Is Grimes Leading The Charge With AI Music?

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Is Grimes leading the fight and AI for music and
gen Z is drinking less.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
You're listening to the biz Tape.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Welcome to the biz Tape. You're all things of music,
business and media podcasts. I'm your host, Colin McKay, my
lovely partner Coast to Coast Joey Wisewski.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Joe, how are we doing this week?

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Doing great? Doing? I have a lot of neck pain
right now.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
That was the opposite I'm doing great.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
I was gonna say I'm doing I'm actually doing horribly
with my neck pain. I can't look to the left
all the way.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Why did you say you were doing?

Speaker 2 (00:49):
I don't know, I just it is that just going on.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Well, I think it's just that you know, personal response
where everybody's like, you know, you have to say you
are good, but you're not, you know, like that whole theme,
which is true, but like then it gets like super lying.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
It's lying to myself about how good, how like horrible
things are when it comes to my health.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
Fair. I uh know.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
I was doing a bunch of stuff for did the
solid auction backstage auction at CMA FES, and I was
doing logistics for that, and literally the last day I
was like, I have like a truck in my yard
and everything. And the last day I'm like, all right,
ready to go, We're all good, and literally I take
one step off the porch and I just like fall
on the ground, twist ankle.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
H literally And then why did you tell me this?

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Well, I you didn't ask me how I was. First off, okay,
so are you not good? So no, yeah, I fell
off there. And then I had to go do this
gig where we raised stuff for solid which is five
oh one C three. I'm a part of Society of
Leaders in Development. Look it up if you're interested in
music business stuff. But uh, not to bory on that
too much.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
But was I was a crazy plug?

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (02:02):
You want to?

Speaker 2 (02:02):
You want to?

Speaker 1 (02:04):
You don't want to know why, because I've been telling
people for five days about it at the auction anyway,
The point is is that, uh, yeah, I I got
out and I took a step and I literally just
twisted my left ankle and my knee. And I was
joking with some of my co chairs because I'm on
the board for it. I was joking with them. I said,
my first thought when I'm like falling at air, wasn't

(02:25):
a man am I hurt? Am I alone right now?
Can I get help? My first thought was can I
run the auction in a wheelchair? I was like, I
think I can't.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
That's a very.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Literally apparently. And you know, people joke.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Young children have told me they're like, is that they've
joke because they'll be like, it's the music guy with
and then they'll look at me and they'll because that
Dave Groll and I'll be like, no, it's not anyway.
Let them have dreams, give them, get them, let them
have dreams, and then be very disappointed that it's me.
So anyway, oh God, speaking of I guess not disappointment.

(03:08):
Let's go with this first story. Do you mind if
I go first?

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Joe?

Speaker 1 (03:11):
First question, trying to be courteous today since someone didn't
ask how I was doing. But anyway, moving on to
our first story AI. We're talking about AI this week
as artists are finally kind of trying to make moves
when it comes to what we're doing with AI, you know,
trademarks and stuff like that, because it's still the wild
West right now, especially when it comes to licensing and

(03:34):
who owns what and all this stuff. And since AI
is fundamentally derivative from artists, and they all admit that,
you know, that's how it figures out how to make
what say, Drake's voice or stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
There's a lot of weird legal stuff going on.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
So now people before the Lost Cat caught up, you know,
or made any precedent, are just like throwing ideas out there.
And in the world of weirdest people to throw ideas
out there, we're talking about Grimes. Yay, you know, most people,
I mean, I like some of grimes music. But it
is really funny because most people know her, you know,

(04:07):
from her ex husband Elon Musk.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Me and Joe are Indian.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Boys from from her photo of the Communist Manifesto.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
After they got divorced, Yeah, after they got yeah yeah,
And so that was you know, not.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Pointed at all.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
But most people, you know, if you're not indie boys
looking me and Joe, most people know Grimes as uh,
you know, the ex partner of Elon Musk. And usually
when we're talking about technology between the pair of them,
we're talking about Elon Musk. But Grimes is actually taking
a potential step forward into the future when it comes
to maybe a new norm for AI stuff, which I
thought was really interesting and honestly is very smart. As

(04:46):
much as I was joking about Grimes right here, she's
at least like rining something.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
It's very capitalist of her. Yeah again, look.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Up Grimes Communist manifesto photos and you'll see exactly what
we're talking about.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
It's any photo shoot you'll ever see in your life.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
So, Grimes has partnered with Tunecore and an AI development
studio known as Create Safe to distribute songs made by
independent artists using grimes elf tech AI voice model, And
that's the name of the voice models elf Tech because
people joke that GNS is an ELF all the time.
This is basically an attempt to try to regulate Grimes's

(05:26):
AI presence. Let's say we'll call it that quote. The
new partnership, which will split some subsequent royalties made from
songs with the singer, is heralded by tune Core as
part of the parent company's you know, belief that this
is their wider AI strategy. So this may be the
reason I'm covering it is this may be some of

(05:46):
the first steps that you see other artists try to do.
So far, most artists are like, oh, take it all
down get rid of it. That's kind of the vibe.
But it seems like something that we can't get rid of.
So Grimes seems to be on the front end of
trying to be like Wells extended Ali branch here. So basically,
Grimes last month, which I think we actually hinted about

(06:08):
in one episode. I can't remember though, but Grimes last
month said in a social media post that quote low
it's a little weird, you know, because she she's got
a very specific way of talking.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
But games. Basically, she said.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Fans can freely create songs using the AI model trained
on her voice, which would be great, and then she's
going to get fifty percent of the revenue. So as
long as she gets fifty percent of the revenue and
the person who has the AI voice of hers gives
her the fifty percent, then she's cool with whatever AI
of Grimes you're doing. And Grimes is also saying that

(06:43):
she's not going to claim ownership of any of the
song recordings for the recording or the composition, which is
very big here. So again Grimes is like, give me
fifty percent of the money and we're cool. I don't care.
Use Aime all you want. Rights and basically that is
very unorthodox in the space. I mean if we've seen
like specifically like a really big one as Drake Drake

(07:05):
we talked about on the show is like nah ah,
this is over, this is bad, you know what I mean?
Do get all of this away? And Universal has been like, yes,
we're going after all these people, and Grimes is like
the first one to actually try to be like, let's
give them something and then maybe I get something out
of it. Anyway, Uh, basically, she's got these two companies,

(07:25):
ton Core and Create Safe and they are finally like
realizing this post that she made. So basically you can
go to the site, which I actually did and I
made a reel about it, and it's called like elf
Tech and you can upload vocals to it and it
will make a Grimes AI voice like right away. So
I actually did it with my own voice. If you're

(07:46):
curious to go to at the biz tape in our
Instagram and you can see me doing this. It is
incredibly simple, like literally you just drag and drop a
file right into it. Again, Grimes is only two caveats,
like I said, are that you got to give her
a fIF two percent revenue split of whatever you're doing,
and then the other thing is, which you know, to
be honest, like was kind of an it feels implied,

