. So no, I
loved it. They're just trying to shake your confidence in me.
I'm like, I was obsessed with her here. Yeah, she
just had it handled. Not stressed, but pissed and like

(01:07:13):
put them in their place. Yeah, and she you could
tell she's totally like this is a landmark case about thought.

Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
She's a psycho bitch? Wasn't she not?

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
William Lewis's attorney. She's a dumb bitch, was she? I
feel like she was.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
She's definitely represented some psychos. She definitely has whole on.
Let me see few. Let's see who her clients are. Okay,
she's had Jeremy Jones from the episode Criminal Hatred, Lena
Olsen from Rapist Anonymous, Simon Wilkes, and then Jenna Scott.

Speaker 3 (01:07:51):
She represents the girl who raped her friend in the.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Episode we just did, the girl who catfished her friend
and then like came in and like, what's rape in
the night?

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
I remember that? Okay? Well, she represents a rapists anonymous.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
It's basically like making a murderer where the guy gets
out of jail exonerated. Then he kills the daughter and
then the mother kills him. I think, and she represents her.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
She's really such a bigger fix, that's in my head
because then she also gets this guy, like I think
he hates being gay and he like rapes sky people. Yeah,
Jeremy Jones, serial rapist Robert will Later a murderer, but
I feel like he.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Is ah okay, and I was completely wrong about that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
Lena Olsen is a totally different person.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
She's a recovering alcoholic who stocked and murdered her lover,
fellow alcoholic Jean Firestein, when he refused to lie.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
This is This is the one where we had Amanda
Seifried's husband on it and it was like the AA
meetings and the fifteenth Steps. That was that I can't
believe that this is it. So she those are her
known client. I'm like shocked. Those are her four Yeah,
in my head, she's been in fifteen episodes and was
William Lewis's attorney.

Speaker 3 (01:09:03):
That is.

Speaker 4 (01:09:06):
She.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
But she just gives me evil bitch but like good
at her job. I don't know, It's like tough, okay.
So now we're in court Barba's questioning Finn. He explains, yes,
Simon told me he wanted to torture a young boy
to death in there. And now it's Monona's turn and
she's like, well, in your hundreds of crime scenes that
you've processed in your many years on the job, how

(01:09:28):
common is it for there to be zero evidence of
a crime? And Finn's like, it happens, and then she's
kind of running circles around him.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
She's like, we can't know for sure. He even brought
another person into that room, like you know, this is
not this is a nothing burger basically, which I hate that.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
I don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
If I was on the jury, I'd be like, keep
this man off the streets totally.

Speaker 3 (01:09:49):
I don't care. I would have totally been like guilty. Yeah. Same.

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
Now it's Amorrow's turn and she brings up him talking
to Simon about watching videos for release.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
She's like, was that true?

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
And he's like, no, I was trying to get on
his side, and she's like, so you shared a fantasy
to get a reaction. Isn't that what Simon did? And
Tomarro goes, he built a room, which that to me
is like the crux of the episode. Yes, it's not
just about your your thoughts, like you can have as
many fucked up thoughts as you want. He built a
room that would facilitate those thoughts, you know what I mean. Like,

(01:10:23):
and then she I love his line.

Speaker 3 (01:10:25):
Reading of that. He just goes, he built a room
like it's so good.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
And then now she bates Tomorrow about judging people's behavior
based on past statements and goes, could anyone have predicted
that you would snap one night and go after three
boys with a baseball bat? And Tomorrow's like, they came
after me, they sprayed my house with bullets. I don't
even remember what that's from.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
Well, I think it's people being pissed when he murdered
that kill someone.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, probably from Amorrow's one to eighty.
And I'm just like blacking it out. But Barbara, like
Barba objects and she goes with drawn like she's doing
a lot of dirty move with heraw like that's like
where she brings up incendiary shit and then goes, what's ron,
it's a very it's.

Speaker 3 (01:11:06):
A Buchanan move. I feel like Buchanon does that a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
So now.

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):
Yeah, yeah, now they've.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
Got Wong on the stand, Yes, we do love. Delaney
Huang is on the stand and Monona is having a
harder time getting at him, like she's like, are you
telling the jury you can predict beyond a reasonable a
doubt when someone is going to commit a crime, And
he's like, bitch, my job is to evaluate.

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
I'm giving you my evaluation.

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
And then she takes a dig at him, calling him
a psychic, and there's an objection.

Speaker 3 (01:11:36):
She's like with drawn again.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
So she's being now she's being petty and caddy and
nasty to our Huong. So outside the courtroom, the gang
is discussing it. They're like, I don't know if the
jury's going to go for this. And then finally a
little like array of hope, a little bit of good news.
Rollins gets to get a text the what ex wife
is willing to talk to them?

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
So did they call her on the phone? Did they
get on Skype?

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
No? They send tomorrow and Rollins to Toronto toot Sweet
to speak to paula Walker who looked so familiar to me.
So I looked her up and her name, the actress
is Welker White, and she looks very familiar to me.

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
She's been in two other.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
Svus, some that we've one that we've covered, I think,
and she's been a bunch of Scorre Sasey movies. Then
I see that she's married to another actor, So you know,
I got a click. I click on who he is
she is married to? You know the episode we do
with some of our live shows, or just look like
one from season one, Remember how there's like a douchey
novelist named Hampton Trill and they go to his amazing apartment. Yeah,

(01:12:37):
him and munch like fight. She's married to Hampton Trill. Wow,
I love a little SVU. Connect the dots. The guy,
the actor's name is Damian Young. He's in a bunch
of law and order, like so is she she's in.
He's in a bunch of regular law and order and
criminal intent and stuff like that. I think, or just
look like one is his only SVU. But so anyway,
they're like a little theater couple. She's like, she's like

(01:12:59):
a well known I think theater coach and professor and
stuff are acting coach and stuff. So anyway, I liked
looking that. And she's been in all these Scorsese movies.
She's in Goodfellas anyway, She shocked they found her. She's like,
I change my name, I got off the internet. I
didn't even think that Simon knew where I moved after
I remarried, So like, she's really surprised that they've been

(01:13:20):
able to track her down. She says when she first
met Simon, he was magnetic. She was very attracted to him. Again,
Lisa doesn't get it. I don't get it, but there's
something there with these women. They're loving him. But she
said he had a darkness. She could feel it. She
started to notice the way he would slam his laptop
shut whenever she entered the room, and then one day

(01:13:41):
he left it open, and he was messaging with people
about her and about their son, Bobby, and about the
things that he would let these people on the internet
do to his wife and son.

