David Fishof

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob Left podcast. My yesterday
is promoter entrepreneur David Fishel David, Bob, Thanks, yeah, great
to be here. Okay, winter shows coming back, I think October.
I'm hoping that the Scorpions will return to Vegas so
I can do a camp there. But you know, I'm

(00:30):
still scared. I think it's gonna have to be two
thousand twenty two. I think the to feel us, to
us to feel secure that we're gonna be in a
in a situation. Um, I think that's gonna have to
be next year. Okay, you're planning to do this in
the fall. Have you sold tickets for it? No? I
didn't want to go on sale because the last thing

(00:51):
I want to do is hold people's money. So, uh,
I've just been I was really supposed to be in
May and um, but no, I had Bright and White
before ovid I stopped. I didn't go and sale. Okay,
so how have you ridden out this year long process? So, Bob,
I started these master classes in June because I wanted
to recreate at least part of what I did at

(01:13):
Rock and when I do at Rocketball Fantasy Camp. So
I asked many of these artists if they would come
on Zoom and I went to a universe part Ticketmaster
and was selling tickets or people to come and be
able to communicate with these artists. And uh I started
with Mark Farner from Grant Funk, and I had Roger
Doultrey on and the band Sticks and the Scorpions, and

(01:35):
you know, these artists decided they were going to do
this and give the money to their crews and uh
so it's been fun we did. We've done a hundred
fifty of them. Okay, if you've done a hundred and fifty,
how many different acts or that is that? I would
say we did about a hundred different acts, okay. And
if you missed the live performance, can you watch the
can you buy a ticket for the rerun? So I

(01:56):
haven't done anything there yet. We have this amazing library.
I'm just deciding what to do with it, and uh um,
you know, the the artists and my partners on it.
So I'm gonna confer with many of them, but I
plan to do something with the with the information because
these classes Bob unlike, these rock stars coming on usually
doing interviews for records, and they're selling their their live gigs.

(02:19):
They're giving away information and they're giving their sharing information
that you can't get anywhere else. I mean, whether it's
Alice Cooper talking about stuff or Roger Daltree. And uh,
you know, I've been blown away by all these classes.
You know, we've we've advertised the sixty minutes. They've all
lasted ninety to two hours, um, and they've been really

(02:40):
great and motivate and great motivation while we're going through COVID. Okay,
how much is a ticket to one of these master classes?
So the classes start um, and they've gone up to uh,
you know, I charged five hundred for Roger adult because
we're giving all the money to his charity. So twenty

(03:00):
five people get get to spend five dollars to ask
Roger a question, but most of them been a hundred
dollars and um, and you know you get to really
talk to these people and get some great info. So
how many people are at each master class? So you know,
we've altened it up to twenty five people, um, and

(03:21):
they come in from all around the world. Um. And
now we were increasing it to a few hundred where
people can just watch them and uh, so you know,
you buy a ticket for twenty five dollars, you can
watch them um, and then someone who's paying, you know,
twenty hundred dollars they get to really talk to the artist. Okay,
you buy the ticket on ticket Masters. That correct, Yes,

(03:44):
that that I have to ask a question, what about
the fees? So the fees that you know, were they charged?
The person pays above the fees, you know whatever, the
fees are above UM. But there there, you know, there there.
I started inventive and I started on and they're all
the same. The only reason I asked, if one buys
a concert ticket, there's a kick back to the building.

(04:09):
There's a kick back to the promoter in addition to
the fee to Ticketmaster, which is how it makes its money.
So I would think inherently the fee. Would you would
negotiate a lower fee on something like this? I did? Did?
They did give us a lower fee, and I don't
want it. Didn't take any money from him, you know,
I think it's really um an opportunity for I want

(04:30):
to take at Master because I wanted them to help me.
My goal is for them to go to the concert
um goer that they have the records of and to basically, Hey,
you know you can't go to this depth leopard concept,
but you can watch Joe elliott. I was hoping that
was going to happen, but you know, we'll see what happens.
They've been really slow during COVID. Okay, that begs the question,
how are people aware of these master classes? What is

(04:54):
the marketing? The marketing is basically been the artist promoting
it on his site. And I have a two hundred
thousand list of people over twenty five years who wanted
to go to rock and roll Face camp. Where have
gone to camp? And Uh, people come to camp and
you know they they're they're coming into it and they're
seeing it and the word about and how frequently do

(05:15):
you have a master class. I've been doing him three
or four nights a week, and uh, and you know
now we're I took off a little bit during January
because the Super Bowl a football, but we're going back.
We're starting again. We're starting up with Roger on February seven,
and um, we got Eddie Kramer's gonna mix a song.
You're gonna be able to watch Eddie Kramer mixed a

(05:37):
song live. You know you'll be able to sive in
a song. I had Desmond Child last month doing three
nights part time class or three night class where you
got to send in your song to Desmond and he
would basically took six songs and uh he gave everyone
an hour an hour and a half and you got
to watch him um comment on the song. And he
was brilliant. I mean, some lady writes since he has

(06:00):
I found love from Tennessee to Texas to the Alamo.
He said, lady, we lost the Alamo. So he was
he was great. He's I think he spent he spent
three hours, three nights um doing that. So where side says,
you know, bigger classes. Okay, the Desmond is quite a
character and he has his opinions. He's great, but let's

(06:23):
talk about someone who's not inherently a songwriter like Desmond.
That's how he made his bones, although he's also a performer.
What is the format of the class. So I have
a young ladynamed Britt Lightning who was the lead guitarist
and ViOn and she's been the host of all these classes.
So I wanted someone who you know, knows music and

(06:43):
and she's been you know, starts off the class with
asking him a few questions and then we we we
have these people come on zoom, we we un mute them,
we get them to ask the question. And it's until
crazy the way these people, you know, they stay up
all night from London and they stay up from Chicarta.
I mean they've and people come from all around the
world to ask their their favorite person a question. I

(07:04):
mean Eric Johnson, Uh, he was getting a guy from
India who you know, he's done three classes and and
it's been great, and you know, there's and he got
to talk to the artists and the artists and you
could say a load of them and it's really been great.
It's been great. And it's not you know, like you said,
it's not a mat and greed. It's it's not a cameo.
You're gonna learn music, okay. And to what degree are

(07:26):
these people musicians are fan boys so to speak, they're musicians.
They're musicians and their vocalists and the young young ladies
have come on who and young people who idolize these people,
you know, Joey Kramer, you know, it's amazing that but
the house of people that came on for Tom Hamilton,
Joey Kramer we're teenagers who their parents listen to the bands,

(07:48):
so you know they wanted to ask questions and do
you listen and participate whether you talk or not in
every master class or you know you can't pay attention
to everything. Sorry, And I love Bridge, he does it all.
I listen to most of them. I put her on mute.
I start eating dinner. Um, I gotta tell you they've
been so I've learned so much because again these artists

(08:12):
are sharing materials about their careers and really trying to
help people. So you know your friend Chef Gordon, he's
done three of them, he sold out the most. Um,
he's sold out the fastest. People want to ask questions. Hey,
Chef Covid, you know what do I do with my career?
I've seen agents come on. It's it's compuite interesting, Okay.

(08:34):
And you're talking about all of them that you mentioned
are essentially doing it for charity or any of them
doing it for their own wallet, irrelevant of their cruise.
Of course they're doing it for their own wallet, and
someone are doing for the wallet. Chef gave his money
to I think I wrote a check out to the
Maui Food Bank. Um. But yes, the artists. You know what,
many of the artists are doing it for their own

(08:56):
for their own you know, because uh, they're not making money. Now, okay,
So the artists you've had on the master classes, these
are all artists you have had a previous relationship with. No,
That's what's been interesting. Many of them are started that way.
But then I've reached out to the the guitar player
from Wilco and uh, you know, he was great, He

(09:16):
did a class and never met him. Um So I've
been asking people who've never done Rock and Roll Fantasy
Camp to to come on and just see our brand,
talk to our people. Um so yeah, it's been all
different types of people, all different kinds of artists. Do
you find that you have to sell or does your
reputation proced you and to some people say no, well

(09:38):
I found out my whole career. You know. People have
said no, sure you're gonna you know you're gonna see No,
because I've been doing a split with the artists. It's
basically I'm doing a fifty fifty split with them, and uh,
because you know, I want them to promote it, and
and and also because who knows how what this what's
going to happen here? So you know, so people show,

(09:58):
people turn you down, you know, pick. Some people wanted
the questions in advance. Some people wanted to you know,
they were afraid that maybe someone's gonna call, you know,
a person was gonna get online that they didn't want
to know. But you know, have we've really honestly had
no problems them spend a hundred bucks to call somebody
and ask the stupid questions. It's it's really been great,
it's really been fun. Okay, you know, each one of

(10:21):
them is limited to twenty five people to ask and
then the rest of people can watch. Okay, And those
are different price points, yes, yes, they've been different price points.
Those the the asked seventy five to a hundred and
then the Prince and the listener has been And what
is the largest audience you've had for listen only? I

(10:44):
would say Roger to actually Joe Elliott dick Um. They
were they were grand scorpions, a lot of people from
around the world. How many people were in the Peanut
Gallery listening? About two hundreds. I'm just suddenty five to Yeah, okay,
you're a person whose main rep now is live performance.

(11:05):
Needless say, there are no live performances. The master classes
are not a conventional concert But do you believe or
have any insight to doing virtual concerts? No, you know,
I'm not un concept business. I'm not competing with Live
Nation or a g um. I want to give away information.

(11:26):
I want, I want. I want to teach people. You know,
let's I've changed my whole lifestyle to share people the
knowledge of these artists, these musicians. That's why created the camp.
It's really it's really a place where you can come
and and and learn and play with people that are
better than you, and I want to get that experience.
I'm not so essentially all your time at this point

(11:47):
is camp and the other things established. And Ringo is
a one off tour or would you have other touring
acts or performances. No, I'm not even I'm not doing
Ringo tours. I'm not doing his tours anymore. I'm not
doing any live tours. I started my career. I did
Happy Together, I did Dirty Dancing, I toured out. You know,

(12:08):
I've been everywhere, and I you know, it's about fifteen
years ago. I got remarried and I have two teenagers,
and uh and I don't want to go on the
road anymore. So rock Campus in my full time business
the film UM. I worked on the film to a
certain extent, but basically they told me stay out of
the kitchen so they can take the cake, and they

(12:28):
kept me out of it. UM. But no campus in
the full time business. And now it's been the master
class of promoting the film. Can you go a little
deeper in terms of your exit from promotion? You know
a lot of times people get squeezed out, some people quit.
How did it end with you with Ringo and these
other Happy Together et cetera. Okay, so my business model

(12:48):
I you know, I started eighty four eighty eight four.
I did my first Happy Together tour eight four five
eighty six, I brought the Monkeys back, and then I
did Dirty Dancing his live tour, then Ringo, and then
I've created packages like Super seventies and American Gladias. Then
what happened was once SFX and Live Nation came into

(13:09):
business and I got scared. I got scared because my
business model was find a UM, find a corporate sponsor,
go to your agency and like William Morris the CIA
at the end and let them book your shows with
all the promoters so they can basically you'll you'll they
they was they were selling for the promoters, guarantee the
artists the money and then put them on tour. But

(13:31):
what happened is once it we came down to one
or two promoters, um, and I wasn't selling to the
Ron Delston just in New York and Arnie Grantit in
Chicago and Jules Belkin. Then you know, I couldn't take
the chance, and I would produce the tour and then
all of a sudden, Live Nation SFX. That's that it
didn't sell, you don't want it. I'd be stuck having

(13:53):
to pay the artists for all those shows. So I
had to change my business model. And that's why I decided,
is gonna do, you know, spend more time doing these
camps and uh, but I had to get into promoting
it camps. And let me tell you something. Promoting terrible, Bob.
It's you know, I used to walk away from every
gig say, oh, that promoter screwed me. That promoter screw
there are more people in the house. It's terrible to promote.

