Brinsley Schwarz

Brinsley Schwarz was a king of the pub rock scene with his own band and then became a member of the Rumour, which backed up Graham Parker and ultimately released records under its own moniker. Brinsley went on to work as a guitar tech in a music shop and then reunited with Graham Parker after getting over his fear of flying. Listen to the story of a journeyman who was never a star, but made a life out of music, who has a new album to boot!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bobmasu's podcast. My guest
today is Brinsley Schwartz. Brinsley, good to have you here,
could be here? What think okay? For the Americans were
out of the loop? What exactly was pub rock? Easy? Rock?
Was any music than any band wanted to play in
a pub. There wasn't as no such thing as a

(00:30):
a music genre that you could say was pub rock.
It was just what everybody played. Anybody played in a pub. Okay,
So then why did it get a label? What was
different about it from what came before? I was well
so musically I'd say that the biggest difference between the

(00:50):
two things was, Hey, you get into words like honest um,
but pub rock was down to earth, just playing songs.
And there were no no long sometimes tedious guitar solos
or keyboard silos or drum solos. He never saw a
drub solo in a pub, so so much more focused

(01:12):
on the songs and the and the excitement. The level
of energy was was higher, The audience was really close
that they could they could get the vibe and see
what was going on, much better than bigger bands that
played in big places and It also provided a place

(01:33):
for bands that were never going to be able to
play get up to playing in in big places, somewhere
to play, and eventually some of them did get up
to play in big places. So well, let's set the scene,
let's put it in context. When did pub rock begin? Well,
so it depends when you when you think it begun.

(01:54):
Um Eggs Over Easy with the band the first band
that any of us saw playing in a in a pub.
They were American from San Francisco area, I believe Um.
We saw that we we were fed up and playing

(02:14):
in bigger places, mostly colleges, and the idea of playing
with an audience in front of you, not having to
play your set of album songs, you could play whatever
you wanted appealed. So in the timeline we saw Eggs
Over Easy. Um. Two weeks later, Oh Dave Robinson, our manager,

(02:39):
and myself went around pubs in London trying to persuade
landlords that would be a really good idea to have
us play in the pub. A lot of them didn't
didn't get it, but they did get that we would
play for nothing until until they were making enough money
to be able to pay us, which so they liked

(03:01):
that idea, and a few weeks later we were we
started playing in pubs and pretty pretty soon and it
went down really well. It's pretty soon there were as
many people outside as there were inside. It was summer,
so it was a good time of year to be
doing it. And pretty soon other other bands joined in,

(03:25):
got gigs in some of the pubs, and I would say,
but that that's when it became pub rock. Well that's when,
roughly when the press took notice and labeled it pub rock. Okay,
this would be what year for what year did you
start playing the pubs? Yeah, I would say seventy summer

(03:49):
of seventy one. Okay, So for those of us who
are not English, this is in London or did it
spread throughout the nation? It was it was mostly in London,
uh and closely around London. But yeah, i'd say it
was in London. Okay, So we don't have pubs in

(04:10):
the US. How large would these pubs be? How many
people could be there when you performed? Um? Probably maybe
the larger ones could hold hundred fifty two hundred people.
There was a place, a pub called the Kensington, which
was had a large mainly road but large paving part outside.

(04:36):
And I definitely remember going out one very hot summer
evening and that that section of that square being packed
of people with people and the inside but so in
or maybe four hundred people, but mainly I'd stay between
hundred two hundred like your it's just the same thing.

(04:59):
And that's states like bars, larger what you called larger bars, okay.
And how many of these bars were there? How many
were in the circuit so to speak, um, ten a
dozen so not many, no, no, not not a lot
to know. Okay, So when you start playing the pubs,

(05:21):
do you how frequently do you play? And do you
play at the same pub or different pubs? We we
played in maybe four to six different pubs and once
a week or once a fortnight. So we were you know,
we were playing just an ordinary amount, but always mostly
in pubs. And once you established you could generate a crowd,

(05:45):
how much revenue could you generate, um, fifty per person
on the door, maybe a hundred pounds, two hundred pounds,
not a lot of money, okay, it's like it's like
it is now. We don't do this for the money.
We do it because it's fun. That's that's how it

(06:05):
how it was. We weren't really looking for anything else.
We just wanted to play. Okay, so Dave Robinson Jermana joing.
At this point the act is called Brinsley Schwartz. Do
you say Schwarz with the te or without the tea?
Now we say it with the T, but it's it
rhymes with hearts. It's Prinsley Schwartz, not princely Schwartz. One

(06:30):
more time, I gotta how do you pronounce it? Schwartz?
Swats so it rhymes with huts. I got it. I'm
trying to you know, It's like in the UK, Ray
it's Ray Davis, and here it's Ray Davies. But we'll
soldier forward. So who's who's in the man Brinsley Schwartz

(06:52):
at this point myself, Nickla, Bob Andrews, Billy Rankin in gone.
So that's the five of us. Okay, let's let's go
back a little bit further when okay, where do you
grow up? Sorry? Where did I grow up? Yeah? Mostly

(07:14):
in a place called Tunbridge Wells, which is in Kent,
or or in villages around. We moved quite a lot,
but never a long way. So around Tumbridge Wells yeah,
the south southeast corner. How far from London thirty five?
And did you go into London a lot or were

(07:35):
you living like in the country mentally? Um M, well, yeah,
we went into into London a lot. By the time
pub Rockets started we were living as a band together
in a house in a place called Northward, which was
northwest London. So as the as the debacle in nine

(07:57):
seventy started, we all moved into London and lived pretty
much in London. Okay, so let's go back. You're moving around.
Why are you moving around as a family so much?
My parents moved along. We we were we were a
house to do a rothers. They bought houses, we fixed

(08:18):
them up in the holidays. After a couple of years
we dined again. And was that Was that their main
means of employment or did the outside jobs? Now? My
my father was a school teacher in a in a
private school, which is the opposite to yours. You would
call it a public school. Yes, And how many kids

(08:42):
in the family just too then? Which were you the older,
the younger, the older? Whatever happened with the younger? Um,
she got married and moved away. She's she's now living
in Scotland with a second husband. Okay, so you're growing up,

(09:06):
when do you get exposed to music and excited about music?
I think pre pre Elvis, I can remember, so I
have to dig dig into memories. I remember a record
called Green Door, which I have no idea Who's who's

(09:26):
saying that Frankie, Frankie somebody, Frankie Vaughn maybe um. And
that that's the first record that I I said I
heard as a record. But pretty soon after that I
was listening to Elvis Presley and then all of the
late fifties and early sixties music. And the real turning

(09:53):
point was when I heard a tune called Patche which
was performed by a band called the show Days m
And that is why why I wanted to be a
guitar player. Okay, so how did you hear these records
on the radio? Did you buy the records on the radio?
Mostly historically we've learned that radio was very controlled in

(10:17):
the UK with the BBC, and people would listen to
Radio Luxembourg Radio Caroline, what was your experience that well,
that Radio Luxembourg Radio carry on a bit later later
than this, but yes, it most most radio was by
the BBC, and they were very strict um rules about

(10:39):
what could be played and what couldn't be played. And
it wasn't until the pirate radio stations started up that
we started to hear music from from the from more
from the States um that we hadn't had a chance
to to hear in England. Now, Liverpool was a dark

(11:02):
city and they say that the sailors came in with
blues records and that influenced the scene. There was that
only in Liverpool. Was it also where you were or
in the Kent area It wasn't. It wasn't in the
Kent area. The top forty was probably in stock in
the late local record store. Um it was. It was

(11:26):
very very young and and unworldly or experiences at that time.
It was a long time before I heard of blues record.
I don't remember which the first had a friend and
older friend who there was a guitar player who who
got me around to his place one day said listened

(11:48):
to this and put on John mel Male Blues Breaker
album and that was probably the first time I heard
a blues record. And and I remember I remember listening
to Albert king In in the local records store. You
could go into a booze. That happened in the States too.

