August 24, 2022 • 44 mins
Today host Louis Carr speaks with Charles D. King, Founder & CEO of MACRO, a multi-platform media company representing the voice and perspectives of people of color.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
I'm Louis Carr, host of the Blueprint Connect podcast. The
Blueprint Connect podcast is an extension of the Blueprint Men Suffer,
where we have consistently given men a prescription book not
just for themselves, but also for their families and their communities.
During these podcasts, we will educate and motivate our listeners
(00:22):
about entrepreneurship, careers, finances, health and wellness, and relationship. We
have the pleasure of having throngs d Keen Seal and
the founder of Macro. Thank you, Louis, and thank you
for having me. I'm really honored love everything that you're
doing and who you are, who you're speaking to, and
(00:45):
it's it's it's absolutely my pleasure to be here today.
Thank you so much. Charles. You've had this amazing career
that doesn't show any sign of a slowdown, having worked
with people like Tyler Perry, Open for Winfrey, Terence. How
would being a part of some of the biggest movies
(01:06):
in Hollywood. But before we get there, let's take you
all the way back to the Kata, Georgia and tell
us about your upbringing outside of the A T M.
And how was that growing up in that particular time
and tell us about your dreams as a young man. Yeah, okay,
(01:28):
So my my family moved south when when we were
pretty young, we stopped off. I was born in Harlem,
but moved south. Uh when I was four. We stopped
off in North Carolina for a few years and then
we moved down to Atlanta and moved to the Decatur
and playing a routes there from the time I was
eight years old on. So I considered at home and
(01:50):
my father, my father's remedian. My mother is from New York. Uh.
They met while my father was at Howard and Howard
Medical School and uh, and he started dating on his
classmates daughter. And that's the so my uncle was also
there how a medical schools. So I had, you know,
upbringing there in in while growing up indicator with my
(02:13):
mother who grew up in New York, my father who's Bermudian,
So you know, we were but we're in the South.
And it was interesting when we moved to Decatur, the
the the area of Decator, the suburban area that we're
in and in South Dacab we really got the experience
an interesting ship that happened. We were one of the
first black families that moved to that neighborhood. And then
(02:35):
as as the years went by, we saw the neighborhood transition.
You know, we've heard of that term white flight. Well
I saw a white flight happen, like those first one
when I was like eight to like twelve or so,
most of the kids in the neighborhood where white kids,
and I saw it more black families moved to the neighborhood.
White families started like packing up and leaving. And it
was interesting seeing that transition in elementary school and definitely
(02:58):
when I got to high school at the Southwest Calf
High School, uh, when I was in the eighth grade,
because the eighth through twelfth grade uh school. When I
was in the eighth grade, uh, most of the people
in the junior like who were juniors and seniors, I'd
say over half of them, if not, you know, i'd
say sixty of those classes were white. By the time
(03:19):
I was a sophomore, our school was like nineties black
and I just saw, I saw this shift happen. And
the great thing for me was I grew up. It's
really at a school. I went to a public you know,
primarily black high school, but you know, early days there
too a lot of my friends. I played soccer and tennis.
(03:41):
A lot of the kids were white, you know, a
lot of my early friends. And I really grew up
with in a background where I had all kinds of friends.
But but I had a family and my mother who's
like really an activist, you know, writer, artists, who was
really about the people. Uh So I grew up with
that and still than me and my father had this
(04:02):
um you know, that kind of British influence growing up
in Bermuda. But it was also you know, started his
own practice as a as a as a pediatrician, and
I was able to see early on for him what
it's like to have your own business. And I really
it didn't dawn on me two years later what that
was like being exposed to my dad building his own
(04:22):
practice and you know, day by day, week by week,
but he you know, calling his own you know, having
his own hours. He was my soccer coach, he was
my tennis coach. My mother was a stay at home
you know mother. She worked out of the home, but
while she was working, you know, while we were in school,
she would be writing her book. So I had just
a very had a wonderful childhood. My sisters two years
(04:46):
younger than me. We were in all kinds of activities,
and you know, I had a very blessed childhood. But
also what I experienced my my parents got divorced when
I was in the eighth and ninth grade somewhere in there,
and that's when I some of the shift of having
some adversity, you know, began to happen where um, you know,
(05:07):
we ended up, you know, having a joint custody um
situation where in my basically ten through twelfth grade, I
lived half of the year with my father, my sister,
and I, and then I would go to see my
mother every other weekend and half of the year with
my mother, and I would see my father every other weekend.
So I was blessing that even though they got divorced,
I had both of my parents very actively involved in
(05:29):
my life. And I see that the impact that that's
had and how well that me and my sister have
done as a result of this incredible parenting and what
they instilled in us. But also what I experienced was
my father being a physician, and with the divorce that
they went through, I didn't have that super spoon. Your
dad's a doctor, experience man. I had jopped from the
(05:52):
time I was thirteen, cut and grass, babysit and worked
at his office, summer counselor, maintenance man, stock wary as
at wall at a convenience store, retail sales. Like I
worked my ass off, and it was really instilled early
on and didn't do the Jack and Jill and a
lot of those things that like a lot of you know,
(06:14):
maybe other kind of maybe more upper middle class black
folks were doing. So I really was so something about
that work ethic and what was it stilled early on
in me? I think that that's been applied towards my
my my educational background and my thirst and desire to
make sure I'm achieving and the hunger that I've had,
(06:38):
and so it probably impacted me. And so I think,
you know, during the during the college, during those years,
I knew that education was important and yuys I was
able to get a great scholarship to Vanderbilt University, which
is where I went for my undergraduate studies, and um,
so much of my guy in life and career and
(06:59):
and really complicated to transform from there. So so Charles
on a step back to the high school, whill you
say it transition from a white high school to a
black high school. Did see when you think back and
look back, did the degree of excellence and academics did
(07:19):
that change because of that or not it did? It
still stay at a very high level. The excellence was
instilled in me from home. You know that we My
mother was an at a reader. My father obviously was
a physician, and he would had you know, was a
really great student all through school. And so there was
a thing for me of like, I wanted to do well,
(07:43):
I wanted to see but it was also instilled in
me with my parents that I could achieve anything. What
also happened is not something I I don't know if
I've even talked about this publicly. When we first moved
to the neighborhood, it was at the same time bussing
was happening where um that because the neighborhood was white
the first moved and so they were there were a
couple of the um neighborhoods that were primarily black where
(08:05):
there were busting kids to areas that have more UM
integration within the schools. And so we when I came
to school right around the same time that was happening,
and you know that whole thing where they try to
track students and they put you and place you bagger,
like what level are you performing on academically? While I
got placed in the lower level tracking starting in the
(08:28):
third grade. And that's where it matters about how your
parents are advocating for you, because my my mother was like,
what the hell are you saying? My son is capable?
And basically from third grade all the way through eighth grade,
it was a push in a battle of getting lift
pushed and elevated to the appropriate academic levels. And part
(08:50):
of it was they tried to track and put all
the black students in the lower track, and my parents,
my mother in particular, was advocating to make sure that
didn't happen to her son. So I think by the
time I got the high school I was it was
just reinforced and instilled in me where I was just
working extra hard and making make sure I was going
(09:10):
to succeed. Now here's the thing that I found out
later on when I was an adult, was that, oh,
I actually as a as a after I had gone
to you know, college at Vanderbilt, and I went to
Howard Law School as an adult, successful executive was when
I actually did get tested and I was like, oh,
I had a h D. I overcompensated with the just
(09:37):
the extra work, the amount of hours and a reinforcement
of excellence to get to the place to exceeds as
I did through high school, college and to graduate and
make it through law school. It didn't even realize that
that was a condition that I had. So so so, Charles,
why Howard law school instead of Howard medical schools? Your
(09:58):
dad was a doctor, right, I can tell you exactly.
I remember that like it was yesterday. It was doubling
up in in um science in high school, thinking maybe
I'd be a physician. I thought two things, perhaps going
into medicine or I'm gonna go into business. Those are
my two ideas now. I I broadly when I thought business,
(10:18):
I thought stockbroker. I had. I didn't really no business,
but I had an entrepreneurial sort of business mindset. But
then also my father being a physician, I thought that
perhaps that By the time I got the Vanderbilt and
I took that my my first couple of science classes,
I quickly was like, I'm not I'm not going to
(10:39):
medical school. This is not my passion, and then I
think it was an econ one oh one. I felt,
you know what, I like political science, So that's what
I ended up settling in with. So I didn't go either,
although I apply business to what I'm doing with scaling
and as a CEO of Macro. But those were a
couple of those ideas of early career tractor that I
(11:01):
perhaps thought that I was gonna go down. Now. I
was gonna ask you this off the record, but since
we're here right now, i'll tell you what. I was
looking at your background and I saw Vanderbilt, and I
knew you had with the law school, and I just glanced.
