Adam Alpert

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
My guest today is the Chain Smokers manager Adam Out Adam, Hi, Okay,
you're in l A. Chain Smokers are playing the Forum.
Are you just how often would you go to a
gig by your act an arena gig? Yeah, any gig

(00:29):
I go to about probably probably this tour, probably a
quarter of the shows. And why do you decide to
go or not go? The first few of the last
few New York, l A and Seattle because that's where
my in laws are from. So the in laws and
Thanksgiving on this particular trip. Yeah, we're doing Thanksgiving in
Seattle and then the guys show up. They're like four

(00:49):
days later. So I'm staying for the whole thing. So
how did you meet your wife? She's from Seattle. She
lived in New York, but just through a friend. Okay,
So did you become the manager of the Chain Smokers? Well,
that's a loaded question. Um well I actually introduced them
to each other right now. We were talking about this
a few months ago, So let's talk about how you

(01:10):
did that kind of slowly. Sure, so out of college, Um,
I ended up working in a nightclub, hospitality business. I
was running nightclub. You went to pen but what did
you what did you major in pen? Premat pretty bad? Okay,
so at what point did you say, I'm not gonna
go on that track. What happened was I was promoting parties,

(01:32):
you know, when I was in college, and you know,
it's fun and you make money, and um, while I
was studying for pre met, I was just like studying
for the MCATs, and I was just like, this is
really what I want to do for the next god
knows however many years and I just said, you know what,
this isn't This isn't what I love it, but it's
not what I want to do with the rest of

(01:53):
my life. And I became more and more enamored with
the hospitality business and boutique hotels and exclusive restaurants, and
I ended up where a lot of people in the
music industry today started as a nightclub promoter. Okay, let's
go back. Did you take the m cats? Never took him?
Never took him. I remember when I was in college,

(02:13):
I signed up for the l S a T. My
friends knocked on my door and they said, you're not
taking that. Let's go to Montreal. And we did. That's
what they called it Montreal, although I ended up taking
after it broke my leg a year later. But uh well,
I brought my m CAT book to the bar. Really yeah,
And then my friends were like, what are you doing?

(02:34):
And what did your parents say when you weren't going
to take the m CAT Honestly, like, they didn't put
any pressure on me to be a doctor in the
first place, so they really just were like, you know,
whatever you want to do. Um. I think there were
a few years after I was a nightclub promoter that
they were hoping I had taken them cats so I
could revisit it. But because I didn't, I couldn't. Okay,

(02:55):
when I went to college before you, the big you
know what separated the real candidates from the failures was
organic KEM. Okay, so if you took organic chem and
but what did you do well in all those classes?
I did really really well in the bio classes. Organic
chem is hard for everyone. I think I did like

(03:16):
decent in the first level, and then as the levels
of organic KEM got harder and harder, I did worse
and worse. But theoretically, if you've got a reasonable score
on the M guide. Were they good enough to get in? Yeah? Okay, okay,
So what was the first party you promoted? The first
party I promoted was with two of my high school buddies.

(03:36):
We went to a bar one night and the because
you're growing up in Manhattan, yes, born and raised in Manhattan, okay,
and where do you go to school in Manhattan? To
high school? To harst Man and um, we went to
this bar. I'm gonna speed through this because there's so
much better stuff later in my life. But we went
to this bar on the Upper West Side and they

(03:57):
had beds and I and I was like, this is
so cool. They have beds in this bar. We gotta
throw a party here. But what were the beds for?
It was just like instead of tables with couches, they
had beds that you could lie on. And I found
the owner and I said, my buddy and I want
to throw um a party here. We'll bring the people,
and he said, okay, you will keep whatever the you

(04:22):
make at the door, and I'll keep whatever I make
at the bar. Okay. So you're in high school, your
how old? Okay? What inspired you to even do this?
I just thought the place. I thought the place was cool.
I was really into just like restaurants and bars and hotels.

(04:42):
I just found that stuff really cool. And I knew
that we could do it because we were going out
on the weekends two bars, you know, on the Upper
east Side and Upper west Side all the time. Anyway,
even though you weren't old enough to drink, you have
a faked yes. And there was a lot of bars,
especially on the Upper east Side on Second Avenue, a
third Avenue that let under age people drink. I don't

(05:02):
know how it is now, but this was probably what year. Yeah, um,
And so we did it the first night and they
didn't ask really guarantee, just whatever you're getting there, and
your pitch for people to go was too How did
you get the people there? I mean, when you're in

(05:24):
high school, it's if you build it, they will come,
you know what I mean? You know, maybe I went
to it, went to a public high school. But how
much did you charge? Oh my goodness, I don't remember
what we started charging. But what happened was that night,
as soon as it started, there was a line down
the block of underage kids. And the owner freaked out

(05:48):
because everybody was under age for act and he let
it happen, and we just started charging more, as like
every hour the door charge would get higher and higher
and higher. And at the end of the night, my
two buddies and I had this um like little cash
box just full of cash and and it was like
from that moment, I was like, there's like a business here. Okay.

(06:12):
But generally speaking, were you the entrepreneurial sword who was
always making money as a little kid, or was this
your first vengee? No? I was pretty entrepreneurial always um
And so somehow we got away with that night happening,
and the owner moved the party to a bigger venue
in a more remote location so that we wouldn't get

(06:32):
in trouble for future parties. And we ended up doing
it weekly for a really long time. And you know,
everybody was underage and drinking, correct, Okay. And then you
go to school at pen Why do you go to
pen Um? Well, my dad went there. It was close
to the city but not the city. Um, I had

(06:55):
a lot of friends that went there, and it was
just my high school. A lot of it's from my
high school went to Penn and so it just kind
of became like sort of tradition, and I went there,
I fell in love with it, um, and I went.
While I was there, I really fell in love with Philadelphia.
I really love that city, and it is the city
of brotherly love. But I just think it's quaint and

(07:17):
the people are so much nicer than they are in
New York. I mean, it's definitely dirty, but it's in
certain parts. But um, it's just much more relaxed and
the people are much nicer. Okay. And when you were there,
would you go back to New York regularly or just
like I did, go back regularly. Okay, So how did
you start promoting parties in college? Um? Well, I had

(07:41):
already done it, you know, so it was very simple.
I did it. If I didn't do it that much
in Philadelphia. I did it a few times in Philadelphia.
Mostly my thing was when we went home for the holidays. Um.
I would do those for all the kids that were
coming back from college for the holidays. So what my
big thing was thank is Giving Eve, which is actually

(08:01):
two days and right that was always when people come
back and they go to the body after they've gone
away from college. My my, my, my bread and butter
was Thanksgiving Eve and New Years and New Year's I
we used to do in Miami. We would take a hotel.
I did eleven years New Year's Eves in Miami. So
let's just when you ended up doing once, you know,
like you're the fourth or fifth year doing it alone,

(08:22):
or you're doing it with a partner. Um, I had
partners at that time. How much could you take away
personally from doing it New Year's Eve? What did I
make on New Year's New Year's Probably to my for myself,
probably like grand Okay, so who was paying for college?
Your father? Were you paying? Since you we're making this money?
Oh no, I wasn't making that money until after college. Okay.

(08:44):
So in annie event, you graduate, graduate from college and
you decide you want to be in the hospitality business,
you go to New York and we and you do what.
I got a job with a restaurant tour named Jonathan Moore,
who was not like the top top guy in New
York City, but he was like top four and he
was a guy I really admired. And everyone says, if

(09:06):
you want to make it into music in the restaurant business,
you have to start from the bottom up. And so
I wasn't a bus boy, but I was a host
um six days, six nights a week from four pm,
and I didn't get home till four am, six nights
a week. And because I didn't get home till four am,

(09:26):
I always slept late. So I would like, literally, wake up,
go to the restaurant, worked twelve hours, go home, go
to sleep. I had no life. I didn't see anyone.
I didn't talk to anyone. It was horrible. What was
the name of the restaurant. It was called The Out
It's no longer okay, So how long did that go on?
Three months? Three months? And I was so, let's go

(09:48):
back a little bit. You're talking about this guy. How
did you hook up with him? Um? I just I
think I applied. I applied, so there was like an
open again you got the gig? So that goes. No,
I don't think there was an opening. I sought them out.
I knew who he was, and I tried to get
a job there. And how did you close him? Um?

(10:11):
In the room? Yeah? Yeah, I closed him in the room. Well,
experience that just a little bit. I went in, I
told him I went to Penn. I was passionate about
hospitality and I would do whatever it took. Okay, So
you do that for three months, four to four and
then what happens? Then? I was like, uh, you know,

(10:32):
I think I could do more than just what I'm doing,
Like I'm all four starting from the bottom up, but hey,
I want to make more money and be I don't
feel like I'm doing as much as I can be
and I literally have zero life, um. And so I
went back to just promoting parties. Oh so you actually left.

(10:53):
There was very little that I could do because I
was incapacitated. Right, So I'm trying to say, but you
actually quit that gig after three months? Yes, quit okay?
And what did you say when you quit? Okay, good luck?
Was to say your whip okay. So then you say,
I'm gonna promote part So I went back to promoting parties, um.

