September 13, 2023 • 51 mins
Currently Googlin’ Google’s Anti Trust Case and Taylor Swift at the VMAs….
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Round one for Google in the Legal.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
System and Taylor Swift at the VMA is you're listening
to the Biz Tape.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Welcome to the Biz Tape. You're all Things Music, business
and Media podcast. I'm your host Colin McKay with my
lovely co host Coast to Coast Joseph Waizleski. Coming in hot.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
What's up?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Okay, Well that was not as hot as I wanted?
But what are we gonna do?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I would say a lukewarm it's more more like a
lukewarm today.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
It was something.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, it was something. I don't know, Colin, what do
you think of the best intro we've had on the
pot has been? MANU really think back dig deep here?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Well, we're at like okay, so we're at at and
I know our account's wrong, which is funnier like like
my file name count, but it says here, I'm at
one hundred and forty seven of these, so I have
to think one hundred and forty seven hours of content
to get together for this answer. Hmmm, what was our
(01:23):
best intro? I think there was one time where I
just started dropping shit right at the beginning of the episode,
just literally like it was like a drink and something bad.
It was bad, I remember, I can't remember what it was.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Did you keep it in?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Oh yeah I did. It was something like I dropped
a pup, like a bowl or something. I can't remember
what it was. Oh my god, it was not good anyway, Joe,
what's been up with you?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Oh? You know, never ends, never sleeps.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Never? Should I break it that way? Should I?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Never?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I'm like Batman, speaking of I guess before we start,
we gotta get a little somber here for the moment. Yeah,
speaking of things that never end, this show will be
ending up here in October. Yes, I'm sorry to say.
I know, I know we we are legions of fans
(02:23):
across the world, but uh, yeah, no, I know a
couple of you guys that listen to the show all
the time, and we've had a lot of fans that
communicate with us. So I'm sorry to tell you your
daily music business or weekly music business fix will be
leaving uh for the foreseeable future. We you know, we
got Joe and I are just big boys now in
(02:44):
our career right now, so we're gonna have to take
maybe maybe we'll go to who knows, you know what
I mean? But like for the foreseeable future, the first
week of October will be our last episode, so we
all have to reflect, which Joe, it looks like somehow
we've math this again. Even though I said my numbers
(03:04):
are wrong, I believe that will be our one hundred
and fiftieth episode.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Hell yeah, right on top of.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
The deep dives I've done. Also, if you can't get
your fix enough, we still will be up. So if
you want to go back through previous stuff, I ever had.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
A one hundred and fifty episodes worth of content we.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Do and plus our deep dives and everything. But yeah,
I mean it's a it's been a ride. I mean,
Joe and I have talked about it. I'm sure the
last episode will do something for or just you know,
something stupid for. But like, yeah, I mean we're going
to be at one hundred and fifty episodes of this thing,
plus the bonus episodes we've done, so we've done quite
a bit. So as always, you know, I end the
(03:45):
show always saying thank you to everybody, but from the
front end, for once, thank you guys who have continued
listening to the show. And uh yeah, we're just going
to get right into it. Because you got to live
it up.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Why oh well, Colin, I would just like to say
thank you, but this is your fault. This is your fault.
We're want you to know if Joe, if Joe didn't
tell your auntie like we told you to, you didn't
tell your friends like we told you to. This this
(04:18):
is your fault.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
To be fair, Joe and I have historically been a
yang and a yang. So we're gonna good cop, bad
cop this situation.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
God, you're doing cop, You're something. I'm more like the
passive aggressive cop.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, basically, oh god. But yeah, so we're you know, pinon.
This is the end, but like, uh yeah, well we'll
figure out something. I'm sure the last episode is going
to be really under business. You know what. I will
say this, we got we got a week if you
want to give me and I'm Joe's gonna hate this.
If you want to give me hard questions for us
(04:56):
to try to answer, I will answer them on air
in the last episode. How about that?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Just difficult ques questions as in like not.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Like how are you like like yeah, like something like that,
like if you were like, what is the key to
success in the music business? In your opinion? Or like
something like can someone who's independent make it through the
whole thing? You know what I mean? Like I would
be like, I will try to give you analytical answers
to them. You can send it pretty much everywhere bis
(05:24):
Day podcast at gmail dot com or any of our
social media. I'll look out for it. That's my thing
to you. If you've had a for lack of a
better term, ball busting question you would like to ask
me and Joe, we we owe it to you if
you've been listening this long, so feel free to send
us any of your questions, and Joe and I will
go a little off hinge for the last episode as
a last hurrah, but for now still in the regular content.
(05:46):
So I guess let's just get to it. Joe, who
wants to go first? I just realized that.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I'd say you go first?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Okay, well first, speaking of also sad other things, Google
is still controlling our entire lives, and thankfully, though I
will say, the government actually seems to care about it.
So if you have not heard, Google is in an
antitrust lawsuit, and this is not a small lawsuit, as
(06:15):
quote the Justice Department in thirty eight states and territories.
We got Guam and Q you know what I mean,
We got everybody in there. On Tuesday, laid out how
Google has systematically wielded its power in online search to
cow competitors. This is extremely noteworthy if you don't know
about antitrust, as we have not really had one in
(06:38):
the modern era for a very very, very very long time.
Probably the most notable one was about twenty years ago,
and that was against Microsoft, and even at the time
they told Microsoft that they had to split in two
and then they ended up not having to split the
company into So we are trying to figure out as
a society is this just really worked right? Right? We're
(07:01):
trying to figure out as a society if antitrust is
something we care about, is this a new leaf that
we are really trying to pursue when it comes to
if corporations are you know, creating anti competitive environments that
nobody can actually live in basically, or are we just
gonna let it fly? Are we just gonna be like, oh,
(07:22):
that's just how it is now? Again, the last one
that happened, notably, almost nothing happened, just more fins and
settle out of court thanks to Microsoft. But let's let
me uh, for people who are not familiar anti trust
if you haven't heard this, because some of you may have,
which is kind of crazy, might not be old enough
(07:42):
to know that these are things because it hasn't happened
in twenty years. Basically, the Justice dot gov website literally
defines it as these laws prohibit anti competitive conduct and
mergers that deprive American consumers, tax bearers, and workers of
the benefits of competition. Historically came out of you know,
the nineteen tens and twenties and eighteen nineties where people
(08:05):
were going crazy with like, you know, the first billionaires
of all time, and nobody had any kind of workers
rights at that time. So even then, we've seen a
lot of arguments that big tech is getting into the
space of being able to take a shot from the
government and being like, hey, you guys need to figure
out how you're going to make yourself, you know, not
(08:27):
create a non competitive environment. So let's just get right
into it. Basically, over the next ten weeks, the government
in Google will present arguments and question dozens of witnesses,
digging into how the company came to power and whether
it's broke the law to maintain and magnify its dominance. Specifically,
(08:49):
the government is arguing that Google and its huge position
and power, has come to be the world search engine
and center for Internet ads, and uses its resources to
hurt and support competition. Quote. The case centers on the
arguments that Google reached with browser developers, smartphone manufacturers, and
wireless care carriers to use Google as the default search
(09:12):
engine on their products. Since the lawsuit was filed, more
than five million documents and depositions of more than one
hundred and fifty witnesses have been supported to the case. Wow.
One such document that was brought up describes that quote,
Google would not share revenue with Apple without default placement
on all its devices, and how it worked to ensure
(09:34):
that Apple couldn't redirect searches to its serie assistant. Wow.
And again, we all know what Apple's market share of
phones in the United States is. It's almost close to
eighty seventy percent, so not a small market to force
Google on at all. It has been brought up that
the government believes Google has also tried to hide evidence
(09:56):
quote from antitrust enforcers by including lawyers on conversations and
making them as subject to attorney client privilege and quote
also a message from Sundar Bachai, who's Google's chief executive,
asking for the chat history to be turned off in
one conversation, which I think is the funniest thing I've
(10:16):
ever seen in my life. Oh wait, never mind, here's
some of these next sentences, which is Google's arguments. Let's
get into those. Google again, this is still its opening.
Decided to go with a crazy opener that Joe was
gonna die at Google for some reason, decided to decided
to openly show in court, literally show how to do it,
(10:39):
like click by click, how easy it was to change
your default search.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Engine, like literally going like like you're trying to explain
to your parents how to do it, like now you
click here, Now you click here.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
You click here, Yeah you go yeah exactly. So literally
they trying to be like, it's easy, anyone can do it.
But when you're a default and a lot of people
don't know, you're the only option for a lot of
people that have grown up with it, you might not
know that that exists anyway. Google also said, which again
(11:15):
this is just pure comedy. People could Google or YouTube
if they didn't know how to do it, which do
we see the problem here because YouTube is also owned
by the parent company Alphabet. They also argue quote Apple
and Mozilla promote the other search engines great, and the
(11:39):
government was using evidence quote out of context, and I
was like, wow, what a blown away argument here. Anyway, Joe,
here's my question for you. I'm pretty sure you're pretty
on board with this too. You think Google is violating
antitrust with their market share and their power.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Likely yes, one hund.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Talked about another search engine, like no.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, exactly. I mean there's there's been well, I guess
search engines in general, right, and the grants like span
of human history, it's like they've only been around for
a very short amount of time. Well of course, but
I do think that it's like it's so crazy how pervasive,
(12:25):
Like the brand is in everyday society, Like it's used
in everyday conversation. It is the product people think of
when you turn your computer on. Pretty much, it's like
I'm going, I'm going straight to Google to find out
this thing that I have to find out.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
You know, it's not well, I think it's even worse.
