August 30, 2023 • 61 mins
What’s going on with Scooter Braun? Why has Social Media changed and how is it cyclical? Can we stop putting question marks? This and more on the Biztape?
Socials:
Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Threads, TikTok: @TheBiztape
Email: thebiztapepodcast@gmail.com
Sources:
Scooter Braun:
https://www.vox.com/culture/23843489/scooter-braun-clients-leaving-justin-bieber
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What is going on with Scooter or bron and as
social media dead? You're listening to what biz Tape.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to the biz Tape. You're all Things Music, business
and media podcast. I'm your host, Colin McKay with my
lovely co host Coast to Coast Joseph Wizileski joining me again.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Thank you, thank you, hold your applause. I'm here. All
is well. I've actually gotten a full night sleep.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I was about to be like the way you're talking,
I'm about to be like, blink twice if you need help,
but I'm like, I can't even see you if you're blinking.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So yeah, it's actually I'm in a hostage situation. But
you can never miss the podcast. We have to come
on the podcast every week.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
The hostage.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
You're saying that out loud, it sounds that's not great,
but but you know what, we're gonna keep going with it.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Let's just keep going, Colin.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
How is your how's your week going? What's new with you?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Man, very busy. Everything's on fire. Everything's also getting a
new round of gear. You know how it is.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
But hell, yeah nothing.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
People always think that summertime is like the slow time,
but it's always horrible.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, we in my side, on the live side, like
there's actually a running joke in my business now where
especially like among the people I work with day to day,
where there used to be a slow season and there's
not a slow season anymore, like ever since the pandemic.
And I've said it on the show, like literally we
used to have like summer and then fall was like
(01:51):
kind of you know, like you know, active, and then
like winter like late November, late like or early December,
they're kind to be nothing, and then like some pop
up Christmas stuff which is all of a sudden appear,
and then there'd be a crazy thing in New Year's
and then January February would be like dead and then
then you start the whole thing over. But like now
(02:11):
it's just all the time, we're just going on cylinders here.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
So do you think that is due to low staffing
or do you think that it's just the demand.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Is I think it's the demand.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
It's honestly, the demand for this level of gear, even
on a small scale, is astronomically bigger than it used
to be. And I think it's like twofold. I think
that it's on top of you know, you just have
people that are still on the pandemic, like we've lost
(02:45):
this time. We need to recoup this time, you know
what I mean that we lost. I think there's also
just a number of smaller artists and smaller factions that,
due to a lot of these venues closing out, literally
just have to provide their own gear, like like stuff
that used to be just commonplace at these venues.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
It's like, yeah, we don't have it.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
We just got like a stage in the corner over
there with like a Macie mix and you're like, no,
we're not doing a show on a you know, eight
channel Mackie mixer, you know what I mean. So it's like,
I think it's a combination of both. I mean, so
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I think
there's a lot of room for positive growth and positive
(03:26):
kind of like you know, resource allocation where we can
keep using these kind of things over and over and
over again and not have to rebuild or retool like
everything every three seconds. But at the same time, it
is a lot because I think we're in the very
beginning stage of that and live touring anyway, not to
go on a complete tangent about that, Joe, I don't
know what do you want to start or do you
(03:48):
want me to start?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Or yeah, I'll start this time. I guess Okay, Oh,
it's a little bit of a it's a little bit
of an odd one.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yes, you did preface that before we started, So I'm
very intrigued where we're this.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, I think this is like just kind of a
topic that both of us have been like interested in.
And I think the more painting, like the more that
like social media has like gone on, I think the
more that this is becoming more of an argument more
so than it was in the past. And what I
(04:22):
mean by that is The Atlantic actually came out with
an article last year and it's called the Age of
Social Media is Ending by Ian Bogust, and basically Ian
talked about kind of the history of social media and
how it's kind of shaped over the years and like
where it's at currently, I guess not currently like last
(04:46):
year current, right, But funny enough, there's actually a Verge
article that like came out recently in April that also
is saying social media is doomed to die. So it's
it's very much still in the conversation that people are
talking about. And basically what Ian points out in this
(05:07):
article is that when social media was created, it was
created to connect you to real people in your everyday life.
It was friends focused. It wasn't brand focused or anything else.
It was just like, oh, these are the people in
my city, in my region. This is how I can
(05:30):
meet other people or keep up with people I already know, right,
And like the biggest thing to that was like Facebook
and the one before Facebook that we will will never
say friends. No, no, it actually it actually went all
the way back to a flicker as well, like high
(05:52):
five and Flicker, and like, it's actually a very very
interesting article and it's free to read. Everybody should take
a look at it because I think it's written really well.
And I don't know if I totally agree with his
the way he left off the article, but I do
think like, for the most part, he does a great
(06:12):
job of like keeping everything together right and like showcasing
like this argument. But basically what he's saying is like, yeah,
so the the beginning of social media, it was all
friends based. It was very personal. Then it started to
dive diverge once that once like these Silicon Valley institutions
(06:35):
basically found out that like, oh, our business model is
to keep people on these pages. So at that point
they turned it into Okay, we're going to try to
push content that is engaging to people. So it's not
just your friends that you're seeing on these pages. It's
like other media and like other pages, and like you're
starting to see like bigger pages and like rigger creators
(06:59):
as they come to be. And that's where social media
turns into or uh, I guess yeah, social media turns
into social media. Basically it was social networking and then
it turned out.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I was gonna say, the term networking seems more applicable
here where you're like, oh, this is social media, like
you know, like you're saying it's people I know in
real life or you know, maybe people that live in
another city that I know in real life. And then
it like slowly was like.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Well, do you.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Know, have a combined interest in something? You guys should
all look at this together because you guys all have
a combined interest, which like that is interesting to think about.
It's like I remember getting on the internet probably in
like middle school, and it was specifically just like this
is just so you can talk to like yeah, Facebook,
(07:52):
so like this is just so you can talk to
the other people you know in real life. And it
is really funny because like in a lot of ways,
well that's almost designed.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Let's be real, we all got.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
On mobsters and but like for real though, like it
was it was ghost to be like, oh, let me
go connect with these people I.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Don't know on the internet. Like it was a not.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
A dumb question. But what does ghost mean.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Oh, Joseph, it's just you know, it's like socially unpopular,
like not you know, like that's probably I.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Said it's like a hip new gen Z term.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Nope, it's actually really old and probably proves how Colin
is technically in the top of gen Z. But probably
it's closer to somehow a gen X person. I don't
know either. Anyway, The point is is that I like
I remember back then the point was, like you were,
this is an extension of your social being. It's not
(08:56):
a place to meet people. It's a place to extend
what you already.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Have, yes, one hundred percent. Yeah, And like what's what's
kind of funny is like the way that social media
is born is kind of in Ian's argument here is
kind of sociopathic in a way. It's it's it's not
They didn't come right out and say like, oh, this
(09:23):
is now turning into like media companies, right, They like
kind of like phrased it as like a web two
point zero revolution in user generated content, and he goes
on offering easy to use, easily adopted tools on websites
and then mobile apps, and basically because of how popular
(09:45):
these sites became, they started engulfing the entirety of the Internet,
like to where you are not going on the Internet
to look at different websites anymore, right, even to today,
like I think it was like crazy statistic it's like
ninety six percent of people going on the Internet go
(10:05):
to the same four sights or something and they're all
social media sites. Yep, you know. So it's like because
of that, a lot of like Silicon Vallee was like
seeing that this was becoming successful and grabbing a lot
of attention, and so these companies started popping up all
over the place. They were called S and S companies.
(10:27):
But then in the community there was even a joke
acronym called YASN, which stands for yet another social network,
because pretty much every company was trying to start a
new social network situation. It was like that in apps,
like everyone was trying to get an app going, which
kind of like sparked the fire for that as well.
(10:50):
But he goes on and like he kind of starts
talking about like Facebook's rise and fall and how because
it's it's kind of full changed, It's it's kind of
turned its back on on its original use. It's it's
kind of floundered recently, especially with its use in the
metaverse and how people just like aren't using Facebook as
(11:13):
much as they used to be. It's like very much
like I wouldn't say it's a dying site, but it's
it's not stagnating the best. Yeah, it's stagnating, and like,
to be honest, even like, uh, it's still very early days,
but even Threads is kind of showing that well, you know,
like almost has it but not quite.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well what's hit on for a second, like that whole
idea of Facebook VR and all that kind of stuff,
Because honestly, in the way that people found that very
cringey and very you know, out of touch, I would say,
like one of my main criticism for it is that
it felt out of time and what I mean by
(11:59):
that is like kind of going back to what I
was saying earlier. If you went to like A two
thousand and six, a two thousand and seven and we're like, hey,
you know, you can connect with all these people you
know in real life, like with virtual reality and see
them and interact. That seems like in the actual I
(12:21):
almost want to say belief system of the Internet, like
where that was the design of the products was to
extend what you already have, and for a lot of
people now like the Internet is so you know, tailored
to escaping from what you have and what's around you
and how you're perceived that it it's it became so
(12:43):
such an antiquated idea for Facebook to go, we want
you to connect to real life again more virtually, and
everyone was like, that's freaking crazy. But I really do
believe if you took this idea twenty years earlier, people would.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Have jumped on that.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
It's the same thing, you know, the same that you know,
like we were joking about Farmville, but like that's kind
of what it was like where it's like, oh, you
go visit somebody else's farm, you can see what's up
in the same way that like aim was a big thing,
you know what I mean, where you can just talk
to everybody all the time, no matter what. But I
think that on the whole, the Internet has changed so
(13:21):
much from being an extension of your reality as opposed
to now where it's a escape from reality, like it's
an escape from what's around you, and it's you know,
it's weird because it's a veil of like collectivism, like oh,
we're all viewing this together, we're all human, but because
(13:42):
of like the flock kind of effect and the aminitity here,
like it just creates this dehumanizing thing where nothing feels
real anymore, you know. Anyway, I don't know why I
just went on that succession kind of speech, but keep going.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
No, I mean that's good. That's it's the new season
of succession right there. But yeah, it's it's one of
those things that's like as Ian kind of points out
more in the article, it's that that shift of mindset
is very present, especially with the introduction of Twitter, right.