(08:08):
but I think she just has to implicitly say it.
She says she's gonna take down anything that's like really
really toxic lyrics or Nazi stuff, and in her words,
so it makes sense, she doesn't want like people being
confused with Grimes and being like, ah, Grimes is really
racist now no, no, no. So she's got that going.
And then basically, if you use this tool, then you

(08:30):
can upload your song or your vocals to tunecore and
then add the Grimes AI as an artist on it,
and it's a separate artist page from all these distributors.
So like you know, if you go on Spotify and
look up Grimes, there's going to be actually two pages
that come up, and one's Grimes and Grimes AI, and

(08:51):
it will separate all of the AI covers into the
Grimes AI page, let's say. And so, yeah, it's really
really interesting because she seems to be the first one
that actually is trying to kind of again extend an
all ranch, but also I don't know, take action if
that makes sense, Like a lot of the other people
were just like, oh, well, I don't know. Yeah, they're

(09:14):
just trying to avoid it. They're just letting it be,
or they're being like uber aggressive and taking everything down,
and there's like no in between. And a lot of
them are kind of like we were, which just wait
on it. There's not as much as the uber aggressive.
But I got I got to point out two things
that Billboard did point out too, And we can talk
about this, Joe, which are two potential problems?

Speaker 3 (09:34):
Which is that one?

Speaker 1 (09:37):
And I'll ask you this question. Can Grimes and tunecore
deal with the volume of AI generated material basically and
approving each one of them one at a time?

Speaker 3 (09:47):
Do you think they could deal with that? Yeah? I
don't think they can either.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Not unless they made an AI to specifically do that task.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Which is ironically what I was gonna say, is that
I was gonna say exactly that that probably it would
have to be automated to deal with it. I mean
a lot of okay, let's say this, A lot of
features of artists that are really big, they get featured
a lot. They you know, say, we personally approve it.

(10:17):
It's not them a lot of the time, right, unless
you have a very involved artist, it's like the team
around it, and they generally have like a general rule.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Right.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
So if I'm like, you know, an artist, let's say
Colin McKay, I go, hey, people can use me in
other songs or other media, and here's the list of
things I don't want to be associated with. Right, Let's say,
like I don't want to be in any alcohol commercial ever, right,
And then they do my work. Basically, the team's over
there at publishing and stuff do all the work. They go, hey,

(10:49):
we just got offered a Budweiser thing. They're interested in
Colin and then they go no, no, no, he doesn't want
anything alcohol. We're not going to do that, right, And
that's how we mostly do it. But you have to think,
like the pipeline of that is a lot if you're
a big artist already, right, So like if you're Drake,
you're getting calls all the time being like can we
do this, can we feature this? Can we put in
an ad?

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Can we do that? All the time?

Speaker 1 (11:09):
And that's already busy enough. But then literally when you
have an AI machine just generating this stuff like all
the time, I can imagine right now, there's somebody who
probably is on this site, like twenty four to seven.
That's making like every Grimes cover known demand, right like
Grimes Christmas albums, Grimes, Grimes does Grimes actually rapping, and

(11:33):
then like that, sorry, that was the worst idea ever
Grimes does Grime.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
But anyway, like that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
They're gonna like abuse this because it is a it's
an extremely easy tool. Again, check my our instagram if
you want to see how easy it is.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
But I don't know how they're gonna deal with that.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
And then even so, like the mystique of her personally
approving at all, which is what it seems like from
all the press releases, is already probably not true. But
then on top of that, just for human beings a
tune core to try to deal with it is insane
not to mention, not to mention, like they're gonna have
to And this is like I don't know AI seption

(12:15):
would say they're gonna have to make an AI that
can scan to see if their AI is somewhere. It
shouldn't be, right, like, because you're supposed to kind of
go through tune core in here. I didn't really say
that you could go to a different distributor. So I'm
gonna assume yes, but maybe you could, like if you
wanted to go to distro kid or some other distributor.

(12:36):
But like I'm sure that people because literally when you
drag and drop the file, it generates the file for you.
So you could just like record your computer of it
and then you have the grimes take and then you
could do whatever you want with it. Right, So the
policing of this is probably the worst part of it.
But like, at the same time, I don't feel I

(12:59):
feel like giving people at least an option to have
a approved way to do it is way better than
a lot of the other people, you know, kind of
throwing the band hammer. What do you think, Joe, I
think at least like a pathway is nice compared to
a lot of other artists.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Right, yeah, I mean I think like it's it's definitely
are you so like when you're you're asking more of
like just the the most ethical way of policing it.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Well, I'm saying, like, let's say this, I think we
can all agree people listening in yourself that AI, we
cannot stop. It is just going to keep going. It's
going to keep generating all this kind of stuff. Everyone's
gonna make covers of everybody, everyone's gonna use everybody's voice.
It's gonna be a legal nightmare for a long time
until the wall catches up with it. We can agree

(13:48):
on that, right, Yes, Okay, so we can agree on that.
So let's keep that in mind. What I'm saying is
is that we, unlike the other artists who are like,
let's just wait and just see what happens legally or something,
or let's be like a universal or kind of how
Drake hinted and just take everything down, Grimes is at

(14:08):
least going, well, if you actually want to do this,
and you want to do it in the right way
that's respectful to me, I will allow you to do
it right, and I will allow a path for it.
And if we're going to get really capitalistic around it,
I will allow a pathway to be legal right approved
by me, and as well as me getting fifty percent right.

(14:29):
So it's kind of a win because these were going
to happen anyway.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
I think.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
I think it's going to increase the amount of Grimes
covers that are available, right, and she might get more
money out of it at the end of the day
as opposed to everyone else. That's like I don't know,
and that's what I'm talking about. Do you think that's
a good idea. I think it's maybe a good idea
just to have a pathway.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
I think that to be honest, I think that this
is like a genius idea, especially from Grimes's own marketing
situation of like staying relevant, staying in people's minds right now,
which I think is is very important, especially for you know,

(15:13):
Grimes is an artist that's like in pop music, but
it's like she's on the fringe of pop music right
It's like she could really dip out at any moment
because it's you know, like the relevance like is different,
or she goes in such a weird direction and it's
kind of I don't know, Like Grimes reminds me a
lot of b York in that way of like being

(15:35):
experimental but then like dipping in and out of it
the popular yeah, like like the popular space, but then
like somehow has this like ravid like mega fan base,
and so it's like I think I think, first off,
I think it's a very, honestly from a business perspective, genius,
right now because I think people will do it. I

(15:58):
think she will have fans and one of the first yeah,
and like and it is paving the way for like
how this could definitely be like policed in the future.
And I do think like this is going to be
a trend, Like I think other artists are gonna attempt
to do this. I think Grimes is in a better
spot because she has the infrastructure in teams around her

(16:23):
to be able to do this, as well as having
the fan base that is very much into technology and
AI and like you know, like wanting to get ahead
when it comes to technology and in wanting to experiment
and play around with it, whereas, like you know, country artists,

