Underbelly w/ Charlotte Ray Rosenberg

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
These are our stories.

Speaker 4 (00:10):
Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up, a
SVU podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
I'm Kara Klank and I'm Lisa Traeger. We talk SVU
True crime. We have guests. I would say we're kind
of like James Lipton towards the end of the pod,
really doing a deep dive.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
When you get to heaven. What would you like to
hear God say? Wait, you know what we should talk about.
Is it finally happened. Law and Order SVU finally hired
a female showrunner.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Yeah. Yeah, we posted this on our Instagra.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
I know at this point it's like a couple weeks
later that we haven't talked about it on the actual pod.
We posted on our Instagram like the day after we
found out. But it's exciting because not only is she
like a random female showrunner, she just was on like
the early seasons, Like she worked on seasons three, four, five, six, seven,
Like she's running.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Get to the old air.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Okay, Yeah, she's from the Golden Age baby, and I
kind of love that, and you know, people love she's queer.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
People are loving that. I just think it's like it's time.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
You know, we've had please, yes, so many men running
the show, and they've you know, they've given us some
glorious stuff. But let's get Let's get a lady at
the helm and no more most powerful lifeguards anymore. You know,
let's get some Let's go back to like the days
of just random shit happening to just New Yorkers. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(01:51):
that's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
We're a Housewives episode, for the love of god. Why
won't they do it? Maybe it's because it's an NBC
universal thing.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Right, Like what I mean, what would happen? Like one
housewife kills another one?

Speaker 3 (02:07):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
No, it would be kind of I bet it would
be like an Erica and Tom and then she'd be like,
I've been being abused. I didn't do any of it
and I was forced to do it. Would be maybe
the twist I'm seeing. Yeah, or gentshaw Than is like, well,
I'll tell you what if you let me, if you
let please plead me out, I'll let you know. The
guy in charge and he's like a trafficker or something.

(02:31):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
For being so demanding, I should have better ideas.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Judge Josh just just doing her thing, jun John just
doing elder abuse.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
And then they get her or there's like a twist
where they go to some like slums and they realize
the Chase own it, and that's how they get caught
with all of their stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
They go to they go to Bougie Kids and they
find out that all the kids have been modeling, and
then they haven't signed any of the contracts and they're
being overworked.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Wait, did have you seen the trailer for the Next Generation?

Speaker 4 (03:02):
No?

Speaker 3 (03:03):
I saw the just the instagram.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
I'm excited. It looks fun.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
It's just like basically a reality show of young people
living in New York.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah, but four of them are housewife like children. I
saw his mare and his son. Who else is it?

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Gia Teresa's daughter okay, and then Riley Candy's daughter.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Okay. Her name's Riley, right, Yeah, yeah, her name's Riley.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
But Riley never speaks.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
So I'm excited to see how this Riley literally is
the most monotone person I've ever seen on television.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
So we'll see what happens.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
And then ari Arianna Arianna Beerman. Yeah, so Kim Kim
Kim's Olia's daughter. Yeah, and she seems kind of funny.
But you know, I just really I have a tough
time with like young young people getting plastic surgery and yeah,
like I'm trying to think of Like I saw the

(03:54):
Instagram and I didn't recognize all those faces, do you
know what I mean? I only recognized Brooks like Ariana's
front and center in the photo, and I did not
recognize her.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well, well, I also just see her as like a
child's with pigtails for cheerleading. You know. So I haven't
thought about her in a while, but I'm excited and
I will be watching. Yeah, but it is all the
mouse monotone kids, because brooksmarks is also monotone.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
Gotcha.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
I feel like I gotta watch the trailer. I haven't
watched it. But it's silly.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
I mean, it's like young twenty rich Yeah, people living
in New York. I'm excited.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
It's just it's gonna be some summer fun. Nuts for sure.

Speaker 4 (04:34):
Love it.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah, it's so fast. Oh wait did you see You
probably did?

Speaker 1 (04:40):
But like, uh, I see was in some Adidas commercial
where the first thing he says is that's messed up.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Okay, I saw, well we posted about it on the
this thing, so I saw that, but uh, wait, what's
going on?

Speaker 3 (04:53):
I mean within a month.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, I'm I wonder if he's like, hey, I'm doing
an ad you gotta put this in.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
It had just been like a few years since he'd
even said it on the show, Like I know, more
than a few. I think it's been a long time.
They like purposely stopped. I mean, sure, are they communicating
with us? Yeah, I don't know what you want for
he subconsciously telling he's uh yeah, he's telepathically telling us
he wants to be on the pod.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Oh so I did do the Petting Zoos stand up show?
Oh yes, tell us? How was that? It was amazing?
So I got there and I no one had picked chinchilla.

Speaker 5 (05:30):
Well.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
I walked in into this one comic had two snakes
on her body, so that was tough for me to
be around. But I got to meet a beard a
dragon and hold him and his her I apologize. Her
name was Sydney, and then I got to have like
a parrot on me and his name was Signior and
that was exciting. But then for the show there was
also like a weird creepy lizard, the snakes, a tortoise,

(05:54):
and a dove. But I did go with the chinchillas
so soft, right, softer than you could ever imagine. But
the thing is so the grifter fashion stylists that fucked
me over before my special. He had a chinchilla and
when Sydney came with me, she was like, that's a
dehydrated chinchilla. That's not a good life for a chinchilla.

(06:16):
This is fucked up because she had seen chinchillas. I
have never and now meeting these really well taken care
of chinchillas, I can attest that his chinchilla was not
well taking care of her, groomed or anything like that.
These So it was spot and snowball and you have
to like hold your arms like a shelf, but they
don't sit still, so like they are running on my

(06:37):
body as I'm doing Why yeah, And I'm like try
and they're just adorable. And then one nibbled on me
a little, but it was like communicative to be like
I'm too hot. So then the other one came out,
so I got to like work with both of them,
which was fun. Oh my god, Oh my god, god's
really fun.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
So cute.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, I have something to bring up actually, and then
and I hope I'm scared that who I'm about to
talk about listens, But I don't care. Did I already
talk about this this group dinner? Did I talk about
this group dinner? I went to a group Okay, I
went to a group dinner. And it's one of those
places with like a lazy Susan in the middle of

(07:18):
the table. So all the food's on the table and
there's a communal dish of like I wouldn't have eaten it.
But let's say, like a bushroom a long mushroom salad,
like stringy kind of mushroom noodles. So one of the
people at the dinner takes their chopsticks, it takes the
commutal bowl of the mushroom salad, stands over everything, starts

(07:41):
picking it up, puts it in their mouth, bites it
and let let's the bit didn't drop off and just
puts it And that was that.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
What the fuck are you doing?

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (07:56):
What are you doing?

Speaker 6 (07:58):
Did anybody say anything?

Speaker 1 (07:59):
I was?

Speaker 2 (08:00):
I was the last minute and these are not my people.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Oh you're not not not your circus, not your monkeys.
That's fucking crazy. I'm just talking about it on that
that's so I've never seen anything like that's so crazy. Yeah,
oh my god, Ill, that's really feld in a big
group dinner.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Oh yuck, yuck, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
I can't eat anything today, so this dinner talk is
making me hungry.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
I am.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
I'm prepping for a colonoscopy tomorrow, and wow, it's not
gonna be fun day for me.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
I have to I'm not getting knocked out on drugs
as fun Tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
I get knocked out on the drugs today.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
I have to literally drink a full gate, like four
gallons of a potion that's gonna make me die.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
So I'm not.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Really that pumped. But I also can't eat anything all day,
so I'm gonna feel light as a feather tomorrow. We're
in the time machine a little bit. This episode's coming
out before after right after the finale of drag Races,
so if you watch drag Race, you already know who wins.
But I'm still shook but happy with how the last

(09:07):
elimination went. I was done. I was done with Susie too.
I needed her to I needed her to Charleston right
off the stage.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
I was done.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
I liked her.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
I thought she was talented, she was good at some
of the first stuff, but like, would I go pay
money to go see a Susie two show?

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Not really? No, And you know, she's young, and I
think she's like seeing her errors, like I think watching
it the interviews and stuff I've seen, and she seems
pretty like self aware of I just have, but I
just it really irks me. Sasha Valor did this too.
I just hate queens who think they are smarter and

(09:43):
better than other queens because they're pretentious. Yeah, none of
you are smarter and more cerebral than like a lot
of these fucking queens. So I don't like that attitude
of like, what's your biggest flow going? I'm too unique,
I'm too smart. I don't want to be too smart
for these peasants, Like you're not smarter than RuPaul, no
matter how you whatever affectation you want to speak with,

(10:07):
right and smart's.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Come in various different ways, Like there's different your references.
Just because you have references to things doesn't make you
the smartest person you know.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
No, And it's also your willingness to like grow, change,
like take notes like she does it.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
She could take a note to save her life. I know,
And but I was surprised.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
I have not seen on the show in a very
long time, and I'm trying to even struggle to think
of when there has been somebody who's been doing so
so so well, and then at right before the finale
they get cut, Like I haven't seen that in a while.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, you're right, you know, like someone who has that
many wins.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
And is like but then it's like you self are
saying that you're dominating this competition, like.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Come on, girl, Like well no, and you know, like
Bob and Bunett I feel or like whatever.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
YouTube by watch it was.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Like everyone keeps being like, oh my god, Susie's the
front runner, and it's like Anna nervous.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
Anya is the front runner.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
I want viar, but it's like she's it's not even
our opinion. She's won four or five challenges, she's at
the top. She only lipsticked once, and like it was yeah,
Naomi Small's had a really good opinion on that. On
your Race Chaser, she was like, you used to have

(11:29):
to make your twins outfit. Now people just bring something,
you know, the coats like, and they help bring it.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, it works.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
And it's like they focus too much on that because
even without the coat, like those dresses that aren't, it's
like such a detachment from everything else she's done, which
is like really like black culture vibes. So like, yeah,
while you're while the twin, But I guess you don't
know who you're gonna be making over.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
I don't know. I just I liked it that you
have you used to have to make.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Those and that she said yeah to better creativity instead
of like this will work.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
I also think Jewels Sparkles has kind of come from
behind yeap o fun.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
She had an air of fun. She was good and competitive,
but didn't take it like seriously. It's it's been fun.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
And I don't think I went back into my into
the thing. I was googling last night. I was like,
I don't know if a Latina has ever won Wow,
so Jewels could be up there too.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
I don't think Sam will win.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
And Sam did also have outerwear and did lose the
lip sync for me, so I don't know.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
I yeah, that was crazy.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
I'm happy to see Susie go Sam is more entertaining
to watch for me. Yeah, but if we're talking like
Susie had a better runway had a better lipsync, I.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Do kind of feel like it's between I do like
Lexi a lot, but I sort of feel like it's
between uh Anya and Jewels.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
For the family loses, it's her fault, like it's oddious
to lose. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll see what happens. But
she's already one. Hopefully she goes for being a cook,
so being you know, a performer, full time performer.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, I've got to watch.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
I'm gonna have to watch just on TV because apparently
Sarah Sota, Florida does not have a gay scene. Everyone's
telling me I got to drive to Tampa or Saint
Pete Beach and I simply don't have time to do that.
But I will be watching, and I can't wait to
see what happens.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah, good TV, Good TV. You know, I'm soaking it
all in until the drought of the summer.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
All right, should we get started? I think so let's
kick it off. You guys know what's up that's messed up.
Live has all of the links that you need. Lisa's
tour dates merch. You know, you could leave us a
review whatever you feel like doing. All of our promo
codes are there. If you're in the market for some
shit and you want to use our promo codes, go

(14:00):
for it.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
Let's go.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Okay, we are doing the episode Underbelly from season eight.
It's episode seven. This baby came out in two thousand
and six. This is an episode that I've seen, like,
it's just one of the ones I think of is
I've seen the most times, Like I've seen it so
many times, and this like the girl in it, like everybody,

(14:27):
and I'm like, oh, yeah, Like I don't know. It's
just I wouldn't say it's like a favorite or anything
because it's obviously very dark, but I've just seen it
a lot, so I knew.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
And not to give it much away, it's the tattoos.
Like the tattoo is definitely the calling card of this episode,
but I don't seen it in forever.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
Are these storylines make me sad? I know, I know
it's awful, but you know, but I do.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Love the time too, of just a night A nice
one word episode title.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yes, Underbelly the underbelly of the Beasts. So this episode
starts it's nighttime where probably like on the west Side
Highway area where boats are, but we could be on
these river too. I guess a bunch of drunk teens
are getting off a boat. It's probably like their prom
or something or homecoming, I don't know. They are wearing

(15:21):
suits or tuxedos. And one guy's like that party sucked,
and the other guy's like the party ruled. And the
pessimist is like pissed that he didn't get laid, and
the optimist is like, Becky Morgan's parents are an aspens,
so there's still time. And then the other guy's like
sick because all he cares about is getting laid. So
then he goes to piss off the dock and into
the river when uh, oh, there is a floating dead

(15:44):
body there. So not exactly gonna get you excited to
hook up later that night that you found a dead
body after your school dance. So we cut to the
body out of the water now with a sarcastic comment
from Stabler overlaid, where he's like, oh, did they really
did a number on this girl?

