Felix Cavaliere

Felix Cavaliere. The Rascal. The legend.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, brocome back to the Bob Westset's podcast. My
guest today is the Rascal himself, Felix Cavalier. Felix, great
to have you here. That's great to see you. Great
to see it's been a while. Just before we started,
we're talking about the pronunciation of your last name. Yes,
and you know many Anglo people will say Cavalier, You
say Cavaliery. You were talking about the italianate version. You

(00:31):
were talking about John Sebastan getting you in trouble. Tell
us a little bit more there. Well, what I was
saying is John Sebastian. You know, his real name is
is Italian. His last name is Puis and he speaks fluent,
fluent Italian. So we did a TV show back called
Deja View, and he announced me the correct way CAVALIERTI, well,

(00:53):
I have enough trouble. I lived down in Nashville. You
know what I mean. Nashville. They stop at calv they
don't even try the rest. I feel like calv It's
it's not that hard. So you know, as I say,
I'm proud of my heritage as most of us are,
and should know. Yeah, most people, some people change their name.
I never wanted to change my name. So why does
the New York boy end up living in Nashville? Came

(01:14):
down here on work, came down here many years ago,
and uh, the first thing that happened is I started
to see musicians that I knew. Stepping Wolf, Bobby Gaudio
came down here later. I mean, it was amazing. Two
of Bruce Springsteen's guys were here, one of no longer
with us, Danny, you know. But uh, I said, what's
going on down here? And they said, well, you know, man,

(01:34):
this is the place, this is where you want to
be for writing and for music. And I said, you're kidding.
He said, no, this is true. That's why we're all here. Well,
it is music city and there's no doubt about it. Okay,
So when did you first come down and how long
have you lived there permanently? I got here eighty eight
on a permanent basis. When I first came down, I
was on what they called the Caravan of Stars Dick

(01:57):
Clark tour in nineteen sixty seven six, and I remember
working here in the daytime and it was the hottest
place I've ever been in my life because we worked
in the afternoon. Never dreamt that I would be I'd
be living here. But it's an interesting place for especially
for musicians and also for bachelorette's. We are the bachelorette

(02:20):
capital of the USA. Yeah, you know, I read about it.
Why is that? Why is that? Because these people down
here had an idea. They built a two million square
foot convention center, and they they attracted, you know, the
people that they wanted to come in. The convention here
is the companies, the corporations, and one of them that

(02:40):
they were interested was the bachelorettes. So they're here and
I think the word is oi oi what vay? Oh
my god, it's it's crazy. I mean, you know, they
come down here just like you know, you can imagine
at a at a bachelor party what happens, only they
do this on the street in the open. They have
these little these little carts that go around where they

(03:02):
get loaded during the afternoon and clogged the streets up.
And it's very interesting. Okay, So you came there in
eight right, I certainly remember in the sixties and seventies
when the South was perceived as red deck and Republican.
Since you've been there, what is the change you've seen
in you know, thirty odd years. You know. The interesting

(03:23):
thing is this, I mean, obviously it's still a red state. However,
their their their patches, like for example, the city of
Nashville where so many of us have moved in that
it's kind of like purple now, you know what I mean,
it's not read anymore. So of course they're gonna change
that instantly. I mean, they're gonna redistrict and they're gonna
But I mean it's interesting because in the city of

(03:46):
uh Nashville, you know, they have a Democrat, they had
a Democratic administration. But in the rest of the state, no.
But I mean, like I say, it's just really interesting
because we're living down south. I'm living out south. So
you go back, you're talking about the Dick Clark caravan
and stars. Who else was on that tour and what
was that like? Well, I'll tell you Paul Revere and

(04:06):
the Raiders, my dear friend b J. B J. Thomas. Uh,
you know it was. It was so much fun. I mean,
those days are so different from now, you know, I mean,
uh we we uh we uh. Instead of being on
the bus where everyone else is, we rented one of
those RVs, you know, and we just you know, toured,

(04:29):
and so when the bus went to the show, we said,
we'll be right with you. You know, we take a
little detour and go down and see some of the sites,
you know. I mean I met my first wife on
that tour. I mean it was just you know, we
went to towns and cities that I never had heard of,
you know, in my life, you know, and you know,
in Kentucky and in Georgia and in Alabama, and you know,

(04:51):
we cemented a relationship down here with the the audience
because you know how they love soul music, R and
B and basically you know, we were a white R
and B band, so we we've always had a good
connection with the South. Okay, So who else was on
that tour and where were you? Were you the headliner

(05:12):
or was somebody else the headliner? No, I I don't
know headliner. I just know, you know, we we were
coming up. We were you know, we had just had
a couple of records hit, you know, and stuff like that,
and you know, b J was there, Paul Revere was there,
you know, and Mark Lindsay was there. Uh, you know,
of course with them. Uh and and I don't remember
any of the other ones, But boy, I tell you
it was it was a lot of fun. So how

(05:33):
did you meet your wife? Your first wife? Well, it's
it's just one of those things where somebody good looking
comes to the show and you know, you hook up.
I mean, it's that's very simple when you're when you're
young and you know, ready to rock and roll. You know,
it was really really, it was really great. Well let's
start with the first question, because now they're smartphone cameras
and it's change going on the road completely. Oh yes,
But for decades before that, young men went on the road,

(05:57):
did a lot of drugs, screwed a lot women. What
was your experience because you were at the beginning of Oh,
you know, I always remember Eddie Murphy when he started
talking about like, you know, in his day he could
do with these things without you know, exploding. I don't
know if you remember that bit he did. It was
very it was wide open in those days, you know,
the the uh summer of love so to speak, that

(06:19):
we talked about. I mean I mentioned that all the time.
It was really very very open in terms of you know,
like relationships with women of course, and with you know,
like of course, the drug situation. But it was all
kind of like in the beginning, it was very innocent,
you know, And and so I mean seriously, I mean
I remember working in California. When we first went to California,

(06:43):
we worked at the uh the Whiskey a go Go,
and there was a little place probably still there called
a Tropicana Motel, which is all we could have. Actually, no,
they tore it down with Duke's Coffee, you know, Yes,
legendary place, but they finally tore it down. And you know,
the point I was trying to make is that in evening,
when the sun goes down, there would be a knock

(07:03):
on the door and there would be sometimes this lovely
lady coming over and saying, can I stay here? I
got no place to stay? And you know, like you're
saying to yourself, am I dreaming? You know, so I
must be dreaming. But nowadays you wouldn't even open the door,
you know, I mean, you know, it would be well,
let's see what do you want with me? Harm what

(07:26):
do you what are you thinking here? Oh my god?
It was so different, you know, and you know it
less legendary. You know, when they did the Ultamont you know,
when the drugs started to become more serious and more
more deadly, more dangerous. Then of course, the the the
the the kind of naivete just kind of disappear. You know,
it went away, and you know it stayed away, so

(07:47):
you let the girl in, of course I did. Let's
also talk about drugs, because at first you were innocent.
What was your career in shall we say illegal drugs? Well,
you know, it's interesting that you know a lot of
us uh emulate people that we admire, you know, and
with all due respect people that I admire, we're doing drugs. Uh.

(08:09):
For example, Ray Charles. Uh So I was in the
impression that, you know, wow, if if you want to
be Ray Charles, you gotta you gotta do some things,
you know. And uh, what started off as an innocent
kind of like interest, you know, got to a point
where it might be dangerous. And and then, uh, as
I say, and you know in my book, I joined

(08:29):
the Joey D and the Starlighters and Joey D's band.
They were a lot older than I was. I mean,
they were obviously more mature and more into the so
when they started you know, getting me involved with let
sat marijuana, I couldn't find my feet, I couldn't tie
my shoes with it was I mean, it was like
a different thing, you know. Uh, it was strong, and

(08:51):
you know, in those days, people were really really careful
about even leaving a little seed around, you know, because
it was so illegal. You know. Now you go to
the store and you buy it. But fortunately, you know,
I got off that ship when I met my guru,
when I met my Swamy, Sacha dan Nanda, I realized, uh,

(09:15):
this is not gonna work. And you know, it's really
interesting because you go through I'm sure a lot of
the people know how the transition between can I go
on stage straight and be good? You're doing right? You can,
but you don't know that because you have these crutches,
you know. So it was it interesting. You know, it
was a learning experience for me, and I'm sure for
a lot of people. Did you do anything more significant

(09:38):
than marijuana and hash, cocaine, heroin? Well, you know, uh,
in those days, uh, you know, we would go to
for example, of San Francisco and some of these people say, hey, man,
I just made this. You want to try it now?
I'm high for three days. So but you know, yeah,
we I really did because I don't know if people

(10:01):
understand the experimenting stage that a lot of us in
the sixties were, you know, we were fearless. Most most
young people are feelers, you know, and uh, we just
wanted to explore the universe, you know, explore the cosmic
kind of like air up there. And you know I
wouldn't do it again, I mean honestly, but uh, you know,

(10:22):
I wasn't afraid, so I tried it, tried things, you know,
nothing really I never got I never liked being sad
or down, so I never did any of those things. Okay,
So then the question becomes writing, were drugs beneficial, irrelevant, inspirational?
I don't know. I mean, I really don't know. I
think that you know, as I say, when when you
try to do things without any kind of like stimulus,

(10:45):
you know, like I g Allan Poe, I mean, you
know the classic you know what he did, you know,
probably was cocaine. If I'm not mistaken to write, it's
not necessary to do that. The whole thing, you know, basically,
when when people create is they get into a places
it's sort of like a meditative state. It's sort of
like a dream like state, which if you can induce

(11:06):
without you know, external you know, or internal stimulus, you
can do the same thing. But a lot of people
that can't stop, you know, the so called monkey mind,
you know, so they need something to chill, you know,
something to get to that place. Fortunately, I've always been
able to get to that place because as a young boy, Um,

(11:26):
you know, I was studying classical piano, and I had
you know, a piano in my home, and and and
and and I used to just go there and sit
and I could escape into this place that I'm talking
about what creativity exists. You know, it's right here, just
before you go to sleep. There's a kind of a
place you kind of float around a little bit. If

(11:47):
you can get there. You can get there by meditation. Uh.
It's really interesting because I remember as a little boy,
you know, I always have a thing now because you know,
sometimes we have to of these shows in the round.
I never liked anybody behind me while I'm in my
trance because my dad rest his soul, you know, he

(12:09):
was a very conservative guy who was a dentist, you know,
and he would not realize that I wasn't another planet
when I was playing the piano, and he would go,
are you ready to eat? Oh my goodness, you know hello?
You know? Uh no, so uh, you know, as I say,
I don't really think you need drugs to do anything. Okay,
you have a new book, Memoir of a Rascal. What's

(12:30):
the backstory? Why a book? Now? Okay? Two thousand thirteen
Steve van Z and matterface of the last time I
saw he was in those uh wanted us to do
a kind of like a Broadway show. So he took
a title of one of our albums, once upon a Dream,
and we we embarked on this whatever you want to

(12:50):
call it, magical mystery tour. And uh. During this process,
there was a number of press conferences. Okay, so the
four of us were sitting at you know, and just
you know, they depressed, would ask questions, and I noticed
everyone had a different answer for the same question. And

(13:11):
I started to say, wait a second, do you think
really that the Pearl Harbor happened? Or was it somebody
that just was there that said it? You know, I
mean you say, wait a second, I was there. That's
not what I remember. Maybe I should write a book
and just kind of like say my story that that's
how it started. Okay, But the other thing in the book,

(13:34):
you give a lot of credit to your new manager Obie. Yeah,
so tell us about him in your relationship. Okay, So
here here's the situation. Was my we call him Abby
Abby Abbi Steinman. He's in his fifties. So here's the
here's here's the rub. And if he was only born
when we were rascals, if he was only born, you know,

(13:58):
I don't have to tell you normal and everything I read.
I read your stuff all the time. It's the music business.
It's not the music music. Most of us are musicians,
were not businessmen. If you have that link to the
business world, you've got a really good chance of having
a career that's successful. If you don't have that, it's

(14:21):
very very difficult to especially in today's modern world where marketing,
you know, you take a person like goth Brooks. I mean,
he was a marketing major. Look what he did. I mean,
what can you say? I mean, you can't you mean,
that's brilliant. We never really had that type of acumen
in in the business department, in our in our management.

(14:43):
With all due respect to Sid Bernstein and and and
his ilk uh, they weren't you know, like, um, they
weren't aware of what we needed to do the the
the UH in those days. They were these columnists like
Walter Winchell and just some of these the people that had,
you know, in the New York Post and stuff like that.
Ed Sullivan was one of those people. That's how you

(15:05):
got your advertisement. You know. This is pre MTV, this
is prehistoric, you know. So Abbie came in with all
the new UH ideas, you know, just as as as
an idea, you know, like for example, we do a concert,
you know, we do a live show, I go out
with Felix, Cavaleries, Rascals, Um, I advertise my own shows.