(16:43):
their audiences aren't gonna give a shit. You know, like
if if Garth Brooks came out, which maybe it would
be a meme if Garth Brooks did the same thing,
but like Garth Brooks, fans would not do this.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Well Historically, with country music and technology, we'd probably Okay,
so this starts. Now, when do you think radio started
losing power, like in the worldwide, not just country music,
because country music's.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Almost like in general.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
Yeah, give me like a decade.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
I mean, when like the eighties when music videos started.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
You want to go that back eighties nineties, I think
rat Actually I'm going to argue around probably I would
say the downturn of radio being like, oh, this is
in the dominant format anymore is probably you two probably,
But yeah, that's what I'm saying, late two thousands, right.
So then country music, I feel like, finally now is

(17:39):
starting to feel that, you know, with radio. And it's
twenty twenty three, so there's about a fifteen year gap.
So maybe fifteen years from now is what I'm saying,
we will have the Garth Brooks ai and people will
start having a conversation with country music that we had
fifteen years ago, which seems to be the trend on
a lot of issues with country music. Anyway, moving past

(18:00):
that shade I just threw. Yeah, I definitely think that
this is a smart move, like you're saying, and I
think that being on the forefront for Grimes is a
really good thing for her in terms of like marketability,
you know, visibility as well. I've seen a lot of
publications talk about this, you know more than grimes regular

(18:21):
music right now, which may put her more to the
front face right And uh, I think it's a good
move overall, as opposed to, you know, being all holds
bar or let's just wait, because I one, I think
the all holds bar like, let's cancel everything that has
any AI whatever. It's just not sustainable at all. It

(18:42):
costs a lot of money in a lot of hours
from a different teams to try to police it everywhere,
and you can do it because there's the AI is
just gonna beat everyone else, and if you try to
develop AI to stop it, then you're gonna have to
spend so much in R and D to develop an
AI that's good enough to understand content and money like that.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Someone else is someone else is gonna do the opposite
right where it's just like.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
It's gonna be an that beats an AI, yeah, which
is fine, And so like that's what I'm saying is
that feels like a rabbit hole. And then the waiting people,
I feel like it's more of what are we waiting for?
Someone has to start this right and I feel like
Grimes is the is the person that's trying to start this.
It honestly reminds me of one of my favorite artists.
Todd Rundrag was one of the first people to really

(19:26):
start to distribute music on the Internet in the early nineties,
and that's what it reminds me of a lot. So
I think that grimes is kind of like, you know,
if you can't beat them, join them kind of thing.
And she's actually giving a pathway that if somebody wants
to be legally correct and use a grimes AI, they can,
and then she'll get a cut of the money. On

(19:47):
top of that, there's a perk to this. It's very
easy to use, Like I told you, you just drag
a file and there. It's extremely easy to use compared
to other services I've seen. The other thing with it
is that you get visibility out of it because it
says grimes AI is the contributing artists, right, and so
you know, if this started trending and people playing with it, right,

(20:09):
you get the bonus of, you know, essentially having a
feature of artists that has some popularity and you can
tag them properly and everything. Right now, the DSPs are
really you know, trying to watch out for that kind
of stuff, which is why, like when we talked about
like a ghost writer, that guy who's doing all the
AI covers, like all his AIS didn't say Drake, you

(20:30):
know what I mean, or stuff like that, which made
it harder to find.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
It made the SEO way worse, so it blew up.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
But I feel like if he could have put Drake everywhere,
then people would be like, oh man, this is easy
to find. It would have had more views and unlike
this situation where you could literally put grimes AI everywhere.
So it has a benefit to consumers to try to
do it the legal way. The last thing I wanted
to talk about, which is the second problem of it,
is the other grimes ais that exists. Because you got
to remember, everybody in technology, right every startup is trying

(21:00):
to make AI right now, and that means that there
is notably a number of grimes ais that are actually
around and like covers dot Ai, which is a very
big site that has a lot of AI generation stuff,
has a very notable grimes cover that's not officially called
the grimes but it's it's crimes, you know what I mean.
Kind Of going back to what I was just saying,

(21:22):
what I'm wondering is how they're going to compete with
these other versions you know of AI, And that will
be interesting because I think that's going to drive competition
between the space, so like to actually have Grimes on
the team, you know, and be Grimes approved. Let's say,
I'm sure you know there's maybe some problems with like

(21:44):
artists being like I hear myself like this, and then
they listen to AI and they're like, nah, that's not me,
that's not how I sing it. I'm sure people have
a you know, not an exact idea how they sound,
just because of sometimes their personal biases towards their own voice. Right,
But at this same time, to have the person available
and if you're developing the software and go up to
Grimes and be like, Grimes, how would you sing this

(22:06):
is insane, right, Like, Like to have that ability because
she's on board is such a leg up on the
competition that I feel like that's how they're going to compete,
other than the ease of use that they provided in
the legality of it that it provided. So I think
that's interesting. Do you think you know? I think those
are the only three fronts I can think of that
if somebody tried to make a competing Grimes AI, those

(22:30):
are the three things that have to be is the authenticity,
the ease of use, and the legality of it.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, I mean there's not much. Like I mean, I
don't know, Like sometimes we can we can say that
like it wouldn't be as good as like the original creator,
but sometimes other creators can kind of improve upon a
certain type of technology or even get better results down

(22:58):
the road as well. So like, I don't, I don't know.
I feel like I don't, you know, it's it reminds
me a little bit of like, I don't know, like
Bethesda coming out with a game that's broken and then
like the fixing it after the fact, fix it, yeah,
fixing it up. Like, so, I don't know. I think
in this situation, Grimes has a really good AI program

(23:24):
that does a really good job. But I think if
another artist did it and it was like worse, I
actually do think people would be like, Okay, no, this
is better. Use this one.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Like the Mame factor of the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, yeah, I do. I'm also wondering too, like where
when it comes to like the percentage of royalties off
of these songs, is it only in the usage of
Grimes's AI or is it when people insert the file

(24:01):
at that point? Like does that technically mean like, oh,
you use this as a way to make the song.
Therefore I own part of the song now.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
So yeah, that's the weirdest part of it is I
can't find the nitty gritty of the whole thing. It
just seems like to me, if you're using the grimes
ai technology, you're supposed.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
To be like more like a plug in right where
it's like, I mean.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
That would be nice.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
I think that's eventually what we'll do is have some
sort of plug in literally that you put in pro
tools or ableton and then you sing and then like
it's a track on there and then it just modulates
you to whatever kind of sound you want or something.
That's probably the future of it. But right now, it's
just like a file system, right, Like it's literally upload
a file, get a file back.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah, But it.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Is interesting in terms of what you're saying, like the
ownership aspect of it, because like she again she says
she's not gonna claim any ownership of the sound recording
or compas position unless the composition is a cover of
one of her songs, which is you know, it's kind
of superfluous, right because it's literally her song, all right, Yeah,
so like that's it is.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
What if it's a Hannah Montana song.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Though, I mean, we could do it. I could put
it in the generator right now.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
You know, we got the Lima front. I can't do.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
I'm trying to do grimes doing Handa Montana and that'd
be really hard.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
But yeah, or is it it's not anymore?