(12:12):
You could get into a booth and if there was
no one in the store, they just played the record
for you. And so I used to do that. Um okay,
so you hear you hear apache tell me about picking
up an instrument and playing. Um. I hustled my parents.
They gave me a classical guitar for my birthday and

(12:38):
I just wanted to play a patty. I learned that
by myself without and they just from the tune figured
out some chords. And I've got a book called Five
Common Chords, which was which was a bad book to
get because it showed you every chord in all of
its inversions, and so every chord was a different poet

(13:02):
in your head, but really they were all the same,
just moved up and down the fingerboard. It was an
actually much easier thing to learn to play guitar than
a lot of other instruments, which I tried to play
later on. And if you started with the book, do
you know how to read music? No? So I did

(13:24):
younger at school. I think I got to grade four piano,
Grade four it's called in this country. So I could
read music, but once I started playing guitar, I found
that I could I knew what was coming next and
where it was quicker than I could read it off

(13:45):
the of the page. So I ended up really learning
everything by ear. So you never took a lesson. Much
later on I took I did some lessons when when
some guitar dam is opened up in London that would
have been in the in the eighties, I guess and

(14:05):
I went to some of that. And what were you
learning to learn and searching to learn and what did
you actually learn? Um? I guess I was searching to
learn steely Den chords and parts. I did learn the
solo to here's a memory stuff. Uh, well it's a

(14:26):
major Larry Carlton solo on a on the steely Den charm. So, um,
when do you get an electric guitar? Um? Well, this
is where helping my father was with the doing up

(14:47):
the house was. I got a shilling a day that's
ten cents maybe maybe it's about ten twelve cents um
for helping, for which I had to do things like
crawl under the floorboards to pull the electricity cables through.
Do you know that spiders are white and alive? When

(15:10):
they're underneath floorboards. Um. And I got enough money to
buy a an electric guitar. But when I went to
to buy one, I thought I knew what it was
that I wanted. My eye settled on something different, and

(15:31):
my parents very kindly paid difference for me. So I
got a half decent electric guitar, which was what it
was called a Oftener color Rama. It was red and
looked like the guitar that Hank Martin as the Shadows used,
and that was good enough for me. And what about

(15:51):
an amplifier? Yeah, I just got a little one and
I it had vowels in it, but I didn't really
know what that meant and important it was until much
later later on. Okay, So you're playing and at this
point your hold okay, and at what point do you say, hey,

(16:12):
I want to play with others? And what happens? Um?
When I when I left school, I left school at eighteen, Um,
I didn't want to go to university, although I had
a place. I wanted to be a guitar player. What
before we get there, you never played in a group

(16:34):
or anything in high school or you know whatever, your
secondary school. Yeah, okay, in my so this is part
of part of my time that I don't think about
too much. I went to a boarding school when I
was fourteen and we had a band. We used to
sneak out underneath play underneath the stage in the hall

(16:55):
in the middle of the night. Um. There were six
of us. We were sounds, four plus two. We didn't
really know what we were doing, but it was a
lot of fun and I guess part of it was
sneaking out at night in the middle of the night
to smoke cigarettes, drink cider and play underneath the hall.

(17:16):
But we did go. Nicklay's father was an r af
UM commander and in Germany and we went to uh
We went there to play for the for the kids,

(17:38):
and we were all fifteen sixteen, so I think we
played five shows. We traveled in my My parents had
a sleeper bus and yeah, we all piled in with
it to amplifiers and a snare drum. I went and played.
That was the only time that I had played before

(18:00):
leaving school. And do you remember what the material was? Yeah,
any rock and roll song that we could sing, one
of us who could sing could put together. Although we
did we played a lot of Beatles. I remember playing
you really got me and thinking, well this is fabulous.
But yeah, that kind of said what we would call

(18:23):
pop music in England. Okay, did music bring it together
with Nick Low? Or were you friends before that and
music brought us to get together? We were two years
apart in school and you didn't mess with people two
years apart. So how did you actually cook up with Nick?
I think we're people were talking one day and we

(18:48):
all ended up with in the in the room under
the stage, in the in the hall, and that's that's
kind of how it started. It was he always a
bass player or did that just you know we needed
a bass player in the band. No, it wasn't. I
think he had a base by the time we went
and played in Germany. But but before before then he

(19:10):
had a had along I think probably a bit of
a clothes line, like plastic lines um sort of broomstick
and a packing case and and just plucked at it.
We were all just whatever we had. We just wanted
to do be in this and and so we did

(19:32):
what we could. The Beatles hit in sixty two. What
was it like when the Beatles hit you were still
in secondary school? It was m hm, it was it

(19:54):
was everything that was wildly exciting. Um, it was all
people would talk about. The the anticipation for the next
single was was was massive? Um, yeah, it was. It
was a turning point for the as it turned out,

(20:14):
for the world. I would say, right, but you were
a couple of years ahead of us in the UK
and all these other acts that we consider to be
the British invasion in the US. You know, the ones
from Liverpool and then you have the Kinks. What was
it like having that scene in the UK? Um, yeah,

(20:35):
it was just it was just it was it was
almost everything that we thought about that I guess. I
guess we thought about football as as well and girls,
but otherwise it was it was the music. It's what
everybody was interested in. All the hangouts in record stores

(20:57):
and well, right, I was never allowed to go to
a coffee shop, but I guess a coffee bar as
they were called. Then that's what we talked about. That
overtook movies and things like that as the main event.
It was wildly exciting. Okay, you graduate from what we

(21:21):
call high school, you decide you don't want to go
to college. Your father is a teacher, what does he
have to say about that? He's not happy. Neither of
my parents are happy, but they could see that it
was what I wanted to do, and they came up
with an offer that they would take care of me
vie if I got any money. I contributed part of

(21:45):
it to the running of the household and I had
a year and if I didn't it didn't succeed. After
a year, then I was either out of out of
my own or UM gone toinun of city. So they
looked after me for a for a year, probably longer
in the end. So what happened in that year? In

(22:08):
that year somebody somebody knocked on the door or or
telephoned me. I think they knocked on the door or
either that or somebody knew my mother UM, and a
word got sent down a line somewhere, and this guy
whose name was Dave Cottam turned up and said, I
hear you play guitar and can sing. Do you want

(22:30):
to be in a band, to which I said yes.
So that band came known as three as a Crowd
and which later turned into Cypington Lodge and we eventually
made singles for Am I or Parlophone UM. And that

(22:52):
that was. That was the beginning of what I would
call a career. Wh Okay, how long after we've calls
you are you making records for EM? I must must
be a year, a year, a year and a half
something like that. A long time and you're still living
at home? What are you? You know? What are you

(23:14):
living on? Financially? Very little? Hardly anything at all? Really?
So how does the band get a deal with the
m I we h A guy asked to manage us?
Saw us playing somewhere, asked the manager as we said, okay,
and he got he got the deal. Um, I think

(23:37):
they paid for us to do a couple of demos
and and he carted those around the record labels and
we ended up getting a deal for five singles, which
we ended up doing. So what happened with kippington Um?
We made? We made five singles? People change, We became

(23:59):
an left so that the drama who was the last
person to leave, he left and week that's where we
got when we got Billy ranking in Um the bass
player whose band it was in the start, he left
because he wanted to play soul music and we didn't. UM.

