Out Of Context: LL Cool J And Charlamagne Tha God

Charlamagne Tha God sits with the Icon LL Cool J to discuss his illustrious 40 year career. From being hip hop's first solo superstar, learning how to rap again, the infamous battle and friction he's had with Jay Z, his various rap beefs and run in with ICE T, the legacy of Russell Simmons and Def Jam, surviving the streets of NYC in the 90's, and why objectively he should be on everyone's Top 5 of all time list. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Get it.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Let's get it. LL cool J, my brother good. I
want to set my intentions for this conversation before we
get started. I want people to watch this conversation, and
when it's over, I want them to say to themselves,
damn objectively, regardless how they may feel personally, who's their
personal favorites? Objectively, you can't have any top five greatest

(00:29):
of all time discussions without mentioning LLL cool J.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yo, I take it. I take that all day.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Man.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Can I argue with that?

Speaker 2 (00:37):
And one of the reasons I say that is because
you are by far hip hop's first major superstar. People
could say you are a prototype for what became the
formula for success in rap. You had the streets, you
had the women, and you had songs for both of them.
So with that said, why do you think L COOLJ
isn't in those conversations?

Speaker 1 (00:56):
I would say, you know, first of all, I feel
like I First of all, let me just say I
feel appreciated, and I feel respected and I feel loved.
I think that you know, any in any art form,
in any genre, you know ultimately you know there are
different dynamics at work when people hear people like so
you know, the Internet ushered in a different came in

(01:18):
during a different era, so it documented things on a
different level. So some people who weren't there to necessarily
witness certain things might not be aware. But my job,
like is not to really harp on what people don't know,
is to show them what they should know and teach
them what they should know.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
So it's like, that's the whole point of me making
new music, just to get out there, to let them
see what it's like to have me on the court,
so to speak. You know what I'm saying, to see
me out there balling. And the difference is, you know,
this isn't sports, this is art, and in art, you
know it's about the mind, the soul, the emotions. You
be connected to what you create. So you could do

(01:54):
that at a high level at any point. And I
think that's my that's my goal and my objective right now,
show people that you can take a hiatus from something,
do it, do something else, and then re emerge and
do it.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
At a high level.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
So you know, we'll get to it, they'll learn most most.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Critics will consider it risky though, because of your icon status,
to release a new album so long.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
After your last one. What would you say, I'd say
that's the whole point. Like, that's the fun part of it.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
It's like, listen, there is no great artists, great athlete,
or great any anybody that's great at anything if you
cannot be great if you're not willing to be vulnerable.
And this vulnerability comes from having the strength and the
courage to go after what it is that you want
and risk looking foolish in the process.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Lebron doesn't get the last shot.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Steph Curry doesn't take the last shot if he's worried
about his legacy. Right, Kobe don't take the last shot
if he's worried about his legacy. Lebron stops playing three
four years ago if he's worried about his legacy. But
because he wants to push the envelope. You're having a conversation.
Look at what this guy can do in year twenty,
Look what he can do in year five, Right, you
see what I'm saying. So to me, it's like, that's

(03:01):
the fun of it. Like I love that challenge. I
look like I am. That's what's that's what makes it
worth it.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (03:09):
So, what is legacy the ll cool, Yo, I got it.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
You know what's funny, man? You know.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Nobody gets a chance to come back and say, yo,
correct my tombstone. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Like yo, yo, yes, that that's not what I meant.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Naw. So it's like none of us really know what
our legacy is because why do we know that? Because
if you put a picture of a glass of water
on the internet, they're gonna argue over that, right, And
people rounded it. Oh, people used it to sustain life.
People wanted plans with it, nine people. So I don't
it doesn't matter. What matters is what you do in
the moment. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
What are you doing in the moment right now with
your life? You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
So what I want to do is just maximize my potential.
Then you let you let the world decide all that.
There'll be generations after us that can have all them
debates and all them conversations.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
To pop your shit a little bit though, put out
of doubt because you see the top five list and
there's people that came after you. They'll put on the
top five list and it's almost like you know, they're
discrediting you. In a in a sense, So you gotta
care about the recognition.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Well, I do care about the right. No, no, no, I
definitely care about the recognition. No, no, absolutely, I just like, like,
you know what you're saying. It's like sometimes you hear
Floyd say, Yo, everybody's entitled to their opinion. That's really
how I feel, like, I really don't care about that shit, man, Like,
if that's what you like, that's what you like, baby,
Like you know what I mean. Like my job is

(04:37):
to touch the people who love L and who fuck
with L, not to be worried about who messages with
this one or that one, Like you know what I'm saying, Like,
it doesn't, it doesn't affect my spirit on my vibe
because if it did, listen, man, to get the way
I've been in life and to get do the things
out do, you gotta have thick skin, bro, Like you know,

(05:00):
i'd i'd have been.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
At a ball with my thumb in my mouth and
a blanky a long time ago if I was really
worried about these lists and people's opinions, because nothing is
ever gonna be perfect, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
So look, I think that history will shine kindly on me.
You know that at the end of the day, like
you gotta remember, like you're talking to look, death Jam
had there was Death Jam Productions. The label was Party
Times street Wise. They had a song by Tila Rock
called It's Yours.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
I bought that. I bought that song, that.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Song, I took it, wrote, made a demo centered into
Rick Rubin, Me Russell and Rick. We ended up starting
Death Jam, right. They they it was their label.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
I was the flagship.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Artist, right, so everything that came after me, you know
my first You know, you're talking to a guy whose
first single drop to eighty four and people, and I'm
still like relevant in the world globally.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
I can't. I can't complain.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
And if you think about everybody that came after Death Jam,
out of death Jam on death Jam, like I mean,
I basically ushered in the whole modern era of hip hop,
right and grew up watching Flash and the Treacherous and
the Crash Crew and the Feelers. Form was at those parts,
like at their shows and seeing them and listening to

(06:21):
the tapes and the blends and the mixes. So I've
been a fan from day one and then helped usher
in a new era as well, so I don't really
have any beef. You know, I feel real good about
my standing in this culture.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
You know, I wanted to ask you about Death Jam too, because,
as you just mentioned, you were a staple at Death Jam,
and I would always thought they should have renegotiated your
contract to make.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
You more of an owner.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
But I catalog.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Oh okay, okay, I.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
Own my catalog.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
When you see Mama Sitt knock you out in the movie,
I licensed that, you know what I'm saying, like people,
you know.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
People, people are under depression. Oh boy, like listen man.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Because that was the time back in the day artists
were getting gotten.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Nah, but see, not all artists. That speaks. That's not
a broad general thing.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
That speaks to certain executives taking advantage of certain people.
One thing I can say about Russell and Leo. Look
and Russell, he didn't make a bad deal early. And
then Leo, he drives a hard bargain, but he'll give
it to you when you earn it and knows I
can't front on the guy. People can say what they
want about him, but at the end of the day,
I do own my catalog, and I do you know,

(07:31):
you know, have a huge interest, you know in what
I do. You know what I mean. Yeah, there's other
samples and different things, but I own all my stuff.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
So it's like I can't complain with that.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
The Kobe deal for you, Like, did they give you
that because like, Okay, this was our franchise artist. This
is the guy who put us on the map here
to take all your masters and everything else.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
Well, it wasn't really that.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
It was I was at a point where I was
my deal was up and we had you know, it
was like we got to find a way to make
it right, so and just our relationship and we just
made a good deal and that was part of it.
So you know, I'm I'm good, like you know what
I mean, Like I really am in a good place

(08:11):
in that way, you know what I'm saying. Not to
mention all the other things that I do as well,
so you know, I can't.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
We're gonna get into that. Yeah, do you feel slightly
that it took so long for them to put you
in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Not really, because I understand that a major part of
my appeal, you know, especially in something especially on a
commercial level, was geared towards women. It was black women,
all women of all races, but it was a lot
of black women, a lot of difference. And because of that,
you know, you just got some dudes that you know,
you know that ain't you know, they want you to

(08:45):
you know, if you ain't burning the flag or you know,
being a revel in a different way, they want to
not necessarily give that. You know, everybody doesn't recognize the
artistry that comes with that. They think it's like there's
some kind of trick to that. But there you got
to really make them songs.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
They don't see the value in it.

Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah, you got to really write I Need Love.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
You have to really write around the way girl, Like,
you really got to write these songs.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
You got to write lounge. You got to write doing it.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
You can't just you know, that doesn't just show up
because you took your shirt off, like you you know,
I take my shirt off. You know the song is
bullshit When I took my shirt off like that. It
doesn't work like that. Like, you actually have to write
the songs, so you know what I mean. Like, so
for some of them dudes in the Hall of Fact
at that time, especially when you hear in retrospect, because

(09:30):
that was an old regime. Remember that's not the new regime.
The new regime, they're rocket you know what I'm saying.
But that was another guy, and he had a whole
nother mindset, so you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
That's interesting. So you're saying that they probably didn't respect
the art like they should have because of your sex
simple status. Yes, that's crazy because you hear that conversation
from women, you don't really hear that from a man's perspective.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Of course, it's real though, it's real. It's like you
know there, you know, like it's just part of the game,
right like at that time, Like in terms of those
song you know what I'm saying, Like they want, you know,
fight the power and only fight the power, you know
what I mean respectfully, you know what I'm saying, Like
they you know, just think about who got in and
why with sex cells. Yeah, but that's not necessarily you know,

(10:16):
let me let let's keep it.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Really, if if.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
You got a dude that feels like he's living his
life making a pinky promise, the last thing, the last
thing he wants to do is put you know, the
young bull and the you know on the frame.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
That's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Hey honey, Hey, hey honey, look at this guy. Let's uh,
let's uh, let's keep him.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Out of the Yeah, yeah, let's start.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
Uh yeah, let's not uh.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
You know, man, does it feel well?

Speaker 1 (10:52):
How?

Speaker 3 (10:52):
I love that remix?

Speaker 2 (10:58):
I'm grave. So you kept your shirt on mores when
they a lot okay, been a.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Lot easier, bro like like shirts on and you know
then you were not the women. It's like whatever, you know,
It's like, you know, like showed up to a cocktail
party with your tuxedo opened at a six pack with
your shirt. It probably won't go over well with some
parts of the crowd, but you embraced the door like
who's he?

Speaker 2 (11:27):
It is crazy, but you embraced the door like I
always heard methhan Man say he shunned his sex symbol status.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
Youmbracey, God damn right. Absolutely I loved it. Yeah why not?
I ain't no shame of mine.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Listen, listen, man, When I grew up, you know, I
grew up liking the girls, liking you know, you know.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
I thought, you know, that was our goal as kids.
You know, we wasn't like in it to.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
Not have them.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, I wasn't to not have no, like you know,
it wasn't like I was running around doing everything, but
I definitely was looking and it was interested, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
So that's the way I.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Look at it, you know, I mean, you know, the
feel strange that this generation may know you more from
NCIS than your music.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Actually it's an amazing thing because it's like it just
it's proof that you could do anything, that you can
reinvent yourself on so many different levels. And you know, look,
I got two crowds, man, I got two crowds when
it comes to me, to my audience musically, It's the
don't call it a comeback crowd who absolutely knows what
I do, and it's the he raps crowd.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
Right. I'm very aware of both of them.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
I know when somebody's looking at me, they're like, oh,
he raps it, you know, Oh he hosted, I like
it shop with, I love it all. It's like, but
music is my first love, you know what I'm saying,
Music is my first love. But nah, that doesn't because
look at the end of the day, saying when you
hear artists like bitching and moaning and crying and complaining
about generations.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
Not knowing them It's like, man, make a rack it,
you know, make some music.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Then you got a problem with people not knowing you
for something, then do something about it.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
Make some music. Wanna sit over your crown, ain't gotta know.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
And you know, art, the arts are kind of there
is a what have you done for me lately? Factor
that always plays into art as it moves through the
through through the continuum of time, you know what I'm saying.
So there's gonna be certain generations that are not as
aware if you're not current and if you don't put

(13:29):
out current shit. So my job is lokoj is to
put out a current album and give them a current
idea of what I think artistically, which will cause them
to look back at some of the things and go
dig into Go google my shit and get into my
older videos and get into my early stuff. They can
get that history. But you gotta do some new shit.

(13:49):
You know what I'm saying, Like, no excuses, you can't
you know, you know, you know, like I said on
one of my songs, on Passion, I was like, no excuses.
You better better be easy, ruthless. You know, a bunch
of paper tigers are toothless. You know that Tony Montana
blueprint is useless. Some people ignore facts that Nigga in
the Nigga and Scarface fell.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
On the map.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
We just act like we don't see that, you know,
asking where the weed at eliminating mids when the speakers.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Get the feedback, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Like it's just like you gotta you just gotta step
into the ship that you do.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Absolutely? You just answer one of my questions. And I
was gonna ask you about you know something Mefi Man
recently said after a performance at Summer Jam, and he
said the generation gap was too wide for him, and
I was gonna ask you, do you ever feel like
you need to make you feel the need to make
music to appeal to this generation.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
No, because you have to. You have to make art
that's true to you. Okay, you know it's true to you.
I don't need like for those who understand the reference.
I don't need the Golden Girls to be acting like
Nicki Minaj.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
You know, let's not do that.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Let's just not do that, you know, let's not go
there with so ill don't need that. I don't need
to get my little Uzi vert on and ship little
yachty on for them.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
You know, I gotta be me and they'll they'll find it.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Listen, at the end of the day, if I'm sixteen
years old.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
Or if I'm nineteen, or if I'm twenty, the only way,
the only way you gonna get my attention is by
the person playing some shit. And that shit is hot
to me. None of that other shit matters.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
The only the fuck what you did. I don't care
how you did it.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
I don't care what you started, what you didn't start
with you, how you Is that shit hot? If it's
hot to me, I'm good, I'm in. If it ain't,
I'm not fucking with it. It's that simple, And that's
that's that's life, you know what I'm saying. So a
lot of these are like like meth like, you know,
that's my man.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
I love him. He's super nice. Is flow crazy?

Speaker 1 (15:45):
My thing with him is is that I get what
he's saying. It was it was the station's job to
kind of think about that when they were curating it,
so that it's seamless to help him out. You know
what I'm saying. You gotta put the p you gotta
line the.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
Pieces up right. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
You gotta line them pieces up right because that audience
could get into their music, but they have to It
has to be sandwiched the right way and presented the
right way to give the audience an opportunity to rack
with them, because this shit is dope. If look if
Mick Jagger can run around at eighty years old and
have four generations in his show, like even me with
my Force Tour, I'm running around. I got three four

(16:21):
generations in the crowd. But those kids were introduced to
the music by somebody. It was laid out for them
a certain way. We did the Grammy fiftieth anniversary. We
had Glow Riller and Little Baby on the same stage.
Republic Enemy, Run, DMC, and Flash. It's doable. It's all
about how you do it, you know what I mean.
It's about execution like anything else, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Whatever a time you were disheartened by the state of.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Hip hop, well yeah, I would say I would say
there was a moment when I felt like right before
I started rock the bells and really started, you know,
like because people have to realize like this.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Whole time timeless resurgence that people are feeling.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
You know, that's because I put it on my back
with Rock the Bells and Rock the Bell's Radio and
went out there and say, you know, I'm gonna throw festivals,
I'm gonna do things. I'm gonna lift these acts up,
and those who are open and allow themselves to receive
the blessing will be lifted up.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
Right.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
So I felt like our music was, our culture was
being commoditized, you know what I'm saying. I felt like,
you know, if Mick Jackie can be respected, and if
Bruce Springstein can be respected, then so can Rock Kim,
and so can Chuck d and so can you know,
countless others, Queen Las, you name them.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
And so.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
That was a moment. But I did something about it. See,
I'm a big believer in you know, don't talk about it,
be about it, mint and if you have an issue,
if you got something that's a problem to you, address
that shit.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Dudes, be you know, crying and bitching and morning then
go home and sleep, you know, get high, smokes wig,
cross the motor. Next day, get high again, cross the ball.
It's like, Nah, if you got a problem, do something
about it. So I did something about it, and I
think that it really works. It led to all of
the things you see from you know, you know, draying them,

(18:11):
all of them rocking and killing the super Bowl to
all these artists and this research is you see it,
you know, different artists doing all these things that all
emanated from that decision that I made with Rock the Bells.
So again you're welcome, you know what I'm saying. But
that was the vibe, you know what I mean, Do
something about it. If you have an issue, and that's
in life in general. If you find you passionate about

(18:34):
something or angry or frustrated about something, lean into that shit.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
That's your calling.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Let's ex found on that because I had a question
about Rock the Bells. Man, when you look back at
the version of yourself who recorded the song rock to Bells,
and now you look at the man you are today
and the Rock the Bells brand you created that you
were just talking about the demand in that booth recording
the song Rock the Bells back in the eighties. Envision
this hell no, okay, he don't know, Well, what's the
connection between the two, Like, why did you chose to

(19:00):
use that song title for this brand above all all
other songs.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Well, a few, a few times, a few things. It
was a few things. First of all, you know they
do back then. He just wanted some new sneak and
some cars and you know, some jewelry I didn't want.
I was very simple, pretty easy to you know, maybe
a little red lobster.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Or something that was fine dining back in the day.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
Though the finest, Yeah, it was the finest.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
They might have been playing hockey with the steak in
the kitchen, but we felt great about the ship, you
know what I mean. But as far as uh, why
that name, It started off with those guys who originally
had the Rock the Bells festival. Originally they had they
took my song. You know, a lot of things come
for me, like Rock the Vote.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
That was Rock the Bells. You know a lot of
things come from.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
So so they those guys they had Rock the.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
Bells and then so that was cool. I didn't say nothing.
I left alone.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
And then then one day they caught me up and
they offered me, you know, let's just let's just call
it ten dollars for a show.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
Let's just call it that.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
I ape the perform in the show called Rock the Bells.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah, and when they when that when that when when
my team told me that I was looking at the phone,
I said, I want my IP back. It just it
fucked me up. It was like it just it rubbed
me wrong, you know what I mean. So I just
went and took the I P back.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
You know what I'm saying. I said, yeah, let me
get that, and then I said, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (20:16):
Then I said, yo, let me you.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
Know, motherfucking fucking out of here.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
So, uh so I I took it back and then
we started rolling with it. So that's really the real
reason why it ended up being that. So it could
have been any song, but that my inspiration came from
that first first I felt like, yo.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
Like listen, it's kind of like.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
You know, like you know, people take kindness for weakness
and sometimes they take leniency for stupidity.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
I'm being lenient with you. So you think I'm stupid?

