May 10, 2023 • 65 mins
ED SHEERAN WINS! Only a week after the initial trial date, Ed Sheeran won over a grand jury in a copyright infringement case involving “Thinking Out Loud” vs. the family of Ed Townsend and the Marvin Gaye Estate. The stakes were high with Sheeran stating previously that if he lost this case he would QUIT MUSIC. Also, Taylor Swift closes out her Nissan Stadium run by playing in a thunderstorm until 1:35am. A historic night for Nashville as city official breathe a sigh of relief that 70,000 swifties were not disappointed. This and more evey week on The Biztape!
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Sources:
Taylor Swift Rainstorm:
https://variety.com/2023/music/news/taylor-swift-nashville-rain-lightning-concert-delay-1235605928/
Ed Sheeren Lawsuit:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Ed Chieran's Thinking out Loud to the courtroom in this
copyright case.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And Taylor Swift's Midnight Rain. You're listening to the tape, wasn't.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
The biz tape? You're all things music, business and media podcasts.
I'm your host Colin McKay with my lovely host Coast
to Coast Joseph Wazzweski joining me.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hello, Hello, Hello, how are you? I I'm great. I'm
great because I finally I was telling Colin off Mike,
I finally joined the Apple cult. Thank you. Hold your applause,
Hold your applause.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I think you should specify that it's not like not
to be like anyone should not an actual No, actually
keep that that that part I I said. No, The
part I'm like you're saying is that you got a MacBook,
not like you just got an iPhone.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
No, I just bought all of Apple with my money,
right that I have in the bank where money is,
and you.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Know Apple's a bank.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Now, I did see that. I also saw that like
the what is it the Apple credit card or whatever?
It is like horrible interest, right.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I would imagine, yeah, where it's.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Like it's like putting, it's like gonna put people in
severe debt. People are still gonna get it because it's Apple, right,
you gotta have the Apple rules the world.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
So if you want to join the Apple cult, you
can also apply your credit score to it. And yeah, well,
I mean you could do that with a MacBook. A
MacBook's like three grand.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So if people, if people want to tell us their
credit scores, they can tell us at the bistape podcast
wherever you get your social media fix, or email us
at the bis tape p.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's actually a really funny thing if you just like
if we make like if you just sent the credit score, yeah,
but like you have to listen, no, no, no, you have
to listen to the show first. So like maybe we'll
make a post or something and then be like you
know what to do, and then people should just comment
their credit score. But we're not gonna say anything on
social media about it, and we'll just see people go
(02:14):
six eighty three, four or five, like and people are like,
what is going on?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Like, yeah, yeah, that would be good, that'd be good.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
No, context, don't tell anybody.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, all right, we're gonna we're gonna post on on
Instagram a little a little spicy pick and then you
can you can comment under that spicy pick. That sounds like.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Now it's gonna be like, are they betting money on
this spicy pick.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
We're gonna label it spicy pick. Okay when we post.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
It, imbody does this. I hope nobody don't.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
You'll know which one. You'll know which one it is.
But it speaking of Coults, I have a I have
another story. So right, I got stories. Today. I was driving. Uh,
there's like, you know this, this mountain that's like kind
of near my place that's like you know this, Yeah,
(03:08):
it like separates one part of the town from the
other part. Yeah, just the casual mountains. I'm gonna say, yeah,
but you know where like where the Trader Joe's is
and where we had breakfast and stuff. Remember the Trader Okay,
So there's a little pass in the mountain, like you
could go up the mountain and go around and like
you could go to the Trader Joe's. Okay. So I'm
at the Trader Joe's and then I'm driving back with
(03:30):
my partner and all of a sudden we look and
there's this like little nook in with the mountain, and
I swear to God, Colin, it was. It was literally
a cult set up situation. It was like it was
this little nook, yes, and it was four like panels
(03:51):
with like it was like silhouetted figures, and then there
was a little chapel thing right in the middle. Love
it with Like I think there was like a pew
setup happening as well. There was nobody there calling.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Whoa.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
It was just sitting out in public. There's no place
to park. It's just on his fountain. I got it
really fucking creepy.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Any chance, just California, you know, since I live in Tennessee.
I have to ask the music.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Video music video, do we.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Think it was maybe like an art piece? Do we
think it was?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Here's the thing. If it was, it could be an
art piece maybe, But if it was a music video,
they would have tore it. They would have tore it down.
I feel like if it was like a filming situation,
because it was like flimsy looking it was. If it
was a music video, it wasn't gonna be looking to
The pews.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Were flimsy, is what you're saying. Like if you sat
on me, like you're gonna fall over.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Every Yeah, everything was flimsy looking.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
That's how it would be.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I think it. I think it was usable, but it
wasn't like I don't know, it was like it was
a little it was a little suspect, but it it
was like we were coming up around it at like
the point the sun was going down, and it felt very creepy.
Everything was in red. It was like red and black
and it was like some I don't want to like embellish,
(05:12):
but I feel like it was. There was like a
a like goat figure as like the centerpiece thing. It
was like a goat. I guess, I don't know, something
else is like a wolf or something.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Well, loocome back. It was like paranormal activity. Six Joe's
Los Angeles. Yeah, oh my god. All right, Well, I
don't even know where to begin with that. I don't
even know where to end with that.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I'm just gonna say she's just in the podcast. That's it.
That's it, We're done.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I'm gonna choose to move on from that and actually
get to music business news anyway. Uh, Joe, why don't
you start off with this? So we're talking about something
that happened in my own backyard that destroyed the city.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, for many I did not get to witness this,
but I wish I did. I had a lot of
friends go during this night in particular, but Taylor Swift
had her Midnight Rain performance. Do you like what I
did there? Called instead of Purple Rain, Yeah, but she
(06:14):
has a song called Midnight Rain that she played at
midnight in the rain in Nashville.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
You literally could have just made that up.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I keep going, No, no, it's true. It's a Simmailers
have played Nashville's very own Nissan Stadium this past week
during an insane thunderstorm that caused fans and artists alike
to take shelter until about ten pm, which is four
hours after the show was supposed to kick off, with
(06:43):
Phoebe Bridger's and Gracie Abrams schedule to open the show,
but due to the short amount of time, the production
made the decision to cut their sets entirely, with Taylor
Swift just taking the stage right about like ten pm.
So there was like so much rain, Colin you probably
had friends there as well, Like there was like everybody
(07:04):
was like packed underneath the Nissan like automan.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Situation than the shows that it didn't rain.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Oh yeah, no, I mean this was the most like
this was also the last night of the three night run,
so it was like perfect for her and for like
everything to get picked up. But then, I what's crazy
is like seeing all the videos, everybody's just like sitting
in these like concrete like little areas and it looks like,
(07:36):
you know, like when you're in school and you're doing
a tornado warning.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, it didn't help. And then like the way that
like just the outfits of Taylor Swift are very like,
you know, very like glitter.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Everybody was blamed down. Everybody was like wearing pink, and
it was like crazy. But then like like yeah, I
mean it was very much as middle school dance, but
like a lot of sequence, you know, like cut to
cut to the actual performance. The rain was still happening
like during the whole thing. So those of you wondering about,
(08:09):
I guess like let's go back to like how long
it lasted, because the whole show lasted until one thirty
five AM, so ten pm to one thirty five, and this.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Was Sunday, right, so this is really Monday.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Sunday night. She did the whole entire performance, which is
it's pretty insane to think about and those of you
wondering about curfew, because we talked about this with our
last couple of episodes with like Coachella and kind of
the issues that came with, you know, Frank Ocean Set
(08:43):
and everything. H Nissan Stadium is city owned and is
not subject to restrictions that other venues face. So the
local government essentially kept the lights on because they were
terrified to let loose seventy thousand angry Swifties into the wild.
As Billboard puts it, so God, I want you to
(09:06):
imagine this. You're on Broadway, terrible keeps going rain. It's yeah,
I know, it's not a great night. Okay, You're like
free drinks. Someone pulls you out there. You're like, ah,
this is horrible. You'll look down the street. It's it's
also raining, by the way, it's like raining. It's not fun.
You look down the street and you see an armada
(09:28):
of Sequence Taylor Swift Swifties heading down Broadway coming your way.
What is your plan of escape in that moment? The
whole and as you know, like with any concert letout,
all of downtown's fucked. Like trying to get out of
(09:49):
that sphere is almost next to him, possible, Yeah, because.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Like it was so bad just even without the rain
and stuff like that. I can attest to that. There
was a I saw there was a graphic around which
you know, I can't verify the validity of. But Taylor
Swift was playing three nights. Janet Jackson was also playing
Bridge Dome, which was the same thing that happened at
in Atlanta, which was the tour stop before there. And
(10:15):
also there was a like some sort of like brewing convention,
like an IPA brewers convention Music City Center that weekend.
And the really icing on the cake is I believe MTSU,
lipscumb and Belmont, three very major colleges around Nashville. All
we're having graduation at the same time. So it was nightmarish.
(10:36):
So then we add this situation. I don't know what
I'm gonna do here. I mean, I could start running
up Demumbrian, but I'm gonna lose steam. That's just a
giant hill, so is Broadway.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, are you are? You just gonna like run the East?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
But that's the problem is I gotta go through them.
It's like if I got to go through the pedestrian bridge,
then I'm just literally like yeah, like like then I'm
in like a left for day scenario. We're literally on.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
The gonna look like I imagine it's like Lord of the
Rings where you're like looking out and you just see
all right, all the pink, all all everything is just
like coming your way. Yeah, it's just.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
And everybody in that scenario, like everybody's just been pained on, Yeah,
rained on and is mad and so like.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So they're definitely getting drinks. You know that every single
one of them are gonna go.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So as you're saying, like if they closed it maybe
at like ten o'clock, they're like, guys, she's not gonna play,
But most of them would be canceled at that point,
like most of the bars would start kind of closing.
But at the same time, I don't know, you can't
go uptown because if you start going uptown, like again,
you're running up a hill. I'm assuming I'm on foot.
By the way, being in a car sounds worse than
(11:48):
the scenario. Then if you're trying to go uptown and
then maybe across the other bridge near the courthouse, they're
also gonna be there because that's how you get out
of Nissan. It's just I'm screwed, like.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
There's no escape. I think it's like a zombie.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
I think literally what I have to do is run
up to Mumbrian, go to that giant roundabout and just
start running towards like west and just like find a
spot to like hunker down for like an hour or
two and then leave. Like literally, but.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Like you could, you could swim in the river if
you were truly, I'm.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Not touching that water. I've seen from Second Avenue what
people have done in that water, and I'm not touching
that water.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, it's it glows green.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Sometimes I'm not looking at that weird roller coaster monument
across the street. I'm not looking at any of it.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I refuse to we I had an event one time
that was like at the little cafe that's like right
next to that thing. I just don't remember staring. Yeah,
I just remember staring at that thing, just trying to
figure out what the fuck is the reason for it.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I joke, it's a really memorial to people who you know,
had an she on a rollercoaster and sadly passed away.
That's not what it is. It's the weirdest memorial.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Look up the Dollywood memorial yet literally.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Like, I have no idea what that memorial's for. It's
gonna be really sad. If it's something bad, I'm going
to fight figure out what it is.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
But anyway, before we get canceled.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Oh yeah, so anyway, I apologize, I'm sorry if that
is what, whatever that's for, I'm hoping that it's like
for the.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Cob spirit of a mariapologizing. Colin is sitting down, He's
getting ready for his YouTube apology. It's sorry anyway. Swift,
who is a showwoman to the core, brought out amazing
acts during the sets, such as Phoebe, who sung red
Taylor's version and Nothing New, as well as bringing out
(13:46):
collaborate her Aaron Desner from The National, who played along
with Taylor and was actually with her when the rain
started falling down and they kind of just looked at
each other and they said, well, I guess we're doing
this thing, uh, and they cantinued the show, which is
the most metal Taylor Swift show on the planet.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And what's unfortunate is that phoebe intro didn't happen this night,
which Colin, have you seen clips of that at all?
Of she like her Walkouts song is Coorn and it's
like it's like metal, Like there's like flames and shit
happening in the graphics. It's so sick. But what a
(14:28):
way to close out her three night run in Nashvilleville
coll It Well. First off, a serious question here, what
do you think about the people who had to leave,
especially like with families, little kids. Do you think that
they should get their money back in this situation? Do
(14:48):
you think it's fair that those people who had to
leave for like a legitimate reason still have to pay
these these insane Live Nation fees essentially?
Speaker 1 (15:01):
So, I do think that this is where it gets hard,
and this is where terms of service come into play.
Right where you had signed this agreement that no one
has ever read in their lives with lab Nation to
buy this ticket and or yeah I believe it's lab Nation, Yeah,
(15:22):
and you sign this agreement with the promoter. If I'm wrong,
maybe it's a g I don't know. But the point
is is that you signed this agreement no one's ever
read it. And one of those is definitely a weather
clause of some sort, being like you know, if you've
ever read like an insurance document, you know the will
(15:43):
of God or something like that. It's there's gonna be
a statement about that, you know what I mean, Like
if something crazy happens, then like sorry, you know what
I mean, you it just happens. It gets can and
at the end of the day, it didn't get canceled.