(24:19):
That's when Nick joined UH and then and then we
decided we needed an organ player, and that's where Barry
Landerman came, who was at the same school as Nick
and myself. So basically I phoned around people that I've
been at school with and said you want to join
a band? And people did and so um and then

(24:43):
in the end Barry left. He went and played with
a real pop group called Vanity Fair and and then
we had we advertised and found Bob Andrews. Okay, what
was Nick doing? We've were you called them? I have
no I have no idea, but see, obviously nothing that

(25:05):
important because he just jumped at the chance and and
came down. Okay, when is it goal? From Kippington Lane
to Brindsley s Keypington Lodge that there was Commington Lodge
somewhere somewhere in the middle of that appears, so the
four and after so I guess sometime in sixty six

(25:27):
days or sixty nine um, and yeah, they showed the
other three chose the name. Okay, okay, let's stop. The
name ends up being your name, Brinsley Shot, how does
that happen? We agreed that that Keypington Lodge was not
a good name and that we should leave that behind

(25:50):
and all that it had meant um, and we were
going to write down or suggested names, get together and
pick them one at a time and choose one. Uh.
And when that was due to happen on the Sunday,
I think, And when I turned up at Nick and

(26:13):
Bob's flat, they said, no, need to do that, We've
chosen already and they told me and I thought, oh no,
that's not pretty good, and but they said they were adamant.
So that's how I happen. Well, there's a benefit to
the p and being your name. And I'm sure all

(26:34):
this all this time later because of the recognition, you're
probably happy. Yeah. I didn't. I didn't think about it
much after that, you know, I just complained and then said, yeah, okay,
let's do that. Okay, it's keeping in livee. You made
the five records for you, am I. The band keeps
morphing now, as Brinsley shots what happens then? Um, we

(27:01):
saw an adverse in the Melody Maker, which was the
main music magazine of the time, UM, advertising for a
band that had their own equipment and wrote songs. And
we did have our own equipment and we did write songs.
So we called up the person turned up to Dave
Robinson who came down to Tombridge Wells and saw us play.

(27:26):
We went to for a few meals, mostly Indian meals
with him. He told lots of great stories about stuff
and we agreed to let him manage us. In reality,
what did he have going on when he was courting you? Um,
he didn't have very much going on. He was his company,

(27:47):
which was just him basically was involved with a small
group of companies of small companies who were involved in
the payment business. Although Forbidden Fruit who are clothes story
up in London, it was one of them. There was
a little film film company um and an album cover

(28:12):
designer Barney Bubbles, who went on to do quite a
lot and that was overseen by by this money man
and so Apart from wowing us with stories about about
Hendricks and touring and various other things, his idea was

(28:34):
for us to play and and move up the ladder,
play the right gigs and trying to move up up
the ladder, playing bigger places and on tours with people
with big bands. Okay, tell me about Dave Robinson. Weltimately
goes on to form Stiff Records and he continues to

(28:56):
be a manager. What was he like Was he a
force of nature? Was he lucky? Was he was a
force of nature? Definitely? Did? Do you know the story
of how he got us at the gig, at the
film or east? No? But are we jumping ahead? I
know that, I mean, I want to hear you tell
the story. But let's go a little bit slower. So

(29:17):
you're playing, You're playing around, the band has your name.
What ultimately happens UM It comes to a point where
we realized that, uh, it's just not going to go
anywhere unless we do something that we do something out

(29:39):
of the ordinary or something big enough to get the
attention of any kind of record label. It was not
very easy to get on even if you had a manager,
it was not easy to get to get on UM.
So we decided that we'd go the route of trying

(30:00):
to to do something that would catch attention. And the
question was put to the other member the other companies
that were involved in the in the group of companies,
and they came up with some pretty bizarre ideas, but
the one that stuck was that we would we would.

(30:25):
It's like a circle that you have to close all
of the all of the things at the same time.
So we would get a major gig in the United States,
we could get a record company and a songwriting deal
so that we could pay for transporting press music press

(30:45):
from around the world to see us play at at
whatever gig it was. So we dave I did. Had
to get the gig on a promise, had to get
the called company on a promise, and so on and
close the wall at the same pretty much at the
same time, which he which he did. Um, and that's

(31:12):
what we were set about doing. Well, that's what he
set about doing. So how did it play out? Um? Well?
So now now is there right to tell the story
about how he got us the gig? Friday afternoon in London,
he calls up and hearing names again, he's list with names.

(31:36):
Who was it that owned or ran ah those two
gigs on the West coast of Bill Graham? Bill Graham.
So he calls up Bill Graham's office, gets to speak
to Bill. Bill Graham says, I have a I have
a band, we have a we have a record deal,
and we want to fly the world's press to come

(31:58):
and see the band playing at the film Warriors. Bill
Graham thinks that I got a crazy guy on the
phone and says to Dave, Okay, send me the tape
and I'll see what we can do, and puts the
phone down and forgets all about us Dave. Dave gets
books a flight to San Francisco. I guess he was.

(32:20):
He was in And on Monday morning, when Bill Graham
comes into his office, David sitting in his office with
the tape. Um Bill Graham says, hello, who are you?
What can I do? Okay? So I called you on Friday.
I've got a band, We've got a record deal. We
want to fly the world's press to see them play
at the film War East. And I brought the tape.

(32:42):
You asked for the tape. Here it is. Bill gram said,
it's okay, I don't need the tape. You've got the game.
And that's how That's how Dave Romson did stuff. He
was a force of nature. You didn't say no, go
away at that point. Um so so yes, so we

(33:05):
got the gig, and I do want the whole story.
It goes on forever, okay. So I can only set
it from my my point of view. I know there's
lots of stuff out there that there's been a book
or books written. I haven't read very much of any
of them. Um, you know I was, I was there.

(33:29):
Really the book kind of boring. Um, So Dave tired
start at the beginning for the press. Here he got
all the pressed together. UM, who thought should come and
and rented a plane from air lingus. He was irish,

(33:53):
so maybe he had a few strings to pull. Um,
which was supposed to take the press from heath Row
to Kennedy. Um. He sorted out visa applications. We had
an exchange band. In those days, the musicians unions of

(34:15):
both countries had to agree before any visa could be granted,
so our musicians you had to to vet us and
make sure that there was another band from the States
coming to take our place, and vice versa. The band
that was chosen was Love, and I'm going to forget

(34:36):
the guy's name again. Who was the singer in Love? Arthur?
He developed laryngoitus a few days before the visas were
supposed to be done, so they're canceled the tour, which
meant that we didn't have an exchange band, which meant

(34:58):
we couldn't get visas. And we found this out less
than a week before we well actually less than a
less than two days before we were supposed to golf
and go to New York. In New York, we were
supposed to have three days rehearsal at the former East

(35:19):
with with our requested gear, some of our own, but
some hired our requested gear, and we were supposed to
what we did buy or arrange for the front three
rows to be available for our press guests. The film

(35:40):
or East had had a deal where you could only
use cameras in the building up until a certain time,
and that was agreed upon so that our drummer, Billy
he was. He had an American and an English passport,
so he didn't have a problem. He got his visa

(36:01):
and on the Tuesday morning before we were supposed to play,
he flew to to the States, um as I remember it.
When we eventually managed to meet up again, he told
us that he had a limousine, came up from the airport,

(36:21):
drove into a hotel in Manhattan and settled him into
his room. The driver gave him his room number and said,
I'm I'm for you at any time, day or night
you want to go somewhere, you want to do something,
just give me a call and I'll be there in
ten minutes. So Billy says great because his room, tries

(36:46):
to relax as Jed lagged a bit freaked out because
he's by himself and where God knows where. He doesn't
know where we are, but at this point and so
he said in the after half an forty minutes and
decides he's going to go out, so it calls up
the driver. The driver says, no problem, meet me outside

(37:06):
the front in ten minutes. Billy goes down waiting. There's
a guy standing along the pavement from him, also looks
like he's waiting for something. A car pulls up, two
guys jump out, run across to the guy that's standing
there to billion nice hmendous stomach. Okay, this is this

(37:29):
is not the good news for Billy goes back to
his his room where he stays pretty much for the
for the remaining three days until we turn up. So
that that was that's his story. Dave says to us, Okay,
we've been refused visas. So we applied, but we're refused.

(37:53):
Um And says we'll go to Canada. We'll go to
Toronto and get visas there. They won't know that we've
been turned down. Here, it'll be it'll be easy. So
we get on the first flight to Toronto, check into
a hotel, go down to the American Embassy and fill
in the forms for visas to the United States. And

(38:16):
there's a question on the forms that says, have you
ever been refused a visa to the United States from
any country? So I think I got there first and
said today, what do we do about this question? Dave?
He says, just say no. So I said no, we
all did that. We filled them inside them off, took
them up to this guy who who was an all American.

(38:40):
That's that's what I'll say about him. He took them.
He didn't like us. We had long hair. And you know,
this was then. It's different from very different from now. Um.
He took them and it was lunchtime. He said, come
back after lunch and you're you know, you'll have your papers.