(14:14):
It's hard, it really is. Okay, before we addressed that
the roll up started in ninety six. When did you
have sunset in your promotion career? My? My, my best
year was nineties six, eighties seven. I I brought the
monkeys back. Um. And so where did you go out?
When did you get out? No? Home on um, I

(14:37):
would say my last touring was, um, I don't know,
seventeen years ago. It's the last time I did the
ring Goes tour. Um or fifteen years. I did Ringo
fifteen years um and then right right right far I
got married. Then I got married. No more touring. I
want to keep this marriage. Okay, the fifteen years. Who

(14:59):
does the Ringo tour now? Uh? Dave Hart does it
and uh he puts it together and and I think
he books it too. Okay, so it's still outside the
A G Live Nation world. Yeah yeah, I mean I
don't know how he does his business now, but you know,
I know Ringos tours. It was exciting for me for

(15:19):
fifteen years. I put together great band for him, um,
and that was fun and uh and then but he's
still touring. Yeah, God bless him. You know he's still
going at eighties. Okay, did you ever think of partnering
with a g or Live Nation years ago. I think
I made I did make a mistake when I went
to UM. I sold them a tour I saw. I

(15:42):
think I sold Bruce Uh. Um uh, I think I
was thinking Bruce's name. Um, but but THATSX. I told
them about tour of Ringos tour and um. You know
then I didn't take stock and I you know, back
those days, I probably will like to, you know, partner
with them now because I have such huge ideas I
want to do with the rock camp. Um, this camp

(16:04):
is going to go global because the film. I'm getting
so much, so much interest for people to come to camp,
and I really want to take it, take it around
the world. I'm ready. Okay, but let's start with the
building blocks. You're talking about how promoting is so hard. Uh?
Why is it so hard? Why is it hard? Um? Okay,
So how about this story. I'm doing my first Happy

(16:26):
Together tour and the first year and then I did
the second year. I sell it to Ron Delsner and
he would buy from New York and Jones Beach. We
had on Tommy Jay's we were on three Dog Night
and he would sell eight thousand seats ten thousand seats
and he would do the pier. So then I said
to him one yet said, you know, ron Um, I'm gonna.
I want to promote my own show. I'm gonna I'm

(16:46):
gonna do two nights at the at the Beacons here.
I'm going to the two shows because I guarantee the
artist let me try it. And I go on sale
and it's not selling. It's not selling, and I don't
understand why it's not selling. Here. I was selling the
summer out and then all of a sudden us fall.
I'm not selling any tickets. And I never forget walking
to the the theater and people are asking me tickets.

(17:08):
Who needs tickets? Who needs tickets? I was thinking, wow,
maybe it did sell out. I walk in there and
that's a half a house. You know, selling promoting is
very hard, and you know you've gotta advertise. You don't
know what's gonna happen. Um, It's it's a very tough business.
And and uh, you know, you don't know what's gonna happen,
and you're always risking. I mean, and and I was

(17:29):
risking when I was producing tours. As you saw in
the film. You know, they they Joe walshould leave on
out and play the joke on me. And after the
first fourth, fourth show at the guard State Arts Center,
and they basically want to quit, and I mortgage my house.
I mean I mortgaged my house to put up that
Ringo tour in beautiful Town Aus in Manhattan, and I
mortgaged it to put down my deposits. Wow, okay, did

(17:53):
touring break up your earlier marriage? I would say that,
you know, being on the road a lot, Yeah, I did,
because you know, you go on the road, and well
I never used to go on the road and Happy
Together tours. I never went on the road. I never
went on the road really with those early tours, I
go out to a city and then I come back.
I go out to a city, come back. But when

(18:15):
when I put the Ringo's first tour after the fourth show,
I turned him and I said, uh, you know, I
want to go home for the Sabbath, and you know
I observed Shabbat and and uh he turned to me
and he said, well, you know you can do the
Sabbath in Buffalo. Why do you have to go, you know,
go home, And basically said, you know, you said you're
gonna be out of here with me. And I said, well,
that's agent talk. You know, I don't really go on

(18:36):
the road, and um, but then I realized that, you know,
my business was in Buffalo, my businesses in Chicago. My
businesses is wherever the artist is. And and I remember
it was, you know, it was um, Bill Graham who
threw something in my mind. We're at the Concorde Hotel
and I was rehearsing the Monkey tour and Bill Graham, Um,

(18:56):
we used to go up to the castles every summer
to be a waiter. And he said to me, Um,
he had a little to drink one night. And I said,
but what do you do for him? With him? He's
on the Rolling Stone the tour manager. And what do
you mean you're the Rolling Stones tour manager. Yeah, I
have to go on the road. Who else can tell
Mick Jagger get f on the bus and you know,
and basically he said, you gotta be out there. So

(19:17):
with Rinko, I decided, you know what, I have to
be out there. And you were out on the road
for four months, and you know, basically you come home
and you know, you want to tell the wife what
to do. And she said looks at you and says, wait,
you haven't been here for four months. What are what
are you trying to do? So I found being on
the road very difficult for my marriage. And how did
you meet your new wife? Your present wife? So my

(19:38):
present wife walks into my house for a sad. I
used to host a lot of singles on on for
shoppist lunch in my house, and in walks a young
lady who's a Duran Duran groupie, and I couldn't need
to find a woman whose orthodox and who can rock
and roll. And she turned out to be a groupie
and who became Orthodox. And we have two teenagers and uh,

(20:00):
seven grandkids. I got three older kids, and uh we're
all living together here in l A. So it's really nice. Okay.
Were these single nights giving back to the community or
a way for you to meet your new wife? That's
the great question, you know. I I holsted the meals
right eventually to meet my new wife. But uh, you know,

(20:21):
in the beginning, I didn't want to get married. I
thought I'm not getting married again. I got grandkids, and uh,
I remember Roger adult she asked me. He says, what
about that girl you met you told me about her.
I said, Rob, if she wants to have kids, I
have two grandkids, I don't. I don't want any more kids.
And then he said to me, you have kids at
sixty five, teenagers running around your house. And I said, okay,
And you know what, I wake up every morning. I'm

(20:42):
so thankful to him because, you know, having teenagers around
the house, that's just at my age, especially now I'm
sixty four, it's great. They're so motivated and they keep
me alive and keep me going. And you know, frequently
the breakups of the marriage affect your relationships with children,
especially when you're on the road. So what happened with
the three initial children, who you also say live in

(21:05):
the local area of Los Angeles? Now, so I were
Fortunately when when I got divorced um my ex wife,
she moved to Florida and said, you you know you
want the kids, you keep the kids, you know. So
for a while, uh I basically was a main parent,
and uh I raised the kids and uh I kept
I moved my office into my town. I was in Manhattan.

(21:27):
The kids would come home from from the yeshiva. They
would do their homework in front of me, and so
I'm very close with my kids. I my daughter Alana,
she called me today. Um, she works for a company
called Beach Body and they're going public and she's a
real superstar, a lot of mostly in and she told
me a lot. You know. These kids are are and
my other son and my daughter is married to a

(21:47):
rabbi here in Hancock Park and they have five kids.
And my son Josh is here. So yeah, I know
I was. I was the main parent. Okay, So how's
their relationship with their mother? Uh? Fortunately passed away, you know.
And yeah, the mom passed away, Bob and about three
years ago. And and uh so now it's me. I
got to do it all and I love it. I

(22:09):
love it. Okay, how did you decide to move to
l A? So I was doing the rock and Roll
Fantasy camps and um Mark Burnett um came to see
me in New York and he said, I want to
make a reality series out of your show and out
of your camps, and um, you know I had done
one earlier on TLC. They did a special they William

(22:32):
Maritza had offered John Farred to the late John farredy
offered me. Uh, said, I got a deal for you.
They want to do a series on Rock Roll Fantasy
Camp and they want to, you know, make it like
The Bachelor meets uh Rock and I remember Forget, I
remember Colly Roger and I said, Roger got a enough
for a series here, and he says, don't do it.
It's gonna kill your brand. And so I decided not

(22:56):
to do it, but he said, do it two hours special.
They did a two hour special and it turned out great,
and he did. It was on TLC and Brett Michaels
was in a Mills Locker was in it. Basney told
the story about Camp. Then when when Mark Burnett came
to see me and he promised me, I'll make a
reality show. I said, you know, you gotta keep it
rock and roll. It can't be reality. And he tried

(23:17):
the best he could. He sold us a v H
one classic. It was pre the Voice, it was, it
was you know it was. It was a good show.
But I wanted to come out to l A. And uh,
I've always wanted to come out to l A. But
I didn't want to leave my parents years ago, and
so I came out first and then the kids followed me.
It was great, Okay, l A is getting a bad rap.

(23:38):
Now all of California you still sold? Or would you
ever move back? No, I'm staying here. You wake up
every morning and you see the sunshine, and you've got
your grandkids here, and no, I'm not going back. And
you know I saw, I'll pay the extra taxes and tears.
I liked it. And now my next top is Israel.
That's where I'm going next. Okay, you and Sheldon Adolson

(23:59):
who was no there with us. But in any event,
when you talk about the two TLC and v H one,
if you could rewind the clock, would you have done them?
I would have. Yeah, the TLC I loved um. When
I've done the idea, No, I probably wouldn't have done
the Mark Burnette one because it really doesn't show what

(24:20):
my camp is about. You know, my campus about people.
It's not young people aspiring to be rock stars. It's
people over forty wanting who had a decision in life
to make. They were they were, they were in high school, college,
they were in a band, and they have to make
a decision do I become a rock star or do
I get a real job. And they really wanted to
become a rock star. You know, my my third book.

(24:40):
I'm writing a book. Now, Hey, mom, I could have
been a rock star, but you maybe go to Harvard.
And that's my customer. And um, they're passionate about what
they want to be a musician. And you know, Joe
Perry was funny. One night he gave a class he
was talking about at camp. He said to a guy
were in Fox was doing a rock camp. He turns
to a guy, he says, hey, what do you do

(25:01):
for a living? And guy said, I'm a doctor. And
then the weekends, I have a band. And he says
to him, and I play guitar. And Joe says, no, no,
you're a guitarist. First you do the other medical bullshit
to pay for your guitars. And it's true. A musicians
a musician. And so that's that's really what I'm about.
I'm about teaching getting people to play with these superstars.

(25:22):
It will make them a better player. You saw in
the films that you become a better player, and it's
really you're living a dream. And unlike the sports fantasy
camps where they they end when you you know, thirty
five campaign athlete, you can still make a living being
a musician at sixty five seven, that you can play
a bar mits, so you can write a song, you

(25:43):
can be in a tribute band. And I've seen these
people graduates from my camps and just really flourish. Now
a lot of rock stars are legendary for either being
non verbal or off putting. How do you what's your
experience and how do you live in These people up
who were gunshy, who might have gotten into music because

(26:03):
their music would speak for them. Well, listen, this camp
could not never worked if it wasn't for um, you know,
people wanting to give back, and not every It's not
for every musician I've turned you know, people turned me down.
Remember when I first started the Door Raymond Derek and
the Door said I'm up playing with amateurs, you know,
and and people turned me down. And the way I

(26:25):
got it started really was I I went to see
Roger uh and Roger he had just done a tour
for me in British roc Symphony. And I did my
first camp in Florida as you see in the film,
and Um, I called Mills, Cinna called Clarence Clemence. Mills
got it. Clarence said I'll come over, and even my
love of the Beach Boys and Mark Farne. I call
everybody that I knew and then towards them and said, hey,
I got got this crazy idea. What you come And

(26:47):
they came, and um, I had about sixteen people, and
then I had but I had forty media people came
and uh, they came to watch and but people had
a great time. And the meeting guys to me and said,
you know, we were gonna blow you. We were we
were gonna, you know, write terrible things about you. But
this thing is great. We're really learning, have be fun.

(27:08):
And they wrote great stories. So um, then when I
want to see you know Roger, and I said to her,
I explained to him what I'm doing and he didn't
understand it. He could saying, comp what's the camp? What's
the camp? What's the camp now? Bob, I grew up
in the cast Cools. I went to camp. You know
those guys in England the word camp you know. He
said you should do with the Thompson Twins of the
village people. They the work camping in London needs something else.