It's like you're not even thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
It's just the e it's just there. Yeah, it's just
the Internet. It's the front face of the Internet, and
it is crazy. It's like insane to think about because
it's like you really haven't thought about it.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
There was a point where people were like, we've figured
out search engines. It's Yahoo dot com. No one has
ever talked about Yahoo unless you're like a seventh grade
science teacher. That never changed, you know what I mean,
Like those that's the pure Yahoo dot com fan base base.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I mean Yahoo Yahoo actively just like well, here's the
other aspect of this, right, it's we could put a
lot of blame also on Google for for having a
lot of antitrust, and I think they're definitely, in my view,
guilty of a lot of that stuff. But I also
think it comes from audience of the need, the want
(13:39):
to use Google over any other product, mostly because I
think honestly, Yahoo had a lot to do with that.
When when a lot of people were like the battle
between Yahoo and Google was like very intense. Oh yeah,
Google just showed a much stronger algorithm.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Well, and then Google show realized that they needed to
get the hell out of the way, and Yahoo went
the other way where they were like this will be
the center. Like the Yahoo's like I'm looking at it
right now, kind of just looks like social media now,
like it's like here's your news, here's your mail app,
here's the like sports game. And then Google's like there,
(14:20):
you don't want that, just what you just search what
you need to search. And that's why Google has supremacy.
But like the thing with Google, which is insane, is like, yeah,
you know, I would argue, especially if you listen to
the show, you probably say this about me, I am
annoyingly informed. Like that's how I describe myself annoyingly so
and I can maybe name three search engines right now
(14:43):
off the top of my head, which are Google, Yahoo,
and then if you're really annoying, Duck Duck go. So
like that's pretty much that's pretty much it, like, which
is kind of crazy because if you think about it,
it's like that's it, you know what I mean, Like
like I don't know what, Like that's what the.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Craziest Firefox Colin, Firefox.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
This is the other problem. This is the other problem,
is that we all confuse browsers and search engines.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yes, because Firefox is an I just did it not go.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Apparently because nobody has any other options here, dude, Like literally,
oh no, it is a private search engine too, but
like basically, yeah, everybody confuses that, Like everyone goes like
Google is and everything, like I download I have Edge
on my Microsoft computer, and then I download any other
fucking browser on Earth, and I'm like, yes, because that's
(15:41):
not a search engine. You know, everybody uses the search
engine and like it's it's you know, proliferation is like
one thing, right, like we could. I'm sure Google is
gonna make some argument that because they're just the best
at what they do, that's why everyone decides to use them, right,
But it I think it's been statistically shown is Google
(16:05):
will go out of their way to make other people
have such a worse time like trying to use any
other thing that's not Google, right, and like you know,
it's a really prime example. Who was looked up in
address on their iPhone before? Okay, every human being has ever,
(16:29):
Yeah no, like Safari, Like you're like, hey man, I'm
looking for this place, and you like Google, Let's say,
like not in maps. Like let's say I'm trying to
think like you're going to a doctor's office, right, and
you decide you're looking at doctors online and then you
find their thing and you go, oh, this one's got
like a five star review, let's click on it. What
(16:51):
does that do most of the time on an iPhone?
It doesn't load maps. It tries to load Google maps,
you know what I mean? They do stuff like this
all the time where they try to make everything default
a Google slash alphabet thing. Right. The only like, like
we talked about on the show, Google is making an
(17:12):
active effort because of TikTok to show video sources when
you search stuff. Guess what video sources come up? Not
Vimeo YouTube, right, And so they have a history of
just literally being like, we're gonna put ours first. Do
they have the right to because they made it and
it's also their service. Sure, but there's a point where,
(17:35):
and this is what antitrust is here to com you know,
combat literally is do these companies have too much control
on the market and therefore no one has any opportunity
to compete? Right, which, at the end of the day,
competition is what breeds innovation and also what breeds the
(17:55):
ability to have competitive pricing models and also just consumer choice.
For most people, there is no choice. It is just
Google because to them, that's the Internet and it may
have been proliferated by Google making these decisions, which is
insane to me. But so Joe, if you know, if
(18:15):
we're like maybe you know, like I'm just trying to
make like a Devil's Advocate argument, could we I mean,
it's gonna be hard to prove, which is the end
of the day, because anti trust lawsuits are the hardest
thing to prove, like ever, they are so hard to prove,
and which is I.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Think it's more of like even the enforcement of it too, right,
like because I mean even in the example of Microsoft,
it's like, you know, they were determined to have had
antitrust action and then literally then it was like nothing happened.
And then like a lot of the time, these monopoly
(18:57):
busting things that the government does takes a long time,
so like they'll have this big thing, but then it'll
be like years before they actually start busting it up.
And yeah, because actually think that happened with Microsoft, right
it was like.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Time to start with it, which makes sense because like,
at the end of the day, if you have something
that is a monopoly, right, you are the market, right,
So it's like if you.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Start just see that comes in has to like figure
out how the business is operated, because if it just
chops it off entirely, you'll destroy a market disrupts. Yeah,
it's disrupting the whole market.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Right, You'll destroy a market. And like, at the end
of the day, it's like the point of this is
to help quality for consumers, right, Like, is to help
quality and also for businesses to actually have a chance.
But literally one of the the at the end of
the giant equation, it's quality to consumers to have choices
and to also have you know, competitive pricing and innovation. Right.
(20:00):
So if you go into like Google and just go, hey,
we're gonna like go through everything and you know, we
need to get everything anti trust done in the next month,
you're gonna destroy Google, you know what I mean, Like
you are literally gonna you know, you can't unbreak so
many eggs if you will, Right, So, you want consumers
(20:24):
to still be able to use these things, right, Like
you don't want it to be like man that like
the internet will not work, right Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So it's I mean, like, what's what's even crazier is
like in the difference of Microsoft where it's like it's
software hardware but like the stuff you had would still work,
right if it's connected to the Internet. Google is like
the fundamental like usage of the Internet would be completely
(20:56):
changed without Google, because it's it's how everyone operates on
the Internet, even if you're signing up for like you know, Okay.
For instance, a lot of businesses run off of Gmail
that's hooked hire Google, that's hooked into YouTube, that's hooked
into their social media accounts, that's hooked into you know.
(21:19):
It's like this big web.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Which is why they the things that It's like Google's
too big to fail, right, and that's where these arguments
kind of come up from. But I also think it's
a dangerous ideology to have because it just stifles these
kind of conversations. At the same time, it's like, don't
go into Google, You're gonna mess everything up. It's like
you got to do it tactful.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Well, it just yeah, it just it means honestly that
there needs to be a change as well, because it
stales and stagnates the market, which is exactly what has happened, yeah,
with the web market and with Silicon Valley, I think.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And one thing that's interesting about this is like there
are many in the same way that you know, if
a particular piece of legislation makes it into Congress. There
are many people outside of the parties of Google and
the government that want to know what the end of
this case will be, right, And what I think is
(22:17):
particularly interesting about it is sometimes it feels kind of binary,
if you will, Like sometimes it feels like in us
versus them all the time. But I feel like, uniquely
in this case, Silicon Valley, specifically with the economics that
it's dealing with right now, might be a little in
favor of let's look at Google, right, it's like, why
(22:39):
don't you break up Google and let us just do
whatever the hell we want? Which is what you know,
if I was the CEO of a mega powerful company, right,
Because what have we talked about on this show all
the time? Like Joe has come on here and said
it all the time too, Like the economics are bad
right now for tech, Like they're just bad. All of
them are having layoffs. They've all said they overhired during
the pandemic. They all, you know, companies that have historically
(23:03):
just been growth companies are finally like being told we
need our money. You can't keep making losses over and over,
and guess what is a potential place to grow is
if they had to break up Google and maybe like
make Google separate or have some of its business kind
of be stagnated if you will in some way, that's
(23:26):
a potential growth place, you know what I mean. Like
if you're already a technology company, it's like, well, maybe
we can make some stuff, which is at the end
of the day, the point of antitrust.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Or at least's true.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Now we got to get into that too. It's like
I've been hidden on Google as a search engine, but
like the ad space of Google is arguably even more important, right,
because this is what's given Google the power it has
basically other than the SEO the search engine optimization, which
(24:01):
for many years we've been using that term, but really
we just met Google optimization, right. Like the thing is
is that at the end of the day, Google has
a giant ad business that is unlike any other SEO
that we can see, you know what I mean, Like,
there is no other business like this, right, And it's very, very,
(24:24):
very similar to the arguments with Ticketmaster, where it's like,
you know, it's like, well, if you don't help Google,
maybe you won't show up in the first couple results,
and ninety nine point ninety percent of people don't go
to the second page. Or if you don't have Google, uh,
maybe your ads are going to be a little bit
more expensive. Since we do all the ads on YouTube,
(24:44):
we do all the ads on a bunch of different
websites through our web services and stuff. So this is
where these millions of documents start going, is you have
to implicitly prove that they've been using this power they
have in the marketplace to flex on these businesses basically,
And that's what's one of the hardest things is because
(25:05):
a lot of it's interpretive. I mean like literally, if
you know, Joe and I were like, ironically, as we
talked about ending the show of Joe and I were like,
we are going to crush all podcasts competition. It is
over other podcasts, right, it is uh, basically like we
can say that, right, and you know, to one person
(25:26):
they're going to be like, well, you know, they were
just trying to motivate each other, and then somebody else
is going, no, this was actually their plan just to
crush other competition, aka being violation of the law. Right.