Speaker 3 (16:01):
And this girl is fourteen years old?

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Tops Melinda says cause of death is the old BFT
blunt force trauma.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Beck is with Stabler. I forgot it's a beckup.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
I it just like it sucks because do I love
Connie Nielsen Shore the moment I see this bitch, I'm pissed.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
I'm like, Matt, Yeah, And this is the episod.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
This is like an episode of Complicated Feelings.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
Does a good job.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
I just like I the hate I have for Beck
is insane. I know.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
I feel like that's probably why I don't watch this episode.
To be honest, I that's true. I mean, I it's funny.
I think of this as like an old school episode
I guess season eight, but like, yeah, it is a
Beck but.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah it's wild.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
And she asks like, oh, did the girl fall off
the boat? But Melinda's like, well, she's been in the
river at least two weeks. The cold water has kept
her like very preserved, like she has not decomposed a
lot depending on the current. We just did an episode
about currents and bodies being found in water. But depending
on the current, she could have really been dumped anywhere

(17:09):
in the Five boroughs because if she's been floating around
for two weeks, like you know, it's sort of wild
that nobody would have seen her. There's a lot of boats,
there's people. I mean, I don't know, it's it's crazy.
But Melinda comments, another one raped, beaten and thrown away
like garbage. And they're like, wait, Melinda, are you doing
our job for us? Like is this a pattern? And
she's like, yeah, check out this tattoo on her lower back.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
It's a dog paprint. It's very blues clues.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
And she's the third rape homicide victim with that tattoo
in six months. The other two they're like, why have
we heard about this? And it's because the other two
were not in Manhattan. Sandra Garner sixteen, a runaway from Wichitah,
was jumped dumped in a junkyard in the South Bronx.
And then another victim is still unidentified. Her body was
found in the weeds by Newtown Creek, which I had

(17:56):
to google and it like runs along the Brooklyn Queen's border.
And the autopsies for those victims showed a ton of brutality,
multiple skull fractures, but no weapon in print. So whoever
did this did it with their fists. Melinda says that
tattoo is a death sentence, and then close up on
Stabler looking affected, close up on Beck looking affected and credits. Okay,

(18:20):
these two are concerned. Back at the precinct, Ben tells
them that the tattoo is not gang inc I mean,
I duh, I don't think any gang is Like get
a puppy pap print, you know, and no one with
that tattoo has been arrested. Munch thinks Munch with like
maybe the dumbest Munch take of all time goes. It

(18:40):
could be something totally vanilla, like they like Snoopy or
they want to go to Yale, Like, I don't think
they're a detective. Yeah, you think that many fourteen year
old girls are, like it's Yale for me.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
Put it on a tramp stamp, like so crazy.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
I think he just wants to show up that he
like knows that Yale are bulldogs and he knows like
their fight song. Anyway, Finn suggests maybe a tattoo artist
could recognize the style. Shockingly, Beck has a tattoo hookup.
She's like, we should talk to Miguel Alvarez. He does
great work. Then Beck and Stabler have this flirty moment
where he's like begging to see her tattoo and she

(19:14):
won't show it, and he's like, I'll show you mine,
and he's like, it's like, yeah, stabler, everyone and their
mom has seen like your Jesus on the Cross tats,
Like your tats are out there, and Beck's like, it
wouldn't be a fair trade.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
So maybe it's in a sexy place.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
But now we're talking to Miguel and we're at his
studio and he's like, this is my work, referencing.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
This woman who's getting a full back.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
Piece of a tiger on her back, and he's like insulted.
He's like, you know, if you show me the Mona Lisa,
I can tell you it's Da Vinci.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
But like you're asking if you drew a stick figure.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
This story line, this little side quest is the craziest
thing ever. It's one of the worst tattoos ever, the
most simple. And they are going that tiger that they
walk in on that's like a multi day it was.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
It's like, ah, this was so silly to me.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
This was a Philly is When they go, I have
a friend at this exact department that owes me a favor,
you know, I just write it bothers me.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
And he's like this guy's like insulted. He's like, anyone
could do this, dippy little pot print, Like what the
fuck are you talking about? And then he's like They're
like they see a sign or something that says like,
you know, must provide ID, and they're like, oh, do
you ever tattoo anyone underage? And he's like again, I'm
a fucking artist, like I don't do that. I get ID,
I keep it on file. But he of course does

(20:32):
know of this one guy in Brooklyn. He knows his
name exactly. It's Lenny Culp. He's an ex con who
learned how to tattoo in prison and he can't get
a license because of his record. So they go pay
Lenny a visit and he's tattooing a very young looking
kid and Lenny shows that this is like.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
A Bart Simpson moment. This is from early Simpsons.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
I can't believe they did this, And I wonder if
there was a Simpsons.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Why does Bart get a tattoo and he has he
fakes a note.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
No, it's not about the note, it's like the heart
and it's Emma like mo, well he has moth and
mother isn't finished.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
When Marge grabs him. It's it ends up being a
heart that says.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Moth, and they have to spend like their savings getting
it removed. But this it was supposed to be mom,
and they made him go home at moh gotcha?

Speaker 3 (21:15):
Oh my god, that like straight out of Assassins.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Well, I mean I one time added my name to
a friend's mom's note to get a second ear piercing.
So I've never actually forged the note, but I've put
my name in and pretended I was someone's sister. I
let that whole close up very quickly. It was all
for not But Lenny is like, yeah, here's the boy's note,
and Stabler's like, uh, Dicky did a better job forging

(21:40):
my signature when he was eight, so this is actually
pathetic that you would accept this. The kid is yeah,
like in the middle of getting an old timey sailor
tattoo that says mom, they interrupt, like Lisa said, and
now he has to get lost with his mow tattoo.
So they slap down a picture of the dead girls
and they tell Lenny keep in mind, you just tattoo
a minor, which is illegal and a parole violation, and

(22:02):
he's like Okay, I.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
Did all their tattoos.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
It's just funny to me that this professional man in
Manhattan knew exactly who in Brooklyn would do this, Like
it's a I mean, I know, it's a TV show.
We got to get from A to B, but it's
like wild. He's like, all right, I did them, but
they told me they were eighteen. They told me they
were over eighteen. They said they were college cheerleaders. And
then he has a picture of them that I guess
what they sent him after they got the tattoos, or

(22:27):
he took it, I don't know, but it's a picture
of the three girls like kind of up against a fence.
They're turned around showing their tattoos, which are all in
the lower back tramp stamp area, and the girl that
they just pulled out of the river is in the
photo and she's wearing a shirt that says Saint Ambrose.
So obviously Stabler probably knows exactly where that is because
it's a Catholic school. And they zoom straight to figuring

(22:50):
out who this girl is, and her name is Chantal,
and they're watching a whole movie of Chantal cheering, and
her foster mom is watching the video showing it to them,
crying to about how much Chantal loves Saint Ambrose, and
Stabler is shocked that this foster mom was paying Catholic
school tuition, but she's like, I wanted her to have
every advantage. That's a very wonderful foster parent because you know,

(23:11):
they get money, but I don't think of many of
them as providing private school educations. But right before tryouts,
they were like, oh, did she make the team? And
she's like, well, right before tryouts, Acs sent her back
to quote what she says that no good mother of hers,
and she explains that Chantal's birth mom was a crack
addict she had when Chantal was a baby, she was

(23:34):
taken away. She came to this woman in foster care
at age eight, and this woman wanted to adopt her,
so she from eight to fourteen, she's with this woman.
I would have assumed she could have adopted her quicker
than that, but she Acs said, then at oh, her
mom cleaned up and wanted her back, and the foster
mom thinks whatever, she just wants the welfare check or

(23:55):
like the check for you know, having more dependence.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Like well, because on this podcast, we do take a
stance that reuniting is the top goal, but not when
you meet this bitch, not when.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
I was gonna say that exact same thing, Like.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
This is one of the worst. This is one of
the Yeah, I mean I want to strangle this woman.
And I don't know how the detectives did because the
kids were probably there. I'm like, I don't know how
they didn't try to fuck with her.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, Like I'm a my work in cos sets like
we always are are working towards reunification. This woman would
not have passed a like a check, I don't think,
but maybe she was, you know, faking it to try
to get her back. And it's really sad this story,
Like this poor foster mom is like I wanted to
fight with her, but my lawyer basically told me, like
I it was no use, like the bio parents have rights,

(24:42):
like there was nothing I could do. So I think
that's like a heartbreaking part of being a foster parent.
But this woman seems like an exceptional foster parent and
I hope she gets to adopt someone. So now they're
walking and talking with Ronda, who is Sean Tal's biological mom.
She is pushing a baby stroller and she's got another
kid who's on a scooter. She is bad mouthing Chantal, who,

(25:04):
by the way, they just told her is dead and going.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
She was trouble.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
I told her she told her school that my boyfriend
was touching on her and ACS wanted to kick wanted
me to kick him out, and I wasn't going to
kick him out, and like, it's so crazy, how bad
this woman is. The story gets interrupted by Stabler, who
heroically saves the song, and as he's about to scoot
into traffic, the mom doesn't even flinch, like they specifically
go to her reaction and she's like, what's up, Like

(25:29):
did something happen? And then she tells them, yeah, they
wanted me to kick my boyfriend out, and I was like,
no way, So I told ACS to just take Chantal
again instead of kicking her boyfriend out, and which is crazy,
and I do. I would say though, that like Akasa
or some kind of social worker would look into putting

(25:51):
her back with her original foster mom who loved her
so much. If this is what's happening, if she's sending
her back to ACS, it's like, okay, go back to
this good home that you have. But Unfortunately, Chantal goes
to a group home and then she asks if that
place help her get killed, you think I got a
lawsuit on my hands. And Beck is disgusted with this
woman and she's like, that's what you want. All you

(26:13):
care about is making a dime off your dead daughter,
and Ronda goes, bitch, get out of my face, and
it's a lot. Stabler's like, everybody needs to chill out,
and then he asks the name of the home she tells.
Ronda tells them that it's Broder House on Fountain Avenue,
and Stabler and Beck walk away and he's like, look,
I know you want a smack her, but it's not
worth it. And that's like I just can't believe they're

(26:34):
just walking away, Like I just can't believe, like this,
nothing's going to happen to this woman.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
But you know, what are you gonna do? You can't
win them all.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
At the group home, there is a man telling them
that Chantel vayner a wald a few weeks after she
got there, which is you know, a military term absent
without leaving. But it's like anytime kids leave their group homes,
it's a walling. They can be gone for four hours.
They can be gone for five weeks, you know, and
a lot of time that like I've talked about this before,

(27:04):
but a lot of times that's what adds to like
the nickmic when they have like the like the number
of kids who are quote unquote missing or exploited. A
lot of times it's just kids that one went a wall.
It's like a kid is like I don't want to
go to school, I'm gonna go to the park for
a few hours. They get reported missing, and that goes
into statistics of missing children, even though many times they
come home or you know, so it's just like you know,

(27:25):
an interesting Definitely, there are still tons of kids that
are missing all the time, but a lot of times
those numbers are inflated from just kids in the system
who are not where they're supposed to be at one
given time. And so beck is pissed at this group
home leader guy and she's like, you didn't even go
look for her, And he's like, we don't have the
manpower to do that, which they don't. I have worked

(27:47):
with several group group homes, like they have such small staffs,
like they cannot go find anyone who goes who leaves.
He explains, hundreds of these girls take off. We file
the missing persons report, and we sent a registered letter
to the family, and Stabler goes, well, the mom never
got it, and he's like, well, she probably threw it
away with her unpaid bills. And he's probably not wrong.
This woman is not checking the mail. I don't think

(28:08):
beck is giving this guy more shit going. This girl
needed your help and now she's dead. And he's like, well,
most of them run away to be with a boyfriend, Like,
why don't you ask some of the other girls that
are here. So now we're popping around to a bunch
of different convos with these girls. One girl is telling
Stabler like, you know, guys hang around the group home
and then we kick it outside. And then Stabler goes,

(28:29):
chantale ever kick it with anyone? And casey, if we can,
I would love to include that is a quote because
the way he says it is so funny.

Speaker 6 (28:35):
You know how it is?

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Why don't you tell me how it is?