Speaker 3 (01:13:51):
Can you believe how fucking timely this is crazy? I
was thinking that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
I was like, this is like that woman, this is
like Giselle Pellico, like this is crazy. And Bobby at
the time was six years old, and this guy's online
going here's what you guys can do to my wife
and son. He said it was a game when she
asked him, But she's like, you know, he knew he
had to get the hell away from us, and I
just told Bobby that his dad was sick, and I

(01:14:15):
made a deal with him that if he agreed to
never see Bobby again or be around children, I would
keep quiet. So she's like, you're telling me this torture
room that you found is across the street from a
grade school. She's like, clearly he broke the deal, right.
So back in court, Simon is on the stand. Against
his lawyer's advice, Monona needs to let everyone know I

(01:14:37):
did not want this for him, okay, and he goes,
I just want the jury to see that I am
super normal and that they too could be targeted for
simply their thoughts and constructing a probably million dollar fucking
torture room in their studio. Now it's Barba's turn, and
he brings up Simon's ex wife and son and asks

(01:14:58):
are you in contact with them? And he's like, I don't.
He's flustered. He's like, I don't see what that has
to do with anything, and then boom, the timing always
on the show. It's like they've got PA's and they
go to the ex wife and son. Let's go so
as he's on the stand talking about his ex wife
and son. They walk into the courtroom. Okay, the son
is a teen now. He looks very awkward. He's I'm

(01:15:18):
sure it's very awkward to say, we need to go
to New York so that we can see your dad.
You haven't seen in like ten years. He's got a
torture room. We're not sure if he did anything, but
you just get in the car. Like, So they bring
Bobby and Simon is. Simon makes a long eye contact
with his ex wife right like, she's like, you know

(01:15:39):
why I'm here.

Speaker 3 (01:15:40):
You went against our deal.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
Okay, So Barbara asks again, why aren't you in touch
with your ex and your son? And he's like, I
knew I couldn't be around them because of the pictures
in my head.

Speaker 3 (01:15:51):
And he goes.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Barba goes, didn't your ex make you leave because she
was afraid you were going to act on your urges?
And Simon goes, no, no, it was my decision. I
didn't hurt him, he's my son, never hurt him. But
he's getting upset like he knows like maybe he would
have hurt his son. He is, and Monona looks like, fuck,
this really just fucked my I was really smooth sailing
until just now. So now it's Barba's closing statement. He

(01:16:14):
mentions the torture videos that Simon's watched. He's describing the
horrible torture room, the saw, the drains for blood, Like
did he get a plumber in there?

Speaker 3 (01:16:23):
Drains don't just go to nowhere? You know what I mean.
You can't like self installed drains to plumbing.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
Like, yeah, he doesn't give me the YouTube and do
it myself vibe.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Yeah, so I'm confused about the plumbing needs that he
uh employed to maake this room happen. But anyway, he's
like telling the jury, if Simon was so afraid that
he might hurt his own son that he left him,
shouldn't we be equally as concerned. And Monona's turn now
with her aggressive side part. I mean, her hair is
like all the way to the side is once again

(01:16:53):
bringing up the zero victim, zero nobody, no crime, right
like zero victims, zero evidence, zero crime. He's an artist
who pushes boundaries and then she goes, have you ever
had thoughts you knew you'd never act on? I know
I have cheating killing your spouse? Think about it? Actually
don't think about it, or you'll be where mister Wilkes
is now. And it's like she has a fucking point.

(01:17:17):
But the room, I mean, it all goes back to
the room. If the room didn't exist, we would not
be here. Monona muscles her way into the elevator in
the next scene to confront Barbara.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
She's like, nice, it's also like, we're usually meaner pedophiles
to this idea of like it's just the fantasy he has.
It's like, no, we don't like people that fantasize and
go on sites that have like, yeah, him visiting the
sites should have at least gotten him lesser charges.

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
Yeah, And also, are you allowed to photoshop material like that?
Or I mean, are you allowed to photoshop child sex
abuse images? Like you're not right? Like I think it's
its own charge. It's like, but I don't know. I
guess it's if that's the whole thing they're saying, now,
how all this child sexabaste images is made up of
not real children?

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
So is that okay?

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
If it's like a fully digitally created child that's not
real in these in this material? Is that illegal? That's
like a whole thing that people are discussing. I don't
fucking know. It's it's like horrible, but I don't know, Okay.
In the next scene, Monona muscles her way into the
elevator to confront Barbara. She's like, nice move with the

(01:18:27):
X and the kid bringing them in to rattle him,
and Barba's like, ever, wonder why he's so rattled, Like
what are the thoughts in his head about his own son?
And then she goes, do you want to live in
a world where you can be put in prison for
what's in your head? And, like I wrote here one
of the top moral conundrum SVU episodes. I don't want
anyone to go to prison for what's in their head,

(01:18:47):
but I want to go in prison when they buy
a bunch of saws and they are clearly escalating. It's
like what you said about stalking, Like I can think
about Brad pitt All, I fucking want. I can have
dreams that we are having sex for hours. If I
start sitting outside of his house and then I buy
a gun, that's when we have to start talking about
what's going on with me, you know, Like that's it's

(01:19:08):
just to me, Like the room is everything, and the
saws and the drains.

Speaker 3 (01:19:14):
So at the court it's verdict time.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
Uh oh, not guilty on all charges or on both charges.
The gang looks stressed, disappointed. His wife hugs him. She's
been standing by him the whole time. She's like, what
can I say? I love my bar Mitzvah photographer husband
who dreams about like fully murdering children, like in a
violent way.