They just got postponed, which is a very different scen
because then.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
The dick get postponed very dramatically, like like hours, which
I feel like in most cases might not happen.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Well, you said such high demand that like there is
no reschedule, like if.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
We it's well, and like Billboard points out, it might
be a public safety issue. I guess if you're like
letting all this people out into the.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Rain, oh absolutely, Like yeah, then you're you're going into
shelter in place and all that kind of stuff, especially
with thunderstorms and you know, very bad torrential rain, which
is what people have told me they experience, and you know,
in town literally less than a couple of miles from
the police. Yeah, it was pretty bad, you know what
I mean. Sunday it wasn't like scary bad where I was.
(16:45):
But if you have seventy thousand people, heavy rain and thunderstorms,
that just ensues. Not only like you know, you have
risks of falling, you have risk of you know, electrical
hazards from lightning, but you just also get panic between
crowds and then you know, especially with bad weather, people
get anxious and all that kind of stuff. So like
I completely agree with, hey, let's keep these people in place.
(17:07):
You know, everybody understands, like, we're not doing this on purpose.
This is a safety thing. It's the weather. I mean,
it sucks, but it's not like we're just like, hey,
there's nothing visibly going on and we're just going to
stop the show. It's like, no, it's rain, cats and
dogs out here, and there's thunder, which is the main thing.
I mean, thunder and lightning, which is why they're worried
(17:28):
more about it, which is why they kept going, even
in the little bits of rain that would occur during
the show, because you can do it in the rain. Anyway,
Do I think about refunds here? I would be interested
in an argument for it. I think someone definitely could.
(17:49):
And if I was like Live Nation at the end
of the day, if you were like really on it,
like hey, guys, we were supposed to get out of
here at like eleven o'clock Max, and so I delete,
like an hour into Taylor's show or something. Can I
get a partial refund? I think you should be able
to go, yeah, okay, you know that sucks, And as
(18:10):
a customer service thing, I feel like that's not bad.
But at the same time, they delivered, right, most most
people are buying these tickets, no shade to Phoebe or
you know, any of the other yeah, Gracie, any of
the other openers if this happens too, But like, most
people are buying these tickets to see Taylor swift and
(18:32):
then as an added bonus, these are the openers that
maybe you would also like. That's how a lot of
people see this, in my opinion. So at the end
of the day, Taylor did come on, she did her
full set, she continued to do it. She was there.
There was an opportunity the day of the ticket I
could totally be like, yeah, you know, I'm satisfied. And
(18:54):
I think from a fan perspective, there's a lot of
fans like logistically, if I look from the pspective, just
be like, oh, the weather sucked, but like literally no
one can control that, right, So, and especially with like
rain and you know, random sporadic pieces of weather. Literally
(19:14):
there's no indication.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
You know, come on, con you don't think Live Nation heads,
oh weather Machine go into their their sacrificial room and
pray to the Live Nation got.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I mean in the set like that you guys saw
in California. Yeah, that's where they go.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
But it's office actually yeah right no.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
But like seriously that like no one can predict this,
So I feel like from Live Nation's perspective, they could
totally argue be like, no, she did play, it was postponed.
I mean, it's an extreme postponement. I think that is
as far as they could have postponed, you know what
I mean, Like four hours that's cutting it, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
At the end of the day, Yeah, I mean, it's
pretty incredible that she went through the whole set.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
And that's the other thing. It's a triumph for her,
I think at the end of the day, and especially
the from like a tech perspective, that's a very hard
thing to do, is deal with the rain and the
weather and the sporaded nature of it. Especially with Taylor
who has choreography and you know all this. It's not
like she's not a rock band who just stands there,
(20:23):
you know what I mean, Like she's doing dance moves,
she's running up and down the runway, she's doing.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Costume changes, you know, the stage.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Literally like and so I think like, at the end
of the day, that's a testament to her skill and
her ability as a performer and her dedication to her
fans that she kept on going anyway. I personally think
that because of that and that how that apparent is,
like how apparent that is two fans, that the amount
of people that probably want a refund is very little.
(20:54):
And from a live nation perspective, I bet you it's
so little that I would just be like, just give
it to them, you know what I mean, Like it's
probably an inconsequential amount of people that want this kind
of refund, and it's it's not like it's not like
there's some growing mass that I've heard of that are like, hey, guys,
we should all try to get some partial reform from Ticketmaster,
(21:17):
and like there's some I'm thinking from Ticketmaster's angle like
be like, oh man, I got to think in my head,
if we like start approving refunds, then maybe other people
will come through. I don't think so I think a
lot of people left that show, and honestly, a lot
of people that I saw were kind of like, Wow,
what a very special experience I had, you know what
(21:38):
I mean, Like with Taylor when it rained and stuff like,
it was almost like that sucked, but I get to
be part of something maybe historic, you know. To them, Yeah,
so like it's almost like, in a weird way, like
that sucked, but that was kind of a cool moment
in my life. So I again, I think it's a
very I think the amount of people that would want it.
If I was ticketmaster, I'd be yeah, take, I don't
(22:00):
care whatever, here you go, you know what I mean,
Maybe like less than a thousand people I bet would
ask for refunds for this.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
But do you do you think? So Colin, from your
from your perspective in live entertainment, because you've worked so
many events and work with event professionals on the day
to day, what are some like what's kind of your
perspective of like what's the run through of like a
performance that's dealing with this, I guess, like what's kind
(22:30):
of the breakdown of different things that happen, So like
our audience kind of has an under Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I mean you got to listen at the end of
the day to all of these big events have a
very inline safety plan and a very brick and mortar
if this thing happens, we are doing this and they
will follow that. You know, at the end of the day.
A lot of times they'll you know, the production manager
(22:58):
will you know, be with the venue and use this
large event. There's a safety coordinator, all that kind of stuff,
and they will, you know, bring up, hey, guys, I'm
sure hours before we think it's gonna rain, right in
the middle of the set. We're gonna play it by ear,
but we got to be prepared. Tell all your people
at your respected places, go tell audio, go tell video,
(23:19):
go tell lighting, like you know, everybody who's involved, go tell.
You know, people were doing makeup and costumes. So that
is probably gonna rain, and we're gonna go through our
you know, our kind of step by step process which
you know, if it's gonna rain, then you got to
prepare on the tech side from like protecting the equipment
(23:39):
at the end of the day. I mean, you've got
speakers in the air, you know, you got equipment, electronics
on the ground, you got lighting in the air, all
that kind of stuff. If especially if there's wind, that's
a possibility you have to prepare for. I think we
might need to take down this pa. I think we
might need to take down this trusting you know what
I mean, because at the end of the day, it's
not gonna survive super torrential wins. It'll survive some, but
(24:03):
like not super high bad storm. I mean, I think
everyone here has probably seen a video of a stage collapsing,
and that's where a lot of it comes from. It's
just like high tipping and wind risk. So yeah, they
all start in their respective departments, taking their own precautions.
I mean, being an audio person I am, I would go,
all right, anything that we can, you know, if we
(24:26):
got tarps with with literally a weather caddy, like a
lot of tours will tour with a weather caddy like
that literally is for this idea that like, hey, it's
gonna rain for like two hours and then we're gonna
do the show. Okay, go cover all this random stuff
that's exposed with tarps, you know what I mean. And
so they'll start preparing for that. Then you know, obviously
(24:46):
the production manager's got to go tell the acts and
their respective managers being like, hey, Phoebe, you know, we
don't know. It looks like it's gonna rain really heavy,
but you're gonna get delayed. They're gonna get delayed, and
then probably have real talks with the other Phoebe to
the man as time goes on going, Hey, you know,
they've decided to cut your set all that kind of
stuff between everybody else, you know, and the showrunner and
(25:09):
the promoter and everybody. So they take it one step
at a time at the end of the day, but
a lot of these are locked in. You know, hey,
everybody do your respective things at once. They prepare for
this situation. They have literally binders usually that they keep
around that say this is what you do in this scenario.
And it goes from literally something as simple as this,
(25:32):
it's a raining, there's lightning all the way to there's
an active shooter, there's a fire, there's a bomb, you
know what I mean, like everything in between there. And
when you have literally close to seventy thousand people in
Nissan Stadium all running around, you cannot mess around with
that kind of stuff. So yeah, I yeah, it's so
funny you said that, because my mom actually was like,
(25:53):
how do they do it in the rain? Does it
suck for the equipment? I'm like, oh yeah, baby, it sucks.
It's so bad. I mean, things get wet. I mean,
thankfully most gear, especially at a you know level that
Taylor is, which is you know, in my opinion right now,
the biggest tour in America and probably the biggest tour
(26:15):
in the world in terms of like notoriety. Right now,
there is such a level of high performance gear that
a lot of this gear is weather rise. You know,
a lot of this gear is prepared to work in
weird conditions, be agile with temperature and humidity and all
that kind of stuff. So the main thing for the
text is just trying to keep everything as you know,
(26:38):
operational as possible, which is why you keep with like
spars and all this kind of stuff. You know, the
idea of like, oh, if Taylor has this pack, like
you know, a wireless pack that she listens who are
in ears, the thing gets dredged with water or something,
you know what i mean, like and some water goes
into place, and most of the time the packs are
very well designed to you know, have water come off
(26:59):
of it stuff and all that kind of stuff. But
let's just say something happened. This one's been on tour
for a while and water got into it in the
pack just like jittered out and it doesn't work anymore.
They have to be ready to be like, okay, you
have a second pack, you know what I mean, And
it might be literally on her body. She might have
two packs, you know what I mean, and she might
just switch over the jack in the back of her
like you know, shirt got you know what I mean,
(27:21):
really quick into the other jack and be like, Okay,
I'm ready to go. So that's the kind of forethought
that you have to have, and especially with weather, then
you're gonna risk more failure when it comes to literally
everything on the stage, not as well as safety at
the end of the day. I mean, people fall on
stages that are bone dry. So if you got water,
(27:41):
like oh man, you know what I mean. Like I said,
you got people doing choreography, you got people dancing, you
got all this stuff, and all of that has to
be thought from the beginning of the planning process, right
Like you got to think like, oh well, all this
cable can be on the stage, it can be in
the middle stage. They got to dance here, you know
what I mean, And we don't want anybody to trip over.
And that's in dry weather. Imagine if it's all wet now.
(28:05):
So yeah, I mean at the end of the day,
like a lot of this is thought through, but with
just smart planning from the beginning. But then afterwards, like
you know, if it's something like Taylor or the venue
and everything, it reminds me a lot of There's a
lot of other notable concerts like Guns and Roses have
won in in Los Angeles, I believe in the late eighties.
(28:28):
It's very notable because it caused a giant riot because
they canceled last minute. It literally people were rioting in
the streets, like flipping cars over doing this stuff because
they're so upset that this happened.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
I can see I can see Swifties doing that.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Right, you know what I mean. I would say there's
different crowds, you know what I mean, But at the
same time, you just don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I'm I'm truly serious. I could see I could see
Swifties taking over the world.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Well yeah, if they wanted to, I think so too.
I just think the thing is is that you know,
with seventy thousand people if you think they can't do something,
I guarantee you they can. And at the end of
the day, it's just all this weather stuff causes so
much more of a risk for the crew and also
a risk for Taylor and the team and the equipment.
(29:18):
So for them doing that, that really shows like, hey,
we are choosing as a community that is on this tour,
you know, to do our best to power through because
we want to make sure these seventy thousand fans are
one obviously getting their money's worth. Two they've been waiting
the rain forever, and three we don't want anything crazy
(29:40):
to potentially happen, you know what I mean, Like, we
don't want, you know, a mob mentality to just randomly
break out. I'm not going to say that like, oh,
of course I would think Swifties would do this. I'm
just saying, when you have seventy thousand people that all have,
you know, a upset, anxious emotion, you do not know
what will happen, you know what I mean, and so
(30:01):
you have to prepare for the worst. So I think
this was the move at the end of the day,
was to keep going through it. And I'm glad the
city government just you know, Nashville didn't do anything to
like be like, ah, let's just get rid of it.
It's like twelve o'clock. It's too late. Yea, it's a Monday.
Like I'm really glad that it was like Okay, let's
keep going, you know what I mean. And even though
(30:23):
it was one thirty five am. I think a lot
of people thankfully did have a really good time. And
I've heard nobody say like, oh, wow, that sucked. You know,
there was like it rained or whatever, and there's a
bunch of technical difference. No, they powered through it. They
were ready, you know what I mean, That crew and
Taylor were. So I think they created out of a
bad experience a very unique experience for people that people
(30:46):
will go, I was there, you know what I mean,
in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Three, people are going to be really, yeah, really stoked
about it. So I don't know, I don't know, pretty
great great concert experience, honestly.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Yeah, And that's hard to take the show. That's really
hard to take from a very very obtusive negative or
obtuse negative experience, like literally that should just be oh
this is gonna suck. To make it into an event.
It almost reminds me. It reminds me in the same way,
but even less so because again, she's playing for four hours.
(31:18):
It's raining, it's not raining. It's raining, it's not raining.
But like when Prince played, you know, the Super Bowl
while it was raining, right, yeah, like that's the but
she did it for like four hours. So good on
her and her team for powering threats.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Well, Colin, what is up next?
