March 8, 2023 • 29 mins
Today host Louis Carr speaks with Charles Oakley, famous Chicago Bulls player and current BIG3 coach. He speaks to Louis about his career and his book, 'The Last Enforcer.'
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Luis cart host to the Blueprint Connect podcast. The
Blueprint Connect podcast is an extension of the Blueprint Men
something where we have consistently given men a prescription book
book not just for themselves, but also for their families
and their communities. During these podcasts, we will educate and
motivate our listeners about entrepreneurship, careers, finances, health and wellness
(00:26):
and relationship. Today's guests on the Blueprint Connect Podcast is
none other than the last Enforcing Charles Oakley. Welcome, Charles,
thank you, glad to be here, Glad to have you
so Charles, We're gonna jump right into it. Why did
(00:47):
you write a book? Why was it so important that
you write a book? To write a book, They've been
something in my mind for like last thirty year years
and know what I was playing to every tide, But
the book was something that from the heart, you know,
I want people to see. My walk of life wasn't
(01:09):
easy to get into the NBA or just every day life.
And from my grandparents, you know, brothers and people's friends
over years that you know a lot of stuff people
don't know about me in this book would tell you something.
The gentleman I am and the guy that people who
see on TV. There's two different people, like just a
(01:30):
guy who's giving a lot of love and a lot
of things to people. And I want to see people grow,
and I think some people are get a chance to grow.
And I think in this book, which showing people get
him like wow, you know that Charles Oakley wrote a
book and he puts stuff in and that people that
would believe in this book. So I'm just giving people
(01:50):
outlet like speak your mind, don't hold back, let him
have it. So so so Charles, I'm an author myself
and the book game it was hard. How did you
find writing the book? Was it easy or hard for you? Well?
I think that you know, from the growing up into
(02:11):
it at this point in my life, a lot of
stuff came easy because I was still all out here
playing ball, still dealing with people at a high level.
But it's just my detail. It's my story. And I
think a lot of people let other people right, they stirt,
but deep down the side and hard, that's my story
that from the beginning to end. I just have a
writer helped me out presenting my story. But it's a
(02:35):
strong story. And in this book, you know when you
people go out and get this book, they can really
see that. Yeah, it's hard, but the detail is so real.
And that's how I wanted my book to be. And
that's what I've been consistent in my life growing up,
NBA after NBA doing business. The people just gotta be
real when you're doing deals. You gotta be real in
(02:58):
office or whether you do the deal, all that on
the golf course. But you know, you just gonna know
what you want to write about it and you go
with it. So you grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, Uh,
tell us about your your your younger days and in
high school and uh, it's what we saw on the court.
(03:18):
Is that what they saw in high school? Or did
you kind of evolve over time? Um, it was a lot,
you know growing up in the city Cleveland back in
the eighties. You know send in the eighties, and you
know it was it was jumping like Chicago, Detroit and
all the mother West Cited people got a loan more
and I think once and your uncles and your aunts
(03:40):
and your brothers just to grow. I learned a lot
from it. We have a big family, so I was
learning as I was going. I always try to be
a kid not be able to you know, as you
grow you go into your to be a man, and
I would always listen more detailed type of guy. But
growing up in Cleveland, it was a lot of going
on in the streets and whenever I had to you know, mom,
(04:04):
single parents. You know, it was six of us back
and forth from Cleveland to Alabama. But she made it work.
You know, she worked two jobs. You know, it was
just I was then get in trouble knock on Wood
like some of my brothers and my sisters. But I
was in the mix of a lot of different things.
Every day could have happened, but some type of where
(04:27):
I stayed from it because I played two sports. Maybe
that helped me. I had to kiss two bus to school,
so I had to do the same thing back and forth,
two bus school, two bus home. But a couple of
days things happened. Could I could have turned and went
out away, but knock on Wood, I made it out.
I made it out. So Charles, when you were growing up,
(04:47):
you know, athletes were sort of this sort of special
special place people wanted you to be successful. Nowadays, athletes
kind of get involved in everything, you know, people pull
them into games, and things like that. How is it
that when you grew up you were still able to
separate yourself from that type of lifestyle and focus strictly
(05:11):
on the sports. Um, I don't know. I guess it
was about just my time. Mom was playing two sports.
I stayed busy. I see a lot of guys play.
I played football. I was betting football and basketball, and
so I stayed busy. I always had something to do,
(05:32):
had a job on the weekend. But a lot of
my guys growing up with me, and it was maybe
one sports or you know, doing this, doing that drugs
early in my life. My friends and neighbor was on it.
It was in the neighborhood. It was a lot of
bad stuff. But like I said, I ducked it. I
swear to guard it was there. Um you know, so
(05:55):
I think that when I duged that and went away
from college, you know, I was gonna for four years
a lot. I went to college a mother friend with
the penetentition. So because they was in the street, and
like I said, I see a lot of you know,
it was getting ten or fifteen years, twenty years. So
he missed a lot of my career in the NBA.
But I see a lot of them, you know, and
got out and got their set together, you know, having
(06:18):
a better life. But when we was growing up, he
was said, was Hector, tell us about your experience at
Virginia Union University. How did that go for you? So
that's a crazy experience. So my senior year in John
Hay High School, you know, you get all kind of
letters this and that. So the coach for Virginia Union
(06:40):
he knew this other guy, the female coach at the school,
and the female coach was from Cleveland, nained Tricky Tom,
and he was telling the coach about me, and uh
so he drove to Cleveland from Richard, Virginia and the
red pickup and met my mom and met family members,
came over business came to like you know, most time
(07:01):
your crew, you got to go through the you know, meeting,
meeting to read a couple of times with the coach
or the team. And I think that when I went
to visit, it was you know, it's a small school,
about twelve on this tifty on the student and my
thing in my mind, I just want to get out
of clear. I went to a couple of schools too
and visit, but I wanted to get away that I
(07:21):
couldn't just drive home on the weekend. And my friendly
signed a deal. So he's like eight hours from Cleveland.