Speaker 3 (01:19:35):
What can I say? He's just an artist. You guys
don't get him.

Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
I mean, I say that, But then it's like every
single serial killer has a wife they met like in prison,
you know, or like people that have like a million
women writing them in prison. So I guess I get
why people are can be into this kind of thing.
I can fix him. So after court, we haven't seen
this before. The gang is at a restaurant, dream in

(01:20:00):
their stars away at a little circular table. It looks
like it looks like very midtown, right, It's like or downtown.
It's got like like leather red booths, white tablecloths, and
no one's eating. They're just all drinking and they're drinking
their stars away. They're trying to tell Barbara, hey, no
big deal, you did it. You did a really good job. Considering,
and then Simon and his wife a Monona walk in

(01:20:22):
which I don't think we've seen a post court wink
wink at the same eating establishment and Manona like nods
to Barbara and Nick like can't handle it, like he
there's this scene is solely to build up Nick's rage,
like Nick wants to pop off on this guy, like
so bad. So next thing we see is him kissing
Zaragobye putting her in a car, and he's like, okay, Maria,

(01:20:43):
so we'll keep talking then and she's like, actually, no, babe,
I'm taking the job. And he's like what the fuck
And she's like, no, no, you can come too, and
he's like, and do what check Id's at a movie
studio gate, which is fun. You could probably do more
than that, sir, like, but it was a funny little
it's a funny little nod to what he thinks LA
is for people with like detectives.

Speaker 3 (01:21:05):
I have my He's like, I have my mom my
recently discovered son. Like I'll fight you on this, and she's.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
Like, honey, you think that the court is gonna give
the kid to you? Who shot an unarmed black teen
has all these like aggressive like incidents on your jacket
or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
She goes.

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
If you want to fight me, you want to take
me to court, I'm gonna have to bring up stuff that.

Speaker 3 (01:21:26):
You really don't want on the record. So you better
let this go.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
Like you attacking a guy I was dating, like all
that shit, you know, like, and Nick's like, fuck, she's right.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
I didn't even think that's true because.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
We interviewed that guy for mus Dominic r Yah yeah dominic.

Speaker 3 (01:21:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
And I'll never forget when he goes theater. People are
the best. And I go, honey, like what, let's be real,
But I'll always remember him for that.

Speaker 3 (01:21:53):
So yeah, a blessing.

Speaker 1 (01:21:55):
So Nick stupidly thinking because he's a fucking idiot man
who just literally does everything in his life without thinking,
never thought for a second. Oh wait, actually, if she
just wants to take zar to California, she probably could.
I have a lot of fucked up stuff I've done, like,
I don't know how it's gonna work out in court.
And so next thing we see is fucking torture room

(01:22:18):
Tommy Simon Wilkes with a big ass paparazzi camera just
snapping pictures of kids on a playground without consent. I
don't think that's legal, but he's just doing it and
Nick walks up to him and goes, you got five.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
I can't believe they couldn't even get him to a
deal where it's like you can't be on a playground
like right, I just feel like the prosecute the city
fucking flopped, like you can't get him on anything.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
And now he's more empowered than ever. He's like I'm untouchable.
They can't get me. Right, So he's sitting there snapping
away at these kids, like he's snapping through a fence,
Like how good are these pictures gonna be?

Speaker 3 (01:22:54):
But also how is not one parent like popping off?

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
Yes, Like for I feel like that's an immediate you're
not even supposed to be.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
Well, I'm imagining the snake park in Highland Park, like
if some they're snapping photos, they would be the Richard
Ramirez mob, Like there's no way that would.

Speaker 3 (01:23:14):
Be, no way, no way.

Speaker 1 (01:23:16):
And a lot of these parks do have rules that
you're not allowed to be there without a kid.

Speaker 3 (01:23:20):
But he is on the sidewalk.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
This guy fucking knows how to skirt the wall all
the time, like he's not in the playground.

Speaker 3 (01:23:26):
He's on the sidewalk, so that's what he says.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
Nick goes, you got five seconds to put that camera down,
and he goes, this is a public sidewalk. You can't
control me. And then he goes smile and goes to
take a picture of Amorrow.

Speaker 3 (01:23:38):
I mean that's on him.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
Sorry, Yeah, like you deserve to get like that, Yeah,
like taking a picture without consent.

Speaker 3 (01:23:46):
So Amorrow goes to grab his camera and then Simon
punches him, and that sets Nick all the way off.

Speaker 1 (01:23:53):
He starts beating the shit out of Simon, like he
is down on the ground at Tomorrow is just punching
and fucking kicking and going to town on Simon. The
cops come. Nick's like, I'm on the job. I'm on
the job. But they take him away, and that's dick
wolf baby of Amorrow making probably I think his last
bad decision on us for you, Like I think this

(01:24:13):
is this is the end of the road for him.
But go on and tell me all about the real crime.

Speaker 3 (01:24:20):
And I hope it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
There's no room with drains, drainless drainless crime. Okay, so
this is Gilberto Valley. I would say, I'm gonna say
Gilberto Valley and, as The New York Post called him,

(01:24:46):
the cannibal Cop.

Speaker 3 (01:24:48):
Okay and cannibal cops.

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
First article that comes up is from January twenty twenty.
First and it's Cannibal Cop dishes on Army Hammer's scandal.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
Oh no, they brought him in as a celebrity sour,
so no, and.

Speaker 3 (01:25:04):
The New York Post does not quit. Here are some
more headlines.

Speaker 2 (01:25:08):
Cannibal Cop dishes on how his twisted role plays come
to a boil. Cannibal Cop says he's a hot dish
on the dating scene. And then one of them says,
Cannibal Cop interested in attending law school, so I will
fill you in on everything. So basically, his estrange wife

(01:25:31):
discovers a porno collection on his computer and contacts the FBI.
So in October twenty twelve, this New York City police
officer is charged with conspiring to kidnap, torture, cook, and
eat women whose names he listed in his computer. He
was twenty eight at the time from living in Forest Hills, Queens.