I assume that h was gonna say Harvard versus Howard.
(11:21):
Did the Harvard ever crossed your mind as a path?
Or did because of your dad and your uncle? You
said it's gotta be how Well, I went to Vanderbilt
and they called they called that Vanderbilt being to the
Harvard and South or Harvard and eventil the north or
something like that. Right, I'm someone who does, who is
(11:45):
really learns by doing, and so I would say that
I did my earlier years at Vanderbilt. I did. I
just kind of struggled and then my my academics and
my grades went up as the years proceeded. But I
didn't necessarily have I didn't have extraordinary grades at Vanderbilt.
So I think when I was looking at grad schools,
perhaps I could have looked at it at Harvard Law,
(12:08):
but I don't think that's where I was headed, right.
And but then I also looked at what kind of
life experience I wanted. And I worked for two years
in the corporate world after Vanderbilt, and I was working
for the Sports and fire into company in UH there
was based out of Stanford, Connecticut. This fortune fither in
company called champion Are National, was a paper company. I
(12:30):
was the only senior. I was the one only like
African American executive. I like three thousand people in this
division of the company. I was placed in their Cincinnati,
Ohio office, and I had a five states serious sales
territory of Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, Ohio, and West Virginia and
not the big cities like Indianapolis and Cincinnati, all the
(12:51):
little ones in between. Suffice to say, after a year
and a half of that, and I was looking and
applying to two law schools, Howard Give and it was
already in my blood, the legacy in the in the
history of Howard. Also, I was very interested in thinking
about civil rights as well. Thirdgood Marshall and how many
other incredible titans have gone to Howard. I wanted that
(13:13):
as part of my legacy. So when I was accepted
to Howard Law, I was hands down my number one choice.
And uh and and also wanted the the experience of
being in an HBCU, being in in Washington, d C.
At Howard University of Howard Law. It was. It was
an incredibly rewarding experience and definitely one of the highlights
(13:34):
of my young of my in my younger years. So um,
I loved it. There. We'll be right back with more
of my interview after this quick break. So let's jump
(13:55):
Charles to the iconic William Morris. Okay, I don't let
you tell our audience how iconic William Morris's. I'm in
the business, so I know it, but I don't let
you describe how iconic this agency is within the entertainment industry.
So the William Morris Agency is the oldest of all
(14:20):
of the entertainment institutions. Um that you know, back even
back to even the vaudeville days, you know, in the
silent movies and people performing on stage. Started in New York.
Then then they opened an office in Los Angeles. UH,
and by the time I landed in the William Morris
mel Room, I think they were at their nine year
(14:42):
of doing business by the time I landed in the
William Morris mel Ram. And I did a lot of
research when I was at Howard Law and looking at
my career path and wanting to mesh my interests around
entertainment and content as well as my interest in building
a business and launching a media for me. One day
and I looked at all the different paths and I
(15:03):
looked at I thought about private equity. I looked at
and thought about if I practiced law, and I went
to the business side of things. But then I learned
about this agency world. And what I learned was how
many typans of industry, people that are multi billionaires that
have built media company, you know, people like Barry Diller
and David Geffen, heads of a lot of the studios.
(15:23):
Famous people like the first black agent was famous Amos
was It was the first black agent, UH, the William
Morris Agency. And so I thought, well, look, if I
went into this space, got the experience, UM learned about
the industry from the ground floor, that one day being
an artist advocate and an agent representative, that one day
(15:46):
that would be equipped with the tools and the resources
and the experience to then what one day launched and
build my own company. And I thought that that would
be the perfect set of my interests and skill set
having a creative interest in lean and I'm really good
at identifying talent, my corporate and sales experience that I had,
you know, in between undergraduate and law school, and also
(16:08):
some of the like UM sales experience and uh third
party marketing experience I had in undergrad and then couple
with my legal background and training in my law degree
from Howard, that all of that together felt like like
went into the world of being an agent, did I would?
I would do extraordinarily well and UM. But the thing
that I also learned was you've got to start from
(16:31):
the ground floor. You can literally you start in the
mail room. And that's exactly what I did, like a
real half. You know, I've seen that over and over
stories about you. So on our side of the business,
they call up an agency. You gotta start in the pit.
So the mail room like the pit. The mail room
is like the pit. It's or if you're on Wall Street,
(16:51):
it's like your start out as an analyst, right, you know, like, uh,
but it's it's um, it's what you pay your dues
underbrad degree. It depends. It varies for me from mail
room to floater. Like before I actually landed in an area,
it was nine months for me. And you're literally working
(17:12):
like nine a week running around delivery mail, go for uh,
you know, reading scripts at night, UM, immersing yourself in
the understanding of the bottom of the business, and then
you work from you know, all the way up. And
it's honestly, it's prestigious and hard to get in, especially
(17:33):
back then when I started, I was the only on
the film and television side of our training program. I
was the only one when I landed there did that
was the only one at that time in film and TV.
There were a couple of my brothers who were UM
in the music pro program, and UM, what I learned
there was that I when I actually did get promoted
(17:56):
two and a half years into it, I think I
was the first African American to start in the trainee
program and become a film and television agent. That that
was the first time. And then when I became partner
years later, it was the pub became the first partner
in the history of any one of the larger major
talent agencies. I was, you know, there was now thankfully
(18:16):
there's there's several others and many others that have come.
But but when it did, when I did get promoted,
it was historical. And that was in a hundred and
one years when I got promoted, and then when I
became agent, it was maybe another it's another set, but
a partner with another seven or saving years after that. So, Charles,
I want to I want to fause right here because
(18:38):
and I want you to speak to a lot of
the millennials on the audience and some of those who
are pushing through that gen Z demographic right now. They said,
I wouldn't have did that. I got a law degree,
all right, I ain't no where in the hell I'm
starting off in the male room. I ain't got no
patience for that. It ain't enough. Hey, I'm not doing that.
(19:01):
Speak to those people, well, I would, I would say,
do your research in every industry, in every field, there's
there are different paths, and look, there's no one way
of getting there. But I also understood some of the
hurdles for us that we have to work ten times harder,
were ten times smarter. We have to you know, be
savvy and how we navigate through all of the world
(19:22):
that we're in and and all of us have gotten
to where we are by doing that. I also knew
that there if we try to skip a step, like hey,
let me jump this and skip that step, that you
could try to do it um and I saw people
who tried to do it. But what ended up happening
to many who did try to skip a step is
inevitably someone would said, well they got there just because
(19:43):
or they didn't put in the work, and then they
wouldn't have the longevity. I knew in order I had
the longevity, every one of them needed to see me
go from the ground floor up just like they did.
I need to do better than all the folks I
started with and keep excelling the way we always do
and be smart about it. And only way I could
make it through it was honest. There was so much
community support, the people that blaze a trail before me,
(20:06):
that had cracked, cracked enough holes in the windows and
and provided enough community support, my family support, uh, and
then frankly, other people that mentored me, that saw something
in me. Similar to conversations we're having where the people
saw something in you. There are people from our community
that saw something in me. There were lawyers and other
(20:26):
folks in the industry. There were a few of the
clients of the agency that said, why isn't there a
brother there? We liked this brother Charles, you know, why
isn't he on the desk yet? And then also too,
there were people that outside of our community that I
connected with it mentor me that saw something in me
as well. And it was the combination of all of
those things, me doing my part, and then the last
(20:47):
pieces I would say was God and my belief and
my faith that also helped take me through it. So
my word to the gen Z millennials is you gotta
do your part. You gotta do your part. You got
to pay your dues now. You don't have to necessarily
boil away for twenty years the way perhaps the older generation,
even generations older than me, had to. But you're still
(21:09):
gonna have to pay some dudes, and you're gonna you know,
have to be smart about it, and otherwise it's just it.
The likelihood of success isn't is much more challenging if
you don't pay your dues. And it's something about committing yourself,
being humble and being willing to roll up your sleeve. Uh.
