October 29, 2025 • 48 mins
1. Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s Personal Journey:
- Born in Somalia in 1969, raised in a Muslim household.
- Fled to the Netherlands in 1992 to escape a forced marriage.
- Became a Dutch citizen, studied political science, and served in the Dutch Parliament.
- Transitioned from Islam to atheism, and later converted to Christianity.
- Currently a research fellow at the Hoover Institution and founder of the AHA Foundation.
2. Defining Political Islam vs. Islam as a Religion:
- Hirsi Ali distinguishes between Islam as a religion and Islamism (political Islam).
- She describes Islamism as a totalitarian ideology aiming to establish Islamic dominance globally.
- Emphasizes the threat posed by groups like the Muslim Brotherhood, which she compares to a “termite infestation” due to their subversive tactics.
3. The Muslim Brotherhood:
- Founded in 1928 by Hassan al-Banna in Egypt.
- Described as a decentralized, global movement using both peaceful and violent means to infiltrate societies.
- Hirsi Ali and Cruz advocate for its designation as a terrorist organization in the U.S.
4. The Red-Green Alliance:
- A term used to describe the alliance between radical Islamists (green) and Marxist/communist groups (red).
- Hirsi Ali warns that this alliance is strategically dangerous and aims to undermine Western democratic institutions.
5. Sharia Law and Its Implications:
- Hirsi Ali outlines the oppressive nature of Sharia law, especially toward women and LGBTQ individuals.
- She warns of the potential consequences if Islamist ideologies gain influence in Western societies.
6. Islamist Influence in Europe and the U.S.:
- Hirsi Ali and Cruz discuss the rise of Islamist influence in European cities and the potential for similar developments in the U.S.
- They express concern over political figures like Zohran Mamdani and Ilhan Omar, suggesting they represent the Red-Green alliance.
7. Persecution of Christians in Nigeria:
- Cruz and Hirsi Ali highlight the mass murder of Christians by Boko Haram and other Islamist groups.
- They criticize the Nigerian government for its inaction and call for U.S. sanctions and accountability.
8. Recognition of Somaliland:
- Hirsi Ali supports recognizing Somaliland as an independent nation.
- She praises its democratic governance, stability, and alignment with Western values.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome. It is Verdict with Center, Ted Cruz Ben Ferguson
with you, and today's episode is going to be a
very special one with a very special guest, and I
hope that you will take this episode and share it
on social media. Also, if you want to watch it
on YouTube, it's there. Because Center, we're dealing with a
very important and also a very tough subject right now
that is on the minds of a lot of Americans,
(00:22):
and I want you to explain why we decide to
this show and also introduce our guests.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well, we're going to be focusing today on the rise
of radical Islam in America and also the rise of
radical Islam across the globe. And we're going to talk
about Comrade Mondami, who we devoted the entire last podcast
to his rise in New York, to the very real
possibility that we will have a communist, a Marxist jihadist
(00:50):
as the next mayor of New York and how frightening
that is. We're going to talk also about the Muslim
Brotherhood and what the Muslim Brotherhood is and why I
am leading the fight to have them the Brotherhood declared
a terrorist organization. We're going to talk about what's happening
in Nigeria, about the systematic mass murder of Christians in
Nigeria by Boko Haram and other radical Islamic terrorists. And
(01:13):
we're also going to talk about Somalia and the prospect
of America recognizing Somaliland, and how we can fight back
against extremist forces in Africa and all of that. We're
gonna have this conversation with a special guest. So our
guest today is Ayan here see Ali Ayan was born
(01:34):
in Mogadishu, Somalia. Then in nineteen sixty nine she grew
up and she was raised as a Muslim, and as
she got older, she began to question aspects of her faith.
One day, while listening to a sermon on the many
ways women should be obedient to their husbands, she couldn't
resist asking must husbands obey us? Also in nineteen ninety two,
(01:59):
Ayan led to the Netherlands to escape a forced marriage. There,
she was granted asylum and in time citizenship. She quickly
learned Dutch and was able to study at the University
of Leiden, earning her MA and political science. She worked
as a translator for Somali immigrants and she saw firsthand
(02:21):
the inconsistencies the tensions between liberal Western society and tribal
Muslim cultures. From two thousand and three to two thousand
and six, Allan served as an elected member of the
Dutch Parliament. Actually, in two thousand and five, Time magazine
named her one of the one hundred most influential people
in the world. In parliament, she focused on the integration
(02:47):
of Muslim immigrants into Dutch society and on fighting for
the rights of women. Now today, she is a research
fellow at the Hoover Institution, and she is a founder
of the Aha Fi Foundation. And Ayon, welcome the Verdict.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Senator, thank you for having me on.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
We are very glad to have you. Let's start by
just if you could briefly, I shared a little bit
of your bio, but just tell us your story. Tell
us your story of the journey you've taken, because it's
an extraordinary story and I think our listeners and viewers
would be very interested hearing it. Well.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Think I think you really summarized it very well. I
was born in Somali. I was raised in Muslim in
a Muslim family. I was born in political household. My
father was very much he was very much influenced by
America during the Cold War, when you know the world
was divided into two hemispheres, those that supported the US
(03:48):
and those that supported the ideology of uss R. I'm
proud to say that my family supported the US, and
I don't want to say that my father was entirely secular,
but I want to say we suffered as at the
hands of communism, Islamism, whatever you can you I'm very
(04:13):
intimately familiar with some of these totalitarian ideologies, not from books,
but from real experience, and it's one of the reasons
why I reject them so completely. But I thought the
introduction you gave was fair and very good, and I
find myself in the United States a citizen and a
very grateful citizen to be American.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
So Ian, tell us what is Islamism and how does
it differ from there? Well over a billion practicing Muslims worldwide,
not every Muslim is an Islamist. What's the difference between the.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Two political Islam? I would say, is in some ways
different from general Islam. I know some of my fellow
researchers are just going to be really upset with me
when I make this distinction, but in practice. When I
look at countries like the United Arab Immirates and the
leaders of the United Arab Immirates, what they're trying to
(05:12):
say is, look, there is Islam as a civilization. We're
trying to cope and modernize and do This is our
national identity, this is our religious identity. But on the
other hand is political Islam, which is that what is
promoted by the Muslim Brotherhood. And political Islam is a
modern movement that was born out of the fall of
(05:33):
the Islamic Empire in nineteen twenty four when the Ottoman
Caliphate fell apart. They developed this ideology collectivist, totalitarian, which
is in pursuit of establishing Islamic dominance over what used
to be the Islamic heartlands and then spread out throughout
(05:54):
the rest of the world. So we're looking at an
Islamist political ideology versus Islam as civilization. Islam has a
lot of problems, and I'm the first one to admit that.
But I think as Americans today, our focus should be
(06:16):
on political Islam because it's easier to diagnose, it's easier
to define. We know what the objectives are, we know
who leads them, and we know we know also that
they have and formed an alliance with radical communists. With
communists they operate as a subversive effort, which I call dawa.
(06:41):
And then there is, of course, we're familiar with the
terrorist or jihiy aspect of it. So complicated, yes, conceptually,
but in practice easy to define, easy to understand, and
in my view, easy to combat well.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
And look the way I understand and you're far more
of an expert in this than I. But but but
I I draw a distinction between Islamist who seek to
in force UH not only their faith but but Sharia
law and and and to use force and power to
forcibly convert others and to forcibly subjugate others to Islam
(07:20):
and and and and and for me at least, I
use Islamist and jahadis somewhat interchangeably. Which is the the
the the commitment to using force, to using violence UH
to to dominate and and defeat the infidels. And I
would draw a distinction. You know, there's some countries like
you take for example, India, which has a very large
(07:40):
Muslim population but not a very high incidence of Islamism.
There's there's less political Islam there, uh than there is.
You look at the rise of the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt,
and and and the the willingness to and and in fact,
the the commitment to forcibly subjugate others. It is profoundly dangerous.
(08:02):
And I would say, yon, in my view, Europe is
ten to twenty years ahead of America in this and
in that Europe allowed itself to see a full on
invasion and and it really is in many ways captive
of the rising Islamist forced. America thankfully is not there yet,
(08:24):
but we can look to Europe as foreshadowing of where
things could could end up? Do you agree with that assessment?