Speaker 1 (31:36):
All right, let's talk about this. People have asked me
to talk about this. I was waiting for it to
conclude before we really talked about it. We're talking about
Ed Sheeran and this copyright case he's been involved with.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Which which concluded pretty fast. I thought it was gonna
take a lot more time, right, honestly.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So this was a very notable case for a couple
of reasons. It had the potential to be as huge
of a case that we've talked about it multiple times
on the show, but you can look into it yourself.
Is the Blurred Lines versus Marvin Gay case, where it
has huge ramifications of what is considered precedent for copyright,
(32:18):
specifically with songs, and the two parties involved in this
case that we're going to talk about right now, are
sadly very not unfamiliar with the legal system. And so
the first one is Ed Sheeran. So Ed Sheeran obviously
has been and I'll get into it later, been out
of the court system literally since the twenty tens, with
(32:39):
various consistent copyright battles over and over and over, and
he's has been getting it literally since his career really
started a plateau like with copyright claims and all this
kind of stuff. The song that this time is getting
accosted with was Thinking Out Loud, which you know, a
lot of people know because it was a huge, mega
(33:01):
hit song and it was at the forefront of everything
for a very good amount of time and then it
kind of fell out. But it's one of Ed's signature
songs that he takes a lot of pride in. And
so this lawsuit that was brought against him specifically was
by the family of Ed Townsend, which are we noticing
(33:22):
a trend here? I hear a lot of the family
of and not a lot of the artists doing this
a lot of the time. But Ed Townsend was the
co writer with Marvin Gay and Marvin Gay and him
wrote the signature hit Let's Get it on, which they
alleged that Thinking out Loud took the rhythm, chord progression
(33:43):
and other elements from without the permission, from the nineteen
seventy three song by Marvin Gay. So again, all three
of those things rhythm copyright, rhythm chord progression and other
elements by themselves are not copyrightable, but together are the
core basis of a song. Right, So what they're trying
(34:05):
to say is like, hey, you have copied or this
is derivative is what the word would be from our song.
And together your elements add up to something that is
applicable and also very easy to notice that this is
a copy or derivative of our song. Right. So the
(34:27):
guy who was the attorney for the plaintiffs and so
that would be Ed Townsend and them is a guy
named Ben Crump, and he alleged that Sheeron quote recognize
the magic Let's get it on, and infringed on its
copyright for the tune, and that the case is about
giving credit where credit is due. Sure right, sure it is, so,
(34:51):
Ed Sheeron again, I'll tell you what the songs are.
It's Let's get it on and Thinking out Loud. If
you want to pause this right now. I found a
YouTube video of them like kind of played like one
section of one and one section of the other, and
you're gonna see spoilers. How ridiculous this case is. Anyway,
Ed Sheeran has been fighting this fight literally forever, and
(35:15):
he's freaking done with Quartz, Like he is so done
with it. Like he even went on to state that,
like if this case went on and he lost, he said, quote,
if that happens, I'm done. I'm stopping, which he's talking
about playing music and writing songs.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, is insane, right.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
He goes, I find it really insulting to work my
whole life as a singer songwriter and diminish it. Which
I don't blame him, because if you listen to those
two songs back to back, what the hell is the
connection other than the key is the same.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
It's there's zero connection at all, And like that's the
thing that like what's funny is like the comments sometimes
the YouTube it's really hit, you know, but I love
like where everyone's just like especially the Marvin Gay estate,
they're known to sue a bunch of people, and it
is it's funny because it's like, yeah, that chord progression
(36:14):
was the same. We owned that chord progression because our
father did it one time, and now he owns that
chord progression. No, that's not how songwriting works. It's not
how the process of it works. And they're trying to
monopolize songwriting in a horrible way. And it's truly what's honestly,
(36:38):
truly dumbfounded about this whole situation is like I don't
think Marvin gay would have wanted this at all or
or anything. Yeah, I just don't think their families were
in touch enough of like how the industry actually works
for them to like they don't have any stake in
(36:58):
the industry. Besides, they view as like, oh, this is
our piggy bank. We can just like keep gushing some
coins out of this thing, you know. And it's it's
surely sad. It's it's very sad, especially because his estate,
the Marvin Gaye State, is so wealthy already, right, Like,
do you need more money from people at the end
(37:20):
of the day, Yeah, anyway, I'll drop off my soapbox. No.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
I mean I think you're hidden it. I think you're
hidden it right on the nail. I mean, it's kind
of insane, Like if you again, I encourage you to
listen to both songs and come back to me and
tell me, like and go this song. I would immediately go, oh,
and I'm gonna play a little Devil's advocate. I understand
from like a basic earworm thing going there's a similarity there,
(37:49):
But there's so many songs that are similar that it
is insane that this would be enough to go, hey,
this is effectively the same song, right, And so let
me tell you a little bit about the court case.
Ed was not messing around. He literally was like multiple
(38:09):
times taking the stand. He would take the stand and
he would literally bring his guitar out and sing to
the court, to the court just showing them the differences,
like going like this is different, this is that. Like
literally he is at the lowest level showing the differences
between these songs.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
And here there was apparently right and he was.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
He was literally not having it, especially with this musicologist.
He was not having it. So the plaintiffs, the Townshend family,
brought in this guy named Alexander Stewart, and he's a musicologist,
which usually in my experience, only comes up when it
is a copyright case. I don't. I don't hear a
lot about musicologists unless we got to prove that somebody
violated copyright. But basically, Alexander Stewart was brought by the
(38:59):
Towns of Family to show the similarities between the song,
which I do agree there are similarities, but not enough
to be copyrightedly like the same or derivative right, Like
you can hear there's like a downward inflection in like
some of the lines or whatever. You can hear like
the keys the same or whatever. But literally, people are
laughing at this guy on the stand. He tried to
(39:20):
play this like ai version of both songs to show
that they were the same, and literally the chord started laughing.
He did he literally did, Yes, Ed ed Apparently it
was it was written that Ed was like hiding a
smile because he thought it was so bad, Like it
looks like he's trying not to laugh because obviously he's
in court and this is very serious.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
They also showed which this was hilarious to me. They
showed live footage where Sharan played both songs like back
to back in a concert, so like he's playing thinking
out loud to do a little transition and then they
play let's get.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
It on right.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
And what's crazy about that is that like they were
so the plaintiffs, so the towns of family was so
like we got them with this. They said quite simply
that like, I can't believe it.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
The plaintiffs was smoking smoking gun. Yeah, right, that's what
they said.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yeah, he said it was the smoking gun. And then
they said it was tantamount to a confession m h
and Ed Sheeron rebutted with it's quite simple to weave
songs in and out of each other, especially when they're
in the same key. And then my favorite was after
the music cologist goes all the smoking gun stuff, Ed
(40:40):
Sheeron takes the stand and basically tells the plaintiff's attorney
is cross examining him, asking him questions, and they asked
about the musicologists, and he goes, if I can be honest,
I think what he's doing here is criminal, which is wild.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Wait who and Sharon, he's talking about the musicologist.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
He said, if I can be honest, I think what
he's doing here is criminal talking about the musicologist. WHOA
And I'll leave you with this Townshend's daughter, who's the
wead plaintiffs whose name is Catherine Thomson Griffin Townsend. Griffin
took the witness stand and also said, he go she
(41:23):
goes well. She shouldn't say that well, but I like
to imagine she did. She goes well. And Sharon is
a great artist with a great future. Like he's not
a giant artist already, Like he's like, you know, plain
little Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
He's okay, he'll.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Get there, you know, like like he's not giant.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
It's like me.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
It's literally like me being like Taylor Swift, a great
artist with a great future, you know what I mean.
It's like, all right, you.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Know what, maybe this guy should do the music thing.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
It's got that tone. It's like those documentaries where like,
you know, it would be like led Zeppelin talking about
like you know, Rob Plant talking about like rete Van
Pleiet be like those kids got a great future, you
know what I mean, Like okay, whatever, But he's she said, quote,
I have to protect my father's legacy. So they lost,
plain and simple. Ed Sheeran did win the case and
(42:17):
was delighted for many reasons because, like I told you,
he's literally been in court cases since the twenty tens,
ever since he got really big around twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen.
It is amazing how many court cases he's been in.
One of the most notable ones was also I was
just gonna mention really quickly was and this is the
one we talked about a bit, is he was involved
(42:40):
in a copyright suit for the Shape of You, and
these like two grime artists went after him right and said, hey,
you stole our song again. In my opinion, just like
this one, two very different songs that I would be like,
they're in the same key and they have maybe like
a downward inflection, you know what I mean. But I
would never confuse these two songs together. I don't think
(43:03):
like it uses a part of it or anything like that.
But the point that I'm trying to say is that
I wonder with this because Ed Sheeran recently and this
is a recent development one like from my understanding, more
compensation from the Grimes artists and now like those grime
(43:24):
rappers have to pay Ed Sheeran one point one million
dollars in legal fees. Whoa which say, like, and this
was it, I should mention this is in the UK court,
so it's a little bit different, but like, yeah, they're
ordering that they pay one point one million dollars in
legal fees, because, to be honest, if I'm Ed Sheeron
(43:46):
and I'm getting all these cases because guys, look at
the freaking numbers of Ed Sheeran. I've talked about how
he was literally one of the biggest touring artists of
last year, and we you know, he doesn't get mentioned.
He's still a huge artist, so he's's a big target,
right And like, and he makes pop music, so it's
even a bigger target, right. So, like, he basically is
(44:08):
just saying, can I have my lawyer fees? It costs
me a million dollars and lawyer fees to defend all
the shit and all the travel to go to where
I needed to go all this kind of stuff, right, Like,
it's not outrageous, Like, and I'm kinda I'm I'm wondering
if he's gonna get or try to get something similar
to that in this case to go. You knew this
(44:30):
case was not worth anyone's time, and.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
It was so much not worth anyone's time. It took
a week.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
It literally took a week.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Because the judge was like and the jury were like,
this is dumb.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
And I wonder if like, you know, we could see
somebody come from Ed Cheeran's camp and go, you owe
us legal fees, give us legal fees because you wasted
our time and something close to that. And you know,
not to be like he has precedent, but he kind
of has precedent, you know what I mean to be like, Yeah,
these other people sued me, and I would like, you know,
(45:07):
money for that too, so I would not be surprised
if he comes after this estate. And to be honest, Joe,
I kind of wanted to open up to that. We've
seen a lot in the last twenty years, you know,
when me and you were coming up through the industry,
a lot of these fruitless lawsuits. Personally, I think partially
due to the ease of access of the Internet, you know,
and everything. When it comes to music and being able
(45:29):
to compare music so openly. There's even music there's even
videos I can find on YouTube four years ago that
are like just making a fun hypothetical argument should thinking
out loud as thinking out loud close to uh, let's
get it on, like literally there's videos from four years ago,
So the internet's adding to this. And then there's families
(45:50):
that have money that you know, are trying to reap
the rewards of these copyrights they inherit from the estate.
Do we think we should have more penalties towards these
families like that are just going after some of these,
in my opinion, frivolous lawsuits.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
To be honest, I I'm back and forth on it
because like, on one level, I'm like, yes, I do
think so, because like there is a level of this
is different than like someone actually suing that's like a
lower level artist. I feel like because these people have
done it so many times in the in the past,
(46:29):
and they have they have literally made careers off of
winning their legal battles from their father's estate essentially. And
what I feel like is kind of a tricky situation
is where where it could it could actually potentially if
(46:52):
if those restrictions were put into place, it could really
restrict someone whose situation was like this is blainright infringement
and they have like a bad judge in a bad jury.
That's true, And so like there is a level of
that that I'm like, maybe not, however, maybe there's like
a sliding scale of it of like these people are
(47:16):
really trying to there's a level of like what I
like about it is is if you lose and you
have to pay all this money to the person that
you are trying to sue at the beginning, it does
set a precedent to other people thinking about suing that, Hmmm,
maybe I shouldn't do that, Maybe I should Maybe I
(47:37):
should double check my sources here or put more thought
into it, and maybe maybe it would get rid of
a lot of these frivolous lawsuits. Yeah, I mean, I
definitely think they're pervasive in the music industry, and they always.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Have been to an extent. But I I really think
like we do need some of the precedent of being like, hey,
you brought something. Obviously this is very interpretive, but like
the idea of being like, hey, I should be able
to sue you for this stuff because I want my
legal fees, you know what I mean, because you've sued me.
