THE FINALE OF THE BIZTAPE

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Sources:

Joe @pentaxplaybox

Colin @colinmustsmash

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Welcome to the final episode of the biz tape You're
All Things Music, business and Media podcast. I'm your host
for the last time, Colin McKay, with my host Coast
to Coast Jesseph Baslasi, who he did refer to have
an episode.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
I just want everyone to understand that Colin has literally
like run this whole show since the very beginning, and Colin,
I just want to say this to you that it
truly has been just a wonderful experience doing this podcast
with you, and it's taught me so much, and that

(01:06):
you absolutely crush it every time every day we did this,
you crushed it.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
Well, thank you. I think I have some room for improvement. Now,
wouldn't that.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Be the I do?

Speaker 1 (01:18):
I do you imagine you said this really heartfelt thing
and I was just like, yeah you did.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
All right, yeah, well fuck you. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Okay, No, Joe and I have been ping this from
the beginning and it's been a long ride. So we're
taking it easy on this episode, just talking, you know,
kind of let add knowledge about the business, media whatever.
I have some things that I haven't told Joe about
that I was like, oh, let's uh ask Joe about

(01:48):
this or whatever, because I saw some stuff. But it's
gonna be really relaxed for this one. We don't know
how long this will go on. But I mean, I mean,
first and foremost, we're at one hundred and fifty episodes
on my episode counter. But we did and you know,
we did those Grammy.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Episodes, so we did crazy, we did. Wait, how many
years doing this?

Speaker 1 (02:07):
We've been doing this for three years, Joseph, three years.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Holy shit, dude. So when this.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Comes out, it would be about three years of content,
which I mean, I think we should go into a
little bit of like how we got here with this
because we never we never said it, and like everyone
I've talked to, you know, I'm a pretty bashful person,
you know, like I had not perceived on the show
at all, but in life, I'm not just over here like, oh,
I have a podcast, you know what I like. It's

(02:33):
just like more of what I'm saying is that I thought.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Like that where you're in the corner of the party
and they're like, no one knows that I have a podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Right exactly. So let's get into I mean, Joe and
I met in college, as some of you have inferred,
and I've said multiple times on the show, and we
just got along so well right immediately about a lot
of things musically and stuff like that. And Joe wanted
to go into more content side and I wanted to
go or towards audio. So we kind of always had
like a synergistic relationship with one another, and we decided

(03:07):
like we were living together still after college. I was
in the beginning of like my live sound kind of career.
Joe had just kind of really started going like fully
freelance out of school everything like that. And you know,
it was twenty nineteen, and in touring, there was nothing
that could happen. There were no place we could.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Nothing, There was no Iceberg on the horizon.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Exactly, and nothing was. Nothing's wrong, nothing is wrong. By
the way, Joe and I are slightly drinking for this episode,
so enjoy that anyway.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Can you tell?

Speaker 1 (03:41):
So it was twenty nineteen. Nothing could stop us at all, right,
And then I got a call. I'm literally sitting in
our like shop and somebody goes, if you heard about
this virus in China, and I went, but of probably,
you know, it's gonna be like swine flu. It's gonna
be like you know, over and done, you know, some
people you know, might get really hurt. I'm really sad

(04:04):
for them, and we need to develop a vaccine. But
it's like, you know, it's gonna be like every other
kind of thing we have, where like Hilaria pops up.
And two months later we were going to halftime hours
and we were very uncertain about this what our jobs
were gonna be there, So, you know, at that point

(04:25):
went to you know, kind of there was no touring whatsoever.
I mean, everybody was trying. This was before we even
figured out the normalcy of like, you know, I'm trying
to think like an example, like it would be like
a FedEx are you ready to rock out? I can't
hear you from your couches, you know, like and it'd

(04:48):
be like, well, this song and then that we haven't
even got to there yet, right Like, it wasn't like, oh,
we're going to do zoom corporate things. Nobody knew what
the hell to do. So I was sitting in our
house Joe and I lived in, and I remember, you know,
my brain started going a little crazy because funny enough,
at the time, I was on unemployment plus the six

(05:08):
hundred dollars a month that we had and I was
making more money than I ever had made because I
was in the beginning of my career, so like that
a week was more money than I had ever made.
And so I just decided. I was like, Okay, I'm
gonna do things for myself. So I started running, I
started doing stuff, and you know, I had always been
kind of a creative body, Like I did some songs,

(05:29):
I did all this, and I kind of was like, Joe,
why don't we do a show? And Joe, I remember
you were like about what, like what are we going
to talk about? It was so funny, like you were
so innate with it. You were like, we are doing
a show, but we just don't know what we're doing,
which I think was part of like, you know, the
atmosphere at the time, because we were all just trapped inside.

(05:50):
What else were we gonna do? You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Well, I think too. We had like we had a
we had a friend, not had we still have.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
He's gone now, our friend he's gone now?

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Who he said something right about starting a show or
was it like that you guys can talk forever about
this shit or something? Because we would just get into
these like insane in tenth conversations.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Exactly, and like we would just be we would be
ruining dinners across Nashville because like we did, Joe and
I would just start on some tangent about something we
heard on the news, and like it all came back
to our college days where we were you know, thriving
music business students, smile as an audio kid, and like

(06:38):
we would just sit in the college and we'd be like,
did you're about mgmt's new album? And they'd be like,
that's really strange. MGMT hasn't like and we would just
keep going off. So we never stopped doing that. Like
we would just be menaces at parties, like, you know,
everyone's having a good time, we're dancing or whatever, and
then I'm over here talking about how interest rates are

(06:59):
going to the record labels, you know, and be like
isn't that interesting? And everyone else is like go away,
and Joe's like that is interesting. So that's how we
got here. But like seriously though, like that's how this started.
And then you know, I can't go into details, but basically, uh,
some people kind of saw what we were doing and
believed in us, and all of a sudden we had

(07:20):
a real quote unquote show, you know what I mean,
And it was like, oh my god, here we are.
So it's just kind of crazy, like you're saying, it's
been years.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Which very much thank you to Bobby and Mike from
Nashville Podcast Network for who have always been very for
like yeah, and and for taking a chance on us
as well, Like I mean, we couldn't have asked for
a better team.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
They featured us on their show. We like, you know,
they reached out to us, like we didn't. We didn't
we didn't campaign at all for ourselves. We thought this
would be a fun little covid.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
I mean, we we got very lucky, right like with
them finding out about the show and stuff, and like
we we had we at that point too, had been
doing the show prior to to joining up on the
on the network, but we were very we were kind