(01:25:51):
He also is charged in conspiring to cross state lines
to kidnap the women, and with illegally accessing a federal database.

Speaker 3 (01:26:00):
Oh my god, that's honestly the reaction I wanted. That's
so scary.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
So if you want to eat women and cross state lines,
you also can't be a cop.

Speaker 3 (01:26:13):
Like, sorry, it is too much pick a lane. That's
I mean, we're not lost.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
Cultureisas but that is rule of cult. That's a rule
of culture. If you want to eat women across state lines,
you cannot be a Cops are not.

Speaker 3 (01:26:30):
It's gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
So the maximum sentence for these crimes could be life
in prison. And this started when investigators uncovered a file
on Valley's computer containing the names and pictures of at
least one hundred women and the addresses and physical descriptions
of some of them. And it said he had undertaken
like surveillance of some of these women at their workplace

(01:26:52):
and at their homes. So excerpts from a July online
cop So he had like three co conspirators as well,
So like he was talking to real people on the
internet about real plans, and so there are like these
unnamed people so whatever from a July online convo, He's
quoted saying I can just show up at her home unannounced.

(01:27:14):
It will not alert her, and I can knock her out,
wait until dark, and kidnap her right out of her
home and this is ruders. And then she also, I
was thinking of tying her body onto some kind of apparatus,
cook her over a low heat, keep her alive as
long as possible.

Speaker 3 (01:27:31):
Like that's what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:27:32):
You can't be punished for your thoughts, but like you
can't have these thoughts, like sorry, yeah, you can't want
to cook women on a low temp because if you
have an opportunity to do it, you would take it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:45):
Yeah, why are you not seeking out help that these
are your thoughts?

Speaker 3 (01:27:50):
Well, yeah, that's from the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
Yeah, and I don't even need therapy and like that's
what long was so on the money with, Like you
don't even think something's wrong with these fantasies that you're having.

Speaker 3 (01:28:03):
Yeah, anyways.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
Other quotes This is from the New York Times. Part
of me wants to put her in the oven while
she is still alive, but at a very low heat,
makes some bacon strips off of her belly. He said
he would kidnap a woman for five grand and he
had a document called abducting and Cooking a blueprint. This

(01:28:26):
is truly like a Simpsons episode to have more evidence.
This evidence is so funny, Like, I mean, he was
legit googling, like how do I chloroform a woman?

Speaker 3 (01:28:39):
Like he was googling all of these things, and you're
a cop.

Speaker 1 (01:28:42):
You don't even know they're gonna like they can check
your Google history, like I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:28:47):
Other descriptions stringing a victim up by her feet and
cutting her throat, letting her bleed out, than butcher her
while she.

Speaker 3 (01:28:53):
Hangs the New York Times.

Speaker 2 (01:28:55):
God, she'll be trussed up like a turkey, terrified, screaming
and trying the daily news. His cop buddy involved in
an investigation, said that this was just an online fantasy game.

Speaker 3 (01:29:08):
Just a game. That's the big thing. It's just a game.

Speaker 2 (01:29:13):
He goes, I became part of the cyber community where
people are exploring deviant thoughts and exploring their fetishes. Make
you try and out to the other person. Who could
be the sicker one, who could be the more depraved one?
The baby was sleeping, the mom was sleeping. There was
just nothing to do.

Speaker 1 (01:29:28):
So, oh my god, you're BOREDE So you're like, how
can we torture and kill someone the most disgusting way?
I mean, let me just ask a question as I'm
thinking out loud. I don't know if I have a
point here, because this is obviously disgusting and these are
bad thoughts to have, but like, there are people making
movies of this kind of shit all the time. Like

(01:29:49):
Jared just told me about this horror movie he saw
from Taiwan that was horrific. He told me about one
scene in it that I was like, that's so disgusting.
And people are fully making movies and physical representations of
these things happening all the time. So do you think
these guys think like, oh, yeah, we're just kind of

(01:30:09):
like doing that, but with our friends on the internet, Like,
I don't know, I hate it. This is why I
don't watch horror movies. It's not fun for me to
see people in pain or to imagine people in pain
as a fantasy, But yet people love horror movies. Casey
cared away in.

Speaker 3 (01:30:30):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:30:30):
I think it's I think there's a difference there between
like making an art piece that's representative of an idea,
whereas these guys want to be a part of it's
more involved than yeah, creation.

Speaker 3 (01:30:45):
It's not passive viewing. It's because I want yellow jackets.

Speaker 2 (01:30:49):
They're can they're eating each other, and I'm not like
we got to get her.

Speaker 1 (01:30:52):
Yeah, but I mean, yes, they're eating each other, like
from Survival. And also a lot of horror movies, of course,
have deeper themes, like they're not just about murdering and
torture and whatever, like, there's often themes about other things
in it, so it is art.

Speaker 3 (01:31:07):
But I don't know, these fucking guys are just tell
us the TaiWhen he's seen, tell us what he told you.
So I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
I guess the brief description I was given was that,
like this, you have this disorder that like makes your
inhibitions completely go away, so you're everybody is just turning
into like a full psychotic, like fucking murdering crazy person
when they get this sickness. And this guy, this woman's
eye gets ripped out of her head and then he
he he has sucks with the eyehole. And I know

(01:31:38):
that skull fucking's not a new thing, but it seemed
it sounded so disgusting to me when it was explained.
Is that not that doesn't seem like it's really making
a big impact on either of you.

Speaker 5 (01:31:49):
I mean, it's disturbing and uh, Jared really seeks this
stuff out.

Speaker 1 (01:31:55):
That's so hard, Like while while she's alive, as she's alive,
she's alive.

Speaker 3 (01:32:03):
Sorry I should have mentioned that, like that change is out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
Sorry, it's not like an empty skull that's like you
find No, she's alive.

Speaker 3 (01:32:11):
Does she get away?

Speaker 1 (01:32:13):
I don't know what happens. I didn't watch this movie.
That's like all I heard of that. Of that one scene.
I literally sent it to Alison and Halle and was like,
Jared says, you guys should do this for Ruin.

Speaker 3 (01:32:24):
Sorry Alison, but.