Speaker 3 (25:27):
It isn't anymore.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
You're right, no, And it says fifty percent of the revenue.
I mean, I'm sure that she just means like gross,
whatever it is, and that that's why I'm wondering because
I can't find an answer about this because it's with
tune Core, right, so I'm wondering if you have to
distribute through to tune.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
Core and so they can distribute royalty.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
That's another thing. It's like how to how do they
even get the royalties to them? Especially if it's like
you know that a lot of people doing this are
going to be unexperienced.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
And that's the thing from the press press release I
can't find is that I can't find if it's like,
can I contact create Safe the AI company and go, hey,
I'm going to distribute it through my distribution company because
I have good relationship with them, and I'm using the
grimes AI, Can I cut you the fifty percent right now?

Speaker 3 (26:13):
That's kind of what.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
I'm thinking too about this situation, because right now it's
screaming more of like we got to just get ahead
and just throw shit at a wall and see what happens,
instead of like being like this is fleshed out, like
this is.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Like well yeah. But at the same time, they're the
first people that I've really seen that like like as
an artist trying to have like this is mine, this
is my product, like.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, And I at the same time, like you're saying
there's gonna be problems because they're first adopters, right, But
at the same time, it's they get the benefit of
being the flagship person that has notoriety for doing this.
I guarantee you that if Grimes is like the six
or seventh person, people would be like, ah, it's just

(26:56):
a grimes Ai whatever, you know what, I mean, to
move on. But since she's the first one that I've
seen really being like here's the legal way to do it,
I think she's getting a lot more notoriety than she
usually does. And I think it's also like other than
just straight up people being like, oh yeah, I forgot
about Grimes and then like streaming or music and stuff.
Just giving herself an ability to get a cut of

(27:16):
this AI money is great because nobody else everybody else
is like, no, I don't want to touch it because
I don't want to give validity to the AI people
until we figure out what the heck's going on with
the copyright and the trademarks, right, and Grimes is like,
I'm just cut a deal personally, like we I'll I
you know, the law changes later. It's not like she can't,
you know, kind of just be like, well, I got

(27:37):
the fifty percent of revenue for all those and then
now I'm I don't know, distributing my own AI model
that you have to buy or something. Right, So it's
gonna be interesting. I think that uh, it's she's gonna
have problems. I mean, it's at the nately, at the
end of the day, she's the first adopter. But I'd
rather see this from the music industry than like the

(28:01):
like frigid kind of atmosphere that the music industry has
created around AI right now, where it feels like nobody
really wants to touch it in a creative fashion, right
now in terms of being like, oh, this imitates this person,
this imitates whatever. I definitely seen it. On the technology side,
people are like, oh, we can make AI to do mastering,
we can make AI to do you know, mixing, we

(28:22):
can make AI to do light you know, all that
kind of stuff that's there. But like the labels are like,
I don't know, I don't even We want to do
our own simple thing that we're going to keep in
the back of our head. And then Grimes is like, Nope,
we'll just bust that open. Anybody can do this. The
only thing I worry about it, like we're talking about,
is do you have to do everything on tune core,
because I think that's a little annoying if you do.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Yeah, I'm I'm like shifting through or shifting through some
of the tracks right now, and they do seem like
surprisingly produced out and like the quality I have.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
To say is like, look, if you've been listening to
the show for a while, Joe and I like absolutely rap.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
On a lot of AI like generated stuff all the time.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
I mean that sounds horrible because it's just not well
done yet, Like it's very new technology. No matter what
tech Bro tells you that they have the secret that
sounds exactly like Paul McCartney. It's like most of them don't,
and it's rough and like the ones that kill me
tell me this, Joe, have you run into all the
TikTok cover ones where it's like this person doing this

(29:23):
and it's AI generated, Oh yeah, and then you can
hear the other person's voice underneath their AI voice, like
because you can tell that you're singing, like because you
can hear it like basically like scrimming and stretching the
other person's voice to make it into something.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
It's not.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Like that's something that the Grimes, I feel like, doesn't
have as much.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
I also think too, it's like which is expected, but
like when it comes to songwriting, it's it's always suffering
a lot of the time. I think with Grimes, it's
like a lot of these are actually in kind of
the Grimes sphere of just like em like high energy.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Well I feel like on top of that, like they're
just they're kind of uh, you know, moving past just
like the actual kind of tonality of the singing. It
just doesn't have a lot of artifacts in it, which
you're nice, like the clear digital artifacts where it's like
something trying to go from zero one hundred and it
can't do it, and it just sounds bad at a

(30:27):
section that's like what a lot of these AI covers
have and that's what drives me crazy. But like I've
playing around with it this afternoon and I was like,
you know what this is like?

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Usable you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Like I and to be honest in almost a positive
way for Grimes. Her voice is distinct, but it's not
like every person in America knows who Grimes is, right,
So it's kind of like you could use this and
tag the Grimes AI and make a song and people
aren't like, that's not Grimes. Like if you tried to
do a Paul McCartney AI right, or a elv or

(31:00):
like you know, Aretha Franklin AI or something right.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
People immediately because they're so big, would be like, no,
I know that's wrong.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
But Grimes is a little bit more obscure. So maybe
like in that space, like you're saying, like the d
M kind of cover space, it could just fit right
in and people don't even realize that it's trying to
copy another artist, so they're fine with how it isn't authentic,
let's say if it has problems. So yeah, I again,
I'm happy that she's taking this step rather than just,

(31:28):
you know, everybody else being like, let's just wait for
some invisible hammer to come down that's going to force
us to do something about AI.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
So yeah, we'll see about that.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Tell me about our next story. Apparently we're all lame,
That's what I'm reading from this next story. Yeah, oh boy,
because Joe and I get them being in both generations
at the same time, because we're right on the border away.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, so huge breaking news, Colin, this is the most
important news article to come out and I feel like
the past year, but there's so much going on. The
world's ending. Our president is it about to be in
prison or former president about to be in prison. There's
UFOs confirmed to be stalking our every move, and gen

(32:19):
Z is drinking less than theirs. So like their ancient ancestors,
the millennials, gen Z has taken to ruining the world,
but instead of adding avocata to their toast and grabbing
daily coffee, they are taken to drinking less alcohol when

(32:40):
they go out, which is actually pretty lame for millennial standard.
But what's really important about this whole thing is that
every press outlet is reporting on it and it's currently
running off of the same press release, which is super
fun to see. But the surprisingly the most education one

(33:01):
was an article by the BBC titled quote why gen
Zers are grow growing up sober Curious? Okay, I just
wanted to throw that.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
Why gen Z? Why would they? I?

Speaker 1 (33:17):
I really the only way that could be better is
why Zoomers are growing up sober curious?