(08:17):
of still figuring it out. You know. It wasn't really
until we got on that we had.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Some until we had somebody say that this could be
a real deal, you know what I mean, And so
like yeah, and again, I mean, I don't want it
to be like one of these I'm not trying to
give like an Oscar speech where they like start playing
the music and they're like, shut up, you know what
I mean. But like literally they were so helpful to us,
and thank god, you know out there no I just
like just go down the full Oscar speech and my

(08:44):
mom no, but like anyway, but seriously though, they were
very helpful. And then the other thing was is that
we had supportive fans that listen to the show. And like,
you know, guys, guys, guys, if you're listening and I've
been listening to the show, you have to understand we
are niche beings. We are very niche. You know, people

(09:06):
are fighting to get.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Music like a point zero zero four population right right.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Right, people are fighting to just get regular music listened
to. To talk about music at nauseum is very niche, right,
And like we thankfully you know here in town and
Nashville and Joe lived here too, and even in La
like people just come up to us and be like, hey,
I've listened to your show and I really like it.
And like there's still people this day that like will

(09:34):
come up to me. And like one of the weirdest
things was like people will come up and this is
a very unique like podcaster experience. I will have an
argument I made six weeks ago, and then some person
that I know or found out about our show will
be like, hey, I have a really big opinion about
this and I disagree about these words, and I'm like,

(09:56):
what did I say? You know, like that's kind of
and so it's just crazy to see.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
The w oh yeah, do you call it after you
after we have a show? Do you just like black out?
And you're like, I don't even remember.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Well, you know, we had different things, because one thing
that was nice about a relationship was that Joe with
the content guy, So I'd send him the video whatever,
you know, he'd make clips all this kind of stuff.
And then I just have to, like, for the purposes
of my brain and the way I was raised, I
can't usually like leave things unfinished if I'm the only

(10:31):
person that is stopping it, and it's like, you know,
not seven hours of work, you know what I mean?
So I usually go into like I'm editing, you know
what I mean, Like now I'm editing right right after
the show, But I do see what you mean. I mean, Joe,
like we've we've talked to each other for a long time,
but we put a lot of work in the show.
I mean, like we did those deep dives and like,

(10:53):
to be honest, I mean, to be honest, guys, it's
like some of our show will remain relevant and some
of our show will be a time capsule. I'm sure,
but a lot of it is week by week by week,
so it goes irrelevant. But I really am proud of Like,
and I'll ask you this, Joe, what you're kind of
most proud of with this is like, I'm really proud
of a lot of the stuff we did that I
feel like will hold up a lot. Like I think

(11:13):
it'd be really interesting later on if like you ever,
you know, think about it, Like let's go listen to
what we thought and people thought around the Grammys, you
know what I mean, Yeah, in twenty twenty, I think
that would be insanely interesting, like fifteen years later and
we're like talking about some artists that's like a Best
New Artist and be like we don't even know who
this is and be like, yeah, little did we know?

(11:34):
Or like another one I love that we did that.
I think we'll you know, hold the test of time,
or these deep dive episodes we did where we talked
about like the Grammys is one of my favorite and
I had some people reach out from the Grammys and
talk to me about that, and that was really interesting
and intriguing. And thanks to that person who knows the
who they are. And then on top of that, like
we had some great guests on the show that were

(11:55):
very nice to us, who still you know, have always
been like you know anything you know, you know like
and so like I will say from the bottom of
our heart, and so I don't have to say this
like fifty times you have to Oscar pull me off
with a long you know, Caine, Like, thank you to
everyone who has ever listened to our show, who's ever
showed it to somebody who's told us that you listen

(12:16):
to the show, who wanted to interact with us, We
thank you so much. We also thank all of our
guests that have ever been on the show and everything
they've done for us. I mean, they've gone out of
their way and their free time to help us with
so many things. It's amazing. And on top of that,
thanks to again Bobby and Mike for everything and believing
from us from the beginning about our show. And like

(12:39):
I mean, I told Joe multiple times, I was like,
we shouldn't even be doing this like like little anytime
Joe and I got in a disagreement about something where
we're just like, I don't know, man, we got to
keep the I'd be like, Joe, we shouldn't even be
here right now, Like we're you know what I mean,
Like we we're eternally blessed. So thank you. That's the
thank you portion of the show that we had to
get over the way. But Joe, do you want to

(13:00):
say any of the last thank you before we move
on to stuff.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
We've had a lot of amazing people support us the
whole way.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Can I can I make one special mention real quick? Yeah?
I want to think at the time unknown TikTok DJ,
but now big dude Veggie for all his help and support.
He was one of our original supporters of the show.
He made the music that you listened to on the
front end and the back end of this show. Did

(13:29):
it for at the time, you know, a deal for
us that we use in perpet to it was, you know,
he was so nice with his time and so gave
us a bunch of stuff. And so that's just Trevor.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
I'm so very much a dear friend to us, and
like he's so sweetie.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Baby trip You're you're with us in our hearts. Thank
you. You believed that us from the beginnings. But Joe, keep going.
I don't want to cut you off.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
No, you're good. That's amazing. Thank you. I also want
to thank Rachel Gutman. I do so much.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Guests on the show and also just you know, helping
us with everything legal in her kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
So she is incredible. She has She has helped us
out immensely.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
She has one of the biggest hearts and one of
the most caring minds of anyone I've known in the industry,
and especially you know the level of success she has
and will have in the future. So Rachel, thank you
so much.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Anyway, Well, the oscars are now closed, right and it's
time to free up your minds.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Oh god, where are we going?

Speaker 2 (14:31):
I want to take you on a journey too. I
don't know. I don't know what the panto.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
Zoom, I don't know. Well anyway, Joe, you know, like
I thought, I saw this, one of these I can
remain nameless. One of these, well, you know what name them.
One of our publications that I really love to read
is most news. Who does a mo news on Instagram
and he did a really it was really weird because

(15:00):
you know, like I'm thinking about the show, like what
are we doing as an end cap? What could we
talk about? And he had some polls and with his audience,
I think came to a really, really like interesting place,
which is something that we have echoed on the show
all the time, which I think you're you're gonna be like, wow,
we have talked about that a lot, which is can

(15:21):
you separate art from the artist? Is that a question
you can? And I know I was joking on the
last couple of shows. I was like, we got to
ask some hard questions here.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Right, Yeah, can you separate art from the artist? I
find it hard. I find it hard to do certain mediums.
I guess it's easier if you don't directly see the artist.
I had a heart, I mean personally like, uh, and