And and and look you were you were a member
of the Dutch Parliament, so you have a lot of
experience in Europe and seeing what happened to Europe over
the last couple of decades.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Oh, Comte, I completely agree with you. And I think
the countries to listen to today are the heartlands of Islam,
the rulers of the United Arab Immirates and maybe even
Saudi Arabia, because in twenty ten, twenty eleven, twenty twelve,
I think these countries will support Before that, they were
(09:01):
supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. They had welcomed them, they had
given access to their institutions of socialization, and then they
discovered that the ideology that the Muslim Brotherhood was committed
to was one that wanted to overthrow them. And from
that moment they were able to do that utah where
they kicked out. They banned the Muslim Brotherhood, understanding them
(09:25):
number one to be a subversive effort, and terrorism and
jihadism is sort of a tool to help the subversive effort.
So the Muslim Brotherhood is banned in the UAE, they
are banned in Egypt, in all of these countries, and
I think we should be doing the same thing. The
(09:45):
thing about the danger for us in Europe and in
the United States is the Muslim Brotherhood comes in legitimately saying, hey,
all we're doing is observing religion. We are taking advantage
of our freedom for association, freedom of speech, freedom of
freedom of freedom of and they're using these freedoms to
(10:07):
subvert our own societies. And I think that is the
trick for us. You, as a senator in Congress, you're
going to have to grapple with the question, how do
I deal with a subversive effort like this one that's
seeking to destroy our system while at the same time
not violating those freedoms. That's something that some of these
(10:30):
Arab countries don't have to deal with. Singapore doesn't want
to deal with. That's our problem. I compare the Muslim Brotherhood.
If you ask me, if can you explain it to
someone who doesn't know, I'll say, hey, if you live
in Texas, have you ever been confronted with a termite infestation?
When I was little and we lived in Mogadishu, we
had termites and they would eat up into some of
(10:54):
this valuable wooden. Like my grandmother had this enormous cupboard
that she had been moving from Adam and Yemen all
the way here, and from one day to the next,
the whole thing came it. She moved it and it
just fell and she discovered in the back what these
teeny tiny termites that were acting as a colony. They
(11:14):
were eating away at it. And that is the Muslim Brotherhood.
It's a bottom up operation. It's decentralized, it's globalized. One
day they'll speak the language of peace and unity and
the next the language of jihad and war and it's very,
very difficult for us to look at this, but because
(11:34):
they've been around since nineteen twenty eight, for those of
us who really want to see the truth, we can
see it. We know how they operate, we know who
they are, We know that they go through universities, the media,
the elites, through commerce, and so now that we have
this big picture, we just need the carriage and the
(11:56):
political will to say, you are not going to do
to the United States you did to Europe. You're not
going to do to Europe what you did to Nigeria
and to other parts of Africa yep, Unisia, India, et cetera.
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(13:58):
almost like they have time where they grow while dormant,
while peaceful, And as I've studied them more than I
I honestly ever thought I would because of what we've
seen over the last fifteen years, it's like they have
these these ups and downs where it's like, here's a
time to build and be quiet and look like we're
peaceful as we plan for the next big thing that
(14:19):
we do. Is that part of the reason why they've
been able to stay around and continue to grow around
the world for so long.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Absolutely also because they operate on a different timeline that
it's very important to bear that in mind. They know
that in the United States, we operate, oh yeah, two
years to the midterm, four years to the presidential election.
So they think, oh, these white Western Christians they have
two year and four year timelines. They have one hundred
(14:46):
year timeline two hundred and three hundred as long as
Islam becomes dominant and they can impose Sharia that is
their faith. Number one. Number Two, they form alliances with
organizations and movements that are completely different from them. So
for instance, the Communist Marxists again infestation that is there
(15:08):
to destroy us. They form alliances with them because they
have that common goal of as long as we bring
down the structures of America, way down down the road,
we're going to figure out who is going to dominate. Now,
let me give you one hint. In the years prior
(15:28):
to nineteen seventeen nine in Iran the Islamists and the
Marxists were operating together. What happened when they succeeded in
their goal of destroying the Shah and his regime. The
Islamists then destroyed the Communists. So that is a warning
for the Marxist to say, I don't know who's going
(15:51):
to destroy itself.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, So what do you make of the Red Green Alliance?
And that seems to be that the energy and passion
behind Zood Mandani? What do you make of Mandani? And
as someone who has come from Somalia, who has seen this,
how do you assess what's happening in New York.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Well, the way I see it is Mamdani is a
reflection of both movements. So he is a watermelon, the
son of a watermelon, and he comes in.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Saying, explain watermelon to someone who hasn't heard that before.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
It's the Red Green Alliance. If you've ever seen a watermelon,
it's green on the outside. We say Islamist or political
Islam on the outside, and read communist or Marxist on
the inside. So they have a common objective, which is
the hate capitalism. They hate our system of government. They
(16:51):
have each of them. There's the green utopia, which is
the world is going to be dominated by Islam and
we'll have shari la then everything will be well. And
then of course you have the red the Marxists that
they're going to destroy capitalism and.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
So ayan what does it mean to live under sharia law?
Like what would it mean for America if the Islamists succeeded,
as they're moving closer and closer to doing in Europe,
What would that mean As a practical matter.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
It would mean a great deal of violence, chaos. Women
will be the subjects of men. I mean, they'll have
absolutely no rights. Non Muslims will be subjected to the
Jews are How do I explain that it's a lower
status for non Muslims if you're only people of the book,
(17:42):
Because if you're Jewish, you're going to be subjected to
what Jewish people who are subjected to. On October seven,
you see these.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You're talking about violence and rape and murder, violence.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Rape matter. I'm talking about floggings, public floggings. I'm talking
about public stonings. Some of the horrors that you now
see in Nigeria, you see in parts of Indonesia, you
saw in Afghanistan, you still see it. Do you remember
how the Taliban had promised a few years ago to
the Biden administration or we're not we're going to give
women their rights, but they have denied women rights to
(18:15):
go to school, they have denied women tried to do anything. Basically,
you become sun factories. It is what I was told
when I was forced into marriage. The man I was
about to be married of, he said, you're going to
have six sons for me or else. This is well known.
I mean, it is going to be. It's going to
(18:36):
be the worst human existence you can ever imagine. It's
a death cult.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Okay, so ye on, let me ask you why. Because
on the left, many leftists also consider themselves feminists, and
by the way, other leftists consider themselves LGBT activist. Is
Islamism consistent with any feminists notion or any notion of LGBT.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Rights absolutely not Look in the countries where Sharia law
is actually applied. Homosexuals, the LGBT community, they are taken
to the tallest structures, tallest buildings, towers or whatever, and
they're thrown off from there. That is the law. The
law is to execute homosexuals. Women are to be covered
(19:26):
and not to be seen. They are completely submissive. So
that is sharier law as it is applied anywhere in reality.
But there is this political expediency where people who are
on the far left, the Antifas of this world, the
Mamdani or one wing of the Mamdani followers, they think
(19:47):
we are the ones. Once we get you know, once
we destroy America, once we destroy the existing structures, they
think that they're going to dominate, and that's just not
how it works. But hey, why spoil their party? If
Okasio quote thinks that she and mom Danny have something
in common, why spoil the party. I think the rest
of us are going to say, no, we don't want
(20:08):
any of these collectivists subversive efforts and ask the question,
how is it possible that the capitalist city, the finance
city of the wild Manhattan is about to elect these people?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
And what's your take on that? Are you surprised by
the rise of Mandani. What is given your life experience.
Is this surprising to you or not?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
It's not surprising because in the last thirty forty years,
I think what we have seen is this display of
extreme lethal carelessness on the part of American elites, where
we have come to think of ourselves as invincible. We
just think if we have enough materialism, that everybody is
(20:59):
going to be attractive to who we are and what
we do, and we don't have to worry about these
collectivist ideologies. We kill the Christianity, we kill the spirituality.
We turned our backs on our foundational principles, and we're
paying the price. And we're paying the price because our
institutions of education from K to twelve, the universities, we've
(21:21):
allowed these people to take over and to preach. And
when I look at a stadium full of people in
New York that are cheering on Ocasio Cortez and Mom Danny,
I think we are paying the price of this carelessness.