(15:27):
Now we never even dreamt of that, Neil Is, because
the promoter would do that. Well, that doesn't happen anymore.
So we kind of, you know, we we we we
buy ads, or we do podcasts, or we do radio
interviews to bring people to fill the seats because if
you fill the seats, you go back and if you
don't next you know, it's so different today. I mean,

(15:51):
it's just amazing, you know. Okay, So the book is
very good because it's not about nuts and bolts. It's
more about the experience. But in the experience. Not everybody
looks good. Were you anxious about writing some of that stuff?
Did you contact people and say, hey, I'm gonna write this.

(16:11):
What do you think? Well, I think the word is yes,
we were. I was very anxious. I've had an unfortunately,
you know, a lot, a lot of disappointment with my
old band members. That's the nicest word that I can
think of, uh, in terms of the way they have
behaved after you know, the group broke up. Um, you know,

(16:33):
I mean it's just sad, you know, really when you
go backwards. So I was obviously very very careful not
to say anything that would ruffle feathers of people who
you know, I really loved. I mean, I just disappointed
in their actions. But we were brothers, you know, so
to speak. And you know, I'm wondering if if it's

(16:54):
Mr Putin's ego that's destroying this this planet, you know,
because it's certainly leaves though, well that's what destroyed us
the same thing, you know. So I have to be
very careful of that because you know, the lawyers are
making a lot of money these days. Okay, So did
you have a pre existing relationship with Steven Van ZANDT
or did he just track you down and say I

(17:16):
have an idea? Yes and no. I mean basically I
was in touch with Steve. You know, my my drummer,
Dino Dannelli, was part of his uh his Disciples of Soul.
I think I did a couple of sessions for his albums,
so I kind of knew of him and about him,
you know, and uh, you know, the the real uh
kind of link came when we were brought into the

(17:40):
Hall of Fame, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,
and you know, basically for those that don't know that story,
you know, the Hall of Fame how it works is
there's a nominating committee, uh that if you're not on
the in the nominations, obviously there's no way you can
get in. I mean we all, we meaning the inductees,
we vote for the you know, the next year's uh

(18:03):
uh induction inductions, but we don't nominate. So the people
who nominate are really really important. Steve was one of
those people that put our name in front of the
panel all the time. There were a few others too,
and I'm proud to mention them. I mean, Phil phil
Spector was a big help to us. Frankie Valley, big

(18:24):
help to us, Dion Demucci, big help to us. A
lot of people really put our names on the committee.
So when Steve did basically, um, this is the interesting
part is that he wanted to do the introduction, the
induction ceremony. And I don't know if you saw that,
but it was classic. It was classic and and and

(18:45):
as you know, uh, that's how he got the part
in the sopranos. He was contacted because it was really brilliant.
And he told me later he said, I had another
hair flower, but I was embarrassed to do it. It
was really good. So did it end up being the
stage show Once upon a Dream? God, I'm losing track
of time. But many years later, turnround to thirteen, around

(19:07):
to twelve. I mean, it's really very interesting here. You
know how God works, you know, because it's so it's
just I got a call from one of my daughters,
you know, the rest her soul. She says, Dad, don't
get excited. I got a little lump in my breast.
I said, oh my goodness, what can you say? Not

(19:28):
even not even the next hour, maybe the next three hours.
I get a call from Steve van zand out of
the Blue, Bruce and I do this Kristen Carr Cancer
Research concert every year. Would you be interested in reuniting
the rascals to do that? What could I say? I mean,

(19:51):
I hadn't seen these guys since with the Hall of Fame,
which is this is like, you know, not not not
quite ten but whatever, it was more than that years.
I said, yes, you know, and and so we went
to um, uh what's his name's club down there? Uh,

(20:12):
I can't remember, down down down in uh uh Alec
Bowen's place, I guess you know, No, not Alec, I'm sorry,
Scorry was it was Robert de Niro's place, excuse me?
And uh we did a concert down there. We did
a show down there. It was five thousand dollars a
ticket was all for cancer. And obviously I met a
lot of doctors and a lot of people who could
help my kid, kept my daughter, you know. So that

(20:35):
was the beginning. And then, as fate would have it,
you know, everybody said, hey, you guys want to do
this again, you want to do something, And now I
knew I was in trouble. You know, now I knew
It's kind of like, you know, if you get a divorce,
you know, and somebody says, hey, would you would you
like to go back with your ex? And I said,

(20:55):
not really, Well why don't you try? You guys were
so good together? Said yeah, okay, but you see the scar.
Oh anyway, So that's how it happened. And and then
the rest was kind of like a snowball going down
the hill, you know, because yeah, you guys were good.
You know, we were good. That was good. Why don't
we and we started they started talking, bringing up ideas,

(21:19):
And that's that's when life really comes becomes complicated, because
you know, I mean, I understand why people. I mean,
I remember my my manager the old day, said Bernstein
used to get in trouble, Old Tom trying to reunite
the Beatles. I want to put the Beatles together. We
don't want to be together. We don't want to be together.
But there's a there's a desire for people to see

(21:39):
the people that they loved up on stage again, you know.
And and so that's how it happened. It kind of
like snowballed. Well, how did it become a Broadway show?
A whole production is opposed to just a concert? I think,
you know, Steve had an idea besides just doing a

(22:03):
uh a show like a so called you know, concert,
to include a kind of another dimension in terms of lights. Uh.
And because he had this this gentleman who Mark Brittman,
who who did this phenomenal lighter. He did the Empire State.
He's doing the Empire State building as we speak. So

(22:25):
he had done uh lights for Bruce and I think
he did YouTube or somebody he did, uh maybe Pink Floyd.
He was good, really good. So that was the ideas
to make the whole theater into like a light universe,
you know. And then he wanted to do a video,
and the video was was was to be a story.

(22:47):
So I think in his mind in the beginning he
had always this this concept to do a Broadway show
or a show you know, I mean Jersey Boys. Certainly,
you know, it was quite effective it or so I
think that was it was in his mind. And and
basically what happened is we sat down and uh. He

(23:09):
had originally written a story and I said, you know, Alison,
when the land has already been done, there's none of
this story that's real, so you know, let me tell
you what happened. And he did that with each of us.
And I think what happened is he put together like
a script, you know, and and that's how that happened.
What was your viewpoint on that? In in addition, it

(23:31):
started off at New York, then went on the road,
and he was funding it and it wasn't profitable. You know,
I really can only go by the critics, you know,
what they said of it. You know, my view of
it is um is entirely different. You know, sometimes when
you go on stage, you know, we we have sometimes

(23:52):
you know, we have to two places where sound is
is exuded from. You know, one is the the audience.
They they hear what we're projecting. But we also here
in our own monitors, like these headphones, what we sound
like on stage. And you know, you come to realize
that unless you're in the Bruce, you know, bruiser, you
two category Billy Joel category, you may not hear on

(24:15):
stage what you'd like to hear. However, you're not playing
for yourself. You're playing for the audience. So my views
of what's good and what's not good they're a little
you know, they're a little little biased because I I
did not like the structures. See I I like to
be a free free agent. You I mean, I don't

(24:37):
like being tied down to where you got thirty seconds
and then the commercial starts, or you know, fifteen seconds
and then you know, the drums come in. I don't
like that. I like more of a jazz you know. Um.
You know, for example, when I first was learning music, uh,
my mom arrested. So she wanted me to be a
classical pianist. So I would sit down with it with

(24:58):
the piano, and I'd sit down with the mu is
it and I play, and the teacher had a ruler.
In those days, you know, this is when you could
beat up your clients, you know, your students, and man,
what are you doing? She says, well, that's not how
it's written. Oh, in other words, like I can't do that.
In other words, you can't put the left hand down
before the right hand because it makes it that Oh

(25:18):
you can't do that. It makes an eco. It sounds cood.
He can't do it. That's not how he wanted it.
That's the way I felt. I felt very restricted because
it was you know, it was all timed. You know.
I when when when I get an idea, you know,
I'd like to you know do it? You know, and
I think the audience, you know, everybody says to us
all the time, Hey, how can you do those songs

(25:39):
over and over and over and over and over and over?
Where I can do them over and over because I'm
creating as I'm doing them, We're making new things happen.
Maybe they're very nuanced and very small, but they're there. Well,
I knew I felt very restricted. So how did it end?
And in the book you talk about trying to put
it together without all the production, and that doesn't come together.

(26:00):
So tie those stories. Yeah, exactly. Well it ended when
we got a like a kind of like an email.
I used to be a telegram, remember, but it said
guess what the show is over? And it says it
was on my birthday as a matter of fact, you know,
it was a November twenty nine, and all of a
sudden it's done. Uh. You know, there's a lot of

(26:21):
reasons why things don't make money. Um, none of them.
Were the rascals falled? That's the nicest way I can
say that. Okay, And why couldn't you reunite the being well,
the bands were united. Why couldn't you convince everybody to
go out just as the rascal. Well, you know that
that's really the interesting thing, you know, because uh, you know, uh,

(26:45):
there's a chapter in the book where one of one
of my dear friends who I grew up with, said,
with the stupidest rock and roll band in the world.
You know, most people who don't have a lot of
money and somebody offers them a lot of money, they
go and try to get a lot of money, you know,
like you know the stories about you know, the Eagles,

(27:07):
you know, and you know how they you know, however,
and keeps them together, you know, and and they're making zillions.
You know, my guys don't think like that. As a
matter of fact, my guys don't think so. I couldn't
do it. I could not reunite or reconvene because you know,
the Stones do they get along? Who cares? They play

(27:28):
great together and they go home. You know what I'm saying.
I could not do that. I could not get these
guys to say, hey, look, you know, the clocks ticking.
You know what I'm saying, we are not going to
be able to do this much longer. And now, unfortunately
that that is definitely the case. There's a lot of illness.
Why don't we do it and just do it and
you know, satisfying. Not only are fans which you know,

(27:50):
they're begging us to do this, but you know, let's
just put a closure on, you know, let's let's let's
get Oh and by the way, let's make a little money.
Is there's nothing, there's no friend of mine wrote a
song called It's not the money, It's the money. Oh yeah,
famous music pieces expression. So you know, I mean, it
is something wrong with that. I couldn't do it. So
you know, I tried, and a lot of other people

(28:11):
have tried, a lot of people, famous people, you know,
Shelley Finkel, Jim Coplick, you know, uh, you know, important promoters,
powerful people, Abby Obvi Steinman. Uh. You know, you just
can't explain it. Okay, you're talking as if you're the
driving force and leader of the band. When the band

(28:31):
broke to the general public, Eddie was the front man,
but he didn't sing all the songs. In addition, then
you started composing songs, and as time evolved, you had
an equal, if not more dominant face. But my question
is more simplistic. Were you always the leader of the
band and driving force or did that evolve over time? Yes,

(28:55):
simple as that I started the band. I was the
only one that had trying putation to take the equipment.
I was the only one who kept the books. I
was the only one that paid the bills. Yes, I
had the idea. I wanted it to happen. But you know,
it's so interesting because how is a communist? And I

(29:16):
didn't realize that communism only works in heaven. It doesn't
work on earth, you know. I I just you know,
I said, man, I just want to get a bunch
of guys that really sing and play well together. Man,
and they you know, they're really talented. Man, Let's go
out and conquer the world. That's why I always wanted brothers.
I never had a brother. You know, if I had

(29:37):
a b G family, forget about it. We take over
the planet. So, you know, I I just put them
together like that. And and and I and I and
I had a vision. I had a sound vision, you know,
and and uh, you know, it really was a wake
up call to me to see, you know, other people
and how they you know, I mean, for example, you know,

(29:58):
when you would do interviews in the old is and
they would ask each of us you know, the teen magazine.
What what did you want to be when you, you you know,
grew up. Did you have any plans? And I was
shocked to hear the plans that these guys, because in
many cases they had no plans, you know, say, oh, okay,
so ambition, desire, you know, well, you know I had.