(15:55):
you know what, I'm just gonna it's the last episode.
Who cares, We're gonna say it. We're gonna say what
we're thinking. The Kanye stuff was horrible. I think yeah,
that was that was definitely that now got to a
point to where you know, like at a at a
level I've never been like a giant Kanye fan. I've

(16:17):
always admired his ability to create some pretty amazing songs,
but like I've always kind of thought that there was
like something deeply weird, especially like towards like later years
of like the way that he was pivoting with his
brand of just being this like force of like I'm
just gonna say shit, ye to say it absolutely, and

(16:40):
like it got to it got to a toxic point
before even heh like we cancel that, right, people.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Were you know, like yeah, like people were starting to
yeah the question, like and he even knew it. I mean,
that was the whole wine when he was Like people
missed the old Kanye. That's what they were talking about.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
You know what I mean, Yes, that was what was
going on that like when when the anti Semitism stuff
came out, I mean there was stuff that came out
before that too, right, Like he was what was it
the he was.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
With very radical people all the time.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
It was getting it was getting like so crazy, like
his inner circle his like whole thing, and like it
just it like truly.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Notably, a lot of people separated the art from the artists.
They were like Kanye, Well people did and like.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
People it, but I don't know if that's healthy and
certain and like I think it is, I don't know
if that's entirely.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
I don't think it is, because you're not perceiving like
kind of the person fully, you know, you're kind of
just picking and choosing in a lot of ways. But
it was like at that time and then the comments
of the anti Semitism came out, and you know, it
was clearly anti you know, Semitism, and everyone there was
no ifs about it, right, And so I'm glad you

(18:02):
mentioned Kanye first because he did a poll about this.
He said, uh, Kanye West, And he was doing these
polls where basically he asked like, what do you think
about them now?

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Right?

Speaker 1 (18:13):
And he said Kanye West, praise for Nazis and Hitler,
various jack assery thoughts. And the options were easy music,
still listen, still listen, but feel a bit guilty, did listen?
No more? Never liked his music, okay, which the way
it broke down.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
And this guy has I feel like I feel like
people the kind of guess with the majority.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Okay, yeah, so your options are still listening. I think
still listen for you.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
I think the majority voted still listening but feel guilty.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
You know what? You want to know something really funny
about it? Uh, fifty percent said, uh, never liked his music,
which I think is hilarious because even even Moe here says,
he goes, also, half of you never liked his music.
College dropout was iconic, which it's true, but like, yeah,
basically taking away the fifty percent that maybe just never

(19:07):
liked it, they go, and again there may be some
people that now are like, you know, after he did
all this was like I never liked it, and they
liked it, you know what I mean, Like they really
I think that's more what's what's going on? I think
so too, And I also think that's people forget how
many songs Kanye was actually on or a part of,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
In terms of like everything here, like uh, that we
have taking away the fifty percent for never liked his music,
you have nine percent still listen to Kanye, which I'm like, Okay,
that makes that makes sense, eleven percent still listen but
feel guilty, and thirty one percent don't listen anymore and

(19:50):
never will. So I thought that was very interesting to see,
is like you know, from this bigger poll, which I
mean you can get this is a quinnipiac, you know
what I mean, Like we're we're doing you know, kind
of some gorilla journalism here, but like, yeah, it's it's
insanely interesting to imagine, like, you know, the effect now

(20:10):
that Kanye has had, because Kanye, you know, was seen
by many as like the artiste of the generation and
now is you know not. So it's it's interesting to see.
Another one, if you want, is uh R Kelly, which
we talked about numerous times on the show because his

(20:32):
entire trial happened during the show. We talked about our
opinions there. Interesting about R Kelly was we talked about
on the show part of the reason he had such
trouble legally, other than the charges against him, was that
he has no money basically anymore, right because he he
he's a he can't read, he's a literate, and he

(20:53):
signed a bunch of contracts that were extremely predatory and
they bankrupted him basically, like he got none of his
like he signed away all his music.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Can he maybe this is horrible to ask, but can
he still not read?

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Or can he I don't know if he's learned to
read in prison, but I know that, like I think
going in he still couldn't read, just giving his background
and everything, like he just he he he, and the
kind of the stardom he still had. He didn't really
need to know right now. But uh, basically, yeah, So
people asked about R Kelly plain and simple, you know,

(21:30):
like what's going on with that and everything? And here
are the options for that? They said, I still listen,
uh separate art from the crime. I still listen. I
feel guilty about it. I did no longer and I
never liked the music. We kind of have another thing
that says like forty five percent never liked the music.
So we're going to take that one out because it's
just like, you know, people have different tastes, right, and again,

(21:51):
we kind of hid that thing where it's like maybe
some people that are like I never liked the music.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
I really only listened to like one R. Kelly song.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
You know, I liked a couple I believe I Can Fly.
I mean there was that there was like my favorite was,
h what is it?

Speaker 2 (22:07):
A R Kelly? I feel like also is kind of
out of our general.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Bump and grind. I mean, he was more of like
middle nineties, right, you know, and so like he and
he has a great voice. It's just you know, he's
done terrible, terrible things, you know that have been proven
po a law. And uh so here's how the breakdown
for that is. He goes ten percent, I still listen,
Separate art from Crime, I still listen, feel guilty about it,

(22:31):
twelve percent, and then thirty three percent I did no longer.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Which is which was what was the top one?

Speaker 1 (22:40):
I still listen and I separate art from crime is
ten percent, and then I still listen and feel guilty
about it as twelve percent, and then thirty three percent
is I did no longer. So they're they're done with it.
So people were like fans and they were over it.
You know what I mean, is Matt Healy on this list,
you know that's a really good one to actually talk about.

(23:03):
Is like you know, that's kind of broaching into some
territory there, and like especially you know what's weird about
him is like way he he kind of has that
thing that a lot of celebrities.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Sorry I need to I need to interject here. I
saw the funniest ship. People are calling Matt Healy the
the gen Z Morrissey.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Oh shit, dude, I think it's pretty what an insult, dude?

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Insane?

