October 25, 2025 • 36 mins
1. Christian Persecution in Nigeria
Senator Cruz highlights what he describes as a massive and underreported crisis involving the persecution of Christians in Nigeria. Key points include:
- Over 50,000 Christians killed since 2009.
- 18,000 churches and 2,000 schools burned, allegedly by extremist groups like Boko Haram and ISIS in West Africa.
- Accusations that some Nigerian government officials are complicit or negligent in addressing the violence.
- Cruz has introduced legislation to designate Nigeria as a “Country of Particular Concern” and impose sanctions on individual officials involved in or ignoring the persecution.
- He criticizes the mainstream media for failing to cover the issue adequately.
- Public figures like Bill Maher and Van Jones are cited as supporting the claim that this is a planned genocide and that media silence is a moral failure.
2. Christian Persecution in China
This section shifts to a similar story:
- The Chinese Communist Party’s crackdown on Christianity, particularly targeting Pastor Jin Mingri and the Zion Church.
- Cruz introduced a bipartisan resolution with Senator Chris Coons condemning China’s actions and urging the release of imprisoned pastors.
- He emphasizes the need for economic and diplomatic pressure, especially with President Trump’s upcoming meeting with President Xi Jinping.
- The resolution calls for respect for religious freedom and highlights China’s long-standing designation as a “Country of Particular Concern” by the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom.
3. DOJ Surveillance of Republican Senators
Cruz discusses revelations that:
- The Biden DOJ and Special Counsel Jack Smith subpoenaed phone records of nine Republican senators and one House member in connection with the January 6 investigation.
- Cruz’s phone records were requested from AT&T, but the company refused to comply, citing constitutional protections under the Speech and Debate Clause.
- He frames this as political persecution and a dangerous abuse of power, likening it to Watergate.
- He calls for Congressional hearings and transparency to prevent future surveillance of elected officials.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It is Verdict with Ted Cruz, the week in Review,
Ben Ferguson with you, and here are some big stories
that you may have missed that we talked about. First up,
the killing of Christians in Nigeria is happening at a
shocking rate. The media and the world not talking about it.
We're going to shine a light on it and make
sure that you know what you can do to help. Also,
(00:22):
there is a crackdown on Christians in China. Why is
this happening around the world. We'll give you the details
on that and how we can also use our US
government to help stop it. And finally, we now know
what the Biden administration was doing when it comes as
spying on conservatives, including even more members of Congress. This
(00:43):
time they ask for the phone records and text messages
of Senator Ted Cruz.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It's the Weekend Review and it starts right now.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
And I want to move now center to something that
you've been spearheading and leading on. It's certainly not getting
attention media, but you're wanting to hold Nigeria accountable for
the fifty thousand Let me see that number again, fifty
thousand Christians that have been killed there, explain why this
story is so important and what you're trying to do,
(01:16):
and also why is no one covering this?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Does this been described to me?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Look, it is truly horrific. The numbers are stunning. The
numbers are staggering. Here are the top line numbers of
what we're seeing. We have seen over fifty thousand Christians killed.
We have seen over eighteen thousand churches and at least
(01:40):
two thousand schools burned. And the response to this, the
Nigerian government is fighting back ferociously saying this is not happening,
this is not true.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
There's a battle.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
The Nigerian government officials are getting very angry that I'm
calling them out. I want to read to you from
the executive summary of the U S State Department's twenty
twenty four Country Report on Human Rights Practices in Nigeria,
and here's what it says.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Quote.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Significant human rights issues included credible reports of arbitrary and
unlawful killings, disappearances, torture or cruel inhuman or degrading treatment
or punishment, arbitrary arrest or attention, serious abuses in a conflict,
Serious restrictions on freedom of expression and media freedom. Including
(02:34):
violence or threats of violence against journalists, violence or threats
against labor activists or union members, and significant presence of
any of the worst forms of child labor. Non state
actors committed arbitrary and unlawful killings, disappearances, physical abuse, and
other mistreatments. Boko Haram and the Islamic State in West
(02:55):
Africa continued attacks on civilians, military, police, humanitarian and religious targets,
unlawfully recruited and forcibly conscripted child soldiers, and carried out
scores of attacks on population centers in the North East regions.
(03:15):
Abductions by Bukoharram and the Islamic State in West Africa continued.
Both groups subjected many women and girls to gender based violence,
including forced marriage, sexual slavery, and rape. This is what's
going on in Nigeria right now, and it is going
(03:38):
on far too often with the acquiescence of the elected
government officials. Far too often and in some instances, you
have provinces in Nigeria that have on the books blasphemy
law and Sharia law, and they will secute Christians for blasphemy.
(04:02):
They will plot prosecute Christians for violating Sharia law in
which case, the government becomes a tool of the persecution
of Christians. And look it is, it is devastating. It
is the most Christians being murdered anywhere on the face
of the planet is happening in Nigeria. And so I
(04:28):
introduce legislation to require the Secretary of State to designate
Nigeria as a country of particular concern and to impose sanctions,
including in particular sanctioning the individual government officials. So if
you're a local official and you're enforcing blasphemy laws in
Sharia laws, and you're persecuting Christians, or you're turning the
(04:49):
other way and turning a blind eye to Christians being
murdered at in mass numbers, the result of my legislation
would be each of those individual government officials would face sanctions.
And I got to say, the Nigerian government has been
pushing back ferociously. For example, the Chairman of the House
(05:10):
Committee on Foreign Affairs, Olke said the Cruse Bill is
quote a deliberate attempt to damage the Nigerian image, and
he insists Nigeria is a very tolerant country. Well other
than murdering fifty thousand Christians, very tolerant other than that. Likewise,
the Minister of Information and National Orientation, Mohammed Idris, rejected
(05:36):
the suggestion that quote any Nigerian officials will willingly deliberately
indulge in the act of siding with violent extremists to
target any particular religion in the country. Likewise, Presidential spokesperson
on Anungo demanded that Cruz stop his quote malicious and
(05:57):
contrived lies against quote my country. And finally, Senate President
God's Will Akpabillo cautioned against framing the crisis quote along
religious lines since quote terrorists and bandits target Nigerians indiscriminately,
(06:20):
regardless of faith. Now listen, it is certainly true that
Bukoharam and other religious radicals in Nigeria are killing Muslims
as well. They're killing both. But they are systematically targeting
Christians for mass murder. When you've got fifty thousand Christians
being murdered, that is not accidental, that is not random.
And the over eighteen thousand churches and the over two
(06:41):
thousand schools, they're singling out and targeting Christian churches and
Christian schools and burning them to the ground. And the
Government of Nigeria's not acting with any vigor at all
to defend and to defend the Christians or just to
keep them alive.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, to keep them alive.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
And so now obviously this is about letting it shining
a light on this, and then you go back to
the policy aspect of this, what happens next and for
people specifically that are listening, what do they need to
be doing and advocating for to make sure that we
can move this forward.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Look, the next step needs to be that I'm pushing
for the Congress to pass my legislation. I'm on the
Senate Foreign Relations Committee, so I'm pressing for the Senate
Foreign Relations Committee to take it up that would designate
Nigeria as a country of particular concern. Now, I would
note the Trump administration can do so on its own,
(07:39):
and this is often the case in foreign policy areas,
where I'll introduce legislation and I'll push for action. So,
for example, I've introduced legislation to designate the Muslim Brotherhood
is a terrorist organization. I've done so repeatedly in multiple congresses.