So that's where that's why they need this many documents
and all these witnesses is because they have to prove
patterns a lot with this too. And especially when it
(25:47):
comes to like corporate talk, what a corporate people all
talk about they want more revenue, they want higher quality,
all this kind of stuff. That's fine, that can be
regular corporate talk. But when they literally talk about using
their position to stifle others, that's where you get in
a gray area where you're like, is this like we
want to provide better quality and products, healthy economic competition,
(26:10):
or is this you're a monopoly? This is how your
business works anyway, Joe, what else? What do you think
about this?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah? I feel like it's just such a complicated structure
when it comes to how and like we're kind of
getting ahead of ourselves too, of like dismantling some of
this thing with Google. I truly don't see how anybody
could like go into this and get out of it,
(26:41):
being like Google doesn't isn't a monopoly because it's the
definition of a monopoly. It's like it's taken over multiple
industries outside of the search engine space, and so it's
like when it's like talking about you know, like how
(27:01):
are we going to dismantle some of this stuff. It's
kind of hard because it's like we have to get
there first. But I do think that in general, it's
it's it's high, it's it's way more complicated than I
feel like other businesses are, mostly because I don't think
like I guess you could kind of compare to the
(27:23):
automobile industry, where it was like, at least for American lifestyles,
it was very pervasive in every home and how you
would get to work, and like it's impacting your every day.
But this is impacting not only like you getting to work.
It's like impacting you get you getting to work, you
(27:45):
accessing your work files, you your right to like person,
pretty much your right to privacy. You're uh, it's getting
into entertainment, it's getting into security of everything because it
(28:06):
passes to Google.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
So it's like and we're gonna have to see it's
in these documents they say that in black and white
or in quiet heavily, you know, like, yeah, these services
could be used against you.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Mm hmm. Yeah. It's just it's pretty tough. I don't
know if if it's even possible to list the amount
of illegal things that this company has done. When it
comes to monopoly law, it's probably pretty it's a pretty
(28:42):
long list.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And at the same time, too.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
God, is it is this the you know, new leaf
for us? You know what I mean? Is this the
new leaf for monopoly law?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yeah? It's like what is what is what is a
monopoly nowadays? Too? Like what it's kind of even that
of like what does a new monopoly look like? It's
not as it's not as like Robert Baron esque as
it was in like the twenties and thirties, you know,
where these people are like basically flexing their wealth all
(29:17):
the time right in the public eye all the time. Well,
people are much more subtle. Well yeah, but like there's
like a difference between rich celebrity and rich.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
But I also think like, at the same time, the
ridiculousness of us, like, let's saying, looking at like a
a he you know, a Henry Ford like Ford Motor Company,
or like a Rockefeller or something now and being like
that was insane. That was clearly bad. And then you know,
the worst fear is that in like ten to twenty years,
(29:50):
we don't do anything, and then we all still go
that was really bad, and they're still doing it, you
know what I mean. So God, it's a it's gonna
be a developing situation. It's just the start, and like
this is all follow through, like if we have any choice.
I mean, it seems that we've gotten to this step first,
(30:12):
we have that. And by the way, this is not
the only lawsuit. There are multiple state lawsuits for different things,
so it's not just all inged on this case. But
this is the biggest one with the Justice Department in
the thirty eight states and the territories. That is by
far the biggest one and is a antitrust specifically. It's
not just hey, a big fine. So that's why I'm
(30:34):
talking about this one. But it seems that many are
asking this question and we are just the beginning of it,
and it's all fall through. Like we've made it to
the cases. It seems like they're well researched. We'll see
if people can give good arguments for it. And I
don't know if Google has a better argument than being
(30:54):
like this is how you change your browser. I'll let's
hear it. But basically, if we get that far, then
we got to get to the judge, which this is
not determined by jury. This is determined by judge, So
we got to see what that person thinks about it.
Then we got to see what the sentence they think
about it is. Then we got to see how that
(31:15):
sentence is either fought or you know, agreed to or whatever.
Then we got to see how that plays out and
is actually executed. So there's a bunch of different things
in here, and we're just in the first step. But
to be honest, this is the first step we've seen
of something like this in over twenty years, so it's
extremely notable. All right, Joe, what about you? What we
(31:42):
got on the on the docket.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
On the docket, well, we have the VMA's that happened
last night.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I'm gonna let you finish. But yeah, that's anytime thinking of.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Speaking of this article that I found is actually about
Taylor Swift. Because if you've been I'm really glad ITTI yeah, no,
But if you've if you've been online at all times,
you've seen just countless clips I'm sure of Taylor Swift
(32:17):
dancing at the VMA's And maybe you're like me, maybe
you've been sitting there and being like, hmm, there's a
lot of clips of Taylor Swift dancing to a lot
of different songs throughout the VMA performances that are just
out and it's kind of like, why why why do
(32:38):
they keep cutting to her? Essentially? Right, Well, it's because
they had a whole camera operator who was tasked with
filming her for the entire duration of the twenty twenty
three MTV video Music Words and So, according to Variety, Swift,
who was sat in the front row beside her publicist
(33:00):
Tree Pain and Ice Spice for much of the event,
was seen by Variety on Tuesday Night continuously filmed by
a cameraman. No other artist was being filmed in the
same manner.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Do you think that's high stress or low stress on
the cameraman.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I actually think it's probably very high stress, because that's honestly,
there's a video. There's like a tweet that like shows
the camera guy, and it's like it's pretty intense. The
dude's like right next to them the whole time, standing
and it's very obvious that she's the primary focus for
(33:40):
honestly the whole show. It makes sense too, right, because
she took home like the most VMA's and she's I
don't know, I mean, I feel like at the VMA's
it's always focused on Taylor because like whether it be
the Kanye West controversy or in other years it Taylor
always takes home a lot of awards from the ceremony
(34:03):
and so it's like a big high like press event.
And it's also in years past, the things that have
gone viral is Taylor Swift dancing and lip syncing to
people on stage right and enjoying the performances, and that
is it's become kind of like the whole spiel of
(34:26):
the VMAs. But what's so crazy is it kind of
shows the power that she has in her branding to
where they are structuring the like how they are shooting
the show based on her and she's not even on stage.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
It's true, Yeah, I mean, which is same. I'm sure
you know there is an every award show we put
the more famous people up front, right you know what
I mean? Like that makes sense, right because then they'll
be yeah, in the shots when we we do them.
We're not having the cameraman only do that. But like, uh,
(35:07):
it's kind of like you're saying it, it feels like
something that wouldn't have, you know, be that irregular. Like
you feel like this must have happened before. I guarantee
you it's very irregular. Like it is, her star power
is immaculate compared to everything else. And I think one
of the things that you know, maybe we're leaving out
on this story is there's just the size of the VMAs,
(35:30):
Like like, yeah, it's a it's a big show, you
know what I mean. But it's like, guys, we can't
get people to give a crap about the Grammys, so
every other award show is kind of like struggling anyway.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So like, yeah, it's it's like why that's why having
an online presence is so important to the VMA's. It's
because you know, the things that get the views over
the VMA's is not the actual event itself. It is
the clips that are all thrown onto TikTok later, right,
that people view millions of times and then they're like, oh,
(36:07):
look it's the VMA brand. Oh look it's these other
brands partnered with VMA's. That's like what the goal is
right for it? And eventually, I'm sure it's to get
people to come back to the show itself, but it's
it's never as of how media is currently going, it
will never go that way because nobody is buying cable
(36:32):
subscriptions and nobody is watching MTV on the regular, and yeh, it's.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Just not it's it's not selling subscriptions, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Like, yeah, it's not. It's not it's not getting people
to tune in, right, Like it is getting people to
pay attention online, which is the biggest goal I think
for them, and also to stream it too, right. Streaming
has become the the new game for that. But it
is it is kind of strange, how like I just
(37:05):
feel like this is it's kind of in a weird way.
It's kind of like, I mean, show businesses show business, right,
whether it be like comedy, whatever, sometimes gets people. Yeah,
sometimes wacky things gets people to pay attention. And that's
(37:26):
been the way it's worked since forever. But now it's
like it's it's even more the case of like this
is people aren't watching this to watch the performances. They're
watching to see Taylor's reaction to the performances. It feels
very I kind of imagine it.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
It's like a black mirror thing.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
I view it as like this is her birthday party
and we're all like the proud parents watch her eye
all the surprise.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Well, Joe knows I am this kind of person. It's like,
it's kind of like what I do when I show
people movies and I just stare at them half the
time in the movie, and I'm just like, you know,
big like joker esque smile looking at them, being like
what we think of that scene? You know what I mean? Like,
that's what it feels like to me, is like we're
all apparently doing this for Taylor Swift. It's like, you know,
(38:26):
I didn't follow the VMA's that much. The one thing
I did see was Taylor Swift, though, and I thought
she had a more major part of the show. So clearly, like,
you know, the advertising here is working like I did not.
I thought she I you know, I thought she like
performed or something like. That's what I thought happened. Because
(38:47):
of all the change.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
She accepted, she she led this year's vm A nominations
with eight nods, including Video of the Year and Artists
of the Year, and she already scored two of the
VMA signature moon Man's statues for Best Pop. And so
according to like, it is really sick looking, it is
(39:09):
so cool and it kind of makes it. It's like, damn,
why doesn't the Grammy, Like, look, the.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Grammy's one is historic though, Like it's just like.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
It's historic, it's classy. I guess it's kind of a thing, right,
It's not like I will say the MTV the MTV
award looks it looks sick, but they continue saying. The
singer songwriter accepted the first v MA of the evening
for Best Pop Music Video from in Sync, who reunited
on stage at the ceremony.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yeah, that was just under the rat like I saw
more about than.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
In Yeah, nobody, nobody cared. Nobody was freaking out over that.