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah, No, I mean.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
It's like it's so crazy and and kind of not
not correct.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
This is one thing that I feel like you have
to admit from time to time, and you know, we
do a show, so it's just like, you know, awkward emit.
It's like I feel like I'm not ill. I'm not
equipped enough to give like opinions about him a lot,
you know, because I just not don't follow him enough,
you know. Yeah, And but like he does have that
thing going on that I know about where it's like

(23:59):
he's just got had this like volatility to him, and
like it feels like there's a group of people and
this happens all the time in like really kind of
controversial artist careers where a group of people were like,
you guys, just don't get it. It's like part of
the game, you know what I mean. Yeah, and then
some people are like, no, this is just wrong, you know.
And so he's got that around him, which not every

(24:21):
artist has, right. I don't think that's a part of
every artist career. I think some artists summon that into
their career, you know what, I mean.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, I think, like, I mean, I guess it's like
it's it's a lot different right from from R. Kelly
and Kanye's positioning, right of like it's he was kind
of he was kind of more like in the room
with other people talking and saying horrible shit, and then

(24:52):
he was like laughing and it was like it was
racist comments on like a podcast, and he was like
laughing along with them, which could have been internalized as like, oh,
he's just like feeling awkward about it, but instead of
saying that, he came out and said like nobody fucking cares,
which made it even worse because he's just disregarding at

(25:15):
that point, like the racist comments. And then it was
like after that, the whole festival that was in I
can't remember which country it was in a country he
kissed a band member and it was illegal there and
they shut the entire festival down for everybody. Wasn't just
the nineteen seventy five It was like the whole festival
got you because of it. Yeah, And so like there's

(25:39):
just like a lot of decision making that's a little
worrisome there, that honestly is very Kanye. It's very like
kind of Kanye.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah, And that's what I'm saying. And like, I feel
like one thing is is that you like, if anybody's
like losing their mind over that, just I'll brace it
to you, you know what I mean, Like it's it's one
of those things where you know, we see Kanye now
as the full picture with the anti Semitism and then
the other things that now we're like, man, this was
like we should have been looking out for this, you

(26:14):
know what I mean, Like this was definitely warning signs, right,
and we have that full picture now we have, you know,
all of that available to us. And I think if
I was going to give a parable here from the
Matt Heay thing, I think Joe, you're making more of
an argument of like he might be on like you know,
twenty ten, twenty eleven, twenty twelve Kanye where it's like

(26:34):
he's starting to do some shit and I don't know
about it, you know what I mean. Like, and that's
that's what I'm saying here, is like, don't get lost
in the you know, full picture of Kanye today. Think
about like Kanye's career path, but it's definitely not ill
familiar by any ways, you know, what I mean, Like
it's it's something that is brooding, which is interesting, right,

(26:56):
and like I'm not trying to do you know, if
I got some real nineteen seventy five fans out there,
like it's not just him. I think it's interesting to
be introspected about it in general, because how do we
have constructive change in the music industry, right when it
comes to these terrible things and these people that like
a lot of the time, you know, you go to
these like these stories and testimonies and everybody talks about

(27:20):
like these people and they go, oh, yeah, that was
openly known, like everybody knew that around them, Like everybody
understood that. Everybody knew that, right, And so like the
only way to do this is, like, you know, can
we examine what these artists kind of have in common?
And you know, maybe from Matt heally he won't go

(27:41):
all the way that direction, right, or maybe he will
have it. You know, it's not like he's locked on
a path, right. But it is interesting from a perspective
of like these cyclical kind of things that happen with
a lot of these artists who fall into controversy, right
and start kind of going down the controversial and more
controversial and even crazier controvers paths. It's like, where where's

(28:02):
our point where we're like, no, you need to reassess
right now, you know what I mean? And I think
what's weird about that is like when I first started
the show, which I guess we'll give you know, maybe
some things that you learn from the show, because you know,
one thing me and Joe have talked about a lot
is like from reading the show and the publications and stuff,
I like feel extremely well informed, you know what I mean,

(28:25):
Like more informed than I did in like college. I
just have like theories, you know what I mean. But like,
one thing that I feel like I've learned from it
is that there is definitely a line that people in
society have with this controversy, and it is very movable
and it is very dependent on the person in the situation,

(28:47):
you know what I mean. And if you did the
exact same things as like somebody else that's fallen into
controversy decades ago or even years later, you will have
a completely different you know path, right, some of them
maybe if were stopped ten minutes into their career because
it's egregious. And then some of them, were you know,

(29:10):
let go and just oh no, it's fine forever. So
that's one thing I feel like I've learned from the
show is like, there's definitely like a line that gets drawn.
And I, and we've talked about a lot on the
show too, is like I and I think, Joe, you
would probably support this. I don't think there is exceedingly

(29:30):
rare people that are fully canceled in this world. I
just do not prescribe to that like that. You know,
people are always like this person is canceled forever, and
I'm like, I'm sorry. But most of the time that's
you know.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
When it's like they come back and they make millions
of dollars on some other prospects.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
And you can draw that line of what canceled means
to you anywhere, you know what I mean. Is it
canceled if you know they've fallen from like you know,
being in the top of the charts and being like
a household name. But there's still you know, maybe doing
little shows in theaters across you know, the United States
or other than another country. Is that canceled? You know,

(30:12):
people are still giving them money, you know, for doing
this thing, right, And then like some people are saying
like canceled is just like you know, all total nothing debt,
you know what I mean, Like they're over no and
you know they have to work at like some menial
job outside of entertainment, you know, and they have to
be like and then it's like, oh man, like where

(30:32):
does it start? Where does it end? And I don't
prescribe to this whole like, oh well, you know, people
are canceled all the time. I'm like, I think that
you know, what they mean by canceled is a different thing.
I definitely think it's like you know, in life and
especially in the music industry, it's like play stupid games,
get stupid prizes, you know.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
But I do think, well, especially when it's like it's
so I think people think that their words, their actions
don't have any kind of innate value outside of themselves
sometimes and like it becomes like this, I don't know,
I think like it's it's it's crazy because it can

(31:16):
when you like take off as an artist, it can
like completely shift your perspective on life because there is
like there is this constant watch over you right like
of public and to some extent it can get to
you in your brain like it's it's it really fucks
with your head when all these people are like all

(31:39):
of a sudden showing interest right in your music, creative endeavors, whatever,
and then you get start asked like a bunch of
topics that like, especially if you're a megastar, like you
get people all these like it's kind of insane, Like Colin,
I don't know, I don't know if if you've like

(32:00):
like watched like Red Carpet shit, but like there's like
so many of these interviewees trying to catch celebrities into
some like gossipy story. Well of course because like it's
like oh if you yeah, oh if you do this,
Like it's almost like this drive to catch people that's

(32:21):
also unhealthy. But then there's the level of like, you know, Kanye,
where does yeah, like Kelly.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
I get what you mean, You're trying to play both
sides here, where it's like, you know, there's a level
of like what we call gotcha journalism, and then there's
like you know that kind of stuff where it's just
like we want you to say like one thing that
is going to get you in trouble.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
And I think the gotcha journalism is also to some extent, uh,
negatively impacting because it takes away from like the the actual.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
And that that's exactly what I was gonna say is
there is a line between gotcha journalism where it's kind
of facetious things are taking out of context all that
kind of stuff, which really does exist, and there's also
a line between that and just pure investigative journalism, you
know what I mean, like the idea of being like,
hey man, you said this crazy thing the other day,

(33:18):
can you like elaborate on that a little bit, you know,
And so like it's it's definitely like you're saying, it's
it's important to look both ways there where you have
to kind of see what's going on with the situation.
And the one of the things that I will say
as like someone that does production stuff has done production stuff.