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Boys come by, we kick it outside, Chantelle ever kick
it with anyone? You know, he's trying to be a
hip Stabler and I always enjoy that her and this
other girl are telling them about Victor. He's this guy
with a tricked out suv. He'd buy Chantelle chips and soda.
Another girl is continuing the story. He's like, oh, yeah,
he wanted her to run off with him. He said
he'd buy her anything she wanted, clothes, jewelry, but she

(28:59):
told Chantale to trust him because they're all the same.
And Beck goes boys and the girl goes pimps, like hello,
open your eyes, like this is not like a boy
with a full suv in New York City who's offering
to buy you jewelry clothes, And she goes Chantale ran
off to be his hoe, So we're not this is
not looking like a great situation. Back at the precinct

(29:25):
late at night and Beck is just there watching the
Chantal cheerleading video over it much.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
I guess it's not a Snoopy support group.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, and like, but they're definitely trying to always get
it on our heads that like this job is too
much for Beck, like she can't. She takes every case
so fucking personally, and this is her second to last episode.
But Beck's like, I just can't sleep right now, knowing
that some like child sex workers get about to get

(29:53):
beaten to death by a psycho John and Stablers are like, well,
like this will help you sleep.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
Do you know how many Sean tall's there are?

Speaker 1 (30:01):
And like she's like we should just get out there,
we should go, like go figure it out. And Stable's like,
where where should we go? Did you check with Vice
about where the baby hooker stroll? He asks her, and
he's like, well, I did the legwork, so I know
where they are. And the main area for like the
younger sex workers is East New York, which is a
neighborhood in Brooklyn. It's kind of out by JFK, like
where you rent a car Howard Beach. And he says,

(30:23):
I talked to Vice and we set up a sting
for tomorrow night. So he's done everything that you know,
because he's been in this unit for so long and whatever.
And then he tells Danny like you can't get over
involved in these cases, like every single one of them
will break your heart. And then she's like, can we
please go tonight and Stabler's like, of course, you're hot,
and I'm um horny for you. So they go and
now they're sitting in a dark van watching like young

(30:46):
teen girls try to like get dates with John's and
Stabler of course makes a comment, They're like my daughter's age,
you know, everything has to go back to his daughters.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
And Beck is like itching.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
To get out of the car and question these girls,
but Stabler is like hold tight, like you gotta find
the killer. But she's like a dumb bitch who always
jumps the gun. So she starts to get out, and
Stabler alerts with other units, and I guess the whole
sting is just he moved it up to.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Tonight because that's what Beck wanted.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
I thought maybe they were just going off to do
their own thing, but no, it's a whole group of
people vices.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
There.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
A bunch of cop callers roll up on these girls,
their sirens blazing. They make all the girls stand up
against the wall. They flash them pictures of the tattoo
girls from the photos, and none of them are saying
anything like none of them Nope, sorry, don't know her,
don't know her. And then Beck makes them all turn
around and starts lifting up all their shirts and checking

(31:35):
for their lower blues clues tattoos, and they find one
on this young girl and she steps out of line
and they're like, what's your name, and she's like passion,
which I think is like such a is so funny,
and then that tells her, yeah, like come on, Beck
tells her, why don't you cut the shit and she's like, okay,
my name's Belinda Holt and she says she doesn't know

(31:59):
the girls in the picture and Stabler's like, oh really,
because they have that same tattoo you have and now
they're all dead and she's like, no, they're not dead.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
They got they got adopted.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
So now we've got Belinda in I don't even know
if we're in wood room blinds because there are no
lights on, like it is simply the lights are turned off.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
It's the darkest room of all time.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
There's like a flashlight on this girl practically, and she's
arguing with them about the girls being dead, and they're like,
the girls are dead and she's like, you cops are
so dumb and you're lying to me. And Beck's like, okay, cool, fine,
you want to see the autopsy photos. So you know,
she's done being sensitive to this girl at all, even
though ten minutes ago she was like I can't sleep
knowing these baby sex workers, and now she's like, you
want to see your dead friends and she slaps the

(32:38):
photos on the ground on the table. She won't even
look at them. Belinda's like, I only want to talk
to Victor. He's my boyfriend. I want to talk to Victor.
And they're like, oh, the guy who pimps you out,
and she's like, he doesn't make me do anything.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
I love him and.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
We're getting married when I'm old enough. Yikes. It's sad.
But she, you know, she's in another episode. I'm mis understanding.
She comes back. She's just like, I don't know, I
love Belinda. Wait when she comes back, it's she's Belinda again. No, no,
just like this girl's face. But no, her name is

(33:12):
Abby Stewart. In the next one, Oh okay, okay, okay.
I was like, but she takes to stand. It's like
another big episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So she looks
at the photo finally and names all the girls. She's like,
this is Amber. Her name was Sandra but Victor changed it.
And then she's like this is Chantal and then Monique,
and she's like, we're sisters. So we finally have Monique identified.

(33:35):
We knew about Sandra, but now we know that her
name on the street was Amber, and she's like, they
all got adopted by this rich guy and it's just
like my favorite movie, Pretty Woman.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
She's like, I've watched the DVD so many times.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
It's like, wow, I never really thought that Pretty Woman
was going to be like the kind of movie that
influenced a younger generation to want what's in that movie?

Speaker 5 (33:58):
You know?

Speaker 3 (33:59):
But there we are, there we have it.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
I'm like, it doesn't look great when George from Seinfeld
is trying to attack her, but anyway, she goes, yeah,
this rich guy comes and he picks a girl and
if he likes Sree takes her away to live with him.
I dated him once, but he didn't pick me. And
Stabler asks, oh, well does this guy hit you and
she goes, well, he spanked me, but like a lot
of guys are into that. And then suddenly Beck that

(34:24):
softens Beck up. She's like, I'm gonna give her my jacket.
So she gives Belinda her jacket and asks for more
details on the Richard Gear character, and she's like, you know,
he's old and white but still kind of cute. And
Amber looked in his wall at once and said that
his name is Blake and he drives a big black
Mercedes Benz sub. When Chantal got adopted, Victor said she

(34:45):
was living on Fifth Avenue. So details, details, details, Finn
is doing the DMV deep dive. Okay, nineteen white guys
named Blake as either their first or the last name
with Mercedes SUVs. Four of them are on Fifth Avenue,
and one of them has a ha bit of beating
on women. We got Blake Peters, forty five years old
old man. As she described him, she's like ew nasty,

(35:09):
old white dying man, forty five and he is a
managing one.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
That's like a I think that's like an interesting creative
choice because it shows how fucking young she is. Yes, yes, absolutely,
but she thinks that's like an ancient old man.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
And she she.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
Looks fifteen to me.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
I mean she's so young looking, this girl, like they
got the perfect actress for this.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
She just has like a baby face.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
So he's a managing partner at a white shoe law firm,
this guy, Blake Peters, and he has a bunch of
domestic violence complaints from his ex wife, but they were
all dismissed with anger management courses or whatever. And Finn
Goes always knew those were a croc. It's like, thank you, finn.
I don't think anger management maybe the first time. If
there's multiple, like domestic violence things, you have to go

(35:55):
to jail for a little bit.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
Sorry.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
It's also annoying because, and we've mentioned this before, it's
like I wonder why they'll get violent at work?

Speaker 3 (36:03):
Yeah, you know friends.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Yeah, it's like weird that it's such a you know,
you need a it's anger management. Yet you know how
to manage it perfectly at your home, right, at your job.
You never punch a judge. You're a lawyer.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
You never punch a judge in the face. Right, But
a woman, no problem. Your wife got it. So they
pull up a bunch of articles on this guy. He
likes tennis, polo, water sports, Like, we get it. He's
rich and he's remarried from the wife that he used
to beat and now his new wife looks barely legal,
they say. So they shot to the apartment and this

(36:39):
woman answers the door and she's like, did something happen
to Blake? And then they feed her some bullshit like oh,
we need to talk to him, and like it's about
a client. It's a major client, so we need you
to be discreet whatever, and she's like whatever, it's always something.
He's at the office like she seems like she is.
There's trouble in paradise there. She does not like this marriage,
I don't think so. When they go to the law firm,

(37:00):
there's an associate there. He's like a young, cute black guy,
and he's like, you got to be kidding me. The
partners being here right now, they're all out of here
by happy hour. And then Finn tries to talk to
this guy like black man, a black man and calls
him brother, but he does not give a shit, and
he goes, if I don't get my job done, I'm
on the streets, sorry, brother, and Munch goes, guess the
only color he cares about is green. So I would

(37:23):
say nine times out of ten it works when Finn
is like just like relating to a guy like listen,
I'm not here to jam you up on the weed.
I'm not here to jam you up about your gun charge,
Like I just want to know where the girl is,
you know.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
So, but this time he struck out.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
This white shoe associate not having it, does not want
to bond with Finn his loss.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Finn calls Stabler and is like, yo, we're struck striking
out at his work, Like we don't know where this
guy is. Beck looks up his credit card and is like,
all right, well let's find out where he's been charging.
So now we're at the Wallace Inn where mister Peters
checked in two hours ago, and the guy working at
the hotel is like, oh yeah with missus Peters, very
pretty and very young, and the employee is really nervous

(38:06):
to let them into the room until Stabler's like, well,
you know, I could shut this whole place down for prostitution,
so whatever you want to do. And the guy's like okay,
here's like literally the keys to the entire place. And
the guy tells Peters knock knock, knock, like you have
to come out, sir, there's a problem with your card.
And then the guy opens the door and he's like
just gonna throw money at the cash at the guy.
Stabler grabs him, and then as Beck mirandizes him, she

(38:28):
looks at the young girl who's in the room on
the bed like frantically buttoning her shirt and like getting
getting dressed. Okay, And so now we're walking into the
precinct with this girl, and she's telling Beck, like, am
your exner?

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Right? Yes?

Speaker 1 (38:41):
She is an the episode, she's Candy, but she's played
by Constance Wu and this is one of her first gigs.
You know, it's twenty, it's two thousand and six. She
this is like literally at the bottom of her IMDb
so's I don't.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Know, it's just because I know when I think about
guest stars, her face doesn't come to my brain.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
I don't really think of her as like an SVU moment,
but a fun one.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah, yeah, a fun stuff role. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
And I can't really tell it's a confusing role because
she's saying, I'm nineteen. I swear I go to Manhattan Tech.
I work at a restaurant and that's where I met Blake.
She's like, I saw he had a wedding ring on,
but I wanted to party. It's no big deal. And
Beck's like it was to the girls he killed. So
that's the last time we see Candy. I don't know

(39:33):
if she's actually nineteen because she shows an ID and
it's kind of ballsy to show the cops of fake ID,
but like, she shows an ID and like, I think
the bottom line is she is nineteen, but she is
doing sex work, and.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
So she also is like in school and has another
day job, like it seems like she's doing it all.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yeah, yeah, she's really she's really trying to get through
Manhattan Tech, you know. But now we cut to Blake
telling Stabler I didn't kill anyone, and they're like, oh,
what's up with your knuckles, like because they had said,
like Melinda had said earlier, like look for this guy
to have like really fucked up knuckles because he's beating
these girls to death, like with his fists. So the

(40:11):
guy goes, well, no, I do a lot of work
on my car. I've got a seventy two Ferrari Daytona spider,
and nobody touches my baby but me, I mean, I
hate this man.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
But Stabler starts laying into.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Him on like like oh, yeah, you just pick up
underage sex workers and then you beat the shit out
of them or whatever. And he's like, no, I don't
hurt these girls and they love it, and Stabler's like, yeah,
you're paying them, dumb ass. They're gonna say that they
love whatever you want them to say. And then Stabler
shows Peter's the autopsy pictures and he's painting the pictures
Stabler style, like this is what you do. You use

(40:44):
them and then you beat them and throw them away.
And then the guy starts gagging and throws up in
the trash. And this is like a classic perp throwing
up scene that I always remember for some reason, Like
he sees the photos of the girls and he's like,
oh god, and he starts throwing up. He's like, I
didn't all those girls. I swear I wanted to help
get them off the street. I told Amber I wanted
to help her, but Victor threatened to beat my ass

(41:06):
if I ever snatch one of his girls again. So now, basically,
if you want to fool Benson and Stabler or anybody
in this precinc you have to throw up when they
accuse you of something, Like if you throw up, they're
always like, I don't know, I don't think this.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Guy did any puked.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
You know, they never think like if you piss your
pants or you puke, they think you're innocent.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
So who should walk in?

Speaker 1 (41:26):
While Stabler is talking to Peters, but Benson comes strolling
into the precinct. She looks beautiful scub bangs and she
finds Danny Beck sitting at her desk right across from Stabler,
and she's like, I'm looking for Detective Stabler. And Beck's like,
he's an interrogation. Maybe I can help you. I'm his partner,
Danny Beck. It's it's interesting to be that Beck wouldn't

(41:49):
know like what live looks like, like there's no pictures.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
Of her anywhere.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
I don't know anyway. Benson is not even interested to Google. Yeah, yeah,
you didn't google, or you didn't look up one article,
because like we're people.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
They go in two.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Thousand and eight, when did Google? Really?

