Alex Hodges

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
My guest today is a man who's done it all,
agent manager presently a promoter as CEO of meter Lander Concerts,
Alex Hodges. Thank you, Bob, glad to be here. Okay,
So what's the status of the concert business today? It's

(00:28):
it's robust. You always gotta look over your shoulder though
you never know when the economy or something else is
gonna fight you. But it's really strong right now. What
do you think accounts for that? I think a strong economy.
I think that people have a jingle in their pocket,
or that with job they'll spend money on entertainment. Okay.
That leads to the point where sometimes shows are put

(00:52):
on for put up for sale like over a year before.
Is that basically an economic thing? Hey, let's get the
money while they have it or what. It's a good question.
I think part of it is beat the competition, get
on sale early, uh, take money out of the market, um,
and all the other reasons. You know you're controlling somebody's money.

(01:16):
You got it in the bank. Okay. For those who
are unfamiliar, tell us more about the purview of needle
Leander Concerts for needle Lander Concerts part of a family
owned operation organization. UM. The needle Leander family started in
uh Detroit in the theater business in the early nineteen hundreds.

(01:40):
So it's family owned and over a hundred years old
and not for sale. This is so there is a
certain sense of stability. That's right. It's a good thing,
unlike the rest of corporate America. UM. In the seventies,
Jimmie needle Lander Sr. Just to be clear, they left

(02:00):
the Midwest, and they're like the number one player on Broadway, right,
don't they have the most theaters? Well, they may not
have the most theaters, but I'll say the best and
they have not so it's pretty robust. Um. Um. They
have Broadway theaters in Chicago, London, New York, l A.
And interest in San Francisco. Uh in booking arrangements for

(02:25):
Broadway and other cities like Durham, North Carolina. Uh So
the Broadway peace is the bigger family. And we say
it's really the biggest Hamilton's please in the needle Leander Theater.
Yes and many. Okay, we're going back to Jimmy in
the seventies, so, uh, Jimmy Needle Lander and his brothers.

(02:50):
There was Robert and Harry and UH and um um
who else Joey and one other wasn't in the music
business Freddie Anyway, Jimmy need Landers sr. Uh went into
New York from from Detroit years ago to start and

(03:12):
challenge the Broadway scene in the in the city. In
the seventies, had an opportunity to work with Lost in
Los Angeles with the city on reviving UH in recreating
or you know, building up the Greek Theater in l A.
Also had an opportunity to purchase the Pentageous Theater with

(03:35):
a local partner. So all of a sudden it was
do you want to go west? And I think Mr
needle Lander's friends all said, don't do it, You'll be
This's the stupidest thing, is terrible, But he'd done something
stupid before and it worked out okay. In the process,
they also built Amphitheaters, Popular Creek in Chicago, pin nob

(03:58):
Music Theater and in Clarkston, Michigan, which is Detroit, Mariweather
Post Pavilion, UH in Columbia, Maryland outside of Washington, d C.
And between there in Baltimore and others and including Pacific
Amphitheater in Los Angeles. So the outdoor music, contemporary music

(04:19):
concert UM experience UM was really led by the Netherlander family. Really,
they were the first ones who were doing it before
it became a thing with Universal Conscience Center. Yes, UM.
After they really had this equation dominated, a lot of

(04:40):
people wanted to copy it. UM m C A Universal
Concerts competed, Pace Music competed out of Texas, and so
they became more UM. There's some historic venues of course,
Red Rocks in Denver, Tanglewood in Massachusetts. Tanglewood, mass to

(05:00):
choose it's UM UM Blossom Music Theater is pretty you know,
it's been around a long time in Cleveland. Some of
them then later came under m C A Universal Watch
and some were Needle Ender. They really they really changed
the model and everybody followed. Okay, so how long have

(05:22):
you been working for need Leander. Well, I've worked for
them twice and even work at this time. I came
back to the company in April of two thousand and seven. Okay,
so what are you concentrating on now? We're concentrating on
more venues to book uh, working as a as an

(05:45):
extension of the venue ownership and management. Sometimes we don't
own it, we don't manage it. It could be municipally owned,
it could be privately owned. Uh. And if we come
in and make a dedicated emphasis on booking it with
focus trying to you know, not just do an occasional
one off, but really concentrate as an advocate for a

(06:06):
venue in the market, we found out we can change
the landscape. Give me an example. Uh, there's several and
San Jose for example, it's a civic auditorium in San Jose.
It was essentially abandoned for concerts. How many Uh what's capacity?
Yea three thousand, so you can set it up a

(06:26):
little under or slightly more. There's a balcony. It's a
civic center from the thirties and it was in the
in the seventies into the eighties. Bill Graham tried to
do concerts there. Um. This the venue needed an uplift,

(06:49):
needed a lot of uplift in anyway, the Bill Graham
decided to not go back at a point and interestingly,
a lot of the shows that he did there were
booked by me and my agent career. Uh, so it
was it was kind of a loss of an opportunity

(07:10):
to play another date in the Bay Area when he
quit doing the midsize with the smaller, smaller spaces UM.
So fast forward all these years where it was essentially abandoned,
used for a minor league basketball experiment for a little while, useful,
some graduations, used for overflow for convention city convention UH business,

(07:35):
but primarily UM just an extra room in the city,
and the city recognized they needed to maybe consider renovating
UH put together a budget, and one of the things
when we were introduced to the venue in two thousand
and eight, and probably because no one was interested them,

(08:00):
the thing that caught my attention was was that the
city had spent a million dollars on a boiler. And
I'm going like, that's the last thing on my agenda,
but it's maybe should be the first, because it represents
a real commitment to the venue, you know, the underpinnings,
the infrastructure to make it work. If they would do

(08:21):
that that's not seen and not cosmetic, maybe they would
do a good job with the other amenities that would
make it a hospitable place for rock and roll bands.
How much money, So ultimately was the city's money or
need only enters, money, cities money. I did some uh
consulting for free, also contributed to pay some consultants to

(08:45):
help advise on certain specifics. And we started actually booking
during some of the construction in two thousand and nine.
And that was probably a little premature. Okay, you're the
exclusive booker for the building. We were, and now we're
the primary booker. But there's some other promoters, international promoters

(09:09):
and specialty promoters that do some shows, so we do
almost all. And how many shows this that we do, um,
you know, fifty shows. Uh, there's twelve months a year.
And uh, when when I spoke about turning a venue around, Uh,
that takes the money, It takes some vision, it takes

(09:30):
some uh staying power. When we did our first thirteen shows,
we lost on twelve. Really, why do you think that
was new unfamiliar or the familiarity content was not good? Actually,
after we satned the deal, was the first time I
read the Yelp reviews and they were terrible. You literally

(09:52):
had to turn it around. Oh goodness. I trusted my
vision though, and uh and Jimmy Nata Lander let me
keep going, which was terrific. So now it's a robust,
and we we were just doing a great job. You
don't make money on every show, but losing on twelve
by the thirteen was not good. So now we'll make

(10:13):
money on you know, almost all. So other than showing
that the building was new and booking good talent, what
else did need to Leander do to improve the situation?
What was need to leander special sauce, Well, we made
a lot of recommendations on making the consumer like interested
and and that included such important things as um um,

(10:39):
you know, ah, outlets in the dressing room so they
could tune a guitar, areas for the crew to work
behind the staging area to star dressing rooms, not one,
renovating the upstairs dressing rooms, and then outside in the hallways.
We thought, what's gonna make this appealing? That in you,

(11:00):
having been built in the thirties had a rich history,
so we thought about um, big life size posters framed
put on the walls. The memorialized the date that the
stars have been there. And it's pretty interesting when you've
realized that the who would played their Frank Sinatra played there, uh,

(11:22):
Barbra Streischan had played there, so um um, you know
Santana and UM, so many, so many others. But it's
all a long time ago, from the thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, seventies,
eighties and stopped. So we reincarnated the history, you know,

(11:42):
with the slogan legends played here and and uh, big
huge pictures. So all the fans come and they go wow.
They stand in front of it and take each other's pictures,
along with some historic great you know, artists rolling stones.
They'll stand in front of that and take pictures, so

(12:04):
that that liven the otherwise, you know, rather dull um,
you know, concourse and what other buildings you book in um.
Another story of of turning around is much more recent.
In two thousand thirteen, a winery and pass of Robles

(12:24):
built and opened a three thousand seats amphitheater um fixed
seats two thousand, one thousand long and on the pit
you can use it open pit or you can. In
any case, it was we we were interested, but the
the deal made did not provide, in my mind, an

(12:47):
opportunity to make money. So someone else went in there
and they lost a lot of money. Why did it not?
Uh was it not going to be profitable? Well, first
of all, it's new. Second, it's local. Asian is Pastor Robots.
That's not a big population, so you have to go
for those people aunt familiar. What's the closest big city

(13:07):
to the closest small big city is Sant Louis Obispo.
And how far is it from San Louis Bispo? You know,
call it fifteen miles, but hundred and four miles to Bakersfield,
a hundred and four miles to Fresno. So you've got
this gigantics center central part of the state, creating a

(13:28):
kind of what I call a triangle almost to get
people to come. And anything new then requires like you
gotta book it. Agents have to you know, accept the vision,
take a risk. You have to, we have to pay
for it, so it's all at our dollar risk. Then
then the fans don't know of it because it's new.

(13:52):
Uh So in this case, it was good to be
sucking in and we just did a great job. Also,
it took time. So last year twenty nineteen was the
first really robust, profitable, you know, uh bottom line profitable
year in uh in in Pastor Robels at Vena roeblassed

(14:13):
Amphitheater is fantastic venue, and now we we think we're there,
recognition from the fans, recognition from agents and managers and
artists and how many shows did you do there last year? Okay, now, uh,
let's talk about the elephant in the room. Nider Lander
is big, but also there's Live Nation in a G.