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah you know what I mean that they're gonna call
you this.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're really a sucker, Like you know,
I kind of thought you were, but now yeah, let
me call you in. So I was like, you know what,
I took it back. So anyway, I say that to say,
that's why it ended up being rocked the bells. But
my desire to lift up those other artists and to
see them respecting and elevated that came from me, you
know what I'm saying, and lifting that up, And obviously

(21:21):
the song was you know my shit, you know, So
that's what it was.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
It's impossible to talk about you as just the hip
hop artists in regards the people who have helped the
culture move forward because of all the success you've had,
you know, in television and in film. So how important
was your appearance and Crush Groove to your career launching
to another level and taking hip hop to another level?

Speaker 3 (21:42):
So Crush grew that the movie.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
The film, it was about Russell's life and run Demse's life,
and it was hugely important.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
First of all, the only reason there was two things.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
First of all, I overslept for my I Can't Live
without my radio video because I was hanging out all
night doing so I had a show. I had a show,
so I didn't wake up in the morning, so Russell's
screaming and all that, so the.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Video didn't happen. Then after that. I wasn't even supposed
to be in that movie. In the in the movie
Crush Crew, I was an extra.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
I went down there, my man and Cornell may he
rest in peace. You tell me yo, go down there
every day, go down to the set. I'm like, you
know what, Yeah, you're right, because I'm you know, I
had left home when I was sixteen. I you know,
my grandmother didn't understand me pursuing my music. I'm sleeping
on the train. I'm like, you know, I got my
green bags on the train.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
I'm riding around trying to figure out what to do next.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Then I went and so I was going down to
the set every day because I you know, it was
either that or stay in the basement with a bunch
of roaches. I was like, fuck it, let me go
down there the set every day. So I was going
down there this set, and one thing left led to another.
I'm down there, you know what I'm saying, talking this
and that, and then finally they gave me a little part.
I was talking that shit and the rest is history.

(22:52):
It launched me because it, you know, it was like
having a national video on a national platform, so it
would be the equivalent of whatever you can think. Think
of now as a national platform for your first visual,
for people to see you first the first time, and
you know, it blew up from there. The album ended
up going platinum and you know, good things happened. Absolutely
it worked out for everybody.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
When you think about movies and music, what's your favorite
movie project of your career?

Speaker 3 (23:18):
My favorite movie hum probably Into Deep in Deep Blue Sea.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
Loved In Too Deep Classic, I told you that before. Yeah,
God is very underrated black movie villain.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Oh yeah, he's like you know you talk about old
dog Bishop, Oh God? To put God in that oh
yeah he was, Yeah, it was it was real. Just
everybody should check that one out Into Deep Yeah, it
was crazy.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Now let's get into the album, Spirit of Cyrus.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
Right.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
The album's called Force, but the intro Spirit of Sirrus.
First of all, you know you addressed police brutality out
the Gate. Who is Cyrus and what inspired you to
address the injustice cops display the black people right out
the gate?

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Okay, so the name of the album is the Force
is an acronym, right, frequency is a real creative energy
and Cyrus, you know, I mean people could go into
history with it. But we were talking really about you know,
the Warriors and Cyrus and this guy who was trying
to bring all of these people together and see good
things happen in his community, even though it was coming
from him being a gang leader, him being all of

(24:21):
these different things, and you know, he ended up going out.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Now, that was a metaphor for the guy that the.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Story was based on, because I was inspired to write
the song based on a guy named Christopher Dorner. He
was an LAPD cop who felt like he was being
a pressed And the reason why I got into the
song is because when I was doing NCIS it should
be people at high levels of law enforcement. I had
some friends at high levels because I did the show
for so many years. This dude called me up. He's like, yo,
el or Todd, Yo, what's up. Don't come outside. I'm like,

(24:53):
don't come outside.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
The fuck that I do? Right, I ain't do nothing.
He's like, nah, you don't understand.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
And he sent me a picture of Christopher Donna and
when I saw it, and he said, look, they're looking
to take this guy dead or alive, and it might
not be alive, so don't.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
Come out because you could be mistaken for him.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
When I saw the picture, I realized how real that was,
and so I went down the rabbit hole. And then
I ended up writing a song because I knew that
there were people that would relate to both sides of
that story.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
And I said, you know what, I'm going to write
this song. And I was inspired.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Me and me and Tip, Me and Q Tip were
in the studio and he had all of these wild
synths and these this track that sounded crazy, and I
just ended up writing that song and the rest is history.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
But it's a it's a it's true.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
It's based on a true event, and it was inspired
by true events. And it was you know, a dude
who just who had had enough and he exploded and
you know, he was like addressing police brutality, blue on
blue brutality, like all of it.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
And so I wrote the.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Song, do you have anybody doing any pushback?

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Like no?

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Hell love? That might affect what you got going on
in Holland would that might affect what you got going
on in television?

Speaker 1 (26:02):
You can't, you know, say that about the police. Well,
I got to be true to the art on this one.
It's not like I was condoning or pushing it away.
I was just letting be in a channel to the art.
You know what I'm saying. It doesn't invite, it doesn't
incite a person one way or the other.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
It's art. It's like a painting.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
It's up to you to look at it and see
or hear what you want to hear. You know, obviously,
I you know, I played law enforcement for years. But
I've also had bad experiences too as a kid growing up.
So it's both right, So I think the song addresses both.
And I think that you know, anybody that's honest and
objective could just listen to it.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
It is what it is, like, It's a song.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
How much responsibility to do artists have the address social issues?

Speaker 3 (26:44):
I don't think.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
I don't think that's an artist is an artist is not.
That's not a prerequisite. That's just like saying, you know,
when when you know, when Michael Angelo sculpted David, did
he have a response.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
Ability to deal with men's health? You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Because they got to do neicked and do standing in
neked like he's on. Michael Angelo has no addressment, Like
you know, artists see what people fail to realize is
creating art that is popular doesn't necessarily mean that you
have evolved in other areas and are necessarily inspired or
educated by or in terms of other areas. You know

(27:24):
what I'm saying. So you gotta let an artist be
an artists. And if you're gonna have people out there
who are very socially conscious, who care about this stuff,
and they will appeal to certain people, but you can't
just say it's your responsibility.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
That doesn't work because that's not just either. You know
what I'm saying. You gotta let people be who they are.
You know.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
You know that's like you know, like saying, like you know,
you can't put red in your hair because.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
You have people that are triggered by red.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
You can't really live your life like that, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Son?

Speaker 1 (27:57):
I think artists do should do what they really feel
for real, like but what they really feel like This
album is what I really feel like. I wasn't trying
to go commercial. I'm not trying to like this ship
is you know what I wanted what I felt inspired
to make, you know.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
A Saturday Night Special to record with Ross and Fat Joe.
It sounds like you were dressing people's egos.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
I want I want to know what's the.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Lesson to be learned in those verses, and did you
have particular people in mind when you were writing those raps?

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Well if the songs, well, look, the the verses for
me were definitely archetypes. And you know, you do have
the dude who's uh, who's greedy and extra sensitive and
pretends not to be offended when he really is, and
you have to watch out for that when you're growing
up or when you're in a boardroom, or when you're
trying to you know, pass the ball when you you know,

(28:47):
in law school or whatever it is you pledging. It
don't matter like you're gonna have people like that. You're
gonna have the dad devil who has to be the
center of attention or they're uncomfortable. You have that person
and they have that Ndia spirit in them all. Whatever
it is that you got to watch out for, you're
gonna have that. You're gonna have different people. But the
song is really about integrity, not moral judgment, not saying

(29:10):
people got to be perfect and shit, but just integrity,
like saying what you mean and meaning what you say.
And you know people say standing on business, Well that's
what it's really about. You know what I'm saying and
being solid, and so that's what the song really addresses.
And then what Joe and Rick do is they give
you examples of different types of characters that say different
types of things. And so Joe will address it one way,

(29:32):
and Rick is showing you an example of that type
of a character.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
I chose to give you the lessons that are to
be learned from those characters.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
And that's kind of what the song is. I like
Black Hold a Lot, Thank you. I think you should
put that out on June teenth. But you know on
Black Hole you said the only crossover you respect is Kyrie. Yeah,
what would you say to people who said you crossed
over them?