I think it is unequivocally a terrorist organization. In fact,
Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood hamas Is
(08:01):
is the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine is what they call themselves,
and that has not yet happened. But I would like
to see Congress pass my legislation. But the most likely
way we'll get the Muslim Brotherhood designated is that I
will succeed in convincing President Trump and the Trump administration
to do so. And I've been making that case vigorously.
(08:21):
With respect to Nigeria, the same thing is true. I'm
going to try to pass the legislation, but I'm also
very much making the case to the Trump administration. They
have the authority to do it now. And look, I
want to point out you asked what people can do.
Speak out highlight fifty thousand Christians massacred since two thousand
and nine, the single greatest mass slaughter of Christians anywhere
(08:43):
in the world. And look here's how Fox News put it.
Quote a diplomatic battle as being waged between leading Republican
Senator Ted Cruz and Nigerian government officials. The Texas senators
has warned he will hold them accountable for the reported
mass slaughter of tens of things thousands of Christians in Nigeria.
The official SA Cruz is lying with one claiming that
(09:04):
despite even the Pope publicly calling out the killings, there
is religious harmony in the country. But you know what,
maybe you don't believe me, Maybe you don't believe the Pope.
So if the Pope and I are both wrong, how
about this, maybe maybe you'll believe Bill Maher. You have
(09:25):
a listen to what Bill Maher had to say on
this topic.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
If you don't know what's going on in Nigeria, your
media sources suck. You are in a bubble. And again,
I'm not a Christian, but they are systematically killing the
Christians in Nigeria. They've killed over one hundred thousand since
two thousand and nine. They've burned eighteen thousand churches. This
is so much more. These are the Islamis Fokoha ram.
(09:48):
This is so much more of a genocide attempt than
what is going on in Gaza. They are literally attempting
to wipe out the Christian population of an entire country.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Where are the kids protesting this?
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Very Still.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
No one will talk about it, so thank you.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Absolutely it's Africa.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
That's what no one's talking about it and they should be.
Speaker 6 (10:11):
You can't read about it on mainstream media it's sad.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
So thank you for bringing the.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
Jews aren't involved. That's why what's the Christians and the.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Muslims two players? He is exactly right, and I appreciate
Bill Maher calling it out and shining a light on it.
He's right that that that that the corporate media does
not want to cover it. And by the way, on
that same show, uh, someone you know, well, Van Jones
from CNN. He was on that show. And Van Jones
(10:39):
is a very left wing guy and he's on CNN regularly.
But but but he commented and and and he chimed
in agreeing with Bill Maher. Here give a listen to
Van Jones talking talking about the slaughter of Christians in Nigeria.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
You're talking about young people. A lot of them seem
to know one thing. White people did some very bad
things in this world, and they certainly did. But there
are other things.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
To know, and including the fact that in Sudan right now,
which nobody is talking about, you have Arab militia murdering
people by the wheelbarrow, including the fact that Africa right
now is being overrun by Islamis terrasts including look, Rob
with no conversation about that at all.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
I did it last week. Nigeria.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah, I mean this is an.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Actual planned genocide. Yes, I mean they really want to
kill all the Christians in that country and they are
systematically doing it.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
And the fact that there's almost no response from the
global left and no attention from mainstream media is a
crime against African people, black people, and human rights. I
agree with that one hundred percent. It turns out that
there's a double standard for Jews. That is true. No Jews,
no news. As long as you can put the Jewish
(11:46):
state in the conversation, it's going to be a big conversation.
If you can't, you get no attention at all. This
is a big problem. It is a big problem. I
mean you hear Van Jones saying it. Yep, he is correct.
It is a huge problem. No use, no news. I mean,
it's amazing that this is happening.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Look, we see the protest on college campuses. We see
these angry leftists who are completely enraged about Gaza. The
instant President Trump negotiates a peace deal, they go away.
Now Hamas is executing Palestinians on the street, lighting up
Palestinians on their knees, shooting them in the back of
the head, and not a peep. These leftist radicals, they
(12:25):
are perfectly fine with Palestinians being systematically murdered as long
as it's Palestinians. As long as Hamas doing the murder.
You don't see a protest, you don't see and he
calls a genocide. Their protest is about one thing, which
is they hate Israel and they hate Jews. And I
got to say, where is ABC, where is CBS, Where
(12:47):
is NBC? Where's CNN and MSNBC, Where's the New York Times?
Where's the Washington Post? About the mass murder of over
fifty thousand Christians in Nigeria.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Now, if you want to hear the rest of this conversation,
you can go back and listen to the full podcast
from earlier this week. Now onto story number two center.
It's time for us to talk about China. And a
lot of people are talking about the economic issues with China,
sanctions and tariffs. The subject we're about to talk about
is what I hope people share everywhere on social media.
(13:20):
This is why we do this show, and it's so important,
and this is what's happening in China, cracking down on Christianity,
right now and is not being talked about enough well.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Communist China has a terrible record when it comes to
religious liberty and religious persecution, and in particular the persecution
of Christians, and China has for decades persecuted Christians in China,
but recently they've been cracking down and it's been getting
worth So here's how I put it to Fox News
(13:52):
this week. The Chinese Communist Party is conducting yet another
sweeping crackdown on Christians, and they're again targeting Pastor Jin
and the Zion Church. The CCP fears anything it cannot
directly control, perhaps most of all faith. The United States
(14:13):
has powerful tools to provide protection and relief to people
facing persecution and violence, and we should use those tools
unless and until China releases the members of the Zion Church.
And what has happened is is China arrested several Christian leaders,
including the pastor of one of the country's biggest underground
(14:36):
evangelical church churches, and that's Pastor Jin Mingry, whose children
are US citizens. Grace Jin, who is Mingri's daughter, was
very kind but went out of her way to thank
me for fighting to release her father from prison and
here's what Grace Jen said. She said quote his efforts
(15:00):
demonstrate that the world is watching on as the Chinese
government unjustly imprisons pastors and church leaders for the peaceful
exercise of their faith. Thank you to the leaders here
and abroad for all the support and solidarity and CENTATR.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
This is I think the part that's so frustrating for
me and so many listening is this has been happening
for so long, and because so many countries do business
with China, they have deliberately looked the other way because
they're basically saying, Hey, we'd rather just get along and
do trade and get cheap Chinese goods and actually hold
them account for what they're doing to Christians.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Well, that's happening far too often.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
And we've discussed before on this podcast the persecution the
mass murder of Christians in Nigeria. Nigeria the most Christians
are murdered for their faith of any country on earth,
and I've been leading the effort to hold Nigeria do
account while in China. Likewise, for my entire time in
the Senate, I've been vocal speaking out for Christians being
persecuted in China and and this crackdown. Actually, next week
(16:04):
President Trump is is going to Asia and is gonna
gonna meet with with President She of China. And and so,
just this past week I introduced a bipartisan resolution condemning
China's persecution of Christians in particular and Pastor gen and
and and I was joined by Chris Coons. Chris is
(16:25):
a Democrat, uh and and and Chris is someone who
cares deeply about religious liberty. And so we joined together
with a bipartisan resolution calling on China to release Pastor Jin,
to stop targeting the Zion Church, to release the pastors
and the Christians who've been imprisoned, and and and to
cease engaging in persecution of religious liberty writ broadly, and
(16:49):
and of Christians in particular.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
It really is one of those it's that is frustrating.
And now this comes back to the issue of leverage.
