3093: Kendrick Lamar and Sinners

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I listened to the Black Guy You Tips podcast because
Rod and carried the hut. Hey, welcome to another episode
of the Black Auttils podcast. I'm your host, Rod, joined
us always by my co host, and we're live on
a Wednesday, YEP. Ready to do some podcasts and to
wrap up, kind of wrap up our week. We won't

(00:21):
see you guys again till Saturday if you're a freeloader.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
But we're not here alone. We have a guest.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
A person wrote in and said like, hey, Rod, I
love your review of Sinners, but also here are my thoughts.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
And they felt very random thoughts.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
It felt like they were journaling, but they were writing
the podcast, you know, like oh this thing and remember
when this happened in Centers. And then they said I
was waiting on you and BOSSI to do this too
much about it? And I was like, damn, we haven't brushed,
you know, the dust off of this too much in
a minute. But obviously I'm down, she's down whatever, you know,
I'll ask. And then I asked BOSSI, and I'm like,

(01:05):
wait a minute, Bossy, you have a podcast. Bossy got
a whole lass podcast and didn't even tell us.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
And you don't promote it very much.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
No, you don't.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
You you suck at it. I'm sorry to tell you
you are not good at promoting. And you know, Bossi's like,
you know, also, you know I don't my podcast partner,
we haven't even talked about it yet. I'm like, you
know what, I have a podcast. Yes, we could just
come on the bigger, the main podcast and introduce y'all
to I want it, and then they know you got

(01:38):
a podcast, and then they'll definitely want to hear you,
because half of them are just like I came over
from this too much and I stayed to hear what
y'all think about other shit.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
So let me do this introduction real quick, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
First of all, co host of The Idea of Podcast,
award winning singer Best Female Actor in the Motion Picture
ninety seven to Best Coach Supporting Actors twenty sixteen offences
along with Viola Davis, Golden Globe winner, future VP candidate
for twenty twenty eight, an author of I'm Telling the
Truth but Online available for order Amazon, Barns and Noble Books,

(02:14):
A Million and any Bound, and Mike, what's up y'all
y'all doing? I just met Mike. I don't know all
Mike's stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Give us some time running this down on you too.

Speaker 4 (02:28):
It's all good, random nigga, ain't Mike is good? I
ything you call me. It's all good. It's all good.
And there's way too many it's too much. Michael Andrews
ed D. I don't need all that that's googleed ind
that I to do that. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:44):
I feel bad because he just wants people to know
that he's a doctor.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
No, I don't want anybody to know that.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
But when they say when they say ed doctor, now,
I feel like it means some different to people.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
See, umunderstand I'm the doctor of the Shannon Sharp.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
Uh well, let me.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Ask you all this.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
First of all, how did you come up with the
idea of the idea of podcasts?

Speaker 5 (03:15):
Take Mike?

Speaker 4 (03:17):
All right? So yeah, yeah, So for for a while
I had I had a podcast years ago called The
Idea of Manhood, and that's kind of always been my
platform that I've used just talking about men's issues. I
started right after I became a dad. My son is eighteen.
I started like the concept of the idea of manhood.

(03:38):
My son's eighteen, and I started the podcast probably when
he was six or seven or eight around that timeframe,
and it kind of went came and went, you know,
and long story less long, my son and Bossy's son
were on the same soccer team in Maryland and so
we met each other mad long ago. There's also other connections,

(04:02):
like we were I was following BOSSI on Twitter, didn't
know that she was standing beside me on the sidelines
and our son it was and when we made it
all come together and she told me years ago on
the sideline, like yo, yeah, I might be thinking about
a podcast. I have an extra mic for you. We

(04:23):
literally met at like a burned down target somewhere.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
And burned out.

Speaker 5 (04:27):
It's still right there.

Speaker 4 (04:30):
The story was better when it was burned down because
it seemed like mysterious.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (04:35):
She gave me a red podcast mic in a plastic bag.
It's literally in like a Walmart. It wasn't even a
Target bag. It was a Walmart bag and that.

Speaker 5 (04:46):
Was like my drug.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
Now that's why she handed it to you in the bag.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Well, it should It makes sense also because I do
feel like it should be illegal to give new podcast
mics out. So no, they haven't been used, like we
need licenses Franklin site.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
Yeah exactly, and that was the start of the idea
of manhood and then that ended and then we just reconnected.
Uh you know, we kind of stayed in contact through
our sons. They both play soccer, they're both going to
college to play soccer, and we just kind of kept
in contact and Box it was like, yeah, let's let's
do this again, and we just used the idea of

(05:21):
and because it's just so much could we curse on here? Yes?

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yes, yeah, it's what you do.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
I've heard, I've heard you. I just want to make
sure I could.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
I'm a guest take the shoes off.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
Well, it's just so much bull fit. In the podcast
face man, we were just you know, listening to a
lot of the same shows, and you know, folks were
just talking about stuff, I think specifically the Kendrick and
Drake conversation, and it's like, what are folks talking about?
Like people are you know, playing dumb, being dumb and

(05:56):
just there was no nuance in any of the conversations. Uh,
And and Bossy and I were like we could like,
you know, Vossi is an animal on the microphone, just
her per it takes you know, all all day all balls,
and you know, I'm just okay. And so we came

(06:17):
together and it's been, it's been, it's been amazing so far.

Speaker 5 (06:21):
Well, just to add to that, we were going back
and forth like voice notes, like just voice note after
voice note after voice note, to the point where.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
It's like a right.

Speaker 5 (06:32):
Whole episodes and yeah, and I've been wanting to like,
I love I love this too much, but all of
our shows left, and I love popping in every once
in a while. But as much as Rod says you
can come back whenever you want, you can. It was
like an everyday thing where I was like, I have
more things. I mean Rod, Rod's in box, his text

(06:53):
messages were being blown up by me during the last
year of the whole Ken Drake Drake thing. So we
start off there and then the more that we start
to talk about different things, it it we realized that
we had like a unique perspective. We don't always we okay,

(07:13):
this is the thing about me and Mike. We agree
and then we don't. So there's like a like a
like a like a trunk a tree trunk of agree
and then the branches just go into like his conspiracy
theories and me being like relax, but it's yeah, it's
it's fun. It's fun. It's it's good to to have, uh.
And I mean, you guys know an outlet when things

(07:35):
happen to like talk it through and talk it out. Especially.
Another reason was like I just wasn't on Twitter anymore,
so all the things that I would usually tweet, I
didn't have anywhere to put them, but I still want
to talk about them.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Well, I think it's a very I think it's a
very healthy thing because I think everyone does need an outlive.
But far too often our outlets are like these the
things we're saying are just helping monetize somebody else's bullshit,
and they're not interested in like what you have to
say going out to people as much as they're interested
in interaction. So like, you know, I you know, there's

(08:08):
been so many times when obviously not as many the
last couple of years, but me and Bossy like we
text and it'd be like I said this on.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
Twitter, What the fuck do you see all this?

Speaker 1 (08:18):
And it's like yeah, and it's like, oh yeah, that
place is designed for conflict and bullshit. Whereas a long
form podcast the way you guys break things down I
love how you guys get into the weeds of things
and get really raw and honest and whatnot. Like I really,
you know, love that part of the show. And I
think a lot of shows missed that, you know, because

(08:39):
everything's so service level. It's honestly, they're kind of seeking
a Twitter interaction from their podcast where it's like, oh,
hopefully this clip gets people mad enough that they'll watch
it even if they hate my guts, because I don't
care if they understand, you know, that bullshit. And I
like that y'all show doesn't do that, and so that's
you know, that's one of the reasons I and you
can feel it, like when you're listening into the shows,

(09:00):
like this is earnestly how people feel. And even like
I said, even when it's like a disagreement or whatever,
to me, it's like, that's genuinely that's a genuine disagreement
at least like sometimes you watch, you know, like you
watch these clips online. It's like, let's bring in Mark
Lamont Hill to talk to a man who believes the
earth is flat, and you're like, that's not a genuine disagreement,

(09:20):
y'all orchestrated bringing a smart person in so you would
have fights, so you would sell the fights to me.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
On my fucking timeline. And I don't I never feel.

Speaker 5 (09:30):
Don't no, don't make that face looking. It's different than
that's different than what you said. You said that everybody's acting.
All of it is fake. Itsh doesn't really believe the
earth is flat. That is different than let's yeah, I
don't think that's the fire and throw it into the thing.
That is completely different.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
I don't completely them clips of ish. There's no actor
that that good. There's no actor. I think they believe
that there's no actor. You can give instructions and be like,
go out and pretend to be a flat earth there
and then when he gets when they turned the MIC's off,
issues back to like line up, please, oh thank you.
I went to Juilliard like now that motherfucker believed.

Speaker 5 (10:09):
That they believe it too, exactly exactly all right.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
I would listen. I worked with I worked on TV,
and I worked with actors, and I'm telling you nobody's good.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
That good.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
I wish I wish it was able to do some
ship like that.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
You'd be like here's a here's like Curby enthusiasm, like
here's your the general scene we want to have is this,
but you were that require me to believe in the
confidence of Joe Budden a lot. There's a lot of
stuff that would have to happen.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
Was to find out like is was actually smart and
was like, oh no, no, of course I don't believe
that bullshit. I'm like, oh, and don't think that.

Speaker 5 (10:48):
The entire world to think I'm an idiot.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, you gotta be comfortable walking down the street like
that because everybody wouldn't know it's an act. When you
see male out, you don't think this nigga on Drake Dick.
There's no way. People are like, nah, he just he
just be playing that on the show.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
He don't really believe that.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Fuck that man not my real name, but still.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
But still I do know, I agree with you, Rod.
I feel like there's so much of it that is orchestrated.
So I think, like you know, I think there's definitely
levels of of folks not being folks believe in what
they believe. But they when those cameras come on and
they see the viewership go up, I think they just

(11:33):
loan him to it a little bit, a little bit,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Not that I agree with.

Speaker 6 (11:39):
And another reason why I don't think he's acting because
all us know stupid niggas.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
We know, we know really ignorant people.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
In our lives to say ship like alkaline water and
all the other bullshit.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
So if they believe that, you know, someone believe right the.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Earth is the orchestration does to me, the orchestration doesn't
come from that ground of a level. It comes from
like the top down of like societally, like this is
what we recognize as content, and what gets clicks is
what gets clicked. So the like one clip of Mark
lawant Hill talking to that dude should have been like

(12:16):
enough in real life, like yeah, I can see how
that would happen.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
Ten clips, y'all.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Are putting the chess pieces on the board so that
you cause you know that part is orchestrated, this dude
will be stupid enough around this guy being smart enough
that you will get more clips. Because I don't even
I have had to like go on my Twitter and
like tell it, do not show me this because it's
shown me so many Joe Buden clips in the last
like two weeks, and it's maybe my friends are clicking

(12:43):
on I don't know, but like it's all in my
four Utah line and I don't even listen to that podcast.
I've never heard of episode, and I'm like, why is
it trying to just make me watch Mark Lamont. He'll
hang out with these.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
Guys every day like if an.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Now I'm starting to judge Mark, like Mark Man, these
because are dumb. You should quit this job, you know,
like like somebody, it's not having the effect y'all wanted
to have.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
What are you doing?

Speaker 4 (13:09):
So it is, though it is having the effect because
it's this They won't. They want black folks to argue
about the argument. You know what I'm saying that, and
that is the that's the money maker. They they they
are entire y'all know this better than me, the entire
podcast industry. I think it's just starting to lean towards

(13:31):
black folks arguing. Like I'm sure there's white folks arguing.
I don't listen to white podcasts like that, but I'm
sure that there is a czar of podcaste.

Speaker 5 (13:47):
You sound like, Okay, Kendrick Lucian Grange had lunch together
and decided that's what you sound.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
Like in the office somewhere just being turned the black
argument volume.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
To the tens.

Speaker 6 (14:03):
Yes, and it's relationships and not just funny to go
even deeper.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
And this is just my opinion. And I said this
when it first happened.

Speaker 6 (14:11):
When corporations insert their dollars into something that was initially
not created for that all of a sudden, it changed
the dynamic on how everything was made because you know,
people did this before, but people used to talk about
a variety of ship but now it's smushed down to
the gender wars.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
It's smushed down to just just just like.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
You said, it's Jerry Springer, right like, I don't think
I don't think there was a you know, no offense, Mike.
I don't think there was like a podcastar or a TV.
There wasn't like one person was like everything show be Springer.
It was hey, man, did you know this show is
kicking our ass in the ratings?

Speaker 4 (14:52):
Yep?

Speaker 1 (14:52):
And you know what I when I saw that its ship?
You know what I saw And I didn't hear anybody
else bring this up. I saw Joe Budden chasing Joe.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Rogan because that is the kind of shit. That is
what Joe Rogan does.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
You know, That's how he's the largest podcast in the world.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
You know, Joe, Joe's not even saying shit, but just
as an entity. That is a clip that is designed
to go viral. Because one of Joe Rogan's superpower isn't
what you know, Twitter makes it seem like he's just
a right supreme white supremacist who's like always saying that's
not even superpower. Superpower is being stupid every day And
I and I and I don't even mean that as

(15:33):
like the insul I mean that is literally what he does,
like every day. I start over a zero, I bring
a person in to say something fucking insane. I pretend
that it's new information and it's all true. And if
someone comes on the next day and says the opposite,
I do the same fucking thing.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
What really, So you're saying you think the Earth is flat?

Speaker 1 (15:52):
And I'm just asking questions, right and But so they
don't necessarily have too much conflict on Joe Rogan because
they're much bigger, they don't have, right, but I can
I definitely feel that envy. I remember Joe Budden left
Spotify over that Joe Rogan deal like that that I need.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
A bigger bubble. I gotta get, you know, got to
blow up. I guarantee you.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
They're like, we need to have conversations that are stupid
enough to blow up.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
And fuck it.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
If isshes my homie but he looks stupid, we're just
gonna use that.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
I don't give that stupid.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
I'm gonna make his I'm gonna let him be stupid
every day, the way Joe Rogan is stupid every fucking day.

Speaker 6 (16:28):
As long as people click and I'm getting paid, like
that's kind of all that matters. But if you're a
person with any form of integrity, you're looking like, oh,
this is some bullshit.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Y'all doing.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
What's y'all favorite episode of your show you've done so far?

Speaker 4 (16:43):
Mm hm, oh, we were just talking about that boss.
The episode before last the what we're talking about. When
I was when I.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Was going about growing older, that one was like the
idea of second act or something.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
I'm about to look it up, said.

Speaker 4 (17:01):
Last week, Yeah, last week episode.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
I think it was called the Idea of the Crossroads.

Speaker 4 (17:10):
Is that the one the crossroads, that's.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
The straight up?

Speaker 1 (17:15):
That ship was so good, straight up, Like that was like,
I feel like that's a thing people don't talk about
that people go through and It's not the kind of
conversation people have in public because it's like every you know,
it's like your Instagram, like here's my toes at the beach,
here's you know, here's here's me in a suit, here's

(17:36):
me working out. It's never like, oh man, here's me
binge eating at three in the morning, Like, no, who's
posting that ship?

Speaker 4 (17:43):
Right?

Speaker 1 (17:44):
So, but but that's that's what made that episode so good,
was just having that conversation and like kind of going there.
But also like I didn't I didn't feel like it
was sad or the present. It felt like, no, this
is I this is related. That's how I felt. You
guys should be proud of that episode. It's really fucking good.

Speaker 4 (18:05):
Yeah, I was thinking I was telling Bossy like during
the episode, Bossy shared with me kind of her concept
of failure and you know, feeling like a failure or
I'm using your words like being a failure to her,
not to me, to her, right right, just correct me
if I'm wrong. But like in the past when she

(18:28):
told me that, like the natural tendency is to be like, oh,
you're not you know, come on, You're not a failure.
You're Bossy, Like you're you are a teen some it
like how, like what are you talking about? And I've
told BOSSI like in a in a way like she's
executed so many things that like I've aspired to and
I was like, you can't be a failure, right, But
during that conversation, the way she kind of broke it

(18:49):
down was it I understood where she was coming from,
and it was so healthy to me, Like if it
felt like she was so confident in her you know,
in her approach and how she was looking at her life,
that it made me feel confident about her. So it

(19:12):
was just kind of it was a healthy exchange of
living in that doubt, living in that space which some
of us like trying to get through and push through
and push through and counseling and this and that, which
is good. But there was something really calming about us

(19:32):
going through that process in real time, Like none of
that was planned or staved. We weren't even playing to
have that comfort.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
No I hear I could hear you because I've talked
to Bossie about that before, and you know, I'm more
of a like like, Okay, that's like I respect how
you feel.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
That's how you feel.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
I would like it to be noted.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
I disagree, but that that does not supersede your emotions
about I heard you kind of going through that process
as she's talking, because it's not something she had isn't
thought about. So it was just kind of like it
was dope to have that conversation. Oh, somebody flies in
the house. Something buzzing. I don't know if y'all hear
y'all hear it, I do, all right? Uh the phone calling,

(20:13):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
Stop buzzing. Whatever it is is a man.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
I don't think it's on my side, but hold on,
let me check to be.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
All right.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Hold on, it's not you. You mute it. You might
be buzzing over there. I don't know. Oh it was bossing. Okay, Yeah,
it was buzzing.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
Because it was like this is maybe.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Her uh the fan for her computer.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Man cut on or something, and it's picking up the sound.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
You gotta get her a block of ice and maybe
let me make sure I am.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Not a black ice.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
She should be able to come back.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
And I made a speaker, okay, okay, all right, cool,
I'll just invite her anyway. But yeah, the it is
kind of interesting that you know that conversation and like
the uncomfortableness of it. But I feel like I don't know, man, Honestly,
that's the last place podcasts have left of mind is
real shit.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
It's like everything's so produced and fake now.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
No one's having real conversations and everyone's just trying to
blow up so and a lot of people are honestly
having a conversation they're not qualified to have, or having
the truth that the greatest thinkers, and so that's such
a big turn off. So anyway, I just want to
apply job because y'all show is fucking great. I knew
it would be great, but you know, I was like,
let me, let me tap in because you know, bossy,

(21:27):
let it slip, like you know what I'm saying this
on my podcast?

Speaker 3 (21:30):
Like what fucking podcast?

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Right? We just randomly talking on the shells like oh
you you're doing something else.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
Like niggave been doing this for five months? What the fuck?

Speaker 4 (21:40):
Public? Please thank you?

Speaker 5 (21:43):
What shocks me though. It's like I'll be talking to
Rose I talked to Rod digerally every single day and
he'll be like, oh, and I was like when did
I say that? He's like, I'm listening to your podcast. Yeah, okay, right, right, right, right, man,
It's gonna take me a minute. I told you Yester today,
like I'm what I need to work right up to

(22:03):
and I'm getting there.

Speaker 4 (22:05):
How to turn her camera on? Like what is? Did
you agree to this? That's all I got up.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
Here, that's all hers.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
She's like, listen, I'm busting out of my shell. Let's
get this second, ask about it and doing my best.
If you like this too much, okay, I feel like
you'll love the idea of you know, if I'm if
I'm the Kendrick Lamar of uh Bossi's male podcast co host,

(22:36):
then obviously Elon Musk would be Drake. I mean Elon
would be Drake, right, and then Mike, that makes you
j Cole, which you can't take as an insult because
you think he great, so you can't that's not so.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
There you go, all.

Speaker 5 (22:51):
Right, you can have that because I don't want to.

Speaker 4 (22:54):
So you got it. Listen, You're gonna start a war
in the UH over there now, everybody.

Speaker 5 (23:00):
Everybody agrees with me.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
Rod. You heard the story, right, You heard the episode
where BOSSI went like off the rails.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
I would not characterize it as her going off the rails.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
As I was agreeing with.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
I agree, yeah, gang Gang. I think I think Future
would be over Cole. If we're talking about who who
people are saying are the most three influential rappers of
this of this era.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
I think Future is more influential than J Cole.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
I mean, if anything, you would, I would say J
Cole a lot of his impact is about being one
a one on one Like he's not imitatable. Uh, he's
not trying to start a movement. He does his festival
and he definitely support North Carolina rappers.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
So I'm not like he.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
I think he's a dude that thinks of his community
like that. So I'm not saying that part, but just
I don't think I don't think J Cole was even
trying to be like what Future is or or biggest drake. Yeah,
and I don't no offense, but I don't think he
got it to be like Kendrick. Like Kendrick, that PG
Lane all that ship, the different the politic er that

(24:11):
ship is that ship different, Like it's not supposed to
be no conscious rappers big as Kendrick. That's just that,
It's just that's an anomaly exactly. It's like when Nas
is talking about, like, you know, trying to make he
tried to make club songs, and it was like, it's
not gonna work because you're one of one in a
different way. If we measure you by jay Z numbers,

(24:32):
where you're gonna come up short.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
So just be you.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
And now he's lean into being like nas the poet
old nigga, And I'm like, that's a perfect lane. And
I think j Co is in the perfect lane for him.
But yeah, I wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, a little, a little uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
He want to he want to brag, and he want
to do all the big boy ship. But then like
at the end of the day, he really want to
be friends with everybody.

Speaker 7 (24:55):
He not.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
He not a hard soul soul like that.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
He's not. He doesn't.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
He don't want to live in beef. He don't want
like he make raps.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
That shit bothered him. He don't want to live in beef.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
He made before this whole beef ship, he was making
raps like hey, young rap nigga, stop shooting each other.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
What the fuck?

Speaker 2 (25:11):
He was the only nigga saying that, y'all, it's crazy
that we're old enough.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
He the only nigga saying that it should be a
lot of old heads looking out for the young people
because they was killing the fuck out each other.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yes, and he the only one like, hey, maybe.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
He really shooting each other.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
I feel like I feel like, you know, I'm halfway
between nuns, halfway between young thug.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
We should all not shoot each other and can't.

Speaker 4 (25:35):
We just get long? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (25:37):
But Mike, I know you want to retort about how
great he is, So go ahead.

Speaker 4 (25:40):
Do you think I can't even I'm having a hard
time here, Guys, I don't. I don't like the level
of blaspheme is so hot. I don't even impact future.
I don't even like me neither that compares. Yeah, so

(26:04):
what are we talking about?

Speaker 3 (26:06):
Because it's not Mike, it's not my list. It's the
list of what I'm analyzed. It's like me saying.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
It's like if I said I don't like Luka Doncic,
and then you was like, name the top five NBA
players and I just left them out because I don't
like him. That's crazy, Like, no, obviously this nigga get
on my nerves.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
But he top five, that's future to me. I do
not like future music.

Speaker 5 (26:27):
He number three not allow by the same metrics that
allows Drake to be on the list, Future should be
on the list as well. Like that's that's it. I'm
not I can't name maybe wait, no masks, that's him
right or mask off right, I don't know. I tolerate
Future to get to Kendrick's versus.

Speaker 4 (26:50):
I like that.

Speaker 5 (26:50):
That's the most future I've ever heard ever in my life.
I don't know anything else about it, but I know
enough to know that he has influenced a bunch of
other these niggas that I don't listen to. Yep, yeah,
and I gotta give them that.