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(22:32):
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(22:52):
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(23:53):
asked you this question. You look at Europe for a second,
and as Senator said earlier, hopefully they're ten to twenty
years ahead of us and that we can actually combat
this before it gets to that point. But when you
look at Mandani and AOC and the Lamo Mars and
the others that have really started to grow and they
have a genuine following in the uniteds America, how much
(24:17):
of the plan of the Muslim brotherhood and excitement is
there to know? They have these types of advocates that
aren't just saying things yes, but are getting elected and
are becoming more powerful.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
So I think there's a scenario where in America I'm
more hopeful because at least eighty percent of Americans don't
believe in this BS. We have people who come from
Latin American places like Venezuela, Cuba, I mean, Sanata, Cruz.
You know this better than I do. People like me.
(24:48):
I've lived through that BS, so I know I don't
want communism. Okay, I'm not illan.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
You're experience at vers hand, Yeah, I've experienced.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah. So if we get it right in America, and
I think we can get it right in America, we
are in a place maybe where we can be of
help and rescue our European counterparts and the rest of
Western civilization.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
So let me ask you a bit. Let me ask
a bit more about your personal journey. So you were
raised as a Muslim, and you embraced for a period
of time political Islam, Islamism, and then then you came
to reject it, and you spent a lot of years
as a very vocal atheist. And my understanding is now
you become a Christian, and I'd love to hear about
(25:37):
about why you became a Christian.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
I think maybe you should see that sort of like
a ripening, like peeling away. When you first come to
Western civilization, you see the glitter and glamor, which is
what I saw when I landed in Frankote in nineteen
ninety two. My goodness, everything was gleaming, these tall buildings
and wealth, and so you go beyond that layer and
I started to ask questions why these countries rich and
(26:04):
united and solid. While where I come from, even though
we claim to have the last profit and we claim
to be superior morally speaking, why are we living in impublishment?
Why are we here begging for arts? And when I
took political science in the University of Leiden, I was
(26:25):
lucky enough to have professors that taught me to keep
asking questions, to learn how to think, not what to think.
And my tribute goes to these professors. One of them
recently died, Professor Anderwech, who is really empirical. I mean,
he taught me you've got to understand what it is
(26:46):
before you talk about what should be. But at any
in any case, I want to say, having lived through
and touched the bottom of the promised utopia of sharia law,
the promised topia of communism, and knowing there is nothing
(27:06):
there but death like poverty, there is nothing there but
oppression and suppression, There's nothing there but misery. I'm in
a place where now I have come to see that
the only way we fight those ideologies is by getting
(27:27):
to the bottom of what are then the solid foundations
of Western civilization. That is Biblical, it's judae or Christian.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
It is.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
The salmon on the Mound. I mean, there is no
denying it. It is the principles on which America is
founded on. And right now America has been served well.
But over time, I think if you have two competing ideas,
it's the idea of communism, it's the idea of Islamism,
and then it's the idea of America. And I want
(28:00):
the idea of America to win and I want to
dedicate my life to that.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Amen, let me ask you. We were talking about the
Muslim Brotherhood. For our listeners, tell them what is the
Muslim Brotherhood? As you know, I've had I have legislation
I've introduced in multiple Congresses to designate the Muslim Brotherhood
as a terrorist organization. And in the first Trump administration
I came close to succeeding. I didn't quite convince the
(28:27):
President in the first term to designate the Muslim Brotherhood
as a terrorist organization. I believe I will succeed in
the second term. I think we're going to get it designated.
But tell us give it a little give us a
little bit of history and context of what the Brotherhood
is and your judgment on whether it is in fact
a terrorist organization and should be designated as such.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I think the challenge for you, Senator Cruz, is going
to be that you are going to have to understand
the two concepts as you legislate, and it's going to
be difficult, but I think you can do it. One
part of it is the terrorist aspect of it, which
is the application of jihad or violence. The other aspect,
the other side of the Muslim Brotherhood, is the subversive
(29:13):
effort which we have had. We are an open society.
Maybe we will debate what an open society means or
doesn't mean, but it's easy to access open societies if
you are a subversive, if you apply the subversive method,
(29:38):
and so for you on a legislative basis, you will
have to not only address the terrorist aspect which carries
the violence, but also the DAA, the subversive part of it.
The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in nineteen twenty eight by
a teacher, Hassan Albana in Egypt, and what he understood
(30:01):
was that he had to deal with the fragmentation of Islam.
As he understood it, Islam was no longer an empire.
Islam now was subjugated to the European powers that had
developed nation states. In the nation state of Egypt, he
understood that if he ever wanted to get state power,
(30:24):
he would have to work very slowly and bottom up.
Start with the individual, the family, society. He preached about
forming charities and then over time and time for them
seems a completely different concept than what we have having
(30:46):
persuaded as many people as possible taking on the levers
of the state. That is the method that they apply.
They've honed it. This is a method that's now become
improved over time. In Arab countries, it no longer works
(31:07):
because Arab dominating governments have come to understand that this
thing has come for them, So now they work. In
Europe and in America, they set up masks and then schools,
Islamic centers. They'll apply a whole neighborhood and over time
they want to grow and like do you remember the
(31:29):
litmus paper when you drop, sure, just the way it spreads.
That is the way they wanted to take over societies,
and they have succeeded. I mean, look at Dearborn, Michigan
for us in the United States of America, but when
you go to the UK, France, Sweden, these are societies
that are being taken over as they watch it and
(31:52):
they stand there and they all say, there's nothing we
can do because of the constitution. So the local constitutions,
national construtitutions have become documents that the Muslim Brotherhood can
wave to say you can't stop us, because everything we
do is legal, everything we do is peaceful or nonviolent.
(32:13):
They'll apply the violence when they need it, but clearly
they don't need to apply the violence because with.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
The explained to an American who has not seen it,
you just talked about how European countries were taken over
by the Brotherhood in Islabis, make that real. Explain what
that means and what exactly has happened, because I think
that is a powerful warning to what could happen here
as well.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
When I was a member of Parliament in two thousand
and six and I was brought in to be the
voice of modernity in Westernism, here's a woman from Somalia, whatever,
look at her, she has assimilated, blah blah blah. So
they brought me in. But then in two thousand and
six we had local elections. The local election the Netherlands
(33:01):
is a very small country and there are four large
cities the Hague, Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Utrecht. If my party,
the VVD, which was the center right party, wanted to
win any of these urban cities, I had to be
told to go there and say Islam is a religion
of peace. I said, I'm not going to say anything
(33:22):
of the sort. I've got six armed guards. I'm not
going to say ISLAMI is a religion of peace.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Repeat that for a second. You had six arm guards.
Why is that who was trying to kill you?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
What I was the people who were trying to kill
me was the protected minority of Muslims, many of them
who were radicalized by the Muslim local Muslim brotherhood in
the Netherlands, and the local Muslim brotherhood had control of
the larger Muslim communities, and at that point we knew
(33:59):
that not all Muslims in the Netherlands were loyal to them.
But it was like the mafia. If you're a Muslim
living in the Netherlands in one of these large cities,
if they told you vote this way, you vote that way.
And so the woman who was sort of sent in
their colored immigrant whatever, she was saying, I can't win
(34:20):
the votes. If Ian is saying is making these statements
about Islam and the position of women and homosexuals and
Christians and Jews and all of these things. So in
order for me to win the vote, or to even
be competitive, I have to at least accommodate them in
some of these policies. Now, what are the policies that
(34:42):
they were looking for. They wanted to enshrine Islamophobia as law.
They wanted to the government of the Netherlands to leave
them alone so that they could treat women the way
they wanted. They wanted FGM, they wanted on a killing.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
They just wanted to explain FG.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Female general mutilation, that is the cutting of the genitals
of women. I mean it is as a five year
old girl. They take I'm talking to men here, but
to look at the female generals. You cut the inner
labya the outer labya, and you saw so that you
know on the day of your wedding you can be
presented to your husband as a virgin. And this is
(35:23):
this is something that predated Islam, but obviously embraced by
Muslims and spread across the globe by the Muslim brotherhood.
But this is some of the policies that we had
to deal with they had. They wanted Sharia tribunals for marriage,
divorce and that sort of thing. They were bringing in
Sharia in a stealthily way. And if you wanted to
(35:45):
win these elections in these large cities. That was in
the Netherlands, but now it's in France, it's in Belgium,
it's in the United Kingdom, it's all over Europe. So
we're talking about demographics which they control. And so as
a politician, I think you understand numbers when it comes
to winning elections, and they held those numbers, and this
(36:09):
is what you have to understand. So you can't just
legislate on the tell. You can't just declare them a
terrorist organization. You have to deal with the subversive efforts,
the fact that they control schools, boarding schools.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
I want to take a moment and just talk to
you real quick about an incredible opportunity for you to
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said you're going to have to work hard, You're going
(36:45):
to have to suffer, and you're going to have to
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Speaker 2 (38:44):
Tell us what's happening in Nigeria, And as you know,
I've been very vocal calling out the mass murder of Christians.