(14:36):
How does need a leader fit in the landscape. Well,
you're talking about a very big elephant. Maybe too, there
is a couple of big elephants, and and uh it's interesting,
um uh those younger people in the industry who haven't

(14:56):
really experienced the days of the independent promoter in almost
every major city. In smaller cities, um, I really don't
know how the landscape has changed. So a young agent
will go, wow, I just got fifty tour offer from
Live Nation. That's uh, that's hard to compete with. And

(15:19):
and so we're trying to identifying markets and venues we
can work in and make the experience unique and then
just not lose the opportunities to the Live Nation or
the a G national tour. And there's a couple of
other things that have made it difficult, like the casino

(15:40):
business is unique and they can afford to pay artists
on another type of P and L than just looking
at ticket sales and then um um um there's fairs.
That's that's a unique animal. Not really competitive day to
day to what we do. Uh. So it's it's difficult.

(16:03):
I recommend to young agents stay an agent. Okay, since
you've done anything. You were born where I was born
in Decatur, Georgia in Emery hospital. What what was like
living in Georgia back then? Was it as southern as
we felt up north or what was going on? Of
course not? Uh, you know, major cities of major cities

(16:27):
with variety of population. Know why was deketor de Keta?
What was there that drove the Decatur. That's a good
question because I think, Uh, for years, I used to
just answer the question, where I'm from is Atlanta? So
Decatur is um, sort of a bedroom community of Atlanta,
but it was it was a county seat of De

(16:48):
Cabb County. So good schools, a lot of good schools,
amazing um high school football team, um and um. You know,
so you would ache to trolley or the bus or
an automobile to Atlanta for major shopping trips. But the
Decatur was very significantly important. And then years and years

(17:11):
and years ago, you know, train came through and stopped
and so forth. So it was it was a bustling,
bustling uh uh community. And so what'd your father do
for a living? My father, um was an executive at
a company called Pure Oil Company, and I think later

(17:32):
a lot of their stations in the Southeast and other
places gave way to Golf Oil. But he had been
he had It's interesting he had been uh uh, you know,
like oil and petroleum salesperson before the automobiles really proliferated,
and before there was a service station on every other corner.

(17:56):
Uh So when the world changed for automobiles, he was
in charge of the entire Southeast on a smaller company
called Wofford Oil, and they picked up a contract for
distribution of gas. And my father actually visited small towns
knocking on doors, meeting people at the barbershop, uh and saying,

(18:21):
you need a service station in your town. And he
did that all over the Southeast. So he was pretty
uh it was pretty interesting too to know that he
was a part of that, you know, before it was
at anything. Well, it's all so fascinating. Living in Los Angeles,
gas stations keep disappearing. I know now when you want

(18:42):
to get gas, you gotta think about where you're going.
There used to be a station on every corner. How
many kids in the family. I'm the baby of four brothers. Okay,
and the other three brothers, what are they up to?
So uh listen, I'm the baby, um four brothers. Um,

(19:03):
I'm enough junior that I got the benefit of having
a four older brothers. How what was the gap between
my ma and my closest brother. He's eleven years older
and he's still kicking. And how about your old the
oldest brother, Um turned January the third, and he's still kicking.

(19:25):
How has he got all his marbles? He does remarkably
because my girlfriends marbles. I was talking to my mother
earlier than she's She knows who I am. But it's,
you know, getting got a bad it's it's it's you know,
to see the aging. You know, we have a mother
in law who's going through some issues. And but my
brothers did well. My old my second oldest brother did

(19:49):
nine and he was exhausted, really after being a caregiver
for his wife who had Alzheimer's. That's a tough one.
It's a long goodbye. And your other brother one was
a doctor. He was in the navy, you know, during
the World War Two. He was in the peace building

(20:11):
part of the navy. Uh as a Navy doctor stationed
in Japan. After the war was over, and he moved
around a lot. Uh then he settled in North Georgia,
uh as a you know, a country or a mountain doctor.
Now are you close with your brothers and real close? Okay,

(20:33):
what lessons did you learn from them? I don't have
any brothers, so being the youngest at having three older
brothers interesting. I had to speak at the brother who died.
I had to speak at his service, and at first
I couldn't think of a story. I mean, my mind
went blank. And uh, you know, so I wrote notes
on three by five cards in my practice in front

(20:56):
of my wife, and she said, very nice, but anybody
could say those generality these and and she was right.
She said, they need people need to hear some stories
that they have forgotten or never heard. And so um
I did it. I found found a way and it
triggered something that I started jotting down any story that

(21:18):
I had heard from the older brothers. And one of
the things that my brothers carried over from my father
and my mother is when you're gonna do something, do
it right. Just do it right. That's the big message.
Don't shortcut it. Okay, So what kind of kid are you?
In school? Popular? Reasonably? I was a president of the
Hot Rods Club. What was that like? Well, you know,

(21:42):
we uh we saw these uh thirty nine Ford coups
and we saw these and they had passed on and
we saw that people some race car guys. We're putting uh,
you know, chevallet motors in them, and uh, you know,
it was just kind of a cool thing. I think
drag racing had its moment at in in the in

(22:04):
the fifties, right in in early sixties maybe, so maybe
my parents kind of backed and gave us a garage
to work in. And I created at school a hot
rock club called the Idlers, and we had we took minutes,
we had rules, we had meetings and votes and all
kinds of stuff. And it was part of some of

(22:27):
the other experiences in school from my brothers and hearing
that they were in in uh you know, different classes
and clubs and so forth. So it's just a matter
of participation. And uh, I did build a hot rod. Okay,
tell me about your hot right. I belt it was uh,
no fenders, uh thirty four ford uh uh convertible H

(22:51):
might have been a Cooper originally, but no top when
I got it, and I put in a two eighty
three uh chevallet V eight engine to four barrel carburetors,
and I got it going where it was really drivable
and uh and and really pretty awesome and time around
out I went to college and uh so I went

(23:14):
to Mercery University. But what happened to the well, that's
that's part of it. What a parents do when kids
go to they sell something. So my hot rod was
put up for sale by my father, and a guy
came and got it. Our father wanted his garage back,
all right, I don't blame him. Um so, uh. The

(23:35):
fellow that bought it raced it and had race it.
He raced it and he brought to the house right
the door bell knocked on the door, met my father
and said your son might be happy to know, and
showed him a trophield winning a quarter track, you know. Right,
so that was cool. I just kind of felt good.

(23:56):
So you can do cars are all computer righted now?
But only speaking. You're completely familiar with how cars are.
That's why I have in truck was a Mustang engine
in it. How did you put the engine in? Now? Okay?
How often do you drive that? Once a week? Really?
What's that like? This is cool? You know, it looks,

(24:17):
it looks it's shiny, and it's black and it you know,
it looks pretty interesting. Cool and the big big white
walls and uh, nobody thinks that they think they don't
want to be behind me because I'll be real slow
and then I'm in front of everybody. And then but
that has pneumatic breaks. You have to stand on the

(24:38):
brakes right to stop it. Yesterday, We're pretty good, okay,
and you can down down shift. How many years? Three? Okay?
So Mercer College? What's that like? Well, Mercer University and
how I ended up deciding to go. There was one
brother went to Emory, one brother went to the University

(24:58):
of Georgia, one brother went to Georgia Tech. And in
Georgia there was four kind of major educational institutions there.
There's now more who have grown in their statue. But
that left Mercer and I applied for uh to Mercer,
I applied I made one application to one school. Uh.
Those days were different. Now you gotta kinda make, you know,

(25:21):
twenty applications. Anyway, I was, I learned what the word
tentative meant. So I got accepted. But the word tentative
was in this sentence, and I'm going, I really wish
I knew for sure. Uh. Anyway, I got into mercer
and it was it was a good experience and that
that uh Uh. Interestingly, this plays into my my brother's

(25:45):
at war uniform and uh in World War two, uh,
closest brother uniform and he was he got a bronze
bronze star for building schools in South Korea as they
were cleaning minds up, you know, and then building schools
and so uh, you know. And I'd worn uniform in
RTC in high school. I didn't want to do it again.

(26:07):
So first day of college, I get a letter from
high school buddy who had gone into the Marine Corps.
He wrote and said, dropped some class and go sign
up for r OTC. You do not want to be
an enlisted man in the service. And I did it.
So I wore a uniform in college one day that week,

(26:30):
and um, so you graduated, was there any war going
on when you graduated. Not really, I kind of missed.
I kind of I went. I guess I'm you know,
UH participated when during during the Cold War, mainly I
went to Turkey. I was near in Stanbull and that
was fun um almost two years, not quiet. And then
I came to California because everybody wants to go to California,

(26:51):
of course, and I got my orders for California to
Fort Irwin, and I don't know if you know where
it was. I didn't either, so so I looked it up.
Slap dab in the middle of the Mojave Desert. That's
a long beach. Okay. So in the old days, if

(27:12):
you were in r OTC okay, So then you had
to go in the army for two years after exactly, okay.
And that was the Army, not the Marine. I was
a finance officer in head of finance department. So I
had a nice office and you know, it's pretty pretty
pretty neat job. And what did you study at Mercer? Uh? Economics,

(27:34):
not just business vantage but economics, and what was the
plate history? Economics? History was my mind or the plan
was to go to law school, and uh, I did
for a little while. So really I didn't know that,
but I I you know, I was kind of schooled
out in a while. Oh man. I went to law school,
but I think at least two years off. It just
I didn't take any time off. And I also went

(27:57):
to summer school a lot, and I worked you know,
one or two jobs during summer school and all. And
I booked bands in that period too. In college. But
law school, I just was, I guess schooled out. So
I went to the dean and said I want to
drop out and he should stick out the quarter of
the semester. He said, you're doing better than you think
you are, because I was, you know, dean student all

(28:21):
the time and an undergraduate. H This was where the
law school, it was part of Mercer Walter F. George
School of Law, Mercer of School of Law. And uh
so I said, you know, i'll I'll uh good. He said,
you can always come back, but finish your finish this
great you know this period. Uh And I got okay marks,

(28:42):
you know, they were okay. It's not good enough for me,
but it was it was, you know, never any thought
about going back, of course, really, of course, but my
brothers told me something you're gonna make officers pay, You're
not gonna go back to school. How good was officers pay?