But she said, quote, I'm not doing well pivoting from
this to this, Uh, from being an in Sync fan
to accepting an award. Swift said, like I had your
in Sync dolls, which I'd like to say, but I
(40:03):
don't think she's pivoting anymore. I feel like she's like
pretty in the award accepting business at this point.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Right.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
I think she has like a closet full of awards.
But it is still cool, and I do think it's
like it is just so crazy that like I think
that like in Sync reuniting Honestly, like five years ago
(40:30):
would have been bigger news.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah, I mean I think that was the last thing
it like kind of did. But it was just like
Taylor Swift, It's just there's there's so many eyes, you
know what I mean, Like there's just so many eyes,
like and I mean that like in the sense of
there's so many people, but there's just so much like
that can come through the media stream and Taylor's it
(40:53):
for the whole year has been it, right, Like I
think obviously that you know, I do have to mention.
I mean, I'm I'm you know, I'm proud for Taylor.
You know, I'm just sorry. I keep want to go
on that speech, but like I am proud for Taylor,
but like you I'm proud to see her thriving, right,
you know what I mean, She's she's worked incredibly hard
(41:15):
this year and played all these different places and all
this kind of stuff, and you know, I think that's great.
But like at the same time, it feels, you know,
kind of if I was about to win an award, right,
and like they couldn't get a camera on me or
a good angle, and I knew that the cameraman it's
(41:37):
just because he has to stay on Taylor Swift listening
to my speech, and I like, you know what I mean, Like,
that's that's what I feel bad. I hope that's not
to the detriment of these other people that are getting
the award, But I almost feel like that's kind of
like they that MTV kind of understands. It's like they
don't care about the awards, right, They just care about
(41:59):
the content right half the time. And like, I know
somebody's gonna be like they care about the awards, and
I'm like, yes, they do. But like that's what I'm
saying is that I think we've just had this fall
from grace when it comes to these kinds of awards again,
like not to be like the Grammys of the Grammys,
but it was like, if you don't know any award
shows about music, you know what the Grammys are, right,
(42:19):
Like that's the only one you would know right out
of all them. So it's like it to me, I
feel like the awards have fallen off so much that
it's like we have to kind of go into that thing,
and I think that it's kind of been overdue. I mean,
there's a reason that the Grammys are mostly watched if
you watch them for the performances and not like who won, right,
(42:42):
but like it's uh, I just feel bad if if
this kind of coverage is you know, ghosh and not
you know, heavily monitored to not take away from some
of these people that are learning, you know what I mean.
I just don't want some situation, especially with my experience
(43:03):
with production, where it's like we don't have enough resources
to have everyone miked and everyone whatever, and it's like
you could have put this speech to this person that
just won that maybe this is the beginning of their
career on air, or we could show they were like
twelve times throughout the program like laughing, you know what
I mean. Like that's that's the only thing I worry
about with this man. Like it's just like it's not
(43:26):
her fault. It can't be her fault, like's a holding
the camera right, It's just it's programming. Right at the
end of the day, it's MTV's like decision to do this.
So I really hope that there's not like somebody, especially
with the MTV Music Awards, Like I just you know,
I was kind of crapping on it for a second.
But at the same time, it's like the MTV Music
Awards at one time were like very like almost like
(43:50):
they were seen at the time in the eighties as
almost coming to flourish of being like do we even
need the Grammys anymore? You know what I mean. It's like, yeah,
we got this new one. Right. They were one of.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
The first ones. They knew. Yeah, they were.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
One of the first ones to actually go against the Grammys,
like to have an ecosystem of award shows for music, right.
So it's just like.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
It's well, and the thing about the VMA is it's
like so it was the thing that distinguished the Grammys
was the on stage performances, right, that was like the
big yeah, and it was like to another level.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Which I will give, which I think would be really cool,
which is kind of where my cards lie. As some
of you have heard from our Grammy deep dies. Is
question for the Grammys is always is it for the
people or is it for the industry, because those are
two different programs, right, And I've always felt it would
be really cool if MTV, especially since MTV is nowhere
(44:47):
close to the proximity and you know, like of of
being as big as a Grammys, but also just not
how big they used to be. You know, the those
awards really do celebrate a lot of visual musical material, right,
and I feel like they made that even more industry
heavy in terms of like catering to like industry people
(45:07):
and being like, oh, yeah, you could win an award
in this. It's like, you know, the best music director,
you know, music video director, and we'll put you on
TV you know, or something like that, or record it
of you speech. I'd be like, that'd be really cool.
I just hope that like maybe some ideas like that
aren't crushed. And so it's like here's Taylor laughing, you
know what I mean, But well we'll just see, man.
(45:29):
I mean again, I it's not her problem. She's already
had a problem with her problems with MTV, you know
what I mean. Like thankfully now it seems like they're
really giving her a due diligence. But is it too much?
That's my question?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
You know, Well, what music have you been listening.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
To when there's some is down? I don't know why
I've had that really must sat in town, no close,
but I've been listening to Ronnie millsap More, who's like
probably one of my favorite older kind of it's like
one of the few country people that, like, I don't
know why it rides me. Any person that's like, we're
(46:13):
gonna listen to the good old Country, I'm like, all right, okay,
you know what I mean. Like it's always like I mean,
if they're like semi younger, it'll be like good old
Country and they'll just play like Tim McGraw from like
two thousand and two, and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's real.
And then like then it gets like a scary territory
where it's like, what are you gonna talk to me
about next? Good old Boy? And so it's like, uh,
(46:36):
this is one that I feel like. It's like he's
just the music's held up really well. And Ronnie Millsap
has a good song which is one of his biggest songs.
We're just called what goes On when the Sun Goes
Down and only the lovers know what goes on when
the Sun goes down. But it's just a very catchy tune.
I really enjoy it. I've always enjoyed Ronny Millsap also
been listening to one of Joe's favorites. I know, even
(46:58):
though it's not basically on streaming, No I've talked about
this before, but uh, Breakfast in America by Supertram. Because
I was actually joking with somebody the other day that
all the bands of the late seventies that were like
rock and roll and like a little bit proggy all
fought each other to the death and have legal battles.
Super Tram. I'm not joking. It's all in that period,
(47:21):
super Tram, Journey. What's the other one? Sticks?
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (47:26):
What was the other one? I thought of. There's like
four or five bands I was listing at work the
other day where I was like, they're all late rock
bands that are like two guys that are the main songwriter.
One guy is a very different vision than the other guy.
They get in a giant fight with each other, it
ends the band, and then ten years later they're fighting
about who wrote each song right, and so like they're
(47:48):
all like it's weird. It like really popped up in
those last like years of the seventies in the early eighties,
and it was like for five years, it was like
bands only in that five year period had this. So
I don't know what that is, but somebody take that
information and do what you will. Joe, what have you
been listening to.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
I've been listening to an artist called Johnny Dawson and
he has a song called Counterclockwise, which is really it's
really a good song. It's kind of like it's it's
very emo, but it's I don't know, it's it's it's
really interesting. He doesn't have a ton of monthlies or anything,
so definitely check him out, support him if you are able.
(48:30):
I've also been listening to, and I mentioned this last
episode UH a project called a Beacon School. I actually
listened to the EP today and it's just like, I
don't know if this guy is just like crafting these
songs based on my psyche right as like a music listener,
(48:51):
but like everything is like it's so niche. It's like
niche sounds that I really enjoy that he puts into
each song that I'm just like no other person would
fucking you know, like listen to this, you know, but
like I am like eating this up right now, and
(49:13):
it's really cool. It's kind of like it's like lo
fi but musically so interesting, So definitely check that out.
I've also been listening to the new Barry single called Races.
It's very, very sick. It's got that classic Barry Keys sound,
(49:33):
you know, the like really like chuggy kind of Worldlitzer
kind of vibe. That's always it's always a fun, fun thing.
And then I've been listening to every single single that
Angie McMahon has been releasing, the most recent being Fireball Whiskey,
(49:56):
which is I feel like a relatable song, know.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Really hits.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
We've all had a Fireball Whiskey night.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Yeah, really just really just hitch in the gut like Fireball. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
Our new sponsor, Fireball, that would be so end. They
really jumped in at the end of the.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Right, at the end of the show to get one sponsor. Okay,
I would say this, if you would like to sponsor
the show for the next three episodes, we are open
where we could take a Yeah, just God, just drop
a fin God. Yeah again, I'll leave this. Give me
some hard questions, we'll answer it. I'm about it. Let's
(50:43):
do it.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Yeah, we'll have a little therapy session.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Not good answers.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
We could be like Smash with like all of their content.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
We could be like Smash. That's anyway if there's one
way to remember our show, we could be like Smash.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
We could be like Smash in one day. You can't do.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Hi. Thanks for listening to The Biz Tay for all
Things music business podcasts. We appreciate you. How creepy can
I get? Anyway? We have our socials. I'm looking for
questions for the last show. Give me something super hard abstract?
Our label is even worth it? Can you survive as
an Indian artist?
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Now?
Speaker 1 (51:24):
How do you make money in touring? Anything? We'll take
it and as always, guys, thank you so much. We'll
see you next time.