Speaker 4 (27:05):
And it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
Unfortunately for cold Cold not imitatble like that he didn't
spawn a bunch of wanna be ass day colds because
I think a lot of niggas looked at him like
I can't do that whatever.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
It just was like, but I.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Can fucking auto tune my voice and say I smoke
all types of pro methazines and shit like fuck that
I'm about to get this money.

Speaker 5 (27:28):
Right, But it's technically proficient, and that's great my only.

Speaker 4 (27:33):
Whenever I talk about rappers, whenever I talk about MC's,
I would say ninety five percent of what I'm talking
about is just bars. It's just lyrics, how they put
words together. It might not even necessarily be content. It's
really just how they rap periodic, which is the only

(27:58):
reason why I even I don't I don't even want
to say the D word. Let's just focus on Cole.
Cole is an elite level rapper, and I was headging
my black I was walking the tightrope with coal, like
the Big Three conversation. And I told this story on
our podcast, like literally the month before the beef started,

(28:22):
my son and I were in a soccer tournament in Tampa, Florida,
and we just happened to be there the night of
Cole and Drake's concert, and it was like a perfect thing.
Like my son, he's at the time, he was seventeen,
of course he loves Drake and Cole, and I was like,
all right, let's go, let's go see Cole. And I was,
you know, I was expecting Cole to be what how

(28:44):
y'all describe him, which is, you know, the guy on
stage with the weird cutoff jeans, the unnecessarily baggy shirt,
the runover sneakers, like trying to look like BOSSI calls
him the rapper on campus. That's what I was just
and he did look like that. But the way that
dad Man controlled the crowd and lyrically just barred us down.

(29:09):
Like even my son seventeen years old, who's that lyrics
are not necessarily his guy his guy post, he was like, yo,
Cole is nasty and we just left there.

Speaker 5 (29:20):
Literally, y'all were tired from the soccer tournament because there's
nothing they are. I'm hearing you and there's just nothing.
You know, when you see like a Maxwell performance and
he's like doing the splits and like there's no Maxwell
song that makes this make sense?

Speaker 4 (29:41):
Right?

Speaker 5 (29:43):
I don't like I love hip hop, I love lyrics.
I love all the stuff that you mentioned. I cannot
remember the name of a Cold song, let alone a lyric.

Speaker 4 (29:54):
You see what I'm saying, You see like this is
this is crazy?

Speaker 3 (29:57):
Like I'm not.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Here's what I think. I'm between both of you because
I do like j Car. I do respect this talent.
I do think he has an incredible Mike presence, and
a big part of his ship is that he does
ship by himself, and that's like the boost that he
gets that from his fans that other people don't understand
because they're like.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Why is that a big deal?

Speaker 1 (30:16):
It's like, I don't know, man, nigga with that type
of style not supposed to be able to have a
crowd in his hand. It's just he's a very like
even the fact that he sang all his on hugs,
you know that, the no features thing, it's a real thing.
I'm from North Carolina. That was very fucking impressive. You're
not really co signed by anyone. You don't have any
fucking big names on your goddamn album. Every song just

(30:39):
you and you went platinum. Yeah, okay, bro, I respect
that shit that being said, not top three and uh
not the Big three. And honestly, if I was taking
future out, I'm throwing in Tyler the Creator.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
That's how I enough.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
You.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
You talked about it, you talked about seeing somebody, you
talked about seeing somebody in person.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
We me and Karen just came from seeing Tyler Creator.
Like a month.

Speaker 6 (31:09):
Tyler Create did a motherfucking one man show. I mean
one man show. No backup dances, no backup singers, no backup.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
To the backup that niggas out there, what man moving
across the motherfucking stage all by all the people all
the way over the over the crowd into another thing
where he's giving us acting and fucking.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Rap like five works everything.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
Like it's like he when he goes to play his
old songs, there's us in the set piece he has.
He's literally walking towards a crate of records and you
see like different influences of his and then he'll pull
out like this song this album. Everyone goes crazy because
they recognize the cover. It's like flower Boy or whatever.
He puts it on, plays like three songs, starts rapping along,

(31:55):
takes it off like brings the crowd down with them,
the way he's like moving his body, even though like
because he's a showman, he's not just a he's not
just a rat.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
He's giving you like visuals.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Oh you're gonna get to perform them, showing up dressed
up like the fucking like toy thing with the ego
hair and ask the mad like the nigga just built different.
And I feel like our generation like two years too
old to recognize how fucking important he is. And then
it was a beast yeah, and all the but in
that concert, all the young people fucking knew it was

(32:29):
crazy because he not young. No one know he was
eating roaches like fifteen years ago. Dog, this this nigga
is over thirty now. And it was like at one
point he was rapping one of his old songs. It's like,
how do y'all kids know this? Like y'all, y'all are
too young to know this ship And I was really
rapping about some crazy shit back then. Anyway, enough j

(32:51):
Cole slander guys. Okay in case he's listening.

Speaker 5 (32:57):
But you but you bringing up Tyler? This is what
I'm talking about. There's a level of you can see
the third line from where Tyler started to where he's now,
Like he's grown his game, he's elevated his performance. He's
he's innovatives. These people are innovative. And Cole is just
the same nigga that he was ten years ago, Like

(33:18):
he just is. He's forty years old. I just find
he's forty years old. Mary, he's got a couple of kids, Like,
what are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (33:26):
That's why your.

Speaker 5 (33:26):
Life right now.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
But that's that's what's funny. That's why to his fans,
that's why he's dope, is that he ain't changed and
he's the same nigga from Blah Da Dah, He's just
he's yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
With the caesar he has.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
You know what Cole is to me in a way,
He's like if Nas never did showty owe me for
I like, if he just was like, I'm actually not
gonna chase that type of fucking fame. I'm gonna be
a MC's MC and all all the rappers will respect
and love me, and I'm gonna be everyone's friend, which
is where he fuck up.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
But I'm gonna be everyone's friend.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
And honestly, at this point, if you're making the argument,
I mean far being from me to help out the
J Cole side of the argument.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
But if I was making the argument and I was
a J.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Cole fan, what I would be doing is trying to
move Drake out of the Big three now and and
like and say, Jay No, Cole should be in there.
Drake should be out because look how bad everything's gone
from him in a year. Cole still still doing it.
He just had that fucking festival, He's still putting out songs.
I think I would try to bump Drake out because

(34:32):
I feel like that's where you and the Kendrick people
could find common ground.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Oh yeah, and they.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Would be grudgingly except j Cole in to that top
three as long as Tyler.

Speaker 5 (34:40):
Wasn't around, except a fan.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
But I know, I'm just saying. I'm just saying.

Speaker 4 (34:48):
I wouldn't say fans. We're not going to live the
speed work together. That's y'all. Wait, hold on real quick.
You just want at the concert, right, Cole did this joint? Y'all?
Y'all noticed on nice Watch? Listen, listen, of course, VOSSI

(35:08):
does it.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
You know, feel bad?

Speaker 4 (35:12):
I met the light turn in the nice Watch and
the crowd combusted like I've never seen. I wasn't expecting
that crowd. We're in Tampa, Florida, right, mostly white folks
in the crowd. You know it was us in there too.
But that was the moment when he did nice Watch.

(35:34):
I was like Chris Niggas the top three. That was
literally I had chillen.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
So look, everybody gotta go see Colon concert before we
can judge, and then we have a spiritual experience. We
gotta come back and apologize to Mike. I will accept
that if.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
I re see him live.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
And I had that feeling of like, damn, this motherfucker.
Only they only made one of these. I promise you
I'll come back in and apologize because I'm always new information.
But as of right now, Kendrick and Tyler gave me
that feeling this year, and I was like, God, damn,
thank god I'm alive for them being alive at this time,

(36:13):
because they must suck for the people.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
That missed this ship. All right, guys, let's talk about Sinners.

Speaker 4 (36:20):
All right.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
We talked about a lot of stuff. I didn't mean
to get into the cold of it all. Yeah, so
let me just go around the room and just start
with this. How did you see Sinners? Like, well, did
you go Opening Night? Opening weekend? You know, did you
get the imax all that stuff. I'll start first you, Mike,

(36:42):
then Bossi and Karen. You can tell them about ours.

Speaker 4 (36:46):
Sure, yeah, I start Opening Weekend. I happened to be
in there's a theme here. I was in Florida. It's
not a where coincidence. I was celebrating my fraternity. Uh
my line had our thirtieth anniversary, remember of a fi
off of anybody was wondering, and we were in Orlando

(37:07):
celebrating our anniversary and we were just trying to find
something to do. And I was the only one that
I really wanted to go see it. But we have
some some of my lbs that you know that a
little little Christian, little Christian eye, and uh, they weren't
really feeling it. But I was like, yo' I'm gonna go.
Then I'm gonna just go. Y'a'll be okay. But we

(37:28):
all went, uh and saw it in one of the
Disney theaters, like on the Disney Land. They have this
crazy like a mall inside of the Disney World, and
it was you know, that's how I saw it on
the opening weekend, I think on Saturday.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Was it crowded or yeah, okay it And was it
Imax or just regular?

Speaker 4 (37:51):
H it was Imax? Yep, it was it was Imax.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
What how'd you see it?

Speaker 5 (37:57):
I saw it last Thursday, I think. And I'm not
a I'm not a I'm not gonna say I'm not
a movie person, but there are very few times where
like I have to see this in the theater. But
there was something about the way that people were talking
about it that I was like, I think I need

(38:18):
to see this. And then on top of that, I mean,
I don't care if I'm spoiled, like I'm like, tell
me the ending so I know what to expect, Like
I don't. I don't need to be shocked. I don't
need any of that. For some reason, every time something
would show up, I would scroll right past it or
I would click out, like I didn't want to hear
it for some reason. But people like you have to see,

(38:41):
you have to see, you have to see it, and
I was like absolutely. And then it was leaving Imax,
which I didn't know that was the thing. I thought
it just stayed in Imax until until it went to
a dollar theater. I don't know. I just didn't think
there was that. So I was like, okay, I want
to see it before us Imax, And it was it
was leaving that Friday, but there was only one theater,

(39:01):
like God, like fifteen miles away that still had it
on IMAX. So I drove out there to watch it.
And this is how, this is how blind I was
in going in. I did not know the vampires were involved.
That caught me completely off guard. I was like, hold on,

(39:23):
wait a second. I didn't know any of that was
going on. But like I'm sitting there and I'm watching
this movie, and I'm like this is a nice movie,
like this is this is great, Michael B. Jordan's acting
his ass off, like just watching like the very into it,
but still kind of processing. I don't know what people are,
what people were seeing. And then it got to the

(39:44):
point where I was like okay, and it was this,
well we'll talk about it, but like it was a
scene with Delroy Lindo and I was like okay, and
I sat up. I still didn't know what the van.
I didn't know about vampires, but I knew at that
point there's something happening and I need to pay attention
to it. And yeah, it was.

Speaker 4 (40:03):
It was the.

Speaker 5 (40:06):
Actually I sent money to my cousin so that he
could watch it in Nigeria. Like that's how much. I
was like, you need to see this movie because I
need to talk to you about it. Because he's he's
a very he's literally like literally a genius, not like
oh he's a genius, he's literally certified genius. And I
wanted to know what the movie was like in Africa
because I knew what it was felt like to be

(40:28):
American in America and black watching it and uh, just
to see what the what what you know, what the
what the nuance is like what did you get out
of it? But I sat there, Thank god, I sat
there and cried for an hour, because otherwise I would
have missed the two u ending credits and.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
Fool theater when you saw it, it wasn't very full.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
The whole.

Speaker 5 (40:55):
I think that like the like the the middle part,
like there was nobody in the front. The back was
pretty empty, but like everyone was kind of congregated in
the same like yeah that like hjk ella, you know
a bit of it. But it was like twelve in
the afternoon or it might have been twelve thirty and.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
It was a couple cross Yeah it was, And it
was a couple of weeks in so that you know,
the crowd would be doing it in at some point.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah, yeah, Karen, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
I think we've said how ours was on the on
our spoil review, But I don't know if you want
to tell people.

Speaker 6 (41:30):
Oh I can, we like to We don't like things
being spoiled, so we go see shit like Thursday night,
and so we went to go see it Thursday afternoon.
Now all look aside For me, I just knew it
was Koogla and I could be Joydan that's all I knew,
and I knew was black, so I didn't know about

(41:51):
Vampire Ze.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
I'm telling truth.

Speaker 6 (41:52):
I was just like because I was like, it's scary,
but I know it's not gonna get into Gore because
I'm afraid of Cat, So I don't like Gore.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
You know, I can do sci Fi, I can do
all that shit.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
You can kill people trying to peopr head off, but
when you get into Gore, I'm like, I'm out.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
And so I was like, well, I know it's not
going to be like the Gore part, like you know,
getting a kind of horror. So I'm like, okay, I'm good.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
So me and Roger went to go see it, and
since we go so early, a lot of times it's
not as packed, but it was actually pretty crowded in there,
and a lot of times for me and Roger that
normally dictates how it's going to go for the rest
of the weekend because the people like us who go
like see that first first screening, we normally don't want
it spoiled.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
We want to see it before everything start hitting the timeline.

Speaker 6 (42:36):
And so for me, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it
a lot. I think that.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
I like the fact that I went in blind, if
that makes sense. I liked the fact that I didn't
know what was happening nor what was going on, so
literally everything was a surprise for me, and so for me,
that's what made the experience not trying funny more magical
for me, versus just having people just talk about it
and ruin it and spoiled, you know what I mean,
spoiled Like I understand some people don't like I mean,

(43:07):
I mean, don't mind spoilers, but I like the shock
and I like I like those feelings that kind of
because I want the storyteller to tell me the story
and me respond in a real.

Speaker 6 (43:17):
Time reaction versus for a lot of people. And it's
just me not to get off topic.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
People go digging for shit, they find shit, and didn't
blame the artists for the shit that they.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Knew in the dance that don't make sense.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah, I think it's interesting too, because like, how did
it like, how you heard about it and your excitement
level from just the idea of it. I think also
was a big thing because Hollywood kind of missed it
because it's very white centric. Black people were very excited

(43:50):
about a Ryan Coogler, Michael B.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Jordan.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
I've just seen people taking it like you brought up
something right away, which is that you don't even like
this genre of movie, which I mean, we can you
know this isn't really the genre but the one that
in the trailer they promoted it as a horror movie. Yes, yes,
so you don't even like the genre, but you like
It's Coogler and Michael Boran.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Like, I'm not gonna miss not your fundy.

Speaker 6 (44:13):
I will fight through whatever they're presenting to me because
I know whatever it is. It's like in my mind
him and Peel are like, oh, it's gonna be good
no matter what they show me.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
Well that's what I was saying.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
And I think white Hollywood ain't tapped in ever to
black culture, so they missed that this was gonna be
a hit. Like almost everything I saw was like questioning
the budget, like why is this ninety million dollars? Because
like before you and then like then the first wave
of reviews came in, which like a perfect scoring right

(44:44):
in Tomatoes, to which I still think for a lot
of white folks it's that what is it?

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Black's only given perfectly? Like I don't think they believe it.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
It's when the numbers come in that they start being like,
oh shit, this was a this is actually a hit,
and I need to go see it.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
Right.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
But it's interest in that all three of us are
kind of come from the same angle of like, no,
it's Ryan Coogland.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
We were going to see it.

Speaker 3 (45:06):
Yeah, it's like a Black Panther.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
I wasn't gonna miss Black Panther, even if I didn't
know nothing about Black order Panther.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
I was going to go see it.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
Right, correct.

Speaker 5 (45:13):
Yeah. I don't like horror. I don't like being like
there was a portion of the movie when I was
just like this where I was just like, y'all just
gonna have to I have to guess what's going on.
I don't like things jumping out and all of that,
And had somebody told me it was horror, I probably
would not have seen it until it was on television.

Speaker 4 (45:34):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (45:34):
So I'm really, really, really really glad that that I
went in completely unspoiled. I didn't even see a trailer,
to be honest with you, I didn't even see a trailer.
I saw nothing.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
The first like this minute has like three jump scares
in it and I'm like, I'm like those poor people
that they.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Trusted you, Ryan, they trusted you.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
You betrayed him immediately and no more jump scares for
like an hour forty minutes.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
I just I don't know what made him make that choice.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
He got my ass though, because I was like, oh, ship,
I was about to get crazy.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
And then then we got a beautiful portrait.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
Of black Southern life.

Speaker 4 (46:10):
Gonna say, Mike, I was gonna say, do you all
remember when the previews first came out, like they've been
out for a minute. They were out for a while,
and I didn't know, probably for the first six months
that it was a horror movie, Like you saw the
piece the you know, the parts where would blood on

(46:31):
people's faces. But I was like, are they cannibals? I
don't know what was happening, But they kept on the
first wave of commercials was only showing Michael B. Jordan
with the gun at the end he was popping out.
I was like, oh, it's the war movie.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Well for me, for me, it was Haley Stanfield whatever
when she's got the blood on her mouth and she like, yeah, y'all.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Gonna let us in.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
And they showed him like crawl clawing at the door.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
I was like, that look like.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Vampires to me.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Those are vampire rules in the trailer, because you don't
have to let in no other motherfucking monsters.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Everybody else just bust up.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
In that bit.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
So I was like, okay, you know, obviously hinting towards
some type of vampire thing. But it was interesting to
hearing the coverage because I think a lot of the
coverage was like the vampire movie. You know, the black
guy's making the vampire movie. And I'm like, hmm, I
don't think that it's I don't think Ryan Coochler's is
straightforward as you guys are writing him to be. He's

(47:33):
not gonna just give us, you know, a like a
Robert Rodriguez horror movie. It's gonna it's there's gonna be
more to it because he's too thoughtful. He's the Kendrick
of Hollywood.

Speaker 5 (47:44):
I was about to say that. I was about to
say exactly that it's late whatever it is that they
tapped into it, I thought. So I thought about Kendrick
so much while watching the movie. Yes, like just just
I was like, this is and I think also I
was just telling some about I hope I hope they're
all in the group chat together, because because there's no

(48:08):
way if they know each other, there's no way that
that that that Ryan didn't have input on the super
Bowl halftime show. You can't you can't tell me it's
a coincidence. You can't tell me that, Oh, we just
so happened to be doing that. No, y'all, y'all talk
to each other, y'all had notes. Y'all are like, oh,
I can't use this part, so you can use that.
Like I refused to believe it was just coincidence.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Yeah, Kendricks trying to get into Hollywood too, so I
feel like they had to run across each other at
some point.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
All right, So then let's talk more about.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
The movie right overall enjoyment of the movie, Karen, you
go first, then Mike Dan BOSSI.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it a lot.

Speaker 6 (48:47):
It uh delivered, and it did have gump scares, but
like I say, it wasn't like the horrific jump scare
like I'm doing ship just because like that, this like
the scares had a purpose for me, and I don't
mind it having a purpose.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
And also a lot of times when it comes to
there's things that of course, there's.

Speaker 6 (49:11):
Certain genres where you can kind of float around and
things don't got to make sense.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
But this kind of made sense to me because sometimes.

Speaker 6 (49:17):
Hard just just do shit just to do shit, because
they can do shit and be like.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
Oh, y'all sposed to understand bench I don't what happened,
you know type of thing. And so for me, I
love the way.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
That it did did it but you know, but you
know what that is?

Speaker 1 (49:31):
I think I think that works because he's not making
a horror movie like he like, I think if he
was making a horror movie, they do get really nebulous
at the end with like and then the ghost was
afraid of Jesus and you're like, what you never set
that up? That's not the third act can't end that
way because you need the foreshadow that that was a

(49:52):
solution that could be had, you know whatever. I think
he was like, vampires are just a vehicle for the
third act, is like, they're just an allegory, right, But
he's not trying to make a vampire movie, which is
why I don't know. Seventy five percent of the reviews
that are discussing it as a horror movie are just
missing the mark so.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Badly because I'm like, well, in horror you do this.
I'm like, that's not what the movie.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
Is though, it's so you don't do that. No, you
we don't know the main vampire's orgon story. We don't
have to know. I'm fine not known. Like, yeah, So
I thought that was interesting, Mike, your general thoughts about
the movie.

Speaker 4 (50:30):
You know something that I just thought about and hearing
so many of Bossi's takes on Kendrick and gn X
and and thinking through I never thought that, dang, maybe
they were working together all this time, Like there was
definitely some creative connections happening there. But you know how
Kendrick used the California sound on gn X to like

(50:55):
alter the trajectory of his overall sound. I feel like
Googler used horror vampires this genre to tap into a
different creative layer of his storytelling, right. I think there's
so much similarity there. And I never thought about them

(51:15):
together until this week and I heard Ryan Cougler talk
more and I brought this up on the show on
our show this week, But his accent sounds like it
made me feel like gn X like and part of
the reason why. I'm from Brooklyn, so I just gotta
let you I just gotta put that caveat there. I

(51:37):
love I love Kendrick, He's one of my favorites. But
gn X made me feel a way because it was
so California and I wasn't expecting that. So I would
imagine that people that were coming to either see a
you know, black Panther or fruit val station or you know,
might not have been prepared to see a vampire movie
or horror movie however they classified it. But overall, I mean,

(51:59):
I think the movie was it was stunning. It was
like one of those It was one of those movies
where at the end, I definitely sat in the theater
after the ending credits and whenever there's like a creative masterpiece,
like I could tell by my chills, like that's a

(52:20):
part of my you know, I had chills so many
times through the movie. But it wasn't about you know,
the storyline, of course, but it was like everything coming together.
It was the images on the screen. It was almost
like there were certain images that could be paintings right
that you could hang on your wall and just look
at it. For the stuff happening in the background. The
way that they used colors, the way that they used

(52:43):
you know sounds, Sammy's character Sammy right, I didn't know, Yeah,
I didn't know he could sing. So when he started singing,
I was like, why do you using a voiceover? Like
it sounded so it didn't sound real, like so like
how they were saying his voice was a portal to
another world. It felt like that for real. Like I

(53:06):
was like, so it left me after the after the movie,
I was like, I gotta I gotta go search him
because that voice is not His voice reminded me of
Donnie Hathaway's, Like whenever I listened to the way, I
burst into tears, Like not even on those salt stuff,
but it's like there's something about his voice that breaks
me down whenever he sings. If he's singing this Christmas,

(53:30):
I'm like, you know, But there were so many aspects
of the movie that were just beautiful, and you know,
it was just breathtaking. The initial sentiment I had at
the end of the movie before you know, the thing
pieces and everybody was breaking it down. I thought the

(53:51):
initial uh my reflection was it was about the music industry,
Like that's where like my initial brain went was like
this is about specifically on the heels of Drake and
Kendrick and talking about culture vultures and thinking about some
of the conversations we heard from Damon Dash and Lee
or Cohen, and I was thinking of all these people

(54:12):
like oh, that's leor Okay, that voice there, that's Kendrick,
Like this is this person And it was just such
a visceral feeling. And at the end I was feel
that towards the end the movie and at the end
where they were in the Blues in the Blues Joint
and yeah, in the club and the characters walk in
dressed you know, like nineties like gangster, I was like, oh,

(54:37):
this is this is this is a gangster rap. This
is when the gangster rap came in and changed the industry,
you know, and all the music documentaries they always say,
and then in nineteen ninety two, gangster rap changed the
scene and like that to me was represented in that
final scene. It was just it was phenomenal. There's just
no words. I want to see it again. And I

(55:00):
tend to not us as you all could probably see,
I tend to like not believe hype a lot, and
I'm always like why do you really want me to
see this? Like what is really behind this? But there
was nothing I could say negative about this movie, Like
there's literally nothing like it was a perfect film to me.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
Okay, yes, did J call the films for you?