And I went there and I had a great time there,
and you know, I know that my friends suit was
back in Cleveland. It was time for me to get it,
to get out because I know so later to keep
doing the wrong when this and that state has happened
and it wasn't happen for the better and happen for
(07:43):
the worst. So you had nineteen years in the NBA,
which is a hell of a career, planning for the Bulls,
the Knicks, Toronto, Houston Rockets. How did did you look
at your career as a business or did you look
(08:04):
at it it's just this is the sport that I loved.
How did you count of view your career when you
were playing? I mean, I think it was the seed
I think I was growing up loving basketball. Wasn't it
wasn't the thing. It was just something I was just
doing playing football to stay out of trouble, grow with life.
(08:26):
And as I got to college and got out, it
didn't hit me too maybe later in my career, because
you know, I was doing it I wasn't the best
skill guy, best you know, on the court, but I understood,
you know, like I said, I know what you're getting
into like football, I knew how to you know, playing
basketball it was getting into. So I think my under
(08:47):
communication to understand that the game got me where I'm
instead of this. My skill wasn't great, but I can
you know, I was tough minded, so you couldn't just
push me around. So but it all involved later and
you know, it just I just took it at I
gain't so much job. Let my grandfather said, I'm going
to work, come on going through the field. That's how
(09:08):
I took it. You know. I didn't cut no corners
because I wasn't scaled a cup corner like some guys.
It's better than other guys. Some guys don't have to
go through all the you know, practice four or five
hours a day. Our father had to. Some guys maybe
from practice twice a day. But at the end of
the day, I knew on the courtland in the football field,
(09:29):
how need somebody that places you can run right left
up the middle, so the court, same thing down the
middle of down the side. So one of the most
interesting things I read in the book Charles Is that
you had almost as many rebounds as you scored points
in your NBA career. I had never heard that. I
(09:53):
think it was like twelve thousand, two hundred rebounds and
twelve verses twelve thousand, four hundred or some points. So
clear you knew knew what your job was. So every
night when you went out, was it to be the
leading rebounder or was it just overall contribution to the
(10:15):
team A live both um. You know. I think when
you played with certain guys or Michael Jordan, Evince Garla
Patri newing the ball was not gonna be in your
hand for so many times, such when I got drafted
in Chicago and might have joined us there, so Quinn
Dale and Lennon Wood, I had to take a stand
in college at twenty five. Look at me, I go
(10:37):
to the NBA at twenty five. Maybe had you know
what I'm saying. So my thing I wasn't one of
these guys couldn't adjust. I adjusted my game to be
a more of a team player. The small you know guards,
or the way you gotta take your shot that we
battled a defense. So I didn't never think about scoring
or whatever I think about saying tough defense, rebounder, but
(10:59):
when you're on the court, when I had a charge
the NBA the rebound score, and I think when you
play with superstars on your team and you know that
you knew to the team. My thing was I got
to lead, played my role, no my craft, and I
want to be on the floor. So I'm doing whatever
take to be on the floor. Because I came from
a history of black college, Virginia Union, small black school
(11:21):
and Richard, Virginia. So my thing is number one was
I was glad to get drafting the top team from
a black college, and then they said, no one ever
got drafted the top team from a small school like that,
and so I had to really show that I knew
how to play, I understand the game, and I know
I played with a lot of guys on the All
Star teams that they went to a bigger school. But
(11:44):
the IQ was like mine. We'll be right back with
more of my interview after this quick break. So Charles,
for the people listening to this podcast, what what you
(12:05):
say is more important to your success, motivation or discipline.
I talked to a lot of athletes and I say,
how do you stay motivated, and a lot of them
say I don't. I'm just disciplined. So for you, what
was the most important thing? That's definitely discipline because my
thing I was a hard worker. So it wasn't like
(12:26):
you were gonna work me. You might have more skill
than me and had understanding the game, so definitely work hard.
Its my you know what kept me going because I
knew how to want and you don't have to call
me to get up. You had to call me to
be on time. I think I was late maybe twice
in eighteen years. So you're the point of I need.
(12:47):
Some guys need that coaches to keep getting you know,
the moments they give me. I think some underscally a
weekly to the team because the coaching ain't on the
court with trying to make a decision. You got to
be thank you smart enough to make it. So for
some people, I guess some people need it. Some people
look sowfer so I guess they need that. You know,
I think it's a weaknity somebody who's got to get
(13:07):
your job, somebody that people emphastide me what to do?
You know? So I coached the victory basketball right now
for ice Cube the new league started, So I get
on the guys because my thing is they say to
a point guard, they say a score, and they don't
do the thing in a score, and the point guard
do on a consistent basis, so that you know, show
me that you know they need to be getting from
(13:29):
attention sometimes because when they go out to wait sometimes
that's bad for the team. So in every industry, charge
people talk about teamwork and being a great team member.
How did you develop that skill to be just a
great team player will great question, But for me just
(13:51):
being a strong minded coming in doing what you got
to do as a rookie, as anybody like trying for
football or whatever. The kids we were trying to find ourself.