(27:31):
So I turned him. I said, Roger, let's let me
change the subject. If you had a chance to play
with your hero. Who would you want to play with it?
You know the way he says, leave on Helm. He says,
you introduced me to leave on Helm. I'll do your can,
so now leave on. I hadn't met him through the
Ringo and he did my first ring Goo tour. I
turned to Roger, I said, you know Leean's you know,

(27:52):
he's not doing well financially. Said whatever you're gonna give him,
we're gonna gives me give it to him. I want
to meet him. So I called leve On and said,
leve On, would you come to camp up and meet
Roger and I can get him to come to my camp. Well,
I'll be there there, I'll be there for you. And
he was so nice. He came down from what suck.
He got to meet Roger. And then Roger comes to
the camp and he starts jamming with the feeble room

(28:12):
after room, and then he turns to me says, what
are they gonna when when these people are performing? I said,
they're performing at the bottom line, he's not gonna jam
with each band. And he came and and I gotta
I gotta give him credit, because you know, he really
enjoyed it. Had a great experience, and he's done seven
camps for me, and um, it's been interesting for him too,
because you know, he's got to meet some great people.

(28:34):
When one of the campers game two hundred fifties thousand
dollars to play a Who's Song with him at at
for his charity, you know, he rodgers all about teat
cancer and uh and so he's met some great people. Okay,
let's go back to the beginning. You grow up where
I grew up in Hackinsack, New Jersey. I'm born in Manhattan.

(28:54):
My dad said cancer. He's a survivor of the Holocaust.
He survived out for this, he said, I book them. Well, Um,
so you know I heard the stories my whole life.
My father was one of those who talked about it.
You know, something anson't even talk about. He talks about
it every day every day. He put it in my
head about what he went through. And uh, so I
grew up basically in in Hackensack, New Jersey. Um, the

(29:16):
only how about your mother? What was she like? What
was her background? My mom was from Berlin. UM and
when when Hitler was taking over in Germany, her father
took his diamonds, he sewed him in his jacket and
he just said, I'm going on vacation. He took my
mom and and and my grandmother and they went to
Israel and then eventually they came to New York City.

(29:38):
He couldn't make a living in Israel, but he basically
he was able to sew his diamonds up and and
uh in his coat and left. My father was in
you know, he was from Bratislava, and um he lived
as a non Jew. That was amazing. My dad lives
as a non Jew. And his brother in law was
a guy named Castetna. And I don't know if you
remember they had those videographers she those ca okay, So

(30:02):
that was his brother in law. So my dad learned
how to make how to print. So he lived as
he escaped from a concentration camp called Sarah. It was
a small camp and he makes his way to Budapest
and he lives as a non Jew. My dad survived
because he was blonde hair and he was blue eyed,
so he didn't look Jewish. And he called his name

(30:23):
Red Martin was his nickname. And he worked in a
printing press and he made false passports and I can't
tell you how many Jews. I met over the years,
so many people that he saved their lives. Um, he
made false passports and uh, it was a great Rabbi
said to me one day, he said, you know, my
whole life I made people Jews. Your dad may maybe
a non Jews maybe. Okay, just since with this deep

(30:48):
into it, how did your father get hurted up and
go to the concentration camp to begin with? So, Um,
he got captured. Um In the police arrested him and
in brought the slava and they rounded up him and
his father. His father they sent right away to a
camp right near Auschwitz. So that's why my dad was
trying to get to Budapest. He was trying to get

(31:10):
to Budapest because he wanted to get close to his father.
My dad's part of he was six brothers, six sisters,
um and uh. Five of the brothers, five of the
brothers survived and six except one Um. The other sisters
they died in the camps. And so then he got
hut up. But oh, so then he escaped the camp. Okay,

(31:32):
he jumped over a fence. And there's a book called
the Yellow Star that was just came out. Um. It
was written in the sixties, but they they just republished
it um and Um. It's called The Yellow Stars on
It's on Amazon, and it really tells the story about
my father and his his five friends how they survived Auschwitz
and book bold but basically how they kept My father

(31:54):
would get on the floor and the Nazis wouldraw these
UH cigarette butts, and he would take the cigarette us
and the part that wasn't smoked, he he put together
a cigarette and then he traded flower so he can
make matzos on Passover with water. He my father kept
a religion as much as he could in the camps,
and he gets caught. But he gets caught, Um. He

(32:15):
got beaten a crazy because someone told on him on
the streets in Budapest that that that man is making
false passports, and he got arrested. He goes to Auschwitz
and then he volunteers to get out of Auschwitz, to
speak to UH, to go to book and Wall, to
work in a plane factory, and he gets liberated for
the American government, Um, the American Army. Second night of Passover,
he gets liberated from book and Walter. Wow, how many

(32:38):
kids in the family. It's just me and my brother Joe,
Joe is six years old than me. He's a rabbi
in Boca Raton. Um. He's the rock and roll fan.
He's the one that my brother is. Really. I was
a sports guy. I was. I was a sports agent.
I love sports. My brother loved rock and roll. I
remember when I got to pick up Jer Baker and

(33:00):
he came to camp. I said to him Ginger. Um.
I heard two words growing up, God and Ginger Baker.
My father Wou was talking about God and my brother
Joey talked about Ginger. Joey is the Yeah, he still is.
He's a rabbi and in all his congregation brings him
gold record and brings them records all day. It takes
the concerts and you know that's he loves that. And

(33:22):
did you take piano lessons or play an instrument? Growing up?
I tried at the piano lessons guitar, and you know what,
I was terrible, and you know, and I wanted to
be in my brother's band. And you know, because he
was a drummer, he got all the girls and he
was six years older and I couldn't do it. And
you know, I tried to be in the band and Um.
Then my Dad turned to me and he says, get

(33:44):
out of the band. You know. He said, you can
book six bands a night. So it was my dad
and I booked my brother up in the castles. So
did you go to Jewish school? Did you go to
regular public school? Now? I went to the Shiva. I
want to Aschiva my whole life. And you know, I

(34:04):
have to both the Hebrews and English people in the
English studies. And then I went to college for about
a year. Um, it wasn't I went to Baruke in Manhattan. Um.
And then I met my first ball player. I was
twenty years old. I meet Elliot Mattics to center field
of the Yankees, and um, and I always wanted to

(34:25):
be a sports agent. So he introduced to Luke and
Ella and then I met Vince. Oh a little bit slower,
Let's go back to your Judaism. What is the future
of Judaism both worldwide and in America with so much
injured marriage? What's your philosophy or well that you know,
I'm very opinionate on that. I am so against into marriage, um,

(34:48):
only because I think that, um, it will it will
lessen the Jewish race. Um. But on the other hand,
you know, love is important. So I'm at a stage
in my life where you know, love comes first, but
I don't encourage into marriage. Um. But I respect everybody
to find love in their life. So uh, you know

(35:10):
it's um, I asked to respect it. But I think Judaism,
I think we're doing better. I think, uh um, Israel
is becoming such an incredible place. I mean, the state
of Israel, all the technology that comes out of there. There,
people are moving there. Um. You know, it's incredible. I
mean I I think Truthum is a nice city in Manhattan.

(35:33):
You know, it's a great place to live. Okay, what
about the increased anti Semitism in America in the last
four years. It's bad and it has been bad. You know.
I live in a neighborhood here in Hancock Park where
you know they destroyed the you know the rioty. They
were you know, groth stuff on the walls of the

(35:55):
the synagogues and my daughter's schools. That was scary. That
was very scary. You know, I put acre out my
house because I was afraid what's going on? So you know,
anti Semitism will always be there, um. But you know, uh, well,
what am I gonna do we we we were not
gonna live. We're not gonna live. My dad was a
very very strong about village and about being proud of

(36:18):
your Judaism, proud of your religion. Um, you know it's
I remember walking to synagogue in Galveston, Texas, and and
and you know, Brocton Mats. We walked to the guy
and a guy yelled out dirty June. My father. I
never saw my father run so fast, and and he
tracked down those kids, and you know, walked into the
high school, onto Brockton High and and he told the

(36:39):
principal he's he was a real, real strong believer in Okay,
you're someone who wears a keep skull cap. It's you're
quite obviously Jewish. I would assume in this business and
traveling around the country, you've encouraged and you even countered
anti semitism on a regular basis. You know, I can't
I really encounter it. I know I was representing professional athletes. Um.

(37:02):
You know, some of the general mounagers that say, you know,
would be would be would say things to me, but
I don't think they realized what they were saying. UM.
And I you know, I think I think you'll get
a kick out of this. I was, I was producing
Dirty Dancing as a live tour. And if remember I
did that tour. Uh I did it with Dennis Arfa
and came up with his constant to put Dirty Dancing

(37:23):
on the road. And it was huge. It was. It
was a big, big, big tour for me and UM.
It played all around the world. And I got a
phone call from the promoter in Germany. What was his name,
the Israeli guy um I just talked about the other day.
He represented UM Michael Jackson there and he called me up.

(37:43):
He said, David, I want to bring Dirty Dancing to Germany.
And I said, and he said, I love you half
a million dollars And I said, I'm not taking Dirty
Dancing to Germany. I said, I'm not selling a show
of Germany. I said, Bob, I was raised, you wouldn't
have lots of I could if I couldn't drive a Mercedes,
I couldn't drive a b W. I couldn't wear a
leather coat. If it was made in Germany, it wasn't

(38:03):
at my house. And so I said, no, I'm thinking
of his name. I'll think of his name. Then another
promoter calls me up and he says, David. He says,
we'll off he as seven and fifty to bring dirty
dancing to Germany. I said, I can't do it. You know,
I'm not doing it. I'm gonna get I'm just not
doing it. And then I got a quote from a
well known lawyer in this town and he said, David,

(38:25):
please meet my promoter. Um he's in town. And what
really wants the big dirty dancing to Germany. Everyone knows
you're not gonna sell it, and but they take the
meeting with him. So I'm gonna get paid. You know,
he's gonna speak. And the guy comes to see me
and he says it offers me a million dollars. He said,
I'll give you a million dollars to do these shows
in Germany. So I said, you know, I'll think about it,

(38:45):
but I'm not doing it. And I call that night.
I called my father at home. I said dead. I said,
you're gonna be proud of me. I turned the million
dollars and I hear my father the on the phone.
This up. I think this, Michiga, are you not nothing
to take the money. You don't spend the money. Take
the money. And I never forget to call the guy back.
I said, okay, for a million three, we'll do it.

(39:08):
And um I saw I did during dancing in Germany.
So you know, listen, I've been to every synagogue around
the country. I spent the Sabbath at every rabbi kabbad house. Um.
You know what, keeping the religions probably kept me enthusiastic
all these years. It kept me away from the drugs,
It kept me away from you know, it just kept

(39:30):
me as much centered as I could be because I
knew that I need time off. And you know, you know,
this business is crazy, pub and crazy in the sense
that it's not reality. It's not reality. And um, you
know one thing that changed my life to two was
I did a program about twenty years ago. Um. I

(39:51):
was a young lady here in l A recommend me
to the hostin process and I went away to this
place and uh for seven days and you know, and
I'll never forget changed my life and really to work
on myself because I've been doing this since I'm twenty
years old, around athletes, around stars, and you gotta see reality.
It's it's hard. Okay, Uh, you go, let's go back

(40:15):
to the cat's skills. Was there any chance to save
the cats skills? And is there any way to resuscitate
the cats skills? The mountains, you know, the mountains we
were was a great learning place for me because first
of all it was as an agent, you have to
go at sell the docks in these hotels, in these bungalows.
But it also taught me why worked for this agency.