(33:40):
It's just like, you know, I feel like there's there's
a lot of people that get, you know, things from
how things are edited all that kind of stuff at
the same time, and I think there is credit to
that at the same time, but I also think I
also think we almost we kind of have this like

(34:01):
meta argument going on a lot with celebrity culture where
something that's like clearly shown it's one shot. You know,
it is before you know Ai has even really taken
off to be like completely like you know, fooling people
one hundred percent of the time. Right, Like people have
this like rationale where they see their celebrity and they

(34:23):
just one they don't care and ignore it, or two,
which I think is way worse, is they'll have like
the full context of something and they'll be like, you
guys just don't understand, Like you don't understand what he's
talking about. I'm like, we completely understand what he's talking about.
That was a full one shot clip of him explaining
what he's talking about. Right. So, and that's not just
in reference to Kanye, I just mean like in general

(34:44):
in life. And so I've seen a lot of like
people are like, you don't know about production tricks, and
I'm almost like, yeah, that's that's the problem. It's like
you don't know about production tricks. It's like I cannot
change you know, everything about them as a person in
a clip. Right. It's like, you know, if there's something weird,
if there's something out an you know, it's probably you know,

(35:05):
use your best judgment here. But if you're you know,
if you got your gut feeling something's weird and something's wrong.
It's like, yeah, maybe we need to examine it. Yeah,
we need to examine that.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
So like side note, Colin, I just got your d
M from the Hard Times.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
And it's what Joe and I do all the time.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
But we interviewed Beck but it turned out to be
Michael Sarah in a big hat.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Welcome back to what I was talking about that me
and Joe are niche. But yeah, it's that's a good ship.
So basically, one thing I think would be interesting to
talk about Joe is we're here now. You know, we're
really you know, we're kind of we're still in the
beginning of our careers in some ways, but you know,

(35:51):
we're settled right in a lot of ways.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
I don't you know, it's not like I don't know
if settled, Well, we're not.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
We're not.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm constantly anxiety when it comes to me.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
Well that's true, but it's like, you know, your ball
of anxiety is in that field. It's not like you're
like I could be a label guy, right, you know
what I mean? You you know, like, and that's the
one thing I will give advice for is like if
you're interested in this kind of stuff, it's like pick
a zone and then just play with the zone until
you're like, I don't like this part, I like this part,
I don't like this part, and then go there. So

(36:26):
me and Joe are in our zones. Let's say that.
And one thing I'd be interested to say is like, Joe,
what do you feel like? What do you like? You know?
As a I feel like this is not said a
lot on music business shows, so maybe it would be
interesting for our fans. Is, uh, how do you feel
you are now, like in terms of your career, where

(36:46):
you're going? What do you want to do? That kind
of stuff I can go first. Also, this is a
lot of stuff, you know, because it's like, you know,
I'm just kind of tired. Everybody in their interviews for
stuff like that with music business is like I'm on
the way up. Maybe this is all I'm doing. Yeah,
I'm making them three million dollars tomorrow because of this idea.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Not making three million dollars in the music And it's
just like I'm just gonna say right now.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
And then all of them are like, you know, that
was part of the full plan, baby, Like that was
just even though we lost six million dollars, that was
part of the three million dollars, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeah, I think like.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
I think it'd be interesting to talk about. Yeah, if
you want me to go first, that's fine too. And
you can say as much or as little as you want.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
No, I'm down. I'm down to answer. I think like. So,
here's the thing, Like, honestly, a lot of the change
for me has been because of the move from Nashville
to Los Angeles in a lot of in a lot
of ways. And what's crazy, I mean the culture. First off,
I want to just like explain kind of the culture

(37:49):
difference because it was, like, it's very scary when you
first move here. It's very well in your face. It's
like there's so many people, and it's it gets it's
the niceness of like Nashville, where it's like Nashville is
a big town that feels like a small town. Right,

(38:09):
It's like you run into people everywhere, you like have
your like network of friends. There's a downside to that too, Right,
where like Nashville can get very very clique, it can exclude,
it can exclude people pretty much like off the basis
of jealousy or whatever. It could be like a lot

(38:30):
of a lot of people will exclude because they're doing
better outside of Nashville, which is which is like a
weird thing.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Another thing I will say is like, you know, there's
kind of like you know, you're you're in your you're
in your zone. The music industry is a small industry
in itself. Everybody says that, but in Nashville it's like
incredibly small. So it's a little weird because it's like
I feel like in more major cities it's like, Okay,
I did my job, I'm home. Now, you know, I'm
gonna go to the grocery store. And it's weird now

(39:00):
for me, especially in my position, because it's like I
literally will run into somebody that I might know at
the grocery store, like you know what I mean, like
which is really straight. And then and then like my
girlfriend looks at and they're like, how do you know
this person? And I'm like, like we met during this
singer songwriter like get together thing. And so that is
a whole thing with Nashville too. But anyway, I didn't

(39:20):
want to get off your thing with that, So you
get you went to La and you, what's what's going
on with LA? How do you feel LA is different
than that? So we have small town Nashville and then LA.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Well, I think like the the main thing about LA
that especially when you're working in creative Like first off,
everybody here is working in a creative field pretty much true.
Like you go to a grocery store and like some
dude is like the producer of like some crazy show
of like blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
He's working on a field. Degree.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, like everybody is like doing shit and like to
some level that's like so rewarding and like so like
oh sweet, I'm like finding like my people. On like
another level is like a bit of like there's a
networking attitude when you walk into rooms here of like

(40:09):
I if you're going to a place and you're like,
I want to make friends tonight, I don't want to
make I don't want to make coworkers. It gets to
be very hard in the music industry because everybody is
like working constantly here to where it's like it's hard
to talk about anything else, you know. But I think
like a lot of the grounded people figure out a

(40:31):
way to get like get around that and to like
actually be normal, you know. So there's like a little
bit of like an adjustment there, and like there's a
lot of people and you can you can be picky
with your friends here, like you don't have to be
friends with like the first person you meet, and sometimes
you might not want to do that because it is
like you know, it's it's there's so many people like

(40:56):
I can't I can't like say that.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
I mean, that's interesting. I didn't think about that. Like
it's the honest where it's like you want to form
a relationship with every single person that you meat, which
is also kind of universally true, but like in Nashville,
it's even more because people feel that, you know, one
or two times, it's like, yeah, man, I will see

(41:20):
you again. In La, there's actually a chance you will
never see this person again.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Yes, people are very open to that in Nashville. People
in LA are very closed in some ways. You have
to like.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Break really interesting.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
You have to break through the wall a little bit.
There's like an La wall. It's this It's New York
is similar in a lot of ways to where it's
like you break the.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
New York column.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, but you once you break through, like you're you're
You're good. You know, like it's like with any other place,
right It's just like it's just a different way that
people live, and it's with any major cities kind of
like that. It's not just like La New York whatever.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
So do you feel like you've broken through the wall?