(39:02):
So when we went back, we we got called the
same guy. He said, you guys think I'm that we're
crazy here. I've got a million dollar computer behind me
that tells me that you were refused visas to the
United States just a day ago in London. And we

(39:22):
said yeah, mumblement, And he said and I so I
remember this, this is this is a quote. You guys
want to go to the US of A. You got
no chance, At which point he threw our papers at
us and we left told between the legs and oh dear,

(39:43):
what do we do now? So then we all went
back to the hotel. We had a day visa to
stay in Canada, so we didn't go out. But these
chances are we run into a policeman and get caught
for crossing the road where we shouldn't or something like that,
and they'd want to see our papers, and then we

(40:04):
get extradited. So we stayed in the hotel while Dave
went out with our record company are Canadian record company
guy who was great, supplied all kinds of we said
we needed were pretty much eight burgers and watched our trek.
You m in the hotel and Dave was out trying UM.

(40:30):
So I believe I believe a senator or someone high
up handled the deal for us, got us waved through.
And so on Friday, so the first gig, first set
was Friday evening at seven o'clock. So Friday, just before lunch,

(40:54):
we turned up at the American Embassy, still in the
forms say yes to the dread question and hand them
in to the same guy who's not happy because he
knows that he's got to pass us. Um and he
really doesn't like this now. Um. So at half past

(41:14):
twelve he comes out from from the back and puts
a pile of papers which looked very much like our
three visa application forms with our passports on the on
the counter in front of him, and then goes to lunch.
He comes back about hot past one and calls us

(41:38):
over and pushes the papers and visa to us without
saying a word. We take them, say thank you very much, uh,
and and go. And in that hour a ground crew
strike on the northeast coast in the United States is

(41:58):
IS is announced and there are no flight to or
from um. So we hire a private little plane five
Caesar Cessna. I think it was flown by a Japanese
Canadian who who was an agile flyer. I'll say he

(42:23):
he threw the plane across the sky quite a lot. Um.
I have a problem. I still have the same problem
as when I go up in a plane and my
ears pot they don't put, you know, the other way
around when I come down. So I came down. I
can't here very much. Um, and they hurt. So this

(42:43):
was I don't know what are their little planes fly
up for eight thousand feet so they were popping both
ways all the time. And by the time I got
I got well on the way. We landed at Buffalo
and we said, well, what's happening and he says, okay, passports.
So we all got our passports out, our precious visas

(43:06):
in them and hand them over. He said, no, I
don't need this. I just say, you're American businessmen going home.
So we didn't need a visa. As it turns out
there's a back door in to Toronto. Um. But so
so then we took off and then we landed and
I'm this is guesswork now, but I'd say around six o'clock,

(43:29):
five thirties, six o'clock in some field. It was just
a field. It didn't seem like an airport at all,
but but we landed in it. There were there were
four limousines, one each, one for day, one for the
three of us. My guy I got in. He was
playing the best music I've I've ever heard, handed me

(43:54):
the requirements and and drove drove me in in in
the key with the others a little limousine cavalcade. Um.
And the thing that struck me, the great thing that
struck me was that the DJ playing the music, which

(44:16):
was or you know, all of the good stuff Van Morrison,
Motown Hendrick. Yeah, just really good, properly music. And he
didn't say where. The DJ didn't say a word until
the half hour came, at which point he said, you
just listened to and read out all the names, and

(44:38):
then started playing the next half hours worth of music,
which was in this country DJs, you know, they seem
to think that the radio show is is their vehicle
to stardom in some way. You know, it's not. It's
not to do and play music for people. And they

(45:00):
always talk over the outros where some of the quite
often some of the good stuff is sit sitting and refers. Anyway,
I thought he it was great to hear that. Um.
I think by the time we got in the dressing
room it was quarter to seven, so we put on
our stage clothes, got the guitars out and went and

(45:22):
played the first sect, which was not very good, very disjointed.
I'd hear anything, so I had to read people's lips
to see where we were in the songs some of
the time it was it was not good. The second show,
I don't know what I say. The next thing we

(45:43):
did was we went to the to the dressing room
and Nick went downstairs to to watch, and the rest
of the stayed up there. And after ten minutes and
so Nick turned up and said, Okay, you've all got
to come down and watch this. This is astonishing. So

(46:06):
we're all pretty shattered by this point, but we all
went downstairs and watched Dan Morrison, who was blindingly good.
The band were blindingly good, and he was two. It
was amazing, and that one show was enough where we
saw him three more times, but that one show was

(46:29):
enough change our minds about quite a lot of stuff
in the what we wanted to be like, what we
wanted to play, what was important to us um and
then we played. We played the other shows. The the
press had a dreadful time. The plane was late because

(46:50):
it had problems taking off from Shannon Airport. It had
to be fixed that he throw, and those days that
he throw if he went past the passport check. There
was only one thing and that was a bar which
when as the plane was four hours late, the press
utilized AH quite a lot. Uh. Then they they took

(47:17):
off and developed landing geve fault and had to land
at Shannon Airport and the only thing there is a bar.
They only do two types of drink or then they
needed two jobs and that was guinness and an Irish whiskey.
And so when they finally managed to to make the
journey and land late at this point at Kennedy, they

(47:42):
were pretty wasted bunch. And because they were late, there
was the plane was supposed to arrive sort of midday
ish where the traffic wouldn't be too bad, but instead
they arrived just as the as the Russia started it.
So I think they were eighteen stretched limas to take

(48:09):
them to the to the hotel potentially, but ended up
to the to the gear uh and sitting police on motorbikes.
There was a lot of sirens and stuff going on
UM and I think three of them crashed and didn't
make it, and and the ones that did while half

(48:33):
of them went back to the hotel because they were
so shattered they just wanted to get to bed, so
they never even came. By the time they arrived, the
camera UM rule had had come into operation. No cameras
after a certain time. They were after a certain time. Um,

(48:55):
they'd opened the doors, so the public went in there
when no nobody's sitting in the front three rows. So
the public just used went and sat in the front
three roads. So when the press arrived, their place at
the front had been had been taken. There were lots
of camera men, so they were refused entry with their cameras.

(49:18):
I know a couple of them had their cameras smashed
with complained and and they who ever got in, I
don't know how many. How many of them did get in,
they just had to sit where they could find a seat.
And we knew that they were they were there, but

(49:40):
we also knew that there had been a problem that
had not been kept away from us, and so we
went We went out not knowing what, you know, who
was there, what was going to happen the front three
rosere people or are they just people? And so we
we saw they were just people. Um, And that was

(50:01):
the worst of the four gigs that we played. We
were stiff, I'm together and really really nervous. Uh. The
fourth gig was it was all over. So he really
didn't care anymore and really played quite well, and and

(50:22):
things things like occasional solos or or question answer bits
in the in the music were applauded people. Some people
whooped and kind of thing. And we used to do
us a little country is song called rock and Roll Women,
which is which was humorous um, and people laughed, so

(50:48):
it went. It went much better. Um. When we got back,
we spent another day and a half I think, taking
photographs and stuff, and Rumson turned up again. We went
to is Riker's Island. Not allowed. Yeah, you're not allowed
to go there. We didn't know you weren't allowed, and

(51:08):
just drove on there and hung around and took pictures stuff,
and the police came. And there's a great photo of
that that Dave has of him with his with his
one hand on his head talking to a New York
policeman who's got his hand on his gun. Um. And

(51:32):
and you know they were going to haul us off
until they found out the a that we were English
and be that we were a pop band and so
knew nothing of not being allowed on Writer's Island, and
they said, hey, that's called you got a new records.
So yeah, um, but that was Dave again. Dave put

(51:58):
in a situation where his band were out to be
arrested at gunpoint, um and turning it all good within
ten minutes. It was he was so good at that. Okay,

(52:18):
So despite the debarcle, you end up making five records
as Brimley Shots. Okay, how do you ultimately call it?
Quit there and go to work with Graham Parker? Well,
the two are not are not are not aligned in
any way that their separate things. So the band Van

(52:41):
quick Nick called it. And you know, I was quite
shocked at the time. Um, we'd lived together for nine
on five years and done everything together and been through
you know, what you could call hell and high water.

