Ahmet Zappa

Majordomo of the Zappa Trust, son of Frank and Gail (as they told him to call them from birth), TV show host, writer, entrepreneur, Ahmet Zappa grew up by the Utility Muffin Research Kitchen, he has stories to tell.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
My guest today is Amit Zappa, co trustee of the
Zappa Trust. I'm it great to happen. I'm so happy
I led your show. Happy to be here, you know,
thank you. Okay, what is the Zappa Trust? Uh, it's

(00:29):
it's the name that I guess. Um, our family business
fell under the mega Ubert description of all things Frank Zappa. Um,
you know, my my mother passed away a couple of
years ago, and you know, my dad passed away, you know,
uh over twenty some nine years ago, and everything was

(00:51):
put into a trust. And I didn't know much about
it until my mother passed away. And and you know,
I I got a real education pretty fast on on
what happens when you know, when your parents pat when
you become an orphan, what happens when your parents pass?

(01:12):
And you know, I had to figure out how do
you deal with the I R s? And how do
you put a price tag on intangibleles? How do you
um try to take something that wasn't to be totally honest,
very organized, and um you know, turn it into a

(01:35):
successful business, uh for everyone in my family. Uh So
I mean really, so your father died around that time
or just before he licensed all his music went to
write go was that a licensing deal? Do you still
own all his music? No? Uh, my dad instructed my mother. Yeah,

(01:59):
this is what I want to too. Right. Uh, well,
I don't know if it's instructed. They just had lots
of conversations my my my mother and father, you know,
business partners. My mom was a real pioneer. Um. And
you know, the Zappa business wouldn't exist if it wasn't

(02:21):
for h the two of them being real scrappy, you know,
because Frank financed everything. Um, you know, he got on
the road. The money that he would make, he would
put right back into projects. He pay all the musicians
and uh you know I think, yeah, I don't know

(02:42):
if if people know this, but prior to the Reiko question,
and I'll tell you what happened, uh, you know with
that deal. But you know, my mother was somebody that
was like, well, she gets these bills and she sees that,
you know, my out of staying at some hotels. And

(03:03):
I want to say, he was probably with somebody that
must have pissed my mother off, right, And um, you
know my dad apparently was a real coxsmith. You know,
he's really really laying it down with his man hammer.
So she finds out that, you know, he's with some
some chick, and think about this, there's four kids. She's

(03:27):
at home, you know, running the business, and she gets in,
Well she's piste off, but she uh says, whatever he
has spent on this whore, right, um, on this lady,
on this fan, on this groupie, or you know, I

(03:49):
don't know this person's name, there's probably bajillions on them. Uh.
My mother's like, I'm going to start a new business.
I'm going to invest the same amount of money that
he's spending on ladies on something called a mail order business. Right.
And she had collected um uh people that were going

(04:10):
to the concerts they would they would sign up and
what year was just you know this is this is
uh probably late seventies or eighties. And you know that
it was through her ingenuity, Uh that really the biggest
financial successes that my father ever had were directly because

(04:30):
of her. You know, she put something out that no
one had ever really uh thought of before, something called
a buck set. Right. So I want to say that
my my mother and father actually um you know, my
father gets the credit, but it's really my mother was like, well,
let's take all this vinyl that we have, old vinyl,

(04:52):
and bundle it and put it into a box and
add some other you know, bells and whistles to it,
and we put something I'll call the old Masters and
in a hundred dollar price tag. You know, this is
this is back in the day when they're still record stores.
You know. She she put together her own distribution deals
and and that really was probably the first time, uh

(05:17):
frank the family made millions of dollars. Really, yeah, Okay,
you brought up a lot of things. You instantly said
your father was not faithful to your mother. Did that
cause stress in their relationship? You know, I learned so
much of this, Um. You know that some of these
details just way later in life. Um, I remember arguments

(05:40):
and things. But uh, you know, I just I just
assumed it was just you know, your parents fighting, right,
and because they didn't really explain it to me. Um,
who knows, Maybe it was just them fighting, But I'm
I'm certain that my mother and father had and understanding.

(06:00):
I mean, it was it was it was, um, a
very interesting way to grow up. I I I mean
I was unaware of any of the other romances. And
my father would have had UM. I know he loved
our you know, our mother, UM because you know that.

(06:22):
I mean they stayed together through through all of it,
thick and thin. So UM, it's it's really right around
my when when my mother was probably only had a
few months left. Uh, I got up the courage to
just ask questions, yeah, to to you know, things that

(06:46):
I don't know if I ever needed the answers for.
But then once you kind of took the lid off,
and then the way that she answered certain questions, I
was shocked. I mean it's you know, I don't know, um,
if you are the kind of person and that if
your parents ever talked about hooking up with people like I,
I don't You're like, I don't want to know. Um.

(07:09):
And but she was pretty forthcoming with like, you know,
the the their shared experiences there. You know, it's it
was the seventies and they lived it up. And I
had no freaking idea if you would have told me, uh,
you know, I think if someone would have asked me,

(07:31):
do your parents ever have like three ways or do
anything like that? I would be like, fuck, no, and
I would have been dead wrong. Wow, let me just say,
Let me just say that there's you know, you you
discover a lot of things when you have to organize, um,
a household. Because my mother was also someone who who
never threw anything away, and every single thing under the

(07:56):
sun and moon was um preserved or uh documented in
some capacity. So fuck bro Okay, this is a very
interesting thing because your father was a legendary musician with
a long career until he was unfortunately cut down with cancer.

(08:16):
But when you when your mother died, she was still
living up at the top of Laurel Canyon. Right, Yeah,
that's right. So did you throw anything out? No, she
died and all the stuff was in the house. Oh yeah,
I mean it was when I have you ever seen
the documentary Grey Gardens? No, you should check it out.

(08:41):
When I say my mother didn't throw anything away, there
might be newspapers that are just all stacked in one
side that was a story my mother kept or thought
she was going to read later on. And um, so
she irrelevant to your father the famous she was a hoarder. Yeah,

(09:02):
she's she was, But I do I kind of think
that there's a method to her madness because she understood
what was in all the piles. You know, I'm the
same way. I'm a hoarder. I just had to move
and I had to throw stuff out. That's why I'm
interested in your story. Well, yeah, there was lots. There
was definitely lots of things to to get rid of. Um.
But I mean things like stack of newspapers that meant

(09:24):
nothing too, but anything attached your father. Did you throw
any of that out? I was in a really uh well,
my my reality changed the day my mother passed away.
That's when I learned that I was a co trustee
of the family business, and that actually comes with really
huge responsibilities. So she had never discussed that after she

(09:45):
dies in terms of the business. It never I didn't
get to have a conversation with her after her death,
no that before, because you got all these talks about
her wild and wooly life. She hadn't talked about after
she passed because she was sick about you're gonna have
you know, you know, give me a co trustee or
what now? I mean the I was already working and

(10:06):
helping her out, um prior to you know, right before
she even knew she was sick. Um. She was trying
to well, I have to go back to the recho.
So when my dad passed, my dad was like, you know,
why don't we sell the Masters keep publishing? And he

(10:29):
was like, you just get out of it. You know,
it's like a fucking horrible business, music business. You know,
go to Malibu and and you know, I relax, right,
and that my mother, I think took that to heart.
UM sold the then Masters to Raycodisc. But you know,

(10:53):
in the process, you know, many years later, um, there's
a there's something in the language, uh in the contract.
And my my father was really particular about um ah,
the sonic excellence of his music. And you know, he
was someone who, uh it was a real futurist and