Speaker 3 (42:02):
When did the verb question?

Speaker 2 (42:04):
I don't know what? And embarrassed for me?

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Where we ask jeeves ing? Where we ask Jeevesing? In
two thousand and six, still like what were we doing?

Speaker 3 (42:13):
We were binging? Also people were trying to.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
So Benson looks a little bit shook when she hears
the words i'm his partner, and she goes, I'm just
gonna go talk to Daddy Craigan, and you could see
Beck is still not kind of like, wait, how does
this woman know everybody at the precinct? Like she's not
really inquisitive here, and she is a detective.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
So it's weird.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
So just to place you in time, this is the
episode right after Benson's stint undercover as persephone James, the
episode Infiltrated, which we've covered, where she goes undercover with
an Eco terrorism unit and she walks into Craigan's office
and he's like, whoa live, You're back, Like nobody told me.
I don't have a spot for you. And Benson's like, yeah, yeah,
I just met the new gal. How's that going? And

(42:57):
Craigan's like kind of rough at first, but all good now,
and then he's like, but I can get her out
of here, It's just going.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
To take some time.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
And meanwhile, Benson's like staring Daggers through the window, watching
Elliott put his hand on Beck's shoulder and the two
of them being very flirty. Like the body language between
them is very different than his body language would live.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
He never came up to Libya while she was at her.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
Desk looking at a file and like put his hands
on her shoulders. You know, Like, well, he's on a
break with his wife at the moment too. That's true,
that's true as well. Yes, yes, let's be clear about
not like cheating, right, but he's even when he's on
a break with his wife in later episodes with Benson,
he's not that the flirty. The flirtiness is different than

(43:40):
what he has with Beck, you know. And Benson tells Craigan, no, actually,
don't like, don't shift her out of here, like I'm
actually not ready to come back, and that's what I
came to tell you. And he's like, oh, okay, and
she's like, I'm just going to go now. And he's like, oh,
we're going to leave without seeing Elliott and she's like,
he's busy, I'll catch up with him later. And also
don't tell him I was here. It's like, look at

(44:02):
all these little games, like what are we doing? And
this is like obviously the fever pitch of when people
are thinking that these two are going to get together.
And probably one of the reasons why people hate Beck
so much is like whether you wanted those two together
or not. I don't think any of us want Beck
and Stabler together. But now Stabler's talking to Beck about
the case, okay, and you know, he's like, I think

(44:23):
we should change our focus. I think we need to
move on to Victor. Like the guy in there is
not a killer. He puked when he saw the pictures,
and Beck's like, well, that could be fear, Like, you know,
he's looking at a life in Attica or whatever. And
Beck's also kind of like, why would this pimp Victor
kill his moneymakers?

Speaker 3 (44:39):
And Stabler's like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Maybe they wanted to leave with Blake Peters and Victor
couldn't let that happen. If you lose control of your stable,
you're out of business. And Stabler like the way he's
talking to her, he's like soft talking to her. He's
not talking in a regular voice. He's like, yeah, I mean,
I don't know, it could be it could be this.
Like he's just really like talking to her in such
a quiet like, hey, I can actually be really gentle

(45:03):
in bed if you want that, you know. And so
it's obviously he has kind of like a crush on her,
and he's like trust me on this, you know. And
she's like, okay, boo boo, I'll talk to Belinda and
find out where this guy lives. And Stabler's like, why
don't you let me go with you? And she's like no, like,
let me do it alone. Like trust goes both ways,
like you have to trust me, you know, like, if
you want me to trust you on this angle, then

(45:24):
let trust me to talk to this girl by myself.
So now Belinda is telling Dan, but I can understand
why Sabler kind of wants to go with Beck because
beck is so gets so involved in the case that.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
I feel like, she goes, what are you stupid? Why
are you working for this pimp?

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Like she doesn't like always take it from like the
same soft Olivia way. So anyway, Belinda's telling Danny how
Victor doesn't like the girls to ever talk about his business.
He gets mad and hits them sometimes if they don't
work hard enough. One time, she says, Monique got this
big tip and wanted to keep some of the money
for a new dress, but Victor found out that he

(45:58):
was holding she was holding out on him and be
up so bad that she couldn't work for a week.
And then there's like a beat, and Belinda's like, I
miss her so like she misses her friend, you know.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
And she asked if she can.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Keep the photo of the girls that they've been using,
you know, of them with their tattoos, because she doesn't
have any pictures of them. She's like, I always ask
Victor if I could go see the girls after they
got adopted, but he told me that they were uptown
girls now and they didn't want to see her, and
that I would embarrass them in front of their new
rich friends. And Beck's like, now you know it's a lie,
and Belinda goes like she finally gets that they're dead

(46:29):
and that he basically made up a like they went
to a farm, basically story for them that you tell
a child when a dog dies. So a stabler is
looking through We see then that stabler is looking through
the window, watching the conversation go on between the two
of them. So then Beck comes out of the room
and she is keyed up. She's furious. She's like, you're
spying on me. I'm not your precious, Olivia, but I'm

(46:51):
a good cop, and not that I would know what
she looks like. I've never googled her.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
And she's like, precious Olivia, like, why are you jealous
of this woman? You didn't even have enough care to
google it. You said, yeah, it's weird, it's weird to
take this out on her hate I hate it. R Yeah,
it's so Reelson, what the fuck I know? And then
he's like, I know you're a good cop. I wasn't

(47:16):
trying to spy on you. I want to introduce you
to someone. This is Sister Peg.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
She runs an outreach program for hookers his words, and
Sister Peg goes sex workers Elliott, which I do feel
like two thousand and six, that's early, Like this is
season eight, Like that's early with Sister Peg using the
right terminology because they keep going on and using hookers.
They keep going on using other language on this show
for quite a while before they start using sex worker regularly.

(47:42):
But Sister Peg was on it from the jump, and
they're like, we think Sister Peg can help with Belinda.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
So they send Sister Peg in.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
To talk to her, and Beck goes, okay, meanwhile, you
and I can go pick up Victor.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
Belinda gave me an address.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
She said that he like, you know, he's got this
woman named Venice who owns the house where Belinda lives,
and every night Victor waits there to collect all the
girls money. So now they're at Venice's house and they're
banging on the door and she's like I'm coming, I'm
getting my clothes on. It's like stalling or whatever, and
she's like, do you have a warrant? They do not
show one. They barge right past her. She did ask

(48:16):
for a warrant, but they just are like out of
the way. Beck lays into Venice. She's like, I can't
believe this, Like he's a man turning out girls, but
you're a woman helping him do it. You're worse than
he is. Like she's very upset that her gender plays
a role like that. She as a woman, would like,
you know, victimize these young girls. And Beck tells her,

(48:37):
why don't you sit down? And she won't and then
she's like sit down and the Venice will not sit down,
and then she tries another time to kind of like
push her onto the couch, but Venice does like any
kind of condition.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
This is actually one of my favorite this scene is
that's one of my favorites ever. And I think about
it all the time.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
Best moments.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
And I wasn't sure it was Underbelly, but as soon
as I saw Venice, I go, oh, my god.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
The guy. I love this.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
You're right, I'd never remember and now I'll remember forever
what episode it is.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah, Like I always I'm like, because we've tried to
find other pimps before you know, but this is the
one where so basically they're like, what the fuck is
going on?

Speaker 3 (49:12):
I won't this bitch sit on the couch.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
And earlier she said something like don't mess up my
couch because they started looking for weapons underneath the gu like,
so we're like, why are you making such gon deal
about the couch girl.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
So they realize something's up.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
They open up the sofa bed, unroll the sofa bed,
and who is wrapped up inside Victor okay, and it
is Michael K. Williams, who is well known for playing
Omar on the Wire and he's been in tons of
other things, an award winning actor who sadly and tragically
died in twenty twenty one after using heroin that was

(49:43):
laced with fentanels. So we yeah, he's only been gone
like a few years, but he is like such a
scary villain in this as well, Like he's so good,
he's such a good actor, and he just they take
him off and he just keeps going, call my attorney,
Call my attorney. He's just telling Dennis, get my lawyer,
and Beck goes, yeah, tell him the charges murder, three counts.

(50:04):
So in interrogation, Stabler addresses him as John Victor Bodine
and like reads off some of his rap sheet, and
Victor is pretty confident that his lawyer is going to
show up and he's going to walk right out of there,
like he's one of these classic purpse like basically kick
him back, being like, you guys have nothing, I'm going
to fucking walk here. And Stabler's like, oh, these three girls,

(50:25):
what's up? You killed them? And he goes, I love
my girls. Why would I kill those pretty little things?
And Stabler goes, you got a funny way of showing love,
making them screw strangers so you can buy your huggy
bear threads, which is a reference to Starsky and Hutch
that I had to look up. And he says, I
never made a woman do anything she didn't want to do.
But the things they do for love, he says. And

(50:48):
he goes, these girls are society's trash. You throw them away.
I take them in and give them a home and
a family. And he's like, you got kids. You know
kids need structure. I need to discipline them or they'll
walk all over me. So Stabler also notices that this
guy's hands are roughed up and he's like, oh, yeah,
it's from boxing.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
I was like a Golden glove boxer or whatever.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
And he basically is laughing in Stabler's face, going, I'm
about to walk up out of here. I'm gonna be
in the dr watching my girl splash around in a pool,
drinking a Kuba libre and smoking a koheba. And for
some reason, this little speech has been in my head
for decades, Like I have literally had this speech in
my head forever about drinking a kuba libre and smoking
a koheba in the dr, like I always remember this

(51:27):
little speech from this guy. So Stabler goes, oh, yeah,
enjoying their weak extradition policy, and he goes yeah, I'll
be so close and you can't even touch me. And
Stabler goes yeah, but you'll still be my bitch, and
Victor just laughs.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
So the two of these they're sparring.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
This is probably Stabler's favorite kind of guy that he
likes to have a little back and forth with. So
now we're back with Beck and Belinda and sister Peg
and they need Belinda to sign a statement against Victor
and she's like, but he never did anything to me,
like I wanted to do all that stuff. And they're like, yeah,
but baby, did you have sex for money and then
give it to Victor? And she's like yeah, and they're
like that's a crime, unfortunately, so you know, like sadly,

(52:04):
you have been committing a crime. And she's like, well,
where am I gonna go live if Victor goes to jail?
And they're like, where's your family? And she's like, back
in Toledo? So you want to send me back to
a double wide trailer full of brats with my mom
blobbed out in front of the TV and my stepdad
crawling into my bed every night. So obviously she comes
from a horrible home life and that's not an option.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
This is the monologue that lives in my head. Oh yeah,
like she's yeah, I just I love the library, my.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Mom blobbed out in front of the TV watching her stories. Yeah,
and then she goes like they go, well, there are
good foster parents, and Belinda's like hard passed, like no
one has ever taken care of me except for Victor.
He is my daddy. And sister Peg is like, well,
do you want to stay with me? And Belinda is
skeptical because She's like, I know how the system works.

(52:58):
I can't just like live wherever I want. Sister Peg
is like, well, actually, I'm a nun, so I only
take orders from God. So like, anyone is allowed to
come and stay with me if I say so. Danny
tells her to pull out the picture of the girls, right,
this infamous tattoo girl picture that's been the whole episode,
and she goes, look at your sisters, they're gone. Victor
hurt them, and she's like, yeah, but he would never

(53:18):
hurt me.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
He loves me.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
And it is like, I think this episode also really
just like convinced me how fucking brainwashed these girls are
a lot of the time. Like even if like a
guy is like hurting them or killing their friends and
has you in a life of servitude, basically you're like, no, no,
he loves me, Like like nothing can get that out

(53:40):
of your head, you know. And obviously they know who
to pick. She's got a shitty home life, she's got
no one else, and he does probably buy her an
occasional purse, and she thinks that's love, you know, And
so she's like, well, he would never hurt me. He
loves me, and he's They're like, well, like the way
he loved Chantalain, Amber and Monique, I mean he killed them.

(54:01):
And Belinda's like no, and Beck's like, hees you about
what happened to them, but he threw them away like trash.
And Belinda's like, but they aren't trash. And Beck's like
and neither of you. And She's like, okay, are you
sure I can live with you? To Sister Peg. Sister
PEG's like, yes, girl, come on over slumber party central
at the church.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
And we know what comes next. Yeah. I don't know
if any child has ever been sent to Sister Peg
and not brutally brought outside.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Like has it ever worked out?