His argument it was like that was like when social
(14:22):
media was born pretty much because instead of like you're
in those chat rooms right talking with like other people,
it starts being topics focused and like there's media links
that you can put on there, and like that's how
people like especially in like the news world, are getting
their news sources from, right, it is through Twitter and
(14:43):
why it's so massively important to them, and so like
that started kind of a chain reaction for other social
medias to like grab more eyeballs, and it's gotten it
got so pervasive in our culture to the point of
like where you know, you like asked any like eight
(15:04):
year old what they wanted to be when they grow up,
and it's always YouTuber, you know, because it looks so
nice and easy and like you get a lot of money,
and you get a lot of things, and it kind
of showcased a lot of like instead of like media
showing like or social media showing like the people around you,
(15:26):
it's showing you what the rest of the world views
as like high quality I guess in including like high
quality people or something like that. Of like where it's
like there's a lot of people piling in to watch
one person, right, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
And views a notoriety for a lot of people, unbeknownst
to some people and very beknownst to some is just
like that is a affirmation to a lot of people
like psychologically that this is something that's noteworthy and worthy of,
you know, at some points just even just noticing, but
(16:07):
also even emulation, you know what I mean, like just
having high numbers and everything.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I'm really glad you hit on that because I think,
like the quote that really sums it up right now
in the article is quote social media showed that everyone
has the potential to reach a massive audience at low
cost and high gain, and that potential gave many people
the impression that they deserve such an audience. And I
(16:38):
think that's still the case today, Like even with working
with companies, a lot of people hiring younger people are
still very much like, oh, yeah, you need to be
running social media because you're young, right, and like that's
the thing we have to do, and like we have
to push push social media and like put a bunch
of money towards it. But kind of like what Ian
(17:00):
goes on to say is that like this is kind
of there's been like an attitude shift recently of like
this is kind of getting to a point of like
where people are just like no longer enjoying, no longer
feeling good about using this media anymore. And are kind
of like taking a step out of it because instead
of like, oh, connecting and networking with people, it's becoming consuming,
(17:25):
all consuming even to your day to day, to the
point of like an addiction situation. And that's where I
think like people are starting to kind of see that
and take a step back. And I actually think like
the introduction of TikTok has kind of fueled that faster
(17:46):
because it's like gobbled up a bunch of other social
media sites pretty much and like is giving other sites
a run for their money. But also I think even
with TikTok's usage, people are starting to understand now that like, oh,
I'm not going to be a social media star. And
(18:08):
I think that that's like the biggest thing like shift
attitude shift that I've seen recently, as like people, even
younger people talking to younger people, it's like they don't
want to be on social media necessarily. It's not like
it's not like the end all be all of their lives.
(18:29):
And I think like it was to like like millennials
and like older Gen Z people growing up, and so like,
I think that that attitude is very much shifted.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I call what do you think I was gonna say.
I mean, I agree, it's kind of it's very weird
like it. You know, life is cyclical at the end
of the day, and especially like when it comes to media,
extremely cyclical. But I remember there was this kind of
again going back to kind of when I first was
really like we were in the internet kind of social
(19:04):
media age. It was very in style, you know, to
try to come into social media. And then they like
as time went on, like you go to like two
thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine,
like there's these like people that were just holdouts, right
and they were just like, oh, I'm not gonna go
on social media, or I don't have any or like
(19:26):
if they do, it's just like one picture of them
and there's no content on there, you know what I mean.
Like and everybody like around that time, I felt like
was very much in the space going what are you doing.
You gotta be a part of this, You gotta, you know,
say what you want to say. I want to see
a photo of you, I want to hear what you
think about this article. I want to you know, all
this kind of stuff. And then that like fell more
(19:48):
and more out of favor and then I feel like
we got to like twenty ten, twenty eleven, twenty twenty,
or you know, twenty twenty, twenty twelve, you know, when
the world ended twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, you know, and
everybody was like, yes, we're on social media, and then
now kind of kicking it back to like the twenty twenties.
I feel like, especially with the younger gen z, there
(20:09):
is this kind of counterculture of more acceptance of being like, yeah,
I don't have to I don't want to post anything.
I don't have to, you know what I mean, And
it's acceptable to be like I'm gonna post one photo
of me every like ten to eleven months, you know,
(20:30):
for an Instagram for example, and that's gonna be it.
And I'm gonna have a TikTok that has no videos
or whatever. And I feel like if I went back
to like the twenty tens mindset, everyone would be like,
you're crazy. And that translates even to the music business too.
I think it's been really interesting to see like these
people now who like there's a lot and I will
say I think it does translate to more hype over
(20:52):
what it is. But these creators who are known to
be creators of you know, either some form of art
that's not just social media, right, Like they'll just put
like one photo of themselves every three months, it'll get
like two million likes and then they'll leave, you know
what I mean. Like and I feel like that kind
of account didn't exist in like the mid twenty tens, like,
(21:17):
and it was not socially acceptable. Everybody was like, you
need to be on this like weekly kind of schedule
where you're posting things, you're doing all this stuff, and
I you know, I don't mean to translate everything to business,
but also at the same time, it has translated to
the way these content creators in the same way I
was saying before, kind of because of their mass appeal
(21:39):
and all these likes and all these views end up
trying to be emulated. And so I think there has
been kind of a swash of people that have been
going more towards the no, let's just be laid back
with my Internet presence and like less is more is
more of the attitude, and it has been refreshing to see,
although it has it's starting to get a little bit
(22:03):
weirder again. I think just with like I think we're
still kind of in terms of how many people are
doing that like that less is more attitude. I think
we're we haven't hit the total high of that yet,
but I do think it's kind of a trend that's happening,
and then I think we're going to see it cyclically
come back to be like let's do more and more
and more and more. And so it's it's really weird.
(22:26):
And I think the problem is is it's like social
media now, it is not a new thing, Like it's
just not you know, and it has its own history,
which for you know, some people that are older, especially
than us, probably sounds freaking insane to think about. Like
you could probably analytically look at data from like a
(22:48):
Facebook from like a twenty ten through twenty twenty, and
have analytical data about how people posted, how long they posted,
and the trends of that information, which, like, you know,
it was so funny because I remember, like even in college,
like we'd have professors that would go, social media is
a new thing, and it'd be like, what are you
talking about?
Speaker 3 (23:08):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Like Facebook came out in two thousand and four, you
know what I mean. So, yeah, the point is it's
pretty rough, is I think there is now we're getting
with social media. Like you're saying, it's fundamentally different than
what it was. It's not just like you know, it's
not like you ever get like a history book in
(23:29):
uh in high school or something, and it's like, and
this is modern day two thousand and two. There is
nothing past two thousand and two, and it's like twenty twelve,
you know, like that's how it's felt like with social
media forever and how people treated it. It'd be like
there's nothing new, and I'm being like, no, We've been
going through a lot of changes online. And I think
a lot of people you know, have been almost accused
(23:52):
of being chronically online because they've kind of noticed these
changes all the time. But I do think it has
wider implications on and the way that these creators come
up and the way these creators ebb and flow and everything,
and it affects their day to day livelihood and then
therefore the greater populace and how they do it, because
(24:13):
if they're really popular, we should emulate the same styles
of you know them.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
So it's one of those things that is real.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I mean, we're in a cyclical thing it's like the same.
It's almost like the same of me being like, oh,
the recorded music business was way different in nineteen ninety
versus twenty twenty. It would be like me today being
like CDs.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Just came out. No, they did not, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Like, so, I don't know, Joe, what do you think
about all this since you're you know, kind of our
social media guy.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, I think like I'm trying to kind of distinguish
to you, like my own personal.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
And that is hard because it's like media to take
yourself out.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah, it is very much a bubble, right, It's like
you're own individual bubble. That's kind of the appeal of
using the internet. Right now. I think that, well, there's
there's kind of this thing where which I think, like
is left out of this article because I just don't
think like there is enough data yet. But I do
think that TikTok has kind of surpassed a lot of
(25:21):
other platforms too, and it has shifted the tone of
what social media is like currently. But I also think
that like, using social media has kind of become work
for a lot of people, even because it's like so
integrated in our daily lives and our professional lives at
(25:43):
this point. And this is like coming from someone who
works in media, right, and of course.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
You know I was going to say, I'm going to
be incial media.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Really scary to all of these companies that have been
making promises to investors about exponential growth for the last
ten to fifteen years, because if it's not just organically
fun for the random person to make content, it's like,
oh god, we got to pay people to make this now.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah. Yeah, it's It's one of those things that like
every business was trying to be on social media and
push their product, and I don't think that that, you know,
from a business perspective, I think it really depends on
your branding. Like I don't think it necessarily is going
to have an impact if you're a shovel company, right,
(26:30):
you know. But it's something that like I feel as
though a lot of younger people are in fact viewing
it as just work and they're not really enjoying their
time on social media and it has become more of
(26:52):
an addiction situation. And yeah, I think like they're they're
distancing themselves, just like gen Z is distancing themselves from drinking,
from partying, from whatever. This this is something else that
I think they're also distancing themselves from because I think
that they've seen the negative impacts that it has and
(27:14):
also too, we didn't even talk about like the controversial
content that it's being pushed out to people and has
been proven that that is indeed part of the grand
scheme of these social media companies to do is caused
discourse so that they hook you in longer, and that
(27:37):
in itself is like as as a way of like
how it's impacted society. I think people are starting to
like realize that it is a negative. It's net negative, especially.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
When you don't have that kind of organic environment that
has to be you know, faster, Like it's more of
they have have to literally stoke the flame on a
lot of this stuff, and there's nothing more that will
get more eyes on somebody than a controversial thing. So
it's like they will, you know that kind of social
(28:11):
media companies will play this game of being like, well,
you know, we didn't know about this, and it's like, yeah,
you kind of did, you know what I mean, It's
like you knew about this trend that was very deadly
and not a good thing, but you just kind of
you kind of just kept it there for a minute
so everybody would come look at it, and then you
took it away before it got too crazy in your opinion,
(28:35):
and then now it's banned from the platform like shit
like that, you know what I mean, where it's it's
a little interesting, or it's sometimes it's even I think
because of the economic conditions these companies have been, they
have kind of resorted to this craziness of we need
(28:56):
these giant, big things to happen on our platform all
the time, because guys, the investors are actually at our door.
They're not just believing that we're gonna have exponential growth anymore.
And that can lead to some scary situations when it
comes to what is available online. And also like what
(29:16):
these companies will kind of turn a blind eye do
to get eyes to come to the platform and then
therefore talk about the thing that's controversial in the first place,
generating more content. So I agree with you, Joe, I mean,
we we definitely are in a different kind of era,
and I think that, to be honest, just that we
(29:40):
have a lot of people that now are just online
of all ages. You know, at one point, you know,
when we were growing up, it's like, oh, you know,
the younger kids do it. No, it's like your dad's
got Facebook, you know what I mean, Like that's that's
kind of what it is now, right, And so it's
like everybody's got some social media now. So I think
the thing is is that we're seeing some generational change
(30:03):
take effect because everybody's got social media and the people
have been on it since the beginning, have literally been
on social media for twenty years.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Like yeah, and yeah, and like it's.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Fundamentally not changed that much.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, and that's why it is time for change. And
like I think I think there's just like this thing
that people are feeling kind of all over the place
that's like, oh, this isn't as fun as it used
to be. Oh god, And yeah, I think that I
I personally think that, like I do think social media
(30:41):
is on the decline right currently. There has to be
like another idea, there has to be a shift of
how but.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Zuckerberg gave it to you. We could all go to
work and.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Say that again, but slow.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Zuckerberg gave do you know, like.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Joe, let's talk about the elephant in the room. I
have seen this everywhere. I'm like, we gotta talk about it,
and I'm just gonna call this section what the hell
is happening with Scooter Braun?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
The answer a lot.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Of things, but the main point is that I and
like I want to say this with taking any responsibility
personal responsibility away from the man, Scooter Braun is one
human being. And that is like, honestly my central thesis
of what's going on with Scooter Braun.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
So he is in fact a human being.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
He is one human being one And if you don't
know Scooter Braun, he is arguably one of the biggest
faces in the music business of our time. Like it
or not, he is up there now with the likes
of a David Geffen or an Ahmed Urdigant. Like he
is a household name when it comes to music business,
(32:04):
right if you don't know, he's a very famous, high
profile manager. He's very famous for discovering Justin Bieber and
taking him under his wing and you know, mentoring him
in everything and coming up with him and a number
of other famous clients. And as of recent history, which
has really kind of hit the nail over the last
couple of years, he has come to be vilified as
(32:26):
the head of Ithaca Holdings, which Ithaca Holdings is the
company that held Taylor Swift's recordings under her former label
Big Machine, and then they sold Taylor's original recordings off
to another company called Shamrock Holdings. There's a lot of
tea on that. We actually had a whole thing where
I talked about what the hell was going on with.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
That for a while.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
We're just going to move past that for a minute, anyway.