(11:15):
he wrote papers about how in the future music I
think he even talks about it in the real Frank's
Apple book somewhere, um that in the future music was
going to be delivered telephonically, you know, through through the
internet essentially YouTube clip to where he goes on about this. So, um,
he put some language in the in in the the

(11:37):
sale that it couldn't be below a certain bit rate,
right because of compression and you know what have you?
And that that that was still emerging technologies, you know. UM,
and so Rycodisc winds up selling to Warners. UM, and
Warners tries to put out the music digitally and we're well,

(12:00):
you actually don't have those rights. And that became a
big lawsuit. And wait, wait, wait, if they sold it
to Warner, why couldn't they put out the music because
it didn't qualify to the language in the contract. There
was nothing about digital streaming or you know, so they
didn't have the right to do that. They didn't have
their rights. And part of um and this is this

(12:21):
is this is my understanding of it. I'm sure there
might be other people that you know, might have you know,
deeper richer information, meaning attorneys that you know, going through
the contracts, but I think just generally what I'm talking
about is pretty accurate. UM. So, long story short, they

(12:44):
didn't have the rights. Warners didn't have the rights. And
I think that in the sale um Ryko I think
presented to Warners that they could. So it was a
whole kerfuffle and and we were kind of in the
middle of it. And our whole thing was like, why
don't we partner and you know, figure this out and

(13:04):
do it together, and the heads of business affairs would
change so frequently in the business, UM that we were
kind of in this limbo land. And um, you know,
really before my mother's passing at one of her last birthdays, UM,
the family was able to actually get all the music back. Okay,

(13:28):
so at this point in time, all of those records
that were licensed to righto you now, oh uh, we
made a new UM partnership with Universal UM. And that's
kind of what I was, what I was brought in
I supposed to do. Before my mother passed. You know,
we had a big family sit down and my mother

(13:49):
explained to you know, the family that um, you know,
I you know, she first talk to me personally. It
was like, I can't fight for my life and fight
for this business and I need help and she needed
financial help, and UM, you know it's it's it's of
my opinion. You know. I did things I think differently

(14:10):
than my brother and sisters, and in that I left
at an early age the house. I went out on
my own. I didn't live off of the family business,
you know. Uh. So you know, I just I was
starting my own production company and just so I've worked
in other businesses and made my own money. So when

(14:31):
my mother needs help, needed help, I could provide financial
help or business help and um, and I was able
to really bail her out. Okay, before we get there,
is your deal with Universal? Is that a licensing deal
or do they own it? Um? It's uh, it's something

(14:52):
that I I don't think I can get into the
details of because it's it's still an ongoing, really great,
really really great relationship that I have with Okay, so
let's go back to the very beginning, because you've talked
about your life. When do you realize your father is
Frank's appa. I mean, my parents introduced themselves to us

(15:14):
as Frank and Gale and never called a mom and dad.
So he was he was Frank. Yeah, but I meant
really in terms of his fame, notoriety, place in the culture.
I didn't ever think about it, you know. Um, I
know that sounds like maybe a cop out answer, but
you know, if my friends at school and preschool, like

(15:36):
one could be a lawyer, one could be an actor,
one could be a bus driver or whatever it was
the profession you know they were. My friend's parents were
equally as famous for just being a parent. You know
what I mean it had nothing to do with Uh.
I think what you're scratching at, like, oh, it should
be some unbelievable miracle that my dad is, you know

(15:58):
for Zapple. Like, my dad was just someone who uh
always championed my creativity, let me be a fly on
the wall in his business meetings. UM was really interested in,
uh what our interests were, because I think we, as

(16:19):
his children, influenced UM him in many different ways. You know.
I mean I assume this because as a father myself,
I see naturally what my kids are into and it
informs me and I have opinions about it, you know.
So UM, I guess I I reflect back on, uh

(16:44):
those times with my with my dad as remarkable because
my really really my mother and father are were so
unique because they um I think made decisions to not
be like their own parents, and UM gave us the
freedom to develop and choose our spiritual spirituality. UM so

(17:11):
as parents, UH and all of us being different in
in our house, Like my brother was super interested in
music and playing guitar, and you know, they had that
kind of relationship and UH, and I think with my
mother and father had equal interest and just how they
were doing things. You know, How how were they able

(17:32):
to pay for something? How when you conceive of a
creative idea, how do you see it from the beginning, middle,
and end? How do you complete something? You know? Um?
And they really instilled instill the fearlessness in me too,
just you know, deeply believe that anything is possible. And

(17:55):
you know, I mean it served me well. Okay, So, uh,
Frank was working a lot. Did you have any of
the luxuries of having a famous patient of a parent,
going on vacation, eating and fine restaurants any of that? Uh? Yeah,
I mean, but again, I feel like all my my

(18:18):
answers are boring, kind of few and far between. Uh,
because my my dad would either be on the road
or he was just a homebody because the studios at
the house. Um. And he was such a night owl
that I missed a lot of things. You know, people
would he would send out for food. Um. The fine

(18:42):
dining experiences happened in places like Le Cirque, where you know,
I'm sure we embarrassed him. I remember, I remember when
one moment when he was really sick and he was
working on the Yellow Shark. I don't know if you
know that that record with the ensemble Modarren and and
so we're in Frankfurt and I forgot the name of
the hotel that were staying at, but it was a

(19:03):
you know, fancy hotel. And I see him in the distance.
He's having some meeting and I wanted to say it
was you know, me, d Weasel and Moon. I don't
think Deva was present, um, you know, but we were
all there as a family. And I started doing this
like really bad jazz bo dance to the you know,

(19:27):
the jazz Pierre player, right, And I gotta say that,
normally that would make my dad chuckle. But the pressure
that he was under or the feelings he was feeling, um,
I chalk that up to like, wow, that I really
ship the bed this hard because you know, like I'm

(19:49):
I'm I'm freaking out doing this weird dance cookie dance,
and from a cross room, I get like there's like
a smile for a moment and then this fucking look
right and he comes over and I've never this is
like the most corporate fucking thing I ever said to me.
It was like, this hotel is part of a chain

(20:12):
and if you ever want to stay here again, you
should not. You know do that, And I was like, wow,
that is I wasn't expecting that, you know, right, but
he'd obviously you know that was here when people got
kicked out of a lot of hotels, he learned a lesson. Well, uh,

(20:34):
that felt very very unusual. Uh, you know, I think
normally those kinds of things would be celebrated unless you
were interrupting, I suppose, And maybe maybe I'm an answer
my own question right now as I'm reminiscing about this.
Unless you were messing with his you know work, right,
the workflow, then that was a severe annoyance. Well how

(20:59):
often did you go on the road with him? Um,
half a dozen times? So not that man, it wasn't
a family thing. We're all going to get on the bus. Well,
I was born in seventy four, so um, I don't
know how many tours that were kind of in between. Um,
I mean, if if memory serves, I remember going to

(21:21):
London a lot, Germany a lot. Um. Yeah, I mean
we would, we would kind of travel, but my mother
and father had friends and it was pretty exciting, two
exciting times. But my dad got sick when I was fifteen,
so it really kind of stopped like that. Tour. He

(21:43):
wasn't feeling good. There was bad situations happening with the
band members, and you know, so it really changed. Uh. Okay,
you talked about your father being in night all. I
once heard a story that your father would work his
way around the clock and that he would work till
he was done and then he would sleep and then
whatever time of day it was. Is that true or untrue? Yeah? Time,