(29:04):
Pretty good when you've been selling shoes on Friday night
and Saturday afternoon for you know. Okay, So tell me
about big book and bands in college. I did get
started in that. Well, you know, I love music, popular music,
and I always always had a propensity to listen to
something that necessarily my older brothers didn't listen to or

(29:24):
parents didn't listen to. So like a lot of kids,
you know, you get your own bands, your own music,
and you And when I went off to college, you know,
I had my own music and and uh, but I
also something that plays a part, I think in my
overall career. I was exposed to an older generation of

(29:45):
music growing up and from my mother and my brother,
so already I was sore being various, you know, different
decades of music, not just mine but others, and uh,
and that and that's given me, uh, I think maybe
a pretty pretty good at appreciation of the of music
through the through the years. But anyway, I was um

(30:10):
a friend of mine, we were turned fraternity brothers find
alta Thedo, uh Phil Walden and uh Phil. Phil was
a fraternity brother, Yes, while you were there, right, we
were five alta thedo and uh, and he was president
of the other class. I joined late. I didn't join
the fraternity of the first couple of years of of

(30:31):
mercer Um. But I was helping all of these guys.
And I had buddies that were five aults, including Phil,
and some of them I was helping study, and some
of them I was taking their money because I could
type and I was typing. So in any case, one
day after a history class, I'm standing in the hallway

(30:55):
and phills down the hall after another class and I
went down to the end of the hall and I
and I always remember this, uh, this conversation. Um. He
smoked cigarettes. I didn't, but in those days you weren't
bothered by people's cigarettes anywhere because everybody did. Um. But

(31:15):
he was lighting a cigarette and he had a little matchbook.
And you know, you always look to see if it's from,
you know, a vacation in Miami, or you know something
on the massment or restaurant. And uh, there's an odd logo.
I said, what's that logo? He said, it's a it's
a designed a p W for Phil Walden and I'm

(31:38):
gonna book bands full time after classes and quit my
cousin's store. I'll go that's interesting, pretty pretty cool, right,
So chit chat right before class he said, when do
you get out of school? He said, I'm getting I'm
going to take an office over w IRBB Radio. And

(31:59):
I knew of that was because it was across the
street from an apartment complex that I had become the
resident manager on before I moved to another location, another apartment.
Where is Mercer Mercers in Making Maker, Georgia, right in

(32:20):
the center of the state and small still small, still small,
Making or Mercer Mercer is bigger than it was, Making
is still small. So what was Making like when you
were going to college? Probably a ninety thousand people and uh,
you know, quite kind of quiet. Uh uh you know,

(32:41):
but it was the county seat to a bib county,
you know, so it was just h you know, just
to kind of a you know, hallmark, small town little
college college. Interestingly, Mercy Makon now so had the first,
I think the first chartered woman's college in the world,
Westleyan really and making and uh rich rich history for

(33:05):
for westleyn in particular, and also for mercer. Um, so
I'm standing wait, wait, wait, a couple of questions. How
far as mercer from Atlanta nine emails? Okay, how did
you meet Phil Walton? Never mind this episode with promotion,
you know, in classes, hanging out talking about music. Was
he a charismatic guy? He was? He was? And then

(33:28):
for the fraternity he was, he was president and he
was pretty charismatic and an interesting guy. Um, a lot
of self confidence and uh, I don't know, we've struck up.
So he said, a kins right, and he said, okay,
when when do you classes that? What are you doing?

(33:48):
And I said, you know whatever time. He says, well,
I get out an hour earlier. And I have collected.
I've gone to the libraries and written down the addresses
of every school, every unity, every entertainment committee, and more
from the library, from the phone books that are in

(34:08):
the libraries. And he says, so I'm writing letters about
the bands. I'm going to book and I've got these
local musicians and they have names because they're all the bands.
You know, you can have a garage, man, you've got
to give it a name. So everybody had names of bands,
and they could also play anybody's music so the names

(34:29):
could change. Um in any case, Uh, he said, I
can't type, and I got to send these letters out.
And all the girls at the school want to come
down and do this. Uh, they're doing their thing. And
uh so instead of whatever I was getting for the

(34:49):
type in term papers, now I'm going to get something
for typing letters about bands. So Phil would write them
on this cheapest yellow pay people you could buy, and
I'd come down and uh type them and answer the
one phone. You know, actually we had I think two

(35:10):
phones and two numbers. There's no rolling over a conference calling.
It was just two numbers. And uh. He had bought
an old military desk and a couple of them, and
I put Uh. I went and bought flat doors from
you know, Mountford doing yourself for the lumber company. And
I've varnished them and painted them and stained them. And

(35:33):
so we had two executive desks. So how long after
you started typing did he actually book a band? Well,
first I told I told Phil, when you go to lunch,
I'll answer the phone, but I'm not going to try
to book a band. And I have, you know, over
the years, mentoring some people in the business and not
everybody thinks that they can could sell and sell it. Um.

(35:59):
And I didn't think I could sell ladies shoes. I
could sell door to door. I could sell if I
could see somebody. But I didn't think I could sell
by listening to somebody and talking to them on the phone.
And then one day Phil had gone to pick up
some lunch and sandwiches for us, and I'm answering the

(36:20):
phone and they asked me about a band. And I've
been typing all the letters and I knew all the musicians,
and uh so I sell some guys, uh, some school
or band, and I'm going, gee, was that worked? And
you learned to listen, you know. I learned to listen

(36:40):
to my brothers and my mother learned a lot of
basic good life things. And I was always observing, you know,
my uncle and my brothers and other people in the school.
I had decided to be a good student, not a
bad one. So uh. Also my parents were helping. They
would pay for the books and tuition I paid for

(37:01):
over my my living in school. Um. The the idea
to sell on the telephone was really foreign. But you
learn how that you don't have to listen to yourself.
You learn you have to listen to the guy on
the other phone, on the other side of the phone
that you can't see, so you get no body language

(37:24):
except from voice. And it's really fascinating too to allow
void to be filled by one of the two of
us and find out the interest and somebody's going to
ask a question. I'm gonna just talk my head off

(37:44):
about the musicianship, wrong move. You talk a little bit
and then and then if the person on the other
end of the phone is interested, they'll ask a question
and that and they will create, you know, a good
exchange dialogue and you can almost vision your lies the
person on the other side of the phone. And I
think we missed that today with texting and emails to

(38:08):
to work through a problem on a band and routing
and so forth. It's just so much better if you're
talking on the phone. But that's but today, as another story,
how important was it to not talk business on the phone,
like talk about sports of the weather to try to
establish a rapport. Well, since the phones were a little

(38:31):
bit more expensive by the clock, Um, there was a
certain sense of efficiency that was needed. Um, you might
ask a question, you might say something, but that student
union person or or or fraternity person was really calling
with a with a purpose, so you had to stay
and you didn't didn't have that kind of of relationship

(38:53):
with them. Yet you might develop it and then you
would ask about the team of the football team at
that university and you have, but that was after you've
done business more than once. Really they were interested in
and uh, and there was a lot of interest I
think buying a band, but buying a band for the
Southern school of buying a band since somebody that was

(39:16):
in New York City, I mean, they didn't want to
buy from New York City. I think they felt like
they always had to until we started, and you had
no competition other than New York City. There was a
guy in uh in South Carolina who was booking cover
bands and and he was pretty successful with it. But

(39:38):
we thought we could do it differently more novel have
musicians around Macon who were really good and um, and
we did it. Uh, we weren't. We weren't in the
beach music. We were into what you would know as
rhythm and blues. Okay, but you're doing that, but then
you ultimately go into the army. Yeah, well, I'll tell you.

(40:02):
It was the army was good in several ways. How
did you tell Phil, Hey, I'm gonna go well, oh, interestingly,
Phil went the army first. So I got a letter
where Phil saying, you know, uh, in the Phil's Allan
Allan Walden, Alan Walden, Phil's younger brother came in to help.

(40:23):
And Phil's father Um retired from the cousins or whoever
owned the clothing store or a hat store, and uh,
he came in sometimes to help, and he established Alan.
Phil myself and C. B. Walden had a relationship with

(40:44):
an up and coming singer named Otis fretting. Okay, let's
slow down, but let me go back to Phil good
in the service a second. So here's Phil in the service.
He had a better gig than I did because he
was putting bands together in Europe. But I was a
fun dance guy when I went in. Anyway, Phils in Europe,

(41:06):
and the letters in the mail or all of his
visions back and forth letters, A few calls but not
many to uh, you know, enhance the office or book
band or sign another band, and all of a sudden
things were more vibrant. Then he came back, but I

(41:27):
was transitioning to go in and we had you know,
i'll call it ten minutes of overlap. But and I was,
I was in the service. A considerable part of my
two years was when was when UH Phil had been back.
So Alan and myself book bands and Phil was in
the service, and Alan really carried carry the torch well

(41:52):
because then I had to go in the service and
I needed some money aside, a couple of other jobs
in addition, but hard to pay commissions at that level.
And then he just got better and it got a
little bit better. Then all of a sudden, I'm on
active duty and I'm shipped off to UH. I went

(42:12):
for Ben Harrison in Indiana Indian Indianapolis, Indiana was first
and my wasn' a very good student in finance class.
They called me lieutenant sleepy um. But uh so they
sent me to the one of the more remote places
outside of Turkey. And the guy that I replaced, who

(42:33):
was going to teach me everything, had already been gone
for two weeks. So here I'm a lieutenant, I'm ahead
of a finance unit. I've got five people who work
for me, and I know nothing. And it was more
interesting than that because this particular unit part of NATO.
I guess anyway, um tooth log Turkish US logistics. Wow.