Speaker 2 (42:01):
I think I have. I think I'm not like fully
like I would love to be. I think like right
now I'm getting booked out so much, which is such
a blessing. It's like so amazing. I've I've I will say,
like I've been getting booked out way more here than

(42:23):
I had in Nashville. It's it's almost like night and day.
It's kind of crazy.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
There's so much more because it's yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
There's there's a lot of there's a lot more. There's
a lot of demand right now, especially in the music space,
there is people are willing to take chances on you
for a project here because it's less expensive than if
you were filming in Nashville. To be honest, really, you

(42:52):
think so. You think it's less it's less expensive for
the for the actual production costs here, like when it
comes to hiring people, it's more expensive, but like okay,
for a production costs. It's cheaper here, so.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
You think the infrastructure is there, which then like and
there's healthy competition, so then your production costs are lower
because it's like, well there's like fifteen other camera places,
so it's like we could run a camera from one,
so we have the competitive prices exactly.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
Yeah, okay, and once you like, yeah, that's really interesting.
And my experience is not one to one with anybody else, right,
Like this is my experience. I'm lucky enough to have
already had connections here before moving here. I think that
that's key. And now or La is a great place
to just pop in and visit every couple of months

(43:42):
as an artist, you know, like it's you don't have
to live here, you can just put as.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
An industry person, it's great to visit.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
Just yeah, and just to like just to see people
and like bake friends and like you can do that.
It's it's it's a major city. It's like pretty great
in that respect. I think in terms of my grand career,
like I've I've been having like a lot of internal

(44:09):
debate of like am I cut out to do this
job in my like forties in fifties, you know, it's
like I eventually am going to have to pivot to
something you know that's like less physically taxing.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
We oh, yeah, that makes sense. Do you think you
would potentially go more towards like mentoring and having people
work underneath you or do you think you would change
to side.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
I actually would love I would love to mentor. I
don't know if I am really cut out for it,
but I do think like I have some some knowledge
of how to do stuff, right.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
I mean you're getting to like six seven years in
your career, you know what I mean? It like it
makes sense, like and then like you would have that
person to maybe lean on where it's like hey man,
like you know you work with me, why don't you
hold all this you know, like I've been I'm thinking
of your like fifty right, Like yeah, like why don't
you hold all this heavy stuff? And I'll just direct
or something, you know what I mean? Like and uh so,

(45:16):
like that's one option, But do you think like maybe
like kind of a pivot would also be it? Like yeah,
I don't I don't know marketing kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
I mean, I definitely want to be I definitely want
to do content. I think for the foreseeable future, Like
I love it so much and it's been very rewarding.
Like I've been since moving. I've been working on projects
and with artists that I have admired. I've listened to
their music like when I was a teenager. Like I like,

(45:45):
it's gotten to this point of like, oh wow, it
feels like I'm like actually in the industry now of
like where before I was kind of like, you know,
I'm not people who you guys all know this. I'm
not a country music fan. I'm just not. And I
worked in country music for a long time. I did

(46:06):
not like country music. I think one of the reasons
I worked well in country music was because I wasn't
a fan of like a life so true, yeah insane,
And I think, like I always around people, and it's.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
So nice when you can remove yourself from that situation.
Like people do that to me all the time. They're like,
oh my god, I'm just gonna make up names. It's
like that's Bobby Turnsdale and I'm like, that's cool. It
seems like a nice guy.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
And Bobby Turnstyle.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Turnsdale and they'd be like he wrote the nineteen ninety
seven hit song for Riba and then he wrote a
Shania Twain song, and then they always have this, they
always go like he wrote Riba Shania Twain, and then
he wrote a Shakira song anyway Hello, and then he
also wrote all of this Christian music and you're like,
all right, it was a weird path, but that's fine.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
It's a wild ride, let me tell you.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
But yeah, I mean, well good, Yeah, I think definitely
I agree with your point about especially that it's just
like if you were from Nashville's perspective, and I have
hit on this from the show. Is I remember one
of the best advice I've ever got in college is
you'll end up in five cities. You know what I mean.
You could be like, if you want to be like industry, industry, like,

(47:22):
you could go regionally anywhere right basically and do it right.
Like it's like there are musicians everywhere, but the industry
is in one of these five places. And the one
of the five places is we talked about two Nashville,
La Joe mentioned a third, New York. The other two
are Austin, Austin, Texas, and Miami, Florida because that is

(47:46):
the capital of Latin music and so and also just
world music in general. But basically that's kind of where
the industry is, so I guess I can go into
my kind of portion of it. It's like I'm further
in my career. When I first got out of college,
I was mixing this little place, which one of the

(48:07):
first people that, uh, you know was really some of
our first listeners that were really into the show and
message me about it were my coworkers from here, which
is from Wildhorse Saloon, which will soon be rebranded to
Hurricanes by Luke Combs. Oh whatever, isn't that isn't that
funny strategy? But I'm fine with Luke Combs people. It's
just more of like the one thing I've been talking

(48:28):
to people around town about this is I really like
that Wildhorse had like nothing to do with a particular artist.
It was just a place which I thought was interesting.
And there's no place really on Broadway in Second Avenue
that's like that as much. That's that big. But anyway,
those guys down there were like my first or first
real listeners on this show, so shout out to them.