The point is is that if you hadn't listened to
that episode, it basically led to Scooter becoming the internet's
number one ad corporate music man for a while.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Right, Like he was the bad man for a very
long time.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
And Ithaca Holdings like kind of was in a lot
of hot water, but it simmered off.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
It was chill.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
And then they merged with Hybe, which we also covered
on the show, which is a no understatement, giant entertainment company.
That is the company from South Korea that brought the
world BTS and a number of other K pop bands.
So they merged together in a billion dollar merger in
twenty twenty one, and now Scooter, as of January this year,
(33:37):
is the CEO of Hybe America, which you know, the
American division of an entertainment company is going to be
exceedingly busy, and it is a company that is being
looked at by many in the music business as a
wonder and something to look at all the time. So,
now that you got all the background, here's what hasn't
happened in a Scooter In the last couple of weeks.
(33:58):
Scooter has been rapidly losing his clients one by one,
basically his bread and butter as a manager. Basically, he
notably before all these other ones started leaving. He's notably
lost two within the last year, which I'm going to
cover before we get to what I we consider, you know,
some of the biggest losses all at once. So Scooter's
(34:21):
management company is called SB Projects, which got to give
it to him. He is humble SB Projects. Basically, they
have all these clients underneath them that Scooter is the
head of this management company, meaning they have teams of
people that work with these all these other people as
well as Scooter. But you know, earlier this year they
(34:44):
had lost which I didn't know this. They lost Na Menzel,
the famous Broadway star, which I didn't know she was
managed by Scooter. But that was cool. Everybody usually knows
her from Wicked and then Latin superstar Ja in May
actually who left to go to Rock Nation, which is
(35:04):
owned by jay Z. So that was kind of like,
let's say, that was the writing on the wall, and
so what's kick started a lot of this controversy is
that the other clients he's lost literally within the last weeks,
which have kind of been like ride or dies with Scooter,
which is Demi Levado and longtime client Ariana Grande, who
(35:25):
have both left him this month. Demi said that the
split was amicable why Arianna says they left on quote
friendly terms but wanting something new, which was kind of
interesting because this is actually not the first time that
Ariana has left Scooter, but she's been with Scooter since
(35:46):
twenty thirteen, so like literally since Ariana has kind of
been on the come up with her music, Scooter's been
right there with her. She did leave him like literally
for maybe like a month or two in twenty sixteen,
a couple months something like that and get an exact thing,
but she came back, so like, you know, it's kind
of like a it's kind of like a real life
(36:06):
breakup where it's like, you guys came back. All right,
there's nothing else we can do anymore, you know what
I mean. We broke up before, now we're bringing up again.
I don't know, you know. Anyway, it's very tea filled
because there's some insiders that, according to Vox, claim that
SBB that Arianna is actually still under contract, which I
(36:27):
thought was really interesting. And you want to know how,
like Ada left field, this was Scooter Braun Projects social
media was actively promoting her new album literally minutes before
she started talking about that she was leaving Scooter, So
something was some wires were crossed and it was not
(36:48):
looking good, especially since Scooter is known for being a
very calculated guy who you know, has all these business dealings.
So there's a lot of allegation going on specifically Arianna,
which I thought I should cover, But like this is
kind of an example of some of the other things
that some people have alleged with Scooter Braun Projects. Basically,
(37:11):
there's been a lot of allegations around Scooter bron Projects
of not being kind of attentive at the wheel, specifically
in or Arianna's situation. They were allegedly kind of blaming
them for not helping her navigate her most recent controversy,
which if you don't know anything about that, Ariana recently
(37:34):
divorced her husband, and there was a lot of backlash
around that because she immediately started dating her Wicked co
star because she's on Broadway and Ethan Slater is a
guy's name, and Slater recently separated from his longtime partner
and mother of his recently born son. So there was
a lot of like disgruntle fans that the other spouses
were not happy about their relationship and everything. So she
(37:57):
was getting pulled under the rug like she had a
new album out and.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Like nobody cared. Everybody was like, what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
You know, And so it's been alleged that supposedly Ariana's
team was not happy because Scooter Scooter's company did not
help them try to navigate this with the press and
everything like that, and she really got. That's honestly the
last thing I heard about Ariana Rose that she had
this whole thing, and people literally were being you know, well,
(38:26):
however you think about it, People were saying stuff like, oh, well.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
You know, she got with this guy and broke up
a marriage. She broke up her own.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Marriage, so it was bad, right, But like that's kind
of the main vibe that a lot of people have
alleged is that Scooter bron Projects has a little bit,
for lack of a better term, been asleep at the wheel.
On top of that, I just mentioned Demi and Arianna
because they're some of the biggest ones that Scooter has.
Representatives for Joe's Favorite Carly Ray, Jebson, Baby Jake, and
(38:54):
Asher Roth confirmed to the Associated Press that these artists
no longer work with Scooter and haven't for quite some time,
So we're up to five artists so far. It is
also alleged that Scooter Braun Projects and Scooter have little
contact with Bieber anymore. With Justin Bieber, which literally was
his bread and butter client, Puck News Matthew Bellianni reported
(39:22):
that Justin Bieber was looking for new management after a
silent split from Scooter Braun on August eighteenth, although he
is still listed as a client on the SBP website,
although that lists past and current clients, which is an
important distinction there.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
But none of this has been confirmed.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
But it's kind of a mess because, literally, like I
was saying, Scooter's bread and butter is alleged.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
To be leaving.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Demi's been with him for a very long time. Ariana
is one of his biggest artists. He has all of
these other artists that are leaving. He's had other artists
that have left this year, and nobody really knows what's
going on. But the one thing we do know what's
going on is that Scooter is currently stepping into his
role as CEO of HYB America and plans to stay
(40:12):
there for you know, the foreseeable future. They have very
big plans, especially with going into the Latin music scene,
and have very big ambitions. So that's kind of the
main thing we know is that he's taking a lot
of responsibility on And the main thing that Scooter's team
has said is that they have made a statement stating
(40:32):
that he would be stepping back from hands on management,
which Vox puts it probably the best quote. It makes
sense then that multiple clients who've been long used to
personal caretaking from Braun might have soured on the prospect
of less one on one approach and one to move on,
which is actually really notable because Vox also puts this,
(40:53):
and I've read this other places as well. Scooter is
very well known for having a one on one mentor
kind of type style with artists. He's very known for
a personal touch with artists and working with them one
on one all the time, So it would make sense
that that could be a big factor, especially if Scooter
has been relying more on his team to do more
(41:17):
of the managing than he has. And you know, Scooter
Brown's a big name and obviously he's very well respected
and very well respected among his clients. So this big
of a change and roster is huge. I kind of
want to put it on this again, Scooter is one man.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
One man. Yeah, you cannot be. You cannot be.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I my honest opinion about this, and I will Joe will
give you time to speak about this as well. He's
just got too much on goddamn plate. And uh, he definitely,
I mean, he's already made the call that he's stepping
back from hands on management. Could this kind of have been,
you know, foreseen that clients were gonna have issues, Absolutely,
(42:07):
and maybe that could have been handled better. But at
the end of the day, people are given all these
conspiracy theories given his reputation with Taylor Swift that you know,
it's because Scooter bron is an asshole. Everybody hates Scooter everybody,
and I go, no, don't know this guy. They've been
with them for years. I mean, like all of these
clients have been with them for years.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
I think it's just doing too much. Yeah, it's I mean,
you know, obviously, like there's a personal touch to the
way that he handles clients I guess for like a
decade if you like. But it does seem like this
is more of like a business parting of like the
actual company rather than honestly, the Ariana one seems the
(42:48):
most like personal.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
I mean that one's very personal and it has brought
up a personal situation if you're interested. I'm gonna put
it below, as we do with all our sources. But
this Vox article about it, it's probably one of the
best ones I've found because they really lay out all
of the relations and they even go into the Taylor
Swift drama if you don't know anything about that. But
one of the points they do make in the article
(43:11):
is that all of these artists may have their own reasons,
you know. One of the main things that were said
was like, for instance, Demis had a lot going on
in their life, like they came out as non binary,
they had to go back into rehab, you know what
I mean. So there's a lot going on in their life.
So maybe they decided, oh, I don't want this style
(43:32):
of management anymore. And currently they're just going through their
back catalog and kind of re recording in rock styles,
you know, which is not, in my opinion, the Scooter
Bronze style of all guns ahead, I'm gonna make you
the biggest pop artist.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Like it seems like, let's take like what Scooter Bron's
nemesis did well.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
And it's so funny because Scooter is allegedly the one
that was telling Taylor to re record the asters, and
I believe that she even admits that. The Taylor even
admits that. But another point that was brought up as
well is other than you know, people having their own reasons,
is that when Hybe and Ithaca Holdings, which is Scooter's company,
(44:19):
merged together, there were very large payouts to different people
in the grand scheme of scooters clients per variety. Some
clients like Bieber and Grande walked away with eleven million
dollars in shares from the deal. Others like Balvin and
Levada received much less. Levada received just one million dollars
(44:41):
so quotas Vox puts it. The unequal payouts have fueled
speculation that perhaps money disputes drove the walkouts, though no
sources have confirmed this, so there could be just maybe
bad blood there, you know what I mean, There's a
lot going on in this situation that I feel, like,
in know can be rolled into. Oh well, Scooter's got
(45:05):
his own problems personally and how he manages his business.
That's fine, but I definitely think some of these other
ones are huge more you know, optimes Razor type things
that a man can't be the one on one manager
with many a list music star as well at the
same time running one of the most sought after and
(45:28):
wonderfilled music companies in the world currently as the CEO.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
And like, yeah, I'm sure you can speak.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Because Joe, like you know, everything with managers is also
just like the segmentation of management as well, like how
it's not just like one guy all the time.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yeah, I mean sometimes it's like it's hard to delegate, right,
especially with artists who require a personal touch, like I
would say most if you're managing artists, like every artist
is gonna want you to be like personally involved and
invested in their project. So I don't think that that
is necessarily like as crazy. I think it's like different
(46:09):
that like he has his own management company, right, so
he's running it different than like a Red Light Wood
or like some other management company. But it's like it's
one of those it's a situation like where there's no
information and we would have to see what happens. What
(46:31):
I was actually gonna ask allinim like, isn't there I
don't know if this was rumored or if this was true,
But wasn't Bieber's uh like law team like filing a
lawsuit against Scooter.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
I hadn't seen anything confirmed about that specifically on Bieber.