Round one for Google in the Legal.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
System and Taylor Swift at the VMA is you're listening
to the Biz Tape.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Welcome to the Biz Tape. You're all Things Music, business
and Media podcast. I'm your host Colin McKay with my
lovely co host Coast to Coast Joseph Waizleski. Coming in hot.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
What's up?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Okay, Well that was not as hot as I wanted?
But what are we gonna do?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I would say a lukewarm it's more more like a
lukewarm today.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
It was something.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, it was something. I don't know, Colin, what do
you think of the best intro we've had on the
pot has been? MANU really think back dig deep here?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Well, we're at like okay, so we're at at and
I know our account's wrong, which is funnier like like
my file name count, but it says here, I'm at
one hundred and forty seven of these, so I have
to think one hundred and forty seven hours of content
to get together for this answer. Hmmm, what was our
(01:23):
best intro? I think there was one time where I
just started dropping shit right at the beginning of the episode,
just literally like it was like a drink and something bad.
It was bad, I remember, I can't remember what it was.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Did you keep it in?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Oh yeah I did. It was something like I dropped
a pup, like a bowl or something. I can't remember
what it was. Oh my god, it was not good anyway, Joe,
what's been up with you?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Oh? You know, never ends, never sleeps.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Never? Should I break it that way? Should I?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Never?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I'm like Batman, speaking of I guess before we start,
we gotta get a little somber here for the moment. Yeah,
speaking of things that never end, this show will be
ending up here in October. Yes, I'm sorry to say.
I know, I know we we are legions of fans
(02:23):
across the world, but uh, yeah, no, I know a
couple of you guys that listen to the show all
the time, and we've had a lot of fans that
communicate with us. So I'm sorry to tell you your
daily music business or weekly music business fix will be
leaving uh for the foreseeable future. We you know, we
got Joe and I are just big boys now in
(02:44):
our career right now, so we're gonna have to take
maybe maybe we'll go to who knows, you know what
I mean? But like for the foreseeable future, the first
week of October will be our last episode, so we
all have to reflect, which Joe, it looks like somehow
we've math this again. Even though I said my numbers
(03:04):
are wrong, I believe that will be our one hundred
and fiftieth episode.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Hell yeah, right on top of.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
The deep dives I've done. Also, if you can't get
your fix enough, we still will be up. So if
you want to go back through previous stuff, I ever had.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
A one hundred and fifty episodes worth of content we.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Do and plus our deep dives and everything. But yeah,
I mean it's a it's been a ride. I mean,
Joe and I have talked about it. I'm sure the
last episode will do something for or just you know,
something stupid for. But like, yeah, I mean we're going
to be at one hundred and fifty episodes of this thing,
plus the bonus episodes we've done, so we've done quite
a bit. So as always, you know, I end the
(03:45):
show always saying thank you to everybody, but from the
front end, for once, thank you guys who have continued
listening to the show. And uh yeah, we're just going
to get right into it. Because you got to live
it up.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Why oh well, Colin, I would just like to say
thank you, but this is your fault. This is your fault.
We're want you to know if Joe, if Joe didn't
tell your auntie like we told you to, you didn't
tell your friends like we told you to. This this
(04:18):
is your fault.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
To be fair, Joe and I have historically been a
yang and a yang. So we're gonna good cop, bad
cop this situation.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
God, you're doing cop, You're something. I'm more like the
passive aggressive cop.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, basically, oh god. But yeah, so we're you know, pinon.
This is the end, but like, uh yeah, well we'll
figure out something. I'm sure the last episode is going
to be really under business. You know what. I will
say this, we got we got a week if you
want to give me and I'm Joe's gonna hate this.
If you want to give me hard questions for us
(04:56):
to try to answer, I will answer them on air
in the last episode. How about that?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Just difficult ques questions as in like not.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Like how are you like like yeah, like something like that,
like if you were like, what is the key to
success in the music business? In your opinion? Or like
something like can someone who's independent make it through the
whole thing? You know what I mean? Like I would
be like, I will try to give you analytical answers
to them. You can send it pretty much everywhere bis
(05:24):
Day podcast at gmail dot com or any of our
social media. I'll look out for it. That's my thing
to you. If you've had a for lack of a
better term, ball busting question you would like to ask
me and Joe, we we owe it to you if
you've been listening this long, so feel free to send
us any of your questions, and Joe and I will
go a little off hinge for the last episode as
a last hurrah, but for now still in the regular content.
(05:46):
So I guess let's just get to it. Joe, who
wants to go first? I just realized that.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I'd say you go first?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Okay, well first, speaking of also sad other things, Google
is still controlling our entire lives, and thankfully, though I
will say, the government actually seems to care about it.
So if you have not heard, Google is in an
antitrust lawsuit, and this is not a small lawsuit, as
(06:15):
quote the Justice Department in thirty eight states and territories.
We got Guam and Q you know what I mean,
We got everybody in there. On Tuesday, laid out how
Google has systematically wielded its power in online search to
cow competitors. This is extremely noteworthy if you don't know
about antitrust, as we have not really had one in
(06:38):
the modern era for a very very, very very long time.
Probably the most notable one was about twenty years ago,
and that was against Microsoft, and even at the time
they told Microsoft that they had to split in two
and then they ended up not having to split the
company into So we are trying to figure out as
a society is this just really worked right? Right? We're
(07:01):
trying to figure out as a society if antitrust is
something we care about, is this a new leaf that
we are really trying to pursue when it comes to
if corporations are you know, creating anti competitive environments that
nobody can actually live in basically, or are we just
gonna let it fly? Are we just gonna be like, oh,
(07:22):
that's just how it is now? Again, the last one
that happened, notably, almost nothing happened, just more fins and
settle out of court thanks to Microsoft. But let's let
me uh, for people who are not familiar anti trust
if you haven't heard this, because some of you may have,
which is kind of crazy, might not be old enough
(07:42):
to know that these are things because it hasn't happened
in twenty years. Basically, the Justice dot gov website literally
defines it as these laws prohibit anti competitive conduct and
mergers that deprive American consumers, tax bearers, and workers of
the benefits of competition. Historically came out of you know,
the nineteen tens and twenties and eighteen nineties where people
(08:05):
were going crazy with like, you know, the first billionaires
of all time, and nobody had any kind of workers
rights at that time. So even then, we've seen a
lot of arguments that big tech is getting into the
space of being able to take a shot from the
government and being like, hey, you guys need to figure
out how you're going to make yourself, you know, not
(08:27):
create a non competitive environment. So let's just get right
into it. Basically, over the next ten weeks, the government
in Google will present arguments and question dozens of witnesses,
digging into how the company came to power and whether
it's broke the law to maintain and magnify its dominance. Specifically,
(08:49):
the government is arguing that Google and its huge position
and power, has come to be the world search engine
and center for Internet ads, and uses its resources to
hurt and support competition. Quote. The case centers on the
arguments that Google reached with browser developers, smartphone manufacturers, and
wireless care carriers to use Google as the default search
(09:12):
engine on their products. Since the lawsuit was filed, more
than five million documents and depositions of more than one
hundred and fifty witnesses have been supported to the case. Wow.
One such document that was brought up describes that quote,
Google would not share revenue with Apple without default placement
on all its devices, and how it worked to ensure
(09:34):
that Apple couldn't redirect searches to its serie assistant. Wow.
And again, we all know what Apple's market share of
phones in the United States is. It's almost close to
eighty seventy percent, so not a small market to force
Google on at all. It has been brought up that
the government believes Google has also tried to hide evidence
(09:56):
quote from antitrust enforcers by including lawyers on conversations and
making them as subject to attorney client privilege and quote
also a message from Sundar Bachai, who's Google's chief executive,
asking for the chat history to be turned off in
one conversation, which I think is the funniest thing I've
(10:16):
ever seen in my life. Oh wait, never mind, here's
some of these next sentences, which is Google's arguments. Let's
get into those. Google again, this is still its opening.
Decided to go with a crazy opener that Joe was
gonna die at Google for some reason, decided to decided
to openly show in court, literally show how to do it,
(10:39):
like click by click, how easy it was to change
your default search.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Engine, like literally going like like you're trying to explain
to your parents how to do it, like now you
click here, Now you click here.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
You click here, Yeah you go yeah exactly. So literally
they trying to be like, it's easy, anyone can do it.
But when you're a default and a lot of people
don't know, you're the only option for a lot of
people that have grown up with it, you might not
know that that exists anyway. Google also said, which again
(11:15):
this is just pure comedy. People could Google or YouTube
if they didn't know how to do it, which do
we see the problem here because YouTube is also owned
by the parent company Alphabet. They also argue quote Apple
and Mozilla promote the other search engines great, and the
(11:39):
government was using evidence quote out of context, and I
was like, wow, what a blown away argument here. Anyway, Joe,
here's my question for you. I'm pretty sure you're pretty
on board with this too. You think Google is violating
antitrust with their market share and their power.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Likely yes, one hund.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Talked about another search engine, like no.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, exactly. I mean there's there's been well, I guess
search engines in general, right, and the grants like span
of human history, it's like they've only been around for
a very short amount of time. Well of course, but
I do think that it's like it's so crazy how pervasive,
(12:25):
Like the brand is in everyday society, Like it's used
in everyday conversation. It is the product people think of
when you turn your computer on. Pretty much, it's like
I'm going, I'm going straight to Google to find out
this thing that I have to find out.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
You know, it's not well, I think it's even worse.