Is this going to be enough leverage to poss We
see a change here, because one thing that we've learned
is China only responds when their pocketbook gets hurt. And
if they don't think we have the political will to
stand up for Christians, then they're going to continue to
persecute them.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
No matter what, that's just their mo.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
They are.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
But they respond to pressure. They respond to pressure in
two forms. Number one to being publicly called out, to
having light shine on their oppression. And number two, they
respond to economic leverage. And President Trump is very effective
at employing economic leverage. I think we should do both.
Our bipartisan resolution is aimed at quote, expressing condemnation of
(17:38):
the Chinese Communist parties persecution of Christians and reaffirming the
United States's global commitment to promote religious freedom and tolerance.
And it also includes a demand that the Chinese Communist
Party respect the human right to freedom of religion and
end all forms of violence and discrimination against religious minorities.
(18:01):
And the resolution notes the CCP's actions mark the largest
coordinated nationwide crackdown against a Christian urban house church in
more than forty years.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
It also notes that.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
The US Commission on International Religious Freedom designated China as
a country of quote particular concern for religious freedom every
single year since nineteen ninety eight, and Pastor Jin of
the Zion Church was detained by Chinese authorities, and indeed
(18:37):
that came as nearly thirty Zion Church pastors and workers
were likewise detained or went missing across Beijing, Senjing, Shanghai, Chendo, Behai, Jingshing,
and huang Do. And I apologize for my Chinese pronunciation.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I'll forgive you.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
But here's here's what Grace Jen said about this, and
she's Pastor Jen's daughter. One after another they were also
taken detained like they were saying that they were people
outside the doors. Then one at a time they were
taken into custody.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
This is wrong.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
And President Trump has an opportunity when he is in Asia,
when he is with President She, to call on President
She to release these pastors, release Pastor Jen, release the
Christians who are being persecuted, and stop persecuting people of faith.
And I think the United States has a responsibility to
(19:39):
be a voice for religious liberty across the country, to
defend Christians when they're persecuted, to defend Jews when they're persecuted,
to defend people of faith all across the world. You know,
you look at radical Islamic terrorists, many of them target
and persecute other Muslims who are not violent. And I
think religious persecut is wrong, regardless of who the victims are,
(20:04):
and we should be a voice for religious liberty. Now,
that doesn't mean that America should go and invade China
to try to break the pastor out of jail. But
there are lots of tools that the president can use,
including the bully pulpit of the presidency, including shining a light,
and including also economic leverage to try to stop this persecution.
(20:28):
And I very much hope President Trump will do so
in the coming week.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, you and I both hope that final question on this.
As you watch President Trump with pressure not just on
China but other countries, it does seem to be that
his foreign policy now is if there is a wrong
that needs to be discussed, it's going to be on
the table, front and center. That is pretty different from
what we've seen in past administrations where they're like, well,
(20:53):
maybe it's not the time to bring that up. Right now,
he seems to be willing to bring it all up.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
You're absolutely right, and strong American leadership can stand up
to tyrannies. The Soviet Union was terrified of Ronald Reagan.
That's how we won the Cold War without firing a shot,
and Communist China and our enemies across the globe are
terrified of Donald Trump and that's why we're seeing such
major national security improvements right.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Now as before.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
If you want to hear the rest of this conversation
on this topic, you can go back and dow the
podcasts from earlier this week to hear the entire thing.
I want to get back to the big story, number
three of the week. You may have missed, all right, senator,
So let's start with the big news. Where were you
when you found out that you respied on as part
(21:38):
of Jacksmith's investigation into Donald Trump. This clearly is a
fishing expedition. And what were you told? Have you been
briefed on this or are you just getting to say
mentel we are from reading it in the news.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
So I found out about this last week. Last Thursday.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
I got the information. And let's back up a couple
of weeks ago. A couple of weeks ago, the news
broke that x Smith, the prosecutor and the Biden DOJ
that was going after January sixth, that was going after
President Trump had subpoenaed eight senators and one Republican house
member and had gotten their cell phone records. And the
(22:14):
eight senators who had been subpoena were Marsha Blackburn, Ron Johnson,
Bill Haggerty, Josh Holly, Cynthia Lummis, Lindsey Graham, Dan Sullivan,
and Tommy Tuberville. And then Mike Kelly, a Republican House
member from Pennsylvania, was also subpoenaed. All nine of them
had their cell phone records handed over to the Biden
Department of Justice. Now, I got to admit just over
(22:37):
a week ago, Sean Hannity was in town and I
had dinner with Sean and with several of the senators
on that list as well, and I was laughing with Sean.
I was saying, I'm actually kind of offended, like how.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Did I get lift out of this list? Like what
did I have to do? You know?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
I was literally standing on the Senate floor on January sixth,
objecting and leading the fight, and I had brought together
eleven senators to stand together in fighting for an election
commission to assess the evidence of voter fraud, and including
many of the senators who were subpoena were in the
(23:18):
group that I'd brought together. So I was joking with Sean,
but I wasn't entirely joking. Well, it turns out the
reason I was not on the list is apparently all
eight of those senators. Their cell phones are with Verizon,
and the evidence had come out that Verizon had handed
over their cell phone information. Well, my cell phone is
with AT and T and I didn't know it at
(23:39):
the time, but I found out late last week that
Jack Smith sent a subpoena at AT and T demanding my
cell phone records, and AT and T told him to
go jump in lake. AT and T did not give
my cell phone records. I really look AT and T
is based in Texas. I'm proud of them. They did
the right thing. I appreciate that, and and they assessed it.
(24:03):
They had a subpoena from Jack Smith. By the way,
the subpoena called for quote, detailed records for inbound and
outbound calls, text messages, direct connect and voicemail messages, among
other things. So they were seeking that. There was an
also an order from Judge Boseburg, who was you know this,
(24:26):
This left wing judge has been presiding against over much
of the litigation against against Trump, had an order from
Judge Boseburg ordering AT and T you cannot disclose to
Cruise that we're seeking his cell phone information for a year.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Isn't that amazing, By the way, and you're sitting unin
State Center, don't tell him, we don't want him to know.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yes, And so AT and T examined it, and they
actually they came to the conclusion. Now, the way it works,
so the subpoena just comes and and they get a
cell phone number. So so so the Biden DOJ didn't
identify who they were seeking. And and by the way, look,
the telecom companies typically if they get a subpoena for
(25:09):
for phone records on a number, they typically hand it
over because it's usually a drug dealer or a criminal.
You have a subpoena that's issued from a grand jury,
so so it it they will routinely in a criminal
proceeding hand over.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Well, it's so happened that that AT and T even
though they just asked for the number, they looked and
realized whose number it was, and and and that they
talked with their legal team and and and they said, listen,
what what Cruz is saying is it and any member
of Congress, what they're saying is protected by the Speech
and Debate Clause of the Constitution. The Constitution uh protects
(25:45):
the ability of of of Senators and House members to
engage in debate to to do our jobs. Article one
of the Constitution vests all legislative power in the Congress.
And and in fact, we you know on January it
was very literally speech in debate. As I said, I
was standing on the Senate floor, Yeah, giving a speech
(26:06):
and raising an objection. So it's literally the heart of
what one does as an elected member of Congress. And
so at and T concluded, listen there, we're not going
to comply. As I said, I'm grateful for At and
T doing that, but that now makes it nine senators
that we know of and one House.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
So I'm guessing there might be other senators that were
also at At and T and they probably said no, we're
not going to do that either. Right, it would be
Verizon just caved instantly and said, sure, here's everybody you're
asking for. There could be easily, I would say, another four, five,
six others. Who knows how many outside the Senate right
that they could have asked for that they could have
said no to as well. And I would assume there
was a lot of people on At and.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
T well, And look the Biden doj also after the
Republican Attorney General's Association. It went after Turning Point USA.