(22:07):
there there's no some there's no schedule like that. He
was he would work until he was exhausted. But I
think he was. The work was so fun and he's
just so prolific. You know. We have thousands and thousands

(22:27):
and thousands of tapes, so much music in the vault
he recorded everything. Where those tapes today we have them
safe and secure. I don't know if you know of
a place called Iron Mountain, UM, but they've been really great. Um.
You know, everything used to be housed in a you know, uh,

(22:50):
pretty decent temperature controlled space UM in our you know,
at at what used to be our family home. Uh.
And then when the business because it was run out
of the house when we when we had to sell
the house was actually instructed in the trust really after
your mother died, you have to sell the house. Yeah. So,

(23:12):
like you know, people just have the I'm sure the
worst opinion about I'm some fucking nightmared, you know, douchebag
or something, But in my opinion, it's not. OK. Let's
go back a little bit to the history. You say
you left home at what age? Um? I moved out
around eighteen? You know what was your thought? I wasn't

(23:35):
really thinking about it. What did you do when you
were eighteen? Your parents ever talked to you about going
to college? Oh? No, I because of you were because
of them? Um. I dropped at a school in the
beginning of eighth grade. I missed more than half a
year of school each year prior to that. My parents
felt that school was ruining my creativity. So what they

(23:56):
would do instead? Um? Up A tell you know, I
guess I moved out and started making my own money. Um.
They would invest in my creative endeavors, which would be what. Well? Um,
At one point I had this notion, Um, they found

(24:19):
this guy to help me out. I can't remember his
first name was Wally, and I'm totally blanking on his
on his last name, it could have been like Wally,
like Fiser, or something. UM but I was interested in
doing something you know, different with credit cards. So as
a thirteen year old or twelve year old, UM, I

(24:40):
was like, well, how come there is no credit card
for for kids? And you know, I want to get
more benefit because I was looking at the back of
these um my dad's like cigarettes and you know, there
was like the cigarette points and I was seeing some
of these uh loyalty programs right, and I was like, well,
why can't we do that with credit cards? You know,

(25:01):
why can't I get more benefits if I want to
go see a concert or go see a movie, you know,
where's my lifestyle card? Why don't you know we create
this kind of like cashless society. And UM, I came
up with this plan to do to make something called
a report card and to utilize um some of the

(25:23):
it's only really in the last couple of years is
the technology here. But because I had traveled, they credit
cards there had chips, you know, and you can put
so much more information on the chips. So I wanted
to have this smart card that could create a loyalty
program around. UM I guess stuff. I was interested in
entertainment and you maybe put money back into the school system.

(25:47):
So I was calling it the report card. Um. And
you know, I was really interested in in the local
restaurants and businesses that were around schools because I figured, well,
then kids couldn't all the They also learned to be
more responsible with their money. The parents were the ones
that could, um, you know, put your allowance on it right,

(26:09):
and you couldn't buy drugs with it, you know what
I mean. It was accepted everywhere. What did you do
drugs when you were a teenager, I've never I've never
tried any drugs. I've never smoked pot. My wife thought
I was so, I guess boring. She introduced me to tequila,
and now I'm a fucking massive sean, you know, among

(26:31):
other alcoholic beverages. But when you move out, what do
you what do you do for work? What do you
do for income? Well, you know, as an example, um,
just in terms of the the access I think, I don't.
I don't think American Express or Visa or MasterCard. UH
would have taken the phone call from a twelve year old.

(26:53):
But my parents, knowing I wasn't going to school, They're like,
all right, well, let's go to White Plains. Let's go,
you know, fly and see all the heads of the
credit card companies. And this is when I pitched out,
which essentially is like loyalty programs for credit cards right
as a kid, you know. And I would make do
these presentations and kind of walk in there pretty fearlessly

(27:15):
and say like, hey, this is why I think you
should do it. And that's just an example of how
my parents supported, you know, my business ideas and and um.
And I've just been kind of fortunate in the way
that people would go and see Frank and discuss new
ideas with him, or he would engage with with people

(27:38):
around an idea he had, and and his gravitational pull
for interesting characters. UM, I feel like I have that
same thing happening in my world to some extent. You know,
I I wind up meeting very interesting individuals, and I,
you know, connect the dots. You know. I've been involved

(28:00):
in tons of different businesses. I mean when I when
I left, I guess I was a child actor uh
and made somewhat of a living um uh. And then
I started hosting shows with my brother and um we
played in a band together. And and you know, then

(28:21):
I went off on my own and really wanted to
become a storyteller, and I wound up setting up I
wrote my first book, the UM The Monstrous Memoirs of
a Mighty Make Fairless. I wound up selling that to
Disney for a million and a half dollars and selling
it around the world for millions of dollars. And UH
set up my production company at Disney, and then started

(28:44):
a really unique kind of production company where I had
one foot in consumer products and one foot in the
motion picture group and worked on a lot of interesting
pieces of technology with imagineering and UM, I really suit
things that my father or in a lot of cases

(29:04):
my mother inspired me with stuff that they fantasized about
that UM stoked the flames of my own imagination. And
I think because of the access that I had, I
just learned things from the access I had from being
a fly on the wall with my dad. UH piqued
my curiosity, and you know, I learned enough, I guess

(29:28):
to be dangerous by not going to school and not
having my creativity ruined and not going to college. You also,
I've I've just been able to I've only ever had
jobs in the entertainment industry, and I've i've survived. Okay,
But you famously hosted a show for a while, right,
how did that come together? What was that? I've hosted
thousands of hours of television, shitty, shitty fucking television, and honestly,

(29:53):
it would give me diarrhea to be so nervous about it.
I was. I think I was mostly known for uh,
controlled chaos. You could give me bullet points and say like, okay,
we need we need to somehow. You need to steer
this crazy ship that's going down in flame. You need
to land this plane, right, And that's Those are the

(30:14):
kinds of jobs that I would get. But when you
say I hosted some show, I don't know which one
you're talking about, because there's honestly been a tremendous amount
of serious you were involved in for a number of years,
which one bro you know, like, uh, you know, for
for the for the people that care at all. You

(30:35):
can see the pilot dog ship that I've been associated with,
UM And maybe that's a terrible thing to say about
the shows that I was interested because it paid my
bills and I had good times, and I was never

(30:57):
happy doing hosting. UM A lot of those shows, the
the only the big regret, um, is that I had
the opportunity. I actually auditioned a couple of times to
be the host of Let's Make a Deal, and that
was always my dream job. I love that. I love
that show. Okay, but you think like that would make

(31:19):
you happy, would have made you happy. I do like
the I love sitting down and talking with people, and
I thought that was a pretty interesting format because it's
a bunch of crazy crazy is getting dressed up, and
you know, I love the whole Monty of it all
where he put his hand in his pocket and be like,
all right, you can take hundred bugs here, or you
can find out what's behind door number one or door

(31:40):
number two. Tell them. I could not I could never
get enough of that show. That was my favorite of
the afternoon game shows. Loved and that that's that's like
my anything that smells like that or feels like that.
I would totally do that kind of a thing. Again.
I'm very I'm comfortable in that setting. I like doing

(32:02):
talk shows. I like sitting down with you because we're
having a conversation. I feel like there's a real connection. Um.
But I guess the part that was more stressful is
sticking to a script. Um is just you know, learning
the lines to deliver that. This sort of business was.