(48:13):
And like, on top of that, I think for some
people you could even argue damages to be like people
thought I just copied other people's songs because of you,
you know what I mean, And so they, you know,
maybe I lost a record deal, maybe I lost a
publishing deal because they thought, oh no, you might write
a song that will cause a giant lawsuit, you know
what I mean. So I wonder from that aspect if
(48:35):
we could see some formal kind of maybe even legislation,
if we want to go that far, but definitely precedent
of going, Hey, if you're going to give us these
frivolous lawsuits, then I'm coming after you back, you know
what I mean, especially for music stuff. And I don't
really know. I definitely think and I want your opinion
(48:57):
about this, Joe. I think this is definitely a u
nique era of these battles because of the tools and
the ease of access that we have with music. I mean,
to be honest, to really be honest, Like the ability
and fastness of like getting a lawyer, representation and stuff
(49:19):
has been sped up dramatically. The amount of people that
know about this copyright issues and the power of owning
these copyrights has gone up dramatically. And then just the
ease of access of music. I mean, if you go back,
like literally, if you go back to forties and like
thirties and fifties records, yeah, all the time you go
this is the same song. This is the exact same song,
(49:40):
Like it is ungodly the same song. But I wonder if, like,
you know, people were making YouTube.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
It was kind of part of the culture of it
right too, but making music.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
I wonder if, like I think there's a balance. I
definitely think there's a balance, and I think as like,
as a legal system, we are still figuring out with
the balance is in terms of copyrights. But I think
because of the ease of access of everything with the
Internet and streaming specifically, I think we're figuring out. Oh god,
we got to figure out this issue fast, you know
(50:13):
what I mean? Because again, it's gone through at least
three or four of these lawsuits, and we've covered at
least I believe two of them on the show, and
it's really draining. And thankfully Ed is you know, in
a position to have more resources to defend himself, you
know what I mean. But it is also like, I
(50:34):
don't think it's necessarily a thing that we need to
be like, oh, this is just part of being a musician.
That's big. You're just gonna get sued by a thousand
people because your song, you know what I mean. Again,
he is getting sued only because his song vaguely has
a hint of sounding similar and he's having close to
a million dollars in legal fees, and I wonder, like
(50:58):
I'm saying, if there needs to be legislate around that,
going like, hey, if you guys are doing all these
and I know there's slap laws and all that kind
of stuff with like for frivolous lawsuits, but maybe specifically
towards music stuff and precedent towards that, going, hey, you
can't just keep doing it, and we could go I mean,
I'd go on and on about this is like also
the families, right, we're talking about families. I really don't
(51:20):
think like you're saying, a lot of songwriters understand and
get the culture of you take the nuances from one
person and a nuance from another in your own and
you mix them all together and that's your music.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
And so I think for a lot of people, especially
families who are maybe not as like high profile and
you know, they could be musicians. But what I mean
by like who have a high level of nuance with
music not saying that I do by any means I
want to throw that in there, but people who really
understand the craft can go no, I can hear and
(51:56):
see the difference in that but maybe if you're Joe
Schmoe out there, you'd be like, this is the song song,
you know what I mean, Like it's the same thing,
and then they go, we should go sue them, And
then you go talk to some lawyer and then like
they're like, Ed Sheering's worth how much amount of money?
Let's just sue them anyway, maybe we'll win, Like maybe
he'll just be like, here's one hundred thousand dollars, go away,
you know what I mean. So, I honestly think it
(52:20):
is part of also the length of a copyright, you know,
the life of an author. What is it plus one
hundred and twenty years, I think is what it is,
which is insane, you know what I mean. So, and
and with the plethora of information out there and the
ability to compare these songs that are able, I think
we're just like I said, I think we're just gonna
(52:42):
see more and more. So I don't think we're necessarily
I don't want to. I don't want to go from
the front end. I don't want to go from the
front end and say, hey, you need to have this
burden of proof to have a lawsuit about copyright, because
I agree with you I think there are people that
are gonna get lost in transit. I think it's more
of you better have it, You better really believe in this,
(53:03):
like one hundred percent, because if you don't, you're paying
it sharance legal fees, you know what I mean. And I,
you know, somewhat smarter than I's gonna have to come
up with the way legally, I think to figure out
like how the precedent for that would be. But I
don't know. It's it's all about you know, at the
end of the day, music is very cyclical. I mean,
(53:25):
there's new things that develop with technology and stuff, but
there's sounds that just repeat over and over and over.
Not to be like we've discovered everything with music, but
like we kind of have discovered a lot of things
with music, and there's things that fall in and out
of fashion. You can see that with any media literally,
like fashion is another example. You know, one year's style
(53:45):
is another year's faux pas. That kind of stuff, And
the same thing with music where they're just going to
copy stuff. And I think it's really important to note
like in this period, let me take you back to
deep what is it? What would that be? God? I
feel so old almost ten years ago when thinking out
Loud and that whole Ed Sheeran kind of wave really started.
(54:08):
Ed Sheeran was an oddity at the time because we
had gone through I mean, I remember growing up through this.
Everything became super electronic heavy. In the late twenty tens,
you know what I mean, Like or the early twenty tens,
we had like the real rise of trap music. We
had EDM really become EDM, you know what I mean.
(54:28):
We had I mean, for God's sakes, Taylor Swift was
releasing albums that sound like DM music now, you know
what I mean. And ed came out and people were like,
oh my god, this is a breath of fresh air
on popular radio. It's it's just a you know, guy
with a guitar and all that kind of stuff. And
I think that's what rose him to fame, is that
he had that kind of stuff that was cyclical like it.
(54:52):
It wasn't in the fold anymore, right, It wasn't a
part of popular music right then. And do I think
like part of it could be like, yeah, it was
influenced by older music absolutely. There's actually a quote in
here that says his producers called this song his van
Morrison song, right, like yeah, and so like I think
(55:13):
there is merit to going oh yeah, they're going to
be influenced by it. But you don't own a chord progression.
You don't own everything that is Ed Sheeran in that song,
he didn't cover your song. He made a completely new
song that happens to be in the same key, you
know what I mean. So that's what I'm saying is
like I think innately music is very cyclical, and the
(55:35):
more it's not a problem with music. I will say that,
and I personally believe that. And we did a poll
which Joe, I love to know your information about this,
but I'm personally I don't believe so because in general
this popular music copy too much from past music. And
sixty four percent of you said no, and thirty six
(55:56):
percent of you said yes, which I am more in
the camp of no. You know, it is there is
there is a couple of things that drive new sound
and new technology is one. You know, we're seeing that
with AI and all that kind of stuff. We're seeing
that with just stylistic tastes that come up. But also
there is a cyclical nature to music where it just
(56:16):
comes back through the fold. And I don't think artists
should be punished for that, because how do you learn
a craft without watching other craftsmen, without trying to be
another Bicasso.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
Well, and everybody's influenced at the end of the day,
everybody's been influenced by another artist. There's literally, I mean
there's millennia of artists that have come and died and
have made amazing work that we still somewhat recreate to
this day. And I mean, like, look at how many
(56:52):
fucking TV shows and movies rip off Shakespeare, right, But
everybody's like, oh, if you do that, then it's fine. Yeah,
like that means you're deep. But it's like, no, you're
just ripping off Shakespeare. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:04):
And at the end of the day, it's like it's
it's like weird, how cut and dry the legal system
is with songs sometimes, you know what I mean. We
can all like that's a great example. It's like we
can all look at the movie that's almost the exact
same plot, but we don't see all these lawsuits. That's like, hey,
this is a Sleepless in Seattle basically again we're suing you. Now, Yeah,
(57:25):
this is Dances with Wolves again, all right? Go after
James Cameron an avatar, you know what I mean, Like
we don't see that in other art stuff. So it's
weird that like songs are policed to a different level
than everything else. But I I you know, I think.
Speaker 2 (57:42):
You know, to be honest, one, I think the reason
that is is because lawsuits and people suing for it
have gotten away with it so so much more in
the music space, yeah, than in a visual space. I think,
like with visual medium you have more information to base
off of, and so like a lot more people have to,
(58:03):
like to be honest, when you're watching a TV show
and you're like, shit, shit looks weird. Like you don't
have to be a master filmmaker to know when something
looks off. Mm hmm, you know what I mean. And so,
like I think, like with music, when it when it
comes to the craft of music of like writing the song,
(58:23):
there is a little bit of like back end knowledge
or talent that you have to have that Like I
think a lot of everyday people struggle with visualizing, right
if that makes sense, Like how to write a song,
Like this is the way you know, these are the differences.
I yeah, And it's kind of just like this is
a good song, right exactly, and that's completely fine. I mean,
(58:45):
like at the same time that like maybe I get
a piece of furniture by some craftsman and then another
person tries to copy it, and then I show it
to the first craftsman and they go, ah, this isn't
even the freaking same you say, these planner joints not
even close, you know what I mean. I'd be like,
what are you telling talking about?
Speaker 1 (59:00):
You know what I mean? Like, but to them, they
can see that kind of stuff, and I think you're
completely right, especially with the family angle. I think there
is some times going oh yeah, for sure, and then
a musicologist gets to have his own check, being like,
oh yeah, they're similar. Let me point it out. It'll
be like thirty thousand dollars for me to point it out,
but I'll do it, you know what I mean. If
(59:20):
you win, I don't care. I still get a check
in the end. But at the end of the day,
I think or credit is the other thing. I think, Yeah,
it's it's a fight that's going to keep going on,
and not to be a red not to like I
hate red herring arguments, being like what about this, But like,
also I have listened to songs that are five times
(59:43):
more you know that. I go, oh, I've turned to
Joe in a car and been like, they're gonna get
sued for this, you know what I mean, And they
don't get sue.
Speaker 2 (59:54):
It's crazy. But it's also because I think a lot
of people are like, what's the harm?
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Right? And I think there's a respect to that culture
of this is influence or this is a kind of
a you know, maybe an encore or a tribute to
what we're influenced by, right, And I think there is
aligned with that. But I still think and I don't
think we ever will get there. But I especially think
in the amount of data and stuff that we have
(01:00:22):
now in the Internet age, we have no idea how
to make that determination. Yet it is just all whatever,
you know, whatever. The judge that's there and the court
that's there figures it out, and that's what's scary, and
determines precedent, and that's what's the job of the court
to uphold. Is go well, in this one case, this
could have giant legal ramifications beyond this one thing. I
(01:00:45):
could not imagine if he lost, what would happen, you
know what I mean? Because again, and I will literally
and mention this until I die on the show. Is
the Marvin Gaye board Lines case is one of the
most important copyright cases in the history of music copy
right and it's it all comes o again. I don't
think we would even have this lawsuit without that case,
(01:01:07):
and that's how it all builds up together.
Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Well, have you been listening to Marvin Gaye this week?
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
I actually did listen to What's going On, like the
whole album funny enough. At work. I was like, right,
I was writing this down and I was like, fa
the Father and you know, just going through all that.
But yeah, I was listening to that was pretty good.
What about what about You?
Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
I've been listening. Girl House came out with a new EP.
It's called the Fourth EP. It is so masterfully done.
It's such a it's such a great piece of work.
Definitely recommend checking it out. They they're based in Nashville, actually,
but I think perhaps might be really relocating. I'm not sure,
(01:01:59):
but Nashville act. It's amazing. And then in May three
came out with new stuff which is crazy. Uh new
track Amnesia, It's pretty cool. Recommend checking it out.
Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
I had I was gonna tell you. I Uh, I
was listening to there's a new song that I think
you would like because I know your interests, and it
is called It's by Wolfman, which is.
Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Jack Volfpek's cousin.
Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Yeah literally literally not even dragging, but no, it's a
Jack from Wolfpec. Like that's his like solo project is Wolfman,
which I like because Wolfpec's kind of been like on
this like hiatus, like somebody put it so eloquently. At work,
they went, yeah, Wulfpeck just like randomly like now, just
like joins together, sells out Madison Square Garden and then
(01:02:51):
they leave and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what
they do. It's it's really weird, but that's kind of awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
I think they're gonna be like one of those bands
that it's like they're so famous but they're not.
Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
You know what, you know what, you know what. It
reminds me. I was thinking about this day.
Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
The band Boston.
Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
Boston is actually a good example, but they're they were
more mainstream. I almost want to say Oingo Boingo because
people know about Oingo Boingo people in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Yeah, but likes pretty massive.
Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Chicago big hits. I mean like so I don't know,
you know America.
Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
That's the one.
Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
Wolfman, which is like Jack, who's Jack Stratton, who's like
the leader of it. Has this new song I really like.
It's called I Can't Party. Yeah, and uh it's like
everyone's putting it in, like the fans commenting on it
put it in the best way. It is like Cake,
like the band Cake, but it's like modern Cake, which
(01:03:52):
I thought was really interesting. It's like a funkier Cake
because it's very monologue esc you know, and it's just
got like a bunch of humor jokes in it the
entire time that you know, dark, like that kind of
dry humor where they just leave the joke under the
table and it's just long pauses after saying a joke.
But uh, good quick, yeah, go listen to it the
YouTube video before. It's really good. It's so simplistic that
(01:04:15):
it's like great, you know what I mean, And I
really like it. I'm very excited to see if Wulfeck
will actually make some more stuff here in a second.
Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
So and I'm gonna listen to Cake right now.
Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
Dude, we have a fight at work at Cake, but.
Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
With Cake, you got it?
Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
No, no, no, so like they hate cake at work, Like
here's like some detractors, and then I got one guy
likes cake, So I'll just put on cake and I'll
just watched them all goo god damn it. And then
the funniest one and then the one guy going yeah.
And then the funniest one is there's one person that
doesn't know anything about cake, and so I'll play it
(01:04:56):
and I'll play like the weird covers they do, like
if you want a good example, look up I will survive. Yeah,
I look up, I will survive by cake. And I
remember they looked at me and they go, like the
puzzling look on their face, brow cross, all this stuff,
and they just look at me as the song starts playing,
and they just go, I don't like this. Thanks for
(01:05:18):
listening to the Busy tape You're All Things music, because
it's a media podcast. We sure do appreciate you out there.