This was a massive fishing expedition and this was a
political persecution.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Understand.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Jack Smith was appointed Special Counsel to investigate and prosecute
January sixth, three days after Donald Trump announced his campaign
for reelection in twenty twenty four, literally three days later,
so it was twenty twenty two, So it was two
years after January sixth. They had not appointed anyone, and
yet suddenly when Trump announces his campaign, they rushed to
(27:25):
appoint Jack Smith to say, go after Donald Trump because
we want to stop the voters from.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Voting for him.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Sure, but nine senators, that is twenty percent of the
Republicans in the United States Senate. And I got to
say for the executive branch to engage in wholesale spying
on their political opponents and spying with let's be clear,
none of us engaged in criminal conduct. None of us
(27:53):
can engage in anything remotely criminal, arguably criminal. This was
political persecution. This was snooping. This is hoping. Someone said something.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I was going to ask you, what were they hoping
to find?
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Right?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Like you go fishing and what what is this smoking gun?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
In that scenario they were they were just, hey, we'll
just go after all these conservatives and maybe we get lucky.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Look, I don't know what they were hoping to find,
but but but they were asking for the cell phone
records from from January fourth to January seventh, so all
surrounding January sixth. I assumed they were looking for some
some modicum of coordination, uh with with with those who
engage in active violence on that day. Part of their
(28:39):
theory was was the alternate electors that were being sent
from various states. So I assumed they were looking for
some modicum of coordination there. But this was a political
prosecution because they did not have evidence. And so they said, well,
let's let's go through their cell phone records and see
if we can find something. And by the way, who
(28:59):
knows if if somebody had sent something stupid a text,
had a voicemail, had you know, I mean people when
you go through someone's emails, when you go through someone's
cell phones, when prosecutors go looking for a crime, the
nature of a fishing expedition is, let's go look around.
(29:21):
You know, there's a book that was written decades ago.
Uh that that that that's called three felonies a day,
and and it talks about how the average American commits
three felonies a day, that that in our regulatory state,
things are so complicated, things are so mired in complexity
that that that you can violate you know, you you
step on a wetland in your backyard. And and and
(29:43):
you know there's an old line that a prosecutor can
indict a ham sandwich. Yeah, that that a prosecutor goes
in front of a grand jury. When a prosecutor goes
in front of a grand jury, you know, there's no
defense attorney there. It's just the prosecutor and members of
the grand jury. And so I don't know what they
were looking for. I think they were looking for anything
that could stick because this was a political prosecution. Let
(30:06):
me ask you this if and so Ben, I just
want to say, I'm really grateful they did not find
the pictures you send to me of you in a
pink too too, because I just think that it's not criminal.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
All the league jokes that I send you about the
Ivy League snobs. I mean, Jack Smith probably ended up
going to one of those places that could have been
very bad for me.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
I it you know it would have been.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
And I got to say, just the typos and misspellings
that that that you have in your text, that that
alone would.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Have been a little bit embarrassing too. So I'm glad
none of that game.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
News is they're very hard to decipher when you're if there,
if it's in front of you know, Congress, like it's
what was been really trying to say, And I'm like,
you're welcome.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
I will tell you bet.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I think I talked to AT and T today and
I said, look, you guys got to start a marketing
campaign of shift to AT and T.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
We'll we'll protect your Yeah, we're like to them.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Look, I I don't have a good answer to that.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
But but but but I did. Uh.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
And I didn't know about this until just a few
days ago. So this was when the first news broke.
I like, I was joking that I felt excluded, but
it wasn't entirely a joke. And and then I was like, oh, okay,
that makes sense, and uh, and here.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
We are, all right if I don't question on this,
what is gonna be the response from Congress? Will there
be any to this or is this just old administration
abuse of power?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
It is what it is.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
We're going to move on or is there going to
be a way to make sure like we have standards
of this is not allowed to happen and that people
are held accountable for this.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Look, I think we're going to see hearings. I think
we've we've we've got hearings coming in the House. I
think we'll see hearings in the Senate. I will tell
you the nine of us who were targeted, we're we're
talking to each other because we want to prevent this.
We want to prevent a subsequent DOJ from doing this,
from spying on their political opponents, particularly in in Congress.
(32:02):
The executive doesn't have the ability to go engage in
spying on on members of the opposing party in Congress.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
That is an.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Abuse of power. It is it is politicization.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
And and this that this entire effort, So so this
prosecution was called Arctic Frost. And and I think this
is going to be the watergate of the Biden d
o J. I think it is a demonstration that Jack
Smith was a partisan prosecutor who was drunk on power
and and and and I don't believe Jack Smith made
(32:38):
this decision on his own. I think the decision making
goes all the way up. I think it goes up
to the Attorney General. I think it goes up to
the White House. And and so I expect number one
some some real investigation and hopefully transparency in terms of
who approved let's go spy on members of Congress and
and and and and that that I think we're going
to work to have some real transparent and on and
(33:00):
that I think we're gonna look at real and concrete
steps we can take to make sure this never happens again,
because this kind of there is there a.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Part of you that just thinks like maybe this has
just been going on and never really stopped. After after
you know, the the the famous FBI director that had
you know, files on everybody, and and people said, well,
we won't have that again, after after Jagger, and and
now it's like they're just like they wild West. You
can do what the hell you want to if you're
(33:27):
a Democrat and you're in charge, Like we can spawn
in the present, we can spy the campaigns. We can
go after people in the situation room and the trap them.
We can try to go after their business associates and
their kids and get them to turn against them, like
Eric Trump was talking about that on our.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Show the day.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
If you missed that show, people should go back and
listen to He's like they were literally trying to turn
Donald Trump's own children against him, threatening that your life's
gonna be over and you're gonna be in jail, so
you better get a get out of jail free card.
And now it's like yeah, and we were also spaying
on senators. I'm assuming some congressmen will come out like
who knows who's there? We I mean, Charlie Kirk said
(34:01):
recently before assassination. It came out that he said during
the campaign, we either win the campaign or I may
go to jail. I actually believe now witnessing what we've
seen that that's not far off from reality at all.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Look, the left was willing to weaponize the Department of
Justice and the FBI. As you know, I wrote an
entire book entitled Justice Corrupted, How the Left is weaponized
our legal system, and it talked about it actually started
with Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon tried to do that and
and you look at some of the some of the
hair brain schemes that the Nixon Justice Department came up with,
(34:36):
including creating underground stings to to get people, to get
people on film taking drugs and with prostitutes to use
to essentially blackmail them and to go after their political opponents.
I mean, it was grotesque abuse of power. And when
that came to light, we actually saw an improvement. And
(34:57):
there were a couple of decades where I think this
this receded and occurred far less. And then what Richard
Nixon tried to do to the justice system, Barack Obama
succeeded in doing. He came in as this this almost
messiah figure and and and do o j Eric Holders
(35:18):
Attorney General. You had Lois Learner at the IRS. They
began targeting their political opponents, targeting targeting anyone that they
disagreed with, and also protecting their friends. During the Trump
administration the first term, they went underground, but they waged
war on the president. These are the people that created
fraudulent documents submitted to the FISA Court in order to
(35:39):
in order to try to go after President Trump. They
wanted to reverse the results of the twenty sixteen election
because they were furious that the American people elected Trump.