Over fifty thousand Christians have been murdered in Nigeria since
two thousand and nine. Over twenty thousand churches and schools
have been destroyed, burned the ground and you have Boko
Haram and other radical Islamic terrorist groups that are targeting
(39:05):
and persecuting Christians in particular. And I will tell you
the government of Nigeria is very unhappy with me. They
have decried my saying this. I have introduced legislation to
designate them a country a special concern And the government
in Nigeria is very unhappy. And I've said, look that
there are far too many government leaders who have turned
a blind eyed to what is happening, who have acquiesced
(39:25):
in what is happening, who are enforcing either Sharia laws
or blasphemy laws and facilitating the persecution of Christians. And
as I said, the Nigerian government has been vigorously resisting
me in this. Give me your judgment. What do you
see happening in Nigeria and what do you think is
actually the truth.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Nigeria is the most important African country. It has the
largest population and obviously there's a vying for control between
on the one hand, the Islamic States of Nigeria and
the Christian States of Nigeria. And it used to be
about fifty to fifty, but because the Islamist movement, Bokoharam
(40:14):
and others. They want to apply force, the Jihadis force.
It's sort of gruesome killing that we've seen in October seven,
twenty twenty three in Israel. So what is going on
in Nigeria. The Islamists in Nigeria are killing Christians, They're
burning their churches, They're raping their women, they are invoking
(40:37):
blasphemilais So in the southern regions of Nigeria, Sharia law
is the law. And if you say Tadkruz has you
know he said something bad against Islam, you can have
a mob come and lynch you and there's nothing you
can do about it. But then the government should be
doing something about it. And the government isn't doing anything
about it. Now, what is the characteristic of the government
(40:59):
of nai It's corrupt. The elites in Nigeria, whether they
are Muslim or whether they are Christian, they're in this bubble,
and I think that bubble has to be burst in
a comfort bubble. I don't really think that they care
about that much about or are hell responsible or accountable
or transparent for what is going on with a large
majority of the Nigerian population. And that's what you see.
(41:24):
And we give a lot of money as the United
States and legitimacy to this government. We've got to hold
them accountable. And I couldn't be more pleased that you
are involved in this, Senator Cruz, you're calling them out
and you're going to say, if you want to be Allian,
our friend, we need you to uphold your end of
being a responsible and responsive government. There's a goal.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
There are more Christians being murdered in Nigeria than any
country on planet Earth. Now, one thing you said that
I thought was interesting and I think many of our
listeners will not have heard this before you said your judgment,
Nigeria is the most important African country. To tell tell
our listeners why that is because many will will not
(42:07):
have a deep familiarity with that.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
It has the largest population, it has oil resources, the
population is very young, it's English speaking, highly educated. Let
me just give you an example, Kemi Barano, I hope
the future Prime Minister of the United Kingdom is from
Nigeria and is Christian. So if we were, if you know,
in our relationship with right now Prussia, China, et cetera.
(42:36):
I think the continent as a whole, the continent of Africa,
which is home to over a billion people.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Yes, and growing a young population that is growing.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
It's the youngest population and it's the only population on
planet art that is growing as happily as it's doing right,
And so Nigeria is strategically important. Nigeria is is a
sort of country that should be our ally and there
is a huge Christian population that means they share norms
(43:09):
and values with us and we should not be abandoning Nigeria.
And so the population is pro American. But then they
are let down by their government. And I think that
can change if we were even to bring a little
bit of leverage down on them.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Because when we have that leverage. When you say a
little bit of leverage, what do you mean, like, what
would the leverage look like that you think could could
literally save lives, especially Christian lives and Nigeria who are
being attacked right now.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Well, it starts from the amounts of development aid money
that we give them. We could apply sanctions.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
I mean, well, my legislation with sanctions particular government officials,
so government officials at the local level who are engaged
in facilitating and acquiescing in this persecution. And so it's
designed to use the power of the US economy and
(44:14):
US sanctions to incentivize different behavior.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
Absolutely, and incentivized as legitimacy is really important for them
to keep their money in America to you know, all
of these the private jets they come and they play
in America and American allies even when they play in Europe.
I think we have a say over that. But I
don't want to go into the details of that, but
(44:40):
I think we can leverage our influence to make the
Nigerian government stop the violence immediately they have sharia law
in the southern regions. We can and then we say, oh,
human rights, this, that and the other. Where you have
sharia law, you do not have human rights? Are you crazy?
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Absolute? Absolutely, and we need to stand up and we
need to fight vigorously to prevent it here in the
United States. Okay, final topic, and we're going to wrap
up in just a couple of minutes. But you were
born in Somalia, as you know, I've publicly called on
the Trump administration to recognize Somali Land as a separate
and independent nation. Tell our viewers what you think about that,
(45:22):
and if you think that makes sense, tell them why.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
I think we should reward Somali Land for what they
have achieved. They have been since nineteen six the former
dictatorial government sier Bar. They were massacred, but they were
leevered into becoming part of Somalia. They became part of
Somalia and they have come to live to regret it.
But at the moment, very quickly, they are the only
(45:49):
viable nation state. They have a homogeneous population, they speak
one language, and there is a narrative of national identity,
of common suffering but also common survival. You know, as
a Somali, I will tell you something I'm not I'm
an American, but born in Somali. I will say that
one of the things that we Smaris excel at is
(46:10):
in vengeance. But the leadership of Somaliland have decided after
nineteen ninety one that they are not going to channel
the energy of their population into vengeance but build into building.
What is a nation and they are economically violent. I
think that may have oil and gas. I think that
(46:31):
they could be a strategic partner.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
I admire, and they want to stand with America. They
are standing up with the United States. It is in
our national interest to recognize Somaliland to have a a
major ally on the Horn of Africa, that is standing
with us. That's significant. And look, I am someone who
(46:54):
is very much America first. We should be putting American
national security interest first and records. Somali Land enhances those
interests absolutely.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
They are absolutely on the same page as as they
and also they have recognized Israel, they have defined they
have a defined territory, they have a permanent population, they
issue passports. But the most important thing is that they
hold elections one man, one vote for president, for parliament
(47:28):
and local elections. And you can come and survey those
and see that they are actually in some ways better
than our American elections. And so I think Somali Land
should be rewarded for the fact that they have built
a nation. They do not rely on development aid. They
never relied on US eight. That's yeah. So please vibrate
(47:51):
them from what is Somalia Mogadishu, which is just a
broken chihadi place.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Well, I thank you for taking the time, thank you
for joining us. I think this is has been a
very informative podcast. I think our listeners are really going
to get a lot out of it. Let me encourage
our listeners share this podcast if you want your friends,
your family, to understand, understand the threat of political Islam,
what it means, what it's meant in Europe, what it
means here in America. I think it is an incredibly
(48:21):
important topic. It is a very real threat. It is
a threat that I am committed to combating. And one
of the purposes of this podcast is to equip you,
to give you information that when you're talking with your
friends and families and colleagues and co workers, that you
know the truth. And Ayaan, I think this has been very,
very helpful to our listeners. So thank you so much
(48:41):
for joining us.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
Thank you, thank you Ted.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Don't forget We do this show Monday, Wednesday and Friday,
so that subscribe or that auto download button wherever you are,
and like the Center said, please share this on social media.
It's on YouTube as well. You can watch it and
share it there as well. In the center. I will
see you back here on Friday morning.