After the NBA game, you come in for its time
courses and all the little things that they're gonna pick
up woopiats, and you can pass the test of that
(14:12):
and then hold your own against the guys there and
let them know that there's no nonsense. You're not here
just because the back. You know, I want to start
and when I bring the intensively every day in practice,
some people came heling it because some guys used to
you give them everything. It's Okay, now don the force
with me on the court in practice every day, I'm
(14:34):
trying to take your spot. So that's why I came in.
And then I just the leadership, just like I said,
being on time, doing stuff accurate around the guys, doing
your craft on the court. And I think that people
look at you just to see what you know. So
over the course of your career, Charles, I mean, nineteen
years is a long time. What did you have to
(14:56):
reinvent as part of your game? What did you have
to do differently? Probably the last five years that was
different than the first five years. Well, my game is
about showing up, bringing energy and motivated on the help
of my being a leader for my teammates, for reinvent myself.
(15:17):
I'm just my jump shot got better from college, my
free throws got better. They saw that I could play
the game at a high level, so they were worried
about me. But we revent in myself. I didn't have
to do that because I fooled him. I was consistently
what I was doing. And that's a great question to
a lot of guys. Can't reinvent itself. And you see
(15:40):
the greatest guy in course now Lebron at the high level.
You know, they thought knowing what he can play when
you're doing eight teams when he was an average twenty
five points eight rebound, nine assists. No, I've never done that,
and he's showing it. To take care of your body
in your mind and just know your crap, you can
do it. So in my office you can't. You can't
(16:03):
see it, Charles. On the outside of the glass, I
have the word and about two feet tall letters growth,
and I put it on there several years ago and
people pass and they just stare at it. But no
one ever asked me about it. So I don't know
if the word is intimidating people or whatever. But when
(16:24):
you have a long career, you consistently grow talk of it.
Is that a vision or desire that the great players have? Um,
it's all about timing. It's like, you know, they invent
new cars all the time. Tests and you know they
got the you know, like different cards and come out.
(16:47):
So my thing is but growth is the guy's coming
out and do what you can do. Sometimes they can't
replace you, so you can stay around for a while.
And I think that's what kept me in going the
company and the toughness and being a leader and hold
myself account. You know, they said the bad things about me.
Oh he don't listen, he this and that. But my
(17:07):
thing is, I said, ain't every role you're going out
on ain't smooth. So they're gonna be some people. They're
gonna talk about you. But my thing is you don't
let them break you. You know, they have to talk
about you and see can you take it? You know,
I said, talking is what I do, but I don't
talk to us. I have to some people talk just
to be talking. I don't. So you know, we hear
(17:30):
comparisons all the time. M J and Lebron who in
today's world? What you say is the twenty twenty two
Charles Oak who played another good question. I don't think
no one played the way I played. But if I
(17:52):
had to give anybody the blueprint the team that wins
the way he played in Draymond got a high jump on,
he got a great shooter, but he bring that to nasty.
He framing leadership. He framed toughness every night, and I think,
you know, people get down on him because when you
can't haveage triple double average eight triple doubles you gotta
(18:15):
have double figures. You know, they try to joke about them.
But at the end of the day, he got four rings.
Great career. Um, I just seen him and Lebron. You
know Lebron had offended for the fourth and we was
over there. But I get that course on a line,
I said Draymond. He bringed what his team needs and
(18:36):
that's what all important to game. That's what I did.
I probably enagy Elfats toughness no matter where I went.
I wasn't the best steal guy, but I made it happen.
And then what Drey do? He made it happen for
the Warriors. Who will be right back with more of
my interview after this quick break. Now we learned in
(19:03):
the book Charles along the way somehow someway you learn
how to cook? Yeah, when did When did the cooking start?
And who talked to you how to cook? Well cooking?
I'm the pickers guy. Ever, you know, as you go
out with mics, I'm the teammate. They just like, let
me order first, you ort to land. But the cookings
come from the cooking come from being on the road
(19:27):
all the time. Let me go back home and most time,
most none of the send the guys in the NBA
we'll eat on the road. They eat at home. So
I wanted to change that. I want to, you know,
pick up little things growing up. So I just started
cooking and done out this and that. It started getting
better by the guys out, they start getting better Christmas
things give it. But I'm a guy asked a lot
(19:49):
of I asked a lot of courses about food when
I'm out. So my thing is I learned how to
ask courses. I learned what technique like how you cook
food for us? Some food a lot of seasons. Food
don't the time, and you can't cook food up how.
You you can bar wall up how, but you can't
cook your food up. So once you knowing the balance
of cooking the meats and the meets and the side,
(20:12):
keeping the nutritions in your vessels, and you know, just
just start doing it. And you know, you fought to
get Like I said, I played an eighteen years, so
I shouldn't know what's going on anything about NBA goal.
I shouldn't know about that. Over the food. Once you
started grow with it and stay with it, That's what
I did. I stayed with it and it ain't nothing.
(20:34):
I can't cook now, So did you read books, did
you go to the internet, or did you go to
your mama? Did you sort of get a foundation of
knowing what things to do and not what not to do? Well?
First started I asked questions, you know, uh, and then
just asking you know, you started doing the breakfast, start
(20:56):
doing the lunch, starting the burgers forgets, you know they
like you said, you ask quisons. And then once you
get once you stew it so much often like practice,
once you get it down, you know as you go.
I think that the season, some fool, is tough to season.