And then during Biden they were opened, they were flagrant,
they were out in the open, and they were abusing
their power. And I think they felt that the ends
justified the means and and anything was acceptable, And so
(36:03):
I think we need to take real steps. Do I
think this has been going on forever?
Speaker 4 (36:07):
And ever? I don't. I certainly hope not. I'm not
aware that it has.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
There is there, there's ancient history, but it took really
I think, under Biden to make it just as as
viciously partisan as.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Well as Imma.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yes, yeah, it will's came off and no one cared
about the rules anymore.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Clearly, it's incredible.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
As always, thank you for listening to Verdict with Center
Ted Cruz Ben Ferguson with you don't forget to deal
with my podcast and you can listen to my podcast
every other day you're not listening to Verdict or each
day when you.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Listen to Verdict.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Afterwards, I'd love to have you as a listener to
again the Ben Ferguson podcasts, and we will see you
back here on Monday morning.
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It is Verdict with Ted Cruz, the week in Review,
Ben Ferguson with you, and here are some big stories
that you may have missed that we talked about. First up,
the killing of Christians in Nigeria is happening at a
shocking rate. The media and the world not talking about it.
We're going to shine a light on it and make
sure that you know what you can do to help. Also,
(00:22):
there is a crackdown on Christians in China. Why is
this happening around the world. We'll give you the details
on that and how we can also use our US
government to help stop it. And finally, we now know
what the Biden administration was doing when it comes as
spying on conservatives, including even more members of Congress. This
(00:43):
time they ask for the phone records and text messages
of Senator Ted Cruz.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It's the Weekend Review and it starts right now.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
And I want to move now center to something that
you've been spearheading and leading on. It's certainly not getting
attention media, but you're wanting to hold Nigeria accountable for
the fifty thousand Let me see that number again, fifty
thousand Christians that have been killed there, explain why this
story is so important and what you're trying to do,
(01:16):
and also why is no one covering this?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Does this been described to me?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Look, it is truly horrific. The numbers are stunning. The
numbers are staggering. Here are the top line numbers of
what we're seeing. We have seen over fifty thousand Christians killed.
We have seen over eighteen thousand churches and at least
(01:40):
two thousand schools burned. And the response to this, the
Nigerian government is fighting back ferociously saying this is not happening,
this is not true.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
There's a battle.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
The Nigerian government officials are getting very angry that I'm
calling them out. I want to read to you from
the executive summary of the U S State Department's twenty
twenty four Country Report on Human Rights Practices in Nigeria,
and here's what it says.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Quote.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Significant human rights issues included credible reports of arbitrary and
unlawful killings, disappearances, torture or cruel inhuman or degrading treatment
or punishment, arbitrary arrest or attention, serious abuses in a conflict,
Serious restrictions on freedom of expression and media freedom. Including
(02:34):
violence or threats of violence against journalists, violence or threats
against labor activists or union members, and significant presence of
any of the worst forms of child labor. Non state
actors committed arbitrary and unlawful killings, disappearances, physical abuse, and
other mistreatments. Boko Haram and the Islamic State in West
(02:55):
Africa continued attacks on civilians, military, police, humanitarian and religious targets,
unlawfully recruited and forcibly conscripted child soldiers, and carried out
scores of attacks on population centers in the North East regions.
(03:15):
Abductions by Bukoharram and the Islamic State in West Africa continued.
Both groups subjected many women and girls to gender based violence,
including forced marriage, sexual slavery, and rape. This is what's
going on in Nigeria right now, and it is going
(03:38):
on far too often with the acquiescence of the elected
government officials. Far too often and in some instances, you
have provinces in Nigeria that have on the books blasphemy
law and Sharia law, and they will secute Christians for blasphemy.
(04:02):
They will plot prosecute Christians for violating Sharia law in
which case, the government becomes a tool of the persecution
of Christians. And look it is, it is devastating. It
is the most Christians being murdered anywhere on the face
of the planet is happening in Nigeria. And so I
(04:28):
introduce legislation to require the Secretary of State to designate
Nigeria as a country of particular concern and to impose sanctions,
including in particular sanctioning the individual government officials. So if
you're a local official and you're enforcing blasphemy laws in
Sharia laws, and you're persecuting Christians, or you're turning the
(04:49):
other way and turning a blind eye to Christians being
murdered at in mass numbers, the result of my legislation
would be each of those individual government officials would face sanctions.
And I got to say, the Nigerian government has been
pushing back ferociously. For example, the Chairman of the House
(05:10):
Committee on Foreign Affairs, Olke said the Cruse Bill is
quote a deliberate attempt to damage the Nigerian image, and
he insists Nigeria is a very tolerant country. Well other
than murdering fifty thousand Christians, very tolerant other than that. Likewise,
the Minister of Information and National Orientation, Mohammed Idris, rejected
(05:36):
the suggestion that quote any Nigerian officials will willingly deliberately
indulge in the act of siding with violent extremists to
target any particular religion in the country. Likewise, Presidential spokesperson
on Anungo demanded that Cruz stop his quote malicious and
(05:57):
contrived lies against quote my country. And finally, Senate President
God's Will Akpabillo cautioned against framing the crisis quote along
religious lines since quote terrorists and bandits target Nigerians indiscriminately,
(06:20):
regardless of faith. Now listen, it is certainly true that
Bukoharam and other religious radicals in Nigeria are killing Muslims
as well. They're killing both. But they are systematically targeting
Christians for mass murder. When you've got fifty thousand Christians
being murdered, that is not accidental, that is not random.
And the over eighteen thousand churches and the over two
(06:41):
thousand schools, they're singling out and targeting Christian churches and
Christian schools and burning them to the ground. And the
Government of Nigeria's not acting with any vigor at all
to defend and to defend the Christians or just to
keep them alive.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, to keep them alive.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
And so now obviously this is about letting it shining
a light on this, and then you go back to
the policy aspect of this, what happens next and for
people specifically that are listening, what do they need to
be doing and advocating for to make sure that we
can move this forward.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Look, the next step needs to be that I'm pushing
for the Congress to pass my legislation. I'm on the
Senate Foreign Relations Committee, so I'm pressing for the Senate
Foreign Relations Committee to take it up that would designate
Nigeria as a country of particular concern. Now, I would
note the Trump administration can do so on its own,
(07:39):
and this is often the case in foreign policy areas,
where I'll introduce legislation and I'll push for action. So,
for example, I've introduced legislation to designate the Muslim Brotherhood
is a terrorist organization. I've done so repeatedly in multiple congresses.
I think it is unequivocally a terrorist organization. In fact,
Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood hamas Is
(08:01):
is the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine is what they call themselves,
and that has not yet happened. But I would like
to see Congress pass my legislation. But the most likely
way we'll get the Muslim Brotherhood designated is that I
will succeed in convincing President Trump and the Trump administration
to do so. And I've been making that case vigorously.
(08:21):
With respect to Nigeria, the same thing is true. I'm
going to try to pass the legislation, but I'm also
very much making the case to the Trump administration. They
have the authority to do it now. And look, I
want to point out you asked what people can do.
Speak out highlight fifty thousand Christians massacred since two thousand
and nine, the single greatest mass slaughter of Christians anywhere
(08:43):
in the world. And look here's how Fox News put it.
Quote a diplomatic battle as being waged between leading Republican
Senator Ted Cruz and Nigerian government officials. The Texas senators
has warned he will hold them accountable for the reported
mass slaughter of tens of things thousands of Christians in Nigeria.