(30:19):
I had the desire and the ambition, and and thank lord,
I had the talent. So I I wanted it to happen.
But I never really cared, you know about whether you know,
I'm in the front of the band. I'm taking care
of the music back here. Man, I'm I'm fine, I'm
doing great, you know. But Eddie kind of fizzled out,
you know, he didn't. He didn't. He didn't look at

(30:41):
it like that. He he um. And he just kind
of felt like, wow, I want to go home. I said, well,
what do you mean? What what do you mean you
want to go home? I don't really want to go
on the road too much. What you have more fun
than all of us put together. You know. He was
the wildest man in the world, you know at that time.
I mean, the road managers would come up to me
at the other and I say, please send someone out

(31:01):
after the show with him. I've got to get some rest,
you know. And here he wanted to go home. He
just wanted to be around his his folks all the time.
Very interesting story, I mean, if I may, just you know,
when the Buddy Holly tragedy happened, you know, and and
all those people, Uh, that was the same plane that

(31:22):
um Joey d and the Starlight is not I don't know.
It was a week or two before we're on, you
know what I mean. So his brother David Eddi's brother David,
that was it. Fear of flying, you know, we don't
want to get on airplanes. Oh well, that's fun. How
are we going to do Hawaii? If you know what,
the ocean ane'll take us two months to get No,

(31:44):
I think so all of these things came into you know,
the music part of our lives and the creative part
of our lives was only you know that It wasn't
like their individual personalities. But I didn't know anything about
these guys. We weren't didn't grow up together as thing
like that, you know. So when you see you know,
people's uh, you know, life stories totally different from mine,

(32:07):
you know, totally different. And I think that's that's the
that's the problem. What did it have happened with three
completely different guys? You know, I don't think so. I
think there's a special thing about groups. I always felt
that way, And you know, when we did the Broadway
Show it was perfect example for some reason. You know,
I use the word God who used whatever word you want,

(32:27):
puts together certain individuals that have a special sympathico together,
a special magic together. Because during that that that time,
when we did that Broadway show, it started off pretty
rough because a lot of the uh like Dino for example,
really hadn't been playing. You know, his chops were all
they were not they're out there. Eddie hadn't been singing,
so there was no But after a while the magic

(32:50):
came in. So and answer you to your question, I
don't think it would happen with other people. You've never know.
Once the band broke up the early seventies, in two
you reunite and do this thing with Steve van Zan.
How much contact did you have with the other members
across from the litigation table. Yeah, it was not a

(33:16):
pleasant experience. Yeah, No, we really didn't have much contact.
I tried to uh reinvent the the writing team, myself
and Eddie many times over the years because I said
that we don't have to work, we don't have to
go on the road, we don't have to even sing,
but we can certainly, right, why don't we do that?
You know? And I really was unable to do that

(33:37):
as well, you know, so we just separated. We did
a tour in night without Eddie. We did uh, we
did that wonderful Atlantic reunion, uh was it forty year anniversary,
which was just oh man, that was so much fun.
Oh my god. I mean, here you are with all
these these groups you know, that are in one place

(33:57):
at one time. That that was a lot of and
and he didn't do that either, So he didn't do it,
you know, And so we didn't really have much contact
when we got to the Hall of Fame evening. It
was unfortunate that that wasn't a real pleasant experience either,
you know. I mean it should have been, you know,
but um, that's just so much, you know, it's just

(34:18):
really difficult to discuss. You talk about the litigation. What
was all the litigation about? Wow? Well, you know, um, well,
right now, I mean the name, the name, the name,
the situation, you know. I was on the impression when
you leave a band and you you don't want to
use the name, that somebody else should be able to
use the name. But I guess people don't think like that,

(34:38):
you know, uh, A lot of things that there's a
lot of just misunderstandings, you know that, you know, without
going into detail, because I purposely left that out of
the book because who cares, you know, I mean, well,
what's the problem. You know, I noticed some people like
for example, you know, uh, like for example Mr Putin,
I think he has an idea that these countries that

(35:00):
have become free and independent really belong to the Soviet
Union that was dissolved. He's wrong. But try to tell
somebody that, and then that somebody goes to an attorney
and talk to the attorney into saying, well, how about
if we see if this is viable? You know, and
in England, you know, if you if you, if you

(35:23):
sue and and it doesn't doesn't happen, you pay, you know,
you pay the the the what you're looking for, plus
the legal fees. But in America, bring it on, man,
don't worry about it. We got your coverage. Just pay
to pay the lawyers and you know it's just it's sad.
You know, they call them frivolous suits. So there you go. Okay.

(35:43):
One statement that really sticks out in your book is
that you sold the publishing. Yeah, was it like Creden's
Clearwater Revival where you sold a hundred percent we're just
the ownership share and retained the raider's share. What was
going on there, Well, we retained the right to share,
but you know, the the tragedy was you know, and
again in nineteen seventy approached me too. Uh Eddie Brigotti

(36:08):
decided to abandon ship. Actually the nineteen seventy we were
free agents. We had five years with the Atlantic and uh,
I say this in the book as well that uh
Atlantic didn't want to resign the rascals. They wanted to
resign me, but they didn't want the rascals were a
little bit too uh out of control in terms of

(36:32):
uh you know, like direction and you know, like continuity,
and you know, the output was was not there because
you know, people weren't weren't doing their jobs. So we
went to Columbia and it was a major step because
you know, Clive Davis was over there and uh, you
know Colombia and I digress, but I mean, you know,

(36:52):
Columbia was always an international label, whereas Atlantic in the
early days was not. You know, in Atlantic, we had
a different record company in every in every country of
the world, and it was you know, you got you
got twenty people stealing from you said one, you know.
But I mean the interesting thing is that when Zeppelin
came along, you know, uh, at that time, Atlantic merged

(37:17):
with Warner Brothers. So now there was one label. So
when you put out a Warner Brothers or an Atlantic product,
it became internationally. Thus single or the album we didn't
have that, you know, we had, and so basically we
were just a little bit before the international you know.
I mean the platinum records were just starting. You know,

(37:38):
Cream I think had the first platinum album, and you know, uh,
so you know, it was a major, major difference, you know.
So um, you know, as I say, you know, you
just try to continue. But what happened at that time
when Eddie decided to leave, is that the you know,
it's kind of like it's the same as a divorce,

(37:59):
it's the same as a corporation just dissolving. You know,
Now that the legal issues come up where you've got
to divide, you know, divide everything, and this is yours,
this is your microphone, you know, all that kind of
stuff to stock well for some reason. And again, you know,
this is where it gets a little, a little little gray,
because you know, I was still you know, as in

(38:20):
my late twenties, you know, and I hadn't really developed
much negativity to the world. You know, I was kind
of like, you know, still in la la land as
far as like, man, this is the coolest thing. I
enjoyed myself so much. I mean, I don't care how
many arguments we had. That was having a band and
being successful and being on the road. It was really fun.

(38:41):
But it was really a dream come true. And you
like my music? Oh you want to hear? Are you
kidding me? What more could I possibly ask? Oh? Oh
the sun isn't shining every day? Oh, but that didn't
hit me. So when people within our group of advisors
came up with an idea to sell a power ishing,

(39:01):
it was also met with Brigotti wanted to cash in,
you know, all his chips and just wash his hands
and the whole thing. Terrible decision. As a matter of fact,
there was a gentleman. But I don't even West Farrell,
who is no longer with us. West Farrell had a
an artist that wanted to record our song, one of

(39:22):
our songs. How can I be sure? David Cassidy, you know,
who was a major Rascal fan by the way, and anyway,
that that predicated the sale. And it was a total mistake,
you know, and and and and it was so sad
because the only the only people who did not want
it to happen. We're not invited to the meeting, to
the transaction. And you know, as a young man, you know,

(39:47):
especially being you know Italian Salli. Man, you because the
hell with these guys, Dad with it, take it go.
You don't realize what are you saying? Man? You know
what I mean? This is a bad move, especially when
you see the people now who are you know, really
cashing in their chips on the publishing because we always
were told that the publishing was the manna of our industry,

(40:08):
the songs. That's that's really where it's at, you know,
I mean asked Mr McCartney. You know, I mean he
when he gets a record deal, he doesn't take money,
he doesn't want need money. He takes publishing. You know,
he owns all of the songs that you hear when
you go to a football game. He owns the whole halftime.
You know, he owns frank music. You know, very very

(40:29):
very very smart, because that used to be and I
hope it still is. Where the where the real money was.
You know, So that was a bad mistake on our part. Okay,
but you reteen, your writer's share. Has that writer's share
been enough to keep you in good financial state over
the decades? Well to a degree, yes, But I mean

(40:49):
I had to put you know, four young people through
college and one through grad school, so you know, I
need a little supplement there once in a while, you know.
And but yeah, I've got no complaint. I mean, you know,
I I've had good advice my whole life. You know,
as I say, you know, I came from a so
called middle class family, so I had a kind of

(41:10):
a high bar to achieve to you know, try to
get to where my my family was and stuff like that.
And you know, I really have no complaints. I mean,
you make good decisions, you make bad decisions, you know.
I mean that to me was a tragic decision because
you know, it just just was a mistake. What about
record royalties? They were historically low when you started, Atlantic

(41:32):
was not famous for paying. What's your experience, Uh, well,
you know, we we really don't know. Uh you know
the answer to that, because we'll never know. You know,
in those days, they had a different way. They used
the vinyl you know, and basically they had this uh
sort of accounting mechanism where let's say, um, you print

(41:55):
up uh fifteen thousands promotion at copies. Well, you can't
get paid on those. Those are promotional, So that promotional
part of the equation. It's very interesting how that fluctuated.
You don't want to fluctuated that way. But yeah, we
sold to Oh no, no, no, but those were promotional.
Oh I see, Okay, I got you. We'll never know.

(42:17):
I mean, we're we're we're able to do audits every
five years, and you know, the tragedy of the situation,
they can't even agree on doing an audit. So it's
just bye bye, we'll see your money. Are they still
calculating your royalties at the low sixties rate? Pretty much? Sure.

(42:40):
We never really renegotiated. We should have. And so is
there any money there? Oh yeah, I mean there's something.
You know, obviously there's there's something there. It's it depends
on your lifestyle, of course, you know, but there's still
money there, you know. Fortunately, you know, we still have
audience out there, and and and and and you know,
there's so many variables to now. You know, when the

(43:00):
radio stations started to kind of de emphasize sixties and seventies,
and now you know, as as the demographic changes, you know,
they get up more towards you like they Well, okay,
now we don't have that that that advertisement, which is
really all the radio play is. It's an advertisement, you know. Uh, well,
I go on the road, you know, and uh you

(43:22):
know that's what to a degree is an advertisement. You
know what I'm saying. We do podcasts and you know,
things like this keep our music alive because if you
can't hear it, you know, a lot of a lot
of these people were not even born, you know. I
mean I I say that in my show when I
do my closing storm, which is good love, and I say, hey,
we'd like you to sing along. But here's the rules.
If you weren't born, you don't have to see it. Okay,

(43:53):
you're going out on the road with Nikki Dolan's how
did that come together? I think that came as more
of like an agency management managerial decision, you know, like, uh,
you look for pairings, you know, people that get along,
and I think our music's you know, kind of they
they invoked this kind of real happiness, you know what
I mean, because you know, there's not not a really

(44:14):
a lot of like, you know, bad stuff in those songs,
as far as like, you know, we've had enough of
COVID and we've had enough of of of of you know, heartbreak,
and we certainly lose losing and have lost a lot
of people. I think a happy tour, you know, uh,
much like you know my eternal friends do. It's not
a bad idea, and I think the music would go together.

(44:37):
He's a good guy. I've known him and the other
fellows for years, and uh it's heart keeping a straight
face around him because he's really funny. You know, I
only know him a little bit, but I just could
never get over the fact that he was in circus
board and then suddenly she would say, you know a monkey,
that same guy. But uh, let's go back to the beginning.