Speaker 2 (55:26):
BOSSI? What do you think? What was your overall impression?

Speaker 5 (55:31):
I I walked out of the theater crying my eyes out,
but walked away saying, this is the best movie I've
ever seen. This is this is my favorite movie. And
I have to mention that my son saw it like
the week before and he was like, it's the best
movie that ever. It was like, it's the best movie ever.

(55:51):
And but when I spoke to him after I saw it,
he I was just balled up and you know, like
still emotional. He's like, why are you crying? Did we
see the same movie? And I was like yes, I
was like didn't you get them? And I started talking
about He was like I got the vampires and I
was like, okay. So the fact that he and I

(56:13):
favorite movie, love the movie, best movie we ever saw
both said the same thing, but from different perspectives. I
thought that was that is a testimony to how genius
and talented Ryan Coogler is because he knew that he
knew that this movie had to work on like five

(56:34):
different levels, and it invited people seeing it over and
over again. I think that Michael just blew my mind.
Mike just blew my mind because when you start talking
about the record industry, and then I was like, okay,
and then he comes in he smells death on the
blues and then this is when the blues and like

(56:56):
the fact that we feel so much in our music
that starts like dial okay, but I was thinking about
it from the like the the the the the metaphor
of black people in America and like, but I think
that like a Kendrick song, all of that is true

(57:16):
on the one level, Yeah, shake ya asked of this song?
But also the third versus this and then also it's
about Drake, but also it's about y'all, you know what
I mean. Like all those levels showed up in this
movie for me, and I was so I could see.
Also I'm not a comic book person, but I did
see what kinda Forever and Black Panther. But I saw

(57:38):
him use the Marvel formula to create something so mind
blowing to a point where I'm looking at him like
like after I got back in my stud I was like,

(58:00):
who are you like, Like, like seriously, who are you? Like?
When I get into my my mic bag, it's like,
I feel like people are otherworldly. I feel like you're
a prophet. I feel like you were sent here to
teach us something. That's the same way I feel about Kendrick.
But it's the same level of there's you're not seeing

(58:20):
things the same way that the average person sees things right,
and the way that you have learned to manipulate your talents,
it's the same way that Sammy was learned to manipulate
his talents and and and and show a world that
we knew existed. Like I think that black people watch

(58:42):
this movie and got something completely different. Even when white
people understood it, it wasn't the same way that we
understood it, I don't think. And the ability to tap
into that is so remarkable. And it's and it's it's
doing I keep bringing back to Kendrick and I'm gonna
try not to say his name again after that. But
like it's like right and wrong. It's like putting things,

(59:05):
it's course correcting, it's putting things back on track. This
is what our movies and our art were supposed to do.
Beyonce too, this is what it's supposed to do. It's
supposed to be fun and entertaining. We're suposed to dance
and have a good time. And I laughing at Drake,
but it's also supposed to like sink into our bones.
Like that's what black art has always done through through
through time. It's only recently where we stopped. We stopped

(59:29):
expecting our art to move us. Yeah, I think in
in profound ways.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
I think also like it's the that feeling you can
feel as a black person where there's a difference between
selling blackness to the world and and just making something
black for us that the world will obviously glom onto,
because you know, contrary to propably belief, white people love

(59:58):
black shit anything.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
They love it too much.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Historically they have, they have loved to have it for free.
They have loved a bunch of ship they weren't suppoed
to have. But like, I definitely felt that in the movie,
like this is some of these moments and cultural touchdowns
are so insular and black, but it's still a great movie.

(01:00:22):
You don't have to be black to know it's great.
You don't have to be black to even like, you
don't have to get every cultural reference to know that's
a cultural reference.

Speaker 4 (01:00:30):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
I don't understand.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Exactly what he's talking about, but I but I got
close enough. I don't, you know, I don't need to
fill it in my bones per se to still be able.
Which is why that fucking writing critics written Tomato story
is so high because all.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Them people ain't black.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
A lot of people just like, fuck, I've never seen
a movie like this before. The only things I would
add to just stuff y'all were saying for me was,
h it it's so beautifully intricately intentionally done. Every fucking
thing is crazy. It's is it is crazy. And the
acting like Michael B. Jordans I already I already had respect.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
For my man, Michael B.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Jordan, but I know it was a lot of holdouts
out there. I was just remind people like he was
Wallace first, like like I think as people that people
that don't think he can act skip over Wallace and
go straight to like Michael B. Jordan had grown up
and they're like he always do same God like that
Nigga was Wallace. That while I cried for Wallace dog.
That was different that that mother fucking And then I

(01:01:32):
saw him in his first like big movie role where
oh fuck was that We went to go see in
the theater and he wasn't on That and Loan, but
that Chronicle.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
He stole the goddamn show.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
It was Chronicle.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Karen and I walked out of the theater and I said,
Oh my god, he's a star.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
Yes. I was like, I don't know who that nigga is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
He's like the third He's the third bill person in
a weird sci fi white boy movie. And I'm like, no,
that that guy's the movie star. Them other two dudes,
I don't know what they're gonna go on to do
with their lives.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
He's gonna be in a lot of movies.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
He's gonna be somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
Yeah, So he's you don't what.

Speaker 5 (01:02:08):
My introduction to Michael B. Jordan was Friday Parenthood on NVC.
That was the first time that I ever saw him,
and I was like, I was one of the people
who's like, he's all right, but he's always been acting
against people that I particularly thought were like powerhouses. So
I to me, he paled in comparison to like a childwick.

(01:02:30):
To me, but also watching him on Parenthood. Watching him
on Parenthood amongst mediocre people, I was like, why are
you on that show? And you know when he when
I saw him later in movies, I was like, oh,
that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
He was great in Friday Night Lights as well the
TV show version.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
And then the other.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
Thing is in this movie he.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Plays these twins and I love that him and Ryan
Coogler did this because so many people go over the
fucking top.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
He played the twins in a way where.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
It's like, these are two black people that grew up
together in the same area.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
They wouldn't be that fucking different.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Like normally when you do twins, it's like it becomes
that acting theater exercise where it's like.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
I nerd me and I'm jock me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Yeah, and it was it didn't come.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
Off like that, And I was like, this feels so
much more richer and lived in and plausible that these
two guys smoking stack would be like some hustling ass
dudes from the South that went to the North, hit
a lick, came back like this still hustling. Like all
that shit felt real. The way the camera loved all
the blackness on the screen.

Speaker 5 (01:03:34):
Oh, it loved everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
No one had to look bad, which here's a you know,
white cinematographers of you know, just a little.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
No one has to look bad.

Speaker 6 (01:03:45):
You can just work a little harder because there's a
white woman that does it, and she she.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
Does that thing with the camera loves. It reminds me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
It reminds me of Insecure, where it's like it wasn't
like I was looking at it going the camera loves
the black people, but the white people look pasty. It's
like somehow, when when you make it good enough to
make the black people look great, everyone looks great, right,
But especially the way I loved like woman Masokka Musuku
i skin like it felt good to see a person

(01:04:13):
like that be appreciated, uh, and like you could fill
it in the audience in the crowd because the movie
was extremely sexy and so you could feel the like
when when she was standing at the door and he
was at the grave. I was like, no, they're not
gonna yeah, they they're not gonna be fucking in five minutes,
because that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Was probably not you know what, that's me, that's me
and my sick mind.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Let me get my mind out the gutter and bam,
they was hitting it from the back in five minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
Like I was like, well, I guess, Ryan Coogler, you
know the audience, sir, carry on. We needed and were
kind of forever.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
When he threw Nikita was in the jumpsuit, I was like, Oh,
so we're gonna put We're gonna put lape.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
She goes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
She the one gotta go down. She gotta go down
to the sea. Okay, whatever you say, whatever you say,
that's what you mean. I'm sorry I about to say
this was a sexy ass movie with no nude scenes.
I think a lot of people overlooked that because because
because they know how it made them feel. But if

(01:05:20):
they actually go back, there was not one titty pulled
out of aside, like like, there was not one ass
cheek like you seen ass, but the ass was COVID
if that makes sense, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:05:32):
And there were only two sex scenes and they weren't graphic.
Yet people still walked away thinking that was a sexy
ass movie. Have to do with everything surrounding it, the
whole juke like atmosphere, and yeah, they.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Was in their senting, you know what I mean, So
so all right, but yeah, and then what was the
other thing I had. I'm sorry I wrote down these things. Oh,
collaboration is Ryan Coogler's superpower. That's the real thing. That's why,
that's why you do the Marvel movies. You don't just
like you leaving with something. It's shout out to Denzel,
you're leaving with something. So like leaving out out of

(01:06:09):
Marvel Studios and getting like Ruthie Carter, I think it's
her name to be the person that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Did wardrobe for this movie. That's a big hit.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Getting that money, that budget, that ninety million, so you
can afford to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Obviously, his relationship with Michael B.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
Jordan.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
I think one met was in a Disney show over
there for Loki, Like Buddy did not leave the recipe.
He like he was over there was it's like he
was working in the kitchen that fucking like KFC. But
he had a notepad out like so thirteen spices, okay, yeah,
all right, And when he went home he was like,

(01:06:46):
but if you throw some extra paprika in that motherfuck
it out, it's gonna be like they sitting on something.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
But I got the formula over here.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
So that collaboration I could feel it on the screen
between the actors.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
You could feel that it was a fun set.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
That it looked so good, and I love that it
didn't like ice out. It wasn't a statement about It
wasn't an overt statement of like what if black people
were like white people and we were we refuse to
acknowledge anything and every like.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
I loved that it was inclusive.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
I love the stuff with Asian people within the culture,
within the community, being within being within the framework of this.
I believe they had some like either Latino people obviously
saw naive Americans, but I believe us on Latino people
in the cooking scene in there, if I'm not mistaken.
But I just liked that it was more like, this
is a community story. It's not about a fuck the

(01:07:39):
white man's story. That's that Like, not that those overtones
undertones can't be present within the black community, but that's
not the purpose of the movie. You know, I didn't
walk in there expecting to see panther or I don't
remember that shitty that's probably a bad reference.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
Anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
I didn't walk in there expected to be like, you know,
down with the white It wasn't like that, even though
Jason Will clearly took it that way. So let's get
into some of these characters and stuff, because I think
that that kind of helps.

Speaker 4 (01:08:07):
Oh right now, I forgot that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Yeah, yeah, they're like they know what's up with that box.
The last thing I meant to say is it's a
as a Southern black person, it is a love letter
to a part of America that very very rarely gets
seen in that light from people from black people. Like
we see white people do the like plantation, wedding, ass

(01:08:33):
gone with the wind bullshit all the time down here,
and I think, you know, one of the questions you
always hear from people or you know these I hate
that this happens, but it's like the other dash for rewards,
the while y'all live down there, move and it's like
because it's ours, we from here too, it is beautiful
to us, like this this is my land as well,

(01:08:54):
and they don't just get to fucking take it from
me unless we gotta fight for it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:58):
And so it felt like that to me, especially the.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
Final like scene with uh with with the with the
gun and the klan, like it was like there's fighters
in our blood down here too. It's not all just
giving it up or whatever. And seeing like the culture
and all that stuff. Uh and the land and uh
and even the swamp even like all that stuff get loved.

Speaker 5 (01:09:22):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
I don't know when's the last time I saw that.
It's been decades since I saw that on the screen.

Speaker 3 (01:09:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:09:28):
And also I really loved Oh, go ahead, Bissie, just
just very very quickly. I can't remember. I started getting
the twins confused after a point. But I don't know
whether there was smoke or staff that told Sammy that
Chicago ain't nothing but plantations with SA skyscrapers. Yes, and
that I think that's just what you were saying, Robert.
People think that, oh that the South is just what

(01:09:51):
are they doing? Let's get rid of the Red States,
like like black people don't live there and face like
the exact same things.

Speaker 6 (01:09:56):
Yeah, And I think it was I think it was
stat cam so to kind of piggyback on what Rod
is saying as somebody who's a Southerner and actually just
loves the South, like I love being down here.

Speaker 3 (01:10:09):
I actually not your funny.

Speaker 6 (01:10:10):
I don't want to live anywhere else to truth be told,
and it's you know, and it's also one of those
things where I'm glad that a lot of people who
are not trying to fundy don't know nothing about the
South and just think South the South is just this country,
bunking ass place where everybody just you know, eat backwards
and all this other ignorant bullshit because they just don't
know no better. Actually got to see in a beautiful light. Yeah,

(01:10:32):
I mean all aside, like like they actually got to
got there.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
It was see it as Sammy said, it was the
best day of his life. Until it wasn't.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
And but if that's how that movie felt, I was like,
this is the best day of everybody's life. They about
to have a party, like this shit is, this is lit.
You're hanging out with your big cousin, they looking out
for you, about to make a little money. It felt
so good and then it, you know, till it there wasn't.
All Right, let's let's go through characters, because I think
that's probably the easiest way to like break these films down.

Speaker 4 (01:11:03):
Can I add something in real quickly?

Speaker 3 (01:11:05):
Gosh, yeah, go ahead, brother, No the I wanted.

Speaker 4 (01:11:08):
To pick up what what what you and Karen were
saying about the South as a as a Northerner, I
didn't even think.

Speaker 5 (01:11:16):
About the.

Speaker 4 (01:11:21):
I didn't even think about the like the letter, the
love Letter to the South. I completely missed that, But
as you were describing it, it made me think of
the first time I saw Crookland and the way that
Spike Lee shot Crookland, like I saw my entire family

(01:11:41):
in every single one of those of those people. And
remember when she went to the South, to Virginia to
be with her family, Like that is how Northerners thought
of the South. She went down there, I don't want
to be here, But then when she left, she didn't
want to leave, like to me like that, you describing

(01:12:02):
that made me think of like the richness, and I
haven't seen to this moment someone shoot New York like
Spike Lee did there right, just supposed like how you're
talking about cooler shop.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
Yeah, black people, black people finally getting in positions to
have our imprint on these discussions in our art is
so important.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
I'm not from the West Coast.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
I love gn X because Kendrick's from the West Coast
and he said, I'm making something right. He's like, and
that's what you feel like, I don't need to I
have never been to Rosecrans. I don't know about Southwest Atlanta,
georg Atlanta either because I ain't have to be there
when olcass is rapping street names and ship I just
knew that them niggas had been on them streets. And

(01:12:45):
that's I felt that because I'm a nigga that's been
on some streets and that and that I feel like
that's what came across with Coogler when he was doing this.

Speaker 6 (01:12:54):
And also I love the fact that Ryan Coogler has
a very thick accent and he just and change it.
And I love the fact that his accent is authentic.
So he made this movie, but black people's accent was
authentic to the South.

Speaker 3 (01:13:09):
Like he was like, y'all gonna learn some draw like
like and not tell me funny like as somebody.

Speaker 6 (01:13:13):
Who lives down here who have seen bad movies made
but by people quote unquote pretending and not actually talking
like we talked.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
We talked slower, we have draws and things like that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
Because the thing is, when it comes to it, you
know how you felt about Spike Lee, That's how I
felt about this, because you know, we want to be
represented in a massive way too. You know, New York
ain't the only place in LA ain't the only place.
You know what I'm saying, it's a whole swap of
niggas down here too.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
It definitely you feel seen.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
And then I did want to make say a small thing,
which is Atlanta made me feel like that.

Speaker 4 (01:13:49):
Too, though.

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
Oh I loved Atlanta like.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
Atlanta because like.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
That that TV show is set in the present, so
it's it's it's how I grew up talking.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Yes, like those niggas talk. I know niggas that just
sound like that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
And that was like the first thing that made me
sit up in my seat when Atlanta Drot was like,
whoa wait a minute, this is a good depiction. And
of course you know, Donald Glover's from down there, so
a lot of people, you know, no matter how much
they hate him, that's they can't make it not true.

Speaker 5 (01:14:17):
That's the thing too, just just in general, whenever people
talk about like how much Donald Glover hates black people
or whatever, I was like, it's not possible. You can't
make Atlanta and hate black people, right, I absolutely cannot.
And Ryan loves black people. And I keep bringing Beyonce

(01:14:38):
in because because but she do I think she loves
black people. Kendrick loves black people, and the difference between
a black person who loves black people and makes art
for the people he loves or people they love. It's
so much different than somebody who either tolerates or doesn't
care or is like, you know whatever about you. You

(01:15:00):
can hear the lack of you can hear the vampire
lack of soul, and in a lot of these and
a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
You can feel the difference in a product that's just
this was my pitch was black such and such.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
You know, hey, it's black Dracula whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:15:17):
Fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
Like you can feel the difference where you're like, oh,
this isn't really you're selling black people. You're hey, come
watch black people do this, as opposed to like, I
made this is black because I'm Black, So I'm not
really interested in the experiences of outside of myself as
far as making them the focal point of any story.

Speaker 3 (01:15:35):
And that's how it is.

Speaker 5 (01:15:36):
I'm not trying to explain black people to any of us, right,
I'm not explaining this, So that is what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
That felt like, All right, characters, I'm gonna start with
Remick first because I feel like Remick is like the
most misunderstood and also like people have a lot of
sympathy for them.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
People have a lot of.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
Like, like media literacy I think is as fucked right
and it's a toilet. So like I've been watching people
discuss Remick and you know, beyond jokes, like if it's
a joke, it's a joke, I'm not right, but like
people really feel like he's an abolitionist. People really felt
like he's offering black people like equality and freedom, that

(01:16:16):
he's definitely not a racist, that you know, all that
stuff I've seen that I don't want to say names
because a lot of people going write in and all
this other shit. I don't want to start no podcast
beef but it's not. But it's multiple people I've seen
any people said, but I'll start first with you, Bossi,

(01:16:38):
and then we'll go Mike and then Karen.

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
What did you think of the character of Remi?

Speaker 5 (01:16:46):
Remy was a white far left socialist progressive. That's who
he was. And he was so adamant about saying or
I don't know if he said it, but like being
offended that he would thinking he was part of the clan,

(01:17:08):
Like how could you think I was part of them?
I just want to kill you and make you do
whatever it is that I need to do to make
myself feel better. I need you to sacrifice all of
your people for what I think is best for y'all.
None of my people are gonna die, really, but y'all all,
y'all should die and join my thing. The scene when

(01:17:31):
he was outside doing the little jig, it wasn't it
wasn't like he was doing a jig. And then he
started like, you know, popping and locking. He was doing
his shit, and then all the people around him were
doing what he was doing, and he wanted what they
had in order to find a way to turn it
into something that was useful for him.

Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
That is.

Speaker 5 (01:17:53):
People kept saying, oh, he's a white liberal. No, he
was a far left socialist, Like there's a certain kind
of blame person that he was very certain Mary was
a white liberal, but the rest of them, he was
a very specific kind of white person in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
Oh.

Speaker 5 (01:18:10):
Next, it was low key funny, though sometimes he was
very funny. I'll say that I.

Speaker 4 (01:18:16):
Think he was charming. He was charming. And I listen,
I live in North Carolina, y'all. I don't know if
y'all not, I'm in North Carolina. I'm in.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
Take your shirt off right.

Speaker 4 (01:18:30):
You know, like the helicopter and his character, more than
any character in there, reminded me of parents of the
children that my you know, parents are the kids my
kids go to school with, right, and specifically it's a
very specific box. You will see this eye to eye

(01:18:54):
when your kids play sports. Right, there's like a level
of you know, if your kids are good, right, they're
gonna level of attention and you know, favoritism might look
like on the outside and all the parents on the
sideline are cool and chummy and their elbow and they're
high fiving when people score. But if something happens and

(01:19:18):
your kid either gets too much shine or they leave
the team, or something happens, there is a visceral evilness.
There is a guttural evilness, if that's the word, that
you feel when all year they wear your best buzz

(01:19:38):
they ask you to come to the pop belly in
between games and they want to take your kids to
the pool on the weekend, and you're like, I don't
know if I trust you. Remick like that is like
the that's the feeling I felt from him. It's just
a conveniently charming and nice person until you have something

(01:19:58):
they want and then it. He doesn't just go from
nice to oh he's a little stand offish. It goes
from nice to Dracula to evil to like, I will
kill you because you're taking a spot or you're taking
something that I have. I didn't. I saw right through
all that charming bullshit. That shit was not cool to me,

(01:20:19):
Like it just it even makes me laugh a little bit.
I was like, I know, like, I know this guy.
This is the guy on If you work in DC
and you're on the Metro and you're in somebody's way,
they're gonna let you go. But if you're the last
spot and someone's both trying to get them the train,
they're gonna throw you on a train and kill you.
You know, so you can't get their spot, they're gonna

(01:20:40):
cut you off in traffic and pull their gun out
the window to let you know that they have something
with them. Right. So, yeah, he was a good villain
in the movie, but his charm didn't move me.

Speaker 5 (01:20:52):
He is not an anti here. People keep saying, oh,
he's an anti here. He meant, well, no, he didn't.
He was kind of he was literally killed, Like what
part of he was killing people? Don't you it's anti heroic.
He wasn't killing clan members right.

Speaker 1 (01:21:06):
Well, he did kill two, but you know not, that's
because he needed a place. Oh, Karen, what about your
little song? I I knew that meant something when I
was listening to it, I was like, this means something.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
I got looked this up afterwards, Karen, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
I'm sorry for me. The way it started off, it
let me know that.

Speaker 6 (01:21:33):
He was running away from somebody was trying to kill him.
And in my mind, I was like, oh, if they
were trying to kill him, it is a reason why
they were trying to kill him. It's like they knew
something that other people did not know.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
And he was on fire.

Speaker 3 (01:21:50):
Yes, he was burning. They didn't seem to have torches
or flame arrows.

Speaker 6 (01:21:56):
He was on fire, yes, And for me, it's one
of those things where he was morphing into whatever that
person needed so that he can trick them. And I
think so many people fail for the morphing. If it
was about black liberation, he was tightening you by bat.

(01:22:17):
It was about that krew Klaus Klan. He was telling
you about that. I'm pretty sure he was race.

Speaker 5 (01:22:21):
He spoke her literal language.

Speaker 6 (01:22:23):
Yes, I'm pretty sure he probably killed a Native American.
He was talking to them too till somebody was like, bitch,
what you're doing over here? And so you know, it's
one of those things where he will do whatever it
takes to use you, because the thing is he wants
whatever you have. And the thing about Sammy was that
because of who he was, and he could see things

(01:22:45):
on a supernatural level, and Sammy sung on a supernatural level.
And that's why a lot of times people didn't understand,
like why was the building burning?

Speaker 3 (01:22:54):
That's because he.