You gotta know more you cook anxious season coming to
play or some people. You know, you just sprinkle a
(21:18):
little this. Now you could with twenty people, and so
the season had to get more. Season of the food
because special baking. But I ask a lot of quits
about food, you know, desserts and stuff. Desserts is tough
to cook, but I can do them. What is your
goal to meals? Wow? So to go to meal? If
(21:39):
you want to breakfast lunch of dinner, I said, I
could be a good dinner meal. I have a sea
bad with pineapple resulting rice with craybad. String beans in
dinner roles and then a bread pudding for dessert. Oh wow, okay,
that that sounds great. Yeah, I heard Charles that you
(22:00):
can cook a mean turkey burger. Now, you know, turkey
burgers is kind of special because dry. But what is
the key to not having a dry turkey burger? Well,
you got a season in a get with your sauce
in it, something to make it moist, and when you're
cooking it, you don't have to mash it. It's just
(22:21):
gonna sweat. So basically, you know, basically, it ain't so
many ways to cook it, you know, anybody. Some people
who are mustand and some people who put you know,
just got black pepper'll see so uh. Some people can
put a little stick sauce in it, so anything to
keep it looks moist and the brain flame turkey meat.
(22:41):
It is hard to season. Sometimes you have to know
what you're doing stuff. And you know, like lazagna, meat loaf, um,
so yes, so on a turkey burger, how long should
you cook it? Is it five minutes? Ten minutes? How
long she's that burger big on that ground? Good question too?
(23:02):
It's corn I think it is. Some people like mc
corn pound, you know, four to pound burger, But I
don't make mind that. Think So basically, if I'm cooking
my home, say four or five minutes aside up high,
meet them high. You don't want to overdo it because
you gotta turn over that it cook the same the
(23:23):
same amount of time. Some people might cook it two
or three minute high and put an oven in for
five or six minute and let the fish cooking. Get
this seer okay, But you don't want to smash it.
That's the key. Do not know on the way you
want to smash it a little bit if you're gonna
put it in the oven and make it look like
a burger like some people like a profession at a restaurant.
(23:45):
So you can smash it a little on both sides
and put an oven for seven eight minutes, but you
don't want to smatch it too much. Got so, so, Charles,
you've convinced us that you were a great ball player.
Now you've convinced us you're a great cook. What are
some of the common things between the two that gave
(24:08):
you success in both areas? NBA and in another? Good questions,
I think that no one doing your craft, I mean
basketball you know you started playing with the kid. Everybody's
driven shoot. But then once you get an eld enough
through you define your skill level. And then the kitchen
(24:30):
the same thing. You learn and ask questions, and then
when you get to a level that you know, I'll
still ask questions. And cooking is always something to learn
because basketball can't go ninety four and fishes sell across,
so when you're in the kitchen, it's always new dishes.
Basketball can't do with so much creation, So I think
(24:51):
any kitchen you can create a lot of dishes. Everybody
now is changing dishes around the cooking a different ways.
So I love the cooking. And then ball just came
easy because I was a student of the game, which
your student the game and women the best athlete. But
I played nineteen years because I understood the game and
I made guys better. I was a leader, and I
(25:11):
had guys. I always had guys back on my team.
So Charles final question. We're always trying to impact and
influence young men to lead their best life, and we're
hoping that a lot of young men is listening to
this bodycact. What advice would you give them as they
(25:34):
try to navigate today's environment, whether they're in school or
what are the industry. What advice would you give young men?
I will tell a young man it's tough because it's
so many things have changed from them. I was growing up,
the walk of life, the discipline they had to obey,
he had to do this, and you had to be
(25:56):
you know, listen to whoever older person would give you advice, cousin, grandparents,
no matter what. But that's a little different. Things that
happened and more stuff. A got more crazy industries, so
it's more. I think it's way more single parents. Um
you know, parents got to be four kids, one mom,
one day or whatever. I think when we was growing up,
(26:18):
grandparents took a like big toll for my mother because
you watched this a lot, even though my mother trying
to make the ends meet. But I think that these
kids now they watching themselves. They have some Sometimes some
kids will have people in the house with them, and
sometimes things happen here. So I'm real incident with kids
they play with gon they watch the wrong thing on TV.
(26:40):
And when I was we only had one or two channels,
so we weren't watching not the wrong TV. Wants the news,
maybe one show now they're gonna watch one hundred shows
on TV. But my thing is that's just trying to
keep struggling some kind of struggle. Don't worry about the
struggle life, gets some positive things in your life knowing
that you know, hey things, it's not easy. You gotta
(27:02):
put something to get something out. And I think it's
harder for the parents to raise kids now because there's
so many ways big and social media. Go on line,
got kids five or six years old and Google whatever
you can do goals and I think that this is
gonna be positive. And when you're with someone, trying to
always know the person inside it out because people now
(27:24):
it's hanging with people they don't know, they say with
them because they might be in a game, might this,
and that you might be in a car with a
guy who goes to the store. This guy just shot
somebody last week. Now they sue the whole car. There's
so much stead of happening in Chicago. You hear about that.
But I just try to tell the kids and try
to growth within yourself, show your parents are gonna be
to get kids, and hopefully that you can go a
(27:45):
good kid, go to college and show them and be
successful in the business world. Everybody can't play sports, lawyer,
a doctor'll be some kind of politician, but grow up
to be a grown man. Well, thank you so much, Charles.
It's called the last enforcing Yes. And we appreciate everything
(28:08):
that you have done. We appreciate the things that you're
all doing. And keep at it, man, keep appreciate it
relevant to our young people. Look thank you so much
for your contribution to the Blueprint Man Summit, and look
forward to continuing our conversation. Thanks for having me, Thanks
for giving me a chance to talk about my book.
(28:30):
For thanks in life. And like I said, the young generation,
I got some eye eye with them because they show
me a lot of love. And I always try to
shoot kids, motivate them to do some little things and
make them look up and say wow, you know. I
hope they can change their life and get on track.