(40:37):
What they would do is they would go to Heny Youngman,
say hey, Henny, here's fifty shows guarantee for the summer,
for the ten weeks, for a Memorial Day to Labor Day.
They would do that to Freddy Roman, they would give
it and they would book them in a bungalow colony.
They would book them to open for humper dak at
the concorde Um, you know, wherever they sent you. And
that's how I got into these passage stores. I would

(40:58):
guarantee the money I took what I learned there. Now,
the problem with the castles was they were seving three
meals a day, and but I was the waiter up there,
and we would stuff our people so much. We'd beat
them a hundred main dishes because we knew at the
end of the week we didn't want to get a
big tip, So you know, I bring them a side
of chicken inside of turkey. You know, I just keep

(41:20):
you know, and no one will order a whole portion.
I just want to side the side of this, the
side of that, and um, you would stuff them. And
now you gotta understand those comedians who worked up there,
the Freddy Roman, the Jack Carters, the Jen Murray's, none
of those those great built and growths. They have to
entertain people wait three meals a day at growth, seviers

(41:42):
in the concorde who stuffed themselves. And now at tenth
thirty night there was a singer would go on and
then there was a comedian and trying to make people laugh.
And you know, unlike where you buy a ticket to
a show where you know you're sitting there like you're
gonna clap and everything. It's like doing those corporate dates
those artists. Hey, you know, I hate those corporate dates.
So those people get the show for free. So you know,

(42:03):
I was at a Beyonce show once and I still
have the people walked out because they didn't pay for it.
And that's a little as in the castles. They these
people sit back, Okay, did they sit back. They look
at the communities that got dat you enter tame me,
I dare you to make me laugh? And the stick
that these guys had to do and these ladies, it
was incredible. I don't think the castle will ever come back.

(42:23):
People don't want the three meals a day, um, but
they want the homes up there. You know, it's still
a great place to go. And I recently sold my
house up there because I couldn't sell it. I thought
gambling was going to change. Okay, so your father says
to stop playing and start booking your How old and
how extensive is your booking business before you get into sports?

(42:48):
So I was My booking business was basically I was
booking Jewish centers and organizations UM around the country. And
I was booking UM. I was live in Herschel. Bernardi
was my first client, and and I was booking Herschel
and UM and then in the castles. I was booking
those because the Bungalo colleagues in the hotels and uh.
And then I go into the sports business. And I'm

(43:11):
before you go into sports and you're going to college
one year, how how much is this a business? How
much money are you making or is it a sideline?
What is it? It's you know, making thirty dollars a year.
I'm you know, I don't have to be a waiter.
I'm storry to make some money. Um, booking a corporate
dates and but you know, really synagogues and and I

(43:32):
was making my thirty that's pretty good money back then. Yeah,
it wasn't Yeah, it wasn't bad. I was always making money.
What did your parents say about you dropping out of school?
My mother was so upset at me. Um, my father
didn't have a college education. My mother was so upset
at me. And I have to share something, you know.

(43:52):
At the last camp, you know, and we all worked
on our childhood and our parents. It's all about our
parents where we come from. I'll stay only at the
last At the last camp, he did. He gets up
there and he says, he gets interviews and one of
the kid, I have a young kid who interviewed him
and he said to him, so, what did your parents
think when you became successful? And he says, you know,

(44:14):
my my mother she was so proud of me. My
father he was jealous. He still alive, my father, and
he's jealous of me. And he was jealous of my success.
And all of a sudden I got hit. I thought
that my brother was the favorite. That he was six
years older. My brothers the rabbi. He went to college,
he went to masters. You know, he got his master's,
and you know, he was the favorite. I always walked around.

(44:35):
He was the favorite. And I realized that it wasn't
that my mother was jealous of me. She was jealous. Um,
I was living this good life and and you know
I had a nice home and a nice apartment out
of place in Israel, and you know that, I think
so my mother was really always upset. You can't make
it without going to college, you know, Bob. I looked

(44:56):
back at it, and I did go back to college.
After I did that house in process us and I
try to find myself. I went back. I did some years,
and I did. I went to Ford and took a
bunch of classes. And I think she's just right, you know.
I mean, I tell my kids, now, you've got all
my kids got masters. They all get to finish college.
And yu, my my my son the other day said
you should be a lawyer. Um, I really believe in education.

(45:18):
But here I was. I had an opportunity too. I
was representing a baseball player twenty years old. I picked
up ll Matic and then Luke Panella. So you know,
you go to college to try to find a job
at a living and I was able to find a
living at twenty years old. Okay, how did you make
the deal to represent Elliot Maddox? So I was writing

(45:39):
for the the newspaper, the Jewish Press, and I was
staying in a camp in the summer, and um they
were having uh I was staying at this this camp
and Dr J showed up and all these ballplayers, um
were showing up to these camp and uh, I saw
how crazy these kids would go. And and here I
was collecting money, trying to get paid for these bungal

(46:00):
callbinator owners and the hotel owners, for the comedians and singers.
I sold them and they would say, they said to me,
I've been taken up twenty five hours because the singer
didn't do a song from Findler on the Roof or
the comedie wasn't funny. I said, this is crazy. I'm
gonna I'm gonna book ball players. I wanna get ball
when they show up their heroes. They signed autographs and

(46:21):
That's when I did. I went to Elliot Mattics. I
met him at Yankees say him. I was doing an
interview I Jews in sports, and my first guy was
Ron Bloomberg. I went interview him and then I asked
if he did the appearance of the camp. He said,
he's rehabbing. He says, meet Elliot Mattics, and uh. I
went up with Elliot and I just started a business.
They said, let's start representing ballplayers together. So I opened
the little company called Elliot Mattics Enterprises. And then he

(46:43):
injud me to lou Pinella and uh, and then lose
you know, really was the start of my you know,
my my start of my sports career. He introduced me
to Vince Ferrik. I'm out here for the dryer out here,
and you know, the one thing about ball players are
if you do a good job for them, they share
locker rooms to get other so they recommend you and uh.
And then I got still sims of the quarterback as

(47:05):
the Giants, and then I got the whole offensive line.
I was representing nine of the New York Giants in
nineteen eighties six. I couldn't even take on any more clients.
You know, one team, you and nine players? So how
did you get lou? How did lose? Say? Yes? Did
he have an agent previously? No, he never had any.
Those sports guys didn't have agents. So I called Loud

(47:25):
to do an appearance at the camp and I picked
him up and drove him there and afterwards, let's forget.
He said, whence you come to my house? Blocker? He
gave me, He gave me twenty hours and he said
histily against and no, no, please, I don't want it,
he said. He invited me to his house and I
had my yamaghan. He said, you want to have lunch here?
I said, no, I keep kosher. But I started talking
to him and I said, do you have an agent?

(47:46):
He says no, and uh. I said, well let me start.
You know, I'd love to see if I'm go out
to some commercials and some appearances. And he said, go
for it, and uh, and I did. And I called
up every bank and in the town. I called bombs
close us in New York, I called wherever and the
anks were hot and you know that year and seventy
nine and uh, and Bucky Dennet just hit the home

(48:08):
run and William Morris's represent any Buckey den So I would, uh,
I call somebody and they bump into somebody, but they said, oh,
we're thinking of Bucky Dennet, William Mars and sad. How
much do they charge you? They said, I've got little Panela,
I'll do it for seventy five. And I pad commercials
and I hustle for little and then eventually he asked
me to negotiate his contract with George Steinbrenner. Um, and

(48:29):
I negotiated with George and um and again you know,
if you do great for one player, they help you.
You know, they recommend other players. Okay, you're negotiating with
George Steinbrenner. He's made all this money and shipyards and
all this other stuff. He owns the Yankee. You're you're
a little pischer. I'm a little How do you even

(48:51):
do that? Are you uptight? Are you confident? There's so
much you don't know? How do you do it? What
was the experience like? So that wasn't edible because um,
you're right, I didn't know. I wasn't. I'm not a
US sportsman. Um. But what I did was I have
a philosophy negotiations there's three things to win these information,
power and time. And the the time is that George

(49:14):
had to sign love um or else Louis can become
a free agent, and uh, he would have lost them
to other teams. So what I did was I called
around to all the general managers in baseball and I said, hey,
I represented Luke Panella. Are you interested in it was
gonna be a free agent. Now at that time, the
Yankees had until a certain time were to sign him,
Georgie sign to sign him, and um. So I remember

(49:37):
calling all these general managers and they all said David
was not going to leave the Yankees and George is
never gonna let him go and um. And then one
general manager split the spilled the bease with me said, uh,
he says, listen at the owners meeting last week, George
got up and said, whoever negotiates against my players, you
offer ten dollars, I'm gonna offer twenties. So don't go

(49:58):
after Reggie Jackson, don't go after Lucanella, don't go after
my players. When Luke called me, he saw or our Schluter.
You know, I'd love to talk, you know, he said, Well,
I worked out I'm reading with George. And I remember
I'm in l a and um I was working with
the association too at the time. I fly down to
Florida and I'm gonna walk into this meeting with George
Diebner and I'll never forget his desk was the size

(50:21):
of I mean, it was a long penis. I had
to say, I mean, what he's He's at the head
of that, the head at the table, and I walk in.
He sits me down and and he basically, uh he said, well,
what do you want. I said, well, George, I'm here
to talk about loose contract and to let him be
a free agent. I said, you know, George, he can
never be a free agent. You're never gonna let him go.

(50:42):
You're never gonna let him go. And uh So, basically
I was able to negotiate. I got Lou a huge contract.
And because I basically had the information that George really
wasn't gonna let him go. The information I had was
time and he was in a rush to make the deal.
And powers in the mind. I looked in there with power,
I said, I got you know, I love these players.

(51:03):
I as a fan, I loved seeing these players and
and uh so I was really uh an advocate for them.
You know, early on, I was an advocate for these players.
And the great thing was that at the same time,
I had the entertainment business going, so I wasn't desperate.
I wasn't desperate that I could negotiate a sports contract.
You know those days. You know, I had Vince Faragamo

(51:24):
and and he got um I went when he hired
me to negotiate his contract. The agent he had before
him was getting paid off by the by the general
manager of the ramps. And you know, they was getting
he was getting free tickets and they would getting um.
He was getting a bone. He got fifteen thousand dollars
to get Vince to sign. And you know, I hear
I was as naive kids coming into l A. And
you know I, you know, Vince hired me, and I

(51:46):
and I you know, so I was really honest and
straight with these guys and I and I didn't um.
You know, I didn't kiss up to them because but
it's only because I had another business. You know, if
I wouldn't have had show business, I probably wouldn't have
been that strong get the attainment this in sports, you know,
So the two things really helped me bounce my life. Okay,
two things. You have pressure because these are household named

(52:08):
athletes too. It's kind of like buying a car. You
make an offer and they go berserk. You're insulting me whatever.
You know, how did you handle that? How did you
keep your gumption in your nerves? Well, you know it was.
I try not to be a fan. You know, that's
the one thing about me. I'm not a fan. I'm
not I mean, I'm a Celtics fan. So I remember

(52:29):
callably read outback about a player and I said, read, um,
I gave you the player for free. I always want
to win, but I you know, I was a Red
Sox fans. I wasn't really a Yankee fan. But I
did a lot of research. I would hire college kids
to get me the best research. When I was negotiating contracts,
you know, guys to go. I hired a rabbi once
to negotiate help me with Dave Magnet's negotiations because he

(52:53):
understood from that, you know, I get to analyze baseball.
Contracts are really analysis of a guy hits sixty two RBIs,
another guy has sixty two r bis. My guy Maggant
and hit sixty to r bis. But you know, sixty
one of them the score was two to one and
he tied it up too to two, or he took
the lead, or you know, so they were meaningful. There

(53:16):
are a lot of guys out there who have thirty
home runs and they hit up on the score seven two,
so they make the score eight to two. So you know,
you really have to do your research. And that's that's
what it was negotiating sports contracts. Okay, there was a
long time where people had the lead contracts in terms
of compensation. What was your philosophy? So, um, yes, there

(53:37):
were many contracts that. Uh. I was a believer that
I put a lot of my players into annuities. Um.
Back then you were able to to, you know, get
the team to pay the money into annuity and or else.
I recommended my players to get anuities. And you know
about I don't know. Fifteen years ago, I got a
call from a player here in l A and he said, David,

(53:58):
I gotta check in the mail for house. And I said,
you're gonna get that check every month for the next
thirty years of your life. And I was a big, big,
big fan of that because I was I knew that
their careers were gonna end. And I and I, while
I never did any financial management, I always made sure
they had their own accountants, they have their own lawyers.