(53:02):
There was no violence involved, but we've we've been through
a lot of stuff. Um, And so I was, I
was surprised our own reflection, and I guess I shouldn't
have been really a bit. We've been treading water for
a year or so. Um. So so we broke up.

(53:28):
We didn't have anything. We were living in a rented
farmhouse and northwestern of London, and all we had was
our gear and we had a monster p A. So
we all took a piece and and went our our way. Um.

(53:51):
I took my family or we tried. We tried squatting
and got kicked out pretty quit and so I we
ended up again to stay with my parents. When you
say we are you married at this point? What was
going on? Married with two children? And what do you

(54:14):
living on stuff from? We have a long time and
we've had a place called the ox Fam Shop, which
is second hand for charity. Sure, so you could buy
you a pair of second hand jeans or a shirt
for fifty cents. Well, you know, we lived, we lived together,

(54:37):
and we had we had no money. All the money
went on the band going forward, and there were three
children living there and so some of the money went
to make sure that they were okay, and the rest
of the time we just carried on. And you get
to that point when in a band sometimes when what

(55:00):
you're doing is so that you can do the next
when you're earning money, so that you've got enough money
to go and do the next gig or the next
album or whatever. Um. Yeah, that's that's what we lived
and we lived on nothing. Okay, So you go back
to live with your you go back to live with
your parents. The band is broken up, Yeah, okay, So

(55:24):
how do you get yourself out of that hole. Um,
I didn't really to start with. Um Martin who who
lived with us in the big house in Northward. Um
he'd he'd he'd been, he'd roaded for us, uh and

(55:47):
left and formed a band called Ducks to Lucks. He
called me up and said, hey, you want to join
the Ducks. So I said, yeah, great, So I joined
Ducks Lucks, who are also a pup up and who
are different from us in that we were very very
laid back. We we played sometimes we played things purposefully

(56:08):
slow because the groove was better there. We wanted to
be That's what we were looking for. The Ducks, on
the other hand, played everything lightning fast. The drama was
could say one, two, three, four faster than anyone I've
ever I've ever heard. Um. So it was a bit
of a bit of a culture shot me. But um

(56:33):
and I think that was maybe two two and a
half months. And then they broke up, which made me
wonder what was the cause of something? But and then
and then after after a bit, so I had I
had virtually nothing. I had one guitar, a saxophone, and

(56:54):
so I played saxophone when my parents were out, and
and guitar whenever I could and wrote a few songs.
You know. It was just a musician living at home.
And then there was another phone call, which was Dave

(57:15):
Robinson who told me that he had he had a
studio that he was learning how to use. He had
a tube desk that had belonged to Decca Records, um.
And what his plan was was if any time he

(57:38):
heard of or heard a singer, songwriter or a musician
that he thought was worthwhile helping, he would invite them
two make a demo recording in his studio. That way
he would help them get a demo, he would help

(57:59):
them maybe get advanced to a record deal of some description.
And he'd learned how to uses his equipment. Is he'd
be an engineer as well as record producing person. And say,
he said, I have this guy, Um, he writes great songs.
I think you'd really like him. And so we're making

(58:22):
a demo and and then he said Martin and Bob
Bob Andrews from the from the Brens List and Martin
Belmont from Ducks there with us with two guys from
a reggae ban. And now I really can't remember that
I've been thinking about this. I can't remember the name,

(58:43):
but they've just broken up also, and that was Steve
Golding and Andrew Bodner, and so this is this is
how I remember I remember it. I'm not convinced that
everyone remembers this the same way. We've talked about it

(59:05):
more recently and we end up saying no, no, no,
that's not how it went at all. So so as
far as I remember, we went, we we went and
did these demo songs with Graham Parker. That that's who
it was. It was Grand Parce. So we met Graham Parker.
Martin might have met him earlier because he'd been Martin

(59:29):
lived as an open anchor, which was the pub where
Dave had his studio. Um, And as we were packing up,
I was thinking, oh, that went really well. That was
really good. That was good, good fun. Everybody got on
really well, So I said, I think. I said, well

(59:53):
that was good fun, wasn't it. And everybody's stilar to
me and said yeah, it was pretty good. So I said,
anyone found see you getting together and just to play
somewhere if we can find somewhere to play, anybody in
fancy noodling on some songs? So and everyone said yes.

(01:00:13):
So a little bit after that Martin who knew the
proprietors at Newland's Tavern which is in southeast London in
Peckham Uh, and they said, yeah, they had like a
function room, quite a large room as part of the pub.
UM and they said we could use the function room

(01:00:36):
in the afternoons where the pub was closed, with one proviser,
and that is if we ever formed a band and
did a gig, we do the first gig at their pub.
So we thought that was a pretty fair deal. So
we took us. So we started playing together for the
hell of it. Basically, we we played songs that we liked,

(01:00:59):
played songs any song that anybody wanted to sing. We've
played songs that we've written or we're trying to write. Um.
And for two three months I would say it went.
It was really good. We started to we call on
better and better all the time, and we were sort

(01:01:22):
of approaching the time where we probably could have could
have done a gig or some gigs had we wanted to,
but it never anybody because we were doing it because
we enjoyed it. UM. And then and then Day phoned
up again he's got a record deal for Graham based

(01:01:43):
upon the for three tracks, and the record company wanted
us to back him on the album and on touring.
So not wanting to be a band and not want
into tour or sign anything with anybody, we agreed that

(01:02:04):
we play on the album and do one tour and
that started at the end of and at the end
of nineteen seventy six, we've had thirteen days off as
far as I remember, its five or six tours of England,
one of Europe, two of the United States, and made

(01:02:29):
two albums and we're about to make the route what
was what was going to be the Rumor's first solo album. Okay,
let's talk about Graham Parker for a minute. You know,
he comes out. He's a phenomenon. Ironically, he's playing relatively
straight ahead music when the new wave and stiff records
and Elvis Costello becomes a thing. But the first two

(01:02:52):
records are phenomenon. I'm one of the few people who
enjoys listening to Heat Treatment more. Something I'm going through
has got a reggae a feel soul in the Maelstrom.
Did you feel that this was going to break big?
Did you? What was it like being inside the engine
because it's got a lot more publicity, a lot more

(01:03:12):
traction than Brinsley shots. Um. Yeah, so that the things
that you when you're on the road, that the things
about what's happening with the press and what's happening with
sales and the rest of it. You they're they're told

(01:03:36):
to you. But and they it's not that they go
in one ear and come out the other. It's just
that you're occupied because you're playing all the time. And
so if you've got any spare time to think about anything,
you listen to somebody else's music. But there's not very
much time to do that either, So I missed huge

(01:03:57):
chunks of music. But as I was playing all the time,
and so you you know, you get to hear that
things are going well and then they don't for some reason,
and you see people around you moving up. Um I don't.

(01:04:18):
I don't know if we made any potential hit records. Um,
at the time, I would have known what a hit
record was like. Um, I had I had two young
daughters that they they turned me onto Adam and the
Ants and a few bands from the early eighties. But yeah,

(01:04:44):
it time goes past and you do stuff, and some
of it works, some of it doesn't, and to me
that's pretty much. But it is out of your hands.
You can't influence it in in any or many ways.
So so you just go along and I guess if

(01:05:04):
you don't like it enough, you you go somewhere else.
But the overriding thing for me anyway, and I would
say for everybody in the band, is that we all
really like Graham Parker's songs and really enjoyed playing them.
And that's for me. That's good enough. Sending a whole

(01:05:29):
lot more money than I had been before of the Prinsidents.
So were you making any money? Yeah, a little bit
of money. I wouldn't have said that we were not rich,
but we got by. Okay. So you're on the road
essentially every day. How does that affect your marriage? Um?

(01:05:52):
We're okay? Now that are you still married to that? Bleay? Um,
we're together, let's put it that way. I gotta ask
what that means. It means that we're we're we're together
where we're happy together. Okay, But you made it sound

(01:06:13):
like but you're still married? Correct? Yes? No? No? Did
you get divorced and at some point you never you
never got married? Which one is it we were divorced,
recently divorced. Yeah, nothing to do with being in a band.

