June 20, 2025 • 40 mins
-
Cruz vs. Carlson on Foreign Policy:
- Cruz defends a strong U.S. alliance with Israel and supports aggressive action against Iran’s nuclear ambitions.
- Carlson is portrayed as advocating for isolationism, opposing U.S. involvement in foreign conflicts, and questioning support for Israel.
-
Tensions and “Gotcha” Moments:
- Carlson challenges Cruz with questions like the population of Iran, which Cruz admits he didn’t know offhand.
- Cruz criticizes Carlson for using such moments to create viral clips rather than engage in substantive debate.
-
Iranian Threats Against Trump:
- Cruz cites intelligence and DOJ reports alleging that Iran has plotted to assassinate Donald Trump and former Trump officials.
- Carlson is skeptical or unaware of these claims, leading to a heated exchange.
-
Accusations of Anti-Israel Bias:
- Cruz accuses Carlson of obsessively targeting Israel and groups like AIPAC, suggesting a double standard not applied to other U.S. allies.
-
Moral Clarity and American Exceptionalism:
- Cruz argues against moral relativism, asserting that the U.S. and its leaders are fundamentally different from authoritarian regimes like Russia or Iran.
- He emphasizes “peace through strength” and a foreign policy based on protecting American interests.
-
Trump’s Position:
- Trump is quoted supporting Cruz’s stance and reaffirming his own “America First” doctrine, particularly in opposing a nuclear-armed Iran.
Please Hit Subscribe to this podcast Right Now. Also Please Subscribe to the 47 Morning Update with Ben Ferguson and Verdict with Ted Cruz Wherever You get You're Podcasts. Thanks for Listening
#seanhannity #hannity #marklevin #levin #charliekirk #megynkelly #tucker #tuckercarlson #glennbeck #benshapiro #shapiro #trump #sexton #bucksexton
#rushlimbaugh #limbaugh #whitehouse #senate #congress #thehouse #democrats
#republicans #conservative #senator #congressman #congressmen #congresswoman #capitol #president #vicepresident #POTUS #presidentoftheunitedstatesofamerica
#SCOTUS #Supremecourt #DonaldTrump #PresidentDonaldTrump #DT #TedCruz #Benferguson #Verdict
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It is the Ben Ferguson Show. It is so nice
to have you with us. All right, So you may
have seen the clips that went viral with Mi co Senter,
Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson and Center Cruse and I
decided we were going to break down that entire interview
because if you saw the clips and went to literally
hundreds of millions of views, you may not have heard
(00:21):
actually what was said in that two hour interview. And
I want to give you those highlights now. Before I
get to that, I also want to tell you about
what is going on with Donald Trump and Iran in
Israel and the latest what we now know is that
the President is now saying that he could give an
(00:42):
essence up to two weeks to make a decision if
he is going to bomb a RAN's main nuclear site,
which is deep underground in that mountain side. There is
a couple reasons why this could be happening. I want
you to understand it. Number One, there are a lot
of ships that are needing to go through the stratif moves,
which Iran could try to in essence, cut off twenty
(01:05):
five percent of all the oil in the world goes
through there every day and twenty percent of natural gas
goes through there, So there is some logistical training, you know,
issues there that they need to get done, and giving
more time to do that could be huge from an
energy perspective.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
That's one issue.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Number two, There's there's no doubt that Iran will retaliate
if America is the one that bombs and blows up
that nuclear site. So there's there's targets we want to
protect and harden. We also have assets that are going
in to the Middle East. Our carriers and striker groups
are going. We want to give them time to make
sure they're there to respond if i randicides to take
(01:46):
an attack, whether it's using drones or other things against
American interest American.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Troops in the Middle East.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
There's then the third part of the reason why the
President may be given this two weeks, and that is
because you have a bunch of countries in Europe. They're
going to be meeting today and they're going to be
meeting with leadership from Iran. Maybe something good can come
out of that. They'll have time to report back to
the White House. Maybe we can get disarmament and avoid
(02:13):
this entire you know throwdown. But what Donald Trump has
said is I'm going to decide on the Ranian strikes
within the next two weeks. So within the next two
weeks means it could be tomorrow, could be later today,
it could be three days from now, five days from now,
thirteen days from now. You get my point. But there's
a lot of logistical things that could be happening.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Now.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
The final point on this I want to be clear
about also before we get into this tug Carlson and
Ted Cruz. Thing that I want you to hear is
some of this could also be Israel saying, hey, we've
got more attacks that we want and more targets that
we want to go after in Iran before you guys
basically put the the you know, the the cherry on
top of the Sunday so we're not finished with our
(02:55):
work and we don't want you to hit this thing,
and then I'll still be bombing, and then there's some
confused usion. There are people they're demanding that we stop.
So there's multiple different aspects of why there's a real
good chance that the President said, all right, I'm going
to have this two week you know, decide within the
next two weeks, and Iran is saying, look, third party
(03:17):
intervention would spark immediate reaction. That's their words. They're not
backing down, they're hardlining. But they are meeting with these
European nations today, so we'll see what comes out of that.
So I want to give you that update for you.
First off, Now, if you saw Tucker Carlson lose his
mind against Ted Cruz, it was a very odd and
weird interview. There's a lot of people asking the question,
(03:38):
why is like our own team fighting against each other
right now? What was the reasoning behind Tuger Carlson doing this.
I think it's pretty clear Tucker Carlson was taking a
lot of heat for publicly attacking Donald Trump, and Donald
Trump slap backed really hard at Tucker Carlson. I think
he needed a distraction and he thought, oh, I'll have
(04:00):
Ted Cruz on, I'll get a war going with Ted Cruz.
That'll get the focus off Donald Trump coming after me
after I went after Donald Trump. Now, since then, we
know that tug Carlson has actually called the President and
apologized to the President. It doesn't mean, though, that this
whole interview didn't actually happen. So I want you to
hear this take a listen. But let's just start with
the basic question that I think so many people have
(04:22):
been asking me when they saw the sibbits of this interview,
and I would actually encourage people to watch the entire interview,
not just the little things that popped on social media,
but number one like why did you decide to do
this interview with him?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
And did do you think it was going to be
like this?
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Well, let me start with the second part.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
First.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yes, I knew exactly what it was going to be.
I knew that Tucker when he asked for the interview,
I know that he was doing it to come after me.
I knew he was going to come in and just
be swinging as hard as he could.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
And I went in.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
I wasn't looking to pick a fight, and in fact,
we started the interview with my pointing out. I said, Tucker, listen,
you and I we agree on about eighty percent of issues.
We agree across the board. And I said, Tucker, you
have been fantastic on a ton of issues. You've been
fantastic on securing the border. That is a deep passion
of mine. We have got to secure the border. And
(05:17):
when Joe Biden the Democrats had opened borders. You were
ferocious in fighting for that which I have been fighting
alongside that with all my might. I will say during COVID,
during the COVID lockdowns, Tucker was phenomenal. In fact, to
the middle of the COVID lockdowns. I called Tucker back
when he had a show on Fox, and I told him,
I said, Tucker, your evening monologues are the single best
(05:40):
thing on television. I listen to them. I consume them
like crack every night because they are so good. Because
he was speaking out, he was speaking out powerfully against
the insanity of shutting down our country, against the insanity
of shutting down small businesses, against the insanity of shutting
down churches, against the insanity of shutting down schools. And
over ten million kids did not go to in person
(06:02):
school for.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Over a year.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
And by the way, the data all show the learning
loss to kids from that idiotic social experiment is going
to be with them their entire life. I think ten, twenty, thirty,
forty years from now, we're going to look back and say,
what idiocy prompted this country to shut down schools and
hurt so many kids. So on all of those issues
on free speech on the Second Amendment. Tucker's been fantastic,
(06:26):
and we aren't exactly the same page on all of
those issues. Now, I did acknowledge there are issues on
which we disagree. I knew that Tucker wanted the interview
because he wanted to come after me, and I knew
that it was going to be particularly spicy, a lot
of fireworks, because Tucker in the last week has gotten
(06:47):
really crosswise with President Trump. Tucker has blasted the President
and said that the President was complicit in Israel's war.
He said that the President's actions were not consistent with
America first. And so I knew that Tucker was going
to be hot and that I was going to be
the target to take his I r out. But I
(07:07):
did the interview because listen, although Tucker is right on
a whole lot of issues on foreign policy, I think
he's gone really off the rails. He has gotten to
a place of hardcore isolationism that I think is really dangerous.