(42:58):
I reported Air Force and I reported the Army. But
I was an Army officer. The cool thing about that
I got to go to meetings in Heidelberg and I
got to go to meetings in Athens, Greece. So that
was it was pretty cool yet pretty large. Okay, yeah,
but Phil was back and when I was in the service,

(43:19):
he and his brother would send me albums and they
were signing bands, and Ortis Redding was becoming a star.
I mean a really just sit down for a second. One.
When you're in the Army, do you think when you're done,
you're gonna go back to work with these characters? That
was Phil's idea while he was in the service, and

(43:40):
he and I still have the letter that he wrote
with that vision. Did I believe in it? No? I
thought I'd go back to law school. Okay, was making
known as a musicians hangout, musicians town. No, so how
did you meet Otis Redding? And with one exception, a
little Richard to come from the All right, but when

(44:01):
you look at Georgia and Racharles had come from Albany. Uh,
James Brown was in augusta little Richard had been in
making and he moved to California, and then this uh
young artist was starting to take off. And what it
took was a combination of vision and energy from some

(44:23):
young guys and a similarly aged young musician, uh who
were serious about his career and could envision getting bigger
whatever that might mean. Uh. So that's Otis and Phil
and me and Allen. Okay, so Otis was from making

(44:46):
Yes and maybe Hawkinsville right out and when you signed him,
what was his level of reach? Well when when Philing
known him even before my going in and open letters.
So Otis was sort of the catalyst for a lot
of the musicians because it's such a good singer. But

(45:06):
Phil had a lot of confidence in the career of
a of another musician, a left handed guitar player named
Johnny Jenkins who never really made it right became a
big studio musician. Not so much, not so much. Why
do you think Johnny Jenkins didn't make it? I think
it was had to do with being in the cups, uh,

(45:29):
which means drinking, and he just he was an emotional guy.
He was a great guy. Um, you know, he wasn't
a you know, you know, like a irresponsible oddeball. But
he but he couldn't. He didn't have quite the drive
of the discipline in the in the in the self

(45:50):
discipline that you need to have. Okay, so you're in
the army. He's selling sending you these records. He's sending
you what kind of record? Well, it's pretty cool because
because the adjutant of my post it told me that,
you know, the commander wouldn't let you go out on
the sign out on the weekends because we were kind

(46:12):
of remote. And uh, he picked me up in a
personal car for door chevallet and I said, how you
get a personal car? Overefe says, I'll tell you all
about that later. And you can fill out papers and
have a car shipped over and then you sell it
and then it becomes a taxi cab. But anyway, I
looked over in the back seat. I was telling me,

(46:34):
uh that I was going to just be in my
in my quarters and in my room for the next
year and a half. And I'm and I'm going like, wow,
you got a Ray Charles album on the back seat
of your car. You know he's from Georgia. Even though
he's living in California. Ray Charles is awesome. He says, oh,

(46:56):
how I made up? You know, told him I was
story and I said it was a young musician that
uh is uh it's taken hold and uh as these
arms of mine and pain in my heart. I've already
been out and had some traction said you ever heard
of votice reading? And I don't. I don't remember his answer,

(47:18):
but it started a friendship between me and this captain.
So here, I'm a young, you know, white lieutenant, and
he's an African American captain from Los Angeles, and we're
stationed in the middle of nowhere in Turkey, but it's
not the middle of nowhere because we're only twenty eight
miles from Misson Bulls. Okay. He ultimately let you out

(47:39):
on the weekends, he and he would tell the commander
only Lieutenant Hodges has requested. So we would go to
embassy parties and I would take the albums Sam and
Dave and all of these really cool albums from Stacks
Records that Phil would send me. And I take these

(48:00):
records and you put them on and they were vinyl,
and uh, you know, it was just like a cool
it was a cool deal, um and fun and you
know some histon bullism metropolis and attracts a lot of
interesting people, and you know, an author like James Baldwin
would be at one and just different, different people and
of course girls too, and it was and it was,

(48:23):
it was cool. So I had this outlet, and I
had a pal who had you know, he was in
the in the chain of command. It was, it was.
It was a good deal, and I had a good staff,
and I did get my four door chevallet over there,
so it was great. And then I put in for
change to orders to go to California, and I asked

(48:45):
for Presidio San Francisco Ford order up that way, uh,
because you know, young kid growing up in Georgia wants
to come to California. Of course. So anyway, I got orders,
and I asked somebody, you know, Ford Irwin, and when

(49:05):
officer said, uh, I was stationed there. Let me tell
you the good and the bad, he said, And then
he said here's the bad. I said, you never finished
the good, he said, he said, there isn't it. But
it was okay. Actually I had a good time. I
replaced a major in his position, took over a failing
finance office passed. UH. Mustard got the civilian troops and

(49:28):
the civilian employees in line. UH taught them what they're
supposed to know that I didn't know by reading and
talking to them. And then the military guys had a
good relationship with with every level. UH, and I was
I was now a first lieutenant, had replaced a major,

(49:50):
and UM it was. It was pretty cool. So I'd
come to UH. I'd come into Los Angeles almost every
week INN. But there was one weekend when I said
I was going to go to Los Angeles and the
commander had sent somebody to tell me. I was invited
to the Officers Club for New Year's Day for a

(50:12):
special brunch. And I announced that I was going to
be in Los Angeles on New Year's even I wouldn't
be able to make it. And the gentleman said, have
you ever heard of command performance? And I go, that
means I have to And he said you have dressed blues,
don't you? And that was the dress blue uniform and

(50:34):
so forth. So I don't remember if I went to
l A and then made it, but I did make it. UH.
Maybe I canceled LA. I can't imagine at that age
I would have canceled l a trip um but it was.
It was good and uh even even uh, I think
I think a part I was I'm kind of missing

(50:57):
here is that when I was transitioning from Turkey and
visiting home in Georgia and family filling and Alan asked
me to drop down to making and uh, you know,
ninety miles getting the car, drive down seeing Uncle, see
Phil and Allen, and everybody's driving these brand new Thunderbirds

(51:20):
and cool cars, and I'm going, what in the world.
They said, you you just can't. You had to come
see it, and that's what they had said, You've got
to drive down here and see it. And it's just wow.
They had bought an office building which had been a
chicken cleaning and selling. You know, the basement was feathers

(51:44):
and but they'd already cleaned it up and it was
a gorgeous two story basement story in one street level
offices for Otis, for Phil, for Alan, uh, for another
booker and is like, wow, So here's your salary when
you get out, and you'll go pick out the best

(52:06):
furniture at the furniture store and you'll have enough money
about a new car, and when do you get out
of the service. So probably when I finally got out
of the service, I just probably went home for a
week and then down to making. And that was what

(52:28):
that was. What year in in sixty seven? Sixty seven? Okay,
so spring, spring, late winter and spring sixty and so
what's going on there at Phil Walden making in sixty seven? Uh,
otis was just getting bigger about a minute. Um, Sam

(52:49):
and Dave had been signed, Eddie Floyd was the song
knock on Wood had been signed, Percy Sledge was signed
out of Alabama, and uh with the best version of
When a Man Loves a Woman? Uh. Great, And I
had a conversation with Michael Bolton one night about about

(53:11):
Percy and that song. It was just you know, it
was just nice. And Uh anyway, um brother artists. Otis
had discovered a young singer I think maybe out of
Baltimore area, UH named Arthur Connolly, and Otis wrote sweet
soul music for him. So we had a hit. And

(53:34):
Phil and Phil had struck up a relationship with Clarence Carter.
Uh he had a number one hit. Funny back then
sometimes the number one hit was the B side. Now
they quit doing that A side and B side, And
it's probably a mistake because several number one hits were
not intended back in those days. So it was pretty cool. Anyway,

(54:00):
things were rolling, they were really really uh great interesting
and uh so I didn't go back to Mercer law school.
And you're working there, and what do you You're selling
bands at that point, you're involved in management. What are
you doing out phil as a manager? Uh? With a

(54:21):
dream of having a label and filling and filling. Otis
had a publishing together and and I was a book
or an agent. No, that was it, you know, at
a job and a good job and paying more than
an army and so uh, Otis dies, what is what's

(54:41):
that like? Well, the weekend of that trip, I had
booked the tour. Uh it was a weekend to what
was at this moment Otis was doing uh you know,
like a few dates and then taking them, you know,
a week off or something. And I was supposed to
go with him on Friday, and and I had some

(55:04):
trouble on a tour. I had my bagpacked at the office.
He came into the office, he said, are you ready
to go? And I said, I can't. I got some Uh,
I just got work to do and uh, um, solving
a routing problem or something with a promoter or a
band or I don't even have any idea what it was,
but you know, duty calls and uh Otis said, uh, uh,

(55:28):
I'll see you. He had to go to Memphis and
doing a little bit more overdubbing, and he said, I'll
see you Monday and next weekend we'll take the plane
go to the Bahamas. And Sunday night, I'm in my apartment.
I got the call asking what city Otis was to
be in, and they wanted some extra verification of you

(55:53):
know that it was this plane that I crashed, and
like Manona, Wisconsin, there you go. I stayed on for
a while. Sam and Dave were hot. But the spirit,
the mood, the spirit, energy, the emotional content inside you

(56:16):
changed and I wouldn't got a suit and tie job,
which was what helping some people run for election in
the South. Um, and uh yeah, I'll moved to Atlanta
and uh you know it was you know, interesting stuff, um,

(56:39):
closer to the family. Um. And then Phil and I
would keep in touch and go to lunch on occasion
on a Saturday in Atlanta, he started dating a girl
in Atlanta, and fast forward about two years. He brought
me uh ascetate, which is uh, you know, pressing test

(57:05):
pressing for an album, white label, Nope, no art, see
go home, listen to this. If you like it, we'll
go see the band play tomorrow night. So I didn't
go out that night and listen or maybe out of
day or something. I don't know, but I listened to
the album like all day and all day Sunday and
uh and uh. It was first album of the Owner

(57:29):
Brothers band. So I said, I can be back in
making on such and such a day. You know. I
was like, crazy, how do you make a decision like
that off of one album? That's because you're in your
twenties different and also you could live on a lot

(57:53):
less money today people don't take those risks. They don't.
So you go to work with the Almond Brothers. Now
he's got his evil Capricorn through Atlantic Records, and what
are you doing? Well? Interesting on Capricorn, uh and Atlantic
Records in the label and the Almond Brothers. It had

(58:14):
gone back. It really still had an association with Muscle
shoals and and not really stacked, but Atlantic and Jerry
Wexler had said to feel, you know, I want to
introduce you to Dwayne Alman. And then Dwayne wanted to
do a band. They had had had bands, the guys

(58:34):
that had some bands before and playing in Florida in
different places and and uh but nothing really really stuck.
And Dwayne was having this great experience and and enhanced reputation,
you know from his studio work pretty amazing, and uh
so then they put together the Almer Brothers band. I

(58:55):
think in originally they thought Dwayne could sing, but but
he could, saying they needed they needed his brother. Um
so I was. I went down as a part owner
of an old reincarnated but therefore a new agency and
came up with a new name and called it Paragon Agency.