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Sister Peg needs mace, she needs a taser, she needs mace,
she needs a security guard, she needs something.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
At that place, it like does not work.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
He is attacked every single time someone has a slumber
party there.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Basically, the criminals are like, she's with the nun and
they're like, oh easy, I'll be right there. You know,
they just going so we basically she agrees, Blinda agrees
to sign the shit and she's gonna go live with
Sister Peg. So now we're at arraignment and it's Casey
Novak up against victor's attorney Hashi Horowitz. Okay, a classic
victor plea not guilty, And Novak's like, I want big bail.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
She just says high bail. She doesn't even like name
a number.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
I would say, he literally joked to our detectives about
leaving the country. I would say, we he's remanded, you know,
and or he has to release surrender his passport. And
Hashi goes, that's just a prejuador, the prejudice the jury.
And Novak's like, he pimped out a fourteen year old girl.
And Hashi Horowitz is like, oh, well, why hasn't she
been arrested? Then that's a crime. And Novak goes, she's
a victim and Hashi Horowitz goes, she's a whore. And

(55:28):
I don't remember him ever saying anything so horrible about
a like it's a fourteen year old girl who's been like,
you know, trafficked. Essentially. I didn't think Hashi Horowitz. I
knew he was ruthless, but I didn't think he was
cold hearted like that. And then the judge is like,
all right, enough with the bickering, I'm setting the bail
at five hundred K. Stabler tells Victor as he's walking out,
better put that Dominican vacation on hold, and.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
You know he kind of, you know, Michael K.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Williams looks a little bit like he got got for
a second there, Victor. And Casey tells Stabler and Beck
that pimping out a kid is a seafi. If I
convict him, you've got fifteen years to build your murder case.
And they're like okay, and Beck's like, I'm too keyed
up to go home.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
Anyone want to go get a drink?

Speaker 1 (56:08):
So now Staylor, Beck, and Novak are at the bar
and Stabler is like fawning over how good Beck was
with Belinda, and It's like, you know, it's like dog,
she's not even on Benson's level, like you're just separated
in horny, Like why are you like complimenting her so
hard on like how.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
She's treating this girl.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
And Beck's like no, no, and Stabler's like, see, she
can't even take a couple of men, and Novak goes,
it's probably because you never give them, like you've never
said a nice thing to me in my life. And
then she goes, and then Stagler goes, but that's why
I like you. You know, no one wants a sensitive man.
It's like, okay, no, back. I don't think that's true either,
but you know it's for her purposes as having a detective.
I guess it's good that he's not that sensitive. Then

(56:49):
some nerd comes in and goes, Hi, Casey, and she goes,
I got to go talk to him. He's a homicide
da and I am here to network.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
So she leaves.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Plus she can probably feel that she's third wheeling hard
because these two are like quietly giving each other compliments
over a beer. And so she leaves Stabler and Beck alone,
and Beck's like, I gotta get going, and he's like, well,
you left your car back at the station, babe. And
he's like, I'll drive you. And she's like, no, no,
I'll take a cab. And he's like, it's fine, my
car's right up back, I'll take you.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
They get to his car, which it looks like it's
a Jeep Wrangler with a soft top.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
Have we seen that before? We know that was his car.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
We've seen him once driving with Kathleen when they saw
the Once he was driving with either Kathleen or Marino Kathleen,
and they saw the fire, remember they saw like a
they saw like a car on fire on the side
of the road or whatever.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
They stop to help him.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
We've seen Stabler in a car a few times and
I'm like, you have a Jeep Wrangler with a soft top,
or you a sixteen year old at my high school.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
But also, how do the kids fit in there?

Speaker 3 (57:44):
What kind of car for a family of six?

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (57:46):
Also, it's like New York City, anyone with a knife
can like break into the soft top, Like it makes
no sense.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
I didn't even notice that.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
But it's like it feels like classic, Like he just
feels like a cool guy, like probably from his lifeguard
days in Astoria, like driving a soft hop up. So
he opens the door for Beck and then as she's
about to get in, he just grabs her and pulls
her in for a kiss.

Speaker 3 (58:07):
It's kind of out of the blue.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
You'd think he'd like wait for a sign or like
a little bit more consent, but she kisses him back
and they start to make out, and then one of
their phones rings and they silence it, and then a
pager beeps and they ignore it, and then another pager
beeps and they're like.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
Okay, maybe if we're both getting paid.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Something's going on and they look down and it's a
nine to one to one they both have from Kraigan.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
So Stabler calls him and it's bad news.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Obviously, Sister Peg was attacked and she's in the hospital.
Sister Peg cannot catch a fucking break like and Belinda
is gone, so dundun, We've got to stop the makeout
session and get there to.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
The And I wonder, like this was like two thousand
and six.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
I remember watching this episode, and I used to back
in the day around this time, want Stable and Benson
to at least make out. I didn't want them to
like end up together, but I always wanted there to
be like a kiss. And I can't remember how I
felt about this kid. I remember hating Beck, but I
wonder if the fans were like, well, at least we're
seeing something him, something with you know. But like I'm

(59:07):
sure the obviously the Benchler people hated this. But at
the hospital, Craigan is catching the two lovebirds up a
neighborhood to fight. They found Peg unconscious, no sign of
forced entry, and she'll tell us what happens when she
wakes up that can't believe that Belinda could have done this,
and she's like, Stabler, this could be one of your daughters.
And he's like, uh fuck, no, excuse me. He's like,

(59:30):
not my precious Catholic angels. He's like, once a girl
gets pulled down by the street, they're capable of anything,
So like, do not compare these girls to my girls
and whatever, Stabler. Then they get interrupted by a doctor.
She's like, what's up. It's been three seconds. Sister Peg
is awake. So she says, I'm so sorry. I couldn't
stop him, Sister Peg. She goes, it was a man.

(59:51):
There was a knock at the door. I opened it.
He shoved me in. I fell, he kicked me. He
cracked my ribs, Like you.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Don't I think maybe she would stop even offering for
people to say, I know my track records bad they
find us, we have no c Yeah, I just how
is this keeps being a plan?

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
And how are they finding her?

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
So is She's just like listed like it's so, I.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Mean whatever, Maybe Belinda like told her him where she
was because she's like so trapped by him. But like
this guy took Belinda, so she tried she goes, I
try to stop him, but he hit me in the
head a couple of times and I passed out. So
also goes more to like how this man attacks people
as he goes right for the fucking head. And then

(01:00:32):
she described him as having a scar on his face,
which is a you know, distinguishing characteristic of Victor Boudin
as well as this actor. And they're like, how the
fuck did he make bail already? Like how would he
have made bail? So now they're in holding at the
jail and this UNI goes, no, no, Victor Bodine, he's
still here and he's waiting for transport to Wrikers.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
This is another classic moment. I guess this episode is
way more. It has so many more classics than we think.
This is one of my favorite moments and some s
FU history too, like it's sticks out. It's an interesting thing. Yeah,
but going I keep stopping you right now, It's like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
This is like this is you know, uh, this episode
has a lot of classic elements.

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
So he calls Victor Bodine.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
This UNI goes Victor Bodine and surprised, some young kid
steps forward like definitely not Victor, and they're like, what's
your name?

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
And he's like Victor Bodinea.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
They're like, cut the shit, like what's your name and
he's like, my name is actually Jason Young. And then
the guy goes, oh, Jason Young who got bailed out
three hours ago.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
So that guy made no fucking wasted no time.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
He literally got out of jail, went straight to get
Melinda knocked out a nun like, he went straight there.
He's only been out for three hours. How did he
find her again? Who knows?

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Now they're talking to this kid.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
They bring Jason Young in for questioning and they're like like,
why did you switch places with this guy who you
just met? And they're like, no, no, I've known Victor
my whole life. He's a legend in my neighborhood. Plus
we find out he promised him an iPod very of
the time, an expensive little eye, probably an iPod Touch
and Beck goes, you threw away your future for an

(01:02:11):
iPod and the kids like, what are you talking about
throwing away my future? Like, and the guy goes jail
break is a felony charge, and this kid's freaking out
because he's like, but I didn't break I didn't break
out I'm right here, and like, he didn't realize that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Like, helping a criminal get out of jail wasn't there.
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
I'm like, how fucking stupid are you?

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Yeah, Like, I mean, obviously, this dude is very manipulative
and like rocking people to doing what he wants. But
it is like, you thought this wasn't a crime. You
thought helping someone is jail was just chill.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Well, Victor told him he was also going to get
away with it because soon the lawyer was going to
come spring him out and then no one would ever
be the wiser.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
But unfortunately, the guy you helped.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Get out of jail immediately committed a crime within ten
minutes of getting out.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
So you fucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
You trusted the wrong neighborhood legend. And so he's freaking
why is he a legend? Why ruining children's live? I know,
I know, get a new hero, Get a new hero.
He's like, uh, he definitely doesn't realize he was going
to get in this much trouble. And they're like, okay,
well you can try to help us, maybe we'll lower
your sentence or something. Tell us where you were meeting

(01:03:13):
Victor for your iPod touch payment and it was Venice's crib.
So now we're back at Venice's house. She's in the
same outfit. It's definitely been a couple of days we've
had arraignment whatever, but she's in the same blue like
track suit outbit matching and is like, I haven't seen
Victor since you dragged his ass out of here in cuffs,
and they pissed her off, going, oh, yeah, he's on

(01:03:34):
the run, but you know, he went to great lengths
to bring Belinda with him. And she's like that skanky
ass ho, which they love saying that on this show.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Skanky ass ho.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
We've got scan cost Central, you know, is a famous
quote from Iced Tea, which, by the way, a listener
did make us travel mugs that say scan cost Central
on them, and my children grab it out of the
cabinet all the time and play with it. And I'm
always like, can we just not play with the scan
cost Central mug? If another parent is over here, I
am going to get in trouble. But Stabler then twists

(01:04:03):
the knife for Venice and goes, yeah, I guess he
thought she'd look better topless on the beach in the
dr and Venice is like he promised me that trip.
Like she's getting pissed, and Stabler goes show us where
he keeps his money, and Beck's like, Beck goes.

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
You're gonna let him?

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
Do you like that?

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Like both of them are like literally speaking in a
microaggressive accent a lot of this episode, and Venice spills
he's got a loft by the river, down by the
Williamsburg Bridge, And I'm immediately like, damn, you know, that's
nice real estate down by the Williamsburg Bridge, North eleventh.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
That's nice.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
So when they get there, the door is open to
the to the loft with two pack suitcases propping it open.
Beck and Stabler like creep into the place with their
guns drawn. They don't see anyone at first, but then
they hear Victor slapping Belinda and screaming at her in
the next room, and they're like they she walks.

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
Out, I didn't he leave her?

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
I don't get like, just go to the DR, Like,
I don't understand making a pit stop.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
I think he probably was gonna kill her eventually in
the DR so that she can't testify for this case.
Because if they, if they somehow extradt him from the DRS,
she's already signed this document saying that he pimped her out.
So it's like, if you kill her, she can't testify.
I guess I'm assuming he was like literally about too,
but I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
Luck of them, Yeah, and so.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
Beck and Stabler also, yeah, I would also say it
draws attention to yourself to be a full grown man
traveling with a girl who looks fifteen, you know, like
I would like, that's not your daughter, Like I would
say that that's uh, he probably would have been better
off just yeah, go to the dr by yourself. So
Belinda walks out of a room at one point and
they try to grab her and she's like, no, get

(01:05:48):
off me, and like goes back to Victor. And now
Victor comes out of the bedroom with her gun on her,
using her as a full human shield hostage, and he's
like both of you back up to Stabler and Beck
and Belinda's.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
Like, I don't want to leave you, Victor.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
Like she's like professing her love the whole time this
is going on. And this is always what I remember
about this episode two Like day on this girl, like
even as he's like holding a gun to her head,
is like, you're my one true love, you know, like
and just can't break out of the like spell, and
so he brings her out the door down the stairs.
It's like a full chase, and then Belinda has fallen

(01:06:21):
at some point and she's like, please slow down, like
my ankle, Like I think she's twisted an ankle or something.
He eventually throws her over a railing, knowing that the
cops will like not shoot at him because they will
go to attend to the hanging teenager because she is
hanging on by her hands off of a railing and
she's just yelling Victor, Victor, and then Stabler saves her.

