In Conversation with Dr. James P. Chandler

On this episode of The Blueprint Connect podcast, host Louis Carr speaks with Chicago Neurosurgeon Dr. James P. Chandler, MD.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm Louis cart host of the Blueprint Connect podcast. The
Blueprint Connect podcast is an extension of the Blueprint Men South,
where we have consistently given men a prescription bookroom not
just for themselves, but also for their families and their communities.
During these podcasts, we will educate and motivate our listeners

(00:23):
about entrepreneurship, careers, finances, health and wellness, and relationship. And
on today's episode, we have the privilege of having the
founder and surgeral director of the Manati Brain Institute, also
Professor and Vice Chair of the Department of Neurological Surgery,

(00:44):
doctor James Chadler. Welcome, doctor Chandler. Thank you for having me.
It's truly an honor to be with you, and congratulations
on this amazing forum. I've been following along this the
progress and the evolution, and it's a very impactful for

(01:06):
them that I'm honored to be a part of. Thank
you for being with us now, doctor Chandler. Most people
always say to someone who is very smart, but you're
not a brain surgeant, but you really are a brain surgeon.
How and when did that come to your mind? What

(01:28):
stage of life did you start thinking about being a
brain surgeon or was this sort of an evolution of
your professional career. Yeah, I would say that it was
more an evolution in that early on high school I
enjoyed the sciences and I thought it might be nice

(01:50):
to be a doctor, And so when I went away
to college, I took up a premit major. But between
my first and second year of college, the brother right
under me was hit by a car and he was
paralyzed from the neck down, and he was cared for
by a black neurosurgeon by the name of Charles mos

(02:15):
at Howard University. And my mother, being the typical proud mom, said,
you know, my son is a really good student. Would
you mind if he came and spent time with you
because maybe he liked to be a brain surgeon. One
day and doctor Mose had me round with him, invited

(02:35):
me to the operating room. He had a woman going blind,
and I saw him make an incision from here to
he pull the face down, take off the skull, going
beneath the brain under a microscope, pilled this tumor off
of the lady's optic nerves, and then later was sitting
at her bedside next to her talking to her and

(02:55):
she was reporting that she could see better. And so
after you see something like that, you think that would
be kind of cool to do. And so I went
back to college and took up a major in neurobiology
and exposure to the brain, the mind, psychology, and I
found it all fascinating to the point that when I

(03:17):
went into medical school, I went in with the clear
plan to become a neurosurgeon. Now, there are a lot
of different areas of neurosurgery. Most neurosurgeons will focus on
spine disease. A lot of people didn't know that. They
thought it's orthopedics, but a lot of neurosurgeons focus on
spine disease. Their movement to sortis like Parkinson's disease and epilepsy.

(03:42):
There is stream of basket disease, so stroke, aneurysms, ABMs,
and then they're tumors, which is my subspecialty area. And
the last thing I'll say in terms of my journey
to where I'm at in my last year of training,
as I had to decide which subspecialty area I would

(04:05):
focus on. Another tragedy had my nephew, the firstborn nephew
to the family, lost function in one of his arms
and in the ear was diagnosed with the brain tour
and fortuitously I had a relationship with Ben Carson, who

(04:25):
I reached out to because this was in the Maryland area,
and Ben operated on him. But despite Ben's excellent surgery, radiation,
and chemotherapy, he died nine months later at the age
of seven. And I believe that everything happens for a reason,

(04:46):
and losing my nephew really has given me an empathy
and sympathy for families and patients diagnosed with brain tumors.
And the passion that evolved in me during that whole experience,

(05:08):
I've applied to my practice and though I lost my nephew,
it's resulted in me saving thousands of lives over the years.
And so life tragedies kind of brought me to the
to the place that I'm at now. And as a
side note, my brother who was paralyzed from the neck down.

(05:31):
He had was called a spinal cord contusion and over
the course of nine to twelve months he gained about
ninety percent of the function back. Wow. So so doctor Chandler,
these sort of personal tragedies sort of drove you into
deeper into medicine. And into the field that you're in

(05:52):
the day that I did not expect that story. And
I've known you for a while, I had never heard
of that. So yeah, wow, that's that's that's great learning
for me and for our listening audience. So so so,
doctor Chandler, how many years of education does it take

(06:12):
to get to where you are today? I looked at
online in some of your background and I saw so
many universities there. I got confused. I'm like, where did
he graduate from? And what are all these other universities here? For?
Tell us about that? Now, that's a that's a it's
a great question. So you know, after high school, you're

(06:34):
looking at four years of college. I went to University
of California at Berkeley for college, and then you're looking
at four years of medical school. And I went to
the University of Maryland in Baltimore, and then you have
to do a residency in the numerous surgery. Residency is
seven years, So then there were seven years after medical
school and then the additional universities that you saw. Is