(32:24):
It was always pretty stressful. So I'm okay. And in
this window, somewhere along the line, you married Selma Blair,
who was a movie star at the time. How did
that come together? I actually saw her. She was she
had a boyfriend the time, sitting on some dudes's lap.
I was at this restaurant called fred Siegel um or

(32:44):
I forgot the restaurant at fred Siegal. I forgot what.
I forgot what it's called actually right now. Um, but
I was with my friend Jules, and she walks in
and I had seen her in um other cool intention
or something, and I was like, you know what, like
I should marry, Like that's that's someone I should marry.

(33:08):
Rights totally totally random. Uh. And then a few months later,
a mutual friend I didn't know her at all, but
a but a mutual friend, um actually introduced us and um,
you know that was that was that was crazy that

(33:29):
I got married. I got married and Princess Leah's backyard, right,
So Carrie Fisher demanded, Yeah, Carrie demanded, you know, like
you have to get married here and on that particular
day where she was off meds or I don't know
what happened to her, but for someone who insisted on

(33:51):
us getting getting married at her house, she showed up
and was like, who are all these people? And what
is going on? Right? Um? And believe me, it wasn't
a surprise. You. You kind of got to be organized
if you're gonna, you know, have all that stuff going on.
So that's you know, that was a pretty funny experience.

(34:11):
And uh, when we were looking at her house as
a location, UM, this is so fucking funny to me.
Hopefully you'll appreciate the story. But we were all in
Carrie's room, my mother Tracy Ullman. This is not mean
name dropping. I'm just trying to set right. So Carrie Selma,

(34:33):
my mother, Tracy um and like you know, Carrie would
have people just hang out in her bedroom. I don't know.
It's so if you if you were friendly with her, um,
well you know she there's a lot of similarities I
think in um art appreciation with with Carrie and my mother,

(34:54):
and they were friendly. My my mom and Carrie, you know,
I knew each other socially. So we're again we're hanging
out in her room and everyone leaves, except we're walking
into her kitchen and I remember seeing I remember seeing

(35:15):
Tracy's shoes and um, so I was hanging back with
my mother for for ten seconds. Right. So now it's
just the two of us walking out of the out
of the Carrie's bedroom together, um to walk towards the kitchen,
and I see Tracy's shoes, uh, and it's like she's

(35:37):
trying to plug in a lamp underneath the piano in
the living room, right, And I thought it would just
be really funny to play the Exorcist, you know, play
two tubular bells while season in there. So I decided
to aggressively play that tune. And then you know, Tracy
and Carrie uh and Selma come out of the kitchen

(35:59):
like into the living room. So I'm like, well, who
the funk is now under the piano and like I'm like, well, funk,
I'm that's what an assholic thing for me to do.
And it was Debbie Reynolds, right, her mom, Carrie's mom
under under the piano, and I'm playing the Exorcist. But
then Carrie was looking at her mom under the piano

(36:21):
as I'm playing the Exorcist and it was kind of
like the perfect moment if you've read any of Carrie's autobiography.
So it turned out to be a pretty hysterical moment
for Just to be clear, So what you thought were
Tracy Ullman shoes were ultimately Debbie Reynolds. Yes, what? I
just what? I I because of the shoes, I just

(36:42):
assumed it was Tracy under the piano and it turned
out it was Carrie Fisher's mom. Okay, so how does
it end with Selma? Uh? Pretty? It was pretty traumatic
for me. I had to I had to go to
a behavioral list afterwards and tried to understand why I

(37:04):
had such a bad job of picking, you know, people
to spend h to get into romantic relationships with. Um it,
you know, we we ultimately got divorced, and you know
it's pretty sad. But she's going through now. Do you
have any contact with her? No? Not really. You know,
of course I wish her and I don't. I don't

(37:26):
think contact with the X is too much history. No,
she's she's she's reached out. But it's pretty pretty traumatic
for me. I mean, what would she leave you? Or? Honestly,
if I'm being really blunt. Um, she might have been
turned out to be the meanest person I've ever been
in a relationship with um, because there were she had

(37:49):
some some personal uh issues, you know, um that you know,
She's had other scenarios. I'm sure people can read about,
you know, but um, and I really do wish her.
I wish her well. But for me, I wound. I
found myself cataloging like how many drinks someone might have,

(38:15):
you know, and and like becoming very aware of of
how personalities could change if you know, X, Y or
Z happens, And it made me a little a little
cuckoo in having to it was. It was really strange.
If I really reflect on on my life to this,

(38:38):
to this moment, I think, um, my mother and father's
relationship and the stress it might have caused my mother
in maybe his dalliances with other women, UM, and or
my mom's up and ups and downs. It was. It
was a pretty harsh reality when I saw a behavioral

(38:59):
listed and that he was like, well, so basically you
you married your mother, right, And I was like fuck that.
I didn't not like fuck you for even saying that,
what do you mean? You know? And then when I
started to kind of get underneath what I think. You know,
he was saying, not only was was I going through,
uh the pain of you know, because I'm a pretty

(39:23):
intentional person. If I say I'm gonna do something, uh
and make a commitment, I that's it really important to
me and I the failure of the marriage was a
huge blow to me. You know that that notion. I
never thought it was going to be someone that would
ever get divorced or um uh. I think I just
swung the toll polar opposite way of of I guess

(39:46):
the relationship that the energy I was feeling from my parents,
if that makes sense, which I felt the same way.
You know, I got divorced. My X left me, and
after you left, I was I never would have divorced her.
It's like my parents stayed together. My parents flought same thing.
Really fucked me up. Yeah, it was. It was hard

(40:09):
to to deal with. But I found myself being a
really harsh critic of of the choices I made. But
I have to say, uh, and maybe this is just
bumper stick or wishful thinking. If all roads lead to
the road that you're on, um uh. That journey of

(40:33):
self discovery after the fact of you know, why was
I attracted to say, let's say, like chaos, right, Um?
It led me to I truly I worship my wife. Okay,
So how long after you were done with Salma did
you meet your wife? A couple of years? And how

(40:54):
did you meet her? Um? Through a mutual friend actually, UM.
And what's interesting is we had probably been in the
same place at the same time, you know, dozens of times,
and just never you know, laid eyes on one another.

(41:15):
Not that I'm sur prize, but my wife is because
it was your wife in the business she she uh yes,
but for a brief moment of time if you mean
the business like an actress or something of that, she
I think, you know, dabbled and then then no, she's
like funk that noise? Amout. What kind of background did

(41:35):
she come from? So she grew up in Los Angeles,
her brother who's who's a great actor. UM and you
know really my brother as well. You know, I feel
so blessed in that. Really when I married into her family,
very different style of parenting, UM, very different uh um

(42:02):
support system. You know, I think the environment I was in,
UM could have been pretty competitive, you know, and and
her her world is just everyone is, um pretty supportive.
Um not. That's not to say that, you know, my
parents were totally supportive, because they were, but it would

(42:25):
it would be like a whole other shell hours to
kind of go over why the subtle differences. But they're
they're there, they are different. Um Uh, how many kids
do you have? I have two little ones? How old
are they? Have? An eight year old who will be
nine in December, and I have three year old. My

(42:46):
daughter is the oldest and my son is the youngest.
He just he just turned three. Okay, are you going
to raise them like your parents raise? You're gonna do
a one eight. I don't even put too much thought
into it, you know. My philosophy, um is a lot
of communication. Obviously with my wife, communication is super important.
But um, I I suppose the thing I'm consciously doing