(44:58):
So you grew up in ALM, what was pelam like that. Oh,
it is a beautiful suburb. I used to say, look,
you know, I've got over here. I got mom very
I got near a show over there, young because I
can get beat up within five miles, but right here,
I'm safe. You know. It was a great town with
a great, great education system. My parents moved there although
they couldn't afford it, because they wanted us really to

(45:20):
have an excellent education and that that worked. And your
parents were they born in America, born in the Old Country,
You were born in that They was second second generations, yes, okay.
And your father was a dentist and your mother what
did she do? Pharmacists? Pharmacists, So they were both working
outside the home. Well, you know he was when she

(45:40):
started having us. You know, I think she stopped. But
I mean, my my mom's family, you know, very very
interesting family as far as like they're kind of uh,
you know, they were all doctors and you know, really
really kind of important people in the medical field. You know,
they were quite a family. And my dad's family me,
my dad came up uh from you know, uh family

(46:04):
that basically were His father was a barber. You know.
The good thing is that he was a Wall Street barber,
so when he got a tip was a real good one,
you know. So, you know, it was really interesting because
of the fact that, you know, there was a certain
intellect you know, around the house that I always appreciated,
you know, and uh uh when I went out into

(46:25):
the real world and I realized it's a little different
out here, you know. So I really had an excellent childhood. Okay,
so you said you have no brothers, sister, sisters. A sister, yeah, older, younger,
she's young as you can't sing. How did you end
up starting at the piano? Oh? My mom? Yeah, for

(46:46):
some reason, you know a lot of people give their
kids piano lessons, you know, and for some reason, she saw,
you know, a talent there, you know, and and so
she enrolled me in in this pretty serious school for
a five year old, you know, three lessons a week
for eight years, and I got an education. I got
a musical education. The the the you know, the principle

(47:09):
was to be a classical pianist, you know, And and
I did, I mean I tried. I went, you know,
I did what was told. I went to Carnegie, holding
my auditions and things like that, and it was just
it was such a different planet that was just so interesting,
you know. And and but I learned music. Okay, did
you like music? I loved it? Absolutely? And did you
want to practice? Because you moved back in those days

(47:31):
of piano lessons? Getting the kids to practice was the
hardest part. That's in the book. Also, my mom, she
used to you know, we had you know, in the
street and in the in the back where we used
to play ball, we had you know, home plate was
the sewer head, you know. You know, so she would
come park the car there time for class. Mom, you're
on the home plate, time for class. You know. That's

(47:53):
the thing. You know. We're very lenient with our kids,
you know. And that's a mistake because if she had
been lenient with me, I would never I would have
never learned. I wanted to go out and play Man.
You know, we didn't do video games. We went out
there and played man. And were you a popular kid?
Good student? What kind of kids were you? You know,
you're not popular until you start playing music, you know,
because I was real little. You know, my friends are

(48:14):
all these giants, you know, and like you know, they're
going out for the football team. And I couldn't make
the weight. You had to be hunting twenty five, you know,
So what can I do? Started playing music? Oh wow,
look at that a girl. It's different. It's really interesting.
And how did you end up learning to play the Oregon? Ah? Well,
a friend of mine said, there's a club up in

(48:35):
New Rochelle Black Club. There's a trio in there. You
want to go? So we got one problem. Man, We're
not sixteen. We're not even able to walk into freaking
Don't worry. I got that covered, you know, we got that.
And I went in and I saw this organ trio,
the Mighty Cravers, an Oregon playing bass, singing, playing leads,

(48:59):
a sacks, and a drum, and I said, oh my god,
what is that. That's a Hammond organ. Well that's when
the Magical Mystery Tour Number one started. I'm in organ.
How am I going to get a Let me check
this out. Well, I lived in Westchester, but you know

(49:20):
where they saw him, New York, Macy's. So I get
on a train and I go down there, and I'll
never forget it as long as I live. Mr Silverstein
is in charge of the music department at Macy's. He says, sure, son,
go right, in there. That's where the Hammonds are. I

(49:42):
have this in the book also, But it was like, Okay,
I opened the doors and here are these big machines.
You know, what do I do? You can't just sit
down and turn it on because it's not that easy.
There's a whole situation with a Hammond. There's two switches.
But he let me be in there, you know, and

(50:03):
I felt this thing and then I found out it's
three thousand dollars. I said, oh, Ben, I got a problem. Okay, well,
thank you sir. Onward, but that started it. So how
did you often we get it? Or well, I gotta
I got a smaller one when I went to college,
you know, when I when I went to college, I
I kind of you know, we would play pianos with

(50:24):
microphones sticking in the other side that they be amplified
and you can keep up with the guitars, you know.
But I I got a small album hamm and I
think it was called an L L something. Excuse my phone.
That's somebody that doesn't know I'm an important guy anyway. Okay,
But as someone who went to all the rock shows

(50:45):
in the sixties, we used to look at the Oregon
and say that's a heavy thing to slipt around. Chiropractice
loved me, that's for sure, you know. I you know
my patience, and I know I'm sorry about that. Yeah,
it was not made for the row, you know, which
is so interesting because you know, Hammond really uh, I
think the fellow was like a Thomas Edison type who

(51:08):
created that instrument. You know, he did a lot of
different inventions. This was one and I don't think he
really ever realized what he had created in terms of
musical virtuoso instrument. You know, I really don't think they knew,
you know. And uh, you know, there's a great stories there.
I don't know if anybody's interested, but you know that
there's a there's a marriage between the Hammond organ and

(51:30):
the Leslie speaker. You know the Leslie speakers, that box
that spins around, you know and distributes the sound of
the top and the bottom throughout the church or room
or wherever you happen to be. Well, Hammond didn't create
the speaker. This other company named Leslie did, and Hammond

(51:51):
Company did not want that Leslie speaker anywhere near their organ. However,
the speaker that they had was kind of like a
Fender guitar hump. It did not it wasn't it didn't.
It wasn't good. So it took them years to realize
we must coexist. You know, he had no idea they
had made this monstrosity of a phenomenal, you know, like instrument,

(52:17):
which it still is. Okay, how hard was it to learn?
You know, piano is pretty simple. It's got the keys
and it's got the strings. But there's so many things,
including bass, pedals, etcetera. On an Oregon. How long did
it take you to come up to speed? How long
did it take you to ride a bike? Same thing,
same thing, same thing? You know. I mean you gotta

(52:39):
do that. Oh okay, I go oh, I get it. Yeah.
I mean you know, when people want to do something,
you know, uh, they do it and and and and
I I heard you know this, Jimmy Smith's gentleman. Oh
my god, I said bad. Yeah. Most of the people
that come from you know, my years way back when
you know, like the Kinks and you know all these guys,

(53:01):
you know, the they love what they do, man, you know,
I mean, I I see Rod Argent, these guys many
they don't have to go on the road Ringo is
the best example. I mean, what he needs, he needs
to go, he needs to go work. They love it
and if you love it, it's easy. Don't stand that point.
You know, you were a king in an era with gods.
Did you know all those people? Sure we have business.

(53:23):
We had, you know, fifteen people in those days nowadays,
you know, yeah, it was a small business. You know.
First of all, look, there really wasn't a big paycheck
at the end of those years for most are artists,
you know, I mean they didn't make any money, you know,
until you know, like we started getting to beatle Land
and to Zeppe Land and to cream Land and they're

(53:46):
rolling stone Land. So you had to be a little
bit insane to do this, you know. And second of all, um,
you know, there wasn't that many people doing it, and
and those of us that we're doing it, you know
before right before our time, when Murray the k and
of course Alan Freed and and they used to have
these shows. They had like ten fifteen acts on the show,

(54:09):
you know, I mean we would Wick of Bo Diddley Man,
we would have Paddi LaBelle. I mean they would be
on the same stage. You can't like nowadays, because you're
two thousand dollars to go to that show. But it
was different, you know, and Chuck Berry would be there,
and you know, it was just a lot more about music,
and you know, they couldn't choge. It was like three

(54:29):
dollars went five dollars to get in. Yeah, let's let's
go back to that era. You're obviously a little older
than I am, but I certainly remember everybody had a
transistor radio by time I came along. Elvis was kind
of in the rear view mirror in the army. But
we had the Beach Boys, we had Frankie Valley, and
we had a lot of people who were derided, like
Fabian and Bobby right absolutely. Then all of a sudden,

(54:52):
the Beatles come and the whole thing blows up. But
what I find interesting is the people who followed in
their wake, certainly a media. They've been in the business,
they've been playing music before. So my question to you
is what inspired you, what turned you on? What was
it like before the Beatles? Well, Elvis of course was there.

(55:12):
You know, Elvis was there again. You know this is
all in that book, you know, But I was in school,
you know, I was a Junior H what he called
Junior High. And this you know the alphabet ties you
see A V C A L C A L was
right in front of me. John become one of my

(55:32):
dear friends. We we just were joining up because you know,
basically we were all different elementary schools that that had
come to Junior High. Sis, Hey, you like rock and roll.
I had no idea what he was talking about. I
I had never heard the word. We were classically kind
of like you know, a religion. You know, I don't

(55:54):
want you to go into those other denominations. You stay
right here now. I couldn't listen, but I said yes
because I didn't want to be like, know where this
guy come from. But I went home, turn on this
little green box web Corp. Whatever it was, and I
heard this guy Alan Freed, and I heard this guy
Ray Charles and Jerry Lee Lewis, and I said, oh

(56:17):
my god, this facts don't want He's playing the piano.
That's what I play. Oh wow. And it just starts
you off and you say, like, you know, I think
I think I could do this, you know, let me
try it. You know, Well, this whole world opened up,
you know, to all of us not just I mean,
you know, beatles have the same story coming from the

(56:37):
English point of view, from the radio, from pirate radio
and all that kind of stuff. It just it just
it's just like, well, that's what I do. I play
that instrument, but I don't play it like that. Let
me see if I can do it. That's how it starts.
At what point did the dream of making this a
career come to you? Well, you know, it really never

(56:58):
came to me. And you know, basically, I I you know,
I get a chance to speak at a lot of
you know, I used to speak at Berkeley College of
Music when I lived on the East Coast, and you know,
I tell the young people, I said, look, you know,
you have no idea what's going to happen? You really don't,
you know, And and and you know, I tell my story,
which is what we're talking about here. I was supposed

(57:19):
to be pre I was pre med. I mean, I
was going you know, the way of my my my family,
you know. But I had a band up there, you know,
I had a group called the Escorts and lou Reed
went to the school at the same time. You know,
in Syracuse is a very very I mean it was
so much fun. I mean, I'm I'm I mean I
used to play for all the athletes. I used to

(57:39):
play for the you know, the homecoming. We had a
good team and those days it was more of a
football school. But I played for all the parties. I said,
you know what, this is really fun. And then another guy,
another gentleman from our band we had, you know, fraternities,
we had to zbt you know, and his father, uh
had big connections up in the Catsco Mountains. Usaid, want

(58:00):
to want to go to the Castle Mountains first summer? Yeah?
When on? I never went back. I had so much
I mean, I was just I loved it, you know,
and here I am, and you know, it's all in
the in the book, so to speak. But I had
no idea that I was going to be a musician.
I had absolutely no idea until you know it. Just

(58:21):
to tell us some I hooked it up with Joey
D and the Starlighters. Yeah, well again, you know, like
what happened is every every weekend when a headliner would
come in, you know, and um that headliner in this
case was Joey D and the star Lighters. And that's
when my life really really changed because up until then
I had not that much contact with New Jersey. Itights,

(58:43):
you know, and when I met the New Jersey it's,
oh my god, oh my god. I I was introduced
to another planet, you know, and it's it's something that
you know, like I'll never forget, you know that. The
first thing that I remember is this gentleman by the
name of David Brigatti who was remember coming into the
dressing room and looking at my nose and he says,

(59:05):
are you Jewish? I said what he said? When I
saw that, I didn't know, you know, I said, Okay,
this is going to be something they saw me I
was doing. Uh. I had to play for the lounges,
and I had to play for the you know. I
played for the for the for the for the hotel
was the Rollie up there, and uh. They went to

(59:25):
Europe right after that, and their organist had just recently
gotten married and didn't want to stay. He wanted to
go home. So they called me and they said, would
you like to join us in Germany? And uh, I
know how to tell My father said, Dad, I got this.

(59:45):
You know, maybe I shouldn't go back to the university.
What do you think so and I went and I
went over there, and you know, I went into this
club that they were and there was this group opening
up for for Joey and everybody screaming and hollering and yelling.

(01:00:09):
And I said, the Beatles. The what yeah, Wow, what's
going on here? Wow? Man, Beetles are huge over here.
This is before they came to the United States, So
what is this? And you know, long hair kids were going.
I mean, they were just hysterical. I mean, this was
for real. This was not you know, stage don't I

(01:00:31):
do it at the Super Bowl? And they put the
fans up near the stage so they looked like they're
having fun. But these these people were gone. And then
I started listening to the music, you know, and I said, phoo,
what I could hear? They're a singing group. You know,
they're really not musicians. You know, you couldn't tell the
geniuses that were on that stage quite yet. You couldn't

(01:00:53):
even hear them. And and and and and and I
listened to the music and I remember vividly the m
when they did American music. They are right, you know,
they have a very different way of syncopation, their rhythm structure,
their rhythm is more. It's it's not as syncopated. It
doesn't have like the ends and the sixteenth notes and stuff.

(01:01:16):
But when they did their music, when they did I
want to hold your hand, loved me do it's just
how do your ears just went? What is that? Wow? Man,
that's pretty dawned cool. You know, little did we know?
Little did I know that I was going to do this.
Little did I know that the rest of the world
was going to find out what I had just heard

(01:01:37):
not too long after that, and in America with its
solid So that's when I kind of made this decision.
I said, you know what, I could do this. There's
nothing that these guys are doing. Little did I know
they were total composition geniuses. You know, we didn't know
that I could do this. Let's go youth man, there's

(01:01:57):
nothing like it. How long did you with Joey? What
was the inspiration for leaving? And then what you do? Well?
You know I came back with joe and you know
that was quite an organization. Man. Let me tell you,
almost work back to school, you know, because it was
so you know, it wasn't like you know, you you
look and there weren't a very sophisticated type of organization.