Speaker 6 (01:22:55):
Was seeing something on the outside that none of them
could actually see.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
He saw, he saw fire, he saw warmth, he saw
a thing he wanted for himself, yes, and selfish, and
so he.

Speaker 5 (01:23:07):
Was out a connection to the ancestors that Sammy was
able to bring.

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
He was not thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
He wasn't thinking I want to free these people when
you saw that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:15):
No, that that that was.

Speaker 5 (01:23:17):
I mean, it's also interesting because sorry, just quickly the
way when they were trying to get into the juke
joint and they were like, we want to play for you,
they were playing the most how does what you do
match with what you're hearing? Like why would we let
you in? To do that, and it just didn't cross
their mind, not they didn't cross his mind, but like

(01:23:37):
he should have been let in. There's no reason why,
I asked nicely, I also singing a song you should
let me in, and the sense of entitlement and then
like the the anger that came with being denied what
you feel entitled to, I thought was very clear.

Speaker 6 (01:23:54):
I Karen sorry, yes, And also I say that the
biggest reason why he went is Sammy, because he recognize
Sammy's gift. And with Sammy's gift, he wouldn't have had
them two white people playing the bandos behind him. He'd
ha had Sammy out there singing yes, and.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
They probably would have been tricked and let him in.
And so at the end of the day, just.

Speaker 6 (01:24:18):
To use people because at the end of the day,
his cult, because he was the leader quote unquote, everybody
was a part of the cult.

Speaker 3 (01:24:25):
And they all had that connection.

Speaker 6 (01:24:27):
And the connection was so deep that if he got stabbed,
they felt it. And so that's how connected they were.
I think people underestimated how connected he was to them
and how if he bit you, all of a sudden,
he could speak your language, he knew your memory, like
like like so, so it was a deeper thing. And
so because he understood that, he was like, Oh, if
I can get Sammy, I can go out out here

(01:24:50):
because I'm already down south where a bunch of niggas
is anyway, I'll just right right.

Speaker 3 (01:24:55):
I already got the.

Speaker 1 (01:24:56):
Klan here and it ain't nothing but them out here.
Plus I get the nigga like.

Speaker 6 (01:25:00):
It was one of the things. I think his whole
thing was like I can actually get to the point
where I can take.

Speaker 3 (01:25:04):
Over more and gain more and getting.

Speaker 1 (01:25:07):
I don't Yeah, I'm sorry, did you have more before
I go?

Speaker 4 (01:25:11):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
But just I agree with you. I wrote down some
words wh y'all were talking. Gluttonist was one of the
words he that was a gluttony about him that felt
to me like the gluttony of like white supremacy, like
historically over over the earth. Yeah, it's never enough, it's
never happy enough. It's coming to take your ship. It's
cos we don't have equals. We have people that we

(01:25:36):
uh dictate to. And that's how those people in the
group were. They were under his throat when they were
dancing a jig. I know people, some people were entertaining
like this is a fun song or whatever scene.

Speaker 3 (01:25:47):
I didn't see it as a party.

Speaker 1 (01:25:49):
I saw it as this is how complete his control
is over these people, because those motherfuckers didn't know know
Irish jig.

Speaker 3 (01:25:56):
They didn't yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
There was no meaning of him teaching them, like he
was making them do that with their bodies, and they
had no choice but to be excited about it.

Speaker 5 (01:26:06):
Later on watching him, he was the center, right.

Speaker 1 (01:26:10):
And later on we do see that, like when they're
not under his stalls, they do have their own motivations
and it wasn't his, so clearly it was coming from him,
you know, like he you know in other movies, vampirism
is the like it makes you into this thing of
like and I have to eat.

Speaker 5 (01:26:28):
Everything because Mary went straight to Stack because that's what
he wanted, right, and then Smoke was able to earth.
Stack was didn't bite Smoke right because oh my god, right, it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:44):
Was well, you know, I'll do my thing a little bit.
He Yeah, I love that you brought up. You know,
he's conniving. He has no morals, He absorbs knowledge. He
wants this black black girl. But the other thing I noticed,
he's the clan either way, So like the clan for
white people was like, hey, y'all, hear y'all, y'all love whites.

(01:27:07):
I'm almost smoking on fire. Let me in, you know,
like big bad wolf.

Speaker 2 (01:27:11):
Just let me on in.

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
And they let him in just out of pure because
white people, those poor white Southerners saw those indigenous people
and they were more afraid of the other that they
let the wolf inside.

Speaker 3 (01:27:24):
The hen house.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
Shout out today would have voted for him to be president.

Speaker 3 (01:27:27):
Yeah, shout out to them would be like, did you
let him in your house? God bless you?

Speaker 1 (01:27:31):
Hi?

Speaker 3 (01:27:31):
Boys? Hop on the horse be handing off midnight? Indigenous
folks never seen them people again?

Speaker 4 (01:27:36):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:27:37):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:27:38):
That was another thing I loved about this movie is
how much Lord they didn't explain. They just put us
in the middle of stuff. If you're smart, you understand.
If you're dumb, you still understand. You do understand. Those
indigenous people said, all right, that's your life. White people
is getting dark.

Speaker 5 (01:27:51):
Byse okay, you luck with that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
Everybody's like, what I would love a spin off show
about what they I'm like, we don't need to know
what happened before we knowed he's on fire and running
and they were chasing him and was like, fuck it,
he ain't coming back our way by nice, enjoy your
lives at too many.

Speaker 5 (01:28:11):
We don't need to know what they had for dinner
before they set out on the We don't need any
of that.

Speaker 3 (01:28:15):
We're good.

Speaker 5 (01:28:16):
And that was the beauty of his ability to storytelling
that way. Like it's just he trusts his audience. He's like,
I'm showing you what you need to know. I'm telling
you what you need to know. Trust me the rest
of it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
I'll say it like because I know you said you
wouldn't just like Kendrick, Like Kendrick, Kendrick trust that his
fans will go and find that fourth on Tandra without him,
Like he never does a line in those ooz Pa
surprise or whatever the fuck, Like he just said some
ship and you'd be like, I think, huh, I feel
like it could mean more than you know what. Actually,

(01:28:51):
damn it means seven things like that. That's how he
does it. And Coogler was doing this.

Speaker 4 (01:28:57):
It was something else he said ron that when Remick
was doing the Irish jig right and then all the
people around him were doing the jig. That was the
initial moment where I was like, oh, he's It reminded
me not really, but he's eminem right like he It

(01:29:18):
gave me an eminem analogy in that moment. But he
was doing okay. So when they did the flashback scene,
I'm sure we're gonna talk about this later, but one
of the flashback and forward of the music, when Sammy
was singing in all the different genres, right, they were
super imposing the Irish jig over all of the music, right,
and his music didn't change. They were still jigging it

(01:29:41):
out there, but it was overlayered with the black music.
And then all the black people started doing the jig
and it was just like such a perfect culture vulture
moment of how like white the industry, but it's not
just music industry, it's all of culture and art will

(01:30:02):
take like bits and pieces of black art, put their
face on it. It becomes popular and then other black
people are like, oh, that's lit because look how popular
it is.

Speaker 1 (01:30:15):
Also, he's not of the culture at that point because
he hasn't absorbed Sammy and uh delar Lindo's character, like
because if he, you know, he might could have, I
wouldn't have put it pasting to play that ship to
get in the club, even though I think what we
heard with that jig, that's his nok. If you buck,
you know what I'm saying, that was his because like

(01:30:36):
the way Michael B. Jordans' character is like, I'm like,
it's if you I'm surprised this hasn't happened on Twitter.
But if you just take out that jig and put
in like some down South krank music, that's the vibe
of the fucking thing in there, you know, Tey that
club if you buk his Irish answer, right, Tedda Drew.

(01:31:00):
I also love that his Irish ancestry gave him a
way into because what people mistruck for empathy, which, as
Bossy pointed out, is not. He doesn't really understand blackness.
He's a pitch man.

Speaker 2 (01:31:12):
He's a hit He's the guy that hits on every
woman in the club. That's what he is.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
He doesn't take no for an answer, and I thought
this was obvious in how he talked to Grace, because
he talks to her in her own language.

Speaker 2 (01:31:26):
First he uses the husband, then he talks to.

Speaker 1 (01:31:28):
Her in her own language, tells her he'll eat her pussy,
then says I'm gonna kill your kid, and people were like,
see he was really for black liberation.

Speaker 2 (01:31:37):
I'm like, are you fucking dumb?

Speaker 6 (01:31:40):
He was like he was like whoever lets me in
and not ging funny. It was like, oh, you're the
weakest link.

Speaker 1 (01:31:46):
Yeah, however he can get in, he's gonna get in,
whether it's to save your child, whether it's to the
because you still think you can be a vampire, pro
black one. Whatever he gets. But the second you're you're
he bites you. You're just in his throat. There's no
fucking you anymore. You're just a set of iran It's

(01:32:07):
almost like you know social media and how they like
take everybody's information or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:32:11):
You're just a set of data to him.

Speaker 1 (01:32:13):
It's like, if this data helps me to sell or
get some more shit, that's what you're good for.

Speaker 2 (01:32:19):
The cultural apprehension of black.

Speaker 1 (01:32:20):
People's the only thing that was keeping on the outside,
because that's really what it was like. He was not
threatening when he showed up at that door, other than
the threat of just general whiteness and black people being like, Nope,
somebody's gonna step on your shoe. Like whiteness is scary enough.
You don't gotta be a vampire. You just can't come in.

Speaker 3 (01:32:39):
Like it was like, what the fuck are you doing
out here?

Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
Y'all are the vampire as far as we're concerned. All right,
smoking stack, let's go around. I forget the order, but
carry you go first, and then we'll go Mike and
then BOSSI. I love the fact that they did they
research on twins and like they actually I was listening
they actually covered twins, and they was like they knew twins.

Speaker 3 (01:33:05):
And you know, they did research on twins.

Speaker 6 (01:33:07):
They you know, some people on the set were twins,
and so you know, they would ask them things like
why y'all side by side, and they was like, it's
not for us, it's for y'all because the second we're
not together no more, everybody gets fucking confused, like what's happening?

Speaker 3 (01:33:23):
What's going on?

Speaker 1 (01:33:24):
Like like like like everybody else just don't know what
to do when they're not together.

Speaker 5 (01:33:28):
And so I'm standing in the yes in the same
position or like back to back of like close in
proximity to each other, and I was like, I would
have never thought about that.

Speaker 6 (01:33:38):
And you know, they was talking about growing up in
the hood and how they was nobody one or two
sets of twins and how they would respond to each
other and how a lot of times they language just
the same and they talked the same, because particularly if
they grew up together, you're not going to see a
big difference unless you get them alone, one on one.
And so that was a big thing on why their
partners were different, because they literally.

Speaker 3 (01:33:59):
Got two the from people, you know what I'm saying.
But together they look identical that you know, they're the same.

Speaker 6 (01:34:05):
But when they're separate, that's when you got to quote
unquote see the real them, if that makes sense.

Speaker 5 (01:34:10):
And their partners made sense once you got to know them.
Their partners made perfect sense, right of course.

Speaker 6 (01:34:16):
And so I actually really love and I appreciate them
doing their homework on it and having an understanding of
that relationship. They would have the same casus, they would
talk alike, you know, and things like that, like they
would kind of have the same appearance and things that
they would have a deep love for each other, you know,
because they literally have spent their whole lives together and

(01:34:38):
so you know, it's unlike any other bond. So I
really do appreciate that. And also my biggest thing we
was talking about Michael B. Jordan before shout out to
him for literally playing two different parts like that is
a very very hard thing to do.

Speaker 3 (01:34:54):
And so that shows you.

Speaker 6 (01:34:56):
How talented and how dedicated he was, because it's just
was just amazing to see because if you did not know,
you would really think he had a twin, like like
if you.

Speaker 3 (01:35:06):
If you were like, oh, that's actually his twin, but
but it's actually the same person.

Speaker 1 (01:35:11):
Probably the Marvel special effects that Ryan Coogler got cool
with or some ship that shit did my brain stopped
thinking of them. As to Michael B Jordan's, yes, really
the most immediate it was.

Speaker 4 (01:35:22):
Crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:35:24):
I turned this is another thing that I never do.
I turned my phone completely off and put it in
my bag. I never do that. And I was like,
I need a Google because I wasn't Michael B Jordan's
have a twin? Did I'm not right?

Speaker 3 (01:35:37):
Did I Misa right?

Speaker 4 (01:35:39):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:35:39):
It felt it felt.

Speaker 5 (01:35:40):
Not even that I thought he'd be acting, but I
thought like maybe they did a thing, a Marvel thing
where they put his face on his actual brother's you know,
head or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:35:50):
The conspiracy that isn't true, but that I was prone
to believe was that one of them Towins was supposed
to be a completely different actor. I was like, Okay,
that must maybe Jonathan Major's fucked up so bad. They
were like, Michael both yeah, Like that's how. That's how
good the twin thing was, because you know, you can
be fraternal twins and not you don't have to look identical, right,

(01:36:13):
But I was like, that's how, but that's how good
his performance was. I was like, Oh, they must have
just planned for this to be two different people, because
they're two different people.

Speaker 3 (01:36:21):
Like they interacted with each other like damn.

Speaker 2 (01:36:23):
Yeah, Mike, I think it's you.

Speaker 5 (01:36:24):
Yeah, I mean I think there.

Speaker 4 (01:36:28):
I think their characters go ahead by see what No, no, no,
I think I think their characters were just profound. There
was something, Karen that you mentioned about if you notice
whenever they were in a scene together and if everybody
knows twins in real life, there was something about like
how they were positioned that were like they had each

(01:36:49):
other's backs, like they were like either looking over each
other's shoulders, they were like positioned always in a way
where that they were looking out for each other. Phenomenal.
It was like small stuff. I was trying to see.
I might have been doing too much in the movie.
I was trying to see, like sometimes twins are like
one of his right handed one his left handed. Could

(01:37:11):
you see that. I couldn't. I couldn't pick it up.

Speaker 5 (01:37:14):
I was definitely looking for that too.

Speaker 4 (01:37:16):
I was looking for that. Yeah. I just loved the
fullness of each of their characters, you know, just with
with black men in movies, and they're you know, ones
playing a villain role. They're both kind of like have
villain tendencies, you know, throughout in terms of you know,
trying to you know, find money, and they're you know,

(01:37:37):
trying to get this juke joint going. And there's like
not perfect aspects, imperfect aspects of their character, but they
were all still like they felt like cousins to the viewer, right.

Speaker 1 (01:37:50):
I never thought Sammy was in danger, even when him
and Sammy when smoking, Sammy got into it at the
club and he pulled a gun on him.

Speaker 3 (01:37:57):
I was like, he would never, right, because I was
I was, Yeah, I was.

Speaker 1 (01:38:02):
Like, I'm like Ryan, Ryan, you could turn the dramatic
music down nothing, there's no suspicion, that's not.

Speaker 3 (01:38:09):
That love is too deep.

Speaker 1 (01:38:10):
Yeah, I was gonna say, oh, go ahead, no, no, no,
go ahead, finished.

Speaker 4 (01:38:15):
The one thing I was wondering about that I kind
of missed and I saw people talking about it. I
was like, what happened the connection in Chicago? I know,
like al Capone was in Chicago. Did they mention that
because I didn't miss they?

Speaker 2 (01:38:28):
Yeah, they mentioned that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:29):
I think actually it was Mary who mentioned that they
had robbed they got that liquor from the robbery in
Chicago that everybody like had heard about through the grape vine.
It's clearly like y'all worked for both gangs. Y'all, y'all
robbed both gangs.

Speaker 2 (01:38:45):
I forget what they took from the Irish mob, but like,
y'all robbed both games.

Speaker 1 (01:38:50):
The Irish Yes there, Yeah, so that was like you
She's like, you stole both and then y'all came back
down here to basically like run shit and oh I
know what I was gonna say, and we'll go to
buy Yeah it is. When you're already illegal, why not

(01:39:10):
be a gangster? Like that's why there's no moral judgment
on them from the community. Really like like like this
it's necessitated. You don't if there's not someone willing to
break the law, you don't get a juke joint if
there's not someone willing to like fight the Klan, you
don't get to have shit.

Speaker 2 (01:39:28):
You just go be sharecroppers when.

Speaker 1 (01:39:30):
They're paying you in dollars that are not currency outside
of black the black community in that area.

Speaker 2 (01:39:37):
Then go steal some wine and some.

Speaker 1 (01:39:39):
Liquor at go fucking host your own party like that.
That's why I never felt like the film judged them.
I never felt like Sammy judged them. The only person
that would have judged them, obviously would be Sammy's dad.
And that's more of a religious thing than a you know,
a black thing to me, bossy, your turn ye.

Speaker 5 (01:39:57):
And just on that point, the care that Smoke and
Stack took with Sammy was not the same care that
his father took, because had Sammy showed up at the
juke joint bloody and torn up, they wouldn't have like
tried to they would have they would have gone to him,

(01:40:17):
and they would they would have tried to take care
of him. His father never left the pulpit trying to
like to his own child after his child came broken
and bruised towards him. But the thing with Smoking Stack
too is that after when we first the same way
with twins. When you first see them, you think, oh,
they're identical, they do everything the same, their cookie or whatever.

(01:40:40):
But then the more time you spent with them, the
more you're like, oh, he's a hot heead Oh he's
the one that calms him down. Oh he does this,
he does that. One thing about twins too, is they
take the who's older thing very seriously, like I am
five minutes older, I am your older brother, and I

(01:41:01):
will treat you like you are ten years younger than me, right,
and so to see to see Oh my god. Ryan
Coogler on the Met on the Met carpet last night
said that Stack does Smoke's hair, and people had picked

(01:41:23):
up that I think that Stack rolls the cigarettes because
what's his name, Smoke doesn't have a steady Like there's
certain things that after you've met them for a while
and see that Mary makes sense for Stack and Nannie
makes sense for Smoke, you go back and like, oh,
I see how the way that he moved this. He's

(01:41:44):
more concerned with this aspect of the business than that
aspect of the business. And Michael B. Jordan's ability to
have the subtleties and the nuances of a relationship like
that was really really amazing, and I don't want to
keep on bringing up Kendrick. But in the Heart part six,

(01:42:06):
when he says, grinding with my brothers, it was us
against the world, no one above us. Bless our heart.
That's I kept hearing her reincarnated. I heard the Heart
part six, like I kept hearing all these different songs,
but like that's that's what I got from it, Like
they were, they were two separate people. And when I

(01:42:27):
think I started crying now, I cried a lot, but
I start when when when when Smoke was holding Stack
and Stack was dying, watching Michael B. Jordan hold himself
while he's dying. I was just sitting here, like.

Speaker 3 (01:42:45):
My brain nomina something because obvious.

Speaker 5 (01:42:51):
Every single category should have everybody all.

Speaker 1 (01:42:55):
That, because I I believe this nigga was holding himself
watching him self die.

Speaker 4 (01:43:01):
And I actually even thought about it, think about it.

Speaker 3 (01:43:05):
But it hit me.

Speaker 1 (01:43:06):
It hit me different because in that moment, I'm thinking
he's watching his own face die, you know what I mean.
Like I'm like not even like as a character and
an actor, Like I'm just like, God, damn, this would
fuck someone up so bad.

Speaker 3 (01:43:23):
That's why he wasn't trying to hit her. When she
was talking, he was like, I don't I.

Speaker 1 (01:43:26):
Don't care any innately understood there was no convincing him
of putting that body outside, so she did the next
best thing to save his life.

Speaker 5 (01:43:37):
Which is what Annie. Mary would never talk about that,
but you know what what I thought of. They loved
each other so much, Smoking Stack And at the end
when when when Stack says, it was the best day
of my life, it was the last time I saw
the sun. It was the last time I saw my brother.
You know how vampires can't see their own reflect He

(01:44:01):
can't even see his brother in his face, like his
brother is gone.

Speaker 1 (01:44:04):
God, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:44:09):
Karen, go ahead, I'm sorry.

Speaker 6 (01:44:10):
And something else when uh, I forgot which one was
talking to Sammy and they was talking about their dad
and how abusive.

Speaker 3 (01:44:18):
That their dad.

Speaker 6 (01:44:21):
Uh And he was like, yeah, my brother killed him.
I was like, that makes sense to why he saved
his why he didn't kill him and.

Speaker 3 (01:44:28):
Smoke killed the father to save Stack Stack.

Speaker 1 (01:44:33):
Clearly to us on screen, Stack reads as the crazy
wild card brother. But it's Smoke that just Smoke, the
one that that's gonna get it done.

Speaker 5 (01:44:42):
Like like they could kill his mother when he shot people? Right,
did Stack ever shoot anybody?

Speaker 4 (01:44:49):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:44:51):
I don't think Yeah, I don't think he did.

Speaker 5 (01:44:55):
The smoke ship. I think this swap was the only
one who shot anybody between the two of them.

Speaker 3 (01:45:00):
Damn, I think you're right. Yeah he shot them to
because he too. Yeah, he shot them to and he
shot them too.

Speaker 2 (01:45:06):
He got Ship done like he was.

Speaker 1 (01:45:09):
But it's but also that protective vein explains why he
couldn't kill Stack right, like he couldn't. He just fucking
It's like I would have saved your life back then,
just to end it as I'm obviously was saving you
from our father's abuse, and now I will be your killer.

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
I can't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:45:27):
And I love the way they cut away and then
reveal that later because they got me like I didn't
see it, but in my mind I had forgotten about
that moment.

Speaker 2 (01:45:35):
I was like, damn, everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:45:37):
God, this is such a right. And then the second
you see Stack come up and he's telling.

Speaker 1 (01:45:42):
The story, you're like, like, the second I saw him
in the coach, I went, oh, because he couldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:45:46):
He couldn't kill his brother. That's fucking ridiculous.

Speaker 5 (01:45:50):
But when he said that smoke said don't touch Sammy,
and he just didn't, like yeah, like a like a
like a murderous thing empire. The connection was that strong.
It's like my brother said, not to my big brother said.

Speaker 1 (01:46:05):
That's when that's when I four hundred percent sure knew
Remick was evil, Like it wasn't a it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:46:13):
Vampires are evil.

Speaker 1 (01:46:15):
That he didn't have to do any of this ship
Stack probably had converted another motherfucker the whole time, because
he's like, look, I'm now a mortal or whatever the fuck,
and I'm and I promised I wasn't gonna touch my my,
my cousin.

Speaker 2 (01:46:29):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:29):
I do want to let him know we out here,
and he and honestly he offered them the same ship
like if you won't, he's like, I'm good. It's like
all right, damn fam I love that they both had
to vocally confess their love different ways, different characters. But
you know, Ryan Coogler is one of those dudes that
one of the things I resonate with his work is
that he thinks about like women, black women equal like

(01:46:54):
he thinks about it. He's not a stumble into some shit.
Got yeah, like like pan.

Speaker 3 (01:47:00):
Of women's have purpose.

Speaker 1 (01:47:01):
The reason Black Panther One hit so hard to me
is that the whole plot of the movie is like.

Speaker 2 (01:47:08):
Listen to the black people, listen to black women.