(43:12):
different if I'm thinking about my dad is I'm I'm
more available, you know. And I did this. I put
the show together called The Bizarre World of Frank Zappa,
which is this whole multimedia schmorge Bourg of awesome. And
it was, you know, all my a bunch of my
dad's band members, people who loved to play with. They

(43:35):
went out on the road, um and it was this
you know, fantastic show and will go out again in
the in the near future. But um I I spent
so much time directing, conceiving of all the visuals and
the storytelling that's associated with the with the music, um

(43:56):
that when it actually came time to show time and
I traveled with the tour, and that was the first
time I've been been away from my kids, I was like, wow,
I'm kind of like living. It was surreal because I
felt like I was my dad, not not like I
was him, but like um uh I was um. I

(44:20):
created a similar dynamic that my father had when he
was out on the road, where when he would call,
I had just these fleeting moments that were so meaningful,
meaningful for me, and all I had was a telephone
and I would miss him so much, right and and
think about like when he is he coming home and

(44:40):
all of this stuff. Um and I was I would wonder,
you know, was what he is he thinking about his
kids and the family? You know, just thanks to think
about when you're a kid and then here I am
as an adult roughly the same kind of age on
the like you know, the roles have reversed and that
was a real trip to to to do that. But

(45:02):
then it's also my dad's music that that's in the show.
Uh so it was pretty cathartic too. It's on so
many levels it was to to be in that experience
and meet so many fans of my dad's music. Um,
it made a huge impact on on me as as

(45:24):
I understand uh who I am as a father, you know,
and you know I I they love me, you know
what I mean. I don't have any kids, but I
take your word for it. Let's go back. So you
say you start working with your mother a year about

(45:44):
a year before she passes on financial batters. I'm a
little confused the trust you still own the publishing to
the music. Yeah, so the financial matters are The cost
of the long legal battle was millions, I mean five
six million dollars some crazy, right, So she was really

(46:04):
in the hole. And part of the way to get
the music back was UM when when the when that
UM deal was struck. Uh, there's you know, payments, right
and if she was ever to default on the payments,
then we'd lose the music. So uh, it was a

(46:25):
pretty hefty price tag because she sold the music for
a lot of a lot of money. So then to
be able to buy the music back to get it back, um,
you know I would, I'd get a fucking call. Uh,
She's like I need a million dollars in a month.

(46:46):
You know, like, ah, what the fuck? I'd have to
figure that out. Um, and I did that a couple
of times. Actually, So where do you get the money from?
You know, I would organized business deals or or make
new kinds of I'd have to analyze the assets, you know. Um,

(47:08):
I put in my own money, and you know, I
just I did whatever whatever we could do, UM to
make sure our our business partners were satisfied, and obviously
try to do the best that we could. UM, with
a mindful eye on you know, this is this is

(47:28):
my mother's livelihood. It's you know, she lost the man
she loved. And you know, as as as much as
I think my older brother or older sister, or my
little sister, or even myself have opinions about what it
could it should have, you know, it was always my
sort of point of view. It's like, it's not my business.

(47:50):
I didn't make the music. I wasn't I wasn't my
dad's business. Partner, you know, and so I have had
no attachment to um, the a, the money or be um.
You know, it really wasn't something that I wanted to do.

(48:13):
Let me say it this way. My mother was someone
like you know, she's she's big, she's a big Democrat
and UM you know she she don't she would donate
a lot of money to cause us she believed in
And there was this opportunity to go have a photo
op with the you know, then president and vice president.

(48:33):
And she calls me and says, hey, do you want
to go to this this event? And I say not
at all. I'm not interested. I'm sure other you know,
I'm sure other people would be interested. And she so
she's like, well, this is why I'm taking you because
everyone else wants to go. I'm like, well great, I

(48:55):
really don't want to go. And then it would become
an argument, which is like, well I want to take you.
So you know that I think in a weird way,
UM in that my being self sufficient or trying to
be fair minded for all of the family members, um,

(49:16):
which I really genuinely take seriously and I want to
try to do. Uh. I think that that's why I
woke up with this. Um why she asked me for
help because she she would all the time, you know,
like a Okay, just to be clear, your three siblings,
were they capable of giving help? I'm talking about business insight?

(49:37):
Were they not that kind of person now that financially
I don't I don't think that they. Um, I don't
think so. But I mean they might have a different opinion. Um.
But were they living off the family money or were
they making their own money? I don't really know to
the extent all of those details. I mean, they're a

(50:00):
lot of help given. You know, my brother didn't move
out until he was thirties seven or thirty six or something,
which to me is just not my lifestyle. You know that.
I was like, I want my own space. I don't
want to have my bedroom next to my mother's, you know.
I mean, like that doesn't make a bit of sense,

(50:21):
you know. But there were some pretty awkward, funny moments, uh,
you know that I've shared with you know, like when
when he got married, my mom was like, okay, you're
you're married now and you need to get out, you know. Uh,

(50:43):
And but you should ask him about you should have
on the show because he's he's a super amazing talented UM.
You know, a musician, he's a he's a like he's
a mutant, like my dad was a mutant. You know.
He does things with his instruments that are he's I mean,
he's so he's so phenomenal. I wish that for him.

(51:06):
If he was born like ten years earlier, he would
have been more popular than Edward Van Halen, you know,
like he just I think he missed this window. Um.
And his music style, in my opinion, has just changed
a lot because he's you know, by by playing Frank's
music and really studying it. Um. He again, watch him
play it's it's it's fucking insane. He's he's really amazing. UM.

(51:31):
And my my older sister inspired me in so many
ways because she she does a lot of stand up. Um.
She wrote her her first book, and I really thought, like, wow,
I'd love to be able to achieve, you know, for
someone you know that dropped out of high school, miss
more than half of years, coolie year and super super

(51:53):
bad dyslexia. By the way, I have a really weird
learning disabilities. Um. The idea of of accomplishing what she
accomplished was so inspiring to me. Um, and and she
was there for me more than I think my mom
was too all the time. And I really I was

(52:14):
really bummed out when she moved out, Like that was
a huge blow to me. She she moved out I
think when she was eighteen two, Um, and I was gutted.
You know, she she's like super mama bear like well,
was always cooking something, making cy tea and you know
it's uh, you know it's it's it's just so it's

(52:38):
just a fucking bummer. That's That's what what happens when
when like family members died, people call birds go insane,
birds going sane. That's all I can say. Uh, it's
it's just a bummer. Okay, So your mother then dies
and it's public information that she does not divide the
estate equally. Yeah, what is the inspira nation for that to?