And and then yes, it can still happen for you
(21:31):
in the early years in the twenties, but you still
got to pay your dues at some point. So so Charles,
when when you reach your story, you go from the
mail room, you you become an agent and film and TV.
And then all these names started coming up, like and
Tyler Perry and Janet Jackson and Terrence Holloway and Andre
(21:54):
three thousand and Michael B. Jordan's how does that happen?
If I'm the guy in college sitting in the barbershop
and you walk in, I'm gonna look like now he
looked like me, kind of act like me. But I
don't know, Oprah, I don't know Tyler Perry, how did
you get those relationships? How did that happen? For well,
(22:19):
with everyone, every one of the relationships of different artists
and people that have been blessed to work with, there's
a story behind every one of them. I'd say the
biggest thing was every media figure, artist, celebrity. They're incredibly
talented and so unique and special with with how they've
gotten to where they are in their careers. But they're
(22:39):
people just like you and I, and they're connecting with
people on a human level and being able to understand
their goals and their dreams and vision and then being
someone who wants to be in support and the furtherest
of it. And by being in a place like the
William Morris Agency that had this legacy and traditional weight
(22:59):
behind it, and I got fixed the experience and the
skill set to understand how our industry works. And so
then I would get to know and build relationship with
artists to then here and listen to understand what they
were looking to do in their careers and their vision
for what they wanted to accomplish. And then I could
(23:19):
then put a plan in place and utilize the collective
resources of this massive of that massive institution to work
to help fulfill and in the way that we could
as agents UH to help them accomplish their goals UH
and what those projects would be and how to negotiate
those deals alongside their attorneys. And so I would say
(23:43):
that there was there's a through line for me of
identifying artists before they became as prominent in their field
as they are now. So you know, when my first
year as an agent, um, I was introduced to this
incredibly talented producer promoter named Walter Latham. He's the gentleman
(24:06):
that that that was. He was the same age that
I was at the time of thirty my first year
is an agent, and he promoted the Kings of Comedy tour.
And I was in one of my colleagues in our
music book groups that this guy, Walter Latham wants to
become a film producer and he's going to make this
movie by the Kings of Comedy. I we went on,
(24:27):
we signed him and I became his main agent. I
was six months into be an agent then. But one
of the first things we did was when he was
putting The King to the Comedy movie together. Spike Lee
was a director, and I get it was added to
Spike Lee's team as a young agent because Spike Lee
said to his agents, where are the brothers? Where are
the brothers? And and I had met his agent, Dave
(24:49):
worshafter who has been a great friend and a mentor
through the years. And he met me before I got promoted,
and I laid out my plan envision, and he and
Jim Wyatt were the ones who promoted me. And then
I got added the Spike's team, and Spike was the
director of that film. After the success of it, Walter said, Hey,
there's this guy named Tyler Perry. Have you ever heard
of him? And he sent me some DVDs of his plays.
(25:12):
He had never done any film or TV. I watched
the players, are like, wow, this is interesting. But then
I'll be honest with you. Was when I was at
a couple of family unions in Atlanta and some barbershops
in l A. And I would just, you know, shoot
the breeze with my barber From literally the moment I
had just moved to l A. I said, Man, this
is gentleman named Tyler Perry. I just saw these plays
and man, he's got this huge audience from it. He
(25:34):
was like the lady in three Rolls down, said Tyler Perry.
I was like, what you know him? They were like
and they started telling all these things about these plays
and how big and it was clear what a massive
audience he had, but it had been brought in the
film and TV. So then we put a team together.
I was the young agent we started working with Tyler.
I was part of it, you know, made the calls,
(25:56):
connected him with the studio. So it was before it
was early on Diva Mad Black Woman and putting together
that deal and introducing the line, get negotiating this transformative
thing and the television deals we did after that, it
was early on. Now he's Tyler Perry like the mogul,
and he always was, but he had the idea in
(26:18):
the vision. I was happy to be in the agency
and could be part of like helping to be a
part of being a conduit. And so I could just
go on and on with the story from Andre Benjamin
before you Hey, y'all broke when he said, Hey, I'm
this big rapper, but I want to you know, Ryan Coogler.
I remember sitting down with him literally our first two
hour meeting in my office, and he was and we
(26:41):
were read fruit Biale station. My colleague Craig Castell was like,
he's special, and I met him too. We talked for
two hours and shared things that I hadn't literally told
anyone in our industry about some of my career journey.
I'm not surprised at all that he's had the career
T had. I knew then how specially it was. I
knew how well fruit Station. He told me the idea
(27:01):
for Creed. We connected him with Sylvester Salone. So my
only point in my answer to your question is I
would also have division. I met so many of these
artists before they became stuff. What part of being their team?
So folks like Oprah came later in my career when
when she you know, me and a team of of
(27:22):
agents started working with her, and so that was you know,
she'd are she was already Oprah that point. And at
that point, I'm pinching myself, like, what a blessed life
to hear it is that I get to work with
Oprah Winfrey and as she was building out and and
beginning to produce more film, and I could be, you know,
(27:43):
the point person on her film side of her her team.
So um, each one of the stories are different, but
I would say that most of the artists I was
earlier in their careers, icons like Princeton, Janet Jackson, and
and Oprah, I came in later, but then I was
the you know, new blood, bringing in a different energy
to what they were looking to do and further their
(28:06):
their missions. So so as you just mentioned this word vision,
and I don't want to ask you the same question
I asked Bob Johnson. Is it inherent or is it learned?
I'd say a combination, but that I have a gift
(28:28):
of under seeing things and then the intuition of identifying
uniquely positioned artists and people, because there's identification and identifying executives,
and I have a track record of young people I've
mentored or you know, hired or been a part of
(28:52):
building at at Macro Filmmakers Multi Hyphen It's entrepreneurs of
seeing something special someone just like they saw people who
saw it in me, and then also working to help
support and cultivate that. It's one thing to identify, but
then you also have to work to be a part
of helping to shape and advance. And so I was
(29:12):
able to do that as an as an agent, I'm
doing that and me and my colleagues and partners are
doing that from Macro with the work we've done with
the incredible filmmakers that we've financed and produced their their projects,
um and so. But then part of it is learned
because the educational background, the years of the ground ranking
(29:34):
from mail room up and my years of negotiating deals,
my years of called and negotiations and packaging projects with
every one of the film and television studio. So part
of it is the business side. You can have an intuition,
but if you don't know how to execute, what does
that matter. So I've been able to do both the
(29:55):
combination of the two, but you've got to have the
vision first. We'll be right back with more of my
interview after this quick break. So earlier in the conversation,
(30:16):
Charles you you you're talking about being able to do
a lot of different things and that you had the
confidence in your own ability to be able to do
things that maybe you were just starting out and you've
never done before. What gave you that confidence? What gives
you that confidence today, Uh, to say hey, I can
(30:37):
do that, because in our community a lot of people
don't have that confidence. I believe it was instilled early on.
I think early on people telling me what I couldn't do,
particularly folks not from our community, experiencing racism early on
(30:57):
when I was eight years old and someone tried to
track me in the you know, lower lower learning UH
deficiency group. Um having mother saying that's what they're saying.
You can do whatever it is you want to do
in life. Honestly, I've always been, always been underestimated, always
from from elementary school, high school, maybe even college, probably
(31:23):
even law school. More every time, even now with Macro,
I can tell you with a surety, when I first launched,
there were people like, oh, that's great, Charles, Okay, we'll
see how that goes. Seven and a half years later,
fifteen Academy Award nominations, you know how we've scaled as
(31:45):
a company. There were folks who just had no idea
and honestly don't realize we're just getting started. So um,
where does that confidence come? I think it was instilled
in me from my parents early life experiences, the fortitude,
and then also man my faith. You know, my my
(32:05):
both my parents are are people of faith, and it
was just then upbringing and and and then also to
being myself. My grandmother the vice she gave me before
I jumped in my U All truck and drove out here.
By the way, my grandmother lived with us too, from
a time I was eight years old. So also had
(32:26):
you know, a second grandmother in the house too, who
was very much a part of my upbringing, and she
was just like, Charls, go out there and be yourself.
They'll have to love you. And honestly, from from mail
room to partner to CEO of Macro, I maintained that
and tried my best to stay exactly who I am
(32:50):
and not be swayed by the Hollywood swirl of the
scenes going on around me and try to keep that
center and my family and at the center of of
of keeping my compass. Now, Charles, you guys represent agents.