If you want to go one step further for us,
who really helps out the show follow us at the
biz tape pretty much everywhere. That's probably the best way
of support the show as well sharing it to a friend,
you know, if you give it to one friend and
then give it to another friend, and he gives it
to two friends. We'll have like, what is that like
seven million people right there. Anyways, guys, we appreciate you,
(01:05:42):
Thank you so much for listening, and we hope to
see you next time.
Ed Chieran's Thinking out Loud to the courtroom in this
copyright case.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And Taylor Swift's Midnight Rain. You're listening to the tape, wasn't.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
The biz tape? You're all things music, business and media podcasts.
I'm your host Colin McKay with my lovely host Coast
to Coast Joseph Wazzweski joining me.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hello, Hello, Hello, how are you? I I'm great. I'm
great because I finally I was telling Colin off Mike,
I finally joined the Apple cult. Thank you. Hold your applause,
Hold your applause.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I think you should specify that it's not like not
to be like anyone should not an actual No, actually
keep that that that part I I said. No, The
part I'm like you're saying is that you got a MacBook,
not like you just got an iPhone.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
No, I just bought all of Apple with my money,
right that I have in the bank where money is,
and you.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Know Apple's a bank.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Now, I did see that. I also saw that like
the what is it the Apple credit card or whatever?
It is like horrible interest, right.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I would imagine, yeah, where it's.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Like it's like putting, it's like gonna put people in
severe debt. People are still gonna get it because it's Apple, right,
you gotta have the Apple rules the world.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
So if you want to join the Apple cult, you
can also apply your credit score to it. And yeah, well,
I mean you could do that with a MacBook. A
MacBook's like three grand.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So if people, if people want to tell us their
credit scores, they can tell us at the bistape podcast
wherever you get your social media fix, or email us
at the bis tape p.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's actually a really funny thing if you just like
if we make like if you just sent the credit score, yeah,
but like you have to listen, no, no, no, you have
to listen to the show first. So like maybe we'll
make a post or something and then be like you
know what to do, and then people should just comment
their credit score. But we're not gonna say anything on
social media about it, and we'll just see people go
(02:14):
six eighty three, four or five, like and people are like,
what is going on?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Like, yeah, yeah, that would be good, that'd be good.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
No, context, don't tell anybody.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, all right, we're gonna we're gonna post on on
Instagram a little a little spicy pick and then you
can you can comment under that spicy pick. That sounds like.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Now it's gonna be like, are they betting money on
this spicy pick.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
We're gonna label it spicy pick. Okay when we post.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
It, imbody does this. I hope nobody don't.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
You'll know which one. You'll know which one it is.
But it speaking of Coults, I have a I have
another story. So right, I got stories. Today. I was driving. Uh,
there's like, you know this, this mountain that's like kind
of near my place that's like you know this, Yeah,
(03:08):
it like separates one part of the town from the
other part. Yeah, just the casual mountains. I'm gonna say, yeah,
but you know where like where the Trader Joe's is
and where we had breakfast and stuff. Remember the Trader Okay,
So there's a little pass in the mountain, like you
could go up the mountain and go around and like
you could go to the Trader Joe's. Okay. So I'm
at the Trader Joe's and then I'm driving back with
(03:30):
my partner and all of a sudden we look and
there's this like little nook in with the mountain, and
I swear to God, Colin, it was. It was literally
a cult set up situation. It was like it was
this little nook, yes, and it was four like panels
(03:51):
with like it was like silhouetted figures, and then there
was a little chapel thing right in the middle. Love
it with Like I think there was like a pew
setup happening as well. There was nobody there calling.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Whoa.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
It was just sitting out in public. There's no place
to park. It's just on his fountain. I got it
really fucking creepy.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Any chance, just California, you know, since I live in Tennessee.
I have to ask the music.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Video music video, do we.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Think it was maybe like an art piece? Do we
think it was?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Here's the thing. If it was, it could be an
art piece maybe, But if it was a music video,
they would have tore it. They would have tore it down.
I feel like if it was like a filming situation,
because it was like flimsy looking it was. If it
was a music video, it wasn't gonna be looking to
The pews.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Were flimsy, is what you're saying. Like if you sat
on me, like you're gonna fall over.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Every Yeah, everything was flimsy looking.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
That's how it would be.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I think it. I think it was usable, but it
wasn't like I don't know, it was like it was
a little it was a little suspect, but it it
was like we were coming up around it at like
the point the sun was going down, and it felt very creepy.
Everything was in red. It was like red and black
and it was like some I don't want to like embellish,
(05:12):
but I feel like it was. There was like a
a like goat figure as like the centerpiece thing. It
was like a goat. I guess, I don't know, something
else is like a wolf or something.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Well, loocome back. It was like paranormal activity. Six Joe's
Los Angeles. Yeah, oh my god. All right, Well, I
don't even know where to begin with that. I don't
even know where to end with that.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I'm just gonna say she's just in the podcast. That's it.
That's it, We're done.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I'm gonna choose to move on from that and actually
get to music business news anyway. Uh, Joe, why don't
you start off with this? So we're talking about something
that happened in my own backyard that destroyed the city.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, for many I did not get to witness this,
but I wish I did. I had a lot of
friends go during this night in particular, but Taylor Swift
had her Midnight Rain performance. Do you like what I
did there? Called instead of Purple Rain, Yeah, but she
(06:14):
has a song called Midnight Rain that she played at
midnight in the rain in Nashville.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
You literally could have just made that up.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I keep going, No, no, it's true. It's a Simmailers
have played Nashville's very own Nissan Stadium this past week
during an insane thunderstorm that caused fans and artists alike
to take shelter until about ten pm, which is four
hours after the show was supposed to kick off, with
(06:43):
Phoebe Bridger's and Gracie Abrams schedule to open the show,
but due to the short amount of time, the production
made the decision to cut their sets entirely, with Taylor
Swift just taking the stage right about like ten pm.
So there was like so much rain, Colin you probably
had friends there as well, Like there was like everybody
(07:04):
was like packed underneath the Nissan like automan.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Situation than the shows that it didn't rain.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Oh yeah, no, I mean this was the most like
this was also the last night of the three night run,
so it was like perfect for her and for like
everything to get picked up. But then, I what's crazy
is like seeing all the videos, everybody's just like sitting
in these like concrete like little areas and it looks like,
(07:36):
you know, like when you're in school and you're doing
a tornado warning.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, it didn't help. And then like the way that
like just the outfits of Taylor Swift are very like,
you know, very like glitter.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Everybody was blamed down. Everybody was like wearing pink, and
it was like crazy. But then like like yeah, I
mean it was very much as middle school dance, but
like a lot of sequence, you know, like cut to
cut to the actual performance. The rain was still happening
like during the whole thing. So those of you wondering about,
(08:09):
I guess like let's go back to like how long
it lasted, because the whole show lasted until one thirty
five AM, so ten pm to one thirty five, and this.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Was Sunday, right, so this is really Monday.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Sunday night. She did the whole entire performance, which is
it's pretty insane to think about and those of you
wondering about curfew, because we talked about this with our
last couple of episodes with like Coachella and kind of
the issues that came with, you know, Frank Ocean Set
(08:43):
and everything. H Nissan Stadium is city owned and is
not subject to restrictions that other venues face. So the
local government essentially kept the lights on because they were
terrified to let loose seventy thousand angry Swifties into the wild.
As Billboard puts it, so God, I want you to
(09:06):
imagine this. You're on Broadway, terrible keeps going rain. It's yeah,
I know, it's not a great night. Okay, You're like
free drinks. Someone pulls you out there. You're like, ah,
this is horrible. You'll look down the street. It's it's
also raining, by the way, it's like raining. It's not fun.
You look down the street and you see an armada
(09:28):
of Sequence Taylor Swift Swifties heading down Broadway coming your way.
What is your plan of escape in that moment? The
whole and as you know, like with any concert letout,
all of downtown's fucked. Like trying to get out of
(09:49):
that sphere is almost next to him, possible, Yeah, because.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Like it was so bad just even without the rain
and stuff like that. I can attest to that. There
was a I saw there was a graphic around which
you know, I can't verify the validity of. But Taylor
Swift was playing three nights. Janet Jackson was also playing
Bridge Dome, which was the same thing that happened at
in Atlanta, which was the tour stop before there. And
(10:15):
also there was a like some sort of like brewing convention,
like an IPA brewers convention Music City Center that weekend.
And the really icing on the cake is I believe MTSU,
lipscumb and Belmont, three very major colleges around Nashville. All
we're having graduation at the same time. So it was nightmarish.
(10:36):
So then we add this situation. I don't know what
I'm gonna do here. I mean, I could start running
up Demumbrian, but I'm gonna lose steam. That's just a
giant hill, so is Broadway.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, are you are? You just gonna like run the East?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
But that's the problem is I gotta go through them.
It's like if I got to go through the pedestrian bridge,
then I'm just literally like yeah, like like then I'm
in like a left for day scenario. We're literally on.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
The gonna look like I imagine it's like Lord of the
Rings where you're like looking out and you just see
all right, all the pink, all all everything is just
like coming your way. Yeah, it's just.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
And everybody in that scenario, like everybody's just been pained on, Yeah,
rained on and is mad and so like.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So they're definitely getting drinks. You know that every single
one of them are gonna go.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So as you're saying, like if they closed it maybe
at like ten o'clock, they're like, guys, she's not gonna play,
But most of them would be canceled at that point,
like most of the bars would start kind of closing.
But at the same time, I don't know, you can't
go uptown because if you start going uptown, like again,
you're running up a hill. I'm assuming I'm on foot.
By the way, being in a car sounds worse than
(11:48):
the scenario. Then if you're trying to go uptown and
then maybe across the other bridge near the courthouse, they're
also gonna be there because that's how you get out
of Nissan. It's just I'm screwed, like.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
There's no escape. I think it's like a zombie.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
I think literally what I have to do is run
up to Mumbrian, go to that giant roundabout and just
start running towards like west and just like find a
spot to like hunker down for like an hour or
two and then leave. Like literally, but.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Like you could, you could swim in the river if
you were truly, I'm.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Not touching that water. I've seen from Second Avenue what
people have done in that water, and I'm not touching
that water.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, it's it glows green.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Sometimes I'm not looking at that weird roller coaster monument
across the street. I'm not looking at any of it.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I refuse to we I had an event one time
that was like at the little cafe that's like right
next to that thing. I just don't remember staring. Yeah,
I just remember staring at that thing, just trying to
figure out what the fuck is the reason for it.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I joke, it's a really memorial to people who you know,
had an she on a rollercoaster and sadly passed away.
That's not what it is. It's the weirdest memorial.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Look up the Dollywood memorial yet literally.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Like, I have no idea what that memorial's for. It's
gonna be really sad. If it's something bad, I'm going
to fight figure out what it is.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
But anyway, before we get canceled.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Oh yeah, so anyway, I apologize, I'm sorry if that
is what, whatever that's for, I'm hoping that it's like
for the.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Cob spirit of a mariapologizing. Colin is sitting down, He's
getting ready for his YouTube apology. It's sorry anyway. Swift,
who is a showwoman to the core, brought out amazing
acts during the sets, such as Phoebe, who sung red
Taylor's version and Nothing New, as well as bringing out
(13:46):
collaborate her Aaron Desner from The National, who played along
with Taylor and was actually with her when the rain
started falling down and they kind of just looked at
each other and they said, well, I guess we're doing
this thing, uh, and they cantinued the show, which is
the most metal Taylor Swift show on the planet.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And what's unfortunate is that phoebe intro didn't happen this night,
which Colin, have you seen clips of that at all?
Of she like her Walkouts song is Coorn and it's
like it's like metal, Like there's like flames and shit
happening in the graphics. It's so sick. But what a
(14:28):
way to close out her three night run in Nashvilleville
coll It Well. First off, a serious question here, what
do you think about the people who had to leave,
especially like with families, little kids. Do you think that
they should get their money back in this situation? Do
(14:48):
you think it's fair that those people who had to
leave for like a legitimate reason still have to pay
these these insane Live Nation fees essentially?
Speaker 1 (15:01):
So, I do think that this is where it gets hard,
and this is where terms of service come into play.
Right where you had signed this agreement that no one
has ever read in their lives with lab Nation to
buy this ticket and or yeah I believe it's lab Nation, Yeah,
(15:22):
and you sign this agreement with the promoter. If I'm wrong,
maybe it's a g I don't know. But the point
is is that you signed this agreement no one's ever
read it. And one of those is definitely a weather
clause of some sort, being like you know, if you've
ever read like an insurance document, you know the will
(15:43):
of God or something like that. It's there's gonna be
a statement about that, you know what I mean, Like
if something crazy happens, then like sorry, you know what
I mean, you it just happens. It gets can and
at the end of the day, it didn't get canceled.
They just got postponed, which is a very different scen
because then.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
The dick get postponed very dramatically, like like hours, which
I feel like in most cases might not happen.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Well, you said such high demand that like there is
no reschedule, like if.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
We it's well, and like Billboard points out, it might
be a public safety issue. I guess if you're like
letting all this people out into the.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Rain, oh absolutely, Like yeah, then you're you're going into
shelter in place and all that kind of stuff, especially
with thunderstorms and you know, very bad torrential rain, which
is what people have told me they experience, and you know,
in town literally less than a couple of miles from
the police. Yeah, it was pretty bad, you know what
I mean. Sunday it wasn't like scary bad where I was.