It's not good for America. I disagree with it. He
does not want America to support Israel, he does not
(07:29):
want America to do anything to stop Iran from getting
a nuclear weapon, and he is vocally and vigorously disagreeing
with President Trump. And I thought it was important for
me to do this interview to explain what President Trump
is doing and to defend the president, to stand with
President Trump. And I got to tell you, the entire
theme of my interview was very simple. Donald Trump is right,
(07:53):
and Tucker on Iran and Israel, you're wrong. And that
was the whole point of the interview that came across
at great length. Now, we did the interview and on Tuesday,
and then Tucker released it on Wednesday. But before Wednesday,
he released a little stippet and in two hours. Look,
I'm going to give Tucker some credit, he had a
(08:13):
little gotcha moment. So two hours of back and forth
and back and forth and back and forth, and he
decided to play a little gotcha moment. So so in
the course of talking about Iran, he asks me, he says, well,
what's the population of Iran? And I thought about it
for a second and realized I didn't actually know the
exact population of Iran, and so I just said I
don't know, and he did the sort of classic Tucker.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
What how can you not know that?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
And I mean, he was, you know, vibrating and looking
as if I had, you know, admitted to I don't know,
committing treason or something. And I just said, look, I
don't I don't memorize population tables and and and he
comes in with with great, great joy and says and
I asked him, I said, what's the population of a
(08:59):
r He says ninety two million. Actually, according to the
Google searches afterwards, it's eighty nine million, So he was
off three million, which I think is funny because I
assume he Google searched it right before the interview so
he could do his little gotcha. And I'll confess this
may not be terribly credible, but the truth of the
matter is in my head what I was going to say,
if I was guessing, was ninety million, So I was
(09:21):
actually felt pretty good. I'm like, huh, all right, pretty
damn close. But I said, look, what difference does it
make if it's ninety million or eighty million or a
hundred million. And the reason I didn't want to positive
guess is because stupid and unfair interviews. You play gotcha's
on this and I'll say things like population numbers. There
are all sorts of countries across the globe that have
(09:42):
sort of really surprising populations, that they can have populations
that are either significantly bigger than you would think, are
significantly smaller than you would think. And at the end
of the day, what I was talking about, which is
the Iatola, theocratic radical lunatic who chanced death to American
is trying to develop a nuclear weapon. The thread of
that is not remotely different whether Iran has a population
(10:06):
of eighty million, ninety million, or a hundred million. So
it was an irrelevant gotcha. But that little clip, what
Tucker did is he released it a day before the
whole interview, so he picked out of two hours. He
thought that was the best sixty seconds because he did
get me to say the words I don't know, and
he felt very gleeful on that I got to say.
The rest of the interview as it played out, there's
(10:26):
a reason he wanted to start with that clip. And
that clip went viral, and that's fine, but there's a
reason he wanted to start with that clip because the
rest of the interview. Tucker's positions on Israel were very clear.
He didn't want to stand with Israel. He was and
we're going to lay this out in the course of
the show, deeply opposed to Israel, and he was deeply
(10:48):
opposed to President Trump's policy, and in fact, he had
been in writing and vocally attacking President Trump. And he
didn't want to talk about that in terms of putting
it out the results of the interview. But that's why
I did the interview.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I gotta ask you a question.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Are you one of those that's just so tired of
giving your money to radical left woke companies that actually
are fighting against your values every day?
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Well, there are certain bills that you pay.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Every month that if you can go with a conservative company,
why not do it? In fact, why not go with
a conservative company that actually takes part of your bill
every month that you're going to pay to somebody, and
they give it back to organizations that support your First
and your Second Amendment rights, that support the rights of
unborn children, that stand with our military are first responders
(11:35):
and so many wounded warriors that need help. Well, that
bill I'm talking about is your cell phone bill. And
I've been telling you for a long time about Patriot Mobile,
But there's no better time to switch than right now.
Not only does Patriot Mobile operate on all three major
networks in this country.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, all three. That means you get the same great coverage.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
You're used to right now, but you also make a
difference with every call you make and every text you make.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
And why would you want to give your mond a
big Mobile?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Big Mobile has been giving big donations to democratic causes,
democratic candidates, and radical left organizations. I'm talking about organizations
that actually support abortion. That is why I want you
to switch right now to Patriot Mobile. Go ahead and
make the switch, And it's so easy. All you have
(12:26):
to do is simply call Patriot Mobiles one hundred percent
US based team from the comfort of your home or
your office and they'll have you activated in minutes. And
if you're still locked in a contract, not a problem.
Patriots Mobile contract buyout program covers up to five hundred
dollars per device. Keep your same number, keep your phone,
or upgrade do a new one. So back to my point,
(12:47):
what are you waiting for? Call Patriot Mobile today and
make a difference every single day with every call you make.
Patriot Mobile dot com slash ferguson that's Patriot Mobile dot
com slash ferguson or nine seven two Patriot And if
you use the promo code ferguson, you're gonna get a
free month of service on top of that Patrion mobile
(13:09):
dot com slash ferguson or nine seven to patriot. That's
Patriot mobile dot com slash ferguson nine seven to two Patriot.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
So I've done interviews that have been pretty snarky.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
I worked at seen In for a long time as
a conservative commentator.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Are you glad you did the interview?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Because I always got that question, and it's the same
one I know a lot of people want to ask.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
You, absolutely one thousand percent.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Look, could the interview have been much better? If Tucker
had wanted to sit down and have a reasonable, thoughtful conversation,
let me speak, let him speak, us go back and
forth and lay out different visions of foreign policy, that
would have been a much much better interview. But Tucker
didn't want to do that. When he didn't like what
you're saying, he interrupts, he gets snarky, he insults you,
(13:55):
and you're gonna hear all of that because that's what
he did.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
But that's fine.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
I mean, he decided he wanted this interview to be
the two of us scream at each other. So that's
what it ended up being. But I'm very glad because
it was important to lay out the contrast. Donald Trump
is right and Tucker Carlson is wrong on Israel and Iran,
and I wanted to make that absolutely clear.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
One of the big differences between the two of you
was on what success looks like, especially when it comes
to Israel taking out top Iranian military leadership.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Well, that's exactly right. Israel right now is taking out
the senior Iranian military leadership. And this is a regime.
When the Iatola chants death to America, I believe him
when he chanced death to Israel. I believe him. When
he calls Israel the little Satan in America the great Satan,
I believe that he believes that. And so the Iatola's
(14:50):
efforts to develop nuclear weapons they are designed for one
very specific purpose, which is to be able to attack
Israel and America. And let me point out, by the way,
there is a reason the Ayatola has an ICBM program.
ICBM stands for intercontinental ballistic missile. You do not need
an ICBM to attack Israel right now. Iran is pounding
(15:13):
Israel with ballistic missiles. But Israel is relatively close to Iran.
Iran wants an ICBM for one purpose and one purpose only,
to be able to carry a nuclear warhead to the
United States of America. And so that is the threat
we are facing. And Israel is doing an enormous favor
to America by taking out Iran's nuclear capability. Here give
(15:36):
a listen to Tucker and me discussing exactly this point.
Do you want to ask how to supporting Israel benefit us?
Right now, this tiny little country the size of the
state of New Jersey is fighting our enemies for us
and taking out their top military leadership and trying to
take out their nuclear capacity.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
That makes America much safer.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Right by the way, You're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I mean Israel is taking out top peranium mili to
your leadership. And yes, Israel is fighting our enemies right
now for US, and not just America, but many other
countries around the world.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Well, and it benefits America. Understand, these nuclear weapons are
being developed so they can attack America. And and and
it's not American soldiers who are taking out these nuclear facilities,
it is it is Israeli commandos who are doing so
that's something we should be grateful for But but Tucker
Carlson has been vigorously criticizing President Trump for standing with
(16:31):
Israel on this and and and here's another segment with
with with Tucker and me discussing this point.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
Is that that I'm willing to spend money opposed to
that it's awful. I am against killing anybody actually, and
especially foreign government. I'm asking about your allegation and the
Prime Minister of Israel's allegation.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
That killing terrorists is a good thing.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Killing people are trying to murder Americans is a good
thing because if you're America first, you want to protect Americans.
So taking out killing O'sallovan Laden was a fantastic But
you don't believe that they're trying to murder Trump or
you say it, yes, but why are you senator?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
You said earlier in the interview with him at the
beginning and on this show that you and Tucker agree
on about eighty percent of the issues, like hardcore lockstep.
But this one here is maybe the most insane point
where Tucker's like, Hey, I don't want to kill anybody
around the world, no matter what I'm like, hold on,
if you had a chance to take out Hitler, You
wouldn't have done it?
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Well, this is unfortunately a point that frankly, you see
from a lot of people on the far left. You
see from the sort of Jimmy Carter's of the world,
and even Barack Obama's, the kind of piece nicks that say, man,
all war is bad. Just just you know, killing is bad.
I'm just opposed to killing. And I get that that
sounds good in a college faculty lounge. But as I
(17:55):
asked him in the course of it, I'm like, do
you think it's bad that we killed Osama bin Laden?
Do you think it's bad that that that Hitler's dead?
Do you think it's bad that we killed General Solomony?