You you get deals done, you also finance some of
(33:11):
these deals. Tell us about that portion. Why did you
kind of click? And so I want to do this now?
How did you go? I knew in launching um, in
launching Macro, that that we were not looking to be
a just producers for hire. We're building a media company
(33:33):
of the future, which as part of this multi platform
media company, one of our plat one of the divisions
is our student our content studios, both film, television and
digital content, and that we needed to have not only
capital to develop projects, but also to finance productions that
(33:54):
in order for our for us to be empowered, to
be able to tell our stories from our community. You're
not empowered if you only can tell a story by
going to one of the major eight studios and having
them green light something and tell you how it should
be done. And here's the small allocated but it we
needed to come from a place of being empowered in
(34:16):
order to tell these stories, or to at least in
most cases, come to the table and sit alongside of
them and say, why don't we make this story like
with the way we made Judas in The Black Messiah,
where we said, look, we're we're gonna put a path
at a capital for the film, why don't you put
up the other half and then we will utilize your distribution,
(34:37):
which is what we did with Warner Brothers with Judas
and Black Messiah. Coming to the table with project package
with incredible partner Ryan Coogler who brought us the project
in Shaka King and the brilliant filmmaker who you know
co wrote the script and directed it. The power of
coming together on it with our capital and utilizing the
amazing team at Warner Brothers and distribution as how the
(34:59):
movie was made so authentically and unapologetically is because we
weren't just like, hey, can we develop this and please
green light this one day and help us make it?
And so I I started out Macro, We went and
raised capital. We have incredible partners and that's where we
came from in terms of being able to do that.
(35:20):
The second thing, in addition to what we were doing
to build our media company and to be able to
finance and produce content across all the platforms, was I
understood that there was a need for others and that
there's a there's a lack of access to capital, and
that so much of all of the innovation and economic
clout that's going to happen in transformation from our communities
(35:44):
is coming from what's happening in the venture and technology space.
So what we did is we use some of our
seed capital and in addition to building Macro, we started
making strategic investments in companies that were aligned with our
mission and operating in areas that were centered gistick to us,
but we're different than what we're building. Those investments were
incredibly successful. And then I created a partnership with two
(36:07):
amazing partners um Adrian Fenty and Mike Palin was part
of our founding team, and we launched an early stage
fund and and then then we had a second fund
and look, those funds did extraordinarily well. And then that
that my partners joined forces with another partner and have
a much larger fund. So we're on like fund for
(36:28):
that's I can't announce the number, but the third fund
was a hundred and ten millions. Of the last fund
will will which will hopefully they will announce one day,
will be even larger. And I will just say that
those founders of those companies are our companies led by
(36:49):
women and people of color, and that is going to
have a transformative impact on our communities. And so yes,
we're building macwell, but I understood the uniqueness of the
platform what we're building, but I wanted to also be
a part of creating change globally economically for people of color,
which is also part of our mission. Charles we here
(37:09):
way maker believe that every successful person has had way
makers of your makers. Who are people to help make
the way. Who are people who help make the way? Well?
I keep saying it, but God, definitely my parents, you
know when King Dr King in Atlanta, my mom Francis King.
My sister, Yeah, my sister, who's a who's a counselor,
(37:32):
she's a psychology she's a doctor, Dr Lynn. She actually
just co authored her first book about you know, uh,
mental the need for proper mental care for for for
black women. UM, my grandmother, you know, uh, my family.
Now in addition to that, there's my family now, my
(37:54):
wife Stacy, who's my partner, my life partner, like every
move everything that we and we've been in partnership on
the last twenty one years and even the five years
we did before then. Um, and and my and my
and our and our two sons who are fifteen and thirteen.
I would say I've had great mentors. I've been so
(38:14):
blessed with great mentors. Um In during my time in
law school, when I met Tanya Heidelberg, who you may
know Thania Heidelberg Yacht was a she was a VP
at MTV. I wrote it this crazy letter, four page letter.
Her assistant Patty, who I remember to this day how
amazing she was, let me take an informational meeting with
(38:36):
with Tanya that turned into my internship at MTV. The
summer between my second and third year law school, it
was transformative from my life. We were talking earlier on
our internship programs, right, Louis, She's the one who provided
the internship for me. Did helps show how big the
world the opportunities there. I didn't know about agencies before then.
(38:56):
I thought, Hey, maybe I'm gonna be the entertainment lawyer.
It really my afgre that summer of when so much
was happening at the height of of hip hop. I
remember going to Biggie Small Flatinum party the first time
I met Diddy, like it just it really inspired me.
It had it made a difference. Tanya Heidelberg one thousand
(39:18):
percent was a way maker from me, and UH made
a huge impact. And um when I would say, I
didn't get to know Bob Johnson until recently, but I
tell you what I was in law school Washington, d C.
And BT being centered there and his story and what
he and his team and Debra Lee and all of
(39:38):
you guys. The inspiration I took from BT. I tried
to get internships. I couldn't, but now look at how
I'm like friends with with with with with Bob and
Debra Lee. I pitched myself sometimes like I actually personally
know these types they've im Afar had a huge impact
on my trajectory. Reginald Lewis, I read what Washing White
(40:00):
have all the fun I can't it. You don't put
my mind to the financial sector and the impact that
m and A raising capital could have it building a
company one day. And then when I moved to l
A there were loss of greeting in the team of
lawyers and folks that that that were great waymakers. Dal
(40:20):
Miller was one of them. Nina Shaw is another. They
really opened up doors when I was in that mail
that mail run time. There was Louise West, my law
school classmate, Matt Middleton who sent me clients when I
was still an assistants like Ms Elliott d m X
my second year off. Still these have transformed them in
(40:40):
my life. So I had to give them shout out.
And then there they were the folks that William Morrison
didn't come up from our community. Dave wy Shutter was
a big part of that. Guy named John Folman, a
lady named Nicole David, They all and others, but Dave
in particularly the transformative part. Even as part got in Ramsay.
Poor guy he had to deal with being his assistant,
(41:04):
but I could promoted off of his desk and the
opportunity to be on his desk. I learned a lot
from him, you know, and I was a terrible assistant.
I tried really hard, but Ransles was three years and
Rand was three years younger than me. I got promoted.
I got promote off for ramss desk and we're still
friends that you know to this day. And you know,
(41:25):
opportunity and and there were people that just mentor to
support of me. So I know it's a lot of
waymakers are shouted out, but I just felt compelled I
throughout those names. Final question, Charles, what's the next with
Charles King and Macram. Well, let's see, we're seven and
a half years and we have our five core businesses.
(41:47):
There's our content studio, film, TV and Digital. We have
our representation Vertical which you know and mediate represents massive
movie stars and filmmakers. And there's a group called on
Common that represents the digital media influencers UM and then
we've got our creative agency brand Macro. So those are
core verticals. What you'll see is they're gonna each of
(42:09):
those areas are gonna scale, They're gonna continue to get bigger,
the Macro brand is that you know, we've we've had
lots of critical a claim where you're gonna see our
larger range of projects, more commercial projects. In additional critical acclaim,
We've got a couple of majing things coming out this fall,
like this big sci fi movie called They Clone Tyrone
with Jamie Fox and John Boyega in Tiana Parish. That's
(42:30):
gonna be it's just so dope. This amazing filmmaker named
Duel Taylor. We are working with Alan Hughes on a
five part docuseries about Tupac um that with the Tupac family.
This this brilliant Alan Hughes is brilliant and we were
were a epy on that. And then we just have
a wide slate of projects. It will start coming out.
(42:52):
I would say that you're just gonna see Macro continue
to scale and continue to grow and continue to have impact,
create amazing content with the spectrum of our stories. Um
and we're just getting started. We're only like fifty people
now and we're it will be We'll be definitely continuing
(43:13):
to scale and become a much larger institution than what
we are right now. Well, Charles King, thank you so much. Man,
this this has been amazing, What an amazing journey thus far.
You have been blessed, and you have recognized your waymakers,
(43:35):
and you are a waymaker yourself. And we thank you
for sharing, you know, just this early part of your
journey and story, and we look forward to get together
with you again to sort of continue, uh telling your
journey and how you're impacting not only the entertainment business,
but black and brown communities. Thank you so much, absolutely
(43:55):
thank you for having me, Louis, and thank you for
everything that you're you're doing for our community and showing
the excellence of our community. I really appreciate you. Thank you,
I'm Louis Carr, host of the Blueprint Connect podcast. The
Blueprint Connect podcast is an extension of the Blueprint Men Suffer,
where we have consistently given men a prescription book not
just for themselves, but also for their families and their communities.