Speaker 1 (01:47:10):
The key is right the whole time, Sure is right,
is right and so, and that's a you know, through
up the core of his movies, that is a recurring theme,
you know, so to see like them like the obviously
it means something that they was even putsy in the
twenties or whatever the fuck Like obviously that means something.
But more importantly than that, it was like how they
were listening and how they had to come clean cause

(01:47:33):
like Mary is not any on any level as.

Speaker 3 (01:47:37):
Far as that, but Mary is.

Speaker 1 (01:47:39):
I believe Dack loves Mary, and I believe him when
he's like when he's cold towards her, you know, it's
because he thinks it's gonna protect her.

Speaker 3 (01:47:48):
Yes, at no point did I think like because he
bitches ain't shit.

Speaker 1 (01:47:51):
I'm it was like I was just waiting for him
to have his moment or like god damn it, yes,
you know I love you, but you cannot be safe
with again the nigga from the south.

Speaker 5 (01:48:01):
Right, and you can't be you're trying to be a
white woman and you can't be seen. They'll kill me
and you right, and.

Speaker 1 (01:48:10):
You have like there's this it's like the kid that's
gonna make it out the hood. It's fucked up, but
it is what it is. You have the chance to
go be white. Yes, there's nothing safer for you in
America than being white. There's nothing I can provide you.
If I have to make you think, I hate you
for you to go make that choice. You should go

(01:48:30):
make that choice. And in her own like kind of
selfish white and womanish ways, she's like, fuck that choice.
I don't value my safety if it's not with you.
I'll burn everything down just so we can be together,
which kind of speaks to her own privilege.

Speaker 2 (01:48:46):
But you know the core of her character as well.

Speaker 5 (01:48:49):
And I think that I think that Stack bit Annie
because he thinks he thought that if Annie turns, then
then Smoke would get would be more willing to turn,
and the four of them could together forever.

Speaker 4 (01:49:01):
Yes, But.

Speaker 5 (01:49:03):
Annie's will was so let me ask you a question.
This is something that I that I thought of. I
told you that because Rod asked me to do this,
and I was like, okay, whatever I went to see it,
and I was like, I can't do it because I
was crying for hours after. I cannot do it. I
have I didn't get anything from it because I'm too emotional.
I was literally taking a walk and I stopped dead

(01:49:27):
in my tracks because a million like things just kept
fall like all this symbolism and all this like like,
oh my god, when he did this? Did he mean that?
But one of something that I thought of, And I
want y'all to to let me know if you, if
you with the with the understand that this was a
layered story. I was trying to understand why Smoke did

(01:49:51):
what he did.

Speaker 4 (01:49:51):
At the end.

Speaker 5 (01:49:52):
The obvious answer is he lost the love of his life,
he lost his brother. There's nothing left for him to
live for obvious, absolutely for sure. But what I thought
was also one of the other layers couple. But one
of them was something that Remick said got to both
him and Sammy, not enough for him to join him,

(01:50:15):
but in a sense that there will never know freedom.
They're never going to there's never going to be a
point in our black ass life where these people will
leave us alone. It won't always be a vampire, It'll
be the Klan. It'll be some like random ass racist whatever.
So my thought was he knew that this was a

(01:50:37):
is it called a dummy mission when you know you're
gonna die but you do then Yeah, So it was
one of him and a bunch of klansmen. He knew
that he was going to die at some point. But
for me, he was saying, I can't stop the world
from terrorizing black people, but I can stop these specific

(01:50:58):
particular racist white people from doing any damage to the
people around to the black people around us right or
around here. I'm also willing to die because my wife
is gone, my child, my daughter is gone. He could
have hopped on in the car with Sammy and drove
to whatever. But then the whole Chicago nothing but plantation

(01:51:23):
with skyscrapers. It could get so much worse for his bloodline.
Does he want to bring another family, another child, Does
he want like a generation a bloodline of of of
of of children and children's children who have to battle
vampires and all shape forms and sizes, or does he

(01:51:46):
just like, this is my decision as a human here,
it ends here. Nobody else is going to have to
go through this. That's what I thought.

Speaker 4 (01:51:54):
What else?

Speaker 2 (01:51:55):
So There's a couple of things there.

Speaker 1 (01:51:57):
The first thing I want to say is I knew
you was do this uh thing.

Speaker 2 (01:52:02):
This is Mike. You can learn a lot from me.

Speaker 1 (01:52:05):
I wasn't gonna try to like convince her or fix
it or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:52:08):
I know bossy well enough. She just needs some time.

Speaker 1 (01:52:11):
She's like, even even when she was like, I don't
think I'm gonna see it, I never told her to
go see it. I never was like, you gotta go
see it. I was like, you're gonna have to go
see it because you are you.

Speaker 4 (01:52:21):
I'm just gonna wait it out.

Speaker 1 (01:52:23):
You're you are who you have always been, and you
cannot not see this. And the experience I had was
so beautiful. I it's it's like they made a movie
for you. Why, Like, I'm sure a hundred people have
told you to go see it, and you've told them
politely no, why.

Speaker 2 (01:52:40):
I don't want to be the ninetieth or the one
hundred of one. So what That's the other thing.

Speaker 1 (01:52:44):
The second thing is she does see it and she's like,
and that's when I'm like, you want to do the thing,
watch it out there and review it, and she goes,
I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:52:55):
I can't even stop crying or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:52:57):
I'm like, all right, understood, because it's she's not gonna
stop thinking about it. It's too beautiful of anything. That's
why she's gonna want to talk about it. She can't
stop crying. Who the fuck don't want to talk about
something that made them feel like that?

Speaker 3 (01:53:10):
You're gonna be talking about that forever.

Speaker 2 (01:53:12):
I believe.

Speaker 1 (01:53:13):
During the beginning of like the Kendrick Beef, it was
like something like, I don't I can't just see us
talking about this right, I'm like, this is gonna be
our life.

Speaker 2 (01:53:20):
I've been waiting on.

Speaker 5 (01:53:23):
Personality after the after the the Kendrick Beef was my
personality for a year. Is my new personality? Somebody needs
to do something next year.

Speaker 1 (01:53:31):
To listen, you come along way from Bruno mars now
to the things now to the things you were bringing up.
I think Stack does believe, and he believed in all
the Annie spiritual stuff the whole time. He didn't want
to believe in it, obviously, but he believed in it,
and that when he took off that that charm.

Speaker 3 (01:53:53):
That's I wrote that down.

Speaker 2 (01:53:55):
Yes, I said, he's going to be with Annie.

Speaker 3 (01:53:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:53:57):
I was like, that was his decision to die at
thateriod of time because his brother couldn't bite him because
of that necklace.

Speaker 1 (01:54:05):
Yeah, and I think he understood, like his faith was
not in her religion or whatever, because I don't think
he knows all the practices his faith was in Annie.

Speaker 3 (01:54:16):
Like, I believe in you.

Speaker 1 (01:54:18):
If you believe in this, then I believe in you
believing in this, and it had he had just gone
through two things that would make him feel a way,
which is one, vampires exist.

Speaker 2 (01:54:32):
That's a real fucking thing.

Speaker 1 (01:54:34):
So who would have thought about Who would have thunk
that the day before? So maybe there's some elician afterlife,
phil where I get to go live with my wife
and my dead baby.

Speaker 3 (01:54:44):
Like, why the fuck would I not believe.

Speaker 5 (01:54:46):
That he chose He chose that heaven right opposed to
that Sammy's father is trying to give him the forever
that was trying to give up. My question is what
happened in the morning when the town woke up.

Speaker 3 (01:54:59):
Yeah, well, the klan woke up and they went to go.

Speaker 5 (01:55:02):
Burn the onquel. I want to know.

Speaker 1 (01:55:04):
Yeah, the klan woke up first and then they then
everybody else woke up because the clan apparently earlier Bread
earlier rise.

Speaker 3 (01:55:12):
But uh, it was like, so you.

Speaker 1 (01:55:15):
Have the vampire thing, so now you there's things beyond
human understanding that he now has his idea of. And
then the second thing is the Klan. Whiteness won't stop.
So like that town, well, he told Sammy to go
and be safe. I feel like he knows it's just
a matter of time for that shit too, like Whiteness

(01:55:35):
is coming for all black joy.

Speaker 2 (01:55:37):
And happiness and and and and.

Speaker 1 (01:55:40):
Commerce and everything, and he just decided, like I'm checking
out here, I'm taking as mean as him out with
me as I can, and then I'm off to the afterlife.

Speaker 3 (01:55:49):
So I those are the reasons I felt that.

Speaker 5 (01:55:51):
He did it.

Speaker 1 (01:55:52):
Uh, And then Karen and Mike, you guys can, uh
can if you have different reasons, and then if not,
we'll move to the next character.

Speaker 3 (01:55:58):
Oh all right, the same. I agree.

Speaker 6 (01:56:03):
I think the second he took off that necklace, I
think that that was his decision that he no longer
wanted to be there. And it's also was that thing
where he knew if they showed up, they were going
to kill them like like, and I think that because
Remick had kind of told them, hey, they coming in
the morning, so he already knew, which caught them by

(01:56:25):
surprise when they hit their front door and they people
went coming out stebbing it and drunking all that stuff.
And the time that they did it was club letout times. Yes,
like they were coming to murder them in that building.

Speaker 2 (01:56:38):
They weren't like waiting until noon the next day, right.

Speaker 6 (01:56:40):
And it's also one of those things to where you
look at it. He had I don't know how much
time he had or if he did it after he
sent Samon back home, but he had guns everywhere, so
he was prepared for the war.

Speaker 3 (01:56:55):
And so I do agree.

Speaker 6 (01:56:58):
I think that he was ready to go, and he
knew that he wouldn't go get no peace, you know,
because technically in his mind he lost his brother because
his brother was was quote unquote no longer human.

Speaker 1 (01:57:11):
Right, you know, and you know, and so his mind
he lost his child and his and his wife. I mean,
he was right, he was ready to go. What was
what's my purpose?

Speaker 4 (01:57:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:57:22):
What about you, Mike?

Speaker 1 (01:57:23):
What did those reasons cover? Why you think he did
what he did?

Speaker 4 (01:57:27):
Same things? The only thing I would add, if it
might have been said already, but I saw it as
him taking control. It was just his opportunity to have
control over his demise, right and and and knowing what
was going to be his afterlife. Uh, and believing when
Annie was telling him that that's the only thing. But
I mean it was let me, did this happen in

(01:57:50):
y'all's theater? Like folks clapped when he shot everybody? The
folks like stand up and applause.

Speaker 3 (01:57:57):
Well, people was.

Speaker 1 (01:57:57):
hYP I don't remember if they stood up and clapp
but I just remember everybody like being hype.

Speaker 4 (01:58:03):
Yeah, it was super hype. And it was a theater.
Like I told you, we were in Florida, so it's
kind of a mixed bag in terms of the theater.
And folks were standing up yelling like it looked like
the Arsenia Hall.

Speaker 3 (01:58:14):
We need a never mind.

Speaker 1 (01:58:15):
America needed a reminder that we all should apply killing
the Klan.

Speaker 2 (01:58:19):
It's sad that we need that, right, but.

Speaker 1 (01:58:21):
We are at a point in America where like a
theater full of people getting a hey guys, these are
bad people always all the time. It felt good because
the scene what makes that seem so fucking amazing to me?
And I've moved this into the next point as well,
I love. It reminds me the role that the Church

(01:58:41):
plays and Slash doesn't play in this film is fucking immaculate.

Speaker 2 (01:58:46):
Like it's not like I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:58:47):
Think it's necessarily shitty on religion, Like I think you
can be a religious person and watch it and enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (01:58:54):
I think.

Speaker 1 (01:58:54):
I actually got to talk to the actor who played
Cornbread the other day on the radio, and he's a
very religious person. He said he almost he wasn't gonna
take the role. But there was something that Coogler put
in the movie, the line from Remick to Sammy where
he says, those words were basically used to given to
my people by the people that conquered my people, and

(01:59:18):
and yet I still can find solace in them and
he and so to him, he was like, yes, like
I do find solace in those words.

Speaker 2 (01:59:27):
It's not ironic to me.

Speaker 1 (01:59:30):
And even though obviously Coogle was also pointing out these
words are used to make people subservient, they're not of
our culture. There, you know, your father's dedicated his life
to this, But when you look at why his father
may have dedicated his life to that, he probably came
from an abusive ass household.

Speaker 5 (01:59:46):
Like you know, like that yeah, like this like that,
that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:59:51):
These choices weren't just like in a vacuum where you know,
we're we're judging with the twenty twenty twenty five standards
of the day, like, well, well why didn't you. It's like,
because they didn't have that many choices, it's gonna be
a preacher.

Speaker 2 (02:00:03):
They maybe they won't kill you.

Speaker 1 (02:00:05):
I don't know, but I love that religion wasn't the
answer in that, Like there was no magical power of
like the hey say the cross, or you say this
prayer and then the vampire go, oh, I can't bite them.

Speaker 2 (02:00:18):
There was no get out of jail free car.

Speaker 1 (02:00:19):
And I love that at the end when the father
is trying to take Sammy get them to drive the guitar,
and like, now that you've been scared, now that you
have you're making a fearful decision, run it to me
in my arms of the Lord. And Sammy ultimately doesn't
make that decision, you know. I yeah, And if anything,
he kind of you know that final scene that to

(02:00:41):
the end of the credits, he's blending the cultures together,
he's bringing the Something's father.

Speaker 2 (02:00:46):
I'm sure would have never let him doing that.

Speaker 4 (02:00:48):
Church.

Speaker 1 (02:00:48):
But he's bringing the blues to the to the to
the to the gospel. And there's something so beautiful about
that because to me, that really symbolizes African American culture
in America, like the creativity, the constraints, the breaking of
those constraints, the melting of genres and all that stuff.
The innovation. Like I didn't get that scene the first

(02:01:10):
time I saw it. I was like, what, Okay, I
guess I stayed after the credits for the same maybe
all the audience needs that because they need their to
feel better or something. And then I thought about that
shit for like two days. It was like, oh my god,
this nigga's a genius. But yeah, the roll of the

(02:01:31):
church Karen Mike Bossi.

Speaker 5 (02:01:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:01:33):
And also when you look at the religious part of
it with Sammy, you realize.

Speaker 1 (02:01:41):
At the oh and feel free to throw any in
there too, since the spirituality, religion, all that stuff.

Speaker 6 (02:01:47):
And not the very very inn How when he gave
them permission to come and see him, how they was
like that new shit is like seeing that original shit,
like like like because in their mind the sound that
had the most soulful feeling that actually moved them to

(02:02:08):
their core was the original stuff that he first did,
and it kind of changed over time because people changing
all that stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:02:14):
But in their mind they was like, that's all.

Speaker 1 (02:02:16):
I You made me wonder if Sammy had used his
gift in that way, since you just made me think
about that, because like if everyone was getting that experience,
like what the vampire saw was was Sammy doing because
once he you said, yeah, he made a note that
you changed the music, Yes he did.

Speaker 2 (02:02:33):
It's not what this is.

Speaker 1 (02:02:35):
It don't hit the saund I want to hear that
shit you used to do you know that spirit?

Speaker 4 (02:02:38):
Did he change it? Or did the white people change right?
The white right?

Speaker 3 (02:02:43):
Yeah, like it really does.

Speaker 2 (02:02:45):
Man, Dad Karen blew my mind.

Speaker 1 (02:02:48):
And I don't know because that stuck out to me
that they specifically was like, no, we want to hear
your old ship. We were like that that original stuff.
That was like that's all I got all your albums though,
but it's nothing like like that first time that it
actually moved my soul anything any spirituality before I moved
to the next people.

Speaker 6 (02:03:08):
The thing I liked about her was that she was
just a part of the community.

Speaker 3 (02:03:12):
She was in an outcast. She was she wasn't the
other you know, they weren't like this.

Speaker 5 (02:03:21):
They trusted her.

Speaker 3 (02:03:22):
Yeah, that was like, this is just what she does.

Speaker 2 (02:03:26):
And she even took the black money.

Speaker 3 (02:03:28):
Yes, and and she was like it's okay, you know that.

Speaker 6 (02:03:33):
And so I think that a lot of the people
in the community have been protected by.

Speaker 3 (02:03:37):
Her and and like the things that she has done.

Speaker 6 (02:03:40):
So for a lot of them, even even the people
that with the church and religious that go, I get it.
Whatever this is, it has some type of power behind it,
if that makes sense. So they believed in that, and
and from that they kind of in some people's mind
they connected to that to some power to God, which
actually for them made it.

Speaker 3 (02:03:59):
Kind of okay for her to be around.

Speaker 6 (02:04:01):
I don't know if that makes sense, Like like like
that's how a lot of them rationalized it out. Uh,
particularly particularly in a time where where white people are
trying to kill you.

Speaker 3 (02:04:10):
Anything it takes.

Speaker 6 (02:04:11):
To prevent them from coming up here and fucking everything
and everybody up, Like if it takes me getting a
thing from you to put.

Speaker 1 (02:04:18):
In my house, or the white man won't come in
here and rape me girl, whatever it takes.

Speaker 3 (02:04:22):
And so you know, you have to think about the time.

Speaker 6 (02:04:25):
They was in and and and where they were and
the things around them, to the fact that I really
really liked the fact that she wasn't frowned upon, even
if you did not understand what she was doing. Yes,
and that's and and that's the thing, and they allowed
her just to be all right.

Speaker 2 (02:04:45):
I forget who I said was next, Mike.

Speaker 4 (02:04:48):
I think I think he said, like the the two
things I wanted to add on to what Karen was
saying is one my my grandmother's Cuban and she was
definitely uh. I don't know. I don't know what it
was called when I was a child, but I saw
her do things and that scene when she was in

(02:05:08):
her house and she was like preparing, she got stuff together,
should I put her hair? I vividly remember my grandmother
doing stuff like that and like being like getting ready
to do something magical is how it looked to me
as a child. And I remember stories of my mom
telling me in Cuba how the woman in the community

(02:05:30):
would be sought after if people were in pain, if
people needed healing, if people wanted something good or bad
to happen to somebody else they knew. And my grandmother
was one of those people. So I saw my grandmother
in that character, Nanny's character. The other thing too, is
and I don't know, I don't know if I've heard
this anywhere because I purposely haven't really listened to a

(02:05:51):
lot of commentary before or after I saw the movie.
But the Sammy's character wasn't y'all tell me if I'm
I don't know my Bible the way I should, the
way I used to. But the death was the angel
of the Lord at one point, right, It wasn't the
angel of music.

Speaker 2 (02:06:11):
He got cast out.

Speaker 4 (02:06:13):
He got cast out the music ministry. And I think that,
of course there's a connection to what Sammy's abilities were,
and that's what the vampires were sought after, right. And
I couldn't help but think about all of the great
singers in our lifetime that we've seen have this battle

(02:06:35):
between church and popular music.

Speaker 3 (02:06:40):
That's how they used to find us. Like like, I'm
like like like like it's.

Speaker 6 (02:06:43):
Kind of moved away from that, but that's how they
used to find us.

Speaker 3 (02:06:47):
They used to actually just go to the churches and
just find us and pluck us out.

Speaker 5 (02:06:52):
I have a theory on that, always thought about that
I've never expressed.

Speaker 7 (02:06:56):
M M.

Speaker 4 (02:06:57):
So if you think of we were talking about the
culture vulture in remic, right. If you think of the
names that we all know, Tommy Mottola, If you think
of of Homeboy that found that, that found Whitney Houston
in the church.

Speaker 2 (02:07:14):
No, No, that wasn't.

Speaker 3 (02:07:17):
There was baby did you talk about?

Speaker 5 (02:07:20):
I see him in my face.

Speaker 4 (02:07:25):
And all of these, all of these real people Clyde Davis,
that have that that vampire like quality that find our churches,
find our best voices and end up killing our great singers.
I think of the you know, we talked about Donnie Hathaway,

(02:07:46):
we talked about Whitney Houston, Michael Jackson, Prince snoother like
Sam Cook. I mean, there's so many of the the
great voices of our generation that have had these untimely
deaths do to this constant battle of like good and evil.
And then that that's what I saw the church representing

(02:08:06):
in uh in in in the film.

Speaker 2 (02:08:09):
Bossy, What were you gonna say?

Speaker 5 (02:08:12):
A couple of things. Uh They made it a point
to keep mentioning or to to to let us know
that the twins father was abusive, and then also that
his that he was Sammy's uncle like his dad's older
brother or younger their brothers, and the fact that they
both probably and this is this is the math that
I did when I was taking my walk, But their

(02:08:34):
father was probably enslaved at some point, either either at
the tail end or or at some point. So the
ways in which they too, they they handled their traumas.
One became abusive, one became a preacher. And it's all
born of the same need to to to tend to

(02:08:57):
generational traumas and generational wounds. And so the grace that
I give Sammy's father is that I know all of
this horrible, terrible things that happened in the world, and
my cover is God in Jesus. I don't know any
of the words, I don't know any of the hoodoo
to like to make anybody feel better. I don't have

(02:09:19):
any control, I don't have any power. All my powers
in the Lord, and that's the only thing I can
offer you in this your time of need. And so
being able to see that both Remic and his father
were offering him fear yes, and could not choose fear,
he didn't. He killed it over here with the thing

(02:09:41):
that was supposed to be his downfall, according to his father,
was what literally saved his life when it came to
when it came to to remic and what freed him,
and him feeling free and his father needing to protect
him because I don't think it's all like, ah, I
don't care about you, I love you, I don't know

(02:10:01):
how to do this. I don't know how to take
care of you. I don't know how to protect you. Clearly,
I don't know anything but to give you the fear
that keeps you close to me, which is how a
lot of black parents parent through this veil of fear
and a lot of times it's going a tangent but
like now the days, but due to social media, people

(02:10:21):
lose the nuance of why parents behave the way they do.
It's not about being abusive and it's not about that.
It's like knowing that these people came from somewhere and
every generation believes that they're breaking a generational curse, and
they are, but there are still things that need to
be built upon. So that was the first thing. But
to what Mike was saying, I'm a huge Sam Cook fan,

(02:10:45):
Like he's been my like my favorite artist that's not
Kendrick since I was eight years old and I read
his biography that was made on of like the comprehensive
biography on Sam Cook, and I was like, I was
shocked at all of the things that that that that
went on in his life. But there are so many

(02:11:06):
stories of gospel singers who go against the church and
they become secular singers, and and a lot of times
something happens to them, like they die, they they they
get all kinds of things, something tragic happens to them.
And the the the Christian viewpoint is, see, we told
you the devil got you. See we told you that.

(02:11:28):
But what I think happens is they left the church.
And because they left everything you talked them about love,
about about forgiveness, about cherishing, about about about the eternal
unconditional love that comes with with with the cover of Christ,
all of that you take away from them. Now they're horrible.

(02:11:52):
Now they're there. They don't mean anything. Now they're they're
no good. Now they belong to the world, all of
these they're they're worldly.

Speaker 4 (02:11:58):
Right.