I mean kind of going into the thread that.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Might that might have been not true, well fair, but there.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Was specifically Bieber.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
I will say, like his main things that people have said,
like his personal points for instance, are you know, obviously
when we've covered on the show, Bieber has kind of
stepped back a lot. He's had a lot of health issues,
you know, so maybe he's just trying not to be
you know, in a management contract anymore, right, Like maybe
he could step away do this Ramsey Hunt syndrome that
(47:19):
he has. So like, there's a lot going on in
this and it's just I think, you know, it's one
of those things where I feel like, for lack of
a better term, like I said, Akab's razor the most likely,
you know, easiest path of less resistance. It's probably is
probably the most likely. I do think that, you know, obviously,
(47:42):
artists have their own thing. But I just think that
Scooter probably you know, for his own career has been
less personal with all of these A list stars due
to having an entire Scooter Ron project management company. Right,
He's been more removed. He's stepping into a role that
usually people just have to do by themselves. They don't
(48:06):
do anything else other than be a CEO, right Like
maybe they're like on a charity board, right Like it's
not just like, oh, you're running three successful company.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
No.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
So, like I think Okham's razor, like it might just
be that he spread himself too thin. A lot of
these artists feel like they haven't had the personal scooter
touch and maybe they cause maybe they cause their own
kind of you know, uh rolling hill if you will,
going on when they announced, Hey, Scooter's personally you know,
(48:36):
as a company, we will say this out loud, now
Scooter's not gonna be involved as much anymore. And then
everyone was like, Okay, well, let's get our ducks in
a row and figure out what we're doing because we're
probably gonna have to leave because we want somebody that
has the personal touch like Scooter, and Scooter said, he's
not doing it anymore. So I just think it's it's
been blown out of proportion a lot because of this
(48:59):
drama that he's had with Taylor. Like I think that
there's a lot of people that are rooting that he's
just like, you know, we found the you know, like
we found the evil yeah, right, Like we found the
cauldron that makes him a witch in the back of
his office. Like that's what I feel like people are
waiting to hear, right, Like we found his evil plans
written out on a notebook. But like, I just honestly
(49:23):
think this guy was, it still is very well loved
by a lot of clients. I just think that he
spread himself too thin, you know. And I think after
his company had to literally say out loud, hey, we're
spreading ourselves too thin. Scooter can't be involved personally anymore.
A lot of clients are.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
Like, what am I here for? I was here for Scooter,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Well, and also too, I think like the the fact
of the matter is like if Scooter just didn't manage anymore,
he still had an insane run. When it comes to
these clients, Oh yeah, if.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Scooter was just desiring, like it would just be like
I feel like everyone would go all right, you know,
they're all leaving because.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
He doesn't like the type of guy that would ever retire.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Here probably isn't. I see him as like a David Geffen,
Like he's just gonna keep going. I mean literally, he's
stepping into the role of this mythical merger right to
run this label that has so much capital and so
much hype around it. Right, And so this is if
(50:33):
anyone thinks this is a downgrade, this is an up
and up scenario. To get out of management into the
top of.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
The c suite.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Absolutely an upgrade, right because you're at the whell of
you know, you just got to convince you know, obviously
it's higher stress because you're gotting convinced the shareholders. But
the benefits and the luxuries that are offered to you
more than being you know, the top of your own company,
to be in a publicly traded company. Oh my god,
what a different world, right, So yeah, he he's stepping
(51:05):
up right, Like I would not consider like obviously the
situation you know, on paper, if I just said Scooter's
losing all his clients, Oh wow, that is bad.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
But like when you think of the.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Context of where Scooter's going, it's insane, right, Like, this
is stuff I've been talking about on the show forever
and like not to hype it up literally punintended, I guess,
but like this company, like you know, people were trying
to trade the stock when it first came out, and
it's hundreds of dollars now and you don't see that
(51:38):
a lot in a music public corporation. So yeah, Warner
trades for like thirty four dollars to share. This trade's
for like two hundred and fifty dollars to share. So
it has a lot of market hype and a lot
of you know, upper echelon potential that Scooter can capitalize
if they run it. Well, he's you know, obviously part
(52:00):
of the American Arm. But guess what. The American arm
is very important in an entertainment company.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
Hm.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Anyway, Joe, I just thought, you know, I mean, and
lastly kind of getting the logistics of everything. Like, It's
one thing that I think a lot of people forget
is that there's a reason that we call them artists teams.
Speaker 3 (52:25):
Right, there's a reason.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
You know, Scooter I'm.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Sure is very talented based on what all these people
say about him and everything and what he's done for.
Speaker 3 (52:36):
These people in these careers.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
He's helped Foster, right, But these teams are really what
like have kept the day to day going. I mean
we personally, I know, between the two of us, know
much muchne fathoms of magnitude. Smaller clients that are too
busy by themselves now that they have to have a
(52:58):
day to day manager and then they have to have
a overall manager. Right, And so I can't even imagine
if you were at like, you know, Ari on a
grande level, the amount of people that are in.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
To have what was it like, I mean maybe a
bad example, but Taylor Swift had like a team of managers. Right,
It's like the same level. Right, It's like you get
to a certain threshold and you literally are like it
is a whole group effort. It cannot physically be one person. Yeah,
it's just not possible.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yeah, And that's like what I want to hit on
here is like I don't think any of that in
Scooter's case is an a regularity at all. I would
even argue that it's extremely fostered in the music business
to have this you know, kind of teamwork mentality a manager.
I think because of the public perception of management, everybody
(53:54):
always assumes that, like everyone's manager is like one guy
who runs all the shots, you know what I mean,
or one girl that runs all of the shots, and
they call everybody and they do everything personally. And that's
just not the case, Like they give you out this
stuff now, like it's just too much for one person
(54:15):
most of the time. And usually you know, it's a
two man, a three man, a four man team, you know,
for some of these bigger artists. So obviously at the
same time that you know, people are coming down and
be like Scooter, why are you not personally involved? Which
we've kind of covered why Scooter is are personally involved anymore.
He's got a very big responsibility stepping into At the
(54:36):
same time, if you're listening to this, this is not
an irregularity, Like this is a very normal thing in
these big management companies where they go, this person's my manager,
and then I go, who deals with you eighty five
percent of the time? Is it that guy? No, it's
that guy, Okay, so that's your day to day manager.
(54:58):
That's the person that mostly deals with How are they?
Speaker 3 (55:01):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (55:02):
And so obviously these bigger managers do big things, they
have huge connection. This is Scooter Broun, Like he could
open doors all the time with just a phone call
that maybe one of these lower day to day managers
would have to, you know, have a leap and a
prayer to get right, which is the power of having
this kind of big and small thing. But at the
same time, he's not involved with all the minutia because
(55:26):
at the end of the day, some of it it's
just beneath Scooter, you know what I mean, Like be like, oh,
why do I have to negotiate every venue?
Speaker 3 (55:33):
You've got this? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (55:34):
You negotiate pay out of the venue. I've done this
a thousand times, you know. So it's I think it's
come down to this media perception with Scooter, which you know,
you can think about how he did with Taylor Swift
however you want. But like, at the end of the day,
I think it's really come down to Scooter's one man,
(55:55):
and I think there's a lot of misinterpretation about how
many people are actually.
Speaker 3 (56:00):
Your manager, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
Like they just always think it's that, you know, one
guy or girl in the back going like.
Speaker 3 (56:06):
I'm with you to it's to the end.
Speaker 2 (56:08):
You know, were you together since I found you in
that nightclub and sixty three?
Speaker 3 (56:13):
You know? And it's like, no, it's not like that.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
Well what kind of a nightclub music you've been listening to?
Speaker 3 (56:24):
Calling? Oh god, I'm trying to find it right now?
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Night core? Nightcore music.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
I saw this video I was on TikTok and it
was like the stupidest video. It was like twenty four hours,
but the video was like every time my dog shows
up in the frame, it speeds up nightcore.
Speaker 3 (56:42):
So it's just like silence and it's.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Like that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (56:47):
It's so good and it's like at eight times speed.
So like the video is like insane, how fast the
dog is running around. Anyway, keep going, Jobe, what are
you've been listening to?
Speaker 1 (56:57):
I've been listening to the new Omar Apollo single I Slippin'.
I think like it's one of his best songs in
my opinion, it's just such a good track. I also
discovered this artist. I had no idea how big this
person was, but Sid Siria. So I'm watching this shri
(57:19):
Rum Sid shre Rum. He's an artist from America but
actually huge in India and he's scored like tons of
like Bollywood films and stuff. But like he's kind of
He just released a record called Sid Hearth and it's
(57:40):
like a bit more. It seems to be like cattering
more towards like an American audience, but some of the
songs on there are amazing, Like that's just the production
and the just so we're aware, like how out of
it I am. This man has twelve million monthly listeners,
which is insane, crazy that I have not heard of
(58:05):
him before. But yeah, very he's fine. He's very successful,
but the music is he is pretty great. And then
been listening a lot to Alison Pattier's record called Shaking
Hands with Elvis her EP. I actually just love everything
(58:27):
about the rollout of that EP, but also the creative
and just the songs in general. It's it's just it's all.
It just makes sense and it's just really really well done.
So good.
Speaker 3 (58:42):
Well.
Speaker 2 (58:43):
I've been feverously googling right now because there's this band
that's kind of big on TikTok and their their name
is Sakka Nate Nashan, which is their Japanese band. I'm
trying to tell you what the name of this song is,
but I can't copy paste from YouTube music because it's
(59:03):
an all Japanese, so I can't tell you what the
song is. But it's been really big on TikTok and
I've been listening to it and I really like it
because everybody's joke with it. It's just like, oh, it's
the end of the anime where like the main villain
has just been like ripped his heart out, and then
the credits role and they're like all dancing at the
end of it. Like that's like the vibe of this music. Yeah,
(59:24):
but I really like it. Other than that, I was
I'm really gonna I'm just gonna fly through Collins random thing.
So I was listening also to George Straight all my
exes live in Texas. Always always a good one, A
karaoke favorite of mine.
Speaker 1 (59:41):
A classic.
Speaker 2 (59:43):
It's just me playing a character, man, But I'll just
that's how I eat it up at karaoke. If it's
if I feel like I'm in a character, that's when
I eat it up a karaoke. And then the other
one is I'm almost been a Stevie Wonder with his
last I didn't know this, but this is his last
number one ever, which is a part time I'm lover
you and me my partam lover. But yeah, that's that's
(01:00:07):
what I've been listening to. Oh my god, wait wait wait, wait, okay,
so I've talked about this band before. This is exactly
what this is. I cannot I'm losing my mind right now,
so freaking speaking of TikTok changing the Internet, I've talked
about this song on the I cannot believe I listening
to this right now. But there is a band called
Local Eighth I've talked about on this show and they
(01:00:31):
just released literally just as I saw this, just looking
through my music. They just listened to their one of
their like most angsty songs, which is called Bound for
the Floor, and it's sped up and I cannot believe
that there's a sped up version of this. This is
a six minute song usually, but it's oh yeah God,
or a three minute song.
Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
God? What the fuck? How is this sped up? Anyway?
TikTok Wait, you know what.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Collin's going to be listening to, So tune in, next
tune and next time.
Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
You learned to except it now if you won't, we get.
Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
It and you just don't get it social media? Do
I have to say anymore?
Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Anyways? Guys, thank you for listening to The Busday. We
hope to see it next time.
What is going on with Scooter or bron and as
social media dead? You're listening to what biz Tape.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to the biz Tape. You're all Things Music, business
and media podcast. I'm your host, Colin McKay with my
lovely co host Coast to Coast Joseph Wizileski joining me again.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Thank you, thank you, hold your applause. I'm here. All
is well. I've actually gotten a full night sleep.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I was about to be like the way you're talking,
I'm about to be like, blink twice if you need help,
but I'm like, I can't even see you if you're blinking.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So yeah, it's actually I'm in a hostage situation. But
you can never miss the podcast. We have to come
on the podcast every week.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
The hostage.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
You're saying that out loud, it sounds that's not great,
but but you know what, we're gonna keep going with it.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Let's just keep going, Colin.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
How is your how's your week going? What's new with you?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Man, very busy. Everything's on fire. Everything's also getting a
new round of gear. You know how it is.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
But hell, yeah nothing.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
People always think that summertime is like the slow time,
but it's always horrible.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, we in my side, on the live side, like
there's actually a running joke in my business now where
especially like among the people I work with day to day,
where there used to be a slow season and there's
not a slow season anymore, like ever since the pandemic.
And I've said it on the show, like literally we
used to have like summer and then fall was like
(01:51):
kind of you know, like you know, active, and then
like winter like late November, late like or early December,
they're kind to be nothing, and then like some pop
up Christmas stuff which is all of a sudden appear,
and then there'd be a crazy thing in New Year's
and then January February would be like dead and then
then you start the whole thing over. But like now
(02:11):
it's just all the time, we're just going on cylinders here.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
So do you think that is due to low staffing
or do you think that it's just the demand.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Is I think it's the demand.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
It's honestly, the demand for this level of gear, even
on a small scale, is astronomically bigger than it used
to be. And I think it's like twofold. I think
that it's on top of you know, you just have
people that are still on the pandemic, like we've lost
(02:45):
this time. We need to recoup this time, you know
what I mean that we lost. I think there's also
just a number of smaller artists and smaller factions that,
due to a lot of these venues closing out, literally
just have to provide their own gear, like like stuff
that used to be just commonplace at these venues.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
It's like, yeah, we don't have it.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
We just got like a stage in the corner over
there with like a Macie mix and you're like, no,
we're not doing a show on a you know, eight
channel Mackie mixer, you know what I mean. So it's like,
I think it's a combination of both. I mean, so
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I think
there's a lot of room for positive growth and positive
(03:26):
kind of like you know, resource allocation where we can
keep using these kind of things over and over and
over again and not have to rebuild or retool like
everything every three seconds. But at the same time, it
is a lot because I think we're in the very
beginning stage of that and live touring anyway, not to
go on a complete tangent about that, Joe, I don't
know what do you want to start or do you
(03:48):
want me to start?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Or yeah, I'll start this time. I guess Okay, Oh,
it's a little bit of a it's a little bit
of an odd one.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yes, you did preface that before we started, So I'm
very intrigued where we're this.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, I think this is like just kind of a
topic that both of us have been like interested in.
And I think the more painting, like the more that
like social media has like gone on, I think the
more that this is becoming more of an argument more
so than it was in the past. And what I
(04:22):
mean by that is The Atlantic actually came out with
an article last year and it's called the Age of
Social Media is Ending by Ian Bogust, and basically Ian
talked about kind of the history of social media and
how it's kind of shaped over the years and like
where it's at currently, I guess not currently like last
(04:46):
year current, right, But funny enough, there's actually a Verge
article that like came out recently in April that also
is saying social media is doomed to die. So it's
it's very much still in the conversation that people are
talking about. And basically what Ian points out in this
(05:07):
article is that when social media was created, it was
created to connect you to real people in your everyday life.
It was friends focused. It wasn't brand focused or anything else.
It was just like, oh, these are the people in
my city, in my region. This is how I can
(05:30):
meet other people or keep up with people I already know, right,
And like the biggest thing to that was like Facebook
and the one before Facebook that we will will never
say friends. No, no, it actually it actually went all
the way back to a flicker as well, like high
(05:52):
five and Flicker, and like, it's actually a very very
interesting article and it's free to read. Everybody should take
a look at it because I think it's written really well.
And I don't know if I totally agree with his
the way he left off the article, but I do
think like, for the most part, he does a great
(06:12):
job of like keeping everything together right and like showcasing
like this argument. But basically what he's saying is like, yeah,
so the the beginning of social media, it was all
friends based. It was very personal. Then it started to
dive diverge once that once like these Silicon Valley institutions
(06:35):
basically found out that like, oh, our business model is
to keep people on these pages. So at that point
they turned it into Okay, we're going to try to
push content that is engaging to people. So it's not
just your friends that you're seeing on these pages. It's
like other media and like other pages, and like you're
starting to see like bigger pages and like rigger creators
(06:59):
as they come to be. And that's where social media
turns into or uh, I guess yeah, social media turns
into social media. Basically it was social networking and then
it turned out.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I was gonna say, the term networking seems more applicable
here where you're like, oh, this is social media, like
you know, like you're saying it's people I know in
real life or you know, maybe people that live in
another city that I know in real life. And then
it like slowly was like.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Well, do you.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Know, have a combined interest in something? You guys should
all look at this together because you guys all have
a combined interest, which like that is interesting to think about.
It's like I remember getting on the internet probably in
like middle school, and it was specifically just like this
is just so you can talk to like yeah, Facebook,
(07:52):
so like this is just so you can talk to
the other people you know in real life. And it
is really funny because like in a lot of ways,
well that's almost designed.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Let's be real, we all got.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
On mobsters and but like for real though, like it
was it was ghost to be like, oh, let me
go connect with these people I.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Don't know on the internet. Like it was a not.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
A dumb question. But what does ghost mean.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Oh, Joseph, it's just you know, it's like socially unpopular,
like not you know, like that's probably I.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Said it's like a hip new gen Z term.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Nope, it's actually really old and probably proves how Colin
is technically in the top of gen Z. But probably
it's closer to somehow a gen X person. I don't
know either. Anyway, The point is is that I like
I remember back then the point was, like you were,
this is an extension of your social being. It's not
(08:56):
a place to meet people. It's a place to extend
what you already.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Have, yes, one hundred percent. Yeah, And like what's what's
kind of funny is like the way that social media
is born is kind of in Ian's argument here is
kind of sociopathic in a way. It's it's it's not
They didn't come right out and say like, oh, this
(09:23):
is now turning into like media companies, right, They like
kind of like phrased it as like a web two
point zero revolution in user generated content, and he goes
on offering easy to use, easily adopted tools on websites
and then mobile apps, and basically because of how popular
(09:45):
these sites became, they started engulfing the entirety of the Internet,
like to where you are not going on the Internet
to look at different websites anymore, right, even to today,
like I think it was like crazy statistic it's like
ninety six percent of people going on the Internet go
(10:05):
to the same four sights or something and they're all
social media sites. Yep, you know. So it's like because
of that, a lot of like Silicon Vallee was like
seeing that this was becoming successful and grabbing a lot
of attention, and so these companies started popping up all
over the place. They were called S and S companies.
(10:27):
But then in the community there was even a joke
acronym called YASN, which stands for yet another social network,
because pretty much every company was trying to start a
new social network situation. It was like that in apps,
like everyone was trying to get an app going, which
kind of like sparked the fire for that as well.
(10:50):
But he goes on and like he kind of starts
talking about like Facebook's rise and fall and how because
it's it's kind of full changed, It's it's kind of
turned its back on on its original use. It's it's
kind of floundered recently, especially with its use in the
metaverse and how people just like aren't using Facebook as
(11:13):
much as they used to be. It's like very much
like I wouldn't say it's a dying site, but it's
it's not stagnating the best. Yeah, it's stagnating, and like,
to be honest, even like, uh, it's still very early days,
but even Threads is kind of showing that well, you know,
like almost has it but not quite.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well what's hit on for a second, like that whole
idea of Facebook VR and all that kind of stuff,
Because honestly, in the way that people found that very
cringey and very you know, out of touch, I would say,
like one of my main criticism for it is that
it felt out of time and what I mean by
(11:59):
that is like kind of going back to what I
was saying earlier. If you went to like A two
thousand and six, a two thousand and seven and we're like, hey,
you know, you can connect with all these people you
know in real life, like with virtual reality and see
them and interact. That seems like in the actual I
(12:21):
almost want to say belief system of the Internet, like
where that was the design of the products was to
extend what you already have, and for a lot of
people now like the Internet is so you know, tailored
to escaping from what you have and what's around you
and how you're perceived that it it's it became so
(12:43):
such an antiquated idea for Facebook to go, we want
you to connect to real life again more virtually, and
everyone was like, that's freaking crazy. But I really do
believe if you took this idea twenty years earlier, people would.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Have jumped on that.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
It's the same thing, you know, the same that you know,
like we were joking about Farmville, but like that's kind
of what it was like where it's like, oh, you
go visit somebody else's farm, you can see what's up
in the same way that like aim was a big thing,
you know what I mean, where you can just talk
to everybody all the time, no matter what. But I
think that on the whole, the Internet has changed so
(13:21):
much from being an extension of your reality as opposed
to now where it's a escape from reality, like it's
an escape from what's around you, and it's you know,
it's weird because it's a veil of like collectivism, like oh,
we're all viewing this together, we're all human, but because
(13:42):
of like the flock kind of effect and the aminitity here,
like it just creates this dehumanizing thing where nothing feels
real anymore, you know. Anyway, I don't know why I
just went on that succession kind of speech, but keep going.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
No, I mean that's good. That's it's the new season
of succession right there. But yeah, it's it's one of
those things that's like as Ian kind of points out
more in the article, it's that that shift of mindset
is very present, especially with the introduction of Twitter, right.