(11:15):
And what happened was because very few people, um, that
were actually born and raised in Manhattan still remain in Manhattan.
And so I was one of the guys that all
these kids coming back from North that we're moving to
New York after graduation from Northeast schools that weren't from

(11:37):
New York. They had no idea where to go or
what to do. So I ended up becoming that guy
where so if you went to like any school basically
in the Northeast, like you called me and I told
you where to go. So I had we we had
parties lined up every single night basically maybe five Okay,
when a little bit slower you quit the gig. How

(11:58):
do you become the man I already was. I was
already doing it in the on the holidays during college,
like people knew you know, and I had I knew
every other promoter in New York, and you just kind
of link up with different people. You'll say, you know,
you'll say to one promoter friend, let's do Thursdays at

(12:18):
this place. And you'll say to another promoter friend, let's
do Fridays together and we'll go find a club. You know,
things like that, And what is the draw? You mean?
What gets them there? You develop a reputation for throwing
good parties and you know, taking care of people and
entertaining people. You know, if I went, I paid my money,
I get in, what would what would I be the

(12:38):
experience I had at that moment, dancing in a nightclub
and you know, potentially buying a table with bottles on
it for wildly over price amounts and there were people
just graduated from college. You can afford them, yes, with
their parents allowance. How much money to get in it

(13:00):
was either free or it was like twenty and how
much for the bottle bottle service At that time they
were like three. Now they're like six eight thousand. Okay.
So you're promoting these parties and word gets out if
you want to know what's going on? Are they literally
emailing you, texting you whatever? There was no text back then. Um,

(13:23):
there was email, but it was very difficult. Maybe there
was text, but it was very difficult to mass text,
like you could text ten people at a time because
you know, it's hard to sit there and text thousand
people individually. And same thing with email. There were like
limits to how many emails you could send. UM. So
you know, we we tried to fix find every trick

(13:45):
in the book to do that. Okay. The key, the
key thing to UM that I should say about these
parties is that at that time the DJ was in
the corner and nobody cared who it was or or
could even see them. Really you know, um in that

(14:06):
kind of led me to where you know, was led
me to my next step. Okay, So UM. So after
I made a name for myself as a nightclub promoter
in New York, I got hired by these two guys
that UM were known to be like pretty much the
best promoters and UM restaurant owners in New York. UM.

(14:29):
These guys, Scott and Ritchie UM and at the time
they owned a restaurant, Cold Butter, and they promoted other nightclubs.
And I got hired by them too, kind of be
the director of promotions, which means like manage all the
nights and hire all the DJs, and hire all the
other promoters and just make sure everything's going as it

(14:50):
should on the marketing and promotion side. UM. And I
ended up working for them for eight years. Okay, how
many years out of college did you get that gig?
Probably two or three. And you would make more money
working for them than doing it yourself, UM, probably because

(15:11):
I was getting a decent salary and health insurance, and
it was more for stability and like for growing my
career rather than just like, Okay, so you're in the
nightclub business. People your age are very aggressive in their
careers and you see people moving up with their careers.
Did you feel like, well, maybe I didn't play this
game right or you say, what not at first, but

(15:33):
after eight years, I you know, started to for sure.
It's also very very tiring. Um, it loses all its luster,
you know, being in nightclubs, you know, six nights a week,
every night, you know, and seeing people that's saying people
over and over and over and um, you know, definitely

(15:53):
there was a lot of that and I really didn't
know what my next step was going to be. But
I didn't know that it was going to present its health. Um.
And so we built a nightclub called One Oak um
in New York City, which still exists today. And um,
they've expanded and they have a bunch of One Oaks
and other clubs. It's a pretty big company now. Um.

(16:17):
But what happened was about three three years into it,
I noticed a few things all at the same time.
The first thing I noticed was that people we're starting
to ask all the time who's dejaying, and that wasn't
really a thing before. And the other thing that was

(16:38):
happening with social media was starting to get more prevalent,
and these local New York City DJs, we're starting to
get their own followings where people would care who that
like they would say, Oh, is this guy djaying tonight?
Is this guy djank tomorrow night? I want I want
that guy to you know, And I was like, that's
so weird, Like people didn't used to do that before.
It was like they would come to a nightclub be

(17:00):
because it was the newest or that's where the celebrities
hung out or whatever it was. The Other thing that
started happening was dance music started spilling over from Europe.
You know, guys like David Ghetta. So, what year are
we in? We're in two thousand and two and um.

(17:25):
The last thing was um dj AM Do you know
who that was? D J A m Yeah, So d
J A m Um was dating Nicole Ritchie and they
were on the cover of US Weekly and I saw
the magazine and I was just like, what is going
on here? Like DJs are like celebrities now, like they're

(17:45):
like so it's all those things could combine, just like,
you know, I have all the best DJs in New
York City DJing at my club, and they really don't
know what they're doing as far as furthering their career here.
They can barely send an invoice, you know, they could
barely show up on time. And since I had worked

(18:07):
at pretty much the best club in the country for
eight years, I knew everyone in the nightclub business. And
so I decided to start a DJ management company. And
I went and signed the ten DJs that worked at
our club, who were the best DJs in New York
City UM to management and really it was it was

(18:28):
sort of like a booking agency to UM. And that
company was called four AM, and I, you know, basically
told them, I'll help you on your social media, I'll
do all your office work, I'll you know, get you
working in other places around the country. And within three

(18:50):
months it exploded, Okay, are you still having your day
job while you're doing this? Okay, theoretically an agent somebody
getting work should be like, since you get it, you
don't get a license, right, of course? Not. Do you
have anybody working for you at the time? Not? Not
at first. At first I was doing it all myself.
What was your take? What was your percentage? So when

(19:15):
they were playing, before you have this epiphany, what was
a DJ making in your club? Uh? It could be
anywhere from three okay, And these guys did not make music.
They were you know, they were spinning spinning records. Okay,
you get involved. What does the price turn into. It

(19:36):
got a little bit higher, But it wasn't just about
raising their rates. It was about getting them playing more
nights a week in more cities, um, and helping their
fan bases grow. Okay, so how far would you go
from New York? Oh? I mean it was a pretty
high end, so it was international. But we really Yeah,
so we were doing things like you know, can Film Festival. Okay,

(20:00):
you're working at a club. How did you have those relationships?
The nightclub business, everyone knows each other. We would do
like pop ups like you know, Sundance Film Festival, Art
boss Al Toronto Film Festival, like you know. Nightclub owners
all intermingle at those types of things. Um, and I

(20:20):
had a little bit of exposure to the music business
because we'd have lots of artists come to our venues
and perform, and a lot of the DJs because the
artists wanted them to spend their records, had relationships, you know,
I was exposed to guys like Giddy and Jay z
Um all the time, and um, a little monopoly started

(20:45):
whereby Oh so after three months it exploded and I
quit the job working for the hospitality company and um
a buddy of mine, Rich kleiman Um, who managers Kevin
Durant now was running rock Nation, and he was I

(21:07):
told him about that I had left, and then I
started this DJ company and he gave me a desk
at rock Nation to run my company. No like, no
official ties, just here's a desk. Let's see what you
can do. And so I started working there and eventually
I was like, Rich, I need to hire somebody, like,
can I have another desk? And he was like nope.
And so I started running it out of my apartment

(21:31):
and then I started hiring people and I turned this.
I kicked out my roommate and I turned his bedroom
into like the office, and I had four guys working
there with me, and the company was just screaming. And
so we're what we're like two thousan Yes, exactly. Okay,
let's stop for a second here. At this point, Scooter

(21:51):
is making some noise, Scooter braun and whatever. Did you
see that as something separate or did you say I'm
competing with him or those are the steps I want
to go in. I wasn't even really looking at that.
There were other guys trying to do what I was doing,
and those were the guys I was competing. Okay, so
you say monopoly, they were trying to do it, But
you own the market. I own New York City and

(22:14):
the Tri State area and pretty much Miami. Okay. And
as a result of having this success, I would assume
that you're now throwing you're now selling DJs to hire
and higher levels of people. Yes, so that it was.
It was that my company because my club was a
high end club. My DJs were DJs that dj high

(22:38):
end clubs and private events like we would do Jay
Z's birthday party and the Louis Vutan fashion show, and
you know, so that's just the type of guys that
So did those relationships help you as you shifted? Gave
every relationship I've made I made over the eight years
in the nightclub business and the four years managing UM DJs,

(22:59):
that's been record. It's I still have and work with
those people today. It's amazing. That's like the best part
of it. That's the great thing about the nightclub business
is like as as much as I hated it, towards
the end, like I met so many people that I
have lifelong relationships within every business like finance, film, you, art,

(23:21):
you name it, and and these are people I still
do things with today now just so we know. Uh,
in the nightclub business is that type of thing where
people come and go or certain people are lifers. There
are certain people that are lifers and they're either really
really successful or just have done the same thing forever. Okay,

(23:43):
so you have the four years of managing DJs? What
does that look like after the four years? So what
happened was you basically couldn't DJ at any place good
in New York unless I was managing you. And um
Al Paul from the Chain Smokers was djaying in New