(01:02:19):
So I met Frankie Valley. You know, frank Frankie Valley
was the first kind of person that I met that
really had his act together in those days, you know
what I mean. He wasn't just out there to party
and to have fun, and you know, he he was
out there to succeed. And I saw that. Oh wow, yeah,
m hm, with all due respect, yeah, they had some
smart people out here. I get it, you know, because

(01:02:42):
Frankie was there before Joey, you know. And and and
frank has always been like a you know, an older brother.
You know. He always tells me to cut your hair,
and you know, we're a tie, and you know, that's
that's that's that's that's the way he treats me as
as a you know, as as a nephew or something,
you know. So, you know, I just stay with Joey
for a while, and then I took another job, which

(01:03:02):
was out in Las Vegas, and then I got drafted.
And you know that that's the real difference between then
and now, you know, did you have to remember those days?
I mean, I don't believe you can never forget him.
You can never forget him. That's also in the book.
And I tried to be as nice as I could
about it because but until until I was you know,
relieved of my duty, you know, as a mercenary. You know,

(01:03:28):
I that was the point of starting a group when
when I left school, uh, you know, basically I went
on into the real world. Um uh, you know, reality
sits in. I mean, you know, like, wow, it's nice
you have a hotel job, you get paid to eat
and sleep, you know, but when you go out into
the world and you're trying to make a living as
a musician, it's a whole different thing. Why start a
band until why why do anything until I get this

(01:03:49):
draft out of the way, you know what, all due respect,
in the early days, they were very very very uh
you know they were They was a little bit more
careful who they brought in. You know, they didn't want me.
They said, hey, if there's a nuke war, we'll call you.
Other than that, you know, you can go okay, So
you're free of that obligation. Is it then that you
start to put together the Rascals? Absolutely? Absolutely? How did

(01:04:11):
you do that? Well? Basically, you know, I mean, you know,
God works as strange ways. You know, it puts people
in your life, you know basically that you know, like
belong there, you know what I mean. There's like this well,
I was working in the Joey's Club because I went
back there after, you know, after a while, because I,
you know, needed to make a living at the time.
And they had a drummer that they had a band

(01:04:31):
there that it's called the Starlighters. And this time was Eddie,
not his brother Eddie. And and this guy, just this
young man from Rochester, New York, Gene Cornish, came in
from Rochester, New York. You know, he would try to
make it in the in the business. He had a
group up in Rochester called the Unbeatables. Interesting, you know,
and and then he came to New York and he
and he hit the wall, you know, the wall of

(01:04:54):
what are you kidding? This is this is a whole
different world. Man from Rochester, New York. He started on
this stall Adder band, uh, the the the uh myself
Eddie Geen. We had an interesting drummer. We had a
young young drummer from Brooklyn at the time. And then
and as I say, you know, when I when I
kind of kind of start putting my plans together, I

(01:05:16):
asked him. I said, look, why don't we do our
own thing? What do you mean, why don't we try
and make it in the music business. Interestingly enough that
the the the drummer didn't want to go. He got
another offer from a group that was kind of like
steady work, which I understand. You know, you got you

(01:05:37):
gotta work. You know, this is all speculative, still is
always will be. And h then again, you know, the
hand of faith. I had this woman that said to me, well,
I know a better drummer, and I and and and
I say, you know you're a banker. You know what,
what do you know? You know? She took me to

(01:05:58):
see this, this this gentleman by the name of Dino Dannelly.
I saw him through a window at the Metropole. I
saw him do two songs and I said, oh my god,
do you know a guitar player? No, I didn't mean
so anyway, I just I couldn't believe this guy. You know,
he was like, you know, he was not only playing

(01:06:19):
the drums, well, he was doing a show because his
life was part of like the Louie Bellson Uh, you know,
Buddy Rich Uh, you know people who were Lionel Hampton.
These were people. Basically, they were the leaders of their band.
In the back of the band as as a drummer,
they put on a show besides being in perfect time

(01:06:41):
and doing I couldn't believe it. So I know I
had the ingredients. Let's go try it. Okay, what were
the next steps? How do you get from there to
the Hampton's Well, basically, uh, you know, we we we
rehearsed at my my father's home. We went down in
the basement area we had, and we went out to
the to the world to get jobs. And we got

(01:07:03):
a few jobs. A matter of fact, I just did
a show down in Florida with one of the uh uh,
the sons of the first place that we worked. The
first place we worked was in Garfield, New Jersey, at
the Churchoo Club. And this gentleman came to see me.
He's like eighty three now, you know, and and uh
he hired us. He hired me at that time, and uh,

(01:07:25):
all of a sudden, one day, this gentleman comes in
from this uh famous club in New York City called
on Dean's. Now it wasn't I'm not sure if it
was on Dean's. I think it was better been on
Dean's and his name was Romi Aguieri and he said,
I've got an idea. Can I speak to you? And
you know, I said, yeah, can you sat down? He said,

(01:07:48):
I want to open a club in the Hampton's for
the summer. We'd like you to be the band. Now.
I grew up not too far from the Hamptons, and
I realized what was going on going on over that
part of Long Island. That's where everybody who has anything
I would like to be this summer. We're gonna be fine.

(01:08:10):
Let's take it. Just to be clear, how long after
you formed the band? Does this happen? Six months or
not even six month? We had a deal in six months,
just like two months. We were good, man, We had
a good band. I mean these guys, you know, See
the thing is like most bands have one guy, you know,
and that guy is like, you know, he's the head
Headhunt show. You know. I have four guys that either

(01:08:33):
we're leaders or their own band. Let't me tell you. Wait,
where do you want to look? These guys were good, man,
you know, they were really good, you know. And and
and so when you looked on the stage, you know,
like you said, wow, chick. I mean Johnston Basch justs
got the best story about that. You have to ask
him about that. He I think he he says it
all the time. When when the Love is poom Full
first came to see the Rascals, they said, boy, we

(01:08:55):
better get to work man, these guys. He did, man,
you know, because we were kind of like rivals in
those days. He was the downtown and we were the uptown.
You know, and I love him. He's one of the
nicest human beings I've ever met. But you know, yeah,
it didn't take long because we were good. You know,
we were good, and we attracted you know, crowds. We
had a lot of help. The The interesting thing about

(01:09:17):
us is that our hometowns, you know, in my case
Pelham and in Eddie's case, Garfield, they supported us. You know,
these people would come out to the shows and say, hey, man,
you know, I got I got a great idea. How
about if I do this? You know, we had just
one one guy, one kid whose father you know, when
we would work in the early clubs, you know those

(01:09:38):
big floodlights they put up when you have the you know,
the bazaars and league lights. He put them on in
front of the place. And when day I asked him,
I said, Billy, who's it was? Paying stuff? He put
on his father's credit card. You know. But we had
people like really supporting the troop. They really wanted to. Yeah,

(01:10:00):
when I got an idea, let's let's let's let's put
posters up on all the stops signs, oh yeah, that
the cops are gonna love that. You know, there was
a there was a this is gonna happen, you know,
which is why, you know, I get so sad when
I when I talk about and speak about the you know,
so called present tense of of the fact that nobody
we had a phenomenal base, our team. But then we

(01:10:24):
just were just great people, you know what I mean.
There were people, the families, and you know, it was
it was kind of like, you know, a collaboration of
of of a few towns in America. You know, let's
let's make this happen, you know, and and so uh,
you know, it wasn't long at all. Was the dream

(01:10:50):
to make a living playing live? Or was the dream
to get a record deal? Who knows? I mean, seriously,
I mean, as I say, you know, there's this Jean
d viv or whatever you wanna all about playing music
that you know, like, you know, a lot of us have.
You know, some people are able to do it. Some
people have to do it after they've you know, completed
their their their their retire retire re fund. But I

(01:11:13):
was able to do it, So I never really had
I can never really say I had any kind of
you know, I just knew I had to do this
music after a while, you know, I could feel it
coming through me. I gotta do this, It has to
be done, has to be and let me, let me,
let me get the Catharsis of this. Let me do this.
I love. So how did you you're playing in the Hamptons,
how did you end up getting a record deal? Well? Here,

(01:11:34):
here's here's where. You know, we got Betty Davis coming,
we got all these big you know, record record people
coming in and you know, Phil Specter's coming, and well
what happened basically is is a gentleman by the name
of Walter Hyman, who was a textile uh, very very
very wealthy man sauce and he said called up his buddy,

(01:11:57):
said Bernstein, who was in the business. Sid came up
and they decided to form a management company and manage us. Well.
From that point, now we entered into the real world
of like you know, marketing and so called you know,
put the name in the in the New York Post
and all those magazines and newspapers. Rather and uh, the

(01:12:19):
record company started to come out. So when when when
Sid and Walter came on. First of all, they doubled
our salary. We're getting peanuts, you know. And he said,
you know, I guess what's bringing these people. And it's
not the ship, it's these guys. And so you know,
everything changed. I was running the band at that time
out of a book, you know, This Business of Music,
which is a classic for anybody who wants anything to

(01:12:40):
do with contracts or and and I don't know what
to do, you know, basically, but when he came in,
when Sid and Walter came in, that, uh, the owners
now became okay, let's get him a record deal. You
talk about it being a different era in the floors
of Sid relative to other people. What was good about
Sid and what did Walter rad other than the connection. Well,

(01:13:03):
at that time, Walter was the business uh man, you know, Sid,
Sid and Bernstein, you know who also has a book
that's uh. He was like the last of the kind
of Mike Todd type of individuals, you know. He he
he had a vision of what could be. You know,
like for example, when Bobby Fisher was in the Chess

(01:13:25):
World with Boris Spassky, I think people would like to
see this, So he brought it to the United States.
So the Beatles brought it to the United States. You know,
he saw actually karate and taekwondo brought it to Madisons
Gregg Garden. He was a visionary in that capacity and
that he could see this is happening, This is happening,

(01:13:46):
this is happening. He still got to pay the bills.
He's still got you still got to feed the dog,
you know what I'm saying. That's where he wasn't see
he was. He was a visionary. You know, you take
a risk. You know. One of the Sid Bernstein story,
he's remember the Newport Jazz Festival and then they had
those riots. You know, I guess I could tell the

(01:14:07):
story when when they had the riots, the next year
was canceled. So Sid says, no, no, we got to
resurrect this. He went out and borrowed money to make
that thing happen the next year, knowing he should have
full well he was going to lose a lot of money.

(01:14:27):
But that was sid He was that kind of man.
He had. He had a different kind of outlook on
on on the world that was from a very very
sincere Uh probably wanted to please, you know, he wanted
to entertain, you know, and and and and that was
just said eight kids later. I have to ask, because
of the legendary stories of Colonel Tom Parker, do you

(01:14:49):
remember what their percentage was? Uh? Well, it changed because
of the fact that he was he was a company.
Prior to that, I don't remember, but it wasn't It
wasn't obscene at at all. Though we were fairly treated.
I always felt we were okay. So how do you
end up in Atlantic Records? Certain people came through the door.
I wanted to sign us up. For example, Mr Spector
came in and uh, you know, I had to really

(01:15:14):
I loved his music. I mean, you know what he did,
you know, just you know, we just lost our dear
friend ire Ronnie. You know. But I had to say,
I say, look, guys, I don't want to go with
Phil Specter. I don't want to be phil specter ized,
what do you mean, man? I said, no, no, no, no,
I want to produce ourselves. Don't you understand they like

(01:15:35):
what they hear these people. Let's do it ourselves. I
know I can do this. You know when I when
I was growing up, I heard this record called Money
by Barrett Strong. I think it was produced by Barry Gordy.
What does that mean produced? Oh you mean you put
it together. I could do that. I could do anything.