During these podcasts, we will educate and motivate our listeners
(00:22):
about entrepreneurship, careers, finances, health and wellness, and relationship. We
have the pleasure of having throngs d Keen Seal and
the founder of Macro. Thank you, Louis, and thank you
for having me. I'm really honored love everything that you're
doing and who you are, who you're speaking to, and
(00:45):
it's it's it's absolutely my pleasure to be here today.
Thank you so much. Charles. You've had this amazing career
that doesn't show any sign of a slowdown, having worked
with people like Tyler Perry, Open for Winfrey, Terence. How
would being a part of some of the biggest movies
(01:06):
in Hollywood. But before we get there, let's take you
all the way back to the Kata, Georgia and tell
us about your upbringing outside of the A T M.
And how was that growing up in that particular time
and tell us about your dreams as a young man. Yeah, okay,
(01:28):
So my my family moved south when when we were
pretty young, we stopped off. I was born in Harlem,
but moved south. Uh when I was four. We stopped
off in North Carolina for a few years and then
we moved down to Atlanta and moved to the Decatur
and playing a routes there from the time I was
eight years old on. So I considered at home and
(01:50):
my father, my father's remedian. My mother is from New York. Uh.
They met while my father was at Howard and Howard
Medical School and uh, and he started dating on his
classmates daughter. And that's the so my uncle was also
there how a medical schools. So I had, you know,
upbringing there in in while growing up indicator with my
(02:13):
mother who grew up in New York, my father who's Bermudian,
So you know, we were but we're in the South.
And it was interesting when we moved to Decatur, the
the the area of Decator, the suburban area that we're
in and in South Dacab we really got the experience
an interesting ship that happened. We were one of the
first black families that moved to that neighborhood. And then
(02:35):
as as the years went by, we saw the neighborhood transition.
You know, we've heard of that term white flight. Well
I saw a white flight happen, like those first one
when I was like eight to like twelve or so,
most of the kids in the neighborhood where white kids,
and I saw it more black families moved to the neighborhood.
White families started like packing up and leaving. And it
was interesting seeing that transition in elementary school and definitely
(02:58):
when I got to high school at the Southwest Calf
High School, uh, when I was in the eighth grade,
because the eighth through twelfth grade uh school. When I
was in the eighth grade, uh, most of the people
in the junior like who were juniors and seniors, I'd
say over half of them, if not, you know, i'd
say sixty of those classes were white. By the time
(03:19):
I was a sophomore, our school was like nineties black
and I just saw, I saw this shift happen. And
the great thing for me was I grew up. It's
really at a school. I went to a public you know,
primarily black high school, but you know, early days there
too a lot of my friends. I played soccer and tennis.
(03:41):
A lot of the kids were white, you know, a
lot of my early friends. And I really grew up
with in a background where I had all kinds of friends.
But but I had a family and my mother who's
like really an activist, you know, writer, artists, who was
really about the people. Uh So I grew up with
that and still than me and my father had this
(04:02):
um you know, that kind of British influence growing up
in Bermuda. But it was also you know, started his
own practice as a as a as a pediatrician, and
I was able to see early on for him what
it's like to have your own business. And I really
it didn't dawn on me two years later what that
was like being exposed to my dad building his own
(04:22):
practice and you know, day by day, week by week,
but he you know, calling his own you know, having
his own hours. He was my soccer coach, he was
my tennis coach. My mother was a stay at home
you know mother. She worked out of the home, but
while she was working, you know, while we were in school,
she would be writing her book. So I had just
a very had a wonderful childhood. My sisters two years
(04:46):
younger than me. We were in all kinds of activities,
and you know, I had a very blessed childhood. But
also what I experienced my my parents got divorced when
I was in the eighth and ninth grade somewhere in there,
and that's when I some of the shift of having
some adversity, you know, began to happen where um, you know,
(05:07):
we ended up, you know, having a joint custody um
situation where in my basically ten through twelfth grade, I
lived half of the year with my father, my sister,
and I, and then I would go to see my
mother every other weekend and half of the year with
my mother, and I would see my father every other weekend.
So I was blessing that even though they got divorced,
I had both of my parents very actively involved in
(05:29):
my life. And I see that the impact that that's
had and how well that me and my sister have
done as a result of this incredible parenting and what
they instilled in us. But also what I experienced was
my father being a physician, and with the divorce that
they went through, I didn't have that super spoon. Your
dad's a doctor, experience man. I had jopped from the
(05:52):
time I was thirteen, cut and grass, babysit and worked
at his office, summer counselor, maintenance man, stock wary as
at wall at a convenience store, retail sales. Like I
worked my ass off, and it was really instilled early
on and didn't do the Jack and Jill and a
lot of those things that like a lot of you know,
(06:14):
maybe other kind of maybe more upper middle class black
folks were doing. So I really was so something about
that work ethic and what was it stilled early on
in me? I think that that's been applied towards my
my my educational background and my thirst and desire to
make sure I'm achieving and the hunger that I've had,
(06:38):
and so it probably impacted me. And so I think,
you know, during the during the college, during those years,
I knew that education was important and yuys I was
able to get a great scholarship to Vanderbilt University, which
is where I went for my undergraduate studies, and um,
so much of my guy in life and career and
(06:59):
and really complicated to transform from there. So so Charles
on a step back to the high school, whill you
say it transition from a white high school to a
black high school. Did see when you think back and
look back, did the degree of excellence and academics did
(07:19):
that change because of that or not it did? It
still stay at a very high level. The excellence was
instilled in me from home. You know that we My
mother was an at a reader. My father obviously was
a physician, and he would had you know, was a
really great student all through school. And so there was
a thing for me of like, I wanted to do well,
(07:43):
I wanted to see but it was also instilled in
me with my parents that I could achieve anything. What
also happened is not something I I don't know if
I've even talked about this publicly. When we first moved
to the neighborhood, it was at the same time bussing
was happening where um that because the neighborhood was white
the first moved and so they were there were a
couple of the um neighborhoods that were primarily black where
(08:05):
there were busting kids to areas that have more UM
integration within the schools. And so we when I came
to school right around the same time that was happening,
and you know that whole thing where they try to
track students and they put you and place you bagger,
like what level are you performing on academically? While I
got placed in the lower level tracking starting in the
(08:28):
third grade. And that's where it matters about how your
parents are advocating for you, because my my mother was like,
what the hell are you saying? My son is capable?
And basically from third grade all the way through eighth grade,
it was a push in a battle of getting lift
pushed and elevated to the appropriate academic levels. And part
(08:50):
of it was they tried to track and put all
the black students in the lower track, and my parents,
my mother in particular, was advocating to make sure that
didn't happen to her son. So I think by the
time I got the high school I was it was
just reinforced and instilled in me where I was just
working extra hard and making make sure I was going
(09:10):
to succeed. Now here's the thing that I found out
later on when I was an adult, was that, oh,
I actually as a as a after I had gone
to you know, college at Vanderbilt, and I went to
Howard Law School as an adult, successful executive was when
I actually did get tested and I was like, oh,
I had a h D. I overcompensated with the just
(09:37):
the extra work, the amount of hours and a reinforcement
of excellence to get to the place to exceeds as
I did through high school, college and to graduate and
make it through law school. It didn't even realize that
that was a condition that I had. So so so, Charles,
why Howard law school instead of Howard medical schools? Your
(09:58):
dad was a doctor, right, I can tell you exactly.
I remember that like it was yesterday. It was doubling
up in in um science in high school, thinking maybe
I'd be a physician. I thought two things, perhaps going
into medicine or I'm gonna go into business. Those are
my two ideas now. I I broadly when I thought business,
(10:18):
I thought stockbroker. I had. I didn't really no business,
but I had an entrepreneurial sort of business mindset. But
then also my father being a physician, I thought that
perhaps that By the time I got the Vanderbilt and
I took that my my first couple of science classes,
I quickly was like, I'm not I'm not going to
(10:39):
medical school. This is not my passion, and then I
think it was an econ one oh one. I felt,
you know what, I like political science, So that's what
I ended up settling in with. So I didn't go either,
although I apply business to what I'm doing with scaling
and as a CEO of Macro. But those were a
couple of those ideas of early career tractor that I
(11:01):
perhaps thought that I was gonna go down. Now. I
was gonna ask you this off the record, but since
we're here right now, i'll tell you what. I was
looking at your background and I saw Vanderbilt, and I
knew you had with the law school, and I just glanced.