(24:04):
York City or was trying really trying to be a
DJ in New York City. Um and he was djaying
with another guy. And I kind of heard about them
a little bit because they were, um, you know, doing
some things here and there. And eventually and I would
see them around and I would say, you know, if
you really want to make it big, you need you
need me, and they would be like, yeah, sure, whatever,

(24:27):
you know, lo and behold. They called me eventually and
said can you manage us? And I said sure? And
I started telling everybody in in the hospitality industry that
these guys were my new guys, and um, I booked
them a gig at a nightclub called Wall in Miami

(24:48):
where they called the Chain Smokers. They would call the
Chain Cocks, and um it was well was a respectable club,
also still open today at the W Hotel in Miami.
And they went down there and I out of and
my phone rang at five o'clock in the morning. And
what do you do when you're a manager and your
phone rings at five o'clock and pick it and you
pick it up? And it was the other guy and

(25:10):
he said, I just got into a fight with Alex
and he's such an asshole. Am I allowed to curss
on this? Okay? He's such an asshole? And I'm like,
don't worry about it, just come home tomorrow we'll kiss
a makeup and uh. The next day we planned to
meet and um, Alex was the first one to arrive

(25:34):
and the other kid came in and said, fuck you,
I'm out quit the group. And where's he today? I
don't want to say he is he working in the
music business. I think he's still DJs around the city.
And when did he ever sue? Because he felt that

(25:56):
he got sucked over. No, so when he quit Alex
essentially right then and there, turned to me and said,
I believe in this. I want to find the new guy.
I want to produce dance music. Help me. And so
I said okay. And so he approached the original guy
and he bought the name chain Smokers for I think

(26:19):
five thousand dollars. So you did you actually get a
lawyer involved in again? That was smart? Yes. Um? You
didn't have any paper with these acts, did you? Yes,
we had written contracts. Oh really with all your details?
Who wrote the contracts? Um? Yeah, we had a lawyer.
I had a lawyer. Okay, So this was not actually

(26:41):
like I may have like used the template at first,
I don't remember. Eventually we had a lawyer, but I
don't remember exactly. Okay. So when you wait time you
hit four years, how many people are working for you?
Probably four full time? And are they still working out
of your apartment? Yes? Okay low over yes, um, and

(27:05):
so it's like, okay, the hunt is on to find
a new part. You were big on the Chain Smokers,
these other DJs. How many were you? Ultimately you doing it?
One time? We had like probably at that point twelve
that were assigned to us. But in addition to those twelve,
we were getting work like freelance work for probably an

(27:27):
additional ten or twenty. Okay, but if someone needed a
DJ and none of ours were available, we we made
it happen. Right. So, but the ten or twelve you have,
were you just booking them or giving them career directions
career We're doing everything for their careers, social media, marketing, routing, travel,
invoicing everything. And what was the most important thing in

(27:49):
breaking one of those acts? Getting to work more and
how their price go up? Well, what I learned is
that there is no breaking that kind of that kind
of DJ. The DJs that don't make their own music,
eventually they hit a ceiling, you know, where it's the
max that you can make for being that type of artist.
Um So, everybody was working all the time for the

(28:13):
most that they were worth, you know, and so the
company for what was arranged at that point, I mean
it was still it could be three hundred, but you know,
I think as much as grand maybe um uh, you know,
we were doing things like um Roman Abramovich's St. Bart's

(28:33):
New Year's Party, you know, like it was so many
different types of things. Um, and so the hunt to
find Alex a partner is on. And uh, well we
also had interns, and so I'm talking to the guys
and this is interns before you paid interns. Do they
pay interns? I'm kidding, um, And so um my intern said,

(29:00):
you know, I have this friend who know who has
another friend who I think like I heard like makes
e d M on his computer and he just graduated
from Syracuse. And I'm like, give me his number, and
I called and it was Drew and I cold call

(29:21):
him and he turns out he had just graduated from
the band deer program at Syracuse. He was from Freeport, Maine. UM,
and he was basically in his parents house with no job, um,
playing on his computer, and I said, send me some stuff.

(29:42):
I said, I might have an opportunity for you to
come to New York and be in a DJ group,
would be djaying every night, you'd be making, you know,
to start probably somewhere like five dollars at night. And
to two year old Inport Maine, that was like the
most incredible thing. And he said, I'll be on the
next bus and he took the eighteen or what is

(30:05):
it eight hour bus eighteen No, it's from he went
to Boston. Mom drove into Boston and then he took
the bus from Boston. It was eight hours against he
eighteen dollar bus. And I came to my apartment and
we sat and we met and he played me some
of his beats and I was like, Okay, this is

(30:26):
like real deal, like this is something here. And I said,
I wanted to go for dinner with Alex tonight. And
they went for dinner. At the time, Alex is how
old at the time, he must be twenty six? Yeah,
and um, so they go to dinner and I call

(30:47):
Alex the next day and I was like, how dinner go?
And he was like it went amazing. I love this kid.
We're doing it. He's in and uh. Drew moved to
New York. I think like maybe three weeks later, and um,
he moved into an apartment that was about the size
of the stable um with two other guys. Alex and

(31:16):
him locked themselves in a room and worked on music
for twenty four hours a day, every single day. And
they sent me and they weren't making songs because they
weren't songwriters yet. And Alex really wasn't that good of
a producer, And Drew really wasn't that good of a DJ.

(31:37):
You know, he had like dj some frat parties. So
they were like teaching the other how to do the
other thing. Um. And so they the only thing that
they could do was either just make instrumental beats or
remix other tracks. And so how are they working as
DJs while they're doing this every night? Have them working

(32:00):
every single night? Um? And they have this idea that
they were very into their very into all kinds of music,
but they were very into indie music. And so they
had this idea to remix indie bands. And at the
time that wasn't really a thing. It was like you
were either remixing pop songs or you were remixing E

(32:25):
d M songs. And so they would message indie bands
that they were fans of on SoundCloud and ask them
for stems. And if you're you know, an indie band
and someone wants to remix your song, you're thinking, hey,
free promotion, you know, like sure, So they would send
the stems and then they would do this remix. And

(32:48):
they sent me the first remix. We're in twelve. They
sent me the first remix and it was UM of
a song by Yonce from Cigarass and I was like,
holy shit, like this is a this is real, Like
this is incredible and this is how long after you

(33:09):
introduced them to each other very soon like weeks and UM,
so I was like completely infatuated with it. Was the
first time I had a piece of music. You know,
I had never nothing I was working on. Was there ever,
like an actual tangible thing. So I was completely completely

(33:33):
infatuated by it. And you know they were they were
making a name for themselves as live DJs in New
York City. Like kids wanted to go to their shows.
They were fun, they were like party guys, and uh,
their social media really showed their personalities and they were
like super funny and witty, UM and so like I

(33:54):
could kind of so that. So then we put out
this remix and Alex decides to personally email hundred blogs,
each each letter unique, and the song came out on
SoundCloud and it went to number one on hype Machine.
Hype Machine was, for those of you who don't know

(34:15):
it was a lot was a blog aggregator that would
UM take the number of UM blogs that you were
on and that would and make a chart out of it.
And so this went to number one on on Hype Machine.
And I think the reason why it resonated with the
blogs was a because Alex wrote these amazing, hilarious personalized emails,

(34:36):
but also because people were just not remixing indie bands,
and also the remixes happened to be fire as they say,
and UM, so all this so I was like completely infatuated.
And so then it was like me Alex Andrew sitting
in my bed like just thinking about how to break

(34:56):
chain smokers twenty four hours a day. And so we
would do indie band remix after indie band remix after
indie band remix, UM, and we're those successful. Every single
one went to number one on high Machine. I think
at the end of the day we had like thirty
three number ones in a row on high Machine. UM.
The only other guy that was that had something like

(35:18):
that was R. A. C. Have you ever heard of him?
It was like a famous remixer back then. And UM
and their social media started to really get good. But
every day it was all we could think about was
how do we get likes on Facebook? How do we
get likes on Facebook? Instagram, wasn't even really big at
that point yet, so it's like, how do we get

(35:39):
legs on Facebook? And so they didn't have an agent,
they didn't have anything. So I got them a gig
at Live in Miami, which it's kind of like a
rite of passage. It's like, you know, the best club
in Miami, All the big DJ's play there, and if
you're not a top DJ to get a shot, there's

(35:59):
like a big deal. And the only reason I was
able to get them that was based on my relationships
with from when I was promoting nightclubs with the owner
there UM, who were still really close with today, Dave
Groutman UM. So they were like, Okay, this is a
big deal. We need to find something, find a special

(36:20):
way to promote this party so that it's successful and
a lot of people show up and they're really happy
with us. So we get invited back. And so that
was our task. And the next day I get an
email from the guys with a song called Selfie and
it was a parody song about girl a girl at

(36:44):
a nightclub, UM strictly made for promoting the show at Live,
and in the song it says living with my bitches
hashtag Live. That's about UM Live nightclub. And I was like,
oh my god, this is hilarious this oh and they
wrote to me, we think this will perform well on

(37:05):
Facebook and I was like, definitely, And so we put
it out on Facebook and it started to It went
number one on High Machine, but that was normal for us,
and it started to do well on SoundCloud and I
I said, why don't we message out two on all

(37:26):
our social media platforms. Send us your selfies and you'll
be in a music video. And so we received like
a thousand or two, I don't know how many. It's
just selfie images of our fans. And we put together
a video with some girls kind of lip singing the
words and and uh collage of all these selfies and

(37:47):
we put it out spent how much oh nothing, UM,
and it went viral not only because the song was
by but people were sharing it because it was like, look,
I'm in this video, so they would send it to
their friends and they would post to anticipate that. Yeah,
that was why. That was where the idea came from.