The official SA Cruz is lying with one claiming that
(09:04):
despite even the Pope publicly calling out the killings, there
is religious harmony in the country. But you know what,
maybe you don't believe me, Maybe you don't believe the Pope.
So if the Pope and I are both wrong, how
about this, maybe maybe you'll believe Bill Maher. You have
(09:25):
a listen to what Bill Maher had to say on
this topic.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
If you don't know what's going on in Nigeria, your
media sources suck. You are in a bubble. And again,
I'm not a Christian, but they are systematically killing the
Christians in Nigeria. They've killed over one hundred thousand since
two thousand and nine. They've burned eighteen thousand churches. This
is so much more. These are the Islamis Fokoha ram.
(09:48):
This is so much more of a genocide attempt than
what is going on in Gaza. They are literally attempting
to wipe out the Christian population of an entire country.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Where are the kids protesting this?
Speaker 5 (10:01):
Very Still.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
No one will talk about it, so thank you.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Absolutely it's Africa.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
That's what no one's talking about it and they should be.
Speaker 6 (10:11):
You can't read about it on mainstream media it's sad.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
So thank you for bringing the.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
Jews aren't involved. That's why what's the Christians and the.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Muslims two players? He is exactly right, and I appreciate
Bill Maher calling it out and shining a light on it.
He's right that that that that the corporate media does
not want to cover it. And by the way, on
that same show, uh, someone you know, well, Van Jones
from CNN. He was on that show. And Van Jones
(10:39):
is a very left wing guy and he's on CNN regularly.
But but but he commented and and and he chimed
in agreeing with Bill Maher. Here give a listen to
Van Jones talking talking about the slaughter of Christians in Nigeria.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
You're talking about young people. A lot of them seem
to know one thing. White people did some very bad
things in this world, and they certainly did. But there
are other things.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
To know, and including the fact that in Sudan right now,
which nobody is talking about, you have Arab militia murdering
people by the wheelbarrow, including the fact that Africa right
now is being overrun by Islamis terrasts including look, Rob
with no conversation about that at all.
Speaker 5 (11:15):
I did it last week. Nigeria.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah, I mean this is an.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Actual planned genocide. Yes, I mean they really want to
kill all the Christians in that country and they are
systematically doing it.
Speaker 6 (11:26):
And the fact that there's almost no response from the
global left and no attention from mainstream media is a
crime against African people, black people, and human rights. I
agree with that one hundred percent. It turns out that
there's a double standard for Jews. That is true. No Jews,
no news. As long as you can put the Jewish
(11:46):
state in the conversation, it's going to be a big conversation.
If you can't, you get no attention at all. This
is a big problem. It is a big problem. I
mean you hear Van Jones saying it. Yep, he is correct.
It is a huge problem. No use, no news. I mean,
it's amazing that this is happening.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Look, we see the protest on college campuses. We see
these angry leftists who are completely enraged about Gaza. The
instant President Trump negotiates a peace deal, they go away.
Now Hamas is executing Palestinians on the street, lighting up
Palestinians on their knees, shooting them in the back of
the head, and not a peep. These leftist radicals, they
(12:25):
are perfectly fine with Palestinians being systematically murdered as long
as it's Palestinians. As long as Hamas doing the murder.
You don't see a protest, you don't see and he
calls a genocide. Their protest is about one thing, which
is they hate Israel and they hate Jews. And I
got to say, where is ABC, where is CBS, Where
(12:47):
is NBC? Where's CNN and MSNBC, Where's the New York Times?
Where's the Washington Post? About the mass murder of over
fifty thousand Christians in Nigeria.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Now, if you want to hear the rest of this conversation,
you can go back and listen to the full podcast
from earlier this week. Now onto story number two center.
It's time for us to talk about China. And a
lot of people are talking about the economic issues with China,
sanctions and tariffs. The subject we're about to talk about
is what I hope people share everywhere on social media.
(13:20):
This is why we do this show, and it's so important,
and this is what's happening in China, cracking down on Christianity,
right now and is not being talked about enough well.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Communist China has a terrible record when it comes to
religious liberty and religious persecution, and in particular the persecution
of Christians, and China has for decades persecuted Christians in China,
but recently they've been cracking down and it's been getting
worth So here's how I put it to Fox News
(13:52):
this week. The Chinese Communist Party is conducting yet another
sweeping crackdown on Christians, and they're again targeting Pastor Jin
and the Zion Church. The CCP fears anything it cannot
directly control, perhaps most of all faith. The United States
(14:13):
has powerful tools to provide protection and relief to people
facing persecution and violence, and we should use those tools
unless and until China releases the members of the Zion Church.
And what has happened is is China arrested several Christian leaders,
including the pastor of one of the country's biggest underground
(14:36):
evangelical church churches, and that's Pastor Jin Mingry, whose children
are US citizens. Grace Jin, who is Mingri's daughter, was
very kind but went out of her way to thank
me for fighting to release her father from prison and
here's what Grace Jen said. She said quote his efforts
(15:00):
demonstrate that the world is watching on as the Chinese
government unjustly imprisons pastors and church leaders for the peaceful
exercise of their faith. Thank you to the leaders here
and abroad for all the support and solidarity and CENTATR.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
This is I think the part that's so frustrating for
me and so many listening is this has been happening
for so long, and because so many countries do business
with China, they have deliberately looked the other way because
they're basically saying, Hey, we'd rather just get along and
do trade and get cheap Chinese goods and actually hold
them account for what they're doing to Christians.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Well, that's happening far too often.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
And we've discussed before on this podcast the persecution the
mass murder of Christians in Nigeria. Nigeria the most Christians
are murdered for their faith of any country on earth,
and I've been leading the effort to hold Nigeria do
account while in China. Likewise, for my entire time in
the Senate, I've been vocal speaking out for Christians being
persecuted in China and and this crackdown. Actually, next week
(16:04):
President Trump is is going to Asia and is gonna
gonna meet with with President She of China. And and so,
just this past week I introduced a bipartisan resolution condemning
China's persecution of Christians in particular and Pastor gen and
and and I was joined by Chris Coons. Chris is
(16:25):
a Democrat, uh and and and Chris is someone who
cares deeply about religious liberty. And so we joined together
with a bipartisan resolution calling on China to release Pastor Jin,
to stop targeting the Zion Church, to release the pastors
and the Christians who've been imprisoned, and and and to
cease engaging in persecution of religious liberty writ broadly, and
(16:49):
and of Christians in particular.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
It really is one of those it's that is frustrating.
And now this comes back to the issue of leverage.
Is this going to be enough leverage to poss We
see a change here, because one thing that we've learned
is China only responds when their pocketbook gets hurt. And
if they don't think we have the political will to
stand up for Christians, then they're going to continue to
persecute them.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
No matter what, that's just their mo.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
They are.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
But they respond to pressure. They respond to pressure in
two forms. Number one to being publicly called out, to
having light shine on their oppression. And number two, they
respond to economic leverage. And President Trump is very effective
at employing economic leverage. I think we should do both.
Our bipartisan resolution is aimed at quote, expressing condemnation of
(17:38):
the Chinese Communist parties persecution of Christians and reaffirming the
United States's global commitment to promote religious freedom and tolerance.
And it also includes a demand that the Chinese Communist
Party respect the human right to freedom of religion and
end all forms of violence and discrimination against religious minorities.