(54:18):
I didn't want to be and I didn't want to
manage it because I saw too many players soothe their
agents for handling the money. You know, when Louis the
general manager of the Yankees, he told me a story
that Ricky Henderson's agent, uh call you know, Lucas the
call from the accountant at the Yankees and said, hey,
lou h, you signed Ricky, but he didn't cash his
check for billion dollars sigimones and the years gone by,

(54:41):
and he told him to check. And Louke call them.
Calls up the agent, he says, and the guy says, well,
don't um. He says, you got our check. So I
got the check right here. Ricky is gonna deposited, you know,
and we know what we're gonna do with it. So
I knew that wasn't my forte. My forte was go
out and make them money. I didn't want to manage
their money, but I always kill them. You've gotta have

(55:02):
few money in your career, and it's gonna end. Your
career is gonna end. It's not show business. And even
in show business, you know you're gonna have to protect yourself.
And so they all have done well. Okay to touch
with them all today. Okay. In sports, what was the
agents deal with the athlete? Financially? It was three and um,

(55:26):
you know you get three percent of the contract percent
on the merchandizing. And you know for years, you know,
I was William Marts and CIA who are now doing
great with sports, they would never do those deals. Um,
they would never did sports. They never they never did
because they didn't they said, how can we charge an
artist ten percent? And uh, how can we charge of

(55:47):
ten percent and then charge a ballplayers represent until they
woke up one day and said, there's a lot of
money in sports. There's a lot of money in sponsorship
and uh but yeah they no one was doing it.
I was the only one doing at payment in sports.
I didn't care. I liked it. There's also an issue
with Sunset clauses and getting paid. What was your experience

(56:07):
with that? You know, you make a five year deal
and you know, I don't know how your contract for structure,
but you have our problems getting paid or getting paid
on sunset clauses or anything like that. So I used
to treat these ballplayers as artists, you know, I called
them every day. I feel the relationship of many many
athletes agents that you know, they would negotiate the contract

(56:29):
and then they wouldn't you know, talk to player three
years later, and they were upsetting hundreds of guys. And
that's the way the business was. I treated my my artists,
my athletes as artists because that's where I learned to
do it, you know, whether it's the castles or music act.
And so I really I never had a problem getting paid. Um.
But you know you you know when you got paid,
they paid to December. That's when they would write to

(56:53):
check out. So I had no cash flow and that
was rich in December and I got stuck paying the taxes,
you know. So that's why the entertainment business for me,
I was doing this tours simultaneously. Now, having the tours,
having the music and the sports really helped. For For example,
when when Phil Simms, uh he was doing a speaking engagement,

(57:13):
well to start with Luponella he was doing, I got
him an endorsement with members only, UM. The jackets. So
then I said to the little I said, he speak
to the president. I'm doing this tour with the turtles
and the grassroots happening. He goes, I want to get
his corporate sponsor. So Lose says to the guy, Hey,
why don't you sponsor Glavias tour? What my tours called
members only. I was the first one doing this. I

(57:34):
I went to Phil Sims and he was sitting next
to the president of of Chunky Monkey for Chunky's uh
in the bisco whatever. No, that wasn't a bisco was
not hers. She's let's go. He was doing a personal
parents And I turned to sell I said, still asked
the guy got the monkeys going out, maybe he can,
you know, sponsor the tour, and Phil saying, my my agent, David,
what he's doing the monkeys? I got? I thought I

(57:56):
got tours sponsorship. Um, I was a ballplayers that got
had it. My favorite one is I was doing the
American Gladias Live Tour and I was desperate to find
the corporates. My my business was the way I did
the tours was I find a corporate sponsor, then I
would create the tour. I would basic create the tour,
find a corporate sponsor, then go to an agency like
William Morris and CIA, and and then I would um,

(58:19):
you know, and then and then I would UM. So
I had five revenues. I had the corporate of the
corporate sponsor to William R. City with book the date.
I made money on the merchandise. I made money on
you know, you sound the lights, you staid an extra
because he's a charge on the contracts extra sound lights.
And then there was already percentages. I would make money
and that was my business model. And that's how I
created all these tours before Live Nation, before CIA and UM.

(58:44):
But it was the sports that brought me these deals.
And UM, I never forget. I was doing the Sumeric
Gladia Tour and I was desperate to get a corporate
sponsor because you know, you need a sponsor to fund them.
And UM, I got a call from Rock Road. He
was a sportscaster in New York, and he said, you know,
we want to interview you for a sports show to
talk about the UM, to talk about Phil sims Is

(59:07):
having a UM. I think it was Bruner. He was
another quarterback. Bill parcels Uh kicked the other quarterback and
he says, will you go on? And I never went
on the air talk sports because you know, what do
I know about sports compared to these players? And I said,
I'll do it because about one condition that you asked
me about. You know, you asked me about my Merk

(59:28):
Gloody and Live tour. So I showed up to the
studio and I see the last question. It says, if
there's time on the on the on the monitor asked
him about us the Berke Glady Live Tour, and so
he helpened up the show itself. I guess the David
Fish talking about the quarterback controversy here in New York,
and uh David to tell us about the controversy. And

(59:49):
I turned to the guy and I said, Rock, I
said this, it's no difference in the Merk Bloody and
Live tour that I'm doing this summer. And I'm telling
you you got Phil Sims going against up Bruner and
there and they want to win the and who's gonna
be the number one quarterback? And by the way, I'm
looking for a sponsor. The next day, a guy calls
he from seven eleven. I heard you on the sports

(01:00:11):
show last night, and he says, I want to buy
this and he took me on and he said, I'm
gonna buy it from a Coca Cola buy for me.
And that's how I got corporate sponsorship. How did you
get out of sports? So by the time I was
I was doing the Monkeys and that was six and

(01:00:33):
it was great, and I kept doing it. Um, I
got out of sports. I guess when when I did?
Still since this contract as a broadcaster, um, and then
most of my players started to retire and they quit.
You know, I um barbaro and I did. I did
lose a lot of contract when Cincinnati read, but it
was just too much, you know. And you know I

(01:00:55):
cared about I care about the guy. I care about
all my clients. And you know, the other day I
was having a year ago, I was having lunch with
Tom Consolo, the great manager say Hagarn, and we were
talking about, um, you know, the old days, how it
was and when we were you know, we were there,
but we weren't there our family life and and you
know he said and wronged me. I was never there

(01:01:17):
growing up with my kids earlier. I mean, I don't
feel guilty, but I was always worried about this client.
And that client, and so you know, it was it
was skinning a lot. I was a lot of ballplayers,
so I started so too. Once once my players retired, Um,
then I was gonna, you know, staying Nio entertainment full time.
And I was single, and I just just it was

(01:01:37):
it was the time for me to leave. And and uh,
I didn't want to recruit these young kids. I didn't
relate to the young kids anymore. And so I was
basically it and I thought, you know, let me just
do entertainment. Okay, can you delegate or do you have
to do it. I tried to delegate, and you know,

(01:01:59):
it's hard, and they it's hard to delegate. I'm doing
it now with with Britt and she's great. Um, I
gotta find some good people. And you know there's no question, Uh,
this rock camp is is really gonna get big. I
think the film, I'm seeing what's happening, and I gotta
find some people. I gotta find an organization to partner with.
I gotta find somebody that, um that I could trust

(01:02:19):
that I can. You know, when I did that Dirty
Dancy tool it Denni's our front. We were partners. That
was incredible. Bob. You know, I had a partner that
that we were twenty four seven done. It's a hard worker.
We we've made a lot of money and we have
fun doing it. So I really want to find somebody
that that can really work with me, and we'll just
willing to do the touring because I want to put
rock Camp back on the road. Let's say I say

(01:02:41):
tomorrow we're gonna take your phone away. You can stay
in your house. Your family is going to be out
on vacation. Is that torture or is that Godhead? It's torture.
I like to be around the kids, you know. I
love being around the family, and and you know, well,
let's make it more about business. Are you the type

(01:03:02):
person who makes a hundred phone calls a day? Or
are you the type person of God? I don't want
to talk to him. No, I like to work. I
like to work. You know I wanted, but I'm not
talking about work. I guess. Are you don't really a
people person? You only thrive when you're interacting with people?
Yes or no? Yes? Yes totally. I love people. I
love talented people. I love people. Um yeah, I need people. Okay, monkeys?

(01:03:28):
Why so in n six. I I'm you know, I'm
staying in a hotel and in Kansas City, and the
phone and I was in this room at two o'clock
from when I couldn't sleep and the Monkey TV show
comes on and I said, wow, that's the show I remember,
and I remember the monkeys because that was able to

(01:03:49):
show my parents let me watch on television. You know,
my dad was direct and they didn't want me to
watching the garment. They call it the direct. Do you
have the word direct? What are your doing? So they wouldn't.
They only show that, let me watch for the monkeys.
So now I decided to call up. I checked out
Peter Torque, he's teaching, he's teaching music lessons and I

(01:04:12):
was look at card teacher on the west side. So
I invited to come to my to Ron Delsis show
that we were doing at the Pier and he's sitting
at the side of the stage and I said him,
I said, um, Peter, this is what I'm doing. I'd
love to put the monkeys back together. So he tells me, um,
he comes to show and he's loving and he's tapping
and seeing. And then the next morning we got together

(01:04:33):
and I said, hate me to meet. Can I meet
the other guys he's out taking anyone. Let's go meet
Mickey and let's go meet dating. So it's nineteen eighties,
six eighty five, eighty five, and so I find out
first of all that they don't own the name the Monkeys.
I didn't know that. Um. So I had to go
to Columbia Pictures and I had to get the name

(01:04:55):
for the name the Monkeys. So I call up the
guy the West Coast and he says to me, you
gotta call this guy in New York Licensing Department day
on the day they control the monkeys, and said, okay.
So I called the guy up and he says, to
the fish, up, take me to a take me to
a baseball game. He says, uh, I know who you are,

(01:05:15):
and I want to I want to go to a Yankee.
So I take them to a Yankee game. I call
up lou and I said, Luke, I said, I'm bringing
you guys. Will call me a pictures. Can you give
a baseball bat and the ball inside the ball before
he's a strugging, no problem. I bring the guy to
the game and I bring him on the field and
all of a sudden Reggie Jackson and fucking Dent and
all these players are coming over to me, heaving me

(01:05:37):
baseballs and signed baseballs and baseball globs. And I needed
garbage back to put all this stuff in there for
the guy. So um, I said to Bobby Mercer was
my client, and said, Bobby, tell me what what's going
on here? Why are all these guys coming on with me? Said? Well,
Lou got up at the in the in the club
bounces that are my agents, fish offers come with the project,
probably of pictures, and and I gart so go to

(01:06:03):
him and his friend, and all these guys came over.
They all want to be a show business, you know.
And uh so this guy was like blown away. We
said the game and I turned him and I said,
I want to buy the name the Monkeys. Let's want
to rent it for a year. And he said, David,
no one's used the name in twenty years. He says,
what do you want to give me? I said, you know,
give me five thous and and you know you can

(01:06:23):
have the name. So my bird, and that was just then.
I've put the other tour the Monkeys that that's gonna
be my third Halfit together to the monkeys, the hermit Hermits,
the grassroots and Gary Puckett and the Unique Gap and
I'll sill be my package and I'm gonna put it
out that summer. Unbeknownst to me, I'm in seventeen seventy five. Broadly,
I'm sharing office space with Gary Curfiss, the lake Gary

(01:06:45):
curves in front of me. I have um Blondie's walking
by my office all day, and I'm seeing the Ramones
the B fifty because the other side of the office
was was Chef Chef Gordon was up there. We're all
in this guy Bert Fidel's office and um, you know
what did they meet? Loost managers were there. Everybody was
up in that office, and m I'm on the seventies

(01:07:08):
seventy five, so I'm going up and down the elevators
of Bob Pittman and Tom Freston. And now you know
these days since since wasn't playing as great, you know
those before a six, you know, so people walk around
the street. They would see me with my jamaica. They
even said that sins. You know, we lost the bet.
You know, people were nasty in New York, you know,
so all of a sudden, a gentleman calls up from

(01:07:30):
Billboard back and he says, did you hear the MTV
is gonna be airy twenty four hours the Monkeys? And
I said no, And I said, well, I'm gonna go
up stairs. I run up stairs to Bob Pittman's office
and I said, Mr Pittman, Hi, I'm David Fishing. We
always see each other the ell you have the sports
stag and sit down. How can I help you? I said, well,
I'm doing the Monkeys as a summer tour. He's not