(16:45):
But if you have seventy thousand people, heavy rain and thunderstorms,
that just ensues. Not only like you know, you have
risks of falling, you have risk of you know, electrical
hazards from lightning, but you just also get panic between
crowds and then you know, especially with bad weather, people
get anxious and all that kind of stuff. So like
I completely agree with, hey, let's keep these people in place.
(17:07):
You know, everybody understands, like, we're not doing this on purpose.
This is a safety thing. It's the weather. I mean,
it sucks, but it's not like we're just like, hey,
there's nothing visibly going on and we're just going to
stop the show. It's like, no, it's rain, cats and
dogs out here, and there's thunder, which is the main thing.
I mean, thunder and lightning, which is why they're worried
(17:28):
more about it, which is why they kept going, even
in the little bits of rain that would occur during
the show, because you can do it in the rain. Anyway,
Do I think about refunds here? I would be interested
in an argument for it. I think someone definitely could.
(17:49):
And if I was like Live Nation at the end
of the day, if you were like really on it,
like hey, guys, we were supposed to get out of
here at like eleven o'clock Max, and so I delete,
like an hour into Taylor's show or something. Can I
get a partial refund? I think you should be able
to go, yeah, okay, you know that sucks, And as
(18:10):
a customer service thing, I feel like that's not bad.
But at the same time, they delivered, right, most most
people are buying these tickets, no shade to Phoebe or
you know, any of the other yeah, Gracie, any of
the other openers if this happens too, But like, most
people are buying these tickets to see Taylor swift and
(18:32):
then as an added bonus, these are the openers that
maybe you would also like. That's how a lot of
people see this, in my opinion. So at the end
of the day, Taylor did come on, she did her
full set, she continued to do it. She was there.
There was an opportunity the day of the ticket I
could totally be like, yeah, you know, I'm satisfied. And
(18:54):
I think from a fan perspective, there's a lot of
fans like logistically, if I look from the pspective, just
be like, oh, the weather sucked, but like literally no
one can control that, right, So, and especially with like
rain and you know, random sporadic pieces of weather. Literally
(19:14):
there's no indication.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
You know, come on, con you don't think Live Nation heads,
oh weather Machine go into their their sacrificial room and
pray to the Live Nation got.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
I mean in the set like that you guys saw
in California. Yeah, that's where they go.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
But it's office actually yeah right no.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
But like seriously that like no one can predict this,
So I feel like from Live Nation's perspective, they could
totally argue be like, no, she did play, it was postponed.
I mean, it's an extreme postponement. I think that is
as far as they could have postponed, you know what
I mean, Like four hours that's cutting it, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
At the end of the day, Yeah, I mean, it's
pretty incredible that she went through the whole set.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
And that's the other thing. It's a triumph for her,
I think at the end of the day, and especially
the from like a tech perspective, that's a very hard
thing to do, is deal with the rain and the
weather and the sporaded nature of it. Especially with Taylor
who has choreography and you know all this. It's not
like she's not a rock band who just stands there,
(20:23):
you know what I mean, Like she's doing dance moves,
she's running up and down the runway, she's doing.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Costume changes, you know, the stage.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Literally like and so I think like, at the end
of the day, that's a testament to her skill and
her ability as a performer and her dedication to her
fans that she kept on going anyway. I personally think
that because of that and that how that apparent is,
like how apparent that is two fans, that the amount
of people that probably want a refund is very little.
(20:54):
And from a live nation perspective, I bet you it's
so little that I would just be like, just give
it to them, you know what I mean, Like it's
probably an inconsequential amount of people that want this kind
of refund, and it's it's not like it's not like
there's some growing mass that I've heard of that are like, hey, guys,
we should all try to get some partial reform from Ticketmaster,
(21:17):
and like there's some I'm thinking from Ticketmaster's angle like
be like, oh man, I got to think in my head,
if we like start approving refunds, then maybe other people
will come through. I don't think so I think a
lot of people left that show, and honestly, a lot
of people that I saw were kind of like, Wow,
what a very special experience I had, you know what
(21:38):
I mean, Like with Taylor when it rained and stuff like,
it was almost like that sucked, but I get to
be part of something maybe historic, you know. To them, Yeah,
so like it's almost like, in a weird way, like
that sucked, but that was kind of a cool moment
in my life. So I again, I think it's a
very I think the amount of people that would want it.
If I was ticketmaster, I'd be yeah, take, I don't
(22:00):
care whatever, here you go, you know what I mean,
Maybe like less than a thousand people I bet would
ask for refunds for this.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
But do you do you think? So Colin, from your
from your perspective in live entertainment, because you've worked so
many events and work with event professionals on the day
to day, what are some like what's kind of your
perspective of like what's the run through of like a
performance that's dealing with this, I guess, like what's kind
(22:30):
of the breakdown of different things that happen, So like
our audience kind of has an under Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I mean you got to listen at the end of
the day to all of these big events have a
very inline safety plan and a very brick and mortar
if this thing happens, we are doing this and they
will follow that. You know, at the end of the day.
A lot of times they'll you know, the production manager
(22:58):
will you know, be with the venue and use this
large event. There's a safety coordinator, all that kind of stuff,
and they will, you know, bring up, hey, guys, I'm
sure hours before we think it's gonna rain, right in
the middle of the set. We're gonna play it by ear,
but we got to be prepared. Tell all your people
at your respected places, go tell audio, go tell video,
(23:19):
go tell lighting, like you know, everybody who's involved, go tell.
You know, people were doing makeup and costumes. So that
is probably gonna rain, and we're gonna go through our
you know, our kind of step by step process which
you know, if it's gonna rain, then you got to
prepare on the tech side from like protecting the equipment
(23:39):
at the end of the day. I mean, you've got
speakers in the air, you know, you got equipment, electronics
on the ground, you got lighting in the air, all
that kind of stuff. If especially if there's wind, that's
a possibility you have to prepare for. I think we
might need to take down this pa. I think we
might need to take down this trusting you know what
I mean, because at the end of the day, it's
not gonna survive super torrential wins. It'll survive some, but
(24:03):
like not super high bad storm. I mean, I think
everyone here has probably seen a video of a stage collapsing,
and that's where a lot of it comes from. It's
just like high tipping and wind risk. So yeah, they
all start in their respective departments, taking their own precautions.
I mean, being an audio person I am, I would go,
all right, anything that we can, you know, if we
(24:26):
got tarps with with literally a weather caddy, like a
lot of tours will tour with a weather caddy like
that literally is for this idea that like, hey, it's
gonna rain for like two hours and then we're gonna
do the show. Okay, go cover all this random stuff
that's exposed with tarps, you know what I mean. And
so they'll start preparing for that. Then you know, obviously
(24:46):
the production manager's got to go tell the acts and
their respective managers being like, hey, Phoebe, you know, we
don't know. It looks like it's gonna rain really heavy,
but you're gonna get delayed. They're gonna get delayed, and
then probably have real talks with the other Phoebe to
the man as time goes on going, Hey, you know,
they've decided to cut your set all that kind of
stuff between everybody else, you know, and the showrunner and
(25:09):
the promoter and everybody. So they take it one step
at a time at the end of the day, but
a lot of these are locked in. You know, hey,
everybody do your respective things at once. They prepare for
this situation. They have literally binders usually that they keep
around that say this is what you do in this scenario.
And it goes from literally something as simple as this,
(25:32):
it's a raining, there's lightning all the way to there's
an active shooter, there's a fire, there's a bomb, you
know what I mean, like everything in between there. And
when you have literally close to seventy thousand people in
Nissan Stadium all running around, you cannot mess around with
that kind of stuff. So yeah, I yeah, it's so
funny you said that, because my mom actually was like,
(25:53):
how do they do it in the rain? Does it
suck for the equipment? I'm like, oh yeah, baby, it sucks.
It's so bad. I mean, things get wet. I mean,
thankfully most gear, especially at a you know level that
Taylor is, which is you know, in my opinion right now,
the biggest tour in America and probably the biggest tour
(26:15):
in the world in terms of like notoriety. Right now,
there is such a level of high performance gear that
a lot of this gear is weather rise. You know,
a lot of this gear is prepared to work in
weird conditions, be agile with temperature and humidity and all
that kind of stuff. So the main thing for the
text is just trying to keep everything as you know,
(26:38):
operational as possible, which is why you keep with like
spars and all this kind of stuff. You know, the
idea of like, oh, if Taylor has this pack, like
you know, a wireless pack that she listens who are
in ears, the thing gets dredged with water or something,
you know what i mean, like and some water goes
into place, and most of the time the packs are
very well designed to you know, have water come off
(26:59):
of it stuff and all that kind of stuff. But
let's just say something happened. This one's been on tour
for a while and water got into it in the
pack just like jittered out and it doesn't work anymore.
They have to be ready to be like, okay, you
have a second pack, you know what I mean, And
it might be literally on her body. She might have
two packs, you know what I mean, and she might
just switch over the jack in the back of her
like you know, shirt got you know what I mean,
(27:21):
really quick into the other jack and be like, Okay,
I'm ready to go. So that's the kind of forethought
that you have to have, and especially with weather, then
you're gonna risk more failure when it comes to literally
everything on the stage, not as well as safety at
the end of the day. I mean, people fall on
stages that are bone dry. So if you got water,
(27:41):
like oh man, you know what I mean. Like I said,
you got people doing choreography, you got people dancing, you
got all this stuff, and all of that has to
be thought from the beginning of the planning process, right
Like you got to think like, oh well, all this
cable can be on the stage, it can be in
the middle stage. They got to dance here, you know
what I mean, And we don't want anybody to trip over.
And that's in dry weather. Imagine if it's all wet now.
(28:05):
So yeah, I mean at the end of the day,
like a lot of this is thought through, but with
just smart planning from the beginning. But then afterwards, like
you know, if it's something like Taylor or the venue
and everything, it reminds me a lot of There's a
lot of other notable concerts like Guns and Roses have
won in in Los Angeles, I believe in the late eighties.
(28:28):
It's very notable because it caused a giant riot because
they canceled last minute. It literally people were rioting in
the streets, like flipping cars over doing this stuff because
they're so upset that this happened.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
I can see I can see Swifties doing that.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Right, you know what I mean. I would say there's
different crowds, you know what I mean, But at the
same time, you just don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I'm I'm truly serious. I could see I could see
Swifties taking over the world.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Well yeah, if they wanted to, I think so too.
I just think the thing is is that you know,
with seventy thousand people if you think they can't do something,
I guarantee you they can. And at the end of
the day, it's just all this weather stuff causes so
much more of a risk for the crew and also
a risk for Taylor and the team and the equipment.
(29:18):
So for them doing that, that really shows like, hey,
we are choosing as a community that is on this tour,
you know, to do our best to power through because
we want to make sure these seventy thousand fans are
one obviously getting their money's worth. Two they've been waiting
the rain forever, and three we don't want anything crazy
(29:40):
to potentially happen, you know what I mean, Like, we
don't want, you know, a mob mentality to just randomly
break out. I'm not going to say that like, oh,
of course I would think Swifties would do this. I'm
just saying, when you have seventy thousand people that all have,
you know, a upset, anxious emotion, you do not know
what will happen, you know what I mean, and so
(30:01):
you have to prepare for the worst. So I think
this was the move at the end of the day,
was to keep going through it. And I'm glad the
city government just you know, Nashville didn't do anything to
like be like, ah, let's just get rid of it.
It's like twelve o'clock. It's too late. Yea, it's a Monday.
Like I'm really glad that it was like Okay, let's
keep going, you know what I mean. And even though
(30:23):
it was one thirty five am. I think a lot
of people thankfully did have a really good time. And
I've heard nobody say like, oh, wow, that sucked. You know,
there was like it rained or whatever, and there's a
bunch of technical difference. No, they powered through it. They
were ready, you know what I mean, That crew and
Taylor were. So I think they created out of a
bad experience a very unique experience for people that people
(30:46):
will go, I was there, you know what I mean,
in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Three, people are going to be really, yeah, really stoked
about it. So I don't know, I don't know, pretty
great great concert experience, honestly.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Yeah, And that's hard to take the show. That's really
hard to take from a very very obtusive negative or
obtuse negative experience, like literally that should just be oh
this is gonna suck. To make it into an event.
It almost reminds me. It reminds me in the same way,
but even less so because again, she's playing for four hours.
(31:18):
It's raining, it's not raining. It's raining, it's not raining.
But like when Prince played, you know, the Super Bowl
while it was raining, right, yeah, like that's the but
she did it for like four hours. So good on
her and her team for powering threats.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Well, Colin, what is up next?
Speaker 1 (31:36):
All right, let's talk about this. People have asked me
to talk about this. I was waiting for it to
conclude before we really talked about it. We're talking about
Ed Sheeran and this copyright case he's been involved with.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Which which concluded pretty fast. I thought it was gonna
take a lot more time, right, honestly.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So this was a very notable case for a couple
of reasons. It had the potential to be as huge
of a case that we've talked about it multiple times
on the show, but you can look into it yourself.