I assume that h was gonna say Harvard versus Howard.
(11:21):
Did the Harvard ever crossed your mind as a path?
Or did because of your dad and your uncle? You
said it's gotta be how Well, I went to Vanderbilt
and they called they called that Vanderbilt being to the
Harvard and South or Harvard and eventil the north or
something like that. Right, I'm someone who does, who is
(11:45):
really learns by doing, and so I would say that
I did my earlier years at Vanderbilt. I did. I
just kind of struggled and then my my academics and
my grades went up as the years proceeded. But I
didn't necessarily have I didn't have extraordinary grades at Vanderbilt.
So I think when I was looking at grad schools,
perhaps I could have looked at it at Harvard Law,
(12:08):
but I don't think that's where I was headed, right.
And but then I also looked at what kind of
life experience I wanted. And I worked for two years
in the corporate world after Vanderbilt, and I was working
for the Sports and fire into company in UH there
was based out of Stanford, Connecticut. This fortune fither in
company called champion Are National, was a paper company. I
(12:30):
was the only senior. I was the one only like
African American executive. I like three thousand people in this
division of the company. I was placed in their Cincinnati,
Ohio office, and I had a five states serious sales
territory of Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, Ohio, and West Virginia and
not the big cities like Indianapolis and Cincinnati, all the
(12:51):
little ones in between. Suffice to say, after a year
and a half of that, and I was looking and
applying to two law schools, Howard Give and it was
already in my blood, the legacy in the in the
history of Howard. Also, I was very interested in thinking
about civil rights as well. Thirdgood Marshall and how many
other incredible titans have gone to Howard. I wanted that
(13:13):
as part of my legacy. So when I was accepted
to Howard Law, I was hands down my number one choice.
And uh and and also wanted the the experience of
being in an HBCU, being in in Washington, d C.
At Howard University of Howard Law. It was. It was
an incredibly rewarding experience and definitely one of the highlights
(13:34):
of my young of my in my younger years. So um,
I loved it. There. We'll be right back with more
of my interview after this quick break. So let's jump
(13:55):
Charles to the iconic William Morris. Okay, I don't let
you tell our audience how iconic William Morris's. I'm in
the business, so I know it, but I don't let
you describe how iconic this agency is within the entertainment industry.
So the William Morris Agency is the oldest of all
(14:20):
of the entertainment institutions. Um that you know, back even
back to even the vaudeville days, you know, in the
silent movies and people performing on stage. Started in New York.
Then then they opened an office in Los Angeles. UH,
and by the time I landed in the William Morris
mel Room, I think they were at their nine year
(14:42):
of doing business by the time I landed in the
William Morris mel Ram. And I did a lot of
research when I was at Howard Law and looking at
my career path and wanting to mesh my interests around
entertainment and content as well as my interest in building
a business and launching a media for me. One day
and I looked at all the different paths and I
(15:03):
looked at I thought about private equity. I looked at
and thought about if I practiced law, and I went
to the business side of things. But then I learned
about this agency world. And what I learned was how
many typans of industry, people that are multi billionaires that
have built media company, you know, people like Barry Diller
and David Geffen, heads of a lot of the studios.
(15:23):
Famous people like the first black agent was famous Amos
was It was the first black agent, UH, the William
Morris Agency. And so I thought, well, look, if I
went into this space, got the experience, UM learned about
the industry from the ground floor, that one day being
an artist advocate and an agent representative, that one day
(15:46):
that would be equipped with the tools and the resources
and the experience to then what one day launched and
build my own company. And I thought that that would
be the perfect set of my interests and skill set
having a creative interest in lean and I'm really good
at identifying talent, my corporate and sales experience that I had,
you know, in between undergraduate and law school, and also
(16:08):
some of the like UM sales experience and uh third
party marketing experience I had in undergrad and then couple
with my legal background and training in my law degree
from Howard, that all of that together felt like like
went into the world of being an agent, did I would?
I would do extraordinarily well and UM. But the thing
that I also learned was you've got to start from
(16:31):
the ground floor. You can literally you start in the
mail room. And that's exactly what I did, like a
real half. You know, I've seen that over and over
stories about you. So on our side of the business,
they call up an agency. You gotta start in the pit.
So the mail room like the pit. The mail room
is like the pit. It's or if you're on Wall Street,
(16:51):
it's like your start out as an analyst, right, you know, like, uh,
but it's it's um, it's what you pay your dues
underbrad degree. It depends. It varies for me from mail
room to floater. Like before I actually landed in an area,
it was nine months for me. And you're literally working
(17:12):
like nine a week running around delivery mail, go for uh,
you know, reading scripts at night, UM, immersing yourself in
the understanding of the bottom of the business, and then
you work from you know, all the way up. And
it's honestly, it's prestigious and hard to get in, especially
(17:33):
back then when I started, I was the only on
the film and television side of our training program. I
was the only one when I landed there did that
was the only one at that time in film and TV.
There were a couple of my brothers who were UM
in the music pro program, and UM, what I learned
there was that I when I actually did get promoted
(17:56):
two and a half years into it, I think I
was the first African American to start in the trainee
program and become a film and television agent. That that
was the first time. And then when I became partner
years later, it was the pub became the first partner
in the history of any one of the larger major
talent agencies. I was, you know, there was now thankfully
(18:16):
there's there's several others and many others that have come.
But but when it did, when I did get promoted,
it was historical. And that was in a hundred and
one years when I got promoted, and then when I
became agent, it was maybe another it's another set, but
a partner with another seven or saving years after that. So, Charles,
I want to I want to fause right here because
(18:38):
and I want you to speak to a lot of
the millennials on the audience and some of those who
are pushing through that gen Z demographic right now. They said,
I wouldn't have did that. I got a law degree,
all right, I ain't no where in the hell I'm
starting off in the male room. I ain't got no
patience for that. It ain't enough. Hey, I'm not doing that.
(19:01):
Speak to those people, well, I would, I would say,
do your research in every industry, in every field, there's
there are different paths, and look, there's no one way
of getting there. But I also understood some of the
hurdles for us that we have to work ten times harder,
were ten times smarter. We have to you know, be
savvy and how we navigate through all of the world
(19:22):
that we're in and and all of us have gotten
to where we are by doing that. I also knew
that there if we try to skip a step, like hey,
let me jump this and skip that step, that you
could try to do it um and I saw people
who tried to do it. But what ended up happening
to many who did try to skip a step is
inevitably someone would said, well they got there just because
(19:43):
or they didn't put in the work, and then they
wouldn't have the longevity. I knew in order I had
the longevity, every one of them needed to see me
go from the ground floor up just like they did.
I need to do better than all the folks I
started with and keep excelling the way we always do
and be smart about it. And only way I could
make it through it was honest. There was so much
community support, the people that blaze a trail before me,
(20:06):
that had cracked, cracked enough holes in the windows and
and provided enough community support, my family support, uh, and
then frankly, other people that mentored me, that saw something
in me. Similar to conversations we're having where the people
saw something in you. There are people from our community
that saw something in me. There were lawyers and other
(20:26):
folks in the industry. There were a few of the
clients of the agency that said, why isn't there a
brother there? We liked this brother Charles, you know, why
isn't he on the desk yet? And then also too,
there were people that outside of our community that I
connected with it mentor me that saw something in me
as well. And it was the combination of all of
those things, me doing my part, and then the last
(20:47):
pieces I would say was God and my belief and
my faith that also helped take me through it. So
my word to the gen Z millennials is you gotta
do your part. You gotta do your part. You got
to pay your dues now. You don't have to necessarily
boil away for twenty years the way perhaps the older generation,
even generations older than me, had to. But you're still
(21:09):
gonna have to pay some dudes, and you're gonna you know,
have to be smart about it, and otherwise it's just it.
The likelihood of success isn't is much more challenging if
you don't pay your dues. And it's something about committing yourself,
being humble and being willing to roll up your sleeve. Uh.
And and then yes, it can still happen for you
(21:31):
in the early years in the twenties, but you still
got to pay your dues at some point. So so Charles,
when when you reach your story, you go from the
mail room, you you become an agent and film and TV.