Welcome. It is Verdict with Center, Ted Cruz Ben Ferguson
with you, and today's episode is going to be a
very special one with a very special guest, and I
hope that you will take this episode and share it
on social media. Also, if you want to watch it
on YouTube, it's there. Because Center, we're dealing with a
very important and also a very tough subject right now
that is on the minds of a lot of Americans,
(00:22):
and I want you to explain why we decide to
this show and also introduce our guests.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Well, we're going to be focusing today on the rise
of radical Islam in America and also the rise of
radical Islam across the globe. And we're going to talk
about Comrade Mondami, who we devoted the entire last podcast
to his rise in New York, to the very real
possibility that we will have a communist, a Marxist jihadist
(00:50):
as the next mayor of New York and how frightening
that is. We're going to talk also about the Muslim
Brotherhood and what the Muslim Brotherhood is and why I
am leading the fight to have them the Brotherhood declared
a terrorist organization. We're going to talk about what's happening
in Nigeria, about the systematic mass murder of Christians in
Nigeria by Boko Haram and other radical Islamic terrorists. And
(01:13):
we're also going to talk about Somalia and the prospect
of America recognizing Somaliland, and how we can fight back
against extremist forces in Africa and all of that. We're
gonna have this conversation with a special guest. So our
guest today is Ayan here see Ali Ayan was born
(01:34):
in Mogadishu, Somalia. Then in nineteen sixty nine she grew
up and she was raised as a Muslim, and as
she got older, she began to question aspects of her faith.
One day, while listening to a sermon on the many
ways women should be obedient to their husbands, she couldn't
resist asking must husbands obey us? Also in nineteen ninety two,
(01:59):
Ayan led to the Netherlands to escape a forced marriage. There,
she was granted asylum and in time citizenship. She quickly
learned Dutch and was able to study at the University
of Leiden, earning her MA and political science. She worked
as a translator for Somali immigrants and she saw firsthand
(02:21):
the inconsistencies the tensions between liberal Western society and tribal
Muslim cultures. From two thousand and three to two thousand
and six, Allan served as an elected member of the
Dutch Parliament. Actually, in two thousand and five, Time magazine
named her one of the one hundred most influential people
in the world. In parliament, she focused on the integration
(02:47):
of Muslim immigrants into Dutch society and on fighting for
the rights of women. Now today, she is a research
fellow at the Hoover Institution, and she is a founder
of the Aha Fi Foundation. And Ayon, welcome the Verdict.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Senator, thank you for having me on.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
We are very glad to have you. Let's start by
just if you could briefly, I shared a little bit
of your bio, but just tell us your story. Tell
us your story of the journey you've taken, because it's
an extraordinary story and I think our listeners and viewers
would be very interested hearing it. Well.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Think I think you really summarized it very well. I
was born in Somali. I was raised in Muslim in
a Muslim family. I was born in political household. My
father was very much he was very much influenced by
America during the Cold War, when you know the world
was divided into two hemispheres, those that supported the US
(03:48):
and those that supported the ideology of uss R. I'm
proud to say that my family supported the US, and
I don't want to say that my father was entirely secular,
but I want to say we suffered as at the
hands of communism, Islamism, whatever you can you I'm very
(04:13):
intimately familiar with some of these totalitarian ideologies, not from books,
but from real experience, and it's one of the reasons
why I reject them so completely. But I thought the
introduction you gave was fair and very good, and I
find myself in the United States a citizen and a
very grateful citizen to be American.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
So Ian, tell us what is Islamism and how does
it differ from there? Well over a billion practicing Muslims worldwide,
not every Muslim is an Islamist. What's the difference between the.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Two political Islam? I would say, is in some ways
different from general Islam. I know some of my fellow
researchers are just going to be really upset with me
when I make this distinction, but in practice. When I
look at countries like the United Arab Immirates and the
leaders of the United Arab Immirates, what they're trying to
(05:12):
say is, look, there is Islam as a civilization. We're
trying to cope and modernize and do This is our
national identity, this is our religious identity. But on the
other hand is political Islam, which is that what is
promoted by the Muslim Brotherhood. And political Islam is a
modern movement that was born out of the fall of
(05:33):
the Islamic Empire in nineteen twenty four when the Ottoman
Caliphate fell apart. They developed this ideology collectivist, totalitarian, which
is in pursuit of establishing Islamic dominance over what used
to be the Islamic heartlands and then spread out throughout
(05:54):
the rest of the world. So we're looking at an
Islamist political ideology versus Islam as civilization. Islam has a
lot of problems, and I'm the first one to admit that.
But I think as Americans today, our focus should be
(06:16):
on political Islam because it's easier to diagnose, it's easier
to define. We know what the objectives are, we know
who leads them, and we know we know also that
they have and formed an alliance with radical communists. With
communists they operate as a subversive effort, which I call dawa.
(06:41):
And then there is, of course, we're familiar with the
terrorist or jihiy aspect of it. So complicated, yes, conceptually,
but in practice easy to define, easy to understand, and
in my view, easy to combat well.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
And look the way I understand and you're far more
of an expert in this than I. But but but
I I draw a distinction between Islamist who seek to
in force UH not only their faith but but Sharia
law and and and to use force and power to
forcibly convert others and to forcibly subjugate others to Islam
(07:20):
and and and and and for me at least, I
use Islamist and jahadis somewhat interchangeably. Which is the the
the the commitment to using force, to using violence UH
to to dominate and and defeat the infidels. And I
would draw a distinction. You know, there's some countries like
you take for example, India, which has a very large
(07:40):
Muslim population but not a very high incidence of Islamism.
There's there's less political Islam there, uh than there is.
You look at the rise of the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt,
and and and the the willingness to and and in fact,
the the commitment to forcibly subjugate others. It is profoundly dangerous.
(08:02):
And I would say, yon, in my view, Europe is
ten to twenty years ahead of America in this and
in that Europe allowed itself to see a full on
invasion and and it really is in many ways captive
of the rising Islamist forced. America thankfully is not there yet,
(08:24):
but we can look to Europe as foreshadowing of where
things could could end up? Do you agree with that assessment?
And and and look you were you were a member
of the Dutch Parliament, so you have a lot of
experience in Europe and seeing what happened to Europe over
the last couple of decades.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Oh, Comte, I completely agree with you. And I think
the countries to listen to today are the heartlands of Islam,
the rulers of the United Arab Immirates and maybe even
Saudi Arabia, because in twenty ten, twenty eleven, twenty twelve,
I think these countries will support Before that, they were
(09:01):
supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. They had welcomed them, they had
given access to their institutions of socialization, and then they
discovered that the ideology that the Muslim Brotherhood was committed
to was one that wanted to overthrow them. And from
that moment they were able to do that utah where
they kicked out. They banned the Muslim Brotherhood, understanding them
(09:25):
number one to be a subversive effort, and terrorism and
jihadism is sort of a tool to help the subversive effort.
So the Muslim Brotherhood is banned in the UAE, they
are banned in Egypt, in all of these countries, and
I think we should be doing the same thing. The
(09:45):
thing about the danger for us in Europe and in
the United States is the Muslim Brotherhood comes in legitimately saying, hey,
all we're doing is observing religion. We are taking advantage
of our freedom for association, freedom of speech, freedom of
freedom of freedom of and they're using these freedoms to
(10:07):
subvert our own societies. And I think that is the
trick for us. You, as a senator in Congress, you're
going to have to grapple with the question, how do
I deal with a subversive effort like this one that's
seeking to destroy our system while at the same time
not violating those freedoms. That's something that some of these
(10:30):
Arab countries don't have to deal with. Singapore doesn't want
to deal with. That's our problem. I compare the Muslim Brotherhood.
If you ask me, if can you explain it to
someone who doesn't know, I'll say, hey, if you live
in Texas, have you ever been confronted with a termite infestation?
When I was little and we lived in Mogadishu, we
had termites and they would eat up into some of
(10:54):
this valuable wooden. Like my grandmother had this enormous cupboard
that she had been moving from Adam and Yemen all
the way here, and from one day to the next,
the whole thing came it. She moved it and it
just fell and she discovered in the back what these
teeny tiny termites that were acting as a colony. They
(11:14):
were eating away at it. And that is the Muslim Brotherhood.
It's a bottom up operation. It's decentralized, it's globalized. One
day they'll speak the language of peace and unity and
the next the language of jihad and war and it's very,
very difficult for us to look at this, but because
(11:34):
they've been around since nineteen twenty eight, for those of
us who really want to see the truth, we can
see it. We know how they operate, we know who
they are, We know that they go through universities, the media,
the elites, through commerce, and so now that we have
this big picture, we just need the carriage and the
(11:56):
political will to say, you are not going to do
to the United States you did to Europe. You're not
going to do to Europe what you did to Nigeria
and to other parts of Africa yep, Unisia, India, et cetera.