It's like you're not even thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
It's just the e it's just there. Yeah, it's just
the Internet. It's the front face of the Internet, and
it is crazy. It's like insane to think about because
it's like you really haven't thought about it.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
There was a point where people were like, we've figured
out search engines. It's Yahoo dot com. No one has
ever talked about Yahoo unless you're like a seventh grade
science teacher. That never changed, you know what I mean,
Like those that's the pure Yahoo dot com fan base base.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I mean Yahoo Yahoo actively just like well, here's the
other aspect of this, right, it's we could put a
lot of blame also on Google for for having a
lot of antitrust, and I think they're definitely, in my view,
guilty of a lot of that stuff. But I also
think it comes from audience of the need, the want
(13:39):
to use Google over any other product, mostly because I
think honestly, Yahoo had a lot to do with that.
When when a lot of people were like the battle
between Yahoo and Google was like very intense. Oh yeah,
Google just showed a much stronger algorithm.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Well, and then Google show realized that they needed to
get the hell out of the way, and Yahoo went
the other way where they were like this will be
the center. Like the Yahoo's like I'm looking at it
right now, kind of just looks like social media now,
like it's like here's your news, here's your mail app,
here's the like sports game. And then Google's like there,
(14:20):
you don't want that, just what you just search what
you need to search. And that's why Google has supremacy.
But like the thing with Google, which is insane, is like, yeah,
you know, I would argue, especially if you listen to
the show, you probably say this about me, I am
annoyingly informed. Like that's how I describe myself annoyingly so
and I can maybe name three search engines right now
(14:43):
off the top of my head, which are Google, Yahoo,
and then if you're really annoying, Duck Duck go. So
like that's pretty much that's pretty much it, like, which
is kind of crazy because if you think about it,
it's like that's it, you know what I mean, Like
like I don't know what, Like that's what the.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Craziest Firefox Colin, Firefox.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
This is the other problem. This is the other problem,
is that we all confuse browsers and search engines.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yes, because Firefox is an I just did it not go.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Apparently because nobody has any other options here, dude, Like literally,
oh no, it is a private search engine too, but
like basically, yeah, everybody confuses that, Like everyone goes like
Google is and everything, like I download I have Edge
on my Microsoft computer, and then I download any other
fucking browser on Earth, and I'm like, yes, because that's
(15:41):
not a search engine. You know, everybody uses the search
engine and like it's it's you know, proliferation is like
one thing, right, like we could. I'm sure Google is
gonna make some argument that because they're just the best
at what they do, that's why everyone decides to use them, right,
But it I think it's been statistically shown is Google
(16:05):
will go out of their way to make other people
have such a worse time like trying to use any
other thing that's not Google, right, and like you know,
it's a really prime example. Who was looked up in
address on their iPhone before? Okay, every human being has ever,
(16:29):
Yeah no, like Safari, Like you're like, hey man, I'm
looking for this place, and you like Google, Let's say,
like not in maps. Like let's say I'm trying to
think like you're going to a doctor's office, right, and
you decide you're looking at doctors online and then you
find their thing and you go, oh, this one's got
like a five star review, let's click on it. What
(16:51):
does that do most of the time on an iPhone?
It doesn't load maps. It tries to load Google maps,
you know what I mean? They do stuff like this
all the time where they try to make everything default
a Google slash alphabet thing. Right. The only like, like
we talked about on the show, Google is making an
(17:12):
active effort because of TikTok to show video sources when
you search stuff. Guess what video sources come up? Not
Vimeo YouTube, right, And so they have a history of
just literally being like, we're gonna put ours first. Do
they have the right to because they made it and
it's also their service. Sure, but there's a point where,
(17:35):
and this is what antitrust is here to com you know,
combat literally is do these companies have too much control
on the market and therefore no one has any opportunity
to compete? Right, which, at the end of the day,
competition is what breeds innovation and also what breeds the
(17:55):
ability to have competitive pricing models and also just consumer choice.
For most people, there is no choice. It is just
Google because to them, that's the Internet and it may
have been proliferated by Google making these decisions, which is
insane to me. But so Joe, if you know, if
(18:15):
we're like maybe you know, like I'm just trying to
make like a Devil's Advocate argument, could we I mean,
it's gonna be hard to prove, which is the end
of the day, because anti trust lawsuits are the hardest
thing to prove, like ever, they are so hard to prove,
and which is I.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Think it's more of like even the enforcement of it too, right,
like because I mean even in the example of Microsoft,
it's like, you know, they were determined to have had
antitrust action and then literally then it was like nothing happened.
And then like a lot of the time, these monopoly
(18:57):
busting things that the government does takes a long time,
so like they'll have this big thing, but then it'll
be like years before they actually start busting it up.
And yeah, because actually think that happened with Microsoft, right
it was like.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Time to start with it, which makes sense because like,
at the end of the day, if you have something
that is a monopoly, right, you are the market, right,
So it's like if you.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Start just see that comes in has to like figure
out how the business is operated, because if it just
chops it off entirely, you'll destroy a market disrupts. Yeah,
it's disrupting the whole market.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Right, You'll destroy a market. And like, at the end
of the day, it's like the point of this is
to help quality for consumers, right, Like, is to help
quality and also for businesses to actually have a chance.
But literally one of the the at the end of
the giant equation, it's quality to consumers to have choices
and to also have you know, competitive pricing and innovation. Right.
(20:00):
So if you go into like Google and just go, hey,
we're gonna like go through everything and you know, we
need to get everything anti trust done in the next month,
you're gonna destroy Google, you know what I mean, Like
you are literally gonna you know, you can't unbreak so
many eggs if you will, Right, So, you want consumers
(20:24):
to still be able to use these things, right, Like
you don't want it to be like man that like
the internet will not work, right Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So it's I mean, like, what's what's even crazier is
like in the difference of Microsoft where it's like it's
software hardware but like the stuff you had would still work,
right if it's connected to the Internet. Google is like
the fundamental like usage of the Internet would be completely
(20:56):
changed without Google, because it's it's how everyone operates on
the Internet, even if you're signing up for like you know, Okay.
For instance, a lot of businesses run off of Gmail
that's hooked hire Google, that's hooked into YouTube, that's hooked
into their social media accounts, that's hooked into you know.
(21:19):
It's like this big web.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Which is why they the things that It's like Google's
too big to fail, right, and that's where these arguments
kind of come up from. But I also think it's
a dangerous ideology to have because it just stifles these
kind of conversations. At the same time, it's like, don't
go into Google, You're gonna mess everything up. It's like
you got to do it tactful.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Well, it just yeah, it just it means honestly that
there needs to be a change as well, because it
stales and stagnates the market, which is exactly what has happened, yeah,
with the web market and with Silicon Valley, I think.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And one thing that's interesting about this is like there
are many in the same way that you know, if
a particular piece of legislation makes it into Congress. There
are many people outside of the parties of Google and
the government that want to know what the end of
this case will be, right, And what I think is
(22:17):
particularly interesting about it is sometimes it feels kind of binary,
if you will, Like sometimes it feels like in us
versus them all the time. But I feel like, uniquely
in this case, Silicon Valley, specifically with the economics that
it's dealing with right now, might be a little in
favor of let's look at Google, right, it's like, why
(22:39):
don't you break up Google and let us just do
whatever the hell we want? Which is what you know,
if I was the CEO of a mega powerful company, right,
Because what have we talked about on this show all
the time? Like Joe has come on here and said
it all the time too, Like the economics are bad
right now for tech, Like they're just bad. All of
them are having layoffs. They've all said they overhired during
the pandemic. They all, you know, companies that have historically
(23:03):
just been growth companies are finally like being told we
need our money. You can't keep making losses over and over,
and guess what is a potential place to grow is
if they had to break up Google and maybe like
make Google separate or have some of its business kind
of be stagnated if you will in some way, that's
(23:26):
a potential growth place, you know what I mean. Like
if you're already a technology company, it's like, well, maybe
we can make some stuff, which is at the end
of the day, the point of antitrust.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Or at least's true.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Now we got to get into that too. It's like
I've been hidden on Google as a search engine, but
like the ad space of Google is arguably even more important, right,
because this is what's given Google the power it has
basically other than the SEO the search engine optimization, which
(24:01):
for many years we've been using that term, but really
we just met Google optimization, right. Like the thing is
is that at the end of the day, Google has
a giant ad business that is unlike any other SEO
that we can see, you know what I mean, Like,
there is no other business like this, right, And it's very, very,
(24:24):
very similar to the arguments with Ticketmaster, where it's like,
you know, it's like, well, if you don't help Google,
maybe you won't show up in the first couple results,
and ninety nine point ninety percent of people don't go
to the second page. Or if you don't have Google, uh,
maybe your ads are going to be a little bit
more expensive. Since we do all the ads on YouTube,
(24:44):
we do all the ads on a bunch of different
websites through our web services and stuff. So this is
where these millions of documents start going, is you have
to implicitly prove that they've been using this power they
have in the marketplace to flex on these businesses basically,
And that's what's one of the hardest things is because
(25:05):
a lot of it's interpretive. I mean like literally, if
you know, Joe and I were like, ironically, as we
talked about ending the show of Joe and I were like,
we are going to crush all podcasts competition. It is
over other podcasts, right, it is uh, basically like we
can say that, right, and you know, to one person
(25:26):
they're going to be like, well, you know, they were
just trying to motivate each other, and then somebody else
is going, no, this was actually their plan just to
crush other competition, aka being violation of the law. Right.