(01:06:42):
She's probably the whole time like get off me, my daddy,
like whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
But Stabler saves her.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Victor runs for this suv, gets in and starts driving it.
They look like they're on a rooftop of the building too.
He starts driving it directly at Beck and then she
has no other choice.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
She's saying stop, stop, stop. He's driving right at her.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
She shoots at him like three times and she hits
him like you see the bullets hitting. And in the
next scene it's the morning and he is dead. He
is dead head against the sheering wheel Victor did not
make it. So they're loading Belinda into the ambulance and
she's like, can I see him? And they're like, it's
probably best that we just cut it off here, and

(01:07:20):
she's like, he loved me. No one else has ever
loved me. And then the ambulance takes off, and then
Stabler spots Beck staring off at the Manhattan skyline. It's
quite it's very beautiful, and he's like, let me drive
you home, and their posture is like very couple like,
like just the way that they're holding themselves near each other.
But then she goes, I need to be alone, and

(01:07:42):
she just walks away from him, and that's dick wolf baby.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
She's not gonna be horny for you after this case, Stabler.
She's upset. Every case gets in her head. She doesn't
want to continue the makeout from earlier.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
You know, Yeah, it's I just don't like seeing him
this desperate either, I know, just like strange and uncomfortable
and I can't I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
And the next episode is the l Fanning episode, and
that's where Beck calls it quits. After that one, after
a little girl sets her house on fire, she's like,
I think I got to move on. I think I
got to go back to where'd they say that she
came to victim? She just likes dead people homicide. Yeah,
but Craigan says something like Warrens sent her or something

(01:08:28):
like that, some other department I hadn't heard of. But anyway, whatever,
we got to get back into where Beck came from.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
So it's about how the live victims are harder.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Yes, and yeah, she's also Danish assigned to the SVU.

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
It's why it's just wild.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Yeah, not a Danish exchange program. All right, Well, the
crimes they're here. So Matthew Tompkins' case. On the streets,
he was known as Knowledge and this guy sixty three

(01:09:06):
three hundred pounds and according to a lot of sources,
he won Pimp of the Year.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
Yeah, and when.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
They were organizing that, huh, Yeah, they were searched. So
when they like eventually searched his properties, they found a
giant four foot Pimp of the year's statue And it's
from a DC competition called the Player's Ball, and it
goes to the pimp that convinces everyone that he made
the most money in the biggest name for himself that year.

(01:09:34):
But also drum roll, he was a bronx mailman at
this he was a mailman. He was a lettercari hey,
so he was like this mild mannered mailman and then
pimp of the year all at the same time. And
he had a hummer, and he was known to recruit
girls as young as thirteen, so straight from this episode,
and he was working from at least nineteen ninety eight,

(01:09:55):
and he obviously sucked, you know. One of the former
sex workers said that she was seventeen and he made
her pose for explicit photos for the Village Voice and
then made her have sex with the photographer for payment
for those photos.

Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
My god, And in two.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Thousand and four she said that she brought in like
two hundred and twenty two thousand, two hundred dollars one year,
like in two thousand and four, and was only given
twenty dollars a day.

Speaker 3 (01:10:20):
Obscene, obscene, It's just I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
Another said she was practically at like a slave, and
that was to news Channel ten and Amarillo, Texas. It's
from the ap but like wild story for them to
pick up, yeah, from this Texas paper.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
Or news channel.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
December two thousand and five, he is busted in his
hummer and the ego is what really got him because
he did an interview with a Florida magazine and they
used the name Brandon, which was an alias of his,
and so the FBI came knocking not long after that. So,
if you're gonna be doing illegal stuff, I wouldn't do pr. Yeah,
it really wouldn't do press. But it was also part

(01:10:59):
of a year long probes. The FBI and New Jersey
State Police were watching him and actually the US Postal
Service Inspector General's Office and oh and yeah, local police
as well. And he had seven to eight girls, each
of them brought in one to two grand a night
and as much as like fifty k a weekend. So
he's just making a lot of a lot of money.

(01:11:21):
And he had homes everywhere. He had homes in Bronx, Yonkers, Manhattan,
South Jersey, and Las Vegas. And so he was charged
at thirty eight years old with conspiracy to recruit underage
prostitutes and money laundering. And he was the head of
a Hunts Point based sex workering that did business in
New York, New Jersey, Ohio, Boston, Atlanta, Philly, Miami, Atlantic City,

(01:11:43):
and Vegas. So yeah, you gotta get awards. But they're
fucking organized. And so one of the associates of the
six that were arrested with him, Demetrius Booby Lemis, admitted
that they admitted that they started hoodlum records to recruit went.
They all pled guilty, all the pimps. So we have
Ramla Khan argrugious. I'm not if you're a plug guilty pimp.

(01:12:09):
I don't think I have to say your name, right ha.
We have women Emily and Jacqueline Collins called Salski, someone
named Jemerson, and then one unnamed and then obviously you
know Booby, so March then Booby Yeah, so March two
thousand and seven. He was sentenced to more than twenty
three years in prison, Thank fucking God. Hell yes, he

(01:12:30):
pled guilty to the conspiracy to transport miners and the
conspiracy to engage in money laundering. The laundering was about
eight hundred thousand dollars in US Postal Service in Western
Union money orders purchased and used by members of this conspiracy.
And interesting, So.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
I was like, I was like, why is he staying
in the postal service? Like once he starts making this money,
Like why stay in the postal service.

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
I guess, just to keep up the.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
Front that you're like working a regular job, but you're
also using the postal service your advantage.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
Damn.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
I mean, it's like diabolical and he figured it out,
he did.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
But you know who I always think about Gus Fring.
Is that the from Breaking Bad? Yeah? Poios armanos baby,
Because in my head, I'm like, I would just not
sell drugs if I didn't have I don't want to
work at the chicken spot, Like I just can't imagine
clocking in as a chicken shop manager. Like I guess
you could take vacation time to be at your property.
It's probably about the love of the crime. I have

(01:13:26):
to rewatch that show, okay, yeah, okay. So with the
pleading guilty, he agreed to four feit seven hundred and
forty eight two hundred and forty three dollars in funds,
Like really exact, he gave up three New York properties,
one New Jersey property, and eight vehicles, all which came
from like this illegal sex work enterprise slave situation. So
basically he tried to plead with this judge. The judge

(01:13:48):
is a US district judge. Fredswolfson, and he was asking
for leniency because him and the girls bonded as family,
and she said, oh, okay, well I'm going to give
you the maximum. Actually I hate you. No, it wasn't
the full maximum. She was unmoved. Just for effect. I
said that the max was thirty years, and she gave
him twenty three. So the judge said to him, you

(01:14:09):
wouldn't send your daughter or sister to do that. So
that's not a family. But we know that some people
in certain families do that. So yeah, it's like, yeah,
our world knows no and to the darkness.

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
Anyways, so he also had a two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars fine, but also money from monetary losses suffered
by the victims, so he owed them a bunch of
money and shocking, he also resigned from the postal service
after he pled guilty. So if you were wondering, one
of the former girls said in court, if he gets out,

(01:14:43):
I know he'll do it again.

Speaker 3 (01:14:45):
And that was a Channel nine news and Trenton, New Jersey.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
But via the AP in New Jersey in twenty thirteen,
they passed the bill that got unanimous approval that victims
of human traffickings, criminal records would be expunged, and it
happened to some of the women in this case Trafficking Prevention,
Protection and Treatment Act that Atlantic County Assistant Prosecutor Danielle S.
Buckley called, in quotes a paradigm shift where sex workers

(01:15:09):
are not just seen as people committing crimes, but more
fundamentally victims of vicious psychological controlling.

Speaker 3 (01:15:16):
So thanks, great, take that, Hashi Horowitz.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
Yeah, so one of the women was the first for
this bill to work for. And you know, she had
a really hard life. Father murdered at five, mother abandoned
her ten years later. She had a son at twenty,
and then fell for this man who introduced her to heroin,
and then met a man Tompkins, who promised to help
her make money and reunite her with her son, but
instead controlled her life and pushed her into the sex business.
Beating's threats. She was arrested a bunch and her testimony

(01:15:42):
is what helped put this fucker in jail, but her
convictions stayed on her record and she couldn't get a job.
And this would be like just a giant step to
getting her life back and so her record got expunged
and they gave back all the fines that she had paid,
which was around ten grand. And it's and she says,
it's tough to trust the STEM and cops that arrested you.
But hopefully this helps a lot of people and has

(01:16:03):
helped them in the decade plus that this bill has
been passed. But I'm sure we'll be reversed any moment,
so we shall see. And then the next case is
Carlos Curtis case. And I would say this was like
probably the most difficult if I had finding information. It
was only like FB like court reports, and then one
New York Times like a paragraph and a giant other expose.

(01:16:25):
And then I had to pay seven dollars to read
this Washington Post article. They do a thing, but I
like this. It's seven dollars for a week and no renewal.
Yeah there's Oh that's nice. It says no renewal. I mean,
I'm gonna check it for sure, but it says like
no automatic renewal if you do it this way.

Speaker 1 (01:16:43):
Yeah, like a week long, like like a day pass.
I just want to read a couple of things, and I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
Out of here. Yeah, I'm like, should I get ahead
of schedule because I only have it for a week.
I don't want to keep giving them seven dollars every
time I want to read a paper. But truly nothing
about this man. It was really difficult, but this so
Carlos Curtis was found guilty in sex trafficking, corsion, enticement
of a minor, transportation of a person for prostitution, and

(01:17:07):
he was sentenced to life in prison. He was brought
in for prostituting a twelve year old runaway he recruited
from New York and the initials are ap for her
and a seventeen year old he brought to the district
from Maryland.

Speaker 3 (01:17:20):
C B A lot of that, I guess, I don't
know DC.

Speaker 2 (01:17:22):
People call it the district, but oh yeah, that's the district, honey.
He was the first pimp tried, So both of these
cases actually of huge legal first things, like she was
the first, you know, in the previous case, it was
the first to have this bill work for her, this
victim's bill. And this guy was the first pimp tried
in the district under federal statute. In an effort to

(01:17:45):
use federal anti trafficking laws as a tool to prosecute
pimps so they would have stiffer penalties than the local
statutes would allow. So this Trafficking Victims Protection Act was
passed in two thousand and Also, prior to this case,
he was convicted in New Jersey in nineteen ninety eight
for promoting prostitution of a minor. And I don't know

(01:18:08):
why he didn't get more time for it. It was already
back out on the streets. It really makes no sense
to me. And I couldn't find information on that first
arrest as well. But it was a big point of
contention in the courts because you know, the defense obviously
argues you can't have like past crimes involved in the
future thing and so like to put him away for life.

(01:18:28):
You can't have if this past case. But that's the
attorney was saying. Then she was arguing that the Jersey
conviction was not violent and should not count towards the
decision for a life sentence. I guess I don't know why,
I said she Jensen Egerton Barber. The second, I'm sure
it's a man.

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
Why I mean, I guess, well, I'll voting in prostitution
is not exactly violence, but it feels well, this violence adjacent.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
The judge was so like, I'm obsessed with this judge.
So Kessler, okay, So she disagreed and said the earlier
conviction was indeed violent, and with the Maryland drug convictions
as well and the district pimping conviction, it all works out.
And then she was quoted and this is what you're
getting at. Putting a girl out on the street for
prostitution exposes her to beating, to assault, to murder. So

(01:19:20):
in that way, it is very fucking violent. You know.
You don't get to just throw someone out in the
streets to do really unsafe work with no protections and
then say it's not violent.

Speaker 3 (01:19:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
Fuck you know. So this judge is the shit. March
thirty first, two thousand and four, this federal judge issued
a nine count indictment and he was found guilty of
six of the nine charges on July second, two thousand
and four, and he was sentenced to six concurrent terms
of life. But it took more than a year from
being convicted by a jury to be sentenced, so he
was sentenced March seventeen, Saint Patrick's Day Hello in two

(01:19:53):
thousand and five, he was given the chance to address
the court, he did not, And then again US District
Judge Gladys Kessler, I'm obsessed with her, called his crimes
to the Washington Post degrading beyond words, and it was.
He was twenty nine and his face was stunned when
Kessler said life, and the Post wrote a face was

(01:20:15):
a portrait of a pained disbelief. So fuck you, bitch,
and the judges quoted yes again in the Post, I
had to get the most out of my seven dollars.
They suffer psychologically and emotionally, and they suffer physically, and
they often suffer for a lifetime, as mister Curtis is
going to suffer for a lifetime. This bitch is poetic.
I'm like a Cussoice judge like good quotes good knowledge.

(01:20:39):
He was, though granted compassionate release in twenty twenty by
Judge Beryl A. Howell. He served seventeen years of this
life sentence and basically he has extreme ms. Oh he
lost eighty five percent of his vision. He's in an
electric wheelchair or in his bed and that's it. And
his physical condition gave him fears of contracting COVID, and

(01:21:00):
we covered cases where we were writing to parole boards
to make sure people weren't fucking let out during COVID
during this passionate release bonanza. But yeah, yeah, I mean
when you're ms, is that fucked up?

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
I guess it's like if he's eighty five percent, I mean,
he's not going to do it again, right, he doesn't
have the capacity.