(38:10):
And UM. So then we were like, ship, this is
like turning into something we didn't expect. And at the time, UM,
Steve ioki Um was one of the biggest DJs and
he was an expert at social media. His Instagram was popping.

(38:32):
He was doing all kinds of funny things like throwing
cakes off the stage into people's faces and riding on
inflatable rafts over the crowd. And I just knew that
this was kind of like up his alley. And so
I had heard about this guy who was helping him
with his social media, and so I reached out to
this guy and I was like, I've got this song.

(38:55):
I think it's going viral. Can you help me um
figure this out? UM? And he said, let me send
it to Steve, and he sent it to Steve and
Steve said, let me sign this to my indie label,
dim Mac Records and release it commercially. And we were like, okay, cool.
So we did a deal for three singles. UM. We

(39:17):
took it down and we released it commercially. And that
day I got a call on my phone from a
guy named Monty Lippman and he said, how does it
feel to have the biggest record on the planet? And
I was like, feels pretty good. Meanwhile, I had no
idea what he was talking about. Did you know who
Monty Lippman was, and UM, he said, we'd like to

(39:42):
sign you. We know you're signed to DIMAC Records, but
well you know, we'll we'll buy you out of that deal.
And by the time I got off the phone with him,
there was an offer in my email. UM. Then a
bidding war ensued, UM, and we ended up signing to
Republic Records. Okay, Manti's Republic really the hottest executive in

(40:07):
the business still and he certainly breaks records. I'm talking
about somebody. Well, we'll get into what I think it's well,
we'll get I met in church with labels, but I
don't want to dig a hole here. Secondly, uh okay,
So who else is interested? Oh? Literally everybody. I spoke
to every major label head UM in the UK and

(40:28):
the US. And do you ever think you're over your
over you know your limits? Do you think that maybe
you're not sophisticated enough to do this? Not at all?
But UM. Drew had gone to college with UM a
guy named Harry Roberts. And Harry's father is Jamie Roberts,

(40:51):
and Jamie Roberts is a really incredible entertainment lawyer, and
Harry is now an entertainment lawyer who works with him,
And so Jamie has been the chains More Chris lawyer
since day one, and Jamie has been one of you know,
countless mentors that I've had. So he was kind of
coaching me. So you bring him in during this bit. Absolutely, absolutely,

(41:13):
so he's coaching me. But I'm uh, I'm the one
who's kind of uh the communicator with a couple of questions,
do you think these other companies are calling you because
they heard the record or they heard Monty was into it? No,
what had What I found out had happened was John

(41:35):
Ivy from kiss Um heard the record and put it
on every station. And that's not something that really ever happens.
Usually a record has worked, even if it's a smash,
it's worked. It's not like somebody hears a record and says,
everyone play this. You know, he knew it was a

(41:56):
viral hit UM and so everyone knew that obviously, and
so every and everybody was reading the data. So everybody
called UM and we took the meetings. And I think
one of the key things UM at that time was
because it was my first UM time dealing with that,

(42:17):
I was blatantly honest with every label. You know, I
had no problem because I knew I had what they wanted,
you know, I knew I had the record. So I
I was like, um, this is what we like about you.
This is what we like about this label. This is
what we don't like about that label. This is what
we don't like about you. This is what we want,

(42:38):
this is what we don't want. And I think that
people really respected the fact that I wasn't playing games,
and I wasn't lying about amounts, and I wasn't you know,
playing them against each other. I was just straight up
because I had I had no reason to lie, you know.
And UM, I think that resonated with a lot of people,

(43:00):
and a lot of my friendships with label heads uh
that I have today is from started at that moment.
You know. Um, I met a lot of guys that
I that I love and I'm super friendly with still
today during that process, um, And what I ended up

(43:21):
doing was getting the deals to be matched across the
board so that Alex Andrew could pick the label that
they wanted to be at, not based on the deal,
and I let them make the decision at the end
of the day. Um. And so we sold. We signed. Um. Well,
you're missing a chapter though about your conversation with Doug Morris. Well,

(43:42):
I haven't gotten to that yet, okay, Um, I thought
that happened so so so Doug Um. Doug was at
Sony and and for whatever reason, he got involved in
the negotiation. UM, and we had met with him several times.
I had met with him several times. I met with

(44:04):
all these guys, with Alex and Drew, but with with
them alone too, because you know, during a biding war,
they're always they always want more meetings, more meetings, more
meetings that they want to sign you. UM and UM
I met and we we met with Doug and UM

(44:24):
and we ended up not signing with Doug. We ended
up signing with Monty. And it was definitely a scary
phone call for me to have to call Doug Morris
UM and tell him that we weren't signing with him.
Um and uh selfie came No. I thought that that
was when he took a shigne to you before the
record was actually blown up on republic. Yeah, but what

(44:48):
did he say to you? He said, he said that
he wanted to work with me either way, whether he
got the record or not. And I At the time,
I didn't let that affect my decision or anything that
I was doing with this record or with this band,
because I didn't know whether I could believe him or not.
And when he when you called him to say he

(45:11):
wasn't going to get it, what did he say at
that point? He just said okay, and we signed a
album deal with the Republic, and um, Selfie came and went, okay,
just so I know. The guarantee is what your business? No? No, no,
I thought about money product. Oh it was at first

(45:34):
it was an album and they had I think three
album options. It was only a guarantee for one album. Yes,
and uh, but Selfie was a huge success. I mean
not to me now, but at the time it was um.
But it was a novelty record and I didn't even know.
You know, I always say this sentence. I always think

(45:55):
it's funny, but at the time, I didn't even know
what a novelty record was, you know. Um, And how
long for the time that Monty gets ahold of you,
do you does it take to sign with Monty? Oh?
It was a two week process. Yeah, so so so
Selfie came and went, and then a few weeks a

(46:17):
few weeks after that, I got a call from Doug
and he said, will you come in? And I thought
it was super weird, and he offered me a joint venture.
And he said, you know, remember when I told you
I wanted to work with you, Well I meant it,
and so he offered me a joint venture. UM, and
I told him that, UM, I would love you know,

(46:37):
how could I say no to having my own label
out of Major UM, even though I had never done
it before? And I, UM, I told him. If I
could do that, I still need to be a manager
and I need to be able to manage artists. And
I'm gonna run my label like a manager. UM. And
what I meant by that is that I was going
to help the managers of the artist signed to my

(47:00):
label with every aspect of their artist career, touring, merch sponsorship, strategy,
social media, press, whatever it is. I wanted to act
like a co manager to those artists. And that's how
I do it. That's how I feel now. You know,
there's nothing that I'm not involved in and that my
artists feel like they can't come to me forward because

(47:22):
I'm the label. UM. Trying to think so the chain Smokers,
the track comes and goes, let's play it out their
Universal Republic. Um. It came, and it came and went.
And you know, I started signing artists at my joint venture, Disruptor.

(47:43):
And how did you find those acts? Um? A variety
of ways. Some of them kind of found me through
managing the Chain Smokers, Some was just scouring the internet. Um.
Some was word of mouth, various various ways. And you're
still managing and booking your traditional DJs. Oh no, no, no,

(48:06):
no no. I wasn't booking anything by that point. I
was oh so so around this time when I got
offered the joint venture, I had to sell my piece
of my my DJ management company, which I did, and
then I started this new Okay, but if you started
who's who? Just who's you had a part I had

(48:27):
partners at the time, Okay, but you didn't start with partners.
I started with partners, and so you sold it was
lucrative or was just something I was getting a great
new offer, and and the Chain Smokers came with me.
So so only the Chain Smokers only. Okay, so you
start the label. How long after you signed with Universal

(48:49):
with the Chain Smokers, do you start disruptor not long.
It's months a few and you start and you sign
how many acts? Uh? Um I signed? It wasn't a
lot I was signed. I signed like two, you know.
And um, you know there was a little bit of

(49:12):
a disconnect because I was signing acts at Sony, but
I managed an act that was at Universal. Um. And
you know, the thing about Selfie is it was never
the you know, the path selected by chain smokers. You know,
they were making very cool, uh progressive house remixes of

(49:36):
indie bands, and they thought that they weren't even ready
to make their own songs, you know. And all of
a sudden, this novelty record happened, which was meant to
be a Facebook joke, and you know, a lot of
people thought this is the type of music that they
wanted to make, but it never was. You know, they
hadn't even gotten to the point where they were ready

(49:57):
to decide what what and when they thought that they
had to earn the right to make original music, and
they didn't. They weren't even thinking about that at this point,
and then they were thrust into this situation. Um. But
you know, Selfie did make them globally famous, and we
had built a kind of small, very small cult following

(50:25):
just from the remixes and from them deejaying, But now
their fan base was a million times as big, and
of those fans were selfie fans, not chain smokers fans.
And so what I was testing, what we three of
us kind of were tesked with for the for the
few years after that, was converting selfie fans into chain

(50:47):
smokers fans. Um. But eventually what happened was, Um, Republic
let them go, and I brought them over and signed
them to my late Okay, a little bit slower. Did
you negotiate them away or did they let them go? Um,

(51:12):
we had a conversation, had a conversation, but based on
prior conversation, you were not thrilled with the job Republic
was doing with your act. I will talk, okay. Is
that Monty is specializes in this and picking up records,
which he actually learned from Doug, and that was successful.
But you did not have another successful track at Universal.