Speaker 1 (01:32:29):
Yeah, so anyway, I don't even know what I'm trying
to I obviously know it's different. It's just like I
could see these fucking weirdos go, Yeah, we're just trying
to talk about what's more disgusting to each other on
the internet. But then again, much like in the episode,
this guy having a list of real women circled and

(01:32:50):
the database and that he's talk.

Speaker 3 (01:32:52):
To another level. That's not my kids. Yeah, that's not
like my kids asleep.

Speaker 1 (01:32:57):
So I'm online talking to some random dudes about what's
than something out like trying to one up each other
in grossness like that that changes it. But well, anyway,
talking about this fucking psychocop.

Speaker 2 (01:33:09):
So he claims, uh, you know that once he shuts
down the computer, he goes back to being regular him.
You know, that's just his fantasy life. But that's just
not true.

Speaker 3 (01:33:18):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
According to the Federal Park one of the federal prosecutors
Hadasa Waxman.

Speaker 3 (01:33:24):
I bet a jew. I wouldn't bet against you on
that one, Hadasa. I do like that.

Speaker 2 (01:33:33):
I know someone of the Pomeranian named Hadassa, and pretty fun.

Speaker 1 (01:33:37):
It was the name of Sarah Silverman's puppet on Crank Anchors,
wasn't it.

Speaker 3 (01:33:41):
I don't know. That's a big.

Speaker 2 (01:33:45):
She said to The New York Times that he communicated
with three co conspirators about his plans, like I mentioned earlier,
to commit this crime, and even used a police car
while in uniform to conduct surveillance of a woman. He
used the fucking National Crime Information Center to get information
on women, and he had files on at least one
hundred of these women, So fuck off. Judge Henry Pittman

(01:34:06):
denied him bail, and like in the episode, has attorney
Julia Gado, but she was a public defender argued it's
all talk and according to Ruters, there's no actual crossing
the line from fantasy to reality, your honor, but there was.
I mean, he searched online for methods, used the database
to collective info on victims, and was conducting surveillance. So

(01:34:26):
the Manhattan Federal prosecutor, like I said, Jadasa told the
judge that, like damn, he came as close as he
possibly could come short of kidnapping a woman, drugging her
and cooking her and actually eating her, Like excuse me,
what the fuck are you talking about? Like what do

(01:34:47):
you actually want him to do? He used his job
to get secret information on women that he wants to cook, Like,
fuck you, what do you want of him?

Speaker 3 (01:34:55):
Okay? So, and he knew some of the women, like
he and his wife.

Speaker 2 (01:35:00):
I went to visit one of these call old college friends,
and he wrote about her. When I see her Sunday,
my mouth will be watering.

Speaker 3 (01:35:07):
And he wrote that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:08):
He wrote that three days before the brunch, and then
he wrote eyeing her from head to toe and longed
for the day I can cram a chloroform soaked rag
in her face.

Speaker 3 (01:35:19):
New York Times.

Speaker 2 (01:35:22):
And like I said, googled how to abducts a girl,
how to chloroform a girl that's planning. He was convicted
of kidnapping conspiracy in March twenty thirteen.

Speaker 3 (01:35:30):
Okay, okay, he was, I mean, you're not gonna be okay.

Speaker 2 (01:35:33):
So then he was fired from the police department upon
his conviction, which I'm actually shocked about. And then the
United States Attorney in Manhattan, pre Bahara, said, the jury
of six men six women unanimously found that he mister
Valley's detail and specific plans to abduct women for the
purpose of committing grotesque crimes was very real, and that's

(01:35:53):
The New York Times also found guilty of illegally gaining
access to a law enforcement database. He thinks nothing ever
left the internet, so nothing happened to anyone, Okay. So
then the summer of twenty fourteen, the officer's conviction is overturned.
The federal judge said there was not sufficient evidence to
support it.

Speaker 3 (01:36:15):
Paul G.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
Gardefi, the federal he's the judge in the Federal District
Court of Manhattan, acquitted him on the serious count of
kidnapping and conspiracy, which was like, that's what gives you
the life in prison. He just said that the prosecution
did not demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that he entered
into a genuine agreement to kidnap a woman, or that

(01:36:36):
he specifically intended to commit a kidnapping the times The
judge did, however, uphold Valley's conviction on the second count
of illegally gaining access to the database, which carries just
a max of one year sentence. He got like one
year of probation and needs to continue to get mental
health treatment. He can't contact the women involved in the case,
and he can't visit any fetish websites. He was also

(01:36:59):
given like house, but he had already served twenty one
months in prison during this time, during all these courts
and stuff, he like wasn't a lot of bail and
so and then seven of those months were in solitary confinement,
and so all of that was counted as time served.

Speaker 3 (01:37:14):
And oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:37:15):
And another fun little fact that while he was on
the inside, he became the prison cook.

Speaker 3 (01:37:19):
He was a cook in prison. No he's read no,
oh man.

Speaker 2 (01:37:28):
The government appealed and wanted the conviction to be reinstated,
but they lost in the US Court of Appeals on
December third, twenty fifteen, and they upheld Vale's acquito Valley's acquittal,
and he just kept being like, I'm not capable of violence.
I couldn't hurt anyone. You're a cop with a gun
and a baton. What are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (01:37:45):
Yeah? Have you literally not trained to commit violence against someone?
If you have to?

Speaker 2 (01:37:50):
I have a non consequential detail for my research. So
his you know, his mom is a boy mom, Elizabeth Valley,
and in The New York Times wrote about her, she
picked crumbs of pound cake that she has been eating
off her skirt before the hearing began.

Speaker 1 (01:38:08):
And I just think that's like us so Gray painting
a picture. This is the kind of journalism you can
kiss goodbye. And the new regime everyone.