Do you think it's bad that And let's be clear
that President Trump killed General Solomony. I asked him that
he wouldn't answer, that, he wouldn't ask answer if it
was if it was good or bad that we killed
(18:16):
Osama bin Laden. That the idea that we should never
kill anybody is an incredibly naive and unrealistic position. Look,
I think we should avoid unnecessary wars. I think we
should be very reluctant to put American servicemen and women
in harm's way. But when you have terrorists, killing Osama
bin Laden was a great day for America and a
(18:37):
great day for the world because Osama bin Laden murdered
thousands of Americans and waged war against America. And anyone
who is actually focused on America first and defending this
nation understands that there are dangerous people that are trying
to kill Americans and it's the job of the commander
in chief to keep them safe. Now, I will say,
(18:59):
in a two hour interview, one of the things that
was striking is thirty six minutes of the interview was
Tucker attacking me for supporting Israel, and in particular, he
was obsessed with APAC. APAC is the America Israel Political
(19:20):
Action Committee, and he was going on and on and
on about how APAC should have to register under FARH,
the law that requires that organizations that are lobbying on
behalf of foreign governments have to register. Now, APAK is
not lobbying on behalf of a foreign government. APAC consists
of Americans. It is Americans who are standing up. Now.
(19:41):
There are Americans who want a strong US Israel relationship,
but they are not a lobbyist for the Nation of Israel,
and all told, he asked twenty eight questions on APAC
twenty eight questions. He asked thirty five questions on why
I was supporting Israel, and finally it had led to
this moment, which which was quite a bit of fireworks. Here,
(20:03):
give a listen. By the way, Tucker, it's a very
weird thing, the obsession with Israel. Well, we're talking about
foreign country. You're not talking about Chinese, you're not talking
about Japanese. I'm talking about the Brits, You're not talking
about the French. The question what about the Jews? What
about the Jews? Semi Now, Senator, you're just in the question, Tucker,
(20:23):
you're asking why are the Jews controlling our foreign policy?
Speaker 5 (20:26):
That's what you just asked, hardly saying that, and I
have that. That's exactly what you just said.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
It is, by the way, exactly what you're saying over
and over again, as you mentioned for so long and again,
the demonization of Americans and many of them they are
Jewish that advocate for Israel in America and saying they
should be foreign lobbyist organization. Look, I've spoken at one
of their events before. I'm sure you've spoken it countless
events for them before. The idea that there's some foreign
(20:53):
agency is absurd.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
And he also had a whole lot of inquiry, isn't
it horrible that Israel spy on America? My response was,
every one of our allies spies on America. We spy
on every one of our allies. That's real politique, that's
the world we live in. And he could not acknowledge
that point. He said, no, no, but Israel does it. It's
terrible that Israel does it. And it was bizarrely focused. Okay, look,
(21:17):
the Brits spy on us, the Canadian spy on us,
the French spy on us. Everybody spies on us, and
we spy on everybody. Welcome to reality. Because conservatives are
not simple and naive, and yet the criticism that is
directed at Israel sadly is unique and I think really unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I want to get back into the Tucker Carlson interview
that you did and center there was some interesting themes
that came out of this interview. He was obviously attacking you,
he was attacking Israel, he was attacking groups that support Israel.
But then there was an even weirder point where I
think Tucker probably is hoping that we don't play this
(21:56):
or that people didn't watch the whole interview and hear
this part. It was about the Iranian regime. They've been
trying to murder Donald Trump. They've hired hitman, They've been
trying to hire hitman. They've come after former cabinet members
of Donald Trump. And when you brought it up, he
acted like he'd never heard of this before and that
you were either lying or this is shocking news to him.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, this was utterly bizarre, and I got to say,
in the whole course of the two hour interview, this
was the strangest portion. For the last two years, Iran
has been actively trying to murder President Donald Trump. Iran
has hired hitman to murder President Trump, and Ran also
has been trying to murder Mike Pompeo, President Trump's former
secretary of State, John Bolton, President Trump's former national security advisor,
(22:40):
and Brian Hook, President Trump's former assistant secretary of State.
All of them, Iran has hired hitman and has been
targeting them bizarrely, and this has been widely reported. These
are objective facts, but Bizarrely, Tucker Carlson assisted insisted this
has never happened.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Here, give a listen.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
I just want to pull that thread because it's so important.
I voted for Donald Trump. I can't paign for Donald Trump.
He's our president and won the custom of a war.
So if Iran, if there's evidence that Iran paid hitman
to kill Donald Trump and is currently doing that, where's that?
What are you even talking I've never heard that before. Okay,
where is the evidence? Who are these people? Why haven't
they been arrested? Why are we not at war with Iran?
(23:18):
That's a great question to ask. How do you know
that that's true.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
We know that it's true because we have been told
that by the military at our intelligence community for the
last two years. We meaning who Congress has in the public.
I mean, I had multiple testimonies. I can send you
test We know the names.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Of the people are where this happened, or what they
tried to do to kill Trump.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
We do not.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
We have not apprehended an Iranian hit man trying to
kill him. We know that Iran is trying to do
so in the United States. Yes, and by the way,
like Iran, this.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Just seems like a huge headline, and you're acting like
everyone knows this. I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Iran put out a whole video about murdering Trump.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
Right, but I've never heard evidence that there are hitmen
in the United States, I mean trying to kill Trump
right now, we should like have a nationwide drag dowd
on this and we should attack Iran immediately if that's true.
Don't you think no, but they're trying to assassinate our president.
They have been for two years. They are with them.
Well we are trying, why don't we just nuke tear
(24:21):
If they're trying to murder our president. There's nothing that
you could do that would be worse for the United
States than murdering Trump. And I just don't understand why
you're not calling for the use of nuclear weapons against
the eye tootal right now, I'm serious.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
If if you really.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Believe there's a nuclear weapons whatever hits the problem of
so mean, you don't seem to take the allegation seriously.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I do.
Speaker 5 (24:40):
If you believe they're trying to murder Trump, we need
to stop what we're doing and punish them.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I mean, insanely bizarre.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
We went from let's not do anything to Oh, they're
trying to kill Trump. Well, if that's true, let's just
nuke them.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
So you're right.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
The entire two hours, Tucker's position was, do nothing on
a Ran, do nothing on a Ran, do nothing on Iran,
do not support Israel, do not support Israel, do not
support Israel. But if Iran is trying to murder Trump,
then we should nuke them. Okay, Ben, that's absolutely wacky.
And look, it's the sign of someone who's not presenting
(25:15):
an argument in good faith. No, we should not be
nuking Iran. That's not a good idea. And by the way,
this is a point where actually facts matter. And part
of what was frustrating about this interview is that Tucker
just says things that are blatantly false and he doesn't
care if they're true or false. So this is an
objective fact. I'm going to read to you from a
(25:37):
political article on November eighth, twenty twenty four, not very
long ago.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Here's the title.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Iran ordered an operative to assassinate Trump before the election.
Federal prosecutors say the alleged would be assassin is believed
to be in Iran and remains at large. Prosecutors said
here's the.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Beginning of the article.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
The Iranian government ordered an operative to assassinate Donald Trump
before the twenty twenty four election, Manhattan Federal prosecutors said Friday,
the latest in a string of assassination plots directed at
the former and future president in recent months. Prosecutors charged
Farhad Shakiri with murder for hire and providing material support
to foreign terrorist organization. He is believed to be in
(26:15):
Iran and remains at large, prosecutors said. The article continues quote.
According to a criminal complaint unsealed in Manhattan Federal Court,
Shakiri said during an FBI interview that in September he
was directed by the Revolutionary Guard Corps of Iran to
surveil and kill Trump, whom the charging papers identify as
(26:37):
victim for When Shakiri told an IRGC official that doing
so would prove expensive, the official responded that money's not
an issue, which Shakiri understood to mean that the IRGC
had previously spent a significant sum of money on efforts
to murder victim four and was willing to continue spending
a lot of money in its attempt to procure victims
(26:57):
for assassination. According to the true charging papers. So there's
literally a Department of Justice indictments specifically against an assassin
for for for attempting to murder Trump. There also, by
the way, was a separate assassin who was arrested for
renting an apartment next to John Bolton, Iranian assassin that
was there to murder Trump's former national security advisor.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
And as I.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Noted, the Iranians put out an entire video, a minute
and a half video. It's an animated video that shows
Donald Trump playing golf and shows the Iranians using a
drone attack to kill him. All of that is is
objectively true, and yet Tucker says, I've never heard a
word of it. I don't know anything about this, and
(27:41):
I want to. I want to play this video right here.
This is in Farsi, but but I want to play it,
and then I'm going to tell you what what he's saying.
So give a listen.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Thought, am I gonna meet how on this?
Speaker 6 (27:51):
Well?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Was than you know?
Speaker 4 (28:01):
I mean mckinzio in file Mondona and Isomi Kingmi? What's
your alone?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
So let's just be queer.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
That's the IRGC commander live on Islamic Republic of Iran
State TV and tell people what he just said.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Well, his name is Amir Ali Hajazade, he's the commander
of the IRGC. He's on national television and he says,
quote God willing will be able to kill Trump, Pompeo,
General McKenzie, and other US commanders. That's on TV now.
Tucker spent the entire interview denying that Iran was trying
(28:44):
to kill President Trump. That's objectively false.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Facts matter.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
And bizarrely, he said, well, if that fact was true,
he thought we should immediately attack Iran and we should Nukran. Well, no,
that's not the case. We should not Nukran, but we
should do what President Trump is doing right now, just
support Israel in taking out a RAN's nuclear capability and
their senior military leadership. That actually makes sense. And I'll
tell you that. The day after our interview aired, President
(29:10):
Trump was asked about the conflict between me and Tucker
in the Oval office. And here give a listen to
the back and forth President Trump had in the Oval
with a reporter. Do you see the Tucker Carl Sitt
and Senator Ted Cruz interview. It seems like this issue
on whether or not the United States should strike is
kind of dividing a lot of your supporters.