(18:01):
And the resolution notes the CCP's actions mark the largest
coordinated nationwide crackdown against a Christian urban house church in
more than forty years.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
It also notes that.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
The US Commission on International Religious Freedom designated China as
a country of quote particular concern for religious freedom every
single year since nineteen ninety eight, and Pastor Jin of
the Zion Church was detained by Chinese authorities, and indeed
(18:37):
that came as nearly thirty Zion Church pastors and workers
were likewise detained or went missing across Beijing, Senjing, Shanghai, Chendo, Behai, Jingshing,
and huang Do. And I apologize for my Chinese pronunciation.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I'll forgive you.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
But here's here's what Grace Jen said about this, and
she's Pastor Jen's daughter. One after another they were also
taken detained like they were saying that they were people
outside the doors. Then one at a time they were
taken into custody.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
This is wrong.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
And President Trump has an opportunity when he is in Asia,
when he is with President She, to call on President
She to release these pastors, release Pastor Jen, release the
Christians who are being persecuted, and stop persecuting people of faith.
And I think the United States has a responsibility to
(19:39):
be a voice for religious liberty across the country, to
defend Christians when they're persecuted, to defend Jews when they're persecuted,
to defend people of faith all across the world. You know,
you look at radical Islamic terrorists, many of them target
and persecute other Muslims who are not violent. And I
think religious persecut is wrong, regardless of who the victims are,
(20:04):
and we should be a voice for religious liberty. Now,
that doesn't mean that America should go and invade China
to try to break the pastor out of jail. But
there are lots of tools that the president can use,
including the bully pulpit of the presidency, including shining a light,
and including also economic leverage to try to stop this persecution.
(20:28):
And I very much hope President Trump will do so
in the coming week.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, you and I both hope that final question on this.
As you watch President Trump with pressure not just on
China but other countries, it does seem to be that
his foreign policy now is if there is a wrong
that needs to be discussed, it's going to be on
the table, front and center. That is pretty different from
what we've seen in past administrations where they're like, well,
(20:53):
maybe it's not the time to bring that up. Right now,
he seems to be willing to bring it all up.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
You're absolutely right, and strong American leadership can stand up
to tyrannies. The Soviet Union was terrified of Ronald Reagan.
That's how we won the Cold War without firing a shot,
and Communist China and our enemies across the globe are
terrified of Donald Trump and that's why we're seeing such
major national security improvements right.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Now as before.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
If you want to hear the rest of this conversation
on this topic, you can go back and dow the
podcasts from earlier this week to hear the entire thing.
I want to get back to the big story, number
three of the week. You may have missed, all right, senator,
So let's start with the big news. Where were you
when you found out that you respied on as part
(21:38):
of Jacksmith's investigation into Donald Trump. This clearly is a
fishing expedition. And what were you told? Have you been
briefed on this or are you just getting to say
mentel we are from reading it in the news.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
So I found out about this last week. Last Thursday.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
I got the information. And let's back up a couple
of weeks ago. A couple of weeks ago, the news
broke that x Smith, the prosecutor and the Biden DOJ
that was going after January sixth, that was going after
President Trump had subpoenaed eight senators and one Republican house
member and had gotten their cell phone records. And the
(22:14):
eight senators who had been subpoena were Marsha Blackburn, Ron Johnson,
Bill Haggerty, Josh Holly, Cynthia Lummis, Lindsey Graham, Dan Sullivan,
and Tommy Tuberville. And then Mike Kelly, a Republican House
member from Pennsylvania, was also subpoenaed. All nine of them
had their cell phone records handed over to the Biden
Department of Justice. Now, I got to admit just over
(22:37):
a week ago, Sean Hannity was in town and I
had dinner with Sean and with several of the senators
on that list as well, and I was laughing with Sean.
I was saying, I'm actually kind of offended, like how.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
Did I get lift out of this list? Like what
did I have to do? You know?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
I was literally standing on the Senate floor on January sixth,
objecting and leading the fight, and I had brought together
eleven senators to stand together in fighting for an election
commission to assess the evidence of voter fraud, and including
many of the senators who were subpoena were in the
(23:18):
group that I'd brought together. So I was joking with Sean,
but I wasn't entirely joking. Well, it turns out the
reason I was not on the list is apparently all
eight of those senators. Their cell phones are with Verizon,
and the evidence had come out that Verizon had handed
over their cell phone information. Well, my cell phone is
with AT and T and I didn't know it at
(23:39):
the time, but I found out late last week that
Jack Smith sent a subpoena at AT and T demanding my
cell phone records, and AT and T told him to
go jump in lake. AT and T did not give
my cell phone records. I really look AT and T
is based in Texas. I'm proud of them. They did
the right thing. I appreciate that, and and they assessed it.
(24:03):
They had a subpoena from Jack Smith. By the way,
the subpoena called for quote, detailed records for inbound and
outbound calls, text messages, direct connect and voicemail messages, among
other things. So they were seeking that. There was an
also an order from Judge Boseburg, who was you know this,
(24:26):
This left wing judge has been presiding against over much
of the litigation against against Trump, had an order from
Judge Boseburg ordering AT and T you cannot disclose to
Cruise that we're seeking his cell phone information for a year.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Isn't that amazing, By the way, and you're sitting unin
State Center, don't tell him, we don't want him to know.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yes, And so AT and T examined it, and they
actually they came to the conclusion. Now, the way it works,
so the subpoena just comes and and they get a
cell phone number. So so so the Biden DOJ didn't
identify who they were seeking. And and by the way, look,
the telecom companies typically if they get a subpoena for
(25:09):
for phone records on a number, they typically hand it
over because it's usually a drug dealer or a criminal.
You have a subpoena that's issued from a grand jury,
so so it it they will routinely in a criminal
proceeding hand over.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Well, it's so happened that that AT and T even
though they just asked for the number, they looked and
realized whose number it was, and and and that they
talked with their legal team and and and they said, listen,
what what Cruz is saying is it and any member
of Congress, what they're saying is protected by the Speech
and Debate Clause of the Constitution. The Constitution uh protects
(25:45):
the ability of of of Senators and House members to
engage in debate to to do our jobs. Article one
of the Constitution vests all legislative power in the Congress.
And and in fact, we you know on January it
was very literally speech in debate. As I said, I
was standing on the Senate floor, Yeah, giving a speech
(26:06):
and raising an objection. So it's literally the heart of
what one does as an elected member of Congress. And
so at and T concluded, listen there, we're not going
to comply. As I said, I'm grateful for At and
T doing that, but that now makes it nine senators
that we know of and one House.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
So I'm guessing there might be other senators that were
also at At and T and they probably said no, we're
not going to do that either. Right, it would be
Verizon just caved instantly and said, sure, here's everybody you're
asking for. There could be easily, I would say, another four, five,
six others. Who knows how many outside the Senate right
that they could have asked for that they could have
said no to as well. And I would assume there
was a lot of people on At and.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
T well, And look the Biden doj also after the
Republican Attorney General's Association. It went after Turning Point USA.
This was a massive fishing expedition and this was a
political persecution.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Understand.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Jack Smith was appointed Special Counsel to investigate and prosecute
January sixth, three days after Donald Trump announced his campaign
for reelection in twenty twenty four, literally three days later,
so it was twenty twenty two, So it was two
years after January sixth. They had not appointed anyone, and
yet suddenly when Trump announces his campaign, they rushed to
(27:25):
appoint Jack Smith to say, go after Donald Trump because
we want to stop the voters from.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Voting for him.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Sure, but nine senators, that is twenty percent of the
Republicans in the United States Senate. And I got to
say for the executive branch to engage in wholesale spying
on their political opponents and spying with let's be clear,
none of us engaged in criminal conduct. None of us
(27:53):
can engage in anything remotely criminal, arguably criminal. This was
political persecution. This was snooping. This is hoping. Someone said something.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I was going to ask you, what were they hoping
to find?