It's all I try to do, get them on the
right track. Than you appreciate it,
I'm Luis cart host to the Blueprint Connect podcast. The
Blueprint Connect podcast is an extension of the Blueprint Men
something where we have consistently given men a prescription book
book not just for themselves, but also for their families
and their communities. During these podcasts, we will educate and
motivate our listeners about entrepreneurship, careers, finances, health and wellness
(00:26):
and relationship. Today's guests on the Blueprint Connect Podcast is
none other than the last Enforcing Charles Oakley. Welcome, Charles,
thank you, glad to be here, Glad to have you
so Charles, We're gonna jump right into it. Why did
(00:47):
you write a book? Why was it so important that
you write a book? To write a book, They've been
something in my mind for like last thirty year years
and know what I was playing to every tide, But
the book was something that from the heart, you know,
I want people to see. My walk of life wasn't
(01:09):
easy to get into the NBA or just every day life.
And from my grandparents, you know, brothers and people's friends
over years that you know a lot of stuff people
don't know about me in this book would tell you something.
The gentleman I am and the guy that people who
see on TV. There's two different people, like just a
(01:30):
guy who's giving a lot of love and a lot
of things to people. And I want to see people grow,
and I think some people are get a chance to grow.
And I think in this book, which showing people get
him like wow, you know that Charles Oakley wrote a
book and he puts stuff in and that people that
would believe in this book. So I'm just giving people
(01:50):
outlet like speak your mind, don't hold back, let him
have it. So so so Charles, I'm an author myself
and the book game it was hard. How did you
find writing the book? Was it easy or hard for you? Well?
I think that you know, from the growing up into
(02:11):
it at this point in my life, a lot of
stuff came easy because I was still all out here
playing ball, still dealing with people at a high level.
But it's just my detail. It's my story. And I
think a lot of people let other people right, they stirt,
but deep down the side and hard, that's my story
that from the beginning to end. I just have a
writer helped me out presenting my story. But it's a
(02:35):
strong story. And in this book, you know when you
people go out and get this book, they can really
see that. Yeah, it's hard, but the detail is so real.
And that's how I wanted my book to be. And
that's what I've been consistent in my life growing up,
NBA after NBA doing business. The people just gotta be
real when you're doing deals. You gotta be real in
(02:58):
office or whether you do the deal, all that on
the golf course. But you know, you just gonna know
what you want to write about it and you go
with it. So you grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, Uh,
tell us about your your your younger days and in
high school and uh, it's what we saw on the court.
(03:18):
Is that what they saw in high school? Or did
you kind of evolve over time? Um, it was a lot,
you know growing up in the city Cleveland back in
the eighties. You know send in the eighties, and you
know it was it was jumping like Chicago, Detroit and
all the mother West Cited people got a loan more
and I think once and your uncles and your aunts
(03:40):
and your brothers just to grow. I learned a lot
from it. We have a big family, so I was
learning as I was going. I always try to be
a kid not be able to you know, as you
grow you go into your to be a man, and
I would always listen more detailed type of guy. But
growing up in Cleveland, it was a lot of going
on in the streets and whenever I had to you know, mom,
(04:04):
single parents. You know, it was six of us back
and forth from Cleveland to Alabama. But she made it work.
You know, she worked two jobs. You know, it was
just I was then get in trouble knock on Wood
like some of my brothers and my sisters. But I
was in the mix of a lot of different things.
Every day could have happened, but some type of where
(04:27):
I stayed from it because I played two sports. Maybe
that helped me. I had to kiss two bus to school,
so I had to do the same thing back and forth,
two bus school, two bus home. But a couple of
days things happened. Could I could have turned and went
out away, but knock on Wood, I made it out.
I made it out. So Charles, when you were growing up,
(04:47):
you know, athletes were sort of this sort of special
special place people wanted you to be successful. Nowadays, athletes
kind of get involved in everything, you know, people pull
them into games, and things like that. How is it
that when you grew up you were still able to
separate yourself from that type of lifestyle and focus strictly
(05:11):
on the sports. Um, I don't know. I guess it
was about just my time. Mom was playing two sports.
I stayed busy. I see a lot of guys play.
I played football. I was betting football and basketball, and
so I stayed busy. I always had something to do,
(05:32):
had a job on the weekend. But a lot of
my guys growing up with me, and it was maybe
one sports or you know, doing this, doing that drugs
early in my life. My friends and neighbor was on it.
It was in the neighborhood. It was a lot of
bad stuff. But like I said, I ducked it. I
swear to guard it was there. Um you know, so
(05:55):
I think that when I duged that and went away
from college, you know, I was gonna for four years
a lot. I went to college a mother friend with
the penetentition. So because they was in the street, and
like I said, I see a lot of you know,
it was getting ten or fifteen years, twenty years. So
he missed a lot of my career in the NBA.
But I see a lot of them, you know, and
got out and got their set together, you know, having
(06:18):
a better life. But when we was growing up, he
was said, was Hector, tell us about your experience at
Virginia Union University. How did that go for you? So
that's a crazy experience. So my senior year in John
Hay High School, you know, you get all kind of
letters this and that. So the coach for Virginia Union
(06:40):
he knew this other guy, the female coach at the school,
and the female coach was from Cleveland, nained Tricky Tom,
and he was telling the coach about me, and uh
so he drove to Cleveland from Richard, Virginia and the
red pickup and met my mom and met family members,
came over business came to like you know, most time
(07:01):
your crew, you got to go through the you know, meeting,
meeting to read a couple of times with the coach
or the team. And I think that when I went
to visit, it was you know, it's a small school,
about twelve on this tifty on the student and my
thing in my mind, I just want to get out
of clear. I went to a couple of schools too
and visit, but I wanted to get away that I
(07:21):
couldn't just drive home on the weekend. And my friendly
signed a deal. So he's like eight hours from Cleveland.