(53:01):
What did we are you're were it's going to go
down that way? And what are the family members reactions
to that? I mean not not great? I mean I
I think I know why, Um, that decision was made. Uh,

(53:22):
my mother had a life insurance policy that she bought
after she sold the Masters, and you know some of
the financing here, I can't speak someone who probably selves
life insurance policies will kind of know what I'm talking about, UM,

(53:43):
but I'll try to explain it. So, she prepaid for
this this this big you know, life insurance policy, and
there's something that, uh, I guess she wasn't aware that
was in there. Um. And the way that she did
the policy is that she was under the impression that
she ever needed money, she could borrow against it. But

(54:06):
there's this thing called a mech that was in there
that I guess would have had to make her pay
like a crazy amount on taxes. Right. That was never
part of um of her understanding. Right. So actually, when
she needed to uh make some make a payment to

(54:27):
save all the music, um, she reached out to all
of us kids, and UM, she was like, hey, listen,
you know I want to try to this is ultimately
your life insurance policies for you guys, that I did,
But what's more important to you money or saving the
family business? And for me it was no question, like,

(54:49):
you know, I think the family is the most important
and uh, yeah, if you needed whatever you need, you
should do. Uh. My little sister was the same, and
my older UM brother and older sister just had a
different opinion. Um. And I think that I think that

(55:09):
that's a big part of it's a big disappointment because
it was a lot of arguing that that was going
on between a lot of stress for me because I
had to I was the person. I had to find
the money to make these payments, you know, So she
never did cash in the life interests, um, because I

(55:30):
found I found the resources. Um. But I think that
the notion of like, well, what's what's more important? You know,
and all these demands were made not by my my,
my diva diva or I you know, I think that
just was not a good feeling. But the demands being

(55:51):
what kind of demands did the other to make? You know,
you should ask them because you know I already get
beaten up enough fight, Well, this is your chance to
tell your side of the story. Well, no, I mean,
I'm I'm I'm not trying to hold anything back, but
I mean they you should genuinely No, I'm just trying
to understand before your mother passed, they weren't interested in

(56:14):
saving the family business, but did they also want to
sell it so they could get the cash? Is that
what it was about? They wanted. Um yeah, I mean
you'd have to ask them. But the way I interpret
it is like, well, it was never our money to
begin with, it was. There's so she's asking us what

(56:37):
to do because the reason why she's asking is we
would all have to agree, right, So in all of
us agreeing, um, I think revealed I think the future,
you know. And it's of my opinion that in that moment,

(56:57):
if if she was going to put people that will
do what's right for the entirety of the family in place,
That's how I view it, you know, And that's my
goal is I essentially work for the entire family as
a co trustee. All it means is that someone has
to have the ultimate authority to say yes or no

(57:19):
to something. It's that doesn't prohibit you know, I'm not
going to prohibit anyone in my family from everyone to
do something that is our mutual legacy. If you will, right,
we all get the benefit from it. But there's just
you know, I think it's just weird. It's just weird, Okay. Well,
the famous story is about Dweezl going on the road

(57:43):
in the issue of his right to be able to
do that, he made a lot of public statements. What's
your viewpoint on that? Well, um, I can tell you
what happened. So uh, he was like, Okay, this is
this is my business. Um and you know, if you

(58:05):
it's so boring, but you know, think of it from
this perspective. I think in nineteen seventies six, my father
trademarked Zappa okay and ah, And anytime you get into
new businesses, if it was like a new trademark where
you for anyone who knows trademark law or has trademarks,

(58:31):
if you're going to be selling T shirts with a
you know, a name or a phrase on it or whatever,
there's just different classes. Right. So as a family business,
we own these marks, right, and I think it's really misleading. Uh.
And a lot of people think that that I tried
to trademark the name, uh, which is no. I. I

(58:57):
continue to uphold our marks so that we can act,
we protect the legacy which is there, which is my
older brother and older sister's legacy as well, you know. Um,
and you know there a lot of that got totally
blown out of uh proportion, And honestly, really I felt

(59:19):
like I was really being bullied by my older siblings
to be if I'm being really honest, and I was
in the frame of mind that it's not. Um, it's
really not something I feel like ever really talking about
because I feel like it's nobody's business. It's family business.
But they you know, you can look at statements I've
made and statements that they've made, and I try to

(59:42):
keep it as um, you know, as private as possible. Uh.
And maybe I'm saying way too much. Maybe I'm totally
contradicting that notion. But at least up until this moment,
I really haven't haven't talked. You're asking me, and I am.

(01:00:03):
It's I feel like no one should air their own
family business. But I can honestly tell you that, yeah,
you know, my feelings were totally hurt, and so many
mean things were have been said and done, and you know,
I would never do anything to hurt my my family members.

(01:00:25):
Family to me is the most important thing, period. And UM,
I don't feel entitled to anything. Um. And if you know,
you asked earlier. And I think when people think that
there's a money discrepancy, right, if you really think about it, UM, well,

(01:00:47):
at least at least in in my case, there were
things that even weren't. Uh, that's still needed to like
teas need to be crossed in eyes that needed to
be dotted. Any chance I could um to have everyone
have more. That's that's every action I took, you know.

(01:01:08):
But the thing is it's an irrevocable trust, right, and
that means that I can't go against it and they
can't go against it. And so that doesn't make me
an asshole. It's just like I'm I'm by law. My
I have to follow the rules. You know. Now, if
people can all unanimously agree on something, maybe things can happen. Right,

(01:01:30):
but you know so far that you know, at least
in our family at this moment, you know, things are good. Now.
It took a while to you know, to kind of
you know, all get on the same page. And I
really choked it up to um, you know, the loss
of I mean, honestly, there's no one else to complain to.

(01:01:52):
You know, you are your parents still around, you know
right right? My mother is ninety, almost gonna be nine three.
She's losing it. So but you know, the weird thing is,
like all I feel, all the issues that that went
maybe unsaid to Frank then got put into my mother
and you want answers, and you know, x y or
Z and I really really worked on my relationship with

(01:02:18):
my mother in terms of forgiveness or you know, I
had nothing left to to worry about, you know, and
I'm not I was never going to change her. And
that's what I learned, which was I want to be
able to have the best relationship that I can. And
you know whose fault is it? And I think I

(01:02:38):
believe this for any human being. If you know that
you have issues with certain people, but you you keep
going back into you know, having issues, UM, be smarter
about it, you know, have you think of it, think
of it in a different way, make make the try
to do the best you can. You know that. That's

(01:02:59):
that's I try to be pretty passive, you know. So
your brother was on the road and news would say
you wanted a license for use of the name. He
always had a license, I mean the whole. So what
happened was I came up with this idea too. I
called my brother and well I met with um you'll

(01:03:24):
probably know who he is, uh, Bob Dylan's tour manager,
and the this this other guy named Danny Heaps, and
I floated this notion of um going back and going
out on the road, uh and playing Frank's music so

(01:03:45):
that you know, new new people could discover the music.
This years ago and I was like, I'll you know,
I'll call in and you know, see if my my
brother might want to do it with me, because I
after my dad passed, I really had an estranged relationship,
UM with my brother. We started, I mean, we we

(01:04:05):
did so much work together and you know, um, I
don't know, it's just it's still kind of a mystery
to me to this day. Um around it just feelings
and things after after my father passed. But um, so
I wanted to create this opportunity to say, like, hey,

(01:04:26):
we haven't played music together in a while, why don't
we try to help out, you know, the family business
and do this you know thing called Tappa plays Appa.
So when I called him, um, he was like, you know,
I'll just do that, you know, on my own, or
or that won't ever happen. You know, that's not real.