Speaker 1 (30:01):
I would say they're right, and I would say it happened,
but it was never intentional.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
It was organic. It was organic. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
It's like kind of like and the reason like you
look at a Kyrie, or you look at a Jordan,
or you look at a Lebron. They did cross over,
but they crossed over doing what they love. They crossed
over doing what's true to them. They didn't pretend to
be somebody else. You know what I'm saying they didn't come,
and you know, Magic didn't come and painted like he

(30:35):
was Loarry Bird and shit to crossover, it's like he
was magic, you know what I mean. So that's my thing,
Like my thing is, you got to be true to
who you are man, you know what I'm saying. Whatever
that is, you got to stand on that. Be yourself,
you know, like that old Oscar Wild quote, be yourself.
Everybody else is already taken. That's real shit. So yeah,
that's that's what I meant, you know what I'm saying.

(30:57):
So yeah, I did cross over absolutely on thousand percent
way over like Silphead Ladies in Montana. I love that show,
but I was doing what I loved, you know what
I'm saying for sure.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
And I also liked the song black Hole just because
it's so black. But I remember I saw you on
the shop and you were saying, you know, one of
the reasons you reached out to the Q tip because
you're working on the album with Dre. You reached out
the Q tip because you said you really wanted like
a black, black Black and the black black album. So
it made me wonder, like, what wasn't Dre giving you
in terms of Blackness.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Oh no, no, no, Dre gave me everything. What it
was was my songwriting wasn't up to Paul when I
was working with Dre.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
Dre gave me some.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Dre gave me some tracks and some so we got
so we got like forty joints.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
It's just my writing.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
I didn't feel like my writing was meeting Dre where
it needed to be, and so before even though I
did call Tip and got with him, in between that time,
I was back in the gym working on my jump shot. Okay,
I was working on my pen game. I was looking
analyzing my writing. I had to learn how to rap again.
I had to learn how to rap again. Wow, you
know what I'm saying. I had to because remember the

(32:02):
game changes, it shifts, it evolves. So the dribble that
was fancy, the Tim Hardaway dribble that was fancy at
one time and he's amazing, it's different from the Kyrie
dribble that's fancy today. Things evolved, so the same with writing,
and when you when you're doing hip hop, you have
to respect the evolution of the game. So I had

(32:22):
to go back and relearn, making sure them couplets were right,
making sure that wordplay was right, making sure those narratives
were correct, making sure that I was expressing myself right.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
And once I worked on that in a real serious.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Way, then I got with Tip and the rest is history,
and we made this amazing body of work that I
feel really good about.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
So when you revisited to doctor.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Dre, one hundred percent trade my man's you know, he
FaceTime me the other day. Man, absolutely, one hundred percent.
I just I just wasn't ready. You know what I'm saying.
He he always that's my men. You know what I'm saying,
Like he always delivers. It's just I'm not gonna put
him in a position, you know what I'm saying where
I'm not all the way there and I'm not giving

(33:05):
him the best. I'm not taking full advantage of our
creative relationship, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
I value our creative relationship.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
Too much for me to be writing some some some
lame shit, some ship that I think is lame and
it's not meeting you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
How do you get to that level of self awareness,
the way you can look at your wraps and be like, yo,
this ship is wack.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
Man.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
I can't see too many people doing that.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, you got a lot of people walking out the
house and outfits when they need to be doing that ship.
You know what I'm saying, Like, Yo, you gotta like, honey,
you see that ship right, Like like people like your
dude walking out he got the camel toe and shit
like you know, the fucking moose knuckle.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
It's like, oh, loose some JESU bro saw yourself you left?

Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, before I left the house, I was like, yo, ma,
this is some moose knuckle shit. Let me you know
this is looking crazy. I'm bending over like my pants
are ripped.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
And anybody that tells you are you just can hear
it yourself.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
You gotta listen to it. You gotta be honest.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
See, I make two types of projects, you know what
I'm saying. Like I said before, I make shit in
a vacuum where I'm just kind of experimenting for.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
Me, and I make cultural albums. I was looking to
make a cultural album. I wasn't.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
I didn't want to get with Dre and do my
experimental thing, because my experimental thing is never the records
that are appreciated by the culture. They're never the ones
that are asked, but they as an artist. They make
me feel good. So it's really a little weird thing
I do. And most of the time that's why after
I do a really really great album, I go do
some weird shit and that's how I work. That being said,

(34:33):
I wanted to make a cultural album this time, so
I had to be writing.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
You got a song called thirty Decemblers. You know, most
people talk about how many summers they got. You said
you had thirty Decembers.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, because I was away a long time. I was
away from New York a long time, and I went
back during the pandemic. Right. I put the black mask on,
I got the hoodie on, I got the shades on,
I got tyms all black. I'm running around like probably
look like a stick up kid or something, right, Like,
they don't know what's going on. But I got to
go everywhere. I was all in the projects. I was
up in the pink houses. I was places they didn't

(35:05):
even know it was me. I'm running around in Coney Island,
you know.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
And I filmed that.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
I documented on the ground and I got inspired. So
I wrote thirty Decembers, you know, being on the subway
and everything I said in the song, like, you know
what I'm saying. The lady sitting next to me don't
want to move her stuff. She don't want to let
me sit down, afraid of how I get down. Ain't
dealing with that shit, now, you know what I mean?
Like all that stuff I said is really what I
went through, you know, and it was deep because the

(35:31):
one thing you forget about in life, you know what
I'm saying, When you like, even if you got a
good job, you forget about danger, you know what I'm saying.
You forget that danger exists. You forget that there's pissy elevators.
You forget that there's people sleeping on the floor dodging bullets.
You forget that there's people swallowing vics because they can't
go to a hospital or going to the emergency room
because they don't feel good. You forget about all that shit,

(35:53):
And that disconnection is part of the reason why artists
aren't able to really give the people what they want.
They start rapping about fucking grateful panna.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Right So so thirty symbol symbolizes the screets in New
York City and how.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
Long it it been since I really was home for real,
not visiting the city, not visiting the city in the suv,
not visiting the city and saying, Yo, I'm from here.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
No, that ain't what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
I'm talking about really, when's the last time you really
sat on the fucking council?

Speaker 3 (36:24):
Was like this shit smell funny, you know what I mean?
Like this smelled funny in this motherfucker.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Or when you walk in the hallway and there's so
many people cooking in the projects, the fucking hallway smells
like God damn tie Italian Irish soul. Fucking your nose
is exploding with the fucking all these smells because it's
all this hooded that.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
Type of shit.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Yeah, I don't think people are aware, especially I know
this generation not, and probably just a lot of people
in the industry. On you came up in a time
in NYC where rappers was running with real people. Let's
just leave it at that, real real the hustles, yeah,
the killings, everything.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (37:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
What did you take from your time spent on blocks
and eat flash flat Bush with hustlers like George Chang?

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Oh man, you know about George Wow stretch my man
stretched from Brooklyn.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
May he rest in peace. It's so funny. Man.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
I used to go out to Brooklyn with with Stretch
all the time. He had his Goal one ninety evens
and like even when I had Rock the Bells. I
remember I was playing Rock the Bells for a bit
of car time. Du was like, we pulled up on
this trew. He's like, yo, it's my man l He
wanted to know if you think he should make this
a record.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
He played it for him.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
He was like, yo, shit is hot.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
So me and Stress were real cool.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
I really hung a lot with with A Z and
Rich and I'll poll with those guys because of my
man Chuck. You know, I used to go uptown, so
I used to be on one three two all the time.
And so those are the guys like the paid in
Full movie, like like like the Paid in Full movie
guys were my real friends. And I was with him
every day. So when I did like walking with a

(37:58):
Panther and you know with the jewelry with the diamonds
and all that shit, like that's why I was with
every day. So it was like that definitely rubbed off
on me in terms of wardrobe, my mindset. I mean,
even songs like Saturday Night Special it still influences that
mindset because you learn how to move, you know what
I'm saying, Like, you learn that if you really, really

(38:19):
really want to survive in the world.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
Don't try to be a tough guy.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Like that tough guy shit don't really fly because somebody's
gonna test that shit all day long. You're much better
off just having manners. I didn't say be soft. I
didn't say don't defend yourself. I didn't say don't do
what you got to do if there's a problem. I said,
don't try to be a tough guy, you know what
I'm saying. So that was the thing, like just understanding that.
And you know, those guys being you know, maybe two

(38:45):
three years older than me, four years older than were
just old.