(48:48):
But that's after I got out of college, or really
I was in college. I remember I was doing like
audio maintenance class, and I had to be like, hey man,
I gotta leave. I got a gig, and uh so
I'd go down there and i'd mix country music. And
I think that's why it was easy, because it was
just like you know, I knew and as everyone who's
ever listened to our music recommendations on the show knows,

(49:11):
I would just listen to like old kind of music
all the time, which people forget is like Nashville, compared
to a lot of pop stuff, is really the home
of like acoustic music, like having a guitar, having a
drum kit, having a bass on state, like these are
things that don't pop up like a lot of the time.
A lot of these pop artists you could get away

(49:33):
with having them in tracks. So like that's the nice
part about coming up in this town is that, like
you get experienced with a lot of like acoustic music.
I'm sure some people would have a pros and cons of, like, well,
you don't get used to tracks and all that stuff,
and I go, well, you get used to tracks because
there's people, there's artists with tracks. But anyway, the point
is is that's where I got my chops. Did that

(49:55):
for a while decided to go to Claire, which loved
the company. I knew them from like you know, basically
forever since I started my career as they're the biggest
audi now biggest live audio company in the world, and
went there. We already went through twenty nineteen, nothing could
go wrong, and like you know, I came back to

(50:16):
Claire after the pandemic after working a bunch of wacky jobs,
and you know, I started out there at Claire in
twenty nineteen and I did just like building racks, the
effects racks for things RFIM kind of basics of that,
and just tried to make like you know, I've and
one thing that I feel like sometimes is shot down

(50:37):
a lot in this industry and in other industries in general,
is I've just always tried to be a student. There
was always something I'd be like, I'll just do it.
I'll just learn what it is and I'll do it right.
Not to be like, don't get yourself in a bad
situations where you're like doing stuff that's like not rewarding
or helpful or even remotely interesting to you. It's like
more of like if there's something and you're like, oh,

(50:59):
there's a need there, and I think it would be
interesting to learn about it and make the days go
a little bit faster. I would encourage you to do it.
So like that's what I started doing at claire Is.
I just started like learning that. Like first I was
hired just to check stuff in. Then I was like,
you know, they're like, you're gonna build racks eventually, And
I built the racks and then there was RFI AM
and I was like, how does this work? I've never learned.

(51:21):
They never taught us in college how to coordinate RF
frequencies and how I ams work and stuff like that.
And they took me under my wing there and then
I learned like a little bit of calm and then
like you'd learn how the industry works, like the people
who come in, like what the setup is for a
live show, what they deal with the same sorts of faces.
Like there's a lot of like kind of absorbed learning. There.

(51:44):
Pandemic happens. I come back, it is insane, like there
is Well, actually, I say I got then my before
I started back from the pandemic, I got a promotion
to learn amplifiers because that was another thing we never
learned in college, was how ample fires work. And those
are what powers the speakers and all that kind of
stuff like that you hear all through the venue. So

(52:06):
I started doing that. Then we lost my job because
of the furlough and everything, which Claire was extremely nice
kept all our benefits there. Everything was great, and then
I moments noticed, like when Claire was like, can you
come back? I was like yes, And I funny enough
even then, I was like, do you want me tomorrow?
And They're like, why don't you give it two weeks
to your current job that you're at, And I was like, yeah,
I should probably do that, right. That's like how ready

(52:28):
I was to go back and came back there. Immediately
everything was on fire because everybody wanted to go on
tour all this stuff, and then all these people, which
I've talked about a lot on the show, just weren't
going to come back because I got regular jobs to survive.
I was, you know, twenty one twenty two, so it
was boho, you know what I mean. It was like

(52:49):
just me and my girlfriend at the time. So it
was just like I didn't, you know, I didn't have
mouths to feat or whatever, so I could be boho
in my life. I didn't have a mortgage. So I
came back and I was one of the few, and
I just really started trying to take charge and just
be like, oh my god, how do we do this?
What do we do here? What do we do there?
And you know, I'm very blessed is Claire really absorbed

(53:11):
that in my life. They really went, you know, and
we're like, oh my god, Colin, like keep doing that.
We want to support you in doing that. And then
I just started forming relationships with different roadies. And it
was weird because after a while I just started like
memorizing things where it would just be like people would
be building rigs that I remember building before, and I go, hey,

(53:34):
this is weird. Unplug this, replug this, and they're like
why will we and they want that And that's when
I remember having a moment of going, oh my god,
I think I'm like actually in this, you know what
I mean, Like I'm in the industry, you know what
I mean. It's like I remember stuff about special little
artist things from like five months ago, six months ago.
I'm in you know, as funny as that is, but

(53:55):
that's really what it was. So Claire really enabled me
to do that, and then I formed all these relationships,
and then I just kind of started trying to help
people around me that I feel like could help from
information that I knew, or if I didn't know it,
we would learn together, which obviously there was a lot
I did not know because I was only like three

(54:17):
or four years into my or three years into my
clear career. So I was like, I don't know about this,
Let's look at this. I don't know about this, Let's
look at this. And then I would start calling people,
I'd call other places, and then we just figure all
this information together. And then they eventually, you know, kind
of were like saw my role as that it's just
the guy would just kind of mess himself into things,

(54:38):
you know, and they rewarded that and they give me
a promotion, and now I do quality control for that office,
and it's really interesting because now I get to work
with all the departments that are above it. I've mainly
worked in one sector, so I you know, now I've
like I'm almost close to the trifecta of running every
department at least for like a couple of days. I mean,

(55:00):
so that that's very exciting to me because now I
feel like I could have the full picture and there's
just ways where like I literally have a whiteboard next
to my desk where I'm like, how can I make
these people's and everybody's lives better and easier and stuff
like that. So I'll just jot stuff down. I'll be like,
what have we had this? What have we had this?
What have we had this? And then I'll just go
through them one by one, and then you know, clients

(55:22):
will call and say, hey, Colin and think you know
about this? Can you help me? And I'll be like sure,
And it's just really it's just really weird now because
it just feels really entrenched, you know. And again I'm like,
I'm very in audio, but I'm also if you guys know,
and some of the other people who listen to show
a lot are solid members. If I want to see
three here in town have got me really connected with

(55:44):
a lot of the other people in the industry here.
I do a lot of stuff, so like I try
to maintain being a student there where I'm like, hey, man,
you do like artists services at a label? What the
hell does that mean? And like just you know, that's
kind of what it's like, and Joe knows that's what
I'm like I'll just be like, tell me about your job,
and like, you know everybody, you never do that to

(56:05):
anybody else. Tell me what accounting's like. You're like, God,
I don't want to know, but Colin's over here, like
I want to know, you know, like and give me
those ones and zeros. But yeah, that's where I am,
you know, And I'm just there's so much in a
good way. There's so much work to be done that

(56:25):
I feel like is all positive. It's just helping people
that I generally, like, you know, I'm not gonna lie
like you know some people. It's impossible to like everybody
in this industry, right, and so like I generally help
people all the time, no matter who or what they are,
even if I don't like them, And then I learned
something from it, and then I get to take that

(56:46):
along with my other kind of duties and just try
to you know, kind of become this lexicon of jack
of all trades of things. And I literally couldn't ask
for anything more because at the end of the day,
you know, I kept saying, I keep being a student.
That's what being a student is. It's being a jack
of all trades. Like literally, it's like you know, math,
you know reading, you know sign like these are a
lot of different unrelated skills, you know what I mean.