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(13:36):
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free shipping Right now the US, it seems to be
really really I think smart in a way where it's
(13:58):
almost like they have time where they grow while dormant,
while peaceful, And as I've studied them more than I
I honestly ever thought I would because of what we've
seen over the last fifteen years, it's like they have
these these ups and downs where it's like, here's a
time to build and be quiet and look like we're
peaceful as we plan for the next big thing that
(14:19):
we do. Is that part of the reason why they've
been able to stay around and continue to grow around
the world for so long.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Absolutely also because they operate on a different timeline that
it's very important to bear that in mind. They know
that in the United States, we operate, oh yeah, two
years to the midterm, four years to the presidential election.
So they think, oh, these white Western Christians they have
two year and four year timelines. They have one hundred
(14:46):
year timeline two hundred and three hundred as long as
Islam becomes dominant and they can impose Sharia that is
their faith. Number one. Number Two, they form alliances with
organizations and movements that are completely different from them. So
for instance, the Communist Marxists again infestation that is there
(15:08):
to destroy us. They form alliances with them because they
have that common goal of as long as we bring
down the structures of America, way down down the road,
we're going to figure out who is going to dominate. Now,
let me give you one hint. In the years prior
(15:28):
to nineteen seventeen nine in Iran the Islamists and the
Marxists were operating together. What happened when they succeeded in
their goal of destroying the Shah and his regime. The
Islamists then destroyed the Communists. So that is a warning
for the Marxist to say, I don't know who's going
(15:51):
to destroy itself.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, So what do you make of the Red Green Alliance?
And that seems to be that the energy and passion
behind Zood Mandani? What do you make of Mandani? And
as someone who has come from Somalia, who has seen this,
how do you assess what's happening in New York.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Well, the way I see it is Mamdani is a
reflection of both movements. So he is a watermelon, the
son of a watermelon, and he comes in.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Saying, explain watermelon to someone who hasn't heard that before.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
It's the Red Green Alliance. If you've ever seen a watermelon,
it's green on the outside. We say Islamist or political
Islam on the outside, and read communist or Marxist on
the inside. So they have a common objective, which is
the hate capitalism. They hate our system of government. They
(16:51):
have each of them. There's the green utopia, which is
the world is going to be dominated by Islam and
we'll have shari la then everything will be well. And
then of course you have the red the Marxists that
they're going to destroy capitalism and.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
So ayan what does it mean to live under sharia law?
Like what would it mean for America if the Islamists succeeded,
as they're moving closer and closer to doing in Europe,
What would that mean As a practical matter.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
It would mean a great deal of violence, chaos. Women
will be the subjects of men. I mean, they'll have
absolutely no rights. Non Muslims will be subjected to the
Jews are How do I explain that it's a lower
status for non Muslims if you're only people of the book,
(17:42):
Because if you're Jewish, you're going to be subjected to
what Jewish people who are subjected to. On October seven,
you see these.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You're talking about violence and rape and murder, violence.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Rape matter. I'm talking about floggings, public floggings. I'm talking
about public stonings. Some of the horrors that you now
see in Nigeria, you see in parts of Indonesia, you
saw in Afghanistan, you still see it. Do you remember
how the Taliban had promised a few years ago to
the Biden administration or we're not we're going to give
women their rights, but they have denied women rights to
(18:15):
go to school, they have denied women tried to do anything. Basically,
you become sun factories. It is what I was told
when I was forced into marriage. The man I was
about to be married of, he said, you're going to
have six sons for me or else. This is well known.
I mean, it is going to be. It's going to
(18:36):
be the worst human existence you can ever imagine. It's
a death cult.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Okay, so ye on, let me ask you why. Because
on the left, many leftists also consider themselves feminists, and
by the way, other leftists consider themselves LGBT activist. Is
Islamism consistent with any feminists notion or any notion of LGBT.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Rights absolutely not Look in the countries where Sharia law
is actually applied. Homosexuals, the LGBT community, they are taken
to the tallest structures, tallest buildings, towers or whatever, and
they're thrown off from there. That is the law. The
law is to execute homosexuals. Women are to be covered
(19:26):
and not to be seen. They are completely submissive. So
that is sharier law as it is applied anywhere in reality.
But there is this political expediency where people who are
on the far left, the Antifas of this world, the
Mamdani or one wing of the Mamdani followers, they think
(19:47):
we are the ones. Once we get you know, once
we destroy America, once we destroy the existing structures, they
think that they're going to dominate, and that's just not
how it works. But hey, why spoil their party? If
Okasio quote thinks that she and mom Danny have something
in common, why spoil the party. I think the rest
of us are going to say, no, we don't want
(20:08):
any of these collectivists subversive efforts and ask the question,
how is it possible that the capitalist city, the finance
city of the wild Manhattan is about to elect these people?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
And what's your take on that? Are you surprised by
the rise of Mandani. What is given your life experience.
Is this surprising to you or not?
Speaker 3 (20:35):
It's not surprising because in the last thirty forty years,
I think what we have seen is this display of
extreme lethal carelessness on the part of American elites, where
we have come to think of ourselves as invincible. We
just think if we have enough materialism, that everybody is
(20:59):
going to be attractive to who we are and what
we do, and we don't have to worry about these
collectivist ideologies. We kill the Christianity, we kill the spirituality.
We turned our backs on our foundational principles, and we're
paying the price. And we're paying the price because our
institutions of education from K to twelve, the universities, we've
(21:21):
allowed these people to take over and to preach. And
when I look at a stadium full of people in
New York that are cheering on Ocasio Cortez and Mom Danny,
I think we are paying the price of this carelessness.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
For me, being able to protect my family is my
number one priority. And you've heard me talk to my
good friend Josh from Berna about real stories of people
just like you and me that have used their Burner
launcher protect themselves and their families. Now, berner is a
handheld pistol that fires both kinetic rounds and chemical irritants
to separate you from an attacker. You can see the
(21:55):
videos of how this works at Berna dot com and
I'll tell you more about that in a moment. But Josh,
just back with me today to tell a story of
how I burn a launcher could help avoid a tragedy.
This was actually a story that happened in my hometown
of Houston.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
This is such a tragic story that just recently happened.
One night recently here in Houston, an eleven year old
Julian Gouzlin and his cousin were banging on neighbors doors
and running away before they were answered a generation's old
game that we all know is ding dong ditch well.
When they came to the residence of Gonzalo Lee On Junior.
Gonzalo would later state that the two banged on his
door multiple times, and believing they were there to try
(22:32):
to break into his home, Gonzalo exited the house and
fired at Julian with a handgun, ultimately killing him. Now,
while in Texas, like many States we have strong standiard
ground and castle doctrine laws, but homeowners still may only
use deadly force when it's immediately necessary to prevent assault, robbery,
or other crimes after someone unlawfully enters their property. And
(22:52):
I think everyone can agree that no matter where you live.
And in this case, that did not meet those requirements,
and unfortunately the homeowner in this case is no. I've
been arrested for murder with a bond set of a
million dollars and prosecutors have stated that they will be
seeking the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
If a homeowner thinks someone may be breaking in, what
should their priorities be and how should burn A fit
into that plan is a really important question everyone should
be asking.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
No matter where you live, your plan should be to
escape to get to a safe location, and many times
that doesn't mean engaging the intruders directly. Burn is great
for using either chemical arounds with the kinetic grounds to
buy you and your family time to get out and
get to safety, which should be your main priority.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
If you want to know more about exactly what BURNA
can do to help you protect your family, see the
videos and see how it works. Go to burn up
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for all of my family members and why I have
it in every one of my cars. Burn up b
Why RNA dot com? Again, that's burna dot com. I
(23:53):
asked you this question. You look at Europe for a second,
and as Senator said earlier, hopefully they're ten to twenty
years ahead of us and that we can actually combat
this before it gets to that point. But when you
look at Mandani and AOC and the Lamo Mars and
the others that have really started to grow and they
have a genuine following in the uniteds America, how much
(24:17):
of the plan of the Muslim brotherhood and excitement is
there to know? They have these types of advocates that
aren't just saying things yes, but are getting elected and
are becoming more powerful.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
So I think there's a scenario where in America I'm
more hopeful because at least eighty percent of Americans don't
believe in this BS. We have people who come from
Latin American places like Venezuela, Cuba, I mean, Sanata, Cruz.
You know this better than I do. People like me.