Speaker 2 (33:22):
It's well, here's the thing, and like most in most cases,
I would not have covered this because the screams just.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
Like change new generations.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
Oh god, things are changing, They're making things worse. But
the thing is this BBC article actually hooked me in
because they went into more of like the reasoning rather
than these other people just saying like, oh, gen Z
is doing this right, So why is this important for
the music industry in general? Well, venues are really pissed

(33:52):
off because, according to them, every time they have a
show that's catered to gen Z, the alcohol sales have
been dropping. Just saying because you know, Colin, when you
go to a music venue, the first thing you want
to do is get obliterated every night, right, you know?

Speaker 3 (34:09):
You're I know you're not back off. That's the reason. No, no, no,
back off.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Like literally literally I know your ironic voice, and I
know the questions ironic. But there are people that are
like that. There are people and they're significantly older than gen.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Z people they are and like that. That's kind of
the thing. It's like, like, it's it's so interesting to
see because this is I don't think we've seen a
lot of like, here's the thing. I think a lot
of older boomers and like older generations have kind of
looped gen Z and millennial together. But this is something

(34:47):
that is very much distinctive of gen Z than it
is from millennial generations.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
And can I can I We've seen I was gonna
tell you, can I go in that technically if you
want to know, because I I'm one of the things
I'm also nerdy about, which if you listen to the
show Forever seems to be an ever growing list. Is
generational theory because it's very interesting because people go through
the same major events around the same times in their lives,

(35:12):
so it causes different trends and then you know the
world's in different places whatever. But the point is is
that gen Z starts technically, you know, there's not a
hard cutoff for any of these generations, but gen z's.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Around Technically what they're doing it is nineteen ninety seven.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
That's what I was gonna say.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
It's like they'll say like nineteen ninety five to like
nineteen ninety seven. Some people go all the way to
nineteen ninety three, but you got to be born like
basically middle nineties up and you're in gen Z most
of the time. But I just wanted to throw that
in there if you guys have ever been confused about that.
And then I believe Millennials starts in the middle of
the eighties, is around when they are early eighties, and

(35:51):
then jen X starts around the later sixties, and then
the boomers start with the Baby Boomers nineteen forty five
five to like nineteen fifty five in sixty. So yeah,
that's kind of the generational breakdown. Just if you've never
heard that before, and so you can kind of guess
how old these people are that we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
Confusing is a.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Great is a great band name? Side note? Yeah, but
but yeah, I mean these venues are pissed off, and
like you may ask yourself Okay, cool. Why does alcohol
sales matter? And it's because venues make the majority of
their money off of alcohol sales and in some cases
taking a percentage off of merchandising sales from the bands,

(36:35):
which can be very predatory in some cases. Can you
tell that I'm biased or or based? Go for the
gen Z words? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (36:49):
No cap, keep going.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
You no cap, no cap sligh. So I'm sure all
of you are on the edge of your seats at
this point. But the main reason that gen Z is
refusing to partake in the devil's juice is that, in
contrast to many generations before them, gen Z is focused
on their own well being and mental health, as well

(37:12):
as concern over their social image on the Internet as
well as in person. Yeah, it's not just for social
media essentially, because I think a lot of people tend
to think that gen Z just wants to be on
the internet all the time. But it's actually really interesting

(37:33):
because they go into like what what is fun for
people who are gen Z and like what does it?
What does it like? It's one of the kids on you.
You have to one of the kids into these days.
But you have to you have to read this article
because It is really interesting because I think in a
lot of cases, like growing up right, like me and

(37:53):
Colin both have millennial like older millennial relative, and so
like watching them getting on the internet was escaping for them,
and now it's kind of the opposite. It's like, oh,
gen Z wants to be off the internet at this
point because it feels like they've just they've been so oversaturated,

(38:17):
they've their whole life. Yeah. So so for them it's
like it's not as like cool, it's not as like
it doesn't feel as rewarding to them as it did
for like millennials and older generations. So, according to the
BBC quote, part of the reason for the decline in
drinking is that gen Z appears to be more cautious

(38:38):
than older generations, both in terms of their health and
how their peers perceive them. The decrease in alcohol consumption
is certainly not happening because of alcohol policy, because all
risky practices are it's because of all risky practices are
going down in general, So gen Z is not doing
as much drug use unprotect at sex risky behaviors like

(39:02):
smoking crime and smoking crime and driving hazardously. I love
that quote, Young Young people are more risk adverse in general,
says Amy Peney, a senior Research Research fellow at the
Center for Alcohol Policy Research at Latrobe University in Melbourne.

(39:25):
Which I didn't realize that there was an alcohol policy
research center anywhere in the world, but I learned something today.
But also according to the BBC quote, Google research in
twenty nineteen showed forty one percent of gen zers associate
alcohol with vulnerability, anxiety and even abuse, while sixty percent

(39:48):
of UK gen zers associate drinking with a loss of control,
almost double those who do not agree with that. So,
according to John Holmes, who is a professor of alcohol
policy at the University of Sheffield, gen zers have a
deeper awareness of health risks, but that they also actively

(40:08):
shun the notion of drunkenness quote. In the mid to
late two thousands, getting drunk and binge drinking was a
way friendships performed and solidified. Even experiencing the negative effects
together was a key part of making and sustaining friends
in adolescents and early adulthood, he says. But gen zers

(40:29):
are more likely to see drunkenness as unpleasant, uncool and
uninteresting their works, so as more and more gen zers
vote against alcohol companies with their bucks pretty much. Many
are exploring the mocktail space in order to add more
value to younger audiences as well as being more experiential. So,

(40:54):
like a lot of bars, a lot of venues are
starting to add more things to in order to get
younger people in their space because a lot of younger
people are becoming the main audiences for these venues. So
one of the things that they said is shuffle board tables,
which I would be lit and they were like, I mean,

(41:16):
it sounds great, but I'm also just like, how do
we hook the young auds shuffle board table.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
If they were like, if they were like, guys, we're
lowering our drinking prizes. Bud light is now four dollars
a can, I'd be like, all right, whatever. If they
were like, we're adding shuffle board, I'd be like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Board, I'm aware, but yeah, they're adding shuffle board. Imagine
just like Phoebe.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
Bridges on stage, you'd be like, you're just hitting shuffle
board at the same time as the background.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Thing. That's interesting you bring that up because a great
example of a music venue doing this well is Brooklyn Bowl,
which is a chain of venues around the US, and
they offer bowling, drinks, and concerts, and most of the
time they happen at the same time, so you'll be
watching Phoebe Bridgers on stage and then you'll be bowling

(42:06):
in the other room to the side. So it's more like,
I don't know, it's more experiential and so like having
more activities. I think like more gen zers are interested
in just like having activities together rather than losing out
on like the quality time. Because a lot of the
people they interviewed in this article, there's one person in

(42:31):
particular who said that they used to drink a lot,
and then the pandemic happened. They went back to live
with their parents and they stopped drinking the whole time
that they were there. They started working on themselves a
bit more and like started actually like deciding what they
kind of wanted to pursue in life. And one of