(57:09):
Like that's kind of what it is is that I
get to just continue that all the time. I mean,
Joe and I like have talked about it a lot.
It's like I've debated. I'm like, maybe I'll come to
LA maybe I'll go to New York, you know, something
like that. But I think that for me, it all
comes down to the personal relationships. And I don't have,

(57:29):
you know, something life wise that's making me want to
move there, and I don't have a desire to leave
my current thing. So I really can't say nothing, you
know better about it. It's just like I feel like
I've fallen into a really good thing. And I'm sure
this is the most annoying conversation for some of you
that are maybe frustrated in the industry, you know, and

(57:50):
I've talked to a lot of you about it, But
I swear to God these places exist. And so if
you're like, you know, thinking about it, you're even like,
you know, it can be as simple as like I
just need another job in the field of music that
is related to what I do now like let's say
you do marketing or something and you're like, I need
to find another marketing. It can be that simple, or

(58:12):
you know, for some people it can be as like dramatic,
as like, hey, you know, I don't know that much
about production, or I don't know that much about booking,
you know what I mean, Like that kind of stuff
where it's like you can take leaps in this industry
and they respect it. And that's kind of what I
was going to say at the end of the story,
is through all this hooplah and hours and different stuff,

(58:32):
the thing that keeps me motivated was honestly the pandemic,
because at one point I was a little frustrated because
I just felt like I was like going up a
hill that I didn't know why I was going up
the hill. I kind of lost my way for a
better lack of understanding, you know what I mean, Like
I didn't know kind of lost you know, why I
was in this in the first place, because you know,

(58:53):
college it's all about this springboard into your career. And
then I felt like I got there and I was
like what am I doing? You know what I mean,
Like why do I do this? And the only way
that I'd learned it is by losing it, and that
was for me very monumental in like my entire path
is that when I lost my job in the pandemic.

(59:15):
You know, at first, actually have a joke with the
Rodies that first like month or two, like if obviously
you weren't dealing with the perils. And the dread of
COVID was wonderful, Like it was literally like, we're getting
paid more money than we ever have gotten paid, right,
and I get to do anything I want, you know
what I mean, Like it's awesome, right, And then I

(59:36):
found you know, as time went on and the money
kind of dried up and everything like that, I was like, Okay,
I need to get a job again. And I was like, well,
you know, and I'm very tenacious, as you could probably
tell from this whole conversation, I'll just get involved with things,
to get involved with things, and you know, all this
kind of stuff. And so I started and I was like,
I'm going to get a job. And I got a job.

(59:58):
When my first job out of there, I worked at
FedEx fixing computers. And at the time, I was like,
I like computers, and you think you do, and like
I like computers. That was a paul Off Tomkins jack.
But I like computers, and like, I literally was like,
got in there, and I still like computers. I love computers.

(01:00:20):
Joe will call me about computers, and I love it,
you know what I mean? Yeah, And so I got
in there and I hated computers like I hated computers.
Why not because I hate computers because of what I
had to deal with. You know, I was on an
assembly line fixing computers. They said you had to fix
twenty six a day, all this stuff. I was with

(01:00:42):
everybody that wanted not to be there. Every single person
hated every moment of it. And it came to my
reality that for forty hours a week, I hate this, right,
And I'm sure some of you are like, wow, Colin,
that's one job. Then I went to another job that
was very wacky and I won't get into it, but's

(01:01:06):
just say it involved cleaning animal cages. So I'm cleaning
animal cages, right, And I'm there, and I'm with these
people that are extremely passionate about the animals, all these
cue and I'm passionate about the animals because I care
about animals and stuff, and I love it and there's
some people that are not passionate about it and they

(01:01:27):
hate it. They hate every day, and that just infiltrates everything. Right.
Then I came back to Claire, and Claire was like
everybody there decided that they like music enough to deal
with this ship. And what I mean is like the

(01:01:49):
late night phone calls, the craziness of what's going on
in the world, like you know, the spot namy of gear,
all these different things, like it's crazy or whatever, but
every single person loves it to the t, just absolutely
loves it. And I that's when I figured out. I
was like, oh my god, there's nothing like this, Like

(01:02:14):
they're there. This kind of energy only exists in a
place where everybody loves the thing they you know, like
the passion, the central idea that's going through this thing.
And this doesn't happen everywhere, you know. I'm sure it
happens in other places all the time, but when your
passion is music, it can only happen in a couple
of plass right, So it's not it's not you're going

(01:02:36):
into you know, J. C. Penny and being like you
guys like rock music, you know, like but like that no, right,
and so like kids like rock music. Yeah, right, so
this is my final I guess gen Z thing right
here is like, you know, the passion helps. And one
of the thing things it took a long time for

(01:02:59):
me to kind of realize the full severity of this quote.
One of the people one of the things people tell
you all the time in the music industry and even
the media industry is you better love it, right, Like,
you better love it. And usually it's kind of like
a downer, right, it's like you better love the long hours,
the hard work, all that stuff. You better love this
industry to do it. And it's actually the opposite. It's

(01:03:22):
a it's a positive of the situation. It's you better
love it because everybody else kind of does, you know
what I mean, And if they don't, then they get out,
you know, And that's just kind of how it works.
But like, I just never found other field. Yeah, I've
just never found any other field. I'm sure if I
went to film and I was really passionate about it,

(01:03:42):
you know, I would feel the same way. But like
that's just kind of the creative thing about music.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
So yeah, well I think we're at the end of
the journey here.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Yeah, why didn't you listen more, guys.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Yeah, what the heck this is again? This is your fault.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Joe did say that four episodes ago. Anyway, Yeah, so
Oscar moment again, everybody? What did I do? If you
guys have been listening for a long time. Every episode,
what I like to end with with this? I go, guys,
thank you for listening, See you next time. You know,
That's what I say. I guess this is what we're
gonna have to do. You know, we don't know where

(01:04:21):
our lives are going. We told you where it is now,
so it'll be interesting for us to listen later, you know,
ten years, fifteen years or now. But thank you guys
for listening, and we'll see you next time.