His argument it was like that was like when social
(14:22):
media was born pretty much because instead of like you're
in those chat rooms right talking with like other people,
it starts being topics focused and like there's media links
that you can put on there, and like that's how
people like especially in like the news world, are getting
their news sources from, right, it is through Twitter and
(14:43):
why it's so massively important to them, and so like
that started kind of a chain reaction for other social
medias to like grab more eyeballs, and it's gotten it
got so pervasive in our culture to the point of
like where you know, you like asked any like eight
(15:04):
year old what they wanted to be when they grow up,
and it's always YouTuber, you know, because it looks so
nice and easy and like you get a lot of money,
and you get a lot of things, and it kind
of showcased a lot of like instead of like media
showing like or social media showing like the people around you,
(15:26):
it's showing you what the rest of the world views
as like high quality I guess in including like high
quality people or something like that. Of like where it's
like there's a lot of people piling in to watch
one person, right, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
And views a notoriety for a lot of people, unbeknownst
to some people and very beknownst to some is just
like that is a affirmation to a lot of people
like psychologically that this is something that's noteworthy and worthy of,
you know, at some points just even just noticing, but
(16:07):
also even emulation, you know what I mean, like just
having high numbers and everything.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I'm really glad you hit on that because I think,
like the quote that really sums it up right now
in the article is quote social media showed that everyone
has the potential to reach a massive audience at low
cost and high gain, and that potential gave many people
the impression that they deserve such an audience. And I
(16:38):
think that's still the case today, Like even with working
with companies, a lot of people hiring younger people are
still very much like, oh, yeah, you need to be
running social media because you're young, right, and like that's
the thing we have to do, and like we have
to push push social media and like put a bunch
of money towards it. But kind of like what Ian
(17:00):
goes on to say is that like this is kind
of there's been like an attitude shift recently of like
this is kind of getting to a point of like
where people are just like no longer enjoying, no longer
feeling good about using this media anymore. And are kind
of like taking a step out of it because instead
of like, oh, connecting and networking with people, it's becoming consuming,
(17:25):
all consuming even to your day to day, to the
point of like an addiction situation. And that's where I
think like people are starting to kind of see that
and take a step back. And I actually think like
the introduction of TikTok has kind of fueled that faster
(17:46):
because it's like gobbled up a bunch of other social
media sites pretty much and like is giving other sites
a run for their money. But also I think even
with TikTok's usage, people are starting to understand now that like, oh,
I'm not going to be a social media star. And
(18:08):
I think that that's like the biggest thing like shift
attitude shift that I've seen recently, as like people, even
younger people talking to younger people, it's like they don't
want to be on social media necessarily. It's not like
it's not like the end all be all of their lives.
(18:29):
And I think like it was to like like millennials
and like older Gen Z people growing up, and so like,
I think that that attitude is very much shifted.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I call what do you think I was gonna say.
I mean, I agree, it's kind of it's very weird
like it. You know, life is cyclical at the end
of the day, and especially like when it comes to media,
extremely cyclical. But I remember there was this kind of
again going back to kind of when I first was
really like we were in the internet kind of social
(19:04):
media age. It was very in style, you know, to
try to come into social media. And then they like
as time went on, like you go to like two
thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine,
like there's these like people that were just holdouts, right
and they were just like, oh, I'm not gonna go
on social media, or I don't have any or like
(19:26):
if they do, it's just like one picture of them
and there's no content on there, you know what I mean.
Like and everybody like around that time, I felt like
was very much in the space going what are you doing.
You gotta be a part of this, You gotta, you know,
say what you want to say. I want to see
a photo of you, I want to hear what you
think about this article. I want to you know, all
this kind of stuff. And then that like fell more
(19:48):
and more out of favor and then I feel like
we got to like twenty ten, twenty eleven, twenty twenty,
or you know, twenty twenty, twenty twelve, you know, when
the world ended twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, you know, and
everybody was like, yes, we're on social media, and then
now kind of kicking it back to like the twenty twenties.
I feel like, especially with the younger gen z, there
(20:09):
is this kind of counterculture of more acceptance of being like, yeah,
I don't have to I don't want to post anything.
I don't have to, you know what I mean, And
it's acceptable to be like I'm gonna post one photo
of me every like ten to eleven months, you know,
(20:30):
for an Instagram for example, and that's gonna be it.
And I'm gonna have a TikTok that has no videos
or whatever. And I feel like if I went back
to like the twenty tens mindset, everyone would be like,
you're crazy. And that translates even to the music business too.
I think it's been really interesting to see like these
people now who like there's a lot and I will
say I think it does translate to more hype over
(20:52):
what it is. But these creators who are known to
be creators of you know, either some form of art
that's not just social media, right, Like they'll just put
like one photo of themselves every three months, it'll get
like two million likes and then they'll leave, you know
what I mean. Like and I feel like that kind
of account didn't exist in like the mid twenty tens, like,
(21:17):
and it was not socially acceptable. Everybody was like, you
need to be on this like weekly kind of schedule
where you're posting things, you're doing all this stuff, and
I you know, I don't mean to translate everything to business,
but also at the same time, it has translated to
the way these content creators in the same way I
was saying before, kind of because of their mass appeal
(21:39):
and all these likes and all these views end up
trying to be emulated. And so I think there has
been kind of a swash of people that have been
going more towards the no, let's just be laid back
with my Internet presence and like less is more is
more of the attitude, and it has been refreshing to see,
although it has it's starting to get a little bit
(22:03):
weirder again. I think just with like I think we're
still kind of in terms of how many people are
doing that like that less is more attitude. I think
we're we haven't hit the total high of that yet,
but I do think it's kind of a trend that's happening,
and then I think we're going to see it cyclically
come back to be like let's do more and more
and more and more. And so it's it's really weird.
(22:26):
And I think the problem is is it's like social
media now, it is not a new thing, Like it's
just not you know, and it has its own history,
which for you know, some people that are older, especially
than us, probably sounds freaking insane to think about. Like
you could probably analytically look at data from like a
(22:48):
Facebook from like a twenty ten through twenty twenty, and
have analytical data about how people posted, how long they posted,
and the trends of that information, which, like, you know,
it was so funny because I remember, like even in college,
like we'd have professors that would go, social media is
a new thing, and it'd be like, what are you
talking about?
Speaker 3 (23:08):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Like Facebook came out in two thousand and four, you
know what I mean. So, yeah, the point is it's
pretty rough, is I think there is now we're getting
with social media. Like you're saying, it's fundamentally different than
what it was. It's not just like you know, it's
not like you ever get like a history book in
(23:29):
uh in high school or something, and it's like, and
this is modern day two thousand and two. There is
nothing past two thousand and two, and it's like twenty twelve,
you know, like that's how it's felt like with social
media forever and how people treated it. It'd be like
there's nothing new, and I'm being like, no, We've been
going through a lot of changes online. And I think
a lot of people you know, have been almost accused
(23:52):
of being chronically online because they've kind of noticed these
changes all the time. But I do think it has
wider implications on and the way that these creators come
up and the way these creators ebb and flow and everything,
and it affects their day to day livelihood and then
therefore the greater populace and how they do it, because
(24:13):
if they're really popular, we should emulate the same styles
of you know them.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
So it's one of those things that is real.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
I mean, we're in a cyclical thing it's like the same.
It's almost like the same of me being like, oh,
the recorded music business was way different in nineteen ninety
versus twenty twenty. It would be like me today being
like CDs.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Just came out. No, they did not, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Like, so, I don't know, Joe, what do you think
about all this since you're you know, kind of our
social media guy.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, I think like I'm trying to kind of distinguish
to you, like my own personal.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
And that is hard because it's like media to take
yourself out.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah, it is very much a bubble, right, It's like
you're own individual bubble. That's kind of the appeal of
using the internet. Right now. I think that, well, there's
there's kind of this thing where which I think, like
is left out of this article because I just don't
think like there is enough data yet. But I do
think that TikTok has kind of surpassed a lot of
(25:21):
other platforms too, and it has shifted the tone of
what social media is like currently. But I also think
that like, using social media has kind of become work
for a lot of people, even because it's like so
integrated in our daily lives and our professional lives at
(25:43):
this point. And this is like coming from someone who
works in media, right, and of course.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
You know I was going to say, I'm going to
be incial media.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Really scary to all of these companies that have been
making promises to investors about exponential growth for the last
ten to fifteen years, because if it's not just organically
fun for the random person to make content, it's like,
oh god, we got to pay people to make this now.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah. Yeah, it's It's one of those things that like
every business was trying to be on social media and
push their product, and I don't think that that, you know,
from a business perspective, I think it really depends on
your branding. Like I don't think it necessarily is going
to have an impact if you're a shovel company, right,
(26:30):
you know. But it's something that like I feel as
though a lot of younger people are in fact viewing
it as just work and they're not really enjoying their
time on social media and it has become more of
(26:52):
an addiction situation. And yeah, I think like they're they're
distancing themselves, just like gen Z is distancing themselves from drinking,
from partying, from whatever. This this is something else that
I think they're also distancing themselves from because I think
that they've seen the negative impacts that it has and
(27:14):
also too, we didn't even talk about like the controversial
content that it's being pushed out to people and has
been proven that that is indeed part of the grand
scheme of these social media companies to do is caused
discourse so that they hook you in longer, and that
(27:37):
in itself is like as as a way of like
how it's impacted society. I think people are starting to
like realize that it is a negative. It's net negative, especially.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
When you don't have that kind of organic environment that
has to be you know, faster, Like it's more of
they have have to literally stoke the flame on a
lot of this stuff, and there's nothing more that will
get more eyes on somebody than a controversial thing. So
it's like they will, you know that kind of social
(28:11):
media companies will play this game of being like, well,
you know, we didn't know about this, and it's like, yeah,
you kind of did, you know what I mean, It's
like you knew about this trend that was very deadly
and not a good thing, but you just kind of
you kind of just kept it there for a minute
so everybody would come look at it, and then you
took it away before it got too crazy in your opinion,
(28:35):
and then now it's banned from the platform like shit
like that, you know what I mean, where it's it's
a little interesting, or it's sometimes it's even I think
because of the economic conditions these companies have been, they
have kind of resorted to this craziness of we need
(28:56):
these giant, big things to happen on our platform all
the time, because guys, the investors are actually at our door.
They're not just believing that we're gonna have exponential growth anymore.
And that can lead to some scary situations when it
comes to what is available online. And also like what
(29:16):
these companies will kind of turn a blind eye do
to get eyes to come to the platform and then
therefore talk about the thing that's controversial in the first place,
generating more content. So I agree with you, Joe, I mean,
we we definitely are in a different kind of era,
and I think that, to be honest, just that we
(29:40):
have a lot of people that now are just online
of all ages. You know, at one point, you know,
when we were growing up, it's like, oh, you know,
the younger kids do it. No, it's like your dad's
got Facebook, you know what I mean, Like that's that's
kind of what it is now, right, And so it's
like everybody's got some social media now. So I think
the thing is is that we're seeing some generational change
(30:03):
take effect because everybody's got social media and the people
have been on it since the beginning, have literally been
on social media for twenty years.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Like yeah, and yeah, and like it's.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Fundamentally not changed that much.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, and that's why it is time for change. And
like I think I think there's just like this thing
that people are feeling kind of all over the place
that's like, oh, this isn't as fun as it used
to be. Oh god, And yeah, I think that I
I personally think that, like I do think social media
(30:41):
is on the decline right currently. There has to be
like another idea, there has to be a shift of
how but.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Zuckerberg gave it to you. We could all go to
work and.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Say that again, but slow.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Zuckerberg gave do you know, like.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Joe, let's talk about the elephant in the room. I
have seen this everywhere. I'm like, we gotta talk about it,
and I'm just gonna call this section what the hell
is happening with Scooter Braun?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
The answer a lot.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Of things, but the main point is that I and
like I want to say this with taking any responsibility
personal responsibility away from the man, Scooter Braun is one
human being. And that is like, honestly my central thesis
of what's going on with Scooter Braun.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
So he is in fact a human being.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
He is one human being one And if you don't
know Scooter Braun, he is arguably one of the biggest
faces in the music business of our time. Like it
or not, he is up there now with the likes
of a David Geffen or an Ahmed Urdigant. Like he
is a household name when it comes to music business,
(32:04):
right if you don't know, he's a very famous, high
profile manager. He's very famous for discovering Justin Bieber and
taking him under his wing and you know, mentoring him
in everything and coming up with him and a number
of other famous clients. And as of recent history, which
has really kind of hit the nail over the last
couple of years, he has come to be vilified as
(32:26):
the head of Ithaca Holdings, which Ithaca Holdings is the
company that held Taylor Swift's recordings under her former label
Big Machine, and then they sold Taylor's original recordings off
to another company called Shamrock Holdings. There's a lot of
tea on that. We actually had a whole thing where
I talked about what the hell was going on with.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
That for a while.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
We're just going to move past that for a minute, anyway.