Speaker 6 (29:29):
Uh no, my supporter is it for me. My supporters
are America first. They make America great again. My supporters
don't want to see around have a nuclear weapon. Tucker's
a nice guy. He called apologized the other day because
he thought he said thanks for a little bit too strong,
and I appreciated that. And Ted Cruz is a nice guy.
I mean, he's been with me for a long time.
(29:50):
I'd say once the race was over, he's been with
me ever since.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Right, but very simple.
Speaker 6 (29:57):
If they think that it's okay for Aroan to have
a nuclear weapon, then they should oppose me. But nobody
thinks it's okay.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
This goes back to the very beginning and why I
think Tucker was so hostile. He wanted a distraction from
the fact that he had messed up with Trump. He
had to call Trump and apologize, and he thought, all right,
if I just go after Ted Cruz, maybe that'll fix
all my problems.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
I don't think it worked well.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
And look, the reason that Tucker had to apologize to
Trump is that he had been publicly blasting Trump. He
said Trump was complicit in Israel's war and he said
he said what Trump was doing was not America first.
And President Trump tweeted out and said, look, I'm the
one who created America First, and I decide what it is.
And allowing Iran to have a nuclear weapon that is
(30:43):
not America first. And that's exactly what President Trump said
in the oval. You know what's amazing, We've laid out
the facts that is undisputed, by the way, out of
one hundred senators, all one hundred degree, that Iran is
trying to murder President Trump, even the looniest, even Bernie Sanders,
even Elizabeth Warren, doesn't dispute that Iran is trying to
(31:03):
murder Trump because it's an objective fact. I've laid them
out that those facts out repeatedly. You know, Tucker has
not responded once to that. He has not said, oh,
I was wrong on that. He hasn't said, oh well, gosh,
I said if that was the case, we should attack
Ran immediately in nuke them, which, by the way, to
be clear, we should not. At the end of the day,
facts matter, and the good news is the commander in
(31:24):
chief's job is to be clear eyed and do what
is necessary to keep America safe. President Trump is doing that.
I spoke to him just a few days ago and
I said, mister President, thank you, thank you for standing
with Israel, thank you for standing up for America.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Thank you for.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Defending our servicemen and women. You notice Iran has not
attacked our servicemen and women because the President has made
clear the consequences would be massive for doing so. And
President Trump right now is being strong and resolute, and
I'm proud to stand with the President that he is
doing exactly the right thing. He is embodying America first,
(31:59):
and he's keeping this country safe.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
And there's one big definition that has been coming up,
and I've seen it a lot, and I've been asked about,
especially since it's interview, and it's the argument, are the
word isolationists or isolationism?
Speaker 1 (32:16):
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
And then your thoughts on it, Senator, so people understand it,
but also what is your foreign policies so people to
understand you're not an isolationist and you're not one of
those it's like, hey, let's go to war everywhere we
can't either.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And this is something we talked
about quite a bit in the interview with Tucker Carlson,
and when he wasn't screaming at me and it wasn't
a mud mess, we actually laid out some really important
basic philosophy on foreign policy. Look, historically, there have been
two polls in Republican foreign policy. On the one side,
(32:54):
you've had the interventionists. They've been people like John McCain,
people like Lindsey Graham, who who are eager to use
US military force, who are frequently advocating for a robust,
robust use of military force. On the other pole, you
have the isolationist and the most notable of those are
(33:15):
Ron Paul and Ran Paul and Tucker Carlson, I think
is now emphatically in that category as well. And their
view is that America should withdraw from the world, that
we have two giant oceans on both sides, and we
should not employ the military. As Tucker said in an
earlier clip we played, we should never kill anybody, which
which means our military should never engage with our enemies.
(33:39):
I've always considered, and most people look at that and say, Okay,
you got to be one or the other. I've always
thought both views were wrong. I disagree with both. I
disagree with interventionists. I disagree with isolationist. I consider myself
a third point on the triangle. I consider myself a
non interventionist hawk. Now what does that mean. It means
(34:02):
that I am exceptionally reluctant to you at US US
military force. We should have a very high threshold for
sending our sons and daughters into harms. Way, we should
not engage in unnecessary wars. But and this is a
very important butt, the touchstone for all foreign policy and
military action should be the vital national security interest of
(34:24):
the United States. So I opposed the Iraq War. The
Iraq War under George W. Bush, I think was a mistake.
It ended up making America less safe. We toppled a dictator,
Saddam Hussein, who was killing radical Islamic terrorist and what happened.
The radical Islamic terrorists took over and they began killing Americans.
That was bad. I also oppose what happened in Libya.
(34:46):
Kadafi was another dictator. He was killing radical Islamic terrorists.
We toppled Kadafi and the radical Islamic terrorists took over
and began killing Americans. That was bad. The touchstone should
be does the make America more safe? Does this protect Americans?
And the reason I believe that President Trump is exactly
(35:07):
right to support Israel in stopping Iran's nuclear weapons capability
is because Iran with a nuclear weapon poses a clear
threat to the safety and security of America and a
clear threat of murdering a vast number of Americans. That's
why Israel is acting, That's why President Trump is acting.
And I'll point out ben when I say non interventionist talk,
(35:31):
that's a fancy way of saying what President Reagan referred
to as peace through strength. Be strong enough that your
enemies don't want to mess with you. If you want
to avoid war, be strong. When you're weak, When you're isolationist,
you end up with more war because your enemies are
aggressive because they know you're weak. It is also, I
believe exactly what President Trump's foreign policy is. It's what
(35:54):
he has done consistently, and I agree with President Trump's
foreign policy. And I will say that that's true on Iran,
that's true in Israel, but it's also true in Russia.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
And I want you to.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Listen to a back and forth that that that Tucker
and I had on Russia, because that's another area where
clarity is valuable.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
And here, give a listen. I don't think that Putin
loves us.
Speaker 5 (36:16):
I'm distressed by the moral condition of most leaders around
the world.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Most of them they all kill people.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I'm against that.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
I'm just saying I wish to focus here when I
say something.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
I actually don't agree with that statement. They all kill people.
There's a moral relativism. So I don't think Donald Trump
is a murderer. He doesn't kill people.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
We don't have customer Donald Trump a murderer.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
And you just said world leaders all kill people, and
there's a moral relativism.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
I'm hardly a moral relative, but you are.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
You just that statement was the estimated a semi and
isolation moral relativest Okay, no, not do just say world
leaders all killed saying I'm against killing people in general,
so and hyperventilating about how Putin was in the KGB
or whatever.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
I just want to serve American interest and pushing into
Kine is not in our interest at all.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
And you helped you and you haven't apologized. And by
the way, you're the cheerleader. I helped drive him into China.
It's an complete lie. The war against him. No, I
authored the legislation that shut down Nordstream too, that prevented
the war. And if Trump had still been in the
White House, we would have had the war. And look
the comment you made, the reason things like moral relativism
are so dangerous. Oh, everyone kills people. No, there is
(37:23):
a difference to the United States relative. We don't have
concentration camps. We don't torture and murder people. You look
at China where they've got a million prisoners in concentration camps.
You look at Putin where he's got prisoners in Siberia.
He tortures and murders his political opponents. Donald Trump doesn't
do that. America doesn't do that. And by the way,
countries don't do that. I see the game. It's like
(37:46):
you're the rest again. I'm distressed. Though I'm responding with facts.
You don't like the facts. I don't even know what
facts you're talking about. I'm not saying that Trump puts
people in concentration camps. I can't paign for Trump. I
love Trump, so did I Okay, so this is something
with Trump. I'm merely when you said it, druve some
more emphasis on what's happening inside the country.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Is there a moral difference between America and our enemies
in America? And what is it articulated? Its valuable to say, why?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (38:15):
And I think that's one of the biggest differences between
you and Tiger Carlson right there in that conversation.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Yeah, Look, he would not say that Putin was a
bad guy. He would not say that that that President
Trump was right to take out General Solimani. He would
not say that President Trump was right to take out
Al Baghdaddy, the head of ISIS. He would not say
that President Trump was right to take out Isis's caliphate.
And here, I want you to listen to this. Additionally,
back and forth we had on Russia. Say, I don't
(38:42):
understand for some reason, you are really invested in defending
Russian I don't get that.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
I'm not attacking you with that. I'm genuinely like, I.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Don't get why you're you're so passionate about defending Rusger.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I mean, wow, sat the laughing at the end by
him just because you were killing him with the facts
really sums up the entire two hour interview.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
In my opinion, it was an odd thing because he
would say things that were just wildly untrue. He'd said
every world leader kills people, and no, it is not equivalent.
Donald Trump is not equivalent to Vladimir Putin. And that's
frankly something that left to say, and unfortunately isolationists on
the right said it as well. And it's simply not true.