(24:48):
I've lived through that BS, so I know I don't
want communism. Okay, I'm not illan.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
You're experience at vers hand, Yeah, I've experienced.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah. So if we get it right in America, and
I think we can get it right in America, we
are in a place maybe where we can be of
help and rescue our European counterparts and the rest of
Western civilization.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
So let me ask you a bit. Let me ask
a bit more about your personal journey. So you were
raised as a Muslim, and you embraced for a period
of time political Islam, Islamism, and then then you came
to reject it, and you spent a lot of years
as a very vocal atheist. And my understanding is now
you become a Christian, and I'd love to hear about
(25:37):
about why you became a Christian.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
I think maybe you should see that sort of like
a ripening, like peeling away. When you first come to
Western civilization, you see the glitter and glamor, which is
what I saw when I landed in Frankote in nineteen
ninety two. My goodness, everything was gleaming, these tall buildings
and wealth, and so you go beyond that layer and
I started to ask questions why these countries rich and
(26:04):
united and solid. While where I come from, even though
we claim to have the last profit and we claim
to be superior morally speaking, why are we living in impublishment?
Why are we here begging for arts? And when I
took political science in the University of Leiden, I was
(26:25):
lucky enough to have professors that taught me to keep
asking questions, to learn how to think, not what to think.
And my tribute goes to these professors. One of them
recently died, Professor Anderwech, who is really empirical. I mean,
he taught me you've got to understand what it is
(26:46):
before you talk about what should be. But at any
in any case, I want to say, having lived through
and touched the bottom of the promised utopia of sharia law,
the promised topia of communism, and knowing there is nothing
(27:06):
there but death like poverty, there is nothing there but
oppression and suppression, There's nothing there but misery. I'm in
a place where now I have come to see that
the only way we fight those ideologies is by getting
(27:27):
to the bottom of what are then the solid foundations
of Western civilization. That is Biblical, it's judae or Christian.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
It is.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
The salmon on the Mound. I mean, there is no
denying it. It is the principles on which America is
founded on. And right now America has been served well.
But over time, I think if you have two competing ideas,
it's the idea of communism, it's the idea of Islamism,
and then it's the idea of America. And I want
(28:00):
the idea of America to win and I want to
dedicate my life to that.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Amen, let me ask you. We were talking about the
Muslim Brotherhood. For our listeners, tell them what is the
Muslim Brotherhood? As you know, I've had I have legislation
I've introduced in multiple Congresses to designate the Muslim Brotherhood
as a terrorist organization. And in the first Trump administration
I came close to succeeding. I didn't quite convince the
(28:27):
President in the first term to designate the Muslim Brotherhood
as a terrorist organization. I believe I will succeed in
the second term. I think we're going to get it designated.
But tell us give it a little give us a
little bit of history and context of what the Brotherhood
is and your judgment on whether it is in fact
a terrorist organization and should be designated as such.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I think the challenge for you, Senator Cruz, is going
to be that you are going to have to understand
the two concepts as you legislate, and it's going to
be difficult, but I think you can do it. One
part of it is the terrorist aspect of it, which
is the application of jihad or violence. The other aspect,
the other side of the Muslim Brotherhood, is the subversive
(29:13):
effort which we have had. We are an open society.
Maybe we will debate what an open society means or
doesn't mean, but it's easy to access open societies if
you are a subversive, if you apply the subversive method,
(29:38):
and so for you on a legislative basis, you will
have to not only address the terrorist aspect which carries
the violence, but also the DAA, the subversive part of it.
The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in nineteen twenty eight by
a teacher, Hassan Albana in Egypt, and what he understood
(30:01):
was that he had to deal with the fragmentation of Islam.
As he understood it, Islam was no longer an empire.
Islam now was subjugated to the European powers that had
developed nation states. In the nation state of Egypt, he
understood that if he ever wanted to get state power,
(30:24):
he would have to work very slowly and bottom up.
Start with the individual, the family, society. He preached about
forming charities and then over time and time for them
seems a completely different concept than what we have having
(30:46):
persuaded as many people as possible taking on the levers
of the state. That is the method that they apply.
They've honed it. This is a method that's now become
improved over time. In Arab countries, it no longer works
(31:07):
because Arab dominating governments have come to understand that this
thing has come for them, So now they work. In
Europe and in America, they set up masks and then schools,
Islamic centers. They'll apply a whole neighborhood and over time
they want to grow and like do you remember the
(31:29):
litmus paper when you drop, sure, just the way it spreads.
That is the way they wanted to take over societies,
and they have succeeded. I mean, look at Dearborn, Michigan
for us in the United States of America, but when
you go to the UK, France, Sweden, these are societies
that are being taken over as they watch it and
(31:52):
they stand there and they all say, there's nothing we
can do because of the constitution. So the local constitutions,
national construtitutions have become documents that the Muslim Brotherhood can
wave to say you can't stop us, because everything we
do is legal, everything we do is peaceful or nonviolent.
(32:13):
They'll apply the violence when they need it, but clearly
they don't need to apply the violence because with.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
The explained to an American who has not seen it,
you just talked about how European countries were taken over
by the Brotherhood in Islabis, make that real. Explain what
that means and what exactly has happened, because I think
that is a powerful warning to what could happen here
as well.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
When I was a member of Parliament in two thousand
and six and I was brought in to be the
voice of modernity in Westernism, here's a woman from Somalia, whatever,
look at her, she has assimilated, blah blah blah. So
they brought me in. But then in two thousand and
six we had local elections. The local election the Netherlands
(33:01):
is a very small country and there are four large
cities the Hague, Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Utrecht. If my party,
the VVD, which was the center right party, wanted to
win any of these urban cities, I had to be
told to go there and say Islam is a religion
of peace. I said, I'm not going to say anything
(33:22):
of the sort. I've got six armed guards. I'm not
going to say ISLAMI is a religion of peace.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Repeat that for a second. You had six arm guards.
Why is that who was trying to kill you?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
What I was the people who were trying to kill
me was the protected minority of Muslims, many of them
who were radicalized by the Muslim local Muslim brotherhood in
the Netherlands, and the local Muslim brotherhood had control of
the larger Muslim communities, and at that point we knew
(33:59):
that not all Muslims in the Netherlands were loyal to them.
But it was like the mafia. If you're a Muslim
living in the Netherlands in one of these large cities,
if they told you vote this way, you vote that way.
And so the woman who was sort of sent in
their colored immigrant whatever, she was saying, I can't win
(34:20):
the votes. If Ian is saying is making these statements
about Islam and the position of women and homosexuals and
Christians and Jews and all of these things. So in
order for me to win the vote, or to even
be competitive, I have to at least accommodate them in
some of these policies. Now, what are the policies that
(34:42):
they were looking for. They wanted to enshrine Islamophobia as law.
They wanted to the government of the Netherlands to leave
them alone so that they could treat women the way
they wanted. They wanted FGM, they wanted on a killing.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
They just wanted to explain FG.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Female general mutilation, that is the cutting of the genitals
of women. I mean it is as a five year
old girl. They take I'm talking to men here, but
to look at the female generals. You cut the inner
labya the outer labya, and you saw so that you
know on the day of your wedding you can be
presented to your husband as a virgin. And this is
(35:23):
this is something that predated Islam, but obviously embraced by
Muslims and spread across the globe by the Muslim brotherhood.
But this is some of the policies that we had
to deal with they had. They wanted Sharia tribunals for marriage,
divorce and that sort of thing. They were bringing in
Sharia in a stealthily way. And if you wanted to
(35:45):
win these elections in these large cities. That was in
the Netherlands, but now it's in France, it's in Belgium,
it's in the United Kingdom, it's all over Europe. So
we're talking about demographics which they control. And so as
a politician, I think you understand numbers when it comes
to winning elections, and they held those numbers, and this
(36:09):
is what you have to understand. So you can't just
legislate on the tell. You can't just declare them a
terrorist organization. You have to deal with the subversive efforts,
the fact that they control schools, boarding schools.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
I want to take a moment and just talk to
you real quick about an incredible opportunity for you to
continue to expand your mind and learn, no matter what
your age is. Senator Cruz and I were at the
memorial service for Charlie Kirk and one of the people
that spoke was the president of Hillsdale College, and he
talked about meeting with Charlie early on and how he
said you're going to have to work hard, You're going
(36:45):
to have to suffer, and you're going to have to
continue to learn when he was so young, and he
talked about all of the classes that Charlie ended up
taking at Hillsdale. I immediately said, I want the listeners
of this show to be able to have the same
opportunity to do that. There are amazing classes history, economics,
(37:05):
the great works of literature, the meaning of the US Constitution.