(06:57):
I decided based on the experience, I just attitude to
subspecialize in and taking care of complex tumors of the brain.
And so I did fellowships one in South Polo, Brazil,
and then another one at George Washington University. And then
in ninety seven, after I don't know sixteen seventeen years,

(07:18):
came on faculty year at Northwestern. And so you also
teach correct or A big part of my responsibility is
to teach the next generation, and so that includes both
medical students, but more commonly trainees. So every day I

(07:40):
have neurosurgery residents, kind of an an apprentice ship situation
in the operating room, and then also in the outpatient
clinics seeing patients with me. We were talking offline and
we talked about there probably less than sixty African Americans

(08:03):
who do what you do in this country. Has that
increased over time or is it sort of at a standstill. Well,
I wish I could say that it increased or was
at a standstill, but the facts are that the numbers
are declining. Fewer and fewer Black males are going to medicine,

(08:26):
getting into medical school and then matriculating on to do
residencies such as neurosurgery, and it's actually at crisis level
here at my particular medical school, we've recognized that enrollment
has dropped from ten to twelve max per entering class

(08:49):
to about two to three. And you know, we can
track this back all the way to the elementary school
level where where kids are or are not being encouraged
to go into science. And so we've tried to create
these pipelines that take us all the way back to
the elementary school, middle school and give children, in particular

(09:12):
Black Mills a path towards medicine. And is it the
cost of entry that or is it just the lack
of interest or the lack of knowing about the opportunity.
It's a it's a combination of both. You know, I

(09:33):
was fortunate to have parents who invested a lot in
me and supported me on my journey and a good mentor.
And to mose, most young children don't have the parents
with the financial resources to help them through college, medical

(09:54):
school and beyond, and then they don't have the mentors.
And that's why forums like this are so important. Hopefully
some young man with an interest and pursuing a career
in medicine or potentially neurosurgery, we'll see this and reach
out and a good service a mentor to that individual

(10:18):
and or others and if, if, if, do you need
to start this process doctor la Chandler, Is this a
high school or do you need prior to that to
start thinking about medicine. Because when I think about the
type of classes you have to take in high school
and in college, you have to kind of be a

(10:40):
pretty good student in grammar school and elementary school. That's
that's true, though I would say that there are many
individuals I've come across who are who are late bloomers. Uh.
You know, you could be an average student up until
your last couple of years of college and do well

(11:04):
and potentially get into medical school. What I tell applicants
medical school applicants looking to get in to neurosurgery is
the most important thing is to be a hard worker,
have compassion, have grit. Being brilliant helps, but it's not mandatory.

(11:28):
That's great. Who will be right back with more of
my interview after this quick break. So how do you develop?
I talk to another friend of mine who's in the

(11:51):
medical profession, and he said, LU, it's got to be
bigger than the money, bigger than the title. You have
to have to compare passion to be able to be
a doctor. Can you talk about that for a minute,
I think that there's a balance. You know, it's important

(12:14):
to have a general kind of care and compassion for
other human beings, altruism, if you will. But at the
same time, you want to be acknowledged and rewarded for
all that you do. And um, you know, most modern

(12:37):
day positions are coming out with you know, half a
million to three quarters of million dollars of debt and
so the days of of uh, you know, going into
a primary care field and being able to live comfortably
are gone. There's there's more, there's increase in pressure to

(13:02):
be in a subspecialized discipline just to be able to
pay off your student loans and live a comfortable life
with your family. You know, the fact that the matter is,
most physicians put in longer hours than the average worker,
and at times it can be very emotionally and physically strenuous.

(13:29):
I know people have come across doctors that they think
are a little short or callous. And what I would
say is, if you're dealing, in particular in my field,
with a lot of death to spare tragedy, people complaining
because they're in pain or otherwise suffering, your way of

(13:52):
dealing with it sometimes is to put up a little wall,
because otherwise you'll just be decimated emotionally, and that's what
will perceive as a doctor who seems cold and indifferent.
On the flip side, if you absorb all that, you
become wounded. And when you are a wounded doctor, patients
can feel and see that, and so that the real

(14:14):
challenge is to be somewhere in the middle. But I
want to touch base on the the motivation around a
doctor being a neurosurgeon in my case, and it's something
that I shared with you offline, and that is I

(14:37):
wish everyone could experience the inner fulfillment and gratification you
get in my role as you bring somebody to safety,
somebody dangling off a branch over a cliff two hundred
feet above rocks, and you pull them up to safety,

(14:58):
and it's the way they look at you, no words,
just the way they look at you. And then you
walk and do that the next person, the next person,
the next person, and it's a it's an inter fulfillment
and satisfaction that can't be explained by words, and I
wish everybody could experience it just once. The challenge, however,