You know, we were having this interview in my office,
(39:26):
and the dominant feature in my office is a gigantic
painting of Ronald Reagan in front of the Brandenburg Gate,
and above him in German are the words tear down
this wall in the style of the graffiti. I think
those are the most important words uttered in modern times,
and they call for the importance of American leadership. Now,
as I may clear this interview, I don't want us
(39:47):
to be at war with Russia. We should not be
at war with Russia. But it doesn't mean we need
to be cheerleaders for Russia, that we need to be
cutting essentially infomercials for Russian and grocery stores. We ought
to speak the truth. And the pulpit of the presidency
is incredibly powerful, and I got to say again, President
Trump is doing that beautifully. The entire point of this
interview was for me to make absolutely clear that on Israel,
(40:10):
on Iran, President Trump is right and Tucker Carlson is wrong,
and we stand with Israel and we will keep the
American people safe.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Make sure you share this podcast with your family and friends,
put it up on social media wherever you are, and
we appreciate you listening every day.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
We'll see you back here tomorrow
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It is the Ben Ferguson Show. It is so nice
to have you with us. All right, So you may
have seen the clips that went viral with Mi co Senter,
Ted Cruz and Tucker Carlson and Center Cruse and I
decided we were going to break down that entire interview
because if you saw the clips and went to literally
hundreds of millions of views, you may not have heard
(00:21):
actually what was said in that two hour interview. And
I want to give you those highlights now. Before I
get to that, I also want to tell you about
what is going on with Donald Trump and Iran in
Israel and the latest what we now know is that
the President is now saying that he could give an
(00:42):
essence up to two weeks to make a decision if
he is going to bomb a RAN's main nuclear site,
which is deep underground in that mountain side. There is
a couple reasons why this could be happening. I want
you to understand it. Number One, there are a lot
of ships that are needing to go through the stratif moves,
which Iran could try to in essence, cut off twenty
(01:05):
five percent of all the oil in the world goes
through there every day and twenty percent of natural gas
goes through there, So there is some logistical training, you know,
issues there that they need to get done, and giving
more time to do that could be huge from an
energy perspective.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
That's one issue.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Number two, There's there's no doubt that Iran will retaliate
if America is the one that bombs and blows up
that nuclear site. So there's there's targets we want to
protect and harden. We also have assets that are going
in to the Middle East. Our carriers and striker groups
are going. We want to give them time to make
sure they're there to respond if i randicides to take
(01:46):
an attack, whether it's using drones or other things against
American interest American.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Troops in the Middle East.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
There's then the third part of the reason why the
President may be given this two weeks, and that is
because you have a bunch of countries in Europe. They're
going to be meeting today and they're going to be
meeting with leadership from Iran. Maybe something good can come
out of that. They'll have time to report back to
the White House. Maybe we can get disarmament and avoid
(02:13):
this entire you know throwdown. But what Donald Trump has
said is I'm going to decide on the Ranian strikes
within the next two weeks. So within the next two
weeks means it could be tomorrow, could be later today,
it could be three days from now, five days from now,
thirteen days from now. You get my point. But there's
a lot of logistical things that could be happening.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Now.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
The final point on this I want to be clear
about also before we get into this tug Carlson and
Ted Cruz. Thing that I want you to hear is
some of this could also be Israel saying, hey, we've
got more attacks that we want and more targets that
we want to go after in Iran before you guys
basically put the the you know, the the cherry on
top of the Sunday so we're not finished with our
(02:55):
work and we don't want you to hit this thing,
and then I'll still be bombing, and then there's some
confused usion. There are people they're demanding that we stop.
So there's multiple different aspects of why there's a real
good chance that the President said, all right, I'm going
to have this two week you know, decide within the
next two weeks, and Iran is saying, look, third party
(03:17):
intervention would spark immediate reaction. That's their words. They're not
backing down, they're hardlining. But they are meeting with these
European nations today, so we'll see what comes out of that.
So I want to give you that update for you.
First off, Now, if you saw Tucker Carlson lose his
mind against Ted Cruz, it was a very odd and
weird interview. There's a lot of people asking the question,
(03:38):
why is like our own team fighting against each other
right now? What was the reasoning behind Tuger Carlson doing this.
I think it's pretty clear Tucker Carlson was taking a
lot of heat for publicly attacking Donald Trump, and Donald
Trump slap backed really hard at Tucker Carlson. I think
he needed a distraction and he thought, oh, I'll have
(04:00):
Ted Cruz on, I'll get a war going with Ted Cruz.
That'll get the focus off Donald Trump coming after me
after I went after Donald Trump. Now, since then, we
know that tug Carlson has actually called the President and
apologized to the President. It doesn't mean, though, that this
whole interview didn't actually happen. So I want you to
hear this take a listen. But let's just start with
the basic question that I think so many people have
(04:22):
been asking me when they saw the sibbits of this interview,
and I would actually encourage people to watch the entire interview,
not just the little things that popped on social media,
but number one like why did you decide to do
this interview with him?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
And did do you think it was going to be
like this?
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Well, let me start with the second part.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
First.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yes, I knew exactly what it was going to be.
I knew that Tucker when he asked for the interview,
I know that he was doing it to come after me.
I knew he was going to come in and just
be swinging as hard as he could.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
And I went in.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
I wasn't looking to pick a fight, and in fact,
we started the interview with my pointing out. I said, Tucker, listen,
you and I we agree on about eighty percent of issues.
We agree across the board. And I said, Tucker, you
have been fantastic on a ton of issues. You've been
fantastic on securing the border. That is a deep passion
of mine. We have got to secure the border. And
(05:17):
when Joe Biden the Democrats had opened borders. You were
ferocious in fighting for that which I have been fighting
alongside that with all my might. I will say during COVID,
during the COVID lockdowns, Tucker was phenomenal. In fact, to
the middle of the COVID lockdowns. I called Tucker back
when he had a show on Fox, and I told him,
I said, Tucker, your evening monologues are the single best
(05:40):
thing on television. I listen to them. I consume them
like crack every night because they are so good. Because
he was speaking out, he was speaking out powerfully against
the insanity of shutting down our country, against the insanity
of shutting down small businesses, against the insanity of shutting
down churches, against the insanity of shutting down schools. And
over ten million kids did not go to in person
(06:02):
school for.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Over a year.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
And by the way, the data all show the learning
loss to kids from that idiotic social experiment is going
to be with them their entire life. I think ten, twenty, thirty,
forty years from now, we're going to look back and say,
what idiocy prompted this country to shut down schools and
hurt so many kids. So on all of those issues
on free speech on the Second Amendment. Tucker's been fantastic,
(06:26):
and we aren't exactly the same page on all of
those issues. Now, I did acknowledge there are issues on
which we disagree. I knew that Tucker wanted the interview
because he wanted to come after me, and I knew
that it was going to be particularly spicy, a lot
of fireworks, because Tucker in the last week has gotten
(06:47):
really crosswise with President Trump. Tucker has blasted the President
and said that the President was complicit in Israel's war.
He said that the President's actions were not consistent with
America first. And so I knew that Tucker was going
to be hot and that I was going to be
the target to take his I r out. But I
(07:07):
did the interview because listen, although Tucker is right on
a whole lot of issues on foreign policy, I think
he's gone really off the rails. He has gotten to
a place of hardcore isolationism that I think is really dangerous.
It's not good for America. I disagree with it. He
does not want America to support Israel, he does not
(07:29):
want America to do anything to stop Iran from getting
a nuclear weapon, and he is vocally and vigorously disagreeing
with President Trump. And I thought it was important for
me to do this interview to explain what President Trump
is doing and to defend the president, to stand with
President Trump. And I got to tell you, the entire
theme of my interview was very simple. Donald Trump is right,
(07:53):
and Tucker on Iran and Israel, you're wrong. And that
was the whole point of the interview that came across
at great length. Now, we did the interview and on Tuesday,
and then Tucker released it on Wednesday. But before Wednesday,
he released a little stippet and in two hours. Look,
I'm going to give Tucker some credit, he had a
(08:13):
little gotcha moment. So two hours of back and forth
and back and forth and back and forth, and he
decided to play a little gotcha moment. So so in
the course of talking about Iran, he asks me, he says, well,
what's the population of Iran? And I thought about it
for a second and realized I didn't actually know the
exact population of Iran, and so I just said I
don't know, and he did the sort of classic Tucker.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
What how can you not know that?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
And I mean, he was, you know, vibrating and looking
as if I had, you know, admitted to I don't know,
committing treason or something. And I just said, look, I
don't I don't memorize population tables and and and he
comes in with with great, great joy and says and
I asked him, I said, what's the population of a
(08:59):
r He says ninety two million. Actually, according to the
Google searches afterwards, it's eighty nine million, So he was
off three million, which I think is funny because I
assume he Google searched it right before the interview so
he could do his little gotcha. And I'll confess this
may not be terribly credible, but the truth of the
matter is in my head what I was going to say,
if I was guessing, was ninety million, So I was
(09:21):
actually felt pretty good. I'm like, huh, all right, pretty
damn close. But I said, look, what difference does it
make if it's ninety million or eighty million or a
hundred million. And the reason I didn't want to positive
guess is because stupid and unfair interviews. You play gotcha's
on this and I'll say things like population numbers. There
are all sorts of countries across the globe that have
(09:42):
sort of really surprising populations, that they can have populations
that are either significantly bigger than you would think, are
significantly smaller than you would think. And at the end
of the day, what I was talking about, which is
the Iatola, theocratic radical lunatic who chanced death to American
is trying to develop a nuclear weapon. The thread of
that is not remotely different whether Iran has a population
(10:06):
of eighty million, ninety million, or a hundred million. So
it was an irrelevant gotcha. But that little clip, what
Tucker did is he released it a day before the
whole interview, so he picked out of two hours. He
thought that was the best sixty seconds because he did
get me to say the words I don't know, and
he felt very gleeful on that I got to say.