Speaker 3 (38:47):
Enough to kind of mentor me.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
So it's like you know, coming out of queens, like
from age you know, late like sixteen seventeen, like seventeen
early maybe late sixteen, early seventeen, all the way to
like early you know, twenties or whatever. I was hanging
around for as long as they were around. I was
hanging with these guys and learning the ins and outs
of life. And it's not just all like crime and

(39:12):
criminal shit and all that negative shit that people always
think about, and also life lessons in it about manhood,
you know what I'm saying, and about how to be
honorable when you're moving around, and how to treat.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
People, how to respect people so that you if you see.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
Them again, it's not a problem. You know what I'm saying,
because you got to see people again. Man, old woman,
you gonna see them again.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
You know the girl would be walking past you while
you get your ass whip or getting pistolhipped about. That's right,
you know, catch one of them, man, you know, so
you you know what I mean, so you learn.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
You're answered a lot of questions before you asking, because
I was gonna ask you. Like you know, you see
a lot of people in hip hop get caught up
being too close to individuals in the street. And I
was watching the Supreme Team doc and you were.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
In the crowd. Oh get that fat Cat Birthday part.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
Supreaming them as moment listen, listen, just black justice men.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
You know what I'm saying. Bimmy's my men. I was
running with them because they were closer in age. And
then prem I knew you know, you know that that
crew like a lot of them.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
I knew they were a little older, but I knew them.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
So how'd you end up not getting caught up in
that like like say a IRV did not you know,
not throwing them under the bus.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
But just nah, nah, I get it because you know why,
because I was around enough hustlers my whole life.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
To to know that the shit ain't cute, you know
what I mean. See, let me tell you that, like.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Dudes that are insecure, that becomes like a like a
like a like a like a security blanket form, you
know what I mean. If you really understand life and
you're around enough people, you understand that you need to
just that's not you don't need to be seen in
that light. It's not necessary because I really was around it,
Like so I don't have to inject I don't have

(40:55):
to make that part of the loll cruise ain't narrative
because I really did. I was really there, like for real,
you know what I mean, the shower for real? Yeah,
very real. So it's like, you know, like dudes playing
with guns and dropping them on the floor for a
purpose just to see how you react.

Speaker 3 (41:14):
You know, you know that kind of ship.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Yeah, you ever thought about telling those stories like in
a movie or I mean I would do a movie.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
I thought about the people asked me that kind of stuff.
I would you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
When I hear those stories, they sound unbelievable about the teams.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
Like what yeah, yeah, nah, yeah, yeah, you know yo,
I'm listening back. You know, you know two schools of thought.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
There's the guys that really, I want to be cut
from that cloth, you see me as that, And there's
the guys like, I'm gonna lay that over there because
you know, I really smelled them candles, you know what
I mean, like them candles was? I smelled them for real?
So I don't need to be you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
I'm good.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
I'm good.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Nothing to prove.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Another record off the album hewe and the chall Yeah again,
you're taking a revolutionary tone. So it made me think,
would you have rapped like that throughout your career if
it was more I guess profitable.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
I didn't even take profits in the consideration. See, there's
a time to create art and as a time for
commercial consideration. If you painting them Ona Lisa, you don't
paint it, you know, thinking that you know, I don't
know something's gonna be trendy one day.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
You just painted. I just I didn't. I don't take
that in consideration with this album. I wrote a record
from the heart that I think people of all.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Colors, ethnicities, cultures will be able to respect because it's
really coming from my experience of what I've seen or
what I've witnessed, or what I've envisioned it have it
came to me.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Whatever I was inspired to write, it's real.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
So it's not trying. I'm not trying to be commercial.
I wanted to make something that could touch the world
in a way that is real from a hip hop standpoint.
So you know, I respected his stance. I respected, you know,
my aunt And this is an interesting thing and I

(43:25):
didn't know this when I did my DNA and at
Harvard and they did all this stuff and she's still
alive when we've talked. My aunt Joan, you know who
I got reconnected with later in life. She was the
first female black panther.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
Really.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
Yeah, my aunt Joan, Yeah, my aunt Joe from Oakland.
She's from Oakland, Joan Lewis. My uncle was John Henry Lewis.
He's a light heavyweight champion. He's in the Boxing Hall
of Fame. He's first African American light heavyweight champ. But
that whole side of my family has some very interesting
people in me. She plays a violin. She you know,

(43:58):
she's dope. And that that was, you know, something I
learned and discovered. I thought that was quite fascinating, the
huge thing. I thought a lot of the things he
was trying to do were worthy of respect. Absolutely, so
I wrote a song about it. I thought it was
it was worth listening to. I think that, you know,
as an artist, I would be cheating the world if

(44:18):
I didn't write stuff that.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
Was came from my heart and soul. It's never to
exclude anybody. I don't.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
I'm not even that. I'm not even built like that.
I like everybody like I like people. I'm weird, like
I don't have like all of them. You know, I
don't judge people. I'm not judgmental. I don't, but I
like so, I just wrote something that I thought people
would find fascinating.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
But it clearly as a black man, that's always been
in you. You talk about your you know aunt, who
was the first black panther, So it's in your DNA.
So when you used to hear Chuck d Rapp back
in the day, did you have any of those that
you did but maybe never put out?

Speaker 3 (44:52):
I did? I did? I did?

Speaker 2 (44:54):
I did?

Speaker 3 (44:56):
You know?

Speaker 1 (44:59):
I think I think creative courage it takes time to
get to that place.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
You know, when you have choices, and.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
You know, quite frankly, you know, you know when you
raised to be polite and when you raised with a
certain type of manners, there's certain things you just don't
say because you don't want to ruffle feathers. And I
think that's a natural thing. Though that's not always about
That's about how you're brought up. That's about upbringing. That's
not really about like even commercial stuff. That's about upbringing.

(45:29):
Like you look at Pocket, it's his upbringing that fuel
that that creative music. It's your upbring So I wasn't
really brought up in that kind of household, you know
what I'm saying. I was brought up in a household
Caribbean and southern, you know what I'm saying. Grandfather from Barbados,
So it's a Caribbean influence in the house.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
Working a thousand jobs, washing.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Your arms up to your elbows when you come in
all that, you know, fixing your own car and shit.
And then my grandmother from down south, so I was
raised with that Southern Caribbean vibe in my house.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
So that just wasn't what we talked about. So I didn't.
I wasn't as a kid coming up, That's not what
I wrote about.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
But as you evolving, as you grow as a human being,
and as you discover new things and new ship talk
about it.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
Do you have a lot of unreleased music that you
recorded in like, you know, your early years, and so
why not? Why not put it up?

Speaker 3 (46:19):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
I think I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
But you know they'll have plenty of time to do
all that, right, I don't.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
It's not for me here.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
You wait till you leave. Yeah, hell yeah. They hear
that old ship, all that old ship. Yeah, I got
the new old ship coming out. Wanna hear that old ship?

Speaker 3 (46:37):
Man?

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Trying to make some new ship. Let's get it popping, baby,
what's happening man? Wanna hear that old ship?

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Man?

Speaker 3 (46:44):
I don't even care about that ship.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Whatever.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
These dudes, you know, like run around and you know
there's dudes right now. I think they're gonna get away
with the pro tools and all that. No, you're not mistake,
gonna wear your ass out, man. Yeah, we come to
get all that. I know you think you got it,
you think you slick. You know, a couple of dudes
put some sit up on its. I'm gonna tighten you
up too. I got something for your ass too. You know,

(47:09):
I know you think I forgot.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
You know, I think about I was talking about you
in regard the Drake right because the way Drake doesn't
back down from a rap challenge reminds me of ll
couj because Drake makes the record for the ladies, but
he's also not afraid to mix it up as an MC.
And you had a lot of those back in the day.
You had Ice Tea, you had Hamm, a cool modd.