Speaker 5 (02:11:59):
So if you're telling somebody that just because I made
this decision, I am that is the end of me.
My soul is gone. What prevents them from being reckless
people what prevents them from falling headfirst into all the
vices because you said that they're unforgivable, You said that
they'll never be redeemed. You said that that once they

(02:12:21):
leave the cover of the church, the sanctity of the church,
then they're they're dead to you. So without that, they
don't have anything to protect. So I don't think it's
a it's a it's a it's a oh they did
this and that happened. It's because this happened because you
took away everything that I've known to be supportive. What's
the point of being anywhere needs community?

Speaker 4 (02:12:44):
And how does that make them any different than the vampires?

Speaker 2 (02:12:47):
Right said, unless you're going to conform.

Speaker 1 (02:12:51):
Yeah, unless you're going to conform, you're cast out. And
if you're cast out, you're dead. Does and we want
to use your gifts to spread the words that we want, right,
Like play the guitar.

Speaker 5 (02:13:03):
In church a gift, but do it for our reason.

Speaker 1 (02:13:05):
Yeah, Yeah, everything I said I totally co signed.

Speaker 2 (02:13:12):
As far as Annie, I love that she had read
the scription.

Speaker 1 (02:13:16):
I love that she knew what was gonna happen in
each scene in the movie because she was ready in
the way nobody else was She was like, guys, those
are vampires.

Speaker 2 (02:13:26):
Okay, don't let them in.

Speaker 1 (02:13:28):
Okay, Like get the body out of the house, like
she had did the research. And uh, clearly if they
had listened to her, we would all be Kamala Harris
would be president right now.

Speaker 3 (02:13:40):
But she knew what she was talking about.

Speaker 5 (02:13:45):
The other thing too, I love that they listened to
her too. They listened to her. Smoke was like, you're
gonna listen to her because she knows what she's talking about.

Speaker 1 (02:13:52):
Yes, I love that point that Mike brought up about
religion and the devil being an angel because it reminds
me of Kendrick Lamar's reincarnated.

Speaker 7 (02:14:05):
See, almost everything comes back to if it wasn't for
a BOSSI, if she.

Speaker 1 (02:14:23):
I knew she had points to make and I didn't
want to distract her. But I almost cut Michael off
before BOSSI was talking to be like, you.

Speaker 2 (02:14:30):
Don't have to say it, I'll say it.

Speaker 1 (02:14:32):
Reincarnated Kendrick Lamar thought of all that, even the even
the thing of like these other stars that are black,
that were cast out of church, that were cast out
of community, who fel to their own vices. Yes, even
the idea of what you do with those gifts, you know,
the angel taking music and then trying to rehabilitate himself and.

Speaker 2 (02:14:55):
Bring it back to earth.

Speaker 1 (02:14:57):
It reminds me of Stack in a way of like,
this gift does not I'm a vampire. I don't have
to be evil. I'm just a vampire. Oh so, like
I like that. And then the other thing I was
thinking too is who do you think I think would
be the funniest actor to have to be let in
the house as a vampire. Because the dude that played

(02:15:19):
corn Bread was great, he was like he was a
good one. But like, if you could cast one random
black person as need just a meaningless two minute scene
of begging to be letting the house, that make it?

Speaker 2 (02:15:34):
The audience laugh, Karen, who would you? Who would you cast?

Speaker 6 (02:15:40):
We kind of talked about this before and I have
several people, but I'm I'm gonna.

Speaker 1 (02:15:46):
Go go at your top one because I'm gonna make
it quick for everybody.

Speaker 6 (02:15:50):
My top one I would love to see, uh, Kat
Williams uh like, like that's my favorite. That's a good one,
and you need to be dressed up as the pimp.
Ain't slip back?

Speaker 1 (02:16:01):
Okay, well, okay, it might not fit the time period,
but I would I'll allow it, thank you, because I
can't see.

Speaker 3 (02:16:12):
Yeah s he could be a pimp.

Speaker 2 (02:16:14):
He just you know, you know what, Ruther figured it out.

Speaker 1 (02:16:17):
Ruth figured it out because she got she had all
of them looking modern to me, like they all look modern,
like obviously they close look more modern than Jonathan Major's close.
Like right, I was like, this is right, y'all could
roll in. Y'all could roll into the black Dandy place,
and I'd be okay and fit right on in. Mike,
do you have a person that you would have loved? Oh, Bossie,

(02:16:38):
go ahead, I know, I'm.

Speaker 5 (02:16:40):
Just gonna say. I know Jonathan is sick that he
couldn't get it. He canceled himself before.

Speaker 2 (02:16:45):
The next is right. He was like every day he
is somewhere dandy.

Speaker 4 (02:16:52):
He had his dandy outfit on the hangar.

Speaker 2 (02:16:54):
Yes, yes, he was waiting for that call up.

Speaker 1 (02:16:57):
He was hoping someone got sick and they had to
pull him up from the second string like a quarterback,
Like yeah, I guarantee you that that.

Speaker 2 (02:17:05):
Yeah, he was, he was ready. He was suited, just.

Speaker 3 (02:17:09):
Holding Megan his hand tight as hair, just mad. Just
what about you?

Speaker 2 (02:17:14):
Like any anyone you would have cast.

Speaker 4 (02:17:16):
Woman, this woman, this woman anyway? I would say I
have I have a funny answer and that I'm not
so funny. Okay, I would say, uh, Eddie Murphy because
his ability to have so many different voices, I feel
like he would just like old people.

Speaker 1 (02:17:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:17:38):
My off kilter answer for also humorous purposes would be
Shannon Sharp, just because I feel like his his vampire accent.

Speaker 1 (02:17:46):
Like.

Speaker 5 (02:17:49):
You doing.

Speaker 1 (02:17:51):
Right, Empire, vampire lags in five? What about you? Who
would you cast the person?

Speaker 5 (02:18:03):
First? I want to talk about Cornball real quick. When
he was asking for his money and his hand was over.

Speaker 1 (02:18:08):
Here, like that was so fucking funny to me. Can't
you can you believe Karen was shocked he tried to
buy him. I was like, this nigga is moving like
a bite. Every part of his being is I'm gonna
bite you and cares like.

Speaker 3 (02:18:26):
I hadn't you how I'm a scaty cat. And when
he reached down and all of a sudden his face changed,
I was like, the fuck's happendent?

Speaker 2 (02:18:37):
I can't believe that Karen was shot.

Speaker 5 (02:18:39):
When he and I jumped, you asked it for your money.
It's like give me my money.

Speaker 8 (02:18:42):
He was, right, can we out here doing? You know
when we're supposed to be going. I was like this
Wigga the club.

Speaker 4 (02:18:53):
We all feld He was really good.

Speaker 5 (02:18:57):
But my choice is Kiki Palmer.

Speaker 1 (02:19:00):
Oh that's a good one, all right, So I'll give mine.
People suggested a lot of good people. Kevin Hard, Keenan
Thompson was a good one. All the reginas they were did,
but mine is it's more serious, but it's way funnier

(02:19:22):
than everybody else's. Jonathan Majors It needed to be because
it's on a meta level.

Speaker 3 (02:19:32):
I just feel like we are.

Speaker 1 (02:19:34):
Honestly, I'm glad they didn't do it because honestly, everyone
would have had to leave the theater.

Speaker 4 (02:19:41):
Made such a crazy statement like that's something that Kolan
would do, Like that would be crazy.

Speaker 5 (02:19:49):
They work together in Creed, right he wanted I think that.

Speaker 3 (02:19:55):
Yeah, and he may have even written a role for him. Yeah,
not everybody.

Speaker 2 (02:20:00):
It's weird. I've never seen it like this for a
black person before.

Speaker 1 (02:20:03):
I've seen it for white people a lot, but I've
never seen so many people being like, we need to
get him back.

Speaker 3 (02:20:10):
I've never seen no shit, not for black people.

Speaker 1 (02:20:14):
Everybody normally be like, no nigga, you know, like this
the first time people have been like, so, we got
a movie coming out next week.

Speaker 4 (02:20:23):
All right, what.

Speaker 2 (02:20:24):
About Mary, guys, let's talk about Mary real quick.

Speaker 1 (02:20:27):
Something about Mary, Karen, you have any feelings on Mary.

Speaker 6 (02:20:33):
Mary was an interesting character because she represented a lot
of people in the South that.

Speaker 3 (02:20:44):
You present white even though you're not really white. But
niggas know you.

Speaker 6 (02:20:48):
But you can't be on outside of town and you
can't see us. You have to turn your nose a
walk past us because you if you acknowledge us in
any way other than telling us to get out, get out,
my white nigga, it becomes an issue.

Speaker 3 (02:20:59):
And it was one of those things.

Speaker 6 (02:21:02):
Where I believe that she loved that man, and she
loved him very dearly. And I do believe his thing was,
I'm gonna treat you bad, just so you understand. It's
not for me. It's for your protection. Gone out there
with your white husband, live your best white life. But
this his thing was, I'd rather see you alive and

(02:21:25):
out there than with me and dead, if that makes sense,
and so right, And so I think that after she
got bit, it is just me. I think it was
her that made the decision to go in there and
bite him.

Speaker 2 (02:21:40):
Like I I you don't think controlling her.

Speaker 6 (02:21:44):
No, and and and and the biggest reason why is
because she could have been anybody, because you know, because
you know, because if I'm a bite somebody, I could
have been anybody.

Speaker 3 (02:21:54):
But she was the only one that when she came,
she went and asked. They was like, oh, come.

Speaker 2 (02:22:02):
On in, you know, but she went straight for him.

Speaker 3 (02:22:04):
Yes, it's like you have this room.

Speaker 2 (02:22:06):
Because like we can be together.

Speaker 1 (02:22:07):
And that would make sense because even when they were
under the thrall of Remick, they wanted to turn Annie
because they knew that that would help, that would get
Smoke to the turn and then of course that would
get Sammy to turn. So no, I think that's and
so and.

Speaker 6 (02:22:22):
So in my mind, that's why that's why I was like, oh,
that was her decision, because and that's why she was
like we coming after y'all, And it was more of
she meant y'all as a collective, but she actually meant
like the other two, you know, Like in my mind, like.

Speaker 2 (02:22:39):
She ran out of there, which was funny. I was like,
she's not gonna turn.

Speaker 6 (02:22:43):
Nobody else, because that was her goal, her goal, because
she was like, if he's in there and they don't
let him out, he gonna get him anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 5 (02:22:53):
Just very I didn't. I forgot to mention this stack
was in that was in the juke, like he had
locked himself in the when the when the when the
klan was coming. That's neither here nor there. But what
we were talking about, Oh Mary, Okay. People keep saying
that Mary and Mary loved I think that it was toxic.

(02:23:14):
I think that they that they had like an attraction
and a passion for each other. But because of the
way that she was, so her privilege blinded her to
like the realities, and she didn't care about like even
in the in the in the wide open at the
training station, she was not careful at all about his

(02:23:34):
life or her life. So her turning him was I
think a selfish act because she knew that he couldn't.
He couldn't. He couldn't. Uh, he couldn't resist that, he couldn't.
She couldn't. He couldn't walk away from her if he
did that, if she did that, and that was her
only goal, even her walking out there to talk to

(02:23:56):
to remic in them. She was going after what he wanted,
which is he wanted the gold like Smoke was all
about the money, and she was like, if I get
that money for him, he's gonna to talk to me.

Speaker 4 (02:24:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:24:09):
And then she sucked around and they're not gonna do
anything to me because they think I'm white, right, And
then she sucked around and found out she's the white liberal.

Speaker 4 (02:24:18):
She's the white liberal, like for sure, and I definitely,
I don't know, it's subconscious, probably are very conscious. I
didn't really vibe with her character, like I didn't take
enough time in the theater to get to know her.
Like I was just like, oh this you know white
white people. Shit, you know what I mean? She being white?

(02:24:39):
She all dangerous, reckless, they kissing out public. She can't
get this man, she can get this man Lynch like
look at all reckless and abusive. That and two when
she turned him, there was something about it that like
they was doing too they was going too long like
everybody else's got bit like she was enjoying turning him

(02:24:59):
a litt a little bit too much. It felt it
felt like it felt toxic, boss, like you said toxic,
like in the true terms, like how we think of
a toxic relationship. Today she was enjoying killing him right
in a different way than just like I'm gonna make
him like me. I didn't like it. I didn't like it,

(02:25:20):
and I just I didn't invest a lot in her
character because it seemed like very typical to.

Speaker 2 (02:25:25):
Me as an MCU fan.

Speaker 1 (02:25:28):
Seeing Haley Steinfeld act that way was like, that's when
I had to be oh, she can act like this,
that thing where you're like, that's totally different than when
you play Hawkeye and the PG thirteen TV show like,
and she had the black like acting down to where
like you know, those people were we can tell people

(02:25:48):
are black, but white people can't tell people are black.
That thing she because like even at the train station,
I was like, she nah, I'm looking too far into this.
He need to get away from that white woman. But
later when they started telling that story and shout to
Ryan Coogler, he would of course cast someone who was
exactly the same racial makeup of the character. So which

(02:26:10):
is I don't know how that's gonna affect their career
because they have been seeing her as a white leading
lady for a minute, and now these white people know
that she's black, and I think some of us have
had to, like you shake the family tree, a negro
might fall out.

Speaker 2 (02:26:28):
But now we know it's confirmed.

Speaker 1 (02:26:30):
I hope it doesn't affect their career in any negative
way because I don't think she can make a career
out of these roles because she'll become the most hated
woman in Hollywood if she did that shit.

Speaker 4 (02:26:39):
So I didn't know she. I didn't know, Like, so
she's really yes, ten times down there.

Speaker 5 (02:26:44):
He's gonna I think her mom is half black or
her grandfather. I think it's like her grandfather's half black.

Speaker 6 (02:26:52):
Because Ryan Coogler ain't dumb, and he know people are
going to actually verify that shit. He made sure that
he got somebody because that's the ship niggas do. When
you have somebody like that, people are gonna va fire.

Speaker 3 (02:27:04):
To see their lineage.

Speaker 6 (02:27:05):
So he made sure before she got that role. Not
telling me funny because he because they know how people
are when you start.

Speaker 3 (02:27:13):
He covered all.

Speaker 5 (02:27:14):
His bases, like all the left fields, like where are
the queer characters? And where that? He was like all right,
but as far as everything else, he he covered. Some
of us want to say about Barry just like somebody else.
You know, one of the things that that that I
that struck me about Mary too, is that her being

(02:27:35):
a vampire gave her permission to be wild, and gave
her permission in a in a way that I mean,
you know, I'm not racist my grandfather's black type way,
where when she was white, she was all like, I'm
gonna go out there and I'm gonna talk to them
and they're gonna, you know whatever. As soon as she
became a vamp, she was wild and in closet she

(02:27:56):
was doing this.

Speaker 1 (02:27:57):
I think that also goes into that feeling feeling about
her relationship with Stack.

Speaker 4 (02:28:03):
Is that.

Speaker 1 (02:28:05):
Even that felt like her wanting to rebel, it didn't
feel like we need to be together as lovers because
he honestly had not really shown her love. It was
him finally saying it at the party to say but
up until that point he had been treating her like shit. Now,
I will say that gas lighting shit has done that
to many a woman. Well, like a dude is clearly

(02:28:28):
having like you can sense that they have deeper emotions
than they're letting on and they're doing the opposite, and
it will fuck your head up enough to where you're like,
I'm sticking around because I'm I need the truth, motherfucker,
whether we're together or not. You need to fucking tell
me what is happening, because I don't think if they
don't get turned to vampires, I don't think they're gonna

(02:28:49):
be together at any point. But I will say they're
together in nineteen ninety two, guys, So.

Speaker 5 (02:28:56):
But did you see the way that they were together.
She didn't say anything.

Speaker 3 (02:29:00):
She was just she had finally she.

Speaker 1 (02:29:03):
Had finally learned when black people are talking, shut the
fuck up. And I appreciated that. It's a small it's
a small thing, Ryan Coogler. But I saw what you did, Okay.

Speaker 4 (02:29:13):
I saw her in that nineteen ninety two clips as
a video girl, like.

Speaker 2 (02:29:18):
As like video masing type, the video.

Speaker 4 (02:29:21):
Vixen, like the start of the video vixen, that lollipop,
the earrings, you know, all that as what they were
trying to light skin.

Speaker 1 (02:29:31):
Well, just what I figured was they had had at
least twenty thirty fifty years of Look, a few decades
of therapy. It can get you in a good place,
like they have worked some shit out, apparently being vampires together,
because that's a long time vampire or not to still
be together sixty years later. So when they showed up together,
I was actually like, Okay, well you know that's there.

(02:29:54):
Happily ever after or whatever. But yeah, I much like y'all.
I was not that pressed about Harry as a character,
but I felt like the movie wasn't that pressed.

Speaker 2 (02:30:04):
It wasn't Mary's story.

Speaker 1 (02:30:06):
A lot of this felt like purposeful choices to be like,
whiteness is not the key to this story, Like race
is happening, but yeah, how it affects white people, what
white people think is not what we're asking in this story.
I'll go through some fast ones because I know.

Speaker 5 (02:30:21):
Really really quickly though. When the Oscar nominations come up,
if she is nominated for Best Or and she.

Speaker 1 (02:30:31):
Wins, yeah, I refuse. I refuse to even get pre
mad about that. They're gonna have to do that in
real time. Smack me in my face, and then I
will not. I'm not spending another what do we got
seven months to the Oscars? I'm not doing seven months
of anger?

Speaker 2 (02:30:48):
But yeah, they I staying with Bossie.

Speaker 1 (02:30:52):
If that ship happened, I'm going I'm going crazy.

Speaker 4 (02:30:56):
Grace.

Speaker 1 (02:30:57):
I feel like Grace's character has been misunderstood. I feel
like her character's been misunderstood and that a lot of
people think I think she's people think she's just there
to be like Asian people are white people and racist
to black people.

Speaker 2 (02:31:15):
Grace is clearly part of the community.

Speaker 3 (02:31:17):
And that's not made up.

Speaker 1 (02:31:18):
That's actual, like facts that white people's racism meant they would.

Speaker 2 (02:31:23):
Not have put stores in black communities.

Speaker 1 (02:31:25):
Uh, and they also would not frequent Asian stores, and
they also would not allow Asian people to buy their shit.
So it becomes a symbiotic relationship or whatever. They clearly
went back, you know, and I think it's smoke that
goes in there and they're like they clearly was cool
back in the day before they even left town was
ready for the juke joint shit. But it's always, if

(02:31:46):
you notice, it's always a financial relationship, meaning like the money.
They had to get the money right, and it was cute,
like it was part of the lingo of the relationship.
It wasn't like it was mad at each other, but
like when he's like, well, how much for we're gonna
need a song.

Speaker 2 (02:32:01):
So I think that's on purpose.

Speaker 1 (02:32:03):
But the main thing is I think people feel like
she let them in, the vampires in because she was like,
fuck these black people, and just from the way she
killed her husband, I think she clearly was only thinking
of her daughter. That doesn't necessarily make it okay, I
just made I think there's a way to interpret this

(02:32:24):
as like Ryan Coogler wrote a bad character or bad scene,
like he fucked up, or he means all Asian people
are trash or some shit, and I'm like, I think
y'all are going too far. You don't got to agree
with her doing that shit, but her motivations were clear
when she was set on fire and burned and killed
her husband only.

Speaker 3 (02:32:45):
And they both went down.

Speaker 1 (02:32:48):
I feel like she was saying, the knowledge of where
our daughter is dies to hear, and I hope, like,
I don't know what happens to the rest of you motherfuckers,
but that like the pussy e and shit didn't matter
me speaking in another lane, but you threatening my daughter
did it, and that does make her a weak link
because everybody else knew, Like, there's nothing they can say

(02:33:08):
that we should be entice.

Speaker 5 (02:33:10):
Everybody had people, though everybody in that room came from
somewhere and had people at home.

Speaker 1 (02:33:15):
I don't I don't know he didn't, but he didn't
call out. He didn't call out any of those people.
He didn't call out any There's a reason they wrote
it that way for her, like if they because they
didn't say, Annie, you got a cousin, like they clearly were,
like we we that little Asian girl we saw earlier
that was adorable. She's a fucking dead person unless you
uh let me in or kill me.

Speaker 2 (02:33:37):
And that I like, I said, I go ahead.

Speaker 5 (02:33:41):
No I I I gently pushed back on that because
I think she definitely represents the concept of people of
color who stop beating people of color once it serves
them to do something else. She's protecting her lineage. She
came both worked on the black side, the black in

(02:34:02):
the black store. Grace worked in the white store. We
saw her leave the white store and walk over and
her daughter, Lisa took her place at the white store
when we when we had that flash to Lisa, she
was looking out the window of the white store. I
think that I think that I don't think it was
a bad scene. I don't think that it was poorly

(02:34:23):
thought out. If anything, I think it was it was
fully fleshed out, and her giving her the grace of
she was only thinking about her daughter cool. Everyone was
still setting up, the doors were closed, we were setting up,
and then she yells, unbeknownst to anybody around her, come
on in, motherfuckers. There was it was gonna be sunset

(02:34:45):
in ten minutes, and we were still getting weak. Because
I was there, we were still getting ready. Annie was like,
do this. We're still doing this, We're still getting She
nobody was prepared for when she said that, because she
was only thinking about herself. I would I would agree
with you. Had she let everybody get prepared to let
them in, She's let them in.

Speaker 1 (02:35:08):
Well, this is what everybody else.

Speaker 2 (02:35:11):
This is my retort to that.

Speaker 1 (02:35:12):
I think if it was supposed to symbolize like a
people of color and joining into whiteness, which is the
critique I've seen of dislike, well, you know Asian people,
they get white when they want to be white, I
think she joins remick. That's the only way to make
that allegory completely work. It was a selfish move made
of love for her daughter. That's not necessarily a race thing.

(02:35:34):
That's that's a character, individual choice thing. Like it's like
they didn't do that to any of Yeah, it was
what she was was she decided to be an individual
because they it's check Ov's fans. Vampires have to get
in the room for the third act, so this, I
don't think the intent was to throw an Asian community.

Speaker 2 (02:35:55):
Grace is a character. I don't think the intent was
throw her under the bus.

Speaker 1 (02:35:58):
Is like another subset of like villainous person or you
know person that it was or not even like the
white people that from the Klan that let Rimick in.

Speaker 2 (02:36:07):
I don't think they. I don't think.

Speaker 1 (02:36:09):
I don't think Coogler intended for it to be like that.
I think people are walking out the movie hating her.
I don't think. I don't think that was Coogler's intention,
And I think people took it too far with that.

Speaker 2 (02:36:19):
That's all I'm saying. I don't That.

Speaker 1 (02:36:21):
Doesn't mean you have to agree with her choice or
think it was a smart choice or a long term choice.
I have an empathetic understanding of like you were like,
I think this is the way to save my kid,
but I don't. But beyond that, as I said earlier,
when he wasn't allowed in, Grace was part of not
allowing them in like they like it wasn't I'm gonna

(02:36:41):
join whiteness, it was something else that you can also
dislike I see it.