(01:04:48):
Now I'd already contacted, uh, the the people that my
dad worked with that you know, when for those of
you who don't know, if you're you know, you have
a band, you might talk with the booking agent. They uh,
we'll tell you how much you can get for you know,
advance on the shows and all of that stuff. So
so I've done all the legwork. So I basically came

(01:05:10):
with a you know, Turkey operation, and um, I said, look,
there's this is just already in in play. Why don't
you know come to a meeting, come, you know? He
just he didn't believe it, right, So we all sit
down and we have a we have a meeting, and
it's like it's very real, and I'm like, all right, well,

(01:05:32):
now it's time to go and talk with arm you know,
with Gail and try to get this going. And the
way that it was ultimately organized was, so, if it's
going to be Zappa plays Zappa, my mother her feelings were,
is that fair to Diva and Moon? So she was like,

(01:05:52):
I'm going to create this entity called Zappa plays Zappa
that anyone named Zappa, right, it's uniquely, it's just unique
for the family that should anyone ever want to do
anything with Frank's music, this is the entity, right, and
so cool, Well, I'm down with that. And then my mother,
my brother, myself we went on a world tour to

(01:06:13):
promote around the world that this is this is what
we were doing, and um it, you know, we were
we were all moving forward and and then I just
got into this scenario where you know, my my mother
and and my brother and you know, people's emotions and

(01:06:34):
things that you know, And certainly when it came to money,
I was like, you know what, guys, you'd keep it
all because I've always kind of been there. It's not
about the money for me, you know. And I helped
whenever I could. I mean, I put the whole fucking
show together, you know, conceived of having Frank play in
the background where de Weesela was playing guitar, and you know,

(01:06:57):
so it's kind of weird when when I'm trying to
put the bizarre world of Frank's APPA together, you know,
it's it's strange to me with people who really don't
know right when they have like pushback of like, oh,
you know, like having video of Frank and playing with
the band, you know, that's a cash grab. It's the

(01:07:17):
same thing they said about Tweeesel and and me and
Gail when we first announced it, and the same thing
that they felt when there's a video of Frank in
the background with you know, uh tweel playing. He had
to defend all that stuff all day long, and then
it just you know, people can read about now who
who's the biggest person who's like, you know, the negative

(01:07:40):
about it. You know, let's get to the specific story
where he was gonna go on the road Zappa plays Appa,
and there was some disagreement between him and you. He
he said he wasn't gonna be able to use the name.
I know, I said, just pay a dollar for the license. Yeah,
a dollar. Here's the reason. Okay, when you pay a

(01:08:02):
dollar for the license, it protects the name and the entity.
So there's so much that the understanding to try to
get underneath it of how it protects the global entity
of the concept, which is it's for all of the kids, right.
That is not something that I guess, you know, that's

(01:08:24):
not his philosophy. And look, you can say like it's
just a dollar, you know, and and when you go
out and play, it protects the trademark and a license
on a global scale, Like you are the only person
you know out there in the world who if we
want to protect trademarks and all of those things, which
he was what he did when my mother was alive.

(01:08:46):
It's not like something it was. It's not like a
new concept right on every a poster, you know, for
his Apple plays app. But all of that information is there.
It's not like some like, wait, all of a sudden,
you want to do this now, it's nothing changed. In fact,
instead of paying a lot of money for that license,
it was a dollar. That's That's the thing that when

(01:09:06):
when I became a co trustee, I was like, all right,
fucking it's just a buck, you know. But okay, And
the lore is that Moon was aligned with him. What's
her problem with the with your operation of the trust?
I personally think it's just that they're not the co trustees,

(01:09:27):
you know. But but I'll say all day long, it's
I mean, it's it's a title, So like, go make
up your own title, fucking do whatever the funk you
want to do. How much of it is not a
not a lot of it actually, you know, to the
extent that things that were kind of left um uh,

(01:09:48):
like the publishing is kind of it's it's really not that.
I mean, uh, the the percentages at the end of
the day are are not even quite that anymore. That's
what I was referring to earlier to the extent that
I could make more benefit for everyone things that weren't

(01:10:09):
inside the um inside the trust. It's I'm not trying
to be vague. It's it's like the granular minutia of like, oh, fuck,
my mom didn't do this contract right, or this needs
to be done because we have a deal with this
partner or X, Y or Z. As as much as

(01:10:29):
I could be like this is the easiest way that
doesn't go against the trust, that everyone gets more, right,
every chance I've been able to do that. I've done
that every single time. Okay, Now, when we talked previously
said when you took over the trust, there really wasn't
any money coming in, not a dime. Was five million
dollars in the hole. That's not the case anymore. Okay.

(01:10:52):
The five million dollars were those payments to purchase uh
the assets. Oh there's there's a meal in different you know,
things that were uncovered in legal bills and just tons
of stuff. It's just and that's not the case since
you since you've taken over the operation, you have gotten

(01:11:12):
rid of the debt. No debt, Okay, how much income
you know, I don't need a specific dollar for you,
which wouldn't tell me. Is it enough for all four
of you to live on? Um? Yeah, considerable amount of money. No,
I think people may have a very expensive lifestyles. Uh,
you know, I don't know. I can't tell you, but yes,

(01:11:35):
to up to two people in the world, yes, you
could make a lot of money. Can you sell the assets?
And are your siblings talking about doing that or want
that to happen? Well, they wouldn't. They wouldn't be able
to do that. Um. I mean we can talk about,
you know, those kinds of things, but as the co

(01:11:57):
trustees that that's I think that that's the psychological rub,
which is, you know, at the end of the day, Um,
it doesn't take it's it's not everyone's signature on something,
you know. Um. But what I say to them, which
I've always said to them, is like, well, anything that
you want to do, right, let's do it. You know.

(01:12:18):
So like all you gonna do is literally anything that
you want to do as long as it doesn't contradict
obviously like a contract with a partner or something like
that's you know, we're not gonna be cavalier and and uh,
you know again Negate something for someone else. But we
have the best benefit. I mean, we're the we're it's
our business. So I can make the the most favorable

(01:12:43):
scenario for every single one in the family happen as
long as it's the exact same scenario for everyone. So
the benefit I get is the same benefit that Dweeesel gets,
the same benefit that Moon gets. There's not some magic.
There's not some discrepancy, right. That's that's where like I

(01:13:05):
sometimes think back and like what is the real argument
over what what was anyone getting all their you know,
pennies in a twist over when it is you know
um As an example, if you decided to make a
documentary film, right and you're the director, we don't get
your directing fee, I understanding, you know what I mean, Like,

(01:13:27):
if you're gonna do actual business, the estate gets what
the estate gets. But if you decided, like my brother
is going out there and he's you know, playing the music,
I was like paying pay a dollar to keep all
the money from the ticket sales, you know, right, Like
you know here, that's that is it? Right? That? That
was literally the deal. The discrepancy was, well, you know,

(01:13:52):
there's merch. What merch is sold at the show, and
what does everyone get? Like, well, the trust spells out
what people get that can't be changed. So there's two
ways to do it. You can either buy it all
right and then sell it whatever price you want, or
which is which is a way to do it? Like
buy it at like fucking rock bottom prices right because

(01:14:13):
it costs money to manufacture it, you know, but even
a viig that would go to the trust is paying yourself, right,
do you know what I mean? Like the madness of
all of that. So I'm like, there's this is not
some um, it's not rocket science. This this kind of
business happens all day, every day with people. You know. Yeah,

(01:14:34):
it totally makes sense. So what's your relationship with Moon
and do Easel today? It's it's better, It's it's you know,
like my sister actually emailed me today over something pretty
um horrific. Uh that was you know, I'm not gonna
get into but I'm like, oh, that's it was like
that's bananas, you know, like, you know, I let me

(01:14:56):
know if you need anything. You know, it's scary, Uh,
since you Sagan um And and my brother used out
on the road. He's you know, he he and I
took took a it was a much longer journey to
kind of get back to you know, uh a working
you know scenario. But I mean he's I don't think