(01:15:56):
So I wanted to be a producer. I I just
didn't want to go in there and have somebody tell me,
you know what you should sound like. There's no no, no, no, no.
This is what I want to sound like. You like it,
don't you? It's good in it. I'll tell you what, man,
Let me do it. Atlantic was the only company that
would allow us to do it. However, in the book,
you testify ad infinite him about the greatness and power

(01:16:17):
of the reef Martin. Well he asked the Beatles about
George Martin. You know again, you know there's a definite
divine nature to our world, whether we like it or not.
You know, and when things fall into your place and
you go like, okay, this guy is really good. I

(01:16:40):
mean when when when I knew who Tom Doubt was
when he was in the Rule with us, because you know,
I saw his name on all the albums and all
the singles that I bought my whole life. You know,
the Drifters, the Coasters, you know, the Ravens, the you know,
Clim mcpe town down town, down town down I knew him,
but our reef Martin I didn't know. But it's kind
of like, you know, when you have when you have like,

(01:17:00):
for example, say animals, you know, like say, for example, horses,
you know, and they put them all together and then
all of a sudden, this one dude gets this horse
gets up over Then you go like, oh my god,
that's a hell of a horse over there. Bro. This
guy was just I'm sorry. You know, I cried like
a baby when he passed. He was something. And you're

(01:17:21):
working with him, you know, so what can you say?
You know, I got an idea, Oh how about this?
Oh I gotta what do you think about this? So
I'm saying, did I die and did I die and
go to heaven? I don't know? This is this is
phenomenal working with this guy, just phenomenal you're saying, although
with the reef giving you insight that you actually produced
all these rascals. Oh we did, Oh absolutely. I mean

(01:17:43):
I I don't want to take credit all by myself,
but you know, I didn't go home until two or
three in the morning, you know, while these guys were out,
you know, no, no, I was there. I could tell
you every dial, everything that they touched. Oh, you know,
it's too much. I don't want that many highs on it. Yeah,
I was there. I was interested for the first day.
So we produced our own stuff. I mean I say

(01:18:04):
we because that's what the contracts said, but I mean
I was there every step of the way, enjoyed every
moment of it. You know, in those days, we had
the unfortunate transition between mono and stereo. You know, so
if anybody knows what it takes to mix a record,
you know, in those days we only had eight tracks,
but still it's it's it's always tedious. We had to

(01:18:26):
do it twice for each song. We had to do
a mono and a stereo version. So yeah, I was
there the whole time, and and and and you know,
I don't think there's a seriously a note that went
on any of our records that I wasn't totally aware of.
So the first album doesn't have any originals at the time,
did you have any originals? How do you decide on

(01:18:47):
the songs that were included in the first round? Well,
that was pretty much our set because in those days,
the club clubs demanded covers. They didn't want to hear
any of your you know, your your personal fieldings or thoughts.
You know. They wanted you know, these people are coming
in here. I want them to dance. I want them

(01:19:07):
to drink. They're not gonna do that if they're listening
to your music. I want them to rock and roll.
You know, they the aesthetic. That's not what we're hiring,
you know what I mean. So, uh, they demanded covers.
So what I had to do basically is is we
had a record store up in Nurshelle, New York. And

(01:19:27):
you know, in those days, you could go in, put
on a set of headphones, put the needle down on
the turntable, and stay as long as you wanted, you know.
And I heard these songs, and then there was a
couple of radio stations in Euyork w w l R,
and you know, uh, Jocko was on and you know
R and B stations, and they play this songs. You know,

(01:19:48):
they played this song, they played this song Mustang Sally,
they played this song Temptations about to Get Me. Nobody
ever heard those songs. They played this song good Loving
unless you were in that neighborhood. Are we go to
the record store, buy it and tell the proprietor this
is a cover man. And I mean, I didn't make

(01:20:08):
this up. See, that became our set. That's how we
did our set. And and and it's interesting because the
the accent that I bring to the table when we
speak to the microphone, nobody thinks that come from Nashville, Tennessee.
They know I'm not from here. You know why, Well,
because whatever I do covered it that way. Well, when

(01:20:31):
we did songs that we thought we were doing the
English version, it was not. It was the sole version,
you know, It's just the way it came out. You know.
It just was very interesting. How you know, we we
we we we made on music. And how did you
find they ain't can eat it out my heart anymore?
Well that was a different story now Atlantic. You know,
I knew we didn't really we hadn't really shown them

(01:20:51):
any songs that were written, because they signed us based
on the nightclub back. They liked what they heard, and
uh so when we were to the label, they they
they went the normal route, which as you know from
those days, was to go to publishers and uh you
know they they Beatles at Dylan and you know, Spoonful
Birds and those people, even Birds, they went, they went

(01:21:13):
got songs from other people that hadn't really evolved yet
where you were, you know, like on your own writing.
You know, that's one of the many, many, many gifts
that the Beatles and people like Dylan gave us that
you know, like now now you could you know, express yourselves.
Prior to that, they not too many people were interested
in what you had to write at all, so there
was really no reason to do it except for your

(01:21:35):
creative you know kind of juices. So yeah, with those
songs are part of our set. Did you cut Good
Loving and say this is a hit or were you
surprised when all of a sudden became a monster. While
we were surprised when we came a monster, but we
weren't surprised when it came a hit. You know. The difference,
Uh a lot of times between then and now. Is that? Uh,

(01:21:56):
you have an audience like in other words, if I
play a song and I've got a hundred people, a
hundred and fifty people, it's a record this session here, like,
what do you think? Well, if they go you know,
from the first time we played that song, people got
up and danced, people got up and drank, people got happy,
and you know to this day, so you know, this

(01:22:18):
has got legs. This this could happen, you know, because
you see what you know, You've got that instant reaction.
It's like a comedian when he tells a joke. Don't
use this in the show. You know. Okay, the record
is a monster. You're all over the media. You have
to make a second record. The second record is different
because their originals, and the originals are better than the

(01:22:41):
covers and there they How do you end up writing
songs all of a sudden? Well, you know, and it's
not all of a sudden. It's just that you know
somebody up there likes me, you understand, so you know
basically you know it when you when you when you
open a door, you know, a smart thing to do
is to go in and realize what where came from
you know, so when that door opened up, you know,

(01:23:03):
and we're a bunch of young, young, young guys. You
know that I just had a multimillion whatever you want
to call itself. He said, you know what, we're going
to kind of tell you what we want to do now.
This is what we want to do, big shots. Okay,
let's be specific. I've been lonely too. Low is a
monster that I've gotten into more in the twenty one

(01:23:24):
century than the twentieth century. There's a lot of stuff
from that era that's dated. Of course, this is not dated.
How did you write such a good song so early
in your writing career? Well, you know, uh, I mean
there's reasons, you know behind the songs. You know, there's
there's always reasons which I find, like, you know, the
the audience is out there really like to hear. But
you know, we we have in that case, amuse. You know,

(01:23:48):
there was this young lady came into my life and uh,
you know, uh, I wrote all those songs about that
relationship until we got to how can I be sure
where I wasn't sure that I in the right move. Uh.
You're inspired by by people, by events, you know, and
and and so you know how you know, you know,

(01:24:11):
I don't even know what to say except for you know,
thank you. Okay, let's even go to the next record
where you really, you know, become a monster. So are
you saying that all these songs like a girl like you?
And how can I be sure? And you Better Run
and Grooving are all about this woman? No, your Better

(01:24:32):
Run was about a different woman who drove me crazy.
This was all yes, yes, yes, yes, positive, but you
know what I say on my show, but sometimes things
are not so beautiful, and that's your Better Run. And
Pat Benattar of course, had the same same same. How
did you become aware of that Pat Bennettar version when

(01:24:53):
you first heard it? Or did they reach out before?
I think they reach out before, because you know there
there is a publishing license and all that and stuff
that they have to do is so they content. I
contacted our attorneys and people said and I said, yeah, man,
oh wow, she's good. Let's let's do it. She is
really good. She's very good, and she did a great
job of her husband. They really did a good job. Absolutely.

(01:25:13):
It was actually bigger than your version terms of succe. Well,
what else is new? What else is new tell us
more about grooving well grooving, you know, I mean, you
know this is this is this is a thing of
perfect example of what I was alluding to in the
beginning about the different answers. You know, over the years,
you you you kind of create your story because you know, uh,

(01:25:36):
I mean, Johnson Bash has got some great stories. You know,
I I can I divest for one one one minute
with John. John goes on stage and says, when I
was a boy, you know, my parents used to send
me to camp and uh I got involved with these
twins and he picks up his gutarigos, did you ever

(01:25:57):
have to make up your mind? You know? Now did
that really happen? I guess? So? New York is a
bastion of Latin music, you know, Uh, Latin music was
present when I was at the Royally Hotel that they
used to come up and apply a sextet, all these

(01:26:18):
Latin bands and that's kind of I heard it, man.
And and not only that, but they were good bands,
you know, I mean we we would go to a show,
you know, basically after that and they would be a
trio there or quartet. When you go to a Latin show,
it's a freaking orchestra, man, and these guys are popping. Well.
I had a lot of Latin friends in the community

(01:26:40):
and and and you know, I just said, wow, you know,
let's how about we try something like this, you know,
how about we try something like this? And then there's
a story as far as the lyric and that content,
which you know, this is evolved over the years. I
don't know that this is what actually happened, but I
was working on Friday and Saturday nights. The only time
I could be with my loved one was Sunday afternoon,

(01:27:03):
you know, I mean, there was no Friday and Saturday.
And I've turned that into a whole stick on stage.
You know, I say, you know how many women like that?
And none, you know, blah blah blah blah. But anyway,
it was an inspiration basically because that's the only time
we had off, so to speak, was Sunday afternoon. You know,
people go to the park and bring the conga's out
and all that, you know, and that's grooving. Okay. I

(01:27:24):
gotta ask, how did it end with that girl and
where is she today? Well, unfortunately, you know, the the
end of the story is never as good as the
beginning in the middle right now, she married a friend
of mine, and and that we did. We didn't marry,
as I say, I thought I thought I had a
I thought I was just enamored, you know. And and
and that's that's why she was there, you know. And

(01:27:46):
I really believe that there's a you know, uh, a
famous musical erato that you know, I learned the word
from my crossword puzzle days and adam use simple as that.
This this was an inspiration, you know. And and Eddie,
you know, and he was there. I mean Eddie, you know,
he knew what I was talking about, and you know
what we were talking about, and he did a great
job of you know, putting that story together. You know,

(01:28:10):
it was better that he, you know, wrote those things
with me, because you know, I get a little bit
too serious sometimes, you know what I'm saying. And he
was kind of like a flowery you know, you know,
paint this lovely picture on here. Well, would you sit
down like they do in Nashville and say, we're making
an album, we need songs. How did you actually write
the song? No, that didn't happen, you know, that didn't happen.

(01:28:30):
You know, as I say, you know, I I really
my my work ethic was a lot different from Eddie's.
So I would bring the song, you know, bring the
songbury the title, and bring the you know, the music,
the melody. You know. Basically, this is what this story
is about. Can can can you help me out? Can
you right over here? You know? And right and then
you know, literally uh uh we get it together, you know,

(01:28:53):
but we never we never really wrote together like that,
you know, like the togetherness thing in the beginning when
we were in the studio. Uh and and it was
kind of like a new world, you know. We we
we tried to basically collaborate and to you know, have
everybody's input put in, you know, but it didn't work
like that because you know, that's one of the difficult
things about production inside of a group. You know, somebody

(01:29:15):
has to make a decision to say the word no,
you know, and and and and and that's tough when
it's a so called equal member of the royalty situation,
because no, I don't want to use that song. No,
I don't think you should play it like that. Someone
has to be that that that director, you know, and basically,
you know, a reef personality was not like you know,

(01:29:39):
he was a gentle guy, gentleman, you know, so you
know it would come to me and some cases me
and him, but I'd always blame it on him. I
can't use that. I can't do that. But that's that's
how it was. I mean, I would bring the seed
in and you know, uh, he unfortunately did did his work.
Ethic was was not the same. You know, he didn't

(01:30:00):
he didn't really feel like you know, we had an
instance one time where prior to Jesus Christ Superstar, uh,
a fellow from the from the Broadway world said, you
know what, we need a rock musical. Would you guys
be interested in writing a rock musical? And I said,
oh my god, are you kidding me? We'll be the first,
whether we flop or not, the first, the first, you

(01:30:23):
always remember the first. And you know, again I would
get myself in trouble. Edie said, why we don't work
hard enough? You're gonna you want to work harder. I said, don't, don't, don't, don't.
Don't you understand you know the encyclopedias, they're gonna the first.
It doesn't matter. See, so it was a different thing.

(01:30:49):
Now in the book you say that after that album,
rove an album, you end up in California. You go
to Mexico, they start making a record without you. They
put out the Greed Sid's album time Piece. Tell me
what was really happening there? Yeah, what was really happening? Well,
we were in San Diego and I had a fever.

(01:31:10):
I wasn't feeling well. I had something going on in
my body that shouldn't happened. And so um, my road
manager and myself we decided, come on, let's take some
time off. You know, I don't feel good, you know.
And then right around that same period of time, I realized,
You realize that I'm supporting a war effort here with
my taxes. The hell with this, Let's get out of here. Yeah.