And if you didn't say these things in school, or
maybe you did, but you were, like, you know, just
trying to check the box and make the grade when
you're twenty, Now is a great time for you to
go back and learn so much more. Hillsdale College is
offering more than forty free I want to say that again,
forty free online courses. That's right, more than forty free
(37:30):
online courses. You can learn about the works of C. S. Lewis,
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now I'm also looking at the Constitution one on one.
It's amazing. I refresh your course and you can see
(37:52):
and explore the design, the purpose of the Constitution, the
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been undermined for more than a century by progressives and liberals.
This twelve lecture course is self paced, so you start
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(38:14):
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(38:35):
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Speaker 2 (38:44):
Tell us what's happening in Nigeria, And as you know,
I've been very vocal calling out the mass murder of Christians.
Over fifty thousand Christians have been murdered in Nigeria since
two thousand and nine. Over twenty thousand churches and schools
have been destroyed, burned the ground and you have Boko
Haram and other radical Islamic terrorist groups that are targeting
(39:05):
and persecuting Christians in particular. And I will tell you
the government of Nigeria is very unhappy with me. They
have decried my saying this. I have introduced legislation to
designate them a country a special concern And the government
in Nigeria is very unhappy. And I've said, look that
there are far too many government leaders who have turned
a blind eyed to what is happening, who have acquiesced
(39:25):
in what is happening, who are enforcing either Sharia laws
or blasphemy laws and facilitating the persecution of Christians. And
as I said, the Nigerian government has been vigorously resisting
me in this. Give me your judgment. What do you
see happening in Nigeria and what do you think is
actually the truth.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Nigeria is the most important African country. It has the
largest population and obviously there's a vying for control between
on the one hand, the Islamic States of Nigeria and
the Christian States of Nigeria. And it used to be
about fifty to fifty, but because the Islamist movement, Bokoharam
(40:14):
and others. They want to apply force, the Jihadis force.
It's sort of gruesome killing that we've seen in October seven,
twenty twenty three in Israel. So what is going on
in Nigeria. The Islamists in Nigeria are killing Christians, They're
burning their churches, They're raping their women, they are invoking
(40:37):
blasphemilais So in the southern regions of Nigeria, Sharia law
is the law. And if you say Tadkruz has you
know he said something bad against Islam, you can have
a mob come and lynch you and there's nothing you
can do about it. But then the government should be
doing something about it. And the government isn't doing anything
about it. Now, what is the characteristic of the government
(40:59):
of nai It's corrupt. The elites in Nigeria, whether they
are Muslim or whether they are Christian, they're in this bubble,
and I think that bubble has to be burst in
a comfort bubble. I don't really think that they care
about that much about or are hell responsible or accountable
or transparent for what is going on with a large
majority of the Nigerian population. And that's what you see.
(41:24):
And we give a lot of money as the United
States and legitimacy to this government. We've got to hold
them accountable. And I couldn't be more pleased that you
are involved in this, Senator Cruz, you're calling them out
and you're going to say, if you want to be Allian,
our friend, we need you to uphold your end of
being a responsible and responsive government. There's a goal.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
There are more Christians being murdered in Nigeria than any
country on planet Earth. Now, one thing you said that
I thought was interesting and I think many of our
listeners will not have heard this before you said your judgment,
Nigeria is the most important African country. To tell tell
our listeners why that is because many will will not
(42:07):
have a deep familiarity with that.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
It has the largest population, it has oil resources, the
population is very young, it's English speaking, highly educated. Let
me just give you an example, Kemi Barano, I hope
the future Prime Minister of the United Kingdom is from
Nigeria and is Christian. So if we were, if you know,
in our relationship with right now Prussia, China, et cetera.
(42:36):
I think the continent as a whole, the continent of Africa,
which is home to over a billion people.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Yes, and growing a young population that is growing.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
It's the youngest population and it's the only population on
planet art that is growing as happily as it's doing right,
And so Nigeria is strategically important. Nigeria is is a
sort of country that should be our ally and there
is a huge Christian population that means they share norms
(43:09):
and values with us and we should not be abandoning Nigeria.
And so the population is pro American. But then they
are let down by their government. And I think that
can change if we were even to bring a little
bit of leverage down on them.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Because when we have that leverage. When you say a
little bit of leverage, what do you mean, like, what
would the leverage look like that you think could could
literally save lives, especially Christian lives and Nigeria who are
being attacked right now.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Well, it starts from the amounts of development aid money
that we give them. We could apply sanctions.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
I mean, well, my legislation with sanctions particular government officials,
so government officials at the local level who are engaged
in facilitating and acquiescing in this persecution. And so it's
designed to use the power of the US economy and
(44:14):
US sanctions to incentivize different behavior.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
Absolutely, and incentivized as legitimacy is really important for them
to keep their money in America to you know, all
of these the private jets they come and they play
in America and American allies even when they play in Europe.
I think we have a say over that. But I
don't want to go into the details of that, but
(44:40):
I think we can leverage our influence to make the
Nigerian government stop the violence immediately they have sharia law
in the southern regions. We can and then we say, oh,
human rights, this, that and the other. Where you have
sharia law, you do not have human rights? Are you crazy?
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Absolute? Absolutely, and we need to stand up and we
need to fight vigorously to prevent it here in the
United States. Okay, final topic, and we're going to wrap
up in just a couple of minutes. But you were
born in Somalia, as you know, I've publicly called on
the Trump administration to recognize Somali Land as a separate
and independent nation. Tell our viewers what you think about that,
(45:22):
and if you think that makes sense, tell them why.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
I think we should reward Somali Land for what they
have achieved. They have been since nineteen six the former
dictatorial government sier Bar. They were massacred, but they were
leevered into becoming part of Somalia. They became part of
Somalia and they have come to live to regret it.
But at the moment, very quickly, they are the only
(45:49):
viable nation state. They have a homogeneous population, they speak
one language, and there is a narrative of national identity,
of common suffering but also common survival. You know, as
a Somali, I will tell you something I'm not I'm
an American, but born in Somali. I will say that
one of the things that we Smaris excel at is
(46:10):
in vengeance. But the leadership of Somaliland have decided after
nineteen ninety one that they are not going to channel
the energy of their population into vengeance but build into building.
What is a nation and they are economically violent. I
think that may have oil and gas. I think that
(46:31):
they could be a strategic partner.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
I admire, and they want to stand with America. They
are standing up with the United States. It is in
our national interest to recognize Somaliland to have a a
major ally on the Horn of Africa, that is standing
with us. That's significant. And look, I am someone who
(46:54):
is very much America first. We should be putting American
national security interest first and records. Somali Land enhances those
interests absolutely.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
They are absolutely on the same page as as they
and also they have recognized Israel, they have defined they
have a defined territory, they have a permanent population, they
issue passports. But the most important thing is that they
hold elections one man, one vote for president, for parliament
(47:28):
and local elections. And you can come and survey those
and see that they are actually in some ways better
than our American elections. And so I think Somali Land
should be rewarded for the fact that they have built
a nation. They do not rely on development aid. They
never relied on US eight. That's yeah. So please vibrate
(47:51):
them from what is Somalia Mogadishu, which is just a
broken chihadi place.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Well, I thank you for taking the time, thank you
for joining us. I think this is has been a
very informative podcast. I think our listeners are really going
to get a lot out of it. Let me encourage
our listeners share this podcast if you want your friends,
your family, to understand, understand the threat of political Islam,
what it means, what it's meant in Europe, what it
means here in America. I think it is an incredibly
(48:21):
important topic. It is a very real threat. It is
a threat that I am committed to combating. And one
of the purposes of this podcast is to equip you,
to give you information that when you're talking with your
friends and families and colleagues and co workers, that you
know the truth. And Ayaan, I think this has been very,
very helpful to our listeners. So thank you so much
(48:41):
for joining us.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
Thank you, thank you Ted.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Don't forget We do this show Monday, Wednesday and Friday,
so that subscribe or that auto download button wherever you are,
and like the Center said, please share this on social media.
It's on YouTube as well. You can watch it and
share it there as well. In the center. I will
see you back here on Friday morning.
Host
Ben Ferguson
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