The rest of the interview as it played out, there's
(10:26):
a reason he wanted to start with that clip. And
that clip went viral, and that's fine, but there's a
reason he wanted to start with that clip because the
rest of the interview. Tucker's positions on Israel were very clear.
He didn't want to stand with Israel. He was and
we're going to lay this out in the course of
the show, deeply opposed to Israel, and he was deeply
(10:48):
opposed to President Trump's policy, and in fact, he had
been in writing and vocally attacking President Trump. And he
didn't want to talk about that in terms of putting
it out the results of the interview. But that's why
I did the interview.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I gotta ask you a question.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Are you one of those that's just so tired of
giving your money to radical left woke companies that actually
are fighting against your values every day?
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Well, there are certain bills that you pay.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Every month that if you can go with a conservative company,
why not do it? In fact, why not go with
a conservative company that actually takes part of your bill
every month that you're going to pay to somebody, and
they give it back to organizations that support your First
and your Second Amendment rights, that support the rights of
unborn children, that stand with our military are first responders
(11:35):
and so many wounded warriors that need help. Well, that
bill I'm talking about is your cell phone bill. And
I've been telling you for a long time about Patriot Mobile,
But there's no better time to switch than right now.
Not only does Patriot Mobile operate on all three major
networks in this country.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, all three. That means you get the same great coverage.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
You're used to right now, but you also make a
difference with every call you make and every text you make.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
And why would you want to give your mond a
big Mobile?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Big Mobile has been giving big donations to democratic causes,
democratic candidates, and radical left organizations. I'm talking about organizations
that actually support abortion. That is why I want you
to switch right now to Patriot Mobile. Go ahead and
make the switch, And it's so easy. All you have
(12:26):
to do is simply call Patriot Mobiles one hundred percent
US based team from the comfort of your home or
your office and they'll have you activated in minutes. And
if you're still locked in a contract, not a problem.
Patriots Mobile contract buyout program covers up to five hundred
dollars per device. Keep your same number, keep your phone,
or upgrade do a new one. So back to my point,
(12:47):
what are you waiting for? Call Patriot Mobile today and
make a difference every single day with every call you make.
Patriot Mobile dot com slash ferguson that's Patriot Mobile dot
com slash ferguson or nine seven two Patriot And if
you use the promo code ferguson, you're gonna get a
free month of service on top of that Patrion mobile
(13:09):
dot com slash ferguson or nine seven to patriot. That's
Patriot mobile dot com slash ferguson nine seven to two Patriot.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
So I've done interviews that have been pretty snarky.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
I worked at seen In for a long time as
a conservative commentator.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Are you glad you did the interview?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Because I always got that question, and it's the same
one I know a lot of people want to ask.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
You, absolutely one thousand percent.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Look, could the interview have been much better? If Tucker
had wanted to sit down and have a reasonable, thoughtful conversation,
let me speak, let him speak, us go back and
forth and lay out different visions of foreign policy, that
would have been a much much better interview. But Tucker
didn't want to do that. When he didn't like what
you're saying, he interrupts, he gets snarky, he insults you,
(13:55):
and you're gonna hear all of that because that's what
he did.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
But that's fine.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
I mean, he decided he wanted this interview to be
the two of us scream at each other. So that's
what it ended up being. But I'm very glad because
it was important to lay out the contrast. Donald Trump
is right and Tucker Carlson is wrong on Israel and Iran,
and I wanted to make that absolutely clear.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
One of the big differences between the two of you
was on what success looks like, especially when it comes
to Israel taking out top Iranian military leadership.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Well, that's exactly right. Israel right now is taking out
the senior Iranian military leadership. And this is a regime.
When the Iatola chants death to America, I believe him
when he chanced death to Israel. I believe him. When
he calls Israel the little Satan in America the great Satan,
I believe that he believes that. And so the Iatola's
(14:50):
efforts to develop nuclear weapons they are designed for one
very specific purpose, which is to be able to attack
Israel and America. And let me point out, by the way,
there is a reason the Ayatola has an ICBM program.
ICBM stands for intercontinental ballistic missile. You do not need
an ICBM to attack Israel right now. Iran is pounding
(15:13):
Israel with ballistic missiles. But Israel is relatively close to Iran.
Iran wants an ICBM for one purpose and one purpose only,
to be able to carry a nuclear warhead to the
United States of America. And so that is the threat
we are facing. And Israel is doing an enormous favor
to America by taking out Iran's nuclear capability. Here give
(15:36):
a listen to Tucker and me discussing exactly this point.
Do you want to ask how to supporting Israel benefit us?
Right now, this tiny little country the size of the
state of New Jersey is fighting our enemies for us
and taking out their top military leadership and trying to
take out their nuclear capacity.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
That makes America much safer.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Right by the way, You're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
I mean Israel is taking out top peranium mili to
your leadership. And yes, Israel is fighting our enemies right
now for US, and not just America, but many other
countries around the world.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Well, and it benefits America. Understand, these nuclear weapons are
being developed so they can attack America. And and and
it's not American soldiers who are taking out these nuclear facilities,
it is it is Israeli commandos who are doing so
that's something we should be grateful for But but Tucker
Carlson has been vigorously criticizing President Trump for standing with
(16:31):
Israel on this and and and here's another segment with
with with Tucker and me discussing this point.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
Is that that I'm willing to spend money opposed to
that it's awful. I am against killing anybody actually, and
especially foreign government. I'm asking about your allegation and the
Prime Minister of Israel's allegation.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
That killing terrorists is a good thing.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Killing people are trying to murder Americans is a good
thing because if you're America first, you want to protect Americans.
So taking out killing O'sallovan Laden was a fantastic But
you don't believe that they're trying to murder Trump or
you say it, yes, but why are you senator?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
You said earlier in the interview with him at the
beginning and on this show that you and Tucker agree
on about eighty percent of the issues, like hardcore lockstep.
But this one here is maybe the most insane point
where Tucker's like, Hey, I don't want to kill anybody
around the world, no matter what I'm like, hold on,
if you had a chance to take out Hitler, You
wouldn't have done it?
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Well, this is unfortunately a point that frankly, you see
from a lot of people on the far left. You
see from the sort of Jimmy Carter's of the world,
and even Barack Obama's, the kind of piece nicks that say, man,
all war is bad. Just just you know, killing is bad.
I'm just opposed to killing. And I get that that
sounds good in a college faculty lounge. But as I
(17:55):
asked him in the course of it, I'm like, do
you think it's bad that we killed Osama bin Laden?
Do you think it's bad that that that Hitler's dead?
Do you think it's bad that we killed General Solomony?
Do you think it's bad that And let's be clear
that President Trump killed General Solomony. I asked him that
he wouldn't answer, that, he wouldn't ask answer if it
was if it was good or bad that we killed
(18:16):
Osama bin Laden. That the idea that we should never
kill anybody is an incredibly naive and unrealistic position. Look,
I think we should avoid unnecessary wars. I think we
should be very reluctant to put American servicemen and women
in harm's way. But when you have terrorists, killing Osama
bin Laden was a great day for America and a
(18:37):
great day for the world because Osama bin Laden murdered
thousands of Americans and waged war against America. And anyone
who is actually focused on America first and defending this
nation understands that there are dangerous people that are trying
to kill Americans and it's the job of the commander
in chief to keep them safe. Now, I will say,
(18:59):
in a two hour interview, one of the things that
was striking is thirty six minutes of the interview was
Tucker attacking me for supporting Israel, and in particular, he
was obsessed with APAC. APAC is the America Israel Political
(19:20):
Action Committee, and he was going on and on and
on about how APAC should have to register under FARH,
the law that requires that organizations that are lobbying on
behalf of foreign governments have to register. Now, APAK is
not lobbying on behalf of a foreign government. APAC consists
of Americans. It is Americans who are standing up. Now.
(19:41):
There are Americans who want a strong US Israel relationship,
but they are not a lobbyist for the Nation of Israel,
and all told, he asked twenty eight questions on APAC
twenty eight questions. He asked thirty five questions on why
I was supporting Israel, and finally it had led to
this moment, which which was quite a bit of fireworks. Here,
(20:03):
give a listen. By the way, Tucker, it's a very
weird thing, the obsession with Israel. Well, we're talking about
foreign country. You're not talking about Chinese, you're not talking
about Japanese. I'm talking about the Brits, You're not talking
about the French. The question what about the Jews? What
about the Jews? Semi Now, Senator, you're just in the question, Tucker,
(20:23):
you're asking why are the Jews controlling our foreign policy?