(01:31:35):
I went to Mexico. We went to Acapulco. In those days,
it was safe to go to Acapulco. You know, you
could go in and go out and see what tonejo
And uh, really, what happened up north? In the in
the in the in the is that Sid? He made
a mistake? You know. Sid goes, oh my god, what
are we gonna do without Felix? So the other guy

(01:31:58):
said her, up, what do you think we are chopped liver.
I mean, what do you think, you know? And they revolted, see,
and they called up a ref. Atlantic said, we're going
in without him. So anyway, unfortunately, nothing happened in the student.
So Atlantic says, how about we doing greatest hits? Sounds

(01:32:22):
like a good idea. I was coming back, I was
doing right, you know. I was just you know, you know,
just kind of like feeling my oats a little bit,
that's all. How long were you in Mexico? I don't
even know, three, not that long, you know, a couple
of months probably, you know, we just you know, we
just did we just kind of, you know, I remember

(01:32:43):
it vividly. I mean, I had so much fun, you know,
because we were trying to attempting Spanish. You know. So
so I was little, I was not that healthy. It
was a little well, and we go to the beach
and I'd say to my road guy Andy, I said,
so what happened down He says, well, I don't know.
I think I think I got a connection, but I'm
not sure whether we're buying it from them or they're
buying there from us. Okay, you mentioned earlier and also

(01:33:04):
in the book there's a lot about the Swami. Yeah,
expian upon that because most people don't know that well,
you know, Uh, the the interesting thing in those days
again we go back to the fact that the Beatles
were this light that kept turning people onto different things.
One of the things that we're turning us onto was
was the yoga was the spiritual world. You know, I

(01:33:26):
really didn't need to be turned onto the spiritual world
because I came from a very spiritual family. I mean,
my mom, you know, the rest our soul was was
very very religious human being, and so it was always
around us. Someone gave me a book, Uh, it was
called Autobiography of a Yoga Yogi by this Paramahansa Yoganda

(01:33:47):
and and and and when I read the book. When
I started reading the book, it's the same thing as
when I heard Alan Freed, It's the same things when
I heard the organ player. I just got immersed in
this world that in in those days and and this
is not that long ago. I mean in terms, it
was in the in the twentieth century, in in in

(01:34:07):
India that a monk would go through in their lives.
Their lives are totally different from ours. I mean, you know,
they have this thing called sanyas, which is a you know,
you decide or you're decided by your cast or I
don't know. In some cases, I'm sure it's not just
cast that you should be a monkey, should be a priest.
So what they do is they they give up everything.

(01:34:29):
They give up their names, they give up their wealth,
they give up anything that they may have. They're even
not supposed to have a wife or anything like that.
In the beginning, they're supposed to put out a yellow
or orange robe and go out into the you know
world with a bowl. And in those days, the the

(01:34:49):
you know, the the people would see them, you know,
person in a robe. They divide him in the house
and they give him food, they give them rest, they
give him and what what they would ask in return.
It's called SATs on readings. At the end of the meal,
I want to hear your wisdom. So you know, when
somebody was you know, chibe, because I had nothing to say.

(01:35:10):
But if somebody was real, you know, you're very fortunate
because you brought a holy man into your house, and
you know there's a blessing that goes with that, and
there's certainly a lot of wisdom that goes, So I'm
reading about this well and I I said, wow, look whoa hello,
you know. And at the end of the book there's
a sentence that says, if you want a teacher Guru,

(01:35:32):
ask and you shall receive. And this is where the
story gets really interested in again. This is in the book.
This gentleman by the name is Steve Paul had this
place in New York called the Scene. And the Scene
was a place where um a lot of people when
Jimmie Hendrix went there, and Tiny Tim was a major

(01:35:52):
staple there, and jose Feliciano was. It was a really
cool place, but it was small, and every once in
a while Steve would, you know, run into some financial difficulties.
He ended up managing the Winter's brothers, John and Edgar,
you know, and uh he would call us up and say,
come on, you guys, come down and do a free
bon me man I need to you know. And of course,

(01:36:13):
you know, Velvet Underground used to play there, you know. Uh,
so he's doing this television show, you know, uh, pilot
for w N E W. And he said, would you
guys come down and you know, be part of the show.
He called up, said, you know and of course, why not.
I walk in the door, you know, and I got

(01:36:34):
my entourage with me, big stars, whatever, and I see
a guru sitting on the floor with a circle around him.
I said, okay, sure that started it. I just said
to my roadmance and said hold this, I will be
right back. And I got online to meet him, and

(01:36:56):
I met him, you know, and and it was a major, major,
major experience, you know. And I have this again in
the book because this is this is what I wanted
to write about instead of the litigation and all that stuff.
You know. So how extensive did you get into it
and what did you ultimately learn from the Guru? Well,
you know, I don't get in too many things. Like
when I see a pool, I don't I don't just
put my foot in it. I'm one of these guys.

(01:37:17):
I dive right in, you know what I mean. I'm there.
I got very involved. I spent a good amount of
my life. You know. The the interesting part is why
you go there in the beginning, you know, UM. I
had a number of reasons that UM brought me to him,
you know. Uh be first of all, you know, I
lost my mom, you know, when when I was thirteen

(01:37:40):
I couldn't really figure that out, you know. And and
you know, you go to the rabbi, go to the priest,
you know something. Can anybody help me out of here? Man?
You know, I need a little help. I needed somebody
to how come this happened to a very spiritual lady.
And I say as a joke, but my dad he

(01:38:00):
went to church when it was reigning because it was
what was dry inside, you know. So but I couldn't
compute that, you know that. So I needed I needed
some spiritual guidance, you know, some Can you tell me
what this is all about? Man? Because I'm I'm you know,
and and then you know you you you also you've
got to be careful, you know, with with with with

(01:38:22):
the drugs that are out there. You know, you could
you could really lose your your brain, you know, and
and and and all this is all around us of course,
because I remember one time we went to California, we
met the Smothers brothers. You know, we almost didn't return alive.
You know, I mean these guys out in California that
that's a whole different world of you know, funning games,

(01:38:46):
you know, going out there, you know, and and and
average white band. The drummer didn't even get back he
did the first trip out there. He overdoes so I
need I I said, no, I I wasn't brought up
by this, you know what I mean? And then there's
a third thing, you know, basically, which is you know
again from my family. You know families, you know, they
used to really influence their kids. You know what I mean.
They used to. Well they still do, but I mean

(01:39:07):
in a positive way. My dad said, just I'll tell
you why you want to be a musician. I'll tell
you what. But you see in front of my office here,
I got that sign I'm a doctor or a dentist
until I resigned. You better keep having hit records, dude,
because as soon as you stop, you gone, you out

(01:39:28):
of here? And boy, was that right? You don't make
a couple of hit record for a record company? Did
I did? I do? I know? You? You You know, weren't
you that? Uh? And you know when that comes and
you said, like, oh my god, I mean this is right, man.
You know what? You gotta keep doing this, don't you? Oh? Yeah,
you know you don't think about that when you're you know,
when you first meet her, you know what I mean?

(01:39:50):
First meet her, you say like, wow, this is gonna
be and then you said like wait a minute. Anyway,
it was it was again, this is all in the book.
I kind of had, like, you know, a rude awakening
to the reality of the world. You know, people like
Sam and Dave, people like that. At the label, you know,
there's an a k come up and come here. Let
me talk to you. Bro. Don't don't you understand me?
You you you gotta stop smiling. Man, this ain't a

(01:40:12):
game out here. I oh, we always not. Yeah, wake
up and I woke up. Let's go a little bit
deeper than the catalog. Tell us the story and people
gotta be free. O. Well, this story, you know, is
really because of Bobby Kennedy. You know, I was working, uh,
we were working for his campaign. I was very very
involved with you know, I really wanted to you know,

(01:40:36):
we really wanted to change the world in our day.
You know, we we really gave it our best shot.
You know, we we wanted to bring people the exact
opposite of where we are right now with this this
horror that's going on both within the United States and
within Europe and Russia. You know, we didn't want that
we want to stop. Stop all this peace, love, joy, happiness,

(01:40:57):
the Golden Rule. Come on, you know, the messiahy can
come until we all have it together. So let let's
get it together. You know what I'm saying. I mean,
what what is it? We were really, really really into that.
While I was seeing this young lady who was at
the assassination of Bobby Kennedy. She was there in Los Angeles,
and I was, I was, I had a short wave radio,

(01:41:18):
was in Jamaica. I was taking a little hiatus and
and and I heard this, and man, it just two
wow Martin Luther King. Now this man, I've got to
say something. I got to do something. And that's how
people got to be free started. It started as a
kind of like a you know, okay, funding games, funding games.

(01:41:41):
I just want to say something, let's do this. And
it came out of my hands. It came out, you know,
and Atlantic said, no, no, you don't want to do this.
He said, what do you what do you mean? There's
nothing and there's a Golden Rule. It's just very s No, no,
you don't want to get involved in anything. Wexler West
just so oh my god. I mean, he he was

(01:42:02):
something I don't know if you ever had a chance
to meet him or re view him, but he was
quite a man. I mean, those those those early record executives.
There was something else and he would pop the nitro
glycer in the middle of an augument. Shut up, listen
to me. Wait, shut up, you know, because oh boy,
great man, great, great people. So how do you convince

(01:42:22):
him to put it out? We were in charge, man,
We we had we had We had a phenomenal contract
in terms of control. We were the producers. We were
where the buck stopped, you know, and and they couldn't
really overrule us as far as like contractually that's written.
We had free studio time. Think of that. Yeah, we
go in there and camp out, man, and make our product.

(01:42:44):
And uh, you know it was it was. It was wonderland.
It really was, and and and and and then and
then of course you know, like, so we ruin it.
That's a good idea, Yeah, let's ruin it. So ultimately
the hits dry up. Now to what degree is that
because you don't have amuse And what does it feel

(01:43:06):
like when the hits dry up? Well, you know, it's
scary to say the least, you know, because uh, you know,
you turn around and say, well, how come you know
we we won the pennant last year and you know
we're we're in for the fifth place this year. There's
there any reason that we can rectify, you know, and
you try to rectify it, and there's a lot of reasons,
you know, summer internal, summer external. You know, the the

(01:43:29):
the owners of the record company has a lot to
do with what type of priority they're going to give
you a product. You know, Uh, we were the first
wide act on Atlantic. We were the first band on Atlantic.
We were the first challenge George, that's the wrong word,
not challenging. First Uh, inclusive group that had anything to

(01:43:53):
do with the British invasion. We were there first. Okay,
now we got a wreatha Now okay, we got you know,
fill in the blink. Now the priority goes to a
different place. Not only that, but the internal strife that
was happening, It did not preclude them saying we're gonna
put you know, X million dollars into this group because

(01:44:15):
they're really dysfunctional right now. They're they're not they're not
really doing they're not not firing at all cylinders. So
when they take that that. You know, that publicity promotional
uh fund for on of a better word. You know,
a lot of people don't know what used to happen.
I don't know if it still happens. In the record companies,
you have a meeting every Monday and they decide your fate.

(01:44:36):
This record is stopping right now. We're not putting any
more money in it. Well your records going, man, that's it,
You're done. We don't know about that. You know, we think,
you know, the audience likes this, so they buy it. No, No,
that's that's very naive. That's not what's happening out there,
you know, and you know, you know better than everybody
what it's all about. Now. It's just it's a different world.

(01:44:57):
And I have my own theories about that. Started after Woodstock,
you know, when the corporations came in and said, ha,
there's gold in them there hills. And then that did it,
you know, that beautiful event changed. You know. Okay, well
we'll create a group, why not. You know, we don't
have to use God's word. We'll just do our own.
We'll put our you know, famous guys together and get

(01:45:19):
an all star team. Sometimes it doesn't work, but anyway.
So you know, those are part of the transitions that most,
you know, people in our industry have to face. You know,
whether you're a fighter or whether you're entertainer or you're
a musician, you know you're gonna hit a point where, okay,

(01:45:39):
you know, the young guys they probably it's probably this
their their world now, you know, they take it over.
What should I do? Well, that's where your guru comes in,
because when I first met him, I told him a
similar story. All it was about, you know, like they're
producing hit records in a row rather than you know,

(01:46:01):
disappearing from the face of the earth. And and he
said to me these words that you know, He said,
how old are you? And I was in my twenties,
early twenties pair least, you know. And he said, well,
you found out about this way before most people who
find out that. And I'm using my English instead of his,
because he would never use my words. But the whole
thing is a croc. I don't care if you're a

(01:46:23):
lawyer or doctor, you know, you name it. You just
found out earlier. I said, what do you mean? He said, well,
that's the world the world. Come with me, come over here,
joined this team. We don't experience that over here, okay.
So I was ready for it when the ship started
to sink, and when it went down, I was ready

(01:46:44):
for it. So it was the decades ensued the swami
helped you cope or did you say, hey, I I
still have it, I want I got it, I want
my chance, I want to have another hit. Well, you
know that's you can ask some great questions, man, because
you know, when you get involved with it with a guru,
you know, uh, it's it's really a commitment on to

(01:47:05):
two sides, his side and your side. He doesn't just
say yeah, I sign them up, you know what I mean.
They take a commitment on that's very very very very
very very deep. It's eternal. They're kind of responsible for
your karma from that point on. That's a big statement.
And when we on the other side get involved with them,

(01:47:30):
we go into a place that you really never leave
because you know, I pray in Sanskrit and Hindu, I
I know the language. You know, I my whole life.
You know. His style is is to just purify my

(01:47:52):
my mind and my body as much as I can,
you know, and still be part of the world. You know,
and and and so it's it's me. That's what he made.
You know. There there's there's a theory. I don't know
if it's correct in terms of numbers, but every twelve years,
every cell in your body changes, it's reborn, it's regrown.