Speaker 4 (02:36:46):
I see it almost as a as a reverse right,
So I see it as it is an easy kind
of trope and maybe a stereotype of like one of
the the high levels of like what racism looks like
to assume or to use the Asian character in that way,

(02:37:07):
and based on everything that we've seen and what we've
been talking about, Ryan Coogler, like, that's just too easy.
But I think that for us as black folks, the
easy access to that part of the story is to blame,
to blame, right, but to blame the Asian lady. But

(02:37:27):
in reality, the devil here is still the white person, right,
And what the white person, What whiteness does you know,
Remick is the character. But what whiteness does is it
causes us to infight with each other. Even though like
there is like you know, the black brown thing we've

(02:37:49):
talked about recently with the election and all that. There's
some truth in that for sure, but our focus tends
to be on each other and what these other people
have color are experiencing people of color, But the focus
should be on the evil white man.

Speaker 1 (02:38:07):
Del Roy Lindo even said, like he likes that analogy
of this outside forest causing the community to tear itself
apart from within and within the purposes, within the purposes
of that scene and that story, she is part of
their community, even if it's even if it's tertiary, even
if the Venn diagram is in the circle that the

(02:38:28):
point was this is a community or else.

Speaker 2 (02:38:30):
I don't think you have the.

Speaker 1 (02:38:31):
Asian people in the scene where you're commuting to the ancestors, Like,
I just don't think you get all that if the
if the purpose is for us to only see her
as an outsider who betrayed everybody, I just think I
don't know if that would feel so long.

Speaker 4 (02:38:46):
I think I think whiteness, though, the whiteness of it
all understands that the black people may right assume that
the age is uh, there's more of a proximity between
white and Asian in the racial you know, in the

(02:39:09):
racial oppression wars, and the white people know that, right,
So they know that the black people are gonna look
crazy at the Asian person instead of us out here
doing the Irish jig because they're in there with them, right,
And so like there's just you know, we understand, and
sometimes the mistake can be that Asian people this is

(02:39:32):
this is all big painting with broad brushes, right. The
Asian people sometimes become too akin and too familiar with
the white experience and vice versa. Right, So it was
an easy choice for Remick to be like, oh, I'm
gonna get the Asian because you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (02:39:48):
So I think, I think again, just like, just like
we've been saying all night, all things can be can
be true. I don't think I I as a person
watching who was deeply invested, I didn't like what she did,
but I understand it in the context of what the

(02:40:09):
movie was trying to say and in the micro and
the macro sense. Something that I also wanted to point
out is during the scene when Sammy is playing and
you see the past president future of culture, like one
of the most incredible depictions of that idea I've ever

(02:40:29):
seen in my life. But if you notice when the
Chinese dancers come, they're the same we've seen them before.
There was no past president future for them. And my
interpretation was it's because Chinese people gate keep the fuck
out of their culture. You don't get to see anything
unless it wasn't until what the mid sixties or seventies

(02:40:52):
that they were allowed to even teach martial arts outside
of an Asian country. They gatekeep, so they don't have
the constantly reinvent and and and and have to give
up something and then find a way to build it
back up together. Everything that we saw, as far as
the dance, the music, the Grio rappers singers, all that

(02:41:14):
is a result of the fact that Black people are
constantly having to find new ways to express culture because
the remis of the world take it, bastardize it, and
then and then and then refuse to let us have
any access to it again. All of a sudden, Beyonce
can't be country music because country music is white. Now,
all of a sudden, rock and roll is like all

(02:41:36):
of these different things. Boy it comes to Asians. Asians gatekeep,
their culture stays the same, they're not They don't have
to constantly reinvent or reculture or or repurpose things to
make it theirs again. And that's why I believe all
that coming together with Grace her working on the white side,
I think it was just a matter of of of

(02:41:58):
the the politics of self preservation and the symbolizing of
that is her being concerned with her daughter. I as
a viewer, was pissed off about it, But go entering
the world and the and the and the framework of
what I think that Ryan Kugler was presenting in this
entire universe. That's where I think that came from. They

(02:42:20):
protect their culture and she was protecting her culture, which
is her daughter.

Speaker 2 (02:42:25):
Cam, what are you gonna say?

Speaker 6 (02:42:28):
I think for me, it's one of those things where
it's a mixture of things because of Black people's interactions
with Asian people and how they come into our community
and boxes out of our own community and sell us
things for you know, I mean, and we can't even
have access to it. I think a lot of people

(02:42:50):
bought that into this the not tell me fun and like.

Speaker 1 (02:42:52):
They're bringing those these internal things that are real, not
funny despite whatever expressing themselves. One in the chat said
they saw an interview with Ryan Coogler said he has an.

Speaker 2 (02:43:03):
Aunt who's Chinese who he loves deeply.

Speaker 1 (02:43:05):
I don't think he was portraying Grace as an interloper
slash outsider, but go ahead.

Speaker 6 (02:43:10):
Right so so so in my opinion, I really do,
and so I get it. I understand, uh these feelings.
But the thing is, I'm looking at what was presented
to me on the screen, like from my from my perspective,
and from what I saw, Yes, it was selfish. Yes
it was fucked up and yet and I and I
get that part, and the part was to kind of

(02:43:31):
make you angry, like why did you let them in?
But also she wanted to protect hers just like the
black people wanted to protect theirs.

Speaker 1 (02:43:39):
It was selfish in the way that Smoke letting Stack
live was selfish.

Speaker 2 (02:43:43):
Agreed, it was selfish in the way that that.

Speaker 3 (02:43:50):
She was not seen.

Speaker 1 (02:43:51):
I don't think it was her like it made symbolize this.
I don't think she was thinking as far as the
symbolism of it. I think she was as a cat
character going I'm throwing my life away, like this is
suicide mission for me like that. The true selfishness is
that she committed everyone else to her suicide. Miss she
was like, she did not look at that as we're

(02:44:14):
all getting out of this. She looked at that as
like we're dying and we're fucking arguing about what time
to let these motherfuckers in.

Speaker 2 (02:44:21):
Right, just do it. I'm gonna save my daughter, And
I think.

Speaker 1 (02:44:27):
The the movie doesn't give like Remick doesn't try to
angle with anyone else, so we don't get to see
if a black person would have broken that way. They
may have, but but Remick didn't. He like he could
have told Sam, I wanna kill your dad or something like.
For some reason, And this goes back to you know,
Bossi's point. For some reason, Remick knew enough to know

(02:44:50):
this will break you in a way that these black people,
these black people will not break together.

Speaker 6 (02:44:55):
Right because they look at me as an enemy and
they go, we don't trust you, right man.

Speaker 1 (02:45:00):
Yeah, So I think that was a big, a good point.
But I just think the discussion around Grace is not
what Bossie was saying. It's the stuff I've seen is
just like this is what I'm like, Uh, what is
he dumb?

Speaker 4 (02:45:11):
Now?

Speaker 2 (02:45:12):
He just dumb? So he made us fart movie.

Speaker 3 (02:45:14):
And then at this last and then it was just like,
you know what.

Speaker 1 (02:45:17):
Fucking man, fuck all Asian people and she's clearly a villain.

Speaker 2 (02:45:21):
She's on them excited.

Speaker 5 (02:45:22):
I'm like, no, it's del Are we spoking about Delta Slim?

Speaker 4 (02:45:26):
Yet?

Speaker 1 (02:45:26):
That's that was the next person I was gonna pull
up I have two more people left, well, okay, Delta, Slim, Karen, Bossi, Mike.

Speaker 3 (02:45:38):
He was an interesting character.

Speaker 6 (02:45:40):
You looking at him, you go, you done been through
some things, and you have seen some things, and you
have you've lived a life, you know, because basically when
they come to him, he was like, why would I
fuck with y'all?

Speaker 3 (02:45:53):
I know if I go over here, I'm gonna get paid.

Speaker 5 (02:45:55):
What what is y'all really guaranteed?

Speaker 3 (02:45:59):
Right? Like, I don't, I don't get this.

Speaker 6 (02:46:02):
And so I think that them offering him beer. I
think that him actually hearing Sammy sing it performed, he
was like he knew that same it was something special.
I think that's that's probably the biggest reason why he
even agreed to.

Speaker 3 (02:46:19):
Do it in the first place.

Speaker 6 (02:46:22):
And I think him seeing his buddies on the side
of the road and ship like that, you know, like
like and it was almost like keep your hands up, fellas,
And he basically.

Speaker 1 (02:46:34):
Goes through the story, Honest to god, that could have
been so fucking corny. That could have that is so
like message like that's that level of like intent and
I don't I tears like it worked so fucking well.

Speaker 2 (02:46:50):
I was I was unarmored.

Speaker 1 (02:46:52):
It's like he ripped my he rapped my emotional armor
off of me and was like, no, Nigga, this is
gonna make you cry.

Speaker 3 (02:46:58):
This shit hurt.

Speaker 1 (02:46:59):
And I'm like, god, damn darl Roy Lindo was able
to do that to me? What he better be get nominated?

Speaker 3 (02:47:04):
Yes for something?

Speaker 6 (02:47:06):
And then and I just really enjoyed him because particularly
the funniest part was a ship with the garlic.

Speaker 3 (02:47:12):
He's like, Nia, We're gonna have to kill you. He
was like, no, I'm just choking. I was like, oh,
I don't tell you how.

Speaker 1 (02:47:20):
He vacillates from like serious drama to like literally ship
your parts comedy.

Speaker 3 (02:47:27):
Yes, stale, Ary Lindo, What the fuck?

Speaker 4 (02:47:29):
Bro?

Speaker 3 (02:47:30):
God damn you good?

Speaker 5 (02:47:32):
He was really really since he's been that one of
them one.

Speaker 3 (02:47:37):
I believe he was. I believe that Nigga was a
blues I believe player.

Speaker 6 (02:47:42):
I do too, like like, yeah, you was a blues player,
Yes you was, sir?

Speaker 2 (02:47:45):
Go ahead, Mike, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (02:47:47):
No, I would just say also in Krikland, can were
you finished?

Speaker 3 (02:47:50):
Go ahead?

Speaker 4 (02:47:52):
I love Lindo as an actor. I this is niggas
from Brooklyn always got a connection. My dad used to do.
Used to knows del Roy used to do acting class
with him in Brooklyn. Some Brooklyn trit of that ship. Anyway,
his character was amazing. There was a time again since recently,

(02:48:16):
I think there's always uh something. They call me red pill,
blue pill. I don't know. I don't trust anything, And
there was a moment where I didn't trust his character.
He was just he was moving too funny, like he
was moving too awkward. I really thought that he was
a vampire at one point, but I thought he was
able to do some other worldly spiritual shit and he

(02:48:39):
was able to be in that space. But it was
the you know, the alcoholism and and you know, the
things that he's seen in his life that made him
someone put in the in the chat. I was just
about to say that Sammy's character and his character they
were simpatico, Like they both had some amazing seeing gifts.

(02:49:01):
And I think while Sammy's was his voice and singing, uh,
his character was storytelling and and and almost like I
kind of like it, like he was like a rapper,
Like he was able to use the gift of gab
to tell stories and bring it in in such a
visceral way that I thought he was otherworldly, you know,

(02:49:24):
I thought he was. I thought he was sick or
something was going on. But loved his character.

Speaker 1 (02:49:29):
And the script clearly knows that we're suspicious of him
when they do the garlic scene, right like all of
us are like, I.

Speaker 3 (02:49:38):
Ain't gonna have to kill old man, But okay, BOSSI.

Speaker 5 (02:49:44):
It was him and and Pearly in that scene because
I was like, Pearly too much of a vixen, and uh,
what's going on with her?

Speaker 4 (02:49:50):
I thought.

Speaker 5 (02:49:51):
But one of the things again, the way that I
thought about the Twins' father, Delta Slim must been enslaved
as well at his age during that time. He knows
that when he was at the end of the way,
right the way that he he had that that the

(02:50:14):
PTSD battle scars drinking is the only way I know
how to get through this, going from enslave, knowing what
it means to be enslaved, to being enslaved by a
chain gang like being like all these different elements that
he had. And the reason, one of the reason why
I had such a visceral, visceral response to Grace walking

(02:50:38):
out of that theater is because that man cut himself
to draw the vampires to him to protect everybody else.
He did that, And I can't look at a Grace
character and empathize with her despite being a mother, despite
all that other thing, when this all black man who
has probably seen more horrors than we can imagine, cuts

(02:50:59):
himself else to draw because he knows you at the
end of his life. Anyway, Come, It'll buy y'all some
time to do something whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (02:51:09):
You need to.

Speaker 1 (02:51:09):
To me, was Delta Slim to me that was that
was his community in that room, like that's that's I
think to summarize the whole thing with Grace, I think
that's the difference. Grace's community was not outside in that
room by like her daughter counted more than being with
those people. Delta Slim, a guy who we literally had

(02:51:32):
met just earlier that day, who had no real ties
to anyone, stack had the broblem with beer to get
him to go there. Clearly he is uh the They
became his community in a day, and that is to me,
the ties of blackness.

Speaker 5 (02:51:49):
It's to me, it was it was the symbol of
the the fucked up, damaged yet still all about loving
his people. Elder like that's who he was. He he

(02:52:09):
looked like the most unreliable person, Like he looked like
the person who like, oh word and be gone. As
a matter of fact, when that fight happened, for some reason,
I thought he was involved. I don't know why. I
just said, like some some some shit he'd be involved in.
But to see him that level of bravery, that level
of self sacrifice, that level of of empathy that he

(02:52:30):
showed uh so often in those final scenes, it just
was a symbol of of of of black elders and
what they're capable of despite all the the I keep
saying traumas, with the traumas and the wounds that caused
them to be unreliable, and and and and and easily

(02:52:50):
dismissed because they're just drunks.

Speaker 1 (02:52:52):
Who agree that it was real ship that got him
to that point out throwing some quick things about him
because I think everybody went. I felt like that garlic
scene is all about how easy it is for a
community to lose trust with each other when that when
the threat of white supremacy is at the door like that,
like because everybody was suspect. It reminds me of you know,

(02:53:14):
I think at this point, probably my favorite episode of Atlanta.
It's a bit off the beaten path, but with the
sushi restaurant one and the dude was like, don't trust
the niggas from Chicago. They're always trying to hit a lick.
Like I was like, this is that? That was Bars.
I honestly started to wonder. I felt like he just

(02:53:35):
needed to believe again, Like that's kind of what happened
to him.

Speaker 3 (02:53:39):
Sammy made him believe in.

Speaker 1 (02:53:42):
Something again and became like his you know satchel to
Jackie Robinson, like where sam Sammy does go hit the
major leagues, but he wouldn't be Sammy without this negro
league picture. When they show uh, Buddy, I think his
is Buddy guy the the Late when that's the news.

(02:54:05):
That's Sammy in today. When they show that, I said, damn,
he remind me of dar Rolando, Like they're like that,
like that man imprinted something on him and the last
thing about him, I wonder. It felt like if he
never had as much trauma and had not turned to alcohol,

(02:54:26):
I felt like he had the gift to I do too.

Speaker 5 (02:54:29):
Yes, without a doubt. The way the scene that made
me like when I was just watching the movie, Oh
this is nice colors, great acting. The scene that made
me sit up was that scene in the car when
he goes from like humming sadly to like humming a song. Yes,
That's when I was like, okay, hold on, let me

(02:54:49):
sit up. Something happening here.

Speaker 1 (02:54:51):
It felt like he recognized that in Sammy, I felt
like the reason he even went with them essentially he recognized.

Speaker 6 (02:54:59):
That I gotta see this, Yes, like he knew, he
knew beyond.

Speaker 5 (02:55:05):
He's like the like the old drunk or or drug
addict who always make sure the smart kid gets the school. Yes,
like to always make sure that that because he he
could have been something somebody looked out for him. So
looking out for for that person.

Speaker 4 (02:55:20):
Yeah, and in the way he might be afraid of
his talent, like he might be afraid of his power.
Is so he doesn't it.

Speaker 3 (02:55:27):
Because that story, that's that story, is that right? Like
what he's like, we played for the for the police
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (02:55:33):
Fuck and then they essentially did this stuff to us
because they saw that fire and they and they.

Speaker 2 (02:55:39):
The whiteness is a vampire of its own too.

Speaker 1 (02:55:41):
It's not all just remick that you know, like this
allegory extends beyond, which is why the choice to become
a vampire felt so alluring when REMI made that pitch
is because it's like it's sucking the same ship, except
now I can live forever. Last two characters. I don't
have much to say about Parley other than she was
just find the ship.

Speaker 2 (02:55:59):
But I don't know if y'all.

Speaker 1 (02:56:01):
And also, like I do, wonder where what's her husband
up to the next day?

Speaker 3 (02:56:05):
What is her husband? Doesn't even realize she missing.

Speaker 4 (02:56:10):
That she it's nineteen.

Speaker 3 (02:56:13):
Twenty, what is she even doing?

Speaker 8 (02:56:14):
Leaving the house was like a night she was like,
he married, I ain't right cha walking like.

Speaker 4 (02:56:21):
She lived in walking discys.

Speaker 2 (02:56:24):
Maybe that's what listen.

Speaker 1 (02:56:26):
Must have been a Friday night church service, because that
you joint that juke jeling like it ain't open up
till ten. Okay, right that she left the house at
nine fifteen walking in that dress, and he was like,
I guess, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:56:41):
I need to be young.

Speaker 5 (02:56:43):
And the memory of her was so good. But eighty
years later he is a club.

Speaker 3 (02:56:47):
Listen that man.

Speaker 1 (02:56:51):
That man said, listen, okay, I know what I like
if anyone has it? Oh, and I do, of course
her and Annie once again, I like that they have
some dark skinned love interest. I think movies like this
tend to a lot of times the men who make.

Speaker 2 (02:57:05):
Them tend to get more obsessed about Mary's character.

Speaker 1 (02:57:07):
And I like that Mary felt like an afterthought because
she essentially kind of isn't after thought when it comes
all Overments and Pearline and Sammy is the ones that
they like, Hey, this is what it is right here.
As soon as she got off that train and cocked
her head as Sam y'all was like, oh my god,
I was like, she looked at him like, little boy, listen,
really know what you're about to get into.

Speaker 2 (02:57:28):
She turned to walk away.

Speaker 1 (02:57:29):
I said, how you have ask an address in nineteen tweets?
And then when she was on the stage singing and stomping,
I was like, God, damn lady, listen, Okay, I get it, Sammy.

Speaker 2 (02:57:41):
I would have anyway saying I.

Speaker 4 (02:57:44):
Appreciate I appreciate that that coopler included the idea of
her asking to clean up first, like just like yeah,
like that's such a real.

Speaker 3 (02:57:56):
That's what made it.

Speaker 1 (02:57:57):
That's what made it more hot that he was like,
you're so It's like when niggas say you're so fine.

Speaker 2 (02:58:03):
I drink your black water.

Speaker 3 (02:58:05):
He did that. He was like, I don't care.

Speaker 1 (02:58:09):
That we're in nineteen twenty. I don't give a fuck
right now.

Speaker 3 (02:58:13):
You that fine?

Speaker 2 (02:58:14):
And what what's sexier than that?

Speaker 3 (02:58:17):
A nigga?

Speaker 1 (02:58:18):
Truly like, I don't care if they walk in on
me doing this. I hope they all see you fuck it.

Speaker 2 (02:58:23):
And that's exactly what happened.

Speaker 5 (02:58:25):
Did one of the twins tell him about that?

Speaker 1 (02:58:27):
Yes, earlier he took that it was Stack. He went
with Stack, so, yeah, that's right, Sammy. Sammy was taking notes.
He put that guitar down, like, hold on, let me
see this paper real quick. I'm saying it's like a
little man in a boat. Okay, right, put that in

(02:58:51):
the song name Club Act Sammy. That's the last character.
Thoughts on Sammy generally, I can't believe this is this
guy's first acting job.

Speaker 2 (02:59:02):
That's yeah, that's the first movie.

Speaker 1 (02:59:05):
First he was like America's Got Talent star or something,
not that show exactly, but that's why he.

Speaker 5 (02:59:11):
Was a gospel family and he sang backup for her.

Speaker 1 (02:59:14):
Yeah, and and once again, like I said, I don't
think Ryan Cooler was explicitly trying to make like Christian
people feel bad because a lot of people working around
this movie are Christian people that I feel like would
peel personally fucking insulted if he was just like, yeah,
so the point is to say, this shit ain't real.
Vampires are real, who is real? Your shit is bullshit?

(02:59:35):
So but it was like spirituality of some type takes
a form. I think that is how it felt. But Sammy, Karen,
what did you think about this character?

Speaker 6 (02:59:45):
I love that we see the movie from Sammy's perspective.
I think it was probably the most perfect perspective versus
you know, seeing it from twins and seeing it from
his dad or anybody else, because he was literally one
of the youngest characters in the crew.

Speaker 3 (03:00:06):
And also I.

Speaker 6 (03:00:07):
Remember when he was in the car and he started
singing and the twins said whoo, and it was like
our faces were the same, because it's like I didn't
expect that bass to come out that body.

Speaker 3 (03:00:22):
I don't know if that makes sense, Like go b
Jordan held.

Speaker 1 (03:00:25):
It down for all of us, and sitting in the
theater that all had the same reaction to Sammy started singing.
And what's even crazier is like it's twenty twenty five,
that just means he has to be good at singing,
because all of us have heard that type. At this point,
we turned that off, like if that came on up radio,
we'd be like, power ninety eight must be broke.

Speaker 2 (03:00:44):
I don't know what that is.

Speaker 1 (03:00:46):
We were all in the theater seated leaning forward, like
please don't ever stop singing, Sammy right. And so for
me just to hit it, father was like, goddamn, I
was like that voice it was. I was like, it's
something special about this boy was And for me the
thing where he was singing and everything kind of changed

(03:01:06):
and it burnt down. I loved the way it was shot,
and I loved Remick on the outside looking in.

Speaker 3 (03:01:14):
Yes, I loved the fact that even through.

Speaker 6 (03:01:21):
You had the current and you had the kind of
the spirits and the ancestors dancing around them, it literally
looked like one.

Speaker 3 (03:01:28):
It was like no separation between the two.

Speaker 6 (03:01:31):
Everybody's kind of moving around each other, in and out
of each other and things like that. And it was
gorgeous and it was beautiful, and it was one of
those things. And for me, it emphasized the power and
the authority behind his voice. Yes, and it made me
understand why Remick was like, Oh, I got to have
that shit.

Speaker 1 (03:01:50):
Yeah, they made that grial shit that they said at
the very beginning, which I kind of I didn't dismiss it,
but I was like, oh, it's a metal It's like
Jordan Peel when he puts like some shit at the beginning.

Speaker 2 (03:02:00):
I'm like, oh, it's some type of metaphor.

Speaker 1 (03:02:02):
No, nigga, they literally illustrated this is gift, like you
know what earlier when you thought it was gonna be
an allegory for something, No, it's not an allegory. This
shit make you feel like the future of the past
and everything together and the music blending with the rap
and all that shit, the afrofuturism, like the god take
a fucking bow. I know.

Speaker 2 (03:02:22):
You guys came up with two scenes. First, you and
Michael B. Jordanson and around.