Speaker 5 (20:26):
That's what you just asked, hardly saying that, and I
have that. That's exactly what you just said.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
It is, by the way, exactly what you're saying over
and over again, as you mentioned for so long and again,
the demonization of Americans and many of them they are
Jewish that advocate for Israel in America and saying they
should be foreign lobbyist organization. Look, I've spoken at one
of their events before. I'm sure you've spoken it countless
events for them before. The idea that there's some foreign
(20:53):
agency is absurd.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
And he also had a whole lot of inquiry, isn't
it horrible that Israel spy on America? My response was,
every one of our allies spies on America. We spy
on every one of our allies. That's real politique, that's
the world we live in. And he could not acknowledge
that point. He said, no, no, but Israel does it. It's
terrible that Israel does it. And it was bizarrely focused. Okay, look,
(21:17):
the Brits spy on us, the Canadian spy on us,
the French spy on us. Everybody spies on us, and
we spy on everybody. Welcome to reality. Because conservatives are
not simple and naive, and yet the criticism that is
directed at Israel sadly is unique and I think really unfortunate.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I want to get back into the Tucker Carlson interview
that you did and center there was some interesting themes
that came out of this interview. He was obviously attacking you,
he was attacking Israel, he was attacking groups that support Israel.
But then there was an even weirder point where I
think Tucker probably is hoping that we don't play this
(21:56):
or that people didn't watch the whole interview and hear
this part. It was about the Iranian regime. They've been
trying to murder Donald Trump. They've hired hitman, They've been
trying to hire hitman. They've come after former cabinet members
of Donald Trump. And when you brought it up, he
acted like he'd never heard of this before and that
you were either lying or this is shocking news to him.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, this was utterly bizarre, and I got to say,
in the whole course of the two hour interview, this
was the strangest portion. For the last two years, Iran
has been actively trying to murder President Donald Trump. Iran
has hired hitman to murder President Trump, and Ran also
has been trying to murder Mike Pompeo, President Trump's former
secretary of State, John Bolton, President Trump's former national security advisor,
(22:40):
and Brian Hook, President Trump's former assistant secretary of State.
All of them, Iran has hired hitman and has been
targeting them bizarrely, and this has been widely reported. These
are objective facts, but Bizarrely, Tucker Carlson assisted insisted this
has never happened.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Here, give a listen.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
I just want to pull that thread because it's so important.
I voted for Donald Trump. I can't paign for Donald Trump.
He's our president and won the custom of a war.
So if Iran, if there's evidence that Iran paid hitman
to kill Donald Trump and is currently doing that, where's that?
What are you even talking I've never heard that before. Okay,
where is the evidence? Who are these people? Why haven't
they been arrested? Why are we not at war with Iran?
(23:18):
That's a great question to ask. How do you know
that that's true.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
We know that it's true because we have been told
that by the military at our intelligence community for the
last two years. We meaning who Congress has in the public.
I mean, I had multiple testimonies. I can send you
test We know the names.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Of the people are where this happened, or what they
tried to do to kill Trump.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
We do not.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
We have not apprehended an Iranian hit man trying to
kill him. We know that Iran is trying to do
so in the United States. Yes, and by the way,
like Iran, this.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Just seems like a huge headline, and you're acting like
everyone knows this. I didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Iran put out a whole video about murdering Trump.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
Right, but I've never heard evidence that there are hitmen
in the United States, I mean trying to kill Trump
right now, we should like have a nationwide drag dowd
on this and we should attack Iran immediately if that's true.
Don't you think no, but they're trying to assassinate our president.
They have been for two years. They are with them.
Well we are trying, why don't we just nuke tear
(24:21):
If they're trying to murder our president. There's nothing that
you could do that would be worse for the United
States than murdering Trump. And I just don't understand why
you're not calling for the use of nuclear weapons against
the eye tootal right now, I'm serious.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
If if you really.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Believe there's a nuclear weapons whatever hits the problem of
so mean, you don't seem to take the allegation seriously.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
I do.
Speaker 5 (24:40):
If you believe they're trying to murder Trump, we need
to stop what we're doing and punish them.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I mean, insanely bizarre.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
We went from let's not do anything to Oh, they're
trying to kill Trump. Well, if that's true, let's just
nuke them.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
So you're right.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
The entire two hours, Tucker's position was, do nothing on
a Ran, do nothing on a Ran, do nothing on Iran,
do not support Israel, do not support Israel, do not
support Israel. But if Iran is trying to murder Trump,
then we should nuke them. Okay, Ben, that's absolutely wacky.
And look, it's the sign of someone who's not presenting
(25:15):
an argument in good faith. No, we should not be
nuking Iran. That's not a good idea. And by the way,
this is a point where actually facts matter. And part
of what was frustrating about this interview is that Tucker
just says things that are blatantly false and he doesn't
care if they're true or false. So this is an
objective fact. I'm going to read to you from a
(25:37):
political article on November eighth, twenty twenty four, not very
long ago.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Here's the title.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Iran ordered an operative to assassinate Trump before the election.
Federal prosecutors say the alleged would be assassin is believed
to be in Iran and remains at large. Prosecutors said
here's the.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Beginning of the article.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
The Iranian government ordered an operative to assassinate Donald Trump
before the twenty twenty four election, Manhattan Federal prosecutors said Friday,
the latest in a string of assassination plots directed at
the former and future president in recent months. Prosecutors charged
Farhad Shakiri with murder for hire and providing material support
to foreign terrorist organization. He is believed to be in
(26:15):
Iran and remains at large, prosecutors said. The article continues quote.
According to a criminal complaint unsealed in Manhattan Federal Court,
Shakiri said during an FBI interview that in September he
was directed by the Revolutionary Guard Corps of Iran to
surveil and kill Trump, whom the charging papers identify as
(26:37):
victim for When Shakiri told an IRGC official that doing
so would prove expensive, the official responded that money's not
an issue, which Shakiri understood to mean that the IRGC
had previously spent a significant sum of money on efforts
to murder victim four and was willing to continue spending
a lot of money in its attempt to procure victims
(26:57):
for assassination. According to the true charging papers. So there's
literally a Department of Justice indictments specifically against an assassin
for for for attempting to murder Trump. There also, by
the way, was a separate assassin who was arrested for
renting an apartment next to John Bolton, Iranian assassin that
was there to murder Trump's former national security advisor.
Speaker 4 (27:20):
And as I.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Noted, the Iranians put out an entire video, a minute
and a half video. It's an animated video that shows
Donald Trump playing golf and shows the Iranians using a
drone attack to kill him. All of that is is
objectively true, and yet Tucker says, I've never heard a
word of it. I don't know anything about this, and
(27:41):
I want to. I want to play this video right here.
This is in Farsi, but but I want to play it,
and then I'm going to tell you what what he's saying.
So give a listen.
Speaker 4 (27:49):
Thought, am I gonna meet how on this?
Speaker 6 (27:51):
Well?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Was than you know?
Speaker 4 (28:01):
I mean mckinzio in file Mondona and Isomi Kingmi? What's
your alone?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
So let's just be queer.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
That's the IRGC commander live on Islamic Republic of Iran
State TV and tell people what he just said.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Well, his name is Amir Ali Hajazade, he's the commander
of the IRGC. He's on national television and he says,
quote God willing will be able to kill Trump, Pompeo,
General McKenzie, and other US commanders. That's on TV now.
Tucker spent the entire interview denying that Iran was trying
(28:44):
to kill President Trump. That's objectively false.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Facts matter.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
And bizarrely, he said, well, if that fact was true,
he thought we should immediately attack Iran and we should Nukran. Well, no,
that's not the case. We should not Nukran, but we
should do what President Trump is doing right now, just
support Israel in taking out a RAN's nuclear capability and
their senior military leadership. That actually makes sense. And I'll
tell you that. The day after our interview aired, President
(29:10):
Trump was asked about the conflict between me and Tucker
in the Oval office. And here give a listen to
the back and forth President Trump had in the Oval
with a reporter. Do you see the Tucker Carl Sitt
and Senator Ted Cruz interview. It seems like this issue
on whether or not the United States should strike is
kind of dividing a lot of your supporters.
Speaker 6 (29:29):
Uh no, my supporter is it for me. My supporters
are America first. They make America great again. My supporters
don't want to see around have a nuclear weapon. Tucker's
a nice guy. He called apologized the other day because
he thought he said thanks for a little bit too strong,
and I appreciated that. And Ted Cruz is a nice guy.
I mean, he's been with me for a long time.
(29:50):
I'd say once the race was over, he's been with
me ever since.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Right, but very simple.
Speaker 6 (29:57):
If they think that it's okay for Aroan to have
a nuclear weapon, then they should oppose me. But nobody
thinks it's okay.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
This goes back to the very beginning and why I
think Tucker was so hostile. He wanted a distraction from
the fact that he had messed up with Trump. He
had to call Trump and apologize, and he thought, all right,
if I just go after Ted Cruz, maybe that'll fix
all my problems.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
I don't think it worked well.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
And look, the reason that Tucker had to apologize to
Trump is that he had been publicly blasting Trump. He
said Trump was complicit in Israel's war and he said
he said what Trump was doing was not America first.