The point is is that if you hadn't listened to
that episode, it basically led to Scooter becoming the internet's
number one ad corporate music man for a while.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Right, Like he was the bad man for a very
long time.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
And Ithaca Holdings like kind of was in a lot
of hot water, but it simmered off.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
It was chill.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
And then they merged with Hybe, which we also covered
on the show, which is a no understatement, giant entertainment company.
That is the company from South Korea that brought the
world BTS and a number of other K pop bands.
So they merged together in a billion dollar merger in
twenty twenty one, and now Scooter, as of January this year,
(33:37):
is the CEO of Hybe America, which you know, the
American division of an entertainment company is going to be
exceedingly busy, and it is a company that is being
looked at by many in the music business as a
wonder and something to look at all the time. So,
now that you got all the background, here's what hasn't
happened in a Scooter In the last couple of weeks.
(33:58):
Scooter has been rapidly losing his clients one by one,
basically his bread and butter as a manager. Basically, he
notably before all these other ones started leaving. He's notably
lost two within the last year, which I'm going to
cover before we get to what I we consider, you know,
some of the biggest losses all at once. So Scooter's
(34:21):
management company is called SB Projects, which got to give
it to him. He is humble SB Projects. Basically, they
have all these clients underneath them that Scooter is the
head of this management company, meaning they have teams of
people that work with these all these other people as
well as Scooter. But you know, earlier this year they
(34:44):
had lost which I didn't know this. They lost Na Menzel,
the famous Broadway star, which I didn't know she was
managed by Scooter. But that was cool. Everybody usually knows
her from Wicked and then Latin superstar Ja in May
actually who left to go to Rock Nation, which is
(35:04):
owned by jay Z. So that was kind of like,
let's say, that was the writing on the wall, and
so what's kick started a lot of this controversy is
that the other clients he's lost literally within the last weeks,
which have kind of been like ride or dies with Scooter,
which is Demi Levado and longtime client Ariana Grande, who
(35:25):
have both left him this month. Demi said that the
split was amicable why Arianna says they left on quote
friendly terms but wanting something new, which was kind of
interesting because this is actually not the first time that
Ariana has left Scooter, but she's been with Scooter since
(35:46):
twenty thirteen, so like literally since Ariana has kind of
been on the come up with her music, Scooter's been
right there with her. She did leave him like literally
for maybe like a month or two in twenty sixteen,
a couple months something like that and get an exact thing,
but she came back, so like, you know, it's kind
of like a it's kind of like a real life
(36:06):
breakup where it's like, you guys came back. All right,
there's nothing else we can do anymore, you know what
I mean. We broke up before, now we're bringing up again.
I don't know, you know. Anyway, it's very tea filled
because there's some insiders that, according to Vox, claim that
SBB that Arianna is actually still under contract, which I
(36:27):
thought was really interesting. And you want to know how,
like Ada left field, this was Scooter Braun Projects social
media was actively promoting her new album literally minutes before
she started talking about that she was leaving Scooter, So
something was some wires were crossed and it was not
(36:48):
looking good, especially since Scooter is known for being a
very calculated guy who you know, has all these business dealings.
So there's a lot of allegation going on specifically Arianna,
which I thought I should cover, But like this is
kind of an example of some of the other things
that some people have alleged with Scooter Braun Projects. Basically,
(37:11):
there's been a lot of allegations around Scooter bron Projects
of not being kind of attentive at the wheel, specifically
in or Arianna's situation. They were allegedly kind of blaming
them for not helping her navigate her most recent controversy,
which if you don't know anything about that, Ariana recently
(37:34):
divorced her husband, and there was a lot of backlash
around that because she immediately started dating her Wicked co
star because she's on Broadway and Ethan Slater is a
guy's name, and Slater recently separated from his longtime partner
and mother of his recently born son. So there was
a lot of like disgruntle fans that the other spouses
were not happy about their relationship and everything. So she
(37:57):
was getting pulled under the rug like she had a
new album out and.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Like nobody cared. Everybody was like, what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (38:05):
You know, And so it's been alleged that supposedly Ariana's
team was not happy because Scooter Scooter's company did not
help them try to navigate this with the press and
everything like that, and she really got. That's honestly the
last thing I heard about Ariana Rose that she had
this whole thing, and people literally were being you know, well,
(38:26):
however you think about it, People were saying stuff like, oh, well.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
You know, she got with this guy and broke up
a marriage. She broke up her own.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Marriage, so it was bad, right, But like that's kind
of the main vibe that a lot of people have
alleged is that Scooter bron Projects has a little bit,
for lack of a better term, been asleep at the wheel.
On top of that, I just mentioned Demi and Arianna
because they're some of the biggest ones that Scooter has.
Representatives for Joe's Favorite Carly Ray, Jebson, Baby Jake, and
(38:54):
Asher Roth confirmed to the Associated Press that these artists
no longer work with Scooter and haven't for quite some time,
So we're up to five artists so far. It is
also alleged that Scooter Braun Projects and Scooter have little
contact with Bieber anymore. With Justin Bieber, which literally was
his bread and butter client, Puck News Matthew Bellianni reported
(39:22):
that Justin Bieber was looking for new management after a
silent split from Scooter Braun on August eighteenth, although he
is still listed as a client on the SBP website,
although that lists past and current clients, which is an
important distinction there.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
But none of this has been confirmed.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
But it's kind of a mess because, literally, like I
was saying, Scooter's bread and butter is alleged.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
To be leaving.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Demi's been with him for a very long time. Ariana
is one of his biggest artists. He has all of
these other artists that are leaving. He's had other artists
that have left this year, and nobody really knows what's
going on. But the one thing we do know what's
going on is that Scooter is currently stepping into his
role as CEO of HYB America and plans to stay
(40:12):
there for you know, the foreseeable future. They have very
big plans, especially with going into the Latin music scene,
and have very big ambitions. So that's kind of the
main thing we know is that he's taking a lot
of responsibility on And the main thing that Scooter's team
has said is that they have made a statement stating
(40:32):
that he would be stepping back from hands on management,
which Vox puts it probably the best quote. It makes
sense then that multiple clients who've been long used to
personal caretaking from Braun might have soured on the prospect
of less one on one approach and one to move on,
which is actually really notable because Vox also puts this,
(40:53):
and I've read this other places as well. Scooter is
very well known for having a one on one mentor
kind of type style with artists. He's very known for
a personal touch with artists and working with them one
on one all the time, So it would make sense
that that could be a big factor, especially if Scooter
has been relying more on his team to do more
(41:17):
of the managing than he has. And you know, Scooter
Brown's a big name and obviously he's very well respected
and very well respected among his clients. So this big
of a change and roster is huge. I kind of
want to put it on this again, Scooter is one man.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
One man. Yeah, you cannot be. You cannot be.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I my honest opinion about this, and I will Joe will
give you time to speak about this as well. He's
just got too much on goddamn plate. And uh, he definitely,
I mean, he's already made the call that he's stepping
back from hands on management. Could this kind of have been,
you know, foreseen that clients were gonna have issues, Absolutely,
(42:07):
and maybe that could have been handled better. But at
the end of the day, people are given all these
conspiracy theories given his reputation with Taylor Swift that you know,
it's because Scooter bron is an asshole. Everybody hates Scooter everybody,
and I go, no, don't know this guy. They've been
with them for years. I mean, like all of these
clients have been with them for years.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
I think it's just doing too much. Yeah, it's I mean,
you know, obviously, like there's a personal touch to the
way that he handles clients I guess for like a
decade if you like. But it does seem like this
is more of like a business parting of like the
actual company rather than honestly, the Ariana one seems the
(42:48):
most like personal.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
I mean that one's very personal and it has brought
up a personal situation if you're interested. I'm gonna put
it below, as we do with all our sources. But
this Vox article about it, it's probably one of the
best ones I've found because they really lay out all
of the relations and they even go into the Taylor
Swift drama if you don't know anything about that. But
one of the points they do make in the article
(43:11):
is that all of these artists may have their own reasons,
you know. One of the main things that were said
was like, for instance, Demis had a lot going on
in their life, like they came out as non binary,
they had to go back into rehab, you know what
I mean. So there's a lot going on in their life.
So maybe they decided, oh, I don't want this style
(43:32):
of management anymore. And currently they're just going through their
back catalog and kind of re recording in rock styles,
you know, which is not, in my opinion, the Scooter
Bronze style of all guns ahead, I'm gonna make you
the biggest pop artist.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Like it seems like, let's take like what Scooter Bron's
nemesis did well.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
And it's so funny because Scooter is allegedly the one
that was telling Taylor to re record the asters, and
I believe that she even admits that. The Taylor even
admits that. But another point that was brought up as
well is other than you know, people having their own reasons,
is that when Hybe and Ithaca Holdings, which is Scooter's company,
(44:19):
merged together, there were very large payouts to different people
in the grand scheme of scooters clients per variety. Some
clients like Bieber and Grande walked away with eleven million
dollars in shares from the deal. Others like Balvin and
Levada received much less. Levada received just one million dollars
(44:41):
so quotas Vox puts it. The unequal payouts have fueled
speculation that perhaps money disputes drove the walkouts, though no
sources have confirmed this, so there could be just maybe
bad blood there, you know what I mean, There's a
lot going on in this situation that I feel, like,
in know can be rolled into. Oh well, Scooter's got
(45:05):
his own problems personally and how he manages his business.
That's fine, but I definitely think some of these other
ones are huge more you know, optimes Razor type things
that a man can't be the one on one manager
with many a list music star as well at the
same time running one of the most sought after and
(45:28):
wonderfilled music companies in the world currently as the CEO.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
And like, yeah, I'm sure you can speak.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Because Joe, like you know, everything with managers is also
just like the segmentation of management as well, like how
it's not just like one guy all the time.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Yeah, I mean sometimes it's like it's hard to delegate, right,
especially with artists who require a personal touch, like I
would say most if you're managing artists, like every artist
is gonna want you to be like personally involved and
invested in their project. So I don't think that that
is necessarily like as crazy. I think it's like different
(46:09):
that like he has his own management company, right, so
he's running it different than like a Red Light Wood
or like some other management company. But it's like it's
one of those it's a situation like where there's no
information and we would have to see what happens. What
(46:31):
I was actually gonna ask allinim like, isn't there I
don't know if this was rumored or if this was true,
But wasn't Bieber's uh like law team like filing a
lawsuit against Scooter.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
I hadn't seen anything confirmed about that specifically on Bieber.