(01:06:38):
What causes a divorce at this stage of life? Goodness
only knows. I you know, I'm not a psychiatrist or
a psychologist, so I have no idea. I do know
one thing, and that is that UM. Being in a
relationship uh is is a deep thing if it's going

(01:07:02):
to work forever, um and can be hard. Work things
things out of your hand. Um, get in the way
of stuff. It's difficult, stop surprising. Ready? Is there a
third party involved? That's Noah, Okay, So let's go back

(01:07:28):
to Graham Parker. You work with Mutt Lane, who then
goes on to be considered one of the great record producers.
Reilly has success and in my phenomenal Did you realize
he had that level of talent at the time? No, No,
I didn't. And the bands, which is from Mercury to

(01:07:49):
hera staff, was that something you felt in the band? Um? Well,
you have to you have to remember that Graham Parker
as an entity other than the rumor. I know we
did everything together, but we were not the rumor, were
not signed um to anyone. We had We eventually had

(01:08:11):
a sorry, um A record deal with Arista as the rumor. Um,
so where where Graham went? So it it seemed like
the move from me Cree too Arista was a good idea.
But it's business stuff. I don't know. I have no idea. Okay,

(01:08:36):
So the band is not signed to the label, but
was just on everyday life. Because you're playing all these gigs,
is Graham separate from you or you feel that you're
all in it together? I, having having been in the
in the Brindles, being in the Brinslees changes, I want

(01:08:56):
to believe that you are in it all together. We
weren't ordering it together and so rightly or wrongly, that
was my my impression for philosophical idea of how it was.
That's what I didn't think about it a lot. I

(01:09:16):
just you just do what you do and and pretty
much what I did was as as if we were
all together. So I think that's how we were. Okay,
So hard does it end with the band in Graham? Um?
I think Graham came to a full stop. Um. I

(01:09:40):
think he was unhappy with with the way things were going. Um,
with the amount of money that we he and was
put into into touring and all the all the other stuff.
I think he needed to to stop for a while

(01:10:03):
and gather gather himself again and change things to to
he was not happy with. So it was it was
completely amicable. We just he just said, I'm I'm stopping
and you guys go do what you what you want

(01:10:26):
to do. Okay. The Graham peels off like a stage
of a rocket. Where does that leave you in the
Rumor and what happens there? Uh? The Rumor carried on
as a four piece without Bob andrews um And we
made we made another album, so that would be our

(01:10:50):
third album without Graham um And and we had to
make that twice. There was a record company thing that
that we had to obey a certain thing in a
in a contract which we didn't obey, and and so

(01:11:13):
we had we had a record that was released in
the in the UK, and then another version which so
we re recorded everything, which was released in the United States.
Which one was better? Well, they were, they were different. Actually,
we were talking about it the other day. One of

(01:11:34):
the songs is on it is have You Seen My Baby?
Which is a Randy Newman song. Uh, And Steve emailed
us all and said, I probably said, now I heard
all this, I think ours was better. Um, yeah, I
guess the the USA one was was better. It was

(01:11:57):
definitely it was definitely looser feeling. So how does it
grind to a halt with the rumor? Just it just
does stuff. You know, if you if you can't get
work that you can afford to do, or that is
is not what you want to be doing, then it
all it all stops, and and Steve and I carried

(01:12:20):
on playing. We played with Garland Jeffries, Um the band
played with Garden Jeffries. We supported and backed him um
and then later Steve and I went on to play
with him on another tour. Um and then and then

(01:12:43):
that stopped. And so that was the end of the
rumor and split up by then. Okay, but ultimately you
go straight you give up the music. How does that
tell me the far process there? Um? Well, getting back

(01:13:03):
a bit um. When Graham got himself together again and
made made another another his next album, I was in
New York converting our agents newly acquired loft building or
loft floor into a five room office. Did I did

(01:13:26):
all the the walls, all the electricity blurred, the ceilings,
all of that and made it into a pretty cool
office space. And while that was. While I was doing that,
I was I was staying with with Alan or agent

(01:13:47):
um And and Graham was looking for a guitar player.
He had the risk of the band All Americans um
And was looking for a guitar player. And they had
arranged long much and came up with with no one.
And Alan said, Brinsley's staying with me, and Graham said yeah, okay,

(01:14:10):
was he up for it? And so I had obviously said,
you know, if he asked, I'm up for it. Alan said, yes,
he's up for it. Graham, why didn't I think of that?
And so I got back playing. And then through the
eighties I played, made four albums, produced Mona, Lisa's sister
and Human Soul with him and so, and toured with

(01:14:36):
him UM. But in one I started very loosely working
fixing guitars and did one day a week at the
store UM, which I really enjoyed. They were really good
to me. They allowed me to go off and and
play on tours and make records. So I had spent

(01:14:58):
six months working with Graham and said months working in
this store fixing guitars, and that got busier and busier
until I was working five six days a week. UM
and then in nine late I think we were we
were touring and in America. I think it was Lost

(01:15:21):
A and LX that I was. I was walking to
the plane perfectly, okay. I was not freaked out or anything,
not worried. And I don't really do that anymore. I
don't don't recall. But they used to put yellow and
black take a big wide yellow and black tape across

(01:15:43):
the floor where you were going from one area to another.
And I reached this tape, which was at the top
of the the shoot what are those calls the shoots
that you walked down to plays gateway. I was walking towards.
I got to it and stopped and I looked down.

(01:16:03):
I wasn't even looking. I just stopped and I looked down.
Oh that's interesting. There's that yellow and black tape. Went
to put my foot across it, and I couldn't, so right,
I was perplexed. I turned around, walked away, came back
at speed, stopped, dried for about ten minutes, and stopped

(01:16:24):
every time I ran at it stopped. And I was
standing there and they were calling last call for the flight,
and our keyboard player, who had a tendency to leave
everything until the very last moment, walked up behind me,
put his hands on my shoulder and said, friends, thanks
for waiting for me, and pushed me across the line,

(01:16:46):
at which point I walked down to the plane. I
had a very pleasant flight up to I think it
was to Oregon, um, and that was the last flies
apart from flying back to England on that tour. And
I got someone to push me over the line, and

(01:17:07):
I s that's how I got on the plane and
came back to England. And then for from then until
I didn't fly, and I knew that I couldn't get
on an airplane again. Um, and then so when when
I that sort of backed it up for me. Really

(01:17:29):
I couldn't do it anymore? Wait wait, wait, wait wait,
what was going on there? In retrospect twenty years you
couldn't fly? Did you just have a pianic attack? How
did you get over it? I didn't know what. I
didn't need to get over it because I never got
on a plane. I was pushed twice and was okay, well,
well you haven't met but you started to get on

(01:17:49):
planes again? Correct? Yes? So how did you do that? Um?
I went to the doctors and said, I've got to
I've got to fly. I have a problem getting on
the plane. Um, I've got to fly to the States.
And so I was wondering if there's anything you could
give me that would would arm me enough to get

(01:18:12):
on the plane. And she very kindly said, just have
a couple of bottles, a couple a couple of glasses
of red wine and you'll be fine. So Martin said
he would help. Martin's not very happy flying either, So
I thought, this is going to be fun. Someone who
doesn't like flying with somebody who can't get or a plane. Um.