And President Trump tweeted out and said, look, I'm the
one who created America First, and I decide what it is.
And allowing Iran to have a nuclear weapon that is
(30:43):
not America first. And that's exactly what President Trump said
in the oval. You know what's amazing, We've laid out
the facts that is undisputed, by the way, out of
one hundred senators, all one hundred degree, that Iran is
trying to murder President Trump, even the looniest, even Bernie Sanders,
even Elizabeth Warren, doesn't dispute that Iran is trying to
(31:03):
murder Trump because it's an objective fact. I've laid them
out that those facts out repeatedly. You know, Tucker has
not responded once to that. He has not said, oh,
I was wrong on that. He hasn't said, oh well, gosh,
I said if that was the case, we should attack
Ran immediately in nuke them, which, by the way, to
be clear, we should not. At the end of the day,
facts matter, and the good news is the commander in
(31:24):
chief's job is to be clear eyed and do what
is necessary to keep America safe. President Trump is doing that.
I spoke to him just a few days ago and
I said, mister President, thank you, thank you for standing
with Israel, thank you for standing up for America.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Thank you for.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Defending our servicemen and women. You notice Iran has not
attacked our servicemen and women because the President has made
clear the consequences would be massive for doing so. And
President Trump right now is being strong and resolute, and
I'm proud to stand with the President that he is
doing exactly the right thing. He is embodying America first,
(31:59):
and he's keeping this country safe.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
And there's one big definition that has been coming up,
and I've seen it a lot, and I've been asked about,
especially since it's interview, and it's the argument, are the
word isolationists or isolationism?
Speaker 1 (32:16):
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (32:17):
And then your thoughts on it, Senator, so people understand it,
but also what is your foreign policies so people to
understand you're not an isolationist and you're not one of
those it's like, hey, let's go to war everywhere we
can't either.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Yeah, that's exactly right. And this is something we talked
about quite a bit in the interview with Tucker Carlson,
and when he wasn't screaming at me and it wasn't
a mud mess, we actually laid out some really important
basic philosophy on foreign policy. Look, historically, there have been
two polls in Republican foreign policy. On the one side,
(32:54):
you've had the interventionists. They've been people like John McCain,
people like Lindsey Graham, who who are eager to use
US military force, who are frequently advocating for a robust,
robust use of military force. On the other pole, you
have the isolationist and the most notable of those are
(33:15):
Ron Paul and Ran Paul and Tucker Carlson, I think
is now emphatically in that category as well. And their
view is that America should withdraw from the world, that
we have two giant oceans on both sides, and we
should not employ the military. As Tucker said in an
earlier clip we played, we should never kill anybody, which
which means our military should never engage with our enemies.
(33:39):
I've always considered, and most people look at that and say, Okay,
you got to be one or the other. I've always
thought both views were wrong. I disagree with both. I
disagree with interventionists. I disagree with isolationist. I consider myself
a third point on the triangle. I consider myself a
non interventionist hawk. Now what does that mean. It means
(34:02):
that I am exceptionally reluctant to you at US US
military force. We should have a very high threshold for
sending our sons and daughters into harms. Way, we should
not engage in unnecessary wars. But and this is a
very important butt, the touchstone for all foreign policy and
military action should be the vital national security interest of
(34:24):
the United States. So I opposed the Iraq War. The
Iraq War under George W. Bush, I think was a mistake.
It ended up making America less safe. We toppled a dictator,
Saddam Hussein, who was killing radical Islamic terrorist and what happened.
The radical Islamic terrorists took over and they began killing Americans.
That was bad. I also oppose what happened in Libya.
(34:46):
Kadafi was another dictator. He was killing radical Islamic terrorists.
We toppled Kadafi and the radical Islamic terrorists took over
and began killing Americans. That was bad. The touchstone should
be does the make America more safe? Does this protect Americans?
And the reason I believe that President Trump is exactly
(35:07):
right to support Israel in stopping Iran's nuclear weapons capability
is because Iran with a nuclear weapon poses a clear
threat to the safety and security of America and a
clear threat of murdering a vast number of Americans. That's
why Israel is acting, That's why President Trump is acting.
And I'll point out ben when I say non interventionist talk,
(35:31):
that's a fancy way of saying what President Reagan referred
to as peace through strength. Be strong enough that your
enemies don't want to mess with you. If you want
to avoid war, be strong. When you're weak, When you're isolationist,
you end up with more war because your enemies are
aggressive because they know you're weak. It is also, I
believe exactly what President Trump's foreign policy is. It's what
(35:54):
he has done consistently, and I agree with President Trump's
foreign policy. And I will say that that's true on Iran,
that's true in Israel, but it's also true in Russia.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
And I want you to.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Listen to a back and forth that that that Tucker
and I had on Russia, because that's another area where
clarity is valuable.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
And here, give a listen. I don't think that Putin
loves us.
Speaker 5 (36:16):
I'm distressed by the moral condition of most leaders around
the world.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Most of them they all kill people.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I'm against that.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
I'm just saying I wish to focus here when I
say something.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
I actually don't agree with that statement. They all kill people.
There's a moral relativism. So I don't think Donald Trump
is a murderer. He doesn't kill people.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
We don't have customer Donald Trump a murderer.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
And you just said world leaders all kill people, and
there's a moral relativism.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
I'm hardly a moral relative, but you are.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
You just that statement was the estimated a semi and
isolation moral relativest Okay, no, not do just say world
leaders all killed saying I'm against killing people in general,
so and hyperventilating about how Putin was in the KGB
or whatever.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
I just want to serve American interest and pushing into
Kine is not in our interest at all.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
And you helped you and you haven't apologized. And by
the way, you're the cheerleader. I helped drive him into China.
It's an complete lie. The war against him. No, I
authored the legislation that shut down Nordstream too, that prevented
the war. And if Trump had still been in the
White House, we would have had the war. And look
the comment you made, the reason things like moral relativism
are so dangerous. Oh, everyone kills people. No, there is
(37:23):
a difference to the United States relative. We don't have
concentration camps. We don't torture and murder people. You look
at China where they've got a million prisoners in concentration camps.
You look at Putin where he's got prisoners in Siberia.
He tortures and murders his political opponents. Donald Trump doesn't
do that. America doesn't do that. And by the way,
countries don't do that. I see the game. It's like
(37:46):
you're the rest again. I'm distressed. Though I'm responding with facts.
You don't like the facts. I don't even know what
facts you're talking about. I'm not saying that Trump puts
people in concentration camps. I can't paign for Trump. I
love Trump, so did I Okay, so this is something
with Trump. I'm merely when you said it, druve some
more emphasis on what's happening inside the country.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Is there a moral difference between America and our enemies
in America? And what is it articulated? Its valuable to say, why?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (38:15):
And I think that's one of the biggest differences between
you and Tiger Carlson right there in that conversation.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Yeah, Look, he would not say that Putin was a
bad guy. He would not say that that that President
Trump was right to take out General Solimani. He would
not say that President Trump was right to take out
Al Baghdaddy, the head of ISIS. He would not say
that President Trump was right to take out Isis's caliphate.
And here, I want you to listen to this. Additionally,
back and forth we had on Russia. Say, I don't
(38:42):
understand for some reason, you are really invested in defending
Russian I don't get that.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
I'm not attacking you with that. I'm genuinely like, I.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Don't get why you're you're so passionate about defending Rusger.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I mean, wow, sat the laughing at the end by
him just because you were killing him with the facts
really sums up the entire two hour interview.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
In my opinion, it was an odd thing because he
would say things that were just wildly untrue. He'd said
every world leader kills people, and no, it is not equivalent.
Donald Trump is not equivalent to Vladimir Putin. And that's
frankly something that left to say, and unfortunately isolationists on
the right said it as well. And it's simply not true.
You know, we were having this interview in my office,
(39:26):
and the dominant feature in my office is a gigantic
painting of Ronald Reagan in front of the Brandenburg Gate,
and above him in German are the words tear down
this wall in the style of the graffiti. I think
those are the most important words uttered in modern times,
and they call for the importance of American leadership. Now,
as I may clear this interview, I don't want us
(39:47):
to be at war with Russia. We should not be
at war with Russia. But it doesn't mean we need
to be cheerleaders for Russia, that we need to be
cutting essentially infomercials for Russian and grocery stores. We ought
to speak the truth. And the pulpit of the presidency
is incredibly powerful, and I got to say again, President
Trump is doing that beautifully. The entire point of this
interview was for me to make absolutely clear that on Israel,
(40:10):
on Iran, President Trump is right and Tucker Carlson is wrong,
and we stand with Israel and we will keep the
American people safe.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
Make sure you share this podcast with your family and friends,
put it up on social media wherever you are, and
we appreciate you listening every day.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
We'll see you back here tomorrow
Host
Ben Ferguson
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides.  Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer  Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.