(42:51):
the things that they came to realize was that they
actually enjoyed themselves more in social situations when they weren't
plastered drunk, and a lot of the times made better
connections that way as well. So what like they they
put as they put it, I'd rather remember the people
I met like that night, which I think is like

(43:12):
it's it's a very stark contrast where it's like, you know,
you kind of hear older people and they're like wild
parties of just like bar hopping and like getting shit
faced and then like meeting thirty people, but like ultimately
not making friends with any of them, right right, Which
isn't that the whole purpose of socializing and going out

(43:33):
is to is to make friends.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
I mean, you're.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Hitting it on the nail, I think, definitely other than
just gen Z in general, but like also, I want
to hit the pandemic for a minute, and it literally
it feels like a broken record, just as society to
say this, but the pandemic fundamentally changed a lot of
people's outlook on life. Who you know live through there
and lived through it at different points in their either adolescents, adulthood,

(44:00):
or even childhood. So I think the pandemic definitely had
an effect on consumers with making them because it was
a health related scare, making people really look at their
health situation, right, And drinking is a health situation, you know,
drinking and drugs affect your health, So that is a
part of it that people looked at. And then also

(44:22):
we had all the places closed down, so it wasn't like.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
You could be in your routine anymore.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Maybe if you hit the bar every week or every day,
you know, if you were really crazy with it, right.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Well, and then you know, drinking at home it's like
the most uninteresting thing to do.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Well, it's a social It really shows how much social
pressure is put on drinking. And so like, that's what
I'm saying, is that other than the gen Z effect,
we may be seeing that they're sadly you know, and
the business I've been hanging out with a bunch of
business managers this week. We're really seeing also what's happening
with venues is the lack of diversification when it comes
to their income streams, right and at especially with venues,

(45:01):
like a lot of them are just think about like
venues that you would go to to see a band.
A lot of them are just spaces and they sell
alcohol and that's it.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yeah, exactly right, which Colin, Like that brings me to
my question to you is like, do you feel sorry
for these venues because of the shift in mindset?

Speaker 3 (45:21):
Do I feel sorry?

Speaker 1 (45:23):
I wouldn't say sorry, I mean like I would say
that you know something, maybe that alcohol has been a
staple since literally prohibition ended in an American society and
also around the world as being a money maker. Right,
we may see some different changes here, which is where

(45:44):
people make those jokes like you were joking about earlier,
where it's like, ah, millennials are ruining motorcycles because people
aren't buying motorcycles, or millennials can't afford houses because they're
buying avocata toos, that kind of stuff. We may see
like different changes in these venues are gonna have to
adapt depending on how their spaces are though. That's gonna
be the hard part about adapting, right, is that, like

(46:07):
do they have space that's designed to be adaptable. I mean,
if you're literally a if you're literally just a box room,
right and you have a stage there and then you
have a bar, you don't have room for anything else,
it's gonna be hard for you to pivot, right. And
a lot of these other places that you would get
revenue have been getting chopped at for years. I mean

(46:28):
the promoters and Live Nation and the bands have been
fighting about you know, tickets and ticket fees and stuff
like that. So you're gonna have a rough time trying
to get more on tickets. Merch has become now the
chopping ground for Hey, everybody, remember merch, let's get a
cut for it, which is where all the artists are
trying to make their money anyway, because they're not making
it on records, right, So, like, it's gonna be hard

(46:52):
that a lot of these other revenue streams that I
could like readily think of that are associated with the music,
like to add or you know, a percentage or a
different percentage too if you're a venue. So I think
you're gonna have to see some pivoting here when I'm
gonna be honest with you, like we are right on
the cusp of gen Z. Joe and I like where
and we did have older millennial siblings, so like we're

(47:14):
kind of in the middle, but we're also grow.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
Up gen Z.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
And when I first heard about Brooklyn Bowl, because we
have one here in Nashville and I knew about the
one in New York, I was like, what the heck
is this? Why would you you know, go see a
serious concert and then have people going, you know, hitting
strikes And then there's like a animation of a bomb
going off on the bowling screen to show you got
to strike. But like, yeah, like that was my first thought.
It was like how does this work? But now, like

(47:38):
as time has gone on, it's kind of funny because
it's almost like, yeah, that makes sense, right, And I
think that well.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
I think it's creating a like a more not only
safe space for people who who aren't interested in drinking,
but also I think it's it's allowing people the choice
to day longer after the show is over, right, It's
it's to like fully utilize the time that you want

(48:10):
from these people who are coming to your venue.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Yeah, you might have to be not just a night
venue anymore, right, Like you could have.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Yeah exactly, which like some of the best venus, especially
here in La which is like one of the more
fun parts of like venues here is is that you
don't just like leave when like a show is done here.
Like I feel like in Nashville you go to a
designated venue, then you go out to another bar. But

(48:39):
here it's like a lot of the time the bar
is in the venue and you just like you hang
out and like you shoot pull or you do some
other stuff, and there's like more things happening. Like there's
a there's a really good like indie venue here called
the Goldfish down the street from my house. That's like
it's literally just a stage, but they also have pool,

(49:00):
they have a dance floor, they have like tons of
stuff going on.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Well, glad you brought up dance floor because that's literally
what it reminds me of is we may see a
return maybe even more disco bars. Well, what I'm saying
is like, if it weren't to have extra activities that
maybe could be moneymakers or an incentive to maybe increase
prices on other things that are happening, like it, you know,
doors go from ten to twenty now dollars wise, right, Like,

(49:28):
maybe we will see kind of that return of having
And for me, Joe, I think maybe you can echo this.
The idea of having like a band just kind of
play in the corner was like is a very old idea, right, Like,
there wasn't a lot of that when I was coming through,
you know, growing up and everything. Right, it was always

(49:48):
like you go and see a band and then there's
drinks there right then, and that's like the symbiotic relationship
that's there, right, and like but you're there to see
the band, but literally it feels cyclical in the same
way that like, let's say, you know, a jazz club
used to be where it would be, Oh, yeah, they're
playing jazz in the corner, we're playing pool, you know,

(50:11):
we're doing shuffle board, apparently, bowling, we're dancing, you know,
and it costs twenty dollars to get in the club.
And we want to go to the club because we
want to go to the club, not to see the band, right,
Like stuff like that where I feel like maybe we
could see more experiences happen in these venues, and they're

(50:32):
just gonna have to be agile on their feet. The
sad part about, you know, a lot of this stuff
is how quick can you recognize this? What can you
do with your space? Right, because some of these are
just not designed.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
To do that. What other kind of experiences can you offer? Right?