I mean kind of going into the thread that.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Might that might have been not true, well fair, but there.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Was specifically Bieber.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
I will say, like his main things that people have said,
like his personal points for instance, are you know, obviously
when we've covered on the show, Bieber has kind of
stepped back a lot. He's had a lot of health issues,
you know, so maybe he's just trying not to be
you know, in a management contract anymore, right, Like maybe
he could step away do this Ramsey Hunt syndrome that
(47:19):
he has. So like, there's a lot going on in
this and it's just I think, you know, it's one
of those things where I feel like, for lack of
a better term, like I said, Akab's razor the most likely,
you know, easiest path of less resistance. It's probably is
probably the most likely. I do think that, you know, obviously,
(47:42):
artists have their own thing. But I just think that
Scooter probably you know, for his own career has been
less personal with all of these A list stars due
to having an entire Scooter Ron project management company. Right,
He's been more removed. He's stepping into a role that
usually people just have to do by themselves. They don't
(48:06):
do anything else other than be a CEO, right Like
maybe they're like on a charity board, right Like it's
not just like, oh, you're running three successful company.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
No.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
So, like I think Okham's razor, like it might just
be that he spread himself too thin. A lot of
these artists feel like they haven't had the personal scooter
touch and maybe they cause maybe they cause their own
kind of you know, uh rolling hill if you will,
going on when they announced, Hey, Scooter's personally you know,
(48:36):
as a company, we will say this out loud, now
Scooter's not gonna be involved as much anymore. And then
everyone was like, Okay, well, let's get our ducks in
a row and figure out what we're doing because we're
probably gonna have to leave because we want somebody that
has the personal touch like Scooter, and Scooter said, he's
not doing it anymore. So I just think it's it's
been blown out of proportion a lot because of this
(48:59):
drama that he's had with Taylor. Like I think that
there's a lot of people that are rooting that he's
just like, you know, we found the you know, like
we found the evil yeah, right, Like we found the
cauldron that makes him a witch in the back of
his office. Like that's what I feel like people are
waiting to hear, right, Like we found his evil plans
written out on a notebook. But like, I just honestly
(49:23):
think this guy was, it still is very well loved
by a lot of clients. I just think that he
spread himself too thin, you know. And I think after
his company had to literally say out loud, hey, we're
spreading ourselves too thin. Scooter can't be involved personally anymore.
A lot of clients are.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
Like, what am I here for? I was here for Scooter,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Well, and also too, I think like the the fact
of the matter is like if Scooter just didn't manage anymore,
he still had an insane run. When it comes to
these clients, Oh yeah, if.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Scooter was just desiring, like it would just be like
I feel like everyone would go all right, you know,
they're all leaving because.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
He doesn't like the type of guy that would ever retire.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Here probably isn't. I see him as like a David Geffen,
Like he's just gonna keep going. I mean literally, he's
stepping into the role of this mythical merger right to
run this label that has so much capital and so
much hype around it. Right, And so this is if
(50:33):
anyone thinks this is a downgrade, this is an up
and up scenario. To get out of management into the
top of.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
The c suite.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Absolutely an upgrade, right because you're at the whell of
you know, you just got to convince you know, obviously
it's higher stress because you're gotting convinced the shareholders. But
the benefits and the luxuries that are offered to you
more than being you know, the top of your own company,
to be in a publicly traded company. Oh my god,
what a different world, right, So yeah, he he's stepping
(51:05):
up right, Like I would not consider like obviously the
situation you know, on paper, if I just said Scooter's
losing all his clients, Oh wow, that is bad.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
But like when you think of the.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Context of where Scooter's going, it's insane, right, Like, this
is stuff I've been talking about on the show forever
and like not to hype it up literally punintended, I guess,
but like this company, like you know, people were trying
to trade the stock when it first came out, and
it's hundreds of dollars now and you don't see that
(51:38):
a lot in a music public corporation. So yeah, Warner
trades for like thirty four dollars to share. This trade's
for like two hundred and fifty dollars to share. So
it has a lot of market hype and a lot
of you know, upper echelon potential that Scooter can capitalize
if they run it. Well, he's you know, obviously part
(52:00):
of the American Arm. But guess what. The American arm
is very important in an entertainment company.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
Hm.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Anyway, Joe, I just thought, you know, I mean, and
lastly kind of getting the logistics of everything. Like, It's
one thing that I think a lot of people forget
is that there's a reason that we call them artists teams.
Speaker 3 (52:25):
Right, there's a reason.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
You know, Scooter I'm.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Sure is very talented based on what all these people
say about him and everything and what he's done for.
Speaker 3 (52:36):
These people in these careers.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
He's helped Foster, right, But these teams are really what
like have kept the day to day going. I mean
we personally, I know, between the two of us, know
much muchne fathoms of magnitude. Smaller clients that are too
busy by themselves now that they have to have a
(52:58):
day to day manager and then they have to have
a overall manager. Right, And so I can't even imagine
if you were at like, you know, Ari on a
grande level, the amount of people that are in.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
To have what was it like, I mean maybe a
bad example, but Taylor Swift had like a team of managers. Right,
It's like the same level. Right, It's like you get
to a certain threshold and you literally are like it
is a whole group effort. It cannot physically be one person. Yeah,
it's just not possible.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yeah, And that's like what I want to hit on
here is like I don't think any of that in
Scooter's case is an a regularity at all. I would
even argue that it's extremely fostered in the music business
to have this you know, kind of teamwork mentality a manager.
I think because of the public perception of management, everybody
(53:54):
always assumes that, like everyone's manager is like one guy
who runs all the shots, you know what I mean,
or one girl that runs all of the shots, and
they call everybody and they do everything personally. And that's
just not the case, Like they give you out this
stuff now, like it's just too much for one person
(54:15):
most of the time. And usually you know, it's a
two man, a three man, a four man team, you know,
for some of these bigger artists. So obviously at the
same time that you know, people are coming down and
be like Scooter, why are you not personally involved? Which
we've kind of covered why Scooter is are personally involved anymore.
He's got a very big responsibility stepping into At the
(54:36):
same time, if you're listening to this, this is not
an irregularity, Like this is a very normal thing in
these big management companies where they go, this person's my manager,
and then I go, who deals with you eighty five
percent of the time? Is it that guy? No, it's
that guy, Okay, so that's your day to day manager.
(54:58):
That's the person that mostly deals with How are they?
Speaker 3 (55:01):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (55:02):
And so obviously these bigger managers do big things, they
have huge connection. This is Scooter Broun, Like he could
open doors all the time with just a phone call
that maybe one of these lower day to day managers
would have to, you know, have a leap and a
prayer to get right, which is the power of having
this kind of big and small thing. But at the
same time, he's not involved with all the minutia because
(55:26):
at the end of the day, some of it it's
just beneath Scooter, you know what I mean, Like be like, oh,
why do I have to negotiate every venue?
Speaker 3 (55:33):
You've got this? You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (55:34):
You negotiate pay out of the venue. I've done this
a thousand times, you know. So it's I think it's
come down to this media perception with Scooter, which you know,
you can think about how he did with Taylor Swift
however you want. But like, at the end of the day,
I think it's really come down to Scooter's one man,
(55:55):
and I think there's a lot of misinterpretation about how
many people are actually.
Speaker 3 (56:00):
Your manager, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
Like they just always think it's that, you know, one
guy or girl in the back going like.
Speaker 3 (56:06):
I'm with you to it's to the end.
Speaker 2 (56:08):
You know, were you together since I found you in
that nightclub and sixty three?
Speaker 3 (56:13):
You know? And it's like, no, it's not like that.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
Well what kind of a nightclub music you've been listening to?
Speaker 3 (56:24):
Calling? Oh god, I'm trying to find it right now?
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Night core? Nightcore music.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
I saw this video I was on TikTok and it
was like the stupidest video. It was like twenty four hours,
but the video was like every time my dog shows
up in the frame, it speeds up nightcore.
Speaker 3 (56:42):
So it's just like silence and it's.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Like that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (56:47):
It's so good and it's like at eight times speed.
So like the video is like insane, how fast the
dog is running around. Anyway, keep going, Jobe, what are
you've been listening to?
Speaker 1 (56:57):
I've been listening to the new Omar Apollo single I Slippin'.
I think like it's one of his best songs in
my opinion, it's just such a good track. I also
discovered this artist. I had no idea how big this
person was, but Sid Siria. So I'm watching this shri
(57:19):
Rum Sid shre Rum. He's an artist from America but
actually huge in India and he's scored like tons of
like Bollywood films and stuff. But like he's kind of
He just released a record called Sid Hearth and it's
(57:40):
like a bit more. It seems to be like cattering
more towards like an American audience, but some of the
songs on there are amazing, Like that's just the production
and the just so we're aware, like how out of
it I am. This man has twelve million monthly listeners,
which is insane, crazy that I have not heard of
(58:05):
him before. But yeah, very he's fine. He's very successful,
but the music is he is pretty great. And then
been listening a lot to Alison Pattier's record called Shaking
Hands with Elvis her EP. I actually just love everything
(58:27):
about the rollout of that EP, but also the creative
and just the songs in general. It's it's just it's all.
It just makes sense and it's just really really well done.
So good.
Speaker 3 (58:42):
Well.
Speaker 2 (58:43):
I've been feverously googling right now because there's this band
that's kind of big on TikTok and their their name
is Sakka Nate Nashan, which is their Japanese band. I'm
trying to tell you what the name of this song is,
but I can't copy paste from YouTube music because it's
(59:03):
an all Japanese, so I can't tell you what the
song is. But it's been really big on TikTok and
I've been listening to it and I really like it
because everybody's joke with it. It's just like, oh, it's
the end of the anime where like the main villain
has just been like ripped his heart out, and then
the credits role and they're like all dancing at the
end of it. Like that's like the vibe of this music. Yeah,
(59:24):
but I really like it. Other than that, I was
I'm really gonna I'm just gonna fly through Collins random thing.
So I was listening also to George Straight all my
exes live in Texas. Always always a good one, A
karaoke favorite of mine.
Speaker 1 (59:41):
A classic.
Speaker 2 (59:43):
It's just me playing a character, man, But I'll just
that's how I eat it up at karaoke. If it's
if I feel like I'm in a character, that's when
I eat it up a karaoke. And then the other
one is I'm almost been a Stevie Wonder with his
last I didn't know this, but this is his last
number one ever, which is a part time I'm lover
you and me my partam lover. But yeah, that's that's
(01:00:07):
what I've been listening to. Oh my god, wait wait wait, wait, okay,
so I've talked about this band before. This is exactly
what this is. I cannot I'm losing my mind right now,
so freaking speaking of TikTok changing the Internet, I've talked
about this song on the I cannot believe I listening
to this right now. But there is a band called
Local Eighth I've talked about on this show and they
(01:00:31):
just released literally just as I saw this, just looking
through my music. They just listened to their one of
their like most angsty songs, which is called Bound for
the Floor, and it's sped up and I cannot believe
that there's a sped up version of this. This is
a six minute song usually, but it's oh yeah God,
or a three minute song.
Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
God? What the fuck? How is this sped up? Anyway?
TikTok Wait, you know what.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Collin's going to be listening to, So tune in, next
tune and next time.
Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
You learned to except it now if you won't, we get.
Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
It and you just don't get it social media? Do
I have to say anymore?
Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Anyways? Guys, thank you for listening to The Busday. We
hope to see it next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.