(51:34):
I don't want to go there. I don't think we
got to that point. I just you know, they signed
a novelty record, and they got a novelty record. Um,
that's not what that band was meant to do or
wanted to do. Okay, did they ever put out an album? Now? Okay,
they just put out how many tracks? We put out?
Three songs? Okay. And it was amicable with Republicans. Okay,

(51:58):
so you're bringing him over to the Disruptor, yes, um, yes,
so it was definitely amicable. And Monty is still a
good friend and mentor to me to this day. Um. So,
you know, they really didn't have any choices because they
were the guys that had a novelty record, so you know,
they uh, you know, luckily I had this labeled to

(52:21):
give them a um an outlet to put out music.
And so we brought them over to my label and
they had made all this music. Um um. They had
made about ten songs over this period that they hadn't
been able to release. And so I said to them,
you know, let's just release a song every month and

(52:44):
we will feed our core fans that really care about
us and will continue to tour, and we'll just build
it organically, and our fans will love us because they
love chain smokers and if we deliver them a chain
Smoker song every month, it's better than that. And hopefully
every time we released one of those songs will make

(53:05):
a few new fans. And so UM none of the
other labels at Sony UM, because my joint venture, I
can go through any of the labels at Sony. None
of them wanted to work with the Chain Smokers because
they were the guys who and chose and who chose Universal,

(53:26):
And so I was on my own. And so we
started putting out UM a song a month, and you know,
three or four months go by, three or four songs
come out, and I'm looking at the data and you know,
one of the amazing things about Doug Um is that,
you know, he really mentored me and like taught me

(53:49):
how to read records, UM the way we don't, a
different way than we read records today. UM. But I
would look at UM, you know, numbers by city, downloads
by city, UM, and I noticed that this one song,
which was the second song we put out, was selling

(54:12):
and streaming double what the other songs were doing. And
then I was like, something's going on here this record.
Why is this record doing more than our normal and UM,
I H I started looking at Shazam and I found
that it was Shazam ing in UM Houston and San

(54:32):
Francisco and I brought it to Doug and UM. When
I walked into his office, Rob Stringer was in his
office and I said, Doug, Doug, this record jasaming in
Houston and San Francisco, like, I think I got something here,
and Rob was like, what, Yeah, you should probably show
this at some of the team at Columbia. And so

(54:54):
I showed it to the guys at Columbia and actually
that's not true. I called UM in A and R
Columbia and got his message that he was on his honeymoon.
And I left him a message, figuring I'll never hear
back from them. And UM. About three days later, I
got a call from a different guy saying, hey, so

(55:17):
and so told me to check his voicemail and I
got your message and I just looked at this record
and I think you got something here. And UM. By
that time I had already started going to radio myself.
UM and Columbia came in and up streamed it, and
we continue to put out a song every month. They

(55:39):
let me keep doing what I was doing. UM, but
it was really unheard of at the time to put
out records when you're working a record at radio. But
my attitude was I'm delivering to the fan. The fan
has been listening to this record already for a really
long time. You go play it for the masters on

(56:01):
the radio, and I'm going to keep delivering to my
fan because I want my artists to keep being able
to tour. And they just let me do it. And
it worked. But everyone people didn't understand it. Radio didn't
understand it. Even streaming services didn't really understand why I
was doing it. Um, And you know what ended up

(56:22):
happening is we just started having hit after hit after
hit after hit, and because there were different singers on
the songs, we got to a point where we could
have multiple songs on the radio at the same time.
And you know, and then we just went on a
on a crazy run. Um. And you know now they've

(56:47):
and and you know since then, um, you know, Drew
became a singer, Alex became a piano player, and they
really evolved and now this DJ act is a full band. Okay,
just stopping there for a second. How many acts are
signed to Disruptor right now? Eight eight on the label
five that we manage? Okay, so how's the if you

(57:11):
have a management deal? That's all about the money. But
how's the money split up? Um, if you're both signed
to label and manage from me. UM. So if you're
signed to label and managed by me, UM, the label
does not take UM three sixty rights because you're already
paying commission and we don't commission your record royalties because

(57:33):
you're signed to our label. So it's actually from a
financial level, really really beneficial, UM, because we don't double
dip obviously. And who other than the Chain Smokers has
been successful on your label? UM? Well them the most
by far. UM. The next biggest artist I would say,

(57:53):
UM that that we've had for a while is lost Kings. UM.
But I just recently signed signed this dis these star
named Dove Cameron, who I'm super excited about. Okay. So
of the acts that are signed, how many your electronic
music acts? Three? Okay? So it is all types of
all types. I sign what I like. That's it. Okay,

(58:15):
So the Chain Smokers, let's play that out. So where
where the Chain Smokers at today? Um? They are full bands.
As I mentioned, UM, they write and sing all the
and play the instruments on all their own songs. I mean,
you know, they write with other people, but you know
they're the main songwriter, UM for the most part. And

(58:38):
you know they do arenas. UM. They have a residency
in Vegas which is still djaying. UM. They have a
lot of other businesses that are involved that they're involved in. Um.
We have a film and television production company. We have
a tequila we have a ticketing company that we found it. UM.

(59:01):
We do a lot of different things, and of those
other things profitable. Uh answer okay, And the acts where
you're not the manager, those are three sixty deals. Uh, yes,
they are so. Like I said, we're the type of
label that actually helps in the areas where we take

(59:24):
three sixty. We don't just take three sixty and not
do the work. How many people work for Disruptor right now? Um?
Full time seven Um. But the great thing about the
joint venture setup is that you get to use all
the departments at Sony. How do you motivate them to
work for you? I don't think I need to. I

(59:45):
think everyone's super motivated and wants to work. But they
only work if the record is upstreamed. No. UM, you
mean the individual labels, Yes they do, but we you know,
we use other Sony resources like legal and graphic design, okay,
and you're not charged back for that stuff. Okay, But

(01:00:08):
Doug ultimately leaves. How does that? Where does that leave you? Um? Well,
by that time, you know, we were doing great and UM,
I got super lucky because the best next person for
me to get the job was Rob and Rob and
I had just gone on this historic run at Columbia

(01:00:30):
with the chain smokers, um, and he was far and away.
There was no other choice for that job. He was
the best for it, and I couldn't have asked. Okay,
so who your mentors today? Oh goodness, it's a long list.
I mean Rob number one, Doug Um, there's so many Um,

(01:00:56):
Rob Light, Um, Marty bandar Um. You know, I've been
lucky to work with a lot of great Okay, So
what is your style? You're the guy who actually jumps
on the phone or do an email guy? What kind
of how do you operate? Um? I do everything I work.

(01:01:17):
I do a lot of email, but I I don't
email a second time. If if I don't get the
email back, I don't get the email response I want,
then I'm on the phone right away. I hate when
somebody who works for me says, oh so I haven't
heard from so and some call. Um. You know that
things always get worked out if you pick up the phone.

(01:01:38):
And about how many phone calls do you make a day?
I never counted. I think I get I think I get, um,
six thousand emails a day. But how do you decide
what to read? I read every single email, six thousand emails.
I get a lot of email. That's you know, your
your brain goes into a fog after a certain number.

(01:01:58):
I'm a different generation. I'm not sure that's true. Okay, boom,
But so I asked my wife. Okay, we're looking at
the business. We're along this uh and in this timeline,
do you meet your wife? My wife three years ago?
She was in the studio when they were recording Paris. Okay,
she was there? Why? Uh? Because the studio was around

(01:02:22):
the corner from our from our apartment at the time. No,
I mean, why was how you met her there? No? No,
I'm just saying that's that's the point in my career
where the Chain Smokers that that she we met. Okay, Well,
was that really the time you met? Yeah? Like I mean,
and I'm talking about just in a lifespan of the

(01:02:43):
Chain Smokers. Okay, So just how did you literally meet
A friend introduced us. A friend told me about her
and that he wanted to set me up with her,
and I wanted to get set up with her. And
he had tried to get her to come out to

(01:03:05):
a social gathering, out one night to a bar restaurant,
and she always said no. Um. I think she had
a fear of dating anyone in the music business. I
don't really know why. Um. So strategically, what I did
was on my friend's birthday, I got him four tickets

(01:03:26):
to Kanye West at Madison Square Garden. Um. This was
the tour three years ago when he was on the stage. Yeah,
And so I said, here's four tickets to Kanye, bring
your girlfriend me and asked Ashley if she wants to go.
So I kind of set up a double date um

(01:03:46):
on purpose, using my friend, and he did and she came.
And so that was kind of like the first night
we met. Was that cokay, and you were since you'd
never met her, she was so appealing to you because
I thought she was cute, okay, and how long you're
instant you go to Kanye you're smitten? Is she smitten?
I was? She definitely was not smitten at that. So

(01:04:08):
how did your closer, um convinced her to come out
with me another night? And and then I closed there? Okay?
And what was she doing for work at the time? Um?
She was a model? She is a model. So she
continues to work as a model. Yes, Well, they say
that rock stars and models work because they understand the

(01:04:29):
same schedule and that you know you wake up late,
you work night, you know you work heavily certain days.
Does she understand your schedule? Absolutely? And she's fine with
you working seven? That's debatable. And you have how many kids?
One on the way, one on the way. Okay, so
you haven't hit that threshold? No, when is that coming February? Okay?