Speaker 4 (28:06):
Right?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Like you go fishing and what what is this smoking gun?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
In that scenario they were they were just, hey, we'll
just go after all these conservatives and maybe we get lucky.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Look, I don't know what they were hoping to find,
but but but they were asking for the cell phone
records from from January fourth to January seventh, so all
surrounding January sixth. I assumed they were looking for some
some modicum of coordination, uh with with with those who
engage in active violence on that day. Part of their
(28:39):
theory was was the alternate electors that were being sent
from various states. So I assumed they were looking for
some modicum of coordination there. But this was a political
prosecution because they did not have evidence. And so they said, well,
let's let's go through their cell phone records and see
if we can find something. And by the way, who
(28:59):
knows if if somebody had sent something stupid a text,
had a voicemail, had you know, I mean people when
you go through someone's emails, when you go through someone's
cell phones, when prosecutors go looking for a crime, the
nature of a fishing expedition is, let's go look around.
(29:21):
You know, there's a book that was written decades ago.
Uh that that that that's called three felonies a day,
and and it talks about how the average American commits
three felonies a day, that that in our regulatory state,
things are so complicated, things are so mired in complexity
that that that you can violate you know, you you
step on a wetland in your backyard. And and and
(29:43):
you know there's an old line that a prosecutor can
indict a ham sandwich. Yeah, that that a prosecutor goes
in front of a grand jury. When a prosecutor goes
in front of a grand jury, you know, there's no
defense attorney there. It's just the prosecutor and members of
the grand jury. And so I don't know what they
were looking for. I think they were looking for anything
that could stick because this was a political prosecution. Let
(30:06):
me ask you this if and so Ben, I just
want to say, I'm really grateful they did not find
the pictures you send to me of you in a
pink too too, because I just think that it's not criminal.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
All the league jokes that I send you about the
Ivy League snobs. I mean, Jack Smith probably ended up
going to one of those places that could have been
very bad for me.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
I it you know it would have been.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
And I got to say, just the typos and misspellings
that that that you have in your text, that that
alone would.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
Have been a little bit embarrassing too. So I'm glad
none of that game.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
News is they're very hard to decipher when you're if there,
if it's in front of you know, Congress, like it's
what was been really trying to say, And I'm like,
you're welcome.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
I will tell you bet.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I think I talked to AT and T today and
I said, look, you guys got to start a marketing
campaign of shift to AT and T.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
We'll we'll protect your Yeah, we're like to them.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Look, I I don't have a good answer to that.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
But but but but I did. Uh.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
And I didn't know about this until just a few
days ago. So this was when the first news broke.
I like, I was joking that I felt excluded, but
it wasn't entirely a joke. And and then I was like, oh, okay,
that makes sense, and uh, and here.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
We are, all right if I don't question on this,
what is gonna be the response from Congress? Will there
be any to this or is this just old administration
abuse of power?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
It is what it is.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
We're going to move on or is there going to
be a way to make sure like we have standards
of this is not allowed to happen and that people
are held accountable for this.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Look, I think we're going to see hearings. I think
we've we've we've got hearings coming in the House. I
think we'll see hearings in the Senate. I will tell
you the nine of us who were targeted, we're we're
talking to each other because we want to prevent this.
We want to prevent a subsequent DOJ from doing this,
from spying on their political opponents, particularly in in Congress.
(32:02):
The executive doesn't have the ability to go engage in
spying on on members of the opposing party in Congress.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
That is an.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Abuse of power. It is it is politicization.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
And and this that this entire effort, So so this
prosecution was called Arctic Frost. And and I think this
is going to be the watergate of the Biden d
o J. I think it is a demonstration that Jack
Smith was a partisan prosecutor who was drunk on power
and and and and I don't believe Jack Smith made
(32:38):
this decision on his own. I think the decision making
goes all the way up. I think it goes up
to the Attorney General. I think it goes up to
the White House. And and so I expect number one
some some real investigation and hopefully transparency in terms of
who approved let's go spy on members of Congress and
and and and and that that I think we're going
to work to have some real transparent and on and
(33:00):
that I think we're gonna look at real and concrete
steps we can take to make sure this never happens again,
because this kind of there is there a.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Part of you that just thinks like maybe this has
just been going on and never really stopped. After after
you know, the the the famous FBI director that had
you know, files on everybody, and and people said, well,
we won't have that again, after after Jagger, and and
now it's like they're just like they wild West. You
can do what the hell you want to if you're
(33:27):
a Democrat and you're in charge, Like we can spawn
in the present, we can spy the campaigns. We can
go after people in the situation room and the trap them.
We can try to go after their business associates and
their kids and get them to turn against them, like
Eric Trump was talking about that on our.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Show the day.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
If you missed that show, people should go back and
listen to He's like they were literally trying to turn
Donald Trump's own children against him, threatening that your life's
gonna be over and you're gonna be in jail, so
you better get a get out of jail free card.
And now it's like yeah, and we were also spaying
on senators. I'm assuming some congressmen will come out like
who knows who's there? We I mean, Charlie Kirk said
(34:01):
recently before assassination. It came out that he said during
the campaign, we either win the campaign or I may
go to jail. I actually believe now witnessing what we've
seen that that's not far off from reality at all.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Look, the left was willing to weaponize the Department of
Justice and the FBI. As you know, I wrote an
entire book entitled Justice Corrupted, How the Left is weaponized
our legal system, and it talked about it actually started
with Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon tried to do that and
and you look at some of the some of the
hair brain schemes that the Nixon Justice Department came up with,
(34:36):
including creating underground stings to to get people, to get
people on film taking drugs and with prostitutes to use
to essentially blackmail them and to go after their political opponents.
I mean, it was grotesque abuse of power. And when
that came to light, we actually saw an improvement. And
(34:57):
there were a couple of decades where I think this
this receded and occurred far less. And then what Richard
Nixon tried to do to the justice system, Barack Obama
succeeded in doing. He came in as this this almost
messiah figure and and and do o j Eric Holders
(35:18):
Attorney General. You had Lois Learner at the IRS. They
began targeting their political opponents, targeting targeting anyone that they
disagreed with, and also protecting their friends. During the Trump
administration the first term, they went underground, but they waged
war on the president. These are the people that created
fraudulent documents submitted to the FISA Court in order to
(35:39):
in order to try to go after President Trump. They
wanted to reverse the results of the twenty sixteen election
because they were furious that the American people elected Trump.
And then during Biden they were opened, they were flagrant,
they were out in the open, and they were abusing
their power. And I think they felt that the ends
justified the means and and anything was acceptable, And so
(36:03):
I think we need to take real steps. Do I
think this has been going on forever?
Speaker 4 (36:07):
And ever? I don't. I certainly hope not. I'm not
aware that it has.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
There is there, there's ancient history, but it took really
I think, under Biden to make it just as as
viciously partisan as.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Well as Imma.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yes, yeah, it will's came off and no one cared
about the rules anymore.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Clearly, it's incredible.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
As always, thank you for listening to Verdict with Center
Ted Cruz Ben Ferguson with you don't forget to deal
with my podcast and you can listen to my podcast
every other day you're not listening to Verdict or each
day when you.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Listen to Verdict.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Afterwards, I'd love to have you as a listener to
again the Ben Ferguson podcasts, and we will see you
back here on Monday morning.
Host
Ben Ferguson
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