And I went there and I had a great time there,
and you know, I know that my friends suit was
back in Cleveland. It was time for me to get it,
to get out because I know so later to keep
doing the wrong when this and that state has happened
and it wasn't happen for the better and happen for
(07:43):
the worst. So you had nineteen years in the NBA,
which is a hell of a career, planning for the Bulls,
the Knicks, Toronto, Houston Rockets. How did did you look
at your career as a business or did you look
(08:04):
at it it's just this is the sport that I loved.
How did you count of view your career when you
were playing? I mean, I think it was the seed
I think I was growing up loving basketball. Wasn't it
wasn't the thing. It was just something I was just
doing playing football to stay out of trouble, grow with life.
(08:26):
And as I got to college and got out, it
didn't hit me too maybe later in my career, because
you know, I was doing it I wasn't the best
skill guy, best you know, on the court, but I understood,
you know, like I said, I know what you're getting
into like football, I knew how to you know, playing
basketball it was getting into. So I think my under
(08:47):
communication to understand that the game got me where I'm
instead of this. My skill wasn't great, but I can
you know, I was tough minded, so you couldn't just
push me around. So but it all involved later and
you know, it just I just took it at I
gain't so much job. Let my grandfather said, I'm going
to work, come on going through the field. That's how
(09:08):
I took it. You know. I didn't cut no corners
because I wasn't scaled a cup corner like some guys.
It's better than other guys. Some guys don't have to
go through all the you know, practice four or five
hours a day. Our father had to. Some guys maybe
from practice twice a day. But at the end of
the day, I knew on the courtland in the football field,
(09:29):
how need somebody that places you can run right left
up the middle, so the court, same thing down the
middle of down the side. So one of the most
interesting things I read in the book Charles Is that
you had almost as many rebounds as you scored points
in your NBA career. I had never heard that. I
(09:53):
think it was like twelve thousand, two hundred rebounds and
twelve verses twelve thousand, four hundred or some points. So
clear you knew knew what your job was. So every
night when you went out, was it to be the
leading rebounder or was it just overall contribution to the
(10:15):
team A live both um. You know. I think when
you played with certain guys or Michael Jordan, Evince Garla
Patri newing the ball was not gonna be in your
hand for so many times, such when I got drafted
in Chicago and might have joined us there, so Quinn
Dale and Lennon Wood, I had to take a stand
in college at twenty five. Look at me, I go
(10:37):
to the NBA at twenty five. Maybe had you know
what I'm saying. So my thing I wasn't one of
these guys couldn't adjust. I adjusted my game to be
a more of a team player. The small you know guards,
or the way you gotta take your shot that we
battled a defense. So I didn't never think about scoring
or whatever I think about saying tough defense, rebounder, but
(10:59):
when you're on the court, when I had a charge
the NBA the rebound score, and I think when you
play with superstars on your team and you know that
you knew to the team. My thing was I got
to lead, played my role, no my craft, and I
want to be on the floor. So I'm doing whatever
take to be on the floor. Because I came from
a history of black college, Virginia Union, small black school
(11:21):
and Richard, Virginia. So my thing is number one was
I was glad to get drafting the top team from
a black college, and then they said, no one ever
got drafted the top team from a small school like that,
and so I had to really show that I knew
how to play, I understand the game, and I know
I played with a lot of guys on the All
Star teams that they went to a bigger school. But
(11:44):
the IQ was like mine. We'll be right back with
more of my interview after this quick break. So Charles,
for the people listening to this podcast, what what you
(12:05):
say is more important to your success, motivation or discipline.
I talked to a lot of athletes and I say,
how do you stay motivated, and a lot of them
say I don't. I'm just disciplined. So for you, what
was the most important thing? That's definitely discipline because my
thing I was a hard worker. So it wasn't like
(12:26):
you were gonna work me. You might have more skill
than me and had understanding the game, so definitely work hard.
Its my you know what kept me going because I
knew how to want and you don't have to call
me to get up. You had to call me to
be on time. I think I was late maybe twice
in eighteen years. So you're the point of I need.
(12:47):
Some guys need that coaches to keep getting you know,
the moments they give me. I think some underscally a
weekly to the team because the coaching ain't on the
court with trying to make a decision. You got to
be thank you smart enough to make it. So for
some people, I guess some people need it. Some people
look sowfer so I guess they need that. You know,
I think it's a weaknity somebody who's got to get
(13:07):
your job, somebody that people emphastide me what to do?
You know? So I coached the victory basketball right now
for ice Cube the new league started, So I get
on the guys because my thing is they say to
a point guard, they say a score, and they don't
do the thing in a score, and the point guard
do on a consistent basis, so that you know, show
me that you know they need to be getting from
(13:29):
attention sometimes because when they go out to wait sometimes
that's bad for the team. So in every industry, charge
people talk about teamwork and being a great team member.
How did you develop that skill to be just a
great team player will great question, But for me just
(13:51):
being a strong minded coming in doing what you got
to do as a rookie, as anybody like trying for
football or whatever. The kids we were trying to find ourself.
After the NBA game, you come in for its time
courses and all the little things that they're gonna pick
up woopiats, and you can pass the test of that
(14:12):
and then hold your own against the guys there and
let them know that there's no nonsense. You're not here
just because the back. You know, I want to start
and when I bring the intensively every day in practice,
some people came heling it because some guys used to
you give them everything. It's Okay, now don the force
with me on the court in practice every day, I'm
(14:34):
trying to take your spot. So that's why I came in.