(01:04:54):
So is that something you wanted to do at this point? Okay?
So how many kids do you want? Well? I think
probably three, but my attitude is let's start with one
and see how that goes. Yeah, okay, so you're doing
this now? So how much are you traveling now? Um?

(01:05:16):
A lot? I travel a lot. I mean I'm definitely
I'm in l a four or five days a week.
I'm sorry, four or five days a month. Um, And
I go to shows and festivals and meetings when when
I have to be there. Okay, so what's the dream?
Not if you're not living great now? Um, there's nothing

(01:05:38):
more satisfying to me than breaking artists, you know. So
for me, first and foremost, it's about breaking as many
artists as I can and building disruptor the label, UM
to be the biggest it can be. Um. You know,
obviously I'm entrepreneurial, and I'm really interested in tech and

(01:05:59):
how it can help music business and you know, film
and television and other aspects of the entertainment industry. Um.
Like I said, we have the film and television production company. UM.
But yeah, building a label breaking artists number one. Does
anyone try to poach you do a different job as
opposed to working your joint venture? Absolutely? And what your

(01:06:21):
what do you tell them now? I'm good, no matter
how much do they throw on the table. Uh. It
never gets to that point. So one thing we were
talking about the last time, we were talking about the
way you constructed album on Spotify. Oh yes, so can

(01:06:42):
you tell my audience about that? Yeah? So you know
in those days when the Chain Smokers and I were
putting out a song a month, nobody was doing that
like that. That was tell us what you were doing.
At that time, we were just putting out a single
every four weeks on the dot and UM, nobody was
doing that and UM. So so we just kept on

(01:07:03):
doing that. And each year what we would do is
we would just at the end, we were just wrap
it into an EP. UM. And so we had two
you know, eventually we had two EPs. And by that
point we had had like four or five global hits. UM.

(01:07:24):
You know, Closer, which was one of the biggest songs
of the decade. UM. And so they said, you know,
we really want to do an album because we've never
done it before, and we want to make a body
of work and we want to see what that's like
and we want to experience that and and and at
that time, you know, we had all felt like we deserved,

(01:07:47):
we had earned the right to put out an album. UM.
You know, we had we had UM. I think by
that time we were there was a there was a
time where we had we were in uh the billboard
top ten for sixty one weeks in a row or
something like that. UM, and we had just had three

(01:08:08):
songs in the top ten on billboards. Like we really
felt like we had earned the right to put out
an album, and so they did it. They made an
album and and and making that album was one of
the hardest That first album, UM, Memories Do Not Open
was probably one of the hardest things that I was
ever involved in. It was just so much work and

(01:08:28):
we did uh the traditional single single album rollout, and
the album came out UM. I want to say in
like March or April, I don't remember exactly, but what
happened was, even though we had two big hits and
they were all over the radio, after they put the

(01:08:49):
album out, they couldn't put music out for six or
eight months, and it destroyed them. They didn't know that
they had never experienced what it felt like to not
put music all the time. Even though they were super
proud of this album, they were like, when can we
put out another song? When can we put another another song?
So they got super frustrated. UM. And the way we

(01:09:10):
defined success of that album was based on the consumption
of the songs that weren't singles. And you know, it
was the number one album and it went platinum. But
the thing I think for us that was the most
satisfying is that the non singles were all consumed in
equal amount, which meant people were actually consuming this album.

(01:09:32):
So we had kind of checked that box and UM
after that, they were like, no, we can't do like this,
this doesn't work for us. So so we came up
this way to kind of marry the two strategies where
we can make a body of work, put out an
album but also released music regularly. UM and so we

(01:09:56):
came up with this strategy called the building album, whereby
essentially we release a song every month or two, and
instead of making it a single on streaming platforms, we
add it to the records that have come out before it.
So the first song comes out, and the second song

(01:10:17):
comes out and it's a two song album. Then when
the third song comes out, it's a three song album.
And what we would do is deliver these products and
revoke the product before it. UM. People who work at
labels know what I mean when I'm saying that, But basically,
you deliver a four song album and the three song
album that was there before you take down. But you

(01:10:38):
can still stream it. It's just not an album. It's
a four song album. But okay, what would you saw
on the fourth on the fourth month when the fourth
song comes out? We put out a four song album
which has one new song and the three songs that
have come out prior. But the month before we had
put out a three song album. So when the fourth

(01:11:00):
song album comes out, we take down the product that
was the three song album that we had released a
month prior. And so it's an album that increases by
one song every time we release a song. And what
that does is it keeps our album as the most
real as the um most recent release. Let's go slowly

(01:11:24):
because the audience may not be able to visualize. It
may not be able to visualize at this point in time. Yes,
there's one ever evolving Jamee Smoker's album. Yes, and how
many songs in maximum ten? I mean twelve months? It
should be twelve songs, but life it's not perfect, so
it's about tens. Okay, So if there are twelve songs

(01:11:46):
in the album, every month a song is added and
a song is dropped. No, every month a song is added,
but um, the album that was put out the before
is short a song. It's a different product every time
you deliver the album. It's a different product on streaming services,

(01:12:08):
so you would see, let's say we're in month four.
When we deliver, you see a four song album, but
there's also on their page the three song album that
was released the month before. So we take down the
three song album, which those three songs are still on
the four song album, but the four song album is
the current form because it has the one new song. Okay,

(01:12:29):
let's go to the month after that, a five song
album gets released with one new song and the four
prior songs, and that four song album gets taken down. Okay,
once you hit twelve songs, then you just keep it
as twelve. Correct, So every month you add a track

(01:12:50):
to the previous existing and you drop a track and
delete that. You know, that album title. So if I
went on streaming, if I want to Spotify, now, how
many Chain Smoker's albums would I see? So there's two
full albums and one album that's being built right now. Okay.

(01:13:11):
One of those two one was obviously the album you
were talking about the first The first one was Memories
Doing It Open, and the second one was Sick Boy,
which was last year, which was also done as a
building album. Okay, so after twelve months you start a
new album. Yeah, they make each year as a chapter.
Each year is an okay, so tell us what the

(01:13:32):
advantages of doing it this way are. So obviously there
are um business advantages, but there are also artistic advantage.
Start with, the business advantages are that every song gets
its own campaign, Every song gets its own life, its
own chance to be something, and the fans get the

(01:13:56):
opportunity to decide if a song is if they love
something so much that it should be a single. Um.
So you know, every song gets playlisted and saved and
shared and a music video and thus there you know,
blood sweat and tears that they put into each song
is validated because each gets a shot. Where you know, nowadays,

(01:14:21):
when you put out an album, the singles get all
the shine and the album cuts only the hardcore fans
listen to. And they but that artist spent months and
years and money and blood, sweat and tears putting those
other ten songs together. They don't deserve to get under
listened to, basically, you know, and that that that was

(01:14:41):
what we were hoping to avoid with our first album,
and I think we did, but we just find so
much more satisfaction when each song Traditionally, let's you know,
there are many people they put on an album and
the album. The album could be over in a day.
At this point, they can see skip rates on Spotify
and if they're in the albums, they may not have
another album for years. Correct. Okay, So would you advise

(01:15:05):
other acts to do this? Absolutely? I mean listen, there's well,
why don't we get to the artistic Okay? Okay, I figured, okay,
keep going. So the artistic points, and this is where
Alexandrew really came up with it was that what what
they learned when they put out the traditional album was

(01:15:27):
that by the time it came out and in the
months after the songs that they had written they were
on that album, we're not how they felt anymore. So
they were like, that's how I felt when I was
writing this, but it's not how I feel right now
and in in this world like with instant gratification, like
they're like, we want to write a song and put

(01:15:47):
it out. And so that's what the building album strategy allows.
We don't finish ten songs and then put them out
once a month. They finish it, then it's the next song.
They finished, the next one, then the next. But if
there's more than one per month, uh, you know, they're
always working on a few at a time, and then

(01:16:07):
they decide which one's next, and which one comes after that,
which one comes out. It's kind of like they're finishing
them and putting them out on a rolling basis essentially. UM.
But it's so great for them because you know, if
they're depressed, they write a depressing song, they put it out.
If they're happy, they make a happy song, they put
it out. So, you know, an album is supposed to

(01:16:29):
be a body of work based on how the artist
is feeling. This allows them to do that in real time. Okay,
you put out a track, tell us how you work
it in the marketplace. UM, we make a music video
for every track, for every track with what kind of budget? UM,