(01:07:51):
telling you the sports. I said, I do sports, but
I'm I'm doing the Monkey, said I do this package.
He's I'll make a deal with your kids. He says, uh,
you you mentioned my new fledging network, MTV in all
your ads as seen on MTV, and I'm gonna promote
you on television and you know and and TV. That's
a great He announces my tours. I go on sale

(01:08:15):
and I was selling at the time three thousand seeds
to Happen together tours. We do the nether Lands, all
the Empithuds. We're gonna sell in Chicago, Pine Pine, and
we do pineab in Detroit, Possla Creek. I still have
h twenty eight thousand tickets in in Chicago. Can you
imagine I'm going for one year doing three thousands, twenty
eight thousands Pineab We saw two Pineabs. We sell out

(01:08:40):
sixteen thousand night there. We sell out Texas Stadium, We
sell out everywhere. It's this is crazy. It's all these
little girls coming home and the and the mothers said,
where were you all night? Mommy? I was in live
buying monkey tickets. What do you mean I want to go?
So these girls didn't know that the Monkeys are an
all band. So the mothers came and they bought tickets

(01:09:01):
for the first fifty rows with the Monkeys. Well, it
was incredible. It was so over my head. But I,
you know, I lucked out. I was paying them salaries.
I put him in busses. Um, and then I eventually, um,
you know, we became we made a partnership when my
contract was over. Then I booked them in that the
following tour. And how about Ringo? How do you uh

(01:09:24):
come up with you all star band tours? So um,
then after I did Dirty Dancing, I did that as
a live tour, and um, the president of PEPSI came
to me and he said, you know, we love what
you do, and um, we want to sponsor the next tour.
It's the twenty fifth Anniversary's Gunny malapottas she came up
with the Pepsi generation. So he said to me, uh,

(01:09:45):
we want to sponsor your next tour and um, so
come up with some ideas. And I went back to
him with the idea of I have an idea to
ring on the All Star band and uh, he's what
do you want? And so I want a million dollars
and he said, um, he said, uh, a million dollars. Okay,
I'll make a deal with you. I'll give you a
million dollars to spots to you next tour, but I
want to make the next million and uh and then

(01:10:07):
we'll do fifty fifty yes, okay. I don't offer a
million dollars in my hands. And that's why I wrote
the Rainbow Star and I said, I have an offer
for a million dollars. What you do the tour and
do a tour? It was All Star band. And I
went over there and I got to meet him and uh,
Rose Lawyer a letter and says come on over. I
go over to England and back in those days didn't
have cell phones. And I remember taking all my Beatle

(01:10:29):
books with me reading it. And he didn't tell me
when he's gonna when I'm gonna get in there, said,
you're doing in there once, you know, for one of
these days, I'll call you in your room and you'll come.
I never left my room and I'm reading all these
Beetle books. I've only got a call Friday morning to
come to his office. And I went to those office
and I um pitched him on the idea. I walked
in with a radio commercial, you know, one those spots

(01:10:50):
It's coming love. I've been concert, you know. I wanted
him to see what my vision was. I brought an
ad and uh he turned to it and I was
thinking the same thing and he was he was thinking
the same thing, and so uh, that's how I came
up with the idea, and we we made a deal.
And what was more entice? What closed the deal? He
hadn't been on the road for all. Was it being

(01:11:11):
on the road and playing or was it the money? No,
I don't think it was the money. I think it
was I think because they have to pay all those
taxes in England. I think the money made it real
to him that I'm gonna guarantee the money naturally, you know,
I don't think it was to him as emplawyer and
business manager. The money, you know, the money money shows love,

(01:11:31):
you know, so it should. You know how many of
these artists today they really need the money. You're paying
the money, but many of them, you know, they want
the money, but I think the money it types them
that I was real, you know, I bet you. So
many people contact and said, hey, I want to manage
you and come on the road, and you'll make this
and make that. You know, you put a check in
front of someone's face, it makes a big difference. So um,

(01:11:53):
I offered him the million dollars, and the million dollars
was net to him, notting. I know, I took my million.
That was my idea, and I said, I'm going to
give it to him, and then I'll whatever i make
on the tour. Um you know, I'll get my paid.
I'll get paid. I'll get paid, you know. That was
the Positively. The deal with Pepsi was fifty fifty on
the profit. So the current I took that advance that

(01:12:16):
I got from Pepsi, and I gave that toringdo and so,
and then then came by. I wrote names of bands
of you know, band members. I did some reason a
couple of things slowly. Sure he was a million dollars
as much as Ringo was gonna make or was there
any upside for window? Well, in the end he wanted
more money and I gave him. I to give him

(01:12:37):
more money, and um, and I guaranteed a certain amount
of shows. You know, I think I remember how many shows?
Was twenty five shows? And um, you know it was
twenty five shows at the time, and um, but I
think there was I remember what the concept of the
all star band that was totally yours. It was my idea.
And Ringo said to me that morning, I was thinking

(01:13:00):
the same thing, and how did you come up with
that idea? Okay, so my brother, My brother was a
drummer and he idolized range Star and uh, I was Bob.
I wake up every morning thinking of the new idea.
I can't you know. I go through these books, these
Billboard books. I look for talent. I'm always thinking. My

(01:13:21):
brain does style. So I love rock Wall Fantasy Camp.
Every day. It keeps me. Hey, let me call Abby
Rode Studios. Let's do a camp there. Let's you know,
I'm always thinking. I'm always thinking. And you know, the
minute I stopped thinking, stuffy passion, I quick. But you know,
so I like these package tours and and to and
to get when you get a company like PEPs, he says,
we love what you're doing. You use Mountain dew and um,

(01:13:44):
you know it gives you validation, validation that you know
what you're doing. So, um, I was motivated. And uh
he hadn't been on the road. And and I was
a big Stan by the way, I loved Yellow Submarine
and all my friends, they were my favorite. So for
my bro Joe, he was the drummer. He had alized
rain Go, So you know, Joey was my incentive. And

(01:14:05):
uh so that was it. And how did you decide
on the other members of the band. So the other
members of the band. I gave my ideas. But then
he decided when he saw that this is gonna be real,
he called up Joe Walsh and he said we could
join my band. He called lev On Helm, he called
rit Rick Danko, Um, I think he called I called Mills,

(01:14:28):
I called Clarence. You know, I made my list and
you know, Billy Preston and together we put it together
and and it was brilliant. It was it was it
was really it was so much. So was magic. It
was really magic that that that tour, and that was
that was the tour. That was that was the magical tour. Okay,
you know as well as I that as well as

(01:14:49):
me that, Uh, people get star struck. So you're in
the room with Ringo. Are you star struck? Are you nervous?
Or he's just another guy? You and me both. No,
you can't be a fan that turns them off. But
what's going on through your head? I was never a fan,
you know. I was a fan of the Monkeys, you know,
but I realized once I met people, I would be disappointed. So, um,

(01:15:14):
I was a Neil Diamond fan. You know. I grew
up and if you see that movie the the Jazz
Singer and uh, you know I saw thirty times. I
fly down to Florida first class and fly him coach
because I come wanting to watch that. Still that's my story.
You know. I'm a cantus on. I do pray to
high holidays. My dad got sick and and then I
cut the meat. Neil Diamond. I walked into the deli.

(01:15:36):
He was sitting there with Larry King at uh what
was that deli? Umh ny? Now I walked to name
how every morning Larry King had breakfast Larry King and
then Neil Diamond and I sat down next to him,
and I like, I was mesmerized. And I realized the minute,
you know, you know, it just I he was the
only guy that I was really mesmerized to meet one day.

(01:15:57):
And then I got disappointed. So no, I wasn't um
with me. It's not it's not mesmerized by these people.
I just respect their counts. And I said, I can't
get on stage and do that. And no, I'm not
really MESMERI right, but I am. Listen Bringo star, no
question about it, you know. I mean it's a beatle

(01:16:17):
and I can see the way people reacted, and there
the questions that people ask the all day. Um. But
you know, they all put their feet and they put
their clothes on the same way, and they're more talented
that way. But I've never start stuff. Okay, all of
us have met it, you know, in the bus met
a lot of people. Hey, is there anybody you haven't
met who you would like to meet be anybody above

(01:16:41):
and beyond. I mean it's like Steven Tyler. Okay, he's
Steven Tyler in real life. He's not only that guy
on stage. And it's very because mostly people it's two
different people. He really lives up to the image. So
is there anybody you haven't met or a couple of
people go wow? I mean what inexperience? You know. I
gotta tell you. The interesting thing is the English I can.

(01:17:01):
I want to tell you share to the difference between
the English stars and the and the American rock stars.
The the English stars, it's a business. Bill Wyman, I'm
going to work. Roger Dolph, I'm gonna work. Nick Jagger,
I'm gonna work. This is a job. Their fathers were
labors and they go to be a rock stars is
a job. The American guys they want to be, you know,

(01:17:22):
they think they have to leave that crazy life. So
it's really a difference. Am I mesmerized? I'm not mesmerized
as much as I'm m I'm not star struck, but
I do respect to be in the presence of Roger Daltrey.
I mean, I love him. I think that what he
did get on that stage and do what they do.
Um or the or the songs that they people have written.

(01:17:45):
You know, I just respect them. That's so I love camp.
I get to meet all these great people. But some
people I wish I didn't me. Okay, So you keep
mentioning Roger Daltrey. You know there's business friends and they're
real friends. Are any of these musicians you real friends?
He would talk about you know what happened this day?
You'd call in between camps? Or is it really business

(01:18:07):
with all these people? Well, it's always business. It's all business.
But I have to tell you when a nine eleven happened.
I'm in New York. My first phone call came from
Roger Doltree. How's your family? So? He, to me is
a real friend. And we've had you know, listen, we've
had huge fights, him and I. You know, we've had disagreements.

(01:18:27):
Um and I remember writing him a long letter because
I was upset at him. Um. No, most you know,
I would say, it's all business with most people, but um, Rogers,
he's just different than all of them. You know, he
calls me after a camp, How was that? How was
that guy? How did he enjoy it? He? Yeah, he's
he's got a different heart than all of them. Okay,

(01:18:50):
so why did you decide to make the movie The
Rock Camp Moving? So I decided to do it because, Um,
Jeff Broke approached me from UM who was you know
rand Randy h One for a while and and he
was he He approached me and he said, um, you know,
he came to see the camps. So we hadn't seen
each other a long time. He went to work with

(01:19:12):
um Bob Pittman a O L. And he went to
the NBC and and he can't see the camp. He see,
you know, you should do this as a film, And
I I said, on one condition, I don't want to
be in the film. I said, I don't want to
have anything to do with it. I said, you talked
about the rock cards of the people. You know. It's
one thing I did learn from Ringko. Every time I
go to him with an interview, he said, oh, give

(01:19:32):
it to Nils, give it to Billy Preston. He always
wanted to give it to everybody else. He wanted it
to be a band decision. And last thing I needed
was more publicity. Um, you know, I got kids. I
want to marry a moha, I got grandkids and the
last thing I needed more publicity and and um But
what happened was that they all came back and they

(01:19:52):
wanted me to be in it and tell the story.
So I said, okay, I'll do this. And what what
really motivated me to do it was yeah, many times, Bob,
do you go to a film and you see the trailer,
You see the trailer and you love the trailer, and
then obviously you see the film and you're so disappointed. Um.
Or you go to a concert and how many trying
to go to a concert and an artist starts playing

(01:20:14):
his new music. I can't stand that. But I felt
I can never tell the story about this rock camp
and it's frustrating. It to a thirty minute commercial, one
minute curse. But the magic is once to go into
those you go into that into that magical for four
and eights of rock camp and it's totally different. So
that's why I wanted to show us for the film.