(01:18:33):
And we got to We got to Heathrow Terminal five,
which was very pleasant. Oh walked around for a bit
and then saw that it was time we could go
and check in. So we went to the check in desk,
presented our passports and papers and every saying tickets and
the guy said, ah, I'm very sorry to have to

(01:18:54):
tell you that your plane has been delayed. So I
so I said, so I'd had the two glasses of
wine by now, so I I laughed and said, and
so what are you doing? And he said, We're getting
another one, and and I said, and that one will

(01:19:14):
be all right. Um. And so they spluttered a bit
and he said, yes, sir, that one would be fine. Uh,
And and it was. But um, the wine had taken
its effect. I needed more. And so I don't remember

(01:19:37):
an awful lot about what happened after that, but I
overswine and and and have flown quite quite a reasonable
amount since. And uh enjoyed it and not had a problem.
Do you still drink the two glasses of wine? Absolutely? Yes? Yeah, okay,

(01:20:03):
So tell me about the period when you couldn't fly
what you were doing. I fixed guitars in the store.
I branched out of my my by myself a couple
of times. I got so this is this is about.
From the moment that I heard Apache, the only thing
that I was really in love with in terms of

(01:20:26):
things were guitars, electric tiars. UM completely fascinated by them.
I loved I like looking at them and pouring over them.
It's a it's a boyhood fascination that never never went away.
So to be able to work on them all day

(01:20:46):
long and be paid for it, and be able to
play them while you're fixing them and learning about why
they go wrong and how they go wrong and how
to fix them was was fascinating and I'm lucky to
have to have been able to do that, to be
with guitars, the thing that I love all my life. Okay,

(01:21:08):
I have a good Gibson Acoustic s J. My mother
left it in the cross space. It's got some mold
on the top. Is that something you could fix? I'd
have to as as all repairs say, I would have
to see it. But potentially yes. Okay, well I'm asking
really because you're in the UK and I'm in the US,

(01:21:28):
and we're not going to actually do this. Um, you
can do things besides the trust rod and adjusting strings.
You can work on the whole instrument. Yeah, I'm not.
I'm not so good inside acoustic guitars that that, you know,
fixing struts and things like that. That's um, that's that's difference.

(01:21:50):
But refretting, fret dressing, as I call it. Um, that's
that's a complicated thing. So don't it do strange things?
And so if a guitar needs setting up, it also
might need a refret, which is a big job and

(01:22:12):
has to be done carefully and accurately. Um. But the
main The main thing is is that I I because
I've been a guitar player for so long, I kind
of intuitively know how a guitar is supposed to feel.
When when I'm during the final part of setting up

(01:22:34):
a guitar, which is which do with the nut and
the trust rod and the action, there seems to be
a sweet spot, and I am prepared to work until
I find the sweet spot if it's there, and find
her ball. That that's my my thing. I'm interested in

(01:22:56):
making guitars feel like guitar players think they should. Okay,
my understanding is a professional of your caliber would not
play a guitar off the rack, that they would immediately
send it to someone like you to set it up.
Is that true? Um? Yeah, I think, Um, I haven't

(01:23:22):
I haven't tried all of them, but yes, in general,
there isn't a There isn't a guitar, so there are
specialist makers, but in the run of the mill guitars
that there isn't one that wouldn't benefit from at least
a set up and probably possibly a fret dress in
a setup. And just to be clear, a setup would

(01:23:43):
entail without the threat that would entail adjusting the trust
rod so that the neck was true as true as
it can be. Um. They the action and the nutcuts correctly,
the nut slots but correctly. UM, and adjustments to make

(01:24:03):
sure that it plays in tune all the way up
to next. Okay, is this lucrative business? Um? If you
were doing it for yourself, yes, if you were doing
it in a store, um not. Wages are not fabulously

(01:24:26):
I So you would go back and forth being independent?
What was that about? Um? The independent stuff was bigcause
while I was I was getting involved in fixing guitars,
also got interested in our amplifiers. And at one point,
quite accidentally, I stumbled across a little part of a

(01:24:48):
circuit dar fire circuit that made things made them sound, um,
very comfortable. That helped you, made you want to carry
on playing. Um. And I've talked to a couple of
friends who are amplifier you know, proper designers and repairers

(01:25:11):
who know what they're talking about. Uh. And one in
particular was really interested in it. Pointed out to me
why that happened electronically, um and and pointed out to
me that no, no electronics person would do that. But
actually it just seems to be no reason not to.

(01:25:34):
It works and it sounds very good. Um, So I
was I attempted to start making um amplifiers. I came
to a halt that I couldn't find anybody who would
print out a face plate, you know, with base, middle,
treble and volume and the name written across it that

(01:25:57):
you would stick to the front um. It would cost
two and a half grand. Whether you wanted one or
he wanted two thousand or four thousand. The setup work
was was what cost the money, and the making of
it was just the cost of a bit of plastic
or word and a bit of machining. UM. And that

(01:26:19):
kind of stopped me. And then Graham phoned up instead,
we're doing it again, And so I stopped being a
guitar repairer and an AMP build a modifier. There's quite
a lot of my modified apps out there in this country. No,
I did do quite quite a lot, and some one
in particular is in a in a studio where apparently

(01:26:44):
all the guitar players that go there use that AMPR. Okay,
so what does it look like that you work with
Graham Um? Graham phoned up. I was the last person
he phoned, and he said he said that I know
you're going to say no because you can't get on
an aeroplane, but I'm going to try any anyway, and

(01:27:07):
everybody wants me to so um. And he explained what
he was what he was doing, which was to make
another Grand Park in the Rumor record and he'd love
for me to be involved, and could I get on
a plane and I said absolutely, no problem at all,

(01:27:29):
no worries, just tell me when I'll be there. Great,
And so we had a chat about it a little
bit and then I put the phone down and sat
back and talk shit, I've just said I'll get over
an aeroplane, and and I did, and it was all fine. Okay.
So at this point in time, okay, let me ask

(01:27:53):
you difficult why you're a luthier. Are you continuing to
play music yourself? Yeah, well, if you're fixing it, so
you need to play it for ten fifteen minutes before
you start. You played the fifteen minutes afterwards, played for
a couple of hours if nobody's Hastley hastling you. So
I played every day, probably more than I played when

(01:28:14):
I was on the road, where you don't get much
time for it. Apart from the gig. Uh and and
later I used to hang around in sound checks as
long as I could. Um. Yeah, So I played a lot,
and at some point I started writing songs as well,
which I hadn't done for quite a long time. Then

(01:28:36):
did you play any bands in that era? No? Well,
I had played bass with a friends band. They're bass
player left and they couldn't find another one, so I
said I'll played bass with so I I started playing
bass and we played a gig. It was just really
I love playing bass. Um. Okay, So you recently put

(01:28:56):
out a new album. It's this late date actually in
the crazy world we live in music now, where the
biggest household name Max, put out records in there immediately stiff.
What motivated you to make a record now? Um? I
think what what motivated me finally was that the one

(01:29:22):
that the tune that I recorded to start with turned
out the experience of it and and it itself turned
out so well that I wanted to carry on. I
had more songs, and and I thought, you know, why not,
this will cost me a little bit of money, but

(01:29:43):
actually it would be fun and and and it was.
But it started with James halliwell, who played with us
on Mona Lisa sister. It was a keyboard player. He's
got this little studio off in in Richmond, and he
came to one of the Grand Parker of the Rumor

(01:30:06):
gigs in London Shepherds Push Empire, and came backstage and
said high and said, you know, we're just talking. So
what are you? What are you doing? Sort of doing
this and writing a few songs? He said, what if
you want to come and record one? I've got little studio.
Why did you come down? And so I did and

(01:30:27):
recorded a song which I wanted to record for a
relative's wedding as a wedding present, and which we did
and and carried on. Both said. We both looked at
each other after we've played it back in its mix form,
said well that's pretty good, isn't it. Should we do

(01:30:49):
some more? And he said, yeah, let's do some more.
We could make an EP and before we knew it,
we'd made an ill okay if you made it in
his studio. Essentially the cost was lower, non existent. Uh no, um,
I got what's what we call mates rate, but pay

(01:31:12):
you paid, But there's a record company. The record company
reimburse you. They just releasing the record. Um, well, if
we're talking about Tangles, so I was talking about the
first album. Okay, we'll continue the narrative. You make make
the first record, but you put the first record out yourself. Yeah,
that's right. And sold it where I where I could.