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Maybe instead of oh it's a music venue, we're supposed
to have drinks, you know, and then watch or whatever,
it could be, Oh we're doing I don't know. For
some reason, I think of amphitheaters. Right, It's like, oh,
we're doing plays here now, right, and the ticket prices
are higher and that's where we get more of a
cut is from the plays, right or something like that.
Like that's what I'm saying is they're gonna have to

(51:09):
think outside of the box because not not to like
overstretch this at all, but it's very synonymous to movie
theaters and the popcorn and the stacks basically right where
everybody knows that's where the movie theater makes their money.
They don't make their money off the box office. They
make very few dollars off the box office, right, they

(51:30):
make their money and being like buy this popcorn for
ten dollars, which is why the popcorn is so expensive, right,
And the same way, but that's what a music venue
does a lot of time. Is like why is a
beer ten dollars at a bud light or even a
sports center? Why is it ten dollars?

Speaker 2 (51:44):
I the polydium, the Hollywood politium. I swear to god,
I paid like fifteen to twenty dollars for a liquid death.
Yeah that was It's like excuse me.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Right, And so like that's what I'm saying, is like
it's that that's a deal from them.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
But that's the thing. It's like these venues are crying
over it, but then it's like, dude, you're you realize
you're making the experience worse for your customers.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
They're not diversifying their experiences.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
They're not diversifying. Also, they, to be honest, a lot
of venues do not make it easy to be a
music fan. And they have a bunch of shit that's
involved in whether it be the security process, or the
ticketing process, or even the customer service process that a
lot of the times makes you feel like a piece

(52:36):
of meat rather than a human. And so I think
a lot of people are getting upset and con I
don't know if you've seen on TikTok, and it's especially
I It's popped up for me multiple times. It's a
lot of younger people talking about how they are sick
of going to concerts and they do not like the
experience of going to concerts.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Well, you know, and I actual because it's like, like
the thing that I was going to say was that
the experience going to concerts is so like locked in, right,
it feels the same everywhere, right, it doesn't feel special,
you know, like, And that's one thing I was going
to add is that like a lot of these places

(53:17):
have become so corporatized and standardized. Right, they don't have
an identity anymore. They're just like an amphitheater that could
be you could place this in New Mexico. You could
buy this in Nashville, yeah right, owned by Live Nation.
You could just throw this anywhere. And it's supposed to
be not offensive in the most way and have no character,
so it has no appeal to it. So then when

(53:38):
you take away, oh, the band is you know the band, right,
they're going to bring who they can bring, and then
the alcohol is expensive but we don't even want that.
Then there's like no identity to it. So I'm hoping
that it'll cause competition in the space to be like, ah,
this this place is a real identity, Like it has
a real ambiance. Let's say I will pay two extra

(53:59):
dollars for the ambiance. I think a great example of
that is like red Rocks, right, Like red Rocks is
a as a venue type.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
You're going for the venue, right, yeah, but like experience.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
I'm sitting there, like if I start thinking about like spaces,
like not to throw them on anything. The people will
work there are great, but like we have a send
amphitheater here, like I also grew up in Georgia and
we had the Lakewood Amphitheater. They're essentially the same.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Like there's the station outside.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Right, they're in two different places, right, Like, why can
we not try to have experiences there? I, you know,
the people do great with you know, serving the drinks,
they do great with the security whatever. But that's the
same everywhere. Why can't it have a cold now? I
will say it. I will say when it comes to send.
The story that pops in my mind was my partner
was telling me that she went with her friends to

(54:51):
Ascend and the security you refuse to let them take
their perses in and they told them a line of
like I it was like three hundred four hundred girls
to throw their purses into the bushes to the side,
which they did not do, and they just decided to leave.

(55:14):
Because that's the thing, right. It's like why even like like.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
It's not a good experience for people, you're not making
it a good experience. And so when a lot of
these venues are I don't know, it just seems like
the edgy like team that's like I don't understand why
people hate me so much when I talk shit and
like do all this crap, you know, to people, it's
like giving that.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Yeah, and I get what you mean. And the thing
with it that I think it's gonna be, it's gonna
be a little rough because we're gonna have the diversify
or income more from places that necessarily are gonna take
either upfront investment, let's say, to add more experiences to
the space, or update the space, create some ambiance with
the space, right, make it a cool club or something

(56:03):
like that, right, Or it's going to take fighting tooth
and nail with percentages for stuff that have been fought forever,
like the promoter's percentage, the artists, how much you're paying
the bands, you know, the merchandise that's and that's gonna
be the hardest battle there. You're probably better adding experiences.
Problem with that is that you know, venues are still
recovering after one whole year of not having you know,

(56:26):
any business, right with the pandemic, and some of them
literally didn't have any business for two and two and
a half years, right, And some of them didn't survive,
but some of them are still you know, living it
out on these loans that they had to do to survive.
So I feel bad for a lot of those that
don't have maybe the infrastructure, the ability to pivot, to
have investment to add to their space, even if they

(56:48):
have like a good idea.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
But we'll see.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
I think what's going to happen here is that I
think it's overall maybe a good move to try to
give a lot of these clubs in different place places
identity as opposed to being a band a place where
a band plays. It's going to be a place people
want to play, right, which is yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
I mean, I think experience.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
I think it's going to be more exciting for bands
to play. A lot of the times acts like fucking
hate some of these venues that they're playing, mostly because
it's like it's a box. It's a box room with.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Exactly it's a box to sell see.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
With a you know, a closet as the green room,
you know. Yeah, and so it's like a lot of
the times it is just like I feel like a
lot of people in music, especially in the live space,
whether it be promoters or venue owners, tend to first off,
I think I think it's a lot of just like, oh,

(57:46):
we've been here for generations, therefore we're doing it right.
Still mentality but I also think there's a level of
like not caring for people.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Like it's amazing to me how many venues that I
talk to that'll be like, we are a pillar of
the community. We people respect it and I and it
just feels like, you know, and I talk to all
these Nashville venues sometimes and I can go I feel
like I can name on one hand the venues that
I feel like have a particular identity that strike people

(58:24):
that have a very good idea, you know, ambiance, very
specific vibe, something is added here right on one hand,
And there's way more than that in Nashville, right. And
the thing with that is what I'm saying is that
I think a lot of people have taken for granted
how easy it was in previous times just to be like.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
We are a box.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
We have this band that is playing. You are going
to buy alcohol because there's a band playing, right, and
we don't have to worry about anything other than making
sure that nobody comes in here with a bomb or
a gun and that we you know, serve liquor to
people that are over twenty.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
That's all we have to worry about.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
The band's gonna deal with themselves and the sound guy's
gonna do all that, but that's as a venue. That's
what we're gonna have to deal with, right like that.
And I think that's the amazing part, and I think
that's the part that I don't feel sorry for is
the people that are like, we really had this lockdown
and it's like, well, did you or were you just
a box that serves drinks rather than a club that

(59:22):
is a you know, thrill to play, right, And that's
a very different atmosphere. So I think it's gonna be
interesting because, you know, gen Z as the older generations,
you know, phase out of going to concerts every three seconds.
I mean, the boomers are you know, getting old guys, sorry,
and they're not gonna drink as much as they used to.