(47:32):
You know, you got it all of them onto the
break of dawn. But what happened when you and Iced
T finally bumped into each other at the Death Jam
party on Bleak and bro.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Man, Me and Ice Man, Me and Ice are cool man,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
We bumped at each other, you know, talked a little
talk and went back and forth for the low of
this and that, but we cool like like I respect
Ice like I really do. Ice is a you know
what I'm saying. He's a smart dude. He's very clever,
very smart. Like, you know what I'm saying. Like, listen, man,
I had all kinds of runnings with all kinds of

(48:07):
dudes over the years. You know what I'm saying. The
bottom line is that it's always better to air on
the side of civility, man, instead of putting yourself into
some bullshit you don't want to get into.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
So me and Ice we ironed that out. Man. It
wasn't no you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, that's
funny though you brought that shit.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
I know, because I just always wonder how cool it
heads prevailed. As you said, you you are a real
figure who ran with real figures. Yeah, Ice Tea's a
real figure who ran with real figures. But it never
got to that.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
Level of yeah yeah, well I'll tell you why, because.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
You know, I've always been a guy that look to
avoid problems because I know problems become real problems. And
I know how I am, you know what I mean, Like,
I don't look for problems, Bro, I don't you know
what I'm saying, Like, I'm just really not built like that.
I don't want the problems because I'm not fucked and
playing with you, you know what I mean, Like, I

(49:02):
don't so I don't want no problems.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
You know what I say.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
I'm saying I'd rather us be friends. You know what
I mean, because you have to look at me. You
gotta look at my career.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
If I put all my energy into a problem, do
you know how crazy it would be? This world would
be different if I was fucking on the other side
of the fence, the whole world. So it's like, I
don't even want to go there. You know what I'm saying.
I want to keep things positive energy, no problem, no
tough fake tough guy bullshit.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
Respect dudes. Give them love, give them on a see them,
give them a.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Dap, respect them behind their backs, respect them too, not
just in their face.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
You know what I'm saying. And just keep it dead,
you know what I'm saying. And it works for me.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
That's why I have a lot of friends and a
lot of respect in the game. And there's very few people.
There's only a few people that you know aren't in
love with me, and I understand why. And you know,
these things happen, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
But I got good.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Relationships because of that, So I'd rather keep it dead
with it, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
You say the rappers of the day, you know about
the pitfalls of just beef and hip hop now now
that times have.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Changed, But I would say that, you know, I would
say that when it's really when it's really just about
the music and the bars, like, don't take it so personal,
be like, why the fuck are you so butt hurt
like that you want to like, you know, kill everything
moving because somebody assaulted you on the way. I do
get it, but you gotta control that, you know what
I'm saying. It's not like you can't really judge them

(50:25):
because I've been there, I know it. It could be upsetting.
You know. You see a girl you in you know
the record plays you wanna call your girl got you now?

Speaker 3 (50:33):
You want to fight?

Speaker 1 (50:34):
You know, or she might go you'd be like, yo,
this is you know, and she kind kind of gives
you the you know, you see that that little you
know that you see her mouth do this ship that
little shit You're like, now you gotta you know, like
you know, you made Drake that not like us. Shit,
that's torture for a buffer said little kids, saying that's

(50:56):
you know, that's just bananas. Absolutely, you'd be fine, bro,
you know what I mean, don't even trip. So my
thing is like, that's what I'm saying. So like with
the you just don't take it personal, you know what
I mean. You can't be overly sensitive, you know what
I'm saying. Is it true that you and.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Jay Z once battled in a parking lot in Manhattan
and you wrapped a verse from Funkadelic Relic and him
and his team laughed at you.

Speaker 3 (51:20):
Okay, let's let's let's talk about it what it really is.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
First of all, it wasn't a I didn't rap a
verse from Funkadelic Relic.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
Okay, that's the first fucking thing that the story it's bullshit, Okay,
it's not true.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
What did happen though, is you know, I see you know,
see guy you know Ei the club and then trying
to you know, flash money to get my attention, and
I'm looking okay, and then this man's sauce came up
to me and was rapping. So I had a couple
of rhymes. Remember I'm albums in there. You know these
are guys that ain't had that deal. So when I
have a deal, I had a suitcase and rhymes. Now
I'm albums in saw I said some rhymes. I said

(51:57):
a couple of rhymes. Then I said a little bit
of a song. Ain't no stopping this a little bit?
Then J came up wrapped, I was out of rhymes?
Me in no, in no scenario that was I like
fully loaded and ready to rhyme.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
If I was, you know, I'm not exactly like you know,
the first rapper that you really want to get into
that ship? You know what I'm saying, Like I wasn't.
I wasn't like, so, yes, did I run out of rhymes?
Was I finished rapping?

Speaker 3 (52:25):
A fucking ltely? Was it was? I?

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Was it his?

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Was it their peanut Gallery? Absolutely? But do you really
want to get into some some of that kind of
shit with LLLL like you really want that? You know
what I'm saying, Like, do do dudes really want the problems?

Speaker 3 (52:41):
Or is it just a nice story to have?

Speaker 1 (52:43):
It's like it's like you know, it's like like like
like Floyd taking off the gloves, stepping out the ring
and you shadow boxing in front of him, and I
caught you.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
It's like, okay, okay, yeah you caught me.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Yo, y'all caught me.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
Yeah, So you saw there was just one of those things.
You just weren't as prepared as you.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
I wasn't prepared. I ran out of rhymes. They run
up this morn You know, he been rapping on the
corner for ten years.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
He got fucking a thousand rhymes. I ain't got none.
I'm out of rhymes. He raps.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Okay, congrats, you got that one. You got that one.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
But you know, if I was you, I just baked
that one and just leave it at that, you know
what I mean? Don't like drop nothing?

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Is that Where the whole jay Z and llll COO
J got problems came from?

Speaker 3 (53:24):
I don't know. I couldn't even tell you, bro.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
There was another rumor that the song Lounging, Your song
Lounging was about Hole. I mean because at the time
he was known for the Lexus and you was looking
at me. He was known for the Lexus and he got.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
Stocking fucking Lexus, I can't rap about a Lexus.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
My nigga got stocking Lexus. Hey, I can't mention it Lexuss. Fuck,
let's go on. What are we doing here? Like how
personally are.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
We gonna take this ship?

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Bro?

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Like?

Speaker 2 (53:55):
But with any of those balls about.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Jay No, Like look, okay, So I'll tell you to
you like this, if a dude makes a song, right,
and I make a contrary a contrasting idea about a
similar like in other words, if you say, yo, yo baby,
I'm coming upstairs to see you, right, and then I'm like, yo,

(54:19):
if I if I said something like if that inspired me, right,
and I'm like, you know what, let him come upstairs,
I'm gonna going around the side or some shit like that.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
That's not a disrespect bro.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Had you had a song, it had some cool ideas,
and it I just as an artist, was inspired and
made some contrasting you know, a contrasting statement about what
you were kind of saying in a contra like the
contrast of it. It wasn't like I don't even know you,
don't I don't know you from a hole in the wall,

(54:53):
like at all. I have not like what what could
I possibly want from him in nineties, Like, let's think
about Night ninety six.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
What do I want with him?

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yeah, he's brand new?

Speaker 3 (55:03):
What could I possibly want? And so all I did
was there were songs out.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
I've made some contrasting statements based.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
On his song and my song like that. There wasn't
no disrespect. But again that goes back to that sensitivity.
Be dudes, be sensitive.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Man. It's like, dude, like, don't assume the worst? Why
are you assuming the worst? Why not assume the best?
Why not say yo, yo, let's fuck with something like
why does it have to be I'm dissing you? Like
I wasn't dissing that, man. I hain't no reason to
dism like for what. Even to today, I don't want

(55:40):
to disshome for what. I don't want nothing from him,
I don't need nothing from him. I'm not looking for nothing.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
But I don't have any problems.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Like you know, there is that infamous picure of you
at the awards. You're looking at him when you sizing
them up, like yo, I got the rhymes right now now.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
Now, what it probably is is he was looking at
that like at me like that when they caught the shot.
You know, that's like that's like the teacher I got
you last. It's like a motherfucker look at you, and
then you look at him, and then the teacher get
out of my classroom. You know, it's like I just
got the I got caught.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
You know.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
You know Pick, I'm talking know exactly what you're talking about.
Do you remember what you were thinking about in that
moment exactly? Yeah, I was probably thinking small fucking get
on my nerves. He's looking at me all crazy, but
some shit like that, smart fucking get on my nerves. Man,
we get a smart fucking and then like a friendly competition,
because you know, I even think about it had to
be kind of difficult when he became president of the
Death Jam because now he's.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Wasn't difficult at all. We had a meeting, wasn't difficult.
Only thing difficult is or promote my ship. I don't
get like, you know, people funny with that, because like
you have people that all say, like, yo, hell, that's
crazy when they gave this guy a job. But first
of all, I don't like talking about people like this.
This is ridiculous, But I just do it because everybody's
going to be already around. We already viral any fucking
with so I'm as well finish. So listen, I'm gonna

(56:55):
use it of some Some people who are familiar with
this will understand it. When Michael Jackson was on Motown,
he never wanted to be the president, Bro, I didn't
never want to be no president in the death jam
or do.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
No, I didn't want a job fucking mc fuck. I
ain't a couple of people, Yo Russell, give me a job.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
That's not what I was in it for.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
So No, I didn't and I didn't have begrudge him.
He had. People have different things that they want to accomplish.
I celebrate that.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
I'm happy for him, like seriously, sincerely, Like I'm happy
for homie, Like I'm happy that he's doing what he's doing.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
I'm happy that. Like, even when that happened, I.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Didn't have any issue because I had no reason to
think that it would be anything negative. And if anything,
you have somebody that understands what you do and what
you go through as an artist who's been through some things.
So nah, I didn't feel no kind of way. You know,
we met and stuff. I don't really know what that
dynamic is about. I really don't like I really don't
know what it's about.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
When y'all meant to talk about, you know, the album
or whatever, did y'all have good conversations, y'all bring all
of this to the forefront.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Yea, it was not. We didn't we never you know,
sometimes you're right. Sometimes you got to give the elephant
rooms some peanuts.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
You know what I'm saying. We didn't really address it. No,
we didn't. We didn't. We didn't really address it.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
But I can tell you this, I sincerely I like
his music. I don't have no issues with them. You
know what I'm saying, Like it is what it is.
You know what I'm saying, Like I'm not. I'm not
you know, you know I'm I'm I'm in LL mode.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Man. Think about LL cool J.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
When I look at y'all and hip hop, I look
at you as Magic Johnson, I look at I look
at him as Michael Jordan. But you don't get no
Jordan without Magic.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
I mean that's one way of looking at them.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Like Magic is literally the top five of all time easily.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
You know maybe you know maybe, but you know, I
guess the move. The movie credits ain't roll yet, so
we got to see how that how it works out? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (58:45):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Would you be open to a friendly a friendly spar
what kind of lyrical lyrical damn l lyrics?