(01:20:35):
I want to show you how credible your friend Jene
Simmons is that he comes to a camp. You know
that we could have a long conversation. But but but
before we yet the gene when was the movie idea hatched?
How much did it cost and who paid for it?
Five years ago? It was hatched five six years ago.
It was funded by Campers. I went and raised money,

(01:20:57):
UM and Jonah, Jeff Campers, you know, the best of
the money in it and cost over a million dollars. UM.
It wasn't supposed to cost that. I'll never make a
film again, UM, but it was. You know, basically, it
was very expensive, UM because it needed creatitors. Jeff didn't
take a penny until its UM. The artist all did

(01:21:19):
it for me. UM, and they were great in the
film and m but I'm hoping that we're gonna you look,
here's the biggest problem with rock Camp. Do you know
people scared to come? So you know, yeah, you have
you advertised Jeff Beck and I lost forty grands. How
can you lose money? I have the greatest guitar player
in the world there because everyone, you know, they're they're

(01:21:41):
afraid to come. I'm not Jemmy with Jeff Beck and
they're they're scared. So that's the je is the best ever.
But I want to acknowledge that. But let's go back.
What was your goal in making the film? Was it
more of an advertisement to spread the word or did
you want to make money? I want to make money.
I I wanted to show what it went done. I

(01:22:02):
want to show how people say. Well, I really want
to show that at any age, you could take any idea.
You want to be a musician, you want to write
a book, you want to create an app. I wanted
it to be to any age people could see a
thirty years old that it's not too late to do
relive your dream. And um, that's really why why I
wanted the film made. So Okay, the film comes out

(01:22:24):
on v O Day, it's plays theaters, but we're in COVID.
Hey why did you release it at this particular time?
B Did you think about making a deal with Amazon
or Netflix so that people didn't have to pay for
or maybe that's coming. I don't know. Okay, so we
released Typicals. We finally finished it, and uh and we
had to. We wanted to get it out and uh

(01:22:47):
and I think it's a great time to get the
film out because you know, the country needs It's unlike
any other you know, it's not a film like like
behind the music. You know, band makes it big and
then they build all their money and then they go
back again. So it's not one of those didn't want
to make that kind of film. Um. I didn't getting
interest in the beginning for Netflix or Amazon that would

(01:23:07):
have paid from enough for the film. And um, you know,
I we went to Netflix, but they weren't buying at
the time. And and I tell you and I also
thought about Amazon about Netflix is here. I saw the
Bruce Spring scene UM film on Broadway. It was great,
but you saw that they promoted for two days, three
days and minutes over here I can I got to

(01:23:28):
go with the movie theaters. I got critics to see it. Um,
I'm ninety two on Rotten Tomatoes. Um, and now gonna
go v O D is gonna go to Apple and
the February sixties and Amazon and then and I didn't
release it around the world yet, just here in America,
and then slowly I want to roll it out because
I want to do camps in England and South America
and in Japan and Australia. I want to take this

(01:23:50):
thing globally. So I wanted to go slowly with it
and see the reaction. And so it's been. It's it's
quite interesting, a new world for me, it's a new world.
On a business perspective, I thought it was a great
streaming flick for one of the platforms, primarily Netflix. I
look at the Motley Crew film, which was sort of
a cartoon. I'm not the biggest Crew fan, but I

(01:24:12):
enjoyed the film and word spreads. Of course. The best
example of this was in the eighties with Eddie and
the Cruisers. Was middling film in the theaters and it
played on HBO. Blew up, Well that's hoping is gonna happen? Yeah, okay,
let's go back. You said you had sixteen paying customers
at the first Rock camp. Needless to say, you lost money.

(01:24:34):
You're regrouped, and you said what So I okay, So
I did that camp and get all this press media
comes out and I found an investor for the first
time right away. He didn't want to do it. And
I'm at the Pulse Star convention in the year two
thousand and they're playing a game who Wants to Be
a Millionaire? With Tommy Lee, Tommy Shaw, and Sammy Hagar.

(01:24:57):
I think that was the three are up there and
it here at the right across street on Hollywood Highland
at Hotel and they're asking. One of the questions was
who created rock and roll Fence Camp. David Bowie, David Byrne,
David Fishop, and I think it was Tommy Show, Sam
Diego yells up David Fishop. I said, these guys remember
that camp I did, and I've done it four years ago.

(01:25:19):
And all of a sudden, then I got a call
from Eric Sherman, who was running bach on Classic, and
he said, you know, we'd love to do that camp.
We we got, we really want to, you know, get
behind you on it and we'll run commercials. So that's
when I decide do it again. I I called up
Brett Michaels. I think I know where I met Brett,
but I meant. And then George Starroger came to a

(01:25:40):
Ringo show. I called these people that I met at
Root Ringdow shows, um and uh called these artists uff
to come in and I said, hey, would you do
my rock roll Fence Camp. I'm gonna do it. Do
it here in l A. And I did a S
I R and and they came, and you know, Brett
was great, and people came. I advertised it. I did, Okay,

(01:26:00):
that's vatro Coxey. They gave me ads. It was great.
I did well. Okay. How much did you lose on
the first one? How about a hundred fifty thousands? Okay?
Was the second one profitable to you? It made about
fifty thousand, and I worked a whole year on it. Yeah, okay,
So the second one was the earlier part of this
century subsequent to then. How many of you done and

(01:26:24):
how frequently? And they all been profitable. I've done oh
sixty nine camps. Um, No, it's been a hard business.
We're honest with you. It was really hard, and uh um.
I tried to expand to go to Vegas. I was
running two if While I was running two camps, I'm
running the camps where these people are having the greatest experience,

(01:26:44):
and you know they get the jam with with def
Leppard and Joe Elliott. Joe Eli is getting the jam
but about the hopeful song and he's having a great time,
and all these people are meeting, and then I'm can't
wake up and I can't I can't wake up. I'm
losing my mind. I'm losing. I'm losing. I remember calling
here and he says, well, close it. He says closing,
and people and I went to see the count and
I moved to l A and then account and said

(01:27:06):
to me, why are you spending your kids money? You know,
it's like why do this? But every day I'm getting
an email thank you. It's a great experience of my life.
This artist is great. One morning I get an email
from a guy and signed McKenzie and company and it
was guy Scott Keller and he's still gotta thank you.

(01:27:26):
I got the gym with Judas Priest and my son
and I had the most incredible time. Right away, I
called him. I said, can I call you? Can I
take it a launch and get some advice? And he
turns to me and he's what's the problem. I said, now,
and said, this is a hard business. You know, it's
not like Coachella where you can expand the fences. It's
not an artist starting counsel blues and then going to

(01:27:47):
play a theater and then playing an arena. This is
four teen bands, one drummer to the band, one bass player.
You know you're limited, and you deal with people who
wants scared to come. So I said, this is a
hard business. And um, he says, I'm gonna take you
to dinner and he takes me to dinner with six
of his smartest people. He brings Amy how who ran Ticketmaster.

(01:28:08):
She came, she was a Mackenzie Scott comes, he brings
there's a band called they are Giants. He brings the father,
the guitar player. The guitar player comes and we have
this dinner and they basically said, David explained us the
issues of the camp, and I explained them the problems
and what I was having. And they said, you got
ten minutes to talk, and then we're gonna then we're

(01:28:28):
gonna ask you questions ten minutes and then anybody's gonna
shut the f up and let us give you some advice.
They went through my books. They they really analyzed the
business for me, and they basically said, his day, it's
very simple. You make ten dollars, stop spending twelve, spend nine,
spent eight. And they really turned my business around. And uh,
I need these bladings to tell me that, because you know,

(01:28:50):
I would keep adding more talent and whatever they taught me,
and I turned them to a profitable business. Where did
you cut what I taught? Well, I cut Vegas out.
I had a place in Vegas. I couldn't operate Vegas.
I'm not moving my family to Vegas. UM. So I
had a location there in Vegas, UM and you know,
I was getting ripped off with the gear, was getting

(01:29:12):
stolen out of the place, and um, I was trying
to open it as a rehearsal studio. I cut there.
I cut employees that I figured that I have to
do it myself, like you said, and and uh and
I brought it stef and and then I just learned
to I cut a lot of things and turn the
business around. So what so it turns around. How much

(01:29:33):
does it cost to go to Rock and Roll Fantasy Camp?
So rock Camp? So we charged about five thousand dollars
to go to camp. But it's we have to Each
camp is like setting up a tour, and then you know,
a band can augment that tour and you know, I
don't augment. They can advertize the tour over a hundred shows.
I don't advertize. And I closed my shop after that camp.

(01:29:53):
So these camps get expended. It all depends on the
on the talent cost. But I keep it relatively to
a point where where we can make some profits. And
it's not a lot, you know, but but enough that uh,
you can pay you know, you can you can make
a salary and you can pay people, and you know
you have people to operate it and the artists and
I think everyone has come to you know, they come

(01:30:14):
to understand that that you know, to their works and um.
But but the goals I want to make money is
I want to go back on the road with this.
And I'm not going on the road pot, but if
I could find someone to help me put it back
on the road. I did a couple of experiments. Number one,
I went to Irving as Off years ago and I said,

(01:30:34):
can I have the opening spot of your Deaf Leopard? Um?
Your Deaf Leopard? He he was touring Journey and Death Leppard.
I said, the stage is open from five thirty to seven.
Can I have that stage. I'll sell one day camp.
I'll sell one day camp and convertized experiment. And he said,
go do it. He said he was Irving was really
he was very supportive. And um so I when I

(01:30:57):
sold eighties spots for two thousand calls each, and um,
I had these people come into Columbus, Ohio. They came
in with six private planes. They came in from thirty
states and they got the opportunity to open the Deaf
leppert and Journey. I put them in a band um
with a rock star mentor was I think Simon Kirk
and Kick Winger and Rudy Sarzo and Vinnie Appassy, and

(01:31:21):
they would mentor the band all day. Um. Then five
o'clock they got to meet deaf Leppers and they got
the Journey and then each band went on stage and
did one song and it was great because the people
got to taste the brand. They went to the office
the next day and they said, uh, what do you do? Oh,
I put the Flipper in Journey last night. But but
what happened was these people bought forty tickets, fifty tickets

(01:31:44):
from all for other friends. So if you take eighty
people or a hundred people gonna buy tickets, I got
four thousand people coming to and see these people performed.
But I had a problem because the stage and and
everything like that. So the idea is a year later
and I went to House the Blues and I did
a tour where I did fifteen cities and again you

(01:32:05):
got to open for UM and that tour it was extreme.
With King Jackson was supposed to be bigger names, but
they got little snookered on the deal. But whatever it is, Um,
I did fifteen cities and I did really well and
gave people one day opportunities to doing the camp. Um.
So that's really what I want to do, and I'll
put it back on the road because everybody wants to
perform from their parents. They want to perform front of

(01:32:27):
their family. Like I said, the final night of Camp,
you see these executives how their families in the audience,
and and you know they're not holding up their middle finger,
but they're basically saying, hey, mom, I could have been
a rock star. You do have a little bit of
perception problem. Today's incommittee quality era where it is five k,
which is not mentioned in the movie. Is that just

(01:32:49):
is what it is? Or is there a way to
change the perception of the camp that it's for the elite? Okay,
so that's what it was. And I used to get
eighty five. I used to do. I did Abbey Road
Studios where you got to you know, record there, and
it was sixteen thousand. I've lowered the price way down.
People get to pay it off. Um. Yeah, no, I
know everybody thinks it's it's expensive. It's a cost of

(01:33:11):
safe thing to go on a cruise and you can
hang out. I'm not asking you to justify the price.
The price is great. But people who don't go, who
see the movie and hear the price, they say, oh,
that's for rich people. So it is perceived as an elite,
rich person's camp. I'm not talking about whether people call
up the money, right. It's perceived that way as people

(01:33:32):
because I've been doing this for years, So that's an excuse.
It sees. Listen, they'll see the film and uh and
and they and they go to camp. Um, I will
tell you that fifty cent on my campus return because
you know, once you take them to that excitement level
of four days, they go home, they get depressed. I
had a guy had a guy come back to camp

(01:33:53):
after two years, and I said, what, what what brought
you back? He said, I went to my therapist every
day and it said, you know I do by your
rock camp. And he says, why don't you go back
to camp? Well, the therapist took his money for two
years and then he says, I just can't make you
happen to go back. Okay, let's assume I lay my
five k down. What are you guaranteeing me? I'm not

(01:34:14):
guarantee any UM. I want to guarantee it was an experience. UM.
I never promised anyone your career. I'm so against that. UM.
More specific, I put him in five thousand dollars. Am
I gonna How much time am I gonna get with
the acts? How much free time or how much you know,
hanging like we both went to camp where it's all together.