Is the Blurred Lines versus Marvin Gay case, where it
has huge ramifications of what is considered precedent for copyright,
(32:18):
specifically with songs, and the two parties involved in this
case that we're going to talk about right now, are
sadly very not unfamiliar with the legal system. And so
the first one is Ed Sheeran. So Ed Sheeran obviously
has been and I'll get into it later, been out
of the court system literally since the twenty tens, with
(32:39):
various consistent copyright battles over and over and over, and
he's has been getting it literally since his career really
started a plateau like with copyright claims and all this
kind of stuff. The song that this time is getting
accosted with was Thinking Out Loud, which you know, a
lot of people know because it was a huge, mega
(33:01):
hit song and it was at the forefront of everything
for a very good amount of time and then it
kind of fell out. But it's one of Ed's signature
songs that he takes a lot of pride in. And
so this lawsuit that was brought against him specifically was
by the family of Ed Townsend, which are we noticing
(33:22):
a trend here? I hear a lot of the family
of and not a lot of the artists doing this
a lot of the time. But Ed Townsend was the
co writer with Marvin Gay and Marvin Gay and him
wrote the signature hit Let's Get it on, which they
alleged that Thinking out Loud took the rhythm, chord progression
(33:43):
and other elements from without the permission, from the nineteen
seventy three song by Marvin Gay. So again, all three
of those things rhythm copyright, rhythm chord progression and other
elements by themselves are not copyrightable, but together are the
core basis of a song. Right, So what they're trying
(34:05):
to say is like, hey, you have copied or this
is derivative is what the word would be from our song.
And together your elements add up to something that is
applicable and also very easy to notice that this is
a copy or derivative of our song. Right. So the
(34:27):
guy who was the attorney for the plaintiffs and so
that would be Ed Townsend and them is a guy
named Ben Crump, and he alleged that Sheeron quote recognize
the magic Let's get it on, and infringed on its
copyright for the tune, and that the case is about
giving credit where credit is due. Sure right, sure it is, so,
(34:51):
Ed Sheeron again, I'll tell you what the songs are.
It's Let's get it on and Thinking out Loud. If
you want to pause this right now. I found a
YouTube video of them like kind of played like one
section of one and one section of the other, and
you're gonna see spoilers. How ridiculous this case is. Anyway,
Ed Sheeran has been fighting this fight literally forever, and
(35:15):
he's freaking done with Quartz, Like he is so done
with it. Like he even went on to state that,
like if this case went on and he lost, he said, quote,
if that happens, I'm done. I'm stopping, which he's talking
about playing music and writing songs.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, is insane, right.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
He goes, I find it really insulting to work my
whole life as a singer songwriter and diminish it. Which
I don't blame him, because if you listen to those
two songs back to back, what the hell is the
connection other than the key is the same.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
It's there's zero connection at all, And like that's the
thing that like what's funny is like the comments sometimes
the YouTube it's really hit, you know, but I love
like where everyone's just like especially the Marvin Gay estate,
they're known to sue a bunch of people, and it
is it's funny because it's like, yeah, that chord progression
(36:14):
was the same. We owned that chord progression because our
father did it one time, and now he owns that
chord progression. No, that's not how songwriting works. It's not
how the process of it works. And they're trying to
monopolize songwriting in a horrible way. And it's truly what's honestly,
(36:38):
truly dumbfounded about this whole situation is like I don't
think Marvin gay would have wanted this at all or
or anything. Yeah, I just don't think their families were
in touch enough of like how the industry actually works
for them to like they don't have any stake in
(36:58):
the industry. Besides, they view as like, oh, this is
our piggy bank. We can just like keep gushing some
coins out of this thing, you know. And it's it's
surely sad. It's it's very sad, especially because his estate,
the Marvin Gaye State, is so wealthy already, right, Like,
do you need more money from people at the end
(37:20):
of the day, Yeah, anyway, I'll drop off my soapbox. No.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
I mean I think you're hidden it. I think you're
hidden it right on the nail. I mean, it's kind
of insane, Like if you again, I encourage you to
listen to both songs and come back to me and
tell me, like and go this song. I would immediately go, oh,
and I'm gonna play a little Devil's advocate. I understand
from like a basic earworm thing going there's a similarity there,
(37:49):
But there's so many songs that are similar that it
is insane that this would be enough to go, hey,
this is effectively the same song, right, And so let
me tell you a little bit about the court case.
Ed was not messing around. He literally was like multiple
(38:09):
times taking the stand. He would take the stand and
he would literally bring his guitar out and sing to
the court, to the court just showing them the differences,
like going like this is different, this is that. Like
literally he is at the lowest level showing the differences
between these songs.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
And here there was apparently right and he was.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
He was literally not having it, especially with this musicologist.
He was not having it. So the plaintiffs, the Townshend family,
brought in this guy named Alexander Stewart, and he's a musicologist,
which usually in my experience, only comes up when it
is a copyright case. I don't. I don't hear a
lot about musicologists unless we got to prove that somebody
violated copyright. But basically, Alexander Stewart was brought by the
(38:59):
Towns of Family to show the similarities between the song,
which I do agree there are similarities, but not enough
to be copyrightedly like the same or derivative right, Like
you can hear there's like a downward inflection in like
some of the lines or whatever. You can hear like
the keys the same or whatever. But literally, people are
laughing at this guy on the stand. He tried to
(39:20):
play this like ai version of both songs to show
that they were the same, and literally the chord started laughing.
He did he literally did, Yes, Ed ed Apparently it
was it was written that Ed was like hiding a
smile because he thought it was so bad, Like it
looks like he's trying not to laugh because obviously he's
in court and this is very serious.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
They also showed which this was hilarious to me. They
showed live footage where Sharan played both songs like back
to back in a concert, so like he's playing thinking
out loud to do a little transition and then they
play let's get.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
It on right.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
And what's crazy about that is that like they were
so the plaintiffs, so the towns of family was so
like we got them with this. They said quite simply
that like, I can't believe it.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
The plaintiffs was smoking smoking gun. Yeah, right, that's what
they said.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yeah, he said it was the smoking gun. And then
they said it was tantamount to a confession m h
and Ed Sheeron rebutted with it's quite simple to weave
songs in and out of each other, especially when they're
in the same key. And then my favorite was after
the music cologist goes all the smoking gun stuff, Ed
(40:40):
Sheeron takes the stand and basically tells the plaintiff's attorney
is cross examining him, asking him questions, and they asked
about the musicologists, and he goes, if I can be honest,
I think what he's doing here is criminal, which is wild.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Wait who and Sharon, he's talking about the musicologist.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
He said, if I can be honest, I think what
he's doing here is criminal talking about the musicologist. WHOA
And I'll leave you with this Townshend's daughter, who's the
wead plaintiffs whose name is Catherine Thomson Griffin Townsend. Griffin
took the witness stand and also said, he go she
(41:23):
goes well. She shouldn't say that well, but I like
to imagine she did. She goes well. And Sharon is
a great artist with a great future. Like he's not
a giant artist already, Like he's like, you know, plain
little Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
He's okay, he'll.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Get there, you know, like like he's not giant.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
It's like me.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
It's literally like me being like Taylor Swift, a great
artist with a great future, you know what I mean.
It's like, all right, you.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Know what, maybe this guy should do the music thing.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
It's got that tone. It's like those documentaries where like,
you know, it would be like led Zeppelin talking about
like you know, Rob Plant talking about like rete Van
Pleiet be like those kids got a great future, you
know what I mean, Like okay, whatever, But he's she said, quote,
I have to protect my father's legacy. So they lost,
plain and simple. Ed Sheeran did win the case and
(42:17):
was delighted for many reasons because, like I told you,
he's literally been in court cases since the twenty tens,
ever since he got really big around twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen.
It is amazing how many court cases he's been in.
One of the most notable ones was also I was
just gonna mention really quickly was and this is the
one we talked about a bit, is he was involved
(42:40):
in a copyright suit for the Shape of You, and
these like two grime artists went after him right and said, hey,
you stole our song again. In my opinion, just like
this one, two very different songs that I would be like,
they're in the same key and they have maybe like
a downward inflection, you know what I mean. But I
would never confuse these two songs together. I don't think
(43:03):
like it uses a part of it or anything like that.
But the point that I'm trying to say is that
I wonder with this because Ed Sheeran recently and this
is a recent development one like from my understanding, more
compensation from the Grimes artists and now like those grime
(43:24):
rappers have to pay Ed Sheeran one point one million
dollars in legal fees. Whoa which say, like, and this
was it, I should mention this is in the UK court,
so it's a little bit different, but like, yeah, they're
ordering that they pay one point one million dollars in
legal fees, because, to be honest, if I'm Ed Sheeron
(43:46):
and I'm getting all these cases because guys, look at
the freaking numbers of Ed Sheeran. I've talked about how
he was literally one of the biggest touring artists of
last year, and we you know, he doesn't get mentioned.
He's still a huge artist, so he's's a big target,
right And like, and he makes pop music, so it's
even a bigger target, right. So, like, he basically is
(44:08):
just saying, can I have my lawyer fees? It costs
me a million dollars and lawyer fees to defend all
the shit and all the travel to go to where
I needed to go all this kind of stuff, right, Like,
it's not outrageous, Like, and I'm kinda I'm I'm wondering
if he's gonna get or try to get something similar
to that in this case to go. You knew this
(44:30):
case was not worth anyone's time, and.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
It was so much not worth anyone's time. It took
a week.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
It literally took a week.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Because the judge was like and the jury were like,
this is dumb.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
And I wonder if like, you know, we could see
somebody come from Ed Cheeran's camp and go, you owe
us legal fees, give us legal fees because you wasted
our time and something close to that. And you know,
not to be like he has precedent, but he kind
of has precedent, you know what I mean to be like, Yeah,
these other people sued me, and I would like, you know,
(45:07):
money for that too, so I would not be surprised
if he comes after this estate. And to be honest, Joe,
I kind of wanted to open up to that. We've
seen a lot in the last twenty years, you know,
when me and you were coming up through the industry,
a lot of these fruitless lawsuits. Personally, I think partially
due to the ease of access of the Internet, you know,
and everything. When it comes to music and being able
(45:29):
to compare music so openly. There's even music there's even
videos I can find on YouTube four years ago that
are like just making a fun hypothetical argument should thinking
out loud as thinking out loud close to uh, let's
get it on, like literally there's videos from four years ago,
So the internet's adding to this. And then there's families
(45:50):
that have money that you know, are trying to reap
the rewards of these copyrights they inherit from the estate.
Do we think we should have more penalties towards these
families like that are just going after some of these,
in my opinion, frivolous lawsuits.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
To be honest, I I'm back and forth on it
because like, on one level, I'm like, yes, I do
think so, because like there is a level of this
is different than like someone actually suing that's like a
lower level artist. I feel like because these people have
done it so many times in the in the past,
(46:29):
and they have they have literally made careers off of
winning their legal battles from their father's estate essentially. And
what I feel like is kind of a tricky situation
is where where it could it could actually potentially if
(46:52):
if those restrictions were put into place, it could really
restrict someone whose situation was like this is blainright infringement
and they have like a bad judge in a bad jury.
That's true, And so like there is a level of
that that I'm like, maybe not, however, maybe there's like
a sliding scale of it of like these people are
(47:16):
really trying to there's a level of like what I
like about it is is if you lose and you
have to pay all this money to the person that
you are trying to sue at the beginning, it does
set a precedent to other people thinking about suing that, Hmmm,
maybe I shouldn't do that, Maybe I should Maybe I
(47:37):
should double check my sources here or put more thought
into it, and maybe maybe it would get rid of
a lot of these frivolous lawsuits. Yeah, I mean, I
definitely think they're pervasive in the music industry, and they always.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Have been to an extent. But I I really think
like we do need some of the precedent of being like, hey,
you brought something. Obviously this is very interpretive, but like
the idea of being like, hey, I should be able
to sue you for this stuff because I want my
legal fees, you know what I mean, because you've sued me.
(48:13):
And like, on top of that, I think for some
people you could even argue damages to be like people
thought I just copied other people's songs because of you,
you know what I mean, And so they, you know,
maybe I lost a record deal, maybe I lost a
publishing deal because they thought, oh no, you might write
a song that will cause a giant lawsuit, you know
what I mean. So I wonder from that aspect if
(48:35):
we could see some formal kind of maybe even legislation,
if we want to go that far, but definitely precedent
of going, Hey, if you're going to give us these
frivolous lawsuits, then I'm coming after you back, you know
what I mean, especially for music stuff. And I don't
really know. I definitely think and I want your opinion
(48:57):
about this, Joe. I think this is definitely a u
nique era of these battles because of the tools and
the ease of access that we have with music. I mean,
to be honest, to really be honest, Like the ability
and fastness of like getting a lawyer, representation and stuff
(49:19):
has been sped up dramatically. The amount of people that
know about this copyright issues and the power of owning
these copyrights has gone up dramatically. And then just the
ease of access of music. I mean, if you go back,
like literally, if you go back to forties and like
thirties and fifties records, yeah, all the time you go
this is the same song. This is the exact same song,
(49:40):
Like it is ungodly the same song. But I wonder if, like,
you know, people were making YouTube.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
It was kind of part of the culture of it
right too, but making music.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
I wonder if, like I think there's a balance. I
definitely think there's a balance, and I think as like,
as a legal system, we are still figuring out with
the balance is in terms of copyrights. But I think
because of the ease of access of everything with the
Internet and streaming specifically, I think we're figuring out. Oh god,
we got to figure out this issue fast, you know
(50:13):
what I mean? Because again, it's gone through at least
three or four of these lawsuits, and we've covered at
least I believe two of them on the show, and
it's really draining. And thankfully Ed is you know, in
a position to have more resources to defend himself, you
know what I mean. But it is also like, I
(50:34):
don't think it's necessarily a thing that we need to
be like, oh, this is just part of being a musician.