Speaker 3 (01:38:21):
Yeah, I just fucking love it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:24):
As of twenty nineteen, he worked in construction, but he's
not happy about it. And now here's a twist, all right,
case serre listening. He writes extreme horror novels. What yeah,
So if you wanna, I have okay, So then if
you want to read his novel, So there's one and
the cover is a tied up, bloody woman and it's

(01:38:47):
called a Gathering of Evil, Evil, Gathering of Evil and
was optioned in twenty nineteen for a movie. It's gut
churning according to Goodreads lol, and it's about violent, wealthy
sadists that meet online through the dark Web and then
turn their twisted fantasies into realities. The hunt is on, well,

(01:39:08):
the Praise Survive, The Gathering of Evil and the Prey
is you know, two women, and his good Reads bio
he goes, listen, I was wrongfully arrested, and it's like,
you were found guilty. You did, you were found guilty
of something you did use a database at your job wrongly.
But yeah, he has a memoir called Raw Deal, and

(01:39:30):
then he also has a sequel to Gathering of Evil.

Speaker 3 (01:39:33):
I don't know why I can't say evil Avail.

Speaker 2 (01:39:40):
Yeah, the Gathering of the social catalog of Prey. And
he's like a guest at Crime Con and Killer Core
and stuff, and I think he's doing fine. And if
you want to watch a film, there's something called Thought
Crimes where he is featured heavily.

Speaker 3 (01:39:59):
I think it was HBO or something.

Speaker 1 (01:40:01):
Yeah, yeah, I think I heard of the HBO. Is
it it's a doc?

Speaker 3 (01:40:05):
I don't know. Yeah, it's a dock because he's like
being in a kid what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:40:11):
I mean, Yeah, they're so similar, but this is this
one is like, yeah, there's no fucking torture room, but
this one's worse because it's like a cop with all
the access.

Speaker 2 (01:40:20):
Yeah, he should have gotten more than a year. I
guess he was inside for twenty one months, but like
I don't know. Oh my god, I think misusing your
power as a cop to look at files you shouldn't
look at should give you more time. Yeah, but also
the co conspirators, did they get charged?

Speaker 3 (01:40:39):
You know, there's like a lot of questions.

Speaker 2 (01:40:42):
I really feel like I've been like like I feel
like I'm having an Elwoods moment.

Speaker 3 (01:40:47):
Why the sperm? Why? Now?

Speaker 2 (01:40:50):
I've really been unlocked in a huge way with this
Luigi trial.

Speaker 1 (01:40:55):
Are you gonna unlock? You know that it unlocks the
ammonia clyglothelate.

Speaker 3 (01:41:01):
I can't say what the thing?

Speaker 2 (01:41:02):
I can't. I can't. I can't even try to say it.
And you know what, now that we finished, I'm so
hungry and I have half the sandwich in my fridge,
like wow.

Speaker 1 (01:41:13):
Ready to go? And he tried to have you're allowed
to eat a sandwich. You're not allowed to eat a
woman that you cooked at low temp.

Speaker 2 (01:41:20):
I can't believe I read all that, and I'm like,
I can't wait to eat this bacon sandwich, Like I'm
truly about to eat bacon.

Speaker 3 (01:41:26):
Serious, truly about to eat bacon. Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:41:29):
Well, we don't have a guest, so we're just gonna
pop right into the post mortem.

Speaker 3 (01:41:37):
Thought criminal.

Speaker 2 (01:41:39):
It is a thinker. I like when it's open ended.
I mean, no, he's beat up soon, but I.

Speaker 1 (01:41:46):
Like, I mean, I don't think Amaro beating him up
is gonna stop him. He's gonna like heel up and
like start back on his quest to find I mean,
that guy probably eventually moves out of the city and
goes somewhere where he can like easily and torture kids
without being so under the microscope now that the NYPD
has his number, or really actually do it.

Speaker 3 (01:42:08):
I don't know, you want to go to jail? What
you have brought a kid in?

Speaker 2 (01:42:12):
They arrested too early to like make this point of
an episode, But in terms of police work, I feel
like they would have waited and like set up a
fake kid, you know, like right, like god, ur yeah,
they had more evidence and like built up a case
like right, Yeah, that's that's my guess if it was
real life. Yeah, because they usually like whenever they've done stings,

(01:42:33):
they're like, oh, you can't, like if it's one of
the ladies, like dressing up as a sex worker, it's
like you can't do anything until they show money or
like whatever. You know, Like there's always like I wonder
if I wonder how stings work with like kids though,
like if you could get like if there's ever like
a nine year old or something that they can get,
well you but.

Speaker 3 (01:42:52):
Just the money has to be exchanged.

Speaker 2 (01:42:53):
Yeah, the photos speaking like that, you don't need to
bring in a kid or you bring in you know
that girl, what is it?

Speaker 3 (01:43:00):
Turner syndrome?

Speaker 1 (01:43:01):
You get, you get you get someone to Turner syndrome exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:43:07):
Episode. But what were you do? You had something?

Speaker 1 (01:43:10):
Ye know?

Speaker 2 (01:43:10):
I'm actually because like because of this show, you know,
it's like you know, I'm always looking for what's going on.

Speaker 1 (01:43:18):
Yeah, because I'm suspicious. But basically I was out with people,
but three of us girls were waiting for a car,
and our guy friend just went by and started walking
away and didn't wait for us to get in our ubers,
And I'm like livid and I'm gonna have a talk.

Speaker 3 (01:43:35):
I'm like pissed. I'm like, I, yeah, what are you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:43:38):
Why would you just I'm like, I have actually not
one friend in my life any gender that would do that. Yeah,
you wait for the people with the ubers to leave
if you live close.

Speaker 3 (01:43:48):
Like what are we doing here? Yeah that's so true.
I mean I'm always the last.

Speaker 1 (01:43:52):
To leave, so like, I yeah, I feel like I
wait for people.

Speaker 3 (01:43:56):
But that's yeah, I'm pissed. You got to give a talk.
He's going to get a talk. He's getting a talk anyway.
I don't know this was a good actor.

Speaker 2 (01:44:07):
The wife's a dumb bitch, Like why are people so
lenient with pedophilia and torture? Like and like even if
he didn't have a body of a body victim, I
don't you think a torture room would be grounds for divorce?
Like is that how desperate the state of the world is?
You're just you listen, it's a torture room. It's fine.
What are we doing here?