So that's where that's why they need this many documents
and all these witnesses is because they have to prove
patterns a lot with this too. And especially when it
(25:47):
comes to like corporate talk, what a corporate people all
talk about they want more revenue, they want higher quality,
all this kind of stuff. That's fine, that can be
regular corporate talk. But when they literally talk about using
their position to stifle others, that's where you get in
a gray area where you're like, is this like we
want to provide better quality and products, healthy economic competition,
(26:10):
or is this you're a monopoly? This is how your
business works anyway, Joe, what else? What do you think
about this?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah? I feel like it's just such a complicated structure
when it comes to how and like we're kind of
getting ahead of ourselves too, of like dismantling some of
this thing with Google. I truly don't see how anybody
could like go into this and get out of it,
(26:41):
being like Google doesn't isn't a monopoly because it's the
definition of a monopoly. It's like it's taken over multiple
industries outside of the search engine space, and so it's
like when it's like talking about you know, like how
(27:01):
are we going to dismantle some of this stuff. It's
kind of hard because it's like we have to get
there first. But I do think that in general, it's
it's it's high, it's it's way more complicated than I
feel like other businesses are, mostly because I don't think
like I guess you could kind of compare to the
(27:23):
automobile industry, where it was like, at least for American lifestyles,
it was very pervasive in every home and how you
would get to work, and like it's impacting your every day.
But this is impacting not only like you getting to work.
It's like impacting you get you getting to work, you
(27:45):
accessing your work files, you your right to like person,
pretty much your right to privacy. You're uh, it's getting
into entertainment, it's getting into security of everything because it
(28:06):
passes to Google.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
So it's like and we're gonna have to see it's
in these documents they say that in black and white
or in quiet heavily, you know, like, yeah, these services
could be used against you.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Mm hmm. Yeah. It's just it's pretty tough. I don't
know if if it's even possible to list the amount
of illegal things that this company has done. When it
comes to monopoly law, it's probably pretty it's a pretty
(28:42):
long list.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And at the same time, too.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
God, is it is this the you know, new leaf
for us? You know what I mean? Is this the
new leaf for monopoly law?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yeah? It's like what is what is what is a
monopoly nowadays? Too? Like what it's kind of even that
of like what does a new monopoly look like? It's
not as it's not as like Robert Baron esque as
it was in like the twenties and thirties, you know,
where these people are like basically flexing their wealth all
(29:17):
the time right in the public eye all the time. Well,
people are much more subtle. Well yeah, but like there's
like a difference between rich celebrity and rich.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
But I also think like, at the same time, the
ridiculousness of us, like, let's saying, looking at like a
a he you know, a Henry Ford like Ford Motor Company,
or like a Rockefeller or something now and being like
that was insane. That was clearly bad. And then you know,
the worst fear is that in like ten to twenty years,
(29:50):
we don't do anything, and then we all still go
that was really bad, and they're still doing it, you
know what I mean. So God, it's a it's gonna
be a developing situation. It's just the start, and like
this is all follow through, like if we have any choice.
I mean, it seems that we've gotten to this step first,
(30:12):
we have that. And by the way, this is not
the only lawsuit. There are multiple state lawsuits for different things,
so it's not just all inged on this case. But
this is the biggest one with the Justice Department in
the thirty eight states and the territories. That is by
far the biggest one and is a antitrust specifically. It's
not just hey, a big fine. So that's why I'm
(30:34):
talking about this one. But it seems that many are
asking this question and we are just the beginning of it,
and it's all fall through. Like we've made it to
the cases. It seems like they're well researched. We'll see
if people can give good arguments for it. And I
don't know if Google has a better argument than being
(30:54):
like this is how you change your browser. I'll let's
hear it. But basically, if we get that far, then
we got to get to the judge, which this is
not determined by jury. This is determined by judge, So
we got to see what that person thinks about it.
Then we got to see what the sentence they think
about it is. Then we got to see how that
(31:15):
sentence is either fought or you know, agreed to or whatever.
Then we got to see how that plays out and
is actually executed. So there's a bunch of different things
in here, and we're just in the first step. But
to be honest, this is the first step we've seen
of something like this in over twenty years, so it's
extremely notable. All right, Joe, what about you? What we
(31:42):
got on the on the docket.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
On the docket, well, we have the VMA's that happened
last night.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I'm gonna let you finish. But yeah, that's anytime thinking of.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Speaking of this article that I found is actually about
Taylor Swift. Because if you've been I'm really glad ITTI yeah, no,
But if you've if you've been online at all times,
you've seen just countless clips I'm sure of Taylor Swift
(32:17):
dancing at the VMA's And maybe you're like me, maybe
you've been sitting there and being like, hmm, there's a
lot of clips of Taylor Swift dancing to a lot
of different songs throughout the VMA performances that are just
out and it's kind of like, why why why do
(32:38):
they keep cutting to her? Essentially? Right, Well, it's because
they had a whole camera operator who was tasked with
filming her for the entire duration of the twenty twenty
three MTV video Music Words and So, according to Variety, Swift,
who was sat in the front row beside her publicist
(33:00):
Tree Pain and Ice Spice for much of the event,
was seen by Variety on Tuesday Night continuously filmed by
a cameraman. No other artist was being filmed in the
same manner.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Do you think that's high stress or low stress on
the cameraman.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I actually think it's probably very high stress, because that's honestly,
there's a video. There's like a tweet that like shows
the camera guy, and it's like it's pretty intense. The
dude's like right next to them the whole time, standing
and it's very obvious that she's the primary focus for
(33:40):
honestly the whole show. It makes sense too, right, because
she took home like the most VMA's and she's I
don't know, I mean, I feel like at the VMA's
it's always focused on Taylor because like whether it be
the Kanye West controversy or in other years it Taylor
always takes home a lot of awards from the ceremony
(34:03):
and so it's like a big high like press event.
And it's also in years past, the things that have
gone viral is Taylor Swift dancing and lip syncing to
people on stage right and enjoying the performances, and that
is it's become kind of like the whole spiel of
(34:26):
the VMAs. But what's so crazy is it kind of
shows the power that she has in her branding to
where they are structuring the like how they are shooting
the show based on her and she's not even on stage.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
It's true, Yeah, I mean, which is same. I'm sure
you know there is an every award show we put
the more famous people up front, right you know what
I mean? Like that makes sense, right because then they'll
be yeah, in the shots when we we do them.
We're not having the cameraman only do that. But like, uh,
(35:07):
it's kind of like you're saying it, it feels like
something that wouldn't have, you know, be that irregular. Like
you feel like this must have happened before. I guarantee
you it's very irregular. Like it is, her star power
is immaculate compared to everything else. And I think one
of the things that you know, maybe we're leaving out
on this story is there's just the size of the VMAs,
(35:30):
Like like, yeah, it's a it's a big show, you
know what I mean. But it's like, guys, we can't
get people to give a crap about the Grammys, so
every other award show is kind of like struggling anyway.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So like, yeah, it's it's like why that's why having
an online presence is so important to the VMA's. It's
because you know, the things that get the views over
the VMA's is not the actual event itself. It is
the clips that are all thrown onto TikTok later, right,
that people view millions of times and then they're like, oh,
(36:07):
look it's the VMA brand. Oh look it's these other
brands partnered with VMA's. That's like what the goal is
right for it? And eventually, I'm sure it's to get
people to come back to the show itself, but it's
it's never as of how media is currently going, it
will never go that way because nobody is buying cable
(36:32):
subscriptions and nobody is watching MTV on the regular, and yeh, it's.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Just not it's it's not selling subscriptions, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Like, yeah, it's not. It's not it's not getting people
to tune in, right, Like it is getting people to
pay attention online, which is the biggest goal I think
for them, and also to stream it too, right. Streaming
has become the the new game for that. But it
is it is kind of strange, how like I just
(37:05):
feel like this is it's kind of in a weird way.
It's kind of like, I mean, show businesses show business, right,
whether it be like comedy, whatever, sometimes gets people. Yeah,
sometimes wacky things gets people to pay attention. And that's
(37:26):
been the way it's worked since forever. But now it's
like it's it's even more the case of like this
is people aren't watching this to watch the performances. They're
watching to see Taylor's reaction to the performances. It feels
very I kind of imagine it.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
It's like a black mirror thing.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
I view it as like this is her birthday party
and we're all like the proud parents watch her eye
all the surprise.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Well, Joe knows I am this kind of person. It's like,
it's kind of like what I do when I show
people movies and I just stare at them half the
time in the movie, and I'm just like, you know,
big like joker esque smile looking at them, being like
what we think of that scene? You know what I mean? Like,
that's what it feels like to me, is like we're
all apparently doing this for Taylor Swift. It's like, you know,
(38:26):
I didn't follow the VMA's that much. The one thing
I did see was Taylor Swift, though, and I thought
she had a more major part of the show. So clearly, like,
you know, the advertising here is working like I did not.
I thought she I you know, I thought she like
performed or something like. That's what I thought happened. Because
(38:47):
of all the change.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
She accepted, she she led this year's vm A nominations
with eight nods, including Video of the Year and Artists
of the Year, and she already scored two of the
VMA signature moon Man's statues for Best Pop. And so
according to like, it is really sick looking, it is
(39:09):
so cool and it kind of makes it. It's like, damn,
why doesn't the Grammy, Like, look, the.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Grammy's one is historic though, Like it's just like.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
It's historic, it's classy. I guess it's kind of a thing, right,
It's not like I will say the MTV the MTV
award looks it looks sick, but they continue saying. The
singer songwriter accepted the first v MA of the evening
for Best Pop Music Video from in Sync, who reunited
on stage at the ceremony.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yeah, that was just under the rat like I saw
more about than.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
In Yeah, nobody, nobody cared. Nobody was freaking out over that.