(01:48:14):
The idea is to be with the Guru for twelve years,
every cell of your body has been infected in with
you know, his grace, whatever you want to call it.
So your whole body is like I'm a yogi. I'm
a yogi, you know, I mean, you know, it's really interesting.
I mean I could go on for hours about it,
but you know this is who I am. So you

(01:48:36):
know he he prepared us, you know, like for example,
like your physical body. You know, I'm close to eight,
you know, and and I learned. You know what, Man,
if you if you take care of your body and
you take care of your mind, I can still sing,
you know, I can still swim, man, I can still walk,
I can still you know, thank you, Because that's what

(01:48:59):
it's about. If do the exercises mentally physically, keep your
you're gonna be okay. But if you don't, chances are
you you know, the genetics are going to take over
your d n A and your RNA and and you're
you're gonna start hurting man and in later life. So
you know, I owe a lot to that that education. Okay,
going back to the mundane mundane from the ethereal, how

(01:49:21):
did you hook up with Laura Nero? And he really like, well, okay,
everybody's familiar with the name David Geffen. Of course, David
Geffen introduced me to her. And what happened basically is,
let's start from the beginning. How did you know David Geff? Well,
David Giff, I knew you were gonna act that that's
so cool. David Geffer was part of an agency called

(01:49:44):
I think it was G A C. And you know,
he invited he wanted to sign the Rascals to his agency.
We were with a different agency with ABC, so he
got to touch with me and he invited me to
his this and that's when I realized that I was
dealing with a business genius, because before I walked out

(01:50:08):
of the room, he had me completely convinced that I
should be we should be with his agency. And then
he left a week later, so I realized, Wow, this
guy just did you switch? I switched but he was gone.
See he was so good. Obviously, you know, you don't

(01:50:29):
get to that state, you know, in the world because
you know somebody you know unless you inherit it. He's
smart guy, man, really smart. But I mean I he said,
how would you like to meet the most difficult person
you've ever met? I said, wow, what do you mean?
He says, well, I managed Laura Nero and she needs
a producer. She really likes your music. Would you be interested?

(01:50:54):
I love to produce? I said, of course, yes, a
little did I know is gonna fall in love from
my head to my toe with one of the most
charming you know in eccentric talented human beings on earth? What? What?
What a gift? That was? So? What was it like

(01:51:15):
working with it? What was she like? She's a bronx girl,
you know what I mean. I mean she would she
would have you know, she would. She would dangle Daniel
a cigarette out of her mouth and if she didn't
like what you said, she'd hit you. She was fantastic,
you know, I mean, I've said it so many times.
I have never met a purer artist in my life.

(01:51:36):
You know, she could care less about sales. She could
care less about publicity. She wanted what she heard, what
she envisioned. I hear it like this, I want to
record it like this. And that's that's really the rub here.
That's the interesting part of this is because you know,
there's certain rules unwritten that you know, the radio stations

(01:51:59):
are not going to play this song if you do this,
don't stop and go, you know, especially in the A M. Days,
and you know, don't change keys like that, don't don't
go like this a mempic, you know. But she did
all that, you know, and you know, Clive and the
people at the labels say what are you doing? You

(01:52:19):
can't do this, and and she just that's what I hear.
So Fifth Dimension, Blood, Sweat and Tears, the Three Dog Night.
They say, okay, we're gonna take out all that, and
we got number one record, you know, and they did.
They had number one after number one with her songs,
because songs were brilliant, absolutely genius. So, you know, I

(01:52:41):
really don't know what else he canna say. But I
never met anybody like that. I never will meet anybody
like that. Were you around when she split from Geffen? Yeah,
what was that like? Well, you know, that's an interesting story.
You know, you know, I mean, you have to be
really careful when you talk about like this. These cult
people like Laura and he In Monkeys, their audience is

(01:53:02):
very sensitive, very sensitive. You can't say anything negative. But
I just I'll preface it by saying like this, if
somebody's gonna screw me and make me a millionaire at
the same time, I may not be too angry. Okay,
that puts a bowl on it. Yes, let's move back

(01:53:23):
to you. So in the time you have left somewhere
between a minute and twenty five years, anything you want
to do, anything you need to do, anything you want
to accomplish. Ah. Yeah, you know I recently, you know
that a symphony with my music that I loved, you know,
I mean that that was fun. And I'd like to

(01:53:44):
crack into that a little more because I had these
fantastic charts done, you know, and uh, you know Frankie Valley,
you know he does them all the time, you know,
And and and the night that I did and I
did it. We have a fantastic symphony here in Nashville.
You know, this is one of the best. You know,
the musicians here really want to be here, you know
what I mean, because they can also work during the
day and do sessions stuff. They make good money here.

(01:54:07):
I gotta fend Anyway, When I did that, Frankie texted
me just before the show and he said, You're never
gonna want to do anything else. Man, I'm paraphrasing, but
this is it. You're gonna You're gonna freak. And it
was just like, oh my god, you know, and all
the emotions running through me. I mean, wow, you know,
this is how I started, you know, with symphonic you know,

(01:54:31):
desires or whatever. Wow, it was fun that that's the
only world I really really would want to crack that
I really haven't been able to crack into as much
as i'd like to now. Frequently, when you know, when
people age, they get a victory lap. Jeff Beck had
a victory lab. Joni Mitchell now has an an ending
victory lap. Noth of these people don't deserve it. Do

(01:54:53):
you feel ripped off that you haven't quite gotten your
victory lap? As an older statement, who's really made their
impact upon the musical world, Well, the victory lap in
terms of uh, you know, like, uh, there's a there's
a lot of different uh you know, stairs to that
you know, basically. One of them is of course financial,

(01:55:14):
you know. Uh. A second of all is like you know,
your name in the world or your your position in
the world. Yeah, you know, but but not not not
like that, you know, I mean, you know, the the
interesting thing is that about Oh god, I'm trying to
sink time now. Around two thousand and eighteen, uh pc,

(01:55:37):
as they say, pre COVID, you know, right right right
back when the world was open. I went to Hawaii,
uh doing one of my fields Cavalery Rascal shows, and
you know, it's interesting. And if I'm taking too long
with these answers, please tell me, because oh no, no,
this is what I want. Absolutely. Rule of wrestles were
immense in Hawaii for a number of reasons. Uh. The

(01:56:00):
simplest way to say is that is that we were
the closest thing they could get to R and B
for a lot of reasons. I don't know if people know,
but you know, in Hawaii there's a lot of reasons,
you know. Uh, we were the closest thing. So these
DJs that were out there, and these people, Tom Moffatt
was his name, and this gentleman named the Beard made

(01:56:21):
us beatles. They adored us and I said, this is great.
Let's help with the rest of the world. Let's just
be famous here, you know, because this is this is nice. Well,
one of the things that we did in those days is, uh,
we were we were invited to go to the other islands,
the Outer Islands. Now, the problem was that in the

(01:56:43):
Outer Islands there were no stages, there were no theaters.
I mean, these people were doing sugarcane and pineapple and
just small little things. So okay, well we're the free concerts.
We're gonna invite all all of the you know, the
the Hawaiians that want to come and the people who
lived there, and uh, we're gonna do it free in
and just set us up in the park. Okay, now

(01:57:03):
we turn the clock back, I mean forward what sixty
years now, people who are now established elderly. Is one
case as followed as a candy factory. It makes that
famous macadamia candy. They come to the show and they said,
when I was sixteen, I'll never forget you guys, and

(01:57:25):
here you are. And I said, yeah, he says, let
me ask you, is there any way you could bring
the guys together one more time, one more time? And
I said, you know what, at some point in life,
you gotta start put the axe and the hatchet and
arrows down. You gotta say, hey, you know what, man,
why not? Why don't we do three or four shows?

(01:57:48):
We do Los Angeles, we do New York, we do Chicago,
and we do MAUI. Oh wow, And then we go home.
You know what is it? Three to five shows? You know,
say goodbye to our friends, say goodbye to our fans.
So I go back home. I called up, you know,

(01:58:10):
I call a Bobby, my manager. I said, what do
you think? And he said, look, you know, I thought
we weren't allowed to say that word around here? What
word rascals? I said, yeah, well you're you're right here.
We're not allowed to say that word around I understand,
you know, but what do you think? He said, Look,

(01:58:31):
I'll tell you what. Get on the phone, call the guys,
see what happens. Well, I'm still in court because I
called up Eddie. I said, Eddie, what what do you think? Man?
I scared the hell out of him. You know, yeah,
what do you want? Man? I said, well, you know,
what do you think? Do three or four shows? Go

(01:58:51):
out there and just you know, rock and roll or something,
he says, well, I'm sorry, man, I I gotta commitment,
you know, I gotta commitment with Steve Vans, and you
know I can't do it. So you sure y see you.
I remember I called you, and I called Jean Gene. Gene.
He's ready to go. That's one thing I gotta say
about Gene Cornish in those days. I mean, he's unfortunately

(01:59:12):
not too well now. He wanted to work. He adored
the stage. He made a pact with his mom when
she took him to an early concert in Rochester. That's
what I want to do. I want to be up there, man.
And he really wants to be up there. He loves
it's part of his That's that's that's Gene. He exists

(01:59:34):
as no family, no wife, no kids. He's a musician
and he wants to be on and and and and
and Dino. You know again, you know I I just
try to try to put him back into and it
will come on. Let's go to work, man, let's let's
let's why, let's let's do and And that was unfortunate,
that was really unfortunate the way that that turned out,
because it didn't turn out well. You know, Jane said, yes,

(01:59:57):
everybody else said no, and so it's it didn't happen,
you know, and and and you know, I'm really going,
you know, very carefully through the uh tiptoeing through the
tulips here because I had to be careful. But basically,
you know what it is is, come on, man, we're
almost eighty freaking years old. What the hell are we
gonna do? Man, Let's just go out and have some

(02:00:18):
fun and make some money. Oh God forbid, and make
some money. Wow, she's wow. It's very disappointing. I mean,
I'm so disappointed. But these guys that just you know,
they don't realize what they have and what they mean
to people, and how many people really adore the group.
I love it. It's part of their it's part of

(02:00:39):
their youth. Well, you've been able to survive both on
royalties from songwriting and records that are have the other
guys been able to survive all these years? Yes? And no? Yes,
me and Eddie was a writer. The other two guys
not really. You know, they had a tough time. But
you know, you also have to pay attention, you know,

(02:01:01):
more more than ever today. I mean, like I say,
you know, when you get a check don't don't spend
the whole check, you know what I mean when your
advisors tell you, you you know, you can't afford that horse. Uh,
you shouldn't get a rules. You know. If you do it,
you know at the time, you're gonna be very happy,
but not for long because tomorrow is right around the corner,

(02:01:21):
you know. And so that's basically you gotta pay attention.
You know, we ad advisors and you gotta listen to
the advisors. So what are you most proud of at
this point? Oh, just the fact that I'm still doing it,
you know. And you know, I just you know, I
get a chance to seriously be around people like you,
you know, because I remember when we first met, you know,
I did that. Yeah, I just really enjoy what I do,

(02:01:43):
you know, and and and and it's like anything else.
I mean, you do not try to tell my kids
all the time. It's not all you know, flowers and
all that. But you know, you gotta, you gotta, you
gotta deal with it. But if you're doing something that
you really love all your life, there's really not too
much to complain about, you know, I mean, seriously, you
could complained, but nobody listens. Well, one thing. None of

(02:02:03):
us are gonna live forever, but these songs are gonna
live forever, and that's a very cool thing. And certainly
they live forever within me. So Felix taking thanks so
much for taking the time to speak. Well, I knew
it was gonna be fun man, and and and I
really hope you realize how much I'm kind of a
fan because I listened to you and I really enjoyed

(02:02:24):
meeting you way back then and I did again today.
Thank you so much. Well, as I say, I have
a lot more questions. We'll have to do in person sometime,
but you know, I don't want to burn out the
audience completely, but thanks again. This was great. I enjoyed
every moment of it, and thank you. And I just
gotta say before it Abby gets mad at me, Felix
Cavalry Music dot com. That's where the book is, okay, absolutely,

(02:02:47):
And the book comes out one day launch twenty second okay.
So people, especially in today's day, where you can buy
it online or in your store, it's fully available. It's
I'm the audience just have to make that effort. As
I say, it's really a whole tale, not just for
hardcore Rascal's fans, although everybody from our generation really was.

(02:03:08):
So until next time. This is Bob left sex