Speaker 3 (01:44:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:44:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:44:28):
Yeah, Like it's because I want to know did she
know about the torture room? And if that's you finding
out for the first time or you're not, like okay,
but honey, I think you spent like a million dollars
on your hobby and didn't tell me anything, like on
your fantasy or whatever you're calling it, you know, like
so and to show up in court every single day
to support Now she's something she's pilled up or something

(01:44:51):
she's not following.

Speaker 2 (01:44:52):
Well, she reminds me of Martin Schwart's wife in that episode.

Speaker 1 (01:44:56):
Yes, Sebastian, Yeah, yeah, she's like he loves.

Speaker 3 (01:45:01):
Me, but yeah, good fucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:45:05):
But like again, now that we have this shitty government
for the next four years, it does make me wonder
like what kind of stuff Not obviously to the point
of making a torture room, but I don't know. This
kind of thing makes you think about, like what can
you be get in trouble for saying or thinking or

(01:45:26):
like you're you're if you're putting out weird shit on
the internet, Like I think he's gonna fucking punish people
that are writing shit on the internet. So I'm like,
we are about to be punished for thought crime soon.
Maybe allegedly he's fucking rich loser dorks and the men
who have such a warped idea of well, I didn't

(01:45:47):
watch I didn't watch any of the podcast you saw.

Speaker 3 (01:45:49):
Jeff Ross was at the inauguration. He was, yeah, I
mean I.

Speaker 2 (01:45:54):
Followed I should have a long time ago, Like yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:45:58):
That means I can't go to his How any morny
is such a nice pool, forget it. I'm not going.

Speaker 2 (01:46:03):
Oh no, It's like the line needs to be drawn
because we're gonna be seen as crazy. Like I already
saw this podcast that I really like the two guys
being like, stop, you don't get Carrie Underwood, like what
like you would say no if the sitting president asks
for an interview, you do it. It's a it's a
bucketless thing. Why are you blaming people? And it's like
I would never sit down with a psychopath like that,

(01:46:24):
Like no, stop saying that. Stop normalizing it. And they're
making us seem alarmist and wild and how everything is normal,
like oh you're And it's like, no, making this seem
normal or not a big deal or business as usual
is the craziest thing of all, and that we can't
let them gaslight us.

Speaker 3 (01:46:41):
My My one cool.

Speaker 2 (01:46:43):
Thing is I get to go on stage all the
time and there's people from other places and I get
to say crazy shit.

Speaker 1 (01:46:49):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you get it. That is good
your help. Maybe you're changing anybody's mind.

Speaker 3 (01:46:54):
I know they probably go.

Speaker 2 (01:46:55):
Back home and go we we need to we need
we need to put leashes on the women.

Speaker 3 (01:46:59):
Put it in.

Speaker 1 (01:47:01):
But there's a comedy in New York. They let him
talk into mics. We got to stop this before it
gets here. But there was so there's a comic.

Speaker 2 (01:47:08):
You know this is but they do more like more music,
so like they do kind of sing songy crowd or
like it's kind of a show. It's you know, it's different.
And they were he was like, oh, how's the crowd?
And I'm like, honey, I don't we do different things.
I just told him I want rich people's blood in
the street. It's like, I think you'll be fine with
your callin callin. Think you and your ukulele will be fine. Yeah,

(01:47:31):
but people liked it. I don't know, but I think
that's like all I have until my voice is taken
away is how I feel. And I'm privileged, Like it's
not like I'm gonna be I'm not first under attack,
but we have to be like there for all the
people that are so vulnerable right now.

Speaker 3 (01:47:46):
But obviously I'm scared for my future too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:47:50):
Yeah, no, totally, and I'm scared I will be uh silenced.
I didn't watch any of it because I was just like,
I can't. My kids accidentally turned on the cable and
it was on. I was like, get this off the TV.
So I was like not watching any of it. But
then I did see obviously the Hyle Hitler and all
the comments underneath on CNN were like, oh my god,
you guys will come up with anything. Just what you're saying,

(01:48:11):
like gaslighting, acting like that's not what he's doing. And
then like also just the fact that the four tech
billionaires were in front of the cabinet members. They're upfront,
they're in front of the people that he's chosen to
lead the country is besos and whatever, all the if
the Google guy and Musk and all of them, like

(01:48:33):
and Zuckerberg, what a fucking fuck.

Speaker 3 (01:48:36):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:48:37):
I mean, it's, uh, we're gonna do our best the
next four years, but I don't fucking know what's happening.

Speaker 3 (01:48:42):
Uh should we get into our what would sister peg do?

Speaker 1 (01:48:46):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (01:48:46):
Should we jump off a bridge?

Speaker 1 (01:48:48):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:48:50):
I did like the Obama clip of him going what
can we do to stop this? There was Yeah, he
said it to George Bush when he walked on there
and he was like, hey, what's up, like you know
the deaf girl?

Speaker 3 (01:49:02):
Yeah, so she uh so, she was like that. She
said that Obama said what can we do to stop this?

Speaker 2 (01:49:10):
Or I wish there's something we could do to stop this,
and like George giggled a little, you know, well I
just saw a clip of Jenna Bush or yeah, she's
the one on the Good Morning America or without with Hoda.
So she said that she told Ben Stiller during his
severance press that her mom's favorite movie is Zoolander. Barbara

(01:49:35):
Bush's favorite movie is Zoolander. That's hilarious, but.

Speaker 1 (01:49:37):
Barbara is George's mom. Yeah, Laura Bush, Laura Bush, Sorry,
Laura Bush. She said, like, that's hilarious. That's even more
funny to me.

Speaker 2 (01:49:46):
She goes going around in circle people were like talking
about movies and shash and she said she recently went Zoolander.

Speaker 3 (01:49:55):
I wonder who's going to take over for Hoda or you.

Speaker 2 (01:49:58):
Know right now they have such good people because in
my head, I'm like Michelle Buteau. Yeah, would she want
that but she's about to be in a movie, so yeah,
So I mean, I don't know. I'll text her try
to get some gos out of her.