Speaker 2 (01:21:18):
So yeah, So he tried to get out many times before,
so like there was it was the same reasoning, but
he was denied tons of times, Like he tried to
appeal and get out, like, oh well all the time,
but because of the convictions and discipline history, no one
really cared. But basically the court document said that the
defendant at this time in no way resembles the defendant
sentenced in two thousand and six and he got supervised

(01:21:40):
released for five years. But again, his physical limitations seriously
undermine the notion that you would you don't do anything.
And I guess he did show remorse. He said he
hated who he was and.

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
That's that all right, Well he hated to do I
can all agree on something, and I hate to say
like it if it's the first federal case, it's like
that does send a message to other sex traffickers and
like pimps that you know you could also get back
to back life sentences, you know, like.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
This, man, I know, it just makes me feel like
I don't want them to make an example of Luigi.
I know, I know I don't either. I don't either.

Speaker 3 (01:22:17):
But a one time it feels different than running a business.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
It's very different. It's just like nuance is so important
in our world, is like void of it now. But
it's just like yeah, for this, I'm definitely like fuck everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:22:32):
Yeah, so true. But we have a great guest coming up,
so don't move a muscle. Our guest today has been
working since she was thirteen years old, when she made
her acting debut in the film Little Manhattan. She's also

(01:22:54):
been featured on shows like FBI's Most Wanted and Inside
Amy Schumer. But you know her best as the paw
print back tatted underage sex worker Belinda Halt aka Passion.
Please enjoy our chat with Charlotte Ray Rosenberg.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
It's actually wild saying your face because you've been in
it in our minds since season eight. It's like wild
and that is thank you. What a classic episode, such
a good performance, What a little what a little How
old were you?

Speaker 6 (01:23:27):
I think I was fourteen?

Speaker 7 (01:23:29):
Yeah, like that was I may have been thirteen, I
know I was playing fourteen.

Speaker 3 (01:23:33):
Yeah, and how did it? Did you know?

Speaker 2 (01:23:35):
You were like a sex worker on the street abuse? Like,
how do you kind of prep for that at thirteen?
And your parents are like, let's do this?

Speaker 6 (01:23:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:23:42):
I mean I grew up in New York City at
the time. My mom and I watched the show.

Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
Weekly, oh, calegeously.

Speaker 6 (01:23:51):
So we were huge fans.

Speaker 7 (01:23:53):
We you know, I knew it was a I was
also yeah, for better or for worse. My parents let
me watch really brutal stuff from a very young age.

Speaker 6 (01:24:05):
So you know, you go, you grow up fast.

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
Yeah, on the street, those New York City kids, they
grow up fast.

Speaker 3 (01:24:11):
That's true.

Speaker 5 (01:24:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
We do live shows on the road and we get
a lot of mom daughter duos, dad daughter or grandma's
like it was wildly it's a family show.

Speaker 4 (01:24:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
Everybody always says I was watching it when I was
way too young to be watching it. It's like, I
don't know everyone's watching it, and like when they're ten.

Speaker 2 (01:24:28):
Well, we need to have lessons, like I bet your
I bet this episode helped people in the future, you know,
I hope, Yeah, I bet they'd people like wait this,
I don't want I don't want to do that ever.

Speaker 7 (01:24:43):
I don't know like like having sex with children is bad,
it's a good life lesson. Yeah. I remember at the
time it was the idea of being you know, sort
of like Jodie Foster and Taxi driver was like a
big selling point, and you know, it never it never
crossed my mind that it would be problematic in any way.

(01:25:05):
And I had, you know, sort of boheman parents.

Speaker 6 (01:25:07):
In that way.

Speaker 7 (01:25:08):
I was just watching the episode like right before I
signed on, and it's it's it's wild looking back and
just I got a little emotional like myself.

Speaker 6 (01:25:23):
And just like dress up in that outfit.

Speaker 7 (01:25:25):
I mean that outfit is amazing, like it it also
reminded me and this is like a little sus But
I I remember like that pink sort of bathing suit
top I had like no boobs.

Speaker 6 (01:25:42):
And they like made me have big day. They like
stop you, They like made me have boobs, which is
like cut, it's a little weird.

Speaker 3 (01:25:53):
That's so weird.

Speaker 1 (01:25:55):
Uh yeah, well I just think what's what's weird is
like the show either casts like little kids to play
little kids, but usually when it's like a teen, it's
like a twenty year old playing a fourteen year old
or a thirteen year old, and you're like the actual age,
Like I don't think that they do that that much.
So I feel like that's a testament to your acting.
They were like, she can handle this, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:26:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:26:16):
Do you remember the audition, like what besides?

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
Yeah, tell us more of like what came into your
mind watching it and when it was happening and they
were giving you the boobs, do you remember feeling a
certain way about it or like I.

Speaker 7 (01:26:30):
Think at the time, I was just like, yeah, like
that looks hot, like cool? Yeah, Like I was, you know,
I was like really into being sexy, and.

Speaker 6 (01:26:40):
The in later years I was.

Speaker 7 (01:26:42):
It was when I was sort of like wait, wait okay,
but I was they I was playing fourteen and they
so what.

Speaker 6 (01:26:50):
Was the message there? But yeah, I remember the audition.

Speaker 7 (01:26:56):
It's you know, in Chelsea Peers where they also shoot.
I mean, I don't remember the actual inside the audition,
but I remember being really excited about being cast as
I think to this day it's like the kind of
hardest character I've been cast as because I think people

(01:27:17):
usually see me as more like soft or.

Speaker 6 (01:27:20):
You know, more precocious.

Speaker 7 (01:27:24):
And I was so excited to meet Marishka, like idol,
and then a bit disappointed when I got said and
I mean, I guess I had read the script ahead
of time too, but I was like.

Speaker 2 (01:27:37):
Oh, well, you know what, we're disappointed For a second,
you were going to have like this story of how
she was mean to you. And then I was like, oh, yeah,
it's fucking back.

Speaker 7 (01:27:54):
No, no, I I can tell you about how fucking
amazing Marishka Hargay is though, because when you originally reached
out about this podcast, I assumed that it would be
about a later episode. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but
I was I was utterly delighted to know that this

(01:28:16):
episode was about Underbelly. But no, no, she was amazing,
So yeah on set, I didn't meet her at the time,
and I was crestfallen. But Connie was lovely, so lovely,
and you know, I was less starstruck, which was probably
a good thing for me, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
And you didn't care about Maloney at all in terms
of it was all about Marishka, right, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:28:42):
Yeah, I was just like, oh, yeah, that's the guy. Okay, cool.

Speaker 3 (01:28:46):
Did your mom come to set with you?

Speaker 6 (01:28:49):
Yes, she was. She was totally excited. I mean again,
because we were such fans of the show.

Speaker 7 (01:28:56):
We were just like, oh, look there's the jail cell,
and like there there's the interrogation room. And it was
almost this, you know, it was like the ultimate fan experience.

Speaker 6 (01:29:10):
But yeah, she was there.

Speaker 7 (01:29:11):
And I remember Connie Nilsen like also trying to teach
me how to cry in like our little scene we
have together, and I didn't.

Speaker 6 (01:29:22):
I didn't quite squeeze out a tear.

Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
Well I started in season seventeen. Oh yeah, you were
really crying on the stand.

Speaker 6 (01:29:30):
Oh yeah, lots of squeezed out a lot of tears.

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
Yeah, we we.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
It's funny because we covered this episode already on the podcast.
This is the episode a Misunderstanding from season seventeen, and
I remember saying, oh, the main girl in this is
the girl from Underbelly. But then I'm really kind of
glad that we got you for Underbelly and not for
that one, because we're obviously going to talk about both.

Speaker 2 (01:29:54):
But in that you got to the two big lawyers,
like and it's one of the evil defense attorneys we like,
don't like on the show, was your so, Elizabeth Marble,
why don't I wash?

Speaker 3 (01:30:05):
And Delancey Delaney.

Speaker 1 (01:30:06):
William Delaney William Yeah, he's Buchanan to me, it's so hard.

Speaker 3 (01:30:10):
So how was it working with the two lawyers that
we love?

Speaker 7 (01:30:14):
Well, they were fabulous and yeah Raoul as Barzo, Oh
my god, they were Yeah, he was Delaney is his
name plays Buchanan?

Speaker 6 (01:30:26):
He was mean, he was really, he's Spain.

Speaker 1 (01:30:29):
We had him on the podcast and we were like,
you're so nice and thank god, because if I saw
you in the street, I would probably like, well, no,
what's his Twitter?

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
Bio? Was like the guy you love to hate or something. Yeah,
like your least favorite person on a.

Speaker 6 (01:30:44):
Show that's really good.

Speaker 3 (01:30:45):
Yeah, excellent, jerk excellent.

Speaker 7 (01:30:49):
I remember being visibly repulsed and upset at him, just
like how it was just so like how he was
like violating my personal space. And but did you know
that Marishka directed that episode?

Speaker 2 (01:31:03):
We didn't know, so you really got to meet her?
Did you tell her about Underbelly and you caught up?

Speaker 7 (01:31:08):
Yeah, And so this is where this is the moment
where I get to like gush about Marishka, because not
only did I finally get to meet with her and
work with her, you know, as an actor, but she
was It was like a life changing experience for me
working with her, and I actually I recently reached out
to her about it because I have been transitioning more

(01:31:34):
into filmmaking and I was telling her that, you know,
even though I didn't quite realize it at the time,
being directed by her was like a huge inflection point
for me because she the way she made me feel,
and I think all of the actors, but you know,
she was giving me so much attention because of my role.

(01:31:57):
She just created such a sense of safety and like
feeling seen and like loved, and like there was just
this like immense empathy and sensitivity and like you know,
like looking into my soul with like tears in her
eyes almost and just just it was so beautiful. And

(01:32:18):
it was that that I think really allowed me to
go to the places that I went to and give
the performance that I did that I was like really
proud of and I don't think would have happened in
a normal way.

Speaker 6 (01:32:32):
And it was the first time.

Speaker 7 (01:32:33):
I saw like, oh, because you know, especially coming into
this industry at such a young age, I had such
an idea of what it meant to be a director,
and of course it was very patriarchal and very male,
and you know that like almost having a megaphone kind
of idea of shouting ordering people around. And it was

(01:32:54):
the first time I had experienced someone who was not
only a woman, but like using the emotional sensitivity she
had as like an actor and a deeply feeling loving
person to create like such beautiful performances and energy on

(01:33:15):
the set, Like it was just so palpable, and it
kind of made me realize like, oh, maybe I could,
you know, maybe I could do that too, and I
don't have to be I don't have to change that
part of myself, but I could like bring that sort
of empathetic sensitivity to directing work. So it was really
and she she just I mean she was incredible. Like

(01:33:37):
we stayed in touch, and I'm sure she's done this
with so many people, but just like such Mama Bear,
like above and beyond. I don't know how she has
the bandwidth for it, but she just made me feel
so special and seen and like, yeah, I can't say
enough that's her.

Speaker 1 (01:33:57):
Yeah, yeah, that's the majority opinion. And it feels like
everybody's like, just she's uh. And it's like you just
hear about other like number ones on call sheets who
are just assholes, and you're like, but look at the
longest running live action show on television is run by
this person that most people are like, she's the best
person ever. So it obviously can lead to success. You

(01:34:19):
don't have to be a dick, but I'm obviously mostly
talking about men. I feel like that's around when she
started directing. That might have been because I remember her
directing into like the twenty in the seasons in the twenties,
but like that might have been one of her first
directorial forays.

Speaker 3 (01:34:36):
You know how was We're you know the boy playing
a rapist.

Speaker 6 (01:34:40):
That was funny.

Speaker 7 (01:34:41):
We sort of it was like, I feel like, not
what you would normally hear about an assault, assault a victim,
sort of actor dynamic. But we talked so much about
I think, especially being adults, like trying to find the
innocence of being kids, and even the you.

Speaker 6 (01:35:01):
Know, from his perspective, like what he was going through.

Speaker 7 (01:35:05):
And I think the way the way it was sort
of put together, like we we really want it, and
Mirish I think really wanted to create a lot of
ambiguity and a lot of grayness, and because that's so
often the reality that you know, if people don't fall
into a specific type of victimhood, it's just it doesn't

(01:35:27):
count or something. And also just you know, not in
the like, oh, whose life is ruined? What a you know,
poor victim in that way, but just in the system
of toxic masculinity and how that is horrible for boys too.

Speaker 1 (01:35:45):
And yeah, that that episode is based on something that
happened at Saint Paul's, the boarding school that was like
highly publicized and it was like very similar of like
the guy dressing like a boy, like with the you like,
putting on like the Harry Potter look or whatever, like
the guy and the real thing did that as well,

(01:36:06):
which kind of shows how lawyers and parents like made
everything so complicated in the episode as well, you know,
because the difference in the real case, I think is
that the kid in the real case did not come
from a ton of money, so he was always like
a little bit of a fish out of water at
the school I think as well, But.

Speaker 3 (01:36:23):
Not in this episode.