(01:31:34):
There was want to with Graham, sold sold someone that
a Japanese guy called me up and wanted two. Yeah,
I just told it where I could. I still have
a few left, um, and I haven't broken even on that.
That's the second album Tangled, that I paid for and

(01:31:57):
it's selling few and so I will get reimbursement at
some point for some of it. But as I think,
we don't. We really don't do this for the money
because because it's not it's not there. It's very difficult. Um.
But we enjoy it. So what was the motivation for Tangled? Um? Well,

(01:32:23):
mainly because it it started because there was that there
are songs that UM as as I as I was recording, unexpected,
there was I was writing more songs, and so some
of the songs that I wrote while we were making
it UM seemed to be better, better suited to some

(01:32:47):
of the other songs that were already there. So we
ended up with three four songs that were, you know,
on their way to being finished. Um. And so there
was the beginnings of another album, and I had more
songs ready, so we just carried on and and now

(01:33:11):
we've carried We've carried on and Tangled Is is out there,
and I've got three or four songs almost finished and
eight ten songs written. Um. Some of them have just
got basic demo tracks. Some of them are almost finished.

(01:33:33):
So I have another album. It's it's not like it's
not like I'm making albums. It's that I'm just recording songs.
And at some point you have enough for an album,
so you put it out. Now are you playing live?
I am not at the momentum. I'm afraid. I don't.

(01:33:54):
I trust very little about our government and what it's saying.
I think it So I think today's COVID infection rate
went up to over forty five thousand. It's been forty
five or above for the last two weeks. No one, well,
the only people may wearing masks are doing it voluntarily.

(01:34:17):
So you can go into supermarket and half the people
are unmasked. There's obviously hundreds of thousands of people in
this country with it. People who have been double vaccinated
have died, have caught it and again and died. Um,
so I don't think it's safe. So prior to COVID,

(01:34:41):
were you were you playing live? Um? No? When I
was playing with Graham, and pretty much after after that,
I was sort of mid mid doing things and COVID
came as a as a rise, and I was lucky

(01:35:02):
to be able to actually finish Tangled because that it
got really difficult. Um, we're traveling in the studio. Okay,
when was the last time you played with Graham? Um? Five?
I would say five years ago now for four to

(01:35:23):
five years. And is that the last chapter or you
never know? Oh sorry, is that the last chapter? Or
might you play with him again? Um? Yeah, I don't.
I don't know. I'd be very happy to play with
him again if he's up for it. Um. And all

(01:35:43):
these people that have gone through, Bobby Andrews and Nick Low, etcetera.
Have you mainteam connection with all of them? Um no?
I I think if I've talked to Nick a dozen
times since the Prinses broke up, that's about about it. Um.

(01:36:09):
Bob Yeah, more more obviously because he was in the
rumor and then and then in the Rumor a second time. Um,
when we did it again. Um. So I'm in touch
with members of the Rumor and Graham. Um okay if

(01:36:35):
this late D do you get any royal dues or
any you know, public performance moneies? Yeah, I get there's
a great a great company or a company organization called PPL,
and they sent me check enough to live on, not
enough to live or no, But I don't. I don't

(01:36:55):
know where it comes from. Sometimes it's it's what i'd
call quite a lot of money, but sometimes it's sunny,
it's like a fifty pounds, and sometimes it's a thousand
or two. Um. But yeah, you can't, you can't live
live on that. So I'm officially a retired person. Um

(01:37:19):
so ah so I am working very very little, really
working more on songwriting and and arranging things in my
head ready for the studio, hopefully going into the studio
again in a week's time. UM to record at least one,

(01:37:43):
if not to song new songs. Um. If you're getting
this limited money from from your past work, what are
you living on? Um? Just just money that I have. UM,
I in writ it. A little um money comes, A

(01:38:05):
little money comes. In I seem to be able to
balance the books fairly reasonably. It's it's not I'm not
I'm not wealthy or anything. And and really I want
to do what I what I like doing and for
as long as I can. So well, you've saved money

(01:38:25):
from your musical. You know a lot of musicians when
they get to the end, they didn't save any money.
So you save money from your musical endeavor. Um, Yeah, no,
I think. I think what I inherited is what keeps
me above water doing doing what I do. But I

(01:38:45):
seem to be able to go along and and make
ends meet, um, without being hugely successful or wealthy. Okay,
I'm just gonna ask. In America we have social security.
I assume you have the equivalent in the UK. It's
not enough money to live on here. What's the situation

(01:39:07):
in the UK? Um? We have we have a pension,
a national pension scheme. So everybody's does that. If they work,
they pay every week into it. And at the end
of when you stop working, when you when you retire,
when you reach the official retirement age. Um, you get

(01:39:31):
paid every your pension, your state pension, every every month.
And is it enough to live I mean, you've inherited money,
but for the average person, isn't enough to live on? Um,
I would say just, but I think I think most
people have has something else other than I think I

(01:39:53):
think most people who who who you wouldn't regard really poor.
And we have a lot of important role in this country.
But but everybody seems to have enough to get by
and go on holiday. Okay, let me ask you about
a couple of tracks, because I mean, I did buy
the first first room around, I did see it at

(01:40:13):
the Roxy. But going into some of this Graham Parker stuff,
can you tell me the process of writing something I'm
going through? Because it has that white reggae feel. How
does that a song like that come together? That's that's
the one of Graham songs I know. But did he
come with that groove? Um? Yeah, I think I think so.

(01:40:38):
He usually comes with with with a groove and playing
acoustic guitar, and he would also he would also play
little chord changes, tiny little things that. Okay, more than
occasionally I've cotton donto and used um as a as

(01:41:01):
a tune or a riff in the song, like like
nobody hurts you that the guitar part that I play
is based upon something he was doing on on rhythm
on a rhythm part, so I'd hear that. Um, yeah,
I think, I think. You know, it's a broad range

(01:41:23):
of things. Sometimes he has he has no idea and
we we would we would kind of arrange it veen us. Um.
Sometimes he would have a lot of idea and and
we'd step back and and try to, you know, put
what he was talking about into a band scenario. Fool's

(01:41:46):
Gold on the same album, the Heat Treatment album, it
starts with almost a waterfall flourished sound. Who would come
up with that or who did come up with that?
I don't remember. I mean, was it always Graham or
sometimes the producer? Um? I think, well the producers, so

(01:42:09):
that there are different producers who all work differently. We
had a we've had a few odd things with some
of the producers that we we worked with. Um M,
I don't know that the sound that you're you're you're
talking about, Um, it's a long long time since I

(01:42:32):
listened to fulls Gold. It's not that long ago that
I played it. But what are your two favorite Graham
Parker and the Rumor tracks Love Gets You Twisted and
watched them Man come Down. Okay, you have you must
have been asked that before, because you have the question.
You have the answers right away now, I've I haven't

(01:42:54):
been I haven't been asked it. Well, I've been asked
it indirectly, and so I don't. But those are my
two favorite tracks, and I've just recorded what I've recorded,
Love Gets You Twisted and I'm I'm parked recorded Watch
the Moon Come Down. So they are for there in
my head at the moment. Right. So, if your musical career,

(01:43:17):
what are you most proud of? I've been asked this
before as as well, so as a as a guitar player. UM,
the solo on This Town, which is on max, Um,
the solo on what is that song? Right going to

(01:43:43):
I think of the song as selfish because that's how
I how I wrote it. As a track on Unexpected,
the solo on that, and the solo on Stranded on
UM the work. So proud of being in the rumor

(01:44:04):
and proud to have worked with Graham, I'd say happy,
more than proud. I'm happy to have done those things.
And yeah, all the day to day stuff that that
you do when you're on the road, helping each other

(01:44:27):
through various things, and and proud to have built an
amplifier not quite from scratch, but pretty much from scratch
that everybody that goes into that studio plays. That's Ralph
Salmon's Studio's Drauma who played on Unexpected Um. He's he's um,

(01:44:50):
you know, quite a big trauma. He's got a little studio.
People go and record stuff there, and all the guitar
players love this. This EMPLATHYZ song. That's it. I'm I'm
proud to do that kind of stuff. Okay, Brinsley, I
think we've hit the high point of your career. I
have a million more questions. Maybe well maybe one time

(01:45:13):
when we're face to face. You're quite the storyteller. I
want to thank you so much for doing this and
hopefully you'll have continued success with Tangled. Thank you very much.
Been good talking to you. It's been nice to talk
to somebody who who knows the music industry and and

(01:45:33):
bands and players. Like I said, thanks so much. Till
next time. This is Bob left Sex