Speaker 1 (01:50:11):
You got to be up at like four three am
every day, but then you're done, but then you're with
your kids and you're done. But she's also a workaholic,
so she would still probably do stand up and figure
out time how to film.

Speaker 2 (01:50:22):
But I wonder if she'd want something that daily or
like coming in and out. I loved I loved it.

Speaker 3 (01:50:27):
I think about it.

Speaker 1 (01:50:28):
Did you you obviously saw this, but just in case
she did this, Like interview with Hoda where she was
talking about how when she worked at Channel four, which
is New York NBC local affiliate, she was editing tapes.

Speaker 3 (01:50:39):
I didn't even know Michelle did that.

Speaker 1 (01:50:40):
And I have like similar experiences with people at NBC,
like when I was a page, Like Hoda was so
nice to me when I worked on the Today Show
at the Olympics, and I was just like, oh, this
is so sweet that like someone's telling her how nice
she was to like the little people who like, quote
unquote don't matter because we were bottom. I was, I mean,
I was a PA runner at the Olympics, you know, like,
you don't have to be nice to me, but she

(01:51:01):
was really nice. But so was Matt Lauer. So you know,
it takes all kinds. Uh, let's get into our web
with sister peg do. Oh my god, I can't believe
I didn't talk about this. We got to edit it
into the beginning, I feel.

Speaker 3 (01:51:15):
No, we'll do it.

Speaker 2 (01:51:16):
This will be for the people that really fucking listen
to the end. Okay, hopefully all of you. Okay. So
I'm talking to this guy that like works within a
spa whatever. So I'm like talking to someone mutuals mutuals,
like it's like a gathering bonding over Simpson stuff. So
then this person walks away that I've had probably a

(01:51:37):
twenty minute great conversation with and they tell me, oh,
do you know that he's punched a woman? And I go,
I didn't know that, and then they go, yeah, he's
also served a year in prison for stabbing someone, and
I go wow.

Speaker 3 (01:51:51):
And then I was thinking.

Speaker 2 (01:51:52):
About like a few weeks prior, I was in a
little tussle with someone and they were like, I know predators.

Speaker 3 (01:51:58):
That's not a predator.

Speaker 2 (01:51:59):
He's not a Like you really don't know, and it's
like I couldn't believe that I had this moment of
just like chatting and enjoying someone's company and being like,
oh my god, you recently punched a woman in the
face and then you did stab someone.

Speaker 3 (01:52:09):
But I do believe in like, you know, rehabilitation and
certain right.

Speaker 1 (01:52:13):
But but he pled he pled out to the punching
and went, yeah, he pled out for the punch.

Speaker 5 (01:52:18):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:52:20):
Wow, did you know he's punched a woman?

Speaker 1 (01:52:22):
I did not.

Speaker 3 (01:52:23):
That is like wow, wow, wow wow. Yeah, it is hard.

Speaker 2 (01:52:30):
It's if it was just the punching or the stabbing
and there was like more, I don't know, it's like, yeah,
to have both them. Like I don't think we could
talk about the Simpsons again. I know, I think I'm
gonna step back from this.

Speaker 1 (01:52:44):
Yes, I'm gonna take a big step back, but wish
you well in your uh, you know, recovery and back
to or what not not.

Speaker 3 (01:52:53):
Yeah, reintroduction into post incarceration. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:52:57):
Yeah, Like I don't want people to go back to prison.
But I'm also like, wow, you punch, you punched a woman.
That's that's bad.

Speaker 2 (01:53:02):
But but then I'm thinking about all these firefighters and
how I want them out, but yeah, a lot of them.
I think it's more robbery, Like you can't be a
firefighter if you assault it like sexual assault.

Speaker 3 (01:53:14):
Yeah, like there was no rape firefighter, Like I was.

Speaker 1 (01:53:17):
Thinking, it wasn't even like violent defenses at all, Like
it wouldn't even be assault or battery or anything like that.
But okay, well, honestly I'd love the update on the
next time you run into this person.

Speaker 3 (01:53:28):
Well it's so funny.

Speaker 2 (01:53:29):
Then this person's like, make sure you tell nobody, and
I was like, for sure, for sure, Yeah on the pod,
Hey listeners, Hey, best guys.

Speaker 1 (01:53:41):
Okay, So for what was mister Peg our weekly segment
where we direct you towards. Usually we direct you towards
like blogs, articles, books, docs about what happened in today's episode,
and today I thought, if you're interested in more information
about this case, you can go check out Thought Crimes,
The Case of the Cannibal Cop. It's on Max right now.

(01:54:04):
But for our what would sister Peg, I would like
to point you guys to trans Lifeline. This is obviously
not involved with the episode directly, but very involved in
what we talked about in the intro and outro that
just you know, Trump kicked off his presidency by declaring
that there are only two genders, and I think it's
a great time to support trans and non binary people

(01:54:24):
in need. The trans Lifeline is a nonprofit organization offering direct,
emotional and financial support to trans people in crisis, for
the trans community, by the trans community. So if you
want more info on that or to donate, you can
go to trans Lifeline dot org. As always linked in
our show notes and linked in our stories the day

(01:54:45):
this episode comes out and saved in our WWSPD highlights
on our Instagram, which is that s Messed Up Pod.
Next week we will be doing a fan favorite I
would say, a wig to last a lifetime the episode
Manic Season five, Episode two.

Speaker 2 (01:55:00):
See you next week. Thanks for listening to our podcast.
We really appreciate it. Yes, love you guys, See you
next week.

Speaker 3 (01:55:06):
Bye.

Speaker 2 (01:55:16):
That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (01:55:18):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
it That's messed uppod at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:55:26):
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.

Speaker 1 (01:55:35):
As always, please see our show notes for sources and
more information.

Speaker 2 (01:55:39):
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.

Speaker 1 (01:55:45):
Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner,
and to.

Speaker 2 (01:55:49):
Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews
for our artwork.

Speaker 1 (01:55:53):
Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff,
Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media don the
time

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Kara Klenk

Liza Treyger

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