Speaker 1 (01:36:24):
Right, this guy's he's got he's got a he's got
a really, really Protestant looking mom, so I can tell
you real bossy parents when.

Speaker 7 (01:36:33):
She's like ye wow, is that like I mean, honestly,
from that, I just remember Marshca like telling me what
like a great job I was doing, which is like, yeah,
it just just like the speaks to I remember she
said something about like, oh, like you're you're so natural,
like you're you know, like you're raising the bar or something.

(01:36:55):
This sounds like I'm really tooting my own horn, but
I just but but I'm tooting I'm tooting her horn
because I think that's like, as an actor, you really
need to hear that stuff like in real time, just
to like let go of the voice that's.

Speaker 6 (01:37:12):
Constantly telling you you're a piece of shit, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:37:17):
And yeah, I just think like she gave so much
of that like affirmation that it just like allowed us
to just be. But yeah, no, it's just it's something
I've been thinking a lot about as like I've started
working with actors and as a.

Speaker 2 (01:37:36):
Director, So tell us about that. What are you up to?

Speaker 7 (01:37:40):
So I wrote and directed my first short film, like
this past fall, I produced a feature film that's gonna
be premiering at a festival that I don't think is
officially announced yet, but it's very exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:37:55):
Okay, what's the name of the movie, just we can
keep an eye out for it. Yeah, it's called Honest
on a String.

Speaker 3 (01:38:01):
Okay.

Speaker 7 (01:38:02):
So yeah, I love acting and I love telling stories
in that way, but I've also fallen in love with
with directing, and it's been really cool seeing you know,
obviously today that's just such a norm actors, directing, writing,
et cetera.

Speaker 6 (01:38:21):
But it's funny like looking back and even.

Speaker 7 (01:38:25):
You know, when I started, it was it wasn't really
as much of a thing, you know, especially for women.

Speaker 2 (01:38:32):
And did you continue watching SU after you did your episode,
like as a family or did it kind of change everything?

Speaker 6 (01:38:42):
That's a good question.

Speaker 7 (01:38:43):
I remember we because we were religious about it, like
every week, you know, I had a dance to the
theme song, and after the first time I was on it,
we just sort of stopped and we didn't have a Sasiz.

Speaker 1 (01:38:58):
Made you lost the magic? Yeah it did. Did you
watch your episode?

Speaker 2 (01:39:04):
Of course your family and how did your fai like
parents react to seeing you in this. I mean, your
mom was on set.

Speaker 6 (01:39:09):
But my parents are really funny. They were I think
they were just.

Speaker 7 (01:39:16):
Like Yeah, like that's our girl, Like that's our girl,
like walking in such our daughter's passion.

Speaker 3 (01:39:27):
Yeah, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:39:29):
Well wait, I have to ask you obviously about your
big break film, Little Manhattan, that I don't know. The
Internet says that you just you just booked this off
of an open call? Is that factual? Because the Internet
lies all the time?

Speaker 7 (01:39:44):
Good question, because yeah, I do feel like there are
so many sort of fictional pr stories out there, but.

Speaker 6 (01:39:53):
This one was wildly true.

Speaker 2 (01:39:57):
Wait, what is the first stutted movie?

Speaker 3 (01:40:00):
Oh my gosh, I can't wait to see this.

Speaker 1 (01:40:02):
This movie, Lisa, I thought you would like. I thought
it's got Cynthia Nixon our face.

Speaker 3 (01:40:06):
I'm looking at it right now.

Speaker 1 (01:40:07):
Yeah. And Bradley Whitford, Willie Garson from Another City. Yeah,
we've had Josh pa Us on the podcast We're Gonna
Get Bradley Whitford one day and Josh Hutcherts. Did I
mean it's like star studded. Wait, this is so cute.
I need to see this. So I remember this movie
coming out and seeing like a clip of it or.

Speaker 2 (01:40:28):
The preview of Dylan's candy Bar shirt and this picture. Yeah,
it's so amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:40:34):
I remember because your character's name is Rosemary, and that's
my mom's name.

Speaker 3 (01:40:38):
And I was like, isn't that that's so sweet? A
little girl with my mom's name or.

Speaker 1 (01:40:41):
Whatever, Like it just stuck in my head because of that,
And also I think I lived in Manhattan by this time,
but that this movie came out, but I was like, wow,
it must be so cool to be a kid in Manhattan.
But you also wore a kid in Manhattan, So tell
us about like making this.

Speaker 5 (01:40:58):
Yeah, I I think it was really The writer directors
were a husband and wife, lovely, awesome, cool team and
they I think really it was one of those examples
of in casting, it's like you can look for the
actor who is the best.

Speaker 7 (01:41:18):
Actor, or the person or the person the actor who's
the person you know.

Speaker 6 (01:41:24):
I'm saying that in a weird, convoluted way.

Speaker 1 (01:41:26):
But.

Speaker 7 (01:41:29):
Yeah, it was like a weird I my aunt in
Long Island saw ad in the newspaper for an open
call audition and mistakenly thought it was an American girl
doll movie, okay, and.

Speaker 6 (01:41:40):
I was into American girl dolls.

Speaker 7 (01:41:43):
And I remember I couldn't like make the open call
because I had a piano recital or something. But I
made like this collage because I had never I had
never auditioned before. I had never I didn't have an
agent or anything. I just like made a clause of
like different photos of myself and it was like Meet
Charlie because I was like sort of channeling American girl.

Speaker 6 (01:42:02):
Anyway.

Speaker 7 (01:42:03):
It was not it had nothing to do with American
girl dolls, but anyway, it was like, you know, a
million They had already cast Josh. He was like seasoned
veteran already by then, and I think they just wanted
a girl who was like just a real New York
you know, I.

Speaker 6 (01:42:20):
Grew up downtowns.

Speaker 7 (01:42:21):
It was very different, but I think they just wanted
like a.

Speaker 6 (01:42:27):
A real New York City kid or something.

Speaker 7 (01:42:30):
And it was again, I mean, I was definitely I
definitely realized it was not a normal thing at the time.

Speaker 6 (01:42:38):
But you know, as I as I got older, as
I realized.

Speaker 8 (01:42:42):
What a shit storm of a difficult you know, profession
and auditioning and all that stuff it was, I definitely
sort of fell into a once in a lifetime sort
of experience.

Speaker 6 (01:43:02):
And then I you know, I just like rolled up
to set and of course, like my first day.

Speaker 7 (01:43:07):
On set was shooting with Cynthia Nixon, and as I mentioned,
my parents let me watch anything, so I had already
been watching Sex in the City by that I was
like a huge fan and I was.

Speaker 6 (01:43:18):
I threw up because I was so nervous, and I
was just like, oh my god, what's going on?

Speaker 7 (01:43:25):
But yeah, it was just like really fun and I
just did it and then it was like, Okay, I
guess I like acting.

Speaker 3 (01:43:31):
That's wow.

Speaker 1 (01:43:33):
And then do you and your little on screen boyfriend,
Josh Hutchardson keep in touch.

Speaker 6 (01:43:39):
No, I haven't talked to Josh in a while. That
would be. That would be I remember, like I was also.

Speaker 7 (01:43:52):
I had later done a pilot that was like never
picked up a CBS pilot, and Jennifer Lawrence was in
the pilot as well, like just a day player role
like as my friend or something and humble brag.

Speaker 6 (01:44:08):
But I just remember like being in college.

Speaker 7 (01:44:12):
I went to Northwestern, I majored in theater, and I
was like struggling to get cast in, you know, my
the student theater production that I wanted, and then I
remember it was the same time, like Hunger Games were
blowing up, and it was like.

Speaker 6 (01:44:30):
Josh Utterson and Jennifer Lords, and I was like, I
made a huge mistake. Oh god, yeah, but yeah I was.

Speaker 7 (01:44:42):
I was his first kiss. And I hope that's not
my biggest claim to fame in life.

Speaker 1 (01:44:46):
Oh but it's so you like, I don't know, you're
so cute in that, You're so like like that.

Speaker 3 (01:44:52):
I just remember the cover of it so well.

Speaker 1 (01:44:54):
Also, I just looked up that married couple that wrote
and directed it really quickly and they co created Big Mouth,
Huge hitch show that's out now.

Speaker 6 (01:45:04):
Yes, crazy and Jennifer back from.

Speaker 1 (01:45:07):
Two sweet little kids walking around New York falling in
love to kids humping pillows and one of the most
pervy shows out there. I know, that's so funny.

Speaker 6 (01:45:19):
They were, they're they're they're awesome. They're so cool.

Speaker 3 (01:45:22):
This is so exciting. Yeah, so much.

Speaker 1 (01:45:27):
About this film you made when you were just a baby. This,
I mean this episode of TV you made and the movie. Yeah,
to meet Belinda, I am thrilled. Belinda whole passion forever. Well,
she was delightful to love a city kid that she's

(01:45:48):
loved talking to. I love talking to a city a
city kid, Yeah, Manhattan kid. She's getting into directing. We
need more ladies behind the camera tooo, so the female
show runner at SVU and we got Charlotte ray Rosenberg
behind the camp camera now.

Speaker 2 (01:46:02):
Well, and to give a shout out to the survival
of the thickest seventy percent women and people of color crew.
So that's cool, yes, huge, yes, yeah, and it's like
a great set to be a yeah yeah yeah. Women
directors killing it. Oh my god, that's episode horrific. What

(01:46:24):
I can't stop singing where in the middle of a
hot stop take over.

Speaker 3 (01:46:30):
Yeah, it's so good. I sing it like all day long.

Speaker 2 (01:46:34):
As ye lady in office this episode. Oh this is
too late. I wonder if married women are gonna have
the right to vote or not. We'll see. We'll talk
about it next intro. The vote's happening. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:46:48):
Also the head of like, now we're just gonna start
like reporting all this like it's funny.

Speaker 3 (01:46:52):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:46:52):
The head of Congress, the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson,
just made sure that if you're in Congress and you
just had a baby, you cannot vote remotely. They do
not want anybody voting remote people.

Speaker 2 (01:47:04):
People have been bringing their babies, but you.

Speaker 1 (01:47:06):
Better get you better pack up, put your diaper on
and get your ass to DC after you've given birth,
something that a man could never fucking do.

Speaker 2 (01:47:15):
And so yeah, but yeah, so if your birth certificate
doesn't change, doesn't bet your ID, and you don't have
a passport, you're not gonna be able to vote the
Party of Family Values.

Speaker 3 (01:47:28):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:47:28):
Anyway, Uh, this episode wild, this episode crazy. As we
said always, I'll never forget that fucking tattoo as long.

Speaker 3 (01:47:38):
As I live.

Speaker 1 (01:47:38):
It's literally part of the logo of my kids school,
Like it's like a little pawprint, and every time I
see it, I'm like, that looks like the fucking underbelly tattoo.
But oh, we gotta keep we gotta keep these teen
girls away from these fucking bad guys.

Speaker 3 (01:47:55):
We gotta.

Speaker 2 (01:47:57):
I felt so bad for Belinda. She was between to
rock in a hard place.

Speaker 1 (01:48:01):
She can't go back to Ohio, she can't be with
a pimp who's got himself wrapped up inside of a
sleeper sofa.

Speaker 2 (01:48:07):
Yeah. I'm honestly just thinking about the women voting now,
I know, Zara.

Speaker 1 (01:48:13):
I threw a wrench in to the post mortem this
week for what would Sister Peg Do? We're our weekly
segment where we direct you towards an organization and article,
a book, whatever we are going to point you to
Protect All Children from Trafficking. This is an organization called
Protect All Children from Trafficking abbreviated to PACKED. This is
the first US organization to focus on the commercial sexual

(01:48:35):
exploitation of children. They offer educational initiatives, legislative advocacy, and
resources for endangered youths in you know, in honor of
Belinda and for more info or to donate, go to
we arepacked dot org. And that will of course be
in our show notes and shared in our Instagram stories
the day this episode comes out and then saved forever
in our WWSPD highlights on our Instagram, which is that

(01:48:58):
s Messed Up Pod.

Speaker 3 (01:48:59):
Give us a follow, thank you so.

Speaker 2 (01:49:00):
Much, and next week we'll be doing the episode Terrorized,
Season eighteen, Episode one, don Dove.

Speaker 3 (01:49:09):
Thank you guys so much for listening. We love you bye.

Speaker 2 (01:49:20):
That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (01:49:23):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
it That's messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:49:35):
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.

Speaker 1 (01:49:43):
As always, please see our show notes for sources and
more information.

Speaker 2 (01:49:47):
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and.

Speaker 1 (01:49:53):
To our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner,
and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at
Exactly Right Media.

Speaker 2 (01:50:08):
Dun dun

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Kara Klenk

Liza Treyger

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Underbelly w/ Charlotte Ray Rosenberg