(01:16:51):
sometimes five dollars sometimes we they're were creative and we
have a UM a lot of friends who do videos
with us, UM that have been with us since day one.
I mean we the Chain Smoker's team. Pretty much every

(01:17:13):
person has been with us since day one, and if
they haven't, we've never fired somebody ever. So like once
you're in, you're in, UM. And so some of our
video guys have been with us, you know, since they
were following Alex and Drew to like nightclubs in New
York City filming them, you know. UM. And so we

(01:17:33):
we turned music videos around in a day. I mean
the Closer the Closer lyric video UM has over a
billion views. And our our buddy Rory, you know, rented
a car and made it in a day. You know. UM.
There's another recent video that we did a few months

(01:17:53):
back for Hope that just like they did it in
their house one night because I told them I needed
the video by the next day and it cost me nothing.
And I think it has like million views or something
like that. Okay, so you have the video. How do
you work at its streaming services? In radio? Um? It depends. UM. Obviously,

(01:18:18):
we send streaming services the songs and we tell them
about them and why they're important and what this one
means and where it came from and who who they
wrote it with and um and you know, but at
the same time, we welcome their opinions. You know, if
if if streaming service don't want to support one song

(01:18:39):
more than the other, like I accept that, you know,
like we would never for something that people didn't want
to promote. You know, we put out a lot of songs,
you know, UM, and at the end of the day,
they have such a big following. UM. You know, just
on Spotify alone, they have I think thirty eight million
monthly listeners. Like you're gonna get a read on a record,

(01:19:01):
whether you have playlisting or not, you know, UM and
radio it depends, you know. The way I prefer is
for a record to raise its hand and then we
go UM. But also there are records that we just
happened to think are big and have big features, and
so we set them up, as they say, and prepare

(01:19:23):
to impact them and and make a planned uh campaign
at radio. Okay, but radio comes last. It works very slowly.
How does this affect your relative to your month track?
A month release pattern? UM is difficult. It's difficult. We
have to navigate it. There have been times where we've

(01:19:43):
been working a record UM, and then the next record
we put out raises its hand and we're like, oh, wait,
this one now, this one wants to go. We gotta
we gotta shift, we gotta pivot to this song, or
do we work both at the same time or so
you know, we've we've definitely faced challenging situations. But we've
also been in places where we had three songs on

(01:20:04):
the chart at the same time. Okay, So what's the
most important thing in driving success of a chain smoker's
track driving success of a chain smoker's track the song itself. Okay,
But then there's video, there's radio, there's uh streaming services,
there's playlisting. If I said you have to choose one,

(01:20:25):
what's the most important thing in terms of driving success
word of mouth by the fans. Okay, So let's go back.
You have a totally unique way of doing albums. What
other things does the business at large do now that

(01:20:48):
you think should be changed? Um, that's a tough question.
I mean, I don't really have an answer for that.
I think it's I just wish that, um, there were
more distinct avenues for people, um, to get a chance

(01:21:14):
to be heard amongst um the noise. That that's you know,
the biggest challenges You're saying the acts themselves, the music,
because there's so much cacophony. Okay, But do you find
that the business, let's talk about the recorded business. Do
you find that it's ruled by baby boomers to its detriment?

(01:21:35):
Is it? Though? Well, I would say that the labels,
generally speaking, the people who run them or baby boomers,
and generally speaking, the people below them make a lot
less money, and the baby boomers who run them tend
to be focused on radio. Radio is the number. It's
like network TV. The ratings are worse than they've ever been,
but that's where the largest audiences that I find. Like

(01:21:58):
you're talking about social media, they could use that line,
but they can't get down in the pit with the
people doing stuff. I don't think that's necessarily true, bom.
I I think that. I mean I work within a
record label. Everybody he's working on everything and cares about

(01:22:20):
every thing. Yes, radio is great, but I mean radio
more and more is for playing hits. You know, um
people understand that they have to get the help the
hit get to the point where it can get up
the radio chart. You know, it's almost impossible to force

(01:22:42):
a song that's not a hit into the top of
the radio chart. But there are also tracks that have
been hits all around the world except in America. There
have So the track raised its hand and radio said no, yes, so,
but I would say it's an imperfect system them. I
would not say the track was not good enough either,

(01:23:03):
the label didn't work it right way. Or hard enough.
It's sometimes you know, sometimes timing is a big factor.
You know, Um, timing is a really big factor. I've
definitely witnessed songs that should have been hits not be
hits because of timing, timing, because the chain the lane

(01:23:24):
is cluttered, or because what's going on in the world.
The lane is cluttered. They went to radio too late
and and the hype was dying out already. I mean,
there's so many different reasons. Okay, now, Um, to what
degree radio formats other than top forty matter? Um. Most

(01:23:46):
of my experiences in top forty UM, So I wouldn't
claim to be an expert at the other formats, but
you know I have seen records um climb to the
top of other formats charts, and that be the real
launching pad for them being global smash hits. Okay, let

(01:24:09):
me put it in different ways. Rock did. Now, So
what's the future of rock? I think it will come
back in different shapes and forms and sizes. Well, I mean,
at this point, hip hop dominates the top, Yes, it does.
Do you believe that is going to continue? That is
going to change? You're a guy who signs things and

(01:24:31):
you say that, you know they're all not the same time.
I think that things are cyclical. I mean, one of
the aspects about hip hop music is that, um, it's
very cultural, it's it's a lifestyle, it's not just the genre.
And so I think that hip hop will always do well.
But I do think that there will be a natural

(01:24:53):
selection where it won't be as um dominant. Okay, but
if we go on Spotify, where all the statistics are
visible to everybody on the desktop version, generally speaking, it's
hip hop that streams a certain amount of pop, then
a certain untain well Latin Latin is its own thing,

(01:25:13):
and a certain amount of country, and then rock down
at the bottom. So is it just a matter of
those audiences moving to the streaming services, or has the
younger generation said this is a hip hop world, screw
those other genres. I think they said this is a
hip hop world. But I don't think they said screw
those other genres. This is just what they're into right now.

(01:25:35):
You know, when when the chain smokers started getting big,
E d M, I mean used to write about this
all the time, like E d M was crushing, you know,
like they were like seventy five huge DJs that were
taking over the world, you know, and that eventually, you know,

(01:25:57):
kids were over it, and and and hip hop came
in and became, you know, the dominant genre. I think
that things are cyclical. I think rock will come back.
I think that hip hop will always do well, but
won't always necessarily do as well as it's doing right now.

(01:26:18):
So you're an intelligent, worldly guard. What's the intersection of
music with the political landscape, if there is any that's
when I you know, obviously, I've also read your newsletters
about this stuff. But I I you know, I'm curious why, Um,

(01:26:43):
there haven't been as many artists and songs that have
made an impact like in previous decades. Um. Uh, you
know the obviously I use the Chain Smokers as an
example for a lot of things. But past year they
wrote a song called sick Boy that um really address this,

(01:27:06):
and as big as they were, that that really didn't
get No one really caught onto that, you know. Um,
So I don't know the answer. I do think that
there will be an artist that kind of comes out
of nowhere, um with a lot to say, and that
people do rally around that artist, and you know, as

(01:27:28):
far as politics goes, so obviously, with the change Smokers,
you've broken the traditional release cycle. Do you believe acts
today ultimately have a shorter term or a longer term
in the marketplace. That's up to them. But I think
songs have a shorter term because you know, kids, um,

(01:27:50):
you know, teenagers and college kids um now are growing
up thinking that forty new songs a day is normal.
So they are used to burning a record out two
in a week or two weeks and then being onto
the next thing. So I think that it's harder and

(01:28:13):
harder to have, you know, quadruple platinum hits because songs
are getting used and like getting burned out super super
quickly by kids. You know. When I was younger, I
could listen to a song for on repaid for like
six months a year, you know. And I think that

(01:28:34):
the not that there aren't those songs now, but I
think that they are. They're fewer and farther between. So
I so, you know, the artists um lifespan is based
on them continuing to put out great music and create
continuing to build fan bases, But the songs themselves probably

(01:28:55):
have shorter lifespans. Okay, using the change Wokers in his
example just talk playing out some scenarios. If they had
never had another radio hit, do you think there live
business in their streaming would remain healthy? Yes, I mean
their catalog is pretty big. Okay, so you believe, just

(01:29:17):
like in the past, you have a catalog at lengthened
your career. I mean, yes, I do think so. Okay,
So what advice would you give a new act. It's
all about fans. Just all you have to focus on
is how to make fans and what your fans want

(01:29:37):
and feeding them and how you get them to help
you make new fans. I think you know, too many
new artists think that if they just get on a
playlist that they're good, you know, and I know you've
said it and everyone says it, But like there are
people that get millions of streams and can't sell a ticket,

(01:29:58):
you know, and there are people that sell tickets and
can't can't get millions of streams. But you know, if
you want to have longevity and you want to be
a real career artist like you have to have fans.
That's what the streaming services are looking for. They're not
just looking at how your songs are performing on their playlists.
They want to see that people care. So if you're

(01:30:19):
starting from zero, what's the best way to build a
fan base. I mean it's it's everything and anything. It's
you know, everything from playing an open mic night. You know.
I always tell like, you know, I signed artists very early.
You know, I'm a joint venture so we do artist development.