And then all these names started coming up, like and
Tyler Perry and Janet Jackson and Terrence Holloway and Andre
(21:54):
three thousand and Michael B. Jordan's how does that happen?
If I'm the guy in college sitting in the barbershop
and you walk in, I'm gonna look like now he
looked like me, kind of act like me. But I
don't know, Oprah, I don't know Tyler Perry, how did
you get those relationships? How did that happen? For well,
(22:19):
with everyone, every one of the relationships of different artists
and people that have been blessed to work with, there's
a story behind every one of them. I'd say the
biggest thing was every media figure, artist, celebrity. They're incredibly
talented and so unique and special with with how they've
gotten to where they are in their careers. But they're
(22:39):
people just like you and I, and they're connecting with
people on a human level and being able to understand
their goals and their dreams and vision and then being
someone who wants to be in support and the furtherest
of it. And by being in a place like the
William Morris Agency that had this legacy and traditional weight
(22:59):
behind it, and I got fixed the experience and the
skill set to understand how our industry works. And so
then I would get to know and build relationship with
artists to then here and listen to understand what they
were looking to do in their careers and their vision
for what they wanted to accomplish. And then I could
(23:19):
then put a plan in place and utilize the collective
resources of this massive of that massive institution to work
to help fulfill and in the way that we could
as agents UH to help them accomplish their goals UH
and what those projects would be and how to negotiate
those deals alongside their attorneys. And so I would say
(23:43):
that there was there's a through line for me of
identifying artists before they became as prominent in their field
as they are now. So you know, when my first
year as an agent, um, I was introduced to this
incredibly talented producer promoter named Walter Latham. He's the gentleman
(24:06):
that that that was. He was the same age that
I was at the time of thirty my first year
is an agent, and he promoted the Kings of Comedy tour.
And I was in one of my colleagues in our
music book groups that this guy, Walter Latham wants to
become a film producer and he's going to make this
movie by the Kings of Comedy. I we went on,
(24:27):
we signed him and I became his main agent. I
was six months into be an agent then. But one
of the first things we did was when he was
putting The King to the Comedy movie together. Spike Lee
was a director, and I get it was added to
Spike Lee's team as a young agent because Spike Lee
said to his agents, where are the brothers? Where are
the brothers? And and I had met his agent, Dave
(24:49):
worshafter who has been a great friend and a mentor
through the years. And he met me before I got promoted,
and I laid out my plan envision, and he and
Jim Wyatt were the ones who promoted me. And then
I got added the Spike's team, and Spike was the
director of that film. After the success of it, Walter said, Hey,
there's this guy named Tyler Perry. Have you ever heard
of him? And he sent me some DVDs of his plays.
(25:12):
He had never done any film or TV. I watched
the players, are like, wow, this is interesting. But then
I'll be honest with you. Was when I was at
a couple of family unions in Atlanta and some barbershops
in l A. And I would just, you know, shoot
the breeze with my barber From literally the moment I
had just moved to l A. I said, Man, this
is gentleman named Tyler Perry. I just saw these plays
and man, he's got this huge audience from it. He
(25:34):
was like the lady in three Rolls down, said Tyler Perry.
I was like, what you know him? They were like
and they started telling all these things about these plays
and how big and it was clear what a massive
audience he had, but it had been brought in the
film and TV. So then we put a team together.
I was the young agent we started working with Tyler.
I was part of it, you know, made the calls,
(25:56):
connected him with the studio. So it was before it
was early on Diva Mad Black Woman and putting together
that deal and introducing the line, get negotiating this transformative
thing and the television deals we did after that, it
was early on. Now he's Tyler Perry like the mogul,
and he always was, but he had the idea in
(26:18):
the vision. I was happy to be in the agency
and could be part of like helping to be a
part of being a conduit. And so I could just
go on and on with the story from Andre Benjamin
before you Hey, y'all broke when he said, Hey, I'm
this big rapper, but I want to you know, Ryan Coogler.
I remember sitting down with him literally our first two
hour meeting in my office, and he was and we
(26:41):
were read fruit Biale station. My colleague Craig Castell was like,
he's special, and I met him too. We talked for
two hours and shared things that I hadn't literally told
anyone in our industry about some of my career journey.
I'm not surprised at all that he's had the career
T had. I knew then how specially it was. I
knew how well fruit Station. He told me the idea
(27:01):
for Creed. We connected him with Sylvester Salone. So my
only point in my answer to your question is I
would also have division. I met so many of these
artists before they became stuff. What part of being their team?
So folks like Oprah came later in my career when
when she you know, me and a team of of
(27:22):
agents started working with her, and so that was you know,
she'd are she was already Oprah that point. And at
that point, I'm pinching myself, like, what a blessed life
to hear it is that I get to work with
Oprah Winfrey and as she was building out and and
beginning to produce more film, and I could be, you know,
(27:43):
the point person on her film side of her her team.
So um, each one of the stories are different, but
I would say that most of the artists I was
earlier in their careers, icons like Princeton, Janet Jackson, and
and Oprah, I came in later, but then I was
the you know, new blood, bringing in a different energy
to what they were looking to do and further their
(28:06):
their missions. So so as you just mentioned this word vision,
and I don't want to ask you the same question
I asked Bob Johnson. Is it inherent or is it learned?
I'd say a combination, but that I have a gift
(28:28):
of under seeing things and then the intuition of identifying
uniquely positioned artists and people, because there's identification and identifying executives,
and I have a track record of young people I've
mentored or you know, hired or been a part of
(28:52):
building at at Macro Filmmakers Multi Hyphen It's entrepreneurs of
seeing something special someone just like they saw people who
saw it in me, and then also working to help
support and cultivate that. It's one thing to identify, but
then you also have to work to be a part
of helping to shape and advance. And so I was
(29:12):
able to do that as an as an agent, I'm
doing that and me and my colleagues and partners are
doing that from Macro with the work we've done with
the incredible filmmakers that we've financed and produced their their projects,
um and so. But then part of it is learned
because the educational background, the years of the ground ranking
(29:34):
from mail room up and my years of negotiating deals,
my years of called and negotiations and packaging projects with
every one of the film and television studio. So part
of it is the business side. You can have an intuition,
but if you don't know how to execute, what does
that matter. So I've been able to do both the
(29:55):
combination of the two, but you've got to have the
vision first. We'll be right back with more of my
interview after this quick break. So earlier in the conversation,
(30:16):
Charles you you you're talking about being able to do
a lot of different things and that you had the
confidence in your own ability to be able to do
things that maybe you were just starting out and you've
never done before. What gave you that confidence? What gives
you that confidence today, Uh, to say hey, I can
(30:37):
do that, because in our community a lot of people
don't have that confidence. I believe it was instilled early on.
I think early on people telling me what I couldn't do,
particularly folks not from our community, experiencing racism early on
(30:57):
when I was eight years old and someone tried to
track me in the you know, lower lower learning UH
deficiency group. Um having mother saying that's what they're saying.
You can do whatever it is you want to do
in life. Honestly, I've always been, always been underestimated, always
from from elementary school, high school, maybe even college, probably
(31:23):
even law school. More every time, even now with Macro,
I can tell you with a surety, when I first launched,
there were people like, oh, that's great, Charles, Okay, we'll
see how that goes. Seven and a half years later,
fifteen Academy Award nominations, you know how we've scaled as
(31:45):
a company. There were folks who just had no idea
and honestly don't realize we're just getting started. So um,
where does that confidence come? I think it was instilled
in me from my parents early life experiences, the fortitude,
and then also man my faith. You know, my my
(32:05):
both my parents are are people of faith, and it
was just then upbringing and and and then also to
being myself. My grandmother the vice she gave me before
I jumped in my U All truck and drove out here.
By the way, my grandmother lived with us too, from
a time I was eight years old. So also had
(32:26):
you know, a second grandmother in the house too, who
was very much a part of my upbringing, and she
was just like, Charls, go out there and be yourself.
They'll have to love you. And honestly, from from mail
room to partner to CEO of Macro, I maintained that
and tried my best to stay exactly who I am
(32:50):
and not be swayed by the Hollywood swirl of the
scenes going on around me and try to keep that
center and my family and at the center of of
of keeping my compass. Now, Charles, you guys represent agents.