(01:34:36):
It might be sitting in my room alone. When you
go to camp, where did you go to Cannath? I
went to Jewish camp in Connecticut. First of all, I
went to day camp for three years. Then the Jewish
Community Center of New Haven had an overnight camp in
East Madison called Camp Laurel Wood, which they still have
the best days of my life. I literally came home
and cried, I know exactly what you're talking about. So

(01:34:57):
you come to camp, by the way, so once you
signed up for camp up and you put your deposit
your money down, you get a letter from us telling
us what songs that you should prepare and and that
these are these artists are gonna be there, and you
want to prepare these songs, So people start studying their songs. Um.
Then so then a week before your your rock star

(01:35:17):
counselor calls you and you guys have a group meeting
and the guys and gals they pick songs that they're
gonna do and uh so, uh, what's the Rudy Sarzo
or Tony Franklin. They call you, and they and they
and we just sudden they come up with a song
list of what they want to do when they come
to camp. They walk in on Thursday, they go right away,
they go into pick a room to go into, whether

(01:35:40):
it's a jam room, it's a you know, a different
jam room. Then I come out and I basically announced
the rules of camp, which are no rules, um, but
basically I want them to prepare to to to record.
Let's say the camp I did with Joe Perry. Learn
narrow Snip song, Learn learn a Farno song because you're
gonna jam with mc graham. Um, you go to Vince

(01:36:01):
Neil is gonna come by to learn a Motley Crue songs.
So they basically prepare those songs and m and then
they have they go into the rooms with their bands
and they have rehearsals and uh, and then following rehearsals,
I have a lot of master classes. So if you
want to write songs, if you bring your songs, let's
see you brought us. You wrote a song, you want
to come to camp. You could sit around a panel,
you can hear, you get get people's opinion about the songs.

(01:36:24):
Then I do an opening night party because I want
the rock starts to jam. I want you to see
how how good these guys are. And these musicians are great.
You know they're great. Why are they're great because they
practice every day. Unlike this guy who's the weekend musician.
You know, he shows up on one hour, so you
really see how incredible talents that they are. The next
day they rehearsal and then Luke Graham comes in and

(01:36:47):
uh and he walks into a room and and they
get to you know, depending on the artist, you know,
like I telt flash dates for twelve hours. He janned
an hour with each man and and and you know
what's the names? Uh, Nick Mason. He stayed for four
days and he wrote a story about g Q. It
once they're they're I don't put a timeless They do
what they want to do and and uh so, you

(01:37:10):
know most people say and they jam a song and
then they do a Q and A and they answer
questions and then they take their photo and they signed
all the autographs and all that stuff. But then then
we do Q and A with them. And you know,
Joe Walsh was amazing. He stayed, you know, he stayed
for five hours, and he jammed with everybody. And then
he what I loved what he did was he turned

(01:37:30):
to every guitar place is now it's your turn. Now
it's your turn to laya lea a solo. And these
people froze. But he said, listen, you gotta fake it,
you know. And the the the information that meat loads,
the information that these artists have given to these people
is incredible, it really is. And and and they they

(01:37:50):
take a list. Okay, how many people go to a
camp eighty people? Eighty people. The relationships mainteens obsequent to
the camp, well, that's incredible, because every rocket, they all
make it meet their best friends. I can't every rock
star tells me they've met their best friend. Steven Tyler.
You know, he's flying away with the guy. You know,

(01:38:11):
there's there's always there's always some guys who planes, so
you know, naturally they make friends. You know, remember Joe
Perry was was in Vegas to the camp and John
b and Eliot's tour magic ain to me. He said,
you know, the airport's closed, the Boston snowed in. Is
there anyone here with the private plane? I said, that
guy over there, he's got a private plane. Asked him
and the guys to sure, I'll drive to get back.

(01:38:31):
He flew him back and and I went to his band.
I said, you know the guy who wants to leave.
And you know, what do you guys do about a drummer?
He says, thank god, David, we'll pay a drummer, get
a drummer in town. Well five found the drummer for him. Um.
But yeah, the friendships they make, and then and then
so the and there's not and again there's not only
rich guys there. These people make lots of friends when

(01:38:52):
they go on tour. Every artist has told me my
best friends I met at Rock and Roll Fans Camp.
You know when when when we were touring and I
was turning Rnko and even the monkeys, we always ran
out of the venue. We always ran out of venue.
No one ever wanted to meet a rock star. I'mlike
the country people. You know. I went to see took
my daughter and see Oprah, and she wanted to always
meet Oprah and and and on that show was Kenny

(01:39:14):
Chesney and Hoodie and it was a country show. And
she says to Kenny Chesney, she says, well, um, Kenny,
you know you meet your fans that uh you know,
you're so good to your fans. I go out there
and meet my fans five o'clock. I hug him. I
love them. They come out to my bus and she said,
who was the first? Continue on too? So I went
to anarrismonth show. So I haven't done anything to meet

(01:39:35):
Steven Tyler. So you know, rock stars always ran away
and um, unlike the country stars. How do you build
a show, build a camp? What's the key? I got
a lot of it's. I have a checklists. It started
first with the talent. UM. I try to UM, I
try to get a talent to come. I see the

(01:39:56):
Scorpions will come in to Vegas. I reached out to
them and UM prior to covid um and they said
they would do it. Uh. So now I got a
location and now I got a uh weekend in May,
I was gonna do the scorpions. Um. And then I
go find a location and I try to find in
a place where I got four key rehearsal rooms. That's
the hardest thing is to find the rehearsal rooms because

(01:40:18):
it's not everywhere that you have rehearsal space. UM. Once
I have that, UM, you know, I go out and
I signed my counselors and I have a great array
of counselors who who do camp and um who you
know Teddy Andreatas from Guns and Roses and he was
a keyboard. He played keyboard to them and you know
you get now listen, you gotta find good people that
that are gonna do it. The one thing I learned

(01:40:39):
with Ringo and Alice Cooper, the one thing they they
I learned from Ringo was, you know, we fought about
Dan Members. You know we thought about Jack Rose. It's
it's in there's a public book. It's a book about
it that that I fought with Ringo because I wanted
Jack Bruce because my brother was a cream fan and
I love Jack Bruce, so um, he didn't want him.
He bumped into him in the airport and I guess

(01:41:00):
Jack wasn't in his best shape back then. And um,
and you know, you want to tour with people that
you love, that you can work with, that you could
deal with. Alice Cooper said to me, it's it's I
gotta have a great band of people because I gotta
live with them. So it's not just musicianship, and some
people want to live with So it's the same thing
with counselors. You know, I meant Peter Tork in the Monkeys,
he called me, so I want to be a counselor.
And I said, okay, Peter, come and you know he

(01:41:22):
was my worth counselor. And I remember telling a journalist
that and he called me up. He says, you told
them I was the worth counselor, said Peter, people, you don't.
You have to have patience with people. You're gonna have to,
you know, leave your ego at the door. And you
know people will come over with him and they wanted
to ask him something, they want to get a picture.
So you need to have you need to be a
people person. Let me really, let me restate this, because

(01:41:44):
you were talking about Mackenzie and consulting on your act,
on your show. What is the look? How many stars
do you need? You know, you build a show, I
need X number of a players. Be what do you
need to get people to come? You need a star,
you need you needed one star, you need two stars.
I try to find the star that's going to jamp
with them the last night we will agree to do

(01:42:04):
the final night concert. Um. So that's where I start. UM.
I try to now keeping in genres. I try to
keep the metal guys with the metal guys. I'll try
to keep the rock guys with the rock guys that
keep it. And I did Alice and change and don't
couple of pilots, you know, you try to keep that together. Um.
You know when I get two or three good names,
and then then I'm ready to build. And then I

(01:42:26):
built my fourteen counselors out. Um. And then you know,
the location is important. It's a combination everything. Listen, It's
like what I did the ring go to I got
a lot of balls in the air. You gotta keep
a lot of balls in the air, and then you
hope they're gonna come together and and and that's really
what I snapped my fingers. We go to the ultimate
destination with rock Camp. What does it look like? It

(01:42:49):
was Abbey Road Studios. You got to record every old
studios and then you got no, that's that's what in
the past. If we go down the hypothetical future and
it were to max out your wildest dream, what would
it look like. I want to tourk I want to
be on I want to be on the road four
times a week, um, opening for a major act or

(01:43:10):
any act um that I can. I know I can
bring them a lot of people. Um. And I want
to sell packages where you can go on the road,
get on a tour bus and go on the road
for two weeks. I want I want to I want
to buy my way on an opening act and tour.
That to me is really where I want to go
and um and get Okay, this is rock Camp. Are

(01:43:31):
there any other promotion dreams that are yet unfulfilled that
you would like to complete and do well? I think
the film, you know, the film was the last thing
that I really uh you know, I've represented players who
won the World Series. Uh, Phil Simms, that's that's a
giant San Francisco for nights. I hit my mark on

(01:43:53):
on Gutta. Players have a had a Beatle, I worked
with a Beatle. Um work with you know, I think
we worked with the with a member of the Who.
And and Bill Wyman are only songs I think I've
I've lived that. Um, you know, I just like changing lives. Really, Bob,
you cannot imagine how fulfilling it is to open your

(01:44:14):
emails every day and someone saying you change my life. Um,
you know, I breast cancer and I came to a
camp and and now I'm I'm writing books. And I
decided that I didn't want I quit being a lawyer
because uh, I didn't want to live that life of being,
you know, doing stuff that's boring. I wanted to live

(01:44:35):
my passion. So the ladies today became a writer. She's
a fourteen books that are that are a number one
on Amazon. She writes, Um, you know, she writes fiction books.
I love that part. A guy says to me, he
came to my camp, and he says, I called him up.
I said, you're gonna come to the next camp. He said, say,
but I got good news, beads. I quit my job
on Wall Street. I am going to London school drumming.
The bad news is I can't report to come to

(01:44:57):
campers anywhere I said good good, or where a guy
stopped on the street. He says, how this is the
best look. Guy stopped you on the street in the
in New York about three years ago, he says, David,
he says that, Espishop Mark, I gotta thank you. I
just got back from Moscow. I said, we my band
opened for Harrelsmith. So what do you mean your band
opened harresmanth He says, yeah. He says, I met Joe
Perry and his manager at your camp and I my my,

(01:45:19):
my lead singer is in lives in Moscow, and I
kept calling her and I asked, can we open for
your band for Farrelsmith in Moscow? And until the manager said,
sent me the CD She's gave it over to Joe,
and Joe looked at and said, when I meet this
guy he met about rockets, let him open. I mean,
here's this is. I don't promise this, this shit happens,

(01:45:41):
and and I don't know. Okay, divorcing the external and
just starting with your internal. What is your greatest asset?
Why have you been successful? I think my my successes
is caring for people and passionate. You know, my dad
was a rabbi. My brother's a rabbi, my son in
laws a rabbi. I don't want to be a rabbi,
but all the day I saw I see these people

(01:46:03):
taking care of people and answering them and and you know,
and doing good. And so I had no ability to
be a rabbi. But I really enjoy um people. And uh,
you know, for a long time, I didn't want to
camp the counselors, the campers. I didn't want to meet him.
I had told somebody, you know, you you know, I can't,
I can't do it all. I gotta deal with these

(01:46:24):
rock stars. And then I realized how amazing these campers
are and who they are, and uh, and you know,
I got up there as a joke one day. I said,
you know, my entire life, I represented a beatle, a turtle,
a monkey, you name it. And all I did was
keep my stars away from you people. And now I
love you people because these are the people that keeping
me in business. So these these are good people. They're

(01:46:46):
they're great people. They're musicians who just decided to make
a get a real job, and they really want to
be a rector. Okay, David, this has been wonderful hearing
all your brushes with fame, how you made your ome life,
switched your own career. You obviously our ball of energy
and you can close anybody. Thanks so much for doing this,

(01:47:08):
really and honor. Thank you so much. And I gotta
thank you the reaction that I got on your review
in the film, it's probably the biggest reaction I got,
So thank you so much. Okay, until next time. This
is Bob Leftstons

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