(01:30:39):
So I have to sign artists before the majors are
going to sign them, before they have things going on,
and really help them build from nothing. So you know,
there's some are some artists that I'm working with that
it's like, go play in this bar. I don't care
if there's ten people there. If you walk away with

(01:30:59):
three new fans, it was worth it. If three of
those people will go home and say I saw this
act last night and they were amazing. To their friend,
it was worth it. And you just build it like that,
just organically, and you just grind it out and you know,
just like like I was saying before, like Alex with
the blogs like the kids, spent ten hours writing a

(01:31:23):
thousand emails to every single blog, Like you have to
put in the work, um, and you know, you know,
obviously I see these things like people like paying to
get on playlists and like that's not the way to
do it. You really got you know, you really got
to do it. And if people like, if people believe

(01:31:44):
in you and they love your music and they believe
in what you have to say, like, it will grow,
it will. Okay. So once you've made it, which the change,
certain change workers most definitely have, how do you deal
with the fans? What's the best thing? I mean, you
wif letters whatever, you wouldn't do that now because you
already have an established base. To what degree do you

(01:32:05):
have to feed this fan base other than putting out
a track every month, playing two fifty shows a year
for seven years? Okay? And what about Instagram and and
snapchat and stories, etcetera? Amazing compelling content on a regular basis.
I mean, you know, every artists different. Alex and Drew

(01:32:25):
are fun, funny, smart, witty, like the things they say,
the videos they make, the jokes they tell. Their fans
love them for that stuff, and so that's why they
feed them with it. Okay. So let's say someone came
out with an incredible swat with if they didn't build
a fan base, etcetera, it couldn't happen organically. I mean

(01:32:51):
it did for us, with selfie. But you also say
that was a novelty fan base. Uh, but we had
to go on from that and make real fans and
start putting out the real music that we wanted to make. Okay,
so you're obviously an educated, intelligent guy. We live in

(01:33:11):
a world of incommittee quality. If someone wants to make
a lot of money, there are people who make twenty
million dollars a year at infiniteum at the banks, and
people make four million dollars a year. Do you think
the best and the brightest of your generation are going
into this world? You think the music business attracts this
caliber or the best of the price of going somewhere

(01:33:33):
where there's more money and more opportunity. I I don't.
I don't think it's black and white like that. Just
tell me. I know that you write about that too.
I think I think that if you love music and
you're passionate about music, and you are also brilliant, you
still go into the music business. Okay, Well, I would

(01:33:56):
just look at people. Obviously a different thing if they
look at people David Geff been irving gays off whatever.
Music was the thing that I like to think that
I was a pretty smart guy. Growing up, I did
not want to work at an investment bank and sleep
under my desk every single day out of college. I
didn't want to do that. I loved hospitality, I loved

(01:34:16):
entertaining people, and I loved music like I I. You know,
we didn't talk about this, but I've been a music
lover my whole life. I mean, you know, being in nightclubs.
You can't not be a music fan being in nightclubs,
and what kind of music do you play if you're
not conducting business? Um? So I am a die hard

(01:34:42):
Dave Matthews band fan. Really, how many times you've seen
the Dave Matthews And the best Dave Matthews work is album? Yeah?
Oh boy. I have to say Crash just because of
the number of favorites that I have on their But
my number one favorite song is not even on that album.

(01:35:03):
Your number one favorite song is it's called Recently? Okay,
I would say Before these Crowded Streets because of Dreaming Tree,
But okay, anybody else I love that answer because it's
not a common answer. But there's no way that's their
best album. I would know. I didn't say it was
the best album for me. Maybe that's my favorite. Okay,

(01:35:25):
maybe I know those are two different things. I agree,
Other than the Dave Matthews being anybody now or when
growing up? You're a fan Beatles? Yeah, my mom was
a beatlemaniac. Yeah, she was one of those screaming girls.
And you fell into the E d M thing. Are
you a hip hop fan? Oh? Yeah? I was a

(01:35:46):
biggie before I got into Dave Matthews. All I listened
to is Biggie. How did you get into Dave Matthews then? Um,
the real answer is I was in somebody's car and
it was playing and it wasn't even a single. It
was a song called Tripping Billy's and I was like,
what is this and they were like, this is Dave Matthews.

(01:36:09):
And I was like, this is Dave Matthews because I
knew their singles from the radio. And I went and
got the album that day and I listened to it
and repeat and I was like completely hooked. And then
I just became a fanatic. Okay, they have a great manager.
Corn capsule, Between were the manager, what would you advise
them to do that they may not be doing. I
wouldn't dare say that, But what I can say is

(01:36:30):
that I used a lot of I used a lot
of what I saw them do in building the Chain Smokers.
There were lots of little things that they did UM
in the late nineties and early two thousand's, and I
completely copied it, you know, and used those strategies for

(01:36:50):
the Chain Smokers. And how about the acts that made
it in the pre Internet era? Of the classic acts?
Actually they have any chance in today's world because generally speaking,
their music is not successful commercially. Acts from the pre
Internet erea era today, like give me an example, like
you two, can they be successful today? It's all about

(01:37:14):
the songs. So you think the songs they have just
in general, if you have a great song, you could
be a classic act. You could be sixty and the
song could be successful. Yes. I think the reason why
UM acts when they get much, very very successful over
decades and they get older, why they don't have hits,

(01:37:36):
new hits, is because I think it's very hard to
write the same way you did when you were young
and you weren't rich, and you didn't have the struggles
and you know, and you weren't married and you were
having relationships and you're heartbroken like you know, you don't
have that material to write about anymore, you know, so

(01:37:58):
I think that's that's the reason. I actually think it's
they have a fantasy that if they become very successful,
their lives will work. And when they reach the pinnacle
and their lives don't work, they lose the motivation, which
is not radically different from what you say. It depends
on the artist, that's for sure. Adam, this has been fantastic.

(01:38:19):
Thanks for all your insights. Can I can I give
one anecdotes? It's about you so um so obviously I've
been reading your newsletter for a long time. Um, you
probably don't know. I don't know if I told you this,
but the first time I met you was at Summit
at Sea. Really yeah, So I was on summit at

(01:38:39):
S and I went to your lecture and afterwards, Um,
you waited around to answer questions from people and we
chatted for like two minutes. And you know, you don't
I don't because you were the guy who continued to
talk when the other people went away. Maybe maybe that
maybe that's true. And you said, yeah, email me And
I said, oh, you answer emails and you said yeah,

(01:39:00):
if I know you, I answered them and you know
you didn't know anything about me, and uh, when I
got home, I wrote you this long email about, um,
how I did this showing a venture with Doug at
Sony and I have a chain smokers and we have
this really cool strategy and they're having their right now,
having their first hit. It was the song Roses, their

(01:39:22):
first real hit. And um, you didn't write back to me.
And then you wrote a newsletter about trying to talk
to Eric Schmidt from Google on someone at sea and
he blew you off and you like destroyed him in
this email. And you have the same experience with me. Okay.

(01:39:44):
Then I got an email from you. Hold on, I
get the email back from you, and you you know
what you wrote? What good luck? And I And I
was like, just because I have all my email, but
in this particular case, what I tell everybody that I

(01:40:04):
meet under those circumstances, say reference the fact that you
met me. Of course I said that. Okay, then there
was something in there was something. I guess what it was.
I'd have to go back to the actual email. Okay,
let me answer the question a little bit broader. I've
gotten into a lot of trouble saying anything about the

(01:40:28):
quality of material. I've had both good and bad experience.
I say something mildly positive, all of a sudden, you
see an ad, it's got my name in it. Okay,
say something negative. People call their followers out. Okay. In
your particular case, you're an aggressive guy. I thought you
were selling me. Now i'd have to go back to

(01:40:50):
the email, the emails for you. That's think that's four
years ago. Now, maybe I just fucked up. I mean,
that's certainly possible. Okay. The other thing was it was
you didn't It wasn't clear what you wanted from me.
I guess at the time, I was hoping you said, wow,
this sounds interesting, pretty cool. Let's talk like you did

(01:41:15):
six years later. Okay. Well, obviously for whatever reason I didn't.
Maybe you know, it's like people at the point that
I was trying to make the difference between a Schmidt
and that was Eric Schmidt blew me off live. I
didn't you blew you off? Okay, But your point, uh,

(01:41:35):
you know this is so I was gonna write back
what an Eric Schmidt type response? But I decided not to. Well,
you could I get that type of email all day
every time? I mean, I might not be sitting here
if I had written that email. No, you know that's
not you know, I don't know if I would have
remembered it to be honest with you, but you have to.

(01:41:55):
I mean, this gets into my life and it's really
a podcast about you. But there's not enough time for
me to do everything that I want to do, and
how I use my time may not be the appropriate
use of that particular time. But you certainly made it.
I don't didn't sound like it needed my advice. Thank you.

(01:42:19):
I appreciate it. Okay, until next time. This is Bob,
less sens

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Host

Bob Lefsetz

Popular Podcasts

United States of Kennedy

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Adam Alpert