You you get deals done, you also finance some of
(33:11):
these deals. Tell us about that portion. Why did you
kind of click? And so I want to do this now?
How did you go? I knew in launching um, in
launching Macro, that that we were not looking to be
a just producers for hire. We're building a media company
(33:33):
of the future, which as part of this multi platform
media company, one of our plat one of the divisions
is our student our content studios, both film, television and
digital content, and that we needed to have not only
capital to develop projects, but also to finance productions that
(33:54):
in order for our for us to be empowered, to
be able to tell our stories from our community. You're
not empowered if you only can tell a story by
going to one of the major eight studios and having
them green light something and tell you how it should
be done. And here's the small allocated but it we
needed to come from a place of being empowered in
(34:16):
order to tell these stories, or to at least in
most cases, come to the table and sit alongside of
them and say, why don't we make this story like
with the way we made Judas in The Black Messiah,
where we said, look, we're we're gonna put a path
at a capital for the film, why don't you put
up the other half and then we will utilize your distribution,
(34:37):
which is what we did with Warner Brothers with Judas
and Black Messiah. Coming to the table with project package
with incredible partner Ryan Coogler who brought us the project
in Shaka King and the brilliant filmmaker who you know
co wrote the script and directed it. The power of
coming together on it with our capital and utilizing the
amazing team at Warner Brothers and distribution as how the
(34:59):
movie was made so authentically and unapologetically is because we
weren't just like, hey, can we develop this and please
green light this one day and help us make it?
And so I I started out Macro, We went and
raised capital. We have incredible partners and that's where we
came from in terms of being able to do that.
(35:20):
The second thing, in addition to what we were doing
to build our media company and to be able to
finance and produce content across all the platforms, was I
understood that there was a need for others and that
there's a there's a lack of access to capital, and
that so much of all of the innovation and economic
clout that's going to happen in transformation from our communities
(35:44):
is coming from what's happening in the venture and technology space.
So what we did is we use some of our
seed capital and in addition to building Macro, we started
making strategic investments in companies that were aligned with our
mission and operating in areas that were centered gistick to us,
but we're different than what we're building. Those investments were
incredibly successful. And then I created a partnership with two
(36:07):
amazing partners um Adrian Fenty and Mike Palin was part
of our founding team, and we launched an early stage
fund and and then then we had a second fund
and look, those funds did extraordinarily well. And then that
that my partners joined forces with another partner and have
a much larger fund. So we're on like fund for
(36:28):
that's I can't announce the number, but the third fund
was a hundred and ten millions. Of the last fund
will will which will hopefully they will announce one day,
will be even larger. And I will just say that
those founders of those companies are our companies led by
(36:49):
women and people of color, and that is going to
have a transformative impact on our communities. And so yes,
we're building macwell, but I understood the uniqueness of the
platform what we're building, but I wanted to also be
a part of creating change globally economically for people of color,
which is also part of our mission. Charles we here
(37:09):
way maker believe that every successful person has had way
makers of your makers. Who are people to help make
the way. Who are people who help make the way? Well?
I keep saying it, but God, definitely my parents, you
know when King Dr King in Atlanta, my mom Francis King.
My sister, Yeah, my sister, who's a who's a counselor,
(37:32):
she's a psychology she's a doctor, Dr Lynn. She actually
just co authored her first book about you know, uh,
mental the need for proper mental care for for for
black women. UM, my grandmother, you know, uh, my family.
Now in addition to that, there's my family now, my
(37:54):
wife Stacy, who's my partner, my life partner, like every
move everything that we and we've been in partnership on
the last twenty one years and even the five years
we did before then. Um, and and my and my
and our and our two sons who are fifteen and thirteen.
I would say I've had great mentors. I've been so
(38:14):
blessed with great mentors. Um In during my time in
law school, when I met Tanya Heidelberg, who you may
know Thania Heidelberg Yacht was a she was a VP
at MTV. I wrote it this crazy letter, four page letter.
Her assistant Patty, who I remember to this day how
amazing she was, let me take an informational meeting with
(38:36):
with Tanya that turned into my internship at MTV. The
summer between my second and third year law school, it
was transformative from my life. We were talking earlier on
our internship programs, right, Louis, She's the one who provided
the internship for me. Did helps show how big the
world the opportunities there. I didn't know about agencies before then.
(38:56):
I thought, Hey, maybe I'm gonna be the entertainment lawyer.
It really my afgre that summer of when so much
was happening at the height of of hip hop. I
remember going to Biggie Small Flatinum party the first time
I met Diddy, like it just it really inspired me.
It had it made a difference. Tanya Heidelberg one thousand
(39:18):
percent was a way maker from me, and UH made
a huge impact. And um when I would say, I
didn't get to know Bob Johnson until recently, but I
tell you what I was in law school Washington, d C.
And BT being centered there and his story and what
he and his team and Debra Lee and all of
(39:38):
you guys. The inspiration I took from BT. I tried
to get internships. I couldn't, but now look at how
I'm like friends with with with with with Bob and
Debra Lee. I pitched myself sometimes like I actually personally
know these types they've im Afar had a huge impact
on my trajectory. Reginald Lewis, I read what Washing White
(40:00):
have all the fun I can't it. You don't put
my mind to the financial sector and the impact that
m and A raising capital could have it building a
company one day. And then when I moved to l
A there were loss of greeting in the team of
lawyers and folks that that that were great waymakers. Dal
(40:20):
Miller was one of them. Nina Shaw is another. They
really opened up doors when I was in that mail
that mail run time. There was Louise West, my law
school classmate, Matt Middleton who sent me clients when I
was still an assistants like Ms Elliott d m X
my second year off. Still these have transformed them in
(40:40):
my life. So I had to give them shout out.
And then there they were the folks that William Morrison
didn't come up from our community. Dave wy Shutter was
a big part of that. Guy named John Folman, a
lady named Nicole David, They all and others, but Dave
in particularly the transformative part. Even as part got in Ramsay.
Poor guy he had to deal with being his assistant,
(41:04):
but I could promoted off of his desk and the
opportunity to be on his desk. I learned a lot
from him, you know, and I was a terrible assistant.
I tried really hard, but Ransles was three years and
Rand was three years younger than me. I got promoted.
I got promote off for ramss desk and we're still
friends that you know to this day. And you know,
(41:25):
opportunity and and there were people that just mentor to
support of me. So I know it's a lot of
waymakers are shouted out, but I just felt compelled I
throughout those names. Final question, Charles, what's the next with
Charles King and Macram. Well, let's see, we're seven and
a half years and we have our five core businesses.
(41:47):
There's our content studio, film, TV and Digital. We have
our representation Vertical which you know and mediate represents massive
movie stars and filmmakers. And there's a group called on
Common that represents the digital media influencers UM and then
we've got our creative agency brand Macro. So those are
core verticals. What you'll see is they're gonna each of
(42:09):
those areas are gonna scale, They're gonna continue to get bigger,
the Macro brand is that you know, we've we've had
lots of critical a claim where you're gonna see our
larger range of projects, more commercial projects. In additional critical acclaim,
We've got a couple of majing things coming out this fall,
like this big sci fi movie called They Clone Tyrone
with Jamie Fox and John Boyega in Tiana Parish. That's
(42:30):
gonna be it's just so dope. This amazing filmmaker named
Duel Taylor. We are working with Alan Hughes on a
five part docuseries about Tupac um that with the Tupac family.
This this brilliant Alan Hughes is brilliant and we were
were a epy on that. And then we just have
a wide slate of projects. It will start coming out.
(42:52):
I would say that you're just gonna see Macro continue
to scale and continue to grow and continue to have impact,
create amazing content with the spectrum of our stories. Um
and we're just getting started. We're only like fifty people
now and we're it will be We'll be definitely continuing
(43:13):
to scale and become a much larger institution than what
we are right now. Well, Charles King, thank you so much. Man,
this this has been amazing, What an amazing journey thus far.
You have been blessed, and you have recognized your waymakers,
(43:35):
and you are a waymaker yourself. And we thank you
for sharing, you know, just this early part of your
journey and story, and we look forward to get together
with you again to sort of continue, uh telling your
journey and how you're impacting not only the entertainment business,
but black and brown communities. Thank you so much, absolutely
(43:55):
thank you for having me, Louis, and thank you for
everything that you're you're doing for our community and showing
the excellence of our community. I really appreciate you. Thank you,
Host
Louis Carr
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