And then I just the leadership, just like I said,
being on time, doing stuff accurate around the guys, doing
your craft on the court. And I think that people
look at you just to see what you know. So
over the course of your career, Charles, I mean, nineteen
years is a long time. What did you have to
(14:56):
reinvent as part of your game? What did you have
to do differently? Probably the last five years that was
different than the first five years. Well, my game is
about showing up, bringing energy and motivated on the help
of my being a leader for my teammates, for reinvent myself.
(15:17):
I'm just my jump shot got better from college, my
free throws got better. They saw that I could play
the game at a high level, so they were worried
about me. But we revent in myself. I didn't have
to do that because I fooled him. I was consistently
what I was doing. And that's a great question to
a lot of guys. Can't reinvent itself. And you see
(15:40):
the greatest guy in course now Lebron at the high level.
You know, they thought knowing what he can play when
you're doing eight teams when he was an average twenty
five points eight rebound, nine assists. No, I've never done that,
and he's showing it. To take care of your body
in your mind and just know your crap, you can
do it. So in my office you can't. You can't
(16:03):
see it, Charles. On the outside of the glass, I
have the word and about two feet tall letters growth,
and I put it on there several years ago and
people pass and they just stare at it. But no
one ever asked me about it. So I don't know
if the word is intimidating people or whatever. But when
(16:24):
you have a long career, you consistently grow talk of it.
Is that a vision or desire that the great players have? Um,
it's all about timing. It's like, you know, they invent
new cars all the time. Tests and you know they
got the you know, like different cards and come out.
(16:47):
So my thing is but growth is the guy's coming
out and do what you can do. Sometimes they can't
replace you, so you can stay around for a while.
And I think that's what kept me in going the
company and the toughness and being a leader and hold
myself account. You know, they said the bad things about me.
Oh he don't listen, he this and that. But my
(17:07):
thing is, I said, ain't every role you're going out
on ain't smooth. So they're gonna be some people. They're
gonna talk about you. But my thing is you don't
let them break you. You know, they have to talk
about you and see can you take it? You know,
I said, talking is what I do, but I don't
talk to us. I have to some people talk just
to be talking. I don't. So you know, we hear
(17:30):
comparisons all the time. M J and Lebron who in
today's world? What you say is the twenty twenty two
Charles Oak who played another good question. I don't think
no one played the way I played. But if I
(17:52):
had to give anybody the blueprint the team that wins
the way he played in Draymond got a high jump on,
he got a great shooter, but he bring that to nasty.
He framing leadership. He framed toughness every night, and I think,
you know, people get down on him because when you
can't haveage triple double average eight triple doubles you gotta
(18:15):
have double figures. You know, they try to joke about them.
But at the end of the day, he got four rings.
Great career. Um, I just seen him and Lebron. You
know Lebron had offended for the fourth and we was
over there. But I get that course on a line,
I said Draymond. He bringed what his team needs and
(18:36):
that's what all important to game. That's what I did.
I probably enagy Elfats toughness no matter where I went.
I wasn't the best steal guy, but I made it happen.
And then what Drey do? He made it happen for
the Warriors. Who will be right back with more of
my interview after this quick break. Now we learned in
(19:03):
the book Charles along the way somehow someway you learn
how to cook? Yeah, when did When did the cooking start?
And who talked to you how to cook? Well cooking?
I'm the pickers guy. Ever, you know, as you go
out with mics, I'm the teammate. They just like, let
me order first, you ort to land. But the cookings
come from the cooking come from being on the road
(19:27):
all the time. Let me go back home and most time,
most none of the send the guys in the NBA
we'll eat on the road. They eat at home. So
I wanted to change that. I want to, you know,
pick up little things growing up. So I just started
cooking and done out this and that. It started getting
better by the guys out, they start getting better Christmas
things give it. But I'm a guy asked a lot
(19:49):
of I asked a lot of courses about food when
I'm out. So my thing is I learned how to
ask courses. I learned what technique like how you cook
food for us? Some food a lot of seasons. Food
don't the time, and you can't cook food up how.
You you can bar wall up how, but you can't
cook your food up. So once you knowing the balance
of cooking the meats and the meets and the side,
(20:12):
keeping the nutritions in your vessels, and you know, just
just start doing it. And you know, you fought to
get Like I said, I played an eighteen years, so
I shouldn't know what's going on anything about NBA goal.
I shouldn't know about that. Over the food. Once you
started grow with it and stay with it, That's what
I did. I stayed with it and it ain't nothing.
(20:34):
I can't cook now, So did you read books, did
you go to the internet, or did you go to
your mama? Did you sort of get a foundation of
knowing what things to do and not what not to do? Well?
First started I asked questions, you know, uh, and then
just asking you know, you started doing the breakfast, start
(20:56):
doing the lunch, starting the burgers forgets, you know they
like you said, you ask quisons. And then once you
get once you stew it so much often like practice,
once you get it down, you know as you go.
I think that the season, some fool, is tough to season.