But she said, quote, I'm not doing well pivoting from
this to this, Uh, from being an in Sync fan
to accepting an award. Swift said, like I had your
in Sync dolls, which I'd like to say, but I
(40:03):
don't think she's pivoting anymore. I feel like she's like
pretty in the award accepting business at this point.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Right.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
I think she has like a closet full of awards.
But it is still cool, and I do think it's
like it is just so crazy that like I think
that like in Sync reuniting Honestly, like five years ago
(40:30):
would have been bigger news.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah, I mean I think that was the last thing
it like kind of did. But it was just like
Taylor Swift, It's just there's there's so many eyes, you
know what I mean, Like there's just so many eyes,
like and I mean that like in the sense of
there's so many people, but there's just so much like
that can come through the media stream and Taylor's it
(40:53):
for the whole year has been it, right, Like I
think obviously that you know, I do have to mention.
I mean, I'm I'm you know, I'm proud for Taylor.
You know, I'm just sorry. I keep want to go
on that speech, but like I am proud for Taylor,
but like you I'm proud to see her thriving, right,
you know what I mean, She's she's worked incredibly hard
(41:15):
this year and played all these different places and all
this kind of stuff, and you know, I think that's great.
But like at the same time, it feels, you know,
kind of if I was about to win an award, right,
and like they couldn't get a camera on me or
a good angle, and I knew that the cameraman it's
(41:37):
just because he has to stay on Taylor Swift listening
to my speech, and I like, you know what I mean, Like,
that's that's what I feel bad. I hope that's not
to the detriment of these other people that are getting
the award, But I almost feel like that's kind of
like they that MTV kind of understands. It's like they
don't care about the awards, right, They just care about
(41:59):
the content right half the time. And like, I know
somebody's gonna be like they care about the awards, and
I'm like, yes, they do. But like that's what I'm
saying is that I think we've just had this fall
from grace when it comes to these kinds of awards again,
like not to be like the Grammys of the Grammys,
but it was like, if you don't know any award
shows about music, you know what the Grammys are, right,
(42:19):
Like that's the only one you would know right out
of all them. So it's like it to me, I
feel like the awards have fallen off so much that
it's like we have to kind of go into that thing,
and I think that it's kind of been overdue. I mean,
there's a reason that the Grammys are mostly watched if
you watch them for the performances and not like who won, right,
(42:42):
but like it's uh, I just feel bad if if
this kind of coverage is you know, ghosh and not
you know, heavily monitored to not take away from some
of these people that are learning, you know what I mean.
I just don't want some situation, especially with my experience
(43:03):
with production, where it's like we don't have enough resources
to have everyone miked and everyone whatever, and it's like
you could have put this speech to this person that
just won that maybe this is the beginning of their
career on air, or we could show they were like
twelve times throughout the program like laughing, you know what
I mean. Like that's that's the only thing I worry
about with this man. Like it's just like it's not
(43:26):
her fault. It can't be her fault, like's a holding
the camera right, It's just it's programming. Right at the
end of the day, it's MTV's like decision to do this.
So I really hope that there's not like somebody, especially
with the MTV Music Awards, Like I just you know,
I was kind of crapping on it for a second.
But at the same time, it's like the MTV Music
Awards at one time were like very like almost like
(43:50):
they were seen at the time in the eighties as
almost coming to flourish of being like do we even
need the Grammys anymore? You know what I mean. It's like, yeah,
we got this new one. Right. They were one of.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
The first ones. They knew. Yeah, they were.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
One of the first ones to actually go against the Grammys,
like to have an ecosystem of award shows for music, right.
So it's just like.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
It's well, and the thing about the VMA is it's
like so it was the thing that distinguished the Grammys
was the on stage performances, right, that was like the
big yeah, and it was like to another level.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Which I will give, which I think would be really cool,
which is kind of where my cards lie. As some
of you have heard from our Grammy deep dies. Is
question for the Grammys is always is it for the
people or is it for the industry, because those are
two different programs, right, And I've always felt it would
be really cool if MTV, especially since MTV is nowhere
(44:47):
close to the proximity and you know, like of of
being as big as a Grammys, but also just not
how big they used to be. You know, the those
awards really do celebrate a lot of visual musical material, right,
and I feel like they made that even more industry
heavy in terms of like catering to like industry people
(45:07):
and being like, oh, yeah, you could win an award
in this. It's like, you know, the best music director,
you know, music video director, and we'll put you on
TV you know, or something like that, or record it
of you speech. I'd be like, that'd be really cool.
I just hope that like maybe some ideas like that
aren't crushed. And so it's like here's Taylor laughing, you
know what I mean, But well we'll just see, man.
(45:29):
I mean again, I it's not her problem. She's already
had a problem with her problems with MTV, you know
what I mean. Like thankfully now it seems like they're
really giving her a due diligence. But is it too much?
That's my question?
Speaker 2 (45:42):
You know, Well, what music have you been listening.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
To when there's some is down? I don't know why
I've had that really must sat in town, no close,
but I've been listening to Ronnie millsap More, who's like
probably one of my favorite older kind of it's like
one of the few country people that, like, I don't
know why it rides me. Any person that's like, we're
(46:13):
gonna listen to the good old Country, I'm like, all right, okay,
you know what I mean. Like it's always like I mean,
if they're like semi younger, it'll be like good old
Country and they'll just play like Tim McGraw from like
two thousand and two, and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's real.
And then like then it gets like a scary territory
where it's like, what are you gonna talk to me
about next? Good old Boy? And so it's like, uh,
(46:36):
this is one that I feel like. It's like he's
just the music's held up really well. And Ronnie Millsap
has a good song which is one of his biggest songs.
We're just called what goes On when the Sun Goes
Down and only the lovers know what goes on when
the Sun goes down. But it's just a very catchy tune.
I really enjoy it. I've always enjoyed Ronny Millsap also
been listening to one of Joe's favorites. I know, even
(46:58):
though it's not basically on streaming, No I've talked about
this before, but uh, Breakfast in America by Supertram. Because
I was actually joking with somebody the other day that
all the bands of the late seventies that were like
rock and roll and like a little bit proggy all
fought each other to the death and have legal battles.
Super Tram. I'm not joking. It's all in that period,
(47:21):
super Tram, Journey. What's the other one? Sticks?
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (47:26):
What was the other one? I thought of. There's like
four or five bands I was listing at work the
other day where I was like, they're all late rock
bands that are like two guys that are the main songwriter.
One guy is a very different vision than the other guy.
They get in a giant fight with each other, it
ends the band, and then ten years later they're fighting
about who wrote each song right, and so like they're
(47:48):
all like it's weird. It like really popped up in
those last like years of the seventies in the early eighties,
and it was like for five years, it was like
bands only in that five year period had this. So
I don't know what that is, but somebody take that
information and do what you will. Joe, what have you
been listening to.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
I've been listening to an artist called Johnny Dawson and
he has a song called Counterclockwise, which is really it's
really a good song. It's kind of like it's it's
very emo, but it's I don't know, it's it's it's
really interesting. He doesn't have a ton of monthlies or anything,
so definitely check him out, support him if you are able.
(48:30):
I've also been listening to, and I mentioned this last
episode UH a project called a Beacon School. I actually
listened to the EP today and it's just like, I
don't know if this guy is just like crafting these
songs based on my psyche right as like a music listener,
(48:51):
but like everything is like it's so niche. It's like
niche sounds that I really enjoy that he puts into
each song that I'm just like no other person would
fucking you know, like listen to this, you know, but
like I am like eating this up right now, and
(49:13):
it's really cool. It's kind of like it's like lo
fi but musically so interesting, So definitely check that out.
I've also been listening to the new Barry single called Races.
It's very, very sick. It's got that classic Barry Keys sound,
(49:33):
you know, the like really like chuggy kind of Worldlitzer
kind of vibe. That's always it's always a fun, fun thing.
And then I've been listening to every single single that
Angie McMahon has been releasing, the most recent being Fireball Whiskey,
(49:56):
which is I feel like a relatable song, know.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Really hits.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
We've all had a Fireball Whiskey night.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
Yeah, really just really just hitch in the gut like Fireball. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
Our new sponsor, Fireball, that would be so end. They
really jumped in at the end of the.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
Right, at the end of the show to get one sponsor. Okay,
I would say this, if you would like to sponsor
the show for the next three episodes, we are open
where we could take a Yeah, just God, just drop
a fin God. Yeah again, I'll leave this. Give me
some hard questions, we'll answer it. I'm about it. Let's
(50:43):
do it.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Yeah, we'll have a little therapy session.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Not good answers.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
We could be like Smash with like all of their content.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
We could be like Smash. That's anyway if there's one
way to remember our show, we could be like Smash.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
We could be like Smash in one day. You can't do.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Hi. Thanks for listening to The Biz Tay for all
Things music business podcasts. We appreciate you. How creepy can
I get? Anyway? We have our socials. I'm looking for
questions for the last show. Give me something super hard abstract?
Our label is even worth it? Can you survive as
an Indian artist?
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Now?
Speaker 1 (51:24):
How do you make money in touring? Anything? We'll take
it and as always, guys, thank you so much. We'll
see you next time.
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