(59:43):
And gen X is gonna drink until you know, a
certain time, and then gen Z like it's gonna be
a you know when we get gen Z right now,
like Joe and I are on the pinnacle part of it,
we're in prime consumer money right twenty what is it
twenty to like thirty seven?

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Like that consumer we're in prime consumer money. But at
the same time, Colin gen Z makes much less than
many of the generation's previous, which I think is another
situation when when it comes to this drinking stuff, because
drinking is deemed as this like very expensive luxury right

(01:00:25):
where it's like I agree, like you were saying, before
you're going out to a venue, you're paying at least
a hundred bucks. If you want to actually get drunk
out of venue, you're going to be spending at least
a hundred bucks.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
Oh yeah, I mean, and not to mention like you know,
if if for instance, like you have drinks and then
like you got an uber or something, you know what
I mean, you gotta have right, and that that's why
I think a lot of these people don't want to
do it. And like they're saying, they're risk adverse, right,

(01:00:57):
you know, and that's a risk right to deal with that.
There's a lot of people in a room, and especially
now in our day and age, with the security risk,
there are a lot of people would rather be alert consistently,
and so I think at that point, other than just
the non drinking, also it's it's you know, the kind

(01:01:18):
of like the movie theater thing. You could sneak a
sandwich into the movie theater, same kind of principle with
the concerts, right, Like you could just get blasted before
if you're really a drinker, which it seems like a
lot of the gen Z isn't. But like if you
were one of the gen Z that's really like, hey,
I want to get you know, faded before a show,
just do it before, right. There's no incentive to do

(01:01:39):
it inside the venue, in the venue to make money.
And that's kind of the thing where I think that
it's going to be a rough strokes for a lot
of these venues that have zero identity and zero distinguishing
factors other than they're a box that serves drinks. I
think that, like you're saying, gen Z is one risk

(01:01:59):
of more strap for casts and stuff. But the thing
I was also going to say is like they're worthy
market to go after, because at the end of the day,
I will always know, like, let's say people that since
we're on the upper age of twenty six, right, I
know a bunch of twenty one twenty two year old
so I go three to four shows a week. I
don't know many fifty year olds that are gonna do that, right, Yeah,

(01:02:21):
And so that's where the value is. And this is
why this data is very valuable to clubs and promoters
is to go how can we get this younger generation
that's gonna go to a show, you know, almost two
to three times a week, because that's two to three
times more customers at the end of the day. And
if you can provide more customers that way, then you're
filling out shows, you're selling tickets. There's whole more revenue

(01:02:43):
streams and more opportunities to sell rather than one big
sale that you can mess up if somebody's like, ah,
I'm just not going to drink tonight, right, So we'll
have to see how this grows. I think it's a
very interesting question though, like how can you do it?
And I'd love to see more stuff again. I think
you brought up a great example. Brooklyn Bowl was like

(01:03:04):
one of the best examples I've seen of that and
that actually has a balance and it doesn't feel like
disrespectful right that you're sitting there like bowling while someone's playing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Mm hmmm, one hundred percent. Well, Colin, we've come to
the end, and with the end comes our music taste.
So what have you been listening to this week?

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
Let's see.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
So I was down at Cmafest running Solid's auction, right,
So I was listening to some country music, which as
much as irusy you know.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Actually that was when when I was here in nash
we were at Santa's doing karaoke, and uh, I had
requested I can't remember what country Sean is saying, and
they put, uh would they put Friends in Low Places on?
And I sang the whole song and it was so
it wasn't the song I jose at all. And the
guy was like afterwards, he goes, that wasn't your song, right,

(01:04:06):
I go no, He goes, can you just shaying it?
And I was like, yeah, I don't care. I live
in Nashville, so I have to legally know all the lyrics.
That's how you have to move here. But no, but seriously,
I've been listening to some country music. Actually a little bit. I'm,
you know, more of old school than anything, so don't
be surprised. One of my favorites is Time marches On

(01:04:26):
by Tracy Lawrence, which he's always been a very classic
kind of country guy. But it's kind of a fun
song because it's just like it's a very well put
together story, which.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
I mean, that's what country music is.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
That it's heart right, but Tracy Lawrence does a really
good job of just showing literally how time marches on
and like the differences in just three verses, which is
kind of like the efficiency of words if someone's heard
me say that on the show before. But it's just
about like, you know, his family getting older and stuff
like that. And the one that we think is really
funny is like, you know, I talked about like sisters

(01:04:58):
try and makeup brothers, smokes a dope, you know, dad's
got a girlfriend, Mom's depressed, and then it like moves
on and like the dad's dead, all this kind of stuff,
Like that's how the time marches on. And that's the
only thing that's the same. It's the time marches on, right.
But for some reason, I think it's the funniest thing.
There's like a break in the song where it just
does an instrumental thing and it goes finally in the
third verse and she the thing that kills me in

(01:05:20):
the song, and I think it's the funniest thing to
sing out of context. It's like one of my favorite
lyrics is a sister calls herself a sexy grandma, and
I just think that's the funniest thing. I don't know why,
but it's like so relatable, the amount of like you know,
speaking of boomers or you know, gen X even like
he would be like, yeah, I'm a sexy grandma. I

(01:05:42):
just think that's the funniest thing. He just seems very
on it, and so yeah, that's probably my pick for
this week. Other than that, I've also been blaring I
Would Die for You by Prince a Lot. I guess
that was just my vibe at the auction as I
was running it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
Anyway, Joe, where were you? What do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Too incredible? I've been listening to there's like a track
by a Robotake. It's called the Possibility of a Dream
Coming True and it sounds edgy, and it's because he's
a DJ, I think, but it's really cool. It's like
there's a lot of really fun elements to it. It's

(01:06:22):
the intro of his record, and it has like a
switch up like midway way through the song that like
really catches you by surprise, and I think, like, I
don't know, it just really hooked me and I was like, fuck,
I have to listen to the rest of his music,
you know. I've also been listening to a single called
Ripcage from Benedict, who is a wonderful Nashville artist. Should

(01:06:46):
definitely check him out a lot of singles this week.
I've also listened to top Dog by Magdala Bay, which
was a song that kind of popped off on TikTok
a little bit but then kind of died out. But
it's like, it's a really good song. I don't know
why it didn't kind of blow up a little bit more,

(01:07:07):
but yeah, that's uh, it's about it on this run.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
You know, I just realized this pick I've been thumbing
through the entire time is a nickelback pic.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Nice. That's you know, it's really really kind of soaks
it all together, se wh can get the cap the
vibe of this podcast ending it on a nickelback pick?

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Have you ever heard a photograph? Guys, thanks for listening
to biz Tape. You're all things music, business and media podcasts.
We sure appreciate you out there. If you want to
go one step further, please rate the show, good bad,
whatever wherever you're listening to helps us out, as well
as follow us on our social media at the biz
Tape pretty much everywhere you can find us on almost
all social media platforms. Anyway, guys, I want to say

(01:07:59):
thank you once again for listening to the show getting
all the way through the episode. You're the real troopers
out there and we hope to see you next time.

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