You gotta know more you cook anxious season coming to
play or some people. You know, you just sprinkle a
(21:18):
little this. Now you could with twenty people, and so
the season had to get more. Season of the food
because special baking. But I ask a lot of quits
about food, you know, desserts and stuff. Desserts is tough
to cook, but I can do them. What is your
goal to meals? Wow? So to go to meal? If
(21:39):
you want to breakfast lunch of dinner, I said, I
could be a good dinner meal. I have a sea
bad with pineapple resulting rice with craybad. String beans in
dinner roles and then a bread pudding for dessert. Oh wow, okay,
that that sounds great. Yeah, I heard Charles that you
(22:00):
can cook a mean turkey burger. Now, you know, turkey
burgers is kind of special because dry. But what is
the key to not having a dry turkey burger? Well,
you got a season in a get with your sauce
in it, something to make it moist, and when you're
cooking it, you don't have to mash it. It's just
(22:21):
gonna sweat. So basically, you know, basically, it ain't so
many ways to cook it, you know, anybody. Some people
who are mustand and some people who put you know,
just got black pepper'll see so uh. Some people can
put a little stick sauce in it, so anything to
keep it looks moist and the brain flame turkey meat.
(22:41):
It is hard to season. Sometimes you have to know
what you're doing stuff. And you know, like lazagna, meat loaf, um,
so yes, so on a turkey burger, how long should
you cook it? Is it five minutes? Ten minutes? How
long she's that burger big on that ground? Good question too?
(23:02):
It's corn I think it is. Some people like mc
corn pound, you know, four to pound burger, But I
don't make mind that. Think So basically, if I'm cooking
my home, say four or five minutes aside up high,
meet them high. You don't want to overdo it because
you gotta turn over that it cook the same the
(23:23):
same amount of time. Some people might cook it two
or three minute high and put an oven in for
five or six minute and let the fish cooking. Get
this seer okay, But you don't want to smash it.
That's the key. Do not know on the way you
want to smash it a little bit if you're gonna
put it in the oven and make it look like
a burger like some people like a profession at a restaurant.
(23:45):
So you can smash it a little on both sides
and put an oven for seven eight minutes, but you
don't want to smatch it too much. Got so, so, Charles,
you've convinced us that you were a great ball player.
Now you've convinced us you're a great cook. What are
some of the common things between the two that gave
(24:08):
you success in both areas? NBA and in another? Good questions,
I think that no one doing your craft, I mean
basketball you know you started playing with the kid. Everybody's
driven shoot. But then once you get an eld enough
through you define your skill level. And then the kitchen
(24:30):
the same thing. You learn and ask questions, and then
when you get to a level that you know, I'll
still ask questions. And cooking is always something to learn
because basketball can't go ninety four and fishes sell across,
so when you're in the kitchen, it's always new dishes.
Basketball can't do with so much creation, So I think
(24:51):
any kitchen you can create a lot of dishes. Everybody
now is changing dishes around the cooking a different ways.
So I love the cooking. And then ball just came
easy because I was a student of the game, which
your student the game and women the best athlete. But
I played nineteen years because I understood the game and
I made guys better. I was a leader, and I
(25:11):
had guys. I always had guys back on my team.
So Charles final question. We're always trying to impact and
influence young men to lead their best life, and we're
hoping that a lot of young men is listening to
this bodycact. What advice would you give them as they
(25:34):
try to navigate today's environment, whether they're in school or
what are the industry. What advice would you give young men?
I will tell a young man it's tough because it's
so many things have changed from them. I was growing up,
the walk of life, the discipline they had to obey,
he had to do this, and you had to be
(25:56):
you know, listen to whoever older person would give you advice, cousin, grandparents,
no matter what. But that's a little different. Things that
happened and more stuff. A got more crazy industries, so
it's more. I think it's way more single parents. Um
you know, parents got to be four kids, one mom,
one day or whatever. I think when we was growing up,
(26:18):
grandparents took a like big toll for my mother because
you watched this a lot, even though my mother trying
to make the ends meet. But I think that these
kids now they watching themselves. They have some Sometimes some
kids will have people in the house with them, and
sometimes things happen here. So I'm real incident with kids
they play with gon they watch the wrong thing on TV.
(26:40):
And when I was we only had one or two channels,
so we weren't watching not the wrong TV. Wants the news,
maybe one show now they're gonna watch one hundred shows
on TV. But my thing is that's just trying to
keep struggling some kind of struggle. Don't worry about the
struggle life, gets some positive things in your life knowing
that you know, hey things, it's not easy. You gotta
(27:02):
put something to get something out. And I think it's
harder for the parents to raise kids now because there's
so many ways big and social media. Go on line,
got kids five or six years old and Google whatever
you can do goals and I think that this is
gonna be positive. And when you're with someone, trying to
always know the person inside it out because people now
(27:24):
it's hanging with people they don't know, they say with
them because they might be in a game, might this,
and that you might be in a car with a
guy who goes to the store. This guy just shot
somebody last week. Now they sue the whole car. There's
so much stead of happening in Chicago. You hear about that.
But I just try to tell the kids and try
to growth within yourself, show your parents are gonna be
to get kids, and hopefully that you can go a
(27:45):
good kid, go to college and show them and be
successful in the business world. Everybody can't play sports, lawyer,
a doctor'll be some kind of politician, but grow up
to be a grown man. Well, thank you so much, Charles.
It's called the last enforcing Yes. And we appreciate everything
(28:08):
that you have done. We appreciate the things that you're
all doing. And keep at it, man, keep appreciate it
relevant to our young people. Look thank you so much
for your contribution to the Blueprint Man Summit, and look
forward to continuing our conversation. Thanks for having me, Thanks
for giving me a chance to talk about my book.
(28:30):
For thanks in life. And like I said, the young generation,
I got some eye eye with them because they show
me a lot of love. And I always try to
shoot kids, motivate them to do some little things and
make them look up and say wow, you know. I
hope they can change their life and get on track.
It's all I try to do, get them on the
right track. Than you appreciate it,
Host
Louis Carr
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com