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Did I get excited? Like?

Speaker 3 (59:00):
What was far you're talking about?

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Cause you know you remember at the Hall of Fame.
I don't know what it was, the Hall of Fame
of the seventy Maybe was just when they did the
seventy five NBA inductions and Jordan saw Magic. You're like,
I crossed you up.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
We can get at it right now, yo, listen man, Yeah,
I mean, you know, hey, I'm bad. You want to
know Broka, you know what I'm saying, Like, okay, okay,
you know I wouldn't you know, I would say, let's
just all stay focused.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
You know they don't know. Let's just stay focused, baby,
don't get distracted.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
You're getting it now. Just leave it alone, just win, Just.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
Do your thing, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Whatever whatever happened to the e love the brother that
carried your radio now ear was he's in I think
he's in Cali.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
You know what I'm saying. I'm not sure what he's doing.
We talk occasionally. I had him at the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame. That was a good vibe, you
know what I'm saying. So you know, good ship.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
He was a public enemy logo, right, absolutely, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
He loved my hype man. That's the public enemy logo.
He had had the the bullseye on him and all
at the school. Yeah, that's funny, right, A lot of history.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Bro, correct me if I'm wrong on this too, because
you and DJ Scratch y'all made a classic record and
go and the Goat album.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
We did most he did most of the gold. He
did most of a lot of it. Yeah, a lot,
not all of it, a lot of it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Why haven't y'all connected more on production?

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Just just time and and going through things like that
whole acronym. Like first of all, like I didn't even
know when I you know, when we came, when I
came with that, with that album, that it was going
to turn the Goat into everything it became then, Like
most people don't even know I came up with that ship.
That's crazy, Like most people do not even know. Yo,

(01:00:45):
this guy really came up with the Goat, that whole
concept of being the Goat and went every area of culture.
Yeah yeah, so like that's just you know, you're welcome again.
Fuck you know what I mean, y'all welcome, you know,
But it was and I got it from Ah, and
I leave saying he was the greatest of all times
in Earl of Manigat. You know what I'm saying, because
me and Bimmy used to about Earl of Manigat being

(01:01:06):
a goat and all that with gold, right, and then
I may goat g a t greatest of all times
of acronym, and it just kind of bled into society,
became this global thing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
And you often get left out of conversations for an
acronym that you created.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Right, But I'm in it if they use an acronym,
yeah right, like like so every time you see somebody
use that goat the emoji, or they called Tom Brady
the gold, or they called Jordan the gold, or they
call Floyd or Ali or whoever the goat, I'm right there,
which is crazy for me because I know I created it.
So it's like I'm looking at it like, oh shit, man,

(01:01:42):
there's another one. Oh Michael Phelps' is a goat. Oh okay,
well done, young man.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
You know I got a few more questions I was reading,
WILLI Smith's book, and he talks about going broke after
having success in music early on. Did you ever have
any of those issues.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
I've had moments in my life where you know, I
taxes or had to do things, but no, I've never
been in that position. I also, you know, I'm a
big believe I paid my tithes, you know what I'm saying. So,
you know, whatever I get, I get ten percent of God.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
You know, I you know, I lived my life kind
of based on certain codes. I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
You know, I've never been big on either overspending or oversaving.
I just kind of let my life flow.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
That's why.

Speaker 4 (01:02:28):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
I can get whatever I want whenever I want it,
and I'm pretty good.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
I'm good with that, actually, very good with that. Yeah,
you know, so I'm cool.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
Who taught you the business? If anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Trial and error or trialing ever? You know, man like
you learned like you just learned to like. I remember
one time I gave my mother eight thousand dollars to
hold for me, and then I got a check for
fifty grand or something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
It was a little I was a little kid. I
was maybe sixteen seventeen sixteen something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
And I remember Dan even wrapping that long. Oh yeah,
you wrap money for that long?

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Yeah, yeah, No, No, it's crazy because I've been a
fan since eight nine. I started writing at eleven or twelve.
I've been doing this my whole life, right for real.
So and I watched that fifty grand God and that
eight just stayed there.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
I was like, Okay, let's see how this shit goes.
Like I learned that right there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
You just want to save money, save enough always, you know,
get to make sure you can.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
You know, you know, you got you know what I mean, Stucky.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Who are the people in your life that just kept
you stables as a human because, like you said, you
started when you were sixteen years old, so you had
the industry, you had the streets, like, you had every
single pitfall that could have happened in front of you.
But your grew to still be the man that we
see in today.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
And you know, my mother, you know, like my mother
would get me, like she give me a book with
a whole bunch of drug addicts and it with heroin addicts,
fingers all hands, all blown up sauce. She'd be like, Tod,
look at this and I'll be looking at it. She'd
be like, you know people that do that, they don't
have long careers. I'm like, oh, that messed my career. Interesting,
you know what I mean. And then my grandmother, you

(01:04:14):
know what I'm saying, because it was like initially, you know,
coming up, I was raised Catholic. I wasn't even raised
in like the traditional Black church as we know it.
I was raised Catholic and then ended up getting into
the more Bible based church faith based churches later, but
so so it was you know, all that that Catholicism, man,
that'll get you like that to have you like being

(01:04:36):
real cautious man, like everything's naughty and all that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
So it was like you just learned to like watch
your step, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
And you know, like.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
I always like I tell you man, like like I
remember one time I was talking to my man, right
and we was talking about hustling. He was like, well,
why don'd you come hustle with me?

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
And this is before I went up town and everything,
And I was like, nah, I don't want to do it.
He's like why, I said, because I want to be
the best. So he said, so what's the problem. I said, well,
not to kill people. So that's the like. So in
other words, what I'm saying is when you think about things,

(01:05:23):
when you do things, you have to think about things.
You know what I'm saying, Like, you have to really
do the knowledge on what it is you're analyzing and
what you consider it and whether or not you will
And I just say be perfect. I didn't say none
of that. I just said you have to consider what
you're doing and if you if it's worth it to
you based on what it is. So that's how so

(01:05:43):
I had a little fun, but like, to be honest
with you, with the drugs and all that, like, I
don't like my brain feeling like I ain't got no
breaks on it and shit, I don't like that feeling
like I don't like walking in the room. I don't
know what the fuck's going on. I'm all like, you know,
I don't like that feeling. That's why I don't be
drinking and smoking and getting high and all that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
I never did because of that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
I've tried everything, I've tried shit, but I'm never That's
why I don't like that feeling.

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
You know what, I'm saying, I like to have my
wits about me.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
So that's been your key to aging gracefully in the industry,
because you know, a lot of the icons we grew
to knowing love they not landing with their planes with
the wheels out, you know what I mean, a lot
of them planes landing in the wheels not coming out.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
Motherfucker. Yeah, the motherfucker's landing on flat time exactly. Roller
skate one, roller.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Skate on the seven forty seventh yo. Yeah, just not
getting high and all that. Man, Like, take care of yourself, beat.
I like to get in the gym, workout train, you
know what I'm saying. I like to read this shit,
you know what I mean, Like, I don't be sitting
around high on motherfucking day.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
Man, Like, what are we doing?

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Man?

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
What's that about?

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
For me? I'm not Look, people could do what they
want and I got homies that do that and it's
all good.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
I ain't got no problem with it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
You know, that's you, you know, But no, you know,
like I said, you know, we're seeing a lot of
people fall from grace, you know, for things that they
did decades ago. Do you think that you know, landing
with your wheels out has to be a decision and
a mindset that you got to be committed to from
day one.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Well, you got to put yourself in the best position
to do that right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
Sometimes you can get lucky, sometimes things just work out,
but you know it's better to be you know, prepared
to land is plan your landing and then if.

Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
You got to switch it up, you switch it up.