(59:20):
And uh uh still had an R and B roster
still in Percy Sledge, I think Arthur Connelly, um Clarence
Carter and Candy State and signed Tyrone Davis and had
Joe Simon. And that's interesting because I put Joe Simon

(59:41):
out on the road room several bookings and a week
later he and his brother walked in my office with
a with uh you know, like like eight foot by
five ft you know, big plowwood looking your board. Upon

(01:00:02):
the board was a fixed a map. It was the
United States largest United States highway map I've seen maybe
since the you know, I don't know, but huge map.
And they said this is for you because I had
stretched the driving between two gigs a little too far.

(01:00:25):
They made it, but they didn't want to do it again.
Routing is an art at several levels, and uh, and
that was good. I knew it, but I probably knew
I was pushing the envelope and they accepted it. So
in the band that, you know, and the artist accepts it,
you go. They accepted it. But it wasn't a time
to argue about that. They didn't even complain. They brought

(01:00:47):
me a map. So how long are you at the
Paragraph Agency? Well, it was as as I said, it
was kind of the old agency because interestingly, uh Otis
Redding's brother had, after Otis died, had joined to be

(01:01:13):
an agent. And that was waldin artist's promotions. But when
I came back in seventy and we you know, it
took over, took some ownership and renamed it and you know,
mapped down a new mission, uh, naming it Paragon. That
would have been in uh in the spring of seventy

(01:01:35):
and um we we found that some musicians were just
getting in a van and coming to making because they
wanted an opportunity to record. Even though there had been
muscle shows and so forth. This was looked upon as
new and fresh to a lot of young, aspiring, aspiring

(01:01:59):
rock bands. Um so there was a studio in addition, Yeah,
so Phil and Frank Finter had opened the studio of
Capricorn Records, and so what Willie, for example, drove over
from Alabama and other bands and musicians started accumulating. Dwayne

(01:02:20):
had his reputation, and then the Allman Brothers first album
came out. But even as it's almost simultaneously, all of
these things were happening, and musicians showing up, and even
parents coming in and bringing their young young musicians down.
And one of the things I noticed in in in

(01:02:41):
all of those uh you know, uh, aspiration from the
young musicians, the better the presentation from them and their
brother or manager or parents was the worst of music
was I find the same thing the people who said
to the really long emails are terrible in real life people,

(01:03:03):
is like one sentence. In real life you could talk
for hours. The best musicians didn't have the greatest presentation,
and it was interesting. And then so Capricorn was signing bands.
I was listening to them and listening to the demos
and listening to the product and making some you know,
some subjective judgment on whether they could be good. Then

(01:03:27):
I would go see him in the club, and then
that would add to my sense of confidence that they
could make it. I found two. It's like oversimplification, but
sometimes you look at a band play and you see
two bands, but only one on stage a little bit slower.
What are we saying? So? And that's why this is

(01:03:48):
a This is isn't as complicated as it sounds. You
see a band and it doesn't work, but they're all good,
so you're just going like, wow, it doesn't work. They
don't jell together. I don't seem they have a sense
of who they are as a band. So maybe one

(01:04:08):
of the musicians will end up being the road manager
and they'll reform, and sometimes they'll just split up. But
you have to you can you can sense it whether
they have the right commitment and whether they have the
right chemistry. And I'll get I'll tell you this. It
was an interesting thing. I don't remember this very often

(01:04:30):
or or say it, but I'm sitting with Phil one
day in his office and Dwayne had been in Florida. Um,
but Eric Clapton on the session for Layla and uh
ah he came in and uh. He started talking about

(01:04:51):
musicians and showing us a couple of snapshots he had
had one I think with it with Eric and uh
and spoke about James Taylor and his complexity of his
music and the beauty of it, which which was just
a great conversation. You talk about his band and that

(01:05:12):
they were a little tired, have to come off the
road baby pretty soon for a couple of weeks and
to get some rest and um, and another musician came
in and was struggling in another band, and uh, the

(01:05:34):
side conversation was Dwayne said to the other guy, he said,
keep playing. If you play long enough, you'll find the
guys you're supposed to play with. Wow. Powerful, and that
explains my you know, simple oversimplification and sounds complex of

(01:05:57):
see a band playing on stage and there and they're green,
and you just sent that they're all good. They should
probably find other guys to play with. And uh. Anyway,
we you know, the Marshall Tucker Band came through Macon.

(01:06:18):
Phil and Frank Finner were considering offers to sell some
masters in bands before the big push would be would come,
and I remember saying, uh, uh, this song, can't you
see for Marshall Tucker Man is gonna be a live
performance anthem. Whether you make it a hit or whether

(01:06:40):
or not. I think that that song alone and the
songwriting of toy carwell you you gotta keep this band, um,
you know. And the rest is known of course, but
you know, it's just just a great time. What Willie
came played in a tent uh at Alex Cooley's Atlanta

(01:07:04):
Pop Festival and on the night before and I don't
know if they had a spot on the stage during
the festival, but I saw them entertaining all of the workers,
uh you know, for the food break and stuff on
the night before to set up, and I thought this
one's pretty interesting. And uh so, you know, uh, Phil

(01:07:30):
and Frank signed wet Willie ban um, you know, just
a lot of interesting stuff. And Chuck Levell, who I
think everybody knows from from his keyboard work with the
Armer Brothers and also currently and for many many years
now with the Rolling Stones, he had a band and
he had come over and uh, you know it was

(01:07:52):
just his talent was remarkable. His first band with Capricorn
didn't didn't go anywhere. He laughs about it, but it
uh uh you know they were probably better than you think.
But again it did it didn't work, but but he
was so amazing that uh, you know, what a what
a great guy and what a great career. So there's

(01:08:13):
so many others and we kept the R and B roster,
and I kept signing people and uh and Los Angeles
resident singer songwriter uh named Bobby Walmac had recorded in
uh in Alabama. Um, and I guess it must have shows,
I think and uh probably with Rick Holds, guy's gonna

(01:08:36):
look all that stuff up. UM. So Bobby, we invited
or found a way to invite Bobby Warmack over to
Los Angeles, I mean over to excuse me over to
making and uh and I told him I could put
a band behind him and he wouldn't have to worry
about being the you know, the the the band wouldn't

(01:09:00):
have to worry about the band because he'd been in
bands and he with his brother and the Valentinos and
Cleveland and and what a remarkable history. And Bobby and
I struck up a friendship and I put some regional
bands with Independent on where I was going to book him,
and then he got the Santana tour one year and
that was great. But he had some uh, some great,

(01:09:24):
great recordings, you know. Part of part of that was
that we I'd always felt from the early days that
if you have uh, if you're having success, you want
to keep it and be you gotta look for maybe

(01:09:45):
the next challenge to go along with it. And uh,
and that's just been uh, if you sit on status quote,
it's not so good. And that goes to the band,
the songwriter, the publisher, and for a an agent. And
so Paragon had a good basically a ten year run. Uh.

(01:10:07):
And then something happened and I made a decision to
start a new agency in uh night UH and I
named it uh Empire Agency and no particular reason, but
Atlanta was the uh uh kind of empire city of

(01:10:28):
the South. And but I started it in making out
of my home. Um and Okay, what what actually happened?
Why did you break away? They'll break away from was
happening organically? Not any cause or intent on my part.

(01:10:50):
I would have been happy if we had had a
twenty year career together, you know, with with Phil or
Capricorn Paragon Agency. In fact, we should have or it
should have been a thirty years um. But things occur,
driven sometimes by success and not opening your mind up

(01:11:11):
to new ideas and music. And I think Phil had
a moment of getting stale, and he had a moment
of of the excesses of success taking over. So lo
and behold. I get a phone call from an accountant saying,

(01:11:31):
better bring your own accountant in. I got you. That
pretty much tells the story. So you're you're in Atlanta
with the Empire. So who your acts? Then? So when
I started in, I signed UMU, the all my brothers,

(01:11:52):
mand the Charlie daniels Man who had been my client before,
UM Atlanta Rhythm Section, a member of the Outlaws for
a little while, and U UM whom I missing, you know,
maybe one more band. But we we started small and

(01:12:14):
started out of my house in Bcon and a young
woman who had been working at Capricorn or Phil Wallons
management company was out of a job, and I thought
she was an amazing talent and she came over to
help me with some books as I was closing up
the Paragon days. And her name was Carol Kensel. So

(01:12:40):
Carol uh came in to work in my living room
and I worked in the four year or vice versa,
and my secretary came and worked in the hallway, and
my son sat on the steps and tried to mimic us,
and my wife made lunch. And that started Empire Agency

(01:13:03):
and the first big tour I book. Then Charlie Daniels
broke his arm on his farm and I had to
cancel the whole thing. Now here we're starting a new company,
and uh, you know, it's like how do you how
do you you know, get by? And all my brothers
were known for their taking a hiatus frequently, often broke

(01:13:25):
up and come back and so forth. They changed managers UM,
so they you know, you know, the the Capricorn Records
was going bankrupt or did go bankrupt. I started over

(01:13:45):
and it was it was fun again. But I signed
another artist a couple of years into Empire UM who
was working clubs, nothing bigger than clubs. And a friend
of mine said, come see this band, and I sent
it young guy. I had hired named named Rick Alter.

(01:14:13):
I sent him to Texas to see a young UH
musician who was no longer a baby, but he was
still pretty young, named Stevie Ray Vaughan. And Rick came
back and said, Alex, this this is for you. Ge
just felt it right and I go okay um. Now, interestingly,

(01:14:40):
you know Stevie is a guitar band, and isn't a
time in the early eighties where no label wanted a
guitar band. The music had changed, and I had changed
with it to a degree. Even though I had all
my brothers and in the Atlanta rhythm section, Charlie down unuals.

(01:15:01):
I had been at at at Paragon Agency. We had
employed it. We had brought in Squeeze in getting four
before the New York agencies were bringing any of those
artists into the States, and we also brought in the police.
So I was stretching myself to listen to new music

(01:15:25):
and we were doing that. Consequently, we were also doing
that at UH at MPORE. But I had encouraged me
in coping. You know, young guy UH and John Huey
young guy go to New York starting agency and they
started FBI and really had a great run. So but

(01:15:49):
you know, back to my chapter, Um, we put Stevie
ray Van on as an opener to Greg Alman at
uh UP in Atlanta, across the street from the Fox Theater.
Um pretty sure it was Alex Cooley was a promoter,
but if sometimes that club had been booked by different promoters.