(15:23):
is every now and then as you're pulling them up
and looking at them in their eyes, they slip through
your fingers to their death the rocks below, and they're
looking at you as they go, and you have to
process that and then go to the next person and
do the right thing. And it takes a little while
to work that out in your mind and be able

(15:47):
to be at your best despite tremendous loss. On average,
Doctor channel, how many surgeries do you do per week,
per month on average? Right, So it's it's variable, but
I would say between five and ten. In my career,

(16:11):
I've done about sixty five hundred surgeries, sixty five hundred,
sixty five hundred. I've been blessed with a very busy practice,
and as you know, the more reps you get in,
the better you become doing something. And so I have
a lot of wonderful people and support around me, and

(16:33):
that allows me to do things in a very efficient way,
and I probably am able to do more than many
because of that. So with a person who's doing that
many surgeries, and you explain to us about the sort
of responsibility and the stress that comes along with that,

(16:54):
what do you do in your personal life to sort
of balance some of that out so it doesn't drive
you crazy and overwhelm you. Well, I'll tell you that
the first foremost thing that I do is I work
on my spirit, and I maintained my spirit, and I
do a lot of praying. I just came from an

(17:15):
operation in a young woman with the difficult tumor deep
area of the brain, and I was praying for good
thirty minutes that the dad gave me some guidance. And
I have found that that prayer gives me peace, gives
me understanding, gives me, gives me purpose. I enjoy traveling,

(17:39):
I enjoy the occasional cigar, and I enjoy tremendously time
with time with colleagues and friends, and usually that's over
a nice dinner. So that's how I decompress and reboot.
My daughter is getting in Ana and she's five now,

(18:00):
where she helps to recharge me as well. That's great.
So you've mentioned these tumors. What generally creates a tumor
on the brain? How does it happen? The brain is
sort of we think it protected under the skull. So
what happens that tumors appear on the brain. You know,

(18:23):
it's not too dissimilar than tumors anywhere else in the body.
Usually just a random event. I suspect at some point
in time where we'll be able to tie this to
environmental exposures and some genetic aberration, but that hasn't been
sorted out. There is a particular type of tumor called meningioma,
which actually is the most common primary tumor in the

(18:45):
brain that is associated with radiation exposure. So individuals who
may have had radiation for consoles or acne back in
the day, we see a lot of these individuals developing,
these these men and humans in the brain. But other
than that association, it's it's purely random. And that's a

(19:07):
good question because it's the first thing people always ask,
you know, why me was a head trauma? That I
do something a cell phone would And it's none of
the above. It's just a random event. We will be
right back with more of my interview after this quick break. So, so,

(19:36):
doctor Chandler, we hear a waymaker. We believe that every
successful person has had at least one waymaker in their life.
Tell us about some of the waymakers that sort of
the help you assent to where you are today. I
would say, without question. The first and foremost would be

(19:57):
my father. Uh. You know, intellect is in large part genetic,
and my intellect I garnered from my father primarily my
mother's second daily But my spirit, my faith comes in
large part from from my mother. So my parents were

(20:22):
instrumental in me becoming who I am. And I mentioned
not to Charles Mose because despite the fact that I
had that family, that prontal foundation, and they had the
utmost confidence in me, it takes a while to build
up the competence in yourself to achieve certain goals. And

(20:46):
seeing doctor Mose this this this black man doing these
amazing surgical procedures, and the level of dedication and reverence
and respect when you see it, you're like, well, maybe
maybe I can do this. And so that was he

(21:07):
was an important waymaker from as well. So I would
say those those three of the most foundational waymakers in
my life. If you think that doctor Chanler too, when
you were eighteen years old, what is some of the
advice you wish someone had gave you that now you

(21:27):
know through experience and trial and there and everything. If
you knew at eighteen, what are like three things you
wish you'd known at eighteen years old. I was going
to say something about a love life, but I'll leave
that to the side. Just focus on other stuff, I
think to try and maintain balance. It was it was

(21:51):
very easy to kind of get sucked into just being
focused on academics and kind of streamlining my academic focus.
I wish that I had taken some courses in anthropology
and English and kind of create a more well rounded

(22:14):
foundation for myself, because you think at some point in
life you're going to have time to do that, but
I still haven't, so that would have been that would
have been something very helpful. Another bit of advice is,
you know, you you become who you associate with, and

(22:34):
I had some sketchy associations that at different times compromise me.
And the last thing I would say is don't let
your failures define you, but let them refine you. And I,

(22:57):
you know, like many people had fail years along the way,
and it wasn't clear to me early on that I
could overcome them and succeed. I had professors in college
tell me, you know, you want to maybe think about
a career in nursing. I wouldn't consider neurosurgery if I

(23:19):
were you it's it's a very competitive field. So those
are the things that I would advise an eighteen year
old me. Well, doctor chair. Let'm ask this question a lot,
and they say, when did you know you had made it?