Speaker 4 (01:07:22):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
It's like it's a saying, right, all plans are useless,
but planning is essential, you know what I'm saying. So
it's like, if you got a plan, it ain't gonna
go as planned. But if you got a plan, then
you got a place to pivot from, you know what
I mean. It's like having a map. If you got
a map, you know, and your plan is to go

(01:07:43):
that way, even if you got to switch, you got
a map.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
So you can go that way.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Makes sense? That makes sense. You know. Last year was
the fiftieth anniversary of hip hop. This year is the
fortieth anniversary of Death Jam and.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
Me right the first artist.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
So you know, with all the controversies surrounding Russell Simmons,
does that impact how these things can be properly celebrated?
How these stories can be properly told.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
I don't think so, because I don't think one thing
has nothing to do with the other one. You know,
if we found out that Galileo was doing some crazy shit,
should we do away with astronomy and telescopes and shit? Like,
if we found out that, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
You name it, you still got to tell the story.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
I mean like it's just like like like it's really
kind of like people like. Look, first of all, I
don't like to judge people because I wasn't there.

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
That's the first thing. I also don't be little.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
I don't try to never make light of anything that
anybody's been through in terms of victims that I'm not
with that either.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
I don't play the games.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
What I will say is, you're living in let's say, whoever,
you're living in an apartment building and you found out
that the builder of that apartment building had did some
really really bad things. Should you break your lease and
move out? Should we demolish that building and redo it?

(01:09:13):
Have somebody a perfect hand building.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
I don't even know the answer, But what I say
to people is you got to look at these.

Speaker 3 (01:09:21):
Things when you think about stuff. One thing is one thing,
this is another, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
And even if you remove the person out of the building,
you still have to tell the story of the person
building that building.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
But you still tell the story of the building. So
it's like, yeah, let's take history, world history for example.
It's probably been a couple of people that have done
some good things and bad things. So do we eliminate
all of the good because of the bad? Do we
throw away the good because of the bad deed?

Speaker 3 (01:09:55):
That's the question.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
We live in a country that was built on bad deed, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Saying, so do we like like like, like are you
are you prepared to give up your passport because of
what was done to the indigenous people in this country?
Right like this, you gotta look, you gotta be real
and I'm not and it ain't none of it good.
Like I'm not saying don't make light of it by
no means, I'm not on that bullshit, But I'm just saying, like,

(01:10:21):
we gotta be realistic.

Speaker 3 (01:10:22):
Man, the dude built you know, he put together this company.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
He did so even if he's not celebrated, you still
got to tell.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
You, yeah, you may not celebrate his actions in that
particular area. But you can't say that he didn't do
something right, right. I'm just saying like, it's no way
around that, because if not, we have to erase all
of world's history because to find a perfect person that
did good things and nothing bad? Does that even exist?

(01:10:51):
Does it exist in your household? What was grandma doing?
Was grandma freaking off? Was grandma freaking off?

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
Speak?

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Should we never did grandma illegally take money and do
the nasty nasty and take some money back in the sixties,
and now she making Thanksgiving? And we are we fouled
for eating this stuff? And right now because Grandma shot
bucking the ass with the twenty two round the corner.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
I'm sure those conversations that came up for you though,
right like people have asked like are you gonna have
him here?

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
No, Honestly, nobody is really asked, And I'm glad you
did ask because I just think that none of us
are perfect, right, and none of us should make light
of any victim and anything they go through.

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
Ever, we have to look at the world and things
on a case by case.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
Basis, because if you're not gonna look at it on
a case ba case by case basis.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
I don't know what we're gonna do because nobody gonna
do shit.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Because if everybody had a goddamn you know, a Wikipedia
on a TV screen above their head with all of
the foul shit they did, we'd be walking around this motherfucker. Man, Man, Man,
what what?

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
I wouldn't hurt a fly?

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Yeah, I know you wouldn't, but you out there chopping
chickens heads off every five minutes. I wouldn't hurt a fly. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
I know you're telling the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
But I'll kill a chicken. I'll kill a chicken, you
know what I mean? Like everybody like people, you know people.
Nobody's perfect with that stuff. Man.

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
So that's the way I look at it. Man, you
know what I Man?

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
Did you feel away when President Biden got your name
wrong at the CBC conference? He called you l J
cool Jay? Then he referred to you as a boy
before correcting himself and saying, man, did you get nah?

Speaker 3 (01:12:42):
I mean, you know what else supposed to do?

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
Man?

Speaker 3 (01:12:44):
Like I'm a mine?

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
Man, God, drmit, you know like I was supposed to
do due eighty years olds live man, listen, I got
ship to do. Man, The last thing I got to work.
Let me let me tell you something. When you at
the point where the president messing up your name is
a national story, she was a bad motherfucker.

Speaker 3 (01:13:07):
You're a bad motherfucker.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
At that point, Yo, when the president messing up your
name is national news.

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
He did something right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
So I'm going I'm gonna just be like, I'm just gonna,
you know, wish them all the best, bro, I wish
them good health.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
And that's it. Man.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
I can't you ever been approached by doing the chapstick line.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
Well, I met with them a long time ago, but
you know, you know, I think you know a lot
of Melani man.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
I'm not sure. I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
That's a lot of Melani man, A lot of Melanin
on them lips, man, that sits like hoof, you know,
a little Bonnie Man, get a low.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
To ll and all that that shit.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Hell. That's why I want you back,
because I'm saying back then, you know, yeah, That's.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
Why I want people to listen to the new album
because you know, even with all the success you've had,
there's still a lot of doors that have been closed
to you because of your black well.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
I mean, listen, but there's a lot of doors that opened, right. See,
life is we know what we're dealing with in the
world in America.

Speaker 3 (01:14:09):
But you can't. I can't allow myself to get kind
of caught up in that shit. You know what I'm saying.
We know what's true. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
But my thing is.

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
When the elevated doors close, take the steps, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:14:28):
Like, I'm not tripping off of that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Like I'm not gonna walk around overly sensitive with a
chip on my shoulder about what I'm not getting. I'm
too busy thinking about what I am getting, and so
I'm gonna make the most of what I do get.
So if you you know, if you do not let's
just say, for instance, if somebody wanted to deny me
an orange because I'm a black man, Okay, but I
bet you I'm gonna give me nine thousand peaches up
this motherfucker.

Speaker 3 (01:14:51):
You know what I mean. That's how you do it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
You know what I'm saying, You go get it, like
you can't be caught up in that because that misery
and that and that that that woe was me mentality,
that victim mentality.

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):
That's not successful. I'm about being successful. You know what
I'm saying, what.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
Does success look like for you? In regard to the Force.

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
Album impacting the culture?

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
People getting a full load of the Force album, it
really impacted the culture in a major way with sales,
with airplay.

Speaker 3 (01:15:24):
With streams, people really feeling it and.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
Embracing it and loving it and saying, Wow, I didn't
know that an artist that came maybe two, three, four
generations before me, I didn't even know that I would
even be remotely interested in hearing his music, But Wow,
this shit really moved me. And then on the flip
side of that, it's the day one fan saying, damn,
I really thought that, Like because you know the guy

(01:15:48):
I went to high school where there's a bus driver
now and his stomach is to his knees, that L
wasn't gonna be able to do it. Nah, Now we
can't do it. You can't continue to be great and
perform at a high level.

Speaker 3 (01:15:59):
But you just got to be on it like that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:01):
You know what I'm saying. What cloth are you cut from?
Are you cut from the surrender cloth or you cut
from the conquer cloth? You got to make those decisions,
you know what I'm saying. So that's what I want,
you know what I mean, like touch the world with
that shit and let people know, like, Yo, this dude
is this guy's real, This shit is real.

Speaker 3 (01:16:20):
This is a different thing.

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
This dude is different because he really executes the shit
he says like, you know, this ain't raising in the sunbeam.
I'm not just talking about the shit all day and
you know, and they're never doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
Would the music be enough to tell the ll cool
J story?

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
Oh no, No, I'm way too multifaceted for that. There's
too many dimensions to my character. But it definitely will
tell the artistic stories that I've been looking to put forth,
you know what I'm saying, And it'll tell people where
I was at when I created that music and what
I felt was important, what I was inspired by, and
hopefully you can find inspiration in my inspiration. You know

(01:16:59):
what I'm saying. It's like, you know, you know, it's
like having sex. Man, you know what I'm saying. You
got to be in the moment. You got to be
self aware. You got to know when to be aggressive,
you gotta know when to be calm. You know what
I'm saying. You gotta know when to turn it up.
You gotta know when to turn it down. You gotta
know when to be nice. You know, you gotta know
when to not be not so nice.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
That's life. You know what I'm saying. So that's what
it is. You know what I'm saying. That's how I'm
doing it. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
I love cool Jake.

Speaker 3 (01:17:28):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
I appreciate you, brother, love you for the time.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
Man, mister, appreciate you.