(01:16:16):
So uh, anyway, I went early because the manager was
a friend that I hadn't seen in ten years, and
I didn't go to Texas to check it out. I
had sent somebody, So I felt obliged in early March
to go to the show and be there when they arrived.

(01:16:36):
And I'm sitting in this little outdoor patio and then
walks Chestlee and the band and Stevie ray Van and uh,
you know, so I remember standing up introducing myself for
being introduced. It's just some kind of click that our contact.
We we sort of had a a pretty cool on, right,

(01:17:01):
you know from the get go we're talking about Stevie Stevie.
I had not seen him play, and I didn't know
much about his reputation. I had heard a little bit
about him. Umu Ray Benson from Asleep at the Will
had called me one day and said, uh, you gotta
check out Stevie ray Von, somebody else that's said Stevie,

(01:17:22):
everyone is gonna sign with Rolling Stones Records, and you know,
and how do you you know, just tidbits of information.
But I hadn't gone to see him. I hadn't sought
him out. Chestly called, I sent somebody. I didn't go myself.
And now here I am putting him on a show
and having to meet with Chestly and say what commitment

(01:17:45):
I would make, And Chestly said, you've got to. You've
got to. You've got to tell me and live up
to it that no show will be under a thousand dollars,
so not much money, but at the club scene that
there's a lot of five hundred, seven hundred fifty and
eight hundred dollar gigs, you know. So I made the
commitment and it wasn't an average amount, No single show

(01:18:09):
would be under a thousand dollars, and uh so I
committed and they and of course he hadn't played yet,
but I just felt there was enough information and confidence
in my young guy worked for me um and I
found out that he was, you know, had some a

(01:18:30):
lot a lot of had done a lot of work
in those various clubs just needed somebody to push it
a little harder. Um. He went on stage and you
just you know, your your jaw drops and your eyes
get bigger, and you just got don't believe it. And
he's just absolutely that good. And you know, you always

(01:18:53):
wonder if you are in a receptive mode, and it's
not really that good, right, right, right, So all of
Greg's musicians just came and said, oh my god, unbelievable,
just as just just just just totally unreal. And UM,

(01:19:15):
so I congratulated him on a good set and we
went to work. Then we got him. I had Carol
actually booked the show at the bottom Line in New York.
Uh and uh Stevie uh Stevie took the headlines as
the opener. Um who was the headliner again? Um, I

(01:19:38):
probably wouldn't have remembered except for a story Rob like
told me in the last couple of years. Um, Uh,
Bryan Adams, I think I'm pretty sure we shouldn't look
that up. But anyway, UM took the headlines, you know,
like who would be afraid of a little of the
three piece of guitar band to open up at the

(01:20:00):
bottom Line? Um, chastely had been in the industry from
Columbia Records in uh in Uh London had worked with
A Grateful Dead in San Francisco and at at a
lot of friends and a lot of places, and he
had invited uh Mick Jagger to see Stevie at the
bottom Line and and Mick Jagger has a way of

(01:20:23):
slipping and slipping out without being seen, but he was.
He was there, and others wanted, uh, um, you know,
we're blown away, you know, I mean in New York
at the bottom Line at some other clubs. You know,
people are always curious about what's going on, and sometimes

(01:20:43):
people missed the opening act. But it was pat and
Stevie did did did this thing. It was just amazing.
But he was also going to go on tour um
with David Boye. And I remember in the dressing room
and saying, uh, you know, we'll book some side dates.
We'll book on off dates, will and our well, your

(01:21:05):
record is now out. The record was out and it
was exploding, not exploding, and CBS record he didn't make
a deal with Rolling On. The album came out on
CBS on Epic part of the CBS company, right Um
John Hammond signing, and I mentioned earlier that nobody was
signing guitar bands. John Hammond, Um, I guess Chesty went

(01:21:32):
to a lot of labels. Actually, Stevie was helped by
Jackson Brownie Larned in Miss Studio for some for some
of the work that came out on Texas Flood anyway, Um, uh,
nobody wanted a guitar band. They pressed ten thousand units
originally Hello Nothing. They were sold in three days, and

(01:21:57):
not just in Texas, but could sidill be in Texas?
They relabeled it, gave it a new number, put it
out again, and and pushed the envelope and uh, you know,
Stevie was did a video and Stevie was recouped in
the first nine months. I don't know that it went
gold in nine months, but it was soon to go gold.

(01:22:17):
And of course, uh he continued to put out records,
all recouped within a very short time. When I say
it was exploding, what exploding like you saw during a
later period of time where you know, four hundred thousand
albums and win a week. But it was it was

(01:22:38):
really taken off. And uh so I think we did
probably you know, he had you know gold in in
X number of months maybe first year and then later platinum.
But here's here's uh you know again, um swimming upstream
against the grain and uh. But Stevie was so unique,

(01:23:04):
uh and patient. I didn't want something wasn't earned or
wasn't there. Um, listen to me, and we got the
opportunity to to do the Moody Blues tour. Here's Stevie
ray Van you know nineteen four, Um, would you put

(01:23:33):
him on the Moody Blues tour? And that was the
common thought. No, And I said yes. I talked chestly
into it, which was not easy. Uh. And Stevie was
open minded. That really helped found something in common over

(01:23:55):
the years with certain musicians who would listen and we're
open minded and could could uh, except they could They
could know when something wasn't right and say no. They
could know. And something was so easy to say yes
to even questioned it, and when something was a little
more difficult, they could kind of think it through. Uh.

(01:24:19):
Ultimately Stevie said, let's go do this. This would be
that it's an arena tour. Part of my logic was
who the fans of the Moody Blues. Why aren't they
the same fans of Clapton rockers just just think about it, right,
So Stevie has to get the experience of an arena level. Um,

(01:24:46):
it's a different experience. And you know, how was he
gonna you know do how was they? How are they gonna?
It's not so much how would they accept him? But
that's certainly a consideration and a part of it. But
he needed the exposure then the and the experience, and
he needed it with um, in my opinion, fans that

(01:25:08):
would adapt to him and accept him really quickly. There
was some I just today you would call them blogs.
There was some you know, sheets that were out that
we're very critical. Wanted Stevie to be the traditional new
blues guy, nothing more and nothing less, just blues guy.

(01:25:30):
Not trying to you know, rank it in any particular way.
But but Stevie saw himself, um, being unique, different and
committed to the words guitar band. He knew what he
wanted to do, and he challenged himself musically and he

(01:25:51):
was still doing so when he when he died. Um,
but that was that was a big decision. We're not
sharing an easy one, and not everybody went along with it,
but it worked and then of course, you know, things passed.
The arena tours only so many dates. I'd have to
look it up. I don't remember how many days. But
then what are you gonna do? Well, then you go

(01:26:14):
back to clubs and theaters. But his reputation was enhanced,
the fan base was bigger, we could command more money.
So it was it was, you know, the right thing
to do, and it was a part of the chapter
of stepping up. Later on we did Robert Plant tour

(01:26:38):
and then much later on uh in a fairly short
recording career. But I would say, you know, a bit
later on, Yeah, the conversation came about whether we would
co headline or do a tour with Jeff Beck and
I remember the conversations. Uh. Jeff thatch Hauld canceled a

(01:27:02):
tour or two in the States, I believe, going home early.
But in any case, it didn't. It was like, you know,
where's Stevie and where's Jeff? And Epic Records had picked
him up and had a really cool album out. UM
and Stevie and I discussed it and this this is

(01:27:27):
unfortunately Stevie and and Chestly my friend had broken up. UH.
I had suggested different managers for Stevie to interview with
and then they didn't click. And uh, I said, well,
you know, have the chenth meeting and if and if
there's a you're still not you know, clicking with one

(01:27:51):
of these prospective managers who would love to be involved. Um,
then put my my name down as number eleven and
he said, then it's a list of one, not eleven.
And that was in a hotel room and that's how
I started managing Stevie. So we ended up with this

(01:28:15):
Jeff Beck tour and uh, you know, you read things
that people put out, whether you're writing something or somebody
else's and the consensus was it wasn't going to be
a successful arena level tour. Um, but we won tour
Package of the Year and two publications. We had a

(01:28:36):
very successful tour. Sev closed in New York City and
we had sold three hundred and sixty degrees twenty thousand
people and everybody saying, do you have an extra ticket
because we run it to the box office and it
was it was. The whole thing was amazing. It was
really great. It was a lot of fun. I don't

(01:28:58):
know what we've missed in all that miss We missed
a lot of stuff. Well wait, wait, wait, wait, so Stevie,
that continues. Now you're a manager, when do you start
managing Greg Allman? Uh? When the Allmer Brothers had broken
up and I was in Marriotta still with UH with
the Empire Agency, and before I moved to California with

(01:29:19):
our cm um, the Armor Brothers were on tour and
something had happened in the band was not getting along, uh,
and they broke up. UM. I think at that time
they may have been on Ariostol Records. It wasn't a

(01:29:40):
great album. I don't think Clive Davis was really happy
and they weren't happy with each other. And uh, but
Greg wanted to work and Dicky wanted to work, so
we were booking both and Dreg didn't have a manager.
Whatever it happened with different possibilities of management. So UM,

(01:30:06):
his attorney, who's a fellow in Atlanta, said well, let's
start a management company and call it Rescue Productions or
something like that. And Uh, I said, that's really not
what I'm doing. You know, I'm an agent, but let
me help you on this. So we started, you know,

(01:30:28):
formulating how to do that, and he and his wife
were the lawyer and his wife were doing the books
and take care of that aspect. But he wasn't in
a music business. So I ended up running the running
of the store. And um Greg called me one day said, UM,

(01:30:48):
get rid of this guy. So and his mother asked
me one day if you talked to that fellow, and
I said not yet. She said, well, you know when
it's the right time. Greg's mom was really smart and
uh and uh and a and a good lady. Anyway,

(01:31:08):
um we UM. I started managing Greg um in his
band with the Tola Brothers and uh because Greg liked
to work, you know, if he wasn't working with an
organized situation, he'd show up and work with musicians that
he would know and find himself with a band and

(01:31:30):
out there pick up some pick up some change and work.
He liked. He liked to work, um, but he needed
he needed a new career. Almer brothers needed a new career.
But they were not speaking and uh, I was listening

(01:31:50):
to songs for with the band and in Florida they
had a means of doing demos all right, So the
two demos, I'd send them around and get rejected even
from friends who had had previously loved the owner brothers. Man. Uh.