Speaker 1 (03:02:27):
There were two scenes that you said, we don't know
what the rest of the movie is, but we have
to make a movie. That's definitely one of them, and
the other one is shooting up the plan.

Speaker 3 (03:02:34):
Those are the.

Speaker 2 (03:02:35):
Two scenes them.

Speaker 1 (03:02:36):
Niggas was like, if we can get Hollywood to let
us make this shit, and they cooked and they made it.

Speaker 3 (03:02:42):
I'm sorry Karen, did you have any more before I
go to next person? Oh? And that was basically it.

Speaker 6 (03:02:46):
But it was just gorgeous and it made me. Really
it made Sammy's choice at the end with his daddy
more understandable, like after he went through everything and he
didn't drop the guitar. Yes, it made it more understandable,
you know, because you know when the Twins threatened him
and he was like, you're not here to stop me,

(03:03:06):
so I'm gonna go do what I want to do
type of type type of thing, like like.

Speaker 1 (03:03:10):
He was as much committed to playing his art and
as anyone was committed to anything, Yes, as Smoke was
committed to any as like as Remick was committed to
turning everybody Like that motherfucker's commitment to that music.

Speaker 2 (03:03:29):
That ship was powerful.

Speaker 3 (03:03:31):
It was something else.

Speaker 6 (03:03:32):
And I enjoyed that character like and I, like I said,
I enjoyed everything was centered around that character. And I
think with his age and him being so young, it
was it.

Speaker 3 (03:03:42):
Was just perfect.

Speaker 2 (03:03:44):
What about you, Bossy?

Speaker 5 (03:03:47):
I I can't say enough about Sammy. I thought that
first of all, Miles Canton is that his name just
was was possessed like he he there was something I've
been using the word like anointed and prophecy and profit
and all that stuff a lot. I'm not gonna tell why,

(03:04:08):
but I feel like he has the same one. I
didn't say it, Uh, he has that same like you
were born for this moment. Yeah, you don't have to
do anything else. And I low key wish you don't
do anything else, because the way that that Hollywood is,
they'll have you, they'll have you doing some shit that
that that is beneath your talents, right, But this was,

(03:04:32):
this was so perfect And something that I haven't been
able to talk about is it's hard because I hadn't
figured it out, and I just want to throw it
here at the end of the movie when when you
see the scars on his face, immediately I thought about
like African scarification and every just about every group on

(03:04:55):
the continent has some version of scarification. In Wakanda Forever
kill Manger had it to like mark his kills, right,
and but a lot of times, and I can't speak
for other people, but those scars are very YOURBA. I'm
not your ba, but that's they look very much like
you're about scars. My people do it too, But I

(03:05:15):
have these scars I have on my wrists, both my wrists,
on the top of both of my feet, like they're
four like lines. And as I've gotten older, they've got
there faded a little bit more, but they're like these
very deliberate four lines on my wrists in the bottom
of my feet and for the longest time, like I've
always had them, and whenever I asked, they're like, oh,

(03:05:37):
we don't know. Like you fell, I felt with four
perfect marks on my wrists and both my you know
what I'm saying, Like, all right, cool whatever. It wasn't
until I went to Nigeria and I asked one of
my aunties who's been around since I was little. She's like, oh, uh,
you had malaria and we and somebody did that in
order to let the sickness out. Here's the thing, I

(03:05:59):
literally biologically, genetically can't get malaria. I have dallas semia trade.
I can't get valaria. I've never had malaria. What are
you talking about? What are you saying? So what I
kind of figured out and like put together is like
they did it right before I left for America, and
a lot of these marks are this is where you belong.
These are your people I can tell by the way

(03:06:20):
the length of them, I can tell by the depth
of them. I can tell about the structure. This is
your clan, These are your people. If anything ever happens
to you, this is where they take you back to.
And the way that people always say, oh, the Africans
had slaves, yes, but they also had when you're free
to go, you know exactly the roadmap of your existence
is on your face. That's how you get back to

(03:06:43):
your home. They haven't done that. It's very rare to
see somebody my age or younger with the scars on
their face because colonization, religion, Christianity, everything. That's the reason
why nobody will tell me what these actually are, because
they've been told and convinced that everything African traditional culture

(03:07:05):
or religion is witchcraft, is demonic. So either you find
a way to practice what you practice but call it
something else, or you stop doing it. Those are the
only choices that black people have, slavery, colonization. So when
I saw the scars on his face and they mimic that,
to me, it's like that's where he belongs, he knows
where home is, He's moved And this is me being

(03:07:27):
really corny and it's a reach, is a stretch whatever,
because it's only on one side of his face and
so perfectly lying to me. It was like African American, like,
you belong to both of these places. You belong in
the past and the future and the presence. You belong somewhere.
You are someone who has a home in anywhere that
you go, you can make a home, but this is
where you're from. So anyway, I loved Sammy more than

(03:07:52):
I can even express I love the growth that he showed.
I love the fact that he chose himself. I love
the fact that he prayed before he killed Remick because
it means that he wasn't turning away from God. He
likes like like Smoke, were creating their own God and
their own religion. How can something that is that is
so powerful that they want to kill me for it

(03:08:15):
be against God?

Speaker 4 (03:08:16):
Like?

Speaker 5 (03:08:16):
How can how can that not be God? How can
that not be a blessing? How can I not know
that this thing literally saved my life and now I'm
going to abandon it for what?

Speaker 4 (03:08:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (03:08:27):
Because I love that he wasn't like running to money
and fame and fortune. That's not us like it was
like I just need to live in my gift, like
this is a this is a thing I've been given
and I don't want to spend it boxed up inside
this church, which is an adult was adult motivation, Mike,
it's your turn.

Speaker 4 (03:08:44):
Yeah, uh, of course I stand on and agree with
everything everybody said. The only thing I'd add is that
a lot of times in movies like this, especially like
big blockbuster movies where he's like the central character, the
character won't know or acknowledge how powerful they are. And

(03:09:04):
maybe he didn't understand his power, but he knew his
talent right, and he was so confident about it, and
you just don't see that with with main characters, you know,
if you think about the average knew that, oh what,
I could throw a baseball really fast? Oh my god,
I didn't know, you know, And he's like he leaned
into it. He knew it. Everybody else knew it. And

(03:09:25):
it wasn't like, you know, there was there was no
pride about it. There was no like bad pride about it.

Speaker 5 (03:09:33):
It was an.

Speaker 4 (03:09:35):
Arrogance, right right, That's that's the actual word.

Speaker 2 (03:09:39):
But yeah, though I was picking up what you was
putting down.

Speaker 4 (03:09:42):
Bad pride, bad pride, but no, I just loved that
about his character. And of course everybody's talked about his voice.
I didn't think it was real, Like, I didn't think that.
I just thought it was Yeah, I thought it was
somebody else, or it was you know, they're playing someone
else's music. But just a phenomenal character. I loved that
he was a young man, you know, and the black

(03:10:02):
boys for the most part in this in this role,
and and showed courage throughout, just very intentional all the
of course it's cooler, but all the things that he
put into his character, it was phenomenal. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:10:15):
I think the only things I would add is I
love the big cousin the element of it, like making
him the emotional center and making him his agency was
only in the art. It wasn't in anything else in
the film. Like he didn't he wasn't a gangster, he
wasn't violent, he wasn't even fighting off vampires.

Speaker 4 (03:10:32):
Really he was.

Speaker 2 (03:10:33):
I mean, if anything, motherfucker was finne get. He was
finna catch hey, he was finna die.

Speaker 1 (03:10:38):
Like like hey, Ryan, cooler boy, did he cut that
shit close?

Speaker 3 (03:10:42):
Because I really was like, is it nah? You would
not let this motherfucker die?

Speaker 1 (03:10:46):
Ryan well not after everything we done been through for Sammy,
but your brother, the sun's coming up, it's getting close.

Speaker 3 (03:10:54):
And then the last thing is for the music.

Speaker 1 (03:10:57):
I just think on such a bold choice to not
go with like nostalgic hit music or whatever, like it
wasn't because I think that's such an easy thing to
rely on. Is like, you know, you just give everybody
a song we already love and know, but it's the
Jennifer Hudson version or whatever. So we're like, I love this,
this character is the best. I'm like, we just are
completely respecting his ability to sing.

Speaker 3 (03:11:19):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (03:11:20):
We're not a country of a lot of people that
are into nineteen twenties blues nineteen like, we're just not.
It's you know, I feel how you feel about it.
But yeah, I've been to a basketball arenas. They don't
just throw on those songs, you.

Speaker 3 (03:11:35):
Know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (03:11:35):
Not so like had So that was a choice in
this movie to be like in a movie where they
could have made it time traveling, they could have been like, oh,
well he plays this, it's really a metaphor for this.

Speaker 3 (03:11:46):
It was like, no, nigga, this is this shit hits.

Speaker 1 (03:11:50):
Like when he did the Blues version of like this,
this little light of mine or whatever.

Speaker 3 (03:11:54):
The end, it's like this. Nigga is good. He is
good good. I feel like y'all just feeling this because
he's so good.

Speaker 5 (03:12:02):
Right, Yeah, and you know he learned to play the
guitar for the role.

Speaker 3 (03:12:07):
Oh my god, what he.

Speaker 5 (03:12:09):
Didn't play the guitar before he learned to play for
this role.

Speaker 2 (03:12:12):
That's crazy.

Speaker 5 (03:12:13):
All right, Well, look, you better win everything.

Speaker 1 (03:12:16):
I'll go around to ask final thoughts. We've been doing
this over three hours. You guys got this too much
out of this. Even though I promise not to caring
any final thoughts, I.

Speaker 6 (03:12:27):
Don't really have any final of ours other than I
loved the movie. I enjoyed it very much. If you
have not seen it, they're re releasing it, re release
it again around Halloween.

Speaker 1 (03:12:39):
In imax, meaning it's still in theaters now. Yes, it
is not an imax. I want to see an imax.
I believe it comes back like the twenty first or something.

Speaker 6 (03:12:46):
And it's worth it in imax. We see it in imax.
It is gorgeous in imax.

Speaker 2 (03:12:51):
I see any final.

Speaker 5 (03:12:51):
Thoughts on this, it's just it's it's it's such a
beautiful movie and the fact that it works on so
many levels. Again, it's just a movie like this shouldn't
work the same way that a certain musical artists should
not be as big and popular as he is. But
because because it transcends so many like levels and layers,

(03:13:16):
that everybody on every level and layer can probably get
something out of it. And it sneaks it sneaks consciousness
into the into the mainstream, which is something that I mean,
we're all like basically around the same age. Who would
have thought at our at our young you know, in
our young ages that things like this could exist outside
of the little conversations we have in our dorm rooms

(03:13:38):
or in our apartments late at night like this is.
This is huge and I think that that I hope
that it ushers in, uh, the the reality that your
responsibility as a black artist is to speak to black
people and let they can listen if they want to.
But you're talking to black people, You're making art because
you love black people, you love black women, love black communities,

(03:14:01):
you love you love, you love us and are so
much that the only way you can show us is
beautifully yes, and and and and nuanced and depth. So
I just I just think it's.

Speaker 1 (03:14:11):
Important, and it's important that is Coogler, because Coogler's vision
is like that. And I just feel like there's so
many other directors who would have taken on a project
like this that would have fumbled the bag so many
different ways, and we would have just been talking about
those fumbles instead of like this story and what it means, Mike.

Speaker 2 (03:14:28):
Any of final thoughts.

Speaker 4 (03:14:30):
Final thault is y'all. Y'all know there's a there's a
theory there in music theory, right, There's like chords that
you can play on an instrument that if you're composing music,
if you hit certain chords, it can evoke certain emotions
like it's it's studied and true and tried and all that.

(03:14:51):
And I feel like, similar to what BOSSI was saying,
like when it comes to black folks, like as artists
and creator, I feel like we are all searching for
that chord for black people in particular, and Coogler hit
it like this movie is that chord that you play

(03:15:11):
and it's like you don't. I always talk about this
Donnie uh Donnie Hathaway song. Here's a song called giving
Up right and the first note he just hums hm hmmm,
and I'll just break down like he don't even I
don't even know what the song is about, you know
what I'm saying, because like when you first hear it,
because he's speaking to like the innermost uh your sensibilities,

(03:15:38):
like the your, your gut. And that's what this movie
was for me. And it's it's and I don't even
like it. I'm not I don't like to be hyperbolic.
I actually do, but I'm not be this one. It's
just it's just such an amazing uh portrayal and collection
of like pieces of art that speak to us as.

Speaker 5 (03:16:01):
It's just a perfect movie.

Speaker 1 (03:16:03):
And for me, I'll just say, man, like this to
me was everything about black African American black art, like
all the combinations that it took to create it, all
the pain that it takes, all the joy that it gives,
and all the ways that it allures other cultures and
the things they want to do to it, to commodify,
control it, to hold it down, you know, because even

(03:16:24):
the Klan coming to destroy the place is a symbol
in its own of like like Remick wants to take
it for himself, the Klan wants to destroy it. Period
they're burning books in the schools, and.

Speaker 3 (03:16:37):
So yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (03:16:39):
Good, especially in a time like this, to see a
black creator that sees the moment man like that, he
took a chance this there's another world, but it just
doesn't work out. So I'm very thankful for Ryan Cooler
and the team around him and just his worldview and
the inclusion and the collaboration with the community. And by community,

(03:17:03):
I don't just mean black people, I mean the community,
like talent or on this film is crazy like it's
and the fact that he was able to do this
outside of the studio system as far as like not
through Disney exactly getting his own rights to his movie
in twenty five years, a movie about black ownership. When

(03:17:23):
the fucking when, like the CEO or whatever the guy
is that runs HBO came out and used the words like, well,
it's a movie about black ownership, so no, we don't
have a problem with him owning it. I was like, oh,
Ryan Cooglan walked in that room and put his dick
on the table. He said somethings, Oh wow, yeah, oh yeah,
doc like because everyone was saying how like it's going

(03:17:45):
to destroy the studio system. And then whoever runs Max
or whatever HBO is called Warner Brothers. That dude came
out was like, actually, these deals are not that uncommon.
They have happened with more. Secondly, the theme of the
we felt it was appropriate because the movie is about
owning black art.

Speaker 3 (03:18:04):
I was like, oh he told them like like he
didn't like.

Speaker 5 (03:18:09):
Look like my face, like write this down.

Speaker 3 (03:18:11):
Yes, some of my.

Speaker 1 (03:18:12):
Favorite people, like I love I love Donald Glover. I
get it, y'all, don't. I don't give a fuck. I
love Donald Glover.

Speaker 3 (03:18:17):
But he tricked.

Speaker 1 (03:18:18):
Effects into doing Atlanta. Yes, he did like they He
didn't put them.

Speaker 3 (03:18:21):
Up on it.

Speaker 1 (03:18:22):
He just was like, I'm actually gonna make something about
black life and the soung and uh, I'll tell you
it's about a rappers.

Speaker 2 (03:18:29):
Yeah, fifty cent, I don't know name.

Speaker 5 (03:18:30):
Who do you know who's your favorite rapper?

Speaker 4 (03:18:34):
Future?

Speaker 1 (03:18:34):
It's about future And then he went, you're right. Then
he wouldn't made an absurdest take on you know, race
and love and everything in America. That's what this was.
Not that. This was him walking in the room and going,
this is my vision. And they fucking said, where do
we write the check for the for the money Because
even though and they also said they want to work
with him in the future, which I mean, of course,

(03:18:56):
but also like this is before they even was reporting
a This is when they were reporting the if he
used to make this much money, and they was like, yeah,
fuck whatever, y'all said, it's gonna make what we need
and he'll be back.

Speaker 6 (03:19:09):
Right, And this speaks more of the white people didn't
know where the money at and the white people that's
just talking because like all these critics and all these
people who didn't know and didn't exist, somebody somewhere up
there was like, hey, I see people talking about this,
and they was like, this movie gonna make money. Let's
go ahead and strap him in for several of the

(03:19:30):
movies he.

Speaker 2 (03:19:31):
Made Black Panther, Right, he what are we talking about?

Speaker 3 (03:19:36):
Creed?

Speaker 1 (03:19:37):
Like he all right, finally, can you guys tell the
people where to find your podcast?

Speaker 5 (03:19:50):
Okay, I'm not I'm still gonna throw it to you.
I just want to say something else about the movie
Best Director, Best Actor, Best Supporting Actor, Best Supporting Actress,
Best Original score, Like I want I want to clean sweet,
I want it all.

Speaker 2 (03:20:07):
And it's gonna be crazy. It's gonna be crazy.

Speaker 1 (03:20:11):
It's gonna be crazy on Twitter around this time, because
I'm telling y'all right now, this the one film every
black person did watch. And I don't even know what's
coming out the rest of the year, but I promise
you they didn't watch the other films.

Speaker 3 (03:20:26):
They did not so and they might it's.

Speaker 1 (03:20:29):
Gonna like it normally get crazy anyway when motherfucker's went,
like six of y'all saw Bill Street and y'all decided
that's the one. I'm talking about, one hundred percent of
black people saw Centers, and then zero of them will
have seen whatever the Holocaust movie of the year is, whatever,
the World War Two movie of the years, whatever the
the rock and roll are like bio pick is, It's

(03:20:51):
gonna be real racial. It's gonna be super clear.

Speaker 5 (03:21:00):
Tuber I just I saw the reaction to it. Who
is like known in like the Manisphere is known to
be like cooonish, but he gets people. Whatever he said
he didn't like the movie. I've never seen a human
being get attacked like this before. It's there to the
point where even your your favorite you, you yourself.

Speaker 1 (03:21:21):
Said you don't be going to movies like that. You've
gone to see this movie twice this is gonna be.

Speaker 5 (03:21:27):
I get to see it. I'm seeing it. I'm seeing
it this weekend, and I'll see it again after that.

Speaker 2 (03:21:31):
It's gonna be a problem. It's gonna be a problem.
Just telling you prepare yourself. That's all I'm saying. Prepare yourself.

Speaker 1 (03:21:39):
Nothing else on your for you page. It's gonna be
allegations of racism. That will be if I know the Academy, they.

Speaker 5 (03:21:49):
Will costume, behign, best cinematography, yes, clean, clean, sweet. I
don't hear anything else. Don't don't talk to me if
if the gaffer loses, it's.

Speaker 1 (03:21:58):
Up and the Holly will record her and the fucking
Variety will do those anonymous interviews with white people in
the academy who are like, I don't even know what
a Ryan Coogler is.

Speaker 2 (03:22:12):
I never saw a black panther.

Speaker 3 (03:22:15):
I hate, I hate.

Speaker 1 (03:22:16):
I didn't see black panthers because that black in the title.
It's like that they're gonna put those out and it's
gonna be a fucking race war on Twitter. I honest
to God, like Kaitlyn Clark gonna have to come out
and say something.

Speaker 3 (03:22:27):
It's just to calm them down.

Speaker 2 (03:22:30):
It's gonna be bad.

Speaker 1 (03:22:33):
Yeah, they're gonna have to get what's the newer page
Beckers page.

Speaker 3 (03:22:36):
Becker's gonna be out.

Speaker 2 (03:22:37):
There in her in her motherfucking.

Speaker 3 (03:22:42):
No, that's what I'm saying. She's gonna be.

Speaker 1 (03:22:44):
She gonna be out there in her nineteen nineties NBA
draft fit and be like and she's gonna be saying
singing Nero spirituals to talking about how married, Yeah, how
mad she is that the best grip didn't win like that.

Speaker 3 (03:23:00):
It's gonna be that's.

Speaker 1 (03:23:01):
It's gonna be a racial war line. I'm sign up.
I'm just telling y'all, right now, choose.

Speaker 5 (03:23:05):
Up, big up, pick a side.

Speaker 3 (03:23:07):
I'm already telling y'all I'm being very reasonable right now.

Speaker 6 (03:23:10):
And on top of that, who, like Rogie says, because
we're moving critics, who knows what else is gonna come.

Speaker 3 (03:23:15):
I don't even know what. But it don't even matter.

Speaker 4 (03:23:18):
But the nature, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (03:23:20):
By the nature of the law of averages, some movies
somewhere will do something better in some category in this movie.
And I'm telling you, I'm picking this movie because I'm black,
just putting it out there. I'm not trying to debate
it with you. I'm not even if you call me
on it. I'm gonna be like, Okay, and y'all pick white.

Speaker 3 (03:23:43):
Ship every time, all the time.

Speaker 1 (03:23:45):
Wes Anderson stayed coming out with stuff, the most quirkiest ship.

Speaker 2 (03:23:49):
Okay, now, Mike tell them what.

Speaker 4 (03:23:51):
I find said, the best nigga, the boom mic.

Speaker 2 (03:23:54):
Yeah, best best parking attendant. Let's go.

Speaker 5 (03:24:02):
Ye. I mean that's funny. But those hair cuts.

Speaker 2 (03:24:08):
Come on five. They was modern for looking. It was
modern for looking.

Speaker 1 (03:24:13):
What I'm saying, that's building.

Speaker 5 (03:24:18):
Want.

Speaker 3 (03:24:20):
I want it all. We deserve, we deserve it all.

Speaker 4 (03:24:29):
Oh my god, Well I just want to I just
want to thank you Rotten Karen just for having us
on providing us, you know, this space and opportunity to chat.
And I want to thank Bossy always, you know, publicly,
just you know, because you're dope and we're dope together,
and yes, we really are. And and uh, our podcast

(03:24:52):
is called the idea of. All of our episodes are
the idea of and then you know the content that
we're talking about. You can find us anywhere you find podcasts.
We're on Spotify, on Apple and everywhere else. We will
be you know, once we get our lighting and camera
straight we're gonna be on on all on YouTube, and

(03:25:14):
I g you'll see clips and we'll be going viral
and all that. We know we're gonna get there. We're
gonna get there. We'll get there. But no, just thank y'all.
The idea of and and this is you know, we
we're kinfolds. We're cousins right here, the four of us.
Like the way that y'all vibe. And I also want
to say, Bossy put me on to you all, and

(03:25:37):
I wasn't. I wasn't familiar, and I kicked myself for
so I'm back filling in all the episodes. I'm getting
to know y'all in real time. I text Bossy about
an hour before this show and I was like, wait, wait,
wait wait wait, and Karen I was like, what you mean,

(03:25:58):
just like the whole like it was just it's just dope, Like.

Speaker 2 (03:26:01):
We met it at juke joint.

Speaker 3 (03:26:03):
Her husband was husband was not a lasting about that night.
It was crazy. It was a wild night.

Speaker 4 (03:26:11):
It was vampires and white people. Thank y'all.

Speaker 5 (03:26:15):
I'm glad y'all can make it, made this guy for
being a great coach, And thank you Rod and Karen
of course, always, always, always none belive.

Speaker 3 (03:26:27):
We'll be back Saturday for feedback.

Speaker 1 (03:26:29):
I'm sure y'all have lots to say about this episode
among the others, so that probably be longest ship too, but.

Speaker 3 (03:26:34):
That is what it is.

Speaker 2 (03:26:35):
Talk to you then, until next time.

Speaker 3 (03:26:37):
I love you. I love you to

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