(01:15:20):
he's He's like my dad. He never stops. He's always working,
he's always playing music. So even just scheduling things or
you know, we we just we have to do a
better job. I think all of us in the family.
It's it's all the communication. And I'm pretty cautious. So
when I'm like, all right, if if you you know,

(01:15:42):
and there and they want information, right, so I give
them as like it's really simple. I'm like, okay, here's
what we'll do. Anything that happens, we basically send out
like our internal like here's all the things that happened
with the business. You guys are all, you know, all
on the same page. This is all the exciting things
are happening that everyone's in to know, right, But literally
no one ever calls, no, no one ever calls, like

(01:16:04):
you give them all the information, right and like anything
you want to do right, just I've they've never called, okay,
switching gear, so what are you doing to enhance the brand?
And uh, you know, drive revenue up. Well, Um, first
and foremost, uh, the musical content, right. I think the fans,

(01:16:26):
you know, love the music, and I think I think
that people are seeing the difference between the projects that
my mother has done and then the projects that I've
put out. I think people are really enjoying them. I
brought you some, right, So how many projects if you
release since you're in control? Oh I should I should

(01:16:48):
know that, but I don't. Um, maybe twelve, you know,
but they've been pretty substantial. Um, So you're putting out
physical product the hardcore fans by it, you're doing the
show on the show. We'll get back to that. Any

(01:17:09):
other ideas that you're contemplating rev done? You know, I'm
I have been speaking about, um, you know, we can
approach to do a biopic and my mother really kind
of started that and she had some pretty amazing friends,
great like really amazing filmmakers. UM. So that's more like

(01:17:33):
a I think a waiting game because some of the
people are are extraordinary, Yeah, that have expressed interests and
that I think would be UM cool. So tell us
about the road show, the Hologram show. It's a it's
a visual smart sport of awesome bro. It is a

(01:17:56):
a unique UM visual experience. You know, for me, I
think it blurs the lines between cinema and a live concert.
Because to to do what we we did, I selected
and isolated never before heard UM recordings from a rehearsal

(01:18:18):
that my dad had in the seventies. That's kind of
like the long haired like early seventies. That's kind of
how I always see him in my mind's eye. UM.
And I was wanted to, I think, have this seventies
vibe to the show. UM. So after listening to the

(01:18:38):
audio and and some really great song choices and some
great performances. UM, then I started to work in earnest
in conceiving of the storytelling all of the visuals. So
I directed the entire show. You know, I produced the show. UM.
I'm grateful to the company Illusion because it's you know,

(01:19:00):
they put up all the money. UM, and I really
got to I had a really good time, um, you
know doing it. And and I designed the stage you
know of how it works. And some of the early
UM development I did on on some pretty fun projects
that never quite saw the light of day. But some

(01:19:23):
interesting experimentation I did at Disney I brought into Um.
You know some of the way that the the the
people that experienced the show, the holographic projection unit. And
I say holographic projection unit lightly because it's not truly
it's not a true hologram, but people people like to

(01:19:44):
describe it that way. UM, but you know, it gives
you a sense of volumetric projection. You know that that
when you have a photo real asset um, like the
photo real version of my dad, Um, you know, it
looks like he's really on stage. And the way that
the system that we deployed um sits higher than the stage.

(01:20:09):
So I created uh um monitors underneath the the the
quote unquote holographic projection system, which then elevated the band
so that it gives the appearance it's almost like having
a stage on top of the stage, so that the

(01:20:29):
band is on the same plane of existence as Frank.
And then I surround this magic box that we can have,
you know, a photo rel franc appear on stage. I
surrounded all of that with all of these other monitors, right.
So the trick of the show, and I think that

(01:20:50):
if you know, I go see a ton of concerts
and I'm I'm frustrated a lot of the time where um,
the visuals are kind of on repeat, right you might see,
you know, like I went to Guns and Roses. I
love the show, but I noticed that it's the same
skull and Roses, you know, going around a hundred and
fifty billion times. UM. So the benefit actually of the

(01:21:14):
fact that we have uh, Frank's vocals and his guitarist
to a click track meant that all of the visuals
can be done in time. So the the storytelling narrative
happens um across all of the screens, which was a
whole fucking clusterfuck to figure out how to fire the

(01:21:35):
video in sync with the band, and then because it's
a live band, making up all the you know, doing
all of the other parts, you know, other than Frank's
vocals or maybe some sound effects that we might have
had as that relate to what you see. Um. But
even Ed Man was you know, he's he made so

(01:21:55):
many great sounds that plused the experience. Um, you know,
live every night. So you go on this journey. The
the the story I wanted to tell was um from
my childhood, teenage mind. UM, my dad introduced me to
Marvel Comics. He was one of the first people to

(01:22:16):
advertise in comics for music, and or he might be
the only person who ever did it for all I know,
but um, he Jack Kirby and my dad were friends,
and I have all these awesome memories of like hanging
out with Jack fucking Kirby and my dad and listening
to Jack talk about how he thought, um, George Lucas

(01:22:38):
ripped him off with Star Wars because really Darth Vader
is Doctor Doom and kind of went through all the
other characters that were the archetypes that he thought for
Star Wars, and I was like, Oh, my god, fucking
you beads conversation ever nerded at And uh so my
dad really, my mother and father really loved Nora and Red,
you know, the silver Surfer from the Planet's end locked

(01:23:00):
um and the Power Cosmic and uh when my dad passed,
we were all together as a family, and I I
just really remembered the the Power Cosmic because the light
in the room and I just felt like, there's like
this light that left the room and escaped. And this

(01:23:22):
the narrative I've held with me since his passing is
that he kind of went full power Cosmic and went
you know, he's now touring the cosmic us, right, and
that that thing that I that I gave myself, UM,
that story that I've had in my brain for so long,
that was the starting point for for how I was

(01:23:45):
thinking about the journey that the audience would go on.
So really the opening of the show is Frank harnessing
as much of of this power to um journey back
to us for this wonderful night of music. UM and
he you know, so it's like it's it's the cosmos

(01:24:06):
and the giant star star filled Frank head, you know, massive,
and then it all coalesced into this one bright ball
of light that you know, blast the audience and when
you're you know you open your eyes again, there is
Frank holographically, you know, on stage, just fucking crushing the
solo for Cosmic Debris UM. And then I wanted to

(01:24:29):
make sure that from song to song you're never seeing
the same experience, so you just it's it's all rooted
in UM things, animation styles or films styles that my
dad loved, or conversations I had with him. All of
that became the nutrients that went into the storytelling. That

(01:24:50):
that's the that's the show I grew out of memories
and and really fond recollections, uh that I had with
my dad. And you know, he loved Terry Gilliam. He
loved the art style of you know, Monty Python. So
for Stinkfoot, you know, we we went um searching for

(01:25:10):
thousands and thousands of postcards that we could that we
chopped up to kind of get to to emulate that
style of animation. Um, and it's it's that song became
this biological attack, this evil stinkfoot, you know, force of
nature that first takes over Havana and and you know

(01:25:32):
then spreads to the rest of the world. So it's
quite a show. But in any event, you've been listening
to Ahmed Zappa. This is the source on all things
Zappa Co. Trustee of the Zappa Trust. Ahmed, You're obviously
creative man. A lot of synaps is firing. Thanks so
much for being on the podcast. Thank you, thank you
for having me. Let's do it again sometime, you bet.

(01:25:55):
Until next time. This is Bob left Slas