(01:32:12):
One guy says, like selling a used hire ally and uh,
but I was Uh, I was convinced that it could
be a new start, you know. Um one of his
managers said to me one day, he said, Greg could
singing this, you know the phone book, you know, but

(01:32:34):
I felt there was viability. But the time was you know,
the mood is just the time wasn't there. And and
Greg says, you know, I'm probably gonna be the only
guy with long hair left, but that's not gonna change.
And uh. Anyway, we did photo sessions, and we did

(01:32:57):
this and that, and I listened to songs. I mean
I listened two hundred thousands of songs on albums to
try to find one. I listened to tapes that people
sent and all of a sudden, somebody and I should

(01:33:18):
you know, I apologize to that person. Now I don't
remember who sent me the tape, but I'm no angel
was on it. And uh. I was moving to l A.
And Greg came to l A. Uh. We had some
work to do and some interviews and things to do.
It came to the O c M office and I

(01:33:39):
played him a tape for the first time when I'm
No Angel the demo that was sent and he said
I could do that. So Willie Parkins was my partner
on Greg Almand, and UH got it to the band,
got the tape to the band, they worked it up,
went in the studio in Florida and did a dumb to.

(01:34:00):
How similar was their version to the original demo? Pretty
pretty close? Pretty close? UM changed a little, you know something, UM,
maybe not change as much as Stevie changed cross Fire,
which is another story of the you know, bandmates of
his and others wrote cross Fire. And I was on

(01:34:21):
a bus and listened to that tape and I said,
this is the one you should listen to Stevie and
see if you want to actually massogy and work it
out and record it and h But anyway, so I'm
I'm No Angel, and I I sent so many you know,

(01:34:41):
I mean, I even I would cut out ads from
Billboard from a label and they'd show the titles of
six albums you know that. I would say, how can
I take their ad and superimposed it, cut and pay east, UH,
put Greg's name in on top or third or something,

(01:35:05):
and then may point an hour to it and send
them a demo and send them their own ad. But
you know, with with Greg Allman band, uh name on it,
I'd go to meetings, I'd fly out here and play it.
Nothing couldn't get I could get in the door. That

(01:35:27):
was a compliment, you know. But and I was working
with Stevie, and I was an agent and had had
all of these years of some notoriety of success. I
could get in the door, but nobody was buying. And
I had all these really cool songs, I thought. But
all of a sudden, you know, Greg did this demo,

(01:35:48):
so I put you know, call it three songs, I
don't really remember, and the two or three songs, and
uh send them around and uh um M, I think
an epic in New York. Um is it Bill Barrett? Anyway,

(01:36:16):
maybe Lendy piece the record that my little demo that
we've done for Greg and his musicians in the band.
And it was given to somebody who was flying back. Um,
and it wasn't Harvey Leeds. He got into it as
soon as he got to hear the demo. But in

(01:36:36):
any case, uh, um, you know, on a plane listening
to tapes and I gotta call, like you know, January
the third of whatever year that was. Um, we like this,
we can get a hundred stations on this. Let's go

(01:36:58):
do it. And I'm going like I'm out of pensioned myself.
It is crazy, I said. Okay, So anyway, we ultimately
made a deal with Epic. Uh. Years later, I saw
an executive who who tapped me on the shoulder at
a restaurant and said, because I'm no angel on the

(01:37:19):
demo that I had, I said, you'll have to go
back and find that demo. Okay, just to be clear
your empire, at what point do you move to the
West Coast and what's your decision to do that? About well,
partly because some people said you worked for yourself for
so long, you won't work for anybody else, and uh,

(01:37:40):
I thought that's an interesting comment. But I wondered what
it was like at a large agency, a full service agency,
and I could bring clients and I could do this
job and I and I had, you know, with all
of my experience, I knew had a lot to learn,

(01:38:01):
you know, because it's a big world out there. Um
so um, we talked for a long time, quiet for
a while, talked again, went to New York, talked and um,

(01:38:22):
Jeffberg was in the South or in Atlanta, and grabbed
a car and drove to my home in Marietta. And
I said, you moved me out there, You're gonna move
me wife, two children, two dogs, cars, you know, my

(01:38:44):
forty one four truck and a sixty tea bird. And
I said, you know, are you sure you want to
do this? You know, because he's we've moved people before.
I probably had the biggest moving bill. They'd say it
along and any case I moved out. It was like
I met with my team. I said, here's a plan,

(01:39:06):
keep booking. I worked out this deal. I'm gonna soarb everybody.
You don't have to look for a job tomorrow. UH
need you to stay on and have a kind of
a smooth transition and um and showed up around Memorial Day.
Uh and uh. And you know, when you're in certain

(01:39:30):
towns in the old days, you can pull in a
service station and ask ask the service station attendant or
somebody you know, saying how do I get to and
they'll tell you, well, I was staying at La Park Hotel,
and nobody at any service station or anywhere else had
any clue of the streets or La Park hotel or

(01:39:55):
how to direct me? And I think I finally went
into some store in bottatime Alma Scott. Uh took me
hours to get back to my hotel that night because
I have a habit of working when everybody else is gone.
And uh, in any case, Uh, it was funny. We
were on Beverly Boulevard and I was on and I
think the sixth floor, and um, and it was pretty cool.

(01:40:19):
It had me a very nice corner office. It was amazing.
And it wasn't too long after that a friend who
had known over the years for different associations brought me
a band to sign and book and we did it.
It's called Loudness Japanese rock band Hard Rock Man Japanese band.

(01:40:43):
Great gave me a watch I still have that the
sun makes that's this, you know, the the symbol of
the come. I just like, you know, kind of interesting.
And I put them at Santa Monica at the San
Jose Civic with Bill Graham and uh, there's a poster

(01:41:03):
of that now that we've re re reframed and well
put up found anyway here it is in the in
the you know, four eighty five. Um, and I said, okay,
give me some material to listen to and I'll turn
it over the guys. Fellow hands me the smallest album

(01:41:26):
I've ever seen. So it turns out, you know, it
was a compact test right, it was a c D
and we didn't even have one purchase in the office,
So that was the band. Loudness led to us investing in,
uh some equipment to play c D s at I
see m pretty funny story, absolutely, although you know it's funny.

(01:41:50):
I went to the music heres they still give it
away a c D. It's like, hey, my computer doesn't
even have a CD there? Okay, how does it end
with I? C m um? So many interesting stories about
and I C m um um. I became a responsible
agent for bands that I hadn't like grown up with

(01:42:13):
from first album in the Capricorn days, or hadn't had
a story of, like STEVI abing unsigned and all of
a sudden, here's you got this monster roster and C
A A is is blossoming and poaching all the agents
and poaching all the bands, and uh and uh, so

(01:42:35):
you've really got to meet new people and absorb yourself
and get some sense of confidence from them and hire
and fire and coach and do all of those things
all at once very quickly. Um uh fascinating. And the
routing from from territorially, the West Coast office was booking

(01:42:56):
the Western States and it's not as many cities and
you know in the Midwest and the East and the southeast,
so uh, you know, different, just a different deal big
and uh. But I enjoyed it. But I met Don Hardon,

(01:43:17):
famous manager, yes, Sharon Osborne's father. Yeah, I meant, I
became a responsible agent for a couple of his clients.
And I was thrown into You're gonna be the West
Coast guy to you know, to talk to John Denver,
and you know, all of a sudden, you know that

(01:43:37):
they had this roster um and they needed uh, you know,
they had a new guy. And I'm a new guy
with a Southern accent. And I'm sure the the hierarchy
and the pecking order of all of Los Angeles who
might know I see him, had heard this guy in

(01:43:58):
times had changed music le uh. And I was probably
given no more than six months by any betting card.
But I'm still here. So how long do you work
for I CM? I worked for them until uh, I'd
say I think it was January an interested now just

(01:44:19):
sounded a new contract. But I got an interesting offer
from Jimmie natal Lander. So when I tell you I'd
worked for Landers twice the first time started in and
was it the same operations, the same job, pretty much similar,
you know? And how long do you don't think we
had titles back then? Right? How long did you do

(01:44:42):
that for? I was, I was how long? What? How
long did you work with dieter Lando the first time
through most of the season of ninety four and then
you go to h O B. There was there was

(01:45:02):
There was really no h O B. I think they
were still putting up folk art on sunset Um. But
um I met with uh the m c A folks
and one of the guys was out. J Marciano was
in and uh um So they had talked to me before,

(01:45:32):
but this was ninety four and in done some really
cool things with Needle Lander. We had done uh I
was a point guy. We had done two dates of
Pink Florida at Yankee Stadium. We had opened the pond
which is now und of center, when had six shows
of Barber Stwis in two nights. I think of Rod Stewart.

(01:45:56):
We were doing dates at the Sports Arena, plus of
course the Greek Theater and Pacific Amphitheater, so here I was.
You know, this was and they had their amphitheaters which
we you know described and we talked about. So I'm
managing Stevie ray Van. I've got the Greek Theater under

(01:46:20):
my umbrella. I got my own private management company, and
I worked for Jimmy Needlander. This is pretty damn good.
So uh but nur um, you know, they knocked on
my door and I'm you know, reciprocated, I suppose, and uh,

(01:46:40):
I told Jimmy that I had an offer, and I
think sometime around September and the fall, I took the
offer and moved over to Uh you know, I think
at first it was a closet that they gave me.
But yeah, you know, with an air, I was right

(01:47:01):
on my head. I got it flew right off the bat.
What was your responsibility there? Now? In all in all seriousness,
they you know, you gotta get you got, you gotta
get officers ready, and you gotta assimilate and uh and
get yourself into a new position and and so uh,

(01:47:22):
booking would be one of my responsibilities. I was vice
president or executive vice president of senior vice president or
some some some level. I don't think it was executive
vice president title. But it was decent and good pay
and an ice offer and all of a sudden a
new environment. UM, so you know, a lot of vibrancy.