That's big. You're just gonna get sued by a thousand
people because your song, you know what I mean. Again,
he is getting sued only because his song vaguely has
a hint of sounding similar and he's having close to
a million dollars in legal fees, and I wonder, like
(50:58):
I'm saying, if there needs to be legislate around that,
going like, hey, if you guys are doing all these
and I know there's slap laws and all that kind
of stuff with like for frivolous lawsuits, but maybe specifically
towards music stuff and precedent towards that, going, hey, you
can't just keep doing it, and we could go I mean,
I'd go on and on about this is like also
the families, right, we're talking about families. I really don't
(51:20):
think like you're saying, a lot of songwriters understand and
get the culture of you take the nuances from one
person and a nuance from another in your own and
you mix them all together and that's your music.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
And so I think for a lot of people, especially
families who are maybe not as like high profile and
you know, they could be musicians. But what I mean
by like who have a high level of nuance with
music not saying that I do by any means I
want to throw that in there, but people who really
understand the craft can go no, I can hear and
(51:56):
see the difference in that but maybe if you're Joe
Schmoe out there, you'd be like, this is the song song,
you know what I mean, Like it's the same thing,
and then they go, we should go sue them, And
then you go talk to some lawyer and then like
they're like, Ed Sheering's worth how much amount of money?
Let's just sue them anyway, maybe we'll win, Like maybe
he'll just be like, here's one hundred thousand dollars, go away,
you know what I mean. So, I honestly think it
(52:20):
is part of also the length of a copyright, you know,
the life of an author. What is it plus one
hundred and twenty years, I think is what it is,
which is insane, you know what I mean. So, and
and with the plethora of information out there and the
ability to compare these songs that are able, I think
we're just like I said, I think we're just gonna
(52:42):
see more and more. So I don't think we're necessarily
I don't want to. I don't want to go from
the front end. I don't want to go from the
front end and say, hey, you need to have this
burden of proof to have a lawsuit about copyright, because
I agree with you I think there are people that
are gonna get lost in transit. I think it's more
of you better have it, You better really believe in this,
(53:03):
like one hundred percent, because if you don't, you're paying
it sharance legal fees, you know what I mean. And I,
you know, somewhat smarter than I's gonna have to come
up with the way legally, I think to figure out
like how the precedent for that would be. But I
don't know. It's it's all about you know, at the
end of the day, music is very cyclical. I mean,
(53:25):
there's new things that develop with technology and stuff, but
there's sounds that just repeat over and over and over.
Not to be like we've discovered everything with music, but
like we kind of have discovered a lot of things
with music, and there's things that fall in and out
of fashion. You can see that with any media literally,
like fashion is another example. You know, one year's style
(53:45):
is another year's faux pas. That kind of stuff, And
the same thing with music where they're just going to
copy stuff. And I think it's really important to note
like in this period, let me take you back to
deep what is it? What would that be? God? I
feel so old almost ten years ago when thinking out
Loud and that whole Ed Sheeran kind of wave really started.
(54:08):
Ed Sheeran was an oddity at the time because we
had gone through I mean, I remember growing up through this.
Everything became super electronic heavy. In the late twenty tens,
you know what I mean, Like or the early twenty tens,
we had like the real rise of trap music. We
had EDM really become EDM, you know what I mean.
(54:28):
We had I mean, for God's sakes, Taylor Swift was
releasing albums that sound like DM music now, you know
what I mean. And ed came out and people were like,
oh my god, this is a breath of fresh air
on popular radio. It's it's just a you know, guy
with a guitar and all that kind of stuff. And
I think that's what rose him to fame, is that
he had that kind of stuff that was cyclical like it.
(54:52):
It wasn't in the fold anymore, right, It wasn't a
part of popular music right then. And do I think
like part of it could be like, yeah, it was
influenced by older music absolutely. There's actually a quote in
here that says his producers called this song his van
Morrison song, right, like yeah, and so like I think
(55:13):
there is merit to going oh yeah, they're going to
be influenced by it. But you don't own a chord progression.
You don't own everything that is Ed Sheeran in that song,
he didn't cover your song. He made a completely new
song that happens to be in the same key, you
know what I mean. So that's what I'm saying is
like I think innately music is very cyclical, and the
(55:35):
more it's not a problem with music. I will say that,
and I personally believe that. And we did a poll
which Joe, I love to know your information about this,
but I'm personally I don't believe so because in general
this popular music copy too much from past music. And
sixty four percent of you said no, and thirty six
(55:56):
percent of you said yes, which I am more in
the camp of no. You know, it is there is
there is a couple of things that drive new sound
and new technology is one. You know, we're seeing that
with AI and all that kind of stuff. We're seeing
that with just stylistic tastes that come up. But also
there is a cyclical nature to music where it just
(56:16):
comes back through the fold. And I don't think artists
should be punished for that, because how do you learn
a craft without watching other craftsmen, without trying to be
another Bicasso.
Speaker 2 (56:30):
Well, and everybody's influenced at the end of the day,
everybody's been influenced by another artist. There's literally, I mean
there's millennia of artists that have come and died and
have made amazing work that we still somewhat recreate to
this day. And I mean, like, look at how many
(56:52):
fucking TV shows and movies rip off Shakespeare, right, But
everybody's like, oh, if you do that, then it's fine. Yeah,
like that means you're deep. But it's like, no, you're
just ripping off Shakespeare. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:04):
And at the end of the day, it's like it's
it's like weird, how cut and dry the legal system
is with songs sometimes, you know what I mean. We
can all like that's a great example. It's like we
can all look at the movie that's almost the exact
same plot, but we don't see all these lawsuits. That's like, hey,
this is a Sleepless in Seattle basically again we're suing you. Now, Yeah,
(57:25):
this is Dances with Wolves again, all right? Go after
James Cameron an avatar, you know what I mean, Like
we don't see that in other art stuff. So it's
weird that like songs are policed to a different level
than everything else. But I I you know, I think.
Speaker 2 (57:42):
You know, to be honest, one, I think the reason
that is is because lawsuits and people suing for it
have gotten away with it so so much more in
the music space, yeah, than in a visual space. I think,
like with visual medium you have more information to base
off of, and so like a lot more people have to,
(58:03):
like to be honest, when you're watching a TV show
and you're like, shit, shit looks weird. Like you don't
have to be a master filmmaker to know when something
looks off. Mm hmm, you know what I mean. And so,
like I think, like with music, when it when it
comes to the craft of music of like writing the song,
(58:23):
there is a little bit of like back end knowledge
or talent that you have to have that Like I
think a lot of everyday people struggle with visualizing, right
if that makes sense, Like how to write a song,
Like this is the way you know, these are the differences.
I yeah, And it's kind of just like this is
a good song, right exactly, and that's completely fine. I mean,
(58:45):
like at the same time that like maybe I get
a piece of furniture by some craftsman and then another
person tries to copy it, and then I show it
to the first craftsman and they go, ah, this isn't
even the freaking same you say, these planner joints not
even close, you know what I mean. I'd be like,
what are you telling talking about?
Speaker 1 (59:00):
You know what I mean? Like, but to them, they
can see that kind of stuff, and I think you're
completely right, especially with the family angle. I think there
is some times going oh yeah, for sure, and then
a musicologist gets to have his own check, being like,
oh yeah, they're similar. Let me point it out. It'll
be like thirty thousand dollars for me to point it out,
but I'll do it, you know what I mean. If
(59:20):
you win, I don't care. I still get a check
in the end. But at the end of the day,
I think or credit is the other thing. I think, Yeah,
it's it's a fight that's going to keep going on,
and not to be a red not to like I
hate red herring arguments, being like what about this, But like,
also I have listened to songs that are five times
(59:43):
more you know that. I go, oh, I've turned to
Joe in a car and been like, they're gonna get
sued for this, you know what I mean, And they
don't get sue.
Speaker 2 (59:54):
It's crazy. But it's also because I think a lot
of people are like, what's the harm?
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Right? And I think there's a respect to that culture
of this is influence or this is a kind of
a you know, maybe an encore or a tribute to
what we're influenced by, right, And I think there is
aligned with that. But I still think and I don't
think we ever will get there. But I especially think
in the amount of data and stuff that we have
(01:00:22):
now in the Internet age, we have no idea how
to make that determination. Yet it is just all whatever,
you know, whatever. The judge that's there and the court
that's there figures it out, and that's what's scary, and
determines precedent, and that's what's the job of the court
to uphold. Is go well, in this one case, this
could have giant legal ramifications beyond this one thing. I
(01:00:45):
could not imagine if he lost, what would happen, you
know what I mean? Because again, and I will literally
and mention this until I die on the show. Is
the Marvin Gaye board Lines case is one of the
most important copyright cases in the history of music copy
right and it's it all comes o again. I don't
think we would even have this lawsuit without that case,
(01:01:07):
and that's how it all builds up together.
Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Well, have you been listening to Marvin Gaye this week?
Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
I actually did listen to What's going On, like the
whole album funny enough. At work. I was like, right,
I was writing this down and I was like, fa
the Father and you know, just going through all that.
But yeah, I was listening to that was pretty good.
What about what about You?
Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
I've been listening. Girl House came out with a new EP.
It's called the Fourth EP. It is so masterfully done.
It's such a it's such a great piece of work.
Definitely recommend checking it out. They they're based in Nashville, actually,
but I think perhaps might be really relocating. I'm not sure,
(01:01:59):
but Nashville act. It's amazing. And then in May three
came out with new stuff which is crazy. Uh new
track Amnesia, It's pretty cool. Recommend checking it out.
Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
I had I was gonna tell you. I Uh, I
was listening to there's a new song that I think
you would like because I know your interests, and it
is called It's by Wolfman, which is.
Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Jack Volfpek's cousin.
Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Yeah literally literally not even dragging, but no, it's a
Jack from Wolfpec. Like that's his like solo project is Wolfman,
which I like because Wolfpec's kind of been like on
this like hiatus, like somebody put it so eloquently. At work,
they went, yeah, Wulfpeck just like randomly like now, just
like joins together, sells out Madison Square Garden and then
(01:02:51):
they leave and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what
they do. It's it's really weird, but that's kind of awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
I think they're gonna be like one of those bands
that it's like they're so famous but they're not.
Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
You know what, you know what, you know what. It
reminds me. I was thinking about this day.
Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
The band Boston.
Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
Boston is actually a good example, but they're they were
more mainstream. I almost want to say Oingo Boingo because
people know about Oingo Boingo people in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Yeah, but likes pretty massive.
Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Chicago big hits. I mean like so I don't know,
you know America.
Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
That's the one.
Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
Wolfman, which is like Jack, who's Jack Stratton, who's like
the leader of it. Has this new song I really like.
It's called I Can't Party. Yeah, and uh it's like
everyone's putting it in, like the fans commenting on it
put it in the best way. It is like Cake,
like the band Cake, but it's like modern Cake, which
(01:03:52):
I thought was really interesting. It's like a funkier Cake
because it's very monologue esc you know, and it's just
got like a bunch of humor jokes in it the
entire time that you know, dark, like that kind of
dry humor where they just leave the joke under the
table and it's just long pauses after saying a joke.
But uh, good quick, yeah, go listen to it the
YouTube video before. It's really good. It's so simplistic that
(01:04:15):
it's like great, you know what I mean, And I
really like it. I'm very excited to see if Wulfeck
will actually make some more stuff here in a second.
Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
So and I'm gonna listen to Cake right now.
Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
Dude, we have a fight at work at Cake, but.
Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
With Cake, you got it?
Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
No, no, no, so like they hate cake at work, Like
here's like some detractors, and then I got one guy
likes cake, So I'll just put on cake and I'll
just watched them all goo god damn it. And then
the funniest one and then the one guy going yeah.
And then the funniest one is there's one person that
doesn't know anything about cake, and so I'll play it
(01:04:56):
and I'll play like the weird covers they do, like
if you want a good example, look up I will survive. Yeah,
I look up, I will survive by cake. And I
remember they looked at me and they go, like the
puzzling look on their face, brow cross, all this stuff,
and they just look at me as the song starts playing,
and they just go, I don't like this. Thanks for
(01:05:18):
listening to the Busy tape You're All Things music, because
it's a media podcast. We sure do appreciate you out there.
If you want to go one step further for us,
who really helps out the show follow us at the
biz tape pretty much everywhere. That's probably the best way
of support the show as well sharing it to a friend,
you know, if you give it to one friend and
then give it to another friend, and he gives it
to two friends. We'll have like, what is that like
seven million people right there. Anyways, guys, we appreciate you,
(01:05:42):
Thank you so much for listening, and we hope to
see you next time.
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