(23:40):
What point of your career that all of the doubts
kind of went away and you were clear that you
could do this and that you are on your way?
You know, young people ask me this all the time,
and usually I have a real bad answers. The point

(24:02):
the answer that they're looking for is that it's younger
rather than it was older when I found out. So
when in your career that you know that you had
made it and then you were clear on your way.
You know, there are a lot of hurdles that you
have to clare in the in the medical structure. And
I would say when I when I secured a position

(24:28):
in neurosurgery, which was a very competitive position to land
hundreds and hundreds of the top students competing for one
or two positions. And when I landed the position actually
here at Northwestern, this is where I trained, and uh,

(24:50):
I was I was excited about the city. I was
excited about neurosurgery. I knew there was without doubt that
I would I would matriculate to the program. So once
I got and I felt a sense of relief and
accomplishment like I had not experienced up to that point,
and I don't know that I've experienced since. Wow. So,

(25:16):
Doctor Chandler, as we close the interview, your specialty is surgery,
brain surgery. But when you look at Black health in general,
and you look at what our community has come through
with COVID, in your opinion, what is the state of

(25:38):
Black health in this country today? There are a lot
of issues. That's a great question. There are a lot
of issues that revolve around brain health that that plague
our community in particular. And these are issues that I
directly or indirectly address, such as stroke right where where

(26:01):
Black people are fifty percent more likely to have a
stroke than white people and black males seventy percent more likely,
and in fact, both of my parents ultimately passed as
a consequence of strokes. So it's a it's a real
difficult problem in our community, tied to diet and pressure

(26:25):
and exercise and is generally taking good care of yourself.
And the other issue that I hear about almost on
a daily basis, friends and others reaching out to me.
Is dementia be it Alzheimer's multi infarct dementia, which just

(26:47):
means a lot of little strokes that contribute to a
dementia state. I think that the dementia as people are
living longer, dementia is becoming a really significant of crisis
because it's such a difficult problem to manage, and it's
there they are difficult patient based to take care of.

(27:10):
It just really challenges physicians and family versus there's not
a lot you can do so to dementia. Is this
something that is growing in our community or has it
always been there it just wasn't diagnosed or recognized. I

(27:30):
think it's a little bit of both, probably more unrecognized.
You know, we all had their Aunt Ruthie or Aunt
Mabel who was senile, right, crazy old and so and so,
and now we understand that they would be you know,
it wasn't necessarily senility. It was Alzheimer's dementia or some

(27:53):
other type of dementia. But I do think that it
is being diagnosed with increasing frequent see because our diagnostic
tools are better, and people a little bit longer, and
it's usually an advanced age where these dementias manifest themselves.
And the final question, doctor Chandler, the affordability of healthcare

(28:19):
for our community. Is it more affordable today? Are we
missing some things that we just don't understand? I don't
know about. How do we sort of access whether it's
capital dollars, whatever term you want to put on it,
to have greater education, greater access to people like yourself
and other doctors. What would you recommend to our audience

(28:42):
to sort of say, take advantage of the healthcare that
exists today. Well, you know, the affordable healthcare really kind
of ensures that anybody can secure some form of coverage.
And the reality is most major hospital systems and academic

(29:04):
medical centers well will accept that form of insurance. And
in fact, even if you don't have insurance, if you
come into an emergency room, every hospital has to treat you.
The real onus is on us as healthcare providers, to
take measures to bring down costs, because right now, the

(29:29):
pharmaceutical companies, the various instrumentation companies are driving up bills.
I did a surgery, straightforward brain surgery where patient was
in the hospital for two or three days a few
weeks back, and the bill for that, which is including

(29:52):
all the supplies hospitals day was two hundred and seventy
thousand dollars. Now, I spoke to a former resident of
mine who is abroad in one of the Eastern European
countries where he started a hospital, and he told me
that for the same operation, all in expenses were seven

(30:17):
thousand dollars. So the point is there's a lot that
we can do on the provider side to make make
healthcare more affordable to all patients. And that's something that
we talk about, we think about on a regular basis.
But you know, my doors and many physicians doors are

(30:40):
open to anybody, insured or uninsured, and it's just amount
of doing your research to figure out what healthcare facilities
except your particular coverage, even if it's free coverage. Doctor Chandler,
we thank you so much for this interview. It's been
informative and enlightening and we appreciate all that you're doing

(31:02):
and we pray that you continue to have the strength
and knowledge and understanding to keep doing it. So thank
you for so much for sharing your journey. You're very welcome,
thank you, and thank you for this initiative. It's it's
amazing work that you're doing, and I appreciate the prayers
because they work. Thank you,