(01:47:47):
Jay was getting the Toronto amphitheater UH finished up and
had had his eyes on opening an amphitheater and San Diego.
All of this was uh in order. UM we had
UM we had an amphitheater deal in uh Cleveland and

(01:48:09):
one in Dallas in Atlanta, and you know it's I
mean it's a big operation. They had m c A
had a booking office in New York. UM, so you know,
it was kind of similar, but a different. Inventory of venues.
In Universal Amphitheater was the twelve months a year competition

(01:48:34):
to the Greek Theater. Greek being seasonal and outdoors. Universal
Amphitheater UH indoors and twelve months a year. And so
I became, you know, one of the one of the
key bookers for that. We recruited uh Melissa Miller before
she was married Melissa Ormond now uh uh as well

(01:48:57):
Larry Vallen was still there. He was doing some of
the nues in transitioning a little bit away from Universal.
Um and UH met a young girl, lady in uh uh,
young woman in special events who was helping to work

(01:49:17):
on the Latin shows. And so I started working with
her closer um, you know, getting rid of her bosses
and bringing her up in statue. And anyway, there we
are at uh the calendar for Universal Amphitheater. And as

(01:49:38):
a booker, as an as a as a promoter with
a venue, I mean, whether it be the Greek or
whether it be Universals or two you know, great venues,
iconic venues, and so matter the calendar and and and

(01:49:59):
making that cho us is and being competitive and pay
more money than the other guy, doing a better job
at marketing than the other guy. So we we had
a good We had a good run. And then one
day the company was sold Edgar Braffman, and then Edgar
Brochman decided he wanted every label in the world and
he was going to get rid of some smaller and

(01:50:20):
boutique companies and didn't really put the equation together that
the concert promoting wing company or division was synergistically important
a core to the record business. And you can make
the argument one way or the other, but you know,

(01:50:41):
live music well certainly have changed after the turn of
the century. Dry Okay, So then you're with h O B.
And then and then the h O B things interesting
because we were interested in making a deal to kind
of acquire this h O B equation uh into m

(01:51:01):
c A Universal Concerts. And I think the name of
Universal Concerts m c A Concerts changed a couple of times,
you know, and and um, it makes designers happy because
they redo the cards. Um. So we ultimately go, wow,
we need we need a new home. Our company is

(01:51:28):
being sold. So s f X or Clear Channel or
a SMG facility management company now merged in a s
M And what's what's going to happen here? Um? Ultimately,

(01:51:49):
with the blanking equation and the investment equation of House
of Blues, they thought, and we thought, and the selling
party m c A thought it would be good to,
you know, figure out how to have a merger or
acquisition of House of Blues and pick up m c
A Concerts. So m c A Concerts becomes House of

(01:52:13):
Blues Concerts and often running the House of Blues ultimately
was affected by their investments in all kinds of new technology.
It was imploding. How do you ultimately get from House
and Blues back to need the enter Well, a couple
of chapters and a couple of things. In particular, they're one.

(01:52:35):
The House of Blues thought they had the new model
for of you know, videoing concerts, concerts and the clubs,
and there was some people there, Uh, we're convinced that
it was going to change the outcome of selling albums
to the extent that they wouldn't have to pay royalties

(01:52:59):
and get releases from the artists they were recording. I
don't think that worked out so well. The the thing
that really worked was that you had two good divisions
to You had the concert group with this new logo
and brand, and you had a pretty amazing brand with

(01:53:23):
House of Blues. And I say amazing because I could
check in a hotel almost any city and in the States,
and we'll be on an airplane and somebody say, well,
I love the House of Blues in my city, And
I said, where do you live in the Napolis, Indiana?
They don't have a House of Seattle, Washington, they didn't
have a house. But you know, the brand was huge

(01:53:48):
and almost went public. They were the company almost went public.
But this this UM dot com bubble kind of burst
and that was one of the that was one of
the equations to take the dot com thing and in
all of that new technology, and that was going to
be explosive and take us into the public world and

(01:54:12):
you know, be a very successful stock market equation. Uh,
it didn't happen, but we were still doing business doing
it well. A lot of you know changes around the
scene UM outside UM meaning SFX, the Clear Channels to

(01:54:36):
then the spinoff of Live Nation and ultimately in two
thousand and six, Michael Lupino got his board to make
a pretty during big offer for the House of Blues.
And I stayed on a few months and uh it
was one of the last concert executives to leave, and

(01:54:58):
a lot of changes and then uh I left and
was sitting at home helping my son book a tour
that never happened on a band, but we had it routed,
had some deposits that just didn't happen. It's kind of
having fun, you know, UH plan plan with with adult

(01:55:20):
toys and helping my son and this and that. Uh
and I remember going shopping for a gift from my
wife and running into a house neatle Lander executive who said, Uh,
you gotta come back, Jimmy, won't you back? And uh,

(01:55:43):
ultimately we started talking and I walked in the door
in April of two thousand and seven. If you hadn't
gone back to Nita land or do you think you
would have been done? Or would you find something else?
I probably found something else. I mean I was thinking
about the agency world with um, you know, the routing
of bands the other side of the is the same equation,

(01:56:06):
you know? And and how the book. I don't think
I would have was listening in to those skills. But
I didn't have any Uh, I didn't have any clients
and for the agency world, and Stevie Raybone had died
in nineteen nineties, so all of a sudden, you was
sixteen years later and uh when they sold, and seventeen

(01:56:27):
years later when I walked back in the door. Uh.
Certainly I missed every chapter that I went through, and
all of these iterations I missed them. And somebody said,
will you remember the good stuff? And I, of course
I'll remember the good stuff. I remember the hard stuff. Um,
but I I like what I do now and I

(01:56:49):
like what I did then. So it answers you a question.
If if I hadn't gone back to needle Land or
I wouldn't, I would have, and I was talking to
some people I would have. I would have stayed uh
in the business and probably on the live music tide,
possibly as an agent, possibly another promoting company. Okay, so

(01:57:14):
we've heard your long story career. Are you gonna be
a book like that guy who died during the show
two weeks ago? Are you gonna die at the venue?
I don't think so, but um I might die at
a new venue that we haven't opened yet. Well, I
guess I'm saying without using the euphemism, are you ever

(01:57:36):
gonna retire? You know I have? I have hobbies and
things that I like to do, like water skiing. Water
skiing in particular. I'm at my age, I'm pretty all
my nephews, niece's brothers, and they've all quit water skiing,
and I still slalom water skiing, cut back and four

(01:57:59):
across way. Uh. You know, I enjoy it. It gets me.
It gets me going. I'll say, my breast gets out
a little sooner than it used to. So I gotta
work on my my my legs and my cardio. But
but I love that I love anything on the water.
I could probably uh figure out something that allowed me

(01:58:23):
to be on the water or and be a happy
camper um. But I like what I do. I like
the challenges. I have always been uh in an underdog
situation if you go back to the very beginning story
that I've told you, and I forget the story in
the transition, because you gotta go to work every day.
But you know, small making Georgia, and we aren't the biggest.

(01:58:48):
Now we're a small independent promoting company thank fully supported
by the Needle Leander family, by Jimmy Needle Lander, you know,
Jimmy senior son, Uh, James L. Nada Lander is a
great boss and a great partner and a great friend
and enormously supportive to our you know, to our staff.

(01:59:15):
So we'll like to think we're the you know, really
unique in in and how we find a way to
keep doing it and didn't do it better and then
grow and you know, three consecutive years of improvement since
the city took over the Greek and we still book
shows at the Greek. So as long as there's a challenge.

(01:59:37):
I'm probably up for it. Okay, you've seen so much,
you book so much, your two favorite shows ever. Oh boy,
that's hard, I know, but I'm gonna make you do it.
You want to give me six now? Okay, I'll give

(01:59:58):
you a few more if you got on the top
of your head. Well, you know, uh, when before I
could drive, I saw I saw Elvis Presley at the
Fox there in Atlanta, Georgia, and it was an indelible imprint.
It was just cool and it was a matinee show. Um,
and I couldn't drive. So when you think about, you

(02:00:18):
know how that plays, I don't know really how it
plays except and able to scream it aloud. You couldn't
hear everything the way you wanted to. But it was
totally indelible. Amazing. Did that have anything to do with
the career that I later have? Who knows? Are you

(02:00:40):
directed by some unseen force? You know? I have no idea,
but I know people go to shows and it will
end up being an agent. Um, I would guess. Uh.
One of my favorites would be would be um Steve

(02:01:00):
very Van at Madison Square Garden. If you take the
whole thing and put it together that I had told him.
I had asked him, have you been an opening act
at Medicine Square Garden before we met or He said no,

(02:01:21):
and I haven't even been in Madison Garden. And I said,
you won't go to Madison Square Garden to play or
you know, until we can headline and in that particular venue.
My goal for you is the headline and we'll be

(02:01:42):
able to sell three sixty all the way around. Meantime,
we'll do New Jersey and Long Island, anything and everything else,
but we're not going to go to Madison Square Garden
until you can head on and we can sell three sixty.
And we accomplished that. It was pretty amazing. Everything about
that day was amazing. Um, pretty cool. You gotta really

(02:02:06):
add some some you know. When we did um Barber
Striching at the Pond, that was totally special. Some of
the shows that I that I remember, you know that
I really liked a lot, uh uh you know, you
knowing the police did I always thought was great and

(02:02:28):
we were involved. I thought, I you know, sometimes you
gotta pay for a ticket. And John Huey, who had
hired and worked for me and making had moved to
New York and working with Ian and I flew to
New York and we got on the train and we
went to Long Island to see the Wall Pink Floyd

(02:02:49):
the Wall that first time. And uh, I'm telling you
that that's got a rank and you know, a top three. Now, my,
you're just pretty pretty amazing. Um. So, I don't know,
they're really they're really hard to to pinpoint. I thank you.

(02:03:10):
If I had, if I, if I had a drink
with you on Saturday and a drink with you on Sunday,
and I'll drink with you on Monday. And you asked
me the same question, i'd probably for the most part,
pick different shows. I don't know if they'd be the same,
but maybe these were. These were pretty pretty special, pretty indelible. Okay, Alex,

(02:03:31):
I know we've only scratched for knowing you for all
these scratch the surface. There's so many storm stories. Maybe
another type of thanks for being here, your thank you
for having it's been fun. Absolutely, thank you until next time.
This is Bob left Sid

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